Roderick on the Line

Ep. 96: "The Beautiful Thing About an Idea"


  hello hi John who is it who's me at [TS]

  hello hello faddah have sex but soaked [TS]

  candygram for Mongo candygram for Mongo [TS]

  I'm Merlin by John uh-huh [TS]

  he's not awake yeah well I am awake i [TS]

  woke up a while back and been busy doing [TS]

  important high-level work here [TS]

  no you're going to high-level today I'm [TS]

  adjusting well you know i'm working at a [TS]

  high level and the work I'm doing is [TS]

  high-level work [TS]

  wow that is a good monday yes it is [TS]

  yes i'm hosting a show tonight which is [TS]

  in the family of shows where i guess [TS]

  that i mean i think when they pitch the [TS]

  show to me they were like oh you don't [TS]

  have to do any work you have to do [TS]

  anything justjust to be up onstage and [TS]

  and you know host whatever that is I [TS]

  don't even know who they are but I'm [TS]

  just gonna tell you they always say that [TS]

  yeah but you know it seems like if [TS]

  that's what they say [TS]

  then I'm just gonna go to go on on their [TS]

  say-so and could just show up but you're [TS]

  gonna have to dress and get there and it [TS]

  will probably remember things [TS]

  mhm don't tell you that i do have to [TS]

  remember a few things i do have to tell [TS]

  you and MC yeah i think you know when I [TS]

  was in high school I couldn't think of a [TS]

  better job than MC like that seemed to [TS]

  me to be the absolute pinnacle if you [TS]

  had achieved everything in life you were [TS]

  asked to be the MC [TS]

  mhm because the MC is not the talent [TS]

  he's not the is not the rookeries not [TS]

  that he doesn't own the club AMC shows [TS]

  up in a tuxedo he leaves in a tuxedo [TS]

  but he's there he's at the center of [TS]

  everything I really believed that MC was [TS]

  the greatest job and as I got older and [TS]

  put away childish things [TS]

  mm I started to realize that MC is not [TS]

  the greatest job i think it can be a [TS]

  really good job first of all I know from [TS]

  mutual friends of ours that it can be [TS]

  weirdly lucrative given me once you get [TS]

  good at it like given the amount of work [TS]

  you actually have to do in terms of [TS]

  preparation but you gotta do what you [TS]

  gotta be careful for the first of all I [TS]

  agree with you I think being an MC is is [TS]

  awesome and I think it's more pressure [TS]

  than most people realize [TS]

  yeah because you have to be at least [TS]

  familiar enough the pill go ladies and [TS]

  gentlemen your master of ceremony is [TS]

  draw in like yeah right there who all [TS]

  right so they gotta know who you are but [TS]

  then also you got to be careful i have a [TS]

  friend who he got roped into it like [TS]

  being like organizing the benefit for [TS]

  his kids school and I think it was [TS]

  presented to him is our friend we were [TS]

  talking about that yesterday but you [TS]

  know and they're like hey you're funny [TS]

  you know funny people can you do this [TS]

  benefit and of course nested in that job [TS]

  on the one hand at the AMC job of like [TS]

  show up [TS]

  read something off a card and riff if [TS]

  you have to fill time right and seem [TS]

  enthusiastic about everything that [TS]

  happens and then have a pithy remarks [TS]

  about what just happened [TS]

  that's kind of being an MC right yeah [TS]

  yeah that sounds right about right but [TS]

  have you know but as usual in in [TS]

  everything including entertainment [TS]

  there's a lot nested in that that [TS]

  basically came down to like can you put [TS]

  together a show [TS]

  yes right things right get your get your [TS]

  bigshot celebrity TV friends to come and [TS]

  do this [TS]

  yeah and it ends up being eight giant [TS]

  unpaid project for people who are not [TS]

  used to doing that kind of work you have [TS]

  the the Big Show's I've MC the big [TS]

  benefit shows that I'm emceed all fall [TS]

  into the category as I've as I have [TS]

  outlined elsewhere of that phenomenon [TS]

  where the the people that put on 250 [TS]

  shows a year send you one email and it [TS]

  has all the information you need about [TS]

  the show the people who put on One Show [TS]

  a year said you 200 [TS]

  50 emails and not a single one of them [TS]

  has any information it's usable and so I [TS]

  have emceed some big show some big [TS]

  benefit galas for some worthwhile [TS]

  organizations but but they end up being [TS]

  such a clusterfuck of of too many piano [TS]

  too many stage managers too many ideas [TS]

  you know that i showed up I showed up to [TS]

  one and they handed me a script that [TS]

  they had written when I was old [TS]

  yeah and I was like wow I would have [TS]

  liked to have seen this yesterday [TS]

  this is a full script this isn't just [TS]

  like somehow this isn't an outline this [TS]

  is like a full script so basically what [TS]

  you have asked me to do is stand up on [TS]

  stage and read this from this paper [TS]

  because i have i have an hour and not in [TS]

  your words [TS]

  oh no you know just like Hello ladies [TS]

  and germs and speaking and speaking of [TS]

  troublesome plumbing problems you know [TS]

  but tonight I think they are hiring [TS]

  event tonight they have hired me to be [TS]

  me which is a good that's a good gig but [TS]

  you get that too often you can start [TS]

  getting after it are getting hired to be [TS]

  able to you know like to a certainty [TS]

  like which you they think they're [TS]

  getting well that's the thing i've done [TS]

  a pretty pretty a work worthwhile job of [TS]

  calibrating the people's idea of the [TS]

  fake me you know like there's there's [TS]

  there's a pretty good fake me out there [TS]

  that everybody thinks is the real me and [TS]

  so when somebody when somebody hires me [TS]

  to be me [TS]

  I assume they mean fake me uh-huh that I [TS]

  have been carefully crafted fake me and [TS]

  I show up as fake me if they think that [TS]

  their iron me this section here about [TS]

  the children tap-dancing can we switch [TS]

  that out for about two-and-a-half hours [TS]

  of me talking about united airlines [TS]

  they're the people who who really are [TS]

  hiring me and one actual mean I don't I [TS]

  chooses there's not enough money in the [TS]

  world [TS]

  it reminds me a little bit of I haven't [TS]

  had a whole lot of experience with you [TS]

  know programming and development stuff [TS]

  but certainly enough over the period [TS]

  that I was doing it to know that they [TS]

  are similar in one way which is people [TS]

  have a really good idea in their head of [TS]

  what the finished product looks like you [TS]

  like you know an iOS app like a good i [TS]

  OS app looks like you know how to really [TS]

  good [TS]

  well but you know like what a good stage [TS]

  show looks like but you absolutely no [TS]

  idea what goes into making that thing [TS]

  oh right right no you don't want to see [TS]

  this one through this we made your [TS]

  website you you haven't really well and [TS]

  you participated very aggressively in [TS]

  handsomely and you and Sean both wrote a [TS]

  lot of stuff you understood that it was [TS]

  going to be I think if one thing one [TS]

  small success i had with that site was [TS]

  getting you understand that the Site was [TS]

  going to be as good as what you [TS]

  personally put into it otherwise it [TS]

  would be just another bunch of files on [TS]

  the internet and I think that actually [TS]

  turned out really well I'm proud of that [TS]

  site but you know when you go into [TS]

  something like like this like you say [TS]

  somebody who does it somebody if you [TS]

  work with someone who's like you know a [TS]

  production of producer type person you [TS]

  something actually like deals with [TS]

  people all the time knows what happens [TS]

  knows what for knows what questions [TS]

  people ask for used to afford me an [TS]

  email you got it recently that was I [TS]

  mean it was it was like it was like [TS]

  heart of darkness [TS]

  it was really really really long it was [TS]

  kind of hard to tease out exactly the [TS]

  information that they should have known [TS]

  that you would want out of it [TS]

  yeah well it's like that first time I [TS]

  went to South by Southwest and I thought [TS]

  though we were but we got done with our [TS]

  our show and there was this huge crowd [TS]

  of people standing right at the foot of [TS]

  the stage like I'm trying to load my amp [TS]

  off the stage and they're all these [TS]

  people like waving their business cards [TS]

  at me and I was thinking this is it I've [TS]

  hit I like I'm just going to plug these [TS]

  business cards and they're all going to [TS]

  say [TS]

  sony BMG and/or you know half of them [TS]

  are probably going to be cashier's [TS]

  checks this is like Obama at the [TS]

  democratic convention in many years ago [TS]

  that's right this is what your moment [TS]

  this is here John's I have a dream [TS]

  speech that's right this was a [TS]

  career-making turn your first time at [TS]

  South by back when south by really man [TS]

  nerd and this was going to be the moment [TS]

  and I and so I get off the stage and I'm [TS]

  like Hello [TS]

  nice to meet you all you know i'm i'm [TS]

  like taking my time with each person I'm [TS]

  looking at their business cards and [TS]

  little by little it starts to dawn on me [TS]

  after a half an hour that every one of [TS]

  these business cards is like billion [TS]

  francs record label out of Mobile [TS]

