Roderick on the Line

Ep. 244: "Super Cartoid"

 

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

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  slash supertrain hello hi John [TS]

  hi Merlin how's it going good how are [TS]

  you I'm doing great [TS]

  wow you do you sound great [TS]

  yes I've decided that I'm Pepe today or [TS]

  permanently [TS]

  oh I don't know you know just try to [TS]

  look on the bright side of life you [TS]

  don't know saying yeah I mean that [TS]

  lasted for a minute or two there yep yep [TS]

  you just keep looking at the chimneys [TS]

  you know I'm saying [TS]

  looking at the chimney that's what they [TS]

  say they say look at the chimneys when [TS]

  you're walking around [TS]

  most people will like stare at the [TS]

  ground or stare at the middle-distance [TS]

  try to remember to look up look at the [TS]

  chimneys it will look you look at the [TS]

  chimneys it'll elevate your mood yeah [TS]

  you'll see the chimbley sleeps bear oh [TS]

  boy oh yeah look at the chimneys I don't [TS]

  know it's like diets [TS]

  who knows if those things actually work [TS]

  looking at the chimneys looking at the [TS]

  chimneys but if you tell yourself it [TS]

  works it might work yeah smile when you [TS]

  sing that's right and smile when you [TS]

  talking to the phone not as good as a [TS]

  wink to a blind bat is that right smile [TS]

  when you're talking to the phone I guess [TS]

  so that's my mom I try that said that [TS]

  she's in sales she learned that when [TS]

  you're talking to someone smile yeah how [TS]

  does this is this podcast sound better [TS]

  what - deranged clap let's try and set [TS]

  up them it sounds pretty good kind of [TS]

  weird if we could do the whole show like [TS]

  this that we could I bet from now on if [TS]

  we just smiled through the whole show [TS]

  it'd be a much more we said scared [TS]

  we sound very scared have you noticed [TS]

  that I mention this before but if you [TS]

  listen to a sportscaster talking about [TS]

  sports yeah the sound that they make is [TS]

  the same exact sound as if you were [TS]

  yelling at somebody because you're [TS]

  really mad at [TS]

  anything is heavily compressed probably [TS]

  no no I mean I don't mean the asana [TS]

  thing they're normal they're normal [TS]

  voice it sounds like they're like [TS]

  yelling somebody in traffic or something [TS]

  yeah exactly like here he comes that is [TS]

  that you know it's just like it's uh [TS]

  it's the same it evokes the same that is [TS]

  so interesting like if you like you know [TS]

  you think about like when you listen to [TS]

  like people calling like South American [TS]

  as they say football games you can get [TS]

  that vibe clearer if you're not a native [TS]

  speaker because the tone just sounds so [TS]

  manic oh yeah they're really upset I'm [TS]

  interested in in the radio host Alex [TS]

  Jones I'm very interested in him and so [TS]

  well I don't want to get too far into it [TS]

  I've talked about this a lot of places a [TS]

  lot of times very interested in Alex [TS]

  Jones but you know I turned to you as an [TS]

  industry expert like I've heard him when [TS]

  he just talks and yells he has a very [TS]

  low and very kind of grindy voice in [TS]

  real life but but when they record him [TS]

  for his show for his YouTube stuff for [TS]

  his radio show they do something I think [TS]

  they do something to his voice I think [TS]

  it's something they do to a lot of talk [TS]

  voices and I always it I'm right it [TS]

  sounds bigger it sounds growler it [TS]

  sounds more evenly growly do you know [TS]

  saying is that is that quality of the [TS]

  microphone do you think it's compression [TS]

  like would aural enhancement like what [TS]

  do you do to make some noise out like [TS]

  this like not how we're talking it's [TS]

  mega compressed mm-hmm um you know [TS]

  because it's compressed it's compressed [TS]

  at the source and it's compressed up the [TS]

  chain and then it's you know it's got [TS]

  that crazy radio compression on it too [TS]

  okay when I think of like AM radio [TS]

  especially and that the particular kind [TS]

  of sound somebody on like talk radio he [TS]

  that's mostly compression well so what's [TS]

  funny about that compression is I was [TS]

  having a very very interesting [TS]

  conversation with the radio DJ not very [TS]

  long ago a professional professional was [TS]

  somewhat better KEXP John well he was [TS]

  describing an experience of going to kxb [TS]

  he is himself not a KEXP DJ [TS]

  but but he was going there to do an [TS]

  interview and talk to some KEXP [TS]

  people you know talk to talk to the [TS]

  professional KEXP DJ's and he got there [TS]

  and he said that little trick of the [TS]

  trade that the KEXP DJ who is a who's [TS]

  fairly famous person in these parts at [TS]

  least not your morning guy well you know [TS]

  let's just say for the sake of yeah for [TS]

  the sake of argument let's just say it's [TS]

  a morning guy give some legal reason [TS]

  that you're being so desi about who [TS]

  these people are [TS]

  well you know small town here huh and [TS]

  people get really you know that he's [TS]

  always brought times John Frye you know [TS]

  you want to be careful who you tell [TS]

  people you know yeah yeah so Amos st [TS]

  setup so here he is and he's doing this [TS]

  interview with the guy and he [TS]

  immediately recognizes that he's got the [TS]

  he's got the compression on on their [TS]

  interview like it's super slammed and [TS]

  he's got it so that his voice the the [TS]

  host is just always going to be a little [TS]

  bit louder a little bit like better then [TS]

  the guest he gets the Alpha setting the [TS]

  the gorilla mindset setting yeah but but [TS]

  my my my um my companion in this [TS]

  conversation says he recognized the [TS]

  compression was so crazy that he just [TS]

  started talking really quietly and the [TS]

  compressor then because he was talking [TS]

  so quietly the compressor would would [TS]

  super super grab on to his voice and and [TS]

  it made him the louder of the two [TS]

  because he was he was working with the [TS]

  be understood that the compressor was [TS]

  set in such a way that the more quietly [TS]

  you spoke the more the compressor would [TS]

  work and and it was it was actually [TS]

  making his voice appear louder by virtue [TS]

  of just talking more and more [TS]

  quietly why so he was he was he was like [TS]

  gaming this guy's compressor settings in [TS]

  the interview and and you could you buy [TS]

  the story you could tell that that the [TS]

  other DJ recognized what he was doing [TS]

  but you know is some somewhat powerless [TS]

  because this is his tone missus his [TS]

  setting this is his tone he can't start [TS]

  to get weird and tell you going I can [TS]

  all get all like uh AOR yeah he had a [TS]

  mage a he had to maintain his tone his [TS]

  vocal sciences that's his local brand so [TS]

  this other you know this other character [TS]

  was just like yeah that's very [TS]

  interesting good question and it was [TS]

  like really you know his voice was [TS]

  really I think filling up people's ear [TS]

  ear holes so Alex Jones may in fact not [TS]

  be making that much noise he's got the [TS]

  gravel and his voice he's talking yeah [TS]

  I'm a nice guy but he's but he's maybe [TS]

  not making that much volume it might be [TS]

  that that his compressors are doing all [TS]

  the work cuz if you talked like that all [TS]

  the time you would be blowing your voice [TS]

  look like you could say I remember [TS]

  hearing a thing on public radio where I [TS]

  hear about these things about I believe [TS]

  you can take a class to learn how to do [TS]

  like shredding metal vocals in a way [TS]

  that doesn't wreck your voice apparently [TS]

  there's a method for doing that if you [TS]

  do it the way it sounds like you should [TS]

  do it you'll just you'll shred your [TS]

  voice how did Bobcat Goldthwait do that [TS]

  all those years oh I don't know I think [TS]

  he's just a little broken inside he's uh [TS]

  but you know that you're right this part [TS]

  of the brand so it's probably also [TS]

  fairly heavily gated so every word but [TS]

  like with a fast gait like a strong but [TS]

  fast gait right mm-hmm strong Bathgate [TS]

  I'm this more than really understand is [TS]

  a great TV show Bathgate also didn't [TS]

  they do that song daenam in linen linen [TS]

  a nail down fast course fascinate [TS]

  clothes you will what yeah I'm still [TS]

  smiling [TS]

  uh well the you know uh the big big [TS]

  reveal for us in the in the Rock and [TS]

  Roll scene was realizing that Chris [TS]

  Cornell made almost no sound at all huh [TS]

  Chris Cornell of Soundgarden rumor was [TS]

  that he earned through monitor guys [TS]

  because he had this sort of him that [TS]

  this impossible situation which was he's [TS]

  fronting this massive band and if you [TS]

  listen to the records you know is [TS]

  fucking killing it but in fact he's [TS]

  making like he's moving very very little [TS]

  air and he's just like oh yeah what now [TS]

  and he figures it out oh that wrote that [TS]

  means that in the midst of all of that [TS]

  very very loud noise they've got to be [TS]

  able to bring up his vocals without [TS]

  causing feedback correct [TS]

  that sounds very challenging correct [TS]

  they've got to be able to bring up his [TS]

  vocals in the monitors right like it at [TS]

  the front of the house trigger ly if [TS]

  you're playing super big rooms you know [TS]

  you've got a lot of you can do a lot up [TS]

  there right to make everything sound [TS]

  right if you're good at at front of [TS]

  house but you know that I think [TS]

  especially before in-ear monitors your [TS]

  monitor guys just like look man I'm [TS]

  giving you all that I can and he's that [TS]

  play he's up there saying I can't hear [TS]

  myself Oh fine fine more uh-huh pretty [TS]

  crazy but but that may have been true of [TS]

  that may actually be true this and I've [TS]

  wondered this for a long time it may in [TS]

  some or another way be true of all those [TS]

  guys [TS]

  maybe Kurt Cobain wasn't seeing that [TS]

  loud maybe none of them sing that loud [TS]

  maybe I'm an idiot because I didn't [TS]

  understand now I didn't understand how [TS]

  microphones work [TS]

  Django so working harder not smarter [TS]

  that's exactly what what I terrified him [TS]

  like I got up there when I first started [TS]

  playing rock music and I thought that's [TS]

  what it sounded like and [TS]

  I was capable of making that much noise [TS]

  what I was capable of making as much [TS]

  noise as it sounded like and so I would [TS]

  just scream into these microphones I [TS]

  didn't need to I could have just been [TS]

  like lot of data data data instead of [TS]

  you know I was really going for it at [TS]

  the end of a show I lay down on the [TS]

  floor panting and did when I was 20 [TS]

  uh-huh did you have to I could have just [TS]

  been using the microphone I could have [TS]

  just turned up the knob just use the mic [TS]

  but this isn't something we revisited [TS]

  several times in the past but the [TS]

  especially when you're when you're [TS]

  touring and let's say you're in Europe [TS]

  or you know really anywhere it's really [TS]

  it's a different night every night in [TS]

  terms of the setup and the sound you [TS]

  know what all your stuff should sound [TS]

  like but you know it could be you just [TS]

  get the you know the sound man is too [TS]

  high and the bartender has to run sound [TS]

  or something right where you have to be [TS]

  don't you have to be very self [TS]

  sufficient to like where you could [TS]

  almost do without monitors if you had to [TS]

  I mean in the way that you prepare you [TS]

  can't assume that you're going to get [TS]

  those Radiohead ear buds and stuff like [TS]

  that yeah but you I mean you work - I [TS]

  think what you you you work with in the [TS]

  house that you built in your own mind so [TS]

  if if if I had started out singing you [TS]

  know like well I just have these words [TS]

  to sing at this volume I would I would I [TS]

  would be adjusted intended by your ex [TS]

  you're so good thank you I just be [TS]

  sitting on the couch while you're [TS]

  recording right you read out you write a [TS]

  hit song it's just a listen I am looking [TS]

  out the door and I can see the outside [TS]

  crying chorus door door door [TS]

  you see spoon means different things [TS]

  it's different oh yeah right geez oh [TS]

  that's what I kept saying to people [TS]

  didn't they're not really listening [TS]

  teaspoon every time I say teaspoon it [TS]

  means a different things it's different [TS]

  thing yes it's your fault that you don't [TS]

  understand that there's five teaspoon [TS]

  and their five to fucking shame on them [TS]

  you have to explain your teaspoons to [TS]

  anybody boo yeah so he's like oh that [TS]

  Lulu says teaspoon no it says five [TS]

  different things about teaspoon teaspoon [TS]

  maybe wasn't down with the heist piece [TS]

  boom baby wasn't down with the heist [TS]

  just trying to do what I thought was [TS]

  right baby wasn't dead was down with it [TS]

  she was not down was not down with it I [TS]

  was you know using street vernacular [TS]

  there how that's true uh but you know I [TS]

  can't go back I can't go back and do [TS]

  that I can about you've already built in [TS]

  your mind and like now that mortgage is [TS]

  paid off whether you like it or not [TS]

  let's be honest you live in your house [TS]

  mine yes yes yes all right as long as [TS]

  we're talking tech and this is where [TS]

  we're really gonna lose a lot of people [TS]

  yeah you know I don't know if you've [TS]

  ever noticed when we're recording you [TS]

  have better ears than I I don't know if [TS]

  you've ever noticed but sometimes when [TS]

  we're recording you may occasionally [TS]

  hear the sound of a streetcar a going by [TS]

  yeah yeah probably I don't notice it if [TS]

  you go back and listen you'll probably [TS]

  you've heard it probably a couple times [TS]

  ding ding okay here's my question to you [TS]

  there's only a minimum of things that I [TS]

  can do with damping there are some [TS]

  things I could do but that is is it's a [TS]

  multi-ton train here comes one right now [TS]

  rattling the ground and shaking where I [TS]

  am let's set aside that I made a [TS]

  terrible decision to be next to a [TS]

  streetcar line - oh the corner goes you [TS]

  might know you probably didn't hear it [TS]

  but that was a train that just went by [TS]

  yeah and would I be well-served to get [TS]

