Roderick on the Line

Ep. 238: "We're Not Farmers"


  [Music] [TS]

  I'm Merlin hi John oh whoa i did a [TS]

  little switcheroo did you see that yeah [TS]

  now you got a guy keep the fresh I mean [TS]

  it's weird it's weird i don't think i've [TS]

  ever done that in the long time Leland [TS]

  your guard down you're relaxed I do feel [TS]

  a little bit like my guard is down oh no [TS]

  you feel vulnerable I feel a little [TS]

  vulnerable yeah no I'm sorry I'll be [TS]

  gentle today thank you how's John doing [TS]

  ah you should do some self care of ya [TS]

  i'm sitting here holding up holding a [TS]

  half squeeze tube of athletic shoe and [TS]

  boot patch goop I'm still processing [TS]

  that sense um a city that's the kind of [TS]

  that's the kind of stuff that's gonna [TS]

  put me back together I can't believe you [TS]

  could even get get a sentence like that [TS]

  out I uh I scheduled an appt today oh [TS]

  okay right now gone on my calendar oh [TS]

  okay oh boy we're off to the races you [TS]

  know you know how i ended up my calendar [TS]

  right yeah oh sure i'm on the receiving [TS]

  end of it a lot of the time hey hey no [TS]

  it's very helpful well you know Oh bull [TS]

  you know time is a flat circle yes it is [TS]

  you gotta respect time it keeps on [TS]

  tricking cuz you you don't you don't get [TS]

  to bend it to your will time you got to [TS]

  be there for time time time will not [TS]

  wait for you time time flowing like a [TS]

  river time even before I realized [TS]

  according to twitter today is I don't [TS]

  know international nap day I just [TS]

  realized there's there's two things that [TS]

  I know that I've got to do I gotta just [TS]

  do I got eat more protein and I need [TS]

  tick naps is that right you've decided [TS]

  that naps are now not a luxury but uh [TS]

  but a necessity they're not a necessity [TS]

  but it's well it's kind of complicated [TS]

  but I as much as I am an advocate for [TS]

  naps and most people are not a lot of [TS]

  people I know do not like taking [TS]

  naps they don't like the idea of naps I [TS]

  think most of us share a secret shame [TS]

  about napping mom which is that I was [TS]

  with you with secret shame well yeah [TS]

  well you know its secrets secret shame [TS]

  I'm still waking up the other take a nap [TS]

  but it's very early it's very early and [TS]

  I think the people are understandably [TS]

  naps feel like weakness it feels like a [TS]

  lack of strength and vigor and i think [TS]

  that's it that's a young person's game I [TS]

  I do and it's you know people like to [TS]

  joke you know with the person about [TS]

  getting older and that's okay that's [TS]

  just something a young person does but [TS]

  you know the truth is that like I don't [TS]

  have the energy that I used to have and [TS]

  I have certain prophylactics that I put [TS]

  in place to deal with that and one of [TS]

  those is getting a little bit of walking [TS]

  exercise which has been really hard [TS]

  because it's rained and rained it rained [TS]

  in the past few months but you know two [TS]

  of them are this is really boring but [TS]

  two of them are like I need to eat more [TS]

  protein and less of the other things and [TS]

  i'm going to occasionally have the [TS]

  temerity to put a nap on my calendar and [TS]

  make every attempt to actually honor it [TS]

  right on the calendar because go so [TS]

  finally the reason I'm doing this is [TS]

  that what happens instead is I futz [TS]

  around I look at the internet I start to [TS]

  read a book that's not a nap I listen to [TS]

  the beatles and pretty soon it's 315 [TS]

  yeah and I gotta pick up my kid which is [TS]

  the thing that I do and I happily do but [TS]

  then I say to myself I say oh I'll get a [TS]

  nap after I bring her home and that sure [TS]

  now almost never works and if it does [TS]

  work I feel bad she feels bad she can [TS]

  she's already know you were sleeping and [TS]

  I feel now I really do feel like a like [TS]

  a like a layabout as he said yeah you're [TS]

  just goofing around yeah so I'm gonna [TS]

  try getting in an hour-ish nap and I'm [TS]

  gonna see how it goes being on the [TS]

  schedule I didn't mean so not like a [TS]

  podcast but that's the thing that I'm [TS]

  going to try tell me about when is the [TS]

  nap scheduled experience in these [TS]

  matters all right let me go look what [TS]

  were the hours what you've got an hour [TS]

  I got I gonna talk to John Roderick from [TS]

  me from 10 to a little before noon I'll [TS]

  slice this bitch up put as i like to say [TS]

  i put it on the internet but right i put [TS]

  it on the internet and then the nap that [TS]

  i have planned is for about 1 15 oh wow [TS]

  you're just gonna get off the podcast as [TS]

  you say slice this bitch up yeah quotes [TS]

  and which is funny because it's neither [TS]

  a bitch north sliced no I don't just you [TS]

  know I make a little couple cups cuts i [TS]

  put in that sugar from San song and then [TS]

  it's just it's on the Internet is that [TS]

  doesn't sound like something Adam lizard [TS]

  Gore would have said so it's not it's [TS]

  not from the past no it's just your [TS]

  missus gets old thinking it's all [TS]

  thinking but no so yeah and then you're [TS]

  gonna go boom right into the nap too I'm [TS]

  trying to give myself a little bit time [TS]

  to go home maybe have some protein try [TS]

  to eat more protein and because one [TS]

  thing I know here's a life hack one life [TS]

  hack i know i learned this yesterday is [TS]

  if i eat a big midday meal i give very [TS]

  tired oh yeah but like yesterday i had a [TS]

  great run farmers Merlin it's not like [TS]

  you just came in from the plow we like [TS]

  to think we like to think we're farmers [TS]

  yeah Oh or meet a hearty Moor more gravy [TS]

  ma ma I love me some biscuits no that's [TS]

  not what we austere day I did that thing [TS]

  i do where i took my daughter out to [TS]

  lunch and i had had a you know had my [TS]

  multiple sauce deployment system so i [TS]

  had a patty melt with with french fries [TS]

  and then i had ketchup mayonnaise and a [TS]

  side a monkey dish of white gravy uh-huh [TS]

  dipping yeah and then i had no problem [TS]

  taking the one-hour nap yesterday but [TS]

  see now that is a nap under duress that [TS]

  is a body you know you're shutting down [TS]

  oh you it's like we got to get out of [TS]

  Hoth we can i start loading up the ships [TS]

  and get out of here hmm well let me tell [TS]

  you let me tell you as a long time uh as [TS]

  long time super napper hmm I've got I've [TS]

  got a few things to say about this I [TS]

  want to hear every single one own well [TS]

  it turns out [TS]

  that in fact an hour nap is this is I'm [TS]

  getting right into some some deep life [TS]

  hack territory here it sounds to me like [TS]

  you're verging into what I'm going to [TS]

  call science we're gonna get into a [TS]

  little bit of nap science okay an hour [TS]

  it turns out is not the optimal nap [TS]

  duration mm-hmm that a nap it seems like [TS]

  the benefits of a nap would only [TS]

  increase as you increased the length of [TS]

  the nap as far as what it seems like [TS]

  right doesn't that seem like well 45 [TS]

  minute nap is good an hour nap is going [TS]

  to be better okay but naps are there are [TS]

  different kinds of naps and what you [TS]

  want to do is is get the restorative [TS]

  benefit of the nap talk about like a [TS]

  disco nap I drop the spoon kind well [TS]

  there's there so there are there are [TS]

  there are little sort of pockets that [TS]

  are based basically on your on your [TS]

  brainwaves let's be honest we're talking [TS]

  about brain waves now and you want to [TS]

  get in and get out but if you can't get [TS]

  out can't get in get out then you gotta [TS]

  stay in until the next opportunity get [TS]

  out I've heard this and I have believed [TS]

  this for years I'm gonna be honest with [TS]

  you i preached this for years the most [TS]

  people have a sleep cycle i learned this [TS]

  in college i was told in college by a [TS]

  cognitive psych psych professor that [TS]

  everybody has a slightly different wave [TS]

  thing i'm going to call it as a science [TS]

  term but that most people have a sleep [TS]

  cycle that comes down to increments of [TS]

  about 90 minutes mm-hmm and he would say [TS]

  this is the thing that you can exploit [TS]

  so if you're driving for a really long [TS]

  time and i don't mean to hijack your [TS]

  topic but this is what I've always heard [TS]

  was you could pull over and if you know [TS]

  your cycle you know is 90 minutes you [TS]

  sleep for exactly exactly 90 minutes you [TS]

  get through a full cycle that's not as [TS]

  good as eight hours of sleep but it's [TS]

  way closer to eight hours of sleep than [TS]

  an hour is more or conversely two hours [TS]

  two hours not good because now you're [TS]

  you're breaking up your our EMS yeah you [TS]

  can't break up your REM because then you [TS]

  got ya bilberry out driving tractors the [TS]

  drummer you get this guy over here [TS]

  let's go over here now you're done todos [TS]

  santos that I've heard that for one T [TS]

  almost 30 years and the only thing i've [TS]

  heard against that is our mutual friend [TS]

  max Temkin know somebody who is a sleep [TS]

  researcher who says that's kind of [TS]

  bullshit I still think I believe that [TS]

  that's probably true and yet and yet and [TS]

  yet alas studied yet John really really [TS]

  really still waking up I'm sorry well so [TS]

  much my experience has been as I've as [TS]

  I've explored all the naps mm-hmm is [TS]

  that truly a five-minute nap has the [TS]

  power of a thousand naps Cartman nap [TS]

  which is which seems completely against [TS]

  all what were all intuition but a [TS]

  five-minute nap is a mind-blowing little [TS]

  like Jim Jam just like you're hitting [TS]

  reset it's just a reset you go down and [TS]

  there's a you know and that that it you [TS]

  lay down your immediately like because [TS]

  when when you're this isn't an app where [TS]

  you like all right I've got to make [TS]

  myself nap and you lay down your feet [TS]

  are jamming and you're like a heard that [TS]

  called a Churchill nap a Churchill nap [TS]

  is where you act like you're going to [TS]

  sleep you take off your clothes maybe [TS]

  you put on your jammy jams you shudder [TS]

  all the blinds you act like you're going [TS]

  to sleep like in a hotel room that's the [TS]

  launcher chill nap but you're describing [TS]

  something more of what I've heard called [TS]

  dropping the spoon which is its when you [TS]

  lay in the hammock you got a spoon your [TS]

  hand over a plate I know this sounds [TS]

  weird and as soon as you drop the spoon [TS]

  it hits the plate and you wake up kind [TS]

  of like inception but that is enough for [TS]

  you to basically restart your Mac is [TS]

  what you're saying yeah I'm if you need [TS]

  a nap which I which I so often do you're [TS]

  like you're like oh fuck I need a nap [TS]

  and you decide this I do this all the [TS]

  time in a chair you know and that talk [TS]

  about getting talking about getting old [TS]

  talk about being mocked by young people [TS]

  my millennium girlfriend works with a [TS]

  group of lawyers [TS]

  in a little room and they all think [TS]

  they're real special these lawyers [TS]

  they're all in their 30s let's say yes [TS]

  let's say they're in their early 30s [TS]

  late 20s a bunch of accomplished lawyers [TS]

  who work in a room and it's the time [TS]

  it's you know it's in a place where they [TS]

  keep the windows open so you imagine [TS]

  there's a little bit of sea breeze [TS]

  wafting through there and they have [TS]

  started teasing her for dating an older [TS]

  gentleman uh-huh in the form of me and [TS]

  they've started referring to me as [TS]

  people that's yeah how do you like that [TS]

