01: “Keep Moving and Get Out of the Way”
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hello how are you hello Merlin I'm late
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again it's alright i'm usually late to
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everything so this is my just deserts
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are you you seem like a late person it's
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not that I'm late it's that it's that I
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don't get there on time okay and that's
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because I don't leave the house with
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enough time to get where I'm going and I
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don't think that's the same as being
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I think that's I think that is a that is
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a big question that has more to do with
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like how you perceive space and time so
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it's it's more of a science problem
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yes yeah i mean the thing i was in order
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for you to be late you would have to
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have some interest in other people i
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think how what would that be like I
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don't know honey this book probably
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wikipedia it's been like if you were
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late you would be kind of conscious of
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the fact that there are other people
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that had things you need to do and I
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don't think you and I suffer from that I
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think that the results a lot of people
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back there constantly thinking like how
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will this house affect other people
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right who cares is my first time they
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assume that they think that I wouldn't
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yeah right well other people right there
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the problem I'll clearly uh-huh yeah I
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mean you know should be a breeze
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you know for all the all those other
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people well this is the thing I'll i
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leave the house if I have somewhere to
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go I leave the house in plenty of time
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to get there if there weren't other
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people clogging the roads necessitating
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stoplights right if there were not other
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people clogging the roads there would
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not need to be stoplights so I'm talking
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coming here your roads by roads i have a
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sense of how long it takes for me to get
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from hearsay to the University of
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Washington and that takes nine minutes
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but if there are other people on the
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roads which there so often are then it
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takes anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes
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which is infuriating so i usually leave
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here with nine minutes just despair
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sometimes 10 if I if I feel like I wanna
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take a stroll in my car and the building
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it's never enough time people people
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related delays I i struggle with it i
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used to be eternally late person and I
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spent many a years of my life with a bus
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or a partner who was the top permanently
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late like just crazy like you're
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supposed to be there at dinner for six
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people and you arrive like as deserves
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being served like offensively late and I
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became sensitive about it because I felt
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badly and something it's her but that's
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just that was like that was a you know /
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flaw and I was a flaw that i shared and
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together it was terrible
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that's so a lot of relationships get
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weird right you're both terrible at the
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same thing and now I'm really sensitive
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about it but i'm not i haven't gotten
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that great at it i feel like i do what
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you do i think is I in my head I got an
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idea of the greatest conceivable time
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I've ever made to do this yeah right you
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must understand why you have done
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yeah right like you're in your big blue
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van you're driving around you gotta go
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from place to place show to show you
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must have some idea in your head
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well it would never take more than five
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hours to get to austin one time I made
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it in two hours so therefore up I'd be
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there about an hour-and-a-half yeah you
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may not do that cuz you gotta do it for
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your job but like I feel like I do that
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all the time I think oh I've got time to
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get a coffee or I've got time to go stop
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by the office into this thing right
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animal case why the time to sleep for 20
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more minutes and take a stroll
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i'm very curious about something you
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said a moment ago which is that that to
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people who have the two people with the
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same that they do the same things badly
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that's how relationships can we get
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weird that that a that resonated with me
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and ethical to experience
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I'm not sure I I think I mean I hadn't
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thought about it but I i would still
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just this moment it's never occurred to
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me that I did anything bad in any of my
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relationships no I think that's a core
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competency for yeah exactly i'm now I'm
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wondering right wow I always thought it
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was that she did everything bad now I'm
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starting to consider the possibility
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that maybe yeah when the colts not
