Cortex 47: Picking Up the Breadcrumbs


  we have a secret we have a secret that [TS]

  we've kept from our listeners gray we do [TS]

  it's not a big scandal I should be [TS]

  should we'd make it out to be a scandal [TS]

  no that's no that's no that's asking for [TS]

  trouble okay no scam that's asking for [TS]

  trouble no but we do have a secret the [TS]

  last two episodes of cortex were [TS]

  recorded back to bank mmm they were we [TS]

  are optimizing we were trying to [TS]

  optimize right trying to improve our [TS]

  work clothes all about were clear [TS]

  improvement on this show hmm so we [TS]

  recorded two episodes back to back now [TS]

  why did we do this you should be great I [TS]

  feel like you are trying to blame this [TS]

  all on me Mike I know I really looking [TS]

  for your insight into why we would [TS]

  undertake an experiment of this of this [TS]

  nature let's just say this is part of [TS]

  gray industries attempts at doing some [TS]

  experiments in time reorganization over [TS]

  2017 perhaps one could say redirecting [TS]

  how time is spent in ways big and in [TS]

  ways small so this this was a thing that [TS]

  we decided to try and what I was very [TS]

  curious to see is if anybody would [TS]

  notice if there was any suspicion not [TS]

  one person and he comes in the reddit [TS]

  nothing and i have to say i was i was [TS]

  pleased because to me listening to that [TS]

  show the second show that we recorded [TS]

  immediately after recording the first [TS]

  one I just kept thinking oh it's so [TS]

  obvious it's so obvious that this is [TS]

  recorded immediately after we make no [TS]

  reference to anything that's happened in [TS]

  time there were a few sections in there [TS]

  that I thought were a little weird we [TS]

  didn't follow up at all on the previous [TS]

  show and the previous show I think was a [TS]

  show that kind of begged for some [TS]

  follow-up like more than maybe any other [TS]

  show that we have ever done I'm really [TS]

  really begged for some kind of [TS]

  acknowledgment of like kind words from [TS]

  people but like no there was nothing [TS]

  because we immediately recorded it after [TS]

  the very first one and I have to say I [TS]

  was pretty pleased that nobody nobody [TS]

  caught us in the act of a double [TS]

  recording now I'll say this all the [TS]

  people that are gonna pop up in the [TS]

  reddit thread and be [TS]

  like oh I knew it I don't believe any of [TS]

  you not wanna be ya now feller leave you [TS]

  don't believe me cuz why didn't you say [TS]

  it don't believe you okay III don't [TS]

  believe it either it's one it's like a [TS]

  cognitive bias that is occurring that [TS]

  you're now going to remember that you [TS]

  thought it was obviously recorded at the [TS]

  same time but you didn't say anything [TS]

  it's like if you change bit rates on [TS]

  podcasts and people like oh I could [TS]

  totally tell but they don't say anything [TS]

  until after you've done it yeah I've [TS]

  been in that situation yeah he you up [TS]

  the bitrate no one complains no one [TS]

  notices but if you tell them in advance [TS]

  you'll hear howls of protest over there [TS]

  download limits on their cellular plans [TS]

  or whatever howdy yeah exactly how dare [TS]

  you uh but yeah so I think it was an [TS]

  interesting experiment the fact that [TS]

  nobody noticed I think makes it [TS]

  essentially a success yeah and I felt [TS]

  that it came out well as well I think we [TS]

  were above concerned that the episode [TS]

  wouldn't be very good because obviously [TS]

  it's like a mammoth recording session [TS]

  mm-hmm but I was I was pleased with with [TS]

  the output it did come out much better [TS]

  than I expected and i also think we were [TS]

  doing it under the worst of all possible [TS]

  circumstances that we were recording a [TS]

  relatively serious first episode and [TS]

  then transitioning into a much more [TS]

  normal second episode and i did really [TS]

  feel in that second recording like I was [TS]

  not quite on the ball and looking [TS]

  looking back on it when i was doing one [TS]

  of the pass-through edits on it i could [TS]

  hear myself not explaining things as [TS]

  well as i might imagine that a fresh me [TS]

  would have explained those things but i [TS]

  could be wrong about that because i'm [TS]

  always amazed by when i listened back to [TS]

  myself on a podcast how poorly i think [TS]

  previous me explained the ideas in his [TS]

  head this is a regular occurrence for [TS]

  you you always feel like you never do a [TS]

  good enough job but just pushes you to [TS]

  be better and better every time you know [TS]

  do you not have that Mike when you [TS]

  listen back to the show you don't have [TS]

  this experience of feeling like who is [TS]

  this idiot trying to explain things [TS]

  doesn't bother me okay but do you feel [TS]

  it at all are you aware that you do a [TS]

  poor job of explaining your idea I don't [TS]

  have as many ideas to explain you know [TS]

  so I don't really worry about it too [TS]

  much it doesn't bother me it doesn't [TS]

  bother me because I'm very aware of the [TS]

  constraints that we're in I prepare as [TS]

  much as I prepare but I know that every [TS]

  now and then we're just gonna talk [TS]

  instantaneously for a while not try not [TS]

  to be too hot myself your perfectionist [TS]

  this your problem I I disagree with that [TS]

  I'm not a perfectionist I would just [TS]

  prefer that I explain things much better [TS]

  than I actually do I'm not a [TS]

  perfectionist I just wish it was perfect [TS]

  that's all I care about well I mean if [TS]

  we're getting into wishing territory yes [TS]

  of course if I have a if I have a bucket [TS]

  full of wishes over here that I can use [TS]

  then yes let's make things perfect but [TS]

  actual perfection requires infinite [TS]

  effort which I'm not willing to expend [TS]

  but anyway put in putting all of that [TS]

  aside I think even under non ideal [TS]

  circumstances I think it came out pretty [TS]

  well and so I would regard this [TS]

  experiment as a win so we're not talking [TS]

  about this purely so we can have like a [TS]

  gotcha moment over the audience there is [TS]

  a there's a solid reason for this which [TS]

  is that it takes us a long time to [TS]

  record these episodes we have currently [TS]

  been on the phone for 90 minutes have we [TS]

  yeah because it takes us a long time to [TS]

  get ourselves ready to actually record [TS]

  this is true by the time we have [TS]

  completed our boot up sequence and [TS]

  pre-flight check lists so if we record [TS]

  two episodes back to back in theory it [TS]

  is less time spent overall in recording [TS]

  the episodes so that's kind of like the [TS]

  idea of why are we doing this we're not [TS]

  going to record every episode like this [TS]

  but it's what the reason that we're [TS]

  doing this is it gives us more [TS]

  flexibility to put episodes out more [TS]

  consistently especially as you are [TS]

  looking at the way that you spend your [TS]

  time more analytically and more closely [TS]

  this year so it is a way for us to see [TS]

  if like if we're under a time constraint [TS]

  can we still get episodes out with [TS]

  frequency in a way we could do that is [TS]

  by banking them more often yeah that's [TS]

  that's what we're looking at is there [TS]

  are some points in the year where it's [TS]

  going to be more difficult to record on [TS]

  a bi-weekly schedule and so we wanted to [TS]

  see if this was even possible to do or [TS]

  if it turned out just to be too [TS]

  exhausting to try to do two episodes [TS]

  back to back and it's interesting to [TS]

  think about this in terms of any other [TS]

  kind of work late I am really aware that [TS]

  any day that I'm recording a podcast is [TS]

  a is a very different day in my mind [TS]

  there's there's a meeting essentially [TS]

  that's taking place later in the day and [TS]

  so I'm always aware in the morning like [TS]

  there's there's this sort of constraint [TS]

  that whatever I'm doing it means to wrap [TS]

  up by a certain time because there's [TS]

  this meeting that's taking place that [TS]

  that there needs to be recording for and [TS]

  so that always kind of limits the [TS]

  potential activities that can be done on [TS]

  that day and then there are always [TS]

  things like like you said we have this [TS]

  whole process of getting ready to record [TS]

  the podcast sort of chatting about stuff [TS]

  ahead of time go running through the [TS]

  show notes doing all of this other kinds [TS]

  of things and so doing to it once is a [TS]

  bit like any other batch processing of [TS]

  work that occurs then that I feel like [TS]

  like batch processing is maybe one of [TS]

  the very first things about being [TS]

  productive that I really learned a long [TS]

  time ago and like the pre getting things [TS]

  done world which is like do similar [TS]

  tasks together at the same time don't [TS]

  don't switch between lots of different [TS]

  tasks do similar things together and so [TS]

  this idea of recording two shows at once [TS]

  feels like that and you get all of these [TS]

  little savings of on a single day where [TS]

  you have a meeting you get two shows [TS]

  instead of one or like even just today [TS]

  for some reason like my audio equipment [TS]

  wasn't working quite right and have to [TS]

  fuss with it for a little bit it's like [TS]

  great one futzing with audio equipment [TS]

  gets you two shows out the other end so [TS]

  I think there's a big win in being able [TS]

  to do something like this again because [TS]

  it was very exhausting it's not a thing [TS]

  that I plan to do every single time with [TS]

  no but it is great to know that we have [TS]

  it when we need it as an option yeah [TS]

  that it's that it is there in lieu of a [TS]

  time when there wouldn't be a show that [TS]

  this is a thing that we can possibly do [TS]

  when I was working in marketing [TS]

  there was like an eye-opening moment for [TS]

  me like went well and part of my job was [TS]

  dealing with getting things printed [TS]

  something getting things printed to [TS]

  Center people Lou and the surprise for [TS]

  me was in the fact that the amount of [TS]

  things that you need printed didn't [TS]

  change the cost equally right you could [TS]

  have a hundred thousand things printed [TS]

  and maybe that cost ten thousand pounds [TS]

  but if you wanted two hundred thousand [TS]

  it might be twelve thousand pounds right [TS]

  right and it was always very confusing [TS]

  to me it's like what there's more of [TS]

  them and it's because I quickly found [TS]

  out that so much of the cost is in [TS]

  turning the machines on right right once [TS]

  the machines are on and the plates are [TS]

  printed for the likes of the things can [TS]

  be stamped out or things can be inked [TS]

  that's where a lot of the cost is going [TS]

  so it is in the startup costs and [TS]

  everything else from there is cheaper so [TS]

  it's like a similar way for us it's like [TS]

  by the time we get everything out the [TS]

  way that is a big chunk of the time and [TS]

  then the rest is just what ends up [TS]

  getting put out but we only need to do [TS]

  that once if we record two episodes so [TS]

  that you know so that that was part of [TS]

  like a realization for me which I've [TS]

  kind of carried over into this work and [TS]

  something that's important to me is that [TS]

  there is there is an opportunity for the [TS]

  for the show quality to decrease if we [TS]

  do this right so there's a lot of work [TS]

  that we're doing on the other end to [TS]

  make it work you know and like there's [TS]

  one thing that I've been thinking about [TS]

  more like themed episodes and these [TS]

  little standalone units that we can [TS]

  release that will still be very [TS]

  interesting but can live on their own a [TS]

  little bit more than some other ever [TS]

  episodes like we have done a couple of [TS]

  episodes out of time now right like but [TS]

  it was like an out of time and out of [TS]

  time two out of time out time out they [TS]

  were they were consciously made like [TS]

  that and I'm kind of running some ideas [TS]

  through my head that if we want to do [TS]

  this a couple of times this year how can [TS]

  those episodes be a little bit more [TS]

  interesting and special than just a [TS]

  regular episode so there is definitely [TS]

  thought into it and really this is about [TS]

  us ensuring that we can make sure it's [TS]

  more often or at least not more often [TS]

  but more often than we'd be able to do [TS]

  if we didn't do this right yes really [TS]

  they'll probably be less episodes this [TS]

  year but if you didn't do it this way [TS]

  there be even less so listeners [TS]

  listeners to pull back the curtain just [TS]

  a little bit here right this is this is [TS]

  also part of a negotiation about how [TS]

  many episodes are there go [TS]

  to be over the course of the year where [TS]

