338: All About Evey
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the incomparable
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number 330 a pastor larry 27 welcome
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back everybody to the uncomfortable i'm
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your host Jason Steele we're here to
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talk about v for vendetta
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this is a comic from the eighties by
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Alan Moore and David Lloyd over many
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years in the eighties it was actually
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like a few of the album or earlier more
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projects sort of stopped and then had to
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be restarted a few years later and they
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were unpublished issues but the beauty
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of it is in the end they collected it is
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it as a giant trade paperback that has
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the whole thing in it and so if you have
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been if you read it at any point after
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the late eighties you've probably read
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it in book form which is well I think
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the best way to read and we are you know
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we'll talk about that maybe a little bit
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for those who on the panel who who read
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it and we'll also talk about the film
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which is a much more accessible in many
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ways from 2005 directed by james
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McTeague who is a longtime collaborator
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of the Wachowskis they didn't direct it
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because they had James matete do it but
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they did write it and produce it so
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there's a lot of which house key in be
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for vendetta as well of course the movie
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stars natalie portman and hugo weaving
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in a very interesting performance in so
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many ways like trivia question
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interesting as well as I think good let
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me introduce my panelists we're going to
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talk about the data with me because
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that's something i should probably do
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laughing there why not have her go first
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with Briana well hello hey what's up by
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jason still you know not much not much
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going on the current events kind of
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quiet yeah yeah so I thought you just
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dip into the past into the mid-2004 a
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movie pic ships others also here hi chip
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hi there this was the most unexpected
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use of the benny hill music I ever haha
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i have comments about that scene a
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little bit but we'll get to brian
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hamilton is also here hi Brian tell me
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Jason do you like music uh yeah sure
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boom explosion guy English is here it's
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been a little while high guy welcome
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hey it's really nice to be here i miss
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we missed you too yeah yeah
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well you know what for three years I had
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Moses and apologize to no one
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alright and fill most lachrymose well I
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didn't know guy was gonna be here but
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I'll still stay anyway cases this is
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strength through unity you got tricked
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we totally got tricked into this
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yeah I I didn't tell anybody guy would
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be here because i wanted i wanted to the
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whole panel to show up so surprised
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so how so how many of you have read the
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comic I'm curious
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oh absolutely yeah i've read it when it
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was first coming out
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wow yeah me too i walked into ides
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comics in pittsburgh and loved the
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artwork and was fascinated by it and
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never read it interesting and Brian's
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can stay here and play listen while
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everyone else talks about the comic
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comic is it is a lot and it's very dense
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it's you know it's really more because
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it started in 80-82 it's fairly early
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its it really reminded me of a lot of
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comics published in England in that
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period that I've read it had at the art
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style really look like that it's it and
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it's super dense and because it was
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published in the eighties the the
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publishing like the color and contrast
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techniques I i was trying to read this
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in a dimly lit room and was literally
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unable to read it i had to get my ID to
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turn on a bright light in order to see
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it because the it is you know it that's
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just the the nature of the publishing
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medium in that in that time especially I
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was originally black and white so on top
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of that they're there colorizing black
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and white art and that's it's a bit of a
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yeah yeah it is step for people who have
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seen the movie what you should know
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about the comic i mean i-i think it's
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good it is super dense it to the point
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where i was reading a couple of articles
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about how they felt like you know it's
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what exactly what you'd expect which is
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a look at allen more comic adaptation
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first off he took his name off the movie
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because he takes his name off every
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every movie but a lot of people will be
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like oh well you know it's it's the
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movie is so simplified compared to the
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comic and it's true the comic is so the
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comic is so dense so much happens in the
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comic that the streamlining they had to
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do a tremendous amount of streamlining
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for the movie but you know that there
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the shape of it and specific memorable
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scenes in it are reflected in in the
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movie as well I came to the movie first
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and went back and read the comics yeah I
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i did the same thing in the comic yeah I
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i see the brilliance there but it's like
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an eel students and you know novel in
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the sense it's so big and it's so dense
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it so would like benefit from editing
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it's just a hot mess right out
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I think it's worth remembering that at
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the time comics were directed and alan
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moore almost single-handedly Alan what a
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bunch of other British people from
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Thatcher's England sort of recreate the
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art form in a lot of ways everything we
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know about that man now came out of that
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basically when you can see the
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techniques that are used to use for
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years later and watch men at work at you
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which is better like heat you know he
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learned any girl and yeah it's dense yes
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yes certainly going back to try to beat
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it is is hard i personally love the
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movie I didn't really like the watch
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movie which is a comic book nerds are
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gonna take my card guys touching the
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third well no I i'm with you guys i'm
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with you i like it and you know what
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Alan Moore loves the medium of comic
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books he loves it and he is an artist in
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that medium and what he's good at is
