The Accidental Tech Podcast

217: Apology Mac Pro


  we need more investigative journalism [TS]

  known actually I mean with the exception [TS]

  of I guess 9to5 mac and Bloomberg [TS]

  because they got what's-his-name like [TS]

  who's out there digging through [TS]

  dumpsters to find out what the new Mac [TS]

  Pro is going to be let's get some [TS]

  journalism old fashion journalism on [TS]

  this I think first Apple needs to figure [TS]

  out what the new Mac Pro suppose yeah [TS]

  well you know if you dig through [TS]

  dumpsters and find out like you know too [TS]

  bad they don't use paper anymore but [TS]

  like find out there just now having [TS]

  meetings about what they might do about [TS]

  this like you can get time lines on it [TS]

  but anyway as time passes and we wait [TS]

  for wec to appear things could leak [TS]

  let's you know let's find stuff out [TS]

  let's get some engineers drunk let's [TS]

  find out some answers yeah because that [TS]

  always works all that gets you as a [TS]

  pre-release iphone yeah that's the only [TS]

  thing that works yeah I mean I can spoil [TS]

  it for you right now John you're not [TS]

  going to know until like it launches the [TS]

  two things that you're going to complain [TS]

  about and commit yourself not to buy it [TS]

  about you're not gonna know the price [TS]

  ain't not going to know the GPU choice [TS]

  ah the GPU choice could leak like if [TS]

  they're using nvidia i feel like i could [TS]

  leak right and if they are using nvidia [TS]

  they're going to be they're going to be [TS]

  using pascal it might leak that they're [TS]

  using in video but it wouldn't it [TS]

  wouldn't leak like which one they're [TS]

  using you know that it would leak that [TS]

  are using pascal architecture would just [TS]

  be a question of like which part but [TS]

  like even that would be enough like I [TS]

  said you know to be exciting it's been [TS]

  so long since we talked a lot has [TS]

  happened in the news this week of april [TS]

  eighth or ninth or whatever right you [TS]

  know today as we talk has obviously got [TS]

  to be april 12 2017 of course this but [TS]

  rather than talk about the exciting news [TS]

  that has happened this week we thought [TS]

  we'd talk more about what has happened [TS]

  say early last week maybe before april [TS]

  sixth indeed yeah we thought we'd just [TS]

  do a recap because why wouldn't we and [TS]

  and so here we are and so that that [TS]

  amazing news about nintendo that [TS]

  happened you know just a couple of days [TS]

  ago on the 10th through the 11th we're [TS]

  going to save that for next week the [TS]

  good news is we've covered everything [TS]

  that we could possibly cover about the [TS]

  mac pro so we don't have to talk about [TS]

  it until it comes out in 2019 so let's [TS]

  talk about some other things do we [TS]

  really have no follow-up trademark [TS]

  about the mac bro that Casey get through [TS]

  his little song and dance don't worry [TS]

  don't you worry all right I can't even [TS]

  take this seriously because I know that [TS]

  I'll be murdered if I don't bring up Mac [TS]

  Pro stuff so here we go kids that crunch [TS]

  the things I do for you to I hope you [TS]

  appreciate me I'm so sorry Casey I'm [TS]

  just so sorry for you for during this [TS]

  time I know this is this is a very [TS]

  difficult time to be on on our podcast [TS]

  during Mac for a week and back for a [TS]

  week a week right you should be me it's [TS]

  Mac Pro's ear yeah i'm going to call [TS]

  this the the year of mac pro and we're [TS]

  just going to keep calling it the year [TS]

  of mac pro until they release one right [TS]

  which might be a whole other year right [TS]

  uh anyway all right let's do a little [TS]

  follow-up about the mac pro and then [TS]

  hopefully we can move on techcrunch matt [TS]

  pans reno and team at techcrunch have [TS]

  posted the full transcript of their [TS]

  meeting i guess he recorded it by some [TS]

  mechanism and had hammer one of his [TS]

  people go ahead and transcribe it also [TS]

  we will put that in the show notes i've [TS]

  yet to have a chance to even look at it [TS]

  there are definitely parts as much as I [TS]

  snark that um that I that I think are [TS]

  interesting that I'd like to read a [TS]

  little more about but I have another [TS]

  chance yet so you can check that out in [TS]

  the show notes is that really the only [TS]

  Mac Pro follow because how many other [TS]

  topic I see the topic is anyway we'll [TS]

  get to it on the transcript I read the [TS]

  whole transcript and of course surprise [TS]

  surprise the you know the people they [TS]

  had their reporting on it did a good job [TS]

  reporting on it like there's any [TS]

  important information in the transcript [TS]

  that you're missing you can read it just [TS]

  to get a flavor of what they said and [TS]

  stuff like that but this it was well [TS]

  covered but you know it's not as if they [TS]

  left out of major sections that were [TS]

  important the only fun thing about the [TS]

  transcript as you can see since it's a [TS]

  fairly faithful transcript I would [TS]

  imagine because it's got all people's [TS]

  false starts and weird sentence [TS]

  structures and stuff it's just what [TS]

  happens when people speak you can see [TS]

  occasionally people getting their [TS]

  raining in their instincts one [TS]

  particular instance is a Craig federighi [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  you know the old Mac Pro and the [TS]

  architecture with the tube in the [TS]

  heating and you know how it was [TS]

  difficult to put different components [TS]

  and everything and so he talks about all [TS]

  of that and then he said how they really [TS]

  put a lot of energy behind that design [TS]

  and his the next bit is in retrospect [TS]

  that was dot dot dot and he's about to [TS]

  say in retrospect that was it that was a [TS]

  mistake that was the right idea that was [TS]

  not the right thing to do but he doesn't [TS]

  say that because he's disciplined he [TS]

  gets into the sentence for that he is [TS]

  abort abort in retrospect that was new [TS]

  sentence while that system is going to [TS]

  be fantastic for a huge number of [TS]

  customers we want to do more there you [TS]

  go and fill smiles next to us it's a [TS]

  good job Greggy almost you almost landed [TS]

  in it there but anyway they're very [TS]

  disciplined with their message Craig [TS]

  still manages to be funny and witty [TS]

  within the bounds of being disciplined [TS]

  for PR and Phyllis is Phyllis fell he's [TS]

  the guy we know and love so if if you [TS]

  have seen a lot of presentations with [TS]

  the people who are at this meeting then [TS]

  you will definitely get the flavor of [TS]

  them just reading the transcript and I [TS]

  don't know much about John Curtis I'm [TS]

  not sure I've ever seen him on stage but [TS]

  he's the other guy fair enough alright [TS]

  moving on that's then just like that [TS]

  we're done with Mac Pro right kids right [TS]

  okay so work alone so somebody that [TS]

  listen star show had a conversation with [TS]

  the support team at work flow and they [TS]

  received the following email which was [TS]

  then forwarded on to us the person at [TS]

  work flow said you know blah blah blah [TS]

  fix for your problem blah blah blah but [TS]

  just so you know we have no further [TS]

  planned updates for workflow that being [TS]

  said we are continuing to support [TS]

  workflows current functionality have no [TS]

  plans to end supports let me know if you [TS]

  run across any buds or crashes cue the [TS]

  sad trombone here Marco womp womp yeah I [TS]

  mean to be honest like you know when we [TS]

  when workflow was acquired and we did [TS]

  mention like you know they they might [TS]

  just let it die or kill it outright and [TS]

  you know have have the staff work on [TS]

  other stuff built into iOS that was kind [TS]

  of the the long term idea that was most [TS]

  likely to happen I will admit I did not [TS]

  foresee them [TS]

  because of the way it was bought and [TS]

  because of the messaging around the time [TS]

  that it was bought and and what they [TS]

  told the users I did not foresee them [TS]

  totally stopping all updates to the app [TS]

  right now or at least like I think what [TS]

  what what this the other way this reads [TS]

  it's like they might do bug fix updates [TS]

  but that's it like no new features are [TS]

  coming to work flow and that is [TS]

  unfortunate but i guess not a huge [TS]

  surprise you know because like that's [TS]

  that's what happens with you know this [TS]

  was clearly an aqua hire you know in the [TS]

  sense that Apple wanted the staff more [TS]

  than the product and whether that was to [TS]

  make the staff work on something boring [TS]

  like you know Mail app probably not it [TS]

  was probably to have the staff work on [TS]

  workflow like functionality you know the [TS]

  automation technologies for iOS that you [TS]

  know that's that's my guess but the fact [TS]

  is if you're a workflow user this [TS]

  doesn't make it any easier to take that [TS]

  basically workflow is effectively dead [TS]

  in in the sense that no one will really [TS]

  be working on it anymore unless they [TS]

  want to fix some bugs for some reason [TS]

  but that's about it so that that is [TS]

  pretty unfortunate for workflow users [TS]

  and i hope i hope that in the end this [TS]

  will prove worth it you know like in in [TS]

  in many aqua hires what happens is the [TS]

  product gets shut down the team goes to [TS]

  work on something similar within the [TS]

  bigger acquiring company and sometimes [TS]

  that sees the light of day and sometimes [TS]

  it doesn't or sometimes what what [TS]

  eventually comes out of that from the [TS]

  bigger company is not nearly as good as [TS]

  the acquired app was and it's kind of a [TS]

  crapshoot you don't really know so I I [TS]

  hope that this will lead to better stuff [TS]

  in iOS that will replace the need for [TS]

  workflow for the people who use it today [TS]

  but honestly you know that's not the [TS]

  most likely outcome the most likely [TS]

  outcome is iOS stove moves forward a [TS]

  little bit you know we get some part of [TS]

  this in a future version of iOS and then [TS]

  maybe maybe you know the original staff [TS]

  who created it goes to work on other [TS]

  things with an apple or maybe after a [TS]

  few years they got unhappy and leave and [TS]

  do something else that's that kind of [TS]

  thing is more likely to happen [TS]

  then then iOS gaining complete [TS]

  functionality like workflow or even [TS]

  something close to it I tell you I I [TS]

  place much higher odds on workflow being [TS]

  an apple-branded application for some [TS]

  period of time you know like that it [TS]

  would be brought into the fold workflow [TS]

  by Apple as a downloadable thing on the [TS]

  App Store possibly bundled with the [TS]

  future Wes update wild you know while [TS]

  they worked on the next integration of [TS]

  you know and just this is pretty quick [TS]

  it wasn't like you said the the press [TS]

  releases and then very shortly after [TS]

  yeah we're not doing that in what's been [TS]

  like 10 days like it has not been very [TS]

  long yes at times hi I don't know I mean [TS]

  I don't know what to make of all this [TS]

  it's just gonna be interesting watching [TS]

  Mike have to become a real true [TS]

  honest-to-goodness programmer and [TS]

  writing Python easter spells cause he's [TS]

  gonna be he's gonna have no other choice [TS]

  so Mike welcome to our world well no cuz [TS]

  workflow will keep working like I think [TS]

  they will keep it working it's just like [TS]

  I've been flowing you know well yeah [TS]

  well what are were their major features [TS]

  that people want add to work for like [TS]

  you can you can add workflows people can [TS]

  continue to do that and share and [TS]

  distribute those isn't the workflow app [TS]

  is just the engine so I feel like it [TS]

  should last people until something new [TS]

  comes but so that that's a good outcome [TS]

  but if you were if you were really [TS]

  excited about the engine gaining [TS]

  features then you're sad well so you [TS]

  know what if you know in in the past I [TS]

  remember like what extensions came out [TS]

  and I think even sometime last year for [TS]

  some reason I've discussed on this show [TS]

  how I think the future of you are of URL [TS]

  scheme usage on iOS is probably limited [TS]

  because you know now Apple has things [TS]

  like universal links which replace a lot [TS]

  of the need for URL schemes for like [TS]

  average juices and X callback URL and [TS]

  things like that are used only by a [TS]

  narrow amount of power users for like [TS]

  legitimate purposes and there's lots of [TS]

  abuses that they're used for and Apple [TS]

  has slowly clamped down that over time [TS]

  to the degree that they can with various [TS]

  iOS changes like having to declare your [TS]

  URL schemes that you that you query for [TS]

  in your info type plist file and stuff [TS]

  like that [TS]

  but it's it's no real secret that Apple [TS]

  is not a huge fan of URL schemes being [TS]

  used for purposes like this that i would [TS]

  guess Apple probably wants to get rid of [TS]

  them and you know make them actually [TS]

  impossible for various privacy and [TS]

  security reasons which is completely [TS]

  reasonable so it would not surprise me [TS]

  at all if you know say I maybe not iOS [TS]

  11 but maybe iOS 12 maybe end support [TS]

  for calling other apps via openurl and [TS]

  can open URL and at that point workflow [TS]

  would you know they're there are still [TS]

  other features of workflow as it exists [TS]

  today it could do other things but that [TS]

  would lop off such a big portion of what [TS]

  it could do that I think that would [TS]

  effectively kill the app and hopefully [TS]

  by the time Apple does something like [TS]

  that if they're going to do something [TS]

  like that hopefully they would have some [TS]

  kind of replacement in mind like maybe [TS]

  whatever the workflow staff is working [TS]

  on an apple now I hope that's how it [TS]

  would go but the thing is with big [TS]

  companies and with acquisitions you [TS]

  don't know that's gonna it's actually [TS]

  gonna go that way like that could be [TS]

  everyone's intention and plan now but at [TS]

  big companies things change you know in [TS]

  six months there something else might be [TS]

  a bigger priority they might be [TS]

  reassigned to work on that and this [TS]

  project just doesn't continue or [TS]

  anything like that I mean this is kind [TS]

  of just a side effect of the the [TS]

  economy's going on here you know if you [TS]

  know like I had a early on in insta [TS]

  papers days I had a couple of early [TS]

  discussions about aqua hires companies [TS]

  you know some some of the big tech [TS]

  companies wanting to buy Instapaper for [TS]

  some relatively insignificant amount in [TS]

  order to get me to come work for them [TS]

  and these conversations always stopped [TS]

  pretty early on because at that time is [TS]

  people was making very good money [TS]

  because it was selling for like ten [TS]

  bucks and then later five bucks in the [TS]

  app store and it was selling pretty well [TS]

  and so whenever I would whenever we get [TS]

  to them to the money part of the early [TS]

  conversations it would very quickly end [TS]

  the conversations because it was like [TS]

  well it for me to stop making this money [TS]

  from this app you're going to have to [TS]

  pay at least X for it and that was more [TS]

  than they were willing to pay to just [TS]

  get some engineer to come work for [TS]

  and the problem is that as the app [TS]

  economy has gotten worse and as the the [TS]

  you know big handful of tech companies [TS]

  have gotten bigger and have had more [TS]

  money and have even tighter competition [TS]

  for engineering talent the reishi like [TS]

  the the economics of this have shifted [TS]

  so much so that it is very hard for most [TS]

  app developers to turn down a decent [TS]

  aqua hire deal today because most apps [TS]

  are not making that much money anymore [TS]

  and these companies can now afford to [TS]

  pay a lot for good engineering talent [TS]

  and they would rather and they're soaked [TS]

  there's so much competition for that [TS]

  they would rather do that then then you [TS]

  know let these apps continue I guess and [TS]

  so the and again like as the developers [TS]

  of these apps you can't really fault [TS]

  them because if someone comes around [TS]

  offering them like you know ten times [TS]

  what they're making now per year in an [TS]

  upfront some to buy their app and then [TS]

  oh you'll also have a nice stable job [TS]

  with us instead of having to rely on the [TS]

  ups and downs of your apps on the App [TS]

  Store I don't blame developers at all [TS]

  for taking those offers they you know in [TS]

  many ways like well you can't really say [TS]

  no to to some of these offers because [TS]

  they're so good and the only way this is [TS]

  ever going to change is if the economics [TS]

  of of app development change such that [TS]

  it is more worthwhile for people to keep [TS]

  their apps and not sell them and not [TS]

  take jobs somewhere else then to do that [TS]

  but I don't see that happening in the [TS]

  near future right if anything I see [TS]

  things going the other direction just [TS]

  assume the work will developers have [TS]

  gotten to work on the Mac Pro it's a [TS]

  safe bet rent no because apparently the [TS]

