Roderick on the Line

Ep. 103: "Artisanal Pork Bakery"


  although I John I'm Merlin is going good [TS]

  it's early [TS]

  yeah it is early you're being a a team [TS]

  player today you're being a little bit [TS]

  of a team player you always a team [TS]

  player but today you really stepped up [TS]

  to the mic plate and I stepped up to the [TS]

  mic plate [TS]

  you really got your game face on and are [TS]

  willing to put some points on that board [TS]

  uh-huh I'm racking up the points on the [TS]

  mic plate board whoever racks up more [TS]

  points on the mic plate board is going [TS]

  to be the team that wins this particular [TS]

  game of ball that's exactly right that [TS]

  is you know we are in the seed wherein [TS]

  the seeds own we're totally in the [TS]

  bracket sounds like some kind of a porno [TS]

  I guess a sperm whale the seeds own ya [TS]

  SE were all that a sperm whale started [TS]

  thinking that maybe a fluffer have to a [TS]

  few number isn't that a nice term [TS]

  fluffer would have to be in the seeds [TS]

  own any flooding is really a thing [TS]

  times have changed too i think back in [TS]

  the old days [TS]

  fluffing was absolutely a thing but [TS]

  nowadays all about pharmaceuticals [TS]

  well the thing is nowadays there's a [TS]

  whole group of people probably [TS]

  absolutely a whole group of people that [TS]

  what they're really into is the is the [TS]

  fluffer girl or a boy yes you know like [TS]

  in the old days it was like oh you're [TS]

  not you're not ready to you're not ready [TS]

  for prime time you're just a your [TS]

  fluffer level but now it's great you [TS]

  saying they could get their own [TS]

  following like I said the cameras [TS]

  rolling there's no there's no [TS]

  distinction between stars fluffer now [TS]

  you know in the can in the contemporary [TS]

  s80 analogy question I think like the [TS]

  journalist is to the bloggers as the [TS]

  porn star is to the fluffer i think you [TS]

  could probably get a hell of a following [TS]

  today you absolutely you have a whole [TS]

  like you know you have your own fluffer [TS]

  channel network and and beat you with it [TS]

  but the thing is you wouldn't even you [TS]

  wouldn't even say like oh I was a [TS]

  fluffer i am a flipper just be like no [TS]

  this is this is me I'm [TS]

  you know like I have a little bit of a [TS]

  mustache and this is my channel haha and [TS]

  people are like I love it I sign up for [TS]

  that I could definitely see a reality [TS]

  show [TS]

  um let's see maybe called fluffy you and [TS]

  you it would be a show about a really as [TS]

  university that they go to learn out of [TS]

  no well could be sure to let you [TS]

  continue this guy for now I think it [TS]

  would be about like following along in [TS]

  like-for-like a lifetime kind of thing [TS]

  that lifetime am you know like a project [TS]

  runway cut type thing or like Rachel's [TS]

  Oh like you follow around like not that [TS]

  she's a fluffer but you follow around [TS]

  one of the up-and-comers if you like [TS]

  uh-huh or even a preeminent fluffy can [TS]

  somebody who's at the top of the game [TS]

  yeah somebody that slip that does like [TS]

  the imam of fluffers [TS]

  hey wait hang on I got it write it on [TS]

  the sky called the comeback haha that's [TS]

  not somebody that's what somebody i used [TS]

  to be like the this is it one of those [TS]

  like Debra Winger the debra winger of [TS]

  fluffing that has to be a woman but [TS]

  somebody who was unquestionably the top [TS]

  fluffer in the game any sprinkles [TS]

  fluffer you think's right fluffer [TS]

  well but what I that's what I'm saying [TS]

  like I'm sure the old porn stars all had [TS]

  their all had their like understudy [TS]

  oh it's like literally you will do well [TS]

  I was like the flipper that kind of have [TS]

  to travel together shove course as you [TS]

  do [TS]

  yeah but i mean i think what happened is [TS]

  that I think that the comeback would [TS]

  probably be the result if you like of [TS]

  probably an independent documentary [TS]

  featuring tons of porn stars from the [TS]

  seventies talking about how nobody [TS]

  fluffs is it would be like that movie [TS]

  that recently came out about all the [TS]

  back sinners exactly spans except they [TS]

  were the they were the the foreground [TS]

  blisters like okay if you're gonna do a [TS]

  John Woo documentary at this point it's [TS]

  got to either be about how food is bad [TS]

  weed is great or about some kind of a [TS]

  person who we didn't know we should know [TS]

  about that now we're all crying because [TS]

  we've learned about them [TS]

  well that's the muscle shoals guys not [TS]

  the you know the motors one about the [TS]

  Motown guys write the unsung heroes of X [TS]

  in this case it's about keeping someone [TS]

  wrecked forefront of film the unsung [TS]

  heroes of porn who I mean there are so [TS]

  many ways so many documentaries you [TS]

  could make about the unsung heroes of [TS]

  porn think about all of the work that's [TS]

  gone into because you know they were [TS]

  laboring and security they were there [TS]

  the cops were kicking down the doors [TS]

  yeah just recently Los Angeles made it [TS]

  made it a law that you have to wear a [TS]

  condom now in a in a pornographic film [TS]

  filmed in the los angeles area turns out [TS]

  i think it's causing a brain drain or i [TS]

  guess a wiener drain or whatever it is i [TS]

  think that's making people want to leave [TS]

  because they feel like they can't sell [TS]

  that to people [TS]

  yeah people are like I don't want to you [TS]

  know nobody's gonna buy it [TS]

  yeah nobody's gonna buy that for one [TS]

  because that's not the fantasy i had a [TS]

  UH french language and let professor in [TS]

  college who was it [TS]

  Madison worked in a point theatre to [TS]

  clean up in booths [TS]

  yeah he said it was not an it was a kind [TS]

  of an unpleasant job i had a friend a [TS]

  named Davey who a punk-rock Davey mm and [TS]

  Davey when he supposed to change society [TS]

  lady that said society baby punk-rock [TS]

  Davey used to work in the bars in the [TS]

  clubs but little by little I think [TS]

  burned all his his all his bridges so [TS]

  that he was no longer he never was a [TS]

  bartender he was never rose above the [TS]

  level level of bar back but uh and that [TS]

  we another device already titles on the [TS]

  generally the bar back but then [TS]

  eventually Davey ended up working at the [TS]

  apple theatre which was important [TS]

  theater here in Seattle that's now been [TS]

  converted into like an artisanal pork [TS]

  bakery but at the time it was a it was [TS]

  still showing 35-millimeter film and it [TS]

  was like open all night [TS]

  I guess they closed for an hour between [TS]

  seven and eight a.m. or something like [TS]

  that and i would sometimes go and sit [TS]

  with Davey [TS]

  in the projection booth and we would do [TS]

  drugs in the point of my life to drugs [TS]

  and and watch you know he'd be like you [TS]

  did it was they were full-length pornos [TS]

  so you would have to change a real [TS]

  halfway through you know it was like it [TS]

  was like a serious like going to the [TS]

  movies and then and then the theater [TS]

  would be full of people who were just [TS]

  looking for a place to sleep like you [TS]

  know for for the seven dollar ticket to [TS]

  to get into the movie theater you could [TS]

  you can spend the night in there so I [TS]

  one of the few places on all series [TS]

  final few places where for that amount [TS]

  of money you could be pretty much [TS]

  guaranteed nobody would touch you right [TS]

  i mean that's exactly right and the [TS]

  equivalent of like complete privacy for [TS]

  whatever an epic a big part of the big [TS]

  part of the of the appeal i think in the [TS]

  waning days of a big city porn theaters [TS]

  was just like yeah I'm just gonna for [TS]

  seven dollars i mean you couldn't get it [TS]

  you couldn't get a bed in a bit at the [TS]

  st. Vincent de Paul for seven dollars [TS]

  unless let's daddy probably well and [TS]

  nobody's going to preach to you about [TS]

  Jesus for an hour you don't have to go [TS]

  through the rigmarole you just go in and [TS]

  then just a good at his job [TS]

  no Davy was terrible at his job I I may [TS]

  have told you the story that Davey this [TS]

  was you know this sense has become a [TS]

  kind of like conventional gag because of [TS]

  the movie fight club but Davey actually [TS]

  would go and splice in like so it in the [TS]

  movie Fight Club what was it that he was [TS]

  he was splicing in porno into regular [TS]

  films but Davey would splice in car [TS]

  crash scenes and carnage scenes that jet [TS]

  right at the moment of ejaculation [TS]

  and that was a lie i believe that the [TS]

  reason that disappeared in Fight Club is [TS]

  that this was a projection estate game [TS]

  that was in some ways maybe universal [TS]

  because David was not a baby was not the [TS]

  type of guys to like necessarily dream [TS]

  this up all by himself [TS]

  there was like a postmodern project [TS]

  whereby people should notice it should [TS]

  be like unconscious clearly subliminal [TS]

  that he was right at the right at the [TS]

  moment of the like where the porn star [TS]

  was like busting is not he would he [TS]

  would put just a just an imperceptible a [TS]

  bit of like vivisection or or car crash [TS]

  or like autopsy footage and you know and [TS]

  i don't know and it because that was the [TS]

  that was the the era of up like those [TS]

  research uh magazines where I mean maybe [TS]

  they're buried with jg ballard's at the [TS]

  crash pad yeah yeah PA [TS]

