The Talk Show

188: ‘Apple VP Lisa Jackson’


  hey there it's me John Gruber host of [TS]

  the talk show and I'm here to do a [TS]

  little introduction for what is a very [TS]

  special episode I have an interview with [TS]

  Lisa Jackson vice president at Apple of [TS]

  Environment Policy pretty much [TS]

  everything Apple does with regard to the [TS]

  environment I think it went great I [TS]

  think it was a fascinating interview [TS]

  she's super smart super funny we talked [TS]

  for about an hour and it is interruption [TS]

  free once I get going with Lisa it's [TS]

  just going to go straight through it's [TS]

  just under an hour and how is that [TS]

  possible it's made possible because [TS]

  we've made a deal to have an exclusive [TS]

  sponsor for this episode when I tell you [TS]

  about them right now give me a minute of [TS]

  your time to tell you about circle with [TS]

  Disney Circle with Disney is a beautiful [TS]

  little device designed for families to [TS]

  manage content and time online for the [TS]

  kids and the whole family [TS]

  it lets you it's not it's it's not about [TS]

  controlling everything your kid does on [TS]

  the internet but it's about giving you [TS]

  the parent some sort of say in what they [TS]

  do online how long they spend and when [TS]

  they do it what can it do it lets [TS]

  parents filter content customizing [TS]

  what's available what's filtered by app [TS]

  platform and category you can set time [TS]

  limits for things like YouTube minecraft [TS]

  Facebook Netflix and even snapchat if [TS]

  your kids are staying up too late on the [TS]

  Internet you can set bedtime for each [TS]

  kid and their devices and they have [TS]

  something called insights which is sort [TS]

  of an analysis of what everybody in your [TS]

  family is doing online when they do it [TS]

  sort of a sort of an accounting so you [TS]

  can see just how much time your family [TS]

  is spending on it on the Internet [TS]

  what about 4G what about LTE they have a [TS]

  separate product called circle go which [TS]

  you can install on your kids smartphone [TS]

  and it gives you the same sort of [TS]

  control over their access when they're [TS]

  on the cellular network or any other [TS]

  Wi-Fi network other than your own so [TS]

  here's the deal by the circle with [TS]

  Disney it's it's a little device it [TS]

  plugs right in to your router works with [TS]

  just about any modern Wi-Fi router in [TS]

  your house could not be easier to set up [TS]

  and it could not be easier to manage [TS]

  this is not something that turns you as [TS]

  a parent into a system administrator [TS]

  setting up some kind of complicated [TS]

  network no it's meant for non-technical [TS]

  parents its total disney-style interface [TS]

  really great product you can get it at [TS]

  Amazon Best Buy Target and online you [TS]

  can get go to the website meat circle [TS]

  calm now that's not like beef it's not [TS]

  MEA T its M eet like you're meeting them [TS]

  meat circle calm use the code the talk [TS]

  show at meat circle calm and you'll get [TS]

  free shipping and $10 off your circle [TS]

  with Disney device they're proud sponsor [TS]

  of the talk show they've sponsored [TS]

  before and they are very much excited to [TS]

  be the sponsor of the show because [TS]

  Disney is very encouraged by Lisa [TS]

  Jackson's efforts at Apple around [TS]

  environmental policy and her work on [TS]

  Apple's Connect IDI program so they're [TS]

  very excited to be the sponsor of the [TS]

  show exclusive so my thanks to them and [TS]

  then here we go away with the show uh so [TS]

  we met briefly a few weeks ago when I [TS]

  was on campus for the Mac Pro thing and [TS]

  the first way first words out of your [TS]

  mouth were we talked about Drexel in [TS]

  baseball and said how can a guy from [TS]

  Philly be a Yankees fan that's true this [TS]

  too I don't understand that but alright [TS]

  you can be if you want to oppose a Mets [TS]

  fan Mets for life I are there any [TS]

  Yankees fans at Apple I get it from [TS]

  Schiller he's a Red Sox fan a Steve [TS]

  Dowling Red Sox fan and now I found out [TS]

  you're a Mets fan yeah I married into [TS]

  the mess like you can't ever be without [TS]

  them but yeah I don't know if they're [TS]

  around maybe they're just not holding [TS]

  their head up to Howie's day I'm sure [TS]

  they're all gonna come and find me after [TS]

  this airs but they're here [TS]

  there's if there are any inky stands at [TS]

  Apple you should go after Lisa Jackson [TS]

  thanks that's all I need there aren't [TS]

  any people in the world going after Lisa [TS]

  Jackson let's just add them to the list [TS]

  uh well so we won't talk baseball but so [TS]

  far so good for both the Yankees and [TS]

  Mets they're both off to a good start so [TS]

  neither of us really has neither a visit [TS]

  anything to rib the other about always [TS]

  about the bullpen right about will we'll [TS]

  see okay well well we'll keep our [TS]

  fingers crossed and hopefully I will [TS]

  talk to you later [TS]

  the wrong way we are talking because [TS]

  this episode will air right before Earth [TS]

  Day and Earth Day is big started to an [TS]

  annual celebration for Apple you guys [TS]

  have announcements that coincide with [TS]

  Earth Day every year now correct yeah [TS]

  that's right it's something we started [TS]

  back in 2014 so this year I have notes [TS]

  here but let me let me make sure I don't [TS]

  miss anything by the time this episode [TS]

  airs your 2017 environmental [TS]

  responsibility report will be out and [TS]

  you have a big and big announcement [TS]

  there which is that you guys are setting [TS]

  a new goal which is a closed-loop supply [TS]

  chain can you tell me what that means [TS]

  well it sounds so technical you know it [TS]

  what we've said is that for four years [TS]

  now we said that one of our three [TS]

  priorities is to really recognize the [TS]

  fact that the resources that we use to [TS]

  make our products are finite [TS]

  just by definition and the world has [TS]

  been looking for a while for a while at [TS]

  this idea of trying to close the loop on [TS]

  supply chains so if you think about most [TS]

  supply chains and ours is very complex [TS]

  I'm going to oversimplify you you mind [TS]

  something out of the earth you source it [TS]

  usually it comes from the earth somehow [TS]

  it's a finite resource and then you [TS]

  manufacture you produce it obviously [TS]

  there are many many people involved in [TS]

  the manufacture of our products people [TS]

  use them they buy them they use them [TS]

  that's great hopefully they use them for [TS]

  a very long time they get all their [TS]

  software upgrades everything's wonderful [TS]

  but at some point you have to discard it [TS]

  and Apple spent a lot of time and effort [TS]

  over the years for many years on the [TS]

  recycling end you know being able to try [TS]

  to bring used electronics in and recycle [TS]

  them but the frustrating part of that [TS]

  has been you know that's still a line [TS]

  when it's time to make more products [TS]

  many of our suppliers still go back to [TS]

  the mines if you will go back to the [TS]

  earth so one of the things we've set our [TS]

  sights on and I have to start by saying [TS]

  this is a very long-term goal and it's [TS]

  it's not like us to announce goals way [TS]

  out into the future but it's sort of a [TS]

