The Talk Show

187: ‘Forget About Frodo and Sam’, With Special Guest MG Siegler


  in the old days if if I were going to [TS]

  have a show it would be we would have to [TS]

  be together you'd have to be like in the [TS]

  studio with me and you would think i [TS]

  would i would supply comfortable chairs [TS]

  for my guests and you you know i feel [TS]

  like forcing guests to you skype is like [TS]

  you get like a folding chair that that [TS]

  was that was outside and as like rains [TS]

  come on it you know yeah uh yeah it's [TS]

  nice to be on again oh I I there's a [TS]

  couple of things we have to talk about I [TS]

  guess so as always stuff to talk about [TS]

  but what there's a couple of recent [TS]

  posts that you've had on your 500 ich [TS]

  werde site is that what it's called and [TS]

  no that's the domain yep five hundreds [TS]

  yeah um but you wrote about the the end [TS]

  of virgin virgin america yep can you [TS]

  summarize this and then again you even [TS]

  it's a perfect piece I will put it in [TS]

  the Xolos but it is perfect insofar as [TS]

  you admit that virgin america only flew [TS]

  between a very small number of cities [TS]

  right so there's a large number of [TS]

  people who if you don't live in San [TS]

  Francisco LA or New York you probably [TS]

  haven't flown virgin right and and so [TS]

  yeah so basically you know I'm assuming [TS]

  it by this point because it's been been [TS]

  up like a month or so everyone knows [TS]

  that Alaska Airlines bought virgin [TS]

  america and as a part of that you know [TS]

  they sort of did this whole big branding [TS]

  thing certainly around San Francisco and [TS]

  I assume other cities in which virgin [TS]

  operates or it's sort of like the Alaska [TS]

  plus virgin equals love you know type [TS]

  Brit side marketing campaign and because [TS]

  obviously people were worried when [TS]

  someone else bought virgin america that [TS]

  there would be you know would be the end [TS]

  of virgin america and they were trying [TS]

  to sort of play it up no this is just [TS]

  going to make both sides even better and [TS]

  then whenever it was a few weeks ago [TS]

  they of course announced that they're [TS]

  going to be shutting down the Virgin [TS]

  America brand entirely and you know [TS]

  basically merging the planes and in sort [TS]

  of merging all into one entity which of [TS]

  course I'm sure makes sense for the [TS]

  bottom line that's the reason why [TS]

  they're doing it for cost efficiencies [TS]

  but yeah I mean so people who don't live [TS]

  in one of the city's at virgin [TS]

  services which is I'm not even sure what [TS]

  the current number is but let's say it's [TS]

  10 maybe 12 or something like that it's [TS]

  not very many still started in San [TS]

  Francisco the company was was [TS]

  headquarters here obviously was famously [TS]

  you know started out of Richard [TS]

  Branson's Virgin Group and so people who [TS]

  don't live in one of those 10 to 15 [TS]

  whatever it is now cities you know sort [TS]

  of don't really understand why people [TS]

  who to live in one of those cities and [TS]

  take virgin regularly are sort of upset [TS]

  about this and the best push back what I [TS]

  found most amusing was on Twitter you [TS]

  know basically saying but Alaska [TS]

  Airlines is such a great airline to and [TS]

  you know I've been on Alaska certainly [TS]

  any flight that goes to sort of the [TS]

  Pacific Northwest and you know that's [TS]

  sort of one of the common carriers and [TS]

  it's fine it's a nice airline you know [TS]

  it's not United sure we get like with [TS]

  that in a second but it's it's fine but [TS]

  it's not virgin america you have to be [TS]

  on a virgin america plane to know what [TS]

  that's like i mean if you think back to [TS]

  when it when it started whenever that [TS]

  was several years back you know the fact [TS]

  that they were all sort of new planes [TS]

  the basic thing that i highlighted it [TS]

  you know in that in that post is i think [TS]

  people don't understand like you got a [TS]

  level of consistency flying virgin [TS]

  america that you don't get with any [TS]

  other airline because it's a total [TS]

  crapshoot with you're gonna get an old [TS]

  rickety plane whether you're gonna get [TS]

  one with like you know still cigarette [TS]

  uh yes praise you know sticker this just [TS]

  do not use under federal law yes and [TS]

  with virgins sort of because it was you [TS]

  know a newer airline they had all the [TS]

  same i think it was a a380 planes known [TS]

  a three it is the big one whatever the [TS]

  whatever the airbus a321 i could might [TS]

  be that yeah maybe there's one of those [TS]

  you know there's sort of standard in [TS]

  smaller airbus flood plains and so they [TS]

  were all that they all had Wi-Fi which [TS]

  at the time you know was was a novelty [TS]

  certainly they all had those televisions [TS]

  in the screen backs not just in first [TS]

  class or anything at all the screens all [TS]

  the seats sorry had that and you had a [TS]

  very consistent experience you knew if [TS]

  you're getting on a virgin america [TS]

  flight it was more likely to be a good [TS]

  flight i mean i'm sure there you know [TS]

  everyone will have a horse story about [TS]

  every airline but it's not like it's not [TS]

  like you hear about united and delta [TS]

  and some of the other ones that are just [TS]

  you know constantly a crummy experience [TS]

  this was this was a definitely a notch [TS]

  above we had them in philly until about [TS]

  two years ago and we lost them we lost [TS]

  virgin during the in aftermath of the [TS]

  American oh the merger usair merger I've [TS]

  told this story before but long story [TS]

  short it's very simple when when US air [TS]

  an American proposed merging one of the [TS]

  problem areas was that it gave the [TS]

  combined airline too many gates at JFK [TS]

  in New York that the eft are the Federal [TS]

  Aviation there's some kind of limit to [TS]

  the percentage of gates that any one [TS]

  airline can have it any Airport and US [TS]

  air and American both had a big presence [TS]

  at JFK and it was too many gates so they [TS]

  had to get rid of some of the gates and [TS]

  virgin decided they would rather take [TS]

  more gates at JFK but leave Philly [TS]

  entirely but and they couldn't keep both [TS]

  because one of the problems of being an [TS]

  airline is it's really hard to get more [TS]

  planes I mean it sounds silly because [TS]

  you think like oh you just buy you know [TS]

  call Boeing up and buy a plane the way [TS]

  right you know I mean like if you and I [TS]

  bought a start at a moving company and [TS]

  and it took off and we needed more [TS]

  trucks we could just go buy more trucks [TS]

  right that's not a problem but in [TS]

  aviation it's a you know you gotta like [TS]

  order an airplane like couple years in [TS]

  advance right now such a long lead time [TS]

  so and so I've been off virgin for a [TS]

  while but I still get the emails like I [TS]

  got the email the other day from Alaska [TS]

  telling me not to worry my points are [TS]

  okay and it's right yeah well I mean [TS]

  we'll see of course you know Alaska's [TS]

  trying to say all the right things you [TS]

  know in there in the sort of press [TS]

  statement about it they said we're going [TS]

  to be sort of bringing the Virgin [TS]

  experience to Alaska flights and so [TS]

  including the humorous a bit about there [TS]

  being mood lighting you know that's one [TS]

  of the that's like the thing they [TS]

  decided to focus on because virgin [TS]

  america sort of famously has this this [TS]

  purple hued mood lighting and so Alaska [TS]

  is going to do that but they're going to [TS]

  have blue mood lighting so it will be [TS]

  it'll be not the exact same but it will [TS]

  be almost as good and we'll see I mean [TS]

  you know they said that that basically [TS]

  nothing was going to change and then of [TS]

  course everything's changing so you know [TS]

  don't have a lot of a lot of hope for it [TS]

  remaining as it was [TS]

  the good news if there is like you know [TS]

  slight good news it's going to take them [TS]

  a long time to sort of phase in and out [TS]

  those changes and so virgin will remain [TS]

  operating for for I think at least like [TS]

  a year maybe a couple years something [TS]

  like that but yeah it'll be it'll be a [TS]

  big change in and as we're seeing this [TS]

  week with the the airline industry this [TS]

  is sort of par for the course just doing [TS]

  anything to to screw over customers I [TS]

  think they only had two or three gates [TS]

  in Philly so it wasn't a lot of flights [TS]

  it wasn't a big presence and it was a [TS]

  small desk for check-in you knows I [TS]

  usually like to people so it's not a [TS]

  fair comparison to like American which [TS]

  dominates Philly um but II every time I [TS]

  every time I could fly virgin I did and [TS]

  I you know they had a great nonstop [TS]

  service between philly and san francisco [TS]

  which was it you know does a very common [TS]

  flight for me for further work every [TS]

  time i could i did and i never once had [TS]

  to wait like that it's just little [TS]

  things like that the people at the desk [TS]

  were like super efficient and nice and [TS]

  you'd get up there and they would be [TS]

  like hey you know and then you'd give [TS]

  him your ID and then they'd you know [TS]

  take your bag if you had a bag to check [TS]

  her or give you it you know and you were [TS]

  gone that was it and you only had no [TS]

  lines a never and good service on the [TS]

  plane my favorite story about virgin was [TS]

  one time also i used to get I got the [TS]

  cheapest upgrades to first-class I don't [TS]

  understand they only had the way every [TS]

  plane I they're probably all the same [TS]

  they only had like eight first class [TS]

  seats it was like to Rosa too young or [TS]

  they still do I guess and every almost [TS]

  every time I flew I could get an upgrade [TS]

  from Coach to first class for like a [TS]

  hundred bucks and I'd be like they're in [TS]

  general the first guy seats I mean [TS]

  weren't super expensive when you compare [TS]

  it to what they are on other airlines so [TS]

  yeah I I flew first class on virgin as a [TS]

  percentage higher than anywhere else and [TS]

  it wasn't because i had the point it was [TS]

  because it was so cheap to upgrade and [TS]

  the service was super terrific the seats [TS]

  were super comfortable but one time I [TS]

  was up in first class and we actually [TS]

  pulled away from the gate a little bit [TS]

  and then all of a sudden there was some [TS]

  kind of not another unpleasant commotion [TS]

  but like some kind of you know thing [TS]

  with the phone and [TS]

  hey hey let's go back and they went back [TS]

  to the gate and some poor sap who had a [TS]

  connecting flight that was late they [TS]

  went back to the gate I'd say it set us [TS]

  back about three minutes they went back [TS]

  to the gate and let this guy on the [TS]

  plane and this bow this guy looked like [TS]

  he won the lottery because you know he [TS]

  didn't ever hear about that I've never [TS]

  seen it before I mean maybe I've never [TS]

  seen it before because i wasn't in first [TS]

  class but i mean i think even in [TS]

  coaching to kind of tell ya if the I've [TS]

  never seen that if the plane stops [TS]

  backing up and goes for her again uh it [TS]

  was a nice thing and I was at before cuz [TS]

  at three minutes what's the difference [TS]

  the three minutes and coming out of it [TS]

  was it coming back from SFO to Philly [TS]

  and so you're probably going to wait [TS]

  times avoiding to take off anyway but [TS]

  for that poor guy who almost missed his [TS]

  flight uh they just it was you know [TS]

  thousands of dollars and happiness for [TS]

  that guy and I was made I've seen I've [TS]

  seen much more of the sort of the [TS]

  opposite version of that story where the [TS]

  get the plane isn't even pushed back [TS]

  from the gate but they just closed the [TS]

  door and they will not open it even [TS]

  though the person's there the plane is [TS]

  still there and the door is closed and [TS]

  so it's just they will not reopen it for [TS]

  those people not with virgin but with [TS]

  like countless other airlines I've seen [TS]

  that yeah and they were like in a head [TS]

  that's the flight attendants were so [TS]

  nice they were like hey hey you're here [TS]

  you're on don't want you don't have to [TS]

  run anymore take your time go find your [TS]

  seat you want us to bring you a drink [TS]

  and they were like he was like this is [TS]

  amazing okay sure yeah you know take a [TS]

  coke you know and it was but to your [TS]

  point that was sort of like that's also [TS]

  definitely a part of sort of the overall [TS]

  experience with virgin and I don't know [TS]

  what it is I don't know if they just if [TS]

  they hired like from a different crop of [TS]

  people in the industry or whatnot but [TS]

  people generally didn't seem to hate [TS]

  their heat their jobs and hate their [TS]

  lives when they're working at virgin [TS]

  whereas they do you know very often it [TS]

  seems like on many other airlines yeah [TS]

  at the big ones and I think Alaska and [TS]

  it's like to your point I would compare [TS]

  Alaska to southwest I haven't flown [TS]

  Alaska a lot I've flown it and I think [TS]

  at least twice to whenever is the XOXO [TS]

  conference in portland right is it [TS]

  coincided with XOXO at least for three [TS]

  years coincided with the tail end of the [TS]

  iphone introduction events in September [TS]

  we're just by somewhat coincidence or I [TS]

  guess not quite total coincidence but [TS]

  Apple targeting like the second week of [TS]

  September for iphone events and XOXO [TS]

  targeting the end of the second week for [TS]

  XOXO at least twice for me to go to XOXO [TS]

  it made more sense to fly out to San [TS]

  Francisco to beginning of the week wait [TS]

  and then fly San Francisco to Portland [TS]

  instead of flying all the way back to [TS]

  Philadelphia and then to Portland um and [TS]

  Alaska was like you know was the best [TS]

  airline you know I had the most flights [TS]

  for that so I flown Alaska at least [TS]

  twice and I would compare it to [TS]

  Southwest it's it's fine it's I mean [TS]

  it's southwest I float it a lot actually [TS]

  and I like it um it's sort of like um [TS]

  you know it's like a nice commuter bus [TS]

  in the sky right because they don't have [TS]

  assigned seats and but you get like sort [TS]

  of these numbers and you stand and then [TS]

  you get on the plane you can just pick [TS]

  whatever seat you want and it's like [TS]

  very simple you know you always I think [TS]

  you always get the same type of plane so [TS]

  that that's sort of a similar experience [TS]

  but again I mean that it's nice but it [TS]

  cannot compare to what virgin virgin [TS]

  america like is like the one that does [TS]

  supposedly which I have not been on yet [TS]

  i wonder if you have is the jet blue [TS]

  mint experience um good we're on I've [TS]

  not been on that okay we do we have jet [TS]

  blue but they don't fly anywhere i go [TS]

  out of philly i think yeah and i think i [TS]

  think San Francisco has jet blue as well [TS]

  but i don't think the mint thing is [TS]

  currently in play or at least it's not [TS]

  like if I would take jetblue's i think [TS]

  i've taken it once before and I've taken [TS]

  it to New York because obviously most [TS]

  the time i would take virgin but i don't [TS]

  think the mint service operates between [TS]

  San Francisco and New York hopefully [TS]

  they changed that maybe with the Virgin [TS]

  news but it's like LA to New York I [TS]

  think has it and people rave about it [TS]

  when they take that they they say it's [TS]

  at least as good as virgin if not better [TS]

  I don't really know you know all the all [TS]

  the perks and everything having that [TS]

  take it before but I guess it's that's [TS]

  one to look forward to potentially hmm [TS]

  and it's just an industry and and I it's [TS]

  you you've made it in your column you [TS]

  made it a sort of comparison to like [TS]

  apple and Dell or something like that [TS]

  maybe ask us maybe more like Lenovo you [TS]

  know where like I think Pat is a nice [TS]

  laptop but it's right it's not and it's [TS]

  not a Mac you know it's it's what [TS]

  happens if somebody really tries to make [TS]

  something [TS]

  really good in an industry where that [TS]

  was fine is generally considered good [TS]

  wow you got really lucky you know my [TS]

  fight was flying it was more or less on [TS]

  time we landed more or less on time and [TS]

  and none of my luggage got lost right I [TS]

  was it was funny we were I was chatting [TS]

  actually with a in our internal work [TS]

  slack with some people about the news [TS]

  and of course everyone's sort of [TS]

  outraged right when it hits and so like [TS]

  there's a long thread going on and that [TS]

  was the thing that I quoted a co-worker [TS]

  mine ken was like you know comparing it [TS]

  to who yes sir did the the pc vs mac [TS]

  thing which i thought would be fun [TS]

  because of course that always you know [TS]

  draws such heated debate on both sides [TS]

  for that and whenever you compare [TS]

  anything to to that situation but i mean [TS]

  i think it does feel fairly apt you know [TS]

  having been myself you know a long time [TS]

  pc user when i was growing up and then [TS]

  switching to the mac and just like i was [TS]

  pc user and it was fine and like I would [TS]

  get a faster pc and sometimes you know [TS]

  windows would break down and and that [TS]

  would suck but when it worked it was [TS]

  fine and then you know it's uh it was a [TS]

  totally different experience once I [TS]

  switched it over and it's I mean do you [TS]

  have air pods on bow bet you do oh yeah [TS]

  I love their rights so I do too it's my [TS]

  favorite my favorite thing in the last [TS]

  few years I think yeah seriously love [TS]

  them so much but that's it n epitomizes [TS]

  what Apple stands for to me which is [TS]

  let's try to make this as nice as [TS]

  possible even if it's so such a simple [TS]

  thing is just putting to your pods [TS]

  engineer and having them just work when [TS]

  you hit play on your phone yeah and just [TS]

  taking it to like just just keep going [TS]

  into tenths of a decimal 99.999% nice [TS]

  99.999% nice and sweaty grim tale after [TS]

  detail that's the Apple way and and it's [TS]

  not like apples perfect my favorite [TS]

  example from recent years of Apple [TS]

  totally falling short on this is the [TS]

  remote control for the new Apple TV oh [TS]

  yeah right which-- like how does how did [TS]

  this ever come out of Apple as okay [TS]

  because this is so it is fine and it's [TS]

  not you know what I mean and it's not [TS]

  right it's not right [TS]

  like a comcast remote with 127 buttons [TS]

  right right it is Apple like in certain [TS]

  ways but it's totally on Apple like in [TS]

  other ways it's epple like in certain [TS]

  ways although like I feel like everyone [TS]

  who has one has the exact same complaint [TS]

  and that complaint is that you never [TS]

  know if you're holding it right side up [TS]

  or upside down and like how did how did [TS]

  just you know just user testing even [TS]

  with amongst Apple employees how did [TS]

  that not come up i mean that's like the [TS]

  first thing that comes up for everyone [TS]

  right but it to me virgin was shooting [TS]

  for the air pods like experience from [TS]

  check-in to you know getting off the [TS]

  plane that's what virgin still stands [TS]

  for a while they while they exist but [TS]

  and something like Alaska or Southwest [TS]

  which I am a fan of I'm a big fan of so [TS]

