Roderick on the Line

Ep. 89: "Transparity"


  hello John [TS]

  hi Merlin how's it going good huh [TS]

  get all your stuff done got winded [TS]

  yeah I know gets it gets harder [TS]

  oh he's all over town today yeah tell me [TS]

  about what you do always rolling all [TS]

  over i had meetings that had a lunch [TS]

  meeting I had another meeting you took a [TS]

  lunch meeting i did at lunch but took a [TS]

  lunch meeting i did a TV interview I was [TS]

  over here I was over there son as we [TS]

  record this it is a it is very this is I [TS]

  believe our last episode before the [TS]

  election but cannot be right now I think [TS]

  there's one more isn't next monday still [TS]

  before the election is it you should [TS]

  know that that's why you're way you [TS]

  electioneering today my way here [TS]

  oh yeah yeah a yeah yeah next next [TS]

  monday is we're still still on them on [TS]

  the right side just on the off-chance [TS]

  you to decide on what if you decide to [TS]

  run for City Council i would go ahead [TS]

  and put that on the calendar just so you [TS]

  don't [TS]

  yeah well I feel like it might run for [TS]

  political office would have to be next [TS]

  election but I mean certainly any any [TS]

  listeners are welcome to write me in and [TS]

  maybe maybe we'll find out how [TS]

  far-reaching are our podcast cones two [TS]

  years goes by so we've done this show [TS]

  for like two years now [TS]

  that's right that's right if we had [TS]

  started two years ago maybe I'd be I'd [TS]

  be rounding out my campaign right now [TS]

  yeah I had a political meeting today one [TS]

  of my meetings was political [TS]

  I i would love to hear about I i will [TS]

  tell you privately i'll cut all this out [TS]

  I worry privately that when you are [TS]

  you're you're moving amongst certain [TS]

  corridors of power right now and I worry [TS]

  a little bit that you're saying too much [TS]

  are you okay with everything you're [TS]

  saying well this is the thing I i have [TS]

  increasingly been i've been having a lot [TS]

  of discussions with people and they keep [TS]

  saying like well I mean you know you're [TS]

  certainly a certainly in the running for [TS]

  this or that sort of if not elected [TS]

  job then like politically appointed job [TS]

  you could I could be higher right now in [TS]

  other words in a in a job in a political [TS]

  job eat you could be the recipient of [TS]

  some political largesse some largest [TS]

  that's right i could I could be a member [TS]

  i could get some patronage some [TS]

  political patronage sweet but it but in [TS]

  increasingly it has forced me just like [TS]

  all this involvement in politics the [TS]

  last year has forced me to clarify my [TS]

  feelings and this is the strange thing [TS]

  because you know you want it [TS]

  we always say to one another like we'll [TS]

  just decide what you want to do it like [TS]

  why don't you just tell me what you want [TS]

  that is a very common thing that we say [TS]

  and we and we direct that energy at that [TS]

  kids and teenagers to like what do you [TS]

  want to do with your life [TS]

  just just pick the thing you want to do [TS]

  it and and the actual fact is that a [TS]

  very small number of us know what the [TS]

  fuck we want and the I think the vast [TS]

  majority of us have no idea what we like [TS]

  even let alone we barely barely know [TS]

  what we think we want exactly and the [TS]

  whole really like we have like a 8 a 5 [TS]

  10 or perhaps thirty-five-year-old idea [TS]

  of what we wanted to and that we dare [TS]

  not actually financially update that [TS]

  were terrified to update to even open [TS]

  the closet door and look at our idea of [TS]

  what we think we want and that's the [TS]

  real you know the more I think about it [TS]

  that's the reason that there are [TS]

  newspapers and websites I mean all these [TS]

  people telling us what we want our but [TS]

  the reason we go to those things is that [TS]

  we're trying to finally read something [TS]

  that explains to us what we want and [TS]

  then I realize all those people writing [TS]

  about writing like these articles about [TS]

  what it is we should want or what is [TS]

  that that they think we should want they [TS]

  don't know what they want either they're [TS]

  just churning out this you know like [TS]

  here's the new thing here's the thing [TS]

  like is this what you want is this what [TS]

  you want and it's all people just trying [TS]

  to decide for themselves what they want [TS]

  nobody has the first idea so i'm looking [TS]

  at all of these I so as I got as i [TS]

  waited into politics and I was [TS]

  confronted with these questions like [TS]

  well our are you going to go with the [TS]

  guy that you said you were gonna go with [TS]

  who is going to lose or are you gonna [TS]

  step into the winner's circle and go [TS]

  with the guy that you don't know that's [TS]

  gonna win and I was like what do i want [TS]

  i feel now I feel bad I felt good a week [TS]

  ago when when everybody who seem to want [TS]

  me [TS]

  but now that i have to make a choice now [TS]

  I feel bad again and as as these options [TS]

  keep piling up and his people are like [TS]

  well you know mr. man that you know the [TS]

  mystery guy in charge was talking about [TS]

  you the other day and he's thinking that [TS]

  you might have an appetizer I'm [TS]

  realizing that whatever it is I have [TS]

  spent my life building it is a thing [TS]

  that I have built precisely so that I [TS]

  would never sell it to somebody for [TS]

  security or power even power right like [TS]

  i do not want to take a job I don't care [TS]

  what job is I don't want someone to give [TS]

  me a job if I wanted someone to give me [TS]

  a job I could have spent the last 20 [TS]

  years training myself to be given a job [TS]

  and instead i have spent that 20 years [TS]

  training myself to never ever ever work [TS]

  for somebody or be given anything and as [TS]

  I as I'm sort of cuddling up to these [TS]

  people and they're cuddling up to me the [TS]

  reason that they're cuddling up to me is [TS]

  that I clearly like I have something [TS]

  interesting that they want [TS]

  a piece up and i don't know i don't [TS]

  think it is so much that i have a [TS]

  constituency because that's unclear to [TS]

  everybody what that is I mean the first [TS]

  thing they want to know it's like how [TS]

  many how many people do you have that [TS]

  would follow you into the breach and I'm [TS]

  like anywhere between for me [TS]

  they put a look and I want to see the [TS]

  camp the night before haha i think is [TS]

  pretty cool what are you holding up your [TS]

  finger is a fake mustache but i think [TS]

  this battle is gonna go pretty great [TS]

  don't you don't you guys hear the odds [TS]

  are on our side for engine court but but [TS]

  but but but a rather what they want is [TS]

  you know I i think what interests these [TS]

  politicians is is exactly the thing that [TS]

  I have been that I've been working on [TS]

  which is a all that I have a voice and [TS]

  the second i took a job would be the [TS]

  beginning of a process of trying to [TS]

  quiet and tame my voice and if if [TS]

  somebody in in politics wants to give me [TS]

  a job as their community outreach [TS]

  liaison or their rock and roll a you [TS]

  know a rock-and-roll United Nations [TS]

  representative or whatever it is [TS]

  immediately there would be somebody said [TS]

  well listen i gotta tone down the [TS]

  supertrain talk because it's kind of [TS]

  scaring some of our some of the people [TS]

  that are you know that are really voting [TS]

  against the zipline project and and and [TS]

  thus would begin the death of me [TS]

  yeah and so I don't know exactly what to [TS]

  do I mean I i I'm honest with myself [TS]

  that I that I like this attention i like [TS]

  being taken out [TS]

  I like the I was driven around today in [TS]

  a car that was piloted by an undercover [TS]

  detective [TS]

