The Accidental Tech Podcast

207: Selling Hot Dogs on a Stick


  I just for the first time in awhile [TS]

  picked up my iphone 5s had an outfit for [TS]

  overcast testing this steak is a waffle [TS]

  time it's so good like you tried tried [TS]

  to accomplishing anything that you [TS]

  you're like someone who were trying not [TS]

  to mention it but whatever the last [TS]

  thing that you know it's like that the [TS]

  most impression on you [TS]

  oh god oh god no I mean yeah it's a kind [TS]

  of thing like i was doing some testing [TS]

  if you did a few days ago and that's why [TS]

  i just picked him out move it out of the [TS]

  ways we could put the show and it just [TS]

  feels so good when i pick it up and like [TS]

  man I'm it looks so good I wish phones [TS]

  could still look that good and still [TS]

  feel like go to my hand but then i [TS]

  actually use it to do my tests I'm just [TS]

  like man this is such a toy this is [TS]

  social offices but I've actually I've [TS]

  honestly been thinking like okay so my [TS]

  my phone is continuing to not be able to [TS]

  make phone calls reliably this it since [TS]

  i since day one [TS]

  both mine and tips iphone sevens have [TS]

  been very frequently exhibited the exact [TS]

  same problem of the microphone cuts out [TS]

  during phone call so that the other [TS]

  person can't hear us for like 10 seconds [TS]

  or four consecutive at a time often [TS]

  resulting in them saying hello until the [TS]

  hang-ups it and were screaming we're [TS]

  here we're here we're here and they just [TS]

  hang up after a while cos you know [TS]

  usually doesn't recover and it's you [TS]

  know you say you might think you're [TS]

  never on the phone [TS]

  oh I never never take phone calls you [TS]

  know I use apps on my phone time you'd [TS]

  be surprised how many times a phone call [TS]

  become something important even in a [TS]

  lifestyle like this simple things like [TS]

  when your credit card gets flagged for [TS]

  fraud and you have to call them and [TS]

  explain it and they hang up on you in [TS]

  the middle because they say I'm sorry it [TS]

  seems like no one here anymore we have [TS]

  to hang up anyway so I've been thinking [TS]

  about maybe trying a plus [TS]

  while I get this phone fixed Oh [TS]

  boom but I don't know I i just keep [TS]

  walking because like the camera on it is [TS]

  so good even though it's not that great [TS]

  a little light but I don't know I i use [TS]

  my phone so much and so often i wish the [TS]

  screen was bigger but when i do have the [TS]

  plus for like a week here there [TS]

  I'm just like oh this is so unwieldy in [TS]

  my hand I hate holding it I like it so [TS]

  it's easy and anyway that's that's the [TS]

  current waffle but it's not a very [TS]

  serious waffle yet maybe Michael work on [TS]

  me for a couple of weeks and we'll see [TS]

  but probably not probably just wait for [TS]

  the next one can we not put this in the [TS]

  show because i want to hear Mike slip [TS]

  after after it's inevitably released and [TS]

  then he start celebrating on you [TS]

  offering again [TS]

  also I take issue with something you [TS]

  said a minute ago the 5s unquestionably [TS]

  feels amazing in a hand [TS]

  oh my god it feels so good in the hand [TS]

  but I actually stand by my earlier [TS]

  assessment that this iphone 7 matte [TS]

  black that I have my hands while [TS]

  unquestionably slippier than the most [TS]

  slippery soap that you've ever held it [TS]

  is aesthetically my favorite iphone have [TS]

  ever used which is unfortunate because [TS]

  it is like holding a bar of soap but god [TS]

  I think this thing is beautiful that [TS]

  doesn't mean you have to agree but this [TS]

  is my favorite phone of all the iphones [TS]

  I've owned purely visually the on the [TS]

  phone sighs thing the air pods are [TS]

  giving me a a little bit of relief from [TS]

  the excessive size of the six side which [TS]

  is only size of what i have but it's [TS]

  obviously bigger than the plus R naught [TS]

  plus the the ipod touches i used to use [TS]

  remember i said when i first got the air [TS]

  pods that the clicker thing on my wired [TS]

  headphones was beating them in the [TS]

  kitchen while the airports have made a [TS]

  comeback because they allow me to put my [TS]

  phone down someplace else [TS]

  mmm [TS]

  and not have it in my pocket wouldn't [TS]

  think it would make a difference when [TS]

  I'm going around the kitchen and cooking [TS]

  but when you're cooking in the kitchen [TS]

  occasional you have to bend down to get [TS]

  like a pot out of a low thing or [TS]

  whatever and no matter which pocket I [TS]

  put my phone in it's just big enough to [TS]

  be uncomfortable when I bend down and I [TS]

  feel like I'm either bending my phone or [TS]

  it's just you know I don't know just but [TS]

  nice not to have it there are you know [TS]

  it's just [TS]

  anyway I feel better life for my phone [TS]

  down you know on a side table in the [TS]

  other room and then just walk around the [TS]

  kitchen with my airports are probably [TS]

  back in the house now [TS]

  hey goes to show that I would never [TS]

  trade down this for the smaller size no [TS]

  matter how good it feels in the hand [TS]

  because it like Marco said you don't [TS]

  just hold the thing it's not it's not a [TS]

  worry stone that you're just rubbing [TS]

  your hand you actually look at it and [TS]

  touch the screen and for looking and [TS]

  touching the screen on a bigger screen [TS]

  so i have one but I do like a good at [TS]

  the airport for letting me keep my phone [TS]

  away from myself while listening to [TS]

  audio i I'm just I'm so torn because [TS]

  whenever i am using it i want a bigger [TS]

  screen but whenever I'm holding it I [TS]

  want a smaller phone and you talk about [TS]

  the 5s but no i'm talking about the [TS]

  middle of the 4.7 inch size [TS]

  oh I'm never happy with this size but [TS]

  I'm also not happy with any of the other [TS]

  ones so i picked the one of the middle [TS]

  that's kind of mediocre at everything [TS]

  and I am I guess least at least unhappy [TS]

  but the but I don't know this is why i'm [TS]

  hoping so much that the next industrial [TS]

  design of the phone puts a larger screen [TS]

  smaller bodies like that's I would love [TS]

  so much you have the size screen the [TS]

  plus has but in something that isn't [TS]

  quite as much bigger than the plus I you [TS]

  know any any reduction in size and [TS]

  probably enough to push me over the edge [TS]

  even if it's a small reduction just like [TS]

  fine like and i don't i'm not talking [TS]

  about thickness you know that as as you [TS]

  know from ever listening to me complain [TS]

  about anything ever [TS]

  I don't care that much about thickness [TS]

  it in the iphones kids more about the [TS]

  footprint the dimensions because that's [TS]

  what makes it awkward in the hand and an [TS]

  awkward in my pocket the thickness [TS]

  itself is is not that important to me so [TS]

  I'm really really hoping the next one [TS]

  does something like that but I don't [TS]

  know this they keep selling so many of [TS]

  these I don't ever change it [TS]

  speaking of topical things [TS]

  so i have a question if the next iphone [TS]

  let's let's just assume it's called an [TS]

  iphone eat i'm not saying that's what I [TS]

  expect let's just assume for this [TS]

  conversation that the next iPhone is the [TS]

  iphone aid and let's assume for the sake [TS]

  of conversation that it is approximately [TS]

  the same size as an iphone 7 physically [TS]

  speaking but the screen because of [TS]

  smaller bezels or John gazelles however [TS]

  is now roughly the size of a 7 plus i [TS]

  don't even care if that's like a [TS]

  possible physically just for the sake of [TS]

  discussion is Mike right if we also get [TS]

  these iphone aids that are physically [TS]

  the size that we've always used but the [TS]

  screen size is the size of a plus is [TS]

  Mike right yesterday is it is like the [TS]

  TARDIS where it's bigger on the inside [TS]

  masters go with that just go with now we [TS]

  just go with it is like what if what if [TS]

  you could have a bus but it was the size [TS]

  of a matchbox compliments your home [TS]

  precisely and getting shot know it for [TS]

  reference so i have all three phones [TS]

  that were talking about right here on my [TS]

  desk have been doing this testing and if [TS]

  you place the iphone 7 on top of a plus [TS]

  phone you can still see the size of the [TS]

  plus phone screen sticking out the left [TS]

  and right after that up i don't think he [TS]

  knows how big losses it's way bigger [TS]

  yeah it's a lot bigger [TS]

  so yeah that's it's not possible to [TS]

  shove the massive screen into the mid [TS]

  sized body it is possible to put the [TS]

  massive screen into a phone that is less [TS]

  massive it would still be a very large [TS]

  phone but it would be possible it would [TS]

  be more pleasant in the hand it would be [TS]

  a little bit smaller and I honestly I [TS]

  mean in the number three of us have ever [TS]

  asked about my knowledge correct me if [TS]

  I'm wrong spent any time with one of [TS]

  these like android curved screen edge [TS]

  phones [TS]

  mhm but but there are you know you can [TS]

  look at other phones on the market and [TS]

  they they have creative ways to shove [TS]

  large screens into at least narrower [TS]

  phones and maybe also shorter but [TS]

  narrower is usually the the more [TS]

  important one and i think i would agree [TS]

  with that in the hand narrower is kind [TS]

  of more important for whether you can [TS]

  reach things with your hand and how it [TS]

  fits how you hold it [TS]

  but man I just again any like the very [TS]

  slightest improvement in size of the big [TS]

  one [TS]

  I'm getting it you won't be swayed by [TS]

  what they're probably going to do which [TS]

  is keep these the the seven form factor [TS]

  but pulling the margins on that likes [TS]

  the same size screen is the seven but [TS]

  smaller surround so basically it's [TS]

  making it in your hand feel closer to [TS]

  the five size you'd still go for the big [TS]

  giant phone with its margins pulled in [TS]

  as opposed to the the middle phone with [TS]

  the Martins pulled in so you're probably [TS]

  right that you know that is probably the [TS]

  kind of thing they would do like if they [TS]

  do one they would probably do both in [TS]

  with the same kind of treatment so the [TS]

  phone use described which is basically [TS]

  like the iphone 8 minus it would be [TS]

  really really great feeling in my hand [TS]

  however i would have the same problems I [TS]

  have with the current six which is 407 [TS]

  with this design which is that I just [TS]

  keep wanting more screen space and and [TS]

  you know all the you know the biggest [TS]

  battery in the biggest camera although [TS]

  honestly truth be told I have been [TS]

  totally fine with the battery on the [TS]

  seven agreed and partly because i'm [TS]

  doing a lot of iOS development so it's [TS]

  plugged in a lot just turning the dick [TS]

  but but overall the battery from the [TS]

  seven is noticeably better than I wasn't [TS]

  a success for me in my real-world use it [TS]

  is a substantial difference and so the [TS]

  point now where like TIFF and I few [TS]

  years ago I ran a lightning cable [TS]

  between two segments of our couch so [TS]

  that we would just always be able to [TS]

  pull between to the cushions we would [TS]

  just be able to pull up a cable and plug [TS]

  your phone in car charger captions great [TS]

  idea and we recently had to replace the [TS]

  couch and I haven't even set up the new [TS]

  one yet with the charger cable because i [TS]

  really like we never really use it [TS]

  anymore because tips phone always has [TS]

  the giant battery BacPac on it and mine [TS]

  is always putting my computer all day [TS]

  and what i'm actually using it [TS]

  throughout you know they're outside [TS]

  world like the battery is actually [TS]

  better enough in the 7th the regular [TS]

  size seven so that that is you know good [TS]

  for them i'm i'm really happy about that [TS]

  in in practice and and that's one of the [TS]

  reasons why overall i am happier than i [TS]

  thought i would be with seven [TS]

  that being said I still want the bigger [TS]

  screen and whatever the best camera [TS]

  is hopefully the next one they can fit [TS]

  two image stabilized cameras and [TS]

  hopefully the zoomed in one is both [TS]

  stabilized and not a meaningful the [TS]

  smaller aperture so that would be nice [TS]

  but i still do want like the best best [TS]

  best of all that stuff because i use my [TS]

  phone so heavily for so many things [TS]

  throughout the day but our apple doesn't [TS]

  make best of anything anymore i know [TS]

  that's kind of fucking yeah you gotta [TS]

  decide what what asterisks you're [TS]

  willing to tolerate that but anyway to [TS]

  answer question Jon I should probably I [TS]

  should probably just go ahead and get [TS]

  the big one next time assuming it is a [TS]

  little bit smaller but i would the whole [TS]

  time I would have it I would be waffling [TS]

  the other direction so yeah you'll hear [TS]

  about it [TS]

  justjust wait about what about nine [TS]

  months and you'll start hearing that is [TS]

  like you will buy the bigger one you [TS]

  will receive it you will use it for a [TS]

  week and then you all then you will keep [TS]

  it for testing purposes by a smaller one [TS]

  and use it as your phone back maybe I [TS]

  just I just want my wonderful seven that [TS]

  I'm unreasonably happy with in other [TS]

  ways i just wanted to make phone calls [TS]

  it's kind of important it is that do you [TS]

  think thats related to the Intel do you [TS]

  have the Intel chip instead of the [TS]

  Qualcomm on the radio i do that's that's [TS]

  another thing so i do have a book every [TS]

  I think AT&T sold phone i think i think [TS]

  all of them except in the u.s. I think [TS]

  all of them except the verizon one have [TS]

  the Intel one that i thought id never [TS]

  make phone calls from right exactly [TS]

  so that is also one of my theories is [TS]

  that if i said this in to get fixed and [TS]

  i buy a new phone in the meantime I [TS]

  would buy a verizon unlocked one and [TS]

  then just maybe you know as if i get the [TS]

  old one back then sell it or something i [TS]

  don't know i just want to deal with that [TS]

  this is why i haven't got it fixed yet [TS]

  has been able to make phone calls while [TS]

  since day one but I just like I need my [TS]

  phone all the time [TS]

  okay Evan there has been a time where I [TS]

  want to like you know ship it back and [TS]

  be without it for probably at least a [TS]

  few days while Apple does whatever to it [TS]

  and then it comes back and maybe isn't [TS]

  fixed mine has been completely fine and [TS]

  errands to the best of my knowledge have [TS]

  both been completely fine since we've [TS]

  got them are both on AT&T both on iphone [TS]

  sevens and they've both been no problem [TS]

  at all which i don't i'm not to say that [TS]

  you know that's not to say that you're [TS]

  wrong or anything obviously your [TS]

  experiences your experience but [TS]

  it's not a systemic issue with all the [TS]

  Intel chips it would seem [TS]

  yeah that's what I was wondering was [TS]

  like I want this bug or something I'm [TS]

  but by the way speaking of like how [TS]

  often we use our phones i have my phone [TS]

  right here and i can pull up how often I [TS]

  it's all calls to send and receive their [TS]

  just sent I'm going on the recent call [TS]

  section in the all tab that's everything [TS]

  right [TS]

  I would think so so this is 2017 phone [TS]

  calls for me one on the fifth from my [TS]

  house spam call on the 12 spam call me [TS]

  18 one on Thursday spam call on thursday [TS]

  and then one today so that's everything [TS]

  in 20 12 through three spam calls and [TS]

  three legit calls in 2017 so far it's [TS]

  februari don't use my phone I have 52 [TS]

  calls in 2017 [TS]

  yeah so you're you're feeling the pain [TS]

  of a weird microphone a lot more than I [TS]

  am you get this 32 33 34 35 36 8 4 [TS]

  screen but yeah it's it's somewhere [TS]

  between 40 and 50 and and i'm using that [TS]

  no more robust thing to like I don't [TS]

  know it's I mean it I i'm using it and I [TS]

  like the fact that it has caught some [TS]

  but I don't like that if you still get [TS]

  through [TS]

  yeah so iphone 7 overall thumbs up but [TS]

  for God's sake I want to make phone [TS]

  calls reliably and number also thumbs-up [TS]

  big big supporter of that now I tried a [TS]

  lot of the call blocking things numero [TS]

  was the best i think it's like two bucks [TS]

  a month some kind of subscription price [TS]

  but it's worth it [TS]

  do it value well why would i would pay [TS]

  more if it worked better and although i [TS]

  still have high on here which was the [TS]

  one I was using before which as you [TS]

  point out marker like doesn't work as [TS]

  annoying as evil because highlights you [TS]

  look up numbers so when one of them gets [TS]

  through and I don't answer it because [TS]

  why would I I want to know is the spam [TS]

  call and I can just you know go too high [TS]

  and paste in the number it's as though [TS]

  you 9 out of 10 people reported this is [TS]

  spam and I know you know yeah I mean [TS]

  like I i I've had no my Robo miss spam [TS]

  calls a couple of times in the last few [TS]

  days but overall it's been very solid [TS]

  because when i'm not running a blocker [TS]

  of some sort i get roughly wanted a [TS]

  maybe [TS]

  really yeah for the last couple years [TS]