  Davy had one of those bookshelves that [TS]

  was like book autopsy photos serial [TS]

  killer photos [TS]

  yeah people that laid down on train [TS]

  tracks no medical anomalies 4pm neck [TS]

  tattoos [TS]

  exactly yeah and-and-and I would go to [TS]

  his house and I I be you know it was one [TS]

  of those apartments where there was a [TS]

  there was a bookshelf made out of cinder [TS]

  blocks and then a mattress on the floor [TS]

  and thence like 600 beer cans and I [TS]

  would sit and look at his bookshelf and [TS]

  I'm like Davy seriously like I don't [TS]

  want to look at any of this stuff and [TS]

  he's like are no man you gotta check it [TS]

  out and open up some book with people [TS]

  with elephantitis and and I'm like well [TS]

  I seriously this is your ear you are [TS]

  engaging in a kind of your you're [TS]

  chasing the the punk rock dragon tail [TS]

  and it is it's not i don't believe you [TS]

  I think you're just afraid that things [TS]

  were getting a little too real up that [TS]

  is a real man that shit is real but the [TS]

  first time he showed me like the be half [TS]

  a foot of film [TS]

  of some like brutal brutal murder that [TS]

  he was splicing into these classic [TS]

  seventies porns I was like okay I I [TS]

  approve of that like you're doing [TS]

  serious psychic damage to be in the [TS]

  service of just like speed the collapse [TS]

  and I i can't i can't find fault it's [TS]

  kinda like reverse Ludovico technique [TS]

  you know from clockwork orange it's a [TS]

  museum imagine if like all the stuff we [TS]

  saw on cinemax and showtime had [TS]

  something similar done to it right i [TS]

  mean you could really could really mess [TS]

  with somebody and it would take it would [TS]

  be real sleeper cell I think maybe [TS]

  occupation wise this is maybe what I'm a [TS]

  little bit worried about the last group [TS]

  of people that need to be additionally [TS]

  fucked with psychologically are men who [TS]

  are sleeping in a porno theater that got [TS]

  me thinking enough on the flakes right [TS]

  like those are not the people that you [TS]

  want to activate and and connect their [TS]

  sexuality to violent crime like you know [TS]

  I mean like all the people ray the world [TS]

  you don't want to send out of the [TS]

  theater with the unhealthy association [TS]

  between orgasm and you know and mass [TS]

  violence don't ya [TS]

  now let's keep that one a nap the other [TS]

  one to push someone simply apply for [TS]

  exactly know those baby brought dayley [TS]

  punk-rock dating David I ran into him [TS]

  the other day I hadn't seen him in 15 [TS]

  years who I ran into him and probably it [TS]

  probably in the this is even this is [TS]

  even a faux pas in punk rock circles but [TS]

  the first thing i said was well i got i [TS]

  can't believe you're alive haha anyway [TS]

  like looked all offended and chocolate [TS]

  like I have a kid I was like wow that's [TS]

  great you you made it [TS]

  you grew up he had a kid yeah and and [TS]

  then i said what he doing he's like I'm [TS]

  nothing some temp job revenant I find it [TS]

  strange to think about me because [TS]

  because I mean maybe probably the way it [TS]

  came across and probably legitimately [TS]

  you're like wow I can't believe [TS]

  punk-rock Davey didn't get killed or [TS]

  didn't die [TS]

  it is only guy and yeah exactly but like [TS]

  it's so strange to think about all the [TS]

  people you never see this is how [TS]

  self-involved I am is like I think about [TS]

  the dozens or hundreds of people that i [TS]

  have called friends over the years but [TS]

  i'm not in close contact with are not in [TS]

  contact with all I don't know their [TS]

  status [TS]

  you know it's I haven't gotten to that [TS]

  age where you like and I read the obits [TS]

  I flip through the alumni newsletter [TS]

  when it arrives and find out which [TS]

  professors have recently died that [TS]

  always makes me sad yeah but but it's [TS]

  strange to think that there's all these [TS]

  people who like it would be nice to [TS]

  think that they just got stuck on a [TS]

  shelf somewhere and stopped aging and [TS]

  and everything kind of stayed the same [TS]

  because you know we we try to imagine [TS]

  your friends today you think about the [TS]

  park AV look different than you expected [TS]

  because he should be 15 years younger in [TS]

  your head right well except that punk [TS]

  rock Davey a was punk rock so he was [TS]

  always a little bit more Haggard looking [TS]

  then then he should have been you little [TS]

  shop warn ya when he was 21 years old we [TS]

  used to joke like that 21 is like 45 in [TS]

  punk rock earrings there but in fact he [TS]

  made it through the looking glass and [TS]

  now he looks amazing for like a [TS]

  forty-four-year-old because he's you [TS]

  know he's slim he's still he's still [TS]

  pretty well groomed I mean he was he was [TS]

  smoking a cigarette in the walking down [TS]

  the street in the middle of the day and [TS]

  I was like yeah smoking a cigarette [TS]

  wow I like that that's still a that's [TS]

  still think that that people can do they [TS]

  can still be smoking cigarettes like [TS]

  that i guess it was the amazing thing [TS]

  was like when we were 21 [TS]

  it was very easy for a lot of us to [TS]

  adopt a kind of like i don't care i am [TS]

  trying to kill myself who cares right [TS]

  I'm just gonna just die who cares if I [TS]

  get cancer i'm not going to live that [TS]

  long anyway that gonna happen fast like [TS]

  when you're 45 and you have a kid and [TS]

  you're still like yeah whatever out his [TS]

  keep smoking until it a brighter light [TS]

  in here I feel like I stepped on [TS]

  something that's like our house our [TS]

  house it looks like like solid 13 have [TS]

  so many bright lights because i don't [TS]

  want to step on Lego and fall down and [TS]

  hit my head I just glancing Lee hit the [TS]

  edge of the tape [TS]

  blind eye and a freak accident there it [TS]

  is that's it that's punk rock now [TS]

  whatever happened to Merlin oh yeah he [TS]

  slipped on a gummy bear fell down the [TS]

  stairs little tiny Brown Legos [TS]

  yep he had a premonition yeah he stepped [TS]

  on it got lodged under his toenail and [TS]

  then he died of an infection i do think [TS]

  about I don't talking about cause it [TS]

  freaked me out but I i do sometimes [TS]

  think we'll see things unrelated out [TS]

  first of all I don't want to die in a [TS]

  freaky way if it can be avoided [TS]

  I would rather not die in some ways it's [TS]

  super hard to explain I don't wanna die [TS]

  at all if I could avoid it but you know [TS]

  I understand it's probably you know [TS]

  somebody has to deal with eventually or [TS]

  something that's a little harder to the [TS]

  second part is a little harder to [TS]

  maintain but also i mean you know I this [TS]

  dig in and this is just a credit to my [TS]

  incredible level of self-absorption that [TS]

  I don't periodically just stop and think [TS]

  I wonder if my friends who were my age [TS]

  and high school are my age now [TS]

  oh yeah in my head they're there maybe [TS]

  30 they maybe they added a couple belt [TS]

  notches what skills and their old people [TS]

  it seems the user this like this Vulcan [TS]

  meaning that happens to men when but [TS]

  it's just like you seems probable they [TS]

  come in the the inter like sting and [TS]

  exit like burying our Conan like it [TS]

  would be and I don't understand how got [TS]

  you see them and and it's like okay you [TS]

  didn't get fat you're not fat now but [TS]

  somehow you look you look wider in every [TS]

  respect your neck is wider like cottager [TS]

  how did your skull get wider yes they [TS]

  just look they look like stretch to see [TS]

  like a pair of pair of eyes a pair of a [TS]

  19-year old pair of eyes somewhere in [TS]

  there looking out buried in a yeah and [TS]

  I'm you immediately meet mask of shit [TS]

  but well I was at the i was at the [TS]

  playground the other day and there were [TS]

  a bunch of dads and they were playing [TS]

  baseball they were teaching their sons [TS]

  to play baseball and the sun's ranged in [TS]

  age I think the youngest was probably 4 [TS]

  and the whole this was maybe six or [TS]

  seven and it wasn't t-ball that the dad [TS]

  was there was there was a a beardy dad [TS]

  and he was actually pitching the ball [TS]

  and these kids were getting hits running [TS]

  the bases they were fielding like that [TS]

  this was a dedicated [TS]

  a group of dads who were like on the [TS]

  field with their kids like you know go [TS]

  let's do it you know throw to second [TS]

  throw to second I mean it wasn't like it [TS]

  wasn't nobody was like really yelling at [TS]

  the kids but they were taking baseball [TS]

  something very focused like where [TS]

  there's a game we're playing here [TS]

  there's a structure to this you must [TS]

  address this is how you you need to [TS]

  learn this game if you're going to be a [TS]

  boy in the world and so i'm watching [TS]

  this game and I'm thinking like a thank [TS]

  God I have a daughter so that I don't [TS]

  have to be so I feel no pressure to be [TS]

  down yelling at her to like round [TS]

  seconds right but also watching the dads [TS]

