Roderick on the Line

01: “Keep Moving and Get Out of the Way”


  hello how are you hello Merlin I'm late

  again it's alright i'm usually late to

  everything so this is my just deserts

  are you you seem like a late person it's

  not that I'm late it's that it's that I

  don't get there on time okay and that's

  because I don't leave the house with

  enough time to get where I'm going and I

  don't think that's the same as being


  I think that's I think that is a that is

  a big question that has more to do with

  like how you perceive space and time so

  it's it's more of a science problem

  yes yeah i mean the thing i was in order

  for you to be late you would have to

  have some interest in other people i

  think how what would that be like I

  don't know honey this book probably

  wikipedia it's been like if you were

  late you would be kind of conscious of

  the fact that there are other people

  that had things you need to do and I

  don't think you and I suffer from that I

  think that the results a lot of people

  back there constantly thinking like how

  will this house affect other people

  right who cares is my first time they

  assume that they think that I wouldn't


  yeah right well other people right there

  the problem I'll clearly uh-huh yeah I

  mean you know should be a breeze

  you know for all the all those other

  people well this is the thing I'll i

  leave the house if I have somewhere to

  go I leave the house in plenty of time

  to get there if there weren't other

  people clogging the roads necessitating

  stoplights right if there were not other

  people clogging the roads there would

  not need to be stoplights so I'm talking

  coming here your roads by roads i have a

  sense of how long it takes for me to get

  from hearsay to the University of

  Washington and that takes nine minutes

  but if there are other people on the

  roads which there so often are then it

  takes anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes

  which is infuriating so i usually leave

  here with nine minutes just despair

  sometimes 10 if I if I feel like I wanna

  take a stroll in my car and the building


  it's never enough time people people

  related delays I i struggle with it i

  used to be eternally late person and I

  spent many a years of my life with a bus

  or a partner who was the top permanently

  late like just crazy like you're

  supposed to be there at dinner for six

  people and you arrive like as deserves

  being served like offensively late and I

  became sensitive about it because I felt

  badly and something it's her but that's

  just that was like that was a you know /

  flaw and I was a flaw that i shared and

  together it was terrible

  that's so a lot of relationships get

  weird right you're both terrible at the

  same thing and now I'm really sensitive

  about it but i'm not i haven't gotten

  that great at it i feel like i do what

  you do i think is I in my head I got an

  idea of the greatest conceivable time

  I've ever made to do this yeah right you

  must understand why you have done

  yeah right like you're in your big blue

  van you're driving around you gotta go

  from place to place show to show you

  must have some idea in your head

  well it would never take more than five

  hours to get to austin one time I made

  it in two hours so therefore up I'd be

  there about an hour-and-a-half yeah you

  may not do that cuz you gotta do it for

  your job but like I feel like I do that

  all the time I think oh I've got time to

  get a coffee or I've got time to go stop

  by the office into this thing right

  animal case why the time to sleep for 20

  more minutes and take a stroll

  i'm very curious about something you

  said a moment ago which is that that to

  people who have the two people with the

  same that they do the same things badly

  that's how relationships can we get

  weird that that a that resonated with me

  and ethical to experience

  I'm not sure I I think I mean I hadn't

  thought about it but I i would still

  just this moment it's never occurred to

  me that I did anything bad in any of my

  relationships no I think that's a core

  competency for yeah exactly i'm now I'm

  wondering right wow I always thought it

  was that she did everything bad now I'm

  starting to consider the possibility

  that maybe yeah when the colts not

  making sailboats right they say look we

  were the cook people we make the coke

  let other people make the sailboats why

  would you try to sell cool right yeah


  oh just saying I think the cocaine

  people do make sailboats

  oh sure and like brats prop planes

  yeah well or at least they say

  reengineer sailboats second i should

  think about this more but there's

  probably something to it

  I always felt like if you could well the

  good things that would be terrible

  different things is a good idea but I've

  always believed that you should both be

  able to mostly put up with the same

  stuff I think that's helpful but the

  problem is like for example if you're

  both messy then there's never any

  countervailing force to make the

  housetop being messy it becomes

  synergistically messy right but the

  problem with that is if one person is

  messy and one person's clean then you're

  out war in a different way

  I mean I I felt this about about

  introversion and extraversion because as

  I think you and I have talked about this

  but i'm i'm a very introverted person

  despite being a an entertainer and for

  many years I thought the pan entertainer

  did you snicker at entertainer I find

  extremely entertaining but being

  especially when you're off stage but now

  it is very introverted part no no I'm i

  think i am an introvert and and that the

  definition i use the description i use

  of that is that if you if you find a

  room full of people no matter how much

  you're enjoying the experience are

  enjoying their company if you find a

  room full of people ultimately draining

  and you want to and you need to get away

  and get a loan in order to recharge

  okay then you're an introvert and

  compared to somebody who finds a room

  full of people invigorating and they

  hate to be alone and they want to be in

  other people's company and they find

  that they find that's how they charge

  their batteries

  uh-huh that's my definition ok it takes

  a little self-serving no I mean I i

  would want to hear a little how you

  contrast that with a like a psychotic

  loner or sociopath mclonergan sexy i'd

  say that that person was an introvert

  also sure but in any case I transferred

  it had tried for a long time to only

  date other introverted people because i

  was tired because i didn't like

  extroverts making demands on my time and

  space but i found that one year in a

  relationship even with another

