Roderick on the Line

Ep. 32: "Incidental Boners"


  hello [TS]

  hang on a second and carry and yes all [TS]

  right hand had a situation when all just [TS]

  I don't think I understand computers [TS]

  anymore than that's alright we can edit [TS]

  all this out [TS]

  I John I can find my plays just fine [TS]

  I'll shaded actually listen to it did [TS]

  you know I was just guessing that's [TS]

  those were the lyrics and that was the [TS]

  time [TS]

  god i wish i had selected way to make [TS]

  sure there's certain things that you [TS]

  never see that I've done is waiting [TS]

  I just wanted you that you can't you see [TS]

  my effort that's all I cared but I no no [TS]

  it's hard it's already a multitrack song [TS]

  nice many hangings i'm not a [TS]

  professional John professional anything [TS]

  it was great [TS]

  don't say that no I really liked it now [TS]

  you didn't [TS]

  yes i did i do singing it I can hear it [TS]

  i can hear it in your voice [TS]

  I can't hear anything in my voice you [TS]

  think you know you didn't tell me it [TS]

  keeps the great it you think you know [TS]

  yeah there with my voice your standards [TS]

  are very very exacting and there's like [TS]

  I wish I could selectively like I think [TS]

  I can i just say i like to think that I [TS]

  could make a dick or poop or Hitler [TS]

  related joke that you would enjoy you [TS]

  know I hope you're close enough that you [TS]

  would tell me if I was not entertaining [TS]

  you with that yeah I don't want you to [TS]

  ever hear anything I've ever recorded [TS]

  pasa its housing is the thing is that [TS]

  that the the first thing to mature as a [TS]

  when we are young artist is our critical [TS]

  sense long before we are good at making [TS]

  a thing we are good at knowing the [TS]

  difference between a good thing and a [TS]

  bad thing [TS]

  who write so that's the that's i think i [TS]

  think i have failed that test on every [TS]

  local don't understand that none [TS]

  most people with towards them as as [TS]

  artists are as creators is that is that [TS]

  they they hone their ability to say like [TS]

  that's a great song that's a terrible [TS]

  song [TS]

  before they never made a song and then [TS]

  so they have that they have that that [TS]

  faculty and then they make their first [TS]

  song and they know that it's not good [TS]

  because they're already critics [TS]

  oh yeah yeah is that it has a different [TS]

  podcast idea but you're absolutely right [TS]

  and it keeps people from doing stuff [TS]

  yeah you start you you develop your [TS]

  appreciation and then and then you hate [TS]

  your own work because you're a new [TS]

  artist you don't know what you're doing [TS]

  yet and then people stopped they stopped [TS]

  making stuff a long time before they [TS]

  have failed enough times to make [TS]

  something good so I love the fact that [TS]

  you continue to fail to make something [TS]

  good Marlon thank you and I appreciate [TS]

  that I just like I said I just I really [TS]

  like to be rewarded for the effort to [TS]

  thank you seriously tonight I i well [TS]

  know let me let me respond i'll just say [TS]

  that my I have a method for that I have [TS]

  employed since about nineteen [TS]

  eighty-seven which is that i have really [TS]

  low standards and very pleased with [TS]

  myself [TS]

  mhm and so you know I i have a sense of [TS]

  things that I like and I don't like and [TS]

  I know when somebody's trying to sound [TS]

  like the Buzzcocks but don't realize [TS]

  they're trying to sound like the [TS]

  Buzzcocks like I'm pretty good at that [TS]

  but I i essentially masturbate for a [TS]

  living and I'm very grateful in the [TS]

  sense that i get to mostly make things [TS]

  that hopefully turn out the way i liked [TS]

  is your company accepting applications [TS]

  well it depends get a little better a [TS]

  little bit about your background [TS]

  I've been masturbating for boy almost 30 [TS]

  years 30 years how many how much of that [TS]

  he done professionally [TS]

  uh-huh well depending i would say [TS]

  probably i've been doing I've been [TS]

  professionally masturbating for 15 years [TS]

  who was also 15 years as an amateur and [TS]

  then there's that pro-am period we call [TS]

  prosumer masturbation prosumer and then [TS]

  and then I you know I think I've been [TS]

  I've been that I've been working at a [TS]

  pretty high level of masturbating a [TS]

  pretty high level for the last 10 years [TS]

  well this is terrific I've just been [TS]

  quickly looking over your resume and it [TS]

  seems like there's been a roll out there [TS]

  was a hockey stick curve if you like [TS]

  haha [TS]

  that's part of my technique the hockey [TS]

  stick curve they called the hat trick [TS]

  even that chick that's another [TS]

  dictionary I can tell you that I think [TS]

  there's I think there's a lot of things [TS]

  that we can talk about here it looks [TS]

  like i don't know it seems like a lot of [TS]

  your masturbation as public as it used [TS]

  to be and that's the dre storing up but [TS]

  we save it save it for somebody special [TS]

  items i'm storing up and when I start [TS]

  back again it's gonna it's gonna be like [TS]

  that sherwin-williams logo you're gonna [TS]

  cover the world over the world [TS]

  oh man I gotta I gotta chase and stuff [TS]

  on the internet oceans of spoon [TS]

  I don't I i am really curious about how [TS]

  much internet com Israel because there's [TS]

  a lot of it seems like it really seems [TS]

  kind of slick stagecraft a lot of it you [TS]

  know when I my first introduction to [TS]

  porn was a boy why don't you talk about [TS]

  porn haha masturbation is one thing but [TS]

  porn you talking about you're talking [TS]

  about come on the internet are you just [TS]

  going two buckets of calm really thats [TS]

  with tk's for bukkake is not lucky [TS]

  bucket is that are detected the foreign [TS]

  at all it seems shy of warehouses a [TS]

  50-gallon drum it's a very rarefied [TS]

  vertical space if you know what I mean [TS]

  ok that's you know and the raider game [TS]

  start [TS]

  I i'm doing a cart here Eric Citizen [TS]

  Kane is just is just discard runs in [TS]

  cartons and cartons of manages bukkake [TS]

  we spelled bukkake wrong and then i'm [TS]

  going to go with bucket with bu ke ki [TS] jockey a cocky bucket with two [TS]

  case how Albright know what bumpy was [TS]

  and now we're talking about God's sake [TS]

  yeah rocky puckett i mean like a bike [TS]

  because i'm actually shedding about any [TS]

  of our listeners if i could say i don't [TS]

  want to give you guys business advice [TS]

  although you know I think it's something [TS]

  John I could help you with bukkake [TS]

  bucket with with 4 case ski 5 case is [TS]

  available last night we were talking [TS]

  about [TS]

  so why is there no why have I never seen [TS]

  a bass guitar shaped like a giant bone [TS]

  seems like a natural thing that somebody [TS]

  would have done years ago a giant you're [TS]

  playing bone the bone base but we went [TS]

  online last night at this we were having [TS]

  a little party and we were like what the [TS]

  bone base [TS]

  come on and i have we couldn't find one [TS]

  anywhere on the internet they think it's [TS]

  like a traditional like a cartoon bone [TS]

  that dog which you on like a bone like [TS]

  if if if Bam Bam from the flintstones [TS]

  was playing bass in a sixties cartoon [TS]

  Archie's style you like my like Anthony [TS]

  I think right why doesn't my Keaveney [TS]

  have a giant bass that looks like a [TS]

  cartoon he's got the money you know he [TS]

  could go to what they call a Lutheran [TS]

  les claypool i dont les claypool ever [TS]

  giant talking about a bum again I'm [TS]

  gonna bump looking up and get a bump a [TS]

  bump the same song get a bad bump it was [TS]

  right at that's me that's when he hires [TS]

  the the homeless guys back [TS]

  ah the bridge [TS]

  well also anyway my introduction to my [TS]

  first introduction to porn and they [TS]

  always come back to the bone and I got a [TS]

  couple questions about that but you're [TS]

  gonna be sorry you ever met someone [TS]

  introduced you to the point please [TS]

  continue [TS]

  passive / overcome is the German phrase [TS]

  uber come so I want to start every [TS]

  aspect of this over [TS]

  besides there's no way this is gonna [TS]

  turn out well I was west cape may see my [TS]

  skype was broken i got a 31 tracks song [TS]

  you don't like and now we're talking [TS]

  about bones owners in the gym bones and [TS]

  his village industries Tracfones I got [TS]

  just bones not a great man see hang on [TS]

  let me check his bone ji ZZ be 0 and z [TS]

  dot com which is bones boom that's the [TS]

  second one bukkake fuckit and jizz bones [TS]

  gonna gobble these up [TS]

  I mean look at Japanese lady well and [TS]

  we'll get our walk in our venture [TS]

  capital 5% you think I won't let you [TS]

  talk about poor let you continue but do [TS]

  you think that we could possibly this is [TS]

  a vertical space that we could have some [TS]

  kind of a penetration with we could get [TS]

  somewhere somewhere deep inside looking [TS]

  for design your own sites with lots of [TS]

  disease and [TS]

  days huh actually actually the thing [TS]

  after all the things we've done in our [TS]

  lives that could be the thing okay i [TS]

  will start an isp called called hmm i'm [TS]

  trying to think this is a change is [TS]

  bucket encourage it you know what bones [TS]

  you know what the thing is i think it [TS]

  writes itself and we could be angel [TS]

  investors we could be i would be really [TS]

  commerce we get in there early you'll be [TS]

  one of those guys like in the early days [TS]

  of the internet where you're just [TS]

  stealing all the you're just you're just [TS]

  sitting on all these great names and [TS]

  then when when the culture turns our way [TS]

  who when the culture finding is that the [TS]

  prominence of bones that we are [TS]

  literally putting out there when it went [TS]

  when the culture arrives as it will one [TS]

  day when the ship of culture docks at [TS]

  the dock of of just buckets which is the [TS]

  great and roiling just filled see he's [TS]

  and all of the all of the the nerds and [TS]

  freaks are like just like it's just [TS]

  buckets and word sitting there on top of [TS]

  all these like ji zzb you [TS]

  kk utes I so much i have to do today and [TS]

  yet i'm gonna probably spend the rest of [TS]

  my day and I'm gonna make a 29th version [TS]

  of that song or I'm gonna spend the rest [TS]

  of today finding combinations of z's and [TS]

  case and evolve coming and boners now [TS]

