Roderick on the Line

00:00:00 ◼   ► this episode of Robert on the line is [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► platform that makes it fast and easy to [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► create your own professional website [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► portfolio and online store for your free [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► trial plus ten percent off anything you [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► buy please visit squarespace.com and the [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► very special offer code supertrain at [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► checkout better web starts with your [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► website [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► hello hey John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► pretty good [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► what's the matter where they man John [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► huh oh no things are good things are [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► good you know is one of those it's just [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► one of those like how good can things be [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► you know what I mean yeah how good can [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► they be really yeah you know it's a [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► common there's a comment coming there's [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► a meat-eor giant meteor gonna wipe us [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► out [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► I didn't know about this yeah how good [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► can we feel that a BuzzFeed thinks I [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► should catch up on that day what if you [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► were on reddit you would know I you [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► gotta get off the Red John I've never [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► been on reddit [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► oh I'm follow a tumblr site that puts up [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► pictures of cute animals from that site [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► but that's about it [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► yeah every once in a while someone says [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► I should do an ama from reddit I thought [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► you were gonna do what i thought i saw [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► you scheduled for one of those i don't [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► think i ever was but in any case I I [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► don't understand the interface i look at [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► reddit and it looks like it's you know [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► it looks like an organizational chart [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► yeah or like a like an outline for a [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► term paper [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► yeah it's gonna get a tree format at [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► reformat right and and you know what [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► when i first got on the internet 1990 [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► art 7mm and I would go on the newsgroups [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► or rather I would go to the internet i [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► would go to a place where people were on [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► the internet and I would look over their [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► shoulder while they were on the news [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► groups and i would say why are you doing [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► this [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► what what is this about and they were [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► like all see you go over here and [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► there's a guy that tells you how to [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► build a ham radio [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► I'm like I mean yeah but I did didn't it [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► never appealed to me [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► partly because i didn't like the didn't [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► like the way that it looked like the way [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► it was shaped and read it's like that [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► for me [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► yeah i mean i think in some ways and [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► this is really reductive but I i think i [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► sometimes feel like you can break it [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► down into these two general levels of [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► interest and anything about a site like [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► metafilter which is similar in some ways [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► even metafilter like some percent of the [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► time [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► I'm most interested in what people have [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► to say about the link but a lot of times [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► I'm really most interested in the link [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► right and and I think the thing that [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► makes the internet hard for me to [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► understand sometimes is that there are a [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► lot of people who are weary more [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► interested in the comments and the link [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► that's not a judgment but then it is a [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► real difference in some ways that they [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► see the link as the jumping-off point [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► for providing opinion and having witty [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► repartee right now and i had to come [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► tend to be more interested in ruminating [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► on the link [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► yes especially by myself in in solitude [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► agreed and agreed [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► yeah i was thinking as I loaded up my [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► briefcase today to come down here in my [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► briefcase briefcase i have that was [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► loading up my briefcase i was thinking [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► that in my dad's time there is no my dad [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► put nothing electrical in his briefcase [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► with the exception perhaps of a micro [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► cassette recorder for a to dictate right [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► but there were no there's no cabling of [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► any kind in my dad's briefcase you [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► didn't have like he had to plug anything [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► in when he got to work or nothing and [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► nothing ever got plugged in when my dad [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► was at an airport he never plugged a [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► single thing in in his life and as I am [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► as I'm loading up my briefcase just to [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► come down here to talk to you and I'm [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► like oh I gotta get that other cable and [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► I go over and I get a cable and I stick [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► it in a so-called right and I need that [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► cable for that other thing and I go get [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► that cable and pretty soon you know your [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► briefcases just like it's just a [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► spaghetti of of different wires the [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► x-rated it was like a bomb yeah right [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► and and and and it caused me to think [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► that up until probably about I would say [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► into the nineties if your if your work [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► entailed that you were using electrical [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► gizmos it was a ninety-nine percent [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► chance that you were a technician that [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► you were either you're a blue-collar [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► person and you had a briefcase full of [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► gizmos because your job involved you [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► doing some [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► monitoring of some HVAC equipment right [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► and now it is completely flipped and [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► every everybody is carrying around [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► electronic equipment all the time you [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► are measured in fact your status is [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► measured by how much is mala g you have [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► in your bag not how little my dad never [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► had a single and no one he knew had a [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► single gizmo right yeah yeah I get what [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► you're saying and it's funny because [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► like as much as you get like a new [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► laptop bag or a new briefcase in your [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► case you know if you simply adapted to [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► that because when you when you're [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► describing somebody who dealt with gives [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► us for living not thinking about like a [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► phone repair person yeah right he had a [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► hardshell case he had a goddamn van [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► yeah starting to think I don't need a [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► backpack i need of an he had a van with [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► a ladder on the top right yeah and and [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► it's ended it [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► you know it's good the culture could [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► have gone a lot of different ways we [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► could have gone it's like that are that [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► famous our crumb drawing of of of [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► progress right and first it's horse [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► drawn carriage and then it's a [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► locomotive and then it's phone wires and [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► and el Caminos and more and more the [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► landscape is filled up with phone wires [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► in encroaching technology and mr. the [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► sort of little or lesser known coda to [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► that drawing were that his three [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► possible versions of the future and one [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► of them was like hover cars and electric [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► and and serve Jetsons houses and one of [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► them was a completely blown out [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► landscape of just like dystopia and then [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► obviously the one that he / this is hard [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► it's hard for me to reconcile this with [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► what I know about our crumb but the [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► third option of his three options was a [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► kind of ecouture Pia of years it's [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► and tall forest and people you know a [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► community of people living in a natural [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► hippie style it's an option it's an [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► option it but it seemed to me that it [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► seems like our chrome would have he [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► would have desired that the future [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► looked like everyone wearing spats and [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► straw boaters and playing the banjo [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► actually how the future turned out haha [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► we are living in an R crumb dream future [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► that even he didn't envision didn't [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► carry their pictures around with them [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► yeah I got picked on a lot by so yeah I [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► but i wonder i mean we went this way [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► IRA do you remember the osborne computer [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► I i know of it i have my my best friend [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► in high school his father was an early [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► adopter and he owned an oz burn which [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► was the first briefcase computer that [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► was the size of it was this it was [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► bigger than a been at our computer right [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► bigger than what we would call a [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► necessary I'm what would you call that [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► yeah I know what you mean like it's [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► bigger than a desktop computer it's it's [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► it's not not at all portable but much [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► smaller than the mainframe or mini [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► computers that we thought of as being a [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► computer at the time [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► yeah and the entire screen was about the [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► size of an iphone to disk drives and [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► today he actually brought my friend [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► brought that down to our they brought it [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► over to my house sometimes and you know [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► plate we played games on the osburn [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► and to think that that is in a museum [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► now [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► no that's that's it is haha episode of [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► rock on the line is once again sponsored [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► by our very good friends at Squarespace [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► the only one platform that makes it fast [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► and easy to create your own professional [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► website portfolio and online store make [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► the whole process so simple they have an [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► easy drag-and-drop interface with [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► beautiful free templates that you can [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► tweak to suit your needs all the [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► squarespace six designs are responsive [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► so they look great on every device and [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► Squarespace also offers free 24 x seven [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► support to live chat and email with [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► dedicated teams based in New York City [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► dublin and Portland guys I love [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► Squarespace because they take care of [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► all the hard and annoying stuff about [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► running a website i promise you as a [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► season technologist there's a lot of [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► hard and annoying stuff about running a [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► website but with squarespace they handle [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► all the front end the backend [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► integration design SEO you're free to [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► spend your time doing nothing but [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► putting up your own great stuff you're [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► writing your photos your store your life [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► it's just the best crazy part is [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► Squarespace plan started only eight [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► dollars a month and that includes a free [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► domain name if you sign up for a year so [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► please remember to tell Squarespace that [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► you heard about him from her pals at [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► Robert online because listeners of this [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► program get a free trial plus ten [TS]

