Roderick on the Line

Ep. 06: "String Art Owls, Copper Pipe, and Bono's Boss"


  other commercials now [TS]

  no we mean like email and like like [TS]

  standard like TV commercials or like [TS]

  yeah sometime maybe even fake commercial [TS]

  commercial like me like thank our ok [TS]

  this this episode brought to you by [TS]

  Merlin salve I know I I haven't thought [TS]

  I haven't sought sponsorship it's not [TS]

  that I would you know turn the money [TS]

  away but i will not my impression of how [TS]

  you web people made your money [TS]

  yeah was that you made something and [TS]

  then you sold advertising space all [TS]

  around it [TS]

  yeah until the thing itself was the size [TS]

  of a can of tuna virtually obscured and [TS]

  then there was advertising you know [TS]

  flashing at you and offer you click here [TS]

  and you get a million dollars yet here [TS]

  and your dick will be twice as big [TS]

  yes isn't that what so how why should [TS]

  the show be any different [TS]

  that first of all the answer question [TS]

  that is a that is a very popular model [TS]

  for making money on the web and it's one [TS]

  that was one that I've employed some [TS]

  people go with subscription models [TS]

  that's where you know you a certain [TS]

  amount of money and you get a certain [TS]

  amount of stuff but that doesn't really [TS]

  work nobody subscribe to my loving the [TS]

  web do that [TS]

  yes some people do i think one problem [TS]

  is that people get you know there's a [TS]

  phenomenon that happens on the web that [TS]

  you can see sometimes in things like [TS]

  reviews for software where if people try [TS]

  to if you read reviews of software [TS]

  alright alright already been around much [TS]

  smaller now we're talking [TS]

  and the thing is if you charge for [TS]

  anything you know [TS]

  so a you know like if somebody was dead [TS]

  take out can we get some quiet on the [TS]

  set here you guys if you want to talk to [TS]

  you [TS]

  fuck off somewhere thanks appreciate it [TS]

  wow you're not going to take charge of [TS]

  this [TS]

  yeah filmmaker I'm gonna have to do [TS]

  something the thing is I what I all [TS]

  these hippies doing in the yard anyway [TS]

  I've got out you have some pot to smoke [TS]

  I've got you should load up a hacky sack [TS]

  I've got that what they call I the tiger [TS]

  in the business [TS]

  yeah so i can zoom right in and the [TS]

  distractions from me or just oh I see [TS]

  what you're saying yeah you know I don't [TS]

  I because i'm a rock musician of course [TS]

  the drugs have given me a really short [TS]

  attention span and I hear hear [TS]

  not just voices [TS]

  in the yard but voices all around really [TS]

  accidentally it's hard for me to [TS]

  concentrate [TS]

  mhm but anyway you were saying about how [TS]

  you make money [TS]

  yeah i'm curious about this oh no way we [TS]

  were talking about advertising on your [TS]

  show [TS]

  yeah there's no advertising but you're [TS]

  right people of be buying buying ads [TS]

  they also will do I think of more [TS]

  conventional less idiotic way to do it [TS]

  is with which we call sponsorship so I'm [TS]

  i turned the camera and say I'm I'm you [TS]

  know sponsored by Roderick south for all [TS]

  of your of burning needs and then they [TS]

  call that a DJ it's not film me a call [TS]

  that a DJ read okay it goes back to the [TS]

  days of radio it's Bobby I like maalox [TS]

  right or what has brought to you by [TS]

  Carl's jr. that's my girls doing very [TS]

  precisely and i think that's that's the [TS]

  way that some people are doing it you [TS]

  know it's a that that's that's the [TS]

  internet and how people are but you're [TS]

  not doing that either no not so right [TS]

  now this is just literally losing money [TS]

  while i'm talking this is just like [TS]

  downloading somebody's music for free [TS]

  you're offering you're putting your [TS]

  record on the internet for free [TS]

  yeah hoping that it generates traffic to [TS]

  some place that makes you money [TS]

  I just want people to like me and have [TS]

  affection for me and I'm willing to [TS]

  subsidize whatever it takes right well [TS]

  we're in the same business really you [TS]

  feel like you put it out there and and [TS]

  you you have a big developer affection [TS]

  for you huh yeah and that that affection [TS]

  will one day translate into money [TS]

  yeah is that am i right but to possibly [TS]

  see what you do this you do this I guess [TS]

  we both do something like this for a [TS]

  living I guess he is kind of my living [TS]

  you know your urine and different boat [TS]

  than you were a few years ago but the [TS]

  thing is when you're a musician a lot of [TS]

  people who work jobs in the straight [TS]

  world actually people of all stripes are [TS]

  constantly trying to tell you how much [TS]

  your job itself is its own reward [TS]

  like oh wow you know touring is so great [TS]

  you're so lucky and money has to just be [TS]

  like so far down the list of of your [TS]

  motivations because you get to travel [TS]

  you get to you know play your music for [TS]

  people and and it's it's I'm super [TS]

  grateful that people spend so much time [TS]

  telling me all the reasons why i should [TS]

  be glad that I'm not getting paid for [TS]

  the various things in the best people [TS]

  that are of course the promoters for the [TS]

  show or you know the people that run [TS]

  your understand how how valuable the [TS]

  publicity is yeah they understand how [TS]

  valuable it is that you be convinced [TS]

  that the three free beers they put in [TS]

  your dressing room are adequate [TS]

  compensation there you having driven [TS]

  eight hours to play their logic their [TS]

  logic is often fractal though right [TS]

  because their logic their logic is it or [TS]

  at least recursive it so it's really you [TS]

  know you're using a lot of words I don't [TS]

  worry for you to be able to come out [TS]

  here and play the the fallen oak [TS]

  festival this year I can't even tell you [TS]

  how many people we couldn't get on the [TS]

  building's you do you understand how [TS]

  much press is gonna be here for the [TS]

  fallen oak festival that's right you go [TS]

  well you know I had a fucking pack of [TS]

  van and drive here and pay my band and [TS]

  they go but you know this is this a [TS]

  publicity alone this is a huge [TS]

  opportunity and you but to play the ass [TS]

  polyp of benefit yeah because it's good [TS]

  because I a lot of going to be a lot of [TS]

  exposure and to a demographic that a lot [TS]

  of people don't get their music exposed [TS]

  to set your table with a spot for people [TS]

  to love them so you've got really that [TS]

  the beauty then is it's a very very [TS]

  rarefied vertical market you're moving [TS]

  into with the polyp crowd [TS]

  yeah yeah but see but didn't know that's [TS]

  that's what's funny though is that it's [TS]

  very seldom you think what this is one [TS]

  thing you encounter on the web and in [TS]

  the in the music business and is by the [TS]

  way it is music business that's not show [TS]

  friends let's show pretty special about [TS]

  the business is that about credit [TS]

  Johnson now because whenever i quote him [TS]

  without crediting him yeah he creates a [TS]

  letter he regularly because he doesn't [TS]

  send it he writes to the to the tune of [TS]

  heaven knows i'm miserable now this [TS]

  Smith I just like to point out that my [TS]

  chair is fully six inches lower than [TS]