  Alabama you can see the perforation [TS]

  something car engine and you know and [TS]

  that realization that like oh they came [TS]

  to South by Southwest looking for the [TS]

  band that was going to make their record [TS]

  label viable not this isn't a moment [TS]

  where I am you know where actual suits [TS]

  are here to give me opportunities this [TS]

  is like but it but it looks close enough [TS]

  to that huh that I i see how people get [TS]

  to see how people get rooked into [TS]

  business relationships all the time [TS]

  where it's like oh wait no you are gonna [TS]

  help me right and I so I get emails like [TS]

  that all the time where it's like we [TS]

  would love to give you a big show and I [TS]

  go okay well what's the deal and they're [TS]

  like we'll all we need you to do is [TS]

  promoted and devised it and sell it and [TS]

  be the man of it and tell us how to do [TS]

  it and also find the money for it and [TS]

  just like you are not offering me [TS]

  anything it's not like it's gonna get [TS]

  going up to somebody and it love your [TS]

  elevator pitch being i would like to [TS]

  why would she would give me the honor of [TS]

  letting me take you out to a really [TS]

  really fancy dinner [TS]

  that's kind of what the pitch feels [TS]

  thanks but then you realize they don't [TS]

  know how to cook [TS]

  it's really that basically they want you [TS]

  to have them over for dinner but never [TS]

  been to a restaurant before you don't [TS]

  know what happened is now now i know it [TS]

  happens all the time now I feel like [TS]

  that in my family [TS]

  historiography there is at the core of [TS]

  my father's family there is a similar [TS]

  situation where like my grandmother was [TS]

  my grandmother's family was an old [TS]

  Seattle family that didn't have any [TS]

  money they were the White Russians of [TS]

  Seattle [TS]

  all their friends were rich they lived [TS]

  in a big house in the right neighborhood [TS]

  but they didn't but they were uh how do [TS]

  you say not rich and a grand [TS]

  great-grandfather was a judge you know [TS]

  that I think they they they said they [TS]

  seem successful [TS]

  yeah they they had prominence without [TS]

  any money and I think it's looking at [TS]

  myself and my father's family it is [TS]

  because no one had any business acumen [TS]

  but they raised their daughter to be a [TS]

  real catch for a prince and she was an [TS]

  opera singer and she had toured Europe [TS]

  before the war and she was you know [TS]

  cultured and elegant and all these [TS]

  things and in world war one she went to [TS]

  Europe to sing for the soldiers in the [TS]

  trenches back when soldiers in the [TS]

  trenches wanted to hear opera and in [TS]

  between because the way that war was [TS]

  fought they would then she would sing [TS]

  for the soldiers up by the front and [TS]

  then they would drive her back to Paris [TS]

  and wine and dine you know for a week or [TS]

  two and then go back up and sing for the [TS]

  soldiers again it was not there was not [TS]

  a tremendous amount of hardship but she [TS]

  was being squired around by generals and [TS]

  you know she wrote a book called a [TS]

  nightingale in the trenches which is [TS]

  which is a terrible book [TS]

  but it tells these fascinating stories [TS]

  about like oh well and here comes John [TS]

  Pershing in the back in the back of an [TS]

  open car and they they go off together [TS]

  to you know to the Moulin Rouge and [TS]

  plates etc you know it's all very [TS]

  glamorous but then she meets my [TS]

  grandfather David Roderick senior who is [TS]

  the son of a Welsh immigrant coal miner [TS]

  and who had been raised to succeed in [TS]

  America to banish all the the ugliness [TS]

  of being immigrants and so he had [TS]

  memorized Shakespeare and he had [TS]

  memorized all the you know he'd [TS]

  memorized Whitman and he was a cultured [TS]

  he could quote that length from the [TS]

  Bible and he spoke with a haughty manner [TS]

  and was a young lieutenant and he'd made [TS]

  up a backstory for himself that he was [TS]

  descended from scottish kings and their [TS]

  family still thought it was Scottish [TS]

  that's when we still thought we were [TS]

  Scottish he knew he wasn't Scottish but [TS]

  he was the one that started this this [TS]

  alignable anyway they meet they meet in [TS]

  world war one in the glamorous heady [TS]

  days at the end of the war when the you [TS]

  know the far-off cannon fire and yet [TS]

  they are drinking champagne here at the [TS]

  in the rearward area and each one of [TS]

  them was actually they're totally full [TS]

  of shit like Miss representing [TS]

  themselves as a member of America's [TS]

  aspirational class they were each one [TS]

  teach one knowing who they are thought [TS]

  they were getting a catch [TS]

  that's right they were people at [TS]

  Gatsby's party and they saw one another [TS]

  across a crowded dance floor and i'm [TS]

  sure you know either one of them could [TS]

  have used their line you know what what [TS]

  they're carefully crafted line [TS]

  they could have used that to to meet and [TS]

  marry someone who had money who was [TS]

  perhaps culturally impoverished but [TS]

  maybe the heir to the singer sewing [TS]

  machine family fortune or maybe the [TS]

  heiress of the you know the like my [TS]

  grandmother's brother did marry the [TS]

  heiress of the buster brown shoe fortune [TS]

  but that money never made it to me in [TS]

  any case it wasn't until they were [TS]

  married and back in the states that they [TS]

  finally realized that they had could [TS]

  wing to one another with their Bologna [TS]

  at the exact same moment but it said I'm [TS]

  gonna need a little money this month [TS]

  yeah they're like oh what but and here's [TS]

  the real tragedy here is the American [TS]

  tragedy they were in love and so it was [TS]

  unthinkable to them that they would not [TS]

  that they would separate for such course [TS]

  reasons as that they were but their [TS]

  entire mutually fraudulent yeah their [TS]

  entire founding myth was was a was a [TS]

  blatant lie [TS]

  and so here we are that's ok sorry [TS]

  ancestry they just they just shot the [TS]

  lie down the pipeline they were like [TS]

  let's just keep telling this lie on both [TS]

  sides and just you know raise their kids [TS]

  to believe that their kids were [TS]

  descended from the Scottish Lords and [TS]

  that there was money waiting in a trunk [TS]

  is this day when you find yourself [TS]

  looking up in the trees wondering could [TS]

  there be a bag of money hanging there [TS]

  I do I go I i go it's your birthright is [TS]

  there a trunk in the Attic somewhere [TS]

  that I haven't seen it's gotta be a [TS]

  false bottom here somewhere that's right [TS]

  i'm looking for the false bottom [TS]

  everywhere I go I'm not knocking looking [TS]

  for the hollow space in the what is such [TS]

  an American story though it really is a [TS]

  sweet story it's a very American story [TS]

  because there is an element of fake it [TS]

  till you make it in america i mean look [TS]

  at how many people anglicized their [TS]

  names when they come here [TS]

  it really is such as a chef such a [TS]

  chance for a fresh start and you get one [TS]

  good suit [TS]

  you know a haircut and I feel like if [TS]

  either one of them had this mysterious [TS]

  talent which is business acumen like [TS]

  they had all the opportunity in the [TS]

  world and they have this backstory if if [TS]

  only a little business acumen had [TS]

  entered the picture and they had [TS]

  succeeded then the the success in [TS]

  America validates the the bullshit story [TS]

  in so many families so that all of a [TS]

  sudden [TS]

  well that's why everybody in America is [TS]

  descended from robert e lee that's why [TS]

  everybody you know like everybody in [TS]

  America has a great you know has some [TS]

  some part of their family story that [TS]

  where they arrived on the Mayflower and [TS]

  it's all baloney but it but at some [TS]

  point somebody had success and then [TS]

  their version of the story was accepted [TS]

  and what's funny about my family is that [TS]

  half of my half of my relatives have [TS]

  actually become successful they have [TS]

  married well and you would if you if [TS]

  they were sitting here right now their [TS]

  version of my grandmother and [TS]

  grandfather story would be very [TS]

  different from mine because they will [TS]

  they not only do they accept the kind of [TS]

  a geography but like its kind of crucial [TS]

  its kind of crucial to their own [TS]

  identity that some of those stories be [TS]

  true [TS]

  yeah well I think it's really i'm [TS]

  thinking about my own family and people [TS]

  I've known and it's you know it's like [TS]

  everybody anything for a long time it's [TS]

  been critical to maintain the family [TS]

  secrets [TS]

  I mean for some reason I can't help [TS]

  thinking of like William Faulkner and [TS]

  like you know and learning these [TS]

  different sides of the story and [TS]

  learning what really happened and you [TS]

  know sometimes that shared familial lie [TS]

  is can can be like a great bond em don't [TS]

  you think [TS]

  hell yes well I don't you know [TS]

  I at the beginning of the grunge years I [TS]

  remember being here in Seattle kind of [TS]

  walking around the bars and the times in [TS]

  the towns and listening to people tell [TS]

  their family story in their backstory [TS]

  and realizing that i was in a new world [TS]

  because in the grunge ears every kid was [TS]

  telling a story about how his family was [TS]

  garbage like the fashion at the time was [TS]

  to say I'm white trash [TS]

