Roderick on the Line

Ep. 67: "All of the Small Beer"


  there is [TS]

  hey I John did you give you figure out [TS]

  my signals [TS]

  yes yes yes I did yes I'm so sorry [TS]

  see I at some point i was playing the [TS]

  guitar in my studio room and I hit a cup [TS]

  of coffee with the headstock of my [TS]

  guitar because i was as i was playing a [TS]

  really aggressive part and some of the [TS]

  coffee sloshed on my keyboard my [TS]

  computer keyboard which it's a wireless [TS]

  keyboard over and it caused it to [TS]

  initially only be able to type numeric [TS]

  like characters like a dollar sign and [TS]

  the paren and and like all the non [TS]

  letters [TS]

  ya like like like yin I could express a [TS]

  lot of yen because i have the symbol for [TS]

  yen and then it just stopped altogether [TS]

  huh and so I sit at the computer and you [TS]

  are you are skype messaging me saying [TS]

  crap you ready go ready ready go big guy [TS]

  and I'm like yelling at the computer [TS]

  watch [TS]

  I'm here I'm here and then I realized I [TS]

  could text you but then you probably had [TS]

  your phone off [TS]

  oh and I'm proud God where to begin so [TS]

  sorry I'm I keep mine [TS]

  I can't use my phone away you know it's [TS]

  just that II yeah I don't think they do [TS]

  that anymore [TS]

  ok but now but just you know the whole [TS]

  idea of distraction just hundred percent [TS]

  to John you know it's alright then I [TS]

  looked and the entire lockscreen was [TS]

  filled with green with Apple messages [TS]

  from you that were yeah yeah pretty much [TS]

  later in our special go well I don't you [TS]

  know I don't think this is why I feel [TS]

  like computers are are still made of [TS]

  bicycle parties [TS]

  and vellum and you know and bailing wire [TS]

  yeah but I mean you're you're out there [TS]

  you're out there deep in dayton ohio [TS]

  pushing the keyboard and nothing's [TS]

  getting in the air [TS]

  yeah the and this is the problem if a [TS]

  guy can't get a little bit aggressive [TS]

  with his Kramer for these floyd rose [TS]

  equipped Kramer guitar and / a little [TS]

  coffee on his keyboard and have its keep [TS]

  working [TS]

  yeah but what if i was down what if I [TS]

  was what if I was 200 feet under the [TS]

  ground in a missile silo and I had a [TS]

  guide my hand on a key anyone to think [TS]

  and you had your hand on a key [TS]

  yes and I'm like turn your Yankee sir [TS]

  your key turn your key sir and my [TS]

  keyboard I spilled coffee on it i am but [TS]

  one question where you seated when you [TS]

  were jamming no no I was standing up but [TS]

  i but i'm telling you this was a very [TS]

  aggressive guitar part yeah I've seen [TS]

  videos of you and of course the senior [TS]

  live programs as well but when you get [TS]

  going your glasses fall off and you [TS]

  start rolling around people think that [TS]

  that's all part of the state Jack it's [TS]

  not a bit but when i get when i get [TS]

  really cranking on a part of who knows [TS]

  what's going to happen sometime she's [TS]

  gonna get spilled I'll tell you that [TS]

  this is why you don't keep coffee on [TS]

  stage shows and it's not it's it's [TS]

  exactly why and it's why I had to quit [TS]

  smoking [TS]

  that's why first of all I had to quit [TS]

  smoking on stage did you burn yourself [TS]

  every time that story was I was I was [TS]

  that I was just playing rock show it was [TS]

  at the old crocodile cafe here in [TS]

  Seattle it was back when you can still [TS]

  smoke in bars and in between songs i lit [TS]

  up a cigarette on stage and my because I [TS]

  because one time many years before I'd [TS]

  seen the band unwound play and the lead [TS]

  the lead guy and unwound he came out on [TS]

  stage before they ever played a note he [TS]

  lit a cigarette and he just stood there [TS]

  and smoke the entire thing just staring [TS]

  at the audience [TS]

  and at you know and nobody think it was [TS]

  a sold-out show nobody in the crowd knew [TS]

  what to do and he wasn't like he wasn't [TS]

  on drugs he was staring at us it was it [TS]

  was the most common with the most [TS]

  confrontational aggressive badass rock [TS]

  thing I had ever seen [TS]

  he just stood there he smoke the entire [TS]

  cigarette at his leisure while we sat in [TS]

  the crowd dumbfounded [TS]

  so I know naturally you're gonna pick [TS]

  that up it's got kind of a smoky [TS]

  overture you're setting the tone for the [TS]

  whole show [TS]

  yeah but i but i could not I mean that [TS]

  was that was that was a badass move but [TS]

  it was also a very art school move in [TS]

  and I could never I could never walk out [TS]

  onstage and put that kind of art school [TS]

  cape on if i'm going to come out in a [TS]

  case but it's gonna be from walgreens [TS]

  it's going to be a walgreens game is [TS]

  gonna be some of art school like stare [TS]

  the audience down cape but I did but I [TS]

  did realize that smoking a cigarette on [TS]

  stage was something i could get away [TS]

  with as the star of the show and anyway [TS]

  let a cigarette on stage and my mom was [TS]

  in the audience and she said the power [TS]

  of suggestion is so is so profound when [TS]

  a person is standing on stage that you [TS]

  let that cigarette and 50 people in the [TS]

  audience little like fumbled for their [TS]

  pack and got a cigarette and I thought [TS]

  the entire crowd lit up and then the [TS]

  room was unbearable nobody could stand [TS]

  to be in there because everybody was [TS]

  smoking was like okay right no more no [TS]

  more on stage smoking right so you've [TS]

  always on some level then aware of your [TS]

  power but in a moment like that if it [TS]

  becomes really clear what you're [TS]

  wielding up there [TS]

  mm-hmm see this is why stops that's why [TS]

  i stopped snorting heroin when ya you'll [TS]

  do anything for your art well yeah well [TS]

  I like the crowd to be comfortable to as [TS]

  I i have a couple friends who are a [TS]

  couple and when they first saw the [TS]

  faceoff film you know pretty good that [TS]

  John movie they agreed by you know 15 [TS]

  animus tune animus consent that they [TS]

  needed to develop some kind of a code so [TS]

  something happen [TS]

  and one of their one of the two in a [TS]

  couple like ended up getting face [TS]

  switched they would have a way to let [TS]

  the person know they have some kind of a [TS]

  facial safe code to let the other person [TS]

  know whether it was really them or not [TS]

  lose their crude and they won't tell [TS]

  which i think is some sort of course [TS]

  they won't know I mean now if you read [TS]

  comics you know that kind of thing with [TS]

  a call-out mind swap it comes up all the [TS]

  time I guess what I'm saying to you is [TS]

  you play guitar a lot you enjoy coffee [TS]

  and maybe we need to work something out [TS]

  where we can have some kind of lonely [TS]

  ping-pong some kind of smoke signals [TS]

  maybe involving the high ass Kiki's that [TS]

  whether thatís maybe this maybe we can [TS]

  work out some kind of read this one [TS]

  thing I was ringing I was bringing all [TS]

  the bells that i had and i realized that [TS]

  you can't hear the you cannot hear the [TS]

  bells unless the computer is engaged now [TS]

  I'm not yet not yet yeah yeah now you [TS]

  can hear fine but uh but and then then [TS]

  that was that then I'm back to the [TS]

  Wright brothers then it's like there is [TS]

  no way once if he's not answering his [TS]

  cell phone texts me going and getting an [TS]

  ipad is not gonna help [TS]

  there's not a third way I hate that [TS]

  feeling and secondly lock your keys in [TS]

  your car and you just you your your your [TS]

  first of all you just fall apart because [TS]

  you realize what a dumbass you are but [TS]

  then if you like me to start reeling [TS]

  through all these different [TS]

  possibilities like any no panic like I [TS]

  panicked but I'm a panicker and when I [TS]

  pan to get real stupid and become very [TS]

  what fabulous time become like a south [TS]

  and south american writer i start coming [TS]

  up with all kinds of crazy shit for what [TS]

  we do to get the situation goes just [TS]

  gonna steal your car and you will be [TS]

  able to stop you know what that could be [TS]

  Plan C you know what we should do is get [TS]

  satellite phones i was gonna say yes I [TS]

  was gonna get with it with the comics i [TS]

  was gonna go more for Batman red phone [TS]

  situation and satellite phone could be [TS]

  nice because just in case just in case [TS]

  as or horticultural lake and lime [TS]

  maybe we should maybe you should lay our [TS]

  out our own cable [TS]

  mm-hmm should take that I i think i just [TS]

  did it's like mr. Copeland on you [TS]

  ah yes I'll everybody at work yeah um [TS]

  everything she does is magic [TS]

  I you know the phones are a funny thing [TS]

  my in-law [TS]

  still just cannot believe that all we [TS]

  have are our mobile phones they think [TS]

  it's so you know they're not that much [TS]

  older than us but it just seems crazy [TS]

  like you know what's the first thing you [TS]

  do you get your house and the first [TS]

  thing you do you do turn on the electric [TS]

  and you get a phone like how could you [TS]

  not have a landline phone in your house [TS]

  and the first thing you do is go [TS]

  masturbate in every room and get this [TS]

  looks after not did I agreed a different [TS]

  moment but i can't throw all the cards [TS]

  out [TS]

  I know ok now just to review when you [TS]

  first considering just even considering [TS]

  buying a home you go into every corner [TS]

  and you listen right yes they are there [TS]

  any spooks in here you lay down on the [TS]

  floor closure eyes and you say are there [TS]

  any spooks in here [TS]

  ok then we fast-forward past the closing [TS]

  everything set [TS]

  you've escrowed or whatever that means [TS]

  and now it's all yours do you have a [TS]

  sense in your mind of the kinds of the [TS]

  steps you walk through to lay your [TS]

  imprimatur on that floor masturbating [TS]

  seems like a great start in uh yeah I [TS]

  mean you gotta you gotta walk around the [TS]

  house i think i think in my case you [TS]

  have to walk around the house and [TS]

  visibly scoff at every improvement that [TS]

  a previous homeowner made so like I walk [TS]

  around I riding the quality and the [TS]

  taste of decided i just put like a [TS]

  little i just put a little thumbprint of [TS]

  scorn on every other carpenters work [TS]

  nice recessed lighting [TS]

  it's kind of like it's kind of like when [TS]

  you walk through the inner city and [TS]

  somebody's tagged and then somebody else [TS]

  is crossed out the tag and tagged [TS]

  they're tagged on it and then actually [TS]

  remember I just as written is gay after [TS]

  the his gay right right [TS]

  I I walk around and I just look at all [TS]

  the I look at all the hack carpentry [TS]

  because every house that's a hundred [TS]

  years old has a 10 20 year increments [TS]

  like the rings of a tree has hacked [TS]

  carpenter that cat carpentry throughout [TS]

  the ages so you can you can look at the [TS]

  at the nails and kind of gauge like what [TS]

  era those nails are from right to be [TS]

  like oh this is some seventies a [TS]

  carpentry and it's over the top of some [TS]

  50 sack carpentry so I walked and I [TS]

  certainly walked around my house and I [TS]

  was like that is some part of the whole [TS]

  nature in now [TS]

  there's some nice finishing I don't want [TS]

  to you know triangulate too much here [TS]

  but you'll remember i was literally [TS]

  taken aback by your kitchen [TS]

  yeah yeah there have been in there have [TS]

  been improvements made who but but you [TS]

  make decisions you've got a budget you [TS]

  get time you going and you maybe fix [TS]

  some things and another thing another [TS]

  thing that I walked around the house and [TS]

