The Accidental Tech Podcast

215: Pots Are Made to Be Broken


  some point in the semi near future we [TS]

  should do our I guess biannual which can [TS]

  either mean twice a year or every two [TS]

  years announcement on the show that [TS]

  there is more of the podcast that for [TS]

  the song because I still okay yeah I [TS]

  still occasionally you know wake up in [TS]

  the mill that I and think I wonder how [TS]

  many people stopped listening when the [TS]

  song plays it haunts me a little bit [TS]

  done that's our pre-show that doesn't [TS]

  count as the announcement I need to like [TS]

  explain that link as it does no I bought [TS]

  it I mean fine you can put that in [TS]

  that's fine but I'm like I want to [TS]

  explain it link like the song plays and [TS]

  then the show continues and I know it's [TS]

  confusing but that's just what we do yes [TS]

  we have an after show it's after the [TS]

  theme song listen to it the end but [TS]

  minute it needs to be explained how much [TS]

  more does it need this does not need to [TS]

  be it does not need to be belabor do you [TS]

  think it doesn't need to be booked trust [TS]

  me like it here yes yes you if you were [TS]

  more of you know invasive instead of [TS]

  respecting people's privacy we could [TS]

  know exactly when they stopped listening [TS]

  on overcast anyway but no you don't [TS]

  wanna collect any data about anybody [TS]

  just ask the mid role they probably know [TS]

  Oh sick burn sick burn so it's been a [TS]

  big week huge week you could say because [TS]

  John siracusa you have your new file [TS]

  system on your phone assuming you've [TS]

  upgraded so how about them apples I did [TS]

  upgrade i upgraded my device and [TS]

  everybody's device I was very excited to [TS]

  do it it's a little less bit less [TS]

  exciting than having on your Mac because [TS]

  there's really no way as far as I've [TS]

  been able to determine to tell that you [TS]

  have a PFS on your iOS device short of [TS]

  you know digging around with some dev [TS]

  tool or whatever one of the things that [TS]

  I heard people mentioning to try which [TS]

  makes sense to me is you know in [TS]

  settings general like storage usage or [TS]

  manage storage like somewhere you keep [TS]

  going down to the thing that tells you [TS]

  how much room is being taken up on your [TS]

  iOS device by various applications their [TS]

  files you know that screen well that [TS]

  screen in the old world had to crawl [TS]

  through each applications you know [TS]

  little directory of stuff and add up the [TS]

  size of everything and it would take a [TS]

  lot of load you'd see it like load some [TS]

  of the things then you'd wait and [TS]

  there'd be a little [TS]

  benner and some more applications would [TS]

  appear and if you you know if you looked [TS]

  at it quickly you think oh the thing [TS]

  that's most using the most storage is [TS]

  whatever is on the top but is wait two [TS]

  seconds another Apple come in another [TS]

  app and I timed it on my old iphone 6 [TS]

  and it was like 20-something seconds now [TS]

  I haven't upgraded that old iphone 6 to [TS]

  a PFS yet but in theory because one of [TS]

  the features that a PFS has is what they [TS]

  call fast directory sizing where the [TS]

  file system keeps track of the size of [TS]

  the stuff that's under a directory in [TS]

  real time all the time rather than [TS]

  having to crawl over it and calculate it [TS]

  when you asked for it in theory that [TS]

  screen well it's just not how how big [TS]

  everything is should be a lot faster [TS]

  because I didn't think to do this until [TS]

  I had upgraded almost every device in [TS]

  the house I don't actually have numbers [TS]

  on it but I can tell you that on my [TS]

  iphone 7 that I did upgrade it is two to [TS]

  three times as fast as it is on the [TS]

  iphone 6 that I didn't upgrade but [TS]

  anyway when I'm actually might upgrade [TS]

  the iphone 6 i'll get timings um but [TS]

  that's the first thing i can think of to [TS]

  like how how will this manifest in a way [TS]

  that you can notice the other way all [TS]

  right a hold on it so just to be clear [TS]

  that's settings general this is in 10.3 [TS]

  storage and I Cloud usage and then [TS]

  manage storage and you'll see used and [TS]

  available and then you'll see all the [TS]

  stuff kind of populate all in one shot [TS]

  ya know it's actually more than one shot [TS]

  but it's pretty doing it it does it it's [TS]

  not instant which is what you would [TS]

  think good be which makes you think [TS]

  maybe it's not actually faster because [TS]

  like so many things after OS upgrades [TS]

  there are a lot of sort of false [TS]

  indicators if you you know any any OS [TS]

  upgrade mac upgrade a phone upgrade even [TS]

  just rebooting makes many things faster [TS]

  subjectively and objectively so it's [TS]

  very difficult to tell the other item [TS]

  it's not in the and the notes here but [TS]

  that has come up a lot is like wow i [TS]

  upgraded 10.3 and suddenly i have more [TS]

  free space on my phone is that a tribute [TS]

  to a PFS maybe because of maybe like [TS]

  volume bitmap sizes and file system [TS]

  metadata but that's a stretch most [TS]

  likely my theory is that it cleans out [TS]

  you know just rebooting and cleaning out [TS]

  cache files as part of the upgrade [TS]

  process frees up a free space because [TS]

  you know how iOS caches a bunch of crap [TS]

  in places that aren't really attributed [TS]

  to any particular application [TS]

  like I don't know I would there's [TS]

  nothing specific in a PFS unless they're [TS]

  doing a lot of copy-on-write cloning of [TS]

  duplicate files which I don't think they [TS]

  are as part of the upgrade process I [TS]

  can't imagine getting back some huge [TS]

  percentage of disk space but I don't [TS]

  know I haven't heard a convincing [TS]

  explanation that but certainly it's [TS]

  possible that merely by rebooting or [TS]

  doing the OS upgrading cleaning out [TS]

  temporary directories you could free up [TS]

  a lot of extra space some people have [TS]

  reported that the total capacity is [TS]

  reported differently and that could be [TS]

  the case as well but there's million [TS]

  things that can cause that but anyway I [TS]

  would say fast directory sizing assuming [TS]

  it's even being used by that storage [TS]

  management screen could be way a way [TS]

  that you can tell this is happening but [TS]

  even if there is actually no way for you [TS]

  to tell that you've upgraded the file [TS]

  system you can get warm fuzzies inside [TS]

  and knowing that a better file system is [TS]

  there under the covers and then erase [TS]

  those warm fuzzies with a giant eraser [TS]

  that says that integrity is still not [TS]

  being checked so good luck I mean for [TS]

  what it's worth a TP tipster in the chat [TS]

  has said that if you have a 64-bit [TS]

  device and you're running iOS 10 3 you [TS]

  were running a PFS yeah that's the story [TS]

  is you don't have a choice you get it [TS]

  whether you want it or not oh and one [TS]

  more item on AV if that's the thing [TS]

  that's actually in here David Reed [TS]

  written to say that someone in Arabic [TS]

  speaking country was using his [TS]

  application on iOS 10.3 public beta and [TS]

  they couldn't open their files until [TS]

  renaming them to English after upgrading [TS]

  from Iowa standpoint to toot my 3 this [TS]

  gets back to what we talked about at the [TS]

  end of the last show that a PFS does not [TS]

  normalize the character encoding of file [TS]

  names and I thought as I said the last [TS]

  show well that's a bummer if you're [TS]

  using raw access to the file systems [TS]

  through the bsd layer but surely if [TS]

  you're using cocoa or UI kit or whatever [TS]

  you know some high-level framework that [TS]

  you don't have to worry about this [TS]

  because it will do all that for you on [TS]

  the way down to the file system on the [TS]

  way back up but apparently that's not [TS]

  the case because i'm assuming david reid [TS]

  is not using direct bsd api's to do file [TS]

  i/o if you have an application that is [TS]

  not careful with character encoding when [TS]

  running out file names it could be that [TS]

  previously worked fine because you would [TS]

  say give me the file called cafe with [TS]

  the knee with an accent over it and [TS]

  doesn't really matter how you encoded [TS]

  that in Unicode because the file system [TS]

  when searching for the file with that [TS]

  file name would take what you entered no [TS]

  matter how you did it normal [TS]

  that's what Unicode normalization is is [TS]

  take a representation and encoded in [TS]

  just one way even though you can write [TS]

  that same word seven different ways pick [TS]

  one way to do it there's a whole bunch [TS]

  of different normalizations defined by [TS]

  Unicode but apples hfs+ uses a weird [TS]

  variant of one of them and then when you [TS]

  compare to the list of files in the [TS]

  directory in the file system just say [TS]

  well everything in the directory on the [TS]

  file system is normalized and the string [TS]

  that I'm comparing with I just [TS]

  normalized and so I'll compare them to [TS]

  each other when they get a match I find [TS]

  your file if on the other hand the file [TS]

  system like a PFS doesn't do any [TS]

  normalization I would assume that the [TS]

  file names in the file system are that [TS]

  are pre-existing from like you converted [TS]

  to 10.2 to 10 13 those are normalized [TS]

  according to the HFS normalization but [TS]

  maybe when you look for that file name [TS]

  and you send in your file it is not [TS]

  normalized in the same way and it will [TS]

  search the directory for a file with [TS]

  that name and never find an exact match [TS]

  and safe there's no file by that name [TS]

  file not found and so that's why [TS]

  renaming the file to English would you [TS]

  know get it into you know a ski or [TS]

  something that isn't in Kota belen [TS]

  multiple different ways in the normal [TS]

  case would let you find the file so I [TS]

  don't know if this is an isolated case [TS]

  or we're going to see more of this but [TS]

  you know this this apparently is the [TS]

  conscious choice that Apple is made out [TS]

  of inspire a dar that they closed the [TS]

  saying yep this is the way a PFS works [TS]

  that's not the way HFS works this is the [TS]

  future everyone get used to it so one [TS]

  other thing to add and I think Gruber [TS]

  had made mention of this on daring [TS]

  fireball but I think it's worth noting [TS]

  that it is absolutely bananas to me that [TS]

  millions upon millions upon millions of [TS]

  iOS devices have been upgraded and I [TS]

  have not heard a single horror story of [TS]

  somebody's data getting lost of some [TS]

  catastrophic thing happening I'm sure it [TS]

  did happen I'm sure there's someone [TS]

  listening to this show that might have [TS]

  had it happen to them but in terms of [TS]

  the circles I typically travel in I have [TS]

  yet to hear anyone's horror stories and [TS]

  that is unbelievably impressive and even [TS]

  if there are a handful of horror stories [TS]

  there's been so few that given the [TS]

  magnitude of the change that was made it [TS]

  is preposterous to me that it has gone [TS]

  as well as and you shouldn't be [TS]

  preposterous though because on a past [TS]

  episode like this is not to denigrate [TS]

  the the work the files [TS]

  the up and I would say also like the [TS]

  upgrade team whoever does the upgrade [TS]

  her like did they did good work but this [TS]

  is how there's nothing's working in [TS]

  technical circles and in programming [TS]

  much much like Marcos favorite hobby [TS]

  horse it doesn't really matter how hard [TS]

  you try on something that you don't get [TS]

  there's no points for effort staying [TS]

  really late and trying really hard and [TS]

  being a good person and all those things [TS]

  don't help what makes you avoid or makes [TS]

  you have a program that is successful [TS]

  and that works correctly is as design is [TS]

  like you know what what is the structure [TS]

  of this thing so as we discuss some [TS]

  petty shows the way this file system in [TS]

  many modern file system works for that [TS]

  allows you to do this conversion is that [TS]

  it doesn't move any of the data it [TS]

  leaves everything exactly where it is it [TS]

  doesn't modify the file system at all it [TS]

  just rides a new set of metadata [TS]

  pointing to all the existing data and it [TS]

  can do that at its leisure at any point [TS]

  of that process fails or you know [TS]

  something it doesn't matter it has not [TS]

  done anything destructive to the file [TS]

  system only after it is done a complete [TS]

  accounting with complete new metadata [TS]

  pointing to the other data that's [TS]

  sitting there at rest not being moved [TS]

  not being modified in any way does it do [TS]

  one quick small critical section it says [TS]

  and switcheroo use this instead of that [TS]

  and that tiny crypt like that's design [TS]

  as opposed to saying I'm going to [TS]

  convert this by you know doing like a [TS]

  you know slide puzzles with us like a [TS]

  little open space and usually 11 little [TS]

  tile is not there so you have to slide [TS]

  the towels around to the constantly in [TS]

  the open space it could convert your [TS]

  file system piecemeal like that saying [TS]

  I'm going to use this free space to [TS]

  start writing a new file system i'm [TS]

  going to copy all the data piece at a [TS]

  time to a new thing for pretty much that [TS]

  entire process your file system is hosed [TS]

  if anything fails at any point you have [TS]

  like a new pleat unbootable garbage [TS]

  system and no matter how hard you try [TS]

  like oh I'm a really good program i'm [TS]

  going to make that process really [TS]

  foolproof you can't because the design [TS]

  is bad the reason this works flawlessly [TS]

  the only way you could ever get [TS]

  something like this to work as as you [TS]

  know as successfully as it has is with a [TS]

  design that allows you to do that so [TS]

  this is another one advantage of modern [TS]

  file systems that you couldn't do this [TS]

  with the conversion from HFS to hfs+ [TS]

  means there were utilities to do it and [TS]

  they were terrifying right it's good [TS]

  design up front and also on top of that [TS]

  also a good execution of that design [TS]

  obviously so there's no all credit where [TS]

  credit is due but I found that in my [TS]

  experience as a programmer for lo these [TS]

  many years no matter how no matter how [TS]

  much effort and what a good job you do [TS]

  an execution if your initial design has [TS]

  doesn't have certain properties that you [TS]

  need there's really not much you can do [TS]

  whereas if you have a good design and [TS]

  you have one or two bugs it's easy to [TS]

  shake them out and to be you know like [TS]

  it's like when you when you design [TS]

  something that comes out better than you [TS]

  thought it did and it solves even more [TS]

  problems than you thought it would and [TS]

  has fewer bugs and you thought because [TS]

  it's just a good design that's just a [TS]

  matter of like mechanically making that [TS]

  design successful it is so much less [TS]

  painful than when you you know do your [TS]

  best effort to implement something that [TS]

  is ultimately a flawed designer that [TS]

  you're asking to do something that it [TS]

  wasn't meant to do so so kudos to the [TS]

  file system team for coming up with the [TS]

  fascism that has this property in its [TS]

  design that it can do this and then also [TS]

  by the way successfully doing it yeah [TS]

  it's just it's really impressive and and [TS]

  you know I've heard rumors a couple of [TS]

  years ago right around new years about [TS]

  how their software software reliability [TS]

  really had gone down the crapper and [TS]

  this is a positive step in the other [TS]

  direction yeah I I really am very [TS]

  impressed with the relative a PFS like [TS]

  if you would have asked us back when it [TS]

  was announced this past summer like what [TS]

  devices do we think we'll have it first [TS]