  introverted the person who is most

  introverted becomes the introvert in the

  relationship and even another

  introverted will exhibit extroverted

  tendencies in relationship to the other

  person right so that so this in this

  person who would normally be like Oh

  leave me alone I kind of just want to be

  by myself is suddenly in the posture of

  like why don't you ever want to do

  anything or why don't you ever want to

  just hang out and why don't we ever move

  it seems got on a molecular level it

  seems like there should be some kind of

  cancelling out going on with you got a

  very messy person who is with a very

  clean person I think I i think the

  molecular science would say that

  therefore you would have an average

  clean house

  yeah place of it i think they practice

  that's not the case

  yeah relationship and human beings

  consistently fail to be some scientific

  you know like it and that's the problem

  with psychology psychology keeps for 450

  years as presented itself as a science

  and there's really no there's no

  demonstrable proof that any of it is is

  working it's just it's just a lot of

  just a lot of jabber jaws you think it's

  a lot easier to get some and make a

  make-believe science

  no I don't know if it's a science as

  much as it is like well so where's the

  line between a psychologist and a


  hmm alrighty that's the ash had a


  yeah that's the psychologist is is is

  using the same techniques of talking and

  listening to her but there but they're

  undergirding it with some sense that

  they have a scientific tool box there

  listening but they're listening with a

  scientific tool box rather than

  listening with compassion or something

  and I said what you mean are you saying

  you're saying that there but you're

  talking about like a clinical soar like

  a practicing psychologist as opposed to

  like a scholarly psychologist you're

  saying how is that different from a

  minister and minister is somebody who

  comes in and is a as a student of the

  mind and the heart to try and give

  people comfort and so you're talking

  psychologists more like in terms of like

  a therapist like somebody who would help

  you feel better

  well but what is what is what is a like

  an academic psychologist if not a just

  someone teaching practical psychologists

  i guess i don't know I'm hmm it seems it

  seems to me that that there for for many

  many years the the whole premise of the

  mental health industry was based on a

  reading of Freud and people spent

  decades saying that a lot of the lot of

  women's insecurity was based on the fact

  that they had penis and B and then one

  day we decided that that was not true

  uh-huh in fact it was silly but we

  didn't we didn't throw the the Freud out

  with the bathwater now and now we think

  that you know everybody has you know

  that people's Institute

  30 is based on I don't know what my god

  they're the book stores are full of the

  most of their shelves of books talking

  about your insecurities and the root

  causes of it was funny those if you go

  back you look at Aristotle or Descartes

  her are a lot of those heavy hitters

  back in the day people who laid the

  groundwork for obviously philosophy but

  really also for science I mean it's not

  what we would call science today but but

  back then philosophy was was I think

  seen as part of science it was a way of

  understanding you know how the mind

  works how the universe worked and it

  seems like a lot of it was based on

  these physicalities things like

  eventually come to me things like humors

  and stuff like that but there were all

  these like Theodoric of York kind of

  ways to explain based on the physical

  things like what why the mental things

  happen and the funny thing with the

  fried stuff is it seemed to more and

  more yeah you could say well this

  woman's the reason this woman is

  hysterical from the Greek is because she

  has a uterus so clearly she's crazy if i

  had a universe i would be hysterical to

  sure and she wants a wenis on top of it

  that's awkward you know but it's funny

  because now we're back around to the to

  the to the body stuff where it is it is

  very much it seems to be much more about

  pipes and wires

  yeah it's just a black bile is rising up

  dinner right

  what about you call now I get confused

  because because i think i've read too

  many reviews of REM albums early mm

  there's some words rhyme not shifting

  bodily humors are ways of describing a


  so you not know that the quick pop quiz

  bee call it was because be colic one of

  the memories no bucolic is like a

  pastoral setting up my second line as

  your pastoral is not humor no okay no

  problem attic automatic is yes that's

  the phlegm

  what about birds ask birds ask yelling

  like that style of the birds

  no I think that's in the same family as

  bucolic ok it's birds ask

  you know that's the thing is I I

  understand what everybody wants to

  explain everything I think you could

  argue that you and I i would also like

  to try and explain everything but you

  know what it is with science its to tell

  the certainty I'm troubled by the

  certainty like to me good science should

  always be going but you know I could be


  yeah I am see I'm guilty of that I'm

  guilty of using psychology to explain

  myself and other people with a with a

  with a fair degree of certainty and I

  think I think I keep in the back of my

  mind the the constant idea that i'm i'm

  just guessing but I don't always let the

  other person o.o i think i think that

  what I'm saying is just a theory

  I say it as though i really believe that

  it's true

  what's the point that's good writing

  good writing exactly

  good good writing is you know is I'm

  habit the viewpoint that's correct

  that's correct

  mmm yeah yeah but I'm sitting across

  from somebody saying you know your

  fucking problem is yes it's a little bit

  harder for them to see that i'm just

  playing a character and in this case

  it's the character of somebody who knows

  what they're fucking problem is that's a

  good point it is it's it's def a good

  point sense of that is a really big

  problem with you

  uh-huh yeah but I think it's a problem

  with the with the world i mean like i

  say i'm not necessarily that's the

  second one just for curious what's your

  problem with you

  yeah but no one is a problem i really

  mean opportunities to ya opportunities

  take exciting interrupting John how's

  that how is that a problem with the rest

  of the world haha

  the problem with the rest of the world

  is the rest of the world is not

  listening carefully to me now the

  problem is that the there are a lot of

  people who put their their dumb theories