  I'm descended from losers I I don't have [TS]

  never had anything I've ever had to [TS]

  raise myself and maybe my sibling since [TS]

  I was young I've always been independent [TS]

  that's right and it was part of that you [TS]

  know in 1991 like in 1986 every town had [TS]

  a a small handful of punk rockers who [TS]

  you know who who smoked clove cigarettes [TS]

  under the under the statue in the town [TS]

  square and they were you know they [TS]

  unless you lived in a fuse and a few [TS]

  rare environments like you know [TS]

  somewhere in southern california and [TS]

  washington DC New York I mean there was [TS]

  there was not if you were growing up in [TS]

  hiawatha in the early eighties like [TS]

  anywhere punk rocker you were you want a [TS]

  very small little group of people but by [TS]

  1991 1992 every single person our age [TS]

  had some story about themselves that [TS]

  they had been punked that whole time and [TS]

  part of that story was that they were [TS]

  they had been abused they'd raise [TS]

  themselves they had they had nothing [TS]

  nowhere to fall back [TS]

  it was they were from you know they were [TS]

  from this garbage strain of American [TS]

  nobody's and all you have to do is go [TS]

  look at their high school yearbook and [TS]

  you realize oh no that's not true at all [TS]

  like your pictures in the yearbook but [TS]

  yet you like showed up for school [TS]

  yeah that's the first sign that you're [TS]

  not a garbage person whatever I think [TS]

  the garbage person is but I mean [TS]

  I heard the word white or the phrase [TS]

  white trash so much in ninety-three [TS]

  ninety-five like it [TS]

  everybody was claiming to be it in [TS]

  Seattle especially and up until that [TS]

  point it had never occurred to me that [TS]

  anybody would have a a backstory that [TS]

  didn't include some at some point that [TS]

  you had come over on the Mayflower [TS]

  because you know because my family was [TS]

  so invested in this in in that what was [TS]

  effectively a dying version of american [TS]

  middle class social aspiration my my [TS]

  cousins were still worried about getting [TS]

  into the Daughters of the American [TS]

  Revolution and having enough [TS]

  documentation to prove that they could [TS]

  be members and all of a sudden around me [TS]

  all my peers were like my dad's in [TS]

  prison and I'm you know my mom was a [TS]

  whore like wait a minute your dad worked [TS]

  for hewlett-packard and your beer mom uh [TS]

  you know has only had sex with two [TS]

  people in her whole life like what are [TS]

  you talking about it was it was just as [TS]

  much Bologna but but but the the [TS]

  aspiration had had flipped entirely i [TS]

  still see that I mean you know I still [TS]

  see that a lot in my generation you [TS]

  don't see it in the kids but people [TS]

  you're in my age if you if you sit down [TS]

  and hear their family story you still [TS]

  here a lot of you still hear them [TS]

  struggling to took to put across this [TS]

  this tale this like Wild West hillbilly [TS]

  tail [TS]

  well yeah and I mean I think part of it [TS]

  is trying to manage expectations and [TS]

  like set a certain bar so you know it's [TS]

  sort of like the kid always turns paper [TS]

  and label course it's often we do it [TS]

  took me two minutes [TS]

  you know like if you can create this [TS]

  world where like you have him probably [TS]

  succeeded against all odds and you [TS]

  obviously are you trying to get yourself [TS]

  the credibility of having more tenacity [TS]

  more intestinal fortitude than the [TS]

  people around you but also like I think [TS]

  this happens to this day [TS]

  I mean somewhere talking about the other [TS]

  day too is doing this kind of like kind [TS]

  of weird weird version of social [TS]

  climbing the people do and could I think [TS]

  it happens most commonly with people [TS]

  where you try to like canoodle up to [TS]

  somebody who's a little more famous than [TS]

  you in order to canoodle up to the next [TS]

  level from them and you basically get [TS]

  the you want to get the equivalent of a [TS]

  recommendation letter of recommendation [TS]

  from from that person but it also it [TS]

  also the reason it reminds you of the [TS]

  fucker stuff is like it's also like you [TS]

  can decide which parts of your life that [TS]

  are really maybe even eighty percent [TS]

  true you choose to tell people about [TS]

  yeah like I can you know I can talk [TS]

  about like you know punk rock shows i [TS]

  went to bed at a certain time or i could [TS]

  talk about being like most talented [TS]

  senior depending on what suits me [TS]

  that's right you were most talented [TS]

  senior yeah I'll i technically i was [TS]

  also class clown but you can only win [TS]

  one most talented mustache [TS]

  eighteen-year-olds I think you should [TS]

  have won it took me like two years to [TS]

  get that letter about that I think about [TS]

  who this generation that's coming up and [TS]

  particularly and I i'm not sure the [TS]

  twitter world in the internet world that [TS]

  I live in I'm not sure how [TS]

  representative it is of the world at [TS]

  large [TS]

  you're not but that the mom butt we [TS]

  joked about this at at at our Roderick [TS]

  on the line live shell which is the the [TS]

  idea of like if you if you were 16 years [TS]

  old right now and you were getting us [TS]

  the steady input of check your privilege [TS]

  check your privilege and and the the [TS]

  presumption being that the more [TS]

  privileged you are the more the more [TS]

  other people can point to you and call [TS]

  you privileged the actual that the less [TS]

  authority you have to speak that this [TS]

  notion the right like you're the the [TS]

  group that you represent in my mind has [TS]

  had more than ample opportunity to be [TS]

  represented in the public forum right so [TS]

  now your turn to shut up and ended feel [TS]

  bad about it right and so authority to [TS]

  speak is becoming in the in the certain [TS]

  segments of the world which I which I [TS]

  don't [TS]

  when I meet people in their early [TS]

  twenties I don't see them as [TS]

  overburdened they generally seem like a [TS]

  pretty happy generation but then online [TS]

  there's this there's this simultaneous [TS]

  dialogue which is which is basically [TS]

  like shut up shut up shut up like you [TS]

  all have to shut up even though telling [TS]

  people to shut up is bullying and bad [TS]

  but the but the effect of the effect of [TS]

  this check your privilege [TS]

  firstworldproblems constant sort of wave [TS]

  after wave of of attempts to censor [TS]

  anybody that doesn't have like a perfect [TS]

  backstory [TS]

  where where where their story deserves [TS]

  to be heard whatever I can't imagine [TS]

  that it isn't creating a similar kind of [TS]

  identity wave in people where they're [TS]

  searching their family histories they're [TS]

  searching their own stories for ways in [TS]

  which they are victims of history or [TS]

  victims of of oppression such that there [TS]

  that their opinions matter or such that [TS]

  they that they no longer have to [TS]

  self-censor self apologize and that they [TS]

  can that they can actually speak with [TS]

  some Authority some Authority earned by [TS]

  your forefathers or earned by the burned [TS]

  by your victimization and I can't [TS]

  imagine what what kind of tangled the [TS]

  stories people are telling about [TS]

  themselves in bars where it's not enough [TS]

  anymore to just say like oh my people [TS]

  were white trash like you have to say my [TS]

  people were my people were also [TS]

  brutalized by history and although i [TS]

  might appear to be did I retired this [TS]

  story i was at that this is so funny of [TS]

  its recurring it's occurring to me now I [TS]

  was in a bar and a guy six-foot-seven [TS]

  guy with bright red hair [TS]

  red eye lashes like red guy freckles [TS]

  whose name was like Sheamus McKinnon he [TS]

  and I are talking in this bar and I make [TS]

  some reference to to being a Celt like [TS]

  well you know at as a Celt I'm sure you [TS]

  feel here you use something something [TS]

  something something I don't remember [TS]

  when i said to the guy and he stopped me [TS]

  very serious and he said I I look [TS]

  celtic but I'm native american and i [TS]

  wasn't sure if he was kidding and I was [TS]

  like tell me more [TS]

  and he was like you know my grandmother [TS]

  was a chop saw and my on my [TS]

  grandfather's side you know she was he [TS]

  was a a you know an Iroquois and so you [TS]

  know I'm I mean I look I guess Irish if [TS]

  thats it to you but but I'm to a breeder [TS]

  like you [TS]

  yeah but i'm a native american and i was [TS]

  like wow okay all right i mean i don't [TS]

  know i didn't press him for like what [TS]

  percentage of top saw was your [TS]

  grandmother I mean it's not important [TS]

  because now all the sudden all of a [TS]

  sudden you're like the East you like [TS]

  star Z you right now it's not my job to [TS]

  to like it too to do that but maybe just [TS]

  maybe all you have to do is declare that [TS]

  you know and and now you know it so [TS]

  there's one part of this and this is [TS]

  only like saying this but you know it [TS]

  seems like there are so many Lauer [TS]

  strong voices right now that are very [TS]

  very angry and the part about it that I [TS]

  think it's kind of a bummer is that [TS]

  people people are being actively [TS]

  encouraged to only find a strong voice [TS]

  if they can do it to immediate out [TS]

  immediately ally themselves with a group [TS]

  of people there's not that there's not [TS]

  that much encouragement that icy out [TS]

  there to be a singular voice anymore [TS]

  because singular being a singular voice [TS]

  will get you like really smack down at [TS]

  this point and I think you can [TS]

  controversial eyes what almost anybody [TS]

  says [TS]

  it's like it was like you're straying [TS]

  too far from the pack i wouldn't want to [TS]

  stay politically correct that's that's [TS]