  John because i want to continue but when [TS]

  I when I when I just now I doesn't [TS]

  really matter exactly why but I have a [TS]

  set up my computer here where when a [TS]

  website doesn't come up it takes me this [TS]

  alternate thing that says hey this just [TS]

  didn't show up and just get an error for [TS]

  what it's worth [TS]

  just for what it's worth i don't know if [TS]

  this is something we obviously want to [TS]

  do angel investments we want to get in [TS]

  early get out early really really [TS]

  withdraw from the entire process as [TS]

  early as possible to use to earn back [TS]

  you know what we have coming and so I [TS]

  just for what it's worth when I went to [TS]

  jail right [TS]

  oh my god i still want to buy this ji [TS]

  zzb 0 nez jizz bones that's bone [TS]

  ok but when I guess I didn't get an [TS]

  error you know it says did you mean [TS]

  jazzbones because apparently in tacoma [TS]

  which i think is near where you are [TS]

  there's a place called jazzbones and I'm [TS]

  just saying you get a bucket that [TS]

  fucking Sherman Williams com pany [TS]

  changing a to an eye and you get jizz [TS]

  bones right into coma coma jazzbones [TS]

  letter man takes an eye off of his [TS]

  letter sweater and changes jazzbones to [TS]

  just bones there's a place i sell my [TS]

  daughter about this because we're [TS]

  learning about letters and reading that [TS]

  i've always been fascinated by places [TS]

  that used to be something else actually [TS]

  I could put my hand to it now but it [TS]

  used to be a website that was all just [TS]

  photographs of things that used to be [TS]

  different things like father's thai food [TS]

  restaurants that are in the old A&W Root [TS]

  Beer drive exactly you can tell what [TS]

  used to be popular by what kind of asian [TS]

  restaurant or dentist isn't it now [TS]

  you're right it's like I was at pizza [TS]

  hut or a urology clinic where there's an [TS]

  international house of pancakes which is [TS]

  a pretty spring the sinker give it a [TS]

  shot ya blue roof like the variance [TS]

  shack and it's it's totally like house [TS]

  of top house of hong there's this chain [TS]

  of not very good restaurants email like [TS]

  diner style restaurants you know you [TS]

  like there's a kind of the seventies and [TS]

  eighties there was places that weren't [TS]

  really a look at Danny's right it wasn't [TS]

  really a diner [TS]

  you know what I mean we're trying to do [TS]

  a family-style restaurant is called the [TS]

  clock restaurant and their hook was that [TS]

  every sign no hang on for this every [TS]

  sign headache clock a literal working [TS]

  clock on it which is kind of cool it's [TS]

  called the clock restaurant clock [TS]

  yeah and down the street from my house [TS]

  one of them went out of business like [TS]

  most of them and some jackals went in [TS]

  there and took the place over they [TS]

  didn't really put a lot of dough into [TS]

  writing new brand equity so they're not [TS]

  there was some black pit plant paint and [TS]

  change it to the oh look [TS]

  haha with an apostrophe like a look [TS]

  exactly it's like as you do it it's an [TS]

  Irish cuisine I imagine they took the [TS]

  sea out we all do lock it wasn't there [TS]

  wasn't you know was an exclamation point [TS]

  or anything just look well you know [TS]

  there's this restaurant down here by [TS]

  boeing field that we that we go to all [TS]

  the time that's it's right next to the [TS]

  Boeing black ops area where they were [TS]

  the engineers are making how do you know [TS]

  airborne space laser that's not [TS]

  very good black ops if you know there's [TS]

  a restaurant next to it a line you know [TS]

  sighs look at that look at the right I [TS]

  know things [TS]

  sure you know yeah from where I live you [TS]

  know I could look down into their black [TS]

  ops area and I see them killing [TS]

  squirrels or whatever they do to make [TS]

  two to fight the Soviets but so this [TS]

  restaurant next door in it and it's one [TS]

  of those places and I think it used to [TS]

  be a Sambo's haha yes I have and then [TS]

  many many years ago a guy named Randy up [TS]

  must've thought it it still has the the [TS]

  orange naugahyde seats and and the [TS]

  ceiling is covered with little with [TS]

  model airplanes of different sizes but [TS]

  at a certain point the Randy's sign he [TS]

  saw you change the sign to say Randy's [TS]

  but then there must have been a a hard [TS]

  wind or something and the the top of the [TS]

  d fell off so now it says ran may's rent [TS]

  is that's kind of weird [TS]

  it's great so that's that no I always [TS]

  had in my head I always thought Sambo's [TS]

  and dennys were exactly the same [TS]

  restaurant except one of them one of [TS]

  them had a racial slur and all and had [TS]

  had a little like Cooley boy riding an [TS]

  elephant that was the boy you know Danny [TS]

  Danny is it a denigrating term for lions [TS]

  you shouldn't say that I don't know [TS]

  that's a no fucking shit means but but [TS]

  shots a defi- de tenis very disparaging [TS]

  to i took the Alliance that it's really [TS]

  it's it's not that now it's not [TS]

  family-friendly four lions they live in [TS]

  dense so i had to help you on that one [TS]

  look at ping-pong usually bones to walk [TS]

  me through it [TS]

  hockey puck in Japan's so i'm watching [TS]

  porn porn i'm in fifth grade sixth grade [TS]

  I don't even know what porn is I haven't [TS]

  you know day he came to this early [TS]

  the only boners i had ever had were like [TS]

  incidental boners because of of corduroy [TS]

  haha but the whistling yeah the butt but [TS]

  so the in Anchorage before there was [TS]

  cable TV there was something called [TS]

  visions which was a you had an antenna [TS]

  on your roof that was shaped like a [TS]

  giant candy corn [TS]

  and you were and everybody in town that [TS]

  had visions pointed their candy corn [TS]

  antenna at the central location where [TS]

  they would broadcast one channel visions [TS]

  was just one extra channel but it had [TS]

  movies and stuff and you can kind of [TS]

  drive through Anchorage and see it was [TS]

  like it was a it was a shorthand like [TS]

  class indicator who had a visions [TS]

  antenna on the top of their house you [TS]

  know they had a little bit of money to [TS]

  spend on more on extra TV and chairman [TS]

  again we have to just stay for the kids [TS]

  that having cable in like the seventies [TS]

  was a if you got it was a big deal and [TS]

  it was expensive if you have HBO and [TS]

  showtime it was a really big deal [TS]

  yeah I was like having a BMW parked in [TS]

  front of your house it was a and this [TS]

  was back when when class and status [TS]

  I think we're more like everything in [TS]

  America right there when we were in high [TS]

  school there were only four kinds of [TS]

  kids there were the rockers they were [TS]

  the preps there were the jocks and there [TS]

  were the losers or whatever you know and [TS]

  now there are 2 450 different kinds of [TS]

  kids are their secret of 74 different [TS]

  permutations of rockers I don't even [TS]

  know how you would be in high school now [TS]

  because you'd be like oh I'm sweetest [TS]

  death metal arms you know Belgian death [TS]

  metal and it's like we don't talk but [TS]

  when we were kids right there's only [TS]

  four different kinds of things and there [TS]

  were only four different ways that you [TS]

  could show you were rich and one of [TS]

  those with you had the other visions and [TS]

  10 on your house anyway we did not have [TS]

  visions but a one point I was clicking [TS]

  through the channels on my dad's old TV [TS]

  which had a this is gonna be very hard [TS]

  for young people to visualize but it had [TS]

  a knob that he turned the channels right [TS]

  it was pre pre-digital to go to through [TS]

  through through 12 or 13 213 and there [TS]

  was a uhf right and click through click [TS]

  click click and uhf was like tuning an [TS]

  AM radio you had like it right well I'm [TS]

  that's exactly what happened here so I [TS]

  was clicking through the channels one [TS]

  time and I got in between two channels [TS]

  and all of a sudden on the screen came [TS]

  this ghostly a like shadowy image of [TS]

  another Channel [TS]

  and you know so we had channels channel [TS]

  4 7 11 and 13 where the oh and 9 i'm [TS]

  sorry no no [TS]

  yeah well whatever there were four [TS]

  channels and then all of a sudden [TS]

  there's this fifth Channel History [TS]

  Channel and I realized very assume that [TS]

  if I turn that turn the knob in between [TS]

  these two channels i was getting visions [TS]

  from some neighbor some wires get [TS]

  crossed or somebody had put too much [TS]

  foil on their windows and it was [TS]

  broadcasting visions into my TV if I [TS]

  satin monkey with the it was a scrambled [TS]

  it was just just this was pre scrambling [TS]

  god they they came up with scrambling [TS]

  like a year and a half later but this is [TS]

  what they were just broadcasting and I [TS]

  obviously they came up with scrambling [TS]

  because people were hijacking the signal [TS]

  this way so then because I heard from [TS]

  kids at school that they had dirty [TS]

  movies on visions late at night I stayed [TS]

  up late to watch my first porno and I [TS]

  could have my dad when he snored you [TS]

  could hear him four blocks away so I [TS]

  knew that I was safe you know he was [TS]

  sleeping i could hear him snoring the [TS]

  other room i snuck down and i turn the [TS]

