The Accidental Tech Podcast

211: Hardware Mind Virus


  zeon gold that's really the name of this [TS]

  thing it's pretty I'm pro gold yeah [TS]

  extreme special edition I mean if [TS]

  they're relieved since Kyle AKP I don't [TS]

  care what they call it but that's really [TS]

  a stupid name 18 cars Zeon gold are they [TS]

  gonna make a gold mac pro that would be [TS]

  amazing there could even be an addition [TS]

  that's solid gold John if the next Mac [TS]

  Pro is only available in rose gold at [TS]

  like actual rose gold not like pink [TS]

  aluminum the actual rose gold that would [TS]

  probably raise the price by $15,000 [TS]

  would you buy that mac pro nope can't [TS]

  swing it what if I had a gaming video [TS]

  card in it yeah still no that's cold [TS]

  Marco no $15,000 computers sorry but [TS]

  well I mean at the rate that you replace [TS]

  them that actually isn't that ridiculous [TS]

  like how many cars have you had during [TS]

  the time you've had this mac pro well I [TS]

  got a lot more value out of the cars [TS]

  right so uh we should start with follow [TS]

  up as we always do Tyler la cloak lock [TS]

  has some a PFS boot experiments that he [TS]

  has performed would you like to tell us [TS]

  about that mr. filesystems he was the [TS]

  person who last week tweeted about [TS]

  booting a mac off of a PFS and we talked [TS]

  about it and follow up and one of the [TS]

  points that I made during that segment [TS]

  was that he had posted a screenshot of [TS]

  the gate info window in the finder of [TS]

  the volume that he booted from and it's [TS]

  at a PFS case insensitive and what I [TS]

  thought that meant was that the a BFS on [TS]

  his volume that he booted off was case [TS]

  insensitive and therefore all the weird [TS]

  problems that we discussed about trying [TS]

  to run Mac OS and its application like a [TS]

  sense of how systems wouldn't apply I [TS]

  should have looked a little bit farther [TS]

  down his tweet timeline because [TS]

  apparently he subsequently tweeted that [TS]

  finder and other utilities are confused [TS]

  about whether the volume is case [TS]

  insensitive or not rest assured it is [TS]

  case sensitive so it's kind of weird [TS]

  that the get info window says case [TS]

  insensitive but he tell me no no there's [TS]

  a pas all you ms case sensitive so again [TS]

  he's doing weird stuff on and unreleased [TS]

  you know betta everything so still [TS]

  doesn't tell us what the final [TS]

  incarnation of this is going to be [TS]

  whether it's at a point release of [TS]

  Sierra or whether to the next major [TS]

  version of Mac OS but that's super weird [TS]

  that the finer thinks is case [TS]

  insensitive but knows that it's a PFS [TS]

  but that the actual volume is case [TS]

  sensitive so oh well whew riveting it is [TS]

  is that this is this will be an [TS]

  important even though it seems esoteric [TS]

  as the follow-up we had a couple well [TS]

  last week or whatever but your programs [TS]

  won't work if its case sensitive like or [TS]

  they won't work for some period of time [TS]

  total developers update them it will [TS]

  make you sad so better hope they sort [TS]

  this out fair enough then we have a [TS]

  little bit of talk about the various [TS]

  cesspools in Silicon Valley is that [TS]

  redundant anyway um Tesla apparently is [TS]

  having some problems with harassment [TS]

  surprise surprise there's an article in [TS]

  The Guardian which i haven't had the [TS]

  chance to read what i intend to read [TS]

  tomorrow female engineers sues Tesla [TS]

  describing a culture of quote pervasive [TS]

  harassment quote you don't say [TS]

  technology and car company that's [TS]

  surprising yeah I put that in there just [TS]

  because the not so much about the [TS]

  specific story which this is actually [TS]

  interesting in that it's a current [TS]

  employee suing the company so that's you [TS]

  know another twist in this but just to [TS]

  reinforce the idea that we touched on [TS]

  last week about uber that although overs [TS]

  is surely an extremely egregious example [TS]

  that this problem is not isolated to a [TS]

  single company to a single person to a [TS]

  single bad animal I think it's not even [TS]

  isolated to a single industry although [TS]

  you know in the circles are traveling we [TS]

  tend to see tech things it is everywhere [TS]

  and when one of these stories comes up [TS]

  what it does is it makes the other [TS]

  stories come to the surface you know [TS]

  because it's you know a media trend or [TS]

  people feel more emboldened to come [TS]

  forward or people want to report on it [TS]

  more and they come in cycles but anyway [TS]

  it's everywhere and if you want to see [TS]

  another example there you go yep and [TS]

  then we have an entry in the hidden the [TS]

  show notes to her or not to burr and I [TS]

  presume that this is because a handful [TS]

  of listeners are very very astute [TS]

  listeners called out the fact that one [TS]

  of us very well may have been me had [TS]

  talked about with regard to WWDC flying [TS]

  into like San Francisco [TS]

  rather than San Jose and you know maybe [TS]

  we could just catch an uber to get down [TS]

  to San Jose after flying into San [TS]

  Francisco and and you know a few people [TS]

  had said hey that seems kind of [TS]

  disingenuous after you spent you know a [TS]

  fair bit of time complaining and railing [TS]

  against uber to then immediately say oh [TS]

  yeah I'll totally take an uber after [TS]

  that so it's actually me I thought [TS]

  pretty sure was me too said that it was [TS]

  Marco and he used it as a verb he said [TS]

  like uber up to over down to San Jose [TS]

  yeah and the reason why is because when [TS]

  were we recorded last week we didn't [TS]

  have time for the uber topic during the [TS]

  main show so we did it in the after show [TS]

  during the Edit I decided it was too [TS]

  important to have as an after show topic [TS]

  so i moved it forward in the show and [TS]

  and kind of promoted it like in the Edit [TS]

  to a regular main core show topics I [TS]

  thought it was important enough then you [TS]

  know I probably wouldn't have said that [TS]

  after having a discussion and I just [TS]

  kind of said without even thinking about [TS]

  it you know like at the time as soon as [TS]

  I said it I regretted saying it and [TS]

  because I that is exactly the kind of [TS]

  thing that I'm usually conscious of and [TS]

  it's the kind of thing where like yeah I [TS]

  kinda don't want to take uber anymore [TS]

  after all how horrible they are so [TS]

  anyway I I personally have since deleted [TS]

  uber off my phone there were plenty of [TS]

  previous reasons to do it but this is [TS]

  the big one to do it do it like now and [TS]

  I figure you know I don't actually use [TS]

  it that often because in my in my home [TS]

  city I don't need it but when I'm [TS]

  traveling I would use it often but i [TS]

  think i'm going to install lift now and [TS]

  try that instead because yeah it's it's [TS]

  not worth supporting that if we don't [TS]

  have to yep it's kind of like some [TS]

  people who tweeted at us about this [TS]

  point out like the Kleenex situation [TS]

  where because uber was first and is so [TS]

  famous and so prominent that you know 20 [TS]

  birotte is like even though you are [TS]

  saying the word uber which is the name [TS]

  of a company it's just the generic term [TS]

  for a thing that makes a car come and [TS]

  get you because you tap stuff on your [TS]

  phone right yeah and so you could Boober [TS]

  for one place yellow with lift or [TS]

  whatever but anyway either way the [TS]

  larger question is given all this stuff [TS]

  are we gonna continue to use Hoover and [TS]

  you know I think all of us in our places [TS]

  where we actually live never have any [TS]

  for a service like uber at all so it's [TS]

  not really relevant only really over [TS]

  when we're traveling and there have been [TS]

  a lot of people deleting him off the [TS]

  phone and or otherwise vowing to never [TS]

  use it one of the interesting things I [TS]

  read about the people who drive gruber [TS]

  is that very often the drivers are [TS]

  working for multiple ones of these [TS]

  companies at the same time yeah so if [TS]

  you call for a lift or you call for an [TS]

  uber it could be the same person and [TS]

  starting to change what app is up on [TS]

  their phone which is interesting so it's [TS]

  not as if the purse the car the person [TS]

  you get is actually dependent on the [TS]

  company and lift like every other [TS]

  company I'm sure has its own fair share [TS]

  of problems and you know or people [TS]

  putting on the chat room problems [TS]

  dealing with down to the application [TS]

  itself you know always putting location [TS]

  on oh no this is the opposite that [TS]

  complaining the new burrow with has [TS]

  location anyway I recall reading lots of [TS]

  scary things about lift as well and that [TS]

  very often they were presented as the [TS]

  better alternative doober merely because [TS]

  it were is so incredibly terrible that [TS]

  the bar is low in some respects it's a [TS]

  little bit like airlines that we talked [TS]

  about before where we all know angry [TS]

  travelers maybe we have been this Angry [TS]

  traveler who has a bad experience with [TS]

  an airline and vows to never fly in them [TS]

  again and if you travel at all [TS]

  frequently you will eventually have that [TS]

  same experience with every airline and [TS]

  then you will literally be unable to fly [TS]

  because that because all airlines do [TS]

  something that is enough to anger people [TS]

  is that that's it I'm never flying delta [TS]

  again and they stick to it and they [TS]

  never fly delta again if you if you do [TS]

  that for five years of constant [TS]

  traveling you will be out of airlines [TS]

  and I wonder if ride-sharing services [TS]

  especially when subsidized by VC money [TS]

  that are basically trying to put taxi [TS]

  companies out of business so they can [TS]

  you know dance on their their grave and [TS]

  then raise their prices like I wonder if [TS]

  there are any good ride sharing company [TS]

  then it's not as if taxi services are [TS]

  all that great either every every one of [TS]

  these things seems to have some kind of [TS]

  problem so you know I'm certainly what [TS]

  I've heard I heard somebody say recently [TS]

  was the [TS]

  I'll still use uber but I'll hate myself [TS]

  every time I do it I don't know if [TS]

  that's the solution is a solution [TS]

  deleting nubra what if you use lift and [TS]

  you find out all sorts of horrible [TS]

  things but left eventually you can you [TS]

  not use any ride-sharing services it's [TS]

  hard to know what to do in these type of [TS]

  situations I think it is very similar to [TS]

  an a-line type situation but when there [TS]

  are alternatives obviously if you have [TS]

  any kind of choice at all and you think [TS]

  you really do think Hoover is the worst [TS]

  of the worst like don't pick them pick [TS]

  another company right and I guess you [TS]

  just keep doing that until you're out of [TS]

  ride-sharing company right hiring [TS]

  company what are they called it's not [TS]

  ride sharing what do you call a thing [TS]

  like uber I don't know private taxis but [TS]

  it's not a car service I don't know [TS]

  whatever it but like like you know [TS]

  usually this argument of like well [TS]

  they're all probably terrible when we [TS]

  might we just might not know how [TS]

  terrible the other ones are because [TS]

  they're like less in the public eye or [TS]

  we do know but it was like the two news [TS]

  cycles ago right especially and like I [TS]

  talked about previously with like you [TS]

  know how i buy things from amazon even [TS]

  though i know that in many ways amazon [TS]

  as a retail company is kind of horrible [TS]

  but i've worked another retail company [TS]

  before just enough to know that they're [TS]

  all pretty horrible and retail is just [TS]

  horrible business and so you know like [TS]

  the the smaller ones like what are we [TS]

  gonna do like oh I'm not gonna buy this [TS]

  thing at amazon I'm gonna buy it at [TS]

  walmart know like you know we're also [TS]

  making it like maybe i'll go to some you [TS]

  go to target well they're probably [TS]

  horrible and some other way to like it [TS]

  because retail is a horrible business [TS]

  and all the incentives kind of force [TS]

  everyone in it to be pretty horrible or [TS]

  to go out of business and so i decided [TS]

  like it's worth it to me to shop at [TS]

  amazon because it's just so much better [TS]

  than everything else and and their [TS]

  offenses aren't bad enough to to offend [TS]

  me enough to overcome you know the [TS]

  difference between them and anybody else [TS]

  in in morality versus the incredible [TS]

  convenience that they offer with uber [TS]

  though i think it's a little bit of a [TS]

  different situation because you know [TS]

  first of all uber in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things is pretty young and so it's hard [TS]

  for anybody to to look at what uber [TS]

  gives them in their life and say i can't [TS]

  i can't be without that because like [TS]

  will you were with that that like what [TS]

  five years ago like it wasn't it wasn't [TS]

  that long ago like chances are five [TS]

  years ago you weren't using anything [TS]

  like that and you still lived you still [TS]

  got around you still find a way to make [TS]

  that work how did you do that right like [TS]

  could you just go back to that how bad [TS]

  would it really be you know even if [TS]

  there is no other ride hailing companies [TS]

  like lift right like even if you can't [TS]

  get any other ones in area if it were [TS]

  the only one that serves your area how [TS]

  bad would it be not to use them and in [TS]

  some cases it actually is really bad [TS]

  like in some cases if your alternative [TS]

  is like well I can get an uber in 10 [TS]

  minutes or because of where I am like if [TS]

  you're like you know in the in like know [TS]

  where Brooklyn and no cab will pick you [TS]

  up out there believe me I've been there [TS]

  this is before I used uber and you have [TS]

  to wait like literally you have to wait [TS]

  an hour and a half from midnight to 130 [TS]

  am on a pier in Brooklyn because there's [TS]

  no cabs around you had to call a car [TS]

  service and that's the soon as they can [TS]

  come get you in that kind of case okay [TS]

  if we virtually the only thing that will [TS]

  serve you I can't really follow you for [TS]

  using it however most of the time for [TS]

  most people if Hoover serves you at all [TS]

  other options probably due to whether [TS]

  it's your regular taxi service or other [TS]

  car hailing services or mass transit or [TS]

  other like you know private you know car [TS]

  service and stuff like that like chances [TS]

  are if you use uber at all you probably [TS]

  have other options and they might be a [TS]

  little bit less convenient you might [TS]

  have to wait one or two extra minutes [TS]

  for a ride where you have to pay a [TS]

  dollar more but you have to decide for [TS]

  yourself if that's worth you know the [TS]

  the the moral say things are not and for [TS]

  me I think it's worth it yeah those up [TS]

  was that other one I heard about called [TS]

  fasten like fasten your seatbelts I [TS]

  guess another one that's at the very [TS]

  least in the the Pacific Northwest I [TS]

  heard a bunch of people talking about so [TS]

  it's not just uber and lyft there are [TS]

  probably other options maybe not all [TS]

  elimination wide so i guess check the [TS]

  app store and ask around to see what the [TS]

  other options are in your area you too [TS]

  can live an uber free lifestyle [TS]

  hopefully though and I mean it's easy [TS]

  for the three of us to say because we're [TS]

  white dudes but you know I've understood [TS]

  that in some ways it can be better if [TS]

  you're you know like a minority or if [TS]

  you're a woman that maybe maybe it's [TS]

  it's better for some reason to be to [TS]

  call an uber or perhaps a lift well [TS]

  maybe not an over there's a lot but a [TS]

  lot of horror stories about women [TS]

  getting picked up by overs okay maybe [TS]

  women with support [TS]

  Paul but you know maybe if you're a [TS]

  person of color or something like that [TS]

  you know maybe a taxi cab would would [TS]

  not take your fair where an uber or [TS]

  perhaps a lift would you know it's I [TS]

  guess what I'm driving at is it's all [TS]

  nuanced right ever it it's just a [TS]

  balancing act and you do what works best [TS]

  for you but I plan to before I go to San [TS]

  Jose which I think I'm going to be doing [TS]

