Roderick on the Line

Ep. 29: "Eventually My Scabs Healed"


  hello hi John [TS]

  I'm Merlin kind of my friend good man [TS]

  do you wanna run on my John Rahn Rick [TS]

  that's the consensus that or you can [TS]

  have all god that's terrible ask people [TS]

  you can have that you can have John haha [TS]

  oh that's what that's awesome [TS]

  you like that one better oh yeah Flash [TS]

  Gordon who John Roderick theme that's [TS]

  amazing i like trying really do it John [TS]

  oh go home take your first getting me [TS]

  that's tailor-made you okay with that i [TS]

  didn't want before that he scoffed know [TS]

  my mother must not have come through [TS]

  clearly because that is exactly what [TS]

  I've always wanted with memory serves [TS]

  you had one eye on that kiss and the [TS]

  other i was on Queen when you're a kid [TS]

  and you your eyes drifted like one lazy [TS]

  eye and the other followed you ended up [TS]

  on queenside accurate [TS]

  that's correct when I was in five think [TS]

  fourth grade it was it was it really [TS]

  could have gone either way queen or kiss [TS]

  and the cheese yeah well you know you [TS]

  could be kiss army which which I was [TS]

  initially a butt or you could be one of [TS]

  the champions between Navy you should be [TS]

  in the Queen maybe you could be in the [TS]

  yeah you could be a sailor in the Queen [TS]

  sub you can be a member of the submarine [TS]

  Queen summary easy it's time that and [TS]

  that and i realized i think i think i [TS]

  was still too young to realize that [TS]

  Queen was infinitely superior to kiss in [TS]

  everyway musically and in every other [TS]

  respect [TS]

  uh-huh i just chose based on i don't [TS]

  know i think you know I think I chose [TS]

  based on heavy ridge [TS]

  it's alright i think the ridge it was [TS]

  the ridge that tipped the scales huh [TS]

  like the kiss ridge if you really strip [TS]

  away all the recount all the makeup and [TS]

  all the boots and almond codpieces [TS]

  and the blood packets you're telling me [TS]

  you're telling me that the ridiculous [TS]

  over-the-top unnecessary the Attic ality [TS]

  of kiss was just too much for you and so [TS]

  you went with queen huh [TS]

  that's correct let me ask you the hard [TS]

  question because I can tell you from [TS]

  that same time my one of my other big [TS]

  man's I was always attracted to that [TS]

  reality we got shot village people have [TS]

  you felt very you live in San Francisco [TS]

  but let those people had a song called [TS]

  San Francisco so good I i was a fan of [TS]

  village before they fine they were fun i [TS]

  was a fan i was a fan of the village [TS]

  people because ACDC genuinely scared me [TS]

  the record covers of ac/dc in the [TS]

  seventies [TS]

  yeah where were genuinely scary they [TS]

  were sweaty men and they looked they [TS]

  looked vile they looked like they wanted [TS]

  to put a finger in you and as a child I [TS]

  instinctively did not want one of their [TS]

  fingers in me from myspace they turn it [TS]

  the other way [TS]

  yeah thanks once again at once it's a [TS]

  highway highway to hell is that the [TS]

  lower Angus has the horns like a sneer [TS]

  there's one yeah it's a snare east near [TS]

  it was scary it I I remember the day [TS]

  that record came out and it was on you [TS]

  know it was on the news on the end cap [TS]

  of every Eiling peaches or whatever [TS]

  story teaches and and I was at the [TS]

  northgate mall with my mom all I wanted [TS]

  was a snow cone and and and my god the [TS]

  the record just uh and i think it was on [TS]

  the records that was on the stands at [TS]

  the same time as as the Village People [TS]

  record and there was no no question the [TS]

  village people seemed much friendlier [TS]

  there was an Indian I mean they seem [TS]

  like guys you could play guns with you [TS]

  know well like like kiss I i think i was [TS]

  attracted them for their what comic [TS]

  book- they're cartoonish pneus you know [TS]

  I mean right yeah i know the deciding [TS]

  factor with Queen I think just [TS]

  was it is that thing that in bryan maze [TS]

  guitar tone [TS]

  uh-huh which is the most organic sound [TS]

  that even a child can understand that [TS]

  that is the greatest guitar tone of all [TS]

  time even a little infant if you played [TS]

  the sound of kiss which is the sound of [TS]

  like handicapped people having sex for [TS]

  the sound of Queen which is the sound of [TS]

  angels singing in the night you have to [TS]

  go with Queen everything I can tell [TS]

  you're feeling better [TS]

  I'm feeling better what kind of handicap [TS]

  oh I mean I movement is a movement [TS]

  impairment is that I you know it's more [TS]

  of a visual thing this is more [TS]

  handi-capable ma the area they turned it [TS]

  around [TS]

  you know they had a disability and they [TS]

  and they made it a strength god bless [TS]

  them [TS]

  yeah i mean imagine what gene Simmons [TS]

  would be doing otherwise imagine him [TS]

  working at a DMV he seems a little i [TS]

  mean like when you me see him talk he [TS]

  seems almost like somebody who would be [TS]

  like in venture capital or debt [TS]

  collection is very business-minded he is [TS]

  Donald Trump but what gene Simmons or [TS]

  Donald Trump next to each other they're [TS]

  the same man even an infant can tell [TS]

  even an infant could listen to those two [TS]

  guys and know that they are that they're [TS]

  an unholy union an unholy hit like a [TS]

  unholy pair of me think about gene [TS]

  Simmons hair for a second when he's not [TS]

  wearing his wig [TS]

  oh that thing he has now it's the same [TS]

  it's Donald Trump's hair it's the same [TS]

  stuff it's made of the same sort of like [TS]

  like a rhinoceros pubic hair [TS]

  what he was going to say I mean Donald [TS]

  Trump's hair looks like a penthouse the [TS]

  couch and I think gene Simmons looks [TS]

  more like something from Japan [TS]

  I mean it's not pixelated don't know why [TS]

  the text everything is very troubling [TS]

  I see what you mean is the Germans are [TS]

  pixelate you know what it was for me [TS]

  with Queen it was harmonies [TS]

  oh yeah now it's very theatrical who was [TS]

  there now we know as music nerds we know [TS]

  that for example on behind [TS]

  wraps you know the strain behavior have [TS]

  seen that the TV show on that are right [TS]

  about it [TS]

  however long it took to do that yeah [TS]

  yeah in fact i have the I have some of [TS]

  them there was a while there the studio [TS]

  nerds didn't like a DVD wallet full of [TS]

  like behind the music thing I do i do [TS]

  have that but in addition to that there [TS]

  was a while there where the studio nerds [TS]

  in the studio owners may be doing this [TS]

  till I haven't been in the recording [TS]

  studio in awhile but there they were [TS]

  trading around the multitrack tapes of [TS]

  various of these great albums and we got [TS]

  the multi-tracks of bohemian rhapsody [TS]

  where you can actually solo the [TS]

  individual tracking bounce [TS]

  well that's the thing I mean it's the [TS]

  gallant until the tape was gonna break [TS]

  that but that's the thing you've got e [TS]

  you're still at the time working on a [TS]

  24-track tape right so there are still [TS]

  24 individual tracks and you could you [TS]

  could solve these tracks and eat track [TS]

  had been bounced down there was so many [TS]

  harmony stacked up on each one of these [TS]

  tracks and then there were multiple [TS]

  tracks of them but just to listen to the [TS]

  individual you know the individual [TS]

  pieces of that puzzle and you just you [TS]

  get one step closer to understanding how [TS]

  it was put together out you know you eat [TS]

  you're sitting in the recording studio [TS]

  listening to it through the good [TS]

  speakers and just like oh my god this is [TS]

  an amazing work and yet we've talked [TS]

  about this in other venues but and [TS]

  surfing through or themselves bounce [TS]

  these in the end eighth-generation tapes [TS]

  for use various sections of tape [TS]

  containing that had to be spliced may [TS]

  recall placing tape in front of the [TS]

  light and being able to see through it [TS]

  as they had been recording so intensely [TS]

  that's unbelievable imagine that the [TS]

  tape broke after all that would be sad [TS]

  although back in back in the day tape [TS]

  you know cutting tape was a big part of [TS]

  making records so the tape you you think [TS]

  about like oh no what the tape broke but [TS]

  in fact they would just cut it back [TS]

  together [TS]

  yeah I went to I went to a speech by Roy [TS]

  Thomas Baker the man who produced the [TS]

  album / business it's two great two [TS]

  great delight on my as far as I'm [TS]

  concerned yeah I listen to him talk [TS]

  about that process [TS]

  listen I don't know it's that is I could [TS]

  go up the I could go up the river all [TS]

  the way to Cambodia [TS]

  uh-huh i was talking about bohemian [TS]

  rhapsody I i would enjoy that now are [TS]

  you in RTP fan in general you like you [TS]

  like the cars that first cars record [TS]

  something else he's incredible he's a [TS]

  great [TS]

  he's a great producer and listening to [TS]

  him talk a great dude whenever I see a [TS]

  little country see from these from the [TS]

  England mhm and in fact you can still go [TS]

  make records with him if you want you [TS]

  can go to England and make a record with [TS]

  Roy Thomas Baker he has a studio and he [TS]

  will make a record with you if you pay [TS]

  him the money he will do it [TS]

  have you thought about that at all well [TS]

  yeah I mean he made he made the team [TS]

  integrate foreigner record he made me [TS]

  maybe he made what I can beat all those [TS]

  emails record he made what i consider to [TS]

  be a and over rate it's underaged excuse [TS]

  me slightly underrated not a hugely [TS]

  underrated it's slightly underrated [TS]

  cheap trick record all right he did a [TS]

  one-on-one which I was just tight that [TS]

  she's tight it's a pretty great song [TS]

  she's nice cease type she's giving me [TS]

  the go [TS]

  he's given me the high sign that's so [TS]

  good it's so good man he made those [TS]

  journey records is that right [TS]

  you know it's 73 records you made [TS]

  infinity made evolution [TS]

  oh come on no he did i'm gonna have two [TS]

  things he's still working if I can work [TS]

  on Chinese Democracy you can make a [TS]

  record with this man and he's hilarious [TS]

  he's a he he looks awesome i don't [TS]

  understand why you're near a computer [TS]

  right now but it is is I'm a big fan i [TS]

  must tell you I've discussed the cells [TS]

  from a big fan of wikipedia photos [TS]

  because as you know they must be public [TS]

  domain and his is it looks like it looks [TS]

  like maybe his aunt or nice perhaps shot [TS]

  it with us something that she got out of [TS]

  a cereal box up is definitely one flash [TS]

  source the flash is very very bright [TS]

  eyes [TS]

  he looks kinda like ozzy osbourne meats [TS]

  like the guy from rocky or not you know [TS]

  this is the thing when you think about [TS]

  work with somebody like him or famously [TS]

  somebody like Todd Rundgren I mean Todd [TS]

  run right [TS]

  has made some people sound really really [TS]

  good but it sounds pretty tough to work [TS]

  with a lot of people are tough to work [TS]

  with [TS]

  I mean I think you can make a record [TS]

  with you can make a record with a lot of [TS]

  sort of rockstars uh-huh and some of [TS]

  those people are are tougher than others [TS]

  I you know I the the the guy from not [TS]

  Elliot Eastern if I could make a record [TS]

  le Eastern I absolutely would but the [TS]

  guitar player of the talking heads [TS]

  Jerry Harrison Jerry Harrison you can [TS]

  make a record with Jerry Harrison and my [TS]

  understanding is that you know that he [TS]

  he like shows up at nuna leaves at five [TS]

  I don't know that to be sure people [TS]

  produced at any produce a peat bog thing [TS]

  a long time ago one of my thing when I [TS]

  confusing that with was no no Jerry [TS]

  Harrison was like young gods or [TS]

  something God's I his pant [TS]

  oh well he was in he was in the modern [TS]

  lovers and lovers but you also do you [TS]

  know what I'm thinking of people i'm [TS]

  sorry i'm totally confused people [TS]

  produced that feels record i like Oh [TS]

  Peter now Peter Buck that would be an [TS]

  interesting guy to have produced your [TS]

  record i bet he have good notes on the [TS]

  songs too [TS]

  he would i do not know how well he would [TS]

  communicate to you though I think scum I [TS]

  meant it wants and he seemed he seemed [TS]

  like a really down-to-earth guy who is [TS]

  extremely nervous [TS]