  down advance their dumb theories in

  their dumb books but they don't in order

  to sell a book you don't say on the last

  page but maybe everything i just wrote

  is just a dumb theory that I

  what up so I think for yourself love the

  author is not that much money in saying

  but I could be wrong right so so so

  these books go out and and gullible

  people read them and they think oh now I

  know and they don't know anything

  yeah or you know or or what it is again

  it's a toolbox and and and it's only as

  good as the carpenter your toolbox is

  only as good as your carpenter ii the

  same toolbox that psychologists

  listening with I just

  hey how a little piece of paper here i

  wanna make sure I'm keeping all these

  straight but I think I think I think

  it's problematic

  I think all this is problematic I think

  more people should be like John Roderick

  and and just say that it a thing is a

  thing but on the other hand i'm also

  have my motto

  yes chuckling that's right service work

  is the thing that troubles me I think

  with a lot of this the science stuff is

  it's not science

  I mean anybody who's out there doing

  straight science a lot of them are well

  first of all they probably working on

  boner drugs a lot of them got them thank

  God but they but I mean if you're doing

  straight science you really are doing a

  kind of you know existential improv

  we're trying to stop you're seeing what

  happens you're saying well here's what

  we know and part of being a good

  scientist it seems to me is to be able

  to go away I but here's the thing we

  said but here's that doesn't mean all

  these other things there's not this ergo

  thing that I because I said that then

  necessarily all these other things with

  that way the exams feels like good

  science says a very specific thing based

  on evidence in context and I feel like

  the context gets left out you know and

  this is why so much of the quote-unquote

  research that you hear on you know in

  newspapers and NPR is is so goofy a lot

  of the time the first of all it's been

  it's been strained and drain through all

  these different sources and a lot of

  times i bet the people who conducted the

  primary research we go how in the hell

  did this ever become like don't use

  aluminum pans anymore

  yeah right i don't know if that's true

  but like I don't know what psychology

  stuff it's hard and it seems like it's

  almost like what like optometrists and

  Dennis and stuff it's like

  chiropodist thank you the further you

  are from like serious science the more

  serious we become the more you demand of

  course the height of this being phd's

  demanding that they be called dr. right

  yeah right for bastards call somebody

  with a PhD dr arrogant bastards yes I

  think it right on the diploma

  I feel like real scientists are people

  who are combining baking powder and

  vinegar and making volcanoes and as you

  as you stray from that core science

  original science of volcano

  manufacturing it just gets into fruity

  pebbles out there in every direction and

  at and in all honesty I think that

  adulthood is a process of becoming

  comfortable with ambiguity and i know

  this about you that you are comfortable

  with a certain amount of ambiguity

  yeah i know i was i was trying to trying

  to be nice to draw on that out i know i

  know you're not comfortable with

  ambiguity but I aspire to be comfortable

  with a certain amount of ambiguity

  because i know that i know that much the

  life that I perceive is really a

  television show that I've been living in

  since I was a little kid and so I don't

  want to get caught masturbating because

  you're an introvert well being an

  introvert is not easy it's really not

  know and I know a lot of the people

  listening to this podcast are introverts

  because that is by definition who

  listens to podcasts people who like to

  hear other people's voices only through

  their car stereo speakers right rather

  than having people sitting in the car

  with them talking to them know where you

  come up with this stuff

  it's it's just a theory um I think in

  some ways the people who are most loudly

  saying things like in our case we're not

  where we are scientists of a kind I

  imagine you know scientists sizes and

  not in the sense of science but in a

  sense of the you know a social


  yeah we're sky interests we know person

  that's good that is that is good where

  blue sky and tests we understand that

  should be we understand how people

  should behave we understand the the like

  Mitzi and best of all possible worlds

  that should exist

  yeah we're actually just here to help

  where the pan gloss overs playing

  glossary so I got nothing

  the odd so the problem is that sometimes

  with people who put things most most

  strongly but you know what

  it's part of the I think you got your

  copy this the contrarian screed the road

  where if you can find you know invented

  sarcasm if you are if you can find any

  hole in any of it doesn't matter whether

  you agree with it or not you just got to

  go explore the whole if you don't mind

  my saying and i think that's that's a

  big part of it is is you might your i

  might say the most ridiculous bombastic

  thing in the world

  just just to say that thing but then

  you're okay arguing about and eventually

  going home you know maybe it is this

  other thing and what bugs me is the

  personal brand stuff we're like you're

  not allowed to you know if you're gonna

  be on brand you're going to be that guy

  who put out that useless book or you're

  going to be this person who's putting

  out this useful study that like you're

  going to be harmed if anything about it

  is shown to be incomplete inconsistent

  or untrue and then your whole world

  falls apart because you know what I mean

  look and that's the thing is they now

  you're dug in

  now you guys gotta defend that until

  he's dead I feel like in a way that's

  true that's true of liberalism now or

  that's true that's true of the whole

  liberal half of this country who are so

  on brand and over the years the brand

  has changed and every new addition to it

  the the Liberals feel like they need to

  embrace it and and anonymous eyes it and

  after a while the brand is so ungainly

  itself rife with internal contradictions

  that liberalism has become meaningless

  or if not meaningless at least it's it's

  a it's it's a multi-headed Hydra that

  can't possibly live it can't possibly

  subsist and he contrasted against

  conservatism which is just as balkanized

  but this isn't just some clear this is

  not going to be coming with the tea

  party right

  oh you don't want to talk about the Tea

  Party is a bridge to the tea party

  no I wasn't trying to bridge by where I