  I figure out whether we actually did [TS]

  speculate on this or not but we would [TS]

  have almost certainly said they would [TS]

  have been the most careful and would [TS]

  have taken the longest to put it on the [TS]

  iPhone because they have the most [TS]

  iPhones it's the most high-profile [TS]

  device right the fact that they deployed [TS]

  on a hundred percent of iphones with it [TS]

  well you know hundreds of 64-bit iphones [TS]

  with this newest update at first as like [TS]

  the first deployment of this file system [TS]

  is incredibly impressive very bold and [TS]

  and the fact that as you said there were [TS]

  really seemingly no problems with it [TS]

  incredibly cool you know even though [TS]

  john says it's easy ish you know I no [TS]

  asterisk at first but you know I [TS]

  recognize that is the design allows it [TS]

  to happen sure I think item and that was [TS]

  the important part of the decision not [TS]

  you know you know I mean like with this [TS]

  design you that's why I feel like they [TS]

  can be emboldened to do this because if [TS]

  they had a different design no matter [TS]

  how careful they were it could be the [TS]

  correct move would [TS]

  and we can never upgrade people in place [TS]

  the only way we roll this out is by [TS]

  people buying new phones because we have [TS]

  no way to safely convert that would have [TS]

  had to be the decision if you didn't [TS]

  have a system like this because it would [TS]

  be crazy to say well we're going to [TS]

  start these 50-minute upgrades and if [TS]

  anything goes wrong that unimportant [TS]

  people's phones are bricked and then by [TS]

  the way they lose all their data because [TS]

  we've just basically scrambled it into [TS]

  soup if that was the choice you had to [TS]

  say there is no conversion you will get [TS]

  a PFS when you buy a new iphone that's [TS]

  it yeah and and the fact that that they [TS]

  were able to do this and that they just [TS]

  did it kind of silently in this point [TS]

  update it wasn't even like a major OS [TS]

  update that's that's pretty cool and it [TS]

  does make a lot of sense on a phone in [TS]

  the sense that like as we mentioned when [TS]

  this was first announced like on a phone [TS]

  the entire software ecosystem around [TS]

  phones is meant for you to ideally if as [TS]

  long as you participate in the various [TS]

  cloud services and backup services that [TS]

  ideally your phone can get flushed down [TS]

  a toilet at any moment and you can go [TS]

  buy a new phone and log in and have [TS]

  everything just you know restore to it [TS]

  so in that sense it is kind of a lower [TS]

  risk than the way most people's max were [TS]

  set up but still deploying it to their [TS]

  largest device family and highest [TS]

  profile device family were like if [TS]

  anything went wrong it would have been [TS]

  massive headline news that was a bold [TS]

  move and they did it they did it well so [TS]

  kudos to them yeah the other the [TS]

  countervailing forces of course why [TS]

  would they even bother doing out of the [TS]

  Mac because they care so much more about [TS]

  the iphone so it's like how much you [TS]

  care about the product and want to [TS]

  invest in it versus the incredible [TS]

  danger as you said of like if you make a [TS]

  mistake on the iPhone it's a big deal [TS]

  and I don't know if the tenth rebate it [TS]

  was longer than normal but I think [TS]

  having wider more public betas for [TS]

  longer periods of time is another [TS]

  another factor in making them feel okay [TS]

  and going forward this again even with [TS]

  the good design just to make sure that [TS]

  you know you do have everything worked [TS]

  out because because this doesn't move [TS]

  any of the data like this the conversion [TS]

  in effect does kind of an equivalent of [TS]

  the hfs+ fsck because it has to go find [TS]

  where all the data is again kind of like [TS]

  when you run disk first aid and it finds [TS]

  out like you know some some metadata is [TS]

  wrong because there's some space on your [TS]

  disk aletta thought was occupied but [TS]

  it's actually free or something and it [TS]

  updates its metadata it has to crawl [TS]

  over every little bit of data and find [TS]

  out where all of it is so maybe that [TS]

  also is [TS]

  performed as part of the conversion but [TS]

  still if there are mistakes somewhere on [TS]

  your on your on your disk essentially [TS]

  nothing you have a disk in there this is [TS]

  not going to fix them it's going to [TS]

  preserve them and they're going still [TS]

  going to be there so if you have some [TS]

  sort of problem it's in theory even [TS]

  though they're not modifying the data it [TS]

  could you know upon rebooting or doing [TS]

  something else because the difference in [TS]

  the way a PFS works it could reveal [TS]

  upright of a pre-existing age of us plus [TS]

  problem i have no idea phones ever run [TS]

  fsck or how they deal with that but [TS]

  considering they have run hfs+ for so [TS]

  long those same errors that we all find [TS]

  when we run disk utility or max surely [TS]

  are there on our phones as well and [TS]

  nothing about this conversion process is [TS]

  is going to help them along goodness [TS]

  right anything else on a PFS i'm [TS]

  surprised i mean this is this is your [TS]

  crowning moment my friend this is Swift [TS]

  I wanna know my mac i'm just a mac guy [TS]

  and just a mac guy at heart like it's [TS]

  cool that it's on the phone but you know [TS]

  like I on the mac because I woke you can [TS]

  you can feel the coolness more on Mac on [TS]

  the mac and theory that the finder [TS]

  implements the like instant copy thing [TS]

  you can take like a you know 20 gig file [TS]

  and duplicate it and see that it happens [TS]

  in a fraction of a second your disk [TS]

  space doesn't go down you don't get that [TS]

  kind of experience on a phone come on oh [TS]

  yeah alright Tom Jones rights in that's [TS]

  not the singer right he writes then I [TS]

  heard John extolling the virtues of [TS]

  being able to just say to the air how [TS]

  many teaspoons are there in a cup and [TS]

  his Amazon echo would answer the [TS]

  question and Thomas provided the answer [TS]

  which is 48 while there's no doubt that [TS]

  this is a great thing to be able to do [TS]

  you can also do that with the iphone [TS]

  something he would certainly know if he [TS]

  had said what was it ahoy telephone in a [TS]

  or Fiat had a high telephone enabled for [TS]

  more than a couple of weeks I put the [TS]

  center is that we talked about in last [TS]

  show but apparently didn't emphasize it [TS]

  enough like what is the difference [TS]

  between you know a setting aside how [TS]

  well the services do when they [TS]

  understand you what is it there between [TS]

  hasty versus having a cylinder in your [TS]

  house that listens to you I'll did I do [TS]

  it again say if you love my phone so no [TS]

  problem here the big difference the big [TS]

  difference is that cylinders do not move [TS]

  like you [TS]

  the men to the wall and they're in a [TS]

  particular place and that also on top of [TS]

  that cylinders in my experience have [TS]

  better microphones maybe it's because [TS]

  they're stationary maybe it's because [TS]

  the upright babies because they just [TS]

  have more mics at the glamazon echo has [TS]

  many mics in it yeah and what that means [TS]

  is the experience of talking to the air [TS]

  two things one is going to be more [TS]

  successful because the thing doesn't [TS]

  move in and has more mics so it's always [TS]

  going to be in the same proximity so you [TS]

  can get a feel for when and how can I [TS]

  say this and how loud do I have to speak [TS]

  to be heard and everything because this [TS]

  not variable and to the most important [TS]

  thing that I would mention when I was [TS]

  talking about talking two cylinders is [TS]

  getting over the idea like getting [TS]

  yourself to instinctively understand [TS]

  that something is listening [TS]

  understanding that you can talk to the [TS]

  air because if you have to think about [TS]

  it first hmm maybe I should ask this to [TS]

  the air Oh is the thing in the air [TS]

  nearby or listening to be like getting [TS]

  over that so it becomes unconscious and [TS]

  so you just expect it to be there to do [TS]

  that you have to you have to know you [TS]

  have to you have to not have to think [TS]

  about is the cylinder near where is it [TS]

  and with my phone my phone is all over [TS]

  the house right my phone could be [TS]

  upstairs downstairs in a different room [TS]

  whatever the cylinders don't move and [TS]

  that lets me eventually become [TS]

  comfortable when I'm say in the kitchen [TS]

  which is always a fixed distance from [TS]

  where my cylinder is knowing that I can [TS]

  rely on the thing being there whereas I [TS]

  have I don't want to think about where [TS]

  is my phone right or is my phone [TS]

  facedown or face up or in a case or [TS]

  buried underneath someone's hat on an [TS]

  end table so it can't hear me or [TS]

  anything like that and so setting aside [TS]

  again what it does when it hears you and [TS]

  the variability of how good these [TS]

  devices are at this like a group of just [TS]

  posted a thing about a car play versus [TS]

  Android auto and which see read not come [TS]

  out looking particularly good and not [TS]

  because it couldn't understand people [TS]

  because that is another fixed distance [TS]

  for microphone thing but that you would [TS]

  think this is a minor thing but the [TS]

  cylinders being stationary and having [TS]

  better Mike's is what makes the [TS]

  experience get over the hump for me [TS]

  anyway from being maybe I could [TS]

  occasionally talk to my telephone if it [TS]

  happens to be nearby versus one hundred [TS]

  percent when I'm in my kitchen I can [TS]

  shout out a route you know a thing to [TS]

  set a timer and it will just be said and [TS]

  it will hear me the first time and it [TS]

  will always work and I don't have to [TS]

  think of [TS]

  or anything else i own is we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by Backblaze [TS]

  unlimited native online backup for mac [TS]

  and pc for a free trial visit backblaze [TS]

  calm / ATP i love backblaze because [TS]

  here's the thing i love online backup [TS]

  the concept of online backup is amazing [TS]

  because there are so many hazards that [TS]

  could happen to your computer that could [TS]

  that could lose your data and even if [TS]

  you have say a time machine drive or you [TS]

  know a local disk clone of some sort [TS]

  that is good you should probably have it [TS]

  back please even says you should have [TS]

  that as well because it's fast to [TS]

  restore from those and they can be very [TS]

  convenient but you also need online [TS]

  backup because there are lots of hazards [TS]

  that can happen to your computer that [TS]

  would also affect any backup drive is [TS]

  connected to it or it's in the same [TS]

  house or apartment or business as the [TS]

  computer so things like fires floods [TS]

  theft malware that there are so many [TS]

  risks that can happen and online backup [TS]

  protects from so many of those it's such [TS]

  great peace of mind to just have it [TS]

  always be running it's automatic it's [TS]

  always there backing up your files safe [TS]

  and sound you don't have to remember to [TS]

  do anything you don't do wait till [TS]

  you're at home or wait to the computers [TS]

  asleep or whatever else it's just always [TS]

  running always keeping you safe [TS]

  Backblaze is in my opinion I've tried [TS]

  many of them backblaze is the best one [TS]

  of these they can't pay me to say that [TS]

  I'm telling you that because I believe [TS]

  it it is my favorite one it's the one I [TS]

  use the one I trust my family's data to [TS]

  and all my business data to because [TS]

  backblaze is great you have unlimited [TS]

  space you just pay per computer five [TS]

  bucks a month for unlimited space per [TS]

  computer my wife has a computer I have a [TS]

  computer so we pay him ten bucks a month [TS]

  I think we have like six or seven [TS]

  terabytes in there we have some obscene [TS]

  amount of storage in there because it's [TS]

  unlimited you just pay per computer and [TS]

  it backed up anything connected to that [TS]

  computer it's wonderful and they have [TS]

  great features like a mobile apps you [TS]

  can restore files right onto your phone [TS]

  or tablet iOS and Android so if you like [TS]

  want to get a file off your home [TS]

  computer if you're traveling or whatever [TS]

  else you can get it through Backblaze [TS]

  they also have very easy restores you [TS]

  can go online for restores you can also [TS]

  have a hard drive over enter to you via [TS]

  FedEx and if you send it back within 30 [TS]

  days you get a refund it's they have [TS]

  such great options their client is [TS]

  amazing fully native code not nothing [TS]

  with Java or anything like that [TS]

  fully native code and it's fast and it [TS]

  does not choke when you have tons and [TS]

  tons of files like I do I love Backblaze [TS]

  I suggest you check it out go to [TS]

  backblaze calm / ATP for a 15 day trial [TS]

  no credit card required no risk a [TS]

  totally free 15 day trial Backblaze calm [TS]

  / ATP unlimited native online backup [TS]

  thank you very much to back please [TS]

  respond during our show ah tell me John [TS]

  about the even naked a robotic core has [TS]

  they do put this in your business [TS]

  another apple patent thing and it [TS]

  doesn't involve patent hands which is [TS]

  the main thing I enjoy patents for um [TS]

  apple patents everything and every time [TS]

  someone comes out with an apple apple [TS]

  patent is published the sites post it [TS]

  and say look at this thing that Apple [TS]

  patented and at least at this point most [TS]

  sites don't say maybe this is coming [TS]

  soon they just a look apple patents [TS]

  everything but I think this one is it [TS]

  goes to show all ideas are on the table [TS]

  when it comes to patenting things this [TS]

  is you can see it from the little [TS]

  picture here it's like a laptop but [TS]

  imagine that where the trackpad is some [TS]

  someone took a router and router doubt [TS]

  the trackpad you can't even do this on [TS]

  modern laptops or too thin but router it [TS]

  out the trackpad to the thickness and [TS]

  shape of a phone and instead of the [TS]

  trackpad dropped an iphone into there [TS]

  and the idea is this would light be like [TS]

  giving your iPhone a bigger screen and a [TS]

  physical keyboard and then the iphone [TS]

  would really become a glass trackpad for [TS]

  the whole rest of the device so sort of [TS]

  turning your phone into a laptop an even [TS]

  more bizarre way than turning your ipad [TS]

  into a laptop and in some respects this [TS]

  doesn't strike me as entirely ridiculous [TS]

  the reasons this is related to make a [TS]

  robotic or it's like look we'll give you [TS]

  the little skinny computing core and [TS]

  whatever you want to put around it is [TS]

  fine if you want to put a 13 inch screen [TS]

  in a physical keyboard around it sure go [TS]

  for it because the iphone is plenty fast [TS]

  and the current top of my iphone i [TS]

  believe is currently faster than the [TS]

  macbook right in single-threaded anyway [TS]

  probably in certain thing yeah it's ram [TS]

  starved compared to the macbook but oh [TS]

  it's got half i guess this does the [TS]

  macbook have the macbook one have four [TS]

  gigs it has eight all right well so it's [TS]

  still ram star putting [TS]

  this idea that eventually phones have [TS]

  become powerful enough to do basic [TS]

  computing tasks and you can just carry [TS]

  the phone around with you and if you [TS]

  ever want a laptop all you would do is [TS]

  snap your little nacre about a car phone [TS]

  into a lap shop top shape thing and then [TS]

  sit down and you know do a bunch of [TS]

  writing or bang out some email or do web [TS]

  browsing on a larger screen and then [TS]

  when you're done yank your phone out of [TS]

  the little router channel and snapshot [TS]

  the the now lifeless corpse of a laptop [TS]

  that's probably a bad name for this [TS]

  product corpse and then go on your way [TS]

  with your phone I think that's actually [TS]

  kind of neat the problem of course being [TS]

  that I believe apples laptops are now [TS]

  thinner than their phones at that part [TS]

  especially the macbook one so I'm [TS]

  probably not going to happen it's just a [TS]

  silly patent but I like thinking about [TS]

  stuff like this also I don't know if I [TS]

  mean this this probably could change but [TS]

  if you feel if you put your iPhone next [TS]

  to your trackpad and you feel them both [TS]

  the trackpad has a more slippery finish [TS]

  because you're moving all over a lot [TS]

  more often whereas the glass on a phone [TS]

  is a little bit more of a tacky higher [TS]

  friction finish your complaining by the [TS]

  thumb friction again yeah and I'm not [TS]

  entirely sure that you could make a [TS]

  surface that would feel good on both of [TS]

  those you make the back of the phone the [TS]

  capacitive touch well they want to just [TS]

  put the phone to the side of the laptop [TS]

  like an optical drive way well yeah one [TS]

  thing they don't answer in this diagram [TS]