  I've flown tons of miles on Southwest I [TS]

  don't anymore just because they've sort [TS]

  of dropped nonstop routes between the [TS]

  cities I go to and I'm as the longer and [TS]

  more I fly the more resistant I am too [TS]

  taking anything other than a non-stop [TS]

  yeah but I really I do like them and I [TS]

  know that they're not luxurious but the [TS]

  main reason i like them is that that [TS]

  they do seem to hire really nice people [TS]

  and the planes are very consistent the [TS]

  southwest plane is always clean and [TS]

  always exactly the same but it's nothing [TS]

  like virgin which is trying to say let's [TS]

  make this really nice let's make being [TS]

  in a coach seat like a decent humane [TS]

  experience and the thing that's really a [TS]

  bummer about it is you know so when [TS]

  Virgin launched I remembered very well [TS]

  in San Francisco there was a lot of pomp [TS]

  and circumstances there is with many [TS]

  sort of Richard Branson affiliated [TS]

  things but you know deservedly so and [TS]

  the whole criticism at the time though [TS]

  was like yeah it's a great experience [TS]

  but they'll never be able to keep this [TS]

  going they're not going to be able to [TS]

  run it profitably and this is just not [TS]

  the way the airline industry works um [TS]

  you know in this day and age and you [TS]

  know I think they were running [TS]

  unprofitable for a long time I do think [TS]

  that they eventually turned a profit or [TS]

  they were very close to it and so there [TS]

  was some hope you know that like look [TS]

  you can actually build an airline with a [TS]

  great experience that actually makes [TS]

  business sense as well and then of [TS]

  course that she's got thrown out the [TS]

  window and they merged I mean and [TS]

  l airlines continue to constantly merge [TS]

  and continue to constantly charge for [TS]

  more things for overhead storage just [TS]

  adding on fee after fee after fee and [TS]

  that's just the you know that's the [TS]

  state of the industry and virgin it [TS]

  seemed like was trying to buck that [TS]

  trend in it ultimately you know just [TS]

  didn't didn't end up doing it we'll see [TS]

  how Alaska sort of takes takes the takes [TS]

  the mantle but that's what's the real [TS]

  bummer about it it just it sort of [TS]

  showcases that I think it just probably [TS]

  can't ever ever work it seems like a lot [TS]

  of people I know and it does make some [TS]

  sense but it's a to me key to the [TS]

  continuing I don't know if I want to say [TS]

  success cuz I'm not quite sure how [TS]

  profitable they are but the continuing [TS]

  dominance of the the major mediocre [TS]

  carriers your Americans Delta's United [TS]

  yet Roe is that they large you know for [TS]

  obvious reasons they they largely depend [TS]

  on regular frequent flyers right and [TS]

  people who once you start racking up [TS]

  points on a certain airline so many [TS]

  you're you're locked in so I don't feel [TS]

  that way I've got platinum see I don't [TS]

  either American i am which is pretty [TS]

  nice and it gets me a couple of perks [TS]

  and I've got miles I can cash in [TS]

  whatever but every time I booked a [TS]

  flight I still search for other airlines [TS]

  just to look and if I found something [TS]

  better cheaper on it on a different [TS]

  airline like I still check to see if [TS]

  Southwest is restored a couple of [TS]

  nonstops to San Francisco every day I [TS]

  look every once in a while like I would [TS]

  think about going back to Southwest on [TS]

  certain flights especially if I kit and [TS]

  and or if I could get a better time a [TS]

  day or something like that yeah I I'm in [TS]

  the same boat as you I am NOT sort of [TS]

  beholden to any sort of point system i [TS]

  have the Virgin points of course but as [TS]

  we just talked about like they didn't go [TS]

  all that many places so obviously I [TS]

  would have to take other airlines all [TS]

  the time and so I think I have rewards [TS]

  programs at all of them and I don't have [TS]

  huge status but I've status that some of [TS]

  them i would say fly quite a bit and but [TS]

  i'm not one of those people who you know [TS]

  is so adamant about maintaining that [TS]

  versus just maintaining a good [TS]

  experience that's [TS]

  I do know people who are the exact [TS]

  opposite i know people who take flights [TS]

  to and from New York City just to [TS]

  maintain their status level like they [TS]

  don't actually they don't actually stay [TS]

  overnight in the city they just do a [TS]

  round trip flight on one day just to be [TS]

  able to maintain their status which [TS]

  sounds absolutely insane I it's just not [TS]

  that important to me and I just don't [TS]

  get that much for it you know like even [TS]

  as a platinum status person on American [TS]

  like I still don't get I still have [TS]

  would have to pay to join their quote [TS]

  unquote Admirals Club to get in separate [TS]

  the lounges like right and I tend not to [TS]

  need lounges because I tend to just fly [TS]

  nonstop from home to my destination my [TS]

  destination to home and the only time I [TS]

  ever really need or wish I had access to [TS]

  a lounge is when my flights delayed if I [TS]

  get to the airport on time and the [TS]

  flight is significantly delayed and I've [TS]

  got you know two or three hours to burn [TS]

  well then it would be nice to be in a [TS]

  lounge you know some places I can get in [TS]

  the amex lounge but other airports don't [TS]

  have one but it's not I don't even get [TS]

  it I have platinum status and I still [TS]

  don't get it so it doesn't make any [TS]

  sense to me why people are so loyal like [TS]

  that but it really does seem to screw [TS]

  the upstart Airlines like they can't [TS]

  that one of the reasons they can't get [TS]

  traction is people I ever heard virgin [TS]

  is nice but I've got points on United so [TS]

  here I go yep yeah it's uh it's it's [TS]

  quite a racket that they that they run [TS]

  and like you know I think you know [TS]

  there's certain other airlines that go [TS]

  internationally that are that are [TS]

  obviously very nice I'm actually getting [TS]

  ready to go to London and I'm going to [TS]

  be on Virgin Atlantic it's sort of [TS]

  sister thing it was like the sister [TS]

  thing but they weren't exactly you know [TS]

  affiliated for a long time two points [TS]

  didn't even transfer I think they do now [TS]

  but I think they set it up that way to [TS]

  make it easier to have happen what [TS]

  actually happened which was Darrell sell [TS]

  one or the other without selling the [TS]

  other yeah Branson wrote like a you know [TS]

  a post-mortem or whatever and you know [TS]

  sort of made some reference to it you [TS]

  know like losing a child and but there [TS]

  was all sorts of issues you know with it [TS]

  with his ownership of it and whether or [TS]

  not he could have [TS]

  actually blocked anything it seems like [TS]

  no and so that's what happened I've [TS]

  never flown virgin atlantic but i would [TS]

  love to and my favorite story about that [TS]

  and it relates to the show is way back [TS]

  in the day when damn benjamin and i were [TS]

  reviewing all the James Bond movies we [TS]

  were talking I know where your yes we're [TS]

  talking about quantum of solace yes I [TS]

  was just going to bring that up yep and [TS]

  uh bond is is on enroute from England to [TS]

  all right oh where was he going [TS]

  somewhere in South America or the [TS]

  Caribbean right yeah cuz he's with them [TS]

  he's with the elder gentleman yeah yeah [TS]

  and then having a drink yeah and and [TS]

  he's bereft and he's he's getting tanked [TS]

  at a there's a bar in the plane and hit [TS]

  with a bartender and he's sitting at the [TS]

  bar drinking Vesper martinis he I don't [TS]

  like 18 of them or something and it's a [TS]

  beautiful-looking bar and dan and I are [TS]

  like it was a cool scene you know and [TS]

  it's it's it's kind of unusual to see [TS]

  bond actually get get Talia he's always [TS]

  drinking but he's all never seems to be [TS]

  drunk and here he is you know drinking [TS]

  himself into a stupor but we're like how [TS]

  unrealistic is it that there is a nice [TS]

  bar on a commercial air flight and then [TS]

  all these people wrote to me like oh no [TS]

  no they have it yeah yeah they were [TS]

  there that was actually shot on a real [TS]

  virgin atlantic it's like oh my god I've [TS]

  gotta get on that line I mean yeah I've [TS]

  been on them that's a hundred percent [TS]

  legitimate they have those bar areas and [TS]

  it's amazing it's not usually as quiet [TS]

  as it was I would say in that scene [TS]

  there's usually much more people or [TS]

  activity around it but yeah that's [TS]

  that's legitimate it's it's pretty [TS]

  amazing that was my fifth was some of my [TS]

  favorite feedback ever we were both like [TS]

  totally preposterous who would ever have [TS]

  a commercial air something like that [TS]

  it's like something out of the 1960s and [TS]

  all these people wrote to us tonight oh [TS]

  yeah it is real and it is not it's [TS]

  fantastic um yeah and the other thing [TS]

  with virgin is so I rarely Virgin [TS]

  Atlantic I rarely take it because it's [TS]

  for what some reason it ends up being [TS]

  it's usually far more expensive than [TS]

  British British Airways and I just we [TS]

  just so happen to find a ticket that was [TS]

  roughly the same price and so we decided [TS]

  book that because you haven't taken [TS]

  virgin but if you ever go to London in [TS]

  Heathrow they have an amazing lounge [TS]

  tunes well it's probably the best lunch [TS]

  I've ever been in including you can get [TS]

  a haircut you can shower you can that's [TS]

  pretty that you save a spa they have all [TS]

  this amazing stuff there the shower [TS]

  would be nice because sometimes for [TS]

  whatever reason when you fly [TS]

  cross-country especially for you because [TS]

  you're coming from the west coast I [TS]

  always feel like it's been like three [TS]

  days since when I get off the plane like [TS]

  in Europe I always feel like man I felt [TS]

  like it was 72 hours yeah yes so yeah I [TS]

  highly recommend that if if you ever [TS]

  going overseas all right let me take a [TS]

  break here and thank our first friend of [TS]

  the show our good friends at Squarespace [TS]

  you guys know Squarespace it's the best [TS]

  place to go to make a website register [TS]

  domain anything like that when you make [TS]

  your next move you're going to need a [TS]

  website why not start it at Squarespace [TS]

  they've got beautiful templates they've [TS]

  got beautiful types of sites to choose [TS]

  from to start so if you're making an [TS]

  online store you can start with a store [TS]

  and then choose a template from there if [TS]

  you're making a podcast you can start [TS]

  with something like a podcast and boom [TS]

  you've got a podcast site you didn't do [TS]

  any work you can host your podcast right [TS]

  there from Squarespace you name the type [TS]

  of site you can build it with [TS]

  squarespace and I say this is what I [TS]

  think is that the resistance people [TS]

  might have to Squarespace is you say [TS]

  well everybody signs up for Squarespace [TS]

  and you choose from a handful of [TS]

  templates and then my sites going to [TS]

  look like a square space site because [TS]

  every it's not like that they've got so [TS]

  many templates to choose from and so [TS]

  many ways to customize them that you [TS]

  don't even know when you're looking at a [TS]

  square space site I was just looking at [TS]

  a I mentioned this on daring fireball [TS]

  last week there's a new cheesesteak [TS]

  place pretty near our place here in [TS]

  Philadelphia called cleavers really [TS]

  great new sandwich shop here I was [TS]

  looking at their website to place to [TS]

  take out order and one of the things you [TS]

  click on to see the menu loaded instead [TS]

  of as a page loaded as a standalone [TS]

  image and I could see the URL I could [TS]

  see it was hosted at Squarespace I was [TS]

  like whoa Annapolis and I've you sourced [TS]

  and look and their whole site which is a [TS]

  really nice site but doesn't look [TS]

  anything like any other site I've ever [TS]

  seen it's very much strongly branded [TS]

  like the restaurant built with [TS]

  squarespace but that makes total sense [TS]

  why would they waste time [TS]

  doing something outside director parties [TS]

  like building a website when they could [TS]

  just do it it's Squarespace and stick to [TS]

  building into great restaurant so keep [TS]

  in mind next time you need a website for [TS]

  anything check out Squarespace go to [TS]

  squarespace com you get a free demo and [TS]

  once you sign up remember this code [TS]

  Gruber just my last name GRU ber and you [TS]

  will get ten percent off your purchase [TS]

  why thanks to them for their continued [TS]

  support of this podcast all right next [TS]

  next item on my list at least is your [TS]

  reaction to the new macbook pros which [TS]

  yeah so um and I know you have thoughts [TS]

  on this as well and you sir the one [TS]

  thing that you link to which I thought [TS]

  was interesting was a few weeks ago sort [TS]

  of a pole right of people how they feel [TS]

  about it and so my general take is [TS]

  pretty straightforward I just I don't [TS]

  hate the touch bar I just think it's [TS]

  totally useless I have a few apps you [TS]

  know that are sort of tailored for it [TS]

  coating things like Pixelmator handful [TS]

  of other things a bunch a bunch more [TS]

  that aren't of course but I honestly [TS]

  just switched the sort of the fluid a [TS]

  setting to be back to just the standard [TS]

  sorta f and or no i didn't sorry i [TS]

  didn't use the the f keys i used the [TS]

  function because i use the actual [TS]

  brightness and all that stuff because i [TS]

  like I just found myself going to that [TS]

  like way way more than I would use any [TS]

  of those sort of dynamic options that [TS]

  the touch bar would off offer and I just [TS]

  I don't I I have a hard time I know it's [TS]

  early but I have a hard time ever seeing [TS]

  that it becomes like this great feature [TS]

  of the macbook pro do you disagree with [TS]

  that uh no I don't disagree I feel like [TS]

  it exists I feel like the touch bar as [TS]

  we have it right now exists in a sort of [TS]

  no-man's land where you cannot I don't [TS]

  think it's fair to trash it i no think [TS]

  it's fair to say this is great I feel [TS]

  like [TS]

  it's it's nuanced now that said I don't [TS]

  own one so I've got that I spent about [TS]

  two or three weeks when they first came [TS]

  out playing out the review units I had [TS]

  multiple of them but mostly spent the [TS]

  time at the 13-inch because that's the [TS]

  size i like and i love touch ID yes I [TS]

  don't use daily hearted I don't use the [TS]

  escape key as much as some people do but [TS]

  I do use it and I do still even now even [TS]

  if somebody who doesn't use the escape [TS]

  key all the time I question whether they [TS]

  should not have left a hardware [TS]

  traditional Escape key and made the [TS]

  touch bar just run from escape have a [TS]

  scape key in the upper left corner the [TS]

  touch ID in the upper right and have the [TS]

  touch bar exist between the two I think [TS]

  right I think that because it would have [TS]

  given it more symmetry as well because [TS]

  it's you know they have one button on [TS]

  one side why not have the escape button [TS]

  even if they change the size of it and [TS]

  made it square sort of like the right [TS]

  touch ideas but make it something you [TS]

  can actually click and I think yet what [TS]

  if I I do feel like just reading Twitter [TS]

  reading feedback from readers and stuff [TS]

  like that I feel like an awful lot of [TS]

  the criticism where the touch bar [TS]

  relates to the Escape key as for the [TS]

  utility of the touch part self it's hard [TS]

  to say I do i do I remember thinking it [TS]

  was really nice to adjust the brightness [TS]

  with the touch bar and I ended I find it [TS]

  I find that so much more tedious [TS]

  honestly to do it that way um you know [TS]

  so here's before I switched it back to [TS]

  being sort of the brightness as as sort [TS]

  of default button so it has like you [TS]

  know brightness and and things like [TS]

  bring up expose and stuff like that you [TS]

  can you there's a setting that you can [TS]

  you know move it to rather than being [TS]

  the dynamic touch bar it's it's sort of [TS]

  your old standard buttons and I did that [TS]

  because I was actually using I think [TS]

  it's when you hit the function the FN [TS]

  key i think that would bring up the old [TS]

  ones and i was just using that all the [TS]

  time because even though there are what [TS]

  there is a brightness button on the [TS]

  dynamic version of the touch bar when [TS]

  you hit it then you yeah then you have [TS]

  to scroll sort of up or down and so [TS]

  often i just want like you know one [TS]

  little nit more of brightness not like i [TS]

  don't need this [TS]

  sort of scrubbing you know to see all [TS]

  the way down all the way up with the [TS]

  difference is it's like one of those [TS]

  features that just seems like a cool [TS]

  option on paper but when you actually [TS]

  use it it's much less useful ma'am so I [TS]

  don't know I I can see the mixed [TS]

  feelings about it I I feel I feel like [TS]

  the biggest thing that it needs is [TS]

  haptic feedback I feel like yeah and I [TS]

  was reminded of it just recently because [TS]

  i I'm I'm I haven't used it a lot [TS]

  because I don't personally have a neat [TS]

  but I'm fascinated by the new clips app [TS]

  and I think it's I think it's really [TS]

  well done even though I realized some of [TS]

  the initial complaint from other people [TS]

  are that they're a little confused by it [TS]

  but I yeah I think it's only confusing [TS]

  at first because its ambitious and tries [TS]

  to do a lot and so there's a lot in [TS]

  there but I feel like everything that [TS]

  they've done once you get it it's pretty [TS]

  logical but the the thing that made me [TS]

  think of the touch bar is when you've [TS]

  got your you've got multiple clips in a [TS]

  project in a row and if you want to [TS]

  rearrange them you you can force touch [TS]

  on one and you get like a little you get [TS]

  the haptic feedback as you drag it along [TS]

  to rearrange clips in the timeline right [TS]

  and it feels like so you want to move [TS]

  the one that's in the fourth spot to the [TS]

  second spot as you drag right between [TS]

  second and third you get a little bit [TS]

  rumbles and you can feel it right yeah [TS]

  you can feel like it's like you're [TS]

  dragging it over physical slots and it's [TS]

  so nice and I just thought boy the touch [TS]

  bar would feel so much better if it had [TS]

  a little bit of feedback like that and [TS]

  that speaks to I think it was a Michael [TS]

  op right who wrote a post about you know [TS]

  the the usability factor of the touch [TS]

  bar because it's almost impossible to [TS]

  use without looking at it which is also [TS]

  very odd right like because that's not [TS]

  what that row of buttons has been for [TS]

  the entire life of a macbook and so to [TS]

  your point like if they had some sort of [TS]

  haptic feedback where you could actually [TS]

  tell what you were doing while still [TS]

  keying on the screen like for scrubbing [TS]

  or doing some other action that would be [TS]

  significantly better than having to look [TS]

  down because you don't know where where [TS]

  you are yeah and I do feel like that's [TS]

  part of it you know like it some of the [TS]

  ones in the middle I almost never used [TS]

  like I don't on a traditional F kero [TS]

  like I don't [TS]

  really I almost never adjust the [TS]

  brightness of my keyboard keyboard you [TS]

  know saying sometimes it's like i'll be [TS]

  on like a dark flight and I'm all right [TS]

  yeah I'll adjust the brightness of my [TS]

  keyboard but i'll just do it once and [TS]

  it's fine for me to be looking at it but [TS]

  for like micro adjustments to the [TS]

  brightness of the screen I I am I can do [TS]

  it without looking just by going up with [TS]

  my left hand to the top left I know when [TS]