  I plan to look into lift and understand [TS]

  if there's any differences in procedure [TS]

  or like you know tipping paradigms or [TS]

  anything like that I plan to try to [TS]

  understand what that is before I go so [TS]

  this way I can use left rather than uber [TS]

  and I should mention that um front of [TS]

  the show G McDonald who in the past has [TS]

  run or been deeply involved with a I [TS]

  guess she is still deeply involved with [TS]

  that camp for girls which is an [TS]

  organization that's near and dear to all [TS]

  of our hearts anyway she just for fun [TS]

  decided to drive I thought and I'm [TS]

  pretty sure I have this right for both [TS]

  uber and lyft and then ended up not [TS]

  doing it for uber anymore because she [TS]

  had some really bad experiences and I [TS]

  don't have her tweets handy where she [TS]

  talked about this unfortunately but you [TS]

  can look at um you can look at her [TS]

  timeline or just ask her about it and [TS]

  she'll tell you that that she drives for [TS]

  lift from time to time because she's [TS]

  just felt better about it I wish I could [TS]

  form i remember what was better but she [TS]

  seemed to think that the lift was a [TS]

  better experience for drivers and [TS]

  probably for writers to the pink [TS]

  mustaches right I mean here's the thing [TS]

  to like it's kind of hard to be worse [TS]

  than over like literally everything they [TS]

  do is horrible with the exception that [TS]

  they are kind of everywhere now but like [TS]

  the company is horrible the people at [TS]

  the top leading the company are horrible [TS]

  the app is horrible insult like the app [TS]

  itself is its own incredible case study [TS]

  of horrendous abusive fraudulent app [TS]

  design like it's it does so many creepy [TS]

  immoral things that that honestly should [TS]

  be or might even our might might be [TS]

  prohibited on iOS it's it's just a [TS]

  terrible app in front of a terrible [TS]

  service run by some really horrible [TS]

  people in again like in most cases if [TS]

  most the time if you're deciding between [TS]

  big crappy companies like airlines are [TS]

  doors I think the differences are [TS]

  usually smaller between them but in this [TS]

  case like my god is uber horrible like [TS]

  it would be really impressive for any [TS]

  other company in this business to be as [TS]

  horrible as they are well that's what [TS]

  the competition is for so here's one [TS]

  article from class next thing saying [TS]

  uber is quietly terrible for women and [TS]

  black people study says so there's an [TS]

  article on that so so much for being [TS]

  better for minorities or women and then [TS]

  another article saying a new business [TS]

  model same racist cab drivers that just [TS]

  talks about both uber and lyft and [TS]

  making it harder for people with black [TS]

  sounding names to get rides so like as [TS]

  with so many of these things are trying [TS]

  episode it's not it's not a problem with [TS]

  a particular company or particular made [TS]

  it's a problem it's a cultural societal [TS]

  problem because all these companies are [TS]

  made up of people who come from this [TS]

  culture and the society grant it very [TS]

  often they are the worst people but you [TS]

  know like the CEO of uber who was caught [TS]

  on video arguing as one of his drivers [TS]

  but just just boggles my mind there [TS]

  maybe he was drunk you don't have the [TS]

  self-awareness to understand that I [TS]

  don't even know if you can't if you [TS]

  can't be if you are the CEO of a company [TS]

  and you can't manage to be respectful [TS]

  magnanimous 45 minutes to one of your [TS]

  employees who's angry like it did bottle [TS]

  her on that you could be this bad at [TS]

  everything having to do with you anyway [TS]

  yeah so if you you know if you want [TS]

  peace fight for justice as they say I [TS]

  see if you want to solve the problem you [TS]

  really have to solve it of the brute [TS]

  you're not going to solve it by scolding [TS]

  spoiled tech CEOs but if you can at all [TS]

  if you could it all avoid giving money [TS]

  to what really seems to be the worst of [TS]

  the very worst of a business that is [TS]

  already in a slightly precarious [TS]

  situation in terms of you know all the [TS]

  articles going around about the the fact [TS]

  that goober is not profitable and is [TS]

  basically being funded by a venture [TS]

  capital to put tax companies out of [TS]

  business and if they ever succeeded in [TS]

  that they would just raise their prices [TS]

  and by the way they exploit their [TS]

  workers and that's this half of what [TS]

  these the argument with the CEO was [TS]

  about a thing I used to get paid X [TS]

  amount now I get paid so much less and [TS]

  the uber seeing I was saying he's just [TS]

  waiting to replace all these drivers [TS]

  with self-driving cars [TS]

  anyway and their self driving cars [TS]

  running through red lights and then who [TS]

  were lying about it oh it's a mess so [TS]

  bottom line is stay in your house and [TS]

  never go anywhere that is definitely the [TS]

  judge Siracusa answer to this problem [TS]

  yeah you wish that was the answer solves [TS]

  a lot of problems doesn't it it solves [TS]

  your problems yeah I don't think I've [TS]

  ever actually taken an uber on my on my [TS]

  account my wife has an account though we [TS]

  used it when i was in san francisco and [TS]

  i gotta tell you it was convenient i [TS]

  mean at my experience my personal [TS]

  experience with uber has really been [TS]

  very good truth be told i've never had a [TS]

  bad experience and it's always going [TS]

  pretty well for me but like i said [TS]

  earlier you know i i'm not comfortable [TS]

  with with the way the company as a whole [TS]

  and certainly the CEO seems to do [TS]

  business and that doesn't mean that [TS]

  they're that there's nothing but mean [TS]

  terrible people it over but certainly [TS]

  the people that are running the show [TS]

  seemed to be pretty consistently mean [TS]

  and terrible so because of that i intend [TS]

  to like i said try out life next time [TS]

  i'm out there yeah and that that's the [TS]

  best of it like every time i've ever [TS]

  been in an uber or even a taxi for that [TS]

  matter like the people who are actually [TS]

  driving like the leaf nodes of the org [TS]

  chart I've had good experiences now [TS]

  obviously that's not universal and again [TS]

  all the article you just listed about [TS]

  them refusing to pick up people black [TS]

  sounding names and picking up women and [TS]

  driving them around longer than they [TS]

  should be driving them and hitting on [TS]

  them and doing all sorts of terrible [TS]

  things like obviously that happens but [TS]

  it's kind of like when when you get mad [TS]

  a delta and vow that you love or fly [TS]

  with them again does I mean every [TS]

  employee of delta is an evil person [TS]

  certainly not and so it's a complicated [TS]

  thing we're like you're trying to punish [TS]

  the company and by withholding your [TS]

  business but what about the people who [TS]

  work for the company all they could just [TS]

  quit to work for a better airline can [TS]

  they what if they work in Atlanta and [TS]

  it's Delta's hub I don't know it's the [TS]

  whole the effectiveness and the sort of [TS]

  ethics of boycotts have always been [TS]

  complicated when it's not like a black [TS]

  and white kind of you know pervasive [TS]

  issue like you know segregation or you [TS]

  know bus boycotts and stuff like that [TS]

  this is slightly more nuanced but I [TS]

  think if there's something you can do [TS]

  that's straight forward like marketer [TS]

  said just you know call cab use a [TS]

  different company it's so easy to do you [TS]

  should just do it we are sponsored this [TS]

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  all need websites the thing is if you [TS]

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  installing a CMS managing the [TS]

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  website there's so much complexity you [TS]

  don't have to do and doing things in [TS]

  Squarespace is so incredibly easy and [TS]

  fast those are at a free trial site [TS]

  there with next time you need to make a [TS]

  website for anything whether it's for [TS]

  you or for somebody else go spend a half [TS]

  hour making it at square space so they [TS]

  give you a free trial no credit card [TS]

  required spend a half hour see how far [TS]

  you get see how easy it is I bet you're [TS]

  going to be so impressed after that that [TS]

  you're going to just finish it up in [TS]

  probably another 15 20 minutes it's [TS]

  really fast I'm telling you and then [TS]

  you're done and if the sites for you you [TS]

  could move on to do whatever it is you [TS]

  made the site for if the sets for [TS]

  somebody else if they have any problems [TS]

  with it Squarespace supports it so you [TS]

  don't have to see you're out of the loop [TS]

  either way you win because you aren't [TS]

  dealing with a website anymore [TS]

  Squarespace makes it so easy to make [TS]

  such a great looking website that you [TS]

  don't have to worry about it yourself [TS]

  make your next move at Squarespace go to [TS]

  squarespace com and when you sign up and [TS]

  to offer code ATP to get ten percent off [TS]

  once again start your free trial site at [TS]

  squarespace com and use code ATP to get [TS]

  ten percent off your first purchase [TS]

  thanks a lot to Squarespace make your [TS]

  next move with squarespace [TS]

  so Marco you had a big day today as we [TS]

  record on Wednesday as per usual [TS]

  overcast ads are available for purchase [TS]

  from anyone that has an overcast account [TS]

  and that's exciting and in what is what [TS]

  surprised me but really shouldn't have [TS]

  surprised me you have a really neat [TS]

  little table here that's that's [TS]

  presumably all integrated with your ad [TS]

  back-end that shows availability and [TS]

  prices and some analytics sort of kind [TS]

  of some estimated analytics and it's all [TS]

  much more mature that I would have [TS]

  expected the way you painted it when [TS]

  we've talked both on the show in [TS]

  privately I don't know I just got this [TS]

  impression that this was a little bit I [TS]

  don't know grab-ass but as it turns out [TS]

  this is this is legit this is the real [TS]

  deal and you've clearly put a whole lot [TS]

  of orbit this is grab-ass plus CSS [TS]

  chaser but anyway but this is super [TS]

  exciting you've already had a few [TS]

  categories sell out so how's things [TS]

  going i mean it certainly looks from the [TS]

  outside like it's going really well i [TS]

  mean so far it's going great like and [TS]

  you know this is not an indication of [TS]

  how it's going to be going long term [TS]

  because no one including me and the [TS]

  people buying the ads has any idea like [TS]

  what is a podcast ad worth because mote [TS]

  you know there are some of the some of [TS]

  these ads are for websites or apps but [TS]

  most of them by far most of them are for [TS]

  podcasts and so I really and as I by the [TS]

  way I love that that ratio like I do [TS]

  want the ability to advertise for for [TS]

  both types of things but I also would [TS]

  prefer if most of the ads were podcast [TS]

  as I'm actually considered having having [TS]

  actually be two separate inventory types [TS]

  so it would actually sell separate slots [TS]

  possibly at different prices like maybe [TS]

  pocket podcast ads would be cheaper than [TS]

  website ads and I just that was too much [TS]

  complexity so I just didn't build it out [TS]

  and I might do it later but probably not [TS]

  you know basically it's kind of cool [TS]

  that in a podcast app I can now have ads [TS]

  for other podcasts because it makes it [TS]

  kind of not feel like an ad anymore and [TS]

  I've like this is one of the reasons why [TS]

  I added the option for paying [TS]

  subscribers who normally just [TS]

  automatically wouldn't see any ads i [TS]

  added a setting in in [TS]

  settings for them a check box for them [TS]

  to trim the ads on you know if for [TS]

  everyone else it just is on and they [TS]

  can't turn it off but for paying people [TS]

  one of the benefits normally that you're [TS]

  paying for is not to see ads but these [TS]

  ads are kind of nice it like it turned [TS]

  out really well and there and so far [TS]

  they're actually there are like podcast [TS]

  and a good number of them and good [TS]

  quality ones buying the ads I mean I'm [TS]

  literally only about you know four hours [TS]

  or some or so into the ad sales so it's [TS]

  it's very hard for me to really know [TS]

  what this is going to be life long term [TS]

  but in the short term it's really easy [TS]

  it's really nice it's really nice like I [TS]

  built the system it's a pretty [TS]

  straightforward like basic you know [TS]

  database thing with basic tracking in [TS]

  the app of views taps and subscriptions [TS]

  the payment is all through stripe [TS]

  because stripe is amazing i love stripes [TS]

  so much what did we do before strive [TS]

  actually i'll tell you what we did [TS]

  before stripe paypal and it was a dark [TS]

  time oh my we said a dark time i'm gonna [TS]

  tell you about dark times before paypal [TS]

  we had banks of modems that would they [TS]

  would dial the credit card companies and [TS]

  transfer information using archaic [TS]

  protocols from our linux servers phone [TS]

  lines actual phone lines that's how we [TS]

  did credit card processing was that [TS]

  actually worse than paypal i don't know [TS]

  yes have you ever tried to do [TS]

  subscriptions in paypal phone lines and [TS]

  modems are among the least friendly [TS]

  things you ever want to be wrangling at [TS]

  a data center that is not in the same [TS]

  building as you have you ever used [TS]

  paypal i have i mean paypal will [TS]

  eventually freeze your can take all your [TS]

  money but the phone line situation made [TS]

  it so hard to even get money in the [TS]

  first place yeah well anyway so this is [TS]

  all built using some you know nice easy [TS]

  stuff with stripe is the payment gateway [TS]

  i even accept Apple pay which is kind of [TS]

  cool but could they make it really easy [TS]

  so I literally like you know you put in [TS]

  a few HTML divs and you enable this [TS]

  thing in your site and then you have [TS]

  Apple pay so you can go to my site and [TS]

  buy an ad with your fingerprint in like [TS]

  three seconds it's kind of awesome it's [TS]

  incredibly satisfying and so yeah that's [TS]

  that's what I've been working on the [TS]

  last week or so is just building the [TS]

  system out and there's still a lot I [TS]

  have to do like basically tomorrow I [TS]

  have to build system to [TS]

  notify people when categories become [TS]

  available that are sold out that's [TS]

  something I kind of added last minute [TS]

  tonight because a bunch of things so [TS]

  that my amelie got a bunch of emails to [TS]

  people saying hey I got here too late my [TS]

  category sold out can you put me up for [TS]

  the next one and honorable I don't [TS]

  really want to give the business of like [TS]

  having to maintain a thousand different [TS]

  relationships with people and eating on [TS]

  them and then what if it sells [TS]

  beforehand then like they're out of luck [TS]

  and I email them so obviously build it [TS]

  very simple like notify me thing I [TS]

  already built the system to record your [TS]

  intention to be notified I just haven't [TS]

  actually made the notifications yet [TS]

  because now I have 30 days to do that [TS]

  because all these ads have their dales [TS]

  that is the most Marco thing supposed [TS]

  Marco comments I've ever heard oh I'd [TS]

  have to worry about that for everyone [TS]

  yeah it's similarly like I want the ad [TS]

  to email the person who bought it when [TS]

  it expires to tell them your ID is [TS]

  expired click here if you want to buy [TS]

  another one and I haven't built that yet [TS]

  either because I have three days to [TS]

  build that too but yeah so for the most [TS]

  part they're the system is pretty much [TS]

  like it's you know three quarters of the [TS]

  way done like all the core stuff is [TS]

  there except in the payments you know my [TS]

  my admin administrator interface to [TS]

  approve or reject and refund them all [TS]

  sorts of you know payment handling [TS]

  things that were actually surprisingly [TS]

  easy because stripe is so good I mean [TS]

  jeez like stripe kind of embarrasses [TS]

  everything else I do like in like every [TS]

  other part of this was more complicated [TS]

  and took more work and more fiddling [TS]

  than the entire payment processing just [TS]

  kind of amazing you would think that [TS]

  would have been the worst because that's [TS]

  arguably the most important since it [TS]

  involves money but no apparently not [TS]

  yeah I so I have some questions so you [TS]

  had made mention that you would this [TS]

  took you like a week so last I heard you [TS]

  had demo ads in the app you know [TS]

  obviously I'm on the beta so I'm seeing [TS]

  these like you know cam dads that well I [TS]

  guess they weren't entirely demo they [TS]

  were kind of like first run ads they [TS]

  were real ads i had just inputted the [TS]

  manually into the database right because [TS]

  there was no interface for people to buy [TS]

  them mhm and so that was running for a [TS]

  little bit and then how long did it take [TS]

  you to do this whole back-end you said [TS]

  about a week yeah about a week well it [TS]

  because like i already had the system in [TS]

  you know between the app and the sync [TS]

  service i already had the system to [TS]

  serve the as to the app have the app [TS]

  show them record their stats and then [TS]

  transmit the stats back on the next sink [TS]

  and so that and then so I had like [TS]

  everything I had basically the whole [TS]

  back end of like serving and tracking [TS]

  the ads so all I had to do was the [TS]

  creation editing and buying of the ads [TS]

  and that's not a small amount of work [TS]

  but in the grand scheme of things is [TS]

  only about half of it so when one goes [TS]

  to buy an ad you you select you know a [TS]

  price and the first thing you're [TS]

  presented with is choosing ad type you [TS]

  can either search for a podcast or you [TS]

  can provide a URL what happens after [TS]

  that like it would I be providing art or [TS]

  blurb or what what what what is [TS]

  customizable here try it you don't have [TS]

  to pay till the very end so I'm not [TS]

  gonna I'm not gonna like send you an [TS]

  invoice it's very much you will know [TS]

  when you're paying it works for me I got [TS]

  a little scared I don't mess with it [TS]

  alright so I have a title description [TS]

  you gotta support arrow keys in return [TS]

  in your autocompletes come on oh my big [TS]

  shirt my podcast search box yeah that's [TS]

  a big custom thing yeah if I hit down [TS]

  our to select and hit return it's like [TS]

  nope I haven't looked at that coaches [TS]

  2014 it might support it easily i'm not [TS]

  sure i'm using this this pure framework [TS]

  which probably doesn't even exist [TS]

  anymore i don't know it like it was the [TS]

  smallest like CSS type framework i could [TS]

  find in 2014 so i put it in but anyway [TS]

  it doesn't really matter it does not oh [TS]

  this is very slick okay so I've put in [TS]

  this is a difference between John and I [TS]

  John is advertising for a podcast [TS]

  presumably one that has other people on [TS]

  it me I put in my own URL anyway Marvin [TS]

  the dog was this frequent test URL don't [TS]

  worry so I have a title description a [TS]