  I didn't read the patent medicine is [TS]

  like how how the phone would make a [TS]

  connection to the corpse she'll like [TS]

  because if it goes straight down in you [TS]

  can't you can't have the like does [TS]

  something come out and go into the [TS]

  Lightning connector a little mechanical [TS]

  thing it doesn't really make much sense [TS]

  than me but it could be like an NES reap [TS]

  you slide it in first and you push it [TS]

  down yeah then you have gaps Johnny I [TS]

  would have to want to be like seamless [TS]

  we're just you know well then you gotta [TS]

  like take it out blow on it put it back [TS]

  in the power light blinks I'll blow it [TS]

  again don't blow it's bad for your carts [TS]

  um did you ever see a thing with the [TS]

  most like electrostatic cutting of metal [TS]

  where they will take a block of metal [TS]

  like a solid cube of metal and cut out [TS]

  like a cylinder shape in the middle of [TS]

  it and do it with such precision and [TS]

  with such a small gap that if you take [TS]

  the cylinder and put it into the hole [TS]

  like you take them apart oh yeah yeah [TS]

  you take the cylinder and put into the [TS]

  hole it's [TS]

  Olli slides down because like the [TS]

  world's tightest fit and when it finally [TS]

  slides down all the way you can't even [TS]

  see the line around it I love that stuff [TS]

  all right wow we did well on follow-up [TS]

  look at us mostly because we moved half [TS]

  of this room follow-up to topics but [TS]

  still move the waffles down because now [TS]

  we're gonna yeah it's kind of cheating [TS]

  that's right oh well I mean I don't know [TS]

  they I could have seen waffles go either [TS]

  way but you wanted to go lower that's [TS]

  fine because because technically [TS]

  speaking is in this never-ending chain [TS]

  of Marcos laptop orders if it is [TS]

  eternally follow-up it just it just [TS]

  feels like he's he's like doing a combo [TS]

  chain and a fighting game that's going [TS]

  on Wayde point yeah anyone wanted to the [TS]

  combo breaker noise that maybe regret [TS]

  anyway certain point you do a combo [TS]

  breaker that's what we're doing here mar [TS]

  no he's in the topic area talking about [TS]

  his delicious delicious waffles indeed [TS]

  so Marco tell us about those waffles of [TS]

  years all right yes the last episode I [TS]

  described my waffling where I finally [TS]

  decided that I didn't I really didn't [TS]

  like the 15 inch touch bar macbook pro [TS]

  and I was ordering a 13-inch macbook [TS]

  escape to replace it which fills our [TS]

  you're not familiar with my stupid names [TS]

  for things is the low-end macbook pro [TS]

  13-inch that does not have the touch bar [TS]

  that has the real Hardware escape button [TS]

  among other things don't apologize for [TS]

  your names they're not stupid they're [TS]

  better than apples names yeah that's [TS]

  right it's true the name of this Pro is [TS]

  it the reason I I came up with these [TS]

  stupid names is because apples names [TS]

  aren't useful like when they first [TS]

  introduced the 12-inch MacBook and they [TS]

  said this is the macbooks like well okay [TS]

  there was already something called [TS]

  macbook that everyone knew and [TS]

  everything else is called macbook pro [TS]

  and people kind of use the word macbook [TS]

  to describe the whole lineup and yeah so [TS]

  now they have this 13-inch MacBook Pro [TS]

  which is quite different from the other [TS]

  computer name 13-inch macbook pro so [TS]

  anyway so I now have it I got it a few [TS]

  days ago I want to reserve final [TS]

  judgement for when I've had a chance to [TS]

  travel with it and it's fortunately [TS]

  happening in like a week because I [TS]

  haven't really tried pushing it yet like [TS]

  I haven't tried travel with it yet and I [TS]

  haven't really pushed its hardware yet [TS]

  although the photo analysis d is doing [TS]

  its job for who knows the next month I [TS]

  have no idea when I will complete [TS]

  because there's no progress meter know [TS]

  deposit or suspend it or tell what to do [TS]

  or tell to please not analyze all the [TS]

  photos right now you know is real i sit [TS]

  oh you know I didn't think well I think [TS]

  it's already running in like a fairly [TS]

  low priority environment I know what the [TS]

  lowest number is anyone know a little [TS]

  bit will never complete is better you [TS]

  want you ready to do the you know the [TS]

  race to sleep thing let it hurry up and [TS]

  finish yeah so at some point that will [TS]

  calm down probably hopefully before i [TS]

  leave for my trip but anyway from just [TS]

  the experience of using it for a few [TS]

  days from setting up on my software on [TS]

  it and we'll get to one of the details [TS]

  that in a little bit i think but just [TS]

  from the experience of like setting it [TS]

  up and using it that way for a while and [TS]

  and doing a few nights of kind of casual [TS]

  stuff on it like browsing the web and [TS]

  getting you know light work done like [TS]

  email and stuff so far i love it i [TS]

  absolutely love it and i never felt that [TS]

  way about the 15-inch like the 15-inch I [TS]

  love the 15-inch retina and that when I [TS]

  came out in 2012 I immediately loved it [TS]

  that that machine was awesome for its [TS]

  time still today is pretty awesome but [TS]

  when when the 15 touch bar when I first [TS]

  got it I never loved it I was I was just [TS]

  kind of thrown by all the different [TS]

  compromises and kind of sideways and [TS]

  backwards steps from the previous one [TS]

  this is basically a macbook air but a [TS]

  modern-day interpretation of it in many [TS]

  ways you know it's the same weight I [TS]

  mean so is the other 13 inch with touch [TS]

  bar same way a little bit smaller modern [TS]

  you know modern case design same Intel [TS]

  processor family which has those awesome [TS]

  like 16 or 15 watt ish processors which [TS]

  I've said before on this show are an [TS]

  amazing balance of speed versus [TS]

  portability like there it's a really [TS]

  nice sweet spot and I'm really glad [TS]

  they're they're using these still [TS]

  because those are previous previously [TS]

  only using the macbook air and the low [TS]

  end mac mini and i think even the [TS]

  cheapest 20 22 HR 24-inch imac that [TS]

  education buyers by anyway so far i [TS]

  absolutely love it the keyboard is the [TS]

  same as all the new keyboards you know i [TS]

  don't love the low key [TS]

  travel I don't love how closely spaced [TS]

  all the keys are which makes me make a [TS]

  few more mistakes than I usually do the [TS]

  force touch trackpad is among force [TS]

  touch trackpads i have used i think it's [TS]

  probably the best one I still don't love [TS]

  for stocks track pads but this is the [TS]

  best one I've used thermally I think [TS]

  it's really nicely balanced it stays [TS]

  very cool and you hardly ever hear the [TS]

  fan no matter how hard it's working when [TS]

  it totally maxed out you will hear the [TS]

  fan but even then it's pretty quiet it [TS]

  doesn't get very hot to the touch this [TS]

  is this is one thing I notice with all [TS]

  the new macbook pros compare when you [TS]

  compared to the previous generation you [TS]

  know the the the retina generation with [TS]

  the you know has well and when you [TS]

  compare this the new skylake ones to [TS]

  those one thing you notice immediately [TS]

  I'm actually confirm this with Intel's [TS]

  power gadget thing or power which [TS]

  whatever they call it cpus even when [TS]

  they're under load these new skylake [TS]

  processors don't usually hit their [TS]

  maximum thermal limits whereas the old [TS]

  ones would kind of like hit that like 45 [TS]

  watt or whatever they would like hit [TS]

  that wall and just kind of stay there [TS]

  the skylight kind of peeks at it here [TS]

  and there but it doesn't really stay at [TS]

  that maximum wattage for whatever reason [TS]

  and so when you're doing intensive [TS]

  things these new macbook pros are cooler [TS]

  to the touch and quieter than the [TS]

  previous generation and this one is no [TS]

  exception of that it's very cool very [TS]

  quiet I that to me is very very nice one [TS]

  other major advantage to it compared to [TS]

  the 15 is that because it doesn't have [TS]

  that discrete GPU I don't have to like [TS]

  babysit whether it's using that GPU by [TS]

  any programs or not when I'm trying to [TS]

  maximize battery life because that's the [TS]

  thing with the 15 is like when the 15 is [TS]

  using that discrete GPU your battery [TS]

  life gets slaughtered so you kind of if [TS]

  you're like a power user trying to like [TS]

  make sure you get the most battery life [TS]

  out of it you kind of have to always be [TS]

  monitoring with some kind of utility or [TS]

  something like whether the whether the [TS]

  discrete GPUs on or not and you kind of [TS]

  have to babysit it and and maybe like [TS]

  make different app decisions like oh my [TS]

  guess guess I can't run chrome right now [TS]

  I don't have enough power or whatever [TS]

  you know whatever the case may be this [TS]

  one by not having a discrete GPU it kind [TS]

  of keeps like the the difference between [TS]

  like the the high thermal envelope and [TS]

  the low thermal envelope is a smaller [TS]

  range so you can you can [TS]

  you can worry less about battery life [TS]

  with this so far now again I might model [TS]

  for that decision once I have a chance [TS]

  to travel with it but so far this is [TS]

  awesome now also about the touch bar and [TS]

  touch ID so I had the touch bar touch ID [TS]

  for a little while for minam five months [TS]

  or whatever it's been I now don't have [TS]

  them anymore I don't miss the touch bar [TS]

  at all the very first time I wanted to [TS]

  adjust brightness and I had to like hit [TS]

  a button a few times instead of sliding [TS]

  a thing I thought oh I kind of missed [TS]

  the slider thing then I immediately [TS]

  stopped I amelie forgot about it don't [TS]

  miss the tux bar at all touch ID I I [TS]

  thought I would miss a lot in practice I [TS]

  do miss touch ID but I don't miss it as [TS]

  much as I thought I would because in [TS]

  practice touch ID on on the 15 Inchon [TS]

  and the 13 touch bar is not always there [TS]

  when you want it and this is probably [TS]

  going to improve over time I hope but [TS]

  there's a lot of system dialogues and [TS]

  things where they ask where you need to [TS]

  give it your password that touch idea is [TS]

  is offered for maybe a third of them [TS]

  that I've seen and not all of them and [TS]

  so you actually aren't using it all the [TS]

  time so I found that it is nice when [TS]

  it's offered to you but that it because [TS]

  it's offered so in consistently and [TS]

  sometimes there's a few bugs we are in [TS]

  touch with you especially at the login [TS]

  screen when you're waking it up from [TS]

  sleep I find overall that I actually [TS]

  don't miss it as much as I expected I [TS]

  would because in practice while it [TS]

  sounds like it's going to be amazing [TS]

  once you have it in practice you realize [TS]

  yeah it's not quite there yet so this is [TS]

  another thing we're like along with the [TS]

  touch bar I think this would probably be [TS]

  good in a few years or at least better [TS]

  in a few years but for this current [TS]

  laptop generation if you choose not to [TS]

  get the touch bar I don't think you're [TS]

  missing that much because touch ID is [TS]

  still not all the way there yet and the [TS]

  touch bar itself I i think is still a [TS]

  big question mark about whether it's [TS]

  really a net win or not and for me for [TS]

  my usage personally at my preferences [TS]

  your mileage may vary but for my [TS]

  usage in preferences I'm very happy [TS]

  without it I like having my Hardware [TS]

  Escape key back I like having all the [TS]

  buttons up top that are just buttons and [TS]

  they just work all the time I love not [TS]

  not accidentally brushing it when I'm [TS]

  moving my hands around and accidentally [TS]

  like turning the brightness way up or [TS]

  turn the speaker waiting or something [TS]

  like it is nice too it's also just nice [TS]

  to have a kind of I know this is weird [TS]

  but it's kind of like a simpler look [TS]

  like the touch bari is actually kind of [TS]

  distracting and it looks kind of [TS]

  gimmicky and so to have a nice simpler [TS]

  like more pure look if that makes sense [TS]

  is a little bit more I don't know [TS]

  peaceful it's hard it's hard to really [TS]

  quantify these feelings but overall I'm [TS]

  actually quite happy not having a touch [TS]

  bar and this machine in general I'm [TS]

  extremely happy with the only things i [TS]

  can say that that are downsides to it [TS]

  are what i mentioned last week which is [TS]

  the price is really not a great value [TS]

  for what you're getting although it i [TS]

  guess you know how much is your [TS]

  happiness worth but you know like if you [TS]

  look at like specs but by the specs but [TS]

  and the power and when you compare it to [TS]

  the previous generation of macbook air [TS]

  which is still for sale because apple [TS]

  it's not a great value it is a lot more [TS]

  expensive than it was before and the [TS]

  configuration i got which is basically [TS]

  everything maxed out except for the i [TS]

  got 5 12 months of a terabyte is [TS]

  something like twenty two hundred [TS]

  dollars and for something that is not a [TS]

  15-inch that's a pretty high price that [TS]

  being said i'm happier with it that my [TS]