00:09:43 ◼   ► percent of any package they choose by [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► using the very special offer code [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► supertrain at checkout our thanks to [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► squarespace for supporting rod on the [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► line we could not do it without this [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► know there are a lot of ways I could go [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► with that but I got tired of hearing [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► myself talk haha i am you know what I [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► notice is you know everybody everybody i [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► know but but for probably all kinds of [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► obvious reasons most people i know have [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► a smartphone of some kind you got an [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► iphone android phone you got to whatever [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► phone but like in my neighborhood which [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► is mostly you know people from Asia lot [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► of chinese people on home so many people [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► still have like a clamshell like a flip [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► phone feature phone interested in it i [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► mean that the interesting thing about [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► that is though I mean [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► see now I'm gonna get our mom back again [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► but like the funny thing is like we get [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► these I get a new phone every what two [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► years three or something like that you [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► know and as you've noted you got to get [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► there the reckon the right charging [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► cables and you get all synced up and [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► it's it's a weird thing though that like [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► these folks have the same roughly the [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► same phone that I had before I got an [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► iphone so like they've got like a mid [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► 2000s level phone it looks like it's [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► been at the bottom of a fish tank for [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► six yrs a razor [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► oh yeah well in a lot of cases like the [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► samsung phones man you could hammer [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► nails with those things those old nokia [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► phones like their another really strong [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► and I guess those bands still work if [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► you need to have a phone and that's what [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► people use it for today their [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► interaction is they they have that phone [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► for phone things and they talk about it [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► sometimes and then close it up and put [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► their pocket and they said I'm you act [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► like they're asleep [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► it's a thing but you know and I don't [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► really feel like assistant assistant [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► insightful as your other more and i [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► guess haha i remember that was a time [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► when that I am [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► why do we need more than three TV [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► channels [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► what's the deal haha you got for you got [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► three VHF channel he had to a UHF [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► channels wait what-what-what are good [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► people do you could only watch one at a [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► time [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► it's a matter but I you know but you [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► know that the one thing I will say [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► though is that I i think that this might [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► come out of certainly comes out of the [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► rapid pace of technology and it comes [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► out of my still even though i'm getting [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► to be older and I'm not as interested in [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► New nerdy stuff by a long shot [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► as I was even five years ago even now [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► still I find myself like i don't i don't [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► feel like things have gotten that much [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► easier because by the time they're all [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► the bugs have been worked out of you [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► know whatever iOS or standard whatever [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► by the time I'm getting the hang of that [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► there's a new one and then I sit on that [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► for a while are my backup still working [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► is this thing still oh now like my wife [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► my wife and it for the last three years [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► had 14 copies of every contact my wife [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► my wife [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► no I here's the thing with my wife she's [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► got a but I've got in there and I have [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► like once a year I go in and I [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► definitively decided I actually have a [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► built-in purpose [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► program then we'll help me locate and [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► delete but like her contacts now are so [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► screwed up that she doesn't like she [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► mostly has 14 copies of the same contact [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► so she has something like 5000 contacts [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► or in some cases i guess maybe this app [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► got it wrong and now in some cases [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► you'll have a contact that has 35 email [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► addresses from different people [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► associated with me and so now i'm just [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► to the point where I open that up and i [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► look at it and go you know what I should [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► just burn it down if you never added [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► from the whole yeah I want you to take [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► this piece of paper write down the the [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► note phone numbers and email addresses [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► of five people that you really need and [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► let's start over [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► oh no you know the thing to do is to of [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► course to send it above a bulk email out [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► to everyone in your contact list i sent [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► out a blast saying reply to this with [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► your with your contact information [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► because I dropped my phone or whatever [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► reply yes men and then only the people [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► that reply [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► those are those are your only true [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► friends like those notes I get from [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► people that I haven't even have enough [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► that i haven't haven't talked to them in [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► 15 years we have a lot of them in 15 [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► years and maybe had one interaction with [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► them look during the Clinton [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► administration and I still every year to [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► get an email from them with their [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► updated contact deets [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► yeah yeah here here's a my new my new [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► email address [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► yeah like your new email address who [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► changes email addresses [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► yeah I don't know as the market i'm john [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► time marches on [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► I feel like I I've touched on this over [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► the over the years in talking to you but [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► but but they're the but i want to say it [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► again which it there was naught which is [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► that that uh sort of sort of elaborate [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► on what i was saying a minute ago that [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► the way we use the word tech and we [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► talked about tech now like it is a like [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► it's kind of a new realm right like tech [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► the tech economy is we think of tech as [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► a as a thing that's only been around for [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► 15 years [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► and it can be virtually anything it can [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► mean television set-top boxes it could [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► be an app on your iPhone it could be it [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► could be all these different things and [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► it's like we suddenly invented a way to [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► use technology that we never had before [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► yeah yeah and-and-and like technology [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► somehow didn't exist before but but in [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► fact like over the course of that means [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► just since the Industrial Revolution [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► there have been innumerable periods [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► where where the culture at the time was [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► fascinated by the new technology right [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► everybody you know the cotton gin or the [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► head or the Machine rolled cigarette or [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► the or the automobile for Christ's sake [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► and the technology of the moment is [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► super fascinating to people and seems [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► like it's revolutionized the way the [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► people conduct their lives and then the [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► the kind of the dust settles and that [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► technology becomes commonplace and [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► people stop talking about it right they [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► go back to the the more important or [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► more interesting business of talking [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► about ideas or of talking about what I [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► mean this is politics even and we're [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► living in this this kind of extended [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► period where we're talking about tack [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► and interacting with tech as though that [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► isn't that is in itself culture and oh I [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► get what I mean like yeah it's like in [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► the in the late seventies early eighties [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► I think newspaper started realizing that [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► people were dying and so they started [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► having a section in the paper called [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► health and suddenly for the first time [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► you started seeing stuff about whatever [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► peach pits of curing cancer or whatever [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► and that became like a hot thing and now [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► today it's not unusual to see a section [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► anywhere of something called tech [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► because people are using text to look at [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► Tech and texts its own thing [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► Tech is its own thing and and in a way [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► it certainly in the in the little ghetto [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► that we live in [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► like tech is the topic and and when I [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► was younger or I mean one but when we [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► used to prognosticate about tech it was [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► always that tech was going to facilitate [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► the conversation tech was going to you [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► know and that is part of the [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► conversation we're having now that tech [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► is just starting a conversation about [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► tech yeah right and i couldn't be less [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► interested / overtime an ocular point of [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► view john glenn podcast talk about [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► ah nothing this up but uh but you know [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► you know what I'm saying like I do i do [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► I see lasting I keep waiting for tech to [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► stop being the topic and for that [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► because I do feel like ultimately it is [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► but it lowers the quality of the [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► dialogue I'm I'm i feel like i am down [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► not thats that's a maybe maybe a [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► disparaging way to put it but i feel [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► like i am i am talking to a bunch of [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► people with the cables in their vans all [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► the time but that those people are are [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► presenting themselves and imagine [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► themselves to be part of the like the [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► the real like think thinking level and [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► repeat their firm in a van [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► yeah probably for me in a van with the [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► ladder on the top 500 index in peace [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► better scary for me man with the ladder [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► on top what I was terrified of I had [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► this terrible a realization the other [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► day that you know you and I both have [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► prepared our long lives to be uh [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► prognosticator and then thinkers and [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► hosts and toasters and you know like we [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► imagined when we were young that there [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► was a very important job [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► in the world which was hard to get and [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► really a prize when you got it which was [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► that you were a person with some [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► thoughts about things that people wanted [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► to hear [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► uh-huh and you were the you were the [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► voice are you were the three were the [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► the thinker the public person the [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► citizen artist and I have this sort of [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► terrible moment when I I was reflecting [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► back on the eighties when as you do [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► yeah that's the terrible nothing more [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► from this terrible moment when I I i [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► remember the Spotted Owl controversy [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► here in the northwest and trying to [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► tease out all the different sides of it [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► when when it was really fun it embroiled [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► here and realizing that but the answer [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► was that it wasn't possible to save all [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► the lumberjack jobs and the Lumberjacks [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► were protesting on the streets of [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► packwood or wherever the hell they lived [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► and they were saying like we're losing [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► our jobs to this to this bird and two [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► and what it really was was that we were [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► shipping all of their work all their [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► jobs / 22 Asia we're putting the raw [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► logs on boats and sending them to Asia [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► rather than milling them here but the [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► owl was a scapegoat but they were [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► marching and saying like we are losing [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► our jobs and and that they presented it [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► as this kind of like I mean we can't [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► lose our jobs so you have to find [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► another solution other than that we that [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► we stop cutting down trees or that would [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► you know and i remember having that the [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► insight that like oh these are these [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► jobs are gone that these there are there [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► won't be these lumberjack trolox no [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► amount of protesting will change the [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► reality of that [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► yeah the the sad truth and the and the [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► truth that no politician kind of has the [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► guts to stand up and say is like no it's [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► already happened [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► and it was the same with the autoworkers [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► in detroit right about the same time [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► like hey we're losing our jobs and these [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► are good union jobs that were paying a [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► hundred and fifty thousand dollars a [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► year for us to lean on a broom and smoke [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► cigarettes and we can't lose these jobs [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► and I was like well yeah in fact they're [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► there already gone and you made a bad [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► choice by leaving on a broom and smoking [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► a cigarette and it kind of worked for a [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► while but now it's over and and and [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► watching those groups of workers have [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► the slow dreadful realization that that [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► they're put it there wasn't going to be [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► it wasn't just a matter of going over [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► and getting another job across the [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► street it was that the whole thing was [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► done and the ones that could adapt did [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► and the ones that couldn't are on Social [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► Security right now and yelling about [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► obama but that this realization that you [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► and I maybe have prepared our whole [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► lives imagining that what we do and what [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► we can do was some kind of rare talent [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► that that the world desperately craved [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► and now we have arrived at precisely the [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► moment when it is hardest which is to [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► say middle-aged and I just I'm realizing [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► like it maybe maybe our jobs have been [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► are starting to be outsourced in the [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► sense that every teenager has an opinion [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► and the values that right values it [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► equally with ours and it's and it's know [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► and they're better and they're better at [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► engaging with the people who are [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► primarily there to make comments who are [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► going to make a lot do a lot of the [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► heavy lifting for them right [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► well in back to that previous thing [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► there's nothing in one of the many lost [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► episodes that people here we talked [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► about college I don't remember when it [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► was when we talk sometime ago you and I [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► offline about college and and it's and [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► and events in particular in the context [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► of college being something that was I we [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► tell me if I'm putting this [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► right but that for both of us and maybe [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► for our generation i guess or for you [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► know II similar middle-class white kids [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► college was something that was just you [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► were gonna go to college and every [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► decision that you made on the way to go [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► into college was primarily an [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► opportunity to screw up your chance to [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► go to college [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► it wasn't it wasn't something and again [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► i'm sorry there's a bit of that we could [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► but that but no seriously though that [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► there was that we both I think we both [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► shared that sense that like every every [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► known or unknown thing that was on the [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► path for us was well for one thing on [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► one path here at that path is you're [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► gonna fucking go to college right [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► inexorable march so you going out and [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► drinking that beer it's not just about [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► you breaking a rule about drinking a [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► beer when you're underage [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► it's about the fact that could really [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► screw up your with your one opportunity [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► to be something nowadays and so the [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► thing that in thinking about them will [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► go a little bit John Rother care but in [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► talking about what you're saying here i [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► wonder if one thing we lose or are are [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► losing or have lost in some ways i mean [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► i think that many people that are really [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► excited to go to college for the sake of [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► going to college I just it feels it's [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► become so wrote and so costly and so i [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► don't know i mean there's a part of me [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► that like once I was in college I was [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► really into it because here's the thing [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► yes on some level I thought of myself as [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► a future Dick Cavett but i also was [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► really open to the idea that there was [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► so much stuff that I knew the name of [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► but I didn't know anything about it and [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► I was really open the idea of something [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► okay well you have you talked to your [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► butt a little bit about Shakespeare here [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► how about you read some of those you've [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► talked about these these novels in these [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► great works these classics well now [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► you're going to read those you're gonna [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► go see all these paintings that have [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► been named check and we're going to talk [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► about them in context so there's at [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► least some part of me that was really [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► open to being a vessel for a while and [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► taken i'm not saying it had any great [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► impact right I did particularly well [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► with it but i wonder if that state of [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► mind is is different or maybe if I if I [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► work was unique at that time I don't [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► think i was i think we were I was people [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► like me were pretty hungry to go [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► somewhere not to be wrong but to [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► definitely be open to the idea that [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► there was shit tons of stuff that I [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► didn't even know I needed to know and [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► then once i had that I would be in a [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► better position to conduct myself as an [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► adult [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► and I wonder if if if that isn't unique [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► I wonder if that's still as pressing [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► feeling as it is today because it and [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► I'm not trying to be dismissive I'm not [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► trying to be an old man but I do get the [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► sense that there's less especially as [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► the idea of a canon has kind of withered [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► on the vine for better or for worse [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► sometimes for better um you think people [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► still have that same feeling of going [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► like what I'm gonna go out today and [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► learn what I might be wrong about I'm [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► gonna go out today and like figure out [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► all these ways that somebody could set [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► me straight a little bit [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► no i don't know i don't think that that [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► that is the feeling because I don't [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► think that there is a sense that you can [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► be wrong about a thing in the same way i [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► think that that the the idea that we [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► have that you could be wrong that you or [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► or rather that you could be right [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► you could be more right was predicated [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► on an understanding that there was a [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► limited amount of knowledge right there [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► were there was a cannon you went to [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► college and there was that there were [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► still more books than you could possibly [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► read in a lifetime but you could read [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► ten percent of the books and from that [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► ten percent get a pretty good picture of [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► what the common understanding of truth [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► was and I idea and I think that's I [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► think that's completely blown out of the [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► water now right [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► everybody's got their own micro truth [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► and in that sense I think college is [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► over there's no there's no reason it [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► increasingly I feel like colleges is [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► another one of these uh like temp it's a [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► it's a timber business where the already [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► kind of over [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► it's already over and people are still [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► going because of that because of inertia [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► well because I mean I heard a thing on [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► planet money we're talking about the [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► kinds of jobs that have the highest and [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► lowest average incomes so for example if [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► you're going to if you you know what a [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► petroleum engineer can make you can go [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► to college and say well I'm going to go [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► become a petroleum engineer because [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► there's a pretty good chance that for at [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► least the next five to ten years that's [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► still gonna be a pretty good gig and I [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► know I'm going to start in in the six [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► figures the day I step out of that [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► program right that has busy but that has [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► a very what's funny about that as as [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► difficult as that work is as smart as [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► you have to be to do it as as hard as [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► you're gonna have to work to get through [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► that that is oddly similar to the same [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► kind of vocational job that I had [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► vocational training that I was [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► completely not interested in when i was [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► a kid i did not want to fix I didn't [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► want to fix air conditioners I did not [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► want to fix cash registers or not that [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► was not you know work of the mind [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► well yeah I exactly and a petroleum [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► engineer spends a lot of time looking at [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► graphs looking looking at printouts of [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► yeah they're bears they're setting off [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► charges are sending sound waves into the [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► earth and watching it bounced off of [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► stuff uh you know different layers of of [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► schist or or felt