  Merlin so if it seems like with the [TS]

  stand I don't play stupid John I don't [TS]

  want [TS]

  make sure the audio but you know you [TS]

  know you know how this works [TS]

  yeah I know I know yeah this is my house [TS]

  word let's switch for a minute just know [TS]

  i like to see no you want so the kids [TS]

  can see the difference in hell if we see [TS]

  it you'll have to zoom out [TS]

  yeah to he's probably having trouble [TS]

  keeping our heads and frame as it is [TS]

  headspace it's had a lot of cough [TS]

  medicine earlier today but it but this [TS]

  this happens on with web stuff that [TS]

  happens with music stuff and God knows [TS]

  what happens with film stuff because we [TS]

  have some friends who do film stuff and [TS]

  I it's there are so many people who work [TS]

  lying she even be just vaguely [TS]

  associated with certain industries that [TS]

  they'll give up a lot a lot of times you [TS]

  called an internship or what happened [TS]

  and people higher up the food chain [TS]

  really exploit that in every one of the [TS]

  entertainment businesses like the [TS]

  perceived glamour is a is a major form [TS]

  of pay for people who are breaking into [TS]

  any industry like oh man you know you're [TS]

  going to meet Bono's personal assistants [TS]

  sister tonight maybe she's on the list [TS]

  yeah she might not come but you may get [TS]

  the driver to the US here is a shame [TS]

  nothing wrong with that and and and and [TS]

  and it's great because a whole I mean [TS]

  that is how people get into the business [TS]

  initially but after you've been doing [TS]

  anything for a while you're like yeah [TS]

  yeah great Bono's personal assistants [TS]

  what I don't you know like I've got not [TS]

  not just bills to pay but i have like a [TS]

  certain amount of mean you know me I [TS]

  have it I have a little bit of a dignity [TS]

  problem in that I might have a little [TS]

  too much dignity or i might perceive [TS]

  that boil it down to a single dignity [TS]

  problem is when a constellation of [TS]

  dignity issues i have dignity issues a [TS]

  compilation of them but one of them is [TS]

  one of one of the things that I get my [TS]

  backup about is when you know when [TS]

  people are telling me why I should be [TS]

  satisfied with less than they would give [TS]

  someone else because of the because of [TS]

  the perceived intangible benefits of my [TS]

  job which is yeah screwing teenagers [TS]

  blow not having to work sleeping all day [TS]

  right i mean these are real benefits [TS]

  yeah i was very wrong their purpose its [TS]

  of the of your vertical mark [TS]

  right but when somebody said wanted [TS]

  someone somebody sitting in a back room [TS]

  of a club with a cigar in their mouth [TS]

  and accounting hundred-dollar bills and [TS]

  telling me that that that the the [TS]

  teenage girl that I'm about to go shag [TS]

  in the van is part of my pay for the [TS]

  night [TS]

  i jacked yeah we want the Nash talk but [TS]

  here's here's the thing is their days [TS]

  off [TS]

  yeah I'm sorry I didn't you know you [TS]

  can't be careful if you get to go back [TS]

  i'm talking right into the camera [TS]

  yeah that's as good generally threaten [TS]

  people because I want people to like me [TS]

  the the one part of that but i think is [TS]

  always so interesting is the the [TS]

  unstated and Status exchanges that go on [TS]

  and the power exchange stuff that goes [TS]

  on where for a lot of those interests or [TS]

  for that let's say bottom of the bill [TS]

  band was watching the guy peel off the [TS]

  hundreds they understand that they're [TS]

  not in a position to say hey wait a [TS]

  minute i need to escalate this and we [TS]

  need to talk a little bit about like [TS]

  what's actually going on here no you [TS]

  know what you're right and one thing I [TS]

  think is a probably your credit is is [TS]

  your i have I can't even tell you how [TS]

  many times you seem to really seemed to [TS]

  really relish the opportunity to go talk [TS]

  to the guy with the hundred-dollar bills [TS]

  and fucking set him straight about [TS]

  exactly how it's going to work and it's [TS]

  fun to watch but i think a lot of people [TS]

  are happy to just infer that the part of [TS]

  the manager but they're part of this [TS]

  glamour industry and happy that you know [TS]

  what I'm just glad to be playing at at [TS]

  the doo-dah bar tonight it's just on a [TS]

  friday instead of a tuesday at least [TS]

  it's not like LA where we just have to [TS]

  pay you know it's right in seattle jim [TS]

  has a pay-to-play in saddle you know but [TS]

  the I mean there are there are places [TS]

  you can pay to play [TS]

  ok but the version of pay-to-play is [TS]

  just that you pay for you play for free [TS]

  and you watch the bar you know sell five [TS]

  thousand dollars worth of of [TS]

  jagermeister shots and you're like so [TS]

  that money's going somewhere [TS]

  yeah but i think it in computers and [TS]

  also in in rock I don't know whether [TS]

  it's that it attracts uh [TS]

  not meet people but people who are [TS]

  afraid of appearing aggressive afraid of [TS]

  afraid of offending people and so good [TS]

  so you get people who who will who are [TS]

  waiting for somebody to hand them the [TS]

  authority there waiting for somebody to [TS]

  to to say now you have the authority to [TS]

  stand up for yourself and until that [TS]

  point you just have to behave yourself [TS]

  but that will come externally it's not [TS]

  something that they're gonna bring to [TS]

  the situation they're never going to [TS]

  coronation that they're waiting for I [TS]

  think right there waiting to be there [TS]

  waiting to for there for there were blog [TS]

  or their their site or their band to be [TS]

  unquestionably big enough that people [TS]

  just genuflected them and give them that [TS]

  that that they earn respect by virtue of [TS]

  the of the the thing they produce rather [TS]

  than commanding respect by some by some [TS]

  other method by some by just by just [TS]

  embodying somebody who who is who isn't [TS]

  going to take it in the shorts and the [TS]

  the challenges I mean obviously I like I [TS]

  in some in some circles I have a [TS]

  reputation of being I don't know how you [TS]

  would say an abrasive for you [TS]

  yeah arrogant maybe mm whoo [TS]

  and I think that's a miss [TS]

  miss missed opportunity for people to to [TS]

  learn from you to learn what all all [TS]

  that i have the TV you know I I feel I [TS]

  feel like what what what often gets [TS]

  called arrogance or abrasiveness on my [TS]

  part [TS]

  yeah is really like in any other [TS]

  business when a man does its assertive [TS]

  right if I if I was a contractor like [TS]

  that behavior would be necessary to get [TS]

  the job done right you've got guys [TS]

  coming in late you've got guys coming in [TS]

  hungover you gotta get the frame-up you [TS]

  gotta get the concrete board and you [TS]

  have to you know you have to bust some [TS]

  heads and you also have to say hey [TS]

  you're shortchanging me on copper pipe [TS]

  yeah and because everybody's trying to [TS]

  shortchange everybody on copper pipe [TS]

  it's the it's the way of the world but [TS]

  in the music business if you call [TS]

  somebody out for shortchanging you on [TS]

  the unload the load of lumber whatever [TS]

  that load of lumber is there's this uh [TS]

  the the typical reaction is like oh man [TS]