  FIFA house people that's actually really [TS]

  funny you know there are bunch of smarty [TS]

  pants as they all went to Ivy League [TS]

  schools and they think they know [TS]

  something that I that I don't know [TS]

  there's nothing think they got it all [TS]

  figured out yeah they think they know [TS]

  some things I think you know I petoskey [TS]

  man I'm like and I'm sitting I'm sitting [TS]

  somewhere far away going oh yeah people [TS]

  I was pretty good actually I you know [TS]

  I'm dipping my corncob pipe and some [TS]

  dish soap blowing bubbles all across the [TS]

  yard look people is doing but but I lay [TS]

  back and I'm your eyes go shut and boom [TS]

  you're asleep right if you really need a [TS]

  nap boom you're asleep right and then [TS]

  that first that first little jolt which [TS]

  happens really quickly we're like well [TS]

  look oh I should know that thing where [TS]

  you go huh ah yeah you're done yeah uh [TS]

  you know and it lasted like uh not very [TS]

  long you don't know how long it was no [TS]

  you have no idea but you stand up and [TS]

  you kind of remember to shake it off and [TS]

  you know and your ex man's got a new [TS]

  girlfriend mm-hmm then whom you're up on [TS]

  your feet and Bob's your uncle you're [TS]

  ruling yeah and it really it really [TS]

  works the and but but in the past right [TS]

  i would i would get that debt start like [TS]

  what huh and then i would i would [TS]

  interpret that as part of the long slow [TS]

  come you know the component tree that [TS]

  leads to a long nap so I fought my [TS]

  pillow and I dig back in but in fact [TS]

  that is your body saying you're done [TS]

  that takes training I'm guessing [TS]

  I know it takes training to take a nap [TS]

  because you have to get your head you [TS]

  gotta get your mind right as Strother [TS]

  Martin says you got to figure out like [TS]

  this is the thing that I'm doing and if [TS]

  I feel bad about it is the thing I'm not [TS]

  going to be able to do so now you're [TS]

  somebody who fails it naps which is [TS]

  possibly worse than being somebody who [TS]

  naps but you also have to din like [TS]

  you're you talking about this turbo [TS]

  situation why you say that's it I am [TS]

  restored time to get back to bloom [TS]

  people I need to blow some bubbles [TS]

  mm-hmm is i like this site because you [TS]

  know what here's the other thing it's [TS]

  like what it's like bourbon mustard [TS]

  barbecue or kind of lingus a lot of [TS]

  people say they don't like it because [TS]

  they kind of doing it wrong and never [TS]

  really learned how to do it right so you [TS]

  say you don't like a nap you say you [TS]

  want a revolution maybe your problem is [TS]

  you you you the listener with your [TS]

  skepticism in your pea pod talk maybe [TS]

  you're all like that because you never [TS]

  got good at naps and you're right those [TS]

  animals that tries to sleep for four [TS]

  hours starting at like five o'clock at [TS]

  night bad idea bad idea do you want [TS]

  onions on your in and out burger the [TS]

  answer is yes maybe you don't want to [TS]

  all the onions mm-hmm see asking Guy [TS]

  Fieri if he wants jalapenos with that [TS]

  yeah course he does good suggestion can [TS]

  you deep fry course the thing is here's [TS]

  another thing that here's what yours a [TS]

  little life hack for you and you may [TS]

  have done this already yeah but yeah you [TS]

  know I have a I have a vague familiarity [TS]

  with your office I've been in it I've [TS]

  looked at the shelves I've seen the [TS]

  lighting I don't you know your home is [TS]

  nearby so maybe when you it's nap time [TS]

  you just uh you shuffle off to Buffalo [TS]

  hmm but for your system your system [TS]

  really would I have napped I have napped [TS]

  a plenty at my office I used to have a [TS]

  sleeping bag and a pillow here that I [TS]

  eventually had to donate to the [TS]

  household for a sleepover and never came [TS]

  back I need to get some kind of little [TS]

  palette I could sleep on you like a [TS]

  little little uh you know like a little [TS]

  Ishmael kind of thing get myself a [TS]

  little a little bed to sleep on mm-hmm [TS]

  hopefully not wrong hopefully not with [TS]

  an Indian but I'll have a place to lay [TS]

  down here for the road map start a [TS]

  little straw mat so the way it is right [TS]

  now when I nap at home I think myself [TS]

  mentally okay fresh air is going to the [TS]

  first commercial break or like like I [TS]

  know you know this is ending news hour [TS]

  is starting i have a rough idea of how [TS]

  long it's been and [TS]

  somehow out of the corner of my ear I'm [TS]

  listening I'm listening for that I [TS]

  should probably turn off the radio when [TS]

  I'm sleeping I don't I cannot imagine [TS]

  taking a nap well well NPR is churning [TS]

  and I really do feel like all these all [TS]

  these kinds of conversations the way [TS]

  that people listen to NPR I really think [TS]

  that there should be a special way of [TS]

  gauging public radio ratings so because [TS]

  NPR has amazing ratings and everyone [TS]

  they then that's how they get all that [TS]

  money from the government that's right [TS]

  sometimes it's done now the money wave [TS]

  right right in the job to Joan Kroc [TS]

  foundation the government uh uh but let [TS]

  me listen Adrienne viking river cruises [TS]

  NPR is just in the background like the [TS]

  dishwasher oh that's that was my own [TS]

  trick I mean I went from listening to [TS]

  car talk once a week to having NPR on [TS]

  all day because when i moved to [TS]

  tallahassee that was the first place I [TS]

  lived that had both a full-time [TS]

  classical and a full-time news and [TS]

  information so I had a full-on full day [TS]

  of Public Radio you're right it was just [TS]

  an all-day dishwasher Bob woods mother [TS]

  used to listen to NPR and she was the [TS]

  most beautiful of all of the of all the [TS]

  upper middle class moms that I knew [TS]

  growing she had the ansan Suchi tea she [TS]

  lived in one case right that's right [TS]

  that's right mom Bob's Bob mom and so I [TS]

  always had a special affection in my [TS]

  heart for I mean you know Bob's mom must [TS]

  have been in 40 years old at the time so [TS]

  I I was right she was probably she's [TS]

  probably like empirically am an NPR lil [TS]

  I'm in gr listen i but i but I uh but [TS]

  yeah so I mean there's no going back but [TS]

  I but you can't begin with the genie [TS]

  back in the bottle no but but i I've [TS]

  never myself been able to listen to NPR [TS]

  at all and partly it's because I think I [TS]

  don't know where the electrical outlets [TS]

  are in this house yeah Joe it's it's an [TS]

  older house I'm just trying to make that [TS]

  you don't do that that's very [TS]

  interesting you think that should affect [TS]

  their ratings though there should be [TS]

  some way it maybe use the camera in your [TS]

  microwave but you have a way to identify [TS]

  whether people are actually mostly kind [TS]

  of sleeping while it was in NPR it's [TS]

  really hard to know right because I one [TS]

  oh I don't want our ratings to be rude [TS]

  to be reflected uh I don't you know I [TS]

  don't want the fact that people are [TS]

  listening to this and then sometimes [TS]

  going wait a minute uh-huh I've got to [TS]

  rewind that did they just say something [TS]

  but Dodgers missed something i can't i [TS]

  can't imagine listening to the show [TS]

  while you're doing anything like trying [TS]

  to sleep you need to stop everything [TS]

  you're doing and just focus completely [TS]

  you can maybe maybe wash dishes if it's [TS]

  just plates but but if we're going to be [TS]

  doing a lot of silverware Google's to [TS]

  some other show my friend Kevin would [TS]

  lay down to go to sleep at night with [TS]

  his boom box on the bedside table which [TS]

  is to say six inches from the front of [TS]

  his face with the you know just the boom [TS]

  box just cranked playing except and the [TS]

  you know new wave of British heavy metal [TS]

  just blasting in his face he'd sleep [TS]

  like that all night I think he had [TS]

  tinnitus I've had friends with tinnitus [TS]

  that sleep with pretty loud music or TV [TS]

  on well I mean he was 15 at the time I [TS]

  die I don't know whether I have no idea [TS]

  i think he was just metal I mean you [TS]

  have to be pretty metal to do that to [TS]

  her but but there's a player as a part [TS]

  of my nap strategy which is to make [TS]

  myself uncomfort to make myself [TS]

  uncomfortable but to not pursue comfort [TS]

  as a prerequisite of taking a nap I'm [TS]

  smart it's smart in so many ways on the [TS]

  one hand it's smart cuz you're not going [TS]

  to do a full Churchill that's not what [TS]

  you're there for but any other hand [TS]

  you're also lowering the barrier the [TS]

  Baird entry as we say in business you're [TS]

  making it easier to slide into a [TS]

  five-minute turbo nap I keep a pillow in [TS]

  my truck and when it's time to taking in [TS]

  case you to deliver a baby or something [TS]

  you know there's a lot of reasons you [TS]

  might need a pillow right somebody [TS]

  invites you to a college football game [TS]

  the last minute you're like ah those [TS]

  bleachers for my mom said you can go to [TS]

  a sleepover I've got a pillow mm-hmm but [TS]

  the key to the key to the truck map is [TS]

  you might think Oh get out of the [TS]

  driver's seat go back lay down on the [TS]

  bench seat let the second-row bench seat [TS]

  that's not any more comfortable right [TS]

  because you get seatbelt spoken in yet [TS]

  it's not your office try to have to [TS]

  contract your body [TS]

  oh just stay seated in your driver's [TS]

  seat grab the pillow and I have actually [TS]

  done a truck not truck nap where I [TS]

  didn't take the seat belt off you grab [TS]

  the pillow you kind of you squeeze the [TS]

  pillow like a little like a well not a [TS]

  little like a pillow size teddy bear [TS]

  mm-hmm and then you just kind of fall [TS]

  over holding on to the pillow and the [TS]

  pillow then is between you know because [TS]

  it's next to your cheek it's between you [TS]

  and whatever you fall against this [TS]

  channel it could be the wheel it could [TS]

  be the wheel it could be the seat next [TS]

  to you if you fall sideways I envy [TS]

  people who can do that on a plane you [TS]

  see those people who can lay on their [TS]

  tray that filthy tray I'm also amazed [TS]

  that people can sleep on that thing [TS]

  because I've tried it and I feel like a [TS]

  dope you know what it is I probably in [TS]

  practice enough but you're saying [TS]

  whatever you fall on yeah you ever seen [TS]

  those people to carry the big wedge the [TS]

  like sex web see I've seen the sex wedge [TS]

  in skymall there's also a sex wedge we [TS]

  can get a job you put the whole thing [TS]

  it's kind of like a like a seat hoodie [TS]

  you put on this whole thing you get a [TS]

  whole like atmosphere you get to being [TS]

  at your own private space so if you like [TS]

  if you drool or talk or something you [TS]

  know stay you're in there and they're [TS]

  developing like old old photographs I've [TS]

  said to her you don't operate like that [TS]

  feeling eggs yeah it's interesting no [TS]

  it's electroplating I do people it's [TS]

  better than eating a pizza and that's [TS]

  all I'm gonna say about that on the [TS]

  plane yeah yeah eating a piece bring me [TS]

  up people are you for so many reasons [TS]