bar and then they're [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► really there they're interpreting charts [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► basically in the same way that a that a [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► radio repairman is they've just been [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► taught how to do it [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► it's more complicated than I mean I'm [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► not even sure if it's more complicated [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► than been tuning a crystal set but it [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► doesn't feel like that it doesn't feel [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► like upper campus right all that stuff [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► at the University of Washington there [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► are the lower campus is where all the [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► new buildings are it's where all the [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► excitement's happening it's where all [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► you know you walk into these these [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► buildings that have been for the old [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► buildings that have been rehabilitated [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► and every wall has a little cluster of [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► av adapters and and little hook ups and [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► USB ports and and they're all [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► purpose-built for what people imagine or [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► what people in 2009 imagined the modern [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► classroom was going to be because we [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► were all going to be Power pointing one [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► another and it was you know books were [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► gone and and science science science [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► science and then the upper campus is is [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► getting smaller and smaller and it's [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► this area up there where people are [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► still studying poetry or or like I mean [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► can you think of a more relevant thing [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► then poet than studying poetry but I [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► mean the classic game classic is like [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► you know our history right right but but [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► when I was when I was entering college [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► like those were precisely the things [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► that interested me [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► mhm art history was one of my all-time [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► favorite class and colleges 20th century [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► painting [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► yeah one of one of four possible majors [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► for me right there were only four [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► conceivable ones English philosophy [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► history art and and iím one of a mean I [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► think entering freshman at the [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► University of Washington now I mean they [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► even in 1985 I don't think that many of [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► them measured in the admit majored in [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► the humanities but certainly a lot [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► larger percentage than are doing it now [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► I you know it right there that's the [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► real automotive industry because think [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► about that perfect storm on the one hand [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► I mean I I you know I don't want to [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► overstate this but i can already see [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► that like when I was a kid we had a [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► music class there was a gymnasium as you [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► go to do Jim things there were all these [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► things that were not strictly the [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► academic stuff but I mean you had a [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► music class you learn to a little bit [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► play a little bit of an instrument learn [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► about rhythm and learn about George [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► Gershwin and all that kind of stuff like [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► I you know i don't i don't i'm guessing [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► the Copeland is not in the Common Core [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► it in the way that it was when we were [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► kids [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► so on the one hand you have fewer and [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► fewer people who are getting that [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► everyday and let's be honest we're not [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► just talking about middle-class kids [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► there are a lot of kids that would not [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► learn about that stuff at home they're [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► not going to listen to their parents you [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► know eight tracks of the planets or [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► something like that and then you know [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► but then on the other hand think about [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► where the money comes from at a [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► university not just the tuition but [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► think about the grants think about where [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► that money goes that's not going to be [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► coming from you know the National [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► Endowment for the Humanities probably [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► going to be coming from exxon well and [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► increasingly universities get a lot of [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► money from the patents that they [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► developed ID so I and I don't want to [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► give too much away but but the I just [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► had a very interesting meeting of of [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► this arts commission [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► that i'm on the music commission in the [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► arts commission had a joint meeting and [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► we were talking about the kind of we [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► were we were pie-in-the-sky in because [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► we're the those commissions are doing a [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► really good job in seattle now and [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► people are excited about them and [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► companies are coming around and and the [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► and the the proposal was kinda like all [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► right if we were going to envision a [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► forward-looking arts curriculum for [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► Seattle Public Schools and we felt like [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► we could present it to the world and and [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► take money from people and and actually [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► build it like not just build a [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► curriculum but build up an academy and i [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► just purchased outline if implemented [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► yeah and really build a physical [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► structure that has drinking fountains [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► and and classrooms and is a place that [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► that people go and what would it look [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► like and we went around the table and [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► this is a the these are the people at [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► the Commission are like all the super [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► altruistic mind set [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► nobody's there to personally profit it's [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► it's a it's a lot of work to be on one [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► of those commissions and we're trying to [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► make the city better but every single [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► idea was like well you know what we need [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► we need to you know we need a classroom [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► on like video game design and we need a [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► classroom on like you know graphic art [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► design all this sort of design and and [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► electronic music implementation classes [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► where it's like we got to teach them how [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► to use the tools the pro tools and the [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► this tools and the part tools so that [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► they can go out and like make commerce [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► huh [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► and as it as I wanted it sits one [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► without anybody saying its kind of [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► driven by the idea of a market right the [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► cut the the commerce commerce word never [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► got used it was just that as we because [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► the thing is nobody wants to say well [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► the kids should know what be all every [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► single kid should be forced to learn the [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► clarinet god forbid it right i mean all [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► everybody on the thing wants to be [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► contemporary they want to give stuff [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► they want to have a curriculum that kids [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► are interested in they want to they want [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► to be ahead of the game [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► head of their parents and not yet not [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► force the clarinet on a bunch of kids [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► that are using their iphones to make [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► music but in doing that the whole [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► curriculum was at as initially [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► envisioned was dependent on companies [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► interacting with the schools and and and [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► and sort of like predicated on the idea [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► that we were giving them real skills and [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► not a bunch of like nothing so in order [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► to attract that kind of interest by [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► which we mean corporate money it has to [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► appear uh it has to appear very modern [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► mhm and very practical right so then [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► that way Microsoft maybe we'll come in [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► and give us five thousand zunes or [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► something [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► it's not about bringing somebody with a [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► bassoon every once in awhile huh well [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► and so it's so so it kind of came around [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► the table to me and I was like listen [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► it's not like we have the opportunity to [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► develop an arts curriculum with a [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► capital A arts and I don't think that [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► that is technology dependent i mean i [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► think it's it's important that we do [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► have a room somewhere where where we can [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► learn how to use protools and it's [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► important to have a room somewhere we [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► can use you know learn how to use a [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► photoshop or whatever like tech rooms [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► are important for sure but talking about [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► art is already a mysterious project it's [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► already complicated and difficult hard [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► to even it's hard to even agree on what [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► that means i guess you could argue [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► that's always been the case in [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► twentieth-century but i think it's at [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► more than ever it's very difficult to [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► come up with some version of art that [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► doesn't either feel like dusty or full [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► of charlatans [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► yeah exactly Thank You exactly and yet [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► without it like we can't see that ground [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► to to the dusty history right we can't [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► say like provocative art is just a thing [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► that has been colonized by [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► Russian mobsters and it's all just [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► Damien Hirst garbage now like we have to [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► continue to have a language of art and [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► we have to continue to provide the [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► opportunity for people to challenge us [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► through art whatever mean you know I at [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► and I reflect back on the jesse helms [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► like auntie and I nea write a hearings [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► of the nineteen eighties again fucking [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► nineteen eighties got damaged the worst [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► johnny was the cells bad but like this [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► whole business of like what is art and [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► and watching and actually being in a [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► position sitting at a table where I [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► might have some small voice in [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► determining some aspect of an arts [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► curriculum in seattle and realizing that [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► I'm swimming against the tide even to [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► suggest that the arts are in some way [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► anything but a trade that the arts are [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► something something that transcend [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► training and become a kind of theory and [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► practice that it that requires that you [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► know they're recording some ways [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► requires difficulty and requires that [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► people be trusted and and and really [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► like turning loose right if all they had [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► were clarinets they would make something [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► amazing with clarinets it isn't it [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► doesn't matter that the tools be a [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► avant-garde or that it's at the very [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► least a three legged stool because if [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► you had if think about you know when you [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► have music classes in the past or [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► something like that [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► I mean you could hand somebody I'm like [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► I said clarinet because that's that's [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► that's not the best one to start with [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► but even if it's one of those got off [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► the recorders if you had somebody a [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► recorder and just show them how to play [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► scales and modes and maybe sure that [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► things about rhythm time signatures and [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► that kind of stuff you would that would [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► now that's a pretty fucking dusty class [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► because all you [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► gonna do is play scales you're not going [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► to actually making you music the second [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► leg of the stool has to be well now that [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► we know enough not even everything now [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► that we know enough we can actually play [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► hot cross buns or three blind mice [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► whatever whatever whatever your regional [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► version of that is and it's not going to [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► sound great but now you're making a [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► little tune now wouldn't it be great for [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► the third leg of that stool soldier [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► learn a little bit more about music and [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► how people take those technical skills [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► apply the craft of this song that [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► somebody has put together and then what [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► does that mean context and god dammit [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► that can mean so many different things [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► and I like I look at my kid and like [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► right now she is pretty obsessed with [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► making stuff all the time [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► our house is upside down there's glue [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► everywhere there's glitter glue there's [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► origami paper on fucking everything [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► she's kind of exciting things that all [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► it's all this thought technology glitter [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► glue glue with glitter [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► Oh No and boy does it get everywhere [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► because it because you thought you had [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► trouble getting glitter out of things [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► ask yourself about glitter glue haha [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► it's like spray poo [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► I don't want it but nobody like I see [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► this with her see I really see with her [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► right now where she's teaching herself [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► she likes fancy writing more than [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► regular writing so now she is tracing [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► things in cursive and trying to teach [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► yourself cursive because she just likes [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► the way that it looks she writes letters [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► to herself in cursive and then she [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► illuminates them with with stamps and [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► thinks she's cut out of magazines that [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► you know she I'm not saying it's great [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► art but she walks around with a legal [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► pattern of independent we walk around [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► the park and sheshe not very well but [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► draw stuff all the time and like how [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► long is she gonna have that how long is [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► she going to have that urge to just make [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► move your hand and make stuff up here on [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► a page and the thing is I mean I'm torn [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► on the technique technology issue [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► because i do think of it as a class [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► thing in a lot of ways and the thing is [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► if you have an iPad in the house if you [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► have a Mac in the house like there are [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► plenty of resources even crappy open [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► source apps but you could learn to use [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► logic at the age of ten maybe protools [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► but you could you can learn to do [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► garageband on ipad that's all there [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► I don't get me to track for that [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► necessarily but there are a lot of kids [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► that don't have that and I don't want to [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► just put them on some you know 20 year [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► old pc you know with some busted ass [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► program crashes all the time [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► yeah it's not you think I do think all [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► those things do work together it's and [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► it's not like so many problems at least [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► in my estimation we fall short when we [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► skip get too reductive about trying to [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► focus on one aspect of it jesse helms [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► did that by looking at bullets in a [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► man's ass and saying ergo we should not [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► find art right you're throwing out all [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► these other things that are really [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► valuable but even when we when we teach [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► things like it's you have to understand [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► it starts with the every little kid has [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► a natural urge to make cool stupid stuff [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► so I'm just about race cars sometimes [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► it's about aliens [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► sometimes it's about disney princesses [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► but they have accomplished compulsion to [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► make that stuff what this is this is why [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► I'm terrified of them of Minecraft I [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► don't understand it so Karen minecraft 2 [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► i'm not gonna go booga-booga but i have [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► to run away from it because it just on [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► the basis i'm saying just on the basis [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► of the elementary school and what [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► t-shirts kids wear it seems to become [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► like an entire lifestyle to every is a [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► lot of girls but especially every little [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► boy around six seems to be getting like [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► absorbed into Minecraft yeah and and the [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► language that adults are using the the [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► articles that i read about it in wired [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► and the articles that i read about it [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► everywhere I are all you know really at [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► pains to talk about how creative it is [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► inclined without collaborative and how [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► it requires i mean i read an article not [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► very long ago and I'm sure everybody [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► listen to this podcast also read that [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► said that minecraft actually increases [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► literacy because kids are going on [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► minecraft hack blogs and reading at [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► reading above their reading level [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► because they are interested in figuring [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► out a passionate about it they're [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► passionate about it and their passion is [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► causing them to teach themselves to read [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► on blogs and I read this thing and I was [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► just like seriously really is this where [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► we are is this the resisted the the the [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► point in the conversation where I mean I [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► feel like raising my hand and saying uh [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► maybe the fact that Johnny can't read is [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► is the is the thing to address not not [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► to clapping and praise minecraft for [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► teaching for giving kids a reason to [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► learn to read I'm keeping my powder dry [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► on this [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► one and I'm trying and trying to help [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► you keep your powder dry okay because [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► it's a new thing it's a new thing but [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► like I guess that it always seems like [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► whenever something is new and we're not [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► familiar with it like you and I are not [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► familiar with it we see the worst [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► aspects of it which is the same thing [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► happened when people want to make [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► computer games like why don't you want [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► to go do your math homework why are you [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► why are you doing all these computer [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► games money on a way that kind of his [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► kind of math homework what I'll say is [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► and i I don't I can't have the numbers [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► to say with whether that observation [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► about reading blogs is true what i will [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► say is my daughter is much more [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► interested in reading something if she [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► likes what she's going to read the [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► cancer like in and that started with us [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► reading comics before she could talk to [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► like now she'll sit there with a comic [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► book and I can see her and it's one [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► thing that like I accidentally got right [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► was the comic books because a kids comic [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► book hasn't you can really look a good [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► comic book you know so has great art and [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► you can tell the story of sequential art [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► and you can release us out a basic story [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► and then when you learn a little bit [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► more about reading you can figure out [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► some of the words and then if you don't [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► know the word you can like try to figure [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► out the rest of it in context but let [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► them think about it like you know [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► anything where you really wanted [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► something like you'll apply all of your [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► devilish childish wits to trying to [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► figure out how to get that thing so i [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► don't know i mean i don't think the [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► argument is the same as as often gets [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► used with musical instruments right i [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► sat down at with a piano teacher so from [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► 1977 to 1981 and in the course of the at [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► four years of weekly piano lessons I [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► learned not sane because every week I [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► was supposed to go known and now and [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► then and a techie eventually will play [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► the moonlight sonata poorly [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► yeah I i had no interest in any of you [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► know and and the argument that somebody [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► should have sat down with me and gone [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► like it like here's the basic met here's [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► how to basically play uh this Elton John [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► song [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► ding-ding-ding-ding-ding [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► ding-ding-ding-ding-ding doing and give [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► me a song and and just start there is [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► it's very convincing because it's very [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► convincing to me that that would have [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► been a better method because it's not [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► what happened [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► right and it's easy enough to assume [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► that before yeah right like I didn't [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► like playing the piano and I didn't [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► learn how to play the piano despite [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► throwing tons of artillery at at the [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► problem I never I never took the beach [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► but if I had if I'd been if my teacher [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► had been a long hair had been like [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► here's how to play on John man get with [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► the times i can picture myself going [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► like yeah but in fact the way I learned [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► to play the piano was well actually the [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► way I learned was that I got hired in [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► harvey danger and that's not going to [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► work for everybody but but other great [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► story eventually I came back to the [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► piano on my own and I sat down at it and [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► I started picking the way and it because [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► I had because I because i needed to and [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► now i am I do play the piano but i have [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► no depth or breath at the thing right [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► mi my mom by contrast can sit down and [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► sight read and play [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► she painted up as a kid well yeah [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► because she was taught piano in the in [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► the nineteen thirties or night back in [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► the sticks in Ohio [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► yeah the one where where they where the [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► where the teacher sat on a tall stool [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► and hit you with a rod and I'm not [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► broken foot him I get kicked your broken [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► foot until you learn to play the piano [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► how but my of my mom characterizes [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► herself as having no gift and she can [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► sit down and play Tchaikovsky and I and [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► I look and I'm just like mom that's [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► incredible back