Ep. 57: "Unfair"
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hello hi John Merlin has gone good i
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just have some mouth noises to make here
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not for the top of the set
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it's the season it's the mouth noise
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yeah he took a lot of water
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I i do you know when I was when I was
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young I couldn't stand water
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me neither hated it yeah hated it and
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then somehow somewhere along the line I
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got I got to my sister and my sister in
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particular is a real water sort of
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pusher and and somewhere along the line
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I got I got a taste for it and now I I
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probably drink a half gallon of it just
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just every time I walk past the sink I'm
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i choked up big glass water food and
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i've been i love it i can get enough of
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that's pretty much exactly my experience
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I i wonder if part of it
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two things one of my palate developed
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from just wanting a 12 pack of coke a
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day on and the other thing is they go
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wow that's what you're really out of
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yeah go ahead go ahead I'm listening
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let's see I think it's that I had other
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anyway missed just because a mic
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placement what about what about
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lip-smacking know here's a cover sheet
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get an sm57 on that red leather chair
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i'll put up on mature my get in the do
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chris wallace get a room mic with a
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trigger so you get that kind of David
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Bowie low thing when it's a real when
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it's real dinger archers both make
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noises continue mine
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well I'm a very have you ever seen the
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photograph of my chair i'm not sure i
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read all the magazines even remember it
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really really remember
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yeah let's get the cat is it stained
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it's hard to tell but at a certain point
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it's like to get out like the industrial
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carpeting you have in parts of a bar
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where it becomes one kind of contiguous
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stained like one hypnotic stain yeah
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yeah so the high-traffic areas of your
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chair are sort of more stain the low
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chap driving Eric yeah yeah I used as a
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blue mechanics paper towels share the
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surf so kind of fell apart at a certain
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point and I fixed it with the I made my
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own plywood it's not homemade Flyway
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yeah i took some unique I think you do
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that well I didn't either until I did it
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but I i drilled a hole where the where
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the thing had broken where the dowel had
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broken so I drilled a larger hole and
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then I took a bunch of wood chips at
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that you don't like match sticks and
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stuff and I'm i crunch them all up and
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then I i poured a bunch of glue on that
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and i made a kind of matchstick and glue
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amount them and then I i put it into the
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hole let it dry it's so much more
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accomplished than you give yourself
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then I drill the old a new hole through
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the glue and through the fake plywood
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and then the chairs good as new
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I'll tell you what you made my friend
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you have made our casino particleboard
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alright yeah that's what it is a
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particle particle board on my sense is
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based on a conversation we had your
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mom's house a few weeks ago that you are
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not a fan of why I'm gonna get you like
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plywood for certain things but don't you
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have a certain respect for a nice long
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piece of continuous contiguous
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mm my sense was that you had you have a
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serious respect for the pores in your
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solid wood longwood would well we
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haven't had like 20 minutes on this
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yeah i've got all these all these
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abominations in your neighborhood made
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of short short pointless would and that
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you had continuous planks and yes this
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is this is you know this is a component
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of what this is a theme that you and I
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touched on a lot which is the be tearing
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down of a hundred-year-old thing made
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out of perfect old-growth lumber to
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replace it with something made out of
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off-gassing particle board and then
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posting a sign in the front saying all
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green construction man its new green
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condos and all the polymers have
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insurance you and nothing about nothing
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about it is green tearing the tearing
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the perfectly good house down was not
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green and manufacturing all the all the
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chemical products that this house is
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constructed of was but that wasn't green
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and then building this new house wasn't
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green there's nothing great about it
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except that they installed an efficient
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furnace in the new building or some
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other they being are they put put
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photovoltaic panels on the roof and then
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it's in and people people walk through
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life well i bought this really green
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condo and it's a gym no idea what was
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there and what we have lost as a people
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what we have lost in terms of our
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patrimony these houses that were you
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know if you look at if you tear down
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tear the inside walls out of my mom's
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house which I have done these
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two-by-fours are 28 feet long and
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there's not a knot hole in them there's
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not even a Knothole there there from
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trees that stood that they cut the trees
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but they built my mom's house out of
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they cut them down from three blocks
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away and carted them there by horse and
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milled them on on a sawmill you know
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presumably powered by about probably
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Mexicans know there are no mexicans here
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then it was probably the Chinese it was
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putting well now there were Chinese but
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no but i think it was either powered by
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horse or by would but by the by the
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branches by of branches
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more green and looking for it's all
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right there everything you need is right
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yeah and to tear it down i personally
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think is a crime against all humanity
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and then to build a thing you know a lot
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of these places that term off-gassing
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who is a construction term but that
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tries to describe how all of these these
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a all the particle board and the Emmy
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the wallboard and the most of the
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products that the the the new carpet it
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all after the house is built and after
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you move in it sits there and just sort
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of sort of permeates gather exist gasps
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that's yeah i mean any I mean now behind
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the ones like the formaldehyde also
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things like I don't know if it's a
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petroleum thing but things obviously
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like plastics and down aspects
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well you know for example we buy we buy
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a bath mat we like that we've bought
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three times as its worn-out haha but
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wait a minute wait a minute what are you
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gonna do when they start making that
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back Matt I want to make one out of
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Longwood are you going to be much more
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than I Japanese don't work ping pong but
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every time we buy one of these the same
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thing happen to bring it home and take
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it out of the plastic men it's it's it's
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like a giant plastic vulva opening the
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entire house is enveloped in this in
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this smell and so we've got things like
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to use going to vulva as a as a as a
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metaphor is a plastic vulva I'm not
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being a normative a plastic vomit tell
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me where plastic level it's not going to
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taste like a 9-volt battery smell like a
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bath mat let's be honest
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anyway my point being I I just what it's
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worth I first of all I like to come back
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this because I completely agree with you
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I think the green thing I don't want to
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get off on one of my jags here but I
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think it depends a lot on which micro or
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macro level you want to look at it
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yeah from you know I mean you know to
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just to your point I mean I don't know
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this maybe I don't have enough
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information to to intelligently agree or
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disagree with you but I i agree with you
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being as an intelligent as i am right
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and something we can all agree on long
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way on that do well no but here's the
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thing I I mean the face that I I'm
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you're saying makes complete sense to me
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and this is why when you when you pull
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back the lens just a little bit you say
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well okay well there's also the vehicles
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that had to have gas in them to bring
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people there to make it
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yeah and then the the cheeseburgers this