  Mac Pro is only started a week ago and [TS]

  they they went there 10 days ago we're [TS]

  getting to that we'll get to it oh my [TS]

  word you guys I didn't even start my [TS]

  holiday party yet this is gonna be a [TS]

  long show for me probably should we were [TS]

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  fracture for sponsoring our show tell me [TS]

  John about a possible explanation for [TS]

  increased free space with a PFS on 10.3 [TS]

  if you please continuing the streak of a [TS]

  PFS follow-up and what are we on like [TS]

  five shows in a row now I don't know [TS]

  we're keeping the streak alive some show [TS]

  in the past we talked about people [TS]

  upgrading to iOS 10.3 and saying hey I [TS]

  have more free space available on my iOS [TS]

  device now and you know that could have [TS]

  been clearing caches or just rebooting [TS]

  or other things related to the upgrade [TS]

  and not related to the file system [TS]

  itself I heard one theory that I thought [TS]

  was worth pondering it has to do with a [TS]

  PFS space sharing [TS]

  I thought you guys remember what that is [TS]

  because I think your eyes glad we're [TS]

  going to talk about a PFS but yep I do [TS]

  hey it's basically copy-on-write right [TS]

  no no it's the that's one of the [TS]

  features but the thing they caught refer [TS]

  to a space sharing is well is this the [TS]

  thing where you can have like two [TS]

  different partitions that both kind of [TS]

  share some space and so it's kind of [TS]

  like whoever fills the first gets to [TS]

  keep it exactly so you got a one gig [TS]

  disk and you can put two partitions on [TS]

  it you can put 21 gig partitions on it [TS]

  you're like how can you put 21 gig [TS]

  partitions on a one gig disk can't you [TS]

  put two partitions that are like 500 and [TS]

  500 + 250 or 750 how can you have 21 gig [TS]

  partitions that makes no sense as [TS]

  exactly how space sharing works that I [TS]

  figure with the terms are they call it a [TS]

  container or something and within the [TS]

  container you could have separate [TS]

  volumes and they share that space and [TS]

  like Marco said whoever fills it first [TS]

  wins right and that produces weird weird [TS]

  results for saying how much free space [TS]

  you have any way so this theory goes [TS]

  that iOS has I don't know if this is [TS]

  true maybe Marco does although I've [TS]

  heard it before that as to places where [TS]

  put stuff one is sort of the OS [TS]

  partition and one is the user space [TS]

  partition and they are separate from [TS]

  each other does that sound familiar [TS]

  Marco honestly I've never looked that [TS]

  low level at the OS that's a question [TS]

  for seat for Steve trout and Smith not [TS]

  me yeah anyway um the idea is that yeah [TS]

  there's an arrangement that has been [TS]

  there for a while but with a PFS and [TS]

  space sharing it changes the way free [TS]

  space is reported and that the increase [TS]

  in free space you're seeing is related [TS]

  to that now I tried to think through [TS]

  this to say well how does that work [TS]

  exactly what would that do and what you [TS]

  know having the notes your experiments [TS]

  required unfortunately because we just [TS]

  record four days ago I have not done [TS]

  these experiments but changing the way [TS]

  space is both shared and reported with [TS]

  the file system could possibly account [TS]

  for discrepancies in what is reported in [TS]

  the u.s. you would think that apple [TS]

  would work this out but you know in that [TS]

  example I just gave what is the right [TS]

  thing to do if you have 21 gig [TS]

  partitions on a one gig disk and you ask [TS]

  one of them how much free space it's [TS]

  going to say I have one gig available [TS]

  and the ass the other one it's going to [TS]

  say I have one gig available that's kind [TS]

  of the truth because there's nothing in [TS]

  the disk that both technically do have [TS]

  one gig available but if they were to [TS]

  both start filling really fast you're [TS]

  not going to fit one gig into each one [TS]

  of those things so now you have like [TS]

  smartass file systems now [TS]

  like well technically I have one gig [TS]

  available I didn't lie to you right you [TS]

  could put what you could put one gig be [TS]

  as long as you put nothing in any of the [TS]

  other partitions that are sharing the [TS]

  same space yeah anyway I I really you [TS]

  know i wish i had more information to [TS]

  provide but i just want to bring up [TS]

  space sharing to remind people that [TS]

  space sharing a pms is the thing and [TS]

  it's weird and it's this is one of those [TS]

  things where it's difficult from user [TS]

  interface perspective to determine what [TS]

  is the right thing to do it's not like [TS]

  oh you just need to update your [TS]

  operating system to report to understand [TS]

  a PFS and report the right thing [TS]

  people's mental model of how space works [TS]

  on disks does not match how a PFS file [TS]

  you know space sharing works so i don't [TS]

  know what they're going to do on mac OS [TS]

  iOS you don't this doesn't manifest in [TS]

  any way that you can see except perhaps [TS]

  in this free space thing but further [TS]

  news as events warrant maybe next week i [TS]

  will have some experiments and next week [TS]

  is actually two weeks from now oh [TS]

  goodness alright fair enough can we talk [TS]

  about t-shirts because we've had a [TS]

  little bit of agita with our t-shirt [TS]

  rolled out this year so you guys have [TS]

  been generous enough to spend most of [TS]

  your time doing this I have been [TS]

  completely swamped in all aspects of [TS]

  life this week so take me through the [TS]

  pain and suffering that you've gone [TS]

  through to bring t-shirts to our lovely [TS]

  listeners I don't want to go through the [TS]

  pain and suffering but I do want to say [TS]

  that as usual every time we do a t-shirt [TS]

  launch there's something that's weird or [TS]

  wrong and hot about it and we work it [TS]

  out this time it was about mostly about [TS]

  size availability where as far as we're [TS]

  able to determine we had no visibility [TS]

  into what sizes will be available until [TS]

  after we launch it and in that and then [TS]

  when we launched it like the you can go [TS]

  to the size pop-up menu like I pick the [TS]

  shirk that I want now I need to pick my [TS]

  size and you will see all the sizes [TS]

  listed all the sizes that we could see [TS]

  before lunch we can see this shirt is [TS]

  available from extra small to 3x L right [TS]

  and then we launched it and you go to [TS]

  the shirt and you see that pop-up menu [TS]

  with those sizes in it but only two of [TS]

  them would be selectable if I usually [TS]

  extra small and some other weird size [TS]

  like none of the common sizes would be [TS]

  available to you and that's bad we want [TS]

  the shirt to be available in all sizes [TS]

  so what we had to do for a lot of the [TS]

  shirts is sort of delete or end the [TS]

  campaigns which by the way some people [TS]

  bought shirts and those campaigns and my [TS]

  understanding is they [TS]

  we'll get delivered it is kind of weird [TS]

  that you you were the one of the two or [TS]

  three lucky people who got that shirt [TS]

  before we frantically deleted it and [TS]

  you're sure might be titled ATP shirt [TS]

  delete me in the emails that you get a [TS]

  better if you get an email and it says [TS]

  delete me that's us trying to keep track [TS]

  of which ones are the old bad ones and [TS]

  which ones are the new good ones and [TS]

  anyway and we replace them with [TS]

  identical-looking shirts but with shirts [TS]

  from a different vendor who had stock in [TS]

  all sizes and we've been working on that [TS]

  working with teespring to get more size [TS]

  it's available and recreating them and [TS]

  so on and so forth all this is to say [TS]

  that have you tried to buy a shirt [TS]

  because you heard the show last week or [TS]

  whenever and you went there and you [TS]

  couldn't find the shirt in the size you [TS]

  wanted or the shirt wasn't available in [TS]

  any sizes which was true or some cases [TS]

  like the purple one that I really loved [TS]

  was literally available in 0 sizes like [TS]

  you could no one could order it because [TS]

  you could not select any sizes at all it [TS]

  would let you hit by now and then it's a [TS]

  please pick your size and they were all [TS]

  disabled so that's fixed you get your [TS]

  purple shirts now we added a few shirts [TS]

  to be larger sizes because some of the [TS]

  other shirts only went up to 2 XL and [TS]

  now we have three XL and I think up to [TS]

  5xl on the European one so and also [TS]

  finally teespring is told us that as [TS]

  stock comes in four different sizes and [TS]

  different colors those sizes will become [TS]

  available so technically if you just [TS]

  want to you know wait and check back [TS]

  next week or something even if the size [TS]

  isn't available right now maybe it will [TS]

  become available so we apologize for [TS]

  this it's difficult we'll try to do [TS]

  better next year as always every year we [TS]

  have to have something last year it was [TS]

  really expensive shipping outside the US [TS]

  this year we do not have super duper [TS]

  expensive shipping outside the US which [TS]

  is good but we have some size issues so [TS]

  thank you to everybody who's bought [TS]

  shirts and good luck out there yeah we [TS]

  you know last year we had to apologize [TS]

  for the expensive international shipping [TS]

  and this year we're having to apologize [TS]

  for some of these operational issues and [TS]

  we we are sorry that we have to deal [TS]

  with this and you have to deal with this [TS]

  the reality is that printing and [TS]

  shipping shirts all over the world is [TS]

  complicated and you know we every vendor [TS]

  who does it has different trade-offs [TS]

  we've now tried you know two of the [TS]

  major vendors and each one has strengths [TS]

  and weaknesses and you know we've chosen [TS]

  a different set of trade-offs this year [TS]

  saal [TS]

  but we have not yet found a perfect [TS]

  solution and we hope in the future that [TS]

  one materializes or that we can tweak [TS]

  things a little bit better but in the [TS]

  meantime we're sorry please buy our [TS]

  shirts now thank you one more thing we [TS]

  are thinking about this is not yet [TS]

  happened but the thing that may happen [TS]

  is that you may get your shirts earlier [TS]

  than you would expect we had said all [TS]

  these things to be like a time-limited [TS]

  campaign that we're going to end about [TS]

  20 days from now we're still going to [TS]

  end it that's still going to happen so [TS]

  buy your shirts because we're going to [TS]

  end this thing right but during the time [TS]

  that it is running there is some [TS]

  potential not a sure thing that your [TS]

  church could ship like shortly after you [TS]

  are them instead of having everybody [TS]

  wait till the end of the 20 days and [TS]

  then all the shirts go out at once and [TS]

  the reason we're thinking about that is [TS]

  it it gives you more time to hopefully [TS]

  get your shirt in time for ww see if [TS]

  you're coming or so you don't have to [TS]

  wait so long or if their issues with it [TS]

  you know anyway that's why we're [TS]

  thinking about that and that may be a [TS]

  thing so if your shirt suddenly arrives [TS]

  and you didn't expect over 20 days don't [TS]

  be surprised so apples clips app came [TS]

  out today and I think we should spend a [TS]

  lot of time talking about that because [TS]

  it's my turn to talk about something [TS]

  that I want to talk about didn't I put [TS]

  that in there way way down below all [TS]

  this cool new Mac Pro stuff well guess [TS]

  what buddy it just got escalated and [TS]

  actually I don't have too much to say if [TS]

  I'm really honest with you so this is [TS]

  only going to take a moment but Clips [TS]

  came out today I played with it very [TS]

  very very briefly and it's pretty cool I [TS]

  like the I don't know what the official [TS]

  term for it is but the transcribe what [TS]

  you're saying as you're saying it [TS]

  feature so you can turn on a like text [TS]

  mode or it's a little speech bubble and [TS]

  as you record speech will or your speech [TS]

  will appear on screen so you know you [TS]

  can hold to record and then as you talk [TS]

  you can make it show the words that [TS]

  you're speaking I just did that as we [TS]

  were recording as I was saying those [TS]

  words and it says honda accord instead [TS]

  of hold while you record so this is [TS]

  already going well I mean you know [TS]

  automated transcription is still a very [TS]

  very long way away from being good [TS]

  reliably like even you know we you know [TS]

  we we can criticize Apple for [TS]

  like not being good at some of these [TS]

  things sometimes but nobody can do this [TS]

  very well yet you know even like the [TS]

  fancy Google algorithms that do YouTube [TS]

  transcription and everything like even [TS]

  they are pretty bad at this so it's [TS]

  going to be a fun little thing finding [TS]

  like you know funny mistranslation to [TS]

  people's videos sometimes and otherwise [TS]

  it's a cool idea it's a cool use of [TS]

  technology but yeah it's going to be [TS]

  pretty imperfect for possibly ever if [TS]

  not a long time it's going to make [TS]

  people enunciate that's what it's going [TS]

  to do I tried that feature as well [TS]

  because I was excited to see if I could [TS]

  do the thing that I talked about when we [TS]

  first talked about clips which is make [TS]

  the words appear over the video with [TS]

  with a cadence with the purpose like say [TS]

  things in a certain way and emphasize [TS]

  certain things to have the words appear [TS]

  with that rhythm and the lag seem to be [TS]

  so big I'm not quite sure why whether [TS]

  it's the you know rendering it on top of [TS]

  the video versus understanding the [TS]

  speech or whatever but the lag was so [TS]

  much worse than for example when you [TS]

  talk to one of Google now or the hell [TS]

  they call it hard work where it shows [TS]

  your words in real time or even Siri [TS]

  these days but Google now was the first [TS]

  one I remember being startled by exactly [TS]

  how fast the words were appearing as I [TS]

  spoke them that there wasn't a delay [TS]

  that it wasn't like let me just think [TS]

  about what you just said and make it [TS]

  appear that it seemed to follow my [TS]

  cadence and clips clips lags I found it [TS]

  difficult even when trying to emphasize [TS]

  in a very exaggerated rhythm to get that [TS]

  rhythm to manifest in the video so oh [TS]

  well the people using real video editors [TS]

  can continue to dominate in the perfect [TS]

  timing of their word appearances and [TS]

  transitions but the meantime yeah it is [TS]

  a cool app and the effects are really [TS]

  neat and it makes it so easy to do [TS]

  something you don't need any expertise [TS]

  in any kind of video editing or [TS]

  production you just need to be able to [TS]

  tap things on the screen and hold your [TS]

  finger on a giant red button and you [TS]

  will make cool videos yeah i like i said [TS]

  i only played with it briefly but really [TS]

  really impressed with what I've seen so [TS]

  far I also really like I think this was [TS]

  covered on connected recently I forget [TS]

  where I heard it but um rather than [TS]

  rather than Apple trying to make their [TS]

  own social network and do something [TS]

  ridiculous like that they're actually [TS]

  just embracing other social networks so [TS]

  this is an app to pipe your video into [TS]

  other [TS]

  faces which i think is really smart did [TS]

  you see her that I'm connected what did [TS]

  we talk about it it's fine damn fine [TS]

  it's like you thought you're on the show [TS]

  with me when I said that same thing but [TS]

  it's fine you can cite connected it's [TS]

  all a blur monette event follow-up Casey [TS]

  yeah you know they did it's it's weird [TS]

  we appropriated it but it was all that I [TS]

  actually heard that from some wasn't [TS]

  connected with what was it bonanza that [TS]

  did the the thing with like the echo and [TS]

  reverb good god no that was that was [TS]

  either the prompter connected all right [TS]

  well anyway someone wrote me to say I [TS]

  totally thought they invented it because [TS]

  they had a cool sound effect follow [TS]

  anyway they've been said they've been [TS]

  set straight oh good so anyhow my very [TS]

  brief playing with this app I definitely [TS]

  like it although it confirmed to some [TS]

  degree that I'm an old man because I it [TS]

  took me a minute to realize how to share [TS]

  a video that I created because it didn't [TS]

  it wasn't obvious to me that in the like [TS]

  creation screen is where you're doing [TS]

  all your mod modifications and edits and [TS]

  whatnot and from what I can tell you [TS]

  have to back out to your like library [TS]

  screen in order to actually share [TS]

  something which I thought was a little [TS]

  peculiar but you know whatever but [TS]

  either way I in my very brief playing [TS]

  with it I I really really like it and I [TS]

  don't know that i'll use it that much [TS]

  but it was really cool the only [TS]

  complaint I have about it which actually [TS]

  is probably for the best is that I kind [TS]

  of wish it wasn't just square so as an [TS]

  example I had recorded a video of myself [TS]

  and Declan very quickly and I wanted to [TS]

  share it as an Instagram story and when [TS]

