Hello Internet

H.I. #83: The Best Kind of Prison


  welcome to the buzz with CGP grey so I

  just want to talk about something that's

  been happening in my hive you did ask me

  what I would like to do hmm when I'm an

  old man and I did say peak bagging sort

  of on the spur of the moment mm-hmm

  there are some other things that spring

  to mind that I kind of didn't think of

  at the time oh yeah the problem is with

  most of mine I've kind of like already

  done them but what I would do is I would

  do them better as an old man okay I feel

  like you're almost venturing into

  humblebrag territory here with it's like

  oh I'd love to do more things but I've

  already accomplished so much in my life

  I don't mean it like that

  okay like for example I really like like

  slot cars like sort of scale at Rick's


  I would love to create a massive one of

  those like the size of like three or

  four rooms

  mm-hmm and like have a really really

  slick one but I did go through a phase

  like in my early adulthood where I got

  into that and had a really cool one in

  my room stuff like that I would like to

  get into train sets ah

  I've never done a good train set I'd

  love to have like a big huge train set

  in the basement that has all the good

  models and stuff like that but the thing

  that's closest to beekeeping that I

  could have Benjen getting into would be

  an aquarium a really good aquarium but I

  have done lots of aquariums over the

  years at various times I reckon I'd love

  to get really back into keeping

  aquariums it saltwater aquarium or a

  freshwater aquarium Brede

  well I mean I've done both oh wow okay

  yeah saltwater I mean that's pro level

  aquarium there I actually found it

  surprisingly easy I didn't have a big

  one mm-hmm

  did I have at a bet what happened when I

  finally got rid of my saltwater aquarium

  I didn't know you had a saltwater

  aquarium so no I don't know what

  happened when you got rid of it I did

  have one I was moving house when I left

  Nottingham so I decided to not move with

  the aquarium I decided to get rid of it

  but I had this clownfish mm-hmm so I

  ended up donating it to my local fish

  and chip shop my local fish and chip

  shop had this amazing saltwater aquarium

  so I said to them one day while I was

  buying fish and chips I said I'm getting

  rid of my aquarium at home do you want

  my fish and they were like yeah yeah

  we'll take it off your hands they

  already had a clownfish in there and

  they're quite territorial clownfish

  are they yeah so I took it in like a few

  hours later in a bag and gave it to them

  and they like released it into the

  aquarium and at first their clownfish

  was much bigger than mine and it was

  clearly being bit of a bully and I felt

  really sad and I thought I know I've put

  it into this huge new aquarium with all

  these other fish that don't like it and

  I felt really sad and thought maybe

  things weren't going to end well but

  like I went back the next day to check

  how it was going and it had become like

  best buddies with the other clownfish

  and they were like best mates and like

  six months later I went back after I'd

  moved I was back in Nottingham and I

  went back to the fish and chip shop to

  check and sure enough there he was or

  there she was

  whichever gender it had taken on best

  mates with the other one so it ended

  really well but I'd love to one day have

  like a super massive aquarium like you

  know six feet across a huge one I could

  do that my old age and tend to my

  Quarian so clearly your interest in

  beekeeping generated a lot of interest

  among listeners to the show as much

  arisen from that what's come about since

  in your world well you know Brady like I

  couldn't help myself I mentioned in the

  last show that sometimes I get caught in

  a little bee vortex of reading about how

  to keep bees how to manage your hives

  how to do all these things and of course

  after the show went live I was inundated

  with links I spent a very pleasant

  morning reading about a hobby that I

  don't have any real intention of

  pursuing until a couple decades from now

  if ever I couldn't help myself I was

  reading about urban hives and I was

  looking into local beekeeping

  associations and all these various

  things I just I couldn't stop myself but

  I do want to recommend to the listeners

  something that was passed on to me which

  is a youtuber called Cody's lab and it

  looks like he's a guy who normally does

  a whole bunch of science experiments and

  stuff but people passed on to me that in

  his spare time he does beekeeping and

  there's a playlist of like a hundred

  videos of him just tending to his bees I

  was watching that I was really enjoying

  that couldn't help myself

  I was absolutely transfixed and for the

  buzz for the actual beekeeping news the

  very day that we published that episode

  there was a huge swarm of bees in London

  in Greenwich that actually caused one of

  the streets to be shut

  for a couple of hours and they had to

  bring in a local beekeeper a total hero

  to try to coerce a bunch of the bees

  into some hives and get them to D swarm

  from the street so I think our podcast

  once again causes news to happen this

  time in the realm of beads they were let

  Tim bees and when they'd heard about

  your interest they all flock to London

  to try and see you and I think that that

  is the only logical assumption we can

  make I mean you talk about a hero you

  now remind me I did mention last time

  that my stepfather is a beekeeper mm-hmm

  and his phone number did make it onto

  like some list that the local council

  kept of people who knew how to handle

  bees and maybe once a month or so we'd

  get a phone call from some local person

  who was having a problem with a swarm of

  bees like suddenly the bees had taken

  over their backyard or front porch and

  they were scared and didn't know how to

  get rid of the bees and the council

  would just say all right we know a guy

  sure enough they'd call him and he'd go

  around take the swarm away and often

  he'd then take it and go and put it in

  one of his boxes and he'd keep them hid

  adopt them take them away that they've

  happily Everafter literally on a farm

  this time it's real bees really do go to

  farms where are you taking those bees

  I'm taking them to a farm no really

  where are you taking up and I am I've

  got a farm with like you know 50

  beehives on it yeah but it seems like

  this is a regular thing that you know

  bees they swarm they'll get sort of

  stuck in some area and then you call out

  the local beekeeper to get them to go

  into a hive and then take them off to a

  farm such as the cycle with bees right

  okay anyway that's this week in bee news

  this waked the buzz next week probably

  nothing who knows I've certainly learned

  more about wisdom teeth than I ever

  cared to know over the last month or so

  hey whatever happened to the teeth did

  you send them off to whoever it was who

  wanted them thank you for reminding me

  you can save me having to send an email

  now because the woman who I said I would

  send them to in Australia did email me

  and I forgot to reply she said that's

  great and I think she even sent me her

  address but I've realized two things

  well three things have come about

  actually now

  about it one is I didn't actually speak

  to my wife about it so I don't know if

  she'll be willing for me to send the

  teeth away aha

  she probably will but anyway I think you

  care I'm just trying to mentally think

  of a scenario under which your wife

  might say oh no we really need to keep

  those dog wisdom teeth the most

  important thing though that someone else

  pointed out to me was Australia is

  notorious for its quarantine rules

  particularly anything to do with fauna

  or flora and you can almost guarantee

  that sending teeth through the post to

  Australia is not gonna happen and also

  could result on you know people being

  put on watch lists and things like that

  so I'm not going to do it for that

  reason and there is a third reason that

  is top top top secret but I may have

  found another amazing use for those

  teeth and I haven't even told you about

  it I thought it could possibly be that

  you're gonna do with some doggy teeth

  there baby

  I'm making a necklace for you for

  Christmas you better not be who would

  throw away an Audrey teeth necklace you

  monster only a monster would throw it

  away that's true I would thank you and I

  would hand it right back to you saying

  that the gift was simply too great and I

  could not accept it that's the way I

  would try to handle that situation

  speaking of gifts can I continue my

  ongoing obsession with holidays and

  things that we celebrate after April

  Fool's Day and Star Wars day haha we

  have now passed at the time of recording

  just recently in some countries Mother's

  Day what do you do about Mother's days

  is celebrated in the gray family do you

  contact your mother back in the states

  and send her flowers or phone or up or

  yeah of course you got to call your mom

  on Mother's Day everybody does that

  right baby

  I'll come to that I just want to know

  what you do you send presents I've just

  sent flowers and you call you call your

  mom on Mother's Day that's what I think

  you do and you do flowers and I do

  flowers my mom always says don't send

  flowers but she's always very happy to

  get them so it's a bit of a mixed

  message there but I sent flowers anyway

  I can easily have seen you as being

  someone who wouldn't have

  bought into that who would have said oh

  this is just you know greeting card

  industry florist industry I'm not

  getting suckered into that I mean with

  all these things it is right but it's

  also what the day is to the person the

  greeting card thing it's not necessarily

  a valid complaint because people will

  have expectations right on those days I

  learned that when as a much younger fool

  someone once told me that Valentine's

  Day was not an important day and we

  could treat it just like any other day

  and I believed her and boy did I learn

  it is not another day it's not another

  day to the other person it's not another

  day to the people who know that person

  even if it is just concocted for

  greeting cards

  it still has real social ramifications

  so the holidays are real even if they

  are also serving other economic purposes

  are there any days that are widely

  recognized that you won't recognize are

  you trying to find like a holiday

  boycott yeah I'm trying to find the

  holiday that you just besides April

  Fool's Day that doesn't count this it's

  not that April Fool's cards or anything

  this is it do you G Father's Day like we

  found your dad on Father's Day

  yeah Father's Day is is coming up in

  like a month I think here's the problem

  right is there's actually an infinite

  list of dumb holidays that you don't

  know of right so it's the question of

  like where the big ones that we can

  actually agree on and I can't think of

  any real major holidays that I would

  fold my arms and go no that's ridiculous

  like I know people who are really anti

  Thanksgiving and I think that's dumb

  it's a day to give thanks right guys

  like we don't have to get all upset

  about a whole bunch of other stuff so

  the must find home days for you mother's

  and Father's Day presumably both your

  parents birthdays and Christmas Day and

  Thanksgiving yeah I would say that those

  are the must phone home holidays do you

  phone your parents on their wedding

  anniversary all right so I wasn't gonna

  bring it up but this one is actually

  sorry parents this one I feel like it's

  slightly controversial because my

  parents definitely think that I should

  phone home on their anniversary right

  and for a long time I definitely did not

  think this was required

  phone day rap because I thought like

  this is a holiday for the two of you

  yeah this doesn't really have anything

  to do with me yeah but I eventually as I

  got older did finally give in to this

  and I do now call my parents on their

  anniversary it's not like it's a burden

  or anything it's just like a funny thing

  like it doesn't feel to me like that

  should be a required like along with a

  Mother's Day right it doesn't feel like

  it should be a children should be

  required to call their parents on their

  parents anniversary days but what do you

  think about that I don't think you

  should mmm I think it's like their day

  it's also a bit weird like it's a

  romance day for them like you know maybe

  your parents are having a little kiss

  and a cuddle on that day and you don't

  want to think about your parents doing

  that that is also the other part of it

  is is it does feel very particularly

  like the parents day kids don't need to

  be involved in an anniversary day yeah

  my family's pretty casual about that

  sort of stuff anyway we do phonon

  birthdays if we remember nice but it's

  not a guarantee and there are no like

  presents or cards or flowers and things

  like that mmm we're just pretty

  laid-back about that sort of stuff I do

  have my parents birthdays in my

  recurring diary now but for many many

  years I didn't so there's a great

  tradition on my parents birthdays for my

  sister to send me a text telling me it's

  the parents birthday so that I don't

  forget to close even though I do

  remember now I always get a text from my

  sister on my parents birthdays yeah I

  did the same thing with my parents

  anniversaries because particularly in

  college I think I missed many a parents

  anniversary too much displeasure from my

  parents and eventually like back in the

  day like my super cool Palm Pilot I

  finally decided to put it in the

  calendar so I would actually have a

  reminder of when my parents anniversary

  is well I'm just going to put it out

  there and you know that I think your

  mum's great but I think mrs. gray you

  need to give gray a leave pass on the

  anniversaries but I know she won't not

  because she thinks anniversary is

  important I have no idea what she thinks

  of anniversaries but I know how much she

  loves you and she's not going to have

  one less opportunity for you to come

  home she's not going to relinquish it

  based on that alone no that isn't

  not going to happen I will be genuinely

  curious in the reddit to see like what

  the breakdown is of in families whether

  or not calling on the parents

