Roderick on the Line

Ep. 236: "Into the Hat Weeds"


  this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

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  hello hi John hi Marilyn [TS]

  how's it going oh so early [TS]

  yeah how about that Lindsey Buckingham [TS]

  huh [TS]

  you guys we should be president united [TS]

  states yeah I take it he says he's 64 [TS]

  years old in that video you know so my [TS]

  you miss the deal [TS]

  oh it's so worth I was out last night [TS]

  with some other old people when i say [TS]

  last night I mean you know between five [TS]

  thirty and seven thirty talk about time [TS]

  travel and so I'm really really [TS]

  conscious of you know there's a small [TS]

  group of our small group of us old old [TS]

  old men talk about how young we look [TS]

  it's really nice i will DD stop [TS]

  complimenting each other or you just [TS]

  kind of casually note how interesting is [TS]

  that you continue to look so good and [TS]

  then everybody agrees [TS]

  oh no no we thought it all starts on a [TS]

  are congratulating your friends on how [TS]

  young looks what looks so maybe you look [TS]

  great so look great now you look great [TS]

  and then there's a there's quite a bit [TS]

  of like we're all good looking guys [TS]

  yeah you're looking yeah i'm gonna [TS]

  really good-looking guy we're all good [TS]

  look at got any group like that [TS]

  yeah it's a lie though of course and i [TS]

  agreed upon you know [TS]

  mhm yeah I agreed upon you gotta not a [TS]

  legal phrase it's a line from its [TS]

  titular line from an episode of the TV [TS]

  show Deadwood haha [TS]

  dad what I know the care you care deeply [TS]

  about dead wood that was special [TS]

  mhm they have a guitar playing on there [TS]

  too [TS]

  yeah that's one of those shows you know [TS]

  this is the thing that has come up i [TS]

  think before in conversation between me [TS]

  and other humans who the shows that have [TS]

  modern music alright you talked about [TS]

  this with the key blinders yeah peaky [TS]

  blinders arm its III can't I can never [TS]

  quite I get it [TS]

  I get why it's very stylish they don't [TS]

  do that and Edward L it is very it's [TS]

  very period-appropriate except for the [TS]

  very elevated language well I thought [TS]

  the theme the actual theme song of dead [TS]

  wood was a little bit how you say head [TS]

  and the heart [TS]

  hmm which is a little bit like a modern [TS]

  recreation of water it the imagination [TS]

  am I sort of a modern what will I was [TS]

  going to take our madam tape [TS]

  yeah we're like if you didn't know much [TS]

  about music in that time you think might [TS]

  think that's what it sounds like [TS]

  yeah have you throw their joy thing it [TS]

  doesn't make it a thing that's a pretty [TS]

  good point you know you don't want me if [TS]

  you thought it would shoot a banjo and a [TS]

  thing who still doesn't make it back you [TS]

  got strong feelings about well it's [TS]

  banjo players the body is not the [TS]

  instrument itself right boom content [TS]

  contempo let's say I don't think it's a [TS]

  banjo player i should refine this [TS]

  yeah the banjo so first of all the banjo [TS]

  is a wonderful instrument of him [TS]

  I think it's if you take a banjo player [TS]

  and you put a certain kind of hat on him [TS]

  right like you like i love banjo playing [TS]

  uh huh [TS]

  it's just that it's a certain kind of [TS]

  hat goes on a banjo player when you're [TS]

  headed down a road [TS]

  wow ok you're on a path now where I'm [TS]

  going to start we're gonna start to peel [TS]

  off so is that a little bit like bit [TS]

  like that like the version have enough [TS]

  angry because I started doing stuff to [TS]

  you the banjo player version of having a [TS]

  ring [TS]

  oh you know like the the Lord of the [TS]

  Rings ring oh I feel like it's just [TS]

  having it kind of start to change your [TS]

  personality or you know so you're [TS]

  walking around some kind of a Horcrux is [TS]

  going to do something to like start [TS]

  affecting the way that you think an act [TS]

  you put my flat cap on a banjo player [TS]

  and pretty soon everything is out of [TS]

  control [TS]

  I feel like if you are learning an [TS]

  instrument you are learning the [TS]

  instrument that you have right you go to [TS]

  war with the instrument you have yep [TS]

  about the instrument you want so if you [TS]

  are somebody sitting around you're like [TS]

  I want to learn the piano but the only [TS]

  piano that you have as a tack piano [TS]

  you're gonna learn to play the tack [TS]

  piano huh gonna learn to play the [TS]

  concert grand [TS]

  Oh learn to attack piano and so you're [TS]

  learning to play the banjo let's say hey [TS]

  I'm i got here i am going to learn play [TS]

  the banjo I think there are people who [TS]

  grow up learning the banjo as their [TS]

  first instrument but i think would have [TS]

  a lot of the time they learn the guitar [TS]

  and then they they try to like retro [TS]

  like they may modify they modified down [TS]

  to banjo they think interesting so [TS]

  whatever you started on you start with [TS]

  an instrument that becomes your way of [TS]

  conceptualizing music works and kind of [TS]

  back into different instruments read [TS]

  this was the interesting thing about [TS]

  Paul McCartney right his he learned [TS]

  guitar but he learned banjo chords [TS]

  oh I would we would even listen to a lot [TS]

  of beetles and happily at my daughter's [TS]

  request and i still can't get over his [TS]

  baseline I just said I set there and [TS]

  like Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is [TS]

  not by a long shot my favorite Beatles [TS]

  song this baseline on that is bananas [TS]

  it's like where did that baseline even [TS]

  come from or something like hello [TS]

  goodbye like how is he has he just keep [TS]

  getting better and better and it's all [TS]

  over six or seven years it's nuts but [TS]

  you know he was originally a guitar [TS]

  player now was he originally wasn't his [TS]

  dad his dad played like clarinet [TS]

  I wonder if he started on a woodwind [TS]

  instrument i think that i think the [TS]

  story was that they taught him the that [TS]

  his mother [TS]

  Oh new banjo chords and she taught in [TS]

  bandra chords on the guitar guy I you [TS]

  know I haven't read haven't read my you [TS]

  don't keep up with the robots my library [TS]

  of beetles me books lately we don't talk [TS]

  about the Beatles and years it's been [TS]

  quite awhile used to talk about them [TS]

  exclusively easy just pretty much [TS]

  Beatles Hitler and getting all the way [TS]

  mm but but so so I don't know there's a [TS]

  few set down a path and you're like I'm [TS]

  banjos my thing now and you put on a hat [TS]

  as part of that ok right you see what [TS]

  I'm saying I think I do yeah if you're [TS]

  just in the appear just devoted to the [TS]

  study of banjo and you're just in there [TS]

  banjo studying for your sitting in a [TS]

  tree or whatever wherever they teach [TS]

  banjo I think generally when you learn [TS]

  it yet that's taught in trees I think [TS]

  you're supposed to I mean I'm not sure [TS]

  about this but I think I think you [TS]

  supposed to be on a paddlewheel boat [TS]

  with no shoes and one leg swing over the [TS]

  side that's a great way to learn the [TS]

  banjo [TS]

  I mean Kermit the Frog learned it in a [TS]

  tree must be hard to keep it tuned we're [TS]

  in a swamp [TS]

  well sure because this shit humidity [TS]

  it's not there it's not the heat it's [TS]

  the stupidity but if you if you pick up [TS]

  the band junior like this is my new [TS]

  instrument i'm going to be in the I'm [TS]

  gonna be in a band that requires a banjo [TS]

  player and I'm gonna and I'm going to [TS]

  pick up this instrument now and then [TS]

  immediately as part of that process you [TS]

  put on a certain kind of hat [TS]

  ok i'm talking not not like put on the [TS]

  banjo player had put on at an actual hat [TS]

  and you think that that's a component of [TS]

  being the banjo player in your band [TS]

  that's where we part ways [TS]

  Oh in true rest sting I mean who do you [TS]

  think like and it's I don't even think [TS]

  it's a question of like this is my magic [TS]

  banjo playing happen without it I cannot [TS]

  play the banjo but it's that you think [TS]

  as the banjo player in this band which [TS]

  I'm just beginning on this course of [TS]

  life i'm going to start out with this [TS]

  hat on and this is going to be my hat [TS]

  and we're already were divorced you and [TS]

  I I feel like we really want to talk [TS]

  about christie Lee some days I'm kind of [TS]

  obsessed with christie Lee right now but [TS]

  been watching a ton of videos [TS]

  she was it he's a tremendous musician I [TS]

  don't even know where to begin [TS]

  I've been watching a lot of videos the [TS]

  punch brothers and nickel creek [TS]

  yeah in addition to loving his hosting [TS]

  of prairie home companion it's the show [TS]

  is transformed [TS]

  oh good I'm glad to hear i'm going to [TS]

  show you won't listen to but he's been [TS]

  doing it for a while and like the guests [TS]

  that he has on their way he writes a new [TS]

  song every week every week is a really [TS]

  good song plays the shit out of a [TS]

  mandolin and he's also there's lots of [TS]

  good nature jokes about being someone [TS]

  who will just just just on Saturday [TS]

  night's program he said you know to say [TS]

  about mandolin players they spent after [TS]

  time tuning and half the time playing [TS]

  out-of-tune yeah no problem [TS]

  there's a lot of strings and if they're [TS]

  very close together mm he's not very [TS]

  much real estate every time I pick up a [TS]

  man like seriously really want to [TS]

  stretch this out a little bit you can [TS]

  make this little longer a little wider [TS]

  and there'll be more room but he plays [TS]

  that thing like like if Jimmy Page was [TS]

  good on guitar he just he rips he rips [TS]

  on that thing indeed even has the [TS]

  presence of mind like when he wants to [TS]

  do like quote a famous line when he [TS]

  wants to quit the famous line from [TS]

  losing my religion he he drops the [TS]

  tuning on once one of the strings just a [TS]

  little bit so it sounds a little bit [TS]

  more Peter Bucky you as we cover isn't [TS]

  that nice but I was watching so like I [TS]

  say I've been watching a lot of videos [TS]

  you know again I'm kind of obsessed with [TS]

  that AV Club thing where they come in [TS]

  and play covers and they the punch [TS]

  brothers did an amazing cover of just [TS]

  what i needed totally on ironic cover of [TS]

  just what I needed and I notice a lot of [TS]

  guys in the band have hats this first [TS]

  thing I notice the second thing I notice [TS]

  is that there is you don't see two guys [TS]

  were in the same hat have you noticed [TS]

  this in bands it would be unseemly to [TS]

  show up for a performance banjo player [TS]

  or otherwise and you turned out to be [TS]

  wearing the state's almost like we're in [TS]

  the same shirt as somebody else in the [TS]

  band like it would be unless that you're [TS]

  doing that for up for an effect but to [TS]

  highlight that these were twins or [TS]

  something like you wouldn't want to wear [TS]

  the same hat somebody else in the band [TS]

  is that part of the Hat process you have [TS]

  to get some get some independence of [TS]

  your of your hat so my my understanding [TS]

  of perhaps [TS]

  which isn't deep or broad but you are [TS]

  meant to have your own way [TS]

  write your men not just to have your own [TS]