  Wow and I was like this is cool like the [TS]

  driver of this vehicle is carrying a gun [TS]

  that their license to use if somebody [TS]

  steps in front of this car we could like [TS]

  turn the sirens all I could also because [TS]

  maybe he and John steps out of line they [TS]

  need somebody with some stopping power [TS]

  yeah I don't think that you know that [TS]

  they'll and starts friendly enough [TS]

  it's nice to get on the writer and you [TS]

  know and they everybody knows that i [TS]

  carry a piece of piano wire in my jacket [TS]

  they're not gonna let me sit behind them [TS]

  driver knowing that I could pull up you [TS]

  know [TS]

  hello Carlo how how are you Carlo and [TS]

  that John and his heir sets garage so so [TS]

  so I don't I honestly don't know I don't [TS]

  know how vulnerable i am to being [TS]

  co-opted because when I actually think [TS]

  about what i want you know and this was [TS]

  my mom's council I told you this right [TS]

  that she said you would hate running for [TS]

  office and you would hate being elected [TS]

  and because she walked my dad through [TS]

  half a dozen campaigns and was in [TS]

  politics all through the fifties and [TS]

  sixties and I was like come on who you [TS]

  know like I'm I bring something to the [TS]

  table and she was like bullshit you [TS]

  would get you know you hate powerpoint [TS]

  demonstrations and you think you're [TS]

  going to get up you're going to sit on [TS]

  the City Council do you know that it [TS]

  would be eight hours of PowerPoint [TS]

  demonstrations every day of your life [TS]

  I was like well but I mean I'd be the [TS]

  reform candidate she's like you don't [TS]

  you're here just so far up a tree [TS]

  you don't even know and she said you [TS]

  know yeah sure you're the reform [TS]

  candidate you get in there and you start [TS]

  thinking that you're reforming things [TS]

  and all you're doing is pissing off all [TS]

  the people who spent hours making this [TS]

  PowerPoint demonstration like you're the [TS]

  you're the one that put his feet up on [TS]

  the desk and mimes that your snoring who [TS]

  is going to be impressed by that like [TS]

  everybody's gonna be mad because this is [TS]

  the this is industry [TS]

  nobody's making a diagram to figure out [TS]

  how to get more of that guy [TS]

  no no nobody wants it that you don't [TS]

  need it anymore idea men in here [TS]

  everybody once it when the idea man is [TS]

  out of the picture you know like if you [TS]

  are if you are outside the corral and [TS]

  you're out there throwing pomegranates [TS]

  over the fence every once in a while [TS]

  someone is like know that guy he's [TS]

  hilarious where you know let's bring him [TS]

  in for a second and see what he has to [TS]

  say but but you don't you don't bring [TS]

  your bushel of pomegranates into the [TS]

  corral [TS]

  I mean that's i'm sorry i'm quoting [TS]

  somebody there but I got a I got a [TS]

  strong feeling on this [TS]

  yeah and it's I i have to essentially [TS]

  this is kind of right in your wheelhouse [TS]

  of loss really in my wheelhouse we talk [TS]

  about the work stuff i mean i realize [TS]

  like how much i don't i don't like [TS]

  working for other people not gonna put [TS]

  this here's a big pattern a big pattern [TS]

  is that when somebody gives you what [TS]

  appears to be power or gives you what [TS]

  appears to be largesse or you know [TS]

  anything that feels better than what [TS]

  you've got there figuring out the least [TS]

  amount of effort including money [TS]

  including power including you know [TS]

  square footage the least amount of [TS]

  anything possible to keep you [TS]

  neutralized and then we'll be gender [TS]

  normative but I mean that in the true [TS]

  sense of the word they want to they want [TS]

  to figure out how to something you can [TS]

  still be valuable but think about it [TS]

  like a chessboard [TS]

  I mean you know or think about in terms [TS]

  of like companies and the kinds of [TS]

  acquisitions that they do a lot of times [TS]

  they'll require a company just so nobody [TS]

  else can just Angela vol the party [TS]

  exactly exactly [TS]

  so I see this is relationships to it's [TS]

  always a good question of like you [TS]

  cannot cede power to someone else [TS]

  yea even within even in a couple's [TS]

  relationship you cannot say like I [TS]

  hereby give you the power to have me be [TS]

  in love with you like you you know what [TS]

  I mean you eat you can get any power [TS]

  that you seed to somebody else that you [TS]

  retain well nobody gives anybody enough [TS]

  power that they could choose to unseat [TS]

  them right [TS]

  that's one way to look at it so you know [TS]

  I'm trying to sound cynical about this [TS]

  but it's one reason i have not looked [TS]

  forward to going and having a job with [TS]

  somebody because the job is a way of [TS]

  saying like here's somebody who has [TS]

  certain amount of value to me and I need [TS]

  to give them just enough of something or [TS]

  some things to make it make them need me [TS]

  in some ways and so they want to say [TS]

  neutralize I I you know I you know you [TS]

  you don't want to give you know so i [TS]

  don't know i can't speak to politics but [TS]

  just in terms of jobs i mean people will [TS]

  sell you just these big dreams about how [TS]

  great this thing is going to be and [TS]

  they're all into you for this five [TS]

  minutes or whatever you know and they [TS]

  bring you in and they give you just [TS]

  enough that now so let's say they give [TS]

  you a job with you know let's say [TS]

  somebody gives you a job and offers you [TS]

  $500,000 here or something thats that's [TS]

  most of us would look at and go wow [TS]

  that's really a lot of money sold I'll [TS]

  take it [TS]

  yeah exactly but now you need that job [TS]

  ok you're going to start spending on [TS]

  stuff like we said before you can start [TS]

  spending on $500,000 year basis pretty [TS]

  quickly [TS]

  you're gonna need that job and you know [TS]

  just to get back to whether the [TS]

  godfather of the wire whatever flavor [TS]

  this is at some point you know it's [TS]

  going to be the day of your daughter's [TS]

  wedding and somebody's going to come to [TS]

  you and they're going to want something [TS]

  from you and you're not going to be in a [TS]

  position to say when you hired me [TS]

  because I'm an idea man and a [TS]

  troublemaker and I make fun of [TS]

  PowerPoint well that's not what they [TS]

  brought you in for [TS]

  that's it i'm not saying this is you but [TS]

  that's I suspected to similar impulse [TS]

  that we share where whenever somebody [TS]

  starts talking to big with me i know [TS]

  it's bullshit [TS]

  yeah you know I really admire people who [TS]

  say like hey here's this much money to [TS]

  do this thing that's worth that's really [TS]

  cool or you know I want you to interview [TS]

  me for your website because it'll help [TS]

  sell copies of my book [TS]

  oh my god i love you i love your the [TS]

  honesty of your cynicism instead of [TS]

  going hey man I love you [TS]

  well what's interesting about what you [TS]

  really want you want this thing that [TS]

  I've got and we find what amounts to a [TS]

  proper price for it and then we both [TS]

  move on but I mean the thing is when [TS]

  you're in politics it seems to me that a [TS]

  lot of is about neutralizing people or [TS]

  introducing a fear that they would never [TS]

  think of going to the other guy for [TS]

  example well what what what is appealing [TS]

  about [TS]

  is that is that in politics you are you [TS]

  are offered like the non cynical side of [TS]

  it is that you are offered the [TS]

  opportunity to help in a way that is [TS]

  substantive like all the stuff that we [TS]

  sit around arguing with all the time [TS]

  like how do we deal with the homeless [TS]

  problem the homeless problem is a [TS]

  problem and we can we have the we have [TS]

  the benefit of historical you know the [TS]

  retrospective insight to say like wow [TS]

  that whole decision to close the asylums [TS]

  in 1970 who was ultimately like not a [TS]

  not very well thought out like maybe the [TS]

