Roderick on the Line

Ep. 125: "All the Great Shows!"


  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  sponsored by Squarespace the only one [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  hello hey John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

  good we should you should have been [TS]

  listening to born slippy I'm totally [TS]

  pumped now are you pumped that my dog [TS]

  Marte in the manger bar in the door was [TS]

  helping at all [TS]

  she was a lipstick boys you want a [TS]

  beautiful boy and deer bones that help [TS]

  you stretched i did my usual warm-up [TS]

  routine [TS]

  yeah yeah was that uh which is that I [TS]

  listen to elliott smith's waltz number [TS]

  three on the way in [TS]

  haha oh and was a again reduced to tears [TS]

  wats number three I know what's number [TS]

  two including the core all right now [TS]

  it's no balls number two its oh my god [TS]

  he has lots of Watts's but i keep I keep [TS]

  I keep upgrading it to the third waltz [TS]

  because I feel like it's really too [TS]

  waltzes you're talking about never [TS]

  getting now that's right huh [TS]

  we've talked about this song many times [TS]

  it's AI don't know why that song levels [TS]

  me I keep plumbing its depths you know [TS]

  my interpretation of so what happened [TS]

  was I you know I borrowed a car from a [TS]

  friend several years ago which I'm still [TS]

  driving and in the car was a mixtape CB [TS]

  that she made be many years before that [TS]

  and I never figured out where the CD [TS]

  changer was so I just have this one [TS]

  mixtape in there standing there the [TS]

  whole time it's been there the whole [TS]

  time while about four years that I've [TS]

  had the car and the second song on the [TS]

  mixtape is terrible and you could the [TS]

  first song on the mixtape is waltz [TS]

  number two and then you could you could [TS]

  tell that she wanted to like get you [TS]

  know get back in a happy mood or so you [TS]

  like the second song on the tape is like [TS]

  and now we're gonna like pop it up for [TS]

  the second song is I won't even mention [TS]

  it's so terrible that i have never [TS]

  listened to any of the rest of the [TS]

  mixtape [TS]

  i just i turn on get in the car i turn [TS]

  on the stereo i listen to waltz number [TS]

  two [TS]

  sometimes I listen to it again and then [TS]

  I turn the stereo back off [TS]

  I've been doing that for years but you [TS]

  never been curious to see what or had [TS]

  accidentally go on you never found [TS]

  yourself playing the rest of the tape [TS]

  because the second song is so bad as [TS]

  soon as the opening because sometimes [TS]

  I'll get so lost in a reverie about [TS]

  Walt's number two that I will I will [TS]

  forget what's coming and then the then [TS]

  the neck that's opening chords of the [TS]

  next song like the cords offend me [TS]

  before the vocals even come in and out [TS]

  because I'm in such a state of Walt's [TS]

  number two that that will that I hear [TS]

  that get that next guitar and I'm just [TS]

  like die a thousand deaths and I lunch [TS]

  for the thing so i have no idea maybe [TS]

  the rest of the mixtape is amazing maybe [TS]

  there are other songs to discover and [TS]

  plum their depths but i'll never know [TS]

  because I also a month for up even [TS]

  though i've had this car for years i'm [TS]

  unfamiliar enough with the stereo that I [TS]

  don't know how to skip to the next song [TS]

  but so I've spent all this time inside [TS]

  of this one song interpreting it and [TS]

  living it and you know my sense of this [TS]

  song is that he's writing to his step [TS]

  father and mother [TS]

  yeah it is what I get and it's also kind [TS]

  of a suicide note you know the the [TS]

  bridges here today here today expecting [TS]

  to stay on and on and on [TS]

  huh I'm tired tired so tired and it's [TS]

  just like uh looking out on a substitute [TS]

  seen oh alright but the problem is that [TS]

  the I get in the car in the morning and [TS]

  I head out into the world like all right [TS]

  don't cat chat here we go check it i got [TS]

  a lot of shit to do today and I listen [TS]

  to this one three and a half minutes [TS]

  long song and then i'm kinda useless [TS]

  baby for the rest of the day [TS]

  mhm yes because we're going to change [TS]

  well because i feel i see i don't know [TS]

  I don't know great the car borrowed now [TS]

  for about four years ok alright and also [TS]

  this is not how you listen to music [TS]

  no no no but but but so the footer but [TS]

  additionally the problem is that I feel [TS]

  like as I've spent all this time with [TS]

  this one song I feel like it is a [TS]

  perfect work who like he has [TS]

  accomplished in this song a kind of [TS]

  perfection in making a thing and so it [TS]

  also sends me out when I but when i get [TS]

  to my eventual destination I parked the [TS]

  car and I go what's the point of [TS]

  anything you know [TS]

  yeah like that's how you know it's [TS]

  working yeah he really made a thing [TS]

  there and that's really you know like [TS]

  it's like it's like it's like a perfect [TS]

  definition of weariness like you know [TS]

  even when it starts it starts out with [TS]

  that like the waltz easiest ones that [TS]

  don't chat is the walks easiest waltz [TS]

  you've ever heard and then it's like its [TS]

  size its way into the strum chords [TS]

  getting getting getting and every you [TS]

  know it all comes in and then the [TS]

  goddamn cellos at the barre and he's got [TS]

  what what you can only presume if you [TS]

  imagine songs are recorded if you do if [TS]

  you imagine as I do that there at the [TS]

  band that makes the song is all in a [TS]

  room a lot Pet Sounds and they're [TS]

  sitting there the whole time weight and [TS]

  yeah there's like six jealous jealous [TS]

  just sitting and they and they really [TS]

  gonna want to pack in the whole [TS]

  performance in that like it just source [TS]

  through the whole tune they're just [TS]

  sitting there and then wow wow oh god [TS]

  dammit now that Taoism man i think [TS]

  that's a pretty perfect song I really [TS]

  are you but so that's I mean I gotta get [TS]

  a new routine [TS]

  I mean you know some people get up to [TS]

  get on the stairmaster they get up and [TS]

  they designed some apps in the morning [TS]

  round we should do something going on a [TS]

  workflow they get a workflow who and my [TS]

  workflow is just like wake up getting a [TS]

  borrowed car to listen to the most [TS]

  depressing perfect song and then try and [TS]

  make my way to the end of the day [TS]

  they're gonna send me down elliott smith [TS]

  all because I can't even tell you what [TS]

  my favorite elliott smith song is [TS]

  because it's one of those things where [TS]

  it's it's almost like the Beatles [TS]

  on which of which he was obviously a fan [TS]

  we're like I find myself going oh no no [TS]

  uh you know I say yes [TS]

  oh oh no you know hi my name feta means [TS]

  the moonlight phone [TS]

  I mean like oh my god how did have the [TS]

  guy do it and that yet little line at [TS]

  that don't don't don't [TS]

  boom it's just a little under played and [TS]

  like it's so low-key but you know that [TS]

  had set the tone know if you really want [TS]

  to get up and make an appt you might [TS]

  need something might put on maybe a midi [TS]

  one of my least favorite [TS]

  uh listen songs and oh i see a metal [TS]

  that make him make you mad get up and [TS]

  make an appt yeah i got apps to make [TS]

  sometimes you gotta get mad at least you [TS]

  know it was though I've heard amity like [TS]

  in on a jukebox in a bar it would be [TS]

  okay it's just it's such an uneven [TS]

  number which record that's on I think [TS]

  it's on that record and it's like it's [TS]

  such a sore thumb on that record it's [TS]

  that record so you know it just becomes [TS]

  evident comes blaring out and it always [TS]

  would throw me off and I was watching [TS]

  probably he's probably it was [TS]

  experiencing the same thing that the [TS]

  gallant made this mixtape was [TS]

  experiencing which is like well I wrote [TS]

  the perfect I've got the perfect song on [TS]

  here already [TS]

  the rest of this Merton mixtape should [TS]

  just be this song over and over [TS]

  I can't do that the rest of this album [TS]

  should just be this one song that is [TS]

  that that is the perfect expression of [TS]

  growing up in a household with the [TS]

  detached mother and an abusive [TS]

  stepfather right so instead I should be [TS]

  I should make a song that like gets [TS]

  everybody excited i used to do something [TS]

  you know kind of peculiar which is if I [TS]

  would record a record under a tape and I [TS]

  had room at the end sometimes i do a [TS]

  little mix to take up the space but [TS]

  toward the end of the cassette area I [TS]

  would just take whatever my favorite [TS]

  song was and and play it on repeat on [TS]

  the CD player to play out so I would [TS]

  listen to like minor threats out-of-step [TS]

  like like like 11 times in a row and we [TS]

  just want to get sick of it i was just [TS]

  it's just like a perfect blast of a song [TS]

  yeah there's there there are there like [TS]

  20 seconds snippets of my bloody [TS]

  valentine that I could just listen to [TS]

  that 20 seconds on repeat for eternity [TS]

  but I wouldn't get anything done because [TS]

  he also just disappear into the music [TS]

  yeah just be out there swelling around [TS]

  here going to shout your starboard album [TS]

  you're going to really need to get back [TS]

  in the shed starbal star bolt stern look [TS]

  at me are both County this episode of [TS]

  rock on the line is sponsored by our [TS]

  very good friends over [TS]

  we're at Squarespace you know [TS]

  Squarespace you should you're the only [TS]

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  supertrain at checkout our thanks to [TS]

  squarespace for supporting Roderick [TS]

  online we could not do without you I've [TS]

  been feeling recently that all of the [TS]

  musical stylings of the seventies have [TS]

  like the seventies folk scene have [TS]

  really been explored enough now I don't [TS]

  want to hear it anymore [TS]

  I keep turning on the radio or hearing [TS]

  ambient music in stores and it's just [TS]

  like it's just exploring that weird [TS]

  little seventies thing that I seventies [TS]

  folk thing that I feel like we're we [TS]

  kind of had enough of even then we [TS]

  rejected at the time and I'm just done [TS]

  I don't want I don't want to hear [TS]

  another acoustic guitar maybe not for [TS]

  the rest of my life [TS]

  uh-huh I've had that feeling that [TS]

  something will come on it'll really [TS]

  booing me [TS]

  I flew out of Boston a few days ago and [TS]

  went to get some food for got on the [TS]

  plane because you know what kind of [TS]

  animal eats on a plane and so I went [TS]

  into the legal seafood bar which also [TS]

  serves food it which is great you know [TS]

  they got a hell of a lobster roll there [TS]

  it's like $75 and as I walked in they [TS]

  were playing September girls by big star [TS]

  em and I felt so fucking old because [TS]

  that was that song was old when I got [TS]

  into [TS]

  yes but somebody knows to play that over [TS]

  some satellite station in the in the in [TS]

  the 830am mix he at an airport but then [TS]

  Jackie blue came on which I have her in [TS]

  a really long time that's what good to [TS]

  that sounds kinda weird it's got a weird [TS]

  space to it looks like their seventies [TS]

  cocaine songs that create this really [TS]

  strange environment that I can't quite [TS]

  put my finger on [TS]

  I don't understand it either you can't [TS]

  go back and recapture that people have [TS]

  been trying for decades brother Louie [TS]

  like there's these certain songs from [TS]

  the seventies that like have such a [TS]

  weird space and it's all it's all sound [TS]

  it's sonically weird and like in both [TS]

  comfortable and envelop ingrained also [TS]

  like kind of emotionally cold but in a [TS]

  way that feels like home huh [TS]

  I don't understand I mean you know [TS]

  obviously Baker Street being the [TS]

  ultimate I'm gonna say I'm gonna toss in [TS]

  Baker Street and it's it's a psychic [TS]

  partner i'm going to say you're the cat [TS]

  or or possibly time as the judges both [TS]

  of those and I'm going to throw in one [TS]

  of the calcaneus cocaine's of all time [TS]