  I mean you're meant to have your own [TS]

  crown your own style of crown when King [TS]

  yeah and every person that I mean from [TS]

  the from the olden time like from hume [TS]

  times like say 1950 if you look at a [TS]

  picture like a crowd shot of people in [TS]

  nineteen let's say 1940 over and there's [TS]

  you're looking out and there's a sea of [TS]

  people and you look at their hats [TS]

  they're all wearing hats and you look at [TS]

  their hats and everybody's got their own [TS]

  individual take on it [TS]

  yeah for first glance it looks like a [TS]

  lot of men wearing the same happen when [TS]

  you look closely you see their different [TS]

  styles they're different materials are [TS]

  different bands and then they wear it [TS]

  differently they might be in a different [TS]

  angle and what's what's curious is that [TS]

  they're not there's not a huge color [TS]

  palette they're brown black tan and gray [TS]

  it's not like any of those people is [TS]

  wearing a blue hat or certainly not like [TS]

  a red hat you know this that they're all [TS]

  very muted but yeah the way the brim [TS]

  with the brim is the way that the crown [TS]

  is the way you kinda gret like you grasp [TS]

  it with your hands when you're taking it [TS]

  off and and of the hats that I have and [TS]

  I have what probably 9 to 12 steps and [TS]

  style you know felt vintage felt hats [TS]

  that I've come upon in the in the in the [TS]

  years and there's one of them in [TS]

  particular that really nails it for me [TS]

  like that's my look [TS]

  that's my hat I as soon as I saw it I [TS]

  was like well hello [TS]

  and all I and when I said in monkey with [TS]

  the other ones and imagine turning the [TS]

  other ones into this one we're never [TS]

  it's never right and I can never all the [TS]

  different you know they're all very [TS]

  distinctive because they once belonged [TS]

  to somebody and that person from blue [TS]

  jeans it would be like getting a pair of [TS]

  jeans that somebody warned for 20 years [TS]

  right right and [TS]

  but oh not just that but somebody it's [TS]

  like blue jeans that someone had from [TS]

  the day they bought them already [TS]

  designed a certain way because it [TS]

  because your hat [TS]

  it's not like hats came out of the [TS]

  factory all uniform and they took on [TS]

  these characters characteristics by [TS]

  being worn like when you went to the hat [TS]

  store you said here's how I want my [TS]

  here's how I want my hat steamed and the [TS]

  hat person would put the Hat on the [TS]

  steamer and then they would create and [TS]

  shape mold craft sculpt your how so that [TS]

  it was to your liking and you can you [TS]

  know you can steam a hat and read redo [TS]

  this on it and you can take it happen [TS]

  that you don't like and take it down to [TS]

  the Hat steamer and have it steamed and [TS]

  and made made again made a new so it's a [TS]

  it was a whole it was like having your [TS]

  suits tailored you would have your hat [TS]

  tailored and that's a thing when you [TS]

  when you look at it when you look at a [TS]

  cowboy band where everybody on stage [TS]

  including the stage manager including [TS]

  the you know the the guy running across [TS]

  the stage dressed all in black with a [TS]

  leatherman on his belt and it's kind of [TS]

  maglite all of them are wearing hats in [TS]

  these cowboy bands and it's not you know [TS]

  they might all be black hats but every [TS]

  hat i think if these people have any [TS]

  class is going to be like yeah you know [TS]

  a lot of a lot of mexican bands they all [TS]

  would actually wear uniforms they were [TS]

  all the same hat and all the same [TS]

  clothes from top to bottom I labanda [TS]

  band [TS]

  yeah yeah I think you will find that [TS]

  there have a special section for that [TS]

  kind of music do you really yeah the the [TS]

  balance of the narco tiros I is in [TS]

  Norteno is that what that is [TS]

  I'm i dipped into that just a little bit [TS]

  but this is going to i'm going to be the [TS]

  white guy for a minute just going [TS]

  getting burritos out here that means [TS]

  gonna go this is a this is very [TS]

  interesting music the production of on [TS]

  it is extremely I don't capture topic [TS]

  here going to get back to the hats but [TS]

  it's a very interesting style of music [TS]

  and they do some pretty burning covers [TS]

  have you ever heard the Banda cover of [TS]

  still the one is Wayne but the have nots [TS]

  i'm afraid the barber I thought your you [TS]

  were you were referencing still the one [TS]

  the old NBC from that wasn't me that was [TS]

  work that was player player was that [TS]

  band player of the band here [TS]

  you're still the one you can scratch my [TS]

  itch still 12 were still having fun and [TS]

  you're starting to launch the one and [TS]

  that was a that was a popular song on [TS]

  the radio and then I think it was NBC [TS]

  ABC ABC or means it was or liens wasn't [TS]

  player player was baby come back [TS]

  Barry come back dude it thickens [TS]

  ah yeah that was still that was still [TS]

  hit song on the radio and then it was [TS]

  made the ABC television theme right are [TS]

  and that was very confusing to me as a [TS]

  kid because i was like which is it [TS]

  well like what's happening this is being [TS]

  played on AM radio found extremely [TS]

  confusing [TS]

  yeah I'm still confused me and so so the [TS]

  the Hat being I feel like a lot of young [TS]

  people are not having their hats [TS]

  tailored because they don't even notice [TS]

  a thing [TS]

  yeah and so I don't think you get up [TS]

  onstage with the same hat as your band [TS]

  mate but I feel like what that has [TS]

  produced this I'm getting I'm getting [TS]

  super down into this now into the weeds [TS]

  in the Hat weeds who what that produces [TS]

  hear you you're going onstage with your [TS]

  friends here you have decided that [TS]

  you're all gonna wear hats and you don't [TS]

  want to wear the same hat but you don't [TS]

  understand hats very well you don't [TS]

  understand that you could all go down [TS]

  and buy the same Indiana Jones happened [TS]

  just have them steam differently and so [TS]

  what you end up with is for people on [TS]

  stage who are wearing hats that don't [TS]

  belong together [TS]

  hot incompatible right so one person's [TS]

  wearing like a very very small brimmed [TS]

  Frank Sinatra era trilby hat and one [TS]

  person's wearing like a flat top [TS]

  like a silver buckled mike mccready had [TS]

  which is like the bad guy from a certain [TS]

  kind of spaghetti western hat a liner [TS]

  which means likely je KOB Khun hat right [TS]

  yeah and that you've got like somebody [TS]

  wearing a straw boater and then there's [TS]

  somebody who wearing like a Robin Hood [TS]

  have with the giant feather and it's [TS]

  like you guys don't this isn't you just [TS]

  you just look like you look like a weird [TS]

  catalog of shitty hats you don't just [TS]

  having perhaps doesn't make you a band [TS]

  so it so that that really irks me [TS]

  because that it doesn't feel it doesn't [TS]

  feel to me like the hat wearers are are [TS]

  making the hats their own they're just [TS]

  trying to distinguish themselves by [TS]

  having I'm an interesting and more an [TS]

  interesting style about you going out [TS]

  for a take on that you give me your [TS]

  diagnosis sure not many people what you [TS]

  know again famously one of these things [TS]

  were since what JFK people have been [TS]

  increasingly wearing fewer hats men have [TS]

  been wearing hats less as a thing to [TS]

  wear today a hat is a statement in a [TS]

  unit of itself and of itself but also by [TS]

  virtue of the fact that not many dudes [TS]

  wear hats we have also become less [TS]

  nuanced in our understanding of what the [TS]

  Hat signifies or the subtlety of that [TS]

  particular say looking at six hats and [TS]

  saying like oh these are actually really [TS]

  different but I couldn't have all that [TS]

  do you think I mean is something where [TS]

  like that so let you go on vacation get [TS]

  cornrows or maybe get a Hawaiian shirt [TS]

  and you don't really think too much [TS]

  about it just think you did his a hat i [TS]

  picked up [TS]

  it's not something where you're [TS]

  investing much in it or you're not even [TS]

  still participating in hat culture and [TS]

  over way and and this may be a situation [TS]

  where my desire to understand the the [TS]

  history of a of a culture right [TS]

  even little bit in just just a slight [TS]

  penetration of the history of [TS]

  hat-wearing what hat signify [TS]

  at maybe has clouded my ability to [TS]

  understand that in the 21st century the [TS]

  way hats are worn is like everything [TS]

  else in the 21st century it's a complete [TS]

  undifferentiated Hodge podgy where it's [TS]

  just a checks and polka dots and plaids [TS]

  all thrown together and to be even [TS]

  remotely interested in the fact that [TS]

  this used to mean this or this is this [TS]

  is different from that because of this [TS]

  change in in history or in tempo or in [TS]

  the moment that's no longer relevant and [TS]

  the question is what how do you like [TS]

  what have you think is cool right now [TS]

  and you know that that kind of thing [TS]

  maybe i'm being inhibited by my desire [TS]

  to have things mean things but like the [TS]

  top hat and that the top hat is not a [TS]

  single thing if you look at top hats [TS]

  from 1820 I guess when they first kind [TS]

  of came on the scene up until the the [TS]

  top hats of twenties 1920 right I think [TS]