  North Star for us is to start to close [TS]

  that loop to say can we use [TS]

  recycled material maybe our recycled [TS]

  material but recycled material in [TS]

  general to be more of the feedstocks for [TS]

  our suppliers for the components that [TS]

  make up of our products so if you think [TS]

  about that for a second it you know it [TS]

  requires all of us working together it's [TS]

  kind of a systems problem everything [TS]

  from design to engineering to [TS]

  manufacturing to procurement all those [TS]

  relationships with suppliers but it's [TS]

  really something kind of cool for us [TS]

  we've sort of worked with a lot of the [TS]

  folks who do the work here and I think [TS]

  all of us think it's just a fun and [TS]

  really important time to focus on [TS]

  resources [TS]

  what are you said you have there's three [TS]

  priorities three main priorities at [TS]

  Apple in this in this regard what are [TS]

  those three priorities so they haven't [TS]

  changed and I don't think they will the [TS]

  first is to address climate change and I [TS]

  say it really broadly that way because [TS]

  it's not to zero out our carbon [TS]

  footprint or to become carbon neutral [TS]

  but really to look at climate change as [TS]

  a problem that the world is facing [TS]

  really the largest environmental and [TS]

  environmental health problem and [TS]

  economic problem in many places we know [TS]

  we now see it's another big systems [TS]

  problem and so to address it obviously [TS]

  the way to address it is energy [TS]

  efficiency more renewable energy cleaner [TS]

  energy on the grid moving to a [TS]

  low-carbon world and so we take really [TS]

  seriously our responsibility to first [TS]

  start at home Apple is 100% renewable [TS]

  powered in 24 countries including our [TS]

  own I'm sorry is 96 percent really [TS]

  powered I'm about to get in trouble here [TS]

  in 24 countries we're 100% so in the [TS]

  u.s. were 100% in 23 other countries but [TS]

  when you average it out around the world [TS]

  we're at 96 percent and that includes [TS]

  our data centers those are at 100 [TS]

  percent so all of our data centers every [TS]

  time you send a message or send a [TS]

  FaceTime video you're using a data [TS]

  center that's not contributing to [TS]

  climate change and it includes our [TS]

  offices our new office Apple Park course [TS]

  being one of those but so 96% we're [TS]

  really proud of so [TS]

  climate changes is number one we talked [TS]

  a little bit about resources number two [TS]

  and our third one kind of goes back to [TS]

  something that's been in our history for [TS]

  a long time and that's to use greener [TS]

  materials to remove toxic materials [TS]

  usually well ahead of the game [TS]

  Apple removed halogenated compounds from [TS]

  our products years ago and so we wanted [TS]

  to sort of honor this history that Apple [TS]

  has had a pioneering the use of greener [TS]

  safer better materials and then keep [TS]

  that as one of our priorities because [TS]

  there's a lot of people who are very [TS]

  proud of the work they do to accomplish [TS]

  for example PVC pop PVC free power cords [TS]

  yes and that's become a you can bank on [TS]

  it a hallmark of every product [TS]

  introduction introduction event is at [TS]

  some point there's going to be that [TS]

  green checklist and it's not something [TS]

  that gets rushed through it is late [TS]

  let's pause for a second we want to tell [TS]

  you how awesome this product is but we [TS]

  want to pause right now and just say [TS]

  look at this it's PVC free this free [TS]

  that free that's become a you can bank [TS]

  on it for every product and yeah I'm [TS]

  almost hoping it gets to the point where [TS]

  everyone says it along with us and you [TS]

  know because Phil Schiller is usually [TS]

  the one who does it [TS]

  the secretary explaining things I call [TS]

  him but you know he's usually takes the [TS]

  time to really explain you know the [TS]

  products and all they do and it makes me [TS]

  really proud that he always insists that [TS]

  one of the things he wants to explain is [TS]

  the time that it takes I mean they are [TS]

  the materials that aren't in there and I [TS]

  think it's partially because he realizes [TS]

  how much deep in innovation and [TS]

  engineering it takes to make those [TS]

  decisions to take those materials out [TS]

  and a lot of times with pollution it's [TS]

  you know you're talking about the stuff [TS]

  that didn't happen so that can be a hard [TS]

  thing for most people to appreciate or [TS]

  understand but it's always really cool [TS]

  that Apple takes the time to do that and [TS]

  and part of what makes it difficult for [TS]

  Apple in particular is that Apple has [TS]

  very [TS]

  high standards it's what the company is [TS]

  known for in consumers minds part of the [TS]

  brand is that their stuff is very nice [TS]

  it is nice in terms of it just looks [TS]

  nice it feels nice and sometimes I think [TS]

  in the past some of the reason that some [TS]

  of these substances and materials that [TS]

  we use that are not environmentally [TS]

  friendly we use it was because such and [TS]

  such thing makes the glass shinier or [TS]

  something like that and so it's for [TS]

  Apple it's not we can't just get rid of [TS]

  it's like you can't just get rid of it [TS]

  you have to get rid of it and still keep [TS]

  the standards for the devices and the [TS]

  quality of the materials as high as [TS]

  possible [TS]

  and I think that's true I mean I wasn't [TS]

  in the labs when work was being done I [TS]

  think there's also an element of sort of [TS]

  that's the way it's always been done so [TS]

  powerchords is a great example you know [TS]

  do you need polyvinyl chloride in the [TS]

  power cord in order to make it strong [TS]

  enough and safe enough well pretty much [TS]

  around the world Apple is work to get [TS]

  certified power cords that don't have [TS]

  them they do feel different they are [TS]

  softer but there's a really important [TS]

  reason why which is that those materials [TS]

  are never introduced anywhere in the [TS]

  supply which is really sort of a [TS]

  prevention of pollution for our workers [TS]

  and for the communities where [TS]

  manufacturing happens I think I think [TS]

  it's also a bit of a nod to the folks in [TS]

  the environmental testing and [TS]

  technologies group you know we have an [TS]

  environmental testing lab here and it's [TS]

  grown over the years I was actually [TS]

  there yesterday day before can you [TS]

  remember the week is going by fast but [TS]

  you know we also have to test the parts [TS]

  that we get and one of the things we've [TS]

  been doing is testing so far I think [TS]

  it's over 20,000 individual parts [TS]

  because a lot of things end up in a part [TS]

  we might specify how we want the part to [TS]

  behave on what we want in it but a lot [TS]

  of times there is material that are in [TS]

  there that maybe maybe you don't need or [TS]

  maybe you don't realize or maybe we want [TS]

  to make sure is substitute it out and so [TS]

  we're also spending a lot of time it's [TS]

  almost like our own little DNA project [TS]

  you know learning and understanding into [TS]

  we what are in the parts that we get [TS]

  from our suppliers one of the things I [TS]

  don't want to skip around too much but [TS]

  okay I tend to do that how hard I do I [TS]