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little house that Jack built
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mhm oh you know what the house that was
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pretty good you know when you go when
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you go to someplace like you got a rural
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England and you go into somebody's house
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that has a thatched roof and you said
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tell me about your house and they're
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like this house was built in 1547 and
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they show you around the the ceilings in
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the house or are about five foot two and
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you have to duck everywhere you go and
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and got everyone's a hobbit
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well they were certainly and and that no
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thing a lot of canned food mmm perhaps
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the floors are even you know they're
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there ramshackle places and you go wow
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this house you know this house really is
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like it's such a wonderful treasure and
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then you think about it and you're like
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this house was just a bit this house is
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just the one that survived there wasn't
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anything special about it over over 500
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years all the much better houses than
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this were all torn down or burned down
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and so this little thing half the reason
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it survived probably is that no one
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cared enough about it to tear it down
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no one cared enough about that piece of
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property or or they just didn't get
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around to the land the land it
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ramshackle east on ya and so this thing
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survives and now we now has a plaque on
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the door and now we go there and
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celebrate it but in fact it is just it's
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just the it's just that like that how
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the detritus all the beautiful houses
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are are gone and this is the
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relationship I have with portland oregon
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portland oregon is a beautiful city full
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of bungalows and old architecture and
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the reason that's true is that for the
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last hundred years no one cared enough
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about portland oregon there anything
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down there build something new you know
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it was a it was a backwater and a shit
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Berg and you'd go down there and you're
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like oh yeah it's a house it's a it's a
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bungalows and all of them have that have
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moss on the eaves and you can tell every
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single bungalow in Portland has had four
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people living in it all of them
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chain-smoking 20 years that yellow
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patina inside the entire city of
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Portland had a yellow patina until until
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2002 and who's gonna who's gonna find
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you know a renovation of hooker town if
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there wasn't if there wasn't that the
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people as we talked about in previous
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episode if there aren't the people
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coming in with the with the Genesis
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device to to change everything
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everything's going to sit there and it
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is ironic it's same thing happened in
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San Francisco where these houses that
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were in neighborhoods people didn't care
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about they would get those awful sixties
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and seventies renovations but they
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hadn't done anything
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select all the houses the hippies lived
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in and have half-ruined superficially in
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in the sixties and seventies are now
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really expensive houses up1 try to buy a
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house along the Panhandle that is a lot
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of dough is it's a gorgeous victorian
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that was on the west side of the
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earthquake you know made it out and and
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and and that's a funny thing about San
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Francisco is that you know now of course
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today it's it's ludicrous it if you want
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to do anything to your house there's a
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lot of rules like if you have to
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maintain the bay windows
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yeah there's all kinds of the windows
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will sag well i just i see those bay
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windows beautiful ones actually in like
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the western addition in particular I see
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those beautiful curved pieces of glass
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I just think that it must be so costly
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when you have to you know replace curved
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glass in the window
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yeah it's insane well what happened here
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in Seattle was that we had the world's
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fair in 1963 and 64 huh where they built
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the space needle and they tore down a
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big to in order to build kind of the
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seattle center they tore down a a
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ramshackle neighborhood of flop houses
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and stuff to build that but that wasn't
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that great of a loss but what happened
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was that was exactly the era that was
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kind of the the the peak area of that
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sort of modernist
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23 story flat-roofed apartment building
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where the walkway was there the hallways
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were out side it's the motel
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architecture and what Seattle had was
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that we built this world's fair and
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people were going to come from around
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the world for a whole year we were going
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to have a million people a day here to
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see the seattle center and so there was
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this sweeping redevelopment of the city
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where people went into all those
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Victorian neighborhoods and they said
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well here this whole dish house full of
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you know full of transients even though
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it has nine bedrooms
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we're going to tear this down and we're
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gonna build a kind of motel style
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apartment building that will house these
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visitors from out of state and then
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after those people go it'll be an it'll
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be an apartment building
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won't that be nice we'll have well we'll
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have replaced that dilapidated old house
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with a modern apartment building and so
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throughout the city pretend the most
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interesting neighborhoods we have you'll
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victorian house victorian house
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six-night 1963-64 motel style apartment
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just sandwiched in between them and now
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40 years later when a developer goes
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into that neighborhood and says which
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one of these three things and i'm going
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to buy and teardown they invariably
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choose the Victorian still you know
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because who's going to tear down at nine
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unit apartment building that right you
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know they're still making money off of
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that and so we still so Seattle looks a
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lot worse than portland i have to admit
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because you walk down the street you
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just like there's no plan here there's
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no nothing is governing our development
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except tear the thing down and you are
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obviously you cannot count on the tastes
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of the people who own that property to
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have any interesting integrating our how
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that place looks or works
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you cannot count on
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yeah yeah and this brings a straight
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back to I think one of our greatest
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threads which again this is for new
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listeners something you acquainted me
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with a longer time goes there's a new
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listeners is that heartless monster like
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architectural preservation got it got it
[TS]
◼
►
can I get when you talk about super
[TS]
◼
►
train again beyond only the the you we
[TS]
◼
►
had a conversation once i was actually
[TS]
◼
►
that long ago before the program but you
[TS]
◼
►
for this program started but you you're
[TS]
◼
►
telling me about how you can learn so
[TS]
◼
►
much from a city you know you're a man
[TS]
◼
►
who doesn't pick up a map to go to go
[TS]
◼
►
look around right at you but you can
[TS]
◼
►
learn a lot just from looking at the
[TS]
◼
►
elevations in the city where is the
[TS]
◼
►
waterway oh this is where they put the
[TS]
◼
►
railroad tracks that explains why there
[TS]
◼
►
are the kinds of things around here that
[TS]
◼
►
would be good for railroad industry and
[TS]
◼
►
the people who work there
[TS]
◼
►
here's the waterways that's why they
[TS]
◼
►
probably stopped here is a reason
[TS]
◼
►
Pittsburgh is where it is in case the
[TS]
◼
►
San Francisco for example when they
[TS]
◼
►
added the streetcars and whatever year
[TS]
◼
►
that was that was the first time that
[TS]
◼
►
you could live in the highly developed
[TS]
◼
►
that you can live comfortably and highly
[TS]
◼
►
desirable neighborhoods that are at the
[TS]
◼
►
top of a very steep incline because
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly and you know these are the days
[TS]
◼
►
before you just zip down to the safe way
[TS]
◼
►
to pick up your groceries so having
[TS]
◼
►
something like you know what we have
[TS]
◼
►
left it there the cable cars which are
[TS]
◼
►
very silly and not all that useful but
[TS]
◼
►
back then that was a revelation and in
[TS]
◼
►
and so you can tell for example
[TS]
◼
►
generally living near the water in most
[TS]
◼
►
places you know if it's like an ice
[TS]
◼
►
water is more expensive living higher
[TS]
◼
►
rather than lower is a nice place to
[TS]
◼
►
live and so hey why is it that the
[TS]
◼
►
tornadoes always take out all the mobile
[TS]
◼
►
home so because it's in the most shitty
[TS]
◼
►
low-lying areas where no one want to
[TS]
◼
►
live the floods easily tomato tornado
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and I mean I think what's funny is
[TS]
◼
►
like that that is you know even with the
[TS]
◼
►
the Internet economy I think that still
[TS]
◼
►
means a lot you know and and to just I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know I can always come back to
[TS]
◼
►
Tallahassee where I lived for 10 years
[TS]
◼
►
and Florida State University the old
[TS]
◼
►
buildings there are so beautiful
[TS]
◼
►
the old and but they all are you can
[TS]
◼
►
tell when the place was initially built
[TS]
◼
►
it's just beautiful classy like I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know the style of architecture is but I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know the name for but it was in
[TS]
◼
►
the eighteen hundreds i think in early
[TS]
◼
►
nineteen hundreds so there's a burst of
[TS]
◼
►
money at that time and they built the
[TS]
◼
►
women's college of florida or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
it was called and then you can just tell
[TS]
◼
►
there were burst of influxes of money
[TS]
◼
►
probably old people dying wanting their
[TS]
◼
►
name on something and there's this
[TS]
◼
►
hodgepodge of different buildings that
[TS]
◼
►
went up in fifties through the eighties
[TS]
◼
►
right all of them science building all
[TS]
◼
►
of them like wildly different with only
[TS]
◼