  Cylons were ripe with the abuse maybe [TS]

  they were terrible environments but we [TS]

  didn't really think what would happen to [TS]

  those people and the rest of us are in a [TS]

  position of what writing angry letters [TS]

  to the editor or getting or maybe like [TS]

  going to public meetings and inch and [TS]

  banging our shoe on the table but the [TS]

  reality is that the homeless problem in [TS]

  san francisco in seattle like massively [TS]

  affect the quality of life in the city [TS]

  it's a massive undertaking to solve it [TS]

  but some of these people bet that are [TS]

  offering me like another there has been [TS]

  no offer but like cultivating me [TS]

  grooming you grooming me they are [TS]

  actually in a position and not just in a [TS]

  position from the standpoint of like I [TS]

  am in the position of power but they are [TS]

  interested in a solution to the homeless [TS]

  problem they are interested in it for [TS]

  the right reasons and they have worked [TS]

  their lives to put themselves into a [TS]

  position where they actually have a shot [TS]

  at trying something new and and the same [TS]

  is true of the schools and the same is [TS]

  true of the of the public transit you [TS]

  know they are not they are not in [TS]

  politics exclusively for cynical reasons [TS]

  they are they actually are interested in [TS]

  these things as i am interested in [TS]

  making a huge difference as i am and [TS]

  they actually are in a position to do it [TS]

  and they could the question for me is [TS]

  like that mean [TS]

  oh at lunch today I spent [TS]

  an hour-and-a-half talking to a guy [TS]

  about sewers power grids a water like [TS]

  water transit homelessness and we're [TS]

  have were carrying on a casual friendly [TS]

  conversation and yet he is ultimately [TS]

  like the person who is in charge of it [TS]

  and I'm like wow [TS]

  uh this is extraordinary both in terms [TS]

  of access but also in truth in terms of [TS]

  opportunity because he knows he's super [TS]

  smart guy and knows that the [TS]

  homelessness problem is not intractable [TS]

  it does have there are solutions and you [TS]

  have to just get it you have to get the [TS]

  ball down the field through that I'm [TS]

  starting to talk like a total asshole [TS]

  have to get down the field and through [TS]

  the goalposts amazing question from [TS]

  their market if you have a test match up [TS]

  tonight I know the rules are rolling [TS]

  star homelessness is like a cricket [TS]

  match homelessness is more of a scrum [TS]

  but you throw one guy up in the air and [TS]

  a rubber buttons you have to run [TS]

  backwards holding a ball that is not [TS]

  shaped like a ball so some fresh ideas [TS]

  so the appeal of it that is just [TS]

  tremendous appeal that it that that like [TS]

  when I think cynically I call power but [TS]

  the reality is that it that that it that [TS]

  these that the the people who are best [TS]

  at this job have an idealism and our [TS]

  idea people ultimately but they're also [TS]

  good at sitting in a meeting and looking [TS]

  I'm not looking bored and the ones that [TS]

  are brilliant at it are good at getting [TS]

  20 people to agree about something and [TS]

  then they share the credit in such a way [TS]

  that nobody remembers whose idea was [TS]

  everybody feels like it was their idea [TS]

  kinda and-and-and where IM recognizing [TS]

  in myself that my deficits are that i'm [TS]

  not good at that and i get twenty-five [TS]

  people to agree on something [TS]

  oh I'll be goddamned that they don't all [TS]

  feel the the that I chapter their ass or [TS]

  that there [TS]

  you know that they their eyebrows are [TS]

  singed and so and the really gifted [TS]

  people are you know they do it in this [TS]

  jiu-jitsu we're just like i don't i [TS]

  don't even remember that his hand on my [TS]

  wallet but but now I'm like the kind of [TS]

  being ushered out of the room honor on a [TS]

  floating carpet once and it's like [TS]

  you're dancing around this but I'm not [TS]

  trying to say that politics is a con [TS]

  but-but-but-but con a con in general [TS]

  there are cons in every aspect of our [TS]

  life to make something effective in my [TS]

  house it helps a lot to make it seem [TS]

  like it was my idea [TS]

  oh that's dying you know the way that a [TS]

  con works is it's a confidence game [TS]

  that's what a con is if you ask maybe [TS]

  something as a favor [TS]

  they're much more likely to do it for [TS]

  you because now they actually trust you [TS]

  more [TS]

  where the end if well and I think I [TS]

  think we are we have come from an era [TS]

  like politics and and government when we [TS]

  were kids was still a business of being [TS]

  in a in a room with a bunch of people [TS]

  who were trying to match each other [TS]

  highball glass to highball glass and [TS]

  that that small group of men white men [TS]

  all knew where one another's bodies were [TS]

  buried and that was the trust that [TS]

  enabled them to get business time [TS]

  because it was like oh yeah the judge [TS]

  you know the judge i happen to know that [TS]

  the judge likes little boys and so the [TS]

  judge knows i know and i'm going to try [TS]

  and get his approval on this you know [TS]

  this project we're going to tear down [TS]

  the old folks home and build an oil well [TS]

  and the judge is gonna sign off on it [TS]

  and that's how business gets done in [TS]

  America and that's how it was when we [TS]

  were kids and there has been a long and [TS]

  ugly transition but I don't think that's [TS]

  how government gets done anymore [TS]

  certainly local governments Seattle San [TS]

  Francisco like all these cities that [TS]

  have progressive mayor's who are [TS]

  gradually incremental II kind of [TS]

  changing the way business is done [TS]

  it's it's very much less i mean i [TS]

  remember going to vitos restaurant with [TS]

  my dad and him walking down the bar and [TS]

  he knew every guy in the place and it [TS]

  was just like that's you know that's a [TS]

  Superior Court judge that's a US [TS]

  congressman that is a you know that's [TS]

  the publisher of the newspaper and they [TS]

  were all there and they were all [TS]

  drinking together and that doesn't exist [TS]

  anymore right [TS]

  and in place of that there's a lot more [TS]

  transparent e-everybody everybody is [TS]

  just a transparency and ever that down [TS]

  let's get there's a lot more transparent [TS]

  but there's also that I mean like [TS]

  there's also a lot there are a lot fewer [TS]

  cigarettes there are a lot there's a lot [TS]

  less chronic alcoholism and a lot more [TS]

  accountability i guess and i believe I'm [TS]

  starting i'm actually starting to think [TS]

  that progressive politics are making are [TS]

  actually capable of making things it's a [TS]

  hopeful position i just wonder i just [TS]

  wonder if i have the metal for it you [TS]

  definitely have the metal for a certain [TS]

  kind of place in that I mean it would be [TS]

  really nice it would be really over [TS]

  simplified to say that that means you [TS]

  should be an elected official you eat [TS]

  you know there are things that you could [TS]

  do working with elected officials where [TS]

  you could do something really amazing [TS]

  that really taps into the stuff that [TS]

  you're really great at what I i like [TS]

  your point about their there's all kinds [TS]

  of things that we just that the other [TS]

  one that i always think about we talked [TS]

  about this before but like think about [TS]

  all the guys in that room to all the [TS]

  congressmen and the newspaper publisher [TS]

  like there's a pretty good chance they [TS]

  were all in the Army at some point to [TS]

  you [TS]

  that's right that's absolutely right now [TS]

  it's not in world war two Korea or [TS]

  Vietnam at least they were probably in [TS]

  the service i'll bet you a majority of [TS]

  the people in that notional bar or [TS]

  meeting or whatever had all been in the [TS]

  service at one point or another which [TS]

  sounds might sound silly to to you know [TS]

  generation facebook but I used to be [TS]

  really meaningful there's a lot of [TS]

  common ground and having [TS]

  on through that together and get his [TS]

  wards and that kind of stuff [TS]

  it's incredibly true and I mean I can't [TS]

  tell you how many times i have sat at a [TS]

  table with those guys while they talked [TS]

  about the war without talking about the [TS]

  war they you know they would sit there [TS]

  and argue and bicker and it would be an [TS]

  and I'd be sitting kind of listening and [TS]

  rolling my eyes and then I would realize [TS]

  they were talking about the war and I [TS]

  hadn't and I didn't get it you know [TS]

  because they were non demonstrative and [TS]

  they weren't actually talking about the [TS]

  war but that is that was the subtext and [TS]

  the and the and the glue the glue that [TS]

  bound them to one another but it [TS]

  separated them from their wives and [TS]

  separated them from everybody else you [TS]

  know it was it was it is it is the [TS]

  exclusive club that we as a culture have [TS]

  spent 40 years trying to dismantle and [TS]

  like like emptying the the asylums we [TS]

  have dismantled it more or less [TS]

  there are still the dick cheney's and [TS]

  their world and surely they're all kinds [TS]

  of places in America that are absolutely [TS]

  still run by the sons of those guys in [TS]

  the same method but looking at Seattle [TS]

  you cannot say any more that just [TS]

  because you are a Nordstrom or even a [TS]

  paul allen that you necessarily have [TS]

  carte blanche because because as a as a [TS]

  culture we have spent 40 years putting [TS]

  in place all these boards and all these [TS]

  referenda and there's you know there is [TS]

  nothing that escapes the attention of of [TS]

  the of the larger people you know and [TS]

  and and for good and out there there was [TS]

  an interesting article about the local [TS]

  schools here and end this the the school [TS]

  that was the lowest crappiest least [TS]