  do too but a lot of this stuff is [TS]

  interrelated it's it's like all of a [TS]

  sudden we're talking about the the [TS]

  materials that are used in these devices [TS]

  and it leads you immediately to talking [TS]

  about aspects of the supply chain but [TS]

  there's a part of the news this week is [TS]

  a series of four short videos animated [TS]

  videos by James Blagdon and I got a [TS]

  sneak look at them ahead of this so I [TS]

  can see it but by the time the show airs [TS]

  they'll be out and they're really kind [TS]

  of interesting but but they cover [TS]

  different different aspects of it and [TS]

  one of them covers the the the goal of [TS]

  having no it correct me if I'm wrong but [TS]

  the goal is to have no waste going to [TS]

  landfills from the supply chain yeah [TS]

  right now the video covers our final [TS]

  assembly facilities so those that's why [TS]

  you'll see in the video and emphasis on [TS]

  sort of material coming in which is you [TS]

  know what happens at those facilities a [TS]

  lot of material and parts come in and [TS]

  then they're assembled and a product [TS]

  goes out the door but yeah so the [TS]

  emphasis on is on this idea and it's not [TS]

  a new idea [TS]

  but I think Apple is really embracing it [TS]

  we have facilities now all of our final [TS]

  assembly facilities in you know we have [TS]

  a facility in Cork we have facilities in [TS]

  China we have Cellini in Brazil and our [TS]

  facility here in California are now [TS]

  certified by ul as zero waste and it was [TS]

  you know this classic environment versus [TS]

  you know economy argument that's so [TS]

  false and it was so evident because the [TS]

  reason this started was looking at a [TS]

  problem and thinking oh we just got all [TS]

  this material and it's waste and [TS]

  thinking oh the answer is recycling but [TS]

  really the answer is to think smart [TS]

  about why are so many things coming in [TS]

  but leaving empty and can they go back [TS]

  can you take a pallet or can you take a [TS]

  tray that can [TS]

  pain's material and send it back so it [TS]

  can be used over and over again and that [TS]

  saves money so people really embraced it [TS]

  it's not always easy to see that path [TS]

  towards saving money but everybody feels [TS]

  really good about the idea of not having [TS]

  to send waste to a landfill in order to [TS]

  produce our products in other words it's [TS]

  sort of in the common sense of the word [TS]

  it's kind of like a simpler form of [TS]

  recycling where instead of having you [TS]

  know and again you think about the [TS]

  magnitude of it in some times it it just [TS]

  it boggles the mind where they're [TS]

  talking about a assembly facility that [TS]

  is turning out 150,000 iPhones a day [TS]

  which is crazy and you just think well [TS]

  every single one of those iPhones has a [TS]

  touch ID sensor and it comes in in a [TS]

  tray mm-hm [TS]

  and if you can just have those trays [TS]

  that were used to deliver the touch ID [TS]

  sensors in the morning go back out and [TS]

  the same tray is being used to deliver [TS]

  the touch ID sensor in the afternoon [TS]

  that's it's sort of like recycling [TS]

  without actually having to go through [TS]

  all the process of actually remoulding [TS]

  the material and and turning it into a [TS]

  new tray why turn it why turn a tray [TS]

  that was used once into it another tray [TS]

  when you could just reuse the tray yeah [TS]

  exactly I mean it's that old adage of [TS]

  reduce reuse and recycle is part of it [TS]

  but it shouldn't be the first place we [TS]

  go and I kind of like the way you're [TS]

  you're explaining because part of our [TS]

  thought of these videos was you know not [TS]

  everyone at home has a final assembly [TS]

  facility but they do have the [TS]

  opportunity to think the same way about [TS]

  the ways that they might produce and we [TS]

  really wanted to connect our customers [TS]

  first to what we do but also maybe to [TS]

  spark in them the thoughts of hey that's [TS]

  a really interesting way of thinking [TS]

  about you know life in general and maybe [TS]

  it applies a little me maybe maybe they [TS]

  won't make that connection but really [TS]

  just want to make it simple maybe [TS]

  thought-provoking [TS]

  and to reach people where they are but [TS]

  but also it gave us a chance the video [TS]

  you're talking about gave John a chance [TS]

  to tell his [TS]

  and there are just so many cool stories [TS]

  at Apple of people who don't have to but [TS]

  want to do the right thing and figure [TS]

  out through maybe a little bit of trial [TS]

  and error John has a little bit of a [TS]

  trial and error moment in that short [TS]

  video but you know they figure out what [TS]

  to do and then the beauty of Apple of [TS]

  course is once we figure out what to do [TS]

  we learn how to do it at scale pretty [TS]

  quickly yeah I've noticed it like my my [TS]

  son is in seventh grade and I it's not [TS]

  like a rule it's not like they're told [TS]

  everybody has to come in with it but as [TS]

  far as I can tell every kid comes into [TS]

  school every day [TS]

  with a like a thermos or you know [TS]

  aluminum water bottle and so for [TS]

  drinking water nobody brick brings in [TS]

  you know like the retail bottles of [TS]

  water every every kid comes in with with [TS]

  a little thermos that they just fill [TS]

  with cold water at the beginning of the [TS]

  day yeah and they don't see it right I'm [TS]

  guessing your son doesn't see it as a [TS]

  pain or anything weird he actually just [TS]

  thinks of it is the way to drink water [TS]

  yeah I know my son is considerably older [TS]

  than yours [TS]

  but uh you know he I was talking to him [TS]

  yesterday and he I said you know what'd [TS]

  you have for lunch I didn't eat I said [TS]

  oh you know so then as a mom I'm upset [TS]

  but then he I'm like would you do he's [TS]

  like I drank water all day I was like [TS]

  how you do that he said I brought a [TS]

  water bottle from home you know just [TS]

  like leave me alone but they don't you [TS]

  know it's not a big deal and it's not [TS]

  seen as um like like you don't need to [TS]

  buy this you know all the waters it's [TS]

  right there it's for us it's actually [TS]

  one of the blessings we have in this [TS]

  country is a mostly secure supply of [TS]

  clean drinking water yeah but it's it [TS]

  that's exactly it though it just seems [TS]

  it just comes naturally to to kids today [TS]

  it doesn't that it doesn't seem like [TS]

  they they don't even see it as like oh [TS]

  I'm doing my good deed for the [TS]

  environment it's just this just makes [TS]

  sense absolutely and I sometimes wonder [TS]

  like what things [TS]

  what other things will be that way I [TS]

  know climate change will be that way um [TS]

  so but you know you just you wonder what [TS]

  other things will sort of be baked in [TS]

  with an ethic that's a lot more [TS]

  thoughtful about the planet and sort of [TS]

  your role in the planet um one of the [TS]

  other videos again skipping around a [TS]

  little bit but it's all in your purview [TS]

  one of them focused on the new Apple [TS]