►
the most superficial nod start having
[TS]
◼
►
any kind of continuity with how the rest
[TS]
◼
►
of the place looks and and some of them
[TS]
◼
►
have that I I'm trying to figure out if
[TS]
◼
►
i want to blame this one guy corbusier
[TS]
◼
►
you have basically invented square
[TS]
◼
►
cement buildings and and made made every
[TS]
◼
►
you know mall and apartment buildings
[TS]
◼
►
and skyscrapers look the same John
[TS]
◼
►
Flansburg is so mad right now
[TS]
◼
►
why he loves these things well he's just
[TS]
◼
►
going to be probably yell at us for a
[TS]
◼
►
thousand reasons about talking about
[TS]
◼
►
Lucien but I was here Kordofan who knows
[TS]
◼
►
ok but you know yeah you know it's like
[TS]
◼
►
the bart station for example I every
[TS]
◼
►
time there's a part station I feel like
[TS]
◼
►
it looks like something from Planet of
[TS]
◼
►
the Apes Logan's Run Logan's Run yeah
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but everything you know and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
sorry not sure I'm going with this but
[TS]
◼
►
there's a funny confluence of in the
[TS]
◼
►
nineteen sixties in particular I pulling
[TS]
◼
►
this completely out of my ass
[TS]
◼
►
there was so much money for things like
[TS]
◼
►
education building so much more by the
[TS]
◼
►
late sixties in there had been a metric
[TS]
◼
►
is that correct to say that there was a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of new building and they were
[TS]
◼
►
obviously you know after the GI Bill you
[TS]
◼
►
people want to go to college and their
[TS]
◼
►
kids want to go to college was all this
[TS]
◼
►
building and is this like pseudo perfect
[TS]
◼
►
storm of money wanting the desire to
[TS]
◼
►
build a lot quickly and cheaply and the
[TS]
◼
►
influence of the square concrete
[TS]
◼
►
buildings that are now everywhere
[TS]
◼
►
well there's where concrete buildings
[TS]
◼
►
after the war were were honestly thought
[TS]
◼
►
there was a moral component to them in
[TS]
◼
►
people's imaginations like these were
[TS]
◼
►
clean it with open they were not these
[TS]
◼
►
you know sticking bone little rat holes
[TS]
◼
►
that a of you know victorian houses that
[TS]
◼
►
at that time were
[TS]
◼
►
60 years old and full of dust and mice
[TS]
◼
►
you know these were this was a these
[TS]
◼
►
buildings represented to people at the
[TS]
◼
►
time the future we we had fought a war
[TS]
◼
►
and we were we were going to build a new
[TS]
◼
►
world that look they're growing their
[TS]
◼
►
clean and they were modern and they did
[TS]
◼
►
not look like the kind of locations that
[TS]
◼
►
you would see that had been bombed
[TS]
◼
►
yeah these were exciting like american
[TS]
◼
►
buildings and am airport terminal
[TS]
◼
►
terminals and like exciting places for
[TS]
◼
►
people and my mom talks about it all the
[TS]
◼
►
time like the idea that you would have a
[TS]
◼
►
house where all the bedrooms were on the
[TS]
◼
►
same floor as the living room and the
[TS]
◼
►
kitchen was a radical notion and very
[TS]
◼
►
exciting one where you would open a
[TS]
◼
►
sliding glass door and step right from
[TS]
◼
►
your living room into the garden without
[TS]
◼
►
there being a stair-step you know all
[TS]
◼
►
these designs that we think of as
[TS]
◼
►
mid-century modern and and and kind of
[TS]
◼
►
you know like tract houses to their I
[TS]
◼
►
all these little details were were
[TS]
◼
►
incredible innovations and incredible
[TS]
◼
►
like almost I mean definitely like moral
[TS]
◼
►
technologies this is this is the way
[TS]
◼
►
people should live we now have the
[TS]
◼
►
technology to live with ease in these
[TS]
◼
►
custom homes and it's and we're never
[TS]
◼
►
going back to this tube to the bay
[TS]
◼
►
windows with the curved glass and it did
[TS]
◼
►
this I don't look they don't look very
[TS]
◼
►
space-age at a time when that kind of
[TS]
◼
►
modernity and that kind of with what is
[TS]
◼
►
called popular luxe style what was
[TS]
◼
►
coming and if you were going to go out
[TS]
◼
►
and you were mike brady and want to
[TS]
◼
►
interrupt water or an architect that
[TS]
◼
►
wanted a cool-looking you know house you
[TS]
◼
►
know you weren't going to make it in the
[TS]
◼
►
chicago-style em right that'd be awesome
[TS]
◼
►
I was alone a chicago-style house but
[TS]
◼
►
you know you look around you look around
[TS]
◼
►
your city and you learn you can see this
[TS]
◼
►
you can see people's more moral tastes
[TS]
◼
►
reflected in the in the physicality of
[TS]
◼
►
your town in a way that doesn't really
[TS]
◼
►
require that much imagination like you
[TS]
◼
►
just have to see it you just have to
[TS]
◼
►
turn your eyes that way that Seattle has
[TS]
◼
►
a neighborhood called wallingford which
[TS]
◼
►
is perched on a on a long broad sloping
[TS]
◼
►
hill that overlooks lake union which is
[TS]
◼
►
the lake at this very heart of the city
[TS]
◼
►
and then across Lake Union there's a
[TS]
◼
►
panoramic view of downtown queen anne
[TS]
◼
►
hill and and capitol hill so it's this
[TS]
◼
►
it's this beautiful neighborhood of
[TS]
◼
►
bungalows on this wide broad sloping
[TS]
◼
►
hill overlooking a lake and the rest of
[TS]
◼
►
the city but when you go there you
[TS]
◼
►
realize very quickly that the streets
[TS]
◼
►
are laid out wrong
[TS]
◼
►
the streets are a hundred percent wrong
[TS]
◼
►
they are laid out so that the bungalows
[TS]
◼
►
go so the long avenues actually go up
[TS]
◼
►
and down the hill right long avenues are
[TS]
◼
►
pointed at the view and the houses there
[TS]
◼
►
are there are 50,000 houses in this
[TS]
◼
►
neighborhood and almost none of them
[TS]
◼
►
have a view of this lake and this
[TS]
◼
►
panorama of the city they they look on
[TS]
◼
►
each other's backyards and in order to
[TS]
◼
►
get in order to get the view either have
[TS]
◼
►
to go stand on the roof or you have to
[TS]
◼
►
go out into the middle of the street and
[TS]
◼
►
look down the hill and for the longest
[TS]
◼
►
and so when you're in wallingford
[TS]
◼
►
there's something about it that just
[TS]
◼
►
kind of feels wrong you're conscious of
[TS]
◼
►
the city being right there and of this
[TS]
◼
►
lake and you know every night these
[TS]
◼
►
incredible sunsets but the neighborhood
[TS]
◼
►
just kind of looks at itself and then
[TS]
◼
►
you realize that at the foot of that
[TS]
◼
►
Hill is a thing we call gasworks Park
[TS]
◼
►
which is this this gym in the crown of
[TS]
◼
►
the city this beautiful park with an old
[TS]
◼
►
gasworks where they used to make these
[TS]
◼
►
the process natural gas there and you
[TS]
◼
►
realize when they built this
[TS]
◼
►
neighborhood of wallingford that view
[TS]
◼
►
down on the lake would have been a view
[TS]
◼
►
over a chemical plant for food into into
[TS]
◼
►
a lake that was full of steamships all
[TS]
◼
►
emptying their bilges at sunset
[TS]
◼
►
you know there was nothing about that
[TS]
◼
►
view that view was something that
[TS]
◼
►
whoever was developing the neighborhood
[TS]
◼
►
that view is something they wanted to
[TS]
◼
►
because when the wind changed direction
[TS]
◼
►
all of wallingford was coated with a
[TS]
◼
►
layer of chemical ash and so for the
[TS]
◼
►
rest of eternity in seattle like we've
[TS]
◼
►
cleaned up the city that that view right
[TS]
◼
►
now is it is a 10 trillion dollar view
[TS]
◼
►
but that neighborhood is always going to
[TS]
◼
►
be pointed the wrong direction because
[TS]
◼
►
at the time of you didn't matter to
[TS]
◼
►
people what mattered was you know that
[TS]
◼
►
you turn your back to the chemical plant
[TS]
◼
►
and you know that's so whenever I'm over
[TS]
◼
►
there I'm always like kind of haunted by
[TS]
◼
►
the haunted by the century I guess so
[TS]
◼
►
that the things the things that people
[TS]
◼
►
are interested in the people could
[TS]
◼
►
afford that people cared about the
[TS]
◼
►
people live with end up having an impact
[TS]
◼
►
long beyond the time that decision was
[TS]
◼
►
yeah forever and ever i mean there that
[TS]
◼
►
were there redeveloping London all the
[TS]
◼
►
time and a lot of you know what if you
[TS]
◼
►
tear something down in the center of
[TS]
◼
►
that was there for 700 years to build
[TS]
◼
►
something new and my opinion you'd
[TS]
◼
►
better really have a lot of faith that
[TS]
◼
►
the thing you're building now is gonna
[TS]
◼
►
is better than something that survived
[TS]
◼
►
seven hundred years and that isn't you
[TS]
◼
►
know I don't think people think that way
[TS]
◼
►
and I don't down i don't remember the
[TS]
◼
►
details of this so forgive me if I get
[TS]
◼
►
some of this wrong but I think it might
[TS]
◼
►
even them out before the earthquake here
[TS]
◼
►
I think all i know is at some point
[TS]
◼
►
somebody I don't think is Olmsted but
[TS]
◼
►
somebody had come up with a plan for the
[TS]
◼
►
city as it grew that was going to be
[TS]
◼
►
vastly different from what they come up
[TS]
◼
►
with because the first thing that you
[TS]
◼
►
notice in San Francisco that doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
seem really stupid from the air but
[TS]
◼
►
seems real stupid on the ground is what
[TS]
◼
►
you described which is there's there's
[TS]
◼
►
no reason that California Street needs
[TS]
◼
►
to be that steep there's no there's no
[TS]
◼
►
real on the face of it like it's crazy
[TS]
◼
►
to build the street straight its
[TS]
◼
►
straight go straight to the side of a
[TS]
◼
►
yeah my senses remember correctly that
[TS]
◼
►
there was a plan especially for the
[TS]
◼
►
Western neighborhoods like where I live
[TS]
◼
►
not right live was was a was basically
[TS]
◼
►
just you know on it there was not a lot
[TS]
◼
►
out here i think there was a nursing
[TS]
◼
►
school and maybe an abattoir there was
[TS]
◼
►
not a lot in my neighborhood was just
[TS]
◼
►
sayin Sam zooms right yeah yeah that's a
[TS]
◼
►
wonderful photos that you have my
[TS]
◼
►
neighborhood were looking down from you
[TS]
◼
►
know the kind of the top of the hill on
[TS]
◼
►
what's like 19th Avenue now where
[TS]
◼
►
there's I think there was chicken farms
[TS]
◼
►
was the main thing out here and i live
[TS]
◼
►
in a chicken farm
[TS]
◼
►
nothing wrong with that okay chicken
[TS]
◼
►
farms heritage chickens nothing wrong
[TS]
◼
►
with that but anyway but some some some
[TS]
◼
►
some due to come up with a plan saying
[TS]
◼
►
hey why don't we can build these new
[TS]
◼
►
roads in a way that goes around these
[TS]
◼
►
hills in a way that's a little more
[TS]
◼
►
humane on towards with the with the
[TS]
◼
►
ground and i want to say that it was the
[TS]
◼
►
earthquake in particular that they I
[TS]
◼
►
guess they need to rebuild quickly i'm
[TS]
◼
►
talking out of my ass again but the
[TS]
◼
►
point the point of the story is that now
[TS]
◼
►
today you know you can go out and buy a
[TS]
◼
►
bike and walking map of San Francisco
[TS]
◼
►
this fascinating already seen this but
[TS]
◼
►
and I enjoy a map that there's a great
[TS]
◼
►
you go and pick this up anywhere and it
[TS]
◼
►
will show you the city right a regular
[TS]
◼
►
old road map of the city but
[TS]
◼
►
every block between any two
[TS]
◼
►
intersections anywhere in San Francisco
[TS]
◼
►
gets like the Jesus Seminar card
[TS]
◼
►
cartography it shows you four different
[TS]
◼
►
colors to show you how steep the hill is
[TS]
◼
►
just between those two interceptions on
[TS]
◼
►
my block you can go and see I'm on they
[TS]
◼
►
come on like the second or third looking
[TS]
◼
►
to get a light pink getting darker place
[TS]
◼
►
a light red and a dark red
[TS]
◼
►
mm you know what I mean yeah and so this
[TS]
◼
►
is so if you're on a bike
[TS]
◼
►
luckily the bike routes that exists now
[TS]
◼
►
you know take advantage of the for
[TS]
◼
►
example 20th avenue you can use the
[TS]
◼
►
exact you're saying fuck attack
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but for example 20th avenue is the
[TS]
◼
►
longest contiguous north-south route in
[TS]
◼
►
my part of town that has the least he'll
[TS]
◼
►
pound for pound you've been on my street
[TS]
◼
►
I mean I'm out of breath when I walk
[TS]
◼
►
from my office uphill in three minutes
[TS]
◼
►
yes people very very very steep but you
[TS]
◼
►
know it is it's kind of funny how you
[TS]
◼
►
know you described with London for
[TS]
◼
►
example how you know who knows this
[TS]
◼
►
might have been a bad place to have a
[TS]
◼
►
house because this is where people
[TS]
◼
►
through their chamber pots out the
[TS]
◼
►
you know what i mean and and in the
[TS]
◼
►
fullness of time that that changes so no
[TS]
◼
►
all it takes all up for five over the
[TS]
◼
►
course of five hundred years
[TS]
◼
►
all it takes is a few people who live
[TS]
◼
►
long lives and live in the same house
[TS]
◼
►
their whole lives to affect the course
[TS]
◼
►
of development right there's that house
[TS]
◼
►
here in seattle where the the the
[TS]
◼
►
property developers had other they
[TS]
◼
►
bought the entire block except for this
[TS]
◼
►
one bedroom bungalow literally like the
[TS]
◼
►
smallest house you could you could
[TS]
◼
►
possibly build there was just this one
[TS]
◼
►
bungalow left on an enormous block in
[TS]
◼
►
ballard and the developers wanted to
[TS]
◼
►
build a super building that had a whole
[TS]
◼
►
foods in it and I'm sure it was going to
[TS]
◼
►
be very green don't know it had AI had a
[TS]
◼
►
trader joes in it and then it was gonna
[TS]
◼
►
be great construction and full of
[TS]
◼
►
architects offices
[TS]
◼
►
and this one little bungalow was owned
[TS]
◼
►
by a little old lady and her husband had
[TS]
◼
►
built it and she and died many years ago
[TS]
◼
►
and she still lived in this one better
[TS]
◼
►
place and she wouldn't sell and they
[TS]
◼
►
offered her a million dollars and she
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't sell and so they built their
[TS]
◼
►
massive trader joes architect building
[TS]
◼
►
around her house and her house still
[TS]
◼
►
bright like it up they they built an
[TS]
◼
►
entire thing around this little yeah
[TS]
◼
►
it's around this little house the the
[TS]
◼
►
building but the new building that they
[TS]
◼
►
built his four five stories tall and
[TS]
◼
►
this little teeny house sits in
[TS]
◼
►
basically a canyon that is three feet
[TS]
◼
►
wide on either side and three feet
[TS]
◼
►
behind it it's basically like an air
[TS]
◼
►
shaft where this houses and she just
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't you know she wouldn't sell
[TS]
◼
►
myself fuck you and the story is more
[TS]
◼
►
hilarious because it wasn't a year or
[TS]
◼
►
two later that she finally died of old
[TS]
◼
►
age and she will do her house to one of
[TS]
◼
►
the construction dudes who brought her a
[TS]
◼
►
sandwich every day turns out
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's awesome so but but if you
[TS]
◼
►
talk about someplace in England you know
[TS]
◼
►
all it all it took was a family just to
[TS]
◼
►
to keep that house in their own hands
[TS]
◼
►
for a couple hundred years and you know
[TS]
◼
►
kind of pass it down a few people to
[TS]
◼
►
live live long lives and live in this
[TS]
◼
►
one place and all of a sudden this this
[TS]
◼
►
house has been protected from
[TS]
◼
►
development just by the fact that either
[TS]
◼
►
the family what was not up upwardly
[TS]
◼
►
mobile enough to ever leave it or just
[TS]
◼
►
sort of tradition bound and now this
[TS]
◼
►
thing survives and were like wow it's
[TS]
◼
►
amazing how did this thing make it all
[TS]
◼
►
these years and it's like well actually
[TS]
◼
►
500 years is just what we talked about
[TS]
◼
►
over eight generations
[TS]
◼
►
I mean that's not that's not outrageous
[TS]
◼
►
to think that that everyone's while the
[TS]
◼
►
house is actually passed down that many
[TS]
◼
►
well you know in in Florida that's
[TS]
◼
►
several lifetimes
[TS]
◼
►
you know there is the thing that always
[TS]
◼
►
strikes me is and this is just my own
[TS]
◼
►
heuristic but it seems to me that the
[TS]
◼
►
more content modern the more
[TS]
◼
►
contemporary you want to make a new
[TS]
◼
►
building look the more likely it is that
[TS]
◼
►
it will look extremely uncontested in 10
[TS]
◼
►
to 20 years not even time for years
[TS]
◼
►
well like yeah like yeah I that building
[TS]
◼
►
was built in 2004 I recognize the shade
[TS]
◼
►
of mob a vinyl siding you know like
[TS]
◼
►
building our dated instantly yeah i
[TS]
◼
►
think i'm feeling funny cuz i think we
[TS]
◼
►
talked about this a long time ago
[TS]
◼
►
thousand but i think we yeah I know we
[TS]
◼
►
talked about because the wet cellos that
[TS]
◼
►
ya feeling funny though because you have
[TS]
◼
►
this funny feeling I do have a funny
[TS]
◼
►
feeling the mosque building at Madison
[TS]
◼
►
is singing the link for this we know we
[TS]
◼
►
talked about this once before this
[TS]
◼
►
example of brutalist architecture and
[TS]
◼
►
where the first floor of the building
[TS]
◼
►
has like a ramp so that they can like
[TS]
◼
►
basically you turn the hose on on snakes
[TS]
◼
►
that are trying to rush the building the
[TS]
◼
►
writers yeah yeah and of course it's
[TS]
◼
►
just so hard we talked about this but
[TS]
◼
►
it's so horribly designed and
[TS]
◼
►
constructed where the music department
[TS]
◼
►
just to reiterate the music department
[TS]
◼
►
is in the basement where everything is
[TS]
◼
►
is wilting so you know it's but here's
[TS]
◼
►
another one i remember is in the
[TS]
◼
►
mid-eighties I guess there was you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's once again how about what they say
[TS]
◼
►
when they open a starbucks turns out
[TS]
◼
►