  I've gotten like almost wanted a maybe [TS]

  maybe it's more like 45 a week so it's [TS]

  like not quite one today but in that [TS]

  ballpark and I had higher block 0 of [TS]

  them ever i ran for like two months and [TS]

  then i have i've had no robot now for a [TS]

  couple of weeks and I have gotten i [TS]

  think one or two in like two weeks or so [TS]

  i'll put a link to Marco's article about [TS]

  this in the show notes because it's hard [TS]

  to understand the name of these things [TS]

  we're saying hi present the word high [TS]

  and then yeah short free for you hiyaa [TS]

  and then Nomo robo is no more robocalls [TS]

  but it's a no mor OBO all onward yeah [TS]

  anyway like the blog post all the stuff [TS]

  is linked it just sounds like we're [TS]

  gonna force a made-up words but there's [TS]

  a relapse [TS]

  welcome to the happening it's like you [TS]

  know web two point O site naming where [TS]

  you had to like to spell everything [TS]

  because it's LOL its it's like flickr [TS]

  without the E and yeah I don't know who [TS]

  also named sites like that [TS]

  yeah who would then we respond to this [TS]

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  ah alright so let's start with some [TS]

  follow-up if you can claim starting this [TS]

  late from most important piece of [TS]

  follow-up that I think we have which is [TS]

  not in the list which makes John oh so [TS]

  happy when i go off off off schedule [TS]

  like this [TS]

  I've heard a lot of feedback about my [TS]

  shower habits and i have heard one piece [TS]

  is the feedback that has disagreed with [TS]

  me and said I am a barbarian for [TS]

  showering at night and overwhelming [TS]

  amount of feedback [TS]

  probably because we've we've been hiding [TS]

  in the shadows for all these years [TS]

  ashamed that are at our own peculiar [TS]

  ways dozens of us doesn't doesn't sound [TS]

  like something with an overwhelming [TS]

  amount of feedback including many people [TS]

  making that same reference i have said [TS]

  it is absolutely the only way to go [TS]

  you must shower at night it is [TS]

  disgusting to shower during during the [TS]

  morning time and many people wrote in to [TS]

  say i wanted i should've kept notes but [TS]

  i believe was Japan it's just culturally [TS]

  the way they do it is to shower at night [TS]

  forgive news like every country outside [TS]

  the united states like how are [TS]

  characterized the feedback was well [TS]

  first of all still the vast majority of [TS]

  the entire United States against kc and [TS]

  they didn't write in because the silent [TS]

  majority right probably true but [TS]

  basically every other person wrote and [TS]

  said in insert country that's not not [TS]

  the United States everybody either [TS]

  showers at night Sheriff [TS]

  twice a day nobody wrote in from other [TS]

  countries and said all we all shower in [TS]

  the morning because maybe there's some [TS]

  majority to but lots of people from many [TS]

  different countries in Europe South [TS]

  America Asia everywhere there are like [TS]

  all we totally shower night but United [TS]

  States nothing from them together okay [TS]

  she's crazy and so they just let him be [TS]

  there also were clear trends where [TS]

  hotter countries would more often do it [TS]

  and also it seemed more prevalent in [TS]

  Asia other places [TS]

  yeah there's some people point out the [TS]

  farther you get from Europe the more [TS]

  showers people take someone who lives in [TS]

  South America but ya know I'm hello [TS]

  I didn't think it was anything up to [TS]

  follow up and I think we thought we [TS]

  covered all the bases but since Casey [TS]

  insists on bringing out 10 here we go [TS]

  one point that nobody brought out the [TS]

  last time is like what i think is the [TS]

  obvious reason which again was instated [TS]

  because we all know cases the outlier [TS]

  here that the people shower in the [TS]

  morning is gets back to the the dilbert [TS]

  comic strip with after your shower to [TS]

  clean his object in your house right so [TS]

  after your shower that's the claims [TS]

  you're going to get you're just gonna [TS]

  get sweaty or during the day if you [TS]

  shower in the morning your interactions [TS]

  with other people for your day for 925 [TS]

  day present you at the cleanest because [TS]

  you go for maximal cleanness slowly [TS]

  degrading until five o'clock right those [TS]

  are the best hours you give them the [TS]

  hours here with that you know you're [TS]

  working with other people if you shower [TS]

  at night [TS]

  you've got a good solid eight hours [TS]

  sweating your bed before you meet the [TS]

  first person the next day for work so [TS]

  that's the obvious morning shower thing [TS]

  and I'm assuming that's why everybody in [TS]

  America showers in the morning you know [TS]

  John there's these magical devices [TS]

  they're called air conditioners and you [TS]

  can turn them on and conditions vehicles [TS]

  no because no one sweats at night at the [TS]

  room is the right temperature something [TS]

  like that I have some bad news for you / [TS]

  your wife as you age about night sweats [TS]

  John I love having the old man on the [TS]

  show to keep us keep us in check i love [TS]

  how like this week like everyone else is [TS]

  talking about apple earnings and we're [TS]

  talking about showers again we'll get [TS]

  there [TS]

  that's just follow up in kc added this I [TS]

  didn't have it [TS]

  the notes case you wanted to bring it on [TS]

  it's digging his own grave [TS]

  john loves it when I just throw [TS]

  something in at the last second chances [TS]

  favorite also i'm going to rearrange the [TS]

  show notes aspartame is a artificial [TS]

  sweetener and Diet Coke not sucralose i [TS]

  don't personally care whatever it is [TS]

  it's freaking delicious and it was it [TS]

  was mark over we got a wrong like [TS]

  complaining about artificial sweeteners [TS]

  I I knew exactly i knew that already but [TS]

  it just it doesn't really like but I [TS]

  didn't and it doesn't really matter it's [TS]

  like the concept of an artificial [TS]

  sweetener I made some reference to like [TS]

  it causing cancer and of course then we [TS]

  heard from everybody about how it does [TS]

  it doesn't cause cancer and chemical [TS]

  does or doesn't it doesn't but you're [TS]

  making a joke I I took it as a joke but [TS]

  i was able to get seriously which is [TS]

  worth when I was making adjustments [TS]

  that's not that's not a real thing don't [TS]

  be afraid you should be afraid perhaps [TS]

  of weight gain and some relation of [TS]

  diabetes from drinking diet sodas lots [TS]

  of studies in that like how could I so [TS]

  cause you to gain weight 60 calories and [TS]

  how does that have anything to do with [TS]

  diabetes with lots of studies around [TS]

  that that do indicate there might be [TS]

  something concerned about the cancer not [TS]

  so much i mean in general training [TS]

  yourself and your palate to not need all [TS]

  of your drinks to be sweetened is always [TS]

  a good thing because like basically like [TS]

  you know for for purposes of like [TS]

  calorie and sugar control the stupidest [TS]

  thing you could possibly do is drink a [TS]

  lot of calories like it's just the tear [TS]

  it works so much against you is so [TS]

  incredibly bad for you so like anything [TS]

  that conditions you two still want all [TS]

  your drinks to be sweet probably works [TS]

  against you in that well in that way [TS]

  even if one of the things you drink a [TS]

  zero calorie sweetener [TS]

  yeah I don't know it still tastes [TS]

  delicious and I'm good with that REM [TS]

  cove and abandoned Basra rights in to [TS]

  say once iOS 10.3 comes out [TS]

  do you think it will be worth restoring [TS]

  my iphone from scratch to get more a PFS [TS]

  benefits and then he he he or she they [TS]

  talked for a while about the HP HFS to a [TS]

  PFS conversion you know is that good is [TS]

  that bad [TS]

  John as our resident filesystem expert [TS]

  what do you think so what he's asking [TS]

  about i think is like if you leave all [TS]

  the data where it is just right all the [TS]

  metadata [TS]

  to new places maybe you have files that [TS]

  are fragmented and other stuff like that [TS]

  i'm not even sure if by the way hfs+ on [TS]

  iOS does the auto defragmenting stuff [TS]

  that they they added two hrs + years ago [TS]

  like where we'll find files below a [TS]

  certain size that are overly fragmented [TS]

  in its spare time defragment them and [TS]

  stuff but so was asking like would it be [TS]

  better [TS]

  ideally speaking to wipe your whole [TS]

  phone reformatted days there's a PFS and [TS]

  refill it with your data so that you [TS]

  have fewer fragmented files and in [TS]

  theory i think you could potentially get [TS]

  a nicer less fragmented layout but I [TS]

  don't think it would be anything that [TS]

  you would notice and i think it actually [TS]

  even be hard to measure because flash is [TS]

  not a spinning disk and random access is [TS]

  faster on flash than it is on spinning [TS]

  disks and fragmentation even if they [TS]

  don't have the auto defragment stuff [TS]

  that's part of HFS plus it's probably [TS]

  not that big of a concern so I don't I [TS]

  think you would get some benefit that [TS]

  maybe took great pains to measure it and [TS]

  had a really threshold and compared it [TS]

  with a fresh one you would see but it's [TS]

  definitely not worth people doing so [TS]

  just let convert in place it and it'll [TS]

  be fine [TS]

  so that's that's my advice cool [TS]

  oh and there's a question about whether [TS]

  a PFS will be open source like hfs+ is [TS]

  kinda sorta and what Apple has said [TS]

  about that is they're going to document [TS]

  the board they say the volume format [TS]

  yeah the volume specification so they're [TS]

  going to put a document for that that's [TS]

  not the source code that's just like [TS]

  telling you hey here's how the bits are [TS]

  discs and all they say is an open-source [TS]

  implementation is not available at this [TS]

  time didn't say anything about the [TS]

  future but who knows [TS]

  I so basically somebody else could [TS]

  theoretically make a third party tool or [TS]

  driver to at least read aps volumes and [TS]

  probably also write them but you [TS]

  probably wouldn't want to rely on it [TS]

  kind of like the whole like mac on [TS]

  windows and ntfs on Matt kind of things [TS]

  right [TS]

  yeah I'm like that you can see the HFS [TS]

  plus code which is you know very helpful [TS]

  for all my [TS]

  most interviews like it's all in the [TS]

  Darwin source repository but a PFS I'm [TS]

  not sure there's a big benefit to them [TS]

  open sourcing because it's not like I'm [TS]

  like Swift I don't think they want a PFS [TS]

  take over the world instead I think they [TS]

  wanted to be a custom-tailored operators [TS]

  isn't just for their devices that [TS]

  they're free to change in any way they [TS]

  want and I bet they will [TS]

  and I don't know if anybody else has the [TS]

  exact needs that Apple has like if you [TS]

  look at the features of aps they are [TS]

  exist including the ones that are you [TS]

  know fancy new features all the other [TS]

  features like having like / file [TS]

  encryption keys and forgoing a lot of [TS]

  these ETFs data integrity features and [TS]

  stuff are so tailored to apple specific [TS]

  needs because it needs that encryption [TS]

  stuff for what it already doesn't iOS [TS]

  outside the file system now and it can't [TS]

  have the heavyweight stuff because I [TS]

  asked around and watch and like I don't [TS]

  know anyone else has those exact needs [TS]

  so it's not really a general-purpose pc [TS]

  your server file system it is a specific [TS]

  purpose Apple file system has its name [TS]

  awkwardly implies response to this week [TS]

  by audible with an unmatched election of [TS]

  audiobooks original audio shows news [TS]

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  at / ATP if you want to [TS]

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  listen to audiobooks in virtually every [TS]

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  audio books are great for flights long [TS]

  road trips or even your daily commute [TS]

  you might think I don't have time to [TS]

  read books audiobooks seemed really long [TS]

  how much into that but you'd be [TS]

  surprised how many audio books you can [TS]

  read each year even if you only listen [TS]

  to and from work every day because all [TS]

  that time really adds up and audiobooks [TS]

  bring books to life many of them are [TS]

  ready by the author's themselves which [TS]

  adds an extra dimension to the text and [TS]

  you can take risks and try new authors [TS]

  and John without regret because audible [TS]

  offers their great listen guarantee if [TS]

  you start an audiobook you end up not [TS]

  liking it [TS]

  you can trade it for another one for [TS]

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  because you can cancel your membership [TS]

  at anytime [TS]

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  looking for with audible get a free [TS]

  30-day trial today by signing up an [TS]

  audible [TS]

  calm / ATP that's / ATP for [TS]

  a free 30-day trial [TS]

  thanks to audible for sponsoring our [TS]

  show ah so just was yesterday as we [TS]

  record apple announced their what is [TS]

  first-quarter earnings if I get this [TS]

  right i believe that's right [TS]

  so things are going well as it turns out [TS]

  will link to a summary by Jason smell at [TS]

  six colors and as long as you don't like [TS]

  the ipad things are mostly okay i don't [TS]

  know i don't really have a lot to add on [TS]

  this I've been really busy so I haven't [TS]

  dug into this deeply Marco any thoughts [TS]

  on this [TS]

  I mean I think it's probably best that [TS]

  we leave most of the discussion of this [TS]

  to other podcast with people who do this [TS]

  kind of like business he type of [TS]

  reporting more often but for the most [TS]

  part it is it is useful to just see [TS]

  general trends of how things are going [TS]

  for Apple even if we aren't directly [TS]

  investing in ourselves or care about the [TS]

  stock price like a night I used to have [TS]

  apple stock of a couple years ago at [TS]

  least if not more but I i have since [TS]

  stopped buying and selling any [TS]

  individual stocks and sold off all the [TS]

  ones i had and now I just invest if [TS]

  you're like mutual funds and things like [TS]

  that that might have it but I'm not [TS]

  directly investing so that's a [TS]

  disclosure there and honestly I think [TS]

  it's just a friend to friend here this [TS]

  is not investment advice whatever [TS]

  whatever however I think investing [TS]

  individual stocks with a substantial [TS]

  portion of your money is is a fool's [TS]

  game anyway I think looking at it as [TS]

  general trends for apple and as Apple [TS]

  watchers and Apple fans it is useful to [TS]

  see like these kind of numbers are what [TS]

  Tim Cook is graded on by the board by [TS]

  investors and so it [TS]

  optimizing for these numbers is a large [TS]

  part of of cooks goals you know whether [TS]

  whether he has other goals or you know [TS]

  it's for product quality and new [TS]

  initiatives things like that that you [TS]

  know that's all you know [TS]