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making sailboats right they say look we
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were the cook people we make the coke
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let other people make the sailboats why
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would you try to sell cool right yeah
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oh just saying I think the cocaine
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people do make sailboats
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oh sure and like brats prop planes
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yeah well or at least they say
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reengineer sailboats second i should
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think about this more but there's
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probably something to it
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I always felt like if you could well the
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good things that would be terrible
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different things is a good idea but I've
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always believed that you should both be
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able to mostly put up with the same
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stuff I think that's helpful but the
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problem is like for example if you're
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both messy then there's never any
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countervailing force to make the
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housetop being messy it becomes
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synergistically messy right but the
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problem with that is if one person is
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messy and one person's clean then you're
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out war in a different way
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I mean I I felt this about about
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introversion and extraversion because as
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I think you and I have talked about this
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but i'm i'm a very introverted person
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despite being a an entertainer and for
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many years I thought the pan entertainer
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did you snicker at entertainer I find
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extremely entertaining but being
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especially when you're off stage but now
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it is very introverted part no no I'm i
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think i am an introvert and and that the
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definition i use the description i use
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of that is that if you if you find a
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room full of people no matter how much
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you're enjoying the experience are
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enjoying their company if you find a
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room full of people ultimately draining
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and you want to and you need to get away
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and get a loan in order to recharge
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okay then you're an introvert and
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compared to somebody who finds a room
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full of people invigorating and they
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hate to be alone and they want to be in
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other people's company and they find
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that they find that's how they charge
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uh-huh that's my definition ok it takes
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a little self-serving no I mean I i
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would want to hear a little how you
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contrast that with a like a psychotic
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loner or sociopath mclonergan sexy i'd
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say that that person was an introvert
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also sure but in any case I transferred
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it had tried for a long time to only
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date other introverted people because i
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was tired because i didn't like
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extroverts making demands on my time and
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space but i found that one year in a
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relationship even with another
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introverted the person who is most
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introverted becomes the introvert in the
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relationship and even another
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introverted will exhibit extroverted
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tendencies in relationship to the other
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person right so that so this in this
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person who would normally be like Oh
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leave me alone I kind of just want to be
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by myself is suddenly in the posture of
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like why don't you ever want to do
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anything or why don't you ever want to
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just hang out and why don't we ever move
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it seems got on a molecular level it
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seems like there should be some kind of
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cancelling out going on with you got a
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very messy person who is with a very
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clean person I think I i think the
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molecular science would say that
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therefore you would have an average
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yeah place of it i think they practice
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yeah relationship and human beings
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consistently fail to be some scientific
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you know like it and that's the problem
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with psychology psychology keeps for 450
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years as presented itself as a science
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and there's really no there's no
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demonstrable proof that any of it is is
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working it's just it's just a lot of
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just a lot of jabber jaws you think it's
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a lot easier to get some and make a
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no I don't know if it's a science as
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much as it is like well so where's the
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line between a psychologist and a
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hmm alrighty that's the ash had a
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yeah that's the psychologist is is is
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using the same techniques of talking and
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listening to her but there but they're
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undergirding it with some sense that
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they have a scientific tool box there
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listening but they're listening with a
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scientific tool box rather than
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listening with compassion or something
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and I said what you mean are you saying
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you're saying that there but you're
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talking about like a clinical soar like
