The Talk Show

180: ‘Yay or Nay to Their POV’, With Special Guest Matthew Panzarino


  Matthew pans arena welcome welcome back [TS]

  to the show [TS]

  thank you sir thanks for having me Wow [TS]

  to tough week to have a show there's no [TS]

  news it [TS]

  yeah we was all just is headed there go [TS]

  on vacation man yeah it's been like that [TS]

  every day so we are recording on tuesday [TS]

  the 31st so we are literally talking [TS]

  like two hours after Apple posted [TS]

  quarterly results so we can actually do [TS]

  like a new show it's like we're like on [TS]

  on CNN or something talking about [TS]

  breaking news it right at this week's [TS]

  news today or whatever yesterday [TS]

  yesterday summarizing the quarterly [TS]

  results [TS]

  I think it's time I my summary is more [TS]

  or less iphone went back to growth which [TS]

  was contrary to some predictions that [TS]

  that that last year's dip was was the [TS]

  sign that that we reached pic pki phone [TS]

  people say he's got more iphones last [TS]

  quarter than they've ever sold in any [TS]

  quarter including the two year ago1 when [TS]

  their sales went bananas because of the [TS]

  iphone 6 and 6 plus my ipad sales are [TS]

  down a little bit year-over-year but [TS]

  they're reasonably saying well last year [TS]

  they came out with the brand new iPad [TS]

  pro this year there were no new ipads in [TS]

  holiday quarter and they're still [TS]

  respectable 13 million mac sales were up [TS]

  a little [TS]

  rebounding I think showing such good [TS]

  signs of probably the the new macbook [TS]

  pro sales being pretty good who Apple [TS]

  watch they don't break those out but on [TS]

  the conference call it sounded to me [TS]

  reading the summary that they said it [TS]

  was a record-breaking quarter and that [TS]

  makes sense because it's a holiday [TS]

  quarter and I think that it's if if they [TS]

  did break those watch sales out i think [TS]

  the holiday quarter is going to be a [TS]

  huge spike just like in the old days the [TS]

  way ipod tour and then last but not [TS]

  least services apples favorite word of [TS]

  the last two years is up at a fair [TS]

  summary [TS]

  yeah I think so I mean I think there's [TS]

  some question [TS]

  about that other category in like the [TS]

  overall other category there was there [TS]

  was a dipping growth but right that was [TS]

  like the general consensus is the watch [TS]

  did find in the quarter right i mean [TS]

  it's pretty much the only watch doing [TS]

  anywhere near decent right now so it's [TS]

  not too hard to to say that [TS]

  yeah it seems to me like I mean there's [TS]

  a lot of I mean this is a little off [TS]

  topic of apples quarter but it that on [TS]

  point with the watch that i'm starting [TS]

  to see some serious repeated pessimism [TS]

  about Fitbit that fit i think might be [TS]

  in today as a company might be in [TS]

  trouble [TS]

  yes yeah I think that's pretty clear [TS]

  from what we've been hearing so far I [TS]

  think that there's a significant change [TS]

  in direction how you refer to here in [TS]

  Silicon Valley as a pivot we're coming [TS]

  for them by gathers they they are [TS]

  definitely and I don't think anybody [TS]

  really thinks that it's completely about [TS]

  the products and i think there's plenty [TS]

  of quality issues they've had over the [TS]

  years and they've never been you know [TS]

  super highly rated as far as durability [TS]

  and longevity and quality and they had a [TS]

  couple of like actual real problems with [TS]

  quality but i think it's just a tough [TS]

  category and they just didn't quite [TS]

  figure it out you know [TS]

  yeah it's just it it's okay [TS]

  they recruited you know they stand up [TS]

  they stand alone as the only independent [TS]

  company that's making fitness trackers [TS]

  that that is worth even talking about [TS]

  but it doesn't seem like they got it [TS]

  over the hump and it's i think in [TS]

  particular Apple watch is is doing them [TS]

  in that [TS]

  yeah I mean there's a heavy market in [TS]

  this casual market of people who want to [TS]

  spend like let's say somewhere around [TS]

  two three hundred dollars to track their [TS]

  fitness it seems to me like Apple watch [TS]

  is starting to get real attraction [TS]

  outside the early adopters you know [TS]

  market and I i think it's that fits [TS]

  expense [TS]

  yeah aiden is sort of the you know you [TS]

  bought a phone they used to be I mean [TS]

  maybe what 45 years ago you bought a [TS]

  phone make phone calls and maybe write [TS]

  text messages and you got all these apps [TS]

  with it you know you also the stuff and [TS]

  then you come to love [TS]

  and pretty soon you're not making phone [TS]

  calls at all your texting everybody with [TS]

  you know messenger or whatever but I [TS]

  think it's the same kind of concept you [TS]

  know so people are saying hey you know [TS]

  now the price is getting to where I [TS]

  don't mind spending tuner box getting [TS]

  this thing and getting all these other [TS]

  things with it but it's a great you know [TS]

  so solid fitness tracker that you can do [TS]

  all these things so yeah have category [TS]

  and yes you mentioned a fit you know was [TS]

  traveling alone on the backs of that one [TS]

  pnl right right so if you break out the [TS]

  Apple watches a business especially that [TS]

  first launched quarter when it launched [TS]

  I mean that stuff takes ramp time you [TS]

  know and when it's you're relying on [TS]

  yourself in your own revenues and [TS]

  whatever you know venture capital [TS]

  obviously you have you don't have [TS]

  infinite runway [TS]

  yeah you know yeah and i think i will [TS]

  come back to this it on another topic in [TS]

  a bit but I i I'm as guilty of it [TS]

  well maybe not has anybody but I know [TS]

  I'm guilty of it and I think others who [TS]

  write about technology are seriously [TS]

  guilty of being to show too focused on [TS]

  the short term and not realizing how [TS]

  long some things need to really get [TS]

  mainstream acceptance you know like just [TS]

  smartphones period you know it's like [TS]

  remember that the what was the initial [TS]

  goal it was like 10 million iphones in [TS]

  the first year of sales something like [TS]

  that and and there would you know they [TS]

  made it but it's like if you think about [TS]

  that now they sold 78 million phones in [TS]

  three months [TS]

  this last one order and whereas that you [TS]

  know back when it first came out 10 [TS]

  years ago it was you know we're hoping [TS]

  for 10 million in 12 months it it takes [TS]

  a long time you know and a part of it is [TS]

  just the simple common sense and I mean [TS]

  other people have written about it but [TS]

  just there are people like me who will [TS]

  go and buy an iphone on the day it comes [TS]

  out but most people even if they were [TS]

  curious and i still remember it with the [TS]

  original iphone where like people on the [TS]

  street would see me using it and they [TS]

  would say right without knowing who I am [TS]

  they would just say that iphone right [TS]

  and they were obviously aware of it [TS]

  they probably have one now but the it [TS]

  took years for them to be comfortable to [TS]

  say okay i'll get one because I've you [TS]

  know it there's like a comfort factor of [TS]

  Noah and I think the watches on that [TS]

  trajectory [TS]

  mmm yeah i think so I mean I think I've [TS]

  definitely had it right now it's it's [TS]

  exited that phase for me it's not like [TS]

  people see it on my wrist and go you [TS]

  know like oh my god is an Apple watch [TS]

  what the dude say is oh you know I'm [TS]

  thinking like it are used to using it [TS]

  tonight which is an interesting way to [TS]

  phrase it right and i think that that's [TS]

  partially from the narrative you know I [TS]

  guess you could call it media narrative [TS]

  or whatever [TS]

  hmm that the watch isn't all that useful [TS]

  long-term that there's initial the [TS]

  initial wave of like oh hey a book [TS]

  around and then eventually get tired of [TS]

  it and put it away and I definitely know [TS]

  that there are plenty of people that [TS]

  don't wear those anymore whatever right [TS]

  there's gonna be that with any gadget [TS]

  doesn't fit either what the company [TS]

  tried to sell you it was or what you [TS]

  know whatever their success or failure [TS]

  and communicating what it was was or [TS]

  your own vision of what how it would fit [TS]

  into your life didn't quite match up [TS]

  with how it actually did right and so I [TS]

  think that we've exited that phase and [TS]

  now we're in a phase where the people [TS]

  that are still wearing it are advocating [TS]

  in ways that are more specific [TS]

  they're like yes i love it because x y [TS]

  know right it's not like oh yes i love [TS]

  it and then like what do you like about [TS]

  it wow look at all these things and this [TS]

  thing and that they don't think we're [TS]

  out of that you were into these are the [TS]

  practical benefits it offers me [TS]

  oh yeah I have all my calendar stuff on [TS]

  there like that's enough for most people [TS]

  or I have you know it's a great fitness [TS]

  tracker you know I go to the gym every [TS]

  day all right I cycle or swim or you [TS]

  know etc etc people are figuring out the [TS]

  things that work for them and so it's [TS]

  it's more about the precise benefits on [TS]

  an individual basis versus the entire [TS]

  you know bolus of benefits that could [TS]

  theoretically apply to you you know and [TS]

  i think that that that could be where [TS]

  the sustained growth is coming from [TS]

  versus the initial wave of who knows [TS]

  yeah it's also true that [TS]

  I mean we knew this this isn't something [TS]

  we needed that to hear from tim cook on [TS]

  the conference call today with you could [TS]

  tell just by going to the apple store [TS]

  and trying to buy an Apple watch that [TS]

  they were backordered foremost last [TS]

  square or still are i think that you [TS]

  know they could make them fast enough [TS]

  which is a good sign I guess [TS]

  yeah i mean i think initially you know [TS]

  you never know whether they just didn't [TS]

  know how many to make or what or whether [TS]

  they didn't know what the right mix was [TS]

  right there [TS]

  additionally there was a lot more people [TS]

  buying steel then maybe they thought and [TS]

  so there was no sin credibly hard to get [TS]

  steel ones for a long time but now I [TS]

  think they're getting the mix figured [TS]

  out so if they have that makes figured [TS]

  out that eliminates that and now you are [TS]

  looking at [TS]

  yeah they're just having a hard time [TS]

  keeping up with in which theoretically [TS]

  should be a good thing [TS]

  on the flip side they're keeping up with [TS]

  it so there are selling as many as they [TS]

  could [TS]

  which is you know not great for your [TS]

  shareholders or whatever you want to [TS]

  call it now with iphone sales rebounding [TS]

  and actually growing and breaking a [TS]

  record it did even with that even saying [TS]

  it to record it's clear it's it's a few [TS]

  fractions of a percentage you know I [TS]

  think I think it's 78 million they sold [TS]

  in 12 years ago that was the previous [TS]

  record was like 74 million phones or [TS]

  something like that so the e the years [TS]

  of raw fifty percent growth [TS]

  year-over-year are over and i think that [TS]

  you know common sense would tell you why [TS]

  it's because the smartphone is sort of a [TS]

  at a saturated product I mean not that [TS]

  there's no room for growth and in [TS]

  certain markets but for the most part [TS]

  over the last 10 years we've reached the [TS]

  point where almost everybody who might [TS]

  get a smartphone has a smartphone right [TS]

  well i mean i think it looks like there [TS]

  was a decline in China but every other [TS]

  market grew yeah which is that's pretty [TS]

  solid [TS]

  I mean China is its own Beast you know [TS]

  it's incredibly difficult to do business [TS]

  there as Apple has found over the years [TS]

  you know and we only know the public [TS]

  stuff we don't know that many challenges [TS]

  they come up against with the government [TS]

  and everything else that don't quite [TS]

  make it to the page [TS]

  but outside of that every other region [TS]

  was growing and I think that people [TS]

  think of saturation and replacement [TS]

  cycles and things like that the people [TS]

  that do you think of those things are [TS]

  not eat they're not communicating it [TS]

  well or I should say that they [TS]

  communicated fine in there in their vain [TS]

  but it's hard to characterize those [TS]

  things and turn them into very human you [TS]

  know sentences or or ideas or concepts [TS]

  for people that can help them understand [TS]

  where the growth is coming from and [TS]

  whether sustained growth will come from [TS]

  because it's like you could say hey you [TS]

  know ever every ex years people are [TS]

  going to replace their iphone and that [TS]

  changes based on you know major design [TS]

  changes right sort of major design [TS]

  change here the replacement cycle may be [TS]

  lowered by thirty percent and then you [TS]

  can also go to like you know there's new [TS]

  people being born so people are turning [TS]

  what 12 13 or 14 now that were you know [TS]

  just born when the iphone came out and [TS]

  they're getting phone so we're getting [TS]

  into like the first wave of like I don't [TS]

  new iphone consumers first-generation my [TS]

  phone consumers so there are lots of [TS]

  factors it's a very like liquid thing [TS]

  and everybody treats it like oh yeah [TS]

  everybody has a phone one at you know [TS]

  has won once once that's it but i think [TS]

  apple is looking at growth in terms of [TS]

  all of these variables and and the [TS]

  projections show you know revenue [TS]

  projection guidance wise you know it's [TS]

  like 51 I guess 253 billion something [TS]

  like that you know that they're [TS]

  projecting which is not crazy high but [TS]

  not like by any means and so I think [TS]

  that you know I think that they feel [TS]

  that they've got the growth out there [TS]

  yeah in those pockets and I think that I [TS]

  i think a lot of people thought you know [TS]

  long story short last year for the [TS]

  calendar year [TS]

  iphone sales were down year-over-year [TS]

  the success seemingly didn't sell as or [TS]

  didn't sell as well as the six and i say [TS]

  that my only hesitation in saying that [TS]

  is is my presumption that most iphone [TS]

  sold our the the new you know the [TS]

  top-of-the-line new model and because [TS]

  you don't know that they don't break [TS]

  that [TS]

  down for competitive reasons so in [TS]

  theory right you know they could have [TS]

  sold you know the iphone SE could [TS]

  secretly be the best selling iphone but [TS]

  anecdotally it certainly seems that that [TS]

  doesn't seem the way most people by the [TS]

  the best 1i think some people saw last [TS]

  year's slight dip and thought you know [TS]

  whether it was just to be dramatic and [TS]

  you know make clickbait predictions but [TS]

  you know so does the beginning of a [TS]

  trend as opposed to the counter-argument [TS]

  was just that it looks like a dip [TS]

  because the six was such an outlier in [TS]

  terms of their having been so much [TS]

  pent-up demand for a quote unquote [TS]

  bigger iphone who and I think this you [TS]

  know the numbers they just announced for [TS]

  the iphone 7 certainly back that up that [TS]

  it's it was just an outlier [TS]

  yeah i think so i think the plus I guess [TS]