  URL and optional image and then what I [TS]

  really like is you have a little preview [TS]

  right then and there that shows you [TS]

  approximately wanted to look like and [TS]

  then like you said ready when you're [TS]

  ready either Apple pay or pay with card [TS]

  super cool i really like this and so so [TS]

  basically the idea is you are either [TS]

  advertising for a podcast or anything [TS]

  that can relate to the web anything that [TS]

  has a URL yeah so you know apps websites [TS]

  you know and yeah anyway nice any [TS]

  website that's pretty cool and and so [TS]

  the initial take rate seems pretty good [TS]

  from what i can tell i mean you're sold [TS]

  out in a few few different things I [TS]

  there's nothing that has no purchases [TS]

  nope that's lots available oh I'm sorry [TS]

  I misread yeah so health has no [TS]

  purchases but but there are other [TS]

  categories that have all the other [TS]

  categories have at least one fair enough [TS]

  well so you obviously massively [TS]

  underpriced this stuff I actually raised [TS]

  the prices about an hour ago because [TS]

  they sold too fast and i noticed that i [TS]

  know but like it's to it but anyway live [TS]

  and learn there'll be another 30 days I [TS]

  did kind of want this to be a quick sale [TS]

  because one of the big challenges that I [TS]

  that I went is this with is all those [TS]

  categories to say not enough data yet [TS]

  because I just haven't had test ads in [TS]

  those categories and so I really need to [TS]

  know like what categories even get good [TS]

  traffic and then the pricing is kind of [TS]

  a guess like you know business sold out [TS]

  really quickly and I had it in the in [TS]

  the low price category because I didn't [TS]

  think it was as high traffic as the [TS]

  other ones in overcast but now I'll find [TS]

  out if that's true or not if it is true [TS]

  i'm going to move it up to the little to [TS]

  the dark gray section between all and [TS]

  the others that's like the the [TS]

  mid-priced ear and then that's why i [TS]

  should an auction system because the [TS]

  market will decide what's valuable [TS]

  because it's not just the traffic it's [TS]

  like how valuable of the people is in [TS]

  the business podcast maybe they all have [TS]

  lots of money and buy expensive stuff [TS]

  all the time so they're more valuable to [TS]

  advertise to maybe I mean you know i can [TS]

  just the price is obviously individually [TS]

  if I need to but ultimately I would [TS]

  rather have the inventory sell out more [TS]

  often than to extract every possible [TS]

  last dollar out of the highest bidder [TS]

  because I want there to be a lot of ads [TS]

  in the system because that would people [TS]

  see a nice variety in their apps and and [TS]

  it kind of gives more people a chance to [TS]

  advertise in the app so that I would [TS]

  prefer sold out inventory to necessarily [TS]

  the absolute highest price again I have [TS]

  no idea how hard it's going to be to [TS]

  sell these ads in you know six months a [TS]

  year I have no idea it could be really [TS]

  easy this could require very little [TS]

  effort on my part or might have to like [TS]

  actually start like you know keeping [TS]

  this email list like quote reaching out [TS]

  to people and reaching all over them to [TS]

  get them to buy an ad like I don't know [TS]

  like it [TS]

  it's sudden you'll be on to the next [TS]

  business model anyway so it'll be fine [TS]

  that's true it's gonna be hard to beat [TS]

  this like if this keeps going the you [TS]

  know anywhere near what it is now first [TS]

  of all I've made today enough for [TS]

  something like eight months of the [TS]

  google ads wow that's all I don't know [TS]

  if I'm gonna make this every month but [TS]

  it it certainly shows like this was [TS]

  probably the right move and if if if i [TS]

  even get you know a quarter of this i'm [TS]

  happy with that yeah I feel like it's [TS]

  gonna go up I felt next month is going [TS]

  to be higher because you have to raise [TS]

  these prices you just have to and then [TS]

  even if it's slowly tapers off from the [TS]

  course of a few years the only thing [TS]

  that'll make you stop it which is which [TS]

  is a thing that may happen but the only [TS]

  they'll make you stop is if you find it [TS]

  too annoying I guess that is that that [TS]

  is the thing that's going to get this I [TS]

  feel like yeah i mean that's that's [TS]

  certainly the the main limiting factor [TS]

  is like how much of my time will take [TS]

  but the good thing is this is a really [TS]

  easy thing to have someone else help [TS]

  with yeah that's sort of true but right [TS]

  now like I'm doing it myself right now [TS]

  because I don't want to immediately I [TS]

  asked for something like this because I [TS]

  want to know first of all how is it [TS]

  doing and you want to do those two [TS]

  really kind of run it myself so I want [TS]

  to know how it works for everybody all [TS]

  right at the front I want to know what [TS]

  all the needs are hat you know what the [TS]

  what the pain points are so I can fix [TS]

  them and then I need to know like is [TS]

  this even the kind of thing I need to [TS]

  outsource to someone else or is it so [TS]

  little work that I can just do it myself [TS]

  you know if it's sending 50 emails on [TS]

  one day a month that's that's a decent [TS]

  man of work but I could probably do that [TS]

  myself you know so you know we'll see [TS]

  we'll see what elections up being again [TS]

  it's way too early to tell but the very [TS]

  early indication suggests that it's [TS]

  pretty good what's a super awesome now [TS]

  so you're doing all the approving by [TS]

  hand using your little admin interface [TS]

  yep have you had to deny anyone as yet [TS]

  that wasn't clearly just spamming you [TS]

  for the sake of being a jerk no I mean [TS]

  one of the things is you have to pay to [TS]

  even submit it like all right yes like [TS]

  in in like the in crud web app terms it [TS]

  literally doesn't even save the database [TS]

  record until it has a payment the [TS]

  payments all like in you know in like [TS]

  the temporary session post variables [TS]

  until you actually until it's paid so [TS]

  that so that basically makes it [TS]

  spammable from a pure spam perspective [TS]

  it puts ups you know a pretty big [TS]

  barrier that and so and then you know [TS]

  and I am human reviewing the mall to [TS]

  just make sure they're not like obscene [TS]

  or you know hate content or anything [TS]

  else and there was one one person [TS]

  submitted one that had a word that some [TS]

  people might consider a bad word it's [TS]

  not like one of the big ones but it's [TS]

  like a kind of ancillary one so so I [TS]

  went back to that person like hey do you [TS]

  mind if I edit this and we worked out a [TS]

  different copy and then that was it and [TS]

  I approved it so that that was the only [TS]

  the only one that even required any [TS]

  review at all nice and you know what's [TS]

  amazing about this when google sells ads [TS]

  on my behalf i get something like I [TS]

  think sixty percent of it when Apple [TS]

  sells anything on my behalf I get [TS]

  seventy percent of it or maybe a year [TS]

  later for subscriptions if I'm lucky [TS]

  eighty-five percent of it when google [TS]

  pays me money it's money that I earned [TS]

  like you know six weeks ago that i [TS]

  finally got paid for when apple pays me [TS]

  my money it's again similarly about [TS]

  money I earned about six weeks ago with [TS]

  these stripe ads i'm earning i think [TS]

  about ninety seven percent of what they [TS]

  sell for and it gets deposited my bank [TS]

  account in two days that's it's really [TS]

  kind of amazing to be out of the like [TS]

  walled garden ecosystem for once that's [TS]

  super cool so initial reaction things [TS]

  are going great yeah how do you think [TS]

  you're going to play with the pricing [TS]

  for now like are you going to i get i [TS]

  guess it let's suppose you sell out in [TS]

  the next 48 hours there's really no [TS]

  impetus to mess with pricing until the [TS]

  end of the month unless you want to cut [TS]

  down on the people that asked to be [TS]

  notified right i well I guess I mean I [TS]

  mean I probably a good business plan to [TS]

  cut down on the number of interested [TS]

  parties but I guess what I'm saying is [TS]

  there's no there's no reason for you to [TS]

  raise your prices now once you sell out [TS]

  unless you want to prevent people from [TS]

  saying notify me you know let's say the [TS]

  all goes from as we record it's less [TS]

  than a thousand dollars and let's say it [TS]

  becomes 3000 tomorrow all you're really [TS]

  accomplishing since it's sold out is is [TS]

  you're preventing me from being [TS]

  interested because I maybe I would have [TS]

  spent less than a thousand but I'm not [TS]

  going to spend three thousand [TS]

  you know what I mean so yeah you don't [TS]

  really need to mess around with pricing [TS]

  for like 30 days right yeah I mean for [TS]

  the most part like you know unless [TS]

  things are not selling that I might low [TS]

  it right or not selling like that health [TS]

  category but you know for the most part [TS]

  I think I'm gonna treat this the same [TS]

  way I've treated any other kind of thing [TS]

  where I set the price for an ad so our [TS]

  podcast ads you know my website ads when [TS]

  I sold our RSS sponsorships things like [TS]

  that and the way I've done this [TS]

  basically is if they sell out way too [TS]

  fast when I go to sell them every is the [TS]

  price a little bit until things start [TS]

  selling still a reasonable pace like I [TS]

  don't want it to be like pulling teeth [TS]

  to get things sold but slowly enough [TS]

  that it's not like a stampede and then I [TS]

  get 50 angry emails people saying oh I [TS]

  missed my chance to buy like you know [TS]

  that's that's no good either that's also [TS]

  it's not great for business necessarily [TS]

  so i think i'm just going to control the [TS]

  prices slowly and you know maybe maybe [TS]

  when next month rolls around i will you [TS]

  know see how it sells at the new higher [TS]

  price from an hour ago instead of the [TS]

  initial prices which will which are [TS]

  about i think about thirty percent lower [TS]

  you know i'll see how it sells at these [TS]

  new kind of higher prices and if it [TS]

  sells out just as fast then maybe for [TS]

  the month after that then maybe i'll [TS]

  raise it a little bit more but if it's [TS]

  selling out like at a reasonably healthy [TS]

  rate then I'll just leave it the way it [TS]

  is really you really nailed it this [TS]

  looks great thanks so let's assume this [TS]

  is super successful for a year just for [TS]

  the sake of discussion are you at all [TS]

  interested in expanding i think we [TS]

  talked about this a little bitter but [TS]

  are you all interested in expanding into [TS]

  being like i ad for other people so to [TS]

  speak you know and and oh and either [TS]

  white labeling your ad platform or just [TS]

  extending your ad platform to anyone [TS]

  elses at apps probably not I it because [TS]

  like once you become an ad network for [TS]

  other people that's a very different [TS]

  business and it's a much higher needs [TS]

  business for you know just dealing with [TS]

  people dealing with everyone else's [TS]

  money dealing with staffing and doing [TS]

  people's issues and it's a much bigger [TS]

  business it's a much higher touch [TS]

  business and this system I built kind of [TS]

  in response to other types of [TS]

  I've done where it's like you know for [TS]

  like blog ads and podcast ads where a [TS]

  lot of times you know you have to like [TS]

  rehearse of sponsors you have to you [TS]

  know coordinate with them via four or [TS]

  five different emails you eventually [TS]

  like put the ad and you're-- it you book [TS]

  the ad in your system you do the ad and [TS]

  you have to invoice them and then they [TS]

  might take six months to pay the invoice [TS]

  like we see we've seen the whole whole [TS]

  spectrum some people pay the next day [TS]

  some people pay a year later or not at [TS]

  all and it's a very just intensive [TS]

  process and there are tools like fresh [TS]

  books that make it easier but it's it's [TS]

  still a lot of just human work and just [TS]

  dealing with administration to just do [TS]

  the basics of selling and getting paid [TS]

  and so with this I I really created this [TS]

  to be as simple as possible and this is [TS]

  actually one thing's going to keep the [TS]

  prices kind of low because most big [TS]

  companies who would sponsor things like [TS]

  this who would buy these ads if it's [TS]

  below a certain price oftentimes that's [TS]

  a thousand dollars it requires less of a [TS]

  process for them to approve the payment [TS]

  so you know a lot of times big companies [TS]

  if you if it's more than that you'll [TS]

  have to go through like an official you [TS]

  know requisition process or some other [TS]

  you know garbage full of paperwork and [TS]

  overhead but if it's you know if it's if [TS]

  it's lower if it's like a you know a sub [TS]

  one thousand dollar price for something [TS]

  a lot of times you can just put that on [TS]

  a credit card and be done with it and [TS]

  not have to worry too much about it so I [TS]

  want to keep these prices in that range [TS]

  so that way I can have the system i have [TS]

  now which is look if you want one of [TS]

  these it's self-serve you you go to my [TS]

  site you set it up you pay right there I [TS]

  don't even see it until you pay because [TS]

  I don't want to have to be chasing you [TS]

  down in a year you didn't pay your [TS]

  invoice ok I hate that so much and so [TS]

  like this system is very much like [TS]

  keeping it as simple as it possibly can [TS]

  keep it and part of that it requires the [TS]

  prices be kind of low that definitely [TS]

  requires that everything remains [TS]

  self-serve and it requires that not a [TS]

  lot that I'm doing involves human [TS]

  interaction from me because if that's if [TS]

  that's what it ends up needing to be [TS]

  I'll have to hire someone else to help [TS]

  me because I don't have the time to be [TS]

  dealing with a lot of effort into the [TS]

  system but in order to keep at that size [TS]

  and that scale I basically have to keep [TS]

  it my appt only I can't [TS]

  come an ad network for any other apps [TS]

  because that will that will by nature [TS]

  make it a bigger more complicated thing [TS]

  the prices would probably go up I'd have [TS]

  to start dealing with people stupid [TS]

  invoice systems and I just don't want to [TS]

  deal with that that's not the business I [TS]

  want to be in does makes a lot of sense [TS]

  I you know the thing that impresses me [TS]

  about you is that maybe I mean I'm just [TS]

  a big wimp but the audacity of doing [TS]

  something like this like aw screw it [TS]

  I'll saw my own ads why not like there's [TS]

  no way in a million years maybe I would [TS]

  have had the thought if I were in your [TS]

  shoes but I'd look at this and be like [TS]

  yeah I'm not gonna do that there's no [TS]

  way that'll work and good then good on [TS]

  you for not only having the the I don't [TS]

  know fortitude to do it but to make it [TS]

  happen it's so far seems successful like [TS]

  John has said I think the ticking time [TS]

  bomb is about a year away until you do [TS]

  another business model change so I [TS]

  canceled fail miserably I I don't I was [TS]

  mostly doing as a joke is if it like [TS]

  like Mara said if it continues like this [TS]

  or better like there's no reason to [TS]

  unless I don't like I said unless [TS]

  somehow it becomes too much of a burden [TS]

  for mark or deal with it I don't see how [TS]

  it would because everything he just [TS]

  outlined about how he doesn't have to do [TS]

  anything and doesn't have to chase [TS]

  people for money and doesn't have to get [TS]

  money on behalf of other people like I [TS]

  you know again maybe he's leaving money [TS]

  on the table by saying I'm going to try [TS]

  to keep it in the in the petty cash [TS]

  range but if that's enough money then [TS]

  it's fine and it should be sustainable [TS]

  same could have probably been set up at [TS]

  all the past plans so again we have to [TS]

  wait to see how it's going to be but if [TS]

  it actually continues like this [TS]

  sustainably I don't really see any [TS]

  reason for him to change models yeah and [TS]

  completely because like the sales would [TS]

  have to go down a lot for it to make [TS]

  sense for me to look another model again [TS]

  because right now I have pretty much [TS]

  everything I want I have a way to get [TS]

  sustainable income I have my peg [TS]

  subscriber still which is it's only a [TS]

  nice sustainable income that can almost [TS]

  support the whole business by itself so [TS]

  this is kind of just bonus money and [TS]

  this is monetizing all the free users [TS]

  finally in a way that actually works [TS]

  because the ads really didn't do that [TS]

  well enough the other the previous ads [TS]

  so this is kind of a great system as [TS]

  long as it continues to sell the [TS]

  inventory at any reasonable rate and you [TS]

  know day one again it's it's a [TS]

  possible to say I mean you know what [TS]

  once you have the kind of audience that [TS]

  my app has I i could sell out day one [TS]

  pretty easily but the question is what [TS]

  happens on day 365 when people have had [TS]

  a year worth of buying these ads to see [TS]

  what they're actually worth and what if [TS]

  they're worth a lot less than what i'm [TS]

  charging obviously have to lower my [TS]

  prices but like what are they worth we [TS]

  don't know there I don't has ever been a [TS]

  system where you could advertise for a [TS]

  podcast in a podcast player so this is [TS]

  really a complete unknown for both me [TS]

  and the advertisers we have no idea what [TS]

  what a subscriber is worth you know or [TS]

  how much do you subscribers stick around [TS]

  all right you know if you get a sacar [TS]

  through an ad are they you know how many [TS]

  of them are still subscribed in a year [TS]

  we don't know and so it's it's the great [TS]

  unknown right now but day one suggests [TS]

  that it's pretty that there's basically [TS]

  a very wide buffer here for things to [TS]

  need to be scaled down if necessary if [TS]

  it ends up the economics don't work very [TS]

  well I can scale this way down and it's [TS]

  still worth doing so that that to me [TS]

  shows that this is probably a good idea [TS]

  by the way those are other controls I [TS]

  have like I can increase the number of [TS]

  slots that sell you know like in certain [TS]

  categories if they if they demand that [TS]

  the price be below a certain level to [TS]

  sell them very often I can just put more [TS]

  slots there you know like this is this [TS]

  is a known thing to do like Pete you [TS]

  know people have been dealing with AD [TS]

  based businesses of quite a long time [TS]

  now we know how to do it and as long as [TS]

  the ads are valuable at all you can [TS]

  usually make it work and and I think [TS]

  what we're seeing so far is it I think [TS]

  these are valuable the only question is [TS]

  just how valuable and that but that's [TS]

  really just minor tweaks over time [TS]

  that's not like having to rethink the [TS]

  whole system yeah that's super cool I'm [TS]

  really impressed really proud of this [TS]

  good work thanks a couple of very quick [TS]

  questions would you consider open [TS]

  sourcing this ad back end so that other [TS]

  people can copy all your hard work for [TS]

  free probably not but it's not out of [TS]

  like a like a guarding my hard work kind [TS]

  of attitude it's more just like a lot of [TS]

  it is pretty intertwined with overcast [TS]

  so it wouldn't make a lot of sense [TS]

  for this to be used for anybody else you [TS]

  know like this is really an ad network [TS]

  for podcasts on overcast that happens to [TS]

  also work for websites so like you know [TS]

  it's not it's pretty custom to overcast [TS]

  and most of the hard stuff is payment [TS]

  processing which I don't even wish the [TS]

  seal anybody can integrates directed to [TS]

  that so it's yeah I just had a lot of [TS]

  value to that fair enough and finally uh [TS]

  where's my swipe to delete I was doing [TS]

  this so I haven't done that yet I'm [TS]

  gonna tackle that probably next week [TS]

  it's got 30 days to do swipe to delete [TS]

  is that how this works yeah well I have [TS]