  I Escape key is and the next to or [TS]

  brightness and even if I'm wrong even if [TS]

  I go up and I hit brightness up even [TS]

  though I wanted brightness down I can [TS]

  see what happened right away and I know [TS]

  I'm right next door and just slide my [TS]

  finger and yep and do that without [TS]

  looking and I'm I'm with you with that [TS]

  and I'm the exact same way with volume [TS]

  and both of those are now problematic on [TS]

  the touch bar you know if they look nice [TS]

  like that nice you know little scrubber [TS]

  and everything but just I do not like it [TS]

  at all I mean I don't hate hate it but I [TS]

  just don't see like i said i switch back [TS]

  to sort of the the old standards and [TS]

  like you said they're not physical [TS]

  buttons and there's no haptic feedback [TS]

  so they're harder to use so i have to [TS]

  actually pay attention to what i'm doing [TS]

  and then i also i do think i agree that [TS]

  touch ID is by far the best part of it [TS]

  but the weird thing there is that i [TS]

  almost never get to use it because i do [TS]

  have an Apple watch and I'm always [TS]

  wearing the Apple watch and that unlocks [TS]

  faster than the touch ID does so before [TS]

  you can even reach up to the touch ID [TS]

  it's done so there's no point yeah well [TS]

  it's good for purchases or whatever yeah [TS]

  for purchase logging in logging in is [TS]

  the big is you know the money you do i [TS]

  log in an hour you know open it from [TS]

  sleep and login way more frequently than [TS]

  i buy stuff yeah um and so what do you [TS]

  do you why do you think that they did [TS]

  the touch bar because like so part of [TS]

  the thing that I wrote was you know sort [TS]

  of the the title of is a great laptop [TS]

  laptop stagnation the notion being that [TS]

  we've sort of reached peak form factor [TS]

  of the laptop and I know that's [TS]

  dangerous to say for sort of any [TS]

  technology that we've reached peak [TS]

  because there's always going to be some [TS]

  level of innovation and I think I made [TS]

  the equip that maybe we'll have phil [TS]

  schiller on stage saying can innovate [TS]

  anymore my ass [TS]

  when they do something new with it with [TS]

  the macbook but like my only line of [TS]

  thinking is either they're going to one [TS]

  day try to make it a bigger screen area [TS]

  like the keyboard tray be being more [TS]

  maybe like apt 'ok digital keys you know [TS]

  something like that or not even like [TS]

  replacing the entire keyboard but just [TS]

  making that a bigger area you know for [TS]

  for different things that they can [TS]

  dynamically do I mean that has to be [TS]

  some line of thinking right it can't [TS]

  just be this this touch bar which isn't [TS]

  that interesting i guess i don't know [TS]

  but i find it worries him if their goal [TS]

  is to replace hardware keyboard with a [TS]

  virtual keyboard because I I can't see [TS]

  how that would like whatever my I kind [TS]

  of still prefer my older macbook [TS]

  keyboard to the new one the shallow keys [TS]

  yeah cuz in Newark but it's a deeper [TS]

  case but after two or three weeks my [TS]

  feelings we went from I like the old one [TS]

  better too oh I have mixed feelings [TS]

  because I also feel though that my old [TS]

  one they feel loose and jank jank right [TS]

  and resin the new ones even though they [TS]

  have shallower feel so clicking them [TS]

  feels worse because it's shallow but [TS]

  just resting my fingers on them feels [TS]

  better because they don't wiggle around [TS]

  they feel more premium yep and I had a [TS]

  problem at first I had a really weird [TS]

  problem and I can't explain why but the [TS]

  the new keyboards in the macbook and the [TS]

  mac the just plain macbook in the [TS]

  macbook pro yep have bigger keys and [TS]

  less space between the keys the keyboard [TS]

  takes up the exact same amount of area [TS]

  and so the distance between just pick [TS]

  two keys like the center of the a key [TS]

  and the center of the f key r is exactly [TS]

  the same so your fingers resting on the [TS]

  home row are exactly in the same [TS]

  position but for some reason because the [TS]

  keys are bigger I felt for a while like [TS]

  my fingers were spread out more yeah I [TS]

  get that I think that's something I [TS]

  needed to get used to I especially [TS]

  notice it because I use the iPad [TS]

  keyboard all the time and that is those [TS]

  are smaller keys yeah right yeah and so [TS]

  that's when I really notice it and [TS]

  I honestly i think i prefer the ipad [TS]

  keyboard is weird as that sounds I just [TS]

  it's not it's not a perfect keyboard but [TS]

  maybe it is like you're talking about [TS]

  sort of the size of the keys just [TS]

  something about it feels more familiar [TS]

  than typing on the newer keyboards yeah [TS]

  I can kind of see that like you're [TS]

  talking about like the smart key bad [TS]

  yeah everyone I don't believe it's [TS]

  almost like on the smart keyboard cover [TS]

  it it it celebrates the shallowness of [TS]

  the movement whereas on the macbook it's [TS]

  like man I still wish that these keys [TS]

  went in further yes but I can live with [TS]

  that I really read the the difference [TS]

  between my feelings about the new [TS]

  macbook pro keyboard and the previous [TS]

  generation macbook pro keyboard I have [TS]

  thought but the thoughts are much [TS]

  narrower than the thought between what [TS]

  we have now and a hypothetical Virtual [TS]

  Touch bar that was the whole keyboard [TS]

  yeah like well what do you think about [TS]

  this like so the other thing that I that [TS]

  I've chatted with some folks about is [TS]

  the notion of one way that I think they [TS]

  could have alleviated some of the touch [TS]

  bar criticism is like also just putting [TS]

  it at the bottom of the keyboard so in [TS]

  other words keeping the function row [TS]

  that as it was and just adding a new row [TS]

  because like and especially on the [TS]

  macbook so here's the thought here right [TS]

  now they made the the touchpad the touch [TS]

  pad itself right massive it's pretty big [TS]

  now um I think it's bigger than it needs [TS]

  to be for anything and so you could [TS]

  shave that down a little bit and I think [TS]

  if you wanted to do some sort of touch [TS]

  bar type thing put it just above the [TS]

  touchpad and sort of make that the whole [TS]

  touch area especially because apples [TS]

  whole thing as we all know is that [TS]

  they're not going to do a touchscreen [TS]

  macbook imac macbook pro anything and [TS]

  the weirdness of this whole dynamic [TS]

  right now is that they made a touch area [TS]

  that's so close to the screen but isn't [TS]

  the screen and you know they make they [TS]

  have the the famous sort of picture of [TS]

  like you know with a cross out are more [TS]

  like pointing at the screen because it's [TS]

  just not oregano mccreight and it's not [TS]

  that much different in my book to sort [TS]

  of have to go up to this top row and [TS]

  have to sort of manipulate touch [TS]

  that way I would have been much more [TS]

  happy if we're my hands already rest [TS]

  sort of at the bottom you tried to do [TS]

  something with the touch bar and I don't [TS]

  know my I just looking down at my [TS]

  macbook as you say this my problem with [TS]

  that is that my hands would cover it [TS]

  most of the time I think the advantage [TS]

  diving into the top is that you can see [TS]

  it your hands don't cover it whereas [TS]

  this way your hands cover it until you [TS]

  go to look at it but maybe that's okay I [TS]

  don't know if they've if they tinkered [TS]

  without a deer or not but maybe that's [TS]

  okay because it doesn't matter if you [TS]

  see it or not because by the time you go [TS]

  to do something on it you were already [TS]

  moving your hands I don't write [TS]

  especially if you have I mean if they [TS]

  acknowledge that you have to be looking [TS]

  at it to use it already and I just I [TS]

  feel like I don't know I i could see i [TS]

  think some people push back on that like [TS]

  with the notion of what your palms could [TS]

  rest on and could mess it up or [TS]

  something obviously Apple has all the [TS]

  palm detection stuff for the ipad [TS]

  alrighty i'm sure they can figure that [TS]

  out but um I just think like for certain [TS]

  types of things certainly some of the [TS]

  things that they were showing off like [TS]

  the DJing and all that kind of you know [TS]

  fun stuff uh you might not be you know [TS]

  really needing to use the keyboard as [TS]

  much as sort of the touch area to toggle [TS]

  controls and stuff and so in that [TS]

  situation it might make a little bit [TS]

  more sense but I don't know I mean I [TS]

  assume like you said they they may be [TS]

  tried something or thought about it at [TS]

  least and they determined that that [TS]

  wasn't the way to go ma'am I don't know [TS]

  what do you thing about the weight and [TS]

  the size the window size are great I [TS]

  mean it's not so I have right now I have [TS]

  a bunch of machines I've a older macbook [TS]

  pro for that's my work machine that sort [TS]

  of was given to me by the people who [TS]

  dish out computers at work and so that's [TS]

  I think like a two and a half or three [TS]

  year old macbook so an older style [TS]

  macbook pro then I have the macbook the [TS]

  small 13-inch one and then I got the [TS]

  touch touch bar macbook pro and so my [TS]

  other issue there is that while it is [TS]

  obviously more svelte and lighter than [TS]

  the the older macbook pro I have it's [TS]

  not you know anywhere near as light and [TS]

  it's felt as the macbook itself and so [TS]

  if I'm going somewhere where I [TS]

  would want sort of the most portability [TS]

  obviously I know that most people don't [TS]

  have three options of course but when [TS]

  people would ask like well I just want [TS]

  the most poor ability I would say go [TS]

  with the macbook I mean it's it's still [TS]

  the main problem there now is the one [TS]

  USBC port and honestly you know I carry [TS]

  around the dongle of course and it's [TS]

  mildly annoying from time to time but [TS]

  I'm not sure it would be even be that [TS]

  much better if it's just if it had four [TS]

  USB seaports because USBC is still not [TS]

  doesn't seem quite as ubiquitous [TS]

  certainly for the things like I have to [TS]

  you know Lupin things for work all the [TS]

  time and insert a hook up different USB [TS]

  see stuff and I almost always need a [TS]

  converter still so I'm just not sure [TS]

  that that would even sort of alleviate [TS]

  the pain so my biggest problem with the [TS]

  the older macbook and I have the one [TS]

  that's you know came out a couple years [TS]

  ago so it's it's fairly slow but I think [TS]

  a lot of people said that this sort of [TS]

  newer version that came out several [TS]

  months ago is significantly faster so i [TS]

  would go with that one the thing I like [TS]

  the most about it and I think it speaks [TS]

  to your point that we're sort of [TS]

  approaching peak form factor is and it [TS]

  was the to me the part that made my my [TS]

  personal 2014 I think I get mixed up at [TS]

  how old a two-year-old i think i got it [TS]

  in 2014 anyway yeah that makes sense um [TS]

  my 2014 13 inch macbook pro the biggest [TS]

  difference to me and it's it's petty and [TS]

  it has nothing to do with actual [TS]

  computing but it's the ease with which i [TS]

  can open this display that the display [TS]

  just lifts up perfectly and if i want to [TS]

  adjust it slightly i just put one finger [TS]

  on it on the new ones that is and yep [TS]

  and it just it's just absolute the [TS]

  perfect amount of resistance where it [TS]

  never moves if I don't want it to and [TS]

  when I do want to move it it's the least [TS]

  amount of energy possible and it makes [TS]

  my old one feel like it's way too hard [TS]

  and heavy to lift and to me that's it [TS]

  that's the that's the the ideal that the [TS]

  new macbooks have ever more closely [TS]

  approached to I don't know about the [TS]

  regular macbook like when you lift a [TS]

  macbook is it so light that the whole [TS]

  thing lifts up or can you do it yeah [TS]

  it's right that I would say it's a [TS]

  little bit too light for that I still [TS]

  feel the need to sort of [TS]

  yeah like you know weigh it down a [TS]

  little bit while I'm lifting a dollar is [TS]

  the new macbook pros you don't have to [TS]

  do that the new macbook pros even though [TS]

  in theory it's it's worse to be heavier [TS]

  all things considered right they could [TS]

  make one that was every bit as fast and [TS]

  powerful as the macbook yes they would [TS]

  do it they're not going to make it [TS]

  heavier just the Apple is not going to [TS]

  make macbooks heavier just just to make [TS]

  it easier to open them right future but [TS]

  right now I feel like the macbook pros [TS]

  are at this wonderful I deal between the [TS]

  weight of the base where the keyboard in [TS]

  the battery and everything are and the [TS]

  lightness of the display and the ability [TS]

  to lift it up I agree and so right so [TS]

  the form factor is great right it's so [TS]

  great that it's like it's been whittled [TS]

  down to sort of this this uh you know [TS]

  that that level of sort of perfection [TS]

  for exactly what you're talking about [TS]

  what else would they possibly do to it [TS]

  beyond like you know expanding touch bar [TS]

  and doing other things to it but it's [TS]

  like that's the form factor there's my [TS]

  what else are you gonna do to that you [TS]

  can't really change that now no I I [TS]

  don't other than you know and again it's [TS]

  not really changed at a form factor but [TS]

  in theory at some point I presume that [TS]

  they're going to you know it won't be [TS]

  aluminum forever I mean you know I feel [TS]

  like we yes right the macbook still has [TS]

  a decade maybe more ahead of it is it [TS]

  gonna really be aluminum for 20 or 30 [TS]

  years I don't know so new materials you [TS]

  know yep that's basically I do think the [TS]

  form factor is as you know for and for [TS]

  certain tasks it is a wonderful [TS]

  wonderful form factor and I just feel [TS]

  like don't mess with it and I I do [TS]

  wonder there's a part of me that wonders [TS]

  if the touch bar is basically a mess [TS]

  with it for the sake of messing with it [TS]

  freshly right that's exactly what I was [TS]

  basically alluding to in that post um [TS]

  you know they felt like look we're sort [TS]

  of at the perfect storm of two things [TS]

  right now right so what we were just [TS]

  talking about sort of the form factor is [TS]

  we've whittled it down to near [TS]

  perfection right and then on the flip [TS]

  side we have sort of the the CPUs and [TS]

  the internals are basically not getting [TS]

  that much faster now because you know [TS]

  more as Moore's Law is has Sloan down [TS]

  slow down were [TS]

  we're sort of at the point where it's [TS]

  very hard to rationalize a year to year [TS]

  upgrade it's hard to rationalize a two [TS]

  year to year upgrade right for a for a [TS]

  macbook pro because it's just not that [TS]

  much faster than the than what the state [TS]

  of the art was two years ago and so we [TS]

  have those two things coming into play [TS]

  and so when Apple's trying to think [TS]

  about well what do we do this year to [TS]

  get you know to get people excited about [TS]

  potentially buying the new machine you [TS]

  know you can do you can change the [TS]

  colors of it they've done that a little [TS]

  bit of course with some gold and rose [TS]

  gold options and I don't think that that [TS]

  really moves the needle though on uh on [TS]

  making someone purchase a new one and so [TS]

  this touch bar thing it feels like to me [TS]

  that was you know some idea like let's [TS]

  try this you know let's let's see if [TS]

  this is interesting and that's uh that's [TS]

  a dangerous game for Apple to play I [TS]

  think I totally agree and I wonder about [TS]

  and it is clearly to me their most [TS]

  important product I know we just had the [TS]

  whole thing with the mac pro and that [TS]

  there's imax coming out and stuff like [TS]

  that but the macbooks are clearly the [TS]

  bread and butter of the mac lineup you [TS]

  know if they had to cut back for some [TS]

  reason you know that's the last max to [TS]

  go are going to be the macbooks and I [TS]

  wonder you and I have talked about this [TS]

  before and I know a lot of people [TS]

  obviously have different differing [TS]

  thoughts in this but like so the other [TS]

  part I think towards the end of the post [TS]

  I wrote was basically I'm very much in [TS]

  the camp of I would love to just do [TS]

  everything on an iPad I'm milling 19 I'm [TS]

  95 let's say percent of the way there [TS]

  the problem is that other five percent [TS]

  matters and so I just can't do it yet I [TS]

  would love to be in that camp though are [TS]

  you it and I know you're definitely you [TS]

  know still in the macbook camp but if if [TS]

  they could do if they had full sort of [TS]

  parody maybe not you know not quite as [TS]

  easy to do certain things and vice versa [TS]

  but if they had sort of full parity in [TS]

  terms of functionality would you want to [TS]

  use an iPad more than you use the [TS]

  macbook no I don't think so i think the [TS]

  longer time goes on the less likely i am [TS]

  to use to even want to use an ipad i [TS]

  feel like i have the clarity now and i [TS]

  might I feel like but I don't feel [TS]

  like I speak to the the mass market it's [TS]

