Roderick on the Line

Ep. 127: "Fermi in a Van"


  this episode of Robert on the line is [TS]

  sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one [TS]

  platform that makes it fast and easy to [TS]

  create your own professional website [TS]

  portfolio and online store for your free [TS]

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  buy please visit and the [TS]

  very special offer code supertrain at [TS]

  checkout better web starts with your [TS]

  website [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello hey John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

  pretty good [TS]

  what's the matter where they man John [TS]

  huh oh no things are good things are [TS]

  good you know is one of those it's just [TS]

  one of those like how good can things be [TS]

  you know what I mean yeah how good can [TS]

  they be really yeah you know it's a [TS]

  common there's a comment coming there's [TS]

  a meat-eor giant meteor gonna wipe us [TS]

  out [TS]

  I didn't know about this yeah how good [TS]

  can we feel that a BuzzFeed thinks I [TS]

  should catch up on that day what if you [TS]

  were on reddit you would know I you [TS]

  gotta get off the Red John I've never [TS]

  been on reddit [TS]

  oh I'm follow a tumblr site that puts up [TS]

  pictures of cute animals from that site [TS]

  but that's about it [TS]

  yeah every once in a while someone says [TS]

  I should do an ama from reddit I thought [TS]

  you were gonna do what i thought i saw [TS]

  you scheduled for one of those i don't [TS]

  think i ever was but in any case I I [TS]

  don't understand the interface i look at [TS]

  reddit and it looks like it's you know [TS]

  it looks like an organizational chart [TS]

  yeah or like a like an outline for a [TS]

  term paper [TS]

  yeah it's gonna get a tree format at [TS]

  reformat right and and you know what [TS]

  when i first got on the internet 1990 [TS]

  art 7mm and I would go on the newsgroups [TS]

  or rather I would go to the internet i [TS]

  would go to a place where people were on [TS]

  the internet and I would look over their [TS]

  shoulder while they were on the news [TS]

  groups and i would say why are you doing [TS]

  this [TS]

  what what is this about and they were [TS]

  like all see you go over here and [TS]

  there's a guy that tells you how to [TS]

  build a ham radio [TS]

  I'm like I mean yeah but I did didn't it [TS]

  never appealed to me [TS]

  partly because i didn't like the didn't [TS]

  like the way that it looked like the way [TS]

  it was shaped and read it's like that [TS]

  for me [TS]

  yeah i mean i think in some ways and [TS]

  this is really reductive but I i think i [TS]

  sometimes feel like you can break it [TS]

  down into these two general levels of [TS]

  interest and anything about a site like [TS]

  metafilter which is similar in some ways [TS]

  even metafilter like some percent of the [TS]

  time [TS]

  I'm most interested in what people have [TS]

  to say about the link but a lot of times [TS]

  I'm really most interested in the link [TS]

  right and and I think the thing that [TS]

  makes the internet hard for me to [TS]

  understand sometimes is that there are a [TS]

  lot of people who are weary more [TS]

  interested in the comments and the link [TS]

  that's not a judgment but then it is a [TS]

  real difference in some ways that they [TS]

  see the link as the jumping-off point [TS]

  for providing opinion and having witty [TS]

  repartee right now and i had to come [TS]

  tend to be more interested in ruminating [TS]

  on the link [TS]

  yes especially by myself in in solitude [TS]

  agreed and agreed [TS]

  yeah i was thinking as I loaded up my [TS]

  briefcase today to come down here in my [TS]

  briefcase briefcase i have that was [TS]

  loading up my briefcase i was thinking [TS]

  that in my dad's time there is no my dad [TS]

  put nothing electrical in his briefcase [TS]

  with the exception perhaps of a micro [TS]

  cassette recorder for a to dictate right [TS]

  but there were no there's no cabling of [TS]

  any kind in my dad's briefcase you [TS]

  didn't have like he had to plug anything [TS]

  in when he got to work or nothing and [TS]

  nothing ever got plugged in when my dad [TS]

  was at an airport he never plugged a [TS]

  single thing in in his life and as I am [TS]

  as I'm loading up my briefcase just to [TS]

  come down here to talk to you and I'm [TS]

  like oh I gotta get that other cable and [TS]

  I go over and I get a cable and I stick [TS]

  it in a so-called right and I need that [TS]

  cable for that other thing and I go get [TS]

  that cable and pretty soon you know your [TS]

  briefcases just like it's just a [TS]

  spaghetti of of different wires the [TS]

  x-rated it was like a bomb yeah right [TS]

  and and and and it caused me to think [TS]

  that up until probably about I would say [TS]

  into the nineties if your if your work [TS]

  entailed that you were using electrical [TS]

  gizmos it was a ninety-nine percent [TS]

  chance that you were a technician that [TS]

  you were either you're a blue-collar [TS]

  person and you had a briefcase full of [TS]

  gizmos because your job involved you [TS]

  doing some [TS]

  monitoring of some HVAC equipment right [TS]

  and now it is completely flipped and [TS]

  every everybody is carrying around [TS]

  electronic equipment all the time you [TS]

  are measured in fact your status is [TS]

  measured by how much is mala g you have [TS]

  in your bag not how little my dad never [TS]

  had a single and no one he knew had a [TS]

  single gizmo right yeah yeah I get what [TS]

  you're saying and it's funny because [TS]

  like as much as you get like a new [TS]

  laptop bag or a new briefcase in your [TS]

  case you know if you simply adapted to [TS]

  that because when you when you're [TS]

  describing somebody who dealt with gives [TS]

  us for living not thinking about like a [TS]

  phone repair person yeah right he had a [TS]

  hardshell case he had a goddamn van [TS]

  yeah starting to think I don't need a [TS]

  backpack i need of an he had a van with [TS]

  a ladder on the top right yeah and and [TS]

  it's ended it [TS]

  you know it's good the culture could [TS]

  have gone a lot of different ways we [TS]

  could have gone it's like that are that [TS]

  famous our crumb drawing of of of [TS]

  progress right and first it's horse [TS]

  drawn carriage and then it's a [TS]

  locomotive and then it's phone wires and [TS]

  and el Caminos and more and more the [TS]

  landscape is filled up with phone wires [TS]

  in encroaching technology and mr. the [TS]

  sort of little or lesser known coda to [TS]

  that drawing were that his three [TS]

  possible versions of the future and one [TS]

  of them was like hover cars and electric [TS]

  and and serve Jetsons houses and one of [TS]

  them was a completely blown out [TS]

  landscape of just like dystopia and then [TS]

  obviously the one that he / this is hard [TS]

  it's hard for me to reconcile this with [TS]

  what I know about our crumb but the [TS]

  third option of his three options was a [TS]

  kind of ecouture Pia of years it's [TS]

  and tall forest and people you know a [TS]

  community of people living in a natural [TS]

  hippie style it's an option it's an [TS]

  option it but it seemed to me that it [TS]

  seems like our chrome would have he [TS]

  would have desired that the future [TS]

  looked like everyone wearing spats and [TS]

  straw boaters and playing the banjo [TS]

  actually how the future turned out haha [TS]

  we are living in an R crumb dream future [TS]

  that even he didn't envision didn't [TS]

  carry their pictures around with them [TS]

  yeah I got picked on a lot by so yeah I [TS]

  but i wonder i mean we went this way [TS]

  IRA do you remember the osborne computer [TS]

  I i know of it i have my my best friend [TS]

  in high school his father was an early [TS]

  adopter and he owned an oz burn which [TS]

  was the first briefcase computer that [TS]

  was the size of it was this it was [TS]

  bigger than a been at our computer right [TS]

  bigger than what we would call a [TS]

  necessary I'm what would you call that [TS]

  yeah I know what you mean like it's [TS]

  bigger than a desktop computer it's it's [TS]

  it's not not at all portable but much [TS]

  smaller than the mainframe or mini [TS]

  computers that we thought of as being a [TS]

  computer at the time [TS]

  yeah and the entire screen was about the [TS]

  size of an iphone to disk drives and [TS]

  today he actually brought my friend [TS]

  brought that down to our they brought it [TS]

  over to my house sometimes and you know [TS]

  plate we played games on the osburn [TS]

  and to think that that is in a museum [TS]

  now [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  no that's that's it is haha episode of [TS]

  rock on the line is once again sponsored [TS]

  by our very good friends at Squarespace [TS]

  the only one platform that makes it fast [TS]

  and easy to create your own professional [TS]

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  program get a free trial plus ten [TS]

  percent of any package they choose by [TS]

  using the very special offer code [TS]

  supertrain at checkout our thanks to [TS]

  squarespace for supporting rod on the [TS]

  line we could not do it without this [TS]

  know there are a lot of ways I could go [TS]

  with that but I got tired of hearing [TS]

  myself talk haha i am you know what I [TS]

  notice is you know everybody everybody i [TS]

  know but but for probably all kinds of [TS]

  obvious reasons most people i know have [TS]

  a smartphone of some kind you got an [TS]

  iphone android phone you got to whatever [TS]

  phone but like in my neighborhood which [TS]

  is mostly you know people from Asia lot [TS]

  of chinese people on home so many people [TS]

  still have like a clamshell like a flip [TS]

  phone feature phone interested in it i [TS]

  mean that the interesting thing about [TS]

  that is though I mean [TS]

  see now I'm gonna get our mom back again [TS]

  but like the funny thing is like we get [TS]

  these I get a new phone every what two [TS]

  years three or something like that you [TS]

  know and as you've noted you got to get [TS]

  there the reckon the right charging [TS]

  cables and you get all synced up and [TS]

  it's it's a weird thing though that like [TS]

  these folks have the same roughly the [TS]

  same phone that I had before I got an [TS]

  iphone so like they've got like a mid [TS]