  Vega nobles to the balance there however [TS]

  we do know for sure that it is very [TS]

  important that Tim Cook keeps these [TS]

  numbers looking healthy for the board [TS]

  for investors and that does drive [TS]

  product [TS]

  decisions on some level again like [TS]

  whether it's like a high priority in his [TS]

  mind we can't know that's up to him but [TS]

  it is useful to pay attention to what's [TS]

  going on here to see trends in what's [TS]

  working for apple and what's not working [TS]

  for apple and where they need growth and [TS]

  that can help inform our predictions and [TS]

  our opinions and and our interpretations [TS]

  of what Apple does so you know in in [TS]

  these earnings the iphones doing great [TS]

  it seems like it has kind of recovered [TS]

  from the weird boost and then slight dip [TS]

  that it had with the seemingly like [TS]

  related to the massive success of the [TS]

  iphone 6 and 6 plus it seems like its [TS]

  kind of back on a regular track now of [TS]

  steady growth so that's good for the [TS]

  iphone the iphone seems like it's fine [TS]

  that's good for good for it the mac [TS]

  division is probably the least [TS]

  interesting it's up a little bit but [TS]

  it's within within normal realm so max [TS]

  seems like steady healthy not set her on [TS]

  fire and that's to be expected after a [TS]

  year of having very few Mac releases [TS]

  then in his quarters when the new [TS]

  macbook pros became available so that [TS]

  helped boost those for sure you can see [TS]

  that in the graphs and like things like [TS]

  average selling price and everything [TS]

  because he ever selling pressure the [TS]

  back took a big hike up words [TS]

  that's not a coincidence in the quarter [TS]

  in which they release a whole bunch of [TS]

  more expensive laptops that were [TS]

  significantly more expensive than what [TS]

  they replaced that is probably one of [TS]

  the reasons why to make that up a little [TS]

  bit services are doing really well their [TS]

  services revenue is up by a good amount [TS]

  that's interesting because like that it [TS]

  seems like that is that is a major part [TS]

  of their of their future growth that [TS]

  they're going to want to boost up so [TS]

  that might include things like you know [TS]

  maybe we're not going to see a whole [TS]

  bunch of Cheaper iCloud storage this [TS]

  coming fall or summer or whatever else [TS]

  maybe we are going to see more ways that [TS]

  we can give Apple money every month more [TS]

  services more premium tears things like [TS]

  that displays into things like what [TS]

  Apple music is doing and they're there [TS]

  possible video efforts that they're [TS]

  hinting at or or saying very little [TS]

  about things like that so expect to see [TS]

  Apple because services of the wine is [TS]

  going up and is now a decent number [TS]

  expect to see Apple [TS]

  putting more into services and trying to [TS]

  make more from us from services so you [TS]

  know Tim Cook is really good at this [TS]

  he's really good at taking existing [TS]

  market that's doing pretty well and [TS]

  turning the screws so they make more [TS]

  from each person that's why the iphones [TS]

  now have two sizes and one of them cost [TS]

  a hundred bucks more than the other one [TS]

  and all the based or just stuck for so [TS]

  long because Tim Cook is really good at [TS]

  pushing the average selling prices up up [TS]

  to try to make more money from each new [TS]

  person that's why things like you know [TS]

  ipad cases are so much more expensive [TS]

  than they were in that the two parts and [TS]

  all this studying you have like a [TS]

  hundred our battery back for the iphone [TS]

  now and all these different things you [TS]

  know this this is why i like you know it [TS]

  wasn't an accident and this is [TS]

  definitely why the new macbook pros cost [TS]

  so much more than doubles anyway so [TS]

  expect to see tightening the screws and [TS]

  boosts in the services area so we're [TS]

  probably going to see again more ways we [TS]

  can spend money on Apple every month [TS]

  coming this fall or summer whatever else [TS]

  and then the other thing is the ipad and [TS]

  the ipad is down again and not by a [TS]

  small amount either it's it's still [TS]

  going to be efficiently down [TS]

  it's kind of hard to explain [TS]

  everyone has their own theories everyone [TS]

  has you know some people say Apple is [TS]

  not telling the right story whatever [TS]

  that means I I honestly don't really get [TS]

  that argument to be some people say that [TS]

  that I've had just last so long and and [TS]

  therefore people don't replace them very [TS]

  often and some people think that the [TS]

  ipad is so is a flop in some way and [TS]

  that nobody likes tablets anymore i [TS]

  think the truth is probably a [TS]

  combination of all of these things and I [TS]

  guess we were probably going to talk [TS]

  more about that for the rest of the show [TS]

  so i will move on from that for now and [TS]

  then the watch is kind of buried [TS]

  somewhere and other and we don't have [TS]

  any numbers about the watch [TS]

  except Tim Cook says it was the best [TS]

  quarter ever for the watch so good on a [TS]

  business chart that is now the highest [TS]

  bar on access that has no label so good [TS]

  for the Apple watch their their quote [TS]

  other revenue that the Apple watch is [TS]

  buried in didn't take a huge jump so I [TS]

  don't it doesn't seem to get into making [TS]

  it moving new [TS]

  watch on revenue for the company but oh [TS]

  well we are analysts maybe I'm missing [TS]

  something there but you know it's [TS]

  probably doing fine we just make the [TS]

  services thing is awesome doom-and-gloom [TS]

  about like go look at their services are [TS]

  growing there for apples not gonna lower [TS]

  prices on iCloud storage i got that will [TS]

  make the connection at all like services [TS]

  is all about getting more people to pay [TS]

  apple on a recurring basis for something [TS]

  anything one way to do that is to lower [TS]

  the price because if you can lower the [TS]

  price by half but getting more than [TS]

  double the number of people to sign up [TS]

  for it then it works out and as a lot of [TS]

  things buried in services not just you [TS]

  know when you say services a lot of [TS]

  people think you just mean I cloud or [TS]

  like the app stores in there which is [TS]

  one of the reasons everything is going [TS]

  out then Apple music which is has been [TS]

  back filling for the itunes music store [TS]

  downloads that sort of disappeared many [TS]

  years ago and now they're you know [TS]

  apples finally getting to streaming and [TS]

  it's the idea that Apple has all these [TS]

  customers [TS]

  surely there's some way Apple can [TS]

  monetize them by making them pay some [TS]

  small amount for each one of these [TS]

  little things and trying to get kinda [TS]

  like the original video content doing it [TS]

  by attaching the original video content [TS]

  to Apple music that basically is trying [TS]

  to get more people to sign a problem [TS]

  music why because I think once they get [TS]

  you on the Apple music thing you're just [TS]

  used to having all the music helps you [TS]

  you just keep paying this month after [TS]

  month and I think to entice more people [TS]

  to like you know how many people pay for [TS]

  iCloud storage whatever the percentage [TS]

  is now if it's not really really high [TS]

  like a ninety-percent Apple must be [TS]

  thinking we could get more people to pay [TS]

  for iCloud storage [TS]

  let me look at what the numbers are [TS]

  actually we've been overcharging by [TS]

  ridiculous amount as everybody knows [TS]

  when compared to other cloud vendors why [TS]

  don't we just bumped that or lower the [TS]

  price or both and then we'll get more [TS]

  people on board and by the way let's [TS]

  attach some original video content [TS]

  iCloud storage and she don't like that [TS]

  that the things they're willing to do to [TS]

  get to entice people to sign up for in [TS]

  our online pearls another eel are [TS]

  boundless and seemingly don't have to be [TS]

  that well related because the idea of [TS]

  offering exclusive like essentially [TS]

  television video content to get people [TS]

  to sign up for Apple music doesn't make [TS]

  any sense except that hey if there's [TS]

  something you want and the only way to [TS]

  get it is to do this you'll do it like [TS]

  its sole reason people sign up for [TS]

  amazon prime's they can watch man in the [TS]

  high castle [TS]

  what is man [TS]

  cast off to do with getting free [TS]

  shipping from amazon com four rolls of [TS]

  toilet paper [TS]

  nothing but you'll do what it takes to [TS]

  get the content right and this is this [TS]

  is a weird deal but people have shown [TS]

  that it works if you give them something [TS]

  they want they will sign up for [TS]

  something they don't want just to get [TS]

  the thing about how i did it i sign up [TS]

  for YouTube red just so i could or i [TS]

  sent for google play music just like at [TS]

  YouTube red on a family plan i don't use [TS]

  google play music I don't get sitting on [TS]

  my phone but I never actually launched [TS]

  it is just so I don't you see ads on [TS]

  YouTube it's a tried-and-true technique [TS]

  which is not ideal for consumers [TS]

  perspective but people love recurring [TS]

  revenue [TS]

  yeah i mean i i'm slightly surprised [TS]

  wilton I'll guess I'll stick with it i'm [TS]

  slightly surprised that things are going [TS]

  over all is well as they are I mean [TS]

  obviously on this show we've talked a [TS]

  lot about how we feel like things are [TS]

  not the way they once were and i think [TS]

  the three of us have varying degrees of [TS]

  how dire everything maybe but I mean [TS]

  this was their best quarter ever i mean [TS]

  i'm looking at the very first chart on [TS]

  Jason Snell's post and the the most [TS]

  recent quarter or 78.4 billion and the [TS]

  nearest one was the prior holiday [TS]

  quarter or first-quarter I guess which [TS]

  is over the holidays which was seventy [TS]

  five point nine billion so i mean that's [TS]

  that's what two-and-a-half billion [TS]

  dollars different something like that i [TS]

  mean that's a big difference in things [TS]

  are split up percentage-wise look at the [TS]

  slopes on this graph like gravel growth [TS]

  is still slow especially look at the [TS]

  year-over-year revenue like the reason [TS]

  this is a big deal because they're [TS]

  coming out of three consecutive negative [TS]

  year-over-year revenue growth quarters [TS]

  it's like a we're back we're back in the [TS]

  black we're back positive we made more [TS]

  money in this quarter this year than we [TS]

  did last year but you can kind of see if [TS]

  you look at those if you look like [TS]

  especially the big holiday quarters 46 [TS]

  5457 the slope of that line versus 74 75 [TS]

  78 right yesterday bro that growth is [TS]

  still slowing an apple right and that's [TS]

  something they have to deal with but i [TS]

  mean i think is in line with everything [TS]

  we said on the show we've just been [TS]

  disproportionately focused on our [TS]

  dissatisfaction with the macbook when we [TS]

  all were asked to pick what is your [TS]

  favorite apple product this year I [TS]

  didn't we all pick the iphone 7 [TS]

  I think so although now i would say air [TS]

  pods but at the time when like when we [TS]

  are maybe you'd say our part don't know [TS]

  but I think Marco I the very least the [TS]

  iphone 7 iphone 7 is a great phone and [TS]

  it doesn't surprise me that it sold well [TS]

  you know headphone jack whatever it is [TS]

  is a is a good phone is a tried-and-true [TS]

  think it's it's the third attempt at the [TS]

  same form factor it has better battery [TS]

  life they you know they worked out all [TS]

  the issues they could possibly work out [TS]

  the the weird home button and the [TS]

  waterproofing and I like everything [TS]

  about it is a good phone and I've always [TS]

  said they've you know they're doing very [TS]

  well in the phone space and because if [TS]

  you look at the giant pacman chart and [TS]

  you see the little do the pacman shape [TS]

  wedge it is the iphone eating the rest [TS]

  of Apple's products if the phone does [TS]

  well Apple does well and that totally [TS]

  Dwarfs any but whatever the ipad some [TS]

  sort of problems there that's lost in [TS]

  the noise service revenue keeps going up [TS]

  and the mac continues doing what it does [TS]

  and that the little hike in the graph [TS]

  like a mac SP is going up because I [TS]

  cranked up the price of the max it's [TS]

  like the old macbook for the past few [TS]

  years it's been like produce pent-up [TS]

  demand by not releasing new computers [TS]

  and then whatever the hell you release [TS]

  people will buy and if what you release [TS]

  is 500 bucks more than used to be your [TS]

  isp's will go up so it's not i don't [TS]

  think that's a healthy situation that's [TS]

  what happened [TS]

  yeah yeah and i like it like Marcus I [TS]

  don't know how much more analysis we [TS]

  should really be doing on this but I'm [TS]

  sad about the ipad it's funny I'm I [TS]

  don't know if we've talked about this on [TS]

  the show I don't think so but I've been [TS]

  flirting with the idea of getting a [TS]

  macbook adorable whenever the presumably [TS]

  pending refresh happens although with [TS]

  these with the way Apple as these days i [TS]

  guess i should never assume refresh is [TS]

  coming but i know i i'm i really love my [TS]

  my ipad mini and I have the most modern [TS]

  one which was brand-new or nearly brand [TS]

  new not this past Christmas with [TS]

  Christmas prior i really love my ipad [TS]

  mini i really like that form factor i [TS]

  know a lot of people don't that's fine [TS]

  but i can't help personally but feel [TS]

  like anytime I want to do anything like [TS]

  look at twitter and I don't want to get [TS]

  into like the consumption versus [TS]

  creation to be but anytime I want to do [TS]

  anything other than [TS]

  glance at twitter RSS or something like [TS]

  that I feel like I'm fighting the device [TS]

  i feel like i'm fighting iOS and so I've [TS]

  really been debating you know maybe a [TS]

  macbook adorable would be a better fix [TS]

  for this problem because it would also [TS]

  be very portable not as portable but [TS]

  very portable and it would do everything [TS]

  a man could do maybe not as fast as [TS]

  other max but that's why i have a 5k [TS]

  that i'm speaking on right now and it [TS]

  would it would probably be a really good [TS]

  compromise and somebody tweeted I think [TS]

  earlier today and I don't recall who was [TS]

  but somebody had said earlier today [TS]

  anyway that you know if you think about [TS]

  it the macs are getting more in more in [TS]

  more portable and the iPads aren't that [TS]

  different than they were a few years ago [TS]

  the software is a lot better [TS]

  multitasking is a lot better even my [TS]

  ipad mini can do the multitasking but I [TS]

  feel like the change in portability of [TS]

  the most portable max is dramatically [TS]

  better as compared to the change in [TS]

  ability of iOS on an iPad and so that's [TS]

  led me to wonder you know maybe I should [TS]

  just get a macbook adorable as a super [TS]

  portable travel machine because that [TS]

  might fit my needs even better and so I [TS]

  use this all and the reason I bring this [TS]

  up is because it's a case study of why [TS]

  maybe the ipad isn't doing that great [TS]

  and as Mark alluded to there's probably [TS]

  a billion other reasons but any [TS]

  immediate any immediate thoughts on that [TS]

  before we get too far down the rabbit [TS]

  hole [TS]

  I don't they go Matt could replace my [TS]

  ipad usage for me and I think that's [TS]

  probably true of most people put big [TS]

  maybe you're using an iPad because no [TS]

  Mac was portable enough but for people [TS]

  who are using iPads for ipad I purposes [TS]

  like there is no Mac even if there was [TS]

  Mac exactly the same size and weight as [TS]

  my ipad i still wouldn't use it because [TS]

  I don't need a trackpad I want to touch [TS]

  the screen [TS]

  I don't want to deal with the keyboard [TS]

  like I want an ipad for what for what I [TS]

  do ipad stuff or just you know [TS]

  browsing the web or reading Twitter or [TS]

  watching video i want an ipad right so [TS]

  there's no substitute for [TS]

  the mac for that the ipad sales stuff [TS]

  like that you know that we shouldn't do [TS]

  this rattle off the reasons we've talked [TS]

  about all the other things on Marco talk [TS]

  about them in his post about the ipad [TS]

  one of the most compelling ones aside [TS]

  from my path lasting forever is if [TS]

  people just use the iPads to watch video [TS]

  you want to spend eight hundred dollars [TS]

  to watch video on a little square the [TS]

  screen right yet that's a loser market [TS]

  the apples and that can't stake out the [TS]

  high end of square screens that play [TS]

  video because there is no high end of it [TS]

  that is that is doomed to a low-end [TS]

  thing all you need is some basic Wi-Fi [TS]

  functionality a reasonable cpu with some [TS]

  video decoding hardware and the ability [TS]

  to run the amazon prime and netflix apps [TS]

  right there at their Amazon tablets for [TS]

  that their android tablets that you do [TS]

  not need an ipad to watch netflix i [TS]

  promise you right and so that's what [TS]

  you're doing with your ipad i think [TS]

  people like tablets for that purpose but [TS]

  you don't need an ipad for that and the [TS]

  other thrust of was the title of your [TS]

  article Marco the future of computing oh [TS]

  yeah so we've got our was on the show [TS]

  before on us remind Marco once again [TS]

  because apparently I was their combined [TS]

  before he wrote this post but every time [TS]

  we discussed that I take great pains to [TS]

  emphasize the idea that the ipad as a [TS]

  specific product as made by apple as [TS]

  exists now may not necessarily be the [TS]

  product that that sweeps across the [TS]

  market and becomes the most important [TS]

  thing but when I specifically talk about [TS]

  the future of computing with capital F [TS]

  capital see what I'm talking about is [TS]

  post-pc computing which means computing [TS]

  without as many of the concerns that [TS]

  have necessarily come with pcs which [TS]

  includes dealing with Windows menus [TS]

  pointers file systems like all that [TS]

  stuff and as compared to iOS which swept [TS]

  all that stuff on the table and [TS]

  abstracted and hit so much of it that is [TS]

  the future of computing because people [TS]

  can't handle pcs in general and dealing [TS]

  with file systems and their files and [TS]

  windows of this just it's too much on [TS]

  the iOS or smartphone whatever interface [TS]

  where they take away almost all that [TS]

  complexity and massively simplified and [TS]

  protect you from yourself that is the [TS]

  future of computing unquestionably the [TS]

  question is okay how does that manifest [TS]

  doesn't manifest by mac OS lo [TS]

  removing all the functionality doesn't [TS]

  manifest by windows becoming this mutant [TS]

  hybrid thing doesn't manifest bye-bye [TS]

  android taking over the world order to [TS]

  manifest by apple introduced in the ipad [TS]

  it's up-and-coming on each one of those [TS]

  products to figure out how they get [TS]

  there but you know you it's not it's [TS]

  like saying well the mac and successful [TS]

  so let's all go back to us [TS]

  nope that's not the answer but like you [TS]

  know you can see what the future is [TS]

  because we've all lived in our entire [TS]

  lives and seeing how badly [TS]

  humans are at dealing with pcs with all [TS]

  the stuff they come with and then iOS [TS]

  showed us a way to get a computing [TS]

  platform with almost all that stuff gone [TS]

  and now we're just hanging out yeah but [TS]

  what about like the stuff he can't do [TS]

  and the ipad thus far has been doing as [TS]

