Roderick on the Line

Ep. 109: "#SuperVan"


  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one [TS]

  platform that makes it fast and easy to [TS]

  create your own professional website [TS]

  portfolio or online store for a free [TS]

  trial and ten percent off anything you [TS]

  by visit squarespace com and enter the [TS]

  offer code supertrain at checkout a [TS]

  better web starts with your website [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello I John I'm Merlin good morning how [TS]

  are you [TS]

  oh it's been a heck of a morning so far [TS]

  what happened just a heck of a darn [TS]

  morning things and stuff things and [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  I'm right now covered in pee what it [TS]

  costs you other people's be yes and it [TS]

  was it was so far free that but I hope [TS]

  you were watching your daughter I was [TS]

  yeah i was watching her i was watching [TS]

  her closely watching her and she was [TS]

  covered with p mm but now I'm covered [TS]

  with that she have a towel you know when [TS]

  it's coming up though okay i'm gonna [TS]

  guess not [TS]

  yeah mm she does she has she has a [TS]

  variety of tells does she does the potty [TS]

  dance that's 10 grabbing of the front [TS]

  part of her underpants another i do that [TS]

  yeah but this was that this was [TS]

  something that happened in the night [TS]

  oh man that then you know dragged down [TS]

  into the next day where are you with [TS]

  that process [TS]

  mm I mean if I could ask or ninety-eight [TS]

  percent of the way there now you know [TS]

  that last 2% like software development [TS]

  all the development goes into that first [TS]

  ninety-eight percent and then the rest [TS]

  goes in the remaining ninety eight [TS]

  percent yeah you're right it could get [TS]

  better math squad that's computer math [TS]

  we've covered that already [TS]

  well we covered that on the lost episode [TS]

  of you look nice today now wait a minute [TS]

  you're gonna confuse now uh every day [TS]

  somebody's born has never seen the for [TS]

  instance that's right every day someone [TS]

  is born who's never had a Reese's Peanut [TS]

  Butter Cup [TS]

  Oh make you can imagine that thank you [TS]

  you know you could still have your first [TS]

  and I do you say reasons reduce a reeses [TS]

  when I was it I I don't have any [TS]

  reasoning for this one as a child said [TS]

  reeses yes in today s a reeses yeah i [TS]

  think somebody I think I heard somebody [TS]

  say reeses enough that I was like okay I [TS]

  get a little-a little tune in my head [TS]

  Reese's peanut butter cups [TS]

  that's a good [TS]

  that is a good tune I miss I miss [TS]

  jingles I really do [TS]

  Yeah right there were so many good [TS]

  jingles was funny up there is that [TS]

  freedom rock turn it up they sitting in [TS]

  lawn chairs when they said that I just [TS]

  don't think so [TS]

  sitting on lawn chairs but on top of a [TS]

  man my last my last year of college I [TS]

  watched a lot of TV for my work and that [TS]

  commercial was on constantly [TS]

  yeah yeah that was a that commercial was [TS]

  a commercial that became a meta a [TS]

  commercial and in the in the culture [TS]

  right i mean that's the type of thing [TS]

  that Kurt Cobain would have said to [TS]

  Chris Cornell backstage at the VMAs they [TS]

  would have been dead three drock mad [TS]

  gonna spray painted on a shirt [TS]

  yep right and now it's now it's all the [TS]

  way so that only old men would even get [TS]

  the reference which was already i'm like [TS]

  a mocking referenced all like tears in [TS]

  rain that's just good like I feel like [TS]

  two guys in their forties sitting around [TS]

  trading commercial jingles from the [TS]

  seventies and eighties is kind of like [TS]

  that's how i'm going to spend the last [TS]

  15 years of my life say sitting with [TS]

  shawn wolfe on a porch somewhere going [TS]

  like we don't have a war to talk about [TS]

  high Bologna and weren't there and [TS]

  everyone Lady Liberty with our book of [TS]

  recipes you don't gotta tell you the [TS]

  schoolhouse rock i can recommend it [TS]

  you know I i still feel like there's so [TS]

  much see my daughter my daughter she's [TS]

  entered stage now where she's stupid [TS]

  because she's what we in the expertise [TS]

  business Colin advanced beginner because [TS]

  she knows just enough to think she knows [TS]

  everything you know you're talking about [TS]

  oh sure a recent quote a recent close do [TS]

  you want to watch this episode of cosmos [TS]

  it's about molecules no I already know [TS]

  literally everything there is to know [TS]

  about molecules a and and and this [TS]

  happens all the time right I'm you know [TS]

  I know you know 3 6 9 12 15 18 like [TS]

  there's still that helped me a lot [TS]

  yeah and jammed in between all of those [TS]

  ABC programs was a child that I want [TS]

  for six hours every saturday morning i [TS]

  learned a thing or two from watching [TS]

  those dumb Schoolhouse Rock things over [TS]

  and over and it's still in my head I i [TS]

  would bet you that people of a certain [TS]

  age I bet if you did some kind of Google [TS]

  Ngram turns out i bet you there is a [TS]

  15-year cohort in there that knows the [TS]

  preamble to the Constitution better than [TS]

  anyone before or since you're right [TS]

  because that's the only reason i can't [TS]

  put anything at length i know john three [TS]

  sixteen i know the preamble to the [TS]

  Constitution because you know I know my [TS]

  Miranda rights not just got to work two [TS]

  roads diverged in a yellow wood and [TS]

  sorry I could not follow both I don't [TS]

  know that there's a bird in a tree up i [TS]

  think that I shall never see a poem [TS]

  lovely as a tree [TS]

  I i miss quite a lot I've taken to I [TS]

  like to source my quotes because I you [TS]

  know basically everybody says Mark Twain [TS]

  has said everything that much I know [TS]

  and he's never said most of it and [TS]

  becomes mad right that are clean said my [TS]

  watches right 2 times a day [TS]

  yeah use that in a song that was a [TS]

  market is there for your son [TS]

  it's super because you know that the [TS]

  preamble to the Constitution the [TS]

  schoolhouse rock actually that that [TS]

  played a very important role in a [TS]

  pivotal moment in my education could [TS]

  interested in sharing it with me [TS]

  well as a matter of fact have I ever [TS]

  told you the story in a seventh grade I [TS]

  so it in Anchorage there were there were [TS]

  in junior high says junior high was 78 [TS]

  as it should be [TS]

  as God intended always a junior high [TS]

  risk middle school habitat changes [TS]

  everything [TS]

  I don't even want to think about what it [TS]

  would be like to go to to go to middle [TS]

  school you know some middle school not [TS]

  to derail you I think middle school [TS]

  would be much easier on a child my [TS]

  goodness that the the difference i mean [TS]

  my gosh what a hellhole seventh grade is [TS]

  listen we're not even we're not even [TS]

  discussing this because clearly those [TS]

  children should not be building trail ya [TS]

  down go ahead of moving right along [TS]

  alright so seventh grade a moving to [TS]

  move into a junior high school and in [TS]

  Anchorage there was a there was a [TS]

  program called packed [TS]

  program for academically and creatively [TS]

  talented and it was one of those like [TS]

  late seventies attempts to segregate the [TS]

  smart kids off where you could you know [TS]

  they were they could play with play-doh [TS]

  or so can have tracks anymore she had to [TS]

  come up with some academic sounding [TS]

  obscure name i was in de o video where [TS]

  do stand for differentiated educational [TS]

  opportunities uh-huh right exactly [TS]

  sounds like the helmet class and Indians [TS]

  in seattle when I left they were [TS]

  pioneering a program called dig which [TS]

  was there ! yea big explanation big [TS]

  difference is one-dimensional interest [TS]

  group or something there yet that was [TS]

  all it was all super suspect and of [TS]

  course when you went away to the pact [TS]

  class and then you came back impact of [TS]

  the digger the do class when you came [TS]

  back to the regular class of course you [TS]

  were hated by everyone because you came [TS]

  back and there was like that yet glue in [TS]

  your hair and it clearly been building [TS]

  rocket ships a differential machine i [TS]

  learned to use the slide my test [TS]

  marketed toys you could dummies [TS]

  anyway when we move into junior high of [TS]

  course that's when you transition to you [TS]

  transition to our long classes that you [TS]

  can move around the school and go to [TS]

  different teachers right in the high [TS]

  school model and yet they maintained a [TS]

  packed programme in the seventh grade [TS]

  and 7th 8th grade so this pact clearly [TS]

  wasn't a thing you could you could have [TS]

  in the high schools but in the junior [TS]

