316: Just Add Jesuits!
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come see the Cassidy and comfortable and
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many other podcasts at the now hear this
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festival in anaheim california October
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28 through 30th do now here is this best
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the in time purple known 316 September
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2016 welcome back everybody to be
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uncomfortable i'm your host Jason
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stellar here for another edition of our
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book club we're gonna be talking about i
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would say a classic book or at least a
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book that is not a current release it is
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a book from 1996 which means we are
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celebrating its 20th anniversary which
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kind of hard to believe the book that I
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really love when i read the first time
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and i re-read it for this podcast it's
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the sparrow a science fiction novel
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don't let anybody tell you otherwise a
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science fiction novel by Mary Doria
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wrestle joining me to talk about the
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sparrow are the following Erica and sign
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hello hello and shannon sudderth hello
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laughing keys and mr. book club himself
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hi guess who's coming multi hello
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so the sparrow some of us have read it
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before I believe Shannon and scott and i
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have read it before but that Erica it
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was new to you is that right i had never
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even heard of it
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well for you so in that new why did you
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agree to be on this podcast that's the
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thing i want to know i don't know and i
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saw i saw your your erica has been
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tweeting and posting our slack about the
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experience of reading this book to which
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i guess i would say thank you for
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showing up and for reading to the end
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mmm i got all the way through all the
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way through got to the end that America
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if you if you abide by the if you have
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nothing nice to say say nothing at all
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you're going to be very quiet very musky
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sure i'm not gonna be that quiet reading
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it again I realize all the reasons why i
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love this book and I also realized and I
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got to look out for all in detail all
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the things that i have a problem with
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about this book and that was good it was
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it was enjoyable to revisit it after i
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don't think i read in 1996 but I
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probably read it not too long after a
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year or two after so it's been almost 20
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years since i read this book the sparrow
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is the first novel by Mary Doria wrestle
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she has written many books since she is
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not really a science fiction writer
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although her first two books for science
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she's written a whole bunch of other
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stuff in a bunch of different different
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genres she definitely has a focus on
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she's got a lot of Catholicism happening
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a lot of her novels this book is about a
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first-contact situation
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it basically is the SETI program that
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they are Arecibo radio Observatory in
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Puerto Rico picks up radio broadcasts
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very much if you see the movie contact
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you get the idea what's going on here
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and then what happens next is that the
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Jesuits basically by an asteroid on the
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cheap and fly it to this tile for
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Centauri where they have picked up these
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signals in order to make a first contact
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with the aliens there and they arrive
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before anyone else and our main
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characters are the members of that crew
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the story is told in two different time
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lines in 2020 or thereabouts-- 2015 to
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2020 when they are headed out they
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discovered the signal and they're headed
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out to Alpha Centauri and in 2060 in the
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aftermath of the mission when the sole
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survivor of the mission and we don't
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really know quite what that means when
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this starts the the kind of disgraced
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sole survivor has returned to Earth and
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as being interrogated by the leader of
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the Jesuits about this terrible mission
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that has happened that has almost ruined
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the society of jesus and and so it's a
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very interesting premise for a novel and
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their yes there are a lot of aliens and
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stuff in it too which is why despite the
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fact that some people said well it's not
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really science fiction at the time she
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was going to be 17
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yeah because literary aspirations
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science fiction doesn't grapple with
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large issues of faith and and society
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and thinks he actually it does it is
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science fiction and it's got aliens in
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so that's that's the sparrow it is it is
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at its core story about about Emilio
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sandoz a Jesuit priest who is the only
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survivor and how he got on this mission
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to go to this of this planet and meet
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these aliens and what happened and what
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happened when he got back home
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so that's a yes that's the sparrow it's
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got a lot of interesting issues about
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about faith about society about how we
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interpret them the meaning of life about
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other other people and other beings and
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there's a whole lot here
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so I don't know maybe we should start
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with some initial impressions about this
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book i'm gonna i'm gonna hold off in
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America because she just read it and i'm
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going to start with sort of like how
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this book lived in your memory and and
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your experience of rereading it so
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Shannon how about you and you you read
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this a while ago and then reread it for
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this podcast is that right
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that is right i went through a period in
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the early audis of trying to make myself
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read more science fiction and less
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fantasy because i'm @hardwick fantasy
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girl but we were I was the literary
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chair for a local khan and our guest was
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vernor vinge Eve and I had never read
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anything by him so I made myself read
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one of his more recent books before
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meeting him and working with him on the
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con and i decided i really need to fix
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this and kept going and looking for
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various things and the sparrow happened
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to be one of them i'm not sure but now i
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don't remember exactly what it was
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whether it was word of mouth from
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friends or just seeing it on a shelf
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something of that maybe say you know I
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wonder what this is like
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but in that period of reading syfy this
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is honestly only one of two pieces the
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other one being the red mars trilogy by
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Kim Stanley Robinson that I remember
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reading and at the time truly being
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blown away by on because it had this
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combination of explaining the science in
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a way that 1i could understand but to
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did not feel spelled out or dumped down
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and number two as you said dealing with
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these huge philosophical spiritual
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forces of nature you know all these
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different things anthropological things
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dealing with them in intricate ways
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without pulling punches and three the
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thing that struck me most of all was the
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characters this this band of people that
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were pulled together to uh to go on this
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trip just totally grabbed me their
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interactions their dialogue of Russell I
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think has a at least in this book a
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sense of character and is able to bring
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them out and make them live off the page