  Peter Berg miss backstage a thing and he [TS]

  was being mobbed [TS]

  he's an extremely nice man a very nice [TS]

  man a smart and nice person who has what [TS]

  i would characterize speaking as a [TS]

  professional as a mental health [TS]

  professional are characterized him as [TS]

  having a social anxiety disorder [TS]

  ok I have friends that have that yes i [TS]

  know you do i have spent time with your [TS]

  friends yeah what's its kind of its [TS]

  almost prerequisites on the form in [TS]

  which they don't want to fill out [TS]

  because they don't like pencils either [TS]

  you know what to say that as usual can [TS]

  tell you how I stand corrected [TS]

  oh my god he didn't want to whine still [TS]

  a wide stance who have a very wide [TS]

  stance he did he's done of course rtb [TS]

  rtb sorry RGB did a bunch of the Queen [TS]

  records probably looks like almost all [TS]

  heated Devo [TS]

  he did you are absolutely correct i [TS]

  stand further corrected he to infinity [TS]

  and evolution the man instantly we gotta [TS]

  get back to journey at some point it's [TS]

  an awkward awkward thing just talk they [TS]

  did he did the darkness that [TS]

  controversial ban the darkness smashing [TS]

  pumpkin smash because that's a band i [TS]

  could do without you didn't later [TS]

  smashing pumpkins record he's not [TS]

  responsible for them [TS]

  did he did one after after the fat bald [TS]

  kid decided that people need to hear him [TS]

  saying Charlie Brown [TS]

  yeah we're gonna hang back and it [TS]

  smashing pumpkins are classic example of [TS]

  one of those days where I was like [TS]

  everybody likes you [TS]

  what if it's like it here to visit how [TS]

  what the fuck happened was smashing how [TS]

  did they get to be so popular what is [TS]

  her formula John Rother because you were [TS]

  there you worked the ground museum you [TS]

  saw a lot of this go by you you get your [TS]

  bar back your manager you counted money [TS]

  you killed off hundreds what the fuck [TS]

  happened how to Smashing Pumpkins get on [TS]

  our radar screen as you probably know he [TS]

  was a very good guitar player and that [TS]

  music was it was it was I think what it [TS]

  what it was he took the sound of [TS]

  shoegazer uh-huh [TS]

  which was very popular in England but [TS]

  the shoegazer guys except for stone [TS]

  roses or couple other were a lot of [TS]

  songs she gazer was kind of I have more [TS]

  influence here then then interest [TS]

  yeah right it was it was a vibe but but [TS]

  when it would come to America would be [TS]

  like there's no songs there it's just [TS]

  like man them and their mana mana and [TS]

  seven smashing pumpkins kind of had that [TS]

  they got that my bloody valentine [TS]

  thickness to their society that one [TS]

  record I like fish but had vocals were [TS]

  mixed way down [TS]

  who so it sounded like just as wall [TS]

  guitars and then this kind of echoey [TS]

  singer and it's just it sounded really [TS]

  compelling and they had songs so it was [TS]

  kind of like haha haha that's what your [TS]

  that that's always what you were looking [TS]

  for my problem with the Stone Roses was [TS]

  that after that aside from that one tune [TS]

  like the rest of the stuff just felt [TS]

  like Mary I wanna be adored [TS]

  yeah well it or she's a waterfall with [TS]

  one stone roses to the [TS]

  the biggest tip the one where though [TS]

  yeah i was taking the drum drum dance [TS]

  beat [TS]

  yeah i was thinking of that first song [TS]

  that Thun Thun Thun Thun Thun on me [TS]

  here's the problem also with all these [TS]

  social anxiety people i'm guessing here [TS]

  what's his name Charlie Charlie Charlie [TS]

  Rose which is named billy billy corgan [TS]

  Billy Billy Billy Corgan billy corgan [TS]

  the smartest kid in the world he i think [TS]

  it's bob was good [TS]

  billy corgan problem see and this also [TS]

  goes this goes for all these people with [TS]

  the possible exception of prints and [TS]

  maybe Prince is these people who are [TS]

  clearly insane loners who are very [TS]

  gifted and learned you know what about [TS]

  how about how about the the weezer guy [TS]

  like fools gold that was the that was [TS]

  the tombstone whistles full i have that [TS]

  record you know the directors all those [TS]

  records as many as Manchester records [TS]

  like three-quarters of them i had no [TS]

  idea why people like them I still don't [TS]

  understand happy mondays and then a lot [TS]

  of just didn't age well that even the [TS]

  Stone Roses record it did not have legs [TS]

  not like you a lot of other bands of the [TS]

  time they didn't age well they didn't [TS]

  even aged well in the time it took the [TS]

  songs to get from the speakers to your [TS]

  ear by time he took off the plastic but [TS]

  you i'm guessing we're not standing on a [TS]

  beach in goa in 1989 quite nicely not my [TS]

  99 sooner super super high on MDMA and [TS]

  with your body covered in dayglo paint [TS]

  because if you were then the music would [TS]

  have made perfect sense to you [TS]

  uh-huh i actually had of the the sort of [TS]

  strange experience of being in southern [TS]

  Spain in 1989 when all that music was [TS]

  blowing up and I was taking a lot of of [TS]

  of little little square pieces of paper [TS]

  and eating a lot of little bits of like [TS]

  a masculine and actually my train ticket [TS]

  first thing that happens eating a lot of [TS]

  train tickets i was smoking a lot of [TS]

  very black hash that had floated over [TS]

  from Africa who and dancing on the beach [TS]

  to this to this music went to a whole [TS]

  month of [TS]

  beach waves in 89 in Spain and let me [TS]

  tell you the music was was just exactly [TS]

  right for that uh-huh but i was so high [TS]

  and everyone around me was so high we [TS]

  were so high i don't know i guess they [TS]

  could put on Phil Ochs or mitch miller [TS]

  and you're probably so high that you [TS]

  still would have danced in dayglo paint [TS]

  they could have put on you know whipped [TS]

  cream and other delights think the [TS]

  record they could have put on Henry [TS]

  Mancini's baby elephant war haha i would [TS]

  have thought it was the most amazing [TS]

  thing in the world because we just did [TS]

  I'm sorry not the indelible image of you [TS]

  dancing earnestly to her opportunity on [TS]

  her breast pocket up at that the they [TS]

  could have put flight of the bumble bees [TS]

  lap well uh I these beach waves were [TS]

  incredible things that be like this [TS]

  grass hot and they would they would [TS]

  truck out these massive speakers out on [TS]

  the beach and then you would and then [TS]

  colored lights and they would you know [TS]

  they would kind of paint everything was [TS]

  crazy day glow paint and then the drugs [TS]

  were it was assumed that the that [TS]

  everybody had drugs like that wasn't a [TS]

  there was no hey man have you got any [TS]

  drugs [TS]

  it was very much like all right here's [TS]

  the music and now here are some drugs [TS]

  and now here here's some liquor and go [TS]

  and so everybody was wasted and you [TS]

  could get you could walk out into the [TS]

  ocean and the music was still loud you [TS]

  can dance with the waves and and we were [TS]

  young people then there was touching [TS]

  there's a lot of touching this is very [TS]

  this sounds a lot like the sixties John [TS]

  it was a magical time and you know that [TS]

  whole thing that happens in ibiza for [TS]

  the intervening 20 years they've just [TS]

  been trying to recapture those [TS]

  experiences that we a few bold pioneers [TS]

  intrepid pioneers had their in 89 I was [TS]

  AI was just a an accidental tourist [TS]

  through there you know I was on my own [TS]

  mission and came across this thing [TS]

  didn't realize it was a movement that [TS]

  was happening didn't realize it was that [TS]

  there were but it was a sound I was just [TS]

  like wow drugs and girls huh [TS]

  but it kept me there this is this is [TS]

  this is frequently the way certainly [TS]

  that way with the quote-unquote summer [TS]

  of love which if you do even the [TS]

  slightest bit of reading you'll discover [TS]

  was maybe a month there was about a [TS]

  month that went from it's fun to smoke [TS]

  pot and neck to like everybody hates [TS]

  tree has been ruined with heroin it was [TS]

  a very very short time and I like you [TS]

  say the tourists arrive but when you're [TS]

  in the moment of something like that and [TS]

  it doesn't have a name yet you know that [TS]

  success exciting but you know didn't [TS]

  know how did you know it's time to go [TS]

  oh it was time to go because somebody [TS]

  that I met somebody came along was like [TS]

  hey you want to go to Morocco and I was [TS]

  like yeah this is this thing here on the [TS]

  beach has been great but I'm it must be [TS]

  it was like it was like everything when [TS]

  you're young you think that I've never [TS]

  been to the south of Spain before so [TS]

  once I got there I and this was going on [TS]

  I was like oh this must be what it's [TS]

  like in the south of Spain a bunch of [TS]

  English kids listening to really loud [TS]

  music and and tripping on ecstasy I [TS]

  didn't it [TS]

  I didn't know that it was just a it was [TS]

  just a moment [TS]

  uh-huh and so a so yeah I then I went to [TS]

  Morocco I spent I spent a month there [TS]

  trying to I got to Morocco and I and I [TS]

  decided that I was going to hitchhike to [TS]

  Mount Kilimanjaro I had died i just [TS]

  turned 21 I turned 21 in cadiz spain and [TS]

  I was so I was 21 and and two days old [TS]

  and I'm in Morocco and I say I'm in [TS]

  Africa i'm going to hitchhike to Mount [TS]

  Kilimanjaro and so off I go and I stick [TS]

  out my thumb and I realize you know [TS]

  gonna have to take a couple of like of [TS]

  those African brothers the Moroccan [TS]

  buses that are full of like the bus has [TS]

  a bunch of chickens in and then their [TS]

  goats [TS]

  time to the roof but I spent two weeks [TS]

  going heading south in Morocco the whole [TS]

  time like yeah I'm going to kill him in [TS]

  jarrow and it and nobody's listening to [TS]

  me and I finally get I finally get down [TS]

  to the edge of the Sahara to a town [TS]

  called wars on and what does that is a [TS]

  this is pretty far down there on the on [TS]

  the other side of the other side of the [TS]

  mountains and kind of you know your you [TS]

  are now at the at the north edge of the [TS]

  desert and and and they're these trucks [TS]

  coming through this town that are headed [TS]

  across that are headed across the desert [TS]

  and I and I get it I get another hitch [TS]

  another ride [TS]

  I get down to this little town called [TS]

  zagora and it's it's really the last [TS]

  it's really pretty close to the last [TS]

  town before the Sahara and I'm I'm [TS]

  standard this hotel and I'm talking to [TS]

  people I'm like an end and its really [TS]

  it's an oasis you know what I mean like [TS]

  it's desert desert desert then you come [TS]

  to this little town zagora blue palm [TS]

  trees and a little and there's a there's [TS]

  like a pond it's like an oasis like a [TS]

  proper pond in the desert with frogs and [TS]

  stuff I'm talking to these guys in the [TS]

  hotel these truck drivers and I'm like [TS]

  you know hey can I get a ride with you [TS]

  across the desert and everybody laughs [TS]

  like so I go to another group and I'm [TS]

  like I'm trying to get across the desert [TS]

  you know can get comments right with you [TS]

  everybody laughs and finally somebody [TS]

  some you know some trucker grabs me by [TS]

  the shirt is like do you realize how [TS]

  long this drivers cross the desert and [TS]

  he you know he draws a little map on a [TS]

  coaster things like here's Africa cheers [TS]

  the Sahara here [TS]

  are we and here's how long you've [TS]

  traveled in the last two weeks you know [TS]

  and it had taken me two weeks to go the [TS]

  length of a his pinky fingernail and he [TS]

  was showing me that the route across the [TS]

  desert was from the tip of his finger to [TS]

  his elbow you know Wow and he said we [TS]

  carry you know we carry three weeks [TS]

  worth of water for each person you know [TS]

  the trucks these desert these contracts [TS]

  across the Sahara these but they're not [TS]

  just like semi trucks that these massive [TS]

  big tires that massive like desert dune [TS]

  buggy type of things and so anyway this [TS]

  trucker was like there's no one that's [TS]

  ever going to pick up a hitchhiker in [TS]

  Zagora and travel with him two and a [TS]

  half weeks across the desert like we are [TS]

  we are highly paid specialists and this [TS]

  is a massive undertaking and well you [TS]

  know you're you're just you're way out [TS]

  of your league here [TS]

  what kind of stuff with a truck across [TS]

  that distance so i'm guessing not live [TS]

  animals [TS]

  no no its you know like the town of [TS]