that's amazing [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► and she just just misses it with a wave [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► of her hand like well I'm you know I'm a [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► I'm a poor musician and the I just was [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► forced to learn this [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► I was forced to acquire this this habit [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► for this is probably like learning long [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► division it's not anything we go I i [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► really want to be able to work out some [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► of this division I've heard on the radio [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► it sounds like work [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► yeah super and I think she approached it [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► that way and when she sits down she does [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► play that music for pleasure she likes [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► to hear it and she likes to you know [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► feel her fingers kind of figure out the [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► patterns again but she her take on it is [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► very is almost completely absent of art [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► right she just learned a thing up by [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► rote and now she can do it she sees the [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► black dots on a piece of paper and she [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► knows that that means push down this key [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► to my ear [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► it sounds beautiful look I mean I [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► wouldn't i wouldn't say that it was like [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► a like art fall but i mean it's it's [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► like she's playing this beautiful music [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► from the page and if she and I were both [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► invited into a hotel lobby and someone [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► said would someone like to sit at the [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► piano and entertain us like what my mom [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► can do is a thousand times more useful [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► in that situation than what i can do you [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► play commander thinks aloud twice [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► yeah I would sit down and be like yo ya [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► died out back dumped out by ok i got [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► three more stick around everybody and [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► and so I mean honestly the idea that [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► that that that honey attracts more flies [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► than vinegar that the is that the folks [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► saying is that the Bill Clinton saying [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► you catch you catch more flies with [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► honey than vinegar i think is is the [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► folks saying yeah right and so this idea [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► that the way to teach people the best [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► way or the only way to teach people is [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► by um you know appealing to their to [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► their interests [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► it always a I mean what it suggests to [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► me is that that the earlier step of like [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► establishing their interests was super [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► duper important and a lot of times that [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► just comes that windows closed now we [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► are at least it's hard to pry open the [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► way the way that window got established [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► was that mom and dad were like oh yeah [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► just go play with the fucking ipad while [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► mommy and daddy talk or whatever you [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► know like the the initial establishment [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► of the interests was not i mean most [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► people don't take the care that you took [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► to say like I want you to get into this [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► i want to show you this you know i mean [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► most adults that I mean they're talking [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► about their kids talk about the ipad as [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► you know sort of there there little [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► guilty about it like we yeah we give [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► them the ipad for sure usually just to [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► give us some space for some time to [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► think ur so we can speak a paragraph [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► this week to ya and so and that is that [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► is like that is omaha beach in this [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► kid's mind like here's the period is [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► like you for years from now we're going [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► to talk about well the only way we can [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► get Johnny to learn to read is by latch [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► is by putting him on minecraft blogs [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► because that's his interest you know [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► that's where that's where his interests [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► are and it's like I wonder why that's [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► true and and it all seems very passive [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► right it always seems like we're just [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► reacting and all Johnny wants to do is [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► is strums guitar so we're trying to [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► teach him English bye-bye [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► you know having him learn songs in [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► english reading fake books he's reading [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► fake books and I think it's a thread [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► through this that has family on Hugh [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► that has been I'm sure much better [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► articulated by people for centuries but [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► but there does seem to be a basic [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► problem which is and this sounds like [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► the plot of some kind of a kids movie [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► yes yes yes lot of kids we but you know [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► the thing is when you're when you're a [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► grown-up and you gotta look kid and you [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► got all these ideas and like some of the [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► some popular kinds of ideas are like I [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► you need to go um take karate or you [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► need to go go to soccer because there's [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► character things and you'll get exercise [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► and there's all these different things [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► but you know whatever there's a hundred [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► different reasons why you would do [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► something like send your kid to soccer [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► or importantly in this case why you say [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► i want you to take piano lessons now the [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► thing is you as a parent see this in [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► such a vastly different way you see it [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► as like hey maybe this could be the next [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► client gold or you see this as I wish [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► I'd learned how to play piano or any of [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► the dozens of other reasons why it seems [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► like a great idea the kind of kind of [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► force a kid into learning a musical [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► instrument or learning of you know any [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► kind of crafty things going to [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► controlling lessons and the thing is i [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► can I apologize for how obvious it's [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► obvious this is but I think about it a [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► lot [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► the way I describe what might do what my [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► daughter does like my daughter is not [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► sitting around thinking about making [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► great sequential art she just likes the [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► way it feels to drawing a page i think i [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► think she likes smooching her hands [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► around the glue [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► I think she likes the way that feels and [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► i think it's it's important to I don't [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► know how to do this but I feel like it's [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► important to get give opportunities for [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► people to play like that and I think [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► about you see me on your piano i called [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► The Wolverine cord right where I I hold [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► my pinky with my thumb and I play triads [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► with my three middle fingers you see me [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► do this shoot that snaked not damaged [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► mix all right over for chili but like [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► that's how I learned I learned because I [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► wanted to be able to like I just thought [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► that was fun I'd sit around you know it [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► down time you know at church events we [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► hang out and like play try to figure out [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► how to play songs on the piano [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► just cuz it was fun it felt good it's [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► not good you could play loud you could [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► bang on it it was play much more than it [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► was learning i'm not saying i'm in a [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► mini prodigy piano but I see this in my [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► daughter so yeah my brought my acoustic [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► guitar home it the office forever i [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► finally brought it home so we could you [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► know it's fun to just play around [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► I thought a long time ago will claim [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► will play songs and sing together but [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► what she really likes his wife Sonia [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► photo this she likes walking up to it [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► and kind of banging on the strings [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► standing over on the stand like almost [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► like it's a cello and iíve shown her [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► how to do two chords that she can mostly [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► replicate the one she's best that is in [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► a 5 that was the easiest course i could [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► think of in terms of you know the the [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► strings are too hard to press down you [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► know the two middle strings at the 2nd [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► fret and then I should our after that [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► children a minor and she's not great at [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► it but she still stand in front of the [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► guitar facing the guitar and with the [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► totally wrong finger push down mostly [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► the right places right on the front [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► which drives me crazy because it buzzes [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► but she sits there and she plays these [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► little chords really shitty and then she [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► goes into this crazy d Boone thing where [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► she just keeps going up and down and [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► back and you know what it's like to be a [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► little kid playing with a guitar and I'm [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► put it out of my mind like this katar [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► the strings are going to break the [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► guitar my break [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► she has so much fun just banging around [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► on that and I don't know if that'll [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► invention ever [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► Jeff utility i was thinking more like [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► Stanley Stanley Clarke still join whom I [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► think enough Stanley Clark Jordan like [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► Jordan yeah this married name [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► yeah you said teacher just teach you [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► some tips start teaching songs like you [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► know it's it doesn't just drawn persuade [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► a button boom [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► well I think what you're getting at is [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► this is this is this crucial thing [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► justin is not about me I'm trying to [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► remember like how fun it is just fuck [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► around and have nobody sitting there [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► correcting you and just if she wants to [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► bang around on that guitar like go ahead [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► go nuts and sometimes i will say hey you [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► want to see the other court you want to [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► so think maybe I'll get a ratard for a [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► birthday I don't know she didn't love [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► the piano we got her but she's gonna [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► play and it'll be fun and it's not going [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► to be pressure for her to get back up [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► segovia by the time she's aight i think [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► it's more and I think it's more probably [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► more fun for her to play on Dad's guitar [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► than to have one of her own but like I a [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► big part of this is this can take it [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► dovetails with this this idea that [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► there's nothing new Under the Sun but [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► that that so much of so much of making [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► art is [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► reinventing the wheel and you can sit [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► there and and shape their little hands [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► and and and teach teach teach teach [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► teach like like art is a thing that can [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► be known and I think that that is in a [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► way a really important part of the [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► process but then there's that other [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► thing which is at a certain point and a [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► and I i think the jury's out where that [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► point is but you have to reinvent it [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► somehow you have to be able to act as [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► though as though it's like beyond [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► thunderdome and you are a tribe of kids [TS]