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in a way I wasn't seeing another science
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fiction books which is of course why
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some people choose to call it not
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science fiction but as you said it
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it's classic science fiction i think i
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think the interviewing 20 years famous
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library and Nancy Pearl has I don't know
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if she's officially recant your
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statement about the sparrow but she has
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come out as a proponent of science
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fiction it seems like she's backed off
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on her original review of the Spirit
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which is that it was too good to be
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science fiction which is shameful but
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that was 20 years ago and people can
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grow and change Scott what's your memory
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of the sparrow and and when did you read
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it and what do you think at the time
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well i believe i read it when it first
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came out and it hit me for a number of
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reasons AI think it's just a fantastic
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book but i also was raised Roman
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Catholic so it had that layer and i also
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went to a Jesuit High School so I was
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very familiar with the society of jesus
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and Jesuits in general and in fact it is
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the Jets who I have to thank for making
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me an atheist because whatever that is
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something something everyone is they
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teach you critical thinking and
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throughout my four years of high school
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and when i first went to high school I
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was pretty sure I was going to become a
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priest and by the time I left high
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school I was pretty sure that there was
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no God so all right
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it was my legs Jesuits Thank You Jesuits
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it was because of the Jesuits they
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taught me critical thinking and I was
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telling this story to one of my
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co-workers the other day and she said
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well the gesture was actually might not
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be so upset about that because they
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would be happy that you at least applied
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critical thinking through the process
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and i said well i think they still can't
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believe in god that's kind of one of
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their central today out soho even happy
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maybe someone has been going to the
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alcohol but so the stars align in this
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book because a it the biggest thing is
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dealing with his faith right and how
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your you how you deal with it how you
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you know there are many priests in this
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book and they all have different ways of
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expressing their faith
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and I enjoy that many of them you know
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you always hear the story of how you
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know God speaks to you and then you take
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up a vocation and certainly that happens
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but the characters in this book was
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basically say well i'm not insane i
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don't hear voices i am just not this the
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way I express my faith is through my
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actions and that's how I you know honor
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god I've never actually talked to God
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but you know with the main character
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goes through a journey where he kind of
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you know he believes in god please never
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had a bad experience with God and then
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he kind of he thinks he does right and
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it sends him off to this and then of
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course the end it may not turn out so
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well for him but yeah that that's one of
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the challenges that Santos basis is he
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he feels finally that he's had his
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moment of understanding of what His
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purposes and what God wants him to do
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and terrible things happen after that's
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a boot the thing i didn't remember i
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remember one central terrible thing that
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happens to him or to actually but I
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didn't remember all of the terrible
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things that happen through so as i was
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reading it as like this gracious me a
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lot of bad things happened to this man
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and everyone who goes to the planet
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uh-huh and it just also reinforce the
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idea in that I like novels in which the
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main character suffer literally which
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which I don't tend to like I said you
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know my my memory of the book was that
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you know that it was powerful that it
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was you know I i grabbed onto it because
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it was science science fiction yes you
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know but I could hold up a
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science-fiction book to all my friends
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and say this is worth reading arm but
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you like Scott I did had general
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generalities of things that had happened
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I had I'd somewhat forgotten the dual
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timelines structure that it was there
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all the way through and not just like at
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the beginning and towards the end and it
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took me a while to get back into reading
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this because as things started
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developing I'm just like oh yeah I
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but it when they hit to the point that
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you described where um where a jimmy
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Quinn discovers the music that there is
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an actual comprehensible message in what
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he thought was just some random blip
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from SETI and things start getting
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together of the people started all the
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different characters start interacting
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they start you know what essentially
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it's like you know yeah let's let's all
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be in a band together to build a
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►
spaceship there is a bit goofy how they
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do it but the enthusiasm that got me
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back into it which made remembering some
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of the things that happen along the way
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even harder and I'd forgotten just how
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powerful those last scenes are when the
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final revelations happen
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let's go to Erica erica your newbie you
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read this is the first time I don't
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think you know what you're getting into
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►
before we go into some specifics here i
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would like to hear your overview of your
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of your experience with this book
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well I did going completely cold i offer
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it's so rare that I get to go into a
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movie or a book or anything without
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►
knowing anything about it so I'm always
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excited when that happens I can just go
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into something completely cold and i
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think this is one of those times where
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►
complete it just backfired because had I
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►
known what this book was about going in
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i would have realized that this is a
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►
book that is like in capital letters not
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►
for Erica ah for yeah I have a you know
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up maybe I'm like the opposite of Scott
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here my my personal relationship with
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►
the with church stuff is is is
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►
complicated in such a way that it very
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►
much turns me off anytime that it isn't
[TS]
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►
so while I will when I will agree with
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◼
►
with all of the non emotional reactions
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you guys had to this book it is very
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►
well written it is very well crafted
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►
this is a good book capital g capital be
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►
good book but it is just so not the kind
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►
of thing that I enjoy that I i don't
[TS]
◼
►
know why i kept pushing through it with
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►
this infinite this had been an episode 4
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►
of like award reading or or even when
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we're we're doing two or three books or
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►
something like that I probably would
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have just stopped reading and
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and not finished it and that now that i
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have gotten all the way to the end of
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►
the book I i think that that would have
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►
for me I can't argue with any of the
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►
stuff that you guys have have said about
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◼