  that's so uncool hard to work with [TS]

  oh yeah John Roderick man is really like [TS]

  such she such dick because that because [TS]

  the the currency the lingua franca of [TS]

  these creative businesses is this [TS]

  incredibly passive kind of like it's [TS]

  cool man you know I know you said that [TS]

  we were going to get $1,500 and you're [TS]

  only giving us like eleven dollars but [TS]

  that's cool you know it's your clubs [TS]

  righteous and you're cool dude and we'll [TS]

  get you next time you know and I just [TS]

  think it's horseshit [TS]

  yeah and I'm sure I'm sure it happens in [TS]

  the in the web business too although i [TS]

  can't i can't picture away in which you [TS]

  guys would ever actually speak to each [TS]

  other face-to-face so now like your [TS]

  emails like hi emoticon [TS]

  no Robin LOL that's what we do we will [TS]

  speak we speak to each other mostly in [TS]

  this kind of this kind of yeah this [TS]

  fatwa punctuation a little round around [TS]

  smiley face and whose eyelashes going [TS]

  like that's that's I've used that set [TS]

  yeah there's there's on the web a lot of [TS]

  a lot of the [TS]

  there's a cat here a lot of the power if [TS]

  you will comes from quantifiable things [TS]

  like traffic or how high up on google [TS]

  you appear for certain returns and so it [TS]

  is kind of weird that whether you want [TS]

  to participate in this or not there are [TS]

  ways in which you're not only being [TS]

  evaluated but in some ways people are [TS]

  very obsessively following the stuff in [TS]

  the way we're adding ranking ranking [TS]

  that's right at anyway is in the way [TS]

  that you might for example not you but [TS]

  somebody who's who's putting out records [TS]

  might sit much soundscan and go okay [TS]

  well I really need to see what happens [TS]

  on week two of this release except on [TS]

  the webz if you have a website that's [TS]

  your franchise whatever it's an ongoing [TS]

  thing and then to reach the certain kind [TS]

  of perceived level of highness [TS]

  you know it brings with it you know lots [TS]

  of weirdness [TS]

  let's just say it's it's it's it's funny [TS]

  though but the word from personal [TS]

  experience now but yeah yeah absolutely [TS]

  cross a certain threshold your life [TS]

  change but don't know it's a first-world [TS]

  problem bi be a dick to complain about [TS]

  it but that it definitely is like like [TS]

  it's so for example let's say you won [TS]

  the lottery tomorrow all the sudden [TS]

  you're going to hear from a lot of [TS]

  relatives and and people with cancer and [TS]

  whatnot right and and it's it's just [TS]

  interesting because what it comes down [TS]

  to the always some share DNA with the [TS]

  music industry which is you want to in [TS]

  some way as much as possible ingratiate [TS]

  yourself in acceptable ways to people [TS]

  who can stand to give you more of the [TS]

  stuff whether that's an inbound link or [TS]

  a mention or something like that in the [TS]

  same way the people in your industry are [TS]

  constantly sucking up to magazines and [TS]

  trying to get on TV shows or whatever [TS]

  the interesting thing about it is that [TS]

  from every from every evil from every [TS]

  level of it looking upward [TS]

  you always imagine that the next the [TS]

  next level will be the level at which [TS]

  you'll have to start you'll be able to [TS]

  stop sucking up to the level above you [TS]

  right and in my experience there is that [TS]

  never arrives [TS]

  like I don't know who borrow sucks up to [TS]

  you learn this from the Robert Evans [TS]

  biography right you know you always [TS]

  there's always somebody at charlie [TS]

  bluhdorn you've always got somebody [TS]

  above you that you've got to be pleasing [TS]

  every level got somebody about mirror [TS]

  auditioning again [TS]

  and yeah for the next level and I think [TS]

  with Bono it's I I don't think he has to [TS]

  maybe suck up to anybody but there are [TS]

  people there are those invisible people [TS]

  whose names maybe aren't in the press [TS]

  who are controlling access to places [TS]

  that bono wants access to right he has [TS]

  to he can't come in and piss on the [TS]

  carpet in the entryway just because he's [TS]

  bono because these guys aren't aren't [TS]

  impressed [TS]

  here's the thing and this is this is [TS]

  this is the great myth that it would [TS]

  really have been swell if I had learned [TS]

  when I was 14 which is i really be [TS]

  coming from like you know they make a [TS]

  master at the same way too many times [TS]

  you lose figure boring right here this [TS]

  meet the stranger you know I don't know [TS]

  that 14 you got good at that [TS]

  yeah the the thing of it is that you [TS]

  always eat n plus i tended to think that [TS]

  such a thing is like whatever arriving [TS]

  and you get this one place right now [TS]

  here's the here's here's the tricky part [TS]

  about this and again i want to credit [TS]

  mr. robert evans two great the great [TS]

  producer for this is that you realize [TS]

  that in some ways [TS]

  okay first of all the older you get the [TS]

  more you realize you have to lose at any [TS]

  given time so so something like Bono and [TS]

  you're in your example from earlier you [TS]

  know Bono may not have anybody who he [TS]

  looks at his boss photos but it's got a [TS]

  lot of skin in the game in a lot of [TS]

  different ways and it is curiously I [TS]

  suspected it's a curiously American 20th [TS]

  century plus conceit to think that there [TS]

  are people in the world who don't worry [TS]

  about things like where they are and [TS]

  status and improving and keeping it all [TS]

  together just because they got more [TS]

  money than me or because I got more [TS]

  whatever than me right [TS]

  and I guess the only thing i want to say [TS]

  is that no matter who you are no matter [TS]

  where you are there's always there's [TS]

  always that sense of I don't know I just [TS]

  suspect there's always there's always [TS]

  something that you want to retain if not [TS]

  game there's always something that you [TS]

  want to keep together and having that [TS]

  skin in the game is what keeps you [TS]

  that's what keeps us all from becoming [TS]

  you know Spartan warriors or whatever [TS]

  you know i think that i think the Bush [TS]

  presidency has has Illustrated that [TS]

  better than almost anything in the sense [TS]

  that they were that we always felt like [TS]

  all the president is beholding to this [TS]

  back room [TS]

  group of of faceless man who are you [TS]

  know the puppet masters but with George [TS]

  W [TS]

  it's never been more apparent that he is [TS]

  ostensibly the most powerful man in the [TS]

  United States and he actually turns to [TS]

  the guy sitting next to him to see if [TS]

  the answer he's giving the camera is [TS]

  correct [TS]

  you know he's he's visibly up he's [TS]

  visibly beholding to something larger [TS]

  than he is he's he still ain't even as [TS]

  president the united states is not able [TS]

  to sit back and say I've arrived and now [TS]

  I'm the decider as he's as he says you [TS]

  know they're he's he's being stage [TS]

  managed by powers beyond our [TS]

  comprehension and I don't or not even [TS]

  not not that's the best part about it's [TS]

  not beyond our comprehension they're [TS]

  sitting right exactly what you up and [TS]

  you know who it is it's like it's like [TS]