  I don't want no episodes and Grey's like [TS]

  please please can we do some and I'm [TS]

  like no and so that that's kind of how [TS]

  it's been going you know yeah it is true [TS]

  as you would imagine it's that's the way [TS]

  it's going yeah I was I was attempting [TS]

  to make the show bi-weekly in the sense [TS]

  of twice a week but Mike was simply [TS]

  unwilling to commit to that I'm like can [TS]

  we do to a year right yeah that's so [TS]

  we've had to come to some kind of [TS]

  agreement between the two of us it's [TS]

  been really tough has been really all we [TS]

  got there you know yeah we had a bunch [TS]

  of CEO to CEO conversations and we got [TS]

  there like grown-ups today's episode of [TS]

  cortex is brought to you by Casper hey [TS]

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  your bed have it with your duvet and [TS]

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  thank you so much to Casper for their [TS]

  support of this show many people have [TS]

  asked me to share more about to doest we [TS]

  made reference to it last time about me [TS]

  moving to todoist as part of our burning [TS]

  down the tasks before I get to that I [TS]

  will ask you for for an update on your [TS]

  task management situation is there a [TS]

  task management although there is one [TS]

  yet ya know I am I am a leaf on the wind [TS]

  ah just taking life as it comes right [TS]

  now huh yeah yeah oh it's actually no no [TS]

  it's not nice oh well no system I don't [TS]

  have a system wells a long time ago now [TS]

  we spoke about this yeah i'm i am still [TS]

  I'm still doing this thing where I'm a [TS]

  bit playing around with and and just [TS]

  being very informal and it's an [TS]

  interesting thing because talking to [TS]

  people in my life again everybody else [TS]

  is coming from the perspective of oh [TS]

  this is how this is how normal people [TS]

  live that you just sort of know the [TS]

  things that you need to do maybe you [TS]

  write a few of them down but you don't [TS]

  have a real system for keeping track of [TS]

  absolutely everything that is watertight [TS]

  under all circumstances and I I simply [TS]

  don't understand how people can possibly [TS]

  live like that because I'm trying to [TS]

  figure out how to work [TS]

  in the future which is just turning into [TS]

  a much bigger project than I initially [TS]

  expected but not having a current system [TS]

  in place that is what I want it to be I [TS]

  i find it somewhat somewhat [TS]

  anxiety-inducing i am very aware of my [TS]

  brain burning calories thinking about [TS]

  stuff that i know it like this is the [TS]

  whole thing that my previous system got [TS]

  rid of is the like I don't have to worry [TS]

  about anything because I just know where [TS]

  everything is going to be and that that [TS]

  is no longer the case so I'm aware that [TS]

  my brain wants to be more anxious than [TS]

  it normally than it normally would be [TS]

  but I'm viewing this as an investment [TS]

  that is worth making in trying to [TS]

  refigure out what it is that I want to [TS]

  do but so no I don't have a like Oh F [TS]

  I've come down from the mountain with [TS]

  some answers and and I may I may never [TS]

  well do that i may just end up creating [TS]

  some squirrely thing that is is just for [TS]

  me the way i want it to work but i can [TS]

  say it's been kind of interesting living [TS]

  like a Normie i guess for the past few [TS]

  months uh yeah it's been interesting [TS]

  it's been an interesting thing not [TS]

  completely no more though I mean you [TS]

  didn't fire your assistant or anything [TS]

  you know you're not a Normie gray [TS]

  someone's picking up the bread crumbs [TS]

  that you're dropping yes that is that is [TS]

  definitely true that someone is picking [TS]

  up the bread comes that I'm dropping and [TS]

  related to that the one the one change [TS]

  that I have made which I can report on [TS]

  which it relates to this very section is [TS]

  that I have moved from Wunderlist with [TS]

  my assistant to todoist oh so I do have [TS]

  some todoist experience in this [TS]

  conversation but we have we have [TS]

  switched our collaboration tool and I'll [TS]

  just say for vastly better it's a big [TS]

  it's a big improvement and so that is [TS]

  that is one thing that has definitely [TS]

  happened that is interesting so what are [TS]

  your experiences with Steaua Smike so I [TS]

  want to talk about a few a few aspects [TS]

  of it so some of them are the things [TS]

  that make to do a superior and some of [TS]

  them the more tricky for me as a [TS]

  previous OmniFocus user so the key [TS]

  reason that I decided I wanted to make [TS]

  this move which I have spoken about [TS]

  spoke about it on the last episode is [TS]

  the integrations but now I have more [TS]

  time to play with them what makes [TS]

  todoist interesting to me is that [TS]

  todoist has a fundamental understanding [TS]

  of the web there is an API there is a [TS]

  web version of todoist and it is the [TS]

  fact that it has this understanding of [TS]

  kind of modern automation conventions [TS]

  and stuff like that that is appealing to [TS]

  me omnifocus is very shut off from the [TS]

  rest of the world we spent a lot of time [TS]

  talking about it in the past like how [TS]

  excited we were when we could finally [TS]

  have templates and that they could be [TS]

  code for OmniFocus so we could do things [TS]

  with it from other applications but it's [TS]

  still on device everything is happening [TS]

  on device and you have to ask OmniFocus [TS]

  to do something or plug something into [TS]

  it but to do 'used things can happen in [TS]

  the background you can have tasks added [TS]

  by services where you've never even [TS]

  opened todoist only I have a workflow [TS]

  which I'll put in the show notes which i [TS]

  can run from anywhere on iOS i can add [TS]

  links to it i can add i can at times i [TS]

  can add notes and to do it is never [TS]

  opened everything is just done in the [TS]

  workflow app from wherever i want to do [TS]

  it on the system and the task is added [TS]

  in the background because it's added [TS]

  wired to do is say P I hmm there are [TS]

  other things that I have hooked up so [TS]

  some web automation tools like zapier [TS]

  and IFTTT they're able to add things so [TS]

  I'm still digging around with zappia and [TS]

  I want to spend more time talking about [TS]

  this service specifically in the future [TS]

  because it is like Charlie and the [TS]

  Chocolate Factory this service is just [TS]

  incredible like I've built some some [TS]

  zaps as they call them which are doing [TS]

  things that I've wanted for so long like [TS]

  new we use fresh books for our invoicing [TS]

  at relay FM and I now have the ability [TS]

  in our in a slack channel to see every [TS]

  time one of those people that we invoice [TS]

  when the responses that we work of every [TS]

  time they they log in [TS]

  and do something in freshbooks [TS]

  FreshBooks knows this we're now using [TS]

  zappia that information is piped into [TS]

  our slack so we're able to see every [TS]

  time somebody logs in and looks at an [TS]

  invoice without ever being in freshbooks [TS]

  zapier is allowing that for us yeah [TS]

  really allows you to connect a whole [TS]

  bunch of stuff like if you ever used if [TS]

  this then that and then you look at [TS]

  zapier like I've been trying to slowly [TS]

  transition all the stuff that i have in [TS]

  if this then that to over to zapier [TS]

  because it's so much more powerful and [TS]

  when using zapier it makes you know as [TS]

  apiaries is like like a constructor set [TS]

  where you can build all kinds of things [TS]

  and it makes if this then that look like [TS]

  it's duplo yeah like what does those [TS]

  lego blocks that are for real babies [TS]

  like a gigantic Lego blocks that's what [TS]

  it is okay that's what it feels like [TS]

  you've got like the Lego stuff [TS]

  mindstorms right like the stuff that you [TS]

  can actually build robots with us [TS]

  overruns a beer and then you've got your [TS]

  little little fisher-price I have TTP [TS]

  over there in the corner IFTTT is great [TS]

  for for getting your feet wet with this [TS]

  stuff but like the great thing about [TS]

  zappia is like you can have one action [TS]

  trigger things in multiple other web [TS]

  services right there are multiple stages [TS]

  you can build is really very powerful [TS]

  yeah and what I also like is that you [TS]

  can you can do the thing which I've [TS]

  wanted if this and that to do for [TS]

  forever which is have a some very basic [TS]

  logic operators like if this occurs and [TS]

  also these filtering conditions match [TS]

  then do the thing I think that's you [TS]

  know just even just the tiniest amount [TS]

  of that makes it makes it so much more [TS]

  powerful so I've got to recommend that [TS]

  people try out say p ER and just as a [TS]

  little as a little sidebar here i feel [TS]

  like in my past couple months of [TS]

  exploring with stuff really ever since i [TS]

  started with using toggle and their api [TS]

  for doing the time tracking i feel like [TS]

  i've had my eyes open to this whole [TS]

  world that i have been intentionally [TS]

  avoiding yep me too buddy yeah which is [TS]

  like this this whole world of web AP is [TS]

  and I had a real moment of realizing I [TS]

  need to learn a new skill here I [TS]

  mentioned on two shows ago or whatever [TS]

  was last show an amount of shows in the [TS]

  past and amount of shows ago because of [TS]

  because of the recording that I was that [TS]

  I was playing around with Trello as as a [TS]

  way to just visually move around work [TS]

  and i'm really liking Trello like it's [TS]

  it's an interesting way to just look at [TS]

  some stuff and Trello is like zapier [TS]

  like like slack like toggle like all [TS]

  these things it has a Web API l yeah and [TS]

  so I was playing around with the NS as [TS]

  inevitably would happen anytime i'm [TS]

  working with the tool eventually I [TS]

  realize oh there are some things that I [TS]

  would want to enter the same way all the [TS]

  time if i was using this looks like here [TS]

  we go like you're starting to build up [TS]

  some kind of template right and i was [TS]

  playing around and with workflow and [TS]

  looking and seeing oh how can i get the [TS]

  workflow app to automatically add a [TS]

  bunch of cards to Trello if I want to [TS]

  trigger a thing all right and I was [TS]

  disappointed because in the workflow app [TS]

  there's only a few options for what [TS]

  kinds of information you can add to a [TS]

  Trello card where it can go it's [TS]

  relatively limited and it was this [TS]

  moment it dawned on me I thought wait a [TS]

  minute but what is the workflow app [TS]

  doing it must be talking to some kind of [TS]

  toggle API that exists out there on the [TS]

  web and so I googled around and [TS]

  eventually found it and I realized oh [TS]

  okay Trello has an API where you can [TS]

  affect everything about the cards like [TS]

  literally everything is available there [TS]

  and then I suddenly realized ah ok all [TS]

  of these apps are doing the same thing [TS]

  they're using web URLs and the public [TS]