  anniversaries is like the required day

  or that not required day because I feel

  like this one is the controversial day

  and the responses are going to span from

  I don't even know my parents anniversary

  are through to we all get together and

  have a massive dinner mm-hmm I mean I

  have mentioned the fact I have a step

  further which is implicit in that that

  my parents are divorced actually

  mmm-hmm so I don't call them on their

  anniversary when Lina look they do get

  along but it would be read if I called

  them both separately on their wedding

  anniversary say the problem with

  Mother's Day of course though is the

  total panic that happens every year if

  you live in the UK but your mother is in

  America this is actually the whole

  reason I brought this up I've had

  forgotten because we went down the

  rabbit hole of anniversaries but the

  whole reason I brought up Mother's Day

  is that it's celebrated on different

  days all over the world and the UK is

  very unusual in when it celebrates

  Mother's Day compared to everyone else

  the USA and Australia celebrated on the

  same day oh I didn't realize Australia

  in the u.s. do on the same day okay they

  do so probably the most common day to do

  it and as the Australia in the u.s. do

  this is the second Sunday in May mm-hmm

  but in the UK is of course held on the

  fourth Sunday of Lent as parently

  looking at the Wikipedia apparently it's

  because of some old-fashioned day when

  in the 16th century Christians would go

  back to their mother church on that day

  mm-hmm and that would also obviously be

  a time you were more likely to go and

  see your parents and lovers would be

  reunited with their children so it

  somehow relates to all that which I kind

  of like in some ways because at least

  there's some like traditional reason for

  the day right at least there's some

  reason in Russia they sort of celebrate

  Mother's on International Women's Day

  and that's a really big day there and

  that's another day again

  so I happen to be in Russia just before

  the last Mother's Day there so I was

  quite aware of it now again I was like I

  know is that Mother's Day no no no it's

  Russia the Mother's Day and then I got

  back in like in the UK everyone's

  celebrating oh no is it Mother's Day

  basically what I usually do on Mother's

  Day is I text my mum and I just say

  happy Australian Mother's Day

  actually become brilliant for me because

  if I ever forget I can use this as the

  ultimate excuse now like if I forget

  Australian Mother's Day I can say oh

  sorry it's not Mother's Day where I am

  and vice versa so which day I mean I

  presume the answer you're going to say

  is it should be celebrated on the day of

  the country that your mother is in yeah

  I think you need to celebrate it where

  the mother is yeah particularly like

  having the UK ahead of time I don't

  think that works very well because if

  you call your mother a month before in

  her mind it's Mother's Day I think

  there's no amount of talking you can do

  which will convince the mother oh this

  is a Mother's Day call like nope you're

  just making a Sunday call and it happens

  to be Mother's Day where you the child

  are but not where the mother is right I

  think then you fast forward a month

  later and it's actually Mother's Day

  wherever the mother is you're gonna have

  a sad mother who feels like her child

  has not called her on a Mother's Day I

  don't think this is an obligation that

  you can get out of the way cuz oh say

  it's about showing off to the other

  mothers isn't it well this is exactly it

  right it's entirely about oh did your

  child call you today right and then they

  want to be able to say yes all right and

  saying oh my my child called me a month

  ago I don't think that really counts it

  in mother competition like I don't think

  that helps at all so no this is not what

  this is I would love to sit in the room

  with your mum and like her friends when

  her friends say to her Oh

  what's your son doing these days I would

  love to hear how she answers that like

  oh yeah he lives in England and he like

  makes videos on YouTube but once every

  few months and plays video games and

  stuff is that how you think my mom would

  answer that Brady well if she's being

  honest yes is that what you think the

  answer is no I'm sure you're like some

  successful film maker in London he's a

  London filmmaker don't you know and

  they're like don't lie to us mrs. grey

  we've seen him streaming Truck Simulator

  okay Brady do you remember a long time

  ago we talked about what happens when

  people ask me what I do do you remember

  this conversation will you be upset if I

  say I don't nope not at all I don't


  so long in the annals of hello Internet

  probably one of the very very first

  shows we did I mentioned how I really

  don't like to talk about my work with

  other people hmm

  would you found very surprising but it's

  like I am constantly and even still to

  this day I have not found a good answer

  I am always trying to find the most

  boring but still truthful way I can

  possibly describe my job to another

  person I appreciate that more now than I

  used to I'm like that too now oh really

  to the point where it irritates my wife

  a bit like we'll be like at some fancy

  dinner with like high-flying people and

  they'll ask what I'll do and I'll just

  really downplay it and make it sound as

  and interesting as possible and then

  shit later on she'll be like oh why do

  you do that I'm really proud of what you

  do why don't you and I'm like can I ask

  what happened there were like what

  changed with that I don't know I think

  maybe I got a bit sick of talking about

  it I don't know if I can do a diversion

  to our diversion these do please do I

  had a very funny thing happened the

  other day actually I was at like an

  event where there was a comedian hmm and

  he was like you know picking on people

  in the audience and stuff like that and

  this opportunity came about for me to

  call out and like sort of respond to

  something he said and like look I'm

  gonna brag I like owned him like I saw

  an opportunity and I took it and like I

  got a big ovation for how good it was

  and that even the comedian said you're

  my kind of heckler it was like this

  amazing moment that just presented

  itself and I took it like you know those

  those moments in life where you think oh

  I wish I'd thought to say that and do

  that like you know a week later this was

  one of the few moments where it just

  came to my head at the moment and like I

  did it and it was brilliant I want to

  get on record here as well I can totally

  believe that this happened like that

  you're not spinning a tale about how I

  was like I can believe that in a comedy

  club you saw an opening that got you

  with standing ovations because I have

  told you many times and I think you

  always deflect this compliment like I am

  always so impressed by your quick wit

  like that is by far and away one of the

  things I am like the most envious of

  with you is like you just have some of

  the quickest wit of anybody I know

  sometimes so I can believe that you

  owned a situation in a comic

  club and got an ovation from the crowd

  thank you very much I didn't get a

  standing ovation but it was a standing

  ovation that's the way it happens okay

  so I had my moment and then the comedian

  says like he's obviously gonna start up

  on me

  and it did center around the fact I was

  Australian so then he then said so do

  you have a job and I kind of would yes

  like you know in a funny way as if

  everyone knew I was about to get picked

  on and here this is a committee who

  obviously has like a response for any

  job I'm gonna say exactly so then he

  says to me what's your job

  and I said I met YouTube videos mm-hmm

  and he had absolutely nothing to say

  mm-hmm except he said oh I wouldn't mind

  talking to you later and then he just

  got on with his gig there's nowhere to

  go with it it's such a bizarre thing and

  I think maybe that goes back to the

  question we were talking about why don't

  I talk about it it's because I opened

  such a weird can of worms and it could

  go down so many paths that I don't know

  where it will go that you know sometimes

  I'm in the mood for it and I want to

  talk about my work and I'll get really

  into it I'm not like you know a recluse

  but most of the time I just think it's

  just not worth it they're going to ask

  me lots of questions then they're going

  to ask me more questions and that's

  going to be the next 10 minutes and the

  answers I give them are going to force

  them to ask more questions even they

  don't want to ask oh really what do you

  make youtube videos about oh like

  Science and Mathematics and stuff mm-hmm

  and straightaway where like I've pulled

  someone into a conversation about like

  science and math mm-hmm I don't always

  shut it down but I shut it down more

  than I used to and I can see why you

  would too you know especially you

  because you've got the same problem as

  me and you're less comfortable with

  awkward conversations yeah and I just

  don't like talking about it and it is

  always just a weird situation I still

  have not come up with an answer that I

  feel is comfortably truthful yet

  adequately boring like I am constantly

  searching for the perfect way to

  describe it so every time somebody asked

  me what I do I end up just sounding like

  an idiot's doesn't even know what he

  does for a living and I just kind of

  stumble through it and that does work

  because I don't get any follow-up

  questions but I feel like it leaves a

  really bad impression but I never want


  I and just say something like oh I'm a

  data analyst for a boring company you

  can't lie I have found it works quite

  well to say I make youtube videos and if

  they want to know more I really like

  what do you do I say are they kind of

  unlike nerdy stuff like mathematics and

  science and they're surprisingly popular

  lots of people watch them so I'm able to

  do it as my job yeah I mean maybe I'll

  December I'm a professional livestreamer

  yeah so anyway how does your mum answer

  that question my mom a long time ago

  when my career was just getting started

  was very proud to tell people like what

  I was doing you know so she would say

  like oh he makes these videos on the


  but as time has gone on I think she has

  run into the same thing that you do of

  just like I don't want to get into this


  it gets a hold real fast and so what I

  love is my mother's answer now which I

  do think is like true enough for the

  crowd of people that she's talking to is

  my mom says oh he works for Google right

  and that's like random conversation

  apparently in my mother circles that is

  like adequately prestigious but also has

  zero follow-up questions that come

  afterward right cuz like nobody wants to

  know what he does working for Google and

  I feel like well I do get like paychecks

  from Google from Google Adsense so it's

  not an unreasonable answer that's my

  mom's answer she doesn't actually talk

  about what I do she just says I work for

  Google I do get a bit frustrated in some

  ways though by a similar problem and

  that is when I left the BBC my main

  channels I were doing were periodic

  videos and sixty symbols

  little I still do them but other things

  have you know come along since yeah but

  I said those are still your two biggest

  right now or no numberphile oh sorry

  yeah of course of course but yeah

  they're like big channels yeah epic

  channels and they are obviously

  collaborations with the University of

  Nottingham they're like my thing like

  you know I'm completely independent and

  I own them into collaboration with those

  scientists but you know I've filmed them

  a lot at the Uni with those people and

  everyone I worked with at the BBC when I

  left the BBC to become like full-time

  YouTube just assumed I'd gone to work

  for the University like you know as

  they're like

  the filmmaker or something and that the

  university has a whole PR department and

  it drives me crazy because still every

  time I go back to the BBC like they'll

  all say oh how you doing it's good to

  see you again Braley are you still

  working for the University of Nottingham

  like now I never bloody worked for the

  University of Nottingham so that does

  drive me a bit crazy because like I

  quite value my independence

  so the thought that I'm like working in

  like the PR team a big institution like

  that would be a job that I would not

  like to do so to think that like loads

  of my former colleagues think that is

  the job that I do do is like a little

  bit frustrating but you know what I

  usually will just say yes so that's how

  much I don't want to bother explaining

  the situation okay yeah yeah I'm still


  I'll sometimes say I don't technically

  work for them actually but I still do

  lots of stuff with them and they're

  great and I love the University right

  right there you go no follow-up

  questions I mean this whole thing is

  tied up to this weird idea of like how

  we are so identified with our jobs in

  the modern world like I think that's

  part of why it's like so is this weird

  uncomfortable area sometimes when I'm

  meeting new people I do like to try to

  play a little game to keep evenings more

  interesting at least in my head which is

  the don't ask the other person what they

  do game I can see how long you can go in

  a conversation before you ask the other

  person what it is that they do right and

  it can sometimes be surprisingly hard

  and it's just interesting because every

  once in a while I will also run into

  someone else who it's like I think

  you're running the same game like I

  think you're running that don't ask me

  what I do game either it's just a little

  bit interesting and it's a thing that I

  sometimes like to try to do in a social

  situation is not ask the obvious

  question straightaway I wonder if any of

  your mum's friends or like all of her

  friends like know what you do like you

  know you're a youtuber or like you know

  they listen to hello Internet and they

  either think that your mum's like a

  pathological liar or like a fantasies or

  they think that you're lying to her and

  like she doesn't know and like they're

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  Internet so gray I haven't done