  Timbuktu is out there somewhere there [TS]

  are there are they came back to that we [TS]

  refer to as out in the middle of nowhere [TS]

  yeah the actual Timbuktu is in the [TS]

  center of is on that road somewhere and [TS]

  you know they they used to all the [TS]

  people that live in that massive expanse [TS]

  of land used to get all their stuff by [TS]

  camel camel caravan and now they now [TS]

  these trucks you know provide the [TS]

  provide a living to all those people in [TS]

  Mali and I mean not only knows i i i i [TS]

  barely grasp it even now that the way [TS]

  that the way the world works but I'll so [TS]

  finally the this whole trip I've been [TS]

  taking across rock why i had not looked [TS]

  at a map i just i kept heading south and [TS]

  I figured I would when I got to [TS]

  kilimanjaro I would know because it was [TS]

  a mountain [TS]

  and when I realized that that Africa is [TS]

  so much bigger than I could have [TS]

  imagined that trip would have been that [TS]

  was a that was a lifetime undertaking [TS]

  and I was trying to make it you know [TS]

  while listening to the Traveling [TS]

  Wilburys and on my waterproof walk [TS]

  manner that was that was one of like the [TS]

  five moments in my life when I realized [TS]

  that I was completely out of my depth [TS]

  and and not didn't just need to like go [TS]

  go back and regroup but needed to really [TS]

  go back and think about how stupid I was [TS]

  like put some serious thought into how [TS]

  stupid I was and the problem was the [TS]

  government zagora and now i'm at the [TS]

  edge of the Sahara and I need to get [TS]

  back i need to go back north and [TS]

  nobody's going north [TS]

  everybody's going south nobody's going [TS]

  north and i ended up having to end up [TS]

  getting a cab but in back and Wars ox a [TS]

  guy with a cab and we sat in the public [TS]

  square negotiated you know for two hours [TS]

  with 25 little kids standing around us [TS]

  where he's like all right i'll take you [TS]

  i'm not going back to Marrakech but i'll [TS]

  take you across you know like his mom or [TS]

  whatever lived over and in over by the [TS]

  Algerian border or something like that [TS]

  and I was like okay I'm alright with you [TS]

  and I'll get it ended up being 40 bucks [TS]

  or something like that about yeah he [TS]

  drove me all the way he told me all such [TS]

  an incredible journey of stupidity [TS]

  so you were fined by the city your pants [TS]

  a lot of time that you you aren't you [TS]

  aren't you sound like you have your [TS]

  knowledge of geography is obviously very [TS]

  strong but you you it wasn't like [TS]

  Indiana Jones you see a plane flying [TS]

  through the air on a map thing you don't [TS]

  have an itinerary just following your [TS]

  nose [TS]

  no absolutely fall in my nose I did that [TS]

  for I did that for a long time and and [TS]

  the the great thing is that you can be [TS]

  somewhere you can end up somewhere that [TS]

  you couldn't have plan to be like for [TS]

  instance i was in berlin [TS]

  today the wall came down you're kidding [TS]

  no you're Selleck no yeah well we have [TS]

  maybe a little bit i mean i-i was I've [TS]

  been a lot of places where the thing [TS]

  happened when I was there I was in [TS]

  oakland the day the Oakland fire started [TS]

  Wow and I was sitting at the breakfast [TS]

  table with the with this girl I knew and [TS]

  she looked out of the window and she was [TS]

  like what the sky looks weird and I [TS]

  looked out and said yeah I got it [TS]

  it's like orange the sky is orange it [TS]

  was you know eight o'clock in the [TS]

  morning that morning and we walked out [TS]

  in the yard and the whole hill above her [TS]

  house was on fire and we jumped in the [TS]

  car and says scary it was amazing we [TS]

  jumped in the car and of course you know [TS]

  with me behind the wheel and headed [TS]

  toward it and drove up into the up into [TS]

  oakland until we came 2a we came to a [TS]

  place where like waves of fire we're [TS]

  going across the street and if we tend [TS]

  to continue up the road we would have [TS]

  had to have driven under fire and we [TS]

  stopped and and suddenly realized that [TS]

  this wasn't like hey let's go up and [TS]

  look at the fire it was that this was a [TS]

  absolutely uncontrolled conflagration [TS]

  and we were going to die and we turn the [TS]

  car out of people were running you know [TS]

  like people were running holding their [TS]

  family pets we turned around and headed [TS]

  back down the hill and with the fire [TS]

  like on our heels and got to a place [TS]

  where the fire department blocked off [TS]

  the road after we've gone past so we had [TS]

  to get through there roadblock headed [TS]

  the other way you know in this massive [TS]

  stream of people and over the course of [TS]

  the day we removed three four different [TS]

  times where we would get to a place to [TS]

  be like okay who are safe and then the [TS]

  tidal wave of fire trees were exploding [TS]

  in the air it was the craziest thing [TS]

  I've ever seen [TS]

  and now you know what was I doing there [TS]

  who knows [TS]

  but uh but yeah i was in berlin in 89 [TS]

  the the day they open the wall and it [TS]

  was just because I was like I've been in [TS]

  Florence a few days before and somebody [TS]

  said that we should go to Berlin and I [TS]

  went that's insane [TS]

  yeah but the proto the problem of [TS]

  traveling that way is that sometimes you [TS]

  are one and a half blocks away from the [TS]

  world's largest ball of twine and you [TS]

  don't and you don't see it because you [TS]

  don't know that it's there because you [TS]

  never have opened a guidebook looked you [TS]

  know you so you just traveling by the [TS]

  seat of your pants and you and you [TS]

  actually miss some of the stuff that it [TS]

  would have been easy to see because just [TS]

  like anything different now be today I [TS]

  mean as soon as I arrive anywhere i have [TS]

  an iphone in my hand the whole time I'm [TS]

  somewhere you know who I'm not only my [TS]

  relying on the maps john i'm relying on [TS]

  the little let me hit the arrow twice to [TS]

  show me which direction to walk huh [TS]

  right you know and then I add a guy and [TS]

  even then I realized it just walked the [TS]

  wrong way to starbucks the other way [TS]

  some of that stuff like when I was out [TS]

  in in in you know in Zagora or certainly [TS]

  when I was walking across just for [TS]

  reference i'm gonna have we're gonna get [TS]

  an intern [TS]

  I'm gonna have them go back and Google [TS]

  every one of these fake cities that you [TS]

  don't are you're not writing these down [TS]

  on on three-by-five cards anymore i [TS]

  don't hear the three-by-five cards [TS]

  flapping a i can't i can't keep up [TS]

  anymore I still look at something over [TS]

  here all right Thomas Baker but I i'm at [TS]

  sag or I started glazing over haha water [TS]

  sloshes now that's a hell of a town [TS]

  yeah great little town if you're in [TS]

  there ever in the neighborhood but [TS]

  what's amazing is that during all those [TS]

  times like there were weeks weeks and [TS]

  weeks at a time when I was completely [TS]

  out of touch with the world i didn't [TS]

  have such a strange personality will [TS]

  stop but it's it's it's so interesting [TS]

  to me like you that you can like be okay [TS]

  with that much lack of roots you know I [TS]

  mean and not knowing anything just [TS]

  compared to me were like you know I like [TS]

  to make an appointment to go to the [TS]

  bathroom like free like it's just [TS]

  amazing to me that you could be on the [TS]

  road so long I you know not knowing when [TS]

  the next meal is not knowing like I [TS]

  think you [TS]

  well let's get so that's a little crazy [TS]

  it's amazing i mean you know in one case [TS]

  obviously [TS]

  you realize you can't ride across the [TS]

  desert but man that's that it's I don't [TS]

  say reckless but it's certainly very [TS]

  adventurous [TS]

  well the greatest thing that ever [TS]

  happened to me or the most mind flipping [TS]

  thing that ever happened was i I was [TS]

  sleeping in a park in them in a V own [TS]

  France who which is the site of the the [TS]

  song syrup own w/o also where the [TS]

  damaged cells live that's where the [TS]

  devil cells live there were Pope's there [TS]

  for a little bit yeah they had a whole [TS]

  second field on the second Pope town but [TS]

  i was sleeping in a park in that town [TS]

  and I woke up and there was a man [TS]

  standing over me in the in the dark and [TS]

  I look to my left and I realized that my [TS]

  bag was gone my bank had been stolen [TS]

  shit and this guy was standing over me [TS]

  and he was clearly trying to he was [TS]

  bending over trying to figure out how to [TS]

  get what he knew was probably my [TS]

  passport and my money which was around [TS]

  my neck and I jumped you know i squirted [TS]

  out of this bag like a like a like jello [TS]

  coming out about you know squeeze LOL [TS]

  squirter like Joe coming out of a [TS]

  jealous water and this guy starts [TS]

  running and I start running after him in [TS]

  my bare feet and we run and run and run [TS]

  all over a video we're running open [TS]

  running on the on the little freeway [TS]

  were running down by the river where I'm [TS]

  chasing this guy and I'm swearing at him [TS]

  and keys hiciste and just in front of me [TS]

  the whole time and and finally he jumps [TS]

  over up like a metal retaining a metal [TS]

  like barrier on a highway he he leaps [TS]

  over this thing and I leave and I catch [TS]

  my toe right on the edge of it and it's [TS]

  slammed on the ground I'm all bloody and [TS]

  he gets away and I go back to my little [TS]

  place where I've been sleeping and [TS]

  there's nothing left they came and took [TS]

  my sleeping bag while I was to my god [TS]

  and suck having young yeah it's well you [TS]

  know of France says there's there's a [TS]

  there's a lot of people in France that's [TS]

  true but in any case i'm walking around [TS]

  i do have much they did leave my shoes [TS]

  and I can only thing that they left my [TS]

  shoes [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  as a gesture of human kindness you know [TS]

  what I mean [TS]

  Bonnie that's right they could have [TS]

  taken the shoes too but they left the [TS]

  shoes as a as like hey we're not animals [TS]

  are not monsters like Germany so I'm [TS]

  limping around the mall now let me just [TS]

  be clear heat the heat and he was able [TS]

  to nab the thing around your neck so [TS]

  your passport listen money list and [TS]

  really good he was not able to make each [TS]

  one teach one kick his ass [TS]

  I was gonna kick his ass i was gonna get [TS]

  this guy and I was gonna beat him within [TS]

  an inch of his life teach my french [TS]

  lesson and probably if I had caught him [TS]

  he would have knifed me with what he [TS]

  surely had in his hand which was surely [TS]

  a stiletto like I was stupid to chase [TS]

  him and while i was chasing him his [TS]

  friends came and stole my sleeping bag [TS]

  and probably the guys that had my [TS]

  backpack we're standing 25 feet away the [TS]

  direction and I should have gone to [TS]

  chase them instead but I didn't see them [TS]

  i just saw this guy and I was like you [TS]

  but in any case i spent a few days [TS]

  walking around avion now without a [TS]

  sleeping bag at night looking at all the [TS]

  trash cans and you know and down all the [TS]

  embankment sand under all the bushes for [TS]

  them having stripped everything out of [TS]

  my bag but like the last but because [TS]

  there were some journals i was hoping [TS]

  they'd throw the journals in the garbage [TS]

  i wanted to get get my journals at least [TS]

  through never found anything but I had [TS]

  my passport and I had a I had the money [TS]

  that I had around my neck and I had some [TS]

  people that I was supposed to meet her [TS]

  supposed to meet some people was the [TS]

  story i'm supposed to meet some people [TS]

  in madrid in like eight days [TS]

  some people had met earlier that were [TS]

  like me to submit on the 15th or [TS]

  something I was like I'll me in madrid [TS]

  on the 15 so i was in having him and I [TS]

  just was like well [TS]

  I'm not going to replace all that stuff [TS]

  and I just started traveling with the [TS]

  clothes on my back [TS]

  she's and you know and I was obviously I [TS]

  was covered with like blood for a while [TS]

  but i watch the blood out of the clothes [TS]

  and eventually my my scabs healed and [TS]

  for another five months i traveled all [TS]

  around Europe in in just the clothes on [TS]

  my back and I probably smelled terrible [TS]

  i mean i would wash my clothes in the [TS]

  sink at youth hostels and stuff and hang [TS]

  them up to dry and then in the morning I [TS]

  did still be a little damp I put them on [TS]

  and and they be driving an hour and it [TS]

  was the most liberating experience in my [TS]

  life I've never did not realize how free [TS]

  you could be I would fight with fall [TS]

  asleep on a train right fall asleep on a [TS]

  park bench or whatever I wake up and [TS]

  just stand up and start walking because [TS]