  I sucked it into Instagram it looked [TS]

  awful and it was like only the center of [TS]

  the of the video and it took me a second [TS]

  to realize oh it's scaling it because [TS]

  the video is square but Instagram [TS]

  stories annoyingly our portrait only and [TS]

  so it's just doing the best I can but [TS]

  that ruined my video and so that was a [TS]

  little frustrating but to be honest it's [TS]

  probably for the best that um that that [TS]

  that it is square because it's kind of [TS]

  generic I also didn't see a way to share [TS]

  to twitter but that again could be user [TS]

  error and i only looked for a moment but [TS]

  all in all I definitely liked it and I [TS]

  think it's pretty good they gotta fix [TS]

  that the answer [TS]

  story thing that's not a minor issue is [TS]

  that like I said the whole point of this [TS]

  is to is to share another networks and [TS]

  you have Instagram stories is does the [TS]

  particular format the app needs to [TS]

  support that in some way you can leave [TS]

  the defaults is whatever they are but [TS]

  someone who wants to use this app [TS]

  primarily as a way to do instrum stories [TS]

  that is not going to do it if they you [TS]

  know it just won't feel it won't feel [TS]

  right to not be able to shoot it in the [TS]

  same aspect ratio so get on that clip [TS]

  steam all right uh let's see what else [TS]

  has happened recently now that was your [TS]

  one you get your one that all cheese dad [TS]

  wow that's how it is hi fine let me go [TS]

  pass out hi kids have fun I'll see them [TS]

  I'll see you next week make a drink I [TS]

  can't it's all the way downstairs [TS]

  there's non Mac Pro stuff will clear the [TS]

  mac pro eventually and come out the [TS]

  other side in 2019 into the sunlight [TS]

  where we'll discuss patents and nvidia [TS]

  drivers and all sorts of other things i [TS]

  think we'll make it okay see you guys [TS]

  next week so this is more mac pro ! the [TS]

  show notes say i'm pretty sure i didn't [TS]

  do that i I you know I didn't do it I [TS]

  think I put the word more in there the [TS]

  first bit is a rumor that I don't know [TS]

  how much you know worth too attached to [TS]

  but it is a rumor and it has been [TS]

  reblogged as we used to say all over the [TS]

  place which does not make it any more [TS]

  true but anyway it's from OS news OS [TS]

  news com and it is a rumor cited to [TS]

  people and sources who know their stuff [TS]

  that kills confidence that definitely [TS]

  means it's true that's that's the way [TS]

  rumors should be cited because that [TS]

  again matches the the reliability this [TS]

  says the macro was in limbo in size [TS]

  Apple the decision to go ahead and [TS]

  develop a modular Mac blurp low [TS]

  replacement seems to have been made only [TS]

  in recent months with development [TS]

  starting only a few weeks ago so we were [TS]

  last year we're talking about all this [TS]

  you know seems like it must have [TS]

  happened at the earliest during the last [TS]

  12 months probably during last six [TS]

  months this one says in recent months [TS]

  the decision was made [TS]

  and development started only a few weeks [TS]

  ago so that is the tightest timeline i [TS]

  have seen even suggested and then it [TS]

  goes on to say why why did Apple do this [TS]

  what why did Apple make them 180 on the [TS]

  mac pro and the reason cited is a more [TS]

  specific version of a thing we've talked [TS]

  about a lot that apple was surprised by [TS]

  the reaction of the macbook pro with [TS]

  touch bar which heard from many [TS]

  different places in a vague sort of [TS]

  Apple thought that everyone was going to [TS]

  love their product and the negative [TS]

  reaction in the press if not in the [TS]

  sales numbers caught them by surprise [TS]

  and so this adds some more detail to [TS]

  that with some more vaguely source [TS]

  rumors after it says after announcement [TS]

  of the new mac pro with the macbook pro [TS]

  with touch bar orders for refurbished [TS]

  old macbook pro supposedly went through [TS]

  the roof and after the initial batch of [TS]

  reviews came out they shot up even [TS]

  higher so that would be a signal that I [TS]

  think Apple would pay attention to hey [TS]

  we've got the new macbook pro a touch [TS]

  bar and the refurbished version of the [TS]

  old one goes up really high now to [TS]

  believe this you have to a believe this [TS]

  is founded on anything and be you have [TS]

  to believe that this is not something [TS]

  that always happens every time a new [TS]

  model is introduced which I'm not [TS]

  entirely sure because maybe every time [TS]

  you introduce two new model is different [TS]

  from the old one people by the [TS]

  refurbished ones really quickly because [TS]

  they want to get their last chance to [TS]

  get the model they know and love but [TS]

  anyway that is a suggestion how that [TS]

  would reflect on the Mac Pro it would be [TS]

  just basically like we thought we knew [TS]

  what pros wanted but we seem to be wrong [TS]

  and they say similar combined with the [TS]

  problems of the LG Display and stuff [TS]

  like that and then finally to add more [TS]

  exciting on source rumors that will make [TS]

  Marco happy if you can bring himself to [TS]

  believe in briefly so far I can't go [TS]

  ahead yeah Apple is said to be exploring [TS]

  additional retina macbook pro models [TS]

  without the touch bar Oh wouldn't you [TS]

  love that so there's something for [TS]

  everybody in this vaguely source rumor [TS]

  but again I you know since since people [TS]

  are talking about it like I do believe [TS]

  that the the new Mac Pro decision end [TS]

  project were very recent I'm not sure [TS]

  her believed a few weeks ago but very [TS]

  recent and I do believe that Apple was [TS]

  surprised by the press react [TS]

  to the macbook pro with touch bars as [TS]

  Apple emphasizes every time you talk to [TS]

  them about it including the transcript [TS]

  that we cited before the new macbook pro [TS]

  would touch bar is incredibly popular [TS]

  and has the most orders ever of any [TS]

  laptop evel's ever produced people love [TS]

  it and it's awesome and all the numbers [TS]

  are great for it but like so many other [TS]

  things Apple said in that transcript and [TS]

  about the Mac Pro and everything they [TS]

  may be true but if you don't update a [TS]

  model for a really long time some of [TS]

  these results fall out of it you know [TS]

  like we're not really selling a lot of [TS]

  mac pro screw people buy them well you [TS]

  haven't updated it in years so that's a [TS]

  self-fulfilling prophecy as we've [TS]

  discussed before and the mac pro pro [TS]

  touch bar is the best-selling model ever [TS]

  well again the macbook pro was a little [TS]

  bit overdue for an update so there's [TS]

  pent-up demand for it and the then you [TS]

  have to map and like the curve like our [TS]

  mac sales increasing overall I think the [TS]

  macbook pro is a successful product for [TS]

  them but again I do believe that Apple [TS]

  was surprised by the negative reaction [TS]

  of some of the press about it they even [TS]

  emphasized in the transcript by the way [TS]

  went back to the well on the battery [TS]

  life of like their metrics say that the [TS]

  battery life for the new macbook pro [TS]

  with touch bar is better than the [TS]

  outgoing ones I believe that too you [TS]

  know what because the outgoing ones are [TS]

  old and the new models are brand-new [TS]

  don't feel that I'm sure they factor [TS]

  that in and I'm sure they can tell the [TS]

  age and normalize for it or whatever but [TS]

  it's difficult to to hang your hat on a [TS]

  lot of the stats because every what's [TS]

  that they say I'm like a hundred percent [TS]

  believe that but I also don't have [TS]

  enough information to to really tell [TS]

  whether it shows the thing you're saying [TS]

  that it shows what they're trying to say [TS]

  it shows this name the new macbook pro [TS]

  with touch bar has better battery life [TS]

  than our outgoing model but you haven't [TS]

  given me enough information to believe [TS]

  that all you've said is the stats say [TS]

  people are getting better a better [TS]

  battery life out of it than the old one [TS]

  you don't tell me whether you've [TS]

  controlled for the age of the machines [TS]

  and you know you don't tell me if it's [TS]

  an average or usage of what the [TS]

  percentiles are what the histogram looks [TS]

  like and also as well as tough as Marcos [TS]

  pointed out many other times you get [TS]

  fantastic battery life out of these new [TS]

  models until you do something intensive [TS]

  and then I tank and I bet if more people [TS]

  don't do in terms of things people [TS]

  aren't playing games with their laptop [TS]

  unplugged because they did their game [TS]

  be over in two and a half hours they're [TS]

  lucky yeah and that would really bring [TS]

  the numbers down but most people just [TS]

  don't play and don't do that so that [TS]

  doesn't show up in the stat so anyway I [TS]

  want to go off on that tangent but [TS]

  that's that's where my men mind went [TS]

  when reading this weird rumor believe it [TS]

  if you want to feel good for a little [TS]

  while yeah i mean this this is not an [TS]

  incredibly reliable source this is not [TS]

  like somebody with a great track record [TS]

  I don't lend a lot of credibility to [TS]

  this basically it lines up with solemn [TS]

  the other thing is that we've heard here [TS]

  and there but not very strongly and [TS]

  honestly for the most part it doesn't [TS]

  really matter I think what matters is [TS]

  Apple is at least you know if we believe [TS]

  what they said and I don't think we have [TS]

  any reason not to they were on a bad [TS]

  path before they have finally recognized [TS]

  that and yes they did recognize it [TS]

  pretty late down that path they did not [TS]

  recognize they were on a bad path in [TS]

  2013 like it took a lot longer than that [TS]

  I would guess they recognize it in 2016 [TS]

  sometime possibly even 2017 but the fact [TS]

  is they are on the path to fixing it [TS]

  something has clearly switched an apple [TS]

  it's like something has clearly flipped [TS]

  over or changed to to make them make [TS]

  this decision because before this it was [TS]

  very clear that they were doing things [TS]

  their way what they thought was right [TS]

  which involved a lot of things that did [TS]

  not serve Pro users basically he [TS]

  involved Singh saying no a lot and [TS]

  taking a long time to do pretty much [TS]

  everything and ignoring a lot of product [TS]

  lines and and and to some degree this is [TS]

  still what they're doing you know the [TS]

  not a lot has changed in in their actual [TS]

  actions here I think it probably will [TS]

  over the next you know two years or so [TS]

  as some of the stuff shakes out because [TS]

  clearly something has changed to to make [TS]

  them do this 180 on the Mac Pro because [TS]

  again like they didn't decide three [TS]

  years ago that this design needed to be [TS]

  replaced and it took them three years [TS]

  plus whatever is going to be nowt to do [TS]

  it no they decided three years ago to [TS]

  stop development Mac Pro and they have [TS]

  been effectively [TS]

  looking for what however many you know [TS]

  whatever time span between then and [TS]

  within the last few months they have [TS]

  thought we don't need it we don't need [TS]

  to develop mac pro anymore this is a [TS]

  dead product line it is no longer [TS]

  necessary for us to do we won't do it [TS]

  well it's not like they weren't [TS]

  developing in the buzz that something [TS]

  came on the transcript like that they [TS]

  further emphasized in the details that [TS]

  they did think about upgrading this [TS]

  component or that component they didn't [TS]

  say that they actually tried it out but [TS]

  how else would they have known that they [TS]

  couldn't support like some one of the [TS]

  the people present or one of the press [TS]

  people present asked them specifically [TS]

  oh so you I think maybe as panzram [TS]

  saying so you were thinking like oh we [TS]

  could increase the GPU frequency by 300 [TS]

  megahertz because that doesn't quite [TS]

  seem worth it so we won't bother [TS]

  updating it and one of the apple evil [TS]

  said yes exactly yet that what you said [TS]

  is what happened like so it they stopped [TS]

  developing it in terms of ever releasing [TS]

  products but it seemed like at least in [TS]

  the beginning they would love to have [TS]

  done a spec bump or component bump but [TS]

  they just couldn't do it because the [TS]

  design they had didn't support what they [TS]

  had decided is basically we're not going [TS]

  to invest in entirely new model so if [TS]

  you can't update this one and the [TS]

  engineer say we can't because they [TS]

  either tested or ran the numbers or [TS]

  whatever we'll look into it again when [TS]

  the next round of GPUs and CPUs comes [TS]

  out but in the meantime no you can't [TS]

  have the budget to make a new one so [TS]

  it's semantics say does that mean [TS]

  stopping support or whatever but it does [TS]

  mean that they they they would have [TS]

  liked to have been able to offer speed [TS]

  bumps in this one because it is [TS]

  embarrassing to offer the same high-end [TS]

  computer for multiple years without not [TS]

  making it any faster well I die I would [TS]

  nitpick a little about that I'm not [TS]

  gonna go too far into it now for KC sake [TS]

  but that's buddy but yeah I think they [TS]

  could have done more in the meantime [TS]

  like they could have updated to see the [TS]

  CPU was thermally fine it was only the [TS]

  GPU thermal balance that was the issue [TS]

  with that design they could have updated [TS]

  the CPU to the same model like the [TS]

  equivalent models in the new families [TS]

  and then they could have updated the [TS]

  GPUs to more mid-range mid temperature [TS]

  models over the years like they didn't [TS]

  have to keep selling three and a half [TS]

  year old parts like they could have [TS]

  updated it by using similar class parts [TS]

  there that they already used in that [TS]

  design it wouldn't have been as [TS]

  competitive but it is even less [TS]

  competitive with three year old parts [TS]

  they were saying they didn't think that [TS]

  trade-off was worth it like the yep we [TS]

  could have the parts that would fit in [TS]

  there weren't better enough to warrant [TS]

  it now arguably after three years if you [TS]

  had merely done that thing that you [TS]

  never thought was worth it a couple of [TS]

  times then you would be farther from [TS]

  where you are or even he wait till the [TS]

  end and done it that's definitely [TS]

  arguable but you know at some point I [TS]

  think it really was you know so far on [TS]

  the back burner that they weren't even [TS]

  entertaining updates to it but what they [TS]

  said in this thing was you know even [TS]

  though we could have made incremental [TS]

  improvements the incremental [TS]

  improvements didn't seem worthwhile I [TS]

  guess I couldn't justify whatever it [TS]

  would take to you know the basically the [TS]

  overhead of ever doing a spec bump and [TS]

  making new models and doing all the [TS]

  stuff or whatever this is taking [TS]

  everything they said at face value who [TS]

  knows but actually what's actually going [TS]

  on and how far along they got with any [TS]

  kind of upgrades this thing and at what [TS]

  point they were nixed whether in the [TS]

  idea phase or after it had been almost [TS]

  ready for sale you never tell because [TS]

  all we see is what they actually release [TS]

  right but anyway so the point I was [TS]

  trying to make is obviously something [TS]

  has changed with with apples philosophy [TS]

  or the whatever they're using to make [TS]

  these decisions of whether to invest in [TS]

  certain product lines whether to update [TS]

  them or not because they were clearly [TS]

  going in one direction for some time and [TS]

  they are still going in that direction [TS]

  for most the product lines I mean you [TS]

  know nothing has changed in their [TS]

  releases yet but it's pretty clear if [TS]

  you look at the release schedule since [TS]

  about 2012 everything slowed down and it [TS]

  seemed like they went from releasing as [TS]

  much as they could in most the product [TS]

  lines to releasing as little as they [TS]

  could get away with and that is [TS]

  worrisome and that's what we've been [TS]

  complaining about for years and so it [TS]

  does it seems like whatever was causing [TS]

  that to be the result maybe a maybe a [TS]

  change has happened there in their [TS]

  thinking or their decision making or [TS]

  whatever else something has changed to [TS]

  make apple flip around on the mac pro [TS]

  and on displays and have this meeting [TS]

  and tell us what they were thinking like [TS]

