Roderick on the Line

Ep. 98: "A Mastiff of Spinach"


  hello hey John I Merlin how's it going [TS]

  oh it's so early yeah it's really early [TS]

  it's early i I've never seen you use [TS]

  your phone so early [TS]

  I don't think well they say sick I i am [TS]

  sick [TS]

  god I have a kind of sickness that is [TS]

  that is a drug sickness who i am on my [TS]

  third day of caffeine withdrawal [TS]

  oh my god and hear the real girl and I [TS]

  oh no i woke up at seven in the morning [TS]

  with shippers and I feel like I was in a [TS]

  car wreck [TS]

  I feel like I feel like I rolled a car [TS]

  that's at every every muscle and joint [TS]

  in my body [TS]

  it's like really really protesting oh my [TS]

  goodness this is you sure you're up for [TS]

  this [TS]

  no yeah my god you know I like to I like [TS]

  to get into the center of the pain [TS]

  explore all I am I am the I'm the the [TS]

  seven blind men describing an elephant [TS]

  and pain [TS]

  Wow uh so when was the last time you [TS]

  quit caffeine just cold turkey [TS]

  well um my gosh i have i've tried to cut [TS]

  down but net I it's been awhile since I [TS]

  just said I'm not going to have any [TS]

  caffeine at all this morning [TS]

  yeah and I its [TS]

  I've done in the past and its really [TS]

  hard and a little crazy [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  are you feeling any psychological [TS]

  effects oh yes oh very irritated i am [TS]

  very irritated [TS]

  it's the thing is it's a i like it so [TS]

  well documented i guess but there are [TS]

  all kinds of effects you know it's gonna [TS]

  be with caffeine to begin with even on [TS]

  the best day is a balance even when you [TS]

  go pro still got you have good days and [TS]

  bad days and what's what's funny to me [TS]

  about caffeine is the like the effects [TS]

  of having too much coffee can be kind of [TS]

  similar to the effects of having no [TS]

  coffee but minus the energy like [TS]

  irritability little bit little bit of a [TS]

  headache [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah well let me bit you know [TS]

  I'm a caffeine ranger and I i use [TS]

  caffeine to explore all the universes [TS]

  and I i have quit a few times over the [TS]

  years and I and I know what's in store [TS]

  you know when I say like okay like i've [TS]

  got i've been to the edge and I steps [TS]

  student look down and I need to cut it i [TS]

  need to cut it out and I and i know i'm [TS]

  looking forward to like a solid three [TS]

  days of gotten it out and each day has [TS]

  its phases and the you'd you would think [TS]

  that by the third day it would be [TS]

  tapering off but really the third days [TS]

  the is the toughest one for me and then [TS]

  on day four like you you you walk out [TS]

  into the clear like you're right you're [TS]

  out into the day again but but i don't [TS]

  know whether it's my age or whether i [TS]

  was using come i was using a well over [TS]

  the prescribed dosages of of Captain for [TS]

  a long time but I fucked really woke up [TS]

  this morning [TS]

  in a title match with with my nerve [TS]

  ending this but I'm laughing but I'm so [TS]

  sorry I I know what you're talking about [TS]

  I mean there's a reason that excedrin [TS]

  puts caffeine in with the aspirin in [TS]

  that that's what they recommend when you [TS]

  got a migraine because i think it fits [TS]

  your capillaries or whatever but it's it [TS]

  it definitely can help you get rid of a [TS]

  headache and if you don't have it as [TS]

  little fella just close right up [TS]

  yeah yeah whoo so can we explore this a [TS]

  little bit you pulled up your [TS]

  three-legged stool [TS]

  yeah absolutely you're sitting in the [TS]

  center of it all the lights are on [TS]

  oh how well so this caffeine withdrawal [TS]

  is a part it's a component of a larger [TS]

  project a larger three-day project which [TS]

  is that I am honored choose fast thing [TS]

  which i find ridiculous on its pace [TS]

  through the tickets have you been really [TS]

  Family Circle no wednesday was never [TS]

  about that even the limit is the lemon [TS]

  juice recoup alot i have no idea why I'm [TS]

  doing it [TS]

  what the point of it is but it was [TS]

  suggested to me and I said oh sure i can [TS]

  do a three day juice fast once i love [TS]

  juice unless I mean let's just let's [TS]

  start with an obvious one you you're [TS]

  working on your body you got some body [TS]

  work and and you enjoy a challenge [TS]

  that's right you're not against juice [TS]

  no I dived i was reading it i was [TS]

  reading Martha Stewart's living about [TS]

  all the healthy juices that you can make [TS]

  from your from your orchards and I i own [TS]

  a juicer because at one point of the [TS]

  long winters did did some some extensive [TS]

  touring with the band keen and they [TS]

  always had a juicer in there backstage [TS]

  area and we would get we would get off [TS]

  of these like long brutal drives across [TS]

  Europe and we would roll into these [TS]

  stadium shows and there would be this [TS]

  juicer [TS]

  waiting as soon as we got out of the van [TS]

  and we would make these complex chooses [TS]

  with ginger and lemon [TS]

  we just felt like superstars and so when [TS]

  I got done with that too i was like i'm [TS]

  gonna get a juicer that's how and that's [TS]

  how a man lives if you are if you're a [TS]

  real like operator if you're a guy that [TS]

  is that knows how to tie a tie you [TS]

  should have a juicer at your house and [TS]

  make you feel vital it just fills you [TS]

  with nutrients it goes you with [TS]

  nutrients well or it fills you with [TS]

  sugar water I mean I what I can't figure [TS]

  how about juices like so I'm making [TS]

  these juices and they are very [TS]

  complicated i went to the store I bought [TS]

  all this spinach and kale and and and [TS]

  carrots and move ginger and you know [TS]

  garlic and basil and all this stuff and [TS]

  beets beet green definitely miss the [TS]

  coffee at all that sounds wonderful [TS]

  well and I'm so I'm throwing it all [TS]

  looks legit she could pick up the day at [TS]

  we kick off the day with some hot lemon [TS]

  water [TS]

  hmm now that the pipes movement m and [TS]

  I'm better but I'm throwing this stuff [TS]

  into the juicer i'm watching all the [TS]

  actual food just get shunted off into [TS]

  the garbage bag and what's left is this [TS]

  concentrated like purple sugar water [TS]

  basically and I it's like the only bill [TS]

  it's like build you put it i mean if you [TS]

  want to make spinach juice it takes an [TS]

  extraordinary amount of spinach to make [TS]

  a tiny little you know you know when you [TS]

  cook spinach it just all kind of [TS]

  disappears but when you don't use it [TS]

  I mean that doesn't it take like what [TS]

  like a whole giant basket to make like a [TS]

  half a cup [TS]

  yeah I put in the equivalent of what of [TS]

  a mastiff into the juicers like a [TS]

  mastiff of it a basket of spinach and [TS]

  and yeah it produces like 22 ounces of [TS]

  wheatgrass juice that's like six bucks [TS]

  and I go okay i mean i guess that I'm [TS]

  getting some but but but i'm really not [TS]

  getting much out of it i mean it's i'm [TS]

  probably it's probably what 600 calories [TS]

  a day of of juice just because i think [TS]

  part of the part of the juice fast part [TS]

  of why it works is that it's so fucking [TS]

  complicated to make the juice and clean [TS]

  the juicer you don't want to do it more [TS]

  than a couple of times a day and so [TS]

  you're basically just you're just [TS]

  starving yourself and taking some sugar [TS]

  water in the interim [TS]

  you're not gonna believe the timing on [TS]

  this here you're not going to believe [TS]

  how simpatico it makes me because you [TS]

  need you texted me this morning and I [TS]

  was like obviously someone attacks on [TS]

  two counts because he's using his phone [TS]

  at something like eight in the morning [TS]

  and i was i was sleeping in a little bit [TS]

  and i have recently been awakened by a [TS]

  horrific almost medieval grinding sound [TS]

  coming from our kitchen [TS]

  oh because my my family had decided to [TS]

  make some juices this morning why it's [TS]

  real real loud isn't always very loud [TS]

  that machine is a it's a plant killer it [TS]

  is it takes them right out [TS]

  it's phyto killer int a and anyway the [TS]

  point being that then my the the 12 [TS]

  punch was then my daughter came in with [TS]

  a small glass of like a caramel colored [TS]

  liquid and she goes drink this and I was [TS]

  like I heard the noise i'm not thinking [TS]

  that but just like no drink it it's [TS]

  really good and had a little her other [TS]