  Dick Cheney and about seven other guys [TS]

  who are like ahead George George yeah [TS]

  you're doing real good you doing real [TS]

  good and and the and understanding that [TS]

  that's true in every business that even [TS]

  bono and i dunno if you're watching [TS]

  I don't want to i'm not i'm not slagging [TS]

  you off I haven't ya mad respect for you [TS]

  yeah but I'm even bono there's somebody [TS]

  out there and I don't know whether it's [TS]

  the chairman of seagrams or whether it's [TS]

  nelson mandela or I don't know who it is [TS]

  a person that has pictures that the [TS]

  compromising pictures of him [TS]

  there's there no one is completely free [TS]

  mhm i think that should be the the model [TS]

  of your show [TS]

  no what no one is completely free yeah [TS]

  yeah but you are and now but there's a [TS]

  softer side of this to that I think it's [TS]

  worth mentioning which is that they're [TS]

  actually if this is not all the farias [TS]

  inside baseball industry backroom [TS]

  cigar-smoking stuff a lot of this like [TS]

  you know i'm happy to say that I really [TS]

  really like a lot of the people that [TS]

  I've met through doing stuff with the [TS]

  web [TS]

  just as I know you've made great friends [TS]

  by touring the world with your band and [TS]

  meeting people along the way so I mean [TS]

  it's not all it's not all there's [TS]

  something to be said though like you [TS]

  know like easy I've seen you happier on [TS]

  some I've seen you a lot happier on some [TS]

  viewers than others just by virtue of [TS]

  the fact that [TS]

  you got along really well and felt [TS]

  mutual respect with the people that you [TS]

  are touring yeah that there are I mean [TS]

  intangible benefits are the reason that [TS]

  you do something like this they are the [TS]

  main benefits yeah I didn't know never [TS]

  meant to suggest that that they weren't [TS]

  but my objection is when other people [TS]

  trying trying to tell you that the [TS]

  intangible benefits are worth the thirty [TS]

  percent of the money that they're not i [TS]

  gotta tell you i think it's a deeper [TS]

  thing for you I think you are uncannily [TS]

  incapable of handling anything that you [TS]

  perceive this bullshit i think i think [TS]

  you are almost sociopathic in the way [TS]

  that you cannot let bullshit stand and [TS]

  yet I'm often accused of being a [TS]

  bullshit ru ru ru huge bullshit artist [TS]

  but that doesn't make you somebody who [TS]

  is a guy I've just seen this I can't [TS]

  tell you how many dozen times I've seen [TS]

  something happens and it catches the [TS]

  corner of your eye and it's big claws [TS]

  come out and you've got to go in and [TS]

  you're not gonna be happy and so you've [TS]

  put your front paws on the shoulders and [TS]

  your back claws into the gut and kind of [TS]

  run in place for a while in order to [TS]

  order to exercise every last bit of [TS]

  bullshit there's you know there's [TS]

  bullshit and there's bullshit and i [TS]

  think that the the kind of bullshit for [TS]

  instance that that you got the guy [TS]

  peeling off hundred-dollar bills would [TS]

  you not call that a piece of bullshit [TS]

  that you've got a call-out not just for [TS]

  financial reasons absolute almost for [TS]

  moral reasons absolutely there's the [TS]

  there's the bullshit that you've turned [TS]

  into a career [TS]

  yeah which is harmless bullshit caught [TS]

  the good does it doesn't affect anyone [TS]

  except in a sort of like you know what's [TS]

  that [TS]

  that sound it's comforting at all right [TS]

  Merlin Mann uh-huh [TS]

  and then there's bullshit please you [TS]

  find comforting bullshit that has that [TS]

  where there's real skin like songs about [TS]

  spies like that that would be like what [TS]

  kind of bullshit songs about spies yeah [TS]

  i was about spies are there helping [TS]

  America they are there helping people [TS]

  understand their feelings about spies [TS]

  yeah comas and that's what I'm that's [TS]

  that's what I'm trying to show you about [TS]

  huh [TS]

  so is my kind of bullshit know there's [TS]

  our kind of bullshit yeah there's [TS]

  bullshit which is a form of [TS]

  entertainment and there's bullshit which [TS]

  is a form of obfuscation yes where you [TS]

  are bullshitting in order to distract [TS]

  the person so that you can make off with [TS]

  this is actually covered in that book on [TS]

  bullshit which very short book that I [TS]

  have on board yeah do you agree that [TS]

  this is along those lines it is you have [TS]

  a certain kind you have a certain kind [TS]

  of i'm empress paraphrasing what you [TS]

  just said was a certain kind of very [TS]

  inert just kind of bullshit bullshit as [TS]

  a form of passing the day I mean if you [TS]

  walk down the street in athens again [TS]

  there r45 old man sitting on every [TS]

  stupid yes bullshitting that's 10 [TS]

  minutes [TS]

  it's the it's the lubricant social [TS]

  lubricant that makes the world a [TS]

  pleasant is so-so a toupee that [TS]

  somebody's wearing as they walk around [TS]

  is a kind of benign bullshit but a kind [TS]

  of a kind of like putting a gun to [TS]

  somebody's had to make them trying [TS]

  believe that that's a real to pay is a [TS]

  kind of intolerable bullshit [TS]

  yeah where I mean a toupee toupee on the [TS]

  head of a guy who's walking down the [TS]

  street and he's just you can see in his [TS]

  eyes that he believes that he has a full [TS]

  head of hair and he believes everyone [TS]

  else believes that he has a full head of [TS]

  hair is long as it's harmless but [TS]

  otherwise we can live with but I but a [TS]

  toupee like the one on Ben Affleck which [TS]

  is a whole career [TS]

  mm I mean his career is founded on the [TS]

  fact that he's a young and virile full [TS]

  you have that you have a flat problems i [TS]

  have a certain I i think it it crosses [TS]

  the line into a different kind of [TS]

  bullshit yeah when you are when you are [TS]

  presenting I mean like Sean Connery for [TS]

  instance when he when he exposed himself [TS]

  as a as a to paid man he he empowered [TS]

  himself that by saying like the this is [TS]

  a costume [TS]

  I'm wearing this as a costume yeah and [TS]

  so I can appear in a film with with a [TS]

  full head of hair and we know i'm [TS]

  playing a role [TS]

  yeah whereas somebody like Ben Affleck [TS]

  who is who is never appears without his [TS]

  fake hair and he's a movie star this [TS]

  metaphorical hair it's metaphorical hair [TS]

  okay yeah it's it's the equivalent of [TS]

  talent to pay of of a breast implant [TS]

  which is not which is not advertise [TS]

  itself from friends Pamela Anderson's [TS]

  breasts employee yes the advertise [TS]

  themselves as implants [TS]

  yes I have no objection to them because [TS]

  she is she's a car to them so been out [TS]

  of analytes career is like a nigga what [TS]

  like a 32b implant [TS]

  oh no I supplying android i have no way [TS]

  of knowing whether Ben Affleck has male [TS]

  pattern baldness like say yours [TS]

  for male pattern baldness likes a fully [TS]

  ball person like your friend here [TS]

  yeah but but his career is founded on [TS]

  his hair kind of it to a certain extent [TS]

