The Accidental Tech Podcast

218: MagSafe Cups of Water


  top of the morning to you oh yeah I was [TS]

  not at all prepared for that the best [TS]

  part about that is that that's the very [TS]

  first time you've ever greeted anybody [TS]

  on a skype call I think that's accurate [TS]

  I really honestly I'm not sure that was [TS]

  a greeting I guess like to go you're [TS]

  right it is a greeting of a kind but not [TS]

  meant that way so your beard are you is [TS]

  your beard gone or what no this is my [TS]

  fear I was like he's gonna get back and [TS]

  he's still gonna have it you just don't [TS]

  let it happen to you and it's a ficus [TS]

  yes gonna determine whether oh no this [TS]

  is a problem it's a big problem i have [TS]

  started this morning in ireland the [TS]

  conclusion of a wonderful trip to the OL [TS]

  conference so I woke up this morning in [TS]

  Dublin is now in the time zone that I [TS]

  was supposed to be used to two in the [TS]

  morning and and so we'll see how this [TS]

  goes I never really shifted a hundred [TS]

  percent to the new time zone so what has [TS]

  really happened is now just time has [TS]

  lost all meaning and I'm just always [TS]

  tired but yet can't sleep so this should [TS]

  be interesting delightful day I am [TS]

  overjoyed that you are this tired with [TS]

  respect because this means i have a [TS]

  prayer of going to bed somewhere near my [TS]

  normal bedtime because i figured about [TS]

  an hour you're gonna be like a go and [TS]

  then and then at this point it'll be [TS]

  great now his piece he's punch-drunk now [TS]

  he's gonna be all loopy he's gonna walk [TS]

  even longer wait we're having a holiday [TS]

  party I got to go I'll be right back [TS]

  he's high on life I'm gonna go through [TS]

  the same thing the Marcos going through [TS]

  only realize I'm not going to come back [TS]

  and do a podcast gonna come back and go [TS]

  like to work yeah that's not fun I mean [TS]

  technically this is work for all of us [TS]

  me included except some of us have other [TS]

  work alright let's let's start the show [TS]

  as usual with some follow-up copyright [TS]

  2011 John siracusa a PFS iOS app updates [TS]

  have hit the App Store tell us about [TS]

  this John everyone's telling us about [TS]

  them they're say [TS]

  hey guess what I downloaded the the [TS]

  updated version of my few of my favorite [TS]

  app and the top thing in the release [TS]

  notes was fixed ApS filename issues we [TS]

  have many many reports of many people [TS]

  sending as many applications that [TS]

  surprisingly feature a PFS in their [TS]

  release notes so the update is happening [TS]

  even though the update was seamless for [TS]

  users for developers not exactly [TS]

  actually I think I might have hit one of [TS]

  these problems so in the recent version [TS]

  of overcast that's in the store as of [TS]

  late last week I had to remove support [TS]

  for m4a chapters and I forget whether I [TS]

  talked about on the show and I was done [TS]

  talking about here now you just tweeted [TS]

  about it that's right anyway so so for [TS]

  AAC /em for a slash Moff john chapters i [TS]

  had to remove support for them [TS]

  temporarily at least until i can write [TS]

  my own parser because the apple parser [TS]

  kept crashing on some of the fun a lot [TS]

  of the files that were that we're doing [TS]

  and iOS you know there's no way as far [TS]

  as I know there's no way for me to parse [TS]

  metadata like in a separate process or [TS]

  anything so that if it crashes my whole [TS]

  app doesn't come down and I think it's [TS]

  the crashes seemed to start around the [TS]

  time to 10.3 beta started so it would [TS]

  not surprise me if this was file system [TS]

  related and the reason I had to do all [TS]

  this it was kind of a crazy hack I'll [TS]

  try to tell quickly basically when [TS]

  overcast downloads its files it [TS]

  downloads them with no extension it just [TS]

  saves it as like you know a big ID [TS]

  number with no file extension you know [TS]

  mp3 or anything the metadata parser from [TS]

  Apple and the API can only operate on a [TS]

  file name or URL cannot operate a just [TS]

  account on a data blob so it knows about [TS]

  the file name and if that file name does [TS]

  not end in dot AAC or thought I m4a it [TS]

  doesn't work right but only for those [TS]

  files and if it's an mp3 needs to end in [TS]

  that to work right and so they the [TS]

  solution i came up with was when oh and [TS]

  also I don't always have the whole file [TS]

  sometimes I'm streaming the file and so [TS]

  I have to just write out like the bid I [TS]

  have to a temp file and then read the [TS]

  metadata from it and then read and [TS]

  delete the temp file and [TS]

  then to get around the extension issue [TS]

  when i'm reading the metadata from an [TS]

  m4a file i create a symlink to it with a [TS]

  dot m4a extension read the file name [TS]

  read the data off of that and then [TS]

  delete the symlink and it was at those [TS]

  parts that i was getting a lot of [TS]

  crashes all of a sudden in 10 3 so [TS]

  something's up with the way my app and [TS]

  or the metadata parsing library we in [TS]

  iOS deals with me creating these [TS]

  symlinks or writing these little tiny [TS]

  temp files to don't actually include the [TS]

  whole file and it was causing the whole [TS]

  thing to crash sometimes so I [TS]

  temporarily remove that support and left [TS]

  in only my own ID 3.mp3 parser which [TS]

  supports mp3 chapters which is what this [TS]

  show uses because that I could do all in [TS]

  memory with my own safe routines but at [TS]

  some point I have to figure out how to [TS]

  re-implement support for AAC chapters [TS]

  and for the lack of them I apologize to [TS]

  the entire nation of Germany and I I'm [TS]

  hopefully hoping to get that done [TS]

  quickly but right now that's there's a [TS]

  big problem with that and I think it [TS]

  actually might be related to some bug's [TS]

  somewhere whether it's minor apples I'm [TS]

  not sure regarding the file system [TS]

  because it did not happen before 10 3 [TS]

  why don't you try switching from some [TS]

  links to our links and see if that just [TS]

  magically fixes it well I was thinking [TS]

  that that's I'm not sure I want to even [TS]

  still be dealing with links i think the [TS]

  the better long-term wealth the longest [TS]

  term fix is to write my own parser but [TS]

  the the problem is when i get in too far [TS]

  into this again the the AAC chapters [TS]

  format is completely undocumented and [TS]

  proprietary to Apple there you can I've [TS]

  tried to figure it out on numerous times [TS]

  in numerous occasions in the past and [TS]

  I've gotten most of it but it's really [TS]

  really tricky and really undocumented [TS]

  and it like the end of the bits of data [TS]

  that you need are all over the file they [TS]

  aren't even all up front like there's [TS]

  interspersed throughout the entire file [TS]

  because there it's it's structured in [TS]

  such a way that like as it's playing a [TS]

  track like if it's playing a stream of a [TS]

  track like if if say the chapter changes [TS]

  and the chapter includes a URL at an [TS]

  image then the URL and image are like [TS]

  splice [TS]

  into the stream at that point in the [TS]

  audio data so it might not like what so [TS]

  you can't so exactly this is why this [TS]

  format sucks so you can't even and out [TS]

  that same like splicing format also [TS]

  applies to the titles of the chapters so [TS]

  you cannot build a table of contents [TS]

  reliably from an AAC chapter file unless [TS]

  you have the whole file because you have [TS]

  to skip through the whole thing to get [TS]

  all the titles out that's bananas yes I [TS]

  know it's a huge pain in the mp3 chapter [TS]

  4 chapter format it's based on id3 tags [TS]

  which are very very crude but very very [TS]

  simple to deal with and they have a lot [TS]

  of limitations it's very similar to like [TS]

  our SS vs atom feed formats like back in [TS]

  the day like RSS is really simple and [TS]

  hence the name but you know it had it [TS]

  had some limitations and Adam was [TS]

  designed to like be everything to [TS]

  everybody and as a result it's overly [TS]

  complicated and a huge pain in the butt [TS]

  and that's that's kind of mp3 versus the [TS]

  mob format which is what AC and I'm for [TS]

  a that's that's all just renaming [TS]

  reading versions of the mouth format [TS]

  basically asterisk but basically once [TS]

  again humans he's trying to say move he [TS]

  means a file that ends in da mov just [TS]

  just so you're not like wasn't even [TS]

  saying because I know that's happening [TS]

  that's a color isn't that my mom has the [TS]

  ross ram yeah wow yeah so anyway that's [TS]

  a that is my possible a PFS bug and [TS]

  overcast and also why anybody listening [TS]

  why your chapters in mob format podcast [TS]

  might have stopped working in the recent [TS]

  update yeah that doesn't sound like an a [TS]

  PFS thing but who knows it is a new file [TS]

  system and if it is related to like it's [TS]

  not it's not the kind that people are [TS]

  talking about in the release notes cuz [TS]

  they're all talking about encoding [TS]

  filename encoding issues but I'm [TS]

  assuming when you make these temp files [TS]

  you're making able to ASCII file name so [TS]

  it's totally not an issue here yeah it's [TS]

  like like the file name is like is the [TS]

  ID number of the of the file dot m4a now [TS]

  and so the other possible quick solution [TS]

  if I want to do just a quick solution [TS]

  just save all the files as dot m4a even [TS]

  when they're not and like and just you [TS]

  know have a migration that runs on the [TS]

  first launch of the new version that [TS]

  just renamed them all and just doesn't [TS]

  do any kind of hard linking or simply [TS]

  can just permanently leave them as those [TS]

  names but then that will break the mp3 [TS]

  file decode or sometimes under certain [TS]

  conditions so it's like it and and the [TS]

  m4a / AC / mob / move [TS]

  are all like that format is last time I [TS]

  checked it was like less than five [TS]

  percent of all items in the iTunes [TS]

  directory I'm so so it's like I think I [TS]

  think you mean the Apple podcast [TS]

  directory oh god you're right it's been [TS]

  like two hours all right so yeah in the [TS]

  in the Apple podcast directory the vast [TS]

  majority well over ninety percent the [TS]

  format is mp3 so to do a whole bunch of [TS]

  work to accommodate AAC files in a [TS]

  special way especially chapter eyes ones [TS]

  it's a we're talking a very small number [TS]

  of podcast I'm guessing off the top of [TS]

  my head the total number of podcasts [TS]

  that are both chapter eyes and m4a [TS]

  format and that ever listened to by [TS]

  anybody and overcast is probably less [TS]

  than a hundred maybe even less than 10 [TS]

  and so it's like it's it's a question of [TS]

  whether I actually should do anything [TS]

  about this or not president like ninety [TS]

  percent of the podcast in Germany seen [TS]

  and the Germans do use chapters heavily [TS]

  and a few of them do use AAC chapters [TS]

  but a lot of the news mp3 chapters or [TS]

  other formats that I don't even support [TS]

  like the pod love simple chapters format [TS]

  which there's a wonderful idea but [TS]

  there's just I don't have a lot of [TS]

  market push to support it really yet the [TS]

  idea behind that by the way pile have [TS]

  simple chapters which is the idea [TS]

  basically is to put the chapter [TS]

  information in the feed rather than the [TS]

  individual files and that's a great idea [TS]

  but there's just there's almost no [TS]

  support for it on on either side on the [TS]

  producer side on the CMS side or on the [TS]

  you know podcast app player side so [TS]

  that's I don't know what I'm going to do [TS]

  about that if anything but uh chapters I [TS]

  don't know I waded into this chapter [TS]

  mess and now making a chapter tool now [TS]

  man this chapter app and now I'm stuck [TS]

  with parsing chapters forever chapters [TS]

  all the way down it is I do love the [TS]

  Germans though they are great bringing [TS]

  it back around talking more more [TS]

  directly about a PFS Kyle South grey [TS]

  otherwise known as Kyle's the gray had [TS]

  tweeted at us a very interesting pair of [TS]

  screenshots so he writes here's my iOS [TS]

  disks before and after upgrading to 10 [TS]

  dot 3 so it shows in the before that he [TS]

  has [TS]

  a capacity or it's eight of his discs or [TS]

  eighty-six percent full ninety [TS]

  one-percent fall in twenty percent full [TS]

  after upgrade the same discs go from [TS]

  eighty six to forty percent from and [TS]

  then from twenty to eight percent full [TS]

  which means somewhere out of nowhere he [TS]

  now has more free space thanks to a PFS [TS]

  you're looking at the wrong column in [TS]

  these screenshots that's a mime I bet [TS]

  yes it's a lot of numbers will put the [TS]

  link and the chances tweet and you can [TS]

  look at the screenshot so the [TS]

  percentages are different right but okay [TS]

  this is this the output of like DF or [TS]

  whatever and the key thing to look at [TS]

  like so there are some partitions that [TS]

  are not interesting to us like dev for [TS]

  the dev of s and the one at the bottom [TS]

  which is like a baseband data for [TS]

  wireless or whatever but there are you [TS]

  can see the the OS and user partitions [TS]

  and the key column is size before iOS 10 [TS]

  the size of the first one which is [TS]

  mounted at / is 4.3 gigs and that's like [TS]

  the OS partition I'm assuming and the [TS]

  size of like the big one where all your [TS]

  stuff is is 59 gigs so 59 plus four [TS]

  point three gigs it's like this is a 64 [TS]

  gig phone right and then you know [TS]

  ancillary stuff left over for their [TS]

  little partitions right after upgrade [TS]

  the size of both the iOS and the your [TS]

  stuff partition both of them say 64 gigs [TS]

  so the OS president it's 64 gigs and the [TS]

  the user partition it's 64 gigs is [TS]

  exactly what we were talking about it [TS]

  and this didn't occur to me before when [TS]

  I was talking about the sizing because I [TS]

  couldn't quite figure out how the [TS]

  numbers added up but this makes perfect [TS]

  sense if you have a 64 gig phone it does [TS]

  what we were saying an example a show [TS]

  with like if you had a one gig disk and [TS]

  you put 21 gig partitions they have a 64 [TS]

  gig disk essentially in this phone and [TS]

  they put to 64 gig partitions on it one [TS]

  of them for the OS and one of them for [TS]

  all the rest of your stuff which is a [TS]

  reasonable simple occasion because now [TS]

  they don't have to like think about oh [TS]

  geez how big should the OS partition be [TS]

  like how big is our OS how much how much [TS]

  you know should be yeah you know uses in [TS]

  the pre iOS 10.3 state if the size of [TS]

  the OS partition was 4.3 gigs but only [TS]