  I'm just these are words I've read on [TS]

  the internet and never said out loud [TS]

  what I be well-served to get a car toy [TS]

  or supercar toyed microphone would that [TS]

  help minimize the amount of occasional [TS]

  streetcar sound that people hear on this [TS]

  program [TS]

  hmm I'm currently using a shure uh i [TS]

  think it's an 87 a beta 87 a is what i [TS]

  use right that's a that's a nice [TS]

  microphone and you you are on a classic [TS]

  SMB right no right now I'm on my own you [TS]

  dingus my B caster remote microphone [TS]

  that's the one you can put in your tummy [TS]

  when you talk right that's right that's [TS]

  right [TS]

  currently I [TS]

  a staged on a book a giant coffee table [TS]

  book about the history of the Brooks [TS]

  Brothers company the people who make [TS]

  suits yes huh [TS]

  now the people that make suits you know [TS]

  it's a venerable company we it's that's [TS]

  one of those terms that we use when we [TS]

  don't know what else to say its [TS]

  venerable and this different Bobbie [TS]

  Brooks like in the John Cougar song it's [TS]

  different yeah you know blame Bobby [TS]

  Brooks let him do what he pleased uh [TS]

  that must be some kind of short short Oh [TS]

  Bobbie Brooks okay or busy ISM yeah [TS]

  maybe it's a maybe it's a saddle shoe or [TS]

  something okay sorry I've got a Midwest [TS]

  thing figures in one of the little text [TS]

  uh doesn't matter talking with some [TS]

  other people who do these things they [TS]

  were talking about the need to do [TS]

  interviews yeah um and being in a an [TS]

  environment where picked up lots of [TS]

  background sound and one suggestion was [TS]

  to get something called car toy tour [TS]

  super car toy now is that a super tight [TS]

  grouping of where that it will pick up [TS]

  the sound is that what that means a [TS]

  super tight car toy is you're saying is [TS]

  a car toys oh it's a I think it's I'm [TS]

  gonna look it up I think it's a kind of [TS]

  car toy super yeah car toy boy see my [TS]

  pretty further okay it could be hyper [TS]

  car toys a car - car - what the what [TS]

  they're talking about is car totality Oh [TS]

  car card cardioid cardioid cardioid is [TS]

  part of the body part okay so so what [TS]

  will edit that out party oh yeah [TS]

  cardioid is an artery okay so I should [TS]

  not get one that has a narrow arteries [TS]

  that would not be good for me as a man [TS]

  of my age no I think you're gonna want I [TS]

  think you're gonna want one with this [TS]

  big car toyed artery as you dare to put [TS]

  a stent in my mic yeah yeah the thing [TS]

  now so in terms of your in terms of your [TS]

  like your Carty ID microphones you can [TS]

  you can adjust that on a lot of [TS]

  microphones the one that you have right [TS]

  now you cannot the the the sure the the [TS]

  big dildo one that everybody likes the [TS]

  one you like for singing that what is [TS]

  that SMB so what's called that's some [TS]

  seven [TS]

  seven that one you get little clickers [TS]

  on the bottom right yeah you can you can [TS]

  adjust I mean a lot of microphones like [TS]

  the one that I'm I'm talking into right [TS]

  now um has has settings it doesn't it it [TS]

  doesn't it doesn't actually say cardioid [TS]

  but it does say like you've got your get [TS]

  your mono and then you can switch it to [TS]

  your stereo really and key do the [TS]

  roll-off thingy the roller thingy isn't [TS]

  their thing yet on the bottom of the of [TS]

  the sure there's a little wave I don't [TS]

  know what it does but if you get [TS]

  yourself a little a little tiny like [TS]

  eyeglasses screwdriver you can puck [TS]

  scoot that over and that doesn't that [TS]

  change your amount of base and whatnot [TS]

  yeah you can you so there are things [TS]

  called high-pass filters and they're [TS]

  things called low-pass filters and just [TS]

  as they sound if you put a high-pass [TS]

  filter on something it lets the high [TS]

  sounds pass and does not let the low [TS]

  sounds through it will it'll roll the [TS]

  low off because there's things in in in [TS]

  audio there are at the low end and at [TS]

  the high end there are sounds that [TS]

  although you can't hear them let's say [TS]

  you can't hear them they can take up a [TS]

  lot of space in your mind house hmm [TS]

  so interesting there's all this low-end [TS]

  information that can get put into a [TS]

  recording that I mean there's certainly [TS]

  there's a lot of it that you can hear [TS]

  but there's also a lot of it that maybe [TS]

  you can't hear but when you take it away [TS]

  you can hear the absence of all this [TS]

  garbage you know like it it's not it's [TS]

  it's it's sonic information that is [TS]

  below the level of like a recognizable [TS]

  note interesting so it's not going to be [TS]

  jamming up the signal with something [TS]

  that doesn't need to be there yeah you [TS]

  cut it out then you get and yen you you [TS]

  cut it out up to the level that you're [TS]

  getting like oh that's a note that [TS]

  belongs there or like in a kick drum [TS]

  you know you you don't want you don't [TS]

  want unlimited low-end [TS]

  because it goes down there and it [TS]

  collects in the corners and it's full of [TS]

  dust and skin flakes oh you have to [TS]

  probably like drain it or get like it's [TS]

  a detail it like you get a q-tip and get [TS]

  all that stand out of there it's it's [TS]

  all it's all down there and it's going a [TS]

  little lower and it just adds garbage to [TS]

  your sound and it's true in our voices [TS]

  right if you have a double a double kick [TS]

  drum you get but I imagine at least [TS]

  twice as much you get it's three times [TS]

  as much but it's an additive quality [TS]

  it's a logarithmic curve that's science [TS]

  okay [TS]

  okay and at the top-end it's also true [TS]

  that way way up high again not stuff [TS]

  that you maybe necessarily can actually [TS]

  hear like pinpoint and say like I hear [TS]

  that but way up there there's all this [TS]

  way way up at the top that is also [TS]

  clouding your sound and and and causing [TS]

  you disarmed me and I think I think the [TS]

  way it's described is that that stuff [TS]

  will harmonically resonate with things [TS]

  that you can hear it affects the sound [TS]

  of the things that you that are audible [TS]

  to you because sound interacts with [TS]

  these with itself right and so high-pass [TS]

  filters and low-pass filters you put on [TS]

  in order to kind of collect this the [TS]

  information that you want which is here [TS]

  in this area where we can hear but you [TS]

  can add weird top-end [TS]

  to things to make the make it sound [TS]

  brighter or make it feel like the roof [TS]

  is taller there's all its sound is this [TS]

  crazy thing where you can you can make [TS]

  the room sound like it's a different [TS]

  room by virtue of how you how much of [TS]

  this strange top-end that you put in it [TS]

  that you that you're not actually [TS]

  consciously here it's such a it's such a [TS]

  dark art I mean I guess this is really [TS]

  obviously somebody who's done this for a [TS]

  living and you know I've done some of [TS]

  this not so much for a living but like [TS]

  she's amazing how many factors are [TS]

  involved I watched a pretty interesting [TS]

  YouTube video the other night does just [TS]

  in passing [TS]

  that was about this guy in I want to say [TS]

  England who has gone to great time [TS]

  expense to essentially recreate every [TS]

  aspect conceivable a 1950s Sun studio [TS]

  type setup and it was and he just even [TS]

  as an amateur it was fascinating to [TS]

  watch I'll find the link for you but [TS]

  basically he's this guy who wanted to [TS]

  say say like he's he's try this is his [TS]

  you know his differentiating factor is [TS]

  that he has like a legit like operating [TS]

  50s it's just all the whole stack is all [TS]

  like you know no later than the 50s [TS]

  technology and what the experiment they [TS]

  did was to see what you could do the [TS]

  best way to do like a Bill Monroe type [TS]

  one mic setup to record a band versus [TS]

  what you can do with two mics and it was [TS]

  so fascinating hear him talk about like [TS]

  I guess you know mics have different [TS]

  dead spots like having to do with the [TS]

  car Toit as you say but basically like [TS]

  how you put the drums up this far away [TS]

  and in this area so that they only get [TS]

  picked up by this part of the mic it was [TS]

  fascinating the what a dark art it was [TS]

  to get that done right unbelievable and [TS]

  what's crazy is that now we we all are [TS]

  listening to stereo music recorded [TS]

  stereo and mix stereo what's a mixed [TS]

  stereo which means that across the [TS]

  stereo field typically what we do is we [TS]

  put the drums on the bass right up the [TS]

  middle which means that they are equally [TS]

  present in both sides of the stereo [TS]

  field because if you put the bass over [TS]

  one side the low end the bass [TS]

  information is so for lack of a better [TS]

  term heavy it's really distracting the [TS]

  Ramones for stoutness like that yeah I [TS]

  think the memory serves the Ramones is [TS]

  drums in the middle [TS]

  I believe bass is all on one left the [TS]

  right channel and then guitars on the [TS]

  other channel yeah it's it just feels [TS]

  miss it feels unbalanced it feels poorly [TS]

  weighted your your your attention is [TS]

  drawn over to the heavy you know bass [TS]

  has gravity and it pulls you it pulls [TS]

  your ear now on on the on the Beatles [TS]

  records of course we've [TS]

  finally made it to the Beatles mm-hmm [TS]

  hello because those records were so [TS]

  pioneering the you know the original [TS]

  mixes of all those Beatles records word [TS]

  mono and when it was time to mix them [TS]

  for stereo which was considered a novel [TS]

  like kind of weird experimental thing [TS]

  that only weirdos would listen to nobody [TS]

  had stereo music equipment at the time [TS]

  you know like stereo home listening [TS]

  equipment they made these stereo mixes [TS]

  and in those cases they did put the [TS]

  drums over here and the bass over there [TS]

  but it was just that we're dealing with [TS]

  George Martin who was genius and somehow [TS]

  those are really fascinating to listen [TS]

  to but but we have we've fallen into [TS]

  these habits in recorded music bass and [TS]

  drums up the middle guitars panned wide [TS]

  this guitar over here that guitar over [TS]

  there and then your vocals right up the [TS]

  middle - but then harmony vocals spread [TS]

  liberally over here and then you're [TS]

  gonna get your little piano on the you [TS]

  know half way over on the right where a [TS]

  little bit of it's on the left but it [TS]

  sounds like it's in the space right yeah [TS]

  and and the worst offenders are those [TS]

  drum drum recordings where they actually [TS]

  record the drums and and mix them [TS]

  stereophonic lee so when the drummer [TS]

  starts to start his fill it starts in [TS]

  your left ear and goes to your right ear [TS]

  it's like a buddy buddy buddy did this [TS]

  on commander thinks aloud to much [TS]

  acclaim well well but but that was a [TS]

  that was a different trick which was [TS]

  that different parts every different [TS]

  spread yeah every one of those was a [TS]

  mono recording of a full drum kit and we [TS]

  just situated those different mono [TS]

  recordings across the stereo field so it [TS]

  wasn't alike but boo-boo-boo-boo-boo in [TS]

  the in that same way of like we have a [TS]

  we have 10 mics on this drum kit and we [TS]

  have each one of them arranged [TS]

  differently in the in the stereo field [TS]

  it was like no his kick drum is [TS]

  happening [TS]

  in six different drum tracks know how [TS]

  you hit I don't know how person's mind [TS]

  could work like that no it's not a mind [TS]

  it's a he did something else it's a you [TS]

  know is that that anyway so Chamberlain [TS]

  was that I want magic but so your your [TS]

  cardioid what that is is it's a [TS]

  microphone it's a it's a directionality [TS]

  of the microphone and if you're talking [TS]

  into just sort of an omnidirectional [TS]

  microphone it's picking up everything [TS]

  all the way around it equally and that [TS]

  would be very distracting if you were [TS]

  sitting talking into a microphone like [TS]

  that because it's a train would go by [TS]

  and it would be just as loud as as your [TS]

  voice that's not good I don't want that [TS]

  right well that's not what you're doing [TS]

  you know your your little your little [TS]

  sure beta 87 is it's very directional I [TS]

  mean if you if you turn the mic away and [TS]

  talk into the side of it it's gonna it's [TS]

  going to pick up your voice not as well [TS]

  right right and then that and your [TS]

  microphone is actually very like [TS]

  proximity effect is very important if [TS]

  you get right up on that microphone it [TS]

  sounds very different than if you're [TS]

  five feet away from it or if you're even [TS]

  two feet away from some right yeah I [TS]

  mean the you know will your chair back a [TS]

  foot and talking to it huh [TS]

  okay here's me back here and we're [TS]

  closer to it wanna know or I can speak [TS]

  quietly and I'm proximity it so yeah [TS]

  it's absolutely you know and so do these [TS]

  things if you use that microphone [TS]