  I had nothing there was no like here let [TS]

  me get my stuff let me pack my sleeping [TS]

  bag back in its in its bag and what that [TS]

  was great and it worked quite well until [TS]

  winter came [TS]

  ok and then I was screwed the thing that [TS]

  you're talking about about about just [TS]

  casting yourself loose in the world but [TS]

  the people I've admired the most were [TS]

  the ones that were able to take it [TS]

  further than I wasn't able to do which [TS]

  were that they that they severed their [TS]

  attachments their mental attachments to [TS]

  home which I had it was never able to do [TS]

  I i won't mean a they didn't have a home [TS]

  base or it didn't matter that they [TS]

  didn't have a home base that that [TS]

  somehow they either pretended very well [TS]

  or they truly did not ever want to go [TS]

  see their mom again they never what they [TS]

  never dreamt of going back going home to [TS]

  see their mom and having Christmas at [TS]

  home with their mom [TS]

  and no matter how far out i would get it [TS]

  no matter how much i was out sleeping [TS]

  under a tree somewhere and by all [TS]

  appearances like um just if somebody [TS]

  come along and said come with me to Abu [TS]

  Dhabi i would have said absolutely here [TS]

  we go [TS]

  but as I'm sitting there under the tree [TS]

  I'm thinking I'm like dreaming of home [TS]

  you know and it was a mental connection [TS]

  to to home that I couldn't sever and the [TS]

  people that were that I saw out there [TS]

  one when I was living at that close to [TS]

  the edge I guess if you you know the [TS]

  edge of being like outside of [TS]

  civilization the people that I admired [TS]

  that I would meet sometimes who had a [TS]

  look of like of the of real dastardly [TS]

  self-possession I don't I didn't sense [TS]

  in them that they had any desire to ever [TS]

  go home [TS]

  why would you even do that because I [TS]

  would because I didn't because I kept [TS]

  feeling like I was tethered that I [TS]

  wasn't that I that I that I wasn't brave [TS]

  enough to to sever that connection you [TS]

  know and in a way it might be that that [TS]

  connection is what safe [TS]

  it saved my life multiple times that's [TS]

  why I never did intravenous drugs [TS]

  because there were a lot of things that [TS]

  I could there are a lot of things that I [TS]

  did that I did not that that connection [TS]

  to home didn't interfere with my choice [TS]

  to do bad things but there were certain [TS]

  bad things i never did I did not ever [TS]

  steal I didn't ever you know like the [TS]

  third there were a to live that life and [TS]

  and yet to have a personal prohibition [TS]

  on ever stealing like shoplifting a [TS]

  thing of yogurt or whatever it was [TS]

  beneath my dignity and that was because [TS]

  of this idea [TS]

  of home that I had and you know [TS]

  particularly of one day walking back in [TS]

  through the front door my mother's house [TS]

  and i think it's a it's saved me [TS]

  multiple times but at the time I [TS]

  recognized it was the thing that kept me [TS]

  from being truly wild all the way wild [TS]

  and those people that were all the way [TS]

  wild I really you know I really admired [TS]

  them sitting around the campfires with [TS]

  them and seeing that look in their eye [TS]

  and that might have been a put-on to you [TS]

  know that I don't up people are capable [TS]

  of putting that look this is what you're [TS]

  describing now is on this could be the [TS]

  same things might be a phospholipid on [TS]

  the one hand you're talking about [TS]

  something very close to monasticism or [TS]

  or this idea of being free of I don't [TS]

  say attachment is maybe to buddhist of a [TS]

  word but being being free of of the of [TS]

  the yearning for for things not one not [TS]

  only not missing it but not finding [TS]

  yourself you know yearning for the [TS]

  things you missed on the other end [TS]

  you're talking about fucking Psychopaths [TS]

  right there is and you're absolutely [TS]

  right [TS]

  very natural it's very I would have had [TS]

  maybe i'm justin m at middle American [TS]

  which I am but it seems like that desire [TS]

  to have a place in the tribe goes way [TS]

  beyond you know people who are born in [TS]

  the sixties that that's a pretty old [TS]

  idea [TS]

  yeah and that was precisely why I wanted [TS]

  to get away from it you know the line [TS]

  between being a great monk between being [TS]

  like a true monk and being a total [TS]

  psychopath is a pretty nebulous line you [TS]

  know the the great the great mystics are [TS]

  all reviled in their in their own time [TS]

  and a lot of our fucking nuts Tim well a [TS]

  lot of them are nuts and a lot of them [TS]

  are burned at the stake for being nuts [TS]

  but there but but oh but the work that [TS]

  they do the mystical work that they do [TS]

  pushing pushing on behalf of all ppl [TS]

  outward always outward who two [TS]

  generations later we Revere them and we [TS]

  read their writings and I think that [TS]

  they are that they were the great [TS]

  but there that they were the great [TS]

  leaders and in fact in their own time [TS]

  they were you know they were chased out [TS]

  of the village I'm so I you know I [TS]

  didn't have a sixties affectation past a [TS]

  certain point I wasn't trying to like go [TS]

  further as management people of our of [TS]

  our generation and mandarin and then [TS]

  that was the impetus initially like hey [TS]

  man let's go [TS]

  was there any kind of like a beats sort [TS]

  of influence [TS]

  no no I hated all that shit is that [TS]

  right or not very long i mean i like [TS]

  bubbles and have not had no idea that is [TS]

  all balls he wrote the sheltering sky [TS]

  ok but but he wrote he wrote a lot of [TS]

  great short stories and he translated a [TS]

  lot of um translated from arabic a lot [TS]

  of Sir full details as told to him by [TS]

  his moroccan houseboy mohamed mohamed [TS]

  mohabbat who was this sort of great [TS]

  ended up being this great moroccan [TS]

  writer but no I was at the beach and all [TS]

  that stuff it's just that that all [TS]

  seemed very like look back look look at [TS]

  back in itself and i just wanted to see [TS]

  what the limits were you know that's all [TS]

  those things again it's like the hippies [TS]

  or it's like any of that stuff there [TS]

  even for that matter people's obsession [TS]

  with something like monasticism is in a [TS]

  religious context and an hour just in [TS]

  the same way that you couldn't keep [TS]

  dancing on the on the beach in Spain [TS]

  I mean that you know it people's [TS]

  attachment to that kind of stuff even [TS]

  though it's the attachment to a kind of [TS]

  freedom [TS]

  I mean it's like being attached to like [TS]

  the thanksgiving dinner you had a 98 [TS]

  it's gone like that it's not a thing [TS]

  anymore you're not gonna you're not [TS]

  gonna recreate that and that's we get [TS]

  into somebody like me I guess in the [TS]

  tourism you know like like heroin [TS]

  tourism [TS]

  I mean you know what I mean it's like [TS]

  you're it'sit's such difference to be [TS]

  somebody who travels in order to like I [TS]

  ok here's a classic example and I've [TS]

  certainly been guilty of this everywhere [TS]

  I've ever gone somebody comes to san [TS]

  francisco and what do they say they say [TS]

  well we're going to Fisherman's Wharf [TS]

  you know we're gonna go eat chocolate [TS]

  sure you got any Alcatraz you worked out [TS]

  all into one five day adventure hell and [TS]

  you know i i'm i'm not a native San [TS]

  Franciscan but in the in the most you [TS]

  know use the way i can try to say well [TS]

  you should [TS]

  that stuff and get your photos and stuff [TS]

  the really i would not block out more [TS]

  than half a day for that Alcatraz super [TS]

  fun but really there isn't you when you [TS]

  go to any of those peers you're going to [TS]

  get the same experience with slightly [TS]

  different weather and slightly different [TS]

  clothes [TS]

  it's the same experience you would get [TS]

  in a touristy part of gatlinburg or a [TS]

  touristy part of fort myers like you're [TS]

  getting the international tourist [TS]

  experience there it's just there's crab [TS]

  and its kind of costly but that's the [TS]

  thing if you come to san francisco and [TS]

  again I don't think don't go see the [TS]

  golden gate bridge is fucking amazing [TS]

  but you know that there's a certain kind [TS]

  of approach to that stuff where that [TS]

  wanderlusts reads as I wanna get my [TS]

  picture taken at the Eiffel Tower right [TS]

  versus like I'm gonna you know go ask [TS]

  some guy is making maps of the [TS]

  thumbnails he can drive me to a giant [TS]

  man haha that's a day though here's the [TS]

  funny thing like I don't know it's 22 [TS]

  inch of conscious but now today your man [TS]

  who collects candles [TS]

  yeah and I think about that all the time [TS]

  at some point along the way I realized [TS]

  and what happened was I realized that [TS]

  citizenship [TS]

  this was the this was the big moment for [TS]

  me that citizenship is an all-in [TS]

  proposition and you see this all the [TS]

  time with with them with young people [TS]

  not just the street punks street punks [TS]

  are on one sort of side of the of of [TS]

  this bell curve street punks all the way [TS]

  up to hippie hippy dippy you know I [TS]

  don't wear leather shoes sort of people [TS]

  people who are trying to they're trying [TS]

  to limit the number of ways in which [TS]

  they are fully vested in their [TS]

  citizenship right they say yes i agree [TS]

  that we should have driver's licenses [TS]

  this is the Tea Party problem right I [TS]

  agree that we should have driver's [TS]

  licenses but i don't agree that I should [TS]

  have to have insurance you know they're [TS]

  trying to they're trying to set their [TS]

  own line somewhere in the sand where [TS]

  they on one side of the line are all the [TS]

  citizenship things that they personally [TS]

  agree to and then on the other side of [TS]

  the liner all these other citizenship [TS]

  things that they feel are [TS]

  you know unnecessary or restrict too [TS]

  restrictive or for whatever reason they [TS]

  they choose not to choose that used to [TS]

  think that they don't have to play and [TS]

  there was a moment for me because I live [TS]

  without ID for many years and I lived in [TS]

  the city and I didn't have ID so i could [TS]

  not go into bars i could not I did not [TS]

  have a bank account when a policeman [TS]

  stopped me I had to explain that I [TS]

  didn't have ID and get it in the [TS]

  inevitable lecture from the guy and they [TS]

  never you know they were they never took [TS]

  me allowed to not have an ID it can be [TS]

  arrested for not presenting [TS]

  identification [TS]

  yeah you can be you're not allowed to [TS]

  but when a cop stops you for something [TS]

  and you don't have ID [TS]

  it's really low on his list of [TS]

  priorities like I'm gonna take this kid [TS]

  to jail for no ID so you get a stern [TS]

  talking-to you need ID it's important [TS]

  you need to go get some identification [TS]

  because I could verify my identity to [TS]

  them it would take us 45 minutes of me [TS]

  explaining who I was and telling my [TS]

  social security number and all this [TS]

  stuff you know like but in the long run [TS]

  i did not have ID because i had drawn [TS]

  the line somewhere on on how much I was [TS]

  willing to participate in in mice in the [TS]

  civilization i was living in and I had [TS]

  this moment where i was watching someone [TS]

  else a person I knew who was you know [TS]

  very much like opposed to the cops and [TS]

  opposed to the laws and opposed to the [TS]

  man and this person you know encountered [TS]

  some difficulties at one point and [TS]

  called the police to come help them and [TS]

  bitched about the police response and [TS]

  then when the police got there they [TS]

  whined to the police and the police were [TS]

  like yeah you're kinda he kind of made [TS]

  your bed in this situation but sure [TS]

  we'll look for the guy that you know [TS]

  stole your weed that did your own right [TS]

  when you call the cops because we got [TS]

  stolen look for the guy that stole your [TS]

  weed exactly and then they leave and [TS]

  this person commences to like talking [TS]

  shit about the cops again and I realized [TS]

  if you're if you are living outside if [TS]

  you want to live outside and of the of [TS]

  the rules if you don't want to follow [TS]

  all the rules then you should then you [TS]

  should also not have any recourse to the [TS]

  benefits you can't call the cops if [TS]

  someone steals your weed and if you sit [TS]

  and talk shit about the cops then don't [TS]

  call them and of course no one is what I [TS]

  mean they're the people that are willing [TS]

  that truly do live outside the world and [TS]

  when somebody beats the shit out of them [TS]

  and steals all their stuff they don't [TS]

  call the cops because they recognize [TS]

  that the cops will never help them [TS]

  they're truly outside the world those [TS]

  people we've lived desperate lives and [TS]

  if you're not willing if you're not [TS]

  going to live at the at the edge of [TS]

  desperation you're really your only [TS]

  other option is to be fully vested as a [TS]

  citizen you need to have if you have a [TS]

  driver's license you need to have [TS]

  insurance if you you know if you are [TS]

  saying I mean so you're saying it's not [TS]

  a buffet in the same way and in the [TS]

  marathon for hours that we cut out of [TS]

  our discussion was before it's not about [TS]

  that you saying you can't come in and [TS]

  pick that this is what I decided to be [TS]

  an atom mentally evangelistic about this [TS]

  is the part that I've decided I is too [TS]

  inconvenient [TS]

  yeah exactly you cannot you cannot [TS]

  refuse to pay your taxes and still drive [TS]

  on the roads and bridges who you know [TS]

  you cannot you cannot say that that we [TS]

  shouldn't that if you don't have chick [TS]

  kids you shouldn't pay taxes for the [TS]

  schools and then walk down the street [TS]

  and complain about the kid about the [TS]

  youth of America when I like the the [TS]

  decisions about about what constitutes [TS]

  full membership in in society those [TS]

  decisions are not being made by one [TS]

  person up above who's like here are the [TS]

  rules you have to follow it that those [TS]

  are decisions that we have made [TS]

  collectively as a group of people over [TS]

  many many many hugs [TS]

  of years and it's like this is just what [TS]

  it's a lot of responsibility to be a [TS]

  fully vested human being and it it [TS]

  requires all this stuff and it isn't to [TS]

  buffet you if you live in the culture [TS]

  you do you have to do all the stuff and [TS]

  you're not a rebel by refusing to do by [TS]

  refusing to do one thing from column a [TS]

  and refusing to do one thing from column [TS]