  TV on and here was this porno movie and [TS]

  I had never seen any of these things [TS]

  before had never seen a penis i had [TS]

  never seen boobs i had never seen the [TS]

  any of this and these people start [TS]

  having sex and they get to the end this [TS]

  is one of these seventies porn movies [TS]

  that was probably shot on 75 millimeter [TS]

  film and it had a plot about a princess [TS]

  who was fighting like some ogres and [TS]

  then there was a pizza delivery guy and [TS]

  then there was that it was Corvette [TS]

  summer starring Mark Hamill there was [TS]

  all these things right there's all this [TS]

  plot but the but the big climactic scene [TS]

  literally the woman starts having an [TS]

  orgasm and they must have rigged up some [TS]

  sort of like landscaping hose some [TS]

  plastic tube that you would use to water [TS]

  your firm's or something [TS]

  hooked it up somehow in a way that my [TS]

  knowledge of anatomy didn't enable me to [TS]

  like fully grasp [TS]

  and she started to have an orgasm and [TS]

  this foam in like shaving cream lotion [TS]

  starts like founding out of her and it [TS]

  was I must have had something to do with [TS]

  the plot of their movie she was a space [TS]

  princess or something and she had this [TS]

  foamy orgasm but to my fifth grade I it [TS]

  was the most horrifying thing I've ever [TS]

  seen because clearly if you had sex with [TS]

  a girl you need a hazmat team to come in [TS]

  afterwards she was like buried up to her [TS]

  ears in this stuff and traumatize me for [TS]

  four years afterwards in fact ever since [TS]

  then every time i have sex with the girl [TS]

  there's a part of me that things is she [TS]

  going two she one of these girls that's [TS]

  going to have the puzzle i got another [TS]

  machine it was it was something that [TS]

  they they rigged up something it was [TS]

  like a rolling stones video like when [TS]

  they're in the tent the other guys in [TS]

  sales similar six and all of a sudden it [TS]

  was like a foam party it was like a [TS]

  beautifu and a so and again it was [TS]

  coming through kind of like grainy so [TS]

  i'm not sure what I was seeing frankly [TS]

  but my back in my life what's the ok so [TS]

  first of all my first thought on that is [TS]

  that they knew exactly what they were [TS]

  doing and they were sending some kind of [TS]

  black ops false porn signal to keep you [TS]

  to keep you off of it like maybe there [TS]

  will be something like maybe another [TS]

  night like a hot dog fell out or [TS]

  something maybe she came paper clips [TS]

  like something maybe I'm saying maybe [TS]

  they deliberately sent you understand [TS]

  the term for this in your industry will [TS]

  cut the size of its a problem but they [TS]

  probably we're sending some kind of a [TS]

  canary trap kinda like fake signal that [TS]

  they knew with scar an entire generation [TS]

  if they were stealing a uhf TV [TS]

  wow I don't know I don't know I you know [TS]

  the whole like you know I don't wanna [TS]

  get too far into the into the lady parts [TS]

  in the in the liquids but just very [TS]

  disturbing me but i don't know i think i [TS]

  think a lot of the people i thought this [TS]

  about sandwiches that sometimes I think [TS]

  the people who make sandwiches have [TS]

  never eaten a sandwich right i think i [TS]

  think sometimes that the people who are [TS]

  going to say let the little that [TS]

  any parts resemble a sandwich oh you [TS]

  have sensed a 9-volt battery because [TS]

  it's like full-blood never heard that [TS]

  comparison [TS]

  no I guess not there's something to say [TS]

  lady and her down to the basement tastes [TS]

  like a 9-volt battery and some people [TS]

  say oh I see what you're saying you know [TS]

  yeah i was turning 30 more just kind of [TS]

  look like a clown roast sandwich on its [TS]

  side you know is that too like a crispy [TS]

  taco I used to think that no this is [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  yeah okay okay my only thought on this [TS]

  is people make ok so then i used to get [TS]

  this a lot of time you go to the grocery [TS]

  store hungry and you get a sandwich and [TS]

  they make a sandwich that is nothing [TS]

  like any food that I ever had in my life [TS]

  there's no intention of ever being eaten [TS]

  like they would never make themselves [TS]

  this fucking holocaust of a sandwich and [TS]

  then run it right people for example you [TS]

  think like okay the people who work at a [TS]

  bank and have lots of money like they [TS]

  could tell they probably never use our [TS]

  own website because it's so unusable and [TS]

  you never in a million years want to [TS]

  even trust that organization i think a [TS]

  lot of people who like make pornography [TS]

  do not even masturbate [TS]

  I think they have some kind of an [TS]

  artistic vision that statistic is that's [TS]

  probably what I should have said an [TS]

  artistic vision because because i want [TS]

  to fuck what why do I need foam coming [TS]

  out now which is an african-american [TS]

  lady occasionally could tell her [TS]

  background like I said it was kind of [TS]

  pixelated she seemed green and orange [TS]

  but in a color TV they could it was a [TS]

  color TV is it could have been it [TS]

  could've been that she was a space [TS]

  princess and green and orange was [TS]

  actually her that was the makeup she was [TS]

  choosing this is the problem today we've [TS]

  got TV shows you a video-on-demand [TS]

  there's so many ways you there's no way [TS]

  you could have gone back to find out why [TS]

  she had shaving cream coming out of her [TS]

  I vagina [TS]

  no although i did recently remember i [TS]

  had a memory of the same era watching a [TS]

  movie called the great Texas dynamite [TS]

  chase the plot of which was that two [TS]

  girls in halter tops and short shorts [TS]

  Daisy Duke shorts hooked up with a with [TS]

  it like a young cowboy and went on a [TS]

  cross-country crime spree where they [TS]

  were using dynamite to blow up banks or [TS]

  something i don't remember but I saw it [TS]

  when I was young and it was at a time [TS]

  when I was a tremendous pyromaniac [TS]

  and all I wanted in life was to have [TS]

  dynamite [TS]

  I thought if I had a box of dynamite [TS]

  that all my problems would be solved i [TS]

  would never be bullied certainly never [TS]

  want for anything again right what can [TS]

  you not get if you have a box of [TS]

  dynamite [TS]

  what's it's a little bit like today like [TS]

  you feel with money you're like if i [TS]

  have money you know what i mean i can [TS]

  buy what I need and I wasn't worried [TS]

  anymore and if you had yes felt like if [TS]

  I had money I would buy dynamite like [TS]

  dynamite was the thing at the top of the [TS]

  like yes money right in order to get [TS]

  dynamite [TS]

  I could I could skip money and go and [TS]

  just have dynamite and i would i would [TS]

  already be this is the area where you [TS]

  would pick up the the things that they [TS]

  put on the railroad tracks to warn [TS]

  people would have this called the show [TS]

  the torpedoes is just around that era [TS]

  same area I i had i had fireworks [TS]

  catalogs you know I was expelled from I [TS]

  was put on emergency suspension in ninth [TS]

  grade who because i had uh I was [TS]

  basically making pipe bombs then selling [TS]

  them to other kids at this haha ah you [TS]

  were like elementary school Tony Stark [TS]

  you're like selling munitions and [TS]

  materials to tell people yeah I'm [TS]

  ordinances that was called ordinance [TS]

  ordinance i was saying i had suggestions [TS]

  like hey you know will be grateful if [TS]

  you tried to flush down the toilet [TS]

  lighted and then flush it down the [TS]

  toilet [TS]

  that would be hilarious you know I was [TS]

  like Olivia pipe bomb sales fit so I had [TS]

  these i was making pipe bombs and of [TS]

  course I didn't know I'd that well first [TS]

  of all there's no safe way to make pipe [TS]

  bombs and I was practicing I knew enough [TS]

  not to like trying to tamp down [TS]

  gunpowder with a metal spoon but but [TS]

  beyond that like I was not handling this [TS]

  material in safeway this material in a [TS]

  safe way and on top of that like I was I [TS]

  was not even trying to be secretive [TS]

  about it I was like get your pipe bar [TS]

  line up you know in high school they're [TS]

  all kinds of creeps and this is before [TS]

  the before Columbine obviously there's a [TS]

  lot more creativity then [TS]

  yeah you could you could there were a [TS]

  lot of the temple there's a template [TS]

  there were a lot of reasons that a [TS]

  ninth-grader might want a pipe bomb [TS]

  other than like hurting his classmates [TS]

  blowing up the school right you take a [TS]

  pipe bomb lot of reasons you might want [TS]

  and I starter a cat a bike [TS]

  sure just like you know just throw it in [TS]

  the woods and watch the trees fall so [TS]

  yeah they put me on emergency suspension [TS]

  I was suspended [TS]

  I would you know there was a clause in [TS]

  the in the Student Handbook that said [TS]

  like you know your first suspension is [TS]

  three days your second suspension is six [TS]

  days and then you're expelled or [TS]

  something but emergency suspension was a [TS]

  thing where you were at your immediate [TS]

  danger to yourself and others and you [TS]

  could be put on in indefinite immediate [TS]

  indefinite suspension like 17 warmer we [TS]

  do [TS]

  yeah yeah and I oh man i was in trouble [TS]

