Cortex 51: Meeting for Lunch


  hello Mike hi gray I feel like last show [TS]

  we really clarified something mm-hmm you [TS]

  know what's about to begin [TS]

  season two of cortex we did our clip [TS]

  show stroke [TS]

  looking back on cortex last time and we [TS]

  talked about a bunch of things and one [TS]

  of them was talking about this idea that [TS]

  we you and I are sort of meeting for [TS]

  lunch and we're discussing our working [TS]

  lives and talking things through and how [TS]

  for both of us this is a beneficial [TS]

  process [TS]

  it's like talking about the thing that [TS]

  you're doing helps you do things better [TS]

  even if you're not explicitly talking [TS]

  about how to make your working life [TS]

  better and this is one of these things [TS]

  like I find I have this kind of [TS]

  conversation with lots of people in my [TS]

  life and I feel like this is a learned [TS]

  kind of skill but it's it's something [TS]

  that almost sounds so banal that people [TS]

  don't recognize it as a skill the little [TS]

  just thinking in the background about [TS]

  how you work and running it over every [TS]

  once in a while and thinking about how [TS]

  things go and there was a there was a [TS]

  particular comment from the reddit that [TS]

  I really liked that I felt like summed [TS]

  this up and also pointed out the learned [TS]

  nature of this skill and it was a [TS]

  comment from logic 42 who said the thing [TS]

  I've learned from cortex is [TS]

  introspection before cortex I just did [TS]

  things I didn't think about the process [TS]

  of getting things done by simply [TS]

  considering the meta problem I began to [TS]

  see ways to improve and I feel like I [TS]

  feel like that's what we're doing here [TS]

  Mike you and I were engaged in the meta [TS]

  process and hopefully we're bringing [TS]

  listeners along with us on this ride [TS]

  and from this comment and the reddit I [TS]

  feel like it is evidenced that we are [TS]

  accomplishing this thing so you [TS]

  mentioned you mention it last time [TS]

  mention at this time the idea of of me [TS]

  and you just basically having our [TS]

  lunches but we've Skype in the middle [TS]

  whoo [TS]

  you know where we just sit down and talk [TS]

  about the way that we work and that has [TS]

  been rattling around in my brain quite a [TS]

  lot and I'm thinking about trying to [TS]

  find ways to incorporate that that kind [TS]

  of process into the show even more than [TS]

  before [TS]

  mm-hm and one of the reasons is not [TS]

  everybody in their lives has this person [TS]

  that they're able to talk to so then we [TS]

  actually help fulfill that for a lot of [TS]

  people I think right like as as is [TS]

  pointed out by logic 42 it's just [TS]

  sometimes you're just hearing these [TS]

  conversations helps people yeah that [TS]

  that's what that's a real that's a real [TS]

  I don't know I don't know how to explain [TS]

  it very well but like I'm not a big [TS]

  believer in like the abstract notion of [TS]

  like like the self-help section of a [TS]

  bookstore right which i think is mostly [TS]

  garbage and fraud are' and you say what [TS]

  you really think [TS]

  luxe tourism right but but I think there [TS]

  is like I have found in my own life [TS]

  there was there was real value to [TS]

  hearing people explaining their thought [TS]

  process about why they do a thing and [TS]

  I'm aware of like when I listen to [TS]

  podcasts that is something I am always [TS]

  really interested in it's like oh I want [TS]

  to hear somebody explain their reasons [TS]

  for doing a thing even if it's like oh [TS]

  you have no interest in doing that thing [TS]

  or you have no interest in that person [TS]

  directly like if there's I think there [TS]

  is benefit to being just like exposed to [TS]

  this person who's just explaining [TS]

  something and I have found that there is [TS]

  advantage in hearing someone just like [TS]

  talk through their working process which [TS]

  then just ends up making me think about [TS]

  the way that I do things and the other [TS]

  for the other thing that I have I have [TS]

  found is is like it is a Taysom what [TS]

  rarer skill then I might have first [TS]

  imagined in the world like it was a [TS]

  thing I was really aware of in [TS]

  I working life that I found a lot of my [TS]

  colleagues just didn't fall into that [TS]

  category of like doing doing that meta [TS]

  problem analysis like thinking about why [TS]

  things happen as opposed to giving an [TS]

  answer like oh we just always do things [TS]

  that's why you're like you're just [TS]

  sticking with the the first way that a [TS]

  thing is being done so that's why I find [TS]

  it useful to talk to somebody else like [TS]

  yourself and I think that it is it is [TS]

  useful to listen to other people doing [TS]

  the same thing even if you're not a part [TS]

  of that conversation because that's [TS]

  something that I have been doing for [TS]

  years myself with podcasts about a year [TS]

  ago I read this article motherboard [TS]

  about professional wrestling podcasts [TS]

  and the idea is that and the headline [TS]

  says it all really podcasts are group [TS]

  therapy sessions for pro wrestling fans [TS]

  with the idea being that most people [TS]

  that like professional wrestling tend [TS]

  not to have somebody else in their life [TS]

  that also likes it right right so [TS]

  professional wrestling podcasts are so [TS]

  popular and they are massively popular [TS]

  because these people don't get to talk [TS]

  to anybody else about it so they get to [TS]

  listen to the podcasts that other people [TS]

  make about this stuff ooh and I expect [TS]

  that there is a kind of weird similarity [TS]

  between those shows on this show and [TS]

  that I don't know how many people that [TS]

  listen to the show really have somebody [TS]

  else in their life that they can talk to [TS]

  about their to do system right all right [TS]

  but if people get that enjoyment out of [TS]

  listening to me and you chat about them [TS]

  we have to think we have this very [TS]

  similar thing with the pen addict as [TS]

  well mm-hmm you know how many people do [TS]

  you know in your life that really love [TS]

  pens like a very very deep level well [TS]

  any and Brad do you know you know it's a [TS]

  similar kind of thing yeah it is that's [TS]

  definitely the case and like I know [TS]

  sometimes when we recording the show I [TS]

  have a real feeling of I know that a [TS]

  much younger version of myself would [TS]

  listen to this show right like I'm aware [TS]

  of that as a thing that I feel like [TS]

  particularly with the boom of podcast [TS]

  like in the last five years [TS]

  I feel like this this was not a thing [TS]

  that was around particularly like when I [TS]

  was a kid was being able to hear people [TS]

  just kind of like talk through a bunch [TS]

  of stuff and I know like that is [TS]

  definitely something I would have [TS]

  listened to when I was younger and and [TS]

  so that's that's like that's what's [TS]

  happening here like we've because I feel [TS]

  like sometimes when people describe like [TS]

  what that what the show is sometimes [TS]

  said like oh it's a Productivity show [TS]

  and even right from the start I've [TS]

  always felt like that that is never it's [TS]

  never quite sat [TS]

  or for what this show is but I've never [TS]

  been able to figure out a better a [TS]

  better way to describe it quickly and [TS]

  and we still may not have a good way to [TS]

  describe the show quickly but I think [TS]

  something about this idea of like this [TS]

  open lunch conversation that is around [TS]

  the topic of our working lives like that [TS]

  that is a more accurate description of [TS]

  what the show is and it's really it's [TS]

  really like gelled something in my mind [TS]

  about what we're doing here and it only [TS]

  took 50 episodes to work it out so [TS]

  that's pretty good yeah like yeah that's [TS]

  the thing like hey listen if you're out [TS]

  there and you're starting a podcast let [TS]

  this be a lesson to you you may go for [TS]

  quite a while before you feel like oh I [TS]

  really know what I'm doing here this [TS]

  episode of cortex is brought to you by [TS]

  our friends over fresh books we spend so [TS]

  much time on this show talking about [TS]

  what it's like to work independently [TS]

  this can be a freelancer where we run [TS]

  your own company it doesn't matter what [TS]

  it is you're going to have people that [TS]

  you need to send invoices to and it's [TS]

  what fresh books does to make your life [TS]

  easier fresh books understand the [TS]

  challenges of people that work [TS]

  independently and also understand now [TS]

  that people work on the Internet [TS]

  the Internet has created opportunities [TS]

  and jobs that could have never existed [TS]

  before and so fresh works have designed [TS]

  their platform to work that way they [TS]

  want to make you productive and [TS]

  organized while also letting you get [TS]

  paid quickly you can jump into fresh [TS]

  books and have an invoice sent out in [TS]

  just 30 seconds you build them all in a [TS]

  great interface and you'll see those [TS]

  invoices exactly how your client will [TS]

  when they arrive in their inbox and when [TS]

  they do you'll be able to track every [TS]

  step you'll be able to see when it's [TS]

  opened you can even see if it's been [TS]

  printed [TS]

  and then you'll see when it gets paid [TS]

  and FreshBooks customers get paid up to [TS]

  four days faster than anybody else [TS]

  because they allow you to set up online [TS]

  payments so so simply I have been using [TS]

  fresh books since we started real AFM we [TS]

  have sent over a thousand invoices of [TS]

  them now and I am happy every single [TS]

  time I do it fresh books makes this job [TS]

  so much easier [TS]