  B you know it isn't you're not a rebel [TS]

  you're just being a brat you know and [TS]

  and you can if you don't like paying [TS]

  taxes you can absolutely make your case [TS]

  in the public square but you cannot [TS]

  refuse to pay them it isn't an option [TS]

  and you are a brat if you think that it [TS]

  is an option just being a baby so and [TS]

  and I came to that understanding by [TS]

  living with feeds for for a long time [TS]

  living living a not all the way out [TS]

  still attached to home you know not all [TS]

  the way out ware if the cops if some if [TS]

  somebody beat me up [TS]

  I wouldn't call the cops and not only [TS]

  that but the cops would beat me up [TS]

  you know I wasn't living all the way out [TS]

  i was living on the fringe with with [TS]

  with people that were also living on the [TS]

  fringe but but they still sucked off of [TS]

  civilization and I and I found it I [TS]

  found it disgusting [TS]

  ultimately I think you might be lawful [TS]

  neutral from I was not lawful neutral [TS]

  was one of the most interesting [TS]

  alignments because they're you know [TS]

  there's always that you get a lot of [TS]

  lawful good like you're gonna be a [TS]

  paladin you gotta be lawful good i'll be [TS]

  lawful good for Fifi's lot of thieves [TS]

  end up being chaotic good right or what [TS]

  does it do [TS]

  you don't mean like there's always [TS]

  different alignments but I was that [TS]

  lawful neutral was really interesting [TS]

  because it wasn't really a matter of [TS]

  obviously of good of good or evil [TS]

  it was a matter of like you know you [TS]

  know saying I always thought that was [TS]

  very interesting that like themselves [TS]

  like what you're describing is in a [TS]

  weird way even though you are an [TS]

  outsider in many of your ways you're [TS]

  saying that if you take part of the [TS]

  system you take the whole system and [TS]

  that is in some sense the law don't you [TS]

  call it ethics [TS]

  the ethics would be a better word for it [TS]

  but you're saying you you gotta buy into [TS]

  the whole system [TS]

  yeah but that I think that is a lawful [TS]

  neutral revelation that I had within the [TS]

  context of being ultimately chaotic good [TS]

  that's what I always like to think i was [TS]

  chaotic good lot of dickheads our cat [TS]

  good [TS]

  well I maybe I may be vulnerable to that [TS]

  no no I'm talking about my socket i'm [TS]

  talking about myself now at the cake and [TS]

  good is what is the most passive [TS]

  aggressive alignment you could choose to [TS]

  give yourself really don't you think [TS]

  no I think that I think using the word [TS]

  good i think this is this is something [TS]

  this is a very key distinction that [TS]

  people have mistakin the word good for [TS]

  being synonymous with the word nice [TS]

  oh I was just talking about 17 d terms [TS]

  but no an open area but as in life I [TS]

  think a good guy walks around going hey [TS]

  you know I'm a handful but I'm a nice [TS]

  guy [TS]

  no I think I think good i think good is [TS]

  is perhaps one of the most powerful [TS]

  words in the English language like good [TS]

  is not something that you seek good is [TS]

  not nice like good is the pursuit of of [TS]

  capital a capital g get ya what you [TS]

  understand to be truth [TS]

  uh-huh and if you are pursuing good and [TS]

  seeking it it by any means necessary [TS]

  that that is how you get chaotic but but [TS]

  you are chasing after you are chasing [TS]

  after the good huh [TS]

  and that is often very counter to what [TS]

  two nice because in a situation where [TS]

  you are where you aspire to being good [TS]

  you can be in a social situation which [TS]

  we often are where the social currency [TS]

  is one of really compromised ethics you [TS]

  know everybody in the group is getting [TS]

  along great they're all really nice [TS]

  people but you know what they're all [TS]

  kind of liars [TS]

  and that there is a tremendous premium [TS]

  put on just going along with the lie [TS]

  going along with the lie that they're [TS]

  telling themselves going along with the [TS]

  lie that is happening at this party [TS]

  going along with the overall live in his [TS]

  governing our modern culture you know [TS]

  and to be to truly be good [TS]

  you have to stand in that group of [TS]

  people and say no I will not I do not [TS]

  agree with your lie i do not i will not [TS]

  participate in your life passively just [TS]

  in order to make this a happy party or [TS]

  to make everybody feel fine and it's [TS]

  what it's I feel like a lot of times I [TS]

  am accused of being an asshole or being [TS]

  being caustic presence because I in [TS]

  every situation I try and I try and stay [TS]

  the course of what i think is my own [TS]

  ethical responsibility and that is the [TS]

  pursuit of what is good not the pursuit [TS]

  of what is nice but doesn't that beat [TS]

  down [TS]

  it sounds like I i we we don't want to [TS]

  get into one of those things i have to [TS]

  cut out but i'm curious that just [TS]

  because you're you're you're very you're [TS]

  tough on people who are inside of a [TS]

  system and don't adopt the whole system [TS]

  and our what systems are you a hundred [TS]

  percent bought into that you would you [TS]

  accept hundred percent of well that's [TS]

  the thing the system of law that governs [TS]

  our scrap is deeply flawed one so it's [TS]

  also for as many from Alaska you must [TS]

  really realize it is also very [TS]

  contradictory a very potter paradoxical [TS]

  there's there's two very different [TS]

  threads in in our great American history [TS]

  and culture that along the way or keep [TS]

  running into you keep running into each [TS]

  other right [TS]

  the sense of the Wild West and [TS]

  exploration and sense of fair play right [TS]

  and a sense of profit motive of course [TS]

  so there's a lot of things you can [TS]

  account for by picking which one of [TS]

  those directions you think is the good [TS]

  well sure II and recognizing that the [TS]

  good doesn't really like in any one of [TS]

  those directions but those are all that [TS]

  those are all the necessities are they [TS]

  are all yet like you are person you can [TS]

  pursue the good while living within [TS]

  these systems but you can't you know in [TS]

  there and they're absolutely laws that I [TS]

  that I do not deign to follow you know [TS]

  what I mean there i make those choices [TS]

  all the time [TS]

  individual laws that I say in this [TS]

  instance I'm gonna break this law [TS]

  because because I know better and that [TS]

  is kind of the that's where that idea [TS]

  breaks down but but within that within [TS]

  the concept of like up of government and [TS]

  the the way that are the weather Society [TS]

  runs the appeal to Authority the the [TS]

  bureaucracy that keeps the lights on [TS]

  that keeps the that when you flush the [TS]

  toilet it goes away and doesn't just [TS]

  empty out into the garden like all that [TS]

  stuff I take as I take as a whole system [TS]

  and i don't i don't Brooke a lot of like [TS]

  well I don't know I don't pay my share [TS]

  of that because I don't because I [TS]

  disagree with the put with the woman [TS]

  that got appointed to that job or [TS]

  whatever her zooming back [TS]

  yeah I want to be I want to always [TS]

  aspire to make the good choice rather [TS]

  than the expedient choice and that often [TS]

  is in conflict with the law that is a [TS]

  that is a paradox [TS]

  um and you know at two o'clock in the [TS]

  morning and i'm sitting at a red light [TS]

  and I will [TS]

  and I will [TS]

  both directions and there's no car [TS]

  coming I i go through the light it is a [TS]

  choice really [TS]

  thank you for is to join that I [TS]

  routinely make that there are traffic [TS]

  laws that at a certain hour of the day [TS]

  in certain situations traffic laws go [TS]

  from being laws to being suggestions [TS]

  well I think that went to the next level [TS]

  here's the one that I think this is not [TS]

  necessarily a person that I admire but [TS]

  it's someone I kind of admire and that [TS]

  somebody who would say in that instance [TS]

  like arrest me all you want this is just [TS]

  a thing I'm gonna do right which i think [TS]

  is kind of its the maybe not the [TS]

  opposite but it's very very different [TS]

  from somebody saying I you know I hate [TS]

  the police except for when somebody [TS]

  breaks in and steals my figurines or [TS]

  something like that you know i mean [TS]

  there's something interesting and [TS]

  dangerous about the the true like [TS]

  conscientious objector [TS]

  who says you know i'm breaking this law [TS]

  i know i'm breaking this law and I don't [TS]

  even have to give you a reason why and [TS]

  the system it can feel free to just [TS]

  Jimmy up and its gears because that's [TS]

  the decision that I've made I think [TS]

  that's a very interesting and [TS]

  potentially dangerous to society kind of [TS]

  person that I'm not judging that but I'm [TS]

  just saying that's the kind of person [TS]

  everybody's relying on at people to at [TS]

  least hope they don't get caught but if [TS]

  you truly are that kind of somebody with [TS]

  nothing to lose [TS]

  sort of as you were describing it mean [TS]

  that somebody that society has no idea [TS]

  how to deal with ya a it they fill that [TS]

  they feel a kind of monastic role [TS]

  they're the people that that sit [TS]

  indian-style in the public square and [TS]

  poured gasoline on themselves and and [TS]

  immolate themselves to protest the [TS]

  bombing of laos in America of course [TS]

  nobody nobody immolate themselves really [TS]

  that much but the conscientious objector [TS]

  like that is again like I like you're [TS]

  saying I admire them [TS]

  I admire them above all else and it's [TS]

  not always because I I am admire what [TS]

  they what what they're after but but [TS]

  that you know that's nonviolent [TS]

  resistance that's Gandhi that's Martin [TS]

  Luther King [TS]

  it's why I don't admire that the tea [TS]

  party so much because there's a lot of [TS]

  you know there's a lot of talk of [TS]

  violence resistance in that group of [TS]

  people and violent overthrow is a thing [TS]

  that you know when it's time for violent [TS]

  overthrow everybody knows it [TS]

  it's not a thing that you it's not a [TS]

  thing that you sit out in the in your [TS]

  little hot tamale anything like I've [TS]

  always said this about social media that [TS]

  and add that the social media is not [TS]

  what you have to say it's what other [TS]

  people have to say about you and people [TS]

  who are really interested in violence [TS]

