The Incomparable

◼   ► come see the Cassidy and comfortable and [TS]

◼   ► many other podcasts at the now hear this [TS]

◼   ► festival in anaheim california October [TS]

◼   ► 28 through 30th do now here is this best [TS]

◼   ► dot-com [TS]

◼   ► the in time purple known 316 September [TS]

◼   ► 2016 welcome back everybody to be [TS]

◼   ► uncomfortable i'm your host Jason [TS]

◼   ► stellar here for another edition of our [TS]

◼   ► book club we're gonna be talking about i [TS]

◼   ► would say a classic book or at least a [TS]

◼   ► book that is not a current release it is [TS]

◼   ► a book from 1996 which means we are [TS]

◼   ► celebrating its 20th anniversary which [TS]

◼   ► kind of hard to believe the book that I [TS]

◼   ► really love when i read the first time [TS]

◼   ► and i re-read it for this podcast it's [TS]

◼   ► the sparrow a science fiction novel [TS]

◼   ► don't let anybody tell you otherwise a [TS]

◼   ► science fiction novel by Mary Doria [TS]

◼   ► wrestle joining me to talk about the [TS]

◼   ► sparrow are the following Erica and sign [TS]

◼   ► hello hello and shannon sudderth hello [TS]

◼   ► laughing keys and mr. book club himself [TS]

◼   ► hi guess who's coming multi hello [TS]

◼   ► so the sparrow some of us have read it [TS]

◼   ► before I believe Shannon and scott and i [TS]

◼   ► have read it before but that Erica it [TS]

◼   ► was new to you is that right i had never [TS]

◼   ► even heard of it [TS]

◼   ► well for you so in that new why did you [TS]

◼   ► agree to be on this podcast that's the [TS]

◼   ► thing i want to know i don't know and i [TS]

◼   ► saw i saw your your erica has been [TS]

◼   ► tweeting and posting our slack about the [TS]

◼   ► experience of reading this book to which [TS]

◼   ► i guess i would say thank you for [TS]

◼   ► showing up and for reading to the end [TS]

◼   ► mmm i got all the way through all the [TS]

◼   ► way through got to the end that America [TS]

◼   ► if you if you abide by the if you have [TS]

◼   ► nothing nice to say say nothing at all [TS]

◼   ► you're going to be very quiet very musky [TS]

◼   ► sure i'm not gonna be that quiet reading [TS]

◼   ► it again I realize all the reasons why i [TS]

◼   ► love this book and I also realized and I [TS]

◼   ► got to look out for all in detail all [TS]

◼   ► the things that i have a problem with [TS]

◼   ► about this book and that was good it was [TS]

◼   ► it was enjoyable to revisit it after i [TS]

◼   ► don't think i read in 1996 but I [TS]

◼   ► probably read it not too long after a [TS]

◼   ► year or two after so it's been almost 20 [TS]

◼   ► years since i read this book the sparrow [TS]

◼   ► is the first novel by Mary Doria wrestle [TS]

◼   ► she has written many books since she is [TS]

◼   ► not really a science fiction writer [TS]

◼   ► although her first two books for science [TS]

◼   ► fiction [TS]

◼   ► she's written a whole bunch of other [TS]

◼   ► stuff in a bunch of different different [TS]

◼   ► genres she definitely has a focus on [TS]

◼   ► she's got a lot of Catholicism happening [TS]

◼   ► and and [TS]

◼   ► a lot of her novels this book is about a [TS]

◼   ► first-contact situation [TS]

◼   ► it basically is the SETI program that [TS]

◼   ► they are Arecibo radio Observatory in [TS]

◼   ► Puerto Rico picks up radio broadcasts [TS]

◼   ► very much if you see the movie contact [TS]

◼   ► you get the idea what's going on here [TS]

◼   ► and then what happens next is that the [TS]

◼   ► Jesuits basically by an asteroid on the [TS]

◼   ► cheap and fly it to this tile for [TS]

◼   ► Centauri where they have picked up these [TS]

◼   ► signals in order to make a first contact [TS]

◼   ► with the aliens there and they arrive [TS]

◼   ► before anyone else and our main [TS]

◼   ► characters are the members of that crew [TS]

◼   ► the story is told in two different time [TS]

◼   ► lines in 2020 or thereabouts-- 2015 to [TS]

◼   ► 2020 when they are headed out they [TS]

◼   ► discovered the signal and they're headed [TS]

◼   ► out to Alpha Centauri and in 2060 in the [TS]

◼   ► aftermath of the mission when the sole [TS]

◼   ► survivor of the mission and we don't [TS]

◼   ► really know quite what that means when [TS]

◼   ► this starts the the kind of disgraced [TS]

◼   ► sole survivor has returned to Earth and [TS]

◼   ► as being interrogated by the leader of [TS]

◼   ► the Jesuits about this terrible mission [TS]

◼   ► that has happened that has almost ruined [TS]

◼   ► the society of jesus and and so it's a [TS]

◼   ► very interesting premise for a novel and [TS]

◼   ► their yes there are a lot of aliens and [TS]

◼   ► stuff in it too which is why despite the [TS]

◼   ► fact that some people said well it's not [TS]

◼   ► really science fiction at the time she [TS]

◼   ► was going to be 17 [TS]

◼   ► yeah because literary aspirations [TS]

◼   ► science fiction doesn't grapple with [TS]

◼   ► large issues of faith and and society [TS]

◼   ► and thinks he actually it does it is [TS]

◼   ► science fiction and it's got aliens in [TS]

◼   ► it to prove it [TS]

◼   ► so that's that's the sparrow it is it is [TS]

◼   ► at its core story about about Emilio [TS]

◼   ► sandoz a Jesuit priest who is the only [TS]

◼   ► survivor and how he got on this mission [TS]

◼   ► to go to this of this planet and meet [TS]

◼   ► these aliens and what happened and what [TS]

◼   ► happened when he got back home [TS]

◼   ► so that's a yes that's the sparrow it's [TS]

◼   ► got a lot of interesting issues about [TS]

◼   ► about faith about society about how we [TS]

◼   ► interpret them the meaning of life about [TS]

◼   ► other other people and other beings and [TS]

◼   ► there's a whole lot here [TS]

◼   ► so I don't know maybe we should start [TS]

◼   ► with some initial impressions about this [TS]

◼   ► book i'm gonna i'm gonna hold off in [TS]

◼   ► America because she just read it and i'm [TS]

◼   ► going to start with sort of like how [TS]

◼   ► this book lived in your memory and and [TS]

◼   ► your experience of rereading it so [TS]

◼   ► Shannon how about you and you you read [TS]

◼   ► this a while ago and then reread it for [TS]

◼   ► this podcast is that right [TS]

◼   ► that is right i went through a period in [TS]

◼   ► the early audis of trying to make myself [TS]

◼   ► read more science fiction and less [TS]

◼   ► fantasy because i'm @hardwick fantasy [TS]

◼   ► girl but we were I was the literary [TS]

◼   ► chair for a local khan and our guest was [TS]

◼   ► vernor vinge Eve and I had never read [TS]

◼   ► anything by him so I made myself read [TS]

◼   ► one of his more recent books before [TS]

◼   ► meeting him and working with him on the [TS]

◼   ► con and i decided i really need to fix [TS]

◼   ► this and kept going and looking for [TS]

◼   ► various things and the sparrow happened [TS]

◼   ► to be one of them i'm not sure but now i [TS]

◼   ► don't remember exactly what it was [TS]

◼   ► whether it was word of mouth from [TS]

◼   ► friends or just seeing it on a shelf [TS]

◼   ► something of that maybe say you know I [TS]

◼   ► wonder what this is like [TS]

◼   ► but in that period of reading syfy this [TS]

◼   ► is honestly only one of two pieces the [TS]

◼   ► other one being the red mars trilogy by [TS]

◼   ► Kim Stanley Robinson that I remember [TS]

◼   ► reading and at the time truly being [TS]

◼   ► blown away by on because it had this [TS]

◼   ► combination of explaining the science in [TS]

◼   ► a way that 1i could understand but to [TS]

◼   ► did not feel spelled out or dumped down [TS]

◼   ► and number two as you said dealing with [TS]

◼   ► these huge philosophical spiritual [TS]

◼   ► forces of nature you know all these [TS]

◼   ► different things anthropological things [TS]

◼   ► dealing with them in intricate ways [TS]

◼   ► without pulling punches and three the [TS]

◼   ► thing that struck me most of all was the [TS]

◼   ► characters this this band of people that [TS]

◼   ► were pulled together to uh to go on this [TS]

◼   ► trip just totally grabbed me their [TS]

◼   ► interactions their dialogue of Russell I [TS]

◼   ► think has a at least in this book a [TS]

◼   ► really strong [TS]

◼   ► sense of character and is able to bring [TS]

◼   ► them out and make them live off the page [TS]

◼   ► in a way I wasn't seeing another science [TS]

◼   ► fiction books which is of course why [TS]

◼   ► some people choose to call it not [TS]

◼   ► science fiction but as you said it [TS]

◼   ► totally is [TS]

◼   ► it's classic science fiction i think i [TS]

◼   ► think the interviewing 20 years famous [TS]

◼   ► library and Nancy Pearl has I don't know [TS]

◼   ► if she's officially recant your [TS]

◼   ► statement about the sparrow but she has [TS]

◼   ► come out as a proponent of science [TS]

◼   ► fiction it seems like she's backed off [TS]

◼   ► on her original review of the Spirit [TS]

◼   ► which is that it was too good to be [TS]

◼   ► science fiction which is shameful but [TS]

◼   ► that was 20 years ago and people can [TS]

◼   ► grow and change Scott what's your memory [TS]

◼   ► of the sparrow and and when did you read [TS]

◼   ► it and what do you think at the time [TS]

◼   ► well i believe i read it when it first [TS]

◼   ► came out and it hit me for a number of [TS]

◼   ► reasons AI think it's just a fantastic [TS]

◼   ► book but i also was raised Roman [TS]

◼   ► Catholic so it had that layer and i also [TS]

◼   ► went to a Jesuit High School so I was [TS]