  API is to talk to each other and this is [TS]

  a thing that I need to seriously sit [TS]

  down and learn as a skill because if I [TS]

  learn this skill then I'm not dependent [TS]

  on the workflow app guys making a little [TS]

  premade template that's easy for me to [TS]

  use it's like no no I can just program [TS]

  the thing directly to talk to the web [TS]

  api's and I feel like that was the [TS]

  moment I realize like this is what a lot [TS]

  of [TS]

  modern automation particularly on a [TS]

  device like an iPad is going to look [TS]

  like and I think that that was just a [TS]

  real realization that I feel like I've [TS]

  had in the past couple months like okay [TS]

  this Web API world like this is way more [TS]

  powerful than I ever gave it credit for [TS]

  and I always used to be prioritizing [TS]

  apps that could work on an airplane that [TS]

  would work in offline mode where I [TS]

  wouldn't have to connect to any kind of [TS]

  web service but I think something has [TS]

  shifted in my mind to finally really [TS]

  understanding the value of these things [TS]

  yep like if I am using a tool that has [TS]

  an impact on my work my feeling now is [TS]

  it has to have an API because I am fed [TS]

  up of giving this data to a system which [TS]

  keeps it mmm because there is no reason [TS]

  for that to happen anymore I should be [TS]

  able to tidy things together and I am [TS]

  not close to what you're doing in the [TS]

  level that which I'm doing this but I'm [TS]

  getting interested and so that's and [TS]

  I've started doing things where like [TS]

  I've had a problem that I wanted to [TS]

  solve and i am now like in the mindset [TS]

  of like why don't I try and build a [TS]

  thing hmm and I've been doing that with [TS]

  some with some work flows like their [TS]

  I've I've been able to build some [TS]

  workflows now which I would have [TS]

  previously just continued doing things [TS]

  the same way and these services are [TS]

  becoming more and more important for me [TS]

  as I continue to do my work due to [TS]

  optimize and with something we're gonna [TS]

  talk about later on the show with hiring [TS]

  an assistant is only going to become [TS]

  more important because I will have [TS]

  things now that will be entered by [TS]

  somebody else into a system mmm right [TS]

  and there could be a case where I'm like [TS]

  why doesn't this stuff just come to me [TS]

  instead of me going to get it and web [TS]

  automation and web integrations will be [TS]

  the API is will be what allows all that [TS]

  stuff to be pulled together in an [TS]

  interesting way so this is where I want [TS]

  to go now like I have all of this data [TS]

  that I give two systems I want these [TS]

  systems to be able to talk to each other [TS]

  if I want them to and I do I said what [TS]

  you're doing here i think is [TS]

  it's such a valuable skill to understand [TS]

  like just it's not programming like [TS]

  you're not a programmer here no way but [TS]

  this this kind of thing where you you [TS]

  learn and you realize how to make the [TS]

  machine do something on its own or how [TS]

  to make the different machines talk to [TS]

  each other this this kind of very very [TS]

  basic you know programming ultralight [TS]

  kind of thing that an app like workflow [TS]

  allows or something like JP er allows [TS]

  you to do by visually rearranging [TS]

  objects I think this is such an [TS]

  incredibly valuable skill if you have [TS]

  never messed around with one of these [TS]

  kind of systems I think it's hugely [TS]

  valuable to just just try and just play [TS]

  around with a little bit just to get it [TS]

  into your mind that there may be [TS]

  something you're doing that with a [TS]

  little bit of effort you can make [TS]

  automatic or vastly vastly simpler and [TS]

  once you get that hook in your brain you [TS]

  can you can really improve a lot of the [TS]

  way use you do things on computing [TS]

  devices of all kinds but I just happen [TS]

  to think like the workflow app in [TS]

  particular is a great example of [TS]

  visually rearranging stuff and there [TS]

  seems to be a bunch more tools like like [TS]

  zapier that are doing this kind of thing [TS]

  of allowing you to visually rearrange [TS]

  stuff even if you don't want to do the [TS]

  thing that I'm trying to do which is [TS]

  like dig into like how is this JSON [TS]

  object structure like you don't need to [TS]

  go that far just just knowing the basics [TS]

  already makes a huge difference it is [TS]

  these visual services that's helping me [TS]

  understand it right like I've tweaked [TS]

  things in some of my work flows which [TS]

  are like real API stuff like I've messed [TS]

  around in the code but it's because the [TS]

  wrapper around it is helping me [TS]

  understand the context of the thing yeah [TS]

  so like I'm able to kind of work it out [TS]

  in my brain with little knowledge was I [TS]

  be like oh it's this step which is got [TS]

  this code in it and this step isn't [TS]

  working the way I want it to so let me [TS]

  look at this and if this stuff written [TS]

  well enough someone like me can can have [TS]

  an idea of understanding it and also [TS]

  playing with it and whilst we're in this [TS]

  engine I've been thinking about this a [TS]

  lot recently well like you spend hours [TS]

  building this stuff right does it pay [TS]

  off in the long run right this is a [TS]

  question that I think a lot of people [TS]

  have is like you've just spent four [TS]

  hours building this workflow with trial [TS]

  and error and all it's doing is saving [TS]

  you 30 seconds every single time how [TS]

  long is it going to take to for that to [TS]

  pay off and the realization that I've [TS]

  come to is it's not about the time it's [TS]

  about the frustration yes yes it is [TS]

  about me pressing one button to do a [TS]

  thing rather than opening two apps and [TS]

  then doing two things and type in this [TS]

  thing in here and pressing send here [TS]

  it's about pressing a button and just [TS]

  having it done and it is the the [TS]

  combination of the fun of building thing [TS]

  and having the sense of accomplishment [TS]

  of doing it and then every subsequent [TS]

  time benefiting from that work that you [TS]

  paid in and just making it feel like [TS]

  your work is happening more smoothly it [TS]

  doesn't matter to me if I'm saving time [TS]

  that's not a thing it's about the [TS]

  comfort of my work yeah there's also [TS]

  another aspect to this which i think is [TS]

  underappreciated but when you when you [TS]

  automate something you end up making it [TS]

  much easier to do that thing and so like [TS]

  for example with the time tracking but [TS]

  like the whole reason that I'm able to [TS]

  do this seasonal experiment that I'm [TS]

  doing of trying to track absolutely [TS]

  everything is entirely because [TS]

  automation allows the tracking to be as [TS]

  simple as possible yep if I wasn't able [TS]

  to use workflow from the notification [TS]

  center from my watch to trigger the [TS]

  toggle stuff if I was having to open the [TS]

  toggle app or go to the toggle website [TS]

  every time I wouldn't be doing this [TS]

  wouldn't be doing exactly wouldn't what [TS]

  exactly this would never had I'm still [TS]

  using this for every task I do I'm still [TS]

  finding it very useful like this feels [TS]

  like just part of my work now but if I [TS]

  had the friction of needing to open a [TS]

  specific thing every time as opposed to [TS]

  just like pulling down and pressing two [TS]

  buttons it wouldn't be doing it yeah [TS]

  it's that's one of the things that [TS]

  automation gets you is it's a bit like I [TS]

  forget the name of it but in a like in [TS]

  economics when the price of a resource [TS]

  dramatically [TS]

  drops you end up using so much more of [TS]

  it and it allows you to do more things [TS]

  and it's not like oh the price of copper [TS]

  is dropped like are you like yes we're [TS]

  going to use more copper that's the [TS]

  whole point right like we can now do [TS]

  more things than we could do before [TS]

  again it's funny you mentioned on the [TS]

  watch like I'm so where there's a couple [TS]

  of instances where being able to use the [TS]

  workflow app from the watch in a couple [TS]

  of situations means I'm able to very [TS]

  easily track some time than I wouldn't [TS]

  otherwise like in particular when I'm [TS]

  reading at night like I'm reading the [TS]

  book and my phone is charging in the [TS]

  other room it's not in the same room [TS]

  that I sleep and I can just very quickly [TS]

  like press a button and then as i'm [TS]

  going to bed just say like i'm done [TS]

  reading stop the clock like the days [TS]

  over and the little workflow app just [TS]

  automatically does that thing whereas [TS]

  otherwise I wouldn't be tracking my [TS]

  reading time at night if it meant that I [TS]

  had to get up and go use another device [TS]

  that I don't want around me while I'm [TS]

  reading at night like it's just it's [TS]

  it's really great to be able to do that [TS]

  kind of stuff like I wish I always kind [TS]

  of feel like when people dismiss [TS]

  automation it's it's been like I don't [TS]

  think you understand what's actually [TS]

  happening I think there's an idea in [TS]

  your head of people spending hours and [TS]

  hours automating some system for no [TS]

  benefits but you're you're only looking [TS]

  at the benefit in a very very narrow way [TS]

  plus there's also just the skill of [TS]

  learning how to do this kind of thing [TS]

  and then being able to apply it to other [TS]

  stuff I'm honestly considering this is [TS]

  like a hobby mmm and one of my hobbies [TS]

  now is tinkering of automation because I [TS]

  find it fun I just guess I love the [TS]

  feeling of like yes I did it like I did [TS]

  it you know and that's that's that feels [TS]

  good so going back to todoist right so [TS]

  this this is like the biggest reason [TS]

  that I made this move and there are a [TS]

  couple of things and take advantage of [TS]

  right now which I really like one of [TS]

  them is having zapier or ifttt they can [TS]

  both do this watch a google calendar and [TS]

  add tasks based on events that trigger [TS]

  so a practical application of this for [TS]

  me is every time it sees a podcast [TS]

  recording on my calendar it adds a task [TS]

  to edit that show [TS]

  hmm very simple right but it can do all [TS]

  of that stuff for me and I think to [TS]

  myself in the future of like the ways [TS]

  that I could do this of like having this [TS]

  stuff then going to toggle and like how [TS]

  can all that work together and these all [TS]

  these things can just trigger on their [TS]

  own right so because I I still press [TS]

  some buttons every time I sit down to [TS]

  record I don't need to do that toggle [TS]

  could just start at the same time right [TS]

  because their calendar events I'm gonna [TS]

  be here two o'clock right Friday or [TS]

  whatever so toggle ways more just may as [TS]

  well to start on its own it's like there [TS]

  are little things that I know how I want [TS]

  to build from them another one is an [TS]

  integration which to do is build for [TS]

  slack so I can be in slack and I can [TS]

  type forward slash todoist and I can [TS]

  just type in a task i can type in a due [TS]

  date labels and projects and it just [TS]

  gets added nobody sees it I just type it [TS]

  i press enter it says yep the tasks in [TS]

  there so this is like somebody's asking [TS]

  me and slack to do something and I never [TS]

  even leave slack oh so you can you don't [TS]

  have to talk to the slack pot to do this [TS]

  you can just like if you're in a general [TS]

  chat room you can just do this yep oh [TS]

  that's very interesting yep it's an [TS]

  integration that to do is built so i can [TS]

  be talking to stephen and he's like Oh [TS]

  could you take a look at that invoice [TS]

  for me later on and I could just type in [TS]

  take a look at the invoice at two [TS]

  o'clock and press ENTER and then just [TS]

  added beautiful that's very nice [TS]

  beautiful that's pretty nice so these [TS]

  this is the main the biggest reason i [TS]

  made this shift because as much as i [TS]

  have loved using OmniFocus i think it's [TS]

  very clear they're never gonna add this [TS]

  but even if they're going to add it it's [TS]

  gonna take longer for them to add this [TS]

  then I'm willing to wait I'm at the [TS]

  point now where I'm starting the value [TS]

  this stuff a little bit more than losing [TS]

  some of the features and there are [TS]

  features not I'm losing there are things [TS]

  that annoy me about to do is there are [TS]

  things I wish it did better and there [TS]

  are things that I wish it more like [TS]