  don't interrupt you better this is you

  know this stuff is on my mind liberalism

  is on my mind I don't really give a fuck

  about the tea party right

  what I care about is liberalism and how

  to find some kind of liberalism that's

  that's that's that's livable and I feel

  like I feel like the Liberals that I

  know there are so many things so many

  tenants of liberalism that are off the

  table for talking about anymore because

  they're part of the brand you can't

  how comes almost becomes a little bit

  religious world absolutely wall that's

  all that's holding the family together

  right now is our belief in the wizard

  and there's these things is that if we

  if we start if we start trying to take

  out all the in essential parts of this

  or figure out what's debatable about

  what we'll discover is that everything

  that's left of liberalism today is a

  reaction to conservatives there's very

  little we're basically we whoever

  considers himself liberal I just I'm so

  not interested in politics i can

  articulate and yet and yet

  ah i think it's very true though that

  basically were missiles are basically

  like slightly advanced children they're

  like protein agers in the sense that

  they know everything they don't like

  they don't know that much about what

  they like and they know mostly about

  when they don't want to sit at the lunch

  table with somebody who doesn't know you

  know what what what the cool little

  thing to do is

  yeah I think that's true of the mass of

  all ppl nets made liberals more

  conservative than conservatives that

  kind of that kind of and it's and you

  need to look no further than the city

  that I live in to see how conservative

  can mean a lot more than your feelings

  on the gold standard what it can really

  mean is how didactic or how what's the

  word how canonical as you like to say

  you can become about saying no no here's

  the thing reactionary if you like like

  no this is the this is how we do these

  things and differing from that is taking

  this off-brand as you would say and it's

  and it's you don't mean it's really

  becoming more about like defending your

  your little house of hay from the the

  big bad wolf

  it's less about building thing you want

  to make and more about just reacting to

  what the rest of the world does

  yeah i i'm i'm now as i hear you talk in

  clock to agree with you that we

  shouldn't talk about politics that's

  awful it's awful people just feel what

  it's like for you to listen to people

  talk about anything it's very it's very

  hard to be nice to meet them and talk

  about anything I I don't want them kind

  of say I'm really glad I don't have to

  do the books for you on this but i'm

  just guessing that many potentially most

  people have not consulted you on whether

  they are even qualified to discuss many


  yeah driving i'm gonna guess driving

  yeah I know you feel very strongly about

  driving i do and there are a lot of

  terrible drivers out there too many can

  I i was going to try and get back to the

  relationship think that's too late now

  the driving thing you seem to feel very

  strongly about driving i know several

  friends that and I've gotten the feeling

  from you that has to do with your

  Alaskan background i think at one time

  you said you offered to I think put a

  broom stick up my ass because i wanted

  to drive i don't remember the exact

  context it's probably phrase you is in

  parlance with your types

  yeah but you know you grew up in Florida

  where I mean the highest elevation in

  Florida is like three phone books

  stacked on top of one another

  yeah so how would we know we don't even

  have rulers so we don't even know how

  was that is in inches or whatever you

  want you know how to drive you just you

  point the car and then and then start

  I don't know giving yourself a manicure

  and then you're at the here at you

  you've arrived and let's eat oranges

  I'm in Florida telling me why I'm in

  Florida is that baked into the culture

  there you got the gas you

  the gas at the gas know it's coming out

  last days is a part of it but there are

  some terrible drivers in Alaska to know

  I feel like it's a driving is driving as

  much more it's it it's very easy to be a

  driver it's very hard to be a good


  you have to understand you have to

  understand a lot of things you have them

  you have to be able to bring a lot of

  things to bear and you have to have

  peripheral vision and you have to be

  looking 20 seconds ahead and all these

  all these things that get in the way of

  people you know jamming out to

  Bananarama or whatever it is that people

  do in their cars you can see what

  channel is it out the implication that

  almost nobody but you is able to do well

  is that no I see good driver sometimes

  I'll be driving along a guy i'll drive

  by or sometimes you gotta wait you have

  a way for a handshake or something but

  much more like mmm

  and then he looks over it goes me it's

  like being a tough guy where you can

  just look at somebody and go like that

  guy's wiry he could be an ultimate

  fighter like you see somebody driving

  you might you might see a lady in the

  store and just go i can just tell she's

  a good driver

  yeah you just you watch a person

  navigate through their environment

  because you would've gotten too far

  grocery store you could probably tell I

  at least I can just say and I don't want

  to I don't want to go into the things we

  go into sometimes but in my neighborhood

  it's very clear is not a good driver

  just go to the grocery store right right

  well it's very clear who's not a good


  well if you can't navigate your way

  through a grocery store without

  inconveniencing other people know

  without without making yourself an

  obstacle should be a tribunal then

  you're a bad person there should just be

  there should be people there just taking

  you out of there

  I the Soylent Green people right i don't

  want my daughter this

  that's right well I don't even know if I

  want to eat that but i think i said to

  my daughter taught her this is the most

  important thing we must teach our

  children is the two rules of the grocery

  store you keep moving and you get out of

  the way if you know if you're not if

  you're not gonna keep moving

  get out of the way now here's what you

  need to get out of the way keep moving

  keep moving it out of the way that's a

  this is eight law everything you must

  know about the grocery store keep moving

  get out of the way if you can't do one

  to the other

  always always that should be that should

  be a t-shirt and and

  get out of the way should be I think

  what most people think of all the time

  and and even though i present as a