  I had to meet with the police and [TS]

  serious John [TS]

  yeah and my mom was really she was a [TS]

  good sport about it she made me sit at a [TS]

  table in our kitchen for nine days with [TS]

  my books open in front of me and she [TS]

  would she would like come home from work [TS]

  and give surprise inspections and she [TS]

  wanted to see she wanted to see at the [TS]

  end of the day that I had done homework [TS]

  assignments she would should measure the [TS]

  stack with a ruler you know what I mean [TS]

  like I have to do homework assignments [TS]

  co measure it with having the thing is [TS]

  that's that's just pure and punishment [TS]

  there's nothing wrong there's nothing to [TS]

  reform you there [TS]

  it's just that's pure punishments just [TS]

  sit at this table I do not want you to [TS]

  get up i dunno what I do not want to see [TS]

  a comic-book haven't been read [TS]

  I don't want you to have a glass of [TS]

  water sit at this table he you [TS]

  bomb-making angry and sleep [TS]

  f in class earning a little nice great [TS]

  piece of shit don't understand you're [TS]

  obviously your it sounds like your [TS]

  business had been uncovered were you [TS]

  bringing them to school there were you [TS]

  taking orders and delivering them off [TS]

  site so here's the problem i had a [TS]

  locker full of pop I'll see that's a [TS]

  rookie mistake [TS]

  yeah and my mom [TS]

  I my favorite teacher and mentor and [TS]

  ultimately he became the principal of [TS]

  the school is beautiful [TS]

  no this isn't cool things with full this [TS]

  is Don shackelford Don shackelford was [TS]

  the one who like basically he caught [TS]

  wind of me having these pipe bombs i'm [TS]

  not gonna even mentioned it to him and [TS]

  he ratted me out he ratted me out and he [TS]

  stood there while they all the security [TS]

  guards emptied my locker and let me from [TS]

  the school he stood there calling me an [TS]

  asshole like bombs in your locker you [TS]

  brought bombs to school you asshole and [TS]

  I I felt really betrayed who until you [TS]

  know that is on your side [TS]

  I did I was like done jack afraid you're [TS]

  my guy he's like that with the knot with [TS]

  not when it comes to bombs and then I [TS]

  realized of course he was he he was [TS]

  absolutely right when you realize that [TS]

  like just now you don't blame [TS]

  shackelford anymore i'm still a little [TS]

  mad it's still it's a little bit of a [TS]

  betrayal but I I feel like he probably [TS]

  did the right thing is probably health [TS]

  and safety issues like a let me kids [TS]

  have to some kids have allergies to like [TS]

  like milk and shrimp maybe there was you [TS]

  know just concerned no I'm saying I [TS]

  think he wasn't worried that I was so [TS]

  dangerous as much as I was like selling [TS]

  these things so my mom would say that my [TS]

  mom would say about the reason that you [TS]

  can't leave the house is that it's not [TS]

  you know it's not you that I'm worried [TS]

  about is the rapist in the woods and I'm [TS]

  worried about or whatever or driving [TS]

  that my words not hers but she said you [TS]

  know try i'm not worried about you [TS]

  driving i'm worried about the other [TS]

  people which i think i think she meant [TS]

  and believed and I often think that same [TS]

  thing that's how i feel about these [TS]

  fucking people on the bikes with the [TS]

  stop signs you know what I mean it's [TS]

  like that you know they're they're [TS]

  causing tremendous chaos for people i [TS]

  don't know why they do it and I keep [TS]

  thinking you know this is my theory on [TS]

  this where I'm coming to with this is [TS]

  talking about bicycles who are riding in [TS]

  the street like cars but when they come [TS]

  to stop signs then suddenly they turn [TS]

  into magic bikes that don't have to obey [TS]

  laws [TS]

  oh absolutely well there are some there [TS]

  are some people will say you know it's [TS]

  it's a thing i'm sure you've seen it [TS]

  there I'm no you see important but you [TS]

  know it's thing to just bust through [TS]

  stop signs when you're on a bike because [TS]

  I guess this is the special thing you [TS]

  get to do so [TS]

  there are some people like skateboarders [TS]

  who are really good at it and days they [TS]

  know to at least like turn their head [TS]

  slightly to the left and the right to [TS]

  see if they're about to hit anything but [TS]

  there are you something on the car hit [TS]

  you when you're on a skateboard you [TS]

  really notice it i would say next to [TS]

  maybe like a raccoon or a taco bell [TS]

  rapper you're gonna lose to almost [TS]

  everything went on a bike know your yeah [TS]

  right you're definitely gonna lose to a [TS]

  raccoon to you know what you're right [TS]

  they got those claws and they're very [TS]

  very so you know what i should start [TS]

  over [TS]

  this is so so anyway I'm sure I'm going [TS]

  with this might move up my thought is [TS]

  here's the problem i call this the 2's [TS]

  whole theory and there's one asshole [TS]

  will probably be fine right [TS]

  if one person blows through a stop sign [TS]

  like a fucking sociopath endangering my [TS]

  in my child's life [TS]

  not that I'm angry a bike that's a [TS]

  problem because i'm looking for them [TS]

  right right questions like these folks [TS]

  are super entitled about this and then [TS]

  go you know what to do with corn but [TS]

  yeah well but i like I got a car and I [TS]

  can't see you and you know and I'm [TS]

  looking around for the other assholes [TS]

  and then you fucking blow through a stop [TS]

  sign [TS]

  now my thing is or you know cars [TS]

  obviously car through this to anybody he [TS]

  blows through stop signs and stop lights [TS]

  it's like people who don't stop for [TS]

  ambulances like they should just be put [TS]

  somewhere you always pull over for if [TS]

  you like a gentleman you fucking pull [TS]

  your car over and you sit there you [TS]

  don't get mad you started fucking [TS]

  national anthem and you wait until [TS]

  somebody goes and gets the goddamn life [TS]

  saved [TS]

  yeah it's a gentleman it's a gentleman [TS]

  issue here's the thing what if to it and [TS]

  here's my thing this is actually i have [TS]

  seen literally I setting aside shaving [TS]

  cream coming out of a lady on TV I would [TS]

  have seen my biggest fantasy is for like [TS]

  four bicycles to do that at the same [TS]

  intersection at the same time to make [TS]

  some kind of like you still have myself [TS]

  you know it's all going to be like [TS]

  ironic mustaches and fixes everywhere [TS]

  messenger bags flying through the air [TS]

  think they have history ambulances maybe [TS]

  now you can they come out thinking in [TS]

  Brooklyn they have those acidic [TS]

  ambulances now that little house at work [TS]

  but they're less expensive or how does [TS]

  that work [TS]

  no not at all the the so the the Hasidic [TS]

  Jewish community and in New York Hendrix [TS]

  very tight very tight very close [TS]

  community day and they have their own [TS]

  ambulance service and their own like [TS]

  special Hasidic police who [TS]

  so if you have a crime committed against [TS]

  you [TS]

  you don't call the regular cops in here [TS]

  is so making this is such a Saturday [TS]

  Night Live sketch absolutely not google [TS]

  it or or or opinions or whatever I'm [TS]

  doing it yesterday with instead of us [TS]

  instead of sirens it just goes boom [TS]

  no yeah what are you gonna do what are [TS]

  you gonna do [TS]

  yeah 3 also seriously and so but it's a [TS]

  standard emt style set up a general they [TS]

  were in the garb are the EMTs wearing [TS]

  the garb absolutely except on the sides [TS]

  of the ambulances instead of ambulance [TS]

  it says ambulance in Hebrew I'll see [TS]

  that so that's not smart [TS]

  well i guess my question has always been [TS]

  if one of those is driving down the [TS]

  street not on its way to somewhere there [TS]

  just like coming back or something and [TS]

  they see me have a heart attack and [TS]

  they're just driving by eating a [TS]

  pastrami sandwich or whatever are they [TS]

  going to pull over or do I have to tell [TS]

  you what your money will be in a car [TS]

  when this happens [TS]

  no let's say I'm walking down the street [TS]

  in Vienna and they're stopped at a [TS]

  stoplight and i'm walking right in front [TS]

  of them and I go all [TS]

  yeah and i have a heart attack you get [TS]

  hit by hits turnpike let's say I'm [TS]

  walking across the street in brooklyn [TS]

  and it's a four-way stop and for [TS]

  hipsters collide and I get hit with a [TS]

  crank from one of their demolished [TS]

  bicycles is the Jewish ambulance going [TS]

  to help me or like do they have a sworn [TS]

  to the Hippocratic oath or have the I [TS]

  know that that's what do you think [TS]

  that's that's great that's totally [TS]

  different thing that's a new testament [TS]

  here's the thing here's what you need to [TS]

  understand is that there is there is a [TS]

  law about all of this [TS]

  somewhere in a book ok good Samaritan [TS]

  Law that's again the New Testament but [TS]

  but here's the thing is like first of [TS]

  all maybe they would want to be sure [TS]

  that you're not had that you don't have [TS]

  dairy you know and meet online at the [TS]

  same time that's one thing i think i [TS]

  think they would only use a separate set [TS]

  of plates into separate have a separate [TS]

  amulets if they have one ambulance for [TS]

  me and the other for dairy I think up [TS]

  right and have a separate structures for [TS]

  if I get hit if I get hit with a crank [TS]

  from adam from a demolished hipster [TS]

  bicycle and my dairy is separated from [TS]

  my meat [TS]

  haha you should be you should be on the [TS]

  visions I think their dairy in your meat [TS]