  Park and how the the building is that I [TS]

  don't think it's a stretch to say that [TS]

  it's an innovative design to cooling [TS]

  that it's a combination of cold water [TS]

  running through pipes and a sort of a [TS]

  breathable let the wind blow through the [TS]

  building to to circulate can you tell me [TS]

  more about that yeah you know I so these [TS]

  will be out and hopefully everybody will [TS]

  seen them but if you haven't seen the [TS]

  building with Dan Whisenhunt who's done [TS]

  a lot of the work overseeing the [TS]

  construction and of Apple Park Dan talks [TS]

  about you know the the way the building [TS]

  was designed by Foster and partners to [TS]

  be a breathing building and he does a [TS]

  lovely job and Blagdon does a great job [TS]

  of sort of illustrating the idea of [TS]

  here's a typical building and here's how [TS]

  this one works now you know we have kind [TS]

  of a we have an advantage first off [TS]

  we're in you know Silicon Valley in [TS]

  Cupertino and the climate here is is [TS]

  mild although it can get pretty warm in [TS]

  the summer it's not New Orleans hot like [TS]

  what I'm used to born with is hot you [TS]

  get warm but 75% oh I was gonna mention [TS]

  Philadelphia humidity but you could you [TS]

  you trumped me with you know you're [TS]

  almost the same it's the same as DC [TS]

  people spell New Orleans is so hot [TS]

  normally no it's not hot in the summer [TS]

  when it's humid there's just nothing [TS]

  like it but you know 75% of the time at [TS]

  Apple Park we're estimating that there [TS]

  won't be a need for additional [TS]

  air-conditioning and you're right the [TS]

  building sorter is designed to have this [TS]

  flow of air it would be sort of [TS]

  convection into the building hunt [TS]

  through these louvers and then pass [TS]

  concrete that has cool water circulating [TS]

  in it and that should be enough and it [TS]

  is also designed to have a lot of air do [TS]

  that and so you know there's lots of [TS]

  studies that show that sort of outside [TS]

  air Sun soda is actually the environment [TS]

  we humans were meant to be in not the [TS]

  artificially conditioned environment and [TS]

  the building is on track to be certified [TS]

  by the US Green Building Council as LEED [TS]

  Platinum that's their highest [TS]

  certification for environment and energy [TS]

  efficiency and smartness and so we're [TS]

  really proud of that because it includes [TS]

  the Rd facilities it's really a rd park [TS]

  as much as it's an office building so [TS]

  it's going to be exciting I'm thrilled [TS]

  for the day we actually move in although [TS]

  I know it's going to be a little bit of [TS]

  madness let's be awful fun moving is [TS]

  always madness moving to the world's [TS]

  largest corporation it the Crosstown is [TS]

  really I don't know what could go wrong [TS]

  really um all right here's a question [TS]

  that I have and I I would like explain [TS]

  it to me like I'm an idiot what it mean [TS]

  what renewable energy means in the sense [TS]

  of 96% of your operations are running on [TS]

  renewable energy and in 24 countries a [TS]

  hundred percent explain to me what that [TS]

  means and why it why I should care so [TS]

  you know we we set a goal to run on 100% [TS]

  renewable for all of our operations and [TS]

  I just want to say notably we set a goal [TS]

  from the beginning to run data centers [TS]

  on renewable energy you should care [TS]

  because climate change is real is [TS]

  happening and any responsible company [TS]

  ought to be thinking about its role in [TS]

  solving that problem it's just that [TS]

  simple to me I mean you know Tim talks a [TS]

  lot about companies are made of people [TS]

  and companies have values and they [TS]

  should stand for things and this company [TS]

  has said very clearly that one of the [TS]

  things we stand for is taking care of [TS]

  our environment I don't think that's you [TS]

  know in any way partisan either I think [TS]

  most people would say less pollution is [TS]

  good you know more pollution is bad but [TS]

  also the idea that having the planet and [TS]

  having the resources of the planet [TS]

  around for future generations is really [TS]

  important and then you're a parent but I [TS]

  think many of us think about our [TS]

  obligation to future generations not to [TS]

  leave a place that's you know [TS]

  heading to the point where the only [TS]

  option is to you know recolonize or [TS]

  colonize another planet just doesn't [TS]

  seem like the parental thing to do and [TS]

  so there's there's all kinds of reasons [TS]

  and I could get I can wax all day about [TS]

  climate change but what we said is look [TS]

  ideally you know we are not a power [TS]

  company we are not a utility if the [TS]

  world was where we want it to be today [TS]

  there'd be a utility saying hey what [TS]

  kind of poverty you want to buy ok sure [TS]

  here I'll sell it to you that would be [TS]

  awesome we don't have that choice [TS]

  everywhere so Apple has the ability to [TS]

  do a little bit more so in general we [TS]

  know how much energy we use in a [TS]

  particular country in a particular [TS]

  region and our goal is to put that much [TS]

  or more clean energy onto the grid where [TS]

  we use it so a couple of things the [TS]

  ideas has to be new clean energy so we [TS]

  don't want to just come in and buy all [TS]

  the available clean energy because then [TS]

  there's nothing left for somebody else [TS]

  to buy that doesn't seem very fair and [TS]

  wherever possible to displace dirtier [TS]

  and energy so because we're there [TS]

  there's this new clean energy and maybe [TS]

  it means you don't need as much of the [TS]

  more polluting forms of energy and then [TS]

  we try to be very fastidious about about [TS]

  quantifying that so we drew up at the [TS]

  end of every year so you know when [TS]

  people ask me well that means you're not [TS]

  always using the exact clean energy [TS]

  electron that you generate because we [TS]

  have solar powers on top of Apple Park [TS]

  we have I mean solar farm at our data [TS]

  centers we have wind power that we [TS]

  purchase here in California we even have [TS]

  like micro hydro projects in in Oregon [TS]

  we don't always have that connection it [TS]

  has to go through the grid and the grid [TS]

  plays an important role but it's like an [TS]

  ATM we make sure we're putting enough [TS]

  clean energy new clean energy in to [TS]

  cover what we have to take out and [TS]

  although that's not the absolute optimum [TS]

  to us it feels like if every company did [TS]

  that we'd have a lot more clean energy [TS]

  on the grid and demand it on the grid [TS]

  and that would displace brown power I [TS]

  is it a source of frustration for you [TS]

  Edie either either in your current role [TS]

  specifically at one company Apple or [TS]

  looking even broader at your career and [TS]

  previously for anybody who doesn't know [TS]

  from first four years of the Obama [TS]

  administration you were that the head of [TS]

  the EPA is it a source of frustration [TS]

  for you that more companies don't seem [TS]

  to have a as high a priority on using [TS]

  renewable energy you know I think [TS]

  companies are are moving in that [TS]

  direction [TS]

  you know what what we always knew at EPA [TS]

  was really clear to me here is you know [TS]

  a business needs certainty and has to [TS]

  make decisions based on where policy is [TS]

  going where it thinks the world is going [TS]

  and it has been really clear to most big [TS]

  you know multinational companies I think [TS]

  for some time that we're going to be [TS]

  living in a carbon-constrained future [TS]

  and it's not clear how it's going to be [TS]

  constrained I mean there's the Paris [TS]

  climate Accords there are all kinds of [TS]

  policy discussions going on around the [TS]

  world about how to get to lower carbon [TS]

  and some countries are in the middle of [TS]

  that transformation in a very big way so [TS]