  29 days to do it then one day to make [TS]

  all these notifications fair enough I [TS]

  take back all the nice things he said [TS]

  unless you give me my swipe to delete [TS]

  one star we respond to this week by [TS]

  Casper an obsessively engineered [TS]

  mattress at a shockingly fair price go [TS]

  to Casper calm / ATP and use code ATP [TS]

  for fifty dollars towards your mattress [TS]

  Casper created one perfect mattress sold [TS]

  it directly to consumers and eliminated [TS]

  Commission driven inflated prices the [TS]

  award-winning Casper mattress was [TS]

  developed in house with a sleek design [TS]

  and is delivered in a remarkably small [TS]

  box you can get it up narrow stairs if [TS]

  you have to Casper has revolutionize the [TS]

  industry by cut in the cost of dealing [TS]

  with all these resellers and passing [TS]

  that savings directly on to you the [TS]

  in-house team of Casper engineers spent [TS]

  thousands of hours developing the Casper [TS]

  mattress it contains supportive memory [TS]

  foams for a sleep surface with just the [TS]

  right sink and just the right bounce and [TS]

  it's breathable design sleeves cool to [TS]

  help you regulate your temperature [TS]

  throughout the night Casper has also [TS]

  made buying mattresses online which [TS]

  sounds kind of crazy completely easy and [TS]

  risk-free they have free delivery in [TS]

  that nice and small box and free returns [TS]

  within a hundred night home trial if you [TS]

  don't love it within a hundred nights of [TS]

  sleeping on it they will arrange for it [TS]

  to be picked up at your house and [TS]

  they'll give you a full refund Casper [TS]

  understand the importance of truly [TS]

  sleeping on our mattress before you [TS]

  commit because you're gonna be spending [TS]

  a third of your life on it get yours and [TS]

  try it for a hundred nights in your own [TS]

  home with free delivery and free returns [TS]

  with home pick up completely risk-free [TS]

  go to casper calm / [TS]

  ATP use code ATP for fifty dollars [TS]

  towards your mattress terms and [TS]

  conditions do apply once again Casper [TS]

  calm / ATP and code ATP thank you very [TS]

  much to Casper for sponsoring our show [TS]

  so today I think what's today um there [TS]

  was a rumor that broke that came out of [TS]

  the wall street journal which is usually [TS]

  pretty well sourced in fact usually [TS]

  well-sourced enough that we all kind of [TS]

  believe that Apple goes to the wall [TS]

  street journal and says hey would you [TS]

  talk about this please and the Wall [TS]

  Street Journal has said that the iphone [TS]

  8 or whatever it may be called will have [TS]

  us bc and at first i thought oh this [TS]

  means that it will have lightning on the [TS]

  phone and USB see on the other end of [TS]

  the cable instead of via USB what is it [TS]

  be a i always get it confused hey [TS]

  whatever the day thank you whatever [TS]

  today is B is the Pentagon on printers [TS]

  all right ok so anyway so I assumed oh [TS]

  that just means that the cable will go [TS]

  from lightning to USB see that makes [TS]

  sense most pretty much all the laptops [TS]

  or USB see now fine but upon further [TS]

  inspection it sounds like no no the [TS]

  phone itself will actually be us bc and [TS]

  I have really conflicting opinions about [TS]

  this because my gut reaction is no no I [TS]

  do not want this I have a crudload of [TS]

  lightning cables lightning is really [TS]

  small and I don't want to mess with that [TS]

  what good does this do me and I think [TS]

  that that's in large part because off [TS]

  the top of my head I don't think I own a [TS]

  single device that supports USB see so I [TS]

  guess you could make the argument i'm [TS]

  living in the past and if you make the [TS]

  argument on living in the past and I [TS]

  guess really this is the future and [TS]

  maybe i should be using us bc and i [TS]

  should embrace my future us bc overlords [TS]

  so John Mark when I were talking a lot [TS]

  earlier what do you think about all this [TS]

  this is a weird rumor because like you [TS]

  said is in the wall street journal which [TS]

  is usually like the the end the end [TS]

  stage of life for rumors if they [TS]

  graduate all the way up to [TS]

  Anjali and end up in the wall street [TS]

  journal but as so many people have [TS]

  pointed out it is so poorly written the [TS]

  bikini men tell it's like it was written [TS]

  by someone who doesn't understand any of [TS]

  the things involved they don't [TS]

  understand how phones work they don't [TS]

  understand what these different [TS]

  standards for connectors are they don't [TS]

  understand what a port is because they [TS]

  wrote it in such a way they were all [TS]

  reading it going what what are you even [TS]

  trying to say just like Casey said are [TS]

  you just saying that the other end of [TS]

  the connector will be C are you saying [TS]

  the phone will have USBC port are you [TS]

  saying i pads will have USB seaports in [TS]

  addition to the lighting but like what [TS]

  do you what are you even saying this is [TS]

  the worst leak ever like you have to [TS]

  leak in a coherent way so we can at [TS]

  least understand the thing that you're [TS]

  telling us is supposed to be coming but [TS]

  so I've kind of discounted or not [TS]

  discounted but I've set aside how this [TS]

  rumor is being communicated I've chosen [TS]

  to believe that what these things are [TS]

  trying to tell us is exactly what Casey [TS]

  said and that if you pick up an iphone [TS]

  in the future and look at the bottom of [TS]

  it instead of a lightning port you'll [TS]

  see a USBC port like every other you [TS]

  know android phone and all the other [TS]

  things that are out there right that's [TS]

  what I'm choosing to to think this is [TS]

  trying to tell me and then I'm thinking [TS]

  about that if it's trying to tell me [TS]

  something different like oh that you [TS]

  know the other end of the lightning [TS]

  cable is going to be us bc that is a [TS]

  super boring rumor and i guess we could [TS]

  kind of get upset about that because as [TS]

  has been pointed out in many places [TS]

  before that's cool for apples ecosystem [TS]

  and it kind of makes sense and it kind [TS]

  of gets back to the whole iphone 7 thing [TS]

  we're like oh you buy an iphone 7 a new [TS]

  macbook pro you can't even plug them in [TS]

  because there's no place to put the USB [TS]

  a connector that's true and all but USB [TS]

  a is everywhere as a charging port it's [TS]

  on my luggage for crying out loud like [TS]

  it is everywhere so there's an argument [TS]

  to be had there that Apple doing that [TS]

  would be maybe an apple thing to do to [TS]

  be like oh you should just you know you [TS]

  should be in an Apple ecosystem are our [TS]

  power bricks have us bc connectors [TS]

  that's the future i'll blog anyway i'm [TS]

  ignoring that I'm just pretending [TS]

  they're telling me that there's going to [TS]

  be USBC port on iPhones and I I'm of two [TS]

  minds on this like I feel like yeah [TS]

  there are strong arguments on both sides [TS]

  both strong arguments for why this would [TS]

  be good and bad and also surprisingly [TS]

  strong arguments for why Apple wouldn't [TS]

  wouldn't do this like usually it's the [TS]

  it [TS]

  the opposite it's like okay well there's [TS]

  arguments for and against on a tech wise [TS]

  but then when you bring apple into the [TS]

  picture you say what apple do this like [TS]

  this is the only one strong argument for [TS]

  like that text up aside we know Apple [TS]

  would definitely do a thing like this or [TS]

  would never do a thing like this and [TS]

  with Apple an estate it is I think you [TS]

  can look to apple and say very strongly [TS]

  they both would do something like this [TS]

  and wouldn't do something like this and [TS]

  for the tech you can say this is an [TS]

  awesome tech idea this is a bad tech [TS]

  idea so for on the tech side obviously [TS]

  why is this a bad idea because lighting [TS]

  is smaller and you know that every [TS]

  connector every millimeter on a [TS]

  connector is some number of months or [TS]

  years off its life as Apple makes things [TS]

  ever thinner and thinner you're going to [TS]

  hit the limit of us bc before you at the [TS]

  limit of lightning not much before it's [TS]

  like probably like fractions of a [TS]

  millimeter or something but a little bit [TS]

  before lightning is smaller than USB say [TS]

  so there's that on the other side of the [TS]

  tech thing and this is a little bit of [TS]

  an unknown here lightning we don't know [TS]

  how unreliable lightning is like we have [TS]

  anecdotal evidence of weird connector [TS]

  scorching and stuff Apple knows for sure [TS]

  what their warranty repair thing is you [TS]

  know and also the Apple cables [TS]

  themselves which really has nothing to [TS]

  do with connector and everything to do [TS]

  with apples uncomfortable relationship [TS]

  with strain really fun cables where they [TS]

  apparently make things that don't hold [TS]

  up that well when the under you know [TS]

  under rough usage but there is a tech [TS]

  argument to be made for you know for the [TS]

  fact that lightning is smaller but also [TS]

  the fact that USB USB c and someone will [TS]

  correct me if i'm wrong it inverts the [TS]

  relationship of springing pieces of [TS]

  metal and stationary pieces of metal [TS]

  where the connector is stationary and [TS]

  solid and has these contacts on it which [TS]

  is great and makes that connector of [TS]

  sturdy but the inside of the device has [TS]

  the little springy metal fingers that [TS]

  touch the contact points so if the [TS]

  little springing metal fingers get [TS]

  fatigued or bent up or fail to make good [TS]

  contact that's inside your phone you got [TS]

  a problem whereas us b/c connector is i [TS]

  believe the springy bits are in the [TS]

  cable and inside the connector is the [TS]

  stiff stationary thing i'm using the [TS]

  hectic [TS]

  for all this I'm sure and so if the [TS]

  little springy bits that make contact [TS]

  with the stationary thing fatigue [TS]

  throughout the cable and get a new cable [TS]

  so that that is a tech argument on the [TS]

  side of us bc and then again I guess on [TS]

  the connectors themselves you've got the [TS]

  you know the business side of like Oh [TS]

  Apple gets money for lightning [TS]

  connectors people can make peripherals [TS]

  without it that's a good and a bad thing [TS]

  because good Apple makes money and [TS]

  control it it's bad that Apple has to [TS]

  approve every peripheral yeah so that's [TS]

  like you could their arguments about [TS]

  side for the tech thing and then with [TS]

  move over to Apple is this a thing Apple [TS]

  would do or is this an apple thing Apple [TS]

  wouldn't do and I think probably as soon [TS]

  as like a couple years in the past we [TS]

  all would have said regardless of all [TS]

  that tech stuff we just talked about [TS]

  Apple will never do this because Apple [TS]

  loves things super thin and Apple of [TS]

  things proprietary and Apple is not so [TS]

  much in love with conforming to industry [TS]

  standards just for the hell of it right [TS]

  that would that would be the only side [TS]

  of this argument it all be like yep [TS]

  totally like that's the Apple but [TS]

  today's Apple today's Apple is doing [TS]

  things the old apple didn't do both good [TS]

  and bad and has sowed enough doubt in my [TS]

  mind that I I'm now envisioning these [TS]

  boardroom conversations where somebody [TS]

  high-ups it says tell me again what the [TS]

  advantages are of the our proprietary [TS]

  lightning connector versus us bc and [TS]

  maybe this comes up because of large [TS]

  numbers of warranty repairs or you know [TS]

  who knows what the inciting incident is [TS]

  but someone says remind me again what [TS]

  we've been doing this lightning thing [TS]

  for five years like what advantage do we [TS]

  continue to have over over us bc [TS]

  especially now that we spread us bc to [TS]

  all of our you know all of our macs and [TS]

  our power brick connectors and you know [TS]

  all that stuff and presumably if they [TS]

  ever released new macs they will expand [TS]

  it even more of them why are we still [TS]

  using lightning in not saying that's not [TS]

  a reason but just you know just go over [TS]

  it again for me like tell me again what [TS]

  the advantages are great if it's el [TS]

  mocambo like here's our revenue from our [TS]

  made for iphone program [TS]

  and here's what we've been able to do [TS]

  with the connector but changing the pins [TS]

  through software and we're not beholden [TS]

  to the USB consortium in here this love [TS]

  habla and maybe there's an argument [TS]

  within the company so that's those are [TS]

  compelling arguments and now here's what [TS]

  we would get with us bc everywhere would [TS]

  be the same one connector for power data [TS]

  peripherals video out at adapters for [TS]

  networking like across max and all ass [TS]

  devices including the future much bigger [TS]

  iPads that were surely making with [TS]

  multiple USB connectors on them right an [TS]

  apple make a mouse yeah other person to [TS]

  make that once you once you standardize [TS]

  on just literally one omnidirectional [TS]

  connector that's really small across all [TS]

  your products that's that's an advantage [TS]

  and you you get to take advantage of the [TS]

  ecosystem of existing USBC peripherals [TS]

  which presumably will only grow as other [TS]

  things adopt it so an apple five years [TS]

  ago I can't imagine this discussion even [TS]

  taking place in serious ways apple today [TS]

  I can imagine this discussion being had [TS]

  prompted by whatever and I can imagine [TS]

  the USBC contingent inside Apple winning [TS]

  the argument and saying we're going to [TS]

  go with the industry standard even [TS]

  though it is worse than a few ways tech [TS]

  wise because it's also better in a few [TS]

  ways tech wise and there's an ecosystem [TS]

  advantage not just for apple and non [TS]

  apple companies but for Apple's own [TS]

  products internally to standardize them [TS]

  one because it's never been this never [TS]

  been a chance to do that before at no [TS]

  time in the past has there been any [TS]

  viable choice for a standard connector [TS]

  for like iPods and all macs except for I [TS]

  guess when it was firewire but that was [TS]

  part I was hardly viable and firewire [TS]

  was definitely not the standard across [TS]

  all macs that Max's the demon have it on [TS]

  it so here we are and I find myself [TS]

  incredibly believing a rumor that if you [TS]

  drive phone would have a USBC connector [TS]

  on it because you know it's not it's not [TS]

  a slam dunk and I'm not even saying it's [TS]

  higher than 5050 but i would i would say [TS]

  it is fifty-fifty in my mind that tech [TS]

  wise coin flip would Apple do it coin [TS]

  flip that's that's where I come down on [TS]

  us do you want them to I kind of do [TS]

  because if they're going to standardize [TS]

  on us bc everywhere [TS]

  on us bc everywhere [TS]

  the I'm sold on the uniformity win and [TS]

  I'm also kind of sort of sold on the [TS]

  durability win with the little bendy [TS]

  finger things and I have no I have no [TS]

  data on the right liability thing and of [TS]

  course well my connector is still work [TS]

  and I don't have these problems that [TS]

  people have to do of price you know yeah [TS]

  well though my wife said she had one of [TS]

  hers that had the little scorch mark I [TS]

  looked at it it wasn't like wasn't like [TS]

  part was was but that you just just [TS]

  mechanically speaking like I love the [TS]

  Lightning activated was solid and didn't [TS]

  have any little fragile Pinzon and [TS]

  everything but the fact that they're [TS]

  those little things those little fragile [TS]

  fingers are inside the phones I can see [TS]

  that being prompted a right I don't have [TS]

  data on this but I'm willing to believe [TS]

  and so if they did it I won't be angry [TS]