  properly your you know your lips are not [TS]

  going to be that far away from it at a [TS]

  windscreen on it I got a I got this a [TS]

  really cheap windscreen thing that Marco [TS]

  recommended that's going to keep the [TS]

  sibling Sena message on my plosives your [TS]

  plosive sound amazing thank you thank [TS]

  you but the closer you get to that [TS]

  microphone the more the microphone is [TS]

  going to pick up and the better it's [TS]

  going to work but so all this cardioid [TS]

  stuff it's like ah here you're not going [TS]

  to be able I don't think with with uh [TS]

  with [TS]

  adjusting the directionality of your mic [TS]

  to like hyper-cardioid I still think [TS]

  you're going to get that train in the [TS]

  background because people would miss it [TS]

  it's mostly it's a thought experiment [TS]

  because I think their people would miss [TS]

  the train let's be honest I would miss [TS]

  it you could put a weird noise gate on [TS]

  what you're doing but if you're talking [TS]

  the mics gonna be open if you're if [TS]

  you're worried about like the train [TS]

  interrupting your co-hosts you could put [TS]

  a you could put a like a some kind of [TS]

  noise gate on it but I think that would [TS]

  sound weird to you would hear this gate [TS]

  opening and closing unless you had it [TS]

  set really really nicely I think you [TS]

  just I think it's just your sound I was [TS]

  going to make a terrible dad joke about [TS]

  a something a notional Joe pass filter [TS]

  it would be too obscure of a joke to [TS]

  make but I did discover that Joe passes [TS]

  full name is Joseph Anthony Jacobi poss [TS]

  ilaqua [TS]

  oh my goodness isn't that a fantastic [TS]

  name pause ilaqua [TS]

  fossil aqua that is double aqua is [TS]

  drinking water what is posilac well [TS]

  people love it by the way in passing [TS]

  people love it when we guess what words [TS]

  mean in other languages you know really [TS]

  loves that in my experience the Germans [TS]

  the chaco the Germans love it when you [TS]

  guess what things mean like you [TS]

  stipulated we know now we know what ver [TS]

  MOC means it means make war right uh [TS]

  means that well I'm man who knows maybe [TS]

  that's what possible aqua means possible [TS]

  means make war when it made it maybe it [TS]

  means passing water uh-huh pasa la qua [TS]

  yeah pasa la aqua in English I passing [TS]

  I'm passing the water transitively urban [TS]

  dictionary pasal aqua is a baller a [TS]

  person I see I ever been dictionary has [TS]

  gotten real fast and loose about what [TS]

  Allah accept that's a lot Urban [TS]

  Dictionary has turned into you know it's [TS]

  a great resource but it also like I [TS]

  don't know there are 40 entries all [TS]

  saying essentially the same thing but [TS]

  everybody gets just everybody gets to [TS]

  say it in their own way and that's [TS]

  starting to get boring like it happened [TS]

  with twin when the Republican candidate [TS]

  made a remark on Twitter about something [TS]

  being easy easy D what's up easy D and I [TS]

  heard yeah so I know don't email me I [TS]

  don't care but several people very [TS]

  confidently gave very different [TS]

  conclusive readings of what that means [TS]

  some people said it's a sex thing [TS]

  obviously you do yeah I'm going it's an [TS]

  easy D and and I think it's maybe some [TS]

  people think it's like a like a sports [TS]

  term you know you know maybe it's like [TS]

  easy defense or something but you know [TS]

  or dictionary you know I actually [TS]

  haven't looked up easy D on there lately [TS]

  let me see what it says easy D uh-huh [TS]

  easy easy D according to the dictionary [TS]

  a top that's just really nice to say a [TS]

  easy D you see this is a mess this is a [TS]

  mess people see the jackals the Jackals [TS]

  have gotten in here and now they're [TS]

  monkeying around top definition easy to [TS]

  the penis deeply desired by Donald Trump [TS]

  see ya a CD second definition a man that [TS]

  is easy to get sex from as in a woman [TS]

  saying gosh I could really use some easy [TS]

  D right now easy D stands for douchebag [TS]

  president see you guys your students are [TS]

  really drop in here yeah yeah a guy [TS]

  that's easy the thing is the D has got [TS]

  to represent something does it represent [TS]

  Deez Nuts this episode of Roderick on [TS]

  the line is brought to you by Casper if [TS]

  you learn more about Casper right now by [TS]

  visiting Casper comm slash supertrain [TS]

  Casper is a company that is focused on [TS]

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  my wife and I have slept on a Casper [TS]

  mattress for over two years now don't be [TS]

  creepy and in fact we recently bought a [TS]

  Casper with our very own money for our [TS]

  daughter she loves her Casper mattress [TS]

  it is just the best buying a Casper [TS]

  mattress it's so easy and so risk-free [TS]

  it really is so simple Casper offers [TS]

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  decide if it's the mattress that's right [TS]

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  Casper and right now as a listener of [TS]

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  toward any mattress purchase by visiting [TS]

  Casper comm slash supertrain and using [TS]

  the code supertrain at checkout terms [TS]

  and conditions apply thank you so much [TS]

  to Casper for supporting Roderick on the [TS]

  line and all the great shows like what [TS]

  is the D it's represent Deez Nuts [TS]

  if somebody says give me the D yeah what [TS]

  is the D in this case well I don't in [TS]

  the vernacular in the parlance of our [TS]

  time I I'm guessing it means dick Oh [TS]

  dick [TS]

  yeah easy D yeah in my experience dick [TS]

  is a word and I don't I'm not trying to [TS]

  be normative here oh but I think dick is [TS]

  a word that men use more often than [TS]

  women [TS]

  when specifically referring to a penis [TS]

  of note uh in my experience they don't [TS]

  say dick as much whoo girls yeah dick [TS]

  sort of sort [TS]

  boobs and tits type situation mm-hmm [TS]

  mm-hmm I mean don't you feel like [TS]

  there's differences in in in who uses [TS]

  that in a not meant to be offensive way [TS]

  but just like this is how I talk about [TS]

  my body I have never heard a woman used [TS]

  the word boobs I don't think really I I [TS]

  knew some wife heard very few women say [TS]

  tits hmm it's ugly its tits [TS]

  tinnie tinnie word I get with it that [TS]

  would write the word boobs BEW be s [TS]

  that's really cute she would send that [TS]

  in written communication Eve's but I but [TS]

  I don't you know this is the thing right [TS]

  I mean dirty talk how do you how do you [TS]

  affect how do you pull it off even work [TS]

  yeah it's a it's very confusing you [TS]

  don't know you don't know exactly where [TS]

  because it's all very all the words are [TS]

  bad yeah you gotta be careful remarks [TS]

  when you're exploring that kind of thing [TS]

  you need you need to be real careful [TS]

  well careful just because it's because [TS]

  of it is spell breaking like it's it's [TS]

  not it's not that it's not that it's [TS]

  offensive so much it is or offense or [TS]

  not offensive or whatever but you don't [TS]

  want to make the other person laugh when [TS]

  you are being serious right when here [TS]

  laughs my dick and they go and he say [TS]

  what that's something something bad has [TS]

  happened it's gone off the rails you [TS]

  know and if she says like oh I'm sorry [TS]

  the only person that ever used the word [TS]

  dick was my grandfather hmm you know [TS]

  like I I mean I I knew a girl who said [TS]

  one time like her grandmother used the [TS]

  word twat what at just as a just as a [TS]

  descriptor just as you now would say [TS]

  vagina it was just some fucking [TS]

  Appalachian thing where she would be [TS]

  changing like the little girl's diaper [TS]

  and like oh well here wipe her little [TS]

  twat or whatever my goodness really [TS]

  so this girl like that word which Allah [TS]

  of us would feel like was like a pretty [TS]

  tough work pretty edgy to her it was [TS]

  just like a sweet little old comfortable [TS]

  like country grandma word so everybody's [TS]

  got a different everybody's got brings a [TS]

  whole different bunch of suitcases into [TS]

  that mind room and how the hell do you [TS]

  do it you know like for a long time I [TS]

  would never use vagina in that context [TS]

  because it sounded like something that [TS]

  your OBGYN [TS]

  yeah it sounds a little bit kind of [TS]

  collage achill but there but it is the [TS]

  it is the term of art it's true and so I [TS]

  think there are a lot of people that are [TS]

  like listen there's not a lot of good [TS]

  words here so just stick to the you know [TS]

  stick to the main one stick to the road [TS]

  right don't go off into the UM are you I [TS]

  had I was fortunate enough to be seeing [TS]

  a girl in college who had a really cute [TS]

  one and it was so she had a she had a [TS]

  little sister who was one of those [TS]

  miracle babies like she was she was 21 [TS]

  her brother was 19 and then her baby [TS]

  sister was two yeah yeah yes her mom got [TS]

  pregnant like 42 like out of nowhere you [TS]

  imagine the surprise surprise guess what [TS]

  a few things around yeah you thought you [TS]

  were gonna go live on a cruise ship [TS]

  didn't you and and her her mother would [TS]

  when referring to her her swimsuit area [TS]

  downstairs we'll call it all bottom and [TS]

  I still think that's really cute yeah [TS]

  but that's you don't want it you don't [TS]

  want to be interacting with a girl [TS]

  bottom I think it's sweet unless it's a [TS]

  babble this is the thing this is the [TS]

  thing boy bottoms I mean it in a fraught [TS]

  power exchange no no I gotta get a girl [TS]

  bottom there's also a bottom that's also [TS]

  in as part of the mix down there like an [TS]

  actual bottom hang on what yeah you're [TS]

  right the beep the UH the the word so [TS]

  for a while I was like look the word [TS]

  pussy [TS]

  is it's a nice word it's a sweet word it [TS]

  means like a kitty cat yeah it's like a [TS]

  sweet little it's it's so much better [TS]

  than the other words can I just at least [TS]

  eliminate the confusion in my own [TS]

  universe by just using that word we'll [TS]

  just that's it's a fine word I don't [TS]

  mean anything bad by it it's just like [TS]

  it just seems sweeter and I'd like to [TS]

  refer to that part of your body let's [TS]

  say I'm saying to someone as an [TS]

  introduction like hey now that we're [TS]

  getting close let's work on so what's [TS]

  the secondary yeah um and I encountered [TS]

  quite a bit of uh like about the word [TS]

  pussy which seemed very sweet but but at [TS]

  least to people I know it's like sounds [TS]

  it's cringy and I'm like at the same [TS]

  time it is a word that many women I know [TS]

  would use to privately refer to their [TS]

  girl bottom mmm-hmm I'd say more so than [TS]

  twat well I don't think anybody use this [TS]

  twat unless you're a policeman yeah [TS]

  clean out our twats so get so many [TS]

  letters from what from the from the [TS]

  McElroy brothers you know not all West [TS]

  Virginians ha ha but you know like I'd I [TS]

  can't use the word dick with a straight [TS]

  face because it just I don't know it [TS]

  passed on to the other so that's like [TS]

  that's like a word ass like it that's [TS]

  now a term of art dick I mean it's [TS]

  somebody who behaves like a dick oh I [TS]

  see what you're saying you know well [TS]

  don't be an ass I use that I use it that [TS]

  way but has come a long way but but bu [TS]

  TT mm-hmm that's another very tricky [TS]

  thing because everybody thinks about [TS]

  their butt right everybody's got a thing [TS]

  some thoughts about their own butt yeah [TS]

  and it's unclear who wants what aspect [TS]

  of their butt well who wants [TS]

  attention call - what aspect of their [TS]

  own but like oh I'm so glad you brought [TS]

  this up yeah I really really am because [TS]

  I think I think you can run into some [TS]

  real danger zones if you're not fairly [TS]

  specific about what you mean what we [TS]

  talk about when we talk about butts I [TS]

  think you can say you have a nice butt [TS]

  which in that case might mean that the [TS]

  shape of your posterior looks good in [TS]

  pants [TS]

  right I mean I think everyone at a base [TS]

  level wants to hear that they have a [TS]

  nice butt oh yeah yeah if you're getting [TS]

  intimate with somebody to say just [TS]

  casually sometime like not you know like [TS]

  you can say it in the in the boudoir but [TS]

  even if you're just like out on the town [TS]

  and you've been dating for a while you [TS]

  know to lean over and say like you know [TS]

  what you've got a really nice butt that [TS]

  will I think 40 years later that will [TS]

  still be in their mind room that's a [TS]

  really nice thing you said one time my [TS]

  favorite mind room in their mind house [TS]

  yeah that is a that's a freaking oil [TS]

  painting over the fireplace of their [TS]

  mind house right like my other once said [TS]

  that you know just sort of like off hand [TS]

  you have a really nice butt I got a [TS]

  compliment [TS]

  along those lines having to do with with [TS]

  the with the swimsuit area I got a [TS]

  compliment in 1986 that I still think [TS]

  about yeah isn't that nice it's just [TS]

  you're right I know well paying in my [TS]

  mind house it was I was like what would [TS]

  have put a nice thing to say and she [TS]

  said in a way that didn't feel forced it [TS]

  was very it seemed like she she offered [TS]

  it freely and of her own accord just in [TS]

  passing and I still think about that was [TS]

  those a long time ago that's what 30 [TS]

  years ago yeah I mean that's the key I [TS]

  was walking with my girlfriend one time [TS]

  in a group of guys a group of all my [TS]

  friends and we're kind of bringing up [TS]

  the rear if you will and and we're on [TS]

  the way down to the bar we're going to [TS]

  the NAR Tavern and there's you know six [TS]

  guys ahead of us and we're walking along [TS]

  and she just sort of casually under her [TS]

  breath says you know like six guys I'm [TS]

  not a single good but [TS]

  and I was like whoa it had not occurred [TS]

  to me that that she was looking at you [TS]

  know and she was casual remark yeah but [TS]