  Ben Affleck was if he appeared bald on [TS]

  camera [TS]

  yes I don't know whether I mean he has [TS]

  the option i think of appearing in a [TS]

  film without his hair [TS]

  yeah and being perceived as like you're [TS]

  not talking about metaphorical hair [TS]

  you're saying Ben Affleck wears a piece [TS]

  oh yeah really oh you be sure about that [TS]

  absolutely [TS]

  huh you can tell no I can't [TS]

  yeah it's made out of its like woven out [TS]

  of the pubic hair of Vietnamese mother's [TS]

  hey huh currently in Vietnam it seems [TS]

  very lush that's what I'm saying [TS]

  huh what is that won't need a lot of [TS]

  rice now they do [TS]

  yeah yeah and it's salty fish but you [TS]

  find that intolerable [TS]

  no I'm saying across across a wine I [TS]

  don't know Ben Affleck's hair is a crime [TS]

  against humanity right but i think [TS]

  there's a difference between his hair [TS]

  and sean connery's here [TS]

  yeah I agree well you know what kind of [TS]

  pioneered all that was the with the [TS]

  weather guy on the today show what's his [TS]

  name the guy used to be the big guy [TS]

  wilford brimley Wilford Brimley's at his [TS]

  name anybody i know will for now Roker [TS]

  the other guy [TS]

  oh the the big guy have a big loud guy [TS]

  what was his name [TS]

  thank you well as scholars scholars [TS]

  Scott which it would charge would charge [TS]

  you differently depending on whether he [TS]

  wore his little hair hat he charged you [TS]

  more [TS]

  it was part of his deal is deal was I'm [TS]

  with Scott I'm going to show up and it's [TS]

  going to be Willard Scott but if you [TS]

  were a little hair hat my charge a [TS]

  little more [TS]

  really yeah which I think see I think [TS]

  that's that that's got it takes a huge [TS]

  amount of self conscience consciousness [TS]

  that I that I i find almost intoxicating [TS]

  yeah I should come up with a version of [TS]

  that after yourself [TS]

  yeah like different glasses frames or [TS]

  maybe whether i have the comedy biker [TS]

  mustache or not you want me there [TS]

  i'm there a lot of anybody a mustache [TS]

  little more work which version of [TS]

  colorful John will you bring to the [TS]

  shell like the idea right [TS]

  yeah and all right that's a nice John [TS]

  bullshit and [TS]

  scene and seen I'm saying that I'm [TS]

  saying that crossword puzzles and Sudoku [TS]

  yeah and and solitaire [TS]

  uh-huh rr4 retirement people you don't [TS]

  see any analogy with making things like [TS]

  bottle cap like making a pop-top art or [TS]

  decoupage or string our towels [TS]

  it's awful retarded people but I know [TS]

  the joy of making the string our owl i [TS]

  think i think that that people to make [TS]

  string art owls are not just making them [TS]

  out of a motivated purely by the joy of [TS]

  negative status mean I think they're [TS]

  making it in order to have to have it [TS]

  made and then they have the string or [TS]

  towel and they intend to do something [TS]

  either give it as a gift [TS]

  yeah the wall or you've never made a [TS]

  string are now on your entire life i [TS]

  have made a lot of string art owl have [TS]

  you made a ship i have made a ship made [TS]

  a straight i made a guy made a ship on a [TS]

  string art yeah we're hammer the nails [TS]

  into a piece of absolutely when you [TS]

  string the string the ship is the [TS]

  classic but I wasn't making it out of [TS]

  the joy of making it and we were [TS]

  conniving well you made it official [TS]

  conniving about it yeah you couldn't [TS]

  just make a ship because he wanted to [TS]

  make a ship if you if you are not gonna [TS]

  get you later if you're motivated to [TS]

  make something i don't think that I [TS]

  don't and I think joy is a lot of joy is [TS]

  a lot easier to come by then then [TS]

  getting some tax and some felt in making [TS]

  a ship not for some people i think it is [TS]

  I think every I mean joy is pretty [TS]

  simple like paint-by-number people just [TS]

  like the mechanics of doing this is why [TS]

  sudoku or crossword people like the [TS]

  simple like this is something that I can [TS]

  do i'm going to just move my hands and [TS]

  think a little bit and watch my watch my [TS]

  stories false people paint by numbers [TS]

  and then they put it on the wall and if [TS]

  you put it on now that's retarded if you [TS]

  put it on the wall if you put a frame [TS]

  around it and put it on the wall yeah [TS]

  you weren't you you don't think of it as [TS]

  just an exercise of the hand like people [TS]

  okay if there are people out there [TS]

  particularly anyone who's watching who [TS]

  paint by numbers and then immediately [TS]

  throws the thing away [TS]

  yeah and it's just an exercise like this [TS]

  is something i do to keep my hands [TS]

  occupied lobby waiting for the clothes [TS]

  to dry your almost French these kinds of [TS]

  things that you come up we'll wait [TS]

  different you're very you're very close [TS]

  to French [TS]

  in fact you are friends i am so not for [TS]

  any way you look I don't look fresh and [TS]

  all you look totally friends last time [TS]

  you're in France like never I was in [TS]

  France of two weeks ago all over [TS]

  everywhere I like your sis you're ready [TS]

  just like you know you they look like me [TS]

  yeah they look like you you know I think [TS]

  that's because of your stupid fat eyes [TS]

  and the way the he see people because [TS]

  I'm you're like the Jerry Lewis of [TS]

  France in my dreams in my dreams I don't [TS]

  know you know what's funny i'll tell you [TS]

  this this is the classic this is the [TS]

  classic argument what that people have [TS]

  about art but if it's classic it's [TS]

  definitely stupid people people people [TS]

  want art to be pure yeah and so they [TS]

  believe that people make art out of a [TS]

  out of a directly from their heart to [TS]

  the brush unmotivated by is like saying [TS]

  like strippers like to dance because [TS]

  they like wearing high heels [TS]

  you know it's just that that's so far [TS]

  off like like how stuff gets gets made [TS]

  I'm but my mind is still trying to groc [TS]

  the stripper high heel and groc why did [TS]

  you read that and wired few years back [TS]

  arthur c clarke is that right yeah [TS]

  that's my mom really plan to your shirt [TS]

  for the little lady Clarke yeah you can [TS]

  literally throwing a couple things like [TS]

  what likelike uhf an eight-track oh wow [TS]

  I had no idea you were so up-to-date i [TS]

  know i got credible well I I was [TS]

  actually having an RSS feed the other [TS]

  day and I have that down to an RSS feed [TS]

  whatever it was it was beta [TS]

  uh-huh yeah I right but you were able to [TS]

  grow kit for the most attractive yeah [TS]

  you know groc is a lot older than you [TS]

  web people when people are always [TS]

  looking for words because you don't use [TS]

  worries we only web Peter you don't look [TS]

  you don't mean me and my army of web [TS]

  page so you repurpose word right because [TS]

  you don't make words yourselves and [TS]

  that's I mean I I into hiding after [TS]

  working out what called butthole the [TS]

  webwork we've been working on butthole [TS]

  yeah well you know because they do [TS]

  differently like yeah if you got [TS]

  10 in it but yeah exactly [TS]

