Hello Internet

H.I #81: Adpocalypse


  all right I'm gonna minimize the brady [TS]

  for maximum bandwidth yeah breathing is [TS]

  gonna make the don't minimize me joke no [TS]

  I checked for ages now you haven't you [TS]

  have an almost method I never don't [TS]

  think remember a while back I told you [TS]

  about my little experiment where I [TS]

  changed my gray icon on all my system [TS]

  from being your flask and gear symbol [TS]

  Harter like a smiling gray face because [TS]

  I thought it would make me feel more [TS]

  fondly towards you when you send your [TS]

  robotic text messages and emails to me [TS]

  that you still fear yes yes you found my [TS]

  messages too brief and too cold and you [TS]

  thought a happier picture might improve [TS]

  the situation as I remember yeah how's [TS]

  that going I think it's worked you know [TS]

  oh yeah I think has worked so after [TS]

  running the experiment for a while my [TS]

  advice is if there's someone who pisses [TS]

  you off a little bit with their [TS]

  messaging change the picture to like the [TS]

  friendliest possible picture and it [TS]

  changes the way you view the person hmm [TS]

  like a text messaging psychological [TS]

  start over that's what's happening yeah [TS]

  you just look happier more of the time [TS]

  to me and I don't imagine you being all [TS]

  sort of grumpy and robotic with your [TS]

  brief replies I'm picturing you smiling [TS]

  as you think about me Freddie [TS]

  every time I send you a text message I [TS]

  send it with a smile yeah you're a real [TS]

  smile a minute you are I'm amazed I even [TS]

  have a picture of you smiling that [TS]

  wasn't great get so gray you know I [TS]

  spend a lot of time thinking about the [TS]

  Marty Blackstone yeah I dunno you spend [TS]

  a lot of time thinking about that might [TS]

  be bland stuff there is now a Wikipedia [TS]

  article just dedicated to the tallest [TS]

  buildings in Adelaide and whoever made [TS]

  that by the way you are my personal hero [TS]

  I was a little bit humbled though when I [TS]

  saw that the tallest building in [TS]

  Adelaide is actually the 115th tallest [TS]

  building in Australia I was gonna like [TS]

  Wikipedia they have the lists of [TS]

  everything but I was wondering a list of [TS]

  the tallest buildings in Adelaide how [TS]

  tall can these buildings actually be and [TS]

  that sounds like that's the answer [TS]

  this article though makes for [TS]

  fascinating reading on numerous levels [TS]

  it does partly because there's a whole [TS]

  bunch of buildings that have been [TS]

  proved or under construction and it's [TS]

  going to turn the world upside down I [TS]

  mean a whole bunch of the approved ones [TS]

  will be taller than the black stamp one [TS]

  will even beat older than the current [TS]

  tallest so it's all happening in [TS]

  Adelaide yeah I imagine so I'm looking [TS]

  at this list and the mighty black stump [TS]

  also known as the grenfell Center on [TS]

  this list which I think probably should [TS]

  be amended if someone's really diligent [TS]

  out there [TS]

  yeah it's number three on this list this [TS]

  is what I want to talk about uh-huh [TS]

  this needs to be settled because you may [TS]

  remember when I spoke to the sort of the [TS]

  building manager of the mighty black [TS]

  stamp when I visited and he told me that [TS]

  it was the second tallest building and [TS]

  he was upset that there were articles [TS]

  going around that were claiming it was [TS]

  third and this third place position for [TS]

  the black stamp is becoming more and [TS]

  more entrenched on the internet and fair [TS]

  enough if that's the fact of the matter [TS]

  I'll accept it but I've got a suspicion [TS]

  that it's not over do you [TS]

  you think this the hell straw house [TS]

  which is claiming to be one meter taller [TS]

  you think there's some shenanigans going [TS]

  on there yeah and I don't know whether [TS]

  or not this 103 meters versus 104 meters [TS]

  mm-hmm I think maybe that refers to like [TS]

  the top of the building and not maybe [TS]

  masts and things on top which probably [TS]

  should be included I don't know but I [TS]

  want to get to the bottom of it but I [TS]

  have no resources available to me other [TS]

  than the Internet and the Internet has [TS]

  this kind of self-perpetuating aspect to [TS]

  it where everyone just copies everything [TS]

  else off the previous articles and I get [TS]

  the feeling that everywhere I look I'm [TS]

  just reading the same stuff from the [TS]

  same source yeah so I need someone with [TS]

  like contacts and influence and maybe [TS]

  access to sort of blueprints and [TS]

  surveying equipment or something I want [TS]

  to settle once and for all what is [TS]

  taller between Telstra house at 30 Perry [TS]

  Street and the Grenville Center at 25 [TS]

  grand fall straight to be second place [TS]

  as Adelaide's told us building behind [TS]

  Westpac house which is a runaway winner [TS]

  obviously runaway winner of course [TS]

  obviously I've loaded up Adelaide here [TS]

  on the 3d Apple maps on the computer [TS]

  yeah this is trying to see which one [TS]

  looks taller as though I can see a [TS]

  metres difference in this 3d [TS]

  representation close to each other these [TS]

  two [TS]

  it looks like they are across the street [TS]

  from each other not quite actually no [TS]

  are they even on the same block or am I [TS]

  looking at a different building I think [TS]

  maybe Telstra houses maybe not quite the [TS]

  same block I'm not sure that's it here's [TS]

  the thing Brady I know this is once [TS]

  again evidence of how the mighty black [TS]

  stump is mighty in your mind but is not [TS]

  necessarily super obvious on the actual [TS]

  skyline of Adelaide I think it is [TS]

  because it's like so black it's like [TS]

  it's been painted with that vente black [TS]

  that is like the blackest substance [TS]

  known to man when you look at the [TS]

  Adelaide skyline it's not noticeable [TS]

  because of its height it's noticeable [TS]

  because of its blackness no no of course [TS]

  I understand no they are right next to [TS]

  each other it looks like there's a tiny [TS]

  little church in between these two rival [TS]

  buildings for second place in the city [TS]

  they're right next to each other yeah [TS]

  actually yeah they are very close to [TS]

  each other now that I look at the map [TS]

  yeah but this needs to be sorted gray by [TS]

  experts and it needs to be sorted in my [TS]

  favor preferably again do you want to [TS]

  count it looks like there's a little [TS]

  antenna on top of the mighty black stump [TS]

  should antennas count do you think that [TS]

  it should count if it works in your [TS]

  favor it shouldn't count if it doesn't [TS]

  work in your favor I think that sums up [TS]

  my attitude yes okay that's the way that [TS]

  works yeah [TS]

  can we get some people to do that kind [TS]

  of surveying you do when you're looking [TS]

  at mountains with these two buildings in [TS]

  Adelaide yeah that's what I'm hoping for [TS]

  triangulates from known heights the [TS]

  heights of these two buildings I would [TS]

  like to see that and you know I don't [TS]

  want to make promises mm-hmm but H I [TS]

  medals of Honor could be at stake here [TS]

  depending on the result yeah depending [TS]

  on the result and be aware dear [TS]

  listeners I will find it nothing but [TS]

  hilarious [TS]

  if the Grenville centre mighty black [TS]

  stump is firmly solidified in third [TS]

  place that would be hilarious for me not [TS]

  so hilarious for Brady well [TS]

  interestingly I'm looking at that [TS]

  picture that you sent and I mean toaster [TS]

  building does look a little bit taller [TS]

  from that angle but you can't really [TS]

  tell yeah also by the way you don't know [TS]

  this but I'll tell you so that you're [TS]

  fully in the picture the tallest [TS]

  building is also in that picture just [TS]

  the bottom part of it hmm in the top [TS]

  right corner of that picture you sent [TS]

  you see like a sort of a oh right Riano [TS]

  page building that's the tallest [TS]

  building but so what you're telling me [TS]

  no matter what the current situation is [TS]

  which of these buildings is a metre [TS]

  taller than the other yeah there's going [TS]

  to be a lot of new construction [TS]

  in the ever dynamic urban core that is [TS]

  Adelaide that's going to dwarf all of [TS]

  these buildings if that's what's [TS]

  happening here yeah well not Toto be cuz [TS]

  one of the nice things about Adelaide is [TS]

  it's not too tall like then they do that [TS]

  on purpose cousins you know pleasant [TS]

  place we don't want all your big nasty [TS]

  skyscrapers nothing worse than a [TS]

  skyscraper the pinnacle of human [TS]

  achievement you don't want that Natalie [TS]

  now don't get me wrong don't get me [TS]

  wrong you know I do love a good skies [TS]

  mate but the funny thing is I'm here [TS]

  saying come on someone help me out my [TS]

  job when I was the Civic reporter at the [TS]

  Adelaide Advertiser [TS]

  was actually going to the Adelaide City [TS]

  Council archives and looking at all the [TS]

  planning applications and getting them [TS]

  all out because I would report on you [TS]

  know new buildings that were going to be [TS]

  built so I am the man to do this [TS]

  but unfortunately I'm just too far away [TS]

  from Adelaide now so you don't want to [TS]

  do it for the love of journalism brady [TS]

  go fly down and do a little [TS]

  investigative reporting yourself to find [TS]

  this out no you don't want to do oh [TS]

  maybe maybe we considered a Kickstarter [TS]

  this is a sort of a mission to go down [TS]

  to Adelaide measure some buildings I [TS]

  feel like there's got to be a video in [TS]

  this somewhere for you Brady right on [TS]

  your building file channel or whatever [TS]

  like somewhere there's a YouTube video [TS]

  of you going down to Adelaide to measure [TS]

  these two buildings that are next to [TS]

  each other there's got to be a place [TS]

  that you have to put that off or the [TS]

  book I'm writing will hook up publishing [TS]

  down out the comprehensive history of [TS]

  the muddy black stuff from when it was [TS]

  just a twinkle in someone's eye right [TS]

  through to when it was finally surpassed [TS]

  as the tallest building in Adelaide [TS]

  somehow this feels like an inevitability [TS]

  I'll just wait for the publication I [TS]

  don't know I guess a lot of Tim's would [TS]

  buy it but other than that I don't think [TS]

  there's going to be an obviously like [TS]

  building manager of the building might [TS]

  but the one who thinks I'm crazy after I [TS]

  gave him a t-shirt really I don't think [TS]

  this is a project that you're doing for [TS]

  the money I think this is a project [TS]

  you're doing for the love and I can just [TS]

  interject that all right this is a [TS]

  passion project of yours mighty black [TS]

  stamp watch this space come on let's [TS]

  pull together here wisdom of the crowds [TS]

  and all that let's figure this one out [TS]

  speaking of architectural marvels that [TS]

  have been written into hello internet [TS]

  law I am going to Dulles this weekend oh [TS]

  are you I am I'm flying to Washington no [TS]

  not even this weekend I'm in two days [TS]

  time from when we're speaking Brady you [TS]

  exhaust me with your seemingly from my [TS]

  perspective constant flying [TS]

  know that I have a like a selection bias [TS]

  here that I hear about all the time that [TS]

  your fly so it feels more frequent than [TS]

  it probably really is but it seems to me [TS]

  like you are constantly John ting to [TS]

  different areas of the world to film [TS]

  things to go on vacation for exciting [TS]

  travels to meet Russian poets you're [TS]

  just doing amazing things around the [TS]

  world constantly and I feel like I can [TS]

  never keep up well at this point I would [TS]

  interject and correct you and add some [TS]

  clarification but you just made me sound [TS]

  so awesome that I'm just going to let [TS]

  that fly ya know just let it slide man [TS]

  it's totally fine and this is how you [TS]

  are in my mind you're like some kind of [TS]

  modern adventurer except with airplanes [TS]

  with the amount of traveling that you're [TS]

  the Russian poet thing was a nice touch [TS]

  as well it made me feel that Lord Byron [TS]

  or something I'm just describing your [TS]

  life to you man that's all I'm doing [TS]

  that's not how my life feels but it's so [TS]

  cool I'm just gonna keep going I am [TS]

  going to Washington for the National [TS]

  math festival Oh as part of my [TS]

  numberphile and MSRI responsibilities [TS]

  I'm looking forward to doing a couple of [TS]

  live shows with Matt Parker and the very [TS]

  exciting one with cliff style the crazy [TS]

  Klein bottle guy he's also good value so [TS]

  I would spend more time promoting it but [TS]

  by the time this podcast has gone out it [TS]

  will have been in God and then I'm going [TS]

  to Miami where I've never been before [TS]

  for a brief holiday and then I'm coming [TS]

  home but the thing I want to know from [TS]

  you is how to prepare myself for my [TS]

  Dulles experience because I'm pretty [TS]

  sure this is going to be my first time [TS]

  there what do I look for what do I do [TS]

  like talk me through it well it all [TS]

  depends on where you're getting in I [TS]

  presume that you're going to be landing [TS]

  in the international terminal because I [TS]

  get tweets from people who are like oh [TS]

  I'm in Dulles it's not so bad right and [TS]

  that's the voice that they're using in [TS]

  my head when they tweet those things [TS]

  yeah and that is because they are in the [TS]

  domestic a B terminals terrible [TS]

  terminals the old terminals with [TS]

  inconsistent heating and low ceilings [TS]

  and smelly carpets is the CD terminals [TS]

  which are generally used for [TS]

  international flights so I'm gonna guess [TS]

  that you're probably in there yeah [TS]

  now can we remember off the top of our [TS]

  head one of those gates was a cursed [TS]

  gate where an accident took place on a [TS]

  previous episode hello Internet well [TS]

  loop that up yeah we got to find that [TS]

  out Brady so that's obviously one of the [TS]

  tourist spots that you need to go and [TS]

  point at that's [TS]

  to be on your list Thank You Fido of it [TS]

  yep yeah now it's funny that you [TS]

  mentioned this because I have not [TS]

  verified this I'm going to be relying on [TS]

  your journalistic skills to verify this [TS]

  I have just heard today breaking Dulles [TS]

  news that the at transports are no [TS]

  longer in operation at that Airport oh [TS]

  yeah I don't know if it's true I can't [TS]

  verify this firsthand I'm going to rely [TS]

  on you to let me know what the situation [TS]

  is down there with what happened did [TS]

  Luke Skywalker cut a hole in the bottom [TS]

  I want to throw a charge into it yeah [TS]

  okay Disney was like you need to pay as [TS]

  licensing rights for you things one of [TS]

  the two I know that there has been a lot [TS]

  bunch of redevelopment work at Dulles to [TS]

  try to take it from worst Airport in the [TS]

  world to just marginally acceptable [TS]

  Airport in the world and as part of that [TS]

  I saw a construction on some kind of [TS]

  train transport between the terminals [TS]

  last time I was there and so I've just [TS]

  heard that that is now done and those at [TS]

  transports might be over which quite [TS]

  frankly I'll be a little sad about if [TS]

  that is true because it was by far and [TS]

  away the most remarkable and most [TS]

  interesting thing at Dulles Airport and [TS]

  now even that will be gone which makes [TS]

  it even less interesting I'm gutted I [TS]

  was so looking for that was the one [TS]

  thing I was looking forward to I know [TS]

  it's the only thing a person can look [TS]

  forward to at that Airport I hope I'm [TS]

  wrong I'll hear about that from you in [TS]

  the future otherwise no the best thing I [TS]

  can tell you to do is if you're landing [TS]

  there just get out as fast as you can [TS]

  after visiting the cursed gate at Dulles [TS]

  Airport Hara I'll let you know how a guy [TS]

  I'll report back with the pictures and [TS]

  all that sort of stuff [TS]

  pointing pointing pictures speaking also [TS]

  of sort of breaking news of things we [TS]

  like to follow and again I'm a little [TS]

  bit in the dark here but this is [TS]

  potentially huge [TS]

  hmm CGP grey the penguin the lady [TS]

  penguin right if you have a look at the [TS]

  link that I've put there in the notes [TS]

  apparently Bristol Zoo where CGP grey [TS]

  the penguin lives hmm has sent 19 of its [TS]

  young South African penguins to Tbilisi [TS]

  is that how you pronounce it capital of [TS]

  Georgia oh yeah two Blissett I'm very [TS]

  familiar with Tbilisi that is exactly [TS]

  how you pronounce a 19 penguins have [TS]

  been sent there to the penguin pool at [TS]

  Tbilisi Zoo [TS]

  mm-hmm they had some problems there [TS]

  recently with flooding and the zoo [TS]

  suffered a lot of damage and animal [TS]

  losses along with human losses and sort [TS]

  of because Bristol is sort of the sister [TS]

  city of Tbilisi the zoos are sort of [TS]

  friendly so these penguins have been [TS]

  sent and if it's a young South African [TS]

  penguin and 19 of them have gone you [TS]

  know I'm thinking are you telling me [TS]

  that CGP grey the penguin might have [TS]

  died in a flood and I Georgia is that [TS]

  what you're telling me this article that [TS]

  you've sent me says two hundred and [TS]

  eighty-one of the zoo's thousand plus [TS]

  animals died in this disaster now grey [TS]

  the penguins have been sent after the [TS]

  flood to help restock the zoo okay [TS]

  that's less alarming yes sorry other [TS]

  animals I are not named after me I care [TS]

  much less about your well-being so what [TS]

  I'm saying is I don't know but it's [TS]

  possible that grey has left the country [TS]

  this is going to make it much more [TS]

  difficult for you to keep up your [TS]

  regular and ongoing correspondence with [TS]