  I have so many little things little [TS]

  custom nerd scripts and things that I [TS]

  have set to keyboard shortcuts on my Mac [TS]

  that I can't do on the iPad and that [TS]

  even if I wanted to do through workflow [TS]

  or something like that and i'm a super [TS]

  super happy that apple bought workflow [TS]

  and seems to want to keep it around and [TS]

  maybe they'll integrate it in the OS but [TS]

  like I have a shortcut that it's system [TS]

  wide service that I made so that i can [TS]

  convert it the selected text in any app [TS]

  from mark down to HTML and the key [TS]

  command i made for it is command shift k [TS]

  I don't know why I forget why damn [TS]

  because command ship damn is like [TS]

  minimize windows and so I went to K mark [TS]

  I don't know but I don't even have to [TS]

  think about had to pause to remember it [TS]

  because my fingers just know it and I've [TS]

  had it for years yeah but you know the [TS]

  ipad pros like we were just talking [TS]

  about they cut you know you can get the [TS]

  the keyboard that's with it and they you [TS]

  know they have command + Shift + k still [TS]

  I guess that in theory they could add [TS]

  that they could add stuff to the system [TS]

  software that would enable something [TS]

  like that in theory right but the form [TS]

  factor doesn't speak to me either like [TS]

  last week when I was flying home from [TS]

  San Francisco after the the shindig at [TS]

  cupertino I was at the gate at the [TS]

  terminal and I had a couple just a [TS]

  couple of minutes before they started [TS]

  boarding and somebody dm'd me that I had [TS]

  a typo in a DF post and instead of [TS]

  fixing it on my phone I just I knew I [TS]

  had like a couple minutes I just quick [TS]

  took out my macbook from my backpack [TS]

  opened it and just without even sitting [TS]

  down just held it in the palm of my hand [TS]

  and opened it logged in fixed it shut it [TS]

  put it back my backpack like I don't see [TS]

  how you could do that on an iPad I you [TS]

  could do it but you wouldn't have the [TS]

  hardware keyboard there's no way you can [TS]

  just sit there and stand and [TS]

  connect a hardware keyboard and yeah I [TS]

  get that and and I'm sort of the same [TS]

  way that's one of the sort of five [TS]

  percent thing is definitely on the [TS]

  writing side of things so I actually do [TS]

  a lot of writing on the iPad but I'll [TS]

  sort of right in the in the app Ulysses [TS]

  and then I basically export it to medium [TS]

  or wherever I'm going to publish and I [TS]

  don't publish though from there because [TS]

  I wait to do some of the formatting [TS]

  stuff that I can just I feel like I can [TS]

  just have a much better handle on using [TS]

  on a on a macbook and so I wait to [TS]

  publish until after there but that's [TS]

  that's sort of one of the larger parts [TS]

  of the five percent that is still [TS]

  holding me back but in in my butt in my [TS]

  book i'm sort of i'm quite different i [TS]

  guess from you in that regard because i [TS]

  like my ideal computing experience would [TS]

  be where i could go on a trip not have [TS]

  to take any macbook with me just take [TS]

  the the ipad pro with the keyboard cover [TS]

  and you know i do it right now for short [TS]

  little trips or you know just on a daily [TS]

  basis like if i'm going to just do email [TS]

  or and then do some reading and i go to [TS]

  a sort of local cafe I just love [TS]

  grabbing that thing and walking out the [TS]

  door don't ring a bag it's so it just it [TS]

  just feels like this is the way I want [TS]

  to be doing computing in my life and I [TS]

  don't want to have a you know even as we [TS]

  were just talking about even as felt as [TS]

  the macbooks are now I just there's [TS]

  there's too much going on I like the [TS]

  simplicity of doing everything through [TS]

  the iPad I totally see the appeal of it [TS]

  but it doesn't it just doesn't speak to [TS]

  me and I'd you know and I like I pen but [TS]

  for me and again i'm a big proponent i [TS]

  have been for years fighting against the [TS]

  argument that it's fundamentally only [TS]

  good for consumption and not for [TS]

  creation i've argued it but for me [TS]

  personally that actually is very true [TS]

  that I i tend to use it I actually have [TS]

  left the cover of mine for a while now [TS]

  and I just have it with no cover and I [TS]

  read tons on it and I read lots of [TS]

  Twitter and I bookmark things to post [TS]

  the daring fireball later from a [TS]

  different machine from it but it's I [TS]

  tend not to do any actual typing on it [TS]

  but I can see the appeal I totally see [TS]

  the appeal and I would totally see the [TS]

  appeal for long-form writing too I feel [TS]

  like the longer the thing you're writing [TS]

  the more the more pleasant it is and [TS]

  like when I wrote like I [TS]

  did I enjoyed writing my review of the [TS]

  ipad pro on the ipad pro because it was [TS]

  long review uh and I do kind of like [TS]

  that it is naturally distraction-free I [TS]

  find I never used the distraction free [TS]

  full screen modes on the mac for any app [TS]

  ever because I find that it's just just [TS]

  gets in a way when I want to get out of [TS]

  it whereas on the iPad it's totally [TS]

  natural it's you know and I'm a big [TS]

  believer net in general I feel anything [TS]

  you tack on to a system afterwards is [TS]

  never as good as if it was there from [TS]

  the beginning so full screen mode on the [TS]

  mac to me I use it for video and that's [TS]

  about it but otherwise to me it feels [TS]

  tacked on because the mac wasn't [TS]

  designed at the start it was designed to [TS]

  have everything windows that are [TS]

  overlapping you can drag around whereas [TS]

  the ipad was designed from the ground up [TS]

  to have full screen apps yeah I mean I [TS]

  so I do a lot of it you know anything [TS]

  that i write basically like you said [TS]

  sort of that's that's longer than just a [TS]

  blurb or something like that i try to do [TS]

  on the ipad and I just it's something [TS]

  about it reminds me of like when I was a [TS]

  kid growing up going to my father's [TS]

  office and like they had typewriters and [TS]

  just using the typewriter right i mean i [TS]

  know it's obviously very different but [TS]

  something about this focus thing and [TS]

  it's almost like you know there's a [TS]

  there's a blank sheet of paper in front [TS]

  of you and the words are magically [TS]

  appearing on it m and it most things in [TS]

  my life most things in my life are that [TS]

  I'm in control of our complete mess like [TS]

  my desk is usually just a complete Andy [TS]

  Rooney style mess of papers and odd [TS]

  objects and boxes and it all sorts of [TS]

  stuff so I like lots of things I have [TS]

  her a complete mess other things though [TS]

  I try to keep obsessively neat and like [TS]

  the daring fireball homepage would be a [TS]

  fine example there's no clutter you know [TS]

  I aspire to that I wish that I had the [TS]

  organizational ability and the the [TS]

  wherewithal to have everything in my [TS]

  life be like that I I when I see [TS]

  pictures of people who have lived these [TS]

  minimal offices I covet them I do I see [TS]

  the appeal and I do I look at my mac [TS]

  with all of these windows like if i go [TS]

  to expose or whatever and see how many [TS]

  apps i have running and how many windows [TS]

  are actually overlapping sometimes my [TS]

  mac looks like a mess and i do I like [TS]

  the way that the ipad even if you open a [TS]

  second [TS]

  I love how neat it is that if you have [TS]

  like message the messages app on the [TS]

  right in a narrow iphone with column [TS]

  your other thing whether it's Safari or [TS]

  your writing app in a square to the left [TS]

  of it I love how neatly that's organized [TS]

  where there's no overlap there's no [TS]

  shadows from windows showing depth it's [TS]

  just to uh rectangles perfectly aligned [TS]

  I love that and I can see how that is [TS]

  soothing mentally soothing to people and [TS]

  an appealing um since it's sort of the [TS]

  perfect segue and night might not be [TS]

  much to talk about but just curious like [TS]

  so obviously apple released the sort of [TS]

  you know though the cheaper ipad version [TS]

  but they didn't do anything you know as [TS]

  was rumored by many various sites for [TS]

  actual new ipad hardware and so are a [TS]

  presume now were there were at the end [TS]

  of april we're not going to see any sort [TS]

  of event before WWDC so do they do that [TS]

  at wwc do they wait for the fall I don't [TS]

  know it is it's very intriguing to me [TS]

  that the supply chain rumor mill seemed [TS]

  to think it was going to happen you know [TS]

  right like neither last month or the you [TS]

  know the first week of April or [TS]

  something like that and i agree with you [TS]

  i don't i don't eat and I don't hear any [TS]

  rumblings to the ground that there's [TS]

  anything coming before WWDC so I almost [TS]

  feel like it's something that maybe [TS]

  they've successfully kept under wraps so [TS]

  it could happen at WWDC but if they wait [TS]

  into the fall I almost feel like they've [TS]

  got to wait till October because it [TS]

  sounds like after I phone right because [TS]

  I don't think they'd want to share the [TS]

  stage with iPhone because it sounds like [TS]

  they've got a very exciting iphone to [TS]

  unveil and right if it's on schedule [TS]

  it'll be like the second week of [TS]

  September as I said before I mean [TS]

  they've they've been pretty consistent [TS]

  on that for three or four years and I [TS]

  don't think they'd want to share the [TS]

  stage but they could in theory you know [TS]

  it may not be it may come naturally if [TS]

  there's you know like a shared design [TS]

  language of a more edge-to-edge display [TS]

  it could make sense to unveil them side [TS]

  by side I don't know but it would make [TS]

  more sense to me if they did I phones in [TS]

  September and iPads in October and you [TS]

  but you don't think that they would do [TS]

  it at WWDC I guess they could but it [TS]

  depends how much these new iPads which [TS]

  at least some of the you know one of [TS]

  them is rumored to be a more [TS]

  edge-to-edge display where the right you [TS]

  know that the 9.7 inch iPad is still [TS]

  going to be nine point seven inches as a [TS]

  device but that the screen will be 10 [TS]

  points something inches instead of nine [TS]

  point seven inches because it's going to [TS]

  take up more of the front face but that [TS]

  sounds to me like what the rumor is for [TS]

  the iphone and if right and they don't [TS]

  want to they don't want to spoil it [TS]

  right that they want the i reveal come [TS]

  out first right but is that am i [TS]

  overthinking it am i overthinking there [TS]

  you know willingness to just let the [TS]

  product that's ready to ship first ship [TS]

  first whether it's the iphone or not I [TS]

  don't know yeah and if there was some [TS]

  sort of marquee feature in iOS 11 you [TS]

  know that was sort of ipad rhyme or ipad [TS]

  focused maybe but yeah there hasn't been [TS]

  much rumors about iOS 11 at all no even [TS]

  though we're fairly close which is [TS]

  interesting but well other than the fact [TS]

  that there for a while i don't know if [TS]

  you've noticed this but I've heard [TS]

  rumors for a while that months ago I [TS]

  guess more or less when Iowa's 10 came [TS]

  out last WWDC there after the event was [TS]

  over there were rumors beforehand that [TS]

  that Apple might unveil some iPad [TS]

  specific ipad pro specific features you [TS]

  know and that the keynote came and went [TS]

  and there were none and then in the [TS]

  aftermath the word was well that got [TS]

  punted from ten point oh but it's going [TS]

  to come in like 10.2 or something 10.2 [TS]

  over 8.3 but we've gotten to 10.3 and it [TS]

  didn't happen and there's not going to [TS]

  be a 10.4 between now and June because I [TS]

  you know All Hands are working on iOS 11 [TS]

  so whether that ships in iOS 11.0 or not [TS]

  or get punted once again to the first [TS]

  big update you know in december or [TS]

  january of 11.2 I [TS]

  no but that's the way week but there [TS]

  have been recent like this time last [TS]

  year that they [TS]

  year that they [TS]

  have Pro specific improvements to the OS [TS]

  for multitasking and stuff like that and [TS]

  if that is the case and we may have just [TS]

  answer a riddle right that they would [TS]

  they would launch that and presumably [TS]

  they would want to have new iPad pro [TS]

  hardware to show whatever that [TS]

  functionality is off since the ipad pro [TS]

  would be relatively old at that point [TS]

  right over a year between iterations [TS]

  right well and the the 12-inch one the [TS]

  13-inch one would be a year and yeah [TS]

  really oh really alright at this point [TS]

  um I don't know but I mean both of them [TS]

  launched with I feel a lot of headroom [TS]

  to wait for the next version because [TS]

  they really are pretty fast for ipads I [TS]

  mean I've you know they're both you know [TS]

  faster than I don't know if they're [TS]

  faster than the current macbook but i [TS]

  think they are and they're certainly [TS]

  faster than the macbook that you're [TS]

  talking about the original macbook with [TS]

  one port I mean that's how fast they are [TS]

  yep i'm using the big ipad pro right now [TS]

  which I almost never use again speaking [TS]

  to obviously is as we all do we just buy [TS]

  a bunch of devices probably more than we [TS]

  need but it is nice when you're sort of [TS]

  sitting at a desk it's a nice sort of [TS]

  second screen yeah I don't know so I I [TS]

  feel like they need to though and I feel [TS]

  like I feel like selling points on [TS]

  changes to the OS to make it a little [TS]

  bit more you know bring the ipad [TS]

  especially the ipad pro a little bit [TS]

  more towards the mac in terms of [TS]

  capabilities not necessarily copying [TS]

  things from the mac and how you do it [TS]

  but just making it easier um I mean the [TS]

  thing I would like to see them do let me [TS]

  take a break actually I mean I hold this [TS]

  thought and I'll take a break because [TS]

  it's a good good way to keep you posted [TS]

  spent okay I want to talk to you bout [TS]

  our next sponsor I love this company I [TS]

  love their products and I this is a [TS]

  company that I hate to say it but they [TS]

  shouldn't even be paying me to promote [TS]

  their products because I would sing [TS]

  their praises even if they weren't and a [TS]

  company is 0 ee r 0 0 makes Wi-Fi [TS]

  routers for your house [TS]

  you don't have to choose which one they [TS]

  just have one model right now you go you [TS]

  buy like a three pack you plug one of [TS]

  them their little white boxes roughly [TS]

  the size of like an apple TV or [TS]

  something like that that almost looks [TS]

  like an apple design product they ship [TS]

  with apple style really supple even like [TS]

  the ethernet cables they give you in the [TS]

  box are nice it's like a nice ethernet [TS]

  cable it's not like a piece of junk [TS]

  thing that you got from Joe's cables on [TS]

  the corner nice cable nice power cable [TS]

  you plug it into your router and now [TS]

  you've got there's your primary ero base [TS]

  station then you take like the other two [TS]

  and you're like maybe your router is on [TS]

  the first floor you put another one on [TS]

  the second floor and another one on a [TS]

  third floor keep them near the steps try [TS]

  to minimize how many walls has to go [TS]

  through and it creates what's called a [TS]

  mesh network through your house and it [TS]

  is a huge difference now I don't know [TS]

  what you know maybe if you live in if [TS]

  you live in a studio apartment guess [TS]

  what you don't need really need to [TS]

  narrow its a nice base station but you [TS]

  really only need one and it really it'd [TS]

  be a nice space station for that but the [TS]

  mesh network thing isn't going to help [TS]

  you out but if you live in the city like [TS]

  I do we have four floors if you you [TS]

  there's really no way to set up one [TS]

  router that I've ever tried that gets a [TS]

  good Wi-Fi signal everywhere in the [TS]

  house I ended personally I just recently [TS]

  upgraded my comcast service had comcast [TS]

  come in got new internet comcast new [TS]

  router they gave me a router with the [TS]

  the thing in the room where I have it [TS]

  set up in my home office I get like a [TS]

  hundred and fifty two hundred megabits [TS]

  per second over Wi-Fi it's amazing [TS]

  that's amazing performance it's like 10 [TS]

  times faster than what I have before one [TS]

  floor up still pretty good it's like 50 [TS]

  megabits per second something like that [TS]

  but in my master bedroom this is no shit [TS]

  I swear to god this is true I tested [TS]

  this with the speed test app I get 0.2 [TS]

  megabits per second Wi-Fi from that [TS]

  router so it goes from 200 megabits per [TS]

  second 20.2 megabits per second so once [TS]

  the comcast guy was gone and you know I [TS]

  knew I had good internet i reset up my [TS]

  eros I put my ear o in there [TS]

  I only have three now I guess still get [TS]

  200 or so megabits per second in my [TS]

  office from euro but my master bedroom [TS]

  is getting 60 megabits per second Wi-Fi [TS]

  that's how great it is I cannot be and I [TS]

  it I didn't have to configure anything [TS]

  you just you just follow the [TS]

  instructions in their little app and it [TS]

  it just configures everything and they [TS]

  even tell you that it they talk to each [TS]

  other and they fix it up and and after [TS]

  you've set it up like 24 hours later the [TS]

  service is usually even better because [TS]

  the knit the the eros have communicated [TS]

  with each other about where they should [TS]

  hand off to each other cannot tell you [TS]

  how happy I am with this product I [TS]

  recommend it highly I don't know what [TS]

  else to tell you if you need Wi-Fi if [TS]

  you're unhappy with your wife I've [TS]

  indeed new Wi-Fi you'd be silly not to [TS]

  check it out that what they do is they [TS]

  recommend one ero for every thousand [TS]

  square feet of your home three packs a [TS]

  good starting point you can always buy [TS]

  more and you can hook up 10 in total if [TS]

  you need to so here's what you do go to [TS]

  eurocom and use the code actually you [TS]

  know what forget the code screw it [TS]

  here's what they've done they've gotten [TS]

  rid of these codes and to celebrate the [TS]

  first birthday what they've done is [TS]

  they've just dropped their prices [TS]

  permanently so instead of using a code [TS]

  you just go to eurocom and now you can [TS]

  get a three pack for just three hundred [TS]

  ninety nine dollars used to be 499 and [TS]

  you can get a 2-pack for 299 that used [TS]

  to be fifty dollars more so to get here [TS]

  at this new price just go to eurocom and [TS]

  you can get them at best buyer or even [TS]

  amazon if you want they don't care they [TS]

  don't they don't even care if you buy [TS]

  them direct so get if you need Wi-Fi get [TS]

  an arrow love this product I feel like [TS]

  you and I talked about arrow before they [TS]

  were sponsor of your podcast which is [TS]

  that's nice I remember the first time I [TS]

  read you know what I'll get back to my [TS]

  the point I wanted to make about ipad [TS]