  I really really love and cannot [TS]

  recommend enough their product fresh [TS]

  books is offering a 30-day unrestricted [TS]

  free trial the listeners of this show [TS]

  just go to fresh books calm / cortex and [TS]

  enter cortex into how you heard about a [TS]

  section so they will know that you came [TS]

  to them from this show thank you so much [TS]

  for pressure books for their support of [TS]

  cortex and real AFM why don't we talk [TS]

  about productivity a little bit just the [TS]

  idea of that phrase and what it means [TS]

  mm-hmm [TS]

  because in the same way that people [TS]

  refer to this shows being a Productivity [TS]

  show I think it's it's it was useful for [TS]

  me and you to try and explain what we [TS]

  actually think that term even really [TS]

  means and how it applies to us because [TS]

  productivity I think is very frequently [TS]

  mixed up with the term of being a [TS]

  workaholic mm-hmm and I don't think that [TS]

  that that works very well I've never [TS]

  considered myself a workaholic because I [TS]

  actually don't know if that is being [TS]

  productive [TS]

  you know like the idea of getting in to [TS]

  the office a a.m. and leaving at 7:00 [TS]

  because you're just so busy mmm that [TS]

  never sat with me for me it was always [TS]

  about like how can I get out of here at [TS]

  5:00 and that was the part that was me [TS]

  being productive who's like I need to [TS]

  get out of this office as close to five [TS]

  o'clock as possible how do I get from [TS]

  here at 9:00 a.m. to there at 5:00 that [TS]

  more activity for me yeah that was that [TS]

  was my exact same thing when I was being [TS]

  a teacher what was that like when the [TS]

  when the kids go home I want to be going [TS]

  home in like 20 minutes after that [TS]

  happens [TS]

  sprint and it's like I really I really [TS]

  do like their there are some there are [TS]

  some elements of my personality which [TS]

  obviously like you just you just have [TS]

  like they've just been with me for [TS]

  forever but I think that that part of [TS]

  being in the working world really honed [TS]

  for me like an informed a particular [TS]

  idea of of like how I think about a lot [TS]

  of things related to work it's like what [TS]

  I'm looking for here is maximum [TS]

  effectiveness in minimum amount of time [TS]

  toward a goal and the goal is to go home [TS]

  right as fast as possible yep and yeah [TS]

  like spent so much time thinking about [TS]

  all of these various ways to save [TS]

  seconds on a thing right the like that [TS]

  would add up overall weight well that's [TS]

  this very different question from like [TS]

  raw output I think I don't know if I've [TS]

  mentioned it before but one of my [TS]

  favorite examples of trying to save time [TS]

  was like thinking about the meta thing [TS]

  is my least favorite part of the job was [TS]

  writing reports for the kids which is [TS]

  the whole like long complicated thing [TS]

  and there's there was so many things I [TS]

  did to try to streamline this process [TS]

  but the best bang for the buck ever was [TS]

  I had to sign every one of these [TS]

  profiles for the kids and I thought one [TS]

  day pull anybody notice and or care if [TS]

  when I print them off of the printer I [TS]

  just put my signature directly on there [TS]

  so it's just printed off the pot a [TS]

  template yeah on a template and I played [TS]

  around with it a little bit so that the [TS]

  the signature printing ink looked as [TS]

  real as I could make a signature look by [TS]

  also lightening the whole rest of the [TS]

  document so it looks like I'm signing [TS]

  with a slightly darker pen that it's [TS]

  being printed right it's like yeah you [TS]

  laughs right but it matters because what [TS]

  am I doing here like I'm trying to see [TS]

  if anyone will care about this thing [TS]

  which doesn't make any difference right [TS]

  like is the profile any better if I [TS]

  personally sign it no because I've been [TS]

  working like I'm working on this thing [TS]

  anyway and that what that was the thing [TS]

  I did and his like man I don't know how [TS]

  many hours of time that saved me but the [TS]

  answer was [TS]

  lot where like things would come back [TS]

  like oh you haven't signed this or I [TS]

  don't have to sit down and do it that to [TS]

  me is like a pure example of a [TS]

  Productivity win it's like doesn't [TS]

  affect the output at all and decreases [TS]

  the amount that I have to do to actually [TS]

  get this thing done so when I was [TS]

  managing a bank branch I had to sign [TS]

  probably more things than you write [TS]

  because I'm gonna guess I don't know if [TS]

  you know but basically the but the [TS]

  branch manager basically puts their [TS]

  signature on everything right your a [TS]

  signature machine isn't yet they've [TS]

  actually hired so I changed my signature [TS]

  oh yeah yeah so I just made it this like [TS]

  little squiggle as opposed to anything [TS]

  that would even slightly resemble my [TS]

  name because I was unhappy with the [TS]

  amount of time that it would take for me [TS]

  to sign everything your kids that is [TS]

  productivity right there yeah that is [TS]

  what we think for activity is and you [TS]

  will not be surprised to hear that I did [TS]

  the exact same thing upon becoming a [TS]

  teacher very very quickly realized that [TS]

  writing out GRE why in a legible way is [TS]

  not worth my time septa ball yeah and my [TS]

  signature became a recognizable G with a [TS]

  line that dipped briefly to like vaguely [TS]

  indicate that maybe there's a why here [TS]

  and then continued onward and it's like [TS]

  yep that's it good enough it's [TS]

  identifiable enough when we need to go [TS]

  through the paperwork so we know who [TS]

  signed what but it's like the minimum [TS]

  amount of time I can possibly take is [TS]

  like I'm not Precious about my signature [TS]

  like the hell with you do you have a [TS]

  different signature when you sign [TS]

  autographs uh you might not well answer [TS]

  that question I don't know [TS]

  well the okay so the tricky thing with [TS]

  the autographs is I feel I feel [TS]

  compelled to include my initials when I [TS]

  do the autograph yeah yeah right so it [TS]

  it takes long but the the the gray is [TS]

  very similar to my teacher signature is [TS]

  perhaps a little less stylized because I [TS]

  feel I feel like there's there's there's [TS]

  a moment of there's a moment of [TS]

  importance like when someone has asked [TS]

  you to sign a thing like that's a moment [TS]

  think about a time on that [TS]

  yeah and it's it's it's like a it's also [TS]

  like a strange amount of pressure and so [TS]

  well I just I just pay more attention [TS]

  right where's what I had to sign stuff [TS]

  professionally it's like yeah whatever [TS]

  like you just need an indication the [TS]

  this piece of paper it doesn't need to [TS]

  actually look good because I feel like [TS]

  signing a thing is a slightly different [TS]

  domain area that it has to this look [TS]

  better so me and you talking about work [TS]

  is not necessarily the same as talking [TS]

  about productivity and it's one of the [TS]

  reasons that every now and then we talk [TS]

  about video games because the [TS]

  productivity enables the video games [TS]

  right yeah it's the whole thing it's the [TS]

  whole piece yeah it's it's like just [TS]

  like just like you were saying that you [TS]

  want to get at five I wanted to leave as [TS]

  soon after the children leave as [TS]

  possible it's like the thing the thing [TS]

  that has carried through from that is is [TS]

  this idea that the work is in service of [TS]

  some other goal and my feeling has [TS]

  always been like the goal that I am [TS]

  aiming for is to build a life that I [TS]

  want to live and a life that I want to [TS]

  live is is not the same thing as [TS]

  producing the maximum number of videos [TS]

  that is possible like these things are [TS]

  in these things are in conflict it's [TS]

  like I want to make videos but I feel [TS]

  like all of all of my thoughts around [TS]

  work and gradations and the tools we [TS]

  talked about and everything we've ever [TS]

  done is is a question about effectively [TS]

  making videos in a sustainable way in [TS]

  the long term and and that's not the [TS]

  same thing necessarily as being [TS]

  productive in the way that you talk [TS]

  about like an economy is productive [TS]

  which means like every year the amount [TS]

  of copper forged goes up like that's a [TS]

  that's a very different way I do think [TS]

  it's interesting that people sometimes [TS]

  conflate these things and I feel like [TS]

  it's it's an interesting thing that is [TS]

  sometimes hard hard to can convey is [TS]

  this is this idea of like yes I'm very [TS]

  concerned with the effectiveness of work [TS]

  but that question is not necessarily [TS]

  related to the volume of work when you [TS]

  see me talking about video games [TS]

  you can feel very assured that I have [TS]

  been productive right and I feel like [TS]

  that statement it could be could be [TS]

  written with either our names underneath [TS]

  it because it's like if I am able to do [TS]

  this it means I've taken care of the [TS]

  rest [TS]

  mmm and and it is like that the [TS]

  productivity the idea of getting the [TS]

  work done what that is like it is in [TS]

  service of that [TS]

  mm-hm and it's the that's what year of [TS]

  less was mmm and it's what you know I [TS]

  I'm six months into my year of less and [TS]

  haven't really paid much attention to it [TS]

  I was gonna ask about how that was going [TS]

  but I am again it popped up in my head [TS]

  the other day because I realized that I [TS]

  have a much smaller appetite for being a [TS]

  part of new projects hmm like relay FM [TS]

  can be and is but my involvement my like [TS]

  day-to-day direct involvement ie as a [TS]

  host who that appetite is going down [TS]

  over time so you're talking about your [TS]

  desire to do new shows yes mm-hmm [TS]

  my problem is my appetite for new ideas [TS]

  can never be filled and so I have been [TS]

  paying attention to this and doing a [TS]

  couple of different things one is I'm [TS]

  trying my best to not start new things [TS]

  mm-hmm right they're like things pop up [TS]

  in my head opportunities come my way and [TS]

  I think about them a lot more deeply [TS]

  than I would have in the past like and [TS]

  if something doesn't feel like a [TS]

  complete no-brainer then I I spend more [TS]

  time thinking about it like I have spent [TS]

  too much time in my career over the last [TS]

  seven years of allowing myself to [TS]

  completely taken by a whim Lu and some [TS]

  of those things have turned out to be [TS]

  great and some of them haven't been and [TS]