  3.6 was used so they give themselves a [TS]

  little wiggle room like if the next I [TS]

  West update is little bigger and they [TS]

  are they could resize the partitions but [TS]

  with a PFS they don't have to worry [TS]

  about exactly how to size / dishes both [TS]

  of them are 64 gigs both of them have [TS]

  quote-unquote [TS]

  whole phone and that messes up the [TS]

  capacity and how much is available [TS]

  measurements depending on how you are [TS]

  going to are you going to report this [TS]

  information so that could explain these [TS]

  discrepancies that we were seeing before [TS]

  in particular if you have 55 gigs used [TS]

  and you think the thing is 60 64 gigs [TS]

  then you think you have more left than [TS]

  if it was a different size or occurred [TS]

  just BDF totally confused by a PFS [TS]

  either way free space and a PFS is weird [TS]

  indeed moving on and video job postings [TS]

  suggest an nvidia chip return to apple [TS]

  macs john i presume this is most [TS]

  interesting to you also tell us about [TS]

  this week talk last show about nvidia [TS]

  releasing the mac drivers for their new [TS]

  card for the whole line of top-end cards [TS]

  essentially which is a weird thing to do [TS]

  because apples even sell a computer that [TS]

  you can stick an nvidia card in just [TS]

  older ones that people might still have [TS]

  hanging around and I that something was [TS]

  tickling I might about this and a lot of [TS]

  people sent in this link from September [TS]

  2016 a job posting Nvidia did a job post [TS]

  and they were looking for someone to be [TS]

  a software engineer at Nvidia and the [TS]

  role would require this is that quote [TS]

  from their job listing working in [TS]

  partnership with apple and writing code [TS]

  that will define and shape the future of [TS]

  graphics related software on max so they [TS]

  were looking for this in September and [TS]

  now they've delivered a thing so who [TS]

  knows when the Mac Pro decision was made [TS]

  who knows when this decision was made [TS]

  but really Nvidia made a decision that [TS]

  previously we weren't too much mac stuff [TS]

  but guess what now we're gonna and again [TS]

  it seems really weird that Nvidia would [TS]

  make that decision on its own because [TS]

  they have no market to sell into except [TS]

  for people who really old Macs so it [TS]

  especially saying working in partnership [TS]

  with Apple certainly seems like Apple [TS]

  was talking to Nvidia sometime it on or [TS]

  before September 23rd 2016 saying you [TS]

  know come back we we miss you let's [TS]

  let's let's get some make up whatever [TS]

  our problem was we want to get some of [TS]

  that sweet Pascal hardware and Max [TS]

  someday and this could have been well [TS]

  before they even decided he making a mac [TS]

  pro so who knows maybe the imac pro of [TS]

  invidious stuff and i don't know [TS]

  I'm getting my hopes up a little bit but [TS]

  anyway the mystery deepens but this [TS]

  wasn't an overnight thing and I think [TS]

  it's gotta have it's got to have some [TS]

  form of apples input because I don't [TS]

  just seem curious an invidi would do [TS]

  this on its own all right friend of the [TS]

  show Kieran Healy rights in regarding [TS]

  Marco at 43 minutes and 15 seconds of [TS]

  the last episode we'll put an overcast [TS]

  link in the show notes quote obviously [TS]

  something has changed with apples [TS]

  thinking on release schedule since 2012 [TS]

  around then everything slowed down this [TS]

  is paraphrased around then everything [TS]

  slowed down but now something has [TS]

  changed to make apple flip around so [TS]

  Kieran pontificates I wonder if it was [TS]

  project Titan which is ostensibly the [TS]

  car project perhaps that swallowed up a [TS]

  lot of resources last I heard maybe nine [TS]

  months ago it sounded like that was [TS]

  getting at least substantially scaled [TS]

  back it was surprising not to hear on [TS]

  the show but also elsewhere the news [TS]

  coverage i read any discussion of the [TS]

  possibility that the apple car project [TS]

  was the black hole that absorbed [TS]

  hardware design talent and effort for [TS]

  two to three years with no results as [TS]

  yet and that had significant opportunity [TS]

  cost for every piece of hardware the [TS]

  company makes apart from the iphone [TS]

  thoughts on that any kind of massive [TS]

  project like this like apple trying to [TS]

  make a car and then a self-driving car [TS]

  that's going to draw talent from the [TS]

  company no question however i think a [TS]

  large part of the talent that was or is [TS]

  working on that was probably from [TS]

  external sources it's probably like you [TS]

  know from external hires from [TS]

  acquisitions places like that i don't [TS]

  think the team that was working on the [TS]

  mac pro or would have updated the mac [TS]

  mini otherwise or was trying to ship new [TS]

  laptops two years earlier you know i [TS]

  don't think those people went to go work [TS]

  on the on the car project and that's why [TS]

  those things didn't happen you know it's [TS]

  probably more complicated than that also [TS]

  i bet project Titan has not actually got [TS]

  a layer or anything or necessarily been [TS]

  scaled back I think it was just [TS]

  rethought based on what we've actually [TS]

  heard and what actually makes more sense [TS]

  but anyway I'm guessing that these are [TS]

  at least partially separate that that [TS]

  the the the product slow down that we [TS]

  have seen was not probably a direct [TS]

  result of [TS]

  project Titan suck in town out of the [TS]

  company I think it's way more likely [TS]

  that it was a combination of operational [TS]

  screw-ups somewhere along the way and [TS]

  also a just and also decisions up top [TS]

  that were basically along the lines of [TS]

  we don't think these are worth doing or [TS]

  product Titan being scaled back like [TS]

  regardless of the current size of it [TS]

  because of the change in direction that [TS]

  was rumored I think a lot of people get [TS]

  laid off like we don't need people who [TS]

  know how to build a car if we're not [TS]

  building a car anymore but all of a [TS]

  sudden we do need people who know how to [TS]

  write software that other people in the [TS]

  audio industry are going to consume or [TS]

  whatever but yeah the main reason I [TS]

  present show notes ask question and you [TS]

  know it people have this question a lot [TS]

  I think we've talked about a few times [TS]

  in the past but you're always looking [TS]

  for something to blame for the the [TS]

  product that you want to be updated or [TS]

  work done or become prominent not [TS]

  getting the attention it deserves and [TS]

  it's easy to blame it on the mysterious [TS]

  you know potentially very large secret [TS]

  operation going on to make a car but I'm [TS]

  on the same page with Marco I think [TS]

  projects like this do take talent away [TS]

  and take attention away attention to the [TS]

  executives and the attention the [TS]

  employees but in general if any project [TS]

  was going to be it was going to contain [TS]

  a large proportion of new employees who [TS]

  are new to apple or who would not be [TS]

  working on the Mac at all it's a car [TS]

  project because yeah there's going to be [TS]

  smart people who you're like we want [TS]

  something people visit your smart people [TS]

  and they're just good software people so [TS]

  we'll definitely take them right but [TS]

  it's not I think it's not the same thing [TS]

  as for example when iOS stole a lot of [TS]

  resources from the Mac because they're [TS]

  the same core OS under the covers right [TS]

  and making a GUI operating system even [TS]

  though one is touching one is Mouse [TS]

  they're so closely related they share [TS]

  code they share concepts of every [TS]

  where's the car is far enough away that [TS]

  I feel like the worst thing you can [TS]

  probably blame it for is distracting [TS]

  executives perhaps but I think it is a [TS]

  separate a separate issue then why are [TS]

  max taken a long time to update all of a [TS]

  sudden you know why why are these other [TS]

  products being emphasized to emphasize [TS]

  if you want to blame anything you blame [TS]

  like the watch or something [TS]

  another project that is closer to the [TS]

  Mac than the car is to say you know [TS]

  because there was you know the watch was [TS]

  behind schedule a little bit according [TS]

  to the rumors of what Apple wanted to be [TS]

  released and this little fire drill [TS]

  about software and all sorts of the [TS]

  stuff so I don't blame the car or the [TS]

  whatever it is now at all we respond to [TS]

  this week by mail route my favorite [TS]

  email spam filtering service for a free [TS]

  30-day trial go to mail route net / ATP [TS]

  you know who should handle your email [TS]

  security and delivery people who do only [TS]

  that and that's mail route the big [TS]

  companies have bowed out of the email [TS]

  protection business because it's hard [TS]

  work there was postini McAfee MX logic [TS]

  mail routes team is focused entirely on [TS]

  email security since 1997 I was still in [TS]

  middle school in I don't know high [TS]

  school still that was a long time ago [TS]

  mail route protects your email and [TS]

  hardware against spam viruses and other [TS]

  threats and they deliver your mail even [TS]

  if your mail server cannot there's no [TS]

  hardware or software to install if you [TS]

  own your own domain all you got to do is [TS]

  point the MX records at mail route and [TS]

  then tell me about servers where to [TS]

  deliver your clean filtered nail the [TS]

  interface is very easy to navigate and [TS]

  loaded with admin tools there's even an [TS]

  API if you need that and all this is [TS]

  designed to make your life better as an [TS]

  email administrator no spam no viruses [TS]

  and no bounced mail and also if you are [TS]

  just an individual like me you know I [TS]

  don't run an email server for anybody [TS]

  else but I do buy my own email service [TS]

  and their built-in spam filtering isn't [TS]

  very good mail routes is the best I've [TS]

  ever seen so you just put mail route in [TS]

  front of any other I'm a post or you're [TS]

  an email servers and they clean out all [TS]

  the spam and viruses for you and deliver [TS]

  to you is almost no spam it is [TS]

  incredibly rare that a piece of spam [TS]

  actually hits my mailbox and it believe [TS]

  me this mail this milk has been around [TS]

  for a long time it is shocking how [TS]

  effective mail route has been since I [TS]

  put it on there probably a year ago now [TS]

  i absolutely love mail route so whether [TS]

  you're running a big server or group of [TS]

  servers you need lots of filtering to [TS]

  save yourself hardware costs for all [TS]

  those server loads or if you're an [TS]

  individual user with an email service [TS]

  that you pay for and you want better [TS]

  spam filter than what it provides i [TS]

  highly suggest mail route so check it [TS]

  out today stop spam with a free 30-day [TS]

  trial at mail route net [TS]

  / ATP and listener to this show if you [TS]

  use that link now there are two dents [TS]

  I'll gtp you will get ten percent off [TS]

  for the lifetime of your account so [TS]

  every time they charge you for your [TS]

  membership fee you get ten percent off [TS]

  that's an incredible deal mail route net [TS]

  / ATP thanks a lot front of the show [TS]

  Greg Pearce had noticed something [TS]

  interesting about the clips app which I [TS]

  was able to talk about briefly last [TS]

  episode before we dope in 23 hours of [TS]

  mac pro talk he noted that clips did not [TS]

  ask permission to use his camera or [TS]

  microphone and he said bad form Apple [TS]

  which I agree with k rights in replied [TS]

  to Greg it's a deliberate choice made by [TS]

  apple they granted clip special [TS]

  entitlements to access camera mic [TS]

  contacts etc without asking and there's [TS]

  a screenshot of what I believe to be [TS]

  oats the entitlements of the clips app [TS]

  and it has a key calm da da da private [TS]

  TCC ow which has entries such as Katie [TS]

  CC service photos and camera and [TS]

  microphone etc which is an interesting [TS]

  special case that we aren't allowed to [TS]

  do that that blesses clips and gives [TS]

  clips access to your mic and camera and [TS]

  context what not without the user [TS]

  actively having done so which I mean [TS]

  obviously it's apples right to do that [TS]

  but I don't know I kind of wish that [TS]

  they would just play by the same rules [TS]

  with everyone else so this is not a new [TS]

  thing with clips tons of apple apps do [TS]

  this but it's just a it's worth on again [TS]

  doing his people didn't know you know [TS]

  obviously Apple runs the platform I can [TS]

  do whatever the hell they want right and [TS]

  they do like a minute thing they put [TS]

  Xcode on the mac app store for crying [TS]

  out loud like hex code is in slight [TS]

  violation of a couple of Mac App Store [TS]

  rules that employ their applications but [TS]

  for this specific case of it for iOS [TS]

  apps like this in particular I think [TS]

  like it's it's an interesting object [TS]

  lesson for for the policies they have in [TS]

  that clearly someone at Apple who is [TS]

  making Clips thought that not having to [TS]

  ask for permission to access the camera [TS]

  in the microphone and you know your [TS]

  contacts and and your photos and stuff [TS]

  like that is a better user experience [TS]

  for the app like forget about whether [TS]

  they have the ability to get rid of to [TS]

  put these secret entitlements in [TS]

  are not like it's a design question is [TS]

  this app better when it asked for [TS]

  regression or is this a better when it [TS]

  doesn't ask for mission and it seems [TS]

  like this is an interface decision this [TS]

  is a nicer experience for users if we [TS]

  don't ask for permission right but [TS]

  because only Apple gets to make that [TS]

  it's kind of like they're saying not [TS]

  only do we Apple get to do secret things [TS]

  you don't get to do but because we get [TS]

  to do those secret things our [TS]

  applications have a nicer user [TS]

  experience than yours can ever have [TS]

  because the first thing you have to do [TS]

  on it first launched is throw a bunch of [TS]

  dialogues in someone's face and say can [TS]