  fairly like as a fairly uh alpha

  personality let's say Who I am always

  thinking to myself do I need to get out

  of somebody's way you know i'm always

  looking in the rearview mirror I'm

  always walking around the grocery store

  answer the answer is not always yes on a

  variety of levels but the question is

  always there some people i don't get out

  of the way because they need to feel me

  in their way right moment anyway they

  don't realize that's right they don't

  understand it but it's good for them

  ultimately that I'm in their way but for

  instance I went to I went to a movie at

  an art house theater the other night and

  you know it's an arthouse it's a place

  called the Seven Gables in seattle

  average age of the of the people in this

  movie theater is 55 years old

  everyone is wearing some kind of

  Patagonia garment or some kind of thing

  from rei you know it's a very university

  audience of peanut butter carabiners

  some carabiners on people's keychains

  and they're there to watch a you know a

  small a smaller film not a widely

  released film and I swear to you there

  was more audience noise during this film

  which was a film about the Holocaust

  right i mean it's not a film that it's

  not like it's not a you get easily

  yelling at the screen in you know and

  I'm thinking to myself that this is let

  this audience is louder than the

  audience at a queen latifah film and

  it's because every person in the

  audience feels like they need to make

  some kind of some kind of audible

  response to every plot twists to every

  to every you know shocking moment

  everybody in the place has to go

  Oh mm oh yes oh

  well and you know and I felt like

  standing up in front of the screen and

  saying you people shut the fuck up like

  yeah you are this is not an audience

  participation film and you're you know

  the fact that you are grokking the the

  plot twist doesn't need to be punctuated

  with a little like a like a grown from

  you it's not different from what you're

  like you're in your grandparents yelling

  the answer on wheel of fortune

  well that's in the privacy of their own

  home but that right i mean that's the

  thing i mean you take a combination of

  the kind of like everybody gets to

  comment on everything aspects of the

  internet to find with the NPR honest of

  owning a lot of things from rei and and

  being used to be able to write letters

  to the new york times you go into a

  theater with that that's a deadly

  cocktail my friend

  yeah and I can't cause it was the x-men

  movie what was it the holocaust movie

  members there was the x-men movie have

  the whole you betcha she anything that

  has the Holocaust all go see is that

  right and what was that one about the

  Israeli it's kind of like a Munich

  except i was good about the the most sad

  agents who

  Oh kill the bird who go to to kidnap the

  Mengele type doctor and they i won't

  give the Indiana spoilers no spoilers

  but see this gets us to a deeper problem

  John it's a much broader problem it's

  what ultimately wifey Rattray depression

  which is that nobody knows how to stand

  in line if you had to bring it down to

  one thing

  well the one thing is we don't really

  know how to act around people anymore

  but the theater and all comes together

  in the theater the theater is the worst

  of humanity jammed into a room with

  sticky floors and it's everything on of

  the grocery store and grocery store

  might be worst if there was a grocery

  store that had a movie theater that

  would be the worst the absolute worst of


  it wouldn't be able to get your seat and

  people would be yelling this is a hell

  of a business model i think this this

  grocery store movie theater thing this

  like as a punitive thing it's like a

  beer pub pizza parlor movie theater

  except you're actually giving shopping

  done to you so you can have like Arsenal

  beers you come in you get if you can

  find your table first forget the foyer

  table you get past this lady here who is

  really do

  what about getting her free sample man

  i'm kind of explain something to you hi

  this is my daughter I hope she sees the

  age of four

  my concern is that if you and the rest

  of the sand people do not move away from

  the tiny bits of sausage on toothpicks

  I will literally die in a dirty safeway

  standing behind somebody cheap and

  that's just not how I see this ending

  while ghostbusters 3 is playing on bom

  bom-bom that would be good when I took

  my daughter to one movie and it was


  I can't believe what is happening is

  this is a dumb like cliche but it's a

  unbearable to go to the movies setting

  aside the eighty dollars that cost the

  two of us to see Winnie the poop

  it was awful everything about it was

  awful the the commercials before the

  trailers were awful the trailers were

  awful to move it was all awful

  yeah and like you say it's like a queen

  latifah thing like everybody's yelling

  yelling and yelling stuff and talking

  and playing with their phones

  yeah well you know I think what it is is

  that sometime when we were kids the the

  school curriculum was still based on the

  premise that we were trying to beat the

  Russians to the moon even though we we

  already beat the Russians to the moon we

  were still reading those same math books

  we we wanted to get to the moon and we

  wanted them not to get to them yeah

  right we want to get a lot of work a lot

  of your face but then somewhere there in

  the in the seventies the allen all the

  vacation of America happened and

  suddenly everybody was an artist

  nobody was a nobody had a slide rule

  anymore nobody was trying to get us to

  the moon now everybody now everybody was

  free to be and we were all our little

  hearts needed to be set free and we

  needed to talk about our feelings and

  everybody needed to share and now we

  live in a we live in a nation of 350

  million of the most important people who

  ever lived

  nobody can wait in line nobody can admit

  for a second that maybe in the grand

  scheme of things they are a peon

  and they need to shut the fuck up and

  get in line and do their jobs and get

  out of the way of better drivers who are

  on their way to someplace and only have

  nine minutes to get there i think that i

  finally understand it ok it's really

  it's a problem with at least two levels

  this is the second level is that that

  the people are in your way

  they're making take way more than 9

  minutes you're not going to get the

  chance to have a walk or a nap there in

  John's way if i understand correctly the

  first much more broad problem we're

  never gonna get the problem to ensure we

  get the problem one is that people are

  literally not being forced to literally