  OmniFocus which is kind of not fair but [TS]

  I have those wishes and yeah that's [TS]

  totally not fair because that's you know [TS]

  that so like the things that annoy me [TS]

  about it things I think aren't being [TS]

  done right is one thing and then there [TS]

  are just things i think they wish they [TS]

  did more like OmniFocus which is like [TS]

  you know that's not fair to wish I [TS]

  humbly so one thing that I mrs. [TS]

  OmniFocus is forecast view because it [TS]

  became so important for me so it was [TS]

  just his view in OmniFocus which gave me [TS]

  a can [TS]

  under and on the calendar days it showed [TS]

  me how many tasks during each day and [TS]

  that just gave me at a glance how busy [TS]

  my week was mm-hmm to do is doesn't [TS]

  really have this at all like they have a [TS]

  next seven days which i'm using but all [TS]

  it does is just shows a list of all of [TS]

  the tasks for the next seven days you [TS]

  get no counters choose a base on counter [TS]

  right like I'd see like 7 12 on monday [TS]

  nine times on Tuesday two tasks and went [TS]

  de great i can move stuff to wednesday [TS]

  because wednesday is not busy but now I [TS]

  kind of just have to look at this list [TS]

  and that's it doesn't really work for me [TS]

  so well something to do is has which I [TS]

  do kind of think is interesting and is [TS]

  working for me more is when you got to [TS]

  reschedule something it uses machine [TS]

  learning to tell you when your busiest [TS]

  that your least busy days will be so you [TS]

  can move stuff too so it makes [TS]

  recommendations and that's really cool [TS]

  writes another thing about the data is [TS]

  like it's it knows that like either by [TS]

  trends or just by like what my average [TS]

  task usage is a day like how many tasks [TS]

  I'm check enough it can recommend days [TS]

  in the future where I'm not so busy to [TS]

  move stuff so I think that's really cool [TS]

  yeah I think that's an interesting an [TS]

  interesting example of again having the [TS]

  dated done differently like the machine [TS]

  can recommend things to you yeah in in [TS]

  an open way and I've ever say like I was [TS]

  curious when I saw that with to do us [TS]

  now the way that i am using it which is [TS]

  primarily as a communication tool [TS]

  between my assistant i like that's [TS]

  that's not really a practical thing but [TS]

  i think it shows that an interesting [TS]

  direction yeah we're how can this stuff [TS]

  go like and I know that that's going to [TS]

  get better for me over time the more [TS]

  data i'm plugging into this the better [TS]

  that suggestions gonna get right and it [TS]

  so that's like a long game that I'm [TS]

  playing with it but I do miss just not [TS]

  just because my system had kind of been [TS]

  built around this idea of looking at the [TS]

  numbers mm-hmm but now now that I don't [TS]

  have that like I'm starting to think to [TS]

  myself like was this actually really a [TS]

  good system mm-hmm I don't think it was [TS]

  that thought that you're having right [TS]

  there this is the this is exactly the [TS]

  kind of thing that I'm trying to think [TS]

  through with everything that I've done [TS]

  is like there there are many tools that [TS]

  i may have relied upon but if you step [TS]

  away from them for a while you can view [TS]

  it with more clarity and say [TS]

  was this or was this not actually a [TS]

  beneficial thing and I could see like [TS]

  you always it's interesting is when we [TS]

  would discuss using OmniFocus that you [TS]

  always brought up the forecast tool as [TS]

  such a primary thing for you whereas I [TS]

  had a different feature which is my [TS]

  primary thing but I never looked at that [TS]

  forecast so that was one of the things [TS]

  that to me just I filed under totally [TS]

  useless let seeing that I have more or [TS]

  fewer tasks represented as a single [TS]

  number on a day like I just never found [TS]

  that to be a useful tool to actually [TS]

  guide any decision-making process at all [TS]

  it's I mean simply because like tasks [TS]

  are of vastly varying sizes yeah so [TS]

  seven verses three verses 20 doesn't [TS]

  actually convey the information that you [TS]

  think it conveys so like yeah I'm just [TS]

  realizing that those numbers they're not [TS]

  that hopeful um I do wish i had the [TS]

  forecast view just because it was a nice [TS]

  way to see where there were maybe gaps [TS]

  right so like days and there were less [TS]

  busy but the idea that i live to it was [TS]

  like plus seven tasks means super busy [TS]

  day i don't think that that is as useful [TS]

  as i thought it was right because we'll [TS]

  come back to the to this in a moment but [TS]

  to doest has quite some interesting [TS]

  reporting features and let looking at my [TS]

  last seven days every single day i was [TS]

  doing i'm done over seven tasks so far [TS]

  this week but previously that meant [TS]

  super busy day to me so right i also [TS]

  think that what i'm doing what to do [TS]

  'used is I'm entering more tasks into [TS]

  the system of OmniFocus I was [TS]

  restricting the amount of tasks that I [TS]

  would enter into the system because of [TS]

  going over that number so now I'm adding [TS]

  more stuff into the system which i think [TS]

  is making me more productive as you [TS]

  would assume because there are more [TS]

  things that going in the more that goes [TS]

  in the more that will get done or less [TS]

  things that will get missed but now I'm [TS]

  not in so much fear of like or can't [TS]

  send it over seven so I think that's [TS]

  been a is actually while I miss the [TS]

  feature it has helped I think break a [TS]

  bad habit what you're talking about here [TS]

  like oh this arbitrary number of seven [TS]

  this is I mentioned last time that I can [TS]

  looking into scrum a little bit and I've [TS]

  been playing around with some [TS]

  ideas about how the system works for [TS]

  organizing stuff and there's a couple of [TS]

  things that I think are really valuable [TS]

  in this and and one of them is is really [TS]

  this this focus on trying to get an [TS]

  estimate for how big your tasks actually [TS]

  are and then trying to through measuring [TS]

  your previous activities get a sense of [TS]

  how much can I do in a day not based on [TS]

  my feelings but based on previous data [TS]

  and I think that that's a really [TS]

  interesting idea and you can just see [TS]

  how there are very many ways let like [TS]

  this plus seven that you were running [TS]

  into where you you can be getting a very [TS]

  false sense of how much is on my plate [TS]

  for the day and how much can I possibly [TS]

  do so it's good I mean I mean I don't [TS]

  know how to recommend to people because [TS]

  obviously everybody systems different [TS]

  but there is some real value in changing [TS]

  things even if you plan to go back but [TS]

  just as a way to help you reassess to [TS]

  see if you've got any may be unhealthy [TS]

  habits in your system mmm I do there was [TS]

  a there was a problem in the system that [TS]

  I didn't know was there this episode of [TS]

  cortex is brought to you in part by [TS]

  hover when you have a great idea for [TS]

  your new startup or business or blog or [TS]

  whatever you need to give it a great [TS]

  domain name and finding that perfect [TS]

  domain name is ridiculously easy with [TS]

  hover when all you want to do is buy a [TS]

  domain name or email address you [TS]

  shouldn't have to opt out of page after [TS]

  page of add-ons that you don't want and [TS]

  you don't need that's why hover offers [TS]

  only domains in email so you can focus [TS]

  on getting a great domain name and [TS]

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  they believe you shouldn't have to pay [TS]

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  privacy which keeps all of your private [TS]

  details safe on the internet many other [TS]

  registrar's require that you pay for [TS]

  such a service but not hover they think [TS]

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  name is however is where I always go to [TS]

  register my domain names and it's where [TS]

  you should too they're fantastic service [TS]

  with a nice clean simple easy-to-use [TS]

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  hover com / cortex and get ten percent [TS]

  off your first purchase once again [TS]

  that's hover com / cortex to find out [TS]

  more and get ten percent off your first [TS]

  purchase thank you so much to hover for [TS]

  their support of this show and all a [TS]

  real AFM relate it to this number thing [TS]

  there is something that's frustrating to [TS]

  me that the the badge that to do is [TS]

  shows on the application on iOS is just [TS]

  a straight how many tasks you have jus [TS]

  for the day I've really want that to be [TS]

  over to you honestly because it kind of [TS]

  is just a weird thing to me to be like [TS]

  just shows the number ten like that's [TS]

  the total amount of tasks not like total [TS]

  amount i'll sell overdue i'm getting [TS]

  used to this because now this is kind of [TS]

  just giving me a rundown of how many [TS]

  things i have left for the day which is [TS]

  so like it's I'm again it's like a [TS]

  change of the system but I do still [TS]

  think that that's weird not even to have [TS]

  that setting of being able to say like [TS]

  how many talks are overdue as to how [TS]

  many tasks are just do for the day I do [TS]

  you think it's a weird choice that [TS]

  they've made to make that just ate you [TS]

  can't adjust this this is what it is [TS]

  here's okay so while we have been seeing [TS]

  the praises of AP eyes and open data my [TS]

  my biggest complaint with using a bunch [TS]

  of these services like to do 'used slack [TS]

  and Trello is that they never feel like [TS]

  they're native citizens on the operating [TS]

  system that you're using no because they [TS]

  try and build applications that can work [TS]

  across systems exactly that consistent [TS]

  that shows itself in obvious ways and [TS]

  not obvious ways like obvious ways for [TS]

  like for example if I'm scrolling in [TS]

  Trello it's clearly like a web page is [TS]

  being rendered on the screen and the [TS]

  framerate drops like hell if I'm [TS]

  scrolling back forth in a way that a [TS]

  native app never would because it's [TS]

  doing something funny or like it's so [TS]

  hard to pin down what it is but even [TS]

  just the way in todoist when you're [TS]

  completing tasks or adding things like [TS]

  it just doesn't feel like iOS because it [TS]

  because it isn't but it also shows up [TS]

  and I think exactly what you're talking [TS]

  about here where there are a surprising [TS]

  lack of options very often when you're [TS]

  using these kinds of apps when they are [TS]

  apps to feel they should have [TS]

  yeah and and this is this is a perfect [TS]

  example of it feels like what you want [TS]

  that app badge icon to represent it [TS]

  feels like you should have a huge array [TS]

  of selections in here but you don't and [TS]