  Marco points out not a great job of [TS]

  showing you how you can get that same [TS]

  stuff done without the complications but [TS]

  it's very clear that without the [TS]

  complications that is so much more [TS]

  accessible because everybody has [TS]

  smartphones and nobody deals with any of [TS]

  that weird PC crap on their smartphones [TS]

  like everything is just so much simpler [TS]

  and easier and easy-to-use which is why [TS]

  smartphones that raced across the entire [TS]

  world and a tablet is just basically up [TS]

  your smartphone in terms of how hard it [TS]

  is to use at this point that has to [TS]

  change if you ever want a capital a [TS]

  capital C future computing to actually [TS]

  marginalize the pc to push it down into [TS]

  the specific realms where it will have [TS]

  to remain right but it's that hasn't [TS]

  happened yet [TS]

  microsoft trying to do with service to [TS]

  do apple sort of trying to do with the [TS]

  ipad pro but half-heartedly is android [TS]

  doing anything in the space i don't know [TS]

  i mean maybe account Chromebooks is an [TS]

  attempt to get out away from the the [TS]

  some of the other that the dangers of [TS]

  PCs but like doing a very good job but [TS]

  but anyway that's that's the future [TS]

  computer we all believe in and what we [TS]

  what Apple should be what we should be [TS]

  creating an apple is like you're blowing [TS]

  it [TS]

  you are not achieving that you you want [TS]

  to have your cake but you know it's a [TS]

  terrible anyway they want to thank you [TS]

  but it's the it's the ipad and it's [TS]

  simple like your phones like yes it is [TS]

  and you use your place you bc it's like [TS]

  well can we write and you know it it [TS]

  Apple has to show us how to do that [TS]

  because there are things we need to do [TS]

  and we need to be able to do them and [TS]

  they need to be pleasant just like yeah [TS]

  web browsing [TS]

  previously we were not able to do web [TS]

  browsing our phones [TS]

  or it was incredibly unpleasant and [TS]

  apple said no actually you can do web [TS]

  browsing on a tablet and phone and I [TS]

  think we would all agree the browsing [TS]

  the web on a tablet is super pleasant it [TS]

  in many many ways nicer than doing it on [TS]

  a pc if only because you can be sitting [TS]

  on the couch and looking back and using [TS]

  your fingers like more like flipping [TS]

  through a magazine web browsing you've [TS]

  nailed that ipad but as Marco point out [TS]

  a million other things like whether [TS]

  before editing a podcaster using [TS]

  photoshop or dealing with a complicated [TS]

  projects that span lots of different [TS]

  applications and share data you know the [TS]

  typical piece at keysight stuff I it [TS]

  hasn't yet been demonstrated that were [TS]

  able to do all those things in the same [TS]

  way so everyone else is a contender the [TS]

  mac is still contender for the future of [TS]

  computing provided Apple was willing to [TS]

  remove all the functionality we know and [TS]

  love about the mac which I hope they [TS]

  never do but that that's one way you [TS]

  could try to get there you can try to [TS]

  get there like Microsoft bye-bye weirdly [TS]

  more from your desktop OS into a hybrid [TS]

  OS does both things at once and you know [TS]

  who knows how we get there but iOS such [TS]

  a stake in the ground is to say it's [TS]

  obvious that in the future [TS]

  no one wants to deal with the crap that [TS]

  we deal with on Macs and PCs today like [TS]

  that is not the future of computing we [TS]

  have to leave that behind but so far the [TS]

  ipad has not been a compelling argument [TS]

  that and there was one other graph [TS]

  that's not in Jason's smells page that [TS]

  work out here in six colors calm which [TS]

  will put in the show notes that has tons [TS]

  and tons of pretty graphs one page that [TS]

  I think maybe Horace tweeted or [TS]

  something [TS]

  it's showing a graphs of days of the [TS]

  week like average days of the week usage [TS]

  time for what was it for smart phones [TS]

  and pcs and the smart phone line is like [TS]

  this little lumpy thing that goes along [TS]

  right you don't see any particular large [TS]

  trends there and the pc thing goes [TS]

  monday through friday huge dip saturday [TS]

  and sunday and backup for monday through [TS]

  friday huge dip saturday and sunday [TS]

  which is something that people use pcs [TS]

  the weekends right and what are they not [TS]

  on the weekends they're not at work so [TS]

  maybe they're using PC's at work or [TS]

  maybe the only considers pc is a work [TS]

  like thing but the phones they use all [TS]

  the time I feel like if the ipad curve [TS]

  was shown it would look more like the [TS]

  phone cover unless like to PC curve [TS]

  because people aren't for the most part [TS]

  doing [TS]

  work on their iPad the iPad curve would [TS]

  just be like i use the same at pretty [TS]

  much every day it would be like the [TS]

  weekends here i'm not going to be my [TS]

  iPad because he was my pad for work [TS]

  you'll know that's the idea that the [TS]

  ipad or any other pc replacement device [TS]

  or post-pc devices finally useful for [TS]

  all the same thing species are when it [TS]

  starts to get the same curve because [TS]

  everyone's got to do some work and a lot [TS]

  of people do work involving some kind of [TS]

  task with computing and if they're still [TS]

  doing that on personal computer type [TS]

  devices minutes it could be lagging [TS]

  indicator so maybe we have to wait a few [TS]

  more years but right now think of the [TS]

  number of people you know every day go [TS]

  to work and just use a tablet of any [TS]

  kind as opposed to pci no way more pc [TS]

  users maybe because all my friends are [TS]

  old but keep an eye on that I mean I [TS]

  think what we're seeing that I think the [TS]

  right way to interpret the ipad and the [TS]

  future of computing and everything else [TS]

  is probably something between the crazy [TS]

  blog post i made and the argument that [TS]

  John is making and the argument that [TS]

  Jason snow made on upgrade this week you [TS]

  know that the future of computing is not [TS]

  going to be just one of these types of [TS]

  things it's not going to be just tablets [TS]

  and it's not going to be just computers [TS]

  my argument is not that the ipad is [TS]

  failing as a thing or that it's going [TS]

  away or that useless to everybody [TS]

  my argument is simply that when when [TS]

  people say this is the future of [TS]

  computing what they usually mean by that [TS]

  is going to replace the pc style [TS]

  computer you know I'm again I mean pcs [TS]

  and macs and that basically mean nothing [TS]

  for the most part in laptops and you [TS]

  know other desktops and things that run [TS]

  windows or mac OS like or linux even [TS]

  like pc-style os's and i think that the [TS]

  most likely outcome here is that the as [TS]

  is a tablets event of all sorts are not [TS]

  going to replace pcs they are going to [TS]

  do what they've been doing which is add [TS]

  to them augment them they're going to be [TS]

  some people who only primarily like [TS]

  tablets is going to be some people that [TS]

  only are primarily like pcs they're not [TS]

  going to actually replace each other in [TS]

  either direction [TS]

  well the only way that will happen i [TS]

  don't think you can do that I think [TS]

  you can have them not replace them [TS]

  unless pcs essentially become [TS]

  essentially adopt all the attributes [TS]

  that I was just discussing of iOS style [TS]

  computing like in other words pcs would [TS]

  have to abandon all the weird-ass [TS]

  crafted regular people don't like and [TS]

  can handle about pcs i like because they [TS]

  can't they can't stay in a current state [TS]

  of like with all the legacy stuff that [TS]

  the PCOS have to deal with that is an [TS]

  untenable situation because people can't [TS]

  use them and people can use phones and [TS]

  so something something is going to [TS]

  marginalize current style pcs whether [TS]

  it's the pieces themselves changing [TS]

  because it totally could be like you [TS]

  could take any of those opportunities [TS]

  operating systems you listed and slowly [TS]

  basically I OSFI them while leaving [TS]

  enough of the functionality still there [TS]

  you know for showing through so you can [TS]

  get more stuff done and you can an ipad [TS]

  for example but you can't leave it there [TS]

  it's again it's like going back two dots [TS]

  like saying well I can't do everything I [TS]

  was mad that I can do it on my pc with [TS]

  das therefore it's a dead-end people [TS]

  just you keep using the last forever [TS]

  they won't like you the capabilities of [TS]

  the GUI will eventually expand to do [TS]

  enough of the things you know so I like [TS]

  I i don't think there is any situation [TS]

  where the pc as exists today with all [TS]

  this legacy concerns does not become [TS]

  marginalizing the future is just a [TS]

  question of what marginalize it like not [TS]

  disappear but marginalized like it in [TS]

  the same way that you know people using [TS]

  the command line still tons of people [TS]

  looking online today I use it every day [TS]

  but it's marginalized i'm not entirely [TS]

  sure that your premises are our sound [TS]

  here so problem number one is that you [TS]

  said people can't figure out how to use [TS]

  pcs but they can use their phones do we [TS]

  actually know that it is that is [TS]

  actually a thing like our pcs really as [TS]

  hard as as we think they're to use and [TS]

  then our phones as easy as you think [TS]

  they are to use or is that cap actually [TS]

  smaller than what we might think oh it's [TS]

  big [TS]

  go go find someone who has a pc whether [TS]

  at work or at home even and just look at [TS]

  it that's all I was just just look at it [TS]

  just to sit watch them use it and see [TS]

  what's on it and see what state it's in [TS]

  and ask them to use to do something and [TS]

  yes people have trouble with phones too [TS]

  it's a relative thing but one is so much [TS]

  easier than the other [TS]

  don't you know one is not infinitely [TS]

  easy and one is not infinitely hard and [TS]

  yes you can learn to use anything but [TS]

  you have to get rid of those things that [TS]

  people don't like to to be concerned [TS]

  about it means the reason people love [TS]

  the phone so much they took away so many [TS]

  things that they have to worry about [TS]

  right let's make let's on Android but I [TS]

  don't know about this village on the big [TS]

  reasons that's always in your pocket and [TS]

  it has these awesome cameras and sensors [TS]

  and always data connections like there's [TS]

  a lot about phones to love that don't [TS]

  have to do with the usability paradigm [TS]

  of their software but people people use [TS]

  that people can do things with their [TS]

  phones that the pcs could also do but [TS]

  they never did with the pcs because it [TS]

  was too much of a pain even just down to [TS]

  like installing software so easy on [TS]

  phones hard enough on on personal [TS]

  computers and so fraught on personal [TS]

  computers because of lack of the app [TS]

  store and viruses and all sorts of stuff [TS]

  like that that people didn't attempt it [TS]

  or accidentally attempted to backside [TS]

  clicking on things installed browser [TS]

  toolbars and crap like that you know [TS]

  like well all the crap of the pc world [TS]

  makes it so people even if they were [TS]

  equally easy to use it would say well [TS]

  the this feels safer [TS]

  suddenly i'm installing software all the [TS]

  cool new app I'm gonna try it no no one [TS]

  regular people were not discussing cool [TS]

  new apps for their pcs only nerds for [TS]

  that alone is resting a huge I think [TS]

  you're describing android is that maybe [TS]

  less than 100 even android if you like [TS]

  the disposability phones like well my [TS]

  phone is hosed I like you know the fact [TS]

  that normalize backups and the anything [TS]

  to nobody essentially nobody did to [TS]

  their personal computers but because of [TS]

  cloud backup cell phone stuff built in [TS]

  more people have a shot at having some [TS]

  kind of backup of something somewhere on [TS]

  their phones where species like forget [TS]

  it no your backups might as well not [TS]

  exist as far as the non nerd world is [TS]

  concerned [TS]

  well and and so I think there's this [TS]

  continuum here you know like you [TS]

  mentioned like you command line all the [TS]

  way up all the way up to like gooey and [TS]

  phone when you're in the the more [TS]

  command line side of it the more [TS]

  difficult side of it getting getting [TS]

  like productivity and power user type [TS]

  tasks done is it possibly easier than on [TS]

  the easy devices but casual use harder [TS]

  and then on the on the devices like [TS]

  phones and iPads getting productivity [TS]

  and power use type things done is [TS]

  actually hard to figure out but casual [TS]

  users easier [TS]

  somewhere in the middle there is the pc [TS]

  style OS it pieces are lessons are you [TS]

  know they they kind of try to be [TS]

  everything I think we are generally much [TS]

  better using them for productivity type [TS]

  things in Paris type things and that's [TS]

  partially because most productivity and [TS]

  power user people have grown up with [TS]

  computers to some degree or having a [TS]

  certain number of years using them so [TS]

  there's already a lot of people you know [TS]

  what people are used to people already [TS]

  trained on how to use computers for the [TS]

  most part but also part of just the [TS]

  design of them is you know with with [TS]

  like these kind of file centric [TS]

  paradigms of the desktops and everything [TS]

  and all this drag and drop multiple [TS]

  windows kind of stuff it's just a lot [TS]

  easier to do a lot of tasks as a lot of [TS]

  like productivity and powers of tasks on [TS]

  a pc silo s that's not to say that I [TS]

  pads and stuff can't get some of those [TS]

  features but that but also you can't say [TS]

  that pcs can't get some of the better [TS]

  ease of use and security features that [TS]