  I'll be kind of proud of them for being [TS]

  surprisingly pragmatic and courageous [TS]

  and for ya kind of kind of not so much [TS]

  courageous in terms of like like we're [TS]

  willing to take the heat because I think [TS]

  they wouldn't actually that's the other [TS]

  aspect to this some people were going to [TS]

  me like you just changed the connector [TS]

  you're changing it again well first of [TS]

  all just as a relative term like the [TS]

  30-pin connector was around for almost [TS]

  ten years and so you know that I think [TS]

  that's a good run this is slightly more [TS]

  than half of that it's if they ended up [TS]

  swapping this out and slowly [TS]

  transitioning it would be like five six [TS]

  years by the time they were done [TS]

  transitioning everything right all the [TS]

  products they sold that's a little bit [TS]

  that's you know it's shorter than a [TS]

  30-pin but unlike the 30 pin to [TS]

  lightning they wouldn't be changing one [TS]

  proprietary connector for another they [TS]

  would actually be moving to where [TS]

  everybody else already is so I can't I [TS]

  think actually people wouldn't be all [TS]

  that mad about yes you'll be mad all I [TS]

  have leave lightning cables what the [TS]

  hell do I do with them right but there [TS]

  is a wit there is a PR and real win [TS]

  there to say but we move to the standard [TS]

  we move to the industry standard so now [TS]

  you know if you're in a mixed household [TS]

  Android and iOS device you don't have to [TS]

  have two separate charging cables and [TS]

  the thing that you use to charge your [TS]

  Mac can also charge your phone and just [TS]

  there's a you know there's a story to be [TS]

  had there to sell this so that it is [TS]

  less impact so that it's basically even [TS]

  though it hasn't been around for 10 [TS]

  years we're not moving to another [TS]

  proprietary one we're not screwing your [TS]

  movie the interest and so people will be [TS]

  less angry for a shorter [TS]

  period of time I think Marco yeah I I [TS]

  pretty much agree with John if you would [TS]

  have asked me a year ago I would have [TS]

  said all that why would they kill [TS]

  anything that's dumb in this moment copy [TS]

  your grab might have said it after that [TS]

  who knows but the way I feel about it [TS]

  now like it's what you know that now [TS]

  that I've had my my USB see macbook pro [TS]

  for a few months and I've I have a few [TS]

  USBC cables and now I had the stupid [TS]

  thing where I have like half of my [TS]

  cables are that car and half for another [TS]

  cry and its really annoying and you know [TS]

  on the phone it's a little bit different [TS]

  than like a laptop because it's the [TS]

  other end of the cable but it is kind of [TS]

  annoying when I'm packing for a trip and [TS]

  I'm packing my charging cables that most [TS]

  of what i use charges via lightning but [TS]

  not all of what i use i still have to [TS]

  have a u.s. you know some mini USB [TS]

  cables and now i have a USBC cable for [TS]

  this new laptop and probably anything i [TS]

  get in the future will be USBC cables [TS]

  there is a lot you know like the EU has [TS]

  mandated certain charge cable standards [TS]

  for a while and the reason why is [TS]

  because this actually generates tons of [TS]

  waste like all the different like waste [TS]

  cables that people have to you know buy [TS]

  separately and then we're at separately [TS]

  if their own way and have all these [TS]

  different connectors and everything it [TS]

  actually does hurt progress on a number [TS]

  of big ways to have all these [TS]

  proprietary things I think all you have [TS]

  to do to decide whether this is a good [TS]

  idea or not kind of in like in theory is [TS]

  to think like if they were designing the [TS]

  iphone 5 the first cable if the first [TS]

  phone not to use the dock connector if [TS]

  they were designing that today would [TS]

  they still make lightning today in a [TS]

  world where USBC exists or would they [TS]

  just use us bc and it's kind of you know [TS]

  if you do the metal exercise like what [TS]

  would be like the right thing to do if [TS]

  they were if they had a clean start [TS]

  today if there was no legacy to worry [TS]

  about no established devices out there [TS]

  on the world what would be like the [TS]

  right choice and i think it's very clear [TS]

  USPSA for the right choice you know [TS]

  assuming it is probably more resilient [TS]

  because of you know having the pins on [TS]

  the cable and so instead of the plug [TS]

  things like that but also just because [TS]

  it is clearly a really good very soon to [TS]

  be very widespread industry standard [TS]

  and there's a lot of benefits to that [TS]

  like Apple does love a good proprietary [TS]

  port but when they can make one they do [TS]

  love that they'll take it took advantage [TS]

  when they can but not always sometimes [TS]

  they just use standard things like us be [TS]

  like on the max like you know they for a [TS]

  long time they used a standard headphone [TS]

  jack because that it wasn't worth making [TS]

  their own custom headphone jack like the [TS]

  world had a standard for this thing and [TS]

  they used it and most of the time they [TS]

  do that most of the time that's the [TS]

  choice they make and right now I think [TS]

  it's very very clear that you like when [TS]

  they made the dock connector that was a [TS]

  special purpose thing they made for [TS]

  ipods they and they later adapted it [TS]

  when they made lightning there was [TS]

  nothing better for them to move to it [TS]

  the industry the any of the USB [TS]

  consortium and their people were [TS]

  designing god knows what with all those [TS]

  crazy like like the USB 3 b connector [TS]

  mini micro USB the the seven connectors [TS]

  i have to my digital cameras in the [TS]

  house yeah it looks almost the same yeah [TS]

  and that like pretty much everything the [TS]

  USB people have ever designed from a [TS]

  cable perspective or from a country [TS]

  perspective rather has been horrendous [TS]

  before us pc it's no coincidence that [TS]

  Apple allegedly had a very big role in [TS]

  USBC possibly even designed the whole [TS]

  thing themselves and just like handing [TS]

  it to the USB people saying here if [TS]

  that's another reason by the way that [TS]

  this argument could be one inside Apple [TS]

  because whatever sort of not invented [TS]

  here Apple pride things may be [TS]

  preventing it like with lightning we [TS]

  made that be like we kind of made us bc [TS]

  too so yeah we're all good and we're all [TS]

  good in the pride area even if the world [TS]

  doesn't know it we here at Apple know [TS]

  that we kind of made this too so that [TS]

  there's another that that's why I can [TS]

  imagine this argument big one inside [TS]

  Apple exactly and so today no question [TS]

  the right move if you were starting [TS]

  fresh would be us bc and so the only [TS]

  question is is it worth it for Apple to [TS]

  endure the transition costs to get to [TS]

  that point and I think you know Apple [TS]

  you know I made a joke about courage [TS]

  earlier referring to there they're [TS]

  wonderful just justification for moving [TS]

  the headphone jack but I think ditching [TS]

  lightning this year and going to us bc [TS]

  in this new fancy phone that would be [TS]

  real courage because they are going to [TS]

  hear about it from the users if they do [TS]

  is they are definitely going to hear [TS]

  from people i mean people are [TS]

  mad today about lightning I think [TS]

  they're still mad almost five years [TS]

  later that they can't use their dock [TS]

  connector that they bought ten years ago [TS]

  to charge their iphone I do hope though [TS]

  like maybe I bought his numbers in this [TS]

  because Android phones are super risky I [TS]

  think I saw like what their market share [TS]

  is among smartphones I think it's like [TS]

  eighty percent or something it's some [TS]

  really really high number I'm hoping [TS]

  that every house that has some high [TS]

  percentage of the houses that have angry [TS]

  people who are angry about like dropping [TS]

  lightning the they'll be USBC charging [TS]

  cables hanging around within a couple [TS]

  years to charge the android phones mass [TS]

  exactly and so if you think about like [TS]

  what does an all USBC world look like [TS]

  well we're already gonna be halfway [TS]

  there because all android phones are [TS]

  going to have it if they don't already [TS]

  they're gonna have it you know probably [TS]

  the next year right and so like you're [TS]

  gonna start seeing now in you know in [TS]

  places like like you know like hotel [TS]

  nightstands and like charging cables in [TS]

  like airports and and like terminals and [TS]

  stuff like that like you're gonna start [TS]

  seeing you know where we're used to see [TS]

  maybe you'd have a lightning port or [TS]

  lightning cable and maybe you have one [TS]

  of those dual like lightning and micro [TS]

  USB things you're gonna start seeing us [TS]

  bc all over all those things now for all [TS]

  the android phones and wouldn't it be [TS]

  great if they could just do us bc and [TS]

  have that cover although that would just [TS]

  be the new standard for charging your [TS]

  phone but that would be amazing i think [TS]

  apple had big plans for lightning for it [TS]

  being this like amazing universal report [TS]

  that could do all these different data [TS]

  things and everything and i think part [TS]

  of the justification for removing the [TS]

  headphone jack last year was you know it [TS]

  turns out live in a wireless world like [TS]

  most what we do is wireless it's still [TS]

  like i'll go like i'll go look at like [TS]

  you know audio stuff i try to buy like a [TS]

  decent microphone or sound interface for [TS]

  iOS devices and a lot of them didn't [TS]

  even make the jump from 30-pin to [TS]

  lightning I think lightning largely [TS]

  hasn't panned out in like being the [TS]

  universal accessory port Apple wanted it [TS]

  to be and for a number of reasons one is [TS]

  you know wireless things are so good [TS]

  another is that Android is more of a [TS]

  presence than I think Apple you know [TS]

  thought it would be or wanted it to be [TS]

  in that market you know it's similar to [TS]

  like you know one of the reasons [TS]

  everyone said why they wouldn't maybe do [TS]

  this is what they just had to never make [TS]

  light [TS]

  headphones this past year and well no [TS]

  lighting headphones have actually been [TS]

  around for a couple years but there's [TS]

  been like three pairs of them like [TS]

  there's been almost none and almost [TS]

  nobody uses them the only ones that have [TS]

  any reasonable use are the ones that [TS]

  Apple includes in the box for free with [TS]

  the iphone 7 but if they changed us bc [TS]

  they would probably just include a USBC [TS]

  version and just like it was basically [TS]

  no big deal for all the people who got [TS]

  the ones in the box for free with the [TS]

  iphone 7 it would be similarly no big [TS]

  deal for all the people who would get [TS]

  the new USBC ones in the box with the [TS]

  iphone 8 or whatever it's called so like [TS]

  that you can rule that argument right [TS]

  out that doesn't matter that that [TS]

  doesn't matter enough right if you also [TS]

  look at the ipad in particular the ipad [TS]

  really needs needs help you know it it [TS]

  needs to become more of a work device to [TS]

  boost its sales because it seems like [TS]

  you know they nailed the like passive [TS]

  consumption market pretty well if you [TS]

  want a passive consumption by rich [TS]

  people market yeah that yeah yeah the [TS]

  high end of the passive consumption [TS]

  market they they they have that covered [TS]

  now where I think they need to make a [TS]

  lot more headway is in the productivity [TS]

  market and they are starting to see you [TS]

  know things like things like the surface [TS]

  hurting them but not in like a massive [TS]

  way yet but in a way that they should [TS]

  really be noticing and that they [TS]

  probably are and for the ipad to grow [TS]

  they they are making it more PC like [TS]

  they added the smart keyboards they [TS]

  added the smart connector they added the [TS]

  pencil that you know they're going to [TS]

  hopefully keep pushing in this direction [TS]

  you know who knows what the software has [TS]

  coming next month or this month or [TS]

  whatever it is we'll see i guess but i [TS]

  think there is large potential if you [TS]

  would put a USBC port on an iPad because [TS]

  right now I'm in earlier but like sound [TS]

  devices and things that you like very [TS]

  few them are available for lightning [TS]

  everything is available for computers [TS]

  like every kind of peripheral you can [TS]

  think of is available with a USB [TS]

  interface on the end of it and it made [TS]

  me not USBC port necessary but like it [TS]

  could plug into USB seaport through a [TS]

  very easy cheap cable or a very easy [TS]

  adapter that you probably would already [TS]

  have three up in the bag if Apple wants [TS]

  the iPad to become more of a computer [TS]

  replacement [TS]

  adding a USBC port or two or three is [TS]

  not ridiculous you know it's a kind of [TS]

  early I remember when I suggested that [TS]

  it was on this show I suggested maybe a [TS]

  couple years ago adding a bunch of USB [TS]

  ports the ipad knife pretty sure both [TS]

  you laughed at me very heartily because [TS]

  every Apple commentator would have [TS]

  laughed the suggestion a year ago or [TS]

  more we all did every since the ipad [TS]

  wanna live and laugh at it i said like [TS]

  you have so much room on the side of the [TS]

  ipad and they wanted to be a bit more [TS]

  capable it's the place to put i was [TS]

  thinking of us be a ports that's how [TS]

  long ago it was like I was envisioning [TS]

  USBA ports on the side of like the iPad [TS]

  1 because there was actually room for [TS]

  them back then but you know the Apple no [TS]

  no I like I want more than one port on [TS]

  the 12 inch iPad pro I don't want just [TS]

  one centered in the bottom replacing the [TS]

  Lightning port you have the opportunity [TS]

  to put more than one there's plenty of [TS]

  room and if you want it to be the pro [TS]

  iPad like surface hardware it doesn't [TS]

  have just one port for power and all USB [TS]

  like the macbook one does so you gotta [TS]

  compete yeah so I think the ipad there's [TS]

  lots of new uses or uses that would be [TS]

  better if the ipad had us bc ports at [TS]

  least one and if they're gonna do that [TS]

  why would they keep the Lightning port [TS]

  also it would it would make very little [TS]

  sense to keep the light of your [TS]

  headphones right now speaking of that I [TS]

  just realized the other day wouldn't [TS]

  reading these stories about lighting [TS]

  headphones and stuff I realized I [TS]

  actually don't know where my lightning [TS]

  headphones the came with my iphone 7 are [TS]

  right now in the house I don't think I [TS]

  lost them but I don't know where there [TS]

  are now because I've been using air pots [TS]

  and right if they if they get out ahead [TS]

  of this if they do the transition now [TS]

  with the anticipation to it has been two [TS]

  things one thing marketer said that like [TS]

  us bc it's not it's not pervasive now [TS]

  but presumably in a few years it will be [TS]

  pervasive thanks to android phones and [TS]

  everything right so they'll be out ahead [TS]

  of that so they will be saving their [TS]

  customers from the experience of being [TS]

  like oh I'm on vacation and oh I can't [TS]

  use my iphone with this thingy or this [TS]

  charge cable because it's not USB so [TS]

  saving them from that and then to the [TS]

  thing the Apple kind of knows in [TS]

  controls is what is the time horizon for [TS]

  wireless charging right is that just [TS]

  around the corner is it one or two years [TS]

  I feel like Apple if they switch now [TS]

  will be saying [TS]

  we believe that by the time we get our [TS]

  device is something that we can't USB [TS]

  can't use USBC anymore we'll have the [TS]

  wireless charging thing covered so again [TS]

  they're in a position to know and those [TS]

  all seem like reasonable things that [TS]

  happen well the other thing is like I [TS]

  mean this this doesn't sound a lot more [TS]

  likely than Apple adding USB 2 and iPad [TS]

  but what if the phone is getting thicker [TS]

  because they're getting rid of the [TS]

  bezels and they need somewhere to put [TS]

  things at the camera the reason why [TS]

  those bezels are there is you know [TS]

  partly out of like you know looks and [TS]

  grip and everything but mostly because [TS]

  that's where have to put a bunch of [TS]

  components that are too deep to fit [TS]

  behind the screen and if they're moving [TS]

  to these larger screen like more edge to [TS]

  edge phone designs that can be smaller [TS]

  in the hand I have a smaller you know [TS]

  width and height in the hand they might [TS]

  have to get thicker in order to just [TS]

  have space for things like a decent [TS]

  camera get ready for some bigger camera [TS]

  bumps well probably but that's that [TS]

  seems like a more Apple II as as judged [TS]

  by the iphone 7 they'll just make a [TS]

  bigger bulge rather than make pulsing [TS]

  water thicker but we'll see yeah maybe [TS]

  anyway so my point is basically that [TS]

  like in a perfect world if they started [TS]

  from scratch they had no legacy they'd [TS]

  probably go USB see that would probably [TS]

  the best option if you look at the ipad [TS]

  the ipad could really use us bc and it [TS]

  wouldn't make a lot of sense it wouldn't [TS]

  be very apple style to still keep [TS]

  lightning on there they could just [TS]

  replace that we are already not using [TS]

  lightning for much else besides charging [TS]

  like it's not being used for a whole lot [TS]

  more by most people than just charging [TS]

  your phone and they're already pushing [TS]

  things like bluetooth for a lot of [TS]

  peripherals for audio output and things [TS]

  like that so and and of course then also [TS]

  you look at the mac and the end the mac [TS]

  you know if you have us bc on both [TS]

  things everything shares the same [TS]

  peripherals everything shares the same [TS]

  cables you can charge them everywhere we [TS]

  even with the android device cables you [TS]

  can use all the devices for android [TS]

  right now that are made by companies [TS]

  like Sony that like if sony has to pick [TS]

  between making something for lightning [TS]

  or make something for us bc for android [TS]

  phones they pick android because they [TS]

  are there more of an android focus [TS]

  company there's lots of companies like [TS]

  that we're like you kind of have to like [TS]

  when you pick teams like you see like [TS]

  some of the headphones like there are [TS]

  some USBC headphones now for android [TS]

  phones [TS]

  and there are some Lightning headphones [TS]

  for iPhones and usually the same [TS]

  headphone isn't available in both like [TS]

  you kind of have to pick and it sucks [TS]

  having this like this format war really [TS]

  going on between these companies in [TS]

  these different ecosystems where you [TS]

  can't use the same headphones between [TS]

  two different devices wouldn't it be [TS]

  great if you could just have one [TS]

  standard and USBC is good enough and [TS]

  it's going to be good enough quite some [TS]

  time we're not going to have to change [TS]

  cables again in like three years from [TS]

  now it's going to be a while and it [TS]

  would be amazing to have that now there [TS]

  is one other part of this that is worth [TS]

  pointing out and that is the other end [TS]

  of the cable the end that plugs into the [TS]

  power brick or the computer and if the [TS]

  case may be I think personally I think [TS]

  it's more likely that this rumor has [TS]

  been misunderstood and that the more [TS]

  likely outcome here is that Apple's not [TS]

  changing the phone to us bc but they're [TS]

  just going to ship it in the box with a [TS]