►
its its quality it just yes it is it is
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►
very philosophical and that is so not my
[TS]
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►
kind of another kind of thing
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►
yeah and I think that's one of the keys
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◼
►
in that it delves into all these issues
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◼
►
of spirituality and you know like you
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►
Erica I'm not got you an agnostic the
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◼
►
fairest thing to say as far as my
[TS]
◼
►
spirituality but this particular book at
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◼
►
least not once do i as the reader feel
[TS]
◼
►
like I'm being preached at and I think
[TS]
◼
►
that is a marvelous marvelous thing that
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◼
►
Russell manages to do to make this book
[TS]
◼
►
a huge search thru spirituality how
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►
people arrive at their spirituality what
[TS]
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►
happens when their spirituality seems to
[TS]
◼
►
fail them and yet I as a reader not once
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◼
►
felt like I was being told you should
[TS]
◼
►
believe anything
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◼
►
yes I i should point out that that is
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►
absolutely not you know that that's not
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◼
►
my complaint I i agree with that she did
[TS]
◼
►
a wonderful job of sort of walking that
[TS]
◼
►
line of I mean you guys mentioned her
[TS]
◼
►
characters and and you're right these
[TS]
◼
►
are very well realized characters they
[TS]
◼
►
all have inner lives two to one degree
[TS]
◼
►
or another so I felt like I knew who
[TS]
◼
►
these people were so the the examination
[TS]
◼
►
of the spirituality is very much carried
[TS]
◼
►
out from the perspective of each one of
[TS]
◼
►
these characters and I did not feel like
[TS]
◼
►
there was a view that I was supposed to
[TS]
◼
►
be associating with more than any of the
[TS]
◼
►
rest so that was that was a very nice
[TS]
◼
►
thing it didn't make any more
[TS]
◼
►
comfortable for me reading it but at
[TS]
◼
►
least I didn't feel like I was being
[TS]
◼
►
preached to you know one of things then
[TS]
◼
►
forgive me for this guy because i'm
[TS]
◼
►
going to hear a little bit away from
[TS]
◼
►
Star Trek here but as we have to host of
[TS]
◼
►
the audio guide about 15 hear that one
[TS]
◼
►
of the things always appreciate about
[TS]
◼
►
the TV show Babylon 5 was similarly the
[TS]
◼
►
fact that it took religion seriously and
[TS]
◼
►
that was a show written by an atheist
[TS]
◼
►
but the fact was that he felt like you
[TS]
◼
►
in the future in a few hundred years
[TS]
◼
►
we're gonna suddenly not have religion
[TS]
◼
►
that's been with us for thousands of
[TS]
◼
►
years probably going to be important to
[TS]
◼
►
humanity for a very very long time if
[TS]
◼
►
the existence of humanity so
[TS]
◼
►
I mention that because as somebody who
[TS]
◼
►
is not a believer in pretty much
[TS]
◼
►
anything that's me i love seeing
[TS]
◼
►
portrayals of people struggling with
[TS]
◼
►
their faith and wondering about the
[TS]
◼
►
nature of God and in a science fictional
[TS]
◼
►
can't context I i think it's great
[TS]
◼
►
because i do think this is one of these
[TS]
◼
►
fundamental things about being a human
[TS]
◼
►
being and that's one of the reasons that
[TS]
◼
►
i actually really like this book is even
[TS]
◼
►
as and not a particularly religious
[TS]
◼
►
person I recognize the importance of
[TS]
◼
►
spirituality in a search for meaning in
[TS]
◼
►
people and and these characters are all
[TS]
◼
►
experiencing it and they're all
[TS]
◼
►
experiencing it from different areas
[TS]
◼
►
which is fascinating to me the fact that
[TS]
◼
►
you've got our main character is a
[TS]
◼
►
priest who basically has never kind of
[TS]
◼
►
never believed in god and feels really
[TS]
◼
►
bad about that which is fascinating to
[TS]
◼
►
me and and the idea that he has this
[TS]
◼
►
moment of clarity and feels that he
[TS]
◼
►
finally has his meeting and then things
[TS]
◼
►
go horribly wrong on this planet I mean
[TS]
◼
►
that the the the the title of the book
[TS]
◼
►
the sparrow is very specifically from a
[TS]
◼
►
passage in the Bible about how even when
[TS]
◼
►
a single sparrow falls dead God is aware
[TS]
◼
►
of it that the idea here that bad things
[TS]
◼
►
happen in the world to and God is aware
[TS]
◼
►
of that too well that I guess Amelia
[TS]
◼
►
sent this is the sparrow kind of e a
[TS]
◼
►
terrible things happen to him
[TS]
◼
►
I so so I I that aspect of it is
[TS]
◼
►
fascinating to be also i am a sucker for
[TS]
◼
►
first contact stories and this has that
[TS]
◼
►
it isn't you know like we said with the
[TS]
◼
►
station eleven episode the you know
[TS]
◼
►
still bear with me on this one Scott
[TS]
◼
►
station level was a book that a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
people didn't like because on our book
[TS]
◼
►
club because it is not very good at
[TS]
◼
►
science fiction showing an apocalypse
[TS]
◼
►
here i would say the sparrow similarly
[TS]
◼
►
if you're somebody good is going to get
[TS]
◼
►
caught up in the science of this you
[TS]
◼
►
know there's a lot of hand waving that
[TS]
◼
►
goes on about how they get to another to
[TS]
◼
►
another solar system right like that
[TS]
◼
►
they don't describe oh we invented a
[TS]
◼
►
drive that will take us there at half
[TS]
◼
►
speed of light or where they just kinda
[TS]
◼
►
she can you wave your hands and it's
[TS]
◼
►
fine that's not her strong suit no it's
[TS]
◼
►
not the Anthropology side
[TS]
◼
►
anthropologie side is her strong suit
[TS]
◼
►
and that shines through you have to
[TS]
◼
►
squint at the science you have to end
[TS]
◼
►
and for me it's okay because because the
[TS]
◼
►
culture when it was she when they get to
[TS]
◼
►
the planet red-hot it is it is so
[TS]
◼
►
interesting that it's fine and it's also
[TS]
◼
►
I my point is like with a station eleven
[TS]
◼
►
the details aren't the point here it's
[TS]
◼
►
actually more kind of like the end
[TS]
◼
►
result this is allegorical for the
[TS]
◼
►
presence of the Jesuits in the new world
[TS]
◼
►
essentially this is what would be a new
[TS]
◼
►
new world for the Jesuits to have to
[TS]
◼
►
have a first contact with and so it's a
[TS]
◼
►
it's an alien planet instead and that's
[TS]
◼
►
what she's really trying to do here in
[TS]
◼
►
fact i'm kind of impressed that she
[TS]
◼
►
tries as hard as she does to make a kind
[TS]
◼
►
of hold together in terms of the science
[TS]
◼
►
right because she could have completely
[TS]
◼
►
just punted and been like and then they
[TS]
◼
►
were on the other planet and instead she
[TS]
◼
►
tries to go through recibo and getting
[TS]
◼
►
the signals and all of that in the end
[TS]
◼
►
its and it's very exciting and I I
[TS]
◼
►
appreciate that because in the end
[TS]
◼
►
yes is it kind of ridiculous that six
[TS]
◼
►
people who were all together in Puerto
[TS]
◼
►
Rico when the signal was made are part
[TS]
◼
►
of a nine person or a person crew that
[TS]
◼
►
is the first prefers people to go to an
[TS]
◼
►
alien planet where where where alien
[TS]
◼
►
life has been discovered for the first
[TS]
◼
►
time before any governments or Space
[TS]
◼
►
Agency's seems kind of ridiculous to me
[TS]
◼
►
but you know what that's the story she
[TS]
◼
►
wants to tell and we kind of go with it
[TS]
◼
►
and I I mean I didn't it is ridiculous
[TS]
◼
►
but i did also kind of buy into it a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit because the the church
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't have this you know the rules and
[TS]
◼
►
regulations that i would imagine the
[TS]
◼
►
government would have to follow so they
[TS]
◼
►
can sounds like okay let's buy an
[TS]
◼
►
asteroid and let's go and that's what
[TS]
◼
►
they do and you know he convinces them
[TS]
◼
►
that we we should do this we have you
[TS]
◼
►
know priceless artwork that we can sell
[TS]
◼
►
on the download and get us a suite
[TS]
◼
►
asteroid and we can go off and you know
[TS]
◼
►
we happen to have the people we need to
[TS]
◼
►
make this a reality add a couple more
[TS]
◼
►
priests and add a couple priest instant
[TS]
◼
►
to just add Jesuits
[TS]
◼
►
yep the spirituality aspect of it is is
[TS]
◼
►
the biggest thing that turned me off
[TS]
◼
►
about it but I think even if somehow
[TS]
◼
►
this book were able to exist without
[TS]
◼
►
that which certainly I long as possible
[TS]
◼
►
but even if I had I still don't think
[TS]
◼
►
that it would have been something that
[TS]
◼
►
truly appealed to me because unlike
[TS]
◼
►
scott once again I am NOT a person who
[TS]
◼
►
really digs it when the the main
[TS]
◼
►
characters in books suffer a lot like I
[TS]
◼
►
don't mind some of it because you know
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes you need that for a good story
[TS]
◼
►
but I mean there's there's so few hours
[TS]
◼
►
in the day that I get to read that I
[TS]
◼
►
tend to like my escapism to be a little
[TS]
◼
►
bit more escapee and and have something
[TS]
◼
►
a little little bit lighter to to deal
[TS]
◼
►
with and also the man to sort of
[TS]
◼
►
back-and-forth flipping is is a thing
[TS]
◼
►
that sometimes i like and sometimes I
[TS]
◼
►
don't in this case it you find out at
[TS]
◼
►
the very very very beginning that
[TS]
◼
►
everything goes horribly wrong and it's
[TS]
◼
►
just it's a journey of discovery to find
[TS]
◼
►
out how things went wrong so that just
[TS]
◼
►
had me kind of you know the clenched
[TS]
◼
►
heart all the way through like what is
[TS]
◼
►
going to happen I know something is
[TS]
◼
►
going to be awful and I like i would i
[TS]
◼
►
would rather know hit the outset that
[TS]
◼
►
it's gonna end very badly then have it
[TS]
◼
►
seemed like everything's gonna be fine
[TS]
◼
►
and then it ends terribly so I guess
[TS]
◼
►
this is this is a little bit better than
[TS]
◼
►
that but but still i just spent the
[TS]
◼
►
whole thing with a feeling of great
[TS]
◼
►
dread yeah I was kind of surprised that
[TS]
◼
►
i managed to sort of lose that dread
[TS]
◼
►
somewhat once the the 2019 once the
[TS]
◼
►
current day quote unquote a timeline
[TS]
◼
►
started kicking together I was kind of
[TS]
◼
►
surprised that I think the characters
[TS]
◼
►
you know we're strong enough and having
[TS]
◼
►
so much fun with each other that it that
[TS]
◼
►
drew me back in on just like it did the
[TS]
◼
►
first time I mean you know that i've
[TS]
◼
►
read when i read this book the first
[TS]
◼
►
time like you said it tells you right at
[TS]
◼
►
the beginning things really went
[TS]
◼
►
downhill and yet the first time around i
[TS]
◼
►
managed to forget a lot of that until
[TS]
◼
►
the last third of the book when it
[TS]
◼
►
started really going downhill and
[TS]
◼
►
gathering speed on and it almost
[TS]
◼
►
happened to me again
[TS]
◼
►
Yesi whereas i was just i felt like it
[TS]
◼
►
was such work reading this book that I
[TS]
◼
►
got toward the end and you know that
[TS]
◼
►
some things that have
[TS]
◼
►
and some things hadn't happened yet and
[TS]
◼
►
i was just finding myself going ok I've
[TS]
◼
►
actually you know I've learned to maybe
[TS]
◼
►
not like so much but at least appreciate
[TS]
◼
►
some of these characters because they
[TS]
◼
►
were very well written but I literally
[TS]
◼
►
found myself thinking oh my god just die
[TS]
◼
►
already look like regular people like I
[TS]
◼
►
like you but I know something Bad's
[TS]
◼
►
gonna happen to you so can we please
[TS]
◼
►
just get it over with
[TS]
◼
►
just and I did I think the structure to
[TS]
◼
►
your point Erica makes it all the more
[TS]
◼
►
worse because you know at the beginning
[TS]
◼
►
that you first meet sandoz and he's a
[TS]
◼
►
broken character and then you flipped
[TS]
◼
►
back to the past and he's like this
[TS]
◼
►
bubbly guy that everybody likes it he's
[TS]
◼
►
making jokes is helping everybody at you
[TS]
◼
►
just like oh now i'm just gonna watch
[TS]
◼
►
this person basically have the worst
[TS]
◼
►
several years of his life and then come
[TS]
◼
►
back and continue to downward trend so
[TS]
◼
►
it's not not gonna be a great pleasure
[TS]
◼
►
ride this episode of the incomparable is
[TS]
◼
►
brought to you by Casper asleep brand
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that created one perfect mattress sold
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design and it's delivered in a small box
[TS]
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so small that you will say how did they
[TS]
◼
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do that the answer is vacuum technology
[TS]
◼
►
I think something like that involves
[TS]
◼
►
sucking all the air out and it fits in a
[TS]
◼
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box and then you open it and push it
[TS]
◼
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to that that mattress though that
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Casper's famous for
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they also offer an adaptive pillow which
[TS]
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I have as well and soft breathable
[TS]
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sheets I've got those two boy
[TS]
◼
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yeah it's all good stuff it really is an
[TS]
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in-house team of engineers a Casper
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mattress it's got spring latex and
[TS]
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you've got yourself while these casper
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sound good but you know what I don't
[TS]
◼
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want to buy a mattress on the internet
[TS]
◼
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that would be crazy
[TS]
◼
►
don't worry about it Casper has free
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delivery and free returns with a hundred
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knight home trouble sleeping for three
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you don't like it like Casper know they
[TS]
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so obsessively Matt engineering mattress
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shockingly fair price a great feel free
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take it away and you have lost nothing
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made in America it is Casper it is a
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so I'm gonna free everybody here I mean
[TS]
◼