  High's there was still packed but they [TS]

  had put it they put it in over an [TS]

  existing system where there was there [TS]

  were already honors classes or are they [TS]

  were then accelerated was like [TS]

  international baccalaureate no no but it [TS]

  was but that there was already an old [TS]

  school system in place where where [TS]

  advanced students took harder classes ok [TS]

  and then packed [TS]

  was was a thrown into the mix and was [TS]

  regarded as higher than the honors [TS]

  classes so there was a three-tier system [TS]

  in my junior high and again like the [TS]

  honors classes were hard harder classes [TS]

  that were like you're on a college track [TS]

  young person and then the pact classes [TS]

  were both like if you were really a hot [TS]

  shot and also if you were like a nose [TS]

  picker with a bowl haircut that tested [TS]

  well right I mean and this is the [TS]

  problem with the advanced placement [TS]

  classes it's like it the the hotshot [TS]

  kids want to be in the hottest one [TS]

  ok so the accelerated classes that's for [TS]

  kids who want to know what's on the test [TS]

  and get a and the the nerdier was more [TS]

  creative stuff [TS]

  yes right that this was there the late [TS]

  seventies idea that creativity that all [TS]

  we needed to do is activate the [TS]

  creativity in our children and they were [TS]

  going to all be rocket scientists and [TS]

  they were all going to be you know they [TS]

  were going to be little baby Einsteins [TS]

  because what they really needed to do [TS]

  was draw like they what they really need [TS]

  to do an 8th grade withdraw and you know [TS]

  and build like Eiffel Towers out of out [TS]

  of popsicle sticks and so forth [TS]

  anyway so when when I entered junior [TS]

  high I was putting was putting all the [TS]

  pact classes but by the first quarter it [TS]

  was evidence that I was not ready to be [TS]

  in school [TS]

  really I was not I was not ready to be [TS]

  with other people and that must have [TS]

  been an arduous decision for somebody [TS]

  you know we got tracks and we got packs [TS]

  but John just shouldn't be in the [TS]

  building [TS]

  you just shouldn't be here and then what [TS]

  what became apparent was that in grade [TS]

  school I had been able to negotiate an [TS]

  arrangement with my fifth and sixth [TS]

  grade teachers both [TS]

  I negotiated arrangement with that sure [TS]

  where it was like listen I don't wanna [TS]

  I'm not going to be able to do the [TS]

  assignments you have laid out but what [TS]

  if you know you know I could disrupt [TS]

  this everyday from the seat [TS]

  whenever you have to stand up that's [TS]

  right this is how this is gonna go get a [TS]

  real nice class here [TS]

  shame something happened to either i [TS]

  repeat everything you say in a singsong [TS]

  voice while I stick pins in my in the [TS]

  the the in my first wart or or you let [TS]

  me read books independently and i will [TS]

  write book reports for you so you can [TS]

  teach your class and everything will be [TS]

  fine it's still manageable that they [TS]

  still get to be teachers and they get a [TS]

  dignified way out [TS]

  that's right and they get to assign [TS]

  books 22 they got to sign books to me [TS]

  that made them feel like they were [TS]

  really part of the process in any case [TS]

  in junior high [TS]

  nobody was interested in making this [TS]

  arrangement with me because I had six [TS]

  teachers instead of one and so by the [TS]

  end of the first quarter [TS]

  I had failed all my pack classes I'm [TS]

  just you know and and we've never been [TS]

  given really letter grades before it [TS]

  always been sort of checks and plusses [TS]

  environment all of a sudden you know [TS]

  great cards just like really bad shape [TS]

  and the administrators said oh well he [TS]

  obviously doesn't belong impact it's too [TS]

  advanced for him we need to put it back [TS]

  down in the regular classes I don't know [TS]

  how we made this mistake the testing [TS]

  usually is pretty accurate [TS]

  we're going to put it down in the [TS]

  regular classes so he can catch back up [TS]

  with the students and I showed up for [TS]

  set the first day of second quarter and [TS]

  went in and sat in these regular classes [TS]

  with these normal kids and I was so [TS]

  mortified and the teacher was doing it [TS]

  was at the first class first day the [TS]

  teacher was doing some by presentation [TS]

  of like the the Constitution and I stood [TS]

  up and recite it from memory the [TS]

  preamble to the Constitution now of [TS]

  course i was singing the song from the [TS]

  television program we the people in [TS]

  order to win but I was smart enough to [TS]

  sing it to myself in my head and then [TS]

  translated into very formal sounding [TS]

  talk [TS]

  We the People in order to form a more [TS]

  perfect union and the teacher was like [TS]

  so and what what amazed me as I was [TS]

  doing it was that no one in the class [TS]

  recognized what i was doing like this is [TS]

  the third this is the the the only sign [TS]

  I needed that that the normal class was [TS]

  full of ding-a-lings was that no one [TS]

  even understood that I was just singing [TS]

  the song that we all knew what I was [TS]

  just saying it can't play three people [TS]

  didn't just join it [TS]

  nobody everybody just just SAT and [TS]

  stared at me in all and the teacher to [TS]

  and you know about halfway through I'm [TS]

  like I'm I'm orating like Abraham [TS]

  Lincoln in that you know like talking [TS]

  about the Holy smooth tariff this [TS]

  episode of Roderick on the line is once [TS]

  again sponsored by our very good friends [TS]

  at Squarespace Squarespace you guys know [TS]

  it is the all-in-one platform that makes [TS]

  it fast and easy to create your own [TS]

  website portfolio or online store [TS]

  john and i have been using square space [TS]

  for the entire time Roderick on the line [TS]

  has been running they've been great to [TS]

  us wonderful to work with [TS]

  it's simple enough for a podcaster to [TS]

  understand truly they make the whole [TS]

  process so simple they offer an easy [TS]

  drag-and-drop interface that beautiful [TS]

  free templates you can tweak and all the [TS]

  designs responsive so they look great on [TS]

  every device if you ever do get stuck [TS]

  don't worry your friends at square space [TS]

  for their with 24 x seven support they [TS]

  have dedicated teams in New York City [TS]

  and Dublin which is in Ireland [TS]

  Squarespace plans start at a mere eight [TS]

  dollars a month and they include a free [TS]

  domain name if you sign up for a year [TS]

  also every plan comes with the ability [TS]

  to create your own online store so if [TS]

  you have anything you want to sell you [TS]

  can sell it right from your very own [TS]

  site so whether you're a podcaster or [TS]

  musician writer and photographer [TS]

  anything please check out Squarespace [TS]

  it's a great way to get your stuff on [TS]

  the web and do tell them you heard about [TS]

  it from Roderick on the line in fact you [TS]

  get a free trial plus ten percent off [TS]

  any package you choose by using the very [TS]

  special offer code supertrain when you [TS]

  check out our thanks to squarespace for [TS]

  supporting Roderick on the line we could [TS]

  not do it without them the kid the [TS]

  kansas-nebraska act when the boys used [TS]

  to hate your date against your best [TS]

  investigate and find life and the [TS]

  teacher but a stentorian telling that [TS]

  says that you have you've rehearsed this [TS]

  Oh not only that but that I know the if [TS]

  you want to be too sure i could do the [TS]

  whole Constitution stop me when you get [TS]

  bored cuz that's right and uh the [TS]

  teacher you know like hightailed it down [TS]

  to the office and said listen I don't [TS]

  know what this I don't know what kind of [TS]

  kid this is but I we don't need him in [TS]

  my class this is gonna be a problem [TS]

  I don't know the preamble to the [TS]

  Constitution I don't want this kid that [TS]

  does in my class making me look bad and [TS]

  so there was this period there with it [TS]

  and the there was this period [TS]

  intermediate period where I was where [TS]

  they didn't know what class to put me [TS]

  because they couldn't put me in the [TS]

  honors class that was clearly for [TS]

  students serious students who are doing [TS]

  the work they had taken me out of the [TS]

  pack class and they didn't want to put [TS]

  me back in there i had gotten all f's [TS]

  all the children of immigrants with good [TS]

  cursive [TS]

  that's right they are the honors class [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  and then but then in the regular class [TS]

  it was clear i was just gonna throw [TS]

  grenades all day and they're so there [TS]

  was a way there was a the world while [TS]

  there I was just like going to whatever [TS]

  could i would go to different class [TS]

  everyday and finally they were like [TS]

  alright he's serious [TS]

  then they were like okay you go back to [TS]

  the pack class but listen if you're in a [TS]

  company they put you in special projects [TS]

  what they should have done is take me [TS]

  again [TS]

  hand me over to the National probably [TS]

  want to rehash this but I'm gonna say it [TS]

  you know every day someone is born he's [TS]

  never heard about cutting trail it's so [TS]

  the entire house is a crucible let's say [TS]

  crucible crystal clear go yankees [TS]

  corrected me I think I'm crucible that's [TS]

  not wrong so I know crucible ism yeah [TS]

  that's like a normal regular and his [TS]

  emailer are different right [TS]

  anyway the it's excruciating whether you [TS]

  starting six you go six seven eight or [TS]

  you 7th 8th 9th whatever I was seven [TS]

  eight nine and in in florida that the [TS]

  entire experience is excruciating that [TS]

  for everybody involved there's I is not [TS]

  a good outcome for any because there [TS]

  can't be because it is a priori a [TS]

  horrible existential struggle for every [TS]

  person who is that age and every single [TS]

  person who has to have any interaction [TS]

  with that horrible little person its [TS]

  there's no wait i mean you can make [TS]

  tracks all day long you can make special [TS]

  projects all day long but I mean that [TS]

  the whole thing it's amazing it just [TS]

  seems like to be a junior higher middle [TS]

  school especially junior high teacher [TS]

  you you really need your almost like a [TS]

  prison guard but you're really just like [TS]