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leveraging that so when you take that
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work and you put in a different medium
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by necessity you must omit various
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aspects of it and i think particularly
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this movie but even watch me too but
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particularly this movie is very strong
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film based off of that the same ideas
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and and the root the root of the story
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that he was trying to tell them beefing
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data and this was one of the craziest
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for in the way of comic book movies that
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was adapted for the for film that was
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way different than anything anybody had
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seen like I mean hugo weaving is i mean
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we're talking obviously about this but
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like the fact that he has a mask on for
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the entire film is literally unheard of
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i am hosting this entire show wearing a
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mask and you can only hear my voice you
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can see my face at all just throwing it
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out there beautiful
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yeah no it'sit's it's amazing will get
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there i was going to say something about
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the way the story is told that you know
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it has this meandering history it was a
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comic in a in a larger collection which
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is something that happened in the UK
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where they be a magazine that would have
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different stories in it and warrior
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magazine yes so you get the i want to
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say it's almost de ken zijn in the sense
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that these AR installments and I think
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you know the way I think more had an
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endgame in mind but one of the reasons
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that you have to do some work when you
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turn this into a movie is because the
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comic is episodic it is stretched out it
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can meander it can go in lots of
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different twists and turns and take a
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long time because not only is it like
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any comic an issue by issue sort of
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thing it wasn't done as a novel but in
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addition to that it was done in small
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installments inside another magazine and
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then it got a delay and then it got you
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know published years later some of those
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things got so it ended up being a very
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stretched out narrative I'm sure when
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most says you know it you could be i
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think was most maybe was guide when you
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say almost like a rough draft and it
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could be tightened I mean that's the
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problem of writing in installments is
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you don't get to go back and make
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changes so it is sprawling and
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meandering in a way that that that a
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movie you would never choose if you
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could do a rewrite of the whole thing
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when you were done but comics at work
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like that not only installments but it
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also just it brackets it brackets
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watchman the first two parts of the book
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were written between in the early
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eighties not booked and released like 80
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to 85 and then I believe warrior folded
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so look the the comic is divided into 3
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into 3 books and the first two made it
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into warrior then the story just stops
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more makes a name for himself at DC with
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Swamp Thing and other stuff watch men
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becomes a thing and DC gives more the
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opportunity to finish v for vendetta
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with the third book which was written so
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much later so it's not just episodic but
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it's it's it's it's it's free
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admitted at least in terms of the
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morning he had to get back into his head
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space to write the thing
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yeah I came in for the third book i was
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working at the comic store at the time
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and when that came out and it was like
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mind-blowing for everybody but it's like
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in in some ways it's like tell me the
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story spider-man and Jason know your big
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fan so you can tell me the story
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spider-man there's no story of
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spider-man need like he's moscato ours
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gets his powers any you know is uncle
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dies and now he's you know great power
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great responsibility
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go like there's no there's no artoo it's
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unlike watchman which is a fully plucked
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out very carefully plotted out from
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beginning to end
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also the character of EV is just not
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really the same you know like this this
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comic book is very much a product of the
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the eighties right and it's clearly up
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that that low level 80 sexism image in
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spite of every single tournament that
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it's every single bad trope like it's
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your rape being used to like good just
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as to come titillate the the reader and
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you know a shortcut for character
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development is just she's not as good a
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character at all and I think it really
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speaks to you about the witch house case
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ability to write a more interesting
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character there and natalie portman's
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ability to play it actually agreed the
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killing joke suffers from the same thing
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yeah but so much of that DNA from the
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comic does make it into the movie
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because it is following the bones of the
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plot so some of the things that I found
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really problematic in the comic about EV
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despite Natalie perform important
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performance and despite you know some
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refinements along the way it's still can
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i use the word squeaky i'm going to use
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the words which is what we watching a
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movie tonight he doesn't he could
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frankly just be a figment of her
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imagination for particularly because
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those actions that he takes it to have
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impact on the world but effectively he's
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the inspiration for her changing my
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nanny is the inspiration and the agent
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of change for everybody that's whether
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all standing outside the building in
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and it blows up sure he sent to train
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but ultimately bit blows up because the
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the people right accepted his message
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and showed up on mass to to protest it
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and we see that story too easy
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transition from being sort of you know
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almost a functionary of the machine to
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completely rejecting it anyway I'd I
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think that's why we don't see his face
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basically he's an idea not not a man so
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let's talk about v in the film Hugo
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Weaving yeah plays this i believe they
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shot for a week or two with a different
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actor and then and then that they