  CGP creator penguin that you have so [TS]

  diligently maintained low these past [TS]

  years and months keeping the audience [TS]

  updated on what she's up to [TS]

  you've been so diligent about it this is [TS]

  going to make that a bit more difficult [TS]

  but I'm sure you'll keep doing just as [TS]

  good of a job as you have been doing in [TS]

  the future if she actually has left I [TS]

  was fondly sucking myself up to go and [TS]

  do this visit now maybe she's not even [TS]

  there I love that you're telling [TS]

  yourself like oh you were psyching [TS]

  yourself up for this visit like I was [TS]

  just about to visit I feel like when I [TS]

  was a kid and my parents would yell at [TS]

  me to clean my room I always had this [TS]

  feeling like ah I was just about to [TS]

  write but there's no way I was really [TS]

  just about to like now that I'm being [TS]

  told to do a thing like you have this [TS]

  reverse memory of like I was just about [TS]

  to why'd you have to bother me so you [TS]

  kind of think you were just about to [TS]

  visit this penguin you only feel that [TS]

  way because now there's a possibility [TS]

  that you can't okay that's true but [TS]

  isn't it really frustrating at those [TS]

  times when you were just about to do [TS]

  something and then you get told to do it [TS]

  and you know no I really was just about [TS]

  to do it but how do you distinguish that [TS]

  feeling from just the constant feeling [TS]

  and what it does happen right I think [TS]

  this is like a false memory you know [TS]

  when you were really going to do it so [TS]

  anyway ctp gray the lady penguin wing [TS]

  tag number a 205 83 mm-hmm I don't know [TS]

  where she is [TS]

  it's been a holiday here in the UK since [TS]

  I found out the news frustratingly it's [TS]

  been a four-day holiday over Easter as I [TS]

  can't contact anyone at the zoo but uh [TS]

  we need to get on this I think the more [TS]

  exciting thing is for some Tbilisi Tim's [TS]

  with a zoom lens to go out to the zoo [TS]

  and try to find the lady penguin CGP [TS]

  grey out there if they can I think [TS]

  that's what should happen [TS]

  Tbilisi Tim's you were called upon in [TS]

  this moment you weren't expecting this [TS]

  yeah but we're relying on you so put on [TS]

  hold that trip to Adelaide you were [TS]

  doing to survey the muddy black stump [TS]

  and first of all head to your local Zoo [TS]

  and check out the Penguins [TS]

  I mean I'd feel a bit sad if they went [TS]

  there and it turns out grey hasn't been [TS]

  moved but that's part of it that's part [TS]

  of it just go carefully catalog all of [TS]

  the serial numbers of all of the [TS]

  Penguins and let us know let us know [TS]

  what the situation is I wonder if it [TS]

  kept its wing tag and number or it has [TS]

  to get like a tbilisi wing tag with a [TS]

  new number and the other ones been cut [TS]

  off I don't know hmm feels like there [TS]

  should be some sort of international [TS]

  identification number system for zoos [TS]

  transferring animals back and forth [TS]

  otherwise like if you're loaning a zoo [TS]

  an animal how do you know if you got the [TS]

  same one back if you're allowed to cut [TS]

  off the tags I feel like those tags have [TS]

  to be the same everywhere good point [TS]

  they don't let they come on and off very [TS]

  easily either but they must come off [TS]

  there because presumably the wing grows [TS]

  and they need to put bigger tags on I [TS]

  don't know there's a lot of unanswered [TS]

  questions here I really we're rapidly [TS]

  wandering into like meat security [TS]

  questions here's like somebody out there [TS]

  it's their job to deal with the [TS]

  technology behind the tags on a penguin [TS]

  fake and they're like screaming at the [TS]

  podcast right now I thought the answer [TS]

  to this question I do this all day this [TS]

  is the third podcast this week I've [TS]

  heard get that wrong speaking of animals [TS]

  orgies snoring a bit so I'm just gonna [TS]

  give her a little nudge with my foot [TS]

  stop snoring stop it oh I'll send you [TS]

  the tibula see [TS]

  oh poor Audrey I would never do that she [TS]

  knows a little delicate background [TS]

  snores they can be part of the podcast [TS]

  it's not only fine [TS]

  this episodes been brought to you by [TS]

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  making this episode possible you may [TS]

  remember Brady on the podcast long ago [TS]

  I may have complained a little bit about [TS]

  the way Kindles [TS]

  format the text on screen I don't know [TS]

  if this sounds familiar to you or not it [TS]

  was a minor annoyance of yours I seem to [TS]

  recall there was a minor annoyance that [TS]

  was like a dagger in my soul every time [TS]

  I tried to use a Kindle yeah so much so [TS]

  that I eventually abandoned my beloved [TS]

  Kindle and went over to iBooks because [TS]

  knows how you're supposed to format text [TS]

  on a screen and Kindle did not well I [TS]

  would be remiss if I did not mention [TS]

  that remarkably as of yesterday a mere [TS]

  several decades after Kindles have come [TS]

  out they have finally released an update [TS]

  that allows a reader to have a ragged [TS]

  right on their text to left align all of [TS]

  the words on the page it's an amazing [TS]

  moment for all of us [TS]

  I must have received ten twenty thousand [TS]

  tweets letting me know that there was a [TS]

  software update for Kindles that finally [TS]

  allowed the thing that I asked about for [TS]

  so long for so passionately that I [TS]

  wanted it is now here and it's available [TS]

  if you have a Kindle people go update [TS]

  the software on your Kindle you too can [TS]

  experience an amazing reading experience [TS]

  huge man it's like the JFK assassination [TS]

  where were you when can define and went [TS]

  right ragged I remember where I was I [TS]

  was at home I had a Kindle and I was [TS]

  pressing the update my Kindle button [TS]

  right like I want to see this software [TS]

  update like update update update my [TS]

  Kindle was going like I don't know what [TS]

  you're talking about there's no software [TS]

  update available I was shaking my fist [TS]

  and like curse you CDN like this update [TS]

  hasn't been distributed yet to the UK or [TS]

  wherever it is in your Amazon network so [TS]

  actually like I like I want to see this [TS]

  right now so I went onto the kindle [TS]

  support page and like hard downloaded [TS]

  the software update manually transferred [TS]

  via USB over to the Kindle did like a [TS]

  force reboot update of the device with [TS]

  like I need to see what this looks like [TS]

  first hand I can't trust people's [TS]

  reports of how it looks I need to see [TS]

  this for myself and the answer is it [TS]

  looks like books are supposed to look so [TS]

  it's fantastic that sounds like quite a [TS]

  day you know sometimes I think I [TS]

  couldn't make up stories to make you fit [TS]

  your stereotype any better than the [TS]

  actual stories that you tell what do you [TS]

  mean baby I could have made that up if [TS]

  someone said make up a story that makes [TS]

  gray sound like really pedantic and [TS]

  nerdy and into technology I wouldn't [TS]

  have come up with a better story than [TS]

  the one you just told what about doing [TS]

  the manual update like who actually sits [TS]

  looking to screen saying curse you CDM [TS]

  but that's what it is like they just [TS]

  haven't distributed the update to all of [TS]

  the networks yet I know I understand [TS]

  what happened I didn't want to wait it [TS]

  seems very straightforward to me okay [TS]

  let's all thing and is this going to [TS]

  result in you going back to Kindle here [TS]

  is the interesting thing the interesting [TS]

  thing is why did I have a Kindle to [TS]

  update in the first place because I had [TS]

  abandoned Kindle a long time ago and I [TS]

  hated their old paperwhite Kindle hmm so [TS]

  Amazon has been very slowly trying to [TS]

  make their typography better and over [TS]

  the summer they introduced a precursor [TS]

  to this which was actually hyphenating [TS]

  words correctly so they used to never [TS]

  even break words at the syllable level [TS]

  on the edge of a page they used to just [TS]

  have these horrific ugly gaps and what I [TS]

  wanted to see this past summer because I [TS]

  have been making a real concerted effort [TS]

  to try to read more books over the past [TS]

  year or so essentially to take time away [TS]

  from reddit and hacker news and to [TS]

  divert that time war into books and that [TS]

  was one of the things that when I was [TS]

  using Kindle years ago that I really [TS]

  liked is that I always found that having [TS]

  it as a separate device was helpful to [TS]

  reading more as opposed to reading on my [TS]

  iPad but I gave it up because I couldn't [TS]

  deal with the formatting so when they [TS]

  introduced some slightly better [TS]

  typography plus when they introduced the [TS]

  latest version of the Kindle which is [TS]

  the Kindle Oasis which actually is [TS]

  designed with revolutionary buttons for [TS]

  turning the page and it's designed [TS]

  actually to be a good ebook reader I [TS]

  thought I'm gonna give this a try like [TS]

  I'm gonna give you a second go here [TS]

  Kindle and see how it works and I was [TS]

  using it for the summer I was using it [TS]

  for a little while I found that the [TS]

  hyphenation alone did not make enough of [TS]

  a difference like it's still very [TS]

  annoying for the little narrator in my [TS]

  head to be speeding up and slowing down [TS]

  ever so slightly even if it was way [TS]

  better so I put it away reluctantly like [TS]

  I was hoping that that Kindle experiment [TS]

  would work but it didn't quite take yeah [TS]

  but that's why I had it in a drawer and [TS]

  so when I heard this news is like I'm [TS]

  updating this right away so it just [TS]

  happened yesterday [TS]

  I've been reading a couple of books on [TS]

  the Kindle annoyingly Kindle for some [TS]

  reason they don't do it with all books [TS]

  they only have this available for some [TS]

  books [TS]

  so you have to check in advance but I'm [TS]

  going to give this a real go and try to [TS]

  use the Kindle again as a dedicated [TS]

  separate breeding device because I [TS]

  really do think that is a big advantage [TS]

  plus it doesn't help that Apple has not [TS]

  updated their software for iBooks in [TS]

  like three years they've added no new [TS]

  features and Kindle has very slowly been [TS]

  adding useful features over this time [TS]

  none of them are deal-breakers on their [TS]

  own but each one is like a nice little [TS]

  addition so the Kindle is again an [TS]

  attractive option that I'm going to give [TS]

  a real try this time so I'm very happy [TS]

  about this well now that the Kindle [TS]

  influencer CGP grey has been fully wooed [TS]

  I think it's your move iBooks what could [TS]

  i books do to get you back to iBooks [TS]

  here's the problem right [TS]

  iBooks always has one major disadvantage [TS]

  which is that it's always going to be on [TS]

  an iPad yeah and I do really like having [TS]

  a separate thing I find it's nice to [TS]

  have a separate thing that's like a [TS]

  physical reminder of oh you should be [TS]

  reading a book as dumb as that sounds I [TS]

  really do like that even when you're [TS]

  traveling grind when you're thinking [TS]

  argh on the pliant gotta pack my iPad [TS]

  and my Kindle wouldn't it be better to [TS]

  have one device it would be better in [TS]

  terms of packing to have one device but [TS]

  it is that extra reminder that I find is [TS]

  visually there so it's more top of mind [TS]

  that this is an additional thing I [TS]

  really do like that and iBooks is always [TS]

  going to lose that battle in that I'm [TS]

  always going to be able to do something [TS]

  else and I'm aware that when I'm reading [TS]

  on an iPad even on my like super [TS]

  lockdown I can only do very few things [TS]

  on this except read iPad I'm still [TS]

  always tempted to like flip away and oh [TS]

  let me just quickly add something to a [TS]

  little note that I have somewhere else [TS]

  I'm still more likely to flip out of it [TS]

  whereas with a dedicated device I'm less [TS]

  likely to flip out of it so it's always [TS]

  a big advantage to Kindle I don't know [TS]

  how books could do but it's funny [TS]

  because I went back and I read that that [TS]

  old article that I wrote when I was [TS]

  talking about originally switching from [TS]

  Kindle to iBooks and I made a note about [TS]

  how like Oh Kindles software development [TS]

  is glacially slow and so like I booked [TS]

  some obviously will be developed more [TS]

  quickly than that as like iBooks [TS]

  hasn't changed at all in that whole time [TS]

  that like turns out glacially slow [TS]

  development is faster than nothing at [TS]

  all [TS]

  so iBooks is the tortoise like winning [TS]

  this race against a hare that is totally [TS]

  napping great as always there's been [TS]

  lots of listener emails [TS]

  never really know which ones to put on [TS]

  the show but I've got a couple here that [TS]

  caught my eye that I tell you about [TS]

  that's the right thing there Brady you [TS]

  don't mention how many because then I [TS]

  can just cut them yeah sometimes you're [TS]

  like oh I have exactly three listening [TS]

  emails and I have to cut that sentence [TS]

  and then just have a number of listener [TS]

  emails so this one came in from a Tim [TS]

  you two unveiled the world of podcast to [TS]

  me and I'm a long time listener to your [TS]

  show now nothing compares to a long and [TS]

  naughty episode of hallo internet I just [TS]

  had my wisdom tooth extracted and you [TS]

  guys made me bear this horrid procedure [TS]

  ever since I was a child I never liked [TS]

  any form of surgical intrusion and like [TS]

  those children who do it I can't say who [TS]

  are those people I'm sure there's at [TS]

  least one one weirdo but for the most of [TS]

  us now No thank you and I absolutely [TS]

  despise disappointment at my dentist so [TS]

  what this Tim did was he listened to an [TS]

  episode of hello Internet while having [TS]

  the procedure done thank you guys for [TS]

  making my tooth surgery more tolerable [TS]

  and please keep producing the world's [TS]

  most interesting podcast on the internet [TS]

  and on vinyl this is some serious [TS]

  sucking up going on here yeah I know [TS]

  gray wants proof and as my wisdom tooth [TS]

  had to be sawn into tiny pieces in order [TS]

  to even get it out of the guns god I'm [TS]

  sending you a picture of my medication [TS]

  instead of a shattered tooth and there's [TS]

  basically a picture of a whole bunch of [TS]

  medical things plus a phone listening to [TS]

  hello Internet as proof the thing I [TS]

  found interesting though was this Tim [TS]

  also pointed out to the episode that he [TS]

  listened to during the procedure I'm [TS]

  guessing you might be able to guess what [TS]

  it is no but it was episode 35 which is [TS]

  entitled are my teeth real so very nice [TS]

  choice so great I had a question I was [TS]

  going to ask you as a result of this [TS]

  lesson but I don't need to ask you [TS]

  because coincidentally we have another [TS]

  email from another Tim this is an [TS]

  Australian Tim called Sandra mm-hmm and [TS]

  Sandra says user [TS]

  all my titles here so showing total [TS]

  respect dear dr. Brady hard as nails [TS]

  soft as cushions Herron this is a [TS]

  partial good yes I'll forgive that one [TS]

  yes that was in the right place yeah [TS]

  and the dr. counts for a lot I know yeah [TS]

  it's a bit like getting like an MBA or [TS]

  an OBE [TS]

  wrong you know softest cushions Pasha's [TS]

  cushions as long as cushions are in [TS]

  there were okay so anyway this one from [TS]

  Sandra says I've just had my upper right [TS]

  wisdom teeth extracted tweet us if you [TS]

  have a go wisdom tooth from oh no I'm [TS]

  only tweet brady bleh pretty we got a [TS]

  lot of people listening to this right [TS]

  the number people who are getting a [TS]

  wisdom tooth extracted right now is a [TS]

  non-trivial number uh only tweet me if [TS]

  you're having a wisdom tooth removed you [TS]

  are in the chair and you are listening [TS]

  to hello Internet yeah and only tweet [TS]

  brady no come on surely you would allow [TS]

  tweet for that that's not how this works [TS]

  again didn't you learn haven't you learn [TS]

  from the tweet of me if you're not on a [TS]

  plane debacle that will haunt us until [TS]

  the end of time yeah but then I open the [TS]

  door for everyone surely my more [TS]

  detailed description there is gonna keep [TS]

  it specific not as the podcast keeps [TS]

  growing man like we're getting into big [TS]

  numbers here so now I want to make it [TS]

  real clear do I really admire your [TS]

  ambition that you're worried about the [TS]

  number of people who are right now [TS]

  sitting in a dentist's chair listening [TS]

  to hello Internet anyway as I say and I [TS]

  had wisdom teeth removed now the dentist [TS]

  made the offer to keep the extracted [TS]

  tooth mm-hmm [TS]

  Sandra declined instead I've donated my [TS]

  tooth to the student hospital for [TS]

  education purposes which I didn't even [TS]

  know was a thing like I would have [TS]

  thought wisdom teeth were a dime a dozen [TS]

  anyway my question to you is whether you [TS]

  and gravy wants to answer have had your [TS]

  wisdom teeth extracted and if so did you [TS]

  keep your extracted tooth you strike me [TS]

  I think as me Brady you strike me as [TS]

  someone who would hoard his teeth kind [TS]

  regards Sandra have you had your wisdom [TS]

  teeth extracted gray if you wish to [TS]

  answer I know you know your medical [TS]

  records sir you're going business but I [TS]

  think we can safely go into the wisdom [TS]

  teeth territory yes I had one of my [TS]

  wisdom teeth removed hmm because it was [TS]

  causing a problem in the back of my gums [TS]

  I had one of them removed in retrospect [TS]

  very sketch [TS]

  gee dentist office that was just up a [TS]

  staircase on this high street and I'll [TS]

  never forget that it was done so quickly [TS]

  and sort of without ceremony the whole [TS]

  it just made me have this done this [TS]

  sounds Wow dodgy some back lined it was [TS]

  in London I mean this is like 12 years [TS]

  ago now I still do past that staircase [TS]

  every once in a while and I'm like oh [TS]

  yeah I know there's a little man up [TS]

  there who pulls out teeth yeah I thought [TS]

  that spot is it like that dodgy guy that [TS]

  does your iPhone screen for ya and quit [TS]

  or something I think that's essentially [TS]

  what it was right yeah I would have been [TS]

  like a very poor student at the time so [TS]

  it's like a discount dentist but yeah I [TS]

  remember it because the guy reaches in [TS]

  there and he's like wiggling around he [TS]

  seems to not be able to get the tooth [TS]

  out and he looks at me he goes I'm gonna [TS]

  really lean into this one and before I [TS]

  could do anything he kinda like got up [TS]

  on top of me and just leaned like right [TS]

  into this tool that was holding onto the [TS]

  tooth and it was the loudest most [TS]

  terrifying crack in my head that I'd [TS]

  ever heard all right and you think [TS]

  playing crash chord is inappropriate [TS]

  you're asking this question that's what [TS]

  happens he got the whole thing out but [TS]

  it was like he did it so quickly because [TS]