  listen to you because you could that's

  part of the problem is people are

  getting kinda say John I think people

  are getting a mixed message and the

  mixed messages there are people besides

  John they're giving them advice if any

  advice and that your what you have to

  share with them is getting lost and

  missed all the voices and talking about

  feelings for her to say that is fair to

  say except that with the caveat that I

  don't really care if they're listening

  I just want them to be quiet while i'm

  talking you know if they are just

  sitting there just just dumb we watch it

  really got the movie it's the movie is

  it really the movies you

  the funds are talking during you there

  talking during me or there fidgeting

  even during me they should just be

  content if they if they can't understand

  what I'm saying they should just watch a

  dust mite floating floating through the

  air or something but they need no I

  think we need to return to us don't know

  what it is and I don't 15 model of like

  rulers on the knuckles we got a whole

  room full of kids that need a lot of


  please don't distract from that if you

  can if you cannot sit in your seat and

  listen to what John has to share with

  you then maybe me know what we will move

  down to the the room with the helmet

  kids because this is for people who are

  serious about life there's a phrase for

  this can i think and it and it isn't

  just it's not John centric the phrase is

  good citizenship sure good citizenship

  is listening to John yes

  I i said this to lots of people when

  they annoy me but I think there's a

  misconception also about the idea of

  etiquette or good manners and you go

  pick up any good book on etiquette or

  good manners and it will tell you this

  is not about yelling at people about

  where the fork is good manners and

  etiquette are about making other people

  feel at ease the whole reason that we

  have manners and we have etiquette is so

  that you don't have to feel

  uncomfortable about knowing which fork

  is for the shrimp it's not about

  browbeating people about which for the

  used incorrectly and I think that's a

  big part of the problem i think we're

  gonna get hung up we get hung up on all

  the what the rules part are without

  understanding why the rule existed and

  and and what's nice about rules as

  everybody agrees on what they are and

  then you get on with life and

  unfortunately now we we we got so

  fixated on the fact that the rules were

  based on on a bad system the rules were

  based on were imposed by by European

  colonialists or or imposed by rich

  people and that in principle was bad the

  rules favored the colonialists they

  favor the rich people but more

  importantly just the fact even the rules

  that were good that there were that were

  neutral the fact that they had come from

  these these bad people these oppressive

  people was enough to make 2222 not only

  question the rule but to assume that the

  rule was bad

  interesting that perhaps rules

  altogether are a bad idea because that's

  a fallacy central conceit of the

  colonial government

  well except that everybody's got rules

  look the so it's not the rules are no I

  don't think anybody assumed except for

  anarchists ends and people on 4chan I

  don't think anybody thinks that rules

  are bad it's just that they want to they

  want to make their own set of rules they

  want to make the rules they want to they

  want to cobble together some rules from

  the things that their parents told them

  that they didn't resent some of the

  crackpot ideas that they read in some

  magazines some things that came to them

  in a dream and one or two arbitrary

  things just to make other people

  you know just like keep people jumping

  and then people walk out of the door and

  they're like these are my rules and

  everybody get out of the way you know

  and and and it may sound like that's

  what i'm doing but that's not what I'm

  doing it all again that you're doing it

  at a much deeper level my rules are are

  my rules are ancient i'm using ancient


  mhm yes but i can't my rules can't

  compete with somebody who read the

  secret because Oprah told them to and

  now they've got a bunch of rules based

  on the secret that starts to really

  degrade the whole idea of what the rule

  is you know that at the point when you

  introduce that much magical thinking I

  gotta tell you buddy i think i think

  he's moving get out of the way I mean

  that's nothing for inflation rules that

  is you know that they really is it's

  like a sort of one of those rules like

  flush you know what flush

  it's okay flush right that's a good rule

  if it's yellow

  don't let it throw not seriously don't

  dumb if it's yellow flush that's your

  money away

  sure monic flush yeah that's it but if

  you live in a tree house is a cone

  these are these are things that we're

  passing on to our children you know if

  you make a mess clean it up you know if

  you read my if you're if you read mark

  twain all this is in there if you read

  if you read Hemingway it's all there

  yeah flush right i mean if Hemingway

  doesn't have a short story titled flush

  well he doesn't but he should have and I

  think I think that messages

  it's threaded through its thread through

  all cultures right right that it's

  difficult to not be able to get

  directions and you should flush I think

  it's there that's the old man and the

  sea right so you know it's have sympathy

  for men because it's sometimes hard to

  get an erection

  that's right that's that's one of the

  top ten rules Andy taciturn I mean why

  do you think I mean they're men get a

  bad rap but it's hard to be a man from

  women me well know from men to from you

  know these men that

  that is again so that's a no on all the

  thing or fleece thing I think it's an

  allen all the thing you could be I mean

  please PLEASE came directly from Alan

  Alda huh

  please there was no fleece before Alan

  Alda you know I would I captain I don't

  know I wouldn't want to Calais no don't

  please don't use that word fallacy

  it's a it's got a dick right in the

  middle of it is that one of John were

  sisters word hates you get introduced me

  that guy may have met him he won't

  remember me but you gotta eat sounds

  like you guys are pals from the tree got

  any drum loops from that guy was really

  neat rom lives being pals with jon

  wurster is it's more difficult than it

  looks really well jon wurster is a very

  little monkey

  he's an extremely funny and extremely

  intelligent person who has carved a life

  for himself in rock and roll which is a

  world of morons and so jon wurster has

  done what a lot of smart people in

  rock-and-roll has done which is he's