  I was like wait a minute [TS]

  these guys are my age like some of these [TS]

  guys are younger than me even [TS]

  and they all look old they never liked [TS]

  that guy looks exactly like Bob Balaban [TS]

  and he's totally younger than me look at [TS]

  the van last I look like the bad guy [TS]

  that guy over there like yeah he looks [TS]

  like Tony millionaire like this guy [TS]

  looks like Bukowski and these people are [TS]

  these are my peers and they're yelling [TS]

  at their kid about baseball and yeah and [TS]

  then I did I suddenly like it was one of [TS]

  those things where I looked at my [TS]

  reflection in a puddle of the guard [TS]

  escort think that you just as the just [TS]

  slightly undulating I was like wait a [TS]

  minute into the image the image that [TS]

  water stills I'm not all like that [TS]

  they're so that I didn't have to sit [TS]

  down had to sit down and take a to get [TS]

  my inhaler out so yeah terrifying saw [TS]

  definitely diggin on Portlandia he looks [TS]

  amazing but don't is really easy i like [TS]

  the way that guy carries himself and [TS]

  he's carved out of mahogany me who he is [TS]

  a suave motherfuckers just say he's very [TS]

  looks very slender and very fit and he [TS]

  just seems very focused i really admire [TS]

  it he's extremely focused and and a very [TS]

  bright [TS]

  he's very bright guy yeah and you know [TS]

  and in some ways like maybe he would be [TS]

  a great [TS]

  example of like a hollow of a of a [TS]

  fitness a mentor [TS]

  it's like okay Duff is stuff is 50 now [TS]

  and still in amazing shape and still [TS]

  like youthful in every regard like don't [TS]

  don't let yourself turn into Bukowski [TS]

  supplemented esa instead chase after the [TS]

  shooting star of definite case the Duff [TS]

  yeah yeah you remember that old anecdote [TS]

  about the two guys are going to the [TS]

  theoretical jungle on that needs [TS]

  Tigerstar's Karen asked ordem and [TS]

  theoretical tiger [TS]

  yes the theoretical tiger of the [TS]

  anecdote and now we'll get you running [TS]

  any other guys what are you doing [TS]

  you're not going out on a tiger he says [TS]

  I don't have to but I just got outrun [TS]

  you [TS]

  yeah I said that's actually in Alaska we [TS]

  say out running out on the bear huh you [TS]

  don't run the bear if you stepped on run [TS]

  you through a great gag sorry that [TS]

  over-explain oh thank you thank you for [TS]

  clarifying that [TS]

  um but I just gotta say I think that [TS]

  when you get to be like any kind of an [TS]

  agent guru or or sports person or [TS]

  anything someone they were you really [TS]

  like part of what you do requires that [TS]

  somebody look up to you i think you just [TS]

  need to look a little better than most [TS]

  other people like if you're a guru like [TS]

  if you're the thing is think about like [TS]

  cannot check later that's gonna create [TS]

  an example but like you know you don't [TS]

  have to be there are so many [TS]

  categorically handsome people in their [TS]

  twenties and thirties and I've never [TS]

  really drops off after 40 [TS]

  well here's an interesting thing I [TS]

  experienced the other day I went to a [TS]

  meeting downtown and with the mayor of [TS]

  Seattle it was our my first official [TS]

  meeting with the mayor john goes to the [TS]

  mayor john goes to the bear and I'm [TS]

  there with the rest of the Seattle music [TS]

  commission so there's like 10 of us on [TS]

  one side of the table and then the mayor [TS]

  the deputy mayor the assistant deputy [TS]

  mayor the assistant deputy the deputy [TS]

  mayor [TS]

  they're all on one of the other side of [TS]

  the table and we're talking about [TS]

  striking out Seattle we're talking about [TS]

  the future of Seattle some of the [TS]

  waterfront talked about a lot of big [TS]

  projects schools cellphone and in [TS]

  anticipation of going downtown I put on [TS]

  a suit because a I collect suits even [TS]

  though i have no use for them and be [TS]

  because I don't work I spend most of the [TS]

  day just naked walking around in a [TS]

  bathrobe swinging a sword and so when I [TS]

  have a reason to consider many of [TS]

  America's unemployed but I have a reason [TS]

  to go down [TS]

  I can't bring a sword to the mayor's [TS]

  office first of all and it's like oh I'm [TS]

  going downtown I have a meeting i'm [TS]

  going to put on a suit I'm gonna like be [TS]

  a guy who gets dressed up in as close to [TS]

  go down to have an important meeting [TS]

  with everybody so I get there and the [TS]

  first thing about living in the West San [TS]

  Francisco is the same in seattle in this [TS]

  regard is that really you judge the most [TS]

  important person in the room by how [TS]

  shabbily he's dressed right like the [TS]

  millions of the billionaires in seattle [TS]

  all show up to the finest restaurants in [TS]

  town in cargo shorts and fleece check [TS]

  its it sounds like a really stupid [TS]

  cliche but in my experience it's very [TS]

  true [TS]

  yea even even like another scene like I [TS]

  couldn't pick Paul Allen out of a lineup [TS]

  but even when you see guys who like an [TS]

  adventure capital places [TS]

  sure you might seem just wearing fleece [TS]

  but you're never going to see them [TS]

  wearing like a three-piece suit that [TS]

  that looks like somebody trying to get a [TS]

  job [TS]

  yeah Paul Allen looks like a the the [TS]

  pile of clothes at the bottom of the [TS]

  locker like Paul Allen just is like a [TS]

  bit too he's just a pile wherever he [TS]

  goes and that's true of everybody like [TS]

  you going to you go into a nice [TS]

  restaurant in Seattle and the [TS]

  best-dressed people in there are the [TS]

  waiters you know right and so I'm [TS]

  sitting in this i'm sitting in this [TS]

  meeting and I've got a tie and a shirt [TS]

  and a and a and [TS]

  suit and some nice shoes and I comb my [TS]

  hair and I'm looking around and [TS]

  everybody else on the music panel uh you [TS]

  know looks like a looks like a dump [TS]

  truck ran into a hot topic haha and the [TS]

  mayor and his like people who have to [TS]

  wear suits are wearing the I have to [TS]

  wear a suit suit you know there's a kind [TS]

  of suit that there's a kind of suit that [TS]

  a public server blade is the kind of [TS]

  thing like the costume that your [TS]

  professor wears to graduation like [TS]

  represents their University you know [TS]

  talking about yeah it's pretty looking [TS]

  like Oxford thing with a funny hat [TS]

  medallion [TS]

  yeah I would never wear this unless I [TS]

  absolutely had to yeah he's got 11 gold [TS]

  stripes on one side and 14 purple [TS]

  stripes on the other receptor so what [TS]

  these suits i'm studying the suits of [TS]

  the bear and his staff and what the [TS]

  suits are meant to communicate is I am [TS]

  required to wear a suit out of respect [TS]

  for the office but I'm also a man of the [TS]

  people and so I'm not wearing a nice [TS]

  suit or a fancy suit or like a certainly [TS]

  not a chic suit i am wearing a I'm [TS]

  wearing unaffordable suit EG Telegraph [TS]

  many different messages up and down and [TS]

  sideways by what you choose to where you [TS]

  have to it's really it's really politic [TS]

  about what you wear right so let's [TS]

  simply just you want to look powerful [TS]

  you can't look too powerful exactly and [TS]

  when you see a politician or you know [TS]

  about a person in public service who was [TS]

  wearing a really nice suit like an [TS]

  expensive slick suit you automatically [TS]

  distrust that person and the ill-fitting [TS]

  cheap suit kind of is a nanite and I [TS]

  think even even when politicians get to [TS]

  be like very very powerful rich people [TS]

  who are having suits made for them they [TS]

  get them made in a kind of boxy cut with [TS]

  an unfashionable line you know I mean [TS]

  that's a shiny nobody's getting really a [TS]

  mom [TS]

  mr. right you don't want to look like a [TS]

  monster but you also don't want to look [TS]

  like yeah you don't want to look like [TS]

  you're to Hollywood [TS]

  so anyway I'm sitting in this meeting [TS]

  and I'm looking around and I'm like I am [TS]

  a fucking bar be in here I i am the I'm [TS]

  the person that everyone in the room is [TS]

  going to instinctively take less [TS]

  seriously because I got dressed up for [TS]

  this meeting and in fact got dressed up [TS]

  in the style of a person that never gets [TS]

  to wear his fancy fancy clothes so I'm [TS]

  hear him by i'm here in my suit with my [TS]

  I'm wearing it like a you know I wore a [TS]

  collar bar and I wore on time in and I [TS]

  you know I'm like I'm fucking paul f [TS]

  tompkins in here the only thing missing [TS]

  is a watch fob and I realized like oh I [TS]

  can't keep doing this because I you know [TS]

  I I want to walk up to the mirror after [TS]

  this and tell him my plan for a new [TS]

  police academy that I have that I've [TS]

  been slowly percolating in my mind and [TS]

  and they're just not going to their [TS]

  instinctively going to dismiss me as a [TS]

  as a pop or yes let's say like a [TS]

  Victorian avoid going to a fancy feet [TS]

  exactly what I'm what I'm trad [TS]

  telegraphing is that I am an amateur and [TS]

  and I look around at the rest of the the [TS]

  music Commission and everybody's like [TS]

  you know there's a guy who when he was [TS]

  buttoning a shirt he got the buttons [TS]

  wrong so it's like it [TS]

  this is one button is up above his [TS]

  collar and one is down you know and [TS]

  there and and like the gals are all [TS]

  sheep but they're all chic you know kind [TS]

  of comfortable with that answer [TS]

  that's so super tricky what kind of [TS]

  person shoes and like like it there's so [TS]

  much that people especially other women [TS]

  can read into somebody's stressed and [TS]

  what they are trying to Telegraph the [TS]

  thing is exclusively other women men [TS]

  have no like I am pretty fashion aware [TS]

  and I have their I'm capable of decoding [TS]

  at all and ninety-nine percent of the [TS]

  men in the world who are just wearing [TS]

  white athletics you like oh that that [TS]

  looks really sharp like her clothes fit [TS]

  and she looks awesome [TS]

  but I'm 11000 mark that's Marc by Marc [TS]