  I looked ahead and I was like okay [TS]

  alright so looking at these six butts [TS]

  none of them are good okay okay [TS]

  memorize this memorize these butts and [TS]

  understand that these do not these are [TS]

  not goodbye so you went into Terminator [TS]

  heads-up mode at this point like you're [TS]

  just gathering information about this [TS]

  new environment that you would later use [TS]

  you're like an AI John you're gay I know [TS]

  this this corpus of information to have [TS]

  to apply in other circumstances looking [TS]

  at these six guys ahead of us I would [TS]

  have made a lot of assessments right [TS]

  like oh this is a bunch of that you know [TS]

  like this is a bunch of ding-a-lings or [TS]

  none of these guys has any fashion sense [TS]

  or you know whatever look like a bunch [TS]

  of soccer players or whatever but I [TS]

  would not have said that's gotta be up [TS]

  there with is this your first day soccer [TS]

  play what are you a bunch of soccer [TS]

  buddy hey hey soccer player keep driving [TS]

  but once you put a soccer on your head [TS]

  and play but I but now yeah she had [TS]

  given me this whole new field of [TS]

  information to consider which was six [TS]

  guys not a nice button in the bunch and [TS]

  you know and of course the next nation [TS]

  rich sentence yeah and here are levels [TS]

  I'm the seventh guy right and she's [TS]

  walking next to me she if I was up there [TS]

  with those soccer players would she be [TS]

  like there's one nice but in the group [TS]

  or what it were or would there be sort [TS]

  of a blanket like I mean it and at a [TS]

  certain point if you're in if you're in [TS]

  a crowd of six guys with not a nice but [TS]

  how nice does your bud have to be to [TS]

  stand out yeah yeah you know like is if [TS]

  your butt is being assessed in all by [TS]

  itself it might be like yeah it's a nice [TS]

  butt huh [TS]

  but if you're in a group of bad butts [TS]

  yeah oh you get lumped in with them [TS]

  interesting okay yeah so so uh so that's [TS]

  the type of thing like the but if you go [TS]

  any deeper into [TS]

  a into like what you like about [TS]

  someone's but it gets tricky right away [TS]

  boy does it ever oh there's just levels [TS]

  and levels it's it's a minefield the but [TS]

  it's really tricky and particularly now [TS]

  like the the the fashion for the [TS]

  millenniums is these high-waisted jeans [TS]

  that we wore those were the fashion when [TS]

  I was in high school too and they are [TS]

  not the most becoming style because they [TS]

  look really good on someone who has a [TS]

  very pear-shaped bottom but they don't [TS]

  really look good on everybody and [TS]

  because yet because they're designed for [TS]

  like a narrow waist and a sort of very [TS]

  curvy you know like if they look they're [TS]

  meant to look like a pair mm-hmm [TS]

  exaggerated that particular curve do you [TS]

  think they go up high like could it be [TS]

  to like cover up a lower back tattoo or [TS]

  do you think it's mostly to provide a [TS]

  certain shape a suggestion of shape good [TS]

  question I find them to be in the main [TS]

  create less shape than them other pairs [TS]

  of jeans because it in the in the early [TS]

  2000s the late nineties in the early [TS]

  2000s the gene technology I think really [TS]

  focused your attention strictly on the [TS]

  butt so that your lower back was not [TS]

  engaged and your you know like your even [TS]

  your your I mean I guess your your [TS]

  thighs are engaged in a sort of general [TS]

  but frame mmm-hmm this part the lamb is [TS]

  the continuum of the synecdoche or [TS]

  metonymy but there's there's a whole lot [TS]

  of pieces and parts to talk about here [TS]

  so much going on uh-huh but if you if [TS]

  the if the jeans were focused strictly [TS]

  on making the butt seem high and tight [TS]

  which I think was the that was the [TS]

  version of like seven jeans or whatever [TS]

  that was that 90s 2000s late 90s early [TS]

  2000s like gene technology you could [TS]

  have a narrow waist or why [TS]

  waste you could have a you could be [TS]

  hourglass-shaped or you could be square [TS]

  and none of that was being the gene was [TS]

  not interacting with the rest of your [TS]

  body really it was just focused on [TS]

  making your bottom look good [TS]

  you're just the just the bottom and so [TS]

  those genes were very successful and I [TS]

  think they're very popular with people [TS]

  my generation because we'd been [TS]

  struggling always struggling to figure [TS]

  out how to make your bottom look good [TS]

  and making the maybe classic error of [TS]

  thinking that your bottom starts up [TS]

  under your arm and how do I make my [TS]

  bottom look good when I don't have a [TS]

  waist or how do I make my bottom look [TS]

  good when I have a high waist or you [TS]

  know and all this stuff and it was just [TS]

  like oh no these jeans are low waisted [TS]

  so they're not trying to be up in your [TS]

  back and they just start thinking about [TS]

  like how to make your bottom well so now [TS]

  we're into these high-waisted jeans and [TS]

  the high-waisted jeans are just by their [TS]

  very nature they are including your back [TS]

  in your bottom hmm there including waist [TS]

  in your bottom and they're a lot there's [TS]

  now there's a lot more going on and it's [TS]

  part of them it's part of normcore I [TS]

  feel like I said still a thing well I [TS]

  just feel like in general the [TS]

  millenniums are less fashion uh they're [TS]

  I mean they they fashion still matters [TS]

  but they're let they less give a damn [TS]

  you know I just I feel like they're a [TS]

  lot more free with you know you rep [TS]

  whatever you want to rep I agree I think [TS]

  there's a lot to admire about the [TS]

  millenniums mm but my kids they don't [TS]

  Jeff as they say they don't give an F [TS]

  but the high waist Regina I think is a [TS]

  is an error if I can if I can just be [TS]

  like a ghost of Christmas past here [TS]

  mm-hmm you don't if if you have a choice [TS]

  just leave it unless you are unless you [TS]

  really know for a fact that you are one [TS]

  of the rare rare individuals you know [TS]

  and let in the nineteen seventies you [TS]

  have those Gloria Vanderbilt jeans and [TS]

  they look bad on everybody except for [TS]

  one out of a thousand people if you're [TS]

  one of if you know for a fact you're one [TS]

  of those [TS]

  like yes you can wear anything yes but [TS]

  just in general you're not going to find [TS]

  happiness I don't think in high-waisted [TS]

  jeans I just don't think it's there but [TS]

  you know like for instance if you if you [TS]

  are somebody who's lette if you ever [TS]

  were to say to somebody like you've got [TS]

  a really big but I feel like you just [TS]

  pulled the pin out of a grenade and [TS]

  you're holding it in your hand and [TS]

  you're also holding with your other hand [TS]

  you're holding on to the edge of a clip [TS]

  and you're and your feet are not your [TS]

  feet are just swinging the air if you oh [TS]

  but the grenade is also tied to a string [TS]

  which is tied around your neck so if you [TS]

  let go the grenade I was wondering how [TS]

  you pull out the pin if you only have [TS]

  one hand do the guy like a sergeant in a [TS]

  movie that's right that's right you [TS]

  pulled it out pulled out the pin and now [TS]

  you're holding the grenade if you let go [TS]

  of it in order to grab the cliff wall [TS]

  okay then you've got a live grenade tied [TS]

  around your neck [TS]

  what if you're holding on to the cliff [TS]

  by the grenade I don't think you can how [TS]

  do you hold on to a cliff with the [TS]

  grenade but I've never been in the [TS]

  situation about saying it would really [TS]

  work for the narratives that maybe maybe [TS]

  it's just one little one little bit that [TS]

  got stuck on there maybe it's on a root [TS]

  right you know I'm saying but your your [TS]

  only way your only survival is going to [TS]

  be keep holding the grenade that's a lot [TS]

  like that's a lot like talking about [TS]

  somebody's but I see you went a [TS]

  different direction with it I was going [TS]

  in the like year there's no way out here [TS]

  now I see I see but you were you were [TS]

  saying like you're now you're [TS]

  permanently lodged on the side of this [TS]

  when the clip is made of grenades hold [TS]

  it in head maybe if you zoom out far [TS]

  enough you realize that the whole cliff [TS]

  is a grenade [TS]

  maybe the hole maybe the world is [TS]

  exhibit is a universe it's not so [TS]

  different than like the win are you [TS]

  expecting gasps oh that's bad I mean you [TS]

  know that the pad the powder that runs [TS]

  do all of this I think is like before [TS]

  you open your big mouth make sure you [TS]

  understand what the play is right [TS]

  what yeah I mean I have I have had [TS]

  success with the had success with the [TS]

  listen within the larger context you [TS]

  have a very small but but within the [TS]

  context of small buts you have a nice [TS]

  big putt you understand yeah it's nice [TS]

  that you know that did PowerPoint if you [TS]

  can get you things you can't explain it [TS]

  but if you can create an atmosphere [TS]

  where you are able to say you have a big [TS]

  butt but it's within the context of [TS]

  being of having like a very small but oh [TS]

  yeah but I mean couldn't you go with [TS]

  something I don't know well see it [TS]

  depends on what you're trying to [TS]

  embarrass well like comically small not [TS]

  like this abling Lisa yeah like you are [TS]

  we have you a small bubble within that [TS]

  context it's pretty large [TS]

  right that was just being a baffling [TS]

  depending on what you're trying to [TS]

  accomplish [TS]

  like if part of what you're trying to [TS]

  accomplish is to just pay a pay a [TS]

  compliment and walk away which could I [TS]

  kill a stranger I don't think you can [TS]

  refer to their butt at all just talking [TS]

  about people's bodies is dangerous in [TS]

  the Big Dance I'm talking strictly [TS]

  within the context of somebody that you [TS]

  are romantically involved in because you [TS]

  should not be commenting on the body of [TS]

  anybody else yeah unless you are just [TS]

  unless you are strictly like in a [TS]

  situation where you are either naked [TS]

  with them or on your way to being naked [TS]

  with them yeah and in that case and it [TS]

  should in that case I think it should [TS]

  always be only complimentary that's you [TS]

  know until it's like high-waisted jeans [TS]

  unless you have a reason I would stick [TS]

  with complimentary oh there's no I don't [TS]

  think there's any way you can make a [TS]

  remark about someone else's body that [TS]

  you are sexually gay is that supposed to [TS]

  be like that yeah that's good in your [TS]

  considered there's so many ways that you [TS]

  can offer someone constructive criticism [TS]

  but not in their not in their body now [TS]

  while they're literally naked one of the [TS]

  oil paintings in my uh in my mind house [TS]

  which is not over the fireplace it's one [TS]

  of those oil paintings that you're like [TS]

  do I put this in a bathroom where do I [TS]

  put this bat what do I put this oil [TS]

  painting but but a girl at college said [TS]

  to me it's one of these great [TS]

  compliments you have a great body if you [TS]

  just did a few sit-ups oh wow that's and [TS]

  I was like I have a great body thank you [TS]

  if I just did a few sit-ups which I know [TS]

  already I knew that I knew that I should [TS]

  do some sit-ups [TS]

  and ah thank you [TS]

  you know like occasion in the [TS]

  destructive she meant it [TS]

  she was a she but she yeah it sounds [TS]

  like consolation like she's consoling [TS]

  you like hey fuck up little guy oh no no [TS]

  it wasn't that it was that she was [TS]

  trying to make me you know like like [TS]

  I've dated a lot of she's like Nixon you [TS]

  that's right who are trying to shape me [TS]

  into they love me [TS]

  ninety percent of Who I am is exactly [TS]

  what they want [TS]

  John John a project sent yeah that's [TS]

  right it's the ten percent that's a [TS]

  project that's very exciting to them and [TS]

  in her case the ten percent was she was [TS]

  just going to shape my body a little bit [TS]

  just craft it a little bit so that it [TS]

  was more to her liking and that involved [TS]

  a little bit of sit-ups now at 23 I had [TS]

  a dad bod and at 48 I haven't really [TS]

  much exactly the same dad Bob so in that [TS]

  sense I mean I'm not one of those 48 [TS]

  year olds that still has a flat stomach [TS]

  but it's because I never had a flat [TS]

  stomach that single v in my life it's [TS]

  just you doing you yeah that's right I'm [TS]

  doing I think can I tell somebody I [TS]

  think you can tell somebody that they [TS]

  have a cute butt okay again they'd [TS]

  better be somebody you're dating I do [TS]

  not think you can say that to someone on [TS]

  the bus or so they don't talk about [TS]

  bodies at all John with anybody ever [TS]

  oh dude this is all just speculative I [TS]

  could not imagine saying any of these [TS]

  words to people to like the to the clear [TS]

  secretary to my second at your office [TS]

  look Janice no Janice committed which [TS]

  will give me a twirl [TS]

  haha working nine to five yep cut about [TS]

  you have kind of a big ass Janice Irene [TS]

  was in the context of having a small I [TS]

  think I'm a big one get back to that [TS]

  dictation if someone said to me you have [TS]

  a cute butt and and I have heard it over [TS]

  the years but not and that's what are [TS]

  you to work that in I had a feeling that [TS]

  was coming that's one of your smaller [TS]

  oil paintings but not enough times that [TS]