  2000s level phone it looks like it's [TS]

  been at the bottom of a fish tank for [TS]

  six yrs a razor [TS]

  oh yeah well in a lot of cases like the [TS]

  samsung phones man you could hammer [TS]

  nails with those things those old nokia [TS]

  phones like their another really strong [TS]

  and I guess those bands still work if [TS]

  you need to have a phone and that's what [TS]

  people use it for today their [TS]

  interaction is they they have that phone [TS]

  for phone things and they talk about it [TS]

  sometimes and then close it up and put [TS]

  their pocket and they said I'm you act [TS]

  like they're asleep [TS]

  it's a thing but you know and I don't [TS]

  really feel like assistant assistant [TS]

  insightful as your other more and i [TS]

  guess haha i remember that was a time [TS]

  when that I am [TS]

  why do we need more than three TV [TS]

  channels [TS]

  what's the deal haha you got for you got [TS]

  three VHF channel he had to a UHF [TS]

  channels wait what-what-what are good [TS]

  people do you could only watch one at a [TS]

  time [TS]

  it's a matter but I you know but you [TS]

  know that the one thing I will say [TS]

  though is that I i think that this might [TS]

  come out of certainly comes out of the [TS]

  rapid pace of technology and it comes [TS]

  out of my still even though i'm getting [TS]

  to be older and I'm not as interested in [TS]

  New nerdy stuff by a long shot [TS]

  as I was even five years ago even now [TS]

  still I find myself like i don't i don't [TS]

  feel like things have gotten that much [TS]

  easier because by the time they're all [TS]

  the bugs have been worked out of you [TS]

  know whatever iOS or standard whatever [TS]

  by the time I'm getting the hang of that [TS]

  there's a new one and then I sit on that [TS]

  for a while are my backup still working [TS]

  is this thing still oh now like my wife [TS]

  my wife and it for the last three years [TS]

  had 14 copies of every contact my wife [TS]

  my wife [TS]

  no I here's the thing with my wife she's [TS]

  got a but I've got in there and I have [TS]

  like once a year I go in and I [TS]

  definitively decided I actually have a [TS]

  built-in purpose [TS]

  program then we'll help me locate and [TS]

  delete but like her contacts now are so [TS]

  screwed up that she doesn't like she [TS]

  mostly has 14 copies of the same contact [TS]

  so she has something like 5000 contacts [TS]

  or in some cases i guess maybe this app [TS]

  got it wrong and now in some cases [TS]

  you'll have a contact that has 35 email [TS]

  addresses from different people [TS]

  associated with me and so now i'm just [TS]

  to the point where I open that up and i [TS]

  look at it and go you know what I should [TS]

  just burn it down if you never added [TS]

  from the whole yeah I want you to take [TS]

  this piece of paper write down the the [TS]

  note phone numbers and email addresses [TS]

  of five people that you really need and [TS]

  let's start over [TS]

  oh no you know the thing to do is to of [TS]

  course to send it above a bulk email out [TS]

  to everyone in your contact list i sent [TS]

  out a blast saying reply to this with [TS]

  your with your contact information [TS]

  because I dropped my phone or whatever [TS]

  right [TS]

  reply yes men and then only the people [TS]

  that reply [TS]

  those are those are your only true [TS]

  friends like those notes I get from [TS]

  people that I haven't even have enough [TS]

  that i haven't haven't talked to them in [TS]

  15 years we have a lot of them in 15 [TS]

  years and maybe had one interaction with [TS]

  them look during the Clinton [TS]

  administration and I still every year to [TS]

  get an email from them with their [TS]

  updated contact deets [TS]

  yeah yeah here here's a my new my new [TS]

  email address [TS]

  yeah like your new email address who [TS]

  changes email addresses [TS]

  yeah I don't know as the market i'm john [TS]

  time marches on [TS]

  I feel like I I've touched on this over [TS]

  the over the years in talking to you but [TS]

  but but they're the but i want to say it [TS]

  again which it there was naught which is [TS]

  that that uh sort of sort of elaborate [TS]

  on what i was saying a minute ago that [TS]

  the way we use the word tech and we [TS]

  talked about tech now like it is a like [TS]

  it's kind of a new realm right like tech [TS]

  the tech economy is we think of tech as [TS]

  a as a thing that's only been around for [TS]

  15 years [TS]

  and it can be virtually anything it can [TS]

  mean television set-top boxes it could [TS]

  be an app on your iPhone it could be it [TS]

  could be all these different things and [TS]

  it's like we suddenly invented a way to [TS]

  use technology that we never had before [TS]

  yeah yeah and-and-and like technology [TS]

  somehow didn't exist before but but in [TS]

  fact like over the course of that means [TS]

  just since the Industrial Revolution [TS]

  there have been innumerable periods [TS]

  where where the culture at the time was [TS]

  fascinated by the new technology right [TS]

  everybody you know the cotton gin or the [TS]

  head or the Machine rolled cigarette or [TS]

  the or the automobile for Christ's sake [TS]

  and the technology of the moment is [TS]

  super fascinating to people and seems [TS]

  like it's revolutionized the way the [TS]

  people conduct their lives and then the [TS]

  the kind of the dust settles and that [TS]

  technology becomes commonplace and [TS]

  people stop talking about it right they [TS]

  go back to the the more important or [TS]

  more interesting business of talking [TS]

  about ideas or of talking about what I [TS]

  mean this is politics even and we're [TS]

  living in this this kind of extended [TS]

  period where we're talking about tack [TS]

  and interacting with tech as though that [TS]

  isn't that is in itself culture and oh I [TS]

  get what I mean like yeah it's like in [TS]

  the in the late seventies early eighties [TS]

  I think newspaper started realizing that [TS]

  people were dying and so they started [TS]

  having a section in the paper called [TS]

  health and suddenly for the first time [TS]

  you started seeing stuff about whatever [TS]

  peach pits of curing cancer or whatever [TS]

  and that became like a hot thing and now [TS]

  today it's not unusual to see a section [TS]

  anywhere of something called tech [TS]

  because people are using text to look at [TS]

  Tech and texts its own thing [TS]

  Tech is its own thing and and in a way [TS]

  it certainly in the in the little ghetto [TS]

  that we live in [TS]

  like tech is the topic and and when I [TS]

  was younger or I mean one but when we [TS]

  used to prognosticate about tech it was [TS]

  always that tech was going to facilitate [TS]

  the conversation tech was going to you [TS]

  know and that is part of the [TS]

  conversation we're having now that tech [TS]

  is just starting a conversation about [TS]

  tech yeah right and i couldn't be less [TS]

  interested / overtime an ocular point of [TS]

  view john glenn podcast talk about [TS]

  ah nothing this up but uh but you know [TS]

  you know what I'm saying like I do i do [TS]

  I see lasting I keep waiting for tech to [TS]

  stop being the topic and for that [TS]

  because I do feel like ultimately it is [TS]

  but it lowers the quality of the [TS]

  dialogue I'm I'm i feel like i am down [TS]

  not thats that's a maybe maybe a [TS]

  disparaging way to put it but i feel [TS]

  like i am i am talking to a bunch of [TS]

  people with the cables in their vans all [TS]

  the time but that those people are are [TS]

  presenting themselves and imagine [TS]

  themselves to be part of the like the [TS]

  the real like think thinking level and [TS]

  repeat their firm in a van [TS]

  yeah probably for me in a van with the [TS]

  ladder on the top 500 index in peace [TS]

  better scary for me man with the ladder [TS]

  on top what I was terrified of I had [TS]

  this terrible a realization the other [TS]

  day that you know you and I both have [TS]

  prepared our long lives to be uh [TS]

  prognosticator and then thinkers and [TS]

  hosts and toasters and you know like we [TS]

  imagined when we were young that there [TS]

  was a very important job [TS]

  in the world which was hard to get and [TS]

  really a prize when you got it which was [TS]

  that you were a person with some [TS]

  thoughts about things that people wanted [TS]

  to hear [TS]

  uh-huh and you were the you were the [TS]

  voice are you were the three were the [TS]

  the thinker the public person the [TS]

  citizen artist and I have this sort of [TS]

  terrible moment when I I was reflecting [TS]

  back on the eighties when as you do [TS]

  yeah that's the terrible nothing more [TS]

  from this terrible moment when I I i [TS]

  remember the Spotted Owl controversy [TS]

  here in the northwest and trying to [TS]

  tease out all the different sides of it [TS]

  when when it was really fun it embroiled [TS]

  here and realizing that but the answer [TS]

  was that it wasn't possible to save all [TS]

  the lumberjack jobs and the Lumberjacks [TS]

  were protesting on the streets of [TS]

  packwood or wherever the hell they lived [TS]

  and they were saying like we're losing [TS]

  our jobs to this to this bird and two [TS]

  and what it really was was that we were [TS]

  shipping all of their work all their [TS]

  jobs / 22 Asia we're putting the raw [TS]

  logs on boats and sending them to Asia [TS]

  rather than milling them here but the [TS]

  owl was a scapegoat but they were [TS]

  marching and saying like we are losing [TS]