  Jacobs ya gonna do what I mean you're [TS]

  really wearing topshop to this event [TS]

  Wow molds or whatever game they're [TS]

  playing with each other but I mean no [TS]

  they they all look great but none of [TS]

  them are none of them are pretty what [TS]

  they are projecting is we are women in [TS]

  powerful positions in our respective our [TS]

  respective realms and so we do not have [TS]

  to wear like way better have to look [TS]

  like like Sigourney Weaver in working [TS]

  girl right the stuff has to be tailored [TS]

  enough just enough because we live in [TS]

  Seattle yeah and so so now i'm now I [TS]

  have this additional I was having a lot [TS]

  of fun the last couple of years like [TS]

  buying suits at thrift stores i would [TS]

  find these old suits and be like this [TS]

  suit is amazing i have to have it and I [TS]

  would take it and then I got a tailor [TS]

  and I was like you got a tailored suit [TS]

  because I wanted to be like this and the [TS]

  entire time conscious of course but [TS]

  there's no occasion for me to wear a [TS]

  suit [TS]

  ninety-eight percent of the time I you [TS]

  know I I mean certainly around the house [TS]

  I'm I'm just dressed like a saturday [TS]

  night live cast member in 1977 and then [TS]

  when i go out that cocaine sink a [TS]

  topknot and a cocaine sink and then when [TS]

  i go out i'm i'm generally like head to [TS]

  toe in wall because I'm never sure that [TS]

  that an electromagnetic pulse isn't [TS]

  gonna knock out all the computers that [TS]

  run our cars and smart and I'm gonna [TS]

  have to make it to the amount have to [TS]

  make it to the hill country before [TS]

  people start eating each other not gonna [TS]

  wear a fucking suit if it's got to its [TS]

  subtle what [TS]

  so what are my occasions to wear a suit [TS]

  I thought oh now I'm a big shot in the [TS]

  city government right now and now I [TS]

  can't wear suits to that either but you [TS]

  might like email look at you thinking [TS]

  hey you're probably thinking like you [TS]

  might look a little eccentric or [TS]

  artistic but that's the environment [TS]

  right it's all right isn't that but it's [TS]

  nice to come up costumey do you think [TS]

  was a [TS]

  old beyond costumey but here's the funny [TS]

  thing I've been going to these cocktail [TS]

  parties or having meetings with the [TS]

  people on the Art Commission and I [TS]

  realized the people on the Art [TS]

  Commission are all dressed like it like [TS]

  we're in a Fellini movie like the music [TS]

  Commission the music Commission just [TS]

  they grab their clothes from the free [TS]

  pile as they're leaving their apartment [TS]

  building on the way to work like Oh idea [TS]

  scarf what's in the free pile of the [TS]

  Arts Commission like dudes are seriously [TS]

  wearing a Scots models but people have [TS]

  those Italian shoes that are so pointy [TS]

  that they become like like polly achi [TS]

  shoes right i mean so really the people [TS]

  that I need to cuddle up to or the arts [TS]

  people like you know painters and and [TS]

  and the like the Opera people or [TS]

  whatever they really dress like like [TS]

  fruit cakes because it's what I not [TS]

  mention that much at stake at this means [TS]

  i'm guessing [TS]

  oh no people you know this is this has [TS]

  to be true in San Francisco to I think [TS]

  it's true all around the world but [TS]

  whatever it was 25 years ago when they [TS]

  started started instituting that one [TS]

  percent for art business it's like well [TS]

  we're going to rebuild the freeway and [TS]

  it's a 500 million dollar project and [TS]

  the legislature put this one percent for [TS]

  art clause in all public projects which [TS]

  means one percent of the total budget of [TS]

  like epic projects has to be set aside [TS]

  for there to be an art component right [TS]

  which is why there's so much [TS]

  publicly-funded massive sculpture in big [TS]

  cities like you go downtown it's like [TS]

  wow there's a huge stainless steel donut [TS]

  now in front of the city hall where did [TS]

  that come from and why it's like oh [TS]

  because we because we built a tunnel [TS]

  under the bay and it costs a billion [TS]

  dollars and so I [TS]

  up one percent of that was yeah you know [TS]

  it's like a rounding error that's that's [TS]

  pretty serious doubt for that kind of [TS]

  community millions and millions and so [TS]

  that and then of course it's like oh [TS]

  this is for art and immediately no one [TS]

  want you know I immediately like no one [TS]

  in government wants to have anything to [TS]

  do with it because art is a lightning [TS]

  rod from for people to be furious and so [TS]

  that's why you even have a heart [TS]

  Commission you put a bunch of people in [TS]

  a Scots around a table and you and you [TS]

  dump this this uh I got like a logic [TS]

  basket full of money [TS]

  yeah like a duffel bag full of cash and [TS]

  you're like okay this is that this is [TS]

  the rounding error from the latest [TS]

  tunnel project figure out how to [TS]

  disperses and then these guys you know [TS]

  and they all have their that they have [TS]

  glad they're all wearing glasses that [TS]

  make my most outrageous pair of glasses [TS]

  look like something from front that's [TS]

  something that you've got a costco like [TS]

  you know guys that speak with the time [TS]

  axis that have classes that are bigger [TS]

  than their head and there then so they [TS]

  the Arts Commission has cash they have [TS]

  real money interesting and they and we [TS]

  be incredible you're queer community [TS]

  interfacing with them our committee is [TS]

  interfacing I had a cat are you [TS]

  Entre Nous with them well it is where a [TS]

  little where we are trying to the new [TS]

  are trying to entree with them in the [TS]

  sense that they have seniority the Arts [TS]

  Commission is 50 years old whereas the [TS]

  music Commission is five years old so [TS]

  there's a little bit of they don't they [TS]

  don't appear to be condescending to us [TS]

  but there is a little bit of like they [TS]

  have a long history of dealing with lots [TS]

  and lots of money and we are just like [TS]

  hey one of the things you could do with [TS]

  that money is given to us [TS]

  and then that then there's a long pause [TS]

  everybody looks at their fingernails [TS]

  we'll see we'll see what I've got to [TS]

  establish myself as a serious member of [TS]

  this organization in order that that [TS]

  some of my larger plans be put into [TS]

  place and I'm not going to get there by [TS]

  like mincing in my would like but my [TS]

  lavender shirt in my collar bar love [TS]

  that word [TS]

  I'm gonna have to i'm gonna have to [TS]

  start you know what it is i think i [TS]

  might wear a suit but not a tie that [TS]

  communicates that communicates a lot of [TS]

  this like a little bit mr. Furley well [TS]

  no I'm not wearing a leisure see ok just [TS]

  one piece suit [TS]

  hi no I'm gonna like we're gonna we're [TS]

  exes a sharp suit but then my shirt open [TS]

  and that's the kind of like yeah I know [TS]

  you just mean like one button [TS]

  yeah I'm not like open to my table i [TS]

  don't know i think that that that's [TS]

  something they're gonna have to really [TS]

  think about if they see the heck they [TS]

  would have to think if you look really [TS]

  good in your shoes are shined like you [TS]

  saying your hair's your shirt is open to [TS]

  your navel in meetings to discuss on [TS]

  away scratching yourself but what's a [TS]

  good talk about the easement for how [TS]

  could we should talk about my plan for [TS]

  the police [TS]

  you're all under arrest I have a very [TS]

  good plan for the police [TS]

  haha no really do you know we talked [TS]

  about the police not very long ago yeah [TS]

  we got a lot of nice feedback about that [TS]

  i have a pea that but but strangely none [TS]

  from police fraternal organizations [TS]

  great [TS]

  but my plan my plan for the police for [TS]

  Seattle and I think this i think this [TS]

  will work all across the country is I [TS]

  think part of the problem of the [TS]

  militarization of the police has been [TS]

  the suburbanization of the police the [TS]

  cops when you when you when you talk to [TS]

  any individual Cobb the cops and the [TS]

  firemen all live in the suburbs now [TS]

  right [TS]

  they didn't get away from the crime [TS]

  exactly they pursue the American Dream [TS]

  and cop culture and firemen culture is [TS]

  suburbanite culture which is [TS]

  intrinsically suspicious of people who [TS]

  live in the city and you know and it [TS]

  fosters a kind of racist like outer rain [TS]

  contempt and dislike for poor people and [TS]

  people who live in town and so my plan [TS]

  for the for the modernization and like [TS]

  read integration of the cops is that [TS]

  every city should build a police academy [TS]

  in the heart of town room because the [TS]

  magnet school kind of thing right [TS]

  exactly like I think part of the problem [TS]

  with the cops too is that we've started [TS]

  to think about police as being a job [TS]

  that requires a four-year degree and [TS]

  this is this is a subset of a larger [TS]

  problem which is the inflation the [TS]

  four-year degree inflation we're now [TS]

  like if you want to if you want to [TS]

  manage a ziebart you have to have a [TS]

  four-year degree like if you want to if [TS]

  you want to be the person in charge of [TS]

  the Froyo machine at the at the cold [TS]

  stone creamery after four year degree if [TS]

  you want anything that requires a key [TS]

  right pretty much you won't ever bring [TS]

  your keys and just anything like we're [TS]

  let you have anything that isn't like [TS]

  when i worked at McDonald's and there's [TS]

  a button you hit that within which means [TS]

  i put the meat down and we'll tell you [TS]

  when it's time to flip it was [TS]

  somersaulted and so on so forth [TS]

  it was actually literally idiot-proof if [TS]