  I don't think I want to be safe okay [TS]

  quick concept to see dick acetic porn [TS]

  nevermind I'm just saying I'm just [TS]

  saying that Darien meet you know there [TS]

  is I think porn there's a whole subset [TS]

  of porn now about a like quote-unquote [TS]

  Arab women wearing how big a job I've [TS]

  seen that [TS]

  yeah actually also seen any ladies with [TS]

  the dots oh yeah well that's sexy you [TS]

  like the dot [TS]

  what's that and i've got i have got kind [TS]

  of thing I don't know I you know you're [TS]

  taken which means I didn't sleep ledge [TS]

  what it's like it when the Amish paint [TS]

  the door red it means that you know they [TS]

  have a they have a marriage able [TS]

  daughter what I thought they weren't [TS]

  allowed to use red [TS]

  well there's a whole there's a whole [TS]

  code of what color door what color your [TS]

  front door is in amish culture that [TS]

  indicates to passersby whether you have [TS]

  where your daughters are portable your [TS]

  entire means of ingress and egress is [TS]

  based on on who-who should marry your [TS]

  daughter and what you think our value [TS]

  proposition is you get a door you change [TS]

  your door [TS]

  based on her status I think that's true [TS]

  i think you maybe it's a blue door [TS]

  something like that that must be a big [TS]

  day the your daughter gets to be 14 15 [TS]

  you know maybe by a button not paint the [TS]

  door he wore you know you go you go to [TS]

  how much home depot and get a get a new [TS]

  door i think i think you keep the old [TS]

  door but you painted ok but as far as [TS]

  like sherwin-williams paint [TS]

  yeah that's right they cover the world [TS]

  knowing that i'm sure they make their [TS]

  own pain out of pigments that they grow [TS]

  themselves you don't think that's [TS]

  practical at all [TS]

  ah I thought that was that there was a [TS]

  conceited the English the color [TS]

  yeah i think a lot of coloring buttons [TS]

  well they can play they were blue and [TS]

  and lavender never talk about the time I [TS]

  was on a train up in northern North [TS]

  Dakota and every time the train stopped [TS]

  at this was an Amtrak train on a freight [TS]

  train every time the train stopped all [TS]

  these Mennonites would get on and they [TS]

  were all wearing like a laugh [TS]

  under and peach not peach what am I [TS]

  trying to say lavender and like the [TS]

  shades of kind of green and blue that [TS]

  were like we're still like easy easter a [TS]

  kind of patients [TS]

  yeah yeah and they get they all get on [TS]

  the train in one little tiny North [TS]

  Dakota town and they would write it 2 [TS]

  stops to some other little tiny North [TS]

  Dakota and they all get off the train [TS]

  and some different Mennonites would get [TS]

  on and and I realized that Amtrak is [TS]

  running this like men and I taxi service [TS]

  across the Northern Plains that's the [TS]

  only way they get between these that [TS]

  there are different villages and i'm [TS]

  sure they're putting their marital [TS]

  daughters on these trends and sending [TS]

  them to villages up to figure out like a [TS]

  hanky code which I figure with the [TS]

  college meant no but it's the same i [TS]

  think it is a hanky code here and I [TS]

  think that's what to do that lavender [TS]

  probably means something to you wear [TS]

  like the standard garb [TS]

  it's just that it's in what would [TS]

  normally in like Pennsylvania might be [TS]

  considered kind of a garish yeah that's [TS]

  it but it says like karma taker i'm a [TS]

  giver or whatever right there that's not [TS]

  for stuff like you're into they've got a [TS]

  whole hanky code is very complicated i [TS]

  read about it once it was I had to put [TS]

  it away it was just too much i want to [TS]

  be peed on I want to know if you put in [TS]

  the wrong pocket that gets everything [TS]

  wrong because then you you you you send [TS]

  the wrong message [TS]

  you see what you're really saying is you [TS]

  might be saying that you want to be you [TS]

  want to be the right or not the lady [TS]

  horse if you put that in the right and [TS]

  the wrong pocket you end up there you [TS]

  know there actually was a while in the [TS]

  nineties when I would walk around [TS]

  Capitol Hill Seattle's game neighborhood [TS]

  with a with an assortment of hankies in [TS]

  my back pocket just to scramble the [TS]

  airwaves with off all put a green hanky [TS]

  in my back right pocket not knowing what [TS]

  i meant he didn't research at all not [TS]

  knowing what it symbolized just knowing [TS]

  that it meant something and then I would [TS]

  walk down i had walk around Capitol Hill [TS]

  it means your mucus sending this [TS]

  presenting this message and you know i [TS]

  don't i was just I was just it was just [TS]

  party like culture jamming yeah yeah why [TS]

  you must digital people ever talk to you [TS]

  about it because I think when you do the [TS]

  hankie thing there's a couple messages [TS]

  for the second message is that you know [TS]

  I like blood pit play or poop or lady [TS]

  horses but i think the first messages [TS]

  it's okay for you to come [TS]

  talk to me about this right it's like [TS]

  you know it's like San Francisco's [TS]

  people walking around with two large [TS]

  dogs and they're all mad when you asked [TS]

  about him right now we're talking [TS]

  ridiculous i have two huge Afghans but [TS]

  please don't stop and talk to me about [TS]

  it that's right well but the thing is [TS]

  that means i have five cormorant there's [TS]

  a line around Capitol Hill with a [TS]

  handkerchief in my back pocket is I [TS]

  didn't never stop and slow down but [TS]

  don't you think people have questions so [TS]

  i think they wanted to buy your heart [TS]

  and I was I was like I was like a I was [TS]

  like a blue Angel just coming right down [TS]

  over the over the surface of the lake [TS]

  and just straight strafing the case just [TS]

  straight for them and they'd be like [TS]

  what he did you see him he's into these [TS]

  interview because he wants to be with [TS]

  you fancy lady horse but I think about [TS]

  two blocks away even just completely [TS]

  like immune people completely ignorant [TS]

  of what I had just done you're stirring [TS]

  a pot my friend mom please do i I i had [TS]

  i think we had weird cable by the time i [TS]

  had cable i think i was getting very [TS]

  mature as an industry but my friend had [TS]

  the cable we get the scrambling minutes [TS]

  it's really weird because there's also [TS]

  weird i don't know this is a gay thing [TS]

  I've never thought of it this way but [TS]

  there is kind of thing about watching [TS]

  porn with your friends [TS]

  the in retrospect is kind of weird that [TS]

  seems to me that that should be a that [TS]

  should be you should do that in your [TS]

  Garret well the thing about teenage boys [TS]

  and gayness is that i think i think that [TS]

  the culture i wish the culture when we [TS]

  were teens was more accepting of a [TS]

  little bit more gayness than it was [TS]

  extended then it allowed for like it [TS]

  like that like penis game is sore or one [TS]

  like what kind of gayness [TS]

  well I don't know I feel like when I was [TS]

  about 13 14 [TS]

  I there was there was a window of [TS]

  gayness that i wish i had i wish i had [TS]

  gone i wish i had sat on the the ledge [TS]

  of the sill case of gay i wish i had sat [TS]

  on the sill of gay a little bit with my [TS]

  feet dangling out [TS]

  little bit longer than I did and I was [TS]

  it was absolutely because like now you [TS]

  know I get the feeling that that if you [TS]

  were a teenager and you are sitting [TS]

  around with your friends watching porn [TS]

  and somebody says something kind of gay [TS]

  that you might be a little bit more [TS]

  accepting of it in in the in the in the [TS]

  in the full flush of that moment and at [TS]

  the time when I was a teenager you [TS]

  should you have had to maintain a [TS]

  rigourous rigorous separation you got to [TS]

  say disparaging things about the people [TS]

  yeah oh this is gross that why are we [TS]

  even watching this yeah or that you'll [TS]

  see that's what i would do but I think [TS]

  also you could talk about you know you [TS]

  could remark about how you like that [TS]

  ladies bosom or you could remark about [TS]

  how that person is not as attractive as [TS]

  you would like you get you could remark [TS]

  that that's not the kind of tool belt [TS]

  that cable guy would actually wear em [TS]

  you can point out you know I don't know [TS]

  if I knew that much about tool belts but [TS]

  I was always changing the subject [TS]

  moments like that always changing the [TS]

  subject but i look back i look back at [TS]

  that time I think I can think of a [TS]

  couple of a couple of specific episodes [TS]

  where there was where I was a [TS]

  thirteen-year-old and there was another [TS]

  13 year old and he he said something [TS]

  like what [TS]

  after school we would be like playing [TS]

  stickball or whatever it is the kids do [TS]