  I just I just I gave the scornful I to [TS]

  all the new stuff so that the new stuff [TS]

  this is my feeling so that the candle [TS]

  lighting and the the marble countertops [TS]

  don't get too ahead of themselves they [TS]

  don't have too much pride they sit back [TS]

  and they realize that they are new and I [TS]

  see them right and then they become part [TS]

  of the house and they're not they're not [TS]

  sticking out all the time like look at [TS]

  me i'm the i'm the pressure-sensitive [TS]

  light switch or whatever it's like you [TS]

  are you're nothing to me [TS]

  yeah pressure-sensitive light switch so [TS]

  your thing is also your my you can't [TS]

  figure mine and here's what I want to [TS]

  serve at my pleasure i want from you [TS]

  that you work like a light switch [TS]

  that's what I that theater lighting [TS]

  thing where it comes up and down kind of [TS]

  Jenny they got me like John I got mixed [TS]

  feelings about that they installed this [TS]

  stuff in my house and every time I walk [TS]

  in I hit the light switch and then it [TS]

  makes a decision and and I'm standing [TS]

  there in the doorway my arms laden with [TS]

  groceries or irm carry a girl across the [TS]

  threshold or something [TS]

  my hands are full and I hit that light [TS]

  switch and then it thinks about what [TS]

  it's going to do for a second it seems [TS]

  like we hit the the opening of west side [TS]

  story and maybe the lights are just [TS]

  slowly coming up yeah yeah and then [TS]

  sometimes they go up a little now John [TS]

  and that's the reason they come on a [TS]

  light switch and there's a reason the [TS]

  late decision must be looking now it's [TS]

  it is a reason that that is the analogy [TS]

  for on and off it should give it a flick [TS]

  it should be audible and then the room [TS]

  should be flooded with light lights on [TS]

  well we have one of those in our dining [TS]

  area we call the nook and i think yeah [TS]

  you you're emotionally with the old [TS]

  place which is almost exactly like the [TS]

  new place but in the new place [TS]

  I'm somebody installed under which [TS]

  college I just like theater lighting [TS]

  right where it can gently you turn it on [TS]

  and gently bring the light of day [TS]

  and we bring the lights down somebody [TS]

  installed in our place but they didn't [TS]

  finish it so it's gonna hang out of the [TS]

  wall a little bit you know you got a [TS]

  match on it real hard to get it to go [TS]

  it really it defeats the entire purpose [TS]

  of having lights in your home this [TS]

  morning exercise it's more like a [TS]

  children's exercise and how to make [TS]

  light happen then adults trying to find [TS]

  a room with light [TS]

  here's another thing maybe i don't i [TS]

  don't know i'm not going to presume how [TS]

  much you know about electricity light [TS]

  but if you installed 10 canned light [TS]

  fixtures in a room through one light [TS]

  switch and you put a 60-watt bulb in [TS]

  every one of those that's 600 watts [TS]

  yeah it is additive and if your lights [TS]

  which is rated for 300 Watts here's [TS]

  what's gonna happen [TS]

  your lights which is going to get very [TS]

  hot as the power pours through the tiny [TS]

  little as the electrons pour through the [TS]

  tiny little hole elaborate chur the [TS]

  little cable hole the hole that is a [TS]

  cable about these things a lot of family [TS]

  is tables are holes which electricity [TS]

  pour through that our own better that [TS]

  are there basically holes of plastic [TS]

  that are full of copper electric pole [TS]

  its up its it works it works like a [TS]

  tunnel that it is a tube the electric [TS]

  that I'm extrapolating fact that you put [TS]

  that it's a tube it's a long copper tube [TS]

  rate that is full of copper which is [TS]

  full of electrons and it gets very hot [TS]

  and you're seeing these these these a [TS]

  brainiacs who put all this week we used [TS]

  called recessed lights and candles when [TS]

  you get the holes in the ceiling and you [TS]

  get this kind of fruity no offense kind [TS]

  of fruity the lights that are included [TS]

  in the ceiling in a in a can [TS]

  right right right i don't care for this [TS]

  they used the wrong switches they use [TS]

  with the you switches that were not [TS]

  rated for this behavior and so when you [TS]

  type if as if the lights are powered all [TS]

  the way up then you go over and you put [TS]

  your hand on it you will feel you will [TS]

  feel the one of the most uncomfortable [TS]

  feelings you can have as a homeowner [TS]

  hot plastic light switch it's like two [TS]

  places in maybe three places in your [TS]

  home you should feel warmth [TS]

  this should be water coming out of a [TS]

  rated spigot could be out of some heat [TS]

  radiating device but generally as you [TS]

  know I am NOT an electrical engineer but [TS]

  its understanding that electrical things [TS]

  should not be hot [TS]

  no you don't want your electrical things [TS]

  hot and you don't want ants in your [TS]

  upstairs bath now god they still there [TS]

  no no come on it's been months so they [TS]

  went away if you're living your sink is [TS]

  that why they were so they figured out [TS]

  another way because I was I had them i [TS]

  had that I had their routes all mapped [TS]

  out and I had little punchy traps all [TS]

  around the sink so the answer would walk [TS]

  across sorry but if it employs a [TS]

  nonstick yeah well they would walk [TS]

  across what seemed like a up floor [TS]

  covered with leaves and then they would [TS]

  fall into a pit and be impaled on a [TS]

  shit-covered state upon the stick shift [TS]

  covered bamboo stick and then they would [TS]

  die of infection so they couldn't go [TS]

  near the sink but then in there in there [TS]

  like in their power their and power [TS]

  which I do not understand i cannot for [TS]

  the life of me understand it's one of [TS]

  those pallets one of those animal powers [TS]

  like they say a dog can smell you [TS]

  six miles away and it's like how know a [TS]

  dog [TS]

  how does a dog do it right these ants [TS]

  can find a way they send out so many [TS]

  scouts million scouts and they found a [TS]

  new way in which is that a little piece [TS]

  of caulk had drooped true peacock ah and [TS]

  yeah you know you I mean you would have [TS]

  thought of that [TS]

  who thinks about drew peacock and the [TS]

  only way you could see the peacock is [TS]

  lay down on the floor of the bathroom [TS]

  and put your head under the toilet where [TS]

  the P splashes and look under the trim [TS]

  and there you will see that whoever was [TS]

  talking it like they just kinda it's not [TS]

  that they missed a spot [TS]

  it's just that little rock dropped a [TS]

  little bit and now it it is the i-5 of [TS]

  ants [TS]

  and they're pouring into the bathroom [TS]

  and I'm like what do you want in here [TS]

  there's nothing I genetic and Yuri cock [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah you can but I am happy down there [TS]

  you go down there it's not bad it's that [TS]

  it's that you know that I i suffered [TS]

  Merlin because i want the hands to learn [TS]

  i want to i feel like i don't want to [TS]

  fix the problem [TS]

  I want to teach you teach teach the end [TS]

  that's right i want to fix the problem [TS]

  of the cock level I want to fix the [TS]

  problem with the attitude level i want [TS]

  to go back up the chain out the head and [TS]

  rye i think i understand this is a big [TS]

  pattern for you [TS]

  yes be you would like to see a [TS]

  consequent change in behavior but a you [TS]

  want to make sure that they get their [TS]

  mind right that's right isn't a kind of [TS]

  more important thing 82 teaching at the [TS]

  fish I imagine the Queen and and I [TS]

  imagine some lieutenant colonel and [TS]

  comes up and says were but we're missing [TS]

  some scouts and the queen says send more [TS]

  Scouts and the lieutenant-colonel comes [TS]

  back and he's like sector B we are we're [TS]

  not getting any readings from sector be [TS]

  nobody's coming back [TS]

  nobody's making it back from sector B [TS]

  and she's like redouble our efforts in [TS]

  sector B and we go back and forth until [TS]

  the lieutenant-colonel bruised and [TS]

  battered stands before her and says we [TS]

  are hemorrhaging and sector B we cannot [TS]

  keep up this pace it's an unwinnable war [TS]

  like I want their hearts and minds i [TS]

  want her write whatever you want to win [TS]

  this this trench for this war of [TS]

  attrition you want to wear them down [TS]

  yeah it's where to where the short of [TS]

  resources and a half blessing to you I [TS]

  want her to feel I want her to feel me [TS]

  there next to her in her nest whispering [TS]

  in her ear [TS]

  you should sit next to her I can't do it [TS]

  I can't follow because she's a very tiny [TS]

  tiny little creature i cannot get into [TS]

  her nest with her but I want her to feel [TS]

  me there [TS]

  I want her to make decisions based on [TS]

  the my whispering in her ear send all [TS]

  the ins you want to just staring at her [TS]

  smoking a cigarette but I have this [TS]

  amazing thing which is called a [TS]

  Dustbuster and my Dustbuster is [TS]

  calibrated for antibodies and I will sit [TS]

  and i will Dustbuster dance i will spend [TS]

  i will spend 15 days not leaving my [TS]

  bathroom there's a sink in there the [TS]

  food i can get water who and i will just [TS]

  dust every hand that comes out of that [TS]

  little piece of true peacock em children [TS]

  she feels me she knows I'm there I mm [TS]

  I've read a third of a book about this [TS]

  and I've heard for podcast about it and [TS]

  I would tell you that the 15 second [TS]

  version of it is that ants and this is [TS]

  actually something i heard last weekend [TS]

  and succeed because they're stupid and [TS]

  because there's lots of them and when [TS]

  they make a mistake things get better so [TS]

  basically walk around as the EO wilson [TS]

  is shown they have a little finger [TS]

  shaped gland that makes that little ant [TS]

  smell and and so basically what they do [TS]

  is they run around and do these little [TS]

  paths and when they pick up a more [TS]

  powerful path they walk down that path [TS]

  so it's all completely illogical [TS]

  immersions it's all completely [TS]

  accidental but it's also completely [TS]

  chaotic and I'm just you know as you [TS]

  know i'm not an entomologist but i think [TS]

  it's hard to teach and I think they're [TS]

  already there pretty stupid and ultra [TS]

  summaries two roads diverged in a yellow [TS]

  wood and sorry they could not travel [TS]

  both but b1 and alone they stood there [TS]

  and looked down one as far as they could [TS]

  to wear been into the undergrowth and [TS]

  then they take the other as just as fair [TS]

  and having perhaps the better claim [TS]

  because it was not grassy and did not [TS]

  want where [TS]

  although as for that the passing there [TS]

  had worn them really about the same [TS]

  Wow now what was that was a cross amber [TS]

  go around her loved ones that I wasn't [TS]

  gonna be white [TS]

  no that was Robert Frost is I was gonna [TS]

  guess for us [TS]

  yeah cheese Louise I you know I I don't [TS]

  wanna see I don't want to think about I [TS]

  don't be bothered by and only bothered [TS]

  by insects but like so many things in [TS]

  life is just I noticed them you live in [TS]