  I just don't want to get shipped today [TS]

  like the entire experience has got to be [TS]

  so dispiriting with moments of joy but [TS]

  like you're you know you're such a role [TS]

  such little crazy monkeys in that period [TS]

  you know just are your hormones are just [TS]

  tearing you apart in ways that you can't [TS]

  begin to understand you have to interact [TS]

  with people whose hormones are tearing [TS]

  them apart [TS]

  it's a it's a message he'll kids aren't [TS]

  even sexy at that age [TS]

  mm well yeah yeah I'll go with that [TS]

  hi I I figured out Marlon I figured out [TS]

  the vehicle then i'm going to use as a [TS]

  mobile junior high school that my own [TS]

  daughter is it a custom white van when I [TS]

  take her out [TS]

  no no [TS]

  hey uncle Jack's poor junior haha i'm [TS]

  just going to park across the street [TS]

  from the realtor i will take kids really [TS]

  want to learn something trouble reading [TS]

  the plates they got some mud on know you [TS]

  know might my plan to my plan 22 [TS]

  throughout the junior high years [TS]

  well originally was to drive a jeep to [TS]

  chair del Fuego yeah but an inexpensive [TS]

  cheap that would necessarily require [TS]

  repairs along the way that's right [TS]

  that's right but but I i cannot i cannot [TS]

  navigate the the Colombian gap there [TS]

  whatever the hell that thing is called [TS]

  you know the you know the one I'm [TS]

  talking about i don't because there's [TS]

  not a schoolhouse rock on it [TS]

  um the you know right there right there [TS]

  in Panama there's this there's this [TS]

  swamp and the suave sort of between the [TS]

  border of Panama and Colombia it's [TS]

  called like the it's the Darien Gap [TS]

  that's right so as they say in business [TS]

  you're pivoting you are you taking the [TS]

  essence of the of this the building's [TS]

  Ramon that you're going to go on with [TS]

  your daughter you're pivoting and what's [TS]

  the new direction [TS]

  well the new direction I mean obviously [TS]

  the first my first choice would be to [TS]

  spearhead a project to build a road to [TS]

  the dariĆ©n gap ja right now what would [TS]

  you do what would teach her a little [TS]

  person more than to watch her father [TS]

  build a road through an impassable [TS]

  jungle but that seems unlikely given [TS]

  given the will of the people i don't [TS]

  think that i don't think there is the [TS]

  will you get that you get the right [TS]

  contract the people in North and South [TS]

  America need to have a need to have the [TS]

  will to join together and build a road [TS]

  through this impassable jungle but until [TS]

  that happens I think the new project is [TS]

  to buy a GMC a GMC RV and you got it you [TS]

  got a google this because it's in [TS]

  because it's a fantastic that there was [TS]

  a period when General Motors in the in [TS]

  the early seventies from like 72 7800 [TS]

  yes general motors built a recreational [TS]

  vehicle where they used all of the to [TS]

  all of their top technology it and they [TS]

  said this is going to be our flagship [TS]

  device on his hands on the second is [TS]

  google bus meet supertrain right it's [TS]

  like it's like it's like a super [TS]

  training Superman Superman and I've been [TS]

  inside a few of these things now and [TS]

  they are extremely extremely like [TS]

  comfortable kind of that the the ride [TS]

  height is pretty low to the ground there [TS]

  on these pneumatic shocks the berry that [TS]

  lots of light inside and they like [TS]

  General Motors for whatever reason [TS]

  thought like in 1972 the recreational [TS]

  vehicle is the way of the future from [TS]

  and we are gonna we are going to make [TS]

  the best recreational vehicle that's [TS]

  ever been made and they made they made [TS]

  him only for six years and they were too [TS]

  expensive [TS]

  nobody could afford it's right in the [TS]

  middle of the gas crisis all the cars [TS]

  are getting tiny exactly and so it ended [TS]

  up it was it's not like these in like [TS]

  5-10 miles to the gallon maybe no I [TS]

  think they're actually i think you know [TS]

  I think well I mean it's got a big motor [TS]

  but i think they do pretty well you know [TS]

  considering that during the Reagan years [TS]

  we made it a national policy to see how [TS]

  how little of gas saving technology we [TS]

  can use in cars cable game there was a [TS]

  little game like hey this the the new [TS]

  explorer only gets 11 miles to the [TS]

  gallon didn't remember when we started [TS]

  making fuel efficient vehicles again a [TS]

  few years ago and they were like this [TS]

  car gets 30 miles to the gallon isn't [TS]

  that amazing and it was like the car's [TS]

  got 30 miles to the gallon to move 30 [TS]

  years ago [TS]

  well they want to say for they using [TS]

  that part of it is that I mean if you [TS]

  could drive around in a Pinto or [TS]

  something but you got t-boned by by up [TS]

  you know ltd you're gone [TS]

  right i just want to get our listeners I [TS]

  I know most of you have computers and [TS]

  will google i really want to encourage [TS]

  you to look at these because when you [TS]

  said GM cr-v of course my first thinking [TS]

  of an Airstream i'm thinking of a [TS]

  Winnebago but no I mean it really is [TS]

  like a of a van on steroids tons of [TS]

  Windows that you get that interior I [TS]

  just sent you just look at this look at [TS]

  that it's got wood paneling inside it's [TS]

  got a sink it really is like an RV but [TS]

  it really is like a big van now it [TS]

  doesn't have the the balloon feeling of [TS]

  a Winnebago it really feels like [TS]

  something you could you get into a [TS]

  parking lot maybe right and the thing is [TS]

  it's hyper what I love about it is that [TS]

  they're designed in this hyper efficient [TS]

  way so that for instance the it's got [TS]

  like one of those European toilets [TS]

  showers where you just go into the [TS]

  bathroom and whatever you do that if you [TS]

  want the whole bathroom is a shower and [TS]

  a one of the other things as you can so [TS]

  the via the bench there in the front who [TS]

  the back of the bench flips up and [TS]

  becomes a bunk bed and then the the [TS]

  little table the little diner style [TS]

  table becomes a queen-size bed better [TS]

  screen size bed in the back and then the [TS]

  the closet door and the bathroom door [TS]

  both open into the hall in such a way [TS]

  that it becomes like a jack-and-jill [TS]

  door where the the bedroom in the back [TS]

  can go into the bathroom and there's [TS]

  always a door closed between it and the [TS]

  front of the claret clever design and [TS]

  then people in the front can go to the [TS]

  bathroom and somebody in the back [TS]

  bedroom can always have a door closed [TS]

  like you know it's just very it's very [TS]

  nicely done so i'm going to get one of [TS]

  these and this is going to be like this [TS]

  is going to be a proof-of-concept [TS]

  supertrain proof-of-concept who can [TS]

  drive around America we're going to [TS]

  maybe solve some crimes [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  we're going to investigate you know what [TS]

  maybe we'll probit the Darien Gap [TS]

  although my research indicates that you [TS]

  can't get very far [TS]

  even in a Land Rover let alone in a GMC [TS]

  RV but I feel like again so you know you [TS]

  may recognize this because i believe [TS]

  that this was the this was the basis of [TS]

  the the combat vehicle and stripes that [TS]

  they took over in 20 mike-mike right [TS]

  right isn't that the I yeah I could [TS]

  totally see that it's the stripes RV [TS]

  platform [TS]

  I want this so much i know i know and so [TS]

  but the thing is I'm looking inside [TS]

  again i'm just looking at these interior [TS]

  shots it looks like you could very [TS]

  easily if you want to do some some [TS]

  classic book learning you have ample [TS]

  space you have you can have a salon type [TS]

  environment um have an open discussion [TS]

  this area's we could sit into your work [TS]

  at a table the the driver and passenger [TS]

  seats swivel around captain seats bigger [TS]

  agency they become like you know you can [TS]

  kind of lord it over the people who are [TS]

  there in your living room and that's the [TS]

  thing i mean once you what [TS]

  once you're the captain of a vehicle [TS]

  like this you know it's it becomes a [TS]

  situation where nobody gets nobody sits [TS]

  in the captain's chair but the captain [TS]

  Oh what you're just going to ask your [TS]

  classroom and the teacher see I don't [TS]

  think so now you know so this is the [TS]

  culmination of a dream for you John you [TS]

  could potentially to and play music in [TS]

  this but we also get to teach while [TS]

  you're driving and being outside the [TS]

  system that's right i feel like i feel [TS]

  it's win-win [TS]

  it's a pretty wonderful vehicle and and [TS]

  you know if the if like storage [TS]

  opportunities were maximizing I could [TS]

  totally take a bunch of guitars in there [TS]

  too but it's got that it's also let's [TS]

  get big air conditioners got all the big [TS]

  storage on top [TS]

  mm it's sort of like a bill bixby as the [TS]