  I think that is a side effect of the [TS]

  company I think smartly trying to build [TS]

  an app that works universally across a [TS]

  whole bunch of platforms and so to them [TS]

  almost any time spent on customization [TS]

  on a particular platform is almost [TS]

  wasted time I'm aware like what I would [TS]

  love is a way to have that badge show [TS]

  the number of tasks that are currently [TS]

  assigned to me in the system up again [TS]

  this is because i'm using it in a very [TS]

  different way you are as a collaboration [TS]

  between two people and that's one of [TS]

  these cases where's like I don't have a [TS]

  good way for that that for the app to [TS]

  communicate to me through a little icon [TS]

  that oh my assistant needs me to get [TS]

  back on something related to tax [TS]

  documentation or whatever it is today [TS]

  like it feels like that should be an [TS]

  option but it isn't it's not in there [TS]

  and I will just add since you missed the [TS]

  forecasts from OmniFocus my biggest [TS]

  missing feature that I have to say [TS]

  omnifocus does so well and I don't see [TS]

  any other to-do app at all handle this [TS]

  is the concept of start dates and I feel [TS]

  like start dates are so integrated into [TS]

  my mind that I like I don't understand [TS]

  how any of these apps work with like I'm [TS]

  een here's all I'm asking for like this [TS]

  let's let's say I wanted to add a task [TS]

  let's do like the simplest task in the [TS]

  world which is like buy flowers for [TS]

  Mother's Day right let's say something [TS]

  like this you know and it's do you know [TS]

  the day before Mother's Day I don't want [TS]

  to see that task as open and uncompleted [TS]

  for the whole year running up to mothers [TS]

  like I want to say set the start date a [TS]

  week before Mother's Day like don't show [TS]

  me this task until it actually starts [TS]

  coming up right or if there's a thing [TS]

  that I can only do later in the day but [TS]

  I can't do now like set the start time [TS]

  to be later in the day and [TS]

  omnifocus like nails this with the [TS]

  ability to only show you tasks that you [TS]

  can do right now and no other [TS]

  application seems to do this very well [TS]

  and it is the one thing that is driving [TS]

  me kind of crazy into doest is there's [TS]

  always a bunch of stuff that looks like [TS]

  it's open and available but very often [TS]

  like I can't actually make any progress [TS]

  on this until a later point in time and [TS]

  I wish there was a way to hide it until [TS]

  I actually can do something about it [TS]

  yeah I've seen people complain about [TS]

  with other systems as well Phyllis is [TS]

  one of those things that I don't think a [TS]

  lot of people are thinking about now [TS]

  like it was maybe like a pot as part of [TS]

  a system which people don't consider I [TS]

  don't know why but it's like I never [TS]

  even thought oh this is like it will [TS]

  just come up when it comes up by due [TS]

  date like even when you want to explain [TS]

  it to me I'm just like it's just they're [TS]

  just you just don't see it what do you [TS]

  mean he just don't you but you do see it [TS]

  like you see it in the system when [TS]

  you're looking at like the list of open [TS]

  tasks just don't look that like hey you [TS]

  know like I know what you're seeing is [TS]

  that you go to the project or whatever [TS]

  but you don't need to be in the project [TS]

  just just do what what's jus my notice [TS]

  is there's a difference in the system [TS]

  right but but I know I know this is like [TS]

  yeah this is like a this is like a [TS]

  philosophical distance and this is also [TS]

  a case where I know that I am in the [TS]

  minority because essentially no other [TS]

  to-do app makes this no like it's like [TS]

  I've never seen anybody do this [TS]

  implementation as well the same was like [TS]

  deferring yeah like I see people say [TS]

  they want deferred eight so just like [TS]

  just move the Jew day like what's wrong [TS]

  with you that's this is in my mind it's [TS]

  like just just move the date I do i do [TS]

  think this is also a little bit of a a [TS]

  holdover from a certain kind of getting [TS]

  things done thinking which I still I'm [TS]

  still maintaining that I really like [TS]

  this which is a due date should be a [TS]

  real hard due date are you like you [TS]

  shouldn't be using due dates for I'd [TS]

  like to do this thing on this day yeah [TS]

  right that's that's the distinction here [TS]

  and so a start date allows you to have a [TS]

  distinction about like due dates are [TS]

  really due dates right there they're not [TS]

  these other kind of things but but I am [TS]

  totally aware of like if I'm wanting to [TS]

  use any other system I totally have to [TS]

  hack my way around this like I did [TS]

  mention before I still use to do to [TS]

  track certain kinds of tasks like little [TS]

  routine tasks and I just hack that whole [TS]

  thing or it's like everything only shows [TS]

  up in my system when it's overdue right [TS]

  so sighs look just the due date means [TS]

  nothing right it's just this is what I [TS]

  want the thing to show up not when it's [TS]

  actually do so I think I think that's [TS]

  where this disagreement comes in is like [TS]

  a philosophical conflict over what is [TS]

  the meaning of the due date yeah I feel [TS]

  like this is an old school thinking [TS]

  rather as you mentioned because I feel [TS]

  like everybody that I know that uses [TS]

  those functions like differ and start [TS]

  and stuff like that there's people that [TS]

  that seem to have been doing this stuff [TS]

  for longer yeah I I think that is the [TS]

  case whereas it seems like most people [TS]

  are much happier with using the due date [TS]

  as a goal almost like oh this is the day [TS]

  that I want to do the thing and it feels [TS]

  like it might be like if you're at the [TS]

  school of David Allen or not that that's [TS]

  what I do think this is probably a [TS]

  holdover from that but this is this is [TS]

  one habit that I just I cannot let go [TS]

  because I like it's like due dates [TS]

  should mean something right likes it [TS]

  like sometimes you get into an argument [TS]

  with the person and they're using words [TS]

  like in a really sloppy way and it's [TS]

  like no words need to mean something [TS]

  like if we're having a conversation and [TS]

  words mean nothing like well I don't [TS]

  even understand how we can have a [TS]

  conversation and I feel that way about [TS]

  due dates and system like the day due [TS]

  date needs to mean something otherwise I [TS]

  don't understand how to organize [TS]

  anything okay grandpa I know I know [TS]

  that's where I am you kids with your [TS]

  with your due dates that mean nothing [TS]

  and your words that can mean whatever [TS]

  you want them to mean it's just like [TS]

  okay whatever just gonna yell at you [TS]

  from my porch that's what I'm gonna do [TS]

  one of a problem of my switch to do is [TS]

  is one hundred percent on me errors with [TS]

  the manual data transfer okay human [TS]

  error oh my god oh this is completely on [TS]

  me so like I added some things [TS]

  incorrectly so there was like some tasks [TS]

  that I had to complete and they were [TS]

  just like they were on the wrong [TS]

  repeating cycle or something [TS]

  and so now I live in fear of like what [TS]

  else is wrong right something in here is [TS]

  wrong and I don't know what it is and [TS]

  I'll only know when it's too late you [TS]

  know but there's nothing you can do [TS]

  about that I just freaking wish there [TS]

  was a system so i could move around [TS]

  easily but no doesn't do like that ship [TS]

  has sailed but i just wished that there [TS]

  was something you know we spoke about [TS]

  this last time like i just wished it was [TS]

  like a system like Heather's calendars [TS]

  or system how there is email right that [TS]

  these things are just there and you can [TS]

  move from app to app because they're [TS]

  pulling from a database that everyone [TS]

  can share you know like how r SS is you [TS]

  know like I just wish there was a thing [TS]

  like that for tasks but there isn't and [TS]

  there never will be because it's too [TS]

  late now there never will be and I think [TS]

  the the three protocols that we have [TS]

  like RSS email and HTML that are these [TS]

  universal protocols that are used by [TS]

  everybody I think all three of those are [TS]

  are almost like a historical accident [TS]

  that we even got them in the first place [TS]

  I let not even long for this world [TS]

  anymore lot of this stuff right yeah but [TS]

  it'sit's they're really valuable because [TS]

  of that but it's this is one of these [TS]

  cases where I feel like you run the [TS]

  simulation of the world over again and [TS]

  we could end up in a world where there [TS]

  aren't these common communication [TS]

  protocols and I do think that when you [TS]

  say they're not long for the world I [TS]

  think on the user end in very many cases [TS]

  they're not long for the world but [TS]

  they're they're a kind of foundation [TS]

  that will probably never go away and [TS]

  they are super useful like HTML and be [TS]

  able to do the this API stuff like this [TS]

  is all dependent on the very notion of [TS]

  loading and sending information to a web [TS]

  page yeah great I'm so happy this is [TS]

  here I said but the ones we have that's [TS]

  as many as we're gonna have exactly [TS]

  that's kind of I mean like the idea of [TS]

  it is not long for this world in that [TS]

  their war no one's gonna make another [TS]

  one of these because this isn't how [TS]

  companies get rich anymore its [TS]

  proprietary exactly yeah I think we're [TS]

  never going to end up with another one [TS]

  of these like how you do if your [TS]

  Evernote database over there buddy [TS]

  doing good ya doing just great let me [TS]

  tell you a story about how I wanted to [TS]

  rearrange some tags on my iPhone and [TS]

  every now and then like oh oh great all [TS]

  the hierarchical information that I've [TS]

  put together on my Mac with the tags Oh [TS]

  none of that carries over to Evernote [TS]

  great thanks thanks Evernote that's that [TS]

  week this story for another time you're [TS]

  gonna hate this but my suggestion to you [TS]

  now is start over somewhere else and [TS]

  like everything new you add to the [TS]

  system goes in that place and everything [TS]

  old is in the legacy app and then over [TS]

  time you can let go ever know we can't [TS]

  have we can't have this conversation now [TS]

  like Mike you'd like you do not [TS]

  understand you do not understand the [TS]

  kind of legacy costs that I'm dealing [TS]

  with here right this is this is just now [TS]

  you've explained it to me I know I I [TS]

  have an idea right like I can i can [TS]

  understand but like it's not it's just [TS]

  not gonna work for you man like it's [TS]

  gonna die no no do you know what the gym [TS]

  what the problem is the problem is [TS]

  despite all of my frustrations it does [TS]

  still work for me right like when i'm [TS]

  trying to search for something this just [TS]

  just just happened the other day like [TS]

  i'm working on a video and i'm going to [TS]

  do a quick search for a thing as like oh [TS]

  great some notes I saved from like seven [TS]

  years ago turned up as a thing that was [TS]

  relevant to something that I'm doing now [TS]

  so is it that's the problems problems [TS]

  it's actually still useful to keep [TS]

  working like there is still like a [TS]

  system that can work right which is like [TS]

  RSS like emails plain text you know [TS]

  there are so many apps that build on [TS]

  plain text man I know that you have [TS]

  images right but you can also save [TS]

  folders of images and it's it's sloppy [TS]

  you know how many OCR bootleg [TS]

  screenshots of God about that I have [TS]

  right like I i have i have thousands of [TS]

  ocr'd pages from books that i have found [TS]

  interesting like it i cannot like that's [TS]

  the problem anyway this is your fault [TS]

  for bringing up Evernote I don't know [TS]

  how it got down another Evercore tangent [TS]

  here but what I was going to say [TS]

  originally is that while something like [TS]