◼   ► very familiar with the society of jesus [TS]

◼   ► and Jesuits in general and in fact it is [TS]

◼   ► the Jets who I have to thank for making [TS]

◼   ► me an atheist because whatever that is [TS]

◼   ► something something everyone is they [TS]

◼   ► teach you critical thinking and [TS]

◼   ► throughout my four years of high school [TS]

◼   ► and when i first went to high school I [TS]

◼   ► was pretty sure I was going to become a [TS]

◼   ► priest and by the time I left high [TS]

◼   ► school I was pretty sure that there was [TS]

◼   ► no God so all right [TS]

◼   ► it was my legs Jesuits Thank You Jesuits [TS]

◼   ► it was because of the Jesuits they [TS]

◼   ► taught me critical thinking and I was [TS]

◼   ► telling this story to one of my [TS]

◼   ► co-workers the other day and she said [TS]

◼   ► well the gesture was actually might not [TS]

◼   ► be so upset about that because they [TS]

◼   ► would be happy that you at least applied [TS]

◼   ► critical thinking through the process [TS]

◼   ► and i said well i think they still can't [TS]

◼   ► believe in god that's kind of one of [TS]

◼   ► their central today out soho even happy [TS]

◼   ► maybe someone has been going to the [TS]

◼   ► alcohol but so the stars align in this [TS]

◼   ► book because a it the biggest thing is [TS]

◼   ► dealing with his faith right and how [TS]

◼   ► your you how you deal with it how you [TS]

◼   ► you know there are many priests in this [TS]

◼   ► book and they all have different ways of [TS]

◼   ► expressing their faith [TS]

◼   ► and I enjoy that many of them you know [TS]

◼   ► you always hear the story of how you [TS]

◼   ► know God speaks to you and then you take [TS]

◼   ► up a vocation and certainly that happens [TS]

◼   ► but the characters in this book was [TS]

◼   ► basically say well i'm not insane i [TS]

◼   ► don't hear voices i am just not this the [TS]

◼   ► way I express my faith is through my [TS]

◼   ► actions and that's how I you know honor [TS]

◼   ► god I've never actually talked to God [TS]

◼   ► but you know with the main character [TS]

◼   ► goes through a journey where he kind of [TS]

◼   ► you know he believes in god please never [TS]

◼   ► had a bad experience with God and then [TS]

◼   ► he kind of he thinks he does right and [TS]

◼   ► it sends him off to this and then of [TS]

◼   ► course the end it may not turn out so [TS]

◼   ► well for him but yeah that that's one of [TS]

◼   ► the challenges that Santos basis is he [TS]

◼   ► he feels finally that he's had his [TS]

◼   ► moment of understanding of what His [TS]

◼   ► purposes and what God wants him to do [TS]

◼   ► and terrible things happen after that's [TS]

◼   ► a boot the thing i didn't remember i [TS]

◼   ► remember one central terrible thing that [TS]

◼   ► happens to him or to actually but I [TS]

◼   ► didn't remember all of the terrible [TS]

◼   ► things that happen through so as i was [TS]

◼   ► reading it as like this gracious me a [TS]

◼   ► lot of bad things happened to this man [TS]

◼   ► and everyone who goes to the planet [TS]

◼   ► uh-huh and it just also reinforce the [TS]

◼   ► idea in that I like novels in which the [TS]

◼   ► main character suffer literally which [TS]

◼   ► which I don't tend to like I said you [TS]

◼   ► know my my memory of the book was that [TS]

◼   ► you know that it was powerful that it [TS]

◼   ► was you know I i grabbed onto it because [TS]

◼   ► it was science science fiction yes you [TS]

◼   ► know but I could hold up a [TS]

◼   ► science-fiction book to all my friends [TS]

◼   ► and say this is worth reading arm but [TS]

◼   ► you like Scott I did had general [TS]

◼   ► generalities of things that had happened [TS]

◼   ► I had I'd somewhat forgotten the dual [TS]

◼   ► timelines structure that it was there [TS]

◼   ► all the way through and not just like at [TS]

◼   ► the beginning and towards the end and it [TS]

◼   ► took me a while to get back into reading [TS]

◼   ► this because as things started [TS]

◼   ► developing I'm just like oh yeah I [TS]

◼   ► remember [TS]

◼   ► oh no oh man [TS]

◼   ► but it when they hit to the point that [TS]

◼   ► you described where um where a jimmy [TS]

◼   ► Quinn discovers the music that there is [TS]

◼   ► an actual comprehensible message in what [TS]

◼   ► he thought was just some random blip [TS]

◼   ► from SETI and things start getting [TS]

◼   ► together of the people started all the [TS]

◼   ► different characters start interacting [TS]

◼   ► they start you know what essentially [TS]

◼   ► it's like you know yeah let's let's all [TS]

◼   ► be in a band together to build a [TS]

◼   ► spaceship there is a bit goofy how they [TS]

◼   ► do it but the enthusiasm that got me [TS]

◼   ► back into it which made remembering some [TS]

◼   ► of the things that happen along the way [TS]

◼   ► even harder and I'd forgotten just how [TS]

◼   ► powerful those last scenes are when the [TS]

◼   ► final revelations happen [TS]

◼   ► let's go to Erica erica your newbie you [TS]

◼   ► read this is the first time I don't [TS]

◼   ► think you know what you're getting into [TS]

◼   ► before we go into some specifics here i [TS]

◼   ► would like to hear your overview of your [TS]

◼   ► of your experience with this book [TS]

◼   ► well I did going completely cold i offer [TS]

◼   ► it's so rare that I get to go into a [TS]

◼   ► movie or a book or anything without [TS]

◼   ► knowing anything about it so I'm always [TS]

◼   ► excited when that happens I can just go [TS]

◼   ► into something completely cold and i [TS]

◼   ► think this is one of those times where [TS]

◼   ► complete it just backfired because had I [TS]

◼   ► known what this book was about going in [TS]

◼   ► i would have realized that this is a [TS]

◼   ► book that is like in capital letters not [TS]

◼   ► for Erica ah for yeah I have a you know [TS]

◼   ► up maybe I'm like the opposite of Scott [TS]

◼   ► here my my personal relationship with [TS]

◼   ► the with church stuff is is is [TS]

◼   ► complicated in such a way that it very [TS]

◼   ► much turns me off anytime that it isn't [TS]

◼   ► it in in a book [TS]

◼   ► so while I will when I will agree with [TS]

◼   ► with all of the non emotional reactions [TS]

◼   ► you guys had to this book it is very [TS]

◼   ► well written it is very well crafted [TS]

◼   ► this is a good book capital g capital be [TS]

◼   ► good book but it is just so not the kind [TS]

◼   ► of thing that I enjoy that I i don't [TS]

◼   ► know why i kept pushing through it with [TS]

◼   ► this infinite this had been an episode 4 [TS]

◼   ► of like award reading or or even when [TS]

◼   ► we're we're doing two or three books or [TS]

◼   ► something like that I probably would [TS]

◼   ► have just stopped reading and [TS]

◼   ► and not finished it and that now that i [TS]

◼   ► have gotten all the way to the end of [TS]

◼   ► the book I i think that that would have [TS]

◼   ► been better huh [TS]

◼   ► for me I can't argue with any of the [TS]

◼   ► stuff that you guys have have said about [TS]

◼   ► its its quality it just yes it is it is [TS]

◼   ► very philosophical and that is so not my [TS]

◼   ► kind of another kind of thing [TS]

◼   ► yeah and I think that's one of the keys [TS]

◼   ► in that it delves into all these issues [TS]

◼   ► of spirituality and you know like you [TS]

◼   ► Erica I'm not got you an agnostic the [TS]

◼   ► fairest thing to say as far as my [TS]

◼   ► spirituality but this particular book at [TS]

◼   ► least not once do i as the reader feel [TS]

◼   ► like I'm being preached at and I think [TS]

◼   ► that is a marvelous marvelous thing that [TS]

◼   ► Russell manages to do to make this book [TS]

◼   ► a huge search thru spirituality how [TS]

◼   ► people arrive at their spirituality what [TS]

◼   ► happens when their spirituality seems to [TS]

◼   ► fail them and yet I as a reader not once [TS]

◼   ► felt like I was being told you should [TS]

◼   ► believe anything [TS]

◼   ► yes I i should point out that that is [TS]

◼   ► absolutely not you know that that's not [TS]

◼   ► my complaint I i agree with that she did [TS]

◼   ► a wonderful job of sort of walking that [TS]

◼   ► line of I mean you guys mentioned her [TS]

◼   ► characters and and you're right these [TS]

◼   ► are very well realized characters they [TS]

◼   ► all have inner lives two to one degree [TS]

◼   ► or another so I felt like I knew who [TS]

◼   ► these people were so the the examination [TS]

◼   ► of the spirituality is very much carried [TS]

◼   ► out from the perspective of each one of [TS]

◼   ► these characters and I did not feel like [TS]

◼   ► there was a view that I was supposed to [TS]

◼   ► be associating with more than any of the [TS]

◼   ► rest so that was that was a very nice [TS]

◼   ► thing it didn't make any more [TS]

◼   ► comfortable for me reading it but at [TS]

◼   ► least I didn't feel like I was being [TS]

◼   ► preached to you know one of things then [TS]

◼   ► forgive me for this guy because i'm [TS]

◼   ► going to hear a little bit away from [TS]

◼   ► Star Trek here but as we have to host of [TS]

◼   ► the audio guide about 15 hear that one [TS]

◼   ► of the things always appreciate about [TS]

◼   ► the TV show Babylon 5 was similarly the [TS]

◼   ► fact that it took religion seriously and [TS]

◼   ► that was a show written by an atheist [TS]

◼   ► but the fact was that he felt like you [TS]

◼   ► know what [TS]

◼   ► in the future in a few hundred years [TS]

◼   ► we're gonna suddenly not have religion [TS]

◼   ► that's been with us for thousands of [TS]

◼   ► years probably going to be important to [TS]

◼   ► humanity for a very very long time if [TS]

◼   ► not forever [TS]

◼   ► the existence of humanity so [TS]

◼   ► I mention that because as somebody who [TS]