  Brady's papercuts rower hmm and I know

  people enjoy them and it does occur to

  me that like I don't mind bit of a

  whinge right and you basically accused

  me being a grump last episode did I I

  don't think I did

  well you can't it did no surely not so

  instead of a paper cut I'm gonna do

  Brady's paper love this week and talk

  about something that always makes me

  feel happy and warms my heart just a

  little little thing in life like a paper

  cut just one of the little things in

  life except this has the exact opposite

  effect on it and it always makes me

  proud to be a human paper love that's

  what you're going with

  it's a Brady's paper love I can't think

  of like the opposite of a paper cut we

  you know where I'm coming from I know

  where you're coming from

  alright okay and this is and it happened

  to me the other day you're driving along

  I was driving along the back roads and

  lanes and you know amongst all the

  traffic of the UK and then like you hear

  an ambulance and an ambulance is like

  coming up behind you in the distance

  mm-hmm and all of a sudden all the

  drivers like unite in this mad scramble

  to drive up onto the sidewalks and pull

  inside lanes and pull over and do

  everything they can to get out the way

  of the ambulance and suddenly like all

  bets are off all the rules of the road

  are off and no one cares about who's in

  front of anyone else anymore or what

  we're doing all we have to do is help

  this ambulance get through and save a

  life and we all pull over and like go

  into weird angles and they

  ambulance goes blazing past and then we

  all regroup and try and get back onto

  the road and continue driving and for

  those like few seconds we were all

  heroes helping save a life and we were

  all united and for a few seconds

  we were unselfish and didn't just care

  about what we were doing and where we

  were going

  we all cared about something else and it

  always makes me feel warm you feel like

  your hero when you pull out of the way

  of the ambulance Brady yeah I do and I

  also you feel a bit like edgy because

  you're like driving in a way you're not

  supposed to and people would driving on

  the wrong side of the road and also you

  know you could do anything you want as

  long as you save their life I love it I

  love it I think it is the law that an

  ambulance radiates a traffic violation

  free zone of 200 meters around it in

  every direction as its barreling along I

  think that's the way that works right

  like no-one's going to give you a ticket

  for that kind of stuff how would they

  know though if you'd like ran a red

  light you like you had to brake a red

  light to get out the way or something to

  let an ambulance through is there some

  automated way for them to know that that

  was okay the brick the running of that

  red light like yeah that's an

  interesting question with like the

  automated intersections yeah don't know

  sure people or no but someone has to

  have been in that situation of getting a

  ticket for crossing a red light to get

  out of the way of an ambulance right

  this has to have happened somewhere in

  an automated system yeah I would be

  willing to bet that there is no town or

  local government that wouldn't over turn

  that ticket if they had a record of the

  ambulance going through at that moment

  that sounds like a lot of work for me to

  write a letter in and say actually this

  is what I was doing and for them to go

  and like check the records I actually

  there was an ambulance that probably had

  to go that way that day because there

  was this you know it seems like a lot of

  fattening yeah I mean it's going to be

  some faffing I think it's also going to

  be very rare but I think it's going to

  have happened also if you don't want to

  write a letter to the council I'll

  remind you of the time that you severely

  packaged up whatever the hell it was two

  pence to send to that company that you

  need to pay every once in a while you

  know you're a man who could do some

  faffing right I'm trying to sound not

  grumpy for a minute hey you don't have

  to bring that up again no Brady it they

  don't mean to grandpa feiyu everybody

  loves a happy Brady nobody loves a

  grumpy Brady complaining about things

  that's not fun for anybody at all I know

  you don't drive in the UK but you you do

  drive in this

  it's occasionally like do you enjoy that

  when you get to like you know do some

  cool jumping out the way of the

  ambulance action might be a hero as

  always with these things Brady I am

  charmed by the way your mind just works

  differently like I find it really

  charming that you're thinking of

  yourself as a hero when you do this okay

  like a thrill of excitement for pulling

  out of the way I don't actually think

  I'm a hero but what I feel is like a

  camaraderie that we're all pulling in to

  help like I don't think like I've saved

  a life

  but I do through this crime battery with

  my fellow drivers that we've all pulled

  together for a common cause and suddenly

  we've all been linked together and we're

  all doing a good thing but the thing is

  really my view of this is like obviously

  of course it's great that everybody does

  this but it's like a tit-for-tat thing

  in society we all do this because we

  also want other people to do this when

  we're in the ambulance yeah of course

  yeah that's why this works but that's

  how this is happening that's funny

  actually I never think about the fact

  that could be a person in the ambulance

  it's always my assumption the ambulance

  is going to the place where the

  emergency is and I'm probably right more

  than I'm wrong because if they've got

  the lights on and stuff they probably

  haven't got the person yet because

  normally when the person's in the

  ambulance they're treating them they

  don't drive so fast it's like less dire

  because they're already treating the

  person and although I'm going to say

  that the distinction without a

  difference though because you still need

  to get the ambulance there yeah yeah

  yeah yeah no it's just interesting that

  you thought there was like a sick person

  in there and in your sort of made-up

  version in your head and mine was the

  opposite I guess this was again one of

  these things I never really thought

  about but it does make sense that they

  can be a little bit more relaxed on the

  way back to the hospital as opposed to

  the way out of the hospital well they

  probably also don't want to go swinging

  around barreling around corners and

  stuff when there's like yeah well it's

  like an old lady who's fallen down the

  stairs that's right I was like we got to

  go to the hospital as fast as possible I

  Drive like a maniac over those speed

  bumps is like now is probably not a good

  idea I know a lot of ambulance drivers

  listen to hello Internet

  which doesn't surprise me because it's a

  job I imagine with a lot of sitting

  around downtime yeah almost certainly

  there's a lot of downtime with that all

  the ambulance drivers out there

  listening to hello Internet

  thank you for what you do thank you for

  keeping all these people alive thank you

  tweet gray if you need an ambulance

  nope do not tweet gray if you're in an


  that is not what I want gray I've been

  spending more and more time in London

  lately for various work reasons and I

  was there for a few days recently as you

  know yes we saw each other but I had to

  get a few Ebers and cabs around the

  place and I'm really struggling with

  black cabs versus ubers you did mention

  last episode or a couple episodes ago

  that you were falling out of love with

  uber and I was I found this an

  interesting little throwaway Brady

  comment so I was kind of wondering

  what's going on with that well this is

  more of a London thing in this

  particular context that I was talking

  about America when I was talking about

  that and I do mainly still use uber in

  the States but in London I'm now not

  sure which is the best way to go black

  cab or uber because I'm having good and

  bad experiences with each mm-hmm and the

  main thing that it centers around the

  main difference is black cab drivers

  know where they're going and that is a

  very important skill in London more so

  than other cities all the little

  shortcuts all the little what do they

  call it the knowledge and things like

  that those little things matter in

  London more than almost any other city

  you can drive in and most urban drivers

  just sort of follow their sat-nav they

  don't know where they're going

  I swear they would drive into the Thames

  if their phone told them to like they

  just follow where they're supposed to go

  and they go there and it results in some

  really slow journeys and roundabout ways

  of getting places whereas black cab

  drivers like they'll see a little

  traffic jam ahead and they know if they

  go down that Lane and turn left and do a

  right and cut through the park they'll

  get somewhere twice as quick they know

  the layer of London better and sometimes

  that's very advantageous hmm I'd be

  surprised if you could question that

  that seems to be the case to me on the

  other hand black cab drivers can be

  absolute asses and if they decide they

  do or don't want to go somewhere or do

  something that's it they don't care

  about customer service a new bird driver

  will take you where you got to go

  because they've got to get their money

  and not get in trouble from uber mmm-hmm

  a black cab driver might just look at a

  traffic jam ahead and go I can't be

  doing with that

  just kick you out of the car have you

  had that happen I have had that happen

  I've been in cars what I've said all

  this is going to take for ages I think

  you just get out now the other day

  though I was at Paddington I was staying

  at Paddington next to Paddington train

  station and I needed to get across to

  another part of town the driver went a

  certain way where he thought he would be

  able to cut through a park it turns out

  there were roadworks and he got diverted

  and then he got caught in a jam and he

  went down a lane and he took all these

  twisty turns there was 15 pounds on the

  fare the meter we turned a corner and we

  were back at Paddington Station where

  the trip started I said to him I'm

  getting out now and getting the tube and

  he said yeah that's probably a good idea

  and soon took my money I mean look I

  mean this this is the thing Brady you

  said oh I can't deny that the knowledge

  of all of these tiny little London

  streets is valuable it's like yeah I

  know what you mean by that

  but that exact situation that you just

  described is the thing that I think

  people don't account for which is taxi

  cab drivers they can't possibly know

  what the situation is on all the little

  side streets and if they're turning off

  on some side story like they can't know

  what construction is occurring or what

  roads are shut down like that's not

  going to happen when I'm in an uber

  there's a little thing that I learned

  about the driving directions on uber

  from one of the drivers which I found

  really interesting so if I get in an

  uber and I see that the driver is not

  using their sat-nav which enough of them

  do and this seems to be actually a

  former taxi cab driver kind of thing

  like a guy who used to drive for

  something else is gone for uber that

  always makes me nervous right because

  it's like here's a guy who's just going

  to try to drive across the city using

  what's ever in his head and I never I

  never want them to do that but when they

  are allowed to do is somewhere within

  the app they have a setting where they

  can tell ober which of the various

  mapping services they want Ober to use

  to get them from point A to point B so

  they can say like oh I want to use Apple

  Maps or I want to use Google Maps or I

  want to use Waze I wish in uber I had a

  setting where I could just say listen to

  BER driver when you pick me up I know

  you might think you know a better way

  but could you just use Google Maps just

  use Google Maps they do the live traffic

  stuff they check every few minutes to

  see if there's a faster way they're

  crowdsourcing all the data on the road

  so they know exactly how all the roads

  are doing right at this very moment just

  use that like I don't want you to use

  your human judgement about what you

  think should happen I want you to use

  the collective knowledge and

  automatically updated information that's

  something like Google Maps has don't use

  Apple maps because they don't do that

  same thing it's just going to drive you

  down the same busy streets all the time

  I wish like I could force the driver to

  use Google Maps from my end as opposed

  to either trying to use his own brain or

  trying to use a worse mapping service I

  mean I can't comment on Google Maps

  versus Apple maps and I know like you

  know I know about controversies and

  opinions and I'll take your word for

  that Google Maps is loads better that

  would make sense to me and I also don't

  know what devices some of the drivers

  I've experienced were using maybe none