  John and this is just another one to add [TS]

  to the ongoing list I did not know you [TS]

  were this good I know you have an [TS]

  interesting relationship with sleep as a [TS]

  thing mm-hmm but I didn't know you were [TS]

  so sleep fluid and I'm really glad to [TS]

  hear it well and part part of the [TS]

  necessity is that I'm this is really [TS]

  hard for me to say because it does not [TS]

  it's not what I want you know what I [TS]

  mean they're sometimes things you wanna [TS]

  you don't want to say because not what [TS]

  you want right you avoid you avoid [TS]

  thinking it let alone sing it because [TS]

  you feel like that is off-brand not [TS]

  daddy's brand no and what and what I'm [TS]

  about to say is that I am having [TS]

  increasingly a difficult time sleeping [TS]

  at night [TS]

  again back to this yeah and so the so [TS]

  the daytime naps are very necessary and [TS]

  these little five minute long you know [TS]

  if you like a truck nap you're not going [TS]

  to get comfort comfortable in that [TS]

  situation it's a net it's a necessity [TS]

  nap but you wake up throw the throw the [TS]

  pillow over your shoulder start the [TS]

  truck up I mean the guy that the guy [TS]

  that ripped off my house a couple of [TS]

  years ago the way he got caught was he [TS]

  took my computer obviously he gave it to [TS]

  some meth dealer to get some meth this [TS]

  all happened in the middle of the night [TS]

  and then smoked a bunch of math and then [TS]

  at a certain point you know I don't know [TS]

  if you know about your your meth arc [TS]

  right you smoke the math it's very [TS]

  exciting you get very energized you know [TS]

  you feel like you could collect you [TS]

  could just march right through the Black [TS]

  Forest let's say huh every 10 hours [TS]

  you're just going to swoop right around [TS]

  Paris and the wars gonna be over but [TS]

  then somewhere up there at the PX slight [TS]

  miscalculation what did you take moscow [TS]

  leningrad and Stalingrad why do we take [TS]

  all of the garage we need that oil any [TS]

  oil out there baka baka world i [TS]

  meanwhile back at the Wolf's Lair you [TS]

  are he the said this guy this tingling [TS]

  crashed in his car with the motor [TS]

  running this is less than 24 hours after [TS]

  the incident right and yeah that's [TS]

  pretty soon yeah 24 hours later he's a [TS]

  he's because he probably hadn't been [TS]

  sleeping up to whatever the decision [TS]

  making process he was going through [TS]

  where it was like I'm gonna break in [TS]

  this house where this guy is sleeping [TS]

  right this guy with this guy with an [TS]

  umbrella stand full swords I'm gonna [TS]

  just walk right in his house and steal [TS]

  his stuff he probably hadn't been [TS]

  sleeping for a while up to that point [TS]

  okay yeah anyway so that's how he got [TS]

  yeah he had a sleep deficit he probably [TS]

  wasn't at the top of his game decision [TS]

  wise yeah right and so I'm always [TS]

  conscious of the fact that when I'm [TS]

  taking a truck nap that some you know [TS]

  some Bobby is going to come along and [TS]

  rap on the wind chill with a billy club [TS]

  say what's all this then it's a no [TS]

  parking here you got to move along no [TS]

  parking you got to move along and [TS]

  then uh you know then I'm coming down [TS]

  the stairs out of the public library or [TS]

  whatever and the and the cop turns and [TS]

  shoots me yeah that's what wiii happen [TS]

  yeah so but i feel like the presence of [TS]

  a pillow in that scenario any cop is [TS]

  going to look in and go unless I'm [TS]

  illegally parked right let's say oh this [TS]

  guy came equipped with a pillow okay [TS]

  pipe on the dash in the man has a teddy [TS]

  bear size pillow yeah he's okay but I've [TS]

  got it I've got to address this led this [TS]

  nighttime sleeping thing you know [TS]

  because night time sleeping is also [TS]

  important yeah you you you struggled [TS]

  with this for quite a while you you were [TS]

  thinking about it was an owl's this was [TS]

  a ongoing theme in some of their I don't [TS]

  like to talk about the show on the show [TS]

  but this is an ongoing theme for a while [TS]

  here was what was happening with John at [TS]

  night yeah I'm tossing and turning and [TS]

  my feet are going somebody's app and I [TS]

  feel like I've got this if I sleep in [TS]

  certain if I sleep in certain postures I [TS]

  have sleep apnea and then other postures [TS]

  i don't i'm not sure how that works i do [TS]

  not want to i do not want to be treated [TS]

  for sleep apnea oh Jesus I think I [TS]

  started I've started apparently snoring [TS]

  loud enough to make my family Matt and [TS]

  I'm with the guy I just don't have to [TS]

  wear one of those things this really is [TS]

  becoming like this is becoming looks [TS]

  like a podcast between George Burns and [TS]

  fucking peep Steve Allen keep on friends [TS]

  yeah people on friends it's like oh how [TS]

  long are your nose hairs now pretty long [TS]

  they get my way when a guy I groom my [TS]

  eyebrows often enough that it is still [TS]

  really alarming how often my daughter [TS]

  will just be staring like not at my I [TS]

  she's like you got another one I'm like [TS]

  you're kidding I just I just dealt with [TS]

  this so I this is curious to me because [TS]

  when I see when I see an older gent YC [TS]

  of people keep on who's got unruly [TS]

  eyebrows I feel only complete admiration [TS]

  and envy yeah you're like a wise doom [TS]

  kind of person yeah but every woman I [TS]

  know including most vociferously my own [TS]

  sister they feel like unruly eyebrows or [TS]

  something you know my sister is so [TS]

  against unruly [TS]

  oh yeah she uh she's pretty fixated on [TS]

  that with your dad if memory serves with [TS]

  a pair of scissors out of nowhere and [TS]

  start sniffing your eyebrows if I she's [TS]

  like snit but nobody in my life seems to [TS]

  feel like the unruliness of eyebrows is [TS]

  a is an advantage and as we've discussed [TS]

  before I don't have a ton of eyebrow [TS]

  depth particularly not at a distance as [TS]

  my eyebrows are very very very blonde [TS]

  it's what makes you look in part what [TS]

  makes you look so different when your [TS]

  glasses are off you have a different [TS]

  face yeah right it's why I wear glasses [TS]

  to give my eyes some some my brow some [TS]

  frame because I just my eyebrows are [TS]

  just very very very very hard to see and [TS]

  that is infuriating to me because I [TS]

  browser where a lot of the character the [TS]

  face is located and so when I start to [TS]

  get unroot when my eyebrows start to get [TS]

  unruly my first thought is well at least [TS]

  now as they as they become like a [TS]

  hedgerow yeah um even though it's even [TS]

  though it's blonde now verging into [TS]

  white they'll be like interesting i'll [TS]

  be i'll have eyebrow character finally [TS]

  and then you know and then my sister is [TS]

  like not on my watch Skol I bet it's I I [TS]

  suspected with regard to hair I suspect [TS]

  it's a little bit like somebody trying [TS]

  to grow a beard which obviously you [TS]

  don't have a problem with but for like [TS]

  people like me like growing a beard is [TS]

  very painful to watch you know and [TS]

  everybody needs a beer it's everybody's [TS]

  growing beards but like you know when [TS]

  it's first getting going especially when [TS]

  you're younger and like I could never [TS]

  get a fill-in right here this is this [TS]

  area like right below the size of my [TS]

  lips you know there's not that one spot [TS]

  that doesn't really fill in very well so [TS]

  I gonna go full bite your lip yet you [TS]

  know down below like right here and then [TS]

  you stop of the Wolfman Jack problem I [TS]

  am I don't love me thank you yes just [TS]

  capture that well yes i know not beard [TS]

  but the thing is like a local jazz [TS]

  saxophone players i can i can reference [TS]

  your i can reference your riff based on [TS]

  your prior riffs of it above up [TS]

  oh yeah so anyway I think it's just hard [TS]

  to watch your gonna go full dune if [TS]

  you're going to become like the dune guy [TS]

  and you're going to get really like [TS]

  serious cool eyebrows like you're going [TS]

  to go nuts you're going to become like a [TS]

  like like an adjunct professor or an [TS]

  excuse me an emeritus professor if you [TS]

  get emeritus eyebrows I think that's [TS]

  something anybody could look at and go [TS]

  that's press pretty baller the problem [TS]

  is when you just got like four of them [TS]

  it's a little bit unseemly so you know [TS]

  usually commissioner and I need to avoid [TS]

  your sister now what about your [TS]

  millennium girlfriend how's she feel [TS]

  about the eyebrows uh well you know [TS]

  she's she's a room she's very accepting [TS]

  of a lot of what would be described as [TS]

  my peculiarities and I feel like the on [TS]

  but you know but she has like she has [TS]

  particular she has she has her own very [TS]

  specific kind of ways that she likes my [TS]

  peculiarities be expressed I think [TS]

  that's I think that's a reasonable [TS]

  balance so what shows she said an [TS]

  interesting thing not very long ago [TS]

  which was I do not like people with [TS]

  unruly beards and well-groomed hair oh [TS]

  it was kinda that's kind of a look now [TS]

  yeah that's the fashion and I was the [TS]

  hell you get the Macklemore you get like [TS]

  like a Rudolph Hess kind of thing going [TS]

  on up here and then down here you're all [TS]

  iron in wine right she said not into it [TS]

  she said I do like it when you have [TS]

  unruly hair and a fairly uh trimmed [TS]

  beard and I go boom that is what I do i [TS]

  do the unruly hair but i keep the beard [TS]

  you know kind of like in line that's a [TS]

  good right and she said she said yes to [TS]

  that not to the other thing and you know [TS]

  I I was I i if that was great because [TS]

  that's that's my inclination right she [TS]

  has not she's not if she came to me and [TS]

  said I really like your yeah I really [TS]

  like your hair to be super ver mocked [TS]

  and your beard to be Grizzly Adams okay [TS]

  and she would never say Grizzly Adams [TS]

  because that's not a reference that she [TS]

  would never understand her me [TS]

  but she would say but that's what she [TS]

  said Wolfman Jack I would run around the [TS]

  yard because Wow whoo Wolfman Jack weird [TS]

  but I'm here but Wolfman much anymore no [TS]

  you know you heard about him a lot he's [TS]

  everywhere and he was like he was like [TS]

  the original Charles Nelson Reilly where [TS]

  it was very difficult to understand why [TS]

  he was that famous was he an American [TS]

  Graffiti yes okay yes but you know he [TS]

  was already like that was back in the [TS]

  times I think when when those really [TS]

  powerful outlaw radio stations in the [TS]

  Midwest should be heard in 14 states and [TS]

  you'd lay awake at night in your room [TS]

  with your little radio yeah try to try [TS]

  and hear it Wolfman Jack out of time [TS]

  tuscaloosa or whatever where was he yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah but also radio was a [TS]

  fairly regional thing where you can get [TS]

  somebody who is like like very well [TS]

  known in you know you get like Rodney on [TS]

  the rocks or like you get a Wolfman Jack [TS]

  and like you know I you would know these [TS]

  names but you know not have much context [TS]

  for i was i was watching a netflix [TS]

  documentary series last night believe it [TS]

  or not really good four part series [TS]

  about the history of hip-hop and the [TS]

  first episode about the early days was [TS]

  really really really good and you know [TS]

  talk in particular about this one fella [TS]

  who like was such an important driver it [TS]

  was a radio guy you know it was soon he [TS]

  touched on i'm not sure where I'm going [TS]

  with this but it wasn't just like cool [TS]

  it wasn't just kool herc it wasn't just [TS]

  grandmaster flash or you know all the [TS]

  names you kind of know from that era it [TS]

  was also like pigmeat Markham you know [TS]

  here come the judge here come the judge [TS]

  like you go back and listen to that song [TS]

  from 1968 it's totally a rap song and [TS]

  like I don't know I thought it was very [TS]

  interesting i'm very interested though [TS]

  you think about the history of the [TS]

  importance of the DJ and like that you [TS]

  don't get that so much anymore like even [TS]

  in the 80s you had like Casey Kasem you [TS]

  still had dick clark and like you know [TS]

  now today if people know dick clark [TS]

  they're going to know him as probably [TS]

  from bloopers or New Year's Eve well no [TS]

  dear that's a quote in the inland in the [TS]

  early 80s in Anchorage at least [TS]

  the DJ's were still a well-known local [TS]

  personalities and I aspired to be one [TS]

  like that was the first job I really [TS]

  wanted and that I imagined was like [TS]

  perfectly suited to me was radio DJ and [TS]