◼   ► is not a believer in pretty much [TS]

◼   ► anything that's me i love seeing [TS]

◼   ► portrayals of people struggling with [TS]

◼   ► their faith and wondering about the [TS]

◼   ► nature of God and in a science fictional [TS]

◼   ► can't context I i think it's great [TS]

◼   ► because i do think this is one of these [TS]

◼   ► fundamental things about being a human [TS]

◼   ► being and that's one of the reasons that [TS]

◼   ► i actually really like this book is even [TS]

◼   ► as and not a particularly religious [TS]

◼   ► person I recognize the importance of [TS]

◼   ► spirituality in a search for meaning in [TS]

◼   ► people and and these characters are all [TS]

◼   ► experiencing it and they're all [TS]

◼   ► experiencing it from different areas [TS]

◼   ► which is fascinating to me the fact that [TS]

◼   ► you've got our main character is a [TS]

◼   ► priest who basically has never kind of [TS]

◼   ► never believed in god and feels really [TS]

◼   ► bad about that which is fascinating to [TS]

◼   ► me and and the idea that he has this [TS]

◼   ► moment of clarity and feels that he [TS]

◼   ► finally has his meeting and then things [TS]

◼   ► go horribly wrong on this planet I mean [TS]

◼   ► that the the the the title of the book [TS]

◼   ► the sparrow is very specifically from a [TS]

◼   ► passage in the Bible about how even when [TS]

◼   ► a single sparrow falls dead God is aware [TS]

◼   ► of it that the idea here that bad things [TS]

◼   ► happen in the world to and God is aware [TS]

◼   ► of that too well that I guess Amelia [TS]

◼   ► sent this is the sparrow kind of e a [TS]

◼   ► terrible things happen to him [TS]

◼   ► I so so I I that aspect of it is [TS]

◼   ► fascinating to be also i am a sucker for [TS]

◼   ► first contact stories and this has that [TS]

◼   ► it isn't you know like we said with the [TS]

◼   ► station eleven episode the you know [TS]

◼   ► still bear with me on this one Scott [TS]

◼   ► station level was a book that a lot of [TS]

◼   ► people didn't like because on our book [TS]

◼   ► club because it is not very good at [TS]

◼   ► science fiction showing an apocalypse [TS]

◼   ► here i would say the sparrow similarly [TS]

◼   ► if you're somebody good is going to get [TS]

◼   ► caught up in the science of this you [TS]

◼   ► know there's a lot of hand waving that [TS]

◼   ► goes on about how they get to another to [TS]

◼   ► another solar system right like that [TS]

◼   ► they don't describe oh we invented a [TS]

◼   ► drive that will take us there at half [TS]

◼   ► speed of light or where they just kinda [TS]

◼   ► she can you wave your hands and it's [TS]

◼   ► fine that's not her strong suit no it's [TS]

◼   ► not the Anthropology side [TS]

◼   ► anthropologie side is her strong suit [TS]

◼   ► and that shines through you have to [TS]

◼   ► squint at the science you have to end [TS]

◼   ► and for me it's okay because because the [TS]

◼   ► culture when it was she when they get to [TS]

◼   ► the planet red-hot it is it is so [TS]

◼   ► interesting that it's fine and it's also [TS]

◼   ► I my point is like with a station eleven [TS]

◼   ► you know it [TS]

◼   ► the details aren't the point here it's [TS]

◼   ► actually more kind of like the end [TS]

◼   ► result this is allegorical for the [TS]

◼   ► presence of the Jesuits in the new world [TS]

◼   ► essentially this is what would be a new [TS]

◼   ► new world for the Jesuits to have to [TS]

◼   ► have a first contact with and so it's a [TS]

◼   ► it's an alien planet instead and that's [TS]

◼   ► what she's really trying to do here in [TS]

◼   ► fact i'm kind of impressed that she [TS]

◼   ► tries as hard as she does to make a kind [TS]

◼   ► of hold together in terms of the science [TS]

◼   ► right because she could have completely [TS]

◼   ► just punted and been like and then they [TS]

◼   ► were on the other planet and instead she [TS]

◼   ► tries to go through recibo and getting [TS]

◼   ► the signals and all of that in the end [TS]

◼   ► its and it's very exciting and I I [TS]

◼   ► appreciate that because in the end [TS]

◼   ► yes is it kind of ridiculous that six [TS]

◼   ► people who were all together in Puerto [TS]

◼   ► Rico when the signal was made are part [TS]

◼   ► of a nine person or a person crew that [TS]

◼   ► is the first prefers people to go to an [TS]

◼   ► alien planet where where where alien [TS]

◼   ► life has been discovered for the first [TS]

◼   ► time before any governments or Space [TS]

◼   ► Agency's seems kind of ridiculous to me [TS]

◼   ► but you know what that's the story she [TS]

◼   ► wants to tell and we kind of go with it [TS]

◼   ► and I I mean I didn't it is ridiculous [TS]

◼   ► but i did also kind of buy into it a [TS]

◼   ► little bit because the the church [TS]

◼   ► doesn't have this you know the rules and [TS]

◼   ► regulations that i would imagine the [TS]

◼   ► government would have to follow so they [TS]

◼   ► can sounds like okay let's buy an [TS]

◼   ► asteroid and let's go and that's what [TS]

◼   ► they do and you know he convinces them [TS]

◼   ► that we we should do this we have you [TS]

◼   ► know priceless artwork that we can sell [TS]

◼   ► on the download and get us a suite [TS]

◼   ► asteroid and we can go off and you know [TS]

◼   ► we happen to have the people we need to [TS]

◼   ► make this a reality add a couple more [TS]

◼   ► priests and add a couple priest instant [TS]

◼   ► to just add Jesuits [TS]

◼   ► yep the spirituality aspect of it is is [TS]

◼   ► the biggest thing that turned me off [TS]

◼   ► about it but I think even if somehow [TS]

◼   ► this book were able to exist without [TS]

◼   ► that which certainly I long as possible [TS]

◼   ► but even if I had I still don't think [TS]

◼   ► that it would have been something that [TS]

◼   ► truly appealed to me because unlike [TS]

◼   ► scott once again I am NOT a person who [TS]

◼   ► really digs it when the the main [TS]

◼   ► characters in books suffer a lot like I [TS]

◼   ► don't mind some of it because you know [TS]

◼   ► sometimes you need that for a good story [TS]

◼   ► but I mean there's there's so few hours [TS]

◼   ► in the day that I get to read that I [TS]

◼   ► tend to like my escapism to be a little [TS]

◼   ► bit more escapee and and have something [TS]

◼   ► a little little bit lighter to to deal [TS]

◼   ► with and also the man to sort of [TS]

◼   ► back-and-forth flipping is is a thing [TS]

◼   ► that sometimes i like and sometimes I [TS]

◼   ► don't in this case it you find out at [TS]

◼   ► the very very very beginning that [TS]

◼   ► everything goes horribly wrong and it's [TS]

◼   ► just it's a journey of discovery to find [TS]

◼   ► out how things went wrong so that just [TS]

◼   ► had me kind of you know the clenched [TS]

◼   ► heart all the way through like what is [TS]

◼   ► going to happen I know something is [TS]

◼   ► going to be awful and I like i would i [TS]

◼   ► would rather know hit the outset that [TS]

◼   ► it's gonna end very badly then have it [TS]

◼   ► seemed like everything's gonna be fine [TS]

◼   ► and then it ends terribly so I guess [TS]

◼   ► this is this is a little bit better than [TS]

◼   ► that but but still i just spent the [TS]

◼   ► whole thing with a feeling of great [TS]

◼   ► dread yeah I was kind of surprised that [TS]

◼   ► i managed to sort of lose that dread [TS]

◼   ► somewhat once the the 2019 once the [TS]

◼   ► current day quote unquote a timeline [TS]

◼   ► started kicking together I was kind of [TS]

◼   ► surprised that I think the characters [TS]

◼   ► you know we're strong enough and having [TS]

◼   ► so much fun with each other that it that [TS]

◼   ► drew me back in on just like it did the [TS]

◼   ► first time I mean you know that i've [TS]

◼   ► read when i read this book the first [TS]

◼   ► time like you said it tells you right at [TS]

◼   ► the beginning things really went [TS]

◼   ► downhill and yet the first time around i [TS]

◼   ► managed to forget a lot of that until [TS]

◼   ► the last third of the book when it [TS]

◼   ► started really going downhill and [TS]

◼   ► gathering speed on and it almost [TS]

◼   ► happened to me again [TS]

◼   ► Yesi whereas i was just i felt like it [TS]

◼   ► was such work reading this book that I [TS]

◼   ► got toward the end and you know that [TS]

◼   ► some things that have [TS]

◼   ► and some things hadn't happened yet and [TS]

◼   ► i was just finding myself going ok I've [TS]

◼   ► actually you know I've learned to maybe [TS]

◼   ► not like so much but at least appreciate [TS]

◼   ► some of these characters because they [TS]

◼   ► were very well written but I literally [TS]

◼   ► found myself thinking oh my god just die [TS]

◼   ► already look like regular people like I [TS]

◼   ► like you but I know something Bad's [TS]

◼   ► gonna happen to you so can we please [TS]

◼   ► just get it over with [TS]

◼   ► just and I did I think the structure to [TS]

◼   ► your point Erica makes it all the more [TS]

◼   ► worse because you know at the beginning [TS]

◼   ► that you first meet sandoz and he's a [TS]

◼   ► broken character and then you flipped [TS]

◼   ► back to the past and he's like this [TS]

◼   ► bubbly guy that everybody likes it he's [TS]

◼   ► making jokes is helping everybody at you [TS]

◼   ► just like oh now i'm just gonna watch [TS]

◼   ► this person basically have the worst [TS]

◼   ► several years of his life and then come [TS]

◼   ► back and continue to downward trend so [TS]

◼   ► it's not not gonna be a great pleasure [TS]

◼   ► ride this episode of the incomparable is [TS]

◼   ► brought to you by Casper asleep brand [TS]

◼   ► that created one perfect mattress sold [TS]

◼   ► directly to consumers like me I sleep on [TS]