  I've got my finger in the air this is my [TS]

  reminder i know the point I want to make [TS]

  calm but we could go on a digression [TS]

  right now I remember the first time I [TS]

  heard about euro was I read it in Walt [TS]

  Mossberg column uh-huh [TS]

  and I read his description of it and I [TS]

  knew that I was suffering from the [TS]

  problem he was talking about at the four [TS]

  years I had an apple airport whatever [TS]

  the best the best apple I think the most [TS]

  still the most recent one because they [TS]

  haven't updated it in years yeah the one [TS]

  they're Ford extreme yeah the one is [TS]

  Gabriel tall yeah I have the same one [TS]

  and i had the same one now i have euro [TS]

  same time I had it on the second floor [TS]

  our living room of a four floor [TS]

  residence and it was ok and it my office [TS]

  was one floor up and it got pretty good [TS]

  Wi-Fi our master bedroom on the fourth [TS]

  floor yeah it wasn't bad wasn't like it [TS]

  is it like it was with this comcast [TS]

  router but it wasn't great um and and [TS]

  for whatever reason our garage on the [TS]

  first floor one floor down got no signal [TS]

  whatsoever I don't know if it's because [TS]

  the garage had insulation I don't know [TS]

  what the heck it was I read waltz column [TS]

  and I was like this sounds amazing [TS]

  because a it solves a problem i have but [TS]

  be he's telling me that I don't have to [TS]

  configure just no you don't you don't go [TS]

  into an admin interface and start typing [TS]

  in IP numbers you don't start picking [TS]

  channels you don't have to set one of [TS]

  them in bridge mode and one of them in [TS]

  something mode you just hook them up and [TS]

  tap buttons in the app as you hook them [TS]

  up around your house and follow their [TS]

  general advice of you know where best to [TS]

  put them and then all of a sudden you've [TS]

  got a network that every room in your [TS]

  house has good internet I was like that [TS]

  sounds so amazing and it was it was [TS]

  little the literal truth that's the [TS]

  exact experience of using it and it's [TS]

  yeah anyway the digression would be [TS]

  waltz announcement that he's retiring [TS]

  yeah obviously significant news within [TS]

  the world in which in which we inhabit [TS]

  um yeah you know like it's funny when I [TS]

  moved to go so I was working as a web [TS]

  developer down in San Diego and sort of [TS]

  writing on the side just for fun and at [TS]

  some point you know VentureBeat at the [TS]

  time came calling and you know wanted me [TS]

  to to sort of come up and consider sort [TS]

  of writing full-time [TS]

  and I just like sort of laughed to [TS]

  myself like thinking like no one can [TS]

  make a living sort of doing that all [TS]

  right like I mean you know it's almost [TS]

  like too good to be true and you know [TS]

  around you know the same time there I [TS]

  think there had been a like a profile or [TS]

  maybe I was even just googling it but [TS]

  just like you know the story of the rise [TS]

  of Walt Mossberg sort of getting into [TS]

  obviously it wasn't blogging at the time [TS]

  it was for the wall street journal but [TS]

  sort of making his way into this thing [TS]

  that hadn't existed before right he was [TS]

  he was covering politics and then all of [TS]

  a sudden he decided he was going to [TS]

  cover personal technology and again not [TS]

  blogging exactly but you know not too [TS]

  dissimilar from from I think what sort [TS]

  of the ideal state for a lot of us [TS]

  certainly for me at the time you know [TS]

  that's what I aspired something to do [TS]

  something like that right I just read up [TS]

  I will I swear to God put it in the show [TS]

  notes there's an interview I think it [TS]

  just came out today but if not it came [TS]

  out last night an interview with with [TS]

  Walt and the columbia journalism review [TS]

  right i haven't read it yet but i saved [TS]

  it as well yeah he was at 1991 he was [TS]

  the lead national security correspondent [TS]

  for The Wall Street Journal which is the [TS]

  columbia journalism review says is [TS]

  literally one of the most coveted spots [TS]

  in all of newspaper journalism I mean it [TS]

  probably you know you could count it on [TS]

  one hand as the one of the most [TS]

  prestigious gigs you know the Journal [TS]

  the New York Times Wall Street [TS]

  Washington Post and a handful of the top [TS]

  jobs there would be something like that [TS]

  because national security is of utmost [TS]

  importance and when something breaks it [TS]

  it's you know it becomes you know you [TS]

  own the top pick you know top right [TS]

  corner of the front page of the [TS]

  newspaper and I mean just no breaking [TS]

  news is more important than national [TS]

  security news all right so he had the [TS]

  job he obviously had decades ahead of [TS]

  him in his career and he gave it up to [TS]

  create what was there then unheard of [TS]

  which was an in a national major [TS]

  newspaper a personal technology clump [TS]

  everybody you know like like the CGR [TS]

  said that most people in [TS]

  Street you know news people were like oh [TS]

  boy what did he do why did he get this [TS]

  terrible demotion for great um yeah I've [TS]

  tried to think of like what the [TS]

  equivalent thing would be today and it's [TS]

  hard to come up with something because [TS]

  like because honestly it's hard to it's [TS]

  hard to envision something that would [TS]

  sort of become as pervasive as as just [TS]

  technology in general right like you [TS]

  could say like oh I'm going to stop the [TS]

  Apple beat because I want to write about [TS]

  Bitcoin um and you know people would be [TS]

  like but you're on the you know you're [TS]

  covering the most valuable company in [TS]

  the world why do you want to write about [TS]

  sort of this this nascent technology [TS]

  thing and you know like it's a it was [TS]

  one hell of a leap a faith that he did [TS]

  and obviously like I said he sort of you [TS]

  know was the the is a pinnacle of doing [TS]

  that and I think you know the whole [TS]

  generations of Engadget's gizmodo's you [TS]

  know all the people who were doing [TS]

  gadget reviews certainly you know that [TS]

  that was the pinnacle and then you know [TS]

  just in general sort of writing a [TS]

  technology called I can't say it better [TS]

  than him here's waltz exact words in [TS]

  this interview there were a bunch of [TS]

  computer columns in a lot of other [TS]

  newspapers and certainly there were [TS]

  computer magazines but these were all [TS]

  written by geeks for geeks my pits to [TS]

  the journal was that I wanted to write a [TS]

  column that didn't use a lot of jargon [TS]

  that treated people with respect for [TS]

  their intelligence and I think that can [TS]

  not be understated that that was the [TS]

  gist of Walt's it still is the gist of [TS]

  Walt's writing that it was never [TS]

  computers for dummies it was it was his [TS]

  angle was that the problem is with the [TS]

  complicated stuff not with the people [TS]

  who can't understand the complicated [TS]

  stuff and that it did two things one [TS]

  help people figure out how to make this [TS]

  journey in the technology by telling [TS]

  them what was good and what was bad on [TS]

  the market explaining when some new [TS]

  development happened what it meant what [TS]

  it was who it might be for that was one [TS]

  of my goals and the other one was to use [TS]

  the power of the platform and the voice [TS]

  that I would have in this column because [TS]

  it was an opinion column in a way to [TS]

  push the industry to stop ignoring [TS]

  normal people and stop treating him like [TS]

  they were stupid [TS]

  that was it that was my idea and it [TS]

  worked and I can't see I mean I cannot [TS]

  say it oh that's that's absolutely [TS]

  perfect because he sort of he basically [TS]

  whether you could argue you know he [TS]

  helped certainly helped usher that era [TS]

  in but he also just he foresaw the fact [TS]

  that it would move from you know sort of [TS]

  the enthusiasts and in and geeky people [TS]

  just being really into technology and [TS]

  and you know reading things like PC [TS]

  world and things like that to actually [TS]

  going into a mainstream thing and like I [TS]

  mean it is you know one of the most [TS]

  mainstream things right now is [TS]

  technology right like there's every [TS]

  single person in the world in some [TS]

  capacity uses some sort of technology [TS]

  and we could you imagine sort of if you [TS]

  know if the pc worlds were still sort of [TS]

  the the norm in sort of writing about [TS]

  that it would seem insane right now [TS]

  because no one would have sort of a [TS]

  guide to figure out how to use any of [TS]

  this stuff and the timing is just [TS]

  amazing that he did it and he'd made [TS]

  this decision in 1991 because in my [TS]

  opinion what made computers mainstream [TS]

  arguably to fold but i think it's single [TS]

  fold i think windows 95 obviously had [TS]

  some part of it where the mass-market [TS]

  lower-cost pcs jump from having a really [TS]

  Jenky operating system like windows 31 [TS]

  to having something that looked pretty [TS]

  nice and was a little certainly a lot [TS]

  better organized but the bigger thing is [TS]

  just the internet itself which is that [TS]

  and and you know people who love [TS]

  computers i certainly didn't foresee it [TS]

  I you know I was of the opinion as [TS]

  somebody a kid who grew up loving [TS]

  computers I couldn't understand why [TS]

  everybody else didn't love computers and [TS]

  want to spend as many hours a day as [TS]

  they possibly could on computers but for [TS]

  normal people what made computers [TS]

  something that they didn't care about [TS]

  something they cared about deeply was [TS]

  that they got turned into communication [TS]

  devices they its communication [TS]

  everything it you know humans are [TS]

  creatures res were born to want to [TS]

  communicate with each other and did [TS]

  technologies that allow us to do so are [TS]

  the ones that rock it off I mean you [TS]

  could even talk about the automobile [TS]

  from the Henry Ford era a century ago as [TS]

  altima tlie is a communications device [TS]

  you know that yes you could use it to [TS]

  bring things from one place to another [TS]

  faster than you could [TS]

  but the fact that you could go visit [TS]

  people who you couldn't visit because [TS]

  you wouldn't have time to get there is a [TS]

  huge part of it right and computers [TS]

  before they were communication devices [TS]

  or went in like the dial-up modem era [TS]

  when you had to dial in and telnet into [TS]

  a bulletin board and use you know [TS]

  cryptic command line things and nobody [TS]

  would understand it like geeks got it [TS]

  early we spent time on bulletin boards [TS]

  communicating with each other but when [TS]

  simple be easy to understand [TS]

  communication technology became [TS]

  available on the Internet it does when [TS]

  it exploded but Walt had his column from [TS]

  1991 55 years before that and so he was [TS]

  already established as this voice of [TS]

  authority when the explosion already [TS]

  happened yeah and and I mean the most [TS]

  obvious thing in the world is that the [TS]

  the iphone was the ultimate [TS]

  extrapolation of that right because then [TS]

  you had the not only was it a physical [TS]

  communication device it blended [TS]

  everything together and you had it with [TS]

  you all the time right one thing that I [TS]

  was curious to your your take about this [TS]

  topic on with you know with Walt moving [TS]

  on was who do you think takes up the [TS]

  mantle then as sort of the I guess that [TS]

  go to either technology columnist or [TS]

  reviewer you know we know the names who [TS]

  are sort of at the at the bigger places [TS]

  you know Farhad Manjoo at the New York [TS]

  Times Wall Street Journal is still doing [TS]

  the combo right of right with Johanna [TS]

  and with Joyner right and the other guy [TS]

  but so what and then David Pogue I you [TS]

  know is still at yahoo i guess or is he [TS]

  nod i don't even know like what's going [TS]

  to happen is he going to be a duck so [TS]

  but i feel like i don't know because [TS]

  yeah whose future is so uncertain it [TS]

  right is he gonna be a ethos or whatever [TS]

  the hell that govern he's gonna become [TS]

  so Oh Jeffrey Fowler yes Jeffrey color [TS]

  sorry Jeffrey sorry Jeffrey uh but so [TS]

  like so what how do you think that that [TS]

  plays out or is it not one of the giant [TS]

  you know sort of old-school publications [TS]

  is it some some other is it so mark [TS]

  Gurman you know was announced this [TS]

  morning [TS]

  Bloomberg's launching a like a gadget [TS]

  show with with Garmin oh I didn't see [TS]

  that yeah it was unlike I said axia so [TS]

  Axios you know the new uh the new [TS]

  newsletter thing from lyon and that [TS]

  group um yeah they broke the story about [TS]

  uh it looks like it's going I don't know [TS]

  exactly what is going to be cult Alden i [TS]

  had actually had to link here so i got [TS]

  it up but yeah i was just talking about [TS]

  axios because inna freed is took over [TS]

  and as running the technology beat for [TS]

  them and she was at the Apple shindig [TS]

  last weekend I was talking to her about [TS]

  it it's an interesting format and i said [TS]

  to her i said you know i'm not just [TS]

  saying this because you're here but i [TS]

  have to say that especially politics [TS]

  wise you know i'm more keenly attuned [TS]

  every ever since november and in the [TS]

  last few months it's surprising how many [TS]

  of the links that have bubbled up to the [TS]

  surface politically have been axio sites [TS]

  like it didn't take very long after [TS]

  axios launched before I I noticed it and [TS]

  I was like how long has this been around [TS]

  because all of a sudden this is in my [TS]

  it's popping up every day and then I [TS]

  checked and I was like oh it's only like [TS]

  two weeks old yeah it's not like I'm a [TS]

  oh yeah it's like right from the get-go [TS]

  though actually been as they're doing [TS]

  great and that not to do too much of an [TS]

  aside on the aside but yeah so you know [TS]

  in my world in my current world in vc [TS]

  obviously everyone was reading dan [TS]

  primack it when he was at fortune his [TS]

  newsletter and he moved over to Axios [TS]

  sort of around the time of their launch [TS]

  and then they have the mike allen guy [TS]

  who famously sort of wrote the you know [TS]

  the politico newsletter for a long time [TS]

  and it's insane because he literally [TS]

  writes it every single day and just [TS]

  fills it with a ton of content every [TS]

  single day it seems to get legitimate [TS]

  inside the White House scoops and [TS]

  obviously prime it gets his scoop Cena [TS]

  will get hers and it's just like on down [TS]

  the line they have a they have a pretty [TS]

  killer product and team yeah yeah they [TS]

  really it's they did a very keen job of [TS]

  focusing on just getting great talent [TS]

  just you know they have a great format [TS]

  and I like you know it's a good it looks [TS]

  good there's not i don't see any clutter [TS]

  on screen that is annoying me it's [TS]

  they've got this focus on writing really [TS]

  short articles that just get to the [TS]

  point which I think goes over really [TS]

  well like [TS]

  there's no padding in the articles but [TS]

  they've got great talent on all these [TS]

  beats which is to me a great combination [TS]

  it's a good format with a good focus its [TS]

  user-friendly and they've assembled a [TS]

  really good team of talented people with [TS]

  with deep sources so anyway and they do [TS]

  a grit and just they do a great job with [TS]

  brevity to like they don't just they [TS]

  don't drag on that's what I'm saying [TS]

  long way so much on the web that drags [TS]

  on because it's like they want now it's [TS]

  like I feel like in the old days the [TS]

  problem like eight nine years ago was [TS]

  that the sites because they were [TS]

  counting pages they would break up with [TS]

  breakup articles you know click here for [TS]

  next page next page but now I feel like [TS]

  articles are padded for the sake of [TS]

  being able to algorithmically interrupt [TS]

  between paragraphs to insert either ads [TS]

  or promotions for other thing on the [TS]

  site and so yeah I noticed they're [TS]

  mostly reading on the phone is it there [TS]

  was just oh my god I forget who it was I [TS]

  don't want to mention it because I don't [TS]

  want to give him any attention but there [TS]

  was an article I was reading last night [TS]

  where they had three interruptions in [TS]

  the same article to promote a pot a new [TS]

  podcast that they were launching for the [TS]

  same podcast three times in the article [TS]

  between paragraphs and on the phone it's [TS]

  a huge it's a huge interruption between [TS]

  like where your eyes find the next [TS]

  paragraph or anyway Axios does a good [TS]

  job on them so Gurman singh is called [TS]

  gadgets with german huh that's a great [TS]

  idea bloomberg show so it's going to be [TS]

  a digital video series that they're [TS]

  going to launch across all the Bloomberg [TS]

  stuff including the terminal it sounds [TS]

  like but then they're going to package [TS]

  it together and eventually sort of put [TS]

  it on Bloomberg Television as well yeah [TS]

  I know he's been very onerous I know [TS]

  that's why you know I can't say I'm [TS]

  close friends with him but I certainly [TS]

  done friendly with him he's been on the [TS]

  show and whenever you know I like and [TS]

  now that now that he's you know really [TS]

  gone pro he's he's getting invited to [TS]

  Apple events and I always try to make [TS]

  make a point of saying hi I know from [TS]

  talking to him that a big reason he went [TS]

  to Bloomberg instead of anywhere else [TS]

  was the promise of video and TV stuff [TS]

  you know these right he's interested in [TS]

  that so I'm not surprised at all that [TS]

  he's getting his own thing [TS]

  but so you know it amongst those people [TS]

  or someone else like is there's someone [TS]

  who takes up that mantle or are we just [TS]

  in an era now where it's so it's such [TS]

  the norm that there's going to be sort [TS]

  of the you know five to ten go to serve [TS]

  it I don't think there is anybody it [TS]

  takes the mantle from mossberg I really [TS]

  don't and and I just don't I just don't [TS]

  see how it happens because I don't see [TS]

  it's not like the New York Times The [TS]

  Wall Street Journal aren't still [TS]

  important but they're differently [TS]

  important now where I don't feel like [TS]

  they have singular voice maybe like on [TS]

  the new york times op-ed page you know [TS]

  like a Paul Krugman and Maureen Dowd [TS]

  still have that influence but I don't [TS]

  know in technology I just don't see it i [TS]

  just it i think the fact that Walt was [TS]

  there so early and was so established [TS]

  that it combined with the incredible [TS]

  power of the Wall Street Journal even [TS]

  today I mean wall street journal is [TS]

  still super popular but the fact that he [TS]

  was doing it at the journal I just don't [TS]

  see how anybody's going to take that [TS]

  position it's almost like you know [TS]

  Michael Jordan retires who takes over as [TS]

  Michael Jordan like maybe they're really [TS]