  I think you'll find president's wearing [TS]

  wearing top hats at formal events i want [TS]

  to say at least into the twenties and [TS]

  probably thirties where Woodrow Wilson [TS]

  you will you will see him off in a top [TS]

  hat but i don't think you'll often see [TS]

  maybe oh yeah maybe FDR oh my gosh did [TS]

  wear them he did wear them but he's a [TS]

  very fancy guy Harry Truman never had a [TS]

  top hat on so let's just make the [TS]

  morning right let's make the line FDR [TS]

  was a fancy fancy man and war top at [TS]

  Harry lot of photos of him and looks [TS]

  like a silk top hat that mean are using [TS]

  more like a fedora looking really smooth [TS]

  and really smart [TS]

  I'm sure somebody's gonna pull out a [TS]

  picture of Harry Truman top able to pull [TS]

  out a lot of things John Wright but uh [TS]

  but all there's a top hat with a top hat [TS]

  case [TS]

  look at that this has Jesse throwing [TS]

  written all over it [TS]

  they're beautiful because FDR I that's [TS]

  his top hat case [TS]

  look at that but the butt [TS]

  that the actual had itself in that [TS]

  hundred years really really really [TS]

  evolved and became like a it was a [TS]

  hundred different things so the the the [TS]

  top hat chester a arthur war and the top [TS]

  hat / where's our like not just the same [TS]

  they're not they don't even look [TS]

  anything like each other if you put them [TS]

  next to one another and if you [TS]

  understand she teaching at a university [TS]

  so so like choosing it looks so let's [TS]

  say so there was a there was a time [TS]

  there was a time in be in the early two [TS]

  thousands where the the long winters [TS]

  took a photo a band photo where we were [TS]

  all wearing hats i remember this is [TS]

  aaron guys were kind of getting big and [TS]

  it was one of your first like we've [TS]

  gotten big soda sessions now we have a [TS]

  photo your blue shirt with like an [TS]

  orange background in that I mean we were [TS]

  also wearing suits sometimes we never [TS]

  fully under here was a shower showing [TS]

  wearing a top hat sean was wearing a top [TS]

  i remember this when i went with him to [TS]

  the hat store that day and the thing [TS]

  about a hat store these a day's a is [TS]

  that you're not going to find an elegant [TS]

  silk top hat anymore because they're not [TS]

  worn know if there's there's no [TS]

  situation unless you were like at unless [TS]

  you read like the opening day of the of [TS]

  the horse track in england right what's [TS]

  that day whether be gay [TS]

  the Derby Day right Jonas calls but [TS]

  Darby this a dark dark turban good [TS]

  security they say Clark for it it's [TS]

  gonna be a costume it's like me when i [TS]

  bought a straw boater you go to store [TS]

  there's a c8 there's a single [TS]

  high-quality straw boater you can buy [TS]

  that's right if your straw boater person [TS]

  you're not you're not like splitting [TS]

  hairs over this isn't the straw boater I [TS]

  want it's like if you want a straw [TS]

  boater and that's what we've been [TS]

  reduced to write if you go to add [TS]

  or and you want a bowler hat there's one [TS]

  bowler hat even though there are in the [TS]

  history of the bowler hat 25 different [TS]

  iterations of the bowler sure but so [TS]

  with Sean we wanted a kind of or rather [TS]

  Shaun wanted a kind of mad hatter style [TS]

  top hat but we've got kind of that sort [TS]

  of swirling four starts out kind of [TS]

  taking gets more tapered physical yeah a [TS]

  little bit it's it's got quite a bit of [TS]

  paper but not one all the way to like [TS]

  other type of mad hatter hat that you [TS]

  would wear if you were going to see he [TS]

  allysin chaynes right you don't you [TS]

  don't want a beautiful mad hatter hat [TS]

  that says like I like my my younger [TS]

  sister is a jungle at this episode of [TS]

  rock on the line is brought to you by [TS]

  Casper you learn more about Casper right [TS]

  now by going to Casper calm / supertrain [TS]

  Casper is a sleep brand-new created one [TS]

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  to Casper calm / supertrain once again [TS]

  promo code supertrain our thanks to [TS]

  Casper for supporting rod on the line [TS]

  and all the great shows you want one [TS]

  that says that you are like Tom Petty [TS]

  mhm during the period when Tom Petty was [TS]

  wearing a top hat which Tom Petty did [TS]

  for a while before / even Tom had he was [TS]

  rocking the top and he was the he was [TS]

  that I think the modern rock top hat [TS]

  person he be [TS]

  he lit the fuse and tanya and and then [TS]

  Sean was a a you know he's obviously [TS]

  like a I am formidable person he has a [TS]

  formidable hair and he needed a hat that [TS]

  could that that projected a happiness [TS]

  that was as big as he was [TS]

  mhm [TS]

  right you're not gonna you're not gonna [TS]

  show is not gonna wear a trilby and have [TS]

  it do anything but make that make the [TS]

  Hat ashamed of itself right that will be [TS]

  hat is going to slink off and say I'm [TS]

  not a big I'm not enough of a hat for [TS]

  this person and the top hat was so good [TS]

  on Shawn that he wore it periodically [TS]

  there are some there are some shots of [TS]

  us playing live not just once but [TS]

  multiple times with Sean wearing a top [TS]

  hat and the rest of us weren't wearing [TS]

  hats are in any kind of costume other [TS]

  than just our Rock clothes she was [TS]

  wearing a top hat and I liked it you [TS]

  know it was it looks good like him a lot [TS]

  of the time when when when a rock person [TS]

  effects a weird thing and my feeling is [TS]

  you're like me [TS]

  not quite but this top hat on Sean I was [TS]

  like absolutely usually wear it everyday [TS]

  i think not i just sent you a photo i [TS]

  found off the internet of this when your [TS]

  sessions here [TS]

  photo shoots Eric swearing like an [TS]

  amelia earhart aviator helmet you about [TS]

  a what you call yours is not a Homburg [TS]

  use it is a number i would i would call [TS]

  it a Homburg Michael is wearing what [TS]

  appears to be a wig and the outsider [TS]

  been some kind of brown hat [TS]

  yeah the wig the wig belongs to me and [TS]

  the brown hat belongs to me Michael did [TS]

  not a did not have those things in his [TS]

  own good for Mike library good i was [TS]

  funny as at that point you know up until [TS]

  I don't want to i don't i don't want to [TS]

  feel too much [TS]

  no we usually redact this yeah but [TS]

  Michael had you know Michael had only [TS]

  recently shaved his head and him greatly [TS]

  had been liberated because shaving your [TS]

  head now you're now you are not any more [TS]

  concerned about what's going on with [TS]

  your hair [TS]

  remember that 12 hours after we met [TS]

  Chris camellia shape too set in my [TS]

  kitchen [TS]

  oh right that he was going through a [TS]

  real phase then we want to keep it tidy [TS]

  don't know did I retire we were driving [TS]

  through a bad a desert on the way home [TS]

  from a tour we played our last show [TS]

  we're in Nevada [TS]

  and the crib and everybody else is [TS]

  asleep i'm driving chris is in the [TS]

  passenger seat he said pull over here [TS]

  will you take milk you know this is like [TS]

  UFO country and I see your gotta go to [TS]

  the bathroom and he said no i just i'd [TS]

  like you to pull over i think im gonna [TS]

  walk home from here and I said said [TS]

  Chris the middle of the night in the [TS]

  middle of a desert not gonna let you out [TS]

  to walk home it would it would take you [TS]

  five months he was like I really I [TS]

  really feel like that's what I want to [TS]

  do I really feel like right now I want [TS]

  you to pull over and I want you to let [TS]

  me out i'm gonna walk home [TS]

  I was like you know winnemucca is a [TS]

  six-day walk from here and there's [TS]

  nothing between here and there except [TS]

  UFOs then I talked him out of it but he [TS]

  was sincere if I pulled over he would [TS]

  have gotten out with his bag like he was [TS]

  very he wasn't like let me out of the [TS]

  drunk he wasn't mad he was just like I'm [TS]

  gonna get out here and obviously he [TS]

  wouldn't have died he would have finally [TS]

  figured out and put his thumb out and [TS]

  hitchhiked to win market probably about [TS]

  a bus ticket but maybe he would have [TS]

  walked who knows but yeah at that time [TS]

  in your kitchen was like I'm shaving my [TS]

  head right now but I'm sorry I should've [TS]

  said he was sooo shading Michael said oh [TS]

  oh I see what you're saying he shaped [TS]

  Michaels head [TS]

  yeah I feel like I remember this pretty [TS]

  clearly and really thinking hard seems a [TS]

  little familiar for known each other 12 [TS]

  hours my kitchen I see what you're [TS]

  saying for my children play but but what [TS]

  about Chris I chris is a delight I bet [TS]

  he was a handful he was he was a very [TS]

  very quick very very funny i don't know [TS]

  how you guys made it with you and Chris [TS]

  and Sean in that same van that is there [TS]

  so many competing super strong [TS]

  personalities i mean not the other guys [TS]

  don't have it but like those it's you [TS]

  and you and Sean were enough but with [TS]

  chris and the next thing as a wild-card [TS]

  man with an amazing thing about Chris [TS]

  was that heat [TS]

  in the nineties in seattle Chris was not [TS]

  regarded as funny you know it wasn't a [TS]

  thing that he would have said he would [TS]

  he'd never projected like I'm the funny [TS]

  one right and when it was a we have a [TS]

  culture here of people that were doing a [TS]

  lot of of playwriting and there were a [TS]

  lot of actors there was a lot of music [TS]

  about we had a pretty tight an [TS]

  interesting group of multi talented [TS]

  people that were doing all kinds of art [TS]

  and Chris was not really he was he was [TS]

  deeply in the mix but he but he he never [TS]

  said like I'm funny I'm doing funny [TS]

  things he was sort of you know he was [TS]

  like the handsome One [TS]

  let's let's put it let's put it how it [TS]

  is he was the handsome One and he worked [TS]

  as a bartender downtown and he was [TS]

  charming and he had a lot of girlfriends [TS]

  and his charm was was pretty quick you [TS]

  know somebody would come up to the bar [TS]

  and they'd say something snarky to the [TS]

  bartender and Chris could put them he [TS]

  could put him away but again he wasn't [TS]

  you know like I'll I month I'm funny and [TS]