  14 little straws in it and it was so [TS]

  gross [TS]

  it was it was well i think it was [TS]

  primary was there are some spinach and [TS]

  there was some carrots and but it really [TS]

  really tasted like celery [TS]

  oh that's right they say celery is the [TS]

  juice ruin our oh is that right that's [TS]

  good to hack yeah you put any put celery [TS]

  of any juice and it just ruins because [TS]

  it makes it taste like somewhere like [TS]

  cilantro [TS]

  right exactly yes so I'm feeling it for [TS]

  you I I and I said really i said Elinor [TS]

  that's terrible that's an awful thing to [TS]

  put in my mouth while still laying in [TS]

  bed until spilled on the bed background [TS]

  but and so so what I mean okay seriously [TS]

  though what what led you did you just [TS]

  decide it was just a fun project or you [TS]

  said yeah yeah just my project [TS]

  yeah there's no that you know I the the [TS]

  wall when I think back to the the time [TS]

  that i decided i was going to stop [TS]

  eating wheat and sugar [TS]

  I honestly even a day later could not [TS]

  remember what I was what was motivating [TS]

  me you know like I don't remember the [TS]

  idea that came into my head and I [TS]

  usually remember my motivations but [TS]

  looking back I was like I don't remember [TS]

  why i decided to do this what I'm what [TS]

  is going on with me and it's the same [TS]

  with this juice fast i cannot i cannot [TS]

  tell you how the idea got lodged in my [TS]

  brain I think I read something on and on [TS]

  an airplane [TS]

  I think it was a date with something so [TS]

  many terrible projects start reading by [TS]

  running on an airplane i think i was [TS]

  reading at the in-flight magazine and [TS]

  then i was reading and then there was [TS]

  something snarky in The New Yorker and [TS]

  it just got this idea going like juices [TS]

  huh juices maybe New York magazine had [TS]

  an article about a guy who was running a [TS]

  gym that also was a juicer and it just [TS]

  got in there just the worm got in there [TS]

  and all of a sudden Here I am three days [TS]

  into a juice fast and everything every [TS]

  joint in my body is aching and what I [TS]

  want is I mean name of food I wanted [TS]

  yeah but what I have available to me is [TS]

  like beaches basically it seems like one [TS]

  of those things that they would do like [TS]

  you know i don't know like in the maze [TS]

  in Ireland like this some kind of a [TS]

  prison thing like when they give you the [TS]

  the punishment loaf like they were put [TS]

  on a juice diet because i was just i [TS]

  would have to be honest with you first [TS]

  launch want to applaud you and if this [TS]

  sounds like it could be really good for [TS]

  you but I would find it so hard to look [TS]

  forward to anything in life if I knew it [TS]

  was going to be a day filled with juice [TS]

  well this is the thing when you when you [TS]

  when you stop eating food you realize [TS]

  how many of your projects how many of [TS]

  the reasons that you're going out how [TS]

  many [TS]

  you have the how many come to things [TS]

  that the like pylons that demarcate the [TS]

  obstacle course of your day are just [TS]

  food it's like what do you want to do I [TS]

  don't know what's going downtown well [TS]

  what should we do [TS]

  well let's go to that restaurant well [TS]

  we're not eating food we're eating i'm [TS]

  drinking juice right now I'm sorry to [TS]

  say oh well we could go to that smoothie [TS]

  place [TS]

  yeah but those are smoothies they're not [TS]

  juice really like already i'm already [TS]

  are the most boring person alive i [TS]

  mislike it was bad enough when you when [TS]

  he couldn't have french fries or [TS]

  something but now I mean it's I was [TS]

  gonna say it's like being on a salad [TS]

  dressing diet but it's not it's not even [TS]

  it's not even I I could see myself [TS]

  waking up in the morning go I you know [TS]

  nice cup of like a couple shots of [TS]

  Thousand Island could get me going [TS]

  yeah but it's all it's a lot of work [TS]

  it'sit's it's pretty costly too i think [TS]

  it is as well so I was so the other [TS]

  night [TS]

  22 days into my juice fast the [TS]

  presidents of the united states of [TS]

  america played their annual president's [TS]

  day concert here in Seattle and I got up [TS]

  with them and sang sang a song is on [TS]

  their new record with them and so I got [TS]

  up and sang songs and then they then [TS]

  they launched into new girl [TS]

  well so what we get done singing the [TS]

  song like yeah that was great and then [TS]

  they just like launched into new girl [TS]

  and they're only go go do it do it sing [TS]

  it sing it and so we saying new girl in [TS]

  front of their sold-out crowd which was [TS]

  super fun and then we get off the stage [TS]

  we're hanging out backstage and I'm like [TS]

  oh man I thought that was really amazing [TS]

  but I'm a little bit freaked out a [TS]

  little bit tweaking right now because [TS]

  i'm i'm on a juice fast when you think [TS]

  of that guy's and Chris blue as a very [TS]

  complicated theory about food and he was [TS]

  like well you know actually juices [TS]

  garbage food because it was you know but [TS]

  most of those most of those foods were [TS]

  developed by [TS]

  by human intervention and we've we've [TS]

  robbed all of our foods of their [TS]

  nutrients over the course of the [TS]

  millennium is he a million conspiracy [TS]

  theorist started this he tried to he [TS]

  he's a knowledgeable eating well guy I [TS]

  chris is both things he is extremely [TS]

  knowledgeable and you know and also like [TS]

  he goes on it goes on intellectual [TS]

  journeys where he discovers a new thing [TS]

  and then it becomes kind of like it's [TS]

  tense central to his his way of thinking [TS]

  for example again like nutrition buff [TS]

  yeah he ratings read some interesting [TS]

  books and now he's really interested in [TS]

  in the topic but then Jason [TS]

  fence-sitting are your life good friend [TS]

  Jason been sitting on the couch says [TS]

  yeah well you know i i've done a [TS]

  seven-day Master Cleanse which is that a [TS]

  pooping 17 days of lemon and cayenne [TS]

  pepper but i think it's just lemon and [TS]

  and molasses maybe in the hot water or [TS]

  not no he said not hot water room [TS]

  temperature [TS]

  I'm like seven days of and he's like oh [TS]

  yeah yeah by the fourth day you're [TS]

  really you're here really see and you're [TS]

  seeing dragons you know and you're and [TS]

  yeah he you know he talked about the [TS]

  poop for a little while and I i was i [TS]

  mean certainly I was impressed that my [TS]

  three day juice fast got one up so hard [TS]

  i was i was there was the first time [TS]

  i've even gone out in public and I [TS]

  already just got Smackdown like that's [TS]

  like he didn't even eating and get the [TS]

  high five for electronic bean and cheese [TS]

  fast 03 juice fast that's cute you [TS]

  should try seven-day Master Cleanse we [TS]

  just drink lemon water so it was a it [TS]

  was a little bit like I went home tail [TS]

  between my legs but I stuck with my [TS]

  juice fast I didn't go home and start [TS]

  drinking lemon water molasses and I [TS]

  didn't have a hamburger either so here [TS]

  it is day three and I've got this class [TS]

  here that is full of juice and it's [TS]

  it's really it's it's bright red is the [TS]

  color of cows blood [TS]

  mm it's like I'm drinking a glass of [TS]

  cows blood [TS]

  well you know I think about a nutty [TS]

  system is that sometimes he just kind of [TS]

  stick with the nutty system [TS]

  yes thank you hello that's it's not you [TS]

  know i mean the thing is if you [TS]

  overthink it i mean with any kind of [TS]

  diet or anything like that i think that [TS]

  the way two if by succeed we mean make [TS]

  it through the amount of time that we [TS]

  say we're going to do it and hopefully [TS]

  that same I mean you're gonna do this [TS]

  for months probably but if you said you [TS]

  introduced 45 days seven days something [TS]

  like that then I think you gotta it [TS]

  helps me anyway to get to a place where [TS]

  I'm not thinking about it too much [TS]