  I've had and phones have that's all [TS]

  that's all I'm saying like if it if you [TS]

  do that to the PC operating system you [TS]

  know the if you start hiding the [TS]

  filesystem pieces operating systems like [TS]

  it's the same argument is just like it's [TS]

  the question of venue where where is [TS]

  that going to happen it's going to [TS]

  happen because people don't like the old [TS]

  way they like the new way better i do [TS]

  they [TS]

  i'm pretty sure that sales curve showing [TS]

  something else yes they've proven it by [TS]

  blood but by what they want to buy I [TS]

  mean like so here's the thing with with [TS]

  it with the complexity of tasks [TS]

  it's about marginalizing uses about [TS]

  chasing them farther into the corner [TS]

  like so people who use the command line [TS]

  and who do sophisticated things with the [TS]

  computers will still need pcs but all [TS]

  those people who just do email word [TS]

  processing calendaring web browsing they [TS]

  don't need pcs now they have them [TS]

  because basically the only way to get [TS]

  outlook and to be able to see pdfs and [TS]

  do all the stuff but increasingly if [TS]

  your company uses google docs and slack [TS]

  and so not like you [TS]

  there's no reason those people need a [TS]

  full-fledged pc not because they're [TS]

  doing command-line stuff but they're not [TS]

  even doing anything complicated enough [TS]

  to require them to use the non [TS]

  command-line portions of a GUI like they [TS]

  don't have multiple files that they're [TS]

  assembling into a large you know project [TS]

  they're not doing as you know [TS]

  development is also kind of a command or [TS]

  anything but it's a matter of slowly [TS]

  making the people who need pcs the [TS]

  smaller and smaller subset of people in [TS]

  the same way the people who need command [TS]

  lines have become a smaller and smaller [TS]

  subset of people it stops at some point [TS]

  it's not as if you mean if the command [TS]

  line and marginalizing the command line [TS]

  has really stalled out because so many [TS]

  people to software development or do [TS]

  stuff involving you know servers and so [TS]

  on where the command line is important [TS]

  and is not going away anytime soon [TS]

  right so it's not like you chased [TS]

  command line to wait until the only [TS]

  three people in the world using it but [TS]

  it shrinks way down from where was the [TS]

  last thing like to do your regular [TS]

  business stuff you don't need a command [TS]

  line you can get that all done with a [TS]

  gooey which was which was an argument [TS]

  points like well I want to really work [TS]

  done any dots but I wanted this one [TS]

  silly thing like drop the so digital [TS]

  painting maybe I can use a GUI [TS]

  eventually you can do everything we go [TS]

  you can do your fancy business [TS]

  spreadsheets you can write your word [TS]

  processing things even had been invented [TS]

  but you could do that too [TS]

  like hell you know you do all that stuff [TS]

  from the GUI it's just a question of [TS]

  marginalizing that stuff and if that [TS]

  stuff gets marginalized by like old [TS]

  style pc operating system and new style [TS]

  one that hides all that crap or mode [TS]

  within one or that it really depends on [TS]

  the particular company then ends up [TS]

  figuring this out whether it be apple [TS]

  with its whole different OS ipad [TS]

  approach or Microsoft with hybrid [TS]

  approach or Android with its follow us [TS]

  everywhere cross [TS]

  everywhere cross [TS]

  OS whatever hybrid asking or even just [TS]

  with the web stuff like can you get [TS]

  everything done with the web browser and [TS]

  use a Chromebook for regular people so [TS]

  you have nothing locally and it's just [TS]

  everything is on the web [TS]

  maybe you can do that case you [TS]

  definitely don't know to need a pc style [TS]

  operating system to do that you did [TS]

  something that can run all the web apps [TS]

  and that's not so far-fetched especially [TS]

  if like there's a slack clients like [TS]

  that so I you know I I don't I wouldn't [TS]

  focus on one single product i want to [TS]

  focus on what we call pcs because it's [TS]

  possible for them to be the future of [TS]

  computing as well just have to look for [TS]

  where where and how the people who [TS]

  really do continue to need a GUI end up [TS]

  getting you know where where do they get [TS]

  chase what car they get chased into [TS]

  because they'll be hanging out there [TS]

  with the command line people because of [TS]

  the command line people are not going [TS]

  anywhere and very often they're the same [TS]

  people and so eventually they'll be [TS]

  joined by the people who need to use [TS]

  like full PC operating systems then [TS]

  everyone else will be trying to book [TS]

  rooms and outlook usually on their on [TS]

  their future of computing devices [TS]

  because that's what they do all day is [TS]

  some people emails and mess with [TS]

  calendars and I voice time and slack so [TS]

  i don't disagree with much of what you [TS]

  said I think I think we're kind of going [TS]

  to different points here basically my [TS]

  theory is that the pc style operating [TS]

  system and the ipad style operating [TS]

  system have this this kind of common [TS]

  ground between the two that they're both [TS]

  kind of aiming for or should be aiming [TS]

  for to solve their problems but i'm not [TS]

  sure they mention that I'm not sure the [TS]

  either product can get to the other ones [TS]

  common ground or like if they actually [TS]

  meet in the middle successfully i'm not [TS]

  sure that would be a good product for [TS]

  either of them but i'm using the same [TS]

  company because the same company would [TS]

  be foolish to make their two products [TS]

  meet in the middle like right so but [TS]

  they could be likely to the ipad meats [TS]

  like Windows 10 in the middle you know [TS]

  me and like when Windows 10 goes goes [TS]

  tablet and the ipad goes pc but the mac [TS]

  would still be hanging out there in like [TS]

  full fledge pc area right however I do [TS]

  think though that we are judging this [TS]

  for the most part from what Apple's [TS]

  doing because Microsoft does crazy [TS]

  things there they are kind of on drugs [TS]

  sometimes they work sometimes [TS]

  they don't get it who knows what they're [TS]

  doing over there sometimes they're [TS]

  pretty cool [TS]

  microsoft is showing that there's still [TS]

  a lot that can maybe be done in pc-style [TS]

  os's and and also there there is a [TS]

  possibility of making more productivity [TS]

  focused tablets like Microsoft is doing [TS]

  a bunch of stuff in that area and it's [TS]

  all wacky and some of it is cool most of [TS]

  it is weird and sometimes it works [TS]

  sometimes it doesn't ok but they [TS]

  actually are moving and they're actually [TS]

  seeing some progress there and some [TS]

  success with their surface stuff and and [TS]

  various windows 10 seconds like we make [TS]

  fun of it but it actually is starting to [TS]

  actually succeed anyway we are looking [TS]

  at apple for this because we know Apple [TS]

  if they put their mind to it would do a [TS]

  better job at both sides of this however [TS]

  i think it's very clear from recent [TS]

  years that Apple's not really stepping [TS]

  on the gas too hard on either side of [TS]

  this they're devoting their resources [TS]

  elsewhere [TS]

  they're focusing on things like the [TS]

  iphone and services and the watch and [TS]

  maybe occasionally the TV and pouring [TS]

  God knows how much effort into this this [TS]

  car thing we are not really stepping on [TS]

  the gas on trying to improve mac OS [TS]

  which seems like almost in maintenance [TS]

  mode and ipad OS / iOS seem like in [TS]

  these productivity style or or you know [TS]

  power user style ways it jumps forward [TS]

  like every two years in some interesting [TS]

  way like that multitasking are split [TS]

  screen or extensions or whatever else [TS]

  but that kind of just sits there for a [TS]

  while they're not really driving quickly [TS]

  towards either of these goals and it's [TS]

  kind of unclear as to whether they even [TS]

  intend to [TS]

  so I think it's kind of a bad example [TS]

  like we we are trying to argue whether [TS]

  these things are possible whether [TS]

  conversions as possible or which one of [TS]

  these is like quote the right or the [TS]

  inevitable the future approach but we're [TS]

  basing that on only what Apple's doing [TS]

  here and I think that's kind of blinding [TS]

  us to and well but I'm what might be [TS]

  possible because if a company was the [TS]

  company had these platforms that really [TS]

  cared a lot about these particular [TS]

  things have to prioritize them higher [TS]

  than what Apple does i think we might [TS]

  see more answers more quickly and I [TS]

  think we might see ID [TS]

  he's tried that we wouldn't have [TS]

  considered and Microsoft is almost doing [TS]

  that like there again they're doing a [TS]

  lot of crazy stuff there's not doing [TS]

  very well most of the time because [TS]

  they're not that great at it but we are [TS]

  seeing like it is possible if you invest [TS]

  heavily in these areas and you really [TS]

  step on the gas in these areas it is [TS]

  possible to both have interesting [TS]

  tablets that could be easy to use and [TS]

  also run productivity software pretty [TS]

  well and it's also possible to do [TS]

  interesting new things with desktops to [TS]

  bring them closer to the tablet world in [TS]

  in ways that make tablet real good i [TS]

  think it's only a matter of for Apple [TS]

  specifically do they care enough about [TS]

  mac OS to make major changes to the OS [TS]

  and to the way it works and we just saw [TS]

  the touch bar everything and that's cool [TS]

  that's not a major change to the to the [TS]

  interaction model or the application [TS]

  model of the OS that's a hardware [TS]

  features that sells new hardware and has [TS]

  some software integration and it's [TS]

  really cool the way to integrate the [TS]

  hardware and everything but that's not [TS]

  fundamentally changing mac OS any [TS]

  meaningful way [TS]

  so today well okay that is not additive [TS]

  it's it but I think Marcus its Marcus [TS]

  Wright is purely added if it's not it's [TS]

  not taking away any complexity for the [TS]

  mac put it that way and you have the [TS]

  weird stuff on the mac like the touch [TS]

  part doesn't also that all is just an [TS]

  additive cool thing right but it does [TS]

  not allow you to avoid or otherwise hide [TS]

  or make move any of the complexity [TS]

  involved in all the things that I was [TS]

  better than the mac exactly and then on [TS]

  the other side I OS on you on the phone [TS]

  the phone is making great strides of [TS]

  course because that's where Apple [TS]

  focuses a lot because that's good they [TS]

  should that's what that's where all the [TS]

  action is like that makes sense but on [TS]

  the ipad what we see it we see the same [TS]

  pattern from them over and over again [TS]

  which is they give the ipad a little bit [TS]

  of attention and they kind of just let [TS]

  it sit for a year or two and they give [TS]

  it a little bit more attention and [TS]

  that's it for a year or two but [TS]

  ultimately the ipad always is playing [TS]

  second fiddle to the iphone that's and [TS]

  that's true of both in Apple's attention [TS]

  also just the design of the OS in so [TS]

  many ways the ipad just a blown-up [TS]

  iphone and it seems like that's mostly [TS]

  okay with everybody and that's fine [TS]

  there are a lot of advantages to doing [TS]

  it that way but if you keep doing it [TS]

  that way i don't see how it ever [TS]

  or replaces more pcs meaningful than one [TS]

  is replacing now you just go to the [TS]

  screen thing which was the thing I [TS]

  always bring up like people don't use [TS]

  pcs with 12 inch screens on their desk [TS]

  if they can help it [TS]

  like maybe in laptops but even then I [TS]

  think if they want to work all day [TS]

  they're hooked up to a bigger screen [TS]

  there's a reason for that but you know [TS]

  bigger screen lets you see more stuff [TS]

  that makes you more productive remember [TS]

  back in the day you remember back in the [TS]

  eighties all the studies about how [TS]

  productivity worker productivity [TS]

  increases when you have bigger CRT on [TS]

  your desk in like this video's as an [TS]

  excuse to demand a massive 21 inch CRT [TS]

  which actually they were massive they're [TS]

  really huge and heavy and people don't [TS]

  understand exactly how big those things [TS]

  were but yeah I mean like how it be both [TS]

  the ipad and on the Mac when one of the [TS]

  things that I was a tribute to the [TS]

  fictional person of apple computer which [TS]

  is not a person but a collection of [TS]

  people but you know it's sort of turning [TS]

  into a person like Apple is hoping that [TS]

  people don't have to do such complicated [TS]

  things can't you do all of your stuff [TS]

  with the ipad apps that we give you look [TS]

  at a simple they are you just need these [TS]

  simple functions just need to be able to [TS]

  crop your images in this way [TS]

  no you don't need to be able to crop [TS]

  with with fixed proportions but also in [TS]

  landscape and portrait you only need to [TS]

  do have mac on the iphone teeth really [TS]

  need to do that when you edit video you [TS]

  really that fine control of how the [TS]

  audio comes in or can you just drag the [TS]

  slider and we'll pick the curve for you [TS]

  like do you really need that much all [TS]

  right how about how would be the [TS]

  precision editor is that precise enough [TS]

  couldn't can't you get your work done [TS]

  just with these simple visit so much [TS]

  easier with the symbol we don't have [TS]

  dialogues all these numbers in them we [TS]

  don't have all these pallets that you [TS]

  have to rearrange and so many pallets [TS]

  you can even have them all on the screen [TS]

  the same time of the pic which ones you [TS]

  want [TS]

  that's just too much like how much [TS]

  simple as guys read can't you get to [TS]

  work that people say sometimes but other [TS]

  times no arm and Apple really doesn't [TS]

  want to give you either like for the max [TS]

  I can't you worked with one cpu most of [TS]

  the time yeah but maybe I want if I had [TS]

  two of them and they both had 12 cores I [TS]

  could cut this portion of my work down [TS]

  in half and it would make me more [TS]

  productive farm but but can't you get is [TS]

  this ok we just buy this one it's like [TS]

  that it's like wishful thinking that the [TS]

  massive simplification that is so good [TS]

  for everybody doesn't fit that they seem [TS]

  to be thinking it'll fit [TS]

  more people into it than it does and is [TS]

  marketed like people just getting shaved [TS]

  off the top and that you know it [TS]

  Apple has shown that they're essentially [TS]

  captive audience when you come up with [TS]

  the new laptops and the 500 always more [TS]

  expensive and they don't have all the [TS]

  ports and features that you may have [TS]

  wanted [TS]

  you're gonna buy him anyway what choice [TS]

  do you have what you do you know vote [TS]

  for a third party candidate go ahead [TS]

  thrown away but i finally got the [TS]

  reference [TS]

  yeah so it so to get like that is that I [TS]

  feel like is where Apple is dropping the [TS]

  ball and isn't there [TS]

  there have been too optimistic too [TS]

  hopeful that every new thing they make [TS]

  whether it's like the new version of [TS]

  imovie were there to keep the old one [TS]

  around for you know that old one that [TS]

  really old car for many many years ago [TS]

  you know all the way up to the hopes [TS]

  that the iOS versions of their apps like [TS]

  the iOS versions of photo editing and so [TS]

  on and so forth [TS]

  would would be enough for anybody so [TS]

  much so that we can even just put them [TS]

  to the mac and be enough for everybody [TS]

  there to like that is probably good [TS]

  strategy for trying to simplify for most [TS]

  people but it just slowly like torturing [TS]

  the people who really do have demanding [TS]

  needs and apple doesn't want to complex [TS]

  if I the software and apple doesn't seem [TS]

  to want to make it so that other people [TS]

  can make similarly similarly complicated [TS]

  software if only because they refused to [TS]

  make an ipad with a bigger screen [TS]

  because you can't fit all Lightroom's [TS]

  palace in there my market was playing [TS]

  with my room on a 28-inch surface to do [TS]

  that gives you enough room for all the [TS]

  rooms crazy pallets I'll do you really [TS]

  need all these controls in my room can't [TS]

  you get away with just the controls that [TS]

  are in like an okay iOS app know you [TS]

  actually can't do this for a certain [TS]

  section of the market you can't and if [TS]

  apple doesn't care about them they are [TS]

  seating that entire market both on the [TS]

  pc and mac to other people now the break [TS]

  microsoft into it to think about [TS]

  microsoft they're kind of in the Apple [TS]

  position and I kind of feel bad for them [TS]

  but kind of not because you know history [TS]

  where even if Microsoft has the right [TS]

  product and even if the product is [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  sometimes you're just not in the right [TS]

  market position are you have the wrong [TS]

  reputation like forces independent of [TS]

  the quality of your product can cause [TS]

  your thing to fail [TS]

  look at apple in the nineties the best [TS]

  operating system the best gooey but it [TS]

  was too late [TS]

  like Microsoft authorities one and wait [TS]

  hang on you're saying OS [TS]

  classic OS was the best operating system [TS]

  in the nineties yeah i'll give you the [TS]

  eighties and maybe the first part of the [TS]

  nineties first few years maybe but leg [TS]

  well what right before until windows [TS]

  2000-2001 ninety nine yes nine trust me [TS]

  I mean sir i'm doing and then like an [TS]

  attack on the tech things you know it's [TS]

  it's borderline but anyway certainly [TS]

  back when it was like the Macintosh vs [TS]

  das and like windows 1.0 and so but [TS]

  anyway not to rehash that sometimes you [TS]

  don't win with the best product right [TS]

  and so even myself gets it right [TS]

  forget it writer than apple like we we [TS]

  are at the whim of the companies that [TS]

  exist and they're in there in trench [TS]

  legacies and their customer bases and [TS]

  where they make them like it's not a [TS]

  perfect system where when someone comes [TS]

  up with the right answer it will just [TS]

  you know it we we have we are stuck with [TS]

  the companies that we have for the new [TS]

  companies that will have to grow to [TS]

  replace them and that is a ugly messy [TS]

  slow process and so it's really hard to [TS]

  tell if Microsoft actually has the right [TS]

  answer like for example if Apple had [TS]

  done with Microsoft's doing with its OS [TS]

  strategy they would probably be farther [TS]

  along because Apple has been in a [TS]

  stronger position because of a little [TS]

  thing called the iphone and they could [TS]

  have made a lot of headway there were as [TS]