  Tim said on the call that the iphone 7 [TS]

  plus was the highest portion in was a [TS]

  higher portion of the mix that fast [TS]

  yeah so that you know people are getting [TS]

  acclimated to the larger phones that [TS]

  increases their profit margins obviously [TS]

  because the larger phones don't cost [TS]

  them you know whatever percent learn her [TS]

  whatever percent more to make it [TS]

  increases their asp their average [TS]

  selling price which is always a guidance [TS]

  point that like analysts love to look at [TS]

  because it means that for every every [TS]

  amount of ounce of effort they put into [TS]

  marketing or whatever the case may be [TS]

  the return is higher [TS]

  you know because you get the individual [TS]

  unit that's a higher higher price and it [TS]

  really cost you roughly the same amount [TS]

  to sell that as it does anything else [TS]

  you know it's like growing a tall tree [TS]

  versus a short tree and they're both [TS]

  trees right now so there's there's a [TS]

  definite like positivity around that I [TS]

  think I've been seeing that the bigger [TS]

  phones are people love them they're [TS]

  taking them up and they're they're [TS]

  buying more than ever it is interesting [TS]

  and you know i think apple is pretty [TS]

  good at this stuff but it's always [TS]

  interesting to see them admit that they [TS]

  don't that their their estimates were [TS]

  off and it's you know like you said that [TS]

  they've admitted that the the mix of the [TS]

  plus to the non plus 7 even know that [TS]

  regular iphone 7 they said was the [TS]

  best-selling model the plus sold better [TS]

  this year than it has a guest in the [TS]

  previous two years and write that is a [TS]

  mix of them you know then versus the [TS]

  other right [TS]

  I makes me wonder in particular if the [TS]

  the the camera in particular I it when [TS]

  it's got me right i mean yeah sure part [TS]

  of it is just getting used to bigger [TS]

  size for the camera has to drive like X [TS]

  percent of it like I'm not I'm not [TS]

  pulling out a number let's say thirty [TS]

  percent of the decisions to buy that [TS]

  phone [TS]

  we're always got the better camera so [TS]

  let's get that one right [TS]

  yeah and it seems like something that it [TS]

  you can see it when you're in the store [TS]

  like if you go into store and you're on [TS]

  the fence over whether to get an iphone [TS]

  7 or 7 plus starting this year [TS]

  you can tell just by looking without [TS]

  even trying the camera it looks [TS]

  different right it's it's double the [TS]

  size it looks like it you know you can [TS]

  see that it has like optic that the [TS]

  previous years that's the plus models [TS]

  had the optical image stabilization with [TS]

  the starting with the six it was forced [TS]

  stills only in a success added it for [TS]

  video that's a great feature especially [TS]

  for video I mean it's it i add it's [TS]

  almost unbelievable how good some of my [TS]

  little home family videos come out now [TS]

  uh yeah because of image stabilization [TS]

  on video but you can't see it in the [TS]

  store so it's just a bullet point and [TS]

  everybody is I think it it you build up [TS]

  an immunity to bullet points because [TS]

  every time you buy anything whether it's [TS]

  a car or a toaster oven [TS]

  you know it everything has bullet point [TS]

  yeah here's the features that your [TS]

  coffee maker has 12 cups you know it has [TS]

  a large coffee right makes coffee [TS]

  whereas you just look at the back of the [TS]

  seven plus and you could get the idea [TS]

  that the camera is better on this one [TS]

  than the smaller one [TS]

  it seems visceral because you just look [TS]

  at it I can't help but think that that [TS]

  actually successfully bumped sales of [TS]

  this which in turn makes me think [TS]

  yeah that if you know [TS]

  it they may not be done we this might [TS]

  just be the start of the bigger more [TS]

  expensive iPhone having tangibly better [TS]

  camera technology just because it it [TS]

  seems like it's proof that it can drive [TS]

  sales [TS]

  I think you're you're right at there are [TS]

  two things I think are really driving [TS]

  this i have a hundred percent agree that [TS]

  the difference could actually you know [TS]

  the physical difference the way it looks [TS]

  could definitely make a big difference [TS]

  but you're right on there in it i know [TS]

  there will people be people listen to [TS]

  this and they'll laugh and be like oh [TS]

  yeah I do you know people just look at [TS]

  the back of it and going oh yeah this [TS]

  one's bigger got a bigger camera thingy [TS]

  on and i'm gonna buy that but he I think [TS]

  people would be shocked especially [TS]

  people that listen to this show which [TS]

  you know this subset of people that are [TS]

  in the world that listen to the show you [TS]

  know how much higher technical savvy [TS]

  than average probably do a lot more [TS]

  research on products and average you [TS]

  know if you were doing a demographic [TS]

  survey i think that none of these things [TS]

  would be surprising right but i think [TS]

  people underestimate very heavily how [TS]

  little research people do when they go [TS]

  to buy stuff in a store like they'll go [TS]

  to the store to get a phone and not [TS]

  having looked at a single thing online [TS]

  or asked anybody or whatever and they'll [TS]

  just go and they'll just like I want the [TS]

  best along X or Y personal axis you know [TS]

  best camera or most storage or whatever [TS]

  honestly whatever most recent problem [TS]

  they had is probably how they pick and [TS]

  I've seen this myself I used to work in [TS]

  big-box retail and you know have sold a [TS]

  lot of different things over the years [TS]

  but the one of the times i was selling [TS]

  like digital cameras especially this is [TS]

  like early in the early digital camera [TS]

  is very early and you know somebody [TS]

  comes in is looking like a magic against [TS]

  sony mavica which one of the ones that [TS]

  took the floppy disks [TS]

  yeah you would throw those in there and [TS]

  you know they honestly nine times outta [TS]

  ten all they want is which one has the [TS]

  biggest number on the box they would [TS]

  literally look at the boxes and they go [TS]

  all this one has 10 that one has eight [TS]

  and you know well yes but the one that's [TS]

  I mean if you're an honest person you [TS]

  know the one that's eight that slightly [TS]

  less is actually better for you because [TS]

  I don't know it has this swivel thing [TS]

  and you really need that for whatever [TS]

  you're doing but if you don't have that [TS]

  person there [TS]

  that decision is getting made based on [TS]

  the number on the box right [TS]

  hey that's ten this was aight i'll get [TS]

  the 10 right i have the money that's [TS]

  fine we'll go and that i think that [TS]

  people make those decisions that way a [TS]

  lot more than most people think and even [TS]

  though apple store employees are [TS]

  theoretically better informed than your [TS]

  average big-box retailer they don't have [TS]

  the time Apple stores are more crowded [TS]

  than ever people are making decisions [TS]

  without intervention by an employee and [TS]

  just asking the employee to set it up [TS]

  for them and hopefully the employee [TS]

  maybe intervenes at some point if they [TS]

  feel it's the wrong product for them and [TS]

  tries to switch the something that is [TS]

  but there's no guarantees [TS]

  so I think that literally the physical [TS]

  difference in the camera could have make [TS]

  a real big difference for people because [TS]

  of those reasons and it's it seems silly [TS]

  or obvious or whatever but people are [TS]

  silly and obvious when they buy you know [TS]

  that's just remove them and vast [TS]

  majority of consumers that way and I [TS]

  think it's also telling how long Apple [TS]

  has stuck with the shot shot on iphone [TS]

  ad campaign you know and and you know [TS]

  shelter said it when he was on my show [TS]

  forget it was last year that the first [TS]

  time two years ago where I I think name [TS]

  drop by the I asked him like dude I [TS]

  think it was two years ago because i [TS]

  think last year would have it was so [TS]

  obvious it would it wasn't too late to [TS]

  ask but I just said like it do you [TS]

  consider apple one of the leading camera [TS]

  companies in the world and his answer [TS]

  was the leading camera company in the [TS]

  world i mean threats totally how he sees [TS]

  you know it the importance of the camera [TS]

  on the on the phone and I really did [TS]

  there's no other explanation I can think [TS]

  of for why this the mix of plus 2 non [TS]

  plus would grow up this year because one [TS]

  of the big complaints about that the [TS]

  iphone 7 is that it quote unquote looks [TS]

  just like the iphone 6 and success that [TS]

  it's otherwise who cares i just it seems [TS]

  like the obvious [TS]

  yeah and it's it's a it's a great lever [TS]

  to get people to buy that bigger phone [TS]

  even though they don't want the bigger [TS]

  screen you know because people are often [TS]

  just shocked by how large it is [TS]

  physically when they hold it you know if [TS]

  I had somebody if I have a7 now but like [TS]

  I off [TS]

  use the seven plus special traveling and [TS]

  so if i had to somebody there homey and [TS]

  this is big you know if they've never [TS]

  used one real one but it's a testament [TS]

  to how how driven by camera people are [TS]

  no don't put up with that [TS]

  so to speak and knowing how hard the [TS]

  camera team at apple had to push to make [TS]

  this thing even work right that dual [TS]

  camera thing up which is a fairly it's a [TS]

  really significant technical you know [TS]

  achievement and it's another company had [TS]

  done this I mean Apple you know they [TS]

  took their own horn a lot right but it's [TS]

  another company had done this they would [TS]

  have to 10 times as much as it's [TS]

  actually a very very very very difficult [TS]

  technical problem what they achieved [TS]

  here and it out of everything in the [TS]

  camera the the excuse me out of [TS]

  everything in the phone [TS]

  the camera is really the only thing [TS]

  that's pushing the processor to its [TS]

  limits into its absolute peak limits [TS]

  right now you know I mean you know a [TS]

  game or whatever the case maybe they [TS]

  know what the limits are they work [TS]

  within those but most games that on [TS]

  average that people play are really [TS]

  pushing that hard games is probably the [TS]

  number to category but above that and up [TS]

  far above anything else that most people [TS]

  do on their phones or most of the [TS]

  capabilities of the phone which are [TS]

  pretty well known by now that the camera [TS]

  in that net seven-plus with its dual [TS]

  lens and in twin capture and blending of [TS]

  the pair of photos and all of the stuff [TS]

  that it does it really is pushing very [TS]

  very hard that a series chip so it's [TS]

  like a leading driver of the power the [TS]

  chip power that's in the phone because [TS]

  that chip does and has done everything [TS]

  it needs to do for most people for a [TS]

  very long time you know for several [TS]

  generations [TS]

  yeah and so it's it's driving forward [TS]

  the processing capability and power of [TS]

  the phone and I think it's not driving [TS]

  sales along with it and it's it was [TS]

  clearly instrumental in the poor [TS]

  treatment or is you know at like why you [TS]

  know why did portrait mode and the [TS]

  dual-mode thing ship this year I'm [TS]

  part of it was I think that the camera [TS]

  engineering just the camera itself took [TS]

  a long time I think it's complicated and [TS]

  just the the the algorithm of how are [TS]

  you going to use these two lenses for [TS]

  zooming and and etc etc but i think [TS]

  another part of it too was that it was [TS]

  coincident with the a-series chip [TS]

  getting fast enough that you can do this [TS]

  on the fly from what I know about how [TS]

  long it took them to build this and [TS]

  obviously everybody knows that it didn't [TS]

  ship with the phone right [TS]

  it shipped the ships of a week later [TS]

  right I don't think that was true [TS]

  teaching and now i think it was [TS]

  necessary [TS]

  yeah it was it was absolutely necessary [TS]

  for them to actually make it work like [TS]

  finish it and get it to work and that [TS]

  doesn't happen if you've been able to do [TS]

  it for a processor generation right let [TS]

  you use it you know literally Matthew [TS]

  bands are you know where the first [TS]

  person I knew who had access to it [TS]

  because you got a pre-release version of [TS]

  it at least a couple of days ahead of [TS]

  the beta coming out and you had like a [TS]

  nice little exclusive on on techcrunch [TS]

  with with adorable pictures of your your [TS]

  daughter but they were really want a pic [TS]

  they chose well because you're you know [TS]

  you've got a background in photography [TS]

  so you're not just sitting there [TS]

  shooting pictures of here you know I [TS]

  don't know your desk or whatever [TS]

  yeah but I think you could I even when [TS]

  it first came out and they let us use [TS]

  the beta there were performance problems [TS]

  with it that that happens been ironed [TS]

  out and now it's just there is a sort of [TS]

  it just works you put in portrait mode [TS]

  the preview is live the phone doesn't [TS]

  get hot and it just works [TS]

  yeah that stuff is being iterated on as [TS]

  we speak like you and I are talking [TS]

  right now it's four o'clock [TS]

  you know I'm sure the camera team is [TS]

  still working on updates to that thing [TS]

  right because it's it's a living [TS]

  document you know in terms of the way [TS]

  that it performs the edge detection gets [TS]

  better every iteration and the the blur [TS]

  effect gets more organic and more [TS]

  natural you know that they're able to [TS]

  push that processor via optimization [TS]

  because obviously the hardware and [TS]

  changed right so they are able to [TS]

  optimize the process is further so [TS]

  they're able to do more and more complex [TS]

  calculations on that but it really is [TS]

  bleeding edge stuff like there no nobody [TS]

  else is pushing this hard and people [TS]

  were very quick they don't want to [TS]

  published that preview and then [TS]

  eventually when when we did that like [TS]

  the review the phone and stuff like that [TS]

  we were very quick to say all you know [TS]

  what this model or that model from some [TS]

  other brand has been doing the years at [TS]

  yada it's true that other brands have [TS]

  done this show blur thing but not in [TS]