  Braun who comes along but I I think [TS]

  whoever that is isn't here yet yeah it's [TS]

  gonna have to be sort of different thing [TS]

  maybe even a different format right now [TS]

  and you know maybe this this German [TS]

  thing becomes interesting i do think [TS]

  like you know some of some of the other [TS]

  other folks who have great history like [TS]

  steven levy is a good good friend of [TS]

  mine obviously he's still getting a you [TS]

  know some amazing stories for for his [TS]

  back channel stuff which is underwired [TS]

  now and you know there's there's going [TS]

  to be sort of there's still the the [TS]

  group of folks who have so much prestige [TS]

  around them and the bigger companies are [TS]

  still comfortable sort of you know [TS]

  talking to them versus you know just [TS]

  some some random person like you said [TS]

  like sort of when when Mark was that [TS]

  when mark Gurman was at a 9to5 mac he [TS]

  didn't get invited to any of the Apple [TS]

  things right even though he's breaking [TS]

  every single story it was already too [TS]

  late come to the enhance right like what [TS]

  he was doing that was that was that was [TS]

  adding adding to the overall quantity of [TS]

  the information in the world had nothing [TS]

  to do with what was at the event it was [TS]

  you know [TS]

  five months before the event right I I [TS]

  feel like the closest would be and I [TS]

  wonder it I think he did the right thing [TS]

  because I think part of being pression [TS]

  with Walt was that I think he was I [TS]

  think he was smart to go to create the [TS]

  all things D brand while at the wall [TS]

  street journal and and it did again the [TS]

  columbia journalism review mentions that [TS]

  they did that he and kara swisher did [TS]

  that when the consensus among print [TS]

  journalists was still to treat the web [TS]

  as an ugly stepchild right right you're [TS]

  writing primarily for print and then [TS]

  there's some b team that takes the print [TS]

  stuff after it after it's gone through [TS]

  the print process and i don't put it on [TS]

  the web thing or whatever you know [TS]

  treated as an ugly stepchild i mean here [TS]

  in Philadelphia if I don't want to go on [TS]

  a super long side but that Philadelphia [TS]

  the two newspapers are the Inquirer in [TS]

  the Daily News and they made a decision [TS]

  in the late 90s that rather than focus [TS]

  on having like Enquirer calm and philly [TS]

  daily news com or whatever you want to [TS]

  call the domains be a quality things [TS]

  they made like a joint thing called [TS] and they had content from [TS]

  both newspapers but they just sort it [TS]

  was never really clear which articles [TS]

  were from which paper even though they [TS]

  independently has print operations they [TS]

  were completely separate and rivals it's [TS]

  completely separate rivals even though [TS]

  they were under the same parent [TS]

  obligation our organization but the [TS]

  Philly comp and it was an ugly website [TS]

  it was slow to load they always they [TS]

  were at the forefront of using paywalls [TS]

  and and it almost bankrupted the comet [TS]

  it did bankrupt the company the company [TS]

  isn't it you know they ended up having [TS]

  to sell their their magnificent [TS]

  headquarters and and move into you know [TS]

  genki office space and it you know not [TS]

  treating the web seriously really almost [TS]

  ran him into the ground I would say what [TS]

  was it the opposite where Walt was you [TS]

  know with all things D they they were [TS]

  like will make you know will write for [TS]

  the web first yep it will make white [TS]

  only content that plus the conference [TS]

  business I mean right you know they [TS]

  which came favorite curva 2003 and I [TS]

  think they started the all things D [TS]

  website in 2007 I also think that you [TS]

  know leaving leaving the journal for the [TS]

  lab [TS]

  you know what five six years of his [TS]

  career to start recode at which they [TS]

  then merged with you know box and and [TS]

  the verge it cetera was probably the [TS]

  right thing to do I really do think so [TS]

  and I think it was at an eye on the [TS]

  future but I wonder how much it lessened [TS]

  his influence like yeah like I'd serve [TS]

  really for Cara and and what she does [TS]

  best with breaking scoops it's fine I [TS]

  think in fact it's why I don't think I [TS]

  think it was all win and in fact that [TS]

  she's got equity in the thing and the [TS]

  scoops go out to everybody who cares [TS]

  about scoops when they come out but for [TS]

  mossberg thing of being a sort of a [TS]

  spokesperson for the everyman fright as [TS]

  a product reviewer I do wonder whether [TS]

  his his voice was lessened by leaving [TS]

  the journal right and I mean that's [TS]

  that's the hard the hard you know sort [TS]

  of gap to close because every man it may [TS]

  not read The Wall Street Journal you [TS]

  know only but like they know of the Wall [TS]

  Street Journal he ever man knows the [TS]

  wall street journal they'll know Walt [TS]

  Mossberg at the wall street journal and [TS]

  certainly he had a big enough name for [TS]

  when he leaves the wall street journal [TS]

  to take some of that audience with him [TS]

  but it will never be the full audience [TS]

  of a you know a nationwide distributed [TS]

  paper and so right I it was almost like [TS]

  was recode more of a you know sort of [TS]

  back to the tech enthusiast crowd versus [TS]

  the everyman crap right like Walt [TS]

  writing never didn't change like right [TS]

  you know I don't think that you could [TS]

  Pepsi challenge the difference between [TS]

  waltz columns under the RICO tour verge [TS]

  banner and his vered you know columns [TS]

  under the journal banner he had the same [TS]

  style and the same approach and the same [TS]

  attitude if you just look at the words [TS]

  but I think it reached fewer people i [TS]

  think it was almost like a magnifier [TS]

  were he built the walt mossberg brand [TS]

  where if you put a quote up in a keynote [TS]

  and just had a quote from walt mossberg [TS]

  that says a lot right there but walt [TS]

  mossberg comma the wall street journal [TS]

  is like a it's like a multiplier because [TS]

  now you've got both the power of the [TS]

  wall street journal brand combined you [TS]

  know x the power of Walt's personal [TS]

  brand yeah and so I mean that speaks to [TS]

  why it was probably the smart move [TS]

  then do the sort of devoxx sale and [TS]

  emerge basically you know with the verge [TS]

  because it is well you know we can argue [TS]

  about whether it's been successful yet [TS]

  in doing so it is trying to reach a more [TS]

  mainstream audience rather than you know [TS]

  what I think what recode was doing [TS]

  itself which was much more targeted [TS]

  right and I'm you know obviously I'm a [TS]

  I'm surprise surprise i'm a big [TS]

  proponent of writers and independent [TS]

  journalists going off on her own and [TS]

  building their own brands but i'm also [TS]

  keenly aware of the brand equity of [TS]

  things like the journal in new york [TS]

  times I feel like pogies in the same [TS]

  boat where career-wise it might have [TS]

  been exactly the right there I'm not [TS]

  criticizing him in the least might have [TS]

  been exactly the right thing to go to [TS]

  yahoo and and you know it might be great [TS]

  for his career and his family and his [TS]

  personal finances but I can't help but [TS]

  think that if Pogue were still at the [TS]

  New York Times he might be in that [TS]

  position to sort of take over as the de [TS]

  facto like David Bogut the New York [TS]

  Times is a much more powerful voice and [TS]

  brand and David Pogue it at Yahoo tech [TS]

  or whatever the umbrellas yeah it's sort [TS]

  of interesting I know it's not a direct [TS]

  analogy and it's in some ways probably [TS]

  unfair but it's like you know reminds me [TS]

  of sort of like the siskel and ebert [TS]

  thing right when they were at sort of [TS]

  the the pinnacle of doing film reviews [TS]

  and and of course the getting the [TS]

  television show and everything doing [TS]

  that and then uh it you know both [TS]

  unfortunately passed away and like who [TS]

  then takes up that mantle and they're [TS]

  really you know there's some people like [TS]

  AO scott at the New York Times who I [TS]

  think is great and and there's a handful [TS]

  of other people but no one has entered [TS]

  has that same influence a perfect [TS]

  example that I I think there is no [TS]

  there's no no more Siskel and Ebert and [TS]

  even after Gene Siskel died I think [TS]

  Ebert Ebert was enough of a voice where [TS]

  he was still yes he was still up the [TS]

  right but after after he died that [TS]

  nobody really took that I can't think of [TS]

  who I would think you know I personally [TS]

  do like AO scott i personally i love to [TS]

  hate read [TS]

  uh what's his name Anthony lane in The [TS]

  New Yorker oh right yep yep I read those [TS]

  two yep I I get to the end of every [TS]

  issue of The New Yorker and I I either [TS]

  if I ever see I don't read them unless [TS]

  I've seen the movie but as sometimes I [TS]

  keep all fans and I kept Markham and [TS]

  then when I do see the movie I go back [TS]

  and I do the same exact if I can really [TS]

  Anthony lanes and I do the exact same [TS]

  thing for the same reason or rip it up [TS]

  and i wanted i want to just the parolees [TS]

  ripped up reviews in his face and say [TS]

  you joyless yeah don't you realize that [TS]

  sometimes a movie has just meant to be [TS]

  fun night but he's very good at writing [TS]

  those reviews so I still read all but I [TS]

  can't say that like I anybody's like [TS]

  that like Ebert i would say that yeah [TS]

  Walt is sort of the burden cisco [TS]

  combined baby anyway yeah anyway good [TS]

  luck oh it's gonna be weird it's gonna [TS]

  be weird not seeing him around I tell [TS]

  you that yeah I'd are you going to all [TS]

  be at the coat conference for i guess [TS]

  that's where he's saying the the the [TS]

  actual goodbyes so that'll be an [TS]

  interesting i've never gone I should see [TS]

  if i can i can wrangle in it it is I you [TS]

  know that's it that's a promote right [TS]

  that to be a promotion here but it is a [TS]

  very good conference they do a very good [TS]

  job I think the reason I never have even [TS]

  thought about seeing if i could go is [TS]

  that it seemed so close to WWDC and I'm [TS]

  the air of a homebody and I don't want [TS]

  to go away two times in shorts again and [TS]

  it's in Southern California not not a [TS]

  pure so right well I don't care it just [TS]

  did do all the matters to museum [TS]

  gazillion thousand miles away from home [TS]

  but can't be away from that u haul desk [TS]

  of yours so you wanna do you want to go [TS]

  back to your iPad well pointa let me [TS]

  finish the survey over one more sponsor [TS]

  to think and then I'll go back to my [TS]

  iPad point which is not perfect and it's [TS]

  our good friends one of the best [TS]

  sponsors fracture fracture is a photo [TS]

  decor company here's what they do you [TS]

  send them your personal photos you pick [TS]

  a size and they have all sorts of sizes [TS]

  to pick from and then they print your [TS]

  photos directly on glass you've probably [TS]

  heard about them before you've probably [TS]

  heard me talk about them they've been a [TS]

  longtime sponsor I cannot emphasize what [TS]

  a great gift this item is now as we [TS]

  record [TS]

  it's the middle April mother's day is [TS]

  coming up I don't know if there's time [TS]

  left maybe as you hear me listen to the [TS]

  words that are coming out of my mouth [TS]

  you can hurry up and order some [TS]

  fractures for mother's day if not order [TS]

  them for Father's Day these are the [TS]

  these are the greatest gifts of all time [TS]

  that i have i've given them out to [TS]

  members on both sides of our family and [TS]

  every single time even to people who've [TS]

  we've given them to before it's it's [TS]

  it's you ever give a gift and and then [TS]

  you're like wow and it was great it was [TS]

  like well received you're like wow i [TS]

  wish i could give them the same gift [TS]

  again next year guess what with fracture [TS]

  you can you can just pick new photos of [TS]

  kids who are growing up or trips that [TS]

  you've been on or anything that's [TS]

  happened in the last year it's a great [TS]

  gift and you can give it to them again [TS]

  and again and again and it goes over [TS]

  well he's time and they don't think that [TS]

  the day reaction is never one of these [TS]

  again your reaction is always oh my god [TS]

  that's beautiful thank you so much great [TS]

  photos printed directly on class they do [TS]

  it right down in Gainesville Florida [TS]

  they're made in the USA and if you've [TS]

  never seen one in person I just can't [TS]

  say how cool it is to have an edge to [TS]

  edge photo no bezel it just goes right [TS]

  from one edge to another and they comes [TS]

  with all the stuff you need to mount it [TS]

  on a wall and it just looks so striking [TS]

  to have a really high quality photo that [TS]

  looks like it's printed directly on [TS]

  glass on the wall with no frame no bezel [TS]

  just edge to edge glass that is pure [TS]

  photo it's a great great gift it's a [TS]

  great product for your own home if [TS]

  you've got walls to fill and decorate [TS]

  where do you go go to fracture mean calm [TS]

  / podcast and that sounds like a fill-in [TS]

  URL that I'm botching like it's supposed [TS]

  to be my own code but it's not it's just [TS]

  fracturing calm / podcasts all they do [TS]

  is keep track of all the people who come [TS]

  from any podcast and in the end when you [TS]

  buy something they will ask you a walk [TS]

  one question survey which is where'd you [TS]

  hear a fracture from that's where you [TS]

  can say the talk show or daring fireball [TS]

  or whatever you want to say and they'll [TS]

  know you came from here so my thanks to [TS]

  that go ahead and buy them their [TS]

  greatest gift you ever FF fracture [TS] fracture me calm [TS]

  all right back to the ipad here's the [TS]

  thing i would like to see them do my [TS]

  biggest request would be to have a multi [TS]

  tasking mode similar to the one they [TS]

  have now where you arrange multiple apps [TS]

  in full full height columns but i would [TS]

  like to be able to make them I don't [TS]

  know exactly I don't have I haven't [TS]

  envisioned or invented an interface to [TS]

  make this to figure out exactly how they [TS]

  to do it but I would like to have it be [TS]

  more arbitrary so if you want to have [TS]

  three you could have three if you want [TS]

  to drag one from the middle to the left [TS]

  you could somehow drag the you know put [TS]

  your finger in like the nav bar or [TS]

  something or do a long press on it and [TS]

  drag it over rearrange them um and I [TS]

  would like them to do away with it [TS]

  bothers me somehow and I can't quite put [TS]

  my finger on but it just feels like the [TS]

  whole thing it still makes the whole [TS]

  field thing feel tacked on to me that [TS]

  the left one is always main and the [TS]

  right one is like the junior app right [TS]

  right it doesn't feel right to me it [TS]

  doesn't feel it's like on the Mac [TS]

  there's never it's there's a front most [TS]

  window and then there's all other [TS]

  windows and they're all equal and if you [TS]

  click on one it becomes frontmost and [TS]

  it's every bit as legit as the other [TS]

  ones like so if i have three apps on my [TS]

  ipad in columns side by side when i'm in [TS]

  the middle one I feel like it should be [TS]

  every bit the real the main app as it [TS]

  would be as if it were the left one and [TS]

  secondarily I would like them to figure [TS]

  out a way to more visually clarify which [TS]

  one is the is currently has the focus [TS]

  right all right um but so with that [TS]

  three the notion of three does that work [TS]

  ratio wise for sort of the you know how [TS]

  big the Attic because I think that if [TS]

  you do the size classes right it could [TS]

  be it your apps should rearrange [TS]

  themselves you know should use out using [TS]

  auto layout etc to any arbitrary with [TS]

  you shouldn't be worried about exact [TS]

  whether it's exactly you know 767 pixels [TS]

  or I got that wrong but you know that [TS]

  did you shouldn't be worried about [TS]

  hitting this short list of exact pixel [TS]

  widths you should be in [TS]

  like a mac app you should be able to [TS]

  rearrange to any arbitrary width I'm not [TS]

  saying that the that the ipad should let [TS]

  you drag the little divider and change [TS]

  it from 750 pixels to 748 pixels I feel [TS]

  like the fact that the ipad isn't so [TS]

  fussy and has these set sizes that it [TS]

  that the apps clip2 is actually nice [TS]

  Yeah right like it's it's always [TS]

  bothered me a little that you that when [TS]

  you resize a mac app window that it's [TS]

  never really perfect it's always just [TS]

  where you know whichever wherever you [TS]

  left off the mouse right so you want you [TS]

  want a combination of those things like [TS]

  be just it being strict in sort of [TS]

  formatting but just being more options [TS]

  for what you write how you can format it [TS]

  right and I don't want infinite options [TS]

  I feel like you know like a 9.7 inch [TS]

  iPad maybe the maximum is three maybe on [TS]

  the dry point nine the maximum is for [TS]

  you know I trust Apple to work that out [TS]

  but if i want to go 5050 I want to have [TS]

  two that are exactly 50 50 or if I want [TS]

  to go like two-thirds one-third I could [TS]

  do that very easily and if i want to go [TS]

  one-third one-third one-third 43 I could [TS]

  do that easily uh and do you do you [TS]

  think now I assume the ipad certainly [TS]

  the ipad pros at the point where it [TS]

  could run three apps simultaneously [TS]

  without an issue i think so without [TS]

  question and especially with the way [TS]

  that yeah i think so i think it has an [TS]

  ax frame to do that um yeah i would love [TS]

  to see something like that i think you [TS]

  know one of the biggest drawbacks it's [TS]

  not huge but it one that I have because [TS]