  USBC cable that plugs into USB see brick [TS]

  but that's still going to have lightning [TS]

  on the phone and that is way more likely [TS]

  that's totally that's totally what I [TS]

  thought and I think that's so much more [TS]

  boring of a rumor so that's why I'm like [TS]

  I don't want to talk about that because [TS]

  it's like all right fine like all you [TS]

  can do for that one is get angry about [TS]

  the fact that now you have no place to [TS]

  chip plug in your charging cable but [TS]

  that would make such perfect sense along [TS]

  with everything we have but but why is [TS]

  that a story that's not a Wall Street [TS]

  Journal caliber story like because who [TS]

  you know who cares whatever I really [TS]

  hope that's not it and the thing is in [TS]

  many ways having us bc and the charger [TS]

  end is actually worse than having us be [TS]

  a and the charger end because I as I [TS]

  rented on Twitter earlier like basically [TS]

  like the entire world right now has tons [TS]

  of infrastructure in place that has USB [TS]

  a ports everywhere for people to chart [TS]

  people to plug their phones into to [TS]

  charge them with and this isn't just [TS]

  like the phone owner having to buy a new [TS]

  power brick or you know having to use a [TS]

  different one that comes in the box and [TS]

  throw other old ones this is like again [TS]

  it's like airplanes cars hotels like all [TS]

  is different yeah luggage all these [TS]

  different places where you have us be a [TS]

  ports those travel things that we all [TS]

  have with like 12 USB a ports on them [TS]

  you take the hotel so you can charge all [TS]

  families devices with you now there's [TS]

  nothing to say that all those vices [TS]

  won't also convert to us bc at some [TS]

  point it's just [TS]

  the question of if you're changing the [TS]

  non phone end of the cable which is what [TS]

  we're talking about now even though it's [TS]

  boring if you're changing the non phone [TS]

  end of the cable is now the right time [TS]

  to change away from a because what [TS]

  you're not gaining much except for the [TS]

  Ogam you're gaining is uniform sanity [TS]

  with an apples line where you no longer [TS]

  have the embarrassing situation where [TS]

  you buy a macbook pro in an iphone and [TS]

  you can't charge them at each other but [TS]

  that's it that's all you get out of it [TS]

  yeah and so like you know it would be [TS]

  fine to have to have us bc to see as the [TS]

  main thing or see the lightning as the [TS]

  main thing that would be fine but i [TS]

  think see the lightning as the cable [TS]

  that comes the phone and as a thing the [TS]

  most people have is actually less [TS]

  convenient now and for the foreseeable [TS]

  future then ada lightning would be [TS]

  because there are so many a ports [TS]

  everywhere in the world that people [TS]

  already have installed or bought or [TS]

  everything else and it goes way beyond [TS]

  just buying a new power brick and it [TS]

  goes into things like buying a new car [TS]

  or reef or retrofitting airplanes and [TS]

  like those are things that just don't [TS]

  happen very often so we're going to have [TS]

  us be a ports as like the new power [TS]

  outlet for phones for a long time to [TS]

  come and you can't adapt a USB a port to [TS]

  have a USBC cable plugged into it you [TS]

  can go the other direction with all [TS]

  these little wonderful nine dollar [TS]

  adapters and apple sells but you can't [TS]

  go the other way you can't plug a USB [TS]

  see device into USB a port it violates [TS]

  the USB spec because as lots of weird [TS]

  things that can go wrong if you do it [TS]

  wrong and lots of like weird [TS]

  combinations they didn't want to allow [TS]

  with like what do you do with the [TS]

  massive amount of power on these pins [TS]

  and things like that and so that [TS]

  direction can't be like legally adapted [TS]

  by the USB spec and for very good [TS]

  reasons that are probably likely to [TS]

  change so if you're gonna have a cable [TS]

  that you're going to want to plug into [TS]

  whatever you find as you travel or go [TS]

  throughout the world or in turn out of [TS]

  your car wherever else you're probably [TS]

  going to want a whatever the phone has [TS]

  lightning your USB c 2 USB a and then [TS]

  maybe have a dongle with your laptop's [TS]

  you can plug it in there sometimes you [TS]

  want to save yourself some email yeah go [TS]

  you have to tell them that you know that [TS]

  those connectors that go from a to c you [TS]

  have to tell you have to say that yes i [TS]

  know there are connected I know you can [TS]

  go on lots of places and buy one from [TS]

  some kind of no-name brand but there's a [TS]

  reason why there aren't that many of [TS]

  them and why you don't see people like [TS]

  Apple selling [TS]

  because they're bad bad things can [TS]

  happen please don't use them so speaking [TS]

  of saving email I forgot to mention that [TS]

  i do have a modern Apple TV in the house [TS]

  and that is us pc would either of you [TS]

  care to wager guess how many times I've [TS]

  plug to USC a USBC cable into that Apple [TS]

  TV isn't that just a diagnostic port I [TS]

  don't think it's like supposed to be a [TS]

  user no it's it's it's for diagnostic [TS]

  Janet's for developers like when i [TS]

  install provenance the emulator oh yeah [TS]

  it's you know similar to how you plug in [TS]

  a phone to run devices or to run apps [TS]

  that you right from xcode onto the phone [TS]

  through USB same thing with the Apple TV [TS]

  you plug it into the USB port and it [TS]

  becomes an output device for xcode you [TS]

  can run stuff on speaking of us bc and [TS]

  then gender switch has us bc which is [TS]

  out soon and has someone tweeted earlier [TS]

  today that if you plug a nintendo switch [TS]

  into a macbook pro the switch charges [TS]

  the laptop not the other way around yeah [TS]

  that's pretty great in the world of [TS]

  ubiquitous connectors it is kind of a [TS]

  weird situation because like we have the [TS]

  it's kind of based on size that's like [TS]

  it you expect if you're using your [TS]

  laptop and you're like oh my phones low [TS]

  i'm going to plug it into my laptop [TS]

  that's the thing like we've all done [TS]

  right you fully expect that when you [TS]

  plug your phone into your laptop the [TS]

  laptop will charge your phone the phone [TS]

  wont charge your laptop and why do you [TS]

  think that well because the batteries in [TS]

  the lap and the laptop is bigger i guess [TS]

  but when you do it with the switch i [TS]

  guess they don't know how big they are [TS]

  like a little dog that thinks it's the [TS]

  big dog it's like i got your neck here's [TS]

  some juice take this i don't know who [TS]

  knows it could be just the mac think [TS]

  it's being charged and it actually isn't [TS]

  because i don't understand why the [TS]

  switch would output charge or anything [TS]

  but in in this world of ubiquitous USB [TS]

  see that our future world where [TS]

  everything has USB seaports it can be [TS]

  confusing as to what the actual [TS]

  relationship between devices with [TS]

  batteries and then will be when you plug [TS]

  them into each other and i'm sure [TS]

  they're part of the standard is like for [TS]

  that but they probably just didn't quite [TS]

  do it right or something they are like [TS]

  again why the hell this is switch [TS]

  charging anything i don't think there [TS]

  are any peripherals that plug into the [TS]

  switch and derive power from it so who [TS]

  knows yeah what do its various external [TS]

  control like the the pro controller what [TS]

  are those are those all just wireless [TS]

  with their own chargers or what i would [TS]

  guess so I mean though all existing game [TS]

  console controls i have used one of the [TS]

  terrible micro USB things maybe the the [TS]

  switch pro controller has a USB see i [TS]

  wouldn't know because i don't have a [TS]

  pre-order for it [TS]

  I'm working on that by the way so [TS]

  everybody knows i do have orders i do [TS]

  now have pre-orders for the switch and [TS]

  for the zelda game that i want thanks to [TS]

  some very helpful fans of the show so [TS]

  far still no pro controller you're going [TS]

  to tell me at some point how I'm [TS]

  supposed to get a pro controller when i [TS]

  get my switch also can i buy the games i [TS]

  heard that Pete went when I mention that [TS]

  I had these games in my amazon cart [TS]

  ready to pre-order i got a number of [TS]

  helping people saying why don't I just [TS]

  buy a giant SD card and download them is [TS]

  that a thing I can do yeah but like the [TS]

  only reason i want the zelda it's like [TS]

  the special edition that comes with a [TS]

  bunch of little tchotchkes and stuff you [TS]

  know and it comes with a soundtrack CD i [TS]

  would throw all that away or I'd mail to [TS]

  you exactly so so if you don't care [TS]

  about that I'm pretty sure every single [TS]

  game is use downloadable and the storage [TS]

  on the switch itself is not that big so [TS]

  everyone's telling you to buy an SD card [TS]

  but I think if you just get the switch [TS]

  and just want to play zelda you can just [TS]

  get it and then download zelda and play [TS]

  it and the digit of the story speaking [TS]

  of switch about the zelda carts have you [TS]

  seen pictures of how big the little the [TS]

  switch cartridges are no like they're [TS]

  really small like they're not as small [TS]

  as like the Micro Micro SD cards but [TS]

  they're smaller than you think they are [TS]

  and that poses a problem because like [TS]

  what if kids find these little games and [TS]

  stick them in their mouth swallow them [TS]

  or do something else bad with them right [TS]

  so Nintendo solution to this was to coat [TS]

  the cartridges they sell with a very [TS]

  very bad tasting substance so people are [TS]

  now licking antenna switch Carter that's [TS]

  the backstory i had seen people say oh [TS]

  yes they really do taste like garbage I [TS]

  didn't know what the back story was [TS]

  though yeah that's that's what I've [TS]

  heard it's a plausible theory because it [TS]

  is it is like kind of a you know a [TS]

  swallowing choking hazard they're small [TS]

  enough and they're going to be around [TS]

  kids like because you know it's not it's [TS]

  not like that there you're not worried [TS]

  about it kids swallowing the sim card [TS]

  from your phone because kids aren't [TS]

  playing with the sim card in your phone [TS]

  but kids will be around these loose [TS]

  cartridges for the switch or they you [TS]

  know bring a bunch of them in the back [TS]

  of the car with them and play them on a [TS]

  car trip and stuff and they're you know [TS]

  younger sibling gets ahold of them and [TS]

  so apparently they taste terrible wait [TS]

  so I sort of question all right so so I [TS]

  used to bite my nails and one of the [TS]

  ways i stopped was i got one of those [TS]

  like horrible tasting nail polish things [TS]

  same theory and yeah however the one of [TS]

  the shortcomings of that is that it [TS]

  would like rub off on like [TS]

  preparing or like anything anything that [TS]

  I touched would taste horrible and so if [TS]

  you like handle a switch cartridge and [TS]

  you can make a sandwich it like is it [TS]

  going to rub off at all are you gonna [TS]

  taste that so I have to say that this is [TS]

  the internet and I've just read some [TS]

  tweets so for all I know this is totally [TS]

  false and people just got some weird [TS]

  foul tasting stuff on their switch [TS]

  cartridges but i will say that now [TS]

  assuming the story is true i would think [TS]

  that the coding they put in these [TS]

  cartridges would have some of the same [TS]

  problems as the nail buying stuff one [TS]

  that it would eventually be able to wear [TS]

  off or be sucked off as very determined [TS]

  nail biters know well that if you really [TS]

  if you really want to go to town you can [TS]

  a build up a tolerance to and be [TS]

  eventually remove that substance stuff [TS]

  it I quit with one application but [TS]

  that's how bad it was you're you're not [TS]

  as a terminus on some little children [TS]

  yeah it I can tell you from personal [TS]

  experience with people my family who I [TS]

  will not name who are not me that it is [TS]

  possible to if you are stubborn enough [TS]

  to get rid of stuff and to like you said [TS]

  that like will it come off on your hands [TS]

  I think it has to necessarily come off [TS]

  your hands if your hands are wet because [TS]

  if it doesn't come off on your hands [TS]

  when they're wet it also won't come off [TS]

  on your tongue on you right and so I [TS]

  think those are real things but what I'm [TS]

  hoping is that cartridges don't get [TS]

  handled much under normal circumstances [TS]

  and the people's hands are not wet [TS]

  enough to pull off the stuff again [TS]

  assuming this entire story is true but [TS]

  all we know is that when any of us gets [TS]

  it or encounters a nintendo switch [TS]

  cartridge is incumbent upon us as part [TS]

  of the homework for the show to like it [TS]

  you just give me a really good reason to [TS]

  just download all my games and not ever [TS]

  buy one well you have to get one to like [TS]

  you have to tips gonna want to look at [TS]

  that i just have to look Maya SD cards [TS]

  and see if that has the same coding [TS]

  that's right you need to ABX test this [TS]

  oh my god we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  betterment to learn more visit [TS]

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  investing made better ah anyway oh I [TS]

  think what the thing that bothers me [TS]

  about the iphone USBC thing is if the [TS]

  USBC is on the device itself is on the [TS]

  iphone what technical thing does that [TS]

  solve like yes I understand that there's [TS]

  a consistency with the rest of like the [TS]

  laptop line but what does that actually [TS]

  do for an iphone that makes the iphone [TS]

  itself better don't we get the advantage [TS]

  of dedicated analog audio pins so that [TS]

  we don't need the deck and the things [TS]

  anymore and we could have cheap [TS]

  headphones to connect to us bc or limas [TS]

  remembering this both USBC add lighting [TS]

  have have ways to do that however we [TS]

  also did find that in the little apple [TS]

  dongle is a little tiny back because dax [TS]

  costs nothing and it's not a very good [TS]

  one but it doesn't matter for most [TS]

  people for what they're using it's fine [TS]

  sorry that's a potential advantage that [TS]

  you could get if Apple decides to take [TS]

  advantage of it and if they're it may I [TS]

  have no idea if there are any existing [TS]

  headphones that take analog audio [TS]

  signals and have instead of a you know a [TS]

  regular headphone jack come and they [TS]

  have a USB see one but in theory that's [TS]

  one there's also you know techno tech [TS]

  buys the thing with the bendy pins that [TS]

  we talked about like who knows how big a [TS]

  problem that is but it stands to reason [TS]

  that it is better to have the parts that [TS]

  eventually fatigue or bend or wear out [TS]

  on the cable you can throw away and not [TS]

  inside the device so that's another tech [TS]

  advantage yeah I guess I guess I just [TS]

  there's nothing that you guys have said [TS]

  or that I can think of that makes me [TS]

  think oh this is a technical problem [TS]

  that's being solved with us bc it is [TS]

  worth that that juice is worth [TS]

  squeeze of pissing off the entire world [TS]

  for another for another cable change or [TS]

  another port don't you think you guys [TS]

  not agree what you both said that you [TS]

  thought people will be angry but I [TS]

  totally think people will be less angry [TS]

  than 30 pin delighting even though [TS]

  30-pin was 30 10 years old I think [TS]

  they'll be less angry about this because [TS]

  it's a switch to the standard because [TS]

  yes you're going to be grumbly you're [TS]

  assuming though that people have us bc [TS]

  devices i am cheap and i don't buy [TS]

  expensive things terribly often but i [TS]

  always keep up-to-date on on iphones and [TS]

  ipads whatnot and and I don't have a you [TS]

  like I said the only USBC device i have [TS]

  is an apple TV that I've never plugged [TS]

  USBC into they'd be a little bit ahead [TS]

  of the curve like I agree people don't [TS]

  have but I think every story about this [TS]

  would be Apple concedes or like the most [TS]

  negative story you can have a apple [TS]

  finally concedes and does what everyone [TS]

  else does Apple finally gets in line [TS]

  ever finally does the industry standard [TS]

  thing I think that would be the negative [TS]