►
you shouldn't be listening if you have
[TS]
◼
►
read the book but if you have are still
[TS]
◼
►
listening we're gonna fire off a cry
[TS]
◼
►
sort of a friendly spoiler horn right
[TS]
◼
►
there just to make it clear before we go
[TS]
◼
►
even deeper down in to the sparrow and
[TS]
◼
►
if you like what you've heard from me
[TS]
◼
►
and Shannon and Scott maybe you should
[TS]
◼
►
read it and if you like what you heard
[TS]
◼
►
America don't really hear
[TS]
◼
►
it's beautiful music I feel like some of
[TS]
◼
►
these episodes the spoiler horn is
[TS]
◼
►
implied for the whole thing because why
[TS]
◼
►
but yes I feel like we haven't like dug
[TS]
◼
►
down into some of the worst of it which
[TS]
◼
►
I'm gonna do right now because I mean
[TS]
◼
►
when we talk about the two time frames
[TS]
◼
►
right um i think it's interesting that
[TS]
◼
►
that you could argue that this is trying
[TS]
◼
►
to cushion the blow a little bit but of
[TS]
◼
►
course i think also it's the structure
[TS]
◼
►
is that she kind of wants the descent
[TS]
◼
►
into darkness and the kind of like an
[TS]
◼
►
ascent into finding a reason to live
[TS]
◼
►
happen in parallel I mean I think that's
[TS]
◼
►
what she's trying to do here it does
[TS]
◼
►
give you the descent from the beginning
[TS]
◼
►
when you're watching all these people
[TS]
◼
►
who are very excited about this
[TS]
◼
►
first-contact situation and going to
[TS]
◼
►
you already know that something horrible
[TS]
◼
►
is going to happen and so that color's
[TS]
◼
►
your judgment of it which it's it's an
[TS]
◼
►
interesting choice I gotta say from the
[TS]
◼
►
perspective of 20 years later one of the
[TS]
◼
►
things about this book that did not
[TS]
◼
►
impress me at all is one of the conceits
[TS]
◼
►
here is that sandoz is returned by this
[TS]
◼
►
second the second mission 2 rakaat he is
[TS]
◼
►
he is found in a dungeon
[TS]
◼
►
this is what happens he's found in a
[TS]
◼
►
dungeon as the sex slave of an alien and
[TS]
◼
►
they in all of his other and he and he
[TS]
◼
►
seen killing an alien as they find him
[TS]
◼
►
and then they put him on his asteroid
[TS]
◼
►
ship and send it back to earth and radio
[TS]
◼
►
back so it reaches them much before the
[TS]
◼
►
the ship does that about this terrible
[TS]
◼
►
you know state that they found him in
[TS]
◼
►
and from the perspective of 2016 reading
[TS]
◼
►
this I could not buy for a moment that
[TS]
◼
►
the discovery of him
[TS]
◼
►
everybody refers to him in the in the
[TS]
◼
►
present timeline when he's this
[TS]
◼
►
disgraced and disfigured because he said
[TS]
◼
►
this horrible operation down his hands
[TS]
◼
►
by these aliens as a prostitute and they
[TS]
◼
►
everybody just assumes like okay first
[TS]
◼
►
off let's let's break this down
[TS]
◼
►
first off that he was a prostitute when
[TS]
◼
►
they find him in a sex dungeon being a
[TS]
◼
►
you know for for these aliens literally
[TS]
◼
►
naked and bloody yeah nobody thinks one
[TS]
◼
►
nobody thinks that perhaps another
[TS]
◼
►
possibility was that he
[TS]
◼
►
was forced into this and to when they
[TS]
◼
►
call him a prostitute they assume it
[TS]
◼
►
means that he was a willing and joyous
[TS]
◼
►
prostitute which is also i think not
[TS]
◼
►
something that you should assume and so
[TS]
◼
►
it in reading this it this time I was
[TS]
◼
►
like I i didn't i didn't buy that whole
[TS]
◼
►
part of it makes everybody on earth
[TS]
◼
►
essentially in the end in a later time
[TS]
◼
►
frame seemed kinda like a dummy that
[TS]
◼
►
because she wants this revelatory moment
[TS]
◼
►
when he says no i wasn't doing that
[TS]
◼
►
because I enjoyed being raped by aliens
[TS]
◼
►
it was raped and and they're like what
[TS]
◼
►
it was rape I had no idea it's like yeah
[TS]
◼
►
you should've picked that up like when
[TS]
◼
►
they radioed it back you should have
[TS]
◼
►
figured that out
[TS]
◼
►
mmm yes yeah that was that was my other
[TS]
◼
►
big problem which I didn't know if we
[TS]
◼
►
were in spoiler horn territory so I
[TS]
◼
►
couldn't say that made me actually angry
[TS]
◼
►
at this book because it's just I mean
[TS]
◼
►
really the where we start out is in the
[TS]
◼
►
the 2060 sort of present day and the
[TS]
◼
►
whole framework of this book is based on
[TS]
◼
►
the slow kind of on unveiling of what
[TS]
◼
►
this character has gone through and and
[TS]
◼
►
why he's he's so shamed and and and this
[TS]
◼
►
is it I mean it just it nerf the rest of
[TS]
◼
►
the Baltimore me to a really large
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and I didn't feel that way 20 years
[TS]
◼
►
ago but I I'm more aware of stuff like
[TS]
◼
►
that now where I and and knowing what
[TS]
◼
►
happens in the book and now i'm judging
[TS]
◼
►
it on the reread based on what I already
[TS]
◼
►
know what's going to happen i thought
[TS]
◼
►
it's completely impossible to me that
[TS]
◼
►
nobody would think that at any point I
[TS]
◼
►
mean yeah I grant that there was a radio
[TS]
◼
►
report from some people who had a skewed
[TS]
◼
►
view of it and then he's silent because
[TS]
◼
►
he's just kind of like coming back and
[TS]
◼
►
he's completely comatose essentially and
[TS]
◼
►
he won't talk to people so they don't
[TS]
◼
►
know his part that nobody in the 20
[TS]
◼
►
intervening years has not considered as
[TS]
◼
►
a serious possibility that he is the
[TS]
◼
►
victim of a horrible crime and yet i
[TS]
◼
►
think because Russell wants us to have
[TS]
◼
►
that revelatory moment and I was
[TS]
◼
►
thinking as I was reading like you know
[TS]
◼
►
the way to tell this story is probably
[TS]
◼
►
to have him just be found in prison and
[TS]
◼
►
have them not understand
[TS]
◼
►
just how awful his conditions were and
[TS]
◼
►
then at the end of the book him having
[TS]
◼
►
realized no actually they kept me
[TS]
◼
►
frizzled those last 10 months that i was
[TS]
◼
►
on that planet as a sex slave and raped
[TS]
◼
►
me repeatedly and have everybody be
[TS]
◼
►
horrified when he admits that this is
[TS]
◼
►
part this terrible thing that happened
[TS]
◼
►
to him but instead everybody knows and
[TS]
◼
►
they assume it's his fault and there and
[TS]
◼
►
they're blaming the victim because he
[TS]
◼
►
he was wearing a jeweled collar don't
[TS]
◼
►
you know I'm part of it is that um I
[TS]
◼
►
think in this is a Russell doing some
[TS]
◼
►
criticism possibly of how quick human
[TS]
◼
►
how quick it is in human nature is to
[TS]
◼
►
look for the scapegoat we don't get a
[TS]
◼
►
huge amount of detail but the fact that
[TS]
◼
►
the the Jesuits you know since this was
[TS]
◼
►
a private enterprise essentially just
[TS]
◼
►
sort of you know snuck you know their
[TS]
◼
►
team often into the asteroid before the
[TS]
◼
►
United Nations or anybody else was even
[TS]
◼
►
aware that somebody was actually going
[TS]
◼
►
to try that the arm try to contact this
[TS]
◼
►
planet a lot of people it was public
[TS]
◼
►
that the contact has been made but um
[TS]
◼
►
but no nobody official no government
[TS]
◼
►
tried to do anything about it as quickly
[TS]
◼
►
as the Jesuits did on and then for it to
[TS]
◼
►
go so completely pear-shaped and buried
[TS]
◼
►
all the transmissions right so it is
[TS]
◼
►
nobody knows that's been a media
[TS]
◼
►
blackout the scandal as a result when
[TS]
◼
►
the UN committee when the UN
[TS]
◼
►
representatives are as part of the
[TS]
◼
►
second group get there you know they yes
[TS]
◼
►
they jump to the wrong conclusion
[TS]
◼
►
extremely stupidly arm but they are also
[TS]
◼
►
looking at the entire rest of the crew
[TS]
◼
►
is dead and the planet that they came to
[TS]
◼
►
visit which apparently when they arrived
[TS]
◼
►
was in this nice peaceful planet and
[TS]
◼
►
everything's hunky-dory is now going
[TS]
◼
►
through a civil war you know then that
[TS]
◼
►
and the UN is either looking they're all
[TS]
◼
►
looking for somebody to blame at the
[TS]
◼
►
sandoz is the only one to blame so
[TS]
◼
►
they've got this tunnel vision and jump
[TS]
◼
►
and like jumping to conclusions i agree
[TS]
◼
►
if this book was written today I don't
[TS]
◼
►
think Russell would have had every
[TS]
◼
►
single character more or less believing
[TS]
◼
►
the original story somebody would have
[TS]
◼
►
didn't but this was 1996 and gender
[TS]
◼
►
issues and so forth have advanced since
[TS]
◼
►
then also and in the books defense guess
[TS]
◼
►
I didn't say that i do think that it
[TS]
◼
►
took so long for him in first time for
[TS]
◼
►
him to travel back and the only
[TS]
◼
►
information that they had you know why
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't they trust the word of these un
[TS]
◼
►
advisor people because they probably
[TS]
◼
►
didn't give super great details about
[TS]
◼
►
the fact that he was naked and dirty and
[TS]
◼
►
bloody and you know it
[TS]
◼
►
non-responsive physically after they
[TS]
◼
►
after they release him
[TS]
◼
►
yeah the first thing they saw him do
[TS]
◼
►
when they go into that cell of the alien
[TS]
◼
►
girl who as a very young child
[TS]
◼
►
sandoz had managed to make first contact
[TS]
◼
►
whether his talent is linguistics and
[TS]
◼
►
he's able to soak in and create and
[TS]
◼
►
figure out languages very quickly on so
[TS]
◼
►
the idea that this was a an alien that
[TS]
◼
►
knew who he was and it sounded like that
[TS]
◼
►
they were supposed to be at least
[TS]
◼
►
friendly but sandoz attacks the second
[TS]
◼
►
the seller's opened we learn that he
[TS]
◼
►
sort of psych himself up into I'm going
[TS]
◼
►
to end this one way or the other I'm
[TS]
◼
►
getting out or I'm dying and it's just
[TS]
◼
►
horrible bad luck that the first person
[TS]
◼
►
through the door is this young alien
[TS]
◼
►
girl and the first thing those you when
[TS]
◼
►
people see is him run into her smack or
[TS]
◼
►
so hard into the wall that she breaks
[TS]
◼
►
her skull or her ribcage and kills her
[TS]
◼
►
rights and so is that so the the thing
[TS]
◼
►
is that these guys have basically grown
[TS]
◼
►
up live most of their lives knowing they
[TS]
◼
►
think what the deal is with this guy so
[TS]
◼
►
I mean it's it is a pretty ingrained
[TS]
◼
►
idea of what had happened to him so I
[TS]
◼
►
mean I still don't completely by it but
[TS]
◼
►
at least at least you know if they they
[TS]
◼
►
had an awful long time to have believed
[TS]
◼
►
this thing so that that meeting this
[TS]
◼
►
weird guy is probably not going to
[TS]
◼
►
completely jar that out of their minds
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I yeah I just feel like from the
[TS]
◼
►
perspective of 20 years later I'm like
[TS]
◼
►
oh it's it could have been tweaked a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit and been much more kind of
[TS]
◼
►
believable to me then that it actually
[TS]
◼
►
let's say I mean we should let's talk
[TS]
◼
►
there's so much here I the characters
[TS]
◼
►
are really interesting we we we meet we
[TS]
◼
►
meet another another Jesuit who is we we
[TS]
◼
►
find out right before he dies it's very
[TS]
◼
►
much a i'm going to download all my
[TS]
◼
►
final information before I die
[TS]
◼
►
who is his mentor that he's actually a
[TS]
◼
►
gay priests and because and I think what
[TS]
◼
►
honestly one of the reasons that the the
[TS]
◼
►
rape is part of the story of Santos is
[TS]
◼
►
because she wants to us to think about
[TS]
◼
►
and we we do for the whole book think
[TS]
◼
►
about thousands of celibacy here because
[TS]
◼
►
of course and O's falls in love and
[TS]
◼
►
basically pushes the woman who falls in
[TS]
◼
►
love with away because he has you know
[TS]
◼
►
he he's now kind of high on his final
[TS]
◼
►
hit you know it's sudden contact with
[TS]
◼
►
what he believes is his destiny guided
[TS]
◼
►
by god I'm so that that's part of the
[TS]
◼
►
theme there but that's an interesting
[TS]
◼
►
character he's a Texan we've got the the
[TS]
◼
►
uh it's a Jewish artificial artificial
[TS]
◼
►
intelligence experts who makes her
[TS]
◼
►
living she's a vulture she makes her
[TS]
◼
►
living basically scripting people's
[TS]
◼
►
brains like into computer code so that
[TS]
◼
►
they can be a little jobs can be
[TS]
◼
►
eliminated but he falls in love with her
[TS]
◼
►
and I thought it was interesting that
[TS]
◼
►
the her character is a oh well not owned
[TS]
◼
►
but yeah surfing right for most of the
[TS]
◼
►
book in this guy who pays deals and
[TS]
◼
►
basically pietrzyk people futures right
[TS]
◼
►
he pays for he identifies a talented
[TS]
◼
►
poor children and put them through
[TS]
◼
►
school and you know identifies their
[TS]
◼
►
their talent and then they basically
[TS]
◼
►
have to work off all of the money he's
[TS]
◼
►
invested in them so they contract them
[TS]
◼
►
out and she is one of those people and I
[TS]
◼
►
just thought that was something that did
[TS]
◼
►
not seem that far-fetched to actually
[TS]
◼
►
happening now today his which made me
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that was a bit so the whole Sophia
[TS]
◼
►
mendez story is like a little like other
[TS]
◼
►
science-fiction novel that she could
[TS]
◼
►
have written because that that that the
[TS]
◼
►
idea there also you know she's
[TS]
◼
►
extrapolating 20 years ahead in her
[TS]
◼
►
future there is a
[TS]
◼
►
it's actually not too far off of what is
[TS]
◼
►
happened in Syria happens in this book
[TS]
◼
►
in turkey where there are right up there
[TS]
◼
►
terrorists and a war a civil war and you
[TS]
◼
►
end up with she's basically her parents
[TS]
◼
►
are killed and she is she is sold off
[TS]
◼
►
into prostitution first and then becomes
[TS]
◼
►
an indentured slave and a highly
[TS]
◼
►
educated professional at that point but
[TS]
◼
►
she still got the fact that she wears
[TS]
◼
►
this like bracelet that is her symbol of
[TS]
◼
►
being owned until she can pay off her
[TS]
◼
►
debt and it's a it's a whole interesting
[TS]
◼
►
idea that is kind of just tossed off as
[TS]
◼
►
a a side aspect of this plot but another
[TS]
◼
►
thing to felt like a whole very
[TS]
◼
►
interesting science fictional premise
[TS]
◼
►
what about the UH I mean that if anybody
[TS]
◼
►
have any other characters that they want
[TS]
◼
►
to talk about and we can we get we get
[TS]
◼
►
Jimmy Quinn who is your stock uh he's
[TS]
◼
►
just a big science nerd who discovers
[TS]
◼
►
aliens you know as you do you dig
[TS]
◼
►
literally like I'm feet 7 yeah he's the
[TS]
◼
►
777 and a half foot er um I like all the
[TS]
◼
►
aliens think so clearly he's your mother
[TS]
◼
►
and you should be carrying our house
[TS]
◼
►
install yeah i'll come back to that
[TS]
◼
►
later but yeah the fact that they're
[TS]
◼
►
judging each other's races the humans
[TS]
◼
►
and the the Runa is the first group of
[TS]
◼
►
aliens they meet on this planet and
[TS]
◼
►
they're judging gender by size and they
[TS]
◼
►
figure out much later just how scrambled
[TS]
◼
►
everything has gotten that apparently
[TS]
◼
►
you know Emilio's studies in the
[TS]
◼
►
language he made the same assumptions as
[TS]
◼
►
far as which gender is being declined
[TS]
◼
►
with which noun and finding out that yes
[TS]
◼
►
they all assume that big seven-foot-tall