  I do this can I do this can I do this [TS]

  and users don't like that and we get to [TS]

  bypass that but you because you are [TS]

  untrustworthy must have a worst user [TS]

  experience and needless to say the vast [TS]

  majority of applications downloaded from [TS]

  the App Store not made by apple and so [TS]

  it's like every application except for [TS]

  apples has to have a worse user [TS]

  experience I don't know what the [TS]

  solution is because you do want [TS]

  applications asking for information you [TS]

  don't want applications to be able to [TS]

  secretly use your camera and get it your [TS]

  photos right but it's an interesting [TS]

  dilemma because it's like Apple Apple is [TS]

  choosing not to eat its own dog food or [TS]

  follow its own rules not because they're [TS]

  flouting their power because because I [TS]

  think they really believe this makes a [TS]

  better application and so yeah I think [TS]

  this is evidence of a perhaps a [TS]

  rethinking even if it's just a very [TS]

  minor rethinking of how permission is [TS]

  asked for and granted because perhaps [TS]

  the most obtrusive way to do anything on [TS]

  iOS is to throw a modal dialogue on top [TS]

  of everything and i'm not sure what the [TS]

  answer is would it be better if it like [TS]

  slid down or had a different appearance [TS]

  would it be better if there was some [TS]

  other way that these permissions [TS]

  manifested maybe when you download the [TS]

  app you could give it something or users [TS]

  could I don't even know I don't know the [TS]

  solution is I just thought it was it [TS]

  highlighted this this user interface [TS]

  issue more so than the petiole thing [TS]

  because again tons of Apple apps do this [TS]

  finally a t-shirt update so if you are [TS]

  listening to this episode either live or [TS]

  recorded it doesn't matter you are [TS]

  probably listening to it sometime before [TS]

  April 26th if you are listening to this [TS]

  episode right now and you want a t-shirt [TS]

  and you have not ordered it please order [TS]

  it now I cannot tell you the amount of [TS]

  times we've heard people say either oh I [TS]

  had no idea the t-shirts were for sale [TS]

  or [TS]

  oh I meant to get one but then I just [TS]

  plumb forgot don't be that person or [TS]

  dirty shirt yes this is incredibly [TS]

  self-serving yes I acknowledge that but [TS]

  I am so sick of people saying oh I did [TS]

  not have any idea or oh I forgot don't [TS]

  forget please if it's April 26 to 2017 [TS]

  before April 26 to 2017 you're listening [TS]

  to this show please if you are [TS]

  interested buy a t-shirt now John can [TS]

  you give us a little bit of details on [TS]

  what's going on with those because [TS]

  there's been a couple of changes since [TS]

  we last spoke yeah but first I have to [TS]

  remind myself to listen to your advice [TS]

  because for the past like week I've been [TS]

  like you know what I need auditors to [TS]

  sing here actually I too have not [TS]

  ordered my shirts don't be like us okay [TS]

  don't be like that we know when we stop [TS]

  selling these shirts even we can't order [TS]

  them again yeah that's really true yeah [TS]

  we'll be out of luck so here's what [TS]

  happened since the last time i talked [TS]

  about how we might be changing things to [TS]

  instead of taking all of your orders for [TS]

  20-something days and then you know [TS]

  after the sale ends sending this huge [TS]

  giant ship and assurance out to [TS]

  everybody instead we might switch to [TS]

  sort of a continuous fulfillment type of [TS]

  thing and that is what we've done it's [TS]

  like in every three days type of thing [TS]

  and that manifests on the tee spring [TS]

  site it's saying this sale ends in two [TS]

  days this sale ends in one days and many [TS]

  people keep sending his tweets panic [TS]

  don't know it says it ends in one day or [TS]

  in two days but you said it was going to [TS]

  end on the twenty-sixth very often these [TS]

  people have already ordered their shirt [TS]

  that is trying to look out for other [TS]

  people to say like or look out for us [TS]

  and say you might not know it but you [TS]

  have your stuff misconfigured well what [TS]

  happens is when it ends it just [TS]

  immediately relaunches for another three [TS]

  day window and this is going to repeat [TS]

  into the 26 fish so don't fret if it [TS]

  says you have two day remaining or one [TS]

  day remain look at the calendar if it is [TS]

  the 26th or before you can still order [TS]

  if it's after the 26th take seriously [TS]

  any things you see on this hi this is [TS]

  just the way it works on the side I wish [TS]

  we could have said continuous [TS]

  fulfillment but with it with a [TS]

  definitive end date but we can't because [TS]

  this is not how the site works so never [TS]

  fear it's a rolling cycle that repeats [TS]

  every three days ish and the other thing [TS]

  I wanted to mention because T spring [TS]

  itself mentioned it to us one of the [TS]

  shirts that we sell in our bazillion [TS]

  different color varieties here which by [TS]

  the way we didn't point this out but [TS]

  when we serve to this accidentally which [TS]

  is appropriate usually we have some kind [TS]

  of silly in joke apple-related in joke [TS]

  for our shirts for the past couple of [TS]

  years this year the silly unintentional [TS]

  in joke was that our shirt names and the [TS]

  million varieties are like the million [TS]

  different varieties of apple product [TS]

  names it's like macbook two USB ports [TS]

  2013 you know late 2013 or whatever so [TS]

  that's what our shirts are like and we [TS]

  have a million net varieties anyway one [TS]

  of them is what we call the jet black [TS]

  shirt which isn't you know obviously [TS]

  allusion to the new phone color for the [TS]

  iphone 7 and the jet black shirt is a [TS]

  black t-shirt and the printing on it is [TS]

  also in black and that's the joke it's [TS]

  completely black if this is not clear to [TS]

  you that it is black printing on a black [TS]

  t-shirt it will be basically invisible [TS]

  like if you're buying this shirt and you [TS]

  get it and you're like hey I can't see [TS]

  anything on this shirt because it's [TS]

  black ink Clinton on black that's the [TS]

  joke it's a jet black it's you know how [TS]

  much more black took the shirt be and [TS]

  the answer is none none more black which [TS]

  is a different joke or reference if not [TS]

  joke anyway so teespring was encouraging [TS]

  us very strongly to not sell a shirt [TS]

  with black printing on black because [TS]

  customers get it and they're angry [TS]

  because they can't see anything on it [TS]

  and I had faith in our customers and say [TS]

  I hope they get the joke that it's a jet [TS]

  black shirt and it does have black [TS]

  printing and you can see it in the [TS]

  picture like it's not a secret that it's [TS]

  black printing on black but I needless [TS]

  to say if you see that shirt and you're [TS]

  wondering is this black printing on a [TS]

  black shirt and will this be hard to see [TS]

  yes it's black burning on a black shirt [TS]

  and it will be super duper hard to see [TS]

  and that's the joke enjoy alright so yes [TS]

  so if you're listening to this do not be [TS]

  like Casey John and Mark oh don't be us [TS]

  be better than us which is not a very [TS]

  hard thing to do go to 80 PF m / shirt [TS]

  and buy you a shirt if you are so [TS]

  inclined that definitely helps us on the [TS]

  show and we thank you to anyone who is [TS]

  even considered doing so but please [TS]

  blame only the mirror if you miss the [TS]

  window because this one's on you [TS]

  although you should be like us and that [TS]

  in it when you actually do order shirts [TS]

  you should order like five of them like [TS]

  all of us are going to do [TS]

  that's true like anyone's before my kids [TS]

  for the first year my daughter said she [TS]

  she might want one she likes the rainbow [TS]

  one like everybody everybody else John [TS]

  didn't you not even by yourself the [TS]

  addition shirt three years ago that was [TS]

  me I totally did I've got an addition [TS]

  I'm I'm part of the elite are you [TS]

  kidding I was way too cheap to buy an [TS]

  addition Casey that invited say let's a [TS]

  thing about who's actually cheap here I [TS]

  did buy an addition yeah that that's [TS]

  just don't be like us kids go they just [TS]

  go into the t-shirt museum i'll have [TS]

  actually worn it you know i think i've [TS]

  worn mine like twice like I'm afraid to [TS]

  wear it too much that I don't want to [TS]

  wear it out because it's gold it's about [TS]

  it's a valuable t-shirt almost as [TS]

  valuable to cotton for a cheap your [TS]

  t-shirt shipped to Europe right sick [TS]

  burn the real valuable t-shirt for [TS]

  people haven't been keeping about the [TS]

  t-shirts is the very first tee shirt we [TS]

  ever printed but there was a printing [TS]

  error on it and so everybody who got [TS]

  that t-shirt got like the equivalent of [TS]

  the upside-down airplane on the stamp [TS]

  thing right where is it misprinted [TS]

  incorrectly made shirt and then all [TS]

  those same people got a second shirt [TS]

  correctly printed for free yeah so those [TS]

  people got two sheets are the shirts for [TS]

  the price of one and they also got a [TS]

  special collector's item never be [TS]

  reproduced printing error shirt so kudos [TS]

  to those people put those into the short [TS]

  museum oh goodness all right any other [TS]

  follow-up John the keeper of the [TS]

  follow-up anything else you'd like to [TS]

  add no we're at the end you see it you [TS]

  can see it you know John isn't only the [TS]

  keeper of the follow-up mm-hmm I'm [TS]

  heavily credited mmm all right Apple has [TS]

  apparently patented a USBC magsafe style [TS]

  adapter which is super duper exciting [TS]

  for those of us like myself who even [TS]

  though i don't have a US pc laptop i can [TS]

  tell you i will miss having magsafe [TS]

  because it saved my bacon a bunch of [TS]

  times so do we have any thoughts on this [TS]

  why are you excited by it that's the [TS]

  first question because i feel like i [TS]

  have had my laptop saved and or legs [TS]

  saved many many many times by the [TS]

  magsafe adapter that's been on my laptop [TS]

  or den on my laptop's so this looks like [TS]

  it would bring it back which would be [TS]

  great you need a you know magsafe four [TS]

  cups of water but within [TS]

  that yeah that is true yeah so the [TS]

  reason I think you should not be excited [TS]

  about it is because as we've said my [TS]

  time apple patents everything patents [TS]

  have no real bearing on anything that [TS]

  Apple were produced especially if you [TS]

  see the pattern before the product gets [TS]

  a good chance that there's not a product [TS]

  related to that but the reason I put it [TS]

  in here is not because I think apple [TS]

  will make such thing although belkin and [TS]

  a few other companies i think actually [TS]

  do make this exact thing that you're [TS]

  seeing here which is like a little thing [TS]

  that plugs into USB see it has a little [TS]

  mag safety kind of magnet snap off e [TS]

  thing on the end yeah Griffin is the one [TS]

  you think of anything it's unfortunately [TS]

  it's not very well regarded yeah but [TS]

  it's the same idea though it's just that [TS]

  the implementation may not be good visit [TS]

  is actually tricky to get this stuff [TS]

  right the reason I think it's [TS]

  interesting is because that back when we [TS]

  knew they were dropping magsafe oh but [TS]

  none of us actually seen the products [TS]

  yet and we hadn't really used the USBC [TS]

  we're like well you know magsafe is [TS]

  great and everybody loves it but it is [TS]

  bigger and maybe maybe USBC will the [TS]

  connectors will this yank out just as [TS]

  easily as magsafe does because it's a [TS]

  whole new connector it's not like a big [TS]

  USB a connector you know who sees who [TS]

  knows what it'll be like but now that we [TS]

  all have experience with us bc it was [TS]

  pretty safe to say it does not come out [TS]

  as easily as matic safe in any way shape [TS]

  or form and that the hazard of tripping [TS]

  over your cord that's connected through [TS]

  USB see to your laptop is back it used [TS]

  to be mostly gone with magsafe depending [TS]

  on the angle that you trip over it on [TS]

  but now the danger is back and i think [TS]

  USBC kind of like air pods is one of [TS]

  those little things that seems like oh [TS]

  whatever you know wireless earphones or [TS]

  you know magnet instead of plugging in [TS]

  and that seems nice but i think magsafe [TS]

  is was mostly universally beloved the [TS]

  only complaints i ever heard about [TS]

  magsafe were from couch chargers people [TS]

  who use their you know think connected [TS]

  on the couch or like with a big [TS]

  comforter or blanket and they would say [TS]

  it was a little bit too loose in it like [TS]

  they would knock it out unintentionally [TS]

  but that's the only bad thing i've ever [TS]

  heard of a magsafe and for a connector [TS]

  and a technology that looks if you if [TS]

  you just you know look at it it looks [TS]

  like weird and delicate in the same way [TS]

  the lightning does and it like you're [TS]

  looking it's like so it's a magnet and [TS]

  these you know this little tiny set of [TS]

  contacts inside there and all the power [TS]

  to this laptop is going through these [TS]

  tiny little pinprick point things [TS]

  that just seems so much less robust and [TS]

  what if stuff gets in there and so on [TS]

  and so forth but I've had Meg site from [TS]

  many many devices and still have it on [TS]

  many of them and I still think it's a [TS]

  great idea well executed again you know [TS]

  modulo the the the looseness of like [TS]

  magsafe 2 and and other issues like that [TS]

  and I think it's pretty beloved I think [TS]

  people like a couple products because [TS]

  they have magsafe it was another one of [TS]

  those Apple things like that makes it [TS]

  better than just a regular laptop and [TS]

  when it went away and when we discovered [TS]

  that there is no real replacement for it [TS]

  is just like well that advantage is now [TS]

  gone you know it was it was kind of it [TS]

  kind of made their laptops worse in a [TS]

  way and in some tiny way it made their [TS]

  laptops worse and Apple having a patent [TS]

  like this makes me think that it's very [TS]

  least somewhere inside the company they [TS]

  said can we go all USBC but also retain [TS]

  the advantages of magsafe somehow by you [TS]

  know but by the answer to everything [TS]

  that is the answer in the world of us bc [TS]

  which is let's make an adapter and so [TS]

  and so they did and patented it but you [TS]

  know decided not to ship it for whatever [TS]

  reason because maybe it's still kind of [TS]

  clunky or whatever anyway all this is to [TS]

  say that I wish instead of doing this [TS]

  adapter and going USBC everywhere and [TS]

  they're not shipping this adapter and [TS]

  leaving the third parties I wish they [TS]

  had come up with magsafe three magsafe [TS]

  is too big and clunky and your devices [TS]

  are getting thinner and thinner can you [TS]

  come up with some other solution that [TS]

  also uses magnets that has all the same [TS]

  advantages in it we haven't seen a [TS]

  patent for that but clearly nothing [TS]

  they've shipped reflects that anyway I'm [TS]

  saying as I miss magsafe and I wish it [TS]

  would come back and it seems like at [TS]

  least some contingent inside apple also [TS]

  misses magsafe because they tried to do [TS]

  something to bring it back if you're [TS]

  going to do magsafe on us bc the [TS]

  solution is not to have this weird [TS]

  little stick out like half inch long [TS]

  adapter that you need to also have with [TS]

  you or stick on your cables and have [TS]

  that breakaway know that that's like [TS]

  anything that involves like a rigid [TS]

  adapter against a USB port i think is [TS]

  not a good idea long-term because it's [TS]

  so easily just like you know breaks off [TS]

  in the port or something else like all [TS]

  those USB hubs that were designed first [TS]

  for the macbook one that like literally [TS]

  just like a [TS]

  hacks right next to it like flush [TS]

  against the case and have this big long [TS]

  hub down the side like that's just [TS]

  asking for to like to have your knee [TS]

  push against that or something and have [TS]

  the end of the cable snap off into the [TS]

  into the socket like anything like that [TS]