  this way and not to this level of [TS]

  sophistication and to be honest even [TS]

  though some of the results were kind of [TS]

  hinky up front you know what's gonna get [TS]

  better because they're dedicated to [TS]

  making it better and they have they know [TS]

  this is a primary driver of purchases [TS]

  whereas a lot of these other phones it [TS]

  was a one-off gimmick to try and sell [TS]

  phones that quarter and really is going [TS]

  to get no significant updates in the [TS]

  future you know and it's it's a shame [TS]

  but nobody else is really driving like [TS]

  that Samsung works sort of backwards [TS]

  right from like oh you know what did [TS]

  what do we think the market wants this [TS]

  quarter [TS]

  let's try to produce that and then you [TS]

  know they're i'm not saying that they're [TS]

  their products are not you know solid or [TS]

  you know decent or whatever if they [TS]

  don't explode but there isn't there is a [TS]

  drive there to get that kind of stuff [TS]

  right because they know that this is the [TS]

  thing that people want it's not it's not [TS]

  what they say they want which is more [TS]

  megapixels or you know sharper images or [TS]

  were these crude terms that they used to [TS]

  describe it it's actually they want [TS]

  their pictures look more like pictures [TS]

  and that's a really nebulous thing until [TS]

  you you know you sort of figure out how [TS]

  to define that I think there's been a [TS]

  lot of time trying to define that for [TS]

  people [TS]

  yeah I also think it is the clearest [TS]

  path that I can think of because I I [TS]

  fail and certain other forms of [TS]

  imagination of how can the iphone [TS]

  continue to get better and there are [TS]

  some little things you know like a like [TS]

  the true tone color that the ipad pro [TS]

  has that would be great to eventually [TS]

  have it on the iphone to there's you [TS]

  know but that I can't see the display [TS]

  quality quality wise getting radically [TS]

  better so much so that it would that's [TS]

  why you get a new phone [TS]

  everybody's Reuters rumors are rampant [TS]

  that the industrial design is going to [TS]

  change and they're going to get rid of [TS]

  the head [TS]

  forehead and just sort of go from top to [TS]

  bottom left to right edge-to-edge [TS]

  display and visually that would be very [TS]

  striking if it looks super cool then I [TS]

  could see that driving sales but how [TS]

  many do you know after you do that how [TS]

  does it keep going [TS]

  whereas the camera can continue to get [TS]

  better every 12 months maybe not in a [TS]

  radical way because you run up in the [TS]

  limits of physics but you know and lens [TS]

  optics but in a tangible way and that if [TS]

  you're only if you're on like a two or [TS]

  three-year upgrade cycle you can get a [TS]

  radically better camera every time you [TS]

  upgrade to a new phone back to me could [TS]

  continue to drive sales about where we [TS]

  are right now for the iphone four years [TS]

  to come [TS]

  yeah yeah there's there's not much else [TS]

  for them to chip away at and I think [TS]

  there will be new opportunities in other [TS]

  categories that may even involve the [TS]

  camera you know they are augmented [TS]

  reality or VR whatever the case but as [TS]

  far as like the on-device components [TS]

  there they're pretty well along towards [TS]

  a you know diminishing returns right so [TS]

  yeah i agree Cameras Cameras a primary [TS]

  driver they're all right let me take a [TS]

  break here and thank our first sponsors [TS]

  a new sponsor very excited about this [TS]

  company company ministry of supply [TS]

  ministry of supply makes performance [TS]

  dress clothes [TS]

  what does that mean well it was launched [TS]

  by a bunch of a group of it former [TS]

  engineers engineering students from MIT [TS]

  and they make fabrics performance [TS]

  fabrics the type of things that are on [TS]

  like gym clothes but they use them to [TS]

  make a dress clothes like stuff that [TS]

  you'd wear to work [TS]

  they are breathable they are flexible [TS]

  they are way more comfortable totally [TS]

  feel different and even less resist [TS]

  they're even more resistant to wrinkles [TS]

  should say less resistant more resistant [TS]

  they sent me some samples they sent me a [TS]

  jacket very nice jacket and a very nice [TS]

  dress shirt the dress shirt is is a [TS]

  really really nice feels great looks [TS]

  great and even when i took out of the [TS]

  box my wife even commented on [TS]

  shirt she was like well what is that you [TS]

  know because it just looks a little [TS]

  different not like in terms of like [TS]

  weird but just sort of like he's like a [TS]

  nice Sheen to it was very very nice [TS]

  they also sent me some socks just socks [TS]

  and they're very comfortable socks so [TS]

  here's what a is one of the examples [TS]

  men's future forward dress shirt I think [TS]

  that's the one they sent me it regulate [TS]

  your body temperature based on your [TS]

  surroundings keeps you warmer when it's [TS]

  cold keeps you cooler when it's warm [TS]

  there dress shots are made out of coffee [TS]

  fibers that whisks wet and absorb odor [TS]

  they provide extreme question and [TS]

  shockingly comfortable i can vouch for [TS]

  that the socks are super comfortable no [TS]

  risk they offer free shipping free [TS]

  returns and a wonder day no questions [TS]

  asked return policy so you can buy your [TS]

  clothes get your shirt find out it's the [TS]

  slightly wrong sighs maybe you should [TS]

  have got no one little smaller little [TS]

  bigger send it back [TS]

  totally free of 200 days couldn't be [TS]

  better go to their website is Ministry [TS]

  of / the talkshow Ministry of [TS] / the talk show and what [TS]

  they'll do if you go there is they will [TS]

  send you a free pair of their moisture [TS]

  wicking dress socks for free [TS]

  fifteen dollar value with your first [TS]

  purchase and they also have seven retail [TS]

  stores including bethesda maryland [TS]

  Chicago and Atlanta and you can go into [TS]

  the retail stores if there's one near [TS]

  you and just mention the talk show when [TS]

  you checkout and you'll get that same [TS]

  free pair of socks so my thanks to [TS]

  Ministry of supply great great sponsor [TS]

  love it really really cool stuff [TS]

  what next on the on a the results front [TS]

  ipad maybe ipad sales were 16 million [TS]

  last year the same quarter and third [TS]

  down to 13 million this quarter [TS]

  I don't know what to make it up i don't [TS]

  know i mean i think that i think we're [TS]

  still we're still trying to find the the [TS]

  replacement cycle and they and the [TS]

  bottom of it you know [TS]

  the what we call it the bottom the [TS]

  bottom of the pencil mark [TS]

  yeah but where it starts to swing back [TS]

  up and people repurchase or steady [TS]

  stabilizes anyway yeah i don't know i [TS]

  mean i think there's two schools of [TS]

  thought on this I think you could argue [TS]

  that you know iPads are built really [TS]

  well and they handle you know single [TS]

  tasks and it's sort of like you got up [TS]

  apple sold a framing hammer to someone [TS]

  to hang pictures right mm so like you [TS]

  video you go to the hardware store [TS]

  there's five kinds of hammer there [TS]

  there's a you know picture hanging [TS]

  hammer which comes in a little like [TS]

  plastic piano bubble pack in its got [TS]

  like a few finish nails and the Hammers [TS]

  like if you have anything bigger than a [TS]

  teeny-tiny nail into a plaster or [TS]

  whatever it just hit the head falls off [TS]

  right and you go all the way up the [TS]

  scale through all the different hammers [TS]

  to a framing hammer framing hammer is a [TS]

  hammer that like slams in 10 penny nails [TS]

  to two-by-fours a two by sixes on a on a [TS]

  construction lot right the framing [TS]

  hammer is reinforced its got like a long [TS]

  Tang thats thats you know really [TS]

  thoroughly embedded in the head and when [TS]

  you swing that thing paying you know it [TS]

  goes it's gonna waffle head to see you [TS]

  know the nail got nice and and trunk [TS]

  down and you can see that you got your [TS]

  imprint on that board so you know the [TS]

  nails driven only home and you could [TS]

  just whale away on that for ten years [TS]

  need that hammer will last year eight so [TS]

  apple sold people framing hammers and [TS]

  they're they're having and picture [TS]

  frames so you've got you know and that [TS]

  ten-year-old or five year old or heck [TS]

  even a teenager or adult who uses it to [TS]

  browse the web and and for a variety of [TS]

  different apps that don't really push [TS]

  the capabilities of the ipad in any [TS]

  significant way and they're like this is [TS]

  fine [TS]

  why can't i just keep using this because [TS]

  that framing hammer is nowhere near its [TS]

  limits right and i think that there's [TS]

  that's one school of thought that like [TS]

  you doing the ipad significantly over [TS]

  built for the tasks that most people use [TS]

  it for and then the other school i think [TS]

  the other side of it [TS]

  is Apple has not done as good a job as [TS]

  it could explain to people how much they [TS]

  can do with that framing hammer like [TS]

  they haven't sold as a framing hammer [TS]

  and so I think that there's definitely [TS]

  some interesting debate to be had there [TS]

  i don't even know where I fall you know [TS]

  on that scale yet i am of two minds [TS]

  about it but I think those are the kind [TS]

  of arguments that people are having [TS]

  about where the ipad is currently and [TS]

  then on top of that you have this [TS]

  hey we don't know how long it's gonna be [TS]

  before people need to or want to replace [TS]

  an ipad that they don't break right you [TS]

  know ever since the ipad 2 or three or [TS]

  whatever you know better i guess you'd [TS]

  say it's been pretty capable [TS]

  yeah so why replace it yeah i think it [TS]

  starts with the ipad air [TS]

  I feel like up until then it was still [TS]

  improving rapidly I mean the first one [TS]

  is the first one that mean you know it [TS]

  was you know [TS]

  Wow to tablet that people might actually [TS]

  buy but it was super thick it didn't [TS]

  have right now and then it got thinner [TS]

  and then it got retina but the ipad 3 [TS]

  that had retina actually got thicker [TS]

  than the ipad 2 that was before it and [TS]

  it was replaced by apple six months [TS]

  after it came out which is sort of [TS]

  ridiculous in hindsight just shows shows [TS]

  how far they were pushing themselves to [TS]

  get that retina ipad 3 out and then I [TS]

  really feel like it found itself with [TS]

  the ipad air where they strike the size [TS]

  on the sides and it that the a-series [TS]

  chips had gotten I'm sorry about that [TS]

  that that launched Syria again on my [TS]

  phone saying a serious [TS]

  I'm sorry I apologise anybody out there [TS]

  was a theory dingus was activated by it [TS]

  but at it and I just feel like my my [TS]

  working hypothesis on the weird [TS]

  trajectory of ipad sales weird meaning [TS]

  it you know at one point was like 20 [TS]

  million a quarter and it was sky it was [TS]

  faster [TS]

  it was never above the iphone but it was [TS]

  above the iphone at that date since [TS]

  launch like the first ipad outsold the [TS]

  first iphone the second ipad ipad 2 [TS]

  outsold the iphone 3g [TS]

  and you know and then it came down to [TS]

  earth and my working theory on this is [TS]

  simply like pretty much what you said [TS]

  that it's there was this great unfilled [TS]

  need Steve Jobs right that there was [TS]

  this middle territory for something like [TS]

  an iPad in people's lives and there was [TS]

  nothing like it right the phones were [TS]

  too small and laptops are you know they [TS]

  are great for certain things but there [TS]

  there's their impersonal enough and the [TS]

  form factor is such that it you know it [TS]

  creates this void that the ipad actually [TS]

  does Phil but then once people got one [TS]

  especially of the air vintage or later [TS]

  there that's it they don't need another [TS]

  one until they you know break the other [TS]

  one who [TS]

  yeah i mean if you look at it from the [TS]

  terms of like a ADD Steve introduces the [TS]

  ipad and says we think people are going [TS]

  to love this people need this and that [TS]

  was if you if you subscribe to the [TS]

  histories of it the ipad was a goal and [TS]

  the iphone was and everything that they [TS]

  hit on but if you go to go back to that [TS]

  and you say you have him walk onstage [TS]

  and say we think that this is going to [TS]

  be you know in 10 years or whatever [TS]

  would what is an out doesn't end so 77 [TS]

  years in seven years [TS]

  this is going to be at that total of [TS]

  three hundred million dollar business [TS]

  for apple which is about what i pads are [TS]

  maybe a little more now right people [TS]

  would have been like overjoyed great 30 [TS]

  million dollars uh you know that the [TS]

  there's really a million units excuse my [TS]

  heart three times significantly more [TS]

  dollars but you know II you you look at [TS]

  the amount total years old and these [TS]

  these billions of dollars of you know [TS]

  business that the ipad created you would [TS]

  go hey that's an entire company more [TS]

  than an entire company's worth of value [TS]

  that you're going to create for apple [TS]

  and shareholders and whatever else that [TS]

  is more [TS]

  that's more than great and it's only [TS]

  because the iphone has been so you know [TS]

  outsized popular and now we know [TS]

  continues to grow that the ipad looks [TS]

  poultry in comparison like it because [TS]

  you had those go go early years [TS]

  yeah there's at work with [TS]

  a real ramp up right now fastest-selling [TS]

  computer for fastest selling consumer [TS]

  electronics device [TS]

  I think maybe they connect beat it for a [TS]

  time and then it will pass that around [TS]

  don't quote me but you know one of the [TS]

  fastest anyway selling consumer [TS]

  electronics devices of all time and it's [TS]

  just yeah the you can look at those boom [TS]

  years and you go home and you know it's [TS]

  now it's going down or whatever but you [TS]

  know I ipad still be still sold 13 [TS]

  million of those you know in the last [TS]

  quarter which is crazy and if you have [TS]

  still an enormous business and it it is [TS]

  Apple's answer to the sub heusen dollar [TS]

  computer market right like let's just [TS]

  admit that the phone is a phone and even [TS]

  Apple you know its smartphone is the [TS]

  most important device in the computer [TS]

  industry has ever come up with any even [TS]

  Apple I think even as much as Apple new [TS]

  with the 10 year ago introduction of the [TS]

  iphone that they had something special [TS]

  on their hands [TS]