[TS]
◼
►
Jimmy was the mom because he was the
[TS]
◼
►
biggest you know if it had been just
[TS]
◼
►
just sighs that was the gender thing i
[TS]
◼
►
would have I would have found it amusing
[TS]
◼
►
and interesting but no this is another
[TS]
◼
►
this is another sign that this book was
[TS]
◼
►
written 20 years ago because it was and
[TS]
◼
►
the anthropologist also makes note of
[TS]
◼
►
the fact that it wasn't just the size
[TS]
◼
►
but it was also the moral duties that
[TS]
◼
►
very happened and you know who is taking
[TS]
◼
►
care of the children and and being sort
[TS]
◼
►
of more maternal
[TS]
◼
►
that sort of thing and I when he was
[TS]
◼
►
going out of business in the bigger
[TS]
◼
►
world yeah that's true but it's not flip
[TS]
◼
►
with rona isn't that wasn't that the
[TS]
◼
►
point there is everybody's making gender
[TS]
◼
►
gender assumptions and it's the opposite
[TS]
◼
►
right but she was she was just saying
[TS]
◼
►
that that humans still have a certain
[TS]
◼
►
gender assumptions which is the thing
[TS]
◼
►
that was problematic for me at this at
[TS]
◼
►
this point it's 2020 now milan i did i
[TS]
◼
►
did laugh at the point where the book is
[TS]
◼
►
taking place in what is now our present
[TS]
◼
►
day and that was although although she
[TS]
◼
►
didn't get tablets right shit these
[TS]
◼
►
people are using tablets a lot like all
[TS]
◼
►
right that's pretty good
[TS]
◼
►
yep it's pretty good job and Jimmy
[TS]
◼
►
Jimmy's a home computer gets hacked into
[TS]
◼
►
by some teenagers that students write
[TS]
◼
►
something about that right yeah they're
[TS]
◼
►
so there's some some paper at one point
[TS]
◼
►
that I was like nope that's probably not
[TS]
◼
►
right but I thought you did okay with
[TS]
◼
►
that as far as characters i love the
[TS]
◼
►
Edwardses oh yeah I love the it's this
[TS]
◼
►
it's a couple that you know you would
[TS]
◼
►
not automatically assume to be the type
[TS]
◼
►
of people to go on this mission they are
[TS]
◼
►
in their sixties they essentially have
[TS]
◼
►
retired and are doing volunteer /
[TS]
◼
►
mission work in Puerto Rico that they're
[TS]
◼
►
a hoot and a half
[TS]
◼
►
just the way the conversations between
[TS]
◼
►
them the way that they quit back and
[TS]
◼
►
forth and with their friends is
[TS]
◼
►
delightful but the that these are not
[TS]
◼
►
your standard um hero's journey go off
[TS]
◼
►
and quest type two kinds of people which
[TS]
◼
►
i think is great i think yeah that was
[TS]
◼
►
one of the things I like to the best i
[TS]
◼
►
think and the most because you get to
[TS]
◼
►
see a lot of her inner life as compared
[TS]
◼
►
with George most of his inner life is is
[TS]
◼
►
shown through and over but i just-i I
[TS]
◼
►
liked her as a character i liked the way
[TS]
◼
►
that she reacted to other people and to
[TS]
◼
►
think she was thinking and I just you're
[TS]
◼
►
right that the hoot and a half thing I
[TS]
◼
►
wanted them to be my friends I want to
[TS]
◼
►
go i wanted to go to their house and how
[TS]
◼
►
many of them are these girls parties
[TS]
◼
►
because she just
[TS]
◼
►
yeah she sounded like the greatest host
[TS]
◼
►
in the world yeah it's a fun you know
[TS]
◼
►
these characters meet sandoz earlier on
[TS]
◼
►
and then he basically says you should
[TS]
◼
►
come to Puerto Rico and they're like
[TS]
◼
►
yeah let's do it and they're there are a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of fun and this is that's one of the
[TS]
◼
►
things about this that
[TS]
◼
►
about this like let's let's buy an
[TS]
◼
►
asteroid not tell anybody that I kind of
[TS]
◼
►
like is that you know when else are you
[TS]
◼
►
going to see a story about a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
friends deciding that they're gonna be
[TS]
◼
►
the ones to send a spaceship for a first
[TS]
◼
►
contact with aliens it's like that is
[TS]
◼
►
not gonna happen right and yet that is
[TS]
◼
►
the purpose of this tour including the
[TS]
◼
►
retired husband and wife who are the
[TS]
◼
►
last people that you would normally
[TS]
◼
►
expect to see in a first-contact space
[TS]
◼
►
mission but they go and of course which
[TS]
◼
►
is where you really need you really need
[TS]
◼
►
the God aspect of it there because that
[TS]
◼
►
does actually make it work without
[TS]
◼
►
feeling hand-wavy because you can just
[TS]
◼
►
be like okay you know
[TS]
◼
►
Yeah right right although the what's
[TS]
◼
►
interesting about the the couple is that
[TS]
◼
►
the the wife who's the doctor is um is a
[TS]
◼
►
basically completely lapsed Catholic and
[TS]
◼
►
although she may potentially change your
[TS]
◼
►
tune when they get to the alien planet
[TS]
◼
►
you know she's she's among a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
people who are believers she is not one
[TS]
◼
►
and it's a very interesting kind of kind
[TS]
◼
►
of combination that they have their it's
[TS]
◼
►
a good yeah those are really good
[TS]
◼
►
characters the dialogue is really good
[TS]
◼
►
with those characters I felt like a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of these characters really jump off the
[TS]
◼
►
page not only sandoz but the the couple
[TS]
◼
►
and Sophia mendez and the the Texan
[TS]
◼
►
priests to who is a mentor
[TS]
◼
►
these are all characters that this is
[TS]
◼
►
one of those books where i can actually
[TS]
◼
►
like I i start to cast people and staged
[TS]
◼
►
scenes and higher their voices talking
[TS]
◼
►
because the characters are so strong and
[TS]
◼
►
and memorable I let's talk about aliens
[TS]
◼
►
how about that no okay Scott you can
[TS]
◼
►
stick limes so we get direct we get 2
[TS]
◼
►
rakaat day they take a hollowed-out
[TS]
◼
►
remaining asteroid and they threw
[TS]
◼
►
magical undescribed of engine AI program
[TS]
◼
►
is slightly physics you can accelerate
[TS]
◼
►
and how they do that we don't know and
[TS]
◼
►
then they decelerate and then they get 2
[TS]
◼
►
rakaat and you know it it's fine and and
[TS]
◼
►
they meet it and i really like i said
[TS]
◼
►
i'm a sucker for first contact up i
[TS]
◼
►
really like first off they land kinda
[TS]
◼
►
like far away from everything and
[TS]
◼
►
they're just sort of like basking in the
[TS]
◼
►
you know in the in being off
[TS]
◼
►
the asteroid 41 and in this new
[TS]
◼
►
ecosystem of all alien stuff that they
[TS]
◼
►
don't know anything about and they have
[TS]
◼
►
to like eat little bit of food to see if
[TS]
◼
►
the current it's poisonous or not which
[TS]
◼
►
I kind of enjoyed all of that and and
[TS]
◼
►
they do all of that and somebody dies
[TS]
◼
►
actually which land they don't know why
[TS]
◼
►
which I also really kind of like that
[TS]
◼
►
this is when you're getting to the
[TS]
◼
►
Jesuits coming to the new world right
[TS]
◼
►
which is there are far from home that
[TS]
◼
►
their that they're not going to just
[TS]
◼
►
subsist on their rations they are trying
[TS]
◼
►
to figure this out some of the people
[TS]
◼
►
aren't going to make it and and there's
[TS]
◼
►
not gonna be a clear reason why and then
[TS]
◼
►
they finally meet the the aliens on this
[TS]
◼
►
planet or at least they think of the
[TS]
◼
►
aliens on this planet which are the Runa
[TS]
◼
►
I'm and they and they have this question
[TS]
◼
►
of like they get some stuff confused but
[TS]
◼
►
because Santos is there because he's a
[TS]
◼
►
brilliant translator and they they spend
[TS]
◼
►
some time trying to figure out who these
[TS]
◼
►
people are and and and how their culture
[TS]
◼
►
works and I loved all of this stuff and
[TS]
◼
►
it goes i was i was happy I was afraid
[TS]
◼
►
that this was going to go on for like
[TS]
◼
►
one chapter and then be done and and my
[TS]
◼
►
memory of it is so warm that I wanted to
[TS]
◼
►
go on longer and in the book actually
[TS]
◼
►
goes on a very long time that they're
[TS]
◼
►
that this whole portion is but i really
[TS]
◼
►
enjoyed the whole first contact with
[TS]
◼
►
value with Runa I'd read that as well
[TS]
◼
►
but i do think there's they they spend
[TS]
◼
►
like a year in this little village and
[TS]
◼
►
they never liked feet ask about the city
[TS]
◼
►
and try to get more information I found
[TS]
◼
►
an odd but i did--like i enjoyed reading
[TS]
◼
►
about it but I was like if i was there i
[TS]
◼
►
might you know go check out the city or
[TS]
◼
►
something I don't know it seems very
[TS]
◼
►
tempting but maybe they're so
[TS]
◼
►
overwhelmed with the the novelty like
[TS]
◼
►
everything is new on this alien planet
[TS]
◼
►
obviously they're writing scholarly
[TS]
◼
►
papers about the you know they're taking
[TS]
◼
►
yeah i think part of it is being
[TS]
◼
►
cautious and I'd I'm under the
[TS]
◼
►
impression that at least among
[TS]
◼
►
themselves some of the characters are
[TS]
◼
►
saying you know we really need to you
[TS]
◼
►
know try and you know try and find the
[TS]
◼
►
people who are the singers because the
[TS]
◼
►
whole reason they've come to this planet
[TS]
◼
►
is the music that the city picked up and
[TS]
◼
►
this particular population they don't
[TS]
◼
►
music no they don't do it but i can see
[TS]
◼
►
i think maybe it does stretch on a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit farther than it could that
[TS]
◼
►
might need to but
[TS]
◼
►
there's always seems to be something
[TS]
◼
►
else to do something else to take care
[TS]
◼
►
of before trying to go on to the next
[TS]
◼
►
thing ya i have I'm of two minds about
[TS]
◼
►
this because on the one hand like I mean
[TS]
◼
►
it from a logical perspective it does
[TS]
◼
►
make sense to to sort of take your time
[TS]
◼
►
and do it methodically accept these are
[TS]
◼
►
people that immediately decided to jump
[TS]
◼
►
in an asteroid and go to another planet
[TS]
◼
►
so I don't feel like that that argument
[TS]
◼
►
that great with impulse control that
[TS]
◼
►
argument doesn't quite work however on
[TS]
◼
►
the other side the reason that they were
[TS]
◼
►
able to jump into an asteroid so quickly
[TS]
◼
►
is because they're Jesuits and it was
[TS]
◼
►
God's plan you know that this everything
[TS]
◼
►
seemed to and they didn't talk in detail
[TS]
◼
►
about all of the stuff that had to
[TS]
◼
►
miraculously happen in order for it to
[TS]
◼
►
fall into place but you know from and
[TS]
◼
►
musing musings that they make it very
[TS]
◼
►
clear that that everything sort of came
[TS]
◼
►
together perfectly at the last minute in
[TS]
◼
►
a way that did seem like it was
[TS]
◼
►
miraculous so it made it very easy for
[TS]
◼
►
the the higher-ups in the in the Jesuits
[TS]
◼
►
to to say yes you know this is this is
[TS]
◼
►
meant to be and I believe that there
[TS]
◼
►
were a couple of nods to that in that
[TS]
◼
►
like you know Jimmy really did want to
[TS]
◼
►
get out there and go in the city but for
[TS]
◼
►
one reason or another it seems like they
[TS]
◼
►
should stay there
[TS]
◼
►
you know the whole God's plan again
[TS]
◼
►
amelia was leaning that way right and
[TS]
◼
►
also um Russell does take care the the
[TS]
◼
►
first member of the crew to die of what
[TS]
◼
►
appears to be natural causes they try
[TS]
◼
►
you know that and the doctor tries to do
[TS]
◼
►
an autopsy and with essentially field
[TS]
◼
►
conditions and can't figure it out
[TS]
◼
►
that was the music expert right so like
[TS]
◼
►
the biggest driving force in the party
[TS]
◼
►
is removed very early on
[TS]
◼
►
yep yeah the other thing that's
[TS]
◼
►
brilliant that's like I said this is up
[TS]
◼
►
it makes it so clear that Russell
[TS]
◼
►
strength is anthropology because she
[TS]
◼
►
throws in the gender mix-up at the
[TS]
◼
►
beginning and you know it it turns out
[TS]
◼
►
to be fairly harmless they just have to
[TS]
◼
►
reassess what they had assumed and
[TS]
◼
►
rework some of their papers but you know
[TS]
◼
►
to make such a monumental
[TS]
◼
►
misunderstanding of of the gender of
[TS]
◼
►
these peak of the of the Runa arm and
[TS]
◼
►
then take something as simple as
[TS]
◼
►
you know we really need to grow our own
[TS]
◼
►
food you know we yes we can eat a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
the stuff on this planet but you know it
[TS]
◼
►
would help if we had our own and you
[TS]
◼
►
know just something simple as a plant a
[TS]
◼
►
garden in this village and and start
[TS]
◼
►
eating the stuff there
[TS]
◼
►
turns out to have catastrophic effects
[TS]
◼
►
on the biosphere because we learn that
[TS]
◼
►
there's a second alien race that
[TS]
◼
►
essentially you have a predator and prey
[TS]
◼
►
situation that has evolved into this
[TS]
◼
►
entire set of the job
[TS]
◼
►
the Jaffa Jaffa yeah this is what I want
[TS]
◼
►
when I tell you have the Jon a one of
[TS]
◼
►
the things that's interesting here is is
[TS]
◼
►
yes Shannon this day the innocence of we
[TS]
◼
►
need to grow a garden is the thing that
[TS]
◼
►
essentially destroys this planet at
[TS]
◼
►
least as it was before they got there
[TS]
◼
►
which is is a an amazing kind of moment
[TS]
◼
►
where it unravels gradually and they
[TS]
◼
►
realize what's going on
[TS]
◼
►
so you mentioned that we should say it
[TS]
◼
►
so there it turns out that this is a
[TS]
◼
►
planet with two races and the reason
[TS]
◼
►
that the Runa seem kind of dasol is that
[TS]
◼
►
they have evolved from prey animals and
[TS]
◼
►
there's another species that has
[TS]
◼
►
involved evolved as their predators and
[TS]
◼
►
they look similar because that was the
[TS]
◼
►
hunting method used by the historical
[TS]
◼
►
predators but the Janata have three
[TS]
◼
►
claws instead of sort of five very
[TS]
◼
►
dexterous fingers and when we meet one
[TS]
◼
►
of them and it almost kills sandoz when
[TS]
◼
►
we do we discovered that this planet is
[TS]
◼
►
far more complicated than they have
[TS]
◼
►
really anticipated and i like i like
[TS]
◼
►
when they're like with the with the Runa
[TS]
◼
►
because I feel like yeah they're they're
[TS]
◼
►
they're so overwhelmed with meeting
[TS]
◼
►
these people that they would they want
[TS]
◼
►
to kind of take it slow and i think i
[TS]
◼
►
can buy that but at that moment when
[TS]
◼
►
they meet the jaw nada is that
[TS]
◼
►
revelatory moments like oh this is much
[TS]
◼
►
more alien than we really expected and
[TS]
◼
►
we finally we'll go to the city with
[TS]
◼
►
it turns out that again Russell used the
[TS]
◼
►
the traditional kind of predator prey
[TS]
◼
►
population balance which is something
[TS]
◼
►
that's like three or four
[TS]
◼
►
scent of the population of this planet
[TS]
◼
►
is the jhana ahh because that's
[TS]
◼
►
generally the percentage of the ratio
[TS]
◼
►
between predators and prey and and when
[TS]
◼
►
you put it when you layer that on
[TS]
◼
►
sentient creatures and this was a moment
[TS]
◼
►
that I really liked you realize that
[TS]
◼
►
what you've constructed is a ruling
[TS]
◼
►
class a very small ruling class and a
[TS]
◼
►
very large essentially slave or surf
[TS]
◼
►
class and that's actually the culture of
[TS]
◼
►
ricotta and and not just a slave class
[TS]
◼
►
but they're still pray they still needs
[TS]
◼
►
to us its candidate to us it feels like
[TS]
◼
►
cannibalism because you've got to
[TS]
◼
►