that that starbucks makes a lot of money
[TS]
◼
►
and the other starbucks don't
[TS]
◼
►
necessarily make less money it's just
[TS]
◼
►
really really strange phenomenon at
[TS]
◼
►
which sounds like a little bit like a
[TS]
◼
►
pyramid scheme to me but that's how was
[TS]
◼
►
in florida in the mid-eighties early to
[TS]
◼
►
mid eighties there was a sudden influx
[TS]
◼
►
of money for new construction i think it
[TS]
◼
►
probably had to do with financing
[TS]
◼
►
certain kind of attractive financing but
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly people were putting up strip
[TS]
◼
►
malls where they're just didn't need to
[TS]
◼
►
be another strip mall
[TS]
◼
►
it just it was it was unnecessary and
[TS]
◼
►
then all these places suddenly
[TS]
◼
►
everything had an awning
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and or an atrium well this is this
[TS]
◼
►
economic alchemy that people talk about
[TS]
◼
►
when they talk about job creation and
[TS]
◼
►
they talk about lowering the taxes
[TS]
◼
►
and trickle-down economics and all this
[TS]
◼
►
you know you you create what in
[TS]
◼
►
conservative thinking is this with this
[TS]
◼
►
sort of a ideal magical set of
[TS]
◼
►
circumstances where the business climate
[TS]
◼
►
is friendly for to development and all
[TS]
◼
►
of a sudden it's like a Genesis bomb of
[TS]
◼
►
capitalism and these you know these
[TS]
◼
►
economically stagnant areas become
[TS]
◼
►
economically vibrant and that is that is
[TS]
◼
►
the you know that is the the whole truth
[TS]
◼
►
of of conservatism of the magical
[TS]
◼
►
thinking of it it's just like look at
[TS]
◼
►
what happened but that mentality does
[TS]
◼
►
not take any kind of super long view on
[TS]
◼
►
development and they'll point to your
[TS]
◼
►
neighborhood in florida and saying you
[TS]
◼
►
know development swept into this area
[TS]
◼
►
and transformed it the tax base was
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly elevated everybody was making
[TS]
◼
►
more money the city was making more
[TS]
◼
►
money this is what happens when you
[TS]
◼
►
lower regulation and you reduce taxes
[TS]
◼
►
and you make this can make a place but
[TS]
◼
►
what they don't factor in and what is
[TS]
◼
►
completely irrelevant to their thinking
[TS]
◼
►
is what is in there what is that exactly
[TS]
◼
►
you know it's nail salons and it's you
[TS]
◼
►
know temporary businesses it's a new
[TS]
◼
►
Starbucks across the street from the old
[TS]
◼
►
starbucks and somehow they're both
[TS]
◼
►
making money it is this kind of like
[TS]
◼
►
magical place where economics is where
[TS]
◼
►
you know where capitalism is happening
[TS]
◼
►
but is that area improving people's
[TS]
◼
►
lives really 20 years from now is that
[TS]
◼
►
area is still going to be economically
[TS]
◼
►
vibrant really is there any reason for
[TS]
◼
►
it to be there you know when you look at
[TS]
◼
►
the land and you say oh there used to be
[TS]
◼
►
a stream hill stream here and there that
[TS]
◼
►
and so there was a mill here and that's
[TS]
◼
►
why this street is called Mill Street
[TS]
◼
►
and that's why this neighborhood is
[TS]
◼
►
called milltown and I see why
[TS]
◼
►
development happened here and I see why
[TS]
◼
►
these are warehouses instead of homes
[TS]
◼
►
and I you know and I see like and then
[TS]
◼
►
fell on hard times when the mill closed
[TS]
◼
►
because there wasn't there was new
[TS]
◼
►
milling technology that was happening
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere else they didn't need a
[TS]
◼
►
running stream you know etcetera you see
[TS]
◼
►
you see development through the lens of
[TS]
◼
►
history but then you go out into the
[TS]
◼
►
into the flats where it's like they
[TS]
◼
►
built a mall here because property was
[TS]
◼
►
cheap and taxes were low and then again
[TS]
◼
►
creating certain conditions the
[TS]
◼
►
conditions were were were right for
[TS]
◼
►
somebody who is smart to take advantage
[TS]
◼
►
of all these seemingly unrelated things
[TS]
◼
►
to make something nobody necessarily
[TS]
◼
►
needed but what's good for them right
[TS]
◼
►
but but as you say conditions are in a
[TS]
◼
►
way analogous to like oh there used to
[TS]
◼
►
be a river here so they built a mill oh
[TS]
◼
►
this is flat swampy land that they could
[TS]
◼
►
fill easily and so they built a mall
[TS]
◼
►
like that they're there is a there's a
[TS]
◼
►
continuity but but in the in the same
[TS]
◼
►
way like that land that there's another
[TS]
◼
►
way of looking at which was that was
[TS]
◼
►
swampy worthless land before and it's
[TS]
◼
►
swampy worthless line now nobody is
[TS]
◼
►
going to go this is that it's got an
[TS]
◼
►
orange julius now
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it has you've built a strip mall on
[TS]
◼
►
it but it is a kind of it is a false
[TS]
◼
►
paradigm of economics where where money
[TS]
◼
►
sleeps in and transforms a neighborhood
[TS]
◼
►
and then economist move on in their
[TS]
◼
►
thinking and they're like let's go
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere else and have capitalism
[TS]
◼
►
transforming area but what they've left
[TS]
◼
►
behind is this thing that is going to
[TS]
◼
►
percolate along for a few years and then
[TS]
◼
►
the lack of reason for it to be there
[TS]
◼
►
was the lack of soul is going to
[TS]
◼
►
manifest itself and and all the low
[TS]
◼
►
taxes in the world aren't going to
[TS]
◼
►
motivate people to go there because
[TS]
◼
►
there's no because it's a false thing
[TS]
◼
►
it's a you know it's a it's an orlando
[TS]
◼
►
and I mean people are still going to
[TS]
◼
►
orlando but you know is or like its
[TS]
◼
►
course Lando is our limit maybe Orlando
[TS]
◼
►
will be there in five hundred you
[TS]
◼
►
but it's also there's also a myopia it
[TS]
◼
►
seems to me this is this is true of
[TS]
◼
►
people all over the spectrum politically
[TS]
◼
►
but you know there's it'sit's funny idea
[TS]
◼
►
of cause and effect where you can say
[TS]
◼
►
something that is accurate as a true you
[TS]
◼
►
can see something is accurate which is
[TS]
◼
►
you can say you know this sector of the
[TS]
◼
►
economy has created the greatest
[TS]
◼
►
percentage of jobs in the last 15 years
[TS]
◼
►
and you could say something anybody
[TS]
◼
►
could you could look at the actual
[TS]
◼
►
untampered data and say that is
[TS]
◼
►
absolutely true and yet make a decision
[TS]
◼
►
based on that that will have absolutely
[TS]
◼
►
there's absolutely no Karen t let alone
[TS]
◼
►
logic that making a decision based on
[TS]
◼
►
that will reveal the same result
[TS]
◼
►
specifically you could say for example
[TS]
◼
►
you know small businesses have created
[TS]
◼
►
the greatest number of jobs over the
[TS]
◼
►
ok so logically then if you did the
[TS]
◼
►
syllogism if we give lots of money tax
[TS]
◼
►
breaks or incentives to small business
[TS]
◼
►
then lots more jobs should happen and i
[TS]
◼
►
just think that's not how that works i'm
[TS]
◼
►
not saying don't give money to people
[TS]
◼
►
but i'm saying it's such a simplistic
[TS]
◼
►
view of things and you know i don't know
[TS]
◼
►
if it's going to take a super train to
[TS]
◼
►
help people understand how this stuff
[TS]
◼
►
needs to be integrated but my senses
[TS]
◼
►
when you give anybody money they will
[TS]
◼
►
try to spend it on things that benefit
[TS]
◼
►
them they're not interested in your
[TS]
◼
►
conclusions about why that money was a
[TS]
◼
►
good idea money the liquidity of money
[TS]
◼
►
is what allows people to do anything
[TS]
◼
►
with it they could they could spend that
[TS]
◼
►
on you know on on rim jobs and dr.pepper
[TS]
◼
►
you know we're not on Jason from here
[TS]
◼
►
okay i didn't know the dr pepper man
[TS]
◼
►
haha well but that as you say I mean the
[TS]
◼
►
central first of all is that I mean this
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't make any sense when you talk
[TS]
◼
►
about I don't get into the politics of
[TS]
◼
►
this but that I think this is at a
[TS]
◼
►
higher level this is a really really big
[TS]
◼
►
problem unless you're going to do
[TS]
◼
►
something as sweeping as the new deal
[TS]
◼
►
where we basically all agree there are
[TS]
◼
►
some great things that were will be
[TS]
◼
►
built and other things where we just
[TS]
◼
►
need to get money to people and get them
[TS]
◼
►
back to work in a way that will make
[TS]
◼
►
them more dignified and part of the body
[TS]
◼
►
politic again and we'll keep the unions
[TS]
◼
►
did you think I I feel like that and we
[TS]
◼
►
have demonized big government in
[TS]
◼
►
people's minds so much because the
[TS]
◼
►
because what big government represents
[TS]
◼
►
two people is that some bureaucrat is
[TS]
◼
►
going to tell you that you have to hire
[TS]
◼
►
people of a race that you don't admire
[TS]
◼
►
you know like big government to most
[TS]
◼
►
people in America is it is a simple 121
[TS]
◼
►
like you're taking my tax dollars and
[TS]
◼
►
then telling me that my kids have to go
[TS]
◼
►
to school in the worst school in town in
[TS]
◼
►
order to make up for some disadvantage
[TS]
◼
►
that minority kids have their orders
[TS]
◼
►
practical level you have to go hire
[TS]
◼
►
people whether it of any quality where
[TS]
◼
►
people of that particular quality that
[TS]
◼
►
you want to give jobs to there's just
[TS]
◼
►
simply and not not enough people with
[TS]
◼
►
that genetic component that are doing
[TS]
◼
►
what we do we want you we want you to
[TS]
◼
►
hire more physics experts and they
[TS]
◼
►
should be they should be black women or
[TS]
◼
►
they should well first of all let's look
[TS]
◼
►
at how many black women are physicists
[TS]
◼
►
well that might be a different problem
[TS]
◼
►
to solve yeah yeah but it is that social
[TS]
◼
►
engineering component
[TS]
◼
►
however it manifests itself that freaks
[TS]
◼
►
people out that that big government
[TS]
◼
►
particularly in the hands of liberals
[TS]
◼
►
for the last 50 years has engaged in a
[TS]
◼
►
kind of social engineering experiment
[TS]
◼
►
nationwide in a thousand different ways
[TS]
◼
►
and that is the thing that Paul's people
[TS]
◼
►
in basically anywhere outside of San
[TS]
◼
►
Francisco New York LA chicago and
[TS]
◼
►
seattle and well leaving aside whether
[TS]
◼
►
that social engineering experiment has
[TS]
◼
►
merit or is successful that what has
[TS]
◼
►
what has been you know the the baby
[TS]
◼
►
that's been taught tossed out with the
[TS]
◼
►
bathwater there is the idea that there
[TS]
◼
►
would be any organizing principle to the
[TS]
◼
►
way we approach the the development of
[TS]
◼
►
america and you know we built the
[TS]
◼
►
interstate highway system in it and it
[TS]
◼
►
was eisenhower that did it in an
[TS]
◼
►
absolutely socialistic fashion you know
[TS]
◼
►
Eisenhower said we are
[TS]
◼
►
to use eminent domain to go to all of
[TS]
◼
►
the states in the nation and just take
[TS]
◼
►
away land from people and employ
[TS]
◼
►
thousands and thousands of people with
[TS]
◼
►
this disease can be super highways if we
[TS]
◼
►
take that San Francisco the do we never
[TS]
◼
►
see if these curve too much they're
[TS]
◼
►
they're not even gonna be highways let
[TS]
◼
►
me just gonna go although when they were
[TS]
◼
►
building the interstate highways they
[TS]
◼
►
found the the Pennsylvania Turnpike or
[TS]
◼
►
the ohio turnpike one of the two one of
[TS]
◼
►
the first ones that built they built it
[TS]
◼
►
two straight huh
[TS]
◼
►
and people that was just straight for
[TS]
◼
►
200 miles and people fell asleep and
[TS]
◼
►
drive their cars off the road turns out
[TS]
◼
►
and there's a good as they were
[TS]
◼
►
developing the interstate highway system
[TS]
◼
►
they realize that they had to
[TS]
◼
►
manufacture big sweeping curves in the
[TS]
◼
►
roads where there's no reason for it in
[TS]
◼
►
order to keep people's attention for
[TS]
◼
►
enough that they don't crash so that's
[TS]
◼
►
when you drive the highways it's very
[TS]
◼
►
rare except in places like Montana or
[TS]
◼
►
Texas it's very rare that you'll see
[TS]
◼
►
just straight interrupt an interrupted
[TS]
◼
►
right straight for 400 miles you know it
[TS]
◼
►
uh it doesn't happen because they built
[TS]
◼
►
the engineered it took to kind of wind
[TS]
◼
►
its way but anyway what's up
[TS]
◼
►
so what you were talking about which is
[TS]
◼
►
that if you say building like the
[TS]
◼
►
builders are that is a booming sector of
[TS]
◼
►
the economy you and we're not going to
[TS]
◼
►
regulate it because government
[TS]
◼
►
regulation is bad you get places like
[TS]
◼
►
all of florida and nevada where they
[TS]
◼
►
build five houses for every person in
[TS]
◼
►
the town and it's because every one of
[TS]
◼
►
these builders acting independently says
[TS]
◼
►
I gotta get on this train and there's
[TS]
◼
►
nobody at the government level approving
[TS]
◼
►
business permits approving building
[TS]
◼
►
permits who's saying hold on
[TS]
◼
►
600 new McMansions in this area is their
[TS]
◼
►
demand for it is there
[TS]
◼
►
can this town support everybody just
[TS]
◼
►
like well government's got to get out of
[TS]
◼
►
the way because here we come small
[TS]
◼
►
business owners you know small business
[TS]
◼
►
owners have the moral imperative and
[TS]
◼
►
there's no you know this is the thing
[TS]
◼
►
that terrifies libertarians is they
[TS]
◼
►
imagine some some wizard of oz
[TS]
◼
►
bureaucrat sitting behind a curtain
[TS]
◼
►
approving or not approving their
[TS]
◼
►
building permits to put a new bunker on
[TS]
◼
►
their 25 acres and they feel like that
[TS]
◼
►
is that is government intrusion that is
[TS]
◼
►
that is police state ism but if you
[TS]
◼
►
don't have somebody sitting there with a
[TS]
◼
►
rubber stamp saying I'm not approving
[TS]
◼
►
any more building permits for this part
[TS]
◼
►
of the town because because I'm the only
[TS]
◼
►
person in a position to see that we have
[TS]
◼
►
too many houses right now being built
[TS]
◼
►
like we need to put the brakes on this
[TS]
◼
►
then you get these you get this
[TS]
◼
►
development that just goes just wipes up
[TS]
◼
►
the side of a mountain and you've got
[TS]
◼
►
these houses sitting up there and any
[TS]
◼
►
dummy can look at and go
[TS]
◼
►
no one's ever gonna live there like what
[TS]
◼
►
if you get the epilogue in Florida where
[TS]
◼
►
I live so so i was living in that area
[TS]
◼
►
in the mid eighties when I came back
[TS]
◼
►
after college when the economy was in
[TS]
◼
►
the shitter guess what you had you had a
[TS]
◼
►
bunch of uncompleted strip malls yet you
[TS]
◼
►
had that one mall the easy haha what is
[TS]
◼
►
it is a chris rock that says it's all
[TS]
◼
►
like baby clothes you know and greeting
[TS]
◼
►
cards or whatever its but its true like
[TS]
◼
►
that one mall that was barely hanging on
[TS]
◼
►
is gone and now it's you know that
[TS]
◼
►
eventually I think everything what when
[TS]
◼
►
things we stretching more farmers
[TS]
◼
►
markets and and flea markets in places
[TS]
◼
►
that used to be retail stores i think
[TS]
◼
►
that's a pretty good sign that something
[TS]
◼
►
went a little off
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and the solution in most cases the
[TS]
◼
►
the BM the raw capitalist solution to
[TS]
◼
►
that is to go build another strip mall
[TS]
◼
►
in a newer neighborhood you know it is
[TS]
◼
►
not to repurpose that old strip mall
[TS]
◼
►
that's now full of RC modeler stores
[TS]
◼
►
you know it is not to tear down the
[TS]
◼
►
shitty motel style apartment building
[TS]
◼
►
and build build something new there
[TS]
◼
►
rather than tear down the Victorian you
[TS]
◼
►
know the solution is always go build
[TS]
◼
►
another one somewhere else and try and
[TS]
◼
►
you know trying to light the gasoline
[TS]
◼
►
over there so it's going to burn real
[TS]
◼
►
hot and we're going to think we're
[TS]
◼
►
making money we're generating money over
[TS]
◼
►
there and there's just there's no
[TS]
◼
►
collective memory of all these about
[TS]
◼
►
this trail of strip malls it's like them
[TS]
◼
►
it's like the islands of Hawaii if you
[TS]
◼
►
look at Hawaii the reason it looks like
[TS]
◼
►
a like a dragon's tail is that there's a
[TS]
◼
►
hot spot under the ocean and over the
[TS]
◼
►
course of millennia you know the the way
[TS]
◼
►
the shifting crusts under the ocean have
[TS]
◼
►
moved they haven't they moved along this
[TS]
◼
►
hotspot and the hotspot keeps producing
[TS]
◼
►
islands and then the islands move on the
[TS]
◼
►
crust in the wake of this burning you
[TS]
◼
►
know this is burning hole and that
[TS]
◼
►
agenda done yet this is all new to me
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's true of economic development
[TS]
◼
►
to the the burning hole keeps moving in
[TS]
◼
►
are these nail salons and RC modeling
[TS]
◼
►
stores that used to be a little
[TS]
◼
►
boutiques and Starbucks's or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
the starbucks equivalent 40 years ago
[TS]
◼
►
was which was not Orange Julius it was
[TS]
◼
►
stuff seeing stuff that about 40 years
[TS]
◼
►
ago the stuff that would pop up
[TS]
◼
►
yeah what was what was a really nice
[TS]
◼
►
well photo/national photo mats em photo
[TS]
◼
►
places that little Italian restaurant
[TS]
◼
►
like home style italian side like old
[TS]
◼
►
mall or and ya inside of an old like
[TS]
◼
►
mall that front of the highway right
[TS]
◼
►
well i'm thinking yeah we're walking in
[TS]
◼
►
there was a little fountain in the bin
[TS]
◼
►
Laden right where we're kind of a cherub
[TS]
◼
►
had some water coming out of his penis
[TS]
◼
►