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a practicing psychologist as opposed to
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like a scholarly psychologist you're
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saying how is that different from a
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minister and minister is somebody who
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comes in and is a as a student of the
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mind and the heart to try and give
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people comfort and so you're talking
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psychologists more like in terms of like
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a therapist like somebody who would help
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well but what is what is what is a like
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an academic psychologist if not a just
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someone teaching practical psychologists
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i guess i don't know I'm hmm it seems it
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seems to me that that there for for many
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many years the the whole premise of the
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mental health industry was based on a
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reading of Freud and people spent
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decades saying that a lot of the lot of
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women's insecurity was based on the fact
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that they had penis and B and then one
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day we decided that that was not true
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uh-huh in fact it was silly but we
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didn't we didn't throw the the Freud out
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with the bathwater now and now we think
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that you know everybody has you know
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that people's Institute
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30 is based on I don't know what my god
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they're the book stores are full of the
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most of their shelves of books talking
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about your insecurities and the root
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causes of it was funny those if you go
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back you look at Aristotle or Descartes
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her are a lot of those heavy hitters
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back in the day people who laid the
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groundwork for obviously philosophy but
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really also for science I mean it's not
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what we would call science today but but
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back then philosophy was was I think
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seen as part of science it was a way of
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understanding you know how the mind
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works how the universe worked and it
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seems like a lot of it was based on
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these physicalities things like
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eventually come to me things like humors
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and stuff like that but there were all
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these like Theodoric of York kind of
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ways to explain based on the physical
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things like what why the mental things
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happen and the funny thing with the
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fried stuff is it seemed to more and
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more yeah you could say well this
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woman's the reason this woman is
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hysterical from the Greek is because she
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has a uterus so clearly she's crazy if i
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had a universe i would be hysterical to
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sure and she wants a wenis on top of it
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that's awkward you know but it's funny
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because now we're back around to the to
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the to the body stuff where it is it is
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very much it seems to be much more about
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yeah it's just a black bile is rising up
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what about you call now I get confused
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because because i think i've read too
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many reviews of REM albums early mm
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there's some words rhyme not shifting
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bodily humors are ways of describing a
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so you not know that the quick pop quiz
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bee call it was because be colic one of
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the memories no bucolic is like a
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pastoral setting up my second line as
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your pastoral is not humor no okay no
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problem attic automatic is yes that's
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what about birds ask birds ask yelling
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like that style of the birds
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no I think that's in the same family as
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bucolic ok it's birds ask
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you know that's the thing is I I
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understand what everybody wants to
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explain everything I think you could
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argue that you and I i would also like
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to try and explain everything but you
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know what it is with science its to tell
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the certainty I'm troubled by the
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certainty like to me good science should
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always be going but you know I could be
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yeah I am see I'm guilty of that I'm
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guilty of using psychology to explain
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myself and other people with a with a
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with a fair degree of certainty and I
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think I think I keep in the back of my
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mind the the constant idea that i'm i'm
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just guessing but I don't always let the
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other person o.o i think i think that
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what I'm saying is just a theory
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I say it as though i really believe that
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what's the point that's good writing
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good good writing is you know is I'm
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habit the viewpoint that's correct
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mmm yeah yeah but I'm sitting across
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from somebody saying you know your
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fucking problem is yes it's a little bit
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harder for them to see that i'm just
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playing a character and in this case
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it's the character of somebody who knows
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what they're fucking problem is that's a
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good point it is it's it's def a good
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point sense of that is a really big
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uh-huh yeah but I think it's a problem