  I use the I've had a ton is just there's [TS]

  still a little cutesy with sort of [TS]

  switching between the apps you know they [TS]

  still have sort of these the animations [TS]

  that go on so sort of you know flip it [TS]

  around and whatnot and it just makes it [TS]

  a little bit longer than it needs to be [TS]

  right and so if you're really into like [TS]

  using two apps yeah I know you could do [TS]

  this side by side things and I do that [TS]

  for certain maps it makes sense to do [TS]

  that for but i would even just like it [TS]

  just make it as fast as possible to [TS]

  switch between two yeah i did they [TS]

  tweaked that in iOS 10.3 and i think [TS]

  it's a little bit fast yeah a shorten [TS]

  some of the animation times [TS]

  yeah like I'm using it right now yeah i [TS]

  mean it is faster because it slides [TS]

  right in now but they still you know [TS]

  there's still cute a little cutesy with [TS]

  the animations yeah and it the longer [TS]

  you use a computer like the more that [TS]

  you use an ipad as like your main [TS]

  writing computer it the more those [TS]

  animations great on you because the more [TS]

  sensitive you are to knowing that you're [TS]

  waiting for the animation and not really [TS]

  waiting for the computer total and i [TS]

  feel like in the classic days like in [TS]

  the original mac like 84 85 86 when the [TS]

  first max first came out and and you [TS]

  know the in hindsight they were [TS]

  desperately desperately slow and [TS]

  desperately starved for every resource [TS]

  you can imagine disk space and ram and [TS]

  video ram and everything when you [TS]

  double-click something and you got those [TS]

  zoom rectangles that showed it coming up [TS]

  part of it was to help you understand [TS]

  okay you've opened this folder and its [TS]

  opening into a window and the animation [TS]

  would help you do that but the other [TS]

  reason your animations were there was to [TS]

  give you something to look at while you [TS]

  were waiting for the computer to [TS]

  actually do it because it wasn't going [TS]

  to happen instantaneously anyway whereas [TS]

  sort of solving two birds with one stone [TS]

  which was it was giving you this visual [TS]

  clue of telling you what was happening [TS]

  like oh this folder is opened into a [TS]

  window now and when i closed the window [TS]

  it closes into the icon from which it [TS]

  opened i see the folder is a window in [TS]

  the window is a folder and the folder if [TS]

  i go back to that window as a different [TS]

  visual state when the window it rep its [TS]

  corresponding window is open run but the [TS]

  animations never felt like they were [TS]

  slowing you down because you were [TS]

  waiting for the computer anyway and as a [TS]

  computer's got faster I feel like those [TS]

  visual clues like I still like in some [TS]

  ways like on the ipad or iphone when you [TS]

  tap an icon and the app animates as it [TS]

  opens up i still feel like it's amit i [TS]

  don't feel like it should I don't feel [TS]

  like the screen should flash instantly [TS]

  but I feel like that animation should be [TS]

  very fast right um and just playing [TS]

  around with it now like so I think a [TS]

  political job sort of if you use command [TS]

  tab which you can use if you have the [TS]

  keyboard you know hooked up to the to [TS]

  the iPad it's it's actually very fast [TS]

  it's pretty good um but if you just do [TS]

  the double click of the home button it's [TS]

  still sort of [TS]

  a slowish zoom out and then you click on [TS]

  the one you want and then it's a slowish [TS]

  zoom in and then the worst of all maybe [TS]

  and I don't know I assume very few [TS]

  people actually use this but you know [TS]

  you can do the forefinger sort of swype [TS]

  thing and go from sort of app to app [TS]

  that way and it's just like [TS]

  unnecessarily slow so yeah I almost [TS]

  never used that as a result of that but [TS]

  that's currently I guess the state of [TS]

  the art the only other thing I was going [TS]

  to head to the ipad discussion since we [TS]

  were talking about sort of newer ones so [TS]

  the pro that i'm using now still feels [TS]

  superfast the newer 9.7 pro super fast [TS]

  but i will say the iPad Mini is a little [TS]

  slow these days I still use it for you [TS]

  know for certain times reading take it [TS]

  out with me since it's nice and small [TS]

  but that's pretty slow and I know that [TS]

  there was some debate back and forth [TS]

  whether or not they would actually just [TS]

  sort of get rid of that product and I [TS]

  hope they don't but anyway I wonder [TS]

  because it does stick out now because [TS]

  it's actually at an entry level it's [TS]

  more expensive than the 930 937 the new [TS]

  or level yeah it does have more storage [TS]

  so it's not completely inexplicable why [TS]

  it's more expensive but it does seem [TS]

  weird because up until this most recent [TS]

  introduction of the quote new 9.7 inch [TS]

  iPad there was a correlation and cost [TS]

  between okay the small one is the [TS]

  cheapest the mid-sized one is mid priced [TS]

  and the new big one right the most [TS]

  expensive and now of a sudden there's a [TS]

  weird situation where if your budget [TS]

  conscious you're going to get the 9.7 [TS]

  inch not that the you know your [TS]

  seemingly getting more more of a device [TS]

  than you are you know for 329 than you [TS]

  would at 399 for the mini and it's also [TS]

  it's been over two years right since [TS]

  it's been updated at this point oh yeah [TS]

  I don't know it's done though I don't [TS]

  know i mean it's it's hard to say i [TS]

  don't know i guess it really it comes [TS]

  down to how many people are buying it I [TS]

  mean it an Apple Apple knows that and [TS]

  isn't going to tell us but I wouldn't be [TS]

  surprised either way I wouldn't be [TS]

  surprised if it gets a very quiet update [TS]

  more or less like with the specs of the [TS]

  quote new 9.7 inch iPad just in the [TS]

  smaller size and it just right sits [TS]

  there that may know I don't know who [TS]

  knows if they could lower the price but [TS]

  you know [TS]

  um maybe and I would be surprised if it [TS]

  just never gets updated in two years [TS]

  from now it just goes away that the sort [TS]

  of got killed by the plus-size iPhones [TS]

  right and yeah especially if you know [TS]

  when the if and when this new its [TS]

  top-of-the-line iPhone comes out if that [TS]

  even makes it even more of sort of a [TS]

  glaring discrepancy between them yeah [TS]

  and I wonder I can't help but think that [TS]

  the the pro uses like I don't think [TS]

  there's ever going to be an iPad Mini [TS]

  Pro I just don't but I don't they they [TS]

  gonna make keyboard that small I think [TS]

  it would be would really take child I [TS]

  did get one of those keyboards that was [TS]

  like the logitech one that you could use [TS]

  with it they was so ridiculously small [TS]

  not very useful uh it is good though as [TS]

  a like a reader you know like it because [TS]

  it is wrong emphasized and so if you [TS]

  really do just read but maybe they're [TS]

  thinking is that for the people who do [TS]

  use it they mostly just reading it [TS]

  doesn't matter if it's long in the tooth [TS]

  and a little slow at this point I don't [TS]

  know yeah but I can't see I'm adding a [TS]

  smart connector and having a keyboard [TS]

  for it yeah did just it it's too small [TS]

  the screen size to actually make an [TS]

  ergonomic keyboard and you all you have [TS]

  to do is play with logic 1 45 seconds to [TS]

  know that I am I talked about this [TS]

  before I still think it's interesting [TS]

  that the Apple 18 when they had me they [TS]

  had a briefing for the new iPad and [TS]

  clips app and stuff and I went up to New [TS]

  York and and saw it they they don't have [TS]

  a special keyboard for the new 9.7 inch [TS]

  iPad but in collaboration with logitech [TS]

  they're supporting this logitech case / [TS]

  keyword which is sort of it's very thick [TS]

  it's like rugged but it's you know you [TS]

  can totally see if you think about it in [TS]

  the context of like a k-12 school you [TS]

  think oh yeah I can see why they would [TS]

  love that because it looks like [TS]

  something that would easily survive like [TS]

  a drop but one of the reasons it's [TS]

  important is that you put it into this [TS]

  case you put the ipad in this case [TS]

  that's totally surrounded and it has a [TS]

  lightning port inside and i don't know [TS]

  if it has a battery or not but that [TS]

  means that it's not a bluetooth [TS]

  connection to the keyboard it's a [TS]

  hardware connection to the keyboard [TS]

  through lightning [TS]

  and that's essential for k-12 because [TS]

  all of the standardized tests that take [TS]

  place on a computer it's mandated that [TS]

  there's no wireless connectivity yes and [TS]

  you can understand you know it's I see [TS]

  it I get it no wireless whatsoever it's [TS]

  like complete airplane mode otherwise [TS]

  the software decks that you're not [TS]

  airplane mode and and won't run and I [TS]

  could totally see I've got my app I feel [TS]

  like if it if a kid can cheat via [TS]

  bluetooth that would be pretty [TS]

  impressive um but yeah I understand [TS]

  fraud I mentioned is the other week on [TS]

  the show with dan frommer he said that [TS]

  he and his friends used to I forget if [TS]

  he said Palm Pilots I forget what they [TS]

  had but when he was in high school I had [TS]

  something and they were I ahran their [TS]

  cheats to each other if they're just all [TS]

  I wonder if they I remember like you [TS]

  know that remember like the ti heels in [TS]

  Texas Instrument sort of scientific [TS]

  calculators we used to have all sorts of [TS]

  fun things on that I think you could run [TS]

  doom like it an emulator to run doom on [TS]

  it and some other fun stuff yeah you're [TS]

  too young you're you're you're too young [TS]

  for me I didn't have anything of that [TS]

  capability but we had calculators that [TS]

  had they just had the the numeric [TS]

  display but you could type letters in [TS]

  them too but it was only on one row and [TS]

  it had like memory functions and so our [TS]

  cheat our way of cheating was to put the [TS]

  brief as possible cheap notes in those [TS]

  memories auctions and they don't bring [TS]

  them up and instead of just being [TS]

  numbers it would you know be some sort [TS]

  of like 32 character oh yeah that's how [TS]

  you know that's how you yep yeah [TS]

  children find a way yeah no matter the [TS]

  technology anything else that you want [TS]

  to talk about um the only other thing [TS]

  and we can sort of briefly talk about it [TS]

  just because I did think it was [TS]

  interesting you you had sort of a [TS]

  shortest rant and linking to something [TS]

  and it does relate directly maybe to [TS]

  some of the ipad stuff we were just [TS]

  talking about is the app bundle size [TS]

  thing ah because there was also like you [TS]

  and I had a not really back and forth I [TS]

  responded to you and they both got a ton [TS]

  of yours and mine both got a ton of [TS]

  likes because i think this resonates [TS]

  with people you were talking about in [TS]

  that tweet the dropbox app like why is [TS]

  it 260 megabytes or whatever and then in [TS]

  your linked post you were talking about [TS]

  the [TS]

  someone wrote a breakdown of why the [TS]

  facebook app is so big now right I so I [TS]

  noticed this because I was without Wi-Fi [TS]

  service for a week or so and so I was [TS]

  living entirely off LTE and I have i [TS]

  upgraded our verizon plan to quote [TS]

  unquote unlimited but i've read the fine [TS]

  print when we did it like our family [TS]

  plan and unlimited is not really [TS]

  unlimited there's i forget what point [TS]

  but there's a point where they reserve [TS]

  the right we're in your month if you go [TS]

  over like 20 gigabytes or something they [TS]

  reserve the right to throttle you [TS]

  something like that it's not really [TS]

  unlimited and so one of the things I did [TS]

  in the week or so I was without Wi-Fi is [TS]

  I didn't update any of my apps with the [TS]

  update all I would just go through and [TS]

  look for ones that I either thought were [TS]

  essential or like small and it's amazing [TS]

  how many apps so more or less I didn't [TS]

  update any app over a hundred megabytes [TS]

  and by the end of the week I had like [TS]

  twenty six app updates it's amazing it's [TS]

  amazing how many of them are over 200 [TS]

  megabytes I know and I mean that's [TS]

  without question that's creeping up [TS]

  across all apps over time is it was sort [TS]

  of one at maybe it was the clips app or [TS]

  something like that it was one of [TS]

  apple's apps i noticed the other day you [TS]

  know i think it was clips maybe and it [TS]

  was like 6 megabytes and i was like oh [TS]

  my god I don't even remember the last [TS]

  time I saw an app update that was that [TS]

  tiny because they're all now at least 50 [TS]

  and then many are over 100 some over 200 [TS]

  low you were talking about and it's [TS]

  insane and so I like that the thing you [TS]

  linked to like sort of breaking down [TS]

  looking unpacking the the you know [TS]

  Facebook's bundle for that and they just [TS]

  have so much cruft in there that's [TS]

  that's obviously duplicate duplicate [TS]

  let's get you happy to the same [TS]

  framework to put get copies of the same [TS]

  image assets and and even that even if [TS]

  you got rid of all the duplicates it [TS]

  that still seems like it would be big [TS]

  but it's crazy I know I know from [TS]

  somewhat and I know one of the things is [TS]

  that it's these analytics packages that [TS]

  the apps are all using and that they [TS]

  come as binary blobs where you just they [TS]

  give you this framework to toss into [TS]

  your Xcode project and the whole thing [TS]

  is in there and it's you know and then [TS]

  somebody else is from the SEO team on [TS]

  your company is like what we want this [TS]

  analytics product to and then all of a [TS]

  sudden you got two of them and they add [TS]

  up to 100 megabytes and it's not it not [TS]

  even your app uh right about the example [TS]

  is an innocent either because the iworks [TS]

  apps are humongous Oh huge and Microsoft [TS]

  those are some of the worst that I works [TS]

  all the the productivity stuff whenever [TS]

  I have Microsoft Word one of them and it [TS]

  was like it was like six hundred [TS]

  megabytes like what in an app update [TS]

  what are they doing it's all templates [TS]

  and and the image assets to go with the [TS]

  template I can't imagine what else it [TS]

  would if you languages and I I don't [TS]

  even know um one of the things I know [TS]

  obviously Facebook does one of the [TS]

  reasons for the bloat is there always [TS]

  including various a be tests in their [TS]

  app and so they will trigger things [TS]

  based on country I think based on other [TS]

  things as well to try to you know a be [TS]

  test various functionality back in the [TS]

  TechCrunch days you know I used to to [TS]

  sort of know where to look and who to [TS]

  ask about sort of unpacking some of that [TS]

  because you could always find stuff I [TS]

  think I found the ipad version of the [TS]

  facebook app when it was still bundled [TS]

  in before there was an official ipad [TS]

  version because it was baked into the [TS]

  you know the standard iOS version and so [TS]

  is right there and i'm sure they're [TS]

  they're always doing stuff like that I [TS]

  it I feel like it's getting out of [TS]

  control though and part of it I noticed [TS]

  it with this I've noticed it before that [TS]

  but I noticed it with this week where I [TS]

  didn't have Wi-Fi but I've noticed it [TS]

  before and it just seems preposterous to [TS]

  me I mean like I'm not say I mean we you [TS]

  know we were finicky and fussy but [TS]

  vesper I'd looked it was the the last [TS]

  version of Vesper which is still in the [TS]

  app store is 5.5 megabytes wow yeah [TS]

  that's impressive huge chunk of that is [TS]

  that we embedded a custom font it's if [TS]

  we use the system font it would have [TS]

  been even significantly smaller uh [TS]

  there's no reason for it and I and its [TS]

  really wasteful and facebook after i [TS]

  mentioned that somebody wrote to me and [TS]

  i forgot to even mention this but it's a [TS]

  good point is facebook updates their app [TS]

  all the time so multiply the size of the [TS]

  update versus how frequently they have [TS]

  new versions and it's yeah i mean they [TS]

  famously say in their update notes we [TS]

  update the app every [TS]

  yes that's all they say in the update [TS]

  right so they do it every two weeks and [TS]

  the same with messenger messenger is [TS]

  almost as big I feel like in that you [TS]

  know the facebook Messenger product and [TS]

  then facebook has several other apps [TS]

  that are all sort of roughly in the same [TS]

  situation and then I that an offshoot of [TS]

  all of that reminds me of this was [TS]

  several weeks ago Twitter actually added [TS]

  something in their settings to basically [TS]

  kill clear the cache um and when I did [TS]

  that I had like a gigabyte worth of [TS]

  information in there like what on earth [TS]

  they were cashing I guess images and in [TS]

  gifts or something from like years and [TS]

  years ago it was a gigabyte worth of [TS]

  data what Twitter 140 characters hey so [TS]

  in a world where all but the newest [TS]

  devices were still sold in 16 gigabyte [TS]

  configurations you can have a gigabyte [TS]

  of all tweets stored there I don't know [TS]

  but I feel like it's it's getting out of [TS]

  control and I know that in the early [TS]

  years of the app store it was a pretty [TS]

  big deal i think the limit was a hundred [TS]

  where you could rise like 100 / rights [TS]

  it was the limit where so had to be on [TS]

  Wi-Fi otherwise you could be on cellular [TS]

  and it was a big deal for developers to [TS]

  stay under 100 because i wanted users to [TS]

  be able to update as soon as they could [TS]

  and if they were on cellular for an [TS]

  extended strike stretch they wanted them [TS]

  to get the updates but it seems like [TS]

  they've just blown past that uh but it's [TS]

  a Syria it adds up to serious bandwidth [TS]

  so like I checked like um I think I pay [TS]

  fifty dollars a month for an AT&T [TS]

  cellular service on my iPad and I'm [TS]

  thinking about giving us up when I next [TS]

  get an ipad but my strategy when i [TS]

  bought it's an ipad mini and i got it I [TS]

  don't two or three years ago probably [TS]

  like three years ago but that's my [TS]

  personal iPad and my strategy was I'm [TS]

  gonna have verizon service on our the [TS]

  whole family's iphones and i'm going to [TS]

  get AT&T on my ipad so that if i'm ever [TS]

  similar verizon you know I got a [TS]

  vacation or something and there's no [TS]

  good verizon service i'll have AT&T [TS]

  service and i pay 50 50 bucks for seven [TS]

  gigabytes a month and i think i think [TS]

  amy pays like 30 bucks for four [TS]

  gigabytes or [TS]

  I don't know but it's very single digit [TS]

  gigabytes of bandwidth a month and if [TS]

  you've only got four gigabytes of [TS]

  bandwidth in a month and app updates are [TS]

  200 megabytes each all right five app [TS]

  updates use up what a quarter of your [TS]

  bandwidth you could easily chew through [TS]

  the four gigabytes and I don't feel like [TS]

  people know that I think people realize [TS]

  that hey if I'm going to stream video [TS]

  that's going to chew up my bandwidth [TS]

  like if I'm going to watch YouTube for [TS]

  an hour to I that's obviously i'm using [TS]

  cellular i'm using my bandwidth if i [TS]

  watch a major league baseball game in [TS]

  the MLB app i know that i'm using oh you [TS]

  know significant chunk of my bandwidth [TS]

  like updating my apps doesn't feel like [TS]

  that should be squandering a huge [TS]

  percentage of my monthly bandwidth but [TS]

  it is because people have you know a lot [TS]

  of people have a pretty low single-digit [TS]

  number of gigabytes a month of bandwidth [TS]

  to use yeah I mean I the exact same [TS]

  situation when I was last moving same [TS]

  thing we were using sort of a tethered [TS]

  device I think was a mifi unit that I [TS]

  just gotten and hooked up to our AT&T [TS]

  account and not even explicitly but I [TS]

  just either forgot or I have too many [TS]

  devices to even remember every single [TS]

  one of them but I would just leave it on [TS]

  if I left it on at night we would always [TS]

  have to turn it off because if I left it [TS]

  on they would auto update because you [TS]

  know it considers it to be Wi-Fi because [TS]