  I need to do a better job and I am doing [TS]

  a better job of trying to quantify these [TS]

  decisions of a scale that is better than [TS]

  just excitement level mm-hmm [TS]

  because what I am trying to avoid is an [TS]

  inevitable burnout yeah and then a [TS]

  slashing of projects because I enjoy all [TS]

  of my current projects that's why I do [TS]

  them but if I add much more on top of [TS]

  that that's going to be a problem so one [TS]

  of the other things that I've done to [TS]

  prepare myself for this is what I've [TS]

  been speaking about for months is that [TS]

  getting help [TS]

  hmm you know having an assistant now who [TS]

  helps me has been a great way to help [TS]

  with this because what I'm doing is [TS]

  staving off the Burnell with my current [TS]

  project level right that's what I've [TS]

  done I've secured that so all the stuff [TS]

  that I'm currently doing I now feel less [TS]

  pressure than I did maybe three or four [TS]

  months ago about my current workload [TS]

  this is exactly the thing that I was [TS]

  going through last year with year of [TS]

  less right like is is this exact thing a [TS]

  feeling like needing to have more [TS]

  specific reasons to pick up a side [TS]

  project for example right or needing to [TS]

  be able to to take parts of the job and [TS]

  try to hand them to somebody else like [TS]

  in I want to say before about this idea [TS]

  like trying to build a life that you [TS]

  want to live like I find it I find it [TS]

  really effective when thinking about my [TS]

  working life and this has always been [TS]

  the case right from the start is the [TS]

  most effective thing is to try to [TS]

  eliminate or reduce the thing that you [TS]

  dislike as opposed to what is often the [TS]

  more compelling part which is to add a [TS]

  new more exciting thing right and and I [TS]

  and I have found that that that is [TS]

  definitely held true for me that's like [TS]

  time is better invested [TS]

  recognising and eliminating or [TS]

  outsourcing parts of the business that I [TS]

  don't like or that are causing me stress [TS]

  like that that is way better for [TS]

  building a life that I want to live then [TS]

  adding a new thing that I'm super [TS]

  excited about like I think excitement is [TS]

  almost against it's good it's good to [TS]

  have about a project but I think at a [TS]

  certain point when you you have a bunch [TS]

  of things that are successful it can [TS]

  quickly become a kind of I don't know [TS]

  like a red herring that you're always [TS]

  chasing is like excitement alone at a [TS]

  certain point does not become enough to [TS]

  justify working on a thing when you're [TS]

  already working on a whole bunch of [TS]

  things like you have to start thinking [TS]

  about stuff in a in a much more ruthless [TS]

  way I actually have a related I'll score [TS]

  text question so jason wrote in about [TS]

  side projects to say do they get really [TS]

  bored or distracted and find themselves [TS]

  moving on to something new [TS]

  very constantly before finishing current [TS]

  projects leaving behind like a trail of [TS]

  unfinished things mm-hm [TS]

  so Jason asks do you have any tips for [TS]

  getting over the slump that comes after [TS]

  the initial excitement now the reason I [TS]

  find these two things to be connected is [TS]

  in just what you were saying right [TS]

  like that it's way too easy to be [TS]

  attracted by that bright light that new [TS]

  shiny thing and go to it this is [TS]

  something that I have been doing over [TS]

  the last six months or so you wanted one [TS]

  of the things that I've been thinking [TS]

  about with my balance is to find [TS]

  excitement in existing projects so to [TS]

  like manufacture for myself new things [TS]

  to do and to find things within those [TS]

  projects to make exciting to find new [TS]

  experiences or new ways of thinking [TS]

  about something that I'm currently doing [TS]

  or shaking something up like I have been [TS]

  a real proponent of the stuff that I've [TS]

  done in my podcasting career [TS]

  of rebranding shows and repackaging [TS]

  shows if I have gotten tired of a show [TS]

  format to like shake it up give it a new [TS]

  name give it a new coat of paint and [TS]

  give myself the ability to kind of jump [TS]

  in and reboot it before it gets to say [TS]

  me for me mm-hmm [TS]

  so like I have in the past like I used [TS]

  to do this interview show every week [TS]

  right I think it had four different [TS]

  names over it's like three or four year [TS]

  career because it was like a way for me [TS]

  to give something a kickstart again and [TS]

  to kind of push forward right and and so [TS]

  I it's really difficult to find these [TS]

  things but it's just something that I've [TS]

  been trying to pay more and more [TS]

  attention to to like take the projects [TS]

  that work really well and add new stuff [TS]

  to it as a way to try and keep me [TS]

  interested in and invested yeah when we [TS]

  related to the the other part of the [TS]

  question about you know how do you how [TS]

  do you not have a graveyard of on [TS]

  unfinished things as I well we all have [TS]

  graveyards of unfinished things like I [TS]

  have I have a graveyard of unfinished [TS]

  things the vast Josie's bigger than most [TS]

  right vast vast Arlington Cemetery of [TS]

  unfinished things it's it's enormous but [TS]

  but one of the things I measure is [TS]

  thinking about you know changes that I [TS]

  made last year about being more ruthless [TS]

  with the kind of projects that I take on [TS]

  and what I feel really good about is in [TS]

  the last you know since starting the [TS]

  year of less I have gotten way better at [TS]

  what ends up in that graveyard like I [TS]

  feel better about those projects as [TS]

  opposed to taking on a bunch of stuff [TS]

  that's even if it worked out would have [TS]

  just continued to add to my workflow so [TS]

  I think one of the biggest things that [TS]

  has made it made a huge difference for [TS]

  me is is like thinking about new [TS]

  projects they have they have to be in [TS]

  the category of things that can be [TS]

  completed so that they are finished at a [TS]

  particular date [TS]

  things that can be handed off largely to [TS]

  some but somebody else or things that [TS]

  add an extremely minimal amount of work [TS]

  for a very good payoff and it's like [TS]

  when I look at my graveyard of [TS]

  unfinished things those projects are [TS]

  much more in in that domain than they [TS]

  are like oh let me start up a whole [TS]

  brand new thing which would give me a [TS]

  whole brand new job to do if it turns [TS]

  out to be successful so there is a way [TS]

  to think about the quality of the things [TS]

  going into the graveyard not just the [TS]

  number of tombstones that are there it's [TS]

  like what is buried matters as opposed [TS]

  to just the fact that a thing was buried [TS]

  happened I think it's crazy to try to [TS]

  avoid to avoid that like and there's [TS]

  also there's also the side effect of [TS]

  like you just don't know where things [TS]

  are going to go sometimes and thinking [TS]

  about my my current year right here of [TS]

  redirection like I am really happy with [TS]

  a bunch of the decisions that I have [TS]

  made about how to how to run my business [TS]

  this year have directly led to having a [TS]

  bunch of free time to be able to noodle [TS]

  around with projects that may or may not [TS]

  turn into anything but I feel like I [TS]

  have a better ability to dedicate a [TS]

  bunch of time to a thing that seems [TS]

  interesting even if I'm not exactly sure [TS]

  where it's going to go and and to just [TS]

  evaluate it a little bit before thinking [TS]

  about it really seriously so it's it's [TS]

  it's a it's a hard it's a hard thing to [TS]

  to answer but I do think the graveyard [TS]

  of unfinished things is is important to [TS]

  keep growing you just need to be mindful [TS]

  about how it is growing like what kinds [TS]

  of things are going in there like are [TS]

  things going in there that like let's be [TS]

  honest you were never really going to do [TS]

  are like oh like that that Mandarin [TS]

  course right you got Rosetta Mandarin [TS]

  and you were going to learn that like [TS]

  was that really going to happen probably [TS]

  not like that doesn't seem like a good [TS]

  project so how much value you extracting [TS]

  from live streaming your truck [TS]

  because you know you talk about minimal [TS]

  work I know you spent a significant [TS]

  amount of time attempting to [TS]

  troubleshoot that thing okay okay all [TS]

  right is it I think I think this is [TS]

  actually mean right no no you're not [TS]

  being me you're not be mean I think this [TS]

  is this is a great example because like [TS]

  let me take a moment to explain [TS]

  something that is probably not obvious [TS]

  to the people who are watching the [TS]

  streaming so the streaming that has been [TS]

  happening in the last couple of weeks is [TS]

  totally 100% an example of me changing [TS]

  things to have more free time to be able [TS]

  to dump a bunch of time in a very narrow [TS]

  window into a single project which is [TS]

  like I'm gonna figure out how to stream [TS]

  right which turned out to be more of a [TS]

  technical challenge tonight than I [TS]

  expected it would be right but the whole [TS]

  way this started is like I can actually [TS]

  point I can actually point to the exact [TS]

  video which is Hank green of vlog [TS]

  brothers and VidCon and crash course and [TS]

  a million things very productive ma'am [TS]

  yeah he's like the Richard Branson of [TS]

  the Internet's he just can't stop [TS]

  creating new things Hank did have a [TS]

  video on his on his personal Channel [TS]

  Hanks channel where he was just going [TS]

  through some of the statistics for the [TS]

  YouTube channels that he runs they were [TS]

  just like talking talking through this [TS]

  and I thought like oh this is this is [TS]

  exactly the kind of thing I'm really [TS]

  interested in to see a little bit of the [TS]

  data behind somebody else's business and [TS]

  I went to go watch it and the thing that [TS]

  kicked off my whole streaming was [TS]

  watching him in the very first few [TS]

  minutes just simply setting up what he [TS]

  was going to do was a live stream [TS]

  because he didn't pre record that video [TS]

  he was just going to go through it live [TS]

  and like take questions from people in [TS]

  the comments and talk about some stuff [TS]

  and as dumb as this ask is like okay so [TS]