  22 over simplified but there's there's [TS]

  so much identity politics right now that [TS]

  I think it's becoming almost [TS]

  irresistible for people to ally [TS]

  themselves even if they don't if you [TS]

  like belong with that group you can have [TS]

  all the sympathy in the world that you [TS]

  want for and it's certainly I mean in an [TS]

  ideal world we would just have sympathy [TS]

  for each other for being human beings [TS]

  but that doesn't really count anymore [TS]

  now you actually have to you have to [TS]

  show your bona fides that you are you [TS]

  are you are for all practical purposes [TS]

  Native American there for you now have [TS]

  your so closely allied with this that [TS]

  you can we can get you past the [TS]

  privilege bar that you're allowed to [TS]

  have some kind of an opinion at this [TS]

  point because otherwise you're just [TS]

  you're just another part of the problem [TS]

  yeah well I'm gonna be part of that [TS]

  group if I feel like it's like it when [TS]

  anybody who strays too far from the pack [TS]

  or whose gets too far off message is [TS]

  really kind of shouted down as being [TS]

  part of this this you know [TS]

  amorphis blob of the problem the one [TS]

  percent that whatever all this other [TS]

  this other nurse other pneus and you can [TS]

  just find some group that will that you [TS]

  can kind of such sidle up to that is the [TS]

  opposite of the other niggas then then [TS]

  you're allowed to be all mad and you're [TS]

  allowed to talk if you get off that [TS]

  what's confusing is that if you get off [TS]

  message for them the message being like [TS]

  the you know the whatever this the [TS]

  perfect storm we're talking about that's [TS]

  happening in the culture now the message [TS]

  which is very very focused on rights on [TS]

  on the rights denied on the elderly [TS]

  overdue writes the the rights that are I [TS]

  mean it's at the chomsky world where the [TS]

  where the if you get off if you get off [TS]

  Chomsky message it doesn't matter what [TS]

  you're saying [TS]

  outside of that message whatever it is [TS]

  you are on the other message right i [TS]

  mean as soon as you get off the the [TS]

  dialectic [TS]

  whatever you're saying even even [TS]

  presumably still like an innocuous [TS]

  material you are you are you are being [TS]

  accused of speaking on behalf of the big [TS]

  problem you're automatically a [TS]

  reactionary you're automatically part of [TS]

  the the counter revolutionary movement [TS]

  yeah i wrote I I philip seymour hoffman [TS]

  died and and not somebody pointed out to [TS]

  me that I had written a few years ago an [TS]

  article about about creativity and drugs [TS]

  and so i reposted it just saying like [TS]

  this is a thing I wrote about rock and [TS]

  roll about the relationship between [TS]

  creativity and drugs and how it how [TS]

  would have been that some of the [TS]

  mistakes we make thinking that the two [TS]

  are connected and I get you know I [TS]

  people replied to me and said thank you [TS]

  for doing that or a nice article and [TS]

  then somebody and obviously a fan a fan [TS]

  of me and a fan enough to go retail [TS]

  click a link and go read an article I [TS]

  wrote wrote me and said I really liked [TS]

  your article except for the part where [TS]

  you said wives and girlfriends [TS]

  contribute to the problem because that [TS]

  implies that women can't be musicians [TS]

  and all of this is in a tweet right and [TS]

  what wasn't overt in the article that I [TS]

  wrote was that i was writing it in [TS]

  response to the plight of a female [TS]

  musician i know in Seattle who was [TS]

  drinking and drugging herself to death [TS]

  and everybody in town knew it she's a [TS]

  famous musician she was killing herself [TS]

  with drugs and I had I had an encounter [TS]

  with her in a bar and watched as people [TS]

  all around her including a lot of rock [TS]

  stars who had seen their friends die [TS]

  they were all facilitating this drug [TS]

  problem because everybody's too [TS]

  embarrassed to address it [TS]

  and also it's not cool and also oh [TS]

  that's just how how she is how blank ins [TS]

  whatever and so I wrote this article [TS]

  like no don't sit and watch your friends [TS]

  die that's not cool her drug problem and [TS]

  her creativity are not connected your [TS]

  drugs and creativity are not connected [TS]

  like can we not save this person and the [TS]

  article was obvious enough to people in [TS]

  Seattle that I got a few phone calls [TS]

  from also other rock musicians who were [TS]

  like thank you for doing that we really [TS]

  need to do something about her she's [TS]

  gonna die etc etc and it ended up that [TS]

  she went to rehab and his eye and his is [TS]

  has survived but so I get this tweet [TS]

  from this concerned reader whose like [TS]

  I'd I like the article except for this [TS]

  and and obviously this is a this is a [TS]

  fan and somebody who appreciates where [TS]

  I'm coming from right [TS]

  she already knows what I'm on about but [TS]

  she felt and I have no idea how old this [TS]

  person is she could be 20 she could be [TS]

  50 but she felt her job as a reader was [TS]

  to detect the two was too [TS]

  was it her antenna were so sensitive [TS]

  that she found this moment in the piece [TS]

  where I said wives and girlfriends and [TS]

  her alarm bells went off and she needed [TS]

  to alert me to that and needed basically [TS]

  to say I see this and you need to be [TS]

  re-educated a third that's the word to [TS]

  never use wives and girlfriends again [TS]

  without also saying husbands and [TS]

  boyfriends or without also stipulating [TS]

  that that females can be musicians to or [TS]

  without also you know like you didn't [TS]

  you didn't adequately prepare [TS]

  you did not you were not being careful [TS]

  enough in predicting all the ways that [TS]

  could need to be corrected for emotional [TS]

  person and so this reader in with her [TS]

  hyper zeroed in sensitivity failed to [TS]

  recognize that the entire article was [TS]

  about a female musician and that the [TS]

  degree to which I masked that was [TS]

  because I did not want to slam for like [TS]

  trying to shame and out that right i [TS]

  mean writing this article for a general [TS]

  audience all the people that know her [TS]

  and noemi knew it was about her and knew [TS]

  it was a a new the article was meant for [TS]

  a for an audience of people that were [TS]

  supposed to recognize themselves in it [TS]

  and stop helping this woman killed [TS]

  herself but but the so this close reader [TS]

  failed to read the big article and [TS]

  failed to see that it was that you know [TS]

  that I had worked long and hard to make [TS]

  it to to take gender out of it in order [TS]

  to spare this person the embarrassment [TS]

  but also even if that weren't the case [TS]

  wives and girlfriends do facilitate the [TS]

  are a problem like wives and girlfriends [TS]

  are problem and it and I don't need to [TS]

  say husbands and boyfriends because the [TS]

  husband's that our problem for female [TS]

  rock musicians are wives basically you [TS]

  know I mean random but suffice to say [TS]

  that that this that the idea that if you [TS]

  are not exactly on language message that [TS]

  you are actually actively working on [TS]

  behalf of forces of conservatism and [TS]

  revanche ism like to be to be off msgs [TS]

  not to be neutral it is to be it is to [TS]

  be immediately working on behalf of evil [TS]

  forces [TS]

  is is a crazy is a crazy place to be [TS]

  it is crazy to be challenged to justify [TS]

  the political message of every message [TS]

  will have to show that you into show in [TS]

  a way that is frankly most of the time [TS]

  extremely hand fisted and not very [TS]

  elegant and certainly not very subtle to [TS]

  prove to everybody through three to five [TS]

  paragraphs that you have done all of [TS]

  your math and can show it that you have [TS]

  that you know it's I feel like there's [TS]

  so much pressure right now in the public [TS]

  discourse for everything to be about [TS]

  everything [TS]

  there's there's there's really I feel [TS]

  like as soon as somebody starts to say [TS]

  if I say something as simple as you know [TS]

  what I just don't like arguing with [TS]

  people on the internet [TS]

  well then then if i'm not arguing with [TS]

  somebody about what it is that they want [TS]

  to argue about that means that i don't [TS]

  want to agree on anything I don't you [TS]

  want to argue about whether i agree with [TS]

  you i just think it's unseemly and it's [TS]

  a thing i don't like doing but by [TS]

  choosing not to do that it makes it seem [TS]

  like I'm a mute member of this class of [TS]

  people who really just actively enjoy [TS]

  seeing people put down and I will not [TS]

  raise my voice that's not the case at [TS]

  all right I i do think i do think that [TS]

  people are really complicated problem [TS]

  and to say something interesting about [TS]

  anything you have to have the right [TS]

  amount of introspection and specificity [TS]

  and you have to talk about a thing at a [TS]

  time when there's a sense what's so [TS]

  confusing about this curl is that she or [TS]

  her a woman whoever it was that that [TS]

  that sent me this tweet that she [TS]