  I think is a bad idea and I think the [TS]

  the relative a mediocre reception of the [TS]

  Griffin thing that looks just like this [TS]

  is I think reinforcing of that to me if [TS]

  you're going to have this problem you [TS]

  have now which is you're not going to [TS]

  have a dedicated magnetic charging port [TS]

  anymore you're just gonna charge through [TS]

  any USBC port then you can't make them [TS]

  all magnetic because you know that's not [TS]

  how you SBC works but you can do an [TS]

  innovation that Microsoft figured out in [TS]

  2001 I think which is whenever the xbox [TS]

  one came out i don't mean the xbox o ne [TS]

  I mean the Xbox number one the first [TS]

  Xbox and that was you put the magnetic [TS]

  splitter thing a few inches away from [TS]

  the console in the cable you know in a [TS]

  similar location that many cables would [TS]

  have one of those you know drum like [TS]

  those drum shape like magnetic [TS]

  interference reducer things you know [TS]

  like you know a few inches from the [TS]

  connector head you have a little like [TS]

  breakaway thing that if you pull it the [TS]

  wrong way it opens up it's like magsafe [TS]

  you know six inches into a cable [TS]

  basically that worked great on the xbox [TS]

  and I'm sure you know it wouldn't be [TS]

  like the most like visually pristine [TS]

  thing but neither are these neither is [TS]

  like this road full of crazy adapters we [TS]

  have now the adapters are all ugly and [TS]

  stupid and clunky right so if you move [TS]

  it away from the port by a few inches [TS]

  onto the cable you have all the same [TS]

  safeties of Mac safe but you get it away [TS]

  from the laptop body it then works fine [TS]

  in any USBC port and it doesn't require [TS]

  the use of these little fragile adapters [TS]

  back when we talked about this [TS]

  originally this that's actually wasn't [TS]

  the most popular know that did you you [TS]

  did bring it up back then too because [TS]

  you have this absurd love for that huge [TS]

  console that was a great console the [TS]

  most common the most common thing that [TS]

  people brought up was the opposite of [TS]

  having having the magnetic thing at the [TS]

  other end like at the other far end [TS]

  rather than in the middle somewhere like [TS]

  it basically at the part where it plugs [TS]

  into the you know the white brick [TS]

  singing you know but I think both middle [TS]

  and the other end are worse solutions [TS]

  than just magsafe three on the on the [TS]

  laptop because middle and the other end [TS]

  are both much more likely to be in [TS]

  inaccessible places you know the end [TS]

  that's where the laptop is accessible [TS]

  because you can get at the laptop right [TS]

  you put a laptop on the desk you have to [TS]

  be able to reach the laptop to type on [TS]

  it and use the trackpad that means you [TS]

  can also reach the part where you plug [TS]

  and unplug you know the little plug [TS]

  thing and if it comes undone because [TS]

  something you know because you yank it [TS]

  or something knocks or whatever you just [TS]

  plug it right back in like and I think [TS]

  part of the experience max it makes good [TS]

  is not just the breakaway ability but [TS]

  that it is a pleasing way to connect and [TS]

  disconnect with a little magnet which is [TS]

  a frequent operations in frequently [TS]

  someone will trip over very frequently [TS]

  you will plug and unplug it and I think [TS]

  it's more pleasant to plot even just [TS]

  being able to yank it out to unplug it [TS]

  and not having to be careful or slide [TS]

  straight out or worried about bendings [TS]

  or whatever so that's part of what i [TS]

  love about Max Ava it's part of the [TS]

  reason why I don't like middle because [TS]

  who can get at the middle when someone [TS]

  does trip over and like some end of it [TS]

  is going to tuck behind something's [TS]

  gonna be a pain in the butt to try to [TS]

  find it again I don't like the other end [TS]

  because the other end is probably in a [TS]

  power brick it's either in a wall socket [TS]

  or at least close to it also harder to [TS]

  get to and middle is ugly because you [TS]

  know it's it's it's just jongup would [TS]

  never like it isn't the big bulge in the [TS]

  middle of things so I still come down [TS]

  strongly in favor of magsafe three as in [TS]

  have an actual magsafe port on the [TS]

  laptops and have a mattock site thing [TS]

  that plugs into it just make it a new [TS]

  size that fits in I mean if you make it [TS]

  the size of us bc then you're like well [TS]

  this will last as long as us bc does [TS]

  because it's soon as we're too thin for [TS]

  us pc we would've been in the same [TS]

  situation anyway but instead Apple has [TS]

  done nothing including not shipping this [TS]

  adapter and as Marco said the one that [TS]

  is out there does not get good reviews [TS]

  it doesn't mean that it's impossible to [TS]

  make a good adapter this means that one [TS]

  is not as good as real magsafe was we [TS]

  are sponsor this week by jammed now [TS]

  that's jamf calm / ATP for jam for now [TS]

  which helps you manage your Apple [TS]

  devices from anywhere now when you first [TS]

  start your business it's pretty easy to [TS]

  keep track of your own computer in your [TS]

  own phone but that doesn't really scale [TS]

  as you grow and as you start to buy more [TS]

  tech for your employees it gets a lot [TS]

  harder to keep track of everybody [TS]

  max iPhones and iPads figuring out how [TS]

  to secure for example the iPad that your [TS]

  sales rep just lost this can be tough [TS]

  especially when you're in different [TS]

  locations jammed now makes that and a [TS]

  lot more much easier you can configure [TS]

  settings you can protect sensitive [TS]

  information you can even lock or wipe [TS]

  devices remotely from anywhere jams now [TS]

  secures your stuff so you can focus on [TS]

  your business instead and this does not [TS]

  require any IT expertise it's incredibly [TS]

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  it the first three devices for free and [TS]

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  jam calm / ATP that's jamf calm / ATP [TS]

  thanks a lot to Jim for sponsoring our [TS]

  show so there was an interesting [TS]

  development today as we record this if [TS]

  i'm not mistaken which as you're [TS]

  listening to this might be like a week [TS]

  ago but today it was announced that it [TS]

  will it's official itunes podcasts is [TS]

  now Apple podcasts and there's new [TS]

  badges that you can use and so on and so [TS]

  forth and so Jason Snell has started to [TS]

  wonder is this the beginning of the end [TS]

  for iTunes and what does that really [TS]

  mean so I don't I don't I certainly [TS]

  don't know I can't say I would be bitter [TS]

  if itunes either went away or more [TS]

  accurately the app just got split up [TS]

  several ways but I mean this is some [TS]

  pretty heavy reading of the tea leaves [TS]

  what do you think Marco I mean this all [TS]

  might be leading to something big or it [TS]

  might just be like you know itunes is [TS]

  not as strong of a brand as it used to [TS]

  be anymore you know we like when they [TS]

  launched the new streaming music service [TS]

  they didn't call it new itunes music [TS]

  they call it apple music they just all [TS]

  this call the itunes music 2013 or [TS]

  whatever year was president and the next [TS]

  year this be called new itunes music [TS]

  exactly like you know it could be part [TS]

  of some part of you know like a big [TS]

  grand like [TS]

  toons deprecation plan where everything [TS]

  branded as iTunes is is being replaced [TS]

  by separate things and that would be [TS]

  cool that but I don't think this is [TS]

  evidence of that it might be you know it [TS]

  I think we will be able to look back at [TS]

  this in retrospect if that comes to pass [TS]

  and say oh that was the beginning of it [TS]

  but yeah right now I don't think we can [TS]

  really say anything except that we've [TS]

  been hearing rumblings for a while Apple [TS]

  is working on some kind of update stoop [TS]

  to their podcasting you know division or [TS]

  whatever and what and some of those are [TS]

  going to be enhancements for publishers [TS]

  most of which have been totally [TS]

  unspecified so far but we know that [TS]

  they're working on something for [TS]

  podcasts so this is just one step of [TS]

  that in all likelihood just the very [TS]

  first step of now it's Apple podcast to [TS]

  go along with Apple music I don't think [TS]

  this really means anything yet so I [TS]

  think this is kind of actually like a [TS]

  lagging as the wrong price not a lagging [TS]

  indicator but like that this change in [TS]

  branding from itunes podcast Apple [TS]

  podcast is actually something that's [TS]

  overdue like it is catching up to the [TS]

  reality and the reality is that on all [TS]

  these podcast sites whether you see the [TS]

  subscribe and overcast and subscribe in [TS]

  iTunes like that's the other little [TS]

  badge button and you would hit like that [TS]

  the iTunes brand being associated with [TS]

  podcast is past the point of being [TS]

  mostly nonsensical because itunes like [TS]

  we just know it because historically [TS]

  speaking the itunes podcast director was [TS]

  important for podcasting and it's also [TS]

  very important popular authoritative [TS]

  index of podcasts these days and it [TS]

  happened to hear versed in an [TS]

  application that we know as iTunes but [TS]

  that no longer has any relevance if it [TS]

  ever did to podcasts it barely has any [TS]

  relevance to music anymore which is why [TS]

  Apple music is called album music right [TS]

  that the iTunes brand in all its forms [TS]

  both in association with music in an [TS]

  application or association with a [TS]

  podcast or any other things that it is [TS]

  done doesn't make sense in the current [TS]

  Apple ecosystem and so to continue to [TS]

  have branding and promotional materials [TS]

  and website buttons and marketing [TS]

  communications and everything with the [TS]

  iTunes [TS]

  a minute isn't you know is not a good [TS]

  idea and they should have stopped doing [TS]

  it a long time ago and so now I think [TS]

  their branding is catching up with that [TS]

  I think their product should also [TS]

  eventually catch up with it as well like [TS]

  that has it has a lot on the on the [TS]

  phone there's still icons on the phone [TS]

  that say itunes but the fact that they [TS]

  broke up TV app and that apple TV is [TS]

  called you know Apple TV instead of ITV [TS]

  and that they have podcast broken out [TS]

  and you know like I said the rats are [TS]

  fleeing the sinking ship of itunes but [TS]

  they've been they've been leaving for a [TS]

  long long long time and eventually all [TS]

  that will be left is this weird bloated [TS]

  mac application like it might even leave [TS]

  you know iOS homescreen sweet and the [TS]

  only thing left will be the Mac [TS]

  application and that probably has the [TS]

  least resources to ever refactor it but [TS]

  I'm all for them both rebranding and [TS]

  restructuring this but even if they [TS]

  don't do that neva this is just simply [TS]

  simple rebranding exercise good because [TS]

  it's time to rebrand these things and to [TS]

  divorce them from itunes it's a name [TS]

  that doesn't have it the only [TS]

  connotations the name has for anybody [TS]

  who remembers it are like dated [TS]

  connotations like oh yeah I remember [TS]

  buying my first things in itunes anyway [TS]

  now I subscribe to Spotify and when I [TS]

  see itunes podcasts like podcasts kind [TS]

  of like that old thing I used to do with [TS]

  music doesn't make any sense so itunes [TS]

  has served Apple well but you know once [TS]

  Apple itself has switched its preeminent [TS]

  music service away from the iTunes brand [TS]

  that's the day the iTunes brand died and [TS]

  now all we're doing now is just you know [TS]

  letting the rest of the products catch [TS]

  up with it I mean I would say it was [TS]

  even earlier than that I would say like [TS]

  yeah like it did make sense to say for a [TS]

  podcast subscribe in iTunes in the early [TS]

  days of podcasting before there was all [TS]

  this mobile listening when you were [TS]

  mostly listening by literally [TS]

  subscribing in the itunes app on a mac [TS]

  or windows and syncing them to your ipod [TS]

  to listen to so that made sense then but [TS]

  i'm so painful than those it was really [TS]