  Chris was a friend of mine and I never [TS]

  thought like oh chris is really much [TS]

  competition in the funny department but [TS]

  we got on the road and I think this was [TS]

  as much a revelation for him as it was [TS]

  for the rest of us and Chris all of a [TS]

  sudden uh it seemed out of nowhere [TS]

  revealed this incredible talent of [TS]

  storytelling comedic voices comedic like [TS]

  personalities such that he could take up [TS]

  I mean we could get drive for five hours [TS]

  and Chris would just be doing a sort of [TS]

  one man performance the entire time and [TS]

  though and Sean and I so so part of the [TS]

  the dynamic between me and Sean was that [TS]

  we you know we were both we were both [TS]

  funny but also we're trying to sort of [TS]

  you get [TS]

  deep were we were you know we were [TS]

  having critical discussions about [TS]

  critical thought blah blah blah blah [TS]

  blah and Chris just cut through that [TS]

  like a hot blade because chris just did [TS]

  an hour of a he basically we were [TS]

  driving through the desert he would be [TS]

  like well this is you know Bob Jenkins [TS]

  Arizona northern Arizona radical radio [TS]

  and he would just do like a radiant like [TS]

  a talk radio guy from the location we [TS]

  were in the appropriate voice and with [TS]

  be and as though you were listening to [TS]

  the radio and we would all Sean and I [TS]

  could do was periodically be like ring [TS]

  ring hi [TS]

  you know it's a like it's a collar and [TS]

  ends and Chris would take the call [TS]

  like wow let's go ahead caller and we [TS]

  would have something we'd give some kind [TS]

  of we try to throw some tennis ball in [TS]

  there and he would just very definitely [TS]

  take our call and handle and it was what [TS]

  we would like to tears streaming down [TS]

  their faces and I had known chris at [TS]

  that point for 10 years and I have never [TS]

  seen it before and no one I know had and [TS]

  I don't think Chris had we drove around [TS]

  for a year where you couldn't wait to [TS]

  get into the truck and well and in a [TS]

  situation where you would think like [TS]

  Sean and I were always jockeying for who [TS]

  was in a jockey for top dog but Chris [TS]

  just blew the whole thing out of the [TS]

  water Christmas was faster than Sean [TS]

  faster than me faster than this both but [TS]

  there wasn't any real resentment or [TS]

  competition in it because he was so much [TS]

  better [TS]

  well that you could shine the chanting [TS]

  city absolutely Sean fella Sean fell in [TS]

  love with him and and it's hard and I [TS]

  think it's hard for Shawn to fall in [TS]

  love with with somebody that is like [TS]

  operating at that kind of level and sean [TS]

  just I mean just loved loved loved him [TS]

  to this day [TS]

  so it was a tragedy that Chris couldn't [TS]

  stay in the band because he really made [TS]

  those i just made those miles disappear [TS]

  and was a source of a lot of a lot of [TS]

  like real joy not just a distraction not [TS]

  just like law but he he was tapped into [TS]

  you've tapped into some bigger thing [TS]

  we're just did they must have been such [TS]

  a gift at certain times I just I can't [TS]

  imagine the drudgery of what that trip [TS]

  could be sometimes if things weren't you [TS]

  know it was an incredible gift and and [TS]

  and it caused me to realize like why he [TS]

  had been such a successful bachelor like [TS]

  looking back 10 years before I did hate [TS]

  Chris in 1993 because you'd be sitting [TS]

  in a baby sitting at a table talking to [TS]

  somebody that you wanted to check on the [TS]

  bird heebie-jeebie jam somebody up and [TS]

  Chris would walk through and he would [TS]

  never see it's not like you'd steal [TS]

  somebody from right underneath you [TS]

  but he'd come in and out and this is the [TS]

  other crazy thing he wouldn't sit down [TS]

  across the table from you and be like [TS]

  the brightest light and everyone flock [TS]

  to him it didn't work that way he would [TS]

  just be sitting over there and my kid [TS]

  his seduction was all done in whispers [TS]

  you never knew what he was saying [TS]

  through because somebody would you know [TS]

  we'd be sitting there and crystalline [TS]

  over to go buzz buzz buzz in their ear [TS]

  and they would go and then they leave [TS]

  and you're like what the hell does he [TS]

  say things like that and and so so later [TS]

  on I realized like all he you know what [TS]

  he was saying what in their ear with [TS]

  something probably pretty amazing but he [TS]

  never he never showed this until until [TS]

  this period of just a couple of years [TS]

  where where he was barking through the [TS]

  sky and and that and the problem was it [TS]

  was only happening in the van [TS]

  like when we got on stage huh [TS]

  there wasn't really an opportunity for [TS]

  him to step up to the microphone [TS]

  and do this routine and he wasn't really [TS]

  comfortable in on the microphone you [TS]

  know like it if he had an opportunity to [TS]

  join in that kind of thing that like [TS]

  onstage banter right in front of a crowd [TS]

  he didn't that wasn't where he wanted to [TS]

  be he didn't like it there and we were [TS]

  in the van every day like always got you [TS]

  know we have to make a TV show about you [TS]

  we have to like we're just strategizing [TS]

  how do we get you in front of people [TS]

  you're the world's greatest actor you do [TS]

  any voice and after he left the band he [TS]

  went to New York City he joined an [TS]

  improv theater group he joined likes UCB [TS]

  what's really but uh huh never made it [TS]

  above the like the level of people that [TS]

  were paying to take classes at UCB right [TS]

  and he talked a couple classes at UCB [TS]

  but it's not like he joined the [TS]

  successful improv group while he's still [TS]

  handsome look at him he's very handsome [TS]

  guy and he went to as a great great hair [TS]

  the greatest he had great hair when it [TS]

  was when he was young and it was [TS]

  completely jet black and then as it [TS]

  started to get song pepper it was great [TS]

  it never stopped being great my great [TS]

  uncle my great uncle Truman who was in [TS]

  the Merchant Marines had the exact same [TS]

  hair he was German was 85 years old and [TS]

  his hairline had not budged an inch from [TS]

  when he was 15 years old just look like [TS]

  a just look like a washer brush like a [TS]

  like a badger brush anyway I met Chris [TS]

  was one of my closest friends for a long [TS]

  time and I haven't talked to him in a [TS]

  couple years don't know what's going on [TS]

  with him like somehow it wasn't somehow [TS]

  that pressure cooker of being in that [TS]

  van and I think part of the pressure of [TS]

  being in that van was that Shawn Nelson [TS]

  was there and that i was there and then [TS]

  that was a that was a kind of audience [TS]

  and a kind of a cauldron [TS]

  but if i could if i if i could put on [TS]

  tape the that year and a half in the van [TS]

  you know it was it was a I got something [TS]

  I can't quite account for you know like [TS]

  you meet people and you feel like I know [TS]

  you are like I i know you Marilyn and if [TS]

  we went on a road trip together and you [TS]

  cracked me up the entire time i would I [TS]

  have an idea of what that would be like [TS]

  right you could crack me up the entire [TS]

  time and but I know what it would look [TS]

  like [TS]

  huh but I didn't see this coming in this [TS]

  was somebody had known for years and he [TS]

  was my roommate for Christ's sake for [TS]

  three years but i didn't i have never [TS]

  seen this before this and it's not that [TS]

  he wasn't himself he was still himself [TS]

  he just all of a sudden just had the [TS]

  power of complete mimicry and the power [TS]

  of you of just like a character [TS]

  improvisation and character I feel like [TS]

  this is a phenomenon that you could most [TS]

  succinctly summarized as just because [TS]

  you can crack up your frat brothers is [TS]

  no guarantee that you would be a good [TS]

  stand-up comedian for many many many [TS]

  reasons and we started tackling that you [TS]

  realize how complicated all those things [TS]

  are there are some people who crack up [TS]

  their friends who could potentially [TS]

  become a comedy writer you could become [TS]

  like a comedy producer and this isn't [TS]

  just true for comedy stripper music is [TS]

  true for lots of things but it's it's so [TS]

  rare to be able to take it let's just [TS]

  stick with comedy for a minute but to [TS]

  take that skill of being funny to people [TS]

  around you and convert that into being [TS]

  funny professionally month stage or [TS]

  screen because it takes this totally [TS]

  different skill I mean there's this [TS]

  totally different like x factor that [TS]

  goes beyond knowing how to crack up John [TS]

  and sean and you know Erica Michael and [TS]

  I mean and it's but it's it feels like [TS]

  it's right there could feel like it's [TS]

  right there just like slightly out of [TS]

  reach but then you realize oh but [TS]

  there's there's the the grind of having [TS]

  to get into a group like that or like [TS]

  having to make this decision to like [TS]

  just a really good interview with Keegan [TS]

  Michael key about his name [TS]

  you know the guy from can deal w about [TS]

  how he basically they're asking like how [TS]

  we decided to go to MADtv rather than [TS]

  something else likes a sound like he's [TS]

  like well as money like they were paying [TS]

  better at that man TV and that is also [TS]

  where he ended up working even working [TS]

  with um his partner and doing like [TS]

  writings writing sketches together [TS]