  I'm gonna throw in sentimental lady by [TS]

  Bob Welch great tune for the same album [TS]

  magic ok Gnaeus cocaine song of all time [TS]

  ebony eyes give me that one [TS]

  the video with Valerie Bertinelli you [TS]

  know what else uhhhh a devil woman [TS]

  oh oh yes he's just a devil woman within [TS]

  the online [TS]

  oh my god how did they do what you think [TS]

  is the cocaine shit it's got its got to [TS]

  be cocaine it's going to be cocaine and [TS]

  tube tube amplifiers at but they were [TS]

  like they were they were chasing i made [TS]

  a combination of like am radio song [TS]

  writing chops and all the time in the [TS]

  world with the best equipment and I mean [TS]

  but honestly if if I knew I would I [TS]

  would be trying to approximate it and [TS]

  everybody else would too and you know of [TS]

  course like we haven't even said like [TS]

  all of that Fleetwood Mac weird shit [TS]

  and Fleetwood Mac actually took that [TS]

  into the eighties I feel like we've [TS]

  argued about christine mcvie before I [TS]

  you know I i just want to have a [TS]

  different point of view but I i enjoy i [TS]

  enjoy her contribution to other people's [TS]

  songs a superlight yeah but i feel like [TS]

  the christine mcvie hits on the early [TS]

  eighties fleetwood mac stuff is an [TS]

  evolution of the seventies cocaine [TS]

  coldness em but like like you know what [TS]

  I mean like it's it's music that never [TS]

  breaks a sweat no one in any of those [TS]

  tunes is sweating at all huh [TS]

  they're just like so cool [TS]

  I don't I mean and I feel like I feel [TS]

  like that but like maybe Cat Stevens got [TS]

  the ball rolling a little bit on that I [TS]

  there's something like you know it's [TS]

  some is the pigment guy what's that [TS]

  guy's name yeah that's all oh what's his [TS]

  name of the Bob Bob firing by moonlight [TS]

  Bob moon [TS]

  I think pink 00 Bob pink yeah that [TS]

  Volkswagen song [TS]

  yeah books working guy yeah Nick break [TS]

  Bob box white box objects minh it's a [TS]

  even yeah it's fine like there is a part [TS]

  of this must just because i was a little [TS]

  kid knows a lonely kid and listen to [TS]

  non-stop am radio when I wasn't watching [TS]

  TV or reading encyclopedia brown [TS]

  I was listening am radio like all the [TS]

  time and snoopy of the Red Baron after [TS]

  that there are none of the century had a [TS]

  45 then I'm sure he'll likely able to [TS]

  Scott and then that probably got our [TS]

  early interest in mia in the German war [TS]

  efforts [TS]

  yeah sure I mean that's how i got into [TS]

  world war one was the ballad of snoopy [TS]

  in the Red Baron I was like I got to [TS]

  know more about this story tell me more [TS]

  about the Snoopy is interesting but [TS]

  there's all kinds of songs like that to [TS]

  this day I have such a specific [TS]

  recollection of like standing in a [TS]

  certain place being like exactly a [TS]

  certain age I know what season it was I [TS]

  know what like month that was when that [TS]

  came out and I don't know that some of [TS]

  them are just really fixed in time as [TS]

  the scrap love [TS]

  oh yeah but all that captain and [TS]

  Tennille stuff like I feel like my when [TS]

  I hear captain and Tennille that was the [TS]

  dawn of my sexual awakening [TS]

  oh it's nothing like the proto sexual [TS]

  awakening [TS]

  yeah let me just knew you wanted [TS]

  something they were seeing in there know [TS]

  what it was I didn't I didn't I didn't [TS]

  know what a-what lady parts looked like [TS]

  even but I knew that to neal had was [TS]

  expressing a thing that I wanted to you [TS]

  know in a way that Abba was too polished [TS]

  and there were too many people there [TS]

  Camille and you know the captain had [TS]

  that hat and the dark glasses you [TS]

  weren't sure what he was doing today but [TS]

  yeah if my name were Darryl dragon I [TS]

  would not call myself captain haha you [TS]

  at least call yourself captain dragon [TS]

  no-brainer my god fucking dragon but [TS]

  nothing on the cap just call me captain [TS]

  yeah because I got Michael I got a hat I [TS]

  got a cab mr. dragons my father [TS]

  yeah yeah I don't know I don't know it's [TS]

  at you right now I mean how do you [TS]

  recreate that that sound in that [TS]

  environment and you know maybe part of [TS]

  it was there was maybe a little more [TS]

  money around like you say that's been a [TS]

  little more time in the studio yeah but [TS]

  I but there's others something to gain [TS]

  on the board and I think I think you've [TS]

  hit it which is that there is an [TS]

  emptiness to those tracks where you [TS]

  listen to it and you can hear every [TS]

  element it doesn't feel empty it feels [TS]

  impossibly full alright but there's [TS]

  space their space between the things [TS]

  things come in [TS]

  it's a little bit of a holdover from the [TS]

  the restrictions of the four-track where [TS]

  there still was like a lot of spookiness [TS]

  in the room [TS]

  yeah and then still like okay the chorus [TS]

  or you know okay here the guitar part is [TS]

  coming in and we're going to put this [TS]

  guitar part on the lead vocal channel [TS]

  because we don't want to waste the tape [TS]

  space or something you know like there's [TS]

  it doesn't have the excess of later [TS]

  where it's just like well we got 24 [TS]

  tracks so let's just have 24 instruments [TS]

  all playing at one [TS]

  it's there's still a little bit of that [TS]

  like okay and then the acoustic guitar [TS]

  comes in but then when it goes away it [TS]

  goes away and it isn't replaced by [TS]

  something it's just like everything does [TS]

  a little bit of work and then goes I [TS]

  don't know I admire it so much it is so [TS]

  evocative I said almost on rumors the [TS]

  never known back again and down yes I [TS]

  mean and I'm like that's the just think [TS]

  it's because a great creepy a lot of the [TS]

  songs are our little creepy [TS]

  yeah close harmonies a Lindsey [TS]

  Buckingham is intrinsically creepy you [TS]

  know but he and Brady spits he and [TS]

  christine mcvie are playing on [TS]

  sentimental lady mm you know that you [TS]

  hear that impeccable guitar sound here [TS]

  uh I mean that's Christine McVie because [TS]

  you know he used to be when he was doing [TS]

  even more cocaine i think i don't know i [TS]

  think it's cocaine use it just went up [TS]

  and up and up but he has to be an [TS]

  employee with mac for I think a couple [TS]

  years who did [TS]

  oh I'm sorry Bob Welch oh oh icic yeah [TS]

  he was in fleetwood mac in the interval [TS]

  into regular he was in the the [TS]

  transitional Fleetwood Mac he might have [TS]

  maybe guy I used to know this by heart [TS]

  here I think I know something is not [TS]

  google me I'm trying to do that he [TS]

  wasn't on the rumors but I think he [TS]

  might have been on the rebooted [TS]

  Fleetwood Mac record let's go look at [TS]

  our friend wikipedia right boys a real [TS]

  creepy guy smoking a big cigar in this [TS]

  video's yeah yeah yeah he died what well [TS]

  you know that happens [TS]

  yeah a lot of a lot of people have died [TS]

  when you put it that way you know what I [TS]

  mean John Lennon died [TS]

  yeah died right thoughts ice pick [TS]

  I said head yet I boom yeah I well she [TS]

  is 71 invited to join there's friction [TS]

  in the band believe it or not there was [TS]

  friction in fleetwood mac antfee where [TS]

  it was before [TS]

  there weren't even any girls in the [TS]

  and already fiction maybe he didn't have [TS]

  anyone to get on the side maybe that [TS]

  maybe was Dylan john mcvie that's why [TS]

  Christine got involved she was like i'm [TS]

  joined this band now what a terrible [TS]

  idea [TS]

  you don't have tonight like having sex [TS]

  with other people in your band who are [TS]

  married to other people in your band [TS]

  what a terrible idea [TS]

  it's a pretty terrible idea i have been [TS]

  in bands with gals that i have found [TS]

  attractive even and that's got me was [TS]

  that was it is a very handsome woman [TS]

  yeah I've always drawn the line I just [TS]

  feel like you know it's bad it's bad [TS]

  what's better is I mean it's dead yet [TS]

  business its work like what it's what a [TS]

  terrible idea although there are all [TS]

  kinds of situations where it's like I [TS]

  don't like that guitar part that you're [TS]

  playing I don't think you know and then [TS]

  the other person says like it's not it's [TS]

  my guitar parts not your place to say [TS]

  and if you could just say like let's [TS]

  fuck that would hear a lot of times [TS]

  resolved the issue if you could have [TS]

  done it with Mike Squires just think how [TS]

  much how much attention you could have [TS]

  releases just blown off the tension and [TS]

  then it's just like you know what it [TS]

  turns out i love your guitar parts are [TS]

  thanks I'm learning here let's see em in [TS]

  1972 six months after the release of [TS]

  future games the band released Fleetwood [TS]

  Mac release bare trees which featured [TS]

  watches song sentimental lady and [TS]

  original version of sentimental lady [TS]

  what on a Fleetwood Mac wrecker [TS]

  home this is why you dig into the deep [TS]

  cuts yeah i want to go i just am [TS]

  listening to this one song over and over [TS]

  five years so I mean I i was thinking [TS]

  about it it kind of goes against my hole [TS]

  like I'm not a fan of things a premise [TS]

  better stopping and then but then it [TS]

  goes all the way through to the other [TS]

  side of the i'm not a fan of things [TS]

  premise to like oh sure i'm a fan of [TS]

  things sometimes this is why i'm not a [TS]

  fan of things because if I really like [TS]

  something i'll just look I'll just enjoy [TS]

  it alone for five years darling that's [TS]

  not the way to really absorb a lot of [TS]

  culture you know I met Dan Harmon the [TS]

  other day I wait I know this Dan Harmon [TS]

  is the guy from the TV show that's right [TS]

  ok and and I and I made the classic I've [TS]

  only done this a few times in my life [TS]

  but but but one whatever i do it blows [TS]

  up in my face I said there's some [TS]

  there's some guys they were like you got [TS]

  to meet Dan Harmon i was like i don't i [TS]

  don't really care to meet Dan Harmon I [TS]

  don't know what do you get it was gonna [TS]

  say you know well so let me tell you [TS]

  what I said look they're like no no you [TS]

  guys got to meet each other's is really [TS]

  important like you're like all right [TS]

  ok so find out me Dan Harmon so I walk [TS]

  in and dan harmon's in there and he's [TS]

  you know kept pacing the room he [TS]

  obviously he gives up the energy of [TS]

  being like a lion right he's in charge [TS]

  of the room he's the reason that the [TS]

  room was built to house Dan Harmon for [TS]

  this short amount of time and and I and [TS]

  I like that energy i appreciate that [TS]

  energy here's a you know here's a like [TS]

  there's a Greybeard hoop kind of feels [TS]

  like every room in the world was built [TS]

  to house him every room he ever enters [TS]

  and and you know my interlocutors take [TS]

  me over and say like John rock Dan [TS]

  Harmon Harmon John Rother can I put out [TS]

  my hand and I say you're ready for this [TS]

  god I say hi nice to meet you big fan [TS]

  because because I don't know why I had a [TS]

  I don't have you ever seen this program [TS]

  no okay see that's that's what I was [TS]

  worried about ya i have one time [TS]