  you want a job more than that today you [TS]

  can get a college degree and that's [TS]

  really fucked up [TS]

  it's really fucked up because a you [TS]

  don't need a college degree had be also [TS]

  guarantee of anything it's not and then [TS]

  what what that massive influx of people [TS]

  in colleges has done is make colleges [TS]

  worthless like colleges are doing [TS]

  college job now and and and and it [TS]

  became a thing I think it became a thing [TS]

  in the last 50 years that that people in [TS]

  politics were able to say like college [TS]

  we want everyone to have an opportunity [TS]

  to go to college and it was a it was an [TS]

  easy thing to say a harder thing to do [TS]

  but it was a thing that it was a thing [TS]

  in public life that they could direct [TS]

  money and resources and a lot of like a [TS]

  lot of glad-handing attention to [TS]

  we're going to make colleges accessible [TS]

  to everyone and so what they did was not [TS]

  make a a grand college education [TS]

  accessible to everyone they just make [TS]

  college stupid so that everybody could [TS]

  get into it and so my thinking is one of [TS]

  the things that we don't need is cops [TS]

  that went to college [TS]

  really they don't need to go to college [TS]

  they need to go to a great police [TS]

  academy right a curriculum / me huh [TS]

  would be with the police academy located [TS]

  in the center of town in the heart of [TS]

  town so that every day you see the young [TS]

  police treat trainees in there [TS]

  what I would hope would be like easter [TS]

  egg colored sweats and they're running [TS]

  up and they're doing their calisthenics [TS]

  and you're starting out with a little [TS]

  bit of humility is that the idea you [TS]

  know what I mean breaking down to earth [TS]

  they're running around the town they're [TS]

  doing a literal funny years with a badge [TS]

  on them they're doing they're doing [TS]

  their pull-ups or whatever in the bus [TS]

  stations and we and we all get to see [TS]

  the young tops and training and they are [TS]

  living with us and their dormitories are [TS]

  right there in the town and so by the [TS]

  time I by the time a young police person [TS]

  an aspiring police person graduates to [TS]

  become a badge officer [TS]

  they are inculcated in the language and [TS]

  culture of the city they intend to [TS]

  police there already and a resident of [TS]

  an urban neighborhood that's right they [TS]

  live in the town and they are their [TS]

  members of the town and they have [TS]

  trained in the town so they're not out [TS]

  at some firing range boot camp out in [TS]

  BFE right and they're not they're not [TS]

  being indoctrinated into a culture that [TS]

  lives outside of the city and is and is [TS]

  inherently hostile to the city so [TS]

  interesting because it really is it's [TS]

  like something from a Bruce Lee movie [TS]

  where you go to this almost like this [TS]

  guarded temple and everything happens in [TS]

  private be very interesting to have [TS]

  something not just on honestly not just [TS]

  in into like embarrassed people or [TS]

  something but be kind of interesting to [TS]

  have in the middle of the city and where [TS]

  people could observe it while it's [TS]

  happening exactly by transparency [TS]

  because the concept of policing is is [TS]

  very very basic like the cops themselves [TS]

  are not do not have power their power is [TS]

  the power that we grab them to police us [TS]

  because we need it because we are big [TS]

  monkeys and so we say collectively yes [TS]

  we need someone to call we need to we [TS]

  need to put somebody in a position where [TS]

  we can call them and we need help and [TS]

  these are the people who you know we're [TS]

  going to a point to that we want them to [TS]

  be young and strong and fleet of foot [TS]

  and but also like smart enough and [TS]

  empowered just enough to be able to make [TS]

  judgment calls but just be people and [TS]

  we're going to be smarter people write [TS]

  this the people part is important and [TS]

  even though we acknowledge yeah I [TS]

  precisely and I mean even though we [TS]

  acknowledge that we want to be police we [TS]

  went up by these rules and we want [TS]

  recourse if something happens i think [TS]

  that it's also it's it doesn't mean that [TS]

  we're prepared you know so much 0 or 1 [TS]

  black-and-white kind of thinking about [TS]

  these things [TS]

  it's not saying that we are willingly ok [TS]

  when in exchange we will no longer have [TS]

  a civil society where we understand what [TS]

  rules are enforced the way they are like [TS]

  if I want if I'm gonna be able to call [TS]

  somebody when somebody steals my [TS]

  marijuana [TS]

  I somebody like parked in my space that [TS]

  means i'm willing to live in a police [TS]

  state [TS]

  that's well yeah right exactly at that's [TS]

  what John has pretty good [TS]

  well then what got me thinking was I was [TS]

  I was driving along the other day with [TS]

  my daughter and every time a fire truck [TS]

  goes by or policemen goes by with their [TS]

  lights on she's very curious what's [TS]

  going on and I always say well the [TS]

  fireman is going to help somebody or the [TS]

  policeman is going to help somebody and [TS]

  all of that is part of the part of the [TS]

  like cultural relation that happened to [TS]

  me when I was growing up which is to be [TS]

  taught that the police are there to help [TS]

  you and the firemen are there to help [TS]

  you get help and protect you something [TS]

  happens but you also wanted to know that [TS]

  if something happens you can go to [TS]

  somebody in a uniform and tell them [TS]

  about it exactly like the police on the [TS]

  fire department are our friends and they [TS]

  are there to help us so i'm driving [TS]

  along i'm describing the store and she [TS]

  knows this pretty well now and then I [TS]

  realize the tremendous gulf between the [TS]

  experience that I've had my whole life [TS]

  even even during the many years when I [TS]

  was like fuck the police man believes [TS]

  you but you look in cops man who are [TS]

  like trying to like come down on us in [TS]

  like you know they represent the man and [TS]

  come down on us [TS]

  yeah Freddy hops man even all those [TS]

  years when I was like when I was [TS]

  socially hostile to the cops as part of [TS]

  my rock and roll under underbelly like I [TS]

  also understood very clearly that [TS]

  recourse to the law was a thing that [TS]

  what was a was not a right but that it [TS]

  it it involved it was it was a [TS]

  participatory [TS]

  aspect of citizenship and if you were [TS]

  ever going to call the cops you had [TS]

  better also hold up your end of the [TS]

  bargain by being a like for the most [TS]

  part law abiding and a citizen and and [TS]

  the and the contempt i have for most [TS]

  people is the selective citizenship [TS]

  words like they call the cops and the [TS]

  fire department when they need help but [TS]

  then they refused to pay their taxes or [TS]

  they're both they're you know they're [TS]

  bullies or they are greedy or they are [TS]

  cheaters in every other aspect of expect [TS]

  they expect to be extraordinarily [TS]

  protected by the police what other [TS]

  people are basically exposed to whatever [TS]

  kind of Russia kicking punk flipping [TS]

  bullshit people feel like doing on a [TS]

  given Saturday night [TS]

  right right i mean isn't that kind of it [TS]

  that's the real inequality in some ways [TS]

  is I get extraordinary protection [TS]

  because of this and you get treated that [TS]

  way because well because of that right [TS]

  and and what and I guess the what was [TS]

  happening to me the other day the brain [TS]

  flip that I was experiencing was I was [TS]

  sitting here teaching my daughter this [TS]

  thing that I feel is fundamental which [TS]

  is the police and fire departments are [TS]

  there to help you and then I reflected [TS]

  upon the fact that there are large [TS]

  communities of citizens in my own City [TS]

  who do not see the police that way and [TS]

  that the father's in those communities [TS]

  are forced to teach their daughters a [TS]

  healthy suspicion of the police like be [TS]

  careful around the police is kind of the [TS]

  gentlest way that they probably have to [TS]

  describe it and I'm sure there are [TS]

  plenty of families where the lesson from [TS]

  a very young ages avoid the police at [TS]

  all costs like the police are not your [TS]

  friends the police will hurt you if they [TS]

  get a chance to see a kind of a kind of [TS]

  them sleeping giant like the right don't [TS]

  don't just better better to just go take [TS]

  care of this yeah because executive [TS]

  consequences way beyond getting your [TS]

  redress if you have problems call a [TS]

  family member call you know like run to [TS]

  someone who looks like us but whatever [TS]

  you do do not attract the attention of [TS]

  the police because it never ends well [TS]

  and to imagine to imagine you know [TS]

  myself sharing a city and a culture and [TS]

  anna and a civic life with with groups [TS]

  of fellow Americans who do not have the [TS]

  same recourse to the law and do not feel [TS]

  this do not feel that the police are [TS]

  there to help them in my hand and as as [TS]

  my daughter gets older I will for sure [TS]

  say like don't mouth off to the police [TS]

  the police are the police are idiots [TS]

  let's be honest like they are typically [TS]

  24 year olds with criminal justice [TS]

  degrees who have been who are in culture [TS]

  rated to be unreflecting with father [TS]

  issues right there like I'm going to [TS]

  think that sometimes like you I [TS]

  absolutely they're there they're working [TS]

  out something way beyond criminal [TS]

  justice right now [TS]

  well and the and the problem is that [TS]

  within the culture that is teaching them [TS]

  and training them that is encouraged you [TS]

  know that their lieutenants and their [TS]

  captains also have not been fully [TS]

  culture ated they have a they've been [TS]

  allowed to maintain its the problem with [TS]

  the CIA the CIA isn't is somewhat an [TS]

  independent organization and the prayer [TS]

  and they nominally answer to the [TS]

  president but in fact presidents come [TS]

  and go and the CIA remains and so the [TS]