  I'm not you know I'm doing what I gotta [TS]

  do but to make it sustainable even for [TS]

  more than two or three days even more [TS]

  than a day we have to get to someplace [TS]

  where it's just kind of routine and [TS]

  you're like well this thing I'm doing I [TS]

  don't know what makes sense you know [TS]

  Jason Finn has given me some things to [TS]

  think about but i'm going to just stick [TS]

  with this and do this thing and then [TS]

  maybe not maybe another time i'll do the [TS]

  lemon diet [TS]

  well that's exactly right and what's [TS]

  amazing about this is that the side [TS]

  effects that usually when I quit [TS]

  caffeine it is that I get super sick [TS]

  like that's how I quit really honestly [TS]

  that's your body responds to a lot of [TS]

  things that's how I quit drinking and [TS]

  drugs [TS]

  it's how I quit smoking cigarettes it's [TS]

  how I like and most my relationships I [TS]

  get really sick and I just go off into a [TS]

  corner to die and then when I when I [TS]

  come back I'm phoenix rising from the [TS]

  ashes [TS]

  I was going to say it's like your body [TS]

  has to burn itself down so it can rise [TS]

  from its own ashes [TS]

  that's right and so what this what's [TS]

  happening right now is this this [TS]

  caffeine withdrawal is just a byproduct [TS]

  of it but but honestly the first thing I [TS]

  thought about when somebody said three [TS]

  day juice fast I was like ooh that would [TS]

  be a tough caffeine burn you mean [TS]

  whatever else was going on no matter how [TS]

  hungry where he your your knees would [TS]

  hurt your fingernails would hurt but [TS]

  when it's over then I'm then I have [TS]

  accomplished this what is actually a [TS]

  pretty daunting task which is this [TS]

  caffeine withdrawal and then I'm gonna [TS]

  like try and stay off of the coffee [TS]

  which is actually a better way to live [TS]

  it really is what I'm not when I don't [TS]

  drink the coffee i am you know you're [TS]

  you're living in the light so so if [TS]

  you're going to go through all this i [TS]

  just don't want to repeat what you're [TS]

  saying but just so I understand you're [TS]

  gonna try and stick with us for a while [TS]

  the juice thing is a temporary thing [TS]

  you'll enjoy you will enjoy your many [TS]

  blood-red juices for a while to get [TS]

  through it but you're thinking you'll [TS]

  probably having gone through this dark [TS]

  night of the soul with coffee you're [TS]

  going to try and just stay off it after [TS]

  this [TS]

  yeah i think so for a while at the right [TS]

  time yeah because I don't like [TS]

  dependency it's the it's the overarching [TS]

  theme of my life I cannot abide [TS]

  dependence and I am dependent on [TS]

  caffeine what makes me uncomfortable [TS]

  I think arguably I don't know in my [TS]

  cultures I think that like historically [TS]

  like smoking cigarettes and drinking [TS]

  coffee [TS]

  it's more than something that everybody [TS]

  does it's kind of like almost like a [TS]

  default like you described with food [TS]

  like what you want to do well let's just [TS]

  meet its kind of like just the thing [TS]

  that you do and if you don't know what [TS]

  to do you have a cup of coffee or smoke [TS]

  cigarette and you don't notice how often [TS]

  that becomes the default not trying to [TS]

  say one way or another good bad or [TS]

  otherwise but you know with coffee you [TS]

  don't notice it [TS]

  I mean once it's gone you really notice [TS]

  how often you had that little hankering [TS]

  and then just knowing you can't have it [TS]

  makes it's so much worse and weird to [TS]

  wear if I'm trying to stop something [TS]

  like long lines of a coffee which I'll [TS]

  do sometimes you're trying to cut down [TS]

  but now but especially from stopping [TS]

  I'll i will want coffee [TS]

  more than anything in the world and i [TS]

  would even want coffee before I would [TS]

  want coffee [TS]

  uh-huh like the idea of waking up and [TS]

  going like oh this is my first day [TS]

  without coffee [TS]

  that's all I'm gonna think about right [TS]

  you know or I remember especially when I [TS]

  was doing the you know the Atkins diet [TS]

  like I never wanted french fries so much [TS]

  in my entire life [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  I go like a go-to place and I get this [TS]

  giant and really honestly [TS]

  physiologically completely satisfying [TS]

  like big bacon burger with no bun with [TS]

  lettuce [TS]

  yeah i mean that's all the food a person [TS]

  needs throughout its like you'll be [TS]

  talking about like you how can have a [TS]

  state without noodles it just doesn't [TS]

  make sense [TS]

  like why would you not have noodles with [TS]

  your steak is just a thing you should do [TS]

  is a gentleman but like and when you [TS]

  know you can't have that it's it's so [TS]

  strange how your brain at least my brain [TS]

  can cook up this this [TS]

  oh I guess anxiety or or kind of like [TS]

  unease about about the possibility that [TS]

  i can't have that it makes me feel very [TS]

  scared [TS]

  oh it's a profound anxiety and this is [TS]

  the this is the this is the number one [TS]

  mind game of quitting all drugs is that [TS]

  the it isn't really the physical [TS]

  addiction that defeats you it is them [TS]

  it's that anxiousness that comes into [TS]

  your mind that says I'm never going to [TS]

  have another french fry [TS]

  I can't live like this right like and [TS]

  what you do with your time right if you [TS]

  spend if you spend a third or half your [TS]

  day drinking and then you don't like how [TS]

  would you do to fill that time you just [TS]

  suddenly go and start volunteering I [TS]

  mean it's a lot of time to fill well I'm [TS]

  you and you can only I had a [TS]

  conversation last night with a guy [TS]

  the middle-aged guy let's say kinda like [TS]

  this one it's kind of like this [TS]

  conversation [TS]

  well I should preface this by saying [TS]

  that I went to see miley cyrus last [TS]

  night was she performing yes I want to [TS]

  see a Miley Cyrus concert last night at [TS]

  the tacoma dome because i got an email [TS]

  from a friend of mine who is working at [TS]

  a sort of a high level in her production [TS]

  and he said you'll never guess what i'm [TS]

  doing now I'm doing you know X for the [TS]

  production of this Miley Cyrus concert [TS]

  do you want to come and i said yes i [TS]

  will come and see this my Miley Cyrus [TS]

  concert because I think mainly because [TS]

  everything that I had everybody every [TS]

  little post-it note in my head that i [TS]

  had about my [TS]

  Cyrus was negative like I don't think I [TS]

  like Miley Cyrus is just as a thing i [TS]

  didn't like hannah montana didn't like [TS]

  that all you think it was catchy i don't [TS]

  well I didn't know anything about it but [TS]

  it's intense [TS]

  I just instinctively didn't like it [TS]

  because when i go into thrift stores i [TS]

  see these little plastic guitar that [TS]

  have hannah montana stickers on them and [TS]

  I go oh that's garbage and I don't think [TS]

  I liked Billy Ray Cyrus although i don't [TS]

  know what that sounds like either but I [TS]

  don't like what it represents [TS]

  even though i don't really know what it [TS]

  represents I just don't like it i didn't [TS]

  like it i didn't like his haircut I [TS]

  didn't like that brand of what i think [TS]

  is that brand of country music people [TS]

  get using that phrase boot scoot it made [TS]

  me uncomfortable [TS]

  I don't like that boot scoot I don't [TS]

  wanna hear that now and so Hannah [TS]

  Montana disney creation just kind of you [TS]

  know it's not like i hate it i just [TS]

  don't like it I don't know anything [TS]

  about it I don't like it I'm going to [TS]

  say about the evidence mounts that like [TS]

  I'm not seeking out information about [TS]

  this enterprise but every new as you say [TS]

  post-it note of information about this [TS]

  is not making me feel positive about [TS]

  this and that accumulates right it does [TS]

  it accumulates and then then Oh Miley [TS]

  Cyrus is reinventing herself now she's a [TS]

  bad girl well I don't like that i don't [TS]

  like that the disney girl is now [TS]

  reinventing herself as a bad girl i just [TS]

  dont thats I don't care about it but I [TS]

  don't I don't [TS]

  it is don't like it and then that [TS]

  performance where she twerked at the [TS]

  finest where she she did a little dance [TS]

  with the finger [TS]

  yeah from finger and stuff yeah right at [TS]

  and she was with the blurred lines guy [TS]

  yes I didn't even see it i just saw it [TS]

  talked about in the in the the [TS]

  chattering culture it was very [TS]

  uncomfortable watch but I didn't like it [TS]

  i didn't like the conversation about it [TS]

  i didn't like the pictures that I saw of [TS]

  it it made me uncomfortable so going [TS]

  into all of that this friend of mine is [TS]

  like you're not going to believe what [TS]