  our jobs and and that they presented it [TS]

  as this kind of like I mean we can't [TS]

  lose our jobs so you have to find [TS]

  another solution other than that we that [TS]

  we stop cutting down trees or that would [TS]

  you know and i remember having that the [TS]

  insight that like oh these are these [TS]

  jobs are gone that these there are there [TS]

  won't be these lumberjack trolox no [TS]

  amount of protesting will change the [TS]

  reality of that [TS]

  yeah the the sad truth and the and the [TS]

  truth that no politician kind of has the [TS]

  guts to stand up and say is like no it's [TS]

  already happened [TS]

  and it was the same with the autoworkers [TS]

  in detroit right about the same time [TS]

  like hey we're losing our jobs and these [TS]

  are good union jobs that were paying a [TS]

  hundred and fifty thousand dollars a [TS]

  year for us to lean on a broom and smoke [TS]

  cigarettes and we can't lose these jobs [TS]

  and I was like well yeah in fact they're [TS]

  there already gone and you made a bad [TS]

  choice by leaving on a broom and smoking [TS]

  a cigarette and it kind of worked for a [TS]

  while but now it's over and and and [TS]

  watching those groups of workers have [TS]

  the slow dreadful realization that that [TS]

  they're put it there wasn't going to be [TS]

  it wasn't just a matter of going over [TS]

  and getting another job across the [TS]

  street it was that the whole thing was [TS]

  done and the ones that could adapt did [TS]

  and the ones that couldn't are on Social [TS]

  Security right now and yelling about [TS]

  obama but that this realization that you [TS]

  and I maybe have prepared our whole [TS]

  lives imagining that what we do and what [TS]

  we can do was some kind of rare talent [TS]

  that that the world desperately craved [TS]

  and now we have arrived at precisely the [TS]

  moment when it is hardest which is to [TS]

  say middle-aged and I just I'm realizing [TS]

  like it maybe maybe our jobs have been [TS]

  are starting to be outsourced in the [TS]

  sense that every teenager has an opinion [TS]

  and the values that right values it [TS]

  equally with ours and it's and it's know [TS]

  and they're better and they're better at [TS]

  engaging with the people who are [TS]

  primarily there to make comments who are [TS]

  going to make a lot do a lot of the [TS]

  heavy lifting for them right [TS]

  well in back to that previous thing [TS]

  there's nothing in one of the many lost [TS]

  episodes that people here we talked [TS]

  about college I don't remember when it [TS]

  was when we talk sometime ago you and I [TS]

  offline about college and and it's and [TS]

  and events in particular in the context [TS]

  of college being something that was I we [TS]

  tell me if I'm putting this [TS]

  right but that for both of us and maybe [TS]

  for our generation i guess or for you [TS]

  know II similar middle-class white kids [TS]

  college was something that was just you [TS]

  were gonna go to college and every [TS]

  decision that you made on the way to go [TS]

  into college was primarily an [TS]

  opportunity to screw up your chance to [TS]

  go to college [TS]

  it wasn't it wasn't something and again [TS]

  i'm sorry there's a bit of that we could [TS]

  but that but no seriously though that [TS]

  there was that we both I think we both [TS]

  shared that sense that like every every [TS]

  known or unknown thing that was on the [TS]

  path for us was well for one thing on [TS]

  one path here at that path is you're [TS]

  gonna fucking go to college right [TS]

  inexorable march so you going out and [TS]

  drinking that beer it's not just about [TS]

  you breaking a rule about drinking a [TS]

  beer when you're underage [TS]

  it's about the fact that could really [TS]

  screw up your with your one opportunity [TS]

  to be something nowadays and so the [TS]

  thing that in thinking about them will [TS]

  go a little bit John Rother care but in [TS]

  talking about what you're saying here i [TS]

  wonder if one thing we lose or are are [TS]

  losing or have lost in some ways i mean [TS]

  i think that many people that are really [TS]

  excited to go to college for the sake of [TS]

  going to college I just it feels it's [TS]

  become so wrote and so costly and so i [TS]

  don't know i mean there's a part of me [TS]

  that like once I was in college I was [TS]

  really into it because here's the thing [TS]

  yes on some level I thought of myself as [TS]

  a future Dick Cavett but i also was [TS]

  really open to the idea that there was [TS]

  so much stuff that I knew the name of [TS]

  but I didn't know anything about it and [TS]

  I was really open the idea of something [TS]

  okay well you have you talked to your [TS]

  butt a little bit about Shakespeare here [TS]

  how about you read some of those you've [TS]

  talked about these these novels in these [TS]

  great works these classics well now [TS]

  you're going to read those you're gonna [TS]

  go see all these paintings that have [TS]

  been named check and we're going to talk [TS]

  about them in context so there's at [TS]

  least some part of me that was really [TS]

  open to being a vessel for a while and [TS]

  taken i'm not saying it had any great [TS]

  impact right I did particularly well [TS]

  with it but i wonder if that state of [TS]

  mind is is different or maybe if I if I [TS]

  work was unique at that time I don't [TS]

  think i was i think we were I was people [TS]

  like me were pretty hungry to go [TS]

  somewhere not to be wrong but to [TS]

  definitely be open to the idea that [TS]

  there was shit tons of stuff that I [TS]

  didn't even know I needed to know and [TS]

  then once i had that I would be in a [TS]

  better position to conduct myself as an [TS]

  adult [TS]

  and I wonder if if if that isn't unique [TS]

  I wonder if that's still as pressing [TS]

  feeling as it is today because it and [TS]

  I'm not trying to be dismissive I'm not [TS]

  trying to be an old man but I do get the [TS]

  sense that there's less especially as [TS]

  the idea of a canon has kind of withered [TS]

  on the vine for better or for worse [TS]

  sometimes for better um you think people [TS]

  still have that same feeling of going [TS]

  like what I'm gonna go out today and [TS]

  learn what I might be wrong about I'm [TS]

  gonna go out today and like figure out [TS]

  all these ways that somebody could set [TS]

  me straight a little bit [TS]

  no i don't know i don't think that that [TS]

  that is the feeling because I don't [TS]

  think that there is a sense that you can [TS]

  be wrong about a thing in the same way i [TS]

  think that that the the idea that we [TS]

  have that you could be wrong that you or [TS]

  or rather that you could be right [TS]

  you could be more right was predicated [TS]

  on an understanding that there was a [TS]

  limited amount of knowledge right there [TS]

  were there was a cannon you went to [TS]

  college and there was that there were [TS]

  still more books than you could possibly [TS]

  read in a lifetime but you could read [TS]

  ten percent of the books and from that [TS]

  ten percent get a pretty good picture of [TS]

  what the common understanding of truth [TS]

  was and I idea and I think that's I [TS]

  think that's completely blown out of the [TS]

  water now right [TS]

  everybody's got their own micro truth [TS]

  and in that sense I think college is [TS]

  over there's no there's no reason it [TS]

  increasingly I feel like colleges is [TS]

  another one of these uh like temp it's a [TS]

  it's a timber business where the already [TS]

  kind of over [TS]

  it's already over and people are still [TS]

  going because of that because of inertia [TS]

  well because I mean I heard a thing on [TS]

  planet money we're talking about the [TS]

  kinds of jobs that have the highest and [TS]

  lowest average incomes so for example if [TS]

  you're going to if you you know what a [TS]

  petroleum engineer can make you can go [TS]

  to college and say well I'm going to go [TS]

  become a petroleum engineer because [TS]

  there's a pretty good chance that for at [TS]

  least the next five to ten years that's [TS]

  still gonna be a pretty good gig and I [TS]

  know I'm going to start in in the six [TS]

  figures the day I step out of that [TS]

  program right that has busy but that has [TS]

  a very what's funny about that as as [TS]

  difficult as that work is as smart as [TS]

  you have to be to do it as as hard as [TS]

  you're gonna have to work to get through [TS]

  that that is oddly similar to the same [TS]

  kind of vocational job that I had [TS]

  vocational training that I was [TS]

  completely not interested in when i was [TS]

  a kid i did not want to fix I didn't [TS]

  want to fix air conditioners I did not [TS]

  want to fix cash registers or not that [TS]

  was not you know work of the mind [TS]

  well yeah I exactly and a petroleum [TS]

  engineer spends a lot of time looking at [TS]

  graphs looking looking at printouts of [TS]

  yeah they're bears they're setting off [TS]

  charges are sending sound waves into the [TS]

  earth and watching it bounced off of [TS]

  stuff uh you know different layers of of [TS]

  schist or or felt bar and then they're [TS]

  really there they're interpreting charts [TS]

  basically in the same way that a that a [TS]

  radio repairman is they've just been [TS]

  taught how to do it [TS]

  it's more complicated than I mean I'm [TS]

  not even sure if it's more complicated [TS]

  than been tuning a crystal set but it [TS]

  doesn't feel like that it doesn't feel [TS]

  like upper campus right all that stuff [TS]

  at the University of Washington there [TS]

  are the lower campus is where all the [TS]

  new buildings are it's where all the [TS]

  excitement's happening it's where all [TS]

  you know you walk into these these [TS]

  buildings that have been for the old [TS]

  buildings that have been rehabilitated [TS]

  and every wall has a little cluster of [TS]

  av adapters and and little hook ups and [TS]