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replace that actor and Hugo Weaving came
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in and so there may be a few shots in
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this movie where where he is it's not
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Hugo Weaving but i believe in large part
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he's there and he's acting and then
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presumably they looked his dialogue but
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it's still it's him and it's quite a
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oh you know I think I think it's a great
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vocal performance and a great physical
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performance and such as a dangerous
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decision to have I mean in the in the
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comic every panel everybody's face is
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frozen in a comic right i mean get away
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with it but in a movie to do that and I
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i think it's a bold decision and I think
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it really works because of the
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physicality and because of the voice
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that it is but he you know the fact is
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we doesn't have a name he's just V we we
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learned that that although he likes
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alliteration because you know he's got
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that whole speech with all ever like
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every word that starts with v is in that
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speech he's room 5 from the testing
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facility where he was kind of created
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recreated and you know he doesn't have a
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name and we never see his face and and
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guys right he you you could view him as
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being and he I think maybe infuse
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himself as the embodiment of an idea
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more than a person he's most akin to me
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as the Joker in the Dark Knight i am
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reading the comics so I don't know what
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any of the Joker's established backstory
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is but to me in the dark knight the
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joker is just a symbol of chaos
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wonderfully performed by Keith ledger in
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the same way hugo weaving is simply an
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idea man behind the mask is not as much
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of him but he's the idea they hammer
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in the movie a lot and the fact that you
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know going back to the fact that he's in
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a mask the whole time in a comic you do
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have the separate drawings and words and
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in the movie you have both his vocal
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performance and his physical performance
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it's not a David Prowse james earl jones
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situation it is hugo weaving through and
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through and that shines through in his
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performance to make it more coherent but
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I'm glad you got a better because i was
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gonna say that he's probably the other
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example of a character that everybody
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kind of ya reads and understands right
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that it had does epistatic mask
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it's interesting that we're talking
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about the character as an idea in this
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movie compared to the idea in the book
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up the book really leans into like
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anarchism yes LOL the whole point of the
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whole point of the graphic novel is alan
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►
moore pretty much defending anarchism as
[TS]
◼
►
a philosophy v is right up there you
[TS]
◼
►
know he wants to get everybody to the
[TS]
◼
►
land of do as you please and and but
[TS]
◼
►
before that there's going to be a period
[TS]
◼
►
of K chaos that he calls the land of
[TS]
◼
►
take what you want but he says that you
[TS]
◼
►
gotta get if you're going to deal with
[TS]
◼
►
authoritarianism and totalitarianism
[TS]
◼
►
you're going to have the chaos before
[TS]
◼
►
you get to this philosophy of everybody
[TS]
◼
►
taking personal responsibility and
[TS]
◼
►
everybody who making collective order
[TS]
◼
►
and something like that
[TS]
◼
►
not a whole lot of that comes through in
[TS]
◼
►
the movie he's more of a generic agent
[TS]
◼
►
of chaos slash freedom fighter then you
[TS]
◼
►
know there's not a whole lot of
[TS]
◼
►
anarchists philosophy into this movie
[TS]
◼
►
and what I think that's what Alan Moore
[TS]
◼
►
had a problem with because you know you
[TS]
◼
►
know not everybody accepts that real
[TS]
◼
►
well no one really accept this movie
[TS]
◼
►
when it came out if your recall it was
[TS]
◼
►
kind of and bye-bye reviews severely and
[TS]
◼
►
you know so but you you come out
[TS]
◼
►
straight up with an with anarchists
[TS]
◼
►
cookbook on film
[TS]
◼
►
no no no what no one's no one's gonna go
[TS]
◼
►
for that real well
[TS]
◼
►
well I mean so this is the early
[TS]
◼
►
eighties in Thatcher's UK this is the
[TS]
◼
►
beginning of the punk movement this is
[TS]
◼
►
akin and it is certainly part of the
[TS]
◼
►
family of that entire movement
[TS]
◼
►
I mean that's where we get the anarchy
[TS]
◼
►
symbol firm which is it's no mistake to
[TS]
◼
►
be simply yellow like the animals real
[TS]
◼
►
because they're down obvious
[TS]
◼
►
yeah exactly an obvious shadow is that
[TS]
◼
►
is relevant when the audience when they
[TS]
◼
►
no I don't think so but I think they
[TS]
◼
►
took what was development for the time
[TS]
◼
►
and they the jigger the politics behind
[TS]
◼
►
a little bit in order to tell his story
[TS]
◼
►
that would land the same points but
[TS]
◼
►
would be more relevant for the time
[TS]
◼
►
CII have to give a little bit push back
[TS]
◼
►
on that I think I it's very clear that
[TS]
◼
►
Elmore's interpretation be was
[TS]
◼
►
definitely you know in his anarchist
[TS]
◼
►
libertarian view point i think the
[TS]
◼
►
beauty of the film in the the book like
[TS]
◼
►
the physical book that went along with
[TS]
◼
►
the film is it really you know this
[TS]
◼
►
isn't written by you know a white guy
[TS]
◼
►
it's a much much deeper perspective
[TS]
◼
►
about you know societies that oppressed
[TS]
◼
►
people and I think it's much deeper
[TS]
◼
►
because of that V the reading of him in
[TS]
◼
►
the movie is so much deeper he's not
[TS]
◼
►
like a a joker agent of chaos there's a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of duality there if he's a villain a
[TS]
◼
►
terrorist our hero and you can look at
[TS]
◼
►
this film and see it completely
[TS]
◼
►
legitimately both ways he tortures EV he
[TS]
◼
►
water board's her he you know he there's
[TS]
◼
►
a scene where he talks about he's a
[TS]
◼
►
monster and he's been broken by the
[TS]
◼
►
things have happened to him to do one
[TS]
◼
►
good thing he does in the movie is that
[TS]
◼
►
TV make the decision to do the train
[TS]
◼
►
down exactly it's why this movie really
[TS]
◼
►
appeals to me i mean i think most people
[TS]
◼
►
that know me in my real life no you know
[TS]
◼
►
i am someone else out there every day
[TS]
◼
►
working for change i think people to get
[TS]
◼
►
that invested in it there's an anger
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes it kind of drives you with
[TS]
◼
►
that about the things have been done to
[TS]
◼
►
you along the way to make you feel so
[TS]
◼
►
strongly about that
[TS]
◼
►
so when I see be wrestling with that
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's real to me and yeah I also say
[TS]
◼
►
I realized there were some critics that
[TS]
◼
►
didn't like this movie when it came out
[TS]
◼
►
to me this came out at the height of the
[TS]
◼
►
administration in the middle of the Iraq
[TS]
◼
►
war and I remember everybody and
[TS]
◼
►
outgoing seeing it like four times in
[TS]
◼
►
the theater and people loving so you
[TS]
◼
►
know that was mine I think you could
[TS]
◼
►
really make the argument that V in the
[TS]
◼
►
in the movie is very specifically
[TS]
◼
►
pushing back against an oppressive
[TS]
◼
►
government and V in the book is pushing
[TS]
◼
►
back against society the system
[TS]
◼
►
everything right he's a is an anarchist
[TS]
◼
►
he he wants to push back on anything and
[TS]
◼
►
the VA and the film is more targeted
[TS]
◼
►
because there is you know that there is
[TS]
◼
►
this the fascist regime in Britain that
[TS]
◼
►
he is he is specifically pushing back
[TS]
◼
►
against which I do think is also part of
[TS]
◼
►
yes being a mid-2000 film that night's
[TS]
◼
►
the politics that they were most that
[TS]
◼
►
was closest to them and therefore they
[TS]
◼
►
were most concerned by and also he's
[TS]
◼
►
pushing against the V is pushing against
[TS]
◼
►
two different kinds of fascism or or or
[TS]
◼
►
two different characterizations of
[TS]
◼
►
authoritarianism in the book of the film
[TS]
◼
►
in the book you don't have John Hurt
[TS]
◼
►
staring at you screaming from a
[TS]
◼
►
viewscreen but you just it's totally
[TS]
◼
►
personal in the film in a way that the
[TS]
◼
►
book is not it's more but it's more of a
[TS]
◼
►
clash of ideas kind of thing the the
[TS]
◼
►
leader Adam Susan in the book is much
[TS]
◼
►
more passive then the then Adam sutler
[TS]
◼
►
is in the movie and I think I happy that
[TS]
◼
►
I think that influences that influences
[TS]
◼
►
how he is played in the book and film
[TS]
◼
►
the reactionary elements to it like what
[TS]
◼
►
how they are characterizing the
[TS]
◼
►
quote-unquote enemy that the state
[TS]
◼
►
effectively it depends on the government
[TS]
◼
►
under which the book or the movie are
[TS]
◼
►
being written at the time and I think
[TS]
◼
►
that in the eighties it characterized so
[TS]
◼
►
reflected like Thatcherism and and
[TS]
◼
►
mechanism at and I think of his reaction
[TS]
◼
►
to that and in the two thousands we had
[TS]
◼
►
a bit of a different setup right little
[TS]
◼
►
it was a different circumstance and
[TS]
◼
►
certainly the plate pretty loud and
[TS]
◼
►
clear about like taking people away for
[TS]
◼
►
yeah right well but we also
[TS]
◼
►
understood what was to be galvanized by
[TS]
◼
►
certain events that happened and then we
[TS]
◼
►
were all right go go let's get them
[TS]
◼
►
let's get them kill kill kill
[TS]
◼
►
yeah right and so it right you know
[TS]
◼
►
there's this is the this is the pretext
[TS]
◼
►
the you know if you go back to the
[TS]
◼
►
Reichstag fire right it's the pretext
[TS]
◼
►
that allows the movement that allows the
[TS]
◼
►
government to become completely
[TS]
◼
►
authoritarian and in this case it's the
[TS]
◼
►
u.s. having a plague and a nuclear war
[TS]
◼
►
and being you know falling apart and
[TS]
◼
►
then we also discovered there have been
[TS]
◼
►
a couple attacks on British soil and
[TS]
◼
►
that all leads to this complete takeover
[TS]
◼
►
by the fascist government in in Britain
[TS]
◼
►
so we so we think that's the official
[TS]
◼
►
party line right but that's not actually
[TS]
◼
►
be find out we find out they cut it was
[TS]
◼
►
an inside job Bryce yeah right and the
[TS]