it's not you know there's probably so
[TS]
◼
►
many things senior theses about this
[TS]
◼
►
that I'll never read but I have to admit
[TS]
◼
►
I am really fascinated by what happens
[TS]
◼
►
to a mall in particular as it goes down
[TS]
◼
►
because there's always there's always
[TS]
◼
►
ok so in Cincinnati we had northgate
[TS]
◼
►
mall and northgate mall was probably not
[TS]
◼
►
the first that was one of the first like
[TS]
◼
►
enclosed malls in the United States as
[TS]
◼
►
far yeah also has a northgate mall
[TS]
◼
►
interesting give a westfield mall we do
[TS]
◼
►
have a westfield mall
[TS]
◼
►
I think we have a self game all ends up
[TS]
◼
►
with this update in itself center or
[TS]
◼
►
southcenter but you know it starts out
[TS]
◼
►
and everything's glitzy and I remember
[TS]
◼
►
as a kid you remember this you go to the
[TS]
◼
►
mall as a kid and they have fountains
[TS]
◼
►
that worked inside the mountain
[TS]
◼
►
yeah inside my head the mountain inside
[TS]
◼
►
the inside the mall but then also they
[TS]
◼
►
would have car shows and van shows and
[TS]
◼
►
clearwater mall in clearwater florida i
[TS]
◼
►
remember at one point was the my
[TS]
◼
►
grandfather knew this exactly including
[TS]
◼
►
the asterisks but it was the single
[TS]
◼
►
largest mall under one roof in the
[TS]
◼
►
united states and was huge two-story
[TS]
◼
►
mall before these things were had really
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but you know I remember going there
[TS]
◼
►
there's a custom van show remember
[TS]
◼
►
seeing one called the dreamweaver with a
[TS]
◼
►
guy for Weaver on repeat
[TS]
◼
►
oh yeah remember remember the Pinto
[TS]
◼
►
wagon that had a that had a little
[TS]
◼
►
circular window in the back of the
[TS]
◼
►
window a bubble window Allah Allah
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and the you would get open the
[TS]
◼
►
tailgate on this Pinto wagon and the
[TS]
◼
►
inside of the wagon was all plush carpet
[TS]
◼
►
this is the thing these shows and zone
[TS]
◼
►
out so sexy and I remember one time they
[TS]
◼
►
had a thing about the stuff from the
[TS]
◼
►
future they had a house of the future
[TS]
◼
►
that looks like a UFO and then it starts
[TS]
◼
►
slidin down you know I'm pretty soon
[TS]
◼
►
you've got a bit worried whether used to
[TS]
◼
►
be like Sheila toes or McAlpin's now
[TS]
◼
►
you've got like a pantry pride that's
[TS]
◼
►
what I'm stride oh that's when you know
[TS]
◼
►
that but you know it's funny look at our
[TS]
◼
►
mall arm all i think is whistling past
[TS]
◼
►
the graveyard right now we are you
[TS]
◼
►
notice on the caravan their mothers the
[TS]
◼
►
mall where the apple store is about
[TS]
◼
►
almost exactly a mile south of where we
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and and used to be walk through
[TS]
◼
►
there and see how many places were empty
[TS]
◼
►
first I understand how you can have like
[TS]
◼
►
40 shoe stores in the mall I still
[TS]
◼
►
understand that but i guess there must
[TS]
◼
►
be a reason that they stay alive
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly there's more places like hot
[TS]
◼
►
topic there's more places like these
[TS]
◼
►
high volume younger people kind of
[TS]
◼
►
places there's tons of phone kiosks and
[TS]
◼
►
but you know what they do now is when
[TS]
◼
►
the place is empty remember how it used
[TS]
◼
►
to be they would just have like like a
[TS]
◼
►
big boarded-up thing
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and then the board of thing becomes
[TS]
◼
►
something where they like Drew giant
[TS]
◼
►
people on it that's right a big mural or
[TS]
◼
►
they dropped they'd say this space
[TS]
◼
►
available now people carrying shopping
[TS]
◼
►
bags now think they light it up and kind
[TS]
◼
►
of make it look like it's a store and
[TS]
◼
►
they they did you know and the things if
[TS]
◼
►
you look twice at it you'd realize that
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's it's like staging a model home
[TS]
◼
►
really it's a dummy store it's not if
[TS]
◼
►
you look at it obviously you can't walk
[TS]
◼
►
in but I think they're trying to avoid
[TS]
◼
►
the missing teeth that those kinds of
[TS]
◼
►
places created a mock because i'm gonna
[TS]
◼
►
bet you for a middle aged person walking
[TS]
◼
►
into a mall with a lot of stories that
[TS]
◼
►
you know what I mean it feels handle it
[TS]
◼
►
feels like urban or the physics suburban
[TS]
◼
►
retail blight sure like it seems like
[TS]
◼
►
the Warriors yeah absolutely
[TS]
◼
►
come out and play unless you're i'm
[TS]
◼
►
going to bed on you can open but you
[TS]
◼
►
know that the what you're describing
[TS]
◼
►
also though is like that you know to get
[TS]
◼
►
into all the infrastructure of what it
[TS]
◼
►
takes two to do any of those things and
[TS]
◼
►
like you know are we can have the
[TS]
◼
►
capacity i'm guessing for things like
[TS]
◼
►
you know garbage and water and public
[TS]
◼
►
transit and stop lights and all the
[TS]
◼
►
kinds of things we had a friend in when
[TS]
◼
►
i was when i was a in junior high who
[TS]
◼
►
was the county Administrator I don't use
[TS]
◼
►
a rock-and-roll county administrator but
[TS]
◼
►
he was a county administrator for pasco
[TS]
◼
►
county and he wouldn't just out of
[TS]
◼
►
nowhere sometimes he would drop these
[TS]
◼
►
fascinating facts and you and you know i
[TS]
◼
►
was saying one day I was helping him
[TS]
◼
►
school helping him split some logs i
[TS]
◼
►
think for you know four dollars are
[TS]
◼
►
that's what she called a flourish it did
[TS]
◼
►
you grow up in Indiana and made 1850
[TS]
◼
►
Illinois and down
[TS]
◼
►
I grew up in formaldehyde house but I
[TS]
◼
►
said southern yeah you know it's really
[TS]
◼
►
crazy over there by southgate mall it's
[TS]
◼
►
really not so you know there should be a
[TS]
◼
►
stoplight there is what can you do about
[TS]
◼
►
that Gallagher can you get a John
[TS]
◼
►
Gallagher can you get a stop light over
[TS]
◼
►
there said you know what I think what he
[TS]
◼
►
said with you know what it cost to put
[TS]
◼
►
in a stop sign somewhere
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and i forget i think the stoplight
[TS]
◼
►
in 1980 and he said any stop by starts
[TS]
◼
►
at forty thousand dollars
[TS]
◼
►
yeah um which I metal from remembering
[TS]
◼
►
that right but what I do remember is
[TS]
◼
►
when he told me what it cost to put a
[TS]
◼
►
stop light or a stop sign was like over
[TS]
◼
►
a thousand dollars or something but it
[TS]
◼
►
was one of those things where was a real
[TS]
◼
►
wake-up call to me because I just always
[TS]
◼
►
assume that there was a warehouse
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere full of entirely modern
[TS]
◼
►
stoplights and I got to do some couple
[TS]
◼
►
guys over there and put it up just a
[TS]
◼
►
couple guys that changes everything if
[TS]
◼
►
you're doing that on US 19 and you put
[TS]
◼
►
in a new stoplight with the with it with
[TS]
◼
►
it with al and green arrow and stuff
[TS]
◼
►
that changes so many yeah
[TS]
◼
►
butterfly effect Apple absolutely right
[TS]
◼
►
now they're building a new subway line
[TS]
◼
►
that goes to chinatown and stockton
[TS]
◼
►
street is like upside-down it's
[TS]
◼
►
completely upside down and try to
[TS]
◼
►
explain to my daughter who just mainly
[TS]
◼
►
want to go to disney store and have me
[TS]
◼
►
shut up that the knock-on effect of
[TS]
◼
►
closing the street for four years
[TS]
◼
►
like what that's going to mean to the
[TS]
◼
►
economy for the been for the was not Ben
[TS]
◼
►
Davis been with the shirt store
[TS]
◼
►
Ben Ben Ben Gurion david ben-gurion
[TS]
◼
►
store to keep in been than her
[TS]
◼
►
Allah Allah main yeah I don't know yeah
[TS]
◼
►
well I that the the thing about local
[TS]
◼
►
government you know city government
[TS]
◼
►
county government these guys are trying
[TS]
◼
►
to balance all these factors all these
[TS]
◼
►
things are happening and we interact
[TS]
◼
►
with their decisions mostly on the level
[TS]
◼
►
of why is the street closed
[TS]
◼
►
why is there not a blank here you know
[TS]
◼
►
why is there not a stop sign at this
[TS]
◼
►
intersection who and why why is there
[TS]
◼
►
never a cop when I can find one you know
[TS]
◼
►
the these and and everyone so while our
[TS]
◼
►
garbage doesn't get picked up and were
[TS]
◼
►
like goddamn City Hall but these people
[TS]
◼
►
who are working in local governments are
[TS]
◼
►
trying to you know trying to put out
[TS]
◼
►
fires but also trying to try to envision
[TS]
◼
►
the big picture of the development of
[TS]
◼
►
their region and this argument that were
[TS]
◼
►
having as a country
[TS]
◼
►
this big government versus you know
[TS]
◼
►
capitalism argument like it it
[TS]
◼
►
fundamentally doesn't interest me
[TS]
◼
►
because it's fundamentally not the art
[TS]
◼
►
it's not working with the right argument
[TS]
◼
►
it's the wrong argument like at a
[TS]
◼
►
certain point unless you are an
[TS]
◼
►
apocalyptic thinker who believes that
[TS]
◼
►
the day that you die the world stops
[TS]
◼
►
existing and I think a lot of people
[TS]
◼
►
live this one that's a really good point
[TS]
◼
►
i don't know their life such as sad way
[TS]
◼
►
to put it but I think you're absolutely
[TS]
◼
►
yeah they either because they think
[TS]
◼
►
they're going to heaven or because they
[TS]
◼
►
just have never thought beyond
[TS]
◼
►
themselves but a lot of people just are
[TS]
◼
►
like what are you talking about a
[TS]
◼
►
hundred years from now there is no such
[TS]
◼
►
thing i'm not going to be here so why
[TS]
◼
►
would it matter but without that kind of
[TS]
◼
►
thinking and that kind of thinking is
[TS]
◼
►
not inherently it's there's nothing
[TS]
◼
►
intrinsically hostile to capitalism
[TS]
◼
►
about it but it does and I understand
[TS]
◼
►
people's suspicions that those that
[TS]
◼
►
because this is that this is the famous
[TS]
◼
►
refrain of libertarians when you say
[TS]
◼
►
listen somebody needs to decide how many
[TS]
◼
►
houses are going to build we get built
[TS]
◼
►
in las vegas nevada this year
[TS]
◼
►
it can't be unlimited number of houses
[TS]
◼
►
you know we can't we can't let that the
[TS]
◼
►
number of houses built in Las Vegas be
[TS]
◼
►
determined just by how many houses we
[TS]
◼
►
can possibly build this year the
[TS]
◼
►
Libertarians will instantly say well who
[TS]
◼
►
decides who gets to decide about people
[TS]
◼
►
who understand the problem well and the
[TS]
◼
►
implication is that it's someone
[TS]
◼
►
qualified you know the implication is
[TS]
◼
►
that that decision is going to be made
[TS]
◼
►
by by some bureaucrat with a degree in
[TS]
◼
►
sociology from a local community college
[TS]
◼
►
who's going to sit there and smirk at
[TS]
◼
►
them as they give as they decline their
[TS]
◼
►
building permit you know and that is
[TS]
◼
►
such a pervasive attitude and it's it's
[TS]
◼
►
a funny thing when you think about how
[TS]
◼
►
politics and in in America and in a lot
[TS]
◼
►
where most people's political awareness
[TS]
◼
►
is at the level of they go to the DMV
[TS]
◼
►
and they have a bad experience and it
[TS]
◼
►
radical Isis that they become anti
[TS]
◼
►
government because they went to the DMV
[TS]
◼
►
and somebody there was rude to them and
[TS]
◼
►
charge them what they think is an unfair
[TS]
◼
►
amount for their tabs and that's the
[TS]
◼
►
that is the depth of their political
[TS]
◼
►
experience they have a they don't have
[TS]
◼
►
any interaction with with government
[TS]
◼
►
other than getting pulled over by the
[TS]
◼
►
cops having to wait in line at the DMV
[TS]
◼
►
and what the guy comes into their yard
[TS]
◼
►
to read their meter you know that's the
[TS]
◼
►
extent of their contact and a few
[TS]
◼
►
negative experiences it radicalize
[TS]
◼
►
people for life because they picture
[TS]
◼
►
Congress or a picture the people at that
[TS]
◼
►
City Hall and they imagine it's just a
[TS]
◼
►
giant DMV full of likes of like smog
[TS]
◼
►
lazy people with whom most of them
[TS]
◼
►
probably have an agenda smug lazy people
[TS]
◼
►
who whether they have an agenda they
[TS]
◼
►
certainly have tenure they're not going
[TS]
◼
►
to get fired they are you know they're
[TS]
◼
►
part of a they're part of a city union
[TS]
◼
►
or government union and they have that
[TS]
◼
►
kind of Union smugness and so people you
[TS]
◼
►
know people think when they at when
[TS]
◼
►
libertarians ask that question who
[TS]
◼
►
decides what their picturing is a DMV
[TS]
◼
►
and what the country needs or what how
[TS]
◼
►
the way we need to think is well yeah
[TS]
◼
►
that's a good question who decides and
[TS]
◼
►
it's not it isn't the question isn't
[TS]
◼
►
answered just by asking it in a snare
[TS]
◼
►
eway like yeah who decides let's pick
[TS]
◼
►
somebody you know I mean do we want
[TS]
◼
►
do we want to basically that's asking do
[TS]
◼
►
we want another layer of government but
[TS]
◼
►
it's a but it is a it's a valid question
[TS]
◼
►
we need we cannot because the mayor has
[TS]
◼
►
to run around town you showing up at
[TS]
◼
►
bake sales and stuff
[TS]
◼
►
mayor does not have the time to sit at a
[TS]
◼
►
long table with his council of elders
[TS]
◼
►
and consider these things but every city
[TS]
◼
►
needs a philosopher you know every city
[TS]
◼
►
needs a almost like an existential
[TS]
◼
►
project manager excited that you can
[TS]
◼
►
develop of developments are because
[TS]
◼
►
cities are all about development the
[TS]
◼
►
question the question of cities and the
[TS]
◼
►
question of america is really a question
[TS]
◼
►
of development people
[TS]
◼
►
of development people
[TS]
◼
►
owned property they want the right to
[TS]
◼
►
develop and how they want but our mutual
[TS]
◼
►
depends on occasionally people being
[TS]
◼
►
disappointed because you can't always
[TS]
◼
►
just do what you want if we're going to
[TS]
◼
►
have cities that are coherent you know
[TS]
◼
►
if our lives are going to be coherent
[TS]
◼
►
not everybody gets to do exactly what
[TS]
◼
►
they want all the time and just one
[TS]
◼
►
question as far as development does that
[TS]
◼
►
also under that rubric you you would
[TS]
◼
►
also include things like infrastructure
[TS]
◼
►
upkeep maintenance fixing the sidewalks
[TS]
◼
►
all that incredibly boring and
[TS]
◼
►
ridiculously costly stuff that's that
[TS]
◼
►
all factors into the the development
[TS]
◼
►
issue right absolutely and there are
[TS]
◼
►
times and this is the this is the thing
[TS]
◼
►
about taxes like the the water that we
[TS]
◼
►
get out of our tap in seattle is coming
[TS]
◼
►
through pipes that come all the way down
[TS]
◼
►
from the mountains for you know hundreds
[TS]
◼
►
of miles these pipes and they were laid
[TS]
◼
►
a hundred years ago or more by teams of
[TS]
◼
►
men with shovel shovels and donkeys and
[TS]
◼
►
some of these pipes I swear to you are
[TS]
◼
►
made out of cedar I'm not kidding you're
[TS]
◼
►
making that up there are water there are
[TS]
◼
►
giant water mains in washington state
[TS]
◼
►
that are made out of cedar and then a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of them that are made out of iron
[TS]
◼
►
and and whatever else and at a certain
[TS]
◼
►
point you need you're gonna need to
[TS]
◼
►
modernize those systems you know when we
[TS]
◼
►
went when I bought this house when my
[TS]
◼
►
mom bought her house one of the first
[TS]
◼
►
things we did was we dug up the rusting
[TS]
◼
►
iron water main that went out to the
[TS]
◼
►
street and replaced it with it with a
[TS]
◼
►
new you know sadly PVC water made but we
[TS]
◼
►
only went out to the street the water
[TS]
◼
►
man that runs under the sidewalk is
[TS]
◼
►
whose responsibility it's only the
[TS]
◼
►
cities and as you follow that back to
[TS]
◼
►
the Giant you know the cedar tube that
[TS]
◼
►
you could run a super train through that
[TS]
◼
►
is buried basically under the street two
[TS]
◼
►
blocks from my house
[TS]
◼
►
um what do you do when that went up when
[TS]
◼
►
that springs a leak you know it isn't
[TS]
◼
►
you cannot you cannot talk about taxes
[TS]
◼
►
you can't talk about development without
[TS]
◼
►
understanding that this that all of our
[TS]
◼
►
cities are built they were built at a
[TS]
◼
►
time when a guy with a cigar and a
[TS]
◼
►
handlebar mustache said build a pipe do
[TS]
◼
►
it and people did it he did not have to
[TS]
◼
►
get he did not have to get approval from
[TS]
◼
►
seven different city agencies because
[TS]
◼
►
they didn't exist yet but now when that
[TS]
◼
►
thing when that thing fails it's all of
[TS]
◼
►
our responsibilities and and more to the
[TS]
◼
►
point like what do I mean this is the
[TS]
◼
►
public transit question it's like we're
[TS]
◼
►
not building public transit for now we
[TS]
◼
►
we're always building public transit for
[TS]
◼
►
40 years from now and has to be kind of
[TS]
◼
►
essay and tech forward compatible right
[TS]
◼
►
and if you if you if you put it up to a
[TS]
◼
►
public referendum and you say hey
[TS]
◼
►
everybody out there to take a second
[TS]
◼
►
like mute your televisions for a second
[TS]
◼
►
and let's think about what this city is
[TS]
◼
►
going to look like in 40 years and how
[TS]
◼
►
transit is going to interact with it who
[TS]
◼
►
is it who even needs their television
[TS]
◼
►
not nobody does they're all like
[TS]
◼
►
how.what blue somebody has to be looking
[TS]
◼
►
at that and and and making and somebody
[TS]
◼
►
has to be looking at that empowered to
[TS]
◼
►
make decisions because we have people
[TS]
◼
►
looking at it we have transit committees
[TS]
◼
►
who look at them they're like well this