  I don't know that this is a topic that I [TS]

  was found so interesting and you can [TS]

  expand it way beyond comedy comedy is [TS]

  where I feel like one of the places [TS]

  where you can feel it [TS]

  most strongly is that what what a leap [TS]

  is to go from cracking up your friends [TS]

  to doing this for a living and I think [TS]

  it's true for music i think is true it [TS]

  could be true for writing it's just is [TS]

  true for so many things and I wonder how [TS]

  often people who have succeeded with [TS]

  something could even like go to a high [TS]

  school and give a talk on how it is that [TS]

  they were able to make it big because I [TS]

  bet there's so many ineffable qualities [TS]

  and micro decisions that would be almost [TS]

  impossible for that person to identify [TS]

  well i think i think you're right the [TS]

  number of guitar players I've known [TS]

  between the time that I first started on [TS]

  guitar players let's say I was 15 right [TS]

  it's funny that i never i never knew a [TS]

  kid that was 10 years old and and [TS]

  already a virtuoso the first guitar [TS]

  players i was even aware of i guess [TS]

  freshman year in high school I knew that [TS]

  there were there were guitar players [TS]

  that you mean it was the thing that you [TS]

  could actually do it wasn't just on TV [TS]

  but by 15 I like new guitar players i [TS]

  owned a guitar but from that point until [TS]

  the present day I have known so many [TS]

  guitar players and so many of them were [TS]

  amazing amazing musicians and amazing [TS]

  even like songwriters who couldn't get [TS]

  you couldn't get to a situation couldn't [TS]

  get two of two a position where they [TS]

  were in a good band [TS]

  like let alone you got a good man that [TS]

  went anywhere [TS]

  look like they couldn't even put it [TS]

  together to get into a good band they [TS]

  either kept trying to make kept trying [TS]

  to flog bands with a fatal flaw or [TS]

  bounced from one band of the next and [TS]

  couldn't ever settle in somewhere or [TS]

  wanted the band to be really centered on [TS]

  them but they were missing a crucial [TS]

  skill like singing and you and you feel [TS]

  like then there are those few instances [TS]

  where you're sitting with somebody and [TS]

  they start to walk that idly hum along [TS]

  with the radio and you go [TS]

  whoa I didn't know you could sing uh huh [TS]

  you know sing along with the radio no no [TS]

  you have an incredible voice and it [TS]

  happens over i was in an eyewitness I i [TS]

  regret to this day not seek not doing a [TS]

  better job of corralling this person but [TS]

  I was in one of those something called a [TS]

  rock lottery we get started in Austin [TS]

  but we had 11 in Seattle and I think [TS]

  maybe it's still ongoing but what would [TS]

  happen is they would invite a dozen [TS]

  musicians across a wide spectrum of of [TS]

  instruments and ability and put them all [TS]

  together you know divide them up into [TS]

  like the groups of five and more than [TS]

  two dozen musicians like hear your five [TS]

  of you your five of you like there's two [TS]

  bass players a clarinetist a person [TS]

  playing hand drums and opera singer in [TS]

  this group and and then you're [TS]

  responsible for writing a song and then [TS]

  singing in at the end or performing at [TS]

  the end of the day it's a it's a [TS]

  interesting it's one of those things [TS]

  that's interesting to do and interesting [TS]

  to watch [TS]

  I'm not sure that if it was happening in [TS]

  the garage of the house across the [TS]

  street right now I would go over there [TS]

  to watch my guess I probably would it [TS]

  would be noisy i would have to deal with [TS]

  it but I i participated in one of those [TS]

  and one of the other groups so at the [TS]

  end concert were watching the show and [TS]

  it was like oh yeah that's really [TS]

  interesting you guys had a you guys had [TS]

  a sermon player has something bad [TS]

  something he's wearing a hat but there [TS]

  was one of the bands that had a a singer [TS]

  ma and he was a guy that just looked [TS]

  like kind of a punk [TS]

  punky guy also wearing a hat and a [TS]

  leather jacket and seemed like something [TS]

  to smoke a lot of cigarettes and he [TS]

  seemed fun but he started to sing and I [TS]

  just saw the future of music and Emma [TS]

  like you're the most rock'n'roll person [TS]

  i ever saw and it wasn't that she was [TS]

  that rocket looking it was just that his [TS]

  voice it came out and I was like I want [TS]

  to start a band with you I want to be [TS]

  the I want to be the guitar player in [TS]

  your band and I don't want to play [TS]

  anything complicated i want to play [TS]

  three chords every song is three chords [TS]

  because it's all it would need I just [TS]

  want to be that person [TS]

  loud guitar behind you while you do that [TS]

  whatever it is and I went up to him [TS]

  afterwards I was like wow you're [TS]

  incredible who do you play for and he [TS]

  named tsombe and that I hadn't heard of [TS]

  him that I haven't heard of now and I [TS]

  was like wow I really love to a year get [TS]

  together sometime or like just to meet [TS]

  for coffee or something and he he was [TS]

  kind but he was he very much had that [TS]

  like I'm i'm pretty happy with the with [TS]

  my band the lampshades sounds like okay [TS]

  well cool i mean still you know we [TS]

  should hang out he was like how we [TS]

  should totally do that maybe wasn't like [TS]

  he was condescending he was just like [TS]

  pretty much saw a lot of you just saw [TS]

  what he saw his future in the lampshades [TS]

  and I really wish I'd gotten his name [TS]

  because it's because in music it's it [TS]

  always changes right six months later he [TS]

  might have been like I wonder who that [TS]

  guy was i'd really like to get in touch [TS]

  with them [TS]

  but it doesn't happen very often where [TS]

  you see somebody that has that kind of [TS]

  gift that no one has you know that a [TS]

  gift and it's like they just stepped off [TS]

  the bus from Spokane in Hollywood and [TS]

  they're like which way do i turn [TS]

  yeah I want to make it in the big town [TS]

  and you want to be the creep in the [TS]

  powder blue link on Mel is parked across [TS]

  the street from the bus station was like [TS]

  they need a ride a ride in a hot meal [TS]

  but I I i know i think i know what [TS]

  you're talking about and is funny thing [TS]

  when you think about how you would in [TS]

  some ways how you this is very cynical [TS]

  but how you could reverse-engineer [TS]

  success out of a lot of careers you take [TS]

  a person who is humble easy to get along [TS]

  with shows up on time looks for [TS]

  opportunities to be helpful constantly [TS]

  improves their craft is open to change [TS]

  and accepting but I you think about like [TS]

  what like what makes people successful [TS]

  yeah whether you know whether it's a [TS]

  guitar player or an actuarial or [TS]

  whatever there's these certain qualities [TS]

  that you see and lots of people they may [TS]

  not be considered the name Abraham [TS]

  Lincoln of what they do but there's [TS]

  somebody that everybody could look at [TS]

  and go oh that person's a pleasure to be [TS]

  with and was great to work with them you [TS]

  know you somebody like you talked about [TS]

  christina aquilera how she's always the [TS]

  hardest working person in the room so [TS]

  you take all those kinds of qualities [TS]

  i'm probably missing some missing a few [TS]

  but anybody who has to do work with [TS]

  other people and in kind of changing [TS]

  situations the kind of qualities you [TS]

  would want everybody it would almost be [TS]

  better to engineer this this super race [TS]

  of terminators of people who had all of [TS]

  those qualities and then teach them [TS]

  guitar or give them voice lessons or do [TS]

  these other things because in all the [TS]

  things we're talking about [TS]

  sometimes it's just reluctant or not [TS]

  seeing that that's who you are who you [TS]

  could be but so often it's like well you [TS]

  know it's really if you really think [TS]

  about what we do instead it's kind of [TS]

  bananas [TS]

  wow I somehow accidentally got really [TS]

  good at guitar so you know why am I not [TS]

  in the rock and roll hall of fame was [TS]

  like what did you check all those other [TS]

  boxes because all these other things are [TS]

  so important this is [TS]

  yeah I think about this quite a bit [TS]

  right because we're just think about our [TS]

  our good friend Lindsey Buckingham [TS]

  yeah who by all accounts is a miserable [TS]

  awful person to not just work with [TS]

  mirror sounds very very unpleasant if [TS]

  you've seen that documentary of the [TS]

  Fleetwood Mac getting back together some [TS]

  getting back together documentary I [TS]

  forget what it was [TS]

  where they're working on some album in [TS]

  recent times and lindsey is just I mean [TS]

  you can't even stand to be you can you [TS]

  have to avert your eyes from the screen [TS]

  while he's on this because you just have [TS]

  there's so much bad blood in that band [TS]

  for so many very good reasons that it's [TS]

  such an act of graciousness just to even [TS]

  be in a room with each other that like [TS]

  you would all just so you all want to be [TS]

  on your best behavior and say you know [TS]

  bygones be bygones and let's just let's [TS]

  just agree not to be assholes with each [TS]

  other for a few days and I try to take [TS]

  this thing and there's a camera in the [TS]

  room so you're aware that too [TS]

  and yet all through all the years of [TS]

  like Fleetwood Mac gossip of course i [TS]

  always thought that Stevie next would be [TS]

  the difficult one right she's dancing [TS]

  around in the end of thousands carbs and [TS]

  and sing about Rhiannon like she's going [TS]

  to be the high maintenance person but [TS]

  watching these documentaries you go [TS]

  Stevie Nicks is amazing she's the sole [TS]

  of like patient professionalism and [TS]