◼
►
one scene where you where you can see
[TS]
◼
►
bits of hugo weaving face it gives me it
[TS]
◼
►
gives me pause of those scenes because
[TS]
◼
►
we have we saw post 911 right that that
[TS]
◼
►
one of the great conspiracy theories was
[TS]
◼
►
it's an inside job it was all set up it
[TS]
◼
►
was all pretext and you know in v for
[TS]
◼
►
vendetta that's exactly what it is and
[TS]
◼
►
that that I makes me makes me pause
[TS]
◼
►
because that sign that kind of way of
[TS]
◼
►
thinking led to people down kind of
[TS]
◼
►
wacky fantasy rabbit hole and conducted
[TS]
◼
►
very introduction and here it's in the
[TS]
◼
►
in the plot i want to ask about John
[TS]
◼
►
Hurt I think the user john hurt here is
[TS]
◼
►
fascinating first column John Hurt
[TS]
◼
►
whoo-hoo as we record this just passed
[TS]
◼
►
great actor what's interesting here is
[TS]
◼
►
so he was Winston Smith in the movie
[TS]
◼
►
1984 and it is i think no mistake about
[TS]
◼
►
how he's deployed here a little not only
[TS]
◼
►
using the character guy who was in
[TS]
◼
►
nineteen eighty-four but by having him
[TS]
◼
►
not be a person until the like last
[TS]
◼
►
scene but a face on a screen huge screen
[TS]
◼
►
I mean they really make him into big
[TS]
◼
►
brother that is that is absolutely the
[TS]
◼
►
intent is to make a sutler a big brother
[TS]
◼
►
figure and having a page on her who was
[TS]
◼
►
in nineteen eighty-four is icing on the
[TS]
◼
►
cake there it's hard to believe he was
[TS]
◼
►
when his big brother I guess he learned
[TS]
◼
►
to love himself i I don't know something
[TS]
◼
►
like that hurt is is he's great he's
[TS]
◼
►
kind of frosting when he needs to and
[TS]
◼
►
shouting when he needs to but he's up
[TS]
◼
►
there on the screen i want to mention
[TS]
◼
►
that one of the most fascinating uses
[TS]
◼
►
have hurt in this entire thing is in the
[TS]
◼
►
comedy sketch on stephen Fry's suddenly
[TS]
◼
►
subversive comedy show that's the one
[TS]
◼
►
with the benny hill music with yakety
[TS]
◼
►
sax playing in the background they have
[TS]
◼
►
a they have a sutler impersonator that
[TS]
◼
►
they're doing this comedy sketch around
[TS]
◼
►
and the movie just uses John her to be
[TS]
◼
►
that guy which I think it's so amazing
[TS]
◼
►
it's like it's just john heard with like
[TS]
◼
►
darker facial hair and stuff but I like
[TS]
◼
►
pancake wife like ask somebody to look
[TS]
◼
►
like John heard in a comedy sketch when
[TS]
◼
►
you can just have John Hurt bv excellent
[TS]
◼
►
impersonation of Joan Harris one of the
[TS]
◼
►
reasons i love this movie is that and
[TS]
◼
►
and one of the reasons i was considering
[TS]
◼
►
be as a good imaginary figment we see a
[TS]
◼
►
scene where a young girl who's been
[TS]
◼
►
spray-painting like she's been following
[TS]
◼
►
the v story since the beginning like in
[TS]
◼
►
like the second scene but he's being
[TS]
◼
►
seen spray-painting the TV logo we see
[TS]
◼
►
her get shot and then we see her in the
[TS]
◼
►
yes as they all take off their masks and
[TS]
◼
►
there's people that we know to be dead
[TS]
◼
►
yes open love held non-literal the movie
[TS]
◼
►
is and that's why i love the idea that's
[TS]
◼
►
like this is this is conceptual there's
[TS]
◼
►
there's a lot of reality to the fellow
[TS]
◼
►
right like alive to the camera shots
[TS]
◼
►
that they deliberately have day they
[TS]
◼
►
make a real point to pull the camera
[TS]
◼
►
back and have these slow shots around
[TS]
◼
►
people's faces to just show the reacting
[TS]
◼
►
to it and the way the movie is i edited
[TS]
◼
►
in a nonlinear way we're just is
[TS]
◼
►
constantly bringing back these themes
[TS]
◼
►
from the past like running through the
[TS]
◼
►
series of events it is very much
[TS]
◼
►
constructed to be a very surreal i think
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's what makes this very different
[TS]
◼
►
than any other which house key project
[TS]
◼
►
right like it'sit's um it's like a dream
[TS]
◼
►
it really is i find it's I mean out of
[TS]
◼
►
all this stuff done this this is way up
[TS]
◼
►
there like why is Vee sitting up all
[TS]
◼
►
is dominos not amazing but it looks
[TS]
◼
►
awesome though so he does it had access
[TS]
◼
►
your time to make his low yeah and
[TS]
◼
►
Domino yeah yer yeah it doesn't matter
[TS]
◼
►
it looks awesome
[TS]
◼
►
you don't question it nice work and has
[TS]
◼
►
one left standing which oh yeah I've got
[TS]
◼
►
to go let Eevee like decided to let the
[TS]
◼
►
train go not its is this like one of the
[TS]
◼
►
best lines of movie is it artists use
[TS]
◼
►
lies to tell the truth
[TS]
◼
►
this movie is a slice don't do it and
[TS]
◼
►
and it's very aware of it i think the
[TS]
◼
►
comic book did the same thing and I i
[TS]
◼
►
really respect it's it's constructed
[TS]
◼
►
incredibly well way so a much lesser
[TS]
◼
►
movie would show those faces in the
[TS]
◼
►
crowd at the end and juxtapose them like
[TS]
◼
►
with a black-and-white shot of their
[TS]
◼
►
appearance previously you make you
[TS]
◼
►
wonder like what you can remember this
[TS]
◼
►
like this movie doesn't even want out
[TS]
◼
►
like i don't think it even cares if you
[TS]
◼
►
realize that those people are I think
[TS]
◼
►
it's just bonus points if you do if you
[TS]
◼
►
see you see the girl there you see a
[TS]
◼
►
gallery there right yeah yeah we see
[TS]
◼
►
Stephen Fry you see Stephen Fry there
[TS]
◼
►
exactly right that these people we know
[TS]
◼
►
to be dead but they're uh they're in the
[TS]
◼
►
crowd at the at the end and i like that
[TS]
◼
►
i really like how Valerie is treated
[TS]
◼
►
throughout the film because one of the
[TS]
◼
►
things that we see is the first time we
[TS]
◼
►
it's in a flashback from the the test
[TS]
◼
►
grounds at Larkhill where be like
[TS]
◼
►
experimented on right and we see her
[TS]
◼
►
just as a random victim contestants
[TS]
◼
►
oh yeah we see her alive in a line and
[TS]
◼
►
then we see her dead in the pit and then
[TS]
◼
►
we get her flash back later and then we
[TS]
◼
►
also see her face at the end and it's
[TS]
◼
►
haunting because you know the movie is
[TS]
◼
►
not trying to tell us anything literally
[TS]
◼
►
at the end I feel like I feel like
[TS]
◼
►
that's just a reminder of these are the
[TS]
◼
►
you know these are also people and you
[TS]
◼
►
judge it they're not ghosts they're not
[TS]
◼
►
you know they're not anything they are
[TS]
◼
►
the people who are triumphing their part
[TS]
◼
►
of the group of people who are now
[TS]
◼
►
over this this terrible regime that's
[TS]
◼
►
all I i think it's it's a real call to
[TS]
◼
►
action at the end I think it's something
[TS]
◼
►
we should all do very well to remember
[TS]
◼
►
today like it goes for people that gave
[TS]
◼
►
their lives to get to that point it's
[TS]
◼
►
showing these are all people that stood
[TS]
◼
►
up that did what they could some played
[TS]
◼
►
small part some point very large parts
[TS]
◼
►
but it's all part of what led to this
[TS]
◼
►
and I think that is the the extremely
[TS]
◼
►
moving message at the end of it and
[TS]
◼
►
Jason I have to say it's like we
[TS]
◼
►
mentioned Valerie that whole subplot I
[TS]
◼
►
cannot watch it right now just breaking
[TS]
◼
►
down like I tried tonight I tried
[TS]
◼
►
watching you tonight and the quote they
[TS]
◼
►
say the beginning the shoulders from
[TS]
◼
►
that you know roses for three years and
[TS]
◼
►
Apollo is no one like you to fellate
[TS]
◼
►
what a beautiful scent and structurally
[TS]
◼
►
I mean not only is it amazingly
[TS]
◼
►
beautiful but structurally and it like
[TS]
◼
►
this in the comic to write but you could
[TS]
◼
►
do it in a comic I feel like butt in a
[TS]
◼
►
in a a motion picture with a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
action and a huge budget right the movie
[TS]
◼
►
stops to tell her story it's like a
[TS]
◼
►
little anthology short story inside this
[TS]
◼
►
other movie and you know it's
[TS]
◼
►
interleaved a little bit where he is is
[TS]
◼
►
being processed and tortured and and
[TS]
◼
►
then going back to her cell and reading
[TS]
◼
►
a little bit more so they try to but but
[TS]
◼
►
essentially that segment of the movie is
[TS]
◼
►
about Valerie's story that's what it's
[TS]
◼
►
about 90 right in the middle of the
[TS]
◼
►
yeah right dead center if it weren't for
[TS]
◼
►
that segment of the movie i would
[TS]
◼
►
consider this movie irredeemable oh ok
[TS]
◼
►
irredeemable because i have some I have
[TS]
◼
►
real problems in both the comic and the
[TS]
◼
►
movie i have real problems with what V
[TS]
◼
►
oh god yeah oh yes mmm I grout queer
[TS]
◼
►
Mississippi right like it's that's
[TS]
◼
►
playing on hard but right it's stuck
[TS]
◼
►
you know the the whole scene with
[TS]
◼
►
Valerie where she is you know these are
[TS]
◼
►
the fears that every single queer person
[TS]
◼
►
you know all the real Jew house on a
[TS]
◼
►
very very deep level and it is so
[TS]
◼
►
movingly done and I just I cannot watch
[TS]
◼
►
this entire scene without just breaking
[TS]
◼
►
down dirty crying
[TS]
◼
►
like I was on a plane at last time I saw
[TS]
◼
►
this like I'm in first class and just
[TS]
◼
►
weeping everybody's there staring at me
[TS]
◼
►
because it's so emotionally done so i
[TS]
◼
►
just don't I know I I I feel like
[TS]
◼
►
there's so much wider meaning there in
[TS]
◼
►
her death and you know the fact that
[TS]
◼
►
dies given to natalie portman then push
[TS]
◼
►
her on to the next level I just think
[TS]
◼
►
it's brilliantly done and it's really
[TS]
◼
►
important that it is a real story it is
[TS]
◼
►
the real story that right v received in
[TS]
◼
►
his cell that he didn't just manufacture
[TS]
◼
►
it for v's benefit that's also vitally
[TS]
◼
►
important I don't know if that matters
[TS]
◼
►
and i think that's part of it in the
[TS]
◼
►
middle of story is that he does tell EV
[TS]
◼
►
first of all these names are pretty much
[TS]
◼
►
dead giveaway that like none of this is
[TS]
◼
►
vite lzv the valerie no was was real and
[TS]
◼
►
destroy Israel and it wasn't fabricated
[TS]
◼
►
but doesn't matter that like all I'm
[TS]
◼
►
thinking is to tell it using using light
[TS]
◼
►
has to tell the truth is literally a
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but if it wasn't true that really i
[TS]
◼
►
think that would have sunk us visually
[TS]
◼
►
and this day the testing open to the um
[TS]
◼
►
I am I am open to the idea that v is
[TS]
◼
►
Valley and that she didn't die in person
[TS]
◼
►
and it she went on to become v well
[TS]
◼
►
either either way that I mean the
[TS]
◼
►
argument of a lark hill is that I feel
[TS]
◼
►
like as much as V is a I mean he's many
[TS]
◼
►
things here if he is a revolutionary the
[TS]
◼
►
is a victim v is a superhero kind of
[TS]
◼
►
because he basically gets powers
[TS]
◼
►
I mean there is Alan Moore is absolutely
[TS]
◼
►
commenting on some of the and using some
[TS]
◼
►
of the tropes of superheroes in this not
[TS]
◼
►
superhero comic that way but one thing v
[TS]
◼
►
is also is V is the only survivor of a
[TS]
◼
►
program that killed everybody else and
[TS]
◼
►
he wears his guilt of being the only
[TS]
◼
►
survivor and his responsibility for
[TS]
◼
►
everyone who didn't survive as the
[TS]
◼
►
person who speaks for them whether he's
[TS]
◼
►
representing Valerie or not he you know
[TS]
◼
►
it mean he he he could be Valerie or you
[TS]
◼
►
cannot be Valerie guy based on your
[TS]
◼
►
theory but it doesn't matter because he
[TS]
◼
►
represents her I think he stopped being
[TS]
◼
►
a person and he started being V and yeah
[TS]
◼
►
he admit as much yeah yeah yeah he does
[TS]
◼
►
yeah the the valerie segment is is is
[TS]
◼
►
fantastic think about also when we see
[TS]
◼
►
Eevee reading the story and in the film
[TS]
◼
►
we think the chain goes Valerie to EV
[TS]
◼
►
that Valerie is inspiring EV perhaps to
[TS]
◼
►
do something you know it better and make
[TS]
◼
►
that decision what we learned later is
[TS]
◼
►
that the chain actually goes from
[TS]
◼
►
Valerie 2v2 EV because my galleries
[TS]
◼
►
letter inspired v he's the one who was
[TS]
◼
►
first inspired by it so that changes
[TS]
◼
►
longer she and he's replaying it for her
[TS]
◼
►
because he basically wants to make her
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah in all the parallels of V + DV
[TS]
◼
►
name aside that is my favorite moment
[TS]
◼
►
because a valerie comes in at the most
[TS]
◼
►
bleak moment in the movie interleaf so
[TS]
◼
►
perfectly to give a little bit of levity
[TS]
◼
►
and beauty in the middle of this
[TS]
◼
►
extremely dark bleak terrible torture
[TS]
◼
►
scene and they they try that in watching
[TS]
◼
►
the details the black freighter it
[TS]
◼
►
failed miserably but it works really
[TS]
◼
►
well here and then I i have so many
[TS]
◼
►
problems with EV and v's relationship
[TS]
◼
►
but where the parallels between the two
[TS]
◼
►
of them and the moment when he goes
[TS]
◼
►
outside and finally evolved into a
[TS]
◼
►
Vaporeon in the rain that woman to come
[TS]
◼
►
back and forth with love the
[TS]
◼
►
uncomfortable that very very blatantly