  Jonathan Coulton said you really gotta [TS]

  see this episode of community which is [TS]

  like the Christmas episode and it they [TS]

  do it as a musical and he showed it to [TS]

  me and I thought it was very charming [TS]

  but that is the only one of any of his [TS]

  things I have seen so I walking out now [TS]

  technically in the usual sense of the [TS]

  phrase a big fan but I really and he [TS]

  turned somebody makes you watch your [TS]

  show but maybe what I I could have said [TS]

  that I John Roberts somebody made me [TS]

  watch one of your shows one time I just [TS]

  gotta face [TS]

  I don't know why that one time that the [TS]

  the hilarious 11 time 10-15 years ago [TS]

  Shawn Nelson and I were standing there [TS]

  and a guy comes up and says hi at a bar [TS]

  and I mistook him for someone else and I [TS]

  was like oh hey man great to see you hey [TS]

  great show the other night and the guy [TS]

  looked at me and was like what show i [TS]

  don't go and in the moment that he and [TS]

  he was a guitar player an entertainer [TS]

  but it was just a different guy than I [TS]

  thought and in the moment that he's [TS]

  saying that I'm realizing a that I had [TS]

  it wrong and he's like what show and I [TS]

  said no all the great shows on now all [TS]

  the great shows that you have played big [TS]

  big fan and so Sean still like well [TS]

  every once in a while you know say to me [TS]

  like all the crates shows the kind of [TS]

  like as a bit of a shutdown but anyway [TS]

  so I say to Dan Harmon hey hi nice to [TS]

  meet you big fan and i don't i'm [TS]

  thinking that he's at this thing and [TS]

  that everybody's a big fan of his and [TS]

  that this is just going to be some [TS]

  social lubricant where I go [TS]

  hi big fan and he's gonna go hi thanks a [TS]

  lot and it's going to be it's another [TS]

  thing is you didn't go wrong in a sense [TS]

  that that is a really good generic thing [TS]

  to say to somebody where you know it's [TS]

  going to be a 15-second interaction [TS]

  because it takes a lot of the pressure [TS]

  off except that he shakes my hand looks [TS]

  at me and goes oh yeah fan of what [TS]

  and I went uh arm you know some of your [TS]

  old shows and I don't get out [TS]

  I'm like some of your old shows and she [TS]

  says which one time and I and he's i [TS]

  don't know whether he senses that he's [TS]

  got me on the ropes something here for [TS]

  you guys to watch you swing he's trying [TS]

  to kill me now I mean I just I walked [TS]

  into the Lions Den covered in fucking [TS]

  hamburger and I'm like uh and then I'm I [TS]

  don't even remember the name of his show [TS]

  that I did see one episode of and I'm [TS]

  I'm like uh a community and he goes oh [TS]

  you mean the one that's back on the air [TS]

  now mm he's not gonna let you off [TS]

  it's not letting me go and everybody in [TS]

  the room is like like watching a lion [TS]

  take apart a lamb and I'm sitting there [TS]

  like still still clinging to this the to [TS]

  the to the to the little tail lights on [TS]

  the train of big fan that I see [TS]

  disappearing into the message there goes [TS]

  the Train big fan big fan train and I'm [TS]

  standing there and I you know and i and [TS]

  part of me wants to be like you got me i [TS]

  have never seen anything you've done [TS]

  I've heard your name i guess i read it [TS]

  wired once people talk about you like [TS]

  you are important and matter and i just [TS]

  wanted to be part of that for a second [TS]

  really just time to go for me now and he [TS]

  and he just he presses the he presses in [TS]

  and so I am trying to convert and you [TS]

  know Joel McHale is a long winter span [TS]

  that's cool and that's the star of the [TS]

  case for our community and he and I have [TS]

  had many many good times he's come to [TS]

  many long winter shows we've like we do [TS]

  a lot of we ran into each other once at [TS]

  legoland in san diego special did you [TS]

  decide to pivot to Joel Joel McHale and [TS]

  I have a lot of good history and so I [TS]

  decided to try to pivot to [TS]

  haha this is not gonna be good [TS]

  except as i'm picking it's like you've [TS]

  brought in a different coupon from a [TS]

  different part that's like giving like [TS]

  well actually I know a couple of people [TS]

  on your show as i'm doing it i can't [TS]

  remember joel mchale's name he says [TS]

  crude because joel mchale has a name [TS]

  kind of like Nick Drake he's got one of [TS]

  those one of those my friend market [TS]

  calls it the snap to grid name where it [TS]

  sounds like lots of other names gonna go [TS]

  you know what I Joel Grey is running [TS]

  jumping over a john mccrae that guy with [TS]

  the hair that Joe Joe mar kale and you [TS]

  get your sledging it that's so I'm like [TS]

  you know big and he's like oh yeah [TS]

  whatever though the show the back in [TS]

  there and I'm like oh well yeah I mean [TS]

  I'm come kind of pretty good friends [TS]

  with the couple of people on the show [TS]

  and he's like who [TS]

  oh god and i can't remember his name and [TS]

  I'm like rm10 and so Gillian Jacobs what [TS]

  I've met her a couple of times in LA and [TS]

  I fell in immediately in love with her [TS]

  did I ever tell you that story now we [TS]

  were at the Chateau Marmont and in at [TS]

  first glance i felt like oh here's a [TS]

  little blonde actress like I'm not that [TS]

  I and others [TS]

  I'm not predisposed to be interested in [TS]

  her but we're standing and looking out [TS]

  over the balcony and LA and and she says [TS]

  see that building over there and I was [TS]

  like yeah [TS]

  and kind of distracted not even paying [TS]

  much attention and she says that [TS]

  building was built by the guy who built [TS]

  the original garden of Allah which is [TS]

  where Groucho Marx met Joan Didion in [TS]

  the piano and I was just like I kind of [TS]

  slow take a look over at her like you [TS]

  are blowing my mind right now and then [TS]

  she starts talking about the tile in the [TS]

  bathroom of the of this building that [TS]

  once that was torn down many years ago [TS]

  and over the course of 20 minutes she [TS]

  reveals that she knows all of the [TS]

  architecture all of the historical [TS]

  architecture of La that it's just one of [TS]

  the many fascinating little l elements [TS]

  aspects of her of her like expansive [TS]

  intelligence that's not fair and I was [TS]

  like so I'm sitting there all of a [TS]

  sudden I'm like well I I'm in love with [TS]

  you are you do you have a boyfriend are [TS]

  you are you famous actress of some kind [TS]

  of you know and have and because I what [TS]

  I had never seen her show I was not [TS]

  aware that she I didn't know that she [TS]

  was a like famous I was just like you [TS]

  you are extraordinary did you study [TS]

  architecture can we talk more about [TS]

  architecture i would like to hear more [TS]

  about la through your eyes little guide [TS]

  guide to the world for me and she just [TS]

  you know she's so she became kind of [TS]

  this light in the sky for me like oh my [TS]

  god there are people like Gillian Jacobs [TS]

  out there in the world dinner that are [TS]

  like comedic actresses on popular [TS]

  television shows and also interested in [TS]

  esoteric architecture stories so I'm a [TS]

  little late in life to learn that that's [TS]

  pretty painful it's tipped it was [TS]

  excruciating and I'm sure that she's [TS]

  dating some a guy that has expensive [TS]

  sunglasses you know it's just like la [TS]

  like you go to LA like [TS]

  but in any case i'm looking at Dan [TS]

  Harmon and I'm like I know two people on [TS]

  your show that i have lots of stories [TS]

  about that we can talk about and I can't [TS]

  remember either one of their names and [TS]

  but I didn't remember to not say that i [TS]

  know some people on it show and so that [TS]

  he's like who [TS]

  yeah and i'm like some actors that are [TS]

  on your show and I met you know my you [TS]

  can just you can smell the diesel oil [TS]

  burning out of my ears and he there are [TS]

  other people in the room he could be [TS]

  talking to he's telling you though I [TS]

  think you're gonna you're gonna be the [TS]

  sacrificial lamb literally he has he's [TS]

  he plants both feet leans in and is just [TS]

  like tell me more about that about the [TS]

  actors on my shows that you know and i'm [TS]

  like I brr-brr are rare and i'm not even [TS]

  I'm not nervous [TS]

  I don't care about Dan Harmon in the [TS]

  sense of like oh my god I'm talking to [TS]

  my hero [TS]

  i'm nervous because i am just fucking [TS]

  shoving feet in my mouth [TS]

  I'm shoving like actors feet that I've [TS]

  met a couple of times [TS]

  whats in my mouth and eventually we [TS]

  arrived at a place where Dan Harmon just [TS]

  stops talking and I stopped talking and [TS]

  we stand there and he's looking at me [TS]

  and I'm looking at him and then I [TS]

  remember joel mchale's name and I go [TS]

  Joel Joel McHale as it is it to prove [TS]

  now you finally proven you know because [TS]

  you remember the name of a TV star [TS]

  jumped bail is the guy that I know uh [TS]

  and it probably ended right there right [TS]

  well you just just stood and I stood we [TS]

  stared and I and I finally I mean this [TS]

  whole thing only lasted [TS]

  I can only imagine it was not very long [TS]

  but it seemed like a thousand years and [TS]

  I finally was just like okay all right [TS]

  nice meeting you you know just sort of [TS]

  like turn and go and it was instructive [TS]

  that it was instructive for me that this [TS]

  that the that I do a lot of that social [TS]

  lubricant of like all the great shows [TS]

  big fan [TS]

  hi great to see you and i'm not a big [TS]

  fan it's not great to see them and i [TS]

  don't i don't know I i picked up those [TS]

  habits from my dad probably has a way of [TS]

  just like moving through a crowd and [TS]

  meeting a lot of people and not [TS]

  remembering their names you know like [TS]

  counselor [TS]

  it's a version of all of that but boy [TS]

  every once in a while it's just like [TS]

  stepping in a bear trap when you when [TS]

  you when you encounter someone who is [TS]

  prepared to turn around and go oh your [TS]

  big fan [TS]

  won't you tell me more about that and I [TS]

  don't know why I don't know how he [TS]

  smelled it or if or if he didn't if he [TS]

  just like who I mean maybe maybe [TS]

  initially he really wanted to hear me [TS]

  praise one of his shows [TS]

  I doubt it I don't know pretty pretty [TS]

  gross you you accidentally became pretty [TS]

  LA I did I did I because isn't that I [TS]

  mean that's pretty acceptable their [TS]

  right to go i letting you know love you [TS]

  when you do the thing in the thing that [TS]

  was that's totally like showbiz manager [TS]

  greaseball kind of talk like I was [TS]

  basically I was basically at cause [TS]

  playing a lawyer big fan i worked with a [TS]

  couple of people on your show you know [TS]

  it's like I kinda you know I I handled [TS]

  the divorce of one of your gardeners or [TS]

  whatever I I like gum [TS]

  I'm Dan Harmon but I i sometimes just [TS]

  you know for a little bit of a diversion [TS]

  sometimes i like to fuck with PR people [TS]

  who don't know you [TS]

  do a similar thing we were there like a [TS]

  you know I represent the CEO of plastic [TS]

  on and know that you'd be really in a [TS]

  big big big big fan of your work from [TS]

  way back i love you have a chance to [TS]

  have an interview with the CEO tomorrow [TS]

  you get those kinds of things a lot and [TS]