◼   ► one of days [TS]

◼   ► it eliminates Commission driven and [TS]

◼   ► inflated prices [TS]

◼   ► it's an award-winning sleep surface that [TS]

◼   ► was developed in-house it has a sleek [TS]

◼   ► design and it's delivered in a small box [TS]

◼   ► so small that you will say how did they [TS]

◼   ► do that the answer is vacuum technology [TS]

◼   ► I think something like that involves [TS]

◼   ► sucking all the air out and it fits in a [TS]

◼   ► box and then you open it and push it [TS]

◼   ► expands back to its normal size addition [TS]

◼   ► to that that mattress though that [TS]

◼   ► Casper's famous for [TS]

◼   ► they also offer an adaptive pillow which [TS]

◼   ► I have as well and soft breathable [TS]

◼   ► sheets I've got those two boy [TS]

◼   ► yeah it's all good stuff it really is an [TS]

◼   ► in-house team of engineers a Casper [TS]

◼   ► spent thousands of hours developing the [TS]

◼   ► mattress it's got spring latex and [TS]

◼   ► support of memory foams and creating a [TS]

◼   ► sleep surface it's got just the right [TS]

◼   ► sink just the right balance and it's a [TS]

◼   ► breathable design so it's sleep school [TS]

◼   ► to help you regulate your temperature [TS]

◼   ► through the night [TS]

◼   ► mattresses often cost a lot of money [TS]

◼   ► well over fifteen hundred dollars casper [TS]

◼   ► mattresses started 504 twin 754 full 850 [TS]

◼   ► Queen up to 9 50 for a king buying a [TS]

◼   ► Casper mattress completely risk-free if [TS]

◼   ► you've got yourself while these casper [TS]

◼   ► mattresses [TS]

◼   ► sound good but you know what I don't [TS]

◼   ► want to buy a mattress on the internet [TS]

◼   ► that would be crazy [TS]

◼   ► don't worry about it Casper has free [TS]

◼   ► delivery and free returns with a hundred [TS]

◼   ► knight home trouble sleeping for three [TS]

◼   ► months and if you decide at any point [TS]

◼   ► you don't like it like Casper know they [TS]

◼   ► will take it away and give you your [TS]

◼   ► money back it is that simple [TS]

◼   ► so obsessively Matt engineering mattress [TS]

◼   ► shockingly fair price a great feel free [TS]

◼   ► shipping and returns to the US and [TS]

◼   ► canada try for a hundred Knights [TS]

◼   ► risk-free you don't love it they will [TS]

◼   ► take it away and you have lost nothing [TS]

◼   ► made in America it is Casper it is a [TS]

◼   ► great sleep surface try it out now you [TS]

◼   ► get fifty dollars toward any mattress [TS]

◼   ► purchase if you go to Casper calm / [TS]

◼   ► smell and use offer code smell [TS]

◼   ► terms and conditions apply thank you to [TS]

◼   ► Casper for sponsoring the incomparable [TS]

◼   ► so I'm gonna free everybody here I mean [TS]

◼   ► you shouldn't be listening if you have [TS]

◼   ► read the book but if you have are still [TS]

◼   ► listening we're gonna fire off a cry [TS]

◼   ► sort of a friendly spoiler horn right [TS]

◼   ► there just to make it clear before we go [TS]

◼   ► even deeper down in to the sparrow and [TS]

◼   ► if you like what you've heard from me [TS]

◼   ► and Shannon and Scott maybe you should [TS]

◼   ► read it and if you like what you heard [TS]

◼   ► America don't really hear [TS]

◼   ► it's beautiful music I feel like some of [TS]

◼   ► these episodes the spoiler horn is [TS]

◼   ► implied for the whole thing because why [TS]

◼   ► but yes I feel like we haven't like dug [TS]

◼   ► down into some of the worst of it which [TS]

◼   ► I'm gonna do right now because I mean [TS]

◼   ► when we talk about the two time frames [TS]

◼   ► right um i think it's interesting that [TS]

◼   ► that you could argue that this is trying [TS]

◼   ► to cushion the blow a little bit but of [TS]

◼   ► course i think also it's the structure [TS]

◼   ► is that she kind of wants the descent [TS]

◼   ► into darkness and the kind of like an [TS]

◼   ► ascent into finding a reason to live [TS]

◼   ► happen in parallel I mean I think that's [TS]

◼   ► what she's trying to do here it does [TS]

◼   ► give you the descent from the beginning [TS]

◼   ► when you're watching all these people [TS]

◼   ► who are very excited about this [TS]

◼   ► first-contact situation and going to [TS]

◼   ► this planet [TS]

◼   ► you already know that something horrible [TS]

◼   ► is going to happen and so that color's [TS]

◼   ► your judgment of it which it's it's an [TS]

◼   ► interesting choice I gotta say from the [TS]

◼   ► perspective of 20 years later one of the [TS]

◼   ► things about this book that did not [TS]

◼   ► impress me at all is one of the conceits [TS]

◼   ► here is that sandoz is returned by this [TS]

◼   ► second the second mission 2 rakaat he is [TS]

◼   ► he is found in a dungeon [TS]

◼   ► this is what happens he's found in a [TS]

◼   ► dungeon as the sex slave of an alien and [TS]

◼   ► they in all of his other and he and he [TS]

◼   ► seen killing an alien as they find him [TS]

◼   ► and then they put him on his asteroid [TS]

◼   ► ship and send it back to earth and radio [TS]

◼   ► back so it reaches them much before the [TS]

◼   ► the ship does that about this terrible [TS]

◼   ► you know state that they found him in [TS]

◼   ► and from the perspective of 2016 reading [TS]

◼   ► this I could not buy for a moment that [TS]

◼   ► the discovery of him [TS]

◼   ► everybody refers to him in the in the [TS]

◼   ► present timeline when he's this [TS]

◼   ► disgraced and disfigured because he said [TS]

◼   ► this horrible operation down his hands [TS]

◼   ► by these aliens as a prostitute and they [TS]

◼   ► everybody just assumes like okay first [TS]

◼   ► off let's let's break this down [TS]

◼   ► first off that he was a prostitute when [TS]

◼   ► they find him in a sex dungeon being a [TS]

◼   ► you know for for these aliens literally [TS]

◼   ► naked and bloody yeah nobody thinks one [TS]

◼   ► nobody thinks that perhaps another [TS]

◼   ► possibility was that he [TS]

◼   ► was forced into this and to when they [TS]

◼   ► call him a prostitute they assume it [TS]

◼   ► means that he was a willing and joyous [TS]

◼   ► prostitute which is also i think not [TS]

◼   ► something that you should assume and so [TS]

◼   ► it in reading this it this time I was [TS]

◼   ► like I i didn't i didn't buy that whole [TS]

◼   ► part of it makes everybody on earth [TS]

◼   ► essentially in the end in a later time [TS]

◼   ► frame seemed kinda like a dummy that [TS]

◼   ► because she wants this revelatory moment [TS]

◼   ► when he says no i wasn't doing that [TS]

◼   ► because I enjoyed being raped by aliens [TS]

◼   ► it was raped and and they're like what [TS]

◼   ► it was rape I had no idea it's like yeah [TS]

◼   ► you should've picked that up like when [TS]

◼   ► they radioed it back you should have [TS]

◼   ► figured that out [TS]

◼   ► mmm yes yeah that was that was my other [TS]

◼   ► big problem which I didn't know if we [TS]

◼   ► were in spoiler horn territory so I [TS]

◼   ► couldn't say that made me actually angry [TS]

◼   ► at this book because it's just I mean [TS]

◼   ► really the where we start out is in the [TS]

◼   ► the 2060 sort of present day and the [TS]

◼   ► whole framework of this book is based on [TS]

◼   ► the slow kind of on unveiling of what [TS]

◼   ► this character has gone through and and [TS]

◼   ► why he's he's so shamed and and and this [TS]

◼   ► is it I mean it just it nerf the rest of [TS]

◼   ► the Baltimore me to a really large [TS]

◼   ► degree [TS]

◼   ► yeah and I didn't feel that way 20 years [TS]

◼   ► ago but I I'm more aware of stuff like [TS]

◼   ► that now where I and and knowing what [TS]

◼   ► happens in the book and now i'm judging [TS]

◼   ► it on the reread based on what I already [TS]

◼   ► know what's going to happen i thought [TS]

◼   ► it's completely impossible to me that [TS]

◼   ► nobody would think that at any point I [TS]

◼   ► mean yeah I grant that there was a radio [TS]

◼   ► report from some people who had a skewed [TS]

◼   ► view of it and then he's silent because [TS]

◼   ► he's just kind of like coming back and [TS]

◼   ► he's completely comatose essentially and [TS]

◼   ► he won't talk to people so they don't [TS]

◼   ► know his part that nobody in the 20 [TS]

◼   ► intervening years has not considered as [TS]

◼   ► a serious possibility that he is the [TS]

◼   ► victim of a horrible crime and yet i [TS]

◼   ► think because Russell wants us to have [TS]

◼   ► that revelatory moment and I was [TS]

◼   ► thinking as I was reading like you know [TS]

◼   ► the way to tell this story is probably [TS]

◼   ► to have him just be found in prison and [TS]

◼   ► have them not understand [TS]

◼   ► just how awful his conditions were and [TS]

◼   ► then at the end of the book him having [TS]

◼   ► realized no actually they kept me [TS]

◼   ► frizzled those last 10 months that i was [TS]

◼   ► on that planet as a sex slave and raped [TS]

◼   ► me repeatedly and have everybody be [TS]

◼   ► horrified when he admits that this is [TS]

◼   ► part this terrible thing that happened [TS]

◼   ► to him but instead everybody knows and [TS]

◼   ► they assume it's his fault and there and [TS]

◼   ► they're blaming the victim because he [TS]

◼   ► was wearing [TS]

◼   ► he was wearing a jeweled collar don't [TS]

◼   ► you know I'm part of it is that um I [TS]

◼   ► think in this is a Russell doing some [TS]

◼   ► criticism possibly of how quick human [TS]

◼   ► how quick it is in human nature is to [TS]