  I [TS]

  map for tasks will never exist with all [TS]

  of these public API s and with your [TS]

  growing skills and web automation there [TS]

  is at least in theory the possibility [TS]

  that a future Mike when moving from [TS]

  todoist to some other program in the [TS]

  future he'll be able to write something [TS]

  that can at least do a basic transfer [TS]

  right that can that can comb through the [TS]

  database and then add tasks on the other [TS]

  end to be double-checked I did look into [TS]

  this a little bit like they're always to [TS]

  move from OmniFocus todoist mmm but it [TS]

  will still it still requires you to go [TS]

  through and tweak some stuff because [TS]

  they just don't talk to each other very [TS]

  well like at all even if you take the [TS]

  data out like the data OmniFocus gives [TS]

  is not really comfortable for to doest [TS]

  to accept so I still I know for my own [TS]

  pups I still would have gone through [TS]

  every task and made sure they were [TS]

  correct oh yeah yeah again this is this [TS]

  is not for now Mike I'm simply saying [TS]

  like there's the possibility for future [TS]

  Mike Mike four point oh yeah to API [TS]

  enabled to do apps could have a much [TS]

  easier transfer between them yeah then [TS]

  one app that has an API and another app [TS]

  that doesn't ah yes of course I see what [TS]

  you mean it's not only focus was never [TS]

  going to do any good but like yeah [TS]

  future application like both [TS]

  understanding the web right could yeah [TS]

  you're totally right no one the very [TS]

  best thing about to do list also houses [TS]

  I think it's very worst floor so to do [TS]

  its natural language entry is incredible [TS]

  like I press control in and I just start [TS]

  typing and then I press ENTER and the [TS]

  task is done and it has the due date it [TS]

  has the project it's all attached to it [TS]

  I love it it's like how fantastical [TS]

  change calendars to do is change task [TS]

  entry because you just you type to it [TS]

  you have to learn the language of the [TS]

  application a little bit right leg [TS]

  mm-hmm what is it that you need to do to [TS]

  add something to a project what do you [TS]

  need to do to add a label to it that [TS]

  kind of [TS]

  thing you know but it's brilliant but [TS]

  where it falls down is the way that you [TS]

  especially with repeating tasks like [TS]

  there is a specific language they have a [TS]

  website that will web page even in the [TS]

  application you can get a link which [TS]

  kind of tells you how do you say every [TS]

  second Tuesday or how do you say every [TS]

  first of the month right there are ways [TS]

  in which you say this stuff into the [TS]

  natural language and that's pretty [TS]

  normal of this stuff right where there [TS]

  is a language that it understands [TS]

  because then it's going to get it right [TS]

  and I totally understand that and you [TS]

  have to learn the language to be able to [TS]

  speak to it in that way it's like the [TS]

  same with like the Amazon echo right you [TS]

  speak to it in the ways that it [TS]

  understands and then you are good right [TS]

  right but the problem with to doest is [TS]

  with all of the repeating tasks stuff [TS]

  there's no UI yeah I've run into this as [TS]

  well so you can't change a thing unless [TS]

  you speak to it and that is crazy making [TS]

  to me like i have spent like 20 minutes [TS]

  trying to get a task to repeat in the [TS]

  right way because i keep telling it in [TS]

  the way that I think it should [TS]

  understand but it's still getting it [TS]

  wrong and I can't just click and then [TS]

  just just press a button like I could do [TS]

  in OmniFocus to get it to do that now [TS]

  omnifocus I could set it that way but I [TS]

  also couldn't speak to it right so [TS]

  there's like a give-and-take with it and [TS]

  everyone that I know that uses to do us [TS]

  is also frustrated about this but over [TS]

  time it becomes less of a problem as you [TS]

  learn more and more how to talk to it [TS]

  but they should also have the UI to be [TS]

  like repeat every second Tuesday yeah [TS]

  this this kind of stuff is really funny [TS]

  because the natural language processing [TS]

  is always oh it's fantastic when it [TS]

  works but when it doesn't work suddenly [TS]

  it's like you're in the 1970s talking to [TS]

  the terminal right you just you need to [TS]

  learn the magic incantations to say to [TS]

  make up do the thing and it's [TS]

  infuriating the problems lie and when [TS]

  there isn't a defined language when it's [TS]

  trying to infer your meaning right this [TS]

  is why a lot of people i think get [TS]

  frustrated it's eerie is that oh my god [TS]

  Siri I think tries to take more broad in [TS]

  put ya where the echo [TS]

  put ya where the echo [TS]

  you have to say things in a specific way [TS]

  so once you learn those things is more [TS]

  reliable so like I understand why it [TS]

  needs the specific language because then [TS]

  we're talking to each other in a way [TS]

  that we understand it's like I'm talking [TS]

  to you right now I'm not half of my [TS]

  words aren't French right right I have [TS]

  to speak to you in the language I know [TS]

  you're going to understand I get that [TS]

  but not having a you I fall back it's [TS]

  just just stupid I think I can't [TS]

  understand why you wouldn't have that [TS]

  yeah it is frustrating again I've I'm [TS]

  using it in a very different way but I [TS]

  was aware of that really fast that the [TS]

  lack of you I for certain aspects of the [TS]

  task is frustrating and it it also seems [TS]

  like you need this here so that I can [TS]

  learn when the language typing works and [TS]

  when it doesn't are so there can be a [TS]

  little feedback loop but like what do [TS]

  you think I said like how are you [TS]

  populating all of these fields based on [TS]

  what I'm typing into this box very very [TS]

  weird I mentioned statistics to do is [TS]

  has statistics which are kind of cool [TS]

  kind of pointless at the same time the [TS]

  pointless thing is something called [TS]

  Karma you are points over time and then [TS]

  you become like mega expert like I don't [TS]

  really know why they have this system [TS]

  doing why they have this system [TS]

  ramification I know that's the reason [TS]

  but it's like gamification is just like [TS]

  machine learning right it's magic that [TS]

  you sprinkle on to every product but [TS]

  thing about it is is the gamification [TS]

  does work because you know there's a [TS]

  part of me and it's like oh like I've [TS]

  just gone up a comma level like I am a [TS]

  master now you know like I am currently [TS]

  an expert to next is master than [TS]

  Grandmaster and then enlightened you [TS]

  know like it wasn't gonna get to the [TS]

  enlightened phase and an only to work [TS]

  anymore I think that's what that's what [TS]

  it's telling me they give you a big [TS]

  payout when you're done and then you've [TS]

  won you've won the game of productivity [TS]

  I think that's how it works but what I [TS]

  do like is that the statistics that they [TS]

  give you about like you can kind of tell [TS]

  it how many tasks you want to complete [TS]

  on an average day and then it has like a [TS]

  baseline and you can see when you breach [TS]

  over the baseline you get streaks going [TS]

  and stuff like that which i think is [TS]

  kind of interesting I can see how many [TS]

  tasks are completed in the last seven [TS]

  is an hour weekly basis the last four [TS]

  weeks and like I like seeing that [TS]

  because it's given me some trends but [TS]

  i'm using project snail gray something [TS]

  I've never done before but i'm using [TS]

  project since but one of the reasons is [TS]

  because it's easier for me to do this i [TS]

  don't i can just type it in and it takes [TS]

  like a second more for me to type in [TS]

  like the pound sign and then cortex and [TS]

  then is into a context project and I'm [TS]

  finding this just to be useful mostly [TS]

  for knowing where to find things so I [TS]

  know I have a task in the future instead [TS]

  of me searching for I hit the cortex one [TS]

  I don't know it's going to be in there [TS]

  and it's also interesting when I'm like [TS]

  I can't I don't really feel like doing [TS]

  this right now hey whats in my personal [TS]

  stuff like was my personal tag there [TS]

  easy things to do you know so that's [TS]

  that it's interesting to me to kind of [TS]

  put things in these buckets which is GTD [TS]

  101 right using projects but I just [TS]

  never done it before so i feel like i've [TS]

  upgraded my system it's interesting to [TS]

  me that anyone could have used OmniFocus [TS]

  for as long as as you did without ever [TS]

  really using projects it's it's so based [TS]

  around the notion of there are projects [TS]

  that it's almost inconceivable how you [TS]

  would even be using it without without [TS]

  projects as a fundamental part of the [TS]

  part of things so it's funny to me that [TS]

  todoist the application that seems like [TS]

  a projects whatever maybe you have them [TS]

  maybe you don't this is the one that has [TS]

  has you now using projects more yeah it [TS]

  is weird but is purely because of the [TS]

  entry like I can get it in easier I [TS]

  don't have to tap more stuff and spend [TS]

  more time see it's just it's just like [TS]

  automation right you've reduce the [TS]

  friction to do something and then you [TS]

  are more likely to take advantage of it [TS]

  so yeah I am very pleased with todoist [TS]

  overall it like with anything like I'm [TS]

  critical of it because I really liked it [TS]

  so I want it to be better mm-hmm if I [TS]

  didn't have any complaints that's more [TS]

  an issue I think right like I think I i [TS]

  want to have complaints about the thing [TS]

  because it means i'm pushing it means [TS]

  i'm using it right lover than she's been [TS]

  like yes fine whatever like I don't have [TS]

  any feelings for it in that way but I [TS]

  have feelings for this application [TS]

  because I think it's very cool [TS]

  a lot of the stuff that it does but it [TS]

  has work to go but I am one hundred [TS]

  percent sold I'm not moving back to [TS]

  OmniFocus like this is my system I have [TS]

  absolutely no desire to move back I am [TS]

  completely sold on this because the [TS]

  things this app does better know so much [TS]

  better and the things that it doesn't do [TS]

  as well and maybe not as bad as I [TS]

  initially thought that they would be hmm [TS]

  it's interesting it's an interesting [TS]

  interesting verdict no more OmniFocus [TS]

  for Mike no not as I said really I don't [TS]

  know what it would take for me to move [TS]

  back like I just don't think it's gonna [TS]

  be on my horizon like OmniFocus is a [TS]

  better iOS application than todoist [TS]

  hands down that the apps are amazing [TS]

  like on the Mac it's just a web app [TS]

  little wrapper like it's even more like [TS]

  funny than how it is on iOS where it's [TS]

  it's still an iOS application as you say [TS]

  but like it's it's not completely native [TS]

  I doesn't feel it doesn't feel natives [TS]

  there tryna unify this experience but on [TS]

  the Mac it's just like this is just like [TS]

  straight up like that but I just love [TS]

  all of the bits around it all of the [TS]

  stuff that makes the application work is [TS]

  so interesting to me because there's so [TS]

  many things happening in the background [TS]

  I'm just really and kind of just smitten [TS]

  about all of that honestly like I think [TS]

  that it is a much better system for Mike [TS]

  of 2017 than anything else is yeah it's [TS]

  it's been very interesting just to play [TS]

  around with this like I have a hard time [TS]

  imagining using to do is to my primary [TS]

  system but I've just been very [TS]

  interested to play around with it and to [TS]

  be using it as the communication device [TS]

  between my assistant and I were we're [TS]

  tracking what's going on is it just [TS]

  because there's not enough tinkering [TS]

  available it's a hard app to be [TS]

  particular with its yet it's a difficult [TS]

  app to be particular with they do have [TS]

  filters which are these ways of pre [TS]

  searching through a bunch of tasks which [TS]

  are are comparable to OmniFocus but i [TS]

  would say they are [TS]

  much less powerful than I first thought [TS]

  because there's some weird limitations [TS]

  on combining certain kinds of queries [TS]

  that that make it a little bit hard to [TS]

  use but yeah it is it is difficult to be [TS]

  particular with but I really do find [TS]

  myself just just interesting and [TS]

  thinking about this this whole concept [TS]

  of apps that are really web services [TS]

  with api's and it is also a thing in in [TS]

  thinking about the future there there [TS]

  may be some kind of thing that I could [TS]

  do where you don't even really have to [TS]

  interact with a nap so directly because [TS]

  you're able to write little things that [TS]

  interact with it indirectly in exactly [TS]

  the way that you want to every time you [TS]

  know III don't know I don't know where [TS]