  performing elementary school [TS]

  has just had an incredible bump in their [TS]

  test scores in the last year because [TS]

  they put put in place this renegade [TS]

  principal renegade lady principal who [TS]

  brought with her the novel idea that you [TS]

  should take the underperforming math [TS]

  students and put them in a different [TS]

  group i'm the same classroom but just [TS]

  put them together in a group and put the [TS]

  high-performing math students together [TS]

  in a different group and that that very [TS]

  radical that notion is in is actually [TS]

  incredibly radical because because at [TS]

  education policy over the last 20 plus [TS]

  years has been that that dividing of [TS]

  students like does not help the the bad [TS]

  students or the underperforming students [TS]

  it just excludes them and generally is [TS]

  you know ultimately you can make [TS]

  correlations between that and and [TS]

  economics and it turns out those are all [TS]

  the poor students and the teachers just [TS]

  teaching to the smart students and the [TS]

  poor students just end up getting [TS]

  flushed out but also must depend a lot [TS]

  on the the somewhat obvious thing that [TS]

  gets left out which is that well and I [TS]

  think that phrase from the simpsons uh [TS]

  you know know you're in the brown [TS]

  reading group that you moved in the [TS]

  brown reading group i think that the [TS]

  kind of the Greystone over the years has [TS]

  been that and you're going to get the [TS]

  not very good teacher and the not very [TS]

  good textbooks and a leaky classroom it [TS]

  would be nothing to say we're going to [TS]

  take the kids that aren't doing that [TS]

  create math we're going to put them in [TS]

  and put them in here with our best [TS]

  teacher and they're going to get twenty [TS]

  percent more resources than the best [TS]

  group and I think that's what this [TS]

  principle is doing a but she's really [TS]

  bucking the bucking the trend and there [TS]

  are a lot of people who are kind of [TS]

  rattling the bars saying separating [TS]

  students out [TS]

  is it is you know maybe in a specific [TS]

  instance is fine but in the general in [TS]

  general it is a it is non progressive [TS]

  education policy and one of the [TS]

  interesting things that they quoted this [TS]

  article is that there was this kid who [TS]

  quite naturally when you think about it [TS]

  thought that one-sixth was more than [TS]

  one-fifth like that makes sense right if [TS]

  you have noticed is if no one has [TS]

  explained to you the concept very well [TS]

  you would naturally think 16 was more [TS]

  than 150 and then just as much as like [TS]

  point nine sounds like more than one [TS]

  right [TS]

  if you don't get it and so this kid and [TS]

  obviously he also was probably shy or [TS]

  english as a second language or whatever [TS]

  so he doesn't ask he doesn't raise his [TS]

  hand and ask the question he doesn't [TS]

  want to feel done so he's sitting in the [TS]

  class trying to digest all these [TS]

  concepts based on not understanding the [TS]

  fundament of it and across the room [TS]

  you've got a kid like me who wanted the [TS]

  teacher to just shut up please and let [TS]

  me have the book and if you you know if [TS]

  they had on the first day of fifth grade [TS]

  said if you get through this book as [TS]

  fast as you can then we'll give you a [TS]

  harder book to get through on your own [TS]

  as fast as you can and I would've just [TS]

  been like thank you God and would have [TS]

  tore through that 5th grade math book in [TS]

  a in a month you know and why you [TS]

  wouldn't why you wouldn't be able to [TS]

  what why education policy would would [TS]

  try to mandate that those two students [TS]

  be taught at the same speed that is [TS]

  that's the dark underbelly of not to get [TS]

  ping pong of of progressivism you know [TS]

  the the the the force equalization and [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  trying to reform those things those [TS]

  well-intentioned policies are like [TS]

  trying to solve the homeless problem by [TS]

  busing everybody around the town you [TS]

  know or giving them vouchers are trying [TS]

  to treat them in emergency rooms rather [TS]

  than [TS]

  just have some low-income housing built [TS]

  but i also i mean as long as i am [TS]

  assuming I mantle of guy who clearly [TS]

  understands what caused it but doesn't [TS]

  know how to fix it [TS]

  it's very it's very I think it's very [TS]

  common or not unusual in America for [TS]

  people to feel that because we can [TS]

  clearly see the antecedents for why [TS]

  something gotta certain way then we must [TS]

  just as clearly understand how to solve [TS]

  it and the example of Ronald Reagan you [TS]

  know the way I understand it sounds like [TS]

  the way you've heard it which is we [TS]

  decided hey you know how about we just [TS]

  start how about we just start cleaning [TS]

  out all the asylums and we take all [TS]

  these people who have been sitting [TS]

  around you know getting free lithium [TS]

  four years let's put them on the street [TS]

  and just see how that goes [TS]

  and now you got somethin somethin san [TS]

  francisco for example but boy you talk [TS]

  about a hard problem to solve my god [TS]

  homelessness and meet anybody who comes [TS]

  here from you know from Missouri and [TS]

  goes Wow San Francisco really doesn't [TS]

  care about homeless people look at all [TS]

  these homeless people its Sun that is [TS]

  such a complicated problem i would say [TS]

  probably more complicated than the [TS]

  education is like primary school [TS]

  education stuff because there are so [TS]

  many reasons that that problem has [TS]

  gotten to where it is that might be a [TS]

  forty-year-old problem from its main you [TS]

  know antecedent but the what we can do [TS]

  to change about that and why these [TS]

  people are still there it's it is so [TS]

  much more complicated than anybody can [TS]

  even begin to imagine and it's hard to [TS]

  even have that discussion with somebody [TS]

  from out of town here because everybody [TS]

  in town knows that it's not as simple as [TS]

  saying if i give this person five [TS]

  dollars they're gonna put that toward [TS]

  the security deposit [TS]

  yeah I heard the other day that there [TS]

  was a big a big town hall meeting in San [TS]

  Francisco where you have decided that [TS]

  it's no longer okay to just be naked on [TS]

  the street is that true [TS]

  well it's a little bit more sugar and [TS]

  and when he was determined that with [TS]

  within certain i think what I well out [TS]

  working longer be turgid on the street [TS]

  you can no longer if you had a propecia [TS]

  style accident gotta for our pre abscess [TS]

  or whatever it's called and [TS]

  ok so so can I ask you a historical [TS]

  question sure [TS]

  so your dad i remember i think i was in [TS]

  your guest bathroom I was somewhere and [TS]

  I saw your dad's old campaign ads mostly [TS]

  running for back then it's a really cool [TS]

  like it looks like something i would [TS]

  have made in the mid-nineties with [TS]

  clipart yeah it was a clipart a flyer [TS]

  for his I think his first run for the [TS]

  washington state legislature which would [TS]

  have happened in 1948 he was still in [TS]

  law school but your dad was involved in [TS]

  in politics of electr elected in [TS]

  otherwise he was involved in the union's [TS]

  do you have this is this is totally out [TS]

  of nowhere but you have a gut sense of [TS]

  what you're like looking at it from like [TS]

  your dad's point of view like like [TS]

  you're right now you're in a place where [TS]

  you are you've got a good heart about [TS]

  this and you're saying I believe that [TS]

  there is there's hope for progressive [TS]

  politics in a large town like you know [TS]

  with the right people in place in a good [TS]

  heart like you have a sense of what your [TS]

  dad would consider his biggest win in [TS]

  terms of not just not getting elected [TS]

  but like is there something where what [TS]

  was well as well as his big [TS]

  constitutional crisis that where he came [TS]

  out and went wow that that turned out [TS]

  way better than I could give any sense [TS]

  of that you know I'm saying like heeey [TS]

  spent a lot of time it is a lawyer so [TS]

  fucking lawyer for a living and working [TS]

  in for Union guys 44 train companies [TS]

  like what do have a sense of like what [TS]

  felt like a big win to him in his career [TS]

  well i mean i think generally overall [TS]

  the civil rights movement was the big [TS]

  win for everybody of his generation and [TS]

  we don't think of it as a win because it [TS]

  feels like it's so intractable and we're [TS]

  still fighting it all the time but the [TS]

  difference between the world that the [TS]

  difference in the world he grew up in [TS]

  and and the world that he left was from [TS]