  CIA is not and does not feel answerable [TS]

  to anybody and it maintains this inner [TS]

  culture that over time has become [TS]

  infected and now CIA is separate from [TS]

  the the separate from the balance of [TS]

  power that keeps our governments table [TS]

  and and they become and and then they [TS]

  end up as a rogue organization and to [TS]

  bring them to heel requires it like an [TS]

  incredible amount of will from the [TS]

  Congress and and the executive and it's [TS]

  a it's it's will bit so do they sell [TS]

  them Express you know and and it's going [TS]

  to take a certain amount of what feels [TS]

  like futzing around where rather just [TS]

  waiting for something [TS]

  it's a huge problem that now we have to [TS]

  cover up or whatever to have an ongoing [TS]

  and get that were transparency and [TS]

  ongoing sense that like we need to [TS]

  really know what's happening and we need [TS]

  to tell people what's happening and we [TS]

  need to make sure that it's what we told [TS]

  people was going to happen right and [TS]

  there needs to be actual effective [TS]

  oversight civilian oversight of these [TS]

  Affairs that is that is 100-percent like [TS]

  a it is not it is not sufficient that [TS]

  your organization investigate itself and [TS]

  declare that you that you have I mean [TS]

  this happens in the Seattle Police [TS]

  Department all the time it happens in [TS]

  the CIA all the time right let's look [TS]

  for security reasons we can't show you [TS]

  what the results are but we'll just tell [TS]

  you turned out great [TS]

  yeah we did an investigation of that [TS]

  thing and we do is we determined that [TS]

  everybody acted properly and except for [TS]

  there was one thing that we could have [TS]

  done better and the appropriate measures [TS]

  were taken and it's just like okay no no [TS]

  no and and two to fire everybody is to [TS]

  just to fire everybody the top is to [TS]

  just then promote the lieutenant's up [TS]

  who raised in the same in the same so [TS]

  what a terrible stuff that I'm and that [TS]

  is that if you think about it that this [TS]

  problem is so out of control that I [TS]

  can't manage anymore so i have to fire [TS]

  everyone and start over but also that [TS]

  well say anything like that be [TS]

  acceptable right and and the only reason [TS]

  that the only reason that we're in that [TS]

  situation is that these organizations [TS]

  continue to recruit and and [TS]

  indoctrinated generation after [TS]

  generation into this into what is [TS]

  essentially like an 11 [TS]

  they are an unbeaten hold and culture [TS]

  anyway so my plan for the my plan [TS]

  long-term for urban police departments [TS]

  is to reintegrate them into urban life [TS]

  and novel and and and ultimately like if [TS]

  you want a promotion in the seattle City [TS]

  Police Department live in Seattle if you [TS]

  want to if you want to get your sergeant [TS]

  stripes live in Seattle don't live in [TS]

  issaquah if you live in issaquah want to [TS]

  join the fucking issaquah police [TS]

  department [TS]

  if you want to live work in the Seattle [TS]

  Police Department and you don't want to [TS]

  live in seattle then we then you're not [TS]

  sergeant material not lieutenant [TS]

  material and that seems like in some [TS]

  ways fundamental I have a good friend [TS]

  who works in the Seattle Fire Department [TS]

  he's a close friend and he describes the [TS]

  culture in the fire stations as because [TS]

  a lot of these guys they're mustache [TS]

  guys you know what I mean they're moving [TS]

  they're living out there living on an [TS]

  acre and a half that they're buying with [TS]

  their you know what their inflated Union [TS]

  salaries and they're out there just a [TS]

  quick message on your listening to the [TS]

  pacifica radio network of this is we are [TS]

  picmonkey with a number on the back [TS]

  after this word from police [TS]

  ah but he characterizes the Seattle [TS]

  Police Department in her culture as [TS]

  being light up like a basically redneck [TS]

  redneck and prepare their mustache guys [TS]

  and they're like you know they go they [TS]

  and and and it's a hard job right there [TS]

  getting people dialing 911 right and a [TS]

  lot of people are dialing 911 just [TS]

  because they're lonely and rather than [TS]

  make friends they pretend they're having [TS]

  a heart attack so that some firemen will [TS]

  come and pet their hair like I remember [TS]

  that one [TS]

  you should try it the good one you know [TS]

  Merlin I call 911 all the time but it's [TS]

  the things are going I got just a report [TS]

  like hey i saw hey i saw a pigeon that [TS]

  was limping hey it's Merlin on [TS]

  hey what's up um I don't have a problem [TS]

  yet about i just wanted to give you an [TS]

  update on a couple front of the fence is [TS]

  still an issue it's leaning a little bit [TS]

  i've had a lot of coffee today I've had [TS]

  so much coffee today I just the [TS]

  self-harm [TS]

  so anyway that's my that's my project [TS]

  that's my reform project but i'm not [TS]

  going to get that i'm not going to get [TS]

  that happening if I'm wearing a tie bar [TS]

  at these meetings in the music committee [TS]

  mr. Roderick is it about these [TS]

  applications and talk but you bring to [TS]

  the fore but don't know someone in this [TS]

  particular the community however so we [TS]

  thank you very much for standing up at [TS]

  this meeting mr. archive ask you just to [TS]

  write all these down and capture more [TS]

  people we're going to pass that along to [TS]

  reinvent community right now haven't we [TS]

  are discussing parking didn't kill your [TS]

  parking George outside showbox looks [TS]

  like that was that was a window right [TS]

  you guys get one man's dedicated parking [TS]

  zone clearly marked you know in in a [TS]

  city you know city lives and dies by its [TS]

  parking boot so in a city if you can get [TS]

  if you can get a handle on the parking [TS]

  if you get if you get your hands around [TS]

  the parking the rest will follow [TS]

  that's right you end up in charge us [TS]

  Clinton said that I believe that's good [TS]

  that's really true it's a that's that's [TS]

  the thing that's why I didn't mean to [TS]

  sound glib about the artistic people [TS]

  with Fellini glasses but in in your case [TS]

  like we help people must take what you [TS]

  guys have to say Skynet is seriously [TS]

  because you're influential people but [TS]

  also it is a there's some commerce [TS]

  involved right it isn't just spending [TS]

  money on a giant bow and arrow you know [TS]

  look at UC San Francisco but the public [TS]

  art is important but but in this case it [TS]

  is also commerce and things that Seattle [TS]

  is well known for like music [TS]

  well yeah I the you don't exaggerate [TS]

  that too much that right but the the [TS]

  problem is that mrs. the thing I think I [TS]

  probably mentioned this before like when [TS]

  though when the Rolling Stones played at [TS]

  the Kingdome [TS]

  there were 50,000 people there and [TS]

  everybody was like that's incredible [TS]

  50,000 people came to see the rolling [TS]

  stones but then the following wednesday [TS]

  50,000 people were there to see the [TS]

  seahawks lose to the bears and you [TS]

  realize oh right 50,000 people there to [TS]

  see The Rolling Stones happens once but [TS]

  50,000 people come to watch that stupid [TS]

  football team again like week every week [TS]

  and and then there's 60,000 people [TS]

  watching the baseball team and a million [TS]

  more in the region Washington on TV and [TS]

  you get a sense that music is me at this [TS]

  is this is very complicated from from [TS]

  the standpoint of a musician but like [TS]

  music is important to us in name only [TS]

  really you know every single person at [TS]

  that football game has heard the rolling [TS]

  stones but like they probably are only [TS]

  earned they don't own three different [TS]

  $60 Rolling Stones jerseys and registers [TS]

  that they're not paying for an iphone [TS]

  app that lets them watch The Rolling [TS]

  Stones every single time that they [TS]

  perform at all [TS]

  that's a really interesting way to look [TS]

  at it and I get into this with people [TS]

  all the time where they're like blah [TS]

  blah albums blah blah music should be [TS]

  free blah blah blah blah blah and I say [TS]

  you know an album a record album that [TS]

  took a year to make cost ten dollars on [TS]

  itunes and it's a record that you may [TS]

  listen to a 500 times in your life as [TS]

  many times you want a device that you've [TS]

  got forever for a ten-dollar ten dollars [TS]

  or you're going to see a movie for [TS]

  fourteen dollars and the movie you will [TS]

  watch once and it lasts an hour [TS]

  and yet people go see movies you know [TS]

  without reflecting and yet buying an [TS]

  album seems like a big like I don't know [TS]

  if I want to go by that album [TS]

  jeez you know like buying an album is is [TS]

  some kind of big investment and so so [TS]

  music is like for those of us who live [TS]

  in in the music world and think about [TS]

  music [TS]

  um it's it's of this its kind of has [TS]

  this preeminent importance but really [TS]

  the way we value it culturally is like [TS]

  it is though it is window dressing [TS]

  ultimately and so when we try and make [TS]

  an economic argument for music it is [TS]

  legit [TS]

  music is a an economic driver but the [TS]

  mayor is leaving the meeting with us and [TS]

  he's going to meet with the [TS]

  representatives of the construction [TS]

  Union and it's just like yeah okay well [TS]

  who we are where were drop in the bucket [TS]

  even if you extend the the reasoning and [TS]

  I think it's powerful reasoning like why [TS]

  do people come to Seattle to work at [TS]

  Microsoft if they could if they can go [TS]

  live in palo alto or san jose why would [TS]

  they choose to come work at amazon or a [TS]

  Seattle tech company and the reason that [TS]

  most of them say is well I want to like [TS]

  Seattle culture i want to be a part of [TS]

  seattle culture [TS]

  uh-huh i want to go to shows i want to [TS]

  be part of the the [TS]

  vibrant kind of musical cultural milia [TS]

  that doesn't exist in san jose and has [TS]

  been in a lot of ways priced out of San [TS]