  Microsoft was coming away from behind [TS]

  having really gone you know really [TS]

  missed the boat on the mobile thing and [TS]

  having all sorts of problems with their [TS]

  traditional sources of revenue switching [TS]

  around trying to change into a services [TS]

  company like so it's really hard to tell [TS]

  i think about the right answer there [TS]

  either but i love that Microsoft has the [TS]

  luxury of having a completely failed [TS]

  smartphone efforts of the evidence no [TS]

  legacy and smartphones to work with the [TS]

  act [TS]

  well it's just stuff like now that [TS]

  outlet that uh that iOS and Android like [TS]

  sort of run the table [TS]

  what room is there for like it Tyson or [TS]

  whatever the hell that thing is called [TS]

  or you know windows phone [TS]

  all rights and stuff like it again it [TS]

  even if Microsoft had the best [TS]

  smartphone operating system technically [TS]

  a statically user-friendliness or [TS]

  whatever it's so hard to go up against [TS]

  entrenched interests but then we always [TS]

  talk about Apple's we know more about it [TS]

  and if you like apples apples mistake is [TS]

  actually one of naive optimism or [TS]

  wishful thinking and they and they keep [TS]

  plugging away I like they plugged away [TS]

  at you don't need access to the file [TS]

  system for how many years before the [TS]

  iCloud drive like this all just wasted [TS]

  time [TS]

  could be if they were to come up with a [TS]

  better answer that fine you can come up [TS]

  with a better answer [TS]

  not really good to wait six years or the [TS]

  hell it was before before I cloud drive [TS]

  comes out because by that point [TS]

  everybody's already using dropbox or [TS]

  onedrive or whatever that they're using [TS]

  and you know I cloud drive because it's [TS]

  entrenched it's from the platform [TS]

  vendors gonna do okay [TS]

  same thing with Apple music streaming [TS]

  like there isn't an advantage of being [TS]

  the the platform owner but that's that's [TS]

  not a that's not a strong move to take [TS]

  away the file system and all the [TS]

  functionality over form provides while [TS]

  hiding the complexity and then not come [TS]

  up with a suitable replacement and then [TS]

  just bail couple years later and say [TS]

  okay here's here's dropbox this is [TS]

  always the struggle of the iPad and an [TS]

  iOS in general also fits but I think [TS]

  more for the ipad that in order to [TS]

  enable these power uses you you have to [TS]

  give a little on the simplicity and [TS]

  there's always the question of whether [TS]

  you're actually just you know slowly [TS]

  re-implementing the back the mac poorly [TS]

  you know like the whole list joke and I [TS]

  think I don't think that the industry [TS]

  has shown yet that anybody has a really [TS]

  good idea of how to balance those things [TS]

  between like power usability and [TS]

  multitasking and and file access and [TS]

  things like that and simplicity of [TS]

  tablet use i think almost everybody just [TS]

  kind of punch the answer that question [TS]

  of oh well this Apple figure it out [TS]

  they're smart or something some answer [TS]

  like that that's really not an answer [TS]

  it's like usually apple doesn't figure [TS]

  things out that we can't figure out a [TS]

  solution to ourselves like because [TS]

  usually apples made it for the same kind [TS]

  of people outside of apple and if they [TS]

  if we can figure out whether whether [TS]

  solution to a problem can even exist [TS]

  they usually can't either they usually [TS]

  just punted say well [TS]

  yep this is a problem deal with it and [TS]

  we do and it's it's fine [TS]

  look like when the ipad was was first [TS]

  being rumored we were all able what [TS]

  they're gonna do for text input because [TS]

  on-screen keyboards are pretty limited [TS]

  but you can't have like a physical [TS]

  keyboard on the tablet that doesn't work [TS]

  either [TS]

  what are they gonna do and they punted [TS]

  they said all right well here's [TS]

  on-screen keyboard its limited but deal [TS]

  with it and will tell you this external [TS]

  one that was really bizarre [TS]

  and yeah like sometimes these are just [TS]

  kind of unsolvable design problems that [TS]

  you just have to pick one or the other [TS]

  and neither are great and I think the [TS]

  balance between the you know file system [TS]

  access and windowing and multitasking [TS]

  and everything like that and the [TS]

  simplicity of what iOS offers today I [TS]

  just don't think there is a good balance [TS]

  between those two there might be ways to [TS]

  do it better than what the mac and [TS]

  windows do but i still think that if you [TS]

  add that power you were going to ruin [TS]

  the simplicity you're going to add [TS]

  complexity [TS]

  it's good it is going to be one of those [TS]

  design punts and I'm not sure that this [TS]

  is necessarily avoidable but but but i [TS]

  do think it's it might be an unsolvable [TS]

  problem because tablets have been around [TS]

  for awhile now and we still haven't [TS]

  figured out a solution to this problem [TS]

  you know I keep coming back to is I'm [TS]

  listening to you guys I I think about [TS]

  what chris lattner did set a couple [TS]

  episodes ago but it's cool that we can [TS]

  say that he liked what he had said about [TS]

  Swift having and I forget the term we [TS]

  use maybe one of you remembers but like [TS]

  progressive disclosure and yeah exactly [TS]

  where I was going with this where i [TS]

  think by and large market i actually [TS]

  agree with you in that i don't i [TS]

  personally don't see a way to square the [TS]

  circle and in order to make an ipad more [TS]

  usable for more people in a professional [TS]

  capacity [TS]

  I think you would have to take away a [TS]

  lot of the things that make the ipad so [TS]

  great today but progressive disclosure [TS]

  is the thing that's already happening [TS]

  like if you don't do a swipe from the [TS]

  right side of the screen toward the [TS]

  center of the screen [TS]

  would you ever really know about [TS]

  multitasking if you don't hit that that [TS]

  little of I know about it when i [TS]

  accidentally do a plan a game [TS]

  oh yeah and that's where so you know [TS]

  what I'm driving at you know what I'm [TS]

  driving at [TS]

  and actually I think that's such a [TS]

  relevant like it sounds like a side [TS]

  thing i do you actually do gesture so [TS]

  what that's one of the things that is [TS]

  more trouble someone touch devices and [TS]

  less on PCs we're like progressive [TS]

  disclosure is easier on desktop [TS]

  operating system because you're less [TS]

  likely to accidentally trigger something [TS]

  because the [TS]

  input is more precise right and there's [TS]

  more mechanisms right you have an entire [TS]

  keyboard and then you have all the [TS]

  hotkeys and you have a pointing device [TS]

  and two buttons on you can have like [TS]

  alternate clicks and modifier and [TS]

  they're not afraid to put preferences in [TS]

  like hey you want to disable dashboard [TS]

  and disabled hot corners you can't iOS [TS]

  has you know disable multitasking [TS]

  gestures and stuff but some things you [TS]

  just can't turn off on iOS because [TS]

  they're always they're like actually [TS]

  control center i think you can as a [TS]

  preference for that too but yeah that [TS]

  type of that type of things like how do [TS]

  you do progressive disclosure disclosure [TS]

  well on a device where you've already [TS]

  used up like every possible Morse code [TS]

  click combination on the home button and [TS]

  fifty million gestures and there's no [TS]

  keyboard like that kind of already [TS]

  painted themselves into a corner in [TS]

  their ability it in their eagerness to [TS]

  gild the lily of iOS touch interface is [TS]

  not leaving a lot of room for them to [TS]

  win the more complicated stuff in a nice [TS]

  progressive disclosure way [TS]

  yeah I i agree with you and I I just [TS]

  can't help but wonder is there something [TS]

  that I'm not seen today that would lend [TS]

  itself to having the ipad feel like a [TS]

  more i'm gonna use the word professional [TS]

  but I can think of a better way better [TS]

  work for but more professional device [TS]

  and I think about if you had told me [TS]

  during the iOS 6 or 7 days [TS]

  oh you know there's gonna come a time [TS]

  that you can have this floating window [TS]

  that plays video that you can shimmy [TS]

  around the screen and enlarged and [TS]

  shrink and swipe off to the side to kind [TS]

  of hide it for a minute I would've [TS]

  thought you were bonkers and I would [TS]

  have wondered you know how do you [TS]

  activate that well how do you make how [TS]

  to make it go away what do you do with [TS]

  this thing and it turns out [TS]

  picture-in-picture the ipad is awesome [TS]

  and similarly multitasking is pretty [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  it's pretty crappy switching between [TS]

  apps on the little multitasking app [TS]

  switcher but by and large it's pretty [TS]

  awesome and I don't know that I would [TS]

  have seen a way to do that prior to [TS]

  having actually seen the way it was [TS]

  implemented so I i do agree with the [TS]

  both of you but I can't help but wonder [TS]

  what is it that we are not thinking of [TS]

  that would make something in the spirit [TS]

  of progressive disclosure possible and I [TS]

  i don't know i have no specifics but it [TS]

  makes me wonder what's coming you know [TS]

  what's coming in june [TS]

  no you're not thinking of it but i'd [TS]

  totally i'm thinking of it like there's [TS]

  something else was getting with Apple [TS]

  being wishful in hoping that the simple [TS]

  applications and the [TS]

  limited form factors in interface venues [TS]

  that they have provided on the ipad and [TS]

  and increasingly on the Mac will be [TS]

  sufficient for everybody's needs they [TS]

  are intentionally not doing a bunch of [TS]

  obvious things for a long time they [TS]

  intentionally didn't do the obvious [TS]

  thing of giving you up a pencil [TS]

  basically Apple pencil for a long time [TS]

  they avoid that because it's like that's [TS]

  an additional complication [TS]

  most people don't need it maybe we can [TS]

  get along without it and you know we had [TS]

  to endure many many years of people [TS]

  selling hot dogs on a stick that you [TS]

  know you on your iPad big stubby [TS]

  artificial finger thing and like it took [TS]

  so long for them to get through their [TS]

  skulls like people want to draw on these [TS]

  things they're buying these terrible [TS]

  devices that do it for guns to make a [TS]

  pencil and they did finally right there [TS]

  are so many obvious things they can do [TS]

  they can make a much bigger form factor [TS]

  if you want to see the microsoft already [TS]

  gone the whole product that you can rip [TS]

  off ideas from or get inspired from you [TS]

  can do more things with multitasking and [TS]

  simply splitting the screen you can do [TS]

  more things with hot keys and with the [TS]

  little floating windows like that this [TS]

  tons of obvious things they can do and [TS]

  you know the the thing tomorrow we'll [TS]

  talk about something about are you know [TS]

  and then my the first was to interview [TS]

  that I did just after iOS came out i [TS]

  think it may be the very first one after [TS]

  it was clear there was some crossover [TS]

  between them it was like is it easier to [TS]

  make the mac more like iOS 42 or to make [TS]

  us more like the mac like it easier to [TS]

  simplify mac OS or brings capabilities [TS]

  of the mac ios and I think it at said [TS]

  then I think now is much easier to add [TS]

  the capabilities of the mac to iOS [TS]

  without messing up that is to the [TS]

  reverse because as soon as you start [TS]

  trying to make the mac to be like iOS [TS]

  you totally destroyed usefulness for the [TS]

  people who want to use it for like the [TS]

  current use cases and there's no [TS]

  replacement for that if on the other [TS]

  hand you take iOS which is a clean slate [TS]

  and was much cleaner back then than it [TS]

  is now but a clean slate and tried to [TS]

  get let people do the more complicated [TS]

  stuff with like he said progressive [TS]

  disclosures it is a much easier thing to [TS]

  do and you get a chance to do it in a [TS]

  different way over there and while [TS]

  you're doing that you're not screwing up [TS]

  professionals who presumably can still [TS]

  use your max and if you're doing a good [TS]

  job on iOS you're also not screwing up [TS]

  people who never use that functionality [TS]

  and arguably that's what Apple has been [TS]

  doing by making the ipad [TS]

  throw by making the 12-point whatever [TS]

  enjoy bet by making the pencil by adding [TS]

  multitasking but boy did take them a [TS]

  long time and they're still stubborn [TS]

  about you know about going all the way [TS]

  like I I don't know what I don't know [TS]

  what they're holding out for out there [TS]

  waiting for I know maybe they're waiting [TS]

  for people to die and have us to change [TS]

  but i agree with Marco and that like the [TS]

  use cases aren't going to change people [TS]

  would like to do them with less [TS]

  complications but if they can't do it [TS]

  unless complications they just want to [TS]

  do them period like though they you know [TS]

  they have to do them because it is part [TS]

  of their job and if you don't give them [TS]

  a simpler way to do it they will limp [TS]

  along with the more complicated wait [TS]

  until and unless somebody could be [TS]

  Microsoft could be anybody else gives [TS]

  them away to literally do the same [TS]

  really complicated jobs with less and [TS]

  less concerns with you know less [TS]

  fighting with the Machine and apple [TS]

  still seems like like like Marcus like [TS]

  give them a little bit does this move [TS]

  the needle is the ipad really Pro device [TS]

  now because we made a slightly bigger [TS]

  one and give you a pencil it helps it [TS]

  doesn't hurt right but my service to do [TS]

  is like what are you even doing you know [TS]

  what was the the mean you're like a [TS]

  little baby and the 28 inch Microsoft [TS]

  service studio that's how Apple Apple [TS]

  Apple should feel but am I the [TS]

  impression I get from the [TS]

  personification of Apple as they still [TS]

  really wish people didn't have to do [TS]

  such complicated things computers it [TS]

  seemed like there was put out by [TS]

  people's actual needs we are sponsored [TS]

  this week by hello fresh for thirty-five [TS]

  dollars off your first week visit [TS]

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  I've tried hello fresh and it is exactly [TS]

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  thirty-five dollars of your first week [TS]

  thank you very much too hello fresh for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  I think you are right that it is easier [TS]

  to advance the ipad probably then then [TS]

  two then to lock down or dumb down the [TS]

  mac and that is a you know your argument [TS]

  about like you know leaving that behind [TS]

  you know how bad that would be versus [TS]

  bring along my people that makes a lot [TS]

  of sense i still think it's going to be [TS]

  hard we still don't really know if the [TS]

  ipad can do these things well and we [TS]

  still don't see massive efforts from [TS]

  apple in the software Department we see [TS]

  interesting efforts in the harbor [TS]

  Department like as like an image i [TS]

  mentioned past shows like the ipad pro [TS]

  9.7 is amazing and the top line is also [TS]

  amazing for people who like even bigger [TS]

  ones but like a 9.7 being like the kind [TS]

  of like average mainstream ipad it is [TS]

  amazing hardware like it the the [TS]

  hardware is better than ever as is [TS]

  usually the case the hardware is better [TS]

  than ever [TS]

  they're doing fine on the hardware but [TS]

  the software is harder to do because [TS]

  it's it's a more significant and [TS]

  trickier design challenge and it takes a [TS]

  lot of investment to to massively move [TS]

  software around and there's also there's [TS]

  too much as i want to mention here that [TS]

  I that are I think problems big problems [TS]

  for the ipad one is the application [TS]

  ecosystem [TS]

  apps that are that are like used by [TS]

  professionals or content creation or [TS]

  just a lot of productivity apps are just [TS]

  really really mature and stable and [TS]

  usually much more financially healthy on [TS]

  the mac and when these applications have [TS]

  tried to move to ipad they've had pre [TS]

  mixed success some of them work many of [TS]

  them don't [TS]

  many of them work like you I wise to [TS]

  some degree with a lot of work but then [TS]

  failed business wise you know they don't [TS]

  sell enough and don't forget money and [TS]

  so the companies aren't interested in [TS]

  investing in the further or can't afford [TS]

  to bring over more of their apps or [TS]

  whatever else that's a huge problem with [TS]

  the app store and with customer [TS]

  expectations for pricing for these [TS]

  things and that significantly hurts the [TS]

  ipad and there's no end in sight to that [TS]

  really the like there's there's been a [TS]

  couple things apple has tried to maybe [TS]

  help moving a little bit like on now you [TS]

  can do subscriptions and that's cool but [TS]

  it doesn't seem like that's really [TS]

  helping a lot of that they could totally [TS]

  tie up the entire market for pro user [TS]

  who routinely spend their day using a [TS]