  I'm going to end up I don't predicts [TS]

  that I'm going to go to to-do list as my [TS]

  primary application in the future but I [TS]

  do have to say as as this trial between [TS]

  my assistant and I it has been very [TS]

  successful and it's a really great tool [TS]

  to be using between the two of us so I [TS]

  think it definitely has a place in my [TS]

  life going forward but perhaps not the [TS]

  primary place right but who knows we'll [TS]

  see like I web api is maybe one of those [TS]

  features that over time just become so [TS]

  increasingly valuable that it Dwarfs all [TS]

  other considerations I've got to say [TS]

  like if I was gonna put money on this [TS]

  opal money that you end up in todoist [TS]

  because if Web API is becoming that more [TS]

  of an important tool for you you will [TS]

  just get more and more annoyed that your [TS]

  app that your that your GT application [TS]

  your task manager you what I think of [TS]

  for me and I think it's same for you the [TS]

  center of all of my work mm-hmm has no [TS]

  hooks and really from what I've seen the [TS]

  doest is the one in this area so it [TS]

  would it would surprise me you know like [TS]

  you may [TS]

  that building like a weird system that [TS]

  uses these web api is to mock all of [TS]

  these due dates and start dates stuff [TS]

  for you for the rights of course like [TS]

  that's exactly what I start thinking of [TS]

  is like well but if you can i maybe [TS]

  there's a way to automate that you could [TS]

  and that might be an interesting way to [TS]

  deal with that like you just you just [TS]

  enter a task into somewhere and it will [TS]

  appear in to do us at some point in the [TS]

  future but I would be surprised honestly [TS]

  like if in a year you're used to using [TS]

  something else because if this [TS]

  automation stuff is becoming as [TS]

  important to you as I think it is it [TS]

  would be it would be surprising for me [TS]

  if you then just let your to-do app not [TS]

  worry about that stuff yeah I don't know [TS]

  I'm I'll be interested to find out what [TS]

  future me does at least in the time that [TS]

  I have spent so far I have consistently [TS]

  noticed that I have conflicting needs [TS]

  and requirements for high-level and [TS]

  low-level looking at tasks there's [TS]

  something there that I haven't quite [TS]

  settled on that I don't quite have [TS]

  requirements for yet there's something [TS]

  brewing I don't know well we'll see [TS]

  we'll see what happens but to do is [TS]

  definitely has a place in my life we'll [TS]

  just see how how primary it it becomes [TS]

  or doesn't in the future thank you to [TS]

  FreshBooks for supporting this week's [TS]

  episode of cortex life as a freelancer [TS]

  can be challenging but our friends over [TS]

  at freshbooks believe the rewards are [TS]

  worth it and they try and build tools [TS]

  that make this challenging life easier [TS]

  you know you could be racing to wrap up [TS]

  free projects while also trying to [TS]

  remember to track the time on them [TS]

  because you're also working on building [TS]

  out a new productivity system also [TS]

  whilst trying to tackle that mountain of [TS]

  paperwork and the working world is [TS]

  different now the growth of the internet [TS]

  means that there's more opportunities [TS]

  for everyone to be self-employed that is [TS]

  why FreshBooks was worked tirelessly on [TS]

  an all new version of the cloud [TS]

  accounting software that is tailored for [TS]

  those of us that work online but and [TS]

  also helps us deal with all of those [TS]

  huge long lists of tasks that we have [TS]

  day you'll be more productive and more [TS]

  organized whilst also being paid quickly [TS]

  FreshBooks customers get paid up to four [TS]

  days faster on average and it's so [TS]

  simple and so easy to get your invoices [TS]

  sent out there you'll have online [TS]

  payments set up in just a couple of [TS]

  clicks and your invoices will be built [TS]

  in their WYSIWYG interface you'll see [TS]

  them exactly how your clients going to [TS]

  see them too no more guessing games [TS]

  involved in your invoices because we're [TS]

  freshbooks you'll be able to see when [TS]

  your client a senior invoice and you'll [TS]

  have a full track of everything that's [TS]

  been going up with it every time you log [TS]

  into freshbooks you get notifications to [TS]

  update you on what's change and what [TS]

  needs your attention freshbooks has been [TS]

  designed with the aerial question in [TS]

  mind of how is my business doing no more [TS]

  guessing games of what's odor over do [TS]

  they let you know exactly and clearly [TS]

  freshbooks is offering a 30-day trial of [TS]

  unrestricted free use for listeners of [TS]

  this show go to freshbooks calm / cortex [TS]

  and in how you heard about a section [TS]

  just type in the word cortex so they [TS]

  know that you came to them from this [TS]

  show thank you to freshbooks for their [TS]

  support of this show and relay FM one of [TS]

  the things that happened because of our [TS]

  doubling up episodes was that between [TS]

  those episodes and now we put up the [TS]

  application to hire an administrative [TS]

  assistant relay FM which is something we [TS]

  been talking about for a while and I [TS]

  wanted to talk about on the show but I [TS]

  also wanted to get it done and I figured [TS]

  maybe we'd keep the application open [TS]

  until the show until we recorded a new [TS]

  episode mm-hmm then we got over 100 [TS]

  responses so we decided to shut it down [TS]

  shut it down do you insisting to help [TS]

  you get through all of those [TS]

  applications oh I felt it um I did put [TS]

  the I did put it in the show notes for [TS]

  the last week's episode and I know that [TS]

  a bunch of people found it because of [TS]

  that because of the applications [TS]

  increasing after the episode went out so [TS]

  we did that but um I felt like a hunched [TS]

  over a hundred applications was enough [TS]

  that that seems like enough to get [TS]

  started at the very least yeah and if it [TS]

  isn't well we can just do it all over [TS]

  again but we had the application up for [TS]

  about a week also and again this is like [TS]

  a refresher so awesome we'll be working [TS]

  with [TS]

  me primarily to help me with some of the [TS]

  administrative that goes around the [TS]

  business side of relay FM you know so [TS]

  working with companies and helping me [TS]

  like with booking in stuff into systems [TS]

  and things like that so so kind of [TS]

  helping me and assisting me so I can [TS]

  focus on some other stuff we made a [TS]

  really good decision when we probs [TS]

  application to create a standalone email [TS]

  address for this yeah that's probably a [TS]

  good decision because then I assigned [TS]

  him to the email address in a separate [TS]

  application that wasn't my email app so [TS]

  then I didn't have to see all these [TS]

  emails coming in and that meant I could [TS]

  just kind of go and read them in chunks [TS]

  of time you know as opposed to like them [TS]

  coming in constantly a hundred emails I [TS]

  really would have felt that you know I [TS]

  really would have felt that increase [TS]

  over the weekend definitely things would [TS]

  have gotten lost in my email inbox if if [TS]

  they were coming in just through the [TS]

  regular email addresses that we use so [TS]

  that ended up being a good thing and [TS]

  kind of maybe over like three or four [TS]

  sessions went through all of them went [TS]

  through all of the applications real [TS]

  walls of text like that gets it's tough [TS]

  because I feel like you kind of have to [TS]

  pay attention right like you really have [TS]

  to pay attention to all of them yeah [TS]

  Aggie you are in a much more difficult [TS]

  position here hiring the assistant that [TS]

  I wasn't hiring the animator yeah [TS]

  because with hiring the animator I'm [TS]

  asking for a demonstration of your skill [TS]

  mm-hmm I think with with any kind of job [TS]

  hiring like that that's actually what [TS]

  you want I was reading actually reading [TS]

  some article about hiring where they're [TS]

  proposing is this radical idea that if [TS]

  if the job you're trying to hire for has [TS]

  an actual skill I have the person do [TS]

  some demonstration of the scale and it's [TS]

  like yeah of course look if you do that [TS]

  like that's that's what you want to do [TS]

  like that's that makes things a thousand [TS]

  times easier but I do not envy you in [TS]

  this position because most jobs there is [TS]

  no way that the person can really [TS]

  demonstrate their skill in a meaningful [TS]

  way ahead of time brother you can't have [TS]

  this person [TS]

  demonstrate their ability to be an [TS]

  assistant for relay before they are the [TS]

  assistant for relay there was one thing [TS]

  but we did I won't say what it was but [TS]

  there was a requirement in the [TS]

  application that was not very over but [TS]

  it was there and the people that didn't [TS]

  do that thing loves a was good over them [TS]

  yeah I mean that that's just a first [TS]

  pass filter for that's hell no detail [TS]

  noticing yeah we've all we've all done [TS]

  things like that right where there's a [TS]

  is this person paying attention yester [TS]

  right and is it man that's gonna be kind [TS]

  of important as time goes on right like [TS]

  the person that is gonna be a cystic [TS]

  name needs to listen to me like [TS]

  otherwise this isn't gonna work so yeah [TS]

  otherwise it's not going to work but so [TS]

  I guess what I kind of want to know is [TS]

  being in this difficult position not [TS]

  being able to have a clear demonstration [TS]

  of skill ahead of time how how were you [TS]

  assessing these applications one good [TS]

  thing was I read them all Stephen read [TS]

  them all look so we amassed a group of [TS]

  people mmm that we both like them we [TS]

  were able to cross-reference them so [TS]

  anyone that came up in both of us right [TS]

  where that was a good application if [TS]

  they didn't then me and him would maybe [TS]

  argue that person right okay who would [TS]

  go to interview so that was one good [TS]

  part of it because there are some [TS]

  candidates where I've put a lot more [TS]

  full into them than others because I had [TS]

  to argue it so that was an interesting [TS]

  part of it as we were kind of discussing [TS]

  who should go to the entry stage it was [TS]

  just a lot of really hard and at some [TS]

  point mind-numbing work because there is [TS]

  a way to write a resume or CV that [TS]

  pretty much everybody follows and [TS]

  because it's the way these things should [TS]

  be written as a lot of repetition an [TS]

  awful lot of repetition mm-hmm and for [TS]

  me the ones that really stuck out was [TS]

  when somebody did something in the email [TS]

  or in the cover letter to stoop that [TS]

  that made them stand out [TS]

  because there are also a lot of people [TS]

  that were like you know I really love [TS]

  the shows that you do and suffering is [TS]

  what I like him so I don't know which is [TS]

  nice because they're showing that they [TS]

  understand it but that also became like [TS]

  a thing that a lot of people were using [TS]

  so there was just a few candidates that [TS]

  what they wrote grabbed me and I can't [TS]

  explain why mm-hmm but it was just like [TS]

