Roderick on the Line

Ep. 123: "Your Mom Doesn't Work Here"


  this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  hello I John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

  oh it's going well how are you going I'm [TS]

  doing extremely well happy anniversary [TS]

  oh really mm-hmm do we have an [TS]

  anniversary [TS]

  yeah every year and there was this week [TS]

  three years ago we started doing this I [TS]

  don't really have anything special to [TS]

  say about that i just wanna make sure I [TS]

  didn't let the day go by [TS]

  wow I don't know if you three years ago [TS]

  thought that we would still be doing [TS]

  this three years from now i don't know [TS]

  what I thought three years ago i've [TS]

  liked that too [TS]

  I'm not gonna like the ocean just ways [TS]

  wasn't at the Clinton administration I [TS]

  think so it might have been [TS]

  yeah yeah you have some listeners that [TS]

  weren't even born during the Clinton [TS]

  administration that's not true is it [TS]

  true true i don't know i do this thing I [TS]

  just drop a decade sometimes you know [TS]

  about to drop a kid on a fool [TS]

  yeah we're all going I can't believe [TS]

  it's 20 years since ronald reagan was [TS]

  president go away minutes [TS]

  I just should be as I was coming down [TS]

  here i just did the thing where I was [TS]

  driving along and I just drove in the [TS]

  wrong direction or I don't go down the [TS]

  wrong way towards your office studio or [TS]

  either in the wrong way [TS]

  no no the wrong the wrong way toward [TS]

  where I was going I was just thinking [TS]

  you know what I was thinking about I was [TS]

  thinking about young black Republicans [TS]

  and that haha the subject classic Merlin [TS]

  grown through that i only got you [TS]

  thinking it returned and I did instead [TS]

  of right yeah I went I went the wrong [TS]

  way and then I was like where am I you [TS]

  know I got to an intersection was like [TS]

  which way do I go from here [TS]

  the answer was no way that is [TS]

  interactive and teaching what happens [TS]

  when you think about politics [TS]

  well it might be it might be true that I [TS]

  should specifically not think about [TS]

  young black Republicans because it's a [TS]

  because it's kind of like ass like a [TS]

  smoke fog that's not the log cabin [TS]

  republicans is it [TS]

  no those are the young gay Republicans [TS]

  or not even young anymore [TS]

  lot of them have matured into the [TS]

  middle-aged gay Republican but there [TS]

  must be some young gay black Republicans [TS]

  imagine you could get more tail than [TS]

  Sinatra i know for a fact there are I I [TS]

  made it up I made it a policy to [TS]

  investigate the culture of young black [TS]

  Republicans and I was fairly amazed at [TS]

  what I found really yeah haha you have [TS]

  the most expressive voice it's like it's [TS]

  like having an expressive face but you [TS]

  can communicate such subtlety with a [TS]

  hole with only a couple of syllables [TS]

  haha i'm gonna cover that and so I'll [TS]

  ride along but you drop the studio right [TS]

  nice when today is the first day of the [TS]

  seattle seahawks football-playing team [TS]

  i'll go hawks and they are going to play [TS]

  the green bay packers and so everyone is [TS]

  very excited that follows that kind of [TS]

  sport and you can feel it in the [TS]

  neighborhood already there's a guy in [TS]

  there's a guy standing with the with the [TS]

  with an orange flag in front of the [TS]

  parking lot where i normally park and he [TS]

  has a sign that says parking fifty [TS]

  dollars [TS]

  wow just parking parking fifty dollars [TS]

  and the game doesn't start for seven [TS]

  hours [TS]

  Wow and he's out there already selling [TS]

  parking for fifty dollars and so when I [TS]

  got into my parking lot so I just like [TS]

  drove by man waved and he was like uh I [TS]

  was like yeah yeah I've got a parking [TS]

  spot i get back in there and there's a [TS]

  bus a full-on like a rockstar bus with [TS]

  vancouver plates already parked in the [TS]

  parking lot taking up [TS]

  however many at eight spots and the bus [TS]

  is full of canadians who are who are [TS]

  tailgating the seahawks game and they're [TS]

  in there drinking already it's ten [TS]

  o'clock in the morning [TS]

  wow yeah so that that is just a [TS]

  harbinger of of the day to come here [TS]

  we've had a big dust up here because the [TS]

  our football team is called the 49ers [TS]

  and the races [TS]

  yeah I know I know it's it's you know [TS]

  all 49ers love gold huh [TS]

  now i know right what about the people [TS]

  became in 54 in 48 yeah right where [TS]

  their parade was their stadium i'll tell [TS]

  you where the stadium is used to be at [TS]

  Candlestick Park which is you know [TS]

  already kind of on the the rim of San [TS]

  Francisco they built a new state in the [TS]

  levi's stadium has been built in santa [TS]

  clara what now I know pretty much [TS]

  everything you stand for something on [TS]

  the peninsula so you don't need to keep [TS]

  track but basically long story short [TS]

  ar-ar-ar towns football organization now [TS]

  has the distinction of having the [TS]

  stadium that is farthest from its actual [TS]

  town of anybody in the NFL really did [TS]

  yeah right i mean i'm not a football is [TS]

  football day like excluding Silicon [TS]

  Valley traffic like it's gonna take an [TS]

  hour to drive there isn't that isn't [TS]

  that crazy and still the San Francisco [TS]

  49ers they built a whole big stadium [TS]

  it's crazy i read a rundown I mean you [TS]

  got you go to sports gaming things [TS]

  sometimes some you know it's gotten [TS]

  pretty costly you might you might [TS]

  football you might spend like two [TS]

  hundred dollars on a ticket yes that's [TS]

  is that real is that really true [TS]

  well yeah because you know that's the [TS]

  whole game of professional sports right [TS]

  uh aside from the game of actually [TS]

  playing the game the game is to is to [TS]

  figure out a way to get public money to [TS]

  build a giant sports stadium which then [TS]

  the majority of his devoted exclusively [TS]

  to private wealth and if you spin that [TS]

  if you spin it right you can convince [TS]

  the municipalities and the people that [TS]

  having the sports team that injects a [TS]

  lot of money into the economy [TS]

  and it is somehow it's a public good and [TS]

  right having it having a good sports [TS]

  team is like a promotes the city in all [TS]

  these you know these confusing ways that [TS]

  can't really be quantified and then you [TS]

  then you set aside whole levels of the [TS]

  stadium for multi multi million dollar [TS]

  private boxes and with a baseball team [TS]

  my understanding of how this works the [TS]

  baseball team place 200k play 650 games [TS]

  here 651 dave was not including the suit [TS]

  the the superbowl I think it has five [TS]

  games a year in football season [TS]

  yeah exactly standing amortize it you [TS]

  got it that's right way and yet you [TS]

  gotta charge big big big dollar so for [TS]

  instance i have been to probably [TS]

  conservatively 6,000 Mariners games [TS]

  understand these are just step on um but [TS]

  I have been a sense they tore the [TS]

  kingdom down and built the and built the [TS]

  but the steel taco that replaced it [TS]

  I have been 20 Seahawks games because [TS]

  you know who's gonna I mean I'll throw [TS]

  ten dollars and mariners game go sit in [TS]

  the stands get a hot dog yeah cares but [TS]

  two hundred dollars to go to go sit in a [TS]

  football stadium no thanks [TS]

  yeah you know it's I don't have a super [TS]

  strong opinion about it that's backed up [TS]

  by how little i've actually chosen to [TS]

  learn about this but i dunno it's [TS]

  dispiriting its way I like I live in a [TS]

  part of town where there are uh matters [TS]

  like a lot of like quick working-class [TS]

  people who lived in San Francisco a long [TS]

  time and you know they'll wear the the [TS]

  several 49ers hat and 14 and undershirt [TS]

  and the 49ers jacket and they're all [TS]

  super into it [TS]

  socks 49er Sox yeah but it's just that [TS]

  same little needy when you see people [TS]

  with multiple articles of sports [TS]

  clothing [TS]

  it's like this guy's whose Twitter [TS]

  picture is then with a girl like proven [TS]

  something you know I knew a guy and [TS]

  hunger never seemed weird I which 1i [TS]

  don't you the guy right [TS]

  haha i know a guy and hungry who is the [TS]

  world's biggest Ramones [TS]

  in and he was one of these guys that if [TS]

  you ask him a question the answer was [TS]

  the Ramones and it didn't matter what [TS]

  did matter what the question always [TS]

  bring it back to the ramones guy its [TS]

  that's it that's it that's it scanning [TS]

  the Ramones The Ramones you always bring [TS]

  back to the remote there's an anecdote [TS]

  here somewhere where he mentions like [TS]

  Tommy Robin yeah you don't you're gonna [TS]

  hear about the ramones one way or [TS]

  another if you talk to this guy for more [TS]

  than a few minutes and he's you know [TS]

  he's a smart guy he's an interesting guy [TS]

  he's lit LED an interesting life but he [TS]

  decided that the the Ramones were the [TS]

  thing that he was going to be the expert [TS]

  on or the not the expert but like The [TS]

  Ramones were going to be his church and [TS]

  I and he gave me a lot of insight into [TS]

  sports fans because it's like yeah if [TS]

  you choose the 49ers and that's your [TS]

  church and all year long you're just you [TS]

  know you just praying at the altar the [TS]

  49ers it takes care of a lot of other [TS]

  conversational topics that you might [TS]

  have to think about you can just sort of [TS]

  knots need you don't have to occupy [TS]

  yourself with those questions because [TS]

  you can always bring it back to the [TS]