  I usually just you know hit ! in google [TS]

  and marketing spam but sometimes i [TS]

  responded i'll say wow that sounds [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  what's your uh what's your second [TS]

  favorite thing I've ever done [TS]

  let's talk a little bit about like all [TS]

  the great stuff I do uh oh my god the [TS]

  way you help people with your website [TS]

  you haven't updated in four years [TS]

  that's oh my god that's amazing the way [TS]

  you help people [TS]

  yeah that's one of the way I've had [TS]

  things like that happens is never done [TS]

  anything like that poorly that that guy [TS]

  that demands a predator always told he's [TS]

  absolutely absolutely predator and he [TS]

  was picking his teeth with my shin bones [TS]

  yeah and after that and you know [TS]

  unfortunately for me it didn't happen on [TS]

  stage we were just in a green room [TS]

  somewhere and they were like three or [TS]

  four people standing around all of whom [TS]

  you know went over to see if there were [TS]

  any strawberries on the craft services [TS]

  table because they couldn't handle the [TS]

  that at the fucking smell of blood in [TS]

  the air as I'm standing there like hey [TS]

  you know what I got a lot of words uh [TS]

  for not talking about anything right now [TS]

  that I could use those words because I [TS]

  don't know what I because I'm because i [TS]

  started because i can remember words [TS]

  terra I should help man i got a nice to [TS]

  meet you [TS]

  boom and then gone and look for some [TS]

  strawberries myself well you know if I [TS]

  bet life is hard for him because I mean [TS]

  if we are a little more charitable about [TS]

  it maybe it's that he really doesn't [TS]

  obviously he doesn't like that kind of [TS]

  phony baloney think maybe he's not just [TS]

  naturally nothing like an asshole or [TS]

  something but I can you imagine like [TS]

  trying to keep yourself in an [TS]

  environment like that where you actually [TS]

  are like you're like you're like me [TS]

  you're someone who doesn't like having [TS]

  conversations like that and only doesn't [TS]

  seem like you sail like when you meet [TS]

  the Queen or we make sure you say Your [TS]

  Majesty versus your highness or whatever [TS]

  you gotta learn the right way to do it [TS]

  so don't piss anybody off but it's not [TS]

  fun to live like that it's not fun to [TS]

  act like that's a basis for [TS]

  relationships or business so I mean you [TS]

  know I wonder if he has a reputation for [TS]

  being like hard to work with or [TS]

  something who knows I mean everybody [TS]

  seems to admire him and I certainly [TS]

  admire the way that he despatched me but [TS]

  I not enough that i'm going to ever go [TS]

  watch a television show that was shown [TS]

  but still are not here not here is not [TS]

  anybody's right but but but that was uh [TS]

  yeah that was really that was another [TS]

  one of the all the great shows moments [TS]

  where I feel like I can be a little bit [TS]

  more little bit more careful about show [TS]

  business but you know it's it it is akin [TS]

  to show busy but really it is like [TS]

  really it's like regional politics you [TS]

  know what I mean like it's it's really a [TS]

  way of of making your way through a [TS]

  fundraiser [TS]

  um I think of it as being a little bit [TS]

  like maybe not magic trick but an [TS]

  illusion [TS]

  we're like for example like if you're [TS]

  one of those phony baloney psychics and [TS]

  you learn how to do cold readings and [TS]

  the thing is like a lot of people who [TS]

  would be amazed what somebody who's good [TS]

  at cold readings can pull off especially [TS]

  if you believe in the cold reading but [TS]

  somebody is good at cold reading [TS]

  and read you really quickly and then [TS]

  pull out certain factors that you're [TS]

  very likely to agree with early on they [TS]

  end up giving more information to you [TS]

  and then pretty soon its own seems like [TS]

  they know your whole life and that i [TS]

  think in some ways when you're trying to [TS]

  survive a reason regional politics [TS]

  that's kind of what it is if you say [TS]

  something that you know most people that [TS]

  this person looks like agree with you're [TS]

  already on the right track [TS]

  yeah we can like lead the conversation [TS]

  something we're going to give you enough [TS]

  information that you can pay them a [TS]

  compliment before going in refreshing [TS]

  your drink [TS]

  yeah I'm pretty good at that [TS]

  normally if this was a bad situation was [TS]

  reversed if Dan Harmon had come up to me [TS]

  and said oh hey big fan i might have [TS]

  said oh really of what I i do that that [TS]

  same thing when I feel like I'm being [TS]

  showbiz uh I mean but you can also do it [TS]

  in and I do it I hopefully in a [TS]

  non-stick way of going if i get that [TS]

  somebody's actually you know saying [TS]

  something really nice about which thing [TS]

  is it this thing or that thing all [TS]

  thanks that that's that's a conversation [TS]

  you can have for sure he's making i'm [TS]

  guessing game [TS]

  well and the thing is if I had said I [TS]

  mean I have I have Dan Harmon's a [TS]

  Wikipedia page here if I had said you [TS]

  are really ready for next time i was a [TS]

  big fan of your animated adult swim [TS]

  animated television series Rick and [TS]

  Morty with Justin roline bend and Rob [TS]

  trabe prob [TS]

  mhm he would have been a he would have [TS]

  been like Oh Rick and Morty was she born [TS]

  on january third was in 1973 right super [TS]

  big fan of the way your ear you have a [TS]

  beard sometimes and us just to scruff I [TS]

  don't be thinking of a different Dan [TS]

  Harmon are you the one who co-founded [TS]

  the television network / website channel [TS]

  101 was that yeah where you [TS]

  emmy-nominated part about things I [TS]

  listened to an eponymous podcast called [TS]

  harmontown is that you google glass you [TS]

  even the real fire at Google glass it by [TS]

  it only had google fucking glass [TS]

  anyway that's my little oh you know in [TS]

  addition to Dan Harmon i also met a guy [TS]

  another dan oh yeah i saw photo that [TS]

  yeah I met Dan Benjamin yeah how'd that [TS]

  go [TS]

  a guy you know I wasn't really familiar [TS]

  with his work foo [TS]

  but you're not you're not a big podcast [TS]

  listener but i really liked him [TS]

  what a nice guy everybody said that he [TS]

  was a that he was a kitten killer and a [TS]

  Pollock Austin I but he's a really nice [TS]

  guy is very tidy is very clean [TS]

  he's a clean old man I'm glad you got to [TS]

  meet and that seems like that seems like [TS]

  one of those you know Elvis and Nixon [TS]

  kind of things [TS]

  it was really it was really great you [TS]

  know and that despite his fame tidiness [TS]

  he will he will be hugged me multiple [TS]

  times [TS]

  Wow and I am famously untidy so very [TS]

  very huggable though who knows what he [TS]

  picked up for me it was basically like [TS]

  licking a hotel room remote haha tip to [TS]

  hug me in the middle of the day I'm glad [TS]

  you got it doesn't really nice picture [TS]

  and you get things here for your finger [TS]

  splint in the patient finger splint yeah [TS]

  yeah you got him [TS]

  that's a that that's so how was the guy [TS]

  asked how the how the event was I mean [TS]

  people this sounds like church for a lot [TS]

  of people they love this XOXO event XOXO [TS]

  is a great event you know I go to a lot [TS]

  of things now that are somewhat similar [TS]

  to this I guess I had an expectation [TS]

  that it would be then the new genre of [TS]

  the unconference yeah right it's like Oh [TS]

  a conference right okay an unconference [TS]

  conference it's like a full of people [TS]

  who make computer maths and they're [TS]

  talking about it to each other [TS]

  ok I'll go to this shirt but when I got [TS]

  there and went to the events and met the [TS]

  people that attend the conference I was [TS]

  like extremely pleasantly surprised with [TS]

  food smart people it's it's an example [TS]

  of a thing where where where some people [TS]

  put together at an event where all of [TS]

  the it felt like a room full of people [TS]

  that all knowing that our live all [TS]

  around the world and all know each other [TS]

  on the internet better than they know [TS]

  the people that better than they know [TS]

  their actual friends and people that [TS]

  live in their town and this was that [TS]

  this was the one of a couple times a [TS]

  year where they all got to be together [TS]

  and really be like really express in [TS]

  meatspace the family that they they feel [TS]

  like they are right and it was great you [TS]

  know it was a place where a where [TS]

  everybody got it so i was i was very [TS]

  pleased very pleased to meet all those [TS]

  people and have those exchanges [TS]

  yeah it's a there's something special [TS]

  about that getting to be around people [TS]

  and I think it's a very intentional [TS]

  conference I mean I think being somewhat [TS]

  famously have a system for trying to get [TS]

  to even come there you've got I mean the [TS]

  heart of it is you've got to really want [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah you couldn't there were it was like [TS]

  an amazing we dish bag free tech [TS]

  conference [TS]

  yeah i think it's hard not that not that [TS]

  they won't be able to do this but it's [TS]

  it's hard to maintain that because it's [TS]

  expensive to do I mean I'm trying to [TS]

  avoid talking about South by Southwest [TS]

  but you know everybody's been two things [TS]

  where you go and then you go for years [TS]

  later and you're like wow there's a lot [TS]

  of girls with almost no clothes giving [TS]

  away cups of energy drinks here who any [TS]

  and and then you know it's funny the why [TS]

  you were describing the the Dan Harmon [TS]

  affair by the way he did the co-created [TS]

  the television pilot for heat vision and [TS]

  Jack which i recommend you see if you [TS]

  haven't seen it that right heat vision [TS]

  and Jack I feel like this encounter with [TS]

  an arm is all the Dan Harmon I can take [TS]

  for a while I don't know [TS]

  I'm totally sympathetic if I go watch [TS]

  one of these shows now and I'm like this [TS]

  is incredible [TS]

  then I'm really going to be bummed that [TS]

  i actually am a fan of his and yeah so [TS]

  I'm gonna I'm gonna take a year maybe a [TS]

  year off from Dan Harmon I think it's [TS]

  gonna be a Harman sabbatical get home [TS]

  RRR my magical the thing that I don't [TS]

  know I I don't render this as much as I [TS]

  used to [TS]

  because I don't I try to avoid things [TS]

  where this is SOP for the thing I hate [TS]

  is the kind of energy so you got the [TS]

  interaction with Dan Harmon that was [TS]

  awkward but what's the alternative is [TS]

  you go and you have this this discussion [TS]

  with somebody who's trying to suss out [TS]

  whether you're worth their time [TS]

  yeah and they're trying to roughly [TS]

  estimate how much money you make [TS]

  i think is what it comes down to for a [TS]

  lobbyist bags well I'm what but the [TS]

  thing about the thing about Dan Harmon [TS]

  is I had just gotten off the stage and [TS]

  giving a presentation that i was proud [TS]

  of and he was the next presenter but it [TS]

  was clear as I was being introduced to [TS]

  him that he had not seen my presentation [TS]

  and so what would have been an effect [TS]

  what would have been a good introduction [TS]

  was that the people say hey Dan Harmon [TS]

  this is john Roderick and Dan Harmon [TS]

  goes oh hey man i really liked your talk [TS]

  that you just gave but I was I was I [TS]

  think throwing a little off balance [TS]

  because that would have been nice but [TS]

  instead he's just gave me like shark [TS]

  eyes like he had just entered the [TS]

  building so then it was kind of on like [TS]

  not whatever would have introduced me [TS]

  not there wouldn't have been a better [TS]

  introduction then that you just saw my [TS]

  presentation right and since he and he [TS]

  was looking at me definitely like well I [TS]

  don't have not heard your name nor have [TS]

  i seen your username on credits of [TS]

  things that I like so it's on you buddy [TS]

  and that was yeah i'm not going to [TS]

  revisit this now they're hiring an issue [TS]

  anymore enough set but uh I did feel uh [TS]

  I did feel very much like I I [TS]

  that I didn't actually at this [TS]

  conference a tremendous sympathy for you [TS]

  because at the XOXO conference you would [TS]

  if you had attended like you are God to [TS]

  those people and everybody there with [TS]

  the exception of Dan Harmon knew me and [TS]

  they knew me because of this podcast but [TS]

  they knew me because I was a person [TS]

  proximate to Merlin Mann and Merlin Mann [TS]

  is the center of all things up and it [TS]

  and it was it was very interesting [TS]

  because it because as I walked around [TS]

  the conference there was a lot of like [TS]

  strange sort of fight club energy where [TS]

  where I was unaware that I was sometimes [TS]