  I'm doing right now i'm working on the [TS]

  miley cyrus tour [TS]

  and i said i will go to this and he said [TS]

  great you got two passes see you at the [TS]

  show and so I spent the afternoon trying [TS]

  to get somebody to go with me to the [TS]

  show and I asked at a handful of friends [TS]

  that are usually game if I want to go [TS]

  see Michael Schenker or if I want to go [TS]

  see a monster truck rally or if I want [TS]

  to go to it you know a motocross race [TS]

  and all of my like go to show buddies [TS]

  were like what no way like it'll be fun [TS]

  it'll be funny we'll go see my Miley [TS]

  Cyrus will be like hilarious and they [TS]

  were like no action absolutely not [TS]

  and there was a different kind of [TS]

  pushback like no I draw the line here [TS]

  there's nothing funny about this and it [TS]

  was this like I can go to a Klan rally [TS]

  or something yeah right like if there [TS]

  was an end and an increased my [TS]

  perception that there was this negative [TS]

  this kind of knee-jerk negative feeling [TS]

  about her this take on her that [TS]

  everybody has that increased my desire [TS]

  to go so that if it was a stormy night [TS]

  last night there was a there were a lot [TS]

  of reasons why it's a you know 45 miles [TS]

  to tacoma lot of reasons why i normally [TS]

  would have said i'm not sure i'm just [TS]

  not going to do this but I was like no [TS]

  you know what I'm going to go see this [TS]

  Miley Cyrus concert because now i'm [TS]

  suspicious i'm suspicious of my own bias [TS]

  against this person because I'm seeing [TS]

  it reflected in all these other people [TS]

  and I'm and I realizing like I don't [TS]

  know anything about miley cyrus why do I [TS]

  feel so strongly that this that this [TS]

  girl who stick your tongue out is like [TS]

  this thing then isn't just bad it's like [TS]

  it's like a despicable and cultural [TS]

  Anathem yeah right so I get in my car [TS]

  and I Drive down there and I and I [TS]

  parking I'm I'm [TS]

  I'm walking to the show and it's just [TS]

  sheets of rain and all around me on the [TS]

  streets are girls dressed very [TS]

  provocatively and they are all I mean I [TS]

  was expecting it to be a bunch of [TS]

  ten-year-olds and you know like hannah [TS]

  montana ten-year-old type of thing and [TS]

  and some and some preteens or whatever [TS]

  but everybody is 20 [TS]

  everywhere I look everyone is 20 years [TS]

  old and they're all dressed like ready [TS]

  sexy but but it's a sister rainstorm a [TS]

  cold rain storm so there's a lot of [TS]

  shrieking and soar high heel running to [TS]

  get to the venue everybody's covering [TS]

  their hair with their plastic bags and [TS]

  I'm walking up i'm in my life I'm well [TS]

  protected in my raincoat and dad hat [TS]

  I'm like I am really I'm really wrong [TS]

  here like this is going to be weird and [TS]

  wrong but i did I made no attempt to [TS]

  look like Claire that your buyers is [TS]

  myself [TS]

  ok by myself actually I was carrying a [TS]

  walking stick that some bells on [TS]

  at first I was worried about that yet in [TS]

  the Hat notice that a jolly little [TS]

  pockets too many Reynolds jingle stick [TS]

  at me and said ah [TS]

  so i get to the venue and I walk in just [TS]

  as she takes the stage and there's a [TS]

  giant you know 10-story tall picture of [TS]

  miley cyrus and the mouth opens on the [TS]

  picture somehow like the the jaw opens [TS]

  in a kind of almost Monty Python right [TS]

  way and a giant tongue unfurls out of [TS]

  the mouth and reveals itself to be a [TS]

  slide and then miley cyrus appears in [TS]

  her own mouth waves to the crowd and [TS]

  then slides down her own giant tongue up [TS]

  to the stage and I'm I'm standing I died [TS]

  i'm standing in a wet raincoat watching [TS]

  this and I'm thinking oh ok [TS]

  what the fuck is this like that is a [TS]

  that's kind of a bad trip almost like [TS]

  that's a that's a heavy that's a heavy [TS]

  trip if I were if this were 20 years ago [TS]

  and and i took my usual regimen of [TS]

  pre-concert hallucinogens I would be [TS]

  really freaking out right now that's a [TS]

  heavy image a lot a lot for the mind to [TS]

  to take in and she starts walking around [TS]

  the stage and I go looking for my [TS]

  looking for my seat and I realize I'm in [TS]

  a stadium and both the average age and [TS]

  the mean age is 24 [TS]

  there's no variation there's no one I [TS]

  mean that i can see no one that is 30 [TS]

  and no one that is 15 [TS]

  it's like I've never I i can't i can't [TS]

  think of a time that I've ever been in a [TS]

  room with with the eight to ten thousand [TS]

  twenty year old girls [TS]

  and they are uh you know really like [TS]

  digging the show and like i said so i [TS]

  get to my seat and it turns out I'm i [TS]

  have a front-row seat you have reserved [TS]

  seating [TS]

  well yeah the myoga she compu a really [TS]

  good see ya my friends just like you [TS]

  here here's your tickets and it's like [TS]

  I'm front row of the of the seating give [TS]

  a beard right now I do have a beer that [TS]

  and i have sort of went uncut hair i was [TS]

  wearing my kim jong ill glasses so I my [TS]

  you know by like north korean [TS]

  functionary classes and then every other [TS]

  aspect of my attire was like basically [TS]

  stern dad they may be checked my jingle [TS]

  stick and i watch this entire show in [TS]

  other amazement at how I mean because my [TS]

  my first instinct every new thing that [TS]

  came out every new set piece every like [TS]

  thing she was pushing my first instinct [TS]

  was oh my god no [TS]

  and then in the course of the tune it [TS]

  was revealed that in fact Miley Cyrus is [TS]

  completely in control of the of every [TS]

  aspect of her presentation in her career [TS]

  she is like overwhelmingly positive [TS]

  everybody in the place is having an [TS]

  overwhelmingly positive time and the the [TS]

  takeaway from the show was like this was [TS]

  the most like in culturally interesting [TS]

  and and dare I say it empowering kind of [TS]

  show of its type that I could ever [TS]

  remember seeing I don't think there was [TS]

  ever a Madonna concert that was that was [TS]

  this casually empowering you know it was [TS]

  extraordinary [TS]

  and I came out of there just I mean [TS]

  really like now not just with the whole [TS]

  new impression of what Miley Cyrus is [TS]

  and represents but like a real push back [TS]

  on my own cultural instincts now through [TS]

  like two and i think i feel i feel like [TS]

  the entire culture is the kind of lined [TS]

  up to dismiss her and as a result she [TS]

  has this she has this real credibility [TS]

  with 20 year old girls who she is a 20 [TS]

  year old girl and she has a she has a [TS]

  direct line to them and is talking to [TS]

  them directly and they are responding to [TS]

  her directly and there's no no one else [TS]

  is allowed in almost you know her show [TS]

  is too dirty for teens so like the katy [TS]

  perry show make sure not to be too scary [TS]

  because she's trying to get all the [TS]

  tenants it's very--it's saucy but it [TS]

  doesn't inhabit that level of like back [TS]

  in aliens spectacle right exact sounds [TS]

  it sounds like it like that like a [TS]

  spectacle [TS]

  it's an absolute spectacle and like [TS]

  there are there are just way more [TS]

  vaginas in miley cyrus show then you are [TS]

  going to see in a normal presentation [TS]

  but they but it's not as that's like [TS]

  elements of set design or just yeah yeah [TS]

  it's just like I mean the beastie boys [TS]

  come out with the giant set of [TS]

  inflatable boobs or Mick Jagger's [TS]

  bouncing around on a huge blow-up [TS]

  microphone and Miley Cyrus effectively [TS]

  has no there are a lot of blow up [TS]

  animals in her show and some of them are [TS]