  I think a lot of companies over the last [TS]

  eight to ten years had to decide what to [TS]

  do and have made the decision to [TS]

  incorporate energy efficiency of course [TS]

  because that's cheaper and cleaner but [TS]

  also renewable energy and that's true in [TS]

  states like Texas certainly in states [TS]

  like California but you know we have a [TS]

  big data center in Nevada it's true [TS]

  there we have a big data center in North [TS]

  Carolina which is on its third solar [TS]

  farm now so you know I I don't when I [TS]

  left EPA the one thing I thought was [TS]

  because I'm an engineer a chemical [TS]

  engineer by training actually a lot [TS]

  around all these computer science and [TS]

  electrical engineers so go figure but [TS]

  you know I wanted to go back to my roots [TS]

  and sort of say I believe I've always [TS]

  believed that business has not just [TS]

  Rolle but a responsibility part of the [TS]

  reason I became an engineer or an [TS]

  environmental sort of engineer is that I [TS]

  remember being in school and thinking as [TS]

  a chemical engineer we make all this [TS]

  come this hazardous waste chemical [TS]

  engineers should be responsible as a [TS]

  profession for stopping this problem and [TS]

  so I think that's sort of how we think [TS]

  of it here and I think more companies [TS]

  are seeing it that way it is it is a [TS]

  little depressing that there's some old [TS]

  thinking out there still which is you [TS]

  can either have economic growth or you [TS]

  can have a clean environment but that's [TS]

  that's old-fashioned thinking and we [TS]

  really need people to sort of look look [TS]

  beyond that and really think about the [TS]

  problem and innovate around it [TS]

  that's something again I'm I'm very much [TS]

  a lay person in the expertise on this [TS]

  but it at a common-sense level it [TS]

  frustrates me to hear that argument of [TS]

  economic growth being tied to we can't [TS]

  spend money on we have to do things the [TS]

  cheapest way possible right now which [TS]

  would be to continue using fossil fuels [TS]

  and just spewing carbon into the air [TS]

  versus it's it's like an idealism that [TS]

  we can't afford to go to cleaner and [TS]

  renewable sources that's what frustrates [TS]

  me with that argument is that it isn't [TS]

  that where all this opportunity is where [TS]

  new companies or even existing companies [TS]

  could like a existing energy companies [TS]

  could stand to make a fortune if they [TS]

  make major breakthroughs in renewable [TS]

  energy well sound like an environmental [TS]

  and energy expert to me John I mean it's [TS]

  not surprising you see it because you [TS]

  were also used to the thinking in in the [TS]

  valley and it's not only in the valley [TS]

  but this idea that you know we need to [TS]

  apply the same level of innovation to [TS]

  the environment and our work to protect [TS]

  the planet as we do to the other work [TS]

  that we do in Apple's case to our [TS]

  products and as soon as you start to see [TS]

  innovation as the way forward then you [TS]

  realize that the only limitation is you [TS]

  know our imagination our creativity [TS]

  and our persistence you know the sweat [TS]

  you put into something so when we talk [TS]

  about wanting to use more recycled [TS]

  materials in our products it's about [TS]

  looking at a supply chain that right now [TS]

  it's just not going to be sustainable [TS]

  over time there won't be enough or some [TS]

  country might decide to you know control [TS]

  the supply of materials needed and the [TS]

  price just goes up so how can we get [TS]

  ahead of that it's all about innovation [TS]

  and not looking I also like to say [TS]

  because you know I am a little bit of a [TS]

  nerd that the thing about an engineer is [TS]

  that engineers wake up and at Apple is [TS]

  absolutely true we wake up when you give [TS]

  us a hard problem and we look at it as a [TS]

  challenge and if I have one complaint [TS]

  about my profession is that we need to [TS]

  continue to include the idea of ethics [TS]

  like you know solving the problem part [TS]

  of the elegant solution has to be [TS]

  thinking about whether it's truly a [TS]

  sustainable one economically sustainable [TS]

  yes but who's being harmed in this [TS]

  solution and I think good companies are [TS]

  there and I hope that customers start to [TS]

  expect and demand that of companies [TS]

  because right now I really believe that [TS]

  a lot of the leadership that we're going [TS]

  to see on these issues has to come from [TS]

  businesses who stand up and dispute this [TS]

  idea that they need to pollute in order [TS]

  to profit yeah I hope at least that it [TS]

  sort of changes from consumers may be [TS]

  like environmentally conscious consumers [TS]

  a smaller niche of them if you will [TS]

  keeping a whitelist of a handful of good [TS]

  companies who are environmentally [TS]

  conscious to more of a broader here's a [TS]

  blacklist of companies who are clearly [TS]

  disregarding the environment in their [TS]

  actions and operations I'm not going to [TS]

  do business with them because it's it I [TS]

  find that offensive [TS]

  yeah it's like a gray-green list you [TS]

  know kaki I think but yeah absolutely [TS]

  you know I just I agree with you and I [TS]

  also don't think I think consumers are [TS]

  you know sort of confused too because [TS]

  you have companies of all stripes [TS]

  standing up and claiming especially this [TS]

  week you know as we [TS]

  into Earth Day how you know sort of [TS]

  putting forth their green credentials [TS]

  and apples no different so I think it [TS]

  tends to make people a bit cynical so [TS]

  part of the videos was also opening up a [TS]

  little and showing that all these claims [TS]

  you make take work and effort and all [TS]

  these promises that we make you know we [TS]

  try not to make them if we don't know [TS]

  how we're going to get there but in some [TS]

  cases they they require a lot of [TS]

  persistence and so one of the [TS]

  frustrations I've had also is frankly [TS]

  there's a lot of people out there claim [TS]

  to say you know they make lists [TS]

  everybody makes lists but what I want [TS]

  people to know is that for me this [TS]

  company Apple is thinking you know years [TS]

  decades ahead about how to influence our [TS]

  sector the tech sector the consumer [TS]

  products sector and make it better [TS]

  and leave the world as Tim to say leave [TS]

  the world better than we found it one of [TS]

  the other announcements you guys have [TS]

  this week is that in a partnership with [TS]

  the WWF which when I see it I still [TS]

  think of the wrestling they would not [TS]

  like to hear that I know I know [TS]

  props the dough UWF it's but it's not [TS]

  the wrestling organization it's the no [TS]

  is the world wildlife right and you guys [TS]

  in partnership with them have gotten [TS]

  over 300,000 acres of working forests in [TS]