  12.5 inch screen like those people like [TS]

  great i can now switch my work ipad and [TS]

  get all nobody does that nobody sits at [TS]

  the desk doing any complicated app on a [TS]

  12.5 inch screen like the screen size [TS]

  alone i feel like is a disqualification [TS]

  even if you can get lightroom like [TS]

  exactly lightroom exactly how it is like [TS]

  it's you know s10 on your iPad when you [TS]

  choose to use it on a 12.5 inch screen [TS]

  when you can use it on a five-time [TS]

  nobody would deny it I disagree [TS]

  I just must have to be part of Bobby's [TS]

  like the whole use cases portability I [TS]

  got to do is on the go or whatever like [TS]

  it's the portability of thing but I'm [TS]

  but portability is as a only concern for [TS]

  people who are not currently sitting in [TS]

  a dark room at a desk plugging away [TS]

  their computers working as he thinks our [TS]

  are working on photoshop all day are you [TS]

  know like or even if you just doing big [TS]

  cad drawings or just assembling a big [TS]

  presentation like some people need to be [TS]

  on the go and portability is important [TS]

  yada yada but everything mark was [TS]

  talking about all these applications [TS]

  with like strong financial foundations [TS]

  and you know they they charge a lot of [TS]

  money and people routinely upgrade and [TS]

  stuff like I feel the only company that [TS]

  destroying that line is maybe Microsoft [TS]

  with its office applications i have a [TS]

  feeling still subsidized but they're the [TS]

  best [TS]

  this is an omni which is still selling [TS]

  expensive mac apps and still making [TS]

  partner apps that also work on iOS four [TS]

  when you want to do the same stuff but [TS]

  portably but almost everybody else is [TS]

  like like how are you gonna get the guy [TS]

  off the desk when you're only offering [TS]

  them a 12.5 inch screen like there's so [TS]

  many remaining hardware barriers to [TS]

  success in this area that Apple just [TS]

  like Marco said like didn't see an end [TS]

  in sight because he's like I don't see a [TS]

  ball coming out of the 28 inch ipad [TS]

  doesn't make any sense it's not an ipad [TS]

  anymore you're right it's not something [TS]

  else but you're never going to get those [TS]

  people off their desks if you force them [TS]

  to use a portable form factor all the [TS]

  time and it's not there's also a lot to [TS]

  be said for using the scene application [TS]

  from a 12 inch laptop all the way up to [TS]

  a 30 inch display on a desktop like you [TS]

  you can use the same at you can write [TS]

  one app for the PC operating system you [TS]

  can have it show up for all those screen [TS]

  sizes and you can have people both [TS]

  portably and at their desks using this [TS]

  one app so it's easier to develop that [TS]

  app it's easier to sell it people who [TS]

  buy or not to buy one copy of it like [TS]

  that's a huge advantage that's true but [TS]

  I think I think you guys are are over [TS]

  emphasizing your own needs and not [TS]

  considering the needs of other kinds of [TS]

  users and there is a distinct advantage [TS]

  to being a single machine person and [TS]

  that machine could be a 13 inch iPad [TS]

  there's a distinct advantage to never [TS]

  having to rearrange your windows every [TS]

  time you plug in an external there's a [TS]

  distinct advantage to having a simpler [TS]

  experience just because cad doesn't work [TS]

  on a 12 inch screen which I bet it could [TS]

  but it certainly wouldn't be as easy as [TS]

  a 40 inch screen just because cat [TS]

  doesn't doesn't mean everything doesn't [TS]

  and I think a lot of people value having [TS]

  one machine that they can carry anywhere [TS]

  I mean look at me I i generally speaking [TS]

  for most of my life had a single laptop [TS]

  that was my everything computer and yes [TS]

  there were compromises for sure but I [TS]

  preferred having one machine that always [TS]

  had all of my stuff always because that [TS]

  was better to me and that was it that [TS]

  was a trade-off I was willing to make [TS]

  and just because a cat [TS]

  operator for designer what-have-you [TS]

  doesn't necessarily want to make that [TS]

  trade that doesn't mean that everyone [TS]

  doesn't want to make that trade and I [TS]

  mean look at all the people that that [TS]

  have macbook airs that may or may not [TS]

  plug them into external monitors all the [TS]

  time like those are small displays they [TS]

  aren't even read nightmare may not be [TS]

  dry because they may or may not be dry [TS]

  to you never know and they can keep your [TS]

  liquids away from your computer's kids [TS]

  anyway so I i don't i'm not trying to [TS]

  say that you're wrong John or Marco but [TS]

  i think that that there is a spectrum [TS]

  here that you're not really giving [TS]

  credit that Marcos context was [TS]

  specifically about pro applications that [TS]

  are expensive there have a foundation on [TS]

  the mac cells people who use them for [TS]

  work and those are the people you can't [TS]

  pry away from their desks with the 12.5 [TS]

  inch screen right [TS]

  obviously there's tons of people again [TS]

  like I said we're just doing you know [TS]

  they're just messing around without [TS]

  looking sending emails and doing web [TS]

  browsing and writing stuff up and [TS]

  talking with other people and chat [TS]

  applications like by all means like a [TS]

  man it's just a question of whether you [TS]

  want a laptop or hardware keyboard also [TS]

  stuff like that and even even within the [TS]

  realm of your single machine being an [TS]

  ipad with a two terabyte flash drive in [TS]

  it you can sit down you disconnected up [TS]

  to a massive 28 inch touchscreen and [TS]

  have like service to do when you're [TS]

  sitting and when you pick it up an ipad [TS]

  gets back to marco was saying ability to [TS]

  sell one app that scales a different [TS]

  screen sizes like you can if you buy [TS]

  lightroom on the pc and you have a 5k [TS]

  imac or a 5k external screen assume your [TS]

  Wi-Fi routers in nearby [TS]

  oh and you connected to your laptop [TS]

  right but but again that is an [TS]

  experience that the ipad does not offer [TS]

  at all [TS]

  you've got a 12.5 inch screen and that's [TS]

  what you're stuck with whether you're at [TS]

  a desk or not you can't sell one version [TS]

  of your application that can you can use [TS]

  all the different screens no matter how [TS]

  you want to do what you want to single [TS]

  machine multiple machine or whatever the [TS]

  ipad does not address that at all for [TS]

  hardware reasons that you know it and [TS]

  that's all that's over saying like good [TS]

  specifically talking about high-end [TS]

  people you will never dislodge them in [TS]

  you know until like the ARV our realm [TS]

  comes and things are being projected [TS]

  onto the redness or something and we [TS]

  don't care big screens are and this is [TS]

  all a moot point but for now anyway the [TS]

  hardware limitations of I [TS]

  the outfit and the software and the [TS]

  application ecosystems that Apple has [TS]

  chosen for itself are necessarily [TS]

  limiting that Microsoft has made [TS]

  different choices but they have so many [TS]

  other challenges that are unrelated to [TS]

  the quality or potential of their [TS]

  products so we're still just sitting [TS]

  here patiently waiting for Apple to make [TS]

  its next progression of the ipad but it [TS]

  just seems like a blitz to be dragged [TS]

  kicking and screaming into into the [TS]

  future and in the meantime they've been [TS]

  chopping out the legs underneath the mac [TS]

  and helping people get all their work [TS]

  done and even simpler situations on the [TS]

  mac and if I can't have fun dealing with [TS]

  third-party monitor when the other [TS]

  problem so you know I mentioned the the [TS]

  applications issue which is what got us [TS]

  on this big tangent but the other [TS]

  problem Casey is what you do we were [TS]

  just talking about it is really nice to [TS]

  have one machine for lots of reasons [TS]

  lots of people have one machine for [TS]

  price concerns alone [TS]

  that's a huge concern because a decent [TS]

  SPECT ipad is not cheap like if you buy [TS]

  an ipad it's any good [TS]

  you're lucky to be out of there for less [TS]

  than 600 bucks and that's without any [TS]

  accessories if you actually want a [TS]

  keyboard or a cover or anything it's so [TS]

  easy to spend like eight nine dollars [TS]

  and it just to get what you consider [TS]

  like a mid-range I've had with you know [TS]

  a couple of accessories that they kind [TS]

  of are required him to make it very [TS]

  useful to you a lot of people just [TS]

  cannot justify $500,000 on this [TS]

  in-between device when they already have [TS]

  a phone which covers most of their ultra [TS]

  mobile and ultra-simple needs and they [TS]

  already might have a computer a laptop [TS]

  and so people who want only one device [TS]

  that one device so often now i'm not [TS]

  going to say I'm not even gonna say most [TS]

  of the time I'm not even sometimes but [TS]

  that one device often can't be an iPad [TS]

  because that one day and assuming the [TS]

  phone is always gonna be there because [TS]

  it doesn't mean I'm talking 1 divided [TS]

  between iPad or computer so often that [TS]

  can't be an iPad because of things like [TS]

  we were just complaining about hardware [TS]

  limitations of just made things don't [TS]

  make it in this size you can plug in an [TS]

  external screen or whatever else there [TS]

  are so many limitations with iPads that [TS]

  if you need to do something outside of [TS]

  what is considered and [TS]

  and optimized for by Apple you hit a [TS]

  brick wall and you just can't it's like [TS]

  well that the answer that you just can't [TS]

  do that or you hit what appears to be a [TS]

  brick wall and there might be some kind [TS]

  of power user app to work around that [TS]

  but you might not know that as a typical [TS]

  I've had user or you might have an app [TS]

  where you might not want to spend the [TS]

  money for the app or whatever else so [TS]

  that they're just there are so many hard [TS]

  brick walls that you hit when trying to [TS]

  do any kind of edge case thing or even [TS]

  some pretty common things on iPads and [TS]

  iOS and if you're one device is a [TS]

  computer it might be less fun or harder [TS]

  or more complicated to use but there are [TS]

  far fewer of those brick walls the [TS]

  computer is like it's you know just [TS]

  partly from legacy partly from [TS]

  architecture partly from hardware [TS]

  ecosystem the computer is the everything [TS]

  device it can do so so much especially [TS]

  when combined with a phone because then [TS]

  like the phone covers your ultra mobile [TS]

  your camera and then the computer covers [TS]

  like everything else for so many people [TS]

  if they can only have or if they only [TS]

  want or they can only justify paying for [TS]

  one device besides their phone [TS]

  the idea that it would be a tablet is [TS]

  not high on their list because they they [TS]

  need to do something or they want to do [TS]

  something that they prefer the way [TS]

  something is done that can only be done [TS]

  on a computer and that trying to an iOS [TS]

  either impossible or really it just [TS]

  fight you the whole time and that's what [TS]

  you were saying earlier about wanting to [TS]

  maybe you know get a small laptop and [TS]

  instead of your your retina ipad mini [TS]

  sorry Stephen again there are these all [TS]

  these walls that you hit trying to do [TS]

  things with iOS that while many people [TS]

  can do great work on iOS and love doing [TS]

  it [TS]

  I think they are minority you know [TS]

  everyone can always point to you know [TS]

  power users like the teaching who like [TS]

  use the ipad late for everything and you [TS]

  can point to everyone has like a [TS]

  relative or a friend who's like a novice [TS]

  at using computers and the ipad is the [TS]

  only computer but there's a lot of [TS]

  people in between and for so many of the [TS]

  people in between a pc style operating [TS]

  system and [TS]

  see style hardware is the only way they [TS]

  can get their needs salt and one device [TS]

  today [TS]

  well that's true and again this could [TS]

  change in the future but I think [TS]

  changing that would require so many [TS]

  changes and expansions to both iOS and [TS]

  ipad hardware that that just seemed very [TS]

  unlikely that apple would ever do and [TS]

  that's why I think it's fairly unlikely [TS]

  that we're going to get to that point I [TS]

  think it's much more likely that we're [TS]

  going to keep going where we are for a [TS]

  while which is Apple strategy is [TS]

  basically we're gonna keep selling you [TS]

  these devices that are kind of in this [TS]

  big Venn diagram or all the circles [TS]

  overlap like a third of the way with [TS]

  other circles and and we just want to [TS]

  know apples a hardware company they want [TS]

  to sell you more hardware so Apple is [TS]

  perfectly fine have the strategy be 0 [TS]

  for you you like parts of this device in [TS]

  part of this device you should buy both [TS]

  yeah like that's I have a feeling that [TS]

  maybe the strategy for a long time but [TS]

  as long as the strategy [TS]

  the ipad is never going to replace the [TS]

  mac and this shouldn't mix if there's a [TS]

  future for any kind of mainstream [TS]

  mainstream and power computing on Apple [TS]

  devices the ipad better not replace the [TS]

  mac unless it has significant changes [TS]

  but again i don't see it just seems very [TS]

  unlikely that the Apple that we know [TS]

  today would do the kind of changes to [TS]

  both ipad OS and hardware that would [TS]

  enable it to fully replace the mac it [TS]

  must be tough and imagine how stinky it [TS]

  is to have to worry about charging your [TS]

  computer every day and and got imagine [TS]

  how crummy it would be to have to like [TS]

  carry on like that like a brick that you [TS]

  need to charge it that's like big and [TS]

  heavy imagine you know for me I can just [TS]

  charge wherever I have a USB port and [TS]

  imagine how crummy it would be if any [TS]

  time I wanted to get on the internet i [TS]

  have to have Wi-Fi [TS]

  ok yes i have a phone in my pocket but [TS]

  but i can just flip on my little [TS]

  cellular switch and suddenly i have [TS]

  Wi-Fi in the device amusing imagine how [TS]

  crummy it would be to not be able to [TS]

  tear your keyboard off the device [TS]

  because he just really don't need it you [TS]

  know you're not gonna need it for a [TS]

  while [TS]

  imagine how crummy it would be to feel [TS]

  like you can't always bring your [TS]

  one device every where you're going [TS]

  because it's this big computer and yeah [TS]

  okay they're smaller than they used to [TS]

  be and there's certainly more portable [TS]

  than they used to be but man it would [TS]

  stink if I felt if I felt like I had to [TS]

  have this like big like laptop bag help [TS]

  barbaric is that what kind of pants you [TS]

  putting an ipad into a curiosity [TS]

  actually I can't fit a mini in in a [TS]

  couple of my jackets not my pants but my [TS]

  jackets but I just cars got got laptops [TS]

  in every pocket of all day but I mean [TS]

  imagine imagine how boring it would be [TS]

  to have to use a mac every day when you [TS]

  can just touch and swipe swipe your way [TS]

  in and through getting worked on [TS]

  I'm being silly and i started the show [TS]

  by saying I don't really know there's an [TS]

  ipad there if there's a place and in my [TS]

  life for an ipad anymore but I [TS]

  absolutely understand how it would be [TS]

  possible to prefer an ipad for all the [TS]

  reasons I don't like it and i think that [TS]

  the three of us are too preoccupied with [TS]

  our own needs and our own desires and [TS]

  our own wats in and I think there are [TS]

  plenty of people that are that that [TS]

  would prefer an ipad pro be that a 10 [TS]

  inch or 12 inch or 9.7 what have you [TS]

  that that would prefer for all those [TS]

  things and the teaching is an example of [TS]

  this and yes I acknowledge that he is [TS]

  like way on the other side of the [TS]

  spectrum but i don't think a lot of his [TS]

  desires are that unusual to have an LTE [TS]

  equipped device to have only one device [TS]

  to have to manage again like you Marco I [TS]

  agree that the phone is just a given to [TS]

  have something where the software is [TS]

  always the software he has it always [TS]

  looks the same regardless of what yo [TS]

  it's because the device is always the [TS]

  same size [TS]

  it's a guy I feel like there's so many [TS]

  advantages to living in ipad only life [TS]

  that are disadvantages to me their [TS]

  disadvantages to you too but they are [TS]

  advantages to some people [TS]

  sure and I think we're I think we're all [TS]

  dis all three of us are discounting that [TS]

  there's plenty of real work that can be [TS]

  done [TS]

  maybe not Cat maybe not development [TS]

  maybe video editing maybe not maybe [TS]

  podcast editing maybe not but there's a [TS]

  lot of real work that can be done on [TS]

  ipad today [TS]

  and all the rumblings I've heard is that [TS]

  things are going to get a lot more [TS]

  interesting in the next few months so [TS]

  imagine what will be possible tomorrow I [TS]

  don't think any of us are just coming at [TS]

  all that you have been listening to us [TS]

  we've been talking specifically about hi [TS]