  I believe it you know what I mean like [TS]

  you know something was said universally [TS]

  I would be like gee that's one of the [TS]

  things that I know of [TS]

  myself like universally women have said [TS]

  that I have good legs [TS]

  everyone is that right yeah and so I [TS]

  believe it uh-huh because because [TS]

  unbidden yeah it's just one of those [TS]

  offhand comments like you know what [TS]

  you're good legs [TS]

  I heard back I feel like you could think [TS]

  about you can think about your life and [TS]

  what to believe in your life a little [TS]

  bit like like my daughter was recently [TS]

  looking at some of my old yearbooks and [TS]

  from like like junior high and so many [TS]

  of the things people wrote in my [TS]

  yearbook are nearly identical and taken [TS]

  as a whole they form a certain truth [TS]

  that I could I could choose today sweet [TS]

  well I could choose not we'll see stay [TS]

  sweet even that you get enough of those [TS]

  that mean something like this that's not [TS]

  people filling up a whole page with that [TS]

  time we made out at the roller rink [TS]

  most of them many of them are uh you're [TS]

  you're weird but cool you're weird but [TS]

  cool you're weird but nice you're weird [TS]

  but smart and the thing is that the [TS]

  consistency to too many of these remarks [TS]

  is that I am weird [TS]

  that is the characteristic if you were [TS]

  to put these into Excel what would [TS]

  emerge is that in when I was 14 I was [TS]

  weird and everyone said so right so in [TS]

  that case I feel like that is whether I [TS]

  like that or not or feel that's [TS]

  distinctive or not the point is that's [TS]

  the people speaking I heard that enough [TS]

  noun open set in there you know and you [TS]

  have sexy legs that was never an item [TS]

  touch like right I could choose that [TS]

  again I don't know if it's a synecdoche [TS]

  arm autonomy or making things up but I [TS]

  could just choose to believe that about [TS]

  myself but I have not heard that often [TS]

  enough that I think it's meaningful but [TS]

  you have you've heard about your legs if [TS]

  you look at my yearbook I think the I [TS]

  think what you would put together over [TS]

  the overall the comments it would be you [TS]

  were a bastard to me for four years but [TS]

  for some reason everyone likes you still [TS]

  good luck and this continues now on [TS]

  Facebook right don't get remarks from [TS]

  people I think I hear still such an [TS]

  asshole yeah you were absolutely [TS]

  terrible to me but for some reason I [TS]

  could never hate you [TS]

  the [TS]

  this is very confusing I hope I never [TS]

  see you again but I also wish you well [TS]

  um can forget that girl our license [TS]

  plate back yeah I did we're friends now [TS]

  um I feel like when I first met you and [TS]

  when I would look at pictures of you [TS]

  particularly [TS]

  particularly [TS]

  early pictures of you when you were in [TS]

  college I my feeling was that Merlin man [TS]

  was a very handsome guy and I have heard [TS]

  several my friends have said this i [TS]

  don't i don't see it i think i think [TS]

  yeah i appreciate you saying that that [TS]

  was your impression at the time uh well [TS]

  you know the thing is you had feel like [TS]

  you've aged well you have a kind of but [TS]

  you know you have aged into a very like [TS]

  appropriately interesting looking middle [TS]

  aged man it's tough that you know you [TS]

  have not fallen apart as well you know [TS]

  there's always taught you like become [TS]

  him more intensely I'm coming you I'm if [TS]

  I were casting a catalog yeah a modeling [TS]

  session like you'd be one of the type of [TS]

  people that I would think like could [TS]

  sell sell things still just with your [TS]

  face Wow and that's not you know a lot [TS]

  of people like there they face falls [TS]

  apart um and it's just it's just that [TS]

  God it's just what God chooses you know [TS]

  it's not like it's not that for any for [TS]

  any particular reason but I always felt [TS]

  like you were handsome and did not [TS]

  believe it did not know it or believe it [TS]

  such that you never really capitalized [TS]

  on your handsomeness you say anything is [TS]

  this your is this your setup statement [TS]

  for me like I could have been [TS]

  good-looking if I like clean myself up a [TS]

  little bit probably no no no it wasn't [TS]

  that at all because you know I'll I I [TS]

  think dirty is handsome no it was that [TS]

  you didn't believe that you were [TS]

  handsome so you never exploited it he [TS]

  never went into a situation where you [TS]

  where you please said well I'm handsome [TS]

  that's all I'm gonna I'm gonna pull this [TS]

  off because I'm handsome right yeah you [TS]

  always you always carried yourself as [TS]

  though the last thing you were the last [TS]

  thing you believed was that you were [TS]

  handsome or at least it wasn't like a [TS]

  primary that's a that's a good [TS]

  conclusion yeah yeah yeah yeah I think [TS]

  for me I did not think I was handsome it [TS]

  was clear I wasn't I was because I was [TS]

  under I was undercooked [TS]

  but at a certain point like a scallop I [TS]

  did but at a certain point I think I [TS]

  grew into my looks enough that now I [TS]

  bamboozled people because I have [TS]

  dramatic yeah charismatic right which is [TS]

  you know which is this which is another [TS]

  kind of awful comment now a really [TS]

  really nice personality [TS]

  yeah body room clothes good cook actly [TS]

  exactly this is the thing type of thing [TS]

  that my friend's parents said to me in [TS]

  high school you know you're gonna grow [TS]

  into your looks you're you're you're [TS]

  very handsome ah in the sense that it as [TS]

  an adult you will be handsome the things [TS]

  people say to other people yeah where [TS]

  you're just like yeah I was trying to be [TS]

  helper for I would have preferred to be [TS]

  like cute in high school but I guess [TS]

  that wasn't what that wasn't my fate [TS]

  like I was so we played a show the other [TS]

  day and we got this three guys from my [TS]

  high school showed up and you know three [TS]

  guys that had never seen me play [TS]

  actually one guy wasn't from my high [TS]

  school he was from my ski team but he [TS]

  was you know within Anchorage [TS]

  if you were on the ski team by which I [TS]

  mean initially the Alyeska mighty mites [TS]

  and then ultimately graduate to the [TS]

  Alyeska junior racers it was not a ski [TS]

  team in the sense that we it wasn't like [TS]

  a high school ski team where you [TS]

  competed against other ski teams it was [TS]

  a ski Kolob a ski culture where we you [TS]

  competed against one another and then [TS]

  the great ones went on to compete [TS]

  nationally and then internationally it [TS]

  was like it was like a like a like a [TS]

  farm club for the for the world and I [TS]

  think now in Alaska the high schools [TS]

  have ski team downhill ski teams I'm [TS]

  talking about they always had [TS]

  cross-country teams that competed [TS]

  against each other but now I think they [TS]

  have downhill teams and it might be a [TS]

  club sport like a like a what intramural [TS]

  sport yeah but so one of the guys from [TS]

  the ski team who went to a different [TS]

  high school but he was part of our [TS]

  larger gang because he because we were [TS]

  all skiers together [TS]

  so these three guys came to my came to [TS]

  my my rock show and the in particular [TS]

  the one that I knew from ski club that [TS]

  was not from my high school he looks [TS]

  exactly the same he looks the same as he [TS]

  did when he was 16 and we're reaching an [TS]

  age where that that's strange now when [TS]

  that happens it's it's but I mean he [TS]

  looks like a man he doesn't he's not [TS]

  like he doesn't have a like a like a [TS]

  sweet face or something he looks like a [TS]

  full-grown adult yeah but he looks he [TS]

  looks the same he would be instantly [TS]

  identifiable as himself in a way that a [TS]

  lot of people my age aren't a lot of [TS]

  people I see that are my age and I'm [TS]

  like I know you don't I and they're like [TS]

  yes we know each other very well and [TS]

  then I'm like ah it's you hi you know [TS]

  like they've changed considerably he [TS]

  just looked exactly like himself and [TS]

  what's amazing is that of everybody I [TS]

  know he has created exactly the Alaska [TS]

  life he's a doctor and I grew up in a [TS]

  neighborhood that was close to the [TS]

  hospital in the college and most of my [TS]

  friends parents were doctors and a lot [TS]

  of my friends went on to become doctors [TS]

  but they all moved out of Alaska right [TS]

  so there a doctor here there a doctor [TS]

  there their doctor there and they're [TS]

  living some other doctor life some [TS]

  Bellingham doctor life or some you know [TS]

  California doctor life but he's a doctor [TS]

  he has an airplane which he uses all the [TS]

  time ski plane in the winter and a flow [TS]

  plane in the summer which is very Alaska [TS]

  thing to do and he uses that airplane [TS]

  both to or I'm sorry he uses it to hunt [TS]

  mm-hmm and so he'll post pictures on [TS]

  facebook of like we just went out and [TS]

  shot this giant elk or this mountain [TS]

  sheep or whatever that is that they're [TS]

  they're just out like hunting as part of [TS]

  one of the things that they do as [TS]

  Alaskans or they fly in somewhere and [TS]

  catch giant king salmon [TS]

  they they also put skis on it and fly [TS]

  way up on the side of mountains and [TS]

  everybody jumps out and you know and my [TS]

  friend then flies the airplane down to [TS]

  the bottom of the mountain and everybody [TS]

  skis down the mountain and then gets [TS]

  back in the airplane and fly back up and [TS]

  land on the glacier and do it again like [TS]

  this is the life that he is providing [TS]

  for his children his teenage kids are [TS]

  like let's go skiing dad and they get in [TS]

  the airplane and they fly up and land on [TS]

  the glacier and ski down like it's a [TS]

  it's so Alaskan it just blows me away [TS]

  how completely successfully he has [TS]

  created this thing that seems almost [TS]

  almost fantastical to me now having [TS]

  lived in Seattle as long as I have but [TS]

  was exactly kind of what that was the [TS]

  environment I grew up in right your [TS]

  friend's dad had a plane he flew you up [TS]

  to their lake cabin and then you went [TS]

  waterskiing and then he would fly you up [TS]

  on the mountain and drop him it's just [TS]

  like what kind of universe okay somebody [TS]

  sent me a link to a video the other day [TS]

  about this young woman who's like a [TS]

  she's a young mother now and she'd been [TS]

  an Alpine guide on Mount McKinley for [TS]

  many many years and then after she had [TS]

  her daughter she felt like being an [TS]

  Alpina sk's was no longer I know was no [TS]

  longer a safe job because she had a she [TS]

  had a little daughter and every time you [TS]

  go up on the mountain you risk dying [TS]

  it's just the nature of going up on the [TS]

  mountain the mountain decides whether [TS]

  you get down or not and so up until that [TS]

  point she'd been living a life where [TS]

  every time you know her job was to go up [TS]

  on the side of the mountain and try to [TS]

  keep these people that are paying her [TS]

  from dying and also as a you know as a [TS]

  corollary to that try to keep herself [TS]

  from dying but now she's a mom and that [TS]

  doesn't feel right so she decided that [TS]

  she was going to transfer her energy [TS]

  into [TS]

  becoming a bush pilot to fly the [TS]

  climbers up and land them on the [TS]

  mountain and her description of it why [TS]

  it's way better is like well every night [TS]

  I get to come home and sleep in my own [TS]

  bed every morning I get to be up at [TS]

  14,000 feet on the side of this mountain [TS]

  why uh you know like dropping climbers [TS]

  off up there and then I get to fly home [TS]

  and go to bed in my little house in [TS]

  Talkeetna and I was watching this and [TS]

  just like Jesus this is this is totally [TS]

  another version of this same weird [TS]

  Alaskan life but when I was a kid it was [TS]

  always the grown-ups doing it now I'm [TS]

  watching this video this to me she still [TS]

  reads as a young woman right she's [TS]

  younger than I am she's like a young [TS]

  mother and she and she's like this - [TS]

  Havilland beaver and land hit on the [TS]

  side of the freaking mountain and she's [TS]

  flying with her little daughter it's [TS]

  super cute like - there's a shot where [TS]

  they're in a they're in a little cub and [TS]

  they're taking off and her little [TS]

  four-year-old is in the backseat like [TS]

  the Sun is in my eyes and one of the [TS]

  things about being in an airplane is [TS]

  that uh there aren't in a small plane [TS]

  that you don't have window shades mm-hmm [TS]

  you want a lot of windows because you [TS]

  want to be able to look out and make [TS]

  sure you're not gonna fly into anything [TS]

  and the way that you're like just by the [TS]

  nature of it you're up in the sky [TS]

  there's no trees shading you and the Sun [TS]

  can come into a little plane and it's [TS]

  just really blinding my dad used to fly [TS]

  with two sets of sunglasses he would [TS]

  have his sunglasses on and then it would [TS]

  then the Sun would just be like adding [TS]

  put another part another parable asshole [TS]

  double sunglass anyway so I'm watching [TS]

  this video I'm just like fucking ah [TS]