  I don't think they even Apple itself was [TS]

  surprised at just how how useful [TS]

  smartphone could be and how much we [TS]

  would depend on it as are all right [TS]

  primary device if you just think of the [TS]

  ipad if they called it the mac pad [TS]

  instead of ipad and you just counted it [TS]

  with mac sales as pc i don't i don't [TS]

  think that's a ridiculous comparison to [TS]

  make you know that there are people who [TS]

  are going to you know to gonna go drop [TS]

  five hundred dollars on a portable [TS]

  computer we're not going to buy a [TS]

  macbook because there is no system is a [TS]

  five-hundred-dollar macbook but they [TS]

  might get an ipad pro or you know it an [TS]

  ipad air or whatever it if you add up [TS]

  you know those 13 million ipad sales to [TS]

  the max five million sales that's 18 [TS]

  million personal computers that apple [TS]

  sold you know enough [TS]

  whatever price range from ipad 2 to you [TS]

  know most expensive Mac it's pretty [TS]

  impressive but i do think that it's sort [TS]

  of goodness i think it's already settled [TS]

  into sort of a mac like static number of [TS]

  how many million they can sell a quarter [TS]

  you know so did the analogy the cars and [TS]

  trucks analogy where the cars a you know [TS]

  lightweight computer and a truck is a [TS]

  desktop or wherever many people off [TS]

  then view the ipad is the car and you [TS]

  know that's then set the iphone aside [TS]

  but i think it's interesting to read you [TS]

  get a little bit and view the iphone is [TS]

  the car [TS]

  um you know the iphones your daily [TS]

  driver right that you name me a day you [TS]

  don't touch your iphone possible right [TS]

  you lost it you broke it you don't touch [TS]

  it other than that you touch it every [TS]

  day [TS]

  that's your car the desktop stays the [TS]

  truck right so the question then is like [TS]

  is the ipad your your utility vehicle or [TS]

  is it your sports car in other words do [TS]

  you like take it out on the weekends to [TS]

  get work done or do you take it out on [TS]

  the weekends for fun and I think that [TS]

  there's there's whatever the case [TS]

  whatever side of that he come down on I [TS]

  think there's definitely a case to be [TS]

  made for the ipad as like a a [TS]

  purpose-driven device that mean you know [TS]

  their whole companies built up around [TS]

  revel systems and other things that are [TS]

  built up around using the iPads to to [TS]

  serve functions in the aid large portion [TS]

  of its business is driven by [TS]

  institutional sales right like schools [TS]

  and other things that use the iPads in [TS]

  in very specific ways and I think that [TS]

  there's did the netbook arena whatever [TS]

  when you remember the netbook error in [TS]

  schools when everybody's like all of [TS]

  this by netbooks for the kids and those [TS]

  things are just so bad whatever so bad [TS]

  garbage yeah garbage garbage it was at [TS]

  the office it was very funny to me [TS]

  because I mean my son is now in seventh [TS]

  grade but as a thirteen-year-old he's [TS]

  sort of like an interesting age [TS]

  technology wise because you know when he [TS]

  first started going to school it was and [TS]

  I wasn't quite 10 years ago but you know [TS]

  2008-9 whatever school had a lot of I [TS]

  don't know if they were called netbooks [TS]

  but you know effectively they were [TS]

  that's what a lot of the devices they [TS]

  had and all the key all kids knew they [TS]

  were junk like that because it and it's [TS]

  so funny to me because I remember when I [TS]

  was a kid getting access to any computer [TS]

  in school was it was it would if it's [TS]

  like all of a sudden Pope [TS]

  to just pumped full of dopamine and I'm [TS]

  on you know you're right and yes there [TS]

  were ones that were better than others [TS]

  and newer than others and there are even [TS]

  that some of them some of the classes I [TS]

  mean it's okay ad-hoc at the school [TS]

  elementary school I went to there were [TS]

  you know some teachers had like a TI 99 [TS]

  for a or whatever it was called which is [TS]

  a total piece of junk I mean it ran on [TS]

  the little cassette tape drive but i [TS]

  loved it it was just so funny to me to [TS]

  see like first graders who thought that [TS]

  you know didn't even want to use the [TS]

  netbooks because they were such piece of [TS]

  jump who write and they can it's like [TS]

  they can tell anybody could tell [TS]

  everybody could tell and I if you look [TS]

  at the ipad that way when you look at it [TS]

  like hey you know no matter what your I [TS]

  mean you know there are some people that [TS]

  can't afford any computer at all and [TS]

  that's that's you know to be that's a [TS]

  different problem a different discussion [TS]

  to be had right but if you can afford a [TS]

  computer the almost nearly the first [TS]

  computer you could afford either [TS]

  subsidized iphone or an unsubsidized [TS]

  ipad right and i think that if you you [TS]

  could look at like chromebox and a lot [TS]

  of other things as sort of those [TS]

  companies efforts to do that to lower [TS]

  the barrier to get somebody to using [TS]

  their computer / using the web in [TS]

  Google's case using their services and [TS]

  using their connected you know they're [TS]

  connected services that that carry [TS]

  advertising and whatever the case may be [TS]

  in Apple's kc it's the same thing it's [TS]

  like we want people to be into the apple [TS]

  ecosystem so we can teach them about how [TS]

  good Apple could be for them and and [TS]

  what you know what an apple computer [TS]

  feels like versus another computer and I [TS]

  think the kinds a good ambassador that [TS]

  way and so if it always exist if it [TS]

  levels out at some point is we're not we [TS]

  haven't seen any leveling out i think [TS]

  that's the big question marks that [TS]

  everybody is saying right now as once [TS]

  the this the true replacement cycle [TS]

  start to kick in and or you know Apple [TS]

  finds a way to revitalize it in some [TS]

  significant way where you know we can a [TS]

  new spike that resets the bar and then [TS]

  it's you know slopes downwards from [TS]

  there as everybody adopted the new thing [TS]

  whatever the case may be I think there [TS]

  will be a point where it eventually [TS]

  levels out and we see what kind of [TS]

  business the ipad [TS]

  business actually is and will be long [TS]

  term I think that business will always [TS]

  be characterized by its ability to you [TS]

  know give people expanded computing [TS]

  capabilities at far less price than a [TS]

  macbook now and that's that's what it [TS]

  will always be for apple and an apple [TS]

  could preach about you know what it [TS]

  could be for artists and what it could [TS]

  be for creatives and all this other [TS]

  stuff that's great [TS]

  and hopefully the continued to serve [TS]

  those people by pushing the capabilities [TS]

  of the device but the vast majority of [TS]

  sales in the category or not that that [TS]

  you know there's not 13 million draw [TS]

  artists buying it for pencils you know [TS]

  it's just not that's not the way it [TS]

  works [TS]

  the the number i pointed out one of the [TS]

  numbers i pointed out it was that just [TS]

  looking at revenue last year ipad was [TS]

  above mac and services by like little [TS]

  bit for mac and about a billion dollars [TS]

  in revenue for the same quarter last [TS]

  year and as of this year and announce [TS]

  the numbers announced today the mac did [TS]

  7.2 billion in revenue and ipad was down [TS]

  to 5.5 and services were up from six [TS]

  billion to 7.2 billion and again i'm not [TS]

  a doom and gloom on ipad but I think it [TS]

  just goes to show how the mix of the [TS]

  price points that are selling at ipad [TS]

  are Arlo i think that that you know and [TS]

  I think ipad pro is a successful product [TS]

  but i think it's going to be most [TS]

  successful in years to come as it [TS]

  trickles down you know the original iPad [TS]

  pro trickle down to the lower price [TS]

  points and I think it's clear since the [TS]

  max like unit sales are just about dead [TS]

  even [TS]

  but the revenue was up quite a bit that [TS]

  the macbook pros the new ones sold [TS]

  pretty well for the first quarter and I [TS]

  don't even think that that would they [TS]

  weren't even out for the whole quarter [TS]

  right yeah they were in when you look at [TS]

  that trickle-down effect I mean look at [TS]

  the ipad pro especially the larger one [TS]

  and how much capability i mean it easily [TS]

  at on par utility wise at least in the [TS]

  specific utilities with it [TS]

  week you know computers from wacom that [TS]

  were several thousand dollars more [TS]

  and frankly worse you know that the [TS]

  missile tracking was not nearly what it [TS]

  is on the ipad and the screen does not [TS]

  have the color rendition and accuracy of [TS]

  the ipad pro and you look at all that [TS]

  and you look as that trickles down [TS]

  you're going to see those pro devices [TS]

  being in giving people access artists [TS]

  and other Creators access to those [TS]

  capabilities in ways that just were not [TS]

  even heard of and I think apple doesn't [TS]

  get credit for that stuff because people [TS]

  want to see you know in the business in [TS]

  tech writing world people want to see [TS]

  those results in the new numbers and [TS]

  it's like Oh every everybody must buy [TS]

  that ipad pro and really drive up the [TS]

  sales and price and stuff every quarter [TS]

  whereas if you look at it in the Ark of [TS]

  the game where it's like hey worshipping [TS]

  miss now in in a year it's going to be [TS]

  really affordable and we're going to [TS]

  sell a lot more of them or a lot more of [TS]

  devices that have their capability [TS]

  whatever they're going to call them [TS]

  yeah and that that arc i think is a very [TS]

  interesting one and it's hard to message [TS]

  right because people don't want to hear [TS]

  were we're putting this thing out that [TS]

  not a lot of people are gonna buy but [TS]

  more people will buy later when it's [TS]

  affordable they want to hear or putting [TS]

  this thing out the people must buy now [TS]

  yeah yeah you know right it's like [TS]

  anything short of an ipad that makes [TS]

  everybody just throw their old ipad in [TS]

  that garbage and go get in line to buy [TS]

  the new one is somehow failure but it [TS]

  doesn't really work right [TS]

  the only other thing I have from the [TS]

  results and from the the notes of the [TS]

  conference call that I read was that tim [TS]

  cook pointed out that Apple pay users [TS]

  are up 33 x year-over-year so that's it [TS]

  really gives that's that's a very good [TS]

  year for Apple pay especially since it's [TS]

  what two years old now [TS]

  two-and-a-half years old who uh and [TS]

  again that's the other thing I had in my [TS]

  notes that is sort of like hey let's all [TS]

  remember that that getting people to do [TS]

  something with it 22 like twenty [TS]

  thirteen years hey you're going to pay [TS]

  for stuff but [TS]

  putting your fingerprint on a phone at [TS]

  the register on your cell phone right [TS]

  sounds weird right it's like different [TS]

  and it's like I don't know i mean at it [TS]

  I i know enough about how it works i [TS]

  understand it that it's I actually [TS]

  understand that it's actually more [TS]

  secure than using a credit card a lot [TS]

  more secure it you know if you're doing [TS]

  a magnetic swipe but you know people [TS]

  always have the the heebie-jeebies about [TS]

  putting your credit card into the phone [TS]

  or something like that i mean there is a [TS]

  lot of an awful lot of people who spent [TS]

  years not buying anything at all on the [TS]

  web because they didn't feel like they [TS]

  can trust it because it was new and [TS]

  different and that's just the way humans [TS]

  are hooked up for the most part that new [TS]

  and different is scary and therefore you [TS]

  wait so 3x growth in apple-pie guess I I [TS]

  didn't see the details on where exactly [TS]

  that is like how much of that is in the [TS]

  US how much of it is worldwide expansion [TS]

  but i feel it's one of those stories [TS]

  that in terms of hey Apple hasn't done a [TS]

  goddamn thing under tim cook that that [TS]

  that crowd it conveniently overlooks [TS]

  that it's a really solid Tim Cook Apple [TS]

  era success story [TS]

  yeah BTW user behavior and something [TS]

  that has to do with their wallet you [TS]

  know their bank account for whatever [TS]

  thats did say me hard [TS]

  it's insanely hard and so it is it is [TS]

  encouraging to see things like that that [TS]

  theoretically you know could be big bets [TS]

  I mean you know when people had the [TS]

  inkling that they were going to get into [TS]

  payments you know people saw that as a [TS]

  as a very big business for them and I [TS]

  think it's still you know it already is [TS]

  so somewhat of a business another [TS]

  Services category and could be a much [TS]

  larger business in the future especially [TS]

  if you know apples able to sell apple [TS]

  pay through and keep up this kind of [TS]

  growth but I mean it's the hurdles you [TS]

  have to overcome when you're switching [TS]

  over to something like Apple pay are [TS]

  crazy you know i mean you got you come [TS]

  to the counter and you're gonna pay with [TS]

  your phone and you're not quite sure [TS]

  where to put it and you're not you know [TS]

  how far away and what part of this [TS]

  credit card so i put it where the credit [TS]

  card goes to put it over the keypad and [TS]

  put it over some weird symbol that i'm [TS]

  not familiar with to put on this clear [TS]

  plastic part in [TS]

  and people are embarrassed didn't want [TS]

  to do that if the smaller people behind [TS]

  them yeah it's still so early ways it [TS]

  it's still so early days that usually [TS]

  like when I go to like a place that just [TS]

  like I noticed that they've upgraded [TS]

  their point-of-sales systems and I [TS]

  either see the Apple pay logo or I see [TS]

  that little wifie looking logo that [TS]

  means it usually works apple pie usually [TS]

  works even if they're not officially [TS]

  Apple pay yet you know that it just has [TS]

  contactless you know a NFC payments the [TS]

  Clark usually has no idea and I'll say [TS]

  like there will be like how you going to [TS]

  pay out so I'm gonna try Apple pay and [TS]

  they'll say what's that [TS]