  China to be recommended for what's [TS]

  called the Forest Stewardship Council [TS]

  certification and that means that Apple [TS]

  is now protecting and creating a [TS]

  sustainable working forest as much as is [TS]

  needed to cover the your paper needs for [TS]

  the packaging that you guys make yeah in [TS]

  plain English does that mean that as [TS]

  much paper as you guys are using for [TS]

  packaging there's trees that are being [TS]

  regrown at the same rate that they're [TS]

  being used to turn into paper yeah I [TS]

  like that you know you see you should be [TS]

  in the video because you're explaining [TS]

  stuff really well - yeah that's exactly [TS]

  it [TS]

  um actually I just started that Apple [TS]

  and the woman who runs packaging amongst [TS]

  other things Kate Bergeron was we were [TS]

  all at dinner I went glass of wine and [TS]

  she was like you know I've been thinking [TS]

  for a long time we should buy a forest [TS]

  and it was sort of my introduction to [TS]

  you know think different at Apple this [TS]

  idea that somebody who does packaging [TS]

  would go that far deep in her thinking [TS]

  you know really analyzing the problem [TS]

  and of course she was trying to get at [TS]

  that very problem which is packaging is [TS]

  made out of paper [TS]

  by the way our packaging is increasingly [TS]

  almost entirely paper we tried we've [TS]

  tried to phase out plastics because we [TS]

  think paper can be a renewable resource [TS]

  and what if we controlled how that paper [TS]

  was you know how the wood was harvested [TS]

  and the Pope was made and so we didn't [TS]

  buy the forests ourselves but we found [TS]

  great partners in the u.s. we found a [TS]

  group called the Conservation Fund so we [TS]

  have 36 thousand acres in Maine and [TS]

  North Carolina that they've worked to [TS]

  preserve and ensure remain in [TS]

  sustainable forestry so working for us [TS]

  yes trees are chopped but trees are also [TS]

  planted and then we found WWF in China [TS]

  and there it's not a land ownership [TS]

  issue it was a management issue we have [TS]

  these big basically paper they call them [TS]

  plantations and making sure that they [TS]

  were being managed sustainably which has [TS]

  been a goal of China's as well so we [TS]

  found the right partner they have some [TS]

  great people on the ground in China [TS]

  Chinese folks who are really deeply [TS]

  involved in working with these Chinese [TS]

  businesses and we're really proud of the [TS]

  fact that based on the work they've done [TS]

  and just I think about two years we've [TS]

  gotten to the point where those forests [TS]

  the two of the three of them are [TS]

  producing enough sustainably and [TS]

  responsibly managed wood to cover our [TS]

  needs now we've also done something on [TS]

  the other end which is back to that old [TS]

  reduce reuse recycle we wanted to reduce [TS]

  how much virgin paper we need for [TS]

  packaging so we've really upped our work [TS]

  on using recycled paper and we've also [TS]

  upped our work to make packaging smaller [TS]

  and [TS]

  later whenever we can so we still have [TS]

  work to do [TS]

  you know this is some long road and so I [TS]

  don't want it to sound like we're there [TS]

  but we're really proud of the fact that [TS]

  this year we hit that Paul stone and and [TS]

  again this is another one of those [TS]

  things where the stakes are very high [TS]

  for Apple because Apple products are [TS]

  known for having beautiful packaging and [TS]

  so it's not enough to just say well [TS]

  we'll take out the plastic and we'll use [TS]

  cardboard or some kind of paper it has [TS]

  to be nice yeah it has to be more than [TS]

  nice right I mean I think that's maybe [TS]

  the thing I didn't emphasize enough I [TS]

  don't I didn't want to come here and do [TS]

  this in a way where people felt they [TS]

  were giving something up in order to do [TS]

  something good and I don't mean that to [TS]

  sound you know it's sort of like again [TS]

  back to your son you know he doesn't [TS]

  he's doing something good but it doesn't [TS]

  change his experience he still feels [TS]

  really good he's getting the water he [TS]

  needs I mean for us here at Apple we [TS]

  understand that you know our customers [TS]

  love our products they feel emotionally [TS]

  attached to the experience all the way [TS]

  from taking it home to unboxing it to [TS]

  turn it on the first time to see in the [TS]

  hello all the way through use and [TS]

  upgrade so none of that is what we're [TS]

  trying to impact and in fact we won't [TS]

  allow it to happen that way [TS]

  I don't I don't think anybody here would [TS]

  allow us to impact that what we're [TS]

  trying to do is make sure people [TS]

  understand that all these really smart [TS]

  people here are thinking about ways to [TS]

  make it green and better and produce [TS]

  without you no harm in the planet so you [TS]

  don't have to so you can feel really [TS]

  good about the purchase that you make so [TS]

  that you know that part of making the [TS]

  best products in the world is making the [TS]

  best products for the world I would like [TS]

  to talk this is an area where I just [TS]

  don't know much about it about [TS]

  transportation because just going back [TS]

  to that basic idea of like an assembly a [TS]

  plant in China that's that's [TS]

  manufacturing 150,000 iPhones a day and [TS]

  let's say it's September and there's a [TS]

  new iPhone and the day that it comes out [TS]

  there are millions of you pee [TS]

  drivers around North America ringing [TS]

  doorbells dropping off pre-ordered [TS]

  iPhones to get all those iPhones from [TS]

  China to North America and then once [TS]

  they get to North America to distribute [TS]

  them to everybody who purchased it [TS]

  there's an awful lot of fossil fuel [TS]

  being burned on that right yeah you know [TS]

  transportation as a sector for our [TS]

  carbon footprint it's actually a very [TS]

  small percentage of our carbon footprint [TS]

  I'll get you know number I'm looking as [TS]

  I speak but you know we do a [TS]

  comprehensive carbon footprint for Apple [TS]

  this year for 2016 for the year just [TS]

  past its twenty nine point five million [TS]

  metric tons and transportation of our [TS]

  product is four percent of that do the [TS]

  math really quickly included in that [TS]

  carbon footprint is you know some but [TS]

  some people say cradle to grave we're [TS]

  trying to get rid of the grave and and [TS]

  make a closed-loop system but right now [TS]

  all the way from the mine even though we [TS]

  don't you know we don't own mines we [TS]

  don't have relationship with mining [TS]

  companies but we estimate the you know [TS]

  the extraction and processing of let's [TS]

  say though you know alumina or to make [TS]

  aluminum enclosures all the way through [TS]

  a product use we actually include in our [TS]

  carbon footprint [TS]

  the the you know the use the electricity [TS]

  you use as an Apple customer because you [TS]

  wouldn't use that electricity if it [TS]

  wasn't for Apple so all the way to [TS]

  recycling so it's it's not a huge part [TS]

  of our carbon footprint but four percent [TS]

  is nothing to sneeze at the biggest part [TS]

  of our carbon footprint is actually in [TS]

  the manufacturing all those suppliers [TS]

  that are in our supply chain and so one [TS]

  of the other things we're doing is [TS]

  spending time with them now that we're [TS]

  at ninety six percent renewable we've [TS]