  Lindsey Buckingham is driving me and [TS]

  everyone else crazy and they are going [TS]

  to great lengths to accommodate him and [TS]

  yet here he is this incredible guitar [TS]

  player and great not only pushing [TS]

  pushing his personality into the center [TS]

  of everything and this is the this is so [TS]

  so this is I am I think not [TS]

  not an invalid line of questioning which [TS]

  is that in our contemporary world we're [TS]

  taking it as as a as read that what we [TS]

  should be doing with our kids and in the [TS]

  inner culture at large is removing all [TS]

  obstacles for friendly good-natured [TS]

  people we should be teaching [TS]

  friendliness and goodnight [TS]

  students we should be removing from the [TS]

  we should be removing obstacles from the [TS]

  path of young people so that they don't [TS]

  have to confront adversity in the same [TS]

  way that we did right we we no longer [TS]

  put our cigarettes out on our children's [TS]

  arms who like but that's how John bender [TS]

  became John bender right John bender was [TS]

  the coolest guy in the breakfast club [TS]

  okay it's just because nobody else had [TS]

  that nobody's father never put a cigar [TS]

  out on them it's gonna make an omelet [TS]

  you gotta break some kids right here so [TS]

  but but the question is like Lindsey [TS]

  Buckingham is awful john lennon was [TS]

  awful and would those people in those [TS]

  people now have been kicked had been [TS]

  bumped out of whatever their career path [TS]

  was at a much earlier time by people [TS]

  saying you are awful your novel bully [TS]

  your ear and you're a mean person and so [TS]

  you're not going to be given this [TS]

  opportunity or we're going to be [TS]

  privileged nglish at your behavior over [TS]

  your talent and so were dissing cluding [TS]

  you and we're including you know Joe [TS]

  good-nature over here but what you're [TS]

  missing is the what ends up like [TS]

  neutering the art is the discomfort the [TS]

  the missing discomfort the missing [TS]

  frisian and what you end up is sort of [TS]

  you would end up with is this kind of [TS]

  like gray nutritive pace of music and [TS]

  culture that I think we're eat work even [TS]

  now starting to see like the very few [TS]

  very few people who are really burning [TS]

  bright in that way where where where [TS]

  they're so captivated be so captivating [TS]

  because they're on this bike path of [TS]

  self-destruction that you see like oh my [TS]

  god they're going to create or so hard [TS]

  and then they don't you know like button [TS]

  even a nile rodgers or whatever in 1978 [TS]

  he was it not on the path that we think [TS]

  of he's on now right he was really [TS]

  burning burning bright alright [TS]

  just not he wasn't a bad guy but that [TS]

  your people a lot of a lot of material [TS]

  out there to continue living hard so I [TS]

  so I don't know i mean i-i you never [TS]

  want to and obviously you can't you [TS]

  can't reverse engineer you can't say [TS]

  like oh let's if you sit in this chair [TS]

  you pretty as your finger with a needle [TS]

  everyday for an hour that will give you [TS]

  the the association with pain it will [TS]

  give you the familiarity with pain that [TS]

  will allow you to write meaningful music [TS]

  or make meaningful art but but we we are [TS]

  right now is it in a in a moment in [TS]

  human culture where we are hostile to [TS]

  pain and and devoting a tremendous [TS]

  amount of energy to relieve pain and [TS]

  suffering from from as at from as many [TS]

  people as we can to to the as guys [TS]

  greater degree as we can and painting [TS]

  strong a word because I mean you know I [TS]

  think it's normal to say like I don't [TS]

  make it to have an infection and die [TS]

  it's nothing to say like I don't watch [TS]

  out ever be inconvenienced yeah [TS]

  but-but-but yeah there is that there is [TS]

  that weird world between infection and [TS]

  death and inconvenience but i think this [TS]

  is all happening you know just always [TS]

  gets into the things like we've in in [TS]

  quotes bad words this is yeah this [TS]

  larger issue of like nothing should ever [TS]

  come along that makes you feel that the [TS]

  in my daughter's class there is a child [TS]

  who at a certain point just this year [TS]

  went through a kind of looking glass and [TS]

  by all accounts before was a very nice [TS]

  person and now is it is a hitter and the [TS]

  school district doesn't know what to do [TS]

  the school district isn't very [TS]

  well-equipped I mean this isn't the [TS]

  first time this has happened and they [TS]

  have a lot of they have a lot of [TS]

  solutions on a long continuum [TS]

  and one of them is a weighted vest and [TS]

  one of them is uh an employee of the [TS]

  school that comes into the class and is [TS]

  you know an assistant to deal with this [TS]

  kid and I know the kid and he's a he's [TS]

  oh you can see he's a lovely little boy [TS]

  and he actually there is something going [TS]

  on he does not want to hit he doesn't [TS]

  want to be a he doesn't want to be [TS]

  having this experience a lot of people [TS]

  to understand i don't appreciate that [TS]

  about you know these problem kids is [TS]

  like you can just see the misery of them [TS]

  like being run by some kind of clockwork [TS]

  and they don't like it either [TS]

  yeah something's inside him redone and [TS]

  his his parents never saw it before so [TS]

  they don't know how to deal with it and [TS]

  it only happened when he went to school [TS]

  for the first time he and so hit but now [TS]

  we're in a situation where my daughter [TS]

  comes home from school every day and [TS]

  says well you know I got hit again as [TS]

  you later [TS]

  he's hitting everybody how God and [TS]

  nobody wants to be around him but he's [TS]

  also a nice kid him and people want to [TS]

  play with him but what it what is [TS]

  happening ultimately is that everyone in [TS]

  the class is being affected by like they [TS]

  are getting they are having an inferior [TS]

  experience of school because a component [TS]

  of being in school is that you might get [TS]

  hit at any time by this kid and he's [TS]

  disrupting learning and so here but [TS]

  we're in this problem of like to at what [TS]

  point is he removed from school at what [TS]

  point is he sequestered at what point is [TS]

  he put into a into a box of like the [TS]

  unredeemable but by the same token do [TS]

  all the other kids have a have a right [TS]

  to be able to be in school and not feel [TS]

  like they're gonna get hit and you know [TS]

  he's not like a he's not a big kid he's [TS]

  a small kid he's just like they did this [TS]

  just happens right here and i think [TS]

  every parent in the school and and and [TS]

  and given the [TS]

  given the makeup of of this particular [TS]

  elementary school it's really [TS]

  astonishing to me the amount of just [TS]

  general sort of class-wide patience [TS]

  everybody has their is necessarily [TS]

  different [TS]

  different [TS]

  yeah there is no parent that I've about [TS]

  that iĆ­ve yet experienced in this group [TS]

  he's like my child is having their [TS]

  education affected and I want this dealt [TS]

  with now everybody's just like well [TS]

  let's see what let's see what let's see [TS]

  let's try other things [TS]

  well we're three-quarters of the way [TS]

  through the school year and when I talk [TS]

  to my daughter about it I and I and I [TS]

  think back on my own childhood you know [TS]

  there were kids that hit me later kids [TS]

  that their kids that hit and you and [TS]

  ultimately like the amount that her [TS]

  education is being affected by it i feel [TS]

  like there's another side of that which [TS]

  is that she's getting an education in [TS]

  the fact that that there are people that [TS]

  hit and then nobody else knows what to [TS]

  do like the grown-ups don't have a [TS]

  solution and this is painful it's [TS]

  painful for him it's painful for [TS]

  everybody and it's one of the it's one [TS]

  of the things and and the adults that [TS]

  feel like they should i mean and i think [TS]

  in a lot of other cases and it might [TS]

  just be that we have a very lucky group [TS]

  of 22 parents where everybody is where [TS]

  everybody recognizes that the depth of [TS]

  the of the complication you could be in [TS]

  a lot of other schools and there would [TS]

  be some crusader who demanded that there [TS]

  was something done or or somewhere in [TS]

  the in the school administration office [TS]

  this got put into the file folder of [TS]

  bullying who which we've all agreed is a [TS]

  no-tolerance thing and then this kid [TS]

  becomes tagged as somebody that needs [TS]

  not just like special accommodation but [TS]

  needs to need some punitive [TS]

  three in traditional yeah and so forth [TS]

  and so on but but what we're what is the [TS]

  history there is a 56 year old kid [TS]

  yes six years old yeah um or-or-or that [TS]

  he needs to be medicated like profoundly [TS]

  medicated to a you know in order to [TS]

  survive in in order that he be a good [TS]

  six-year-old in this context where the [TS]

  stakes are [TS]

  listen to stories learn to use scissors [TS]

  you know learn your alphabet who in [TS]

  order to do that he needs to be on some [TS]

  kind of like cocktail of drugs and so my [TS]

  take on it is look weird [TS]

  we're just trying to we're just trying [TS]

  to be in this on this Ark hopefully [TS]

  every year there won't be another kid [TS]

  who is like who makes you scared but [TS]

  there's always going to be a kid that's [TS]

  a problem there maybe are a couple and [TS]

  one of the things that you learn when [TS]

  you have a kid that hits is don't stand [TS]

  too close to him or don't be next to him [TS]

  without being aware that he might hit [TS]

  you at any point like be his friend be [TS]

  nice to him but keep one aisle and these [TS]

  aren't necessarily bad lessons you know [TS]

  it's not what you would want its what [TS]

  you're everything you're describing [TS]

  their I feel like somebody who you know [TS]

  have my own room [TS]