  I the whole colon hear anything here's [TS]

  and i'm curious like I don't think I've [TS]

  ever ask you this in the seemingly [TS]

  endless conversations I've had with you [TS]

  so I had always heard mostly because the [TS]

  jar should know you don't talk to me [TS]

  like that I don't know who shared our [TS]

  1,900 1,900 and 82 I was there I got it [TS]

  I got it I got a twenty-dollar not even [TS]

  a no-name it's a sub no-name guitar and [TS]

  I was running on no that's not accurate [TS]

  was in tenth grade and I i learn to play [TS]

  guitar and I cannot tell you that [TS]

  there's so many mythologies of high [TS]

  school that I just find unacceptable [TS]

  including those are the best years of [TS]

  your life but that if you learn to play [TS]

  guitar [TS]

  you'll get girls right right which I [TS]

  found to be completely untrue [TS]

  in my experience is the bass players [TS]

  you're still upset that you didn't lose [TS]

  your virginity to your 22 well well ask [TS]

  me again when I'm but I'm I so so i [TS]

  think it's interesting that you take [TS]

  something like guitar which is basically [TS]

  it's a musical instrument for retarded [TS]

  people very easy to learn you know you [TS]

  you probably got good at it in and what [TS]

  34 weeks probably [TS]

  oh no I i labored over the guitar for [TS]

  years I was I didn't become good at the [TS]

  guitar [TS]

  ask me again yeah until I was in my late [TS]

  twenties I think and even then not [TS]

  really good yeah i would argue i'm not [TS]

  i'm still not good people pick up the [TS]

  stuff like that though the thread here [TS]

  though is that people pick up stuff like [TS]

  that because because why I mean I for me [TS]

  i really liked being able to play along [TS]

  with Black Sabbath record right like and [TS]

  so I can when I learned pinball wizard [TS]

  and play along with tommy that was like [TS]

  what I imagine sex was like I think I [TS]

  think that the guys who actually pick up [TS]

  the guitar motivated by a desire to get [TS]

  girls you can see them a mile away and [TS]

  they are there fuck stains every one of [TS]

  them [TS]

  yeah most people who pick up the guitar [TS]

  do not do it because they imagine it's [TS]

  going to get him girls they do it for a [TS]

  pure adolescent boy your courier yeah [TS]

  which is just like yeah yeah like [TS]

  I'm you know like the the girl was not [TS]

  even in it you want to be Pete Townsend [TS]

  yes and being Pete Townsend seems like [TS]

  the end at of itself understand heating [TS]

  get girls with it either i don't know [TS]

  that i've never seen a picture of p-town [TS]

  with a girl [TS]

  yeah have you ever seen a picture of him [TS]

  with a girl he's in that we're looking [TS]

  at Turner i challenge you people [TS]

  watching this on the web to immediately [TS]

  click on to google and search for Pete [TS]

  and untroubled um address my viewers I'm [TS]

  it sickens me somebody playing the [TS]

  basketball when I when I first started [TS]

  playing the guitar it was not a guitar [TS]

  first of all it was a tennis racket and [TS]

  it was it was actually fairly for the [TS]

  joy of it and i was learning nothing by [TS]

  playing the tennis racket to to choose a [TS]

  wrist or Judas Priest yeah I learned [TS]

  what your earlier you were a big we've [TS]

  talked about this [TS]

  def leppard Judas Priest first first two [TS]

  dayz top records a early ZZ top and [TS]

  breathe the Iron Maiden ac/dc and you [TS]

  know what what do you get out of sitting [TS]

  in an empty house and going like and [TS]

  dared to turn their back on tennis [TS]

  racket you know yeah anything no it's [TS]

  like Matt out Matt masturbation it's the [TS]

  equivalent of play solitaire but I mean [TS]

  happiness [TS]

  yeah i would play the tennis racket [TS]

  until sweat was pouring down my face huh [TS]

  i would i would do it like and I don't [TS]

  know and what I was two hours obviously [TS]

  I'm I was daydreaming I was having it [TS]

  was having a this like these verdant [TS]

  fields of imagination of me what you [TS]

  thought it felt like to play guitar in [TS]

  ac/dc that's right play guitar and every [TS]

  page with the with the the crowd and [TS]

  you're very familiar with the visual i [TS]

  mean like this is probably a little more [TS]

  French philosophy that we want to get [TS]

  but use your so familiar with the sound [TS]

  that you heard over and over and over [TS]

  and over [TS]

  right right you just leave the little [TS]

  tonearm thing up and place I plays over [TS]

  and over and then you've seen probably [TS]

  the videos you seen in cream in whatever [TS]

  guitar for the Pakistan musician you've [TS]

  seen all this stuff so you feel like [TS]

  you've got everything except the ability [TS]

  to play guitar the magic only missing [TS]

  piece you've imagined it imagine it and [TS]

  then have a certain point I think as a [TS]

  listen boy you have to transform it into [TS]

  some kind of something physical yeah the [TS]

  physical action of participating in your [TS]

  imaginative fantasy and it's why you [TS]

  know it's why it's not enough to sit and [TS]

  imagine playing war you have to go out [TS]

  and play war with your friends and [TS]

  you're not actually shooting each other [TS]

  your attention eh oh yeah and I think [TS]

  and and and imagining myself playing [TS]

  guitar on a stage was was a i think that [TS]

  the thing that got me to actually first [TS]

  figure out what's that first course so [TS]

  frustrating gotta learn that so it's [TS]

  just like if I could have taken a pill [TS]

  and gone from pictures of matchstick men [TS]

  into being able to actually go smoothly [TS]

  smoothly smoothly right I would have [TS]

  taken that pill in a second it was crazy [TS]

  and you're the quote that I've heard a [TS]

  million times that I think applies to [TS]

  all kinds stuff it's not how many years [TS]

  you played how many hours you play right [TS]

  like maybe you can get really good at [TS]

  guitar if you really work at it [TS]

  seriously for like two or three months [TS]

  you can get pretty okay guitar at least [TS]

  you have any dexterity at all which I [TS]

  don't really know I my hand is like a [TS]

  unique flavor immediately so you're [TS]

  playing along with dirty deeds [TS]

  you're just going to eat your player [TS]

  playing open chords yeah at this point [TS]

  right [TS]

  okay wewe trying to speak following on [TS]

  solos [TS]

  oh you know but I just don't have I [TS]

  can't there's no speed you can see my [TS]

  hand doesn't respond to commands from my [TS]

  brain [TS]

  I just I don't you just be honest but [TS]

  we're not we're not altering this at all [TS]

  this is actual real time that's his [TS]

  quickest John can move his hand it's [TS]

  just it's hard to even sit here and [TS]

  watch it but but it's true and i see i [TS]

  see people our age people into their [TS]

  thirties still being frustrated by [TS]

  collect huh [TS]

  thank you people into our early thirties [TS]

  people who just have crossed into their [TS]