  Hulk man but the thing I don't have the [TS]

  on the run and we can maybe a little bit [TS]

  of of shazam right it's really appeals [TS]

  to a middle-aged man in a certain way it [TS]

  really does [TS]

  yeah you just get this thing and go [TS]

  self-contained em just driving around [TS]

  just stay in walmart parking lots we [TS]

  don't think about this is you could park [TS]

  it that's the thing you could Park this [TS]

  vehicle in the ins on city streets [TS]

  yeah it'sit's I don't want to say that [TS]

  it's it is kind of the form factor of a [TS]

  stretched-out van but it is kind is [TS]

  definitely an RV so what I mean like [TS]

  Walmart like what the walmart have a [TS]

  whole thing where you can park in the [TS]

  parking lot for free [TS]

  is that still a thing that's still a [TS]

  thing yeah there's a lot of Walmart's [TS]

  John i know they figured that out but [TS]

  behind the problem with that of course [TS]

  is that that's not everywhere you want [TS]

  to be you never want to be in a woman to [TS]

  start and I'm also thinking you could [TS]

  fortify this if you get some i don't i [TS]

  don't know if I about militarizing [TS]

  vehicles but it seems to me that with [TS]

  the right kind of cop shocks cop breaks [TS]

  cop suspension you could really make [TS]

  this thing work if you i think what i [TS]

  would do is i watch stripes multiple [TS]

  times and figure out exactly how like [TS]

  how about how they come battle fide that [TS]

  ok so maybe maybe the first trip is you [TS]

  you bring along a tivo & you show your [TS]

  daughter stripes your blues brothers you [TS]

  sure the short-lived a terrible NBC TV [TS]

  movie supertrain you should hurt what [TS]

  can happen when you just get out on the [TS]

  road maybe some of the road movies with [TS]

  my open my legs I i I'm just gonna I'm [TS]

  gonna give her some crayons i'm going to [TS]

  give her some popsicle sticks and I'm [TS]

  gonna say listen let your creativity [TS]

  Rome em we don't have to beat the [TS]

  Russians to the moon anymore but we do [TS]

  have to beat unnamed Russians we have to [TS]

  beat we have to be a metaphorical [TS]

  Russians in our in our you know in our [TS]

  quest to be like the next gen is so we [TS]

  don't lose the motorhome gap it was [TS]

  that's right we don't we don't we don't [TS]

  we don't be on the wrong side of the [TS]

  motorhome gap I i do I feel like this is [TS]

  I feel like this is it's in my future [TS]

  somewhere i talked to some guy on the [TS]

  phone the other day and I was like to [TS]

  know who was selling one of these and [TS]

  his actually was was like a giant gold [TS]

  easter egg like this one leaves at me [TS]

  but they're only 26 feet long so you [TS]

  know the big Garvey's or 40 feet long [TS]

  the 26 footer is like it kind of is [TS]

  it's small enough that it it doesn't [TS]

  register a lot of the media this is one [TS]

  of those vehicles that like you look for [TS]

  the European cargo vans very kind of a [TS]

  look at it twice [TS]

  yeah that's bigger than it seems maybe [TS]

  that these are driving on the roads all [TS]

  around us and we just don't see them you [TS]

  know they have that stone technology [TS]

  like it's just small and weird enough [TS]

  looking at you that you're I doesn't [TS]

  pick up on it but they might be [TS]

  everywhere [TS]

  yeah i'm starting to notice them you [TS]

  know I think there's a community of [TS]

  people to this is no this is where this [TS]

  community building kind of vehicles for [TS]

  sure [TS]

  yeah well in imagine if you could get [TS]

  the cutting trail road program going for [TS]

  seventh graders were compelled to go [TS]

  into service to cut trail imagine if you [TS]

  were the director of that and I'm saying [TS]

  you got time your daughter's not a few [TS]

  years to grow up a little bit [TS]

  wouldn't it be great if you got to a [TS]

  time where you could be the guy who goes [TS]

  and you're the inspector for that like [TS]

  if you're retired director of the trail [TS]

  cutting program and you just drive your [TS]

  GMC RV with your daughter your guitars [TS]

  from place to place you know America [TS]

  just checking in checking and make sure [TS]

  trail is being cut and sew so put so by [TS]

  day your tyrannical enforcer of middle [TS]

  school discipline and then biting your [TS]

  sensitive singer-songwriter I'm you know [TS]

  and I true i'm counting the money [TS]

  already imagine imagine the people that [TS]

  would come to the shows all of it all [TS]

  the fans of the all the fans of the of [TS]

  the program simply an American hear [TS]

  about that and you can go for parents [TS]

  night were like once let's say once [TS]

  every month or two [TS]

  your parents come visit you briefly not [TS]

  pass you anything [TS]

  well know what you write you you you [TS]

  meet you meet there in the big in the [TS]

  big hall there is no touching [TS]

  I I feel like I feel like something has [TS]

  to happen where where we are able to can [TS]

  we are able to galvanize the will of the [TS]

  people again I don't feel like we can do [TS]

  that so much anymore [TS]

  right the people feel burned the people [TS]

  have had their will galvanized multiple [TS]

  times fucked up projects over and [TS]

  nobody's into a big project anymore [TS]

  he is also that you know this side as [TS]

  we've certainly talked about at length I [TS]

  mean everybody knows so much who they [TS]

  aren't and when they're not into and [TS]

  what kind of stuff is screwed them were [TS]

  also hypersensitive to all these things [TS]

  that haven't worked out before I think I [TS]

  think America needs a hero some somebody [TS]

  that can get out there are some you know [TS]

  an organization where I mean you know go [TS]

  walk around America and notice how many [TS]

  things were built as like wpa projects [TS]

  right or the freaking interstate can you [TS]

  imagine can you imagine America having [TS]

  the will to build an interstate highway [TS]

  system now right was like okay here's [TS]

  the project we're going to do this big [TS]

  thing and we're going to come into the [TS]

  center of every major city and teardown [TS]

  of a six-block wide stripe right through [TS]

  the heart of town but we need to do this [TS]

  we need to do this because we need these [TS]

  roads so avatar hell of a story it's an [TS]

  incredible story that has not been told [TS]

  I was going to say that I mean like all [TS]

  the stuff you know I our friend John [TS]

  circuses always talking about the [TS]

  supposed a fantastic biography of robert [TS]

  moses the-the-the gonna be like you know [TS]

  it's almost tore down half of New York [TS]

  City it out that sounds fascinating but [TS]

  I mean that's the stuff behind the [TS]

  scenes that's that's so incredible [TS]

  think about how much eminent domain had [TS]

  to happen in order to get the highways [TS]

  built its insane it absolutely i mean [TS]

  when you just looking at overhead [TS]

  pictures of Seattle and listening to my [TS]

  mom talked about it where they you know [TS]

  they picked they picked the route of the [TS]

  interstate through the city where where [TS]

  it would be kind of the least disruptive [TS]

  like they cut it through the steepest [TS]

  hills I guess so [TS]

  so it is they didn't like have to tear [TS]

  down any office buildings and it wasn't [TS]

  really like it a lot of the land was [TS]

  already somewhat fallow but it also went [TS]

  through like basically the nicest [TS]

  neighborhood in the city while we're all [TS]

  of the [TS]

  big homes were sitting up on the bluff [TS]

  with panoramic views and they just wiped [TS]

  it out and my mom said at a at a certain [TS]

  point in like whatever that was nineteen [TS]

  sixty that there were barges floating [TS]

  out of the city all the time with big [TS]

  Victorian homes on them where somebody [TS]

  had bought up victorian home for a [TS]

  dollar for and put it on a truck taking [TS]

  it down to the lake put it on a barge [TS]

  floated it out through the locks and [TS]

  apparently I haven't been able to [TS]

  research this because I've been too busy [TS]

  looping my guitar over and over over a [TS]

  drum machine for the last seven years [TS]

  but apparently all through Puget Sound [TS]

  there are maybe if you're on a boat will [TS]

  be motoring along and then back in the [TS]

  trees they will suddenly be this like [TS]

  Victorian home on an acre of land and [TS]

  you're like how the hell did that get [TS]

  out here and it is it's one of these [TS]

  homes from Seattle's like Harvard [TS]

  neighborhood that was trucked away as [TS]

  they were cutting you know cutting [TS]

  through what would have been I guess to [TS]

  full blocks of homes across the center [TS]

  of the town and that's not I mean in [TS]

  seattle was was not a town that had a [TS]

  lot of at the time you know any [TS]

  political influence nationally or any [TS]

  real there wasn't any way that's Seattle [TS]

  could even raise a fuss about and I [TS]

  think everybody here was like sure [TS]

  America cares about us while we're in [TS]

  the story we get a we get a stiletto a [TS]

  small town if I can get an interstate [TS]

  through us [TS]

  Wow course will do whatever you say but [TS]

  like I mean cutting the interstates [TS]

  through the center of Detroit cutting [TS]

  the interstates through the center of [TS]

  chicago i mean these were for massive [TS]

  projects and everybody just went along [TS]

  you know you don't have you never seen a [TS]

  photograph of like the big protests [TS]

  the big interstate highway protests [TS]

  where everybody came out in droves and [TS]

  said hell no we won't go [TS]

  I mean you you find you get wind of the [TS]

  idea that there might be a crate and [TS]

  barrel built in five years and you're [TS]

  going to 500 people there [TS]

  yeah exactly i mean and think about [TS]

  think about the things we protest now [TS]

  the kind of did the kind of like little [TS]

  development me with the the music [TS]

