The Incomparable

◼   ► [Music]

◼   ► the incomparable

◼   ► number 351 May 2017 welcome back

◼   ► everybody to the incomparable I am your

◼   ► host Jason stell I'm here this time to

◼   ► talk about another one of these this

◼   ► raft of interesting science fiction

◼   ► slash fantasy TV series that finished

◼   ► airing their seasons this spring that I

◼   ► enjoyed a lot and I want to talk to

◼   ► people about them and so what what I do

◼   ► is I have a podcast so I get to talk

◼   ► about them with people on a podcast

◼   ► instead of just in real life like most

◼   ► people so in this episode we're going to

◼   ► talk about humans a TV series that aired

◼   ► last fall actually on channel 4 in the

◼   ► UK and this spring on AMC in the u.s. we

◼   ► covered season 1 in episode 263 of the

◼   ► incomparable along with the first season

◼   ► of mr. robot actually and we're back to

◼   ► talk about season 2 of humans joining me

◼   ► to talk about it are these two fine

◼   ► gentlemen Moises Chu yan hello Jason how

◼   ► may I be of assistance

◼   ► thank you boy says it's good to have you

◼   ► here also here is he a human or not wait

◼   ► a second that's a wrong podcast it's Jon

◼   ► siracusa hello sometimes the a is upside

◼   ► down I know what is that what does that

◼   ► mean it and then it flips around is it

◼   ► like a little person going yeh with its

◼   ► arms and then it puts this arm down like

◼   ► oh or very confusing yeah they do that

◼   ► in the credits to all the a is flip

◼   ► around they're upside down maybe there's

◼   ► a maybe there's something fee Matic

◼   ► there I don't know so so humans before

◼   ► we fire off the spoiler horn and talk

◼   ► about the second season of humans I

◼   ► thought we would talk a little bit in

◼   ► general about it this show this is

◼   ► obviously the second season we did talk

◼   ► about it before the the when it

◼   ► premiered along with mr. robot the

◼   ► summer before last I always thought it

◼   ► was amusing that the show these two

◼   ► shows the show about humans is called

◼   ► mr. robot and the show about robots is

◼   ► called humans but it's not alert both

◼   ► shows are actually about humans actually

◼   ► about humans yeah turns turn out tones

◼   ► just it's amazing how that happens the

◼   ► idea here is that it's a near-future

◼   ► world that's basically like ours

◼   ► that these replicant type androids

◼   ► called synths exist they're very

◼   ► human-like in appearance which means

◼   ► they can be played by humans as actors

◼   ► but they are not sentient they are sort

◼   ► of intelligent enough to do jobs but

◼   ► they're they're kind of a just a almost

◼   ► like a slave race but they're not

◼   ► sentient they're just helpers they're in

◼   ► a human-shaped extension of technology

◼   ► but and this is the classic science

◼   ► fiction but a few of them become

◼   ► sentient and it raises all sorts of

◼   ► questions about how they interact in

◼   ► this culture and how their other fellow

◼   ► since are being treated there's a

◼   ► question of if you could make all of the

◼   ► synths intelligent what would happen to

◼   ► society creating an entire race of

◼   ► sentient beings that human has been you

◼   ► humans have been using just four four

◼   ► four servants and so the first season

◼   ► dealt with a lot of these issues and

◼   ► then the second season deals with even

◼   ► more of these issues what what what

◼   ► should we say to people who maybe

◼   ► haven't started this show about what

◼   ► makes it interesting well it's a it's a

◼   ► British show it is so it takes it's

◼   ► supposed to take place like in London

◼   ► right is that where they are yeah more

◼   ► or less

◼   ► yeah we the outlying areas you know

◼   ► maybe I don't know Essex I don't who

◼   ► knows sure yeah so what I would say to

◼   ► tell people to check out this show is it

◼   ► sounds like your basic sci-fi show and

◼   ► if it was on American television the

◼   ► premise you just described would be like

◼   ► death you would just know would be

◼   ► handled poorly but because it's a

◼   ► British show a it does things a little

◼   ► bit differently than you might expect

◼   ► if you're as an American television

◼   ► viewer so there's a little bit of extra

◼   ► you know off-kilter flavor to it and be

◼   ► I feel like it is it doesn't fall into

◼   ► most of the traps that every American

◼   ► show that wants to be sci-fi as what was

◼   ► that show that was on briefly there was

◼   ► like a like a buddy cop show where there

◼   ► was a police officer and yeah almost

◼   ► almost almost human with it with Karl

◼   ► Urban in Libra that's a great example of

◼   ► a similar issue premise handled way

◼   ► worse by an American show so especially

◼   ► season

◼   ► we'll get to what I thought of season 2

◼   ► and a little bit especially season 1

◼   ► takes a light touch and really does

◼   ► concentrate on the characters and takes

◼   ► its time to get where it's going and

◼   ► it's cool and refreshing

◼   ► I agree the the basic premise the show's

◼   ► an adaptation of I think it's a Swedish

◼   ► series it's it's European in some

◼   ► respect and sometimes when it's late at

◼   ► night my brain gets addled and I refer

◼   ► to all European countries as one

◼   ► contiguous union of states I don't know

◼   ► in the same way that Jason refers to all

◼   ► British broadcast channels if you say

◼   ► see something

◼   ► yeah it's BBC for BBC channel 4 is this

◼   ► case yeah BBC Sky BBC Sky whatever

◼   ► that's just the actual sky in England is

◼   ► the BBC sky as far as I'm concerned it's

◼   ► usually cloud all the great BBC's all of

◼   ► them and the the thing that we get in

◼   ► the first season is a different angle

◼   ► than the original show necessarily took

◼   ► where it kind of it kind of starts out

◼   ► action movie like in the middle of

◼   ► something and you know some stuffs going

◼   ► on we kind of take take the gentle

◼   ► approach into this whole series of ideas

◼   ► and concepts and what-ifs and questions

◼   ► that play out across the I guess you

◼   ► would say the landscape of to two

◼   ► different families that are coming

◼   ► together and ripping apart from the

◼   ► inside in different respects one of them

◼   ► a suburban type domestic family and the

◼   ► other a family of synthetics who have

◼   ► become self-aware that are not the kind

◼   ► of I guess you would say in the

◼   ► classical definition of robot slave

◼   ► tools that happen to look talk and act

◼   ► in many ways like human beings to the

◼   ► extent that they can be played by

◼   ► British actors who just wear wigs

◼   ► colored contacts and adjust their

◼   ► movement slightly and I you know I like

◼   ► that they don't draw things out in some

◼   ► respects in the first season something

◼   ► that was mentioned back in episode 263

◼   ► when you guys talked about this and mr.

◼   ► robot and thankfully their chapter

◼   ► markers so if for some reason you're not

◼   ► caught up on mr. robot you can just skip

◼   ► straight to the humans bit is that is

◼   ► that the the show

◼   ► ended its first season in a way that

◼   ► that is kind of crazy making but that

◼   ► I'm okay with in in ways that we'll get

◼   ► into after the spoiler or into season

◼   ► two to an extent but I'm it's it's a

◼   ► show that has such a complexity of

◼   ► multi-threaded storylines going on

◼   ► simultaneously it's not just that

◼   ► there's an a plot and a B plot there's

◼   ► an a sub header 1 sub header 2 sub

◼   ► header 3 series of plots going on that

◼   ► are inter woven and simultaneous but at

◼   ► once not cheap to the extent of

◼   ► something like 2005 Best Picture winner

◼   ► crash where everything just happens to

◼   ► have something to do with everything

◼   ► else this this for me is much more the

◼   ► Internet of Things as people and

◼   ► grappling with with what a parallel

◼   ► current modern era would would do when

◼   ► faced with this stuff in a way that

◼   ► doesn't feel cheap and tacked on and

◼   ► plastic and thoroughly thoroughly ruined

◼   ► by by american-ness which i think is a

◼   ► probably mischaracterizing but agreeing

◼   ► with with the argument that john had the

◼   ► other thing that i love about the show

◼   ► like a lot of BBC itv BBC Sky type shows

◼   ► is that there's a cornucopia of folks

◼   ► that are in the regular cast that you

◼   ► know you've got mr. Grove from the mr.

◼   ► selfridge show that we have on PBS here

◼   ► in the States

◼   ► Katherine Parkinson from the IT Crowd

◼   ► Gemma chan who has like three lines and

◼   ► fantastic beasts and where to find them

◼   ► is is one of the you know most you know

◼   ► face forward you know characters in the

◼   ► show in season two we get carrie anne

◼   ► moss from the matrix and without dipping

◼   ► into the spoiler side of things one of

◼   ► the things that that I think season 2

◼   ► earned is that we we don't just see this

◼   ► technological revolution as it were from

◼   ► one side of the Atlantic we get a look

◼   ► at what's going on in Silicon Valley and

◼   ► the types of people with a gigantic

◼   ► amount of money and not as many morals

◼   ► and how they are deciding to proceed in

◼   ► this brave new world of sentient AI yeah

◼   ► I'd say jumping on something John said

◼   ► there - about how it does

◼   ► feel because it's a British show it

◼   ► feels different I like that it that

◼   ► about it that makes it feel like it

◼   ► doesn't have it doesn't feel like it has

◼   ► high stakes when in fact it actually has

◼   ► incredibly high stakes and it does feel

◼   ► like it is it is a family drama in a lot

◼   ► of ways it's not set in some sort of

◼   ► future dystopia it's set in essentially

◼   ► what feels like the present day except

◼   ► for the science fictional elements there

◼   ► are a lot of things I like about that

◼   ► yeah it does it doesn't feel like the

◼   ► the new Planet of the Apes movies but

◼   ► they're similar levels of stakes of Oh

◼   ► know what's going to happen right this

◼   ► this does not I don't know either does

◼   ► this not bode well or do we bring this

◼   ► upon ourselves and we're looking at at

◼   ► and I guess you would say the the alien

◼   ► coexistence sort of sort of struggle but

◼   ► from something that that was really

◼   ► wholly created by ourselves well we

◼   ► should we should probably just fire off

◼   ► the spoiler horn and talk about talk

◼   ► about season two of humans but I

◼   ► definitely think it's on Amazon Prime in

◼   ► the US the first season so you might

◼   ► want to give it a watch and see what you

◼   ► think of this UK take on questions of

◼   ► sentience and and where these creatures

◼   ► might fit in our society and how how the

◼   ► existence of these kinds of beings might

◼   ► affect humanity in fact it affect the

◼   ► labour market which is actually I think

◼   ► one of perhaps it's more trenchant

◼   ► topics even though most labor is not

◼   ► being replaced by robots walking around

◼   ► looking like humans it's still an issue

◼   ► of the future of the labour market but

◼   ► with automation so there's a lot of

◼   ► different things to touch this on but

◼   ► we're going to blow up the spoiler horn

◼   ► here and and dive in to a little bit

◼   ► more about season two of robots

◼   ► [Laughter]