  USB ports and and they're all [TS]

  purpose-built for what people imagine or [TS]

  what people in 2009 imagined the modern [TS]

  classroom was going to be because we [TS]

  were all going to be Power pointing one [TS]

  another and it was you know books were [TS]

  gone and and science science science [TS]

  science and then the upper campus is is [TS]

  getting smaller and smaller and it's [TS]

  this area up there where people are [TS]

  still studying poetry or or like I mean [TS]

  can you think of a more relevant thing [TS]

  then poet than studying poetry but I [TS]

  mean the classic game classic is like [TS]

  you know our history right right but but [TS]

  when I was when I was entering college [TS]

  like those were precisely the things [TS]

  that interested me [TS]

  mhm art history was one of my all-time [TS]

  favorite class and colleges 20th century [TS]

  painting [TS]

  yeah one of one of four possible majors [TS]

  for me right there were only four [TS]

  conceivable ones English philosophy [TS]

  history art and and iím one of a mean I [TS]

  think entering freshman at the [TS]

  University of Washington now I mean they [TS]

  even in 1985 I don't think that many of [TS]

  them measured in the admit majored in [TS]

  the humanities but certainly a lot [TS]

  larger percentage than are doing it now [TS]

  I you know it right there that's the [TS]

  real automotive industry because think [TS]

  about that perfect storm on the one hand [TS]

  I mean I I you know I don't want to [TS]

  overstate this but i can already see [TS]

  that like when I was a kid we had a [TS]

  music class there was a gymnasium as you [TS]

  go to do Jim things there were all these [TS]

  things that were not strictly the [TS]

  academic stuff but I mean you had a [TS]

  music class you learn to a little bit [TS]

  play a little bit of an instrument learn [TS]

  about rhythm and learn about George [TS]

  Gershwin and all that kind of stuff like [TS]

  I you know i don't i don't i'm guessing [TS]

  the Copeland is not in the Common Core [TS]

  it in the way that it was when we were [TS]

  kids [TS]

  so on the one hand you have fewer and [TS]

  fewer people who are getting that [TS]

  everyday and let's be honest we're not [TS]

  just talking about middle-class kids [TS]

  there are a lot of kids that would not [TS]

  learn about that stuff at home they're [TS]

  not going to listen to their parents you [TS]

  know eight tracks of the planets or [TS]

  something like that and then you know [TS]

  but then on the other hand think about [TS]

  where the money comes from at a [TS]

  university not just the tuition but [TS]

  think about the grants think about where [TS]

  that money goes that's not going to be [TS]

  coming from you know the National [TS]

  Endowment for the Humanities probably [TS]

  going to be coming from exxon well and [TS]

  increasingly universities get a lot of [TS]

  money from the patents that they [TS]

  developed ID so I and I don't want to [TS]

  give too much away but but the I just [TS]

  had a very interesting meeting of of [TS]

  this arts commission [TS]

  that i'm on the music commission in the [TS]

  arts commission had a joint meeting and [TS]

  we were talking about the kind of we [TS]

  were we were pie-in-the-sky in because [TS]

  we're the those commissions are doing a [TS]

  really good job in seattle now and [TS]

  people are excited about them and [TS]

  companies are coming around and and the [TS]

  and the the proposal was kinda like all [TS]

  right if we were going to envision a [TS]

  forward-looking arts curriculum for [TS]

  Seattle Public Schools and we felt like [TS]

  we could present it to the world and and [TS]

  take money from people and and actually [TS]

  build it like not just build a [TS]

  curriculum but build up an academy and i [TS]

  just purchased outline if implemented [TS]

  yeah and really build a physical [TS]

  structure that has drinking fountains [TS]

  and and classrooms and is a place that [TS]

  that people go and what would it look [TS]

  like and we went around the table and [TS]

  this is a the these are the people at [TS]

  the Commission are like all the super [TS]

  altruistic mind set [TS]

  nobody's there to personally profit it's [TS]

  it's a it's a lot of work to be on one [TS]

  of those commissions and we're trying to [TS]

  make the city better but every single [TS]

  idea was like well you know what we need [TS]

  we need to you know we need a classroom [TS]

  on like video game design and we need a [TS]

  classroom on like you know graphic art [TS]

  design all this sort of design and and [TS]

  electronic music implementation classes [TS]

  where it's like we got to teach them how [TS]

  to use the tools the pro tools and the [TS]

  this tools and the part tools so that [TS]

  they can go out and like make commerce [TS]

  huh [TS]

  and as it as I wanted it sits one [TS]

  without anybody saying its kind of [TS]

  driven by the idea of a market right the [TS]

  cut the the commerce commerce word never [TS]

  got used it was just that as we because [TS]

  the thing is nobody wants to say well [TS]

  the kids should know what be all every [TS]

  single kid should be forced to learn the [TS]

  clarinet god forbid it right i mean all [TS]

  everybody on the thing wants to be [TS]

  contemporary they want to give stuff [TS]

  they want to have a curriculum that kids [TS]

  are interested in they want to they want [TS]

  to be ahead of the game [TS]

  head of their parents and not yet not [TS]

  force the clarinet on a bunch of kids [TS]

  that are using their iphones to make [TS]

  music but in doing that the whole [TS]

  curriculum was at as initially [TS]

  envisioned was dependent on companies [TS]

  interacting with the schools and and and [TS]

  and sort of like predicated on the idea [TS]

  that we were giving them real skills and [TS]

  not a bunch of like nothing so in order [TS]

  to attract that kind of interest by [TS]

  which we mean corporate money it has to [TS]

  appear uh it has to appear very modern [TS]

  mhm and very practical right so then [TS]

  that way Microsoft maybe we'll come in [TS]

  and give us five thousand zunes or [TS]

  something [TS]

  it's not about bringing somebody with a [TS]

  bassoon every once in awhile huh well [TS]

  and so it's so so it kind of came around [TS]

  the table to me and I was like listen [TS]

  it's not like we have the opportunity to [TS]

  develop an arts curriculum with a [TS]

  capital A arts and I don't think that [TS]

  that is technology dependent i mean i [TS]

  think it's it's important that we do [TS]

  have a room somewhere where where we can [TS]

  learn how to use protools and it's [TS]

  important to have a room somewhere we [TS]

  can use you know learn how to use a [TS]

  photoshop or whatever like tech rooms [TS]

  are important for sure but talking about [TS]

  art is already a mysterious project it's [TS]

  already complicated and difficult hard [TS]

  to even it's hard to even agree on what [TS]

  that means i guess you could argue [TS]

  that's always been the case in [TS]

  twentieth-century but i think it's at [TS]

  more than ever it's very difficult to [TS]

  come up with some version of art that [TS]

  doesn't either feel like dusty or full [TS]

  of charlatans [TS]

  yeah exactly Thank You exactly and yet [TS]

  without it like we can't see that ground [TS]

  to to the dusty history right we can't [TS]

  say like provocative art is just a thing [TS]

  that has been colonized by [TS]

  Russian mobsters and it's all just [TS]

  Damien Hirst garbage now like we have to [TS]

  continue to have a language of art and [TS]

  we have to continue to provide the [TS]

  opportunity for people to challenge us [TS]

  through art whatever mean you know I at [TS]

  and I reflect back on the jesse helms [TS]

  like auntie and I nea write a hearings [TS]

  of the nineteen eighties again fucking [TS]

  nineteen eighties got damaged the worst [TS]

  johnny was the cells bad but like this [TS]

  whole business of like what is art and [TS]

  and watching and actually being in a [TS]

  position sitting at a table where I [TS]

  might have some small voice in [TS]

  determining some aspect of an arts [TS]

  curriculum in seattle and realizing that [TS]

  I'm swimming against the tide even to [TS]

  suggest that the arts are in some way [TS]

  anything but a trade that the arts are [TS]

  something something that transcend [TS]

  training and become a kind of theory and [TS]

  practice that it that requires that you [TS]

  know they're recording some ways [TS]

  requires difficulty and requires that [TS]

  people be trusted and and and really [TS]

  like turning loose right if all they had [TS]

  were clarinets they would make something [TS]

  amazing with clarinets it isn't it [TS]

  doesn't matter that the tools be a [TS]

  avant-garde or that it's at the very [TS]

  least a three legged stool because if [TS]

  you had if think about you know when you [TS]

  have music classes in the past or [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  I mean you could hand somebody I'm like [TS]

  I said clarinet because that's that's [TS]

  that's not the best one to start with [TS]

  but even if it's one of those got off [TS]

  the recorders if you had somebody a [TS]

  recorder and just show them how to play [TS]

  scales and modes and maybe sure that [TS]

  things about rhythm time signatures and [TS]

  that kind of stuff you would that would [TS]

  now that's a pretty fucking dusty class [TS]

  because all you [TS]

  gonna do is play scales you're not going [TS]

  to actually making you music the second [TS]

  leg of the stool has to be well now that [TS]

  we know enough not even everything now [TS]

  that we know enough we can actually play [TS]

  hot cross buns or three blind mice [TS]

  whatever whatever whatever your regional [TS]

  version of that is and it's not going to [TS]

  sound great but now you're making a [TS]

  little tune now wouldn't it be great for [TS]

  the third leg of that stool soldier [TS]

  learn a little bit more about music and [TS]

  how people take those technical skills [TS]

  apply the craft of this song that [TS]

  somebody has put together and then what [TS]

  does that mean context and god dammit [TS]

  that can mean so many different things [TS]

  and I like I look at my kid and like [TS]

  right now she is pretty obsessed with [TS]

  making stuff all the time [TS]

  our house is upside down there's glue [TS]

  everywhere there's glitter glue there's [TS]

  origami paper on fucking everything [TS]

  she's kind of exciting things that all [TS]

  it's all this thought technology glitter [TS]

  glue glue with glitter [TS]