  I hope that doesn't just apply to [TS]

  placating the media enough for the mac [TS]

  pro [TS]

  thing to say okay well now Apple cares [TS]

  about us again in the end I hope that [TS]

  applies to their entire thinking about [TS]

  all their products I'm tired of Apple [TS]

  seemingly thinking you know what if we [TS]

  can't do something incredibly innovative [TS]

  and awesome we're better off just doing [TS]

  nothing you know I think that's the [TS]

  wrong approach I think they should they [TS]

  should be saying yes to things that are [TS]

  simple updates to their products like [TS]

  it's one thing to spread yourself too [TS]

  thin with new stuff you know new [TS]

  initiatives new you know new heart [TS]

  entire product lines things like that [TS]

  that you could make an argument and we [TS]

  have that they should you know be really [TS]

  careful with that because it's hard it's [TS]

  it's a huge risk of spread themselves [TS]

  too thin but it is not hard it shouldn't [TS]

  you know it if it's hard for them to [TS]

  like update the Mac Mini with the same [TS]

  processor line but the new version of it [TS]

  like if that's hard they've set that up [TS]

  wrong like they are a huge company with [TS]

  tons and tons of money and tons of [TS]

  engineering resources they should be [TS]

  able to do what I described last week as [TS]

  like boring updates like what if there's [TS]

  a new processor put it in and start [TS]

  selling it to all the products that [TS]

  could use it like that there is no [TS]

  reason why they need to do things like [TS]

  what like what the Mac Mini is right now [TS]

  right which is like sitting around with [TS]

  ancient parts being neglected the last [TS]

  he made it worse than it was before [TS]

  there's nothing stopping them from doing [TS]

  a new mac mini except high high up [TS]

  somewhere they have decided that that is [TS]

  not worth investing any resources into [TS]

  at all and I think that's a mistake and [TS]

  maybe we'll see something that turn [TS]

  around again probably not especially [TS]

  like the mac mini has always been a very [TS]

  diluted product but I don't think that's [TS]

  that's not a good excuse like if Apple [TS]

  really wants like to fulfill what they [TS]

  say they are and make the best products [TS]

  for people that they can and only make [TS]

  great stuff like they sit that's what [TS]

  they say they do that isn't always true [TS]

  but that is what they say to do and I [TS]

  believe that's what they want to do and [TS]

  that is what that is what they want to [TS]

  be then they have to set up their [TS]

  product line in a way that allows them [TS]

  and end their management structure and [TS]

  their priorities they have to set this [TS]

  up in a way that allows them to not [TS]

  leave things in complete neglect for [TS]

  years because they aren't the most [TS]

  profitable product lines in the world [TS]

  like you know they sell a lot of all [TS]

  these things all these products like and [TS]

  we mentioned last week like they like [TS]

  the one percent or whatever of mac sales [TS]

  asst is like still like 200,000 a year [TS]

  and like as many as the B interview x5 [TS]

  like it is worth them if they're going [TS]

  to have a product line at all I think [TS]

  it's worth it's worth them keeping it [TS]

  minimally updated and what that means is [TS]

  not every four years you make it worse [TS]

  what that means is you keep it updated [TS]

  every time you can and you don't have to [TS]

  do a whole new case design you know that [TS]

  like that's that I feel like you know [TS]

  but like last week discussing about how [TS]

  like Apple needs like the audacity and [TS]

  confidence to release boring products [TS]

  sometimes it seems like it seemed like [TS]

  they would rather you know that they [TS]

  would rather do nothing and neglect [TS]

  something for years then release [TS]

  something that isn't that exciting and I [TS]

  just think that's the wrong decision I [TS]

  think that they need to start thinking [TS]

  either way of like that might be true [TS]

  for certain products I don't know [TS]

  certain like you know mass consumer [TS]

  fashion type of products maybe the [TS]

  iphone although that's kind of its own [TS]

  schedule anyway you know not true the [TS]

  watch they just gave that a speed bump [TS]

  yeah what's your name on the outside [TS]

  better stuff on the inside that's your [TS]

  thicker but really I feel like they need [TS]

  to bring that same philosophy to all [TS]

  their products of just like you know [TS]

  what when when there's like if the mac [TS]

  mini can't be updated at least every two [TS]

  years you know the stuff goes into it [TS]

  like every year if the mac mini can't [TS]

  consider at least every two years to [TS]

  whatever's current first form factor [TS]

  then it was badly designed and it should [TS]

  be redesigned at me neither it is the [TS]

  problem with the map really you know if [TS]

  the mac pro can't be updated easily then [TS]

  that they then they did a horrible job [TS]

  designing it and so any of their [TS]

  products that that you can say that [TS]

  about like I feel like they they need to [TS]

  and maybe this is what it to it like [TS]

  they need to get like some humility in [TS]

  the sense that like their designs need [TS]

  to be a little more humble and they have [TS]

  to be okay releasing you know like a [TS]

  slightly more utilitarian version of [TS]

  some of these products not all of them [TS]

  but some of them and then they also then [TS]

  have to have the confidence as I said [TS]

  last week they have a confidence that [TS]

  they you know what it's okay [TS]

  to release a boring Mac Pro update and a [TS]

  boring mac mini update that's okay no [TS]

  one's gonna say Apple kit enemy anymore [TS]

  anybody's ass because the mac mini got [TS]

  updated again like that I don't think [TS]

  that's true at all it's Tyra because [TS]

  because the thing he's talking about [TS]

  speed bumps we have a name for them [TS]

  because they were so common so so common [TS]

  for a long time for years and years and [TS]

  years this was just a thing that [TS]

  happened just like model years of cars [TS]

  they were introduced a model and then [TS]

  there would be speed bumps and that [TS]

  eventually there would be a new model [TS]

  that's fancier in some way that's how [TS]

  Apple products work for a long time and [TS]

  during that time every time there was a [TS]

  speed bump nobody says oh no Apple can't [TS]

  innovate anymore because we understood [TS]

  with speed bumps were the fancy new one [TS]

  is in here it's just a speed bump for [TS]

  the other one and people go oh this is [TS]

  boring announcement it's just a speed [TS]

  bump but we had a word for it because it [TS]

  was a thing that happened routinely [TS]

  little did we know that you may not you [TS]

  may like I don't want speed bumps I want [TS]

  a fancy new one every time you know [TS]

  what's worse than speed bumps no speed [TS]

  bumps yeah exactly just nothing new at [TS]

  all so I think there is no PR damage of [TS]

  speed bumps it's just that at some point [TS]

  Apple decided that speed bumps weren't a [TS]

  thing they wanted to do and I have my [TS]

  own completely unverified anonymous [TS]

  sources who are not the ATP tipster or [TS]

  they could be for all we know because [TS]

  it's just email man I don't know where [TS]

  the exit stuff comes from who conveyed [TS]

  this again completely on source [TS]

  information that the high-end imac was [TS]

  the thing that Apple isn't playing for a [TS]

  while so there are hopes for that to [TS]

  have good internal who talk a bit more [TS]

  about that with more on source rumors [TS]

  later this is the unsourced rumor show [TS]

  but the decision about the new Mac Pro [TS]

  and display were made fairly recently [TS]

  and the summary is neither of these [TS]

  products meaning the high-end imac and [TS]

  the new Mac Pro are a good financial roi [TS]

  but there is now recognition to the [TS]

  senior VP and CEO level that's important [TS]

  for the company to make them and that's [TS]

  what it boils down to like that I can [TS]

  totally imagine all these products not [TS]

  being a good return on investment [TS]

  doesn't mean that they're they make [TS]

  losses but you know good ROI means i put [TS]

  x em on in and I want to get x times [TS]

  some large number amount out and a [TS]

  better ROI me like [TS]

  yeah it doesn't seem like I make enough [TS]

  money on speed bump Mac minis to even [TS]

  bother doing that at all what if we just [TS]

  don't do it how did the sales look it's [TS]

  like up sales are flat it's like great [TS]

  we just saved some money I just [TS]

  increased the ROI and the mac mini by [TS]

  not speed bumping it and they did they [TS]

  did increase the ROI in the mac mini and [TS]

  I think they can kind of get away with [TS]

  that in the mac mini but a reasonable [TS]

  amount but like one Mac Pro's what if we [TS]

  just don't ever update the mac pro [TS]

  because engineering says it would cost a [TS]

  lot of money in require a redesign what [TS]

  are the sales look like they go down a [TS]

  little bit but they're about the same [TS]

  great we just increased the ROI on the [TS]

  Mac Pro and you know the what this [TS]

  bullion source rumor now conveys is that [TS]

  even though it's not a good ROI which is [TS]

  a point I've been emphasizing since 2013 [TS]

  it's important for the company to make [TS]

  these products anyway an apple is [TS]

  totally on that page now and again [TS]

  another thing you can pick up from the [TS]

  transcript is everything Marco said [TS]

  about frequent updates that was in all [TS]

  the summary articles like that apple [TS]

  says they want to make a new Mac Pro [TS]

  that can have frequent updates it is [TS]

  further emphasizing the transcript like [TS]

  further in detail emphasizes like they [TS]

  want to make a Mac Pro that they can [TS]

  make the parts inside of it better on a [TS]

  regular basis they don't commit to doing [TS]

  it on a particular schedule but they [TS]

  emphasize this is the thing we did wrong [TS]

  and we're going to fix it by doing it [TS]

  right we want a machine that without [TS]

  redesigning the machine we can regularly [TS]

  and steadily and easily and cheaply do [TS]

  this things that we used to think are [TS]

  boring which are called speed bumps and [TS]

  so you know that's why we're all so [TS]

  happy about this is because they didn't [TS]

  just say we're going to make a new pro [TS]

  mac pro and trust us you really like it [TS]

  just wait they said specific things [TS]

  about and the specific things they said [TS]

  and emphasized are exactly what we want [TS]

  so yay Apple let's now fast-forward for [TS]

  two years we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  Squarespace go to squarespace com enter [TS]

  offer code ATP at checkout to get ten [TS]

  percent off make your next move with a [TS]

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  and there or you can go full-blown and [TS]

  customize all sorts of stuff about it [TS]

  you can drag stuff around everything is [TS]

  visual what you see is what you get with [TS]

  a live preview of everything you're [TS]

  doing it's incredibly easy and [TS]

  incredibly powerful and Squarespace has [TS]

  tons of building capabilities not only [TS]

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  Squarespace has entire store [TS]

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  if someone else has asked you if you're [TS]

  like the nerd in the in the community [TS]

  and someone someone has asked you to [TS]

  make a site for them we've all been [TS]

  there make it on Squarespace and then [TS]

  just hand it to them and say here I did [TS]

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  ATP at checkout and that will get you [TS]

  ten percent off and it will tell them [TS]

  that you came from here thank you very [TS]

  much to Squarespace for sponsoring our [TS]

  show Squarespace make your next move oh [TS]

  goodness do you have any other thoughts [TS]

  about this particular rumor I wouldn't [TS]

  put too much into it you know and the [TS]

  theta the other parts a bit about how [TS]

  like you know like Apple is said to be [TS]

  making a non-touch bar 15-inch MacBook [TS]

  Pro option yeah that does just trolling [TS]

  Marco I I honestly first of all you know [TS]

  I want to be clear I don't hate the [TS]

  touch bar that much I would just given [TS]

  the choice to get it or not get it right [TS]

  now I chose not get it and they're added [TS]

  like that's due to other factors also [TS]

  like like I wanted something smaller and [TS]

  the the 13-inch that comes in both touch [TS]

  bar on non touch bar like the non-touch [TS]

  bar gets better battery life by a lot [TS]

  and I really and better life is very [TS]

  important to me right now so like you [TS]

  know [TS]

  it's obviously like you know other [TS]

  factors have go into this decision for [TS]

  everybody you know there's cost [TS]

  considerations for a lot of people in it [TS]

  so like I don't think there's actually [TS]

  that much demand to make 15-inch MacBook [TS]

  Pros without the touch bar and I also [TS]

  would be incredibly surprised if Apple [TS]

  did that for user satisfaction reasons [TS]

  now what they might do you know there's [TS]

  also a lot of complaints about the [TS]

  pricing of the new macbook pros because [TS]

  it is higher so I could see them may be [TS]

  offering you know in in the next update [TS]

  to the macbook pro generation whenever [TS]

  that comes I don't know if it's I don't [TS]

  know when the chips are coming out maybe [TS]

  this fall or next spring who knows but [TS]

  whenever that happens it would not [TS]

  surprise me if they made an entry level [TS]

  15 inch model that was maybe you know [TS]

  1999 and that one had no discrete GPU [TS]

  and no touch bar to hit that price point [TS]

  the 15 inch escape yeah basically you [TS]

  know it cuz in the past they you know [TS]

  they've done that with the GPU selection [TS]

  which I've talked about before where is [TS]

  like in the past like the retina [TS]

  generation everything the and even the [TS]

  one right before that they had like the [TS]

  base model which was about two thousand [TS]

  bucks had only the Intel integrated GPU [TS]

  and you had to spend a few hundred more [TS]

  to get one with a little bit more stuff [TS]

  in an end to discrete GPU and it would [TS]

  not surprise me at all to see them to [TS]

  the same thing here she just give it [TS]

  another one that is 1999 so people will [TS]

  stop complaining about the price and has [TS]

  a few things cut out of it and one of [TS]

  them would probably be this discrete GPU [TS]

  and one of them might be the touch bar [TS]

  and that would be totally fine like but [TS]

  that wouldn't be because quote everyone [TS]

  hates the touch bar it would be because [TS]

  they want to hit a price point yeah they [TS]

  did also mention the transcripts people [TS]

  have some questions about ports they [TS]

  didn't say they were going to even [TS]

  entertain this idea but it was mentioned [TS]

  as an idea that exists just like the mac [TS]

  mini as a product that exists in the [TS]

  lineup of having a macbook pro like with [TS]

  legacy ports like that the only things [TS]

  on the side of it wouldn't be the [TS]

  Thunder ball three USB a few things that [TS]

  was there was brought up as a question [TS]

  and Apple didn't immediately shut the [TS]

  door and say we are never doing that and [TS]

  that's you know in the Apple it's like [TS]

  wow they're entertaining the idea of [TS]

  possibly having a macbook pro with [TS]

  different ports on the side of it may be [TS]

  an SD card slot I don't would hold your [TS]

  breath for it but you know that's what [TS]

  Apple does like they said they make a [TS]

  product we do the best we can see what [TS]

  people think of it what their behavior [TS]

  indicates and then for the next one you [TS]

  know they said for the next one we're [TS]

  going to do better and we'll take what [TS]

  we've learned and you know and Marco [TS]

  suggestion sounds totally plausible both [TS]

  because it makes sense from a business [TS]

  perspective and also because if that's [TS]

  what people are telling them based on [TS]

  like you know this rumor of buying [TS]

  refurbished ones or people buying the [TS]

  escape or whatever they'll do that to [TS]

  fill a market need and the same by the [TS]

  same token like this is something that [TS]

  didn't get too much discussion in the [TS]

  Articles that was mentioned a few times [TS]

  apple said and we've been hearing about [TS]

  for a while that they went they have [TS]

  been going out to Pro users reaching out [TS]

  to just regular people like hey you use [TS]

  our products in a pro capacity tell us [TS]

  about it for a long time now leading up [TS]

  to this Mac Pro announcement and they do [TS]

  this stuff like that all the time so [TS]

  just just knowing that it's like that's [TS]

  they're gonna make a new mac what they [TS]

  do that all the time like they say even [TS]

  when you just go to the apple store buy [TS]

  a new mac get new iphone sometimes they [TS]

  send your random survey about it [TS]

  whatever but they were going to people [TS]

  and saying tell us how you use our pro [TS]

  hardware what do you like about it what [TS]

  do you not like about it what things are [TS]

  important to you what things are not [TS]

  important to you to try to gauge you [TS]

  know whether they should make a new mac [TS]

  pro and the decision they came to is yes [TS]

  they should and probably like what do [TS]

  you think about the new macbook pros and [TS]

  what you know if we made a new one what [TS]

  would you want to see in it and stuff [TS]

  like that so they're they're doing their [TS]

  job they're doing what they're supposed [TS]

  to be doing and hopefully we'll see this [TS]

  feedback loop closed with the next round [TS]

  of macbook pros and I mean I don't want [TS]

  to call like if the next round of macros [TS]

  has the 15 inch escape and has an SD [TS]

  card slot and has better batteries that [TS]

  they supposedly couldn't fit in this one [TS]

  for some reason I forget that this is [TS]

  the model or it was another one that the [TS]

  rumor was about anyway if they come out [TS]

  with that it doesn't mean that they made [TS]

  a terrible mistake and have fixed it [TS]

  just means they're making their products [TS]

  better over time that's what they always [TS]

  do but for the mac pro I was thinking [TS]

  that this Mac Pro that comes out that in [TS]

  theory i will buy [TS]

  Yeah right Ellen yeah is elevated is [TS]

  worthy of being elevated to the [TS]

  worthy of being elevated to the [TS]

  holder of the coveted title of apology [TS]