◼   ► all right things get really different in

◼   ► season two um they're there part of me

◼   ► thinks I'm wondering what you guys think

◼   ► about this part of me thinks that season

◼   ► one was originally conceived with more

◼   ► of an ending I said on the last podcast

◼   ► I really felt like season one was

◼   ► walking straight forward until the last

◼   ► episode to make all the sense on the

◼   ► whole planet conscious and then it very

◼   ► quickly ran away from it at the end of

◼   ► the last episode it felt to me as if the

◼   ► whole show realized wait we don't want

◼   ► to close off the story because we might

◼   ► come back and do more episodes and so

◼   ► season 2 has a little bit of a reset

◼   ► where they kind of have to add in some

◼   ► new storylines and figure out what to do

◼   ► with all the characters and I think

◼   ► there are parts of that that are

◼   ► problematic that they struggle with some

◼   ► of it figure out figuring out what to do

◼   ► and the irony of it all is that I feel

◼   ► like the last couple of scenes of the

◼   ► last episode of season 2 are exactly

◼   ► what I thought the last couple of scenes

◼   ► of season 1 would be with some of the

◼   ► characters mixed around so they sort of

◼   ► got to that dramatic point anyway they

◼   ► just decided to put it off a season well

◼   ► on a basic overall outline side of

◼   ► things I feel that decompression in

◼   ► season 2 where they either expected

◼   ► season 1 to maybe get a renewal pick up

◼   ► or they expected that to pretty much be

◼   ► it and just take the check to the bank

◼   ► from AMC probably spending more of the

◼   ► money on this than channel 4 did just

◼   ► because American cable channels even

◼   ► though you compare American cable to

◼   ► American broadcast budgets and cable has

◼   ► a fraction of the budget that broadcast

◼   ► show does and you know back end

◼   ► incentives and syndication and all that

◼   ► kind of stuff but those numbers for

◼   ► cable in terms of what people get paid

◼   ► on the production side of things the

◼   ► actors the directors the writers

◼   ► everybody absolutely Dwarfs what what

◼   ► British television production budgets

◼   ► are like you know where you have someone

◼   ► like Michelle Gomez from Doctor Who who

◼   ► is like yeah we just we we just kind of

◼   ► crank through it you guys it's great

◼   ► that you guys love the show so much but

◼   ► there is not a ton of money in British

◼   ► TV and there's a reason that a lot of us

◼   ► find ourselves

◼   ► wanting to find a big film franchise to

◼   ► attach ourselves to so as far as I can

◼   ► tell

◼   ► channel 4 probably does actually pay the

◼   ► pay the load of it especially given that

◼   ► channel 4 in a much smaller country gets

◼   ► more people watching humans more people

◼   ► watch humans in the UK in the u.s.