sentient you know races and one of them
[TS]
◼
►
is eating the other but yeah we finally
[TS]
◼
►
learned that that's one of the reasons
[TS]
◼
►
that the population control is so rigid
[TS]
◼
►
the rihanna the Runa are not allowed to
[TS]
◼
►
breed are unless they earn it by
[TS]
◼
►
gathering uh apparently perfume scent is
[TS]
◼
►
massively a massive part of this culture
[TS]
◼
►
and uh the Runa gather of the flowers
[TS]
◼
►
and the plants needed to create these
[TS]
◼
►
perfumes and create these sense and if
[TS]
◼
►
they do a good enough job
[TS]
◼
►
hey they get the right to have a
[TS]
◼
►
generation kids that are better on bread
[TS]
◼
►
with butter chosen by John auto because
[TS]
◼
►
they're all the breeding them like
[TS]
◼
►
humans would breed dogs
[TS]
◼
►
yes yes exactly Jonna auto themselves
[TS]
◼
►
are also under population control
[TS]
◼
►
because they can't have too many of them
[TS]
◼
►
because they need to keep the balance of
[TS]
◼
►
the prey and the predator and so when
[TS]
◼
►
when she introduces a super pirate right
[TS]
◼
►
he's a third yeah he's the third so we
[TS]
◼
►
meet him before he meets the humans and
[TS]
◼
►
so we get we find out he's a third he
[TS]
◼
►
can't have he can start his own family
[TS]
◼
►
he really wants to he's really good at
[TS]
◼
►
you know finding trends and you know
[TS]
◼
►
cashing in on it so it's supremely
[TS]
◼
►
wealthy but he's cool finder he has a
[TS]
◼
►
cool he is it a friend spotter
[TS]
◼
►
super-wealthy is very successful but he
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't get any respect and he really
[TS]
◼
►
wants to start his own family and the
[TS]
◼
►
only way you can do that is if you get
[TS]
◼
►
what's the the dead head guys name
[TS]
◼
►
registrar I think oh yeah the rest are
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's the title
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you have to you don't impress him
[TS]
◼
►
or do something worthy of being able to
[TS]
◼
►
found your own family and so we know
[TS]
◼
►
that's his motive and so when he meets
[TS]
◼
►
the humans we know a boy this is not
[TS]
◼
►
going to turn out well but they don't
[TS]
◼
►
know that obviously and spoiler alert it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't know me he does he uses them for
[TS]
◼
►
his own he takes his time yeah yeah
[TS]
◼
►
that's right he uses he uses them but it
[TS]
◼
►
in the beginning using them is not a
[TS]
◼
►
particularly terrible but there comes a
[TS]
◼
►
moment where he basically has to sell
[TS]
◼
►
them out and does and without you know a
[TS]
◼
►
moment's hesitation without any
[TS]
◼
►
compulsion yeah because he's like
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I got what I wanted to get whatever
[TS]
◼
►
I mean at that point she had been told
[TS]
◼
►
he had made it would what seems like an
[TS]
◼
►
actual emotional connection with a and
[TS]
◼
►
but she dies much earlier on and by the
[TS]
◼
►
time that soup re-release actually sells
[TS]
◼
►
them out the only person left at that
[TS]
◼
►
point is Emilio whom he didn't really
[TS]
◼
►
care for to start with so I don't feel
[TS]
◼
►
like I don't feel like he's necessarily
[TS]
◼
►
you know it's throwing over some
[TS]
◼
►
convictions that he had because the fan
[TS]
◼
►
would have still been alive it might
[TS]
◼
►
have been a different story true it's
[TS]
◼
►
well in fact support you could argue is
[TS]
◼
►
is a be the thing that the NOC but he's
[TS]
◼
►
got a with the other Janata is that he's
[TS]
◼
►
so much he gets along so well with the
[TS]
◼
►
Runa and if you think if you think about
[TS]
◼
►
that any human context right
[TS]
◼
►
he is a member of a ruling class whose
[TS]
◼
►
greatest skill is dealing with the
[TS]
◼
►
subjugated class and that is not good
[TS]
◼
►
right even if it makes him a good
[TS]
◼
►
businessman it means he is going to
[TS]
◼
►
never be able to access high society
[TS]
◼
►
because of that because he's his is all
[TS]
◼
►
of his skills are in dealing with the
[TS]
◼
►
lower class of of people in this case
[TS]
◼
►
the Runa and so when he meets and and
[TS]
◼
►
really really kind of bonds with her i
[TS]
◼
►
believe that bond because I feel like
[TS]
◼
►
that's what he's good at is meeting with
[TS]
◼
►
other kinds of people he's kind of like
[TS]
◼
►
the anthropologist of the jama oughtta
[TS]
◼
►
but the problem is the only way he's
[TS]
◼
►
gonna be able to further his line is to
[TS]
◼
►
be appointed as the head of a new family
[TS]
◼
►
which means he's got his success thing
[TS]
◼
►
in the background and and you know and
[TS]
◼
►
off screen which I have a problem with
[TS]
◼
►
and and in the end he just goes another
[TS]
◼
►
direction but I think that's a really
[TS]
◼
►
interesting character because although
[TS]
◼
►
he portrays them at the end I think I i
[TS]
◼
►
like that character because he's kinda
[TS]
◼
►
portrayed as being an outcast from the
[TS]
◼
►
jaw nada he's more like us than the rest
[TS]
◼
►
of them are which i think is one of the
[TS]
◼
►
problems with them under estimating the
[TS]
◼
►
Janata as as a people is that the party
[TS]
◼
►
and the wrong model for what they are
[TS]
◼
►
because he's the weird he's a weirdo
[TS]
◼
►
definitely is a weird he's gone native
[TS]
◼
►
essentially with the with Runa and it
[TS]
◼
►
and now with the humans and you know do
[TS]
◼
►
not think that the rest of the people
[TS]
◼
►
are like him because they are really not
[TS]
◼
►
yes they're their encounters with the
[TS]
◼
►
rest of Janata aren't the the free-range
[TS]
◼
►
Jonathan ahead with City Jedi are not so
[TS]
◼
►
good no right no we are either because
[TS]
◼
►
they're the roving bands who are still
[TS]
◼
►
sort of just acting as predators
[TS]
◼
►
I feel like I was like their loan motors
[TS]
◼
►
and they just go in and poach and sadly
[TS]
◼
►
they poach some humans they do so let me
[TS]
◼
►
let me so one of my remember 20 years
[TS]
◼
►
ago ish when I read this book that I did
[TS]
◼
►
it my biggest complaint about it is that
[TS]
◼
►
i felt like and i'm going to describe it
[TS]
◼
►
the way that I described it back then
[TS]
◼
►
which is I felt like at some point she
[TS]
◼
►
realized she needed to finish the book
[TS]
◼
►
and what who and what was a meandering
[TS]
◼
►
leisurely walk through dialogue and and
[TS]
◼
►
aggressions and descriptions rapidly
[TS]
◼
►
becomes a plot output to get to the end
[TS]
◼
►
yeah i buy it so this time this time i
[TS]
◼
►
watched for it and the fact is every
[TS]
◼
►
chapter alternates between the two
[TS]
◼
►
timelines until the last two chapters
[TS]
◼
►
and last two chapters are both in the
[TS]
◼
►
present-day the later timeline and they
[TS]
◼
►
describe everything that happened on the
[TS]
◼
►
planet in very short terms at a any
[TS]
◼
►
completely different style than the rest
[TS]
◼
►
of the book and it still frustrates me I
[TS]
◼
►
was wondering if I would be proven wrong
[TS]
◼
►
and rereading it and instead I was going
[TS]
◼
►
to vindicate its like I do feel driven
[TS]
◼
►
right I do feel like she ran out of time
[TS]
◼
►
the of energy and she wanted to finish
[TS]
◼
►
but I also i don't know whether this is
[TS]
◼
►
true or not but I also feel like maybe
[TS]
◼
►
she was a little cowardly about her
[TS]
◼
►
killing her characters because we don't
[TS]
◼
►
see and DW get killed on screen and we
[TS]
◼
►
don't see the massacre that is the final
[TS]
◼
►
destruction of this mission to the whole
[TS]
◼
►
thing that they've been leading up to
[TS]
◼
►
where everything goes wrong it's this
[TS]
◼
►
incredibly dramatic thing and it is told
[TS]
◼
►
in this perfunctory flashback fashion
[TS]
◼
►
where we never really get to see it at
[TS]
◼
►
anything like the level of everything
[TS]
◼
►
else we've seen up to that point and its
[TS]
◼
►
really frustrating it's made a little
[TS]
◼
►
more frustrating by the fact that in the
[TS]
◼
►
sequel to this book which i also read 20
[TS]
◼
►
or 15 15 years ago and was disappointing
[TS]
◼
►
i have to say it turns out that perhaps
[TS]
◼
►
one of the reasons that she did this is
[TS]
◼
►
because she was cheating and she wanted
[TS]
◼
►
to lie about exactly who died in that
[TS]
◼
►
massacre which is also frustrating but
[TS]
◼
►
my point is my point is though that you
[TS]
◼
►
can't it seems to me as as a reader and
[TS]
◼
►
maybe even as an editor you can't be
[TS]
◼
►
going like 20 miles an hour taking in
[TS]
◼
►
all the sights and then when you get to
[TS]
◼
►
the key point in the book
[TS]
◼
►
floor it and that's what happens at the
[TS]
◼
►
end of this book i agree because I was
[TS]
◼
►
I've been my school is starting again so
[TS]
◼
►
you know I've been busy and rushed and
[TS]
◼
►
trying to read as best I could and here
[TS]
◼
►
i was i still have like 60 pages of the
[TS]
◼
►
book left to go at nine o'clock this
[TS]
◼
►
evening and we started recording at
[TS]
◼
►
ten-thirty my time and I'm thinking like
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know that i'll finish but i'm
[TS]
◼
►
going to try um yeah i was able to get
[TS]
◼
►
through 60 pages in like 45 minutes
[TS]
◼
►
because it is so much
[TS]
◼
►
boom boom boom report report report yeah
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it's not it's not your imagination
[TS]
◼
►
i can i can come up with the reason i
[TS]
◼
►
don't know if it's a good reason or not
[TS]
◼
►
but i'll try to explain it so i think it
[TS]
◼
►
could mirror one could argue sandoz
[TS]
◼
►
journey at the beginning of the book is
[TS]
◼
►
reticent he does want to talk about
[TS]
◼
►
anything he's thinking about remembering
[TS]
◼
►
the good times on the planet right and
[TS]
◼
►
then as we're getting through there's
[TS]
◼
►
that revelatory moments where they
[TS]
◼
►
you were in a prostitute you were being
[TS]
◼
►
gang-raped and he you know he admits it
[TS]
◼
►
and it wasn't his fault he finally kind
[TS]
◼
►
of says you know
[TS]
◼
►
ok wasn't my fault it wasn't anything I
[TS]
◼
►
could do I was raped and then you cut
[TS]
◼
►
there's that there's a pivotal moment
[TS]
◼
►
for him and he suddenly just starts
[TS]
◼
►
talking about what happens and reveals
[TS]
◼
►
all these details and that's the last 60
[TS]
◼
►
pages of the book now I don't know if
[TS]
◼
►
that's a good reason but that if i had
[TS]
◼
►
to write a paper explain the structure
[TS]
◼
►
of the book that sure what I would write
[TS]
◼
►
yes i think is not that bad headcanon
[TS]
◼
►
Scott but yeah there's a lot of great
[TS]
◼
►
stuff in that that village i
[TS]
◼
►
particularly like where they start
[TS]
◼
►
farming because they need to to you know
[TS]
◼
►
grow their own food and the arena
[TS]
◼
►
obviously pay attention although you
[TS]
◼
►
know that this point we don't think that
[TS]
◼
►
the ruins are all that right but it just
[TS]
◼
►
turns out that they are they are as
[TS]
◼
►
bright as the regular people they just
[TS]
◼
►
have you know that they're aliens so
[TS]
◼
►
they do things differently and then they
[TS]
◼
►
notice that the farming and so they're
[TS]
◼
►
like gee why do we keep trudging so far
[TS]
◼
►
away to get our food when we can grow
[TS]
◼
►
and they start doing it and then of
[TS]
◼
►
course that least horrible things i
[TS]
◼
►
should point out horrible beatings and
[TS]
◼
►
civil war and what they have done is
[TS]
◼
►
also this incredible to put in Star Trek
[TS]
◼
►
terms violation of the prime directive
[TS]
◼
►
where the presence it turns out all as
[TS]
◼
►
careful as they sort of were being they
[TS]
◼
►
ruin this society because they the the
[TS]
◼
►
room and begin to plant gardens and then
[TS]
◼
►
they have an overpopulation and that
[TS]
◼
►
means the general artist and out squads
[TS]
◼
►
to kill them and there's a moment where
[TS]
◼
►
one of the human says there are more of
[TS]
◼
►
of of us than there are of you and
[TS]
◼
►
that's like oh no because the entire
[TS]
◼
►
power power structure is based on the
[TS]
◼
►
fact that these predators I have to have
[TS]
◼
►
put the fear in the prey
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and and the room to start chanting
[TS]
◼
►
that writes when the gentleman's this
[TS]
◼
►
squad is there and the gentle kind of
[TS]
◼
►
freaked out it just said ok we're going
[TS]
◼
►
there's the first massacre yeah yeah
[TS]
◼
►
starts the Civil which its powerful
[TS]
◼
►
right because it is that moment of like
[TS]
◼
►
this is actually being held in balance
[TS]
◼
►
by this consensual hallucination that
[TS]
◼
►
the predators and prey who have evolved
[TS]
◼
►
together in the society has evolved
[TS]
◼
►
together are in these roles and these
[TS]
◼
►
people from another planet come in and
[TS]
◼
►
say hey you realize there's way more of
[TS]
◼
►
you than them you could take them and
[TS]
◼
►
well yeah okay that's it forget it like
[TS]
◼
►
they totally screw up this society and I
[TS]
◼
►
really appreciated that there could have
[TS]
◼
►
been more of that too I feel like if she
[TS]
◼
►
had taken those last two chapters and
[TS]
◼
►
just let them go at the pace of the rest
[TS]
◼
►
of the book it would have been a perfect
[TS]
◼
►
book for my taste but instead it's sort
[TS]
◼
►
of like somebody was given to the
[TS]
◼
►
wrap-up sign maybe her agent maybe her
[TS]
◼
►
publisher was like you need to turn in
[TS]
◼
►
the manuscript right and I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's it's dramatic but I love a lot
[TS]
◼
►
about this book i was happy to read it
[TS]
◼
►
the characters are indelible the the the
[TS]
◼
►
the alien culture is interesting the yes
[TS]
◼
►
the how they get there in the fact that
[TS]
◼
►
it's eight people in an asteroid from
[TS]
◼
►
the society of jesus that make first
[TS]
◼
►
contact this kind of kind of ludicrous
[TS]
◼
►
and in one way but it's the story she
[TS]
◼
►
wants to tell because she wants to get
[TS]
◼
►
a Jesuit mission out to a new world
[TS]
◼
►
having a a experience meeting people
[TS]
◼
►
that they've never met before and that's
[TS]
◼
►
the purpose of the book so that's what
[TS]
◼
►
she does and there's so many somebody
[TS]
◼
►
moments in this book that works so well
[TS]
◼
►
but the problem is that they work so
[TS]
◼
►
well because they are gut-wrenching yes
[TS]
◼
►
and I the one that sticks out to be is
[TS]
◼
►
so after the slaughter the Janata patrol
[TS]
◼
►
cakes sandoz and the other another
[TS]
◼
►
priest Robicheaux that the survivors
[TS]
◼
►
yes that they're the two survivors
[TS]
◼
►
they're gonna take it back to the city
[TS]
◼
►
but before they do that they are going
[TS]
◼
►
to talk them through the the ruin of
[TS]
◼
►
villages that they're gonna go kill
[TS]
◼
►
people in because of the gardens that
[TS]
◼
►
they have planted and it turns out
[TS]
◼
►
that's on the road they eat the babies
[TS]
◼
►
of the Runa and they offer the food to
[TS]
◼
►
the two humans and the the one priest
[TS]
◼
►
refuses to eat it and he dies and centos
[TS]
◼
►
it does eat it because he wants to live
[TS]
◼
►
and let you know in the the 26 t-storm
[TS]
◼
►