  Oh No and boy does it get everywhere [TS]

  because it because you thought you had [TS]

  trouble getting glitter out of things [TS]

  ask yourself about glitter glue haha [TS]

  it's like spray poo [TS]

  I don't want it but nobody like I see [TS]

  this with her see I really see with her [TS]

  right now where she's teaching herself [TS]

  she likes fancy writing more than [TS]

  regular writing so now she is tracing [TS]

  things in cursive and trying to teach [TS]

  yourself cursive because she just likes [TS]

  the way that it looks she writes letters [TS]

  to herself in cursive and then she [TS]

  illuminates them with with stamps and [TS]

  thinks she's cut out of magazines that [TS]

  you know she I'm not saying it's great [TS]

  art but she walks around with a legal [TS]

  pattern of independent we walk around [TS]

  the park and sheshe not very well but [TS]

  draw stuff all the time and like how [TS]

  long is she gonna have that how long is [TS]

  she going to have that urge to just make [TS]

  move your hand and make stuff up here on [TS]

  a page and the thing is I mean I'm torn [TS]

  on the technique technology issue [TS]

  because i do think of it as a class [TS]

  thing in a lot of ways and the thing is [TS]

  if you have an iPad in the house if you [TS]

  have a Mac in the house like there are [TS]

  plenty of resources even crappy open [TS]

  source apps but you could learn to use [TS]

  logic at the age of ten maybe protools [TS]

  but you could you can learn to do [TS]

  garageband on ipad that's all there [TS]

  I don't get me to track for that [TS]

  necessarily but there are a lot of kids [TS]

  that don't have that and I don't want to [TS]

  just put them on some you know 20 year [TS]

  old pc you know with some busted ass [TS]

  program crashes all the time [TS]

  yeah it's not you think I do think all [TS]

  those things do work together it's and [TS]

  it's not like so many problems at least [TS]

  in my estimation we fall short when we [TS]

  skip get too reductive about trying to [TS]

  focus on one aspect of it jesse helms [TS]

  did that by looking at bullets in a [TS]

  man's ass and saying ergo we should not [TS]

  find art right you're throwing out all [TS]

  these other things that are really [TS]

  valuable but even when we when we teach [TS]

  things like it's you have to understand [TS]

  it starts with the every little kid has [TS]

  a natural urge to make cool stupid stuff [TS]

  so I'm just about race cars sometimes [TS]

  it's about aliens [TS]

  sometimes it's about disney princesses [TS]

  but they have accomplished compulsion to [TS]

  make that stuff what this is this is why [TS]

  I'm terrified of them of Minecraft I [TS]

  don't understand it so Karen minecraft 2 [TS]

  i'm not gonna go booga-booga but i have [TS]

  to run away from it because it just on [TS]

  the basis i'm saying just on the basis [TS]

  of the elementary school and what [TS]

  t-shirts kids wear it seems to become [TS]

  like an entire lifestyle to every is a [TS]

  lot of girls but especially every little [TS]

  boy around six seems to be getting like [TS]

  absorbed into Minecraft yeah and and the [TS]

  language that adults are using the the [TS]

  articles that i read about it in wired [TS]

  and the articles that i read about it [TS]

  everywhere I are all you know really at [TS]

  pains to talk about how creative it is [TS]

  inclined without collaborative and how [TS]

  it requires i mean i read an article not [TS]

  very long ago and I'm sure everybody [TS]

  listen to this podcast also read that [TS]

  said that minecraft actually increases [TS]

  literacy because kids are going on [TS]

  minecraft hack blogs and reading at [TS]

  reading above their reading level [TS]

  because they are interested in figuring [TS]

  out a passionate about it they're [TS]

  passionate about it and their passion is [TS]

  causing them to teach themselves to read [TS]

  on blogs and I read this thing and I was [TS]

  just like seriously really is this where [TS]

  we are is this the resisted the the the [TS]

  point in the conversation where I mean I [TS]

  feel like raising my hand and saying uh [TS]

  maybe the fact that Johnny can't read is [TS]

  is the is the thing to address not not [TS]

  to clapping and praise minecraft for [TS]

  teaching for giving kids a reason to [TS]

  learn to read I'm keeping my powder dry [TS]

  on this [TS]

  one and I'm trying and trying to help [TS]

  you keep your powder dry okay because [TS]

  it's a new thing it's a new thing but [TS]

  like I guess that it always seems like [TS]

  whenever something is new and we're not [TS]

  familiar with it like you and I are not [TS]

  familiar with it we see the worst [TS]

  aspects of it which is the same thing [TS]

  happened when people want to make [TS]

  computer games like why don't you want [TS]

  to go do your math homework why are you [TS]

  why are you doing all these computer [TS]

  games money on a way that kind of his [TS]

  kind of math homework what I'll say is [TS]

  and i I don't I can't have the numbers [TS]

  to say with whether that observation [TS]

  about reading blogs is true what i will [TS]

  say is my daughter is much more [TS]

  interested in reading something if she [TS]

  likes what she's going to read the [TS]

  cancer like in and that started with us [TS]

  reading comics before she could talk to [TS]

  like now she'll sit there with a comic [TS]

  book and I can see her and it's one [TS]

  thing that like I accidentally got right [TS]

  was the comic books because a kids comic [TS]

  book hasn't you can really look a good [TS]

  comic book you know so has great art and [TS]

  you can tell the story of sequential art [TS]

  and you can release us out a basic story [TS]

  and then when you learn a little bit [TS]

  more about reading you can figure out [TS]

  some of the words and then if you don't [TS]

  know the word you can like try to figure [TS]

  out the rest of it in context but let [TS]

  them think about it like you know [TS]

  anything where you really wanted [TS]

  something like you'll apply all of your [TS]

  devilish childish wits to trying to [TS]

  figure out how to get that thing so i [TS]

  don't know i mean i don't think the [TS]

  argument is the same as as often gets [TS]

  used with musical instruments right i [TS]

  sat down at with a piano teacher so from [TS]

  1977 to 1981 and in the course of the at [TS]

  four years of weekly piano lessons I [TS]

  learned not sane because every week I [TS]

  was supposed to go known and now and [TS]

  then and a techie eventually will play [TS]

  the moonlight sonata poorly [TS]

  yeah I i had no interest in any of you [TS]

  know and and the argument that somebody [TS]

  should have sat down with me and gone [TS]

  like it like here's the basic met here's [TS]

  how to basically play uh this Elton John [TS]

  song [TS]

  ding-ding-ding-ding-ding [TS]

  ding-ding-ding-ding-ding doing and give [TS]

  me a song and and just start there is [TS]

  it's very convincing because it's very [TS]

  convincing to me that that would have [TS]

  been a better method because it's not [TS]

  what happened [TS]

  right and it's easy enough to assume [TS]

  that before yeah right like I didn't [TS]

  like playing the piano and I didn't [TS]

  learn how to play the piano despite [TS]

  throwing tons of artillery at at the [TS]

  problem I never I never took the beach [TS]

  but if I had if I'd been if my teacher [TS]

  had been a long hair had been like [TS]

  here's how to play on John man get with [TS]

  the times i can picture myself going [TS]

  like yeah but in fact the way I learned [TS]

  to play the piano was well actually the [TS]

  way I learned was that I got hired in [TS]

  harvey danger and that's not going to [TS]

  work for everybody but but other great [TS]

  story eventually I came back to the [TS]

  piano on my own and I sat down at it and [TS]

  I started picking the way and it because [TS]

  I had because I because i needed to and [TS]

  now i am I do play the piano but i have [TS]

  no depth or breath at the thing right [TS]

  mi my mom by contrast can sit down and [TS]

  sight read and play [TS]

  she painted up as a kid well yeah [TS]

  because she was taught piano in the in [TS]

  the nineteen thirties or night back in [TS]

  the sticks in Ohio [TS]

  yeah the one where where they where the [TS]

  where the teacher sat on a tall stool [TS]

  and hit you with a rod and I'm not [TS]

  broken foot him I get kicked your broken [TS]

  foot until you learn to play the piano [TS]

  how but my of my mom characterizes [TS]

  herself as having no gift and she can [TS]

  sit down and play Tchaikovsky and I and [TS]

  I look and I'm just like mom that's [TS]

  incredible back that's amazing [TS]

  and she just just misses it with a wave [TS]

  of her hand like well I'm you know I'm a [TS]

  I'm a poor musician and the I just was [TS]

  forced to learn this [TS]