  immediately also felt empowered at to [TS]

  challenge me as though she were my [TS]

  thesis advisor you know she was not she [TS]

  wasn't coming from a place of her of [TS]

  intellectual humility or a place of even [TS]

  like I admire you [TS]

  her her her tone and her her approach [TS]

  was immediately like for lack of a [TS]

  better term matriarchal or or like she [TS]

  was coming to me with superior wisdom [TS]

  right that she had read something that [TS]

  no one else perceived or that i was [TS]

  unaware she was revealing [TS]

  cataract he didn't know you had yeah she [TS]

  was here now to as you as as we agree [TS]

  that the the operative term she was here [TS]

  to reeducation me from a place i mean [TS]

  and i think backed up by the by the [TS]

  authority of the party when i whenever I [TS]

  hear that word I because i used to use [TS]

  that word in that same kind of context [TS]

  it was a very common thing in the [TS]

  liberal community to say for many many [TS]

  years is that really this is just a [TS]

  problem of education we the thing is [TS]

  people would be better about not wasting [TS]

  natural resources if they're just more [TS]

  educated was promised in education and [TS]

  the thing is what what people said that [TS]

  about you [TS]

  like what if people said the problem is [TS]

  the thing that you need to understand [TS]

  about everything that's wrong with your [TS]

  political beliefs is it or you're [TS]

  whatever you're wherever your beliefs [TS]

  are is just a little it's just a [TS]

  question of Education yeah you just [TS]

  don't you just don't have the [TS]

  information that we have real and so all [TS]

  the times you get into an argument at a [TS]

  sports bar with some jackass who's [TS]

  trying to tell you that the kids [TS]

  shouldn't kids shouldn't be immunized [TS]

  and you know and for that matter women [TS]

  should be in the home or whatever it is [TS]

  chemtrails well it but really just [TS]

  anything that you believe when you as [TS]

  soon as you start telling people that [TS]

  it's a matter of education I think you [TS]

  lose a little bit of your intellectual [TS]

  authority because at that point you're [TS]

  what you're saying is I will sit here [TS]

  and and patiently listen to what you [TS]

  have to say until I get the opportunity [TS]

  to show you how you are fundamentally [TS]

  wrong and that you will never be able to [TS]

  advance intellectually until you accept [TS]

  what it is that I know is true it's just [TS]

  a matter of education but 22 sounds like [TS]

  fucking Pol Pot the 20 books that i have [TS]

  read from the age of sixteen to twenty [TS]

  eleven by the same author the sum of [TS]

  some of which were in a my high school [TS]

  syllabus some of them were my college [TS]

  syllabus some of them i found through [TS]

  friends but those you know 20 to 30 [TS]

  books that i have really your red and [TS]

  digested are the sum total of human [TS]

  knowledge and the 20 or 30 books that [TS]

  you've read some of which overlap mine [TS]

  probably a lot of them do we both [TS]

  probably read The Great Gatsby [TS]

  so let's say you know the thirty percent [TS]

  of the books of the 20 to 30 books that [TS]

  you've read uh and and also your [TS]

  intellectual process in digesting them [TS]

  somehow led you so astray [TS]

  whereas the 20 to 30 books that I've [TS]

  read have given me this like this like [TS]

  diamond tip insight into the whole human [TS]

  condition [TS]

  I I let me do one of the things that [TS]

  there with what that person said which I [TS]

  mean I can understand that [TS]

  I mean if I have somebody I mean as much [TS]

  as we kid and stuff on here when people [TS]

  say like super like racially offensive [TS]

  things and are obviously like just [TS]

  dropping dropping science on you about [TS]

  how the world is and that bugs me you [TS]

  know i don't want to be around that [TS]

  sure but you know first of all I'm not [TS]

  sure what I can do to necessarily turn [TS]

  that person around that I've never met [TS]

  but you know what with what that woman [TS]

  said i would be even though i would [TS]

  never do this publicly but I would be [TS]

  inclined to say so you decided you don't [TS]

  want to write songs for being a band [TS]

  because of what i said well no of course [TS]

  not [TS]

  okay why is that well because I'm [TS]

  smarter than that I know okay so you [TS]

  assume that all these other people that [TS]

  you theoretically care about this mass [TS]

  of people that are so stupid and [TS]

  malleable that these words that I chosen [TS]

  this ese are going to make them not want [TS]

  to start a band is that is that the case [TS]

  that you're going to make because all [TS]

  the sudden now you're the one who's [TS]

  smarter than all these other people [TS]

  because you see you see through the [TS]

  matrix right you that they live thing [TS]

  where you've got the sunglasses right [TS]

  and that's what i think is actually it's [TS]

  a little it's a little bit offensive [TS]

  because you get to pick and choose like [TS]

  who you get to decide you're smarter [TS]

  than and it's really just a question of [TS]

  going in educating everybody about all [TS]

  these little people that need to be [TS]

  looked after in this completely [TS]

  paternalistic way this is what's so [TS]

  interesting about what's happening in [TS]

  France right now with the with the guide [TS]

  on the lady a guy doctor lady in front [TS]

  of I think the president was having [TS]

  intercourse with someone who wasn't his [TS]

  wife [TS]

  Oh see that happens a lot there no that [TS]

  doesn't interest me at all know that so [TS]

  the whole the whole notion of French [TS]

  identity in sort of the the whole [TS]

  history of France post-revolution was [TS]

  the french said we don't see race [TS]

  we don't know if you come to France and [TS]

  adopt the french language and learn the [TS]

  French culture you are a Frenchman and [TS]

  it doesn't matter if you were born in [TS]

  Algeria or in Vietnam we the the idea of [TS]

  a Frenchman of a other of a citizen of [TS]

  France is that you adopt the these these [TS]

  the following premises that you know [TS]

  that the the the citizen has life [TS]

  liberty and the gala tea and that we are [TS]

  all equal under the law and you know a [TS]

  lot of notions in France that came from [TS]

  the American Revolution a lot of notions [TS]

  in France that are internal to France [TS]

  but that there is a French identity that [TS]

  supersedes all other cultural racial [TS]

  economic identities and that for 200 [TS]

  years has been the core of the of what i [TS]

  meant to be French and and and in a way [TS]

  it was the most democratic notion of [TS]

  citizenship you think most people [TS]

  believe that I think in France they [TS]

  really do including people who are not [TS]

  Gallic white people absolutely i mean [TS]

  this is this is a this is the and this [TS]

  is francis version of the melting pot [TS]

  you know America's version of the [TS]

  melting pot is show up now you're an [TS]

  American and you and anybody can become [TS]

  a million work hard and play by the [TS]

  rules [TS]

  that's right and all over and [TS]

  everybody's vote and it's fair here and [TS]

  so you can be anybody could be President [TS]

  you know that's the american version the [TS]

  French version is is maybe [TS]

  understandably more identity-based like [TS]

  it isn't just that you that anybody can [TS]

  be President it is that we are all now [TS]

  equal under the idea that we are that we [TS]

  are Frenchmen like we are brothers and [TS]

  sisters brothers and sisters right and [TS]

  political politically brothers and [TS]

  sisters you know I it's a very it's it's [TS]

  a super seductive idea to them and it's [TS]

  the core of the whole idea i mean when [TS]

  we we only look at it from outside and a [TS]

  lot of it seems a lot of it is kind of [TS]

  the the French pomposity and the that [TS]

  the arrogance like the this is the this [TS]

  is the sunny side of that you know that [TS]

  this is the this is what's beautiful [TS]

  about being French but as in the last 20 [TS]

  years there have been these massive [TS]

  waves of immigration to France and the [TS]

  French have been wrestling with how to [TS]

  maintain this thing that is so key to [TS]

  them and it's like it is it's like a [TS]

  religion to them which you would you [TS]

  also include the things like language [TS]

  and trying to lock down on things like [TS]

  love facts i mean the effect of running [TS]

  the French language to stay intact as [TS]

  part of that for sure [TS]

  languages key is is the is the heart of [TS]

  it it's the key to and so their approach [TS]

  to immigration has always been welcome [TS]

  thank you for coming to France here is [TS]

  your book of becoming French it involves [TS]

  you now speaking French and thinking [TS]