  San Francisco there are so many bigger [TS]

  chance to bother you [TS]

  yeah i can overlook a lot of them i can [TS]

  overlook a lot of them but you know it [TS]

  is it is frustrating and you know really [TS]

  in Florida it was there was the roaches [TS]

  means longer just talking about insects [TS]

  and I think we can very easily extend [TS]

  this to people and drippy cock not [TS]

  withstanding the roaches you know they [TS]

  say for everyone you see there's like a [TS]

  seven thousand others or whatever [TS]

  no not an expert but no no you see 1 [TS]

  i'll never forget my first Roach it is [TS]

  it is so complacent on my mind had a [TS]

  little touch you know I wish you wish [TS]

  rails 14 I could use the love but I was [TS]

  laying in bed watching fridays as you do [TS]

  and it might the room was dark and watch [TS]

  my little portable black-and-white TV [TS]

  and I i see a little movement and there [TS]

  shouldn't be a little movement your room [TS]

  at twelve o'clock on a friday and it was [TS]

  a roach in my room and you know even in [TS]

  Florida we're not talking about those [TS]

  ones that are you know the size of a [TS]

  pencil eraser know it's like a small cat [TS]

  oh it's curry and and it's a little [TS]

  insects that make noise like a pack of [TS]

  gum is literally the size of a pack of [TS]

  gum [TS]

  yes they're like liked and gum and they [TS]

  make an audible noise when they move and [TS]

  I ran out of my room of all the [TS]

  creatures I've had my room that was once [TS]

  had a corn snake in my room one time I [TS]

  dealt with that the but the the roaches [TS]

  are the worst because you don't know [TS]

  where they're coming from corn snake you [TS]

  find a ticket like a gentleman but that [TS]

  the roaches and you know all like so [TS]

  many of our troublesome animals if their [TS]

  head can fit throughout the rest of them [TS]

  can i was sleeping in a hotel in this [TS]

  middle of the czech republic one night a [TS]

  motel [TS]

  let's just let's call a spade a spade it [TS]

  was a motel [TS]

  and I turned off the lights and I heard [TS]

  that sound and I was like I'm too tired [TS]

  and I no roaches can't hurt me I'm too [TS]

  tired to deal with this and I just screw [TS]

  it and then one fell from the ceiling on [TS]

  me in the dark while I was sleeping and [TS]

  I i left six feet in the air and turn [TS]

  the light on as i was flying and the [TS]

  room was covered with these things that [TS]

  were like they were the size of packs of [TS]

  gum and black and the and so I was the [TS]

  whole rest of the night I was killing [TS]

  roaches United do anything I didn't stop [TS]

  the plague [TS]

  now i just made a mess i have one of my [TS]

  ear once [TS]

  oh yeah i mean not all the way in but he [TS]

  was curious he was curious since [TS]

  conversation is really going sideways [TS]

  yeah once i meant haha good in this here [TS]

  up [TS]

  oh that slow at satori make it suntory [TS]

  times now we're fine Stargate actually [TS]

  waiting to play Stargate the the [TS]

  much-improved you know son of defender [TS]

  as you know and we're playing Stargate [TS]

  and this guy was he's really good at [TS]

  Stargate he's real gross and real stinky [TS]

  and I wouldn't tell you his name but his [TS]

  name was pretty much stinky that was [TS]

  kind of his last stinky right yeah he's [TS]

  a worker snotboogie via yeah yeah he was [TS]

  he was he was going along and killing [TS]

  mutants and jump into the Stargate and [TS]

  he started shaking his is right foot and [TS]

  a roach crawled out of issue [TS]

  Oh welcome blocking the Florida stinky [TS]

  you're saying the roads got the road [TS]

  came there was stinky yeah [TS]

  and I i don't think it was doing second [TS]

  player he was refused he was riding was [TS]

  thinking it's ready little Wayne up my [TS]

  wildest one tax story i was walking down [TS]

  the street they witness this John it [TS]

  really really miss it going down the [TS]

  street and washington DC in the middle [TS]

  of the night one time and you know it on [TS]

  the East Coast a town houses brownstones [TS]

  have Stoops and if steps steps that come [TS]

  down and those steps have beautiful sort [TS]

  of cast-iron lintels at the bottom of [TS]

  the stairs right they have two big posts [TS]

  made of iron with but giant iron balls [TS]

  on the top at the bottom of the stairs [TS]

  be picturing this [TS]

  yeah I am I was walking down the [TS]

  sidewalk in a fairly nice neighborhood [TS]

  and one of these brownstones had the top [TS]

  of their of one of those posts had been [TS]

  sheared off somehow [TS]

  and it was hollow as they are and out of [TS]

  it was pouring like water flowing out of [TS]

  the top of this thing and down the sides [TS]

  and into the street roaches [TS]

  oh come on waves and waves just a [TS]

  constantly like thousands of roaches [TS]

  pouring out of this post down the sides [TS]

  all four sides and into the sidewalk [TS]

  industry and people were standing there [TS]

  at a healthy distance from this thing [TS]

  and marveling at it as if a fire hydrant [TS]

  was open and water was spilling into the [TS]

  street but it was it was a billion [TS]

  roaches [TS]

  what do you think brought them out [TS]

  coming from we're coming from their [TS]

  undersea layer and what was bringing [TS]

  them out was black magic [TS]

  mm it was the ugliest most awful thing I [TS]

  had ever seen it it it it it inspired me [TS]

  to think of new tortures that were that [TS]

  were as bad as being buried alive [TS]

  like for instance being stuffed down [TS]

  that hole [TS]

  you know or being buried alive in a [TS]

  place where there were that many roaches [TS]

  I mean they're you know as a as a man I [TS]

  am I'm contractually obligated at least [TS]

  once a month to think of some terrible [TS]

  terrible scenario where I die or him [TS]

  trapped or buried alive with a billion [TS]

  roaches [TS]

  yeah yeah I think that's pretty normal [TS]

  hopeless situation that you that you [TS]

  have been put into by an enemy for [TS]

  example [TS]

  yeah and this did not I did not have an [TS]

  awareness that such a terrible thing [TS]

  could exist until I saw this and then [TS]

  then I realized that even my worst [TS]

  fantasy was not it not as bad as the [TS]

  world could could drum up [TS]

  yeah I don't like I don't like swarming [TS]

  and you hit the funny part of it is if I [TS]

  if I were to place myself on a continuum [TS]

  I think I'm you know compared to a lot [TS]

  of people again having lived in Florida [TS]

  you know have having seen a roach come [TS]

  out of a Stargate player shoe I feel [TS]

  like on the American continuum excluding [TS]

  maybe Mississippi god bless them i think [TS]

  i'm on the amana i'm on the pretty left [TS]

  side of the curve in the shit I've been [TS]

  in the shit I got the thousand-yard [TS]

  stare [TS]

  I think there are people who are way way [TS]

  more freaked out by then the then I am [TS]

  about roaches but again like the [TS]

  Stargate player there are people who are [TS]

  not quite freaked out enough but I guess [TS]

  that's just that's a condition of life [TS]

  now you know like with rats i don't like [TS]

  rats don't like rats what about goth [TS]

  girl with white Pat Rapp what about pet [TS]

  rat on a on a little like with a cat [TS]

  collar on there like anchovies you know [TS]

  where if I know it's coming so to speak [TS]

  like I'm okay we just had to get rid of [TS]

  that the third rat at my kids school the [TS]

  third rad shredders turf and movie but [TS]

  wasn't that Orson don't like scary novel [TS]

  that they get that Orson Welles movie [TS]

  know which if you seen this television [TS]

  showed the Americans i have I i actually [TS]

  purchase it on my way to my TV we don't [TS]

  normally sit and talk about pop media i [TS]

  was curious what you thought about it [TS]

  actually [TS]

  well you know as a as a internationally [TS]

  famous fact checker [TS]

  my initial response to it was that I was [TS]

  pointing out all the light fixtures that [TS]

  were wrong and all the people that were [TS]

  wearing not era-appropriate glasses [TS]

  frame i wish i wasn't that guy that [TS]

  everybody watch me watch indiana jones [TS]

  last night and the part with the guys [TS]

  from the Army come and talk to him at [TS]

  the at the school [TS]

  all you do is stare at this one guy suit [TS]

  from fucking 1980 he was obviously [TS]

  wearing in 1980 suit [TS]

  yeah yeah and this I've got the the [TS]

  thing about this show is in 19min [TS]

  1984-85 if you want anyone right ok very [TS]

  clearly like that transition that's [TS]

  right Reagan Reagan has like Jason Brown [TS]

  in tell people because i don't want no [TS]

  spoilers but I i think it's conceptually [TS]

  setting aside the girl from Felicity who [TS]

  I would eat off a cracker [TS]

  I i think it's consistently or she's so [TS]

  my type [TS]

  can we talk about her she's got no hips [TS]

  yes I didn't know me we're talking about [TS]

  before because you mentioned and I was [TS]

  like oh sure but i had no idea that [TS]

  she's bitchy saw her and said that's [TS]

  that's why did i see i see here and I'm [TS]

  like up there it is that's one of those [TS]

  Merlin girl she's got this big eyes [TS]

  yeah but so the premise of the show is [TS]

  that the that there are sleeper agents [TS]

  from the Soviet Union living in America [TS]

  as Americans basically for all practical [TS]

  purposes in the city and they were like [TS]

  raised as Americans yeah they're like [TS]

  KGB agents not allowed not allowed to [TS]

  speak Russian but they're dead but [TS]

  they're devoted to the cause and I think [TS]

  one of the interesting things about the [TS]

  show is that it reminds me of a time [TS]

  when soviet-style communism still seemed [TS]

  it is plausible to me in 1981 that [TS]

  people in America were still harboring [TS]

  sympathy with the Soviet Union I [TS]

  remember I remember a time when you know [TS]

  when it was plausible that there were [TS]

  people around who were still fellow [TS]

  travelers okay yeah absolutely [TS]

  yeah but so so that you know there are [TS]

  some impossibilities about the show but [TS]

  you know how much I love a spy show [TS]

  oh it's in it's very it's got all those [TS]

  else is you absolutely do i do as well [TS]

  don't come back to this involving Jason [TS]

  Bourne in a minute but yes and and it's [TS]

  got all the elements it should be a [TS]

  little better than it is but it's really [TS]

  good because it's got layers i think [TS]

  it's written well I think it's acted [TS]

  well they're just a few moments where [TS]

  I'm like those glasses are not from [TS]

  sometimes reason you're not just your [TS]

  not just kidding thats that's a big [TS]

  hang-up for you those classes are wrong [TS]

  yeah and everything is that what i can [TS]

  tell is there are four people working [TS]

  the set design of the show and 303 mr [TS]

  good are dynamite you know there's like [TS]