  Alaska there's a part of me that is [TS]

  there's a part of me that really feels [TS]

  like I have done a poor job because I'm [TS]

  not a bush pilot it's it's the weirdest [TS]

  thing I didn't expected that that's [TS]

  that's very interesting yeah it just [TS]

  feels weird it feels weird to watch [TS]

  those videos would be like ah my pals [TS]

  are up there just you know fly [TS]

  to get a burger in talkeetna what's [TS]

  gonna be very muscular it sounds like a [TS]

  very muscular lifestyle it doesn't feel [TS]

  like that to them because they they feel [TS]

  like the plane is a necessary tool it's [TS]

  just like learning to drive a car if you [TS]

  want to get up there where things are [TS]

  interesting then that's what you need [TS]

  and of course you want to get up where [TS]

  things are interesting because once [TS]

  you've skied up in the glacier why do [TS]

  you want to go ride the chairlift I mean [TS]

  the only reason you ride the chairlift [TS]

  is because you do that Tuesdays [TS]

  Wednesdays and Thursdays but if you have [TS]

  all day why not fire the plane up and go [TS]

  skip the real pal pal you go right I [TS]

  could have known it's it's so utterly [TS]

  foreign to me I mean all these different [TS]

  modes of transportation and leaving the [TS]

  house so often it's all very very [TS]

  foreign to me [TS]

  yeah leaving the house with the [TS]

  expectation that all day long you're [TS]

  going to be putting in effort it's not [TS]

  easy to get the plane going and get it [TS]

  up into the and fly up into the [TS]

  mountains like it's tough I just sort [TS]

  was so much danger my gosh danger [TS]

  okay so let's explore this then you so [TS]

  you feel like you she maybe should have [TS]

  been a bush pilot no because if I had [TS]

  wanted to be a bush pilot I guy [TS]

  absolutely could have you know I I stood [TS]

  at the I stood at the crossroads I [TS]

  looked at the the road of bending off [TS]

  into the wood and then took the other as [TS]

  just as fair uh I was perfectly [TS]

  positioned to be a bush pilot and I just [TS]

  felt like oh yeah or I could go ride [TS]

  freight trains yeah and the riding [TS]

  freight trains felt more interesting [TS]

  because being a bush pilot felt somewhat [TS]

  men mundane just like going to medical [TS]

  school did huh and then having gone and [TS]

  ridden freight trains for a couple of [TS]

  years then I followed then I went where [TS]

  the day took me and ended up where I am [TS]

  because I you know [TS]

  Merlin I went where the day took me you [TS]

  went with three took you yeah I never [TS]

  had a plan I don't know if you did did [TS]

  you have a plan uh I mean I had I had [TS]

  notions but I never had a plan but I [TS]

  think the day the day is a very [TS]

  important unit for you [TS]

  yeah the day the day is there's [TS]

  important patterns to the day in your [TS]

  life things like what is the uniform of [TS]

  the day right you've gotten these dated [TS]

  like reflect like you know might be how [TS]

  you slept last night like what we know [TS]

  where you have to be the day seems I'm [TS]

  not saying you think merely in days but [TS]

  the day is a very significant uh [TS]

  quantity of time for you yeah yeah I [TS]

  approach each day as though it is a new [TS]

  well yeah each day is new I didn't so [TS]

  for instance yesterday my plan for today [TS]

  was to do this podcast with you that was [TS]

  the thing that was the tentpole yeah for [TS]

  the first that was the reason I was [TS]

  going to get up in the morning was to do [TS]

  this podcast and then after this I [TS]

  immediately had immediately my notion of [TS]

  the rest of the day became very vague it [TS]

  was like I got to get up I got up to the [TS]

  podcast with Merlin now after I'm done [TS]

  doing the podcast with Merlin do I get [TS]

  dressed well we'll figure that out when [TS]

  we get there mmm does that govern partly [TS]

  by like what are you getting dressed for [TS]

  yeah that's gonna have Lee I mean are [TS]

  you gonna wear like something we can go [TS]

  out into the bush arm you know do I even [TS]

  need to if I don't need to get dressed [TS]

  why go through the whole rigmarole [TS]

  that's true [TS]

  am I gonna play guitar tomorrow could be [TS]

  now - that's a pretty good idea put on [TS]

  your guitar pants baby no no you don't [TS]

  need pants for guitar [TS]

  that's a sanitary you put a napkin or [TS]

  something the thing is I'm not gonna [TS]

  that guitar it's not like I'm gonna hand [TS]

  it to somebody else [TS]

  sometime and be like here play my play [TS]

  the guitar that I was playing by me my [TS]

  my nakedness but yeah but I do feel like [TS]

  a lot of people in life had not just [TS]

  like more of a plan than I did [TS]

  that they had a real plan that they had [TS]

  a plan this is why I was that I was [TS]

  trying to differentiate between like [TS]

  having a guess or a reckon there are [TS]

  people who really had a plan and buy [TS]

  which is like we're talking about here [TS]

  like you're the red hair girl in my [TS]

  going to you know medical school and [TS]

  stuff people where there are [TS]

  dependencies to what you're going to do [TS]

  there's time commitment [TS]

  there is stick-to-itiveness and grit and [TS]

  with those kinds of people a funny side [TS]

  effect is that those are often the kind [TS]

  of people that if the plan goes wrong [TS]

  they very quickly have another plan [TS]

  they're ready to stick to I think there [TS]

  are plan people but butcher land people [TS]

  are executing on the plan not merely [TS]

  ruminating about the plan that's the [TS]

  difference between them and me I feel [TS]

  like the danger for me of a plan was [TS]

  always that well the you know the plan [TS]

  can go sideways right away so like you [TS]

  know if you want to make God laugh right [TS]

  Woody Allen's famous lines you want to [TS]

  make God laugh tell him your plans it's [TS]

  a pretty good assessment of where I come [TS]

  from although you have to look at Woody [TS]

  Allen's accomplishments and say like [TS]

  well you had a plan yeah or at least had [TS]

  multiple plans every time he started a [TS]

  new film it must have been a new plan [TS]

  but I am I am maybe one of the more [TS]

  planless and and I come up against [TS]

  people with a plan all the time people [TS]

  ask me questions that suggest that they [TS]

  think that I had a plan or that I have [TS]

  one now not sorry yes the simplest [TS]

  question that people ask you is like [TS]

  well what do you want and it presumes [TS]

  that I really want anything or that I [TS]

  have a particular interest in one or [TS]

  another outcome and that is a that's a [TS]

  weird presupposition because if today I [TS]

  followed the day where it took me and it [TS]

  ended up that by the end of the day [TS]

  something had something had arrived in [TS]

  my life where it made sense for me to [TS]

  move to Ankara Turkey I would be in I if [TS]

  it made sense for me to do that that [TS]

  would that them that has its own logic [TS]

  and I would be making prepper [TS]

  to move to Ankara uh because it doesn't [TS]

  conflict with a plan that I have already [TS]

  see I see um and I think there are a lot [TS]

  of people that if at the end of the day [TS]

  it made sense for them to move Ankara [TS]

  they would say what no it mean it [TS]

  doesn't make sense absolutely no [TS]

  conflicts with my plan it makes it [TS]

  completion to plan yeah that's right and [TS]

  and the only reason I haven't made it [TS]

  made like the decision to move to Turkey [TS]

  at any point in my life is that at the [TS]

  end of every day it never made sense and [TS]

  I and I never made it my plan but it is [TS]

  it's very different because I'm because [TS]

  confronted with the question what do you [TS]

  want my answer is always like the best [TS]

  or most sensible option of those [TS]

  presented and that doesn't satisfy some [TS]

  kinds of parts to it I mean I'm [TS]

  projecting here which is all I really [TS]

  can do but I think again it's important [TS]

  to distinguish between a plan which has [TS]

  several aspects to it that are important [TS]

  and then versus having something like a [TS]

  lightly structured sense of hope about [TS]

  how things will go that feels like a [TS]

  plan but it's not really a plan that's [TS]

  it that's an intransitive plan like [TS]

  where you're kind of like mostly hoping [TS]

  things turn out a certain way if I stay [TS]

  at this job long enough surely I will [TS]

  make more money and get promoted that's [TS]

  maybe a silly example but I think it's a [TS]

  common example right like if I get the [TS]

  security of having a job plus it just [TS]

  seems reasonable that I will move up and [TS]

  make more money here well it's not [TS]

  that's not exactly a plan if your plan [TS]

  requires you not changing very much or [TS]

  doing things by a certain time it's not [TS]

  really a plan it's it's I mean it's just [TS]

  doing stuff yeah I feel like you are [TS]

  really you got to the core of it really [TS]

  fast and I think would it this is a [TS]

  weird thing I've discovered just very [TS]

  recently in in like examining the [TS]

  choices that I make [TS]

  and it maybe relies on optimism like I [TS]

  never would have thought of myself as [TS]

  optimistic because I thought because I'm [TS]

  you know a trend toward thinking darkly [TS]

  thinking darkly about myself thinking [TS]

  darkly about the you know the [TS]

  contemporary world thinking darkly about [TS]

  human interaction with one another like [TS]

  I'm I'm I tend to be not misanthropic [TS]

  but certainly I have my suspicions about [TS]

  other people you're human agnostic a [TS]

  human agnostic right I've just you know [TS]

  like life is definitely somewhat of a [TS]

  scramble and I embrace it but what I [TS]

  what I realized recently is that I am an [TS]

  optimist in that I wake up every morning [TS]

  and assume everything is going to sort [TS]

  of just roll like when I get in the car [TS]

  and start the engine and imagine making [TS]

  the trip to wherever it is that I'm I'm [TS]

  going I don't have was that a was that [TS]

  little toot premiere and he probably [TS]

  didn't hear that that was the train [TS]

  going by and they didn't like what [TS]

  somebody was doing on the road so they [TS]

  give a little sometimes they give a [TS]

  little toot to out front okay you know [TS]

  Mike is gonna prevent that showing up [TS]

  but it's what I the day sort of unwinds [TS]

  the way that it does you've got a [TS]

  general to check three through the day [TS]

  well I mean I know that I have to be [TS]

  certain places at certain times but I am [TS]

  i planning consists of when i have to be [TS]

  somewhere at a certain time mostly yeah [TS]

  but i'm operating on the assumption that [TS]

  I'm gonna get in the car and I'm going [TS]

  to drive to where I'm going and that [TS]

  drive is going to be largely event free [TS]

  I don't assume someone is going to cut [TS]

  me off [TS]

  I'm not afraid that I'm gonna get into a [TS]

  crash [TS]

  I don't worry about getting there you [TS]

  know like late I'm not worried about [TS]

  getting lost you know all of those [TS]

  anxieties about what's going to happen [TS]

  in the in the immediate future and in [TS]

  the long-term future I just don't have I [TS]

  assumed that everything is probably [TS]

  going to roll and that I'm realizing now [TS]

  is actually a kind of optimism [TS]

  that I bring to two events I assume you [TS]

  know when people like people said when [TS]

  my daughter was born her mother said [TS]

  like it's gonna cost her a million [TS]

  dollars a year to go to college what are [TS]

  we gonna do we should have been saving [TS]

  money this whole time and my and I was [TS]

  just stunned by this because my feeling [TS]

  was all what she needs to go to college [TS]

  when it's time to go to college we find [TS]

  she'll go to college there'll be some [TS]

  solution to the problem and that has [TS]

  that has been my attitude throughout my [TS]

  entire life and and and it is you know [TS]

  like I know that there are listeners [TS]

  right now who love who love it love love [TS]

  that I have arrived here where I can now [TS]

  make a statement about privilege and now [TS]

  having made that statement like it is [TS]

  also a like and maybe my optimism is [TS]

  also a function of privilege because [TS]

  that is the lens through which a lot of [TS]

  people want to look at everything now [TS]

  but I I also feel like there are a lot [TS]

  of people whose nature like they have [TS]

  just as much privilege as I do in the [TS]

  world but their nature compels them to [TS]

  be anxious about all these things that [TS]

  they can't control the drive the other [TS]

  drivers the whether or not they're you [TS]

  know whether or not things are going to [TS]

  go well all day they're anxious about [TS]

  them and that anxiety makes choices for [TS]

  them and their uh and and so the plan [TS]

  helps alleviate that anxiety because [TS]

  they know you know that there are steps [TS]

  to follow and if the if something goes [TS]

  sideways you know you just get get on to [TS]

  the next step you follow the you follow [TS]

  the plan and so I'm I am at liberty and [TS]

  a lot of the Liberty I guess that that I [TS]

  have or that people perceive in me is I [TS]

  think rooted in in that like spiritual [TS]

  confidence that it's going to turn out [TS]

  even if I have a heart attack and die [TS]

  tomorrow [TS]

  that's fine it's a it's all going to [TS]

  work out my daughter's going to be fine [TS]

  somebody's gonna have to go through all [TS]

  this stuff but that's I mean it'll [TS]

  probably be my mom and she'll just put [TS]

  it all into the dumper yeah just been at [TS]

  all if like 20 like 25 pairs of vintage [TS]

  Levi's that have holes in the knees she [TS]

  doesn't see the value in them yeah [TS]

  nicely doesn't recognize that there's a [TS]

  lot of value there and that's fine yeah [TS]