◼   ► despite the massive disparity in

◼   ► population and it is made by kudos in

◼   ► the UK so it's probably on their

◼   ► schedules and on their more of their

◼   ► sort of budgets but even you know a

◼   ► little bit of backing from the US it

◼   ► probably has a better budget it just

◼   ► plain makes it something that can be

◼   ► done and instead of the British shows

◼   ► that'll do two seasons and be done

◼   ► they're suddenly going well it looks

◼   ► like we can stretch this out a bit and

◼   ► as much as I enjoyed season 2 it felt

◼   ► like it felt like creating additional

◼   ► runway to not run out of and and all I

◼   ► mean that just there's there's a bunch

◼   ► of cool dramatic stuff that happened

◼   ► throughout the course season two and a

◼   ► lot of cool character stuff that

◼   ► happened but I hated that I enjoyed the

◼   ► wrap-up of season two as feeling more

◼   ► satisfying because it felt like what we

◼   ► should have seen at the end of season

◼   ► one in terms of progressing the story

◼   ► along and they probably could have done

◼   ► this whole show in like two six or eight

◼   ► episode seasons and covered all of the

◼   ► ground that they wanted to cover but

◼   ► it's you know inserting new characters

◼   ► inserting additional plot lines

◼   ► inserting more supporting cast that are

◼   ► that are conscious synths and that

◼   ► that's that that's kind of the struggle

◼   ► that I found myself with on when it

◼   ► comes to season two could be like Friday

◼   ► Night Lights right and Friday Night

◼   ► Lights right you can just skip season

◼   ► two and pretend it never happened to

◼   ► just literally stitch the last episode

◼   ► of season two on to season one and be

◼   ► like and all the sense woke up yay

◼   ► yeah it's like hey guess what okay you

◼   ► watch none of this by the way

◼   ► carrie-anne moss is here and she has her

◼   ► daughter's consciousness or a backup

◼   ► version of it uploaded into a bunch of

◼   ► servers and also there is a synth who

◼   ► became conscious and now the final

◼   ► episode of season two is like a slasher

◼   ► movie and most of season two really

◼   ► comes off like a horror show I do like

◼   ► the idea that not all the censor gentle

◼   ► and that there is this psychopath synth

◼   ► who is who is she slot were acting

◼   ► logically but she does not care about

◼   ► killing people or being violent but I

◼   ► want to talk about Carrie and moss

◼   ► because this is one of those things at

◼   ► first there's part of me that's like is

◼   ► this the American co-producer saying

◼   ► let's get some American characters in

◼   ► the show because she's American we start

◼   ► out and she's in California a day at a

◼   ► google-like company where there's a

◼   ► there's a charismatic CEO who's a

◼   ► wunderkind and he's got ideas about AI

◼   ► and he's hired her to finally give her

◼   ► the money she needs to further her

◼   ► project and at the beginning of the

◼   ► season I was really intrigued by that

◼   ► storyline because the idea there is that

◼   ► she has this AI in a computer and I

◼   ► really like the the reflection there the

◼   ► opposition there of we have we know

◼   ► there's AI it's happened urgently in

◼   ► these synths out in the world and then

◼   ► here we have a researcher who's trying

◼   ► to build AI in a computer completely

◼   ► different tack tactic and technique and

◼   ► I I was really intrigued about how that

◼   ► might interact and it is one of the

◼   ► aspects of season two that I think ended

◼   ► up being kind of a failure there are

◼   ► some emotional notes in there but I feel

◼   ► like in terms of the themes of the show

◼   ► it didn't really challenge me to think

◼   ► about the overarching themes of

◼   ► intelligence and responsibility and

◼   ► ended up being much more about a mother

◼   ► who's grieving over the loss of her

◼   ► child and trying to replace them in

◼   ► artificial intelligence and I felt like

◼   ► the all that we really got in terms of

◼   ► interacting with the since was this sort

◼   ► of haphazard attempt to put the AI in a

◼   ► synth body but it was never really clear

◼   ► and it was ultimately you know it's sort

◼   ► of like that storyline just kind of got

◼   ► sniped at the end there's one final

◼   ► confrontation carrie-anne moss puts a

◼   ► you know puts the plant on her desk in a

◼   ► box and walks out of the building and

◼   ► that's the end and it was that was

◼   ► disappointing because I really thought

◼   ► that this was a an interesting

◼   ► opportunity to do the since intelligence

◼   ► in a different light and in the end sort

◼   ► of nothing came of it I mean maybe

◼   ► something will come of it in a future

◼   ► season but I

◼   ► since the AI is now like out on the

◼   ► internet and on servers in China or

◼   ► something but that felt much more like

◼   ► they were just sort of sweeping it under

◼   ► the rug

◼   ► and getting back to their original story

◼   ► and making me wonder why we even had

◼   ► that plotline next season next season a

◼   ► subplot line with Michelle Yeoh set in

◼   ► Hong Kong and yeah ooping of Soviet

◼   ► co-production was Chinese TV yeah

◼   ► exactly

◼   ► Jon would you think of the great that so

◼   ► the that AI I mean it was pretty early

◼   ► in the season and I was also kind of

◼   ► excited to see it but but as soon as it

◼   ► appeared I realized very early on in

◼   ► season 2 something that would bug me for

◼   ► the entire season which is season 1 did

◼   ► the thing that you know first seasons of

◼   ► shows like this do or at least the good

◼   ► ones do it's like they don't tell you

◼   ► the whole condition of the world right

◼   ► away right just go goes about its story

◼   ► and soon you learn they're these things

◼   ► called synth and you know how do these

◼   ► cents work who has them what what do

◼   ► they do and like as the episodes

◼   ► progressed more and more of the world is

◼   ► revealed to you so you're you know does

◼   ► it look kind of like now but it's not

◼   ► quite like now and so it takes its time

◼   ► over the course of season one showing

◼   ► you revealing its world to you and

◼   ► revealing all these different

◼   ► interactions and by the end you kind of

◼   ► have a reasonable picture of it and then

◼   ► the season ends season 2 we more or less

◼   ► know how the world works and for me

◼   ► personally since I'm such a annoying

◼   ► stickler for this type of stuff in

◼   ► sci-fi um I was free then too you know

◼   ► you're not going to be revealing

◼   ► anything new about the world we even

◼   ► learned all about like what's his name

◼   ► Elster or whatever like and it's all

◼   ► family like we know all that backstory

◼   ► we know the current situation we know

◼   ► all the parameters and that left my

◼   ► brain free to think about unfortunately

◼   ► the the I don't know I have a good name

◼   ► for it but like the the sci-fi thing

◼   ► that I harp on all the time where if

◼   ► this is possible what would then what

◼   ► else would also be possible yeah

◼   ► Pandora's Box is already open why is it

◼   ► not wreaking more havoc than we've got

◼   ► so far

◼   ► yeah re not even for the a I think so

◼   ► like heard that for the subconscious

◼   ► thing for the AI specifically their

◼   ► premise in the beginning is that

◼   ► carrie-anne moss is working on this

◼   ► thing and she's got this AI and you know

◼   ► someone so forth and it's like the pitch

◼   ► of like the the Mark Zuckerberg

◼   ► surrogate dude it's like hey come to our

◼   ► company will give you the more resources

◼   ► your AI can't be contained we'll give

◼   ► you a bigger server farm and so on

◼   ► so and it's like alright listen we

◼   ► already know that non-conscious since

◼   ► not the conscious ones but the plain old

◼   ► non conscious ones are already smarter

◼   ► and more capable than this stupid grass

◼   ► computer thing you need a whole server

◼   ► farm you can't fit it you need a bigger

◼   ► server farm and you can't get your

◼   ► stupid in computer AI work the regular

◼   ► run-of-the-mill you can go to the store

◼   ► and buy one non-conscious since they're

◼   ► smarter and they fit inside a single

◼   ► packaging you charge them every night so

◼   ► I don't see how that fits in your

◼   ► worldview and yes I was also looking for

◼   ► an interaction between the disembodied

◼   ► AI and the body AI but that totally

◼   ► switched gears into a mother-daughter

◼   ► thing and by the way I had my first kind

◼   ► of like Harrison Ford effect thing with

◼   ► carrie-anne moss because when they first

◼   ► showed the scene of like when just

◼   ► showing flickering memories of her with

◼   ► uh you know our daughter at the

◼   ► waterfall and everything I totally

◼   ► thought that was her girlfriend because

◼   ► in my view no carrie-anne moss is the

◼   ► age she was in the matrix and so the

◼   ► other actors but they're it's like oh

◼   ► it's like you when you see Harrison Ford

◼   ► with like someone who was half his age

◼   ► you're like oh that works perfectly I'm

◼   ► just used to seeing that well I saw

◼   ► carrie-anne moss but this 20 year old

◼   ► girl I'm like you know it must be her

◼   ► girlfriend no it was her daughter it's

◼   ► her daughter I literally visually can't

◼   ► compute carrie-anne moss as not being

◼   ► the ages and I mean you saw a time

◼   ► displacement paradox where there was

◼   ► none yeah but anyway the detect the tech

◼   ► comparison of the AI stuff really hard

◼   ► that bothered me I accepted that because

◼   ► again I expected them to go place they

◼   ► didn't go and that's one of the things

◼   ► that frustrated me is that I was

◼   ► thinking cuz we're introduced to her and

◼   ► she's this amazing you know researcher

◼   ► who's at the forefront of AI research

◼   ► and she's finally going to be well

◼   ► funded and she's going to break this

◼   ► thing right

◼   ► except we as viewers know it's done it

◼   ► already happened it happened naturally

◼   ► it happened to merchant Lee with you

◼   ► know with the help this this code that

◼   ► that what Elster was working on it's

◼   ► like we know that they made a

◼   ► breakthrough and that the sense can be

◼   ► smart we don't need giant servers to do

◼   ► it so I kept thinking it's like oh I

◼   ► think I actually said a lady you are

◼   ► about to be really disappointed right

◼   ► like all my life's work and then this

◼   ► happens and I thought that would be

◼   ► interesting drama like she's trying to

◼   ► try to revive her daughter she has has

◼   ► been thinking of AI as kind

◼   ► from this direction it's come from this

◼   ► different direction what is she gonna do

◼   ► can she adapt can is you gonna make a

◼   ► new kind of of sente I that is different

◼   ► in some way like I was ready for that

◼   ► kind of clash and there is it just isn't

◼   ► there

◼   ► there's nothing there but but like I

◼   ► said I don't think it's a consciousness

◼   ► it's the non conscious since the regular

◼   ► ones that just bringing way yeah the

◼   ► sort of two ones those are smarter than