  Francisco again you can't start a band [TS]

  in san francisco now your boots 5001 [TS]

  through unless you would like to live [TS]

  closer to san jose and Oakland yeah [TS]

  you'd be in oakland right which is a [TS]

  real city [TS]

  Oakland is a fairly fairly real city and [TS]

  super real city hope opens getting a [TS]

  priced out to carry out there so so you [TS]

  can drastically make that economic [TS]

  impact argument to the mayor all the [TS]

  time like what [TS]

  time like what [TS]

  and when people fill out surveys why did [TS]

  I moved to Seattle music is always right [TS]

  at the top of the list but again it's [TS]

  intangible right [TS]

  I you know I i have so many blind spots [TS]

  and cataracts in my life but I feel like [TS]

  two giant cultural holes in my life [TS]

  probably my detriment our video games [TS]

  and sports and videogames I just a [TS]

  couple video games to play on my phone [TS]

  but compared to anybody my age or [TS]

  younger completely off my radar screen i [TS]

  just it is it really it's not even like [TS]

  hospital thing with video games really [TS]

  is it just an eye [TS]

  I'm not interested like it i don't i [TS]

  don't care i don't care about sports [TS]

  I'm actively against sports in some ways [TS]

  but those two things failing to really [TS]

  grok what those two industries uber [TS]

  industries really means to stop 1f when [TS]

  it does occur to me I realize how dumb I [TS]

  am because I had never put sports even [TS]

  in the same i never i just don't think [TS]

  about supports it just doesn't i just i [TS]

  mainly I think about sports somebody [TS]

  mentioned sports i got we're talking [TS]

  about sports that's really dorky but in [TS]

  this case it's so interesting to think [TS]

  about how much money passes through that [TS]

  town whenever there's a sports game [TS]

  going on [TS]

  it's a it's really amazing to think that [TS]

  she thinks like convention and visitors [TS]

  bureau right where you get all this big [TS]

  hit of like 5,000 people going to come [TS]

  stay at all these hotels and stuff like [TS]

  that but i'm guessing i mean your sports [TS]

  teams do pretty well right [TS]

  oh let me see our sports teams [TS]

  I just want a you guys want to make [TS]

  things less yeah there was a big Super [TS]

  Bowl that we want okay sorry sorry i'm [TS]

  sorry i was then and see this is the [TS]

  problem one of the teams that we that we [TS]

  massacred that we really just destroyed [TS]

  humiliated in fact yes so that the city [TS]

  that that team hails from has to spend [TS]

  than the next year just reflects in San [TS]

  Francisco inferiority yeah that's really [TS]

  sad now that's really rough i said i [TS]

  prize at an all-time low now that I've [TS]

  learned we lost the Super Bowl there [TS]

  there are a couple of people I think [TS]

  that listen to the show even play that [TS]

  game to see how we can go without [TS]

  learning who won the superbowl no no [TS]

  couple people who listen to the show who [TS]

  are right now so mad at me that i have [TS]

  reminded them all the time and [TS]

  podcasting on [TS]

  so anyway but that shouldn't you know [TS]

  the thing is it is fascinating to think [TS]

  about because you know in my head you go [TS]

  like Seattle let's take our time let's [TS]

  take our you know we think about why you [TS]

  bring a convention to a town I bet [TS]

  there's OS been felt like an iceberg [TS]

  where we only see the top 10% or [TS]

  whatever it's really so many different [TS]

  dealings and things that go into why [TS]

  somebody ends up in Las Vegas vs. New [TS]

  York vs. philadelphia or wherever but if [TS]

  you have to like socialize it with your [TS]

  group and go hey you know we could do [TS]

  this in Seattle right and their sports [TS]

  ball team won the superbowl like we [TS]

  should go there and they'd be like yeah [TS]

  we could totally catch a new ball game [TS]

  that will show their will see some new [TS]

  ball was gonna throw the fish being dead [TS]

  serious emotional bond serious way [TS]

  well yeah or you may go yeah Seattle [TS]

  that's where the music came from in the [TS]

  black hole sun and whatnot but like [TS]

  that'd be great for banned by the way [TS]

  sons the buckle sons sis [TS]

  hello captured that somebody write this [TS]

  down [TS]

  Wow well I don't know our all I heard [TS]

  did you just recently mentioned that [TS]

  song that Jenna to the the UH RIT [TS]

  mention that song recently what's called [TS]

  was the first hit for saving time [TS]

  no you don't have to go home but you [TS]

  can't stay here know that [TS]

  and that that though that was going on [TS]

  the band's sound with the sound was the [TS]

  first week it first Soundgarden big hit [TS]

  well you're talking to somebody from [TS]

  Seattle i'm going to say that's very [TS]

  different thing this week the onions [TS]

  time studying damn you John Rex with [TS]

  them somebody asked you an interview [TS]

  like what you think of when you think of [TS]

  Seattle music and you pull this song [TS]

  straight out what's the one sherman [TS]

  brothers are you know you know the one I [TS]

  mean uh first began from me or I'll so [TS]

  frustrating was it not shine shine no [TS]

  more than an outright that's what this [TS]

  web the first one didn't make a single [TS]

  rock star [TS]

  hey yeah i'm missing all the garden and [TS]

  looking narrow was it [TS]

  Macarena its sister and it got wiring [TS]

  and others daddy as that guy you know [TS]

  that guy right at you know that guy [TS]

  yeah people think about Soundgarden the [TS]

  lines across your face i drawn with hate [TS]

  um it's got that it's got to be riff oh [TS]

  you know how and all this out [TS]

  that's that is how good you could do the [TS]

  general down that was not their first [TS]

  big hit those later but since this from [TS]

  their bad motor or finger or album right [TS]

  who have really derail myself we got [TS]

  away from cops we got away from your [TS]

  balls anyway like if you said older but [TS]

  the thing is though you get 15 of these [TS]

  people in a room and go hey should we do [TS]

  it in Seattle like one of them's gonna [TS]

  go hell yeah man yasan and everybody [TS]

  else is going to be like no over ball [TS]

  like they've gotta be you know what i [TS]

  mean that's like that's well you think [TS]

  about that 50,000 people all like 50,000 [TS]

  people / 4 because they come in car [TS]

  you're doing well you like capacity [TS]

  every week probably 25 35 dollars per [TS]

  car to park and then everybody gets a [TS]

  wiener dog paddle [TS]

  horn everybody gets a kettle corn [TS]

  there's people drinking beers [TS]

  there's all the jerseys they're selling [TS]

  its massive massive money wave every [TS]

  time one of these voltages planes I just [TS]

  confuse pretty noose without shined yeah [TS]

  pretty nice i just did that did i'm so [TS]

  excited that Britain news is a pretty [TS]

  angry right yeah that was you know that [TS]

  the the ben shephard base era I have to [TS]

  say when they really turned him loose on [TS]

  his bass guitar [TS]

  yeah uh that there are some very [TS]

  powerful bass riffs so I was thinking of [TS]

  was outside so you got thirty-five [TS]

  dollars worth of kettle corn five people [TS]

  in a pot that all arriving first sports [TS]

  a new ball that's right a lot of them [TS]

  are staying in hotels probably probably [TS]

  the 5,000 people that came for the [TS]

  advertising the advertising revenue I [TS]

  script it's crazy and then all the [TS]

  kickbacks elementary all the paper a guy [TS]

  i saw this i saw this is the detail the [TS]

  other day a in association with the fact [TS]

  that mick jagger's longtime girlfriend [TS]

  just recently committed to this sad it [TS]

  was a really tragic and she's telling [TS]

  you she's tall lady and and and that [TS]

  alone made me like have a have a new [TS]

  respect for Mick Jagger I you notice [TS]

  that when guys get to be a certain [TS]

  amount of rich and famous they like [TS]

  these small people small guys they no [TS]

  longer are self-conscious about their [TS]

  height and they're dating women who are [TS]

  like a foot and a half taller than they [TS]

  are like I kind of admire that it's like [TS]

  wow okay well sure why wouldn't you like [TS]

  this girl is amazing and also super tall [TS]

  and that's its own mean about the [TS]

  pictures of them standing next to each [TS]

  other where she is my kind of leaning [TS]

  down like fetish porn it's like giant s [TS]

  porn crazy she's super she's 64 in bare [TS]

  feet crazy but one of the side details [TS]

  in all of that tragic a reporting and i [TS]

  really i really was astonished that he [TS]

  was you [TS]

  it seemed that their relationship was [TS]

  real and he was very seemed really taken [TS]

  back to have [TS]

  stated by the yeah but one of the very [TS]

  side minut side details was that Mick [TS]

  Jagger was worth 200 million dollars i [TS]

  saw this note notated because in our in [TS]

  our culture now you have to you have to [TS]

  append to every mention of somebody [TS]

  famous their age also how much they're [TS]

  worth a hundred percent yes [TS]

  Mick Jagger age 64 estimated estimate [TS]

  has waited with 200 million dollars yeah [TS]

  and you can see in my head yeah that [TS]

  that little detail the only reason it's [TS]

  stuck out was I had just an hour before [TS]

  i read an article that said that an Andy [TS]

  Warhol lithograph of some kind had [TS]

  recently sold at sotheby's 425 million [TS]

  dollars something that's so weird when [TS]

  you have next to each other like that [TS]

  yeah and so that that's exactly right i [TS]

  know but probably made em pop within [TS]

  five years each other [TS]