  I mean some of the visuals were fully [TS]

  into the realm of this is that this is [TS]

  trippy trippy shit that is I could I [TS]

  kept coming back to like if I had taken [TS]

  some mushrooms before the show I would [TS]

  be weeping [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  but left process with no coffee well a [TS]

  lot of processes with that with no copy [TS]

  and also this like cultural mash of [TS]

  japanese anime punk rock metal rap a [TS]

  country and YouTube culture photoshop [TS]

  little gerbil they're less kind of sex [TS]

  worker stuff to the right hold total [TS]

  pole-dancing seen all the time like [TS]

  every every physical gesture is derived [TS]

  either from pole dancing working or uh I [TS]

  mean but like a 21 year olds sense of [TS]

  what sex is [TS]

  and I mean I would have walked into that [TS]

  is not a modern 21 year olds idea right [TS]

  if you if you would put a microphone in [TS]

  front of me as I'm walking in there been [TS]

  a reporter that was like you there with [TS]

  the jingle stick c'mere [TS]

  what are you going into the miley cyrus [TS]

  show you know what do you think she's [TS]

  sexy [TS]

  I would have said the 21 year old girl [TS]

  is not sexy she's skinny and she doesn't [TS]

  know like what you don't know how to [TS]

  have sex [TS]

  she's a she's a she's a child but coming [TS]

  out of that show i'm like 'oh 21 year [TS]

  olds know how to have sex what was I [TS]

  thinking [TS]

  21 year olds I mean they don't uh maybe [TS]

  they aren't like all experts at it but [TS]

  they're not she's not a child she's 21 [TS]

  you know she's she is a lot older than [TS]

  me a pharaoh was when she married stank [TS]

  Sinatra so so yeah we're coming so [TS]

  coming away from but that but but but [TS]

  but my mind was trying to process this [TS]

  torrent of images that was a complete [TS]

  like well basically if you allow me a [TS]

  fruit juice of all of basically [TS]

  everything the culture has produced you [TS]

  know African drumming uh-uh-uh [TS]

  enough videos when do Williams uh you [TS]

  know like and it's all happening like [TS]

  boom boom boom and I don't think [TS]

  everybody in the audience knows what [TS]

  every references to but in a way they do [TS]

  in a way they're much more attuned to [TS]

  this this tour this torrent of micro [TS]

  image and you anymore more comfortable [TS]

  with that like a mirage of iconography [TS]

  knowing that is iconography yeah very [TS]

  comfortable with it not you know they [TS]

  are not sitting there like borderline [TS]

  grand mal seizure like like I was but [TS]

  also i don't and this is maybe part part [TS]

  of what's interesting about it to me [TS]

  like they are trying to parse every [TS]

  image and part of what is making it [TS]

  overwhelming to me as I'm like whoa and [TS]

  I'm like I'm looking at every image and [TS]

  I'm I'm its igniting this part of my [TS]

  brain that has a cultural association [TS]

  with it so I'm like what [TS]

  oh hey what was that doing there were [TS]

  Dirk and they're not doing that they're [TS]

  just taking it in as a from a place of [TS]

  like people pure sensation and and and [TS]

  honestly unmitigated joy so the whole [TS]

  the whole event was like a completely on [TS]

  ironic no irony about it at all [TS]

  there was no cynicism to it and this is [TS]

  the net result was total positivity and [TS]

  looking around the room at the eight to [TS]

  ten thousand twenty year old girls all [TS]

  dressed like sex workers you realize [TS]

  that they are not dressing like that for [TS]

  the male gaze because there are no men [TS]

  here who they're dressing like this for [TS]

  one another for their own pleasure and [TS]

  in homage to Miley and she's dressing [TS]

  like that for them [TS]

  and and the the other amazing thing was [TS]

  not a single person ever looked at me [TS]

  like I was a creep like every single [TS]

  person every single girl that made eye [TS]

  contact with me which was hundreds and [TS]

  hundreds of them they were they all [TS]

  smiled and we're like high or excuse me [TS]

  or you know like everyone was was polite [TS]

  and I and I'd I never for a moment had [TS]

  that feeling of like oh my god what are [TS]

  you doing here like that that was absent [TS]

  from the from the place [TS]

  no booze no like no Satan worship I mean [TS]

  it was I mean unless it's a very complex [TS]

  and subtle Satan worship that that [TS]

  everybody has read everybody read a [TS]

  pamphlet before they went in explaining [TS]

  that this was all in service of Satan [TS]

  but I I didn't see it i saw just to [TS]

  prove you know kind of joy [TS]

  miley cyrus's joy of being 21 years old [TS]

  rich and able to just do whatever she [TS]

  wants i haven't been to many things like [TS]

  that in my life [TS]

  they were there are much clearer poles [TS]

  to almost everything that I've ever gone [TS]

  to that were about some kind of [TS]

  differentiation or you know it certainly [TS]

  punk rock shows but I'm maybe flaming [TS]

  lips i'm trying to think of you know [TS]

  like when they were first getting into [TS]

  their I'll the spectacles that they will [TS]

  put on a very positive and you know [TS]

  freak friendly kind of stuff but this a [TS]

  I I'm glad you went [TS]

  it sounds like this is a good experience [TS]

  for you it was i'm still I'm still [TS]

  chewing on it you know and I and I did [TS]

  not live tweet it as i was walking and I [TS]

  was like I'm gonna live-tweet the shit [TS]

  out of this Miley Cyrus concert it's [TS]

  gonna be really hilarious on Twitter and [TS]

  I got it and immediately I was like this [TS]

  is so over my head that up to live tweet [TS]

  it would be to do it and myself a [TS]

  disservice like I'm not going to be I'm [TS]

  not going to be out of this experience [TS]

  i'm going to just be rooted in this [TS]

  experience and try and like [TS]

  figure out where it's coming from [TS]

  because when I was that age when I was [TS]

  her age or her fans age I was at [TS]

  scorpions concepts and punk rock shows [TS]

  and we were all dressed for one another [TS]

  to in denim and leather and but the [TS]

  average eight there was no average age [TS]

  and scorpions concert it was me and you [TS]

  let us see burnouts in their fifties and [TS]

  you're stuck in that are way too young [TS]

  to be there [TS]

  sure it was mostly dudes or or almost [TS]

  entirely dudes but but i love the whole [TS]

  age range and what the Scorpions [TS]

  represented what their message was i [TS]

  mean i was i was forced to ask myself [TS]

  last night was the Scorpions message [TS]

  oh and they just essentially wanted to [TS]

  know if you're ready to rock and roll i [TS]

  think that's right yeah baby say we were [TS]

  we were ready I was ready i was ready to [TS]

  rock and roll look at me and I so you [TS]

  know I was going to shows all the time [TS]

  then and they were profoundly important [TS]

  to me and I'm not and and they were a [TS]

  lot less there was a lot less sensory [TS]

  experience that there was last night at [TS]

  the Miley Cyrus concert but that but [TS]

  then of course you know I'm reflecting [TS]

  like on the fact that my own daughter is [TS]

  not even a member of this generation at [TS]

  all these people [TS]

  miley cyrus is going to be a mature and [TS]

  legendary artist by the time my my [TS]

  daughter is going to her first concerts [TS]

  like Miley Cyrus will at that point b 25 [TS]

  years into her career and so so this [TS]

  experience does not even give me a [TS]

  toehold on understanding what the [TS]

  culture is going to be like and and the [TS]

  degree to which I'm going to need to be [TS]

  at least capable of experiencing [TS]

  understanding the culture 15 years from [TS]

  now [TS]

  you're making me think of something that [TS]

  is probably useful for me to think about [TS]

  you know we talked a lot and use [TS]

  especially talked a lot about this whole [TS]

  the authenticity problem and how that [TS]

  you know we've talked about and plenty [TS]

  right i mean this whole thing of like [TS]

  especially in rock-and-roll there's [TS]

  always concern about you know who's [TS]

  truly authentic who has more [TS]

  authenticity you can you know display [TS]

  that I mean who's closer to the blues [TS]

  who's more rock and roll and it's funny [TS]

  because I'm oh this is kind of a big [TS]

  thought but you think about you know no [TS]

  excuse me think about what happened in [TS]

  like a post Dylan post Beatles era and [TS]

  even if you were not doing your own [TS]

  songs there was still a primacy to [TS]

  creator to like artists created rock and [TS]

  roll it was the idea that like I'm not [TS]

  up your mouth and something that some [TS]

  tin pan alley guy didn't less i'm doing [TS]

  that for some kind of ironic point like [TS]