[TS]
◼
►
is what we have to do but they're not
[TS]
◼
►
empowered they all they can do is kind
[TS]
◼
►
of Limp forward with their project and
[TS]
◼
►
try and convince the
[TS]
◼
►
the four percent of the population that
[TS]
◼
►
reads the newspaper still and then just
[TS]
◼
►
hope that the rest of the people are too
[TS]
◼
►
confused to read the ballot initiative
[TS]
◼
►
properly i mean that's that's why they
[TS]
◼
►
have valid initiatives are are phrased
[TS]
◼
►
so convoluted li-like vote yes on no to
[TS]
◼
►
the gas project to the double negative
[TS]
◼
►
active and the funny part is you can
[TS]
◼
►
when you watch like the the local you
[TS]
◼
►
know planning meetings or anything like
[TS]
◼
►
that on on those weird cable stations
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but I see this is I I'm really like
[TS]
◼
►
to come back to this i would like to
[TS]
◼
►
consider nominating you to be the
[TS]
◼
►
bizarre it for these things I'd like you
[TS]
◼
►
to control others are well I mean this
[TS]
◼
►
is clearly you need that here's the
[TS]
◼
►
thing like in england right you've got a
[TS]
◼
►
queen and you gotta prime minister i
[TS]
◼
►
think they think you know what I mean
[TS]
◼
►
you got somebody is therefore the Syrian
[TS]
◼
►
ceremonial stuff you might even said
[TS]
◼
►
that the Prime Minister of England is a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit of a queen
[TS]
◼
►
oh no you did it you are putting yeah
[TS]
◼
►
you know you got somebody who's there to
[TS]
◼
►
make the tube run on time
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and and then you need a Unitas are
[TS]
◼
►
you know what i mean but yeah I am
[TS]
◼
►
this is why Bloomberg has been such a
[TS]
◼
►
successful mayor of New York is that
[TS]
◼
►
Bloomberg and Bloomberg has enough has
[TS]
◼
►
had enough success running that city and
[TS]
◼
►
with enough like innovative ideas that
[TS]
◼
►
he despite the fact that he's a
[TS]
◼
►
Republican in an overwhelmingly
[TS]
◼
►
Democratic City people have embraced him
[TS]
◼
►
and despite the fact that he is a little
[TS]
◼
►
Imperial people are like yeah okay but
[TS]
◼
►
he you know he's he's doing some pretty
[TS]
◼
►
cool stuff and so people give him the
[TS]
◼
►
leeway this whole like outlawing soda
[TS]
◼
►
pops that are bigger than 16 ounces
[TS]
◼
►
thing whoever not even Giuliani would
[TS]
◼
►
have would have attempted such a such a
[TS]
◼
►
nanny state initiative
[TS]
◼
►
uh-huh but but Bloomberg succeeded by
[TS]
◼
►
precisely yes you can buy to you can
[TS]
◼
►
carry around a 32 ounce cup and x 2 16
[TS]
◼
►
ounce pops and the green way to do it
[TS]
◼
►
that is the you know that's hacking that
[TS]
◼
►
that's how can be actually marine life
[TS]
◼
►
right you know what I think when I New
[TS]
◼
►
York is one of those places when I stand
[TS]
◼
►
there and i imagine it when i look at
[TS]
◼
►
the geography of Manhattan Island and I
[TS]
◼
►
imagine what if New York was built like
[TS]
◼
►
London what if New York was built like
[TS]
◼
►
you originally was which was twisty
[TS]
◼
►
windy streets that conform to the more
[TS]
◼
►
or less to the geography of the land
[TS]
◼
►
k imagine manhattan island without the
[TS]
◼
►
crisscrossing right angle boulevards if
[TS]
◼
►
if Manhattan had just been developed
[TS]
◼
►
like London just go trails and twisting
[TS]
◼
►
little roads I mean you could say oh it
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't have prospered like it has but
[TS]
◼
►
London has prospered who London is a
[TS]
◼
►
major city of the world and there are
[TS]
◼
►
not two streets running parallel in the
[TS]
◼
►
what if New York had not been greeted
[TS]
◼
►
you try to imagine the try to imagine
[TS]
◼
►
the city that same way or you know like
[TS]
◼
►
because because the geography of
[TS]
◼
►
America's it's pretty interesting
[TS]
◼
►
certainly as you move up the island
[TS]
◼
►
uh-huh if you had little twisty windy at
[TS]
◼
►
skyline with sure look different now
[TS]
◼
►
from what i can tell you why but I also
[TS]
◼
►
imagined there'd be just fewer
[TS]
◼
►
skyscrapers in general yeah there would
[TS]
◼
►
be if for no other reason than it would
[TS]
◼
►
be really hard to close off this you
[TS]
◼
►
know you know seven-eighths of the
[TS]
◼
►
circle ish area and they got a six-block
[TS]
◼
►
area is going to be closed for walkers
[TS]
◼
►
were doing this the crane goes here
[TS]
◼
►
you know I mean yeah well maybe it
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't be a skyscraper city would look
[TS]
◼
►
like Greenwich Village the whole place
[TS]
◼
►
um but every once awhile when I'm there
[TS]
◼
►
I'll stop in union square something and
[TS]
◼
►
trying to Train hover and get the get
[TS]
◼
►
and be like why would that be don't be
[TS]
◼
►
so weird it would seem so much less
[TS]
◼
►
metropolitan yeah although London does
[TS]
◼
►
not lack metropolitan tennety if it's
[TS]
◼
►
weird in my head that grid is any1 in
[TS]
◼
►
New York maybe four times but it's York
[TS]
◼
►
City but like that greatness that George
[TS]
◼
►
Gershwin but then you kind of like
[TS]
◼
►
criticism that's what it feels like it
[TS]
◼
►
ya know that it's it's it's just a it's
[TS]
◼
►
just a fantasy fantasy thinking because
[TS]
◼
►
of course like it wouldn't be newer
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't be Priscilla put up with that
[TS]
◼
►
can imagine cabbies having to deal with
[TS]
◼
►
well that that that is I mean I've
[TS]
◼
►
driven I've driven in london in the you
[TS]
◼
►
know in the center of the city many
[TS]
◼
►
times over the years powerful it is
[TS]
◼
►
minutes that's crazy-making and the
[TS]
◼
►
people that live there i think even
[TS]
◼
►
people who live there the whole life
[TS]
◼
►
still appreciate that it is crazy isn't
[TS]
◼
►
room like that too is around pretty
[TS]
◼
►
crazy to drive it well
[TS]
◼
►
Rome is crazy to drive and not just for
[TS]
◼
►
that reason but also because people it's
[TS]
◼
►
in Italy it is driving in Rome is like
[TS]
◼
►
driving in Cairo
[TS]
◼
►
I mean there's no there's no serbia
[TS]
◼
►
there's no other way to put it it's just
[TS]
◼
►
like a that's the fucks about slots and
[TS]
◼
►
you know people driving on the sidewalks
[TS]
◼
►
and it's just I just AM cabins that was
[TS]
◼
►
a thousand times did a quick google map
[TS]
◼
►
search on how far away my water is I
[TS]
◼
►
just I just made himself a few minutes
[TS]
◼
►
ago at one point that water was a
[TS]
◼
►
hundred and eighty nine miles away from
[TS]
◼
►
here the water that you are drinking in
[TS]
◼
►
San Francisco it comes from a place if I
[TS]
◼
►
drove there we take 24 hours to get to
[TS]
◼
►
wear my water comes from ya think about
[TS]
◼
►
how long it takes the water to make that
[TS]
◼
►
trip like the Sun or something for some
[TS]
◼
►
reason and I you know so there's a
[TS]
◼
►
thread that runs through a lot of what
[TS]
◼
►
you're saying i think which is that most
[TS]
◼
►
of just don't really understand how the
[TS]
◼
►
sausage gets made
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah yeahs understand on our soap
[TS]
◼
►
boxes and screaming child I mean people
[TS]
◼
►
were screaming at me on twitter
[TS]
◼
►
yesterday because because they've been
[TS]
◼
►
to the DMV that's all that that is the
[TS]
◼
►
autonomy that's like all they need is
[TS]
◼
►
the nose that's all they need to
[TS]
◼
►
understand everything about how
[TS]
◼
►
government works is this certainly women
[TS]
◼
►
woman with lots of you know longevity
[TS]
◼
►
performance badges who's not going to do
[TS]
◼
►
something that seems very simple to you
[TS]
◼
►
that's emblematic that becomes the whole
[TS]
◼
►
thing that don't you think yeah
[TS]
◼
►
absolutely ended and it's a question of
[TS]
◼
►
you get your tax bill and it seems
[TS]
◼
►
unfair and you go that's not right and
[TS]
◼
►
that is the depth of your analysis like
[TS]
◼
►
the tax bill seems unfair and it's not
[TS]
◼
►
right because that money is being wasted
[TS]
◼
►
and now i'm outraged and no one that it
[TS]
◼
►
is so unusual that a person even though
[TS]
◼
►
even a liberal who's like well I pay my
[TS]
◼
►
taxes happily you know investigating
[TS]
◼
►
exactly how your tax money is spent on
[TS]
◼
►
what is fascinating and you get to the
[TS]
◼
►
point where you're like my tax bill came
[TS]
◼
►
what am I gonna find you know what what
[TS]
◼
►
am I going to discover in it now you
[TS]
◼
►
know there are so I'm there there is
[TS]
◼
►
plenty of waste for sure in government
[TS]
◼
►
but they're trying to do so much you
[TS]
◼
►
know government is trying to do so much
[TS]
◼
►
and if all you have to do is go to a
[TS]
◼
►
place like Bulgaria where the government
[TS]
◼
►
is trying to do a lot of things and not
[TS]
◼
►
100-percent making it happen not
[TS]
◼
►
penetrating all the little places you
[TS]
◼
►
know and you're you're walking around
[TS]
◼
►
the city and you're like I mean this is
[TS]
◼
►
a thing that no one in America has ever
[TS]
◼
►
experienced but if you are in Eastern
[TS]
◼
►
Europe and walking down the street you
[TS]
◼
►
you see missing manhole covers right
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you know well why do you never see
[TS]
◼
►
that in America because that if a
[TS]
◼
►
manhole cover went missing it would be
[TS]
◼
►
replaced in two seconds
[TS]
◼
►
there is no such thing as a missing
[TS]
◼
►
manhole cover even in America even in
[TS]
◼
►
even in the most bombed out city here
[TS]
◼
►
there is enough government to keep that
[TS]
◼
►
and we're like you wouldn't just drive
[TS]
◼
►
off like if they're building or like
[TS]
◼
►
repairing some part of the highway you
[TS]
◼
►
would never just drive off an OP like an
[TS]
◼
►
off-ramp they just stopped in midair
[TS]
◼
►
right right i just got to put up with
[TS]
◼
►
yeah there's always I mean and at the
[TS]
◼
►
other day my mom was driving down the
[TS]
◼
►
street and they're building their
[TS]
◼
►
building some public transit here in
[TS]
◼
►
Seattle that was conceived by committee
[TS]
◼
►
approved approved by a committee that
[TS]
◼
►
was trying to appeal to 15 different
[TS]
◼
►
constituencies so that there is not
[TS]
◼
►
there was not a very good idea
[TS]
◼
►
like if you look at the town you look at
[TS]
◼
►
how it's going to develop over the next
[TS]
◼
►
40 years the train should have gone XYZ
[TS]
◼
►
but they put the train in you know XP l
[TS]
◼
►
because they had to go by P because
[TS]
◼
►
that's the hospital and that's a big
[TS]
◼
►
constituencies you have to go have the
[TS]
◼
►
train go by the hospital and you know
[TS]
◼
►
and it would be too difficult to to turn
[TS]
◼
►
the train around over here anyway they
[TS]
◼
►
they're there they're building what is
[TS]
◼
►
what is a good thing and they're
[TS]
◼
►
building a dumb way because there wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
somebody with the power sitting in the
[TS]
◼
►
big chair to say it's got to go here
[TS]
◼
►
I'm sorry if that disappoints people but
[TS]
◼
►
really this is how this is how it should
[TS]
◼
►
look anyway so they're building this
[TS]
◼
►
thing and so we've got the streets all
[TS]
◼
►
torn up and there's traffic backed up 42
[TS]
◼
►
miles along Broadway and my mom is
[TS]
◼
►
sitting at this traffic light and
[TS]
◼
►
there's a cop there and the cop is
[TS]
◼
►
ostensibly directing traffic but the
[TS]
◼
►
cops got one hand in his pocket and he's
[TS]
◼
►
just kind of standing there like a dope
[TS]
◼
►
and every once in a while somebody gets
[TS]
◼
►
in the wrong lane or has his turn signal
[TS]
◼
►
on in a way the cup doesn't like in the
[TS]
◼
►
cop Connie you know will yell at the
[TS]
◼
►
other guy like keep moving or something
[TS]
◼
►
like that but my mom looks at that cop
[TS]
◼
►
and what she sees in his place is a
[TS]
◼
►
vigorous traffic directing police
[TS]
◼
►
officer was like come on let's go let's
[TS]
◼
►
go you know one of those guys that you
[TS]
◼
►
see in Manhattan
[TS]
◼
►
we've got a whistle and is just clenched
[TS]
◼
►
in his teeth like the model the model of
[TS]
◼
►
already this guy who's like I'm in
[TS]
◼
►
charge of this intersection if nothing
[TS]
◼
►
else if nothing else in my life if my
[TS]
◼
►
wife doesn't love me if my kids don't
[TS]
◼
►
listen to me i'm in charge of this
[TS]
◼
►
fucking intersection right now and I
[TS]
◼
►
want you to go now go now you twit go
[TS]
◼
►
okay stop now you go and what that
[TS]
◼
►
intersection needed what the city of
[TS]
◼
►
seattle needed in that moment was that
[TS]
◼
►
cop the cop who had a whistle in his
[TS]
◼
►
teeth and he was he owned that
[TS]
◼
►
intersection that's a different from the
[TS]
◼
►
attitude of a fireman is getting at it
[TS]
◼
►
getting you out of the building next to
[TS]
◼
►
the one that's burning right you don't
[TS]
◼
►
again got clarity of thinking ahead like
[TS]
◼
►
everybody else in here is going to be
[TS]
◼
►
thinking about what's going on and what
[TS]
◼
►
they're going to have for dinner and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
gonna stand here and every one of you is
[TS]
◼
►
going to in an orderly way you're all
[TS]
◼
►
gonna go through that door and get out
[TS]
◼
►
go go go go and I don't have time to
[TS]
◼
►
explain this to you
[TS]
◼
►
so my mom is sitting at this
[TS]
◼
►
intersection and she's looking at this
[TS]
◼
►
cop and she's like the city isn't
[TS]
◼
►
the government isn't working and you
[TS]
◼
►
know my mom has has a long view but her
[TS]
◼
►
relationship to the police department in
[TS]
◼
►
seattle is is very is very much like my
[TS]
◼
►
mom is very she sends a lot of anonymous
[TS]
◼
►
angry letters precinct so she's she's
[TS]
◼
►
got her own own little bitter rolodex of
[TS]
◼
►
exactly how it should go to she takes
[TS]
◼
►
people's badge numbers Oh gotta respect
[TS]
◼
►
that and she writes down this actually
[TS]
◼
►
follows through she follows through yeah
[TS]
◼
►
she's trying to she's not she doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
let the cops off the hook at all but so
[TS]
◼
►
she's sitting at this intersection she's
[TS]
◼
►
like what the fuck is wrong with this
[TS]
◼
►
what is wrong with the culture of the
[TS]
◼
►
police department that this police
[TS]
◼
►
person does not have the does not have
[TS]
◼
►
that the energy to actually be directing
[TS]
◼
►
traffic here and she's looking up the
[TS]
◼
►
street and looking down the street and
[TS]
◼
►
she's like this is affecting this is
[TS]
◼
►
going to affect traffic in seattle all
[TS]
◼
►
day because it had its having a it's
[TS]
◼
►
having a a reverberatory affect all
[TS]
◼
►
through the town
[TS]
◼
►
and it's all on this guy who's who is
[TS]
◼
►
taking a lazy a fair attitude to his job
[TS]
◼
►
here you know and and and honestly if I
[TS]
◼
►
was that cop supervisor and drove
[TS]
◼
►
through there and there was nobody
[TS]
◼
►
blocking the intersection and nobody
[TS]
◼
►
lying dead on the street you know yeah
[TS]
◼
►
he's doing his job but he's not he's not
[TS]
◼
►
doing is not really doing the job but
[TS]
◼
►
what you think about all these guys that
[TS]
◼
►
came it came to Seattle today to drop
[TS]
◼
►
off a bale hay at somebody's kiddie ride
[TS]
◼
►
and they're driving a dually diesel
[TS]
◼
►
dodge pickup truck and they're headed
[TS]
◼
►
back out to their ranch in yakima and
[TS]
◼
►
they're waiting at this intersection and
[TS]
◼
►
you know you hear these people talk all
[TS]
◼
►
the time they're like I've never live in
[TS]
◼
►
Seattle hell no although you know just a
[TS]
◼
►
bunch of there's a bunch of animals who
[TS]
◼
►
and that's that guy's that's that guy's
[TS]
◼
►
experience of Seattle this is hard
[TS]
◼
►
he's got your card yeah he's watching
[TS]
◼
►
she's watching that cop and he thinks
[TS]
◼
►
this is bullshit and he is and his vote
[TS]
◼
►
counts the same as mine about whether
[TS]
◼
►
Seattle gets the tax money to put in
[TS]
◼
►
high-speed public transit or to replace
[TS]
◼
►
our water mains and he's sitting out
[TS]
◼
►
there you know in the same county i live
[TS]
◼
►
in but he's going well you know that
[TS]
◼
►
money is just wasted who decides it's
[TS]
◼
►
just some just some bureaucrat but yeah
[TS]
◼
►
you're onto something that's a theory
[TS]
◼
►
I've been trying to bubble around in my
[TS]
◼
►
head for a while and it's nothing
[TS]
◼
►
particularly new or unique but I think
[TS]
◼
►
in example like that it's that is pretty
[TS]
◼
►
close to a template for how millions of
[TS]
◼
►
interactions go down every day and you
[TS]
◼
►
can certainly see the results of this on
[TS]
◼
►
the internet once you're aware of this
[TS]
◼
►
pattern listeners you you may see this
[TS]
◼
►
more so you know it's it's it's kind of
[TS]
◼
►
a shadow of like how cognitive
[TS]
◼
►
behavioral therapy works in some ways
[TS]
◼
►
but more like awful and distorted way
[TS]
◼
►
something happens in the world and that
[TS]
◼
►
could be Leslie so you know you're the
[TS]
◼
►
DMV and you don't like this person's
[TS]
◼
►
attitude i'm at the safeway and I don't
[TS]
◼
►
like that the person is talking about my
[TS]
◼
►
nobody is displeased with how that
[TS]
◼
►
particular person is or is not directing
[TS]
◼
►
traffic and the one of the very first
[TS]
◼
►
thing that happens is you see something
[TS]
◼
►
happening and you go straight to having
[TS]
◼
►
a very strong emotion about it and let's
[TS]
◼
►
be honest that you know let's just even
[TS]
◼
►