  I mean I've had that happen and it i'm [TS]

  not afraid to do it because i know you [TS]

  know i am NOT embarrassed even if it [TS]

  doesn't work and be you know I am NOT [TS]

  embarrassed that I might know more about [TS]

  how this works than that Clark but [TS]

  somebody has to go first and people are [TS]

  resistant to stuff like that [TS]

  here's a funny thing this is true ok i [TS]

  forget if I've mentioned something to [TS]

  show before now but one of the places I [TS]

  go that just added a new point of sale [TS]

  system that that supports Apple pay our [TS]

  the the state-run liquor stores here and [TS]

  in Pennsylvania and there's very [TS]

  consistently it doesn't work on the [TS]

  first try every single time I put my [TS]

  phone there have my thumb on the sensor [TS]

  and it says card not valid or something [TS]

  something's not valid used card instead [TS]

  but if I just sit there and pull lift my [TS]

  thumb and press it again it goes ding [TS]

  and then I get the payment but how many [TS]

  people would even think to try that like [TS]

  did and every time every single time I [TS]

  you right i just looked at the error [TS]

  message and I thought well that that [TS]

  error message makes no sense so I'm just [TS]

  going to try again and I'd you know [TS]

  didn't ask the clerk for help or [TS]

  anything I just SAT I just move the [TS]

  phone away moved back and now every time [TS]

  I do it gets it's the same thing I [TS]

  anything else on your penis penis [TS]

  doesn't doesn't translate well you know [TS]

  and others on earnings before my nothing [TS]

  ahead [TS]

  all right I let me take a break then and [TS]

  thank our next concert good friends [TS]

  longtime sponsor of the show audible [TS]

  audible is the unmatched selection of [TS]

  audio content everybody thinks of them i [TS]

  always do i do I think of them is the [TS]

  place you go for audiobooks and they are [TS]

  the number one source in the world for [TS]

  audiobooks but they really have expanded [TS]

  to just audio in general they have their [TS]

  own audio shows news comedy all sorts of [TS]

  stuff you get a membership you go there [TS]

  you can number one if you go to [TS] / talk show you'll get a [TS]

  30-day free trial so they got 30 days [TS]

  you can listen to everything you want at [TS] / talk show but it's just [TS]

  amazing how much stuff they have and [TS]

  their stuff works on just about any [TS]

  device that you have that can play audio [TS]

  you can play audible stuff so even if [TS]

  you have like an old ipod that used to [TS]

  use like to workout at the gym or [TS]

  something like that it doesn't have to [TS]

  be like a smartphone you don't need like [TS]

  a special app you can just download the [TS]

  stuff to your by mac and think it over [TS]

  to an old ipad or ipod or kindle or [TS]

  anything like that that can play audio [TS]

  and it'll work [TS]

  audio content so great if you're [TS]

  listening to meet sell you on audible [TS]

  right now you obviously listen to all [TS]

  our audio content you obviously listen [TS]

  to really long podcast you probably have [TS]

  more time on your commute or wherever it [TS]

  is that you listen you want to fill it [TS]

  with more good stuff go to / [TS]

  talk show and you will find it so my [TS]

  thanks to audible for sponsoring the [TS]

  show remember that URL / [TS]

  talk show and you'll get a 30-day free [TS]

  trial if you haven't got one yet [TS]

  here's some news and it's interesting [TS]

  it's follow-up from last week's show I [TS]

  had been Thompson on and I mentioned an [TS]

  anecdote from a reader of the show and I [TS]

  was a little nervous bringing it up [TS]

  because i was like one reader who wrote [TS]

  me this email but he convinced me it he [TS]

  it really seemed like he knew what he [TS]

  was talking about like it wasn't just [TS]

  like he wasn't just spitting in the wind [TS]

  but he bought the new LG ultra fine 5k [TS]

  display the one that that Apple like [TS]

  sort of code developed and it's the only [TS]

  retina standalone display you can get [TS]

  from apple right now is this is LG [TS]

  models and he was having all sorts of [TS]

  problems with it and for some reason it [TS]

  occurred to him to try moving it and he [TS]

  did and it turns out that moving it away [TS]

  from his Wi-Fi router solve the problems [TS]

  and I dimension this on the show with [TS]

  Ben Thompson [TS]

  well it seems like this is an actual [TS]

  thing Zack hall wrote a story at 9to5 [TS]

  mac person firsthand story where the [TS]

  exact same thing happened with him where [TS]

  he and in the problem was so bad it was [TS]

  like actually crashing his macbook he [TS]

  has his macbook hooked up to the 5k [TS]

  display and it was like freezing is his [TS]

  macbook he googled a little bit saw some [TS]

  met people other people speculating [TS]

  about this hey it's near a Wi-Fi router [TS]

  his was near his Wi-Fi router so we [TS]

  moved it to a different moved away from [TS]

  from his desk and in the problems all [TS]

  went away and any contacted LG and LG [TS]

  said yet just don't use an air Wi-Fi [TS]

  router this is crazy [TS]

  I mean why would a computer ever be near [TS]

  Wi-Fi around [TS]

  hey it's okay i can't help but think [TS]

  especially in a home office it's got to [TS]

  be a frequent a common scenario you know [TS]

  and anybody you know they're probably [TS]

  anybody who's like lives in like a [TS]

  studio apartment or something like that [TS]

  I mean you may not even be able to move [TS]

  it that far away you know it's kinda [TS]

  crazy and it is insane [TS]

  yeah i mean the just gonna be fine i [TS]

  guess we know how exactly how closely [TS]

  co-developed it was now [TS]

  the the gist of this display i do not [TS]

  have 1i have a imac here so I'm not a 5k [TS]

  imax I'm not in the market for a [TS]

  standalone display but I saw I've seen [TS]

  the mini apple stores i saw them at the [TS]

  apple event that you and I are at a [TS]

  couple months ago and my impression my [TS]

  first-hand impression of just looking at [TS]

  it you know from a kick the tires [TS]

  perspective was too gorgeous display in [TS]

  a really chin see but at least [TS]

  plain-looking case it doesn't it's not [TS]

  an ugly i don't think they're ugly but [TS]

  i'm not really not easy it's yeah yeah [TS]

  it's not sexy like an apple product is [TS]

  so I could be like wow that is I want [TS]

  that that is gorgeous you move crazy but [TS]

  the display call [TS]

  the display call [TS]

  all these excellent and that convenience [TS]

  of just being able to plug in USB see [TS]

  thunderbolt and just have it work seems [TS]

  really great and but like you said it [TS]

  seems pretty clear that the [TS]

  collaboration with apple is not on the [TS]

  enclosure so the chimpanzee the chin 0 [TS]

  yeah and none of the shielding the [TS]

  tenancy feeling and looking enclosure is [TS]

  I've also gently shielded and and no i'm [TS]

  not an expert on shielding but it seems [TS]

  to me like this is this just emblematic [TS]

  of why there's a practical reason beyond [TS]

  just wanting to spend more money that [TS]

  that a lot of us wish Apple were making [TS]

  its own apple-branded 5k displays and [TS]

  yeah i mean the answers that I got with [TS]

  this stuff when I poked around you know [TS]

  like why the heck not [TS]

  you know you know is it's it's pretty [TS]

  much as hard as designing an entire [TS]

  system so why do it and it's late you [TS]

  know we're not white doing is it's like [TS]

  not that attitude that I got like who [TS]

  cares it was more we have so many hours [TS]

  in the day and this is like designing a [TS]

  new imac so maybe we shouldn't do it [TS]

  this time you know and maybe we should [TS]

  put our efforts elsewhere and whatever [TS]

  you could disagree or agree i'm not i'm [TS]

  not a scrap i'm not saying yay or nay to [TS]

  their POV but that's the that's the [TS]

  input that i got and that's not through [TS]

  official channels or anything so it's [TS]

  not like a PR message is just a matter [TS]

  of like it's really hard to build that [TS]

  especially because of the the throughput [TS]

  you know that you have to have to [TS]

  connect to external displays and if they [TS]

  wanted to do with the way that they [TS]

  wanted to do it normally which probably [TS]

  would have worked close to a Wi-Fi [TS]

  router it would have taken them a lot of [TS]

  time and money and manpower to achieve I [TS]

  guess the money money is not really the [TS]

  problem it's more the time and manpower [TS]

  yeah you know taking something off of [TS]

  mac's or another department to work on [TS]

  on that or hiring people in training [TS]

  them up through apple university and [TS]

  blah blah blah to get you know to a [TS]

  point where they are able to work on [TS]

  those hardware products just they just [TS]

  felt he couldn't devote the time to it I [TS]

  guess I don't know [TS]

  it's you know it's hard 1i you know [TS]

  whether you want to fault them or not I [TS]

  I don't know and obviously some people [TS]

  do but for this for which is that they [TS]

  have so much money how can this how can [TS]

  they possibly be stretched thin on [TS]

  resources and now whether that's an [TS]

  actual emblematic of a problem in their [TS]

  mindset that they're still at an [TS]

  executive-level think too much like the [TS]

  small company smaller company they used [TS]

  to be free iPhone or whether it's [TS]

  actually bad management [TS]

  I don't know but it's obvious though [TS]

  that they are whether they whether [TS]

  that's reasonable and that's a sign that [TS]

  they you know that for Apple to be Apple [TS]

  that you know like maybe the pro [TS]

  argument would be for Apple to be Apple [TS]

  they have to continue to be like a small [TS]

  company that focuses on a few things [TS]

  because that's just how that's how it [TS]

  works [TS]

  the con argument would be you know it's [TS]

  just ridiculous that they can't afford [TS]

  to put an engineering team together to [TS]

  do a display but it's it the proof you [TS]

  know that whether it should be this way [TS]

  or not they are there stretch then and i [TS]

  think that the decision not to do this [TS]

  it is exactly along those lines that [TS]

  would we do if it's going to take us [TS]

  that much effort to do this we we put [TS]

  that effort somewhere else right [TS]

  yes and you you could hammer all day on [TS]

  the argument that well they should be [TS]

  able to afford the man hours or whatever [TS]

  the case but yeah that's the way came [TS]

  down and that's why these decisions were [TS]

  made the way they are as far as i know i [TS]

  don't know maybe I'm wrong but hey I [TS]

  think you you reach a point where saying [TS]

  no becomes less about all we're not [TS]

  going to pursue this new fun thing and [TS]

  sometimes if it comes down to [TS]

  we're not going to splinter ourselves in [TS]

  ways that make a lot of logical sense [TS]

  like it's much harder to say no to the [TS]

  things that makes make a ton of sense [TS]

  than it is to say no to the things that [TS]

  have very obvious faults and flaws and [TS]

  and whatever you know i'm in so many [TS]

  unload unknowns in a project can lead [TS]

  you to say no so many things that say [TS]

  hey you [TS]

  where were down this pathway we've spent [TS]

  a lot of money and whatever those could [TS]

  be hard to say no to [TS]

  but the ones that make total sense i [TS]

  wouldn't have to make an external [TS]

  display those are the ones that you're [TS]

  going to take the most heat over those [TS]

  are the ones that you're gonna hopefully [TS]

  have to really come to have a [TS]

  come-to-jesus moment on and say we're [TS]

  not making them for these reasons that [TS]

  make a lot of sense to us and that we [TS]

  can even message or or you know don't [TS]

  want to message externally for whatever [TS]

  reason if it is simply that they can't [TS]

  they don't have enough people to work on [TS]

  it man you know it's it's hard it's [TS]

  that's a hard thing to defend but if [TS]

  they don't have they don't happen right [TS]

  what are you gonna do like you can't [TS]

  just hire all the random team full of [TS]

  random people to work on a high-profile [TS]

  hardware release because you're gonna [TS]

  have the same problem as the LG think [TS]

  it's gonna have some weird um issue i [TS]

  mean this is hard apple works on their [TS]

  stuff there's always some weird um issue [TS]

  when they launched something right [TS]

  because this stuff is difficult and it's [TS]

  very complex [TS]

  so if you're not going to own that and [TS]

  owned whatever problems you come you [TS]

  can't say oh we put our BTW mom it's [TS]

  right or we put the noobs on it you just [TS]

  gotta say no I wouldn't be surprised if [TS]

  apple doesn't do a standalone display or [TS]

  two you know 4k and 5k I i don't know i [TS]

  don't have any kind of like little [TS]

  birdie info that yes they're coming [TS]

  I have had little birdie info and other [TS]

  people have to that that there were [TS]

  apple-branded displays in the works [TS]

  within Apple whether they're still [TS]

  moving forward I have not heard anything [TS]

  I don't know so I don't have that can [TS]

  even whisper secret on the show and say [TS]

  I've heard it but I know that there were [TS]

  and I i wouldn't be surprised if the [TS]

  story is I mean what everybody seems to [TS]

  believe right now as Apple is out of the [TS]

  standalone display game period and we're [TS]

  never going to have another one possible [TS]

  i would not be surprised if the network [TS]

  is another standalone display other than [TS]

  you know treating the imac buying an [TS]

  imac just to use as a standalone display [TS]

  with with [TS]

  target display mode which is kind of [TS]

  ridiculous the idea that you'd buy a [TS]

  computer wouldn't use but it does work i [TS]

  was also make the question how expensive [TS]

  is the display versus the other [TS]

  components of the device so if your 5k [TS]

  display had to be sixty percent as [TS]

  expensive as a regular imac that's on [TS]

  the bubble that seventy percent is [TS]

  expensive right [TS]

  who the hell's gonna buy it right you [TS]

  know so I if there's also that you know [TS]

  component costs angle the kind of thing [TS]

  about I wouldn't be surprised though if [TS]

  the story is simply and and again on [TS]

  this theme of Apple can only do so much [TS]

  at a time and there's only so many [TS]

  resources for testing and for even just [TS]

  stuff like sales and training the the [TS]

  entire retail staff on and product [TS]

  design and stuff like that I wouldn't be [TS]

  surprised if there are still in the [TS]

  works but it was so clear that it wasn't [TS]

  gonna be done in time for october twenty [TS]

  sixteen when they needed to have [TS]

  something to sell with the new macbook [TS]

  pros they needed some sort of retina [TS]

  display that would work with us bc and [TS]