  I'm here because I am the person who [TS]

  made this show on the person who made [TS]

  this song this is about my life and even [TS]

  if it's not really about my life it [TS]

  still is works in the service of a [TS]

  certain kind of authenticity then [TS]

  somebody's going straight back to Dillon [TS]

  i think that's that's been I think it's [TS]

  one because I'm trying to say is in [TS]

  brief is that one reason a lot of stuff [TS]

  like this is so confusing and weird to [TS]

  people like me and presumably you is it [TS]

  it's it's a this really is [TS]

  generationally one of the first really [TS]

  one of the first major generational [TS]

  changes in popular music in quite a [TS]

  while maybe even up through indie-rock [TS]

  any rock is still heavily even today [TS]

  still so heavily rooted in that [TS]

  singer-songwriter tradition absolutely [TS]

  in fact that I'm up here and I may be [TS]

  playing the drums on somebody's a [TS]

  motorcycle helmet but that's authentic [TS]

  because we made this mean you know i'm [TS]

  not going to put too fine a point on it [TS]

  but i don't think that the way that you [TS]

  and I have historically looked at the [TS]

  way that our generation looked at that I [TS]

  don't think that matters to people today [TS]

  and that's not a judgment at all it's [TS]

  just an observation [TS]

  I think this is this is a it's it really [TS]

  is its own thing she has put this team [TS]

  together that or somebody put a team [TS]

  together for her that is really [TS]

  brilliantly leveraging the way things [TS]

  have changed [TS]

  in music and culture so like you know [TS]

  we've talked so much before again about [TS]

  like you work you put all this money [TS]

  into making out and you talk about this [TS]

  on when you're on my curly show you put [TS]

  all this money into like making an album [TS]

  and put it out [TS]

  used to be you could you know if you're [TS]

  Steve Miller you could ride on that for [TS]

  a year to right or if you were you know [TS]

  the Eagles or anybody you can get four [TS]

  singles off an element or off it for a [TS]

  year or two like you put out two hours [TS]

  and 20 for two years [TS]

  yeah and now today like people want this [TS]

  constant dribble of culture that does [TS]

  not facilitated by putting a hundred [TS]

  thousand dollars into an album putting [TS]

  it out and then just sitting around [TS]

  waiting for the checks to arrive ok it's [TS]

  a big it's a big issue but like it seems [TS]

  like there are people today that are [TS]

  much more comfortable going like hey I'm [TS]

  putting out of a pop-culture product and [TS]

  that doesn't make me a worse person than [TS]

  you [TS]

  I I this is this is a job that I do and [TS]

  people love this and I'm going to [TS]

  narrowcast this to these 20 year old [TS]

  girls who love this and if you don't [TS]

  like it that's okay but that's not gonna [TS]

  make me do this differently and your [TS]

  concerns about my about my authenticity [TS]

  are going to are going to fall short of [TS]

  their target because that's not even [TS]

  what i'm trying to do i'm being me and [TS]

  and me is this team of people in [TS]

  production designers and songwriters and [TS]

  musicians and lighting people that make [TS]

  this kind of product that you know i'm [TS]

  not going to make a quality but you know [TS]

  what i mean i think that DVD see that [TS]

  difference like you know it when are you [TS]

  so much pushback on the punk-rock [TS]

  article you so much pushback on the [TS]

  whole I kind of authenticity thing like [TS]

  you know and you know all along we've [TS]

  all been trying to find the product that [TS]

  like meets our needs and it sounds like [TS]

  she's getting that two people here [TS]

  well what was the last stop sucking up [TS]

  to X no no that's that that's right in [TS]

  line with exactly like where my mind was [TS]

  going and where my mind is going trying [TS]

  to trying to process it for myself [TS]

  because also authenticity is a huge it [TS]

  is is is a huge and maybe the singular [TS]

  like cup criteria of hip-hop right like [TS]

  hip-hop's whole trip is is it real are [TS]

  you real [TS]

  and I mean I don't know enough about [TS]

  that culture to to critique it deeply [TS]

  but the the the the gangster and sort of [TS]

  authenticity trip that that is a heart [TS]

  like the heart the hardcore nature of [TS]

  this sure that scene has been you know [TS]

  caught up in for almost its entire life [TS]

  of me when you think about the original [TS]

  hip-hop it was so Mary it was so pretty [TS]

  like I was like party music party music [TS]

  right and it was it was only not mean it [TS]

  was only sort of run DMC is like tougher [TS]

  than leather vibe that started to [TS]

  establish that that eric b and rakim [TS]

  direction where it was like no no this [TS]

  is righteous and for a long time there [TS]

  were those two sides of hip-hop right [TS]

  the della soul over here that are [TS]

  intellectual at but also fun and then [TS]

  NWA just pushed it in well and Public [TS]

  Enemy really pushed it in this thread i [TS]

  mean like let's let's remember there was [TS]

  a time when there were articles about [TS]

  the feud between kool Moe Dee and MC [TS]

  hammer huh [TS]

  but I was more real who's more real I [TS]

  think I think history will record that [TS]

  in as much as that was a contest I guess [TS]

  kool Moe Dee one but who was more real [TS]

  than Hammer hammer was a ball boy for [TS]

  the Oakland a right [TS]

  like come on the right guy was like as [TS]

  real as they come it's just that he's [TS]

  wearing a Sinbad pants but you needed [TS]

  but in all this cases with hip-hopper [TS]

  anybody else but it is especially [TS]

  hip-hop not really with all alone like [TS]

  it's important that that that you that [TS]

  that that be authentic so that you can [TS]

  be authentic right you don't want to [TS]

  follow somebody who's like a big poser [TS]

  knows now there's a poser but last night [TS]

  at the show [TS]

  miley as part of the show hasn't as a [TS]

  there's a middle section where she goes [TS]

  out to a little stage that's way at the [TS]

  back of the arena so she's playing for [TS]

  the people in the cheap seats and this [TS]

  is a little pop-up stage [TS]

  it wasn't evident to anyone was there [TS]

  and she's putting on this in enormous [TS]

  spectacle and then all of a sudden she [TS]

  disappears and you know multiple times [TS]

  in the show she disappears in a little [TS]

  elevator beneath the stage to change [TS]

  costumes and there's and in the meantime [TS]

  there's a big video show that's it in [TS]

  some ways like the craziest part of the [TS]

  show but all of a sudden she pops up at [TS]

  this little mini stage dressed in a [TS]

  total like glitz bboy outfit like a [TS]

  glitter hat glitter baseball hat kind of [TS]

  turned to the side giant sir Justin [TS]

  Bieber t-shirt except instead of Justin [TS]

  Bieber's face its miley's face [TS]

  Sarah sure she's there with a giant [TS]

  picture of herself on her shirt and like [TS]

  dressed in a costume that immediately I [TS]

  like again my instinct was I don't like [TS]

  that i don't like that costume [TS]

  it looks like something the fly girls [TS]

  would wear on living color and I don't [TS]

  like it it's at its appropriated from [TS]

  something that I I didn't like the thing [TS]

  initially and now I don't like the [TS]

  appropriation of but she gets out on [TS]

  this little stage in this outfit and [TS]

  does two covers she does a downtempo [TS]

  acoustic cover of hey who that was for [TS]

  the most part like a very cool indie [TS]

  rock cover if I if I had heard tegan and [TS]

  sara do it before if i had heard st. [TS]

  Vincent do this cover of hey yeah i [TS]

  would have been like that's great great [TS]

  great sad song and it was very sad too [TS]

  and frankly watching Miley Cyrus I had [TS]

  to say that's amazing [TS]

  like that's great that she is cease [TS]

  singing hey yeah right now and it's [TS]

  making me sad and that's tremendous [TS]