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with the with the world i mean like i
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say i'm not necessarily that's the
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second one just for curious what's your
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yeah but no one is a problem i really
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mean opportunities to ya opportunities
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take exciting interrupting John how's
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that how is that a problem with the rest
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the problem with the rest of the world
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is the rest of the world is not
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listening carefully to me now the
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problem is that the there are a lot of
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people who put their their dumb theories
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down advance their dumb theories in
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their dumb books but they don't in order
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to sell a book you don't say on the last
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page but maybe everything i just wrote
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is just a dumb theory that I
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what up so I think for yourself love the
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author is not that much money in saying
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but I could be wrong right so so so
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these books go out and and gullible
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people read them and they think oh now I
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know and they don't know anything
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yeah or you know or or what it is again
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it's a toolbox and and and it's only as
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good as the carpenter your toolbox is
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only as good as your carpenter ii the
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same toolbox that psychologists
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listening with I just
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hey how a little piece of paper here i
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wanna make sure I'm keeping all these
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straight but I think I think I think
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I think all this is problematic I think
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more people should be like John Roderick
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and and just say that it a thing is a
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thing but on the other hand i'm also
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yes chuckling that's right service work
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is the thing that troubles me I think
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with a lot of this the science stuff is
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I mean anybody who's out there doing
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straight science a lot of them are well
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first of all they probably working on
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boner drugs a lot of them got them thank
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God but they but I mean if you're doing
◼
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straight science you really are doing a
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kind of you know existential improv
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we're trying to stop you're seeing what
◼
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happens you're saying well here's what
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we know and part of being a good
◼
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scientist it seems to me is to be able
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to go away I but here's the thing we
◼
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said but here's that doesn't mean all
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these other things there's not this ergo
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thing that I because I said that then
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necessarily all these other things with
◼
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that way the exams feels like good
◼
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science says a very specific thing based
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on evidence in context and I feel like
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the context gets left out you know and
◼
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this is why so much of the quote-unquote
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research that you hear on you know in
◼
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newspapers and NPR is is so goofy a lot
◼
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of the time the first of all it's been
◼
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it's been strained and drain through all
◼
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these different sources and a lot of
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times i bet the people who conducted the
◼
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primary research we go how in the hell
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did this ever become like don't use
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aluminum pans anymore
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yeah right i don't know if that's true
◼
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but like I don't know what psychology
◼
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stuff it's hard and it seems like it's
◼
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almost like what like optometrists and
◼
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Dennis and stuff it's like
◼
►
chiropodist thank you the further you
◼
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are from like serious science the more
◼
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serious we become the more you demand of
◼
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course the height of this being phd's
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demanding that they be called dr. right
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yeah right for bastards call somebody
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with a PhD dr arrogant bastards yes I
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think it right on the diploma
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I feel like real scientists are people
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who are combining baking powder and
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vinegar and making volcanoes and as you
◼
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as you stray from that core science
◼
►
original science of volcano
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manufacturing it just gets into fruity
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pebbles out there in every direction and
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at and in all honesty I think that
◼
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adulthood is a process of becoming
◼
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comfortable with ambiguity and i know
◼
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this about you that you are comfortable
◼
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with a certain amount of ambiguity
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yeah i know i was i was trying to trying
◼
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to be nice to draw on that out i know i
◼
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know you're not comfortable with
◼
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ambiguity but I aspire to be comfortable
◼
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with a certain amount of ambiguity
◼
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because i know that i know that much the
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life that I perceive is really a
◼
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television show that I've been living in
◼
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since I was a little kid and so I don't
◼
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want to get caught masturbating because
◼
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you're an introvert well being an
◼
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introvert is not easy it's really not
◼
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know and I know a lot of the people
◼
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listening to this podcast are introverts