[TS]
◼
►
obvious moment come back and forth with
[TS]
◼
►
the rising from the flames gives the EV
[TS]
◼
►
something that she didn't have before
[TS]
◼
►
but I don't think it comes to as full of
[TS]
◼
►
a point as these artists at the end of
[TS]
◼
►
movie they have been completely
[TS]
◼
►
different arcs and I've problem with the
[TS]
◼
►
love that she has for him but Evie at
[TS]
◼
►
least has some kind of different art
[TS]
◼
►
based on her rise to power in the rain
[TS]
◼
►
the movie tree TV better than the book
[TS]
◼
►
does oh yeah that's the plan
[TS]
◼
►
the book is it's just
[TS]
◼
►
the book just bothers me so much it is a
[TS]
◼
►
cult programming that the subjects
[TS]
◼
►
trapped and in fact you could argue that
[TS]
◼
►
the way she's introduced in a movie soft
[TS]
◼
►
petals this to it's very much like v
[TS]
◼
►
plucked a teen prostitute off the street
[TS]
◼
►
because she had her life was essentially
[TS]
◼
►
worthless and she wouldn't be missed in
[TS]
◼
►
order to program her to be what he
[TS]
◼
►
wanted her to be mean that is that is
[TS]
◼
►
some of that again is the structures in
[TS]
◼
►
the movie but in the book it's just
[TS]
◼
►
that's what it is right if you look at
[TS]
◼
►
the chow skis were generally speaking
[TS]
◼
►
like you can go into balance and there
[TS]
◼
►
are a few things their rates pretty
[TS]
◼
►
freaking high on the feminist meter oh
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you know they tweaked a few things
[TS]
◼
►
yeah they did turn her from me no
[TS]
◼
►
prostitute with someone that works at a
[TS]
◼
►
TV station absolutely important royal
[TS]
◼
►
you know she has agency all the way all
[TS]
◼
►
the way through so i just feel like this
[TS]
◼
►
is a good point to take a beat and say
[TS]
◼
►
in the goal of feminist critique of
[TS]
◼
►
media isn't saying you can't have things
[TS]
◼
►
happened women that are abysmal like is
[TS]
◼
►
its name saying you can't have rape
[TS]
◼
►
scenes you know it's saying you can't
[TS]
◼
►
think be more conscious about the
[TS]
◼
►
choices that you make and I have no
[TS]
◼
►
problem with anything that happens to
[TS]
◼
►
even in this film even though it is very
[TS]
◼
►
horrible because it's not trying to sell
[TS]
◼
►
v is like a Disney hero he's not this is
[TS]
◼
►
a wildly complicated movie and I i just
[TS]
◼
►
think that that really feeds into right
[TS]
◼
►
now and i'm gonna get a little bit
[TS]
◼
►
political i see people on the Left
[TS]
◼
►
people I respect really bearing system
[TS]
◼
►
some territory talk about violence
[TS]
◼
►
towards people with different political
[TS]
◼
►
views in a way that makes me wildly
[TS]
◼
►
uncomfortable so I think this this
[TS]
◼
►
message at the core of it of the really
[TS]
◼
►
being turned into a monster of e
[TS]
◼
►
becoming someone who goes too far
[TS]
◼
►
I think that's a message that people
[TS]
◼
►
would do very well to hear today
[TS]
◼
►
that's a really good point and also in
[TS]
◼
►
the movie compared to the book the
[TS]
◼
►
Wachowskis give EV so much more agency
[TS]
◼
►
on in the book VIII basically
[TS]
◼
►
brainwashing sir
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and she goes along and keeps doing
[TS]
◼
►
her thing in the movie
[TS]
◼
►
Evie actually leaves that she doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
come back into the end she she has been
[TS]
◼
►
she has been transformed by her
[TS]
◼
►
experience she can take some strength
[TS]
◼
►
from it but it's also something that she
[TS]
◼
►
can't abide at least for now and she
[TS]
◼
►
leaves and she chooses to come back
[TS]
◼
►
later she gets it
[TS]
◼
►
it's a much stronger character i think
[TS]
◼
►
given the fact that we still got the
[TS]
◼
►
bones of the torturing her
[TS]
◼
►
who's the hero of this movie so easy
[TS]
◼
►
even yeah definitely i agree with
[TS]
◼
►
everything you said guy but i still have
[TS]
◼
►
massive problems with the gas lighting
[TS]
◼
►
that V gives her in that know this was
[TS]
◼
►
your choice you're the one that wanted
[TS]
◼
►
to stay because you didn't give up any
[TS]
◼
►
information about me this was you
[TS]
◼
►
well Ivy to be perfectly frank I think
[TS]
◼
►
he's a bad guy didn't guy kills a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
the guy's a terrorist somebody knows
[TS]
◼
►
he's a monster he he doesn't and he
[TS]
◼
►
admits to being that the only good thing
[TS]
◼
►
you did like i said previously is that
[TS]
◼
►
he let Eevee decide whether or not to
[TS]
◼
►
send that train there is a really
[TS]
◼
►
interesting moment where and they it's
[TS]
◼
►
fascinating i I don't know if I noticed
[TS]
◼
►
it before but i really noticed that this
[TS]
◼
►
time v hopes that when he reveals that
[TS]
◼
►
it's him to EV that she will basically
[TS]
◼
►
love him for it and yet it because he
[TS]
◼
►
says he says as she's going through this
[TS]
◼
►
he's like I wonder if you might dance
[TS]
◼
►
with me like he says that he doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
just say it went later when she comes
[TS]
◼
►
back and they dance
[TS]
◼
►
he says that right when she gets out and
[TS]
◼
►
she's she doesn't even respond to it
[TS]
◼
►
she's just like I am getting out of here
[TS]
◼
►
and he's like yeah well that's yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
figured that you might but he but no he
[TS]
◼
►
actually holds out hope that he will
[TS]
◼
►
have like magically transform which i
[TS]
◼
►
think is interesting because it's the
[TS]
◼
►
characters weakness is that he you know
[TS]
◼
►
he believes things that are going to
[TS]
◼
►
come out of what he did that are
[TS]
◼
►
completely unrealistic i think it is the
[TS]
◼
►
thing that redeems this movie I because
[TS]
◼
►
of that because of her reaction the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that she's allowed to leave and go
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere else and take care of herself
[TS]
◼
►
and and just she just steps away and and
[TS]
◼
►
he doesn't help her or anything she
[TS]
◼
►
finds her own way but that said I it
[TS]
◼
►
gives me a little pause only because the
[TS]
◼
►
structure of it is that we're supposed
[TS]
◼
►
to think he's a hero and I know he's not
[TS]
◼
►
around here but like it still gives me
[TS]
◼
►
pause that this character that we've
[TS]
◼
►
kind of been rooting for does this
[TS]
◼
►
terrible thing also just replied
[TS]
◼
►
practical standpoint the way the movie
[TS]
◼
►
is shot all of the scenes where Eevee is
[TS]
◼
►
being captured and tortured and all that
[TS]
◼
►
you can't tell whether those people are
[TS]
◼
►
real or anything like that and and so
[TS]
◼
►
there's that reveal I do kind of have a
[TS]
◼
►
very hard time with those scenes because
[TS]
◼
►
you know those are the shots that we see
[TS]
◼
►
but she's living at the whole time she
[TS]
◼
►
has to be taken from room to room by
[TS]
◼
►
people and sat down and things like that
[TS]
◼
►
and I don't really believe that one guy
[TS]
◼
►
in a various with mannequins and some
[TS]
◼
►
masks could really pull that off is in
[TS]
◼
►
this makes sense because he's chinese
[TS]
◼
►
cutting off your hair and stuff and when
[TS]
◼
►
clearly you know this is this is why I
[TS]
◼
►
think he's more of an idea i think she's
[TS]
◼
►
tortured by the idea of freedom in my
[TS]
◼
►
head candidates he has some interns who
[TS]
◼
►
we never see but they are there to help
[TS]
◼
►
him with his in prison experiment maybe
[TS]
◼
►
maybe also purchased a hundred
[TS]
◼
►
thousand-plus guy fawkes suits for the
[TS]
◼
►
entire yeah that there's some economic
[TS]
◼
►
haha i accept the absurdity and D it's
[TS]
◼
►
not a literal movie it's a movie about
[TS]
◼
►
ideas and when v is torturing her
[TS]
◼
►
it's awful I it's also a movie and sure
[TS]
◼
►
is it is like he is telling the truth I
[TS]
◼
►
think she's being tortured by an idea
[TS]
◼
►
and you could argue argue in a situation
[TS]
◼
►
like that where being tortured that it's
[TS]
◼
►
all hallucinatory anyway right i mean
[TS]
◼
►
that that she doesn't have to make sense
[TS]
◼
►
because who knows what she saw or what
[TS]
◼
►
she understood she may have it may have
[TS]
◼
►
not been that great an artifice but she
[TS]
◼
►
was so confused and messed up that
[TS]
◼
►
there's that chic believed that it was
[TS]
◼
►
because that was the story she was being
[TS]
◼
►
told i can I kind of accept that and
[TS]
◼
►
that we're sort of seeing it through her
[TS]
◼
►
is because we pause though cuz i think
[TS]
◼
►
really i mean he's good but is he that
[TS]
◼
►
good a little late so I don't remember
[TS]
◼
►
the first time I saw this movie and at
[TS]
◼
►
really at the end when people start
[TS]
◼
►
taking off the masks
[TS]
◼
►
I sort of understood like this movie
[TS]
◼
►
should not be taken literally literally
[TS]
◼
►
ran it should be taken as move almost
[TS]
◼
►
yeah i just can't go that far yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
know I know it's hard because I've
[TS]
◼
►
watched it again just tonight and I was
[TS]
◼
►
like this is he's a bad guy
[TS]
◼
►
it's hard yeah it's all the
[TS]
◼
►
quote-unquote hero is an awful person
[TS]
◼
►
the story's all the TV every time i
[TS]
◼
►
watch this I waffle back and forth
[TS]
◼
►
between whether or not the ending works
[TS]
◼
►
for me or doesn't work for me because
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes it just gets a little too
[TS]
◼
►
close to magical realism with all the
[TS]
◼
►
dead people coming back at the end but
[TS]
◼
►
tonight it worked for me i thought i was
[TS]
◼
►
a sweet moment even though like we're
[TS]
◼
►
celebrating a terrorist blowing up
[TS]
◼
►
Parliament it was a weird moment from
[TS]
◼
►
yeah obviously nobody blow up Parliament
[TS]
◼
►
but at the same time maybe maybe there's
[TS]
◼
►
a cause out there in the world you're
[TS]
◼
►
upset about having a giant rally is
[TS]
◼
►
probably something you should think
[TS]
◼
►
about well even like you know i would
[TS]
◼
►
say in America I have grown up with
[TS]
◼
►
always seeing these big crowds all by
[TS]
◼
►
most recently but it's always been
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere else it's always been outside
[TS]
◼
►
the US where you see crowds gathering in
[TS]
◼
►
I mean I'm just I've never seen it like
[TS]
◼
►
where we've stood up on something and
[TS]
◼
►
actually taken to the streets it always
[TS]
◼
►
seems like it happened somewhere else
[TS]
◼
►
this movie brings up a lot of ethical
[TS]
◼
►
conflict right because i like a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
people and thinking what the frak can I
[TS]
◼
►
do I am somebody's choosing to work
[TS]
◼
►
within the system right as much as I can
[TS]
◼
►
and hope that that's how we can bring
[TS]
◼
►
about change but you know it takes all
[TS]
◼
►
kinds of young people know yeah I don't
[TS]
◼
►
advocate violence at all i think that's
[TS]
◼
►
the moment that we've really crossed a
[TS]
◼
►
line in America but I think like crowds
[TS]
◼
►
going outside and demonstrating I see
[TS]
◼
►
this film is being really a reboot of a
[TS]
◼
►
kind of anger fantasy from like a white
[TS]
◼
►
male libertarian dude and I see it
[TS]
◼
►
really turned into you from a fairly
[TS]
◼
►
clear cast our fair
[TS]
◼
►
a quitter set of riders and really
[TS]
◼
►
turned into a really modern story about
[TS]
◼
►
oppression systematic oppression so I i
[TS]
◼
►
just think that it's it's a very very
[TS]
◼
►
deep story about you what's going on
[TS]
◼
►
right now and i also have to say I think
[TS]
◼
►
part of that change is why there were
[TS]
◼
►
some of those reviewers that weren't
[TS]
◼
►
pleased with this interpretation other
[TS]
◼
►
because it's it's crossing this thing
[TS]
◼
►
this made for them and they're casting
[TS]
◼
►
it wider and that upsets people that's a
[TS]
◼
►
really good point i'm not surprised that
[TS]
◼
►
the v mask has been co-opted in the way
[TS]
◼
►
that has yeah yeah yeah totally i have a
[TS]
◼
►
question about the voltage these
[TS]
◼
►
specific terrorist violence here because
[TS]
◼
►
i think it goes to what we were saying
[TS]
◼
►
about v being a bad guy and we see him
[TS]
◼
►
torture EV and you know she's right to
[TS]
◼
►
basically take her life into her own
[TS]
◼
►
hands at that point but you know bottom
[TS]
◼
►
line is he blows up the old bailey and
[TS]
◼
►
he blows a parliament that beginning of
[TS]
◼
►
the end he has her hehe provides her
[TS]
◼
►
with the opportunity to blow up
[TS]
◼
►
Parliament and I i think you know i am
[TS]
◼
►
of two minds about that were sometimes I
[TS]
◼
►
think that because vs is a difficult
[TS]
◼
►
character and we're not supposed to root
[TS]
◼
►
for everything he does that him him
[TS]
◼
►
being violent like that is ok or that
[TS]
◼
►
this situation is perhaps so extreme
[TS]
◼
►
that is what is required and the other
[TS]
◼
►
part of me thinks I don't know if I want
[TS]
◼
►
to root for the people who were blowing
[TS]
◼
►