  I was mostly safe school safe [TS]

  neighborhoods you know one of the things [TS]

  i found challenging for a lot of my [TS]

  adulthood is just on the superclass of [TS]

  issues i'm going to call dealing with [TS]

  neighbors so that would be people that [TS]

  could be your roommate in college it [TS]

  could be people in the adjacent room [TS]

  people above people below but people you [TS]

  do not have control over and people were [TS]

  you can just press a button and make [TS]

  them change even if they are quote [TS]

  unquote wrong in your eyes and a lot of [TS]

  times and to get your head right about [TS]

  this you think everybody's wrong it's [TS]

  not doing it the way you want you know [TS]

  they're they're using their car at the [TS]

  wrong time and effort [TS]

  you put out their trash wrong about [TS]

  these all these grievances that you can [TS]

  come up with because maybe and I'm just [TS]

  speaking for myself maybe because I got [TS]

  very accustomed to be able being able to [TS]

  control my environment and have recourse [TS]

  for when it didn't go my way [TS]

  a certain kind of privilege if you like [TS]

  and I think that's one thing we're what [TS]

  you're describing here is super [TS]

  complicated especially with little kids [TS]

  we're not talking about somebody who's [TS]

  in 10th Grade and setting fire bombs [TS]

  we're talking it sounds like this sounds [TS]

  very similar to what happens at my kids [TS]

  school which there are little kids that [TS]

  are mm they're different they're they're [TS]

  not they're not govern herbal in the way [TS]

  that everybody would like them to be so [TS]

  as you say so what is solution we put [TS]

  them in the brown reading group do we [TS]

  fill him full of drugs like what do we [TS]

  do but that to me that's that's that's [TS]

  one place where like it's been a hard [TS]

  road for me is dealing with the [TS]

  superclass of issues that i will call [TS]

  neighbors because I felt like who i [TS]

  would do you like Yosemite Sam like [TS]

  you've got to stop being that way and [TS]

  like no they don't have to stop being [TS]

  that way [TS]

  thankfully if you grow up amidst lots [TS]

  and lots of people living a 24-hour life [TS]

  in a way that doesn't comport with yours [TS]

  you [TS]

  well then you naturally grow up [TS]

  understanding that well you know I could [TS]

  put in earplugs or i can move or I could [TS]

  do these other things but it's like [TS]

  pushing a rope to try and change [TS]

  everybody to conform to your idea of how [TS]

  that behavior should go and in the case [TS]

  of the poor people your school and the [TS]

  poor people in my school I mean there's [TS]

  really at least two problems one problem [TS]

  is that what the kids doing is [TS]

  disruptive and potentially dangerous [TS]

  gotta deal with that he said the [TS]

  government apart is the hard part get [TS]

  one kid in class like that I'm very [TS]

  sympathetic to this because these poor [TS]

  people are just at sixes and sevens with [TS]

  the resources they have to get one kid [TS]

  like that in a class it's a pain in the [TS]

  ass when I want you to kids like that [TS]

  yeah we get two and a half three kids [TS]

  like that in the class and pretty soon [TS]

  that teacher is spending sixty to eighty [TS]

  percent of their time just being a [TS]

  referee or a paramedic [TS]

  yeah right and that any other the other [TS]

  kids are just going to their fingernails [TS]

  and that's not why we sent him to school [TS]

  not getting noticed let alone rewarded [TS]

  for the fact that they're not punching [TS]

  somebody else or you know so i might [TS]

  might might take on what my [TS]

  responsibilities here is is that my [TS]

  like everybody's trying to figure out [TS]

  what to do with this little boy and the [TS]

  and everyone is taxed because of all the [TS]

  things that you're saying you can't just [TS]

  change him you can't take him out [TS]

  you can't you can't add adapt the entire [TS]

  school to him but what i can do is not [TS]

  be a problem in the sense that i can use [TS]

  it as a teaching experience for my kid [TS]

  and we can you know and and you never [TS]

  want to say like I'm sending my kid to [TS]

  this school and now i'm in a position [TS]

  where we're trying to make the best of [TS]

  it but in fact that's what you're always [TS]

  doing in every situation you send your [TS]

  kid to the public school and you try to [TS]

  make the best of it and even if [TS]

  everybody in the school is friendly you [TS]

  just your kids getting educated or mass [TS]

  who [TS]

  nobody's getting a tailored experience [TS]

  and in this situation there is this [TS]

  other this other issue and if it wasn't [TS]

  a little boy if there was a if there was [TS]

  a radiator in the class that everyday at [TS]

  145 suddenly went on with no and and [TS]

  couldn't be turned off and the [TS]

  temperature of the room went up 202 [TS]

  there are lots of kids in America that [TS]

  are in a classroom like that and if it [TS]

  was just that right across the street [TS]

  from your kids elementary school was a [TS]

  guy with the jackhammer that for an hour [TS]

  every day jack-hammered for [TS]

  month-and-a-half that's also something [TS]

  that's happening in schools across [TS]

  America and so in this situation i'm [TS]

  trying to help that little boy and his [TS]

  family and the school and my own kid by [TS]

  saying yeah you know what sometimes you [TS]

  gotta eat sometimes it's the neighbor [TS]

  problem and your neighbor put the [TS]

  garbage out wrong [TS]

  and after you leave five super [TS]

  passive-aggressive notes tape to the [TS]

  garbage you have to realize they're not [TS]

  going to change and so don't let [TS]

  yourself be in a situation where you get [TS]

  hit by this kid how about that it sucks [TS]

  but it's better than and you know I mean [TS]

  look at what would you advise be for [TS]

  something like what are you gonna do you [TS]

  stop writing public transit because [TS]

  occasionally there's somebody out there [TS]

  on their acting erratically and you're [TS]

  not talking about bombs going off every [TS]

  month you're talking about the [TS]

  occasional interactions with people who [TS]

  are who you can control their doing [TS]

  things you don't like and scare you [TS]

  and in that case I mean the only [TS]

  solution is to walk away [TS]

  I feel like we're now over a kind of [TS]

  hump where there is at least at this [TS]

  level I'm surprised I i went into public [TS]

  school thinking that we were stead the [TS]

  that the other parents and that the [TS]

  conditions within the school [TS]

  we're going to be kind of as I imagined [TS]

  they were 10 to 15 years ago where this [TS]

  would have been addressed with a lot of [TS]

  over action that there that this would [TS]

  have been an emergency situation it [TS]

  would have been a situation where the [TS]

  the parents of the child were really [TS]

  over examined like super launching the [TS]

  proletariat turns into something must be [TS]

  done about this now my Chum you my child [TS]

  is in this school too and is being you [TS]

  know harassed and bullied and subjected [TS]

  to physical violence by this other kid [TS]

  and I want redress you know all that [TS]

  stuff that I imagined was what was going [TS]

  on in the school's 10 years ago because [TS]

  i remember then you know I lived through [TS]

  those years and I thought that's what [TS]

  what what is how it would be now and I [TS]

  feel like there is because of the ebb [TS]

  and flow of time there has been [TS]

  reintroduced into these institutions and [TS]

  I think it's largely because the parents [TS]

  are different are coming from a [TS]

  different place some reality and some [TS]

  sense of like you know what yeah this is [TS]

  just how it is and and when we all [TS]

  recognize that there are limited [TS]

  resources and we all recognize that this [TS]

  is a real this is just one of the normal [TS]

  challenges of life and so nobody's gonna [TS]

  go to prison and nobody's going to be [TS]

  put on ritalin we're just going to [TS]

  figure out a workaround here and you [TS]

  know what's funny is when I come into [TS]

  the school now [TS]

  the teacher will often say hey will you [TS]

  go over and just give him a really big [TS]

  strong hug right now I'm the first time [TS]

  I was like what [TS]

  because I liked him but I wasn't sure if [TS]

  that was even allowed she was like yeah [TS]

  I think that he I can feel him like [TS]

  building up and I think what he needs is [TS]

  a big strong hug from a big man this is [TS]

  it this is a thing and I was like wow [TS]

  okay and so I went over and I was like [TS]

  hey buddy how's it going [TS]

  come on in and he was like huh and I [TS]

  wrapped him up and give him like this [TS]

  bear you're a good guy you know and you [TS]

  could just feel him like you know like [TS]

  you just wanted he just wanted somebody [TS]

  that was way bigger than he was to [TS]

  envelop him for a sec you see the temple [TS]

  grandin movie with the claire danes now [TS]

  I remember [TS]

  I you know last night I was watching [TS]

  Claire Danes movie called homeland [TS]

  melancholia melancholia uh-huh and Emily [TS]

  hearings in the movie she invents a [TS]

  machine for like basically squeezing [TS]

  herself and they're trying to throw out [TS]

  of school because if they get some kind [TS]

  of a sex thing I think there's a lot of [TS]

  the lot of thought on this now also I [TS]

  thought about getting a weighted blanket [TS]

  because we have as its under best I [TS]

  thought I thought about I mean because I [TS]

  i think that will call me down a lot but [TS]

  when I'm anxious when I sleep I think [TS]

  having a way to blank would help but I [TS]

  think I think there's a lot to that a to [TS]

  the sort of self [TS]

  well the swaddling is basically what [TS]

  absolutely yeah [TS]

  swaddle your ass and I think there are a [TS]

  lot of people probably listening to this [TS]

  program for right now thinking is there [TS]

  a way that i could find something in my [TS]

  own house to swallow myself with right [TS]

  now sucks modeling just yeah you gotta [TS]

  get a little bit [TS]

  everything is a weighted blanket yeah [TS]

  i'm i'm betting you don't have one now [TS]

  look into it it's hard to get from [TS]

  amazon prime because they're pretty [TS]

  heavy [TS]

  yeah right i mean that's thing shipping [TS]

  its shipping that's consistently get you [TS]

  yeah that's how the kitchen but uh but i [TS]

  do feel like i do feel like part of [TS]

  being sane and raising a child in the [TS]

  same way [TS]

  is to not expect that there's a solution [TS]

  to every problem to not expect that you [TS]

  are going to get perfect redress for [TS]

  every complaint and that's and I feel [TS]

  like that maybe was the philosophy for a [TS]

  while there and that is that it was that [TS]

  it you know that where we are now is a [TS]

  product of having been through that and [TS]

  seen oh we're not going to go back to a [TS]

  time when the bully was on the [TS]

  playground and was like physically [TS]

  torturing your child but we're also not [TS]

  going to take every kid that brings like [TS]

  that every kid that sits out on the [TS]

  playground and sharpened stick [TS]

  we're not gonna immediately put him into [TS]

  protective custody here like I'm trying [TS]

  to be circumspect about this cuz I i [TS]

  think when you get into these issues it [TS]

  is helpful to think about privilege i [TS]