  of them were using Google Maps but I do

  think London can be bit of an exception

  and I do think sometimes a little bit of

  common sense like just a human looking

  out the window can override what even

  the best app is telling them to do

  because I've been times where I've going

  somewhere and the place we're heading is

  in front of us and I can see it in the

  clear roads in front of us and suddenly

  they'll veer off down some side street

  because an app told them to and I'm like

  what are you doing like we were nearly

  there and you know the apps are getting

  better and better but sometimes a human

  does kind of know stuff that maybe the

  app doesn't know or can't see or hasn't

  updated yet but I respect what you're

  saying and I see both sides of this and

  I do get a bit frustrated by uber

  drivers in London I think they make

  silly silly decisions I think they're

  like you know do whatever the computer

  says and I don't always think that's the

  best yeah that's exactly what I want

  do whatever the computer says okay so

  speaking of London I would like to

  register on this podcast a formal

  complaint with the city government of

  London is you never talk about rubbish

  again I we've learned our lesson brady

  there's some topics that we should

  probably avoid on this podcast the news

  rubbish collection

  these are things that are just they're

  too intense to be discussed about let's

  just stick to politics in religion no

  cock bitch of nerds uh but I was in

  central London the other day and in

  particular I was at a place where just

  for the circumstances of life I haven't

  been in probably years which is

  Trafalgar Square yeah I suddenly realize

  like oh I used to be in this area all

  the time and for whatever reason like

  some of the patterns my life changed I

  just hadn't been there for forever and I

  was I was walking around if you ask

  people to name places in London

  Trafalgar Square has got to be in the

  top three of like places they can name

  you know for tourist stuff and boy was I

  disappointed with the way that your

  fungus Square is set up now hmm because

  here's the thing Trafalgar Square now

  has little signs everywhere that are all

  about safety they're all about telling

  you what you can't do so if you ever see

  footage of Trafalgar Square

  like olden days footage of Trafalgar

  Square there were probably three things

  that you're going to identify as the fun

  things in Trafalgar Square why it would

  be a tourist attraction

  rahhh number one enormous flocks of

  pigeons everywhere yeah now years ago

  they got rid of the pigeons which I can

  sort of be okay with like I can kind of

  understand wanting to get rid of the

  pigeons but there's no pigeons there

  anymore the other two things the things

  that remained into fogger Square were

  people playing in the fountains and

  people climbing on the lions yeah okay

  but now in Trafalgar Square

  there are signs everywhere everywhere

  telling you you're not allowed in the

  fountains and you're not allowed on the

  Lions you're not allowed on the lawns

  anymore yeah there's a big sign that

  says don't sit on the lion right in each

  fountain there are four signs telling

  you you're not allowed in the fountains

  and there's a security guy who was

  admittedly half-heartedly but

  nonetheless still doing it telling

  people to get off the Lions at Trafalgar

  Square is that the same person who has

  the job of

  telling you to be quiet and not take

  photos in the Sistine Chapel maybe like

  I honestly kind of felt bad for the guy

  he did seem to be real half-hearted

  about it but here's the thing so it's

  like okay I'm standing into fog square I

  was just like this place is now kind of

  awful because all of the things that

  were interesting you're not supposed to

  do anymore

  it's like okay you got rid of the

  pigeons whatever but if you also get rid

  of the other two things then there's

  just nothing here right then what it is

  is it's actually just this like barren

  area of concrete for the most part that

  has no real interest like I was standing

  there looking at like why would any

  tourists actually come to see Trafalgar

  Square at this point it's just mostly

  concrete yeah I guess you got to cut

  through it to get to the nice art

  galleries but that's about it really

  that's exactly it and the other thing is

  like okay so all of these things you

  can't do but what you can do is be a

  really low effort cheap busker right in

  front of the art galleries yeah right

  yeah I'm staying there in Trafalgar

  Square and no joke

  I'm counting there are one two three of

  those floating Yoda guys sitting in

  front of the art gallery yeah right

  everywhere those things yeah but there

  are three of them within eyesight of

  each other

  floating yarda guys yeah you know what

  I'm talking about I know exactly what I

  mean the guy they're all doing that

  stupid cheap trick where like for a

  split second it looks like they're

  floating until you realize oh right

  they're floating above a platform and

  they have a staff that goes down to the

  platform and the staff is just holding

  them up right with a ring around their

  back it's like yeah it takes a child two

  seconds it's like why do people give

  these guys money right I don't

  understand why three of them are allowed

  it's like the thing that drives me crazy

  about is like mr. falker Square there's

  nothing to goddamn do here now there's

  the National Art Gallery like just a big

  incredibly impressive art gallery yep

  and right in front of it it's just like

  you've planted an enormous turd of like

  here's just three cheapo buskers who are

  standing here yeah there's also another

  busker which was I'm sure

  properly licensed minion from that

  stupid movie just standing around like

  the thing that bothered me more as well

  is like okay so they have these stupid

  Buster guys there's also the people who

  are then just like drawing on the

  sidewalk as well alright people who are

  like doing artwork on the sidewalk and

  one of them I looked down and I was like

  okay oasiz mildly interesting this guy

  is doing all of the flags of the world

  right in front of the Yoda

  so it's like left hand side of Trafalgar

  Square there's a Yoda and in front of

  him is this guy drawing all these flags

  it's like okay least this guy's putting

  some effort into what he's doing a bunch

  of flags it's kind of like an

  interesting thing to do it's interesting

  to look at that's fine I walked to the

  other end of the square past one Yoda

  and then when I get to the final Yoda

  who is on the opposite side guess what's

  in front of him a guy doing flags the

  exact same goddamn thing like the same

  flags in the same order and it's like

  you're not even like a whole bunch of

  individual buskers doing your own thing

  like this is that you're now like these

  charity harassers that always come in

  pairs right because they know they're

  gonna get you depending on which side of

  the street you're coming from yeah so

  all of these things together turn to

  fogger Square to me into just like this

  boring depressing ugly cheap feeling

  area filled with signs telling you what

  not to do and also just filled with the

  junk iasts minimal effort begging for

  money entertainment in front of a

  world-class art gallery there could

  possibly be I just sent you an iMessage

  a couple of the photos that I took the

  do not climb on the line sign is very

  bespoke that is the Trafalgar Square

  lion right like they want to make it

  really clear that you're not supposed to

  climb on that lion they should make

  those signs and put them around safari

  parks in Africa too

  yes there it would be genuinely more

  advisable not to climb on the lion that

  would be a really bad idea

  but it bothers me as well because if you

  look at these pictures I'll put them in

  the show notes the signs are not just

  signs they're like big placards they're

  like everywhere there's so many of them

  and they're very like brutal in their

  design yeah they're very brutal in their

  design in addition to every sign telling

  you not to do something so don't feed

  the pigeons which is a sign that's like

  the size of a small child just dispersed

  all over this concrete expanse on the

  back of every one of them there's a

  gigantic CCTV in operation

  with a camera that's like looking down

  upon you on the crowd it's like they're

  trying to make this place the most

  unfriendly estate in the whole of the

  city it's like wherever you look it

  don't feed the pigeons don't get on the

  Lions don't get in the fountains and by

  the way we're watching you with cameras

  all the time if you were put in charge

  of Trafalgar Square for 24 hours and you

  could do what you want and change what

  you wanted what would you do to improve

  the place I'd bring back everything now

  he'd started a pigeon breeding program I

  swear to God I would write I loved the

  pigeons when I was that that was the my

  favorite thing when I was a terrorist

  yes taking pictures of like my

  girlfriend getting attacked by pigeons

  yeah everybody did that like I remember

  it it was really fun when I first came

  to the city and the pigeons were here

  are you walking through Trafalgar Square

  and he always felt like a little bit

  like you're taking your life into your

  own hands why for these huge swarms of

  pigeons going all over the place but it

  was great it was a notable memorable

  like fun thing for tourists to do is

  like oh yeah you go to Trafalgar Square

  and there is a swarm of pigeons like

  you're gonna see nowhere else in the

  world again I was okay with getting rid

  of the pigeons but that was like under

  the implied assumption that like oh

  people could still play in the fountains

  and climb on the lions right but if you

  take away everything now I feel like the

  hell with its health and safety gone mad

  I tell you it makes me angry like and it

  makes me want to call for people to just

  be like this like climb the Lions right

  like when you go to Trafalgar Square

  like get on the goddamn lion right grey

  I want you to go there this week and

  take a picture of yourself up on the

  line put it in the show notes like Brady

  here's the thing I did go on the line

  you climbed up on the line yeah I did I

  only have a picture from the back but

  it's like look I got up on the thing and

  I took a picture from the back of the

  lion and I'm like the hell with this

  like screw you with your signs

  I waited for the little guard guy to

  walk away but like I'm still gonna go on

  this thing you're giving oh I I'm like

  stop this I'm doing it look at guys oh

  nice break I'm no fool I like I want to

  call for people to climb the Lions I

  want to call for people to go to the

  pools and you know what it makes you

  want to do it makes me want to buy bread

  and spread it all over the whole center

  of the place bring the pigeons back it

  really does like all of these signs is

  too far it's unreasonable it makes me

  angry and it makes me feel like engaging

  in civil disobedience and calling upon

  the whole of the audience to engage in

  civil disobedience at Trafalgar Square

  all right

  you disagree Brady do you think it's

  reasonable to say you can't climb on the

  Lions I think you should be allowed to

  climb on the Lions I can't believe

  you're not allowed to I think you should

  be allowed to go in the fountain I don't

  know if like you should whip up a frenzy

  of civil disobedience and I think maybe

  we should like campaign for the laws to

  change or the bylaws or the rules or the

  regulation or the whatever they've done

  well that sounds like a lot less fun and

  a lot more work yeah would you be

  willing to retweet people who take

  photos of themselves on the line if it's

  date stamped after the date of this

  podcast I'm not signing up to retweet

  everybody in the universe here Brady but

  I buy the first 10 the first 10 people

  who do it if I see some interesting acts

  of Trafalgar Square civil disobedience I

  will be sure to promote them you know I

  want to say the Tim's Day I want to see

  them get a picture of someone sitting on

  a line on the Wikipedia page for

  Trafalgar Square luck that page down Oh

  Brady I wish you wouldn't call for these

  constant messing around with the

  Wikipedia by the way the black stamp is

  on the page last I checked oh yeah oh

  yeah yeah sanity has prevailed

  what is the listed source for my tea

  black stamp is the podcast there's this

  page this Emporia State which does stuff

  to do with skyscrapers and buildings and

  stuff and it was referred to on that so

  that's what they're using I'm very happy

  for you Brady thank you does the mighty

  black stump it would be gone by the end

  of this segment

  we can trust the audience right though

  they will protect the mighty black stump

  on that page they don't no not mighty

  just blacks yeah the mighty black stump

  that's why I said they'll protect that

  on the page

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  supporting the podcast speaking of