  I think he knew I would object much more [TS]

  sternly if I had a moment to realize [TS]

  what was happening and he's like I'm [TS]

  just gonna throw my body weight into [TS]

  this one buddy like that's how we're [TS]

  gonna get this tooth out so yes I've had [TS]

  one wisdom tooth removed and now since [TS]

  then what about you brain I bet you're a [TS]

  guy that doesn't like going to the [TS]

  dentist oh yeah of course not of course [TS]

  not know who does Monda I don't Monda we [TS]

  mean you don't mind it I don't know I [TS]

  always have quite pleasant experiences [TS]

  when I go to the dentist this is again [TS]

  you live in this whole like Brady [TS]

  alternate universe where everybody's [TS]

  friendly and things are always pleasant [TS]

  I don't understand and we you are given [TS]

  the option to keep this tooth already [TS]

  already sold it to sell in some black [TS]

  market down the back lane or something I [TS]

  don't even remember if I was given the [TS]

  option to keep obviously I don't have it [TS]

  why would anyone keep a wisdom tooth I [TS]

  don't remember yeah if I was even given [TS]

  the option or if it was immediately sold [TS]

  and as in somebody else's head in China [TS]

  now like I have no idea [TS]

  I have not had my wisdom teeth removed [TS]

  I've never really had a bad dental [TS]

  procedure mm-hmm whether I'd keep it on [TS]

  I probably would I don't know what I'd [TS]

  do with it but what would you do with it [TS]

  why would you keep I don't know but I [TS]

  know about a year ago Audrey had to have [TS]

  some teeth removed because she had some [TS]

  teeth problems and I have got those [TS]

  teeth somewhere in my room in a little [TS]

  tiny little testing because they're so [TS]

  cute they like this look tiny cute [TS]

  little dog teeth and she's got such tiny [TS]

  teeth or Dury they're like you know [TS]

  little pinpricks do you take him out [TS]

  every once in a while do you show them [TS]

  to Audrey no I showed my wife and I [TS]

  don't think she was particularly [TS]

  impressed I wonder is there anybody you [TS]

  could show these teeth to who would be [TS]

  particularly impressed I don't know [TS]

  you're right I probably shouldn't have [TS]

  kept him I think you can safely get rid [TS]

  of those Brady let's start the dehorning [TS]

  process with something small tiny [TS]

  Chihuahua gee that's a bad as small as [TS]

  you can start with exactly so there you [TS]

  go Sandra Grey has had it done quite [TS]

  horrific we by the sounds of it and did [TS]

  not keep the tooth and I have not had it [TS]

  done and as you will keep the tooth do [TS]

  you know what I think maybe I wouldn't [TS]

  oh wow I feel like we're making progress [TS]

  Brady [TS]

  I don't like teeth I don't like how [TS]

  teeth look when they're not in a mouth [TS]

  and in gums like teeth when they're out [TS]

  and you see like all the roots and the [TS]

  whole full horror of a tooth it's not [TS]

  quite as nice as when you just see the [TS]

  part that sticks out above the gum [TS]

  they're not good looking things teeth I [TS]

  don't like how they've got those two [TS]

  little prong bits on the bottom that [TS]

  yeah now now I wouldn't keep the roots [TS]

  that dig into your gums Brady that's you [TS]

  don't like to think about that don't [TS]

  like it your whole mouth is just just [TS]

  full of pieces of calcium that have [TS]

  roots that dig into your soft gums you [TS]

  don't like thinking about that although [TS]

  you just said who would like Audrey's [TS]

  teeth Sandra actually signed off her [TS]

  email as from Sandra fellow Aussie [TS]

  devoted hello internet listener and [TS]

  number for Audrey fan bracket after you [TS]

  your wife and gray maybe that would be [TS]

  an appropriate gift to Sandra and I'll [TS]

  get rid of the teeth Sandra if you would [TS]

  like Audrey's teeth let me know and I'll [TS]

  get them shipped over to us for you I [TS]

  had the crazy things I know that you [TS]

  will actually do this if it happens I [TS]

  just know what I'll take it right [TS]

  however you're going to get rid of those [TS]

  teeth whatever you need to do I think [TS]

  that'll work [TS]

  I'll be happy if that's how they go I'd [TS]

  put them straight in the garbage but if [TS]

  you feel they need to send them to [TS]

  Australia that works too [TS]

  one last listener email this is [TS]

  brilliant [TS]

  okay you're gonna like this now you're [TS]

  big in it up Brady I'm confident you're [TS]

  confident okay alright you know it's [TS]

  really got to work if you big it up like [TS]

  that well one of the few things that I [TS]

  know you do like that shows you're more [TS]

  human side mm-hmm [TS]

  at cute animals oh yeah I think you're a [TS]

  bit of a sucker for cute animals I think [TS]

  you're wrong [TS]

  cute animals now did do not move my [TS]

  metallic art what you does Audrey is a [TS]

  very nice doggy this is from Rosie it [TS]

  starts off dear Brady [TS]

  here's another things people do while [TS]

  listening to a chai story for you last [TS]

  summer [TS]

  I conducted wildlife surveys in the [TS]

  Carrizo Plain National Monument in [TS]

  California we spent one month trapping [TS]

  San Joaquin antelope squirrels a [TS]

  threatened species okay I'm going to [TS]

  send you a picture of what one of these [TS]

  sand will Queen antelope squirrels looks [TS]

  like there has been sent advice quite a [TS]

  name that's quite an infernal it is [TS]

  here's a picture of one via Rosie so [TS]

  this was taken by Rosie in Scituate [TS]

  we marked their bums with Sharpie okay [TS]

  we will get there I was running out of [TS]

  ideas for symbols to do but since I had [TS]

  been marathoning AJ while doing some of [TS]

  our more tedious surveys I realized I [TS]

  could give a few of them a chai themed [TS]

  names so attached are some pictures of [TS]

  squirrels named hello Internet Brady [TS]

  Haran [TS]

  CGP and nailing gear and just so you can [TS]

  see what we're talking about here are [TS]

  you about to send me pictures of [TS]

  squirrel butts with names written on [TS]

  them yep here's the squirrel back with [TS]

  b8 written on it for Brady Haran and [TS]

  then here comes the squirrel but with [TS]

  cgp [TS]

  written on it so basically these tiny [TS]

  squirrels quite largely have had these [TS]

  things done on them but best of all is [TS]

  the nailing gear [TS]

  here is a endangered squirrel in [TS]

  California with an ailing gear drawn on [TS]

  its bum in sharpie I would describe this [TS]

  as the rump of the squirrel is where [TS]

  this is drunk this is not what I was [TS]

  imagining around the actual real butt of [TS]

  the squirrel right that's what I was [TS]

  expecting you sending me for pictures of [TS]

  right this is yeah squirrel rump right [TS]

  not yet world but just a cipher work [TS]

  yeah exactly right yeah if you're [TS]

  listening to hello internet at work you [TS]

  can safely click on this link and not [TS]

  have to worry that your boss is gonna [TS]

  come over in an opportune time and ask [TS]

  why on earth are you looking at [TS]

  photographs of scroll bot yeah you can [TS]

  say it's like a boss it's just the rump [TS]

  yeah it's just the rump totally safe for [TS]

  work that nail in gear on little [TS]

  squirrel though that's very cute is very [TS]

  cute it is cool and also you know I've [TS]

  sent you bits of paper where they were [TS]

  doing all the work anyway you get the [TS]

  impression how long do they need to [TS]

  track these squirrels for though because [TS]

  that has to come off eventually is this [TS]

  just a temporary tracking process that's [TS]

  going on here I imagine I imagine so [TS]

  anyway she finishes her mo with [TS]

  ironically CGP the squirrel ended up [TS]

  being a female just like the penguin [TS]

  that seems like this is the this is how [TS]

  it works when cgb is a different animal [TS]

  I'm sure you can guess what my [TS]

  one-sentence reply to Rosie was I cannot [TS]

  well I wanted to know what the gender of [TS]

  Brady H I and Nalin gear were all right [TS]

  okay so here's a little chart here's a [TS]

  little chart oh you can look it up [TS]

  yourself on the chat Brady's a boy I [TS]

  prefer man but ok boy ha sorry yeah no [TS]

  wait [TS]

  I don't think a male squirrel can be a [TS]

  man I think that's what can be a boy [TS]

  either look right because dogs dogs can [TS]

  be a good boy right but you would never [TS]

  say to a grown up dog that he's a good [TS]

  man [TS]

  right right I do say to my dogs good [TS]

  girl I've never called them good woman [TS]

  yeah all right that'd be super weird so [TS]

  I just call them ladies though I do call [TS]

  my dogs ladies that's also fine right [TS]

  you can see like oh hello ladies right [TS]

  when the two of them walk in the room I [TS]

  think I sometimes sing all the single [TS]

  ladies when they walk in the room okay [TS]

  it's a little too much personal [TS]

  information but that still works right [TS]

  that's what I'm saying if I'd sung it [TS]

  that would have been weird okay or I [TS]

  think you can address a pack of dogs as [TS]

  guys right all of this works but I don't [TS]

  think it works if we're going to a man [TS]

  or a woman so I'm gonna stick with [TS]

  The Brady Haran squirrel is a boy [TS]

  squirrel what could we go mail or we [TS]

  could say he's a mail squirrel that is [TS]

  also true because that's what Rosie said [TS]

  Rosie said Brady was a mail so was a [TS]

  chai and Nalin gear so the only lady was [TS]

  CGP that's fine I'm happy with that [TS]

  that were right with that I know CGP [TS]

  grey the squirrel she's the one actually [TS]

  making sure that there are more of these [TS]

  endangered squirrels in the future she's [TS]

  doing the hard work yeah I'm not gonna [TS]

  argue with that thank you very much [TS]

  definitely have a look at these pictures [TS]

  of squirrel rumps in the show notes if [TS]

  you are so inclined yeah if you want to [TS]

  see squirrel rumps we've got some you've [TS]

  come to the right point one hello [TS]

  Internet I've never heard that podcast [TS]

  arts that one will they always talk [TS]

  about squirrel rumps oh yeah I like that [TS]

  stuff I love those squirt room guys [TS]

  they're awesome [TS]

  yeah who could have thought they'd get [TS]

  so many episodes out of it but anyway [TS]

  yeah I can't wait for all of this follow [TS]

  up in the future right nailing gear [TS]

  squirrels spotted in the wild right [TS]

  someone's just walking around in [TS]

  California they happen to be a Tim and [TS]

  right by them runs a squirrel with an [TS]

  and character on the rump like what the [TS]

  heck [TS]

  I'm never gonna believe this speaking of [TS]

  things you would not believe mm-hmm [TS]

  we have just passed another April Fool's [TS]

  Day why wouldn't you believe that it [TS]

  comes every year I thought that was a [TS]

  nice segue you've just completely ruined [TS]

  it was that a joke was there now's to be [TS]

  a job but uh how was that anyway because [TS]

  like things you wouldn't believe in [TS]

  April Fool's days telling people you [TS]

  know making people believe things that [TS]

  aren't real doesn't matter it's very [TS]

  clever [TS]

  I'm sorry Brady it's very clever that [TS]

  was a fantastic segue there thank you [TS]

  thank you it's it's gonna give a better [TS]

  man ten out of ten would say way again [TS]

  so April Fool's Day we've got to retire [TS]

  this thing thank God [TS]

  I know what a waste of time it also [TS]

  feels like you've ruined it everybody [TS]

  yeah right you have ruined it you're all [TS]

  too into this that now it's not fun [TS]

  anymore do you know what's ruined up [TS]

  gray what social media and [TS]

  corporatization yeah social media that's [TS]

  a good one but I was going to say it's [TS]

  companies getting on board yet now is [TS]

  the worst I imagine there are businesses [TS]

  now that have whole departments [TS]

  dedicated to like next year's April [TS]

  Fool's Day joke mm-hmm and like April [TS]

  Fool's Day is not about that what is the [TS]

  true meaning of April Fool's [TS]

  I actually don't know what its history [TS]

  is and I don't need to know because now [TS]

  the bloody subreddits gonna be full of [TS]

  it [TS]

  so I'm going to spend the next two weeks [TS]

  basically immersed in the minutiae of [TS]

  how April Fool's Day came to be I don't [TS]

  care how it came to be I'm sure it's a [TS]

  good story [TS]

  I liked April Fool's Day back in the day [TS]

  when it was like a thing that maybe one [TS]

  newspaper would maybe do or like your [TS]

  local TV station London something every [TS]

  few years and you know there are some [TS]

  classics but now it's just tiresome like [TS]

  what they need to do is that all the [TS]

  businesses and PR departments and [TS]

  companies and people in the world and [TS]

  news organizations that need to get [TS]

  together and say alright this year you [TS]

  can do one mm-hmm and no one else can do [TS]

  it because when every man and their dog [TS]

  is doing it all giggling to themself [TS]

  like a dad who's just told a dad joke [TS]

  yeah we just did like oh yeah look what [TS]

  you just did and every single other [TS]

  person in my timeline just did go away [TS]

  yeah you know what that's what it is [TS]

  it's like dad joke day [TS]

  yeah that's precisely what it is it's [TS]

  like Oh Google has a video about their [TS]

  Google Nome instead of Google home it's [TS]

  like oh my god I can't deal with this [TS]

  this is terrible [TS]

  yeah yes it's like dad jokes from [TS]

  corporations because real humor always [TS]

  has a little bit of like an edge to it [TS]

  that's what makes it funny but a company [TS]

  they don't want to have any edge to [TS]

  anything so which is going to be some [TS]

  stupid pun right that's what they're [TS]

  gonna do and you also know they're like [TS]

  measuring their engagement with the joke [TS]

  right last year's April Fool's Day [TS]

  performance we had double the retweets [TS]

  of this year's April Fool's Day [TS]

  tweet that we did last year and it's [TS]

  like if anyone is going to be suckered [TS]

  in by some traditional day and a bit of [TS]

  tomfoolery it's me and I bloody hate it [TS]

  yeah I'm actually kind of surprised that [TS]

  you're on this side of it I assumed you [TS]

  were going to be on the other side of [TS]

  this I've like a let's return to the [TS]

  true meaning of April Fool's but I'm [TS]

  actually somewhat surprised yeah that [TS]

  you don't you don't want to go along [TS]

  with this non tastic tradition can't [TS]

  stand get rid of it for the past several [TS]

  years I have taken April Fool's as my [TS]

  annual don't go on the Internet at all [TS]

  day and here's the thing in the past I [TS]

  occasionally would tweet about this like [TS]

  I put up a little image like I'm just [TS]

  not going to be online today everybody [TS]

  like goodbye I recommend you do this [TS]

  same thing like just unplugged for a day [TS]

  you won't miss anything but I was aware [TS]

  this year that April fools again because [TS]

  of social media it like it's it bleeds [TS]

  into it's actually a lot closer to two [TS]

  days like two and a half days yeah [TS]

  because you have people all over the [TS]

  world and the day after people are still [TS]

  retweeting stuff from April Fool's so I [TS]

  think in the future I might have to [TS]

  start quarantine in this day with like a [TS]

  whole week around it of like I'm just [TS]

  not going on the internet at this time [TS]

  because everything is super dumb it's [TS]

  super dumb and it's super frustrating [TS]

  and the Internet's full of untrue crap [TS]

  anyway in an era of fake news let's not [TS]

  even start a fake news this is talk [TS]

  about stuff that's wrong or stuff that's [TS]

  supposed to be a joke and this stuff [TS]

  lasts forever - it's not like a [TS]

  newspaper story or an old TV telecast on [TS]

  the BBC 40 years ago that went out and [TS]

  was forgotten yeah or the fish and chips [TS]

  was Repton this stuff hangs around [TS]

  forever as well yeah so it just becomes [TS]

  this like legacy of that's not the point [TS]

  yes it's not the old BBC broadcast about [TS]

  the spaghetti harvest yeah so guess what [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  everyday is April Fool's on the Internet [TS]

  in some way right where it's just like [TS]

  filled with stuff that can't possibly be [TS]

  real and trying to sort it out from the [TS]

  stuff that isn't so yeah it's a [TS]

  frustrating holiday if it's not [TS]

  corporations being dumb I also feel like [TS]

  it's a weird day where it's like people [TS]

  have a permission to be like a jackass [TS]

  like this is a holiday that has almost [TS]

  no redeeming characteristics at all I'm [TS]

  not sure I'd call a holiday but I know [TS]

  you know yeah we put it we put it in the [TS]

  pantheon of holidays right a st. [TS]

  Patrick's Day [TS]

  Cupid's Day I don't think there are [TS]

  people that have like a day off April [TS]

  Fool's Day they like but anyway the [TS]

  problem is every day has this done to it [TS]

  because now like there's like so much [TS]

  stuff there's so much Twitter and [TS]