  I listened to the radio you know we all [TS]

  listened to the radio all the time but I [TS]

  listened to the radio with that in mind [TS]

  that this was potentially my career and [TS]

  at 16 years old I reflect back on this [TS]

  and I do not I do not remember ever [TS]

  having this much Moxie but I did have [TS]

  moxie I apparently I had a ton of moxie [TS]

  because I actually did this which was I [TS]

  went around to every single radio [TS]

  station in Anchorage and applied for a [TS]

  job how old were you 16 years old Wow [TS]

  and I I would walk into the you know and [TS]

  radio stations are not that glamorous [TS]

  when you walk in to the they're usually [TS]

  also pretty well fortified they are [TS]

  their fortified they're they're [TS]

  generally like in strange buildings like [TS]

  I think they dealt with strangers [TS]

  wandering in a lot at a radio station [TS]

  yeah right you don't walk in and meet [TS]

  loni anderson no um typically walk in [TS]

  and all the door they're there for doors [TS]

  leading out of the out of the anteroom [TS]

  and all of them are locked you know but [TS]

  I what I went around and I said to each [TS]

  person like hello my name is John [TS]

  Roderick and I would like to work here [TS]

  at your radio station may I have an [TS]

  application and the breath the person on [TS]

  the other you know like whoever was [TS]

  there whoever was standing there or [TS]

  whoever but buzz me in generally someone [TS]

  who looked like who had a cigarette [TS]

  dangling out of their mouth or you know [TS]

  who who looked like they'd just gotten [TS]

  done like fixing radios would say huh [TS]

  and I'd say yes I am here to apply for a [TS]

  job as a DJ I hear DJs on the radio I [TS]

  believe I would be a good one [TS]

  may I have an application please and [TS]

  again they're just like you're squinting [TS]

  at me through the haze like you say what [TS]

  now yeah and and apparently what I [TS]

  didn't understand is that that's not how [TS]

  you can chose TJ it's all you know it's [TS]

  like it's like you don't get a job in a [TS]

  regional theater company by walking in [TS]

  and saying hello I would like to join [TS]

  your regional theater company right it's [TS]

  like a you get ideas I you found your [TS]

  Hamlet let me in yeah you get you get [TS]

  into you get into it another way but so [TS]

  I went around and applied everywhere and [TS]

  I was I was agnostic about format I was [TS]

  like listen I'll do I'll do country I'll [TS]

  do sports I'll do R&B like doesn't [TS]

  matter and you should you should have [TS]

  seen the reaction when I went into the [TS]

  R&B radio stations was like I would like [TS]

  to be a DJ here but but I applied all [TS]

  over town I did not get a very many [TS]

  callbacks and the callbacks that i did [TS]

  get were uh well you could hear someone [TS]

  on the other end of the line like muffle [TS]

  the phone receiver and everyone in the [TS]

  room was laughing oh no so I did and I [TS]

  was just like listen I don't think you [TS]

  people understand the opportunity you're [TS]

  being given here this is me at the start [TS]

  of my career who wants to launch it [TS]

  right right and they were like thanks [TS]

  thanks for stopping by will put your [TS]

  application on file you know States late [TS]

  like digging around they found an [TS]

  application half the time they handed me [TS]

  a yellow legal pad well I can fill out [TS]

  your own application but but eventually [TS]

  you know I went down in and I went down [TS]

  to the local UHF 24-hour music video [TS]

  television station that it just opened [TS]

  I've told you this story i'm sure my [TS]

  money I feel like I don't know this one [TS]

  I know tell me again in Anchorage him in [TS]

  the mid 80s there was a success of MTV [TS]

  brought uh like a new business model [TS]

  mm-hmm the low operating costs of MTV I [TS]

  mean right I people just a joke you free [TS]

  stuff to put up well me yeah they had [TS]

  fled what [TS]

  five old radio detour five you know like [TS]

  what were I think considered the cool [TS]

  radio DJs and they just SAT there [TS]

  basically played blade videos but what [TS]

  we didn't know and what we didn't know [TS]

  about them what we didn't know about [TS]

  Casey Kasem or at least I didn't know [TS]

  was it wasn't recorded in real time [TS]

  right they could just write it wasn't [TS]

  like there was always somebody sitting [TS]

  there like watching the video oh it's [TS]

  and here we go flock of seagulls with [TS]

  Iran their palm I guess they're cheating [TS]

  yeah he walked along the Avenue look at [TS]

  that no actually watching the video [TS]

  while it's playing get a cup of tea and [TS]

  wander around like like howard hesseman [TS]

  but but you're only the lonely can play [TS]

  hmm so why is they hey that's right [TS]

  that's right that but but that was how [TS]

  they did it at regional radio stations [TS]

  right at local radio oh absolutely right [TS]

  it was all happening in real time [TS]

  because they had to be there to answer [TS]

  the telephone when you called and so [TS]

  this regional model was hey there's all [TS]

  this UHF frequency which I which they [TS]

  still don't understand but I sort of [TS]

  understand why UHF wasn't like [TS]

  completely populated by television [TS]

  channels but I guess you get a license [TS]

  but i agree with you why weren't there [TS]

  like 10 UHS stations all we had was [TS]

  independent in PBS I feel like the I [TS]

  feel like the barrier to entry is do can [TS]

  you get a transmitter can you get a [TS]

  powerful enough transmitter that you can [TS]

  be seen anywhere right just for a quick [TS]

  real-time fact-check Wolfman Jack was [TS]

  indeed broadcasting from a border [TS]

  station so he is in like LA but there [TS]

  was this X er be was like like 50 miles [TS]

  away and shooting of 50,000 watts well [TS]

  and I think I think even before he was [TS]

  in LA he if I recall his story correctly [TS]

  he was down in Texas or something and [TS]

  went over and was like I'm on a Mexican [TS]

  radio radio or you know it might have [TS]

  even been like i hoid it I hate it put [TS]

  it all [TS]

  x-men council breakup border blaster [TS]

  station Rosarito Beach Mako branded as [TS]

  the mighty 1090 in hollywood california [TS]

  the station boasted 50,000 watts of boss [TS]

  soul power there we go boss soul power [TS]

  Merle hmm anyway so uh so in in them I [TS]

  don't know early eighties mid 80s there [TS]

  was this thing with like hey music [TS]

  videos are easy to get a hold of they're [TS]

  just they're thick on the ground right [TS]

  now cuz everybody's making them um why [TS]

  don't we we were watching them I would [TS]

  every every spare minute I had before [TS]

  school after school before bed every [TS]

  spare minute I could I was like how do I [TS]

  get more of the videos yeah I'm sitting [TS]

  there trying to I'm sitting there [TS]

  waiting for the captain sensible Vidya [TS]

  to come back on the MTV only played that [TS]

  captain sensible video 15 times in the [TS]

  is this like this is dumb and they threw [TS]

  it in the wastepaper basket but I [TS]

  suppose me and stand and deliver by Adam [TS]

  in the ants it was a real rarity like [TS]

  when it came on it was like I made my [TS]

  day machines and then chop Chomp Chomp [TS]

  indeed Chomp Chomp so they're so in [TS]

  Anchorage and it's just one of the very [TS]

  few like that I think it was only a [TS]

  handful of places in the United States a [TS]

  group of business people said this is [TS]

  the future of television it's like radio [TS]

  and all we have to do is hook it up to a [TS]

  transmitter and hire some hire some [TS]

  young people to understand the lexicon [TS]

  we'll get a bunch of videos which it's [TS]

  not hard to acquire somehow i guess [TS]

  probably because record companies were [TS]

  like throat just shooting videos out of [TS]

  a cannon at whoever would take him and [TS]

  they opened a television station called [TS]

  catch-22 on UHF station 22 where they [TS]

  played music videos and it was local [TS]

  deed local vijay's and when that came on [TS]

  the air i had already applied all over [TS]

  town at all of the all the radio [TS]

  stations and I was like you have got to [TS]

  be freaking kidding me we just opened [TS]

  our own local MTV catch-22 where the you [TS]

  know the music station where the music [TS]

  is or whatever the look that were the [TS]

  GAD phrase was that you written all over [TS]

  it yeah and I was just like you've got [TS]

  aw and I ran down there [TS]

  put in my application and they laughed [TS]

  at me but because of this Moxie that I'm [TS]

  describing I just kept going back I went [TS]

  down there and I would sit in the lobby [TS]

  I made a video tape of myself in front [TS]

  of the camera and of course I didn't own [TS]

  a video camera so I had to go use a [TS]

  friends video camera and I SAT there and [TS]

  was like hey everybody hey Anchorage [TS]

  that last track you saw was Jeff was def [TS]

  leppard an upcoming is the is the ZZ Top [TS]

  and stay tuned and then you know I did a [TS]

  bunch of those and made this video did [TS]

  you find the video I took it down there [TS]

  and I handed it off to the to the you [TS]

  know and and and and catch 22 actually [TS]

  did have a loni anderson who was very [TS]

  gentle with me but every time i came in [TS]

  she would she'd say oh the program [TS]

  director is in a meeting he'll be with [TS]

  you in a moment and I would sit on the [TS]

  chair I was you know I had grown I'd had [TS]

  my growth spurt already but I still felt [TS]

  like the chair was very tall and I would [TS]

  swing my legs my in my short pants with [TS]

  my socks pulled up to my knees plague [TS]

  clean paddle all game and then there [TS]

  obviously was a back door to this place [TS]

  because then it would get to be the [TS]

  close of the business day and she would [TS]

  say oh I'm afraid that he couldn't see [TS]

  you today he's already welded miserable [TS]

  your Rupert Pupkin yeah it happened many [TS]

  many times uh and then somehow and I [TS]

  just kept going I don't and I cannot [TS]

  think of another oh wait a minute [TS]

  there's another example and it happened [TS]

  at the same time of my life when I [TS]

  decided that I was going to that I was [TS]

  going to be Kelly keepers boyfriend all [TS]

  right and I've ever had I never had a [TS]

  girlfriend before I didn't know how to [TS]

  do it and so I just was like I just kept [TS]

  sending her notes he's confident Nora I [TS]

  did I was like I'm gonna be your [TS]

  boyfriend and cheese she would say no [TS]

  you're not that lasted for months until [TS]

  I was her boyfriends but I saw it so at [TS]

  this point and I don't know why I didn't [TS]

  learn this lesson because it worked with [TS]

  Kelly keeper and it eventually worked [TS]

  with catch-22 I kept going down there [TS]

  until finally he came out the great [TS]

  Richard Hadlee who was one of only two [TS]

  rockabilly guys in all of Anchorage [TS]

  Richard Hadlee finally came out from [TS]

  behind his magic wall [TS]

  and said all right kid I looked at your [TS]

  tape it was terrible there's no way I'm [TS]

  putting you on the air but i will give [TS]

  you a job as long as you promise never [TS]

  to skip school I promised him he said if [TS]

  I ever catch you skipping school you're [TS]

  fired and I was like I swear I'm swear I [TS]

  won't skip school and then yeah he gave [TS]

  me a job and my you know and I'm and my [TS]

  my my shows were overnight so I actually [TS]