00:56:01 ◼   ► living it in a in a lucky little valley [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► that's separated by a great desert [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► uh-huh and it is the dying time and the [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► and you are you are inventing your [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► culture with just the faintest memory of [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► what the what came before you write that [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► it has to feel like your own even if [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► it's your own cover of The Kinks there [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► has to be something about it i mean i [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► don't that's exactly what you're saying [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► but like I think part of it is that it [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► really feels like some kind of [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► transplanted culture when you try to to [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► pop this culture into a kid like an [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► Atari cartridge and then expect them to [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► go all da bak or something like yeah you [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► can you can see the kids in in [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► rock-and-roll the kids in their twenties [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► now whose parents put them in Nirvana [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► t-shirts when they were three years old [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► 18 years ago right i mean you can kind [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► of see them you see them even i'm sure a [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► like they're there are a couple of kids [TS]

00:57:03 ◼   ► and my daughter's preschool who have a [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► moment's if you will you know like their [TS]

00:57:10 ◼   ► parents are trying to push them toward [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► being cool from a very young age in the [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► hopes i think that being that if they [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► are cool that'll that they won't have a [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► heartbreaker they won't have problems [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► growing up [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► like the solution the solution to so [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► many problems is to just be one of the [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► cool ones and I mean and that is that's [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► that's that's painful and true well yeah [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► well put [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► it's so different from my approach which [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► is to say you are going to be a nerd i'm [TS]