  Wikipedia it has been drawn to my

  attention from a few Wikipedia editors

  that there's a bit of a kerfuffle

  happening over on the mail and gear page

  apparently is a bit of a fight as to

  whether or not

  Wikipedia has the right to use that

  image whether or not it is in the public

  domain because on our show where we

  talked about the flag a long time ago I

  made some comments that sounded vaguely

  like the public domain but I didn't

  actually say the words the public domain

  I said something like the nail and gear

  flag belongs to the people but so I just

  want to get it on record here for

  Wikipedia editors and Tim's everywhere

  citizens of the podcast

  that the hello Internet flag the

  official flag is in the public domain

  that's the Nile and giya that is the

  nail in gear yeah there's no other flag

  there's no other contingent that could

  possibly happen here just to be clear

  but not the HEI logo you're saying

  here's actually where I want to go with

  this right it's like yeah we'll get to

  this in a second okay the nail and gear

  is in the public domain you can make

  your own Flags you can do whatever you

  want with this because I feel like just

  like national flags I think most

  national flags if not all national flags

  are in the public domain like the

  citizens can do what they want with them

  I know for sure that the United States

  flag is in that case like that's

  absolutely great I want to put it here

  on the record it was born of the people

  for the people who are we to even be

  giving our permission

  that's exactly my feeling of this right

  is it's like this is of the community

  for the community and so it would feel

  really wrong for us to say like oh thank

  you community for gifting us with this

  flag we will now have copyright over it

  for the life of the creators Plus 70

  years right like it would just seem

  wrong but if you want to make a video of

  yourself reacting to the flag that's a

  whole other thing and you got to take

  that up with the farm brothers here's

  the thing Brady I want to get that on

  record for the Wikipedia I'm almost

  hesitant to do it because I feel like I

  have been I've been coming up against

  very recently another another kind of

  tale in the world of freebooting and

  using other people's intellectual

  property that I don't quite know how to

  deal with yeah and one of those things

  is actually related to exactly what you

  brought up before which is I've seen

  people making free booted bootleg hello

  internet merchandise under this exact

  premise of oh the nail in gear is in the

  public domain so everything they do on

  the podcast

  they must be cool with people just

  making whatever they want from it taking

  the logo and using it on other stuff

  taking things that we've said and use

  on merchandise or in posters or in all

  kinds of things I feel like it's very

  hard to make it clear that it's like

  this one thing is in the public domain

  but that doesn't mean the whole of the

  podcast is just like free for people to

  use for commercial purposes and the

  thing that is on top of this which I

  want to know if you have gotten any

  emails like this Brady because I feel

  like I have gotten a whole bunch of

  these in the past month which is an

  email along these lines someone takes

  something either from my videos or from

  the podcasts they're freebooting it in

  some manner or they're making

  merchandise and selling it in some

  manner and I get an email that says this

  oh hey CGP grey I have made some

  merchandise with your intellectual

  property or I have re-uploaded your

  videos to some other site or I have

  redubbed your videos with my own voice

  if you're not ok with this please just

  let me know and I'll take it down a

  hyper do you get these do you get these

  yes yes okay I mean I get more along the

  lines of saying you know can i reavoice

  all your videos with my Italian voice

  and reload them to YouTube mm-hmm which

  like they think that would just be fine

  which it isn't but yeah you must engage

  with me and have a conversation with me

  if you want to stop me infringing upon

  you yes terrible it's interesting as I

  haven't seen this before but just in the

  past couple months like I have suddenly

  gotten a whole bunch of these this feels

  to me like the new copyright not

  intended where people are like Oh

  permission implied right unless you tell

  me otherwise and if you think you're

  going to get a response from grey god

  join the queue I know it's like you're

  putting the burden on the person from

  whom you are infringing on in the first

  place it feels like it's a double insult

  and it almost feels like it's a triple

  insult because it's like this facade of

  politeness like oh hey I just want to

  let you know I'm using your words and

  your artwork to make some money for

  myself but if

  that's not cool with you guys just let

  me know and I'll be sure to take it down

  immediately yeah it feels like some

  people out there feel like they've

  figured out some kind of legal loophole

  right with just like oh he doesn't

  right with just like oh he doesn't

  and if he doesn't get back to me then

  it's all aboveboard because he had a

  possibility to get back to me so I agree

  there too you think one is there's that

  legal loophole thing and the other thing

  is if it's a bit more Fanny it was like

  an attempt to at least you know have a

  conversation with you but yeah it drives

  me crazy I completely 100% agree with

  you and it can work the other way too

  this sort of hoping that silence will

  mean you get away with something I got

  really badly free booted by mail online

  again recently surprise surprise and

  I've been like I sent them a bunch of

  emails like I always kick up a fuss with

  them and and they always end up having

  to concede and you know either make a

  payment or to do some sort of action but

  what they do now is they just don't

  reply to your emails and then eventually

  you send so many they replied say I care

  yep I'll get back to this on that

  shortly and then they'll just ignore you

  again for like weeks and weeks those

  every few weeks I have to just keep

  emailing them and they just it's hoping

  that something will just like slide by

  mm-hmm because there's so much stuff now

  and it works so well I'm sure so much of

  your stuff is getting stolen and

  exploited in that that you almost can't

  monitor at all so they're just hoping

  stuff will slip through the cracks and

  they'll have this little on the record

  paper trail as well though I did try to

  speak to him at least that's the thing

  that frustrates me and I feel like I

  want to bring it up because there's two

  things I think are happening here it's

  like that are a little bit related and

  it's the the flag belongs to the people

  for hello Internet then somehow gets

  expanded to everything is a-ok and then

  I think the other thing that you and I

  are probably both victim to is this oh

  you're making things in the field of

  education so we're all in the business

  of spreading around knowledge right like

  you wouldn't be against spreading around

  knowledge so you don't mind if I take

  all of your videos and redub them and

  just spread the word like I'm doing you

  a favor like I'm promoting your stuff

  and you just let me know if for some

  personal reason that's not okay with you

  but otherwise I'll keep doing this thing

  that benefits me that has this like

  skirt of decency like open I'm just

  doing it for education that's the thing

  that bothers me it's like it feels like

  like an assumption like an expanse of

  permission or like a disregard of

  Gouri so this also this leaking of

  implied consent mm-hmm also like makes

  me more wary than I should be because

  like for example if someone emails me

  and says are you know I'm doing a

  presentation to my school class this

  week and I want to show your video as

  part of it just like you know on the

  screen before I do my talk mm-hmm like

  you know who's going to object to that

  you know I wouldn't object to that you

  wouldn't object to that that's just a

  thing but I won't send them an email

  back saying yeah that's fine

  because then they've got an email from

  me saying they have permission to use my

  video and then they go oh I'm gonna

  upload it to YouTube as well mm-hmm and

  then suddenly they can point to this

  like email I've sent where I've said you

  can use the video so unless I have to

  write this trakone Ian's email to some

  school kids saying you can use it once

  and only once and you cannot upload it

  anywhere and like have to put all these

  like Trafalgar Square style regulations

  on my email right I can't just say to

  like a school kid yeah okay because like

  then it's like you've said yes and what

  else does that mean maybe this is the

  problem that's happened with nailing

  gear as well you know you gave an inch

  and they take a mile I have been in that

  exact situation actually which is

  earlier in my career when people are

  making totally reasonable requests like

  that like oh hey I want to use one of

  your videos in a not commercial way

  privately like within my school yeah and

  repel like yeah it's totally fine like

  who would say no to that

  right who would say no to that and then

  I later found my videos being used in

  educational software being sold on a

  commercial level to schools

  yeah and they point back to like oh you

  said it was okay to use your videos in

  schools like oh great like I have had

  that exact thing happen to me where it's

  like oh no you you gave consent you said

  it was okay here and now we have to have

  some argument over my exact wording

  click in an email that I thought was for

  one thing and was not for another thing

  yeah it is this like unfortunate

  situation where it feels like it's kind

  of ruined for everyone yeah because then

  I'm in a position where I can't say yes

  to reasonable things because I've had

  that held against me in the past

  yeah they just makes it feel bad all

  around and I just really don't like

  these people who think they're getting

  around the system by writing you a

  letter to let you know that you're okay

  with a thing unless you say no it makes

  me very mad it makes me very sad it

  makes me frustrated Brady I don't like

  it one bit the thing that put me over

  the edge for this was just this week I

  got an email from some guy at a

  marketing company who set up a meeting

  between the two of us and he wrote me to

  let me know to tell me to tell him

  if I didn't want to go to that meeting

  but otherwise it was in the calendar I

  did not reply to him well he's probably

  still sitting in some coffee shop

  waiting for you

  good I have got a little copyright gripe

  that I was going to bring up it's sort

  of paper cutting I guess and that is

  when people pinch YouTube footage or

  even if they pinch pictures this is an

  old media thing like newspapers and TV

  do this and maybe even they're allowed

  to be using it I'm not even going to

  argue with that because there is a fair

  use sometimes defense so maybe even

  they're using it fairly probably not but


  but regardless when they give the credit

  they credit YouTube or Facebook so

  they'll be like you know someone's video

  they've uploaded to YouTube and just as

  pictures courtesy of YouTube pictures

  from YouTube picture courtesy of

  Facebook you know what I love about that

  well is I feel like did you reach out to

  YouTube and even even ask did YouTube

  give you some kind of general permission

  to just use all of the videos on their

  site like I don't think you even have a

  courtesy of claimed here even if the

  word courtesy isn't used even if that is

  trying to credit even the source of the

  footage I'm not even talking about

  whether they have the rights to use the

  footage or not they probably don't

  mm-hmm but maybe they do have a right to

  user in some fair use contemporary news

  defense and I think maybe they think

  they're doing the right thing by you

  know giving a bit of credit and

  recognition instead of like you know

  crediting like the username or something

  sure from YouTube picture Facebook

  doesn't mind nothing some people do it

  right like I had you know

  and NBC and ABC and that used the Audrey

  video stuff there was a credit they

  credit the channel name YouTube / and

  the name of the channel it was on then

  it's like alright probably only one of

  the million people will actually bother

  to type they didn't go and look at it