say that maybe that person is not
[TS]
◼
►
working optimally or not working to the
[TS]
◼
►
spec let's just say for the sake of
[TS]
◼
►
argument that just didn't go as well as
[TS]
◼
►
great example customer service people
[TS]
◼
►
right you call up and send something was
[TS]
◼
►
broken your you know your Superman ball
[TS]
◼
►
is not as well articulated as it said in
[TS]
◼
►
the ad and you call this person and
[TS]
◼
►
you're furious but something happened
[TS]
◼
►
you get a really strong emotion about it
[TS]
◼
►
i eat maybe can't shake and it just
[TS]
◼
►
feels like it's not a very long there
[TS]
◼
►
might be other steps in this but there's
[TS]
◼
►
not a very long leap from for most
[TS]
◼
►
people from something happened i have a
[TS]
◼
►
feeling to this will have an impact on
[TS]
◼
►
society right to like I suddenly have
[TS]
◼
►
such and I think part of it comes out of
[TS]
◼
►
this impotent feeling that maybe your
[TS]
◼
►
libertarian who thinks that you should
[TS]
◼
►
only you know pay for one road that
[TS]
◼
►
everybody uses lightly or whatever it is
[TS]
◼
►
maybe you don't mean but whoever you are
[TS]
◼
►
whatever your political affiliation
[TS]
◼
►
I honestly think that most of us it
[TS]
◼
►
starts with an emotion it doesn't start
[TS]
◼
►
with going to a planning meeting or
[TS]
◼
►
zoning meeting and understanding it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't start with the understanding
[TS]
◼
►
that maybe that guy's cat maybe the
[TS]
◼
►
traffic cops cat died that day
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you know it is and the trying to be
[TS]
◼
►
too too flimsy about this but what's
[TS]
◼
►
funny is that the people who get the
[TS]
◼
►
most worked up and become these people
[TS]
◼
►
who are connected with the the witch
[TS]
◼
►
called tweet storms or the other bombs
[TS]
◼
►
like the people get involved in that
[TS]
◼
►
stuff it really just started because
[TS]
◼
►
they're mad at their luggage wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you know and in order to quote
[TS]
◼
►
Barry it's very soul like well what you
[TS]
◼
►
want to do you want me to do you want to
[TS]
◼
►
just do you want to just pick up the
[TS]
◼
►
airport and shake it to your bags
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I'm here and you know what dude on
[TS]
◼
►
the baggage guy and I'm fucking here to
[TS]
◼
►
you're not going to meet another person
[TS]
◼
►
here that is that with your attitude
[TS]
◼
►
you're never going to meet anybody more
[TS]
◼
►
sympathetic than me
[TS]
◼
►
my job is to try and help help you but I
[TS]
◼
►
I am NOT God I I can't change the way
[TS]
◼
►
that a huge broken system works and
[TS]
◼
►
you're yelling at me is not helping and
[TS]
◼
►
then going on Twitter and yelling about
[TS]
◼
►
it is going to help even less even if
[TS]
◼
►
you get a lynch mob mob it's not going
[TS]
◼
►
to change the denver airport and this is
[TS]
◼
►
the this is the this is
[TS]
◼
►
the the thing that has affected the the
[TS]
◼
►
tenor of our national conversation the
[TS]
◼
►
idea that property rights is a thing
[TS]
◼
►
that you would shout at somebody is I
[TS]
◼
►
mean there is no more secure your
[TS]
◼
►
farmers your farmers who who want you
[TS]
◼
►
want to have you know they don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
build a skyscraper they want the right
[TS]
◼
►
to build a skyscraper yeah and people
[TS]
◼
►
shout this now who do know who do not
[TS]
◼
►
own any property property rights has
[TS]
◼
►
become a kind of stuff what's wrong with
[TS]
◼
►
Kansas problem it's like you know people
[TS]
◼
►
like my mom who have the values of an
[TS]
◼
►
extremely extremely right-wing
[TS]
◼
►
Republican and none of the assets to
[TS]
◼
►
yeah right and to the right is the money
[TS]
◼
►
they want there are no two more personal
[TS]
◼
►
words in American politics because
[TS]
◼
►
property rights is it's it's it it is an
[TS]
◼
►
expression of people's feeling that they
[TS]
◼
►
do not have any power over there they
[TS]
◼
►
don't have autonomy they don't have
[TS]
◼
►
power over their environment
[TS]
◼
►
well they did they got the ownership
[TS]
◼
►
that God has granted them as an American
[TS]
◼
►
but they don't have the rights that you
[TS]
◼
►
come with that right well or or or what
[TS]
◼
►
they don't see I mean the thing is I
[TS]
◼
►
have tremendous sympathy for municipal
[TS]
◼
►
governments because I because my people
[TS]
◼
►
all were always in government my uncle
[TS]
◼
►
was a was a the mayor of Anchorage my
[TS]
◼
►
dad was on the legislature my granduncle
[TS]
◼
►
was a city councilman you know that I
[TS]
◼
►
come from these people and I ready and I
[TS]
◼
►
end up adding friends with the local
[TS]
◼
►
government here in Seattle and I like
[TS]
◼
►
talking about government and so I hear
[TS]
◼
►
from them their frustrations and they're
[TS]
◼
►
not expressed as frustrations are just
[TS]
◼
►
like this is my job
[TS]
◼
►
it's very hard for me
[TS]
◼
►
to go to a meeting where I am saying for
[TS]
◼
►
the for everyone's benefit
[TS]
◼
►
we need to keep the side of this hill
[TS]
◼
►
forested otherwise landslides who will
[TS]
◼
►
take all the soil off down into the
[TS]
◼
►
river and we will have floods and it
[TS]
◼
►
will be a natural disaster and i'm
[TS]
◼
►
saying this to the five guys who own
[TS]
◼
►
that hillside and they own that land
[TS]
◼
►
some of them have owned that land for 80
[TS]
◼
►
years and whether they ever intended to
[TS]
◼
►
cut those trees down who they're
[TS]
◼
►
powerful desire to not be told what to
[TS]
◼
►
do with that land is deafening them and
[TS]
◼
►
if you don't have sympathy for those
[TS]
◼
►
guys who own that hillside you're crazy
[TS]
◼
►
because you have to have sympathy for
[TS]
◼
►
them if that was my land I would feel
[TS]
◼
►
the same way if that was my land I would
[TS]
◼
►
be at that meeting and I would be like
[TS]
◼
►
god damn you property rights you can't
[TS]
◼
►
tell me that I can't chop down these
[TS]
◼
►
trees you know and and show me the
[TS]
◼
►
report show me the science that says
[TS]
◼
►
that this you know you don't know for
[TS]
◼
►
sure guy that the landslides are going
[TS]
◼
►
to happen like all this in its it's
[TS]
◼
►
analogous to global warming it's
[TS]
◼
►
analogous to every one of our national
[TS]
◼
►
problems there is a there is some
[TS]
◼
►
personal there's a guy at the heart of
[TS]
◼
►
every one of those that has a personal
[TS]
◼
►
feeling that you shouldn't be able to
[TS]
◼
►
tell him what to do but the city the guy
[TS]
◼
►
whose job it is to keep that from
[TS]
◼
►
happening and it's not his job isn't to
[TS]
◼
►
you know this is the other negative
[TS]
◼
►
version of government is that the guys
[TS]
◼
►
just trying to protect his ass but if
[TS]
◼
►
the landslide happens then he's going to
[TS]
◼
►
be on the hook for it and that's his
[TS]
◼
►
motivation if the government spent more
[TS]
◼
►
money on landslide remediation they've
[TS]
◼
►
got the budget while they take care of
[TS]
◼
►
that instead of picking my pocket
[TS]
◼
►
yeah we're or other there's a million
[TS]
◼
►
permutations of it but most people that
[TS]
◼
►
were working in government are trying to
[TS]
◼
►
protect their ask that way or at least
[TS]
◼
►
the high levels they're trying to look
[TS]
◼
►
for years down the road and and yet they
[TS]
◼
►
have tremendous sympathy for this
[TS]
◼
►
purpose for these people who own that
[TS]
◼
►
but their hands are tied and you cannot
[TS]
◼
►
you cannot go to a meeting like that and
[TS]
◼
►
come away from it feeling like there
[TS]
◼
►
there's any kind of elegant solution
[TS]
◼
►
because you're never going to convince
[TS]
◼
►
those five guys and they are going to
[TS]
◼
►
yell and they're going to say they're
[TS]
◼
►
going to say crazy things to you about
[TS]
◼
►
because you are taking you are taking
[TS]
◼
►
from them and it's in that case eat you
[TS]
◼
►
I again I don't know if it's the next
[TS]
◼
►
year metonymy you are the government
[TS]
◼
►
that person is standing up there
[TS]
◼
►
delivering that bad news they may not
[TS]
◼
►
even have had that much of a say in yeah
[TS]
◼
►
it'll go there the government and their
[TS]
◼
►
inability to do anything about it makes
[TS]
◼
►
them even more hateable yeah and what's
[TS]
◼
►
up what's incredible about our country
[TS]
◼
►
right now is that those five guys who
[TS]
◼
►
own that hillsides covered with trees
[TS]
◼
►
have convinced fifty percent of the
[TS]
◼
►
country to be just as mad as they are
[TS]
◼
►
about it you know fifty percent of the
[TS]
◼
►
country the whole town now is mad about
[TS]
◼
►
whether or not these guys should be
[TS]
◼
►
allowed to cut down those trees and
[TS]
◼
►
create an inevitable mudslide that that
[TS]
◼
►
that blocks the river and you know and
[TS]
◼
►
there are people saying show us the
[TS]
◼
►
report and there are people saying
[TS]
◼
►
property rights above all and there are
[TS]
◼
►
people saying who decides and then
[TS]
◼
►
there's that you know then there's the
[TS]
◼
►
the government that's like well shit you
[TS]
◼
►
guys seriously did you really do I have
[TS]
◼
►
to show you every time this has happened
[TS]
◼
►
before do I have to show me come on
[TS]
◼
►
sweet we need to just make this decision
[TS]
◼
►
and it's got to get made and you have
[TS]
◼
►
sympathy for those people but you also
[TS]
◼
►
say what do you think is the proper
[TS]
◼
►
amount of evidence that they should have
[TS]
◼
►
presented to them like you know you
[TS]
◼
►
you're pretty skeptical guy you don't
[TS]
◼
►
like being ripped off
[TS]
◼
►
well how do you so when the club owner
[TS]
◼
►
says I'm you know I agreed to pay this
[TS]
◼
►
much or less even say that so I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know how I can give you an example
[TS]
◼
►
without you find a great loophole but
[TS]
◼
►
let's say they want to give you less
[TS]
◼
►
than you expected
[TS]
◼
►
like what the evidence that you would
[TS]
◼
►
accept told you sure it's the same in
[TS]
◼
►
every aspect if somebody you know I know
[TS]
◼
►
a lot of people have somebody on Twitter
[TS]
◼
►
writes them whispers response to one of
[TS]
◼
►
your tweets and says so
[TS]
◼
►
q you don't know what you're talking
[TS]
◼
►
about that they just blocked that person
[TS]
◼
►
immediately because they just there they
[TS]
◼
►
don't need that in their lives for me if
[TS]
◼
►
somebody I pft that says fuck you you
[TS]
◼
►
don't know what you're talking about i
[TS]
◼
►
always reply can i block these people
[TS]
◼
►
for you so you don't even have to see
[TS]
◼
►
them John i always reply because
[TS]
◼
►
twenty-five percent of the time there
[TS]
◼
►
was a guy yesterday who listen to our
[TS]
◼
►
podcast on depression and wrote me a
[TS]
◼
►
tweet I swear to you Merlin wrote me a
[TS]
◼
►
tweet that said fuck you ! depression is
[TS]
◼
►
easy to cure you just have to try
[TS]
◼
►
fuck you that's that sounds like
[TS]
◼
►
trolling who knows what it was but I
[TS]
◼
►
mean how did you get person believed
[TS]
◼
►
that well so I so the thing is if I had
[TS]
◼
►
blocked him i would never know
[TS]
◼
►
so what i wrote it was gee sounds like
[TS]
◼
►
you've really got depression under
[TS]
◼
►
control like good on you know you you
[TS]
◼
►
sound super healthy which is sarcastic
[TS]
◼
►
but also an opportunity for this person
[TS]
◼
►
to stop and think about what they just
[TS]
◼
►
did and this morning I wake up and I
[TS]
◼
►
have a tweet from this guy going i
[TS]
◼
►
apologize i was rude i have i've deleted
[TS]
◼
►
that tweet and I'm embarrassed that I've
[TS]
◼
►
become tweet delete guy and I had no
[TS]
◼
►
there was i have no right to talk to you
[TS]
◼
►
that what happened to our seattle to you
[TS]
◼
►
got you got somebody deleted a tweet you
[TS]
◼
►
that right there is the amount of due
[TS]
◼
►
diligence and then I think anybody is
[TS]
◼
►
owed because there are all kinds of
[TS]
◼
►
people out there who are going to say
[TS]
◼
►
what fuck you know and if you say yeah
[TS]
◼
►
okay you sound like you're a little mad
[TS]
◼
►
now you want to talk about it anyway
[TS]
◼
►
when people say that to you
[TS]
◼
►
I do because I'm because I
[TS]
◼
►
I always think about how mad I am haha
[TS]
◼
►
but but you give him that chance and if
[TS]
◼
►
they if they come back and say oh my god
[TS]
◼
►
I'm sorry I'm so embarrassed
[TS]
◼
►
then you know that you're dealing with
[TS]
◼
►
the at least the beginning of a
[TS]
◼
►
reasonable person if their response to
[TS]
◼
►
fuck you then they're blocked and you
[TS]
◼
►
know and if there if you do if you do
[TS]
◼
►
that in a city council meeting and they
[TS]
◼
►
say fuck you you know my feelings you
[TS]
◼
►
have you have shown them all the reports
[TS]
◼
►
you need to show him right up but that
[TS]
◼
►
is not how necessarily a democracy works
[TS]
◼
►
that is how supertrain works
[TS]
◼
►
Oh everybody as super train ploughs
[TS]
◼
►
across the land everybody will get a
[TS]
◼
►
chance to read the report but they're
[TS]
◼
►
gonna get one chance to read it seems
[TS]
◼
►
like a lot of people will understand it
[TS]
◼
►
on the face of it will understand a
[TS]
◼
►
crane a cloth people understand a claw
[TS]
◼
►
on a train it's just something you
[TS]
◼
►
understand even illiterate people even
[TS]
◼
►
people who don't speak English you're
[TS]
◼
►
going to see the claw on the train
[TS]
◼
►
coming and they're gonna go i get this
[TS]
◼
►
I grass is it i mean it is certainly
[TS]
◼
►
maybe not in national census day it will
[TS]
◼
►
involve a certain kind of eminent domain
[TS]
◼
►
oh so my struggle and understanding a
[TS]
◼
►
little the name of super train is is
[TS]
◼
►
eminent domain to be written across the
[TS]
◼
►
front of the engine in script and but
[TS]
◼
►
don't make letter so they can see it
[TS]
◼
►
it's flashing Christ comes the eminent
[TS]
◼
►
down the eight-minute domain has arrived
[TS]
◼
►
and the claw is like the claw is
[TS]
◼
►
choosing which houses which forested
[TS]
◼
►
hills from it from a distance again here
[TS]
◼
►
you could just be the claw is just
[TS]
◼
►
warming up people here and getting
[TS]
◼
►
closer and closer i love it and remain
[TS]
◼
►
first I is is probably running too long
[TS]
◼
►
but I am epic think that was probably
[TS]
◼
►
yeah why had a good anko OU what was it
[TS]
◼
►
so important but not what I want to hear
[TS]
◼
►
an anecdote that you know thank you for
[TS]
◼
►
me it's your show well
[TS]
◼
►
I am i I'm trying to grow is pursuing
[TS]
◼
►
general this out for Cleveland I'm the
[TS]
◼
►
editor on the decider i'm not in the
[TS]
◼
►
eminent domain owner that's true in this
[TS]
◼
►
sense in the show you are absolutely the
[TS]
◼
►
mayor I'm not the man that I'm so that
[TS]
◼
►
the mayor of open-air okay you are the
[TS]
◼
►
US the city bureaucrat on the rock and
[TS]
◼
►
roll county executive of the podcast I
[TS]
◼
►
admire your work and I have a limited
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but I'm exercise it with you
[TS]
◼
►
probably but you need to go right home
[TS]
◼
►
and not but I want to hear your amex
[TS]
◼
►
notes i'll save it save it for another
[TS]
◼
►
show i just know it's just on the train
[TS]
◼
►
is just something that has become for me
[TS]
◼
►
well I don't know why but I i keep
[TS]
◼
►
coming up with this these things that
[TS]
◼
►
used to happen to me that are that are
[TS]
◼
►
making me sympathetic to the people who
[TS]
◼
►
are getting yelled at when they're
[TS]
◼
►
trying to help you you know what I mean
[TS]
◼
►
and it's a note to me it sums up a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of what you're talking about and and
[TS]
◼
►
this is you know I you know when we
[TS]
◼
►
first met I was doing web development
[TS]
◼
►
and project management as as my
[TS]
◼
►
livelihood and I've been doing that
[TS]
◼
►
since 1995 and when i started doing that
[TS]
◼
►
1995 I'm part of my job in some ways
[TS]
◼
►
which was educating people about why the
[TS]
◼
►
fuck they would want a website and what
[TS]
◼
►
is the internet I mean to be honest
[TS]
◼
►
there are a lot of people who didn't you
[TS]
◼
►
know I wasn't making a lot of money from
[TS]
◼
►
it but nevertheless you know they would
[TS]
◼
►
they would sooner try and get an AOL
[TS]
◼
►
keyword then they would try to get a
[TS]
◼
►
website that why i don't have that I
[TS]
◼
►
don't look at those why would anybody
[TS]
◼
►
else and that got easier over time but
[TS]
◼
►
the opacity of how internet technology
[TS]
◼
►
works which is something i'm certainly
[TS]
◼
►
not the master of that stuff but I i
[TS]
◼
►
will tell you that that most people I
[TS]
◼
►
we're hiring me because of the tiny bit
[TS]
◼
►
of expertise i had and basically talking
[TS]
◼
►
to them figuring out what they wanted
[TS]
◼
►
turning it into a graphical web site and
[TS]
◼
►
then using a basic ftp technology to put
[TS]
◼
►
it onto a web server where people could
[TS]
◼
►
get to it and that's what my job was my
[TS]
◼
►
job was to try and make a graphical
[TS]
◼
►
design for a website and then put it up
[TS]
◼
►
and then they look at it in the browser
[TS]
◼
►
and then maybe you know emails get sent
[TS]
◼
►
through a little perl script form so
[TS]
◼
►
they can make informed people that
[TS]
◼
►
people can use to send them
[TS]
◼
►
male and so forth but there's a funny
[TS]
◼
►
thing that happens in actually is a
[TS]
◼
►
wonderful tumblr called clients from
[TS]
◼
►
hell that covers a lot of these kinds of
[TS]
◼
►