  I I should have learned at that from [TS]

  those experiences that if you have moxie [TS]

  uh you can you know you can accomplish [TS]

  anything but i think if i if i look back [TS]

  those are after i got that job at [TS]

  catch-22 I never had ever had any moxie [TS]

  again whatever when Moxie I you know I [TS]

  forget about Moxie but Moxie's [TS]

  definitely a thing yeah I stopped [TS]

  ringing doorbells I stopped going in and [TS]

  sitting in people's offices and swinging [TS]

  my feet yeah I stopped I stop saying you [TS]

  know what sir I'm gonna be the best [TS]

  salesperson this store has ever had I [TS]

  oak wait I tried one more time mm-hmm [TS]

  when I was 24 and I was trying to decide [TS]

  whether or not I was going to be a [TS]

  professional alcoholic or whether I was [TS]

  gonna you know whether I really had the [TS]

  with whether I had the Moxie to do that [TS]

  really going for the green jacket just [TS]

  like listen that's right am I gonna [TS]

  going to augusta here or am I gonna be [TS]

  am I gonna be a pro at a like a [TS]

  community golf course right and I was [TS]

  thinking to myself because I was trying [TS]

  to work downtown I was trying to work i [TS]

  worked at piper jaffray which was a [TS]

  investment bank this is the place I had [TS]

  all their other files in the top floor [TS]

  that's right that's good and and I would [TS]

  sit at a manual typewriter and type out [TS]

  these million and a half dollar checks [TS]

  to the Gates's while i was wearing [TS]

  combat boots because hey typewriter oh [TS]

  and I said this isn't this isn't for me [TS]

  this is not I mean there are plenty of [TS]

  people at this investment bank who are [TS]

  professional alcoholics but they are [TS]

  coming at this from somewhere else they [TS]

  got a they got a business degree from [TS]

  the you know Washington State University [TS]

  and they're in here and you know they [TS]

  did not pursue this job in order to put [TS]

  a mat put it put a beard on their [TS]

  functional alcoholism that is a the [TS]

  ilysm is a byproduct of trying to sell [TS]

  stocks too okay all right I'm calling [TS]

  people to sell stocks and I'm going the [TS]

  other direction I'm starting out with [TS]

  alcoholism as the goal what kind of job [TS]

  will allow me to you know will allow me [TS]

  to pursue my true vocation and I said to [TS]

  I said to myself used car salesman used [TS]

  car salesman is the perfect job for me I [TS]

  like I like people unlike cars I like [TS]

  talking to people mm-hmm um yeah yeah we [TS]

  get him a bottle in your desk how cool [TS]

  would that be exactly but you just got a [TS]

  flask in your hip pocket you're like [TS]

  Kurt Russell and used cars and a blazer [TS]

  you get to wear a freaking kooky blazer [TS]

  you get to go outside you get that you [TS]

  get to you get to ask people what do I [TS]

  have to do today to put you in this [TS]

  sedan that's how you get out there you [TS]

  say look the undercoating comes comes [TS]

  like that from the fact I manager but [TS]

  you know it's a used car right so you [TS]

  don't even have to you don't even have [TS]

  to do that and on okay now that I'm [TS]

  remembering this correctly when I was [TS]

  taking this is this was not an idea that [TS]

  started when I was 24 because when I was [TS]

  applying at radio stations at the age of [TS]

  16 I was also applying at used car lots [TS]

  in Anchorage I absolutely did this you [TS]

  have more moxie than you realized I [TS]

  forgot completely about that side of the [TS]

  story I was applying at radio stations [TS]

  and at used car lots because somehow I [TS]

  recognized that the two jobs were very [TS]

  very similar to one another Wow and when [TS]

  I rolled up on used-car Lots where there [TS]

  actually were like strings of flags [TS]

  flapping in the wind and a double-wide [TS]

  trailer set set at the long axis at the [TS]

  end of the parking lot with a kind of [TS]

  with some steps up to it and a and a [TS]

  like a screen door cut into the side I I [TS]

  distinctly remember walking across this [TS]

  parking lot and there was a guy standing [TS]

  at the top of the of the steps up to the [TS]

  double-wide trailer with the sliding [TS]

  glass door open because it was spring [TS]

  and he's standing there smokey I'm I am [TS]

  remembering him smoking a cigar I have [TS]

  no idea whether he was or not but he is [TS]

  a genuine herb tarling standing up there [TS]

  and he sees me coming and he imagines to [TS]

  himself here's a six [TS]

  year old I'm gonna put him into a 1969 [TS]

  dodge dart says he's looking for his [TS]

  first car sure and I walked up and I was [TS]

  like sir I am ready to work for you and [TS]

  he said how old are you I said 16 but i [TS]

  can do anything i can do anything around [TS]

  here but the thing was what i was not [TS]

  saying to him i'm ready to wash cars I'm [TS]

  ready to I'm ready to schlep stuff [TS]

  around in order to learn your trade sir [TS]

  I am ready to apprentice to you know I [TS]

  was walking up saying I am a born used [TS]

  car salesman and just turned me loose [TS]

  you're not you're not Danielson you're [TS]

  mr. Miyagi that's right put a blazer on [TS]

  me and that turned me loose on people [TS]

  and he had the he had the he had an even [TS]

  worse look than the than the radio [TS]

  station people he was just like.he [TS]

  because it was like I walked in as far [TS]

  as he was concerned it was like I walked [TS]

  into an emergency rooms and sent to the [TS]

  emergency room doctor step aside my good [TS]

  man and let me show you you know what [TS]

  I'm twirling scalpers and evil in you [TS]

  I'm 16 huh 16 have you ever seen Doogie [TS]

  Howser it hasn't even come on the area [TS]

  because i am he your kids are gonna love [TS]

  it but so i went down so at 24 i guess i [TS]

  revisited this idea like this is going [TS]

  to be a great job for me as I practice [TS]

  my my my true art form uh-huh which is [TS]

  dissolution i'm gonna go i'm gonna do [TS]

  this I'm gonna make this real but I went [TS]

  down to honda dealership which also ran [TS]

  up Rani a used car lot it was right down [TS]

  the hill from where I lived and I walked [TS]

  in and the sales people were about my [TS]

  age really yeah you know guys in their [TS]

  mid 20 s some cards Wow um and they are [TS]

  so I walk in and they are hustling these [TS]

  guys are moving fast they're what [TS]

  they're fast walkers mm-hmm you got a [TS]

  big car locks right in the scent of ten [TS]

  and i said hey you know I said hey there [TS]

  I'm looking for looking for a job I [TS]

  think I'm a born I man [TS]

  chill at this and the manager who was 35 [TS]

  to be kind of seriously although i was [TS]

  wearing combat boots and i had a soul [TS]

  patch uh-huh and probably a puka shell [TS]

  necklace little young huh and so he [TS]

  actually gave me a real application [TS]

  which I filled out and then he actually [TS]

  gave me an interview where I went and [TS]

  sat at a desk and he was like uh all [TS]

  right well let's talk about this you [TS]

  know you you looking for a job we're [TS]

  looking we're looking for people and I [TS]

  said well I think it's a match made in [TS]

  heaven and I was ready to start that day [TS]

  because I'd been out of work for a while [TS]

  and I needed some cash uh-huh and he [TS]

  said all right well you know tell me [TS]

  about yourself and we SAT and chatted [TS]

  and depth it up top and then I said so I [TS]

  mean my idea is right this is 9-5 job [TS]

  and right and your weekends off and I'm [TS]

  sometimes my band plays on friday so i [TS]

  would need to get off a little bit early [TS]

  in order to make it to sound check and [TS]

  you know we practice on tuesdays and [TS]

  thursdays so yeah kind of probably out [TS]

  of here for 45 he's just he's just [TS]

  sitting there with his chin on his hand [TS]

  anything else and I said and yeah you [TS]

  know given that it's you selling used [TS]

  cars it's not like you got to be here at [TS]

  seven right who's buying a car at seven [TS]

  so you know feeling like rolling at ten [TS]

  roll out of for your major like managing [TS]

  expectations yeah I feel like I'm gonna [TS]

  sell a bunch of cars in that time and he [TS]

  listens to me talk for a while and and [TS]

  lay out what my expectations are and [TS]

  then he does a very curious thing which [TS]

  is some guys fast walking past and this [TS]

  is the era of the wet look in men's hair [TS]

  gel fashioned yo yes oh yeah I was a [TS]

  dippity do man yeah a lot of hair gel [TS]

  which causes your hair to become brittle [TS]

  like the top of a meringue right now I [TS]

  know it's very crispy yeah and and yet [TS]

  also looks [TS]

  wet like like it's bit solid solid as as [TS]

  lucite but wet-looking and this guy's [TS]

  fast walking past and he's got this [TS]

  short hair but it's wet it's wet [TS]

  dippity-do covered it and the managers [TS]

  like hey uh you know hey Brendan or [TS]

  whatever hang on a second and Brendan [TS]

  like goes from fast walking to stopped [TS]

  he's like what can I do for you bye [TS]

  what's what's up Bob what would he need [TS]

  as a batch of my top and the bob says [TS]

  hey would you tell uh would you tell [TS]

  John here kind of what your schedule is [TS]

  like things like huh what my you mean my [TS]

  work kids yeah as a matter of fact sure [TS]

  I will you know I was me penny and [TS]

  buried they're very friendly yeah sure [TS]

  any kind of puts his hand on the back of [TS]

  my chair and he's like get here about [TS]

  seven I stayed till about ten or eleven [TS]

  o'clock at night every day I'm here [TS]

  seven days a week I'm just hustling you [TS]

  know what I mean like I'm everyday i'm [TS]

  hustlin I'm trying to sell some cars [TS]

  here and if somebody needs me to stay if [TS]

  somebody you know somebody can't decide [TS]

  and then it's nine-thirty p.m. and they [TS]

  want me to stay til 10 you better [TS]

  understand you know he's got PMA he's [TS]

  got positive mental attitude you freakin [TS]

  does and he's trying to put some people [TS]

  in smaller mobiles and as he breaks it [TS]

  down super friendly and bob is super [TS]

  friendly I'm sitting in the chair [TS]

  realizing whoa this is not the job for [TS]

  me at all where's all this hustle coming [TS]

  from these guys really care you've [TS]

  already shown an extraordinary amount of [TS]

  moxie just to be there it seems like at [TS]

  this point you should be able to just [TS]

  kind of rest on your laurels well sure [TS]

  and I mean I don't know if they've ever [TS]

  seen me in action uh you assume you'd be [TS]

  great at it you know the thing is there [TS]

  are stormtroopers right and there are [TS]

  Jedi North troopers seem to be marching [TS]

  all the time they're marching down the [TS]

  hall there marching this way they're [TS]

  marching that way they got that little [TS]

  toaster following them really fast [TS]

  toaster doesn't seem to be able to get [TS]

  down a hall without without bumping into [TS]

  a wall yes whereas a Jedi mm-hmm just [TS]

  kind of sneaks around Dresden or dm's [TS]

  like exactly you're coming you know [TS]

  Polly he didn't he didn't move fast cuz [TS]

  he didn't need to move fast maybe you [TS]

  you know I'm saying you come in there [TS]

  you're gonna change the temperature in [TS]

  the room my friend yeah that's right [TS]

  you're gonna be like John Roderick in [TS]

  their date you're gonna learn [TS]

  lot about how to how to move some [TS]

  automobiles precisely it's a it's a [TS]

  Sicilian message it means Luca Brasi [TS]

  sleeps with the fishes what I'm what I'm [TS]

  saying is you don't know I'm gonna walk [TS]

  into this used car lot dressed in a [TS]

  burlap road and I'm gonna say with the [TS]

  with puka shells and I'm gonna stay this [TS]

  isn't the dart you're looking for no I [TS]

  used to work with your father and then [TS]

  people are gonna be driving out of here [TS]

  it's gonna be a freakin traffic jam at [TS]

  the next light the number of people in [TS]