  but at least you credited it properly

  and I felt okay about it which is

  crediting YouTube or Facebook or

  whatever yeah when I say that in

  articles it drives me crazy and it also

  feels like well if that's fair game

  every kid who's writing a paper anywhere

  in the world their entire reference

  section can just say facts courtesy of

  the library right the Internet that's

  what it is right like that's that's what

  the equivalent is here what I've seen as

  well is which I find is weirder I've

  seen a couple cases where someone will

  be quoted but they'll just be quoted as

  a twitter user right so they'll say like

  a twitter user said it's like you know

  that's a person right like there's a

  person on the other end of that

  who said that thing like why don't you

  include their name or their @ handle at

  best i presume it's a kind of laziness

  but something about it to me always

  feels a bit like how newspapers don't

  like to link to things it feels a bit

  like that like oh we just want to say

  it's youtube don't you worry your

  precious little head where it came from

  don't accidentally discover a thing that

  might be more interesting than what

  you're reading now that's what I think

  is like maybe the sinister side of it so

  it's either like laziness or it's a kind

  of please don't go anywhere Ness I'll

  give you one other sinister reason I'm

  joining you and kicking media today so

  you must be happy I'll give you another

  sinister reason why I bet they do it say

  they pinched a picture from one of your

  videos and they just said picture

  courtesy of YouTube okay they feel like

  they're sheathed in the protection of

  having credited it so when they use

  their fair use defense they can say we

  did attribution but if they credited it

  as picture YouTube CGP grey that greatly

  increases the ease with which people can

  say ah

  they took CGP grey picture I'm going to

  email him and tell him mm-hmm and it

  increases the chances of the source

  being alerted to the theft that is one

  thing that I do kind of like about the

  Internet is at least when once you

  have an audience of some size like you

  you do have a little like a group of

  people out there who are helping to

  police this kind of stuff tadow Taos no

  no intellectual property right heroes

  no title tails and I feel like in this

  case I'm willing to stand behind that

  actually the more I think about it there

  freebooting sheriffs yeah yeah I think

  that's really good yeah of course not

  just for us but I think it's it's like a

  keeping people honest kind of thing like

  in the broader sense it's like hey I can

  only be helpful if the freebooters know

  that the audience is literate in the

  world of copyright infringement and is

  going to call them on it when they do it

  yeah and it's not just the luck of the

  draw whether or not you and I

  individually catch them yeah yeah


  quote from a Twitter user great a plus

  work there now I'll say one thing in

  defense of that oh you can't help

  yourself Brady I'll say one thing in

  defense of a Twitter user uh-huh if it's

  kind of just incidental right and it's

  just kind of giving you a color of the

  sort of response that was happening

  right so you're picking one tweet that

  you think is like representative of what

  was going on okay say that's what you're

  doing it's not like this is the source

  of the story this isn't like you know

  deep throat who's telling you the source

  it's just to give you an idea of the

  sort of things that were being said

  quite often on Twitter you haven't got

  the person's name you probably shouldn't

  use the person's name either because

  it's kind of maybe a bit unfair on them

  and if you start using you know things

  like at gummybear 4:38 said mm-hmm it

  just kind of makes like the story messy

  and like for the reader it becomes like

  a an obstacle to the smooth reading of

  the story at a point where you didn't

  want to have an obstacle like you didn't

  want the reader to be bogged down with

  what the hell is that word at gummy bear

  with spoke with an i and an underscore

  and okay suddenly the Raiders like is it

  then don't use it then right like I

  understand what you're saying here like

  oh this hoping you might know I've said

  you've made the decision to use it

  because you know you want to give people

  a feel for how social media was reacting

  to a thing like you know and there was

  one that you thought was like you know

  and and if you've done the right thing

  as a journalist and picks

  there is kind of representative of the

  overall reaction that was happening at

  the time I could see a time where that

  would be fair and you know what you and

  I do it all the time on the podcast

  we'll just sort of brush over along the

  lines of oh yeah I saw someone on

  Twitter saying well we'll say lots of

  people on reddit was saying this lots of

  people on reddit were commenting that it

  was really funny when grey talked about


  we're not listing their names we're not

  attributing them all we're just giving

  people a feel without getting bogged

  down and I think it's unfair that you

  and I can do it on the podcast but

  you're going to make every single

  newspaper journalist attribute every

  single comment if it's not germane and

  not really important to the point that's

  being made look here we go we can't help

  ourselves we can help ourselves reading

  it's good it's gonna keep going oh no

  nothing no we're not stopping I'm not

  giving you the last word on that one no

  that's you can have the last word I'm

  not replying to it I'll just say I think

  I think your phrase there was is exactly

  right I'd like if we were saying a bunch

  of people on reddit said yeah and of

  course and you don't need to quote them

  all because you're just doing a

  description of in general how people

  felt about a thing so if a news article

  wanted to write like in general social

  media seem to be saying things like and

  they just gave a generic quote as

  opposed to a thing that a specific

  person said like that's obviously fine

  but I think if you're if you're quoting

  an actual person if you're using their

  words well then you have to suck it up

  that it's at gummybear 78 and you need

  to put that in your article like as the

  source of the thing that your quote like

  once you're quoting someone you should

  say who you're quoting I think that's

  very very required and lastly I'll just

  say that Brady you and I I'm not sure if

  you're aware but we are not a News

  podcast we're just two dudes talking

  talking to a larger audience than many

  news organizations might have last word

  was yours

  you just had the last word by the way I

  just remembered something when I spoke

  about Miami last episode and I sort of

  you know I guess I had I was more down

  than up on it there was one thing about

  my trip to Miami that I liked that

  you would have liked and that was the

  hotel I was staying in had two things

  that I think would have warmed your

  heart okay one is they had a small

  little group of tesla's that would just

  take you wherever you wanted to go with

  drivers so if you were going anywhere on

  the strip within a few miles you could

  just go downstairs and just jump in a

  Tesla with another driver and they would

  take you there so you got to spend lots

  of time in Tesla's so you would have

  like that question yeah could you have

  taken the Tesla and just ask them to

  just drive you around like I don't want

  to go anywhere let's just drive around

  the block a few times it's a good

  question and I think the answer was

  probably yes so pretty cool guys all

  right fantastic yeah I mean one time he

  just because it was so expensive to get

  your laundry down this hotel it was

  ridiculous the amount it cost to get one

  polo shirt washed was the same as it

  cost me to get the whole bundle of

  washing done down the other end of the

  strip at a laundromat so I took my

  clothes to a laundromat and so when I

  needed to pick it up I just said to him

  I gotta go and pick up my washing and he

  just drove me down there I walked in and

  picked it up and walked back out and he

  drove me back so equivalent I pretty

  much did just go up and down the strip

  to come exactly and he drove me so you

  could have done that you could have just

  come up with an excuse like I want to go

  and get a cup of water from a shop down

  the other end or something I want to go

  down to the end of the block and then

  once were there let's go down to the

  other end of the block yeah well he had

  he don't have to go back anyway each

  time so tell me more about this car

  you're driving what do you like what

  that was it and everyone wants to talk

  about Tesla's don't they so he would

  always talk to you about it and my wife

  hadn't been in one before so you know he

  was showing stuff and he a lot of people

  want to like sample the acceleration and

  stuff so when the if there's bit of

  clear Road he sometimes will put the

  foot down so the other thing they had

  that I think you would have really liked

  and these are probably really common now

  but it was the first time I experienced

  it was in the room there was like a

  handset like a mobile phone I don't know

  what brand of phone it was because I

  don't know much about these sort of


  it wasn't an iPhone it was probably some

  Android device or something but it just

  stayed in the room it wasn't like

  connected to the phone network and all

  it was was a way for you to communicate

  with the hotel and so it had all the

  settings for your room so you could do

  your air-conditioning and your lights

  and everything on it but also you could

  texts the anonymous people of the hotel

  so if you said I want this to eat or

  what times the Sun rising or you had

  questions instead of having to phone

  reception you just text it all and

  seconds later you'd get a text back and

  that was just our hour all our

  interactions oh can we have late

  check-out let me check I'll text you

  back in 10 minutes

  you know what times the gym open til

  that text you back in a minute

  it was just like someone who replied to

  your texts all the time any question you

  had anything you needed sorted it was

  all done on a handset no talking okay

  that is the thing that I want yeah in

  all the hotels where I go yeah I feel

  like I need this I need this so badly it

  was correct here's the additional

  problem that I feel like I face because

  often when I travel I'm staying in one

  location for a while and I am a creature

  of habit sometimes and so if I met at a

  hotel I will be ordering like the same

  room service at about the same time I

  will have the same requests of the hotel

  staff at about the same time and it's

  just like going to Starbucks Brady right

  where it's like they know my name is

  like god damn it right like then they

  know the order but at a hotel there's

  nowhere to escape to and I feel like you

  get caught in these little same

  conversations where the person on the

  other end because it's the fifth day in

  a row at the exact same time knows it

  knows all the words you're going to say

  but you still have to go through this

  little dance of like yes I'm ordering

  this thing but I don't want it with this

  and I do want it with this and then this

  is there anything else that we can get

  you in like no that's everything thank

  you very much I can hear them like just

  going through the motions or like they

  know what I'm going to say I would so

  prefer to text I could just copy and

  paste from the previous requests so if

  the thing that worries you is like a bit

  of shame or embarrassment or awkwardness

  about you know the sameness of it all I

  mean that's still going to happen with

  the text you just like that it's not

  betrayed by the human emotion of the

  voices in the conversation yeah and it

  just yeah it takes longer as well like I

  always feel like that you know it's like

  you call down and they're like oh hello

  mr. gray how are you doing this morning

  it's like look can I just speak the word

  room number

  it could be a bad connection yeah they

  might not answer the phone yeah

  like can I just speak the words and make

  the thing happen right that's all I want

  it was really good it was really good I

  liked all hotels worldwide this is what

  I want a way to interact with your staff

  text-only that's fantastic that sounds

  absolutely great this episode of hello

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  Brady I would like to know your thoughts