  49ers now I think I think you're totally [TS]

  right and that's certainly true that's [TS]

  an interesting topic there's a lot of [TS]

  things like that but you know there was [TS]

  a time even before candlestick when they [TS]

  just played at kezar and I think he's [TS]

  probably seen keys are so i can write by [TS]

  the Panhandle is this you have seen in a [TS]

  dirty harry movie it's a it's a it's a [TS]

  little stadium [TS]

  it looks like it looks like a high [TS]

  school stadium that they're getting [TS]

  ready to replace but I mean it really [TS]

  you read these people's anecdotes and [TS]

  it's so sweet i mean i get caii kid [TS]

  about the sports but I understand when [TS]

  people talk about sports they're often [TS]

  actually talking about family that's [TS]

  important always remember when you make [TS]

  fun of sports because you're really [TS]

  talking about really know how watching [TS]

  games and going to games with your [TS]

  family you know throw a football around [TS]

  the parking lot before a game and in [TS]

  this case being out there was there was [TS]

  a time when Morgan Freeman mode it was [TS]

  time when a man can take his children to [TS]

  a game and have it not caustic and my [TS]

  mother house but you go there you just [TS]

  go to kezar as a few bucks to get in you [TS]

  can just kind of wandering it was like a [TS]

  whole production like going to gain [TS]

  today sounds like something where you [TS]

  know you gotta plan a lot of stuff [TS]

  no and then it's like the beers or nine [TS]

  dollars for a regular-sized beer so [TS]

  everybody's got drunk in the parking lot [TS]

  before they go in I think we're seeing [TS]

  this culture wide as a side effect of [TS]

  the breakdown of you know the breakdown [TS]

  of the above the big monolithic cultural [TS]

  apparatus right let's save this one can [TS]

  I just it's our anniversary I thought [TS]

  maybe we could talk about something that [TS]

  we can put out and now we're know what I [TS]

  mean 11 and i got a fear a little bit [TS]

  but I knew this episode of rock on the [TS]

  line is sponsored by our good friends at [TS]

  Squarespace the only one platform that [TS]

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  teams in New York City dublin and [TS]

  Portland John I've you square space for [TS]

  three years now every episode of rock [TS]

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  and check out our thanks to squarespace [TS]

  for sporting Roderick on the line we [TS]

  could not do without you know that the [TS]

  churches are gone for paid my fee ism is [TS]

  you know is this is not doesn't have the [TS]

  effect on the culture that it used to [TS]

  we don't we don't follow the three big [TS]

  networks anymore you know journalism is [TS]

  balkanized everybody's got their iphone [TS]

  nobody reads books [TS]

  yeah but only for us but there's a [TS]

  problem [TS]

  we don't trust the government uh huh is [TS]

  an app developers but but what if what [TS]

  if what happens is that humanity revert [TS]

  to its original its original project [TS]

  which is is to organize itself according [TS]

  two clans and tribes right and I no [TS]

  intercourse in self-destruction that's [TS]

  why we're here [TS]

  that's exactly right and and that but [TS]

  everybody you know everybody that the [TS]

  internet is beautiful for this everybody [TS]

  grabs onto their their their tribal [TS]

  identifier 'he's right and then they're [TS]

  bronies are there juggalos or you know [TS]

  the one guy that's both the brownie and [TS]

  drop below the Berlitz the nose Regulus [TS]

  and then and then it's just it's a mad [TS]

  dash for people to figure out how to [TS]

  profit from that tribalism you know to [TS]

  print up the printed t-shirts at a quick [TS]

  before the tribe morphs and sell as many [TS]

  of them as you can [TS]

  who you know and you're walking around [TS]

  town like in seattle the the Sonics I [TS]

  guess the Sonics aren't team anymore but [TS]

  the what are they called that the the [TS]

  sockers Seattle soccers the Seattle so [TS]

  the sockers they have because it had the [TS]

  the in the 1700 thriving soccer industry [TS]

  in the Pacific Northwest and and now [TS]

  we're going we're going back to our [TS]

  original sacher roots here and you see [TS]

  people walking around all year long in [TS]

  this in this soccer costume which which [TS]

  is the color I can't describe you have [TS]

  to see the Seattle soccer in fact that [TS]

  more about the Seattle soccers the [TS]

  Seattle soccer's their colors are like [TS]

  colors that you wouldn't you wouldn't [TS]

  make it [TS]

  toddlers tollway out of these colors [TS]

  because you would be afraid of the [TS]

  effect that it would have on the kiddo [TS]

  growing season is it green and like [TS]

  cerulean sort of blue [TS]

  yeah it's like puce grouping and [TS]

  cerulean blue it's that they are there [TS]

  like at some time and I test right you [TS]

  would you if you made if you made a few [TS]

  made children's blocks out of this you [TS]

  would feel like it was some [TS]

  it was some sort of seventies a like [TS]

  Waldorf School a great experience but [TS]

  here's a good sign John is that doesn't [TS]

  look very flattering on the players so i [TS]

  can only imagine what it looks like on [TS]

  the fans of the sockers and that's [TS]

  what's so extraordinary like they have [TS]

  embraced the fans have embraced these [TS]

  colors and you see them all over the [TS]

  town and they are colors that not only [TS]

  do not appear in nature but had never [TS]

  really appeared in fashion before right [TS]

  throughout the whole history of threat [TS]

  from i observed history of fashion [TS]

  there was never a time that color of [TS]

  green ever was used [TS]

  looks like pond scum and a pond at [TS]

  disneyland so so they've so they've that [TS]

  you know in a way they've done a [TS]

  tremendous job of of a branding their [TS]

  team because people haven't rejected the [TS]

  color they've embraced it and you could [TS]

  see a guy a mile and a half away and [TS]

  know that he's the sounders now i see [TS]

  yeah that's true that's true no no one [TS]

  else oh you wouldn't use that color for [TS]

  anything else that they they found the [TS]

  one thing that they could you know [TS]

  because it was safety orange or whenever [TS]

  you just feel like the guy was like if [TS]

  you're a fan patient you're a fan of [TS]

  patriots you were like red white and [TS]

  blue right is that right right when I [TS]

  hold my in-laws my family they vary in [TS]

  the Patriots but that's not as [TS]

  distinctive yellow around my high school [TS]

  we had green we had bright green and [TS]

  bright yellow and was incredibly [TS]

  unflattering my high school was powder [TS]

  blue red white and blue but the blue was [TS]

  powder blue and it's still kind of [TS]

  haunts me that is how flattering because [TS]

  our main opponents were black and orange [TS]

  and they just looked so badass black and [TS]

  orange just like yeah Halloween colors [TS]

  and we were we were red white and packed [TS]

  powder blue and our and our mascot was [TS]

  the Thunderbird which isn't even really [TS]

  a thing you know when you talk about [TS]

  that though because we might as well [TS]

  bring religion into the mix I I think [TS]

  you talked about how recently about how [TS]

  you know wasn't that long ago [TS]

  that letter is a positive feeling or [TS]

  negative feeling Presbyterian meant [TS]

  something to you like an Episcopalian [TS]

  meant something to you were you an [TS]

  irish-catholic wearing an Italian [TS]

  Catholic they're all these gradations [TS]

  that even if you weren't like a super [TS]

  observant person those meant the same [TS]

  kinds of stuff to average American [TS]

  people that never was like us today [TS]

  associated with certain colleges oh you [TS]

  want to brown or you want to know like [TS]

  there's that certain kind of anybody [TS]

  else would go likewise that wasn't a [TS]

  joke on the simpsons talking about brown [TS]

  like that doesn't make any sense but the [TS]

  other thing that's interesting is first [TS]

  of all like I think it's a think is [TS]

  interesting to look at the way religion [TS]

  changed through the 60 seventies [TS]

  eighties when you got more into this you [TS]

  know but promise on my ass but the [TS]

  combination of like people become more [TS]

  diffuse people's like total acceptance [TS]

  of whatever was said by their clergy [TS]

  person I think tend to get a little bit [TS]

  more dissolute overtime but also you got [TS]

  any more like they call i first started [TS]

  buffet Catholicism the idea that you [TS]

  would accept these things and not those [TS]

  things and you know you might be [TS]

  incredibly Arden partly Catholic about [TS]

  these things and not those but you see [TS]

  that now today in all these million [TS]

  other things doctor who like in the [TS]

  doctor who fan community is it's not [TS]

  just like Doctor Who lots of people like [TS]

  Doctor Who you Napoli really how [TS]

  incredibly specific people get that is [TS]

  true of anything when I listen to NPR [TS]

  now i know i'm out of exciting [TS]

  recognizing your bands on NPR and talk [TS]

  about new pornographers yesterday hit [TS]

  like I got 100 we're just talking to [TS]

  these guys with beards I don't know who [TS]

  they are but like there's so much you [TS]

  realize instrument punk-rock apps think [TS]

  about all the flavors of punk rock but [TS]

  you know you know I mentioned with [TS]

  Doctor Who because it is something that [TS]

  I enjoy that I'm a small fan of compared [TS]

  to the mega fans but I've never seen so [TS]

  much diversity in a community that I'm [TS]

  aware of that there were people get [TS]

  along but at the same time there are [TS]

  some people who really hate this [TS]

  particular doctor they really love this [TS]

  particular duck like the doctor to be [TS]

  like an alien like that like the doctor [TS]

  be like a human they hate this companion [TS]

  love this campaign but like it's almost [TS]

  endless the number of combinations in [TS]

  fandom and you might love the companion [TS]

  in this episode you know short stuff [TS]

  like Star Wars I mean it's just weird [TS]

  because that's something that's popped [TS]

  up [TS]

  as a fan thing especially the last five [TS]

  years there's always been like sci-fi [TS]

  fans but like it's this huge thing it's [TS]

  true and comics but like it gives you [TS]

  that satisfaction of being part of a [TS]

  community while still being incredibly [TS]

  passionate about something and on top of [TS]

  it all [TS]

  you're not just some nerd who likes nerd [TS]

  stuff you're a very specific kind of [TS]

  nerd and you're remembering sec you're [TS]

  in it you're in a tribe but you will [TS]

  really get to pick where you get to sit [TS]

  and I I think that's both very [TS]

  interesting and can potentially be a [TS]

  little divisive because things start to [TS]

  seem real but but i mean i agree with [TS]

  you you don't have the same institutions [TS]

  that she used to and now that we all get [TS]

  to kind of pick our family [TS]