  Thunderbolt three that they couldn't get [TS]

  that done in time for LG could slap [TS]

  something together and so that's what [TS]

  they did and I in that may be but it [TS]

  won't i think maybe it won't come out [TS]

  till like a year you know like next year [TS]

  like next October in October 2017 a year [TS]

  later [TS]

  here's the new Apple whatever they're [TS]

  going to call it you know 5k display [TS]

  right and it doesn't it will be hard to [TS]

  think that this will be their ambassador [TS]

  forever right that it's really hard i [TS]

  know that you know like it it's a it [TS]

  sounds funny but I know John Syracuse [TS]

  has made this point on ATP several times [TS]

  that they're going to make this brand [TS]

  new campus it's going to be you know [TS]

  it's all Johnny I've approved hallways [TS]

  and curved glass and lighting fixtures [TS]

  and a desk sees this you know they're [TS]

  designing their own tables and then all [TS]

  of this and what are they going to do [TS]

  film with LG display's on the engineers [TS]

  desk it's you [TS]

  it just seems ridiculous [TS]

  I mean for everybody doesn't answer keys [TS]

  that thing right really funny ticket it [TS]

  does so I other than nilay patel nilay [TS]

  is the one who based on like is off the [TS]

  record briefing at the events that Apple [TS]

  said they're out of the game i was told [TS]

  them a little bit more like what you [TS]

  heard which is what i asked i was like [TS]

  hey does this and I just I asked and in [TS]

  a briefing like hey is this LG Display [TS]

  does that mean you're not going to make [TS]

  a standalone display and of course i did [TS]

  not get an answer a master forand [TS]

  completely prepared they were obviously [TS]

  rehearsed on the point did not get a yes [TS]

  or no but I got this is the display we [TS]

  have to show you know what we're selling [TS]

  now is the display that will be in our [TS]

  stores that will have you know hooked up [TS]

  in a prominent space in all of our [TS]

  retail stores to make of that what you [TS]

  will and that making a standalone [TS]

  displayed in today with all the stuff is [TS]

  as complicated as making like a new imac [TS]

  or something like that that very doesn't [TS]

  say never it but it does say to me [TS]

  yes you can buy the LG Display now if [TS]

  you need a new display and we're not [TS]

  going to come out with one in a couple [TS]

  of weeks or a couple of months i think [TS]

  it honestly what it comes down to is if [TS]

  it makes sense then they will and if [TS]

  they it makes a lot of sense to me [TS]

  that's all I know you know that they [TS]

  would do it one day but that they wasn't [TS]

  now and that they needed something to [TS]

  ship I think you're totally right on [TS]

  that yeah it also seems to me like in [TS]

  terms of allocating engineering and [TS]

  testing and all the other stuff where it [TS]

  seems to me like the sort of thing that [TS]

  they can get a lot of years out of [TS]

  because they have in the past where [TS]

  they've come out with new when they [TS]

  called him cinema displays or whatever [TS]

  the other product names were they sold [TS]

  them you know they come out with a new [TS]

  one and it would be great maybe price [TS]

  competitive with other companies based [TS]

  on the technology of the day and then [TS]

  they'd apple just keep selling them and [TS]

  999 as the years go on and monitors from [TS]

  dell and other companies you know [TS]

  improve or drop the price and apple can [TS]

  keep selling it because it's apple and [TS]

  people like to buy the apple branded 10 [TS]

  pay a premium for it even if it's you [TS]

  know a couple of years old [TS]

  it just seems to me that there there at [TS]

  a place with these displays where that [TS]

  you know you don't need more pixels per [TS]

  inch [TS]

  they're super bright they've [TS]

  got amazing color they've gotten to the [TS]

  wide color gamut that it you know it if [TS]

  Apple came out when i think i could see [TS]

  that they come out with one and sell it [TS]

  unchanged for three four five years [TS]

  right three is probably 30 minutes 55 k [TS]

  is like five keys [TS]

  it's getting close to paper resolution I [TS]

  mean you know even above if you count [TS]

  color edition yeah and so it's it's just [TS]

  there's not really a there's no not a [TS]

  lot of places to go from there [TS]

  so if they make something back a bacon [TS]

  squeeze of many many years out of it and [TS]

  really what would change would be you [TS]

  know there's another major change in [TS]

  input or output yeah i think that they [TS]

  sort of a connector or whatever [TS]

  yeah i think that the display itself is [TS]

  least likely to be the that we need we [TS]

  need something to replace it it's more [TS]

  likely to be the the connector [TS]

  yeah it's like it I can't believe this [TS]

  display doesn't have USB eight you know [TS]

  that kind of thing [TS]

  let me take one final break here and [TS]

  thank our third and final sponsor [TS]

  longtime friend of the show maybe the [TS]

  longest-running sponsor Squarespace [TS]

  Squarespace is the best place to go to [TS]

  build a new website it's it's just an [TS]

  amazing product can't say enough good [TS]

  things about it i mentioned circular saw [TS]

  steal a talking point from Marco Arment [TS]

  i love this i love this idea which is a [TS]

  you're a nerd you're listening to the [TS]

  talk show you might need a website [TS]

  yourself and if so you should definitely [TS]

  look at Squarespace you really should it [TS]

  is amazing but here's the bigger thing [TS]

  it's such a great idea [TS]

  you probably know someone at some point [TS]

  this year somebody you know is going to [TS]

  come to you and say that they need a [TS]

  website maybe it's like a school group [TS]

  at your kids school or a like some kind [TS]

  of community group or church or [TS]

  something you're involved with and [TS]

  you're like everybody knows you're the [TS]

  tech person you're the you're the nerd [TS]

  and they're going to come to you with [TS]

  help on this set him up with squarespace [TS]

  go to squarespace to get their cycling [TS]

  because a it is a great service that you [TS]

  might consider using anyway but be [TS]

  because it's so easy to use and because [TS]

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  support that you can get right on the [TS]

  phone if [TS]

  do you have a problem they're going to [TS]

  go to squarespace and not go to you so [TS]

  you can like wash your hands of the [TS]

  problem you'll give them a great website [TS]

  they'll get a great price and you'll be [TS]

  done you won't be on the hook for like [TS]

  when they need to add something or [TS]

  change or whatever they can just do it [TS]

  themselves [TS]

  it is a great idea and a great a great [TS]

  point I think for the audience of a show [TS]

  like this so make your next move with [TS]

  squarespace go to and [TS]

  enter the code talk show know that just [TS]

  talk show and you will get ten percent [TS]

  off at checkout [TS]

  it's a great great service keep in mind [TS]

  next time you need a website or next [TS]

  time anybody you know needs a website [TS]

  remember that code to talk show [TS]

  ah here we go deep breath wish i had a [TS]

  stiff drink but instead of just got [TS]

  fizzy water [TS]

  yeah I can't we can't wallow I can't [TS]

  keep going I can't do this without [TS]

  mentioning Trump's immigration order [TS]

  they came down last week and Silicon [TS]

  Valley is responses and even if you [TS]

  wanted you know play the lets you know [TS]

  I'm not talk about politics it's way too [TS]

  it is essential to the racket that we [TS]

  cover it really hits home [TS]

  I mean it's a huge deal and I don't that [TS]

  I I think it's hard too hard to [TS]

  overstate how how much of a reaction is [TS]

  already gotten from companies like Apple [TS]

  and Google + and etc I saw google added [TS]

  ya background that's right employees did [TS]

  well yeah you know I we get in [TS]

  I've gotten so much female of this John [TS]

  we we cover politics and we cover the [TS]

  policies that affect tak we always have [TS]

  you know we have for many years but [TS]

  we've been covering so much more of it [TS]

  lately because so much more has been [TS]

  happening thats related to our you know [TS]

  our industry that we cover and and you [TS]

  know they are are the companies that [TS]

  look to us for whatever reactions or [TS]

  whatever context that they they want to [TS]

  have and we you know even writing about [TS]

  a significant amount of these things as [TS]

  they relate to individual companies and [TS]

  also get like 10 [TS]

  leaders speaking out and I'm taking you [TS]

  know stances one way or another pro and [TS]

  con and very little pro but how far con [TS]

  is a good question about about you know [TS]

  how many of them have responded and I [TS]

  just kidding i mean i've gotten hate me [TS]

  all you know I mean I always game but [TS]

  again you know got a lot over this and [TS]

  there's people like why are you talking [TS]

  about politics I don't come to you for [TS]

  that you know people accusing us of [TS]

  being partisan in one direction or [TS]

  another depending on what are you know [TS]

  what articles published on the stuff and [TS]

  you know I just ignore most of it i'm a [TS]

  made-up saying something about it at [TS]

  some point but the long and short of it [TS]

  is that this is not a tech issue it's [TS]

  not a politics issue it's like a human [TS]

  issue [TS]

  yeah like if you're human you should be [TS]

  interested in this stuff and to be fair [TS]

  to our readers like I'm I'm not [TS]

  instructing our writers and our writers [TS]

  are not doing it they're not writing [TS]

  about stuff from a pure politics [TS]

  standpoint we're not political like [TS]

  we're not just going like a politics [TS]

  happened look at politics you know we're [TS]

  definitely relating it to our industry [TS]

  but the tech a reading the stuff that [TS]

  he's that he's talking about with [TS]

  immigration and you know possible [TS]

  reduction or are crapping in clamping [TS]

  down on h-1b pieces which allow [TS]

  highly-skilled tech workers to come over [TS]

  here [TS]

  those are incredibly germane to the tech [TS]

  industry from everybody from Apple to [TS]

  google to to facebook and everybody else [TS]

  uses an enormous amount of h-1b workers [TS]

  because there are a lot of highly [TS]

  skilled programmers that come from India [TS]

  and elsewhere in Asia and and you know a [TS]

  wide variety of other countries that [TS]

  don't that aren't here because our [TS]

  education system has a lot of loss so [TS]

  it's a incredibly remain issue and [TS]

  they're you know they're up in arms [TS]

  about it hard you know up in some kind [TS]

  of arms depending on how closely they're [TS]

  colluding with the current [TS]

  administration [TS]

  yeah and you know and they're doing the [TS]

  right thing where they you know they've [TS]

  all these big companies you know the [TS]

  googles apples microsoft it's inevitable [TS]

  with the headcount that they have that [TS]

  they have hundreds of employees who are [TS]

  affected by this you know that somewhere [TS]

  along the chain right there [TS]

  passport that they you know have a [TS]

  number born in or [TS]

  wer were once or still are a citizen of [TS]

  one of these seven countries and you [TS]

  know might literally be out of the [TS]

  country right now you know in a way that [TS]

  this was implemented with i just signed [TS]

  it in it even if you're in the air right [TS]

  out your your band is you know it it's [TS]

  great that the companies have their [TS]

  employees backs and helping them but [TS]

  generation i don't know i don't that and [TS]

  and I thought it was you know I I [TS]

  thought Tim Cook's statement could have [TS]

  been a little stronger like I'm not [TS]

  expecting him to lash out and you know [TS]

  i'm obviously you know it's no secret [TS]

  that I am vibrantly by rule ently [TS]

  against Trump and I see him as a danger [TS]

  in a menace personally but even so I [TS]

  totally get that Tim Cook the CEO [TS]

  anybody in a position like that can't be [TS]

  even though i would certainly suspect [TS]

  privately that he is based on everything [TS]

  we know about him and who his personal [TS]

  heroes are i get it and and you know and [TS]

  I see people on Twitter who are you know [TS]

  who want him to be you know like a [TS]

  completely outspoken critic i see how we [TS]

  can't but I still think his statement [TS]

  could have been a little bit stronger [TS]

  and and in terms of its like the old [TS]

  adage that like when you're you know [TS]

  collaborating with people that you work [TS]

  with or you're in school and you're [TS]

  doing a crit you criticize the work not [TS]

  the person so I I don't expect him to [TS]

  come out strongly against Trump [TS]

  personally but I've ice [TS]

  I think he could have come out a little [TS]

  stronger against the the executive order [TS]

  on immigration [TS]

  yeah and you've got you've got a variety [TS]

  of people it was interesting to one here [TS]

  we was like a little inside not super [TS]

  inside baseball but inside baseball in a [TS]

  way if you look at the statements that [TS]

  were released there was a cab [TS]

  especially early on there was only a [TS]

  couple of people that went on the record [TS]

  and just said stuff said hey this is me [TS]

  and here's the what I have to say about [TS]

  it and there were a lot of leaked memos [TS]

  even Tim Cook's was not a public [TS]

  statement it was a quote-unquote leaked [TS]

  memo right you know couple of [TS]

  publications got it we ended up getting [TS]

  it you know that of origin of those [TS]

  memos is [TS]

  then you know debated among various [TS]

  journalist age you get this where did [TS]

  you get this and we were like you know [TS]

  sawed-off I you know I can tell you but [TS]

  it where that where those come from is [TS]

  an interesting thing because elite memo [TS]

  is essentially we want to say this but [TS]

  we don't want to make a public statement [TS]

  about it because we're a public company [TS]

  and this has a lot of ramifications and [TS]

  a statement on the record statement is a [TS]

  I feel very strongly personally about [TS]

  this come at me bro right and that is a [TS]

  there's a difference right an impact I [TS]

  feel and eventually a lot of the CEOs a [TS]

  lot of the tech companies ended up [TS]

  having a you know some sort of public [TS]

  personal statement about it you know [TS]

  satya nadella posted on linkedin you [TS]

  know the mark zuckerberg posted on [TS]

  Facebook you know so on and so forth and [TS]

  those those statements i mean sergey [TS]

  brin showed up at the protest against FL [TS]

  and he said you know this is not a not a [TS]

  company thing i'm here as an immigrant [TS]

  as a person but then of course the [TS]

  employee rally and then you know google [TS]

  was supportive of that it all about [TS]

  about the the band or whatever you want [TS]

  to call the order right semantics are [TS]

  being debated as we speak but that that [TS]

  was interesting to me to view the [TS]

  spectrum of people who work where at [TS]

  least i don't know if you want to call [TS]

  it comfortable but felt passionately [TS]

  enough about it to put it on the record [TS]

  in their own voice and go out there [TS]

  versus the people who were in it you [TS]

  could it could spell caution it could [TS]

  spell calculation you know there are a [TS]

  lot of ways to take it it just depends [TS]

  on how you look at it you know huh [TS]

  one weekend I know it is honestly you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah there's a lot here that doesn't [TS]

  really feel that it is a lot of here [TS]

  that seems to be very clearly to be [TS]

  coming from Steve band and abandons to a [TS]