  I am a person who is not watch streams [TS]

  I'm not really into streaming I feel [TS]

  like I never really got it but I was [TS]

  watching him do the pre setup and [TS]

  something about that suddenly clicked [TS]

  where I could see before the show [TS]

  was quote ready he was obviously using [TS]

  some kind of software to arrange all the [TS]

  windows just the way he wanted to put a [TS]

  little overlay on it so that it looked [TS]

  nice and it's the simplest thing in the [TS]

  world but it was a thing that suddenly [TS]

  clicked in my head of like ah okay I had [TS]

  somehow always thought that streaming [TS]

  was simply recording the computer screen [TS]

  as you're looking at it which always [TS]

  seemed like a huge hassle from my [TS]

  perspective but seeing that like oh [TS]

  there's a tool to set this up what I [TS]

  found about that was like I I don't know [TS]

  when I don't know where I don't know how [TS]

  but something about this feels like a [TS]

  skill that I should add to my repertoire [TS]

  of things that I can do on the Internet [TS]

  and this is like I feel like my whole [TS]

  career is based on trusting some [TS]

  instincts in my brain like recognizing a [TS]

  certain kind of interest and and this [TS]

  was definitely one of those things of [TS]

  realizing like I don't know where when [TS]

  this might be useful but I think it [TS]

  would be good to know how to stream so [TS]

  that if I ever want to do it I don't [TS]

  have to at that moment invest several [TS]

  days in messing around with the software [TS]

  and figuring out how to make everything [TS]

  look right and getting it all done and [TS]

  so the truck streaming project wall is [TS]

  partly just fun and interesting to try [TS]

  to do the truck streaming one of the [TS]

  main purposes of that project is I want [TS]

  to have another tool in my tool belt I [TS]

  don't necessarily have a purpose for it [TS]

  now but I have a gut feeling that maybe [TS]

  at some point I will want to know how to [TS]

  do this and and be able to do it [TS]

  immediately and I'm like I'm investing [TS]

  that time now this is so funny to me why [TS]

  because what you had watching Hank is [TS]

  what I have watching you so when I saw [TS]

  you doing it I'm realized like you were [TS]

  talking about the tools that you were [TS]

  using mm-hmm [TS]

  I then realized oh this isn't what I [TS]

  thought it was right I could do that [TS]

  look that's how [TS]

  Arius I cut that's so funny cuz like I [TS]

  it's been in my head I can't get out of [TS]

  my head like I keep I keep looking at [TS]

  these like streaming boxes and stuff [TS]

  and I just want to show everybody how I [TS]

  play Zelda right but this is this is a [TS]

  perfect example of you know last year [TS]

  gray wouldn't really have had the time [TS]

  to guilt free just do this at like and I [TS]

  know I'm always mentioning side projects [TS]

  like there's a bunch of stuff that [TS]

  people just don't see like this is two [TS]

  of the things I'm working on which like [TS]

  people just don't see but this is an [TS]

  example of a thing that people can see [TS]

  but I just don't think it's I think a [TS]

  lot of people watching it aren't aware [TS]

  of like what is what is it that I'm [TS]

  doing here and and this is what I'm [TS]

  doing I'm intentionally trying to add a [TS]

  skill to the list of things that I can [TS]

  do on the Internet okay and as as a [TS]

  self-employed person who like cobbles [TS]

  together a bunch of skills to to make it [TS]

  work together in a productive way like [TS]

  this just seems to me like a skill that [TS]

  I should definitely have ready to go [TS]

  even if I'm not using it intensely at [TS]

  any particular moment I think anybody [TS]

  that is self employed should or does [TS]

  have this about them especially if you [TS]

  work in a creative space because at any [TS]

  point the thing that you do could go [TS]

  away yeah and having a vast skill set [TS]

  which you can apply to other things is [TS]

  very important it is the reason that I [TS]

  started making YouTube videos yeah but [TS]

  yeah that's it that's exactly that's a [TS]

  great comparison right as you just you [TS]

  want to be aware of other things and the [TS]

  other thing as well as like aside from [TS]

  just trying to figure out technically [TS]

  how to do a thing there was a real part [TS]

  of my brain which just felt like I don't [TS]

  understand streaming on the Internet as [TS]

  in I don't really understand why people [TS]

  watch streams I don't understand really [TS]

  what's going on on the streams it's just [TS]

  is it was just outside of my domain of [TS]

  expertise but I also think like this [TS]

  this is an important meta skill to [TS]

  cultivate is [TS]

  curiosity over dismissal right it's it's [TS]

  really easy to dismiss things as like oh [TS]

  whatever those people are doing like [TS]

  they're watching people play video games [TS]

  live like isn't that dumb alright [TS]

  because like is it dumb or do you just [TS]

  not understand what they're doing and [TS]

  and I feel like that was also part of [TS]

  this processes like I want to have an [TS]

  intuitive understanding of what this is [TS]

  and I think I have a much better [TS]

  understanding of it now than I did [TS]

  before I started it's very difficult to [TS]

  articulate I feel in this in the same [TS]

  way that like I've always said like with [TS]

  teacher training there's just so much [TS]

  stuff you just have to do in a classroom [TS]

  like the no amount of learning ahead of [TS]

  time will actually prepare you for it [TS]

  like you just have to be in charge of a [TS]

  bunch of kids before you really get what [TS]

  teachers mean when they say like [TS]

  consistency is really important it's [TS]

  like you but you don't understand until [TS]

  you're there and I feel like there was [TS]

  something similar about that with the [TS]

  streaming like I don't feel like I get [TS]

  it 100% yet but I feel like um 75% of [TS]

  the way there but it's very difficult to [TS]

  articulate because it's just a thing [TS]

  that you have to do and and that is [TS]

  what's going on in in this side project [TS]

  of mine is skill acquisition and feeding [TS]

  curiosity about new things that are [TS]

  coming along instead of just ignoring [TS]

  them potentially to the detriment of my [TS]

  business in the future [TS]

  this episode of cortex is brought to you [TS]

  in part by audible audible has an [TS]

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  little more excitement to your commute [TS]

  or you're finding a way to make laundry [TS]

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  to audible while doing the laundry [TS]

  they're the place to go you can't make [TS]

  more time but you can make the most of [TS]

  it and you can turn your chores into [TS]

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  audible to listen to and the [TS]

  conversations from a few episodes ago [TS]

  about me looking into scrum sound [TS]

  interesting to you then one of the main [TS]

  books about scrum called the art of [TS]

  doing twice the work in [TS]

  the time by Jeff Sutherland is available [TS]

  on audible you can check it out with [TS]

  your free trial just go to [TS]

  slash cortex to get started today [TS]

  that's slash cortex cor te x [TS]

  to find out more and start your free [TS]

  audible trial today [TS]

  thanks to audible for their support of [TS]

  this show the people have spoken gray I [TS]

  don't think it's legitimate Mike because [TS]

  you riled them up it doesn't matter they [TS]

  they needed to know first and once I let [TS]

  them know they felt the need to request [TS]

  in droves in waves of cortex listeners [TS]

  want to know why you left the iPhone se [TS]

  and went back to the iPhone 7 I just [TS]

  want to again get it on record here that [TS]

  I feel like you fomented a mob right [TS]

  that's that's what you did last time I [TS]

  think that it's really unfair for you to [TS]

  refer to our listeners that way to turn [TS]

  this around all I'm doing I'm just [TS]

  trying to provide them with some [TS]

  information to let them choose you know [TS]

  we didn't hear from anyone that [TS]

  specifically said they didn't want to [TS]

  hear about this yeah yeah yeah that's [TS]

  right [TS]

  cuz that's who that's who you hear tons [TS]

  from is the people who don't want to [TS]

  hear about a thing if they really don't [TS]

  want to know tell you you know that's [TS]

  enough they don't you never you never [TS]

  get the people who say no if I feel like [TS]

  the silent majority they're not being [TS]

  represented here but I know Mike I feel [TS]

  like um I feel so hesitant to tell the [TS]

  story because I feel like it's a tale of [TS]

  woe right a tale of woe and there have [TS]

  been many tales of woe about Apple stuff [TS]

  that is probably why I just I sort of [TS]

  haven't wanted to talk about it so I [TS]

  don't I don't know where to begin how [TS]

  long ago did you move away from the [TS]

  iPhone se uh okay so it was it was [TS]

  actually like days before you spotted me [TS]

  using the iPhone 7 cult you know okay if [TS]

  you want to use the word caught if you [TS]

  want to frame this in a particular way [TS]

  you go right ahead [TS]

  well all I remember is the look on your [TS]

  face when I asked you what that was [TS]

  and you just looked at me and you said [TS]

  you didn't want to talk about it in your [TS]

  pocket no no don't you don't you jealous [TS]

  I'm all teary that is and then we didn't [TS]

  see you again for the rest of the [TS]

  weekend no just to be clear [TS]