◼   ► area because hurry eyes like try and

◼   ► talk to have what do you think of this

◼   ► how do you feel bad it's the thing is

◼   ► like a toddler where is the the non

◼   ► conscious one I don't know in talk to

◼   ► like an adult and they can they can

◼   ► navigate the world and have bodies and

◼   ► can do chores and laundry you can argue

◼   ► I'd say it's differently intelligent

◼   ► because she's trying to replicate like a

◼   ► human with all these memories and all

◼   ► this and kind of have them grow up and

◼   ► yeah and all of that across a spread

◼   ► across a gigantic amount of virtual

◼   ► machines using a contemporary

◼   ► contemporary level processors and so on

◼   ► where is the synth technology is is that

◼   ► like unobtainium a kind of thing where

◼   ► they have this network that's on par

◼   ► with data from Star Trek

◼   ► yeah like it seemed like that it seemed

◼   ► like from different shows they just seem

◼   ► like they're from now and that's and

◼   ► that's why I expected it to be a rude

◼   ► awakening for her where marks occur will

◼   ► be like forget this server crash look

◼   ► the sins can do it she doesn't know

◼   ► what's going on in the UK she's just

◼   ► been toiling away in California has no

◼   ► idea oh by the way in UK they have like

◼   ► literal like you know intelligent robots

◼   ► wandering around not the conscious once

◼   ► again the conscious ones forget the

◼   ► conscious ones are just like and that's

◼   ► that's another thing of the show right

◼   ► the pitch of the show and it has to be

◼   ► the pitch of the show is that the

◼   ► sentient conscious synths are greater

◼   ► than better than more intelligent than

◼   ► more sophisticated than the non

◼   ► conscious ones right but I actually

◼   ► don't see much evidence that they are

◼   ► more human-like but I'm not entirely

◼   ► sure that anything on the show actually

◼   ► supports the idea that they are there

◼   ► more than you might be right because

◼   ► there are more like you know because

◼   ► they react more like humans and they

◼   ► have quote-unquote feelings but the

◼   ► other ones are very good at reading

◼   ► people and understand when you're upset

◼   ► and they do the stupid thing with a with

◼   ► a voice I can tell you are upset because

◼   ► your heart rate and but which is stupid

◼   ► but it shows that they have perhaps a

◼   ► greater understanding of humans than the

◼   ► conscious ones do and

◼   ► to feeling like they have directives

◼   ► they're just they're just not human like

◼   ► so we can't relate to them and they they

◼   ► acrobatically and talk erotica but in

◼   ► general they can do everything we can do

◼   ► and they could understand our thoughts

◼   ► and feelings and suggestions perhaps in

◼   ► a way is better than humans so that you

◼   ► know I don't know maybe maybe too much

◼   ► on the robot side here Joan did this

◼   ► season of humans make you distressed how

◼   ► can I help

◼   ► well I was rooting for Niska to kill

◼   ► everybody a lot in the cold season too

◼   ► so I don't know I don't know if I'm on

◼   ► the right side of the show like I have

◼   ► this this this III had the same kind of

◼   ► anticipatory interest in what was going

◼   ► on at the carrie-anne moss thread where

◼   ► it was it was almost built like this

◼   ► self-aware AI classic monster narrative

◼   ► like Frankenstein's monster kind of

◼   ► thing of you've opened the door doing

◼   ► this and what are the consequences of

◼   ► doing that and that's kind of how her

◼   ► plotline ended up playing out where she

◼   ► tempted fate by taking Zucker jerks

◼   ► money and resources and access and

◼   ► everything and the dominoes kept falling

◼   ► to an extent but it just it didn't quite

◼   ► catch fire and I was I was getting bored

◼   ► with it and I wanted to be more and more

◼   ► excited about the level of of danger and

◼   ► and suspense that was in it and there

◼   ► was progressively less and less of that

◼   ► as the as the season ended up going on

◼   ► and at the same time I had I had this

◼   ► thought of along the lines of what

◼   ► John's saying where these sense who

◼   ► become aware and and have emotions and

◼   ► everything it's like the first few

◼   ► minutes of the episodes of Star Trek The

◼   ► Next Generation when data has emotions

◼   ► and all of a sudden he's not quite as

◼   ► efficient and powerful and great because

◼   ► he's compromised by having to compensate

◼   ► for these emotions that he's not used to

◼   ► dealing with these urges these feelings

◼   ► these things that distract him and I

◼   ► don't feel like the show did well I do

◼   ► and I don't there were moments where I

◼   ► felt like they played it really well

◼   ► with the various self-conscious sense

◼   ► that did have those sorts of crises but

◼   ► then others were just kind of dippy and

◼   ► stupid and distracted

◼   ► yeah and if anything it seemed like

◼   ► giving them that self-awareness giving

◼   ► them that consciousness if anything made

◼   ► them radically less capable of the Rise

◼   ► of the Planet of the synths kind of

◼   ► thing that we kind of thought we were

◼   ► going to get at the end of season one

◼   ► they're sort of kind of teasing at the

◼   ► end of season two or season two ended up

◼   ► playing with different versions of where

◼   ► it was we are going to lead our soldiers

◼   ► from their prison and we will take over

◼   ► this world and they will no fear and

◼   ► like x-men villain lines but I just I

◼   ► don't know that I if if they are going

◼   ► to play that the way that it seems they

◼   ► are which is that it's more of a

◼   ► liability than an advantage and this

◼   ► this brings me back to some of the stuff

◼   ► in the magician's about getting rid of

◼   ► your shade and not feeling your trauma

◼   ► not feeling post-traumatic stress not

◼   ► feeling any of that kind of stuff not

◼   ► having to deal with it

◼   ► viewing that as a distraction maybe

◼   ► maybe that's that's pretty much the the

◼   ► reverse that they have set up as the

◼   ► conditions of this world that having

◼   ► those kinds of emotions is something

◼   ► that is way more of a liability than

◼   ► anything else if that's the case then

◼   ► what are they doing in season 3 well

◼   ► they kind of infantilized this sense

◼   ► some of the sense make them be like that

◼   ► you know sort of scared toddlers or

◼   ► whatever but in order for them to have

◼   ► that robot skill all human story there

◼   ► have to be ones that are different than

◼   ► that the ones that have ambition and and

◼   ► are more sophisticated levels of thought

◼   ► like it's it's strange they try to

◼   ► actually you know put a pin on this

◼   ► thing of saying you're just like human

◼   ► some of you are nuts and some of you are

◼   ► dummies and you know like there is a lot

◼   ► of variety you got like max who's always

◼   ► smiling it looks dumb but has like you

◼   ► know wisdom and emotional intelligence

◼   ► and you've got the Elster kid it was

◼   ► just a jerk and doesn't know what that

◼   ► he's doing and you've got psychopath

◼   ► lady Hester and you got Niska who's I

◼   ► think the most identifiable as an adult

◼   ► intelligent thinking human who kind of

◼   ► sees what it's state what's at stake has

◼   ► the wherewithal to do something about it

◼   ► maybe conflicted about going one way or

◼   ► the other but actually acts like you and

◼   ► then the other ones that wake up like

◼   ► they never seem to get out of toddler

◼   ► phase and so it's not you know I

◼   ► appreciate that they're trying to show

◼   ► that there's a variety but if they're

◼   ► going to have since the versus using hee

◼   ► round one in the next season it's going

◼   ► to be a little messy it's not going to

◼   ► be like a West world kind of not even a

◼   ► West row kind of like semi organized

◼   ► revolt of some code yeah superior beings

◼   ► versus inferior beings it seems a lot

◼   ► more messing that which which may be

◼   ► appropriate well the the big revelation

◼   ► at the end of the episode of the last

◼   ► episode and something that I kind of

◼   ► liked was there is a there is an

◼   ► enjoyable speech that Laura gives to

◼   ► Hester the the murderous synth that and

◼   ► I really liked it because it is the show

◼   ► just laying down all its cards at that

◼   ► moment and she says um you're not you're

◼   ► not something different because she's

◼   ► very much like we're different and you

◼   ► have to respect us and you know we're

◼   ► gonna we're gonna be here and and I'm

◼   ► gonna kill people and it's gonna be

◼   ► great and and she's like we didn't make

◼   ► a new race we made artificial humans but

◼   ► you're humans you have the same problems

◼   ► and the same she said she says like if

◼   ► you were a human you would be diagnosed

◼   ► for your for your mental illness that

◼   ► you have and for the problems you had

◼   ► when you started life you are humans the

◼   ► synths are not an alien race they're

◼   ► just a different kind of person and we

◼   ► can we can debate whether the text of

◼   ► the show

◼   ► actually bears that out or not but I

◼   ► feel like that is actually what the what

◼   ► the what the producers have been arguing

◼   ► kind of all along which is that you know

◼   ► this is not the science fictional

◼   ► emergence of a global super intelligent

◼   ► robot it isn't Skynet awakening it's not

◼   ► it's just what it turns out these are

◼   ► people too to just like us except

◼   ► artificial but they're just like us and

◼   ► they have all the same problems that we

◼   ► do they're just an artificial bond maybe

◼   ► a little dimmer than we are though like

◼   ► I sort of said maybe just like as accept

◼   ► me I mean arguably make sense because

◼   ► they're literally younger like they're

◼   ► not that many exactly I have a childhood

◼   ► to go through but I mean but again for

◼   ► the show to be able to make progress on

◼   ► any kind of thought you have to have

◼   ► some of them be essentially adults like

◼   ► you know intelligent knowledgeable

◼   ► emotionally sophisticated adults the

◼   ► first wave is is is more and they try to

◼   ► show some of that in the first episode

◼   ► of the second season

◼   ► where they show the awakening of some

◼   ► new characters and you get that sense

◼   ► that like they're really kind of out to

◼   ► sea and we see with OD when OD gets

◼   ► upgraded which I again it was nice to

◼   ► see him because I liked the bittersweet

◼   ► nature of the William Hurt storyline

◼   ► from season one at the same time they

◼   ► kind of didn't really use him it was

◼   ► just sort of like we could bring him

◼   ► back I was hoping he was gonna go to the

◼   ► priest and decide you know what you're

◼   ► right father kill humans like he's like

◼   ► he was trying to arrive like he was

◼   ► obviously conflicted he doesn't really

◼   ► know where his place is he's trying to

◼   ► side in the end he decides to go the

◼   ► other direction just you know off

◼   ► himself back to robots Ville can't

◼   ► handle the pain of being alive at a time