  Facebook and there's so much PR and spin [TS]

  and stuff everything gets ruined and I [TS]

  accept you know Christmas has to be [TS]

  ruined that's what Christmas is mm-hmm [TS]

  and all these major holidays everyone [TS]

  jumps on but it seems like anything that [TS]

  comes up now gets destroyed like this [TS]

  and another prime example that you're [TS]

  probably not as exposed to because you [TS]

  don't have a mathematics YouTube channel [TS]

  but I do mmm and that's pi day this you [TS]

  know 14th of March through 14 like when [TS]

  that sort of got a little bit of [TS]

  traction a few years ago and like I put [TS]

  up a couple of Pi Day videos and you [TS]

  know [TS]

  was a little fun thing but now just like [TS]

  every man woman and their dog jumps all [TS]

  over pi day as an excuse for publicity [TS]

  and attention and it's like ah I almost [TS]

  want to pull off the internet now for [TS]

  three days before in three days after pi [TS]

  day because i obviously follow a lot of [TS]

  math you people and stuff and like my [TS]

  timeline facebook and that just becomes [TS]

  a kind of issue around that time as well [TS]

  this makes me laugh because i feel like [TS]

  you are at the center of a particular [TS]

  kind of storm here [TS]

  i have a hard time imagining anybody who [TS]

  might be on the receiving end of more pi [TS]

  day stuff than you is like if we're [TS]

  complaining about Oh hot stopper news [TS]

  like there's just too much of it all the [TS]

  time it's like well actually we're like [TS]

  the Nexus of all hot stuff is it's not [TS]

  like a society-wide problem and that [TS]

  might be a little bit of pi day for you [TS]

  yeah it's like you're gonna be right at [TS]

  the center of this anyway I proposed I [TS]

  had enough but gah why I do have to [TS]

  mention one thing here though that I [TS]

  would be remiss if I did not mention [TS]

  which is that one corporation that I [TS]

  think at least does something [TS]

  interesting sometimes on April Fool's is [TS]

  reddit they don't do jokes right they're [TS]

  not doing some joke they don't release [TS]

  like a dumb feature that they pretend is [TS]

  real but they have done little like [TS]

  experiments on their user base sometimes [TS]

  over April Fool's and the one that they [TS]

  did this year was actually quite amazing [TS]

  and did cross my attention which was our [TS]

  place this big pixel art I don't know if [TS]

  you saw this at all break yes I did I [TS]

  did I found it very interesting [TS]

  so for listeners who are unaware reddit [TS]

  what they started on April 1st and they [TS]

  let it run for I think 72 hours in the [TS]

  end or something like that was they [TS]

  created a blank grid there was a [TS]

  thousand pixels by a thousand pixels and [TS]

  all of reddits users every 5 minutes [TS]

  could color in one of the pixels any [TS]

  color they wanted over the 72 hours I [TS]

  have to say it was just [TS]

  very interesting thing to see different [TS]

  groups of people coming together to try [TS]

  to represent their group on this piece [TS]

  of artwork that was being created this [TS]

  was a just a very interesting look into [TS]

  groups interacting with each other on [TS]

  the internet because it required [TS]

  teamwork didn't you would have to say [TS]

  okay everyone let's let tag at this [TS]

  portion of the grid and use of all our [TS]

  app credits or our time or our colors to [TS]

  try and create this image and other [TS]

  people might try and come in and [TS]

  encroach upon it that's exactly like as [TS]

  an individual user all you could do was [TS]

  just put down a pixel and there were [TS]

  plenty of people who were just [TS]

  essentially defacing the image by just [TS]

  putting down random color pixels all [TS]

  over the place but then there were much [TS]

  bigger groups that we're trying to say [TS]

  like we will defend the American flag in [TS]

  the center of this image right but in [TS]

  order to do that we need to convince a [TS]

  couple thousand people to keep this tab [TS]

  open in the background on their [TS]

  computers and monitor the American flag [TS]

  and change all the colors to make it [TS]

  match there was a group that was calling [TS]

  themselves just the Void who was trying [TS]

  to black out the whole canvas and it's [TS]

  really interesting like people have put [TS]

  together time lapses of what happens [TS]

  with this image over time and you can [TS]

  see like these factions coming and going [TS]

  and like the void is growing and [TS]

  expanding and then people are working to [TS]

  push back the void and is I found it a [TS]

  very very interesting thing and of [TS]

  course the most interesting thing is [TS]

  that the listeners of hello Internet the [TS]

  huge number of Tim's that there are were [TS]

  able to secure a corner of the place for [TS]

  hello Internet and so there's our logo [TS]

  and not insignificant gray they did a [TS]

  really good job type they did a really [TS]

  good job it is not just a tiny little [TS]

  thing like it's a decent little chunk of [TS]

  this thing it's multiple images like we [TS]

  have our faces we have Flags rebel flags [TS]

  maybe but they're our rebels so it's [TS]

  okay yeah it was really interesting to [TS]

  see and especially because this didn't [TS]

  really cross my radar until just I think [TS]

  maybe only two hours before the whole [TS]

  thing was going to shut down so I have [TS]

  to give total credit to our audience [TS]

  that this was 100% arranged and [TS]

  accomplished just by them but for [TS]

  anybody listening I got put some links [TS]

  in the show notes [TS]

  of some of the time lapses what the [TS]

  final image looks like some close-ups of [TS]

  the hello Internet section yeah I I [TS]

  think this was a very interesting thing [TS]

  that occurred on the internet that was [TS]

  connected to April Fool's and is [TS]

  probably the best April Fool's related [TS]

  thing I have ever seen because it was [TS]

  actually interesting it's got nothing to [TS]

  do with April Fool's gray though other [TS]

  than they did it on April 4 yeah so I [TS]

  think I wouldn't count that as April [TS]

  Fool's but I thought it was cool I guess [TS]

  we have to talk about this one red pixel [TS]

  they approached on our little territory [TS]

  and someone put a little red pixel on [TS]

  the little H eye section of the image [TS]

  that unfortunately was there when it all [TS]

  shut down so it's there for eternity how [TS]

  do you feel about that oh but I'm [TS]

  totally fine with that right because [TS]

  that's what this thing is like I think [TS]

  that red pixel is an indicator of what [TS]

  this project was right where there are [TS]

  there are some people who are working [TS]

  against the coherence of the overall [TS]

  thing but I love this stuff because like [TS]

  as much trouble as we give Wikipedia I [TS]

  think Wikipedia is a testament to the [TS]

  fact that although people don't always [TS]

  think it most people are good and [TS]

  helpful right the a thing like Wikipedia [TS]

  could never exist if most people were [TS]

  what sometimes it seems like most people [TS]

  think anonymous people are which is just [TS]

  a bunch of jackasses out to ruin [TS]

  everything right and it's like if people [TS]

  weren't willing and able to coordinate [TS]

  and work towards the better good [TS]

  something like our place could never [TS]

  have happened at all it would just be a [TS]

  big massive noise but the fact that some [TS]

  people just want to see the world burn [TS]

  that's part of the experience of the [TS]

  Internet but overall people wanting to [TS]

  work together and be good is a bigger [TS]

  part of it so I feel like I'm totally [TS]

  fine with that red dot that red dot is [TS]

  almost symbolic of the fact that [TS]

  coordination triumphs over chaos so I [TS]

  have no problem with it [TS]

  there's also tradition I think it's a [TS]

  Far Eastern tradition amongst the sort [TS]

  of famous old rug makers who would [TS]

  stitch these incredible huge rugs that [TS]

  they put one stitch in the rug that is a [TS]

  mistake deliberately and that's like a [TS]

  reminder that only God is perfect you [TS]

  can't make a perfect rug cool so maybe [TS]

  that's a imperfect stitch as well I like [TS]

  it I have to say it was [TS]

  interesting to see the final image I [TS]

  think people should really take a look [TS]

  at it watch the time lapses they're very [TS]

  interesting and I have to say if I'm so [TS]

  pleased and surprised that our audience [TS]

  was able to coordinate and accomplish [TS]

  this thing all on their own it's very [TS]

  impressive it's very impressive speaking [TS]

  of our audience in Tim's I would like to [TS]

  say a quick hello to the surprisingly [TS]

  high number of Tim's that I bumped into [TS]

  at VidCon in Amsterdam European VidCon [TS]

  oh did you go which I mentioned I was [TS]

  going to I didn't know you were going oh [TS]

  and although gray is playing coy Gray [TS]

  was there as well or was I you wouldn't [TS]

  know there you were there I had a really [TS]

  good time mainly because I liked hanging [TS]

  out with you and some of our friends I [TS]

  had a really good time doing that I also [TS]

  did the things I had to do I did a talk [TS]

  on the first morning and I also went [TS]

  along and did a little workshop with [TS]

  some Tim's who had the surprise of gray [TS]

  coming along as a special guest you [TS]

  actually agreed to come along and talk [TS]

  with me which was very kind of you [TS]

  I was strong-armed into coming along by [TS]

  an unprepared Brady is how I would [TS]

  describe the situation you absolutely [TS]

  would not strong-armed I said it would [TS]

  be lovely for you to come along be a [TS]

  nice surprise for the people who came [TS]

  but you under no pressure and it's [TS]

  completely up to you I said I would like [TS]

  you to do it but if you don't like [TS]

  absolutely no problem I can see the [TS]

  ostia I think you were curious I will in [TS]

  public allow you to indulge that [TS]

  delusion how things went on it's not my [TS]

  personal experience of how it went down [TS]

  but no you did strong-arm me into going [TS]

  into a thing and yes I was there at [TS]

  VidCon in the end much to my surprise [TS]

  what did you think of it I mean I [TS]

  haven't been to the big American VidCon [TS]

  for years so I always forget that oh [TS]

  yeah what was your overall impression of [TS]

  VidCon Europe any sort of just quick [TS]

  executive summary I feel like I'm just [TS]

  the worst person in the world to try to [TS]

  give an executive summary of these [TS]

  things because I am I am going in such a [TS]

  strange way I feel like I am going as a [TS]

  tourist who is interested in this thing [TS]

  in a very abstract way because I'm not [TS]

  there as a creator learning how to work [TS]

  in the industry I'm also not there [TS]

  is one of the creators who like you is [TS]

  actually doing presentations and has an [TS]

  onstage presence so I always feel like [TS]

  very much like an odd man out at VidCon [TS]

  I feel I feel very much like I'm not [TS]

  really supposed to be here I'm here and [TS]

  just observing this like an [TS]

  anthropologist I just find it an [TS]

  interesting experience I don't know how [TS]

  other people experience VidCon like I [TS]

  think it's a very different thing if [TS]

  you're going on a stage I'm not asking [TS]

  how other people experience I'm asking [TS]

  how you experience it but that's what [TS]

  I'm saying like I experienced it as a [TS]

  tourist like I think it's very [TS]

  interesting to see I'm always very [TS]

  interested in how big things get pulled [TS]

  off like I find it fascinating of like [TS]

  how does this thing go from an idea in [TS]

  someone's head - oh there's thousands of [TS]

  people here [TS]

  and there are also sandwiches on that [TS]

  table over there and all of this has to [TS]

  be arranged somehow and it all seems [TS]

  like it's just so far beyond the mind of [TS]

  a single individual person and I don't [TS]

  understand how its coordinated like I [TS]

  always just find my mind being drawn [TS]

  towards that kind of stuff yeah and one [TS]

  of these days I will get someone who's [TS]

  in charge of VidCon like I will bully [TS]

  them into a corner and give them a pen [TS]

  and be like draw for me the org chart on [TS]

  this napkin like I don't understand how [TS]

  all of this happens and I would like to [TS]

  see on a piece of paper the logistics [TS]

  behind all of this [TS]

  I find that stuff very very interesting [TS]

  I have got a quick sports book owner [TS]

  gray ok well I've picked one that I [TS]

  think is relevant to you you always do [TS]

  okay alright go ahead [TS]

  do you have some story about a person is [TS]

  that what you think is is relevant to me [TS]

  yeah okay here we go great yeah nailed [TS]

  it perfect 10 out of 10 10 attends [TS]

  fourth-wall corner [TS]

  the topic is golf okay but it's not the [TS]

  Masters golf which everyone is gonna be [TS]

  hoping I'm talking about which is the [TS]

  big tournament that just happened oh is [TS]

  that what everyone's gonna be hoping [TS]

  you're talking about yeah because I [TS]

  watched the Masters and I was like [TS]

  tweeting while I was watching everyone [TS]

  saying oh you got to talk to gray about [TS]

  this but there's nothing to talk to grab [TS]

  air about the Masters it was just a good [TS]

  golf tournament mm-hmm [TS]

  but what I want to talk about is the [TS]

  tournament the week before I called the [TS]

  aana inspiration which obviously is a [TS]

  sponsors name but this is one of the [TS]

  four May [TS]

  tournaments for women golfers and I want [TS]

  to tell you what happened on the final [TS]

  day because I want to know what you [TS]

  think about this whether you think this [TS]

  is a good thing [TS]

  and makes you happy and makes you happy [TS]

  with the world or you think it's like a [TS]

  bit of a travesty [TS]

  this woman as you know it well as you [TS]

  probably don't know typically a golf [TS]

  tournament is played over four days you [TS]

  play the 18 holes over four consecutive [TS]

  days and whoever has the lowest [TS]

  accumulated score is the winner right [TS]

  and this woman called Lexi Thompson was [TS]

  leading after three days and she was [TS]

  playing on the fourth day and she was [TS]

  still leading the tournament she was [TS]

  streaking away and was going to win the [TS]

  tournament it was clear she had this [TS]

  comfortable lead and then what happened [TS]

  was a TV viewer contacted the network [TS]

  and the organisers of the tournament and [TS]

  said I was watching some footage from [TS]

  the third day and when this woman picked [TS]

  up her golf ball from the green and like [TS]

  cleaned the grass off it and then put it [TS]

  back down where she'd put her marker she [TS]

  didn't put it in exactly the right place [TS]

  it was like a few millimeters wrong [TS]

  there are very strict rules about how [TS]

  this works with golf so the people [TS]

  organizing the tournament went back and [TS]

  watched the previous day's footage and [TS]

  yes she had reached this rule which I [TS]

  think was so trivial it hardly matters [TS]

  but anyway it didn't make a big [TS]

  difference but she did technically [TS]

  breach this rule the penalty for doing [TS]

  that is a two-shot penalty mm-hmm so [TS]

  they gave her a two-shot penalty there's [TS]

  another penalty in golf that if you sign [TS]

  your scorecard at the end of the day and [TS]

  the score is incorrect you get a [TS]

  two-shot penalty and cuz she designed a [TS]

  scorecard that was now incorrect [TS]

  although how could she have known [TS]

  otherwise she got another two-shot [TS]

  penalty so she got this four shot [TS]

  penalty they walk out to her on the golf [TS]

  course and say because of what you did [TS]

  yesterday which some viewers saw which [TS]

  we've now gone and found we're docking [TS]

  you for shots and she went on to lose [TS]

  the tournament in a playoff because of [TS]

  this now I know that you're a big fan of [TS]

  TV replays and you think it's crazy that [TS]

  TV replays aren't used in sport hmm so I [TS]

  want to know what you think about this [TS]

  happening by the way one of the problems [TS]

  is when you're leading the tournament [TS]

  you're getting filmed a whole lot more [TS]

  often [TS]

  so you're much more likely to get caught [TS]

  doing this trivial little mistake mm-hmm [TS]

  so that's one thing but a thing I want [TS]

  to know is no referee saw it no one saw [TS]

  it on the day no one associated with the [TS]

  tournament Sora [TS]

  she was basically you know was a tail [TS]

  tattle viewer sitting in their sofa at [TS]

  home hold on her you're showing your [TS]

  hand there I think we can all [TS]

  objectively call this person a [TS]

  tattletale yes so I wanna know where [TS]

  great a big butt [TS]

  great a big butt [TS]

  flavor and using of technology and [TS]

  replays and things in sport and getting [TS]

  a fair outcome feels about the story as [TS]

  I just told I will have an asterisk to [TS]

  this the statement yeah but in general I [TS]

  would say what are sports but a [TS]

  collection of rules yep if we're just [TS]

  going to say that we're not going to [TS]

  follow those rules all the time then [TS]

  what are we even doing here right why [TS]

  are we all together what is this thing [TS]

  that's occurring yep [TS]

  so if a viewer spotted a thing that none [TS]

  of the referee spotted and it was [TS]

  technically something she should not do [TS]

  it doesn't matter by how little she did [TS]

  the thing that she should not do she did [TS]

  a thing that she was not supposed to do [TS]

  that was against the rules that [TS]

  encourages penalty and then she received [TS]

  that penalty I don't see what the [TS]

  problem is I think that viewer I think [TS]

  we could fairly describe them as a rules [TS]

  hero that's what that person is right [TS]

  they're calling in doing their civic [TS]

  duty right doing a thing that actually [TS]

  has an effect in the world enforcing the [TS]

  rules and taking someone who would have [TS]

  I think again we can objectively say [TS]

  stolen a place in the playoff from [TS]

  somebody else [TS]

  and giving it to the person who actually [TS]

  won so I see no problem with this I [TS]

  think this is great okay all right I [TS]

  mean I also think part of roles need to [TS]

  be who has the power to enforce the [TS]

  rules and I think you have to draw lines [TS]

  like the infringement has to be seen by [TS]

  the right person but is that is that [TS]

  part of the rules it doesn't sound like [TS]

  that was part of the rules I also think [TS]

  they need to be Lions drawed like are we [TS]

  gonna start going through like footage [TS]

  from the 1950s and finding times where [TS]

  people broke rules and start like [TS]

  reallocating scores and trophies like [TS]

  back through the ages I would do that I [TS]

  would happily do that I would take a [TS]

  gold medal out of a retired Olympians [TS]

  hand and give it to the deserved winner [TS]

  and I would feel good doing all right [TS]

  right I would feel like I was writing an [TS]

  injustice in the universe yeah they're [TS]

  holding on to it with like their [TS]

  decrepit old claw like no this is the [TS]

  most meaningful thing I've ever done and [TS]

  it's like no you didn't do it somebody [TS]

  else did it [TS]

  give me that trophy and hand it to the [TS]

  actual winner and think about the joy in [TS]

  the real winners eyes so I feel like [TS]

  that person was a hero at home my little [TS]

  asterisk is there's something that [TS]

  sounds like the second to stroke penalty [TS]

  sounds a bit like I don't understand the [TS]

  interpretation of the rules here I [TS]

  tiredly that one pisses me off more than [TS]

  anything that one I feel like we need to [TS]

  go to the rule book on that one I think [TS]