  15 inch so you know what does that say [TS]

  the other thing is i remember when these [TS]

  first came out we talked briefly in the [TS]

  show there was there was a guy i forget [TS]

  his name he's a youtuber that everyone [TS]

  else knows except us because we're not [TS]

  cool were too old to watch youtube I [TS]

  guess but there was a youtuber who did a [TS]

  bunch of tests we're plugging in certain [TS]

  things to the USB seaports would make [TS]

  the Wi-Fi cut out on the new macbook [TS]

  pros and I think that was this model [TS]

  that he was testing because I think that [TS]

  was the only one was available at that [TS]

  time I think I have a Wi-Fi problem in [TS]

  that sometimes like as I was like [TS]

  installing lots of stuff and like you [TS]

  know downloading lots of stuff sometimes [TS]

  all the internet connections would [TS]

  just stop working and until until I [TS]

  turned off the Wi-Fi and turned it back [TS]

  on again that and that happened like [TS]

  three times over a few days so I think I [TS]

  have a problem and I and I hope it [TS]

  doesn't apply to all of them and I'm not [TS]

  sure that's enough of a problem to [TS]

  actually like get this repair to replace [TS]

  because I don't want to mess with that [TS]

  everything else about it is perfect I [TS]

  love everything else about it actually I [TS]

  don't love the keyboard but relative [TS]

  relative to what we have today you know [TS]

  relative to our choices today this is [TS]

  great but I'm a little concerned about [TS]

  that Wi-Fi thing but otherwise if that [TS]

  doesn't end up being a problem in [TS]

  practice most of the time I would just [TS]

  tolerate it because otherwise this [TS]

  computer is awesome you know the 15-inch [TS]

  is great if you're doing you know Casey [TS]

  what you do which is you have like a [TS]

  work a work laptop that you take to and [TS]

  from work or that is like your primary [TS]

  computer or your only computer if that's [TS]

  your situation I think it does make [TS]

  sense for a lot of people to use the [TS]

  15-inch because it is the most computer [TS]

  that you can get for a little over 2,000 [TS]

  bucks it is a great you know power [TS]

  system and its really nice in a lot of [TS]

  ways and I used one for years and and I [TS]

  I that's there's a reason why I have [TS]

  waffled over time between the 13 inch [TS]

  and 15 inch size classes because they're [TS]

  both great but for me right now as a [TS]

  secondary computer that i use when [TS]

  traveling right now i'm really happy [TS]

  with this 13 inch and you know you could [TS]

  point this clip and laugh in four months [TS]

  or six months when i change my mind and [TS]

  say I got to go back to the 15-inch this [TS]

  is not enough power or screen face [TS]

  whatever that's being generous it's [TS]

  gonna be four weeks well took for like [TS]

  five months on this one but anyway so [TS]

  you know I might change my mind later I [TS]

  probably will that's just what i do i [TS]

  guess a vertex podcasters like they'll [TS]

  like try android phones for a month i do [TS]

  this i guess this is my thing but right [TS]

  now i'm extremely happy with this [TS]

  13-inch macbook pro with no good name [TS]

  and yeah that's my review so far ask me [TS]

  again after i travel with it and try to [TS]

  actually do work on it but so far i'm [TS]

  very happy with it so that why if I [TS]

  think has me worried me too I don't like [TS]

  that [TS]

  especially if I can't attribute a reason [TS]

  do you have 10 12 for on it yeah a 10-12 [TS]

  for from from minute one it didn't come [TS]

  with it but I upgrade that was the first [TS]

  thing I did when I got it and when when [TS]

  the wife I dropped it was not plugged [TS]

  into anything yeah so that is concerning [TS]

  the fact that this computer has now been [TS]

  out for six months and that is still [TS]

  happening suggests to me that this is a [TS]

  parent flaw with the design of this [TS]

  model that they're not going to fix [TS]

  until the next model comes out if you [TS]

  think it's a hardware thing then [TS]

  probably yeah but we will see I don't [TS]

  like this kind of problems I don't like [TS]

  them at all well that's why you don't [TS]

  buy any computers ever that's very true [TS]

  my computer has no Wi-Fi problems [TS]

  because it doesn't have Wi-Fi nailed it [TS]

  it's as it so happens the the 2008 Mac [TS]

  Pro that you have that I used to have is [TS]

  probably the computer i have had that [TS]

  had the fewest problems ever of any [TS]

  computer i've ever had so you happen to [TS]

  lock out with that one but i think [TS]

  anything else you buy are gonna be [TS]

  disappointed say I mean so far the [TS]

  fingers crossed 5k imac is doing its [TS]

  thing without complaint oh my image [TS]

  retention is getting really bad really [TS]

  fast it's good bet every time I do [TS]

  anything great way if i open up logic or [TS]

  if I view daring fireball I just see the [TS]

  immense shadows of everything that i was [TS]

  viewing before right me playing zelda [TS]

  seeing those heart shadows yeah it's [TS]

  it's bad you know what i did marco to [TS]

  help fix that I'm really not trying to [TS]

  be snarky is you know that what is it [TS]

  Ariel screensaver that we've all I think [TS]

  mentioned at some point the ones the [TS]

  appletv one yeah yeah exactly Ariel is [TS]

  the name of the screensaver what I've [TS]

  done is I've put that on my 5k which [TS]

  I've occasionally seen some image [TS]

  retention that it's made me very unhappy [TS]

  I've put I've set my mac to run that [TS]

  screen saver for like an hour or two [TS]

  after i'm done with the computer so that [TS]

  you have something that is constantly [TS]

  moving and kind of getting me back to a [TS]

  known good state for all I know this is [TS]

  a darn placebo but as far as I can tell [TS]

  it has made my image retention way way [TS]

  way better want to try getting a scream [TS]

  with some technology that doesn't suffer [TS]

  from image retention what you said to me [TS]

  last time I complained about my plasma [TS]

  as you both complain about your lcds [TS]

  with image a good thing oh that doesn't [TS]

  have these problems oh wait it does [TS]

  I mean in case like that year that would [TS]

  actually help my problem because my [TS]

  problem is not like I walked away for 10 [TS]

  minutes it's like as I'm using it like I [TS]

  happen to have this one window open for [TS]

  an hour as I was working in it and that [TS]

  was like it's getting in you know an [TS]

  image trenchant it's the kind of thing [TS]

  we're like you know sometimes you have [TS]

  it like right at the beginning but [TS]

  usually like you know when the things [TS]

  brand new it doesn't have it and then if [TS]

  you're going to give it to me a problem [TS]

  like you won't notice it for a while and [TS]

  then all of a sudden they'll start being [TS]

  noticeable and then it gets it gets [TS]

  worse usually at an accelerating rate [TS]

  after that point someone someone who [TS]

  knows more about the chemistry and [TS]

  electronics of lcds could probably tell [TS]

  us why this is a factor in these modern [TS]

  LG panels or whatever it is we're using [TS]

  and why for example I'm staring at the [TS]

  Apple 23 inch cinema display an aluminum [TS]

  case with white sides that has no image [TS]

  retention ever and it's like the lowly [TS]

  the oldest thing ever like there must is [TS]

  again it's not just like Oh LCD versus [TS]

  plasma vs whatever it's the particular [TS]

  screens and so maybe there's been [TS]

  something about modern screens in the [TS]

  way they're constructed and formulated [TS]

  or maybe just buy a particular [TS]

  manufacturers that makes them so much [TS]

  more susceptible to image retention [TS]

  under casual circumstances like again [TS]

  we've all seen like they the check-in [TS]

  kiosks at the airport that it is super [TS]

  burned in so like at a certain point if [TS]

  you show the same image on the screen 24 [TS]

  hours a day seven days a week except for [TS]

  brief periods of activity of course it's [TS]

  going to happen but you're just using [TS]

  your 5k imac it's pretty light usage [TS]

  compared to an airport terminal you just [TS]

  say like I have daring fireball open for [TS]

  a second then I click to another window [TS]

  to go in front of it and I see the [TS]

  little star embedded in the window or [TS]

  vice versa seeing no it's the opposite [TS]

  it's like when you have a bunch of black [TS]

  and white windows up and then you load [TS]

  something great like daring fireball or [TS]

  logic then you see shadows of every of [TS]

  all those black and white borders that [TS]

  were previously there yeah so and it's [TS]

  it's sticking around long or NASA to [TS]

  before to like I an entire podcast today [TS]

  like I edited under the radar today [TS]

  which this middle he doesn't take me [TS]

  that long take like 10 minutes to edit [TS]

  but like that entire ten-minute I had a [TS]

  shadow of the window behind it yeah not [TS]

  not going away that's the other thing by [TS]

  the by like my plasma obviously it's [TS]

  worse on my plasma because when it does [TS]

  get there you're going to be waiting [TS]

  like a year for it to be an entirely [TS]

  gone whereas image retention like my [TS]

  ipad3 had pretty bad image [TS]

  too but as bad as it was and you could [TS]

  see it it was like three to five minutes [TS]

  and it would be a hundred percent gone [TS]

  and so that's prepara likes me feel like [TS]

  oh it's an annoyance but but it's not [TS]

  like I have to wait a year for this to [TS]

  go away but anyway they didn't Apple do [TS]

  a recall replace for Aaron's retention I [TS]

  think it was on the original retina [TS]

  15-inch macbook pro right there were [TS]

  certain i think it was certain ones but [TS]

  mine wasn't even part of that like I had [TS]

  that original one it did have it much [TS]

  attention and I eventually got it fixed [TS]

  but it took a long time yeah one thing [TS]

  before before I forget on the macbook [TS]

  escape screen it is a beautiful screen I [TS]

  absolutely love it and this is actually [TS]

  so you know as I'm setting everything up [TS]

  new one of the things I did you know I [TS]

  usually pick pick a background that's [TS]

  some photo i took recently that i like [TS]

  and the photo i picked for this one [TS]

  includes my son wearing a like really [TS]

  bright saturated orange jacket and i [TS]

  think this is the the the p3 color gamut [TS]

  helped me out here because this this [TS]

  very saturated orange color just looks [TS]

  incredible on the screen it's this is [TS]

  the first screen I've ever seen that [TS]

  makes my first gen 5k I max screen look [TS]

  less good by comparison every other [TS]

  previous retina laptop looked worse to [TS]

  me this one looks awesome now that being [TS]

  said the same thing probably applies to [TS]

  the 15-inch I'd use a different picture [TS]

  for the wallpaper on that one so the [TS]

  same thing probably applies to the new [TS]

  15 but just to point out even on this [TS]

  one which is basically the new macbook [TS]

  air the previous macbook air used a crap [TS]

  screen to save costs and space and [TS]

  whatever else the macbook escaped today [TS]

  is amazing it is an awesome screen and [TS]

  to have that on what is you know the [TS]

  low-end model even though it's still not [TS]

  a good value but it is in the lineup it [TS]

  is the low end model to have that is [TS]

  really really nice and I'm extremely [TS]

  happy I can't I can't overstate how [TS]

  happy I am right now with this purchase [TS]

  even other Wi-Fi doesn't always work [TS]

  apparently so as someone who is [TS]

  considering getting a macbook one which [TS]

  as far as i know is a macbook adorable [TS]

  right somebody put in the Shoney's [TS]

  macbook [TS]

  versatile dress that after you okay you [TS]

  will get you freaking me out here [TS]

  because I always use them [TS]

  interchangeably and I got nervous that I [TS]

  had misunderstood so anyway so as [TS]

  someone who's considering a macbook [TS]

  adorable / macbook one what remind me [TS]

  again what it was that brought you to [TS]

  this instead of a macbook one obviously [TS]

  power but what else was it it was when I [TS]

  when I put them both side by side in the [TS]

  apple store on the table and I played [TS]

  with them for a while I went on a [TS]

  weekday were nobody was there but when I [TS]

  when I had some time with both side by [TS]

  side and also thinking back to when I [TS]

  did briefly by a 12-inch MacBook one [TS]

  basically the the main difference to me [TS]

  is just the way they feel the ergonomics [TS]

  of using them that the the 12 inch size [TS]

  is really small and in certain ways that [TS]

  actually makes it less comfortable for [TS]

  me at least and again your mileage may [TS]

  vary but for me the general operation of [TS]

  it like where to place your hands [TS]

  opening and closing it all these things [TS]

  like it was pleasant and at how small [TS]

  and light it was but when you actually [TS]

  when it came time to act like you know [TS]

  put it down open it up use it type on it [TS]

  put it in your lap I found the 13 inch [TS]

  size worked better for me and was more [TS]

  comfortable I also found a dramatic [TS]

  difference in the trackpad click it was [TS]

  that's a huge if you put a side-by-side [TS]

  do it in a store put them side-by-side [TS]

  the trackpad difference is extremely [TS]

  noticeable and there is still a keyboard [TS]

  difference as well I don't know how long [TS]

  the keyboard difference will be there [TS]

  I'm assuming that the next macbook 12 [TS]

  inch update will will bring the keyboard [TS]

  parity there but right now there's still [TS]

  a keyboard difference and and it's not a [TS]

  massive difference but the 13-inch is [TS]

  just better and so in in in all those [TS]

  ways you know the the physical [TS]

  ergonomics 13-inch is you know fifty [TS]

  percent heavier like it is noticeable [TS]

  how much heavier it is then the 12 inch [TS]

  but it's still a really small it's it's [TS]

  a 13-inch MacBook Air you know in weight [TS]

  it's still a really thin and light [TS]

  computer it is still really compact it [TS]

  it does perform better but I don't think [TS]

  the performance difference is that big [TS]

  it does have two USB seaports instead of [TS]

  one [TS]

  that's still not a lot but two is better [TS]

  than one that and that there is there [TS]

  going to be situations in which I'm [TS]

  gonna be really happy I have that second [TS]

  port and I and that having the one would [TS]

  have been a pain I do think the screen [TS]

  is higher quality I have not lived up to [TS]

  see if anything backs us up or if this [TS]

  is just placebo but I think the screen [TS]

  is higher quality than 13 the end in [TS]

  various like size classes of things we [TS]

  use you can look at the ipad line for [TS]

  instance and the reaction for most [TS]

  people myself included is that when we [TS]

  picked up that 12-inch 12-point ipad pro [TS]

  when you're using it as a laptop that's [TS]

  cool but when you when you have to like [TS]

  pick it up and hold your hand as an ipad [TS]

  that's a little bit too big for most [TS]

  people similarly when you pick up the [TS]

  ipad mini that's fine for a lot of [TS]

  people but but for a lot of people [TS]

  that's like you know this is a little [TS]

  small i like something a little bigger [TS]

  and it turns out that 9.7 is a really [TS]

  good size for a device that you use and [TS]

  hold and carry like an ipad similarly [TS]

  with phones you see like a lot of people [TS]

  like they're really big ones but most [TS]

  people stick with the medium sized ones [TS]

  and the small ones are still very well [TS]

  liked and so it seems like around the [TS]

  size of the 4.7 inch iphone is probably [TS]

  like the ideal size right now for phones [TS]

  for most people and i think if you can [TS]

  look at laptops and you see kind of a [TS]

  similar thing is like all these things [TS]

  all these perceptions of what's an ideal [TS]

  size are general ated to like how big [TS]

  are average people and how we know how [TS]

  do you hold things how what do you carry [TS]

  how do you carry it how do your hand how [TS]

  are your hands shaped and where do they [TS]

  go right and i think in the world of [TS]

  laptops we had bigger ones in the past [TS]

  we had like a 17 action that was that [TS]

  was a massive aircraft carrier it was [TS]

  awesome when you want when you were [TS]

  using that giant screen but it was [TS]

  really unwieldy to carry around and use [TS]

  so that was kind of deemed by the market [TS]

  and eventually by Apple you know what [TS]

  that's that's too big and the 15 is now [TS]

  the high-end and I think in the world of [TS]

  laptops i would say 13-inch is really [TS]

  the sweet spot of like this is the best [TS]

  size for most people and I think sales [TS]

  back that up because in the last you [TS]

  know however many years then [TS]

  that the macbook air has been a thing I [TS]

  would guess the 13-inch macbook air was [TS]

  apples number one selling computer for a [TS]

  very long time it might still be because [TS]

  education buys a ton of them third the [TS]