  I don't remember being a kid but but we [TS]

  are but he would he would insult me in [TS]

  such a way that we would start wrestling [TS]

  i would grab him and then we'd be [TS]

  wrestling and you're 13 it's like what [TS]

  are you wrestling about you're not [TS]

  really wrestling [TS]

  oh I think I know what you mean yeah he [TS]

  was taunting me but he was taunting me [TS]

  because he wanted to wrestle [TS]

  mhm and then I was like I'll get you and [TS]

  then we're wrestling and it's kind of [TS]

  like work we're all tangled up with each [TS]

  other in a kind of wrestle e-ring and [TS]

  and you want to say and I look back at [TS]

  those I'm like oh we were being we were [TS]

  we were experimenting we were being gay [TS]

  with each other [TS]

  and if we had just had a lift we had a [TS]

  little bit more freedom in those moments [TS]

  we would have been able to just be like [TS]

  just full-on gay about it is it seems [TS]

  like a fall somewhere between ballroom [TS]

  dancing and spitballs and obviously [TS]

  dancing is an opportunity to be very [TS]

  very close to a woman in a way that [TS]

  would hopefully not be very threatening [TS]

  to her usual you know you both get to [TS]

  have this public thing if you think [TS]

  about dancing is pretty crazy i close [TS]

  the tray put your arm around her [TS]

  oh my gosh I remember I remember just [TS]

  finding it so disorienting but like [TS]

  think about dancing like it's pretty [TS]

  intimate to dance clothes dance with [TS]

  somebody putting a spit balls in your [TS]

  little bit younger [TS]

  you wanna get a girl's attention you [TS]

  throw things out and that becomes [TS]

  acceptable kind of form of intercourse [TS]

  it's the throw things at a lady or a [TS]

  different pigtails in your inkwell [TS]

  precisely and then you get you get hit [TS]

  with the ruler where the Hickory stick [TS]

  yeah with the hickory smoked the Hickory [TS]

  stick that's pretty that's probably you [TS]

  know there's probably a handkerchief for [TS]

  that is by hickory handkerchief [TS]

  okay i think i think that at my fear at [TS]

  the time was that if you went too far if [TS]

  you went too far like with your your if [TS]

  wrestling turned to frottage and you [TS]

  went too far and UX and you exhibited [TS]

  like actual sexual interest in another [TS]

  boy even though that's clearly what he [TS]

  was doing even that's that's clearly [TS]

  what you were both doing but if you went [TS]

  too far [TS]

  you could never go back you would have [TS]

  it in your mind that you had done that [TS]

  you were a perv or the you were gay [TS]

  right uue it would flip a switch and [TS]

  once you have done it you could not you [TS]

  could never take it back right this was [TS]

  the proper this was the idea that i [TS]

  think the only a homosexual rubicon yeah [TS]

  right exactly all the all the boys carry [TS]

  this in their head that there that the [TS]

  the if you cross this line then you're [TS]

  in trouble and now as a as a fully grown [TS]

  person I realized oh no you can cross [TS]

  that line freely it is not a Rubicon it [TS]

  is not even really a guarded border it's [TS]

  just a it's just a path lot of freshers [TS]

  edge a lot of pressure there is there is [TS]

  will even now I mean even now there's a [TS]

  lot of pressure on guys to not be game I [TS]

  even with this term down low [TS]

  oh absolutely it's that's how African [TS]

  America [TS]

  and get to suck each other's cocks it [TS]

  really true is it really a thing or is [TS]

  it like an urban myth [TS]

  no it's absolutely so i I don't I mean I [TS]

  heard about this a while back and I [TS]

  don't know but supposedly it's a you [TS]

  tell me we tell me that hurts phenomenon [TS]

  where it's believed that amongst some [TS]

  man I AG led to believe african-american [TS]

  men that like if you're getting your [TS]

  dick sucked you're not gay right [TS]

  absolutely second fact in fact that's [TS]

  the source of my mind of a man by [TS]

  another man right it's the source of one [TS]

  of the long winters is favorite means [TS]

  from the early days which was [TS]

  look I'm not gay I just can't keep these [TS]

  faggots from sucking my cock that were [TS]

  there was a there was there was a I'm [TS]

  sorry [TS]

  you know you got quote comedy things but [TS]

  there is a headline in the onion that [TS]

  long time ago that I every time I think [TS]

  of it I still with which its why do all [TS]

  of these helmets sexuals keep sucking my [TS]

  cock i think it's i think it's all [TS]

  probably like a bill hicks routine reels [TS]

  all these fucking faggots a tiny in [TS]

  bathrooms constantly want to suck my [TS]

  cock it seems like i can't go more than [TS]

  a couple hours standing in a bathroom [TS]

  for two hours until some fat comes up [TS]

  and wants to suck my cock and I I hate [TS]

  these guys [TS]

  yeah well I think it's actually that [TS]

  that kind of down low [TS]

  that phrase is very much in the American [TS]

  black culture but i think it's i think [TS]

  that attitude provides in in Arab [TS]

  cultures like men are able to be [TS]

  physically affectionate with each other [TS]

  up all the way up to and including sex [TS]

  with each other and it's much more it's [TS]

  much it's thought of as a kind of [TS]

  fraternal bond and much less of an of an [TS]

  aberration you know and that's pal they [TS]

  keep the peace in the streets but wonder [TS]

  how many african-american men that are [TS]

  comfortable another man not gay suck [TS]

  your cock would be comfortable like [TS]

  sitting around naked in a hot tub it's [TS]

  not nearly as intimate but it's much [TS]

  more gay seeming probably in that [TS]

  culture you know I don't know you know [TS]

  there are also a lot of I mean I I think [TS]

  downloads of is a as i looked it up on [TS]

  wikipedia it's necessarily a documented [TS]

  ok part of the competition [TS]

  down low is an african american slang [TS]

  term for first-rate subculture men who [TS]

  usually identifies heterosexual but who [TS]

  have sex with men [TS]

  that's the short description they often [TS]

  avoid sharing this information with [TS]

  female sexual partner so it seems like a [TS]

  terrible idea [TS]

  yeah I understand why you wouldn't want [TS]

  to share that but yeah I mean it seems [TS]

  like a good idea at the time but you [TS]

  know there's also the the the sort of [TS]

  the understanding about an [TS]

  african-american culture that that kinda [TS]

  lingus is kind of not in front and also [TS]

  the blacks can't swim [TS]

  haha really scared of water because i [TS]

  did that did that does go ping pong get [TS]

  me what silver finger fucking you know [TS]

  You Know Who I people were talking like [TS]

  this [TS]

  what is the deal with swimming [TS]

  I keep thinking about your angry angry [TS]

  still have come from what is the do they [TS]

  but me and talk about [TS]

  compartmentalization it you know it's in [TS]

  there you know after this goes straight [TS]

  back to your point that I guess that [TS]

  there shouldn't be [TS]

  just because you're having oral sex as a [TS]

  recipient [TS]

  I mean that Kenny I guess in the top [TS]

  bottom thing that makes you look at a [TS]

  tapas person right you're the receiver a [TS]

  pleasure is that the idea you're the one [TS]

  is running the show you know this is a [TS]

  this you bring up a very interesting [TS]

  question i have never fully understood [TS]

  the blowjob politics of the of the gays [TS]

  because there's definitely like giver [TS]

  and Taker of the the buttsex it's not [TS]

  it's not like doing dishes they don't [TS]

  just need to alternate you know trying [TS]

  to assume that that's true but but but [TS]

  I'd see this is the thing I in [TS]

  heterosexual sex for a thousand years at [TS]

  least at least when I was a when I was a [TS]

  kid the thousand years at least 24 the [TS]

  thousand years that I've been on this [TS]

  planet undying never aging like sex [TS]

  seemed like it was yeah i was just sort [TS]

  of like that happen the in the [TS]

  handmaid's tale it happened through a [TS]

  hole in a sheet and you never saw the [TS]

  other person and you exchange [TS]

  no kind words with them it was strictly [TS]

  like a missionary position type of thing [TS]

  but you introduce the you introduce an [TS]

  awareness of dominance and Submission [TS]

  into it right if you if you're unaware [TS]

  of dominance and submission or at least [TS]

  like if you are if you're not up front [TS]

  about it you're having all this [TS]

  dominance and Submission play but your [TS]

  baby but you're not you're not it's not [TS]

  over [TS]

  right but as soon as everybody knows [TS]

  that those are things that are in play [TS]

  insects like are you dominant are you [TS]

  dominating me right now my being [TS]

  submitted my doing it for am i doing it [TS]

  for fun or am i doing it because I'm [TS]

  really submissive like to you and I have [TS]

  only have sex where your dominant and [TS]

  submissive over to the roles change can [TS]

  we in warning about like legit strictly [TS]

  kinky sex her and like and like normal [TS]

  girls that's the thing like it used to [TS]

  be kinky to even use the words dominant [TS]

  and submissive what you're talking about [TS]

  you're talking about like you young [TS]

  couples having having gleeful sex in a [TS]

  meadow or even normal even normal like [TS]

  old Valerie the ls exactly see ok where [TS]

  where it's like all right when i was 21 [TS]

  i would never have used the word [TS]

  dominant or submissive sounds a little [TS]

  gay tell ok it sounds well or it sounds [TS]

  just like yeah little bit aggressive at [TS]

  least a little tweaky right but as you [TS]

  get older and you realize like right in [TS]

  every in in in every let's say you're [TS]

  having sex with somebody for 45 minutes [TS]

  I can currently 45 minutes from start to [TS]

  finish it by 45 contiguous minutes it's [TS]

  not over series of months [TS]

  no okay 45 minutes but it that could [TS]

  include drinks and dinner and apologies [TS]

  and apologies afterwards in mic in my [TS]

  case 45 minutes is just enough time [TS]

  because i like to take the panties off [TS]

  very slowly it starts the clock starts [TS]

  running when i touch the panties panties [TS]

  at the ankles 45 minutes later in any [TS]

  case the idea of like okay in this [TS]

  45-minute period we are you're going to [TS]

  dominate you're going to be dominant for [TS]

  a little bit i'm going to be dominant [TS]

  we're going to flip back and forth [TS]

  ultimately I'm going to be [TS]

  more dominant mean these are ideas that [TS]

  then I think you know you're doing [TS]

  dominant in a sense of like you decide [TS]

  what to do you do it rough like what is [TS]

  what do you mean if you're outside of if [TS]

  you're outside of like the community [TS]

  you're talking about like normal people [TS]

  because i'm just guessing a lot of [TS]

  ladies probably don't get to push around [TS]

  and say hey you know what take a walk [TS]

  downstairs [TS]