  I mean she's doing it in an arena and [TS]

  she's got a picture of herself on her [TS]

  shirt and i'm i'm i'm genuinely moved [TS]

  and then her second cover is a [TS]

  full-throated just straight ahead honest [TS]

  cover of Jolene that the belly part in [TS]

  song [TS]

  yeah wow just at the top of her lungs [TS]

  just Jolene job and I'm like let's [TS]

  fucking incredible like that's it [TS]

  that isn't that is an amazing tin and [TS]

  sung by someone who obviously has been [TS]

  singing it since she was a little kid [TS]

  and there's no there's no reference made [TS]

  there's no wink in it it's like sad [TS]

  country version of Hey Ya full-throated [TS]

  version of Jolene and then back to the [TS]

  stripper show and at no point does [TS]

  anyone stop for a millisecond and go see [TS]

  what we did there because it's because [TS]

  that element of it is gone and that [TS]

  whole see what we did there [TS]

  impulse is still tied to this [TS]

  authenticity question that you or [TS]

  problem that you pose is a slideshow of [TS]

  poor kids in Mississippi or vintage [TS]

  photos of Dolly Parton nope there's no [TS]

  there's no like we are putting country [TS]

  and hip hop together we are put in we [TS]

  are doing these things because we are we [TS]

  are smarter than these things and we are [TS]

  able to manipulate these building blocks [TS]

  of culture and art we and appreciate us [TS]

  for that as the you know and that's the [TS]

  authenticity argument ultimately is like [TS]

  I know I'm a white kid playing the blues [TS]

  but I'm but I'm my acknowledgement of it [TS]

  my recognition that I'm doing it is [TS]

  makes it forgivable makes me miss you [TS]

  know you should admire me not because [TS]

  not just because of what I'm making but [TS]

  also because of my intention myself [TS]

  knowledge my my purpose my [TS]

  you know all of these secondary [TS]

  questions that are that are threaded [TS]

  through the question of authenticity and [TS]

  their-their wasn't any of that there's [TS]

  no there's no you or if your if that's [TS]

  in there it's just now [TS]

  it permeates the culture to the degree [TS]

  that no one has to do it anymore [TS]

  we all know that we all know everything [TS]

  we all know that there's no difference [TS]

  between you know like the message of her [TS]

  show is uh there's no difference between [TS]

  people and there's no difference between [TS]

  things there's no like african drumming [TS]

  in Japanese imagery belong together [TS]

  because everything is possible all the [TS]

  time so look what I made and I can't [TS]

  find fault with it [TS]

  yeah anyway I'll something I think about [TS]

  a lot on what you know drag this out i [TS]

  think it's it's it is fascinating and [TS]

  I'm glad you talked about it because [TS]

  it's and I'm glad you went [TS]

  what do you think about a lot when I'm [TS]

  watching a TV show or a movie that I [TS]

  think also applies a lot to pop music is [TS]

  for example if you're watching doctor [TS]

  who you're watching star wars you're [TS]

  watching any kind of a show i think it's [TS]

  always interesting to watch for sort of [TS]

  like who were supposed to sympathize [TS]

  with to the point where maybe better [TS]

  like who we want to be in this thing so [TS]

  i can doctor who [TS]

  a lot of people talk about Doctor Who I [TS]

  usually has a companion often a woman [TS]

  somebody's with them who's sometimes as [TS]

  little as just the doctor what's [TS]

  happening here and give them reason to [TS]

  explain it but can also be very an [TS]

  emotional connection that's just short [TS]

  of romantic a lot of the time but [TS]

  there's something we're like there's [TS]

  some character in this where you're [TS]

  supposed to see yourself right there [TS]

  that you are you are the person on this [TS]

  journey I think this is probably with [TS]

  Lord of the Rings and Star Wars maybe [TS]

  that's look Skywalker an episode for you [TS]

  know what I mean there's always somebody [TS]

  that you're supposed to sympathize with [TS]

  you just say episode 4 and I'm sorry [TS]

  that's what's officially what's called [TS]

  come on it's officially called a new [TS]

  hope [TS]

  dude this is a safe space here okay we [TS]

  don't have to you don't have to like [TS]

  talk to cult language here it's this [TS]

  this is not a couple more just [TS]

  star wards Star Wars is what it's called [TS]

  she's like some values it's called Star [TS]

  Wars the Justicar or consent but the [TS]

  story's gets really interesting in pop [TS]

  music because like Who am I supposed to [TS]

  obviously you're there because you buy [TS]

  larger there unless you really are at [TS]

  some gritty you know british punk rock [TS]

  show [TS]

  you're there because you like that [TS]

  performer you like what they do you [TS]

  probably you kind of want to be them [TS]

  sort of writing i mean you want to be [TS]

  the more you want to be with them maybe [TS]

  you want to kiss them but like there's [TS]

  something to it where like you see [TS]

  yourself and I think this is where the [TS]

  authenticity thing on its authenticity [TS]

  thing has been such a bugbear in the [TS]

  past is it's difficult for us to want to [TS]

  be close minor if we feel like class my [TS]

  name is not authentic right well you [TS]

  know what I'm saying [TS]

  and in this instance it you know it [TS]

  sounds like she's pretty unabashed about [TS]

  saying like you want to be me and I want [TS]

  to be you like we're realize you say we [TS]

  are doing this for each other which I [TS]

  think to do that in a way that is guy [TS]

  listen again I I don't overstate this I [TS]

  wasn't there but to do that in a way [TS]

  that it's guyless is is pretty unusual [TS]

  for stuff that I've been to in the past [TS]

  they would be a little fruity for me to [TS]

  say Oh John John Roderick is so dreamy i [TS]

  wish i could sink our parts or you know [TS]

  I guess Jagger or whatever but i think [TS]

  that's that's such a big piece of this [TS]

  is like wanting to see ourselves up [TS]

  there and wanted to see see what it [TS]

  would be like to be that person so I [TS]

  don't need to get our own bars but I [TS]

  mean like for her to be up there in the [TS]

  equivalent of like what somebody would [TS]

  wear in a hip-hop caprisun commercial [TS]

  with her being that guy right with her [TS]

  shirt with their own face on it [TS]

  well that's because that's that that [TS]

  could be you you want that to be you [TS]

  so when you go out and you wear that [TS]

  shirt you doing the same thing that she [TS]

  did and it's it's it's got like a [TS]

  one-to-one relationship i don't know i [TS]

  don't that make sense but again that's [TS]

  the kind of thing where like the last [TS]

  thing in a million years that you would [TS]

  say as a cool rock fan is like man I [TS]

  really want to be Michael Stipe that [TS]

  would have not been a very cool thing to [TS]

  say in 1984 probably although I probably [TS]

  would've set it to be honest but you [TS]

  know what i mean it sounds like those [TS]

  you felt like the least from your [TS]

  perspective with your with your paycheck [TS]

  jingle stick [TS]

  that that the those barriers or not [TS]

  they're in a way they were 20 years ago [TS]

  for us [TS]

  well I and a so much of it is is in the [TS]

  visual culture now that the watching the [TS]

  watching the this ponopolis of images [TS]

  unfold at [TS]

  unfold at [TS]

  realizing that that like we are living [TS]

  in a selfie culture now I was having a [TS]

  conversation with somebody on the phone [TS]

  the other day and I realized that they [TS]

  had never taken a selfie because they [TS]

  were an old person and I said you really [TS]

  need to really need to get past the [TS]

  barrier here and i took a picture myself [TS]

  and I was like see here's a selfie i'm [TS]

  just i'm driving in my car i'm taking a [TS]

  picture here's a picture of me what how [TS]

  do you feel about that and they were [TS]

  like I you know I'm it's really nice to [TS]

  see a picture of you I'm really like [TS]

  they they had all psychological barriers [TS]

  to taking a selfie that were all related [TS]

  to shame about self-aggrandizement she's [TS]

  antithetical to pretty much everything I [TS]

  I grew up with you don't take your own [TS]

  picture right right it's really that's a [TS]

  very weird thing to do that for a long [TS]

  time not to beat this to death but [TS]

  people who look like they wanted to be [TS]

  perceived as sex workers with two for a [TS]

  long time it used to be that that was [TS]

  just the domain of girls who took 45 [TS]

  pictures of themselves in the bathroom [TS]

  mirror until they got the one that they [TS]

  like and now today everybody John [TS]