  Brad Pitt because I was just walking [TS]

  around and people would I walked past a [TS]

  group of total strangers and they were [TS]

  all nod in unison ago [TS]

  good afternoon sir although they want to [TS]

  get on your bad side or they just wanted [TS]

  to acknowledge hello [TS]

  we know you like you know if you want [TS]

  clean food i suggest you not get the [TS]

  clam chowder there was like a little a [TS]

  little sense of like we know to stay [TS]

  away but we also want to you know show [TS]

  our respect like people would give me [TS]

  little salutes and stuff that's nice [TS]

  it was very nice but what I realized and [TS]

  someone someone pointed this out and [TS]

  gave me like a great kind of insight [TS]

  into my my place in these situations [TS]

  through these scenarios which was that [TS]

  Merlin Mann is the god of all things and [TS]

  Merlin Mann is occasionally differential [TS]

  to you John Roderick so if Merlin defers [TS]

  to you sometimes it means that you have [TS]

  there there's a transference where the [TS]

  where you know like the king of the [TS]

  kingmaker but yeah the King occasionally [TS]

  takes your counsel and so you must be [TS]

  like a real [TS]

  mandarin and I you know and I that was [TS]

  very insightful of this person to point [TS]

  out but also like very true and if you [TS]

  had been at the XOXO conference so this [TS]

  is where the sympathy for you comes from [TS]

  if you had been there you would have had [TS]

  to have stood next to an exit possibly [TS]

  an elevator shaft with an elaborate [TS]

  system of ropes and pulleys where you [TS]

  could make your escape at any moment [TS]

  because if you stopped moving for a [TS]

  second you would have been mobbed my [TS]

  that fires a very nice of you to [TS]

  something like but like but exactly the [TS]

  kind of people you want super smart [TS]

  people who are actually making things in [TS]

  their own worlds you know not mobbed by [TS]

  by dummies mobbed by people who really [TS]

  know you and love you but mobbed [TS]

  nonetheless and thanks for saying that [TS]

  that's I i think i actually uh how can I [TS]

  say this without sounding like a dark i [TS]

  enjoy that I mean I really i like mean [TS]

  people i like going places you said [TS]

  something one of our very early episodes [TS]

  i laughed when he said that you were an [TS]

  introvert i laughed and laughed and then [TS]

  you described an introvert deciding [TS]

  whether you're an introvert and [TS]

  extrovert or whatever based on how much [TS]

  energy you get from being around other [TS]

  people and I've realized that I'm [TS]

  extremely extroverted up to a point and [TS]

  then I kind of flip at a certain point [TS]

  and I get a little like okay I need to [TS]

  just go watch some cartoon network now [TS]

  you know it's burning gas right but you [TS]

  know you and I share a similar branding [TS]

  challenge which which on the face of it [TS]

  is is we [TS]

  well I hear people say this about both [TS]

  of us and I can't decide how i feel [TS]

  about it because on the one hand it's [TS]

  nice on the one hand it's it's kind of [TS]

  pretentious but they say you are so much [TS]

  nicer than I expected [TS]

  oh yeah I hear that a lot said about you [TS]

  all the time and I have heard people say [TS]

  that about me it's like what a quick you [TS]

  imagine like the jews did you think that [TS]

  I was gonna sit there and make jokes [TS]

  about your mom like what up what you [TS]

  might affect my favorite thing that I [TS]

  get a from this from people who listen [TS]

  to this podcast are the ones that come [TS]

  up in there like [TS]

  they want to they want to indicate to me [TS]

  that they know that a lot of what we [TS]

  talked about a lot of what i say on the [TS]

  podcast isn't true or you know it's it's [TS]

  it's I think it's hard sometimes the way [TS]

  i would put it I think it's hard to tell [TS]

  sometimes [TS]

  what were exaggerating about and how [TS]

  much right especially given that i never [TS]

  exaggerate [TS]

  absolutely and that everything i say is [TS]

  100-percent can read write that down [TS]

  did did I uh did I pee in a Mickey's big [TS]

  mouth bottle and give it to a sailor in [TS]

  a strip club girl named Lola was dancing [TS]

  yes could I have made that up what I've [TS]

  no to everything I say by definition do [TS]

  do i go out in my yard in the middle of [TS]

  the night in a bathrobe with a sword and [TS]

  talk two raccoons [TS]

  yes what part of the podcast seems [TS]

  untrue to you people is what I want to [TS]

  say to people who come up to me at [TS]

  conferences and say like wink wink when [TS]

  i first started listening to your [TS]

  podcast I didn't think it was AI thought [TS]

  it was I thought you were pulling our [TS]

  leg or something [TS]

  I'm like uh-huh you're not heated this [TS]

  is not that you are you are you are big [TS]

  fan of me right now but in the wrong [TS]

  here hit that you're saying the wrong [TS]

  thing to me the right thing to say is I [TS]

  thought that everything you said on the [TS]

  podcast was true and now that I meet you [TS]

  I see that it's only scratching the [TS]

  surface [TS]

  yeah the the thing that I encounter and [TS]

  I'm sense of really weird topic to talk [TS]

  about but the thing that I encountered [TS]

  that i have a funny relationship with is [TS]

  this and you must get this in spades [TS]

  because of this program is people who on [TS]

  the one hand you're already almost kind [TS]

  of like friends with like you know you [TS]

  maybe even have kind of conversations [TS]

  with them on twitter or something like [TS]

  you kind of know them but they also want [TS]

  to address you in particular i'm [TS]

  guessing kind of in character like they [TS]

  want to tell they want to come up and [TS]

  say you got there I got a small bag [TS]

  packed or something like that and [TS]

  sometimes it's hard to you know it's [TS]

  hard to to square that you know it like [TS]

  that that's the kind of like that's a [TS]

  high-five you just like yeah fraid so [TS]

  train yeah it's a beginning they get out [TS]

  if they want a sentence and talk about [TS]

  supertrain that's a different matter [TS]

  well I mean it's one of those things you [TS]

  you can only really say so much about it [TS]

  it's it's not going to change your your [TS]

  destiny [TS]

  that's that's something that you're just [TS]

  gonna have to deal with when it comes [TS]

  that's right that's right don't think [TS]

  you're gonna sweet-talk your way into [TS]

  this are usually talk the talk and [TS]

  ongoing like thing you did all the shows [TS]

  the clog the clause does with the clock [TS]

  will do [TS]

  yeah you know I think I just this is [TS]

  probably just know it's not just it's [TS]

  hugely apart of having you know family [TS]

  stuff to do but i just don't get away [TS]

  for things like that as much as I used [TS]

  to it it's expensive and you have to fly [TS]

  and I guess I've just gotten it's not [TS]

  that I don't like being around people i [TS]

  really do it's just that if if it's not [TS]

  paid for you know and to where I can [TS]

  sort of defend it as a work thing I just [TS]

  it's hard for me to make it to a lot of [TS]

  fun stuff like that because of the whole [TS]

  time i feel kind of guilty conscience [TS]

  about being there about spending the [TS]

  money about being away from home and [TS]

  things like that but uh I mean I still [TS]

  really enjoy things like that I just I [TS]

  just like started talking Boston was [TS]

  fantastic I mean it was it was great to [TS]

  go and meet people and have two people [TS]

  in the audience get a joke and stuff [TS]

  like that it's a it's a really nice [TS]

  feeling and you with two whole people in [TS]

  the audience got the got a joke [TS]

  sometimes it's hard to tell you know [TS]

  when you do a talk I just learned to [TS]

  really lower my expectations about what [TS]

  anybody in the audience will do its best [TS]

  to assume that they have no idea what [TS]

  you do i think you know i often make the [TS]

  opposite assumption which is that [TS]

  everyone in the room knows everything [TS]

  that I've ever done and was gonna get [TS]

  every reference that you reference that [TS]

  in there and what you're saying [TS]

  I mean up you know i do i think that [TS]

  there are probably every show idea where [TS]

  I walk out onstage and go all right [TS]

  listen up dickholes a few rules before I [TS]

  do another thing and one of them is shut [TS]

  up i'm sure there are people in the back [TS]

  of the room were like who the fuck is [TS]

  this guy but I don't care [TS]

  you know like my assumption is when I [TS]

  walk on the stage that it's you know I'm [TS]

  on the stage not you and I have to own [TS]

  the room completely to whatever to the [TS]

  best of my ability to walk up on stage [TS]

  and be like hi [TS]

  for those of you who don't know me I'm [TS]

  this guy had the most deadly line of all [TS]

  time [TS]

  let me tell you a little bit about [TS]

  myself yeah like you know my I have to [TS]

  approach walking onstage like high for [TS]

  those of you who don't know me I'm fuck [TS]

  you you're living under a rock [TS]

  how did you even get in here because [TS]

  because I just I feel like I feel like [TS]

  you're here already [TS]

  your weight is already on you're on the [TS]

  wrong part of your foot if you're if you [TS]

  walk onstage and are like I you know I [TS]

  let me explain a little bit about how I [TS]

  got here [TS]

  well I I did give up i did give a talk [TS]

  uh at the XOXO festival to a room full [TS]

  of people where it was I mean I I [TS]

  definitely felt like thirty percent of [TS]

  the room knew exactly who I was and [TS]

  thirty percent of the room didn't have [TS]

  any idea who I was and forty percent of [TS]

  the room was you know honor on a [TS]

  spectrum of sort of like oh yeah that [TS]

  might think I've heard of that guy what [TS]

  are you all the way to like yeah I I [TS]

  know exactly who he is and I don't like [TS]

  him or whatever but I can't do I can't [TS]

  do my style of presentation unless I [TS]

  assumed that I guess I assume that [TS]

  everybody's gonna like me i don't know i [TS]

  see now I think that's well I don't [TS]

  interrupt you but i think that is [TS]

  something most people are reluctant to [TS]

  believe and to put into effect because [TS]

  it seems self-involved it's critical [TS]

  it's coming like anything and whatever [TS]

  anybody i'm with his nervous about doing [TS]

  something going out getting on stage [TS]

  which is understandable everybody gets [TS]

  the jitters but I was like you know you [TS]

  just gotta remember a few things one is [TS]

  that the people you know whether it was [TS]

  by accident or on purpose have decided [TS]

  to be here they've decided to not do [TS]

  other stuff in order to be here they [TS]

  want to be entertained and they want to [TS]

  be entertained by you [TS]

  and the thing is you know they want you [TS]

  to succeed they want you to be [TS]

  entertaining if they don't want you to [TS]

  be entertaining you can't save it right [TS]

  those people off but there I think it [TS]

  always helps to remember that like you [TS]

  do have an advantage when you come out [TS]

  which is that people would like to like [TS]

  what you're doing and if you start from [TS]

  that point of view that's not [TS]

  self-involved that's just trying to be [TS]

  entertaining if you start by feeling [TS]

  like I've got to be defensive or Ivor [TS]

  I've got to like show my bona fides let [TS]

  me seemed kind of like you said like [TS]

  you're on the wrong foot [TS]

  yeah yeah and a particularly a tech [TS]

  conference where there are people uh you [TS]

  know I'll what when when when you came [TS]

  up and we did that presentation with our [TS]

  silly ass friends at the Seattle [TS]

  interactive conference when we met the [TS]

  digital profit [TS]

  digital profit [TS]

  where I'm at the digital profit that was [TS]

  a silly ass presentation that was [TS]

  somewhat derailed and and maybe [TS]

  completely derailed somewhat so forth [TS]

  derailed by one of our good friends at [TS]

  one of the participants went a little [TS]

  bit rogue I don't want the technically a [TS]

  mutiny [TS]