  I think she interesting stuff coming out [TS]

  of that it's definitely gonna make very [TS]

  it's going to make for a very [TS]

  interesting brand base to stick fighting [TS]

  tournaments [TS]

  oh now with a be sponsors or is that the [TS]

  people you follow on twitter like I like [TS]

  a best buy like people follow best buy [TS]

  on Twitter and write out a certain point [TS]

  all of the doctor who fans are going to [TS]

  sit on one side of the stadium against [TS]

  all of the Star Trek fans in the big [TS]

  doctor who star trek fans stick fight [TS]

  tournaments this is like England in the [TS]

  in the late thirties you gotta pick a [TS]

  side right but at a certain point when [TS]

  the doctor who fans go back to the you [TS]

  know the area around santa clara where [TS]

  they have made their homeland and the [TS]

  started their settlements yeah the Star [TS]

  Trek fans go down to Santa Barbara where [TS]

  they have made their home wins that that [TS]

  the the regional stick fighting is all [TS]

  going to happen between the sexes right [TS]

  you're going to have to qualify for the [TS]

  Star Trek team by fight you know you're [TS]

  you're like you're Kirk cause player and [TS]

  you're gonna have to fight against a DNI [TS]

  cause player in order to get that right [TS]

  at the end Troy deanna troi that's right [TS]

  to different areas [TS]

  I know that name I've read that name [TS]

  yeah and so he's an empath i was i was [TS]

  standing out in front of packs the [TS]

  videogame conference the other day it [TS]

  was some people I know and like and we [TS]

  we had reason we had reason to take [TS]

  recourse in our phones [TS]

  for a moment and so everybody pulled [TS]

  their phones out and i looked around and [TS]

  i was the only one with an iphone how [TS]

  that's super interesting let android [TS]

  android they all had android phones and [TS]

  I was and the thing is they didn't make [TS]

  mention of it and I was like oh whoa do [TS]

  you guys all have android phones and [TS]

  they all looked up and kinda had that [TS]

  like huh oh [TS]

  doesn't everyone have an android phone [TS]

  mind a lot of setup you guys are [TS]

  Catholic [TS]

  yeah right like they were going to [TS]

  wonder why would you need to mention [TS]

  what are you talking about whatever [TS]

  you'd 0 is there another kind of phone [TS]

  other than android phone and some of it [TS]

  felt a little bit like practiced but [TS]

  also times have changed just in the last [TS]

  couple years when you wear now that's a [TS]

  not only viable but like to some people [TS]

  I guess so [TS]

  always great greatly preferable for [TS]

  certain people in many ways [TS]

  yeah right and so and they just you know [TS]

  back to like people poop and all of a [TS]

  sudden I felt like I was on enemy [TS]

  territory and I was like oh I don't even [TS]

  care about like I'm not a person who [TS]

  brand identifies but I'm used to in [TS]

  rock-and-roll circles at least [TS]

  everybody's got an iphone and the and so [TS]

  you never have to think about what kind [TS]

  of phone you have anymore you [TS]

  everybody's got an iphone and so it's [TS]

  just assume that that's the only kind of [TS]

  phone and those questions are removed [TS]

  mmm yeah but what happens when somebody [TS]

  texts you and it's a green bubble utd's [TS]

  do you think you think you can teach [TS]

  anything like a steer might what usually [TS]

  goes through my mind is oh now that [TS]

  features working again or now it's not [TS]

  again is the bigger level of blue [TS]

  bubbles mean it's somebody you know why [TS]

  but I text my text my mom all the time [TS]

  and sometimes it's in a green bubble and [TS]

  sometimes in a blue bubble and it and [TS]

  she has a just like mine and so I feel [TS]

  like that is that is another one of [TS]

  it's things that like wouldn't that be [TS]

  interesting if it worked well you're [TS]

  like they're gonna make bigger phones so [TS]

  that's going to be good for you that's [TS]

  gonna be getting really really big fun i [TS]

  have to say this is the thing I'm I'm [TS]

  loath to say because it feels like [TS]

  product promotion but Apple issued that [TS]

  recall all right get the battery thing [TS]

  and I went in and my phone my phone [TS]

  qualified and they gave me a new phone [TS]

  is it and did you get you five we're [TS]

  gonna give you five s uh it's a that [TS]

  they have a they have an internal [TS]

  requirement that it be exactly the same [TS]

  as the phone color you had before [TS]

  that's cool still I mean but it's a [TS]

  brand-new is a refurbished phoner [TS]

  Angelus brand new phone that's awesome [TS]

  going off the shelf and now i don't have [TS]

  the battery problems anymore i go all [TS]

  day long and my phone doesn't die and it [TS]

  and it felt for it felt you know like an [TS]

  example of I mean the my phones two [TS]

  years old at this point and it had been [TS]

  through a couple of different rainstorms [TS]

  it went through the washing machine one [TS]

  time huh [TS]

  I yeah I i used it as a shuttlecock in [TS]

  the in well as I was taking a carpet [TS]

  knitting class the phone was pretty [TS]

  badly damaged get what I'm back to a [TS]

  badminton birdie [TS]

  I took AI took am I took like a berber [TS]

  carpet weaving class and you know you [TS]

  he is if he used the phone as a little [TS]

  shuttlecock [TS]

  ah but the but the company made good on [TS]

  their on their failure right [TS]

  eventually yeah yeah they had they they [TS]

  did a terrible thing they made a bad [TS]

  phone Steve Jobs died and no one was in [TS]

  charge anymore that's right and they put [TS]

  a bad thing out into the world and then [TS]

  two years later they made it right and I [TS]

  am i i'm i'm pleased as well now you got [TS]

  more battery time to give you more time [TS]

  to be frustrated with the things that [TS]

  don't work right on it [TS]

  well not reach our church except i am [TS]

  gradually I am gradually taking a [TS]

  oops off I i put your app threes on [TS]

  there before but i am taking other apps [TS]

  off good-for-you everyday i take some [TS]

  apps off and every day my I walk a [TS]

  little lighter and and and I I feel a [TS]

  little stronger you know you can you can [TS]

  always get him back but you know get [TS]

  them off there is a very freeing feeling [TS]

  did you ever get that other facebook app [TS]

  that you needed so I took facebook off [TS]

  my phone [TS]

  wow it's gone you're kidding gone [TS]

  completely [TS]

  that must have been hard well I you know [TS]

  what it was i sat down and I said you [TS]

  because because the logic i was using [TS]

  was when i get a lot of work through [TS]

  facebook people contact me on facebook [TS]

  and they give me that offers two things [TS]

  and if I don't have facebook on there [TS]

  I'm missing out on all these people [TS]

  these booking agents who are only [TS]

  communicating through facebook anymore [TS]

  but the more I thought about it i sat [TS]

  down and I ran like well let's name the [TS]

  top 10 gigs you've gotten from people [TS]

  contacting you on facebook i was like mm [TS]

  mm right it's mostly garbage you know [TS]

  it's mostly a I do get a lot of i do end [TS]

  up doing a lot of things but it's like [TS]

  hey will you to be in it can i interview [TS]

  you for my high school paper or I don't [TS]

  you know frankly I couldn't remember a [TS]

  single thing and and I felt like if if [TS]

  Facebook the danger is that my facebook [TS]

  page is still out there and so people [TS]

  are going to send me messages on it and [TS]

  then wonder why I didn't reply right but [TS]

  I I can't hold it all that guilt I just [TS]

  took it off i just took it off and I [TS]

  stopped thinking about it that's you [TS]

  know that's the end of the story cold [TS]

  turkey and and it's a it's it's already [TS]

  a delightful to not have that but really [TS]

  really I'm its I'm just I'm narrowing in [TS]

  on twitter i'm i'm stalking it [TS]

  I'm thinking about it you know i'm [TS]

  evaluating what twitter is for me and [TS]

  I'm and I'm I'm coming close to coming [TS]

  close to making a decision to having a [TS]

  referendum on it [TS]