  I'm looking around and I'm like holy [TS]

  shit they got the stock us as pull-up [TS]

  socks with the guys socks they got that [TS]

  whole thing remember in 1981 when [TS]

  everybody had a weird brown and and mob [TS]

  quilt hanging on the wall behind the [TS]

  brass bell [TS]

  yeah and like country kitchen with 2 k's [TS]

  yeah or like a macrame plant holder that [TS]

  had some ferns in it and an owl and you [TS]

  know like 1981 very distinctive look and [TS]

  they get the cars right i'm always [TS]

  looking in the background shows like [TS]

  that to see the one car that's wrong and [TS]

  they all the cars are right i think [TS]

  that's a lot of work [TS]

  the clothes are right that is a lot of [TS]

  work they're just there a couple of [TS]

  things the lead actress has the wrong [TS]

  hair is no way somebody in 1981 had hair [TS]

  that that look that cool [TS]

  she's butBut saying that the person [TS]

  that's dressing her is putting her in a [TS]

  tease jeans but making them look [TS]

  contemporary like somebody's tailoring [TS]

  the clothes so that little bit so that [TS]

  they so that they are technically right [TS]

  right good night but that's a balance [TS]

  the striker you don't want to be like [TS]

  distracting [TS]

  yeah right you don't be maybe a little [TS]

  too Gloria Vanderbilt exactly remember [TS]

  remember how bad hi [TS]

  waisted jeans looked on women i do and [TS]

  we suffered through them for a direct I [TS]

  was very focused on just about 2-3 [TS]

  inches down from that but I do remember [TS]

  and i think they really nailed that in [TS]

  this high-waisted jeans with a little [TS]

  tiny like alligator skin belt [TS]

  oh man I I was like a double dollar go [TS]

  around you get like a double belt [TS]

  remember that little belt-tightening [TS]

  with you get a lot of that stuff right [TS]

  and then every once in a while somebody [TS]

  comes on screen and it's like was the [TS]

  good person off today and somebody just [TS]

  loaned you their glasses like this and [TS]

  maybe I'm maybe I'm a weirdo maybe [TS]

  glasses don't matter to other people but [TS]

  come on I come with you I i watch for [TS]

  those things to you know and I always [TS]

  notice is e and you know there are [TS]

  people who have gone crazy with this and [TS]

  I guess that show with the winter in the [TS]

  elves or whatever there's like shit [TS]

  where you can go through and look at the [TS]

  vernacular elf winter elf winter that [TS]

  show on HBO with the the Peter Dingle [TS]

  guy and I know you know I met him it no [TS]

  really [TS]

  in college he seemed super smart so he [TS]

  comes on he comes on the show that [TS]

  hodgman and cabin and we're doing he's [TS]

  one of our guests will come on [TS]

  yeah and he said they're very very smart [TS]

  guy he's a he is he's exceptionally [TS]

  smart and also just saying that because [TS]

  he's small understand he's great he's [TS]

  very clean [TS]

  he's he's a clean and yes he's keeps [TS]

  himself very clean but he's a he's very [TS]

  articulate his parents he's also like [TS]

  he's really a mensch and and you know I [TS]

  think he's like he's got a little bit of [TS]

  a chip on his shoulder because everybody [TS]

  wants to compliment him on being [TS]

  articulated clean because he is [TS]

  literally small he's a little zippy done [TS]

  real well Peter but you know like but [TS]

  but yeah right I I it i challenge anyone [TS]

  to try and pat him on the head i think [TS]

  he would break your hand into seven [TS]

  places but but no he's won he's a [TS]

  wonderful guy had a blast with him [TS]

  easily hear more about that look like [TS]

  dick had some kind of you know was that [TS]

  was a rapier or a cutlass yet something [TS]

  that Cutlass he had some kind of value [TS]

  so you you was it mr. Hodgman somebody [TS]

  posted a photo of you guys hanging out [TS]

  and take haven't had some kind of sword [TS]

  yeah well one of our guests was a [TS]

  like a Quint athlete from the canadian [TS]

  olympic that lady right there [TS]

  yeah and she brought her fencing Sabres [TS]

  something and she and I actually fenced [TS]

  on the balcony of the chateau marmont [TS]

  and you know she she again like all [TS]

  great athletes she had economy of motion [TS]

  so I'm slashing away at the air and I'm [TS]

  saying come at me you know to the death [TS]

  and she's just like she was just carving [TS]

  our initials in my shirt and then then [TS]

  you know she made the fatal error of [TS]

  thinking that the duel was over there [TS]

  and your future looked away which point [TS]

  i dealt the fatal blow like like an hour [TS]

  later and and I got booed I got booed by [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  uh-huh because supposedly that she [TS]

  wasn't looking [TS]

  yeah this isn't the Olympics isn't does [TS]

  this cockamamie Olympic rules [TS]

  yeah that's right this isn't this is the [TS]

  real world dude but then-then cabin got [TS]

  ahold of my saber at some point and then [TS]

  he's you know I don't know you can't but [TS]

  i would not give that man a sword [TS]

  no I learned I learned the hard way yeah [TS]

  you know got one time he and Groucho [TS]

  we're talking about sources he's got a [TS]

  gradual story for every single I mean he [TS]

  has an anecdote about Groucho Marx that [TS]

  fits any case he is he is the chuck [TS]

  klosterman and the thurston moore of [TS]

  Groucho Marx anecdotes you know actually [TS]

  you cannot leave this history turns out [TS]

  legally you cannot have a rock-and-roll [TS]

  documentary and this is chuck klosterman [TS]

  and thurston moore and that guy who [TS]

  looks like Joey Ramone from my Rolling [TS]

  Stone david fricke oh yeah that guy [TS]

  can't stand to hear him talk like to [TS]

  hire check classroom never stop punching [TS]

  him [TS]

  well you know I his teeth is Johnny [TS]

  teeth [TS]

  the corollary is the is the punk rock [TS]

  documentary that has to have both flee [TS]

  and dave grohl doll yes [TS]

  yes yes he has something to say about [TS]

  every single punk rock band also also [TS]

  large Rick makes a lot of appearances in [TS]

  Iraqi memories my god i heard the [TS]

  greatest story please [TS]

  so a friend of mine who is in a rock [TS]

  band with the foot the famous eighties [TS]

  rocker who's gonna remain nameless just [TS]

  so that just so that are our fact [TS]

  checker listeners are going to have to [TS]

  do they're gonna have to do at least the [TS]

  legwork of remembering the 20 times [TS]

  we've talked about the person in the [TS]

  past you tell me later [TS]

  oh yeah some friend of mine potentially [TS]

  financial investment k with the famous [TS]

  put a very very very famous 80s rocker [TS]

  and they are now has all of his organs [TS]

  intact [TS]

  he's still alive and we are ok I'm sorry [TS]

  they are on tour they were on tour in [TS]

  Asia recently on one of these big [TS]

  package tours where its lair and it's a [TS]

  you know it's what I dimebag darrell is [TS]

  dead but the breast of the guys from [TS]

  from the done bagged derelict explosion [TS]

  and all those all those bands anthrax [TS]

  they're all there and the headliner is [TS]

  Metallica and so this buddy of mine and [TS]

  some other dudes from like up-and-coming [TS]

  metal bands that i could not name are [TS]

  standing around backstage at the BBQ pit [TS]

  at one of these big massive metal shows [TS]

  in Japan and James Hadfield walks up [TS]

  this way it's like what's up guys oh my [TS]

  god that's so cool [TS]

  so these you know these three guys are [TS]

  like oh shit head [TS]

  hey James Hadfield what's up bro and [TS]

  they're all standing around they all [TS]

  have like leather wrist bands that are [TS]

  six inches wide and and they all have [TS]

  long goatees and understand the colo [TS]

  would some how it's going you know rock [TS]

  and roll and James Hetfield's talking to [TS]

  him and and somebody you know kind of [TS]

  takes the initiative one of these guys [TS]

  kinda gets a little bold [TS]

  there's always one there's always one is [TS]

  like you know you know what i like about [TS]

  you guys [TS]

  james hetfield is like you you made it [TS]

  through the nineties without like you [TS]

  know doing anything embarrassing [TS]

  musically and change that feels like [TS]

  thanks man you know appreciate it hey [TS]

  guys can I keeps pressing his luck its [TS]

  like I mean you know what I'm gonna stop [TS]

  right there that lets his gracious [TS]

  you're gonna get like a lot of metal [TS]

  dudes you know a lot of guys let me [TS]

  apply that state like a lot of guys your [TS]

  age you know they play they tried to [TS]

  like you know make it like techno record [TS]

  or whatever and James Hetfield's looks [TS]

  like the looks of these three guys these [TS]

  three just like you know young dudes and [TS]

  it goes alright can you imagine us to [TS]

  imagine as playing like to a click track [TS]

  with Lars and then it goes [TS]

  duh and does this air drumming like like [TS]

  duh dum don't go ahead as hell did this [TS]

  hell did this and this friend of mine I [TS]

  mean they're all their chins just hit [TS]

  the floor because large is standing 15 [TS]

  feet well my god and Hadfield is like [TS]

  can you imagine us trying to play to a [TS]

  click track with this ding-dong [TS]

  duh I'm ward oil and kidding no and this [TS]

  buddy of mine was like it was basically [TS]

  the most badass thing I've ever seen [TS]

  James Hetfield openly mocking Lars in [TS]

  front of everybody and and I is [TS]

  inconceivable inconceivable metal moment [TS]

  and here and here it happened to it [TS]

  happened at this i am one kiss away from [TS]

  this story a man that I know very well [TS]

  was standing in that group and says that [TS]

  this happened [TS]

  am i esteem for James Hadfield goes [TS]

  through the roof [TS]

  you know he's talked about half a dozen [TS]

  times he's the good one at field is the [TS]

  good one there one after that some kind [TS]

  of monster thing I could barely I can [TS]

  barely stand to see any of their faces [TS]

  that was that was that was a slog [TS]

  yeah so apparently it's not a mystery [TS]

  it's not a mystery james hetfield that [TS]

  larger orange is the worst drummer and [TS]

  the first of all you don't think he was [TS]

  just fun and like for the kids [TS]

  mm I don't know this is here starting [TS]

  pretty hard you know [TS]

  ok we're definitely coming to that in 30 [TS]

  seconds [TS]

  here's the thing as something like that [TS]

  james hetfield has been through a lot of [TS]

  meetings I don't think that's the kind [TS]

  of thing you say once maybe not i'm no [TS]

  no here's what I'm saying I'm saying [TS]

  that like talking to this dumbass is [TS]

  probably that is probably i'm just [TS]

  guessing that was not the first time [TS]

  that that revelation occurred to him in [TS]

  that particularly clownish format you [TS]

  think he's playing to the cheap seats i [TS]

  do not i think i do not i think i think [TS]

  he doesn't like the drumming of his [TS]

  drummer and they're in a business [TS]

  relationship that he's obligated to be [TS]

  in because it's probably pretty [TS]

  lucrative it's like the way gene Simmons [TS]

  talks about Paul Stanley what you say [TS]

  about pasta alle gene simmons is [TS]

  incredibly dismissive of Paul Stanley [TS]

  like to display such a small little man [TS]

  is a terrible person is that he subject [TS]

  is the Donald Trump of metal [TS]

  hey and you know and and you know I wish [TS]

  and get into that ok [TS]

  sporting talk about music probably but [TS]

  but but so so Lars Ulrich the idea being [TS]

  that you know he's got he's got moves [TS]

  and stuff but you can really keep the [TS]

  beat [TS]

  oh he's the worst is that right you know [TS]

  I'm a time when really she's probably I [TS]

  don't know the guy he probably find have [TS]

  a beer with but i don't think so i think [TS]

  it would be terrible to have a beer with [TS]

  yeah he is on that he is definitely in [TS]

  the supergroup of worst musicians ever [TS]

  really Lars Lars Ulrich on the drums [TS]

  anthony kiedis and vocals all do you let [TS]

  you literally not get me started your [TS]

  sin case the finest and what you're [TS]

  saying that John erotic you're not just [TS]

  saying like it's not about the shaggs [TS]

  we're talking about people who like had [TS]

  records may have advanced a gold record [TS]

  and have a reprehensible level of non [TS]

  skill at what are supposedly don't more [TS]

  on guitar haha [TS]

  this is a black eye in that one video is [TS]

  there is there is the doors guy right [TS]

  yeah yeah i think the video for light my [TS]

  fire on at solving he's got a big shiner [TS]

  yeah I walked into a door nah but I was [TS]

  good [TS]

  ok so who we ll be there there are a [TS]

  couple of guys in the doors that make it [TS]

  into this band but but but Densmore for [TS]

  his parts i mean John I don't like the [TS]

  doors no listening to listening to his [TS]

  guitar part so loud I think it's just [TS]

  like listening to somebody throw a [TS]

  guitar and a flight of stairs could even [TS]

  pick up a coffee [TS]