  Mike is full of lies and nothing [TS]

  happened at the Google conference there [TS]

  what actually happened is I was just [TS]

  using it in front of him [TS]

  and he asked me about it I was like I [TS]

  don't want to get into it now and then [TS]

  whatever this is [TS]

  six months later I still have to get [TS]

  into it I just want to let our listeners [TS]

  know that this has been something that I [TS]

  have been trying to get great to talk [TS]

  about for six months now every now and [TS]

  then it's just sat in our show document [TS]

  and I move it in and then gray adds a [TS]

  little line that says I'm not ready to [TS]

  talk about this yet but clearly some [TS]

  timers heal all wounds well no I mean [TS]

  mostly it's just that like we're getting [TS]

  we're getting up to new iPhone season so [TS]

  if we don't talk about it like we'll [TS]

  have wasted a topic right that's that's [TS]

  what's that's what's happened also [TS]

  there'll be like a confusion gap when [TS]

  you talk about moving from one phone to [TS]

  the other yeah yeah there'll be a [TS]

  confusion gap okay so I guess I guess [TS]

  the place to start is like what did i do [TS]

  what did I do [TS]

  what was my initial reasoning here right [TS]

  is this is partly connected to what I [TS]

  was thinking about four-year of [TS]

  redirection [TS]

  which now I can't even remember what the [TS]

  hell the original idea what I was gonna [TS]

  call it was your new I think maybe we [TS]

  thought what was seems like you yeah [TS]

  which was get the wrong name in every [TS]

  sense yeah the exact opposite of what I [TS]

  was actually intending to do you may [TS]

  also call a year of more yeah yeah [TS]

  exactly you're more by which I will [TS]

  actually be doing less I mean more or [TS]

  less right yeah in the year of less what [TS]

  did I do more I did more more than I've [TS]

  ever done like but you have to [TS]

  understand the way I mean these words [TS]

  people uh but so anyway looking forward [TS]

  to what I was thinking about doing [TS]

  towards the end of 2016 and throughout [TS]

  2017 one of the things that was on my [TS]

  list was more traveling in a bunch of [TS]

  different ways more more traveling both [TS]

  for personal reasons and more traveling [TS]

  for business [TS]

  reasons and that is definitely something [TS]

  that has happened as I anticipated like [TS]

  I've been on way more flights in the [TS]

  last six to eight months then I've been [TS]

  on in the past many years in the last [TS]

  six months maybe in the last year I have [TS]

  seen you more overseas than in London I [TS]

  said yeah you know what I think you're [TS]

  right yeah I think I think you are [TS]

  totally right about that yeah I do not [TS]

  think that is an exaggeration um so yeah [TS]

  I don't always mention it on on podcast [TS]

  buts like I've done more traveling than [TS]

  I thought I make reference to and I was [TS]

  thinking about this and part of my like [TS]

  one of the big things that's frustrating [TS]

  about traveling for me is a kind of [TS]

  range anxiety about the batteries in the [TS]

  devices that I use I feel like so much [TS]

  of my life is just spent around managing [TS]

  batteries yeah and it's getting like it [TS]

  is really getting worse like I feel like [TS]

  I've crossed some kind of threshold [TS]

  where there's just so many batteries to [TS]

  worry about it drives me crazy it is by [TS]

  far and away one of my biggest [TS]

  complaints about technology in the [TS]

  modern world yeah is battery management [TS]

  and like let like laying out all my gear [TS]

  and obsessively trying to figure out [TS]

  what's the minimum number of wires that [TS]

  I can take that will cover all of these [TS]

  devices and it's it's it's frustrating [TS]

  and it's it's yeah it's annoying and in [TS]

  particular the device that you do not [TS]

  want to die on you while you're [TS]

  traveling is the phone what this does [TS]

  the most important thing that you want [TS]

  to keep alive and basically what I was [TS]

  thinking of is like I wanted to try the [TS]

  iPhone 7 with the battery pack because [TS]

  since ever since the the iPhone the the [TS]

  first time was the 6 of the 6s I don't [TS]

  remember where they came out with the [TS]

  battery pack which I think you actually [TS]

  showed me first on this podcast someone [TS]

  I think that was you yeah you hadn't [TS]

  seen it yeah yeah that's what it was I [TS]

  hadn't seen it and I was expecting [TS]

  abject horror from [TS]

  you but you have but you were very [TS]

  interested in it yeah I was very [TS]

  interested in it and I was super annoyed [TS]

  they didn't make it for the the six plus [TS]

  or the 6s plus whatever it was at the [TS]

  time so ever since that came out when my [TS]

  wife and I go traveling she uses her [TS]

  phone with the battery pack and I've [TS]

  always been hugely impressed by how long [TS]

  her phone lasts even when she's doing [TS]

  some intensive pokey hunting as we're [TS]

  traveling around the world right it's [TS]

  like look like you got to catch them all [TS]

  Mike that was also mindful I think so I [TS]

  was like I was always very interested in [TS]

  that and I feel like I have terrible [TS]

  luck with iPhone batteries like my [TS]

  iPhone it just it feels like it never [TS]

  lasts as long as it should I feel like I [TS]

  barely use my phone and it makes it [TS]

  through half the day and if I'm [TS]

  traveling and I've mentioned this to you [TS]

  in a numerous times like if I'm going to [TS]

  Amsterdam right or if I'm flying I swear [TS]

  to god it's like the battery just drops [TS]

  like a rock I feel like I'm not touching [TS]

  you like I put you in low-power mode [TS]

  straight away I've just left you in my [TS]

  pocket like I'm specifically not [TS]

  touching you phone and it's like it just [TS]

  just drops the battery just dropped so [TS]

  fast it's a huge frustration I have a [TS]

  suspicion that it's related to low [TS]

  signal but that's what the phone that's [TS]

  what's causing the problem is there's [TS]

  lots of situation with the signal is low [TS]

  in the battery just drops yeah that that [TS]

  is like the most surefire way to destroy [TS]

  a phone battery is when it's searching [TS]

  for a network yeah like I'm sitting on a [TS]

  train and I can feel it warm in my [TS]

  pocket and it's like what are you doing [TS]

  phone is like oh you're you're switching [TS]

  cell carriers every every five minutes [TS]

  yep [TS]

  you know it's like just even around [TS]

  London like even just today I had a like [TS]

  a very normal morning where I barely [TS]

  used the phone and I got home at noon [TS]

  and the battery was down to 50% as like [TS]

  oh right but I spent some time in some [TS]

  low signal areas like it's just an [TS]

  endless frustration and it's [TS]

  particularly bad on traveling so I [TS]

  thought you know what I'm gonna do I'm [TS]

  gonna try to use the iPhone 7 with the [TS]

  battery pack because if I'm if I'm [TS]

  traveling a bunch this is really [TS]

  important to me to not lose the battery [TS]

  this doesn't feel like enough well let [TS]

  me just like the thing I've been [TS]

  interested to see is like because I've [TS]

  been going to some conferences I'm aware [TS]

  of like how much more the phone really [TS]

  matters a conference [TS]

  in ways that I wouldn't have expected [TS]

  like it's interesting just to go now [TS]

  you're totally right is is this enough [TS]

  there's a few other things that have [TS]

  happened one of the primary things [TS]

  that's happened which I really don't [TS]

  want to get into it like I feel like [TS]

  there's so many stories here but like I [TS]

  just don't want to get into all of them [TS]

  so we're going to try to move past some [TS]

  things but one of them is one of the big [TS]

  reasons why I moved down to the iPhone [TS]

  se was also if you remember I had taken [TS]

  up running around that time and running [TS]

  with a plus-size phone is like a total [TS]

  deal-breaker it's a it's a real pain in [TS]

  the butt to have a plus-size phone can [TS]

  literally be a pain in the butt it can [TS]

  literally be a pain like I'm on my [TS]

  running gear the only pocket like the [TS]

  leasts are the least uncomfortable [TS]

  pocket is like a pocket on the back and [TS]

  then it is literally a pain in the butt [TS]

  you can't fit with us nowhere to live no [TS]

  there's no way to live so I switched out [TS]

  to BSE is like a huge advantage while [TS]

  running like enormous advantage while [TS]

  running now and I was running three [TS]

  times a week up again like story I don't [TS]

  want to get into I eventually decided [TS]

  like I had give running enough of the [TS]

  try and realized I hate you running I [TS]

  thought this is not for me this is no [TS]

  story you need to explain to me there is [TS]

  of all physical exertion running is my [TS]

  least favorite like I hate running up a [TS]

  passion there is I don't understand how [TS]

  anybody enjoys it my brother just ran [TS]

  the London Marathon oh I enjoyed it yeah [TS]

  and I don't understand how that is a [TS]

  thing that is possible for a human to to [TS]

  experience I just can't I just called [TS]

  out yeah so it's like I wanted to give [TS]

  it a fair try I felt like I gave it a [TS]

  fair try and could reasonably come to [TS]

  the conclusion that like this is not for [TS]

  me I don't like so happy cuz I really [TS]

  was annoyed that you were running I [TS]

  never mentioned it but I hate it why did [TS]

  you hate it I just felt like of everyone [TS]

  that I know you would be the person that [TS]

  would also not like running well guess [TS]

  what [TS]

  you're right I'm so happy to hear this [TS]

  so I switch running for the exercise I [TS]

  vastly prefer which is cycling and so [TS]

  it's like okay [TS]

  in cycling like you're on a bike it's a [TS]

  whole different equipment set up right [TS]

  you have you like baskets to hold things [TS]

  there's like you're bringing equipment [TS]

  with you you have them like it's just a [TS]

  totally different set up and so that [TS]

  like cycling well you know I can't win [TS]

  every time with you Mike but so that was [TS]

  the case we're like the SE it didn't [TS]

  matter so much I thought like I'm gonna [TS]

  give I'm gonna give the seven to try and [TS]

  what I was what I wanted to also try was [TS]

  if I just use this with the battery pack [TS]

  all the time right not just for [TS]

  traveling if I just use it with the [TS]

  battery pack can I get used to the [TS]

  physical size that I don't like does the [TS]

  battery pack make it big enough in my [TS]

  hands that it's not uncomfortable to use [TS]

  and so like that that's what I wanted [TS]

  that's what I wanted to try I still feel [TS]

  like there is an important part of this [TS]

  though oh oh yeah there is sorry there [TS]

  is there is one more thing okay there is [TS]

  one more thing which I will straight up [TS]

  acknowledge is a kind of personality [TS]

  flaw with me but is the thing like I [TS]

  recognize about myself and the thing [TS]

  that I recognize is if I'm using [TS]

  something and I feel like that thing has [TS]

  no future I have a very hard time [TS]

  continuing to use it okay and I became [TS]

  more and more convinced that I was just [TS]

  using a dead phone what about it being [TS]

  old it was that - that play into it you [TS]

  were using an old product the oldest [TS]

  like I know you will think that that is [TS]

  the the factor but that is very minor [TS]

  factor it's it's much more that I just [TS]

  kept being convinced like I don't think [TS]