  13-inch macbook air is an amazing [TS]

  balance of size portability cost even [TS]

  but you know just talking about physical [TS]

  stuff only for a minute that's it's it's [TS]

  a really great balance and this is just [TS]

  the sequel to that right the the macbook [TS]

  1 / adorable / 12 inch it is smaller and [TS]

  lighter and if if your number one goal [TS]

  is to be able to carry this with as [TS]

  little weight as possible or like [TS]

  underscores people to like actually wear [TS]

  one in your jacket which is amazing like [TS]

  if if your number one goal is get it as [TS]

  small as possible then yeah go for that [TS]

  one but if instead you're looking for [TS]

  more of like a an all-arounder the best [TS]

  laptop in general for most people most [TS]

  of the time or the one that's most [TS]

  comfortable to use most of the time I [TS]

  would say the 13 inches the better [TS]

  balance of that I would also say that [TS]

  the screen size on a 13-inch is great [TS]

  and that I'm I don't want a smaller [TS]

  screen in this hmm fair enough all right [TS]

  well I appreciate it I still feel like I [TS]

  want me a macbook adorable but [TS]

  everything you just said makes perfect [TS]

  sense them it's just I think because I [TS]

  want to basically have a ipad that you [TS]

  can actually do things on hi Mike that's [TS]

  why I want the adorable oh you're going [TS]

  to hear about that I'm going to pay for [TS]

  that later we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  audible but an unmatched selection of [TS]

  audiobooks original audio shows news [TS]

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  at slash ATP if you want to [TS]

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  books are great for long flights long [TS]

  road trips or even your daily commute [TS]

  because you know what you might think [TS]

  you don't have a lot of time to read [TS]

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  how many audio books you can you can [TS]

  hear if you just put them in these [TS]

  everyday spots at your commute or road [TS]

  trips or doing chores around the house [TS]

  you'd be amazed how much time that adds [TS]

  up to and audio books bring books to [TS]

  life many of them are read by the [TS]

  author's themselves which adds in really [TS]

  extra dimension to the text and you can [TS]

  take risks with audible you could try [TS]

  new authors you could take risks on [TS]

  content because they offer a great [TS]

  listen guarantee so if you start an [TS]

  audiobook and you don't like it you can [TS]

  exchange it for another one for free so [TS]

  see all this yourself when you begin [TS]

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  you will find what you're looking for [TS]

  get a free 30-day trial by signing up at [TS] slash ATP that's [TS]

  slash ATP thanks to audible for [TS]

  sponsoring our show so what is the deal [TS]

  with whoever put in the show notes [TS]

  macbook 1 vs macbook adorable it touched [TS]

  on it before I just wanted to bring it [TS]

  back around some at this is these are [TS]

  two names for the 12-inch MacBook that [TS]

  Apple just calls Mac book that has one [TS]

  USBC port / power plug on the side and [TS]

  another name that it is known by again [TS]

  big the reason people make up these [TS]

  names is not just to be cute but also [TS]

  because we need something to distinguish [TS]

  it because macbook is not you know [TS]

  unique enough is macbook adorable that's [TS]

  a name invented by another podcast where [TS]

  they talk about sneakers and plane [TS]

  crashes as far as I'm not a tech podcast [TS]

  actually by the way I'm pretty sure that [TS]

  was on cortex not hello Internet so that [TS]

  was not the sneakers in plane crash [TS]

  podcast that was the productivity email [TS]

  software podcast that's a stretch email [TS]

  i'll give you email yeah i'm pretty sure [TS]

  she should be great event of that name [TS]

  for for it on cortex right at macbook [TS]

  juan marco invented right on the show [TS]

  yeah all right so and our chat room and [TS]

  i both collaborated on macbook escape [TS]

  yes macbook one vs macbook adorable we [TS]

  are using them both interchangeably on [TS]

  the show and i was thinking about it [TS]

  about which day if we should settle on a [TS]

  name or what's going to happen there and [TS]

  unfortunately i think [TS]

  I think / hope that macbook adorable is [TS]

  going to have more longevity not [TS]

  necessarily because it's a better name [TS]

  but because as soon as they add a second [TS]

  USBC port to the 12 inch macbook macbook [TS]

  one doesn't have doesn't doesn't make [TS]

  sense anymore in fact it becomes [TS]

  undistinguished because we would meet [TS]

  we're going to have to call it macbook [TS]

  two or something and then that's kind of [TS]

  confusing but whereas adorable if it's [TS]

  still very small it is still adorable [TS]

  macbook adorable last until they come up [TS]

  with a new macbook that is entirely [TS]

  different form factors as thin as a [TS]

  sheet of paper and then it probably [TS]

  comes up with a new name so it seems to [TS]

  me that in the long run macbook adorable [TS]

  will stand triumphant over the again the [TS]

  corpse of that uh of that laptop line [TS]

  when that day comes well i mean and also [TS]

  like it I've even stopped saying that [TS]

  book one most of the time because NAT [TS]

  like it the reason I started saying that [TS]

  name in the first place was similar to [TS]

  my reason now for having for saying [TS]

  macbook escape for this 13-inch because [TS]

  like apples name for it was vague and [TS]

  ambiguous when you would use in [TS]

  conversation and that computer has now [TS]

  been out for over two years so I feel [TS]

  like now we can just say MacBook and [TS]

  most of the time that that will now [TS]

  suffice people will usually know what [TS]

  what we mean now and if not I've been [TS]

  saying 12-inch MacBook which really [TS]

  clarifies it and so I think the need for [TS]

  alternative names for that product has [TS]

  now mostly or entirely past because it's [TS]

  just been long enough the macbook escape [TS]

  I think still needs clever names like [TS]

  that but that will probably expire in [TS]

  like a year as well yeah once i get rid [TS]

  of those darn pesky physical keys but [TS]

  touch bar and everything right oh god oh [TS]

  part of this river now you know the [TS]

  funny thing is I reign myself into using [TS]

  caps lock for escape everywhere and I'm [TS]

  still doing that now you're allowed to [TS]

  you you're still out to do that like and [TS]

  now you can use both now like you know [TS]

  because when you remap Catholic to [TS]

  escape the Escape key still does escape [TS]

  and so I'm able to use both now but caps [TS]

  lock is so much bigger and closer to my [TS]

  pinky so there it is so really you're [TS]

  just biding time until the touch bar [TS]

  makes it to everything you're basically [TS]

  pulling a John yeah like when [TS]

  the touch bar makes it to everything if [TS]

  that if that's going to be a thing we [TS]

  should probably will eventually you know [TS]

  I'm not going to like throw a huge fit [TS]

  over it the main reason i like this [TS]

  computer is that it has the macbook air [TS]

  cpu class and a massive battery in a [TS]

  really really good size and weight [TS]

  package the the 13-inch with touch bar [TS]

  is only different in a few of those [TS]

  factors like it still is the same size [TS]

  and weight I would probably be very [TS]

  happy with that one as well but it has [TS]

  worse battery life and the touch bar has [TS]

  these downsides for me that I don't I [TS]

  don't love so for me that's that's kind [TS]

  of a minor feature difference if there [TS]

  comes a time when I can only get the [TS]

  model I want with a touch bar I'll do it [TS]

  it'll be you know I won't love it but [TS]

  it'll be fine so since we've recorded I [TS]

  believe yeah because it was Monday Apple [TS]

  has open w WWDC lottery the so the way [TS]

  it works is as of two or three years ago [TS]

  now you put your name in a hat and if [TS]

  you are lucky enough to win a lot really [TS]

  big hat really big hat if you're lucky [TS]

  enough to win the lottery you have won [TS]

  the opportunity and you will take that [TS]

  opportunity that's the way it works but [TS]

  you have won the opportunity to give [TS]

  Apple one thousand six hundred dollars [TS]

  of your money and you will get a ticket [TS]

  to WWDC in return so the lottery started [TS]

  this past Monday and it runs I believe [TS]

  until friday afternoon evening something [TS]

  like that and then presumably shortly [TS]

  thereafter they will start telling [TS]

  people whether or not they have made it [TS]

  in first question before we go any [TS]

  further is the obvious question who put [TS]

  their name in the Hat I can tell you [TS]

  that I did I have listened to under the [TS]

  radar so I know your answer Marco but [TS]

  why don't you share with the group [TS]

  please sure I mean under the radar this [TS]

  week I go into detail but the summary of [TS]

  it is that this is the first year since [TS]

  2009 that I am NOT seeking a ticket and [TS]

  that's not because I'm think it's bad or [TS]

  anything it's it's simply because i have [TS]

  found in the last couple years that my [TS]

  my utility of the conference is going [TS]

  down because i've just been to so many [TS]

  down because i've just been to so many [TS]

  it gets a little repetitive after a [TS]

  while if you're like if you're a first [TS]

  timer or if you only been a couple times [TS]

  and you you're still getting a lot out [TS]

  of each time by all means go for it but [TS]

  for me I've just found that I have gone [TS]

  so much and it really is geared [TS]

  significantly towards newcomers because [TS]

  usually about half or more of their [TS]

  attendees are first-timers so if you go [TS]

  every single year it's it starts getting [TS]

  a little bit less necessary for you so [TS]

  this year I've decided to focus instead [TS]

  on the surrounding events i can go into [TS]

  i'm going to the layers conference which [TS]

  i highly recommend and and i'll be [TS]

  around stuff like that but I'm I decided [TS]

  this year to forgo the official [TS]

  conference but I will be out there and I [TS]

  hope to see all of you there as well [TS]

  John I put my name in the ring again I [TS]

  really like the BWC still I would also [TS]

  like to go to layers I'm not sure if I [TS]

  could swing both of them obviously I [TS]

  can't be physically in two places at [TS]

  once but it's also you know an added [TS]

  expense to pay for both of them let me [TS]

  tell you as somebody who did that you [TS]

  can't like yeah I just can't I mean the [TS]

  only the advantages that layers is only [TS]

  I think the first three days or two days [TS]

  and so you could at least go to WTC for [TS]

  the last two or three days but I did [TS]

  that two years ago and it was it was a [TS]

  huge waste it was a it was a huge waste [TS]

  of both passes really I felt bad that I [TS]

  like I had to miss like half of layers [TS]

  and a good chunk of everybody sees you [TS]

  could try to try to go to things from [TS]

  both so i would not recommend doing wdc [TS]

  with another conference but if you don't [TS]

  get a ticket to that or if you'd rather [TS]

  would not go to that I do recommend [TS]

  layers as an alternative conference yeah [TS]

  so if I don't get a ticket to WC I will [TS]

  probably try to get a ticket two layers [TS]

  just so I have some reason to actually [TS]

  travel out there and don't get yelled at [TS]

  pay you to for not coming wait so you're [TS]

  gonna come oh I was I'm so happy right [TS]

  now John this is the best oh I never [TS]

  thought you'd come this is great neither [TS]

  yeah me neither if I know would come if [TS]

  I got layers if I don't get take us to [TS]

  anything then we're back to [TS]

  maybe not so much that be somebody's [TS]

  like text or ringtone but anyway now [TS]

  that's fantastic news I assumed that if [TS]

  you did not get a WOD DC ticket that [TS]

  that was that the the story is over then [TS]

  we will not be seeing you this year but [TS]

  that's fantastic if I just come for a [TS]

  layer as I could I would probably also [TS]

  not be there for the same amount of time [TS]

  because layers is only three days so [TS]

  basically I come back earlier and that [TS]

  would read hopefully reduce the expenses [TS]

  of everything all around you know so if [TS]

  you weren't there you wouldn't get a [TS]

  chance to see this year's version of my [TS]

  podcast recording setup because it [TS]

  changes every year dramatically so man [TS]

  that's funny good have lav mics is here [TS]

  that what's happening I was actually [TS]

  thinking about headsets I'm looking I'm [TS]

  doing some research so like are there [TS]

  any headset that sound decent because [TS]

  that would allow me to pack a lot less [TS]

  stuff overall yeah oh my word turns out [TS]

  microphone stands are massive in your [TS]

  suitcase i had to pay the overweight [TS]

  limit on my on my check bag last year [TS]

  just fold like microphone stands and [TS]

  stuff so yeah trying to try to reduce [TS]

  that a little bit this year we'll see so [TS]

  i did put my name in the Hat and i [TS]

  cannot agree more that layers is [TS]

  unbelievably good we know at least one [TS]

  of the women that run it Jesse char [TS]

  works with us and she is fantastic and [TS]

  amazing and the conference [TS]

  unsurprisingly is fantastic and amazing [TS]

  layers is if you've ever been to another [TS]

  tech conference before you will [TS]

  immediately recognize that layers is a [TS]

  conference designed and run by people [TS]

  who have been to a lot of other tech [TS]

  conferences and have put a ton of [TS]

  thought and consideration and effort [TS]

  into fixing and addressing the things [TS]

  that everyone actually wants and needs [TS]

  when they go to a tech conference and so [TS]

  you go there and there's like you know [TS]

  it's it's a really nice schedule it's [TS]

  not like to pack the talks aren't too [TS]

  long there's lots of socialization time [TS]

  between things there's amazing snacks [TS]

  and coffee right there in the room and [TS]

  hot chocolate yeah there's like and [TS]

  there's like there's like advil if [TS]

  case you like drank too much the night [TS]

  before or whatever like it's like it's [TS]

  they really they think of everything [TS]

  that you want out of a tech conference [TS]

  even if you don't realize that because [TS]

  they did think about it they did realize [TS]

  it and they plan or it's just awesome so [TS]

  I I wrote a review of layers shortly [TS]

  after I left last year and and i'll put [TS]

  the link in the show notes but it begins [TS]

  as follows layers is the fantasy [TS]

  conference we all wish existed but are [TS]

  too scared or preoccupied or wimpy to [TS]

  put together and I stand by that a year [TS]

  later at layers is really fantastic it [TS]

  is not an also-ran to WWDC it is it is [TS]

  equally as good so definitely check that [TS]

  out if you can I highly recommend it and [TS]

  Jesse Jesse is really awesome so yeah [TS]

  that that that is a genuine and honest [TS]

  quasi advertisement from all of us [TS]

  because we really like it that much we [TS]

  respond to this week by betterment [TS]

  investing made better go to better mint [TS]

  com / ATP to learn more betterment is a [TS]