  from their standpoint astonishing you [TS]

  know jack Tanner used to tell a story [TS]

  that he got drafted into the Army during [TS]

  the war and he was a very light-skinned [TS]

  black guy what they used to call high [TS]

  yella yeah ATM and photos hehe reads as [TS]

  black guy for sure he reads as black guy [TS]

  as an old as an old man but as a young [TS]

  guy [TS]

  particularly I think he probably conquer [TS]

  his hair and he kind of looked Italian [TS]

  or you know vaguely like Mediterranean [TS]

  or it was unclear and it was obvious to [TS]

  him he got inducted into the army and [TS]

  goes through the whole process here in [TS]

  tacoma and they put him on a train down [TS]

  to georgia or somewhere where he's going [TS]

  to go to boot camp and he's riding on [TS]

  the train and he'll really looks around [TS]

  and he realizes oh she is the only black [TS]

  guy on on the train and he realizes then [TS]

  that this was in an era when you weren't [TS]

  ever the only black guy on the train [TS]

  because you wouldn't be allowed on in [TS]

  the car right and he realizes that [TS]

  unless you're serving drinks right sure [TS]

  if you were if you were if you had white [TS]

  gloves on [TS]

  he realizes that they think he's white [TS]

  and that he's on he's headed to boot [TS]

  camp in Georgia and they think up here [TS]

  right they put him on the train and [TS]

  thinking that he's that he's white and [TS]

  he realizes he's gonna get to Georgia [TS]

  and they're going to know he's not what [TS]

  he's not white and he had this he had to [TS]

  repeat had to think on this train ride [TS]

  like do I try and pass or do I cop and [TS]

  he went and said like hey I think [TS]

  there's been a mistake and got himself [TS]

  reassigned to you know what was still a [TS]

  segregated army to a black company and [TS]

  he ended up being a [TS]

  he was a boat driver and drove what now [TS]

  those do you know the Ducks that we all [TS]

  have in our cities that drive around our [TS]

  coastal our water cities you guys have [TS]

  ducks there right [TS]

  the amphibious and Phineas the duck [TS]

  trucks or whatever he drove one of those [TS]

  like in the big beach landings at [TS]

  Okinawa and you know a late a golf and [TS]

  all this stuff like he was he was a [TS]

  landing craft driver but that is a very [TS]

  you know temp compare that to him [TS]

  30 years later where he is a federal [TS]

  judge and you know a man of enormous [TS]

  both power and also like held in in [TS]

  pretty high esteem that transition for [TS]

  my dad's generation was like incredibly [TS]

  profound because in 1938 there was not [TS]

  any sense that that that you can make [TS]

  that much progress that fast [TS]

  I think right made my dad's own success [TS]

  was all measured in like he he worked [TS]

  out he you know he was a great conflict [TS]

  resolver and he worked out the [TS]

  relationship between the dock workers [TS]

  and the shipping companies you know on a [TS]

  few different big disputes about how the [TS]

  seattle waterfront was going to work and [TS]

  then one when he went to Alaska and and [TS]

  was the chief counsel for the railroad [TS]

  there he was really instrumental in the [TS]

  implementation of the Native Claims Act [TS]

  and my dad was was for his generation a [TS]

  completely color blind guy and the [TS]

  Alaskan Natives learned to trust him [TS]

  working at the at the at the road I [TS]

  don't know if I've ever told you this [TS]

  but the there's a city called Arctic [TS]

  Circle Alaska and [TS]

  it's a you know it's a native town and [TS]

  they had a like a council or whatever [TS]

  like a town board i guess a town board [TS]

  and they called my dad up and said will [TS]

  you come be the mayor of arctic circle [TS]

  and he went up there and rat ran the [TS]

  town for a while and eventually took my [TS]

  car my 1977 chrysler imperial that he [TS]

  had given me when I was 16 years old he [TS]

  took the car and he drove it all the way [TS]

  up to the Yukon River put it on a barge [TS]

  floating it down the Yukon and gave it [TS]

  to the town and for a while it was there [TS]

  like town the town car I mean they had [TS]

  obviously there were other cars there [TS]

  but this was like the city car right [TS]

  which you know what it would be fine [TS]

  except that he took the car up put it on [TS]

  a barge and set it down the Yukon [TS]

  without emptying the glove box or the [TS]

  trunk of all my shit and without [TS]

  mentioning it to me so I think he's a [TS]

  Trojan one-hitter is it i came home from [TS]

  some trip and I was like where's my car [TS]

  he was like oh I gave it to arctic [TS]

  circle that was like you gave it to the [TS]

  town and he's like yeah they needed a [TS]

  town they need a city car I was like did [TS]

  you get my shit out of it feels like it [TS]

  was their shit in so some somewhere up [TS]

  there they have a couple of cool jackets [TS]

  of mine and i think i had i think i had [TS]

  some kind of golf clubs who knows what [TS]

  was in the car but there's no weed in [TS]

  there [TS]

  Oh probably probably I mean that would [TS]

  have doubted that probably gone over [TS]

  like gangbusters with the administration [TS]

  of Arctic Circle Alaska but so my dad [TS]

  was a guy that you know the guy that [TS]

  everybody trusted and he was a guy that [TS]

  women not everybody trusted input like [TS]

  he was a he was a particularly I mean [TS]

  both my mom and dad work were colorblind [TS]

  people in an era before that was common [TS]

  outside of kind of the Quaker like that [TS]

  Quaker vibe of the Northeast where [TS]

  people are hyper color blind to the [TS]

  point that you almost don't believe them [TS]

  but they were just natively that way [TS]

  just naturally like judge people on [TS]

  their on the look in their eye my sister [TS]

  inherited that from them too [TS]

  I'm you know I'm much more and much of [TS]

  more of a hard case than anybody any of [TS]

  the any of my people in terms of just [TS]

  accepting everybody assuming the best of [TS]

  everyone first you know I I walk into a [TS]

  situation just like the Italian guy and [TS]

  a good over here [TS]

  hey Irish guy come here but but yeah my [TS]

  folks were never like that [TS]

  did he ever end up getting elected to a [TS]

  a regular you know electoral publicly [TS]

  voted thing [TS]

  well he was so state legislature for for [TS]

  a couple terms on the late forties early [TS]

  fifties and then he he was the darling [TS]

  of the of the Democratic Party in [TS]

  washington state in the fifties and [TS]

  their era parents but he drank too much [TS]

  and then he went to work for Kennedy and [TS]

  he was Kennedy's advance man through the [TS]

  60 campaign and 60 now shit so he [TS]

  traveled ahead of the Kennedy campaign [TS]

  my dad was in you know Kennedy would be [TS]

  in chicago on thursday and my dad would [TS]

  have gotten there on tuesday and said [TS]

  here's where the president's going to [TS]

  stand [TS]

  here's who he's yeah he's gonna shake [TS]

  your hand and he's going to move over [TS]

  here and you those doors need to be [TS]

  closed and these hotel rooms need to be [TS]

  blocked off and then so my dad kept [TS]

  leapfrogging ahead of the campaign [TS]

  squaring away the local Democrats [TS]

  explaining how it was going to run and [TS]

  you know being his kind of guy leading [TS]

  the that the you know the events across [TS]

  the country and the presumption and I i [TS]

  I'm I'm imposing all this from way in [TS]

  the future but i would think that [TS]

  someone in that position would then have [TS]

  a role in the new administration [TS]

  yeah almost always right that's where [TS]

  that largesse comes in is you get some [TS]

  kind of an appointment right that's [TS]

  right but my dad was mb throes of his [TS]

  alcoholism at the time and drank himself [TS]

  into a situation this is all very this [TS]

  is all referred to in my family in this [TS]

  very ghazi language where I tried and [TS]

  tried and tried i confronted people i [TS]

  SAT people down and said what happened [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  it's just one of the rare places where [TS]

  the language just gets all weird and [TS]

  everybody nobody even my mom who has [TS]

  nothing to hide or whatever it just all [TS]

  gets very confusing but my dad sat down [TS]

  in a bar with a reporter from The [TS]