  I've never either i like a couple doors [TS]

  songs but I you know I've really had I [TS]

  State John and put time into and I still [TS]

  don't get the doors you know I feel like [TS]

  I should feel stupid like you know it's [TS]

  like my friends who can't get into the [TS]

  Smiths are selecting new york and i like [TS]

  I understand you know they just can't [TS]

  get into it but I have a lot of really [TS]

  smart friends for him the doors is [TS]

  probably one of their top five favorite [TS]

  bands of all time I think it might be [TS]

  some kind of mass hysteria I just don't [TS]

  understand it [TS]

  I'm starting my I'm starting to feel [TS]

  myself starting to change my 1 i'm [TS]

  starting to not understand culture [TS]

  anymore culture Big C ok really that [TS]

  you're reaching for your gun [TS]

  I just don't know is that were [TS]

  documented the other night with that [TS]

  line in it you don't get it done [TS]

  I've been watching live and what I'm [TS]

  sorry I'm feeling but I've been watching [TS]

  something about the Holocaust every [TS]

  night and last night I took a little [TS]

  decide route and watch Frank Capra's why [TS]

  we fight off which is pretty pretty [TS]

  great propaganda there's a great line [TS]

  whenever I hear the word culture I reach [TS]

  for my gun [TS]

  yeah alright who said that it was a [TS]

  pretty early national socialist quote [TS]

  you know maybe know but let's get back [TS]

  to the important John your American know [TS]

  I've been watching a lot of Holocaust [TS]

  stuff lately too and it isn't so much [TS]

  about the family affect me tell you [TS]

  about the film's h2 film stay the actual [TS]

  literal films they shot at the camps in [TS]

  1945 watch that for an hour and then you [TS]

  know what I did you know fuck you I i [TS]

  sat down and watched that entire [TS]

  six-part outwits thing on x201 I told [TS]

  you about of the bbc1 yeah after last [TS]

  phone call you talk about this is a [TS]

  literally [TS]

  I seen her pic from beginning to end [TS]

  doesn't that make you happy [TS]

  oh my god it was so well done it yeah it [TS]

  was a great party was a great show and [TS]

  also the message of it is like no one [TS]

  invented the Holocaust it was the [TS]

  product of it was the product of a [TS]

  hundred people all trying to do their [TS]

  jobs a little bit better [TS]

  yes out yes a hundred percent and then [TS]

  but I guess what [TS]

  well two things occurred to me and I'm [TS]

  really doing here I apologize did two [TS]

  things that occurred to me please [TS]

  continue two things I'm first of all I [TS]

  guess I know I mean I knew that the camp [TS]

  started as concentration camps in the [TS]

  true sense of the word not as death [TS]

  camps right or I guess they were kind of [TS]

  you know slave labor camps but they're [TS]

  mostly places to put you know religious [TS]

  initially there were places to put [TS]

  Russian but captured sounds like they [TS]

  got it worse than just about anybody [TS]

  yeah but nobody's counting the Russian [TS]

  dead in world war two because it's like [TS]

  20 million people you can't even count [TS]

  that high but I was as two things struck [TS]

  me is an amount of scholar here but it [TS]

  struck me first of all in my head I go [TS]

  okay [TS]

  Nazi death camps 1942 1945 like april of [TS]

  nineteen forty-five i'm imagining that [TS]

  there are as gas and crematoria for like [TS]

  six solid years and that was simply not [TS]

  the case it wasn't really kicking in [TS]

  until like 42 43 and then they were [TS]

  already kind of shutting it down to 44 [TS]

  did all that in like three years [TS]

  yeah yeah they were killing 15,000 [TS]

  20,000 people a day [TS]

  hey / camp I mean they once they got it [TS]

  they were like let's get this done [TS]

  well there's the guy and there's like [TS]

  the guy you know it's like the famous [TS]

  toyota that was before they went to the [TS]

  Toyota plant and I see what you're doing [TS]

  here at your blanket if this guy this [TS]

  guy [TS]

  RCMP Tony again up god-king fucking song [TS]

  but the longer it goes the trip like and [TS]

  he's like wow you guys got a good thing [TS]

  going on here let's see what we can do a [TS]

  over here [TS]

  yeah you don't so close but the second [TS]

  thing you know what really grabbed me is [TS]

  I don't know if this is the source of [TS]

  your anecdote but on our Hitler and [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  visit when you told the story about the [TS]

  the French people [TS]

  and parents separating the the mothers [TS]

  from their children and how it was the [TS]

  french that we're doing it it's like [TS]

  when I think that was and watched I've [TS]

  been so steeped in Nazis lately i could [TS]

  be getting the wrong i think that was [TS]

  from the Auschwitz one [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah i mean and i can [TS]

  recommend that to our listeners if [TS]

  you're if you're looking for a lot you [TS]

  know what we should just have a an [TS]

  annotated bibliography of all the bring [TS]

  down things you can listen you could [TS]

  watch on your television i have a roku [TS]

  with 700 channels i have an apple TV [TS]

  with about 70 purchase movies on it and [TS]

  I spent everything about Paul look after [TS]

  my family goes to sleep I sit in the [TS]

  dark and watch things about the [TS]

  Holocaust by myself [TS]

  yeah but that seems healthy that own [TS]

  Scientology I've been thinking a lot [TS]

  about the ontology look good you learn [TS]

  you grow your ground on top huh yeah um [TS]

  I don't know [TS]

  you know I go I go around the world [TS]

  here's the here's the problem i go out [TS]

  in the world I live in Seattle the [TS]

  biggest problem we have here is that [TS]

  sometimes there will be four people at a [TS]

  four-way stop and no one will go first [TS]

  and all four people will end up dying [TS]

  that was that's like to think that is [TS]

  the biggest problem natural causes get [TS]

  all died of natural causes that all [TS]

  asphyxiate on there on the fumes from [TS]

  there idling engines because no one can [TS]

  figure out they gotta mpi they call a [TS]

  Travel a moment you gently pull over [TS]

  pull over and listen to StoryCorps you [TS]

  cry a little bit you fucking die in your [TS]

  Volvo died in your Volvo that's how [TS]

  that's the worst thing that happens in [TS]

  Washington State you know a couple of [TS]

  rock'n'roll county administrator on will [TS]

  be for dead people have been for boys [TS]

  and the thing is when they die they're [TS]

  there they take their feet off their [TS]

  brakes and the four Volvo's all creeped [TS]

  into the intersection at the same moment [TS]

  and make a swastika haha [TS]

  that's the worst thing that happens [TS]

  that's and yes mr. and all the other [TS]

  onlookers come by first they're going to [TS]

  they're gonna give him CPR but then they [TS]

  just hit spoofs uh but i'm watching [TS]

  Holocaust documentaries and reading [TS]

  books about the UH now you might think [TS]

  now I'm afraid I am afraid to tell you [TS]

  this but my thing now is the war in [TS]

  Bosnia oh that was bad i'm reading all [TS]

  this stuff about Bosnia and and and so i [TS]

  might I thought my head with this [TS]

  information which is real and then I go [TS]

  out into the world and i'm trying to [TS]

  interact with people who are mad at each [TS]

  other because somebody said somebody you [TS]

  know tweeted about Steubenville Ohio but [TS]

  used the wrong hashtag and I'm thinking [TS]

  right I'm thinking 20 20,000 people were [TS]

  gassed on this day in history it in at [TS]

  Auschwitz 20,000 people today you know [TS]

  like babies you know about how about [TS]

  some about systemized rate in our adult [TS]

  life like that is 1990s yet oh no i mean [TS]

  like both nothing about the systematic [TS]

  part it's like 1994 and that was [TS]

  happening 1994 was happening here this [TS]

  is our this is our link i mean i don't [TS]

  know i mean to sound you know know [TS]

  people walking out of their houses and [TS]

  getting sniped by their next-door [TS]

  neighbors because they are because [TS]

  they're Muslim Bosnians instead of [TS]

  Orthodox Bosnians and I don't know how [TS]

  to contextualize the one whom the one [TS]

  humanity and my present humanity [TS]

  except except in a way that casts the my [TS]

  present humanity the one that I interact [TS]

  with every day in Seattle in a [TS]

  terrifying light like I this was the [TS]

  problem i had when i walked across [TS]

  Europe I is why i was perceiving [TS]

  everyone as a dormant [TS]

  mass killer and I look around my fellow [TS]

  citizens in Seattle and I'm i cannot [TS]

  take away the feeling that everyone here [TS]

  is just waiting to be a bureaucrat in [TS]

  some kind of like a systematic death [TS]

  machine if they are just given if [TS]

  they're just given like twenty percent [TS]

  off on their next Boober ride you know [TS]

  what I mean like oh it's just it just [TS]

  seems like it just seems like the stakes [TS]

  of everything and this is why this is [TS]

  why cause I'm I'm just turning against [TS]

  culture of all kinds on you you wanna [TS]

  get back to the capital C culture [TS]

  because people people are talking people [TS]

  because I wrote that punk rock article [TS]

  that that was based on the conversation [TS]

  that you and I had on our podcast i [TS]

  wrote an article for the Seattle Weekly [TS]

  about punk rock and i took a strident [TS]

  tone i took my typical declarative tone [TS]

  uu inhabited the view point where [TS]

  instead of saying I do not like olives i [TS]

  said i love suck and if you like olives [TS]

  are an idiot's and to me that is the bet [TS]

  is essentially the same as saying is [TS]

  they still became with you guys you guys [TS]

  I do not prefer olives at the end no [TS]

  good essays begin with [TS]

  fuck you if you like olives shut-eye [TS]

  normal i don't mind to maintain when he [TS]

  can make his best looks like what it [TS]

  dear audience [TS]

  fuck you a band this was this or this [TS]

  article within the first two days of it [TS]

  being published was the most read [TS]

  article in the history of the Seattle [TS]

  Weekly and had a hundred and fifty [TS]

  thousand unique views by like x 72 hours [TS]

  bananas and a thousand the lab the last [TS]

  time I heard it a thousand comments and [TS]

  been growing and I was you know I was [TS]

  can I was impressed first of all about [TS]

  about ninety percent of the responses [TS]

  that made their way to me made it [TS]

  updated all the way through to me were [TS]

  positive generally positive like an [TS]

  either [TS]

  yes i agree with you or I disagree with [TS]

  you but it is hilarious [TS]

  good job [TS]

  they were sensible yeah but this ten [TS]

  percent of people who so strongly [TS]

  identified with punk as a concept house [TS]

  a strong so strongly identified [TS]

  themselves in their lives with this with [TS]

  this cultural little beanie cap that you [TS]

  know that they that they basically [TS]

  confirmed every ridiculous bias that I [TS]

  every exaggerated bias that I wrote in [TS]

  my article they confirmed it in spades [TS]

  with their death threats and they're you [TS]

  know they're like uh you suck because [TS]

  your dad had a job comments and you know [TS]

  and like you don't know anything about [TS]

  anything because fuck you you haven't [TS]

  been to my all ages venue in orlando and [TS]

  all this stuff and I'm just like as at [TS]

  as much as my response to it I mean [TS]

  definitely one of the things I realized [TS]

  was maybe if I am seeking a larger [TS]

  audience [TS]