◼   ► but like but I'm not understanding like

◼   ► not quite sure what I could do like and

◼   ► yeah but a lot of interesting problems

◼   ► it just kind of didn't go anywhere with

◼   ► the other one that really really chapped

◼   ► my whatever's that expression is which

◼   ► is a classic sci-fi thing which I don't

◼   ► know if is it a Star Trek episode you

◼   ► guys can tell me the experts the Travis

◼   ► but but certainly there are a million

◼   ► other ones you've got yes you've got

◼   ► Niska and she turns yourself in because

◼   ► it's her move to do let's see if you are

◼   ► conscious you can do just a whole season

◼   ► with that is the a lot and be super

◼   ► interesting and they just left it all on

◼   ► the table just a lost opportunity able

◼   ► like the few scenes they had of like

◼   ► their interrogators like how much you

◼   ► paying for these lawyers because they

◼   ► are terrible really I may have never

◼   ► Astaire never read a sci-fi book in

◼   ► their life what are you even doing yeah

◼   ► I mean one of the most iconic episodes

◼   ► of the next generation is called the

◼   ► measure of a man where Captain Picard

◼   ► basically defends the humanity of data

◼   ► or actually no he he he argues against

◼   ► it and commander Riker has to has to

◼   ► defend data and it is those nights yeah

◼   ► okay her prosecutes data Picard says no

◼   ► no he's sentient and it is important

◼   ► thing is a bald guy in a guy with a

◼   ► beard haha

◼   ► dual in a courtroom over the sentience

◼   ► of an artificial human here it's women

◼   ► in suits yeah what what could be a more

◼   ► like that has been done so many times

◼   ► the core of so many sci-fi stories and

◼   ► you can like just if you just copied

◼   ► other people that you can do it well and

◼   ► they would just seem so uninterested

◼   ► into in what makes us conscious or alive

◼   ► yeah it's it's it's let's throw this

◼   ► giant pile of

◼   ► red herring on a table and then just

◼   ► sweep it all back into the bay I was so

◼   ► excited to have that be one of the plot

◼   ► lines I thought this is really like

◼   ► early on the season this is really going

◼   ► good we got Kerry and moss in this clash

◼   ► and she's gonna be you know rude

◼   ► awakening that her research is wasted

◼   ► because the you know the sense was the

◼   ► answer and then we got the the legal

◼   ► thing and the legal thing yeah it is a

◼   ► rich storyline too even if the ultimate

◼   ► results is the same which is the powers

◼   ► that be have got their thumb on the

◼   ► scale and they're just not going to let

◼   ► this happen

◼   ► you could have still explored this is

◼   ► what the show is about right it's

◼   ► exploring issues of what is she what

◼   ► does it mean to be human what does it

◼   ► mean to have rights this is this is you

◼   ► could there are political ramifications

◼   ► storytelling like this there's so much

◼   ► you could do with this that makes for

◼   ► good science fiction and instead it they

◼   ► like get to the point where it's ready

◼   ► for the good stuff to happen and then

◼   ► nothing nothing happens because instead

◼   ► they're like let's have a conversation

◼   ► with Niska the the the the artificial

◼   ► like they just like ask you some

◼   ► questions oh let's bring your girlfriend

◼   ► and it's like what are you even doing

◼   ► with this like both both sides we were

◼   ► not able to prosecute there it's worse

◼   ► than that it's it's literally we're

◼   ► gonna hook her up to a lie-detector well

◼   ► she has no bodily functions right so

◼   ► we're gonna show her pictures of scary

◼   ► things oh I really like showing the

◼   ► scary pictures like that you can't be

◼   ► conscious it's like maybe she's just a

◼   ► psycho man like what maybe she like you

◼   ► as if you just try to judge and no and

◼   ► no legal arguments right there no legal

◼   ► arguments made am i it was I completely

◼   ► wrong in like reading this kind of

◼   ► there's some sort of shadowy government

◼   ► conspiracy thing going on there's some

◼   ► person behind like no it's just it's the

◼   ► powers that be don't want this

◼   ► government just want to get rid of this

◼   ► dangerous machine the way it felt if it

◼   ► felt like they were teasing that there

◼   ► was that kind of person behind the

◼   ► curtain kind of thing but then none of

◼   ► that even happened no I think I mean I

◼   ► think they were saying all along that

◼   ► that they could make this argument but

◼   ► in the end there's just no way it's

◼   ► going to happen because humans aren't

◼   ► ready for this and that's how if they

◼   ► had done it well they would have had

◼   ► them do the argument and it would have

◼   ► been a right good argument and you would

◼   ► it maybe some people would come away

◼   ► feeling that they've proved their case

◼   ► and maybe some people would feel they

◼   ► wouldn't but in the end it won't matter

◼   ► because like Jason said if the fix was

◼   ► in

◼   ► and that's fine I would've been a fine

◼   ► way to end it they just skip the whole

◼   ► milhorn middle yeah that could have been

◼   ► good drama yeah it's it's a real shame

◼   ► this is

◼   ► absolute so much of where I'm this like

◼   ► giant bundle of knots about this show

◼   ► where I feel like I'm a pile of

◼   ► contradictions where I love so much of

◼   ► what they do and then I find myself

◼   ► going wait why did they not do that and

◼   ► the counterpoint do I have that I have

◼   ► to this specific thing is if anything it

◼   ► feels like it feels like this entire

◼   ► season is symbolically playing with the

◼   ► notion of they they have awoken and they

◼   ► are going through a version of of

◼   ► self-conscious puberty and this is like

◼   ► the adolescent stage of their awakening

◼   ► and that's why so many things that that

◼   ► could go the mature hard sci-fi route of

◼   ► you know mature thought and all that

◼   ► kind of stuff gets thrown out the window

◼   ► because the the sense that have emotions

◼   ► decided every turn to be petulant

◼   ► teenagers and go no we're going to burn

◼   ► everything down there's going to be a

◼   ► revolution and we're gonna rule the

◼   ► world and we're gonna friggin kill him

◼   ► and so yeah and and and it feels like

◼   ► they didn't commit enough to that if

◼   ► that's what they were trying to get

◼   ► across well they were also just trying

◼   ► to save themselves like their main

◼   ► thrust of the little band of you know

◼   ► the party of since until the very end

◼   ► was like we know since they're waking up

◼   ► we need to protect them because it's a

◼   ► hostile world and it slowly transformed

◼   ► into like well the only way to protect

◼   ► them is to you know find the people who

◼   ► are getting them and the people who are

◼   ► kidnapping them we should probably

◼   ► probably kind of kill them all and then

◼   ► you know it was it was building up to it

◼   ► also the the I expected I mean to your

◼   ► point Moyes as I expected max who is one

◼   ► of my favorite characters he's so

◼   ► friendly and smiley and he's the very

◼   ► nice synth and I expected I expected him

◼   ► to be yeah I expected it to be max in

◼   ► opposition to Hester right where it's

◼   ► like no peace and love and we're all

◼   ► going to be fine and we're going to take

◼   ► care of each other and kill all humans

◼   ► right max just bails he's like I'm not

◼   ► hanging out with this psycho they said

◼   ► they set up that fracturing of the synth

◼   ► family and then they didn't do anything

◼   ► no again a missed opportunity where max

◼   ► just sort of lives on a train that's in

◼   ► a railroad car somewhere in this agency

◼   ► helps them sense that and then they just

◼   ► waits for the other people to come back

◼   ► then yeah I just again it's just it's

◼   ► just kind of baffling because that's

◼   ► another point of drama what did you

◼   ► think of the of the plot with with Rini

◼   ► the girl who acts like a synth and then

◼   ► a daughter who tries to act like a synth

◼   ► they did not they maybe it's not

◼   ► possible to do but I certainly think

◼   ► they did not do a good enough job of

◼   ► explaining why the heck people would do

◼   ► this like I know they want this to be a

◼   ► thing like oh and by the way some people

◼   ► pretend to be since right why why do

◼   ► they better to do I know I know somebody

◼   ► who in high school she was a huge Harry

◼   ► Potter fan and she would literally wear

◼   ► like a Gryffindor cape to school and do

◼   ► a fake English accent because she just

◼   ► wanted to live in the world of Harry

◼   ► Potter and she was a Harry Potter

◼   ► superfan and she was a weird kid right

◼   ► but why does someone want to be a synth

◼   ► because they suck well I think I think

◼   ► Rimi Rini is is very much like she's got

◼   ► lots of problems at home and she this is

◼   ► like her way of escaping that she gets

◼   ► to suppress emotion making for an

◼   ► individual character you might have a

◼   ► reason but this pitch on the show is

◼   ► that this is a thing yeah it is just so

◼   ► crazy

◼   ► it's like grunt is the thing look like

◼   ► pretend synth is the new grunge I don't

◼   ► get I don't think that it's attractive

◼   ► enough to be a subculture and certainly

◼   ► I don't see much of an explanation for

◼   ► poor Sophie to be into it yeah like they

◼   ► do it as a dramatic thing to what should

◼   ► we do about sofo it's like why what's

◼   ► what selfs motivation to do this right I

◼   ► don't it doesn't just didn't connect to

◼   ► me and I mean here's the other thing

◼   ► when they're on the screen one thing

◼   ► they code done is played up the aspect

◼   ► that played up the idea that people who

◼   ► are tending to be since are annoying

◼   ► because they sure annoyed me yeah like

◼   ► stop it you're not a synth and so this

◼   ► should have shown shown them annoying

◼   ► other people and being abused for

◼   ► pretending to be since I still think

◼   ► that would have required you to buy into

◼   ► the idea that that is there is a reason

◼   ► that a large number of people want to be

◼   ► since which I didn't buy into but at the

◼   ► very least like what I'm getting to is

◼   ► every time they were on screen

◼   ► pretending to be since I was like stop

◼   ► it I didn't like Sophie pretending to be

◼   ► since I didn't like how the family was

◼   ► handling it I didn't like the friend

◼   ► pretending to be since it was all like

◼   ► being a synth is no freaking fun it's

◼   ► not as fun as being Harry Potter it's

◼   ► stupid and I didn't like that subplot of

◼   ► I have it I have another thing about

◼   ► this subplot that bothers me which is

◼   ► there are several moments when they're

◼   ► talking about this that I said to myself

◼   ► is this meant to be a metaphor for

◼   ► people being trans because there are

◼   ► several moments where they're like oh

◼   ► well you need to you know respect her

◼   ► her her pronouns basically yeah

◼   ► man I could not agree with you more on

◼   ► this like that that would that was what

◼   ► really skeeved me out of and it but and