◼
►
because that is by definition who
◼
►
listens to podcasts people who like to
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►
hear other people's voices only through
◼
►
their car stereo speakers right rather
◼
►
than having people sitting in the car
◼
►
with them talking to them know where you
◼
►
come up with this stuff
◼
►
it's it's just a theory um I think in
◼
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some ways the people who are most loudly
◼
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saying things like in our case we're not
◼
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where we are scientists of a kind I
◼
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imagine you know scientists sizes and
◼
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not in the sense of science but in a
◼
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sense of the you know a social
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yeah we're sky interests we know person
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that's good that is that is good where
◼
►
blue sky and tests we understand that
◼
►
should be we understand how people
◼
►
should behave we understand the the like
◼
►
Mitzi and best of all possible worlds
◼
►
yeah we're actually just here to help
◼
►
where the pan gloss overs playing
◼
►
glossary so I got nothing
◼
►
the odd so the problem is that sometimes
◼
►
with people who put things most most
◼
►
strongly but you know what
◼
►
it's part of the I think you got your
◼
►
copy this the contrarian screed the road
◼
►
where if you can find you know invented
◼
►
sarcasm if you are if you can find any
◼
►
hole in any of it doesn't matter whether
◼
►
you agree with it or not you just got to
◼
►
go explore the whole if you don't mind
◼
►
my saying and i think that's that's a
◼
►
big part of it is is you might your i
◼
►
might say the most ridiculous bombastic
◼
►
just just to say that thing but then
◼
►
you're okay arguing about and eventually
◼
►
going home you know maybe it is this
◼
►
other thing and what bugs me is the
◼
►
personal brand stuff we're like you're
◼
►
not allowed to you know if you're gonna
◼
►
be on brand you're going to be that guy
◼
►
who put out that useless book or you're
◼
►
going to be this person who's putting
◼
►
out this useful study that like you're
◼
►
going to be harmed if anything about it
◼
►
is shown to be incomplete inconsistent
◼
►
or untrue and then your whole world
◼
►
falls apart because you know what I mean
◼
►
look and that's the thing is they now
◼
►
now you guys gotta defend that until
◼
►
he's dead I feel like in a way that's
◼
►
true that's true of liberalism now or
◼
►
that's true that's true of the whole
◼
►
liberal half of this country who are so
◼
►
on brand and over the years the brand
◼
►
has changed and every new addition to it
◼
►
the the Liberals feel like they need to
◼
►
embrace it and and anonymous eyes it and
◼
►
after a while the brand is so ungainly
◼
►
itself rife with internal contradictions
◼
►
that liberalism has become meaningless
◼
►
or if not meaningless at least it's it's
◼
►
a it's it's a multi-headed Hydra that
◼
►
can't possibly live it can't possibly
◼
►
subsist and he contrasted against
◼
►
conservatism which is just as balkanized
◼
►
but this isn't just some clear this is
◼
►
not going to be coming with the tea
◼
►
oh you don't want to talk about the Tea
◼
►
Party is a bridge to the tea party
◼
►
no I wasn't trying to bridge by where I
◼
►
don't interrupt you better this is you
◼
►
know this stuff is on my mind liberalism
◼
►
is on my mind I don't really give a fuck
◼
►
about the tea party right
◼
►
what I care about is liberalism and how
◼
►
to find some kind of liberalism that's
◼
►
that's that's that's livable and I feel
◼
►
like I feel like the Liberals that I
◼
►
know there are so many things so many
◼
►
tenants of liberalism that are off the
◼
►
table for talking about anymore because
◼
►
they're part of the brand you can't
◼
►
how comes almost becomes a little bit
◼
►
religious world absolutely wall that's
◼
►
all that's holding the family together
◼
►
right now is our belief in the wizard
◼
►
and there's these things is that if we
◼
►
if we start if we start trying to take
◼
►
out all the in essential parts of this
◼
►
or figure out what's debatable about
◼
►
what we'll discover is that everything
◼
►
that's left of liberalism today is a
◼
►
reaction to conservatives there's very
◼
►
little we're basically we whoever
◼
►
considers himself liberal I just I'm so
◼
►
not interested in politics i can
◼
►
articulate and yet and yet
◼
►
ah i think it's very true though that
◼
►
basically were missiles are basically
◼
►
like slightly advanced children they're
◼
►
like protein agers in the sense that
◼
►
they know everything they don't like
◼
►
they don't know that much about what
◼
►
they like and they know mostly about
◼
►
when they don't want to sit at the lunch
◼
►
table with somebody who doesn't know you
◼
►
know what what what the cool little
◼
►
yeah I think that's true of the mass of
◼
►
all ppl nets made liberals more
◼
►
conservative than conservatives that
◼
►
kind of that kind of and it's and you
◼
►
need to look no further than the city
◼
►
that I live in to see how conservative
◼
►
can mean a lot more than your feelings
◼
►
on the gold standard what it can really
◼
►
mean is how didactic or how what's the
◼
►
word how canonical as you like to say
◼
►
you can become about saying no no here's
◼
►
the thing reactionary if you like like
◼
►
no this is the this is how we do these
◼
►
things and differing from that is taking
◼
►
this off-brand as you would say and it's
◼
►
and it's you don't mean it's really
◼
►
becoming more about like defending your
◼
►
your little house of hay from the the
◼
►
it's less about building thing you want
◼
►
to make and more about just reacting to
◼
►
what the rest of the world does
◼
►
yeah i i'm i'm now as i hear you talk in
◼
►
clock to agree with you that we
◼
►
shouldn't talk about politics that's
◼
►
awful it's awful people just feel what
◼
►
it's like for you to listen to people
◼
►
talk about anything it's very it's very
◼
►
hard to be nice to meet them and talk
◼
►
about anything I I don't want them kind
◼
►
of say I'm really glad I don't have to
◼
►
do the books for you on this but i'm
◼
►
just guessing that many potentially most
◼
►
people have not consulted you on whether
◼
►
they are even qualified to discuss many
◼
►
yeah driving i'm gonna guess driving
◼
►
yeah I know you feel very strongly about
◼
►
driving i do and there are a lot of
◼
►
terrible drivers out there too many can
◼
►
I i was going to try and get back to the
◼
►
relationship think that's too late now
◼
►
the driving thing you seem to feel very
◼
►
strongly about driving i know several
◼
►
friends that and I've gotten the feeling
◼
►
from you that has to do with your
◼
►
Alaskan background i think at one time
◼
►
you said you offered to I think put a
◼
►
broom stick up my ass because i wanted
◼
►
to drive i don't remember the exact
◼
►
context it's probably phrase you is in
◼
►
parlance with your types
◼
►
yeah but you know you grew up in Florida
◼
►
where I mean the highest elevation in
◼
►
Florida is like three phone books
◼
►
stacked on top of one another
◼
►
yeah so how would we know we don't even
◼
►
have rulers so we don't even know how
◼
►
was that is in inches or whatever you
◼
►
want you know how to drive you just you
◼
►
point the car and then and then start
◼
►
I don't know giving yourself a manicure
◼
►
and then you're at the here at you
◼
►
you've arrived and let's eat oranges
◼
►
I'm in Florida telling me why I'm in
◼
►
Florida is that baked into the culture
◼
►
there you got the gas you
◼
►
the gas at the gas know it's coming out
◼
►
last days is a part of it but there are
◼
►
some terrible drivers in Alaska to know
◼
►
I feel like it's a driving is driving as
◼
►
much more it's it it's very easy to be a
◼
►
driver it's very hard to be a good
◼
►
you have to understand you have to
◼
►
understand a lot of things you have them
◼
►
you have to be able to bring a lot of
◼
►
things to bear and you have to have
◼
►
peripheral vision and you have to be
◼
►
looking 20 seconds ahead and all these
◼
►
all these things that get in the way of
◼
►
people you know jamming out to
◼
►
Bananarama or whatever it is that people
◼
►
do in their cars you can see what
◼
►
channel is it out the implication that
◼
►
almost nobody but you is able to do well
◼
►
is that no I see good driver sometimes
◼
►
I'll be driving along a guy i'll drive
◼
►
by or sometimes you gotta wait you have
◼
►
a way for a handshake or something but
◼
►
and then he looks over it goes me it's
◼
►
like being a tough guy where you can
◼
►
just look at somebody and go like that
◼
►
guy's wiry he could be an ultimate
◼
►
fighter like you see somebody driving
◼
►
you might you might see a lady in the
◼
►
store and just go i can just tell she's
◼
►
yeah you just you watch a person
◼
►
navigate through their environment
◼
►
because you would've gotten too far
◼
►
grocery store you could probably tell I
◼
►
at least I can just say and I don't want
◼
►
to I don't want to go into the things we
◼
►
go into sometimes but in my neighborhood
◼
►
it's very clear is not a good driver
◼
►
just go to the grocery store right right
◼
►
well it's very clear who's not a good
◼
►
well if you can't navigate your way
◼
►
through a grocery store without
◼
►
inconveniencing other people know
◼
►
without without making yourself an
◼
►
obstacle should be a tribunal then
◼
►
you're a bad person there should just be
◼
►
there should be people there just taking
◼
►