◼   ► look for the scapegoat we don't get a [TS]

◼   ► huge amount of detail but the fact that [TS]

◼   ► the the Jesuits you know since this was [TS]

◼   ► a private enterprise essentially just [TS]

◼   ► sort of you know snuck you know their [TS]

◼   ► team often into the asteroid before the [TS]

◼   ► United Nations or anybody else was even [TS]

◼   ► aware that somebody was actually going [TS]

◼   ► to try that the arm try to contact this [TS]

◼   ► planet a lot of people it was public [TS]

◼   ► that the contact has been made but um [TS]

◼   ► but no nobody official no government [TS]

◼   ► tried to do anything about it as quickly [TS]

◼   ► as the Jesuits did on and then for it to [TS]

◼   ► go so completely pear-shaped and buried [TS]

◼   ► all the transmissions right so it is [TS]

◼   ► nobody knows that's been a media [TS]

◼   ► blackout the scandal as a result when [TS]

◼   ► the UN committee when the UN [TS]

◼   ► representatives are as part of the [TS]

◼   ► second group get there you know they yes [TS]

◼   ► they jump to the wrong conclusion [TS]

◼   ► extremely stupidly arm but they are also [TS]

◼   ► looking at the entire rest of the crew [TS]

◼   ► is dead and the planet that they came to [TS]

◼   ► visit which apparently when they arrived [TS]

◼   ► was in this nice peaceful planet and [TS]

◼   ► everything's hunky-dory is now going [TS]

◼   ► through a civil war you know then that [TS]

◼   ► and the UN is either looking they're all [TS]

◼   ► looking for somebody to blame at the [TS]

◼   ► moment [TS]

◼   ► sandoz is the only one to blame so [TS]

◼   ► they've got this tunnel vision and jump [TS]

◼   ► and like jumping to conclusions i agree [TS]

◼   ► if this book was written today I don't [TS]

◼   ► think Russell would have had every [TS]

◼   ► single character more or less believing [TS]

◼   ► the original story somebody would have [TS]

◼   ► question [TS]

◼   ► didn't but this was 1996 and gender [TS]

◼   ► issues and so forth have advanced since [TS]

◼   ► then also and in the books defense guess [TS]

◼   ► I didn't say that i do think that it [TS]

◼   ► took so long for him in first time for [TS]

◼   ► him to travel back and the only [TS]

◼   ► information that they had you know why [TS]

◼   ► wouldn't they trust the word of these un [TS]

◼   ► advisor people because they probably [TS]

◼   ► didn't give super great details about [TS]

◼   ► the fact that he was naked and dirty and [TS]

◼   ► bloody and you know it [TS]

◼   ► non-responsive physically after they [TS]

◼   ► after they release him [TS]

◼   ► yeah the first thing they saw him do [TS]

◼   ► when they go into that cell of the alien [TS]

◼   ► girl who as a very young child [TS]

◼   ► sandoz had managed to make first contact [TS]

◼   ► whether his talent is linguistics and [TS]

◼   ► he's able to soak in and create and [TS]

◼   ► figure out languages very quickly on so [TS]

◼   ► the idea that this was a an alien that [TS]

◼   ► knew who he was and it sounded like that [TS]

◼   ► they were supposed to be at least [TS]

◼   ► friendly but sandoz attacks the second [TS]

◼   ► the seller's opened we learn that he [TS]

◼   ► sort of psych himself up into I'm going [TS]

◼   ► to end this one way or the other I'm [TS]

◼   ► getting out or I'm dying and it's just [TS]

◼   ► horrible bad luck that the first person [TS]

◼   ► through the door is this young alien [TS]

◼   ► girl and the first thing those you when [TS]

◼   ► people see is him run into her smack or [TS]

◼   ► so hard into the wall that she breaks [TS]

◼   ► her skull or her ribcage and kills her [TS]

◼   ► rights and so is that so the the thing [TS]

◼   ► is that these guys have basically grown [TS]

◼   ► up live most of their lives knowing they [TS]

◼   ► think what the deal is with this guy so [TS]

◼   ► I mean it's it is a pretty ingrained [TS]

◼   ► idea of what had happened to him so I [TS]

◼   ► mean I still don't completely by it but [TS]

◼   ► at least at least you know if they they [TS]

◼   ► had an awful long time to have believed [TS]

◼   ► this thing so that that meeting this [TS]

◼   ► weird guy is probably not going to [TS]

◼   ► completely jar that out of their minds [TS]

◼   ► yeah I yeah I just feel like from the [TS]

◼   ► perspective of 20 years later I'm like [TS]

◼   ► oh it's it could have been tweaked a [TS]

◼   ► little bit and been much more kind of [TS]

◼   ► believable to me then that it actually [TS]

◼   ► is [TS]

◼   ► let's say I mean we should let's talk [TS]

◼   ► about the food [TS]

◼   ► there's so much here I the characters [TS]

◼   ► are really interesting we we we meet we [TS]

◼   ► meet another another Jesuit who is we we [TS]

◼   ► find out right before he dies it's very [TS]

◼   ► much a i'm going to download all my [TS]

◼   ► final information before I die [TS]

◼   ► who is his mentor that he's actually a [TS]

◼   ► gay priests and because and I think what [TS]

◼   ► honestly one of the reasons that the the [TS]

◼   ► rape is part of the story of Santos is [TS]

◼   ► because she wants to us to think about [TS]

◼   ► and we we do for the whole book think [TS]

◼   ► about thousands of celibacy here because [TS]

◼   ► of course and O's falls in love and [TS]

◼   ► basically pushes the woman who falls in [TS]

◼   ► love with away because he has you know [TS]

◼   ► he he's now kind of high on his final [TS]

◼   ► hit you know it's sudden contact with [TS]

◼   ► what he believes is his destiny guided [TS]

◼   ► by god I'm so that that's part of the [TS]

◼   ► theme there but that's an interesting [TS]

◼   ► character he's a Texan we've got the the [TS]

◼   ► uh it's a Jewish artificial artificial [TS]

◼   ► intelligence experts who makes her [TS]

◼   ► living she's a vulture she makes her [TS]

◼   ► living basically scripting people's [TS]

◼   ► brains like into computer code so that [TS]

◼   ► they can be a little jobs can be [TS]

◼   ► eliminated but he falls in love with her [TS]

◼   ► and I thought it was interesting that [TS]

◼   ► the her character is a oh well not owned [TS]

◼   ► but yeah surfing right for most of the [TS]

◼   ► book in this guy who pays deals and [TS]

◼   ► basically pietrzyk people futures right [TS]

◼   ► he pays for he identifies a talented [TS]

◼   ► poor children and put them through [TS]

◼   ► school and you know identifies their [TS]

◼   ► their talent and then they basically [TS]

◼   ► have to work off all of the money he's [TS]

◼   ► invested in them so they contract them [TS]

◼   ► out and she is one of those people and I [TS]

◼   ► just thought that was something that did [TS]

◼   ► not seem that far-fetched to actually [TS]

◼   ► happening now today his which made me [TS]

◼   ► depressed [TS]

◼   ► yeah that was a bit so the whole Sophia [TS]

◼   ► mendez story is like a little like other [TS]

◼   ► science-fiction novel that she could [TS]

◼   ► have written because that that that the [TS]

◼   ► idea there also you know she's [TS]

◼   ► extrapolating 20 years ahead in her [TS]

◼   ► future there is a [TS]

◼   ► it's actually not too far off of what is [TS]

◼   ► happened in Syria happens in this book [TS]

◼   ► in turkey where there are right up there [TS]

◼   ► terrorists and a war a civil war and you [TS]

◼   ► end up with she's basically her parents [TS]

◼   ► are killed and she is she is sold off [TS]

◼   ► into prostitution first and then becomes [TS]

◼   ► an indentured slave and a highly [TS]

◼   ► educated professional at that point but [TS]

◼   ► she still got the fact that she wears [TS]

◼   ► this like bracelet that is her symbol of [TS]

◼   ► being owned until she can pay off her [TS]

◼   ► debt and it's a it's a whole interesting [TS]

◼   ► idea that is kind of just tossed off as [TS]

◼   ► a a side aspect of this plot but another [TS]

◼   ► thing to felt like a whole very [TS]

◼   ► interesting science fictional premise [TS]

◼   ► what about the UH I mean that if anybody [TS]

◼   ► have any other characters that they want [TS]

◼   ► to talk about and we can we get we get [TS]

◼   ► Jimmy Quinn who is your stock uh he's [TS]

◼   ► just a big science nerd who discovers [TS]

◼   ► aliens you know as you do you dig [TS]

◼   ► literally like I'm feet 7 yeah he's the [TS]

◼   ► 777 and a half foot er um I like all the [TS]

◼   ► aliens think so clearly he's your mother [TS]

◼   ► and you should be carrying our house [TS]

◼   ► install yeah i'll come back to that [TS]

◼   ► later but yeah the fact that they're [TS]

◼   ► judging each other's races the humans [TS]

◼   ► and the the Runa is the first group of [TS]

◼   ► aliens they meet on this planet and [TS]

◼   ► they're judging gender by size and they [TS]

◼   ► figure out much later just how scrambled [TS]

◼   ► everything has gotten that apparently [TS]

◼   ► you know Emilio's studies in the [TS]

◼   ► language he made the same assumptions as [TS]

◼   ► far as which gender is being declined [TS]

◼   ► with which noun and finding out that yes [TS]

◼   ► they all assume that big seven-foot-tall [TS]

◼   ► Jimmy was the mom because he was the [TS]

◼   ► biggest you know if it had been just [TS]

◼   ► just sighs that was the gender thing i [TS]

◼   ► would have I would have found it amusing [TS]

◼   ► and interesting but no this is another [TS]

◼   ► this is another sign that this book was [TS]

◼   ► written 20 years ago because it was and [TS]

◼   ► the anthropologist also makes note of [TS]

◼   ► the fact that it wasn't just the size [TS]

◼   ► but it was also the moral duties that [TS]

◼   ► very happened and you know who is taking [TS]

◼   ► care of the children and and being sort [TS]

◼   ► of more maternal [TS]