  Washington Post and said some candid [TS]

  things about Bobby Kennedy that while he [TS]

  was drunk that were meant to be taken [TS]

  off the record shit who knows exactly [TS]

  what it was but some event some moment [TS]

  in time and you know the Kennedys were [TS]

  very you know that Bobby and Jack really [TS]

  circled the wagons and they were like [TS]

  everybody in that position and in that [TS]

  Aris hyper paranoid bobby was hyper [TS]

  paranoid [TS]

  and you know you just get one chance to [TS]

  fuck up right and whatever happened he [TS]

  my dad came home from the campaign and [TS]

  then that was over and there was no it [TS]

  did not translate into him going to work [TS]

  for Kennedy and in the process [TS]

  his is good friend and patron Warren [TS]

  magnuson who was a long time governor of [TS]

  the state of Washington who had kind of [TS]

  been again grooming my dad for some kind [TS]

  of appointment like all of that got kind [TS]

  of hazy and there was all of a sudden in [TS]

  1960 this meteoric rise where people [TS]

  were talking about him as you know [TS]

  senate candidate or he was going to get [TS]

  appointed to the bench or something even [TS]

  he was you know a comet in the [TS]

  Democratic Party through the fifties and [TS]

  then post that post Kennedy post 1960 [TS]

  all the sudden he's like the family [TS]

  story changes and now he's practicing [TS]

  law in Seattle and he's they moved out [TS]

  to the country and got a house on the [TS]

  water somewhere and my mom and dad were [TS]

  out there trying to give you like a [TS]

  straight story on that nada and and i [TS]

  said to my dad toward the end of his [TS]

  life I was like listen you gotta tell me [TS]

  what went down because I'm because i [TS]

  don't want to because you're the last [TS]

  one that knows like right tanner is gone [TS]

  the whole that whole job Bernie TV is [TS]

  like out in the out in the weeds [TS]

  no one's going to give me a straight [TS]

  answer if you don't and at that point [TS]

  right and right toward the end my dad [TS]

  was like started to get a little bit [TS]

  haha he started to stonewall me on some [TS]

  things and he said I don't know what the [TS]

  fuck you're talking about and I said [TS]

  what happened in nineteen sixty and he [TS]

  said nothing nothing fucking happened [TS]

  and you know and he looked he looked [TS]

  hurt and i didn't i didn't wanna press I [TS]

  didn't want to press course not and it [TS]

  was just like I don't know I I'm never [TS]

  going to know if my mom won't tell me [TS]

  and my dad wouldn't tell me and [TS]

  everything through and and and honestly [TS]

  I think it might be as simple as nobody [TS]

  knows he might have just gone out [TS]

  sitting in a bar and said something in [TS]

  the window in the Roderick style like [TS]

  yeah Bobby Kennedy what an asshole [TS]

  United just said something [TS]

  candid that everybody already kind of [TS]

  knew Outen fidelity maybe the guy i mean [TS]

  i think i think it's pretty gosh how [TS]

  close to like everybody knowing it could [TS]

  that be that young lady with everyone [TS]

  tomcat everybody knew that hit his [TS]

  famous story about bobby was everywhere [TS]

  for all they know it's too late now the [TS]

  Kennedys can't fucking touch me [TS]

  what are you gonna do what are you gonna [TS]

  do you'd be a mixed what along I watched [TS]

  have a JFK today and I'm pretty fucking [TS]

  scared [TS]

  what's gonna happen is is rose gonna [TS]

  rise up from the grave and stabbed in [TS]

  the eye [TS]

  they're all gone like Carolyn I'm not [TS]

  afraid of Carolyn you've never been [TS]

  afraid of Caroline Kennedy fucking take [TS]

  Caroline Kennedy know the story the [TS]

  story was they were in a hotel somewhere [TS]

  in like somewhere in the Midwest and [TS]

  it's a it's the you know it's the big [TS]

  it's the Davenports or whatever it's the [TS]

  big hotel in the center of town and and [TS]

  jack is upstairs in the in the [TS]

  presidential suite having a big meeting [TS]

  with all of his his advisors and you [TS]

  know of course the that whole floor is [TS]

  blocked off their their state troopers [TS]

  standing at the elevator [TS]

  their Secret Service standing outside [TS]

  the door and Bobby comes up the elevator [TS]

  and my dad is there is the first hand [TS]

  experience [TS]

  Bobby comes up the elevator he walks [TS]

  down the hall tries the door knob of the [TS]

  room and finds it locked and rather than [TS]

  knock or turn to the Secret Service guys [TS]

  standing on either side of the door [TS]

  Bobby takes a step back and puts his [TS]

  foot through the door and kicks open the [TS]

  window breaks the lock clicks open the [TS]

  double doors of the sub the sweet to the [TS]

  room and says why the fuck was this door [TS]

  locked the principle being that Bobby [TS]

  Kennedy is never on the wrong side of a [TS]

  locked door where his brother is on the [TS]

  other side food and that I mean my dad [TS]

  having seen a lot of shit that was [TS]

  particularly impressive to him and to [TS]

  everyone in the room and you know and [TS]

  and and Jack waved it off but imagine [TS]

  the entitlement of a guy and also like [TS]

  like the ruthlessness of somebody who's [TS]

  first instinct is to kick the door down [TS]

  yeah like only a brother you know what I [TS]

  mean like before he knocked even rattle [TS]

  the knob just took one step back and [TS]

  boom wingtip on it onto the lock and so [TS]

  you know i think that that particularly [TS]

  before Bobby became attorney general [TS]

  when it was just a campaign and [TS]

  everybody was like who's the kid you [TS]

  know who this [TS]

  how was he 38 and how it was Bobby [TS]

  during the during the campaign we have [TS]

  still in his thirties that type of thing [TS]

  you know I'm i can i can see my dad in a [TS]

  in the in the hotel bar downstairs going [TS]

  like you won't believe this guy [TS]

  and somebody you know two booths over [TS]

  over here is it and who who knows i'll [TS]

  never know is the thing i'll never know [TS]

  why why there was this this watershed [TS]

  moment in my dad's career where he went [TS]

  from heir apparent to you know he will [TS]

  it's not like he was it was it was like [TS]

  you know you're out tom right and and [TS]

  and Tom's like but I can do you think I [TS]

  can help out tom [TS]

  you're out and then the decisions made [TS]

  and it you know dad was always he was [TS]

  always on friendly terms with with it [TS]

  with that whole generation and you know [TS]

  his good friend broc adams was appointed [TS]

  Secretary of Transportation and a whole [TS]

  handful of his friends went up to the [TS]

  federal bench if it's such a big [TS]

  difference between being welcomed in the [TS]

  sanctum sanctorum vs not needing to be [TS]

  welcomed there because they belong there [TS]

  all the difference that never a one [TS]

  thing I realized as growing up there was [TS]

  that it never happens there's always a [TS]

  inner door right Brendan broc adams has [TS]

  to knock on the door to get into the you [TS]

  know he's a fucking member of the [TS]

  cabinet right but like it you get it you [TS]

  see it in the west wing and that's what [TS]

  one of the things that made that show so [TS]

  good like the vice president of the [TS]

  United States is constantly pissed off [TS]

  about his access to the President and [TS]

  like sucking his thumb over in the [TS]

  executive office building because you [TS]

  know because he has to call to get in to [TS]

  see the president just like there's no [TS]

  you're always always gets me waiting in [TS]

  the lobby exactly like and I thought I I [TS]

  probably told you that story with that [TS]

  we did we opened for keen for [TS]

  two-and-a-half months you know a few [TS]

  years ago and the Keen the band are [TS]

  brilliant to us and you know wonderful [TS]

  wonderful people but they have hired a [TS]

  staff of people [TS]

  and part of the job of that staff is [TS]

  precisely to tell us the opening band [TS]

  not to step on any of Keynes cables and [TS]

  you hear hears that we have put some [TS]

  tape on the floor on the stage and you [TS]

  need to be within that tape and don't [TS]

  touch anything and you get you get to [TS]

  choose one color for your lights because [TS]

  we are not going to use our lights on [TS]

  you so you could write an e-book just on [TS]

  being the opening act that big color [TS]

  make it good and we're like okay I guess [TS]