I the Soylent Green people right i don't
◼
►
want my daughter this
◼
►
that's right well I don't even know if I
◼
►
want to eat that but i think i said to
◼
►
my daughter taught her this is the most
◼
►
important thing we must teach our
◼
►
children is the two rules of the grocery
◼
►
store you keep moving and you get out of
◼
►
the way if you know if you're not if
◼
►
you're not gonna keep moving
◼
►
get out of the way now here's what you
◼
►
need to get out of the way keep moving
◼
►
keep moving it out of the way that's a
◼
►
this is eight law everything you must
◼
►
know about the grocery store keep moving
◼
►
get out of the way if you can't do one
◼
►
always always that should be that should
◼
►
get out of the way should be I think
◼
►
what most people think of all the time
◼
►
and and even though i present as a
◼
►
fairly like as a fairly uh alpha
◼
►
personality let's say Who I am always
◼
►
thinking to myself do I need to get out
◼
►
of somebody's way you know i'm always
◼
►
looking in the rearview mirror I'm
◼
►
always walking around the grocery store
◼
►
answer the answer is not always yes on a
◼
►
variety of levels but the question is
◼
►
always there some people i don't get out
◼
►
of the way because they need to feel me
◼
►
in their way right moment anyway they
◼
►
don't realize that's right they don't
◼
►
understand it but it's good for them
◼
►
ultimately that I'm in their way but for
◼
►
instance I went to I went to a movie at
◼
►
an art house theater the other night and
◼
►
you know it's an arthouse it's a place
◼
►
called the Seven Gables in seattle
◼
►
average age of the of the people in this
◼
►
movie theater is 55 years old
◼
►
everyone is wearing some kind of
◼
►
Patagonia garment or some kind of thing
◼
►
from rei you know it's a very university
◼
►
audience of peanut butter carabiners
◼
►
some carabiners on people's keychains
◼
►
and they're there to watch a you know a
◼
►
small a smaller film not a widely
◼
►
released film and I swear to you there
◼
►
was more audience noise during this film
◼
►
which was a film about the Holocaust
◼
►
right i mean it's not a film that it's
◼
►
not like it's not a you get easily
◼
►
yelling at the screen in you know and
◼
►
I'm thinking to myself that this is let
◼
►
this audience is louder than the
◼
►
audience at a queen latifah film and
◼
►
it's because every person in the
◼
►
audience feels like they need to make
◼
►
some kind of some kind of audible
◼
►
response to every plot twists to every
◼
►
to every you know shocking moment
◼
►
everybody in the place has to go
◼
►
well and you know and I felt like
◼
►
standing up in front of the screen and
◼
►
saying you people shut the fuck up like
◼
►
yeah you are this is not an audience
◼
►
participation film and you're you know
◼
►
the fact that you are grokking the the
◼
►
plot twist doesn't need to be punctuated
◼
►
with a little like a like a grown from
◼
►
you it's not different from what you're
◼
►
like you're in your grandparents yelling
◼
►
the answer on wheel of fortune
◼
►
well that's in the privacy of their own
◼
►
home but that right i mean that's the
◼
►
thing i mean you take a combination of
◼
►
the kind of like everybody gets to
◼
►
comment on everything aspects of the
◼
►
internet to find with the NPR honest of
◼
►
owning a lot of things from rei and and
◼
►
being used to be able to write letters
◼
►
to the new york times you go into a
◼
►
theater with that that's a deadly
◼
►
yeah and I can't cause it was the x-men
◼
►
movie what was it the holocaust movie
◼
►
members there was the x-men movie have
◼
►
the whole you betcha she anything that
◼
►
has the Holocaust all go see is that
◼
►
right and what was that one about the
◼
►
Israeli it's kind of like a Munich
◼
►
except i was good about the the most sad
◼
►
Oh kill the bird who go to to kidnap the
◼
►
Mengele type doctor and they i won't
◼
►
give the Indiana spoilers no spoilers
◼
►
but see this gets us to a deeper problem
◼
►
John it's a much broader problem it's
◼
►
what ultimately wifey Rattray depression
◼
►
which is that nobody knows how to stand
◼
►
in line if you had to bring it down to
◼
►
well the one thing is we don't really
◼
►
know how to act around people anymore
◼
►
but the theater and all comes together
◼
►
in the theater the theater is the worst
◼
►
of humanity jammed into a room with
◼
►
sticky floors and it's everything on of
◼
►
the grocery store and grocery store
◼
►
might be worst if there was a grocery
◼
►
store that had a movie theater that
◼
►
would be the worst the absolute worst of
◼
►
it wouldn't be able to get your seat and
◼
►
people would be yelling this is a hell
◼
►
of a business model i think this this
◼
►
grocery store movie theater thing this
◼
►
like as a punitive thing it's like a
◼
►
beer pub pizza parlor movie theater
◼
►
except you're actually giving shopping
◼
►
done to you so you can have like Arsenal
◼
►
beers you come in you get if you can
◼
►
find your table first forget the foyer
◼
►
table you get past this lady here who is
◼
►
what about getting her free sample man
◼
►
i'm kind of explain something to you hi
◼
►
this is my daughter I hope she sees the
◼
►
my concern is that if you and the rest
◼
►
of the sand people do not move away from
◼
►
the tiny bits of sausage on toothpicks
◼
►
I will literally die in a dirty safeway
◼
►
standing behind somebody cheap and
◼
►
that's just not how I see this ending
◼
►
while ghostbusters 3 is playing on bom
◼
►
bom-bom that would be good when I took
◼
►
my daughter to one movie and it was
◼
►
I can't believe what is happening is
◼
►
this is a dumb like cliche but it's a
◼
►
unbearable to go to the movies setting
◼
►
aside the eighty dollars that cost the
◼
►
two of us to see Winnie the poop
◼
►
it was awful everything about it was
◼
►
awful the the commercials before the
◼
►
trailers were awful the trailers were
◼
►
awful to move it was all awful
◼
►
yeah and like you say it's like a queen
◼
►
latifah thing like everybody's yelling
◼
►
yelling and yelling stuff and talking
◼
►
and playing with their phones
◼
►
yeah well you know I think what it is is
◼
►
that sometime when we were kids the the
◼
►
school curriculum was still based on the
◼
►
premise that we were trying to beat the
◼
►
Russians to the moon even though we we
◼
►
already beat the Russians to the moon we
◼
►
were still reading those same math books
◼
►
we we wanted to get to the moon and we
◼
►
wanted them not to get to them yeah
◼
►
right we want to get a lot of work a lot
◼
►
of your face but then somewhere there in
◼
►
the in the seventies the allen all the
◼
►
vacation of America happened and
◼
►
suddenly everybody was an artist
◼
►
nobody was a nobody had a slide rule
◼
►
anymore nobody was trying to get us to
◼
►
the moon now everybody now everybody was
◼
►
free to be and we were all our little
◼
►
hearts needed to be set free and we
◼
►
needed to talk about our feelings and
◼
►
everybody needed to share and now we
◼
►
live in a we live in a nation of 350
◼
►
million of the most important people who
◼
►
nobody can wait in line nobody can admit
◼
►
for a second that maybe in the grand
◼
►
scheme of things they are a peon
◼
►
and they need to shut the fuck up and
◼
►
get in line and do their jobs and get
◼
►
out of the way of better drivers who are
◼
►
on their way to someplace and only have
◼
►
nine minutes to get there i think that i
◼
►
finally understand it ok it's really
◼
►
it's a problem with at least two levels
◼
►
this is the second level is that that
◼
►
the people are in your way
◼
►
they're making take way more than 9
◼
►
minutes you're not going to get the
◼
►
chance to have a walk or a nap there in
◼
►
John's way if i understand correctly the
◼
►
first much more broad problem we're
◼
►
never gonna get the problem to ensure we
◼
►
get the problem one is that people are
◼
►
literally not being forced to literally
◼
►
listen to you because you could that's
◼
►
part of the problem is people are
◼
►
getting kinda say John I think people
◼
►
are getting a mixed message and the
◼
►
mixed messages there are people besides
◼
►
John they're giving them advice if any
◼
►
advice and that your what you have to
◼
►
share with them is getting lost and
◼
►
missed all the voices and talking about
◼
►
feelings for her to say that is fair to
◼
►
say except that with the caveat that I
◼
►
don't really care if they're listening
◼
►
I just want them to be quiet while i'm
◼
►
talking you know if they are just
◼
►
sitting there just just dumb we watch it
◼
►
really got the movie it's the movie is
◼
►
it really the movies you
◼
►
the funds are talking during you there
◼
►
talking during me or there fidgeting
◼
►
even during me they should just be
◼
►
content if they if they can't understand
◼
►
what I'm saying they should just watch a
◼
►
dust mite floating floating through the
◼
►
air or something but they need no I
◼
►
think we need to return to us don't know
◼
►
what it is and I don't 15 model of like
◼
►
rulers on the knuckles we got a whole
◼
►
room full of kids that need a lot of
◼
►
please don't distract from that if you
◼
►
can if you cannot sit in your seat and
◼
►
listen to what John has to share with
◼
►
you then maybe me know what we will move
◼
►
down to the the room with the helmet
◼
►
kids because this is for people who are
◼
►
serious about life there's a phrase for
◼
►
this can i think and it and it isn't
◼
►
just it's not John centric the phrase is
◼
►
good citizenship sure good citizenship
◼
►
is listening to John yes
◼
►
I i said this to lots of people when
◼
►
they annoy me but I think there's a
◼
►
misconception also about the idea of
◼
►
etiquette or good manners and you go
◼
►
pick up any good book on etiquette or
◼
►
good manners and it will tell you this