  I'm connected to a mifi unit right and [TS]

  so it would auto update and then I'd [TS]

  look at the bill and we would blow past [TS]

  our when I'm like 20 gigs in like four [TS]

  days there's almost all from a pup days [TS]

  we weren't watching video it was like it [TS]

  was crazy mark mark Oh Lauren has a [TS]

  funny story about that from years ago he [TS]

  was at WWDC and he was tethering you [TS]

  know what in the era of relatively low [TS]

  gigabytes per month and he was tethering [TS]

  and he wanted to set up so he could [TS]

  publish a podcast that they recorded any [TS]

  left he left his it went to bed and he [TS]

  left his macbook open and it downloaded [TS]

  and the iTunes downloaded a new episode [TS]

  of mad men in HD it costs him like [TS]

  seventy dollars I got like a single [TS]

  episode of the show you subscribe to it [TS]

  was like a seventy dollar overage fee or [TS]

  something that's because their mac does [TS]

  it anyway uh no that's a good topic I [TS]

  don't know what's going on but I feel [TS]

  like apples got to get on top of this [TS]

  because I don't feel like we're just [TS]

  crazy old men [TS]

  whoo all right there you go get off my [TS]

  lawn with your big ass apps there's no [TS]

  reason for these apps to be so big [TS]

  there's absolutely no reason for it it [TS]

  reminds me well two things Orion's me of [TS]

  coz one it reminds me of back when you [TS]

  know they tried to launch magazines on [TS]

  the iPad right and like they were [TS]

  massive because they were just pictures [TS]

  of of pages all right they would like [TS]

  scan in a picture of a wired magazine [TS]

  and that would be the app and so they [TS]

  were each each individual artists owed [TS]

  each individual issue was like 700 to [TS]

  800 megabytes and it was just so [TS]

  ridiculous and so tedious to download [TS]

  they seem to have streamline that a [TS]

  little bit obviously there's less of an [TS]

  emphasis on it these days but I noticed [TS]

  they just down there downloading faster [TS]

  so i assume that they're smaller the one [TS]

  other thing is this actually came out a [TS]

  couple weeks ago I think so Twitter now [TS]

  Twitter one of the things further [TS]

  launched recently was Twitter light li [TS]

  te it's like the lite version of their [TS]

  service because of this problem right [TS]

  like in in developing countries they [TS]

  can't possibly download you know 250 [TS]

  megabyte apps or have your twitter app [TS]

  store a gigabyte worth of data and so [TS]

  they ended up launching it's just on the [TS]

  web and it's the same thing Facebook did [TS]

  back in the day this was several years [TS]

  ago they launched a Facebook Lite and [TS]

  like when they launched these things [TS]

  like you know everyone seems to praise [TS]

  them for it because it's like wow it's [TS]

  so great it's so fast I remember I [TS]

  wanted I would try to use Facebook Lite [TS]

  as my main thing even though it's meant [TS]

  for sort of third world countries so [TS]

  they're all like they have these funny [TS]

  ways around it because they know that [TS]

  that situation is just completely [TS]

  untenable certainly outside of the [TS]

  United States and so they have like [TS]

  whole teams now devoted to launching [TS]

  lite versions of their product it's I [TS]

  don't know what the solution is but [TS]

  something's got to be done because it's [TS]

  it's getting out of hand and it's only [TS]

  getting worse I just can't help but feel [TS]

  too that when i read that technical [TS]

  analysis of the facebook app bundle and [TS]

  how many duplicate resources and [TS]

  frameworks they have like the the [TS]

  project the xcode project to build it [TS]

  must be like a total like mess of [TS]

  spaghetti logic yeah there's just no way [TS]

  that you get in that situation [TS]

  there's no good there's no good [TS]

  explanation behind that well and the [TS]

  problem also I assume you know unlike [TS]

  sort of like like you with Vesper where [TS]

  you know you have a very small team [TS]

  workout it you know Facebook presumably [TS]

  has hundreds if not more people working [TS]

  on all of these things and so you can [TS]

  say like just you know stream lights of [TS]

  it that's like whose job is that you [TS]

  need like an overseer of the code right [TS]

  I guess I mean I guess I can see how it [TS]

  happened but it's still not a good [TS]

  explanation where if the people who are [TS]

  working on their a snapchat clone [TS]

  working on their a snapchat clone [TS]

  need they need to depend to build it [TS]

  they need a copy of the the facebook you [TS]

  know framework that the the everybody [TS]

  uses this framework with our core share [TS]

  code but the other teams need the same [TS]

  thing but they can't depend on where [TS]

  that is and that's all of a sudden how [TS]

  you have three copies of the same [TS]

  framework because right team a needed it [TS]

  Team B needed it and you know all of a [TS]

  sudden I also really liked his uh his [TS]

  note about like you know finding the [TS]

  strings that were like you will be fired [TS]

  if you include if you turn this on [TS]

  writers API that was about you and what [TS]

  you know my joke back to you about the [TS]

  dropbox one was like well yeah of course [TS]

  because they're including the dropbox [TS]

  stories into it but though i think [TS]

  someone else had even funnier when I [TS]

  thought were just like for the Facebook [TS]

  ones where it's like well yeah of course [TS]

  they're that big I mean they had to [TS]

  shove all of snapchat into the atom so [TS]

  what else you're gonna do uh look in [TS]

  here anything I do want to talk about [TS]

  clips a little bit or yeah we can I [TS]

  don't I don't have to i played with it a [TS]

  little bit I found it confusing when I [TS]

  was first using it but i only have [TS]

  played with it for a few minutes it [TS]

  sounds like you know you you did to sit [TS]

  down sort of a walkthrough with Apple [TS]

  about it what's from me from your view [TS]

  what's there what's their mentality I [TS]

  know you said something like you know [TS]

  obviously they didn't launch a social [TS]

  network there it's just meant for other [TS]

  networks right but um why why do it is [TS]

  it a reason to buy the iphone like [TS]

  what's what's the rationale I think the [TS]

  rationale is that they see these things [TS]

  as and I don't think we collectively [TS]

  have a name for it yet but that it's a [TS]

  new medium it's not quite a video it's [TS]

  not quite an animated gift it's sort of [TS]

  but it's it's got all these ideas where [TS]

  you can use text to annotate you can [TS]

  include multiple clips so it's not just [TS]

  one shot of video you can include stills [TS]

  it's meant to be viewed on a phone and [TS]

  you can do it with minimal fuss and that [TS]

  it's right up their alley to make its [TS]

  like the social networks are how they [TS]

  get distributed right instagram and [TS]

  snapchat and Facebook of course but that [TS]

  the tools to actually make [TS]

  the best possible version of this is [TS]

  exactly in Apple's wheelhouse of the [TS]

  sort of things that they do well and I [TS]

  still stand by I'm very proud of it as a [TS]

  tweet length review that it's like [TS]

  iMovie and keynote had a baby in a the [TS]

  baby got the best genes from both [TS]

  parents like I really do believe that I [TS]

  have a couple of small complaints about [TS]

  but one thing that they do that's very [TS]

  smart and I think it's why the the [TS]

  bundle size is so small is that all the [TS]

  they have all these like titles and [TS]

  certainly the music soundtracks they're [TS]

  not included in the download and so when [TS]

  you start using the app fresh if you [TS]

  want to get the soundtracks you have to [TS]

  download them okay that's good maybe [TS]

  that's what like Facebook and other [TS]

  should learn I think it's a great idea i [TS]

  think it's it's so you can start using [TS]

  the app with a minimal download and just [TS]

  downright and so if you are on cellular [TS]

  or slow network you can just download [TS]

  the ones you really want my only beef [TS]

  about it is i do wish there was a [TS]

  download all button like in itunes you [TS]

  can do that so like if you're using the [TS]

  iTunes music library you can have a [TS]

  music album that's in the cloud and if [TS]

  you just want one song you can download [TS]

  it but if you want to download the whole [TS]

  album you can download the whole album [TS]

  without clicking 11 times to download I [TS]

  feel like clips should have that for the [TS]

  title styles and for the music [TS]

  soundtrack why do you think though that [TS]

  they launched it when they did why not [TS]

  you know make it a feature of iOS 11 why [TS]

  do it as a fully standalone thing ah [TS]

  that's a good question i guess because [TS]

  it's ready and they feel like why not I [TS]

  add my guess and that you know maybe [TS]

  that they you know they see this as an [TS]

  exploding form you know these sort of [TS]

  stories based meme style many videos um [TS]

  you know one of the other things too [TS]

  that I think is central to it is that [TS]

  being silent is part of you know you can [TS]

  include sound you can include including [TS]

  those music soundtracks but the fact [TS]

  that a lot of people are going to listen [TS]

  to them in silence right is part of the [TS]

  idea and it's part of why they spent so [TS]

  much effort on this annotated text that [TS]

  gets the text as you as you you know [TS]

  where as you dictate it [TS]

  I feel like that they see this as it is [TS]

  my guess is that they see this our art [TS]

  form as exploding and that it makes [TS]

  sense to get it out sooner rather than [TS]

  later because iOS 11 isn't going to ship [TS]

  until September yeah they're on schedule [TS]

  so it's right so if they're wrong go now [TS]

  in early April and I think it is I think [TS]

  the app is certainly certainly in one [TS]

  point o shape it's very good one point [TS]

  of shape I feel like they don't want to [TS]

  wait you know maybe maybe do less as big [TS]

  monolithic OS updates and keep doing [TS]

  more as individual app update do you buy [TS]

  anything into the notion of this being [TS]

  sort of a toe dip into augmented reality [TS]

  because obviously we see that we see [TS]

  both Microsoft Google and a handful of [TS]

  others sort of launched on these things [TS]

  Microsoft just launched one thing called [TS]

  like sprinkles the other day which is [TS]

  you know effectively using some of their [TS]

  machine learning technology to sort of [TS]

  ultra images google just launched that [TS]

  thing where you can doodle and it will [TS]

  look up it you know try to match it to a [TS]

  picture so all of these guys are clearly [TS]

  doing that as both experimentation but [TS]

  also to sort of train data right to be [TS]

  better at that Dubai Apple trying to do [TS]

  that a little anything with a little for [TS]

  augmented reality have to call the face [TS]

  recognition as augmented reality right i [TS]

  mean it maybe it's not augmenting it but [TS]

  it certainly is it's it's it's reality [TS]

  aware is that a better way to say it you [TS]

  know where it shouldn't clip and it has [TS]

  three of your friends in it and the [TS]

  facial recognition is able to identify [TS]

  them and the fact that when you go to [TS]

  share it there the first three people [TS]

  that suggests sharing it too it's not [TS]

  quite augmented reality in the sense of [TS]

  okay here's goggles that show you the [TS]

  real world and overlay write-ins but it [TS]

  is machine learning for sure is and it [TS]

  is the device in your hand is making is [TS]

  aware of the real world it is saying i [TS]

  know right i'm shooting that's a picture [TS]

  of your son you know i know that you [TS]

  know it I almost feel like augmented [TS]

  reality is is a term that's not going to [TS]

  pan out I feel like it's more just [TS]

  devices being reality aware [TS]

  yeah and I think like I I don't disagree [TS]

  with that because I do think you know [TS]

  sort of everyone assumed augmented [TS]

  reality would be sort of like what the [TS]

  magic leap videos are right where it's [TS]

  like you're looking out and you have [TS]

  glasses on or something and then a whale [TS]

  jumps out of the rent of street but what [TS]

  we're seeing is like the mainstream [TS]

  usage at least right now of course of [TS]

  what you would call quote-unquote [TS]

  augmented reality is more long lines of [TS]

  snapchat filters and Pokemon go right [TS]

  where they're just different there's [TS]

  there's nuance to how they're they're [TS]

  not quite not quite like that Pokemon [TS]

  goes a little bit more like that but [TS]

  snapchats more just what you were [TS]

  talking about sort of you know being [TS]

  able to to recognize a face and do [TS]

  manipulation of that and if you think [TS]

  about it with a little bit of battery [TS]

  you could like why can't your iPhone be [TS]

  as aware of where it is as as you are it [TS]

  there's I think it's I don't think we're [TS]

  very far from this at all and I mean [TS]

  this in the sense of beyond GPS like GPS [TS]

  is certainly one aspect of knowing where [TS]

  it is but like when I'm walking down [TS]

  Broad Street in Philadelphia like if you [TS]

  had me blindfolded until the moment and [TS]

  then you open my eyes it's only going to [TS]

  take me an instant or two to realize you [TS]

  know where I am on Broad Street and [TS]

  Philadelphia because I'm very familiar [TS]

  with it well if I have my phone in my [TS]

  hand why can't the phone use the camera [TS]

  very briefly and just take a quick look [TS]

  a qui quick peek and instantly realize [TS]

  oh I know exactly where i am amit i'm at [TS]

  broad and spruce and Philadelphia [TS]

  because I recognize this instantly a way [TS]

  that a human can and in Maryland man and [TS]

  I talked about this recently on the show [TS]

  but and we can't go in-depth on these [TS]

  voice assistance but like things like [TS]

  the I mean it's very good in a lot of [TS]

  ways but why can't devices like said [TS]

  recognize every voice in the family it [TS]

  seems to me like we're very going to be [TS]

  very close to that because a human being [TS]

  certainly could if we had a human being [TS]

  in our kitchen the human being would [TS]

  know instantly [TS]

  whether it was me or my wife or my son [TS]

  who is asking for the weather and now it [TS]

  doesn't matter if the question is what's [TS]

  the weather like it doesn't matter who [TS]

  it is but if it's what's on my agenda [TS]

  they should certainly not oh yeah we [TS]

  will that will absolutely i would say [TS]

  that happens in short all right and you [TS]

  start thinking about these things and i [TS]

  think about like oh how would you [TS]

  program something how would you think [TS]

  about making a computer that does this [TS]

  and you think about what our ears can do [TS]

  and it's like when you're familiar with [TS]

  your without your house or whatever it's [TS]

  not just that you know who's talking to [TS]

  you but you can basically tell where [TS]

  they're talking to you from like if [TS]

  you're yeah all these upstairs from you [TS]

  and they're yelling mg you know can you [TS]

  blah blah blah you know that that [TS]

  they're upstairs you can hear it your [TS]

  ears pick up that location and like why [TS]

  can't these devices know that like right [TS]

  context-aware and rice and yeah i mean [TS]

  but look at like Apple still does the [TS]

  thing right where you have to sort of [TS]

  train quote-unquote Siri when you start [TS]

  right you have to say like hasty and so [TS]

  it'll only illuminate with your voice [TS]

  that's still right right yeah well it's [TS]

  supposedly but it's it's not it's not [TS]

  very accurate in my opinion in terms of [TS]

  locking people out like in fact I think [TS]

  my wife just used ready on my phone I [TS]

  I'm not sure if she pressed the button [TS]

  or not though and if that's the case [TS]

  that's sort of weird that they even make [TS]

  you do that if it's just not you know [TS]

  cuz obviously like um you don't sort of [TS]

  voice train um and it and i don't think [TS]

  the google one either right now um I [TS]

  just triggered love to beep it uh yeah [TS]

  it's so hard to talk about these things [TS]

  on a podcast you saw that thing that [TS]

  just like that news broke I didn't read [TS]

  the full story about it but I saw that [TS]

  somewhat Burger King's trying to do a [TS]

  commercial that triggers the Google home [TS]

  oh really I did not see that and i think [TS]

  i saw that google is already going to [TS]

  block that because that's a whole can of [TS]

  worms obviously that's a bad idea yeah [TS]

  but anyway I feel like there's a lot to [TS]

  go in that direction I'd still feel like [TS]

  one of the main areas where Apple's it I [TS]

  think it's just that they just didn't [TS]

  have it ready but the way that they [TS]

  don't [TS]

  share the facial recognition data [TS]

  between your different devices is a huge [TS]

  hole and I think that they will and I [TS]

  think that their whole explanation last [TS]

  year that it was about privacy was just [TS]

  right it wasn't that it wasn't like we [TS]

  believe so much in privacy that we're [TS]

  not going to share this between your [TS]

  devices I think that the reading between [TS]

  the lines the answer is we believe in [TS]

  privacy and we don't have a private way [TS]

  to share it between our devices yet and [TS]

  so we're not going to do it we're not [TS]

  going to do it in a way that we're not [TS]

  satisfied with the privacy until we have [TS]

  it ready but I think it's inevitable [TS]

  that they will write and they made a [TS]

  bunch I can't remember the exact name or [TS]

  were different I the technology [TS]

  differential that's a ver i'm sharing [TS]

  personal information differential [TS]

  privacy is is about it's fully [TS]

  anonymized but like a real pro I private [TS]

  you know like they're they do share [TS]

  stuff between our devices like in the [TS]

  same way that you can get end-to-end [TS]

  encrypted I messages on multiple devices [TS]

  it's not like they don't believe in in [TS]

  non duplicating private information [TS]

  between your devices it's just the third [TS]

  for whatever reason the photo face ID [TS]

  stuff wasn't it wasn't technically ready [TS]

  that's my belief it's not that they're [TS]

  never not going to do it but for [TS]

  something like cliff delivery yeah and [TS]

  we'll see I mean my guess is that their [TS]

  stance you know just maybe doesn't fully [TS]

  change over time because you know [TS]

  they've obviously they've taken the [TS]

  privacy stance like you mentioned but [TS]

  like the implications of that were that [TS]

  they were going to try to do as much on [TS]

  the device as possible and i think you [TS]

  know that's fine and in good and we'll [TS]

  see what they could do with that but i [TS]

  would imagine that if they really need [TS]