  I was a bad time and it was great for [TS]

  the time you know in the sense like das [TS]

  was great for its time anyway so I hope [TS]

  it was great with the times I I can't [TS]

  here we go there we go so it like so [TS]

  here's the singing songs to my ipod [TS]

  back in the days like oh you've got your [TS]

  your iPod with a monochrome LCD screen [TS]

  and a click wheel or you know a [TS]

  mechanical spinning wheel like first gen [TS]

  ipod putting songs on that by connecting [TS]

  it with the firework able to your Mac [TS]

  and yet iTunes would see it and syncing [TS]

  things to it is clunky but that was like [TS]

  that was the tech the problem with [TS]

  podcasts is there are they are a [TS]

  regularly published thing like they're a [TS]

  feed it's not like you put your songs on [TS]

  your iPod you put your podcast in your [TS]

  ipod you have them there's never any [TS]

  putting your podcast in your iPod [TS]

  there's always more podcasts like every [TS]

  day of the week if you're subscribed to [TS]

  a lot of them whereas new songs aren't [TS]

  wrong arriving in your iTunes collection [TS]

  every day the week unless you spend a [TS]

  lot of your time buying music so it was [TS]

  so painful to know to have to constantly [TS]

  have this mental keep keeping your head [TS]

  the state of whatever is on your pot you [TS]

  know your iPod Oh when's the last time I [TS]

  synced it is the new episode of show X [TS]

  on there do I have to sync again did I [TS]

  remember to sync before I left the house [TS]

  it was a terrible fit and so I never [TS]

  remember liking it or as I remember [TS]

  definitely liking syncing music onto it [TS]

  maybe because my user collection again [TS]

  doesn't change that frequently but I [TS]

  never liked it with podcast and all I [TS]

  can remember is all the times that I was [TS]

  disappointed that I didn't have the most [TS]

  reviewssan episode of the show I wanted [TS]

  to listen to on my ipod at the time or [TS]

  you were like you were like about to run [TS]

  to the door you're like you lee about to [TS]

  be late for work imagine you can't spend [TS]

  a 20 minute itunes sync yeah i mentioned [TS]

  how many people in the world were [TS]

  collectively five minutes late to work [TS]

  during that time because they were [TS]

  waiting for their ipod to finish syncing [TS]

  the new podcast episodes and you [TS]

  couldn't tell just just put that one [TS]

  episode on it like nope gotta gotta do [TS]

  sinking it's gonna be a while is that [TS]

  five of seven stop yeah anyway so back [TS]

  it did make sense to say subscribe in [TS]

  iTunes for a podcast back then but [TS]

  because I ain't as you said like because [TS]

  the podcast brand was never really used [TS]

  on iOS like there was there is the [TS]

  itunes app but that's basically like the [TS]

  video and movie store right or like it's [TS]

  like how you can buy music videos and [TS]

  movies on the phone you know that's the [TS]

  only place that that the itunes name was [TS]

  ever used on iOS so to say subscribe in [TS]

  iTunes for a podcast now [TS]

  makes very little sense because what [TS]

  does that mean to anybody using a phone [TS]

  like almost all podcasts listening is [TS]

  happening on mobile these days Mobile [TS]

  has destroyed desktop and other [TS]

  listening you know almost everything [TS]

  happens on mobile so if you tell [TS]

  somebody with a podcast or if you tell [TS]

  pocket listener subscribe in iTunes [TS]

  there's a very good chance they don't [TS]

  know what you're talking about so I [TS]

  think this makes a lot of sense just as [TS]

  a thing that they probably should do for [TS]

  podcasts and I again I wouldn't read [TS]

  anything more into it than that because [TS]

  there might be something more to it but [TS]

  there's also a very good reason for them [TS]

  to have done it on their own we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by betterment [TS]

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  better peter beardsley wrote in probably [TS]

  18 years ago and he said a few years [TS]

  back when we use sales were slumping we [TS]

  were all doubting the future of Nintendo [TS]

  John said something along the lines of [TS]

  quote as long as there's still a viable [TS]

  market for dedicated game consoles [TS]

  nintendo can survive these days they [TS]

  seem to be doing more than just [TS]

  surviving breath of the wild oh this [TS]

  must not have been that long ago then [TS]

  breath of the wild is a fantastic game [TS]

  that turned me back into a believer [TS]

  taking into account Super Mario run the [TS]

  switch in breadth of the wild what grade [TS]

  would John assign the company is he [TS]

  bullish about Nintendo's future that [TS]

  means you're happy about it right i [TS]

  always get bearish or bullish backwards [TS]

  yeah anyway how does he feel about their [TS]

  upcoming paid online service which I [TS]

  didn't even know about well as the email [TS]

  finishes the people want to know and now [TS]

  I am one of the people so John how do [TS]

  you feel about Nintendo I had to give [TS]

  them a great i would still give them [TS]

  like a b-minus or so and here's why [TS]

  first of all the switch is still I mean [TS]

  it's doing doing well by all accounts [TS]

  but it's still too early to call because [TS]

  they're still in the afterglow of their [TS]

  launch which launched with one of the [TS]

  best games that Nintendo has ever made [TS]

  everyone loves breath of the wild [TS]

  universally good reviews I love it it's [TS]

  great um but doesn't have legs house [TS]

  how's it going to switch going to be [TS]

  selling like three or four years from [TS]

  now is it going to have the longevity [TS]

  that you would expect of a console in [TS]

  the past let alone the longevity of [TS]

  today's consoles which seemed to have [TS]

  second lives when you get like the ps4 [TS]

  pro and Scorpio and all that stuff where [TS]

  it's technically the same console but [TS]

  it's a bumped up version like it's [TS]

  extending the life like I give these [TS]

  consoles more time whereas the wii u did [TS]

  not have a long life it was not very [TS]

  successful the thing about the switch [TS]

  and breadth of the wild that that makes [TS]

  me downgrade their grade perhaps by a [TS]

  lot in terms of you know making [TS]

  dedicated game consoles is brought the [TS]

  wild was the game that was originally [TS]

  announced for the wii u and it was [TS]

  developed with wii u specific features [TS]

  so like there would be stuff on the [TS]

  gamepad and also stuff on the TV screen [TS]

  and motion control for the aiming and [TS]

  also show us stuff like that and because [TS]

  of the short life of the wii u and [TS]

  because of the rapid rapid necessary [TS]

  development of its replacement the [TS]

  switch nintendo had to change things [TS]

  around and take out the wii u they [TS]

  didn't have to do this was what i did [TS]

  take out the wii u specific features for [TS]

  the wii u version because they don't [TS]

  want the wii u version to seem like it's [TS]

  the better version [TS]

  they want you know you want to switch [TS]

  version to be the better version and the [TS]

  switch doesn't have a separate gamepad [TS]

  in TV although if they had designed [TS]

  differently could have because you've [TS]

  got all the hardware there but it [TS]

  doesn't it's got if you put it in his [TS]

  little cradle you can see on TV and if [TS]

  you hold it on your hand that's where it [TS]

  is you don't have a to screen experience [TS]

  with switch for this game and so breath [TS]

  of the wild as fantastic as it is could [TS]

  have been a ps4 game and the exact same [TS]

  game it would have better graphics and a [TS]

  better frame rate it could have been a [TS]

  ps4 game and that has not been true for [TS]

  the most part of Nintendo's breakout [TS]

  hits in the modern era then intend to 64 [TS]

  and mario 64 and the analog stick like [TS]

  that is all of a piece you cannot put [TS]

  out Mario 64 on the SNES or Sega Genesis [TS]

  or you know anything like that because [TS]

  the whole game is designed around not [TS]

  just 3d hardware but also the [TS]

  controllers and other act like the [TS]

  hardware the software went together to [TS]

  provide the innovative experience Wii is [TS]

  an obvious much more modern example the [TS]

  wii doesn't exist about the hardware its [TS]

  hardware and software together the [TS]

  Gamecube I would say is Apple's most [TS]

  technologically successful traditional [TS]

  console and that it was just playing a [TS]

  good competitive powerful console with a [TS]

  good controller at a good price well [TS]

  designed for profitability just you know [TS]

  straight down the middle like basically [TS]

  what Microsoft has always done with its [TS]

  consoles right in recent years starting [TS]

  with the wii though Nintendo has been [TS]

  making less powerful consoles and trying [TS]

  to concentrate and innovate in other [TS]

  areas and the switch is certainly [TS]

  innovative with its portable and [TS]

  non-portable you know that advancement [TS]

  but that advancement does not dictate so [TS]

  far for the most part a particular [TS]

  gameplay experience especially since you [TS]

  I don't even know if you're allowed to [TS]

  do this but especially since the games [TS]

  that have been released so far don't say [TS]

  you can only play this important mode [TS]

  because it requires a touchscreen [TS]

  they're also playable on the television [TS]

  which means you can't make a game that [TS]

  requires a touchscreen that is also able [TS]

  to be played on the TV and then it's no [TS]

  longer a switch is just a portable game [TS]

  right maybe [TS]

  nintendo will allow people to do that [TS]

  eventually but as far as I'm aware for [TS]

  now there now I don't feel good always [TS]

  just say that I haven't seen any synergy [TS]

  between software and the hardware which [TS]

  means Nintendo's the advantage I was [TS]

  talking about Nintendo like as long as [TS]

  they there's a market for a decade game [TS]

  consoles content Nintendo can be [TS]

  successful and survive because then they [TS]

  can do that thing that Nintendo has [TS]

  always done which is make an amazing [TS]

  product that requires a synergy of [TS]

  hardware and software somewhat like [TS]

  Apple has you know they had a reputation [TS]

  for doing over the many years but breath [TS]

  Laval could have been a ps4 game I'm [TS]

  probably would've been better on ps4 and [TS]

  I would have been happier if breath of [TS]

  the wild ran on hardware that was more [TS]

  powerful now that's just me some people [TS]

  may want a really good portable system [TS]

  in which case they don't want breath [TS]

  awhile and ps4 they want on switch [TS]

  because they love playing it in a [TS]

  portable thing on the go and you know [TS]

  upstairs in the bed or whatever like [TS]

  that makes it a successful handheld but [TS]

  again doesn't say anything specific [TS]

  about it other than like you know why [TS]

  couldn't have been a cut sorry Sony I [TS]

  can't remember the name of your stupid [TS]

  most recent handheld that is not [TS]

  successful chat room what the hell is [TS]

  the aveda it's all right the NSX no no [TS]

  the vita play playstation vita and did [TS]

  they have what was the one after the [TS]

  vida god I can't even keep track this [TS]

  lag is killing me I think the Vita [TS]

  smells reason anyway people who love the [TS]

  hand help they're you know they're thin [TS]

  handhelds before now I understand the [TS]

  switch thing being able to take off the [TS]

  little controls and use them separately [TS]

  so there is some innovation there but it [TS]

  doesn't have the same synergy with with [TS]

  the games as other stuff is that it [TS]

  doesn't mean it's not going to this is [TS]

  very early days saying that you know new [TS]

  games are going to come out all the time [TS]

  I'll see how they go and there you know [TS]

  the switch is successful people like it [TS]

  the software is good it can still be a [TS]

  successful product but my personal grade [TS]

  for it is that they are not they are not [TS]

  competitive with the two other big [TS]

  consoles the new tenant was always an [TS]

  also-ran because they make less powerful [TS]

  hardware and within the realm of less [TS]

  powerful hardware their track record of [TS]

  being able to make innovations that have [TS]

  profound effects on gameplay and vice [TS]

  versa has been hit-or-miss over the [TS]

  years and the switch is kind of like a [TS]

  base hit in that people like it and it [TS]

  does what it's supposed to do well [TS]

  but it seems like it is just a way for [TS]

  you to play the same old console games [TS]

  that you could always play portably and [TS]

  on [TS]

  on [TS]

  TV which is it's an innovation is that's [TS]

  what people like about it like I don't [TS]

  have to choose between some cut down [TS]

  portable game versus a full fledge TV [TS]

  one but that innovation is succeeds by [TS]

  being somewhere in the middle it's not [TS]

  as good on the TV is the dedicated TV [TS]

  consoles but it's better portably than [TS]

  some of the weaker powered portable [TS]

  consoles also still may my Nintendo like [TS]

  the 3ds so it you know it may be the [TS]

  right product at the right time and [TS]

  certainly I think we can all say that it [TS]

  has a brighter future as far as anyone [TS]

  can tell them that we you did and the [TS]

  wii u was arguing much more arguably [TS]

  much more innovative it just you know [TS]

  the game sort of never materialized but [TS]

  i think this launch and the fact they [TS]

  had to make the switch in the fact that [TS]

  they have the cut out the features from [TS]

  the wii u version so it didn't appear to [TS]

  be the better version of the game than [TS]

  the switch version are all kind of [TS]

  disappointing markers of this difficult [TS]

  period in tendo's history but I'm glad [TS]

  they're I'm glad they're recovering [TS]

  after the wii u and i'm glad the switch [TS]

  does appear to be more successful I wish [TS]

  them all the success in the world I just [TS]

  wish they would the product that I want [TS]

  them to make is not the switch but if [TS]

  the switch if the switch is what they [TS]

  have to make for me to get breath of the [TS]

  wild to make them successful again you [TS]

  know I can live with it but that's what [TS]

  I'm giving them like a bb- so far you [TS]

  know it's funny you say that because [TS]

  when the switch first came out well when [TS]

  we talked about the Sun when the promo [TS]

  video or teaser video whatever was came [TS]

  out I was like wow that looks are [TS]

  actually really cool and then when it [TS]

  first came out I thought you know it [TS]

  still looks really cool and then I've [TS]

  played with with my sister in laws and [TS]

  with some friends of ours a couple of [TS]

  times very briefly wow it's pretty cool [TS]

  and for the last month or however long [TS]

  it's been out I've been trying to [TS]

  convince myself that I don't play games [TS]

  anymore which is accurate that the last [TS]

  time I bought a console I played it for [TS]

  a couple of months and never touched it [TS]

  again which is accurate and thus there [TS]

  is no reason to spend a whole bunch of [TS]

  money on a switch which I will probably [TS]

  use for a month and then never use again [TS]

  which I presume to be accurate that [TS]

  being said just earlier tonight I [TS]

  realized the super useful website I [TS]

  stock now which I knew is tracking Apple [TS]

  inventory for things like air pods and [TS]

  whatnot they actually track inventory [TS]

  for the switch and I am strongly [TS]

  considering making a trip to a [TS]

  neighboring town to pick up a switch for [TS]

  myself tomorrow and no [TS]

  well part because I know I'm going to [TS]

  have a couple long plane rides my future [TS]

  and that seems like it'd be a really [TS]

  great way to spend some time on the [TS]

  plane and so here it is I am the [TS]

  antithesis of a typical console buyer is [TS]

  which is to say i don't buy consoles I [TS]

  don't tend to play video games and I [TS]

  feel like this console was made for me [TS]

  it may be like it's a successful vida oh [TS]

  it's a lot of people that's how they're [TS]

  viewing it like it is the best portable [TS]

  system ever had because the games on it [TS]

  are so amazing compared to I mean get [TS]

  credit there it's being pulled up the [TS]

  average by having breath of the wild on [TS]

  it but you know it's it's like imagine [TS]

  if there was a portable system we got [TS]

  the best first party titles from one of [TS]

  the best first party developers in the [TS]

  world that's the switch but I'm not [TS]

  interested in a portable so that doesn't [TS]

  really help me much but it doesn't mean [TS]

  the product is potentially more [TS]

  appealing than the wii u which had to [TS]

  sit in this weird metal ground but yeah [TS]