  Honda Civics heading in every direction [TS]

  uh so I feel a great disturbance in the [TS]

  force as if thousands of people are [TS]

  suddenly going to get a great deal on [TS]

  finance yeah it's like thousands of [TS]

  people are driving CRX is it a you know [TS]

  like on their way I'll just always think [TS]

  of you wearing the robe what the hood [TS]

  putting balloons with the carts good but [TS]

  I'm filling up balloons right that sound [TS]

  Mike you got PMA you got positive mental [TS]

  attitude you got a little bit of moxie [TS]

  and you just happen to be a Jew who [TS]

  sells yes yep people are gonna see that [TS]

  Moxie they're good they're gonna see [TS]

  sense the Moxie they're gonna feel it [TS]

  they're gonna be over at carl's jr. and [TS]

  go like I think I might need a new [TS]

  automobile yeah that's right I'm gonna [TS]

  walk out the door of that of that [TS]

  double-wide trailer and the Jawas are [TS]

  gonna scatter and then little broken [TS]

  droids of me lying around in the sand [TS]

  he's got a bad motivator so it's gonna [TS]

  you know what its gonna be like fucking [TS]

  swamp and nerf rats yeah I know they're [TS]

  Ferger I see it in my in my in my mind's [TS]

  Jedi I right now I see you fundamentally [TS]

  changing the way the cars were sold I [TS]

  see it I see it that's what I thought [TS]

  too but what how Bob Bob was trying to [TS]

  give you a little bit of his own a [TS]

  little a little bit of Jedi from Bob [TS]

  honey did you leave a mind trick [TS]

  Brendan's leaning in and he told me [TS]

  about his schedule but I look around and [TS]

  I'm seeing that Chet and and Dougie and [TS]

  the other guys have all been listening [TS]

  in on my interview because it's an [TS]

  open-plan office which is to say there's [TS]

  just a bunch of desks in the in the [TS]

  lobby of [TS]

  dealership they've all been listening [TS]

  and they're all smirking and this is the [TS]

  one tonight and I think I think as [TS]

  Brendan walked by and got grabbed by Bob [TS]

  he had also been listening and was also [TS]

  smirking and this was one of the rare [TS]

  instances where a whole bunch of guys [TS]

  with dippity-do in their hair smirking [TS]

  at me was justified they were [TS]

  justifiably Sparky yeah yeah because [TS]

  again i had walked in to hockey practice [TS]

  with a pair of skis and I'd said look I [TS]

  got this have you guys met you guys [TS]

  maybe have never seen a guy audition for [TS]

  the Oilers with skis but here I am [TS]

  you're the problems of the [TS]

  outside-the-box thinker is that in a [TS]

  given context you need somebody who fuzz [TS]

  first understands what the fucking box [TS]

  is before they decide to be out of it [TS]

  you gotta know what the box you don't [TS]

  know what the pot you know saying I [TS]

  didn't know the box was right like you [TS]

  know you don't get to be Picasso by just [TS]

  you know scribbling on a page you know [TS]

  in that case but that's that's what it [TS]

  feels like and this is that weird [TS]

  provincialism of youth is really feeling [TS]

  like you know it's like God my friend [TS]

  hair used to say he's like I've never [TS]

  played drums but I just feel like I'd be [TS]

  really good at drums yeah he did [TS]

  eventually learn to play drums but you [TS]

  know that feeling give me the tennis [TS]

  racket obviously I'm Pete Townsend yeah [TS]

  well and and I'm picturing the situation [TS]

  where like I'm standing there in the car [TS]

  lot and like hamid karzai with his 11th [TS]

  fret as 11 family members arrived was [TS]

  wearing his azz Afghani Duke and he says [TS]

  I want to get into a CRX and I say [TS]

  awesome we're gonna make this happen I [TS]

  got band practice but let me give you my [TS]

  card tomorrow morning come sign you know [TS]

  sign the document so you'd be also [TS]

  moving into fleet sales well I mean or [TS]

  you know who knows what who knows what [TS]

  cars i was looking for at to test a good [TS]

  point yeah he might not want to be too [TS]

  matchy-matchy exactly and you know and [TS]

  well i don't know i don't know exactly [TS]

  at that point what the best honda for a [TS]

  desert environment is right because that [TS]

  was the biggest problem with the thing [TS]

  is you get people who are too [TS]

  constrained by the idea that they have [TS]

  to understand how to be a car salesman [TS]

  you're going to miss a lot of people [TS]

  you're going to miss a lot of Jedi's [TS]

  with PMA [TS]

  sighs yeah Prissy's anyway so i look [TS]

  around and i realized that i am a figure [TS]

  of fun 226 dippity-do guys who used to [TS]

  be in the same fraternity at the [TS]

  University of the University of [TS]

  California Davis and so I skid and Bob [TS]

  is real super nice about it and he's [TS]

  like um so anyway based on this I feel [TS]

  like uh you know do some thinking on it [TS]

  about like hat and he actually says that [TS]

  about like hat and he actually says that [TS]

  it's about how committed you are to [TS]

  selling cars and I stood up and he stood [TS]

  up and we shook hands and I was like I'm [TS]

  gonna go do some hard thinking on this [TS]

  and he was like okay great get back to [TS]

  us because we are looking for somebody [TS]

  soup that I was the interesting I was [TS]

  like very good talk to you I'm sure [TS]

  we'll talk again he was like could I [TS]

  look forward to it and everybody in the [TS]

  everybody in the place as I walked out [TS]

  the door was like thanks for stopping by [TS]

  look forward to talking to you you know [TS]

  and really really nice as they just as [TS]

  we I moved toward the door and they had [TS]

  a very light hand on my back but desde [TS]

  have your process what was really [TS]

  happening cuz I mean do you think it was [TS]

  ultimately a kind of sales job were they [TS]

  staying in character they didn't they [TS]

  didn't like break into behind-the-scenes [TS]

  mode in any way it sounds like no I [TS]

  think it was I think it was a situation [TS]

  where car dealers i'm betting have [TS]

  already I mean they know as well as we [TS]

  do that there is a cliche or right that [TS]

  there is a that people cast aspersions [TS]

  upon them and so within their fraternity [TS]

  they are they understand that they are [TS]

  actually a breed apart and they embrace [TS]

  the idea that they are are they embrace [TS]

  the the misunderstanding that they are [TS]

  sleazes as a component of their own [TS]

  group identity right they're like yeah I [TS]

  get it you think you'd be a good car [TS]

  dealer because you think your sleeves [TS]

  and they probably put they probably part [TS]

  of the whole program would be to project [TS]

  it oh yeah you know there are some bad [TS]

  apples out there but that's not what's [TS]

  going on here that's right and and I [TS]

  think what they saw in me was and I'm [TS]

  not sure how many layers they were going [TS]

  down with me but they were like yeah we [TS]

  get it you think that being a car dealer [TS]

  would be funny you think that being a [TS]

  car dealer would be fun because you [TS]

  would get to just be corny you'd be a [TS]

  cheese ball and also sell cars but [TS]

  here's the thing being car dealers is [TS]

  not just hard it truly is a calling and [TS]

  we are like being a car dealer is where [TS]

  you begin your career as a salesperson [TS]

  sir and if you are truly a Salesman one [TS]

  day you know this is like rabotat run [TS]

  rat you run rabbit run what's this guy's [TS]

  a little bit like Parris Island I mean [TS]

  you're gonna come in here and you're [TS]

  going to learn stuff that it's going to [TS]

  be applicable for the rest of your [TS]

  career yeah this is all you will die if [TS]

  you don't make it through this [TS]

  particular phase of the training there's [TS]

  no such thing as an ex-marine that's [TS]

  right that's right call me sergeant I [TS]

  work for a living yeah many stacked shit [TS]

  that high so they are they were being [TS]

  very kind because what they were because [TS]

  it was a joke within their gang that [TS]

  like here's another one who came in here [TS]

  trying to sell himself to us but you [TS]

  don't sell to us mm-hmm okay we sell to [TS]

  you you're telling us yes you're telling [TS]

  us that you are come you that the [TS]

  undercoating is on from the factory on [TS]

  you mm-hmm we know that the undercoating [TS]

  is an option and so they spun me around [TS]

  and got me out of they had no there was [TS]

  no they had no interest in like sending [TS]

  me out covered in shame because they [TS]

  knew when I thought about it I was not I [TS]

  didn't have it they gave you any plenty [TS]

  of mental and emotional ammunition to [TS]

  realize how off-base you were mmm kinda [TS]

  yeah well and and and walking up the [TS]

  hill from the honda dealership thinking [TS]

  to myself i do not have what it takes to [TS]

  be a used car dealer was for sure [TS]

  reckoning because at that point in time [TS]

  I could not differentiate between [TS]

  between the motivation of any career so [TS]

  it seemed to me that if you were going [TS]

  to be a philosophy professor or you were [TS]

  going to sell boats or you were going to [TS]

  reupholster mid-century modern furniture [TS]

  the the commonality between those three [TS]

  jobs was that you had [TS]

  some quality of job having a tude right [TS]

  that every one of those jobs required [TS]

  that you have moxie that you work [TS]

  overtime that you you that you want it [TS]

  so bad right and and maybe that's [TS]

  actually true I mean from the standpoint [TS]

  of a 22 year old okay if I wanted to be [TS]

  a philosophy professor if I wanted to [TS]

  sell luxury yachts or if I wanted to be [TS]

  a upholster ER I would need to pursue [TS]

  that and pursue it with like with an [TS]

  enough passion to get through the [TS]

  apprenticeship period and what I knew [TS]

  about myself was that I did not want to [TS]

  do anything that much I'm so interested [TS]

  in the idea of the calling that's a [TS]

  phrase I think I feel like that's a [TS]

  phrase you would hear used primarily to [TS]

  say calling to the clergy like you feel [TS]

  a calling to become a priest or you feel [TS]

  like the Lord is calling you to become a [TS]

  nun and it's it's interesting because [TS]

  like i am not a salesperson i don't like [TS]

  talking about money i'm bad at all of [TS]

  that but I i do think say at least sales [TS]

  writ large might be a kind of calling or [TS]

  sort of like i can't imagine any other [TS]

  job you know like my mom is just really [TS]

  she was a really really good salesperson [TS]

  she was that rare kind of sales person [TS]

  were like that's rare to me anyway we're [TS]

  like people genuinely liked her like [TS]

  they want they wanted to please her and [TS]

  she was she was always so kind with [TS]

  people and so patient with people and [TS]

  she would put up a shit that I would [TS]

  never put up with in a million years [TS]

  like dude whether it was real estate or [TS]

  retail and but I do think that there is [TS]

  a certain kind of personality and maybe [TS]

  it's a little bit manic or a little bit [TS]

  like to my mind a little self deceptive [TS]

  but the truth is a good salesperson [TS]

  could sell anything whether whether it's [TS]

  a car or a diamond or a house or you [TS]

  know what I feel like we characterize [TS]

  salespeople as as you know like slightly [TS]

  unethical or because meditours predators [TS]

  because we've all had an experience [TS]

  where we walked away from a deal feeling [TS]

  like we had been robbed and and yet I [TS]

  think there are a lot of very ethical [TS]

  sales people whose motivation and [TS]

  primary motivation is look [TS]