◼
►
is not about yelling at people about
◼
►
where the fork is good manners and
◼
►
etiquette are about making other people
◼
►
feel at ease the whole reason that we
◼
►
have manners and we have etiquette is so
◼
►
that you don't have to feel
◼
►
uncomfortable about knowing which fork
◼
►
is for the shrimp it's not about
◼
►
browbeating people about which for the
◼
►
used incorrectly and I think that's a
◼
►
big part of the problem i think we're
◼
►
gonna get hung up we get hung up on all
◼
►
the what the rules part are without
◼
►
understanding why the rule existed and
◼
►
and and what's nice about rules as
◼
►
everybody agrees on what they are and
◼
►
then you get on with life and
◼
►
unfortunately now we we we got so
◼
►
fixated on the fact that the rules were
◼
►
based on on a bad system the rules were
◼
►
based on were imposed by by European
◼
►
colonialists or or imposed by rich
◼
►
people and that in principle was bad the
◼
►
rules favored the colonialists they
◼
►
favor the rich people but more
◼
►
importantly just the fact even the rules
◼
►
that were good that there were that were
◼
►
neutral the fact that they had come from
◼
►
these these bad people these oppressive
◼
►
people was enough to make 2222 not only
◼
►
question the rule but to assume that the
◼
►
interesting that perhaps rules
◼
►
altogether are a bad idea because that's
◼
►
a fallacy central conceit of the
◼
►
well except that everybody's got rules
◼
►
look the so it's not the rules are no I
◼
►
don't think anybody assumed except for
◼
►
anarchists ends and people on 4chan I
◼
►
don't think anybody thinks that rules
◼
►
are bad it's just that they want to they
◼
►
want to make their own set of rules they
◼
►
want to make the rules they want to they
◼
►
want to cobble together some rules from
◼
►
the things that their parents told them
◼
►
that they didn't resent some of the
◼
►
crackpot ideas that they read in some
◼
►
magazines some things that came to them
◼
►
in a dream and one or two arbitrary
◼
►
things just to make other people
◼
►
you know just like keep people jumping
◼
►
and then people walk out of the door and
◼
►
they're like these are my rules and
◼
►
everybody get out of the way you know
◼
►
and and and it may sound like that's
◼
►
what i'm doing but that's not what I'm
◼
►
doing it all again that you're doing it
◼
►
at a much deeper level my rules are are
◼
►
my rules are ancient i'm using ancient
◼
►
mhm yes but i can't my rules can't
◼
►
compete with somebody who read the
◼
►
secret because Oprah told them to and
◼
►
now they've got a bunch of rules based
◼
►
on the secret that starts to really
◼
►
degrade the whole idea of what the rule
◼
►
is you know that at the point when you
◼
►
introduce that much magical thinking I
◼
►
gotta tell you buddy i think i think
◼
►
he's moving get out of the way I mean
◼
►
that's nothing for inflation rules that
◼
►
is you know that they really is it's
◼
►
like a sort of one of those rules like
◼
►
flush you know what flush
◼
►
it's okay flush right that's a good rule
◼
►
don't let it throw not seriously don't
◼
►
dumb if it's yellow flush that's your
◼
►
sure monic flush yeah that's it but if
◼
►
you live in a tree house is a cone
◼
►
these are these are things that we're
◼
►
passing on to our children you know if
◼
►
you make a mess clean it up you know if
◼
►
you read my if you're if you read mark
◼
►
twain all this is in there if you read
◼
►
if you read Hemingway it's all there
◼
►
yeah flush right i mean if Hemingway
◼
►
doesn't have a short story titled flush
◼
►
well he doesn't but he should have and I
◼
►
think I think that messages
◼
►
it's threaded through its thread through
◼
►
all cultures right right that it's
◼
►
difficult to not be able to get
◼
►
directions and you should flush I think
◼
►
it's there that's the old man and the
◼
►
sea right so you know it's have sympathy
◼
►
for men because it's sometimes hard to
◼
►
that's right that's that's one of the
◼
►
top ten rules Andy taciturn I mean why
◼
►
do you think I mean they're men get a
◼
►
bad rap but it's hard to be a man from
◼
►
women me well know from men to from you
◼
►
that is again so that's a no on all the
◼
►
thing or fleece thing I think it's an
◼
►
allen all the thing you could be I mean
◼
►
please PLEASE came directly from Alan
◼
►
please there was no fleece before Alan
◼
►
Alda you know I would I captain I don't
◼
►
know I wouldn't want to Calais no don't
◼
►
please don't use that word fallacy
◼
►
it's a it's got a dick right in the
◼
►
middle of it is that one of John were
◼
►
sisters word hates you get introduced me
◼
►
that guy may have met him he won't
◼
►
remember me but you gotta eat sounds
◼
►
like you guys are pals from the tree got
◼
►
any drum loops from that guy was really
◼
►
neat rom lives being pals with jon
◼
►
wurster is it's more difficult than it
◼
►
looks really well jon wurster is a very
◼
►
he's an extremely funny and extremely
◼
►
intelligent person who has carved a life
◼
►
for himself in rock and roll which is a
◼
►
world of morons and so jon wurster has
◼
►
done what a lot of smart people in
◼
►
rock-and-roll has done which is he's
◼
►
he's very careful not to he doesn't like
◼
►
put streamers up and balloons up just
◼
►
because you say something funny to him a
◼
►
couple of times you know he's not like
◼
►
oh my god hi be my friend you know use
◼
►
the heel height what did you do
◼
►
how'd you get in there who me yeah I
◼
►
wouldn't even I wouldn't even say I was
◼
►
in there I mean we we did a tour
◼
►
together and when and we like each other
◼
►
but it's there just announced to know I
◼
►
know he was playing drums in the jay
◼
►
farrar ben gibbard Jack Kerouac based
◼
►
side project band and I did I i did a
◼
►
that's right but I think jon wurster and
◼
►
I even though now we've known each other
◼
►
not you know known each other for a
◼
►
couple years we're still in the the the
◼
►
friendly circling stage where we say oh
◼
►
yes well there you are arched eyebrows
◼
►
yeah like snitches care after yeah
◼
►
there's a little bit of cheer sniffing
◼
►
and it's not i I don't I never I do not
◼
►
approach someone like jon wurster with
◼
►
the expectation that he is going to
◼
►
that i am one of the greatest living men
◼
►
see this is another one that that's the
◼
►
problem the problem again with my better
◼
►
but in his case of with somebody like
◼
►
jon wurster I don't you know I don't I
◼
►
don't consider a problem because jon
◼
►
wurster probably when he's lying in bed
◼
►
at night also suspect that he may be one
◼
►
of the greatest living men and there's
◼
►
not a lot of room in town for too many
◼
►
greatest living men you can't have that
◼
►
many of them in the same small western
◼
►
town or there's gonna be a gunfight
◼
►
absolutely the pity of it is that
◼
►
because of the nature of this challenge
◼
►
is you'll never be able to have a
◼
►
benefit to help these men because first
◼
►
of all you all of you guys hate playing
◼
►
benefits but second of all the people
◼
►
the men who are asking themselves these
◼
►
questions the men to men who are the men
◼
►
who are asking mi of a caliber of
◼
►
somebody who would want to hang out with
◼
►
me i think i think you're not always
◼
►
getting the help you need let alone the
◼
►
audience just don't know how you do that
◼
►
I don't know you hate playing benefits
◼
►
you be very you don't hate plan benefits
◼
►
I think you should be very clear about
◼
►
you hate had a sort of the hypocrisy of
◼
►
not paying the band for benefits and I
◼
►
have to imagine the John washer doesn't
◼
►
yeah i mean i don't hate not being the
◼
►
band for benefits i just hate paying
◼
►
everybody but the band for benefits
◼
►
right i mean that what i wrote that
◼
►
article for the weekly just saying hey
◼
►
if you're if it's a benefit then
◼
►
everybody should work for free if it's a
◼
►
benefit and all the production people
◼
►
and the promoters are getting paid
◼
►
ya know just to clear their money aware
◼
►
this may be the third or fourth time are
◼
►
is heard it but I would see you
◼
►
republished it in the weekly after after
◼
►
having run it several times in my
◼
►
kitchen 5 i've read this particular
◼
►
article on numerous occasions before it
◼
►
was ever in whatever print is now I
◼
►
think the version but that I that I
◼
►
wrote in your kitchen was the was the
◼
►
best version it had a lot more efforts
◼
►
and i had to water it down for a lot of
◼
►
water there's a movie called rules of
◼
►
the game and sports i hope not
◼
►
it's a very old mostly read more but i
◼
►
always get the name wrong that is great
◼
►
the awful thing about life is this
◼
►
everyone has his reasons and I I for
◼
►
some reason I find that quote kind of
◼
►
Intel apply to google to get the exact
◼
►
wording right but the awful thing about
◼
►
life is this everyone has his reasons
◼
►
and I think that's a lot of what you're
◼
►
saying I think everybody has their
◼
►
reasons this is not a value judgment but
◼
►
i think i think the person who's
◼
►
standing in the middle of the fucking
◼
►
aisle while I just want to get some
◼
►
fucking pasta I can see it it's right
◼
►
there I could see it i could see the
◼
►
brand i got the kind i want the thing i
◼
►
don't want the vermicelli and I want the
◼
►
fat one in between I could see it right
◼
►
there but you know what you're standing
◼
►
there you're saying because you're
◼
►
having some kind of little little moment
◼
►
now I've got my reasons which is that
◼
►
i'm correct and i have a child I need to
◼
►
feed ya have limited amount of time that
◼
►
I would rather not spend staring at the
◼
►
back of your fucking head while you
◼
►
smelling room I could die here behind
◼
►
yeah now that person probably has there