  10-year at Breitbart and the [TS]

  publication's bent it's very clear that [TS]

  these are all things that he feels very [TS]

  strongly personally about how much of [TS]

  those feelings that trump shares will be [TS]

  a very interesting historical account to [TS]

  read [TS]

  I mean if we ever figure that out you [TS]

  know how closely their views are aligned [TS]

  or if man is able to just you know push [TS]

  forth his views and make them transfuse [TS]

  but it seems very clear that these [TS]

  attitudes towards immigration and [TS]

  towards a variety of other government [TS]

  institutions very strongly held by band [TS]

  and this rapid application of the [TS]

  executive order which Republicans were [TS]

  so angry that Obama utilized even though [TS]

  utilize them for less than say Reagan or [TS]

  someone else you know he it is very [TS]

  interesting to see what the [TS]

  ramifications of this very fast and [TS]

  loose application of this these orders [TS]

  that obviously had far less let's put it [TS]

  this way weights very clear they had far [TS]

  less vetting from the appropriate [TS]

  agencies than previous executive orders [TS]

  right you know from the agents affected [TS]

  agencies are agencies responsible for [TS]

  their execution so I'm this is not a [TS]

  politics thing this is like a logistics [TS]

  thing or if you're looking at the [TS]

  government as a business which trumpet [TS]

  said he does is very interesting to see [TS]

  this kind of business being conducted [TS]

  and what the ramifications of it will be [TS]

  given that we are a weekend and we're [TS]

  already exhausted [TS]

  it is definitely going to be interesting [TS]

  to see how people maintain their [TS]

  vigilance that these things are handled [TS]

  according to the rule of law and [TS]

  according to appropriate procedure and [TS]

  process because few gives a real thing [TS]

  you know I mean are fatigued that a real [TS]

  thing you know he just simply can't keep [TS]

  up it's so fatiguing that you [TS]

  mispronounced it i thought one of them [TS]

  was telling you we're in Nunda and [TS]

  there's so much good writing that's [TS]

  going on it's hard to keep up with all [TS]

  of it but one of the most telling things [TS]

  i did I actually noted this back in the [TS]

  campaign i remember this but there were [TS]

  a couple of you know when it was clear [TS]

  that the Steve band was going to be so [TS]

  or was so influential his campaign and [TS]

  then after the election when he when we [TS]

  found out that the sky one that he was [TS]

  going to be a top adviser Trump had been [TS]

  a guest on bannon's radio show to catch [TS]

  this on a podcast and get some kind of [TS]

  actual radio network [TS]

  but band had a show and one of the times [TS]

  that Trump was on they talked about they [TS]

  were talking about immigration and Trump [TS]

  was this is where they differed where [TS]

  Trump was arguing more or less that he [TS]

  wanted to make it easier for when [TS]

  immigrants come and go to our [TS]

  universities and become experts in [TS]

  science or whatever other fields they [TS]

  are that it would be better for the [TS]

  country to figure out a way to keep them [TS]

  here with their newly found us educate [TS]

  you know expertise than to have them [TS]

  leave again and band you know you say [TS]

  you agree with that right abandoned the [TS]

  argument was that there's you know [TS]

  something to do if it didn't quite say [TS]

  was a probability you could tell us [TS]

  where he was going that when two-thirds [TS]

  or three-fourths of the CEOs in Silicon [TS]

  Valley or from Asia or South Asia you [TS]

  know that's a problem and you know like [TS]

  I there's no way to avoid it i mean [TS]

  either you think either you look at [TS]

  something and you see like a sundar [TS]

  Pichai who was born in India is the CEO [TS]

  of one of the most successful companies [TS]

  in the history of the United States you [TS]

  either see that as a great success [TS]

  I I mean I just there's no common ground [TS]

  i see this is that sundar Pichai is [TS]

  proof that the system works and that our [TS]

  country can be great and the sieve and [TS]

  hold it up as a you know like a problem [TS]

  to be so that needs a solution and i [TS]

  don't know i don't see how ya think you [TS]

  referred to it as a cultural right that [TS]

  you know what it refers to our culture [TS]

  that we have to maintain a certain [TS]

  culture and then the question then [TS]

  becomes you mean white culture right [TS]

  right like do you mean you mean that the [TS]

  European people who came over and killed [TS]

  off the natives like those are the folks [TS]

  that are the best excuse me [TS]

  those are the folks that are the best in [TS]

  those that's the culture we need to [TS]

  maintain and you know i mean i think [TS]

  that you have to take that stuff at face [TS]

  value and I think that was you you can [TS]

  read something about this but you know [TS]

  everybody that was saying in any of the [TS]

  Peter teal said this and nobody really [TS]

  believed him at the time but it really [TS]

  looks pretty gross [TS]

  in retrospect you know it is in terms of [TS]

  a gross miscalculation or gross decembe [TS]

  lling [TS]

  of the truth in that is that you know [TS]

  you don't take it literally grabbed [TS]

  right did don't take Trump literally [TS]

  take him at his his intent not his word [TS]

  or whatever they you know saying was but [TS]

  it's become very clear that you have to [TS]

  take this stuff literally so if you look [TS]

  at statements like that you go okay well [TS]

  you know if this person's you know [TS]

  policies or whatever are enacted then [TS]

  you know the their goal is to create a [TS]

  safe space for white people in America [TS]

  and then to you know a destroy as much [TS]

  of the current government establishment [TS]

  as possible because they view it as [TS]

  corrupt or unnecessary because these he [TS]

  says he views himself as a bulb [TS]

  Lannister whatever you'd like to disturb [TS]

  his band like to tear down as much of [TS]

  the gov existing government as possible [TS]

  so you look at things like that you can [TS]

  look at them hey you know I'm I'm [TS]

  intellectually curious about what this [TS]

  person's views are and you know where [TS]

  this gentleman is coming from and then [TS]

  you can look at the stuff that's [TS]

  happened in the last week and you go oh [TS]

  maybe I should take this as a statement [TS]

  of fact and not a statement of [TS]

  philosophy aura or game theory [TS]

  yeah and I think that that is a very [TS]

  scary proposition I have a theory on [TS]

  that from you that and you know it is as [TS]

  much hope as as a while can't prove it [TS]

  but it's certainly what I hope in terms [TS]

  of the sustainability of this [TS]

  administration it's a fact that [TS]

  according to polls these is the least [TS]

  popular incoming president in modern [TS]

  history meaning in the history of like [TS]

  the gallup poll and modern polling [TS]

  technology and with just about every [TS]

  previous are in fact not just about with [TS]

  every previous elected new president [TS]

  there is this grace period after the [TS]

  election where the soon as the elections [TS]

  over here's the winter you know [TS]

  congratulations and the campaigning [TS]

  stops there is a groundswell of support [TS]

  and their popularity grows they enter [TS]

  office with an approval rating that is [TS]

  is higher this was true for Reagan this [TS]

  was true for Carter Bill Clinton George [TS]

  W Bush George HW Bush it's always been [TS]

  true and it's not true with Trump [TS]

  Trump's popularity and approvals went [TS]

  down between the election and starting [TS]

  and amazingly this gal approval rating [TS]

  went down eight points in his first week [TS]

  as president which just doesn't happen [TS]

  and again it [TS]

  I don't know but probably lost everybody [TS]

  who's anybody who's listening it was a [TS]

  trump supporter but I don't I think I [TS]

  lost him a while ago but here's the help [TS]

  for someone who's supposed to trump is [TS]

  my theory is that Trump had a coalition [TS]

  of voters who half of them [TS]

  let's say roughly loved every little [TS]

  word he said they wanted to lock her up [TS]

  they wanted to build a wall they wanted [TS]

  to make Mexico pay for the wall that [TS]

  they didn't want they wanted to ban [TS]

  Muslims from the country and any other [TS]

  half where the like the peter thiel type [TS]

  and which is why i wrote about it which [TS]

  is the you can take this guy literally [TS]

  he did he says these things because they [TS]

  sound good he's a showman that he's not [TS]

  going to do any of this stuff you know [TS]

  it's just think of the vague intent you [TS]

  know it's you know Till's description [TS]

  and it's so funny that he picked up on [TS]

  the the band the Muslims was that oh [TS]

  yeah he just says that but what he [TS]

  really means is they're going to have a [TS]

  saying image [TS]

  they're just gonna have a saner smarter [TS]

  immigration policy well this this [TS]

  immigration policy is insane and it's [TS]

  not smarter it's poorly written it's [TS]

  hard to execute I think what's happening [TS]

  with Trump's approval is that the people [TS]

  the only people he's going to be left [TS]

  with are the group that wanted him to be [TS]

  taken literally and that the group who [TS]

  didn't want to take it literally and [TS]

  just assumed that he wouldn't are [TS]

  jumping ship because now they see that [TS]

  he actually is doing these these things [TS]

  and I don't think that there's [TS]

  widespread support for them [TS]

  yeah yeah it is [TS]

  I mean there's this like a couple of [TS]

  there's a couple of accounts on Twitter [TS]

  can sort of collating regretful truck [TS]

  motors [TS]

  hmm who we are expressing their then one [TS]

  today that you know hundreds of tweets [TS]

  long sort of before-and-after tweets the [TS]

  first it's like clipping the i'm afraid [TS]

  i don't remember the account right now [TS]

  but they're clipping the before to meet [TS]

  you know when they're like all the trip [TS]

  is going to x and y and you know trust [TS]

  him and then the before the afterwards [TS]

  like he's not gonna do this at all i'm [TS]

  not now i'm not going to healthcare or [TS]

  whatever and i think that there is [TS]

  there's a shot in front and that but [TS]

  there's also like it when people say you [TS]

  have to see the other side and or you [TS]

  know cross borders to to make that [TS]

  always seems like it's always one side [TS]

  having to cross those borders but I [TS]

  thought honestly think there's [TS]

  opportunity there to not be like Nelson [TS]

  haha and be like look you were fooled [TS]

  now let's fix it right and unfortunately [TS]

  you know for many people [TS]

  unfortunately for especially for people [TS]

  who are very solidly were very slowly [TS]

  Hillary Clinton Clinton supporters [TS]

  whatever fixing it is going to end up [TS]

  with penson power and the worst-case [TS]

  scenario is that you know for those [TS]

  folks is definitely bandhan stays in [TS]

  power and implements his true strategy [TS]

  which he laid out very explicitly and [TS]

  you have to believe he wants those [TS]

  things because he's you know in Britain [TS]

  and influenced all of the other stuff so [TS]

  far that's matched up 141 right and so [TS]

  that's worst-case scenario that buddy [TS]

  your best-case scenario is pence which [TS]

  you know pence does not share liberal [TS]

  values that all right i mean very [TS]

  far-right you would consider him one of [TS]

  the farthest right if it wasn't for the [TS]

  band Trump conglomerate right so yeah [TS]

  it's gonna be a rough for years i think [TS]

  for anybody well ruff to it maybe if [TS]

  this groundswell of of disapproval and [TS]

  or you know activity or our activism is [TS]

  able to carry for two years [TS]

  you get into the midterm elections and [TS]

  maybe you know the checks and balances [TS]

  are back in place where it's some sort [TS]

  of middle ground is found between the [TS]

  two halves of the country literally [TS]

  almost two halves of the voting public [TS]

  right now uh you know so it's it's [TS]

  definitely it at set times like this [TS]

  where you realize just how important to [TS]

  the balance of the force so to speak [TS]

  those checks and balances are when [TS]

  they're not there anymore it's it's a [TS]

  very sudden cold bath you know [TS]

  yep and you know I don't think we're at [TS]

  the end of it and and in terms of issues [TS]

  that will just pop up on stun [TS]

  unexpectedly that draw uh you know the [TS]

  industry that we cover into it directly [TS]

  I mean it's going to be something I mean [TS]

  for example I mean I mean trumpets [TS]

  harping about it a year ago with the San [TS]

  Bernardino case and apples studied [TS]

  refusal to to give the FBI you know not [TS]

  to go down that whole story again but [TS]

  you know they didn't want to give them [TS]

  an OS to unlock the phone in and it's [TS]

  going to be a little different when and [TS]

  Trump is the presidents that have just [TS]

  the candidate and the heats fighting [TS]

  back against it so I'm sure what will go [TS]

  down that path again but yeah I mean [TS]

  cybersecurity is the next big thing [TS]

  so we'll see alright briefly because i [TS]

  know we've gone over only on he's in [TS]

  charge so outline one last thing I just [TS]

  wanted to touch on is that you know how [TS]

  many years now you've been going back [TS]

  last week you were at sundance in Utah [TS]

  yeah and I do that [TS]

  so tell me about it tell me what you [TS]

  know you do seems like you really have a [TS]

  good time out there [TS]

  yes I'm gonna have been going as long as [TS]

  some folks I mean obviously it's been [TS]

  going on for decades but um I started [TS]

  going in 20 [TS]

  13 2012 2013 somewhere in there so for a [TS]

  few years now I've been going over here [TS]

  in I like it a lot I mean it's you know [TS]