  I want to get you what you want and make [TS]

  you happy and make you feel like you got [TS]

  a good deal which is a great feeling [TS]

  while at the same time selling this [TS]

  thing for more than I paid for it yes [TS]

  which is which is intrinsic to [TS]

  capitalism and making me feel like I [TS]

  could it got a good deal so if we can [TS]

  arrange a situation where you get what [TS]

  you want and you feel good about it and [TS]

  i get it to you and I feel good about it [TS]

  we all feel great and we all get what we [TS]

  want and I feel like that motivation [TS]

  within a salesperson is ethical you know [TS]

  it is absolutely there are a lot of [TS]

  honest sales people that are motivated [TS]

  by this desire to make people happy and [TS]

  the unethical ones are the ones that are [TS]

  just like lying to you about what their [TS]

  costs were I mean you have to do a [TS]

  certain amount of like hey look I gotta [TS]

  make some money here right but it never [TS]

  you know like I'm always I'm always [TS]

  trying to deal with salespeople in a way [TS]

  that's like no you know what I'm not [TS]

  gonna walk out here satisfied unless you [TS]

  lose she likes out a game but yeah we're [TS]

  a situation like rip off the next guy [TS]

  but give me a good deal yes I searched [TS]

  on the internet I know what this thing [TS]

  costs yeah act like I'm nobody's fool [TS]

  and you know I spent I spent enough time [TS]

  in the Moroccan carpet markets to know [TS]

  that whatever you whatever you think the [TS]

  lowest price that those guys paid for [TS]

  the carpet is they paid half that or [TS]

  they put on third but i am not a [TS]

  salesperson my parents weren't [TS]

  salespeople there's no one in my family [TS]

  all the way back as far as i can tell [TS]

  that ever sold a goddamn thing they all [TS]

  bought high and sold low that is like [TS]

  our family motto but i'd still love sell [TS]

  oh it's right on the top of our crest [TS]

  that's what our that's not our business [TS]

  you know our business is making people [TS]

  happy by them walking away feeling like [TS]

  wow I just I just took over a bank and [TS]

  he just didn't even know he didn't he [TS]

  doesn't remember where the papers are oh [TS]

  the thing with so my mom started after [TS]

  my after I think it might have been like [TS]

  wow my nose while my father was alive [TS]

  was when she started but of course [TS]

  that's what she started doing full time [TS]

  after he died so this is you know 1974 [TS]

  she's doing this full time but you know [TS]

  as we used to say in the business you [TS]

  know real estate is a contact sport like [TS]

  it's really so much at least then I [TS]

  can't say if it's true now I suspect [TS]

  it's true now it's all about a couple [TS]

  things I mean as far as the business [TS]

  part of this a big part of it is like [TS]

  once you decided in my primarily a [TS]

  buying person or selling person do I [TS]

  work on a team do I do this I you know I [TS]

  don't know how much that's changed since [TS]

  the 70s I'm guessing a lot but what was [TS]

  true then was that it was all about [TS]

  repeat business and word of mouth to get [TS]

  started it was going to take you you [TS]

  know year to three years to get to where [TS]

  you might have somebody who bought or [TS]

  sold a second thing with you but it was [TS]

  really all about going we'll listen if [TS]

  you're going to do anything with real [TS]

  estate you have to call this person like [TS]

  you need this army of people out there [TS]

  who think you are like unimpeachably [TS]

  honest and decent and like that is your [TS]

  opportunity in that kind of a market [TS]

  where there is the idea of the like the [TS]

  skanky guy in a blazer with the [TS]

  dippity-do you know saying though so it [TS]

  really benefited her to be the way that [TS]

  she was she would rise above that [TS]

  feeling of this being this really ski be [TS]

  kind of industry but you know I that's I [TS]

  I assume that that's true for cars to [TS]

  like your dad with the mechanic right [TS]

  you're with ease airplane mechanic you [TS]

  know there must be people who love going [TS]

  in and just visiting go visit with bob [TS]

  bob is the best i would never buy a car [TS]

  from anybody but Bob know my dad would [TS]

  fly to Al Torrance California every year [TS]

  just to hang out with this guy that [TS]

  never set a goddamn word as far as I can [TS]

  tell I mean my dad he would stand there [TS]

  kick the tires before I mean I would sit [TS]

  out on the tarmac in the hot Sun and [TS]

  look at them inside that hangar and [TS]

  they're walking around they're kicking [TS]

  dirt on the ground I don't know whether [TS]

  they're talking about World War 2 or [TS]

  what but as soon as I walked in the [TS]

  hangar not a word was spoken it was just [TS]

  like all he would say there rip rap rap [TS]

  my dad would vowel you know epidemia [TS]

  David ever didn't he go here yeah and [TS]

  but somehow they have this relationship [TS]

  you know and my dad trusted him but but [TS]

  this idea of a calling I really felt [TS]

  that the absence of a calling was the [TS]

  thing that was keeping me out of the [TS]

  world [TS]

  cuz I looked around I feel that way I [TS]

  mean I think you're really raised to [TS]

  feel that way and I really did feel like [TS]

  I was a born this or I was born that I [TS]

  felt like I was a born philosophy [TS]

  professor I had no interest in selling [TS]

  boats but I but and or doing upholstery [TS]

  but I did feel like I should be somebody [TS]

  basically they hadn't invented [TS]

  podcasting yet no but BMOC right you [TS]

  know it's uh something I felt like there [TS]

  was such there lightning needed to [TS]

  strike anything and and it happened one [TS]

  time I may have described this to you [TS]

  but I was on a ferry boat from uh from [TS]

  Tangier to Marseille and I'm sitting on [TS]

  the ferry boat and somehow I strike up a [TS]

  conversation with a guy who was probably [TS]

  my age now you know uh mid to late 40s [TS]

  people a people but he had that you know [TS]

  he had that glint in his eye he was he [TS]

  was an American living some kind of life [TS]

  where he was on this ferry boat and he [TS]

  seemed very comfortable on this ferry [TS]

  belt like he'd been on like he'd gone [TS]

  from Tangiers to Marseille many times [TS]

  and somehow we saw each other across a [TS]

  crowded dance floor and I was with a [TS]

  bunch of young people and we you know we [TS]

  were we were smoking kif and drinking [TS]

  some kind of you know garbage beer and [TS]

  smoking camels and he was sitting you [TS]

  know somewhere on the ferryboat I have [TS]

  no idea how we got into conversation [TS]

  with each other but we really zoomed in [TS]

  on each other and this isn't day this [TS]

  isn't a like a short ferry ride right [TS]

  this is all the way across the ocean [TS]

  this is an overnighter and we're just [TS]

  like really it he was like an older me [TS]

  and in fact he looked like me I have no [TS]

  idea whether he was me he could be time [TS]

  travel me this jet paradox this could be [TS]

  all alternate universe mean who's like [TS]

  they pull up a chair kid I mean cuz why [TS]

  would he have grabbed me out of the out [TS]

  of the Mist right and why would I was [TS]

  even if you don't mm-hmm great and we [TS]

  SAT and talked for a long long time and [TS]

  you know I was so [TS]

  full of shit when I was 20 years old i [TS]

  was i was so full of shit i was a giant [TS]

  rare so rare for somebody in early [TS]

  twenty to be full of shit I was uh I was [TS]

  like a tanker truck of shit and I had I [TS]

  just was spinning all the time spinning [TS]

  yarn spinning big highfalutin you know [TS]

  just gobbledygook and he was very [TS]

  patient and we were talking earnestly [TS]

  just frankly as I would be if I was if I [TS]

  met somebody like that now right I would [TS]

  be very patient I would be slightly [TS]

  bemused as this kid told me that it was [TS]

  meant to be a philosopher in a used car [TS]

  salesman or whatever or that that the [TS]

  philosophy of used cars was something [TS]

  that no one had fully explored and you [TS]

  know what he kind of he seeded he seeded [TS]

  the pot a little bit and after many [TS]

  hours of this he said listen here's what [TS]

  I think you should do you know I was [TS]

  like yes because very few adults ever [TS]

  said that to me that way and he said [TS]

  don't go back to America you don't you [TS]

  don't belong there this is where you [TS]

  belong out on the out on the open ocean [TS]

  like make your own way make your own way [TS]

  in the world don't don't worry about to [TS]

  go back to college don't worry about [TS]

  this go back to the United States and [TS]

  impress your high school friends like [TS]

  get on with it there's a big wide world [TS]

  out there and you're already you're [TS]

  already you've cut the cable already [TS]

  done the hardest part in some ways [TS]

  that's the first step you're out here [TS]

  you got no money you're in your washing [TS]

  your clothes in the in the sink of a [TS]

  Pensione every night you got no friends [TS]

  let's be honest and you've got nothing [TS]

  you got nothing except you have you are [TS]

  young and you have all your strength and [TS]

  you got all this you hear spinning all [TS]

  this garbage right you've got you know [TS]

  your mind is going a thousand miles an [TS]

  hour so get on with it get out of here [TS]

  what are you doing on this boat you [TS]

  don't you going over to Italy to hang [TS]

  out with some college dorks at the [TS]

  University of Florence like that's not [TS]

  what you know I mean go for it right I [TS]

  mean there's more bearded consumed [TS]

  he's he's encouraging you to really [TS]

  shake up your worldview yeah he's saying [TS]

  go to India he's saying keep moving he's [TS]

  saying I mean and this was two months [TS]

  before the Berlin Wall fell so he had he [TS]

  had this because he was time travel me [TS]

  he had this idea right that there was [TS]

  this opening that up till now there was [TS]

  no Prague but in four months there was [TS]

  going to be a Prague and you could not [TS]

  live in Prague except under special [TS]

  circumstances in June of 1989 but by may [TS]

  of nineteen ninety be the first Western [TS]

  dumbass student to decide that progress [TS]

  where they're going to plant their flag [TS]

  or Warsaw or Istanbul or whatever and [TS]

  he's just and he just blew the top off [TS]

  of my head like like here you are this [TS]

  is you're already doing it you already [TS]

  have the calling now just cut that last [TS]

  rope and be gone and I was on this Boden [TS]

  and you know my eyes were wide as [TS]

  saucers and he had this you know and he [TS]

  was smoking cigarettes right he's this [TS]

  this is an earlier time when 50 year [TS]

  olds still SAT around and ferryboat [TS]

  smoking cigarettes but it's also I feel [TS]

  like it's important to highlight that [TS]

  when you are that age and you feel so [TS]

  why's that if when somebody is able to [TS]

  hear you respond and then cut through [TS]

  your own truck load of bullshit it can [TS]

  be very moving it can be very you really [TS]

  have this sort of like this feels like [TS]

  an important moment moment mmm don't you [TS]

  think absolutely and this feels this is [TS]

  pretentious this feels like the as they [TS]

  say the universe is trying to tell me [TS]

  something when I look back on my life I [TS]

  often say where were my mentors where [TS]

  were the guys that that said you know [TS]

  come with me I mean where were the mr. [TS]

  Miyagi's and the problem was I wasn't [TS]

  really looking for one there they may [TS]

  have come across the bow multiple times [TS]

  and I was like listen you don't need to [TS]

  tell me about selling used cars like I [TS]

  was I one of the characteristics of a [TS]

  mint [TS]

  or is not that he's begging 20 year olds [TS]

  to accept his teachings and what can I [TS]

  do to put you in this philosophy today [TS]

  that's right like odo oh you would like [TS]

  to learn glassblowing I'm begging you to [TS]

  follow followme you know but this one [TS]

  particular encounter was actually this [TS]

  moment where there was a teacher and it [TS]

  was prior to any kind of situation where [TS]

  I could have remained in contact with [TS]

  him I don't think either of us made any [TS]

  attempt to to retain contact with each [TS]

  other because as far as I could tell and [TS]

  he may be thinking back on it he may [TS]

  have been full of shit too but he gave [TS]

  the impression of being someone who had [TS]

  done this who had cut these ties and it [TS]

  would have been he would have been [TS]

  coming out of a 60s context so he may [TS]

  have been the the rare individual cut [TS]

  the ties and then prospered you know he [TS]

  wasn't sitting on the the streets of [TS]