  I keep thinking I keep thinking the [TS]

  there's Benny's legitimately bad things [TS]

  everybody feels bad about this is [TS]

  generally these bad things everybody [TS]

  doesn't like and I keep thinking okay [TS]

  well I guess that that's good that we're [TS]

  getting maybe this progress on that you [TS]

  know on some kind of an issue you know [TS]

  this is the same way that everybody [TS]

  turned their icons green for Iran so we [TS]

  can save them and then they change them [TS]

  back and I keep thinking you know maybe [TS]

  we've reached peak outrage and then it's [TS]

  like it can't be 18 hours before [TS]

  somebody a bunch of people are suddenly [TS]

  mad about a new thing and it really i'm [TS]

  not trying to be cynical because I [TS]

  understand everybody has their reasons [TS]

  but it really it's really i'm reminded [TS]

  when I start getting frustrated about it [TS]

  because it becomes not as fun to use if [TS]

  that's most of what's there [TS]

  it's like you know you're never gonna be [TS]

  not outraged there's always gonna be [TS]

  another thing that you have to have [TS]

  blind righteous outrage about and the [TS]

  bar seems to be getting impossibly low [TS]

  for that it's solo that's exactly right [TS]

  and at least one thing i want to clarify [TS]

  this because I i can hear these words [TS]

  coming out of my mouth and I know what [TS]

  it sounds like i'm not talking about [TS]

  anybody's particular beef and i'm not [TS]

  talking about anybody's particular right [TS]

  right exactly as a writer about the [TS]

  right to feel how they want about stuff [TS]

  but sometimes when I look at the movie [TS]

  listings i don't see any movies I want [TS]

  to go to and more and more that doesn't [TS]

  make me not like movies or hate people [TS]

  who make movies but it does make me have [TS]

  three or four weeks go by were like wow [TS]

  this is really not for me [TS]

  yeah that's what it feels like [TS]

  everything is I'm the reason I'm having [TS]

  this experience is that i'm at that it's [TS]

  it's very personal right like i have [TS]

  always been interested in what's going [TS]

  on and I've always been interested in [TS]

  engaging in the culture as it is now and [TS]

  the end and talking about the [TS]

  contemporary ideas [TS]

  but i have never been someone who's felt [TS]

  a special outraged about anything and I [TS]

  find myself being consumed on a daily [TS]

  basis with you know that that that [TS]

  tightening in the chest and that knot in [TS]

  the stomach where it's not a response to [TS]

  the events that are being debated it's a [TS]

  response to the debate her and and my [TS]

  aunt and my feeling like I need to [TS]

  engage in the debate and I need to be it [TS]

  united we need to be in there throwing [TS]

  elbows and like making sure that my [TS]

  point is heard and all the stuffin you [TS]

  know I did a series of events at [TS]

  bumbershoot this year [TS]

  oh yeah I want to hear how that went and [TS]

  it was really great [TS]

  it was you know I was sort of moderating [TS]

  discussions everyday and early on in the [TS]

  year we can depict various topics that [TS]

  felt really of the moment and we had [TS]

  these panel discussions where a couple [TS]

  of different people who were nominally [TS]

  experts on the topic got up and gave 10 [TS]

  minute presentations and then we sat [TS]

  together and discussed the ways in which [TS]

  those ideas overlapped one another and [TS]

  then we took questions from the audience [TS]

  and you know it was like a like an [TS]

  hour-long sort of words and ideas a [TS]

  panel and two of the days went off [TS]

  really really well they were they were [TS]

  the first day was why beards why [TS]

  twerking why now and it was you know it [TS]

  was a little bit of a culture clash I [TS]

  had my friend Elon who is a producer of [TS]

  The Bachelor come up and talk about [TS]

  beards because he has a kind of famously [TS]

  unruly beard he's on the plane [TS]

  he's a guy on the plane with diane and [TS]

  seven alright and then I i had one of [TS]

  the dancers for Big Freedia get up and [TS]

  talk about twerking on the culture [TS]

  twerking [TS]

  well it's a it was a real cultural [TS]

  exchange because this dancer is is it is [TS]

  from New Orleans and came up in the [TS]

  bounce music scene and through his [TS]

  twerking skills and his bounce dancing [TS]

  skills he's now seen the world right he [TS]

  was a guy that probably would have been [TS]

  had you know a New Orleans resident his [TS]

  whole life and never been outside of the [TS]

  city and through bounce and that the [TS]

  cultural through because the world has [TS]

  gotten excited about and has now [TS]

  appropriated his regional culture he [TS]

  gets an opportunity to go to Paris and [TS]

  and dance on television and talk for [TS]

  money work for money so talking to him [TS]

  about about the world and how it is that [TS]

  that his culture is so popular now in [TS]

  his awareness that it's a it's a kind of [TS]

  a moment in the Sun but but then he was [TS]

  talking about how bounce is 20 years old [TS]

  already and will and it will live in New [TS]

  Orleans for an eternity [TS]

  you know he was very sanguine about it [TS]

  and it was just it was a very [TS]

  interesting conversation and like how [TS]

  you wouldn't think those two things went [TS]

  together but that is exactly the kind of [TS]

  program we were trying to do and it's [TS]

  nice i mean you get a gloss on this but [TS]

  it's nice to hear somebody who's not [TS]

  super defensive about it and it's just [TS]

  glad to see people enjoying it and [TS]

  seeing it spread [TS]

  yeah and I felt like he has some like [TS]

  ownership on where he you know wants to [TS]

  get his percentage from it right and and [TS]

  and to his credit and I think this is [TS]

  you know I mean when you get an [TS]

  opportunity to talk two dancers about [TS]

  culture you get a different perspective [TS]

  you know and he's a he he is primarily [TS]

  interacting with the world with his body [TS]

  and like he wants to talk about he wants [TS]

  to dance primarily and then he's willing [TS]

  to talk about it and that was that was [TS]

  cool and and [TS]

  and exciting and then the the next day I [TS]

  had a brownie and a juggalo come out and [TS]

  describe their cultures that devil you [TS]

  say [TS]

  and really yeah and the the the brownie [TS]

  was a guy you may have seen on the [TS]

  internet called the world's manliest [TS]

  brownie [TS]

  he's a he's a a guy that works at a in [TS]

  the parts dept of a harley-davidson [TS]

  dealership in michigan and he's also a [TS]

  brownie he's six foot five and 300 [TS]

  pounds and he's got like a walrus [TS]

  mustache walrus mustache that guy and he [TS]

  had a real pattern about he'd been on a [TS]

  couple of documentary films about [TS]

  bronies and he was you he already was [TS]

  sort of the thought of himself as a [TS]

  celebrity and I and as a worldwide [TS]

  advocate for bronies but the juggalo was [TS]

  just a guy from Arizona name at the [TS]

  dragon spell TR AG a.m. and Matt the [TS]

  dragon was just a kid who was juggalo [TS]

  and had made a had made a film about [TS]

  juggalos and he had never given a public [TS]

  presentation before and he got up and [TS]

  started talking about juggalo lyfe and [TS]

  this on the audience that I that I had [TS]

  for this event you know just 250 or 300 [TS]

  Seattle liberals and they really wanted [TS]

  to confront this guy and I had I had [TS]

  people stand up during the [TS]

  question-and-answer and like and so one [TS]

  woman said i was like i'm gonna read use [TS]

  of insane clown posse lyrics now at Lana [TS]

  and I want you to defend because he you [TS]

  know he was saying like juggalos a [TS]

  community and we are we're good for the [TS]

  world [TS]

  she was like I want you to defend the [TS]

  misogyny and violence in this [TS]

  and he very gracefully and a and because [TS]

  he's just in the life right he he he's [TS]

  not he wasn't thinking he wasn't he [TS]

  wasn't prepared to be confronted but he [TS]

  handled her question the following way [TS]

  he said well you know the violence and [TS]

  all the like a clownish language that [TS]

  they use is well first of all they're [TS]

  clowns we are all clowns and that is [TS]

  because we feel like we're the clouds of [TS]

  society so a lot of it is pretend we're [TS]

  we're playing pretend [TS]

  but but that violence and and misogyny [TS]

  and all that stuff attracts violent [TS]

  young men to juggle ilysm and then once [TS]

  they're in the community we tame them [TS]

  and and show them that we are a family [TS]

  and that we and that they finally have a [TS]

  family and it was like you could hear [TS]

  the beacon here [TS]

  a hush descends on the room and I i [TS]

  think a lot of people didn't agree but [TS]

  they that hear this guy was defending [TS]

  his life and uh and I it was it was a [TS]

  truly an example of a roomful of people [TS]

  who left their with something to think [TS]

  about who you know like there's a lot of [TS]

  violent young guys out there that didn't [TS]

  have fathers and if they end up in the [TS]

  juggalo community [TS]

  I mean this guy's point was there are a [TS]

  lot worse things that could happen and [TS]

  juggalo is a is a place for them to land [TS]

  was like oh ok [TS]

  right on you know that's like that [TS]

  sounds like a successful event [TS]

  high fives all around ok so the last day [TS]

  the panel and I bet as it was [TS]

  approaching out i was thinking back nine [TS]

  months ago when I was when we were [TS]

  throwing ideas around and we settled on [TS]

  our ideas and I was just slapping my [TS]

  head going [TS]

  what were we thinking but the last day [TS]

  the panel was why cat [TS]

  why bullying why now and in trying to [TS]

  put this panel together it turned out I [TS]

  know the manager of grumpy cat he's a [TS]

  personal friend and he's and that's his [TS]

  job he manages grumpy cat and that's [TS]

  that catalyst grumpy [TS]

  it's the grumpy cat huh he's his manager [TS]

  I think he also manages that little some [TS]

  sort of 8-bit graphic the cat with the [TS]

  rainbow and the triangle eyes he manages [TS]

  that cat and he manages a one other cat [TS]

  another famous Catholic busy [TS]

  professional cat manager he's a [TS]

  professional internet cat manager so I [TS]

  know I'm gonna regret laughing in a [TS]

  minute i think that's that's kind of [TS]

  funny on the face of it [TS]

  oh yeah and in fact he's in vancouver [TS]

  right now I hope I don't give too much [TS]

  away but he's making a grumpy cat [TS]

  christmas movie [TS]

  well yeah but uh the bullying topic i [TS]

  tried to get dan Savage to be on the [TS]

  panel and he wrote me a very thoughtful [TS]

  email where he said I will be on any [TS]

  panel you ever ask me to be except [TS]

  bullying I do not ever want to talk [TS]

  about it again [TS]

  what because he's talked about a line [TS]

  yeah well he's the he's the he's the guy [TS]

  is the it gets better' guy he's the good [TS]

  let's get back in there gets better guy [TS]

  ok it was great except he has come under [TS]

  tremendous fire as everyone in the world [TS]

  does now who says anything off the [TS]

  reservation out in the world and I don't [TS]

  even know why he has come under fire [TS]

  from inside that community people yeah [TS]

  on the goddamn bowling topic I don't [TS]

  know why I don't I don't I didn't even [TS]

  research it enough to know why he feels [TS]

  burned but he's like I don't want to [TS]

  talk about anymore and I tried to get a [TS]

  couple of different people and nobody [TS]

  would talk about it and as as we got [TS]

  closer to bumbershoot I was like I [TS]

  understand why no one wants to talk [TS]

  about bullying in public [TS]

  and I'm wondering why I thought it was a [TS]

  good idea to have this on the have this [TS]

  is a topic and the more I thought about [TS]

  it was like oh i remember why i thought [TS]

  it was interesting because it is [TS]

  interesting it would be it's a very [TS]

  interesting topic it's a kid why is [TS]

  bullying why has it become so a [TS]

  fascinating to us at this moment in time [TS]

  it is occupying a huge place in the [TS]

  culture talking about bullying and what [TS]

  is bullying and what does it represent [TS]

  and I mean it's a fascinating topic and [TS]