  Apple is ever going to make a phone in [TS]

  this size again okay [TS]

  didn't want to get too used to again [TS]

  yeah that was kind of it like I I loved [TS]

  that phone but it was it just kept [TS]

  niggling in the back of my mind that [TS]

  it's like well like this phone is [TS]

  already dead right in my hands like I'm [TS]

  just I'm like I'm like a sucker holding [TS]

  on to a bygone era [TS]

  and like this is this is a part of my [TS]

  personality which again like sometimes [TS]

  I'll recognize that it can be a flaw and [TS]

  sometimes it is amazing but it's like I [TS]

  just I cannot look backward like I have [TS]

  a really hard time with that and even if [TS]

  something in the present feels like in [TS]

  the future it will be backward I'm like [TS]

  now this I can't I can't deal with this [TS]

  cuz you know the whole time I'm sitting [TS]

  here thinking like there is a myriad of [TS]

  battery cases that would fit the iPhone [TS]

  se [TS]

  okay so slight other thing I had already [TS]

  tried doing a whole bunch of battery [TS]

  cases with the SE and all of them had [TS]

  various frustrations and a long story [TS]

  short none of them worked as well as the [TS]

  battery case on the seven not not even [TS]

  close so I use battery cases I had used [TS]

  battery case on the SE while traveling [TS]

  and they were better than nothing [TS]

  but so the conclusion of this is like [TS]

  okay so I tried these various reasons I [TS]

  got the seven I got the battery case and [TS]

  my experience of it was this battery [TS]

  case is glorious because it finally [TS]

  takes the phone into like what that what [TS]

  the Apple watch is where it's like I [TS]

  don't ever have to really think about [TS]

  this as long as I plug it in for some [TS]

  amount of time once in the day I never [TS]

  have to think about what the battery is [TS]

  on this phone and over time that case [TS]

  for me like now I am used to it the way [TS]

  it looks when I see it because initially [TS]

  it was like one of the ugliest things [TS]

  I've ever seen Apple make because it's [TS]

  like this hump on the back of the phone [TS]

  mm-hmm I have also since held one mmm [TS]

  and it is really a tale of function over [TS]

  form it is stupid to have this just like [TS]

  a hump on the back of the phone for many [TS]

  reasons I think it looks really weird [TS]

  and like you put it down on the table [TS]

  and you press something in on the phone [TS]

  that it flips over when you're holding [TS]

  it in your hand like you rest your hand [TS]

  kind of around the bump and it actually [TS]

  is really nice to hold and it doesn't [TS]

  feel like how a lot of these battery [TS]

  cases feel where you feel like you've [TS]

  doubled the thickness of your phone yeah [TS]

  yeah that's the other problem is like [TS]

  apples using a lot of their own [TS]

  integration [TS]

  and they're able to pull a bunch of [TS]

  tricks part of which is that they're [TS]

  using the female lightning connector on [TS]

  the bottom which is a huge win again [TS]

  because if talking about battery [TS]

  management is like the number of cable [TS]

  if I can make the number of cables less [TS]

  this is a win it's like if I can avoid a [TS]

  microUSB that's fantastic [TS]

  like I don't want to have to have one of [TS]

  these yeah that sucks it's a real [TS]

  annoyance but I have I have just nothing [TS]

  but tremendous praise for the battery [TS]

  case for the seven and it to me it feels [TS]

  like what the battery of a phone should [TS]

  be which is I can even with reasonably [TS]

  heavy use on a travel day expect that [TS]

  this phone will make it till the end of [TS]

  the day without being plugged in which I [TS]

  just I don't feel like that's a lot to [TS]

  ask but I know that with modern phone [TS]

  design it apparently is yeah they would [TS]

  do it if they could yeah everyone wants [TS]

  this everybody knows this like but there [TS]

  they just whatever all funds seem to not [TS]

  really be able to provide it [TS]

  yeah now the other thing which again [TS]

  this is for my personality in particular [TS]

  is I I might over value wins that take [TS]

  something off my mental plate and so [TS]

  feeling like I never have to think about [TS]

  the battery of this phone is such an [TS]

  outsized win in my mind it's hard to [TS]

  explain it's the same way like with you [TS]

  know with the Apple watch it's like the [TS]

  fact that I never have to think about [TS]

  this that sometimes I have I have worn a [TS]

  watch for two days in a row without even [TS]

  charging it it's like it's such a win [TS]

  that I don't have to think about it I [TS]

  love that and especially with battery [TS]

  management I totally love it so on a [TS]

  number of different travelling occasions [TS]

  all of which happened in very rapid [TS]

  succession after you saw me and Ireland [TS]

  with seven I was using the 7 I was like [TS]

  this battery case is amazing this this [TS]

  is fantastic this is this is really [TS]

  great but here's the thing like I tried [TS]

  so hard I tried so hard to like the size [TS]

  of the 7 with the battery case making it [TS]

  a little bigger [TS]

  but I just couldn't I just couldn't [TS]

  I find that sighs for me it is the [TS]

  physically wrong size it's uncomfortable [TS]

  to use over a long period of time it's [TS]

  not small enough to use one-handed it's [TS]

  too small to use two-handed it doesn't [TS]

  turn sideways so that I can use it two [TS]

  handed oh my god just slowly slowly [TS]

  drove me crazy he doing what I think [TS]

  you're doing right now and I I had to [TS]

  let it go and so you don't you don't [TS]

  know what I'm doing but I'm using this [TS]

  seven plus now yes because that was the [TS]

  only place - gasps I know you get it I [TS]

  know you're happy about you Zack to me [TS]

  this is I didn't expect it to go this [TS]

  way no one do you have one to talk to me [TS]

  about it you know it's really funny Mike [TS]

  I have used the seven plus in front of [TS]

  you and you've never noticed because [TS]

  it's the correct natural human being [TS]

  phone it's like I have I have hidden [TS]

  nothing from you I just there was a [TS]

  couple of times when I was using this [TS]

  the seven in front of you and you just [TS]

  you just didn't pick up on it so I just [TS]

  I thought that was funny but but yeah [TS]

  it's like I tried like I have never [TS]

  tried as hard as I tried to really like [TS]

  the seven with the battery case like I [TS]

  just I desperately wanted to really like [TS]

  it but I just I just couldn't get over [TS]

  the physical uncomfortableness of that [TS]

  size for me and that but this is why [TS]

  like I feel like this is this this tale [TS]

  of woe right of like where am I going in [TS]

  this product line they're their main [TS]

  product line it's like physically [TS]

  uncomfortable for me like I just don't [TS]

  like it [TS]

  they have two other sizes with both of [TS]

  which I do like like I still really like [TS]

  the small size right I still really like [TS]

  the plus but but each of these have [TS]

  other disadvantages that their main line [TS]

  of phone doesn't have so which is it's [TS]

  just frustrating I feel like I don't [TS]

  have a really good home in this line [TS]

  because I'm using I'm using the seven [TS]

  plus but that actually doesn't get very [TS]

  much better battery life than the S II [TS]

  did like if you look on the battery life [TS]

  tests there are many times at the S II [TS]

  actually outperforms a seven plus [TS]

  because even though the battery is way [TS]

  bigger the screen is also way bigger [TS]

  right which drain out the battery it's [TS]

  and it's like I'm back in the same [TS]

  position of when I'm traveling having to [TS]

  do the mental management of battery on [TS]

  this phone and it's just frustrating [TS]

  like I was on a trip recently and I was [TS]

  just aware like I was out I was taking a [TS]

  walk like in a city and I was having a [TS]

  really nice time but I was also we're [TS]

  like oh my phone is down at 5% on low [TS]

  battery mode I've thrown it into [TS]

  airplane mode and I need to make sure [TS]

  that I have enough battery to get me [TS]

  back when I'm done with walking around [TS]

  right and it's like I hate that I hate [TS]

  having to pay attention to it I hate the [TS]

  way that Apple does the low-power mode [TS]

  where you have to manually turn it on so [TS]

  if you miss it like you can burn through [TS]

  the last bit of your battery like I just [TS]

  I find it very very frustrating it's [TS]

  like I wish I wish they would make a [TS]

  battery case with a bigger phone but [TS]

  they don't and yeah [TS]

  so that's that's why I mic I feel like [TS]

  it's a big tale of woe is connected to [TS]

  everything in my life and that's and [TS]

  that's where we are but I know that at [TS]

  least you're going to be happy that I'm [TS]

  using the 7 plus there is a lesson to be [TS]

  learned here gray what is that lesson [TS]

  like that when Mike was right he remains [TS]

  that way oh yeah yeah is that the lesson [TS]

  to be learned here yep I don't know if [TS]

  that's a lesson like I think it is hmm I [TS]

  just you know I just like you know I'm [TS]

  sure the listeners can hear my voice [TS]

  like I'm I'm genuinely frustrated and [TS]

  this is all the other like big thing [TS]

  this is connected to which I feel like I [TS]

  barely even want to mention but is these [TS]

  rumors that like the next the next [TS]

  iPhone they're their flagship phone is [TS]

  going to be the same size as the current [TS]