up buildings even if there is late at
[TS]
◼
►
night and they have defended enough
[TS]
◼
►
words late at night and it's probably
[TS]
◼
►
nobody there and there are pretty
[TS]
◼
►
fireworks and music to go yeah i mean
[TS]
◼
►
obviously blowing up a federal building
[TS]
◼
►
do not do that also do like that no i
[TS]
◼
►
will not only really hate you for that
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah I'm the old Billy food those
[TS]
◼
►
not familiar is sort of the main
[TS]
◼
►
courthouse in London it's it's
[TS]
◼
►
old-school old-school justice
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's where the statue on the time
[TS]
◼
►
but usually what that stands for ya
[TS]
◼
►
so in taking that out first in the book
[TS]
◼
►
by the way target yeah he blows up he
[TS]
◼
►
blows up he blows up to the Parliament
[TS]
◼
►
at the beginning on on the 15 november
[TS]
◼
►
and then the last thing that gets blown
[TS]
◼
►
up is number ten Downing Street actually
[TS]
◼
►
at the very end so yeah
[TS]
◼
►
move that stuff around i think also
[TS]
◼
►
smartly attitude that gets the old
[TS]
◼
►
bailey in the middle somewhere right I
[TS]
◼
►
guess I'm willing to give it a break
[TS]
◼
►
because it is a movie I don't think it's
[TS]
◼
►
literally calling for violence
[TS]
◼
►
no he also tells him that he's gonna
[TS]
◼
►
blow stuff up and he blows up the Bailey
[TS]
◼
►
at midnight which is not right
[TS]
◼
►
I i like to think that he wasn't killing
[TS]
◼
►
people because we see him well she was
[TS]
◼
►
so anyway tax a TV station
[TS]
◼
►
he'll he murders a lot of cops oh yeah
[TS]
◼
►
but he doesn't murder all of those
[TS]
◼
►
civilians who just happened to know even
[TS]
◼
►
the guy with the ball is in his mouth
[TS]
◼
►
right yeah he leaves that guy there you
[TS]
◼
►
know he'll try to think that the cops
[TS]
◼
►
are gonna show the guy that shoot the
[TS]
◼
►
guys that are just as him but like he's
[TS]
◼
►
got he's got some kind of restraint
[TS]
◼
►
there are only really two major like
[TS]
◼
►
action scenes where you get the quote
[TS]
◼
►
superhero effect at the end at it is
[TS]
◼
►
near his demise and when he begins his
[TS]
◼
►
brigade at the TV station which I you
[TS]
◼
►
know in in watching it a couple times
[TS]
◼
►
watched last week and I watched today it
[TS]
◼
►
was really weird seeing the lack of
[TS]
◼
►
action after seeing so many Marvel and
[TS]
◼
►
DC movies since then like it was weird
[TS]
◼
►
to see a movie that was I i use this
[TS]
◼
►
very very tentatively but a cerebral
[TS]
◼
►
movie that quote is superheroes
[TS]
◼
►
there's a lot of action like the first
[TS]
◼
►
30 minutes and then it really shifts
[TS]
◼
►
gears and there isn't a lot until later
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I think of it as more of a dramatic
[TS]
◼
►
movie than an action movie yeah
[TS]
◼
►
definitely I feel like the Cherokees
[TS]
◼
►
know that people buy tickets to go see
[TS]
◼
►
action so that you know you get some
[TS]
◼
►
action but this was not an action movie
[TS]
◼
►
it you know who's got the incredibly
[TS]
◼
►
personal violence of all the
[TS]
◼
►
high-profile deaths in the middle where
[TS]
◼
►
v comes in almost like a suspense horror
[TS]
◼
►
movie at times and it offers a few
[TS]
◼
►
people one by one in very tense ways and
[TS]
◼
►
it's not the kind of impersonal James
[TS]
◼
►
Bond adventures violence were used to
[TS]
◼
►
that comes at the beginning and the end
[TS]
◼
►
but there's still a lot there in the
[TS]
◼
►
middle know when he sits down with the
[TS]
◼
►
and daughters i love that Delilah
[TS]
◼
►
Delilah that scene is probably one of my
[TS]
◼
►
favorites falls far short of the
[TS]
◼
►
evaluations but man i love that that's
[TS]
◼
►
that's right i'll be home ready in 10
[TS]
◼
►
minutes ago while you sleep like would
[TS]
◼
►
be wrong to apologize now as he said he
[TS]
◼
►
says no hehe provides her kind of
[TS]
◼
►
kindness and you know that she you know
[TS]
◼
►
she regrets as you want to hang yourself
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah yeah yeah I guess I i can
[TS]
◼
►
struggle without for the same reason
[TS]
◼
►
um and there's some people there's a one
[TS]
◼
►
of my favorite games his tomb raider
[TS]
◼
►
right I it has some really grisly death
[TS]
◼
►
scenes where Laura is killed and makes a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of our players unhappy and you at
[TS]
◼
►
the same time every single person who
[TS]
◼
►
killed in that game as a guy i am always
[TS]
◼
►
yes sorry it came out in 2013
[TS]
◼
►
I'm always a little hesitant it movies
[TS]
◼
►
that kind of pull their punches when and
[TS]
◼
►
don't come to give women the same you
[TS]
◼
►
don't treat women the same ways as the
[TS]
◼
►
men are treated if you look at you know
[TS]
◼
►
throw in all of that you know they are
[TS]
◼
►
given a really violent bloody end and
[TS]
◼
►
you know she's treated a lot work with a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit more respect and maybe you
[TS]
◼
►
can read that like I think the generous
[TS]
◼
►
reading is you see it is an
[TS]
◼
►
interpretation of her characters having
[TS]
◼
►
yeah about the things that she did like
[TS]
◼
►
as evidence by her diary but why did
[TS]
◼
►
they assign that wrote that motherly
[TS]
◼
►
gold yeah character yeah why would she
[TS]
◼
►
be the only one to show remorse
[TS]
◼
►
that's good that's a real good point
[TS]
◼
►
what bothers me it bothers me a free
[TS]
◼
►
when you talk about the Wachowskis kind
[TS]
◼
►
of read altering this movie triggering
[TS]
◼
►
this movie you close reading between the
[TS]
◼
►
comic in the movie you will probably see
[TS]
◼
►
in many locations like changes they made
[TS]
◼
►
for these specific reasons but with
[TS]
◼
►
leaving the structure behind and I it
[TS]
◼
►
that's basically how I read it in the
[TS]
◼
►
movie is that look that you know that
[TS]
◼
►
character was a woman and she you know
[TS]
◼
►
and then they had that scene together
[TS]
◼
►
and so they left it but i do think your
[TS]
◼
►
you see the bones thereof
[TS]
◼
►
Alan Moore's decisions in the eighties
[TS]
◼
►
behind it right if you read the book
[TS]
◼
►
it's very interesting because they go
[TS]
◼
►
Warren depth with her character she was
[TS]
◼
►
having like a romance with the the lead
[TS]
◼
►
detective who you know kind of chooses
[TS]
◼
►
not to shoot TV at the end so she's a
[TS]
◼
►
much more complex character the
[TS]
◼
►
Wachowskis had in mind when they you
[TS]
◼
►
know adapted this film this book from
[TS]
◼
►
I'm just saying that one little part
[TS]
◼
►
bothers with the casting of bishop as
[TS]
◼
►
basically molester
[TS]
◼
►
yeah we got it like it's a little longer
[TS]
◼
►
there is controlling your notes yeah
[TS]
◼
►
that's right on the nose it's just too
[TS]
◼
►
well back in 80 back in 82 yeah that's
[TS]
◼
►
it not so now it's like yeah we know
[TS]
◼
►
like that's a serious problem but yeah
[TS]
◼
►
but a second 82 made sense and I think
[TS]
◼
►
again like judgments and it was like
[TS]
◼
►
well they just left it I think it's kind
[TS]
◼
►
of a funny weird creepy scene also since
[TS]
◼
►
she's sort of like is saying the truth
[TS]
◼
►
of like I've been held captive by the
[TS]
◼
►
terrorists and i love that she was
[TS]
◼
►
trying to escape
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but she wanted out in the comic you
[TS]
◼
►
know EV is young is very young I mean I
[TS]
◼
►
think she's 15 but she looks very young
[TS]
◼
►
and in that seems they have her dress
[TS]
◼
►
young and look young for the for the the
[TS]
◼
►
priest because he wants a girl little
[TS]
◼
►
girl and they and they still say the
[TS]
◼
►
same line she's older than you're used
[TS]
◼
►
to and all that they kept this with
[TS]
◼
►
natalie portman and I guess they can get
[TS]
◼
►
away with it because they have her like
[TS]
◼
►
with the with her hair up and the dress
[TS]
◼
►
and all of that but still it's calling
[TS]
◼
►
really you know they give their best but
[TS]
◼
►
it's like she I didn't believe it even
[TS]
◼
►
though it that was what the script and
[TS]
◼
►
I just don't believe it that she's gonna
[TS]
◼
►
really come across as a as a little girl
[TS]
◼
►
there because it's Natalie port but you
[TS]
◼
►
know I guess you go with it
[TS]
◼
►
I think that scene goes too far in that
[TS]
◼
►
I'm sitting there cringing the entire
[TS]
◼
►
time and it seemed that I think goes on
[TS]
◼
►
way too long and he gets in the way of a
[TS]
◼
►
really important character moment for ev
[TS]
◼
►
where she tries to escape but cans and
[TS]
◼
►
then V is freaking out about the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that she tried to out him and I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
collected enough again until she's at
[TS]
◼
►
stephen Fry's house at that point I
[TS]
◼
►
completely forget what was happening
[TS]
◼
►
this tonight was the only time I've ever
[TS]
◼
►
seen the movie where i was able to
[TS]
◼
►
actually piece together the dots that
[TS]
◼
►
there when you see her escape you see
[TS]
◼
►
what was happening because I for one was
[TS]
◼
►
able to completely listen to the
[TS]
◼
►
dialogue and what was happening with EV
[TS]
◼
►
rather than freaking the hell out of
[TS]
◼
►
this Bishop trying to get well I mean
[TS]
◼
►
one thing is troubling is that and this
[TS]
◼
►
is kind of common whenever you try to
[TS]
◼
►
write and film a scene like this is that
[TS]
◼
►
you run the risk of titillating the east
[TS]
◼
►
on the thing that you're trying to damn
[TS]
◼
►
and like this was awkward it's like why
[TS]
◼
►
they put in that we put them in this
[TS]
◼
►
weird integrated housing issue with it
[TS]
◼
►
then you lose the effect and why is he
[TS]
◼
►
going on so long
[TS]
◼
►
exactly yeah like yeah I mean it was
[TS]
◼
►
revolting it's meant to be reporting it
[TS]
◼
►
worked on that level but that took me
[TS]
◼
►
it had I mean I don't know how to handle
[TS]
◼
►
well right because it's straight from
[TS]
◼
►
the comic book yeah like yeah the
[TS]
◼
►
existing from the comic but i think what
[TS]
◼
►
to me what made this uncomfortable I
[TS]
◼
►
don't do it the film scripts it Natalie
[TS]
◼
►
Portman has spoken out on so many
[TS]
◼
►
occasions how uncomfortable it is for
[TS]
◼
►
her as an actress that are you
[TS]
◼
►
apparently people that have that
[TS]
◼
►
particular thing are really into
[TS]
◼
►
pictures of her when she was a child you
[TS]
◼
►
know when she was younger actress so
[TS]
◼
►
she's talked on the record many times
[TS]
◼
►
about how uncomfortable it makes her and
[TS]
◼
►
I'm like really the Wachowskis like
[TS]
◼
►
they're going to put her in that
[TS]
◼
►
situation that's just I I wouldn't have
[TS]
◼
►
written that scene but I mean I think it
[TS]
◼
►
makes that you know her betrayal of e i
[TS]
◼
►
think is a I think it's a damning moment
[TS]
◼
►
for her character too so ridiculous
[TS]
◼
►
scene from her but I audience i thought
[TS]
◼
►
it was good really
[TS]
◼
►
yes yes it seemed before it and she says
[TS]
◼
►
look I need you to understand AB&C about
[TS]
◼
►
Maisie's kidnapped her and he's crazy
[TS]
◼
►
and you want to get out
[TS]
◼
►
well I i see it like icv asking her to
[TS]
◼
►
stay there for a year is kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
reasonable thing like she will get
[TS]
◼
►
hunted and killed on the outside was
[TS]
◼
►
just a fat right so i can only see that
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but he's being selfish right he's
[TS]
◼
►
being selfish because she knows where he
[TS]
◼
►
I think that's part of it yeah but i
[TS]
◼
►
think it's it's just it's a plan overall
[TS]
◼
►
the I understand
[TS]
◼
►
right and then she's she's talking to
[TS]
◼
►
him she's like look I need you to
[TS]
◼
►
understand this about me and they killed
[TS]
◼
►
my parents you know they sent me to the
[TS]
◼
►
center to reprogram me I want to help in
[TS]
◼
►
any way I can't the way i read that
[TS]
◼
►
scene is it she chickens out in the last
[TS]
◼
►
moment like she was going to go through
[TS]
◼
►
and help him and down fails
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I kind of just assumed that that
[TS]
◼
►
was your plan because she said like look
[TS]
◼
►
I'm gonna help you
[TS]
◼
►
everyone knowing that it would that
[TS]
◼
►
would afford her an opportunity to get
[TS]
◼
►
out and get help
[TS]
◼
►
oh yeah i don't know and i think it's i
[TS]
◼
►
think you can read it either way
[TS]
◼
►
like when she decided to do that mission
[TS]
◼
►
is she really going into it all the way
[TS]
◼
►
or is she sort of me because she's kind
[TS]
◼
►
of stalling while he gets their sochi
[TS]
◼
►
half-heartedly giving him this
[TS]
◼
►
yeah this is all part of my not argument
[TS]
◼
►
but my thesis is a thesis I'm gonna get
[TS]
◼
►
a doctorate in this uh-huh it's here it
[TS]
◼
►
is guys wacky theory my headcanon and
[TS]
◼
►
izzy is an idea this is her struggling
[TS]
◼
►
with accepting the idea all right right
[TS]
◼
►