  I was forced to acquire this this habit [TS]

  for this is probably like learning long [TS]

  division it's not anything we go I i [TS]

  really want to be able to work out some [TS]

  of this division I've heard on the radio [TS]

  it sounds like work [TS]

  yeah super and I think she approached it [TS]

  that way and when she sits down she does [TS]

  play that music for pleasure she likes [TS]

  to hear it and she likes to you know [TS]

  feel her fingers kind of figure out the [TS]

  patterns again but she her take on it is [TS]

  very is almost completely absent of art [TS]

  right she just learned a thing up by [TS]

  rote and now she can do it she sees the [TS]

  black dots on a piece of paper and she [TS]

  knows that that means push down this key [TS]

  to my ear [TS]

  it sounds beautiful look I mean I [TS]

  wouldn't i wouldn't say that it was like [TS]

  a like art fall but i mean it's it's [TS]

  like she's playing this beautiful music [TS]

  from the page and if she and I were both [TS]

  invited into a hotel lobby and someone [TS]

  said would someone like to sit at the [TS]

  piano and entertain us like what my mom [TS]

  can do is a thousand times more useful [TS]

  in that situation than what i can do you [TS]

  play commander thinks aloud twice [TS]

  yeah I would sit down and be like yo ya [TS]

  died out back dumped out by ok i got [TS]

  three more stick around everybody and [TS]

  and so I mean honestly the idea that [TS]

  that that that honey attracts more flies [TS]

  than vinegar that the is that the folks [TS]

  saying is that the Bill Clinton saying [TS]

  you catch you catch more flies with [TS]

  honey than vinegar i think is is the [TS]

  folks saying yeah right and so this idea [TS]

  that the way to teach people the best [TS]

  way or the only way to teach people is [TS]

  by um you know appealing to their to [TS]

  their interests [TS]

  it always a I mean what it suggests to [TS]

  me is that that the earlier step of like [TS]

  establishing their interests was super [TS]

  duper important and a lot of times that [TS]

  just comes that windows closed now we [TS]

  are at least it's hard to pry open the [TS]

  way the way that window got established [TS]

  was that mom and dad were like oh yeah [TS]

  just go play with the fucking ipad while [TS]

  mommy and daddy talk or whatever you [TS]

  know like the the initial establishment [TS]

  of the interests was not i mean most [TS]

  people don't take the care that you took [TS]

  to say like I want you to get into this [TS]

  i want to show you this you know i mean [TS]

  most adults that I mean they're talking [TS]

  about their kids talk about the ipad as [TS]

  you know sort of there there little [TS]

  guilty about it like we yeah we give [TS]

  them the ipad for sure usually just to [TS]

  give us some space for some time to [TS]

  think ur so we can speak a paragraph [TS]

  this week to ya and so and that is that [TS]

  is like that is omaha beach in this [TS]

  kid's mind like here's the period is [TS]

  like you for years from now we're going [TS]

  to talk about well the only way we can [TS]

  get Johnny to learn to read is by latch [TS]

  is by putting him on minecraft blogs [TS]

  because that's his interest you know [TS]

  that's where that's where his interests [TS]

  are and it's like I wonder why that's [TS]

  true and and it all seems very passive [TS]

  right it always seems like we're just [TS]

  reacting and all Johnny wants to do is [TS]

  is strums guitar so we're trying to [TS]

  teach him English bye-bye [TS]

  you know having him learn songs in [TS]

  english reading fake books he's reading [TS]

  fake books and I think it's a thread [TS]

  through this that has family on Hugh [TS]

  that has been I'm sure much better [TS]

  articulated by people for centuries but [TS]

  but there does seem to be a basic [TS]

  problem which is and this sounds like [TS]

  the plot of some kind of a kids movie [TS]

  yes yes yes lot of kids we but you know [TS]

  the thing is when you're when you're a [TS]

  grown-up and you gotta look kid and you [TS]

  got all these ideas and like some of the [TS]

  some popular kinds of ideas are like I [TS]

  you need to go um take karate or you [TS]

  need to go go to soccer because there's [TS]

  character things and you'll get exercise [TS]

  and there's all these different things [TS]

  but you know whatever there's a hundred [TS]

  different reasons why you would do [TS]

  something like send your kid to soccer [TS]

  or importantly in this case why you say [TS]

  i want you to take piano lessons now the [TS]

  thing is you as a parent see this in [TS]

  such a vastly different way you see it [TS]

  as like hey maybe this could be the next [TS]

  client gold or you see this as I wish [TS]

  I'd learned how to play piano or any of [TS]

  the dozens of other reasons why it seems [TS]

  like a great idea the kind of kind of [TS]

  force a kid into learning a musical [TS]

  instrument or learning of you know any [TS]

  kind of crafty things going to [TS]

  controlling lessons and the thing is i [TS]

  can I apologize for how obvious it's [TS]

  obvious this is but I think about it a [TS]

  lot [TS]

  the way I describe what might do what my [TS]

  daughter does like my daughter is not [TS]

  sitting around thinking about making [TS]

  great sequential art she just likes the [TS]

  way it feels to drawing a page i think i [TS]

  think she likes smooching her hands [TS]

  around the glue [TS]

  I think she likes the way that feels and [TS]

  i think it's it's important to I don't [TS]

  know how to do this but I feel like it's [TS]

  important to get give opportunities for [TS]

  people to play like that and I think [TS]

  about you see me on your piano i called [TS]

  The Wolverine cord right where I I hold [TS]

  my pinky with my thumb and I play triads [TS]

  with my three middle fingers you see me [TS]

  do this shoot that snaked not damaged [TS]

  mix all right over for chili but like [TS]

  that's how I learned I learned because I [TS]

  wanted to be able to like I just thought [TS]

  that was fun I'd sit around you know it [TS]

  down time you know at church events we [TS]

  hang out and like play try to figure out [TS]

  how to play songs on the piano [TS]

  just cuz it was fun it felt good it's [TS]

  not good you could play loud you could [TS]

  bang on it it was play much more than it [TS]

  was learning i'm not saying i'm in a [TS]

  mini prodigy piano but I see this in my [TS]

  daughter so yeah my brought my acoustic [TS]

  guitar home it the office forever i [TS]

  finally brought it home so we could you [TS]

  know it's fun to just play around [TS]

  I thought a long time ago will claim [TS]

  will play songs and sing together but [TS]

  what she really likes his wife Sonia [TS]

  photo this she likes walking up to it [TS]

  and kind of banging on the strings [TS]

  standing over on the stand like almost [TS]

  like it's a cello and iíve shown her [TS]

  how to do two chords that she can mostly [TS]

  replicate the one she's best that is in [TS]

  a 5 that was the easiest course i could [TS]

  think of in terms of you know the the [TS]

  strings are too hard to press down you [TS]

  know the two middle strings at the 2nd [TS]

  fret and then I should our after that [TS]

  children a minor and she's not great at [TS]

  it but she still stand in front of the [TS]

  guitar facing the guitar and with the [TS]

  totally wrong finger push down mostly [TS]

  the right places right on the front [TS]

  which drives me crazy because it buzzes [TS]

  but she sits there and she plays these [TS]

  little chords really shitty and then she [TS]

  goes into this crazy d Boone thing where [TS]

  she just keeps going up and down and [TS]

  back and you know what it's like to be a [TS]

  little kid playing with a guitar and I'm [TS]

  put it out of my mind like this katar [TS]

  the strings are going to break the [TS]

  guitar my break [TS]

  she has so much fun just banging around [TS]

  on that and I don't know if that'll [TS]

  invention ever [TS]

  Jeff utility i was thinking more like [TS]

  Stanley Stanley Clarke still join whom I [TS]

  think enough Stanley Clark Jordan like [TS]

  Jordan yeah this married name [TS]

  yeah you said teacher just teach you [TS]

  some tips start teaching songs like you [TS]

  know it's it doesn't just drawn persuade [TS]

  a button boom [TS]

  well I think what you're getting at is [TS]

  this is this is this crucial thing [TS]

  justin is not about me I'm trying to [TS]

  remember like how fun it is just fuck [TS]

  around and have nobody sitting there [TS]

  correcting you and just if she wants to [TS]

  bang around on that guitar like go ahead [TS]

  go nuts and sometimes i will say hey you [TS]

  want to see the other court you want to [TS]

  so think maybe I'll get a ratard for a [TS]

  birthday I don't know she didn't love [TS]

  the piano we got her but she's gonna [TS]

  play and it'll be fun and it's not going [TS]

  to be pressure for her to get back up [TS]

  segovia by the time she's aight i think [TS]

  it's more and I think it's more probably [TS]

  more fun for her to play on Dad's guitar [TS]

  than to have one of her own but like I a [TS]

  big part of this is this can take it [TS]

  dovetails with this this idea that [TS]

  there's nothing new Under the Sun but [TS]

  that that so much of so much of making [TS]

  art is [TS]

  reinventing the wheel and you can sit [TS]

  there and and shape their little hands [TS]

  and and and teach teach teach teach [TS]

  teach like like art is a thing that can [TS]

  be known and I think that that is in a [TS]

  way a really important part of the [TS]

  process but then there's that other [TS]

  thing which is at a certain point and a [TS]

  and I i think the jury's out where that [TS]

  point is but you have to reinvent it [TS]

  somehow you have to be able to act as [TS]

  though as though it's like beyond [TS]

  thunderdome and you are a tribe of kids [TS]

  living it in a in a lucky little valley [TS]

  that's separated by a great desert [TS]

  uh-huh and it is the dying time and the [TS]

  and you are you are inventing your [TS]

  culture with just the faintest memory of [TS]

  what the what came before you write that [TS]

  it has to feel like your own even if [TS]

  it's your own cover of The Kinks there [TS]

  has to be something about it i mean i [TS]

  don't that's exactly what you're saying [TS]

  but like I think part of it is that it [TS]

  really feels like some kind of [TS]

  transplanted culture when you try to to [TS]

  pop this culture into a kid like an [TS]