  Mac Pro right alongside the apology [TS]

  mouse people don't remember the apology [TS]

  mouse is the mouse apple released was [TS]

  much fanfare after subjecting the world [TS]

  to the completely circular puck based [TS]

  mouse on the original iMac and they [TS]

  apologized for that by making a mess [TS]

  that was not completely circular and [TS]

  therefore easier to a line and it was [TS]

  under everybody seat at a macworld expo [TS]

  keynote and i got one because i was [TS]

  there and the mouse wasn't undo seat it [TS]

  was like a little card and you go to the [TS]

  back of the room and gives him on a cart [TS]

  and they give you an apology mouse and i [TS]

  still have it and it's awesome and i [TS]

  would love an apology mac pro and it [TS]

  looks like i'm going to get one well [TS]

  you're going to have one released are [TS]

  you going to buy one area luckily get [TS]

  one unlike if it's not going to be a [TS]

  card under my seat at ww sees as i get a [TS]

  free one but yeah oh and i'm on the [TS]

  topic of other were i'm skipping a bunch [TS]

  of the mac pro a more mac pro topic for [TS]

  your case but what i mean though that's [TS]

  too bad no one thing i want to talk [TS]

  about is this from we want to hit every [TS]

  single person who was in that meeting [TS]

  he's always like five journalists this [TS]

  is from lancelin off at Mashable he I [TS]

  quoted this because I didn't have the [TS]

  transcript of time but let's give him [TS]

  credit he be reported and I pulled it [TS]

  out when I asked if Apple might consider [TS]

  a touchscreen Mac Shilla shook his head [TS]

  and said no he told me it's simply not a [TS]

  big request from Mac Pro customers we're [TS]

  talking to them and the things they're [TS]

  most interested in this doesn't even [TS]

  register he had you can see the full [TS]

  quotes in the transcript if you're [TS]

  interested but it was basically he just [TS]

  like cut them off and like said no no [TS]

  touchscreen Mac this is not something [TS]

  customers interests and have it know [TS]

  what customers are interested is because [TS]

  they're talking to them right this is a [TS]

  great example of I feel like if I was in [TS]

  that meeting I mean I don't know I'm [TS]

  it's hard to say what you were doing [TS]

  your in these meetings but in a relaxed [TS]

  environment where I didn't feel pressure [TS]

  to be well behaved I would say but come [TS]

  on guys you know you can't just ask [TS]

  customers what they want like new yeah [TS]

  you have to do that but customers don't [TS]

  always know what they want until you [TS]

  showed them no one would know customer [TS]

  would have ever requested the iphone but [TS]

  guess what when you made it there like [TS]

  yes that if you ask them what they [TS]

  wanted they would have been like a [TS]

  fancier version of whatever nokia [TS]

  smartphone they had right now right I [TS]

  don't I think Matt custom Mac Pro [TS]

  customers aren't requesting a touch [TS]

  screaming but if it turns out that the [TS]

  surface to do is a good idea that has [TS]

  legs by the time your customers are [TS]

  requesting it it's way too late because [TS]

  of because of the the things you would [TS]

  have to do to your OS or you know to [TS]

  your to App Store economy depending on [TS]

  whether you're trying to make a mac into [TS]

  that or make an iOS device into that [TS]

  will take you a long time so Apple [TS]

  should not be asking its customers like [TS]

  you know not be deciding just because [TS]

  its customers don't want one now that [TS]

  it's not a good idea clearly Apple [TS]

  thinks it's still not a good idea and [TS]

  I'm sure that experimented with and I'm [TS]

  sure they use the service studio prop [TS]

  they even even a dumped on the surface [TS]

  studios like a drawing experience like [TS]

  they basically said the ipad pro has a [TS]

  better drawing experience i'm assuming [TS]

  you mean more responsive and less [TS]

  parallax because you did this you know [TS]

  like which is true right it totally true [TS]

  but I you know they may be right this is [TS]

  not that the surface to do idea it [TS]

  doesn't have legs in the design [TS]

  community but the reason I would cite [TS]

  for that is not that the first iteration [TS]

  of this has flaws versus some existing [TS]

  tech because that's just like I'm you [TS]

  know a PR whatever like the first [TS]

  version of everything is wonky right you [TS]

  know the first Mac web was Ram starve [TS]

  the first iphone like didn't even shoot [TS]

  video right you know so you can't cite [TS]

  that right that doesn't mean and you [TS]

  also can't site of our customers aren't [TS]

  asking this of course they're not asking [TS]

  for they're never going to ask for the [TS]

  visionary next big thing is they don't [TS]

  know they want it yet but if the server [TS]

  studio starts getting penetration and [TS]

  starts being used by more people [TS]

  eventually they will be saying hey I why [TS]

  don't you have something like this and [TS]

  maybe Apple will say take this humongous [TS]

  iPad pro and try to find pearl apps for [TS]

  it or something so anyway that bothered [TS]

  me a little bit because I don't like to [TS]

  say no and then you're not thinking [TS]

  about it is fine but to cite those [TS]

  reasons like those are those are not [TS]

  those are not reasons that should be [TS]

  convincing to you internally if their [TS]

  reasons you want to pair it back to the [TS]

  press to give explanations that's fine [TS]

  but I really hope internally like there [TS]

  does that fear I get especially want to [TS]

  hear people who are good at talking to [TS]

  the press at Apple the fear I get that [TS]

  they believe their own hype that the [TS]

  reasons they give externally for things [TS]

  are also the reasons they use internally [TS]

  to justify their decisions which I [TS]

  sincerely hope is not the case because [TS]

  so many of the reasons are our bad [TS]

  reasons you know like they're there [TS]

  like their their Apple 101 bad reasons [TS]

  like the whole history of Apple shows [TS]

  this is not how you should be making [TS]

  decisions because every success you had [TS]

  you know defied these or even just like [TS]

  plain old you know ed catmull creativity [TS]

  and success hides problem reasons what [TS]

  evers like it's fine to tell them to [TS]

  other people but i really hope you don't [TS]

  believe like because this first server [TS]

  studio has technical flaws that that's [TS]

  why it's a terrible idea if you're going [TS]

  to say we've tried the idea internally [TS]

  and we found out that it's terrible [TS]

  which they have said in the past that at [TS]

  least I give more credence to because it [TS]

  shows you are seriously pursuing the [TS]

  idea but anyway that bothered me I still [TS]

  think the server studio is an idea that [TS]

  has some potential some artists also [TS]

  agree I just hope apple doesn't get [TS]

  caught flat-footed on this one because [TS]

  again it's not like oh well so it [TS]

  becomes accessible Apple can make one [TS]

  they have a serious software and [TS]

  platform thing to resolve to ever ship [TS]

  anything like that they have to decide [TS]

  whether it's a mac or an iPad and either [TS]

  decision they make their a bunch of [TS]

  other software and ecosystem things they [TS]

  have to do to make that work yeah I mean [TS]

  like everyone I've known who has bought [TS]

  a surface to do or used one and the [TS]

  granite this is not a large group of [TS]

  people but you know it's like people on [TS]

  Twitter and stuff the responses are all [TS]

  are pretty consistent which is this is [TS]

  really cool there's really something to [TS]

  this but windows sucks like we we all [TS]

  know that I really like this is no [TS]

  surprise to anybody listen to this show [TS]

  and I like no likelihood but you know [TS]

  there is clearly like you know there's [TS]

  something there's something here and I [TS]

  think if Apple chose to do something [TS]

  with that they might be able do a really [TS]

  good job with it I mean there would be [TS]

  certain limitations there's you know [TS]

  every computer input method has weird [TS]

  limitations to it the ipad you know has [TS]

  problems with text entry unless you do [TS]

  keyboards but that's a weird hack you [TS]

  know the computers have problems with [TS]

  you know direct interaction and maybe [TS]

  leash in like at least there's all sort [TS]

  of like everything you do is get it is [TS]

  going to be imperfect but i think you [TS]

  know the the kind of the model for [TS]

  modern computing and devices and in like [TS]

  the last decade has really just been [TS]

  like well you know what we're going to [TS]

  embrace that we can't get this perfect [TS]

  and we're going to make things anyway [TS]

  the best we can that take advantage of [TS]

  what they are and [TS]

  leave what they aren't to other devices [TS]

  so like you know because if you didn't [TS]

  if you weren't willing to do things that [TS]

  way tablets wouldn't exist because [TS]

  tablets are this this kind of weird [TS]

  hybrid that is good at certain things [TS]

  computers are good at terrible other [TS]

  things are good at and but but they can [TS]

  do things the computer can't you know [TS]

  it's like it when apple says like oh [TS]

  this this we've tried this and it [TS]

  doesn't work it can't be done there's [TS]

  lots of problems or whatever you could [TS]

  have said the same thing about tablets [TS]

  in 2009 but they made the ipad anyway [TS]

  they found a way they found like like a [TS]

  slot for it to fit in in the way people [TS]

  use things they there there were things [TS]

  that it was really good at and that made [TS]

  it worth doing despite all the you know [TS]

  downsides of tablets and those downsides [TS]

  are still there today but it doesn't [TS]

  matter because the things that good at [TS]

  it's really good at for certain people [TS]

  and so any kind of like touch or pen Mac [TS]

  hybrid might be the same thing it might [TS]

  be like you know this is kind of weird [TS]

  for these reasons over here but it's [TS]

  really good at these things and I think [TS]

  the surface studios you know slight [TS]

  success among among some artisan stuff [TS]

  shows that to be the case that like you [TS]

  know the drawing on Windows is weird you [TS]

  know using a pen and touched on this [TS]

  giant you know like drafting table form [TS]

  factor pc running a PCOS is weird and [TS]

  does have downsides but it also has [TS]

  really cool upsides so there I think [TS]

  there might be something there and and I [TS]

  think it would be it would be [TS]

  unfortunate if there was something there [TS]

  and Apple wasn't able to or wasn't [TS]

  willing to find it and deliver it [TS]

  because they either are making bad [TS]

  assumptions or that they aren't willing [TS]

  to tackle the you know the software [TS]

  integration costs that would result in [TS]

  doing this kind of like Mac iOS touch [TS]

  kind of hybrid OS and because those [TS]

  aren't small problems you know those are [TS]

  big problems but but I do think it would [TS]

  be kind of a shame if there was really a [TS]

  product here to be had that could be [TS]

  really useful to some people and that we [TS]

  weren't ever going to get it because of [TS]

  these other issues you know that being [TS]

  said [TS]

  one of the other things I'm concerned [TS]

  about is it does kind of seem like at an [TS]

  increasing pace Apple is being surprised [TS]

  by customer reactions to what they do [TS]

  and that's a little concerning like we [TS]

  keep like you know first like when you [TS]

  know with with the the 2016 MacBook Pros [TS]

  those came out and were you know really [TS]

  met with a lot of ambivalence from [TS]

  people head and a lot of criticism and a [TS]

  lot of anger that they weren't certain [TS]

  other things and an apple was you know [TS]

  allegedly they were like shocked by this [TS]

  that they were like we thought this was [TS]

  and you know say the touch bar think we [TS]

  thought we thought this was amazing like [TS]

  it seems like it's actually not being [TS]

  well-received like what how did this [TS]

  possibly happen why is it so different [TS]

  from what we expected and similar with [TS]

  the mac pro you know it turns out that [TS]

  if you kill your pro hardware line [TS]

  slowly over years with you know neglect [TS]

  after releasing and already polarizing [TS]

  product then it turns out people get mad [TS]

  who like the old thing or one of the [TS]

  current things stay current and they [TS]

  seemed greatly surprised by that as well [TS]

  that reminds me of something else that i [TS]

  forgot to address there on that exact [TS]

  topic of hey you know what happens if [TS]

  you don't up you're at you're you're [TS]

  Mike proprio it's not one of the things [TS]

  they cited in this very strange lead-up [TS]

  that I think a few of the journalists [TS]

  over there noted is very strange lead-up [TS]

  to this announcement of this meeting was [TS]

  let me tell you how few people use the [TS]

  mac pro and let me tell you how many [TS]

  pros use other products how many pros [TS]

  use MacBook Pros uh i think i flubbed [TS]

  that let me tell you how many people do [TS]

  not use the mac pro and instead write [TS]

  use imax or macbook pros right that was [TS]

  their whole intro if you read the [TS]

  transcript it was all about that right [TS]

  it's like and this is a thing where [TS]

  they're going to announce guess what [TS]

  we're making a new mac pro if you had [TS]

  just heard the intro it's like this is [TS]

  leading up to them telling us why they [TS]

  don't need to have a micro anymore [TS]

  because they're saying look at all these [TS]

  pros and we're defining probes is [TS]

  someone who uses a pro app at least once [TS]

  a week or someone who uses it every few [TS]

  weeks and they does all you know the [TS]

  number one piece of hardware used by our [TS]

  prose is guess what the macbook pro the [TS]

  number two piece of hardware you buy our [TS]

  pros guess what the imac right and the [TS]

  distant third is this mac pro such a [TS]

  small percentage all that a hundred [TS]

  percent believe [TS]

  but if you don't update the mac pro for [TS]

  three years of course they're gonna flee [TS]

  elsewhere of course they're gonna start [TS]

  buying I maxamed but what choice do they [TS]

  have what choice like and again I [TS]

  totally understand from PR perspective [TS]

  this is this is the line this is the [TS]

  move I just sincerely hope that [TS]

  internally that they they have there are [TS]

  clear-eyed about all this and you can't [TS]

  tell they're not going to tell you what [TS]

  but they talk about in their boardrooms [TS]

  what do they put up in their slides and [TS]

  I really believe they are clear I've is [TS]

  it remember they had like a leak of the [TS]

  like slideshow many years ago samsung [TS]

  thing about it like like we don't have [TS]

  bigger phones and customers want them [TS]

  yeah right we'd we do not have what [TS]

  customers want we need to make a bigger [TS]

  phone yeah yeah that's that's how you [TS]

  talk to yourself internally in a healthy [TS]

  way and I'm sure they do but like it's [TS]

  when you only get the external like the [TS]

  you know the party line of like here's [TS]

  what we have to tell you it makes me [TS]

  worried sometimes because it's just so [TS]

  hard like they'll they'll never they'll [TS]

  never tell you what they tell themselves [TS]

  internally and you just worry that their [TS]

  believe in their own height because they [TS]

  are so consistent and disciplined with [TS]

  their message to the outside world and [TS]

  because they choose to offer up these [TS]

  things like this that are just like [TS]

  instantly refutable like oh people who [TS]

  are moving to I'm accent and macbook [TS]

  pros like well duh like like why even [TS]

  tell us that aren't we all smart here [TS]

  don't of course they're moving to like [TS]

  what else are they gonna do I guess I [TS]

  could go to Windows is the other choice [TS]

  right which is also happening by the way [TS]

  and you're not going to tell us about [TS]

  that so that anyway sorry to derail [TS]

  there yeah anyway so all that is to say [TS]

  that it it it certainly has seemed in in [TS]

  recent times that Apple seems to be [TS]

  increasingly surprised that people don't [TS]

  universally loved what they brew what [TS]

  they put out there and that that [TS]

  concerns me and I hope in in whatever [TS]

  has kind of flipped around or changed [TS]

  that has caused them to decide to do the [TS]

  Mac Pro again and to start you know [TS]

  really serving pros well hopefully again [TS]

  whatever whatever has changed to cause [TS]

  that I hope it has also fixed whatever [TS]

  was causing them to put out products [TS]

  with with a very different internal [TS]

  impression of what was going to happen [TS]

  or how they're going to be received then [TS]

  what public actually delivery because [TS]

  that is worrisome [TS]

  like Apple should not be that caught off [TS]

  guard by their reactions to their [TS]

  products you know Apple is really good [TS]

  most of the time at product design they [TS]

  have a huge history doing it very well [TS]

  the track record is very very good they [TS]

  have incredible talent within the [TS]

  company you know and like you know if [TS]

  they're going to do something like the [TS]

  Apple TV remote that is incredibly bad [TS]

  just terrible good thing they update the [TS]