  I should prepare people for for what i [TS]

  consider to be a fairly hilarious [TS]

  declarative style i should give them a [TS]

  little like advanced notice like oh by [TS]

  the way I don't really give a fuck about [TS]

  your thing just an asshole but I feel [TS]

  like that I feel like it but that should [TS]

  be apparent just from the picture just [TS]

  from the picture of me at that they have [TS]

  the head of the article you look at me [TS]

  and you're like oh this guy come on [TS]

  let's look at this asshole but but also [TS]

  I came out the other side feeling like [TS]

  culture really really punk-rock really [TS]

  it's all it's all just this guy's Muslim [TS]

  that guy's Orthodox and it all leads to [TS]

  one thing now in my head which is that [TS]

  one day this this group of skinheads [TS]

  puts that group of skinheads up against [TS]

  the wall [TS]

  I can't get I can't break this this dark [TS]

  feeling about humans and and all of [TS]

  their little all of their little etsy [TS]

  cufflinks and all of their all of the [TS]

  doilies on the backs of their couches [TS]

  and everybody's you know like the effort [TS]

  they put into getting the earwax out and [TS]

  the nose hairs trimmed it all just seems [TS]

  like shaving a pig and I had and so what [TS]

  it is doing is it's putting this [TS]

  distance between me and my books even [TS]

  i'm looking at my books and I'm like mm [TS]

  it's a bunch of self-justification a lot [TS]

  of it a lot of it is just like I think i [TS]

  could put i think i could pull for books [TS]

  out of my shelves that I would take with [TS]

  me you know like Carrie to the next wave [TS]

  and the rest of it is all just it's just [TS]

  people writing for me novels and people [TS]

  people trying to justify what their [TS]

  grandfathers did and a lot of its [TS]

  variations on a theme around i mean i [TS]

  think this especially on the internet [TS]

  with what you're describing here which [TS]

  is that you know they're certainly [TS]

  there's certainly no dearth of rants and [TS]

  different kinds of polemic but and when [TS]

  those when you're pulling when one's [TS]

  polemic reaches people on the other side [TS]

  of the fence it just it usually does [TS]

  lead to just a shouting match regardless [TS]

  of how smart or stupid the polemic was [TS]

  but you know not so far off early [TS]

  etsy cufflinks i think i feel more and [TS]

  more pressure not just me but I mean I [TS]

  think I pressure on people in general [TS]

  want more pressure to serve the audience [TS]

  that you decided to identify with and so [TS]

  and but you but in you writing an [TS]

  alternative weekly taking that tone take [TS]

  some things such a strong point of view [TS]

  on that tone and and not coming at it [TS]

  from you know as an insider or not [TS]

  coming at it from anywhere inside the me [TS]

  who's more inside [TS]

  well you should come I'll ages club in [TS]

  orlando I've been that all ages club in [TS]

  orlando and you [TS]

  what I'm not paying for dollars for a [TS]

  Fanta well a lot of the stuff that i [TS]

  read from people who i like a lot and [TS]

  are really smart and produce something [TS]

  like what you're talking about here [TS]

  do you still taste and I do this all the [TS]

  time anytime I have something with [TS]

  strong point of view i will have an [TS]

  element of you guys to it where I feel [TS]

  like I need to say first of all I just [TS]

  want to say yeah I can't do it [TS]

  number 10 I'm just saying though the [TS]

  number two you guys just this seriously [TS]

  and the thing is it doesn't fucking [TS]

  matter you can say all of those things [TS]

  all you want a good editor would cut all [TS]

  of those out and cut straight to the [TS]

  lead which is here what here's what you [TS]

  have to say and people can agree or [TS]

  disagree with that but [TS]

  disagree with that but [TS]

  you know there's no because this is what [TS]

  happened to Galileo he was like I've [TS]

  been reading a been reading Copernicus [TS]

  and i agree with them the Sun revolves [TS]

  around for the Earth revolves around the [TS]

  Sun and mix them up to [TS]

  I had the Sun worth whatever I forget it [TS]

  forget sometimes it seems like the Sun [TS]

  revolves around the earth [TS]

  this is the problem you know he said he [TS]

  said I agree with this guy this was you [TS]

  know this is 50 years ago whatever bye [TS]

  agree with them and he didn't say i was [TS]

  saying that from Galileo's perspectives [TS]

  and I know and and and and he didn't say [TS]

  turn into dick campus you know one of [TS]

  the most talked-about you don't know [TS]

  what you're talking about heliocentrism [TS]

  he said that you ever notice that Peter [TS]

  until he he didn't say you guys guys [TS]

  guys I know what I'm going to say sounds [TS]

  radical and might upset the entire power [TS]

  structure of our heavily religion based [TS]

  society so they pushed him down they [TS]

  push them down and they made him that [TS]

  they really you know they really held [TS]

  his head in the toilet and flushed it a [TS]

  couple of times and said yeah what do [TS]

  you say now what do you say now I mean [TS]

  this is no this is no fun people have [TS]

  been laughing together I'm not laughing [TS]

  but people have tisk tisk and shook [TS]

  their heads at Galileo for ever since [TS]

  five hundred years I have been I don't [TS]

  know about you I don't know enough to [TS]

  disk but both just came because he liked [TS]

  usually you know he didn't stand his [TS]

  ground get burned at the stake [TS]

  whatever but I but something there's a [TS]

  couple things and I'm trying to teach [TS]

  that you're teasing out here what one is [TS]

  this theme of once you have thought a [TS]

  lot about zyklon-b business [TS]

  relationships and the people who [TS]

  supplied the drop them into little mesh [TS]

  tube it's hard to take public zoning [TS]

  meetings that seriously [TS]

  well it's not that it's about public [TS]

  stoning meetings are maybe the thing to [TS]

  take most serial yet property rights and [TS]

  but but i was reading an interesting [TS]

  article the other day that ma and the [TS]

  thing that the thing that dropped out of [TS]

  it the little the little quote the drop [TS]

  document and it was one of these things [TS]

  where the writer had to see [TS]

  he knew he knew that what he was saying [TS]

  was going to be breezed over by most [TS]

  readers and so he had to say it three [TS]

  times in order to make sure that we got [TS]

  what he was saying but what he was [TS]

  saying was that he was kind of [TS]

  paraphrasing oliver wendell holmes and [TS]

  he was saying to the point of democracy [TS]

  is just that we live democratically if [TS]

  we are living democratically that then [TS]

  democracy has fulfilled its purpose the [TS]

  point of democracy is not to create a [TS]

  better society it is not to make sure [TS]

  there are no poor it is not to make sure [TS]

  the kids do not go hungry the point of [TS]

  democracy is just that we are Democrat [TS]

  that we are democratic and it does not [TS]

  end in mind is the process that [TS]

  yeah Primus exactly and we we constantly [TS]

  make we constantly make the mistake of [TS]

  thinking on both sides of you know the [TS]

  American political spectrum that the [TS]

  point of democracy is two is that we [TS]

  reach a consensus on all these topics or [TS]

  that the middle and everybody gets a [TS]

  vote on how we round this off so yeah [TS]

  that the majority is going to rule and [TS]

  therefore the majority has got to find [TS]

  the way to this but to the truth i guess [TS]

  and we spend all of our time yelling at [TS]

  each other when really democracy is [TS]

  succeed in and that is the that is it [TS]

  the end like democracy is the process [TS]

  works there is no other goal and but it [TS]

  a different approach than most people [TS]

  would say well yeah and and that then [TS]

  that's why you know that's why reading [TS]

  and i was like huh [TS]

  and-and-and with that in mind [TS]

  it feels like all the disputes are [TS]

  recapitulation of the same disputes they [TS]

  are all if we know that on one end there [TS]

  is democracy and on the other end there [TS]

  are death camps and in between there are [TS]

  lots of things at stake but it's always [TS]

  been hard for me to get down at the [TS]

  level of standing out in front of the [TS]

  natural food co-op with a with a [TS]

  clipboard and stopping people to talk [TS]

  about the Clean Air Act i mean i i've [TS]

  done it I but it's hard for me to it's [TS]

  hard for me to be that invested in that [TS]

  level of like this next incremental step [TS]

  is really what I'm devoting myself to [TS]

  but but I'm having a really hard time [TS]

  living out at the living out of the [TS]

  fringe to neither neither fringe place [TS]

  is very comfortable [TS]

  yeah I I feel the same way um you know [TS]

  another thing is i guess it's helpful to [TS]

  figure out what you know how we're going [TS]

  to finally democracy means but the first [TS]

  thing comes to mind for me is democracy [TS]

  in the same way as being like social [TS]

  media in a sense that with social media [TS]

  each of us tend to think of it in one [TS]

  way or another as publishing we publish [TS]

  something we talk about it [TS]

  somebody published something and we [TS]

  talked about it but you know I wonder [TS]

  how many people who are heavily involved [TS]

  in social media would would want to [TS]

  participate if all they could do is read [TS]

  what other people had to say and in [TS]

  democracy we see most interested in [TS]

  democracy in the sense that we get to [TS]

  vote arm and I think for my guess is [TS]

  that for most people it's not as [TS]

  interesting there's lots of other people [TS]

  voting too because then that breaks [TS]

  straight down into the partisan blahdy [TS]

  blah blah let's do about this again on [TS]

  Twitter kind of stuff [TS]

  that's why i have so much Aloha for [TS]

  things like the ACLU and for Judaism in [TS]

  general general because the ACLU is not [TS]

  doesn't really care what your point of [TS]

  view is they just want to make sure you [TS]

  have a way to say it and I just see did [TS]

  I just take a glimpse of the matrix [TS]

  there you might have [TS]

  it's gone now alright have it then i [TS]

  also have this way i can never do this [TS]

  but I have an admiration for this [TS]

  culture and Judaism of just arguing all [TS]

  the time for the sake of argument I mean [TS]

  it's really part it's it's part of what [TS]

  you do if you're if you're going to be [TS]

  in a scholarly tradition am I wrong like [TS]

  a lot of what you do is talk about what [TS]

  this means and what is right and and [TS]

  that's it's not like you're ever going [TS]

  to end it and go you know you which mall [TS]

  you know it this is the whole point is [TS]

  to have this argument that's what we do [TS]

  and you never think of it as an argument [TS]

  I mean it's just it's a conversation [TS]

  that goes on and on and on and involves [TS]

  and sometimes somebody make it a dinner [TS]

  in that makes it into the book the final [TS]

  stitches what the culture is I said this [TS]

  the other day and tweeted it was and I [TS]

  meant it sir [TS]

  sardonically but now i'm now I'm [TS]

  thinking about it differently based on [TS]

  what you're saying like I said another [TS]

  seven billion people in the world and i [TS]

  can't wait until each one finds their [TS]

  voice and I i meant it in the sense that [TS]

  we cannot possibly we cannot possibly [TS]

  sustain this we cannot possibly [TS]

  sustained through seven billion people [TS]

  the amount of like narcissistic self [TS]

  reflection that the that the 20 million [TS]