◼   ► that sort of thing and I when he was [TS]

◼   ► going out of business in the bigger [TS]

◼   ► world yeah that's true but it's not flip [TS]

◼   ► with rona isn't that wasn't that the [TS]

◼   ► point there is everybody's making gender [TS]

◼   ► gender assumptions and it's the opposite [TS]

◼   ► right but she was she was just saying [TS]

◼   ► that that humans still have a certain [TS]

◼   ► gender assumptions which is the thing [TS]

◼   ► that was problematic for me at this at [TS]

◼   ► this point it's 2020 now milan i did i [TS]

◼   ► did laugh at the point where the book is [TS]

◼   ► taking place in what is now our present [TS]

◼   ► day and that was although although she [TS]

◼   ► didn't get tablets right shit these [TS]

◼   ► people are using tablets a lot like all [TS]

◼   ► right that's pretty good [TS]

◼   ► yep it's pretty good job and Jimmy [TS]

◼   ► Jimmy's a home computer gets hacked into [TS]

◼   ► by some teenagers that students write [TS]

◼   ► something about that right yeah they're [TS]

◼   ► so there's some some paper at one point [TS]

◼   ► that I was like nope that's probably not [TS]

◼   ► right but I thought you did okay with [TS]

◼   ► that as far as characters i love the [TS]

◼   ► Edwardses oh yeah I love the it's this [TS]

◼   ► it's a couple that you know you would [TS]

◼   ► not automatically assume to be the type [TS]

◼   ► of people to go on this mission they are [TS]

◼   ► in their sixties they essentially have [TS]

◼   ► retired and are doing volunteer / [TS]

◼   ► mission work in Puerto Rico that they're [TS]

◼   ► a hoot and a half [TS]

◼   ► just the way the conversations between [TS]

◼   ► them the way that they quit back and [TS]

◼   ► forth and with their friends is [TS]

◼   ► delightful but the that these are not [TS]

◼   ► your standard um hero's journey go off [TS]

◼   ► and quest type two kinds of people which [TS]

◼   ► i think is great i think yeah that was [TS]

◼   ► one of the things I like to the best i [TS]

◼   ► think and the most because you get to [TS]

◼   ► see a lot of her inner life as compared [TS]

◼   ► with George most of his inner life is is [TS]

◼   ► shown through and over but i just-i I [TS]

◼   ► liked her as a character i liked the way [TS]

◼   ► that she reacted to other people and to [TS]

◼   ► think she was thinking and I just you're [TS]

◼   ► right that the hoot and a half thing I [TS]

◼   ► wanted them to be my friends I want to [TS]

◼   ► go i wanted to go to their house and how [TS]

◼   ► many of them are these girls parties [TS]

◼   ► because she just [TS]

◼   ► yeah she sounded like the greatest host [TS]

◼   ► in the world yeah it's a fun you know [TS]

◼   ► these characters meet sandoz earlier on [TS]

◼   ► and then he basically says you should [TS]

◼   ► come to Puerto Rico and they're like [TS]

◼   ► yeah let's do it and they're there are a [TS]

◼   ► lot of fun and this is that's one of the [TS]

◼   ► things about this that [TS]

◼   ► about this like let's let's buy an [TS]

◼   ► asteroid not tell anybody that I kind of [TS]

◼   ► like is that you know when else are you [TS]

◼   ► going to see a story about a bunch of [TS]

◼   ► friends deciding that they're gonna be [TS]

◼   ► the ones to send a spaceship for a first [TS]

◼   ► contact with aliens it's like that is [TS]

◼   ► not gonna happen right and yet that is [TS]

◼   ► the purpose of this tour including the [TS]

◼   ► retired husband and wife who are the [TS]

◼   ► last people that you would normally [TS]

◼   ► expect to see in a first-contact space [TS]

◼   ► mission but they go and of course which [TS]

◼   ► is where you really need you really need [TS]

◼   ► the God aspect of it there because that [TS]

◼   ► does actually make it work without [TS]

◼   ► feeling hand-wavy because you can just [TS]

◼   ► be like okay you know [TS]

◼   ► Yeah right right although the what's [TS]

◼   ► interesting about the the couple is that [TS]

◼   ► the the wife who's the doctor is um is a [TS]

◼   ► basically completely lapsed Catholic and [TS]

◼   ► although she may potentially change your [TS]

◼   ► tune when they get to the alien planet [TS]

◼   ► you know she's she's among a lot of [TS]

◼   ► people who are believers she is not one [TS]

◼   ► and it's a very interesting kind of kind [TS]

◼   ► of combination that they have their it's [TS]

◼   ► a good yeah those are really good [TS]

◼   ► characters the dialogue is really good [TS]

◼   ► with those characters I felt like a lot [TS]

◼   ► of these characters really jump off the [TS]

◼   ► page not only sandoz but the the couple [TS]

◼   ► and Sophia mendez and the the Texan [TS]

◼   ► priests to who is a mentor [TS]

◼   ► these are all characters that this is [TS]

◼   ► one of those books where i can actually [TS]

◼   ► like I i start to cast people and staged [TS]

◼   ► scenes and higher their voices talking [TS]

◼   ► because the characters are so strong and [TS]

◼   ► and memorable I let's talk about aliens [TS]

◼   ► how about that no okay Scott you can [TS]

◼   ► stick limes so we get direct we get 2 [TS]

◼   ► rakaat day they take a hollowed-out [TS]

◼   ► remaining asteroid and they threw [TS]

◼   ► magical undescribed of engine AI program [TS]

◼   ► is slightly physics you can accelerate [TS]

◼   ► and how they do that we don't know and [TS]

◼   ► then they decelerate and then they get 2 [TS]

◼   ► rakaat and you know it it's fine and and [TS]

◼   ► they meet it and i really like i said [TS]

◼   ► i'm a sucker for first contact up i [TS]

◼   ► really like first off they land kinda [TS]

◼   ► like far away from everything and [TS]

◼   ► they're just sort of like basking in the [TS]

◼   ► you know in the in being off [TS]

◼   ► the asteroid 41 and in this new [TS]

◼   ► ecosystem of all alien stuff that they [TS]

◼   ► don't know anything about and they have [TS]

◼   ► to like eat little bit of food to see if [TS]

◼   ► the current it's poisonous or not which [TS]

◼   ► I kind of enjoyed all of that and and [TS]

◼   ► they do all of that and somebody dies [TS]

◼   ► actually which land they don't know why [TS]

◼   ► which I also really kind of like that [TS]

◼   ► this is when you're getting to the [TS]

◼   ► Jesuits coming to the new world right [TS]

◼   ► which is there are far from home that [TS]

◼   ► their that they're not going to just [TS]

◼   ► subsist on their rations they are trying [TS]

◼   ► to figure this out some of the people [TS]

◼   ► aren't going to make it and and there's [TS]

◼   ► not gonna be a clear reason why and then [TS]

◼   ► they finally meet the the aliens on this [TS]

◼   ► planet or at least they think of the [TS]

◼   ► aliens on this planet which are the Runa [TS]

◼   ► I'm and they and they have this question [TS]

◼   ► of like they get some stuff confused but [TS]

◼   ► because Santos is there because he's a [TS]

◼   ► brilliant translator and they they spend [TS]

◼   ► some time trying to figure out who these [TS]

◼   ► people are and and and how their culture [TS]

◼   ► works and I loved all of this stuff and [TS]

◼   ► it goes i was i was happy I was afraid [TS]

◼   ► that this was going to go on for like [TS]

◼   ► one chapter and then be done and and my [TS]

◼   ► memory of it is so warm that I wanted to [TS]

◼   ► go on longer and in the book actually [TS]

◼   ► goes on a very long time that they're [TS]

◼   ► that this whole portion is but i really [TS]

◼   ► enjoyed the whole first contact with [TS]

◼   ► value with Runa I'd read that as well [TS]

◼   ► but i do think there's they they spend [TS]

◼   ► like a year in this little village and [TS]

◼   ► they never liked feet ask about the city [TS]

◼   ► and try to get more information I found [TS]

◼   ► an odd but i did--like i enjoyed reading [TS]

◼   ► about it but I was like if i was there i [TS]

◼   ► might you know go check out the city or [TS]

◼   ► something I don't know it seems very [TS]

◼   ► tempting but maybe they're so [TS]

◼   ► overwhelmed with the the novelty like [TS]

◼   ► everything is new on this alien planet [TS]

◼   ► obviously they're writing scholarly [TS]

◼   ► papers about the you know they're taking [TS]

◼   ► it slow [TS]

◼   ► yeah i think part of it is being [TS]

◼   ► cautious and I'd I'm under the [TS]

◼   ► impression that at least among [TS]

◼   ► themselves some of the characters are [TS]

◼   ► saying you know we really need to you [TS]

◼   ► know try and you know try and find the [TS]

◼   ► people who are the singers because the [TS]

◼   ► whole reason they've come to this planet [TS]

◼   ► is the music that the city picked up and [TS]

◼   ► this particular population they don't [TS]

◼   ► music no they don't do it but i can see [TS]

◼   ► i think maybe it does stretch on a [TS]

◼   ► little bit farther than it could that [TS]

◼   ► might need to but [TS]

◼   ► there's always seems to be something [TS]

◼   ► else to do something else to take care [TS]

◼   ► of before trying to go on to the next [TS]

◼   ► thing ya i have I'm of two minds about [TS]

◼   ► this because on the one hand like I mean [TS]

◼   ► it from a logical perspective it does [TS]

◼   ► make sense to to sort of take your time [TS]

◼   ► and do it methodically accept these are [TS]

◼   ► people that immediately decided to jump [TS]

◼   ► in an asteroid and go to another planet [TS]

◼   ► so I don't feel like that that argument [TS]

◼   ► that great with impulse control that [TS]

◼   ► argument doesn't quite work however on [TS]

◼   ► the other side the reason that they were [TS]

◼   ► able to jump into an asteroid so quickly [TS]

◼   ► is because they're Jesuits and it was [TS]

◼   ► God's plan you know that this everything [TS]

◼   ► seemed to and they didn't talk in detail [TS]

◼   ► about all of the stuff that had to [TS]