  30 huh [TS]

  or-or-or letter of the idea [TS]

  um I see them time and time again being [TS]

  frustrated by the fact that in their [TS]

  imagination they are much better at the [TS]

  thing they want to do then they are when [TS]

  they actually put their hands on the [TS]

  thing and try and do it so they can see [TS]

  where they would be a great architect or [TS]

  they can they picture themselves being a [TS]

  great you know a game designer or [TS]

  or-or somebody like said somebody's [TS]

  watching the show and like I could do a [TS]

  show like that you just point the camera [TS]

  a couple of guys and make a shower get [TS]

  some Chinese people playing basketball [TS]

  odds you know little bit have no idea [TS]

  what went into getting them but then you [TS]

  actually put your hands on the thing and [TS]

  utilize I'm not as good at this as as I [TS]

  as I know why [TS]

  mm-hmm and so I felt that I guitar big [TS]

  time so I'm not going to it i'm [TS]

  frustrated at it yeah and I'm gonna go [TS]

  yeah and then and when you're when [TS]

  you're 15 or 16 and that's you know [TS]

  flanks or whatever but when you get to [TS]

  be 35 and that is still the thing that's [TS]

  inhibiting you from doing from doing [TS]

  anything they are beyond just going to [TS]

  work at your job [TS]

  yeah then you know that then it then you [TS]

  need to overcome you need to get past [TS]

  the the fact that your imagination is [TS]

  better at the thing than then your hands [TS]

  and actually get in and start learning [TS]

  how to do something because i see i mean [TS]

  as a musician i made a lot of people who [TS]

  are like oh man it's so cool that you [TS]

  like to get to do what you love and you [TS]

  know and I just have I work at this job [TS]

  at school or whatever but you know I [TS]

  really we wish i was learning that and I [TS]

  i hate to always be the life coach in [TS]

  those situations but I'm like it's hard [TS]

  for you so I remember you always [TS]

  somebody an opinion on the high hate it [TS]

  so much [TS]

  sometimes people have to ask i had not [TS]

  getting paid for it but I but you know [TS]

  every one of those people has a dream [TS]

  that's achievable [TS]

  I've never met a person that had a dream [TS]

  that was unachievable sometimes [TS]

  disturbingly achievable so achievable [TS]

  just right there and that but they feel [TS]

  like the little bit of practice that [TS]

  they have to do the little bit of like [TS]

  you know like oh that requires a [TS]

  graduate degree [TS]

  well yeah it does but you know how easy [TS]

  a fucking graduate degree is to get you [TS]

  know many morons I know they have [TS]

  graduate degrees most of them they're [TS]

  there all morning I be requisite like [TS]

  being called dr. they really do like I i [TS]

  think we should i don't know i want to [TS]

  be called you get your master's degree [TS]

  now I have a master's degree in a couple [TS]

  of things [TS]

  I i will want people to call me [TS]

  bachelor-man bachelor every time [TS]

  something system being called doctor dr. [TS]

  Rosen penis I want to insist that they [TS]

  call me back bachelor-man we don't get [TS]

  work for that guy I went to school for [TS]

  four years so yeah except now they hand [TS]

  out bachelor's degrees too many tests [TS]

  well sure it's not hard [TS]

  frustrating for me when i first started [TS]

  playing guitar I really want to be good [TS]

  fast and for me that first thing was I [TS]

  want to be able to play along with [TS]

  beautiful songs more than anything in [TS]

  the world but that's the cords are so [TS]

  unless you have a really easy the easy [TS]

  Beatles corso squirrely I'm learning to [TS]

  play a 6-quart like I said you know it's [TS]

  weird you know and of course I was [TS]

  barely mastering g which is really [TS]

  matter not a little song without the six [TS]

  know you gotta at the end on it [TS]

  yeah but-but-but I think something [TS]

  something analogous today it's what [TS]

  you're describing which is even if you [TS]

  do get good at guitar they do get good [TS]

  songwriting it strikes me that still one [TS]

  of the most crazy making of enterprises [TS]

  is recording and I wouldn't want our [TS]

  band record back in Tallahassee and this [TS]

  is could not have been more welcoming [TS]

  informal you know it's an aide a 12 pack [TS]

  and it could not have been more [TS]

  comfortable environment but it read a [TS]

  whole career out of that got a blessing [TS]

  but you know what i mean it's like an [TS]

  invisible your recording recording it's [TS]

  like it's god it's almost like cost [TS]

  accounting or dentistry to took to be [TS]

  recording and overdubbing and redoing [TS]

  and then you realize something early on [TS]

  there's something on the drums that you [TS]

  can't fix now and it's too late [TS]

  especially using a four-track or an [TS]

  eight-track you're saying though and [TS]

  it's I think the thing you're describing [TS]

  about not being able to get your hand on [TS]

  it quite right [TS]

  it's so frustrating it seems like it [TS]

  would be you're paying for it your pan [TS]

  your cash to go be in the studio to make [TS]

  that record people forget that record [TS]

  that recording is its own art form [TS]

  completely separate from being good at [TS]

  guitar or analogous but very different [TS]

  scale very different skills being a [TS]

  great like onstage live presence who can [TS]

  like sing on key is so different from [TS]

  being somebody who can let go play the [TS]

  solo twice the same way and I think [TS]

  everybody that's a fan of music nose [TS]

  knows the experience both of getting a [TS]

  record like the my bloody valentine [TS]

  record which is an incredible record and [TS]

  you listen to it you're like oh man [TS]

  awesome and then you'll see them live in [TS]

  it's like watching paint dry [TS]

  they're terrible life and and then your [TS]

  favorite band that you think love to go [TS]

  see and they're just this incredible [TS]

  charismatic kick-ass band you buy their [TS]

  records and it's always a cold shower [TS]

  because the record just doesn't capture [TS]

  that the music that's the that process [TS]

  that process can be I mean I've watched [TS]

  you up close and from afar [TS]

  putting the last record together it took [TS]

  you a long time it was a lot of zeros a [TS]

  lot of yet false starts and and you're [TS]

  somebody who takes that shit really [TS]

  seriously and everywhere you aren't fun [TS]

  in and it was still very trying to be [TS]

  very frustrating it was as its first [TS]

  frustrating mainly because again you in [TS]

  your mind you know how you want to [TS]

  record the sound and you know that you [TS]

  can do it and you know it's just waiting [TS]

  on the other side of some amount of time [TS]

  that has to pass where stuff happens you [TS]

  know like how many times when you're [TS]

  starting out making a record do you just [TS]

  sit there on the couch and go i wish [TS]

  this record was just done and we can [TS]

  look back on how fun it was to make but [TS]

  looking forward at all the work that you [TS]

  have to do and all the times when you [TS]

  don't you're at a crossroads and you [TS]

  don't know which way to go [TS]

  you know it's excruciating and this is [TS]

  also the first time that you have done [TS]

  this pretty much almost all in your hand [TS]

  right i mean you did you were you were [TS]

  kind of project manager as well as a [TS]

  songwriter the singer in the guitar [TS]

  player and yeah I mean we have a great [TS]

  engineer few Lloyd Wright's my was the [TS]

  was the engineer and without him I [TS]

  couldn't make sure your the production [TS]

  credit on the site i produced ok and end [TS]

  it in music you know like what who is [TS]

  the producer it's like directing [TS]

  yourself in a movie it is it's like [TS]

  writing directing and producing a movie [TS]

  and sometimes you make great movies that [TS]

  way and sometimes a lot of times they're [TS]

  invisible because there's no one [TS]

  standing there saying like know that the [TS]

  shot you know like the shot of you [TS]

  getting out of the shower is an [TS]

  essential to the film and it actually is [TS]

  a turnoff for knowing knowing when to [TS]

  move on knowing when to go you know what [TS]

  that's going to be fine and i just [TS]

  cannot spend another day on you know [TS]

  getting your amp to sound the way you [TS]

  want the way that my perfectionism [TS]

  manifest itself is not let's do that [TS]

  take 80 times that is not the kind of [TS]

  perfectionism i have like I'm generally [TS]

  if but if the take was actually my [TS]

  suppliers agree with that [TS]

  well you know you know that that's Mike [TS]

  you look at you get Mike on here but no [TS]