  I and I'm surprised that you are into [TS]

  playing in an affordable in the because [TS]

  you have pretty big hands as well and i [TS]

  find the size of it is not not conducive [TS]

  to my hands obviously i have our eyes I [TS]

  issues on top of everything else but it [TS]

  just feels a little bit awkward and I've [TS]

  been playing with the the Nintendo pro [TS]

  controller and it's no gamecube [TS]

  controller but it's okay for a [TS]

  controller that doesn't have an [TS]

  octagonal surround around the analog [TS]

  sticks and thinks all the buttons are [TS]

  equally important it's okay like it's [TS]

  not it's not great but I like it I like [TS]

  it better than the Wii U pro controller [TS]

  which maybe isn't saying much but it's [TS]

  something great episode of hyper [TS]

  critical or greatest episode of hyper [TS]

  critical it was an episode that exists [TS]

  oh wow worst you are the worst which [TS]

  episode was that you know offhand yeah I [TS]

  know I don't know pinching the harmonica [TS]

  it's classic but you don't know an [TS]

  episode dumped in in the 50s and the [TS]

  52nd I guess all right I'll look it up [TS]

  you google for syracuse of pinching the [TS]

  harmonica it's gonna be then upon hit i [TS]

  guarantee you this sounds like a [TS]

  dangerous query i don't know if i'll [TS]

  yeah don't do an image search just [TS]

  regular tech sergeant you'll find it 49 [TS]

  you were very close and we caught you [TS]

  saying your own name twice in the last [TS]

  week caught me is this a secret [TS]

  yes I say I'll say it all day say all [TS]

  night all day except that whenever when [TS]

  you were having like a whole episode of [TS]

  wreckage about how no one presses your [TS]

  name right you never said I just don't [TS]

  want to encourage him yeah yeah you [TS]

  can't give him what he wants you know is [TS]

  incorrigible yeah that's a poor Merlin [TS]

  mmm don't don't you give him your pity [TS]

  he does not deserve it we are with your [TS]

  bad cop today aren't you that's how this [TS]

  is uh goodness all right so Marco what [TS]

  do you think about the switch i mean i [TS]

  know that tiff has has gotten herself [TS]

  one or well maybe it was for you but [TS]

  it's effectively hers i remember what [TS]

  the back story was but like have you [TS]

  played it at all it would remind me what [TS]

  your scenario is with that i played the [TS]

  wipeout clone for a few minutes and that [TS]

  was fun that's right that's right yeah [TS]

  but that's it so far I expect to play [TS]

  mario kart probably quite a bit amen [TS]

  brother but that's what that is not [TS]

  until you know this month i think so and [TS]

  also the boy oh boy oh tariffs which I [TS]

  know from my sega days as dr. robotnik's [TS]

  mean bean machine tetris i will probably [TS]

  be enjoying that as well when that comes [TS]

  out which i believe is also around mario [TS]

  kart time and then whenever there's ever [TS]

  a mario game for it i will like that if [TS]

  there's ever a virtual console that [TS]

  allows me to catch up a little bit on [TS]

  previous Mario games as we previously [TS]

  discussed I would like that but [TS]

  otherwise you know yeah I'm not that [TS]

  into it because I'm not that into games [TS]

  I'm I'm like you but I've already bought [TS]

  it and I've realized that there is a [TS]

  Merry game coming by the way in case [TS]

  you're wondering they're actually there [TS]

  it totally is one as yeah but it's a [TS]

  three days one I don't I don't like [TS]

  those are the real ones now no yeah but [TS]

  it's a 3d everyone else is saying [TS]

  finally a real Mara game instead of one [TS]

  of these and one of these nostalgic [TS]

  throwback 2.5 g things ya know that's [TS]

  what i want more 2.5 d to me like that's [TS]

  what mario games are like the 3d ones [TS]

  always felt like they were they were [TS]

  good games but they didn't feel like [TS]

  mario games to me they felt like a [TS]

  different thing you're so stuck in the [TS]

  past no it's just no I know you like you [TS]

  too d games you're playing through sonic [TS]

  for crying out loud like you I know you [TS]

  like to debug I i love the 3d ones [TS]

  better and i think [TS]

  they're just it's a different kind of [TS]

  game yeah I suppose I mean I I was [TS]

  surprised by how I talked about this on [TS]

  I think it was on rectus how games that [TS]

  I loved in the 2d era made the [TS]

  transition to 3d and I and I still love [TS]

  them even though like you said it is [TS]

  totally don't really like Zelda and 2d [TS]

  versus eldon 3d very different [TS]

  mechanically visually like so many [TS]

  things about or different and Mario same [TS]

  thing yet I still feel like this is a [TS]

  through-line I still feel like it's the [TS]

  same game the same kind of feeling the [TS]

  difference is that once they went 3d I [TS]

  couldn't go back to the 2d once anymore [TS]

  it's like well why would I want to just [TS]

  jump up and down to D I want I want to [TS]

  jump up and down the three year old it [TS]

  to me just like it'sit's such different [TS]

  mechanics like you know certain games [TS]

  like back in the like 8 and 16-bit era [TS]

  racing games like like mario kart for [TS]

  super nintendo play that game for so [TS]

  long it was such a great game but [TS]

  fundamentally you were really navigating [TS]

  a 3d world it just happened to be [TS]

  rendered and crude 2d that was trying to [TS]

  approximate but there's a lot of tapping [TS]

  because you didn't have analog sticks so [TS]

  tapping was all about tapping the d-pad [TS]

  right but the point is like you know [TS]

  translating mario kart from 2d to 3d [TS]

  just made it better it didn't it didn't [TS]

  like fundamentally produce a different [TS]

  kind of game it just you know you were [TS]

  already conceptually moving in 3d and it [TS]

  just made it better but a platform game [TS]

  is an incredibly different playing game [TS]

  between 2d and 3d everything you can do [TS]

  is totally different a lot of 2d stuff [TS]

  does not work in 3d and vice versa so it [TS]

  is a totally different kind of game and [TS]

  what made me so sad during the 32 and [TS]

  64-bit console era was that all of my [TS]

  favorite 2d franchises were basically [TS]

  killed off for like 10 years while they [TS]

  made 3d versions and that was fine but [TS]

  that wasn't it wasn't the same thing i [TS]

  know i've had this rank before recently [TS]

  i'll stop it here but 2d Mario and 3d [TS]

  Mario are different games and for a [TS]

  while they didn't continue both and I'm [TS]

  glad they in recent years have continued [TS]

  to both and I would love to play some of [TS]

  those new to slash 2.5 d Mario games and [TS]

  buy new I just mean made after the 90s [TS]

  so I know they're not new anymore for [TS]

  gamers but for me they would be new and [TS]

  I would love to play them but I [TS]

  wouldn't love to play them enough to go [TS]

  like buy a Wii U or something so I'm [TS]

  hoping they come to virtual console and [TS]

  a switch in some form so you said that [TS]

  they're totally different games I [TS]

  understand what you're saying in terms [TS]

  is like mechanically speaking but the [TS]

  reason I feel like there's a through [TS]

  line is not so much like how do you [TS]

  control it and what is it you know what [TS]

  is on the screen and like you know how [TS]

  does the game work but sort of the I [TS]

  don't know this I don't say the spirit [TS]

  of the game but like Mario is about [TS]

  running and jumping that that you are [TS]

  exercising your athletic ability this [TS]

  little character it's going to navigate [TS]

  the world that's full of hazzard full of [TS]

  things that you touch to kill you pits [TS]

  that you fall into enemies that hurt you [TS]

  when they touch you and you are running [TS]

  and jumping and I feel like Mario 3d [TS]

  captured more than any game that had [TS]

  tried to do a similar thing before it [TS]

  and just why it's such an important game [TS]

  captured the fun of running and jumping [TS]

  what is fun about running around and [TS]

  jumping that's and yes it's totally [TS]

  different you're in 3d space the whole [TS]

  rules of the world are different like [TS]

  it's not like you know you you live if [TS]

  you're traveling downward on the enemy [TS]

  but if you're traveling up or do you die [TS]

  like all this all the mechanics of the [TS]

  old game every rule system every sort of [TS]

  how it controls in the air how run works [TS]

  you know holding down be to run like all [TS]

  that stuff went away and was replaced [TS]

  with something entirely different and [TS]

  yet I still feel like this is a game [TS]

  about the joy of running and jumping [TS]

  same thing with Zelda which was about [TS]

  exploring a world big scary dangerous [TS]

  world that you don't understand that you [TS]

  know that goes on for a long distance [TS]

  that you have to slowly discover the [TS]

  mysteries of and collect items and [TS]

  become more powerful and eventually [TS]

  solve you know solve a mystery and [TS]

  defeat an enemy and complete a story and [TS]

  the change to 3d was like you thought [TS]

  exploring was fun in 2d it's even more [TS]

  fun when it's 3d with better graphics [TS]

  and breath the wilds as you thought it [TS]

  was fun exploring like the idea of [TS]

  exploring well this world is humongous [TS]

  and you're exploring is no longer [TS]

  constrained in the way as it used to be [TS]

  all those games feel like yes Zelda is [TS]

  about exploration and conquest and [TS]

  mystery [TS]

  and you know defeating an enemy and [TS]

  story and that that's the through-line I [TS]

  see even though mechanically speaking [TS]

  the game is varied a lot so I think it [TS]

  really depends on what you were what [TS]

  part of the game you were there for if [TS]

  you were there for the mechanics and the [TS]

  mechanics change when it's like well [TS]

  this is a different game but if you were [TS]

  there for the joy of running and jumping [TS]

  in this in this new game in 3d even more [TS]

  thoroughly embodies the joy of running [TS]

  and jumping that you will like the 3d [TS]

  games so obviously you know were side of [TS]

  that I'm on and that I think I'm at the [TS]

  point where i can say i didn't even like [TS]

  the mechanics of a 2d once it's just [TS]

  that was the best incarnation of a game [TS]

  that made it you know that did you got [TS]

  to experience the fun i'm running around [TS]

  and jumping and then when they went to [TS]

  3d i just discarded the 2d I'm like well [TS]

  I get more of that here but if you like [TS]

  the 2d mechanics the 3d one has nothing [TS]

  for years waiting for 2.5 d games did [TS]

  you guys play f0 on the Super Nintendo [TS]

  oh yeah mostly looking at markup or on [TS]

  the n64 frame lock at 60 frames per [TS]

  second yeah it looked awesome 60 like [TS]

  there there were basically no polygons [TS]

  but it looked awesome mm-hmm that's the [TS]

  right trade-off for that game yeah i [TS]

  would say i just i love that game so [TS]

  done much my goodness did i love that [TS]

  game i will say they're like I one of [TS]

  the reasons why I've always liked [TS]

  wipeout and mario kart is that racing [TS]

  games are fun but racing games with [TS]

  weapons are a lot more fun that was one [TS]

  thing I was missed with f0 like it [TS]

  always like I enjoyed going really fast [TS]

  and stuff but i wanted to occasionally [TS]

  be able to fire a missile at kc I [TS]

  couldn't do that oh and speaking of [TS]

  games like we were playing because I'm [TS]

  still playing breath about obviously and [TS]

  I got the chance to try out the thing [TS]

  that I was suggesting Marco try out but [TS]

  that he said he tried and didn't like [TS]

  which is breath of the wild as [TS]

  essentially a party game we had some [TS]

  company over I me like you know a couple [TS]

  of adults and and their kids and all of [TS]

  us just sitting in the same room playing [TS]

  breath of the wild which is a single [TS]

  player game together as a party game [TS]

  because especially if you have someone [TS]

  who's you have the person who ostensibly [TS]

  controlling the game but then you have [TS]

  an entire room full of poo or have [TS]

  opinion [TS]

  what should be done next or what you [TS]

  should try or just you know laughing at [TS]

  the results of the most recent [TS]

  experiment because even just playing [TS]

  brother the wild single player is a [TS]

  constant series of distractions just try [TS]

  progressing the story quest you can't do [TS]

  it because it's like what's that over [TS]

  there Oh what's this all I want to do [TS]

  this and you'll find yourself 20 degrees [TS]

  removed from what you thought you were [TS]

  doing and you're having fun the whole [TS]

  time if you have a room full of people [TS]

  who are also engaged with that even [TS]

  though none of them are actually playing [TS]

  telling you spotting something out the [TS]

  corner there I you didn't see or getting [TS]

  excited about something that happened or [TS]

  giving you a suggestion about something [TS]

  to try it worked very well maybe it [TS]

  wouldn't work well as you could deep [TS]

  into the game people start to suss out [TS]

  what the mechanics are but for a roomful [TS]

  of people half of which had never even [TS]

  seen breath of the wild it was hilarious [TS]

  and fun and the most fun I've had quote [TS]

  unquote playing a video game in a large [TS]

  group even though yet one person had the [TS]

  controller and it was not me in a long [TS]

  time and that's what I'm suggesting [TS]

  Marco do with when tip is playing but [TS]

  apparently he's still just bored and [TS]

  falls asleep and Adam is her co-pilot [TS]

  well to be honest Marco's about to fall [TS]

  asleep anyway that's true for different [TS]

  reasons this is before he went to [TS]

  Ireland he was still falling asleep on [TS]

  my couch he's an old man he's got a [TS]

  beard now he just like it put him on the [TS]

  couch in three seconds later his eyes [TS]

  are closing he's snoring and then you [TS]

  wake up he says I was just resting my [TS]

  eyes thanks for three sponsors this week [TS]

  betterment jammed and mail route and we [TS]

  will see you next week now the show is [TS]

  over they didn't even mean to be [TS]

  cuz it was accidental oh it was [TS]

  accidental John didn't do any research [TS]

  Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

  cuz it was accidentally it was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes at acp FM and if you're into [TS]

  twitter you can follow them at cas eyl [TS]

  ISS so that's Casey list and AR 0 a RM [TS]