one of the characters asks and what was
[TS]
◼
►
there something that you ate that mark
[TS]
◼
►
didn't that maybe that explains his
[TS]
◼
►
death and you don't know the
[TS]
◼
►
significance of that line until you read
[TS]
◼
►
the flashback and you're like oh man
[TS]
◼
►
yep this book well I mean Shannon
[TS]
◼
►
America know that I am I am drawn to
[TS]
◼
►
those uh those darker episodes of
[TS]
◼
►
Babylon 5 on their podcast there that is
[TS]
◼
►
part of the appeal of this book to me is
[TS]
◼
►
that it it does it go so horribly wrong
[TS]
◼
►
and you feel for these characters and
[TS]
◼
►
although i don't enjoy how wrong is
[TS]
◼
►
going to sound like I'm looking on it
[TS]
◼
►
I appreciate the fact that that story
[TS]
◼
►
has made me feel so horrible for these
[TS]
◼
►
characters that I like about this
[TS]
◼
►
terrible situation that they're put in
[TS]
◼
►
and it's just it's so yeah it's so
[TS]
◼
►
amazing that that's part of look at
[TS]
◼
►
sandoz this is all about his kind of the
[TS]
◼
►
life of his soul and the disposition of
[TS]
◼
►
his soul and he thinks that he is a
[TS]
◼
►
failure as a priest and then he finally
[TS]
◼
►
finds his calling and then the whole
[TS]
◼
►
thing goes so horribly wrong that in the
[TS]
◼
►
end you know all of these terrible
[TS]
◼
►
things happen to him that and and that's
[TS]
◼
►
the culmination of the story
[TS]
◼
►
really is that you're left with this
[TS]
◼
►
question of force and O's can you
[TS]
◼
►
can anybody forgive him and the
[TS]
◼
►
overarching question which is can he
[TS]
◼
►
believe in God anymore after being being
[TS]
◼
►
shown the possibility and then having
[TS]
◼
►
all of it taken away and i do mean all
[TS]
◼
►
because a yeah they're reading this the
[TS]
◼
►
second time around it it it hit me again
[TS]
◼
►
just help had just Russell's pretty much
[TS]
◼
►
just taking the knife and just turning
[TS]
◼
►
it like a corkscrew because you've got
[TS]
◼
►
um you know that you've got the the
[TS]
◼
►
issue of sandoz essentially being sold
[TS]
◼
►
into this up into this into this leaders
[TS]
◼
►
brothel as you know as an attraction as
[TS]
◼
►
you know an unusual exotic uh a partner
[TS]
◼
►
for people to rape you've got the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that he misunderstands what sapori asks
[TS]
◼
►
of him he safari actually asks him but
[TS]
◼
►
you know I want to take you into my
[TS]
◼
►
house I want to make you my dependent
[TS]
◼
►
and uses a word that sandoz does not
[TS]
◼
►
parse the pieces of until later and that
[TS]
◼
►
leads to the mutilation of their
[TS]
◼
►
missions where basically yet try to like
[TS]
◼
►
cut out between the bones of hand so
[TS]
◼
►
the two priests have these like claws
[TS]
◼
►
and as you said because the other priest
[TS]
◼
►
has been refusing to eat the the Runa
[TS]
◼
►
corpses them he dies but you know of the
[TS]
◼
►
operation but sandoz lives through that
[TS]
◼
►
and then he finally gets to a one point
[TS]
◼
►
where he thinks he's finally met the
[TS]
◼
►
singer the person who has been producing
[TS]
◼
►
this music and it's like okay it's what
[TS]
◼
►
brought me all of this is worth all this
[TS]
◼
►
one thinks the guy's a prophet he thinks
[TS]
◼
►
you know that he's been you know
[TS]
◼
►
praising god and he finds out know the
[TS]
◼
►
guys music is basically about orgasms
[TS]
◼
►
and pornography and it's like how much
[TS]
◼
►
worse can you make his rape and his rape
[TS]
◼
►
victims of which sandoz is now one I
[TS]
◼
►
mean that that is how horrible this
[TS]
◼
►
thing gets is but the sender's they find
[TS]
◼
►
this beautiful music from across the
[TS]
◼
►
universe and they go to find it and in
[TS]
◼
►
the end Santos finds the beautiful
[TS]
◼
►
singer and he is a race
[TS]
◼
►
fist who rapes him and the songs turn
[TS]
◼
►
out to be about the rapes that he does
[TS]
◼
►
it is as horrible
[TS]
◼
►
I mean it's horrible like that is it is
[TS]
◼
►
so horrible it is so good and then it's
[TS]
◼
►
comical there's there are many chapters
[TS]
◼
►
were ascending was talking about you
[TS]
◼
►
know his vow of chastity and if it's
[TS]
◼
►
worth it and it's tricky to introduce ya
[TS]
◼
►
decide who makes a very conscious effort
[TS]
◼
►
at decision know it that oath is sacred
[TS]
◼
►
to me and i cannot even though i am
[TS]
◼
►
stranded on this planet and there's a
[TS]
◼
►
woman who loves me and I love her and he
[TS]
◼
►
and Sophia clearly love that each other
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah I'm not going to do it and
[TS]
◼
►
then you know it just makes it all worse
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and the the fact that it's a very
[TS]
◼
►
end you know he's he's really left with
[TS]
◼
►
a choice which we don't get to see him
[TS]
◼
►
make but Santos has to decide okay so
[TS]
◼
►
was this really all you know is there no
[TS]
◼
►
God and this was all my fault all these
[TS]
◼
►
horrible things happen just because i
[TS]
◼
►
made this mistake and set it all in
[TS]
◼
►
motion or is there really a god and it's
[TS]
◼
►
actually God's fault that all of this
[TS]
◼
►
LOL awful stuff happened to me and I
[TS]
◼
►
wanted and yeah like so so what what
[TS]
◼
►
what too horrible things to have to
[TS]
◼
►
choose between sick you do really come
[TS]
◼
►
to an understanding of of why he is so
[TS]
◼
►
messed up all the way through the book
[TS]
◼
►
but yeah I was halfway through he's
[TS]
◼
►
having the same kind of discussion with
[TS]
◼
►
an who is throwing that exact question
[TS]
◼
►
in his face you know if you know all
[TS]
◼
►
these you know why is it why do we thank
[TS]
◼
►
god for the good things and then blame
[TS]
◼
►
ourselves to blame the doctor or blame
[TS]
◼
►
you know driver whoever has a rant about
[TS]
◼
►
that whole thing that she and little
[TS]
◼
►
basically says yes and 0 says you know
[TS]
◼
►
what if you want to blame God go for it
[TS]
◼
►
you know at least believing in God again
[TS]
◼
►
but yeah go for it if that's what you
[TS]
◼
►
need do it and you know rest we get to
[TS]
◼
►
the end of the book and he's facing that
[TS]
◼
►
same choice only now there's nobody
[TS]
◼
►
because he's surrounded by other Jesuit
[TS]
◼
►
priests who are trying to get to the
[TS]
◼
►
there is no one around there who has the
[TS]
◼
►
guts to tell him if that's what you need
[TS]
◼
►
to go for it i do think in terms of
[TS]
◼
►
thinking about 20 years later and
[TS]
◼
►
reading at twenty years later the one of
[TS]
◼
►
the things that this book does i think
[TS]
◼
►
quite well is portray a person who is
[TS]
◼
►
suffering from a horrendous case of post
[TS]
◼
►
traumatic stress disorder that Santos is
[TS]
◼
►
a broken destroyed man in the in the
[TS]
◼
►
2060 timeframe and over the course of
[TS]
◼
►
the book you see them the people the
[TS]
◼
►
Jesuits trying to find a way anyway that
[TS]
◼
►
some of them want to get information out
[TS]
◼
►
of them and some of them just want to
[TS]
◼
►
help him like move along and progress
[TS]
◼
►
because he's clearly utterly destroyed
[TS]
◼
►
he is a destroyed person and over the
[TS]
◼
►
course of the book he does get better
[TS]
◼
►
and it is slow and painful and he has a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of stuff to work through
[TS]
◼
►
and I really this time through i really
[TS]
◼
►
appreciated that part of it that I think
[TS]
◼
►
I didn't twenty years ago about how he
[TS]
◼
►
has to come to terms with this awful
[TS]
◼
►
thing that happened to him and he he
[TS]
◼
►
he's sick and bed he throws up he has to
[TS]
◼
►
take PS horrible headaches all of this
[TS]
◼
►
stuff and I thought that was really well
[TS]
◼
►
handled about his progression and how
[TS]
◼
►
for the longest time he doesn't say
[TS]
◼
►
anything about the braces they've
[TS]
◼
►
created to help his hands that the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that they hurt because he feels like he
[TS]
◼
►
deserves that she deserves
[TS]
◼
►
we'll finally one of the other priests
[TS]
◼
►
realize you know look we can do better
[TS]
◼
►
than that an amazing moment where he
[TS]
◼
►
finally finally complains about how
[TS]
◼
►
painful they are they realize how
[TS]
◼
►
painful they are and they immediately
[TS]
◼
►
sent for somebody and like within six
[TS]
◼
►
months he has brand new ones that are
[TS]
◼
►
much better and then don't cause him
[TS]
◼
►
pain and that are more functional but
[TS]
◼
►
for for a long time he doesn't talk
[TS]
◼
►
about it because he figures like yeah it
[TS]
◼
►
hurts a fine i deserve it
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I guess life is pain yeah one thing
[TS]
◼
►
that I will say on that side of things
[TS]
◼
►
that did not work for me was we had all
[TS]
◼
►
these characters in you know in the
[TS]
◼
►
asteroid known rakaat who are very full
[TS]
◼
►
of life and and I just I had trouble
[TS]
◼
►
telling the priest apart i would I was
[TS]
◼
►
forgetting a bunch of gray men in
[TS]
◼
►
priestly outfits in italy in 2060 right
[TS]
◼
►
yeah there's a guy isn't bad priest and
[TS]
◼
►
the priest from Cleveland and yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
maybe because it's the second time
[TS]
◼
►
around I i had a little easier time with
[TS]
◼
►
that certainly with the one who was
[TS]
◼
►
antagonistic almost the entire way
[TS]
◼
►
through the book versus the one or two
[TS]
◼
►
that you know are brought because either
[TS]
◼
►
they are skilled in psychology or
[TS]
◼
►
caring to try and get back to help
[TS]
◼
►
because you know they bring in one
[TS]
◼
►
priest that became a priest because he
[TS]
◼
►
knew amelia was a child and Emilio as a
[TS]
◼
►
priest was a role model for this guy and
[TS]
◼
►
then there's of course the the one who
[TS]
◼
►
was apparently married a stockbroker and
[TS]
◼
►
then you know he has a car crash the
[TS]
◼
►
wife dies and he decides to become a
[TS]
◼
►
priest and he took he's been like cannot
[TS]
◼
►
keep track of like that brother Edward
[TS]
◼
►
and yeah and we're just like
[TS]
◼
►
interchangeable for me i can see damage
[TS]
◼
►
characterization brother Edward now
[TS]
◼
►
you're right they're sort of sober uh
[TS]
◼
►
figures who are kind of battling with
[TS]
◼
►
their own politics about this and I i'm
[TS]
◼
►
not sure we needed mean they have a a
[TS]
◼
►
Inquisitor kind of figure who is the the
[TS]
◼
►
the guy who's the the ketamine priest
[TS]
◼
►
who doesn't believe him and that was not
[TS]
◼
►
that was like my least part of the whole
[TS]
◼
►
thing was the the the guy who's like it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't believe anything and it goes
[TS]
◼
►
back to the fact that I think it's
[TS]
◼
►
ridiculous that they just assumed
[TS]
◼
►
terrible behavior on centos is pardoned
[TS]
◼
►
and had no even consideration that there
[TS]
◼
►
were other stories to tell here but i
[TS]
◼
►
agree a hundred percent that the the
[TS]
◼
►
vibrancy of ricotta and that and and the
[TS]
◼
►
whole mission there is really contrasts
[TS]
◼
►
with this kind of emptiness maybe you
[TS]
◼
►
know some of that is because because
[TS]
◼
►
Santos is so broken but you're right
[TS]
◼
►
those characters are not particularly
[TS]
◼
►
notable I like the time-dilation thing I
[TS]
◼
►
mean that is one of the science things
[TS]
◼
►
that she used to great effect the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that although Santos only only you know
[TS]
◼
►
is a way for a couple of years in terms
[TS]
◼
►
yeah 40 years passes 22 get there in 20
[TS]
◼
►
back because they're there they're
[TS]
◼
►
traveling at half the speed of light
[TS]
◼
►
essentially for the voyage agent I I
[TS]
◼
►
thought that was good use of actual
[TS]
◼
►
science and made the plot made the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that he's coming back to a world he
[TS]
◼
►
never somebody points out at one point
[TS]
◼
►
very late in the book you've never asked
[TS]
◼
►
what happened in the time that you work
[TS]
◼
►
on and he says something like you know
[TS]
◼
►
I've seen too much
[TS]
◼
►
I don't care anymore her just like
[TS]
◼
►
amazing but it's a good use of that site
[TS]
◼
►
second rope and and the one thing we
[TS]
◼
►
didn't mention as they send him like the
[TS]
◼
►
UN people find them and they send them
[TS]
◼
►
back by himself on ya like that
[TS]
◼
►
definitely should not read through
[TS]
◼
►
it's just like I think can anything
[TS]
◼
►
he's gone through a whole this thing and
[TS]
◼
►
now he has to spend months and months
[TS]
◼
►
and months alone with his hands like
[TS]
◼
►
infected and nearly dying on the way
[TS]
◼
►
yeah to get back to an inquisition
[TS]
◼
►
basically yeah people are very angry
[TS]
◼
►
with him and a world that thinks he's an
[TS]
◼
►
awful awful person and I like the moment
[TS]
◼
►
where you know they've been sending all
[TS]
◼
►
these scholarly papers to our thoughts
[TS]
◼
►
heartbreakingly at at least you've
[TS]
◼
►
publicly you know my work is living
[TS]
◼
►
through my published scholarly papers
[TS]
◼
►
and they're like what we didn't publish
[TS]
◼
►
the decomposed that's not terrible like
[TS]
◼
►
they learn they learned everything about
[TS]
◼
►
these alien languages and they sent back
[TS]
◼
►
all these papers that's what they spent
[TS]
◼
►
their you're doing is writing up all
[TS]
◼
►
these things not just the languages i
[TS]
◼
►
mean they were sending back stuff on
[TS]
◼
►
everything they were experts in yeah and
[TS]
◼
►
if they buried the the Jesuits buried
[TS]
◼
►
the whole thing it's just it's it yeah
[TS]
◼
►
so heartbreaking
[TS]
◼
►
oh well this is this is a this is a a
[TS]
◼
►
first-contact experience that went
[TS]
◼
►
really really wrong and yeah interesting
[TS]
◼
►
interesting story but memorable enough
[TS]
◼
►
that that I've been talking about it for
[TS]
◼
►
the last 20 years and I know that when I
[TS]
◼
►
mentioned it to other people who've read
[TS]
◼
►
it they're like oh yeah right including
[TS]
◼
►
Shannon and Scott's oh yeah and we
[TS]
◼
►
should be so enthusiastically we've
[TS]
◼
►
hoodwinked Erica in 20 my batting
[TS]
◼
►
average for these book club episodes
[TS]
◼
►
pretty low sorry sorry about that
[TS]
◼
►
this one yeah yeah I i I'd like to tell
[TS]
◼
►
you I i would have warned you off if I
[TS]
◼
►
thought you wouldn't like this one but I
[TS]
◼
►
i don't think i would have done that
[TS]
◼
►
because I I think so highly of it so I'm
[TS]
◼
►
sorry didn't mean had read eight any
[TS]
◼
►
description of it whatsoever would have
[TS]
◼
►
known if known you noticed it was simply
[TS]
◼
►
that i went in cold and then just stuck
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and i was explaining this book to
[TS]
◼
►
maressa because i was like i told her oh
[TS]
◼
►
you should read this is a really great
[TS]
◼
►
book but i had read in 20 years and then
[TS]
◼
►
I reread it and then I thought maybe
[TS]
◼
►
risa it shouldn't read it
[TS]
◼
►
exploiting the plots of her she's like
[TS]
◼
►
that sounds like a book only you would
[TS]
◼
►
like Scott and you know many people like