  learned a lot and so now we're trying to [TS]

  bring them along and this year we're [TS]

  announcing three new suppliers who've [TS]

  committed to go 100% renewable for all [TS]

  their operations compounds and Sun Rhoda [TS]

  and veal and that brings us to seven [TS]

  suppliers and I think that numbers can [TS]

  to keep going up I don't want to act [TS]

  like all of them are doing it just [TS]

  because of Apple but those seven have [TS]

  made an apple specific commitment and [TS]

  there are others who are doing it on [TS]

  their own [TS]

  so you know yes transportation is a [TS]

  problem that we need to think about and [TS]

  we can do that you know when you make a [TS]

  lighter product in a smaller package it [TS]

  helps with transportation emissions and [TS]

  when we think about marine so taking it [TS]

  by ship versus air that helps with [TS]

  transportation and so every little bit [TS]

  will help but we are tackling the [TS]

  biggest places first the hardest but in [TS]

  other words you guys aren't sweeping any [TS]

  aspect of it under the rug by saying [TS]

  well that's not us [TS]

  right like this is this is what Apple [TS]

  actual Apple employees are doing in [TS]

  Apple owned buildings and anything that [TS]

  happens from the mine until it gets [TS]

  there that we're not taking that into [TS]

  account you guys are really trying to [TS]

  account for everything [TS]

  yeah because because you can't change [TS]

  the world if you stop at your you know [TS]

  at your theoretical borders you have to [TS]

  change yourself first you have to lead [TS]

  by example and not demand of others what [TS]

  you're not willing to do but I think [TS]

  we're one of the few companies I won't [TS]

  say the only companies in the world who [TS]

  take this very comprehensive look at our [TS]

  carbon footprint and look to prefer we'd [TS]

  love to get it to zero which would mean [TS]

  that all those suppliers would be at [TS]

  zero carbon footprint and we're trying [TS]

  to do it right now [TS]

  not not using offsets or credits you [TS]

  know there might be some places in the [TS]

  world that is just not possible to do [TS]

  that right now but that's where we are [TS]

  that's why we're at 96% not not saying [TS]

  100 because we could get to 100 if we [TS]

  just bought bought some credit and so [TS]

  we're still working hard on that [TS]

  and yeah it feels really good to be that [TS]

  expansive because then you can inspire [TS]

  the energy folks you know the product [TS]

  power folks to make the most efficient [TS]

  products in the world because every time [TS]

  you save you know [TS]

  a wad of energy on on a Macbook you're [TS]

  saving a tremendous amount because we [TS]

  sell so many of them so it you know the [TS]

  more expansive you are the more I guess [TS]

  playing fields you have to play with to [TS]

  go back to the sports analogy yeah [TS]

  there's there's an old story from like [TS]

  the 80s of the the creation of the [TS]

  original Macintosh where where I forget [TS]

  somebody had a stopwatch and timed how [TS]

  long it took the prototype to startup [TS]

  mint and Steve Jobs said you got to get [TS]

  that you got to cut 30 seconds off of [TS]

  that and they're like why and he's like [TS]

  well we're going to sell millions of [TS]

  these things multiplied by that by 30 [TS]

  seconds and you get like you know came [TS]

  out like I don't know 87 years because [TS]

  there you go you saved a life yeah yeah [TS]

  and it's like that with energy right [TS]

  you'd say yeah you take a you know 70 [TS]

  million iPhones and a quarter and if you [TS]

  can make them a little bit more [TS]

  energy-efficient every little bit you [TS]

  multiply by the 70 million that were [TS]

  just sold and it adds up I think the [TS]

  number is something like since 2008 on [TS]

  average our products are 70% more [TS]

  efficient more energy efficient and [TS]

  there's been some great you know big [TS]

  technical technology innovations in [TS]

  there and I also want to be really clear [TS]

  back to that idea that you don't have to [TS]

  sacrifice those are all things that make [TS]

  the experience better you know energy [TS]

  efficiency the flip side of that is [TS]

  battery life you know if something [TS]

  doesn't use a lot of energy you need a [TS]

  smaller battery or you need a battery or [TS]

  your battery of whatever size you know [TS]

  goes longer it goes longer on a charge [TS]

  so all these things tend to have sort of [TS]

  compounding reasons and sometimes [TS]

  they're even based on the customer [TS]

  experience but there's a happy sort of [TS]

  you know carbon benefit as at the same [TS]

  time or environmental benefit to you you [TS]

  said earlier that this this sort of [TS]

  thinking shouldn't be seen as partisan [TS]

  that it really and I think that the [TS]

  cynics take on that would be that Apple [TS]

  as the most profitable company in the [TS]

  world can afford to be can afford to [TS]

  spend on this idealism but I [TS]

  I think your argument would be that no [TS]

  it's Apple as the most profitable [TS]

  country in the world can show that [TS]

  having a focus on this sort of stuff is [TS]

  not at odds with being profitable yeah [TS]

  no I mean it's the right thing to do I [TS]

  don't think I think if you go back to [TS]

  sort of you know core human values you [TS]

  know protecting the planet where we live [TS]

  where our children you know grow up [TS]

  where we work the places that we you [TS]

  know used to fish or swim as a kid the [TS]

  drinking water that we all honestly take [TS]

  for granted because we most of us [TS]

  haven't had the experience to say people [TS]

  in Flint where you literally have to you [TS]

  know shower and wash your face with [TS]

  bottled water I mean all those things [TS]

  are just Goods and so you know when when [TS]

  when we think about the environment it [TS]

  shouldn't you know our our position is [TS]

  we're not we're not taking a side in [TS]

  terms of whether any political [TS]

  approaches right we're just saying this [TS]

  is something that is definitely a good [TS]

  it's good to have to be efficient to be [TS]

  thoughtful and careful kind of it you [TS]

  know what my grandmother said you know [TS]

  waste not want not this idea that you [TS]

  know in a in a world where we have been [TS]

  incredibly fortunate as a country or as [TS]

  a people to think of that as our [TS]

  responsibility I think it you know for [TS]

  me it's sort of almost a moral thing but [TS]

  yeah it's it's it's not about having the [TS]

  money to do it it's about figuring out [TS]

  the innovations that would then you know [TS]

  hopefully spread out like ripples and [TS]

  allow others to do it too I think if you [TS]

  went to someone who right now has a [TS]

  utility bill and there was a way that [TS]

  they could have cleaner energy that [TS]

  would also reduce their utility bill [TS]

  they would be for it and so that's a [TS]

  policy question I don't think it depends [TS]

  on what party you're in if you ask [TS]

  somebody do you would you rather have [TS]

  solar power I think it's kind of a cool [TS]

  thing where do you see the role that the [TS]

  between the government and [TS]

  you know in the US like the EPA and a [TS]

  business like Apple taking initiative on [TS]

  its own to do these things [TS]

  yeah you know we um from the EPA [TS]

  perspective there wasn't a ton of places [TS]

  where EPA and Apple intersected EPA is a [TS]