  Americans who are on Twitter right now [TS]

  are indulging themselves in but maybe [TS]

  what you're saying is what like seven [TS]

  billion people all arguing [TS]

  simultaneously will create some kind of [TS]

  ticker tape [TS]

  of of consensus knowledge is it depends [TS]

  on signal [TS]

  yeah maybe i'm just i can I mean I I'm [TS]

  very cynical about this i have to admit [TS]

  and I this is the fifth time probably i [TS]

  set it on here but it always it always [TS]

  strikes me that you know that people are [TS]

  so much more interested in persuading [TS]

  other people to a think that the think [TS]

  the way that they do even if it's really [TS]

  fucked up silly way of thinking but then [TS]

  to be thinking away that comports with [TS]

  how that would be advantageous to me [TS]

  there's not that many people who spend [TS]

  all day going out there and trying to [TS]

  listen to other people to develop a [TS]

  better view point i don't but the point [TS]

  is in in all these cases what I'm [TS]

  getting out poorly is that all the [TS]

  people who crow about how great all [TS]

  these things are are mostly just did [TS]

  their current a lot about themselves [TS]

  people who love democracy love their [TS]

  their democracy the people of social [TS]

  media love their social media the people [TS]

  who have freedom love their freedom the [TS]

  it's just that there are these these [TS]

  increasingly useless and slippery [TS]

  capital letter nouns that we fight over [TS]

  all the time and I'm not sure how far we [TS]

  get with it because you know it really [TS]

  is more about talking and listening and [TS]

  that is never clear then we start [TS]

  yelling at each other about politics as [TS]

  i said at nauseam and gets back to this [TS]

  old idea of mine we said again before [TS]

  which is like when's the last time you [TS]

  change your mind cause somebody yelled [TS]

  action called you dumb ass [TS]

  I mean there's so much of that going on [TS]

  there's not that many people out there [TS]

  going to show me how i'm a dumbass [TS]

  because i want to get better at this [TS]

  democracy i want ultimately this is the [TS]

  thing about the Bosnian war that this is [TS]

  what is so dispiriting about it is that [TS]

  for however many years 50 years they all [TS]

  lived under Tito more or less peacefully [TS]

  side-by-side and whatever their disputes [TS]

  were whatever the arguments were [TS]

  whatever the [TS]

  whatever the whatever they arrived at [TS]

  whatever their process was ultimately [TS]

  when there was nobody watching they just [TS]

  killed each other because of what their [TS]

  religion was or or what they perceived [TS]

  their ethnicity and ethnicities were [TS]

  although they were all slobs as far as I [TS]

  could tell anybody anybody anybody [TS]

  that's not a slob looked at the mall [TS]

  been like I don't know y'all look like [TS]

  slobs your blonde your darker Yeltsin [TS]

  that big noses but their little my new [TS]

  differences in there it's lava tudes was [TS]

  enough and and they and they killed each [TS]

  other not i mean just brutally just the [TS]

  worst kind of brutal like ethnic [TS]

  cleansing and so I mean they're not [TS]

  dissimilar from the cities and the Hutus [TS]

  I mean same thing I mean that the in [TS]

  Rwanda it was I think worse because it [TS]

  was being done with hatchets is cut your [TS]

  arms off but but but that said like if [TS]

  you are a parent and someone comes and [TS]

  takes your child on your handed and then [TS]

  kills them in front of you it's pretty [TS]

  bad no matter what weapon they use but [TS]

  but so I so I listened to our national [TS]

  debate and I listened to the peanut the [TS]

  way that we're pushing them and pushing [TS]

  the ball back and forth were pushing [TS]

  pushing the debate we're making the case [TS]

  for all these different things and I [TS]

  just I am drawn back to the drawing [TS]

  board [TS]

  to the the apparatus that it's [TS]

  supporting that i'm i'm i'm i'm drawn to [TS]

  the the Capitol building in Washington [TS]

  DC and I pray to God that it that it's [TS]

  that it stands you know i'm drawn back [TS]

  to the to the process because I'm no [TS]

  longer interested so much in the [TS]

  conversation because without the process [TS]

  the conversation just it devolves [TS]

  instantly you know like like we we have [TS]

  pushed that we have pushed the human [TS]

  rights ball pretty far in the last [TS]

  hundred years but in 1994 in in Bosnia [TS]

  and in 1996 in Rwanda when was it and [TS]

  remember me soon [TS]

  and unlike them i mean the ball got [TS]

  pushed all the way back all the way back [TS]

  to where it started like in the blink of [TS]

  an eye and it didn't matter that there [TS]

  were that they were modern countries or [TS]

  that inner none of it mattered and the [TS]

  this this this feeling that i because [TS]

  what happened was I said somebody a [TS]

  friend of mine wrote me based on [TS]

  something i said on the podcast is quote [TS]

  the Martin Luther King quote where I [TS]

  said the the arc of history is long but [TS]

  it bends toward justice [TS]

  and this friend of mine wrote me he was [TS]

  like do you really believe that [TS]

  and you know and I said it kind of at [TS]

  the time [TS]

  sort of like hopeful / aspirational and [TS]

  also a little bit like here's a cliche [TS]

  but you know the art [TS]

  history is long and on the one hand and [TS]

  part of that length is that sometimes it [TS]

  it goes all the way back to the start [TS]

  I don't see that happening in San [TS]

  Francisco but died but i also have not [TS]

  you know i am not a hundred percent [TS]

  clear as the father of a daughter I'm [TS]

  not a hundred percent clear how to [TS]

  advise her as she grows up [TS]

  like what kind of world she lives and I [TS]

  don't want to just be here I don't want [TS]

  to say don't get into a car with a bunch [TS]

  of strange boys who have been drinking [TS]

  and feel like I've done as much as I can [TS]

  do but I'm at a loss [TS]

  well how do you how do you know um how [TS]

  do you know when it's going well with [TS]

  the process I mean and I i know you you [TS]

  have to keep a certain removed from [TS]

  Daniel day-lewis don't think about that [TS]

  Lincoln movie which I watched a couple [TS]

  times and I thought was pretty great and [TS]

  just the whole idea of like how and I [TS]

  don't again I don't know how much of it [TS]

  is precisely factual but the whole idea [TS]

  of like all the you know everything you [TS]

  would ever hear about in terms of you [TS]

  know smokey backroom stuff to get off [TS]

  the wheeling and dealing and bribing and [TS]

  this end of that to get the 13th [TS]

  amendment across you know i mean in that [TS]

  is in some sense the system working [TS]

  right i mean if that's how it's always [TS]

  been there [TS]

  I don't think there's ever been a day [TS]

  where everybody just showed up and was [TS]

  no Bolin agreed by mutual assent that [TS]

  everything will be great if that's part [TS]

  of the process the right i mean that's [TS]

  part of that as they say the sausage [TS]

  getting made right and how do you have [TS]

  you known in the middle of the bloodiest [TS]

  war in American history where where you [TS]

  know where Sherman burned atlanta he was [TS]

  burning atlanta at but that's have fed [TS]

  that very moment I haven't seen the [TS]

  movie but but but he had to do I mean [TS]

  according to the point of this movie had [TS]

  to do some pretty pretty big for honesty [TS]

  here to do some pretty big fitting [TS]

  because that the none of it was that [TS]

  even people who were sort of probable [TS]

  the amendment were saying well you know [TS]

  if this war is gonna end and we think it [TS]

  might be basically they're making the [TS]

  south is making moves to say hey look [TS]

  let's talk about how we can win this [TS]

  thing down this is this is two or three [TS]

  months before the end and Lincoln's like [TS]

  going on you know we're still gonna make [TS]

  this happen and so they go and kind of [TS]

  systematically you know person by person [TS]

  it's a really good movie target they can [TS]

  get to vote for it because it's going to [TS]

  be such a close about anyway I'm just [TS]

  frustrated [TS]

  oh yeah but all that aside i'm just [TS]

  curious though what one way out of this [TS]

  incredibly depressing morass is-is-is [TS]

  know but like for example I i think i [TS]

  think i understand and i think i'm with [TS]

  you about this idea that is it is a too [TS]

  fast to say like that the rhetoric is [TS]

  useful if it's in the service of the [TS]

  process but the process still has to has [TS]

  to work on some fundamental level that [TS]

  big pointy building has to have that [TS]

  happening in yeah 20 years ago i was i [TS]

  was very much like I was I was consumed [TS]

  with a fascination with um with [TS]

  american-style democracy and how [TS]

  important it was and how magical it was [TS]

  and how unlike anything that happened [TS]

  before in history it was and over the [TS]

  years my admiration for it i think got [TS]

  lost in the weeds of the way our culture [TS]

  has devolved and feeling time and time [TS]

  again that like oh well the system is [TS]

  not working very well then it's [TS]

  producing all these all these situations [TS]

  that are like that are uh they're just [TS]

  ugly [TS]

  it's it I feel like our nation is a [TS]

  bruised Apple but I feel like the only [TS]

  way out of my of my alien a [TS]

  mission is to go back up to the place [TS]

  where even in spite of the last 20 years [TS]

  american-style democracy is the most [TS]

  amazing technology [TS]

  and I and I and I i want to be a [TS]

  supporter of it and almost it requires [TS]

  that because I've never believed in [TS]

  non-partisanship I've always I've always [TS]

  thought it was just a thing that [TS]

  reporters lied about but you mean in [TS]

  terms of like fair and balanced I'm [TS]

  gonna walk this middle is non-existent [TS]

  middle yeah I don't believe I don't [TS]

  believe such a thing is true and yet I [TS]

  feel pulled mail to a place where my [TS]

  allegiance is to is to is to our [TS]

  Constitution and constitutional [TS]

  democracy and anything that serves it i [TS]

  am i am a friend of and anything that [TS]

  impedes it i am a foe of because all of [TS]

  the all of the pit fighting all the [TS]

  small beer [TS]

  uh I you know I leave to others i guess [TS]

  because at while i'm thinking of a way [TS]

  to to shore up the the edifice you know [TS]

  to shore up the hall where it's all [TS]

  taking place [TS]

  I don't know what I don't know I know [TS]

  right now I just was asked to be on the [TS]

  steering committee for the re-election [TS]

  of Seattle's mayor and I'm thinking in [TS]

  these terms like a getting getting back [TS]

  involved in democratic politics is [TS]

  thinking are you I can hear you being of [TS]

  two very different minds about I never [TS]

  thought I really want to get involved in [TS]

  this moretz democratic politics that I [TS]

  really fucking believe in but oh my god [TS]

  yeah well and I mean local politics are [TS]

  different in in the sense that i can put [TS]

  my hands on on the problems that the [TS]

  port of seattle yeah I grew up with it [TS]

  to some extent right i mean with your [TS]

  dad right on my uncle and everybody we [TS]

  already talked about local you know the [TS]

  the sewers and the and the parks but I [TS]

  don't know that this these Holocaust [TS]

  documentaries i cannot watch them and [TS]

  turn them off and then be free of the [TS]

  Holocaust you know I can't and I can't [TS]

  imagine you do either [TS]

  well I can't imagine otherwise I would [TS]

  have just watched one [TS]

  Yeah right right but you keep watching [TS]

  you keep trying can I think there's [TS]

  something I me not to be melodramatic [TS]

  it's it's amazing dramatic viewing but [TS]

  also i get i do keep looking for [TS]

  something that either makes a ton more [TS]

  sense or at unless sense because because [TS]

  when I find you know one or the other [TS]

  I don't know something feels maybe not [TS]

  explained but but it i don't know I you [TS]

  want you ever made it makes sense if [TS]

  Hitler is just a madman but when you [TS]

  realize that and one man didn't get that [TS]

  much accomplished [TS]

  yeah when you realize that the [TS]

  innovation the primary innovation at [TS]