  he's very careful not to he doesn't like

  put streamers up and balloons up just

  because you say something funny to him a

  couple of times you know he's not like

  oh my god hi be my friend you know use

  the heel height what did you do

  how'd you get in there who me yeah I

  wouldn't even I wouldn't even say I was

  in there I mean we we did a tour

  together and when and we like each other

  but it's there just announced to know I

  know he was playing drums in the jay

  farrar ben gibbard Jack Kerouac based

  side project band and I did I i did a

  tour with them

  that's right but I think jon wurster and

  I even though now we've known each other

  not you know known each other for a

  couple years we're still in the the the

  friendly circling stage where we say oh

  hello you

  yes well there you are arched eyebrows

  yeah like snitches care after yeah

  there's a little bit of cheer sniffing

  and it's not i I don't I never I do not

  approach someone like jon wurster with

  the expectation that he is going to


  that i am one of the greatest living men

  see this is another one that that's the

  problem the problem again with my better

  but in his case of with somebody like

  jon wurster I don't you know I don't I

  don't consider a problem because jon

  wurster probably when he's lying in bed

  at night also suspect that he may be one

  of the greatest living men and there's

  not a lot of room in town for too many

  greatest living men you can't have that

  many of them in the same small western

  town or there's gonna be a gunfight

  absolutely the pity of it is that

  because of the nature of this challenge

  is you'll never be able to have a

  benefit to help these men because first

  of all you all of you guys hate playing

  benefits but second of all the people

  who need it the most

  the men who are asking themselves these

  questions the men to men who are the men

  who are asking mi of a caliber of

  somebody who would want to hang out with

  me i think i think you're not always

  getting the help you need let alone the

  audience just don't know how you do that

  I don't know you hate playing benefits

  you be very you don't hate plan benefits

  I think you should be very clear about

  you hate had a sort of the hypocrisy of

  not paying the band for benefits and I

  have to imagine the John washer doesn't

  like people either

  yeah i mean i don't hate not being the

  band for benefits i just hate paying

  everybody but the band for benefits

  right i mean that what i wrote that

  article for the weekly just saying hey

  if you're if it's a benefit then

  everybody should work for free if it's a

  benefit and all the production people

  and the promoters are getting paid

  ya know just to clear their money aware

  this may be the third or fourth time are

  is heard it but I would see you

  republished it in the weekly after after

  having run it several times in my

  kitchen 5 i've read this particular

  article on numerous occasions before it

  was ever in whatever print is now I

  think the version but that I that I

  wrote in your kitchen was the was the

  best version it had a lot more efforts

  and i had to water it down for a lot of

  water there's a movie called rules of

  the game and sports i hope not

  it's a very old mostly read more but i

  always get the name wrong that is great

  quote from a movie

  the awful thing about life is this

  everyone has his reasons and I I for

  some reason I find that quote kind of

  Intel apply to google to get the exact

  wording right but the awful thing about

  life is this everyone has his reasons

  and I think that's a lot of what you're

  saying I think everybody has their

  reasons this is not a value judgment but

  i think i think the person who's

  standing in the middle of the fucking

  aisle while I just want to get some

  fucking pasta I can see it it's right

  there I could see it i could see the

  brand i got the kind i want the thing i

  don't want the vermicelli and I want the

  fat one in between I could see it right

  there but you know what you're standing

  there you're saying because you're

  having some kind of little little moment

  now I've got my reasons which is that

  i'm correct and i have a child I need to

  feed ya have limited amount of time that

  I would rather not spend staring at the

  back of your fucking head while you

  smelling room I could die here behind


  yeah now that person probably has there

  is no their reasons are probably wrong

  to testifying a little bit i think but

  but but go on

  well not nothing I don't think

  internment away before no no I don't

  think you're being dramatic of course

  you couldn't marry again being very

  even-keeled yeah I and that person wrong

  as the reasons are probably does have

  their reasons i doubt they have thought

  it through as thoroughly as i have and i

  doubt that they feel the certainty in

  their black heart yet i have in my very

  uh kind of off-white one

  yeah I don't think better off without

  flat-band get away from her

  I'm afraid nothing off white is a color

  you she's not sure that that's a pretty

  good name for something wrong color for

  a heart

  I don't know I don't know I just the

  thing is I'm here putting that decision

  I have a version of that same idea and

  it's a paraphrase I don't remember who

  said the original thing probably yet or

  or one of the great men of history one

  of the one of the men like me right and

  I don't when I say man I don't mean to

  exclude women now I just it's pretty

  much man

  I trusting I just like to include women

  under the overarching category of men

  right men men kind including women

  supinator students and that sort of

  frequently come out in the terms and a

  dependent clause that probably could

  have been mostly left out

  yes well you're gonna bleep all that

  anyway but uh but but the idea that i

  carry around is that everybody is have

  a difficult day like if you are having a

  difficult day you can pretty much rest

  assured that everyone else is also

  struggling to get through today and get

  home and do whatever they do and it is a

  it is it's a kind of shorthand that

  keeps me in an empathetic posture even

  surrounded as I am by morons and tools

  to know that they also are struggling

  and that they're that the fact that they

  are a moron only makes it harder for

  them and it increases the this up my

  sympathetic feeling so that I don't

  resort to murder also double murder or

  justifiable homicide or or even just

  steaming I mean my biggest problem in

  life it's steaming I spend so much time

  steaming and and I frankly my broccoli

  is limp from over steamed king- uh-huh

  but i but seriously I just can't turn it


  there's no no the house just like valve