  I think I think any court maritime court [TS]

  would probably find him guilty of mutiny [TS]

  yeah i think it was a mutiny and I think [TS]

  it was you know partly nervousness and [TS]

  partly like love the microphone or [TS]

  whatever but so you and I definitely [TS]

  were on the stage I was scrambling to [TS]

  sell that the event and you were visibly [TS]

  discomforted was I yeah you you know you [TS]

  want to help people trying to figure out [TS]

  something useful to say yeah you you [TS]

  were given you there were a couple of [TS]

  times when i looked over at you and you [TS]

  looked at me and grimaced grimaced like [TS]

  you had just bitten into an onion is [TS]

  always the chance that you're gonna [TS]

  punch somebody in the face and I did not [TS]

  want that to happen on such a good about [TS]

  ticket sales but in any case after the [TS]

  after the fact i was a i was on the [TS]

  internet and I was scrolling through [TS]

  seattle interactive conference comments [TS]

  and there was a comment from someone who [TS]

  was at social media a webinar expert and [TS]

  she said I went to see this group of [TS]

  people talk about social networking or [TS]

  whatever the whatever the premise of our [TS]

  premises stated originally was something [TS]

  like hey you guys are are wackadoodle [TS]

  pseudo celebrities [TS]

  how are you dealing how are using social [TS]

  media to try and do your work right and [TS]

  so this uh this woman like online said [TS]

  that was a total waste of time it was [TS]

  just five or six guys up there who liked [TS]

  to hear them the sound of their own [TS]

  voices and they were just wasting my [TS]

  time I agree with all of that except the [TS]

  part about how is a waste of time and I [TS]

  ill-advisedly perhaps God commented to [TS]

  her and was like you [TS]

  our time must be extremely valuable for [TS]

  it to feel so wasted by that our of like [TS]

  completely harmless high jinks [TS]

  but but the sense that she had that she [TS]

  had come to this interactive conference [TS]

  to really learn to have some takeaways [TS]

  that she could take back to her social [TS]

  media business and convert that [TS]

  knowledge into more business or [TS]

  something I don't know I there I i had a [TS]

  sense when i got up at the XOXO [TS]

  conference that there might be people in [TS]

  the room who are really looking for new [TS]

  thought technologies that can help them [TS]

  be better app makers and that I was not [TS]

  going to be giving I was not gonna be [TS]

  providing any of that [TS]

  um I was going to be doing infotainment [TS]

  of a different sort but it turned out [TS]

  that the XOXO conference did not have a [TS]

  bunch of social media managers and it [TS]

  had people who were looking for new [TS]

  thought technologies of a different kind [TS]

  the kind that I have I'm kind of the not [TS]

  kind of an obsessive about walking in [TS]

  the room [TS]

  what mmm mean is it something you just [TS]

  do it [TS]

  I feel like I feel like I feel like [TS]

  starting a sentence by saying I'm kind [TS]

  of been taking the word kind of back and [TS]

  replacing it with obsessing is like [TS]

  there's a lot of week there's a lot of [TS]

  room ok alright little clarity I says [TS]

  I'm if allowed to do things the way I [TS]

  like to do them i have a very specific [TS]

  way I like to do them about which I will [TS]

  be obsessive and we're here and I [TS]

  learned I can't do that I throw it all [TS]

  out and do something else so you know [TS]

  I'm really ended like I try to get there [TS]

  like like in the case of this talking it [TS]

  was it was kind of a weird random manic [TS]

  talk that I did but uh but i did made it [TS]

  manic because I thought that's what [TS]

  would work so like I would like to go up [TS]

  and it's maybe it's superstition I don't [TS]

  think it is I like to go up and see [TS]

  where I'm going to be standing before [TS]

  people get there and walk around and see [TS]

  what it would be like to be watching [TS]

  this from the audience i watch other [TS]

  people in the same room [TS]

  I look at stuff like the equipment and [TS]

  what I can expect out of the equipment [TS]

  you know in this case like I learned [TS]

  this is this is an amazing set up they [TS]

  just built this whole fist this whole [TS]

  new four [TS]

  facility at this company with this [TS]

  incredible presentation system like this [TS]

  amazing presentation system where this [TS]

  thing around your neck and it got an [TS]

  infrared signal so the camera can follow [TS]

  you automatically so you can walk around [TS]

  you have to stand in one place we got a [TS]

  built-in mic it was new technology and I [TS]

  learned like for example this is kind of [TS]

  boring may be relevant but like I [TS]

  learned for example that when people saw [TS]

  this on a monitor myself once again the [TS]

  slides would be the main thing on the [TS]

  screen and I would be a [TS]

  picture-in-picture like a sixth of the [TS]

  size of the slide [TS]

  oh right so the thing is it doesn't [TS]

  matter probably not like remote for most [TS]

  people who wouldn't matter because you [TS]

  got your presentation you're going to do [TS]

  in a certain way and you just go up [TS]

  there any power through it and I I don't [TS]

  know I i try to like adapt what I'm [TS]

  going to say and how i'm going to say [TS]

  that depending all of those dumb factors [TS]

  realizing there is a pillow there's a [TS]

  pillar a load-bearing pillar right here [TS]

  that we're like 15 people aren't going [TS]

  to be able to see me so they're gonna [TS]

  feel left out if I'm not found not [TS]

  moving around it's gonna seem kind of [TS]

  weird knowing that these slides so I had [TS]

  to make a lot of like gametime decisions [TS]

  this is not like heroic but like how to [TS]

  change what did you how did you how did [TS]

  you alter your presentation initially I [TS]

  decided as I do about fifty percent of [TS]

  time I initially thought I just threw [TS]

  out the slides not two slides at all i [TS]

  knew that the technology was new and [TS]

  although these guys were very very [TS]

  competent added I still knew that they [TS]

  had only been kind of testing it for a [TS]

  couple weeks so I went into it knowing [TS]

  that all a lot of things could change [TS]

  like even while i was speaking and that [TS]

  makes a really big difference to know [TS]

  that because and why does that matter [TS]

  what matters because if you have a slide [TS]

  deck that you put together where you [TS]

  haven't rehearsed it a lot or let's see [TS]

  even have heard a lot but you're still [TS]

  relying on seeing the slides to know [TS]

  what's next thing you're gonna say is [TS]

  you're doing that awful things like [TS]

  reading off of your slides when you know [TS]

  what the problem is like if you go [TS]

  somewhere don't you slide look at dope [TS]

  because everybody expects slides but the [TS]

  slides can be such a distraction for for [TS]

  a million different reasons so anyway [TS]

  even if i end up doing it 95% the way [TS]

  that I planned I still have the somewhat [TS]

  obsessive walkthrough of knowing you [TS]

  know of you know and the dumb stuff more [TS]

  dumb stuff like some stand-up comic [TS]

  stuff like trying to learn a little bit [TS]

  like I've said to people before like [TS]

  notice like when you arrived at that [TS]

  venue was it hard is it [TS]

  tip this is not the talk but like notice [TS]

  wasn't hard to find a parking space [TS]

  well guess what I bet you almost [TS]

  everybody else in the audience also had [TS]

  trouble finding a parking space [TS]

  did you have to go through crazy [TS]

  security okay you already have something [TS]

  to bring into the room and everybody can [TS]

  share with you [TS]

  that's a great jumping off point to [TS]

  whatever it is you want to say because I [TS]

  you want more than anything like no [TS]

  matter who you are you want to establish [TS]

  what this is about and which things were [TS]

  on the same page about I said you taken [TS]

  two hits of mescaline probably the only [TS]

  people in the audience taken to be have [TS]

  now do you definitely does identify the [TS]

  milanos I I'm it for me that's a little [TS]

  bit of a compulsive thing where I just [TS]

  it helps me walk that stage you know [TS]

  walking stage helps me feel a little bit [TS]

  more relaxed about it but you know to [TS]

  the pivot here like i just watched this [TS]

  documentary about Robin Williams and [TS]

  they were talking about how he did his [TS]

  stand-up i'm not about to compare myself [TS]

  to Robin Williams but very inspirational [TS]

  for me as a kid I mean God I wanted to [TS]

  be rather Williams and talking about [TS]

  like how you know again who knows this [TS]

  could be like ebay started because of [TS]

  pez dispensers not true but supposedly [TS]

  one time he went out and the mic didn't [TS]

  work and that's one of the things that [TS]

  got him started on his whole like [TS]

  roaming into the audience approach to [TS]

  became a real temple of his stand-up was [TS]

  that he really blossomed like a lot of [TS]

  great improv people keep lost him [TS]

  awesome when things went tits-up that [TS]

  when you thrive when things went wrong [TS]

  when the mic broke that's when he [TS]

  learned that he could walk into the [TS]

  audience and be maybe twice as funny as [TS]

  he was doing a you know a gay [TS]

  hairdresser on stage he got to interact [TS]

  with people in the moment and when that [TS]

  went bad it got even funnier if you met [TS]

  a drunkie bring them up on stage and [TS]

  direct them in a film you know so i [TS]

  don't know i always feel like it's it's [TS]

  you know part of the what makes people [TS]

  so anxious about going to those things [TS]

  and about putting on a show like that is [TS]

  the feeling that like something's going [TS]

  to go wrong and i feel like there's like [TS]

  a certain set of things that you can do [TS]

  that will help you be at ease which will [TS]

  help with the audience at ease and then [TS]

  you know you don't have to go up there [TS]

  and read your resume to make people [TS]

  think that you're worth listening to [TS]

  well and what I have discovered in the [TS]

  last year is that the thing that makes [TS]

  me happiest is to do no preparation of [TS]

  any kind i hear that [TS]

  and it makes me happy right up until 10 [TS]

  minutes before I go onstage and then [TS]

  that last 10 minutes of before I go [TS]

  onstage I say idiot [TS]

  what kind of person does no preparation [TS]

  and I spent 10 minutes kind of you know [TS]

  fighting with myself or the other voice [TS]

  is saying this is what you do you do [TS]

  know preparation this is your thing and [TS]

  then I walk up on stage and i'm so glad [TS]

  i didn't know preparation but i cannot [TS]

  vouch for how um I cannot vouch for like [TS]

  the person in the room who is the who is [TS]

  the most predisposed to be suspicious of [TS]

  me or or dislike my show I can't say [TS]

  what [TS]

  oh how they receive it but over time I [TS]

  realized like you can't win them all and [TS]

  that the best shows that i do from from [TS]

  a standpoint of like where I just feel [TS]

  comfortable right up until doing it and [TS]

  then I feel of a rush of excitement and [TS]

  then I feel glad after i'm done our [TS]

  shows where I i dunno i have no notes i [TS]

  have no I have only with that the [TS]

  thinnest kind of sense of like narrative [TS]

  arc and I just walk up and and [TS]

  introduced myself and and I generally do [TS]

  a thing where I say I don't like where [TS]

  the chairs are you know I walk up and [TS]