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  betterment calm / ATP that's betterment [TS]

  calm / ATP betterment investing made [TS]

  better ah [TS]

  anyway um there are some interesting [TS]

  changes to wdc this year other than the [TS]

  obvious relocation to San Jose which I [TS]

  keep calling San Diego and conversation [TS]

  because my youngest brother lives in San [TS]

  Diego and i keep getting confused Sam [TS]

  right yeah it's totally like next to [TS]

  each other so if I do that later just [TS]

  just like John said the other day it [TS]

  just fill in what I meant but anyway [TS]

  there there like last year Apple is to [TS]

  some degree i don't know if i should go [TS]

  so far as to say embracing but perhaps [TS]

  acknowledging that there are other [TS]

  things that are happening at the same [TS]

  time so on the WWDC site there's a page [TS]

  called beyond WWDC and the header there [TS]

  reads in addition to Apple's Worldwide [TS]

  Developer Developers Conference a [TS]

  variety of other exciting developer [TS]

  events will take place throughout the [TS]

  week in San Jose and they mention among [TS]

  other things layers alt conf which I've [TS]

  never actually gone to but I've heard [TS]

  very good things about this year Coco [TS]

  conf which I've gone to a couple of them [TS]

  they're doing what they're calling Coco [TS]

  conf next door which is I guess either [TS]

  literally or figuratively next door to [TS]

  WTC it looks like it is literally next [TS]

  door to WTC there's beard vas talk show [TS]

  with john gruber and james Dempsey in [TS]

  the break points which gets a special [TS]

  call out because that's a benefit [TS]

  concert for AB camp for limit of that a [TS]

  benefit concert for app camp for girls [TS]

  which is a organization that is near and [TS]

  dear to our hearts so you should [TS]

  definitely check that out if you happen [TS]

  to be in town and that's I think that's [TS]

  really cool that Apple is really [TS]

  starting to again if not embrace at [TS]

  least acknowledge that there are other [TS]

  things going on at the same time I know [TS]

  what happened last year but I'm happy to [TS]

  see it back this year additionally there [TS]

  has been a couple of really fascinating [TS]

  brand new changes to the WTC site which [TS]

  I am genuinely really excited about the [TS]

  first is something that we all got [TS]

  really really crotchety about last year [TS]

  and I think deservedly so there's a code [TS]

  of conduct it is quite short but as [TS]

  someone who is not a good reader of [TS]

  these things it seems to come for most [TS]

  basis I say with little conviction but [TS]

  it it looked fine to me [TS]

  I don't know do you guys have any [TS]

  thoughts on the code of conduct it's [TS]

  typical apple writing like get right to [TS]

  the point cover all the bases don't like [TS]

  is the longer you make it in the more [TS]

  complicated it is the more it seems like [TS]

  it's some kind of weird legalese it's [TS]

  apple trying to cover its but versus [TS]

  what it's supposed to be which is a [TS]

  thing that expresses the expectations of [TS]

  guests of you know if you come to this [TS]

  here's how you're expected to behave if [TS]

  if you're here and people don't comply [TS]

  with this then you know and everybody [TS]

  knows is explicitly against the rules [TS]

  and here's what you do about it right [TS]

  and so that's that's what people are [TS]

  asking for and like they did resistance [TS]

  the code of conducts was always kind of [TS]

  you know essentially organizations as [TS]

  personified by whoever you want to put [TS]

  as the head of the organization getting [TS]

  defensive like what are you trying to [TS]

  say like everybody's nice at our things [TS]

  right why do we have to have a code of [TS]

  conduct they don't do anything anyway [TS]

  bad people just going to do bad things [TS]

  well I have laws people will just break [TS]

  them and you know just goes around 30 [TS]

  psychologies just look if you everyone [TS]

  agrees that there's an expectation of [TS]

  behavior just write it down and then [TS]

  write down what to do if something [TS]

  happens that against the thing that you [TS]

  all think we agree on right and then [TS]

  actually follow through with it and if [TS]

  something does happen and someone does [TS]

  report it then you will actually then [TS]

  you will actually go and remedy the [TS]

  situation rather than trying to sweep it [TS]

  under the carpet that part can't be in [TS]

  the code of conduct but it is the is the [TS]

  presumption assuming that we think apple [TS]

  is you know really be honest and i think [TS]

  they are behind it i think last year [TS]

  they were just caught unaware by this [TS]

  and probably like lawyers had to get [TS]

  involved and so on and so forth they [TS]

  just had to get on the same page with [TS]

  everybody else like this is a thing that [TS]

  you should have it is the baseline for [TS]

  any kind of conference and now apples on [TS]

  the same page with the rest of the [TS]

  civilized world saying you know here's [TS]

  our code of conduct it is [TS]

  straightforward it is the thing that we [TS]

  all think we all agree that we all [TS]

  believe in but now we've written it down [TS]

  yep so I'm really happy to see that [TS]

  there because there would have been held [TS]

  to pay and deservedly so had they [TS]

  ignored it for this year yeah it's kind [TS]

  of amazing they didn't already have one [TS]

  in previous years honestly but it is [TS]

  good to see now like I said I think it's [TS]

  because like just the kind of agreement [TS]

  of like look everything's fine we're all [TS]

  friends here everyone's cool like like [TS]

  there was there was already a code of [TS]

  conduct not [TS]

  written down implicit because if you [TS]

  came to wwc and start acting like a [TS]

  hooligan in a way that was visible to [TS]

  everybody you would get kicked out an [TS]

  apple would point to some legally that [TS]

  says look we have reserved the right to [TS]

  kick you out whatever the hell we want [TS]

  and here's where you're being disruptive [TS]

  but in all the other cases of people [TS]

  doing things that are not externally [TS]

  visible people having a bad time because [TS]

  if someone else's behavior and I'm going [TS]

  to complain about and be like well I [TS]

  didn't see it so it's nothing I could do [TS]

  and they didn't cause a disruption so we [TS]

  can't kick them out just like that's the [TS]

  point where you need to say look these [TS]

  things are going to happen we have to [TS]

  have a policy about it founded in [TS]

  something not just to let it be not just [TS]

  let it fall to whoever happens to be [TS]

  there to take the complaint at the time [TS]

  have something in writing on the front [TS]

  page of the things this is how it's [TS]

  supposed to work so if something does go [TS]

  down you could say look this is in [TS]

  violation of you know you that everyone [TS]

  understands and everyone agrees both the [TS]

  people who could potentially perpetrate [TS]

  these kind of things and the people who [TS]

  are victims of them feel like that Apple [TS]

  is behind that like they're their head [TS]

  writing down what they say is supposed [TS]

  to be rather than just saying I bet [TS]

  we're all nice and everything will be [TS]

  fine and we'll just get along right [TS]

  that's that's not a that's not a [TS]

  workable system in this day and age [TS]

  certainly not and not to turn this into [TS]

  the layers love lounge but the layers [TS]

  code of conduct has emoji everywhere [TS]

  which mean which immediately means I'm [TS]

  paying very close attention to it so [TS]

  here again layers knows what's up the [TS]

  other thing that uh that is really [TS]

  exciting about the WEC changes for this [TS]

  year is they are offering child care and [TS]

  the entire passage reads as follows [TS]

  group child care will be available free [TS]

  of charge for children eight years old [TS]

  or younger and will be provided by [TS]

  corporate kids make sure to include your [TS]

  need for child care during ticket [TS]

  registration as space is limited that is [TS]

  super awesome it's super awesome even [TS]

  for somebody like me I don't think I'm [TS]

  going to take them up on this and [TS]

  certainly I didn't like enroll on it it [TS]

  will enroll in it when I put my name in [TS]

  the ring but if hypothetically we wanted [TS]

  to the three of us Erin and Declan and [TS]

  myself go out to San Francisco for the [TS]

  week and Aaron wanted to have five [TS]

  minutes to herself at any point I could [TS]

  bring Declan to wdc and have him play [TS]

  with all the other kids and Aaron could [TS]

  go sightsee and I could learn and [TS]

  everyone is [TS]

  happy and so even for somebody like us [TS]

  this is awesome imagine how freaking [TS]

  amazing this is for somebody who say a [TS]

  single parent or perhaps just a [TS]

  caregiver for whatever reason like [TS]

  there's a million in seven different [TS]

  ways why this is amazing and I'm I was [TS]

  not expecting this I was expecting a [TS]

  code of conduct I was not expecting this [TS]

  and this is awesome so I applaud Apple [TS]

  for both of these moves I think they're [TS]

  there perhaps overdue but still I'm [TS]

  really really stoked about both of them [TS]

  yep agreed and we don't pay a lot of [TS]

  money for these tickets like they you [TS]

  know six hundred dollars per person you [TS]

  do the math and Apple has to decide how [TS]

  to allocate that money obviously they [TS]

  pay for the space and they pay for you [TS]

  know safety and security and they pay to [TS]

  set up all the stuff in there and like [TS]

  honestly I don't know if they really is [TS]

  a profit center or not I imagine it [TS]

  would have to at least break even or [TS]

  something but who knows but either way [TS]

  they have to decide how to allocate [TS]

  their money and in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things like when you're trying to decide [TS]

  what will make but we'll make our [TS]

  conference better so you can like layers [TS]

  like it you know conference made by [TS]

  people who've been to a bunch of other [TS]

  conferences and it found like these are [TS]

  the things that are no I mean these are [TS]

  things that I wish existed this is one [TS]

  of those things that can can [TS]

  fundamentally change the experience of [TS]

  the conference or just make it feasible [TS]

  for for a whole set of people and if you [TS]

  have to trade that versus some of [TS]

  casey's beloved Ottawa like that's it [TS]

  that's a reasonable price is lots of [TS]

  lots of other places where you could [TS]

  spend this money right let's like that [TS]

  too aggressive John let's like take my [TS]

  ad wala oh yeah bring back strawberry [TS]

  sea monster it's all I ask a lot of [TS]

  people like you're allergic to bananas [TS]

  right on yeah those strawberries well [TS]

  yeah so have some variety hahaha on have [TS]

  every flavor have banana in it there is [TS]

  they make one that doesn't it's very [TS]

  popular and they used to have it until I [TS]

  two years ago the struggle is real that [TS]

  type of thing is actually surprisingly [TS]

  expensive and especially since like [TS]

  space is limited Roberta offering this [TS]

  as a service as an amenity as a thing [TS]

  that comes as part of your sixteen [TS]

  hundred dollars I am sure the people who [TS]

  are taking advantage of it would gladly [TS]

  trade for a bunch of extra danishes that [TS]

  just go stale because nobody eats them [TS]

  or whatever you know like the the costs [TS]

  the cost of a thing like this are [TS]

  surprisingly high even for something as [TS]

  like you know this the silly stale [TS]

  danishes you eat of you know exactly how [TS]

  much each one of those costs and the [TS]

  grand scheme of things once we had [TS]

  well the secret to the stale danishes is [TS]

  that every year there is one type of [TS]

  Danish that they serve in the breakfast [TS]

  platter that actually is really good so [TS]

  it's kind of a sport to find out like [TS]

  you know to find out the one good one [TS]

  every year like see how can you find it [TS]

  out by Tuesday morning then you can have [TS]

  great breakfast rest of the week they're [TS]

  all pretty good and the ones with the [TS]

  fruit jam in the middle I'd say that [TS]

  pretty good I blueberries like pineapple [TS]

  apple all those are good give those all [TS]

  thumbs up you can basically live on [TS]

  those of you if you try real hard see [TS]

  now now I'm regretting not getting a [TS]

  ticket this year because I'm gonna miss [TS]

  the all this Dale danishes and kids [TS]

  they're gonna be new steel teenagers [TS]

  because they're gonna it's going to be a [TS]

  different venue I'll give you a [TS]

  play-by-play of the terrible box lunches [TS]

  that's one place where they do where [TS]

  they don't put the money no not at [TS]

  sixteen hundred dollars is not going [TS]

  butch not I'm all for because there are [TS]

  plenty of other good places where you [TS]

  can get food for a reasonable price [TS]

  around there but there are not places [TS]

  where you can drop off your child and [TS]

  you know have them be close to you for a [TS]

  reason of a lot of money during ww see [TS]

  so this is this is a wise allocation of [TS]

  resources is exactly the type of thing [TS]

  that can make the conference again not [TS]

  just like a more pleasant experience for [TS]

  some people but just like just plain [TS]

  possible for people who previously [TS]

  couldn't even entertain the idea of [TS]

  going exactly yeah yeah this is super [TS]

  great night and I said it before but [TS]

  I'll say it one more time I'm super [TS]

  excited that that these are the moves [TS]

  that Apple's making din a year where I [TS]

  think the three of us have had a couple [TS]

  of complaints this is a hundred percent [TS]

  this is uttered percent I can't say two [TS]

  thumbs up because I'm only one person we [TS]

  got scolded about that once but I will [TS]

  give a single thumb up because that's [TS]

  all I'm permitted to do don't allow that [TS]

  scalding you have two thumbs who's got [TS]

  two thumbs this guy so anyway yeah I'm [TS]

  really stoked about this and I and I am [TS]

  I am hopefully gonna see John there and [TS]

  then I'll be jealous of what Marco says [TS]

  it layers or maybe I'll be with mark [TS]

  what layers who even knows but we'll [TS]

  figure it out one way or the other but I [TS]

  am I am already trying not to get my [TS]

  hopes up for the Big John siracusa hug [TS]

  that I always forget how tall you are [TS]

  and that I have to reach up and get on [TS]

  my tippy [TS]

  to give you a proper hug and i'm already [TS]

  looking forward to that awkward moment [TS]

  get ready John I'm coming for you my [TS]

  body is ready i love you i love you so [TS]

  much judge thank you sir oh my god [TS]

  that's amazing thanks to our three [TS]

  sponsors this hahaha betterment audible [TS]

  and back please and we will see you next [TS]

  week now the show is over they didn't [TS]

  even mean to begin cuz it was accidental [TS]

  oh it was accidental John didn't do any [TS]

  research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

  cuz it was accidentally it was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes at ATP FM and if you're into [TS]

  twitter you can follow them at cas eyl [TS]

  ISS so that's Casey list and a RC o a RM [TS]

  Angie Marco Arment as I are they see us [TS]

  a Syracuse [TS]

  so I'm trying somebody asked for a [TS]

  picture the box lunches in the chat and [TS]

  I am the kind of moron that sexual don't [TS]

  do them justice well they are not [TS]

  terribly tasty but I think you're over [TS]

  blowing how I am they are but I'm going [TS]

  to put this in the notes it's for next [TS]

  week I there I need to go into detail [TS]

  about what what really goes wrong with [TS]

  these lunches not today but I'll do you [TS]

  want to just do that now no because [TS]

  we're going to talk about Zelda so I'm [TS]

  not cutting into my zelda time hey hey [TS]

  level hello don't want to cut into [TS]

  yourself the time John yeah he wanted me [TS]

  to expound on wwc lunches but I'm saving [TS]

  it for next week oh that's good yeah [TS]