  Angie Marco Arment why are they see us [TS]

  at Syracuse [TS]

  let's talk about something really [TS]

  important let's talk about WWDC lunches [TS]

  and indescribable detail so this came up [TS]

  a couple of shows ago I forget exactly [TS]

  how but I guess was when we were talking [TS]

  about the change from moscone to [TS]

  wherever we are in san jose and one of [TS]

  us might have been me brought up the WBC [TS]

  lunches and i think the two of you kind [TS]

  of immediately poo-pooed them and I said [TS]

  oh really they're not that bad and I [TS]

  think John made a joke about all we [TS]

  should talk about that in great detail [TS]

  another time and and it turns out John [TS]

  wasn't entirely joking and a better man [TS]

  would not bring this up and say it's a [TS]

  stupid idea but I am NOT that man and [TS]

  I'm anxious to talk about WBC lunches [TS]

  great yeah so this is isaac Goward I [TS]

  have scoured the internet so just just [TS]

  to be clear we are talking about the [TS]

  conference center box lunches for an [TS]

  event that is no longer happening in [TS]

  that conference center and will no [TS]

  longer have this particular box lunch [TS]

  series and also the event itself is not [TS]

  happening for another almost two months [TS]

  from now and this is what we're talking [TS]

  about right now I love you guys so much [TS]

  two shows worth of mac pro stuff made [TS]

  casey willing to talk about literally [TS]

  anything else literally anything or [TS]

  since I've just finished Parks and Rec I [TS]

  will talk about literally anything right [TS]

  now are you a mac pro anyway uh so John [TS]

  wanted to tell us about WBC box lunches [TS]

  yeah so I we were just came up in the [TS]

  talking about the conference and things [TS]

  that are good and bad about maybe we [TS]

  were talking about odwalla and stuff [TS]

  like that and here's the thing about [TS]

  debussy it's a expensive conference is [TS]

  expensive to put on I'm sure it's in an [TS]

  expensive city things in conference [TS]

  centers if you've never put on a [TS]

  conference yourself or talk to any who [TS]

  has are absurdly expensive much more [TS]

  expensive than you think they are [TS]

  because there's a lot of other costs [TS]

  built into them Apple usually has I [TS]

  think in general pretty good food and [TS]

  drink options especially considering the [TS]

  scale I'm [TS]

  is not like 50,000 people like you know [TS]

  a really giant convention but 5,000 [TS]

  people there's nothing to sneeze that if [TS]

  you're trying to give snacks and drinks [TS]

  5,000 people it's really easy to cheap [TS]

  out an apple in general tries to do [TS]

  better they have like donuts and [TS]

  danishes switcher you know reasonable [TS]

  quality don'ts ninja some of them [TS]

  actually like like Marco mention is [TS]

  usually one that's really good i think a [TS]

  lot of them are actually really good i [TS]

  have no idea how the coffee is i don't [TS]

  drink it the bagels are garbage well you [TS]

  know in San Francisco come on obviously [TS]

  you do get bagels no west coast for the [TS]

  drinks when they had our wall eyeball is [TS]

  fairly expensive I think high quality [TS]

  beverage it's not like they're putting [TS]

  out RC Cola for everybody right [TS]

  apologies to the rsf fence so I think as [TS]

  far as conference goes like they're [TS]

  certainly not really the top of the heap [TS]

  maybe they're not even above average for [TS]

  this view these things I just listened [TS]

  but they're they're about average I've [TS]

  definitely been to conferences that have [TS]

  much better food but also much much [TS]

  worse so I think I think they're doing [TS]

  okay for all those things by the way all [TS]

  those things and also like fresh fruit [TS]

  and other stuff that you get out in the [TS]

  hallways pretty good also probably [TS]

  astronomically expensive if you were to [TS]

  add up like how much does this one [TS]

  muffin i picked up costs Apple you know [TS]

  oh great $27 for this muffin yum yum yum [TS]

  doesn't make it taste any better but [TS]

  it's not to get the scale of the cost [TS]

  much more expensive than you think but [TS]

  then we come to the lunches and the [TS]

  lunches are not at any different scale [TS]

  than anything else because when they put [TS]

  out like the snack foods and the things [TS]

  like when you're lining up to get into [TS]

  presidio for the keynote every every one [TS]

  of those 5,000 people or however many [TS]

  people are there take something from [TS]

  there like the food goes it's not as if [TS]

  it's you know that the lunch is it 10 [TS]

  times bigger than the snacks they put [TS]

  out enough snacks and enough drinks for [TS]

  all the people who are in the conference [TS]

  if they wanted them all right and so [TS]

  lunch is the same deal a lot of people [TS]

  go out to lunch you know the same kind [TS]

  of ratio I'm not sure what happens for [TS]

  the lunch food because it's the same [TS]

  problem how do you feed a reasonable [TS]

  quality product to a large group of [TS]

  people right so you have all the same [TS]

  problems of scale and you know packaged [TS]

  food versus freshly made you know or all [TS]

  the same problems yet somehow for lunch [TS]

  in particular they they blow it they [TS]

  they are well below average even below [TS]

  Apple's own average for example if you [TS]

  have ever been to an apple tech talk I [TS]

  think the food the Tech Talks is better [TS]

  then this lunch food maybe because it's [TS]

  not i think even the lunches are they [TS]

  give similar little box lunches so [TS]

  anyway this is what the lunch is like [TS]

  you line up with everybody else and you [TS]

  a crest across a big series of tables [TS]

  they can do good job with traffic flow [TS]

  like you know the lines move its [TS]

  massively distributed it's a parallel [TS]

  architecture kind of like altivec for [TS]

  the old folks you know single [TS]

  instruction multiple developer alright [TS]

  and as lots of tables with maybe three [TS]

  choices you got the chicken the beef and [TS]

  the vegetarian option and there's a [TS]

  bunch of plastic clear plastic boxes [TS]

  that have three areas in them there's [TS]

  the main area where they going to put [TS]

  the main part of your lunch there's one [TS]

  little corner of the thing that is kind [TS]

  of like a dessert ething and there's [TS]

  like a side dish thing and somehow they [TS]

  manage to find the most inappropriate [TS]

  things to put inside this vessel but [TS]

  their most common failure mode is to [TS]

  pick something that needs to be crispy [TS]

  or dry in some way and to put it inside [TS]

  this container that traps moisture so [TS]

  that whatever your sandwich or piece of [TS]

  bread or whatever thing is sitting it is [TS]

  next to some wet side dish or something [TS]

  it seeps into the bread and there's [TS]

  nothing worse than picking up a sandwich [TS]

  that has been sitting there in liquid [TS]

  for a long period of time before you got [TS]

  to it same thing with any any kind of [TS]

  bread that requires freshness or [TS]

  staleness or whatever to you know not [TS]

  not being stale to be good that that is [TS]

  that the crux of making this dish good [TS]

  and you get it with some kind of [TS]

  styrofoam like bread substance on it or [TS]

  putting spreads on like putting like [TS]

  mustard or mayonnaise or other kind of [TS]

  wet spreads on the bread but putting [TS]

  them directly against the bread instead [TS]

  of in between the layers so they soak [TS]

  into the bread and for the side dishes [TS]

  not much you can do with side dishes [TS]

  because it's got to be it's room [TS]

  temperature it's not hot but they will [TS]

  very often put side dishes that should [TS]

  be hot in a room temperature container [TS]

  which is the wrong thing to be putting [TS]

  their and the desserts like that's such [TS]

  an easy win just give us a damn [TS]

  chocolate chip cookie put a piece of [TS]

  choc cake in there it's not hard like [TS]

  these things keep you know you can buy [TS]

  prepackaged ones put it put two chips [TS]

  too high in like you would kill a [TS]

  certain point you would kill for chips [TS]

  ahoy and [TS]

  said these are like these handmade like [TS]

  supposed to be sugary sweet confections [TS]

  that are it tastes like you know tastes [TS]

  like ashes in your mouth like they're [TS]

  just they're just terrible little [TS]

  squares of potentially sweet thing again [TS]

  also alternately stale and soggy and [TS]

  there's no reason there's no reason to [TS]

  try to make an artisanal perfect [TS]

  beautiful complicated sophisticated [TS]

  thing you gotta put in foods that taste [TS]

  good and will keep and that's what they [TS]

  do on the outside like donuts keep [TS]

  dangers keep right a banana keeps auto [TS]

  ball in the container keeps but when it [TS]

  comes to lunch they feel like they're [TS]

  trying to make Lacey's beautifully [TS]

  prepared chef's dishes and then [TS]

  shoveling went to plastic and let them [TS]

  just do there and it is a terrible [TS]

  terrible experience and I say this is [TS]

  someone who has had probably more box [TS]

  lunches on average than most attendees [TS]

  who wEDC because I get the BOK lunch [TS]

  pretty much every day because I don't [TS]

  want to go out and have to come back I [TS]

  just want to run down there quickly get [TS]

  my lunch eat it and then go get in line [TS]

  for the next thing so I eat all these [TS]

  things but sometimes even I with you [TS]

  know in a hurry to be your tell attorney [TS]

  just can't make it just can't make it [TS]

  through the food and you just sometimes [TS]

  you just take one for full that side [TS]

  dish you like all right that's no that's [TS]

  it I'm done and eat half of the soggy [TS]

  sandwich or you just leave the bottom [TS]

  half of the sandwich down there and you [TS]

  just eat the top half or and I wish I [TS]

  could remember I should have record [TS]

  these in film sometimes they don't do [TS]

  sandwiches sometimes is other kind of [TS]

  lunch things sometimes just literally [TS]

  inedible it's like there's there's no [TS]

  food to be had here this was I don't [TS]

  know what this is even supposed to be [TS]

  here be dragons tastes terrible it looks [TS]

  terrible it has to be eaten with a fork [TS]

  out of this little container and I feel [TS]

  like I'm like a spaceship eating in one [TS]

  of those you know space food that comes [TS]

  out of a tube or something so my topic [TS]

  was so worth it anybody's I actually [TS]

  don't think they're that bad like [TS]

  nothing you said is wrong I'm not [TS]

  disagreeing with anything said I just [TS]

  think I'm less bothered by it generally [TS]

  speaking i find the sandwiches to be [TS]

  perfectly acceptable they are not great [TS]

  i'm even hard-pressed to say they're [TS]

  good they're just fine i don't typically [TS]

  run into the bread sogginess problem but [TS]

  again I agree with what you said that [TS]

  they definitely pair things that that [TS]

  will create bread sogginess vortex [TS]

  so you are not wrong and also likelihood [TS]

  the quality of the ingredients between [TS]

  the brit like whatever they put their [TS]

  whether it's a cold cut or a piece of [TS]

  chicken or some arugula or let us it's [TS]

  always like the most the worst form of [TS]

  that so if it's chicken the chicken is [TS]

  just dry as chalk if it is lettuce [TS]

  lettuce is completely wilted you know if [TS]

  it's ham the ham tastes like it's [TS]

  entirely made of filler and like a pig [TS]

  walk by at once I can't continue up dead [TS]

  I like so I'm with in case like I don't [TS]

  actually like you know I've also eaten a [TS]

  lot of these not as many as John has [TS]

  died I will usually try to escape the [TS]

  conference center for lunch at least a [TS]

  couple of the days but I've eaten a good [TS]

  number of them and it's me there they're [TS]

  always not great but they're always [TS]

  better than I expect them to be you know [TS]

  I because I I look at them and I have [TS]

  very low expectations because they are [TS]

  these like you know mass-produced [TS]

  clearly well ahead of time is usually [TS]

  there aren't room temperature cold like [TS]

  the whole box is cold so they were they [TS]

  were usually you know I was interested [TS]

  in a fridge for a few hours between [TS]

  preparation or level weeks you know or [TS]

  manufacturing I guess but anyway I you [TS]

  know they're they're always to me like [TS]

  about the quality of like to like [TS]

  modern-day air airplane food on a decent [TS]

  airline so it's like it's not as bad as [TS]

  you expect and actually not that bad and [TS]

  it mostly tastes like nothing but you [TS]

  don't really care a like it tastes if it [TS]

  has any flavor at all the flavors from [TS]

  like the like salad dressing that they [TS]

  use to moisten the sandwich and provide [TS]

  some flavor like that's really where all [TS]

  the flavor comes from so it just tastes [TS]

  like some cold lettuce and chicken with [TS]

  a little bit of salad dressing on it and [TS]

  that's fine and I think the comparison [TS]

  airplane food is good because I got that [TS]

  same sense from airplane food and it [TS]

  taste like it tastes like it's dead it [TS]

  tastes like it's from I was gonna [TS]

  reference the Stephen King story then [TS]

  neither of you have even heard of and [TS]

  known as listening those red but anyway [TS]

  it tastes like all of the sort of life [TS]

  has been sucked out of it and an [TS]

  airplane it's a lot about like you being [TS]

  you know different cabin pressure and [TS]

  recycled air and in a small space and [TS]

  all the other things in the [TS]

  planes weird right but this is on the [TS]

  ground where it looks like a sandwich [TS]

  but when you bite it all you can feel is [TS]

  the texture and there's like literally [TS]

  no taste or if there is taste the bad [TS]

  taste and that's what you know and the [TS]

  dressing they put on to try to be fancy [TS]

  that has made the bread all soggy and [TS]

  gross and the bread already wasn't very [TS]

  good like all you get is like the [TS]

  feeling of eating foam rubber and then a [TS]

  momentary tang of the terrible mustard [TS]

  spread or vinegar thing that they put on [TS]

  it and it's a lot like being on the [TS]

  airplane because you buy your twenty [TS]

  dollar sandwich and it is like you [TS]

  realize the sandwich has become a [TS]

  homogeneous solid that it is no longer a [TS]

  bunch of individual ingredient you bite [TS]

  into it and again all you experience is [TS]

  the varying textures of the of the [TS]

  things but nothing has any taste I mean [TS]

  but I like I've never had as negative [TS]

  reaction as you have yep use like I [TS]

  they've always I've you know usually but [TS]

  I'm eating them I'm paying attention to [TS]

  what I'm eating for at most one bite but [TS]

  I'm also like usually like thinking [TS]

  about what I just saw in sessions or I'm [TS]

  talking to you guys or other people who [TS]

  are around or whatever else and so like [TS]