  7 and maybe there's another generation [TS]

  of like 7s that symbolize like I just I [TS]

  just feel frustrated with maybe the way [TS]

  that this is going to go like I'm [TS]

  worried about what their next phone is [TS]

  going to be if it's the same size as the [TS]

  7 so that's that's also why I feel like [TS]

  I might even here just have some kind of [TS]

  stay of execution with the plus size [TS]

  phone I don't know I really I struggle [TS]

  to understand why you find that 7 size [TS]

  so uncomfortable though like I just [TS]

  think it's it's it's not worth it I just [TS]

  figure you may as well go to the top [TS]

  right you know because I just think it [TS]

  makes [TS]

  the most sense to go with the plus foam [TS]

  over the regular size one I just think [TS]

  that you get a lot everything that you [TS]

  get you get more of the kind of just [TS]

  think that it makes to me just makes so [TS]

  much more sense but like you seem [TS]

  much more sense but like you seem [TS]

  to have this like real anti like [TS]

  visceral anti reaction to the size of [TS]

  that phone in in a way that I don't [TS]

  think I fully understand I mean one of [TS]

  the places I feel at the most intensely [TS]

  is with the keyboard like I'm really [TS]

  just aware the keyboard when I'm typing [TS]

  it's just a little too big to [TS]

  comfortably type with one hand right and [TS]

  then when I bring my other hand over to [TS]

  it's now too small [TS]

  well I mean you know the solace that you [TS]

  may get from this new phone is [TS]

  apparently the screen will be a similar [TS]

  size to the plus just in a smaller body [TS]

  so stuff like that it might not feel too [TS]

  bad you'll have more screen real estate [TS]

  to actually use both hands with I feel [TS]

  like I need to see a 7 plus overlaid on [TS]

  a 7 to understand the relative size of [TS]

  these things because I'm like I've been [TS]

  reading all of the articles about like [TS]

  what what the new size might be industry [TS]

  like isn't it just a taller screen it's [TS]

  not actually a whole lot wider and say [TS]

  well that's that's not that doesn't help [TS]

  anything you can actually get this [TS]

  experience now you can go to a phone [TS]

  store and try the Galaxy S a similar [TS]

  dimensions hmm I might actually do that [TS]

  just just to let my mind rest a little [TS]

  bit about this like there's that the two [TS]

  sizes they're both like smaller than the [TS]

  iPhones but they have bigger screens and [TS]

  both of them hmm I might literally do [TS]

  that this whole shoes whole bunch of [TS]

  like galaxies um [TS]

  pop-up stores all around London they're [TS]

  ever lettest yeah they're everyone they [TS]

  are everywhere to get you to go in and [TS]

  try out the phone like you can't you [TS]

  can't walk around without them I get [TS]

  scared every time I leave the house now [TS]

  I'm gonna return home with one it's a [TS]

  real fear that I have whenever I go into [TS]

  central London I'm I do my very best to [TS]

  avoid the coffin warehouse I just can't [TS]

  go near it [TS]

  because I see it I get sucked in the [TS]

  only time I went to look at one and have [TS]

  held one was when they weren't for sale [TS]

  but they had them in the stores and well [TS]

  I can't buy one right now so this is [TS]

  safe I love that design man yeah no it [TS]

  looks good it looks good but like that I [TS]

  just I'm just concerned I'm concerned [TS]

  about where this is going in the future [TS]

  and edges [TS]

  because I feel like I'm set I'm [TS]

  sensitive to that size I'm like extra [TS]

  worried I'm extra worried that that I've [TS]

  just again like bought myself to stay of [TS]

  execution I hope you're happy now [TS]

  listeners do you have the story today's [TS]

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  more at dice comm / cortex SDI see EECOM [TS]

  / cortex thank you so much to dice for [TS]

  supporting cortex and real afm so now [TS]

  you've been on this like vision quest of [TS]

  device to device to device a trail of [TS]

  sadness uh-huh there is like you know we [TS]

  were talking earlier about this [TS]

  graveyard of ideas there must be some [TS]

  graveyard of iPhones somewhere like what [TS]

  what even happened to all these funds [TS]

  they like in in use in various ways [TS]

  playing different sound effects remember [TS]

  at your house or something like well [TS]

  that's ridiculous Mike oh right yeah yep [TS]

  yep who would have who would have use [TS]

  for three phones no nobody nobody would [TS]

  have use for three phones now for on the [TS]

  other hand the iPhone the iPhone 7 went [TS]

  on to someone who could use it so that [TS]

  is that is gone but no the SE the multi [TS]

  phone lifestyle Bessie has ended up [TS]

  filling a very interesting role [TS]

  in my life now several shows ago people [TS]

  were asking why the hell don't you just [TS]

  use two phones you idiot [TS]

  alright that's like if you have the if [TS]

  there's things you like about one and [TS]

  don't like by the other like just used [TS]

  to and my frustration is there's no way [TS]

  software wise to use two phones if [TS]

  you're all in on the Apple ecosystem [TS]

  health data is locked to a single phone [TS]

  and Apple watches are locked to a single [TS]

  phone so if you want to try to use two [TS]

  phones and you're also tracking your [TS]

  health and use an Apple watch it's just [TS]

  a it's just a total non-starter because [TS]

  data and notifications are not going to [TS]

  seamlessly move back and forth between [TS]

  the two of them but I found an [TS]

  interesting an interesting sort of case [TS]

  that has worked out quite nicely because [TS]

  while I've been using the the plus and I [TS]

  do like a lot of the advantages of the [TS]

  plus like the bigger screen is nice [TS]

  particularly for reading ebooks like it [TS]

  is nice to have that out and about but [TS]

  the place I didn't like the Plus very [TS]

  much is in the house because if I have a [TS]

  phone in my pocket like it's still a big [TS]

  phone right whenever you sit down I'm [TS]

  always really aware of it physically [TS]

  like in my pocket and if I would take it [TS]

  out I would sort of lose it around the [TS]

  house because I didn't remember where I [TS]

  was putting it down and so I don't have [TS]

  a day phone and a night phone but I have [TS]

  ended up with a house phone and an [TS]

  outdoor phone because here's the thing [TS]

  when I'm in the house the seven-plus [TS]

  sits on a little charger and all of the [TS]

  notifications that I would get from the [TS]

  seven-plus through my Apple watch all of [TS]

  that stuff still works like all of the [TS]

  fussy way that I have set up the phone [TS]

  to notify me when I want with particular [TS]

  like with a particular watch setup all [TS]

  of that still works because the phone is [TS]

  in the house on the Wi-Fi connected to [TS]

  the watch and then I can just use the SE [TS]

  as a little pocket phone right for in [TS]

  the house and this this is fantastic [TS]

  because now it doesn't take up a whole [TS]

  bunch of space [TS]

  I can still use it to control all the [TS]

  lights in my house I can use it to send [TS]

  back a quick text message to someone if [TS]

  I need to like all of all of the useful [TS]

  stuff that you would use a phone for in [TS]

  your house I can use little se for which [TS]

  I totally love a little se for it it's [TS]

  perfect for that so now now the routine [TS]

  is when I come home I simply just swap [TS]

  the phones the seven plus goes on the [TS]

  charger and I take off the SE and the SE [TS]

  is the house phone and the seven plus is [TS]

  the outdoor phone so I'm still using [TS]

  both of them and I still really like [TS]

  both of them each is adapted to a [TS]

  perfect ecological niche now you gave [TS]

  only two use cases there so I mean might [TS]

  be to dig into this a little bit more [TS]

  you said if I need to send back a quick [TS]

  reply to a message I need to filter all [TS]

  my lights hmm [TS]

  you can do both of these extremely [TS]

  adequately with your watch you can use [TS]

  the home app or the home complication to [TS]

  control the lights or you can ask Siri [TS]

  and you can also send canned responses [TS]

  speak into the watch or draw on the [TS]

  watch to say yeah you can send canned [TS]

  responses but there's tons of like I [TS]

  have OmniFocus to set up on the little [TS]

  phone like I have I have a whole bunch [TS]

  of the normal stuff that I would use now [TS]

  it works on the watch but not for [TS]

  entering have you ever tried to actually [TS]

  enter something complicated on the watch [TS]

  with OmniFocus like good luck with that [TS]

  all right [TS]

  also the Notes app which I use all the [TS]

  time to just capture some thoughts like [TS]

  there's a tons of stuff that the phone [TS]

  does yeah but like that's useful with a [TS]

  little keyboard like the watch is not [TS]

  replacing that from what you've [TS]

  mentioned me and then the show in the [TS]

  past you don't like live in a manor [TS]

  house no we have three rooms with the [TS]

  amount of iPads that I know that you own [TS]

  surely there is never a device out of [TS]

  reach there are times when there is a [TS]

  device out of reach like if I'm in the [TS]

  kitchen is particularly the case where [TS]

  like there's not an iPad Within Reach [TS]

  in the kitchen right that is by far and [TS]

  away the time that is most useful to [TS]

  have the phone there in a kitchen iPad [TS]

  no no we don't need a kitchen knife at [TS]

  that's crazy talk like oh right that's [TS]

  sorry that's crazy talk I've pushed it [TS]

  too far yeah you have pushed it too far [TS]