  Auschwitz was that some lieutenants who [TS]

  realized that they were that they had [TS]

  this that they were they were fumigating [TS]

  their uniforms to kill the lice with [TS]

  this cyclone be stuff that was like a [TS]

  that was like an insecticide and he was [TS]

  like well what if we put this in the [TS]

  room with some humans like really really [TS]

  like fucking James Burke moment because [TS]

  it's around the same time the again this [TS]

  is somebody talked about on the phone [TS]

  the other day and unreleased call but [TS]

  you know it's too costly to have bullets [TS]

  you gotta dig all those pits and then [TS]

  they started writing the problems with [TS]

  like a while we've gotten really good at [TS]

  the gassing but now now we have to go [TS]

  build grills to augment the crematoria [TS]

  is now we can get rid of the bodies fast [TS]

  enough and it's just an engineering [TS]

  problem we deal with a little bit every [TS]

  week [TS]

  yeah we just hire this guy and the guy [TS]

  comes in and he's like well I'm an [TS]

  engineer but I can you know I don't have [TS]

  anything personally against like all [TS]

  these mothers the size interviews my god [TS]

  doesn't really just as you described as [TS]

  interviews with the guys who work there [TS]

  like that one guy who just just like now [TS]

  I just I just hate the Jews I don't know [TS]

  maybe not any of it [TS]

  the Jews were really a they were really [TS]

  you know making it hard on those Germans [TS]

  22 yeah a scale of is a new again let's [TS]

  go back to a million of these other [TS]

  kinds of you know us versus them things [TS]

  I you know what the juice screwed up my [TS]

  family you know side starting before [TS]

  world war one but then especially after [TS]

  you know where we will go around this in [TS]

  my words not his but you know push [TS]

  around these wheelbarrows full of [TS]

  useless money and all these guys with [TS]

  long beards are making bank off of it [TS]

  you know I I nothing just the other [TS]

  thing i mentioned to you from that I was [TS]

  sorry this is our first episode back in [TS]

  a while and I'm so and I'm just like so [TS]

  depressed [TS]

  yeah that'll help ya there might be [TS]

  people that is going to help you you [TS]

  could pick up all night watching Hitler [TS]

  people are going to people are driving [TS]

  across the world can stand there like a [TS]

  new episode of the line i'm gonna put it [TS]

  in and I'm gonna listen to lose my [TS]

  forever girl [TS]

  oh the thing that struck so what what I [TS]

  watched the other night that I was [TS]

  telling you about on the roku 700 [TS]

  channels i went straight to [TS]

  and watch 1945 government films you know [TS]

  this but basically they're real love [TS]

  five basically the the the army went in [TS]

  and I guess the Russians liberated most [TS]

  of the camps but basically they went in [TS]

  when stuff was still there still people [TS]

  there some living and they went in with [TS]

  cameras and they just straight-up [TS]

  fucking shot was there and they did not [TS]

  pull any punches [TS]

  it's really interesting to watch that [TS]

  starts with affidavits like a picture of [TS]

  the affidavit on screen as maybe 45 is [TS]

  not real [TS]

  hifi and one of them is the officer who [TS]

  is like in charge of the project the [TS]

  other affidavit is a filmmaker whose you [TS]

  know ben Phillips 1920 and he's been in [TS]

  the Army instead it on he's going to [TS]

  certify that all this is correct and [TS]

  they just don't jump straight into like [TS]

  I sunken mouth open corpses being [TS]

  carried out of mass graves the [TS]

  descriptions on and on it's completely [TS]

  appalling and i SAT and watched it for a [TS]

  pretty long while and it was just it's [TS]

  engrossing but it's awful but like i [TS]

  told you the of all all that awfulness [TS]

  since we all been party to seeing some [TS]

  of this awfulness and films and stuff [TS]

  before you know sixty years after but [TS]

  but in intelligence the one that really [TS]

  struck me so you know my eyes and our is [TS]

  it some of these things patent is it [TS]

  some of these things one of the other [TS]

  big guys forget who were there and you [TS]

  know they're walking through and in so [TS]

  many of these cases what they would go [TS]

  and this is what the victor gets to do [TS]

  they go into the village nearby you know [TS]

  ash which linker or you know [TS]

  bergen-belsen or whatever and you go in [TS]

  and you are they would pull out the [TS]

  local burgers [TS]

  maybe the mayor you bring in the [TS]

  citizens ladies and fancy hats have been [TS]

  eating fine for pretty much for floor [TS]

  heaters and they walk them through the [TS]

  fucking camp they walk them past the [TS]

  open graves they walk him they make them [TS]

  go in and show them you know all these [TS]

  deliberate killing devices there's just [TS]

  one scene though that is indelibly stuck [TS]

  in my mind which is it that they [TS]

  describe this one took a little shack [TS]

  right is it is pretty small little house [TS]

  and it's just it's just a pile of bodies [TS]

  i mean it's a pile of bodies like eight [TS]

  feet high just you can't tell what Lynn [TS]

  belongs to what trunk and it's just a [TS]

  big pile of bodies unlike that course is [TS]

  a lady because she's got long hair and [TS]

  it's apparently the stench in this [TS]

  thing was so overwhelming I mean you [TS]

  can't even imagine what a what a big [TS]

  pile of bodies would be like and they [TS]

  take the people from the village and the [TS]

  guys in in like fedoras and and you know [TS]

  bespoke suits and they walk them in and [TS]

  the officers stand there and watch them [TS]

  walk in and like and you can see the [TS]

  point in going you're going to go in [TS]

  there and you're gonna look at this and [TS]

  you're going to stand in this room for a [TS]

  few minutes and then after a few minutes [TS]

  they start filing out nobody's crying [TS]

  some people are holding handkerchiefs [TS]

  over there knows because it's obviously [TS]

  intolerable and the next scene is them [TS]

  shaking their heads they're not crying [TS]

  they are as they say in Scientology they [TS]

  are pie-faced they don't have any [TS]

  expression on their face and it's just [TS]

  the equivalent of like well I i don't i [TS]

  don't know about this i don't know what [TS]

  was this is yeah this is a thing I idea [TS]

  we didn't know about this i can help you [TS]

  and that's a me maybe it's just that [TS]

  that contrast of all this horribleness [TS]

  and me sitting here at you know at one [TS]

  in the morning watching this and just [TS]

  thinking what the fuck has happened in [TS]

  the last century but just the fact it [TS]

  that's this is that's what eats at me [TS]

  and it sounds get some part of what eats [TS]

  at you is the people who could walk out [TS]

  of there and as you said them you know [TS]

  the monster inside all of this like [TS]

  those guys had kids that they love those [TS]

  guys had grandkids those people went to [TS]

  church and stuff and they could walk out [TS]

  of there and just shake their head in [TS]

  fedora like well yeah that's not really [TS]

  bad [TS]

  well this is the mean part of the [TS]

  problem of the 20th century is that we [TS]

  have demonized the German people in a [TS]

  certain way the drug the Germans live in [TS]

  all of our minds in this in this strange [TS]

  public because on the one hand right [TS]

  post-war Germany like isn't it is both [TS]

  an economic miracle and also west [TS]

  germans were our allies in our pal [TS]

  Beatles were playing their 15 years [TS]

  after that [TS]

  yeah and and so like in in some ways we [TS]

  were able to convert our thinking on the [TS]

  Germans who like an interrupted from [TS]

  being our mortal enemies to then being [TS]

  the worst monsters in history to then [TS]

  being on the Reeperbahn in 60 you know [TS]

  63 we and you know like West Germany we [TS]

  shall Michelle and the reality is that [TS]

  the Germans are not monsters so and that [TS]

  somehow the lesson of the 20th century [TS]

  that we are all monsters did not get [TS]

  learned very well they're deliberate [TS]

  monsters and we did the things that we [TS]

  had to do to stop them but they have a [TS]

  special place in history as a country [TS]

  for being the worst monsters they did [TS]

  some terrible terrible monstrous things [TS]

  but Stalin killed way way more that's [TS]

  all right but if thats kinda get the [TS]

  right that's our constellation [TS]

  constellation is we have identified who [TS]

  the problem is here and it's not us [TS]

  it will never be us right but it was not [TS]

  very long after that that we were [TS]

  dropping flaming canisters of liquid [TS]

  like jelly gasoline jellied gasoline on [TS]

  villages of a full of naked children and [TS]

  like we are we have all we are all crazy [TS]

  and yet we are convinced that were [TS]

  saying and we're so Mary about it [TS]

  we're so quick to dismiss all of these [TS]

  instances as as unique or aberrational [TS]

  instances of terror of of terrible [TS]

  people doing terrible things over here [TS]

  in this corner is so confident our [TS]

  smugness and somehow we get up I i get [TS]

  on the freeway every day and I'm just [TS]

  driving down the street it's like all [TS]

  right this freeway is full of people in [TS]

  every one of them is a crazy animal and [TS]

  I yet i am confident that we will all [TS]

  stay in our lanes that the guy in front [TS]

  of me and the guy next to me and the guy [TS]

  behind me are going to stay in their [TS]

  fucking lanes and I feel safe and you [TS]

  know and it and through that same state [TS]

  that seem like painted lines on upon the [TS]

  pavement we are capable of a mass murder [TS]

  through the same process follow the [TS]

  yellow line follow line it's going to [TS]

  take a right and that's going to go down [TS]

  some stairs [TS]

  although yellow line got we're going to [TS]

  just gonna take a shower you know and so [TS]

  so I but those yellow lines are what you [TS]

  are what are getting that they guarantee [TS]

  me guaranteed to me that the guy driving [TS]

  a an 18-wheeler next to me isn't just [TS]

  going to decide you know what I'm just [TS]

  gonna kill everybody and he doesn't [TS]

  there will be consequences [TS]

  where where we are protected by the law [TS]

  from the people who who are foolish [TS]

  enough to not honor the yellow lines [TS]

  right and so the kid the kid in [TS]

  Connecticut goes crazy and shoots a [TS]

  bunch of people in a in an elementary [TS]

  school and we all have like a like a [TS]

  two-day national reckoning about it and [TS]

  it becomes a conversation about guns and [TS]

  yet I look around and I'm just like you [TS]

  know my neighbors are just they are we [TS]

  we have not we have not really moved the [TS]

  ball on asking ourselves who we are why [TS]

  be good [TS]

  why if we are not motivated by a fear of [TS]

  God and a fear of hell [TS]

  why else be good and i do not have a i [TS]

  do not have a satisfactory answer i [TS]

  cannot keep waking up and saying because [TS]

  of some complicated Darwinian family [TS]

  group survival model that is why we are [TS]

  nice to our neighbors because it is a [TS]

  it's a mutual mutually beneficial like [TS]

  food gathering group that is not that is [TS]

  not working and and I don't feel like [TS]

  all the effort that we have put into as [TS]

  human beings trying to discern the good [TS]

  trying to develop ethics and ethical [TS]

  system that is that hinges on on [TS]

  altruism or hinges on the idea that is [TS]

  not a Hobbesian world was somehow we've [TS]

  abandoned that project or were satisfied [TS]

  what we got as far as like Jefferson and [TS]

  where were fine with it then we all can [TS]

  meet your kind of made it look a little [TS]

  bit [TS]

  too dark in that room and we decided to [TS]

  like leave it to the French like nobody [TS]

  is nobody has a has a good answer [TS]

  religion is going bonkers everywhere why [TS]

  be good [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  so anyway yeah I got talking about cars [TS]

  already started by outer that was a good [TS]

  one [TS]