  Commission just got instituted a program [TS]

  here where we put up signs in front of [TS]

  about five or six venues where it says [TS]

  musician parking and it was just it was [TS]

  just like a like an idea that the music [TS]

  Commission had like let's just put up [TS]

  musician parking signs so that musicians [TS]

  who are loading and unloading their gear [TS]

  out in front of the venue don't keep [TS]

  getting ticketed by the city which is [TS]

  you know been a problem the whole time [TS]

  I've been here a problem of it not being [TS]

  allowed or probably the police not [TS]

  knowing that it's okay for them to be [TS]

  there [TS]

  well it isn't okay that's the thing like [TS]

  all the all the venues have that they're [TS]

  there is no special parking so anywhere [TS]

  else you tour in America or in the world [TS]

  you drive up to the venue and they put a [TS]

  couple of cones out out in front of the [TS]

  venue and you park your van there and [TS]

  and then your van can stay there all [TS]

  night because other cities aren't crazy [TS]

  in florida you can live in it for two [TS]

  years affect the the only cities that [TS]

  you can't do that our new york where [TS]

  they're just like happiness for anybody [TS]

  like fuck you [TS]

  UPS trucks keep moving while giving do [TS]

  it for its and Seattle and I guess San [TS]

  Francisco also has a little bit of this [TS]

  problem but anyway we put up these these [TS]

  musician parking signs and there was a [TS]

  huge outcry just from black people in [TS]

  the neighborhood who were like wait a [TS]

  minute what where's my friend that [TS]

  wasn't I consulted yeah and it's like [TS]

  wow it was only like 50 years ago that [TS]

  now that we that we were bulldozing [TS]

  entire neighborhoods that we were [TS]

  ripping up the city to build the [TS]

  interstate on no further like no further [TS]

  authority than just like Eisenhower said [TS]

  for the Germans really have a good idea [TS]

  what these highway [TS]

  and then somebody connected it to the to [TS]

  the idea that we we needed them to [TS]

  escape in the event of a nuclear war say [TS]

  we got the internet is that right well [TS]

  as i understand it the DARPA program [TS]

  that led to what we think of as the [TS]

  internet today started out as a way to I [TS]

  you know what I'm going to say anything [TS]

  it's a computer math think its a math [TS]

  that's been it started as dark as a [TS]

  defense project that [TS]

  yeah what became the internet but the [TS]

  idea that the idea that that we would [TS]

  get an alert may have just enough [TS]

  warning to hop into Archie c rvs and get [TS]

  out of town and all those remember [TS]

  remember the sirens that used to set up [TS]

  on top of phone poles [TS]

  yeah you know they were all our Clarkson [TS]

  yeah and then you would you you know [TS]

  you'd grab the kids jump into the GMC RV [TS]

  and hit these expressways and what we're [TS]

  going to be able to empty out the city's [TS]

  for on the on the interstate highways [TS]

  and all the people would roam out into [TS]

  the hall that you know hit it all get [TS]

  out of the blast zone and and they'd [TS]

  they'd like camp out somewhere they [TS]

  developed a burning man type of think a [TS]

  moment like over the over the hills from [TS]

  the town we made it let's make an art [TS]

  car and said somehow that that was like [TS]

  that that fantasy was all it took to [TS]

  galvanize like the bulldozer people and [TS]

  the the home [TS]

  oh sure hey we can do that you know like [TS]

  sure that sounds that that's absolutely [TS]

  that's a lot of concrete and sounds good [TS]

  to me and we built this incredible thing [TS]

  and now think think about even the [TS]

  smallest national pro well think about [TS]

  fucking Obamacare what a dolt what a [TS]

  dumb no-brainer [TS]

  you know there's not even you don't have [TS]

  to tear down a single building to build [TS]

  Obamacare and it's just like it's it [TS]

  might as well be it might as well be [TS]

  that that Obama said I'm going to come [TS]

  into each home and take the oldest child [TS]

  i'll be over he hit that you know you [TS]

  know that and and and and Democrats that [TS]

  have donated a lot of money to my [TS]

  campaign get a little bit of lambs blood [TS]

  on the door model tough but think about [TS]

  what it would take and the thing is we [TS]

  need we need it we need to build a [TS]

  bridge to the Darien Gap we need to we [TS]

  need to build up you know we need to [TS]

  build like for instance a co2 a like [TS]

  sequestering system on all the coal [TS]

  plants right that's it that's a no [TS]

  brainer to write all the coal-burning [TS]

  plants they all need a CEO to sequester [TS]

  or I don't know much about that I i know [TS]

  that coal is not good for the [TS]

  environment it's tough to get off of so [TS]

  the interim solution is to mean less and [TS]

  less emissions that the idea [TS]

  well yeah cool we're not gonna get off [TS]

  colon the next five years [TS]

  we're not going to get off Cole and to [TS]

  build a 2 and everything is like there's [TS]

  no such thing as clean coal it's all it [TS]

  but there it but it is possible to build [TS]

  like us temp scrubber system that takes [TS]

  a lot of the the garbage that gets shot [TS]

  up into space and like captures it and [TS]

  we can compress that we can compress [TS]

  those noxious carbons and then re-inject [TS]

  them back into the earth who that's one [TS]

  thing we can do that sounds complicated [TS]

  it's pretty complicated but not as [TS]

  complicated as building an interstate [TS]

  highway system [TS]

  yeah but right now it's like each coal [TS]

  plant looks at looks at the balance [TS]

  books and says well that's what do we [TS]

  get out of that like that's a big [TS]

  investment and it doesnt it's this [TS]

  really makes you want to read up on this [TS]

  now because if you think about stuff [TS]

  like you know me i guess a classic [TS]

  example is to my head would be something [TS]

  like the gauge of railroads or you know [TS]

  how like how railroad tracks relate like [TS]

  if you want the trains to be able to go [TS]

  everywhere they all have to be on the [TS]

  same kind of track otherwise it's going [TS]

  to have some pretty serious problems [TS]

  and I'm guessing that came about [TS]

  probably because the people who owned [TS]

  the most railway you know miles were [TS]

  able to kind of push that through to be [TS]

  that whatever they wanted to for the [TS]

  trains that they they had botter however [TS]

  that works but it's incredible to think [TS]

  like you know and this could be farcical [TS]

  this is like a sin and live sketch [TS]

  honestly to think about what it would be [TS]

  like today to try and convince Arkansas [TS]

  Massachusetts utah and Oregon to agree [TS]

  on like what a highway should look like [TS]

  today [TS]

  well yeah I mean you saw this the other [TS]

  the other day never never tried on the [TS]

  highway and go I don't understand this [TS]

  highway they all work the same yeah you [TS]

  saw the other day when I went on Twitter [TS]

  and was like why the hell you know [TS]

  because I i bought a new macbook air i [TS]

  wrote a magazine article on it i saved [TS]

  it right [TS]

  sure you did what basis and the cloud i [TS]

  saved it and then and then the person [TS]

  who I wrote it for one of it [TS]

  mmm loud i put it in an email and I sent [TS]

  it to the first is the email in the [TS]

  cloud will be bracketed I can't open [TS]

  this calling your front it said when we [TS]

  can open it I i bought a brand-new [TS]

  macintosh computer and i wrote a thing I [TS]

  wrote a thing on it I've done this [TS]

  before another Macintosh's the city done [TS]

  it and I said it to you hear anything [TS]

  can open he's like it's in the notes in [TS]

  a format i don't recognize and so I had [TS]

  to go and then I realized well as a [TS]

  pages document [TS]

  yeah yeah and I went and I realized that [TS]

  it automatically saves itself in a [TS]

  format that no one else can read and you [TS]

  can ask it to save it to save the [TS]

  document as a word file or as a dock or [TS]

  whatever but but its native environment [TS]

  is to save itself in a dot gr X Y it's a [TS]

  lot like a teenage boy its default mode [TS]

  is to be unreadable buy anything else [TS]

  and difficult to work with [TS]

  yeah so and it's like this is a [TS]

  brand-new thing that I just bought this [TS]

  is this is the direction we're headed [TS]

  not the direction we are coming from and [TS]

  so I go on the internet and I'm like why [TS]

  the fuck would end [TS]

  anybody build a thing these days that [TS]

  does that isn't readable by everybody [TS]

  and I get 25 replies from people that [TS]

  are like well why of the what why does [TS]

  it every a gun fire the same cartridge [TS]

  restoring your firm and you know like [TS]

  all this all this kind of like huffy [TS]

  puffy back pushing from people that run [TS]

  the analogy police [TS]

  yeah whatever exactly four minutes from [TS]

  the people who who have grown up in a [TS]

  world where 75 different railroad gauges [TS]

  is what they think is a normal normal [TS]

  way of doing business and Microsoft and [TS]