  French and at home I suppose if you want [TS]

  to keep eating couscous here that is [TS]

  fine here are here is a recipe book of [TS]

  how to make your couscous taste more [TS]

  french but in the meantime we are happy [TS]

  to have you here and we are going to do [TS]

  everything we can to create a a a racist [TS]

  society [TS]

  assuming of course that you're not a [TS]

  gypsy or a Jew but let's leave that [TS]

  aside but actually we welcome the Jews [TS]

  now still a little weird on the gypsies [TS]

  but [TS]

  as as successive waves of people have [TS]

  emigrated from North Africa now all of a [TS]

  sudden they're these gigantic ghettos [TS]

  where the population is largely arab and [TS]

  muslim and so the French have been going [TS]

  through this whole uh this this [TS]

  incredible identity like the national [TS]

  cultural identity problem where they're [TS]

  like well we can't have people walking [TS]

  around in burkas because it's not French [TS]

  it isn't a question of that we are a [TS]

  racist against Muslims or anti-muslim [TS]

  but but the goal in France is that we [TS]

  all be French it is how we manage [TS]

  equality it is our whole idea of [TS]

  equality that we all be not the same but [TS]

  that we share the same values that but [TS]

  that we all be primarily French right [TS]

  now [TS]

  well that we share these cause these [TS]

  core values which are you know this is [TS]

  kind of it that there's a similar [TS]

  argument happening in America except we [TS]

  don't share core values here but there [TS]

  they have these core democratic [TS]

  post-revolution values they they think [TS]

  they do or they it's their values are [TS]

  are are closer to the heart of the idea [TS]

  of themselves this shared sense of [TS]

  values and it's you know it is a at well [TS]

  so it has driven them now to pass a law [TS]

  against wearing burkas and from an [TS]

  American sensibility we're you know that [TS]

  law that that you can't wear a burka in [TS]

  France and in a public school or in a in [TS]

  an office like a government office we [TS]

  just Americans freak out at the notion [TS]

  and it seems very paternalistic and it [TS]

  seems very racist [TS]

  it seems i want a paternalistic it's [TS]

  totalitarian right to tell taryn but [TS]

  from the French standpoint it is like [TS]

  they are trying to us it its full from [TS]

  the French idea it is a very liberal [TS]

  idea this is what's confusing the [TS]

  liberal notion of like French liberalism [TS]

  requires that everybody aspire to be [TS]

  part of this family and to be outside of [TS]

  it seems to them to be a active [TS]

  totalitarianism or to be an act of [TS]

  hostility that threatens the whole that [TS]

  threatens the safety of their of them of [TS]

  their melting pot right if you don't if [TS]

  you don't want to melt into being French [TS]

  like being French is at is at the key of [TS]

  having all the rights of man that that [TS]

  that that you can bend therefore not [TS]

  expect like you can't expect the rights [TS]

  if you don't also perform the duties and [TS]

  so they're so their culture is at war [TS]

  with itself right now it's tearing [TS]

  itself apart and it is it it's it is a [TS]

  it's very interesting to look at it from [TS]

  here to look at it from the United [TS]

  States and see that that that there i [TS]

  mean obviously like the lepen people the [TS]

  be a cultural xenophobes in France are [TS]

  are on this issue too but there's a [TS]

  whole stripe of people that you know [TS]

  that are coming at this question from a [TS]

  liberal democratic perspective there [TS]

  that is that's that's very confusing to [TS]

  watch from here and very I think [TS]

  instructive informative [TS]

  yeah I mean I all the lofty ideas are [TS]

  it's easy enough to agree on something [TS]

  like do you believe in freedom of speech [TS]

  of course everybody agrees and freedom [TS]

  of speech and so you get into the [TS]

  specifics of what that really means [TS]

  are you allowed to say things that [TS]

  aren't true are you allowed to say [TS]

  things that are unkind are you allowed [TS]

  to say things that startup hate when [TS]

  people are you you know do I you know [TS]

  the shot fire in a crowded theater [TS]

  yea yea or you know or I think some [TS]

  people would say this could go on really [TS]

  any end of the spectrum versus the other [TS]

  should I be expected to pay to publish [TS]

  speech that I definitely think is is [TS]

  hateful or untrue [TS]

  for example do i right you should we be [TS]

  paying should we be paying to have [TS]

  textbooks in our schools that say [TS]

  evolution is true [TS]

  should we be paying to have textbooks in [TS]

  our school that say that evolution is [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  I mean you know that's right that is i'm [TS]

  probably splitting hairs here but I [TS]

  think anybody agrees on those big issues [TS]

  its just its implementation details but [TS]

  there where you get all the truth [TS]

  well this is why the Supreme Court of [TS]

  the United States and the Congress and [TS]

  the presidency were such a what were [TS]

  such a brilliant idea and you know the [TS]

  idea that the Supreme Court could take a [TS]

  law and set limits on aspects of it you [TS]

  know that that that that that boat the [TS]

  Congress made law it went past the [TS]

  President and he got to you know he got [TS]

  to take a swipe at it if he could but [TS]

  then the citizens to challenge the law [TS]

  and the court could make a well could [TS]

  the court could rule on beat you on [TS]

  behalf of us like the idea that there [TS]

  was an us survived until not very long [TS]

  ago and it's it's a it's a thing as a [TS]

  historical us [TS]

  well yeah and that that where I mean [TS]

  like when it is not kind of what the [TS]

  Supreme Court is it speaking of us but [TS]

  its its kind of to say like is this is [TS]

  this what was intended [TS]

  oh no I mean well you know it that is a [TS]

  modern problem that the Supreme Court [TS]

  was always meant to be in it was always [TS]

  meant to evolve and the idea that the [TS]

  founders didn't intend that the court [TS]

  would interpret the conversation in [TS]

  modern terms is a crazy conservative [TS]

  reactionary nut story that the same kind [TS]

  of people think the Bible was written in [TS]

  English yeah right i mean has always had [TS]

  the same 66 books it if you've read [TS]

  anything about the founders the Scalia [TS]

  notion that they meant that this you [TS]

  know that that that that that the [TS]

  founders meant that we should try and [TS]

  get inside their minds and think about [TS]

  what they meant instead of that they [TS]

  meant exactly you know that they met [TS]

  what they wrote and that we should be [TS]

  like interpreting that but based on the [TS]

  fact that we now have handheld computers [TS]

  in our eyeglasses or III health [TS]

  computers are hey al computer it's um [TS]

  like it it seems crazy to me but no I i [TS]

  mean the the evolve and ever-evolving [TS]

  notion that there was an American soul [TS]

  of a kind or that there was an American [TS]

  identity that we were all aspiring to [TS]

  melt into was a notion that was still in [TS]

  place in a largely in place at least in [TS]

  the school's when you and I were kids [TS]

  and it was it was fraying and there were [TS]

  obviously there was a there were whole [TS]

  segments of the population that said [TS]

  we're not even included in that you [TS]

  never included us in that and we want we [TS]

  want entry into it at the time even then [TS]

  that it was only the fringe voices that [TS]

  said we don't want entry into it we want [TS]

  to burn it down [TS]

  we want to tear that identity of park [TS]

  like the vast majority of the [TS]

  disenfranchised only wanted to be [TS]

  franchised [TS]

  and it's only in the last time you have [TS]

  said the same have the same rights that [TS]

  anybody else already had to have to have [TS]

  the same rights and to be included in [TS]

  that notion of American and to be and to [TS]

  have their voices considered and to be [TS]

  to just expand the franchise to include [TS]

  everybody that really was already in it [TS]

  which is something that the French did [TS]

  much better than the Americans did it in [TS]

  the sense that they headaches that they [TS]

  that that franchise was expanded I mean [TS]

  and obviously like the Dreyfus Affair [TS]

  whenever the that they up through the [TS]

  war they were still pretty bad on Jews [TS]

  and and and Roma but the the French of [TS]

  it have sought to expand that franchise [TS]

  a lot more liberally than the Americans [TS]

  did but it's only in the last 20 years [TS]

  that that the idea that that this [TS]

  american-ness even that that that are [TS]

  shared aspirations that a commonality [TS]

  would be something that we would [TS]

  disparage and something that an educated [TS]

  liberal person would want no part of and [TS]

  would would want would instead choose to [TS]

  mock and dried you know that that to sit [TS]

  and talk about a like a an American [TS]

  identity to talk about that as something [TS]

  that is inherently oppressive [TS]

  intrinsically oppressive rather than [TS]

  something that is of a framework that we [TS]

  can make that and we should be trying to [TS]

  make better always and that making it [TS]

  more inclusive is our goal rather than [TS]

  to you know to destroy them to destroy [TS]

  the framework in favor of who you are [TS]

  implying who are you saying once that or [TS]

  has been doing that [TS]

  I don't like the far right wing nut [TS]

  types [TS]

  well like going to the compound kind of [TS]

  people I feel like that I feel like [TS]

  there is a huge go to the cops [TS]

  there is a huge go to the cops [TS]

  pound thread in liberalism now although [TS]

  it isn't to the compound it is to a [TS]

  place of like a place of hyper [TS]

  multiculturalism to the point that all [TS]

  that it is that it's like george bush's [TS]

  thousand points of light except that [TS]

  thousand points of light is a thousand [TS]

  equal viewpoints none of which can be [TS]

  privileged over any other so that it is [TS]

  a so that every voice is heard in equal [TS]

  volume and in that constellation of [TS]

  voices there will be some collected [TS]

  wisdom there will be some there were [TS]

  there will be a common knowledge or [TS]

  understanding that we can we cannot know [TS]

  yet we cannot know the result of this [TS]

  experiment until it we have achieved it [TS]

  and to guess at it is to second-guess it [TS]

  which is which is to stand in the way of [TS]

  it and that are that the only valid goal [TS]

  can be a time when all voices are [TS]

  represented with with no privilege and [TS]

  this is the idea of this of the word [TS]

  privilege can and and and and flinging [TS]

  privilege at people as an epithet that [TS]

  this is this is the liberal side of this [TS]

  yeah that only when we arrive at a place [TS]

  where no voice has pride of privileged [TS]

  no voices heard more loudly than any [TS]

  other can we fully know ourselves or [TS]

  have a tour or be close to achieving [TS]

  like a understanding human understanding [TS]

  or collective wisdom and it's a it's the [TS]

  what I think is the under girding idea [TS]

  of this you know this this like [TS]