  I remember why I chose it because i [TS]

  really really thought it would be [TS]

  interesting but as it got closer and I [TS]

  tried to get a panelist to represent it [TS]

  and all I got back was like no thank you [TS]

  i mean i would love to work with you [TS]

  anytime but please know i'm feeling I'm [TS]

  feeling down here John is it because [TS]

  talking about trying to stop bullying [TS]

  makes you a target for being bullied [TS]

  well let me let me tell you what [TS]

  happened so we got a woman who is a [TS]

  stand-up comedian from Portland who [TS]

  agreed to talk about bullying and she [TS]

  she got up and her presentation was a [TS]

  kind of polemical she cheat true on all [TS]

  the received wisdom that you would find [TS]

  on twitter about you know like we all [TS]

  agree that we live in a patriarchal rape [TS]

  culture where etc etc etc you know all [TS]

  the all the sort of like we all agree [TS]

  statements and what follows from that is [TS]

  uh is this you know is the fact that [TS]

  bullying is endemic in our culture and [TS]

  that it is that it creates all these [TS]

  terrible outcomes and that it is a that [TS]

  it's even further evidence that that [TS]

  that that are I guess that our culture [TS]

  is unsustainably broken and then the [TS]

  audience started and I i preface the [TS]

  whole event by saying like we're talking [TS]

  about these ideas in their contemporary [TS]

  context so we're not just going to get [TS]

  up here and define bullying and then [TS]

  argue about it it's what's interesting [TS]

  about this is like why now why is this [TS]

  happening now and how does this relate [TS]

  you know cats are very popular on the [TS]

  internet right now [TS]

  cats are a perennial topic they've [TS]

  always cats have been around for [TS]

  hundreds of thousands of years [TS]

  why are they so contemporary and [TS]

  bullying to has always existed why now [TS]

  you know that was the idea [TS]

  well so this woman gets up and actually [TS]

  does give just a definition of what she [TS]

  imagines the definitely she sounds like [TS]

  she unlike the others maybe she opened [TS]

  up this is good or bad [TS]

  it says she opened up by reminding you [TS]

  that we all agree on what describes this [TS]

  problem didn't just open up that was [TS]

  that was her entire presentation was [TS]

  just yet fully like you said polemic [TS]

  yeah was just was describing her not her [TS]

  take on it because there was nothing [TS]

  imaginative about it but basically just [TS]

  reading hashtag bullying presumptions [TS]

  and then the audience started raising [TS]

  their hands to ask questions and i felt [TS]

  like i was at a fucking chemtrails [TS]

  conference every person stood up and [TS]

  gave a five-minute long speech about [TS]

  what they thought about boolean no [TS]

  questions that were not even that there [TS]

  wasn't even the slightest hint of a [TS]

  question thread into these statements i [TS]

  was like being at a tea party town hall [TS]

  meeting and I'm sitting on stage and [TS]

  that this hasn't happened at any other [TS]

  panel that I've moderated and I'm trying [TS]

  to you know I'm like okay that's great [TS]

  well you know trying to interrupt and [TS]

  say like is there a question in this or [TS]

  do you have something at it and people [TS]

  were shouting talking over me sound so [TS]

  weird and then all of a sudden there's a [TS]

  there's like an invisible divide that [TS]

  starts [TS]

  down the middle of the room where think [TS]

  the cat guy is kind of setting up there [TS]

  like okay dokey well and he leans in and [TS]

  says you know I mean it's funny because [TS]

  a lot of these bullying a lot of this [TS]

  stuff we're um people don't know what [TS]

  the rules are a lot of that used to be [TS]

  solved in the old days by a like [TS]

  basically playground playground [TS]

  democracy right if you were a bully you [TS]

  got Smackdown by somebody else and maybe [TS]

  a little bit of bullying is what keeps [TS]

  people in line and all of a sudden half [TS]

  the room was like yeah and the other [TS]

  half of the room could not have been [TS]

  more appalled and they were like you [TS]

  know who and I was like whoa whoa that's [TS]

  you know that's that's he just [TS]

  contributed a sentence to the [TS]

  conversation it's not like we are no you [TS]

  put your Spears down everybody and that [TS]

  and I was as the moderator sitting on [TS]

  stage just hoping that the hour would be [TS]

  over [TS]

  it's at that point you know I feel after [TS]

  after 75 minutes at that point you go [TS]

  like I don't know there's a way out of [TS]

  this there and I was just I was I was [TS]

  you know anything you say is gonna be [TS]

  again this is not a value thing but once [TS]

  you start once one starts feeling that [TS]

  pressure you realize that anything you [TS]

  say is likely to make it worse [TS]

  there's nothing you can do or you're [TS]

  gonna sound dismissive of people you're [TS]

  gonna you're gonna sound like you're [TS]

  taking one side more seriously than the [TS]

  other and even in deciding like okay [TS]

  there's obviously two sides here you're [TS]

  going to give a lot of weight to one [TS]

  side just by acknowledging that it [TS]

  exists that's right you know what I mean [TS]

  it's like the whole network TV thing [TS]

  I've always trying to find the two sides [TS]

  to every issue it's just somebody [TS]

  agreeing that there could be a second [TS]

  side of this makes it extremely [TS]

  controversial yeah and-and-and that the [TS]

  woman had set up the setup fill the [TS]

  whole structure of it like well we all [TS]

  agree that we live in a patriarchal rape [TS]

  culture even matter people on the [TS]

  defensive [TS]

  well but the thing is like it to at just [TS]

  to illustrate what you're saying if you [TS]

  say well there are two sides to that the [TS]

  the only other side to that is that we [TS]

  do live in a patriarchal rape culture [TS]

  and you're denying it in [TS]

  like that's the only like you think of [TS]

  actually I don't accept the terms of [TS]

  your argument i want to argue with you [TS]

  but we're not going to start with that [TS]

  has to look it [TS]

  yeah and as the moderator it was you [TS]

  know I she she had a 10-minute [TS]

  presentation and by the time she was [TS]

  done like I couldn't I thought my job [TS]

  was not to debate or my job was just a [TS]

  physical facilitate the conversation and [TS]

  so it's like right okay I mean yeah it's [TS]

  like we all agree on cheez-its except we [TS]

  don't all agree on cheese but if you [TS]

  don't you know if you if you don't agree [TS]

  with cheese in within the context of [TS]

  that argument you are basically a cop in [TS]

  Ferguson um and so anyway it was it was [TS]

  an example of when I walked out of that [TS]

  panel i felt very emotionally raw and it [TS]

  it had transported me back to the place [TS]

  on the internet that I least wanted to [TS]

  be and I felt for a couple of hours like [TS]

  this totally new sensation which was [TS]

  maybe i am not i can maybe I maybe the [TS]

  culture is moving in a direction that I [TS]

  can't go you know I felt for a for a [TS]

  brief moment like it was 1969 and [TS]

  somebody was standing somebody was [TS]

  confronting me on the street and saying [TS]

  don't trust anyone over 30 and I was [TS]

  like wait a minute I'm 45 and I am [TS]

  trustworthy and the and the response was [TS]

  just like nope [TS]

  the end up right now you're [TS]

  counter-revolutionary yeah right having [TS]

  and now we call you a [TS]

  counterrevolutionary you're over 30 and [TS]

  that's where we've drawn the line and so [TS]

  and and and it you know as as history [TS]

  has shown don't trust anyone over 30 was [TS]

  a dumb idea [TS]

  I mean it was it fulfilled the purpose [TS]

  of it but as a rallying cry it can seem [TS]

  very sensible especially if you're doing [TS]

  a lot of illegal activities like at the [TS]

  time doing the felony of smoking pot you [TS]

  probably don't want to trust that many [TS]

  people over 30 but as a view of life it [TS]

  does not have longevity right if you're [TS]

  lucky that it's a moment it's a moment [TS]

  in history [TS]

  in 1968 i'm sure it made a ton of sense [TS]

  but yeah if you hold on to that as a as [TS]

  a as a guide [TS]

  you're gonna be really sad on your 30th [TS]

  birthday and it's anything amazing how [TS]

  few subtleties you you'll find things [TS]

  that began as things people shouted [TS]

  right and then i have this moment where [TS]

  I felt like oh maybe this is the [TS]

  contemporary version of that it is meant [TS]

  to be a scorched-earth policy [TS]

  you're either on one side of the this [TS]

  whole like constellation of issues and [TS]

  if you're if you're on the one side of [TS]

  it then you're uh then you are on the [TS]

  right side of history and if you're on [TS]

  any other side any one of 50 other [TS]

  potential viewpoints are all rejected [TS]

  because there's only one but there's [TS]

  only one way of linking all these ideas [TS]

  together and well that's a shame though [TS]

  I mean I I can only go by what you said [TS]

  but it's a shame that it was presented [TS]

  in that way because of all the things [TS]

  you're talking about that seems like one [TS]

  that could potentially people could find [TS]