  Google and Apple all have a different [TS]

  gauge of railroad and somebody sent me a [TS]

  link to a cartoon which was like every [TS]

  time somebody says let's get a standard [TS]

  that everybody can use all it does is [TS]

  add one more unreadable standard to the [TS]

  bottom of the frame and it's like that [TS]

  of course but that is that only seems [TS]

  like the world because it's the only [TS]

  world you know but as you're saying [TS]

  there were 25 different railroad gauges [TS]

  in 1815 every single person had the [TS]

  right term for a gauge yeah and in fact [TS]

  until very recently like the first time [TS]

  I went to the first time I wanted a big [TS]

  European train trip in 1986 when you [TS]

  cross the border from France to Spain [TS]

  Spain was on a different gauge and they [TS]

  use your they would drive the train into [TS]

  a into a little a special terminal and I [TS]

  don't know if I've told you this before [TS]

  then even believe me but I have one here [TS]

  they drove the train into a special sort [TS]

  of facility and they lifted the entire [TS]

  train off of its running gear they roll [TS]

  the wheels out and i but yes for an [TS]

  entire train and rolled the new wheels [TS]

  underneath the train will never change [TS]

  its shoes [TS]

  yes while you're still on it oh my god [TS]

  over the train down onto its new wheels [TS]

  so that so that the train could continue [TS]

  on and I did not know that that if [TS]

  that's safe [TS]

  I can't believe that's possible that is [TS]

  what it used to be now it's not that way [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  but because and and what it required was [TS]

  that Spain undergo this incredible [TS]

  process of like ripping up all the [TS]

  railroad tracks to conform to the system [TS]

  that's for some reason for 50 years [TS]

  beforehand throughout the fruit [TS]

  throughout Franco's rain or whatever [TS]

  they just had this i just decided they [TS]

  were a different gauge but I mean if [TS]

  you're absolutely right to make that [TS]

  analogy there it could have been a [TS]

  system in which every single little [TS]

  regional rail road is operating on its [TS]

  own any of course that is true of the [TS]

  narrow gauge railways of like mining [TS]

  communities and so forth that little [TS]

  that little train that goes from Durango [TS]

  Colorado up to gunnison or whatever is [TS]

  is a narrow gauge train but the idea of [TS]

  a standard it shouldn't be that it [TS]

  shouldn't be that crazy and what it what [TS]

  it requires is yeah the either that the [TS]

  idea that the people will it or that [TS]

  somebody be enough in charge that they [TS]

  can impose it but and this is why this [TS]

  is why i think the people this is it [TS]

  this is the one thing about the rise of [TS]

  China that really impresses me in that [TS]

  they have a dictatorial system and so [TS]

  the Chinese can impose like countrywide [TS]

  projects and reforms and I mean and they [TS]

  do their priorities are are all over the [TS]

  map so it's really you know some [TS]

  sometimes they're there countrywide [TS]

  reforms are we're going to cut everyones [TS]

  nipples off and the you know that and [TS]

  it's like that seems crazy and we were [TS]

  all like what the fuck are they doing [TS]

  but for instance this co2 sequestering [TS]

  of their coal plants because China is [TS]

  making more coal pollution than anywhere [TS]

  else in the world by by a hundred times [TS]

  but they are actually investing in this [TS]

  technology and they have the they have [TS]

  the nationwide will to just if they [TS]

  choose to just impose it and know and [TS]

  and to whatever degree effects profits [TS]

  or to whatever degree you know there's [TS]

  not [TS]

  they don't have to deal with a hundred [TS]

  different boards of [TS]

  directors they're not having like local [TS]

  meetings at the ymca with free coffee to [TS]

  talk about what we feel about this [TS]

  stoplight well and and it's it's not [TS]

  just that but they don't have to deal [TS]

  with with the Koch brothers or the or [TS]

  Donald Trump opining about it they just [TS]

  decide like oh this is this is actually [TS]

  the future and this is what we have to [TS]

  do and so boom we do it and it's the [TS]

  pits what is so messy about a democracy [TS]

  but but but i can't i'm increasingly [TS]

  finding less and less it in these big [TS]

  terms less unless to love about the mess [TS]

  of democracy when you're when you talk [TS]

  about it in terms of these global [TS]

  problems like this at this I guess is [TS]

  the problem with with global warming and [TS]

  why global warming has become a proxy [TS]

  for the for the capitalists to end the [TS]

  hippies to fight through is that [TS]

  ultimately the capitalists have decided [TS]

  that the mess of democracy works for [TS]

  them in certain ways and the and really [TS]

  to to make a like we built the [TS]

  interstate highway systems and it did [TS]

  not imperil democracy you know what I [TS]

  mean we [TS]

  that was something that was imposed from [TS]

  on high it was a nationwide program [TS]

  people made a lot of money off of it it [TS]

  didn't we didn't come out of the [TS]

  interstate highway building system as a [TS]

  as any more of an old darky then we were [TS]

  going in but but now the capitalists are [TS]

  afraid if we if we do a similar thing [TS]

  with it with 22 to try and make progress [TS]

  on the global warming problem right that [TS]

  that what that it's inevitably trending [TS]

  toward a kind of statist like over [TS]

  government [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  because we couldn't because capitalism [TS]

  could possibly survive one of these big [TS]

  projects in so instead of thinking of [TS]

  that kind of democracy as a way to put [TS]

  our smart heads together for some [TS]

  greater good [TS]

  it's it's about focusing on all these [TS]

  different voices right and this is I [TS]

  don't help him that changing the topic [TS]

  but it makes me think of places that [TS]

  I've worked and just teams that I've [TS]

  been around a nice i think especially [TS]

  this comes up on places that end up [TS]

  having what i would call coming maybe an [TS]

  overabundance of caution or are [TS]

  sometimes happens family-owned [TS]

  businesses very conservative [TS]

  conservative you know in terms of [TS]

  decision-making that politics but [TS]

  there's this thing that happens a lot of [TS]

  the time where it helps it happens a lot [TS]

  in computer mass culture where there [TS]

  will be a certain kind of thing where [TS]

  like you know regardless of the merits [TS]

  of something but let's assume that it's [TS]

  something that is theoretically a really [TS]

  good idea [TS]

  there's this thing that can happen [TS]

  sometimes and I definitely felt this [TS]

  like you know in college at like town [TS]

  meetings as we used to call it kind of [TS]

  always felt like well here's this [TS]

  there's this idea and there's a lot of [TS]

  energy and enthusiasm be truck between [TS]

  amongst all these people into for trying [TS]

  to make this good thing are causing this [TS]

  could change to happen for example you [TS]

  know there's a noise ordinance and we [TS]

  want to keep having parties and we're [TS]

  young enough to really want a loud party [TS]

  but also old enough and mature enough to [TS]

  understand that we have to get along [TS]

  with the community and so we have to [TS]

  govern ourselves in order to be able to [TS]

  keep having parties so can we have a [TS]

  pretty loud party less often or should [TS]

  we do we really want to get to where [TS]

  somebody from the community shows up [TS]

  with a noise meter every Friday night [TS]

  ideally we would make it so that those [TS]

  we have a good relationship with those [TS]

  people and and so forth but the thing is [TS]

  it takes a certain amount of maturity [TS]

  and getting your head on your own ass in [TS]

  order to make something even like a loud [TS]

  party happen a very immature for the [TS]

  thing but it seems like in some [TS]

  organizations and some groups left to [TS]

  their own devices instead it becomes an [TS]

  exercise in in like listening for the [TS]

  one voice who gets to kill the entire [TS]

  idea by Fiat because they dye bomb in [TS]

  with some kind of think of the children [TS]

  thing [TS]

  or some kind of what about my property [TS]

  values or whatever it is but it just it [TS]

  seems like sometimes you know especially [TS]

  in this increasingly melodramatic kind [TS]

  of culture we've got it's not that [TS]

  difficult for those really loud voices [TS]

  to be the ones that like start to define [TS]

  the entire debate and maybe it's always [TS]

  been that way maybe just that [TS]

  everybody's got a megaphone a cannon now [TS]

  but it seems like you know even like [TS]

  really really simple things and finally [TS]

  on this i guess one thing I learned the [TS]

  project manager is to the to the best of [TS]

  my ability possible i would i would try [TS]

  to never ask people for permission to do [TS]

  anything [TS]

  instead I would offer an implementation [TS]

  solution for something that was [TS]

  obviously a good idea which is another [TS]

  way of saying we need to do something [TS]

  about working with communion this noise [TS]

  ordinance I'd be happy to set up a [TS]

  meeting go to and then bringing my men [TS]

  my notes when i'm done like here's a [TS]

  great idea and I'll do the work that [TS]

  kind of thing helps a lot but instead it [TS]

  becomes kind of namby-pamby let's- try [TS]

  and put out this idea and we're already [TS]

  kind of scared to even talk about this [TS]

  big idea and then once we do we let the [TS]

  conversation become completely overrun [TS]

  by some of the the wildest or loudest [TS]

  opinions and then that puts off all the [TS]

  same people who would ordinarily get [TS]

  involved in that discussion which I cut [TS]

  myself amongst a lot of the time right [TS]

  doesn't feel like a thing I mean you [TS]

  know obviously not everybody got a [TS]

  square deal probably on the interstate [TS]

  highway system but thank god we've got [TS]

  it now [TS]

  how many industries today like we would [TS]

  never have existed if we didn't have a [TS]

  highway system but you know if you let [TS]

  one person who is again it be the one [TS]

  who decided to knock down the entire [TS]

  program you know with somebody do right [TS]