  Quasimodo axis to move on up on the part [TS]

  of the intellectual world in American [TS]

  Left intellectual life [TS]

  to always be attacking privilege to [TS]

  always be second-guessing language to [TS]

  always be equalizing voices the the only [TS]

  premise and it's an unspoken premise no [TS]

  one ever discusses it openly but the [TS]

  only premise I can see at the heart of [TS]

  it is the idea that only once all voices [TS]

  are heard only was all voices are equal [TS]

  can we know can we even know what our [TS]

  project is & big because as you as you [TS]

  as you see any time someone stands up [TS]

  and says i have an opinion the first [TS]

  question is what right do you have to [TS]

  speak who are you are you are going on [TS]

  his on his billiard behalf key to speak [TS]

  right are you just another middle-class [TS]

  white person because we've heard what [TS]

  you have to say and it you know it is a [TS]

  blanket dismissal of antenna and the [TS]

  reality is what any one person has to [TS]

  say is in a lot of ways [TS]

  irrespective of what their races or [TS]

  their classes right i mean the world of [TS]

  ideas the whole premise of it is that it [TS]

  can exist in one's mind that yes is [TS]

  influenced by its by its culture yes is [TS]

  influenced by its experience but also [TS]

  that's the beautiful thing about an idea [TS]

  you can have an idea that is in conflict [TS]

  with how you were raised with how you [TS]

  were how you other the culture in which [TS]

  you live it's how ideas [TS]

  advertise themselves like I can think of [TS]

  opposite of me and that's what makes it [TS]

  a thought right and to to argue that my [TS]

  thoughts are are all water stamped with [TS]

  my race and culture is to be [TS]

  anti-intellectual I guess [TS]

  at its core and what thats whats in [TS]

  that's what's insane about about this [TS]

  notion is that ultimately it is it is [TS]

  anti thinking and it you know it becomes [TS]

  like it it's seeking to kill this idea [TS]

  that you can be that there's something [TS]

  about being French or about being [TS]

  American that is that's worth preserving [TS]

  or that is an identity that that has [TS]

  responsibilities as well as rights [TS]

  attended to it that every right has a [TS]

  has a concomitant responsibility that [TS]

  goes along with it [TS]

  hmm i don't know i'm john pretty I'm [TS]

  pretty skeptical about first of all I I [TS]

  I feel like if you look at any anytime [TS]

  that people who are in a minority and RB [TS]

  being treated poorly end up getting out [TS]

  of that there has to be a period along [TS]

  what did stalin calling you know there's [TS]

  that period where you at the the shit [TS]

  was called the dictatorship of the [TS]

  proletariat what they called it there's [TS]

  a period like okay we have the [TS]

  dictatorship of the proletariat there's [TS]

  going to be this period i gotta let you [TS]

  guys know things are going to be a [TS]

  little bit rough here in the Soviet [TS]

  Union while we make sure that we get [TS]

  good and Soviet Union [TS]

  yeah let's say 30 million dead but ok no [TS]

  no i'm not i'm not trying to draw that [TS]

  line exactly what I'm saying that I [TS]

  think if you look at any group you have [TS]

  to be radicalized at some point in order [TS]

  to get noticed and in order to be heard [TS]

  in order to attract people to [TS]

  understanding hangs this is kind of this [TS]

  is real screwed-up people are people [TS]

  getting lynched like innocent innocent [TS]

  people are being lynched for no reason [TS]

  and like that's it that we have to stop [TS]

  this guy's this is that this is a [TS]

  terrible thing and so there's a period [TS]

  where you have to set yourself apart and [TS]

  and be heard and but I don't know and [TS]

  this is maybe this is the privilege [TS]

  talking but I feel like there are there [TS]

  are so many people who cannot wait to [TS]

  lose their own identity inside of some [TS]

  bigger group because that's where they [TS]

  feel like they did the identity that [TS]

  they seek [TS]

  fine ironically enough is by being in [TS]

  the group that's shouting everybody else [TS]

  down and you know is 011 him while I [TS]

  understand I understand I understand and [TS]

  respect the need to be heard and have [TS]

  your needs redressed however you decide [TS]

  to do it [TS]

  I've always I'm always a little bit [TS]

  skeptical of people who seem to be [TS]

  getting addicted to being the underdog [TS]

  because i'm not sure that is an [TS]

  empowering approach to life [TS]

  well my people were super white trash so [TS]

  I don't know what you're talking about [TS]

  oh you have people to my super white [TS]

  trash people just like basically had to [TS]

  do it all themselves well look both my [TS]

  parents were addicted to super fun and I [TS]

  had to raise myself inside of my own [TS]

  diaper super fun you know about you guys [TS]

  probably had cocaine we can do for [TS]

  cooking we had super fun super fun [TS]

  yeah yeah there's a pencil shavings and [TS]

  coop you snorted it or I shot it didn't [TS]

  matter didn't do anything to ruin their [TS]

  lives [TS]

  you know there are 300 million Americans [TS]

  and that is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of [TS]

  the people in the world really a small [TS]

  number of people like two percent so my [TS]

  point now [TS]

  no I can't be right I'm not doing math [TS]

  well there's a six billion people right [TS]

  yeah I think closer to seven and in all [TS]

  of in a it and I and I really think that [TS]

  that at least right now that we America [TS]

  has stopped manufacturing cars really [TS]

  except for chrysler i don't know i think [TS]

  about the possibilities let's extract [TS]

  some for Christ's yeah I heard her I [TS]

  heard the measure radiant and I thought [TS]

  I was having a stroke they put their [TS]

  potential is there something more [TS]

  American than America but i don't think [TS]

  so i don't think so how the turnout was [TS]

  a dignified ah he looked a little [TS]

  plastic surgery but his face was and he [TS]

  can space was super init bobtailing and [TS]

  his face we're talking about chrysler in [TS]

  a commercial [TS]

  yeah he looked like his face looked like [TS]

  a change purse that simple [TS]

  why don't you remember when he wouldn't [TS]

  even let people use his songs first up [TS]

  yeah that those days are gone but but I [TS]

  mean even with that [TS]

  yeah like calendar let's make your car [TS]

  because will is anything more American [TS]

  than America even that is really what [TS]

  we're exporting his ideas and the Act [TS]

  the ideas and the the the bullshit that [TS]

  we are coming up with in terms of energy [TS]

  entertainment infotainment and this [TS]

  amusement and the info musn't and this [TS]

  huge fire hose of ideas that we are just [TS]

  spraying into the air like being the [TS]

  entirety of it is a product of the [TS]

  privilege that we have scraped and [TS]

  stolen from the rest of the world like [TS]

  we have created hey a salon in this [TS]

  country out of some some shit we found [TS]

  on the ground when we got here that we [TS]

  that we that we killed the people that [TS]

  were here already and took and then all [TS]

  the raping that we do the daily daily [TS]

  cultural raping that we do we have [TS]

  created a salon where we are producing [TS]

  chrysler ads angry birds and a like [TS]

  Sheila booth movies when you put it that [TS]

  way and I'm so like criticism from [TS]

  within here seems so like so much a [TS]

  product I mean it's all still in the [TS]

  ship down like all all of the cultural [TS]

  criticism all of the angry Twitter [TS]

  yelling it's all in the same fountain of [TS]

  of like language culture we are [TS]

  we are deriving me where we are we are [TS]

  producing on behalf of the world right [TS]

  now in this moment in time and a hundred [TS]

  fifty years from now we may be speaking [TS]