◼   ► miraculously happen in order for it to [TS]

◼   ► fall into place but you know from and [TS]

◼   ► musing musings that they make it very [TS]

◼   ► clear that that everything sort of came [TS]

◼   ► together perfectly at the last minute in [TS]

◼   ► a way that did seem like it was [TS]

◼   ► miraculous so it made it very easy for [TS]

◼   ► the the higher-ups in the in the Jesuits [TS]

◼   ► to to say yes you know this is this is [TS]

◼   ► meant to be and I believe that there [TS]

◼   ► were a couple of nods to that in that [TS]

◼   ► like you know Jimmy really did want to [TS]

◼   ► get out there and go in the city but for [TS]

◼   ► one reason or another it seems like they [TS]

◼   ► should stay there [TS]

◼   ► you know the whole God's plan again [TS]

◼   ► amelia was leaning that way right and [TS]

◼   ► also um Russell does take care the the [TS]

◼   ► first member of the crew to die of what [TS]

◼   ► appears to be natural causes they try [TS]

◼   ► you know that and the doctor tries to do [TS]

◼   ► an autopsy and with essentially field [TS]

◼   ► conditions and can't figure it out [TS]

◼   ► that was the music expert right so like [TS]

◼   ► the biggest driving force in the party [TS]

◼   ► is removed very early on [TS]

◼   ► yep yeah the other thing that's [TS]

◼   ► brilliant that's like I said this is up [TS]

◼   ► it makes it so clear that Russell [TS]

◼   ► strength is anthropology because she [TS]

◼   ► throws in the gender mix-up at the [TS]

◼   ► beginning and you know it it turns out [TS]

◼   ► to be fairly harmless they just have to [TS]

◼   ► reassess what they had assumed and [TS]

◼   ► rework some of their papers but you know [TS]

◼   ► to make such a monumental [TS]

◼   ► misunderstanding of of the gender of [TS]

◼   ► these peak of the of the Runa arm and [TS]

◼   ► then take something as simple as [TS]

◼   ► you know we really need to grow our own [TS]

◼   ► food you know we yes we can eat a lot of [TS]

◼   ► the stuff on this planet but you know it [TS]

◼   ► would help if we had our own and you [TS]

◼   ► know just something simple as a plant a [TS]

◼   ► garden in this village and and start [TS]

◼   ► eating the stuff there [TS]

◼   ► turns out to have catastrophic effects [TS]

◼   ► on the biosphere because we learn that [TS]

◼   ► there's a second alien race that [TS]

◼   ► essentially you have a predator and prey [TS]

◼   ► situation that has evolved into this [TS]

◼   ► entire set of the job [TS]

◼   ► the Jaffa Jaffa yeah this is what I want [TS]

◼   ► when I tell you have the Jon a one of [TS]

◼   ► the things that's interesting here is is [TS]

◼   ► yes Shannon this day the innocence of we [TS]

◼   ► need to grow a garden is the thing that [TS]

◼   ► essentially destroys this planet at [TS]

◼   ► least as it was before they got there [TS]

◼   ► which is is a an amazing kind of moment [TS]

◼   ► where it unravels gradually and they [TS]

◼   ► realize what's going on [TS]

◼   ► so you mentioned that we should say it [TS]

◼   ► so there it turns out that this is a [TS]

◼   ► planet with two races and the reason [TS]

◼   ► that the Runa seem kind of dasol is that [TS]

◼   ► they have evolved from prey animals and [TS]

◼   ► there's another species that has [TS]

◼   ► involved evolved as their predators and [TS]

◼   ► they look similar because that was the [TS]

◼   ► hunting method used by the historical [TS]

◼   ► predators but the Janata have three [TS]

◼   ► claws instead of sort of five very [TS]

◼   ► dexterous fingers and when we meet one [TS]

◼   ► of them and it almost kills sandoz when [TS]

◼   ► we do we discovered that this planet is [TS]

◼   ► far more complicated than they have [TS]

◼   ► really anticipated and i like i like [TS]

◼   ► when they're like with the with the Runa [TS]

◼   ► because I feel like yeah they're they're [TS]

◼   ► they're so overwhelmed with meeting [TS]

◼   ► these people that they would they want [TS]

◼   ► to kind of take it slow and i think i [TS]

◼   ► can buy that but at that moment when [TS]

◼   ► they meet the jaw nada is that [TS]

◼   ► revelatory moments like oh this is much [TS]

◼   ► more alien than we really expected and [TS]

◼   ► we finally we'll go to the city with [TS]

◼   ► them [TS]

◼   ► it turns out that again Russell used the [TS]

◼   ► the traditional kind of predator prey [TS]

◼   ► population balance which is something [TS]

◼   ► that's like three or four [TS]

◼   ► scent of the population of this planet [TS]

◼   ► is the jhana ahh because that's [TS]

◼   ► generally the percentage of the ratio [TS]

◼   ► between predators and prey and and when [TS]

◼   ► you put it when you layer that on [TS]

◼   ► sentient creatures and this was a moment [TS]

◼   ► that I really liked you realize that [TS]

◼   ► what you've constructed is a ruling [TS]

◼   ► class a very small ruling class and a [TS]

◼   ► very large essentially slave or surf [TS]

◼   ► class and that's actually the culture of [TS]

◼   ► ricotta and and not just a slave class [TS]

◼   ► but they're still pray they still needs [TS]

◼   ► to us its candidate to us it feels like [TS]

◼   ► cannibalism because you've got to [TS]

◼   ► sentient you know races and one of them [TS]

◼   ► is eating the other but yeah we finally [TS]

◼   ► learned that that's one of the reasons [TS]

◼   ► that the population control is so rigid [TS]

◼   ► the rihanna the Runa are not allowed to [TS]

◼   ► breed are unless they earn it by [TS]

◼   ► gathering uh apparently perfume scent is [TS]

◼   ► massively a massive part of this culture [TS]

◼   ► and uh the Runa gather of the flowers [TS]

◼   ► and the plants needed to create these [TS]

◼   ► perfumes and create these sense and if [TS]

◼   ► they do a good enough job [TS]

◼   ► hey they get the right to have a [TS]

◼   ► generation kids that are better on bread [TS]

◼   ► with butter chosen by John auto because [TS]

◼   ► they're all the breeding them like [TS]

◼   ► humans would breed dogs [TS]

◼   ► yes yes exactly Jonna auto themselves [TS]

◼   ► are also under population control [TS]

◼   ► because they can't have too many of them [TS]

◼   ► because they need to keep the balance of [TS]

◼   ► the prey and the predator and so when [TS]

◼   ► when she introduces a super pirate right [TS]

◼   ► he's a third yeah he's the third so we [TS]

◼   ► meet him before he meets the humans and [TS]

◼   ► so we get we find out he's a third he [TS]

◼   ► can't have he can start his own family [TS]

◼   ► he really wants to he's really good at [TS]

◼   ► you know finding trends and you know [TS]

◼   ► cashing in on it so it's supremely [TS]

◼   ► wealthy but he's cool finder he has a [TS]

◼   ► cool he is it a friend spotter [TS]

◼   ► super-wealthy is very successful but he [TS]

◼   ► doesn't get any respect and he really [TS]

◼   ► wants to start his own family and the [TS]

◼   ► only way you can do that is if you get [TS]

◼   ► one [TS]

◼   ► what's the the dead head guys name [TS]

◼   ► registrar I think oh yeah the rest are [TS]

◼   ► yeah that's the title [TS]

◼   ► yeah you have to you don't impress him [TS]

◼   ► or do something worthy of being able to [TS]

◼   ► found your own family and so we know [TS]

◼   ► that's his motive and so when he meets [TS]

◼   ► the humans we know a boy this is not [TS]

◼   ► going to turn out well but they don't [TS]

◼   ► know that obviously and spoiler alert it [TS]

◼   ► doesn't know me he does he uses them for [TS]

◼   ► his own he takes his time yeah yeah [TS]

◼   ► that's right he uses he uses them but it [TS]

◼   ► in the beginning using them is not a [TS]

◼   ► particularly terrible but there comes a [TS]

◼   ► moment where he basically has to sell [TS]

◼   ► them out and does and without you know a [TS]

◼   ► moment's hesitation without any [TS]

◼   ► compulsion yeah because he's like [TS]

◼   ► whatever [TS]

◼   ► yeah I got what I wanted to get whatever [TS]

◼   ► I mean at that point she had been told [TS]

◼   ► he had made it would what seems like an [TS]

◼   ► actual emotional connection with a and [TS]

◼   ► but she dies much earlier on and by the [TS]

◼   ► time that soup re-release actually sells [TS]

◼   ► them out the only person left at that [TS]

◼   ► point is Emilio whom he didn't really [TS]

◼   ► care for to start with so I don't feel [TS]

◼   ► like I don't feel like he's necessarily [TS]

◼   ► you know it's throwing over some [TS]

◼   ► convictions that he had because the fan [TS]

◼   ► would have still been alive it might [TS]

◼   ► have been a different story true it's [TS]

◼   ► true [TS]

◼   ► well in fact support you could argue is [TS]

◼   ► is a be the thing that the NOC but he's [TS]

◼   ► got a with the other Janata is that he's [TS]

◼   ► so much he gets along so well with the [TS]

◼   ► Runa and if you think if you think about [TS]

◼   ► that any human context right [TS]

◼   ► he is a member of a ruling class whose [TS]

◼   ► greatest skill is dealing with the [TS]

◼   ► subjugated class and that is not good [TS]

◼   ► right even if it makes him a good [TS]

◼   ► businessman it means he is going to [TS]

◼   ► never be able to access high society [TS]

◼   ► because of that because he's his is all [TS]

◼   ► of his skills are in dealing with the [TS]

◼   ► lower class of of people in this case [TS]

◼   ► the Runa and so when he meets and and [TS]

◼   ► really really kind of bonds with her i [TS]

◼   ► believe that bond because I feel like [TS]

◼   ► that's what he's good at is meeting with [TS]

◼   ► other kinds of people he's kind of like [TS]

◼   ► the anthropologist of the jama oughtta [TS]