  I sometimes wonder if the absence of [TS]

  anxiety feels like optimism we're like [TS]

  you know it's funny because like you [TS]

  know we tend to think in these sort of [TS]

  um sort of looking for like Hegelian I [TS]

  guess sorts of ways I don't know like [TS]

  which I always see like the two sides [TS]

  just bicameral approach to life and are [TS]

  you not the minister are you a pessimist [TS]

  it's like well you know that's really [TS]

  very very general you know but as [TS]

  somebody who is anxious about lots of [TS]

  things I sometimes wonder if to repeat [TS]

  myself if if what if not having anxiety [TS]

  is what optimism feels like yeah or [TS]

  maybe there isn't a distinction between [TS]

  those things well there's a certain kind [TS]

  of and I'm sorry to keep using this this [TS]

  word that is a term of art and I not [TS]

  going to be able list but there is a [TS]

  certain kind of mania to optimism that [TS]

  I'm very suspicious of like people who [TS]

  are too optimistic or people who are too [TS]

  happy are very suspicious to me they [TS]

  just seem like they're up to something [TS]

  or they're just not wired right like how [TS]

  are you like this all that and there are [TS]

  some people who are just charming and [TS]

  that's just their personality and [TS]

  they're not somebody who you know again [TS]

  the absence of something makes you seem [TS]

  like it's a thing like you just people [TS]

  who don't bitch about everything people [TS]

  who aren't snarky people who don't talk [TS]

  behind other people's backs and stuff [TS]

  like that you know I mean that's that's [TS]

  a nice you know kind of a person I don't [TS]

  know if that makes them still an [TS]

  optimist but so I guess one version of [TS]

  optimism is that you tend to see the [TS]

  positive side of a situation that you [TS]

  tend to assume that things will go well [TS]

  rather than [TS]

  that you have a kind of rosy prospect [TS]

  about a given situation or the future in [TS]

  general yeah and all the seems to an [TS]

  opposite of pessimism means that roughly [TS]

  fair to say um pessimist tends to look [TS]

  at to pick nits with the negative side [TS]

  of things they tend to assume that given [TS]

  all the things being equal things will [TS]

  probably get worse [TS]

  yeah no that's that that doesn't [TS]

  describe me at all it's the it's the [TS]

  other thing [TS]

  yeah and that but I but I'm not a [TS]

  Pollyanna right I don't think I either [TS]

  like what if or what if you haven't [TS]

  liked it I don't know I just this kinds [TS]

  of like polar things are so that's such [TS]

  a blunt instrument right it is but it [TS]

  it's very I mean you there there needs [TS]

  to be a way to describe um because [TS]

  because it's because it's one of those [TS]

  like is the green that you see the same [TS]

  green that I see right um you know if [TS]

  you're having a conversation with [TS]

  somebody about something that you're [TS]

  undertaking and they honestly feel like [TS]

  the chances of it failing are much [TS]

  greater than the chances of it [TS]

  succeeding and you feel the opposite and [TS]

  those are just sort of native feelings [TS]

  not based on the actual facts of the of [TS]

  the moment but rather the intrinsic [TS]

  interpretation of what those facts mean [TS]

  you know like we don't have enough money [TS]

  to do this but it's going to be fine [TS]

  we'll find the money or we don't know [TS]

  something likes maybe if you're a [TS]

  entrepreneurial type and you're somebody [TS]

  who wants to start a Patino [TS]

  theoretically potentially very [TS]

  profitable high value company in some [TS]

  kind of an industry that is risky or [TS]

  costly to get into but if you're that [TS]

  sort of person and you decide to start a [TS]

  company like that and then hue to a [TS]

  developing but still very [TS]

  well-thought-out plan like if you have a [TS]

  plan for what you're going to do like no [TS]

  does that make you an optimist or a [TS]

  pessimist because they're people [TS]

  everybody says well obviously that [TS]

  person's an op [TS]

  because they think they're going to be [TS]

  that rare person who's able to pull off [TS]

  success in this thing that's very [TS]

  difficult to do and I would say that [TS]

  another person might say well no they're [TS]

  probably a pessimist because they [TS]

  realize that in order to get the things [TS]

  they want they have to have a [TS]

  contingency plan and risk management [TS]

  that gets them where they want to go [TS]

  without assuming that everything will go [TS]

  perfect so I don't know if either one of [TS]

  those labels really fits in that [TS]

  situation I don't know I mean there are [TS]

  companies right that that began that [TS]

  process and then somewhere down the road [TS]

  in their development they realized that [TS]

  what the product what they thought the [TS]

  product was isn't the product right what [TS]

  they discover is that the thing that [TS]

  they were making in order to make the [TS]

  product was the actual product and in [TS]

  order to be that flexible I think you do [TS]

  have to be very I think you have to have [TS]

  a rough plan and not a strict plan and [TS]

  that and that flexibility which isn't [TS]

  true of most startups I guess is the [TS]

  thing that that you know would describe [TS]

  my approach which is like you get in [TS]

  there and it's when we were making you [TS]

  know it thought we were making straw [TS]

  hats but it turns out we're making the [TS]

  framework to make straw hats because [TS]

  that's what the world really needs you [TS]

  know with now we can sell that right and [TS]

  that's interesting nothing but I'm not [TS]

  being so so wrapped up in your plan that [TS]

  you lose track of not only like whether [TS]

  it's working that we expect it but that [TS]

  you know there are things that you [TS]

  should be picking up about how to as I [TS]

  say pivot what you're doing yeah and I [TS]

  think I think it is a question of is [TS]

  your plan something that you put in [TS]

  place in order to dispel fear or is your [TS]

  plan a thing that you put in place in [TS]

  order to limit uh either let either put [TS]

  like artificial limitations on what [TS]

  you're doing in order to keep focused or [TS]

  limit the amount of chaos they can [TS]

  intrude but I really do think there's a [TS]

  difference because because you know [TS]

  there are a lot [TS]

  plans out there that are just to shore [TS]

  up um the number of you know of [TS]

  different like paralyzing anxieties [TS]

  right like like great um and to plan [TS]

  like almost like a form of OCD a little [TS]

  bit yeah like I've got this I've got a [TS]

  plan and therefore like it you know I [TS]

  cannot be I don't I cannot know all the [TS]

  things that are going to happen but I [TS]

  know that I'm not going to kids get [TS]

  derailed this way because I have a plan [TS]

  to to account for it and my problem [TS]

  being plan list is that I'm derailed by [TS]

  I mean I'm literally drilled by [TS]

  everything not literally I I often get [TS]

  to the door of my own room [TS]

  reach for the doorknob and then take [TS]

  another look at the doorknob and go huh [TS]

  interesting I never in all the years [TS]

  noticed that about this doorknob and [TS]

  then I then my next thought is I should [TS]

  get a tool and start to work on that [TS]

  doorknob I can't believe you're saying [TS]

  this because because just this morning I [TS]

  was putting my shoes on I was sitting on [TS]

  the side of my bed and I noticed a part [TS]

  of my house I never noticed before and I [TS]

  became a little bit in trance because [TS]

  I'd never paid any attention to the area [TS]

  between where these two doors are and I [TS]

  was just looking at it think I've never [TS]

  really looked at this I've never really [TS]

  looked at the nails in the paneling I've [TS]

  never really noticed like you know and I [TS]

  felt it felt very strange it felt like [TS]

  something from West world you know we're [TS]

  like you know it doesn't look anything [TS]

  to me like I certainly look a this is a [TS]

  very minor part of my house that I've [TS]

  never given any thought to and that's no [TS]

  door always been there are there gnomes [TS]

  coming in and they're not my own [TS]

  perception so much now there's a there's [TS]

  a quote that I have quoted many many [TS]

  times and I just took the time to [TS]

  actually look it up and I want to [TS]

  provide it in full for once this is [TS]

  actually a quote that is an actual thing [TS]

  that was actually said by an actual [TS]

  person that was not Mark Twain this is [TS]

  um very happily Abraham Lincoln yeah you [TS]

  got Carl Sandburg now this is a [TS]

  Eisenhower in 1957 I tell the story to [TS]

  illustrate the truth of the statement I [TS]

  heard long ago in the army plans are [TS]

  worthless but planning is [TS]

  everything there's a very great [TS]

  distinction because when you are [TS]

  planning for an emergency you must start [TS]

  with this one thing the very definition [TS]

  of emergency is that it is unexpected [TS]

  therefore it is not going to happen in [TS]

  the way that you are planning plans are [TS]

  worthless but planning is everything [TS]

  what a great quote yeah yes and that is [TS]

  what's missing for me I do not have [TS]

  plans and that is what makes me feel [TS]

  that I'm at Liberty gets more applicant [TS]

  on that I think you're nominated you're [TS]

  more complicated than that because it [TS]

  isn't that you like a plan it seems to [TS]

  me but you have a nine sensation that [TS]

  you're not sure what you want that [TS]

  destination to be to even plan for yeah [TS]

  we like that in which which if true I [TS]

  said he can't you can't just have a plan [TS]

  to just you know what you could I mean [TS]

  you can sit around and move you know [TS]

  make Thomas train tracks all day long [TS]

  but like ordinarily you would think of a [TS]

  plan as something that you execute in [TS]

  the service of a given goal over time [TS]

  with a given budget least as a project [TS]

  management that manager that's how I [TS]

  would think about it yeah well so for [TS]

  instance about five years ago six years [TS]

  ago I was standing around with my mom [TS]

  whose very plan oriented and she said [TS]

  look here's a plan for you why don't you [TS]

  why don't you just decide to make a [TS]

  million dollars like you have made money [TS]

  and bursts before that in ways that [TS]

  suggests that you would be able to make [TS]

  a million dollars if you set your mind [TS]

  to it because you do you throw some [TS]

  stuff off and then some money comes and [TS]

  then you live on it for a while and then [TS]

  when it runs out you're like oh shit I [TS]

  should do something and you do something [TS]

  else you toss something else off and [TS]

  then you know and money comes in for a [TS]

  while but what if you decided that your [TS]

  number one plan was just to make [TS]

  $1,000,000 that's it like you would just [TS]

  do whatever it took to do this to make [TS]

  this $1,000,000 and then you would have [TS]

  1 million dollars and after that you [TS]

  could say that that was the goal you'd [TS]

  accomplished and you could do whatever [TS]

  the hell you wanted but you would have [TS]

  this million dollars [TS]

  and I said huh interesting and I went [TS]

  around and I chewed on that for a while [TS]

  like that seems like a that is an [TS]

  example of a plan that doesn't restrict [TS]

  me very much you know it just gives me a [TS]

  reason it's not a plan or a goal I guess [TS]

  it's a goal I guess it's a goal like [TS]

  that is that our goal might be to land a [TS]

  man on the moon and bring him home [TS]

  safely within the next nine years that's [TS]

  a goal that the plan to get that to [TS]

  happen is a pretty different animal yeah [TS]

  right and but but but the goal would [TS]

  then would then necessitate various [TS]

  plans right I would have to yeah what is [TS]

  this not a lot ends a lot of outs a lot [TS]

  of what-have-yous if you want to make a [TS]

  million dollars you probably gonna have [TS]

  to do some things you know again you [TS]

  gotta move so it's like having a baby [TS]

  when you're 40 you have to move some [TS]

  things or yeah upstairs Downstairs [TS]

  change a little bit about your about [TS]

  your budgeting and invoicing system you [TS]

  figure out a way to make a million [TS]

  dollars you start planning the things [TS]

  that you're gonna buy right I mean it's [TS]

  a lot do you you probably want to write [TS]

  it down maybe get a legal pad I think I [TS]

  think you would I mean I think in my [TS]

  case what what she was trying to do is [TS]

  she said you've got all these projects [TS]

  but the all you have is the only reason [TS]

  you would complete any one of those [TS]

  projects right now is just to have the [TS]

  satisfaction of having created a project [TS]

  and yet you get it seems like equal [TS]

  satisfaction by just staring at a [TS]

  doorknob all day like it doesn't seem to [TS]

  be more gratifying to you to complete a [TS]

  record album than it does to just sit [TS]

  with it like the other day I got down on [TS]

  my hands and knees at my dishwasher and [TS]

  I took two toothpicks and I cleaned all [TS]

  the little nozzles of my dishwasher out [TS]

  two toothpicks I was there for you know [TS]

  for half the day just humming along putt [TS]

  putt sounds very meditative yeah I was [TS]

  making I was having success I was [TS]

  successfully clean the dishwasher works [TS]

  better now nice and I and I felt like [TS]

  using the toothpicks as tools was also [TS]

  like this is fun I bet that's a that's a [TS]

  that's a thought technology yeah I could [TS]

  have found other tools but these are the [TS]

  tools that I found you go to war with [TS]

  the tools you have yes map tools you [TS]

  want as Abraham Lincoln said and she [TS]

  said you know she said it if if [TS]

  completing like a large-scale project [TS]

  doesn't really scratch any hitch in you [TS]

  that's any different than just waking up [TS]

  in the morning and saying you know what [TS]