  Indonesian here and that all may be gone [TS]

  up and right now it seems like we [TS]

  ourselves to be digesting it as [TS]

  open-mindedly as possible the stuff that [TS]

  we're making the ideas that we're having [TS]

  it seems like an incredible missed [TS]

  opportunity to not be adopting and [TS]

  espousing the most open-minded possible [TS]

  way of thinking as a group of people and [TS]

  as a culture because we are you know [TS]

  where we're in a rare moment we're all [TS]

  we're being asked to do is generate [TS]

  ideas all we are responsible for is [TS]

  making words and ideas and games and [TS]

  plays and to be to be turning on [TS]

  ourselves and you know hyper nitpicking [TS]

  looking for a grammar of of equality [TS]

  when every idea could be in play every [TS]

  single notion is up in the air its it is [TS]

  a it's a strange impulse and one that I [TS]

  don't know it's very human but and and [TS]

  when you have them we spend your day [TS]

  looking for that grammar of equality [TS]

  something else is gonna happen when you [TS]

  talked about before which is the bad [TS]

  words problem and so we all we all agree [TS]

  or are compelled to agree that there are [TS]

  is this increasing corpus of bad words [TS]

  these things we must never use or we [TS]

  must always use Oh bad ideas are are the [TS]

  are the real scary thing right but the [TS]

  bad ideas and the problems I'm trying to [TS]

  get at though is you can continue to to [TS]

  your southern sheriff speak around your [TS]

  buddies and that's not gonna do a damn [TS]

  thing except you make you feel more and [TS]

  more like you're the one who's [TS]

  marginalized now it's for everybody [TS]

  are all of our friends over here on the [TS]

  left side of the dial there are just as [TS]

  many people on the other side who are [TS]

  just as incredulous about how they've [TS]

  been left behind [TS]

  yeah and and that just we just keep we [TS]

  just keep making that split like broader [TS]

  and broader when we keep saying which [TS]

  ideas are ok to think the idea that's [TS]

  curious to me right now is that football [TS]

  is this terrible crime that we are [TS]

  inflicting on football players right [TS]

  that football is violent which is like a [TS]

  new idea i guess to some people that had [TS]

  permanently like well yeah and that [TS]

  these and that these football players [TS]

  are being for our amusement [TS]

  this is the beginning of every one of [TS]

  these sort of screens for our for the [TS]

  amusement of some rich corporations [TS]

  these football players are being paid [TS]

  millions of dollars to hit each other [TS]

  really hard and then 20 years later they [TS]

  have parkinson's disease and this is a [TS]

  thing that should be outlawed and it the [TS]

  the premise of that argument that this [TS]

  is what this is what confuses me it is [TS]

  like threaded throughout these arguments [TS]

  is a kind of weird it's the same [TS]

  argument that the catholic church uses [TS]

  to fight abortion and the death penalty [TS]

  it is the idea that human life is [TS]

  somehow sacred above and beyond any [TS]

  individual human life and what that [TS]

  human life actually is or represents but [TS]

  that the I that the that human life [TS]

  capital H capital L is somehow sacred [TS]

  and more important more valuable than it [TS]

  might appear to be in any one instance [TS]

  and so the fact that these football [TS]

  players are hurting themselves and that [TS]

  they do it knowingly [TS]

  and that they do it for great reward and [TS]

  that they are heroes and champions but [TS]

  then later on the they suffer and maybe [TS]

  when maybe when somebody said to them [TS]

  when they were sixteen or twenty like [TS]

  you know someday you're going to suffer [TS]

  maybe they didn't know exactly what that [TS]

  meant and they agreed to something that [TS]

  they couldn't I couldn't possibly have [TS]

  understood all the way implying that the [TS]

  people who gave him that money new to a [TS]

  pretty good certainty that they were [TS]

  going to get right the head injuries are [TS]

  some of the people that give him that [TS]

  money were like actually relishing that [TS]

  one day they were going to have [TS]

  parkinson's disease but that you know [TS]

  and I think about this in terms of [TS]

  Muhammad Ali one of the great champions [TS]

  of Human of the 20th century and human [TS]

  life and human Muhammad Ali is suffering [TS]

  from from a tremor from Parkinson's and [TS]

  a tremor that that we that that kind of [TS]

  shames us and that we wouldn't have [TS]

  wished on him he is our hero but would [TS]

  anyone have had Muhammad Ali not fight [TS]

  would anyone have asked Muhammad Ali to [TS]

  have fought one fight fewer like [TS]

  Muhammad Ali fought he was a hero to the [TS]

  world he's the most recognized name on [TS]

  the planet and and in his later years he [TS]

  suffers the battle damage and the the [TS]

  idea that we would put a stop that the [TS]

  other that we would do anything other [TS]

  than celebrate every aspect of it you [TS]

  know because the fact is we don't know [TS]

  if Muhammad Ali had never boxed whether [TS]

  or not he would have gotten Parkinson's [TS]

  anyway because we don't understand [TS]

  Parkinson's hoo keek you know my my [TS]

  grand aunt died of Parkinson's and she [TS]

  was never in a boxing match [TS]

  so wait now is you're saying so I'm part [TS]

  of that is that we've got information [TS]

  that we didn't have 4050 years ago I [TS]

  sorts of things [TS]

  yes you complete using you're saying it [TS]

  retroactive continuity let's go back and [TS]

  sort of let that's all collectively [TS]

  disparage what boxing has done over the [TS]

  years in order to make sure it never [TS]

  happens again [TS]

  are you saying it so [TS]

  I'm but yeah you don't think that we [TS]

  should take the information we know [TS]

  about things like traumatic brain injury [TS]

  and try to prevent it [TS]

  well I don't have heavier guys hitting [TS]

  harder you know I would see what seems [TS]

  to me is that I me know when i'm in [TS]

  brooklyn now and every kid under the age [TS]

  of 14 is wearing a bicycle helmet to go [TS]

  to the store and not even on a bicycle [TS]

  the parents are just putting their [TS]

  putting helmets on him just to go out [TS]

  the door because of what we think we [TS]

  know about traumatic brain injury and [TS]

  how dangerous the world is like [TS]

  ultimately the world is dangerous human [TS]

  life is nasty brutish and short we not [TS]

  one of us dies the way we would want [TS]

  there is no way for us to live forever [TS]

  there is no way for us to escape disease [TS]

  there is no way for us to escape injury [TS]

  and yet in these certain pockets of of [TS]

  what it is to be human [TS]

  we suddenly described all this injustice [TS]

  to certain kinds of injuries to certain [TS]

  kinds of disease to certain kinds of [TS]

  misfortune and by ascribing injustice to [TS]

  it it doesn't mean that those things [TS]

  actually are in just it's just that [TS]

  we've described injustice to them and [TS]

  and so the traumatic brain injury that a [TS]

  football player receives is now a source [TS]

  of all this this conversation to the [TS]

  effect that maybe we should ban [TS]

  football-playing but the traumatic brain [TS]

  injury of all the US soldiers that are [TS]

  just receiving brain injury as a result [TS]

  of bombs going off around them all the [TS]

  time [TS]

  that's a conversation that we're tabling [TS]

  for now and the fact that people get [TS]

  traumatic brain injury all the time just [TS]

  driving in their cars or playing on the [TS]

  playground [TS]

  is a thing that we cannot describe an [TS]

  injustice to so we just accept as part [TS]

  of life and the reality is we all die so [TS]

  soon and that human life actually is not [TS]

  that precious you know and that every [TS]

  death is a tragedy to the people [TS]

  standing immediately in the vicinity of [TS]

  it but as you get further away from any [TS]

  one particular death in either time or [TS]

  geography that death recedes and [TS]

  importance until right now there are [TS]

  hundreds of thousands of people dying [TS]

  all around the world of various causes [TS]

  some of them incredibly in just but none [TS]

  of us are thinking about them or have [TS]

  the capacity to think about them and [TS]

  what what what confuses me is that [TS]

  sometimes we will decide that one [TS]

  person's life or a small group of [TS]

  people's lives have this sanctity all of [TS]

  a sudden and that their deaths are so in [TS]

  just because we imagine that the that [TS]

  the there's injustice in the prematurity [TS]

  of their death that their debt their [TS]

  lives could have been prolonged or that [TS]

  that the you know that the the deaths [TS]

  are the product of some conspiracy and [TS]

  it's never a question of like that [TS]

  person's you know like James [TS]

  Gandolfini's death is a tragedy because [TS]

  of all the movies he didn't make and I i [TS]

  saw a movie with him the other day and I [TS]

  was like that makes me sad his death is [TS]

  a tragedy i wish i had seen some movies [TS]

  he made but some more movies that he [TS]

  made but really no James Gandolfini died [TS]

  when he died and he did what he did and [TS]

  there isn't a tragic element to it [TS]

  ultimately its it is a it in a way there [TS]

  is no tragedy because [TS]

  all things are happening as they are [TS]

  happening you know it's it is a trick of [TS]

  the mind to think that really that there [TS]

  is such a thing as injustice and it [TS]

  isn't to say that that trick of the mind [TS]

  isn't real and that we don't live in a [TS]

  world where that trick of the mind is as [TS]

  real to us as anything but it is a [TS]

  technology of the mind it's an it's up [TS]

  it's an idea a mental process that we [TS]

  don't investigate we we just think we [TS]

  accept the notion that but there are [TS]

  tragic deaths and the more boxes we can [TS]

  take off prevent to bowl a violent [TS]

  uncool somebody else profited you know [TS]

  we're checking up all these boxes in on [TS]

  the injustice checklist and we will [TS]

  check out enough of them and it's like [TS]

  this is an injustice and this other one [TS]

  is more just and then that one is a [TS]

  righteous longer whatever and it's just [TS]

  like it's all part of a it's all part of [TS]

  a game we're playing with ourselves that [TS]

  we're not that we don't reflect on my [TS]

  guess is my only comment on it and I [TS]

  wish we did [TS]

  is this another one [TS]

  not gonna put out yeah but this 1i have [TS]

  to be so bad [TS]