  Apple TV every year so that will have to [TS]

  deal with that bad remote for a long [TS]

  time right yeah like to get something [TS]

  like that out into the world there are [TS]

  people inside of the company who are [TS]

  smart enough and clearly and [TS]

  clear-headed enough to look at that and [TS]

  say you know what this is kind of a bad [TS]

  idea and here's why but for some reason [TS]

  they weren't listen to so I just I hope [TS]

  something that whatever has changed that [TS]

  caused this Mac Pro thing is also going [TS]

  to let them be a little bit more honest [TS]

  about their own product reactions [TS]

  internally before they decide to release [TS]

  things or go ahead with things so that [TS]

  they are less surprised when the public [TS]

  doesn't love every weird beautiful [TS]

  useless thing they release chatroom [TS]

  points out a quick real-time follow-up [TS]

  that federighi said and the things the [TS]

  Mac Pro sales didn't fall off that's [TS]

  what I said before when I said oh you [TS]

  releasing Mac Pro and trash can and then [TS]

  sales are kind of level it's another one [TS]

  of those facts that could be a hundred [TS]

  percent true but it doesn't tell you [TS]

  what the initial value was so if the if [TS]

  the trashcan Mac Pro was only appealing [TS]

  to a certain very small subset of people [TS]

  and those people were trapped into but [TS]

  repeatedly buying it year after year [TS]

  even though it didn't get updated [TS]

  without result in flat sales and because [TS]

  it's such a small percentage it would [TS]

  result in look how many people who we [TS]

  classify as pros according to the [TS]

  wheeled met weird metric by our much [TS]

  more popular machines well of course [TS]

  they do those are your most popular [TS]

  machines and you know like anyway stats [TS]

  that are true but do not necessarily [TS]

  prove the thing you're saying that they [TS]

  prove it's it's a frustration yeah we go [TS]

  ahead ukz now it's some it's curious [TS]

  tread reason through what Apple is [TS]

  thinking with regard to their products [TS]

  and how they're received because you [TS]

  know anyone I've ever spoken to us who [TS]

  has spent any amount of time as an apple [TS]

  employee has all [TS]

  he's vehemently said that their biggest [TS]

  critics are themselves and I completely [TS]

  agree with you guys that from the [TS]

  outside it seems clear that they offered [TS]

  up this you know touch bar macbook pro [TS]

  on a platter and said look at this [TS]

  magnificent piece of electronics you [TS]

  should be blessed enough to be able to [TS]

  give us a whole pile of money for one of [TS]

  these and then it did seem from the [TS]

  outside like they were surprised that [TS]

  people were like yeah we're good but I [TS]

  don't know on the inside it's it's it's [TS]

  a bold claim for any of us to make if if [TS]

  we think that on the inside they were [TS]

  really taken aback by it because as you [TS]

  said John you know the messaging from [TS]

  the out to the outside will always be oh [TS]

  no this is exactly what we planned but [TS]

  the inside I bet that they're being [TS]

  pretty darn honest with themselves and [TS]

  maybe the expectation was different but [TS]

  I don't think it took them very long to [TS]

  realize that who this didn't go the way [TS]

  we thought it did and now they're [TS]

  turning around now I will concede that [TS]

  it certainly seems like the mac pro [TS]

  something just went totally wrong there [TS]

  because I concede and agree that it took [TS]

  way too long way way way too long for [TS]

  them to make any statement about what's [TS]

  coming and and the consistent reports [TS]

  you neyo be that rumors that it's been [TS]

  in the last six weeks to six months that [TS]

  they've really gotten in on a new mac [TS]

  pro like that's kind of alarming but at [TS]

  least they're turning the ship around no [TS]

  it's just it seems weird it seems weird [TS]

  to meet it for us to assume that that [TS]

  there aren't some very vocal critics [TS]

  within Apple of Apple Oh totally are [TS]

  leavin marco was saying that they are [TS]

  it's just a question of like they don't [TS]

  win they don't win the argument because [TS]

  we can tell who wins by what they [TS]

  actually ship and yeah and the and like [TS]

  i said i think that the presentation [TS]

  about the iphone before they had a big [TS]

  iphone with a slide i was trying to [TS]

  quote was like you know customers want [TS]

  what we don't have or something similar [TS]

  phrasing like they were just totally [TS]

  brutal about we don't have big phones [TS]

  customers want them we should make one [TS]

  and they did and guess what it sold [TS]

  really really well so like I believe [TS]

  internally that everything we're saying [TS]

  has been said internally by multiple [TS]

  people and it's just a question of who [TS]

  wins the argument and my general [TS]

  frustration is because [TS]

  they have executives who are so good at [TS]

  talking to the public so good at talking [TS]

  to the public in terms of they'll never [TS]

  get off message and also like they're [TS]

  willing to throw out things that don't [TS]

  actually support what they're saying but [TS]

  sound like they do at first at first [TS]

  glance and I find it frustrating to [TS]

  never be able to get to the no seriously [TS]

  just talk to me like a human being like [TS]

  I guess you'd have to be off the record [TS]

  on the record they're never going to do [TS]

  that but because because in the end it [TS]

  doesn't matter like who cares about the [TS]

  internal politics so the products are [TS]

  what they are when you ask me questions [TS]

  about it i'm not going to trash my own [TS]

  product and i'm not going to tell you [TS]

  about future ones they could be working [TS]

  on a surface studio style computer they [TS]

  could have had it in the works for three [TS]

  years now and they're trying to get it [TS]

  right there never tell you that they're [TS]

  you know they're just going to say right [TS]

  to the point where they release it Steve [TS]

  Jobs style that's not a good idea we [TS]

  don't think it's a good idea until they [TS]

  come out and say we finally cracked it [TS]

  here it is and now it's a great idea [TS]

  because we did it right that's just the [TS]

  way they work and it can just be [TS]

  frustrating from the outside but but [TS]

  yeah when when the when the stuff that's [TS]

  coming out that tells you that tells you [TS]

  who won arguments and what decisions [TS]

  were made and that we can judge them [TS]

  based on and so yeah it's also it's hard [TS]

  to like you know if if you are like you [TS]

  know an engineer working on you know [TS]

  photos app or something like that are [TS]

  you really gonna be willing to take the [TS]

  the political hit internally to [TS]

  criticize a wrote that was designed by [TS]

  jony ive or richard how earth-like is [TS]

  that really going to be a wise career [TS]

  move you know like the company is set up [TS]

  in a way you know it's a big company [TS]

  there's there's rank there's politics [TS]

  internally there's you know every big [TS]

  company has this stuff so like not [TS]

  everybody can get their voice heard if [TS]

  they have a criticism about a product [TS]

  that's that that is being considered for [TS]

  being designed like it's up to there [TS]

  have to be people who it has to be set [TS]

  up in a way that like high up people can [TS]

  criticize and that and the people who [TS]

  are at the high up levels need to [TS]

  criticize when necessary and this is you [TS]

  know like we talked before about like [TS]

  this is one of one of Steve Jobs [TS]

  greatest strengths and and one of the [TS]

  reasons why he had such a great [TS]

  relationship with Johnny ive and with [TS]

  the engineering is like there was a [TS]

  great balance [TS]

  of editing and criticism and honesty [TS]

  internally that resulted in mostly only [TS]

  great stuff coming out like the hit rate [TS]

  was pretty good there and and when [TS]

  things did come out there weren't a lot [TS]

  of controversial or polarizing [TS]

  attributes of new products as there are [TS]

  now like now it seems like almost [TS]

  everything that comes out there's you [TS]

  know great advances in some areas but [TS]

  almost all those advances come at some [TS]

  kind of massively polarizing cost and I [TS]

  feel like that's happening more recently [TS]

  than it used to and maybe that's because [TS]

  the the collaboration or the editing up [TS]

  top is not happening it with the same [TS]

  health and same balance that it used to [TS]

  we are sponsored this week by audible [TS]

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  you're looking for with audible get a [TS]

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  slash ATP thank you to audible for [TS]

  sponsoring our show I wanted to go back [TS]

  just briefly I thought that the [TS]

  statistic that John it brief that had [TS]

  talked about earlier very quickly was [TS]

  just fascinating and this is [TS]

  voting from Gruber apples research shows [TS]

  that fifteen percent of all mac users [TS]

  use at least one pro app frequently [TS]

  these are apps for things like music [TS]

  creation video editing graphic design [TS]

  and software development basically apps [TS]

  at our performance intensive and [TS]

  additional fifteen percent of all mac [TS]

  users use pro apps less frequently but [TS]

  at least a few times per month per month [TS]

  that thirty percent of the overall Mac [TS]

  user base is what Apple considers the [TS]

  pro market I don't really have a lot to [TS]

  extrapolate from this but I just thought [TS]

  it was very very interesting that [TS]

  according to Apple fifteen percent of [TS]

  users uses them uses a pro app [TS]

  frequently whatever that definition is [TS]

  be that daily or multiple times a week [TS]

  or what have you and then another [TS]

  fifteen that uses them at least a few [TS]

  times a month and I just thought that [TS]

  was a really fascinating statistic that [TS]

  I never expected to come out of that [TS]

  meeting yeah that's that's a lot higher [TS]

  than I would have guessed for is you [TS]

  know especially like the thirty percent [TS]

  total that's kind of amazing well they [TS]

  didn't clearly communicate that because [TS]

  if you read the transcript and it was [TS]

  much debate about this but many people [TS]

  interpreting but now having read the [TS]

  transcript it is no more clear to me the [TS]

  question is first one is clear fifteen [TS]

  percent use use what they classify as a [TS]

  pro app at least once a week totally [TS]

  clear the second one is the problem [TS]

  because they say this group of users [TS]

  uses a pro app like once every few weeks [TS]

  or whatever was some longer period and [TS]

  the question is does that second group [TS]

  of users include the first Gruber [TS]

  clearly thinks it does because whether [TS]

  Apple said was thirty percent use it you [TS]

  know in the longer period and 15 in the [TS]

  shorter but I can't tell up the 15 is [TS]

  part of the 30 like other exclusive [TS]

  groups are they inclusive and so you [TS]

  can't tell if the total is thirty [TS]

  percent or 45 Apple could have [TS]

  communicated that better like perhaps [TS]

  than text or in some other fashion or it [TS]

  could have been clarified so depending [TS]

  on how you interpret what they said in [TS]

  the transcript and I think it's a big [TS]

  difference are are forty-five percent of [TS]

  mac users classified as occasional or [TS]

  frequent Pro users or is it thirty [TS]

  percent and 15 of them are once a week [TS]

  either way these are very nice high [TS]

  numbers higher than I would have guessed [TS]

  but Apple pics what it means to be a pro [TS]

  user they use a pro app which they don't [TS]

  tell us what it is that it's that oh you [TS]

  know like one of those apps use to make [TS]

  things right well I think it's I think [TS]

  it's pretty clear that what they mean by [TS]

  pro app is anything Apple makes it ends [TS]

  in pro so logic pro Final Cut Pro also [TS]

  probably like I would say adobe creative [TS]

  suite apps make sense there and i think [TS]

  it was also very clear they meant xcode [TS]

  and that includes a lot of people yeah I [TS]

  would agree with all of those but there [TS]

  how many other things are in that [TS]

  categories they didn't give us an [TS]

  exhaustive like you're just going by [TS]

  their metrics and I bet they're picking [TS]

  something pretty broad for example there [TS]

  could be just one application that is [TS]

  frequently used that they happen to [TS]

  classify as pro that pulls up the [TS]

  average everything else these are you [TS]

  know we have no visibility duties the [TS]

  Apple has all the information so I'm not [TS]

  surprised that number it sounds about [TS]

  what I would think they would because of [TS]

  their very broad definition of pro [TS]

  everything you defined like I don't [TS]

  think that's brought but I'm gonna try [TS]

  to think of like one other applications [TS]

  they could throw in there there would be [TS]

  like oh if you if you ever launched [TS]

  terminal you count as a pro app you [TS]

  could argue for that but there's [TS]

  millions of people who are launching [TS]

  terminal just so they can use their mac [TS]

  desis a Shinto something to do something [TS]

  and they're not using their makina [TS]

  Procope asset it's it's a you know it's [TS]

  a glass TTYL is we used to say back in [TS]

  the day and that is not a pro use [TS]

  because you can do that from the macbook [TS]

  adorable and it works fine but if you [TS]

  classify terminal as a pro app suddenly [TS]

  that brings up your numbers play pro is [TS]

  a state of mind oh my goodness alright [TS]

  what else do we have to talk about with [TS]

  regard to the mac pro well we can move [TS]

  on to the imac pro because there was [TS]

  another completely on source rumor and [TS]

  this is a place where we're dumping them [TS]

  all on the show right this is from all [TS]

  of them on this episode yet all of them [TS]

  job this one also got reblogged [TS]

  everywhere i'm surprised like people [TS]

  reblogging i thought that the mac [TS]

  blogosphere had gotten over that like [TS]

  that there'll be one completely [TS]

  unsourced rumor and some random thing in [TS]

  it everybody else will grab it and [TS]

  you'll see it appear on every site and [TS]

  sometimes you'll have to like pour over [TS]

  the site to try to figure out they just [TS]

  signing that one thing i read on that [TS]

  totally unsourced vlog and sometimes [TS]

  they don't link to it and sometimes they [TS]

  don't source it until the very end and [TS]

  you trying to figure out and you see it [TS]

  in so many places like well it must be [TS]

  true i seen every mac side i've seen [TS]

  it's been telling me about this these [TS]

  the specs of this new imac pro like you [TS]

  trace it all back and it's just this one [TS]

  completely on [TS]

  source thing anyway this completely [TS]

  unsourced thing is giving us supposed [TS]

  specs for the imac pro and this one says [TS]

  it will have a intel III 1285 v6 i have [TS]

  no idea what the hell that is it's [TS]

  nothing yeah i think is ram upgrade over [TS]

  32 or 64 ECC memory faster SSDs and up [TS]

  to two terabytes of the SSD size and AMD [TS]

  graphics with support for VR and pro [TS]

  apps whatever the hell that means [TS]

  Thunderbolt 3 USBC gentoo with tada a [TS]

  brand new keyboard for Casey oh right [TS]

  something for everybody alright so [TS]

  basically just to summarize quickly here [TS]

  Xeon e3 it might as well not be as easy [TS]

  on the Xeon e3 is only barely different [TS]

  from the consumer chips the imac already [TS]

  uses the only thing that we get you is [TS]

  support for ECC ram that's pretty good [TS]

  though that's so that that that is [TS]

  something but and so like that i feel [TS]

  like you know if if the imac pro which [TS]

  you know i just assumed whenever we say [TS]

  I'm night pro its and thinker quotes if [TS]

  if the imac pro is something to handle [TS]

  like you know heavy horsepower then [TS]

  that's not gonna do it you know that [TS]

  that's that's what the old imac already [TS]

  has had if it's something to add check [TS]

  marks to make pro stop complaining about [TS]

  certain things it helps a little bit in [TS]

  that area in this is in the sense that [TS]

  it enables ECC ram but that's about it [TS]

  and thunderbolt three and USBC like i'm [TS]

  assuming it has a lot of pci express [TS]

  lanes does i don't know i don't know i [TS]

  don't think it has any more get you have [TS]

  to go to the e5 series like they they're [TS]

  i'm pretty sure has the same pci express [TS]

  configuration as the regular i7 high-end [TS]

  chips because it really is just an i7 [TS]

  with like ECC compatibility basically [TS]

  there's there's there's really nothing [TS]

  else to it that's that's literally all [TS]

  it is it is a way you know the III line [TS]

  it is mostly it mostly exists to make [TS]

  cheap server options because it you know [TS]

  servers almost always want to ECC and [TS]

  you know server needs almost always use [TS]

  that like in data centers and stuff and [TS]

  it's a way to basically bring the [TS]

  wonderful economy and power of the [TS]

  consumer i7 line [TS]

  into cheap 1u rackmount servers so it's [TS]

  there's not really a huge benefit and [TS]

  that's why I like remember like about [TS]

  two years ago they started selling not [TS]

  they not Apple but like the pc enter [TS]

  start selling xeon laptops and that was [TS]

  the same kind of thing it was it was [TS]

  based it was like using this III line [TS]

  where it's like yeah that's that's not [TS]

  really anything more than what we had [TS]

  before it's not really anything more [TS]

  than the consumer line so that's same [TS]

  thing here like it would enable ECC but [TS]

  that would be the only advantage that it [TS]

  would have over what we already have any [TS]

  imac that being said it would also not [TS]

  require any additional thermal head room [TS]

  because it isn't a bigger chip it isn't [TS]

  it doesn't have more cores it doesn't [TS]

  have a higher tdv like you know it would [TS]

  be very easy for apple to configure an [TS]

  imac with an e3 so if the idea of the [TS]

  imac pro is to do as little work as [TS]

  possible and check off a few more boxes [TS]

  for pros while changing almost nothing [TS]

  about the imac then okay maybe but [TS]

  that's probably not like that wouldn't [TS]

  be a very compelling product for almost [TS]

  anybody so i hope that isn't what [TS]

  they're doing i hope they're doing more [TS]

  than that well if it's the only one that [TS]

  comes with Thunderbolt three in USBC [TS]

  then something that becomes a lot more [TS]

  attractive because it's not just people [TS]

  who are looking for pro we're buying it [TS]

  it's like anybody who wants basically a [TS]

  modern 105 k imac would buy it's like [TS]

  well if that's the only one that has all [TS]

  the new ports on it I'll get it and if [TS]

  they want that fancy new keyboard right [TS]

  other other ancillary rumors attach this [TS]

  and I keep seeing this and I haven't [TS]

  traced this back to the origin to the [TS]

  fantastical origin but the 8k display [TS]

  apples working on an 8k display for the [TS]

  next generation of macros 8k display has [TS]

  been floating around for a long time is [TS]

  that thing something that anyone is it [TS]

  asking for will tell just shipped one [TS]

  you see like Dell just shipped 145 grand [TS]