  I guess white and they're like fine [TS]

  done boom white and so we would walk on [TS]

  stage of what the white lights would [TS]

  come on and we'd be like standing inside [TS]

  the line and we were out there for two [TS]

  and the thing is that the band you know [TS]

  the band is oblivious to it but this is [TS]

  show business so they have a that they [TS]

  pay people so they can get with it [TS]

  that's right and you can absolutely tell [TS]

  that they know that they're the at the [TS]

  monitor desk there were you know there [TS]

  were six power amps and they only turned [TS]

  on three of them for our chef set and [TS]

  then they turn on the other three and [TS]

  and all of a sudden the sound comes [TS]

  alive for the headliner and that's [TS]

  common business so all these months were [TS]

  out opening for kina were just standing [TS]

  inside this little box and then at the [TS]

  end of the tour the guys in King were [TS]

  like hey we're opening for you to at [TS]

  madison square garden would you like to [TS]

  come to the show and I was like yes I [TS]

  would [TS]

  they said great you know fly out to New [TS]

  York and and we'll put you up and we [TS]

  just want you there is our guests [TS]

  this is a big deal with you know you two [TS]

  is playing five sold-out nights and [TS]

  madison square garden and we're opening [TS]

  for them we want you to be there like [TS]

  about standing in a box [TS]

  I was like how amazing and i get to the [TS]

  show and it's absolutely right areas in [TS]

  this band that i thought was like the [TS]

  absolute peak of you mean they were [TS]

  selling tens of thousands of Records a [TS]

  week at that time all around the world [TS]

  and here they are standing in a box with [TS]

  one color of light and all around them [TS]

  is all of you twos gear covered with [TS]

  covered with black blankets and you [TS]

  could just hear the state the YouTube [TS]

  stage manager saying listen if you step [TS]

  outside of these lines [TS]

  we're going to electrocute you [TS]

  we're going to work we're hiding behind [TS]

  the drum riser with tazers if you move [TS]

  an inch and they're just like and i'm [TS]

  watching I'm like you're always fucking [TS]

  opening for somebody there is somebody I [TS]

  don't know if it's Kofi Anan or who it [TS]

  is but there's somebody that you too has [TS]

  to wait in the greenroom until what [TS]

  until basically until the president the [TS]

  united states walks past right there's [TS]

  there's nobody that the president of the [TS]

  United States has to wait for right but [TS]

  everybody else there's always somebody [TS]

  else that's like sorry we need to [TS]

  we're gonna have to bring some rope off [TS]

  this area for no reason except to keep [TS]

  you on the other side of the rope-like [TS]

  even warren buffett probably has that [TS]

  there's there's some moment in time when [TS]

  somebody puts a rope around him [TS]

  let's imagine for a minute that in [TS]

  nineteen sixty i mean i-i ii don't know [TS]

  a whole lot about it but it [TS]

  I bet next to dad next to gel i bet John [TS]

  you exactly where he stood [TS]

  he ordered all to his dad [TS]

  I mean this is not this is not [TS]

  conspiracy theory [TS]

  I mean that's how he got elected with [TS]

  his dad [TS]

  well but think about think about the [TS]

  same he's that he's the fucking [TS]

  president there is no there is no into [TS]

  your pal Bobby there is no attorney [TS]

  general feature attorney-general sweet [TS]

  there is a presidential suite but even [TS]

  then like you know it's like you know I [TS]

  yes I can because it's frank sinatra [TS]

  says I can like in that instance like [TS]

  well yeah I'm gonna be present because [TS]

  my dad's working it out [TS]

  well you have to join that Joe had Jones [TS]

  suffered so many humiliations by that [TS]

  point like he got his kid elected but he [TS]

  himself was largely discredited as a [TS]

  nazi apologist and i right [TS]

  you know like he didn't email he made a [TS]

  lot of enemies without making a [TS]

  commensurate number of friends right [TS]

  yeah yeah but when you think about the [TS]

  burden the jack add his older brother [TS]

  was supposed to be President his healthy [TS]

  Hale and Hardy older brother right jack [TS]

  was supposed to just be the like the [TS]

  callow playboy the city kids he's the [TS]

  secrecy the kid that's right i mean he I [TS]

  don't think I don't think Jack would [TS]

  have been Attorney General [TS]

  his brother had been elected president [TS]

  but his brother was killed in a suicide [TS]

  mission that dumbass plane that dumbass [TS]

  bomb-laden plane exploded over the [TS]

  channel i had never seen this very [TS]

  lovely obituary in the paper for your [TS]

  dad few years ago [TS]

  it's really nice you're quoted in it [TS]

  it's a it's a lovely i mix and commonly [TS]

  well-written obituary by modern [TS]

  standards for your former legislator [TS]

  David Roderick 86 [TS]

  yeah he you know he it is his funeral I [TS]

  still think about his funeral I still [TS]

  wish i had done a better job at his [TS]

  funeral of for whatever reason in that [TS]

  moment I didn't feel like I could make a [TS]

  speech and when I think about it now my [TS]

  dad's whole life was about making a [TS]

  speech and he never once was in an event [TS]

  like that where somebody where the room [TS]

  look to him and said you make a speech [TS]

  where he didn't stand up and say and and [TS]

  and you know a tap is glass was for can [TS]

  say I just like to say on behalf of all [TS]

  of my esteemed colleagues at the guest [TS]

  of honor sitting on the dais is the son [TS]

  of a bitch and regular haha rawr rawr [TS]

  rawr rawr rock you know like my dad [TS]

  never missed a chance at us today that's [TS]

  a tough day there John [TS]

  I was the air and that's and that's a [TS]

  semiotic you could be forgiven for yeah [TS]

  not having the best day ever had that [TS]

  day I don't beat myself up too badly but [TS]

  I but you know my uncle jack helped me [TS]

  rent the main room of the Washington [TS]

  athletic club where he transacted so [TS]

  many of his his spilled drink you know [TS]

  men's clubs lobby [TS]

  Dayton's and like all the rock stars are [TS]

  there the Seattle the young people are [TS]

  all there supporting me right so it's a [TS]

  room full of of of rock luminaries and [TS]

  then they start filing in these little [TS]

  all [TS]

  all [TS]

  men and the room fills up with these [TS]

  little old dudes these and these little [TS]

  little like 88 year old Japanese guys [TS]

  and these little 88 year old black guys [TS]

  in these little 88-year old Chinese guys [TS]

  and these little 88-year old Italian [TS]

  guys Jewish guys and all these it's like [TS]

  a fucking Bennett on a diff such a thing [TS]

  existed in 1940 and there and ye and I [TS]

  start walking around and talking to them [TS]

  like high you know [TS]

  hey how do you do I'm John Roderick and [TS]

  they're like oh yeah your dad was a real [TS]

  son-of-a-bitch and I go yeah he was and [TS]

  they're like well I've got a little [TS]

  speech here and I said well you know how [TS]

  it be you know by all means like make a [TS]

  speech and they're like well wait I'll [TS]

  wait until the you know till the [TS]

  speeches start and I never started the [TS]

  speeches i didn't get up at the lectern [TS]

  and say we're gathered here today to [TS]

  remember this old son-of-a-bitch because [TS]

  there was a student there would have [TS]

  been 15 guys walk up and say he used to [TS]

  be such a son of a bitch like they were [TS]

  all dying to do it and I never started [TS]

  it and you know my brother my brother [TS]

  was playing the piano over here there [TS]

  was there was a trim cocktail over here [TS]

  there was you know there are people [TS]

  walking around in tuxedos with silver [TS]

  trays and I and I'm standing there in [TS]

  his suit I'm wearing his old three-piece [TS]

  suit and I couldn't I couldn't stand up [TS]

  and say let me tell you a story about [TS]

  this pain-in-the-ass that was my dad and [TS]

  little but you know where we were there [TS]

  all afternoon [TS]

  nobody got up and did it because it was [TS]

  my job to do it even though I have two [TS]

  older brothers and there were 25 people [TS]

  there that that probably if you if you [TS]

  rank them by you know by precedence or [TS]

  whatever like but obviously feel like it [TS]

  should have been your job well obviously [TS]

  it was because for what [TS]

  ever reason like in that moment it was I [TS]

  was clearly being recognized as the new [TS]

  patriarch and this was the this was a [TS]

  very weird experience for me at the time [TS]

  because there are a lot of people in my [TS]

  family and a lot of other people who [TS]

  should who were waiting for my dad to [TS]

  die basically so that they could be the [TS]

  old man and the energy in the family and [TS]

  in the room was that [TS]