  Zelda times better yeah that's probably [TS]

  I do have tons of pictures of food from [TS]

  the beer bash coincidentally but I have [TS]

  yet to find one of the box lunches this [TS]

  is going to bother me and anyway hi TIFF [TS]

  how are you hi how are you guys I'm [TS]

  doing well oh I see a picture of odwalla [TS]

  all right I'll keep myself under control [TS]

  anyway uh tell me about Zelda and how [TS]

  much I should regret not having picked [TS]

  up a switch alright so far Zelda's [TS]

  excellent as John said it is I don't [TS]

  know if you would like it Casey because [TS]

  I'm not quite sure you like huge epic [TS]

  sandbox games where you pick through [TS]

  things and find stuff and walk around [TS]

  and gather and fight here and there so [TS]

  quick background I did play through the [TS]

  entirety of ocarina of time which is not [TS]

  exactly the same but I loved that game [TS]

  and okay so I played about five to ten [TS]

  minutes of breath of the wild on my [TS]

  sister-in-law's switch and then I played [TS]

  another five or ten minutes on my [TS]

  friends switch and my friends and [TS]

  neighbors switch so i've got probably a [TS]

  sum total of fifteen minutes of play [TS]

  time on this game and from what I [TS]

  experienced in the brief window of time [TS]

  I did like it the reason I haven't [TS]

  bought myself a switch other than being [TS]

  cheap is because i fear that i would [TS]

  either play through Zelda and then [TS]

  decide okay well that's enough or I will [TS]

  Gail play through some of Zelda and then [TS]

  just give up on it [TS]

  two tips points i'm not really sure how [TS]

  I would feel about this but and the [TS]

  brief one no time I played it I really [TS]

  liked it have you ever played fable no [TS]

  never even heard of it you've never [TS]

  heard a favor anyway it's a lot like [TS]

  fable right John don't you think don't [TS]

  you feel the fable ii vibe going on I [TS]

  feel so much fable I never played fable [TS]

  but I'm aware of the game and I know it [TS]

  I know what it's like those xboxs my [TS]

  podcast it's on a Microsoft console so [TS]

  John would not have any of that yeah but [TS]

  it's fable by me but I know I know about [TS]

  fable but but yeah like it it is a for [TS]

  Casey's taste like ocarina of time is [TS]

  definitely much more linear and follows [TS]

  a formula and it's a good formula but [TS]

  breath of the wild is not that breadth [TS]

  of the while definitely brings in the [TS]

  big sandbox and people know the [TS]

  terminology when you say a sandbox game [TS]

  it's the idea that instead of having [TS]

  like it keep hard to talk about that [TS]

  making references to get it to other [TS]

  games like uncharted or whatever but [TS]

  instead of having an expected series of [TS]

  steps like you're going to do this then [TS]

  you're going to do that then you're [TS]

  going to do that and this is how you're [TS]

  going to play through the game to the [TS]

  ending of the game may be multiple [TS]

  endings or whatever instead it provides [TS]

  you like a sandbox like in a playground [TS]

  road it's just this big square and it's [TS]

  got sand and toys and trucks in it and [TS]

  you can do you know that and there is [TS]

  like a story to be had in solves but a [TS]

  lot of the game is just playing in the [TS]

  sandbox I'm going to make a little [TS]

  castle over here I'm going to drive my [TS]

  truck over there and it is what you make [TS]

  of it and that type of game can be like [TS]

  you know I don't get it what's the point [TS]

  what am I even supposed to do this is [TS]

  boring if you're not into sandbox type [TS]

  games or if you just try to play [TS]

  linearly like I'm confused about where [TS]

  to go and this game doesn't seem to have [TS]

  much stuff in it i played through the [TS]

  storage real quickly but if you like [TS]

  sandbox games and you like collecting [TS]

  things and you like picking up new items [TS]

  and finding new places to go and doing [TS]

  stuff this elder is amazing because it [TS]

  has a lot of the same traditional zelda [TS]

  elements of the overarching story and [TS]

  all the things you can do but unlike so [TS]

  many past games it's not like go here do [TS]

  this dungeon get the boomerang which you [TS]

  will need to finish this dungeon the [TS]

  next dungeon you get this item do that [TS]

  like that it doesn't do that at all you [TS]

  can go wherever the hell you want [TS]

  including running to the final battle as [TS]

  soon as you get out of the first level [TS]

  tutorial area and getting your butt [TS]

  kicked because you can't beat it at that [TS]

  point to just like spending the entire [TS]

  game like i wonder how many people will [TS]

  play breath of the wild [TS]

  and literally never finish the main [TS]

  story because just playing the rest of [TS]

  the game is more fun just slowly [TS]

  methodically exploring the sandbox [TS]

  exploring the map collecting things [TS]

  getting new outfits catching new horses [TS]

  just that can entertain you for such an [TS]

  incredible period of time and so I love [TS]

  both those type of things and this is a [TS]

  great hybrid game for me I'm really [TS]

  enjoying it both aspects of the story [TS]

  part and the sandbox part so you should [TS]

  totally play fable because the dynamics [TS]

  and everything in in this game in new [TS]

  zelda is exactly like fable it's like [TS]

  you're not constantly searching out like [TS]

  in old Zelda's I skipped a couple so [TS]

  correct me if it changed but you kind of [TS]

  you find one weapon and then you slowly [TS]

  upgrade it throughout the course of the [TS]

  game like oh then you find the next [TS]

  weapon and there's like six weapons [TS]

  right like or six main swords that [TS]

  you're searching for and here it's more [TS]

  of like you get a sword and use it for a [TS]

  while and then it breaks and then you [TS]

  find another sword use it for a while [TS]

  and then it breaks and so there's no [TS]

  like oh now I have to search for the [TS]

  master sword and get all these things in [TS]

  order to get the master sword it doesn't [TS]

  seem like that kind of thing it's so [TS]

  much it's so like fable there's little [TS]

  people walking around that you can trade [TS]

  with and get a pet dog if you want wolf [TS]

  but same thing yeah well that's in fable [TS]

  2 like everything that's what I'm saying [TS]

  I know it's so family it's crazy family [TS]

  wait you can get dogs and Zelda well [TS]

  well well but but a dog I accidentally [TS]

  ran over a fox just recently oh and it [TS]

  was so sad it turned into Edom he turns [TS]

  into food it turned into meat but I ran [TS]

  over it with my horse so it was an [TS]

  accident yeah how far I don't want to [TS]

  spoil things at how far are you a game [TS]

  um I'm talking to the old wise lady and [TS]

  running some errands for her Oh as you [TS]

  do any major story elements that you [TS]

  have progressed that you think would be [TS]

  markers towards completion I don't want [TS]

  to again I want to spoil I'm up to like [TS]

  the silly camera dynamic alright um and [TS]

  how much of the map have you unlocked [TS]

  percentage-wise um haven't unlocked much [TS]

  it's not showing me a lot but I've been [TS]

  one [TS]

  ring all over the place and about how [TS]

  many towers basically oh I don't know [TS]

  maybe like 11 or 12 11 towers though I [TS]

  mean they really tall things that when [TS]

  you may be a portion of the map none of [TS]

  those yet I've only been played for like [TS]

  two days yeah zero I mean you obviously [TS]

  you've done the first one right you got [TS]

  off the great plateau yes yes and then [TS]

  after they get off the grape out on you [TS]

  go to that tower and reveals the first [TS]

  section of the map so that's one tower [TS]

  right there the very very tall ones that [TS]

  you have to climb up right yeah I [TS]

  haven't done those yet I didn't even try [TS]

  climbing them the one that's lit the [TS]

  ones that are lit up yeah all right vol [TS]

  we already saw something all right you [TS]

  are you are very few are not far into [TS]

  this game at all and I think you're the [TS]

  type of person who may get lost in just [TS]

  like you know finding items and I just [TS]

  been doing the little temples and [TS]

  finding chickens like yeah I'm busy I'm [TS]

  busy finding horses I want to make sure [TS]

  I got a teal one with dots on its butt [TS]

  as very specific horses the horses i [TS]

  find a little freshing and speaking of [TS]

  the wolf pets that's one thing that [TS]

  annoys you about this wolf bed i'm very [TS]

  excited about this part because i just [TS]

  keep running over a five step 1 don't [TS]

  run him over yeah well I'm sorry it was [TS]

  an accident I felt really bad because [TS]

  the foxes are super cute as long as you [TS]

  eat them use every part of the Fox I did [TS]

  I did ding ding ding ding ding ding so [TS]

  one monitoring that the Nintendo has [TS]

  been using recently that's very [TS]

  frustrating is they want you to buy [TS]

  their little meebo plastic toys and then [TS]

  the little plastic toys because they [TS]

  have a little NFC thing on them that you [TS]

  hold up to the controller or whatever I [TS]

  yes I know unlock stuff in the game [TS]

  which annoys me because that's an [TS]

  additional thing you have to buy but as [TS]

  someone who's willing to spend lots of [TS]

  money on games whatever what really [TS]

  annoys me is you can't buy them because [TS]

  nobody has them unless you want to go on [TS]

  ebay it's like Nintendo make more of [TS]

  this plastic crap so I can buy it I'm [TS]

  ready to give you an unseemly amount of [TS]

  money for a meebo plastic toys just so I [TS]

  can take the little NFC thing and pop it [TS]

  on my controller and get the in-game [TS]

  items of the gift because they give some [TS]

  good items in this game now I have the [TS]

  amoeba from like the special edition win [TS]

  waker HD version gave you the wolf link [TS]

  amiibo and if you use the wolf link [TS]

  amiibo you get the wolf companion in [TS]

  this game he just appears oh yeah I'm [TS]

  gonna need mark on [TS]

  need that yeah Marco if you find an [TS]

  amigo connection let me know too because [TS]

  I've been trying to buy these you should [TS]

  you just go online you can see this [TS]

  meebo gives you this this amoeba gives [TS]

  you that so just get the amigos they [TS]

  give you the things that you want I was [TS]

  gonna be so into that Adams gonna be [TS]

  crazy he was really he wants to play he [TS]

  wants to play a lot like he wants to [TS]

  walk around link and he was telling [TS]

  Marco how to play someone needs to it [TS]

  was kind of incredible yeah he was he [TS]

  was he he wanted to teach me how to play [TS]

  the game and so I walk over he's like [TS]

  alright that stick you move that that [TS]

  one you move and this one you look like [TS]

  he already figured out like the the dual [TS]

  analog stick movement and looking thing [TS]

  that is you know standard all [TS]

  first-person games most adults can't [TS]

  figure that out for a while and he's [TS]

  four and he was explaining it to me as [TS]

  if I didn't know it's pretty great the [TS]

  thing about the wolf link amiibo thing [TS]

  is that depending on how well you do did [TS]

  in a portion of the wind waker HD game [TS]

  it that influences what kind of health [TS]

  your wolf has when you instantiate him [TS]

  in breadth of the wat which is kind of [TS]

  fun a nice connection between those two [TS]

  games you get a default amount if you [TS]

  haven't played the previous one but yeah [TS]

  the amigo angle is a little bit annoying [TS]

  you don't need them to finish the game [TS]

  or anything but I watched some of the [TS]

  items they give not the wolf but I want [TS]

  some other things than die I can't find [TS]

  the Emmy bows in stores or online [TS]

  anywhere except for for ridiculous [TS]

  prices on ebay so that is frustrating [TS]

  but so no way that hold on so you're [TS]

  what you just said is that the the state [TS]

  of a like an npc in the prior zelda is [TS]

  carried over into the zelda one of your [TS]

  achievements is a particular dungeon [TS]

  that you do and when you complete a [TS]

  certain section of the dungeon how many [TS]

  hearts you have list translates to how [TS]

  many hearts the wolf link has when you [TS]

  instantiate him in the new game it's [TS]

  it's just like a little NFC tap pad [TS]

  thingy it's not it's not super high-tech [TS]

  so like if we've never heard of these [TS]

  things never there anything do we get [TS]

  like like a slow emotionally damaged [TS]

  wolf or like did we get like she got one [TS]

  everything the same about him he will [TS]

  probably just have a little bit less [TS]

  health than mine or maybe a lot less but [TS]

  either way like if he dies you can I [TS]

  think he has I cool down and here you [TS]

  just reinstate I mean honestly not that [TS]

  particularly useful because like any [TS]

  sort of npc fighting aid type of thing [TS]

  it's you know it helps a little bit but [TS]

  then you a lot of time you just been [TS]

  wearing around same thing with the [TS]

  horses by the way horses I'm worried I [TS]

  don't want to spoil things for you [TS]

  anyway i was worried i had some problems [TS]

  with my horse campaigns as well so i'm [TS]

  mostly a loner out there well what was [TS]

  your problem I don't want to spoil [TS]

  anything for you just play the games got [TS]

  0 although I've been feeling factory [TS]

  I've been feeling super bad oh poor [TS]

  horses I'm feeling super bad about [TS]

  breaking things in the village even [TS]

  though I know it's part of the game to [TS]

  like fine yeah no you got it was [TS]

  tradition you gotta break those pots you [TS]

  see you see pots you they need to be [TS]

  broke no but I feel really bad because [TS]

  now it feels like so personal because [TS]

  they're like they're like people they're [TS]

  walking around and maybe like kind of [TS]

  talk to you more one of them might have [TS]

  money in it I mean it could happen no I [TS]

  just I feel I feel really guilty now [TS]

  about like taking fruit out of shrines [TS]

  and I just I can't I feel like really [TS]

  guilty about this game like are you [TS]

  really saving this kingdom I don't know [TS]

  but I'm feeling like it's a mix between [TS]

  like fable and I'm worried about going [TS]

  to the bad side and like I just I have [TS]

  all these panics like in heaven but it's [TS]

  revenge of its revenge of the old [TS]

  mechanics because like in past Elda's i [TS]

  was i was the the scourge of grass [TS]

  everywhere asthma every player was [TS]

  played at know if everyone has ever been [TS]

  that you see grass it must be cut you [TS]

  know why because sometimes when you cut [TS]

  grass money pops out or hearts but [TS]

  mostly money and so then you're like [TS]

  grass must cut it and what is this game [TS]

  2 gives you gigantic fields of grass and [TS]

  weapons that we're down when you cut [TS]

  with them and you're like must cut grass [TS]

  but must not cut grass and there's some [TS]

  pottery must break pots but but but no [TS]

  don't break pots because it will wear [TS]

  what if i pick up the pottery and throw [TS]

  it but then the people will be angry at [TS]

  me and the game has lots of in-game [TS]

  texted teases you about previous zelda [TS]

  games mechanics when you do one of the [TS]

  things from it's a lot of fun at least [TS]

  they kept those cute little leaf dudes [TS]

  i'm super happy about that Oh total [TS]