  really i really do because one thing [TS]

  you're saying there is like I think he [TS]

  was making a really good point here [TS]

  about like you know how you get redress [TS]

  there's that term they use I think it's [TS]

  a legal term they say to be made whole [TS]

  which is the idea that somebody has done [TS]

  something or cause something to happen [TS]

  to you that has taken money from you [TS]

  it's taking usually money but sticking [TS]

  something from you and now there has to [TS]

  be some way to make sure that that is [TS]

  made right that you are essentially made [TS]

  whole meaning so i can one example well [TS]

  if you're working in a mine and you lose [TS]

  an arm just hypothetically because the [TS]

  company was careless about something [TS]

  well you can't give me my arm back but [TS]

  you should give me something to [TS]

  compensate for the fact that you took my [TS]

  arm that's gonna have a huge impact on [TS]

  my life now what we're going to do to [TS]

  make me whole so to speak [TS]

  right but then idea i think that is an [TS]

  idea that you talk about it like sort of [TS]

  a baseline of like we need to get back [TS]

  to my normal i think that is such a [TS]

  privileged position and people are not [TS]

  aware of it is like what he listened [TS]

  what is the rest of the world going to [TS]

  do to get me back to where I'm [TS]

  comfortable about how all this works [TS]

  right to me this is just a thousand [TS]

  angles here into this whole like you [TS]

  know whether it's making America great [TS]

  again which is essentially this idea of [TS]

  let's go back to a time when everybody [TS]

  but white people had a reason to be [TS]

  scared when we could we could demand [TS]

  that we be made whole and everybody had [TS]

  to capitulate to that because reasons [TS]

  I don't know I just and I do agree with [TS]

  what you're saying also we're like my [TS]

  kids in school for certain number of [TS]

  years uh it's feels so different than [TS]

  when i was a kid i got my just because [TS]

  I'm an old man now but like I don't know [TS]

  there's just so many things that seem so [TS]

  different and there does seem to be less [TS]

  hysteria about almost everything that I [TS]

  expected what it is for parents or [TS]

  whether that's from the teachers the [TS]

  faculty the faculty and the staff like [TS]

  there's just less hysteria about stuff [TS]

  than there used to be I'm super [TS]

  gratified by its it's so much better [TS]

  than I expected because i wanted to [TS]

  dealing with adults you're not dealing [TS]

  with a slightly advantage children who [TS]

  are wondering how they're getting ripped [TS]

  off [TS]

  yeah yeah I i really i really did expect [TS]

  that i was going to sit in a group of [TS]

  parents and say like well you know kids [TS]

  will be kids and they would all go [TS]

  no kids will not be kids anymore and in [TS]

  fact everyone's just like yeah I tried [TS]

  to make cake pops to make them all to [TS]

  appease them but they're monsters [TS]

  I was like yeah high fives all around [TS]

  right cakepops don't solve anything do [TS]

  they [TS]

  I i feel i feel like when i hear that [TS]

  made whole thing and that whole [TS]

  mentality i just i reflected his pickup [TS]

  that just pick up that just a little bit [TS]

  and it's completely it's crazy is what [TS]

  it is is like I think about so all those [TS]

  you and you're like you're getting your [TS]

  olive oils father in the world owes you [TS]

  an apology [TS]

  it seems like it seems from what i hear [TS]

  is to people in divorce court and you're [TS]

  going to be needing it [TS]

  yeah and if you think about be number of [TS]

  of uh of divorces where that feeling [TS]

  that i'm going to be made whole and I'm [TS]

  gonna take it out of of my partner were [TS]

  splitting up and i'm going to be made [TS]

  whole and and the acrimony that comes [TS]

  into a divorce when in fact everybody [TS]

  got about what their do right like you [TS]

  can be made whole here [TS]

  you're breaking up and it's not a [TS]

  question even of money like you're just [TS]

  mad [TS]

  or you're sad and you want you and you [TS]

  feel like your arm got locked off and [TS]

  you've lost all sympathy for your [TS]

  partner and so you're going to be made [TS]

  whole and and the divorce takes the [TS]

  takes a path where what could have been [TS]

  I mean it's like the it's like the the [TS]

  partition of Palestine or whatever there [TS]

  was a moment when arafat could have [TS]

  signed the piece of paper and nobody [TS]

  would have been happy but there was [TS]

  there was a solution their bill clinton [TS]

  was standing there with his fucking hat [TS]

  full of milk and it was like we all [TS]

  agreed [TS]

  here it is here's the plan we all agreed [TS]

  on this we've been working on this for [TS]

  decades [TS]

  this is it here it is this is the moment [TS]

  and Arafat was like but if I do that I [TS]

  won't be popular with the you-know-what [TS]

  the with my little gang and so nope i'm [TS]

  not going to do it and then it was like [TS]

  that was the one chance in history and [TS]

  and you blew it because you wanted to be [TS]

  made whole in a way that you couldn't be [TS]

  made whole [TS]

  there was never a way to actually work [TS]

  for peace as peaceful solution here and [TS]

  also for everyone to get what they want [TS]

  and particularly for you to be made [TS]

  whole naked network nobody getting yeah [TS]

  and and I think about all the divorces [TS]

  that happen where it's like you're right [TS]

  there you both acknowledged like this is [TS]

  it were done like you get the car i get [TS]

  the boat who hears our visitation here's [TS]

  like the you know here's how it all [TS]

  splits up but you want me to say that I [TS]

  was wrong or you want or I'm not going [TS]

  to leave here until you shake my hand or [TS]

  continuous festivus and it's time for [TS]

  the airing of grievances here's all the [TS]

  things that I have been storing up and [TS]

  tolerating for years and i wanted i want [TS]

  to give you this excel spreadsheet of [TS]

  emotional brokenness then I want to go [TS]

  through each item and explain it and [TS]

  apologize and pay me for it right and [TS]

  entering into the court record and at [TS]

  that point what could have been a like [TS]

  largely amicable solution to what is a [TS]

  fairly normal [TS]

  problem of two people splitting up goes [TS]

  into a thing where it will it can never [TS]

  be repaired and it was over nothing [TS]

  it was over something symbolic or some [TS]

  desire to be made to to have a thing [TS]

  that cannot be redressed be made right [TS]

  and in in a and I try to I try to see in [TS]

  every conflict now and particularly you [TS]

  know since I'm since i'm now receiving [TS]

  treatment for mental illness and say [TS]

  like is there a way to be made right [TS]

  here [TS]

  no because time has passed i can never [TS]

  be made young again [TS]

  look we're putting a band-aid on a wound [TS]

  that healed or scarred years ago [TS]

  yeah like no I no amount of neosporin is [TS]

  going to fix that wound i was at a i was [TS]

  at a music commission meeting the other [TS]

  day and one of the one of the magazine's [TS]

  here in town that the weeklies wrote an [TS]

  article about the music Commission and [TS]

  that article made the music Commission [TS]

  visible for the first time to people in [TS]

  the larger community were like oh [TS]

  there's music Commission and so we had a [TS]

  commission meeting in our in City Hall [TS]

  where we sit around and the chairman has [TS]

  a gavel and people give us power point [TS]

  demonstrations and we sit at a big table [TS]

  with nameplates out in front of it and [TS]

  all of a sudden there were all these [TS]

  people in the room and it was like and [TS]

  every time we have a meeting it's like [TS]

  all right well we'd like to open it up [TS]

  for public comment and periodically [TS]

  somebody gets up and says hey I you know [TS]

  I just I work for real networks and I [TS]

  just thought I'd come and see the [TS]

  meeting thanks for having me [TS]

  they sit down and you have great alright [TS]

  anyway like who approves the meetings [TS]

  are you know let's improve the the notes [TS]

  from the last meeting or whatever i [TS]

  don't hardly page but this time the [TS]

  Chairman was like uh let's open it up to [TS]

  public comments and several people got [TS]

  up who were members of a protected class [TS]

  here in Seattle which are the people who [TS]

  get up at public meetings and ramp about [TS]

  their problem with the quick with the [TS]

  city you know they're probably the city [TS]

  and so there were [TS]

  several people who gave little speeches [TS]

  but two of them gave and they worked in [TS]

  concert with one another they were like [TS]

  a little a team one got up and gave a [TS]

  15-minute long speech where she [TS]

  excoriated the music commission for [TS]

  things that we can do nothing about and [TS]

  then her friend followed up and both [TS]

  very emotional long presentations about [TS]

  how it was all our fault about something [TS]

  and they haven't even been aware there [TS]

  was music commission until that this [TS]

  article came out the week before so [TS]

  we're sitting there just like when it's [TS]

  very emotional like whoa this is really [TS]

  heavy and it's emotional in a way that [TS]

  the Chairman feels like I don't want to [TS]

  interrupt because this seems very [TS]

  cathartic for you or like maybe this is [TS]

  stuff we all need to hear this type of [TS]

  thing and at one point one of the women [TS]

  said in the in the height of her fury [TS]

  about palvin justices she said you know [TS]

  and now i'm standing here and you know [TS]

  and now i'm standing here leaning on a [TS]

  cane [TS]

  I used to be young and it was like whoa [TS]

  I don't think the music Commission has [TS]

  the power to see really buried the lead [TS]

  with that one ya like I don't think we [TS]

  can address that God that you used to be [TS]

  young but you know this is the public [TS]

  comment period now I don't resent the [TS]

  word look pretty it up as they're all [TS]

  these e-mails back and forth from music [TS]

  commissioners like all apologizing to [TS]

  each other because no one knew what to [TS]

  do and it was like hey you know you you [TS]

  know what nobody knew what to do in [TS]

  there don't its you don't have to [TS]

  apologize it's a it's it's a good that's [TS]

  a while I'm did you guys decide to take [TS]

  any action as a result I i moved that we [TS]

  make her young again but I didn't get a [TS]

  second there was just a long comfortable [TS]

  silence [TS]

  it's so painful [TS]