  Atari cartridge and then expect them to [TS]

  go all da bak or something like yeah you [TS]

  can you can see the kids in in [TS]

  rock-and-roll the kids in their twenties [TS]

  now whose parents put them in Nirvana [TS]

  t-shirts when they were three years old [TS]

  18 years ago right i mean you can kind [TS]

  of see them you see them even i'm sure a [TS]

  like they're there are a couple of kids [TS]

  and my daughter's preschool who have a [TS]

  moment's if you will you know like their [TS]

  parents are trying to push them toward [TS]

  being cool from a very young age in the [TS]

  hopes i think that being that if they [TS]

  are cool that'll that they won't have a [TS]

  heartbreaker they won't have problems [TS]

  growing up [TS]

  like the solution the solution to so [TS]

  many problems is to just be one of the [TS]

  cool ones and I mean and that is that's [TS]

  that's that's painful and true well yeah [TS]

  well put [TS]

  it's so different from my approach which [TS]

  is to say you are going to be a nerd i'm [TS]

  going to force you to be one it's going [TS]

  to suck and through that through that [TS]

  heart that heart those many many hard [TS]

  years you're gonna grow up to really [TS]

  appreciate um how how fun it is to be an [TS]

  adult and my name's see the pain not [TS]

  have your dad not have your dad forcing [TS]

  you to take your letter you're helping [TS]

  her understand that she will be an [TS]

  outsider [TS]

  yeah right and that because you know [TS]

  being an outsider [TS]

  well I mean ultimately like she's going [TS]

  to decide right and and she's already [TS]

  decided that what she's gonna be as a [TS]

  princess but and that's wonderful [TS]

  because a my understanding is they make [TS]

  a lot of money [TS]

  ok let's get down the princess cut but [TS]

  that but watching I'm house facebook [TS]

  came through my feed the other day I [TS]

  somehow got on facebook again found the [TS]

  key under your mat I'm really trying to [TS]

  curate my feet I'm not reading the news [TS]

  on twitter anymore i read iced I I [TS]

  signed on to the internet the other day [TS]

  and then and I was like you know what [TS]

  I'm you like that in front of the [TS]

  internet but i'm gonna go over he went [TS]

  down to the cold room open the cage went [TS]

  in putting your key i'm gonna go over to [TS]

  Twitter and see and I'm you know what [TS]

  i'm gonna do i'm going to go over to [TS]

  Twitter i'm going to read the news i [TS]

  haven't done it in a couple of weeks I'm [TS]

  gonna just going to read my news feed [TS]

  and see what I come up with and I got [TS]

  over there and i started reading and I i [TS]

  read a couple of things about the [TS]

  Ukraine that were interesting and I saw [TS]

  a couple of things you know the [TS]

  about this and that I thought were yeah [TS]

  that's pretty interesting and then I [TS]

  clicked on a retweet of somebody's and I [TS]

  read it somebody's blog post and I was [TS]

  like wow okay and that blog post was in [TS]

  response to another blog post about that [TS]

  they felt about the dave chappelle i [TS]

  read that last night that was a good [TS]

  luck you reach it with it and that I [TS]

  thought that that person's writing was [TS]

  really great that both pieces were were [TS]

  very nuanced that yeah it was it was a [TS]

  fascinating conversation and gutsy gutsy [TS]

  anak but it got into a little bit of you [TS]

  know more my stomach was starting to get [TS]

  butterflies [TS]

  butterflies [TS]

  because I was like well I don't know [TS]

  instead I don't I don't have a comment [TS]

  here I'm just I'm just just reading the [TS]

  news just reasons in your head you can [TS]

  just imagine the thousand different kind [TS]

  of like intellectual bumfights there [TS]

  that you like just watch too drunk I [TS]

  said each other that's exactly right i [TS]

  mean but like I just like this just [TS]

  people representing the absolute worst [TS]

  yeah point of view on either side of [TS]

  this I just gonna be in each other with [TS]

  sticks [TS]

  I very studiously did not read the [TS]

  comments on either blog you know I [TS]

  didn't want to go down i just read the i [TS]

  just read the blog didn't see any [TS]

  reaction gifs just didn't didn't get did [TS]

  you know just stay away from it stand [TS]

  away from it and then I and then I'm so [TS]

  I'm back up to the surface of Twitter [TS]

  and i'm reading along and and then [TS]

  there's and Hodgman has a little a link [TS]

  to his tumblr and i click on it and it [TS]

  is a graph of the all the John's that [TS]

  have influenced each other and all the [TS]

  John's that are that make a very [TS]

  interesting little cluster of john hope [TS]

  that was a first draft and it said [TS]

  Flansburg lanell huh [TS]

  Stuart attachment called Najman Colton [TS]

  and I'm just innocently looking at the [TS]

  fucking news for two seconds and i click [TS]

  on a friend's link which was a link that [TS]

  he was that was just somebody made and [TS]

  he was real tweeting it i'm sure he [TS]

  didn't do that and and now I've only [TS]

  been on the news side of this thing for [TS]

  for honestly two minutes and I feel bad [TS]

  I've seen a thing that made me feel bad [TS]

  right and i just closed it all down was [TS]

  just like why did I go and read the news [TS]

  on Twitter I am trying to I'm trying to [TS]

  not have those feelings and under the [TS]

  Internet provides so many opportunities [TS]

  hell did well you did exactly what you [TS]

  should do you sound like you came into [TS]

  it thinking maybe it'll be different [TS]

  maybe that's why i'm away this is a fun [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yep i'm gonna go over there I'm gonna [TS]

  read some stuff I'm going to learn about [TS]

  the news i'm going to see people making [TS]

  things [TS]

  and so but anyway as I closed down [TS]

  twitter i went over to facebook i had [TS]

  not had enough i had not had enough [TS]

  Marilyn I went to facebook and I and for [TS]

  whatever reason the facebook like [TS]

  alchemy of just like Oh what would you [TS]

  like to see today I mean they're like [TS]

  the room temperature deserted you're on [TS]

  there just like would you like some flan [TS]

  that's the one kind of dessert we have [TS]

  no no that's not true we have flan and [TS]

  we have a new scale and surprising thing [TS]

  so one surprising thing you need to know [TS]

  today about flan and I get over there [TS]

  and and the person's website that I go [TS]

  to the third the person's facebook page [TS]

  that I go to see is a guy I haven't [TS]

  thought of in years [TS]

  some guy went to high school with who uh [TS]

  he was a bro when we were in high school [TS]

  and I'm deposited on his facebook page [TS]

  and he is a bro now he's an Alaska bro [TS]

  he has a he he's a 45 year old man with [TS]

  a goatee not a mustache either like just [TS]

  a chin goatee and his his his facebook [TS]

  pages just picture after picture of him [TS]

  wakeboarding and of him doing some more [TS]

  wakeboarding and other kind of you know [TS]

  him holding a giant salmon and him you [TS]

  know with his arm around his like [TS]

  embarrassingly much younger wife and [TS]

  then him with his two adorable little [TS]

  like kindergarten age kids both of whom [TS]

  have super cool dude haircuts and his [TS]

  dad had a permanent sneer on all through [TS]

  high school and and college you know [TS]

  like ass like the kind of smug sneer of [TS]

  somebody that that had been born with [TS]

  money and a little bit of a pan he's [TS]

  sort of a pan man but but much more but [TS]

  like in Alaska that version [TS]

  he's he's grown into being a pan man he [TS]

  was a skinny kid now he's kind of us at [TS]

  least it looks much more like a pan guy [TS]

  but whatever his job is I don't know [TS]

  it's um it's probably something in the [TS]

  financial sector or maybe he sells [TS]

  bulldozers or something he's doing well [TS]

  he's successful guy and every aspect of [TS]

  his life looks amazing [TS]

  if you're if you are judging your adult [TS]

  life on the strength of the aesthetics [TS]

  of a bones brigade VHS tape from 1984 [TS]

  right like he's the groan is a grown-up [TS]

  skater Alaska style and I'm looking at [TS]

  his facebook page and it's just like my [TS]

  head is just spinning I've just come off [TS]

  of this two minutes on the Internet [TS]

  where I where I got confused and [TS]

  delighted and then ultimately like sad [TS]

  and now i'm over here i'm looking at [TS]

  this alternate history of my life where [TS]

  it's like I know this guy like I haven't [TS]

  seen him in 15 years but I know this guy [TS]

  we grew up together and I'm looking at [TS]

  his life as presented on facebook and [TS]

  it's causing me to be causing my stomach [TS]

  to churn and I'm i feel light-headed [TS]

  I'm wondering if if I would have been [TS]

  happier if I just gotten really into [TS]

  wakeboarding because big because it [TS]

  seemed too good to be true or you're [TS]

  somehow slightly envious of his of his [TS]

  bro lifestyle is that in fact that the [TS]

  fact that it all fits together so well [TS]

  not that it seemed too good to be true [TS]

  because i know that it is exactly as it [TS]

  seems and that can't lie on facebook you [TS]

  can exaggerate their well except that [TS]

  except that I know this guy and his [TS]

  adult life looks like his teenage life [TS]

  it looks like is it looks like it is [TS]

  this is the life that his father [TS]

  provided for him right there were all [TS]

  kinds of guys at my high school that [TS]

  like had brand new Chevy stepside [TS]

  pickups when they were 16 years old and [TS]

  never talk about there was a kid at my [TS]

  high school who drove a 57 Corvette to [TS]

  school right [TS]

  and the license plate was a personalized [TS]

  license plate that said THX thanks [TS]

  thanks dad [TS]

  yeah right so dad bought him the [TS]