  I'm just like I don't like where these [TS]

  chairs are right you going to kind of [TS]

  assert yourself in the room [TS]

  yeah like who put this who put this vase [TS]

  here this base doesn't go here and in [TS]

  that moment i'm trying to say like this [TS]

  stage belongs to me now and and i'm also [TS]

  like now on the stage and so that so the [TS]

  the light can descend write the energy [TS]

  can start going [TS]

  and until i walk out there I can't let I [TS]

  can't I can't [TS]

  uncage it or whatever I can unleash a [TS]

  thing but as soon as I walk out if I say [TS]

  if I if I say something like you know [TS]

  this isn't where this goes [TS]

  um you know who chose who chose these [TS]

  curtains you know some kind of thing [TS]

  like that it's it's like uncorking the [TS]

  the relationship the ability to talk to [TS]

  people in the audience like it like [TS]

  there's just four of us there right and [TS]

  i don't know i mean honestly in the next [TS]

  year I think I'll i think i'll have a [TS]

  much better sense of whether that is [TS]

  genuinely a thing because I've been [TS]

  doing these shows at the rendezvous and [TS]

  i know that i have 80 people a week that [TS]

  that keep coming in some combination to [TS]

  see this but this XOXO talk was the [TS]

  first really the first time that I i got [TS]

  up and did oh I did like an hour-long [TS]

  thing right for a room [TS]

  more or less of strain injury law room [TS]

  full of people who for whom it's it [TS]

  would be a lot to assume the reason they [TS]

  came to the conference was to see you [TS]

  the internet they came to that day [TS]

  because they were interested but it's [TS]

  not like 80 people who paid to see you [TS]

  in a small theater [TS]

  yeah right i am i'm one of several [TS]

  presentations every one of which is sort [TS]

  of better prepared some of them totally [TS]

  prepared and and even the least prepared [TS]

  is more structured but you know i don't [TS]

  think i don't think i could get up at a [TS]

  seahawks game and give an hour-long talk [TS]

  about my feelings and thoughts and keep [TS]

  50,000 football fans like on the edge of [TS]

  their seat right maybe maybe that's [TS]

  something to aspire to but uh but I felt [TS]

  like at least at this conference it [TS]

  knowing knowing also not to search too [TS]

  deeply on the internet but but a what a [TS]

  what a a look like a quick read of the [TS]

  Internet in the in the aftermath of the [TS]

  show [TS]

  there wasn't anybody on there saying [TS]

  this was a total waste of my time my [TS]

  galley but I came to this thing I I am I [TS]

  have I always think about like when [TS]

  there's going to be a big swimming race [TS]

  and you'll see those those swimmers that [TS]

  before the gun goes off they'll jump in [TS]

  the water you know I guess that's an old [TS]

  that's an old old trick you know you're [TS]

  talking about so you're on the blocks [TS]

  and you're ready and they'll do they'll [TS]

  intentionally do a false start for which [TS]

  you will not be penalized but there's [TS]

  something about being able to jump in [TS]

  the water and get wet before it's [TS]

  officially started that helps them then [TS]

  be able to feel acclimated and point you [TS]

  could consider I don't recall a [TS]

  competitive advantage but I that that [TS]

  analogy works perfectly for me I [TS]

  completely get why somebody why somebody [TS]

  who's a swimmer would want to jump in [TS]

  the water and get that shot off and then [TS]

  go that's what it feels like to go in [TS]

  the water I can start swimming the [TS]

  second i go in even pro right so I mean [TS]

  for me like having something that this [TS]

  is complicated because I I don't [TS]

  consider myself like a great consistent [TS]

  presenter or performer and I mean I cut [TS]

  a part of me that would really like to [TS]

  be a part of it is i'm just not i'm too [TS]

  lazy to get good at the conventional way [TS]

  of doing those things you think I'm [TS]

  capable of that it's just that it [TS]

  doesn't really interest me to to do that [TS]

  thing in the way people expect so i have [TS]

  to feel I have to interject it's a lazy [TS]

  is this word that you use that i use to [TS]

  describe ourselves and yet you know you [TS]

  work your ass off [TS]

  I worked my ass off and so it's I and I [TS]

  feel this i use the exact same word to [TS]

  say like I am too lazy to put together [TS]

  an hour-long presentation for accept [TS]

  what I really feel like is that too to [TS]

  achieve an hour-long presentation that [TS]

  is better than what i would do by my by [TS]

  my method i would have to work i would [TS]

  have to work for 4am I totally get what [TS]

  you're saying and that's actually where [TS]

  i was going to go with this first of all [TS]

  I got one I mean like I got done [TS]

  throwaways there's a throwaway that I've [TS]

  used maybe three or four times where in [TS]

  this case like I knew a lot of people in [TS]

  the side and second introduced [TS]

  come out and I didn't have like a joke [TS]

  about the venue to start and so I have [TS]

  the dumbest joke in the world that [TS]

  always kills which I come out I look [TS]

  like a douchebag about to give a talk [TS]

  and I say it is everybody ready to get [TS]

  rich and a couple people laugh and I go [TS]

  shut up and for some reason that set the [TS]

  tone that i want for the room I want no [TS]

  that's me jumping in the water that jump [TS]

  in the water and going ok then maybe [TS]

  this isn't gonna be what you expected [TS]

  i'm not gonna this might get a little [TS]

  silly because I look I feel like a dick [TS]

  up here [TS]

  I know I look like a dick up here let's [TS]

  have a little fun with that [TS]

  yeah to do to your point I you know it's [TS]

  so difficult to talk about lazy you're [TS]

  right ladies a tough work is lazy has a [TS]

  negative connotation of meaning that [TS]

  you're like shiftless and you want to [TS]

  get away with stuff by not doing work [TS]

  when I think lazy sometimes is a way I [TS]

  can be a way of us saying there's a [TS]

  different way to do this [TS]

  yeah and and so like on this podcast [TS]

  like a lot that I'm on [TS]

  sometimes-uncomfortable I John siracusa [TS]

  Jason's know a lot of people use this [TS]

  phrase we're talking about movies [TS]

  we're talking about TV and it's it's a [TS]

  it's a phrase from athletics but applies [TS]

  a lot to storytelling and they'll say [TS]

  well you know the thing is what this [TS]

  person doing here had a high degree of [TS]

  difficulty so it may not be the most [TS]

  perfectly executed thing you've ever [TS]

  seen but it was pretty interesting [TS]

  because they tried something a little [TS]

  bit different and sometimes you give [TS]

  people a little more credit something [TS]

  like a no more fantastic way of [TS]

  storytelling you people a little more [TS]

  credit for trying something that is not [TS]

  what the expected thing was so right to [TS]

  the laziness angle to me that means I [TS]

  the the the middle level of difficulty [TS]

  is to have a completely polished [TS]

  100-percent bulletproof show that never [TS]

  goes wrong with beautiful graphics [TS]

  fantastic presentation and maybe i'll [TS]

  tell you if we can all aspire to doing [TS]

  that to having a show that when you know [TS]

  flawlessly you got the hundred-percent [TS]

  entertainment experience it's just that [TS]

  the thing is if you don't put yourself [TS]

  into a position where you could fail by [TS]

  trying something different a lot of the [TS]

  excitement kind of drains out of the [TS]

  room [TS]

  it's really nice to watch someone shoe a [TS]

  horse who really knows how to do it you [TS]

  sure hope they don't kill the fucking [TS]

  horse but at the same time there's [TS]

  something nice about knowing there's no [TS]

  net here it's what makes him prob so [TS]

  interesting to me is that like on the [TS]

  one hand [TS]

  ok again I could never do stand-up [TS]

  don't think because i don't have the [TS]

  brain for it and I'm terrified of the [TS]

  idea of having to go through a stand-up [TS]

  routine the idea of improv is incredibly [TS]

  exhilarating to me because when it goes [TS]

  wrong is when it gets interesting and [TS]

  that's actually kinda when I thrive so [TS]

  when I say lazy i think part of it is [TS]

  also that like I could spend a lot of my [TS]

  least interesting energy and skills on [TS]

  trying to make this exactly what sixty [TS]

  percent of the audience would expect and [TS]

  then I'd be evaluated based on whether [TS]

  it was as good as a Seth Godin talk or [TS]

  whatever which is fine because the guy [TS]

  gives great talks i could see wanting to [TS]

  become that but that's kind of what [TS]

  everybody wants to become so maybe it's [TS]

  a little cheat a little bit but I think [TS]

  it's also that's that's how I want to be [TS]

  entertaining [TS]

  I want to be entertaining by going out [TS]

  there and going like this and you just [TS]

  can't even know how I tear my hair out [TS]

  for the three weeks before i do any talk [TS]

  like I'm a nervous wreck i've done a lot [TS]

  and I still incredibly nervous about it [TS]

  because I wanted to be something that is [TS]

  I want to be in that room I wanted to be [TS]

  something you have kind of had to be in [TS]

  the room for as it happened right [TS]

  watching our video later you might go [TS]

  that was okay that was kind of funny [TS]

  that was weird [TS]

  why do you do that but in the room I [TS]

  wanted to be as exhilarating for them [TS]

  for the people who can like it in the [TS]

  way I want to do it and to me that's [TS]

  what independent entertainment is is [TS]

  figuring out how to do something the way [TS]

  the best way you know how to do it in [TS]

  front of people who are prepared to [TS]

  enjoy it that way and will will [TS]

  appreciate the level of difficulty in [TS]

  trying something they never expected [TS]

  that day [TS]

  yeah and I i have to keep I have to not [TS]

  just keep reminding myself of that but [TS]

  keep walking back to that initial [TS]

  premise which is that whatever it is I'm [TS]

  trying to do because i don't i couldn't [TS]

  be a stand-up either i don't even [TS]

  understand how it works like you said [TS]

  and think of a funny joke and then you [TS]

  may be trying out 10 versions of it over [TS]

  you trying to run here like and then you [TS]

  try and work it up so that it seems like [TS]

  you're just thinking about it for the [TS]

  first time when you're onstage and you [TS]

  do that every night like I couldn't do [TS]

  it I don't even know how to I don't know [TS]

  how to do it because what i think is [TS]

  great about being funny hear about jokes [TS]

  is like oh that just popped up like the [TS]

  best jokes I've ever heard are ones that [TS]

  just popped up [TS]

  let last week when I said in a meta way [TS]

  let's move on and you thought I was [TS]

  telling you that we should move on on [TS]

  the show when I was actually talking [TS]

  about the guy you got in a fight with a [TS]

  lot to me that was a very funny moment [TS]

  because it was not what we expected only [TS]

  both misunderstood each other and that [TS]

  may be funny [TS]

  you can't plan that no and Shawn Nelson [TS]

  is amazing at that kind of humor and you [TS]

  are amazing at that kind of humor where [TS]

  it's just like pow [TS]

  and that's what I like but but i keep [TS]

  thinking you know I keep judging my [TS]

  attempts at doing these improvisational [TS]

  talks or extemporaneous talks rather up [TS]

  by like well as this as good as a [TS]

  TEDTalk is this as good as as as is this [TS]

  as good as them as Tony Robbins is this [TS]

  look is this motivational is this like [TS]

  that what will people profit from this [TS]

  and I have to keep walking back to this [TS]

  idea like this is what i am doing and [TS]