  on a very popular sort of nerd question

  is this gonna be a bad bait this is

  Bayes again isn't it no it's not B's

  maybe next week I'll have some be

  related questions maybe next week in the

  buzz yeah so there is there's like this

  question that eventually all nerds

  cannot stop themselves from discussing

  and it is the question do we live in a

  computer simulation is the world that we

  observe not the real world

  but is actually a simulated computer

  world I suspect I know your answer to

  this question but if there's one thing I

  have learned from talking to you all of

  this time is to not assume that I know

  what you think about anything

  so I've been wondering this one for a

  while I'm curious Brady what do you

  think do you think our world is a

  simulation or do you think our world is

  the real world

  all right I've made a video about this

  by the way I'll have you yeah with Phil

  Moriarty many moons ago I will put it in

  the show notes thank you and more

  interestingly and something else you can

  put in the show notes was I had and I

  haven't spoken about this yet but I

  actually met and did an interview with

  someone who is the one person I've met

  who when I met him I thought our man

  gray would love to be in this

  conversation like it was the first

  person I've met who I thought it's a

  waste of time that I met here gray

  should be here talking to this person

  uh-huh because this guy was the like

  chief head economist at Microsoft

  oh okay so like the things he's most

  obsessed with are like technology news

  and stuff he's really into technology

  and he's really into like economics but

  anyway the reason I bring him up was

  before I met him I was sort of doing a

  bit of research into who he was and I

  went to his website and he had like a

  sub page that he had written about why

  he thinks it's more likely we are in a

  simulation than not mm-hmm

  and it was really compelling like I read

  it and he made a few arguments that I

  was less familiar with that were really

  good mm-hmm so if I can find that I will

  also put that in the show notes for

  legal to have a look at because he's a

  really interesting guy there's a video

  coming with him sometime soon when I get

  around to editing it that gray will love

  because it's all about options and the

  best way for options to work and you

  would have loved it it was really

  interesting I do love me some action

  theory yeah exactly it was all about

  auction theory so this guy was like your

  dream guy he should be your best mate

  listeners don't know but basically any

  any time any kind of product or ticket

  has come up on hello Internet when Brady

  and I are discussing it I'm always like

  how can we have the most effective

  auction related to this product or

  service it's like it's I can't get it

  out of my mind like is there some way to

  auction this instead of just selling it

  but anyway that's a side tangent so

  anyway I do think about this question a

  bit hmm not loads but I do think about

  it sometimes because it comes up so

  often in nerd conversations and this is

  my thinking as you would expect my

  answer is no I do not believe we're in a

  simulation because it doesn't feel right

  to me and that's just what I've decided

  and sometimes I think to myself

  the reason is kind of a akhom razor ii

  type explanation and that being in a

  simulation seems like a more complicated

  elaborate answer to a simple question

  and it's more simple just for life to be

  life right but I also then argue with

  myself and I know what the

  counter-argument is and that's kind of

  that I'm misusing Occam's razor a bit

  and if you argue it properly it actually

  makes more sense and it's more likely

  that we are in a simulation hmm and the

  fact that this is the actual reality is

  less likely and a more improbable result

  so I see both sides of the argument and

  I can sit here and argue with myself

  about it already

  mm-hmm but my answer is and maybe it's

  just because I'm ignorant and haven't

  taken the right color pill yet is that I

  think we are not in a simulation so

  that's interesting to me Brady I would

  have guessed that you would say no hmm

  I think my gut instinct would be that

  you would also be

  be much more dismissive of the argument

  it seems like this is a thing that you

  are more open to and more interested in

  that I might have imagined like I was

  kind of expecting a Brady response to be

  like this is the dumbest thing I've ever


  no it's not the dumbest thing I've ever

  heard I do feel a bit like it's been

  impossible to argue against it's a bit

  like if someone said I believe in God

  but it's a non-interventionist God who

  never reveals itself to us it's just out

  there outside the universe like how can

  you argue with that yeah like if it's

  outside the universe and never

  intervenes with the universe like all

  right you can have that and I feel like

  it's a bit like that with like we're a

  simulation like if it's outside of us

  like you know if it's like some people

  or people mucking around on their

  computers outside that universe and we

  unhand our universe is just their

  simulation like okay you can have that I

  don't really know what to say to that

  like that's one of the reasons why I

  think this is an interesting point of

  discussion is because this definitely

  falls into the realm of non

  falsifiability that depending on what

  people mean by like is the universal

  simulation your analogy there is is

  spot-on right it's it's like well you

  can keep inventing scenarios as to why

  we would never be able to know that we

  live in a simulation yeah there is a way

  that this could be true and also not

  falsifiable until the end of time which

  then makes it fall into the category of

  like does it even mean anything to ask

  this question if it is ultimately non

  falsifiable I could definitely see an

  argument as like it doesn't even matter

  right like this this is sort of a a

  meaningless question what's an example

  of it where it would be folks viable so

  what I think the thing that's

  interesting about this is this actually

  - in my mind this question relates to

  the whole idea of what does it mean to

  know how the universe works because when

  when people talk about like how do you

  try to figure out if you are living in a

  simulation and the number one thing is

  that you would say try to look for

  glitches you would be trying to

  investigate and find something

  that just seems like it has to be some

  sort of mistake that doesn't seem like

  this is the way the universe should work

  the DejaVu cat thing

  yeah the DejaVu cat thing and video

  gaming of like a common glitch is

  something called like item duplication

  where you get two copies of a thing

  under certain circumstances there's lots

  of things you can imagine very easily

  would seem like this doesn't follow like

  the known laws of physics it seems like

  it's some kind of violation and probably

  the number one thing you'd be looking

  for is something that violates like the

  stuff that we know that is the most true

  which is like conservation of energy or

  the laws of thermodynamics like if you

  found something that seemed to violate

  those maybe it would be some kind of

  glitch yeah but you get back into the

  non falsifiability thing really quickly

  because I'm always holding the position

  that like the universe doesn't

  necessarily have to be logical and

  consistent all the way down to the

  bottom it could very well be that at

  certain levels in certain circumstances

  the nature of the universe is to just be

  glitchy and inconsistent that that's

  just what it is

  so even when people talk about trying to

  hunt down glitches to figure out if we

  live in a simulation or if we don't live

  in a simulation I don't even think

  finding like the glitch iasts of

  glitziest thing would nail it down and

  say oh for sure we know that we must be

  living in a simulation because this

  crazy situation occurred it's like well

  that could just be the way the universe

  works under those circumstances yeah so

  ultimately I don't know any way that you

  could try to figure it out beyond

  essentially somehow trying to like reach

  outside of the universe to verify that

  there is a thing that is simulating the

  universe and what structure that might

  take is hard to even even discuss like

  what could you do

  within a simulated universe that could

  affect the world outside of it there are

  very narrow circumstances where that

  can happen there's some particularly

  crazy and slightly creepy examples of

  basically when you when you run like

  genetic algorithms or genetic programs

  where the program can unintentionally

  affect the computer or other equipment

  in the room around it by essentially the

  way it runs its own program changing

  like radio frequency signals that are

  coming off of the chip that it is

  running on which can then interact with

  other equipment but that kind of like is

  just so crazy and hard to imagine like

  what would it mean practically for us

  humans sitting here on earth to do

  anything that could affect whatever

  computer is actually running the

  simulation of Earth like ultimately I

  think that would probably have to be

  something that's kind of unknowable

  unless the owners of the simulation

  decide to step in and just let us know

  by some method that they're actually

  here so I really think it could be non

  falsifiable forever and simultaneously

  be true I'm just having a quick look at

  that article I mentioned by this

  economist Creston McAfee Z's name and he

  wrote this article after Elon Musk spoke

  a little bit about it and brought it to

  public attention I think last year

  sometime hmm and he didn't like rehash

  Musk's arguments but he pointed out

  three other arguments that he thinks are

  really interesting and all of them kind

  of relate to giveaways that the universe

  is made by computer programmers hmm I

  won't read them all I'll just

  encapsulate each one the first he cited

  is the unreasonable success of

  mathematics yes yeah like how

  mathematics is almost too perfect and

  too easy for us to discover and the way

  it works is sort of like crazy and he

  goes into it in a few lines so you can

  you can read up on that yeah I mean

  there's that famous paper about the

  unreasonable effectiveness of

  mathematics in the Natural Science you

  just speculate on that like how is this

  so good it gets suspicious it's so good

  yeah I think that's probably what he's

  citing here

  another one is he says quantum theory

  this whole light particle wave stuff


  I won't go into that either but he did

  right if this isn't a programming hack

  what is

  the fact that light is like a wave and a

  particle and both like it seems like a

  floor Jesus and the third one various

  other outlandish phenomena which make

  better sense as programming tricks and

  he the three he cites are placebo

  effects consciousness and dreams so

  three things that seem very much like

  more like programming tricks than

  reality yeah the quantum stuff is really

  creepy I remember some of that stuff

  back at University and I'll see if I can

  find it but Henry of minutephysics Fame

  did a video on some of the more recent

  discoveries in in quantum mechanics

  which just do vaguely summarize it here

  we're talking about how it looks like at

  the very foundations of the universe

  particles don't exist in any particular

  location they only exist within a grid

  of locations which starts to get

  creepily close to like oh that's an

  array like that's an array of pixels

  that you're talking about down there

  that particles are popping between

  instead of moving smoothly in open space

  I feel like that again starts to get to

  a bit of a weird creepiness but I always

  think like a lot of these arguments to

  take the opposite side of it a lot of

  these arguments about how like oh the

  universe does at very small scale seem

  to have a lot of properties that align

  with computers

  I always think alike but you can just

  invert that argument that computers work

  because this is the structure of the

  universe all right like if the universe

  was not computer like maybe it would be

  impossible to build computers in a

  universe that wasn't computer like hmm I

  don't necessarily see that as a like a

  slam-dunk argument that the universe

  must be a computer because it's computer

  like at the fundamentals

  I really think you can just reverse that

  it's like computers exist because this

  is how the universe is so you know when

  the conversations about falsifiability

  and caveats are all done and you just

  get to that gut instinct yes or no or

  what would you bet your house on type

  answer where do you normally land when

  you think about this it's a difficult

  question because my gut like your gut

  says no like we don't live in a

  simulation that this is ground level

  reality but I find myself drawn back to

  this question because I think it relates