  Apple spin on these stories and you know [TS]

  again with the European regulations [TS]

  requiring whatever was mini USB and [TS]

  probably going to require us bc like i [TS]

  think that's the spin on the story and [TS]

  yes it's like oh I don't care what the [TS]

  hell'd standards I got a houseful of [TS]

  freaking lightning cables and I [TS]

  worthless to me right like people will [TS]

  be angry but I think the story will be [TS]

  Apple gets in line with everybody else [TS]

  and that will soften the blow again I [TS]

  think if you're going to do that though [TS]

  you wait another year or something like [TS]

  that because everyone is still sensitive [TS]

  to this because I still within the last [TS]

  month have heard people whining about [TS]

  lightning ports and and so if you're [TS]

  going to make this jump you make the [TS]

  jump where it's when it's it's it's [TS]

  preposterous that Apple isn't on us bc [TS]

  right now I really member though do you [TS]

  want the little ice yeah because again [TS]

  at the thing that I can't get past is [TS]

  it's not solving any technical problem [TS]

  that I'm aware of maybe on like an iPad [TS]

  maybe if you wanted to plug in say an [TS]

  external display which I guess you can [TS]

  do that with the hdmi cable on a phone [TS]

  or pad anyway I've had anyway so yeah [TS]

  I'm failing to see what technical [TS]

  problem that makes the iPhone itself [TS]

  better what technical problem are they [TS]

  solving by doing this because otherwise [TS]

  why bother well we also don't know how [TS]

  pervasive the Lightning connect [TS]

  your problems are like I don't know how [TS]

  many people do we know who have had this [TS]

  problem I I know two people Marco and [TS]

  Merlin right who have both had problems [TS]

  with the contacts you know the bendy [TS]

  little bits coming out of thing and then [TS]

  scorching the little connectors I [TS]

  believe what it marketed you get your [TS]

  phone replaced because of that yeah I [TS]

  did and then Merlin I don't know if you [TS]

  got anything replaced but he had like we [TS]

  were only the hardware virus because [TS]

  once one of the little bendy pieces of [TS]

  metal doesn't contact with the shiny [TS]

  gold bits on the Lightning connector and [TS]

  starts arcing it can cause a little [TS]

  Bernie spot there and that makes the [TS]

  connection even worse and more working [TS]

  and so on and so forth and now you have [TS]

  a lightning connector that has a little [TS]

  Bernie spot on it and if you put that [TS]

  lightning connector into another device [TS]

  now you have poor contact between the [TS]

  Bernie spot and the little bendy metal [TS]

  thing and it causes that to arc and so [TS]

  it's like it's like a hardware virus as [TS]

  you plug this this plug into a bunch of [TS]

  other devices eventually they all get [TS]

  this little burning spot on the same [TS]

  place and that's bad and is this just a [TS]

  problem that is really rare and esoteric [TS]

  and really much more much smaller than [TS]

  the grand scheme of things than Apple's [TS]

  bad strain relief I don't know but I do [TS]

  know two people and it did cause a [TS]

  warranty replacement for sure and at [TS]

  least one of them that i think would [TS]

  fall into the category of potentially a [TS]

  tech problem that the USBC is solving [TS]

  numbers are it's hard it's hard to know [TS]

  without numbers you know I guess I just [TS]

  but but here again that's like that's [TS]

  solving a problem for Apple that that [TS]

  your average consumer even I don't [TS]

  really care about what Marco didn't want [TS]

  to get his phones well maybe did because [TS]

  of this the microphone thing but like [TS]

  people don't want to have to bring [TS]

  anything again it's not right I'm does [TS]

  USBC saw the lint problem that's another [TS]

  sort of anecdotal thing we don't have [TS]

  numbers for but like how many people [TS]

  have you heard about like my thing would [TS]

  in charge and I had to get out the [TS]

  dentist gear and start pulling out the [TS]

  little lint balls or cat hair from [TS]

  inside the thing or I brought to an [TS]

  apple store and they had to do it for me [TS]

  my parents have had this problem where [TS]

  they had to have lint pulled out of [TS]

  their thing pulled out of their lighting [TS]

  connector by like an apple store person [TS]

  right does USBC suffer from that as much [TS]

  as lightning I have no idea but that is [TS]

  another potential tech problem not just [TS]

  for Apple for warranty or present people [TS]

  don't want their crap to break and have [TS]

  to bring it to the store either [TS]

  especially it's so hard to get an [TS]

  appointment and it's annoying to be in [TS]

  there [TS]

  I don't know I just I feel like if if i [TS]

  were to wager a guess I think it's what [TS]

  we ought our initial interpretation was [TS]

  which is it's going to the cable [TS]

  included in the box maybe lightning to [TS]

  USB see that falls down though because [TS]

  of what marco was describing about how [TS]

  the entirety of power charging in the [TS]

  world is all done via USB a I think [TS]

  Apple this is one of the old school [TS]

  things where I would say would Apple do [TS]

  this one hundred percent I totally [TS]

  believe Apple would would go lightning [TS]

  to USB see despite everything we just [TS]

  said and we all agree on the USBA is [TS]

  more common why would Apple do it [TS]

  because they'd be like this is our [TS]

  connector for our stuff and our power [TS]

  bricks and our computers and by the way [TS]

  we sell the other one for a reasonable [TS]

  price so buy more peripherals from us [TS]

  and you know buy more adapters and it's [TS]

  fine i 100% believe Apple to do that [TS]

  it's just hard to sell tell from this [TS]

  rumor and speaking of hardware virus I [TS]

  hope this rumor is a different kind of [TS]

  hardware virus and that even as if Apple [TS]

  is either doing the boring thing or not [TS]

  doing anything and they just come with [TS]

  plain old USB a to lightning connectors [TS]

  like every other thing the fact of the [TS]

  story is out there that I'm you know [TS]

  every tech site and the wall street [TS]

  journal in podcast and everybody are [TS]

  talking about it and it seems to me [TS]

  collectively slowly convincing ourselves [TS]

  to this would be a good idea it would be [TS]

  great if somewhere it out there like no [TS]

  Wall Street Journal that's not what you [TS]

  were supposed to be leaking at all it's [TS]

  just a bit too much the other end of the [TS]

  cake and then come the time when when [TS]

  the new iphone is released we're all [TS]

  disappointed that it doesn't have USB [TS]

  see Apple be like that wouldn't away [TS]

  from us so it's like a hardware mind [TS]

  virus Wow yeah I don't know what to make [TS]

  of it like it wouldn't entirely [TS]

  surprised me at the phone itself had a [TS]

  USBC port on it but I just I keep coming [TS]

  back to and I can't get past what is it [TS]

  really doing for the device like what [TS]

  what problem is that solving for the [TS]

  device I'm not saying there isn't one [TS]

  it's making a lot of things more [TS]

  convenient and in in the very very [TS]

  likely future that we're going to have [TS]

  because you know android is you know [TS]

  doing this so we're going to have all [TS]

  these USBC cables out there in the world [TS]

  it's going to be very very convenient if [TS]

  we also if we not only can just have one [TS]

  cable but then you can plug in your [TS]

  iphone to any of these things anywhere [TS]

  that's going to be incredibly it's also [TS]

  keeping it for just people who travel [TS]

  with an iphone and the laptop and [TS]

  you can have one charger that you kind [TS]

  of switch between them as needed or you [TS]

  can swap cables between them if what if [TS]

  you forget one of the cables or one of [TS]

  them goes bad or you only have one long [TS]

  table and one short cable and you need [TS]

  to flip where they are for a certain [TS]

  arrangement that you have when you're [TS]

  traveling or something like there's all [TS]

  sorts of like everyday practical [TS]

  advantages that this could bring in a [TS]

  world where everything else is us bc and [TS]

  i think it's very clear we are heading [TS]

  towards that world like the rubber [TS]

  everything else is USBC that's happening [TS]

  Apple is leading the charge with the max [TS]

  like so that's obviously happening it's [TS]

  here like if you've bought a new macbook [TS]

  pro in the last five months you already [TS]

  are in this world at least partially and [TS]

  as they update the imax hopefully in a [TS]

  few weeks and everything else like you [TS]

  know over the next couple years like if [TS]

  you buy a new mac it is almost certainly [TS]

  going to be all USB see so again like [TS]

  this world is here this is happening [TS]

  this is already a thing there's all [TS]

  sorts of great accessories for us bc now [TS]

  like think of all the all that like [TS]

  standard you know just how like iOS has [TS]

  had support for standard USB devices [TS]

  like like standard hid things standard [TS]

  sound devices things that without any [TS]

  drivers or anything for a long time now [TS]

  but in order to plug them in you had to [TS]

  get one of those like lightning to USB [TS]

  camera connection kit adapters and this [TS]

  would actually allow the phone to have [TS]

  like a standard port that is always [TS]

  there that can support a whole bunch of [TS]

  new devices that can make you feel more [TS]

  useful in certain like specialized [TS]

  scenarios so there's like there's the [TS]

  everyday practicality of all these [TS]

  different charge cables that are going [TS]

  to be everywhere there's carrying it [TS]

  with you in a bag full of a USBC laptop [TS]

  with all the USBC cables you're going to [TS]

  have for that not having to have two [TS]

  separate sets of cables with difference [TS]

  in two connectors and everything it's [TS]

  just tons of everyday practicality plus [TS]

  all this edge case power that you could [TS]

  have by having this device be a member [TS]

  of the USBC ecosystem a first class [TS]

  member have it be a USBC host device [TS]

  that can have other USBC things put into [TS]

  it and have that just work in addition [TS]

  to being charged and everything and [TS]

  eventually have Thunderbolt 3 or [TS]

  Thunderbolt 7 on your phone's right [TS]

  maybe I mean they probably they wouldn't [TS]

  probably even need that because USB 3 is [TS]

  already really fast for most things a [TS]

  phone would be transferring over an [TS]

  external bus you would do it for a video [TS]

  outline on [TS]

  the 27 inch iPad pro so you could have [TS]

  two of them next to each other actually [TS]

  it's pretty cool but yeah yeah and again [TS]

  and then I'll also think of the ipad [TS]

  we're like if they want to bring the [TS]

  ipad forward in a big way one of the [TS]

  ways to do that would be to give it a [TS]

  USB port of some of some kind and of [TS]

  course these days that would be a USBC [TS]

  port and if you have that why would you [TS]

  keep lightning there and if you're [TS]

  getting rid of lightning there might as [TS]

  well also get lightning on the phone and [TS]

  also be a lot more comfortable with the [TS]

  European Union in the process so there's [TS]

  lots of reasons to do it and I mean [TS]

  Casey so you know as and I think the one [TS]

  of us who's who's most cool on this idea [TS]

  would you at least agree that if they [TS]

  were starting clean today with no with [TS]

  no legacy baggage would USBC be the [TS]

  right choice Oh without question and you [TS]

  know sitting here thinking about it um I [TS]

  I feel like the only way this makes that [TS]

  that this feels better to me is if [TS]

  inductive charging really is a thing [TS]

  right because although i plug in phone's [TS]

  constantly because i'm a developer I [TS]

  like Aaron for example she the only time [TS]

  she ever plugs her phone into anything [TS]

  it's just the wall to charge it and yeah [TS]

  it would be kind of a pain in the butt [TS]

  if she had to bring her like charging [TS]

  pad everywhere she goes in order to [TS]

  charge your phone but that makes it [TS]

  sting a little bit less I feel like I [TS]

  don't know why maybe now that I'm saying [TS]

  that out loud it seems bananas to me [TS]

  because it's really no different because [TS]

  you know if it's USB see them then we [TS]

  would have to bring that specific USBC [TS]

  cable because it would be the only one [TS]

  in the house but if it's an inductive [TS]

  charging pad suddenly that's better [TS]

  because I don't know why but it just [TS]

  feels better to me even though I admit [TS]

  that that makes no sense so maybe maybe [TS]

  that's the fix is inductive charging is [TS]

  the thing since it's wireless and apple [TS]

  hates wires and you know USBC for like [TS]

  you know Apple TV style if you need it I [TS]

  don't know I I think that's a charging [TS]

  is probably a separate thing like it's [TS]

  the kind of thing where like if it ever [TS]

  makes sense to do in an iphone which so [TS]

  far it seems like the the uses that have [TS]

  been out there in the world so far have [TS]

  not been very compelling for lots of [TS]

  different reasons some of which seem [TS]

  insurmountable but [TS]

  we'll see if that ever changes but [TS]

  things like the horrible efficiency of [TS]

  it and the incredible close proximity [TS]

  need to have to the charging device but [TS]

  anyway or the pad whatever it is but I [TS]

  see this is separate things you know [TS]

  like you know it's it's very high and [TS]

  even like Apple I said this [TS]

  multiplication i think phil has it made [TS]

  a few comments to this degree you know [TS]

  you have a wire you can plug this into [TS]

  charge it's no big deal like wireless [TS]

  charging sounds great if you think about [TS]

  like oh I could just walk around [TS]

  everywhere my whole house my whole work [TS]

  my the whole world outside maybe and my [TS]

  phone just always charged from the air [TS]

  but that probably isn't what it would be [TS]

  it would probably be like you just have [TS]

  these wireless charging pads like on [TS]

  your desk and stuff like that isn't that [TS]

  much better than a cable oh that's all [TS]

  it's pretty pretty better than a cable i [TS]

  think i think if you just have think of [TS]

  the area in everybody's house where they [TS]

  dump all their devices to charge in the [TS]

  rat's nest of wires that they have there [TS]

  if there was just a nice pad and I could [TS]

  just pile things on top of it and that's [TS]

  assuming they just go with like [TS]

  inductive charging with this type of [TS]

  thing if they go with the what was that [TS]

  company called the wasn't Steve Pearlman [TS]

  the onlive guy I forget anyway the the [TS]

  beamforming when I kind of tech that [TS]

  could be used to deliver power P [TS]

  something that's the thing that you're [TS]

  talking to said I'm wandering around my [TS]

  house when my thing is charging and that [TS]

  is way way way slower but even if it's [TS]

  just like within the same room like [TS]

  imagine putting your phone on your [TS]

  nightstand to charge at night but not [TS]

  plugging it in and not having to put it [TS]

  on a pad and not having your brain Sully [TS]

  microwave by the thing that's near yeah [TS]

  that's a little concerning to be honest [TS]

  and then my phones you can scratch it by [TS]

  the by my nightstand like I have a [TS]

  little dock it's great see I think I [TS]

  think the real reason why dog industry [TS]

  yeah yeah I know I think the real reason [TS]

  why Apple is going to switch the USBC on [TS]

  the phone is that I just got these [TS]

  awesome studio need docs for everything [TS]

  and they're really nice so now whenever [TS]

  i buy new docks last time when they [TS]

  change the Lightning was right after i [TS]

  bought the elevation dock and so now [TS]

  that i bought new docks finally i [TS]

  finally replaced my elevation docks [TS]

  after five years or what however long [TS]

  it's been now Apple is going to change [TS]

  away from lightning and maybe buy all [TS]

  new docks well the good news for the [TS]

  Kickstarter for [TS]

  iOS device Doc's made of like you know [TS]

  fancy burled walnut and all sorts of [TS]

  other things I have the good news is [TS]

  that once wireless charging is here you [TS]

  can still sell those same docs it's even [TS]

  easier because they don't have to even [TS]

  charge it's just basically like a little [TS]

  stand for your phone like a little home [TS]

  for it just it props it up and makes it [TS]

  look cute because in the end I mean I [TS]

  know you think that IO is a charging [TS]

  dock it's very important that it charted [TS]

  in the end it's a little stand for your [TS]

  phone it's a nice stand for my phone I [TS]

  know I'm just saying like that industry [TS]

  will not be decimated by wireless [TS]

  charging in fact that industry will be [TS]

  freed from having to worry about the [TS]

  silly electronics and they can [TS]

  concentrate where they really care about [TS]

  which is fine materials and [TS]

  craftsmanship and so on and so forth and [TS]

  you can use all the money you're saving [TS]

  by not buying two sets of cables for [TS]

  everything and just dump it all into [TS]

  docs that's right yea Bwana made from [TS]

  what is your little heavy cylinder made [TS]

  out of tungsten tungsten yeah thanks to [TS]

  our three sponsors this week Casper [TS]

  betterment and square space and we will [TS]

  see you next week now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

  accidental oh it was accidental John [TS]

  didn't [TS]

  research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

  him cuz it was accidental and it was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes at adp FM and if more into twitter [TS]

  you can follow them at cas eyl ISS so [TS]

  that's Casey list and a our CEO a RM can [TS]

  t marco arment SI r kc us a Syracuse [TS]

  ah what is going on my mouse every great [TS]

  once in a while this happens my beloved [TS]

  magic mouse is like lagging to hell and [TS]

  it just just wants to be harpooned yep [TS]

  it happens to me too you see me tweeting [TS]

  about that a few days ago oh yeah you're [TS]

  right i never i don't think i think i [TS]

  told you it never happens to me in fact [TS]

  but I lied I'm a darn dirty liar that [TS]

  that just happened to me and it's not [TS]

  the first time it's happened it appears [TS]

  to happen to everybody who has any apple [TS]

  bluetooth pointing device it happens to [TS]

  the track pads and the mice it happens [TS]

  to the old mice that use double a [TS]

  batteries and the new one that have the [TS]

  rechargeable harpoon thing it happens [TS]

  whether you're at a high battery level [TS]

  or a low battery level there seems to be [TS]

  very little correlation to any of these [TS]

  factors it just seems to happen to all [TS]

  of apple bluetooth devices so it's [TS]

  probably an issue with either all [TS]