  I think they do you know I think that's [TS]

  part of I think that's part of healthy [TS]

  sex and it's and it at the most of the [TS]

  most vanilla it's just a question of [TS]

  like who's on top [TS]

  yeah first base right and then you go [TS]

  and then as you get more and more [TS]

  serious about it it's like okay now I'm [TS]

  noms I'm restraining you right now I'm [TS]

  actually kind of holding you down now [TS]

  I'm just kind of pretending to cut off [TS]

  your air for a while anything a lot of [TS]

  women do that demand just for fun just [TS]

  to that event for no reason i'm going to [TS]

  choke you a little until you take out [TS]

  the trash [TS]

  I you know I like to use to two [TS]

  different shades of what you're talking [TS]

  about there could be way more and i [TS]

  really would really rather not talk [TS]

  about any of this but but but there's [TS]

  there's there's two on the one hand [TS]

  which you can learn to is is a kind of [TS]

  like you know a BDSM community kind of [TS]

  thing where you're like that's right i [TS]

  like to you know I like to dress like a [TS]

  cowboy or whatever netflix ring like to [TS]

  be a lady horse or lady horse but you [TS]

  know but here's the thing there's a big [TS]

  difference between like we're gonna have [TS]

  a little play here and we both agreed [TS]

  with the script is versus I just like [TS]

  joking people are demanding or demanding [TS]

  the people for late me or you know or [TS]

  whatever there's a big difference a big [TS]

  difference and maybe that's your point [TS]

  but you know i think i think the point [TS]

  is that the those are the people that [TS]

  are like out there on the friendship [TS]

  that has been that has been introduced [TS]

  to mainstream American culture and maybe [TS]

  it's because i live in the city and then [TS]

  i'ma rock musician that I that you know [TS]

  that that I could have the pinky up the [TS]

  butt sometimes I where everything gets [TS]

  the spotlight fats photos i wear [TS]

  different colored handkerchiefs in my [TS]

  back pocket unaware [TS]

  what it means and then I'll follow [TS]

  people based on the signals they give me [TS]

  but it seems like dan Savage for [TS]

  instance his column has introduced these [TS]

  a lot of these words a lot of these [TS]

  concepts into mainstream culture so that [TS]

  you can no longer you can no longer say [TS]

  with a straight face that you don't know [TS]

  what a dirty sanchez is where 25 years [TS]

  ago nobody knew in turkey sandwiches to [TS]

  get dirty sanchez ever happened that was [TS]

  all the time [TS]

  I mean like actually happens or real [TS]

  dirty sanchez 1y of the word happens all [TS]

  the time but it seems that actually [TS]

  happens to you think everything happens [TS]

  and and part of it and this is this is [TS]

  part of dealing with with the with kinky [TS]

  culture i got from within kinky culture [TS]

  to get food people feel like they are [TS]

  like it's really a question of like [TS]

  their needs and their rights and their [TS]

  you know what i mean and from without [TS]

  taking culture it's very easy and I do [TS]

  it to to say like what happened to you [TS]

  that you can enjoy normal sex [TS]

  why do you have to get poop on your face [TS]

  like and how the game buddy I don't [TS]

  think that many people outside of [TS]

  Germany actually enjoy that [TS]

  well people enjoy the other problem and [TS]

  I'd literally don't wanna talk about [TS]

  this anymore but the but the problem is [TS]

  that it being an asshole it's not the [TS]

  same thing as being dominant in fact [TS]

  it's kind of the opposite of that know [TS]

  being an asshole is just being announced [TS]

  just being an asshole and I think that [TS]

  the problem is when you start [TS]

  introducing this kind of terminology dan [TS]

  Savage notwithstanding i think i think [TS]

  you're basically telling a lot of people [TS]

  that there's there's a fancy upscale [TS]

  urban name for being a dick [TS]

  Oh No being a dick is being a dick and [TS]

  BM and like that's part of your bit [TS]

  you've worked at a time dominance and [TS]

  submission is a thing that people [TS]

  well it's just natural okay you cannot [TS]

  have to you cannot have wealth in [TS]

  everything in life there is one there's [TS]

  always every interaction there's an [TS]

  unequal power thing you know and i think [TS]

  part of the part of the problem with our [TS]

  generation is that we were raised to [TS]

  think that any exercise and any exercise [TS]

  of power over another person is [TS]

  undemocratic [TS]

  and bad you know right and it's not [TS]

  every station get out whether they're [TS]

  being choked [TS]

  exactly well it's not Yeah right right [TS]

  do I mean that it is one thing to [TS]

  consent it's another thing to it's [TS]

  another thing to like reflexively [TS]

  require consent for everything you do I [TS]

  feel like we are about two paragraphs [TS]

  away from just look at what she was [TS]

  wearing [TS]

  why do why do you have words like [TS]

  material and ordinance that are [TS]

  deliberately spelled wrong is that an [TS]

  army thing just a fuck yes it's French [TS]

  material is different from material [TS]

  right because it is because it comes [TS]

  from when the French were the great war [TS]

  makers as I'm guessing that's a pretty [TS]

  long time ago [TS]

  uh well yeah they were great war makers [TS]

  a long time but the technology right [TS]

  that good they were good they like they [TS]

  make trouble shades and stuff right [TS]

  they did but also you know it in the [TS]

  united kingdom because the French were [TS]

  because after the Norman Conquest the [TS]

  French the lower the royal family in [TS]

  England spoke French for many years [TS]

  after and there's a thing in English law [TS]

  where they actually the lawyers and the [TS]

  courts in England continue to speak [TS]

  French all the way up like through the [TS]

  18th century so there are all these [TS]

  terms in English law that are that are [TS]

  spoken French still because of this [TS]

  because of well basically because the [TS]

  norman conquest and and that's also true [TS]

  in war-making and the terms of art and [TS]

  politics and some for yourselves that i [TS]

  never found the actual education for [TS]

  this and you know what french means [TS]

  insects course [TS]

  oh uh surrendering did he get that means [TS]

  i think that means to be office [TS]

  um I'm not going to get you off of [TS]

  anything John if we're gonna have listen [TS]

  let me just explain one thing to do and [TS]

  i will cut this out if I have to but I [TS]

  want to find one thing if we are going [TS]

  to be in business to get there if we are [TS]

  going to cash out if we are going to if [TS]

  we are going to have an exit event a [TS]

  good lucky bucket [TS]

  you gotta go with the hankie in my back [TS]

  pocket symbolizes I don't think it would [TS]

  be single thing in the world I want to [TS]

  know less than the color of your hanky [TS]

  is that book on your resume can resumes [TS]

  if we're gonna do Jews bones of work to [TS]

  do bukkake bucket [TS]

  we're gonna have to work very closely [TS]

  and I want to ask the fucking ground [TS]

  rules i'm going to talk about sex i [TS]

  don't want to talk about power [TS]

  I don't want to wrestle I don't wanna [TS]

  wrassle right okay you're a politician [TS]

  you don't want to talk about politics i [TS]

  will talk about Hitler or the Cold War [TS]

  you're living in a stockade you're like [TS]

  so you're like some some some army guide [TS]

  and they're loud in my engine starting [TS]

  right don't have to think about you [TS]

  having an orgasm and that's a happy [TS]

  fucking stockade up and now let me know [TS]

  i have never had a girl you mean fake [TS]

  i have never had a girl you mean fake [TS]

  no no long ah god four kinds of kids [TS]

  candy corn antenna incidental boners [TS]

  that's going to be a good title dancing [TS]

  spitballs well I i should have eaten but [TS]

  you know we don't work together you got [TS]

  out of the probably continue I i have [TS]

  you ever heard of BB cafe like BB cafe [TS]

  bbkf a bi bi cafe [TS]

  no no just units this is something that [TS]

  i don't know if i don't know if i should [TS]

  even mention this to you because you're [TS]

  going I'm going to guess not going to [TS]

  change your life god it is coffee [TS]

  it's Italian yeah it's coffee and fizzy [TS]

  water together in a bottle [TS]

  it's not like Christmas porn though like [TS]

  while you fuck up to good things [TS]

  no no you got it this stuff it's coffee [TS]

  and fizzy water mineral water like [TS]

  seltzer such sensor ok and it's [TS]

  concentrated and you pour in a you pour [TS]

  over ice then you add a little cream [TS]

  sounds refreshing and it turns into this [TS]

  fizzy coffee milkshake dental super [TS]

  centaurum well-liked foamy girl judges [TS]

  how God and it is incredible [TS]

  there's no way something to me so I used [TS]

  to drink baby café all the time and a [TS]

  half for the legging it i can't remember [TS]

  who introduced get to me this is years [TS]

  and years ago but anyway they stopped [TS]

  importing it to the United States [TS]

  because it was too [TS]

  it was like it was like I don't know why [TS]

  it has to be because it's like heroin [TS]

  but yeah anyway uh a close friend found [TS]

  me a bottle of BB cafe the other day and [TS]

  so instead of my regular coffee before [TS]

  our podcast i have been drinking BB cafe [TS]

  fiore sound down imbued today OB cafe [TS]

  it's in a bottle look at that [TS]

  sparkling espresso drink oh dear me this [TS]

  looks awfully good baby calf is a [TS]

  slightly effervescent premium Italian [TS]

  espresso drink with hints of caramel and [TS]

  vanilla [TS]

  yes huh it is bonkers but you can't find [TS]

  it anymore i used to buy it by the case [TS]

  and now it's like it's this the [TS]

  effervescence has actually turned into [TS]

  like you can't even find it or see it [TS]

  but anyway I got this one bottle of baby [TS]

  calf and just it's a the end and the [TS]

  espresso it gives you this kind of it [TS]

  almost gives you synesthesia you can see [TS]

  see colors when people play notes and [TS]

  there's do you feel like off you're not [TS]

  though not at all very controlled how [TS]

  are clean [TS]

  it's so clean yeah it's so clear it's so [TS]

  top shelf has no no jitters baby café I [TS]

  think that if what i can tell looking [TS]

  quickly it looks like it might have been [TS]

  discontinued as a brand I've done my [TS]

  time on this but I told that after well [TS]