  I'm not like before I know it I have [TS]

  consumed the mass that's in this plastic [TS]

  container and I have not given a second [TS]

  thought to it and I'm drinking some [TS]

  sugary disgusting like iced tea thing or [TS]

  something and it's fine terrible I state [TS]

  what is a st some I know people like [TS]

  that but it's it's lifting canned iced [TS]

  tea which is full of sugar why can't [TS]

  think why can't they service a proper [TS]

  like carbonated beverage why is that so [TS]

  hard now I shouldn't be I shouldn't be [TS]

  that grumpy no they have other [TS]

  carbonated beverages that I just don't [TS]

  take them as I don't like I lunch on a [TS]

  little bit really bad lemonade is one of [TS]

  the choices I really big ice tea is [TS]

  there other choice that's correct oh [TS]

  they don't have like sodas in there not [TS]

  during lunch that's the thing they have [TS]

  them out it's snack time but they won't [TS]

  do it it can I say four-year-old they'll [TS]

  put it on a snack time even without the [TS]

  mats for the naps that's when they bring [TS]

  it out yeah right but uh but no there's [TS]

  no um there's no soda during lunch which [TS]

  drives me batty because you're exactly [TS]

  right like the real issue here is that [TS]

  it's crappy it's crappy lemonade or well [TS]

  I don't drink iced tea but my [TS]

  understanding is like you guys said it's [TS]

  crappy iced tea I mean to be fair like [TS]

  I'm not even sure I would call that iced [TS]

  tea like there's it's it's just a ton of [TS]

  sugar yeah i'm not sure what the tea [TS]

  flavor is [TS]

  in it I mean they're just like terribly [TS]

  sickly sweet sugary liquid yeah it [TS]

  tastes very little like actual iced tea [TS]

  it tastes a lot more like and like I [TS]

  always grab it thinking like I don't [TS]

  want all the sugar of soda let me grab [TS]

  this iced tea and of course it has just [TS]

  as much if not more sugar as most and [TS]

  every time it's like that's so sweet but [TS]

  no I mean I just don't I've never found [TS]

  them that offensive and and I wonder [TS]

  John are you just making bad choices [TS]

  like normally when you when you approach [TS]

  the rows of tables that have all these [TS]

  on them usually given about three [TS]

  options and it will usually be something [TS]

  on the lines of like chicken roast beef [TS]

  and vegetarian given that choice John [TS]

  which do you pick cuz I'll tell you what [TS]

  I would never pick roast beef I would [TS]

  usually in that case pick the chicken [TS]

  option all right well the only one I [TS]

  could say I pretty much never pick his [TS]

  vegetarian I pic vegetarian maybe twice [TS]

  that of like you know the 30 days I've [TS]

  been at everybody see so far my life and [TS]

  it has been a terrible mistake every [TS]

  time because i doing i'm not like right [TS]

  so for the other choices I feel like [TS]

  I've rotated pretty well because I'm [TS]

  desperately in search or something i can [TS]

  find edible so it's not like i'm saying [TS]

  if this chicken be Zoey's picture pic [TS]

  beef like about 50-50 on the choices and [TS]

  I'm not going with what I think I would [TS]

  like better if both were made well I'm [TS]

  entirely going on like eyeballing them [TS]

  and saying does that look like it's [TS]

  going to be like for example but like [TS]

  I've learned it's best for me to avoid [TS]

  or wraps so if I have a choice between [TS]

  anything in a wrap and something not in [TS]

  a wrap it's best to avoid wraps because [TS]

  the wraps really emphasize the [TS]

  homogeneous solid thing like whatever [TS]

  the constituent ingredients were they [TS]

  wrap it all up put it together make it [TS]

  all soggy put it in the fridge and it [TS]

  just becomes this like giant hunk of [TS]

  cookie dough only it doesn't taste like [TS]

  cookies and doesn't matter what they put [TS]

  in it and so I bizzle be like vegetables [TS]

  in their terrible meat will be mixed [TS]

  into the thing some kind of liquid or [TS]

  mayo and then the wrapping on the [TS]

  outside all soggy and cold and all [TS]

  completely tasteless so in general I [TS]

  avoid wraps and I will prefer avoiding [TS]

  the wraps over the particular thing in [TS]

  them I have learned that chicken is [TS]

  super dangerous if it's thick because it [TS]

  has always end up being very very dry [TS]

  but other than that I'm willing to give [TS]

  almost anything try willing to believe [TS]

  that this one is going to be the one [TS]

  that is not typically vile and most of [TS]

  the time I can get through if is again [TS]

  you're sitting there talking to people [TS]

  or whatever but I do find myself briefly [TS]

  distracted while sitting there eating my [TS]

  thing to go this is real this is [TS]

  terrible I can't even believe is then [TS]

  you just continue going right sometimes [TS]

  I just can't get through it side dishes [TS]

  have lowest percentage for me it's like [TS]

  I'd it's just a write-off I don't pick [TS]

  based on the side dishes I assume all [TS]

  the side dishes will be terrible that is [TS]

  pretty accurate to be honest that's the [TS]

  thing is to me the sandwich to me is [TS]

  usually ok I agree that that the the [TS]

  meat is maybe ham adjacent rather than [TS]

  ham the bread maybe a little wetter than [TS]

  you want but it's edible it's usually [TS]

  fine but in the desert oftentimes I [TS]

  don't care for the particular flavor of [TS]

  the desert because as an example I don't [TS]

  and this may not even be accurate but I [TS]

  don't like cranberries so maybe it's [TS]

  like a cranberry based dessert and so [TS]

  that's that's a KC problem not a dessert [TS]

  problem but the side dish tends to be [TS]

  pretty esoteric in my personal opinion [TS]

  and I agree with you probably four times [TS]

  out of five just gets written off the [TS]

  one thing with the side dish to me is [TS]

  that so it is also a you know the same [TS]

  general formula of like will take some [TS]

  bland ingredients and we will apply some [TS]

  kind of salad dressing to them to to [TS]

  generate flavor the main problem i have [TS]

  with the side dishes i almost always [TS]

  actually enjoy them but they always [TS]

  taste completely unexpected from from [TS]

  how i thought they should be based on [TS]

  how they look because like whatever [TS]

  whatever pairings they make between like [TS]

  the salad dressing or whatever is given [TS]

  the flavor and the ingredients in them [TS]

  like it looks nothing like it tastes and [TS]

  again i usually end up it's usually good [TS]

  enough i usually like it but it I'm [TS]

  always shocked by what is in my mouth [TS]

  after after I've seen it i also have i [TS]

  think one of the things that makes me [TS]

  predisposed to not like most these [TS]

  things is your super tight especially [TS]

  especially for things like side dishes [TS]

  except very often they will put things [TS]

  inside dishes that I expect to be served [TS]

  not not cold or not at room temperature [TS]

  so any rice base side dish I know plenty [TS]

  of you know people like rice at room [TS]

  temperature or their rice dishes that [TS]

  are you know room temperature but when i [TS]

  see a rice-based side dish I don't [TS]

  expect [TS]

  be cold I don't want to eat cold rice [TS]

  their period no matter what is in it and [TS]

  you know same thing for things like [TS]

  potato salad can be cold which is fine [TS]

  but depending on and what if they make a [TS]

  side dish it looks like it's like roast [TS]

  potatoes I don't want room temperature [TS]

  roast potatoes who wants room [TS]

  temperature rose but never mind that [TS]

  that the potatoes were probably not good [TS]

  the second I came out of the oven but [TS]

  certainly I / sitting on a little [TS]

  containers doing in a little steamy you [TS]

  know Dagobah pit inside there you don't [TS]

  let those potatoes and and in the [TS]

  embargoes totally right about the they [TS]

  taste weirder than you think cuz they're [TS]

  not you can't categorize them that's why [TS]

  I very often the most most pertinent [TS]

  question at any WT lunch table is what [TS]

  is the side dish like you can't [TS]

  categorize I can say it's green beans [TS]

  it's potato salad it's corn it's like [TS]

  like sometimes it's a puzzle just to say [TS]

  forget about giving a name to this thing [TS]

  let's just take for granted this has no [TS]

  name can you identify the constituent [TS]

  ingredients one there's a green thing [TS]

  there's a white thing as a yellow thing [TS]

  everyone what do you think the other [TS]

  thing is there's a squash is the potato [TS]

  is it onion you have to put it in your [TS]

  mouth and you're like I'm still not sure [TS]

  yeah because it's covered in some weird [TS]

  liquid or something I seem to recall on [TS]

  it was like chopped up celery and then [TS]

  like cubes of cucumber and like onions [TS]

  with like a green sprinkly stuff on it [TS]

  and then like a cream-based dress it's [TS]

  like method you're just making stuff up [TS]

  like not that's not anything I don't [TS]

  know I don't know what that's supposed [TS]

  to be uh and yeah like it's irony I [TS]

  never know what they're gonna taste like [TS]

  I can't predict which ones i'm going to [TS]

  even be able to tolerate but it's [TS]

  usually a lot of them as one fork full [TS]

  and then it's like never mind that's why [TS]

  you save snacks by the way pro tip [TS]

  that's why in the morning when they have [TS]

  the good danishes and stuff find a way [TS]

  to successfully save those in your [TS]

  backpack that without them destroying [TS]

  all your stuff like pee supper or [TS]

  something put this next in your purse I [TS]

  don't but what I do is I say bananas [TS]

  because they are I don't have a [TS]

  container like that but I would love to [TS]

  be able to save donuts or danishes [TS]

  because those are good right instead [TS]

  what I end up saving our bananas because [TS]

  they come with their own rap [TS]

  and you can put them in your backpack in [TS]

  in general just don't forget they're in [TS]

  there if you take a banana and save it [TS]

  so you have desperation food at lunch do [TS]

  not forget that bananas in there because [TS]

  if you leave it for a few days at the [TS]

  bottom of your backpack that your slide [TS]

  in your macbook and out of its a bad [TS]

  scene oh my god never has never happened [TS]

  to me but I'm very conscious of it you [TS]

  know I'm a little sad that uh while it [TS]

  did I wasn't able to go to this place [TS]

  last year because it shut down i think [TS]

  in 2015 but there what was the name of [TS]

  that a witchcraft i think it was it i [TS]

  mean the thing is it's a chain you can [TS]

  get them all over the place but just not [TS]

  there anymore yeah there was a really [TS]

  good witch craft that was right around [TS]

  the corner that i liked i would [TS]

  typically go and meet like a buddy from [TS]

  apple or someone else i was local at [TS]

  wichcraft one of the days during lunch [TS]

  there's also a burger place that have [TS]

  been to a couple times god I'm drawing a [TS]

  blank the name of it there's a couple of [TS]

  them that are close to moscone again [TS]

  they're obviously a chain and so I'm [TS]

  sure they exist other places too but [TS]

  there's some sort of burger place super [TS]

  duper that is right down the road from [TS]

  moscone that's that's very good as well [TS]

  I was think of Dave meaning when I see [TS]

  it like hey it's that backup burger [TS]

  backup burger super duper the backup [TS]

  program oh oh I get it I get it I get [TS]

  I'm an idiot I got it I think I took a [TS]

  picture of that sign to send him last on [TS]

  yeah so yeah so anyway so I'm kind of [TS]

  bummed that I may not have the chance to [TS]

  eat any of those places when like I said [TS]

  witchcraft had already shut down which I [TS]

  don't get because was so tasty but [TS]

  anyway but yeah I I typically eat the [TS]

  lunches I think I'm in the same boat as [TS]

  Marco in that I do go out from time to [TS]

  time but I do generally eat the lunches [TS]

  probably three days out of five and and [TS]

  I don't find myself deeply offended by [TS]

  them I would not say they're good I [TS]

  would not say they're great but I would [TS]

  not necessarily say they're actively bad [TS]

  they're just they just kind of exists [TS]

  what is it what do they say about the [TS]

  mac mini like it's it's a product in our [TS]

  lineup this is a lunch that is in [TS]

  moscone I'm with you Casey I was very [TS]

  happy with that like I will i know i [TS]

  would say very happy that i was [TS]

  consistently satisfied by them like and [TS]

  that was one thing they had wasn't they [TS]

  had this is what you need if you're [TS]

  going to be in the business of mass [TS]

  lunch what you're getting what you need [TS]

  is consistency and and like minimum [TS]

  acceptability and i think they delivered [TS]

  that [TS]

  they they were never great but I'd never [TS]

  had one where i should like oh this is [TS]

  disgusting i can't eat this like it is [TS]

  it was always fine often weird but [TS]

  always fought I didn't know you as you [TS]

  both had such such a high opinion of [TS]

  this because well it's not a forever in [TS]

  WC together again if we ever have [TS]

  lunches calor again I don't interrogate [TS]

  you in real time to say that thing that [TS]

  you read let us discuss it in detail [TS]

  right now because my opinion of is it [TS]

  like i think they are pretty consistent [TS]

  like they were consistently below [TS]

  average for me like none of I did there [TS]

  were no highlights I can think of that [TS]

  one time they had the really good lunch [TS]

  I can't think of that at all they were [TS]

  always below average images question of [TS]

  how low like none of them none of them [TS]

  gave me food poisoning so I'm not gonna [TS]

  say they're like you know super toilet [TS]

  that's good yeah that's a high bar well [TS]

  I'm pretty sure we found our live venue [TS]

  for our next I was at house they like if [TS]

  ever there was a purpose for periscope [TS]

  forever there was a purpose for [TS]

  periscope it's that moment when when [TS]

  we're all together and we're discussing [TS]

  how bad the wEDC lunches are trying to [TS]

  guess what the side dishes right yeah [TS]

  exactly so it's an it's a new spin-off [TS]

  podcast guess the side dish what is this [TS]

  right like everyone's talking about like [TS]

  underscores telling us like about so [TS]

  about all the limitations of all the new [TS]

  API is that he has already found and [TS]

  wherever i'll figure out what the heck [TS]

  this side dishes that were east so true [TS]

  that whatever if we ever figure it out [TS]

  and identified the ingredients then we [TS]

  have to come up with a name for it yeah [TS]

  but this is actually this this has legs [TS]

  we should run with this but now in true [TS]

  San Franciscan style they just serve the [TS]

  minimum viable lunch and that's what you [TS]

  get [TS]