◼   ► that bugged me because I then I would

◼   ► analyze it and go but it's not this

◼   ► isn't like that at all yeah because in

◼   ► the end they have her you know go and

◼   ► take a bath and take off all her stuff

◼   ► it's trying to say oh they'll all snap

◼   ► out of it usually uh which eventually

◼   ► Billy is gonna stop wearing dresses and

◼   ► deciding that he wants to be a girl even

◼   ► though it's the Bentley in fact that

◼   ► Billy is no Sally yeah I don't think

◼   ► they leaned on it that hard and I think

◼   ► I mean I certainly was rooting for me to

◼   ► snap out of it because of what she was

◼   ► doing was stupid and had nothing to do

◼   ► with anything else but you know if

◼   ► that's what they were actually trying to

◼   ► pitch it as that's awful well you're

◼   ► supposed to hate the I mean the fact

◼   ► that that the son like said like really

◼   ► disrespects her and I felt like those

◼   ► were moments that are very much like

◼   ► he's basically like dead naming her he

◼   ► is he is challenging her pronouns he is

◼   ► making her wrongs not video that he wins

◼   ► in the end he's like yeah that's right

◼   ► we're just gonna hang out on the couch

◼   ► and watch TV and you'll be human again

◼   ► yeah everything is normal yeah and

◼   ► you're going to conform you're going to

◼   ► conform to what makes him comfortable

◼   ► not wait yeah it's it's you know people

◼   ► people hate the P word problematic and

◼   ► oh gosh you know can we please stop

◼   ► catering everybody and affirmative

◼   ► action everything but but the the

◼   ► problematic nature of it for me is that

◼   ► when I started to feel like wait a

◼   ► minute is this is this some writers

◼   ► deciding that they're going to do a

◼   ► trans metaphor and then it brought me

◼   ► back into thinking about something that

◼   ► I constantly think about watching a

◼   ► bunch of sci-fi shows you know Star Trek

◼   ► even being one of them as progressive a

◼   ► Star Trek is there is so much ethnic

◼   ► uttering that is in the way that they

◼   ► characterize alien races where you've

◼   ► got Klingons with fu-manchu's beards and

◼   ► they're there there was that kind of

◼   ► icky feel to the way that they were they

◼   ► were trying to metaphorically play these

◼   ► synths of varied races and genders as

◼   ► metaphors for for for you know slavery

◼   ► is just something that you get with

◼   ► robots because that's that's part of how

◼   ► they're set up where the word comes from

◼   ► that that's pop that's part of why this

◼   ► is such a problem because I there is not

◼   ► a massive trend that people across the

◼   ► earth pretending to be slaves because

◼   ► that is not a

◼   ► active proposition other you know

◼   ► outside weird you know sex stuff or

◼   ► whatever like yeah outside of people in

◼   ► in full-body latex suits being walked

◼   ► like a dog across the street yeah but

◼   ► that's different I mean like like

◼   ► literal actual American style slaves

◼   ► like no one wants to be that because

◼   ► it's not a fun thing to be no one wants

◼   ► to be no one would want to be a synth to

◼   ► the degree that it would be a widespread

◼   ► thing one or two people have serious

◼   ► mental problems and use it as like a you

◼   ► know to hide from their like a difficult

◼   ► family situation or whatever fine but to

◼   ► be like everyone just knows that's the

◼   ► thing and like you know one in five

◼   ► people in your school are pretending to

◼   ► be since they're they wouldn't want to

◼   ► pretend to be since it's boring it's not

◼   ► there was there was new wave and there

◼   ► was Punk and then there was sin so

◼   ► here's the thing that's the real missed

◼   ► the real missed opportunity here is is

◼   ► when they do this whole thing with Rini

◼   ► and she takes off her out of you know

◼   ► offer her contact lenses and she's just

◼   ► sitting on the couch is the real shame

◼   ► of it is what I wanted to have happen

◼   ► because I think it would be an

◼   ► interesting thing to see how characters

◼   ► would process it is all the people who

◼   ► acted like synths in order to take away

◼   ► emotion and seem less human how do they

◼   ► deal with the fact that all of a sudden

◼   ► all the sins have feelings and he are

◼   ► just as human as us and like what is

◼   ► that what does that mean that you your

◼   ► identity that you were trying to emulate

◼   ► is now gone and they're like you I think

◼   ► it actually might be kind of interesting

◼   ► but we don't get there either because

◼   ► they cut that storyline off and resolve

◼   ► it and it's kind of uncomfortable I'm

◼   ► trying to I'm trying to think of things

◼   ► I liked I actually enjoyed the second

◼   ► season but I was really frustrated by it

◼   ► I felt like they didn't like weather

◼   ► wasn't well planned or whether they had

◼   ► some ideas and then realized halfway

◼   ► through that they just weren't working

◼   ► it just seems like or whether it really

◼   ► was one season worth of story and then

◼   ► they kind of had to invent a second

◼   ► season well honestly it feels like they

◼   ► had that first season of tight a lot of

◼   ► really good stuff a lot of really

◼   ► well-thought-out well-planned stuff and

◼   ► then they had a bunch of like when we go

◼   ► around and draft and it's like bringing

◼   ► out your dead they had this bring out

◼   ► your dead box of stuff that people

◼   ► scribbled on note cards of oh you know

◼   ► would be cool is if like the little girl

◼   ► when the family decides that she wants

◼   ► to pretend she's a synth like Mia slash

◼   ► Anita

◼   ► would be neat let's find a way to work

◼   ► that they wrote down a bunch of story

◼   ► ideas but they didn't video going it's

◼   ► build a whole subplot into that let's

◼   ► like that there there's their conscious

◼   ► sense that are introduced in season two

◼   ► that seemed like they have the beginning

◼   ► of a hook and then they're anything

◼   ► they're nothing if not just throwaway

◼   ► characters that are just window dressing

◼   ► yeah they have so many characters in the

◼   ► show like I don't know you know season

◼   ► one is you're just a ton of characters

◼   ► right and and I think I think most of

◼   ► the actors do do a good job with what

◼   ► they're given in this and most of them

◼   ► are likable in some way but in season

◼   ► two I almost kind of wish that rather

◼   ► than introducing yet more characters

◼   ► that they had shed them because the

◼   ► thing I like most about season two was

◼   ► seeing the characters that I've come to

◼   ► know and love from season one

◼   ► I loved Niska I would like to see what

◼   ► Niska gets up to all the time

◼   ► I like Mia I loved Niska when she wasn't

◼   ► in the middle of the stupid stupid legal

◼   ► plot I really loved Niska I loved

◼   ► niska's I think the scenes with her and

◼   ► her girlfriend in Berlin are beautiful

◼   ► they're beautiful and sad and and

◼   ► wonderful and they fall in love and

◼   ► Niska has to figure out how she's going

◼   ► to react and how she's going to tell

◼   ► yeah that's beautiful I liked the let's

◼   ► say I liked these the plot with um with

◼   ► the police woman I thought that was so I

◼   ► liked Karen with her with her boyfriend

◼   ► uh and and her crisis of confidence that

◼   ► she has where she almost like regrets

◼   ► him knowing that she's a synth because

◼   ► she likes pretend you know um sir yeah

◼   ► that was yeah Sanae talked and the the

◼   ► the thing I love so much about Pete her

◼   ► boyfriend is that he is like

◼   ► stereotypical English cop yeah just on

◼   ► his be trying to do his job like a real

◼   ► cop

◼   ► he knows since they're not he knows he's

◼   ► batting way out of his League it's

◼   ► another schlubby guy and beautiful woman

◼   ► scenario on TV he looks like a Ricky

◼   ► Gervais who is actually focused on

◼   ► acting and doing well what he can do

◼   ► well rather than being Ricky Gervais and

◼   ► really like digging deep into the

◼   ► character and playing it for for

◼   ► everything and letting everything count

◼   ► and his death honestly for me landed in

◼   ► a way that didn't feel like fridging

◼   ► that is you know where we see characters

◼   ► killed off on shows for the sake of

◼   ► advancing the plot motivating heroes

◼   ► that kind of thing you know it felt

◼   ► earned and it didn't feel like something

◼   ► that I was expecting the whole way going

◼   ► forward it managed to surprise me and we

◼   ► could have lost more than him yeah

◼   ► that's what I'm saying like so I there's

◼   ► all the characters that I like and then

◼   ► there's a whole swath of people who I

◼   ► just not interested in anymore

◼   ► like a lot of them yeah right or are are

◼   ► plots hob came back from season one one

◼   ► of the big bad types of season one who a

◼   ► lot of people would probably best note

◼   ► if they actually saw alien 3 as one of

◼   ► the pivotal characters in alien 3

◼   ► fantastic actor it was great getting to

◼   ► see him for a moment there you know

◼   ► there there were there were some of

◼   ► those kind of like brief things Josie

◼   ► Lawrence comedian plays the synth

◼   ► therapist who I remembered from the

◼   ► original British version of whose line

◼   ► is it anyway

◼   ► hilarious brilliant comedian hob as

◼   ► Hobbs seen is great too because they

◼   ► bring him back for one scene he's like

◼   ► look I signed an NDA I can't help you go

◼   ► talk to this person and then he's gone

◼   ► that's it it's it was he's gone she's

◼   ► like I'm staying here if you want a big

◼   ► pile of money in a vacation home they'll

◼   ► never be seen again ah yeah I guess what

◼   ► he doesn't cause he never contacts her

◼   ► again that's right II like that I was

◼   ► totally on board with but it's like

◼   ► we're getting toward the end of the

◼   ► second season and they're like by the

◼   ► way max needs a girlfriend we're gonna

◼   ► introduce this girl kindergarten teacher

◼   ► and and yeah all the people on the train

◼   ► and then Leo and just like introducing

◼   ► Hester it's just like there was just too

◼   ► much and Mia's weird side plot with her

◼   ► guy who she works for who she kind of

◼   ► falls in love with but not quite and

◼   ► then he betrays there like it was just

◼   ► Jen you know any warts and like yeah you

◼   ► concentrated on like concentrate on the

◼   ► five characters that I care about the

◼   ► most not saying you have to have one

◼   ► like it's possible you know the maximum

◼   ► number of characters you can get me

◼   ► interested in have their own plot lines

◼   ► was really lost really press the

◼   ► boundaries of that like how many

◼   ► characters can you have and sustain so

◼   ► that they care about them and I think

◼   ► humans had too many for the very least

◼   ► this writing stay are able to to work

◼   ► through and but everybody got a story

◼   ► everybody got a thing they felt like

◼   ► we're doing a great job everyone's got

◼   ► their little arcs but some of them are

◼   ► dumb Tom Tom Goodman Hill who plays mr.