  I'm we are we totally concede that the [TS]

  vast majority were only talking about [TS]

  the ion that's all we're talking about [TS]

  but but my point is that your high-end [TS]

  it when you say high-end it it it [TS]

  implies i'm trying to think how to [TS]

  describe this I feel like you feel like [TS]

  the high-end is the Empire State [TS]

  Building into me the high-end is the [TS]

  mighty black stop and that Pete that [TS]

  there are people that came out that in [TS]

  this analogy is falling apart already [TS]

  but I i think that you that you guys are [TS]

  treating this mythical high-end is this [TS]

  on it's about it doesn't matter if it's [TS]

  a real thing [TS]

  okay you're treating this high-end is [TS]

  this thing that could never be [TS]

  accomplished by a single touch devices I [TS]

  don't think that's the case [TS]

  no I'm not trying at all i'm saying the [TS]

  opposite i'm saying the ipad could [TS]

  totally do all this stuff Apple has been [TS]

  reluctant to extended to do so [TS]

  yeah yeah i mean because like the [TS]

  hardware power is there the the will of [TS]

  people to want to carry an ipad into [TS]

  these things on it is there it's it's [TS]

  really just a very strong problem of the [TS]

  ipad OS really not being a advanced [TS]

  enough and and being too high friction [TS]

  for the way a lot of people want to work [TS]

  and they like me anyways we will need to [TS]

  work on the app store and upgrades and [TS]

  you know and the hardware flexibility [TS]

  and like it like it [TS]

  the apples are making steps in that [TS]

  direction remember they weren't making [TS]

  any steps and direction for a long time [TS]

  and that was frustrating it was like it [TS]

  was static and but they say they have [TS]

  been making moves and as Marco [TS]

  characterize it there sporadic moves and [TS]

  they move a little bit each time and [TS]

  they hang out in between and if they [TS]

  move faster would be more dramatic but [TS]

  you know we don't really if they have to [TS]

  choose whether to put the resources [TS]

  behind the next iPhone or the next iPad [TS]

  like the iphone is movable yeah it's not [TS]

  a choice [TS]

  you're right somebody you know so who [TS]

  knows maybe they will accelerate or [TS]

  whatever but like I'm heartened by any [TS]

  kind of progress because it's as if they [TS]

  a you know they cannot with the mac pro [TS]

  that was a weird trash can and I waited [TS]

  a year and then they let you have 2 CPUs [TS]

  and 1g [TS]

  view and waited a year and then they [TS]

  upgraded the GPU to be not really old [TS]

  and waited a year that's not great [TS]

  essentially what we got if it's better [TS]

  than what we got so on the ipad where [TS]

  it's like oh finalists have multitasking [TS]

  and then wait a year [TS]

  oh here's a pencil to and then wait a [TS]

  year like this is good this is you know [TS]

  but it's not as good as it could be but [TS]

  it's better than you know the high end [TS]

  of the mac or the like [TS]

  nope that's not a thing anymore just buy [TS]

  what we sell thanks to our sponsors this [TS]

  week [TS]

  hello fresh audible and away we will see [TS]

  you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental Jonathan [TS]

  only research Margo and Casey would [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  know today p dot and if your twitter [TS]

  follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment are see that [TS]

  Syracuse it [TS]

  so today scoop German has written a post [TS]

  saying that Apple well let me just read [TS]

  the headline apple is said to work on [TS]

  Mac chip that would lessen Intel role [TS]

  and I think that actually has changed i [TS]

  think it was a different headline [TS]

  earlier but integrates a the slug for [TS]

  the original headline Apple developing [TS]

  new mac ship in test of Intel [TS]

  independence which is certainly a little [TS]

  more aggressive which is not true an [TS]

  inaccurate headline so that's why they [TS]

  changed it but they never change the [TS]

  slugs because people make terrible CMS's [TS]

  that don't let you change the slug or if [TS]

  they do let you know never changes them [TS]

  like the people i think people don't see [TS]

  you or else I know safari heightened by [TS]

  default but come on people anyway so [TS]

  there's a delightful autoplay video [TS]

  that's going on here which is the most [TS]

  frustrating thing in the entire world [TS]

  but anyway the the article in short [TS]

  seems to say hey there's this t1 ship [TS]

  that was done to power the touch bar [TS]

  that's arm-based what if you're like [TS]

  power nap for example there's this new [TS]

  chip that apparently been codenamed t310 [TS]

  because that matters but anyway this [TS]

  this mythical t310 ship could handle [TS]

  power nap and wake up and do those sorts [TS]

  of things then go back to sleep and [TS]

  because arm just zips power that would [TS]

  be flawless and perfect so that's the [TS]

  way forward is is we can slowly encroach [TS]

  on Intel's territory by making an ARM [TS]

  chip that's used when convenient and [TS]

  then use the intel chip for all the [TS]

  other time so it's an interesting [TS]

  premise it's certainly not something [TS]

  that I really considered but i like the [TS]

  idea that I don't know if I really buy [TS]

  that it would be flexible enough short [TS]

  of like virtualization should be a [TS]

  terrible idea and ruin most power [TS]

  savings that it would be flexible enough [TS]

  to just do anything on this problem this [TS]

  mythical arm processor but you know [TS]

  maybe like via the extension framework [TS]

  and I saw somebody else talk about this [TS]

  earlier the extensions maybe could you [TS]

  know have something have an extension [TS]

  that's our compiled forearm and the rest [TS]

  of the app is compiled for until I don't [TS]

  know but it's certainly a fascinating [TS]

  idea and every sign that i can see all [TS]

  of the tea leaves are pointing to apple [TS]

  at least exploring getting rid of Intel [TS]

  and using their own chips even if it's [TS]

  not anytime soon so John what do you [TS]

  think there's a weird story because like [TS]

  the chip that powers the touch bar like [TS]

  its it sense it only makes sense that [TS]

  there will be a successor to that ship [TS]

  that powers such bar on the next [TS]

  generation things that maybe will be a [TS]

  little better in a bunch of waste like [TS]

  short granted and whatever that chips [TS]

  code-named is fine and we already know [TS]

  it's a little arm CPU and run some [TS]

  little mini thing of iOS and you could [TS]

  use it to do smart things when the intel [TS]

  cpu is asleep right where the story gets [TS]

  fuzzy is like alright so the power nap [TS]

  stuff like first of all I'm not sure [TS]

  that stuff your computer does when it's [TS]

  essentially a sleeping you're not using [TS]

  it is a really big source of power draw [TS]

  like like idle power people on your list [TS]

  anymore laptop reviews how long can I [TS]

  leave this laptop asleep before the [TS]

  battery trends like that's not that's [TS]

  not a very common use case like oh I [TS]

  need to be able to leave it in my house [TS]

  for a week in sleep mode and come back [TS]

  and have a hundred percent battery [TS]

  well it's not gonna happen nobody even [TS]

  test that I and it's not a common use [TS]

  case know it does happen it's like now [TS]

  it's like a month because what they do [TS]

  is after I think like eight hours or [TS]

  whatever if a vital time and I believe [TS]

  you can tweak that time out with some [TS]

  kind of you know any ram command it goes [TS]

  into full hibernate mode like I didn't [TS]

  happen to do so even a full hybrid [TS]

  battery string that's why you don't [TS]

  bring a test of fire island because [TS]

  you're a true friend that's why i'm [TS]

  ready i'm pretty sure that these the [TS]

  idle time has been about a month since [TS]

  like the 2012 retina macbook pro right [TS]

  but let's not use case they care about [TS]

  so we're putting a lot of investment [TS]

  into making that use case even better [TS]

  like now it's two months [TS]

  like who cares that's not a selling [TS]

  point it's not a big thing you know and [TS]

  the second the idea that that this thing [TS]

  would be able to do the stuff that [TS]

  happens during power nap parent app like [TS]

  the computers basically asleep but it [TS]

  wakes up the real live cpu periodically [TS]

  to do stuff in a lower clock lower power [TS]

  type way doesn't turn on the screen that [TS]

  and doesn't turn on the fan in the cases [TS]

  of modern computers with fans I think's [TS]

  right but it's still running the real [TS]

  software in a limited capacity it and it [TS]

  has to be running something that has the [TS]

  ability to do I owe to the disk or you [TS]

  know to the SSD essentially these you [TS]

  can't receive your email [TS]

  due time machine backups if you can't do [TS]

  I owe to the disk it i have a hard time [TS]

  believing that they would be an arm CPU [TS]

  in there they could not wake up the [TS]

  intel cpu at all which is still the main [TS]

  see Beauty system but wake up and [TS]

  somehow run code for your mail [TS]

  application to fetch mail and do I owe [TS]

  to your disk all the Intel CPU is asleep [TS]

  even if you're compiling extensions with [TS]

  armed binaries and shipping them off to [TS]

  the little arm CPU to run and like and [TS]

  that that little cpu is going to have [TS]

  access to IO and it's a it's such a [TS]

  weird situations like what are you even [TS]

  optimizing for so it makes me look at [TS]

  the story and think there's totally [TS]

  accessories t1 it is better and more [TS]

  capable and will do more things like [TS]

  perhaps listening for a sit-down my max [TS]

  like fiu Syria and the same way but will [TS]

  it do everything will do all that power [TS]

  nap stuff and third-party applications [TS]

  to run arbitrary code in the background [TS]

  without waking the intel cpu I mean it [TS]

  could something this is technically [TS]

  impossible but it seems like that is not [TS]

  a use case that Apple we would be [TS]

  investing money in whereas I think they [TS]

  would invest money in you know making [TS]

  serie better or have it only listen it [TS]

  always listening for stuff for have it [TS]

  be able to do more sophisticated things [TS]

  having to do with the management the [TS]

  system but once it starts changing into [TS]

  actual applications running code whether [TS]

  they be first part of your third party [TS]

  without waking up the intel cpu and [TS]

  doesn't seem like it's worth be the [TS]

  hardware OS and software investment to [TS]

  make that work because the benefit is [TS]

  not something you would sell about [TS]

  things that people would notice [TS]

  yeah i think this is this is a yet [TS]

  another case where a rumor article that [TS]

  that you know has good sourcing gets [TS]

  probably the gist of the facts correct [TS]

  but the story wrong it seems like this [TS]

  is not like Apple trying to reduce their [TS]

  depends on intelligence chip supplier it [TS]

  seems much more likely that it's like [TS]

  well we are putting this chip in in [TS]

  these machines for the touch bar anyway [TS]

  so we have this whole little embedded [TS]

  arm computer in these machines that uses [TS]

  almost no power like work were included [TS]

  hardware anyway so can we have it do [TS]

  anything else can we have it be more [TS]

  useful than what it's doing now while [TS]

  the computer is not needing it for [TS]

  anything else because its community we [TS]

  have all this [TS]

  great stuff in here let's figure out if [TS]

  they can if they can help us out any [TS]

  other way i think it's probably gonna [TS]

  you know the facts here are plausible it [TS]

  is probably truly there to do very [TS]

  little power tasks what those low-power [TS]

  tasks include is another story and and I [TS]

  don't think this is at all indicative [TS]

  that Apple is slowly gonna cut Intel out [TS]

  and and make our max like they might be [TS]

  doing that in the future who knows but i [TS]

  don't think this is related to that this [TS]

  it seems like a totally separate project [TS]

  or or task here because it seems like [TS]

  what they're doing here is more [TS]

  effectively utilizing the resources they [TS]

  already have in these computers and are [TS]

  already building in any way and it would [TS]

  be such a technical challenge and such a [TS]

  hurdle and so much complexity to have [TS]

  this chip meaningfully take over lots of [TS]

  what the intel cpu is doing any kind of [TS]

  like major application level thing like [TS]

  I think you mentioned you know that it [TS]

  would be probably an extension and you [TS]

  know that would be an arm extension [TS]

  hey if it's successful third parties at [TS]

  all we were just the way Apple's App [TS]

  implanted it is probably like you know a [TS]

  little extension kind of thing that is [TS]

  native arm code that can run here and [TS]

  John I share your concern about like [TS]

  what does have access to the disc [TS]

  somehow like at how does that work how [TS]

  does how does the you know how does it [TS]

  interact with or all the buses and Wi-Fi [TS]

  and write operations like it's like a [TS]

  dual cpu system with two different CPU [TS]

  instructions that's what you get you [TS]

  could you could do it like this is all [TS]

  technically possible but that's held an [TS]

  investment and I just don't see the [TS]

  benefit right exactly so that's why I [TS]

  think it's more likely that this is a [TS]

  real story but that the task is going to [TS]

  do we're going to be very very limited [TS]

  and it's not a big deal [TS]

  it doesn't mean anything about Apple's [TS]

  relationship with Intel for the future [TS]

  of possible our macbooks that is all [TS]

  totally separate discussions and it [TS]

  seems much more likely that this is [TS]

  mostly a non-issue something that they [TS]

  might mention in a keynote for two [TS]

  seconds that we would immediately forget [TS]

  about it could be headlining feature if [TS]

  they if they use it right so one example [TS]

  is you could do a Windows 10 style face [TS]

  recognition thing not to let you in [TS]

  because that's terrible because people [TS]

  just print out a picture [TS]

  your face and get access to your [TS]

  computer but even just something as [TS]

  simple as hey it's always listening for [TS]

  you and there's proximity detectors to [TS]

  see when you're close by and when you [TS]

  sit down in front of your sleeping [TS]

  computer it does face recognition with [TS]

  the camera to realize who you are to [TS]

  bring you your login prompt like even if [TS]

  it was on a different user so you don't [TS]

  have to like pick the user or do a thing [TS]

  like that would be a good use of a [TS]

  fairly capable a low-power cpu that has [TS]

  access to some things as access to the [TS]

  camera has access to his own proximity [TS]

  detectors access to touch ID and the [TS]

  secure Enclave and can do stuff with the [TS]

  touch bar that doesn't involve okay I'm [TS]

  taking over power not to mention like [TS]

  the power nap the reason it works and it [TS]

  works even better now is because you can [TS]

  make these intel cpu running super [TS]

  underclock great turning off most of the [TS]

  course like they're pretty efficient [TS]

  like a sky like in super duper low-power [TS]

  mode with half of the chip disabled is [TS]

  actually pretty good you can let like [TS]

  yeah the most of the power is going to [TS]

  be from your Wi-Fi radio trying to do [TS]

  your time machine backup and all your [TS]

  SSD access the cpu is not the problem [TS]

  there so even if you're going to let [TS]

  power not happen at all [TS]

  you're not worried oh I can't have this [TS]

  intel cpu running it at 600 megahertz [TS]

  with one core enable doing my thing it's [TS]

  because the SSD and the Wi-Fi are going [TS]

  to overall that anyway but but anyway [TS]

  back to the little arm chip if that the [TS]

  future i just described like face [TS]

  recognition proximity detection touch ID [TS]

  blah blah thats that's a keynote a [TS]

  keynote mobile feature right there and [TS]

  it's not a big deal technically speaking [TS]

  and they already have the hardware there [TS]

  it's an easy win it's a cool thing is [TS]

  something microsoft store already done [TS]

  apple can pretend they don't know that [TS]

  and just pretend they invented it and [TS]

  we'll all when AA and just like we like [TS]

  sitting down to use touch ID to unlock [TS]

  our computers we like sitting down and [TS]

  shared environment having know that it's [TS]

  us and wake from sleep and shows our [TS]

  password prompt even if someone else was [TS]

  logged in so it thinks oh shit [TS]