  I think about this all the time that [TS]

  that obviously there were always people [TS]

  that stood up a town meetings and yelled [TS]

  there were always people that had tin [TS]

  foil inside their hats there were always [TS]

  people that that felt like everybody was [TS]

  out to get them but something really [TS]

  dramatically has changed so that we [TS]

  don't anymore [TS]

  gavel those people down you know what I [TS]

  mean like like in nineteen fifty people [TS]

  stood up at town meetings and said ah [TS]

  the room com trails of fluoride in the [TS]

  water right and then at a certain point [TS]

  the chairman of the committee rang his [TS]

  gavel on the table [TS]

  and they said let's you know let's take [TS]

  this to the like I I think we've heard [TS]

  all we need to hear and you know and [TS]

  sometimes those guys got carried out of [TS]

  the room or whatever but now every [TS]

  single person that gets up in a town [TS]

  meeting has got some has got dealy [TS]

  boppers on his hat and up left and right [TS]

  and there is no there's no more you know [TS]

  in the threat the threat that has [TS]

  pitched at every at every elected [TS]

  official is that if you if you adopt [TS]

  that kind of Imperial like we're just [TS]

  we're just going to go ahead and move on [TS]

  this that in the next election [TS]

  boy you're going to hear about it you're [TS]

  going to hear that you are you know [TS]

  we're going to speak truth to power [TS]

  yeah that's right and and it's the whole [TS]

  minutes [TS]

  its the hole I I know you hate talking [TS]

  about the Tea Party but but you know the [TS]

  tea party that the the analog to the tea [TS]

  party on the left is really the whole [TS]

  intellectual left is willing to has been [TS]

  willing to burn down the what the the [TS]

  part of the system that was working in [TS]

  order to make the point about the part [TS]

  of the system that wasn't work and when [TS]

  you think about the idea that we had not [TS]

  very long ago I mean there we were [TS]

  opposed to the WTO because it seemed [TS]

  like it was just a it was just a [TS]

  clinton-era money-grab but I think [TS]

  everybody of our generation has imagined [TS]

  in one way or another a global economy [TS]

  and a global system of government at [TS]

  least I mean because it was Woodrow [TS]

  Wilson's idea it was the it was the it [TS]

  was the marshall plan it was the UH the [TS]

  idea of the United Nations all these [TS]

  were like we're moving in this direction [TS]

  clearly we need an international [TS]

  tribunal that can settle these disputes [TS]

  we don't want to keep having awards we [TS]

  have to be growing out of war and and so [TS]

  we're going to develop these these large [TS]

  systems and they were always the [TS]

  Rockefellers and the pointy hats that [TS]

  were like we're not going to turn over [TS]

  American sovereignty to some United [TS]

  Nations Organization that's [TS]

  full of reds and frenches but in fact [TS]

  like what is the alternative 200 years [TS]

  from now five hundred years from now [TS]

  seriously they're still going to be [TS]

  there still going to be 200 little [TS]

  countries all with different railroad [TS]

  gauges all bickering about who gets to [TS]

  kill minke whales and who gets to dump [TS]

  their transmission fluid into the ocean [TS]

  like no it isn't it is not the future [TS]

  clearly and yet and yet in America we [TS]

  can't even agree i mean-- in washington [TS]

  state the the left coast of washington [TS]

  and the right coast of Washington can't [TS]

  even come together over what what you [TS]

  know where to put our tax dollars the [TS]

  people over and over in the on the [TS]

  Palouse want to spend our tax money [TS]

  punishing girls who have had sex with [TS]

  their boyfriends the people on the Left [TS]

  Coast want to legalize pot and and have [TS]

  granola running through the the pipes [TS]

  into our homes and so imagine like [TS]

  trying to get people to agree like oh [TS]

  you know what [TS]

  like we need to cooperate with England [TS]

  France Germany Belgium and Spain on a [TS]

  like on a larger project of a of cutting [TS]

  co2 emissions not by ten percent but by [TS]

  ninety percent like we need to cooperate [TS]

  with China and you know what China wants [TS]

  us to make some concessions to and it's [TS]

  not just a case where we are lecturing [TS]

  china but they want us to make some [TS]

  concessions to who [TS]

  how would you how would you get the [TS]

  American people to support a thing like [TS]

  that you know you China's done a lot of [TS]

  bad stuff John china is bad probably [TS]

  shouldn't work with them and you know if [TS]

  we let China dictate to us one thing [TS]

  then that means pretty soon we all are [TS]

  eating chicken feet [TS]

  yeah and uh and they're not letting us [TS]

  have as many babies as we wanted for [TS]

  that's how it starts [TS]

  that is how it starts so I mean I don't [TS]

  you know for myself when I said that [TS]

  while I bed and dream it's like well [TS]

  clearly we need to work as a we need to [TS]

  figure out a way to work as a planet [TS]

  oh my god i hate myself i made myself [TS]

  hurt i hate that I even said that [TS]

  happens to me about twice a month and i [TS]

  just want to kill myself something like [TS]

  that [TS]

  speaking in bumper stickers to you now [TS]

  speaking in bumper stickers to you now [TS]

  never did your visualize whirled peace [TS]

  haha i'm visualizing whirled peas right [TS]

  now [TS]

  yeah yeah it was so I was going to ask [TS]

  you when you think roughly plus or minus [TS]

  like where there was weather events when [TS]

  you think this kind of change in [TS]

  discourse really took place but you know [TS]

  I guess yeah and you think about that [TS]

  for a minute but I'm just like I'm also [TS]

  just thinking this is this is really [TS]

  just me up in the peanut gallery looking [TS]

  down but maybe it's just by virtue of [TS]

  the fact that i do see stuff like social [TS]

  media and and I just see how pervasive [TS]

  that's become as the way that we express [TS]

  everything and you know on the one end [TS]

  of the spectrum you've got this feeling [TS]

  amongst people it seems to be like if I [TS]

  don't take a photo of this and put it up [TS]

  it didn't actually happen there's that [TS]

  that's starting to seem kind of like a [TS]

  real thing like amongst a lot of people [TS]

  and then you know at the other end [TS]

  you've got I guess what I'm trying to [TS]

  get at is it I'm really it is really [TS]

  starting to feel like it's becoming [TS]

  difficult for people to this is awful [TS]

  but it it really honestly old guy [TS]

  talking here it really starting to feel [TS]

  like it's becoming least difficult for [TS]

  me to see an important difference and I [TS]

  guess I'll just go on a limb and say I [TS]

  think its tip is getting difficult for [TS]

  people to separate their idea of [TS]

  themselves from their opinions from the [TS]

  body politic from america's next top [TS]

  model or whatever it is it really seems [TS]

  like everybody is supposed to have an [TS]

  extremely strong and deeply held [TS]

  conviction about big issues as well as [TS]

  things that just happened and if you [TS]

  have no opinion or if you have a light [TS]

  opinion or if you're open to getting [TS]

  more information [TS]

  you're kind of not a fully branded [TS]

  character yet and in order to in order [TS]

  to fulfill your personal brand online [TS]

  and therefore consequently in your life [TS]

  you have to come down super hard on one [TS]

  side and then stick to it and maybe it's [TS]

  always been that way it's just that now [TS]

  there's so much on the wine you know [TS]

  when you're when you're sitting there i [TS]

  was wanting to sit there and yell at the [TS]

  TV what President Nixon was talking and [TS]

  it's another thing now to be to be part [TS]

  of these these coalition's of people [TS]

  these little flash mobs [TS]

  the flash / lynch mobs of people who are [TS]

  constantly looking for what what latest [TS]

  indignity or-or-or problem they can [TS]

  decide to rally around and just this [TS]

  really is not that much [TS]

  there's not that much incentive anymore [TS]

  for somebody to just be kind of a reason [TS]

  person who shows up and listens and says [TS]

  things sometimes but it just I think [TS]

  that's making it harder i know that's [TS]

  obvious but i really i think that's a [TS]

  bigger problem than most of us are [TS]

  willing to admit because then each side [TS]

  benefits from stoking those people and [TS]

  from getting more and more and more dug [TS]

  in on that one side and it's not just [TS]

  doesn't filters that much incentive out [TS]

  there to go out and try and become a [TS]

  reason person who can figure out what [TS]

  you're willing to give away in order to [TS]

  make something good happen right [TS]

  I I don't want to be too [TS]