  I could be persuaded that that is like [TS]

  an overly harsh interpretation of how [TS]

  this is supposed to happen [TS]

  yeah because presumably that is like [TS]

  knowingly signing a wrong card there is [TS]

  something about that one that doesn't [TS]

  quite sit right with me but if she [TS]

  didn't put the ball back down where it [TS]

  was supposed to go it's like hey this is [TS]

  your job you're supposed to put the ball [TS]

  back down in that spot and I don't even [TS]

  have a problem with the fact that [TS]

  they're being filmed more like I [TS]

  obviously everyone should be filmed all [TS]

  the time but if the leader is being [TS]

  filmed more than someone in the behind [TS]

  areas it's like well this is just like [TS]

  the robber in Settlers of Catan right [TS]

  it's like a Hubble the leader effect and [TS]

  this is just what happens in this sport [TS]

  okay I'm okay with all of this all right [TS]

  I'm glad I brought it up I'm glad you've [TS]

  cast a different light on the argument I [TS]

  mean do you disagree though do you think [TS]

  the tattle tale at home shouldn't have [TS]

  called in they should have just kept it [TS]

  - well I'm not saying they shouldn't [TS]

  have called it you can't stop people [TS]

  call again if they feel guilty for the [TS]

  rest of their lives for not writing this [TS]

  injustice but I do think is a wrong [TS]

  decision I don't think like the [TS]

  arbitrariness of people at home who [TS]

  calls in and who doesn't the decisions [TS]

  have to be made by the decision makers [TS]

  and I don't think people at home should [TS]

  be acting as chair referees I don't [TS]

  think it's right I'm also fine with [TS]

  having a rule that says at the end of [TS]

  the day whatever happened becomes the [TS]

  unchangeable score like you can make [TS]

  that part of the sport and just have [TS]

  that be set down like hey listen we're [TS]

  not going to adjudicate this overtime so [TS]

  that in 50 years CGP grey can come along [TS]

  and steal gold medals away from our [TS]

  winners and give them to other people [TS]

  right you can make that part of the [TS]

  process but it sounds like this wasn't [TS]

  part of the process for the Masters I [TS]

  mean I agree with like you know drug [TS]

  cheats and things like that [TS]

  losing medals ripped respectively but I [TS]

  do think this was wrong and that extra [TS]

  two shots for signing the incorrect [TS]

  scorecard which even you seem to grasp [TS]

  as being a bit weird did cost her the [TS]

  tournament she would have won if it [TS]

  wasn't for that even though anyway see I [TS]

  thought I [TS]

  one that was half interesting to you [TS]

  this episode of hello Internet is [TS]

  brought to you in part by audible [TS]

  audible is a leading provider of premium [TS]

  digital spoken audio information and [TS]

  entertainment on the Internet [TS]

  aka it's the place you should get your [TS]

  audiobooks from you can get a free audio [TS]

  book with a 30-day trial at audible.com [TS]

  slash [TS]

  hello internet that's where you should [TS]

  go right now audible.com slash hello [TS]

  Internet to get a free audio book with [TS]

  your 30-day trial now audible as always [TS]

  likes for us to recommend a book and [TS]

  I've been making a really concerted [TS]

  effort to try to read more and not just [TS]

  read more but also read differently so I [TS]

  recently read a book that was a little [TS]

  bit out of the normal kind of thing that [TS]

  I would pick up but that I can highly [TS]

  recommend and it's tribe by Sebastian [TS]

  Junger he's the same guy who wrote a [TS]

  perfect storm if you ever read that it's [TS]

  a little bit of a difficult book to [TS]

  describe but I can briefly say that it [TS]

  is a little bit about people in war [TS]

  particularly men in war and how that [TS]

  affects them it talks about some of the [TS]

  difficult things like why is it that [TS]

  some soldiers really find solace in [TS]

  being in a group in war and why they can [TS]

  have difficulty reintegrating into [TS]

  society afterwards that makes the book [TS]

  sound like it's a huge downer but I [TS]

  actually found it a fascinating non [TS]

  downer read and it's also very short [TS]

  which is the thing that I really [TS]

  appreciate in books sometimes so if [TS]

  you're looking for a book to try maybe [TS]

  something that's a little bit different [TS]

  than what you would normally do give [TS]

  tribe a try on audible.com so if you [TS]

  want to listen to it audible has it with [TS]

  an unmatched selection of audio books [TS]

  original audio shows which is something [TS]

  that they have started now News comedy [TS]

  and more you'll always find what you're [TS]

  looking for once again get your free [TS]

  audio book with a 30-day trial today by [TS]

  signing up at audible.com slash hello [TS]

  Internet that's a UD IB le com slash [TS]

  hello Internet [TS]

  alright so the next thing we're going to [TS]

  try to talk about is the news coverage [TS]

  that has surrounded YouTube advertising [TS]

  and a subsequent boycott and all this [TS]

  lot of stuff now gray and I have tried [TS]

  to discuss this a couple of times before [TS]

  one of them made it to the show but [TS]

  we've also tried other times and we've [TS]

  gotten a bit hot and bothered talking [TS]

  about it because it always tends to veer [TS]

  into a discussion about our conflicting [TS]

  views on journalism and news coverage [TS]

  and we've just thought that didn't go to [TS]

  plan [TS]

  and we've cut it from the show but we're [TS]

  going to try again and we've also just [TS]

  had a few conversations in person which [TS]

  we were any good recording but like we [TS]

  get caught in the vortex yeah of this [TS]

  topic so if this conversation seems a [TS]

  little strange listeners if it's made it [TS]

  into the show just keep that in mind [TS]

  this is like the fifth time [TS]

  Brady and I are actually going to talk [TS]

  about Fitz so go so I've tried something [TS]

  a bit different because I can never make [TS]

  my points and I sort of I get confused [TS]

  and heated and then we start putting [TS]

  each other off and going down rabbit [TS]

  holes so I've done is I've written like [TS]

  a statement or like an open letter I [TS]

  think that's it I cannot believe that [TS]

  you have done this I find this hilarious [TS]

  but I also feel like if I had known that [TS]

  you were really gonna write like an [TS]

  opening statement I should have written [TS]

  opening statement too right and now [TS]

  suddenly we're in court and I feel like [TS]

  I'm at a terrible disadvantage because [TS]

  you were coming to the table with a [TS]

  prepared statement and I feel like I'm [TS]

  walking up to the bench like no your [TS]

  honor I'm just defending myself [TS]

  I have no preparations I've got no [TS]

  papers with me and you're over there [TS]

  with a team of lawyers right and you're [TS]

  already you're like no we're gonna fight [TS]

  this so yeah well if it's any [TS]

  consolation great it's not like a [TS]

  crafted document I did just [TS]

  hunt-and-peck this an hour before the [TS]

  show okay so it's a little bit rough [TS]

  around the edges you would like to enter [TS]

  a statement into the record yeah and the [TS]

  reason is not because I want to have [TS]

  another like argument about the media [TS]

  but when we start talking about what [TS]

  we're going to talk about which is you [TS]

  know YouTube advertising and media [TS]

  coverage around ER I have criticisms to [TS]

  make of them of the media like yeah okay [TS]

  but I don't want to have to keep like [TS]

  adding little addendums or little [TS]

  qualifications and professing I want [TS]

  people to know where I stand about [TS]

  journalism and how it's different to you [TS]

  because I think most people know where [TS]

  you stand I mean most Rauh know where I [TS]

  stand - but you're setting up that [TS]

  framing because also you don't want me [TS]

  to respond to your [TS]

  opening statement right you just want to [TS]

  read it and then you wanna move right [TS]

  along I just keep my mouth shut I'm [TS]

  worried if you're too clever in your [TS]

  response we're just gonna have the same [TS]

  old arguments but anyway I'll read this [TS]

  and then you say whatever you are and [TS]

  then we'll talk about what we're going [TS]

  to talk about it's a little bit long [TS]

  sorry [TS]

  go right ahead sir enter your statement [TS]

  into the record here we go Laura's yours [TS]

  dear CGP grey haha no I didn't write [TS]

  that okay alright I was like you can't [TS]

  expect me not to say something if you're [TS]

  opening it with great addressing it to [TS]

  me okay I didn't say that they just kind [TS]

  of addressed to you but it's sort of [TS]

  neutral okay I want to say a few things [TS]

  about news and journalism before we get [TS]

  lost in the weeds this is because as you [TS]

  know I get a little frustrated by some [TS]

  attitudes to news reporting I'll preface [TS]

  all this by saying I'm aware we probably [TS]

  agree on more things than we disagree on [TS]

  and not everything I'm about to say [TS]

  necessarily reflects your views it's [TS]

  more general than that so please don't [TS]

  think I'm putting words in your mouth [TS]

  I'll also try not to use the word media [TS]

  too often because that's so nebulous [TS]

  that it seems to confuse matters I'll [TS]

  opt instead for journalism and reporting [TS]

  but let me start by making mention of my [TS]

  nephew he's 19 years old he's a good lad [TS]

  but he has never read a book not one he [TS]

  claims he thinks they're boring and [TS]

  reckons he can get everything he needs [TS]

  from other sources mainly YouTube and [TS]

  snapchat it seems I can understand this [TS]

  why would anyone do anything they find [TS]

  boring I guess I could argue that [TS]

  exercise is boring eating healthy [TS]

  vegetables is boring that we do some [TS]

  things for our own well-being that [TS]

  reading a book could be the intellectual [TS]

  equivalent of a session at the gym but [TS]

  as I'm someone who doesn't eat very [TS]

  healthily or exercise enough that might [TS]

  be a bit rich and it does sound kind of [TS]

  lame anyway so why do I even mention my [TS]

  nephews refusal to read books because [TS]

  the emotion it incites in me is so [TS]

  similar to the emotion I feel about [TS]

  people who willfully ignore the news [TS]

  while their reasons and motives are [TS]

  different I think this kind of willful [TS]

  ignorance and an accompanying [TS]

  broad-brush generalization that so often [TS]

  goes with it really frustrates me [TS]

  so let's deal with the reasons I think [TS]

  we should pay at least some attention to [TS]

  news to journalism to reporting on [TS]

  events that are happening in our [TS]

  communities and the wider world [TS]

  the first reason I think is just being a [TS]

  good caring empathetic citizen most of [TS]

  us live on a road or community with a [TS]

  few dozen people a city or a town with [TS]

  hundreds of thousands of other people a [TS]

  planet with seven billion other people [TS]

  now you may not be directly affected by [TS]

  their hardships their struggles the [TS]

  events in their lives but I think it is [TS]

  part of the human experience to know [TS]

  about and share some of this yes it can [TS]

  be overwhelming and we can't possibly [TS]

  take it all in but slamming the door on [TS]

  their plots because we don't care or it [TS]

  makes us feel bad while we're eating our [TS]

  evening dinner is a sad state of affairs [TS]

  I really think this is the most [TS]

  important reason of all to have some [TS]

  awareness of news because there are [TS]

  fellow men and women and we should care [TS]

  about them we should care about what [TS]

  they care about [TS]

  I think it's selfish and it's not the [TS]

  kind of person I want to be to only care [TS]

  about things that directly affect me by [TS]

  the way and I guess this applies to [TS]

  people who are a bit more social but I [TS]

  also think it's just good practice to [TS]

  know about the two or three biggest [TS]

  things that are going on at a given time [TS]

  just for like social reasons just to [TS]

  show you're a person who's aware of the [TS]

  bigger picture in your town or your [TS]

  country or on the planet just so you're [TS]

  not the guy or the girl the watercooler [TS]

  who doesn't know that London Bridge is [TS]

  falling down but another more important [TS]

  reason I think we need to pay attention [TS]

  to journalism is because a well informed [TS]

  citizenry is pretty important to the way [TS]

  people in power can exploit us knowing [TS]

  what governments are doing what [TS]

  political leaders are doing what courts [TS]

  are doing what the police are doing what [TS]

  big business is doing the Fourth Estate [TS]

  our reporters play a key role in this [TS]

  accountability public opinion is very [TS]

  important to people in power whether [TS]

  it's polls elections or consumer habits [TS]

  and I think it's important that public [TS]

  opinion is based on factual information [TS]

  not misinformation or no information [TS]

  where that factual information will come [TS]

  from if not from journalists is [TS]

  something I don't know it certainly [TS]

  won't come from the governments and [TS]

  businesses themselves [TS]

  and I can't see anything in the world of [TS]

  social media taking the place of [TS]

  old-fashioned journalism if anything [TS]

  much of what I see happening on social [TS]

  media seems to be a step in the wrong [TS]

  direction now clearly this is where [TS]

  someone listening might be thinking well [TS]

  journalists hardly do a good job [TS]

  providing useful or factual information [TS]

  and yes I was once a traditional [TS]

  newspaper and TV journalists and have [TS]

  some skin in this game but I think this [TS]

  blanket dismissal of journalists and [TS]

  large media organizations is silly just [TS]

  as silly as my nephew arguing that all [TS]

  books are boring or saying that all [TS]

  YouTube videos are frivolous or all [TS]

  politicians are corrupt etc etc yes [TS]

  there are bad journalists and bad media [TS]

  organizations citing the examples of [TS]

  certain rolling news channels or some of [TS]

  Britain's scummiest tabloid newspapers [TS]

  are easy pickings but there are also a [TS]

  lot of good journalists a lot of good [TS]

  newspapers good news websites good TV [TS]

  news programs yes even the good ones [TS]

  have their faults and they should be [TS]

  held to account for their misdeeds but [TS]

  this dismissal of journalism because of [TS]

  those easy targets is well lazy now I'm [TS]

  not saying that we all have the same [TS]

  appetite for news that we should all sit [TS]

  around and consume news for hours each [TS]

  day I'd even argue that my own news [TS]

  appetite is quite low much of the time I [TS]

  really only skim a newspaper for 5 to 10 [TS]

  minutes over my breakfast and maybe dip [TS]

  into a website in a quiet moment just to [TS]

  see what the few top stories are I'm [TS]

  also not recommending what sources of [TS]

  news and individuals should use everyone [TS]

  has their own preferences trusted [TS]

  sources and stylistic preferences but I [TS]

  think a willful decision to avoid news [TS]

  is unhealthy [TS]

  it's a fast-tracked uninformed citizens [TS]

  who care about no one but themselves and [TS]

  see the world only through the prism of [TS]

  the Select people they've decided to [TS]

  follow on Twitter and Facebook or which [TS]

  subreddit silos they've decided suit [TS]

  them best it results in public opinions [TS]

  and beliefs maybe even elections being [TS]

  decided by people who are ignorant [TS]

  now journalists are easy punching bags [TS]

  like politicians I guess and they do not [TS]

  deserve a free pass there are some very [TS]

  good ones some very bad ones and lots of [TS]

  just average ones they're also employed [TS]

  by organizations with conflicted in [TS]

  interests barrows to push this can color [TS]

  their coverage from time to time and we [TS]

  need to see this I've certainly picked [TS]

  on journalists plenty of times here in [TS]

  hello Internet there are frequent source [TS]

  of my paper cuts but I think the role of [TS]

  the Fourth Estate is important ignoring [TS]

  them to the point of extinction is a sad [TS]

  situation and I don't know what the [TS]

  world will look like without a free [TS]

  media my last point is this and I can [TS]

  never expect someone like you gray to [TS]

  change your mind and suddenly become [TS]

  someone who consumes news anymore than I [TS]

  can expect my nephew to suddenly start [TS]

  reading books or me to start eating [TS]

  salads but influential people dismissing [TS]

  the merits of the press even indirectly [TS]

  by being a little too proud of an [TS]

  information light diet worries me we now [TS]

  live in a world where numerous people in [TS]

  positions of power have made it their [TS]

  modus operandi to discredit and [TS]

  undermine trust in the media because [TS]

  this suits their own agendas it's [TS]

  reached almost farcical proportions the [TS]

  way some people assume every utterance [TS]

  on TV or every word in the newspaper is [TS]

  a lie journalism is certainly at a [TS]

  crossroads and it's a messy problem [TS]

  involving changing technology shifts and [TS]

  advertising and a strange political [TS]

  climate at the moment I don't think it's [TS]

  necessarily our job to advocate [TS]

  subsidized or save journalism it has [TS]

  evolved as a business and maybe that's [TS]

  how it would die but I do feel like [TS]

  there's a little more to the role of [TS]

  journalists than just filling the gaps [TS]

  between advertising and as my buddy here [TS]

  on the podcast is known for being a [TS]

  little disparaging towards the media I [TS]

  wanted to have my say too to say that I [TS]

  think it's a good thing anyway now I've [TS]

  said all this I would like to get on [TS]

  with the show and give a kicking to The [TS]