stories but one thing that used to
[TS]
◼
►
happen to me a surprising amount of the
[TS]
◼
►
time was that I would get a call from a
[TS]
◼
►
client often a client that hadn't been a
[TS]
◼
►
client for several months and they would
[TS]
◼
►
say things like and if anybody has ever
[TS]
◼
►
done this for a living is already
[TS]
◼
►
nodding because this happens all the
[TS]
◼
►
time so people call me up and they say I
[TS]
◼
►
can't get to my website
[TS]
◼
►
ok you can get your website is it i
[TS]
◼
►
would say was I'm that can see it from
[TS]
◼
►
here and saying no it's not but nothing
[TS]
◼
►
is coming up well and you see where this
[TS]
◼
►
so basically in order for them to not
[TS]
◼
►
feel like I'm a dick i would have to
[TS]
◼
►
trace through whether their computer was
[TS]
◼
►
on whether they were in a web browser
[TS]
◼
►
whether whether whether they're ethernet
[TS]
◼
►
cable is plugged in John weather haha
[TS]
◼
►
what you know whether their isp was down
[TS]
◼
►
and so all you know what whereas they
[TS]
◼
►
hired me to make them a website and put
[TS]
◼
►
it up and who knows maybe I frame that
[TS]
◼
►
badly now I'm the one who has to tell
[TS]
◼
►
them whether they're Hayes modem is
[TS]
◼
►
configured configured correctly with the
[TS]
◼
►
right codes & ampersand in order to get
[TS]
◼
►
a signal or I'm the one trying to tell
[TS]
◼
►
their credit card expired on AOL or I'm
[TS]
◼
►
the one explaining that they're using a
[TS]
◼
►
five-year-old web browser or or I'm the
[TS]
◼
►
one telling that the because the right
[TS]
◼
►
there brother-in-law's house on a
[TS]
◼
►
different size screen that's how the
[TS]
◼
►
color all fucked up that's that you're
[TS]
◼
►
seeing something that's really screwed
[TS]
◼
►
up and I don't have the ability to do
[TS]
◼
►
anything about any of that but now I'm
[TS]
◼
►
the dick like I got you know thing was
[TS]
◼
►
I'm accessible like you knew how to call
[TS]
◼
►
me or you knew how to email me I was
[TS]
◼
►
gracious enough to talk to you even
[TS]
◼
►
though your check didn't clear maybe two
[TS]
◼
►
years ago but you know I always felt in
[TS]
◼
►
a really funny and frustrated position
[TS]
◼
►
because there's nothing I could say to
[TS]
◼
►
that person that didn't sound like me
[TS]
◼
►
making a bunch of excuses right all i
[TS]
◼
►
know is i can't get to my website
[TS]
◼
►
well I i know we can all I can really
[TS]
◼
►
tell you is that it
[TS]
◼
►
that doesn't have anything to do with
[TS]
◼
►
the website that I may
[TS]
◼
►
well then why did i pay you a hundred
[TS]
◼
►
and seven dollars to make me a website
[TS]
◼
►
well and I never realized that might
[TS]
◼
►
sound really really extreme but but when
[TS]
◼
►
I think about that person the DMV at the
[TS]
◼
►
DMV or I think about that person they
[TS]
◼
►
think about the fireman he's trying to
[TS]
◼
►
fire fighter who's trying to get people
[TS]
◼
►
out of that building you know to explain
[TS]
◼
►
how it is that these peculiar
[TS]
◼
►
interaction of oxygen and heat with the
[TS]
◼
►
error that causes would in particular to
[TS]
◼
►
be a particularly inflammable and its
[TS]
◼
►
buildings are made out of what like to
[TS]
◼
►
have to explain all that when they're
[TS]
◼
►
going why are you being such a screaming
[TS]
◼
►
yeah 1 i'm being screaming asshole
[TS]
◼
►
because on the screaming asshole who
[TS]
◼
►
might save your life right and by the
[TS]
◼
►
same token if they went to the
[TS]
◼
►
firefighter and said wire
[TS]
◼
►
why isn't there a stoplight by southgate
[TS]
◼
►
mall he could say well eh I don't have
[TS]
◼
►
anything to do with stoplights even
[TS]
◼
►
though i'm technically in the
[TS]
◼
►
quote-unquote government and you get
[TS]
◼
►
your fucking ass out of the building
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and i think i think that the the
[TS]
◼
►
interesting part of that if there is an
[TS]
◼
►
interesting part is that for my clients
[TS]
◼
►
that I had and these are the kinds of
[TS]
◼
►
clients who you know there's things like
[TS]
◼
►
you would see classic stories you know
[TS]
◼
►
the old jokes about people who put their
[TS]
◼
►
drink in the CD holder the people who
[TS]
◼
►
touch the mouse of the screen with their
[TS]
◼
►
Mouse the people who always go to yahoo
[TS]
◼
►
to search for websites
[TS]
◼
►
everybody's got these everybody in my
[TS]
◼
►
family who is older than my age
[TS]
◼
►
DoubleClick's links they double click
[TS]
◼
►
every link and I tell me you know you
[TS]
◼
►
don't need to double-click the agent
[TS]
◼
►
click that once so on the asshole right
[TS]
◼
►
up but my point being that it isn't like
[TS]
◼
►
we have to understand everything about
[TS]
◼
►
how a computer works but it would be
[TS]
◼
►
nice to understand enough in that case
[TS]
◼
►
to know who to call and whether it's
[TS]
◼
►
helpful to yell at anybody
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and and that's what I feel like
[TS]
◼
►
when the point only is tiny point I'm
[TS]
◼
►
trying to make about the whole like the
[TS]
◼
►
people who show up those meetings
[TS]
◼
►
well like for example on pals with the
[TS]
◼
►
guy who's our merchant Association
[TS]
◼
►
liaison for our neighborhood that and
[TS]
◼
►
basically the only people who show up
[TS]
◼
►
it's like this handful of Chinese ladies
[TS]
◼
►
with an agenda and then I'll take care
[TS]
◼
►
of that i'll do that i'll do that
[TS]
◼
►
because they know that they're so
[TS]
◼
►
there's there's so much stuff that could
[TS]
◼
►
they're going to make sure that the only
[TS]
◼
►
stuff that gets done is the stuff that
[TS]
◼
►
benefits them nobody else is going to
[TS]
◼
►
those meetings but it isn't until
[TS]
◼
►
there's no 35 bubble drink places and in
[TS]
◼
►
75 verizon stores that people go our
[TS]
◼
►
neighborhoods getting kind of weird and
[TS]
◼
►
it's safe everybody if everybody showed
[TS]
◼
►
up and followed everything they go to
[TS]
◼
►
all of those meetings and they learn to
[TS]
◼
►
understand how that works but that's the
[TS]
◼
►
downside of the way that a system like
[TS]
◼
►
ours works is that the bigger it gets
[TS]
◼
►
the more moving parts that are the
[TS]
◼
►
harder it is to understand and into the
[TS]
◼
►
general point that the more abstraction
[TS]
◼
►
there is between that messenger who had
[TS]
◼
►
to bring that unhappy message to the
[TS]
◼
►
hill people and the and the the myriad
[TS]
◼
►
number of this of connections in this
[TS]
◼
►
fucked-up game of telephone that ever
[TS]
◼
►
led to that meeting of occurring in the
[TS]
◼
►
first place and so I you know I i take
[TS]
◼
►
you the larger point about like people
[TS]
◼
►
in there you know I just think this is a
[TS]
◼
►
basic human problem that we could all be
[TS]
◼
►
better at on a personal level which is
[TS]
◼
►
understanding that the person who picks
[TS]
◼
►
up the phone and is willing to listen to
[TS]
◼
►
you complain is not necessarily the
[TS]
◼
►
person who's to blame for your tax bill
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and and you know the government
[TS]
◼
►
when you said government like what not
[TS]
◼
►
you but like what the fuck does that
[TS]
◼
►
mean that's like that's like saying you
[TS]
◼
►
blame the universe
[TS]
◼
►
I mean the government is you know people
[TS]
◼
►
in that aid vehicle who picked you up
[TS]
◼
►
off the street you know it's you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's the people working at Hetch Hetchy
[TS]
◼
►
that bringing my water it's you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's just the lies such a it is time for
[TS]
◼
►
azhar it's time for somebody either
[TS]
◼
►
explain this process to people in a way
[TS]
◼
►
that they can't control or get away from
[TS]
◼
►
or to make it not matter anymore and
[TS]
◼
►
bring a claw into it that's the only
[TS]
◼
►
solution because i think people are
[TS]
◼
►
basically this emotionally driven by
[TS]
◼
►
these things and that emotion quickly
[TS]
◼
►
turns into like what this means about
[TS]
◼
►
the universe and and then when you try
[TS]
◼
►
to make public policy based on that
[TS]
◼
►
you're going to have a total clusterfuck
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah and you know that farmer stop
[TS]
◼
►
for a minute and said oh ok this is
[TS]
◼
►
really matter if i want to scare her way
[TS]
◼
►
here but it's a slippery slope
[TS]
◼
►
I've got to protect my my thing you know
[TS]
◼
►
what I mean it's so anyway I that's the
[TS]
◼
►
way I look at it because it's helped me
[TS]
◼
►
for one thing with being less frustrated
[TS]
◼
►
when somebody yells at me because I can
[TS]
◼
►
honestly say to them look I you're
[TS]
◼
►
trying to solve the wrong problem and
[TS]
◼
►
you're yelling at the wrong guy
[TS]
◼
►
well like you say i think that i think
[TS]
◼
►
the introduction of the concept of
[TS]
◼
►
abstraction is the key one who because
[TS]
◼
►
that's the big pattern as it gets more
[TS]
◼
►
abstract with this funny thing happens
[TS]
◼
►
which is that people think that they're
[TS]
◼
►
now dealing with a world of unlimited
[TS]
◼
►
possibility like in in cases where
[TS]
◼
►
people understand the whole chain of
[TS]
◼
►
events they also understand where their
[TS]
◼
►
where there's no more you can do you
[TS]
◼
►
know what I mean like if your if your
[TS]
◼
►
kid falls through the ice and you're
[TS]
◼
►
standing on the side of the lake and
[TS]
◼
►
help help rescue my kid and the firemen
[TS]
◼
►
goes crawls out on the ice and the
[TS]
◼
►
firemen falls through
[TS]
◼
►
at a certain point you understand that
[TS]
◼
►
no one can rescue your kid because you
[TS]
◼
►
watched it you watch the firemen crawl
[TS]
◼
►
out on the ice and fall through and
[TS]
◼
►
there's nothing there
[TS]
◼
►
you know there isn't any magic that you
[TS]
◼
►
can bring to bear on this situation and
[TS]
◼
►
so if your kid drowned in it in that
[TS]
◼
►
Lake you have a certain amount of
[TS]
◼
►
there's no one to blame you know the kid
[TS]
◼
►
just fell through the ice and the final
[TS]
◼
►
training resident in that moment in that
[TS]
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moment and and and for the rest of your
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life you have a kind of peace with it
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we're like I was there I saw it all
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happen i understand that that my kid
[TS]
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couldn't be rescued
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but if you are standing if your kid
[TS]
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falls through the ice and there's a fire
[TS]
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truck there with a giant a crane and you
[TS]
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say help my kid and the firemen says the
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crane isn't rated to be extended that
[TS]
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om then it is still true just as true
[TS]
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that there that they have no technology
[TS]
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that can reach your kid but you don't
[TS]
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understand anymore you know and and even
[TS]
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though the firemen knows if he extends
[TS]
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the crane that far the whole fire trucks
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going to tip over into the lake but
[TS]
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being unable to demonstrate here he had
[TS]
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a reason so but he had a reason to say
[TS]
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look lady I don't know you know I i
[TS]
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would love to help you any way I can but
[TS]
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if i do that ten people might die right
[TS]
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►
but now there's this abstraction of the
[TS]
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►
crane and what its load limit is and
[TS]
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►
what how far you can extend it and what
[TS]
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►
the possibilities are that introduces
[TS]
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►
the concept that maybe if he had just
[TS]
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►
done it it would have worked
[TS]
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►
and so then when your kid drowns you're
[TS]
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►
full of resentment your full you layout
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►
you lay awake at night and think why
[TS]
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►
didn't they just extend the crane why
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►
didn't they just take that risk and you
[TS]
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►
see this in your computer in your
[TS]
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►
the less people know about computers
[TS]
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►
the more they actually think anything
[TS]
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►
can happen that you can just touch it
[TS]
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►
with your elbow and it suddenly starts
[TS]
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►
working because that's what it looks
[TS]
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►
like to them who so they get mad at you
[TS]
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►
get disproportionately mad and
[TS]
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►
frustrated with the with you know
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►
inversely proportionate to the amount of
[TS]
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►
understanding they have about how the
[TS]
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►
thing works and you're sitting there
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►
listen you're just asking me to do
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►
something that does not it is not in
[TS]
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►
just now that'sthat's to abstractions
[TS]
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►
that duel you exactly now that it's two
[TS]
◼
►
completely not paradoxical but contrast
[TS]
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►
me maybe paradoxical on the one hand
[TS]
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►
these fucking computers don't work and
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►
then on the other hand what the fuck
[TS]
◼
►
these components computers are supposed
[TS]
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►
to be able to do everything and maybe
[TS]
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►
you're making the same picture night you
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►
but they're really that you're kind of
[TS]
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►
saying different things you're saying on
[TS]
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►
the one hand I knew this thing was
[TS]
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►
bullshit like I know this government is
[TS]
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►
crooked and screwed up and off and and
[TS]
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►
that isn't doing it but oh my god the
[TS]
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►
government should be able to do this
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►
it's the government and they've got all
[TS]
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►
that money right now but those are both
[TS]
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►
those are both you know could be
[TS]
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►
potentially true and it's at me you're
[TS]
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►
absolutely right it is it is people
[TS]
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►
saying like already i know that
[TS]
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►
government doesn't work because if
[TS]
◼
►
government works we would all be living
[TS]
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►
in undersea cities by now who you know
[TS]
◼
►
if government worked
[TS]
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►
why would there be why why are there
[TS]
◼
►
port and Eisenhower would have made in
[TS]
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►
Atlantis years ago
[TS]
◼
►
yeah we should we should all be living
[TS]
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►
in Atlantis and the fact that we're not
[TS]
◼
►
means the government doesn't work and
[TS]
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►
it's like do you really not understand
[TS]
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►
the government is people
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►
yeah fuckin people fucking people
[TS]