  Roderick on the line about it but this [TS]

  is on the camp but well no I and and [TS]

  this will at this will sort of i think [TS]

  ignite you in a different way but for me [TS]

  there was this there's this splintering [TS]

  that started with Hagel and at nita [TS]

  really there was there was a a [TS]

  splintering of what of what we thought [TS]

  of what we understood to be the Western [TS]

  tradition and at the at Foucault the the [TS]

  idea that we were the the idea that the [TS]

  relationship between the that knowledge [TS]

  and power were these things that that we [TS]

  could get outside of and look down on [TS]

  and see the relationships between and we [TS]

  could decode and we could we could like [TS]

  apprehend the systems of control [TS]

  in a way that we could intervene [TS]

  intellectually and-and-and up and [TS]

  introduced into the into the into the [TS]

  story into the story of human progress [TS]

  that we were that we were being [TS]

  controlled by these these larger systems [TS]

  literary systems language systems you [TS]

  know and that those systems were [TS]

  tinkering ball and we could get in and [TS]

  every every group could recognize the [TS]

  point at which the actual language the [TS]

  actual English language was built in [TS]

  such a way that it disempowered them and [TS]

  the actual way that we thought that our [TS]

  systems that the act that systems that [TS]

  we had always considered benign or [TS]

  neutral that those systems were actually [TS]

  built as control apparatus and so we [TS]

  needed to we need to disassemble these [TS]

  systems in order to achieve equality it [TS]

  wasn't just a question any more of what [TS]

  had always been the American project [TS]

  which was equality under the law write [TS]

  it as long as everyone is equal under [TS]

  the law that's as good as government can [TS]

  do and then we have to we have to work [TS]

  out everything else but but but at a [TS]

  certain point [TS]

  no that wasn't true anymore because the [TS]

  law was intrinsically unequal because [TS]

  the language it was written it was a [TS]

  colonial language and with with the [TS]

  introduction of those ideas there was [TS]

  this splintering of what we understood [TS]

  to be the like what will that that any [TS]

  of us could agree on a common truth and [TS]

  with that if everybody has their own [TS]

  truth what was unforeseen was the work [TS]

  of by all of this was that was [TS]

  practically you cannot live in a world [TS]

  where everybody has their own truth [TS]

  or or rather you can but it's what it's [TS]

  all against all it is a war of all [TS]

  against all if every single person has [TS]

  the option of saying I don't like that [TS]

  word you used because the word is in a [TS]

  language that is that that that puts me [TS]

  at a disadvantage and so I'm choosing my [TS]

  own word to describe the thing and [TS]

  ultimately that's where we are now we [TS]

  are in no way we're living in a world [TS]

  where every single group is the people [TS]

  are bickering over the word to describe [TS]

  the thing that they are talking about [TS]

  they can't even agree that they're so [TS]

  far from being able to agree on a [TS]

  principle because they're arguing about [TS]

  whether it you know what to name what to [TS]

  name one another on anything if [TS]

  something is a fantastic idea we might [TS]

  not do it because we can agree on why [TS]

  it's a good idea [TS]

  well and that so then that follows from [TS]

  it right then everything every [TS]

  subsequent problem follows from this [TS]

  this shattering of of like what we held [TS]

  in common a common understanding and and [TS]

  and it isn't to say that foucault and [TS]

  Jared on all those critiques weren't [TS]

  interesting you know and and Chomsky I [TS]

  mean those are fascinating critiques and [TS]

  and you know I spent many years and I [TS]

  know you did to reading them and being [TS]

  like repeatedly kind of blown away by [TS]

  like oh wow heavy [TS]

  holy cow yeah I never thought of it that [TS]

  way like well everybody everybody should [TS]

  be lucky enough at some point in their [TS]

  twenties to be brutally destroyed in an [TS]

  argument by somebody who's a a really [TS]

  good dara dot deconstructionist yeah and [TS]

  you end the end the conversation almost [TS]

  sobbing because you're still confused [TS]

  about what you don't even know you're [TS]

  confused about it you know yeah it's [TS]

  really it's really illuminating [TS]

  experience that you understand how [TS]

  important languages to how we think I [TS]

  had those experiences multiple times and [TS]

  I can know and I limped out of the [TS]

  visible light weight but what about what [TS]

  a [TS]

  do with it yeah right i mean but i had [TS]

  that same exact experience arguing with [TS]

  up with a really informed Catholic about [TS]

  uh about abortion i had this the same [TS]

  experience in my early twenties a really [TS]

  intelligent informed Catholic person had [TS]

  his had the logic of his position so [TS]

  well understood and I was approaching [TS]

  the argument from like well I mean it's [TS]

  clear that blah blah it's clear that the [TS]

  woman has a right to her body but what [TS]

  and he was coming at it from this like [TS]

  it is human life [TS]

  I mean his life a sacred or is it [TS]

  garbage you know a very Socratic kind of [TS]

  like well i mean i guess if those are [TS]

  the choices sacred right well so if life [TS]

  is sacred [TS]

  you know any followed from there right [TS]

  um but but we're for myself [TS]

  there was there was a moment where those [TS]

  critiques stopped being just interesting [TS]

  intellectual like party favors [TS]

  I like ideas that we were like [TS]

  thought-provoking exercises in in how we [TS]

  see and think right it is but they [TS]

  became sometime in the eighties within [TS]

  the university's they became the be the [TS]

  the blueprint for us for a system for a [TS]

  four-day weekend at least started [TS]

  writing on the rule books and crayons [TS]

  because anything else would be dishonest [TS]

  exactly and we started saying like bit [TS]

  like our project from the left is to you [TS]

  know we were always terrified that the [TS]

  right is like is like infiltrating [TS]

  school boards and they're infiltrating [TS]

  zoning commissions and they're putting [TS]

  all their people in there who don't [TS]

  believe in evolution and all of a sudden [TS]

  we don't realize it until all of a [TS]

  sudden we can't get any textbooks in [TS]

  austin texas public schools because all [TS]

  these school boards are like have like [TS]

  the the right figured out that they were [TS]

  going to colonize those areas but the [TS]

  left was doing that [TS]

  years and years before and sort of [TS]

  colonizing all of the [TS]

  academic institutions and then social [TS]

  service institutions all the government [TS]

  institutions were were being infiltrated [TS]

  by people who had read these critiques [TS]

  and saw them as a framework for making [TS]

  public policy and so we now like every [TS]

  every sign that was going to be posted [TS]

  on the wall had to be in 15 different [TS]

  languages and at and that was just that [TS]

  was just seems like a no-brainer because [TS]

  everybody here spoke these different [TS]

  languages but of course the but the [TS]

  underlying idea was that you could not [TS]

  you could not effectively translate [TS]

  please do not finish off this bridge you [TS]

  couldn't really translate that it needed [TS]

  to be in all those different languages [TS]

  because translating it was an act of was [TS]

  an act of oppression almost you know it [TS]

  was a complete it's a comparative [TS]

  literature project of governance [TS]

  and-and-and complet is the last [TS]

  Department you want running the state [TS]

  and that's that [TS]

  so they introduced that they they [TS]

  started introducing that into like into [TS]

  local government and then into Congress [TS]

  throughout the eighties and nineties and [TS]

  the the right took that they saw it and [TS]

  they and in a way admired it and they [TS]

  took the lead on [TS]

  they took that lead and they said oh [TS]

  alright well if if you know if language [TS]

  has this power and if if everybody has a [TS]

  relative truth and each relative truth [TS]

  is is of equal standing then we're going [TS]

  to start using language this way and [TS]

  we're going to start using our relative [TS]

  truth as a lever to to enact the [TS]

  programs that we are vested in and [TS]

  that's where that's where the world [TS]

  we're living in now [TS]

  this crazy land where where the one you [TS]

  know where the word right everybody's [TS]

  talking about our rights all the time [TS]

  but you can't get five people to agree [TS]

  what right even means like which writes [TS]

  exactly everybody's gotta everybody's [TS]

  got a new bill of rights right where's [TS]

  my bill of rights of these things cost [TS]

  thirty-five thousand dollars when they [TS]

  came out 35,000 buy something you could [TS]

  buy a house for 17,000 that's more than [TS]

  our house costs in 1976 oh yeah are our [TS]

  house cost less than a GMC RV 35 [TS]

  thousand dollars think about that it has [TS]

  aircraft-grade aluminum I've been fully [TS]

  engaged in this conversation every step [TS]

  of the way because it's fascinating to [TS]

  me but I've also been looking at a lot [TS]

  of photos and schematics done Johnny [TS]

  I've i found very important and there's [TS]

  a 23-foot ER and 26 for the 26 footer [TS]

  has 11 different floor plans available [TS]

  is like a lot on one very long ago where [TS]

  the people had outfitted it in bright [TS]

  green shag carpet and I was in fucking [TS]

  heaven [TS]

  it was like I walked and I walked into [TS]

  this thing and I was eight years old it [TS]

  was 1976 and I've never had any fears i [TS]

  was just gonna drive around America in [TS]

  this giant beanbag chair and I I'd you [TS]

  know I don't even know how I don't even [TS]

  know how it is that i haven't bought one [TS]

  already and I've talked to a couple of [TS]

  people and they say listen you can get [TS]

  them for cheap out there but don't buy a [TS]

  cheap one because it sounds like they [TS]

  had some reliability problems when they [TS]

  have a that's the thing anytime you [TS]

  introduce a bunch of new technology in [TS]

  one situation one platform you're going [TS]

  to have some have some situations where [TS]

  the new technology doesn't have the [TS]

  Chinese had made this [TS]

  the Chinese admit it wouldn't shock [TS]

  absorbers [TS]