  I mean that career of the rolling stones [TS]

  and I and andy warhol yeah so yeah when [TS]

  I read the sotheby's story and it was [TS]

  talking about like oh wow we got more [TS]

  than a hundred million dollars for this [TS]

  Andy Warhol thing it's sort of passed by [TS]

  unremarkably in my imagination like oh [TS]

  sure I guess I mean maybe I'm surprised [TS]

  it's not more or whatever or a hundred [TS]

  million dollars i wish i had bought an [TS]

  Andy Warhol when they were only 1 [TS]

  million dollars but it kind of just was [TS]

  like so art is priced x and so I guess [TS]

  there are lots and lots and lots of [TS]

  people who have so much money that a [TS]

  hundred million dollars for a painting [TS]

  feels like I mean clearly paintings like [TS]

  that are being bought for investment [TS]

  purposes yeah like institutions stuff [TS]

  but I mean no Rob I think I think I [TS]

  think the real buyers of that stuff are [TS]

  these billionaire software people & [TS]

  finance ears and Russian oligarchs who [TS]

  are buying that material as a form of [TS]

  one-upsmanship for one another [TS]

  like I can't imagine an institution [TS]

  buying that Andy Warhol painting and [TS]

  justifying it to anybody for a hundred [TS]

  million dollars in his place Benevolent [TS]

  Association exactly yeah the little bit [TS]

  that a new wall secret policeman's other [TS]

  art collection takes other balls but [TS]

  then is but then I read this this this [TS]

  like completely sort of specious [TS]

  reference to Mick Jagger's wealth and [TS]

  then realized like oh 200 million [TS]

  dollars is less than the current lotto [TS]

  ah only you [TS]

  the mega ball your office that's just [TS]

  right there [TS]

  the mega ball is 400 million dollar and [TS]

  Mick Jagger stands atop a mountain in my [TS]

  mind with few others as a as a person [TS]

  who like made his mark on the culture is [TS]

  very important to me and he also feels [TS]

  like unassailably unreachable e rich and [TS]

  successful even accounting for what [TS]

  happened in the early seventies even [TS]

  accounting because I'm all basically [TS]

  their career started over in like [TS]

  nineteen seventy-three right with what [TS]

  ya their money was going to had only [TS]

  remind all no rights no money no [TS]

  anything and even accounting for their [TS]

  like Mick Jagger's abysmal performance [TS]

  in that in that documentary about oh [TS]

  yeah about the rock concert there in San [TS]

  Francisco the speedway them [TS]

  montini rd and ultimate altamonte [TS]

  sympathy for the devil wanting yards [TS]

  including arts people of Vietnam bista [TS]

  uh yeah right [TS]

  uh he was terrible in that movie and it [TS]

  made me and maybe let's do another take [TS]

  baby red do another take me for [TS]

  everything is becoming shattered should [TS]

  do be up there we'll get along [TS]

  hey hey man chill out [TS]

  stabs dabs dab think about the number of [TS]

  2015 about how many 24 year olds in the [TS]

  bay area right now have two hundred [TS]

  million dollars now I don't want to [TS]

  either [TS]

  I don't want to get involved I want to [TS]

  get I want to rent a convention center [TS]

  and get all those 24 year olds in a room [TS]

  and had lecture them for a year [TS]

  no like i want to have that power I want [TS]

  to sit them down i want to i want to [TS]

  show them powerpoint demonstration after [TS]

  powerpoint demonstration was set to it [TS]

  the tall lady who died [TS]

  what does this have to do with just this [TS]

  is how you get the 200 million dollar [TS]

  mark 200 million dollars sorry [TS]

  yeah I there are so many people now with [TS]

  two hundred million dollars who don't [TS]

  deserve it you haven't earned its 200 [TS]

  million dollars has become and honestly [TS]

  i can say that without fear of [TS]

  contradiction have not earned it the [TS]

  fact that they wrote flappy bird app or [TS]

  you know worth it's where the fourth [TS]

  tell you everything I want to hear more [TS]

  more things you know about the diplomat [TS]

  the fourth they were the fourth employee [TS]

  of the fuckin toilet brush app or [TS]

  whatever and now there were two hundred [TS]

  million dollars [TS]

  fuck them and fuck this fuck is [TS]

  capitalism that makes this real [TS]

  yes fuck it fuck it fuck it fuck it its [TS]

  there's something seriously immoral [TS]

  about it i don't believe it [TS]

  I don't believe in it and somebody [TS]

  should be arrested [TS]

  yes it should be somebody i think after [TS]

  a week or police academy of the one over [TS]

  by the library where it's going to be I [TS]

  think this should we should maybe kind [TS]

  of let you know this is coming but [TS]

  nothing you definitely an announcement [TS]

  about it but I think as the week's go by [TS]

  your training [TS]

  it's easy enough to get in you get into [TS]

  the building your father to the police [TS]

  had a day five days a week six days a [TS]

  week whatever it is that the doors are [TS]

  open to leave the building you have to [TS]

  solve a crime or maybe help someone like [TS]

  you're not allowed to go home until [TS]

  you've helped somebody like two random [TS]

  days a week [TS]

  you gotta go change a tire or you might [TS]

  have to solve Alec a deadly [TS]

  murder-suicide [TS]

  which ATM alright it's a little bit of [TS]

  okay it's a little bit of like a [TS]

  scouting thing right can't just you have [TS]

  to you have to tie some knots or you [TS]

  have to help us across the street or you [TS]

  have to use your cheap and totes cool [TS]

  criminal justice meet snipe hunting [TS]

  guess I i feel you tried to I feel you [TS]

  trying to direct my attention away from [TS]

  the government of many 604 just about to [TS]

  solve the capitalism we were just about [TS]

  to put hundreds of strangers in a room [TS]

  and do something terrible to them [TS]

  because it made a lot of money [TS]

  yes terrible terrible no been listening [TS]

  to my lecture isn't terrible looks [TS]

  listening and figured that was just the [TS]

  opening act [TS]

  haha I is an abattoir may be fighting [TS]

  shortlist with garbage click that's [TS]

  thought you would be the keynote speaker [TS]

  i would be the I just be softening them [TS]

  up and then you would you would come in [TS]

  and sweep up the right attention then [TS]

  encourage them to each other that's with [TS]

  nails in them all right break at the top [TS]

  5 video games and made them real flappy [TS]

  bird vs toilet brush [TS]

  you have to delete out of la la oh my [TS]

  god ZZTop played here in Seattle last [TS]

  night and I didn't go my gosh I'm kind [TS]

  of surprised i'm a little bit surprised [TS]

  too but it's one of the CCM life before [TS]

  me another one of your favorites i have [TS]

  seen them lives and I was the first time [TS]

  I saw them live [TS]

  I got kicked out of the concert halfway [TS]

  through because some security ape saw me [TS]

  drinking a bottle of peach schnapps [TS]

  and they booted me out and I was about [TS]

  was really upset i was like take the [TS]

  schnapps there are people around me [TS]

  smoking pot like I just brought some [TS]

  snacks with his society there's levels [TS]

  to deescalate you don't just throw me [TS]

  out you take the schnapps amazing a [TS]

  warning shot [TS]

  that's right they grabbed me and they [TS]

  threw me out into the rain so that made [TS]

  me mad [TS]

  particularly since it wasn't even like [TS]

  it's not like I was drinking southern [TS]

  comfort i was drinking peach schnapps I [TS]

  don't even know what the fuck everything [TS]

  you might have just been off-brand know [TS]

  is that it was the era and then the [TS]

  second time i saw him it was like a [TS]

  county fair and Billy Gibbons had that [TS]

  thing I've seen Tom Petty have this [TS]

  problem to which is that they get to be [TS]

  a certain age and they're they're very [TS]

  skinny men tom petty is very skinny only [TS]

  given is also not not fat skin which is [TS]

  a scrawny there's exclusive kind of [TS]

  screening this but what what what I saw [TS]

  in both of these cases and this is maybe [TS]

  one of the problems with standing [TS]

  backstage is that their show costume is [TS]

  not made out of regular clothes [TS]

  by which I mean to say that when they [TS]

  take this when they say thanks greater [TS]

  fox6 no but they are causing you [TS]

  yeah they're wearing like their show [TS]

  pants and their show pants are made to [TS]

  look good from 50 feet away but really [TS]

  they have elastic waistbands like they [TS]

  are sweatpants that there's nothing [TS]

  along Dave RV driving out of yeah [TS]

  there's my parents that have been [TS]

  tailored is like mike mills pants these [TS]

  are like spangly i'm a rockstar pants [TS]

  but with a comfy elastic waist [TS]

  yeah i mean they're like they're like [TS]

  black pants that are made to look like [TS]

  they are stovepipe cowboy pants like gun [TS]

  gunslinger pain a little bit stage [TS]

  presence with a little yeah they got a [TS]

  little stage stiffness [TS]

  but when you see them up close and from [TS]

  behind you realize oh these are like [TS]

  these are comfort waist pants and [TS]

  because all because everybody now is [TS]

  wearing in-ear remote radio monitors or [TS]

  whatever everybody's got a little box a [TS]

  little like a radio receiver on their [TS]

  belt loop and that tends to pull down [TS]

  the elastic know so you get a little [TS]

  glimpse of the small of tom petty's back [TS]

  or the small of Billy Gibbons is back [TS]

  and it's just and this small of their [TS]

  scrawny little back is like covered with [TS]

  a little tangle of white-ass hair and it [TS]

  just feels like nobody was you're gonna [TS]

  see really give us [TS]

  I don't I never wanted to see it [TS]