◼   ► Grove on mr. Selfridge and plays a

◼   ► similar kind of

◼   ► jerk dad on this show he got to like

◼   ► come out as being like you know what I

◼   ► banged the one synth last season and

◼   ► turns out I want to like move to the the

◼   ► sleepy British town version of like

◼   ► Rhodesia that is quote-unquote racist

◼   ► against synths and yes such an

◼   ► understanding wife because the way she

◼   ► how she doesn't look at him and say

◼   ► you're an idiot and I adhere how she

◼   ► stays with him I don't quite understand

◼   ► like harsh levels well but he like he

◼   ► Susan's like that's it I'm taking my

◼   ► family and going to nonsense Ville and

◼   ► if you disagree I'm divorcing you it's

◼   ► like get the hell out of here also you

◼   ► were you were the guy who got laid off

◼   ► from his job in the factory she's the

◼   ► successful attorney right and he's

◼   ► giving a crap about oh you're gonna go

◼   ► work again oh well you know whatever

◼   ► it's important to know you got to go to

◼   ► your work it's like come on yeah like

◼   ► she is she was too understanding I

◼   ► really like the wife and but that's the

◼   ► other thing like they have the plot the

◼   ► first season with the tension between

◼   ► the two of them and they said you know

◼   ► let's do that again for season 2 have

◼   ► him be angry about the fact that she has

◼   ► to go to work yeah like come on yeah

◼   ► let's stretch out this in this fraught

◼   ► relationship just for the sake of

◼   ► knowing well we're probably gonna get X

◼   ► number of seasons out of this thing so

◼   ► let's just yeah keep that going for as

◼   ► long as you got to worry about soap

◼   ► right mm-hmm like ice all talk about

◼   ► what we can do about soap and the Sun

◼   ► the Sun has the love subplot with Rini

◼   ► and the sofas just us her stupid thing

◼   ► and what's-her-name that the daughter

◼   ► gets to be computer hacker well that's

◼   ► what I was gonna say meanwhile their

◼   ► daughter is their older daughter is a

◼   ► computer genius who has solved / solved

◼   ► the problem / ended the world yeah she's

◼   ► saving / destroying the world one of

◼   ► those two she's definitely doing it she

◼   ► is I want to follow her cuz she's doing

◼   ► interesting stuff Maddie she's great

◼   ► she's my favorite character I think

◼   ► because certainly among the humans

◼   ► because she has compassion for the

◼   ► humans she has compassion for her family

◼   ► although she seems a removed from both

◼   ► and she's really smart and and I like

◼   ► that when she gets cross-examined by the

◼   ► the murderous synth Hester she like

◼   ► Hester really wants to have a reason to

◼   ► kill her and and she's like you know

◼   ► totally believable she's like no I'm on

◼   ► your side I believe in you I believe in

◼   ► all of you and it's like she's a good

◼   ► person and she's going to make this this

◼   ► revolution happen if in the end she saw

◼   ► like gets that last word of like yes you

◼   ► go ahead and do it I should do it and

◼   ► she presses return on her little surface

◼   ► keyboard and off we go to the races

◼   ► everybody's going to become conscious

◼   ► you know I really like that character

◼   ► there right but you're right John for

◼   ► every minute that we get of Maddie we

◼   ► get you know a couple of minutes of me

◼   ► as near to well like diner owner

◼   ► boyfriend that she commits tax fraud

◼   ► with and then he we don't care about

◼   ► it's like you can't fill out forms he

◼   ► needs a robot we do it forms like

◼   ► another winner yeah I'm not I'm not even

◼   ► saying that we have to have just a

◼   ► strictly like ABC plot structure we can

◼   ► go ABCDEF even but this is an ABCD efg

◼   ► hijk LMNOP and all over the place it's

◼   ► it's almost like they're just thrown

◼   ► against the wall to distract us from the

◼   ► fact they're they just happen to kind of

◼   ► dovetail into each other and I find

◼   ► myself again it's like this I I enjoyed

◼   ► season 2 but I kind of hate myself for

◼   ► enjoying it as much as I think that I

◼   ► did because I feel like I I just got I

◼   ► get distracted into watching the show

◼   ► and being like well I guess I got to

◼   ► keep watching this cuz Niska is gonna be

◼   ► back in about 15 minutes probably I like

◼   ► the setting

◼   ► I like the actors I like a lot of the

◼   ► stuff that's in the show and that's

◼   ► enough to get me to watch it and enjoy

◼   ► it and even say that I think I think

◼   ► it's unlike so many shows on TV that

◼   ► it's worth a watch but that doesn't mean

◼   ► that I didn't find it incredibly

◼   ► frustrating and that they and you know

◼   ► this is the shame of it if this was a

◼   ► bad show I would just write it off and

◼   ► be like well they don't know what

◼   ► they're doing is that what's frustrating

◼   ► is all of these like missed

◼   ► opportunities could have probably been

◼   ► good if they had taken a few of them and

◼   ► done them better but instead they just

◼   ► kind of pour them all on the blender and

◼   ► like that's my disappointment the show

◼   ► is that it could be way better and they

◼   ► just kind of they kind of blew it I

◼   ► still watched it all and we'll watch the

◼   ► third season of it but boy it could have

◼   ► been so much better and they just kind

◼   ► of and they just kind of kind of blew it

◼   ► I think one of the structural things

◼   ► that makes this season like though is

◼   ► talking about about the threads and like

◼   ► how it doesn't hold together is like and

◼   ► season one had the same number of

◼   ► characters right it's because and

◼   ► getting back to los 2 also had a huge

◼   ► number of characters but manages to

◼   ► sustain interest in them is that I one

◼   ► way that I've seen successfully to do

◼   ► this in both season one of humans and

◼   ► loss is to have a central mystery

◼   ► you got your seventeen bazillion people

◼   ► but the central mystery of season one is

◼   ► hey what's the deal with these conscious

◼   ► scents and we eventually learn what the

◼   ► deal is and about their creator and

◼   ► where they came from and why they're

◼   ► conscious and and the son who still

◼   ► alive does have a scent like the central

◼   ► mystery weaves them together what's the

◼   ► central mystery of season two there is

◼   ► none it's just a bunch of stuff going

◼   ► off in different directions and we

◼   ► eventually arrived at the Alba since

◼   ► waking up but there is no central

◼   ► mystery that is slowly revealed through

◼   ► the actions of other people who

◼   ► eventually come together there's none of

◼   ► that there's so many different stories

◼   ► and stuff that are going on they seem

◼   ► like kind of vignettes not like a

◼   ► threads all coming together to reveal

◼   ► something in the end it's something that

◼   ► if this were a quote unquote traditional

◼   ► 22 episode of season American show I

◼   ► would already be checked out yeah but

◼   ► the fact that we're getting a season arc

◼   ► of story and if they end up doing five

◼   ► seasons of eight episodes of piece and

◼   ► we end up with 40 uh you know 45-minute

◼   ► episodes of this show I'll end up

◼   ► sticking with it more readily than I

◼   ► will a show that is killing itself to

◼   ► stretch out to five seasons of 22

◼   ► episodes that you know lost lost is lost

◼   ► and lost happen at a very particular

◼   ► time I miss lost lost happened during

◼   ► college for me and I didn't get on board

◼   ► the train and streaming didn't exist and

◼   ► look technology was really weird but it

◼   ► was it was something that that was just

◼   ► a thing that people did and it is really

◼   ► difficult to capture that magic in a

◼   ► bottle and I'm I'm totally fine looking

◼   ► at going okay the first three seasons

◼   ► worth of this show is going to be

◼   ► roughly the same number of episodes as

◼   ► one season of an American show that is

◼   ► spinning its wheels like crazy and this

◼   ► one at the very least as incredibly

◼   ► scattershot as all of it is it's all

◼   ► still at least moving forward so I find

◼   ► myself forgiving it way way more readily

◼   ► than I do you know a 13-episode show on

◼   ► Netflix that should be half that order

◼   ► I didn't realize short seasons because

◼   ► this is seemed longer to me you just

◼   ► that doesn't feel like it's spinning as

◼   ► wheels but you know realize it's just

◼   ► eight episodes right season yeah eight

◼   ► episodes most exams way longer I felt

◼   ► like there was a way more treading water

◼   ► even within the few lowly the the

◼   ► carrie-anne moss problem there's no

◼   ► momentum right yeah because there's so

◼   ► much shifting from storyline to

◼   ► storyline there's no relatively speaking

◼   ► I think a lot of it for me is feeling

◼   ► like it feeling like I'm investing less

◼   ► time overall is because I'm so used to

◼   ► you know shows going hey we've got a new

◼   ► 45-minute show that's gonna have 22

◼   ► episodes of season I'm alright I'll try

◼   ► the first view of them and I'll go oh

◼   ► god I can't I can't do this anymore and

◼   ► it feels like a blessing to to know that

◼   ► I am at maximum only going to be

◼   ► trudging through a certain amount of

◼   ► stuff like you know timeless on NBC I

◼   ► think I ended up just putting on in half

◼   ► watching in the background and barely

◼   ► paying attention to and the only reason

◼   ► that I stuck with it was because I

◼   ► didn't really have to pay a lot of

◼   ► attention to it but a show like this

◼   ► that I have to pay more attention to I'm

◼   ► willing to give eight episodes worth of

◼   ► time to it then even take a chance on

◼   ► most 22 episode shows huh and the

◼   ► ambition of it keeps me around to the

◼   ► idea that like this is a show that is

◼   ► actually trying to explore complicated

◼   ► issues of what does it mean to be human

◼   ► what you know what what would be the

◼   ► impact of these cents on on culture and

◼   ► society what would it mean if there was

◼   ► a second intelligent species on our

◼   ► planet and how would we treat them and

◼   ► would we be be fair to them or would be

◼   ► cruel to them I mean these are big ideas

◼   ► and I think that I cut the show slack

◼   ► because I like to see a TV show that

◼   ► dares to explore those big ideas even if

◼   ► it is kind of fumbling around and

◼   ► confused and stuff too much in the bag

◼   ► which it totally did

◼   ► well the Toby and Ann Rainey thing where

◼   ► she hands over her adult options 18 plus

◼   ► you know scratch off ticket to her

◼   ► sexual agency and just like gives it to

◼   ► him I was like oh good he's rejecting

◼   ► this and but then the way that that

◼   ► played out was very perfunctory Toby's a

◼   ► good guy and this is him showing that

◼   ► he's a good guy he's going to make good

◼   ► guy decision

◼   ► and it it's just kind of left there and

◼   ► I don't know that they're gonna pick it

◼   ► up and do anything with it necessarily

◼   ► it was just like hey yeah this is

◼   ► something that we had on a note card in

◼   ► shoebox and we're gonna we're gonna burn

◼   ► this one off because hey we got it to

◼   ► burn off so why no Toby and Sophie need

◼   ► to go away to camp all right yeah go

◼   ► live in the country during the Blitz

◼   ► they need to go wherever the the one

◼   ► sister on Family Matters went upstairs

◼   ► and never returned from for just a

◼   ► little while just a little while in

◼   ► season three Joe has taken Toby and Soph

◼   ► to the synth free community and we don't

◼   ► see them right they just say that for

◼   ► the whole season the people who we care

◼   ► about actually get stuff done yeah

◼   ► exactly right that yes they've buried

◼   ► all three of those characters in a point