  I know I know all right so yeah right [TS]

  but my question is like you like it like [TS]

  it does the size math work out to be [TS]

  something reasonable like like how big [TS]

  would it have to be to keep the current [TS]

  DPI yeah like I think would have to be [TS]

  like 40 inches would it would have to be [TS]

  pretty big I i think you know we we [TS]

  learned from past monitor things and [TS]

  some some like current day ones where [TS]

  you know like you have like that one LG [TS]

  like super wide 35 inch or whatever [TS]

  yep so like we've seen like kind of you [TS]

  know rough idea of what these you know [TS]

  what monitor sizes are and what works [TS]

  and what doesn't we can we can probably [TS]

  agree actually I'm curious John because [TS]

  you're probably the contrarian here what [TS]

  do you think is the largest you know [TS]

  inch diagonal measurement that that a [TS]

  single monitor could reasonably be for [TS]

  practical desktop computer use where you [TS]

  wouldn't have to sit so far back from it [TS]

  that the resolution would be wasted so [TS]

  my answer to that question would [TS]

  probably be maybe like 32 inches maybe [TS]

  at most 35 what do you think I would go [TS]

  up to 42 because I know people who use [TS]

  televisions as their monitors obviously [TS]

  the resolution is horrendous right but [TS]

  they're using like actual televisions as [TS]

  their monitors because they can get to [TS]

  me really big sizes and why because if [TS]

  you have any kind of vision impairment [TS]

  you can't buy a computer monitor that [TS]

  makes things as big as you want that [TS]

  doesn't make it look like you're looking [TS]

  through a tiny little portal so they [TS]

  will get a 42 inch television and putted [TS]

  it like a resolution that we would run a [TS]

  23 inch display at and keep it like [TS]

  normal computer distance from them and [TS]

  just let them see things better so I [TS]

  think it's actually surprising [TS]

  surprisingly big but but that wouldn't [TS]

  be a use case for 8k though ak is [TS]

  talking about like right now you but you [TS]

  just asked about the inch sizes right [TS]

  now in case specifically the reason the [TS]

  reason I'm skeptical the 8k thing is not [TS]

  because I think 8k is not a thing right [TS]

  but just when I envision Apple making a [TS]

  monitor for its Mac Pro I envisioned 8k [TS]

  as a thing that only people who are [TS]

  working like at ILM yet so they can look [TS]

  at their 8k video you know composites or [TS]

  whatever like that you know people who [TS]

  are working with source material shot an [TS]

  8k but traditionally Apple has left that [TS]

  market to like the super duper high end [TS]

  color calibrated weird monitors with [TS]

  hoods over them and like like that type [TS]

  of thing Apple has never sold one of [TS]

  those they've always sold a really good [TS]

  monitor for regular people it has great [TS]

  color calibration but always during the [TS]

  entire history of Apple if you go into a [TS]

  very fancy place that even just does [TS]

  stuff with Photoshop or with special [TS]

  effects or whatever you will see one of [TS]

  those really weird i don't think any [TS]

  seam makes a bunch of them or you know [TS]

  one of those really weird monitors just [TS]

  for this specific industry and right now [TS]

  I feel like 8k is in that category the [TS]

  only people who knew [TS]

  k our people who are shooting 8k footage [TS]

  who want to see it displayed in 8k so [TS]

  you want it k monitor but like I'm not [TS]

  going to be sad if Apple makes one I [TS]

  think it'll be awesome but that seems [TS]

  such like such a narrow thing that Apple [TS]

  is going to go from we're not making a [TS]

  matter at all to guess what i'm making [TS]

  an 8k one and to get back to where you [TS]

  were saying Marco if they do make an 8k [TS]

  one I hope it's not the only one because [TS]

  i really don't i personally don't [TS]

  actually want a 40 inch monitor and I [TS]

  think 8k at 27 or 30 inches is overkill [TS]

  for my needs so if they only make an 8k [TS]

  monitor it's going to be super expensive [TS]

  and be oh god I probably actually buy it [TS]

  too would not like oh you would it's not [TS]

  it's not what I want out of modern I'm [TS]

  thinking they're going to make a 5k [TS]

  display because I think 5k is in the [TS]

  spot where Apple usually makes monitors [TS]

  and they leave a k2 Dell and NEC and [TS]

  viewsonic and whoever else is making [TS]

  these monitors for for professional [TS]

  things that you can already buy today [TS]

  but we'll see the 8k rumor won't die [TS]

  anything else on the mac pro kids [TS]

  there's always said you why do you even [TS]

  keep asking that you know if you just [TS]

  stopped asking that and just moved on [TS]

  you would like catch us off guard no [TS]

  because that there's more unfortunately [TS]

  perkasie two related stories that were [TS]

  in the notes last week or what least one [TS]

  of them was and we didn't get to it that [TS]

  may or may not be related the more [TS]

  recent one is Nvidia's announcement that [TS]

  their new graphics cards have mac [TS]

  support and you're like what what do you [TS]

  mean by that there are no max with card [TS]

  slots what are you talking about how can [TS]

  you have mac support but it's like oh [TS]

  yeah all those cheese graters yeah you [TS]

  can put these things in there so Nvidia [TS]

  is offering drivers for its Pascal based [TS]

  GPUs that's their latest architecture of [TS]

  GPUs and this is the the titan nvidia [TS]

  titan XP as their product they are [TS]

  launching but the drivers they're making [TS]

  will work with any pascal based GPU [TS]

  apparently on the mac and why would they [TS]

  do that I mean people will choose [TS]

  graders can buy them and you know or [TS]

  people with hackintosh is right we want [TS]

  to run mac OS and do all this stuff and [TS]

  Apple didn't ship drivers for this [TS]

  because they don't ship any machines [TS]

  with Pascal GP using them as far [TS]

  I'm aware like it do they have a Pascal [TS]

  base 11 of the portables I forget maybe [TS]

  the chat room people tell me but anyway [TS]

  I don't think Apple ships nvidia [TS]

  anything right now apple an apple an [TS]

  nvidia had seemed to have some kind of [TS]

  major fallout and they I think they ship [TS]

  ati stuff or AMD stuff now everywhere [TS]

  which is kind of a problem like you know [TS]

  we we keep hearing I don't want to see [TS]

  what you're going to say if you're gross [TS]

  sales but we keep hearing from people [TS]

  who know this stuff that like really [TS]

  NVIDIA has has kicked AMD's butt so hard [TS]

  and GPUs and things like GPUs like those [TS]

  like parallel computing cards recently [TS]

  that Apple really really apparently if [TS]

  they want to be competitive in these [TS]

  high-end GPU areas they should really [TS]

  consider going back to Nvidia and it [TS]

  seems like for for whatever reason [TS]

  possibly some kind of weird like [TS]

  business disagreement or history they [TS]

  have been unwilling to do that so far [TS]

  but maybe they should reconsider now [TS]

  they're try to address pros better so [TS]

  that balance of power between AMD and [TS]

  NVIDIA it has swung around it's not like [TS]

  Intel and AMD where Intel just dominated [TS]

  it has come back from the bruising of [TS]

  the athlon age as we discussed in a past [TS]

  show has just dominated for a long time [TS]

  and like rising is just like the the [TS]

  turn around possibly now but AMD Nvidia [TS]

  have traded the lead many times and [TS]

  specifically for apples purposes not [TS]

  talking about the highest the high end [TS]

  which Apple has been ignoring anyway [TS]

  very often the ati or AMD part actually [TS]

  is the right choice for specific things [TS]

  but if your concern is i want the best [TS]

  performance in a given thermal envelope [TS]

  or whatever and that thermal envelope [TS]

  isn't really really low nvidia is [TS]

  currently the leader that could change [TS]

  with the next generation of GPUs but [TS]

  either way Apple has nothing in any of [TS]

  its product and hasn't for many many [TS]

  years that could be considered a [TS]

  high-end GPU none just they don't they [TS]

  don't sell them they didn't even when [TS]

  the 2013 trashcan Mac Pro was brand new [TS]

  the day it was released today was [TS]

  announced for that matter you could buy [TS]

  faster cards and put the new pcs single [TS]

  cards double cards everything I'm pretty [TS]

  sure like the last time they had [TS]

  competitive GPUs was when [TS]

  you and at the time i bought the 2008 [TS]

  mac pro and you could for two hundred [TS]

  dollars get an nvidia 8800 GT and at the [TS]

  time that was like an upper mid-range [TS]

  card and we're like oh that's Brett's a [TS]

  nice option thanks yeah it was it was a [TS]

  decent car long time ago yeah and always [TS]

  there has been there have been [TS]

  third-party people like buying pc cards [TS]

  and flashing the firmware and stuff and [TS]

  it was just a matter of like does apple [TS]

  support this GPU architecture because if [TS]

  they supported it sometimes the drivers [TS]

  would work with the higher end cards [TS]

  that were just overclocked or just had [TS]

  more vram and stuff like that and so [TS]

  this announcement by nvidia has a lot of [TS]

  people thinking maybe maybe the new pack [TS]

  that apple just admitted they were [TS]

  creating like three days ago maybe it's [TS]

  going to use pascal base GPUs and and [TS]

  you know what that would be awesome and [TS]

  i hope it does because they're really [TS]

  good right but i can't draw any kind of [TS]

  same connecting line between nvidia [TS]

  supporting max with its current crop of [TS]

  lines and anything that Apple's going to [TS]

  do by its as-yet-unknown to anybody [TS]

  outside Apple Mac Pro project so I can't [TS]

  connect those lines but I really [TS]

  sincerely do hope that an option on the [TS]

  new Mac Pro is the highest of high end [TS]

  video cards from Nvidia because that [TS]

  would be awesome and they kept talking [TS]

  about how people want a single really [TS]

  fast GPU and this is sing a really fast [TS]

  EPO for all we know Apple could have [TS]

  made a deal with NVIDIA for them to [TS]

  develop these drivers because like [TS]

  that's that's the only line i can draw [TS]

  is like why the heck is envy doing this [TS]

  are they so desperate for money that [TS]

  they want the seven people who have hack [TS]

  and dodges to buy this card and put it [TS]

  in right like what why because making [TS]

  drivers for making mac drivers for a [TS]

  video card is non-trivial it's it's a [TS]

  difficult thing to do working with [TS]

  apples you know driver stack so [TS]

  different from windows and for what [TS]

  benefit so maybe there was some kind of [TS]

  agreement or money changing hands to [TS]

  have nvidia do this sometime in the [TS]

  past-- and they're just like well while [TS]

  we wait to be in the new mac pro will [TS]

  sell this to people or whatever i don't [TS]

  know but anyway i'm excited about this [TS]

  people who have cheese graters who are [TS]

  more that are more modern than mine that [TS]

  actually run this i believe i can't run [TS]

  this in mind because i think it requires [TS]

  more pieces you can even run sierra you [TS]

  know yeah I can hear it anyway this [TS]

  seems like an X [TS]

  announcement for a very small group of [TS]

  mech nerds I'm excited by the prospect [TS]

  of a very super high-end GPU and if [TS]

  you're dramatic pro but for now I can't [TS]

  I can't connect the dots on this to say [TS]

  that this means anything about what what [TS]

  GPU the next Mac Pro is going to have [TS]

  and related to this is the older story [TS]

  which is about apple moving away from [TS]

  imagination the power be our power VR [TS]

  GPUs that it uses in all of its iOS [TS]

  products for many many years speaking of [TS]

  of GPUs Apple's GPUs in its iOS devices [TS]

  have been awesome they have been [TS]

  amazingly good they always show that [TS]

  graph that shows look how crappier GPUs [TS]

  were in the beginning of the of the iOS [TS]

  devices before we even called it iOS and [TS]

  look at this curve every time we come up [TS]

  with the new product the GP was like [TS]

  super duper faster it's like it's not [TS]

  linear it's like going up like a hockey [TS]

  stick if we are kicking butt on GPUs and [TS]

  look what we can do with these games and [TS]

  you know and it's true they have been [TS]

  doing a really good job with the GPUs [TS]

  and for I think for the entire life of [TS]

  iOS devices they have been using power [TS]

  vr base GPUs with intellectual property [TS]

  license from imagination technology and [TS]

  imagination technology put out this [TS]

  press release is very sad angry press [TS]

  release that's like Apple tells us [TS]

  they're not going to be using our [TS]

  intellectual property anymore and Apple [TS]

  by the way is like more than fifty [TS]

  percent of our revenue but we think [TS]

  basically it's impossible to make a [TS]

  modern GPU without infringing our [TS]

  intellectual property which by the way [TS]

  is another reason the patent system is [TS]

  ridiculous I like little biz Apple no is [TS]

  literally impossible to make a modern [TS]

  GPU without our intellectual property [TS]

  right so we own these ideas forevermore [TS]

  or like whatever the ridiculous term [TS]

  limit is on patents but Joanne patents [TS]

  are to foster innovation without patents [TS]

  nobody would innovate no one would ever [TS]

  be able to make a GP without these ideas [TS]

  that are not obvious to everybody who is [TS]

  what is it obvious to people verse the [TS]

  well versed in the art anyway I hate [TS]

  patents but but apple says there they [TS]

  are not licensing this technology which [TS]

  means that Apple is going to make GPUs [TS]

  for its iOS devices presumably [TS]

  or when you know whatever they do [TS]

  they're not going to make GPUs or [TS]

  they're going to make GPUs license from [TS]

  somebody else or they're going to make [TS]

  their own Apple has as Phil Schiller [TS]

  points out or one of the people points [TS]

  out one of the best chip design groups [TS]

  in the world arguably the best going [TS]

  based on how good their system-on-chips [TS]

  are for their devices and like have you [TS]

  seen like have you seen liked hit the [TS]

  benchmarks of the new samsung s 80 River [TS]

  it's like it matches the performance of [TS]

  like the iphone 6s like two generations [TS]

  behind and yeah their apple is doing [TS]

  amazing like they're making these chips [TS]

  themselves yes its arm its arm based [TS]

  technology and they have that license [TS]

  from arm to use the instruction set and [TS]

  all that other stuff or whatever and yes [TS]

  their licensing GPU stuff from power boo [TS]

  yarbrough but Apple make no mistake [TS]

  Apple is designing these things ever [TS]

  since the the confusingly named swift [TS]

  CPU actually it was the first one that [TS]

  they really like did themselves from [TS]

  scratch as the iphone 5 right yeah [TS]

  they're they're doing amazing so I have [TS]

  zero doubt that if Apple wanted to they [TS]

  have the in-house expertise to make an [TS]

  amazing GPU for the next iPhone whether [TS]

  or not infringed on patents who the hell [TS]

  knows what the lawyers fight it out if [TS]

  the camels going to win that one because [TS]

  they have more money and that's how our [TS]

  legal system works like you know what if [TS]

  you imagination we're going to buy your [TS]

  company done and done we win and that's [TS]

  and that's their worst case scenario so [TS]