okay look forward to your your your
[TS]
◼
►
thesis on this yeah yeah you should get
[TS]
◼
►
an English PhD and i write this but also
[TS]
◼
►
you have any record in a bunch of yarn
[TS]
◼
►
to connect all pay a sum I think the
[TS]
◼
►
things that we see in the movie don't
[TS]
◼
►
make sense so we cannot take it
[TS]
◼
►
so given we can take it literally why
[TS]
◼
►
don't we just run with the idea that
[TS]
◼
►
haha i keep pushing back against this
[TS]
◼
►
guy because because the it is more
[TS]
◼
►
literal in the book in the source videos
[TS]
◼
►
in Vietnam it so so and I and I come to
[TS]
◼
►
this from having read the book back when
[TS]
◼
►
DC published it in the u.s. so i can't i
[TS]
◼
►
can't not look at this as an adapter as
[TS]
◼
►
an adaptation so that makes it much
[TS]
◼
►
harder for me to look at it as a
[TS]
◼
►
metaphorical story when in in the in the
[TS]
◼
►
source material it was intended to be
[TS]
◼
►
more more one-to-one I think honestly I
[TS]
◼
►
think you're right
[TS]
◼
►
a gym at that thank you to leave it I'm
[TS]
◼
►
gonna be happy of thinking the other
[TS]
◼
►
for me as someone who's never read the
[TS]
◼
►
book the fact that this movie is so
[TS]
◼
►
metaphorical comes through in the very
[TS]
◼
►
end when how are we supposed to feel
[TS]
◼
►
we're happy that the apartments blown up
[TS]
◼
►
we feel emotions about Evie saying and
[TS]
◼
►
that's why i love this man and the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that they added that love story in and
[TS]
◼
►
Evie's arc is about that coming to love
[TS]
◼
►
this man instead of the idea because she
[TS]
◼
►
keeps saying I it's not the idea i miss
[TS]
◼
►
it's the man it's the man that is what
[TS]
◼
►
makes me feel like this movie is so much
[TS]
◼
►
more metaphorical than the book because
[TS]
◼
►
the ending beats really don't work for
[TS]
◼
►
me I i have to say if you read as a love
[TS]
◼
►
story i could not a groove to love me I
[TS]
◼
►
don't read as a love story but she says
[TS]
◼
►
that she loves the man in the same way
[TS]
◼
►
in the same way that ties back to the
[TS]
◼
►
same the cell with the gay woman like
[TS]
◼
►
she's talking about how like I even
[TS]
◼
►
though i may not know your whole tree or
[TS]
◼
►
kiss you I want you to know i love you
[TS]
◼
►
just as a person and I think it's just
[TS]
◼
►
mirroring the exact same idea out its
[TS]
◼
►
respect like this is v's arc she starts
[TS]
◼
►
to someone who's beaten down her parents
[TS]
◼
►
were taken from her like well she's
[TS]
◼
►
hiding under the bed she sent to a camp
[TS]
◼
►
the reprograms her then she goes and
[TS]
◼
►
becomes part of this medium machine that
[TS]
◼
►
helps misinform the entire public she
[TS]
◼
►
was instrumental v captures our tortures
[TS]
◼
►
her changes her she has entire arc is a
[TS]
◼
►
character she reaches inside her she
[TS]
◼
►
finds strength she didn't know she had
[TS]
◼
►
and then like she's the one that flips
[TS]
◼
►
the switch again and she loves be as a
[TS]
◼
►
person in that same it's not like she
[TS]
◼
►
still has she still very guarded in
[TS]
◼
►
those scenes you can see her keeping her
[TS]
◼
►
distance is just more respect I read
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I don't she'll of yours either last
[TS]
◼
►
line is very clear she says he was my
[TS]
◼
►
mother and father and brother and Raven
[TS]
◼
►
cheat meal is a lot of reading and thank
[TS]
◼
►
you mother is not one of them right did
[TS]
◼
►
not what his role is to I I could have
[TS]
◼
►
done without the kids on the mask i have
[TS]
◼
►
to say i could have done it because I'm
[TS]
◼
►
is everything was bad yeah I did write
[TS]
◼
►
down the line that we was just talking
[TS]
◼
►
about because I was crying so I went
[TS]
◼
►
down even though i do not know you and
[TS]
◼
►
even though I may never meet you
[TS]
◼
►
laughs with you cry with you or kiss you
[TS]
◼
►
I love you with all my heart and let him
[TS]
◼
►
probably the court moment of the movie
[TS]
◼
►
yes absolutely and and it's and it's
[TS]
◼
►
lifted straight from alan moore script
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah I you we speaking of the end
[TS]
◼
►
of the movie if it and this is where i
[TS]
◼
►
could buy into a certain standard of the
[TS]
◼
►
guy English theory the the are the army
[TS]
◼
►
of marchers in their newly FedExed guy
[TS]
◼
►
fawkes masks and outfits and you know
[TS]
◼
►
ending with this sort of this triumphant
[TS]
◼
►
march of the pickup of the people and
[TS]
◼
►
even before that throughout this movie
[TS]
◼
►
every time you see civilians watching TV
[TS]
◼
►
are watching watching Stephen Fry's show
[TS]
◼
►
watching the watching political
[TS]
◼
►
statements in the propaganda on TV
[TS]
◼
►
the people are not buying it the people
[TS]
◼
►
are enjoying laughing at subtler I I get
[TS]
◼
►
the feeling that this movie expect it
[TS]
◼
►
has a very very optimistic sense of how
[TS]
◼
►
people living under fascism actually
[TS]
◼
►
react to it seems like everybody's a
[TS]
◼
►
good person who's just being who's being
[TS]
◼
►
held down by the man when you get in
[TS]
◼
►
there in the early going
[TS]
◼
►
you do get these speech about a accusing
[TS]
◼
►
the population of having let this happen
[TS]
◼
►
having this chosen but i think it gets
[TS]
◼
►
undermined by the whole rest of the
[TS]
◼
►
movie and I'm maybe I'm just really
[TS]
◼
►
really cynical and discouraged about
[TS]
◼
►
current politics but I that's it that's
[TS]
◼
►
an awful lot of people who are
[TS]
◼
►
apparently who apparently never really
[TS]
◼
►
voted for Norris fire and a parent will
[TS]
◼
►
be never really wanted what was going on
[TS]
◼
►
and I just don't buy it
[TS]
◼
►
wow thats dark chip no user and these
[TS]
◼
►
are canada's our time
[TS]
◼
►
well I do like the way the truth the
[TS]
◼
►
people are treated there is a scene very
[TS]
◼
►
early on where we see all the people
[TS]
◼
►
when he takes over the TV station we see
[TS]
◼
►
all the people who are watching in the
[TS]
◼
►
like in the pub and everywhere the
[TS]
◼
►
family at home they're watching and that
[TS]
◼
►
scene is replayed at the end when
[TS]
◼
►
they're trying to get everybody to not
[TS]
◼
►
worry about Vee and and nobody in all
[TS]
◼
►
those locations there's nobody there and
[TS]
◼
►
that's because everybody is marching and
[TS]
◼
►
I like i did my favorite moment like
[TS]
◼
►
those to cut and you know you know you
[TS]
◼
►
have to be paying attention is like why
[TS]
◼
►
are they showing that the TV and that
[TS]
◼
►
empty bar and it's because that's where
[TS]
◼
►
all the people used to be and they're
[TS]
◼
►
not there anymore because now they're
[TS]
◼
►
out marching I I like that part of it
[TS]
◼
►
but yeah I can see your point chip which
[TS]
◼
►
is you know it is it is it their fault
[TS]
◼
►
or not or is it beyond that which is
[TS]
◼
►
like look at some point you have to
[TS]
◼
►
stand up and they didn't stand
[TS]
◼
►
stand up and they didn't stand
[TS]
◼
►
d'Epinay allowed the the country to get
[TS]
◼
►
to this point but within their fear
[TS]
◼
►
about the attacks and all that but
[TS]
◼
►
they're not allowing it
[TS]
◼
►
they crystallise around this idea of v2
[TS]
◼
►
not allow it to go on on any further I
[TS]
◼
►
mean it is kind of fantasy like Jason
[TS]
◼
►
but yeah it was yeah it's very much
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's why I think he's an idea if
[TS]
◼
►
you do see you to see flashes a bigger
[TS]
◼
►
population in here like remember the
[TS]
◼
►
scene in the BBC station with the guy
[TS]
◼
►
watching laser laughs like keys hell yea
[TS]
◼
►
dressings added just to watch the people
[TS]
◼
►
there to out that don't get it
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you see it in like the the nursing
[TS]
◼
►
home shots of them reacting to vtv we're
[TS]
◼
►
just kind of like what I don't gather
[TS]
◼
►
and yes finches role like Finch is that
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's apart an inner party member
[TS]
◼
►
and who is is seeing this all these
[TS]
◼
►
things lining up and like do I really
[TS]
◼
►
want to ask these questions if you know
[TS]
◼
►
if God's there to protect me if my
[TS]
◼
►
country's there to protect me then
[TS]
◼
►
should you know what i do i really want
[TS]
◼
►
to know if they they're the ones that
[TS]
◼
►
are actually hurting me
[TS]
◼
►
we haven't mentioned Steven Reyes pinch
[TS]
◼
►
but yea he's the he's got a fantastic
[TS]
◼
►
fantastic he's got to investigate this
[TS]
◼
►
is with his friend of Rupert graves who
[TS]
◼
►
is a of course from from Sherlock you
[TS]
◼
►
know he was always a cop asshole
[TS]
◼
►
they they seem array in the end you know
[TS]
◼
►
he keeps following his instincts as a
[TS]
◼
►
cop back to what happened at lark hell
[TS]
◼
►
and he's told several times not to he's
[TS]
◼
►
threatened he says I've been a member
[TS]
◼
►
this party for 20 years but he keeps
[TS]
◼
►
following this he says 22 Rupert graves
[TS]
◼
►
uh you know how far are we willing to go
[TS]
◼
►
here because you know he realizes just
[TS]
◼
►
what he's doing up here and again i
[TS]
◼
►
would say in a more conventional movie
[TS]
◼
►
structure this would this be
[TS]
◼
►
he's essentially like the crusading
[TS]
◼
►
reporter kind of character digging up
[TS]
◼
►
the real truth and it's it's you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's a less a part of the story then
[TS]
◼
►
maybe it might have been in a another
[TS]
◼
►
movie but he is the he does represent
[TS]
◼
►
like a good person who wants to do the
[TS]
◼
►
right thing here even though he's a
[TS]
◼
►
party member and he's in this government
[TS]
◼
►
he is following the truth and in the end
[TS]
◼
►
he let Stevie you know he doesn't he
[TS]
◼
►
shoot her he doesn't stop her he lets
[TS]
◼
►
her go I did hate the montage know like
[TS]
◼
►
the date the explanation so yeah where I
[TS]
◼
►
see I'm i went over to lark hill and I
[TS]
◼
►
then I see the future blah blah
[TS]
◼
►
that felt like compression I was I was
[TS]
◼
►
good with it gives otherwise I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know how we would have strong little
[TS]
◼
►
things together you need some you know
[TS]
◼
►
either you need a character that you
[TS]
◼
►
need to explain it to or you needed to
[TS]
◼
►
get some kind of trip like that I i just
[TS]
◼
►
saw his pure or Chomsky like
[TS]
◼
►
metaphysical months that's like the
[TS]
◼
►
synthetic people enjoyed the make sure
[TS]
◼
►
people out the dead sensate and you know
[TS]
◼
►
like they are all in on that the this
[TS]
◼
►
people Cloud Atlas i get these are the
[TS]
◼
►
people that have this idea that we're
[TS]
◼
►
all connected and there are no
[TS]
◼
►
coincidences and we're living this
[TS]
◼
►
thing's the same story over and over and
[TS]
◼
►
over again that's there that's your teal
[TS]
◼
►
if he wanted to one of their films like
[TS]
◼
►
you better get ready for it so yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
was I was I was just their creative
[TS]
◼
►
wonder last yeah that's what I mean
[TS]
◼
►
about non-literal is just like stop
[TS]
◼
►
thinking just go for it like enjoy this
[TS]
◼
►
get what you can out of it it will begin
[TS]
◼
►
I want to say a word about Stephen Fry
[TS]
◼
►
because it's the uncomfortable we have
[TS]
◼
►
to talk about Stephen Fry it's days even
[TS]
◼
►
tries to drive peers in this movie as
[TS]
◼
►
Dietrich and he's I you know I enjoy his
[TS]
◼
►
he's really got one major spot he's got
[TS]
◼
►
two major sins i guess i enjoy the scene
[TS]
◼
►
where he goes to his house and he is
[TS]
◼
►
honest with her but also sort of like
[TS]
◼
►
letting her letting her figure
[TS]
◼
►
everything out and so she she makes
[TS]
◼
►
assumptions because she was sent in the
[TS]
◼
►
beginning of the movie she's going over
[TS]
◼
►
to his house because he's a TV star and
[TS]
◼
►
all that and she's going to sleep with
[TS]
◼
►
him but he he he shows he shows kindness
[TS]
◼
►
to her and then he shows her his
[TS]
◼
►
collection of banned books and he's got
[TS]
◼
►
a Koran and he's got he's got to
[TS]
◼
►
generate art that I think they did it
[TS]
◼
►
that is a direct reference to the Nazi
[TS]
◼
►
policies about art it is it is you know
[TS]
◼
►
he has the he has literally the
[TS]
◼
►
degenerate art collection it behind his
[TS]
◼
►
also i love a secret door
[TS]
◼
►
he's got he's got the secret door you
[TS]
◼
►
gotta have that in anyhow I wish I my
[TS]
◼
►
house at a secret door and and she sees
[TS]
◼
►
the she sees the photos on the back wall
[TS]
◼
►
and that's the moment where she kind of
[TS]
◼
►
puts it together and he's just I i like
[TS]
◼
►
how his dialogue in there is also really
[TS]
◼
►
subtle he's like you know i'm not i'm
[TS]
◼
►
not the kind of person who you know who
[TS]
◼
►
would prefer that sort of thing but i
[TS]
◼
►
need to be seen having in women over to
[TS]
◼
►
my house and she's like oh and then she
[TS]
◼
►