  I'll get having made a slight difference [TS]

  agreements but there's the kind of thing [TS]

  most people kind of agree on which is [TS]

  something that's something we'd rather [TS]

  not have why is that interesting today [TS]

  in a way that it wasn't 30 years ago [TS]

  and why is that challenging today and it [TS]

  was the way it wasn't 30 years ago which [TS]

  is of a much more nuanced question it's [TS]

  a fascinating [TS]

  it's a fascinating topic icons my excuse [TS]

  for what it's worth at my kids school [TS]

  she's in first grade now and that last [TS]

  year and this year there's like these [TS]

  two like real big tentpole things that [TS]

  are school both of which i think pretty [TS]

  great [TS]

  what is this thing called restorative [TS]

  practices which sounds really fruity but [TS]

  it's basically just this idea of trying [TS]

  to learn to settle agreements by talking [TS]

  about what actually happened instead of [TS]

  like yelling at people and its really [TS]

  neat it's actually ever need any other [TS]

  one is bullying and you can tell that [TS]

  every third-grader that place has made a [TS]

  poster that's on the walls about [TS]

  bullying [TS]

  it's just everywhere really advise that [TS]

  this is a little I don't know it's not [TS]

  all that useful just saying no to [TS]

  bullying sure that really solves it but [TS]

  the thing is they want the school once [TS]

  you understand the bullying is not okay [TS]

  here that's on every wall [TS]

  I don't know with the net result of that [TS]

  is but I'm telling you this is a as [TS]

  current as today's headlines [TS]

  I think that the I think that the net [TS]

  result is that a lot of kids that are 10 [TS]

  years old right now [TS]

  if you said have you you know is they're [TS]

  bullying in your school they would they [TS]

  would go what know something about [TS]

  looking on the sides [TS]

  yeah there's no bullying at all [TS]

  and-and-and in it in a way considering [TS]

  how much bullying there was that when we [TS]

  were kids that is [TS]

  you know that's I think a tremendous [TS]

  advance [TS]

  except except what you know the dark [TS]

  side of that is like like our art I mean [TS]

  are they prosecuting kids like are [TS]

  adults hyper-vigilant over them me in a [TS]

  way that one piece of that one piece of [TS]

  it is the basic educational process of [TS]

  saying something over and over often [TS]

  enough and having different people say [TS]

  that the same way off enough over and [TS]

  over that it does start to see more [TS]

  conventional wisdom so God willing that [TS]

  would be it [TS]

  that's not gonna have a huge effect on [TS]

  some of his father's beating them up at [TS]

  home and want to come into school and [TS]

  find somebody shrimpy to hit that's a [TS]

  much more complicated problem that [TS]

  doesn't come down to as easy as stop [TS]

  bullying but but somebody somebody in [TS]

  middle school high school college for [TS]

  chance somebody out there started that [TS]

  bullying some time for some reason it [TS]

  didn't that the just didn't probably [TS]

  come out of you know spontaneous [TS]

  generation so I mean I think they're [TS]

  trying to you know put down the seeds [TS]

  and I don't think I don't see it like I [TS]

  used to you know you don't see just [TS]

  because the way kids are supervised [TS]

  today it's different but I mean yeah I [TS]

  mean who knows who knows the the dread [TS]

  you have is a little kid know when I [TS]

  walk around this corner i'm going to be [TS]

  facing this thing and that happens every [TS]

  day right probably have you know it's [TS]

  happening [TS]

  wherewhere kid is gonna throw rocks at [TS]

  you or or or put your head in the toilet [TS]

  or whatever Oscars next to their lockers [TS]

  lockers never not gonna be next year [TS]

  locker they're always going to have [TS]

  three or four friends there and they're [TS]

  always gonna have a little relaxation [TS]

  time by treating you like less than a [TS]

  person and that's writing that happens [TS]

  every day and we thought we I mean much [TS]

  I've had that Shirin and so have I and I [TS]

  guess I guess the the part of the [TS]

  conversation that's interesting to me is [TS]

  like throughout the whole second half of [TS]

  the 20th century we have had a lot of [TS]

  social engineering projects [TS]

  that we that we introduced into the [TS]

  school's right we're trying to solve [TS]

  problems as adults [TS]

  we're trying to solve problems in our [TS]

  adulthood by going not back to our own [TS]

  childhoods but into the schools of of [TS]

  kids now and saying like okay well there [TS]

  are a lot of racial problems in America [TS]

  and so we're going to put kids on buses [TS]

  and send them all the way across town [TS]

  and we're going to we're going to enter [TS]

  we're going to forcibly integrate the [TS]

  schools and in so doing we are going to [TS]

  solve the racial problems in America and [TS]

  it's an example of adults not knowing [TS]

  how to solve that problem in the adult [TS]

  world and not being willing to make [TS]

  those changes in their own lives but [TS]

  instead deciding that what we're going [TS]

  to do is go into the schools and we're [TS]

  going to we're going to force the kids [TS]

  to resolve the issue by this kind of [TS]

  social engineer I exactly was gonna say [TS]

  it's a kind of benevolent benevolent [TS]

  like you're trying to do so but you're [TS]

  doing it from a good place [TS]

  yeah and it's a beautiful it's a [TS]

  beautiful idea the kids you know the [TS]

  thing that's so hard for me to accept [TS]

  somebody likes to think of himself as [TS]

  trying to do the right thing and being [TS]

  principled is I know that if I say [TS]

  something to someone not just my kid [TS]

  that anybody if I say that something is [TS]

  important or I say that I believe [TS]

  something I could see that hundreds even [TS]

  seriously hundreds of times i could say [TS]

  brush your teeth before bed but you know [TS]

  what if I don't brush my teeth every [TS]

  night before bed and have them see that [TS]

  that's cognitive dissonance and yeah it [TS]

  hurts my credibility and more [TS]

  importantly show you that's not how the [TS]

  world works [TS]

  so like when I was in in Tallahassee [TS]

  know this is nothing its people Florida [TS]

  please relax but I don't think I can't [TS]

  think of a single person i interacted [TS]

  with who would have thought themselves [TS]

  on the face of it as a racist and yet i [TS]

  can tell you including me when I moved [TS]

  to san francisco i think i told you this [TS]

  but it was maybe two months before [TS]

  something that was a weird niggling [TS]

  thing on the honors kind of the corner [TS]

  of my consciousness became very clear [TS]

  which is I went Wow [TS]

  there are so many not white people in [TS]

  positions of power here everyday a kid [TS]

  that grows up in our town sees asian [TS]

  people who are in power they see black [TS]

  people who are in power you have a black [TS]

  boss and I'm just here to tell you that [TS]

  that was not something you saw every day [TS]

  in places where i lived in ohio and [TS]

  florida you see it but it wouldn't it [TS]

  would seem weird enough that you didn't [TS]

  make you change your vision of things [TS]

  but i did not see the point of the point [TS]

  I'm going on about is that like that [TS]

  stuff will not seem real until you [TS]

  actually see it when people just keep [TS]

  telling you that that's the thing that [TS]

  should happen over and over like in the [TS]

  petri dish of an elementary school [TS]

  it's really different from spinning [TS]

  noticing what people are pulling each [TS]

  other as much as they used to [TS]

  I'm finding a different way to work this [TS]

  out i have a black boss and she's [TS]

  actually pretty great right [TS]

  whatever what you see everyday is what [TS]

  I'm saying at the those projects i mean [TS]

  like integration was a culture wide [TS]

  project we were trying we were trying [TS]

  two hundred different things you know [TS]

  affirmative action and and a bra and [TS]

  well and busing and affirmative action i [TS]

  think was a very positive like had very [TS]

  positive results i'm not sure about [TS]

  busting and and primarily it's because [TS]

  we added a tremendous layer of [TS]

  inconvenience to something that was [TS]

  already inconvenient which is getting [TS]

  your kid up and going to school busing [TS]

  was bussing nothing was an unsuccessful [TS]

  hack because it is successful hack right [TS]

  within encoding is something that takes [TS]

  an annoying problem and solves it [TS]

  potentially in elegant way that was a [TS]

  very in elegant solution that basically [TS]

  made it clearer than ever will be that [TS]

  you're going to be fucking super [TS]

  inconvenience by this but may that there [TS]

  is a basic inequality that we can't fix [TS]

  and so we have to reset where the pieces [TS]

  on the board and have you agree that [TS]

  that's making it better [TS]

  even they are fixing your basic problem [TS]

  and and so that the I mean it in the in [TS]

  the long term we have so much less [TS]

  bullying now in the culture than we did [TS]

  even when we lose internet stuff done [TS]

  you sure about that i mean the thing [TS]

  about the admin internet bullying is [TS]

  that the internet is just a giant [TS]

  bullying cesspool I mean I'm a 45 year [TS]

  old man i would go on the internet every [TS]

  day and feel in one way or another [TS]

  bullied and a lot of the bullying is [TS]

  from people who would describe [TS]

  themselves as primarily as victims you [TS]

  know like it's the it's the oldest trick [TS]

  in the book to get on the internet and [TS]

  say I am a victim of this oppressive [TS]

  culture and so I am so mad that i'm [TS]

  going to be that i'm going to be hateful [TS]

  to everybody i encounter today at and [TS]

  that is and that is and that's like I [TS]

  the argument against that is that are [TS]

  you miss Andres now I mean are you like [TS]

  that the the idea that the idea that [TS]

  this woman presented which is that he [TS]

  had a perceived imbalance of power is [TS]

  equal to an actual imbalance of power [TS]

  and so a person can be a person who [TS]

  perceived themselves to be in a position [TS]

  of less power [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  it might as well be that that person is [TS]

  in a position of less power and I was [TS]

  like listening to a presentation I was [TS]

  like no that is in that is exactly wrong [TS]

  like just to perceive yourself to have [TS]

  less power is not anything just because [TS]

  you feel it doesn't mean it's real [TS]

  in the words of Radiohead and and I [TS]

  think the internet is full of people who [TS]

  are like I perceive myself to be a [TS]

  victim of everything and so you know [TS]

  every time I go on the internet I'm on [TS]