◼
►
is no their reasons are probably wrong
◼
►
to testifying a little bit i think but
◼
►
well not nothing I don't think
◼
►
internment away before no no I don't
◼
►
think you're being dramatic of course
◼
►
you couldn't marry again being very
◼
►
even-keeled yeah I and that person wrong
◼
►
as the reasons are probably does have
◼
►
their reasons i doubt they have thought
◼
►
it through as thoroughly as i have and i
◼
►
doubt that they feel the certainty in
◼
►
their black heart yet i have in my very
◼
►
uh kind of off-white one
◼
►
yeah I don't think better off without
◼
►
flat-band get away from her
◼
►
I'm afraid nothing off white is a color
◼
►
you she's not sure that that's a pretty
◼
►
good name for something wrong color for
◼
►
I don't know I don't know I just the
◼
►
thing is I'm here putting that decision
◼
►
I have a version of that same idea and
◼
►
it's a paraphrase I don't remember who
◼
►
said the original thing probably yet or
◼
►
or one of the great men of history one
◼
►
of the one of the men like me right and
◼
►
I don't when I say man I don't mean to
◼
►
exclude women now I just it's pretty
◼
►
I trusting I just like to include women
◼
►
under the overarching category of men
◼
►
right men men kind including women
◼
►
supinator students and that sort of
◼
►
frequently come out in the terms and a
◼
►
dependent clause that probably could
◼
►
have been mostly left out
◼
►
yes well you're gonna bleep all that
◼
►
anyway but uh but but the idea that i
◼
►
carry around is that everybody is have
◼
►
a difficult day like if you are having a
◼
►
difficult day you can pretty much rest
◼
►
assured that everyone else is also
◼
►
struggling to get through today and get
◼
►
home and do whatever they do and it is a
◼
►
it is it's a kind of shorthand that
◼
►
keeps me in an empathetic posture even
◼
►
surrounded as I am by morons and tools
◼
►
to know that they also are struggling
◼
►
and that they're that the fact that they
◼
►
are a moron only makes it harder for
◼
►
them and it increases the this up my
◼
►
sympathetic feeling so that I don't
◼
►
resort to murder also double murder or
◼
►
justifiable homicide or or even just
◼
►
steaming I mean my biggest problem in
◼
►
life it's steaming I spend so much time
◼
►
steaming and and I frankly my broccoli
◼
►
is limp from over steamed king- uh-huh
◼
►
but i but seriously I just can't turn it
◼
►
there's no no the house just like valve
◼
►
right now Merlin I swear to you I am
◼
►
feuding with a half a dozen piece of
◼
►
people and at least four of those six
◼
►
people don't know that we're in a feud
◼
►
I'm sitting here steaming about
◼
►
something steaming and there blindly
◼
►
going about their lives talking about
◼
►
knowing this AR the constant source of
◼
►
yeah yeah I'm pissed at them for
◼
►
something generally it's that I'm pissed
◼
►
at them because they didn't they owe me
◼
►
a phone call made and now it's too late
◼
►
now when they call I won't accept the
◼
►
call because they screwed up somehow and
◼
►
that's steaming is no good you know
◼
►
I should go to an Alcoholics Anonymous
◼
►
meeting and talk about those who don't
◼
►
do that don't do that
◼
►
I I i just want to point out one thing
◼
►
I'm not saying I'm not saying that
◼
►
because we are both right everybody has
◼
►
to be wrong because i'm not going to
◼
►
actually say that that's valid I think
◼
►
that's you can apply that if you have
◼
►
I don't need to say that because that's
◼
►
gonna make us look bad but you should be
◼
►
able to pick that up that's a ok but
◼
►
here's the thing this is B and this is
◼
►
what you and I have in common and most
◼
►
people need to get in common with us is
◼
►
what we're not saying that what you're
◼
►
doing is wrong per se accepted as much
◼
►
as it is wrong it's just more that what
◼
►
we're saying is that our paths that we
◼
►
are introducing to you keep moving and
◼
►
get out of the way it helps everybody
◼
►
there's nothing about I defy you as one
◼
►
of the people who needs our help to say
◼
►
you show me one part of keep moving and
◼
►
get out of the way that harms people
◼
►
nothing well think about it does it's a
◼
►
Hippocratic it doesn't know only of
◼
►
moving and get out of the way is that
◼
►
you can continue to do your stupid
◼
►
thinking within the context of either
◼
►
moving or getting out of way
◼
►
take your time you can you could be full
◼
►
of your own stupid thoughts
◼
►
yep and yet also be either moving or out
◼
►
yep and so that cart turns yeah yeah I
◼
►
what we I think we've reduced it now to
◼
►
yes and I have to say trying to think
◼
►
about the grand unification theory this
◼
►
is the thing about Stephen Hawking boy
◼
►
if if his grand unification theory or
◼
►
whoever comes up with that final grand
◼
►
unification theory that that that unites
◼
►
macro physics with microbiology and it
◼
►
doesn't include keep moving or get out
◼
►
of the way it cannot be exclusive of
◼
►
keep moving or get out of the way right
◼
►
because that is a that is a core truth
◼
►
and so that truth should also be present
◼
►
in the the in in orbiting bodies large
◼
►
it's absolutely true and i can remember
◼
►
it's a theological theological argument
◼
►
design it's one of those arguments it's
◼
►
one of those arguments we're getting you
◼
►
no good god must exist because he not
◼
►
the ontological but like as because
◼
►
God's cool it's one of those it's to
◼
►
Descartes thing I don't make us because
◼
►
God's cool that they can I came from
◼
►
actually from st. Thomas Aquinas region
◼
►
originally but he I think improved on it
◼
►
here's the thing though this is what the
◼
►
Liberals need the liberals don't have
◼
►
this first far they lack are cocksure
◼
►
sense of certainty right they sometimes
◼
►
are sure but they very seldom put the
◼
►
cock in it and that is part of the
◼
►
ok now here's the other thing with the
◼
►
pocket that's another record that's
◼
►
that's true that's well I don't know
◼
►
Hawking talking doesn't work blue very
◼
►
here's here's the problem and this is
◼
►
this go straight to the Hawking I think
◼
►
it's straight to the movies and straight
◼
►
to the Liberals is that is that if
◼
►
you're going to have this supernal
◼
►
approach to things we are basically
◼
►
walking around like open everything
◼
►
turns out okay and don't question
◼
►
anything you could do a lot worse than
◼
►
to make your your your Bureau your kind
◼
►
of BS political belt and Chong you could
◼
►
do a lot worse than making it about keep
◼
►
moving and get out of the way and in
◼
►
fact if I could take it in turn it
◼
►
briefly i think that is the message that
◼
►
most of these people in place need to
◼
►
hear which is you my friend need to
◼
►
either keep moving or you need to get
◼
►
out of the way and possibly both
◼
►
right well the message the problem with
◼
►
the flow with the fleece people is that
◼
►
they they have they taken it as their
◼
►
responsibility to speak on behalf of all
◼
►
the people who they believe cannot
◼
►
either keep moving or get out of the way
◼
►
because of some disadvantage that these
◼
►
other people have or because of the fact
◼
►
that they simply need an advocate and
◼
►
the police people are the self-appointed
◼
►
advocates of all the great many people
◼
►
who either cannot keep moving or get out
◼
►
of the way and the the problem is that
◼
►
there is no one who cannot either keep
◼
►
moving or get out of the way it's not
◼
►
hurting anybody except you keep moving
◼
►
and get out of the way the fleece people
◼
►
as soon as they hear that they think
◼
►
well what about the people who can't
◼
►
right without our people without ever
◼
►
examining the fact that those people
◼
►
that you are supposedly quote-unquote
◼
►
defending could actually benefit to
◼
►
begin with from both keeping moving and
◼
►
getting out of the way but also you know
◼
►
what maybe they don't need somebody who
◼
►
shops at whole foods to help explain
◼
►
their life to other people
◼
►
well that and that's what we that's the
◼
►
problem we get into so now not only
◼
►
there's the original person who needs to
◼
►
lose either keep moving and economically
◼
►
and now there's meeting everyone
◼
►
now there's a person in there now
◼
►
there's a fleecy beardy person and his
◼
►
wife with that with the big hoop
◼
►
earrings and the Guatemalan purse she
◼
►
made the earring she's thinking of doing
◼
►
it as a business and they're standing
◼
►
there now they're standing there with
◼
►
the with the original person who should
◼
►
have kept moving or getting out of the
◼
►
way and they're they're trying to argue
◼
►
with you about how this person you know
◼
►
how they need an extra minute or how
◼
►
this person shouldn't be asked to you
◼
►
know they don't understand what you mean
◼
►
or and this I don't they saw something
◼
►
in the nation and with some statistics
◼
►
about both getting out of the way and
◼
►
yeah there's a whole European influence
◼
►
from back in the you know 1,500 here you
◼
►
got a whole cortez the killer thing
◼
►
well the presumption is that that you're
◼
►
you you're getting out of the way of
◼
►
someone who's superior minutes it
◼
►
instantly becomes a Marxist problem yeah
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there's nothing to overthink your John
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does your dad is nothing to overthink
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this is this is empirical it's a priori
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yeah be safe to say that but you know
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that the police people will other police
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people would overthink