  Bluetooth devices or at least apples [TS]

  Bluetooth devices doesn't happen to my [TS]

  wired keyboard or my wired logitech [TS]

  mouse from 1992 oh you're so old never [TS]

  doesn't stutter doesn't need to be [TS]

  recharged now I the mac pro that you [TS]

  have i'm pretty sure bluetooth was [TS]

  optional do you have bluetooth on that I [TS]

  don't know let's go find out I think it [TS]

  was like I think it was like a 60-hour [TS]

  option turn bluetooth on there is a [TS]

  button that says that i think i can [TS]

  click it it is currently off so I'm [TS]

  gonna sue my head oh yeah the poor me do [TS]

  you have it I did not get the Wi-Fi [TS]

  option on this by the way he s I'm [TS]

  thinking of so my mac does not have [TS]

  Wi-Fi maybe on I wonder if the 2006 Mac [TS]

  Pro maybe Bluetooth option on that one [TS]

  and maybe there's only Wi-Fi on yours it [TS]

  might have an optional mine I might have [TS]

  I might have checked the bluetooth boxes [TS]

  and I'm like maybe I'll get bluetooth [TS]

  peripherals Here I am eight years later [TS]

  still no bluetooth peripherals hey what [TS]

  else there to talk about you talk more [TS]

  about the mac pro if you want hard pass [TS]

  and I gotta get mean Tim Cook said [TS]

  nothing again yeah that's why that's why [TS]

  it's not you know this is not even on [TS]

  the topic this because there's nothing [TS]

  to discuss cuz there was nothing said [TS]

  well I'll give my two cents that I [TS]

  already gave and slacked it to put this [TS]

  one to bed it's uh he was asked in to [TS]

  shareholders meeting about like you know [TS]

  pro hardware and all the stuff we always [TS]

  whine about and he gave the same kind of [TS]

  non-committal [TS]

  like oh you know where we have things [TS]

  coming for pros and we do care about [TS]

  them despite all our actions to the [TS]

  contrary but he didn't say I'm being [TS]

  sarcastic man but anyway he gave the [TS]

  same kind of an answer he did last time [TS]

  that we talked about the lettuce to [TS]

  believe that an imac pro is coming or [TS]

  something and there was some discussion [TS]

  about like all right it what's so bad [TS]

  about this like in the hierarchy of [TS]

  things that Tim Cook could have said or [TS]

  done in relation to that where does this [TS]

  fall and I feel like saying nothing [TS]

  would have still been worse it's I feel [TS]

  like at this point it when there's a [TS]

  problem that a bunch of people see like [TS]

  some people are cranky about pro mac [TS]

  hardware right saying nothing is the [TS]

  worst choice because that's just like it [TS]

  just makes people angry it's like you're [TS]

  ignoring them or you're bearing that in [TS]

  the same people want some kind of answer [TS]

  saying something boring and [TS]

  non-committal and vague that's basically [TS]

  like Apple saying we think we have [TS]

  something for you is better than nothing [TS]

  because at the very least it says all [TS]

  right well this whether Apple whether [TS]

  it's true or not Apple thinks they have [TS]

  something that we're going to like in [TS]

  the future and you know that's kind of [TS]

  vague but like it strings us along and [TS]

  then I feel like the best thing they [TS]

  could have done is give a strong [TS]

  definitive answer that acknowledges the [TS]

  acknowledges the issue and then comes to [TS]

  a conclusion and so that could be we [TS]

  hear your concerns what we've decided we [TS]

  don't want to be in the pearl hardware [TS]

  business anymore perfectly valid it puts [TS]

  a lot end to all of our whining right [TS]

  look is like well what's done is done [TS]

  you know we can yell them about it but [TS]

  least we have a definitive answer or [TS]

  they could say we've heard your concerns [TS]

  we realize who dropped the ball but we [TS]

  are going to rededicate ourselves to pro [TS]

  hardware they didn't say that either so [TS]

  we get that we get the middle one the [TS]

  vague answer that tells us nothing [TS]

  there's still better than nothing but is [TS]

  still much worse than Apple definitively [TS]

  coming down in one direction or another [TS]

  they don't have to announce new products [TS]

  they don't have to promise them they [TS]

  could have said you know they have to [TS]

  acknowledge the situation say we realize [TS]

  we've dropped the ball and either but [TS]

  we've decided together this market or we [TS]

  are going to rededicate ourselves and [TS]

  they didn't do either one of those [TS]

  things so it's business as usual I think [TS]

  you and I just have different [TS]

  definitions of what nothing means you [TS]

  think he didn't say nothing I think he [TS]

  did say nothing but well not because he [TS]

  I by not by not saying like we're sorry [TS]

  you feel that like remember [TS]

  Final Cut Pro 10 thing what they [TS]

  basically said with that was like we're [TS]

  sorry you feel this way big Final Cut [TS]

  Pro 10 is the future get used to it [TS]

  right so instead of saying we're sorry [TS]

  you're sad about the pearl hardware but [TS]

  we're not doing that anymore get used to [TS]

  it like but like what that what he was [TS]

  trying to say what he tries to say every [TS]

  time in this vague thing is like I know [TS]

  you're sad now and I will not [TS]

  acknowledge that your sadness is founded [TS]

  in anything I know you're sad now but we [TS]

  have some really great stuff coming in [TS]

  the future and he always says that for [TS]

  Tim it's a Tim Cook ism to say boy we [TS]

  have a great road map we have great [TS]

  things coming and he says it frequently [TS]

  in earnings calls for years and years [TS]

  he's been saying in earnings calls and [TS]

  if you look back on those earring calls [TS]

  and you try to say three years ago when [TS]

  he said that on the earnings call what [TS]

  was he talking about what product was [TS]

  he's always so jazzed he's like we have [TS]

  some great things coming we have amazing [TS]

  product line I think you're gonna be [TS]

  super duper impressed and we get all [TS]

  excited and then if you go forward three [TS]

  years like when he said that what was he [TS]

  even talking about like was he talking [TS]

  about the watch or was that was that [TS]

  like the new retina iPad Mini it you [TS]

  can't even tell what he was talking [TS]

  about even after the fact but he always [TS]

  says like hang in there guys just [TS]

  because you don't know that we're gonna [TS]

  do a thing trust me in the future we're [TS]

  gonna do a thing and you're gonna like [TS]

  it and I think that is materially [TS]

  different than literally saying nothing [TS]

  like you know not answering the question [TS]

  and it is also different than then [TS]

  actually definitively saying they are [TS]

  aren't going to going to rededicate [TS]

  themselves to the pro market let's see [TS]

  it's because you can't associate what he [TS]

  says anything even after the fact it [TS]

  basically means nothing because it can [TS]

  you can apply his words to whatever you [TS]

  want them to be and he knows that like [TS]

  it that it's a non-committal statement [TS]

  so if he says we have great things down [TS]

  the pipe and it isn't at all what you [TS]

  want then by that's hot but then like [TS]

  you know when later comes and the great [TS]

  things they release aren't what you want [TS]

  what it doesn't invalidate what he said [TS]

  it just then then they're just a new [TS]

  excusive well they made something new it [TS]

  just wasn't for you they know that's the [TS]

  fuck all right but what if they never [TS]

  made another thing that they even [TS]

  pretended was her pro people they never [TS]

  made an imac pro like because then we [TS]

  could call him on it but by him saying [TS]

  this it's it's clear that Apple thinks [TS]

  they have something that propia [TS]

  like they may be wrong no it's in the [TS]

  past but at the very least I think what [TS]

  this says is is them saying we are going [TS]

  to release a new mac that we think will [TS]

  appeal to pros and all of us can say [TS]

  cynically well you're probably wrong [TS]

  they probably won't appeal to pros [TS]

  because you wrote your track record here [TS]

  is crap but at least you think you have [TS]

  something a little appeals to pros which [TS]

  is more substantive than just saying [TS]

  vague we have something coming I mean it [TS]

  eventually build up to the point like he [TS]

  did right before the trashcan we're at [TS]

  that point they were like stay tuned for [TS]

  exciting new Pro hardware which we all [TS]

  thought was going to be in a mac pro and [TS]

  totally was a new mac pro and so we'll [TS]

  see if that it builds to that but I feel [TS]

  like what Tim Cook is saying on this [TS]

  harbourfront here's like we're going to [TS]

  introduce a product that we think people [TS]

  who like the old Mac Pro will like and [TS]

  we probably won't because it'll be [TS]

  online I pro but whatever that's what i [TS]

  think is coming that is even what he [TS]

  said it like what he said was like you [TS]

  know things for like pro markets and [TS]

  especially creative pros you know what [TS]

  Apple pitches for creative pros the ipad [TS]

  pro and the macbook pro everything Tim [TS]

  Cook said could be just in reference to [TS]

  the updated imax and iPad pros they're [TS]

  gonna launch in two weeks or whatever it [TS]

  is like that like that something like it [TS]

  doesn't mean anything I don't thought [TS]

  about that all right so if those are set [TS]

  like if if in a year there's been no [TS]

  motion on anything that Apple's even [TS]

  pitching as a Mac made for pros I think [TS]

  people will be angry and they'll come [TS]

  back at Cinco can say you didn't deliver [TS]

  on those things as opposed to his other [TS]

  we have this great road maps the problem [TS]

  is we could cite well they did release a [TS]

  lot of cool stuff and any of that stuff [TS]

  could have applied we just can't tell [TS]

  what the hell he was talking about but [TS]

  it's not as if they didn't deliver [TS]

  because every year Apple releases great [TS]

  new stuff somewhere it's just never to [TS]

  stop max right so I I think that if know [TS]

  if it really is just like the new iPads [TS]

  people will be like well that's not what [TS]

  we thought you were talking about it all [TS]

  and they'll be pissed about and they'll [TS]

  come back even angrier with the same [TS]

  question whereas if Apple releases an [TS]

  imac pro people like oh all right well I [TS]

  guess this is what he was talking about [TS]

  but surprise were not happy because we [TS]

  wanted a better Mac Pro my concern with [TS]

  with cooks remarks in this area and and [TS]

  the resulting products that come out of [TS]

  Apple is that especially because he [TS]

  specifically called out he's [TS]

  he's someone ones like you know cruisers [TS]

  especially creative pros and they keep [TS]

  referring to a creative force created [TS]

  for is it seems like apples image of [TS]

  what a creative pro is is somebody [TS]

  drawing with the pencil on an iPad and [TS]

  that's one type of creative pro but [TS]

  that's a very very small percentage of [TS]

  them and that's also an like creative [TS]

  pros aren't all pros and Apple used to [TS]

  really own the market for so many kinds [TS]

  of pros they've really owned those [TS]

  markets so well for such a long time and [TS]

  it seems like all the market share that [TS]

  they've like shaved off in recent years [TS]

  by just neglect or cutting off support [TS]

  or cutting off product lines or features [TS]

  or whatever else are almost all like the [TS]

  Pro users that had it you know more [TS]

  complex or higher end needs than [TS]

  somebody drawing on an iPad and it [TS]

  doesn't seem like it seems like Tim [TS]

  Cook's Apple just either doesn't care [TS]

  about the other kinds of pro work and [TS]

  needs that are out there or they [TS]

  fundamentally don't understand it both [TS]

  of which are scary possibilities to me [TS]

  but I think it's very clear that at [TS]

  least one of those is true just that [TS]

  mkbhd video where he was complaining [TS]

  about his mac pro you guys yeah I'd is [TS]

  basically saying like he's he's got like [TS]

  the old 12-core trashcan Mac Pro the old [TS]

  / current current yes the one you can [TS]

  still buy for like a thousand dollars [TS]

  and he uses Final Cut Pro to edit his [TS]

  videos and what he was basically saying [TS]

  is like people like why you even used in [TS]

  that crappy old Mac why'd you get like a [TS]

  fancy PC it was like well I like Final [TS]

  Cut for video editing I'm sure it's what [TS]

  he's used to and he's like I have [TS]

  plugged into the Final Cut that aren't [TS]

  available elsewhere and so on and so [TS]

  forth I think that's a good canary the [TS]

  whole Final Cut Pro think so aperture is [TS]

  gone right Final Cut Pro is kind of the [TS]

  last bastion of proneness like the video [TS]

  market right and it is currently being [TS]

  woefully under served by their the [TS]

  current trashcan and anything else I [TS]

  feel like I mean maybe maybe I'm wrong [TS]

  maybe people are editing entire movies [TS]

  on their macbook once and I'm just silly [TS]

  for thinking this but whatever mkbhd who [TS]

  does video for a living wants his mac [TS]

  pro maybe it's just cuz he's like a [TS]

  computer gear head like we are no no he [TS]

  actually needs it yeah but and he says [TS]

  that even despite that 12 core being old [TS]

  and creaky that he does still get better [TS]

  performance than he would with adobe [TS]

  premiere which is not an [TS]

  apples-to-apples comparison obviously [TS]

  that he does on a dormir on a fancy pc [TS]

  but up you know bomb eyes he just like [TS]

  Final Cut right if they drop final cut [TS]

  if they stop making it in the same way [TS]

  they stopped making aperture that will [TS]

  be an extremely strong signal because [TS]

  you're right Marco like what's left is [TS]

  it just people making artisanal sketches [TS]

  on virtual napkins is that it is that [TS]

  the only creative probe is even like [TS]

  real creator pro CD is freaking Adobe [TS]

  Illustrator like let's give your [TS]

  photoshop and illustrator is what they [TS]

  need to use to do their jobs and you [TS]

  know maybe like a page layout type of [TS]

  thing creative professionals like when [TS]

  they say that i would think of things [TS]

  like aperture hope not there anymore or [TS]

  lightroom because that's a mac [TS]

  application to write or things like [TS]

  Final Cut and premiere and so many [TS]

  markets like we again we've complained [TS]

  about so we get all of emails as a [TS]

  self-selecting people saying I work in [TS]

  this industry and I've watched my entire [TS]

  industry dump max as soon as they can [TS]

  switch all 2pcs because they realize [TS]

  that but doesn't care about them Apple [TS]

  makes final cut it's their own program [TS]

  presumably there is a team working on it [TS]

  right and they put a lot of effort into [TS]

  the Final Cut Pro 10 being a big leap [TS]

  over the other one and endured all the [TS]

  problems with that program and you know [TS]

  like like they as a company seem [TS]

  dedicated to resourcing and believing in [TS]

  that product in the same way that used [TS]

  to for aperture I suppose if they drop [TS]

  that then it will really be like alright [TS]

  Jim stop talking about professionals of [TS]

  any kind creative or otherwise because [TS]

  what the hell by the way on this mkbhd [TS]

  video you know what he says right before [TS]

  new Mac Pro obvious at my USB see ya yep [TS]

  well it's in the news it isn't the [TS]

  Newsies reading the same stories we are [TS]

  they up me wants us bc everywhere he's [TS]

  so much cooler than us that that's a [TS]

  pretty low bar I don't know he's pretty [TS]

  nerdy and you think he's cooler cuz he's [TS]

  young and handsome but he's pretty nerdy [TS]

  no I think I'm pretty sure he's cooler [TS]

  than us yeah I'm pretty sure he's [TS]

  considerate guy says it's a it's a low [TS]

  bar is he's cooler than Casey let's see [TS]

  well I don't know that's also a low bar [TS]

  that's [TS]

  if that's very flattering complimentary [TS]

  of you trying to try to put the the [TS]

  coolest among us to try to see if we can [TS]

  we can reach up the lever I mean the [TS]

  coolest among is definitely Casey and [TS]

  sorry Casey I think he's cool with a new [TS]

  so I think therefore that solves that [TS]

  solves the question right there I guess [TS]

  I guess you're right maybe if we can if [TS]

  we combine all three of our coolness [TS]

  then maybe we can maybe maybe all of us [TS]

  combined like Voltron it would still be [TS]

  I think it would still be a fight anyway [TS]

  coolest counts for nothing in this [TS]

  industry witness Bill Gates Steve [TS]

  Wozniak andy hertzfeld Bill Atkinson not [TS]

  cool people they're cooling the wrong [TS]

  way Bill Gates is cool in no ways but it [TS]

  is the is the antimatter of cool curing [TS]

  malaria not kids not carrying it you [TS]

  know what I mean [TS]