  Mumbai with a with a tin cup he had cut [TS]

  his ties but now was a citizen of the [TS]

  world and I think he may have even used [TS]

  the term citizen of the world so for [TS]

  about four months in Europe at that time [TS]

  1989 I vagabond it around I did go to [TS]

  the University of Florence and drink a [TS]

  lot of what ended up in chianti because [TS]

  they don't really this is all almost a [TS]

  decade before the big walk yep it was [TS]

  exactly a decade before the big one and [TS]

  I wandered around Europe at the time [TS]

  thinking to myself I have cut the cable [TS]

  I am now a citizen of the world and and [TS]

  I'm a cat who walked by his wild loan [TS]

  and all things look alike to me and then [TS]

  the Berlin Wall did fall and I did [TS]

  happen to be I wasn't happen I read in [TS]

  the on the front page of the [TS]

  International Herald Tribune that there [TS]

  were protests in East Germany and [TS]

  obviously in Hungary at that point [TS]

  things had come unglued and it seemed [TS]

  like all the dominoes were falling what [TS]

  the fuck was i doing in Florence and I [TS]

  got on a night train to Berlin and [TS]

  arrived on [TS]

  11th 1989 as the wall opened so I was [TS]

  there and spent that you know and spent [TS]

  10 days with a hammer and chisel [TS]

  chipping away at the frickin wall and [TS]

  woods really yeah I was there how do I [TS]

  not know this oh my god um and and had [TS]

  and and got there only because got there [TS]

  at that moment only because i was laying [TS]

  around in florence drunk on Chianti and [TS]

  had been there a month and i was like [TS]

  guy what am i doing and then I saw this [TS]

  newspaper headline and said this is not [TS]

  Florence not the center Berlin is the [TS]

  center and so I was there and there you [TS]

  know whenever there's a retrospective of [TS]

  all those photographs of people climbing [TS]

  on the walls in sections falling over [TS]

  yeah they're Brandenburg I always scan [TS]

  them because I was there and I've never [TS]

  found a picture of my there was a member [TS]

  being on a ladder hammering and the [TS]

  thing about the Berlin Wall is it wasn't [TS]

  just like you didn't put a chisel on to [TS]

  that and Hammer it and big chunks of it [TS]

  fell away that concrete was really [TS]

  strangely like amazingly solid but also [TS]

  kind of spongy so you would hit it with [TS]

  a hammer and your hammer would kind of [TS]

  bounce back you would barely get in you [TS]

  just get these tiny little slivers [TS]

  that's why when you see the the Berlin [TS]

  Wall having been chiseled it's just kind [TS]

  of like tiny little openings right [TS]

  nobody nobody got up there and just [TS]

  broke whole sections of it away they [TS]

  actually like you chiseled like you were [TS]

  breaking out of prison it would take [TS]

  months to chisel through this wall but [TS]

  I'm up there on a ladder just hammering [TS]

  away at this wall and there were [TS]

  photographers all around like Kapow [TS]

  Kapow Kapow because they didn't know [TS]

  what to point their cameras at and and [TS]

  when the when the actual like when the [TS]

  gate opened and the little and all the [TS]

  East Germans in their little trabant [TS]

  like six of them in a Trabant driving [TS]

  slowly through checkpoint charlie and on [TS]

  the other side like the West Germans [TS]

  were we're like to actually throwing [TS]

  handfuls of deutsche marks in the [TS]

  windows of these turbines like welcome [TS]

  to the west here is money and [TS]

  Wow handing them uh champagne and just [TS]

  like it was a it was a orgiastic riot of [TS]

  like welcome to the west it couldn't [TS]

  they were shaking cars with enthusiasm [TS]

  and the East Germans looked like they [TS]

  were they had just landed on Mars you [TS]

  know their eyes were just freaking out [TS]

  they were just freaking out like [TS]

  emotional well they didn't have I mean [TS]

  was it the in East Germany they probably [TS]

  that was pretty controlled media to they [TS]

  probably I'm guessing didn't well their [TS]

  understanding of West Germany was that [TS]

  it was a whorehouse right that it was a [TS]

  it was a drug den and that but they all [TS]

  knew people that had they only West [TS]

  Germans right and their relatives and [TS]

  stuff but they just they couldn't [TS]

  believe what they were seeing and they [TS]

  and they no one had prepared them for [TS]

  the fact that people would be throwing [TS]

  money in their windows what happened it [TS]

  happened pretty fast like it would just [TS]

  seem like that one year like so much [TS]

  stuff happened so fast well because I [TS]

  had been in I had been in Germany in [TS]

  September of that year and had gone and [TS]

  it stood there I stood there next to the [TS]

  Reichstag and looked across the river [TS]

  and the you know the border guards are [TS]

  looking at you through binoculars and [TS]

  there in the river and they're in their [TS]

  boats their machine gun boats I mean it [TS]

  was a tense and freaked out atmosphere [TS]

  even I still have my East German visas [TS]

  because I actually paid the 50 Deutsche [TS]

  marks and went over into East Berlin in [TS]

  the summer of 89 and it was it was just [TS]

  like every spy movie you know it took us [TS]

  we went through five different long [TS]

  hallways with blind turns and come to a [TS]

  guy in them saying you could go there [TS]

  but they couldn't come over here yeah [TS]

  you could pay money and go into East [TS]

  Berlin and walk around and have dinner [TS]

  and you know and you had to pay for you [TS]

  had to exchange Deutsche marks at the [TS]

  official rate but as soon as you were [TS]

  out in east germany it's not like there [TS]

  were people standing there ready to [TS]

  change money it all was done kind of [TS]

  like somebody would sidle up to you and [TS]

  be like you woman you want to want a [TS]

  little bit better deal on the deutsche [TS]

  marks on you got there at the border and [TS]

  then you could you could trade fifty [TS]

  dollars of the West German Deutsche [TS]

  marks for like a million east german [TS]

  deutsch marks and it actually was a [TS]

  problem we went because you couldn't [TS]

  take the money back over and they [TS]

  wouldn't exchange [TS]

  bad buy something to spend it on yeah [TS]

  and we we went into the nicest [TS]

  restaurant in East Berlin and ordered [TS]

  every single kind of food we could and [TS]

  we were appalling because it was the [TS]

  nicest restaurant in East Berlin all of [TS]

  the Burgermeister 'he's were there it [TS]

  was like a it was like a very elegant [TS]

  place and we were gross like I was me [TS]

  and a friend we were disgusting American [TS]

  College gross people who were super [TS]

  drunk and just getting more drunk on on [TS]

  whatever and ordering food and just [TS]

  dropping it on the floor thank you place [TS]

  this is hideous we were disgusting and [TS]

  we're walking around trying to go into [TS]

  trying to go into department stores like [TS]

  I got to spend this money just money [TS]

  falling out of our pockets I got his [TS]

  manners my I don't know how people get [TS]

  their ideas about Americans Oh terrible [TS]

  we were you know we were the worst and [TS]

  you couldn't buy anything you'd go into [TS]

  a department store and it was just like [TS]

  they're well there wasn't anything you [TS]

  there was nothing to buy well um it was [TS]

  it was amazing but all by way of saying [TS]

  like these historic this this experience [TS]

  and all of that experience of just like [TS]

  living by the seat of my pants during [TS]

  that whole period I was doing it under [TS]

  the under the rubric of this man on this [TS]

  boat having said cut those ties go this [TS]

  is these your calling be a citizen of [TS]

  the world you are you are done you your [TS]

  decision is made and I'm here in Berlin [TS]

  and frankly I could have gone the [TS]

  opposite way they're all pouring in and [TS]

  I could have poured out poured the other [TS]

  direction and have kept going I don't [TS]

  know tom moscow right i mean that was [TS]

  such a tumultuous time that an American [TS]

  student who was just like what's over [TS]

  here could have been you know could have [TS]

  gone wherever right I could be I could [TS]

  be Vladimir Putin by now um but it got [TS]

  to be Christmas time and it was cold as [TS]

  shit and I was in Germany and somehow I [TS]

  had followed some I met some German guy [TS]

  and he was like I live in [TS]

  garmisch-partenkirchen you want to come [TS]

  home with me for turkey dinner [TS]

  and I was like sure and I got to [TS]

  Garmisch and it was cold and I was so [TS]

  poor and garnish was so rich and [TS]

  sentimentality creeped in and I was like [TS]

  it's Christmas time and my mom and it's [TS]

  so cold and I don't have a jacket I [TS]

  didn't have a jacket which I probably [TS]

  could have I could have found a jacket [TS]

  but i but I let myself I I was weak and [TS]

  I let that weakness spread in the form [TS]

  of sentimentality and in the form of [TS]

  feeling incapable I'm scared I was [TS]

  scared to be a citizen of the world I [TS]

  was scared to look out at infinity [TS]

  because I wasn't sure that I had what it [TS]

  whatever it was I was not prepared to [TS]

  cut that last rope oh yeah you're you're [TS]

  vulnerable I wasn't 20 and didn't know [TS]

  that I could and that sentimentality got [TS]

  in me like a like gangrene and [TS]

  eventually I was I called my mom on the [TS]

  phone was like hi Merry Christmas mom [TS]

  you know this is back when you had them [TS]

  making a long-distance call was all a [TS]

  whole afternoons worth of rigmarole my [TS]

  mom was like how is it and I was like [TS]

  it's cold I'm mm-hmm and she was like [TS]

  well I mean if you want to come home for [TS]

  Christmas we'd love to see you because [TS]

  she's my mom and ice and I made that [TS]

  classic decision which is I'll go home [TS]

  for Christmas and then I'll come back [TS]

  I'll fly home for Christmas but there's [TS]

  a lot going on here I want to you know I [TS]

  want to be the first American dingbat in [TS]

  Prague the Rope the Rope is still [TS]

  detached you'll just not it up for just [TS]

  this little while yep go back have [TS]

  Christmas at home get a jacket I have [TS]

  one in the closet that I didn't bring [TS]

  I'll get a jacket [TS]

  and and then i'll be back here and you [TS]

  know i'll be back here in january it'll [TS]

  be like going home for some or going [TS]

  home for winter break and then i will [TS]

  resume my life of a completely free [TS]

  citizen of the world I just want to go [TS]

  home and have because my mom makes [TS]

  amazing fudge and you know and and [TS]

  really I'm doing her a favor sure I'm [TS]

  doing my mom you're being a good son [TS]

  being a good son I'm gonna go back there [TS]

  I'm gonna give my mom a little kiss i'm [TS]

  gonna reassure her that I'm that I'm a [TS]

  good boy and then it's back to back to [TS]

  Europe to pursue this life of danger and [TS]

  so she said I'll you know fly you home [TS]

  and I was in Garmisch and she was able [TS]

  to buy some you know at the time you [TS]

  could fly $275 she found some ticket [TS]

  from Paris so I had to get from garnish [TS]

  to Paris and so I went on this long a [TS]

  train ride across the across Europe [TS]

  across the Alps at Christmas time it was [TS]

  very beautiful and I felt a sense of [TS]

  purpose I was going home to help my mom [TS]

  and and have some fudge and get a coat [TS]

  and I felt really good and then and then [TS]

  right right back to my new life and then [TS]

  right back right back to the life like a [TS]

  little more fun of a man of adventure [TS]

  listen if maybe you can put some fudge [TS]

  in a bag yeah it'll help sustain me for [TS]

  that first few weeks in Yugoslavia yep [TS]

  as I'm making my way got a girl's mom [TS]

  into the future and I got back to Alaska [TS]

  and I collapsed in a heap and spent then [TS]

  like five months smoking pot and and [TS]

  then I got a job as the Red Robin mmm [TS]

  truly a citizen of the world did you [TS]

  call rudyard kipling to me [TS]

  [Laughter] [TS]