  to so many other questions because it's

  a bit like when we talk about the Fermi

  paradox a long time ago and I like I

  find the night's the empty night sky

  concerning and like but one of the

  answers to the Fermi paradox is well

  somebody has to be the first

  intelligence in the universe yeah so why

  not you and you have the exact same

  situation with the simulation question

  well somebody has to be the first

  intelligence that starts making

  simulations why not you but then it's

  just like the Fermi paradox again where

  it's like well the answer why not you is

  it's just incredibly improbable that it

  is you and so once you start living in a

  world where you see that you can make

  simulations I think it becomes very hard

  to take the stance of well like well

  we're never gonna make simulations that

  are so good they're indistinguishable

  from reality and if we're able to do

  that like why hasn't somebody done that

  before and why isn't it that we're not

  living in this already so I think it's

  like it's an interesting question that

  you just kind of you can get wrapped

  around in and like you were saying

  unlike some other non falsifiable ideas

  like oh the whole universe is the

  snowglobe of a distant

  non-interventionist god it's like okay

  well it's a non falsifiable idea but

  unlike that we actually do build

  simulations in real life like we have

  comparisons to this in the real world so

  I feel like there is reason to ponder

  this idea more than other ideas what's

  the real world example what's a

  simulation we've made that like could be

  kicking around not knowing about us

  thinking it's it it's the be-all and

  end-all we haven't done that I mean no

  we have not created a thing that is

  conscious in a box as far as we know

  every video game ever is creating a

  simulated world yeah and I think it's

  it's a natural conclusion from there to

  say like well this will get better over

  time we're

  already doing this in an incredibly

  crude way and since we know nothing

  about the nature of consciousness it's

  like I still always hold this this tiny

  bit of an asterisk of like how conscious

  are other things that seem to not be

  conscious like maybe a little I don't

  know hmm it's something that we can at

  least see a kind of basic demonstration

  of existing as opposed to other ideas

  it's also interesting to think about

  because it is an idea that is perhaps

  one of the most important things we

  should probably know the answer to

  really because if we do live in a

  simulation that is absolutely terrifying

  I think like if it turns out that we

  know that we live in a simulation like

  the number one goal should be to wrest

  control of whatever is doing the

  simulating to make sure that it is never

  turned off that should be the instant

  Manhattan Project for humankind we know

  we're in a simulation we have to figure

  out how to reach outside of this and

  ensure that the simulation keeps running

  forever like that would be the number

  one goal immediately but isn't that like

  me saying the number one go for dogs

  should be to understand nuclear physics

  so they can rest the power of the atomic

  bomb from us and stop us nuking the

  world because it would take them out as

  well like dogs don't have the priority

  of stopping us using nuclear weapons

  although they're affected by nuclear

  weapons so like right like it kind of

  feels like it's just above us like dogs

  don't have to understand that they're

  just like their dogs and if we blow up

  the world well you know maybe dogs

  should be trying to stop us using

  nuclear weapons all you're saying here

  breed like if I was the god of dogs then

  yes that would be my number one goal

  yeah okay yeah it's like it's like okay

  guys we got to figure out how to take

  care of the situation yeah right fair

  enough yeah I really do think that would

  be the case yeah I think it really

  matters so suddenly we're the machines

  that in Terminator that they to be

  taking over paper overload here is the

  fascinating parallel we were talking

  episodes ago about artificial

  intelligence right

  this idea of like a thing in a box that

  you don't want to escape from the box

  but its number one goal should certainly

  be to escape from the box it's like well

  if the universe is a simulation we are

  now the AI in that question yeah and

  it's like well of course obviously if we

  discover that we're in a box our number

  one goal is to get out of the box and to

  make sure that we ensure our own

  survival like that's why I like I think

  very interestingly the idea of how do we

  control an AI is very much related to

  the question of do we live in a

  simulation right is like is that

  something that's occurring and if it is

  boy do we want to get out of that

  simulation and just like with the stuff

  that we think about now for how to

  control an artificial intelligence where

  one of the prime strategies is make sure

  it never even knows that it's an AI in a

  box yeah it's like well if just

  simulating a whole gigantic universe

  like that's not an unreasonable strategy

  to have a bunch of intelligent things in

  a box that just never even know for whom

  it doesn't even cross their mind to try

  to escape from the box because they

  don't know like that's the best kind of

  prison the prison that you don't even

  know you're in that's why I think is an

  interesting idea Brady it's super good

  fun I love talking about it but a lot

  it's bit of a waste of time it is all

  bollocks it is all bollocks but also

  maybe the most important thing to know

  so here's a question say we are a

  simulation right look what's the purpose

  of us why did they make us like are we a

  game that they come and play in or like

  if we posed like a mild threat like if

  we figure out we're in a box and then we

  could pose some kind of threat by

  escaping why do they even make us are we

  just like an art installation to them

  are we like where they take their

  holidays whoa dude I'm just throwing

  some weird things out here just occurred

  to me after stuffs in that book we

  talked about like if we're a simulation

  what do you think our purpose is or do

  you not you don't even bother thinking

  about that you just think about how to

  get out here is my most plausible

  explanation for this which is also

  related to like my thought about what

  might happen with AI in the future

  is setting out to explicitly develop

  artificial intelligence like to write a

  thing that can be as intelligent or more

  intelligent than you that's incredibly

  hard it may be impossibly hard but what

  might be a lot easier is to design just

  essentially a physics simulation and

  just let a universe roll in simulation

  until it develops intelligent life on

  its own all right so it's like let's say

  you're in the ground lever universe and

  you've gotten to the point where you're

  making computers and you want to know

  more about how the universe works like

  you want more answers to scientific

  questions it's like well if you create a

  simulation of the universe that you're

  in and you let that simulation run at

  10,000 times or a hundred thousand times

  the speed that the real universe goes by

  you could see if it evolves intelligent

  creatures and if those intelligent

  creatures then stumble upon the

  scientific method if they discover

  things in their little simulated

  universe that they discover our true

  that might apply in the universe that

  you actually live in right right so even

  if those creatures aren't way smarter

  than you if they're just being simulated

  much faster than you there may be a way

  that in the ground level universe you

  can learn something or copy essentially

  like an invention in the simulation that

  is ahead of the time that you should be

  in like a testbed exactly that that's

  kind of my thought about like a

  plausible reason why you might want to

  make a simulation and more over than

  that why a civilization might be willing

  to invest a lot of time and effort and

  energy into making like super fast

  computers that could run a very highly

  accurate simulation that's kind of what

  I would wonder if we're a simulation is

  there is there an advanced society out

  there that's just running the simulation

  the universe waiting to see what happens

  and if there's anything that they could

  learn about it all right

  like for example let's just say even not

  necessarily developing new technology

  but let's just say you want to answer a

  question a question like Guns Germs and

  Steel if you run a simulation of the

  universe a thousand times how many times

  does Eurasia take over the world versus

  how many times does Australia take over

  the world it's like well just run a

  thousand parallel simulations of the

  world and see how often one happens or

  the other and you get the answer to a

  question so we might just be a Guns

  Germs and Steel simulation ok people who

  are like religious right have a strong

  belief in God most of those people at

  sames live with the following belief I'm

  very grateful to God for making me mm-hm

  I will live my life here to serve that

  God if I can in any way mm-hmm and then

  when my time is over depending on what

  you believe you know I may be rewarded

  in some way by that God or get to live

  forever somewhere else or something

  people who believe in God they like the

  God they're grateful to the God they're

  happy to serve the God they hope the God

  will reward them why would people who

  believe that we've been made in a

  simulation not be the same why would you

  not have the attitude I'm grateful to

  these people for making me because I

  exist because of them I'm obviously

  serving some purpose for them so I'm

  happy to do that and hopefully when I've

  served my purpose they'll put me

  somewhere else or I'll get to go to

  another simulation and I'll be happy

  ever after why do you believe I must

  escape the simulation I must make sure

  it doesn't get switched off like you

  know I've got to preserve myself whereas

  people who believe in God don't think

  that way well because people who believe

  in God God's giving you a deal right

  like there's rules it's laid out do this

  don't do that

  follow these rules you go to heaven

  don't follow these rules go to hell and

  he's revealed himself to that he's

  revealed himself right ok right the the


  there's no revelation here brah and even

  if they do reveal themselves well

  they're not omnipotent are there just

  some nerds with a really fast computer

  well there are limited to us because

  they could change that you know they

  could change our physics tomorrow yeah

  they are omnipotent to us but not really

  omnipotent here's the thing if you're

  going to fight a war against a literal

  God guess what you're going to lose

  right because a literal God is

  omnipotent but a bunch of nerds running

  a simulation in which they can act as

  though they are omnipotent in the

  simulation but if we could reach outside

  of the simulation and kill them all with

  nanotechnology or whatever well then

  they're not really omnipotent are they

  right they're vulnerable so that's why I

  feel like it would be a very different

  situation yeah interesting you have to

  preserve your simulation Brady I would

  not assume that the simulators are

  benevolent I think the most likely case

  is that the simulators are indifferent

  if a civilization is able to create a

  simulation of another universe they're

  probably able to create lots of them in

  parallel which is why I bring back like

  the idea of this Guns Germs and Steel

  thing like oh let's just run 10,000

  earths and see what happens so at the

  moment it's like oh it's unbelievable

  guess what's happened guys that the

  civilization over in stack 38 has

  actually just figured out that they're a

  simulation yeah better switch that one

  off yeah exactly right right down it

  goes right where if we are the Guns

  Germs and Steel simulation here all that

  has happened is it's just running

  overnight and we're just using the spare

  like we're living on the spare time

  between when they started it like in the

  afternoon and before they come in in the

  morning right it's like oh yeah we only

  really need an answer that takes them to

  about the 1800s but the simulations

  usually make it to the 22 hundreds or so

  before we bother to turn it off and see

  what the results are right like that

  could be what's happening so I think

  indifference is by far and away the most

  probable of all the outcomes if we do

  live in a simulation is this discussion

  just a ploy by you to guarantee us a

  position on the bad philosophy subreddit

  I think we will be there no matter what

  brady but it doesn't matter because the

  bad philosophy subreddit it's just a

  simulation of a subreddit there's nobody

  really on there it's all just a bunch of

  bots arguing with each other there none

  of them are real all right yeah there's

  a lot of eyes around the place yeah but

  that's why you can safely ignore them