  I wonder how interested they are in the [TS]

  violence if they were thinking about it [TS]

  as ten times more violence on them in [TS]

  their family then they have thought of [TS]

  it doesn't matter if you going out with [TS]

  a gun and acting like a big shot like [TS]

  imagine your family getting their [TS]

  throats slit in the night [TS]

  that's violence right violence is not [TS]

  your fantasy from watching cable TV and [TS]

  buying a gun violence is you're [TS]

  completely out of control and there's no [TS]

  one there to help you that's that's [TS]

  violence right and that gets lost on a [TS]

  lot of people but if you're a tea party [TS]

  then i'm going to talk about fast food [TS]

  activism because people asking it known [TS]

  and that's probably a different thing [TS]

  but that's that's that's that's what [TS]

  gets me is just the the pious pneus that [TS]

  people have about the supposed to desire [TS]

  for change that mean that comes down to [TS]

  what they put on twitter but that I i [TS]

  cannot hide the fact that drives me [TS]

  completely insane I don't know how that [TS]

  fits into your world view about about [TS]

  the the the cohesiveness of buying into [TS]

  the system but man when you talk about [TS]

  changing and talk about trying to make [TS]

  something better it's just I don't feel [TS]

  so at odds are certainly lots of cases [TS]

  where that has made a difference but i [TS]

  think by and large it is so cheap in the [TS]

  idea that if you care a lot about [TS]

  something you can see change affected by [TS]

  direct action [TS]

  yeah Kony 2012 but what's that what's [TS]

  that what's that times you know for just [TS]

  a second i got kinda hungry is that [TS]

  you're talking about having chili dog [TS]

  yeah Cody dog honey island I think [TS]

  there's a favorite entertaining dogs [TS]

  yeah i would do give me a Coney dog [TS]

  right now [TS]

  it's a failure of people's imaginations [TS]

  to imagine the worst case scenario [TS]

  personally you know which is something [TS]

  that it that you have done something [TS]

  that I have been my whole life [TS]

  what if my one of my big plan actually [TS]

  worked out how would that go right [TS]

  exactly what i would that really you [TS]

  know like two months later [TS]

  what is that going to look like and you [TS]

  know it's a very popular thing in the [TS]

  popular in the in the youth culture now [TS]

  to think about zombies the little bit [TS]

  war of you against the zombies zombies [TS]

  zombies is once you start thinking about [TS]

  him it's hard to stop thinking about him [TS]

  that's the ministry's I'm a pretty I'm a [TS]

  pretty I like to think I'm a pretty [TS]

  rational person but just even a little [TS]

  bit of exposure to zombies it gets me [TS]

  thinking about zombies you start [TS]

  thinking about zombies I don't love I [TS]

  don't love it but i mean it's it's the [TS]

  kind of thing where I you know I think I [TS]

  think we are you know a lot of people [TS]

  enjoy the occasional apocalypse scenario [TS]

  certainly is a great feature speculative [TS]

  fiction that I've enjoyed but i know i [TS]

  think once you start thinking about [TS]

  zombies boy because they don't care they [TS]

  don't fucking care they're zombies are [TS]

  literally zombies right point and then [TS]

  idea the right there you know and this [TS]

  is again like all of the great matter no [TS]

  sci-fi speculation everyone thought like [TS]

  all the best stuff you know it's a way [TS]

  of telling the story about something you [TS]

  otherwise could not have told a story [TS]

  about not always not always something [TS]

  two spaceships you don't mean but that [TS]

  that's what makes this kind of thing so [TS]

  great in that instance talk about [TS]

  violence where some violence [TS]

  here's somebody that you can't you can't [TS]

  explain things to and and we don't like [TS]

  people that we can't reason with and [TS]

  where we can least try to bring to our [TS]

  point of view but also somebody who's [TS]

  just not even receptive to any plea that [TS]

  you have about why they should not eat [TS]

  your brain [TS]

  yeah that's that's a very troubling idea [TS]

  and that that you know and that they [TS]

  really are just such a simple machine [TS]

  and that's that sounds silly in sci-fi [TS]

  and I guess it is but isn't that [TS]

  ultimately what we fear with something [TS]

  like up like a police state or something [TS]

  I mean like cultural while you're here [TS]

  yeah well we fear we fear like loosely [TS]

  organized violence you know the people [TS]

  that can't be dissuaded that it's a bad [TS]

  idea [TS]

  well it's the fantasy that that suburban [TS]

  whites have about inner-city blacks that [TS]

  they are that you can't reason with them [TS]

  is what everybody should watch the wire [TS]

  that's [TS]

  I'm Sam yeah i know that the cheap like [TS]

  a thing to say but let's not that you're [TS]

  talking about that's you know I i was in [TS]

  my 40s before that really hit me over [TS]

  the head that everybody's corrupted by a [TS]

  system you know i mean it's it's from [TS]

  the first of opening scene of the wire [TS]

  if you watch the DVD with the commentary [TS]

  so what really struck me about it is the [TS]

  guy saying that the wire is ultimately [TS]

  about him the American city [TS]

  yeah ask that wasn't David Simon or [TS]

  whatever that you know in a recent [TS]

  interview they asked him what was your [TS]

  four you know people asking whose [TS]

  favorite character on the wire and he [TS]

  says absolutely the city of Baltimore [TS]

  because it is this living thing and [TS]

  everybody in it is getting fucked up by [TS]

  some system and if you think being a cop [TS]

  is making you any less fucked up by a [TS]

  system in somebody who's selling selling [TS]

  drugs on the corner you have you have no [TS]

  idea how complex this stuff is everybody [TS]

  fucked up by somebody that's why i love [TS]

  it's why I spend so much time down [TS]

  watching the the the container freight [TS]

  being unloaded off the ship and put on [TS]

  trucks i find it very relaxing [TS]

  it's incredible and I I for many years I [TS]

  have gone and parked down and watch the [TS]

  containers come off the ships could put [TS]

  on trucks and drive away or get put on [TS]

  trains and drive away and in in in [TS]

  following we've talked about this before [TS]

  but you know in the process of watching [TS]

  this happen [TS]

  I've been like said where those trucks [TS]

  going and I followed them and I said [TS]

  where those trains going and followed [TS]

  them and I see the route they take out [TS]

  of the city and I see the places that [TS]

  they stopped on the way and in the [TS]

  process of that whole experience I've [TS]

  got just a just the tiniest little [TS]

  thread of how complicated that system of [TS]

  moving goods is around the country and [TS]

  around the world and how everything in [TS]

  my in my room here at some point has [TS]

  arrived as has been has gone into that [TS]

  stream and come out of it and sometimes [TS]

  gone into that stream and come out of [TS]

  multiple times [TS]

  and understanding that that is in some [TS]

  ways you know like whatever you say [TS]

  about capitalism in some ways that is a [TS]

  that is a neutral system you know it is [TS]

  just an organic system its it is like a [TS]

  river [TS]

  um I can't look at anything without [TS]

  thinking about it and the wire has a [TS]

  similar kind of at a certain point you [TS]

  eat the immorality you what you the [TS]

  morality that you brought into watching [TS]

  that show is not the morality that you [TS]

  take out of having watched that show [TS]

  where what was what what is right and [TS]

  what is wrong what is what is ultimately [TS]

  good and what is not good you know our [TS]

  are forever kind of flipped by your [TS]

  experience of like oh wow i thought that [TS]

  guy was the hero and it turns out he's [TS]

  the villain oh well I thought that was [TS]

  the point is that's really helped like [TS]

  coming into it thinking it's gonna be a [TS]

  police procedural or you know cops and [TS]

  robbers story you know some kind and [TS]

  that's true of every aspect of a city [TS]

  you know what I mean like it as an [TS]

  environmentalist you look at trucks and [TS]

  you think trucks are polluted truck [TS]

  drivers are are are Cowboys you know [TS]

  that you talk to people all the time [TS]

  they're like I hate truckers or you know [TS]

  why can't we why can't we make [TS]

  everything run on propane or why you [TS]

  know it's a simple matter to just switch [TS]

  over to solar power what you need [TS]

  there are so many people making value [TS]

  judgments about things and and when that [TS]

  but they have no idea like how [TS]

  complicated this system is how difficult [TS]

  it is to change how entrenched it is [TS]

  first of all but on this but secondly [TS]

  like how massive it is how many people [TS]

  there are how many coaster blenders [TS]

  there are right now being trucked from [TS]

  somewhere to somewhere else for people [TS]

  to make smoothies and and what what all [TS]

  goes into that I mean it it it it [TS]

  boggles the mind you can't read the [TS]

  newspaper without without ultimately [TS]

  every article takes you back to that at [TS]

  a certain point every article in the [TS]

  newspaper takes you back to that dock [TS]

  every article in the newspaper if you if [TS]

  you let your imagination go take you [TS]

  back to the guy who's working at the [TS]

  plant where your pool goes and sits in [TS]

  various pools until the bacteria eat the [TS]

  poo and then they dumped it kind of [TS]

  still little bit pool water like you [TS]

  wouldn't drink it but it's not pool [TS]

  water so bad that they can't just dump [TS]

  it into the ocean it's non-potable it's [TS]

  not potable but it's but once it goes in [TS]

  the ocean the little ocean bacteria eat [TS]

  the remaining poo and then it's then its [TS]

  nature right nature is just basically [TS]

  poo a of different colors and that guy [TS]

  you know that that that that waste [TS]

  treatment plant that no one wants to [TS]

  think about the waste treatment plant [TS]

  nobody wants to think about [TS]

  no one wants to put themselves in a [TS]

  little ship and follow their poo and and [TS]

  yet you know if that system broke down [TS]

  for one hour we would all be up to our [TS]

  necks in poo and protesting and sweet be [TS]

  so mad uh-huh and we'd be refusing to [TS]

  pay our taxes and we would be like this [TS]

  is that this is a and it's just like [TS]

  yeah exactly it's it's it's amazing that [TS]

  that all of our systems all of our [TS]

  little capillaries that the blood keeps [TS]

  flowing in them right and and you know [TS]

  think about you want to hitch a ride to [TS]

  Mount Kilimanjaro and respect that seems [TS]

  based on what you're describing you [TS]

  realize that that sounds a little silly [TS]

  the free radical because she didn't have [TS]

  all the information that you needed well [TS]

  you know I like I think it's like a lot [TS]

  of people who are middle-aged I I know [TS]

  just enough to know what stupid and not [TS]

  enough to know what smart but one thing [TS]

  i know is i think i probably a little [TS]

  bit it's not stupid little short-sighted [TS]

  is the failure to understand that [TS]

  everything in life is an engineering [TS]

  problem and I I honestly this tina we [TS]

  buy I don't know how much we see that I [TS]

  politically but oh I'll just say that I [TS]

  think the biggest common problem [TS]

  and that you know an alien-type refers a [TS]

  civics rather than politics to meet [TS]

  politics is theater to means in civics [TS]

  the idea that there are things you want [TS]

  to improve and you can think about that [TS]

  is government you can think about that [TS]

  is getting potholes fixed you can think [TS]

  about that is trying to get people to [TS]

  stop letting the dog shit in the park [TS]

  what however you want to think about [TS]

  that but it all comes down to one basic [TS]

  problem until you address this problem [TS]

  it's very difficult to get anything done [TS]

  with anything except raw power which [TS]

  most of us don't have and that is the [TS]

  problem that you can't change one factor [TS]

  about anything and all to me when I look [TS]

  at almost all and this is i blame this [TS]

  complete meal is stupid fucking liberal [TS]

  arts education that taught me to realize [TS]

  how things can be wrong when not always [TS]

  figure out how they can be right but i [TS]

  do know is you can't change one thing [TS]

  about anything right I'm not an engineer [TS]

  idea but all I know is that there are [TS]

  several factors that go into a plane [TS]

  staying in the air you can't change one [TS]

  of those factors and if you want to [TS]

  change one factor about anything in your [TS]

  life and you focus very heavily on that [TS]

  and that could be that you're against [TS]

  abortion [TS]

  it could be that you're against dog poop [TS]

  it could be your against trucks [TS]

  it could be that your pro vegetarian [TS]

  shoes it's not good it's not bad it's [TS]

  just life that if you change if you've [TS]

  fetishize one thing they should change [TS]

  without taking into account what else [TS]

  happens you're going to have unexpected [TS]

  consequences there are numerous numerous [TS]

  examples in civics and in nature of all [TS]

  of these things happening all the time [TS]

  and that's what I think that's what [TS]

  drives me crazy [TS]

  I mean how could you ever categorically [TS]

  say everybody should carry a gun [TS]

  how could you categorically say nobody [TS]

  should ever have an abortion [TS]

  how could you categorically say no one [TS]

  should ever let the dogs in the park [TS]

  well I hate dog shit in the park but if [TS]

  somebody's gotta run run run home to go [TS]

  take care of somebody is sick and the [TS]

  doctors shit while they're running that [TS]

  guess that's it might be an edge case [TS]

  all I'm saying is that when that when [TS]

  the political stuff heats up and the [TS]

  civics melts down its frequently because [TS]

  we can't agree on the one thing that we [TS]

  want to change and if we do try to [TS]

  change that one thing we don't account [TS]

  for all the knock-on effects of [TS]

  everything else that gets fucked up [TS]

  because of it right now that's out and I [TS]

  think that's absolutely true and even in [TS]

  your interpersonal or interpersonal [TS]

  experiences 10 times yeah you start to [TS]

  think about like I need to change this [TS]

  about myself I need to really look at [TS]

  this thing about myself you know [TS]

  you can never do that in isolation you [TS]

  can never you can never separate out [TS]

  right [TS]

  the part of you that you want to change [TS]

  make the change and then put it back in [TS]

  if you spend eight hours a day drinking [TS]

  and say I'm gonna quit drinking [TS]

  you're not accounting for the fact that [TS]

  open hours in the day now if that much [TS]

  let's put a fine point on if you say if [TS]

  you if you say to you say to someone in [TS]

  your family [TS]