  Oh in fact that had leapfrogged all [TS]

  those people and now it was me and I was [TS]

  like I'm not anywhere close to being [TS]

  ready to be the patriarch I'm i am NOT [TS]

  him yet and and yet it was decided it [TS]

  was decided unconsciously by the tribe [TS]

  and so I just kind of just stood there [TS]

  and and you know I talk to every single [TS]

  one of those people but like I didn't I [TS]

  didn't make the speech and I didn't let [TS]

  them make the speech I didn't give them [TS]

  a possible permission to make the speech [TS]

  and so we had a we had a lovely party [TS]

  for him that was six hours long and [TS]

  nobody made a single fucking speech and [TS]

  to whatever degree I feel like my dad [TS]

  watches over me I feel like he's also [TS]

  may be trapped in purgatory until I make [TS]

  a goddamn speech about it i think he [TS]

  just did until it stand up in some hotel [TS]

  lobby and say you did a pretty good job [TS]

  just know this guy [TS]

  well it was nice because we had another [TS]

  uniform in Alaska and my uncle who does [TS]

  not who does not accept my authority [TS]

  uncle Jack who does not recognize my [TS]

  authority as the new patriarch girls are [TS]

  different in the plants kept very much [TS]

  feels and rightly so that he is that he [TS]

  is the last uh last Apache he said [TS]

  what's or stand around there and that [TS]

  was an amazing funeral the [TS]

  there were was a former governor their [TS]

  former senator there who had not spoken [TS]

  to each other in 20 years and that the [TS]

  obituary in the Alaska paper [TS]

  well the headline of the obituary was [TS]

  ted stevens and Tony knowles make up [TS]

  their 20-year feud and Dave Roberts [TS]

  Funeral like the it resolved there that [TS]

  like 20 years of not speaking to each [TS]

  other but at that event my uncle Jack [TS]

  walked into the center of the room and [TS]

  he said alright you sons of bitches [TS]

  let's hear it let's hear your stories [TS]

  about this old son-of-a-bitch and that [TS]

  then everybody went crazy I mean that [TS]

  was that was very fun that was the day I [TS]

  met sarah palin really yeah she was here [TS]

  she did not go to my dad's funeral but [TS]

  she was down the hall at a alaska state [TS]

  Republican fundraising convention was [TS]

  before she she was governor but it was [TS]

  before she had been tapped to be the [TS]

  vice president and all my friends that [TS]

  came to my dance room were like have you [TS]

  seen our governor have you seen Alaska's [TS]

  governor and I was like I don't think so [TS]

  no they were like dude sexy sexy to [TS]

  chill [TS]

  she's the hottest governor of all 50 [TS]

  governor's I was like amazing really [TS]

  they're like yeah dude i said but isn't [TS]

  she a Republican you have it doesn't [TS]

  matter huge she's fucking hot [TS]

  she's a hot governor did that's [TS]

  basically my Alaska friend impression so [TS]

  hot man she was pretty hard she was [TS]

  pretty hot now she really was not so hot [TS]

  anymore now that I know more standby [TS]

  sexxxy Peggy Hill [TS]

  the throne with that is it wrong for me [TS]

  to feel like the only redeeming quality [TS]

  of family guy is that the mom is hot and [TS]

  that i find her really hot [TS]

  no no it's wrong it's wrong with your [TS]

  confusing family guy in king of the hill [TS]

  but I but no you totally i have so many [TS]

  friends that just cannot even stand to [TS]

  watch family kind well no it's the worst [TS]

  television show in the world in minutes [TS]

  it's evidence of our our decline takes [TS]

  and that the mom [TS]

  the redheaded mom she seemed real perky [TS]

  it's just like I don't know what it is [TS]

  you can tell that she's a dangerous [TS]

  actor you know you you can just tell [TS]

  no no no no I'm just saying that like [TS]

  you know in the rightness on seen or [TS]

  talked about the character a lot of time [TS]

  with the cartoon character yeah the [TS]

  carrot cartoon character right yeah like [TS]

  in a way that Betty Rubble should have [TS]

  been hotter but there wasn't that danger [TS]

  she didn't have that element of danger [TS]

  in the way that what well what's your [TS]

  fucking elephant what's a at ted baker [TS]

  patty deafen yeah I think that's the [TS]

  country so this country singer I think [TS]

  of you make that mistake a lot [TS]

  yeah but very hot you know like that [TS]

  that the there's only a couple of times [TS]

  I've ever gone on the internet and [TS]

  googled rule 34 like rule 34 Trix rabbit [TS]

  or whatever it is that you want to see [TS]

  rule 34 word you're saying that that's [TS]

  that's the rule that says that there is [TS]

  going to be a girl version of things [TS]

  rule 34 as i understand it is that if [TS]

  you can think of it [TS]

  someone has made porn about it oh so if [TS]

  you google it was that a real 30 i [TS]

  thought that was that Eddie Vetter had [TS]

  covered it haha i had this so i was on [TS]

  Todd berries podcast and listen to it [TS]

  and I is a microphone [TS]

  oh yeah todd has bad microphones all he [TS]

  was but it was it was charming part III [TS]

  listen to listen to almost all of it and [TS]

  I'm gonna listen to the whole thing that [TS]

  he sounds like a very very nice guy [TS]

  yeah I like him a lot seems very [TS]

  down-to-earth well I wouldn't say that [TS]

  ok he lives here uniglobe right up but [TS]

  he he at one point I said something [TS]

  about about Pearl Jam and I got an email [TS]

  the other day from the music editor of [TS]

  the LA Weekly who said hey I i thought [TS]

  what you said about program in the top [TS]

  very podcast was really hilarious [TS]

  would you mind if we just transcribed it [TS]

  and used it at in our article about the [TS]

  upcoming programs shows in LA and i said [TS]

  i don't remember i replied i do not [TS]

  remember what I said but i am now having [TS]

  written the punk rock is bullshit [TS]

  article and spent like four weeks [TS]

  getting 40 hate mails a day from from [TS]

  people who run youth Center's I am NOT [TS]

  therapy very cautious about saying [TS]

  something sold out by saying that used [TS]

  to be really big thing if you look I [TS]

  don't want to say something about Pearl [TS]

  Jam that might even slightly be [TS]

  construed as aunty pearl jam quoted out [TS]

  of context quoted out of context because [TS]

  I just don't I don't ever want to get a [TS]

  delusion of like rabid hate mail again [TS]

  not you know I i retract nothing but I [TS]

  just don't want to instead I don't want [TS]

  to encourage people who are crazy to see [TS]

  me as a target and the LA Weekly was [TS]

  like oh no you don't say anything bad [TS]

  about program I mean you just talk about [TS]

  how they were like a jock frat funk band [TS]

  haha [TS]

  and I said you don't think that that [TS]

  would make anybody mad in the pearls and [TS]

  family and then it was not it was just a [TS]

  day ago or so that they Roderick on the [TS]

  line listener was just tweeted something [TS]

  to the effect that he was still mad at [TS]

  you and me for having said something bad [TS]

  about protein and so we've ever said [TS]

  anything bad about Pearl Jam know [TS]

  there's nothing bad to say about program [TS]

  but i think i might have spoken about [TS]

  Pearl Jam in a way all the shit we said [TS]

  how how could you listen to show more [TS]

  than two or three times and think the [TS]

  worst thing we've ever had to say was [TS]

  about fucking pearl chances what I'm [TS]

  saying they're on your friends with [TS]

  pearl jam I think pearl jam is fine [TS]

  there are people who seem probably nice [TS]

  mad at us for having spoken ill of bruce [TS]

  springsteen and that was just me I I [TS]

  don't know anything about is all you [TS]

  entirely of that and and yet they're so [TS]

  mad they probably won't even tweet about [TS]

  it which is like invited by modern [TS]

  standards as matters which everybody we [TS]

  get that mad so mad that we're not even [TS]

  going to give it I can't do it [TS]