  Apple will not lose this or they could [TS]

  be licensing someone else's think but [TS]

  combining the new Mac Pro rumor which [TS]

  now it affects everything but that is [TS]

  discussed at surrounding the Mac it's [TS]

  like does this mean Apple is going to [TS]

  make their own GPUs for the new Mac Pro [TS]

  and while I think that would be amazing [TS]

  and fantastical i'm going to say Noah [TS]

  yeah that makes no sense because because [TS]

  Apple already doesn't like the ROI on [TS]

  the Mac Pro reportedly and and in fact [TS]

  they seem to not like it so much they [TS]

  didn't even make one they just barely [TS]

  decided to make one the if Apple is [TS]

  making a GPU architecture they're making [TS]

  it for iOS devices and I have a hard [TS]

  time believing that the GPU design could [TS]

  even be adapted from iOS devices to [TS]

  something like the new mac pro so I'm [TS]

  thinking the new Mac Pro will not have a [TS]

  GPU of Apple's own design [TS]

  I'm hoping it will have a super I an [TS]

  NVIDIA GPU or at least the the best [TS]

  whatever the best architecture is that [TS]

  AMD has Africa what this is called is it [TS]

  Maxwell and I remember maybe that's [TS]

  another end video on and I don't think [TS]

  the the imagination rumor is connected [TS]

  to the mac pro either it does make me [TS]

  kind of excited about what the next [TS]

  iPhone you know and the GPUs are going [TS]

  to look like they're because like [TS]

  presumably Apple is ditching imagination [TS]

  for some benefit and I don't think the [TS]

  benefit is the relatively piddling [TS]

  amount of money they pay it's like only [TS]

  so only 75 million dollars a year which [TS]

  is a lot of money to imagination [TS]

  technologies apparently is like you know [TS]

  the Apple is their biggest customer it's [TS]

  like more than half of their revenue but [TS]

  Apple sneezes in 75 million dollars [TS]

  comes out and falls on the carpet like I [TS]

  thought that's how much they got so much [TS]

  they they spend for snacks at the the [TS]

  defunct Apple car project right yeah so [TS]

  I think they wanted to do it for the [TS]

  same reason they do or they want I want [TS]

  to control the blah blah blah technology [TS]

  blah blah blah and I bet they have some [TS]

  good ideas about you know that that chip [TS]

  team is like we have some good ideas [TS]

  about how to do a GPU in ways that are [TS]

  are there our own our own ideas why [TS]

  don't we do it why do we need this [TS]

  imagination technology stuff anymore we [TS]

  have all the expertise in-house to make [TS]

  an amazing GPU ourselves we don't need [TS]

  them anymore it will free us up to do [TS]

  what we want now there's a couple of [TS]

  good articles about this is saying all [TS]

  right so Apple could do this but there [TS]

  is an entire software ecosystem built up [TS]

  around the power of the architecture [TS]

  that take advantage of features of the [TS]

  power of ER architecture that are tuned [TS]

  to work well on that architecture in [TS]

  terms of you know for games you can get [TS]

  really low level type of stuff like [TS]

  things that perform particularly well on [TS]

  a particular chip with a particular set [TS]

  of execution units in a particular [TS]

  arrangement with particular latencies [TS]

  that's how game development works a lot [TS]

  of the time especially as you get up [TS]

  towards the high end if Apple makes a [TS]

  new GPU that has very different [TS]

  characteristics or that doesn't support [TS]

  any of these weird power vr specific [TS]

  extensions that are there are things [TS]

  that game developers can use or could [TS]

  have used in the past that may be a [TS]

  problem for iOS game compatibility [TS]

  like metal may help with this because [TS]

  presumably metal provides I mean it's [TS]

  it's less of an abstraction layer than [TS]

  OpenGL but it's more than like writing [TS]

  against the you know the bare metal of [TS]

  the GPU so there could be troubled [TS]

  waters at for iOS game performance but I [TS]

  have faith that Apple knows about all [TS]

  these issues and will have software [TS]

  based solutions and because their new [TS]

  GPU will be so much faster than the old [TS]

  ones games tuned for the power via our [TS]

  performance specifics they'll get by on [TS]

  the know in just because it's it's so [TS]

  much faster so this this development [TS]

  this sort of corporate divorce divorce [TS]

  makes me excited to see what what the [TS]

  next GPU will be like and I assume it's [TS]

  like the not this year's one but next [TS]

  year's like might as well find out this [TS]

  soon as the iphone 8 or whatever they're [TS]

  going to call it comes out and someone [TS]

  checks it out and see it sees if it has [TS]

  a power via our base to GPU in there but [TS]

  i'm kind of excited about that but i [TS]

  don't think it's related to the mac pro [TS]

  yeah i agree completely there's no way [TS]

  that is connected to the mac pro the [TS]

  timing is a coincidence yeah there's no [TS]

  way i also think you know with with the [TS]

  with the idea of like you know changing [TS]

  it and being a problem for games i don't [TS]

  think it's that big of a deal because [TS]

  there aren't that many people writing [TS]

  high-performance low-level game engines [TS]

  at that you know at that level on for [TS]

  iOS or for anything really you know [TS]

  there's not a lot of original low-level [TS]

  game engines being written at any given [TS]

  time you know most games that come at [TS]

  are using someone else's engine so it's [TS]

  it's a relatively small number of like [TS]

  engine providers and authors that will [TS]

  need to adapt to any changes like this [TS]

  anyway and the fact is enough I phones [TS]

  are sold that if the new iPhones from [TS]

  this point forward have this [TS]

  architecture every mobile game developer [TS]

  is going to demand support for that and [TS]

  so the engine makers are going to do it [TS]

  so it it's really not an issue like [TS]

  that's that's not going to be a problem [TS]

  at all yeah it's still it's still better [TS]

  at same thing on game columns like [TS]

  consoles these days we're like game [TS]

  consoles will feel free to rev their [TS]

  hardware and then [TS]

  console game developers just deal with [TS]

  it like when the PSP s4 pro comes out or [TS]

  the Scorpio like this lik well the [TS]

  hardware changed in a way that we have [TS]

  never optimized for but then again also [TS]

  the hardware is faster as this new GPU [TS]

  will faster as well and they figure it [TS]

  out because that's how you make as how [TS]

  you make the money how you sell the [TS]

  games thanks for our three sponsors this [TS]

  week Squarespace audible and fracture we [TS]

  will see you next week now the show is [TS]

  over they didn't even mean to begin cuz [TS]

  it was accidental oh it was accidental [TS]

  John didn't do any research Marco and [TS]

  Casey wouldn't let him cuz it was [TS]

  accidental it was accidental and you can [TS]

  find the show notes at ATP FM and if [TS]

  you're into twitter you can follow them [TS]

  at cas Eyl ISS so that's Casey list ma [TS]

  RTO a RM can t marco arment as I r kc [TS]

  USA Syracuse [TS]

  ah so once i went back and listened to [TS]

  the tape last time it certainly does [TS]

  appear that i'm going to win the bet in [TS]

  all likelihood because I never I never [TS]

  bet on it being unmodified I just said [TS]

  if the 2013 Mac Pro is still for sale on [TS]

  january first that's gonna make someone [TS]

  did provide a link that i actually [TS]

  removed from follow up that was like see [TS]

  look they didn't change the name of it [TS]

  and they gave me a link to the page that [TS]

  talks about the 2013 but i couldn't find [TS]

  anything on the page that said that it [TS]

  wasn't just like a page hadn't yet been [TS]

  updated like nothing about it indicated [TS]

  that that page was aware that they did [TS]

  the reconfiguration thing but anyway I [TS]

  everything that I've seen indicates to [TS]

  me that this is just a price drop and a [TS]

  model elimination and everything about [TS]

  them will be exactly the same including [TS]

  the name and the model number and so no [TS]

  even on the strictest possible [TS]

  definition they could still be for sale [TS]

  yeah so I won't do clear victory until [TS]

  January first but I am confident that [TS]

  i'm most likely to win this you should [TS]

  just start scrounging for money in your [TS]

  couch kch day if you find any change [TS]

  there a little jar and by the end of the [TS]

  air you'll have five dollars now [TS]

  remember I found five dollars at the end [TS]

  of last week's story so we're going and [TS]

  some well we don't worry at some point [TS]

  we're going to talk about something else [TS]

  just that time is not today I'm [TS]

  skeptical it's probably not until 2018 [TS]

  actually no and then in 2018 it'll be Oh [TS]

  where's the mac pro where's the mac pro [TS]

  where's the macro it's not here where's [TS]

  Mac Pro it's not here why isn't it here [TS]

  Apple is doomed where's the mac pro it's [TS]

  not here they already said it didn't [TS]

  even say was gonna come in 2018 so we're [TS]

  already we're already saying it might [TS]

  not be here to play 19 so our [TS]

  expectations are appropriately set will [TS]

  be like that's gonna stop you too they [TS]

  totally like this I seriously though [TS]

  this announcement that they're doing [TS]

  this thing gets rid of a lot of anxiety [TS]

  it's like it's just a matter of what we [TS]

  used to before say it's just a matter of [TS]

  when but we didn't know now we know they [TS]

  put a stake in the ground they said [TS]

  words they made promises they're going [TS]

  to keep them like it's gonna happen it's [TS]

  gonna happen for us I know it mmm then [TS]

  we can plan what they release that's [TS]

  where the good stuff is after they [TS]

  release something or announce it [TS]

  everything in between to like [TS]

  if they preview it at you know a fall [TS]

  event or WTC or whatever else then we [TS]

  can nitpick the preview to death that [TS]

  that's at least two episodes yep then we [TS]

  can say like they said they were gonna [TS]

  make the parts upgradeable but [TS]

  everything is soldered to this [TS]

  motherboard what were they thinking that [TS]

  they just mean that they're gonna create [TS]

  an a they won't even upgrade it if [TS]

  everything is soldered on yeah well have [TS]

  fun there but but now they said so many [TS]

  of the right things is just that this [TS]

  this is going to be a long honeymoon [TS]

  period for me to just imagine how [TS]

  awesomeness things going to be and then [TS]

  a three-year-long just tirade about how [TS]

  it doesn't meet your every expectation [TS]

  I'm still even considering buying the [TS]

  imac pro like in addition to the mat [TS]

  just has been so long so they bought a [TS]

  mac i should do a marco thing where i'm [TS]

  gonna buy the imac pro keep it for a [TS]

  little while sell it by the mac pro [TS]

  because I i had the mac pro for only [TS]

  about 9 or 10 months before the 5k came [TS]

  out and i didn't lose that much money on [TS]

  it like I lost I think like fifteen [TS]

  percent or something over like you know [TS]

  almost a year that I consider that [TS]

  pretty good yeah do you think I a [TS]

  macbook adorable update is eminent cuz [TS]

  I'm really itching to buy one you mean [TS]

  the speed bump sorry I blows and do [TS]

  those anymore it's really it honestly is [TS]

  a very good question like where the heck [TS]

  that is because it sure seems like you [TS]

  know that that probably should have come [TS]

  out this spring pretty sure the trip was [TS]

  available but you know at me there could [TS]

  be seen a like now we don't know before [TS]

  we could just say it's just Tim Cook [TS]

  being you know Tim Cook now we can say [TS]

  maybe they're rethinking things maybe [TS]

  like now we can be a little more [TS]

  optimistic and like well maybe maybe [TS]

  they're doing something else well like I [TS]

  said when you talked about the mac mini [TS]

  just because they've realized that if [TS]

  you want a high-end computer you have to [TS]

  update it like they've clearly made that [TS]

  realization that a they do want a lion [TS]

  computer and be you can't have my [TS]

  computer you don't update it right that [TS]

  doesn't mean they made that same [TS]

  realization but anything else in the [TS]

  product line because they could be [TS]

  saying as you go down the line it's like [TS]

  you can have a macbook adorable that we [TS]

  never update it's not a high-end product [TS]

  nobody cares about performance it's fine [TS]

  why why waste time updating it every [TS]

  year with speed bumps you know and like [TS]

  that that's one of those things like so [TS]

  many things that Apple reconsider is [TS]

  like why does a computer have to have an [TS]

  opt [TS]

  dr why why the batteries have to be [TS]

  removable laptops right all these things [TS]

  that other companies won't consider one [TS]

  of the one of the recent ones that Apple [TS]

  has adopted is do you have to speed bump [TS]

  computers every year just because new [TS]

  components are available and apples [TS]

  answer bus no no you don't like our [TS]

  sales don't seem to suffer from it in [TS]

  fact maybe they do better because we [TS]

  built up all this demand among the [TS]

  people who know that our computers are [TS]

  old and crappy that we have these big [TS]

  spikes when we release new things so [TS]

  maybe you don't have to do that now on [TS]

  the high end they've changed their mind [TS]

  but the whole rest of the line I will [TS]

  need to be convinced that they realize [TS]

  that speed bumps are a thing that they [TS]

  should go back to doing and honestly I [TS]

  don't know if they should quote unquote [TS]

  should for the business we all want them [TS]

  tech nerds get upset that like speed [TS]

  bumps don't happen but maybe they're [TS]

  right for non high-end products that the [TS]

  customers for those products don't care [TS]

  and we'll just keep buying the macbook [TS]

  adorable and updated every two years or [TS]

  every three years or whatever and it [TS]

  will be fine and and honestly I can kind [TS]

  of get on the same page with them if [TS]

  they have the numbers to back that up [TS]

  because the role of those products is [TS]

  not to be the very fastest thing you can [TS]

  get and when you do comparisons against [TS]

  competitive products it's like what we [TS]

  got mac OS you can't design apples to [TS]

  apples comparison haha because who cares [TS]

  if you can buy a dell laptop for way [TS]

  cheaper that has updated components no [TS]

  Mac OS so that could be what they're [TS]

  saying now I hope they go back to speed [TS]

  bumps because I think it's just a [TS]

  healthier thing to do overall and the [TS]

  lack of speed bumps makes technical [TS]

  people angry at Apple which spills over [TS]

  into our attitudes about everything else [TS]

  that they do but who knows but anyway [TS]

  they made the right decision in the mac [TS]

  pro again I'm still basking in that some [TS]

  honeymoon period you know if you look at [TS]

  the if you look at the macrumors buyer's [TS]

  guide macbook don't buy macbook air [TS]

  don't buy macbook pro yeah imac don't [TS]

  buy mac mini don't buy mac pro by now i [TS]

  can't i can't believe they did that like [TS]

  it's like a bug in their systems like [TS]

  yeah i know they quote unquote updated [TS]

  it by changing prices but like you got [TS]

  to turn that back to don't buy like [TS]

  don't don't buy that yeah there's no way [TS]

  that is earned there is no way that's a [TS]

  bug that is earned even less than the [TS]

  new badge was when we started this show [TS]

  from 10-12 mac pro [TS]

  is it still that way because I saw those [TS]

  same screen shots when people screens [TS]

  haha look at this isn't as funny their [TS]

  buggy software put it as a bi but it's [TS]

  still there maybe I mean someone at [TS]

  macrumors actually think so it's I would [TS]

  looked a minute ago they never change [TS]

  still there it right there right on top [TS]

  by now it says buy now price drop so it [TS]

  at least clarifies that it's not an [TS]

  update but but don't but don't buy now [TS]

  no one should buy those unless you have [TS]

  less you have to less you know you have [TS]

  to because like whatever reason that [TS]

  Casey's co-worker means about right but [TS]

  regular people don't buy those it did [TS]

  not improve no and the price drop if if [TS]

  they had dropped the price is fifty [TS]

  bucks yeah definitely buy right but I [TS]

  didn't know it feel pretty darn [TS]

  expensive you should not buy it yeah now [TS]

  to get a good configuration instead of [TS]

  spending seven thousand dollars you'll [TS]

  spend five thousand dollars still [TS]

  probably not or spending for almost four [TS]

  year old computer for a computer that [TS]

  your phone beats into yeah marks well [TS]

  it's not that bad but it's not great [TS]

  there's a refurb macbook adorables I [TS]

  know my brain is telling me no but my [TS]

  heart is saying yes don't just don't I I [TS]

  want one though I'm sick of having an [TS]

  iPad that doesn't let me get anything [TS]

  done on it imagine if I pets actually [TS]

  worked for getting things done I'd be [TS]

  amazing oh my god [TS]