  Times of London your opening statement [TS]

  has been entered into the record reading [TS]

  obviously there are many points that I [TS]

  would choose to disagree with of course [TS]

  but I was intentionally keeping my hands [TS]

  out the keyboard and not making a [TS]

  point-by-point analysis or noting the [TS]

  points where I feel like you're [TS]

  conflating two different issues I will [TS]

  ask you one question which you might not [TS]

  want to answer okay but I'm sort of [TS]

  curious about with regards to that [TS]

  statement let's say a listener to the [TS]

  podcast had at some point followed my [TS]

  advice [TS]

  and had stopped following the news and [TS]

  was moved by your opening statements to [TS]

  come back into the world of news hmm [TS]

  where do you think they should start [TS]

  with that because I do find it [TS]

  interesting that you don't want to [TS]

  mention any particular source and I can [TS]

  understand very many reasons why you [TS]

  might not want to do that yeah but I [TS]

  feel like that comes to a particular [TS]

  feeling that I have sometimes of where [TS]

  do you think they should go if they are [TS]

  moved by your statement yeah I mean the [TS]

  reason that I would answer that is [TS]

  because I don't want to get into that [TS]

  kind of mix in a way I think it's [TS]

  different for everyone I would say there [TS]

  are certain newspapers I guess that some [TS]

  people refer to as papers of record [TS]

  which of newspapers which supposedly are [TS]

  a little bit less politically biased [TS]

  which are hard to find in the UK but you [TS]

  know that they're around so I would say [TS]

  maybe you know newspapers are websites [TS]

  that have less of a political agenda I [TS]

  guess is one thing I could maybe suggest [TS]

  but I think there are lots of options I [TS]

  don't want to start recommending it [TS]

  because I think this is what we do we'll [TS]

  get lost in the weeds and we can find [TS]

  examples of where people have much [TS]

  things up and I think people need to [TS]

  find their own way and their own sources [TS]

  I'm genuinely I am not trying to trick [TS]

  you here I know you know I'm not trying [TS]

  to get you to name a name and then up [TS]

  and then I'll point to a story that I [TS]

  thought was terrible that they did yeah [TS]

  what I'm trying to get at here is that I [TS]

  think this is a vastly more difficult [TS]

  task than it sounds when you say [TS]

  something like oh people should read a [TS]

  newspaper of record because for someone [TS]

  like me like that doesn't necessarily [TS]

  mean anything like I don't know which [TS]

  papers you you mean by that [TS]

  and again I understand why you don't [TS]

  want to recommend something in [TS]

  particular I'm imagining someone who may [TS]

  have taken my advice in the past to [TS]

  disengage from the news cycle who was [TS]

  looking for a reentry point and I just [TS]

  wanted to know if you had a particular [TS]

  place that you would recommend that they [TS]

  start I have an answer for than if you [TS]

  don't want to give one I'm just curious [TS]

  as to your feelings on that [TS]

  I feel like I don't want to have that [TS]

  discussion today on it which is a nice [TS]

  bit of a cop-out I feel like you know [TS]

  you gave me a lot latitude you let me [TS]

  have my say and you didn't slap down [TS]

  things you disagree with and for me to [TS]

  now like go further and start going into [TS]

  the weeds that I was trying to avoid [TS]

  would be a bad idea but I do think you [TS]

  should tell people what your advice is [TS]

  no people are gonna know right I'm gonna [TS]

  recommend they read The Economist right [TS]

  because when we had a now long ago [TS]

  deleted conversation the news yeah I [TS]

  don't really follow the news but we do [TS]

  have a subscription to The Economist in [TS]

  my house and as I've mentioned before my [TS]

  wife reads The Economist and she often [TS]

  recommends articles to me out of it yeah [TS]

  and I did on a couple of Sundays just [TS]

  make an effort to say like oh I'm gonna [TS]

  just read The Economist again just a [TS]

  little bit more than I normally would [TS]

  just picking it up and going through and [TS]

  and it can just reconfirm to me that [TS]

  like as a person who does not have [TS]

  interest in following the news who would [TS]

  argue that on an individual basis it [TS]

  might not be the best thing for a person [TS]

  to do I do think that the Economist is a [TS]

  pretty great job of reporting on stuff [TS]

  in a way that is accessible for someone [TS]

  who doesn't necessarily have background [TS]

  information I think I've mentioned [TS]

  previous on the podcast but one thing I [TS]

  do love is their style guide is to [TS]

  always write articles assuming that a [TS]

  person has essentially no background so [TS]

  they always explain what everything is [TS]

  you never feel like you're lost and I [TS]

  feel like they do a pretty good job of [TS]

  hitting things down the middle and in my [TS]

  own research anyway I have yet to come [TS]

  across any major howlers in the [TS]

  Economist in the way they report things [TS]

  unlike just about every other place I've [TS]

  ever gone where it's like oh this really [TS]

  interesting story when you dig into it [TS]

  turns out to be entirely misrepresented [TS]

  so if people are looking for a place to [TS]

  enter the news I would recommend the [TS]

  economists use offer code gray for no [TS]

  discount at all because this isn't an ad [TS]

  but you know telling gray sent you so [TS]

  let's talk about the actual issue at [TS]

  hand yeah so what we want to talk about [TS]

  is this ongoing brouhaha that is related [TS]

  to the news and is related to youtube [TS]

  and advertising which was I think [TS]

  started by the very article that you [TS]

  first brought up on the podcast a couple [TS]

  episodes ago which I foreshadowed is [TS]

  becoming a big deal yeah [TS]

  which is in the times was it yeah the [TS]

  Times of London Times of London yeah no [TS]

  I do just want to enter it on the record [TS]

  that I had not read that article when we [TS]

  were discussing it on the podcast it was [TS]

  a bit of a surprise to me so I hadn't [TS]

  gone through it and I think that [TS]

  slightly coloured the conversation that [TS]

  we had because I would have been vastly [TS]

  more angry had I actually read it [TS]

  because I think that article is a [TS]

  perfect example of how news stories I [TS]

  think sometimes intentionally [TS]

  misrepresent situations but anyway [TS]

  putting that aside so we don't get [TS]

  sucked into the weeds hmm [TS]

  The Times did an article describing how [TS]

  on YouTube there are advertisements that [TS]

  are shown against extremist content and [TS]

  this has since snowballed into what I [TS]

  think we can fairly described as a very [TS]

  big problem [TS]

  for YouTube there have been advertisers [TS]

  big brand advertisers that have pulled [TS]

  out from advertising on YouTube lots of [TS]

  people can see it in the data event ad [TS]

  rates on YouTube have gone down this is [TS]

  actually something that I can see [TS]

  directly in my own channel and on my own [TS]

  video the most recent one that I put up [TS]

  is at about 20 percent of the rate that [TS]

  I would expect it to be under normal [TS]

  circumstances some entire channels have [TS]

  been demonetised or very close to being [TS]

  demonetised for having advertiser [TS]

  unfriendly content this has turned into [TS]

  a very big brouhaha that YouTube seems [TS]

  to be having a hard time getting out [TS]

  from under and the newspapers seem to [TS]

  keep liking to report on that sort of [TS]

  this the state of the situation right [TS]

  now would you say yes I think that's a [TS]

  pretty fair summary okay I guess my more [TS]

  emotional reaction to this and my [TS]

  feeling about it is I am infuriated with [TS]

  this whole topic because I view this as [TS]

  a self-serving storm that the [TS]

  traditional news industry is cooking up [TS]

  that works tremendously in their favor [TS]

  and that is essentially a total non [TS]

  problem on YouTube [TS]

  but that they can use to constantly hit [TS]

  and berate YouTube over like the [TS]

  question of the massive amount of [TS]

  content that is uploaded to YouTube [TS]

  there is always going to be something [TS]

  that someone is able to point to as [TS]

  objectionable that YouTube will not be [TS]

  able to remove immediately I view this [TS]

  as a kind of problem that is just [TS]

  intrinsic to the medium and is never [TS]

  going to go away but the scale of the [TS]

  problem is never reported in these [TS]

  stories so all of the examples I ever [TS]

  see are examples on videos with very low [TS]

  view numbers on channels that are [TS]

  essentially not watched and these are [TS]

  brought up as examples of oh look how [TS]

  big companies like Pepsi are funding [TS]

  terrorism through YouTube and there's [TS]

  never any context of scale given to this [TS]

  that's my frustration is when I when I [TS]

  see these things it seems very much like [TS]

  these stories are not intended to be [TS]

  vehicles to well inform the public of [TS]

  how the YouTube advertising system works [TS]

  and how this process is happening and [TS]

  how an advertisement might end up in [TS]

  front of a video that it doesn't want to [TS]

  be in front of there's no elucidation of [TS]

  this it's just entirely presented as [TS]

  like YouTube is facilitating the funding [TS]

  of terrorism with big brand money and I [TS]

  find that incredibly frustrating it is [TS]

  frankly causing needless economic harm [TS]

  irresponsibly I do you want me to start [TS]

  with the parts where I disagree with you [TS]

  or the parts where I agree with you [TS]

  you start wherever you want man well [TS]

  let's get the disagreements out of the [TS]

  way I guess mmm first of all let's admit [TS]

  we have a big conflict of interest here [TS]

  you just said yourself you know we're [TS]

  very affected by this so we need to bear [TS]

  that in mind you know this is hitting us [TS]

  in the hip pocket and obviously the [TS]

  conflict of interest for the newspapers [TS]

  starting with The Times which is owned [TS]

  by Rupert Murdoch and you know it's been [TS]

  picked up by lots of other papers now [TS]

  who I think have seen the opportunity [TS]

  this conflict is massive mm-hmm and I'm [TS]

  finding it rather tiresome they flogged [TS]

  the dead whore [TS]

  way too hard to the point where I'm [TS]

  thinking come on enough enough and also [TS]

  I don't know you probably don't realize [TS]

  this but in recent days it's now [TS]

  switched to Facebook they've said gosh [TS]

  that worked better than we thought and [TS]

  now they're targeting Facebook and [TS]

  they're looking for examples of you know [TS]

  pedophiles on Facebook and all this [TS]

  other stuff so that's really funny I [TS]

  feel like shock surprise there because [TS]

  it's like Google and Facebook or [TS]

  something like 80 percent of all the [TS]

  advertising money spent on the Internet [TS]

  are spent on those two websites yeah I [TS]

  was like oh you turned your attention to [TS]

  Facebook yeah color me shocked nice oh [TS]

  I'm a little jaded and cynical about it [TS]

  hmm [TS]

  and I'm also rather jaded and cynical by [TS]

  how they keep referring to these [TS]

  investigations they're doing I don't I [TS]

  don't think they have done like an [TS]

  undercover investigation [TS]

  they probably used Google ironically but [TS]

  they've just basically searched for [TS]

  extremist content I mean anyone can do [TS]

  this like this is not an investigation [TS]

  they've just like done something that [TS]

  any five-year-old could do in ten [TS]

  minutes yes so like digging themselves [TS]

  up as these like people who have [TS]

  uncovered some mystery frustrates me [TS]

  somewhat and the reporting of it because [TS]

  it's an area I know quite well and you [TS]

  know quite well some of the reporting of [TS]

  it has been not as thorough accurate as [TS]

  it could have been so I'm quite upset by [TS]

  the generous description but I think [TS]

  some of the things you're arguing about [TS]

  and some of the things that are [TS]

  upsetting you not the point and I think [TS]

  you're kind of getting lost in the [TS]

  minutiae of the details and ignoring the [TS]

  problem that does exist if I can go off [TS]

  on a tangent for a second this is what [TS]

  you remind me of at the moment there's [TS]

  an episode of the TV show The Office the [TS]

  British office in which there's a pub [TS]

  quiz that goes to a tiebreaker mm-hmm [TS]

  the two guys have to stand on stage [TS]

  opposite each other and they have to say [TS]

  the answer first whichever one of you [TS]

  says the answer first wins yeah and it [TS]

  says a quote from Shakespeare and one [TS]

  guy says that and gets it wrong but then [TS]

  he just keeps naming play after play [TS]

  after play trying to get it right and he [TS]

  he keeps getting it wrong and eventually [TS]

  the other guy says the right answer and [TS]

  he wins and then for the next couple of [TS]

  minutes the guy who was saying answer [TS]

  after answer and got told off for saying [TS]

  too many plays gets into this big [TS]

  argument with the quizmaster about you [TS]

  never said I could only say one so [TS]

  that's why I was saying lots and lots so [TS]

  I didn't break the rules no rules were [TS]

  broken you know you never said that and [TS]

  he's ignoring the fact he never even [TS]

  said the right answer mm-hmm and it's oh [TS]

  it doesn't matter anyway and he's so [TS]

  busy arguing over the minutiae of the [TS]

  rules Rose ignoring the fact he didn't [TS]

  know the answer then he lost the quiz [TS]

  anyway hmm and I feel a bit like you're [TS]

  that guy you're so busy worrying about [TS]

  the fact that they gave the wrong number [TS]

  for the amount of money or they didn't [TS]

  explain very clearly how the advertising [TS]

  algorithm works and that you're kind of [TS]

  ignoring the fact that money that once [TS]

  belongs to a company is ending up in the [TS]

  pocket of people who've uploaded [TS]

  inappropriate content to YouTube that's [TS]

  the problem and how it happened and [TS]

  whether it flowed through an auction [TS]

  system or whether Joe Bloggs knew that [TS]

  the money was going to end up here or [TS]

  not and whose fault was it and whether [TS]

  it was a bot or a human mm-hmm that [TS]

  isn't really the argument here the [TS]

  argument is there was money that once [TS]

  belongs to Pepsi to use your example and [TS]

  now that's in the pocket of someone who [TS]

  puts something deeply wrong on the [TS]

  internet and they've been rewarded for [TS]

  it with money that once belonged to [TS]

  Pepsi and that's what's upsetting Pepsi [TS]

  yeah oh yeah so I saw you uploaded your [TS]

  video about how YouTube auctions works I [TS]

  mean it could be a coincidence but I [TS]

  feel like you must have been motivated [TS]

  or sped up by this recent controversy [TS]

  you felt like this was something that [TS]

  needed to be explained more clearly oh [TS]

  yeah that was a video uploaded in anger [TS]

  yeah and you did a good job of [TS]

  explaining how the system works you know [TS]

  well done it was a really nice video but [TS]

  I think it's completely irrelevant to [TS]

  this 2-bay and it changes nothing [TS]

  well yeah I didn't really want to talk [TS]

  about this debate I wanted to talk about [TS]

  a thing that I think is important which [TS]

  is the understanding that humans are not [TS]

  assigning these ads and I also just want [TS]

  to just agree emphasized there's an [TS]

  enormous amount of content but no I made [TS]

  that video because I've as with all my [TS]

  videos I feel like I want this to last [TS]

  beyond this particular debate right [TS]

  which will go away eventually of course [TS]

  but I think it's completely irrelevant [TS]

  that like humans don't do it YouTube are [TS]

  the enablers googler the enablers well [TS]

  they've done it with an algorithm or 400 [TS]

  people in a call center in chow [TS]

  however they've done it they've created [TS]

  the system that advertisers put money [TS]

  into the big black box no but doesn't [TS]

  matter what happens in the black box and [TS]

  then the money ends up in people's [TS]

  pockets whether it's your pocket my [TS]

  pocket or some crazy person who's [TS]

  uploading hate speech and how to make [TS]

  bombs and stuff right this is the [TS]

  problem and like if the extent of the [TS]

  problems being exaggerated that is an [TS]

  issue don't get me wrong but I do think [TS]

  a problem exists I've always thought [TS]

  it's a problem just like I think it's a [TS]

  problem that freebooters get money you [TS]

  know do you remember [TS]

  I've said this a couple of times I've [TS]

  even said it on the podcast that I think [TS]

  the best way to get freebooting dealt [TS]

  with would be to get in the advertisers [TS]

  ears and say to them did you know that [TS]

  your advertising on stolen content [TS]

  mm-hmm this is exactly what's happened [TS]

  the times have gotten in the ears via [TS]

  the power of their newspaper and their [TS]

  influence have gotten in the ears of the [TS]

  advertisers and said do you know that [TS]

  your money says some of your money's [TS]

  ending up here now they've done it with [TS]

  what I think somewhat disingenuous [TS]

  motive mm-hmm but that's exactly what's [TS]

  happened and YouTube have been caught [TS]

  doing the wrong thing yes like then yeah [TS]

  but had to act [TS]

  they've been penalized for I know it's [TS]

  been skewed you can go ahead and explain [TS]

  how it's been skewed but I think they [TS]

  have done the wrong thing they have to [TS]

  act and they are acting yeah but yeah [TS]

  like I have to fundamentally disagree [TS]

  with your description thereof YouTube [TS]

  has done the wrong thing right I don't [TS]

  think that is a fair description of what [TS]

  is occurring because what you're asking [TS]

  for is a perfect system that has to deal [TS]

  with essentially an infinite amount of [TS]

  content yeah but you're giving them a [TS]

  leave pass for that reason you're saying [TS]

  because it's hard and because it's big [TS]

  we've done enough I don't think they [TS]

  have done enough this is our fundamental [TS]

  disagreement because I do think and the [TS]

  reason why the way all of the new [TS]

  stories have reported on YouTube [TS]

  frustrates me is because I think that [TS]

  you have to report on the Internet as a [TS]

  different thing like this is not a TV [TS]

  schedule this is not advertising against [TS]

  known content this is algorithmically [TS]

  matching your advertisement [TS]

  - what algorithms think the content is [TS]

  yeah that's what advertising on the [TS]

  Internet is and I think if you ignore [TS]

  that if you want to ignore the [TS]

  fundamental way that the internet works [TS]

  and then hold the company Google [TS]

  responsible as though they're putting [TS]

  ads on an episode of Seinfeld where you [TS]

  know what it is hold them to the same [TS]

  standard of like oh we didn't air [TS]