  I don't see why because I wouldn't want [TS]

  to sync sound like it's this but let's [TS]

  say you say you don't say anything to [TS]

  your wife never talk to your wife that's [TS]

  the biggest engineering problem because [TS]

  i'm a doghouse but think about this [TS]

  think about you finally get the stones [TS]

  to say to somebody like could you please [TS]

  stop chewing with your mouth full [TS]

  something that's what's been driving you [TS]

  crazy for years you know what even if [TS]

  they did that you might have solved the [TS]

  problem you want to solve which is to [TS]

  get them to stop making noise that [TS]

  bugged you would have been easier for [TS]

  you to not mind it but now you've [TS]

  created a much larger problem which is [TS]

  you sound like a dick [TS]

  oh and you might make them self [TS]

  conscious i'm not saying that's good bad [TS]

  or indifferent [TS]

  I'm just saying that's a really fucking [TS]

  simple example if you say truck drivers [TS]

  are bad and we don't truck get trucks [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  how are you gonna get your vegetarian [TS]

  shoes delivered that's right vegetarian [TS]

  choose come on trucks just thinking [TS]

  about something I mean unless unless you [TS]

  unless you've got some way to have like [TS]

  you know a green camel that doesn't poop [TS]

  in the park and and and votes pro you no [TS]

  choice [TS]

  how is that stuff going to happen the [TS]

  system is not as simple and you know [TS]

  what you know why i'm hot about this [TS]

  John because this is exactly the [TS]

  fucktard that I was for like 30 years i [TS]

  really did think it was this simple i [TS]

  thought it was as simple as going in [TS]

  buying a t-shirt with the slogan on it [TS]

  that it probably been produced with tiny [TS]

  little Vietnamese fingers and i bought [TS]

  it in some kind of you know I ordered it [TS]

  online delivered to my house [TS]

  well everybody our generation does they [TS]

  read manufacturing consent or they read [TS]

  howard zinn and they come out of that [TS]

  state councilor go ahead and say come [TS]

  out of the night going to counsel that's [TS]

  fine i don't provoke you and they stared [TS]

  they stand on the in the square of their [TS]

  University and they look at the person [TS]

  standing next to them who is [TS]

  insufficiently enlightened and they go [TS]

  oh my god are you really wearing those [TS]

  leather shoes like do you know but the [TS]

  car that cows produce more methane [TS]

  then a thousand gas generators but not [TS]

  as much as user and you go oh boy here [TS]

  we go [TS]

  you know that that kind of you know that [TS]

  kind of like lamebrain activism [TS]

  all i know is i cannot find a fucking [TS]

  200 watt light bulb to save my life John [TS]

  my vision is dim he my vision is dim and [TS]

  I like a bright fucking room and now I'm [TS]

  walking around with these little these [TS]

  little fusilli light bulbs [TS]

  oh it was just trying to make everybody [TS]

  I don't you start on my pubs all I know [TS]

  is everybody i know it's like they have [TS]

  joined us don't tell me the color [TS]

  temperature is getting better it's not [TS]

  there still heinous [TS]

  yeah and you know what the difference [TS]

  you know what can tell you what the [TS]

  difference between a 100-watt [TS]

  incandescent light bulbs and a 200 why [TS]

  it's not twice it's all the difference [TS]

  in the world it's fucking lightning and [TS]

  a lightning bug 200 watts I can see [TS]

  everything that's happening just say can [TS]

  I just say if RTP and had his to photo [TS]

  taken with the proper lighting he would [TS]

  look a lot better [TS]

  you look a lot like a lot a lot of got [TS]

  one big black shadow and [TS]

  african-american shadow behind him [TS]

  yeah i was a picture meetings on [TS]

  wikipedia org wiki the thing picture of [TS]

  me on there it's like I i'm in texas [TS]

  I've been sweating for four days I [TS]

  haven't taken a shower I looked that's [TS]

  like of all the pictures that could be [TS]

  of me on Weekend oh that's a handsome [TS]

  pressure John oh you know what if you I [TS]

  don't do a lot with Wikipedia and I [TS]

  don't want to get these guys are up but [TS]

  I would be I would be more than happy to [TS]

  public domain a photo of you that i have [TS]

  taken if you would like a different one [TS]

  up i tried i think that'd be much better [TS]

  i think i work through our channels on [TS]

  wikipedia always right [TS]

  oh oh my goodness you know first I think [TS]

  I finally figured it out I figured out a [TS]

  lot of people talked about this you must [TS]

  for I think we might have even while [TS]

  you're 43 check that out [TS]

  yeah I know you don't know that now i [TS]

  thought i was told you no wait a minute [TS]

  i am older than you holy shit [TS]

  a lot of people are there was a story [TS]

  was going around a few weeks ago about a [TS]

  guy who had written a book about the [TS]

  Haymarket rights gives you this story [TS]

  but it's it's a recount in briefs and I [TS]

  could get some aspects of this review [TS]

  and breathe right now I thought you were [TS]

  a boxer you know what I'm where I'm [TS]

  actually wearing pants and where [TS]

  a shirt with a collar that's more than I [TS]

  can say it felt like wearing a shirt [TS]

  with a collar damn i can't tell you why [TS]

  I'm i'm in a bathroom [TS]

  long story short the Haymarket Riot is [TS]

  that the one with the other people got [TS]

  with that somebody threw a bomb and the [TS]

  guys got railroaded is named are all [TS]

  thrown haymarket punches [TS]

  oh that haymakers anyway this guy is one [TS]

  of the biggest authorities on certain [TS]

  aspects of a topic let's just make this [TS]

  a black box he is that he is more of an [TS]

  authority on aspects of this topic than [TS]

  pretty much anybody out there but his [TS]

  edits were all rejected and they [TS]

  basically told him to go away because he [TS]

  wasn't doing at the wikipedia way so [TS]

  even after he went away and wrote a book [TS]

  about it it still wasn't enough and so [TS]

  here's my take on wiki p wikipedia is [TS]

  not an author it's a librarian and [TS]

  that's what people don't understand a [TS]

  librarian does not tell you what the [TS]

  book should say it says that this is [TS]

  what the book says oh I'm just saying [TS]

  now why is there why is there and there [TS]

  seems to be like maybe an aqua likes [TS]

  that somebody through panties that [TS]

  shoots out a bathrobe what's a stream of [TS]

  some kind i am i'm very you know I I [TS]

  can't complain about my fancy behavior [TS]

  because it's because it's a bit because [TS]

  it's de clase or it's a bit bad come [TS]

  should play about but you know other [TS]

  people's other people of my peers [TS]

  songwriters their wikipedia pages have a [TS]

  table of contents and talks about all [TS]

  this stuff combined just feels like a [TS]

  kind of paragraph that someone wrote [TS]

  makes me sad sometimes check out mine i [TS]

  got my friend grant grant took a really [TS]

  good picture for mine who don't press me [TS]

  about the computer that's good not good [TS]

  for you [TS]

  well freaks me out is when I find like [TS]

  somebody's like one of my favorite [TS]

  people in the world and like their [TS]

  wikipedia article is shorter than mine [TS]

  that completely freaks me out [TS]

  you know that happens yeah grandma's [TS]

  real name is grantsburg burning heart [TS]

  what a great name grantsburg I out that [TS]

  sounds made-up grantsburg what a great [TS]

  name [TS]

  how did you get you just on the internet [TS]

  and all of a sudden you're like our [TS]

  grant hart I've got to go look at the [TS]

  Minutemen let's check out the Minuteman [TS]

  know you know it's just kind of a [TS]

  framework for a morning [TS]

  anything it's making fake smart and [TS]

  national dog and I just look at all [TS]

  ok wow I can't get in there huh don't [TS]

  think it really thats bedroom just [TS]

  happened in our recording I really feel [TS]

  like I hope that you keep oh what [TS]

  happened what was I think I can fix it [TS]

  well you just came back you were you [TS]

  were down yeah I think I think I think I [TS]

  slipped into another dimension there [TS]

  it's probably cuz i was we're talking [TS]

  about the Minutemen i thought was really [TS]

  about the Minutemen you got ferret you [TS]

  you actually like what media bwi beat up [TS]

  for a second really like lucky [TS]

  yeah you like to feel exactly from from [TS]

  buck rogers in the 21st century and that [TS]

  Erin gray when she wear that little [TS]

  shiny suit don't talk about Erin gray [TS]

  really got a problem there and gray [TS]

  oh I love and great great derail my [TS]

  whole train of thought [TS]

  yeah and grandchildren whatever happened [TS]

  to see if he's on wikipedia everybody is [TS]

  like Tom Selleck he's out there trying [TS]

  to get work but i'm still it's very [TS]

  conservative is any use of conservative [TS]

  guy but I find I hope she killed her [TS]

  arde i'm going i did a little bit of a [TS]

  research on Tom Selleck the other day [TS]

  and I and I believe that [TS]

  oh this is what I am I had to had to [TS]

  walk away from you for a while you have [TS]

  it off you had a little thing going [TS]

  about Matthew McConaughey for a while [TS]

  too didn't you go ahead can't can't [TS]

  abide it can't abide McConaughey but [TS]

  because it's something like nail for a [TS]

  minute tom so and a bad McConaughey I [TS]

  feel like he although I disagree with [TS]

  his politics i believe that he is just [TS]

  one of those guys he's like if you were [TS]

  dating his daughter he would be your [TS]

  daughter's dad or even your wife's dad [TS]

  that you were like yeah we don't agree [TS]

  on politics but i really love with his [TS]

  politics is just a Republican what name [TS]

  economy I thought he played bongos in [TS]

  his underwear was talking about i was [TS]

  talking about Tom selleck-fronted [TS]

  products Arctic's you could tell what [TS]

  they are they're just fucking stoner [TS]

  politics nothing thought he was a stoner [TS]

  stoner policy whatwhat's that can be a [TS]

  plank in the platform stoner politics [TS]

  Oh to legalize it don't criticize [TS]

  criticize it [TS]

  yeah stoner politics are basically are [TS]

  basically like dude why are you wearing [TS]

  weather [TS]

  she's don't you know the cows produce [TS]

  method all are you being a little [TS]

  reductive and their own a pair of non [TS]

  leather shoes if there's one thing that [TS]

  I think you can you can safely be [TS]

  reductive yes there's that stoners are [TS]

  fucking idiots [TS]

  yeah speaking as someone who was a [TS]

  starter for many years I don't like [TS]

  stoners I just fucking hate hippies now [TS]

  you know what I'm trying to say the word [TS]

  hate I really hate hippies [TS]

  I know you hate hippies I really hate [TS]

  hippies hippies hippies get under my [TS]

  skin the way that almost everything gets [TS]

  under your skin [TS]

  hippies are everything that's wrong with [TS]

  everything yeah hippies are bad [TS]

  mmm stoners as a subset of hippies [TS]

  stories are harmless you did there like [TS]

  zombies you can swim away with one good [TS]

  hit to the head [TS]

  I don't think that they are harmless [TS]

  there are stoners you know still it's [TS]

  like they're stoners it all around you [TS]

  you don't realize i was just John John [TS]

  you know I I don't have a strong [TS]

  position on some of these things as you [TS]

  do in my perception but like there's [TS]

  just too many people smoking pot these [TS]

  days it's gotta stop [TS]

  yeah it's got it's gotta stop you gotta [TS]

  get into something else that's just your [TS]

  your awesome opportunity if you're [TS]

  listening to show you still smoking pot [TS]

  shame on you enough yeah stop smoking [TS]

  pot for God's sake oh my god take a [TS]

  walker make some macaroni there's gotta [TS]

  be something else you can do this for [TS]

  every day really you got to do that [TS]

  everyday first 400 times you smoke pot [TS]

  yeah you're like wow it takes me my [TS]

  sophomore year of college [TS]

  did you see that cat did you see that [TS]

  glad that cat looks like Jerry Lewis man [TS]

  like the first four hundred times you [TS]

  smoke pot it's amazing because you did [TS]

  you see that cat nice did you see that [TS]

  orange oh my god did you see that orange [TS]

  that was totally an orange or 400 times [TS]

  you can get away with did you see that [TS]

  orange oh my god did you see that guy [TS]

  but for before i know this i see green [TS]

  and you see green but how do I know that [TS]

  we're seeing the same green exactly 400 [TS]

  first time it's over and every [TS]

  subsequent time after that it's over [TS]

  they call me they call diminishing [TS]

  returns it is exactly you're not you're [TS]

  not you're not gonna you're not [TS]