  I'm just trying to find a place to do it [TS]

  where people are where people appreciate [TS]

  the difficulty appreciate the well as [TS]

  the Syracuse it says like the create a [TS]

  culture degree of difficulty you know [TS]

  like this is difficult [TS]

  the degree of difficulty for me getting [TS]

  up and extemporize in for an hour is [TS]

  less than it might be for a lot of [TS]

  people because that is a that's a thing [TS]

  like swimming or running that I can do [TS]

  but it is still like extremely [TS]

  challenging and and if you're judging it [TS]

  like tight i'm sure i told you we played [TS]

  the independent in San Francisco one [TS]

  time you might have been at the show or [TS]

  it might have been during that phase [TS]

  when you weren't coming too long winter [TS]

  shows because the sexual tension between [TS]

  you and I had gotten so high [TS]

  but i don't know if you remember this [TS]

  but I walked out on stage we started to [TS]

  play the first song and I tripped over [TS]

  my amplifier and fell backwards and [TS]

  broke the guitar that was behind the [TS]

  amplifier and like ended up feet in the [TS]

  air just on top of the smash smash [TS]

  members of the car this is the only [TS]

  getting four minutes into the set and I [TS]

  bounced back up I was like hello I found [TS]

  da and I read later a review from a [TS]

  woman where she was just like I they'll [TS]

  the long winters took the stage i'm a [TS]

  huge fan of theirs but this is the first [TS]

  time I've ever seen him live took the [TS]

  stage and they were drunk and like [TS]

  completely unprofessional [TS]

  they didn't play any of the songs in a [TS]

  way that sounded like they were on the [TS]

  record [TS]

  well gosh oh my and and i just think i [TS]

  just wish that they would like take [TS]

  their job seriously and put on a [TS]

  professional show and you know it hurt [TS]

  but I also felt like I couldn't I [TS]

  couldn't put on the kind of professional [TS]

  show that she's expecting I couldn't do [TS]

  it and so I can't ever judge myself [TS]

  according to that standard because it [TS]

  would it's just like it's it's like [TS]

  judging yourself against against against [TS]

  like this anonymous profile photo like [TS]

  this blank picture the little egg on [TS]

  twitter is like they're evaluating [TS]

  yourself against a completely anonymous [TS]

  and unknown world and then wondering how [TS]

  any of like whatever 78 billion people [TS]

  could conceivably not love what you did [TS]

  which is completely bananas [TS]

  yeah it's bananas but it's so it's so uh [TS]

  it's so maximum rock and roll it so this [TS]

  band could be your life to constantly [TS]

  remind yourself and it's absolutely [TS]

  necessary to constantly remind myself [TS]

  that what I'm doing what I'm trying to [TS]

  do has a small audience and that is not [TS]

  an indictment of it [TS]

  mhm and and the fact that it has a small [TS]

  audience and will not ever produce [TS]

  massive wealth and Dan Harmon is never [TS]

  gonna recognize me and I met you know my [TS]

  face is not going to be my calling card [TS]

  with gillian jacobs i'm going to just be [TS]

  a guy who's doing a thing and it's it's [TS]

  small and weird but the people who want [TS]

  to be there really want to be there and [TS]

  like that is that's such a a complex [TS]

  idea to keep in the front of your mind [TS]

  and it seems illogical it does because [TS]

  everywhere we go everything we look at [TS]

  in the in our culture now is trying to [TS]

  be as big as possible or except for [TS]

  except for my friends and your friends [TS]

  that are doing things that are actually [TS]

  good that I like that's what you're [TS]

  nailing in there isn't is to meet is an [TS]

  inherent paradox whenever you whenever [TS]

  anyone hear me moaning about the the [TS]

  mobs that are out there you know in on [TS]

  the internet one way or another time [TS]

  when partly moaning about is that [TS]

  there's the paradox which is on the one [TS]

  hand the upside the great side of the [TS]

  paradox is it's probably never been [TS]

  easier if you have the interest i mean [TS]

  when you say the talent if you have if [TS]

  you want to get something out there in [TS]

  front of other people [TS]

  I would defy you to pull up a time when [TS]

  you would have a better chance of [TS]

  economically putting what it is you like [TS]

  to do in front of other people think [TS]

  it's kind of hard to dispute but at the [TS]

  same time all those other people out [TS]

  there doing their own performance which [TS]

  is what they have to say about you which [TS]

  i think is just something that we that [TS]

  we have to accept the paradox part for [TS]

  me comes from people i think especially [TS]

  when you have moments of self-doubt like [TS]

  we all have you're wondering if you're [TS]

  able to do anything good is that you [TS]

  start listening a lot more to the people [TS]

  who are telling you what you need to be [TS]

  that's different from who you are and [TS]

  i'm not talking about you know just [TS]

  morally ethically anything it could just [TS]

  be that they want you to play your songs [TS]

  like on the record and the thing is that [TS]

  the voices that you're most likely to [TS]

  hear it's difficult to hear the voices [TS]

  of the people who are essentially like I [TS]

  still I still enjoy the thing you do I'm [TS]

  anxious for the imax to the next thing [TS]

  that you would like to do which I think [TS]

  it's certainly that can become a recipe [TS]

  for self-absorption but [TS]

  it's really important to remember that [TS]

  nobody out there is looking for the most [TS]

  average version of a given jon renau [TS]

  nobody wants the like you know the [TS]

  algorithm for the heuristic that's going [TS]

  to create the most lovable band in the [TS]

  world that would be terrible [TS]

  they've done this with pop music they [TS]

  use I've heard these things where they [TS]

  take one of the elements that make a [TS]

  great pop song and try to [TS]

  algorithmically figure that it's draws a [TS]

  city rollers [TS]

  Wow almost looks like a crazy butBut I [TS]

  don't know I know it sounds like [TS]

  inspiration or something but like i just [TS]

  i think it's important to remember that [TS]

  like you maybe i'm not saying that you [TS]

  should go on like this really love [TS]

  everything you've ever made but you [TS]

  should remember that the people who came [TS]

  along with you so far we're there [TS]

  because they found something interesting [TS]

  about what you're doing [TS]

  maybe they didn't love every every song [TS]

  maybe they didn't love every blog post [TS]

  maybe they love every video or podcast [TS]

  but they were there because there's [TS]

  something about you that they found [TS]

  interesting and I think just about the [TS]

  worst thing you can do is to allow [TS]

  yourself to become less interesting in [TS]

  the service of pleasing completely [TS]

  anonymous group of people because [TS]

  there's an anonymous group of people [TS]

  they're never gonna love you right it's [TS]

  like all you can do is try to become a [TS]

  better version of whatever you're fucked [TS]

  up self is in front of other people and [TS]

  there's never been a better time to try [TS]

  and do that [TS]

  yeah and i think this is what we should [TS]

  have done it that talk if it's hardwood [TS]

  shut up we could have said this to [TS]

  people [TS]

  oh I love that I I feel like more and [TS]

  more all I'm trying to do is to make [TS]

  matter how he happy [TS]

  that's a great goal and if I'm making [TS]

  him happy I feel like I'm you know I'm [TS]

  in the ballpark of what I should be [TS]

  doing is so fucking funny that you [TS]

  should say that Amy and the other day I [TS]

  was sitting on a street corner playing [TS]

  threes but the diabolical and thank that [TS]

  and banana diabolical cellphone game [TS]

  that you bought for me and I'm sitting [TS]

  there playing threes and over the course [TS]

  of the weekend at the XOXO festival i [TS]

  was playing three is quite a bit because [TS]

  it's now all that my brain wants to do [TS]

  and it's keeping you off the internet [TS]

  multiple people walked by and did overdo [TS]

  the thing I guess which is now [TS]

  acceptable which is to look at someone [TS]

  else's phone to see what they're doing [TS]

  and then they would tap me on the [TS]

  shoulder and give me two thumbs [TS]

  that would be like 30 my right and I was [TS]

  like oh my god [TS]

  but I'm sitting I'm playing threes on [TS]

  the side like outside of a venue at one [TS]

  o'clock in the morning sitting against a [TS]

  wall crouched on the sidewalk playing [TS]

  threes and matter how he walks over and [TS]

  he's like you're playing threes I said [TS]

  yeah I didn't look up i just said yeah [TS]

  he's like that makes me so happy and I [TS]

  was like I'm doing the right thing that [TS]

  I'm making man how we happy [TS]

  oh god I will cut this out after I say [TS]

  it I used to be I'm not this is not [TS]

  going to make it into the show [TS]

  ok I I used to be on a really popular [TS]

  podcast and you know let's just say that [TS]

  I felt like they were good weeks and bad [TS]

  weeks but there's a part of me that was [TS]

  like I'm not sure that I'm the right [TS]

  person to do this anymore and i'm just [TS]

  going to say at one point [TS]

  matt said he couldn't listen to the show [TS]

  anymore and it had a huge effect on me [TS]

  deciding to do it anymore [TS]

  well and what was his reason what he did [TS]

  not like about it oh you know it wasn't [TS]

  for him I don't want to get into it but [TS]

  all I'm trying to say is how fucking [TS]

  funny is that it was exactly matter how [TS]

  he's saying you know [TS]

  yeah i have been able to sit for a while [TS]

  and I was like okay thanks to get [TS]

  unlimited that was the company later [TS]

  when I you're my canary in the coal mine [TS]

  so if i try you know I don't even really [TS]

  try to describe three is to you because [TS]

  I a new it's one of those things like [TS]

  trying to you know describe the [TS]

  hallelujah chorus or something like that [TS]

  so there's little those cards you move [TS]

  around you try and make three zones of [TS]

  them and you feel like okay that sounds [TS]

  really interesting but what do you think [TS]

  let us review you know it took me it [TS]

  took me it took me three hours like you [TS]

  know you get it I get you get it right [TS]

  away kind of and then it takes about [TS]

  three hours to sort of go like oh i see [TS]

  the I see the bigger picture and then [TS]

  after about three hours it's like right [TS]

  all right we're cooking here and I you [TS]

  know I got like AI scored eight thousand [TS]

  or something obviously are you are you [TS]

  serious you know the top scores are like [TS]

  a million my friend serenity got like [TS]

  64,000 yeah I can't get over I [TS]

  think it over like 8,000 ever ever ever [TS]

  and i've been playing like a lot [TS]

  yeah right well 8,000 is hard to get to [TS]

  and so then I then as I got to know it [TS]

  better you know by like the second day I [TS]

  couldn't get anywhere close to eight [TS]

  thousand because I'm overthinking it and [TS]

  I was like over here I was over there [TS]

  and clean up those twos and ones i think [TS]

  that's the H key [TS]

  yep and so now I've settled into a kind [TS]

  of a comfortable like you know sort of [TS]

  seven eight thousand ya got so fucking [TS]

  angry I and and how he was angry too he [TS]

  was like you've been playing this for [TS]

  how long and I was like I don't know [TS]

  three days four days and he was like you [TS]

  fuck you but what's crazy is that I have [TS]

  never gotten what is the what is the [TS]

  next one for me I think I've I meant [TS]

  like that she's like the 256 one or I [TS]

  might have gotten the whatever that next [TS]

  big one is the f55 whatever i've gotten [TS]

  that five whatever's but I haven't [TS]

  gotten the the 1000 dry when it says oh [TS]

  my so I'm cooking like it though making [TS]

  the 192 but I really feel like now I [TS]

  need to understand something else that I [TS]

  don't understand about it like i have to [TS]

  dig I had a path to dig deeper into the [TS]

  theory kind of become of fan its I'm [TS]

  right play it a lot i really like I mean [TS]

  it's only been it's only been three or [TS]

  four days since i put it on my phone [TS]

  orders are like strategy soy sauce [TS]

  punching article surrounding right about [TS]

  this but I think one of them is you [TS]

  gotta work the corners work the corners [TS]

  you're saying how does that help [TS]

  ok alright work the corners right i just [TS]

  learned yesterday that you can like kind [TS]

  of preview a move own and not let go [TS]

  that's huge and watch for that little [TS]

  notation that over the plus that a big [TS]

  week coming where a big 1i like the big [TS]

  ones anyway fun game [TS]

  you were right not to describe it to me [TS]

  because I had the the fun of of [TS]

  discovery boom-boom to hear my sleep but [TS]

  let me help a lot of people this week [TS]

  you think so yeah check the rest of the [TS]

  day off [TS]

  alright i agree to high-five who I [TS]

  filled three coffee cups with pee while [TS]

  we're doing the show [TS]

  yeah i just added a mute button that's [TS]

  pretty cool a very nice and there's the [TS]

  [Music] [TS]