  I like everything about it there's you [TS]

  go to this town in utah park city which [TS]

  is this Sundance's cover salt lake city [TS]

  park city and a couple of other small [TS]

  venues like Robert Redford's how [TS]

  students personal screening room and [TS]

  some other things had bases and he's got [TS]

  ahold Conclave up there [TS]

  the dude basically just owns this whole [TS]

  town that's really funny but it's a you [TS]

  go [TS]

  it's in this snow there's nothing else [TS]

  to do but watch movies and eat your you [TS]

  know your kind of locked in i mean you [TS]

  could ski and said I'd never do I always [TS]

  tell myself all over that you know take [TS]

  an afternoon or whatever but there's [TS]

  always seems to be something to see you [TS]

  something to do but you go in there snow [TS]

  locked in this little town everybody [TS]

  there's is there to see movies there are [TS]

  like 60 70 movies that play every day [TS]

  across all the venues you can only see [TS]

  three or four of them a day I mean [TS]

  that's if you pack them in and how do [TS]

  you decide how do you mean what do you [TS]

  do to get like a loser just like I hear [TS]

  you get lucky you you get like a pass [TS]

  and here's a list of all the movies and [TS]

  you just go through and and pick them [TS]

  yeah it's different for passholders so [TS]

  if your pass holder you buy a package [TS]

  which gives you access to certain kinds [TS]

  of tickets and so many tickets a day or [TS]

  whatever the case right near those past [TS]

  holders get some nice perks like to get [TS]

  to go in and see get seeded first to the [TS]

  theater and whatnot but I goes press [TS]

  because i do cover variety things like [TS]

  last year for instance the the [TS]

  documentary there were hartzog [TS]

  documentary on on the internet you know [TS]

  the kind of impact of the internet was [TS]

  showing there so get to interview him [TS]

  and and wrote about that for TechCrunch [TS]

  and so I went in there more stuff there [TS]

  is interactive vraa are versus just [TS]

  films so when i go i always find [TS]

  something to write about for TechCrunch [TS]

  and it's it's fun to go is pressed [TS]

  because you get you sign up you get your [TS]

  press pass your press pass allows you to [TS]

  see any press screening they have [TS]

  essentially 14 theater multiplex [TS]

  where it runs press P&I screenings all [TS]

  day so pressing industry you can go to [TS]

  any of those just get in line and go in [TS]

  and watch those and then you can also [TS]

  wait list for any movie throughout the [TS]

  day and weightlifting is essentially [TS]

  they have a little app in you you when [TS]

  the waitlist thing turns on you hit go [TS]

  and it says your number and so the [TS]

  overflow seating which they have between [TS]

  40 and a hundred to two hundred seats on [TS]

  every theater assigned to the waitlist [TS]

  you could possibly get in if you don't [TS]

  have a ticket you buy your ticket for [TS]

  twenty dollars that each movie ticket is [TS]

  twenty dollars and me go and see this [TS]

  movie that nobody's ever seen so it's [TS]

  kind of a good deal for like local [TS]

  residents and folks that don't have [TS]

  ticket packages but for the press you [TS]

  sign up you get your app where your [TS]

  press pass which allows you to do all [TS]

  that then you get 10 free complimentary [TS]

  tickets over the course of the show and [TS]

  then you can request between one and two [TS]

  tickets every day that the press office [TS]

  in the morning so everybody rushes down [TS]

  and you know says always try to see this [TS]

  or that they sell out of those tickets [TS]

  once they would sell out and that's it [TS]

  so in general like this last time I [TS]

  don't have my stubs in front of me to [TS]

  count but i think i saw i got there [TS]

  thursday and left tuesday morning was a [TS]

  short trip for me and I saw that big 20 [TS]

  movies in that space of time [TS]

  well and then a bunch of VR exhibits so [TS]

  when you pack it in you know you're [TS]

  there you might as well you know I mean [TS]

  I do anyway you know different people [TS]

  handle it differently the film [TS]

  journalists usually stay there for a [TS]

  week or even to because it's the runs [TS]

  two weeks and that second week is a [TS]

  second weekend / week is great because [TS]

  nobody's there [TS]

  I've gone in the second week some years [TS]

  and you know it's it's purely about the [TS]

  movies like the stars of all left to go [TS]

  back to their lives or wherever the [TS]

  first week every show you go to the [TS]

  director or the actors or everybody [TS]

  involved is there you get to see it [TS]

  essentially what the people that made [TS]

  the movie including down to the grips [TS]

  and camera guys or wherever else came [TS]

  and then those q and A's after every [TS]

  movie so you get kind of you know talk [TS]

  to the filmmakers about their [TS]

  motivations and all that stuff [TS]

  person-to-person right there so it's [TS]

  pretty fun uh what was the best movie [TS]

  they saw your team can pick one give a [TS]

  handful yeah I'm gonna write about 2 e.r [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  is a couple that I found really good i [TS]

  mean there's a couple that are non tech [TS]

  related that I saw was there the big [TS]

  sick which is Camille Nanjiani he wrote [TS]

  that with his wife about their [TS]

  experiences Camille's that one of the [TS]

  guys from Silicon Valley is that he [TS]

  plays one of the programmers very good [TS]

  and you will hear about this I think [TS]

  netflix bottom actually so you should be [TS]

  able to watch it on netflix i don't know [TS]

  if they're gonna release it theatrically [TS]

  are directly on the fly but netflix and [TS]

  amazon were big enormous presence is [TS]

  there they bought a ton of movies from [TS]

  this is like for 2013 [TS]

  there is just like rumblings that [TS]

  netflix is like poking around like there [TS]

  are people here and then year after year [TS]

  they got to be a more and more of a [TS]

  presence until this year it was like you [TS]

  know they were there were some of the [TS]

  biggest purchasers at the show and [TS]

  everyone everybody's lips and many of [TS]

  the movies that premiered there had [TS]

  already been pre-purchased by netflix [TS]

  and things like that so it's you know [TS]

  are my world was colliding with so happy [TS]

  with Sunday's world at a rapid pace over [TS]

  the last several years and it's got to [TS]

  be it has to be from their perspective a [TS]

  lower-risk way because these are movies [TS]

  that are already made you know that in [TS]

  it you know I don't that you could say [TS]

  look I did you know and and there's some [TS]

  subjective miss to it we're obviously [TS]

  whoever it is from netflix is watching [TS]

  the movie into yeah this is good you [TS]

  know making a subjective judgment that [TS]

  this this is a good good movie or a good [TS]

  enough that we should think about buying [TS]

  it but then once they do that the risk [TS]

  is so much lower than backing something [TS]

  but you know when it's just a screenplay [TS]

  and there's so much uncertainty and I [TS]

  know who are you going to get who can [TS]

  you cast is it going to come together [TS]

  you know so I got a surprise me at all [TS]

  price right right and like last every [TS]

  time I go to one of them my favorite [TS]

  things to do is when i'm in line I just [TS]

  talked to people because in general [TS]

  these are film industry people that are [TS]

  there i mean their bands to write just [TS]

  folks that want to see movies but like I [TS]

  talk to you know academy award-winning [TS]

  producers that are just standing in line [TS]

  and we just have a discussion right [TS]

  because they're waiting to see some new [TS]

  things and they're like oh yeah here [TS]

  it's great or whatever and you know I [TS]

  talked with them about their next [TS]

  project and about the industry in blah [TS]

  blah and like I talk to buyers and [TS]

  and producers and they're talking about [TS]

  netflix and amazon they're talking about [TS]

  Cassidy is this a challenge to you is it [TS]

  like do you view it as like an invasion [TS]

  or whatever there-there you know in [TS]

  general the response has been very [TS]

  positive when they're like hell no for [TS]

  us it's like a way to tell a filmmaker [TS]

  look you can use these people to make [TS]

  your next movie in other words sell this [TS]

  movie [TS]

  you're not going to bet you know be rich [TS]

  off of it or whatever you're gonna make [TS]

  a decent deal because neither whether [TS]

  amazon amazon netflix are overpaying [TS]

  right now for movies simply because a [TS]

  they have the money and be there sort of [TS]

  trying to build momentum but they're [TS]

  also enabling filmmakers to just boom [TS]

  like sell that and then make another [TS]

  movie right like it move on to your next [TS]

  project and then allows them to build a [TS]

  body of work and it's just like a new [TS]

  plug-and-play distributor that they're [TS]

  able to just can't go it's a netflix [TS]

  comes with our corpus of data that says [TS]

  this is what we know works [TS]

  amazon comes with their deep pockets and [TS]

  says hey we're going to really shoot [TS]

  theatrically like they're different [TS]

  playbooks there's not they're not just [TS]

  like bland entities the handle things [TS]

  the same way you know they definitely [TS]

  distribute them very differently but [TS]

  logic new opportunities you know for [TS]

  filmmakers any other movies you want to [TS]

  give a shout out to other than the big [TS]

  sick [TS]

  yeah Marjorie prime I really really [TS]

  liked it and Marjorie prime is a movie [TS]

  that stars Jon Hamm geena davis who else [TS]

  a tim robbins isn't it as well so I mean [TS]

  like you know all all-star cast I mean [TS]

  it's directed by this guy named mark [TS]

  Michael I'm radio I think I'm raida I'm [TS]

  meet my mispronounced aid he directed [TS]

  the hamlet in our neighborhood with [TS]

  ethan hawke yesterday back but yeah the [TS]

  movie stars lowest smith and louis smith [TS]

  is a very variable actress you you have [TS]

  seen her you know it you listeners out [TS]

  there you have seen her in something [TS]

  trust me that busy with our if you [TS]

  remember East of Eden [TS]

  yeah with uh yeah yeah she was in that [TS]

  like she's been in in the biz a long [TS]

  time [TS]

  I think she's e85 86 now but she wasn't [TS]

  you know she's been in tons of stuff [TS]

  that people have seen like fried green [TS]

  tomatoes and oyster and you know true [TS]

  blood and all kinds of stuff right but [TS]

  she played that she plays a character [TS]

  who is losing her memory either via [TS]

  dementia or Alzheimer's or whatever and [TS]

  her family and she played this same [TS]

  character in a stage play written by the [TS]

  guy who you know they adapted the [TS]

  screenplay off of and she's played that [TS]

  character twice in two runs of that play [TS]

  and then he directed this director [TS]

  director her in this movie version of [TS]

  that play and she's an older woman who's [TS]

  losing her cognitive ability and her [TS]

  family purchases her and a i called the [TS]

  Prime and that prime is there to talk [TS]

  with her and to help her to keep those [TS]

  memory pathways active right the helper [TS]

  relive her life and and and talk about [TS]

  her memories so Jon Hamm plays her [TS]

  husband in his younger state because [TS]

  that's the way she wanted to remember [TS]

  him and the prime is set up to engage [TS]

  with her and ask her about her life and [TS]

  to learn so when she talks to it learns [TS]

  about her life essentially learning to [TS]

  be more human and more like him but the [TS]

  themes obviously the AI you know [TS]

  component of it as a huge portion of the [TS]

  theme themes i found absolutely just a [TS]

  spellbinding I mean I I was barely [TS]

  breathing by the end of it and it's not [TS]

  a very it's not thriller by any means [TS]

  you know it's an extremely calm [TS]

  meditative movie that I found to be [TS]

  extremely well acted full of nuance and [TS]

  add rested arrest some really really you [TS]

  know interesting topics about AI the way [TS]

  will affect us you know the way that [TS]

  humans can sort of impart their being to [TS]

  AI in the future or may impart them if [TS]

  it ever gets to that point you know it's [TS]

  very very interesting i do recommend [TS]

  checking it out when it comes out i [TS]

  think maybe netflix but it sounds right [TS]

  up your alley so I feel like we're [TS]

  entering a goal against as Hollywood [TS]

  devolves into nothing but sequels two [TS]

  franchises and 300 million dollar [TS]

  budgets and the expectation you know [TS]

  that [TS]

  did the last two thirds of the movie is [TS]

  going to be blowing up a city every [TS]

  single time [TS]

  alright we're entering like at a golden [TS]

  age of of smaller budget you know what [TS]

  used to be called indie movies I don't [TS]

  know what you want to call them now but [TS]

  you know outside Hollywood and outside [TS]

  the blockbuster mindset of science [TS]

  fiction and a lot of a meeting and you [TS]

  know it's no surprise that were that [TS]

  people are thinking about AI because [TS]

  it's starting to to get real and it's so [TS]

  great it is so refreshing to see movies [TS]

  about AI that have gotten away from AI [TS]

  that goes bad and takes over the plan [TS]

  exactly that said yeah that's generally [TS]

  see and I mean I the one thing what they [TS]

  will say this might be interesting to to [TS]

  be publicity is that the mood at [TS]

  sundance this year I mean I'd like I [TS]

  said I'm not you know I'm not claiming [TS]

  to be some historians of sundance but [TS]

  the mood this year compared to years [TS]

  past because remember the inauguration [TS]

  was happening on that friday that of the [TS]

  beginning of the festival yeah and all [TS]

  this stuff started happening you know [TS]

  like this these the first executive [TS]

  actions and stuff started being passed [TS]

  and all this and people are realizing [TS]

  just how much Trump was being going to [TS]

  be the trumpet promise to be in the mood [TS]

  at Sundance was insane and it was somber [TS]

  and meditative and defiant and you know [TS]

  as artists being artists you know just [TS]

  saying like we're not going to give up [TS]

  the light we're going to push and we're [TS]

  gonna tell stories and we're going to [TS]

  help unify via those stories you know [TS]

  Redford and various programmers make [TS]

  comments as I was sitting in you know [TS]

  screenings and things like that about [TS]

  telling challenging and difficult [TS]

  stories and not letting up on that it [TS]

  was just seemed very very interesting [TS]

  very very unified in its in its emotion [TS]

  you know it in years past it was all [TS]

  over the place you know people have [TS]

  different thoughts and feelings but it [TS]

  seemed very very interesting to me so [TS]

  it'll be interesting to see how artists [TS]

  and filmmakers and people like that [TS]

  react over the next several years [TS]

  yep well it's nice to talk about [TS]

  something a little bit nicer than a [TS]

  Trump but it's it inevitably it came [TS]

  back to trump have you my thanks to you [TS]

  for your time [TS]

  this is a great discussion everybody can [TS]

  absolutely find you on twitter whats [TS]

  your twitter handle pains r pn zer and [TS]

  of course your good work as editor at [TS]

  TechCrunch keep up keep up the good work [TS]

  my thanks to our sponsors this week we [TS]

  had Squarespace and we had audible and [TS]

  our new sponsor ministry of supply so my [TS]

  thanks to them my thanks to you [TS]

  audios [TS]