  I find it is just more convenient [TS]

  sometimes to have a device in the pocket [TS]

  to respond to certain kinds of things or [TS]

  to make notes of certain kinds of things [TS]

  so I find it really useful I like it for [TS]

  that there's also a way [TS]

  which that little phone I have just set [TS]

  up to be default connected to some of [TS]

  the speakers in our house then also just [TS]

  uses like a little podcast machine for [TS]

  when I'm playing podcasts around the [TS]

  house I really like it as this as this [TS]

  smaller device to just have with me to [TS]

  do a few minor things and then I don't [TS]

  have to have the big bulky seven plus in [TS]

  my pocket when I'm walking around the [TS]

  house all the time I'm telling you Mike [TS]

  you're thinking I'm ridiculous now but [TS]

  I'm just gonna wait just gonna wait [TS]

  until you have a house Knoll outdoor [TS]

  phone I followed you down the multipad [TS]

  lifestyle yeah you thought that was [TS]

  crazy look who's laughing now [TS]

  no there is no realm in wit now I really [TS]

  don't think this is gonna happen either [TS]

  I just love it if it did I I like really [TS]

  don't like any iPhone sighs other than [TS]

  the plus ya and the so then I would have [TS]

  to that doesn't make I mean I wouldn't [TS]

  have to put that there's no point right [TS]

  right yeah uh this this one this is a [TS]

  bridge too far for me this one I'm [TS]

  afraid this is a bridge too far for just [TS]

  about anyone I think it should be as [TS]

  well yeah that this is basically me [TS]

  solving the problem of I don't like [TS]

  having the big phone in my pocket but I [TS]

  also still want a phone in my pocket [TS]

  when I'm in the house I don't know about [TS]

  this one gray I'm not sold on this okay [TS]

  I am I am genuinely not trying to sell [TS]

  you on this I know you know I am I am [TS]

  not trying to sell anyone on this just [TS]

  to be clear I can really see why you [TS]

  didn't want to talk about all of this [TS]

  now cuz you've had to let me win again [TS]

  with with the superior phone sighs I'm [TS]

  actually totally fine having you having [TS]

  you win on this one with the with the [TS]

  big bust size it's it's just like I feel [TS]

  like this is connected to everything in [TS]

  my like there's so much we haven't even [TS]

  discussed here that I felt like mentally [TS]

  exhausted discussing this at all it's [TS]

  like so many so many rabbit holes we [TS]

  could go down to great we can come back [TS]

  to this another time then no no we don't [TS]

  need to go down this again okay that's I [TS]

  mean maybe we will when the next fella [TS]

  comes out no I'm sure they'll be a lot [TS]

  there'll be a lot of that come September [TS]

  will there be anything to discuss with [TS]

  Anne [TS]

  found surely not there enough surely not [TS]

  neveress let's end our productivity show [TS]

  talking a little bit about America truck [TS]

  simulator again ooh [TS]

  everyone's favorite segment struck time [TS]

  the point of all work is to drive a [TS]

  pretend truck ultimate so it makes sense [TS]

  that at the end of the show we get there [TS]

  right like that's that's it [TS]

  listen to the show Stephen wrote in to [TS]

  let me know I didn't know this that [TS]

  apparently there is beta support for VR [TS]

  and American Truck Simulator did you [TS]

  know about this oh yeah of course I know [TS]

  about that I didn't know about this it [TS]

  has been around for a while and it's [TS]

  pretty buggy but it does work mm-hmm now [TS]

  that is a it's just an increasingly more [TS]

  intriguing aspect of this game to be [TS]

  completely immersed in it you know that [TS]

  it feels like it's just an added level [TS]

  yeah look I don't know when I don't know [TS]

  how but at some point in some way I'm [TS]

  gonna be driving an imaginary truck in [TS]

  VR like this like this is coming this is [TS]

  in my future I sent this to you today I [TS]

  saw this on the verge this this gaming [TS]

  PC called the Corsair one which is very [TS]

  intriguing to me I didn't get a chance [TS]

  to look at this super properly I'm [TS]

  guessing that it's essentially a Windows [TS]

  PC that's set up to be like a game [TS]

  console is that what it is that's [TS]

  exactly what it is so it is small and it [TS]

  has everything and you buy all in one [TS]

  package so again I apologize to all the [TS]

  PC gamers in the audience because I [TS]

  cannot imagine how hard they're rolling [TS]

  their eyes to the idea that this is the [TS]

  PC that intrigues us like the one that [TS]

  is created to being not that right like [TS]

  that it is made to be like a games [TS]

  console but this is finally like the PC [TS]

  that makes I think the most sense for me [TS]

  if I was going to go down this route [TS]

  like it is a PC that is designed in part [TS]

  to be put on a desk mmm like it is it is [TS]

  I think a little bit taller but similar [TS]

  ish dimensions to the Mac Pro woohoo and [TS]

  I'm very intrigued by this because like [TS]

  as I said like one of the things that I [TS]

  really didn't want [TS]

  was to have a big box for this stuff and [TS]

  this is not going to be the most [TS]

  powerful PC I get that but like I think [TS]

  that this looks to me like it a little [TS]

  bit of reading about it it looks to me [TS]

  like the best middle ground for a lot of [TS]

  this stuff yeah I haven't had a chance [TS]

  to look at super fully I'm just glancing [TS]

  at the at the website now and going [TS]

  through some of this stuff I can say I [TS]

  have not been more tempted by any PC in [TS]

  the last 15 years than this one [TS]

  Yeah right like this this looks like oh [TS]

  well well hello Corsair one yeah cuz it [TS]

  looks the styling is not too much it [TS]

  looks like a games console in styling [TS]

  mmm but just the idea that it is so [TS]

  we've both done this right like we mean [TS]

  you have spent quite a bit of time just [TS]

  like looking at what is available in the [TS]

  PC gaming market yeah and my biggest [TS]

  problem is I just don't know what I'm [TS]

  looking for building a PC there's no [TS]

  there's no way to cut it like it's just [TS]

  a bigger deal than buying a Mac my [TS]

  buying a Mac is like guess what you've [TS]

  got a couple options and you know what [TS]

  just to get because like I remember when [TS]

  I used to build PCs and buy pcs it's [TS]

  like you need to know a bunch of stuff [TS]

  and this feels like exactly what I'm [TS]

  looking for us like look I just you just [TS]

  make it for me put it in a cylinder I [TS]

  want to think about this thing as little [TS]

  as possible alright like what what I [TS]

  want to do is be able to turn this on [TS]

  and boot into steam as fast as possible [TS]

  yep that's that is my goal here and I [TS]

  don't want to have to have an entire [TS]

  room in my house set up with like a [TS]

  whole other set up like this just this [TS]

  looks really really tempting and if it [TS]

  can run VR it's like well maybe [TS]

  TRUCKING VR with Corsair one could be a [TS]

  possibility and I saw that they're [TS]

  making double trailers you excited about [TS]

  this like you can have two trailers [TS]

  attached to a truck I love that I love [TS]

  that you're following the trucking news [TS]

  Mike III [TS]

  pay more attention to the trucking news [TS]

  than I do play it I'm just I started [TS]

  following the SDS software Twitter [TS]

  account I think because they tweeted [TS]

  about you and I thought that was really [TS]

  funny yeah so idea they tweeted [TS]

  something about like I got my pizza or [TS]

  whatever when I was playing the key yeah [TS]

  I think I think you'd retweeted or [TS]

  something and I'm sorry I was like all I [TS]

  like these these people that's cool what [TS]

  I really want them to do though is to [TS]

  make an actual multiplayer experience [TS]

  there are mods mmm like it looks like [TS]

  there's like this server or something [TS]

  that you can use it that there look [TS]

  there are mods for multiplayer games and [TS]

  the reason this interests me is that as [TS]

  null on Twitter sent us a tweet that [TS]

  intrigues me greatly about the idea of [TS]

  me and you driving down the road [TS]

  together as a claw text episode like [TS]

  talking over CB radio I feel like this [TS]

  is Hugh just trying to get into my [TS]

  office in a different way Mike right now [TS]

  this that's what this feels the [TS]

  multiplayer is not local it's online no [TS]

  it I know it's not local but something [TS]

  about this feels like the thin end of [TS]

  the wedge right that that's what this [TS]

  feels like [TS]

  we need to land pile in this thing I [TS]

  have great internet yeah see that's [TS]

  exactly it right you know yeah well it [TS]

  will start remotely like Oh it'll be a [TS]

  LAN party and then it'll be like so [TS]

  where are you during the day [TS]

  oh that's that's that's gonna happen [TS]

  here I I think that you are taking my [TS]

  innocent very innocent idea just wanted [TS]

  to play a video game you know and you're [TS]

  turning it into this thing [TS]

  she's unfair I don't think it is unfair [TS]

  I think I know how your Mike mind works [TS]

  all I want to do is just is just drive a [TS]

  truck with you I don't think that that's [TS]

  too much to ask I like driving my truck [TS]

  alone right that's that's what I like [TS]

  it's not going to be in the same truck [TS]

  so it's a solitary experience Mike and [TS]

  driving a truck across solitary [TS]

  experience that you shared with [TS]

  thousands on the Internet [TS]

  yeah but it's different they're not [TS]

  driving trucks I mean someone could be [TS]

  right that's actually not true some of [TS]

  them are but you know it's look I'm just [TS]

  I'm trying to just say it's it's like an [TS]

  experience it's a solitary [TS]

  desert experience that sometimes shared [TS]

  with a couple thousand passengers but [TS]

  mostly solitary experience [TS]

  let's truck driving [TS]