◼   ► but the problem is the only way he's [TS]

◼   ► gonna be able to further his line is to [TS]

◼   ► be appointed as the head of a new family [TS]

◼   ► which means he's got his success thing [TS]

◼   ► in the background and and you know and [TS]

◼   ► eyes [TS]

◼   ► off screen which I have a problem with [TS]

◼   ► and and in the end he just goes another [TS]

◼   ► direction but I think that's a really [TS]

◼   ► interesting character because although [TS]

◼   ► he portrays them at the end I think I i [TS]

◼   ► like that character because he's kinda [TS]

◼   ► portrayed as being an outcast from the [TS]

◼   ► jaw nada he's more like us than the rest [TS]

◼   ► of them are which i think is one of the [TS]

◼   ► problems with them under estimating the [TS]

◼   ► Janata as as a people is that the party [TS]

◼   ► and the wrong model for what they are [TS]

◼   ► because he's the weird he's a weirdo [TS]

◼   ► definitely is a weird he's gone native [TS]

◼   ► essentially with the with Runa and it [TS]

◼   ► and now with the humans and you know do [TS]

◼   ► not think that the rest of the people [TS]

◼   ► are like him because they are really not [TS]

◼   ► like him [TS]

◼   ► yes they're their encounters with the [TS]

◼   ► rest of Janata aren't the the free-range [TS]

◼   ► Jonathan ahead with City Jedi are not so [TS]

◼   ► good no right no we are either because [TS]

◼   ► they're the roving bands who are still [TS]

◼   ► sort of just acting as predators [TS]

◼   ► I feel like I was like their loan motors [TS]

◼   ► and they just go in and poach and sadly [TS]

◼   ► they poach some humans they do so let me [TS]

◼   ► let me so one of my remember 20 years [TS]

◼   ► ago ish when I read this book that I did [TS]

◼   ► it my biggest complaint about it is that [TS]

◼   ► i felt like and i'm going to describe it [TS]

◼   ► the way that I described it back then [TS]

◼   ► which is I felt like at some point she [TS]

◼   ► realized she needed to finish the book [TS]

◼   ► and what who and what was a meandering [TS]

◼   ► leisurely walk through dialogue and and [TS]

◼   ► aggressions and descriptions rapidly [TS]

◼   ► becomes a plot output to get to the end [TS]

◼   ► yeah i buy it so this time this time i [TS]

◼   ► watched for it and the fact is every [TS]

◼   ► chapter alternates between the two [TS]

◼   ► timelines until the last two chapters [TS]

◼   ► and last two chapters are both in the [TS]

◼   ► present-day the later timeline and they [TS]

◼   ► describe everything that happened on the [TS]

◼   ► planet in very short terms at a any [TS]

◼   ► completely different style than the rest [TS]

◼   ► of the book and it still frustrates me I [TS]

◼   ► was wondering if I would be proven wrong [TS]

◼   ► and rereading it and instead I was going [TS]

◼   ► to vindicate its like I do feel driven [TS]

◼   ► right I do feel like she ran out of time [TS]

◼   ► or ran out [TS]

◼   ► the of energy and she wanted to finish [TS]

◼   ► but I also i don't know whether this is [TS]

◼   ► true or not but I also feel like maybe [TS]

◼   ► she was a little cowardly about her [TS]

◼   ► killing her characters because we don't [TS]

◼   ► see and DW get killed on screen and we [TS]

◼   ► don't see the massacre that is the final [TS]

◼   ► destruction of this mission to the whole [TS]

◼   ► thing that they've been leading up to [TS]

◼   ► where everything goes wrong it's this [TS]

◼   ► incredibly dramatic thing and it is told [TS]

◼   ► in this perfunctory flashback fashion [TS]

◼   ► where we never really get to see it at [TS]

◼   ► anything like the level of everything [TS]

◼   ► else we've seen up to that point and its [TS]

◼   ► really frustrating it's made a little [TS]

◼   ► more frustrating by the fact that in the [TS]

◼   ► sequel to this book which i also read 20 [TS]

◼   ► or 15 15 years ago and was disappointing [TS]

◼   ► i have to say it turns out that perhaps [TS]

◼   ► one of the reasons that she did this is [TS]

◼   ► because she was cheating and she wanted [TS]

◼   ► to lie about exactly who died in that [TS]

◼   ► massacre which is also frustrating but [TS]

◼   ► anyway right [TS]

◼   ► my point is my point is though that you [TS]

◼   ► can't it seems to me as as a reader and [TS]

◼   ► maybe even as an editor you can't be [TS]

◼   ► going like 20 miles an hour taking in [TS]

◼   ► all the sights and then when you get to [TS]

◼   ► the key point in the book [TS]

◼   ► floor it and that's what happens at the [TS]

◼   ► end of this book i agree because I was [TS]

◼   ► I've been my school is starting again so [TS]

◼   ► you know I've been busy and rushed and [TS]

◼   ► trying to read as best I could and here [TS]

◼   ► i was i still have like 60 pages of the [TS]

◼   ► book left to go at nine o'clock this [TS]

◼   ► evening and we started recording at [TS]

◼   ► ten-thirty my time and I'm thinking like [TS]

◼   ► I don't know that i'll finish but i'm [TS]

◼   ► going to try um yeah i was able to get [TS]

◼   ► through 60 pages in like 45 minutes [TS]

◼   ► because it is so much [TS]

◼   ► boom boom boom report report report yeah [TS]

◼   ► yeah it's not it's not your imagination [TS]

◼   ► i can i can come up with the reason i [TS]

◼   ► don't know if it's a good reason or not [TS]

◼   ► but i'll try to explain it so i think it [TS]

◼   ► could mirror one could argue sandoz [TS]

◼   ► journey at the beginning of the book is [TS]

◼   ► reticent he does want to talk about [TS]

◼   ► anything he's thinking about remembering [TS]

◼   ► the good times on the planet right and [TS]

◼   ► then as we're getting through there's [TS]

◼   ► that revelatory moments where they [TS]

◼   ► figure out [TS]

◼   ► you were in a prostitute you were being [TS]

◼   ► gang-raped and he you know he admits it [TS]

◼   ► and it wasn't his fault he finally kind [TS]

◼   ► of says you know [TS]

◼   ► ok wasn't my fault it wasn't anything I [TS]

◼   ► could do I was raped and then you cut [TS]

◼   ► there's that there's a pivotal moment [TS]

◼   ► for him and he suddenly just starts [TS]

◼   ► talking about what happens and reveals [TS]

◼   ► all these details and that's the last 60 [TS]

◼   ► pages of the book now I don't know if [TS]

◼   ► that's a good reason but that if i had [TS]

◼   ► to write a paper explain the structure [TS]

◼   ► of the book that sure what I would write [TS]

◼   ► about [TS]

◼   ► yes i think is not that bad headcanon [TS]

◼   ► Scott but yeah there's a lot of great [TS]

◼   ► stuff in that that village i [TS]

◼   ► particularly like where they start [TS]

◼   ► farming because they need to to you know [TS]

◼   ► grow their own food and the arena [TS]

◼   ► obviously pay attention although you [TS]

◼   ► know that this point we don't think that [TS]

◼   ► the ruins are all that right but it just [TS]

◼   ► turns out that they are they are as [TS]

◼   ► bright as the regular people they just [TS]

◼   ► have you know that they're aliens so [TS]

◼   ► they do things differently and then they [TS]

◼   ► notice that the farming and so they're [TS]

◼   ► like gee why do we keep trudging so far [TS]

◼   ► away to get our food when we can grow [TS]

◼   ► some food here [TS]

◼   ► some food here [TS]

◼   ► and they start doing it and then of [TS]

◼   ► course that least horrible things i [TS]

◼   ► should point out horrible beatings and [TS]

◼   ► civil war and what they have done is [TS]

◼   ► also this incredible to put in Star Trek [TS]

◼   ► terms violation of the prime directive [TS]

◼   ► where the presence it turns out all as [TS]

◼   ► careful as they sort of were being they [TS]

◼   ► ruin this society because they the the [TS]

◼   ► room and begin to plant gardens and then [TS]

◼   ► they have an overpopulation and that [TS]

◼   ► means the general artist and out squads [TS]

◼   ► to kill them and there's a moment where [TS]

◼   ► one of the human says there are more of [TS]

◼   ► of of us than there are of you and [TS]

◼   ► that's like oh no because the entire [TS]

◼   ► power power structure is based on the [TS]

◼   ► fact that these predators I have to have [TS]

◼   ► put the fear in the prey [TS]

◼   ► yeah and and the room to start chanting [TS]

◼   ► that writes when the gentleman's this [TS]

◼   ► squad is there and the gentle kind of [TS]

◼   ► freaked out it just said ok we're going [TS]

◼   ► to kill you all [TS]

◼   ► there's the first massacre yeah yeah [TS]

◼   ► starts the Civil which its powerful [TS]

◼   ► right because it is that moment of like [TS]

◼   ► this is actually being held in balance [TS]

◼   ► by this consensual hallucination that [TS]

◼   ► the predators and prey who have evolved [TS]

◼   ► together in the society has evolved [TS]

◼   ► together are in these roles and these [TS]

◼   ► people from another planet come in and [TS]

◼   ► say hey you realize there's way more of [TS]

◼   ► you than them you could take them and [TS]

◼   ► it's like home [TS]

◼   ► well yeah okay that's it forget it like [TS]

◼   ► they totally screw up this society and I [TS]

◼   ► really appreciated that there could have [TS]

◼   ► been more of that too I feel like if she [TS]

◼   ► had taken those last two chapters and [TS]

◼   ► just let them go at the pace of the rest [TS]

◼   ► of the book it would have been a perfect [TS]

◼   ► book for my taste but instead it's sort [TS]

◼   ► of like somebody was given to the [TS]

◼   ► wrap-up sign maybe her agent maybe her [TS]

◼   ► publisher was like you need to turn in [TS]

◼   ► the manuscript right and I don't know [TS]

◼   ► it's it's it's dramatic but I love a lot [TS]

◼   ► about this book i was happy to read it [TS]

◼   ► the characters are indelible the the the [TS]