  Hodgman can't stop [TS]

  well anyone stop Frank frankly frankly [TS]

  no one can stop now like it we we have [TS]

  crossed the Rubicon and selfies are our [TS]

  up of form of art selfies are part of [TS]

  our awareness of ourselves and I mean I [TS]

  knew people who would get a roll of film [TS]

  back from the drugstore and like throw [TS]

  away the pictures of themselves just [TS]

  because even owning a picture of [TS]

  themselves taken by somebody else was [TS]

  too much vanity for them it's like it's [TS]

  like it's like it's like asking for your [TS]

  own autograph it it doesn't you need a [TS]

  second party for that to make sense yeah [TS]

  right and you you take the pictures of [TS]

  you and you give them to other people [TS]

  because why would you want to look at a [TS]

  picture of yourself but now the the [TS]

  culture has you know completely embraced [TS]

  the idea that [TS]

  pictures of yourself that taking [TS]

  thousands of pictures of yourself is a [TS]

  like is a way of exploring your identity [TS]

  and and understanding your ego and and [TS]

  basking in it and what's missing is the [TS]

  shame that we used to feel about it and [TS]

  so watching this watching the show last [TS]

  night in this cascade of images and a [TS]

  lot of pictures of miley cyrus in her [TS]

  own show including on her own t-shirt [TS]

  and including at the beginning when she [TS]

  literally slides out of her own mouth [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  it's still can't get over that in and I [TS]

  don't and I'm not sure when they were [TS]

  thinking about when they were thinking [TS]

  it up it was like yes that's amazing but [TS]

  they're obviously either they have an [TS]

  incredible do they have no on staff [TS]

  theorists or they have an incredible on [TS]

  staff the earliest was just like yes [TS]

  definitely slide down your own tongue [TS]

  that is fucking great [TS]

  you know like somebody is that I think I [TS]

  feel like maybe her choreographer and [TS]

  her show runner are both like art phd's [TS]

  or something I mean it really feels like [TS]

  there's that much [TS]

  there's that much intention behind some [TS]

  of this stuff that's just like that [TS]

  couldn't be an accident but but this [TS]

  cascade of images is being received by [TS]

  an audience of people who are who are so [TS]

  much more comfortable with images of [TS]

  themselves and like I mean one of the [TS]

  best bits in them in the miley show was [TS]

  she's added out on the runway and she's [TS]

  just grabbing people's phones and like [TS]

  video taping herself for a second and [TS]

  handing the phone back to them and which [TS]

  is kinda like an autograph right and an [TS]

  amazing gift to give to somebody who [TS]

  you're a Miley Cyrus fan enough that you [TS]

  are right up against the stage and she [TS]

  grabs your phone and touches it with [TS]

  their own hand and like makes a little [TS]

  personal video for you and hands it back [TS]

  and so it's just like fan for life but [TS]

  also like what is that [TS]

  like I I do feel like every everyone in [TS]

  the audience is putting themselves in [TS]

  her shape because they all can make [TS]

  videos of themselves they're making [TS]

  videos of themselves right now and those [TS]

  videos are part of the unassisted I [TS]

  guess this is what I walked away with we [TS]

  always thought at the dawn of the [TS]

  Internet that I i think a lot of us [TS]

  could see that here was the potential [TS]

  for all of human knowledge to come to [TS]

  one central clearinghouse we could [TS]

  compare and contrast finally you didn't [TS]

  have to go get lost in the stacks with [TS]

  seven books open trying to figure out [TS]

  like where the Koran and the Bible and [TS]

  the bugger all the all the existing [TS]

  stuff without whether mental model right [TS]

  so we're going to mental model of the [TS]

  library like you don't get to go in and [TS]

  like scribbled a note book and put it on [TS]

  the Shelf right we were going to this [TS]

  was here was the internet and it was [TS]

  going to be this place where we finally [TS]

  had a consensus place and if we had and [TS]

  this is kind of the this is the liberal [TS]

  mentality like if we just get all the [TS]

  information in one place then the truth [TS]

  will be no and once we have all the [TS]

  information and we have the truth that [TS]

  we will be well then we will have [TS]

  achieved Nirvana or you know then strife [TS]

  will disappear because the truth is [TS]

  available and the only reason that we [TS]

  have wore the only reason that there is [TS]

  you know that there is so much anger in [TS]

  the world is that we don't we are [TS]

  confused we don't know the truth this [TS]

  person's angry he doesn't see the other [TS]

  person's side etc etc and the internet [TS]

  had this this enormous possibility [TS]

  well what what we're in now i think is [TS]

  this like post internet where yes all [TS]

  the information is available [TS]

  it's or or if you want [TS]

  look for I mean it's all here and what [TS]

  it has created is not this like this [TS]

  intellectual underpinnings for this this [TS]

  consensus in fact the culture is gone [TS]

  the other direction and and all things [TS]

  are equal and there is no consensus but [TS]

  what it has produced is this art culture [TS]

  where every single thing that's ever [TS]

  been made is cut up and paste it back [TS]

  together and there isn't a [TS]

  differentiation between like the like [TS]

  anime and tribal drumming and punk rock [TS]

  group none of those things all just sit [TS]

  is not just comfortably beside one [TS]

  another but but as if they had always [TS]

  been together and so in a sense it is [TS]

  the achievement of like the sum total of [TS]

  human knowledge all brought together but [TS]

  it's happening in this mashup of music [TS]

  and image rather than in this like sort [TS]

  of bookish theoretical place and it's a [TS]

  and I I guess I I it's not what I [TS]

  expected but it is but it it it bodes I [TS]

  guess it i guess it bodes well [TS]

  like I'm excited to see what it produces [TS]

  what I mean what I'm so excited to see [TS]

  what that means [TS]

  what is especially talking about your [TS]

  daughter my daughter you know what it [TS]

  means for somebody who didn't grow up [TS]

  with this as a transitional thing or as [TS]

  a new thing for somebody who for him [TS]

  like somebody born today for whom Miley [TS]

  Cyrus Cyrus sliding out of her own mouth [TS]

  on her own tongue [TS]

  is it something that's a mean it's not [TS]

  like that's the craziest thing but no [TS]

  although you have to see it really deny [TS]

  I just now I it's really disturbing me [TS]

  I've made Mick Jagger had done it at any [TS]

  point it would I mean if he done it 25 [TS]

  years ago we would that image would be [TS]

  burned in my brain I'm thinking it's [TS]

  just a 60 so then what I mean if you [TS]

  think about this like somebody from [TS]

  western China comes comes into the the [TS]

  world now and says like I i play the one [TS]

  string violin it is our it's that our [TS]

  instruments the instrument of my uh my [TS]

  people here in western China and it's [TS]

  the you know it's it's our traditional [TS]

  instrument and i am the master one [TS]

  string violinist until very recently the [TS]

  the response to that would have been to [TS]

  give this guy show at carnegie hall or [TS]

  or you know his record would be the new [TS]

  NPR the kind of favorite or he would do [TS]

  if he would do a world tour like look [TS]

  what we found [TS]

  look what what has been introduced to us [TS]

  like you would have done something with [TS]

  any better or if like when the monks [TS]

  came to lollapalooza it would have been [TS]

  some kind of like you know we're [TS]

  sponsoring this culture [TS]

  yeah look at this but this is this new [TS]

  miley cyrus culture would just instantly [TS]

  assimilate that may be like oh cool one [TS]

  string violent guy you know like you're [TS]

  his one string violin sound would be [TS]

  automatically appropriated and like he [TS]

  would he would get up and do a song with [TS]

  miley cyrus but it wouldn't be like [TS]

  they're what they wouldn't have that um [TS]

  the reverence that we used to Accord [TS]

  that kind of like here he is now going [TS]

  to play his traditional music but [TS]

  instead it would just be like that's a [TS]

  cool sound that guy's cool looking [TS]

  and in a way that's more I mean in a way [TS]

  that just see that seems like a true [TS]

  kind of globalism or like more in line [TS]

  with the idea that all of humanity is [TS]

  one that we are all on one course [TS]

  together and that you know that I guess [TS]

  that's my takeaway from this show is [TS]

  like they're it [TS]

  her message if there is one is that I [TS]

  mean one planet one people almost and [TS]

  and you should make some coffee job [TS]