  Seinfeld that evening we actually aired [TS]

  a terrorist recruiting video and we just [TS]

  left all the ads in and hold them to [TS]

  that kind of standard like I don't think [TS]

  that that's a fair assessment that's why [TS]

  I think it is an important part of this [TS]

  story how does the internet work but all [TS]

  of the newspapers are reporting upon [TS]

  Google and a presumably now Facebook yet [TS]

  I'm no friend of Facebook but you can't [TS]

  report on them like they're just a [TS]

  bigger newspaper it's a fundamentally [TS]

  different kind of thing and I think what [TS]

  makes the internet different is what [TS]

  really matters in this story and to [TS]

  ignore that is irresponsible this is [TS]

  where we fundamentally disagree but this [TS]

  is kind of where I think you're the guy [TS]

  debating after the pub quiz all that [TS]

  matters is that Pepsi saw their [TS]

  advertisement that they paid for next to [TS]

  Bob the bombers video and like that's [TS]

  happened yep and YouTube took the money [TS]

  they took the money and when they took [TS]

  the money they knew they weren't [TS]

  supposed to put it next to Bob the [TS]

  bomber they knew that even the way [TS]

  you're describing it though like is [TS]

  implying a kind of intent like oh well [TS]

  hahaha we're taking Pepsi's money and [TS]

  we're gonna put it against this [TS]

  terrorist video okay let's not call it [TS]

  intent let's call it negligence [TS]

  negligence is also not a word that I can [TS]

  agree with and right I was just winding [TS]

  you up but you're doing what I think [TS]

  exactly the newspapers are doing right [TS]

  they'll write a word like negligent all [TS]

  right and then you're implying a certain [TS]

  kind of thing I get super interesting [TS]

  because I wanted to check that right [TS]

  after this had happened I actually [TS]

  bought a bunch of ads from my own [TS]

  YouTube channel on YouTube because I [TS]

  just wanted to quickly see how the [TS]

  system was like after we had that first [TS]

  conversation yeah [TS]

  just as I had remembered when I tried [TS]

  this years and years ago as with other [TS]

  stuff like [TS]

  the amount of options and preferences [TS]

  they give you to try to target your ad [TS]

  to exactly who you want and the number [TS]

  of check boxes that you can tick for all [TS]

  the kinds of things that you want to try [TS]

  to have your ad not be shown against [TS]

  it's enormous [TS]

  like I've always like they have an [TS]

  incentive kind of stuff is that oh they [TS]

  have all of this like inappropriate [TS]

  content but they also have things like [TS]

  gambling like they have a bunch of [TS]

  related kinds of things that you might [TS]

  not want your ads to run against this [TS]

  writer they have like mild violence they [TS]

  have a whole bunch of categories that [TS]

  you can specify you don't want your ads [TS]

  to run against and there's no reason [TS]

  that they'd be like negligent where it's [TS]

  like ah ha ha we'll just have them take [TS]

  a bunch of these boxes and we won't do [TS]

  anything on the other end like it is in [TS]

  YouTube's direct financial interest to [TS]

  put the ads where the advertiser wants [TS]

  them to go it's not a kind of negligence [TS]

  to an extent [TS]

  that's not completely true it's in their [TS]

  interest to do it as long as it doesn't [TS]

  cost them too much to do that it's in [TS]

  their interest to do it because YouTube [TS]

  charges when a user clicks on an ad [TS]

  right so they are in the business of [TS]

  matching ads to interested viewers yeah [TS]

  they're not selling billboards on the [TS]

  highway here at a price that at a price [TS]

  to them they're in the business of doing [TS]

  that at a price to them that isn't too [TS]

  great that I can't employ 400 million [TS]

  people to do it right they employ no one [TS]

  to do it they avoid a computer to do it [TS]

  there's not a huge cost on the other end [TS]

  it's not a big army of people where [TS]

  they're like oh if we get these people [TS]

  to slack off a bit right this is [TS]

  Google's whole thing is this kind of AI [TS]

  and categorization right this is their [TS]

  whole deepmind project like this is [TS]

  everything they do is making this stuff [TS]

  good yeah and so that's why I think if [TS]

  you ignore this that is a kind of [TS]

  negligence if you just ignore how this [TS]

  system is different how YouTube is in [TS]

  the business of categorizing decade's [TS]

  worth of content every day and you find [TS]

  the couple of videos that no one has [TS]

  watched and you keep refreshing and [TS]

  refreshing them until you find an ad [TS]

  from a big company that you know you can [TS]

  bully because I think the other side of [TS]

  this is I don't disagree with any of [TS]

  these big companies from pulling out [TS]

  because I think [TS]

  newspapers and the news are able to [TS]

  bully these big companies into negative [TS]

  PR campaigns to move their money [TS]

  elsewhere that's definitely true I [TS]

  definitely agree with that but the news [TS]

  is causing the very problem that they're [TS]

  threatening will happen right like boy [TS]

  won't it be terrible news for you if we [TS]

  keep writing stories that associate your [TS]

  brand name with horrible thing in the [TS]

  title which is exactly what we want to [TS]

  do so to me this is like a mafia [TS]

  shakedown that they're doing here it's [TS]

  like we'll always be able to find of the [TS]

  decades worth of stuff every day we'll [TS]

  be able to find something that has been [TS]

  miscategorized and we'll always be able [TS]

  to hold that over your head so it'd be a [TS]

  real shame if we keep having to tarnish [TS]

  your brand all the time it'd be a real [TS]

  shame if we caused a constant problem [TS]

  for our main competitor for advertising [TS]

  dollars so this is why I find it [TS]

  frustrating is I think this is [TS]

  intentionally misrepresented what this [TS]

  thing is the Internet is just not a [TS]

  newspaper it's not a television schedule [TS]

  it's a different kind of advertising and [TS]

  I feel like pretty much everybody knows [TS]

  this but nonetheless traditional media [TS]

  can bully companies into pulling their [TS]

  dollars off of it like I would even [TS]

  believe that people on the board of [TS]

  Pepsi or whatever know what this whole [TS]

  situation is but they're just pulling [TS]

  their dollars because they feel like we [TS]

  can't don't please don't put us at the [TS]

  center of the story like we're just [TS]

  taking our money out leave us alone for [TS]

  a while I would believe that that's [TS]

  happening that even the people in charge [TS]

  of the advertising of the big companies [TS]

  understand the situation fully but just [TS]

  feel like okay we can't be involved in [TS]

  this like we're forced to make a move [TS]

  here because of this story that has been [TS]

  generated I agree with what you just [TS]

  said I am Not sure that the problems [TS]

  quite as tiny as you say like you're [TS]

  making it sound like these are like five [TS]

  videos with eight views and they've made [TS]

  like point zero one of a penny mm-hmm I [TS]

  don't know in some of the examples I've [TS]

  read about have been you know hundreds [TS]

  and hundreds of thousands of views it [TS]

  would be interesting to know the money [TS]

  involved and whether or not YouTube are [TS]

  willing to disclose that I mean [TS]

  obviously they're not willing to [TS]

  disclose that [TS]

  because the numbers would probably would [TS]

  be quite big even though you would call [TS]

  them small yeah like they could easily [TS]

  say uh yet we've looked at it and we've [TS]

  done an order and we've paid out you [TS]

  know $33 hmm over the last year two [TS]

  extreme content but obviously the number [TS]

  isn't $33 it's obviously numbers that [TS]

  are big enough that people are going to [TS]

  get spooked I don't know if they're [TS]

  numbers that are big enough that people [TS]

  are going to get spooked because the [TS]

  other thing that I've seen in the [TS]

  articles like I've seen people passing [TS]

  around that I find really frustrating is [TS]

  again this is a kind of thing that I see [TS]

  often in the news but this is an example [TS]

  of it where it's like you start talking [TS]

  about a really terrible thing but you [TS]

  transition into something else and so [TS]

  I've seen articles where they start out [TS]

  by talking about like oh here's a [TS]

  horrible beheading video that's Walmart [TS]

  ran an ad against or whatever yeah and [TS]

  then they transition to videos that have [TS]

  let's say unpopular political speech [TS]

  that have hundreds of thousands of views [TS]

  in them and then they suddenly they [TS]

  start talking about popular channels [TS]

  that might say unpopular things and it's [TS]

  like whoa whoa you've done like a [TS]

  switcheroo here because you're kind of [TS]

  implying that this horrible thing is [TS]

  getting the numbers of this other thing [TS]

  that you're talking about yeah and if I [TS]

  didn't follow this world as closely as I [TS]

  do [TS]

  I would not be aware of what has just [TS]

  occurred like if I'm just reading an [TS]

  article suddenly I think there are [TS]

  channels on YouTube that show terrorist [TS]

  recruiting videos that have millions of [TS]

  subscribers and hundreds of thousands of [TS]

  views and it's like those things don't [TS]

  exist yeah those are not on YouTube and [TS]

  so that is just another thing that I [TS]

  find really frustrating where it's like [TS]

  you news article or news story are like [TS]

  you're no fool you're deliberately doing [TS]

  this thing of like talk about the [TS]

  horrible thing and then switch to the [TS]

  maybe controversial thing but act as [TS]

  though they're the same like it's a kind [TS]

  of false equivalence I think some of [TS]

  them are folks by the way they I think [TS]

  in some cases they don't even quite get [TS]

  it themselves [TS]

  then I think it was as clever as you [TS]

  think well there we go score one for the [TS]

  journalists then are they malevolent or [TS]

  just fools I think that's exactly what [TS]

  you said braiding hair and I'm gonna put [TS]

  that on up no no I think you're right I [TS]

  said in my statement in my now famous [TS]

  statement I didn't say that you know [TS]

  they're a bad journalist out there and [TS]

  they need to be called out and I think [TS]

  some of this reporting you know it's [TS]

  perfectly fair to call that and you know [TS]

  you make you make some good points about [TS]

  it but I do think big organizations and [TS]

  companies don't act to improve things [TS]

  until they're called out sometimes and [TS]

  you know YouTube have now announced some [TS]

  you know new system and stuff and I saw [TS]

  a few people tweeting saying okay that [TS]

  looks like an interesting thing they're [TS]

  going to do to get around the problem [TS]

  well let's talk about this [TS]

  how have YouTube responded well the main [TS]

  thing that I've seen which I thought I [TS]

  believe I said on Twitter it's a [TS]

  brilliant response yeah is YouTube has [TS]

  decided that unless your YouTube channel [TS]

  has 10,000 lifetime views across all the [TS]

  videos yeah you will not be able to [TS]

  monetize the channel Yeah right now [TS]

  10,000 views is no money it's like a [TS]

  dollar especially after the ad boy yeah [TS]

  it's essentially nothing yeah so this [TS]

  hurts [TS]

  no creators right nobody with less than [TS]

  10,000 views is making a living on [TS]

  YouTube and I thought this was a [TS]

  fantastic response because I viewed it [TS]

  essentially as YouTube had to be seen [TS]

  doing something and here's them able to [TS]

  say like okay look we're gonna do this [TS]

  because we know that the videos people [TS]

  are pointing to have essentially no [TS]

  views right that they're getting flagged [TS]

  and they're getting pulled out of the [TS]

  system really fast and so since the view [TS]

  numbers on those things are so small [TS]

  anyway we can set a comically low [TS]

  threshold before videos can be monetized [TS]

  I think YouTube's response shows exactly [TS]

  what the level of the problem really is [TS]

  it's like okay fine we have to be seen [TS]

  to be doing something so we're going to [TS]

  implement a quote solution to fix this [TS]

  trivial problem I think it was a good PR [TS]

  move on YouTube's side like I think that [TS]

  was a good decision to do but what I [TS]

  don't think is happening is behind the [TS]

  scenes is YouTube is going how jeez guys [TS]

  never trying to find bad content before [TS]

  we were just taking all the Pepsi's [TS]

  money and running it on these these [TS]

  horrible ads like shucks we better stop [TS]

  doing that I think again with YouTube in [TS]

  particular they already had a hell of an [TS]

  incentive to do this so I really don't [TS]

  think that there's something going on at [TS]

  YouTube where they're trying to like [TS]

  improve their categorization algorithm [TS]

  more than they already were doing but if [TS]

  they had already had this system in [TS]

  place this 10,000 view system mm-hmm [TS]

  wouldn't it have been the case that [TS]

  there would have been no beheading [TS]

  videos with Walmart ads next to them in [TS]

  the first place and they wouldn't have [TS]

  had this ammunition okay yeah right yes [TS]

  I would agree with that but what I'm [TS]

  saying is I think the amount of money [TS]

  here is so trivial that it is nothing [TS]

  right so what you're asking is is the [TS]

  difference between a literal 0 problem [TS]

  and a essentially near zero problem I [TS]

  don't think that that difference is a [TS]

  significant difference well it must feel [TS]

  significant when lot your stock price [TS]

  goes down by a billion dollars but this [TS]

  is my whole point [TS]

  it feels significant because the news [TS]

  has made a thing out of nothing to their [TS]

  own advantage should YouTube have seen [TS]

  it coming I don't know if YouTube should [TS]

  have seen it coming because I feel like [TS]

  you can't possibly see how your enemies [TS]

  are always going to attack you in the [TS]

  future but this seems like a really [TS]

  obvious attack to me I even suggested it [TS]

  in the context of freebooting shame [TS]

  advertisers by showing them what their [TS]

  content is being shown against like it [TS]

  seems like an obvious tactic if you'd [TS]

  sat me down and said Brady we need to [TS]

  stop ad people advertising on YouTube [TS]

  give us some ideas I think I would have [TS]

  come up with that in the first hour or [TS]

  two okay right yeah you're coming up [TS]

  with ways to attack YouTube yeah you're [TS]

  not selling me on like what an amazing [TS]

  piece of investigative journalism [TS]

  they're doing here right no no but what [TS]

  I'm saying in the context of should [TS]

  YouTube have been prepared for it and [TS]

  said we need to make sure that like [TS]

  we're not open to this attack because [TS]

  it's such an easy attack you know I'm [TS]

  not saying it's not trivial I'm saying [TS]

  it's easy to do I guess I sort of see [TS]

  what you're saying here but I feel like [TS]

  you're giving in to my whole premise [TS]

  then that this [TS]

  whole story is like a made-up nonsense [TS]

  story right like it isn't that surely [TS]

  the infuriating part and it's like a [TS]

  gigantic company is never going to be [TS]

  able to protect itself from generated [TS]

  fury you can never possibly foresee all [TS]

  of the ways that your enemies are going [TS]

  to attack you especially if they're able [TS]

  to spin up non problems into gigantic [TS]

  problems yeah okay so I'm saying is this [TS]

  does seem like an obvious one to me and [TS]

  if you think the ten thousand solution [TS]

  has an impact I'm surprised they didn't [TS]

  do it before yeah but again I don't see [TS]

  you're asking youtube to be able to [TS]

  anticipate all of the problems yeah I am [TS]

  actually I think a big smart business [TS]

  does sit around and anticipate all their [TS]

  problems and how they're going to get [TS]

  attacked and how to protect themselves [TS]

  against it don't they but presumably you [TS]

  would be concerned about your actual big [TS]

  problems first and you wouldn't [TS]

  necessarily be sitting around and [TS]

  thinking what are all of our tiniest [TS]

  problems I don't think this is a tiny [TS]

  problem for them [TS]

  I think it's been shown to not be a tiny [TS]

  problem for them again this is where [TS]

  language is a thing though yes this is [TS]

  now a real problem for YouTube that has [TS]

  been spun out of bullshit that's my [TS]

  feeling on this is like you can't [TS]

  foresee all of the both problems that [TS]

  someone is going to attack you with yeah [TS]

  but I think this one could have been for [TS]

  saying is what I'm saying I would have [TS]

  foreseen it well that's because you [TS]

  think like a yellow journalist okay [TS]

  because you know how the minds of [TS]

  journalists work and how they're going [TS]

  to attack their enemies [TS]

  so I guess YouTube should hire you as a [TS]

  consultant very good just sitting around [TS]

  thinking of all the ways you could [TS]

  attack them yeah I don't know great I [TS]

  don't know what to say because I don't [TS]

  know some of the stuff you're saying I [TS]

  don't know if you're right you're saying [TS]

  to me that the people making [TS]

  inappropriate content and making very [TS]

  very little money [TS]

  like nothing money you're saying that to [TS]

  me I don't know if that's true or not so [TS]

  I don't know whether to disagree with [TS]

  you yeah if that's true there's nothing [TS]

  really you're saying that's particularly [TS]

  wrong yeah just to be clear one of the [TS]

  bigger problems that is happening is [TS]

  this question of like what is advertiser [TS]

  appropriate on YouTube [TS]

  this gets very quickly into a realm [TS]

  where it's very hard to know what is [TS]

  happening but like I do sort of know [TS]

  through unofficial channels that YouTube [TS]

  does have behind the scenes like bins [TS]

  that they put different channels into of [TS]

  saying like oh this is perfectly okay [TS]

  content like this is unknown content [TS]

  yeah and there's a very different [TS]

  question about categorizing channels and [TS]

  what happens to channels that are [TS]

  considered more or less advertiser [TS]

  friendly again I think that that is like [TS]

  a related problem but a much more [TS]

  difficult to talk about problem because [TS]

  you just don't know but one of the [TS]

  things that I do start getting very [TS]

  uncomfortable about is what you're [TS]

  touching on here is like the boundaries [TS]

  of what do we consider okay and not okay [TS]

  content right and there's there's always [TS]

  like a huge gray area there on one end [TS]

  we have like the absolute stuff that [TS]

  everybody agrees is totally horrible but [TS]

  then as you start getting towards the [TS]

  end of the spectrum which is where I [TS]

  think the conflation starts beginning is [TS]

  like politically unpopular speech which [TS]

  starts becoming like a grey zone and you [TS]

  like well is this okay is this not okay [TS]

  like then that becomes much harder and [TS]

  to be clear I am 100% on the side like [TS]

  if advertisers don't want to advertise [TS]

  on politically unpopular videos like [TS]

  that's totally their prerogative it's [TS]

  their money to spend [TS]

  it's 100% their choice advertisers [TS]

  should be able to say like don't put our [TS]

  videos on anything that seems remotely [TS]

  political but then that starts getting [TS]

  into much more complicated questions [TS]

  about like what kind of content is [TS]