  right now Merlin I swear to you I am

  feuding with a half a dozen piece of

  people and at least four of those six

  people don't know that we're in a feud

  I'm sitting here steaming about

  something steaming and there blindly

  going about their lives talking about

  knowing this AR the constant source of


  yeah yeah I'm pissed at them for

  something generally it's that I'm pissed

  at them because they didn't they owe me

  a phone call made and now it's too late

  now when they call I won't accept the

  call because they screwed up somehow and

  that's steaming is no good you know


  I should go to an Alcoholics Anonymous

  meeting and talk about those who don't

  do that don't do that

  I I i just want to point out one thing

  I'm not saying I'm not saying that

  because we are both right everybody has

  to be wrong because i'm not going to

  actually say that that's valid I think

  that's you can apply that if you have

  half a fucking brain

  I don't need to say that because that's

  gonna make us look bad but you should be

  able to pick that up that's a ok but

  here's the thing this is B and this is

  what you and I have in common and most

  people need to get in common with us is

  what we're not saying that what you're

  doing is wrong per se accepted as much

  as it is wrong it's just more that what

  we're saying is that our paths that we

  are introducing to you keep moving and

  get out of the way it helps everybody

  there's nothing about I defy you as one

  of the people who needs our help to say

  you show me one part of keep moving and

  get out of the way that harms people


  nothing well think about it does it's a

  Hippocratic it doesn't know only of

  moving and get out of the way is that

  you can continue to do your stupid

  thinking within the context of either

  moving or getting out of way

  take your time you can you could be full

  of your own stupid thoughts

  yep and yet also be either moving or out

  of the way

  yep and so that cart turns yeah yeah I

  what we I think we've reduced it now to

  the the colonel

  yes and I have to say trying to think

  about the grand unification theory this

  is the thing about Stephen Hawking boy

  if if his grand unification theory or

  whoever comes up with that final grand

  unification theory that that that unites

  macro physics with microbiology and it

  doesn't include keep moving or get out

  of the way it cannot be exclusive of

  keep moving or get out of the way right

  because that is a that is a core truth

  and so that truth should also be present

  in the the in in orbiting bodies large

  and small

  it's absolutely true and i can remember

  it's a theological theological argument

  design it's one of those arguments it's

  one of those arguments we're getting you

  no good god must exist because he not

  the ontological but like as because

  God's cool it's one of those it's to

  Descartes thing I don't make us because

  God's cool that they can I came from

  actually from st. Thomas Aquinas region

  originally but he I think improved on it

  here's the thing though this is what the

  Liberals need the liberals don't have

  this first far they lack are cocksure

  sense of certainty right they sometimes

  are sure but they very seldom put the

  cock in it and that is part of the


  ok now here's the other thing with the

  pocket that's another record that's

  that's true that's well I don't know

  Hawking talking doesn't work blue very


  here's here's the problem and this is

  this go straight to the Hawking I think

  it's straight to the movies and straight

  to the Liberals is that is that if

  you're going to have this supernal

  approach to things we are basically

  walking around like open everything

  turns out okay and don't question

  anything you could do a lot worse than

  to make your your your Bureau your kind

  of BS political belt and Chong you could

  do a lot worse than making it about keep

  moving and get out of the way and in

  fact if I could take it in turn it

  briefly i think that is the message that

  most of these people in place need to

  hear which is you my friend need to

  either keep moving or you need to get

  out of the way and possibly both

  right well the message the problem with

  the flow with the fleece people is that

  they they have they taken it as their

  responsibility to speak on behalf of all

  the people who they believe cannot

  either keep moving or get out of the way

  because of some disadvantage that these

  other people have or because of the fact

  that they simply need an advocate and

  the police people are the self-appointed

  advocates of all the great many people

  who either cannot keep moving or get out

  of the way and the the problem is that

  there is no one who cannot either keep

  moving or get out of the way it's not

  hurting anybody except you keep moving

  and get out of the way the fleece people

  as soon as they hear that they think

  well what about the people who can't

  keep moving

  right without our people without ever

  examining the fact that those people

  that you are supposedly quote-unquote

  defending could actually benefit to

  begin with from both keeping moving and

  getting out of the way but also you know

  what maybe they don't need somebody who

  shops at whole foods to help explain

  their life to other people

  well that and that's what we that's the

  problem we get into so now not only

  there's the original person who needs to

  lose either keep moving and economically

  and now there's meeting everyone

  now there's a person in there now

  there's a fleecy beardy person and his

  wife with that with the big hoop

  earrings and the Guatemalan purse she

  made the earring she's thinking of doing

  it as a business and they're standing

  there now they're standing there with

  the with the original person who should

  have kept moving or getting out of the

  way and they're they're trying to argue

  with you about how this person you know

  how they need an extra minute or how

  this person shouldn't be asked to you

  know they don't understand what you mean

  or and this I don't they saw something

  in the nation and with some statistics

  about both getting out of the way and

  keeping moving

  yeah there's a whole European influence

  from back in the you know 1,500 here you

  got a whole cortez the killer thing

  going on

  well the presumption is that that you're

  you you're getting out of the way of

  someone who's superior minutes it

  instantly becomes a Marxist problem yeah

  there's nothing to overthink your John

  does your dad is nothing to overthink

  this is this is empirical it's a priori

  yeah be safe to say that but you know

  that the police people will other police

  people would overthink


  I've done