  I don't know there are some people like [TS]

  I tell you I there are some people with [TS]

  that pot is the only thing that's [TS]

  keeping them from [TS]

  really fucking weird but i think a lot [TS]

  of people just a fucking weird because [TS]

  of the pot and they kind of like it [TS]

  yeah I mean I up admittedly there are [TS]

  people that are using pot as a medicinal [TS]

  substance and i'm not talking about [TS]

  people with fake glaucoma [TS]

  yeah i'm talking about people that take [TS]

  a little hit of pot every day as an [TS]

  anxiety reliever whatever [TS]

  okay fine i'm not gonna get all up in [TS]

  your boca about it but stoners no bad [TS]

  that stop being stoners always did like [TS]

  swingers or something it's like it's [TS]

  always there [TS]

  it's always there even if they're not [TS]

  swinging the swinging thing is always [TS]

  kind of their maybe that's my hangout [TS]

  which is fine but it's a hang-up I wish [TS]

  everybody had and with the stoners it's [TS]

  just a matter of fucking time before [TS]

  somebody takes out the one hitter and [TS]

  then and then you know what i mean is [TS]

  the inertia then everybody's got to get [TS]

  high and they sit very still right [TS]

  party over and even already silly [TS]

  anything about 1999 and here's the [TS]

  problem now you get in your fifties and [TS]

  you're doing that shit everyday and [TS]

  fleece you know it'sit's not making you [TS]

  interesting i shouldn't say this John I [TS]

  don't like to judge but really so many [TS]

  people need to be charged [TS]

  this is the finger all you have to do is [TS]

  go to Holland and she's literally beg [TS]

  you do not get me started on the Dutch [TS]

  you walk around in holland and you talk [TS]

  to people and you realize nobody know [TS]

  normal people in Holland smoke pot right [TS]

  now really is a true [TS]

  yeah yeah their attitude about it is [TS]

  like alright party that was like being a [TS]

  dick in France I thought it's just what [TS]

  you did [TS]

  oh no not not not at all to its tourists [TS]

  tourists and what I mean the Dutch are [TS]

  very there are they're very quick to say [TS]

  like losers right i mean it [TS]

  pots legal so the so the mystery is gone [TS]

  and so II all they have to do is just [TS]

  see what what happens when you smoke [TS]

  marijuana which is that it makes you a [TS]

  dope and so 99% of the normal like your [TS]

  average dutch person has no there's no [TS]

  mystery about smoking pot and they don't [TS]

  do it [TS]

  they're just like yeah that's just for [TS]

  the that's for the tourist district and [TS]

  that's for like assholes thinking [TS]

  everybody here it says sourdough bread [TS]

  and rice surrounding oh in San Francisco [TS]

  throwing things [TS]

  how often you don't watch him throw fish [TS]

  you know you you're going through and [TS]

  you've got somewhere to go and they're [TS]

  throwing fish and it's actually it helps [TS]

  because the fish throwing collects it [TS]

  collects the detritus people around the [TS]

  fish throwing and you can get started [TS]

  down the stairs and through the market [TS]

  was an attractive nuisance but a good [TS]

  kind [TS]

  yeah yeah I i support the first throwing [TS]

  its it because you know it localizes if [TS]

  you're going to throw if you're gonna [TS]

  throw a hand grenade somewhere who [TS]

  that's where you that's where you would [TS]

  do it but it is a hand grenade throwing [TS]

  demonstration are you talking about a [TS]

  rocky the right think I've been thinking [TS]

  about actually having a little booths [TS]

  down there the market and demonstrating [TS]

  hand grenade some you know my [TS]

  grandfather was a hand grenade is i'm [TS]

  going to write this down and do not want [TS]

  to lose track i don't know if we have [TS]

  time today I would love to discuss some [TS]

  concepts for you having a booth by the [TS]

  fish throwing place but the truth of the [TS]

  market yeah my grandfather was a hand [TS]

  growth and hand grenade throwing [TS]

  instructor in world war one way that [TS]

  people out of three potato masher so [TS]

  that was the Germans had the potato [TS]

  measurement of doing what we have we had [TS]

  animals style and pineapples pineapple [TS]

  hundred is that right yeah he was a hand [TS]

  grenade instructor [TS]

  are you kidding me many went in and then [TS]

  he went and bought in the fund the war [TS]

  where did you go to France you want to [TS]

  frame you got all the words BTW ID have [TS]

  always parts after their training he had [TS]

  all of his parts except for his mind [TS]

  apart [TS]

  yes yeah I'm so sorry [TS]

  no I don't mean to laugh was a PTSD or [TS]

  because he was fucking crazy from hand [TS]

  grenades [TS]

  yeah it was you know at the time they [TS]

  called it shell shock [TS]

  oh you're talking after he came back [TS]

  from France when he came back from [TS]

  friends on sorry I shouldn't have [TS]

  laughed [TS]

  no no it's all right i never met him [TS]

  because he died and i think it's fucking [TS]

  though but he he had a hard time he did [TS]

  not really integrate into the world very [TS]

  well that was not a time when anybody [TS]

  had a lot of sympathy for that and his [TS]

  therapy get behind the plow and start [TS]

  pushing your plow so what he did was he [TS]

  went to Los Angeles and he lived in one [TS]

  of those Bukowski hotels in downtown LA [TS]

  what's the name is Wilson kill i'm [TS]

  getting well so i can but yeah he drank [TS]

  himself to death in a in a flophouse [TS]

  hotel in LA this is this is the problem [TS]

  with innovation and evolution technology [TS]

  John there's a time when you need a hand [TS]

  growing a hand grenade throwing expert [TS]

  and there's the time we don't need it as [TS]

  much [TS]

  yeah that's right you come back to come [TS]

  back to america and you're like I can do [TS]

  this may go [TS]

  mhm don't need those now my dad's best [TS]

  friend back in Ohio was hunting buddies [TS]

  I was a was big in the police department [TS]

  and this is not funny but he died he was [TS]

  he was a fat copyright or you know he [TS]

  was an awesome copy was super he was [TS]

  super cool guy he was a street standard [TS]

  i/o couple well hiya shop I mean I think [TS]

  he's probably at that you know at the at [TS]

  the captain lieutenant colonel come not [TS]

  you know what I mean I don't know what [TS]

  ever it was probably you know his fire [TS]

  anyway he want his job is to teach [TS]

  people how to be safe [TS]

  one of his jobs to do instruction on how [TS]

  to be safe was stuffed with super deadly [TS]

  and at dynamite cap blew up in his [TS]

  fucking hand oh wow yeah and it blew off [TS]

  his fingers [TS]

  yeah well that's ended up with that one [TS]

  of the Shaka brah [TS]

  hang li steals you know when I was and [TS]

  that he had a thumb and pinky and in a [TS]

  minute shaka-brah that's the that's [TS]

  pretty good double horns [TS]

  no not even that not even right no yeah [TS]

  more like Hawaii hang loose [TS]

  yeah yeah that's cool you down horns to [TS]

  be fucking awesome when I was a kid in [TS]

  Alaska there were blasting caps were a [TS]

  were kind of a problem because they were [TS]

  blasting caps lying around [TS]

  apparently and from parades are like I [TS]

  don't know people were I mean there was [TS]

  a lot of there was a lot of dynamite and [TS]

  allows I like clear for us and stuff [TS]

  yeah people were mining gold and they [TS]

  were building track for the railroad and [TS]

  I mean I that the friend of my dad's had [TS]

  a big had one of those big metal lockers [TS]

  in his backyard it was just full of [TS]

  dynamite and I'll are you shitting me [TS]

  just sit around and I mean we had a [TS]

  padlock on it but I was I was a total [TS]

  pyromaniac as a kid I guess I'll see [TS]

  that [TS]

  the railroad had the road head because [TS]

  my dad worked at the railroad the road [TS]

  had all this kind of explore these [TS]

  different kind of explosive warehouses [TS]

  where they were you know blasting rock [TS]

  and stuff and they were and they were [TS]

  blasting rock on the highway the whole [TS]

  time I was growing up anyway so there [TS]

  were posters all over of all color [TS]

  posters i wish i had one now of all the [TS]

  different kinds of blasting caps [TS]

  beautiful on the wiki page right now I'm [TS]

  never level these posters that said like [TS]

  don't play with these these are not [TS]

  don't if you see one of these don't play [TS]

  with it all right like that'll help [TS]

  I know I had this account to post with [TS]

  boobs on and saying don't think about [TS]

  this [TS]

  don't think about it no seriously here's [TS]

  some more i had this blasting cap poster [TS]

  on my wall and that's all I thought [TS]

  about it I just I would walk down the [TS]

  street with my hands clasped behind my [TS]

  back [TS]

  eyes down on the ground just looking for [TS]

  blasting now I wanted to find black [TS]

  pants and I did find these things the [TS]

  railroad had things called torpedoes [TS]

  which were which were little spittle [TS]

  sacks of gunpowder and gravel that you [TS]

  would that you would clamp to the [TS]

  railroad track and when the train ran [TS]

  over it would explode not loud enough to [TS]

  hurt the train or the track but just [TS]

  loud enough to signal the engineer but [TS]

  there was something up ahead on the [TS]

  track so if you hadn't had to get there [TS]

  well if you worked at the railroad oh so [TS]

  your equivalent of a signal is the [TS]

  signal right throw drove on one of those [TS]

  trucks that could get up on the track [TS]

  uh-huh and you would say oh there's a [TS]

  bridge out or oh there's something you [TS]

  know there's a there's something bad up [TS]

  ahead so let's go two miles up the road [TS]

  here it was before radios i guess i [TS]

  don't know why that they didn't just [TS]

  call him on the radio but go two miles [TS]

  up the track you put one of these [TS]

  torpedoes on the track and then the [TS]

  train runs over and bam and the engineer [TS]

  knows to stop the train [TS]

  I don't think I'd like that at all i [TS]

  just even knowing that could happen i [TS]

  don't like that at all [TS]

  well so I I so i did manage to scrounge [TS]

  a couple of these torpedo shit as i was [TS]

  in you know in some some warehouse [TS]

  shared with my dad and a bunch of men [TS]

  and hardhat [TS]

  it's and they all turned around to look [TS]

  at a valve or something I was like a hot [TS]

  40 doesn't look grab stuff the pocket of [TS]

  my jacket with them but the problem with [TS]

  them is that it may require the weight [TS]

  of a locomotive to set them off like you [TS]

  can't hit that with the hammer and get [TS]

  them to explode [TS]

  I mean it means I'm sorry when we talk [TS]

  about a firecracker an m-80 like how [TS]

  much pop oh it's bigger than or maybe [TS]

  you're kidding and you're you're trying [TS]

  to make that pop oh no I wasn't hitting [TS]

  drama safe on it I was an idiot but i [TS]

  don't know i don't like thrown into a [TS]

  campfire and run hide your kidding but [TS]

  that's insane [TS]

  yeah oh my god the things I used to do [TS]

  one of my favorite things I my parents [TS]

  know I think I figured out that i did [TS]

  this and it was a source of much fear [TS]

  but you know what i was home alone in [TS]

  the house I would open up the flu and [TS]

  the fire in the fireplace and I would [TS]

  sit with cans of spray paint and wd40 [TS]

  pilot light you know it light a lighter [TS]

  and spray the wd-40 into the fireplace [TS]

  you're making this incredible [TS]

  flamethrower wd-40 is an amazing flames [TS]

  are who and I would watch the flame come [TS]

  up the stream of wd-40 and right as it [TS]

  got to the nozzle I would stop you know [TS]

  i would let let go the flame would [TS]

  oh are you kidding me and I would sit [TS]

  for hours at a time and just just [TS]

  flamethrower into the into the fireplace [TS]

  and watching the flame come up right to [TS]

  the nozzle and the night stop this came [TS]

  out of places i just loved it the fire [TS]

  of the fire [TS]

  uh-huh right I think that's good [TS]

  [Music] [TS]