  YouTube implicitly through the way their [TS]

  system works promoting or not promoting [TS]

  the creation of this starts becoming a [TS]

  real mess like there are definitely [TS]

  channels on YouTube that get lots of [TS]

  views that you can point to easily that [TS]

  say like oh people don't like this [TS]

  channel and they're making a bunch of [TS]

  money but I think that gets very easily [TS]

  conflated with the absolute stuff that [TS]

  we all agree is horrible and so my [TS]

  stance is like the worst of the worst [TS]

  stuff is not making [TS]

  any money on YouTube but that doesn't [TS]

  mean that like channels where we start [TS]

  having some disagreement over are they [TS]

  making money like those channels do [TS]

  exist and I do think if advertisers [TS]

  don't want to advertise on them that is [TS]

  the advertisers prerogative but that's a [TS]

  much subtler question I think than what [TS]

  most of these new stories are talking [TS]

  about and I mean Google's solo it up the [TS]

  kazoo they must have contracts in place [TS]

  that are saying you know we don't know [TS]

  what people are putting in their videos [TS]

  sometimes and if suddenly CGP grey [TS]

  uploads a video that's different to all [TS]

  the ones that have come before it's hard [TS]

  for them to realize that your tone has [TS]

  changed immediately that is exactly [TS]

  right as I mentioned on the show before [TS]

  I was told by someone YouTube like oh [TS]

  you are listed as one of the school safe [TS]

  channels so YouTube has a mode which is [TS]

  where schools can have a super lockdown [TS]

  version of YouTube yeah and it's like [TS]

  okay that's great I know my channels on [TS]

  there but I could upload a video that's [TS]

  a different thing like how long does it [TS]

  take before the system would pull that [TS]

  yeah right this is what I mean by like [TS]

  you can never possibly have a perfect [TS]

  system here there's always going to be a [TS]

  thing that you can point to yeah at the [TS]

  higher levels it becomes a much more [TS]

  complicated issue to talk about hmm what [TS]

  do you think in there Brady well my [TS]

  overall feeling is that the old-school [TS]

  media particularly the times has really [TS]

  overcooked this and I'm finding it a [TS]

  little bit offensive how conflicted they [TS]

  are and how hard they're going and [TS]

  they've movie on the bounds of raising [TS]

  an issue and stirring up a bit of [TS]

  controversy and asking a few questions [TS]

  about accountability they've totally [TS]

  moved over into feathering their own [TS]

  nest mm-hmm [TS]

  however I do think it was legitimate to [TS]

  point out that there's this [TS]

  inappropriate content around sometimes [TS]

  it's got ads on it is this something [TS]

  that should questions should be asked [TS]

  about I think there was legitimate I [TS]

  still think it's legitimate I don't know [TS]

  I think you're coming across as very [TS]

  much like so Pro YouTube that it's [TS]

  almost like surprising it's an [TS]

  uncomfortable position to be in [TS]

  yeah and I do think that YouTube like [TS]

  any big company will sometimes only act [TS]

  to improve systems whether it's their [TS]

  algorithm and how things are [TS]

  when they have the blowtorch put on them [TS]

  so I do think sometimes it's good for a [TS]

  blowtorch such as media attention to be [TS]

  applied to companies to make them act [TS]

  and look at their systems and think [TS]

  should we have a 10,000 rule is there [TS]

  more we can do so I think it was fine to [TS]

  put a blowtorch on them but I think the [TS]

  blowtorch has gone way too far to some [TS]

  kind of SuperDuper mother of all flame [TS]

  throwers mm-hmm and it's gone beyond the [TS]

  realms of what was fair reporting and [TS]

  I'm finding it quite frustrating what do [TS]

  you think the net result is if you think [TS]

  the blowtorch has been held too long and [TS]

  turned up too high and we also have to [TS]

  look at creators on the margin right for [TS]

  whom this does have an impact right and [TS]

  a decrease in like we're looking at all [TS]

  of the various things and the [TS]

  possibility of what YouTube can change [TS]

  yeah in your view do you think this [TS]

  comes out as a net win or a net loss I [TS]

  think it when all the dust settles that [TS]

  for a few months or a year or two the [TS]

  needle has swung ever so slightly [TS]

  maybe the newspapers have stalled this [TS]

  move in advertising maybe slightly [TS]

  I think it's overall the trend will [TS]

  continue [TS]

  I think the creators who are the big [TS]

  losers are kind of collateral damage hmm [TS]

  I mean there's been a lot written about [TS]

  this and I think the interesting thing [TS]

  is what a lot of the experts I'm reading [TS]

  as saying is that all these big [TS]

  advertising budgets that are being [TS]

  pulled out of YouTube are just going to [TS]

  go into sort of Google ads and search [TS]

  anyway because they set aside you know [TS]

  100 million dollars a year for online [TS]

  advertising mm-hmm and they're just [TS]

  going to reallocate it around the [TS]

  internet anyway and goo who's gonna [TS]

  Hoover up most of it anyway well it was [TS]

  gonna go to Facebook but somebody else [TS]

  is next on the list yeah and also when [TS]

  you look at sort of the wording of all [TS]

  the media statements from the companies [TS]

  they're never saying we're pulling all [TS]

  their advertising from the internet or [TS]

  Google they're quite canny with their [TS]

  wording usually so you can tell they're [TS]

  still advertising online so I don't [TS]

  think it's quite the victory for [TS]

  newspapers that they probably think [TS]

  they've landed the only real losers are [TS]

  probably you and me well this is why [TS]

  I've arranged my whole business so that [TS]

  this isn't a problem yeah this is why I [TS]

  have my fantastic patrons yeah it is [TS]

  really interesting because I'm I've been [TS]

  digging around [TS]

  data for my own analytics behind the [TS]

  scenes trying to see what I can see yeah [TS]

  and I am fairly certain that the video I [TS]

  uploaded about the YouTube system has [TS]

  been put into some kind of political [TS]

  category because I could see what the [TS]

  CPM s were at the start mmm and like for [TS]

  the first two days it was lower than [TS]

  normal and then all of a sudden it [TS]

  crashed to almost nothing and it's like [TS]

  ha this is really interesting like [TS]

  somewhere switched was clearly flipped [TS]

  where the algorithm thinks oh this is a [TS]

  video maybe about politics or whatever [TS]

  like who knows what it is but it's [TS]

  interesting because I've never had a [TS]

  video do that before like comparing it [TS]

  with everything else where it's like [TS]

  okay now this is earning essentially [TS]

  nothing it's interesting to see but I [TS]

  still say like its creators on the [TS]

  margin who are most affected by this but [TS]

  yeah I didn't hear a clear answer from [TS]

  you there of overall summing everything [TS]

  up is this whole debacle that happens on [TS]

  the long scale is it a net positive for [TS]

  the world or is it a net negative for [TS]

  the world [TS]

  what does Brady think oh no I think it [TS]

  just balances out like so might as well [TS]

  have not happened it's a net neutral [TS]

  that's what you're saying like [TS]

  everything in the world there are lot [TS]

  winners and losers who are the winners I [TS]

  feel like this is very important who do [TS]

  you think is the winner in this [TS]

  situation who comes out better after [TS]

  these news stories whoa I'm sure if you [TS]

  ask Google and YouTube if they could [TS]

  turn back the clock and have the stories [TS]

  not appear they would say yes let's have [TS]

  them not appear and if you ask the times [TS]

  do you regret running them do you want [TS]

  to not do them they would say no no [TS]

  we're glad we did it so based on that [TS]

  clearly the winners in that battle is [TS]

  the newspaper I think it will result in [TS]

  it being a little bit harder for people [TS]

  creating an appropriate content to make [TS]

  money so that's like a small positive [TS]

  that's come out of it I don't know how [TS]

  big a positive because again I don't [TS]

  know how much money these make you tell [TS]

  me it's nothing you're more likely to [TS]

  know than me so I'm assuming a right but [TS]

  I don't know that you're right [TS]

  regardless I think it will be even [TS]

  harder to make money with inappropriate [TS]

  content now I think that's a good result [TS]

  I think people who [TS]

  make their living via revenue on YouTube [TS]

  have taken a hit I don't know how long [TS]

  that hit will last for their losers if [TS]

  they are making appropriate content [TS]

  which most of them are so I don't really [TS]

  think of it like that I don't really [TS]

  think of it as winners and losers that I [TS]

  just think it's like I've really got to [TS]

  do the society calculus right we add up [TS]

  all the benefits and all the harms alike [TS]

  and there's a net positive for the world [TS]

  or a net negative for the world I need a [TS]

  bit longer I haven't got all the data I [TS]

  mean I haven't got enough data to know [TS]

  how big the problem was yeah that's that [TS]

  that is the big unknown you think it's [TS]

  completely trivial I think it's much [TS]

  much less than the times made it sound [TS]

  but I don't know if it's as trivial as [TS]

  you're making it sound mmm [TS]

  I don't know if it was a problem I think [TS]

  it kind of was a problem but if these [TS]

  videos have made like half of one cent [TS]

  and they just screen captured the one [TS]

  moment in history when an ad was served [TS]

  against it then okay it was not a [TS]

  problem I tend to think it must be a [TS]

  little bit worse than that all I can go [TS]

  on is the fact that when people free [TS]

  boot my videos there's certainly a [TS]

  boatload of ads running against them so [TS]

  whatever mechanisms are in place to stop [TS]

  freebooting aren't working and people [TS]

  are making money from that a little [TS]

  different I don't think those things get [TS]

  flagged as fast as a terrorist [TS]

  recruitment video I realize that but [TS]

  what I'm saying is that's all I've got [TS]

  to go on right and if that's all I've [TS]

  got to go on then the history has shown [TS]

  me that these hosts of media aren't [TS]

  particularly super red-hot on doing this [TS]

  they do it they get around to it and if [TS]

  this has made them improve their systems [TS]

  a bit if the new 10,000 rule is a big [TS]

  positive then something's come of it I [TS]

  guess but don't get me wrong I think it [TS]

  was a bit scummy the times are overdone [TS]

  er they're continuing to overdo it it's [TS]

  driving me crazy it's making me a little [TS]

  bit mad now when I read age mourning [TS]

  it's like just because of the brazenness [TS]

  of it I think more than anything like [TS]

  the obvious of it I just find it a [TS]

  little bit [TS]

  yeah bit yucky you know like I don't [TS]

  care about Facebook but I don't like [TS]

  Facebook no I don't like me look I [TS]

  reckon I still don't want to see that [TS]

  their business slandered essential [TS]

  their business slandered essential [TS]

  blew by supposedly reputable news [TS]

  sources I don't I agree I've done a [TS]

  really terrible job of answering a [TS]

  question because I don't really think of [TS]

  it in terms of winners and losers it's [TS]

  been bit of a mucky episode but you know [TS]

  a Walmart aired running against one [TS]

  beheading video is also unfortunate I [TS]

  understand why it happens and the system [TS]

  we work in but I think you're a lot more [TS]

  of an apologist for these automated [TS]

  systems than i apologist the apologist [TS]

  realist brady really was a realist I [TS]

  think you can always make it better and [TS]

  I think they don't have best in making [TS]

  these things better until they felt the [TS]

  heat I don't think they should have felt [TS]

  as much heat as they have when this much [TS]

  money moves around and investment is [TS]

  pulled real lives are affected and we [TS]

  shouldn't forget that as well but I also [TS]

  think like in general terms one of the [TS]

  roles the media can play is holding [TS]

  businesses to account that aren't doing [TS]

  enough to do their job properly I don't [TS]

  know if that's what happened here you [TS]

  say absolutely not I say maybe they [TS]

  could have done more maybe I'd like to [TS]

  see some data I do think that's a [TS]

  legitimate role for journalists to play [TS]

  I don't think the times should be [TS]

  beating their chests about [TS]

  investigations I think this is trivial [TS]

  what they've done they've just spun it [TS]

  into a clever story that there we go [TS]

  it's happened that's a we can say for [TS]

  sure it's a thing that happened that we [TS]

  and I'll be introducing how it ends [TS]

  it'll never end they'll do this forever [TS]

  I'll find another read on some obscure [TS]

  video and then add a little kick off [TS]

  again it'll never end Brady that I can [TS]

  pretty much guarantee you it'll end when [TS]

  the times goes out of business this [TS]

  episode of hello Internet is brought to [TS]

  you in part by Harry's Harry's was [TS]

  started by two guys Jeff and Andy who [TS]

  were fed up with being overcharged for [TS]

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  a blade compared to the four or more [TS]

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  always like to mention is not in the [TS]

  copy here but the hairy stuff just feels [TS]

  really nice in the hand they're not [TS]

  kidding about that weighted handle it [TS]

  just it's way better than those cheapo [TS]

  blue razors you might have a full bag of [TS]

  somewhere in your house if you have one [TS]

  of those bags with a bunch of blue [TS]

  cheapo razors seriously get rid of them [TS]

  get Harries instead you will be much [TS]

  happier it's much nicer stuff to use and [TS]

  you're going to get a better shave and [TS]

  it looks nice there in your bathroom as [TS]

  well they really take care with the way [TS]

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  Perris is so confident in the quality of [TS]

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  offer go to harrys.com and use the offer [TS]

  code h eye [TS]

  once again that's Harry's com offer code [TS]

  H eye [TS]

  thanks to Harry's for supporting the [TS]

  show and thanks to Harry's for giving [TS]

  men everywhere a better shave okay gray [TS]

  let's do it I have finally finished [TS]

  Westworld [TS]

  I started watching this and stopped then [TS]

  you told me you'd watched it and [TS]

  finished it so I I went back to it and [TS]

  finished it so that we have both speak [TS]

  from position of knowledge yes although [TS]

  at this point it has been quite a while [TS]

  since I watched Westworld yeah so I [TS]

  think our conversation might be somewhat [TS]

  brief but I'm happy to discuss Westworld [TS]

  a little bit because everybody seemed to [TS]

  want us to at least touch upon it [TS]

  yeah and as I briefly mentioned when we [TS]

  first brought it up but you you wanted [TS]

  to cut me off this is an example of [TS]

  people recommending a thing recommending [TS]

  it in the right way simply just saying [TS]

  watch Westworld [TS]

  not mentioning anything about it [TS]

  and I watched a thing and I definitely [TS]

  enjoyed it so this was a good [TS]

  recommendation [TS]

  from the audience from my perspective [TS]

  now since the Brady rule is that you [TS]

  have to lay your cards down on the table [TS]

  yep we can't play poker not across a [TS]

  smoky table yeah with guns on our side [TS]

  we have to just put it down on the table [TS]

  yep what did you think Brady well what [TS]

  is your opinion of the west-world [TS]

  well we've both kind of tipped our hands [TS]

  a little bit yeah but you didn't finish [TS]

  it so it doesn't no but I did stop [TS]

  because I wasn't enjoying it mm-hmm and [TS]

  a lot of people did say to me now stick [TS]

  with it it gets better which I don't [TS]

  agree with I kind of do agree with it I [TS]

  do agree with that I enjoyed the second [TS]

  half more than the first half of the [TS]

  series mm-hmm so should I go first and [TS]

  say a few things a few of my thoughts [TS]

  yeah but so is that a you liked it this [TS]

  is worth watching this was a good look [TS]

  at my time okay it's a high quality show [TS]

  it's well-made it's thought-provoking [TS]

  it's interesting it has a lot to [TS]

  recommend itself and I would say watch [TS]

  if someone said to me Brady I'm thinking [TS]

  of watching Westworld should I do it I [TS]

  would say yes definitely do it okay [TS]

  great that's what I wanted to know [TS]

  that's what I was interested in and yet [TS]

  frankly I feel a little bit relieved [TS]

  that that is your opinion [TS]

  yeah because my feeling is like if [TS]

  someone watches two episodes of [TS]

  Westworld and they don't like it I don't [TS]

  think I could confidently say you should [TS]

  go on and continue to watch it because I [TS]

  feel like it is what it is right from [TS]

  the start and right through the end so [TS]

  it's interesting that you had a bit of a [TS]

  different experience that you liked it [TS]

  more as it went on okay I can maybe [TS]

  explain why that's the case I'll say the [TS]

  things I didn't like about it okay [TS]

  because that's always the most [TS]

  interesting yeah it's an it's the [TS]

  easiest and the most fun is to complain [TS]

  about yeah now Westworld [TS]

  started at a slight disadvantage because [TS]

  I think I don't have a natural affinity [TS]

  for the Wild West genre ah yeah and half [TS]

  the show is kind of wild Westy obviously [TS]

  half the shows in all the cool super [TS]

  high-tech labs but half of the show is [TS]

  out in the theme park ones all wild [TS]

  Westy and I just don't have a natural [TS]

  enjoyment of the [TS]

  Wester Chandra don't Australians have [TS]

  like a Wild West there must have been [TS]

  like cowboy genres out in Australia [TS]

  right yeah we we had our frontiers and [TS]

  that doesn't mean that I like the genre [TS]

  in films just because I'm from a country [TS]

  where we had a frontier no I disagree [TS]

  100 percent of Americans love the West [TS]