  regulatory agency and there are [TS]

  regulations that definitely affect the [TS]

  technology sector but you know [TS]

  regulations in many cases not all cases [TS]

  are meant to set the floor [TS]

  there's definitely they just can't set [TS]

  the ceiling and in fact if they set a [TS]

  ceiling they're not doing the right [TS]

  thing they should be there to help [TS]

  innovation go forward and you know I'm [TS]

  not for every single piece of regulation [TS]

  especially those that seem to be picking [TS]

  you know which innovations should or [TS]

  shouldn't go forward I think that [TS]

  requires real thoughtfulness but you [TS]

  know I think for companies like ours [TS]

  it's not to say we don't have times when [TS]

  we have regulations that affect us it's [TS]

  not to say you know I don't want anybody [TS]

  walk away from this thinking we figured [TS]

  out how to do it right all the time we [TS]

  will have problems like any other [TS]

  company will but our general orientation [TS]

  is to trying to do the best we can to [TS]

  meet the goals we've set for ourselves [TS]

  around climate change around greener [TS]

  materials and around conserving and [TS]

  being really smart and not wasteful [TS]

  about resources all right one last [TS]

  question I have for you where where do [TS]

  you think Apple is least up to snuff [TS]

  like where is the where where can you [TS]

  guys improve it where do you guys have [TS]

  the most opportunity for improvement oh [TS]

  and that's like the interview question [TS]

  when they ask you for your one flaw you [TS]

  know you don't answer that but I mean [TS]

  there there are tons of things that I [TS]

  wish I could snap my fingers I would be [TS]

  done you know I I wish we could make [TS]

  a better connection with our customers [TS]

  so we got more of our products back at [TS]

  end of life I think we have a ton of [TS]

  work to do I mean we just outlined this [TS]

  big hairy goal around starting to close [TS]

  loops for different materials and so I [TS]

  think that that's going to be a big area [TS]

  of focus for us I mean it's a it has to [TS]

  be done in a way that that maintains all [TS]

  the things that Apple so Apple is that's [TS]

  a great so that's a great point [TS]

  somebody buys let's say a MacBook Pro [TS]

  and they use it for the next four or [TS]

  five years and I get a great time out of [TS]

  it and they upgrade and they take that [TS]

  old one and they just put it in a closet [TS]

  and they think well this this old [TS]

  MacBook Pro it's still good but you know [TS]

  I'm gonna get a new one I put in a [TS]

  closet and a couple more years go by and [TS]

  they're like why do I still have this [TS]

  old MacBook Pro right and at that point [TS]

  at least that's the way I test the way [TS]

  my closet works at that point it's you [TS]

  don't want them to just put it in the [TS]

  trash you want them to do you know like [TS]

  the the fact that this complicated fancy [TS]

  laptop is made out of recyclable [TS]

  materials it's it's not you can't just [TS]

  put it in the blue recycling bin where [TS]

  your aluminum cans go to get it properly [TS]

  recycled great what we'd love to have [TS]

  happen is that it comes back either to [TS]

  an Apple store or that you go online and [TS]

  ask for a mailing box or envelope will [TS]

  take back at the stores any any product [TS]

  any Apple product you bring in that's [TS]

  our app over new program we you know we [TS]

  are also emphasizing in the stores the [TS]

  programs that we have that allow you to [TS]

  upgrade so if you're a tech person who [TS]

  does like the latest technology we want [TS]

  that you know we want last year's or the [TS]

  year before model back because it still [TS]

  has value first off with you know a lot [TS]

  of the reason people love Apple is that [TS]

  if you want to sell your product [TS]

  yourself or trade it in it has a great [TS]

  value but at the end of life and that [TS]

  could be you know [TS]

  long time away I mean we have people [TS]

  still rocking fours and I think threes [TS]

  out there but you know when and when the [TS]

  time comes we still like to have it back [TS]

  it is a bit of a challenge by the way to [TS]

  then make sure all that material gets [TS]

  back in the recycling chain because it's [TS]

  you know it's very different and very [TS]

  diverse we're starting to have quite a [TS]

  bit of a catalog back behind us um but [TS]

  that's part of the challenge when I was [TS]

  them that was the video that was shown [TS]

  when you were on stage a few events ago [TS]

  with the robot who disassembles iPhones [TS]

  yeah Liam Liam Liam is actually a twin [TS]

  now here in California and actually over [TS]

  in Europe yeah and the idea was to think [TS]

  about that disassembly step and [TS]

  understand if you think of this thing as [TS]

  a chain or a big circle every step [TS]

  influences the one before and again so [TS]

  how do you disassemble this product and [TS]

  do it in a way where you maximize the [TS]

  ability to maybe get tin back or get [TS]

  aluminum back or as we're starting to [TS]

  look at with batteries get cobalt back [TS]

  and so when you start to think about [TS]

  this challenge not to not to scare [TS]

  myself which I can do it's you know it's [TS]

  material by material component by [TS]

  component product by product because the [TS]

  camera is different in you know the [TS]

  iPhone you know six than it is in the [TS]

  iPhone 7 so those are all challenges [TS]

  were willing to take on but you know the [TS]

  customer's role in that is to wherever [TS]

  possible I'm not asking anybody give up [TS]

  their first the first iPhone but [TS]

  wherever possible to to get those [TS]

  products back to Apple and the other [TS]

  thing that's online that's really [TS]

  important is a lot of people have [TS]

  security concerns your your life is on [TS]

  your device and so to make sure you wipe [TS]

  it we'll we'll be looking out to do that [TS]

  as well but a lot of people don't want [TS]

  to part with them because of the data [TS]

  that's on it so there's instructions on [TS]

  how to do that as well yeah that's a [TS]

  good point [TS]

  anything else that you wanted to talk [TS]

  about today [TS]

  no I guess we covered it we got it we [TS]

  got to give a shout out to Drexel right [TS]

  I say hi to my son Brian who's a dragon [TS]

  hey Jackson go dragons alright now [TS]

  that's a amazing connection between [TS]

  between the two of us your son is doing [TS]

  game with a game design game development [TS]

  at yeah yes I'm hoping that is an actual [TS]

  major but it wasn't when I was there but [TS]

  I actually know the program I am [TS]

  familiar with it and the adder I am [TS]

  seizing it is an amazing program and I [TS]

  am a huge fan of the school so shout out [TS]

  to Brian and his friends and the amazing [TS]

  group over there that's all it would be [TS]

  news it would be pretty funny to imagine [TS]

  some college students just sit around [TS]

  playing PlayStation all day and tells [TS]

  his mom unstudied Gabe does huh and like [TS]

  your son is young but let me just tell [TS]

  you beware make it real smart real fast [TS]

  real fast [TS]

  Lisa Jackson thank you so much for your [TS]

  time it has been an absolute pleasure [TS]

  talking I gotcha [TS]

  have a good birthday and I hope that [TS]

  hope to see you soon thanks a birthday [TS]