  I feel like I could work with this [TS]

  person like there was just a feeling in [TS]

  the way that they were expressing [TS]

  themselves which was just something that [TS]

  made sense now this isn't a weird notion [TS]

  to me because I've done this before I've [TS]

  hired people in the bank job so it's the [TS]

  same kind of deal right the all resumes [TS]

  look the same you know within a margin [TS]

  but they all kind of sale of the same [TS]

  kind of things mmm but it's the people [TS]

  that kind of just they they display [TS]

  something about themselves in the way [TS]

  that they explain themselves for me the [TS]

  explanation part is what's interesting [TS]

  how somebody talks about themselves it's [TS]

  so difficult right but like I wasn't [TS]

  looking for someone who was to corporate [TS]

  and I wasn't looking for someone who was [TS]

  being zany for the sake of being zany [TS]

  right but it's somewhere in the middle [TS]

  look like I wanted that person to like [TS]

  in prose give me an idea of their [TS]

  personality and they were the ones that [TS]

  kind of were able to jump through so [TS]

  that was what made it interesting even [TS]

  though it is hard work isn't the right [TS]

  word but it's like intensive work which [TS]

  is very repetitive you know so it was it [TS]

  was a tough process but the people that [TS]

  kind of spoke out to me especially with [TS]

  the ones that were able to kind of shine [TS]

  in some way in a way that cannot at all [TS]

  be quantified but that's what makes it [TS]

  interesting if you can quantify it then [TS]

  it would be easy right everyone could do [TS]

  it yeah i mean i would prefer that there [TS]

  was some way to quantify it rightly like [TS]

  like it's you know like it's World of [TS]

  Warcraft and you're logging in you can [TS]

  see oh there's this person rolled a 20 [TS]

  in personal administration skills great [TS]

  right that's that is actually what I [TS]

  prefer but that's not the world that we [TS]

  live in [TS]

  so how are you going to filter down then [TS]

  from the people that you have assessed [TS]

  fit the role or interview so we have a [TS]

  percentage of the applicants now that we [TS]

  have worked in interviews for I want to [TS]

  say how many there are I was gonna say [TS]

  what percentage Mike I want to know a [TS]

  percentage a presented of people but [TS]

  what I will say is it's gonna take us [TS]

  two and a half days to do this the [TS]

  interviews how are you doing the full [TS]

  who process that full how to hire [TS]

  someone from the who book ammonia looks [TS]

  like a player's gray yeah no I just want [TS]

  to speak to all these people because the [TS]

  next part of it is how do we communicate [TS]

  so you're doing I presume like FaceTime [TS]

  interviews that yes that's what's [TS]

  occurring yeah it was an interesting [TS]

  decision do we do audio or video hmm and [TS]

  I've decided to do video primarily just [TS]

  so I can get more of a feel for the [TS]

  person although we will probably never [TS]

  communicate visually right so me and [TS]

  this person will most likely communicate [TS]

  ninety-nine percent of the time for her [TS]

  text mm-hmm but I wanna get a sense of [TS]

  the person and I think the easiest way [TS]

  to do that is to do this over video and [TS]

  I think it also gives that person the [TS]

  same from us is they get to get more of [TS]

  a sense of us because they can see body [TS]

  language they can see how we react to [TS]

  things like it's just more expressive [TS]

  and I think it's just a bit more of an [TS]

  interesting way to do this as opposed to [TS]

  like just exchanging e-mails back and [TS]

  forth all having a phone call yeah it's [TS]

  it's a more broadband way of [TS]

  communicating than a narrow band way yep [TS]

  there's less likelihood of things being [TS]

  misunderstood i think and i also just in [TS]

  case this is something we do end up [TS]

  doing in the future I want to establish [TS]

  this it's the first contact you know who [TS]

  rather than like at some point [TS]

  individual be like hey can we have a [TS]

  video cooks it could be weird right like [TS]

  if we already ever communicate but I [TS]

  just want to start off like this is the [TS]

  first contact that we've had and then we [TS]

  move on forward from there I'm realizing [TS]

  my assistant and I have [TS]

  never done a video chat with each other [TS]

  and it would be it would be strange I [TS]

  probably noir that ever ever will never [TS]

  was i don't see why i would want to do [TS]

  it bong i I just want it to be this way [TS]

  initially we're going to have a [TS]

  three-person call we may as well do it [TS]

  by video mm-hmm everyone gets to see the [TS]

  nice blue wall behind me you know the [TS]

  backdrop oh it's the thrice is gonna be [TS]

  a mega office it's gonna be at mega [TS]

  office you know it's a serious business [TS]

  I don't know I don't know why it would [TS]

  be any other place of course of course [TS]

  it's been interesting trying to work out [TS]

  the questions I mean are you gonna ask [TS]

  like Google style brain Jesus how many [TS]

  manhole covers are there in New York [TS]

  City yeah it's like oh you have a bag of [TS]

  grain and a fox and a duck on the shore [TS]

  and you're trying to cross the river but [TS]

  you can only take one thing at a time [TS]

  what order do you do it is that what [TS]

  you're gonna ask people yes just it's [TS]

  just brain teasers I really want to [TS]

  establish the idea that the Riddler [TS]

  could be working with them at any moment [TS]

  you know yeah right no it is purely I've [TS]

  looked at like I've googled like [TS]

  interview questions right just to give [TS]

  like yet like an idea like what are the [TS]

  standards because I think there are [TS]

  reasons why people ask similar questions [TS]

  so I've got some of those in there and [TS]

  also just as a way to kind of like guide [TS]

  my thinking cuz there's a definite [TS]

  practice around this whether it works or [TS]

  not people have done it for so long [TS]

  there must be some benefit to it because [TS]

  honestly like interviews all of this [TS]

  stuff is so weird because you just get [TS]

  these small slices of a person but then [TS]

  you start working with them every day [TS]

  mmm right and then you find out who they [TS]

  are but I figure I may as well try and [TS]

  follow at least some of the process that [TS]

  I've done before that i knows worked [TS]

  right which is resumes phone interview [TS]

  right or resumes and a face-to-face [TS]

  interview you know that kind of thing [TS]

  and what I expect will happen is we'll [TS]

  go through all of this and there will be [TS]

  more than one person that sticks out and [TS]

  then we'll baby do like a second like [TS]

  phone call just to go through some other [TS]

  little parts that may pop up because [TS]

  what I also know is the questions I [TS]

  asking interview one will be different [TS]

  to the questions that I ask an interview [TS]

  x-rite like a few interviews down the [TS]

  line so there may be some like extra [TS]

  crash [TS]

  don't want to ask certain people to see [TS]

  what they're like you know because it's [TS]

  definitely going to be an evolving [TS]

  process as it goes over those couple of [TS]

  days like I do not expect the questions [TS]

  to remain exactly the same because [TS]

  someone will say something which will [TS]

  spark a question which all that might [TS]

  have been good to ask they have a person [TS]

  you know mm-hmm but trying to work out [TS]

  like how to understand if I can work [TS]

  well with someone based upon some [TS]

  questions that I'm thinking about in [TS]

  advance is very difficult yeah I mean [TS]

  this I've never done this kind of thing [TS]

  but I imagine you must know that the [TS]

  questions are a framework to get a sense [TS]

  of how well you can work together right [TS]

  is it that the answer is matter but they [TS]

  matter maybe thirty percent yeah and [TS]

  it's it's more the way the person is [TS]

  explaining themselves I I'm imagining [TS]

  that that's probably what it's like to [TS]

  do to do these kinds of things it is the [TS]

  quits it's like the resume the content [TS]

  of the resume is not important to me [TS]

  it's the way it's being presented to me [TS]

  mmm i like how is this person describing [TS]

  things so it's like all these questions [TS]

  most of the answers they're not really [TS]

  that important because most people will [TS]

  answer these things the same because [TS]

  they think they know what the answer [TS]

  should be mmm but it's the way in which [TS]

  the person explains what they're [TS]

  explaining is why I'm interested in so [TS]

  we'll see how I want to talk about when [TS]

  I give people tips right this could be [TS]

  out there grey listen no you know you [TS]

  can't you can't give interview tips the [TS]

  answer is number 62 that's what you need [TS]

  to tell me that's the code yeah and as [TS]

  as always with these things it's also a [TS]

  matter of who is your competition as [TS]

  well all right like that's that's what's [TS]

  going on like on my on my job interviews [TS]

  that was the thing that I was the most [TS]

  obsessed with was finding out who the [TS]

  other applicants were she create like a [TS]

  virtual waiting room right you know like [TS]

  you you go into a job interview and [TS]

  everyone sitting there yeah like that [TS]

  you know for this application they won't [TS]

  they won't have that advantage but it's [TS]

  like yeah I remember I remember one job [TS]

  I was just like I was able to see who [TS]

  the other applicants were I was like oh [TS]

  I've owned this like I know I'm gonna [TS]

  win this because the game is about [TS]

  being better than these other people not [TS]

  necessarily about being the best yeah I [TS]

  fooled that once can get the job done [TS]

  yeah see I did get the job yeah I know [TS]

  how to play the game better than I do no [TS]

  you're the you're the corporate master [TS]

  here Mike so much of it is like I'm just [TS]

  seeing what happens because I don't [TS]

  really know what comes after these [TS]

  interviews right what do we do next and [TS]

  then houses all this start and then [TS]

  how'd it miss me in this person start [TS]

  working together and when do we start [TS]

  working together and what are the hours [TS]

  that we work to get it's all good it's [TS]

  all so up in the air but now that we're [TS]

  really seriously approaching this as [TS]

  opposed to it just being this idea that [TS]

  I've had it is interesting genuinely [TS]

  exciting and quite a challenge yeah I [TS]

  have to say I'm really glad that you've [TS]

  started this like this is a thing that [TS]

  we have had private conversations about [TS]

  for a long time yeah horse like you need [TS]

  to get someone to help you but error [TS]

  there is a time at which you can do it [TS]

  yeah and it's like the economics have to [TS]

  make sense and also for me I needed the [TS]

  moment of like I can't do this anymore [TS]

  like this is too much if I don't get [TS]

  someone to help me things won't work as [TS]

  well right like that for me at least [TS]

  that needed to happen I think that needs [TS]

  to happen for everybody you know cuz [TS]

  then you also get a clearer idea of what [TS]

  you actually need someone to do yeah it [TS]

  seems like nobody hires someone right at [TS]

  the moment when it would be best to hire [TS]

  that person right you hire a retroactive [TS]

  exactly every every hiring that's ever [TS]

  made is made at least six months later [TS]

  than it should have been made yeah [TS]

  that's that's I think that's just [TS]

  natural that's a natural part of it and [TS]

  I have it's like anybody who's listening [TS]

  to us right now if you're even thinking [TS]

  maybe I need to hire some was like yes [TS]

  the answer is yes the answer is it's too [TS]

  late for you so yeah no one no one no [TS]

  one does it at the right time I think so [TS]

  maybe gray actually I think very [TS]

  strongly by the next time we talk I will [TS]

  have higher than a system very exciting [TS]

  good luck to the assistant if they [TS]

  happen to be listening [TS]