then she put together it's just I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know he's not in the movie very long and
[TS]
◼
►
I I find a lot of sympathy for him in
[TS]
◼
►
that in that moment the way he plays and
[TS]
◼
►
I think a lot of that is this is stephen
[TS]
◼
►
fry me the script is good for him but
[TS]
◼
►
even a lot of that is just that I think
[TS]
◼
►
the likability and kind of melancholy of
[TS]
◼
►
stephen fry you know ya solid movie you
[TS]
◼
►
know Mississippi right leg goes out but
[TS]
◼
►
when this car was in 2005 profile
[TS]
◼
►
yeah so you know there are a lot of like
[TS]
◼
►
Mississippi is not a state that's
[TS]
◼
►
awesome to gay people right so I saw
[TS]
◼
►
this movie in Oxford Mississippi and
[TS]
◼
►
there are a lot of your closeted gay
[TS]
◼
►
older people in that town so you know
[TS]
◼
►
when he's having that monologue about
[TS]
◼
►
how you eventually the mask you wear
[TS]
◼
►
becomes the person that you are like I
[TS]
◼
►
knew people in Oxford Mississippi that
[TS]
◼
►
like grew up and had a family and had
[TS]
◼
►
children and were absolutely gay and
[TS]
◼
►
just like completely hid it so I I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know I thought that whole thing was one
[TS]
◼
►
more powerful part in a movie to me yeah
[TS]
◼
►
and it's the one part it's the one part
[TS]
◼
►
of the movie that has no analog in the
[TS]
◼
►
original this is complete is completely
[TS]
◼
►
original from the Wachowskis the Gordon
[TS]
◼
►
Gordon Dietrich stuff the the hidden
[TS]
◼
►
Korean all this of you guess the closest
[TS]
◼
►
to it is that EV hooks up with a with
[TS]
◼
►
with with a sort of a gangster type in
[TS]
◼
►
this is this is completely different
[TS]
◼
►
this is completely new uh and and it's
[TS]
◼
►
one of my favorite parts in the movie I
[TS]
◼
►
I like the use of fri here a lot if if
[TS]
◼
►
that if the use of John Hurt is on the
[TS]
◼
►
screen is a 1984 reference
[TS]
◼
►
I feel I got some fahrenheit 451 coming
[TS]
◼
►
from this is the trove of banned books
[TS]
◼
►
it's not just that he has both the
[TS]
◼
►
banned books and the art but that that I
[TS]
◼
►
I felt like that was you know sort of
[TS]
◼
►
what they were going for with that I
[TS]
◼
►
don't love the successive scene with
[TS]
◼
►
Stephen Fry where he puts on the comedy
[TS]
◼
►
sketch with John heard plant
[TS]
◼
►
impersonating himself only because he
[TS]
◼
►
don't know it makes it makes Dietrich
[TS]
◼
►
seem a little bit dumb because he he
[TS]
◼
►
basically is he believes that they'll
[TS]
◼
►
just slap him on the wrist and he tells
[TS]
◼
►
that to his agent i kind of don't
[TS]
◼
►
believe me naive I I that he would have
[TS]
◼
►
gotten to the point in his career
[TS]
◼
►
I could see it as I'm gonna do this and
[TS]
◼
►
they can do what they want to me i'm
[TS]
◼
►
gonna make a stand but that's not how he
[TS]
◼
►
was portrayed he's portrayed as naive as
[TS]
◼
►
like oh come on the slap me on the wrist
[TS]
◼
►
of my ratings are too good and of course
[TS]
◼
►
then they dragged him away and I that
[TS]
◼
►
that I don't like as much I blamed v
[TS]
◼
►
directly to that because right before we
[TS]
◼
►
see the same when he gets dragged away
[TS]
◼
►
we are with pretty and those guys as
[TS]
◼
►
they get yelled at to take direct action
[TS]
◼
►
about citizens putting V and it's true
[TS]
◼
►
it's like it's right after that beat
[TS]
◼
►
this comes out and it's a stupid
[TS]
◼
►
reaction egg is he overplayed his hand
[TS]
◼
►
definitely in the old days could have
[TS]
◼
►
gotten away with it maybe but political
[TS]
◼
►
calculus has changed drag his doody is
[TS]
◼
►
on the scene that that was my read on it
[TS]
◼
►
instead like yeah he's naive because he
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't really understand the impacted
[TS]
◼
►
he has been having he brought the stakes
[TS]
◼
►
up to a level that no one was willing to
[TS]
◼
►
play you can't just play with the
[TS]
◼
►
establishment exactly they can't ignore
[TS]
◼
►
I employee to just watch this movie with
[TS]
◼
►
an open mind and a good heart
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I am truly mystified why anyone
[TS]
◼
►
would not like this movie like I think
[TS]
◼
►
it's by far the strongest work the witch
[TS]
◼
►
house tues have ever done and I would
[TS]
◼
►
probably my third
[TS]
◼
►
fourth favorite film I am utterly
[TS]
◼
►
mystified the only reason come up for
[TS]
◼
►
that is comic book great comic book guy
[TS]
◼
►
rage about it or maybe some matrix
[TS]
◼
►
matrix let down or something I don't
[TS]
◼
►
worry you know how do you remember I
[TS]
◼
►
never win it netflix dvds that was a
[TS]
◼
►
long time ago now but when definitely
[TS]
◼
►
that did the dvds and one of the things
[TS]
◼
►
you would do is you would rate the
[TS]
◼
►
movies as you watch them because that
[TS]
◼
►
would recommend new dvds to get you
[TS]
◼
►
netflix i remember this when I was
[TS]
◼
►
watching at this time netflix the only
[TS]
◼
►
movie in my entire time on netflix that
[TS]
◼
►
I gave 5 stars2 was befriended up the
[TS]
◼
►
only 1i gave 5 stars2 of all the movies
[TS]
◼
►
i watched in that whatever five-year
[TS]
◼
►
span it is i think it is a spectacularly
[TS]
◼
►
good movie and I do think I I think
[TS]
◼
►
maybe it's it's a comic book movie like
[TS]
◼
►
alan moore adaptation like it leave was
[TS]
◼
►
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen before
[TS]
◼
►
this Robin there's there's there's maybe
[TS]
◼
►
there's reasons there or maybe it's just
[TS]
◼
►
that after the matrix and the sequel's
[TS]
◼
►
people were kinda down on the Wachowskis
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know but I I because i do think
[TS]
◼
►
you know this movie has legs pics in
[TS]
◼
►
30-40 years from now guess what its
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I've got my quibbles with the
[TS]
◼
►
politics i think that some of the
[TS]
◼
►
politics of the movie or simplified
[TS]
◼
►
compared to the comic book but the
[TS]
◼
►
character are we are stronger i'm
[TS]
◼
►
hard-pressed to safe which I like better
[TS]
◼
►
because the beach movie has different
[TS]
◼
►
flaws but the story and the concept of V
[TS]
◼
►
for Vendetta is powerful and i think i
[TS]
◼
►
think the world's better for having it
[TS]
◼
►
as part of the cannon
[TS]
◼
►
I'm looking across the room right now
[TS]
◼
►
I've got into poster up on the wall
[TS]
◼
►
this is the only witch house key
[TS]
◼
►
property i have any real affinity for I
[TS]
◼
►
like the matrix by was never a fan of
[TS]
◼
►
you know the entire series one thing i
[TS]
◼
►
there you go I one thing I do want to
[TS]
◼
►
say I appreciate the fact that they
[TS]
◼
►
invented bullet time in the matrix and
[TS]
◼
►
now they've got a nice time at the end
[TS]
◼
►
man I thought that was cool but know
[TS]
◼
►
this movie I wrote it off because I saw
[TS]
◼
►
it for the first time you over 10 years
[TS]
◼
►
ago when it first came out and in the
[TS]
◼
►
intervening time I kind of wrote it off
[TS]
◼
►
as like a movie i like to know as a kid
[TS]
◼
►
especially because again the v mask has
[TS]
◼
►
been co-opted has something else and I
[TS]
◼
►
had a hard time separating that meaning
[TS]
◼
►
from the movie and rewatching again
[TS]
◼
►
tonight I'd don't know how I could have
[TS]
◼
►
felt that I really really did enjoy
[TS]
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especially now not to get political yeah
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this if you really love this movie
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the audiobook i got five dollars
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inaudible and listen to it like 20 times
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it's it's it's a real expansion of this
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entire movie so if you like that gonna
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go and if you're coming for comic reader
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and you haven't bagged it is not the it
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is super dense i mean we've talked about
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a lot of alan moore on this podcast over
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the years and the fact is he is a
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challenging writer and he is there's a
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lot of reward to be gotten out of it and
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I think although it is politically very
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different and I mean yeah I i would say
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the movie is a is simplified but it's
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also very different kind of political
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stance but I think it's worth reading I
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was glad i read it is not the first alan
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moore i would point somebody to but as a
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kind of bracketing watchman I think it's
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really interesting and and if you've
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seen the movie i think it's actually
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fascinating to go back and see what the
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adaptation choices were because it is a
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very different working a lot of ways and
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yet some of the scenes are perfectly
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faithfully rendered it's a fascinating
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combination of being faithful two parts
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but making a different hole so I you
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know I definitely recommend going back
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to to the book if you are so inclined as
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concrete it's certainly an easier alan
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moore book to read then say Prometheus
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yeah I knew you were gonna say that
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alright let's wrap it up thank you to
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everybody for being here this was
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awesome i'm so glad I had this on my
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list for a few years as a favorite movie
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and I thought this might be a good time
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no no no reason to talk about a brown
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blue thank you so much for being on
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tonight yeah if you like the things
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we're talking about here look at my race
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for Congress maybe consider donating all
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right look look at that everybody wins
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here yeah chips under thank you
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that v for vendetta should ever be
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forgot brian hamilton where do i donate
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to your campaign
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I don't have one but i do have to say
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our powers of observation have served as
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well almost like most thank you so much
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smash the state and God and guy English
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here's your PhD in theology I remember
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how the meaning of words began to change
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another value equal alright well gonna
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skip the whole movie
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listen to every word that Valerie says
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you get you got it and thanks everybody
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out there for listening to this edition
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of the couple we will see you next time
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