  Roxanne yeah they're cool I'm liking [TS]

  that I see a lot of the older game [TS]

  creature it's kind of in this world also [TS]

  and like the ones from winwaker right [TS]

  you know they're all over the place the [TS]

  same kind of demon D things and yeah [TS]

  winwaker winwaker his win week I don't [TS]

  know what's a call my cares though the [TS]

  boat one yeah yeah you've got you have [TS]

  the [TS]

  dr. rocks you know I yeah back to the [TS]

  first game yep you have those yeah [TS]

  they're so good the main thing that I'm [TS]

  enjoying about this game and it's not [TS]

  just the sandbox it's lots of games our [TS]

  sandbox see but so this is not I mean [TS]

  because you know grand theft auto or [TS]

  whatever is a sandbox game right but [TS]

  this is like the title is appropriate [TS]

  breath of the wild the main sort of [TS]

  theme of this game and it's embodied in [TS]

  both the mechanics and in you know the [TS]

  the sandbox nature of it is that you are [TS]

  out in the wild and so it's not it's not [TS]

  an entirely man versus nature but [TS]

  there's a lot of that from the very [TS]

  beginning of the game just getting hot [TS]

  and getting cold but in general just [TS]

  like wanting to see what's over the next [TS]

  rise and wanting to see you know the [TS]

  sense of exploration like what's going [TS]

  to be over there or what could that be [TS]

  or whatever and there's a couple people [TS]

  pointed out in discussions on Twitter so [TS]

  many sandboxie games like even things [TS]

  like very popular games like oblivion or [TS]

  the Elder Scrolls series and stuff like [TS]

  that there were sandbox games with huge [TS]

  world's very detailed all sorts of stuff [TS]

  you'd see something I wonder what's over [TS]

  that peak that looks like a little [TS]

  interesting value over there and you'd [TS]

  spend your time making this long trek to [TS]

  this distant peak which is cool you can [TS]

  do in a sandbox game if you can see it [TS]

  you can go there and you were just go [TS]

  and work your way there and there's [TS]

  random encounters with enemies and you [TS]

  go through some villages and you take a [TS]

  break and get some food or whatever you [TS]

  finally make that is what you think this [TS]

  really cool little nook or waterfall and [TS]

  there is nothing there like it is just [TS]

  some more textures in scenery and the [TS]

  thing that breath of the wild does so [TS]

  well is that even though it is a huge [TS]

  world is obviously a huge world that [TS]

  humans have carefully constructed so [TS]

  that if something looks tempting or [TS]

  interesting when you get there they will [TS]

  be something they're not the world's [TS]

  greatest thing but some reason for you [TS]

  to have a ride there some reward for [TS]

  getting there and that the most [TS]

  interesting things are in areas that [TS]

  look interesting that will lure you [TS]

  toward them and it makes you feel like [TS]

  I'm a genius for finding this thing here [TS]

  it's like no you're not they made it [TS]

  look cool and inviting they made say I [TS]

  wonder what that is often this is that [TS]

  looks kinda interesting or there's like [TS]

  a little twinkle or or that looks like [TS]

  it would be a neat little cove or have a [TS]

  nice little tree or just looks like [TS]

  maybe we're sensing that like there are [TS]

  certain sections of it that are more [TS]

  massage by human hands and others but [TS]

  the idea of like it it just continued [TS]

  hasn't come on it continues to amaze me [TS]

  that like even [TS]

  when Aerys are mapped out you look on [TS]

  the map and they give areas names like [TS]

  little regions names and you're like [TS]

  that's an interesting name or they put a [TS]

  little thing on the map like a little [TS]

  drawing in the map like that looks cool [TS]

  and you go there and like recently I had [TS]

  a big ordeal getting to a particular [TS]

  section on the map and I'm playing with [TS]

  my son he's like dad you know it was [TS]

  very difficult to get there and we were [TS]

  using a lot of our food and was like [TS]

  just why are we even going here just [TS]

  turn back we're using up all of our food [TS]

  and this is a waste of time and we've [TS]

  been trying to do this like a harrowing [TS]

  journey through you know elemental [TS]

  dangers and random enemies and you know [TS]

  my son is getting bored or whatever I'm [TS]

  like no I really want to get to that [TS]

  part because just because it looked [TS]

  interesting on the map like I didn't [TS]

  actually see it with my own eyeballs and [TS]

  when we got there it was totally worth [TS]

  it and he had to admit like that was a [TS]

  good idea and why did they put this out [TS]

  here in the car of the map but it's [TS]

  SuperDuper hard to get to because the [TS]

  new people would just try to get there [TS]

  to see what that thing is and when they [TS]

  get there they are rewarded and that's [TS]

  that is the number one thing that I love [TS]

  about this game the sense of exploration [TS]

  and adventure and the fact that every [TS]

  time I go exploring her on some you know [TS]

  damn fool crusade as they would say in a [TS]

  movie that Marco and Casey will not [TS]

  remember nope I'm rewarded for that at [TS]

  the end so I envy your your largely [TS]

  unlocked map all the plate all of the [TS]

  places you will go which there you go [TS]

  you remember that one all the places you [TS]

  will go in Zelda still so much to see so [TS]

  much to do so much fun well that's good [TS]

  to know that it's worth it because I've [TS]

  climbed some mountains and it was pretty [TS]

  good up there you know like I blew up [TS]

  some rocks and stuff but I've definitely [TS]

  was able to climb a lot more mountains [TS]

  and I have been in other sandbox games [TS]

  you know usually it's like oh yeah you [TS]

  can climb this mountain but you really [TS]

  can't sorry that's close many big yeah [TS]

  so I'm pretty excited that you can go [TS]

  climb every mountain for it every stream [TS]

  that's right follow every ok everyone ok [TS]

  Maria ok river no no Maria come on [TS]

  someone's gotta be able to sing this [TS]

  nope you know until you find your dream [TS]

  thank you you're welcome I don't even [TS]

  know what song you're thinking of oh my [TS]

  god yes you don't I'm sure I do know it [TS]

  but darned if I could place it based [TS]

  just on the lira see others had remember [TS]

  that if married into this family and [TS]

  it's not she is not genetically doomed [TS]

  to not know anything about pop culture [TS]

  like Marco is I can talk to her on the [TS]

  level of the rest normal people [TS]

  get my references ah that's why we are [TS]

  team strong island John yep oh my god I [TS]

  all right so is there anything else [TS]

  unzell like I'm not trying to shut you [TS]

  guys up I just I have nothing I can [TS]

  contribute to this conversation anymore [TS]

  so it is quite a big epic game as John [TS]

  was just describing and I feel like if [TS]

  you aren't ready to get into that or [TS]

  that doesn't appeal to you than buying a [TS]

  system just for this game probably [TS]

  wouldn't be a great idea oh no I I think [TS]

  if I were to buy a switch I would [TS]

  probably get Zelda because I expect I [TS]

  would like it but really the system [TS]

  would just be a glorified Mario Kart [TS]

  delivery system which is probably [TS]

  preposterous inside my understanding is [TS]

  the whatever version of mario kart that [TS]

  ends up on the switch is not going to be [TS]

  too terribly different than what's on [TS]

  the wii u but you never played the wii u [TS]

  1 so it's all know to you exactly also [TS]

  you know i think some of this comes from [TS]

  me just getting bowled over by seeing in [TS]

  the like switch trailer or whatever you [TS]

  want to call it that came out in like [TS]

  October when they showed and I think was [TS]

  a basketball game that they were showing [TS]

  but they showed like a couple of people [TS]

  playing the same game on one switch [TS]

  which I thought was really clever but [TS]

  even more clever was when they had like [TS]

  a series of switches or switch I or [TS]

  whatever around like in a circle in in [TS]

  in the the implication was that they [TS]

  were all linked together somehow and [TS]

  they're all playing the same game across [TS]

  like six different switches which I just [TS]

  thought looked amazing and so I'm having [TS]

  this vision of like me and my [TS]

  sister-in-law getting are getting the [TS]

  family together and being able to like [TS]

  play mario kart across two different [TS]

  switches against each other with each [TS]

  other what have you and gosh only knows [TS]

  if it'll even be supported but that's [TS]

  the dream man and it just looks awesome [TS]

  I I think your your hesitation on the [TS]

  switch makes sense if the idea of [TS]

  getting into this giant fantasy world [TS]

  game is not massively pushing you to buy [TS]

  it because like you know I bought it [TS]

  because I had I had a good opportunity [TS]

  to and there were a couple games on the [TS]

  road map that I'm that I'm excited about [TS]

  lightning regard also buy everything and [TS]

  that [TS]

  as well but you know I i bought it [TS]

  because you know there were other stuff [TS]

  there's other stuff like mario car on [TS]

  the road map that I want and I bought [TS]

  Zelda thinking that you know everyone [TS]

  says this is an amazing game so maybe I [TS]

  should try it even though I [TS]

  traditionally do not like games like [TS]

  this I mean and your son was Zelda for [TS]

  Halloween I mean I Zelda sorry oh my [TS]

  gosh I did it uh he was like for [TS]

  halloween you're fine you're fine you [TS]

  made the outfit here a lot of one slip [TS]

  yeah oh and uh splatoon splatoon is [TS]

  supposed to be really good I'll never [TS]

  but never ever played that ever ever [TS]

  ever so I I would probably pick that up [TS]

  in my hypothetical world where I have a [TS]

  switch right and so basically if you are [TS]

  like me and if Zelda is not like the [TS]

  massive thing that you absolutely must [TS]

  do because you love games like this then [TS]

  this is not the right time to buy a [TS]

  switch because there's very little else [TS]

  at right now I played that a like fast [TS]

  rmx or something like that it's like [TS]

  it's the wipeout clone it's cool it's [TS]

  it's a decent game it's not amazing it [TS]

  isn't that different from like the the [TS]

  AG drive series on iOS like it's not [TS]

  it's pretty much the same thing but more [TS]

  expensive sent via snipper clips I [TS]

  downloaded the demo I haven't launched [TS]

  it yet but i'll try that next try that [TS]

  you and Adam try that together he'll [TS]

  show you how to play ok button but yeah [TS]

  like I think it seeing Zelda seeing TIFF [TS]

  play it and seeing you know she and I'm [TS]

  enjoy it a lot that's great it's very [TS]

  nice and cute to watch but boy am I glad [TS]

  that I didn't play it because I would be [TS]

  miserable it is so not my kind of game [TS]

  and even though i can even though i can [TS]

  respect how much everyone else seems to [TS]

  say how good it is if you're not into [TS]

  that kind of game i don't i don't think [TS]

  this is going to sway you so all this is [TS]

  to say that i'm sure glad that tiff is [TS]

  playing this thing that I stupidly [TS]

  bought and Casey if you are on the fence [TS]

  about whether as el de is a big driver [TS]

  for you to buy it I'd say you're safe to [TS]

  wait hey John do you have those little [TS]

  puppy stickers and out for the for the [TS]

  controller like it's a little side slide [TS]

  thingies no i do not have the puppy [TS]

  fistic oh oh i don't use that controller [TS]

  i just used the pro control it doesn't [TS]

  matter i put the sticker on it just sits [TS]

  on the table looks super cute it looks [TS]

  like a little messed up [TS]

  puppy its size all jacked up I have an [TS]

  extra if you want it I'm betting he [TS]

  doesn't you do yeah I'm not big on [TS]

  putting stickers on my electronics not [TS]

  sure if you heard no this is like a [TS]

  legit like it's different this is [TS]

  different John different so like one of [TS]

  those static vinyl stickers that doesn't [TS]

  actually leave any sticky stuff and come [TS]

  on it'll be fine just put it on yeah you [TS]

  put stickers on your keyboard though [TS]

  didn't you me no I only have a tiny [TS]

  little sticker no it's it's an overlay [TS]

  for like the photoshop keyboard but it's [TS]

  like a rubber thing you just like pick [TS]

  up and it just traps all the dirt [TS]

  underneath it so when you pick it up [TS]

  it's so horrifying you just put it right [TS]

  back down the dishwasher safe I don't [TS]

  know I don't know that's never been [TS]

  cleaned out enough no we just replace it [TS]

  every three years or so yeah when it [TS]

  starts like deteriorating and ripping [TS]

  from hand oils well oh my god this is [TS]

  getting gross run away yeah I wish Marco [TS]

  you should you should watch TIFF plays [TS]

  even though you're not into playing [TS]

  she's gonna get it up to some she's [TS]

  gonna get up to some business eventually [TS]

  he does we just check out but she gets [TS]

  up to yet falsely while you watch I fall [TS]

  asleep within like the first five [TS]

  minutes maybe baby that needs to involve [TS]

  you more in like went once she has a [TS]

  couple of projects in the works she can [TS]

  explain to you what it is that she's [TS]

  doing you can get into it or at least it [TS]

  you could be a navigator and like decide [TS]

  where you're going to go together and [TS]

  you as a family can travel to far off [TS]

  places you can look for the arrow [TS]

  twinkle no this is the see this is adam [TS]

  plays this role very very well as like [TS]

  the copilot to tiff as she plays i am [TS]

  not good at this I just fall asleep and [TS]

  lose interest although he's getting [TS]

  super useful now because when I have to [TS]

  go to the bathroom I'm like here you [TS]

  drive for a while and he like walks [TS]

  around and picks up some stuff I can't [TS]

  come back and you're in here in the [TS]

  middle of the lake yeah it's mine he got [TS]

  our horse lost for a little Owen would [TS]

  you name your horse horse names are an [TS]

  important thing in this game okay he [TS]

  named the first horse um I can't [TS]

  remember he know he just made it up some [TS]

  word with that starts with an M anyway [TS]

  the horse that i'm driving right now is [TS]

  named our be like that like the [TS]

  restaurant I don't know he thinks that [TS]

  only legitimate words start with a like [TS]

  his name so he picked up haha yeah [TS]

  system work he also thinks that any [TS]

  string of characters that starts with a [TS]

  is a real word yeah yeah well for names [TS]

  that you know that kind of work Oh [TS]

  menina menina I think that that's what [TS]

  he named the first horse but you might [TS]

  have to like alternate naming rights for [TS]

  horses if it's gonna continue like this [TS]

  because you won't be able to keep them [TS]

  straight yeah well I only have three so [TS]

  far the first two we picked up with crap [TS]

  but they're in the stable anyway and the [TS]

  third one's pretty good rrb arbys [TS]

  reliable he's a good horse it's a good [TS]

  horse John cool well thank you tiff for [TS]

  swinging by and dropping some knowledge [TS]

  as usual all right drop with a fierce [TS]

  knowledge on the video games I had to go [TS]

  back to Celtic goodbye [TS]