  I'm on a daily crusade to lecture [TS]

  everybody hey I have an encounter with [TS]

  to go from place to place [TS]

  to go from place to place [TS]

  place to place just pedantically [TS]

  schooling fools right and left and it's [TS]

  just like oh my god you're just [TS]

  spreading you are spreading evil but is [TS]

  like people are going to remember that [TS]

  lesson you were meant to be teaching [TS]

  they're going to remember that you're [TS]

  kind of an unpleasant person [TS]

  yeah and so the internet is a giant is [TS]

  just a giant Hudson that's an ugly place [TS]

  now it's not a place I want to be but I [TS]

  think ultimately is there less bullying [TS]

  in the world in our world [TS]

  yes is there less bullying is there less [TS]

  bullying in seattle than there is in [TS]

  oklahoma city probably is there less [TS]

  bullying in oklahoma city than there is [TS]

  in lagos yes in almost certainly like [TS]

  his bullying still rife in in the the [TS]

  outskirts neighborhoods in Shanghai yeah [TS]

  i bet it is because I i guess this is [TS]

  one of the this is one of the big [TS]

  questions of of like secularism is that [TS]

  if we establish that we are members of [TS]

  the animal kingdom which the secular [TS]

  half of the of the world you know has [TS]

  been a lot of time trying to say like we [TS]

  are part of the system we are animals we [TS]

  are not God beings we are not separate [TS]

  from our environment we are not we are [TS]

  we are not significantly different from [TS]

  animals that we can afford to rule over [TS]

  the world without consequence but the [TS]

  flip side of that is nowhere in the [TS]

  animal kingdom is anything fair and we [TS]

  are looking at ourselves as [TS]

  simultaneously members of this of this [TS]

  natural system and also imposing upon [TS]

  ourselves [TS]

  incredibly unnatural thought [TS]

  technologies and that is if that's [TS]

  fascinating and wonderful because a lot [TS]

  of those thought technologies that take [TS]

  us out of the animal kingdom have [TS]

  improved our lot in life and are [TS]

  improving the world but now but i would [TS]

  suggest never presume that any of those [TS]

  things are real or that any of those [TS]

  things reflect reality they are they are [TS]

  experiments they are attempts and so [TS]

  like when you talk about it like and [TS]

  wanting to try on and I idea like a [TS]

  jacket yeah so we're we're trying to [TS]

  eliminate bullying even though bullying [TS]

  is in the animal kingdom in the natural [TS]

  world [TS]

  bullying is one of the foundational [TS]

  methods like every single animal family [TS]

  uses precisely bullying as a way of [TS]

  organizing itself bigger animals squash [TS]

  little animals the two you know the the [TS]

  litter of kittens establishes their [TS]

  their their dominance chain like pigs do [TS]

  it [TS]

  chickens do it it's a pecking order [TS]

  I mean everything we all of our language [TS]

  for that stuff comes from watching [TS]

  animals do it and every animal doesn't [TS]

  so if our end game is to eliminate [TS]

  bullying what is it mean it isn't just a [TS]

  small little inconvenience that we are [TS]

  that we should be ashamed of and like [TS]

  that that should that we should continue [TS]

  to be outraged and appalled by we should [TS]

  be able to look at it and say this is [TS]

  one of the fundamental principles of [TS]

  animal life and we are trying to [TS]

  dispense with it we are trying to change [TS]

  and evolve so that bullying is not the [TS]

  way that we order our systems [TS]

  but it is absolutely in everything and [TS]

  so to change it is not just a question [TS]

  of like go into the schools and put [TS]

  posters on the walls and indoctrinated [TS]

  the kids so that they don't think of [TS]

  bullying anymore it's not a small thing [TS]

  the book kids are seeing bullying in [TS]

  every walk of life and in every in every [TS]

  aspect of human culture and so if if [TS]

  this is our project [TS]

  I just wish that we could talk about it [TS]

  in this bigger sense of like okay if [TS]

  we're gonna if we're going to evolve [TS]

  into the Grays like like I'm all for it [TS]

  let's go but if you're but what are you [TS]

  going to replace bullying with because [TS]

  if you go into the offices of Vogue [TS]

  magazine i guarantee you there's [TS]

  bullying at every desk if you go into [TS]

  the west wing of the White House [TS]

  bullying is everywhere and it's encoded [TS]

  and the more white collar you make it [TS]

  the more the the subtler it gets but [TS]

  subtle bullying is fucking bullying so [TS]

  so it just it feels a little bit like [TS]

  the the posters on the walls of the [TS]

  schools and the and the attention that [TS]

  were paying two kids to eradicate what [TS]

  we think is this you know this bullying [TS]

  is another to me and in a way up [TS]

  potential busing idea which is just like [TS]

  we're going to go into the schools and [TS]

  we we can't fix this problem in our own [TS]

  culture [TS]

  we're not even capable of seeing it for [TS]

  what it is but we don't but we all have [TS]

  painful memories of being bullied as a [TS]

  kid and so we're going to go down into [TS]

  the schools and create a kind of [TS]

  fahrenheit 451 scenario where at where [TS]

  no one is able to say what things are no [TS]

  one is able to acknowledge reality and [TS]

  kids are going to be 19 years old and [TS]

  they're going to come out of these [TS]

  schools and be like bullying is bad i [TS]

  have never bullied anyone nor have I [TS]

  ever been bullied [TS]

  but it's all you know it's all just a I [TS]

  like a soup of lives mi i think i could [TS]

  get what you're saying but I just have [TS]

  one angle on it though which is that i'm [TS]

  reminded of the times I've gone and talk [TS]

  to companies and I always have an easy [TS]

  laugh when I talk about the signs the [TS]

  people leave by the coffee machine you [TS]

  know where the signs I have your mom [TS]

  doesn't work here and how there's I [TS]

  think they have to affect those have are [TS]

  pretty consistent i am I don't wanna [TS]

  argue whether bullying is snatching [TS]

  animal thing maybe it is i think we [TS]

  might be using that word a little [TS]

  differently but what I will say is its [TS]

  when you put up a sign in the in the [TS]

  kitchen arm to no one in particular a [TS]

  shame song is Yeah right right where you [TS]

  like you're an asshole because you're [TS]

  not doing this thing that I'm telling [TS]

  you we all agreed we should do which may [TS]

  or may not be true you know the fact is [TS]

  if you worry about the cleanliness of [TS]

  the kitchen it means a lot to you to [TS]

  keep it clean you know what fair enough [TS]

  you're probably aa above the 50 [TS]

  percentile of people who clean the [TS]

  kitchen i'll even give you that one [TS]

  the problem is when you put that sign up [TS]

  the the effects that you have that I [TS]

  think i mighta shown and not talk about [TS]

  some other shows but I never showed you [TS]

  a lot of dogs poop in a park near our [TS]

  house and at one point somebody had gone [TS]

  up and put signs around the entire [TS]

  perimeter of the reservoir with noting [TS]

  how many piles of poop they had counted [TS]

  in the last month the people had left [TS]

  their it's sort of like this workplace [TS]

  has this noise without a poop [TS]

  yeah but think about that for a second [TS]

  and I just as I is my mind at my age [TS]

  goes through what the actual effect of [TS]

  that will be icy several things [TS]

  happening and i think this is related to [TS]

  what you're talking about [TS]

  there's on the one hand there's going to [TS]

  be a whole bunch of people like a ton of [TS]

  people who don't have dogs who could [TS]

  like what a stupid sign what's wrong [TS]

  with these people [TS]

  I don't like poop either but what a dumb [TS]

  sign this is gonna be a lot of people [TS]

  with dogs who pick up their dogs poop [TS]

  we're going hey why are you yelling at [TS]

  me i'm already doing that if anything [TS]

  that's gonna make them less you know [TS]

  they're not you that this is how [TS]

  enforcement works you know a [TS]

  reinforcement that's gonna make them [TS]

  probably more likely to not want to do [TS]

  because they don't feel applauded for [TS]

  doing what's been done they feel yelled [TS]

  at by this by this warrior who's gonna [TS]

  tell them that that's what they should [TS]

  be doing and you know what the most [TS]

  importantly arguably i will bet you x 2 [TS]

  don't [TS]

  that's that 11 out of 13 people who do [TS]

  let their dog shit anywhere are not [TS]

  going to change a single thing as a [TS]

  result of seeing that side it will have [TS]

  that arrow will have fallen very far [TS]

  away from its target that the sign that [TS]

  you put in the kitchen that ends up [TS]

  yelling at ninety percent of the office [TS]

  is not going to change the one or two [TS]

  people who are doing that thing so that [TS]

  i think is part of the problems when you [TS]

  start out and I you know again I don't [TS]

  care [TS]

  everything works in different ways with [TS]

  different people but I think it's [TS]

  important to remember that when you set [TS]

  something up with anybody set something [TS]

  up as an adversarial relationship i [TS]

  understand why we do that it's very [TS]

  natural especially if you feel like [TS]

  you've been aggrieved by something or [TS]

  you know something's happening you very [TS]

  understanding to to come out of the box [TS]

  mad about that the thing I think it's [TS]

  important to remember to take bullying [TS]

  for example there's going to be three [TS]

  maybe three large amounts 33 mainly [TS]

  three kinds of kids there's a kind of [TS]

  kids that are not bullying anybody on [TS]

  any conceivable level there are the kind [TS]

  of kids who are unrepentant fucking [TS]

  bullies that hope for home assign is [TS]

  going to change absolutely nothing right [TS]

  but the one that those signs might reach [TS]

  the people that i'm most interested in [TS]

  this very very quiet little percentage [TS]

  of people who didn't know that there is [TS]

  something they might think about [TS]

  differently and maybe despite being [TS]

  fucking yelled at every turn about how [TS]

  to act they discovered there's a way I [TS]

  could change my behavior a little bit [TS]

  they would make the world a little bit [TS]

  better and it doesn't make me less [TS]

  strong to do that that's the people i [TS]

  admire and that's why i always think if [TS]

  you go into something yelling you're [TS]

  going to have a smaller and smaller [TS]

  amount of that super interesting third [TS]

  group who sometimes can be very [TS]

  influential people but if you come out [TS]

  of box like yelling at everybody and [TS]

  having a system having a program in mind [TS]

  and basically explain to everybody what [TS]

  the problem is before they had an [TS]

  opportunity to understand it you always [TS]

  lose the chance of the subtle people who [TS]

  might have changed what they do because [TS]

  now they feel like they're being [TS]

  victimized by being yelled at or you [TS]

  know what i mean i think that when you [TS]

  think about although it doesn't lead to [TS]

  anything getting that much better it [TS]

  just leads to us becoming more callous [TS]

  about thinking who else is wrong about [TS]

  this [TS]

  yeah this is what I'm saying how think [TS]

  about all the much more interesting ways [TS]

  of reaching that subtle group of people [TS]

  then putting up [TS]

  science in the kitchen yeah basically [TS]