[TS]
◼
►
this book but through maybe not you and
[TS]
◼
►
Eric many people admire this book i mean
[TS]
◼
►
i would say yeah i would say in my case
[TS]
◼
►
having read through the second time I
[TS]
◼
►
admire this book i love some of the
[TS]
◼
►
characters i love a lot of it but it is
[TS]
◼
►
a powerful read this for good or ill its
[TS]
◼
►
power them migrate it won many awards
[TS]
◼
►
when it was released yes and I i think
[TS]
◼
►
it's very I think it's very well done
[TS]
◼
►
although again I feel like the contrast
[TS]
◼
►
between the whole book in the last two
[TS]
◼
►
chapters is striking was like oh okay
[TS]
◼
►
we're not doing that anymore but the
[TS]
◼
►
stuff that the detail is is kind of
[TS]
◼
►
amazing and the characters in the
[TS]
◼
►
dialogue and it's all and she does some
[TS]
◼
►
pretty good prognostication a few parts
[TS]
◼
►
in terms of what life is going to be
[TS]
◼
►
like just about to say that you have
[TS]
◼
►
2016 in this book is not too far off
[TS]
◼
►
not so bad in theory a television
[TS]
◼
►
adaptation is coming from a sec that's
[TS]
◼
►
what they say although that would that
[TS]
◼
►
was a that was a 2014 announcement so it
[TS]
◼
►
may be in turn around just like the Brad
[TS]
◼
►
Pitt optioning of it in 2006 although i
[TS]
◼
►
think it would make much more sense as a
[TS]
◼
►
leg we say about so many books that we
[TS]
◼
►
read much more sense as a a TV limited
[TS]
◼
►
series where you could get you need the
[TS]
◼
►
length you need you need that length to
[TS]
◼
►
tell this this kind of story because it
[TS]
◼
►
means to build up so that the downfall
[TS]
◼
►
is even more horrifying
[TS]
◼
►
yeah well said yeah maybe that's right
[TS]
◼
►
the basic structure of the story so you
[TS]
◼
►
know it's a tragedy tragedy for sure i
[TS]
◼
►
mean this is this is a guy spends his
[TS]
◼
►
entire life looking for evidence of God
[TS]
◼
►
and God finally starts to show it to him
[TS]
◼
►
and goes yonk never liked you much
[TS]
◼
►
that's right that's well that's you know
[TS]
◼
►
in terms of the Bible right there are
[TS]
◼
►
those there are their stories not to
[TS]
◼
►
take it back to job but you know stories
[TS]
◼
►
of people who was like well part of the
[TS]
◼
►
test is maybe it's terrible for you and
[TS]
◼
►
you still have to believe in me and
[TS]
◼
►
that's just how that's the definition of
[TS]
◼
►
faith right you keep believing even
[TS]
◼
►
though it is difficult and that's the
[TS]
◼
►
other amazing thing about this book for
[TS]
◼
►
me is that you know there'd whatever
[TS]
◼
►
your opinions of religion are like
[TS]
◼
►
Jesuits in history actually did this
[TS]
◼
►
kind of thing they did lessons on a boat
[TS]
◼
►
and they cross the ocean they didn't
[TS]
◼
►
know where they were going just to see
[TS]
◼
►
what was out there and to hopefully you
[TS]
◼
►
know turns people into followers of
[TS]
◼
►
Christ but mostly enlist for the change
[TS]
◼
►
what's the expanding knowledge was also
[TS]
◼
►
a big part of it and that's you know
[TS]
◼
►
crazy to me and a lot of them yet
[TS]
◼
►
a lot of them would would end up dying
[TS]
◼
►
horribly and not return as they would
[TS]
◼
►
die or or having much like in this book
[TS]
◼
►
horrible things happen to them and yet
[TS]
◼
►
they they go back they recuperate and
[TS]
◼
►
then they go back to the same places
[TS]
◼
►
where these horrible things have
[TS]
◼
►
happened to them
[TS]
◼
►
yeah guess what horrible things happen
[TS]
◼
►
to the mechanic yep yep
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah absolutely it's a yeah it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's a thought-provoking book it's one
[TS]
◼
►
that I that I really appreciate I I my I
[TS]
◼
►
think you could also something we didn't
[TS]
◼
►
even talk on too much as if you believe
[TS]
◼
►
this as these as these Jesuits do that
[TS]
◼
►
there knowing God by visiting God's
[TS]
◼
►
other children that's another horror of
[TS]
◼
►
this book right the fact that this is a
[TS]
◼
►
on this world this small group of
[TS]
◼
►
creatures is preying upon this larger
[TS]
◼
►
group of creatures it in a way that is
[TS]
◼
►
fundamentally you would say a evil set
[TS]
◼
►
up an evil organization here and so that
[TS]
◼
►
I that kind of calls into question like
[TS]
◼
►
it's not just why do bad things happen
[TS]
◼
►
to the humans on this world but it's
[TS]
◼
►
like why is this world awful to in a
[TS]
◼
►
different way than ours so now there's
[TS]
◼
►
so much here if you like to be doing if
[TS]
◼
►
you want to be sad and depressed and see
[TS]
◼
►
horrible things happen anyway
[TS]
◼
►
check it out its parent told in a
[TS]
◼
►
beautiful way and it is it is i think
[TS]
◼
►
everybody now who has listened to this
[TS]
◼
►
is a very good idea if they should read
[TS]
◼
►
it or not I think Erica you should
[TS]
◼
►
listen to this podcast before you read
[TS]
◼
►
this book and find your TARDIS if only
[TS]
◼
►
will set it back in time before we go
[TS]
◼
►
I'm going to very quickly ask if there's
[TS]
◼
►
anything else that you've read recently
[TS]
◼
►
that you would like to mention to our
[TS]
◼
►
listeners because that's a fun thing
[TS]
◼
►
that we do Scott anything that you have
[TS]
◼
►
read recently that's been very
[TS]
◼
►
yes i have a spin spending some time
[TS]
◼
►
reading some historical fiction which i
[TS]
◼
►
will skip over but there are two scifi
[TS]
◼
►
books that I've read as of late that I
[TS]
◼
►
enjoyed one is called dark matter by
[TS]
◼
►
Blake croch he wrote some TV series that
[TS]
◼
►
i never watched wayward Pines i think
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I or he wrote the books that it but
[TS]
◼
►
based on whatever this book dark matter
[TS]
◼
►
is about this physicist who basically
[TS]
◼
►
figures out a way of traveling through
[TS]
◼
►
the multiverse and unintended
[TS]
◼
►
consequences happen it's interesting i
[TS]
◼
►
read it in two days
[TS]
◼
►
it's a an easy read and it is once you
[TS]
◼
►
figure out oh it's a multiverse thing
[TS]
◼
►
you think you know how it's going to end
[TS]
◼
►
but it doesn't end the way you think it
[TS]
◼
►
does which is always good and another
[TS]
◼
►
kind of more sci-fi in space book that I
[TS]
◼
►
read was dark run by Mike Brooks which
[TS]
◼
►
is the first in a series which I didn't
[TS]
◼
►
know when i started reading that was
[TS]
◼
►
always annoying but it's fun another fun
[TS]
◼
►
quick syfy read that i enjoyed and
[TS]
◼
►
before you start reading it you should
[TS]
◼
►
realize it's the first in a series at
[TS]
◼
►
some darkness there you got dark dark I
[TS]
◼
►
don't like alphabetically by title
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I i'm just going through all the
[TS]
◼
►
dark books now Erica something i'm under
[TS]
◼
►
anything you're reading that you want to
[TS]
◼
►
mention uh well i did recently read a
[TS]
◼
►
book called damaged goods which was
[TS]
◼
►
Russell T Davis's first foray into the
[TS]
◼
►
world of dr. Kalam which I wasn't a huge
[TS]
◼
►
fan of it if you're interested in that
[TS]
◼
►
one very did an episode on that i'll say
[TS]
◼
►
I liked it better than the sparrow are
[TS]
◼
►
huh I also more for fun and actual
[TS]
◼
►
recommendation i finally got around to
[TS]
◼
►
reading the fourth and final book of the
[TS]
◼
►
magic ex libris series by jesse hines
[TS]
◼
►
called revisionary and it was aight i
[TS]
◼
►
put it off because they did not want hit
[TS]
◼
►
series to be done and i knew when i
[TS]
◼
►
finish this last book which was the last
[TS]
◼
►
book that I wasn't gonna have anymore
[TS]
◼
►
but i finally got around to doing it and
[TS]
◼
►
I i think that he he wrapped it up
[TS]
◼
►
nicely somewhere in one of the books
[TS]
◼
►
before this the world comes to the
[TS]
◼
►
realization that there is actually magic
[TS]
◼
►
up there and I think that he does a nice
[TS]
◼
►
job of thinking through the possible
[TS]
◼
►
ramifications of what would happen if if
[TS]
◼
►
that were the case and you had magic on
[TS]
◼
►
one side and technology and the other
[TS]
◼
►
side and then you know the horribleness
[TS]
◼
►
of people in politicians and all that
[TS]
◼
►
kind of stuff and and the books overall
[TS]
◼
►
kind of light and fun but he sort of
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't pull punches with with what
[TS]
◼
►
would happen if it's like that it goes
[TS]
◼
►
to some dark places as well but still
[TS]
◼
►
still manages to be escaping enough for
[TS]
◼
►
me to do quite like it and and last I
[TS]
◼
►
have been proofreading the next issue of
[TS]
◼
►
uncanny magazine issue 12 there's one
[TS]
◼
►
short story in there called not a
[TS]
◼
►
miracle but a Marvel by tim pratt which
[TS]
◼
►
I just loved it was a i want to say it
[TS]
◼
►
was a twist on like a classic sort of
[TS]
◼
►
fairytale fable sort of a thing but it
[TS]
◼
►
was maybe a modern slant on it and I'm a
[TS]
◼
►
sucker for those sorts of things so
[TS]
◼
►
that'll that'll be out soon ish i'm not
[TS]
◼
►
sure exactly when in relation to win
[TS]
◼
►
this podcast drops Shannon anything you
[TS]
◼
►
would like to mention well um I this is
[TS]
◼
►
more in support of a foot then the
[TS]
◼
►
incomparable but I've been plowing
[TS]
◼
►
through carry Greenwoods friday Fisher
[TS]
◼
►
mysteries this summer the basically take
[TS]
◼
►
your detective she's a woman she's a
[TS]
◼
►
flapper in Australia in the twenties and
[TS]
◼
►
they have been a delight
[TS]
◼
►
i'm looking forward to when we get
[TS]
◼
►
around to talking about but that on a
[TS]
◼
►
foot both her the novels and also
[TS]
◼
►
started watching the the australian TV
[TS]
◼
►
show based on them but that's been the
[TS]
◼
►
majority of my reading this summer i am
[TS]
◼
►
NK jemisin with the fifth season because
[TS]
◼
►
everyone's talking about the obelisk
[TS]
◼
►
eight and i want to read that too
[TS]
◼
►
so those are on my list alright that's a
[TS]
◼
►
another book about flappers from
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Australia solving crimes whatever
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there's so many of those anyway uh
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listen whatever i read lately i read a
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couple of really fun
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non-fiction books that I want to mention
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one is by tom standage who's a writer
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an editor of The Economist formerly
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Glenn's editor at The Economist actually
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some cleansing their I a history of the
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world in six glasses which is a great
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book about it's a gloss on his the
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growth of human civilization through six
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different drinks and it's like beer and
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wine and spirits and coca-cola and
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coffee and tea and it's uh it's great
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and i also enjoyed mark for size book
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which was recommended to me by doing
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more in the entomological on which is
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just a silly series of their kind of
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like newspaper columns about ridiculous
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words in the English language and where
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I loved it and I really enjoyed stiletto
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the sequel to the brook by Daniel
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O'Malley sounds good as the rock
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yes but it's good fun sequel problems
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this its private I missed I i missed the
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world of the rock i wish there was a new
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record book every year and not every
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five years or whatever but it was really
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a lot of fun and I'm glad that it's out
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now because it was a lot of fun i agree
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and uh let's see the yeah i'm looking
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forward to reading the obelisk eight but
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i haven't read it yet so I can't say and
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i'm rereading the dark tower for future
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incomparable podcast so i read that the
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gunslinger and the drawing of the three
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in the last couple of weeks to refresh
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my memory on the nose because i read
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those many years ago
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you'll have to catch up on those we have
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yeah we have reached the end thank you
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to my guests for being here and and
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traveling with me in a hollowed-out
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asteroid to visit I i hope the aliens
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are nice air can sign thank you four get
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doing the reading and not bailing out
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hey I i feel like i have have persevere
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yes that's the thing that I did the
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Jesuits would approve the book and
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another thank you
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always a pleasure and Scott McNulty
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thank you very much thank you Jason and
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thanks everybody out there for listening
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to this edition of the comfortable
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hope we didn't test your faith a little
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