00:57:48 ◼   ► going to force you to be one it's going [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► to suck and through that through that [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► heart that heart those many many hard [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► years you're gonna grow up to really [TS]

00:57:59 ◼   ► appreciate um how how fun it is to be an [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► adult and my name's see the pain not [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► have your dad not have your dad forcing [TS]

00:58:09 ◼   ► you to take your letter you're helping [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► her understand that she will be an [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► outsider [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► yeah right and that because you know [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► being an outsider [TS]

00:58:17 ◼   ► well I mean ultimately like she's going [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► to decide right and and she's already [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► decided that what she's gonna be as a [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► princess but and that's wonderful [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► because a my understanding is they make [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► a lot of money [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► ok let's get down the princess cut but [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► that but watching I'm house facebook [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► came through my feed the other day I [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► somehow got on facebook again found the [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► key under your mat I'm really trying to [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► curate my feet I'm not reading the news [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► on twitter anymore i read iced I I [TS]

00:58:47 ◼   ► signed on to the internet the other day [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► and then and I was like you know what [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► I'm you like that in front of the [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► internet but i'm gonna go over he went [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► down to the cold room open the cage went [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► in putting your key i'm gonna go over to [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► Twitter and see and I'm you know what [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► i'm gonna do i'm going to go over to [TS]

00:59:07 ◼   ► Twitter i'm going to read the news i [TS]

00:59:09 ◼   ► haven't done it in a couple of weeks I'm [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► gonna just going to read my news feed [TS]

00:59:12 ◼   ► and see what I come up with and I got [TS]

00:59:15 ◼   ► over there and i started reading and I i [TS]

00:59:18 ◼   ► read a couple of things about the [TS]

00:59:20 ◼   ► Ukraine that were interesting and I saw [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► a couple of things you know the [TS]

00:59:24 ◼   ► about this and that I thought were yeah [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► that's pretty interesting and then I [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► clicked on a retweet of somebody's and I [TS]

00:59:34 ◼   ► read it somebody's blog post and I was [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► like wow okay and that blog post was in [TS]

00:59:38 ◼   ► response to another blog post about that [TS]

00:59:40 ◼   ► they felt about the dave chappelle i [TS]

00:59:42 ◼   ► read that last night that was a good [TS]

00:59:44 ◼   ► luck you reach it with it and that I [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► thought that that person's writing was [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► really great that both pieces were were [TS]

00:59:50 ◼   ► very nuanced that yeah it was it was a [TS]

00:59:53 ◼   ► fascinating conversation and gutsy gutsy [TS]

00:59:55 ◼   ► anak but it got into a little bit of you [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► know more my stomach was starting to get [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► butterflies [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► butterflies [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► because I was like well I don't know [TS]

01:00:01 ◼   ► instead I don't I don't have a comment [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► here I'm just I'm just just reading the [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► news just reasons in your head you can [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► just imagine the thousand different kind [TS]

01:00:10 ◼   ► of like intellectual bumfights there [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► that you like just watch too drunk I [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► said each other that's exactly right i [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► mean but like I just like this just [TS]

01:00:19 ◼   ► people representing the absolute worst [TS]

01:00:22 ◼   ► yeah point of view on either side of [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► this I just gonna be in each other with [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► sticks [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► I very studiously did not read the [TS]

01:00:29 ◼   ► comments on either blog you know I [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► didn't want to go down i just read the i [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► just read the blog didn't see any [TS]

01:00:35 ◼   ► reaction gifs just didn't didn't get did [TS]

01:00:37 ◼   ► you know just stay away from it stand [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► away from it and then I and then I'm so [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► I'm back up to the surface of Twitter [TS]

01:00:44 ◼   ► and i'm reading along and and then [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► there's and Hodgman has a little a link [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► to his tumblr and i click on it and it [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► is a graph of the all the John's that [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► have influenced each other and all the [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► John's that are that make a very [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► interesting little cluster of john hope [TS]

01:01:06 ◼   ► that was a first draft and it said [TS]

01:01:09 ◼   ► Flansburg lanell huh [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► Stuart attachment called Najman Colton [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► and I'm just innocently looking at the [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► fucking news for two seconds and i click [TS]

01:01:23 ◼   ► on a friend's link which was a link that [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► he was that was just somebody made and [TS]

01:01:29 ◼   ► he was real tweeting it i'm sure he [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► didn't do that and and now I've only [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► been on the news side of this thing for [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► for honestly two minutes and I feel bad [TS]

01:01:42 ◼   ► I've seen a thing that made me feel bad [TS]

01:01:44 ◼   ► right and i just closed it all down was [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► just like why did I go and read the news [TS]

01:01:49 ◼   ► on Twitter I am trying to I'm trying to [TS]

01:01:53 ◼   ► not have those feelings and under the [TS]

01:01:56 ◼   ► Internet provides so many opportunities [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► hell did well you did exactly what you [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► should do you sound like you came into [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► it thinking maybe it'll be different [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► maybe that's why i'm away this is a fun [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► thing [TS]

01:02:06 ◼   ► yep i'm gonna go over there I'm gonna [TS]

01:02:07 ◼   ► read some stuff I'm going to learn about [TS]

01:02:08 ◼   ► the news i'm going to see people making [TS]

01:02:10 ◼   ► things [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► and so but anyway as I closed down [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► twitter i went over to facebook i had [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► not had enough i had not had enough [TS]

01:02:20 ◼   ► Marilyn I went to facebook and I and for [TS]

01:02:24 ◼   ► whatever reason the facebook like [TS]

01:02:26 ◼   ► alchemy of just like Oh what would you [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► like to see today I mean they're like [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► the room temperature deserted you're on [TS]

01:02:32 ◼   ► there just like would you like some flan [TS]

01:02:36 ◼   ► that's the one kind of dessert we have [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► no no that's not true we have flan and [TS]

01:02:40 ◼   ► we have a new scale and surprising thing [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► so one surprising thing you need to know [TS]

01:02:45 ◼   ► today about flan and I get over there [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► and and the person's website that I go [TS]

01:02:52 ◼   ► to the third the person's facebook page [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► that I go to see is a guy I haven't [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► thought of in years [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► some guy went to high school with who uh [TS]

01:03:00 ◼   ► he was a bro when we were in high school [TS]

01:03:03 ◼   ► and I'm deposited on his facebook page [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► and he is a bro now he's an Alaska bro [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► he has a he he's a 45 year old man with [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► a goatee not a mustache either like just [TS]

01:03:18 ◼   ► a chin goatee and his his his facebook [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► pages just picture after picture of him [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► wakeboarding and of him doing some more [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► wakeboarding and other kind of you know [TS]

01:03:31 ◼   ► him holding a giant salmon and him you [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► know with his arm around his like [TS]

01:03:37 ◼   ► embarrassingly much younger wife and [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► then him with his two adorable little [TS]

01:03:43 ◼   ► like kindergarten age kids both of whom [TS]

01:03:47 ◼   ► have super cool dude haircuts and his [TS]

01:03:51 ◼   ► dad had a permanent sneer on all through [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► high school and and college you know [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► like ass like the kind of smug sneer of [TS]

01:03:59 ◼   ► somebody that that had been born with [TS]

01:04:02 ◼   ► money and a little bit of a pan he's [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► sort of a pan man but but much more but [TS]

01:04:07 ◼   ► like in Alaska that version [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► he's he's grown into being a pan man he [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► was a skinny kid now he's kind of us at [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► least it looks much more like a pan guy [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► but whatever his job is I don't know [TS]

01:04:19 ◼   ► it's um it's probably something in the [TS]

01:04:22 ◼   ► financial sector or maybe he sells [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► bulldozers or something he's doing well [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► he's successful guy and every aspect of [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► his life looks amazing [TS]

01:04:33 ◼   ► if you're if you are judging your adult [TS]

01:04:38 ◼   ► life on the strength of the aesthetics [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► of a bones brigade VHS tape from 1984 [TS]

01:04:44 ◼   ► right like he's the groan is a grown-up [TS]