  I don't want I don't want to do it take [TS]

  80 times i do it until it until it [TS]

  wow that's good and a lot of times it's [TS]

  the first or second tank [TS]

  a lot of the vocal performances or you [TS]

  know run it down once then again and [TS]

  then keep the third one but at the way [TS]

  when you've got that when you got the [TS]

  the cash register [TS]

  you know clicking every few minutes in [TS]

  your head you got me thinking yourself [TS]

  does that affect your decision-making [TS]

  also it yeah it does but it's also an [TS]

  attention span thing like the cash [TS]

  register is what keeps me from making a [TS]

  90-minute long records where every song [TS]

  has 80 track sharp of like living it's [TS]

  um Wow walking you know there's always [TS]

  something where you think right before [TS]

  the chorus would it be cool if like 10 [TS]

  of us went into a parking garage and [TS]

  just threw bottles at a wall and [TS]

  recorded it wouldn't that be great you [TS]

  know and it's the cash register that [TS]

  keeps you from doing that but it isn't a [TS]

  cash register that keeps me from doing [TS]

  80 vocal takes it's it's it's a it's a [TS]

  short attention span for that kind of [TS]

  thing for that kind of perfectionism [TS]

  yeah and also a feeling of of that that [TS]

  it's illegitimate in the first vocal [TS]

  that i recorded with ken stringfellow in [TS]

  the producers chair I saying the first [TS]

  three lines you know for the first three [TS]

  words like hey baby I and can push stop [TS]

  on the machine and I look through the [TS]

  glass I was like and he said sounded [TS]

  good [TS]

  alright let's so let's get the next next [TS]

  three words oh no he's a puncher and I [TS]

  was like oh the next three words so he [TS]

  pushes record and listen to myself go [TS]

  hey baby I and then I'm supposed to go [TS]

  love you [TS]

  hmm and he's like stop you know like [TS]

  that was good let's hit you again and I [TS]

  said can I can't I can't work this way [TS]

  and he looked at me through the glass [TS]

  was like what you mean this is how you [TS]

  make records he's never made a record [TS]

  where you didn't do that and I think [TS]

  that was the he's got the motor skills [TS]

  to be punching in and out that fast and [TS]

  through the eighties and nineties that's [TS]

  how they made record allow you and as a [TS]

  so just out of curiosity and fall and [TS]

  fall and so but this wasn't all [TS]

  computery this is under all this is tape [TS]

  he's doing this with tape and I bet this [TS]

  lab this lasted 45 minutes where I set [TS]

  in the mic and said I'm not going to [TS]

  record a bubble this way you need to [TS]

  push record i'll sing the song all the [TS]

  way through and I'll do it again and not [TS]

  maybe i'll do it a third time and then [TS]

  we'll pick the one that's the best and [TS]

  if they're if there's an out-of-tune no [TS]

  out we can punch it in but i'm not going [TS]

  to go i'm not going to go every three [TS]

  words I didn't know they would ever do [TS]

  that on a first take on like a trying to [TS]

  get the that was just that was the [TS]

  method [TS]

  oh man that was how they recorded all [TS]

  those records i think i think you listen [TS]

  to your favorite records from the [TS]

  eighties and they're all recorded that [TS]

  was punched in [TS]

  well so that's question about this [TS]

  though this is a so when people first [TS]

  started putting your band a few gotta go [TS]

  and you realized you're going to have [TS]

  people started quitting my band before [TS]

  before the initial lineup even select [TS]

  people gotta remember it wasn't always [TS]

  fashionable to quit your band there was [TS]

  a time when people were doing some [TS]

  really landmark works and doesn't [TS]

  overwrite you people that smoke was very [TS]

  good where were brave they were now that [TS]

  may pave the way those are some good [TS]

  money funny clever people [TS]

  yeah good riddance yeah that's true [TS]

  that's true but add so I wonder that we [TS]

  talked about it a little bit before but [TS]

  you have a very electric and fun live [TS]

  show [TS]

  I wonder how much the songwriting and [TS]

  the studio stuff especially the left [TS]

  last record do you are you always trying [TS]

  to prepare for the fact that it might be [TS]

  just two or three of you up there are [TS]

  you haha no seriously when you when you [TS]

  when you're putting the record together [TS]

  are you thinking about making it [TS]

  somewhat reproducible is that part of [TS]

  your constraint is can we do this in [TS]

  amsterdam on a PA we don't trust well [TS]

  every record the long winters have made [TS]

  has been different from the last and so [TS]

  obviously the first record we made no [TS]

  attempt to [TS]

  be able to duplicate those songs live [TS]

  and in a lot of cases those songs are [TS]

  there hard for us to play now the second [TS]

  record again we made no attempt to [TS]

  duplicate it would be to be able to [TS]

  duplicate it live and we've struggled to [TS]

  you know to play them live sometimes but [TS]

  it's never constrained us like what if [TS]

  there isn't if the live band is a [TS]

  three-piece band we go out and playing [TS]

  at three we play the three-piece version [TS]

  of the song [TS]

  yeah and we don't it's not like we have [TS]

  reels of tape running behind the stage [TS]

  with all the backing tracks we just get [TS]

  out there and we're all right on this [TS]

  tour where the jam and where to [TS]

  Rickenbacker's in a drum kit and the [TS]

  fact that the record has you know the [TS]

  Vienna Boys Choir on it is not going to [TS]

  be a problem for us and hopefully it [TS]

  isn't a problem for our audience because [TS]

  our audience isn't typically made up of [TS]

  those people who are like with that [TS]

  doesn't send that the record man very [TS]

  forgiving it's not that they're [TS]

  forgiving it's that their adventurous [TS]

  spirit people that with a spirit of [TS]

  discovery they come to our shows and [TS]

  they're like what are the loan was going [TS]

  to give us this time I think on the on [TS]

  the one running out of time the new [TS]

  record on the most recent record we did [TS]

  try a little bit more to rein in some of [TS]

  the some of the experiments that were [TS]

  further afield and make like a rock and [TS]

  roll record but i don't think the next [TS]

  record we make will will will we we we [TS]

  met that challenge head-on and we've [TS]

  made that record so now the next record [TS]

  we're going to probably really explore [TS]

  the outer limits the sky's the limit [TS]

  mmm [TS]

  you [TS]