  I have to do some more research on this [TS]

  weekend a lot of long ago long hours [TS]

  ahead of us if we're going to make this [TS]

  business happen so we're gonna need [TS]

  something to keep us on our game there's [TS]

  anything that in America if there's any [TS]

  place in America you should be able to [TS]

  find BB cafe is San Francisco careful we [TS]

  love we love we're drinks here do i get [TS]

  for that Bronco with a single largest [TS]

  consumer of fernet branca San Francisco [TS]

  I in north america in north america [TS]

  there's a will there's a way that I told [TS]

  your buddy about that your noise pop [TS]

  buddy [TS]

  yeah you know they gave it away when [TS]

  your noise pop and within a year [TS]

  everybody was hooked and tastes like [TS]

  shit that happened up here is fruit for [TS]

  your seattle have this tavern wall where [TS]

  you could have taverns or bars and [TS]

  taverns you could sell beer and wine and [TS]

  you could have windows in the place up [TS]

  and you didn't have to sell food but if [TS]

  you had a bar yet you couldn't have [TS]

  windows and you had to sell food while [TS]

  of laws like that [TS]

  yeah it's just like what so so there [TS]

  were all these taverns arm because that [TS]

  was you know to have a bar was a was a [TS]

  big operation but have a terrible you [TS]

  just start selling beer and one and the [TS]

  bar that are the tavern that I used to [TS]

  drink out was called the comet tavern i [TS]

  think i might even taking you there [TS]

  so they sold they sold all different [TS]

  kinds of beer and they only have that [TS]

  they decided not to so much wine but [TS]

  they started selling port port au port [TS]

  and you you could get a you get a little [TS]

  shut that's a kind of like fortified [TS]

  strong line [TS]

  yeah we get a shot a port to kind of [TS]

  like help your beer buzz bloom and at a [TS]

  certain point and and Porto is like a is [TS]

  a is a European brand and it's and it's [TS]

  you know it's thought of as it's maybe [TS]

  not a high-class beverage but it's [TS]

  certainly like a like a glass of port is [TS]

  something that you it's something after [TS]

  dinner with a cigar right exactly it's [TS]

  something for discerning tastes well [TS]

  anyway the the story is that that this [TS]

  company in Portugal that makes porto [TS]

  said there's this bar in America that is [TS]

  selling more port more of our port than [TS]

  anywhere else in the country and we have [TS]

  to send a representative there to see [TS]

  what this incredible bar is that wow you [TS]

  know this amazing fern bar whatever they [TS]

  must be sitting around smoking cigars [TS]

  drinking our beverage we have to send [TS]

  somebody there and and and thank them [TS]

  and give them a plaque like thinking [TS]

  it's gonna be real fancy yeah this guy [TS]

  shows up and it's this fuckin why no bar [TS]

  full of drugs rockers we're just [TS]

  throwing back the Porto and that the guy [TS]

  was horrified and ashamed and went [TS]

  running out of there he came here from [TS]

  Portugal [TS]

  yeah to give them some kind of like [TS]

  black money and he realized as soon as [TS]

  he walked in that you know there's just [TS]

  a scrim of vomit on the floor right it's [TS]

  one of those bars where the ceiling is [TS]

  covered with dollar bills if people have [TS]

  written like what you come to honor [TS]

  through that everybody's like back [TS]

  it's got one if you have to give you the [TS]

  all shits God nice [TS]

  scram of vomit huh [TS]

  the floor slick but they do give you a [TS]

  free turkey dinner on thanksgiving but [TS]

  really the comet tavern yeah they have a [TS]

  big they have a big turkey is like [TS]

  something Richard Hugo would write about [TS]

  it's very Richard Hugo in fact it's [TS]

  actually right around the corner from [TS]

  the Richard Hugo house which is where [TS]

  your band used to practice right next to [TS]

  that right that's right now is a real [TS]

  capacity look there is a capacitor and [TS]

  I've seen video of it who comparison [TS]

  tavern [TS]

  yeah absolutely is that death of the [TS]

  composite average one of my favorites [TS]

  I know you anything uh hi I'm a fan I [TS]

  got it I got it I got to get off of this [TS]

  is this is I want to come back to the [TS]

  four kinds of this is the John's has [TS]

  been awful [TS]

  this is really hard for me i know i know [TS]

  what happens if I don't know we've [TS]

  really really easy job [TS]

  you made me tweak or square i think it's [TS]

  quick [TS]

  you slipped a little bit yeah yeah gonna [TS]

  have to go take a cold shower and scrub [TS]

  yourself with a loofah take it gets [TS]

  really together with a hankie has hit [TS]

  your head before I don't want to talk to [TS]

  john about sex i don't know what's going [TS]

  you know what's going on with me IRA [TS]

  but you know Ben it's a spring I guess [TS]

  spring your philippines now the the BB [TS]

  cafe we gotta find out more about that's [TS]

  like the first time someone gave me an [TS]

  adderall was like wall the scales fall [TS]

  from my eyes you know what I mean yeah i [TS]

  know i've never had an adderall good for [TS]

  you stay away from that candy corn [TS]

  antenna incidental owners on shackleford [TS]

  he was not shackled for doing nowadays [TS]

  you know well interestingly i got in [TS]

  touch with dark chocolate recently he's [TS]

  living in Alaska ever since he retired [TS]

  he got on the ear ring which here I [TS]

  don't know that symbolizes something to [TS]

  i'm not sure what you're always thi have [TS]

  a guy and i got mine the latch getting [TS]

  left here you know i'm one of those [TS]

  people that never notices if someone's [TS]

  wearing a wedding ring or what right [TS]

  here there is pierced like all those [TS]

  symbols that people are all the flags [TS]

  that they're flying like [TS]

  I'm into this you know for years the [TS]

  guys would walk around with leather [TS]

  jackets with those cock rings hanging [TS]

  off of the airport and I have no idea [TS]

  what it wasn't thought it was like a [TS]

  plumbing supply did not know that it was [TS]

  a cock ring and that that's what it's um [TS]

  I don't know what a cock ring that's [TS]

  been used in outerwear that doesn't seem [TS]

  I genic little bit rough trade so how'd [TS]

  you find out checking for get an earring [TS]

  I oh so he came down to seattle i took [TS]

  them around one night we want lovely we [TS]

  went and hung out I mean he was a great [TS]

  he was a great teacher he was a he was a [TS]

  he's definitely my favorite teacher in [TS]

  high school and he ended up he ended up [TS]

  being a a good mentor he was the one [TS]

  that he's the one that famously like [TS]

  after he was the principal of the school [TS]

  called me into his office right before [TS]

  graduation and SAT me down and put a put [TS]

  a stack of computer printout in front of [TS]

  me and said this is the list of all the [TS]

  graduating seniors in order of grade [TS]

  point average i'd like you to find your [TS]

  name [TS]

  I'd like you to sit here in front of me [TS]

  and find your name and i started the at [TS]

  the top and I said I'm not first the [TS]

  clip not a second he was like let me [TS]

  help you out [TS]

  flip to the two last page last in my [TS]

  class but don was done was a good that [TS]

  was probably there's probably did you [TS]

  discuss the great Texas dynamite chase [TS]

  where all the the dynamite incident [TS]

  outside i'm sorry/not divisions movie [TS]

  did you discuss the dynamite Locker [TS]

  incident ya know what happens up that [TS]

  always comes up he's he is very a [TS]

  because I've now seen him a few times [TS]

  and he's very unapologetic and he says [TS]

  even straight up you were an asshole and [TS]

  if i could bust you if I could have [TS]

  busted you twice i would have busted [TS]

  twice for bringing pipe bombs to school [TS]

  and you come around that point of view [TS]

  yes whoo yes i believe that i believe [TS]

  that he that you know it isn't I have [TS]

  said it before but it is a miracle that [TS]

  i lived to adulthood for so many reasons [TS]

  and there were not there were actually [TS]

  surprisingly few people who stood [TS]

  in between me and me blowing myself up [TS]

  but but the few people that did you know [TS]

  probably probably saved my ass and [TS]

  Donald's one of them [TS]

  um yeah you got it you got to be [TS]

  grateful for this at the time they feel [TS]

  like such a hindrance [TS]

  yeah you know a lot of other times when [TS]

  what saved my ass was just that I had [TS]

  not inserted the fuse properly and and [TS]

  the lighter i was using was something [TS]

  that i found on the ground and it didn't [TS]

  have any fluid interwebs is there [TS]

  somebody wants to go back and get ever [TS]

  knows there's a big part of me that if I [TS]

  had it to do over I would have [TS]

  definitely I would definitely blow [TS]

  myself [TS]

  all right there is [TS]

  [Music] [TS]