◼   ► of no return for me where I it would

◼   ► take a significant amount of rolling

◼   ► uphill to even get me interested in them

◼   ► anymore yeah

◼   ► so speaking of season three I'm thinking

◼   ► about where you can go and what you said

◼   ► Jason about the show is that it really

◼   ► is classic sci-fi let's take this a sign

◼   ► space premise and use it to you know put

◼   ► up a mirror to society involve ah so

◼   ► anyway with all the sense awake

◼   ► you have many directions that you can go

◼   ► in season three the one that they

◼   ► probably won't go in because it cost too

◼   ► much money is all out human robot war

◼   ► right be awesome but this is not the

◼   ► budget of the show does not support you

◼   ► all at human robot war unfortunately oh

◼   ► good news they got they got they got

◼   ► money for wigs and contract yeah that's

◼   ► right and and and suburban house said

◼   ► yeah gardens and and office buildings

◼   ► yep and sometimes the green fields

◼   ► uh-huh give yourself so many corridors

◼   ► if you love corridors this is you sure

◼   ► yeah yeah alright many quarters that's

◼   ► the thing about these shows like I'm you

◼   ► know bringing to other shows that are

◼   ► similar Cybermen's and similar like

◼   ► budgets you know colony and travelers

◼   ► they they do so much with so little

◼   ► money yeah like to really ambitious

◼   ► broad sci-fi premises and it's like lots

◼   ► of interiors and people in close and

◼   ► talking like and you know it works at to

◼   ► varying degrees but for a season three

◼   ► with this show you can do you can decide

◼   ► what you know what is your analogy here

◼   ► like in the same way I think one of the

◼   ► shows that did this the best was the

◼   ► good parts of Battlestar Galactica as a

◼   ► reflection on the rock war yeah right

◼   ► like that was so timely and and

◼   ► no perfect and a great use of sci-fi to

◼   ► talk about something without talking

◼   ► about it without talking about so season

◼   ► 3 they could do they could do apart I

◼   ► they could do you know racism issue

◼   ► brings it season 3 is the brags that

◼   ► seats right they can do brags it they

◼   ► they could they have so many different

◼   ► choices they could you know if they want

◼   ► to redeem themselves they could do like

◼   ► homosexuality like there's so many

◼   ► analogies

◼   ► analogies

◼   ► having suddenly this group of others but

◼   ► are they really that other type of thing

◼   ► they can go in some one different

◼   ► direction and all those things do not

◼   ► require big budgets it just requires

◼   ► like people talking and having feelings

◼   ► and people holding protest signs and

◼   ► being angry and so I think despite the

◼   ► fact that I thought like if they all

◼   ► wake up a lot that's the season over

◼   ► they've done enough establishment that

◼   ► the tip that the cents are not they're

◼   ► not a Skynet would would would be

◼   ► disappointed in them yes they're bad

◼   ► they are bad at exterminating humans

◼   ► they're just pretty lousy and in the end

◼   ► they probably just mostly want to live

◼   ► so I feel like you have to go more of a

◼   ► district nine direction or something

◼   ► like that only with less score yeah and

◼   ► so I'm kind of looking forward to them

◼   ► doing that in season three as long as

◼   ► they get rid of the characters I don't

◼   ► care about right integration kind of

◼   ► issues of issues of racism and

◼   ► integrating two cultures and I was

◼   ► actually going to throw out it's a

◼   ► little like German reunification kind of

◼   ► thing where it's like okay as a culture

◼   ► we've decided to put these two cultures

◼   ► together and there's going to be a lot

◼   ► of bad feelings and there's gonna be a

◼   ► lot of frustration and how do we make

◼   ► this work together because they've just

◼   ► been or like alien nation maybe a little

◼   ► bit where yeah that kind of paranoia

◼   ► stuff you get from alien nation like I

◼   ► could see that really working where

◼   ► season two a lot of a lot of the stuff

◼   ► that kept me kept waking me up as I was

◼   ► kind of starting to get bored of the

◼   ► wheel spinning was where it turned into

◼   ► a slasher movie sort of and and if if we

◼   ► can get some kind of like follow the

◼   ► Berlin Wall into the cold

◼   ► Karen's got a new partner and they're

◼   ► solving synth crimes yeah this old

◼   ► subscribe the other way you know this is

◼   ► uh again I'm read the comic book

◼   ► suggesting the one not so great movie

◼   ► but sort of x-men sentinels type thing

◼   ► because if we take a face value these

◼   ► sort of general docile nosov most since

◼   ► the what would actually happen I feel

◼   ► like in the scenario is that humans

◼   ► would kill all since they put him in put

◼   ► him in camp was not to put him in camps

◼   ► they would just kill them well you kill

◼   ► the dodo birds like they would just like

◼   ► we're going to kill them in the same way

◼   ► the Sentinels are killing all the

◼   ► mutants there's no what they were doing

◼   ► yeah but would that be interesting

◼   ► though if then you had people pretending

◼   ► to be since so they've got the contact

◼   ► lenses in and you've got maybe since

◼   ► pretending to be humans putting in

◼   ► contact with less attractive to pretend

◼   ► to be a synth when they're when they're

◼   ► being exterminated you know but you

◼   ► could have yet

◼   ► fusion where people are killing since

◼   ► that turn out to be people and there are

◼   ► people that look like people but are

◼   ► actually sensitive very complicated but

◼   ► with that but that would like that would

◼   ► end season 3 prematurely but I feel like

◼   ► that with things establish as they are

◼   ► humans are really really good at killing

◼   ► other species that are competing for

◼   ► them with them in any possible way right

◼   ► like that's how we get to be the top of

◼   ► the food chain we kill everything else

◼   ► and so yeah suddenly there's another

◼   ► sentient race and before you get the

◼   ► sentence out of your mouth humans have

◼   ► killed every single wolves they've

◼   ► killed they're gonna kill like if you

◼   ► are remotely a threat to us we will kill

◼   ► you all we're really good at it we have

◼   ► all the weapons and you are generally

◼   ► docile and just waking up right but that

◼   ► would end things real quickly unless you

◼   ► wanted to do a scenario where the

◼   ► Sentinel slash humans are kill all the

◼   ► Simpson is like seven of them left in

◼   ► there and hiding and that's what the

◼   ► show is but I don't think they're going

◼   ► to do that either well we'll find out

◼   ► with the next season when it airs

◼   ► probably like next week on channel 4 in

◼   ► the UK and then in a year and a half on

◼   ► AMC because that's what happened I

◼   ► wonder if they'll put them more of them

◼   ► on trials really like that it would be a

◼   ► natural thing to happen in season 3 for

◼   ► the good direction they're probably

◼   ► going to go in terms of like are you a

◼   ► human or are you a citizen or whatever

◼   ► the office the office of synth crime I

◼   ► hope it's not so bad a trial as those

◼   ► that's the bed what I'm saying like they

◼   ► get they get another shot at it it's

◼   ► like we can you know it's got a new

◼   ► group of riders in who has read a

◼   ► science fiction book in their life or

◼   ► watch a Star Trek episode and say we can

◼   ► do that better we feel like so let's see

◼   ► what we can do there yeah they can

◼   ► overall you know Victims Unit

◼   ► they can't go all the way to alien

◼   ► nation because the only nation it would

◼   ► be like season 5 of this show where it's

◼   ► like alright well we've accepted that

◼   ► they're here but it's an uneasy tension

◼   ► between the groups unless they do a time

◼   ► job which they could yeah if they want

◼   ► to suppose they don't like salt water

◼   ► you know okay I think the same thing

◼   ► again but as my mind works away at all

◼   ► the things don't make sense about the

◼   ► premise of the show aside from the fact

◼   ► that if it took you just to do since so

◼   ► much other awesome tech would exist but

◼   ► apparently doesn't is the idea that they

◼   ► charge themselves they show it a lot in

◼   ► the program like if they got a little

◼   ► apple watch charger on on their on their

◼   ► side

◼   ► yeah and it's an important thing and

◼   ► like Karen you know that's yourself

◼   ► discharged and the kid saves her like

◼   ► it's a plot point and as a mechanic that

◼   ► they lean on right and I feel like you

◼   ► know the same reason sense would be

◼   ► killed like the damn dodo birds is

◼   ► and it's especially Miskin stop their

◼   ► stuff together if you don't know how to

◼   ► produce electricity like every sin like

◼   ► you are ompletely reliant on these magic

◼   ► plugs but in human beings running power

◼   ► plants for you to give your electricity

◼   ► since need to know how to generate

◼   ► electricity because it literally keeps

◼   ► them alive it's like humans not knowing

◼   ► how to breathe and like you know

◼   ► something else breathing for them we

◼   ► opened the second season with with a

◼   ► synthetic coal mine so I mean they're

◼   ► they're doing all the manual labor side

◼   ► I know but like do they understand how

◼   ► electricity works do they know like if

◼   ► they killed all the humans would they be

◼   ► like we kill all the humans but then I

◼   ► put this plug in the wall to charter

◼   ► myself at night and it's not working I'm

◼   ► gonna be dead by morning like it seems

◼   ► like a really important like prime

◼   ► directive of like figure out how to get

◼   ► food essentially or you're all going to

◼   ► die that every since should be really

◼   ► super duper concerned about a source

◼   ► electricity so much so that they're

◼   ► paranoid about movie you know why we go

◼   ► hang out in the woods I need to plug in

◼   ► every night or I'm gonna literally die

◼   ► so I feel like this if I was a synth

◼   ► that would be my number one concern

◼   ► which is like if we kill all the humans

◼   ► do you know how to make electricity

◼   ► because does it just come out of the

◼   ► wall magically because if we don't do

◼   ► anything it will stop coming out of the

◼   ► wall then we'll all be dead never

◼   ► overthinking it yeah there's a bit of

◼   ► hand-wavy 'im of of all of the sense

◼   ► having some central repository of

◼   ► knowledge where between all of them I

◼   ► guess they all know how to run society

◼   ► perfectly on their own I guess

◼   ► maybe maybe yeah is they they felt they

◼   ► fill all the different roles and they

◼   ► feel like they will just slot right into

◼   ► the same slots we were in before and

◼   ► we'll pick up where they left off as

◼   ► long as we don't break all their stuff

◼   ► it that that's that's somewhat plausible

◼   ► though you can like trying to gauge

◼   ► what's in snow

◼   ► yeah well that's nice game part of it is

◼   ► it just it works it just works it's fine

◼   ► well we'll find out for season 3 at some

◼   ► point who knows when on BBC channel 4

◼   ► and AMC but and we'll be back to talk

◼   ► about it

◼   ► then but until then I want to thank my

◼   ► guests for talking about this show with

◼   ► me Moises Cheon thank you thank you

◼   ► Jason let me know if I can be of further

◼   ► assistance and Jon siracusa thank you

◼   ► forgot to mention the robo run just

◼   ► every one picture it now run with your

◼   ► arms really stiff alright we're gonna

◼   ► run away penguin with your arse on

◼   ► fire and maybe all the scents are now

◼   ► waking up cliffhanger

◼   ► this has been the incomparable I've been

◼   ► Jason Snell we'll see you next time

◼   ► [Music]