  Stalinist signs all around instructing [TS]

  everyone on how to live and I and I [TS]

  guess I guess what it boils down to to [TS]

  me is that the endgame for for everybody [TS]

  for any school of thought if you ask [TS]

  somebody to to describe their plan like [TS]

  why do they have a certain school of [TS]

  thought they will give you a utopian [TS]

  answer right the endgame is someday in [TS]

  the future when everyone realizes the [TS]

  truth of this premise and if everybody [TS]

  realizes the truth of this premise then [TS]

  we will be living in a world of peace [TS]

  and harmony and done it often comes down [TS]

  to one phrase on both either any of 50 [TS]

  different sides you can almost always in [TS]

  America today boil it down to one [TS]

  statement which is I want people to be [TS]

  free and it's amazing how often that [TS]

  line could be subsumed in the rhetoric [TS]

  of pretty much anybody and it kind of [TS]

  makes sense but there's nobody there's [TS]

  no George Lincoln Rockwell there's not [TS]

  that many people out there that actually [TS]

  want America to be fascist even people [TS]

  you know the people who are saying i [TS]

  don't want to spend money for more than [TS]

  highways and defense or whatever like if [TS]

  you're also a hardcore libertarian boys [TS]

  principal zero of that is I want people [TS]

  to be free [TS]

  I want me to be free right and the panel [TS]

  who want to say well let's have [TS]

  scholarships for people they want people [TS]

  to be free because they're saying in the [TS]

  past this is not worked out these people [TS]

  have not even had a chance to come to [TS]

  the table that's gonna help them be free [TS]

  but there's nobody there almost nobody [TS]

  out there who thinks that what they're [TS]

  doing is making people less free and the [TS]

  and the and so the so the problem is [TS]

  that every one of those scenarios [TS]

  involves wanting everybody to be free [TS]

  and all we have to do to accomplish that [TS]

  is just that everyone not be free in [TS]

  this one small way which is that we all [TS]

  agree on cheese [TS]

  and and if everybody would just get in [TS]

  line about this one thing that we could [TS]

  all be free and ultimately that is why [TS]

  every single ideology is true because if [TS]

  we all agreed on anything then yes we [TS]

  would be in we would be able to create a [TS]

  socialist workers paradise or a [TS]

  libertarian free-market paradise or a [TS]

  you know uh a white homeland and I De [TS]

  Niro it gets so narrow it's like a no-no [TS]

  engineer would take somebody seriously [TS]

  if they said we want to this jet will [TS]

  fly super far as long as it doesn't have [TS]

  to carry a bunch of heavy fuel [TS]

  yeah right exactly know how we need to [TS]

  re-engineer these other points of this [TS]

  is not going to change one factor about [TS]

  anything without changing everything [TS]

  else about the entire project so with [TS]

  bullying the premise seems to be we need [TS]

  to eradicate bullying when really the [TS]

  question is how do you make a good world [TS]

  where there's always going to be two [TS]

  percent bullies like yes you could make [TS]

  a perfect world if you eliminated [TS]

  bullies but there are always going to be [TS]

  two percent bullies and so how do you [TS]

  minimize the creation of bullies and the [TS]

  impact of their behavior [TS]

  yeah and and at what happens with [TS]

  bullying is that it is that there's the [TS]

  bully is the bad guy right but there are [TS]

  the five friends that maybe would be [TS]

  maybe would be off making projects with [TS]

  construction paper but somehow if when [TS]

  bullying is ok those five friends jump [TS]

  on the bandwagon every and die exactly [TS]

  it [TS]

  it's what you're talking about you [TS]

  wanted you want to get those three [TS]

  friends that maybe follow the guy if [TS]

  he's bullying but also would follow [TS]

  somebody if they were dancing and you [TS]

  want to say like don't follow the below [TS]

  fully follow the dancer like that's the [TS]

  that's the culture that we're trying to [TS]

  create what is that culture created by [TS]

  putting posters up in the in the coffee [TS]

  room [TS]

  no it's not apple seeds i don't think [TS]

  people almost ever see themselves in [TS]

  those things make it basically selfish [TS]

  the American thing part of our the [TS]

  American experiment that I don't think [TS]

  we see ourselves in signs [TS]

  no we see otherwise the other people who [TS]

  are rightly or wrongly being accused of [TS]

  making things worse for us [TS]

  yeah if the sign said if the sign said [TS]

  it has been four days since someone [TS]

  named Merlin smoked a cigar in this park [TS]

  you would look at that sign and you'd be [TS]

  like huh that's interesting i wonder how [TS]

  many Merlin's there are smoking cigars [TS]

  in this part of hazardous get your dicks [TS]

  those dicks as you let up a cigar in the [TS]

  park [TS]

  no we never see ourselves in science [TS]

  because that's not that because the [TS]

  challenge of creating a world of human [TS]

  beings is to not think about a utopia [TS]

  the challenge is to is to treat every [TS]

  situation individually and to do the [TS]

  difficult work of you know if if we if [TS]

  everybody practice no child left behind [TS]

  the schools would be producing geniuses [TS]

  but the problem is it's a utopian idea [TS]

  it doesn't work because you can't apply [TS]

  it you can't have one textbook that [TS]

  works in every school in the country you [TS]

  can't have one premise about bullying [TS]

  every single kid is different and that [TS]

  is impossible it's impossibly hard to [TS]

  create a uniform culture and this I this [TS]

  attempt to impose like a super structure [TS]

  and say everybody is the same we are all [TS]

  the end this is true of us all in in the [TS]

  pursuit of a utopia a utopian end where [TS]

  if we can we can eradicate this then we [TS]

  will all be living in the light and it's [TS]

  just it's it's the it's the way in which [TS]

  every ideology is exactly the same as [TS]

  every other one and they all are you [TS]

  know they all crash on the rocks as soon [TS]

  as they encounter one person who doesn't [TS]

  want to go to doesn't want to go along [TS]

  and I am that person [TS]

  I do not want to go and I and so I'm [TS]

  getting off the internet [TS]

  yeah or or I'm you know or I'm gonna [TS]

  definitely curate the topics of any [TS]

  public discussion i have a little bit [TS]

  better so that I am exist your farewell [TS]

  to the Troops so that I am dealing [TS]

  exclusively with caps and twerking and [TS]

  and a sympathetic judge and a [TS]

  sympathetic fellow and not at all with [TS]

  that you know with whatever the the the [TS]

  hot-button issues are right now where [TS]

  people are trying to you know work bored [TS]

  where social engineering where that [TS]

  where the diamond tip of social [TS]

  engineering is is etching its groove in [TS]

  our in our cultural moment you know I [TS]

  don't believe that it works unless it's [TS]

  super train in which case it absolutely [TS]

  works but has to work function [TS]

  it's not like an optional the [TS]

  traditional third anniversary gift is [TS]

  leather series so I was thinking of [TS]

  getting some chaps I'm a gun belt you [TS]

  might look good with a gun belt several [TS]

  times i have been in a situation where [TS]

  there have been chaps available to me [TS]

  really yeah classic and at whole havin [TS]

  ass exposing chaps they're one of the [TS]

  great moments for me and a thrift store [TS]

  was in this in the little cowboy town of [TS]

  Monroe Washington I was dating a girl at [TS]

  the time who was very like a she was a [TS]

  well she was a Firedancer that was her [TS]

  job a a naked Firedancer to be specific [TS]

  Wow and she had a lot of tattoos and she [TS]

  was very exotic and beautiful girl and I [TS]

  was dating her at the time and I was in [TS]

  monroe and i found in a thrift store [TS]

  they're a pair of white fringed chaps in [TS]

  a petite size so brother and I bought [TS]

  them for her [TS]

  and they were spectacular oh my any fit [TS]

  if they fit her perfect she wanted to [TS]

  wear them and she did want to wear them [TS]

  oh my god and we want to honor my friend [TS]

  I really did and I you know I won't say [TS]

  anymore about it except that it was a it [TS]

  was a great man how many of those are [TS]

  there even in the world and that i [TS]

  should find them and that they should [TS]

  fit and that she would like them and I [TS]

  so kinky Cinderella yeah it really was [TS]

  it was the glass slipper of our [TS]

  relationship and so after that I was [TS]

  like well maybe I should have some [TS]

  chance haha and I I think you hit a new [TS]

  journey vika I and I am and I've had [TS]

  several chaps come my way and the [TS]

  problem is that what that um that when i [TS]

  wear chaps it is just like I am [TS]

  reanimating the cow [TS]

  [Music] [TS]