  I'm gonna do today I'm gonna wear all [TS]

  pink she said you'll never get any of [TS]

  these things done what if the what if [TS]

  the overarching thing was not finished [TS]

  this project for its own sake but [TS]

  finished this project as part of this [TS]

  larger project very simple one-sentence [TS]

  project make a million dollars right and [TS]

  and it was the first kind of [TS]

  over-the-top overlay that I'd had in a [TS]

  long long time and I think the only [TS]

  other one that I ever had was one that I [TS]

  got when I was 16 or something that was [TS]

  just like be famous and a very big man [TS]

  on campus that's right big man on campus [TS]

  he ran out on the blotter rotted wrote [TS]

  it on the blotter and then everything I [TS]

  did that year was under this Lake does [TS]

  this help me be the big man on campus [TS]

  yeah I think it does like every I mean [TS]

  even sitting and monkeying with this [TS]

  doorknob is part of that I get I guess [TS]

  but since that time I didn't I never had [TS]

  another like uh I never had another tall [TS]

  flag I just had I just had a forest of [TS]

  small flags so I have not still fully [TS]

  embraced they like to make a million [TS]

  dollars a million of them that's a [TS]

  that's a lot of dollars I said it's a [TS]

  very clear metric yeah and and the [TS]

  reason my mom said a million dollars is [TS]

  that she has this she does this social [TS]

  she had this lifelong thing she said to [TS]

  me at one point your father spent his [TS]

  whole life thinking that success was to [TS]

  have $50,000 in the bank if you had [TS]

  50,000 on $50,000 metal [TS]

  not something else in 1964 paid up on [TS]

  everything and that that was free and [TS]

  clear [TS]

  yeah yep you had 50,000 bucks in the [TS]

  bank in it if you had that it was smooth [TS]

  sailing from then on and she said in his [TS]

  entire life you net he never ever ever [TS]

  had $50,000 in the bank and he just [TS]

  couldn't put it together because as soon [TS]

  as he had some money in the bank he [TS]

  spent it on something he was like oh [TS]

  shit you know I'm gonna buy a boat or [TS]

  whatever and it was just like no just [TS]

  stop just keep doing your $50,000 in the [TS]

  bank thing and so in my mom's mind if [TS]

  you had a million million dollars and [TS]

  didn't tell a soul [TS]

  he wouldn't say nothing about it to no [TS]

  one because as soon as they see it there [TS]

  your money gets stole hmm no her idea [TS]

  was that if you had a million dollars [TS]

  you could live on the interest sure you [TS]

  become like their own endowment yeah you [TS]

  get 5% interest you get $50,000 a year [TS]

  and free money and then that becomes [TS]

  like the fear foundation and so you [TS]

  never touch the you never touch the [TS]

  million dollars you just get this steady [TS]

  sort of five six percent interest you [TS]

  you know and and I think she originally [TS]

  conceived of this plan back when there [TS]

  was like the interest rate was 14% I [TS]

  could see yourself a certificate of [TS]

  deposit Yeah right [TS]

  right you know you buy some bond some [TS]

  t-bills whatever that's our and and [TS]

  through and in her logic in her mind if [TS]

  you had 1 million dollars which to a lot [TS]

  of people nowadays even people that do [TS]

  not have anywhere close to any of that [TS]

  kind of money but but when we imagine [TS]

  being wealthy yeah a million dollars [TS]

  doesn't seem like wealthy now it's you [TS]

  know they're you can't buy a house in [TS]

  Seattle for less than six hundred [TS]

  thousand dollars now yeah but 1 million [TS]

  dollars actually represents like you [TS]

  could live on that the rest of your life [TS]

  or it could it could certainly keep you [TS]

  comforts of your life some some [TS]

  right right I mean certainly if you move [TS]

  to Thailand or something [TS]

  Thailand yeah but even living in even if [TS]

  I had a million dollar Steichen continue [TS]

  to do this make podcasts and put out [TS]

  records every 10 years I would have to [TS]

  be I would have to put out a record I [TS]

  think in order to accomplish making a [TS]

  million dollars now should be listen [TS]

  okay you write that down put that put [TS]

  that in the legal pad that should be [TS]

  part of the plan make a record that's [TS]

  part of the plan make a record and and [TS]

  find a way you know Ted Leo just got a [TS]

  hundred and sixty thousand dollars in a [TS]

  Kickstarter for his record which I just [TS]

  decided that yeah that's why I didn't I [TS]

  did the the the Jonathan think to his [TS]

  records already done [TS]

  he made it at home like the hundred [TS]

  sixty thousand dollars is part of [TS]

  putting the record out and it's also [TS]

  just like paying him for the record this [TS]

  is a distinction I had not heard put [TS]

  this I'm so out of the loop I hadn't [TS]

  heard the distinction made until this [TS]

  week who was talking about this [TS]

  oh hello internet podcast talking about [TS]

  the difference between and I forgive me [TS]

  if I'm mangling this but basically the [TS]

  distinction between being a consumer of [TS]

  the product and a funder of the [TS]

  production which i think is such an [TS]

  interesting distinction because like [TS]

  obviously historically you've been you [TS]

  voted with your wallet by buying the [TS]

  finished product but that the on the [TS]

  model today is much more along the lines [TS]

  of well maybe a much smaller but more [TS]

  generous group of people it is hoped [TS]

  will fund the production of whatever it [TS]

  is you want to make that's where you get [TS]

  into stuff like patreon things like that [TS]

  interesting I mean I that sounds dumb [TS]

  and obvious but like that's a pretty [TS]

  different distinction rather than well [TS]

  gosh I sure hope the economy for how you [TS]

  get paid for streaming vastly improves [TS]

  in the next 10 years I mean it's [TS]

  completely novel to us but when I look [TS]

  at the money that I made from any given [TS]

  album just in terms of album sales like [TS]

  I was thinking you know I we played this [TS]

  show the other day which was a fun show [TS]

  and inevitably as you as you do you put [TS]

  something like that on the internet and [TS]

  then you get 500 comments from people [TS]

  like come play s in Germany right it's [TS]

  been years since it's been years since [TS]

  you played [TS]

  fucking you know uh like worms gets it [TS]

  comes from you comes from it comes from [TS]

  such a nice and such a generous place [TS]

  but it's still all I can do not to [TS]

  respond to that with a little bit of [TS]

  snark not to be mean because and that's [TS]

  why I don't say it I don't want to be [TS]

  mean but when I say hey we're having a [TS]

  comic meetup you know near my house in [TS]

  on this doesn't such day people say oh [TS]

  you should come to warms bottom West [TS]

  Virginian do that here I do a lot of [TS]

  things sure welcome to Wiesbaden I'll do [TS]

  okay [TS]

  dust dust comic Klein of dust meter sure [TS]

  I'll do that let me just put that on my [TS]

  card [TS]

  let me just dumping yeah yeah let me [TS]

  just let me get somebody else to take of [TS]

  my daughter every afternoon for the next [TS]

  ten days oh I'll just have my wife do [TS]

  that she she has a big lady job where [TS]

  she goes in office but I'll say honey [TS]

  here's the things I'm wanted I've [TS]

  received the Merlin signal has been shot [TS]

  into the Gotham City sky I am now needed [TS]

  in Wiesbaden [TS]

  I see don't say that except here amongst [TS]

  friends but no I mean like you know you [TS]

  know what here's the thing anybody who [TS]

  wants us to do this podcast where they [TS]

  live we will totally do that that's [TS]

  something like one thing that we ask [TS]

  that's right that we not exactly right [TS]

  yet in order to do it is not super [TS]

  complicated well and that is what that's [TS]

  what's crazy if I look at the money of [TS]

  because I toured extensively right and [TS]

  there were a lot and a lot of times I [TS]

  did go to Wiesbaden and then came home [TS]

  at the end of six weeks and after I paid [TS]

  everybody I had made two thousand [TS]

  dollars right and it was like ah look [TS]

  you know that you're like you become [TS]

  your own company store right you're [TS]

  paying from the infrastructure of doing [TS]

  all that you're you're funny it out of [TS]

  your pocket up front hoping nothing goes [TS]

  wrong hoping the van doesn't explode [TS]

  right right and and you're doing it [TS]

  or you're doing it because the promise [TS]

  is [TS]

  you know you are being promised by a you [TS]

  know by a system that if you do that [TS]

  enough that you the word will get out [TS]

  and you will and then the and then you [TS]

  will make $1,000,000 something good in [TS]

  life to not count on too many promises [TS]

  that come to you via a system a system [TS]

  right so for six years I went out and I [TS]

  went to Muenster and I went to Dresden [TS]

  and I played my songs for the people in [TS]

  those places that came to hear them and [TS]

  we had a wonderful time together and it [TS]

  was awesome and I ate a lot of pretzels [TS]

  and I ate a lot of sausages with mustard [TS]

  on them and I made really good friends [TS]

  in those places and I loved to see all [TS]

  those things and feel like a citizen of [TS]

  the world but at the end of the day if I [TS]

  played one show in Seattle I made more [TS]

  money than that entire tour and so I [TS]

  truly was being paid in experience which [TS]

  is a thing that gets old after a while [TS]

  uh you can't you can't actually can't go [TS]

  to the bank and cash exposure no and [TS]

  even if even if you take all of our [TS]

  American tours by the end of our long [TS]

  career as a touring band not the longest [TS]

  career but you know uh ten years of it [TS]

  uh the shows that we played in Chicago [TS]

  boss'd [TS]

  as well not even Boston but yeah kind of [TS]

  Boston Chicago Boston New York uh West [TS]

  Virginia [TS]

  Austin LA San Francisco and Seattle they [TS]

  were the shows and everything else even [TS]

  even when we got to a point where we [TS]

  were getting paid pretty well for an [TS]

  indie band everything else was fucking [TS]

  gas money and if we had just if we had [TS]

  just gotten in an airplane and flown to [TS]

  those five two to eight cities and [TS]

  played our shows oh we probably would [TS]

  have made a big bout the same because [TS]

  flying there spending one night in a [TS]

  hotel and coming home is the same as [TS]

  spending three days try [TS]

  there and rains but and that's and [TS]

  that's what the the presidents were able [TS]

  to do at scale right was that whole like [TS]

  drop in for a Saturday night show with a [TS]

  really big audience [TS]

  yeah the presidents could fly to [TS]

  Stockholm make $40,000 and fly home and [TS]

  to them you know does what it was [TS]

  basically was we're going to spend 30 [TS]

  hours doing this and for 30 hours we [TS]

  each get fifteen thousand dollars so uh [TS]

  ready go [TS]

  and even that ended up being too much [TS]

  work for for them you know they were [TS]

  just like now that's that's 30 hours [TS]

  that I'd rather spend doing something [TS]

  else and we didn't you know we didn't [TS]

  have that option we had to do those [TS]

  shows but it but it's true of my record [TS]

  sales too if you look at the record [TS]

  sales over the course when I pretend to [TS]

  fall came out in 2003 between two that I [TS]

  between 2003 and now I have the data to [TS]

  say how many dollars that record has [TS]

  produced for me in toto all of the [TS]

  records I've sold from the first one I [TS]

  sold out of the back of the truck to a [TS]

  girl in Milwaukee Wisconsin to the you [TS]

  know to the download that it probably [TS]

  happened today and if you think about [TS]

  Kickstarter or patreon and you think [TS]

  about the successful versions of that I [TS]

  could make that amount of money from [TS]

  those funding sources exclusively you [TS]

  know if Ted Leo makes 160 thousand [TS]

  dollars on his patreon or his uh his bid [TS]

  what should I call it his Kickstarter [TS]

  that is more money than he would have [TS]

  made putting that album out on a label [TS]

  and touring it for two years and so you [TS]

  go Wow okay [TS]

  it truly is if you can do a successful [TS]

  one I mean in the end the terror is that [TS]

  I would put up a Kickstarter for my new [TS]

  album and then make eleven thousand [TS]

  dollars [TS]

  and then it would be like okay I guess [TS]

  selfies at the trunk of my car [TS]

  hi ho hi ho yeah right like oh maybe [TS]

  that's a got to do another thing to make [TS]

  a million dollars but it is it is not [TS]

  part of the rules that had to be only [TS]

  one thing you're allowed to get there [TS]

  right huh yeah [TS]

  then it'd be like well yes I gotta write [TS]

  a novel whoa another 11 grand okay I'm [TS]

  really gonna have to kick it into high [TS]

  gear here if I'm gonna make a million [TS]

  dollars but but you know this whole [TS]

  thing of like for the last 10 years of [TS]

  the music business of saying like well [TS]

  you know bands really sell t-shirts or [TS]

  they really sell kazoos that's what the [TS]

  real business model is and you're just [TS]

  like no fuck you but now it really is [TS]

  possible to make 160 thousand dollars [TS]

  just on your Kickstarter and I guess [TS]

  that there's some fulfillment [TS]

  he asked to do he's promised people that [TS]

  he'll come play piano in their living [TS]

  room or he's done said midnight I didn't [TS]

  follow the Kickstarter very carefully [TS]

  but right if they're there it's like at [TS]

  the $5,000 level I give you my car yeah [TS]

  at the $10,000 level like I will I will [TS]

  donate sperm to the to the to the sperm [TS]

  bank of your choice or whatever it's a [TS]

  nice gesture [TS]

  you know what I'll put that in my kicks [TS]

  to them put that on the legal pad listen [TS]

  well donate sperm the $7 level I will [TS]

  give you two vials of sperm and you can [TS]

  do whatever you want with them will you [TS]

  deliver them personally yeah I'll come [TS]

  to your house you can tell I was gonna [TS]

  give it to you I'll go into your [TS]

  bathroom for 15 minutes yeah and then I [TS]

  will give you a coke Campbellsburg [TS]

  is your groaning I love my fans [TS]