  Corvette and got a blaze got in the [TS]

  plates had to it like the ultimate just [TS]

  like here's my son and I'm gonna make [TS]

  him simultaneously the coolest kid on [TS]

  campus and also the world's biggest [TS]

  fucking chode like that he's giving you [TS]

  get an iphone like when the wallpaper is [TS]

  you give him a thumbs up for something [TS]

  about right [TS]

  it's the it's the original it's the [TS]

  original just like you are always going [TS]

  to be under my thumb kids so never [TS]

  forget it right thanks dad thanks dad [TS]

  and and it's a it's a thing I think rich [TS]

  dad's do to win the inert like make [TS]

  their sons i don't know like to it's a [TS]

  maybe it is a a and Agamemnon thing [TS]

  where you just like keep your son down [TS]

  because you're afraid he's going to kill [TS]

  you and and have sex with your wife but [TS]

  it but in any case like this was the [TS]

  problem when I was growing up all the [TS]

  the kids that were successful in Alaska [TS]

  were kids whose lives to like their [TS]

  ambitions were 22 well seemed incredibly [TS]

  simple right [TS]

  the that there's no neuroticism in the [TS]

  life of a guy who goes from wakeboard [TS]

  adventure to wakeboard adventure that [TS]

  not a big hand ringer right like Laird [TS]

  Hamilton does not he mourns the death of [TS]

  his friends who were killed by a big [TS]

  wave but he's not [TS]

  yeah he doesn't wonder or what you [TS]

  presume that Laird Hamilton does not [TS]

  wonder about his his purpose or whether [TS]

  he's doing a good job [TS]

  and that neuroticism is the thing I want [TS]

  to exercise from my own life [TS]

  it's the thing that I love and the least [TS]

  interested in any more about myself and [TS]

  so I go on this guy's website and I'm [TS]

  like that website Facebook thing and [TS]

  nothing about his actual existence [TS]

  intrigues me except what I perceived to [TS]

  be the simple like me like mono culture [TS]

  of it just like he's like he's [TS]

  considered got several successful [TS]

  doctorates in being 18 like he's he's a [TS]

  very accomplished has reached the [TS]

  highest lovely is like a 33rd level monk [TS]

  of of being a teenager [TS]

  yes might work and then from there I [TS]

  mean I as i was driving down here today [TS]

  i passed by the bus stop [TS]

  that's down at the corner of my block [TS]

  and Skeeter was sitting out there [TS]

  rolling a cigarette and Skeeter wears [TS]

  one of those Peruvian hats with earflaps [TS]

  and so-and-so is unmistakable because [TS]

  I'm you know like how many guys are [TS]

  rocking that look right now so I'm [TS]

  driving by the bus stop and I'm seeing [TS]

  Skeeter and its eight thirty in the [TS]

  morning and he's rolling a cigarette and [TS]

  I had that consciousness having formerly [TS]

  been a smoker and a drug addict that [TS]

  like oh right on [TS]

  Skeeter's having his first smoke of the [TS]

  day or maybe it's his second but like [TS]

  he's marking his days marking his [TS]

  passage through the day one cigarette a [TS]

  time until he can get his first drinkers [TS]

  first hit a dope which might might have [TS]

  happened already [TS]

  and you know it's like you're marking [TS]

  the day cigarette cigarette smoke [TS]

  cigarette cigarette cigarette beer tok [TS]

  cigarette cigarette tok tok beer beer [TS]

  beer beer beer beer cigarettes beer [TS]

  cigarettes beer and then the days over [TS]

  and and that's there's something very [TS]

  comforting about that and reassuring [TS]

  like you always you always have that as [TS]

  your stubbing out the last cigarette you [TS]

  have the next cigarette on the horizon [TS]

  and you just are kind of leapfrogging [TS]

  lily pad to lily pad throughout the day [TS]

  and you never are just at sea wondering [TS]

  like how am I gonna make it [TS]

  how am I gonna make it to dusk and and [TS]

  this guy his facebook page i was looking [TS]

  at is doing a version of that with his [TS]

  life it's just like jet ski jet ski tok [TS]

  tok TV show TV show here kitty kitty [TS]

  haircut haircut haircut and then now [TS]

  he's got kids [TS]

  so then it's hockey practice hockey [TS]

  practice and his goal is to make his [TS]

  kids really good hockey players and [TS]

  really cool kids in high school so [TS]

  that's his new project and there's no [TS]

  there's no neuroticism he never second [TS]

  guess is that he never wonders if he if [TS]

  that's the if he's doing the right thing [TS]

  his kid comes home and he's like yeah [TS]

  bad there was a skin on the playground [TS]

  is real fag and I told him to fuck off [TS]

  and his dad like yeah yeah like there's [TS]

  no there's there is never ever going to [TS]

  say like well son maybe you should walk [TS]

  a mile in that kid's shoes [TS]

  I mean it's just stories not even sure [TS]

  how to approach the topic matter and [TS]

  yeah like I'm not only do I want to give [TS]

  you this really kind of like mushy [TS]

  advice it's hard to understand but i'm [TS]

  not even sure how to talk about this [TS]

  ya know it doesn't do that doesn't pop [TS]

  into his head it's just like Oh some kid [TS]

  was a fag and you told him to fuck off [TS]

  that's right and that is the brewskis [TS]

  that simplicity uh you know it's so it's [TS]

  so ugly it's so it's so like dark to me [TS]

  but it's but if my own darkness is such [TS]

  a drag [TS]

  I haven't seen this page and been in [TS]

  this particular corridor [TS]

  um but I'm mama uh cheer you up making [TS]

  this dark [TS]

  ok I I said something a long time ago [TS]

  which is something along the lines of if [TS]

  you want to learn what somebody fears [TS]

  losing watch with a photograph which i [TS]

  think is really it's kinda true and the [TS]

  horrible losing my lunch room [TS]

  but no seriously if you look at that so [TS]

  my only addendum to that today is and I [TS]

  don't think this is just about facebook [TS]

  but I maybe this is just that I've [TS]

  become a darker person but I think also [TS]

  sometimes when you watch what people [TS]

  photograph or put differently here when [TS]

  you watch what people put on social [TS]

  media [TS]

  it might be the thing that you most fear [TS]

  losing but it's I think sometimes it's [TS]

  the thing they fear may not love them as [TS]

  much as they love it [TS]

  mm or maybe the thing that they're have [TS]

  equivocal feelings about our complex [TS]

  feelings about and one nice thing about [TS]

  a photograph that you put on a page or [TS]

  one nice thing about a succession of [TS]

  photographs of your absolutely perfect [TS]

  vacation is that it cements in your mind [TS]

  the idea that this when a certain way [TS]

  and meets a certain story and i'm [TS]

  honestly I'm not trying to back on this [TS]

  guy because I do this [TS]

  everybody does this when I take a [TS]

  picture of my kid and put it somewhere [TS]

  because this feels like emblematic of [TS]

  what I think things are how this how [TS]

  this thing is happening whether it [TS]

  really is happening that way or not but [TS]

  increasingly the way we take photos or [TS]

  tell stories or put things in social [TS]

  media or a way of like telling ourselves [TS]

  a story that helps make our life make [TS]

  more sense [TS]

  you can call that branding calls other [TS]

  stuff you can do whatever you want but I [TS]

  think sometimes when you put that stuff [TS]

  up [TS]

  it may be that that he has more complex [TS]

  feelings about those things or worries [TS]

  that those things have complex feelings [TS]

  about him setting aside his what's [TS]

  called a starboard [TS]

  it's called his boogie boogie night [TS]

  what's called as we're border wave wave [TS]

  breakers waverunner but I think [TS]

  sometimes that becomes a way I mean [TS]

  nobody there aren't that many people who [TS]

  primarily put up photos of their kid [TS]

  being unhappy or sullen because that's [TS]

  not the story that you want on the [TS]

  bookstore that you want on the one of [TS]

  the books is that we had a birthday [TS]

  party and it went okay at least in this [TS]

  one photo [TS]

  how many photos I mean like my [TS]

  daughter's fourth birthday party had a [TS]

  blowout birthday party for her at the [TS]

  park and there was stuff and like and [TS]

  she was like crying and running away [TS]

  from the group the entire time and then [TS]

  I'm honestly how the birthday want to [TS]

  get a funny picture for dressed as [TS]

  spider-man because a cool costume she [TS]

  got but but you know it's all that shit [TS]

  in life is so much more complicated then [TS]

  you can put into a facebook post it's [TS]

  gonna get a lot of thumbs and that's not [TS]

  a criticism because it is a new way of [TS]

  telling a story about ourselves whereas [TS]

  it used to be a really big deal [TS]

  I have my picture in the paper when I [TS]

  was about six and that seemed like about [TS]

  the biggest thing in the world I was [TS]

  photographed a library and I thought it [TS]

  was the coolest thing in the world and [TS]

  that became really like this thing [TS]

  showed people look look I must be [TS]

  important I'm in the paper [TS]

  here's me like reading a microfiche or [TS]

  whatever and I don't know I guess I I [TS]

  feel like it's not anything against that [TS]

  guy is not just to to check your [TS]

  shoulder I think everybody struggles [TS]

  with the stuff i think everybody looks [TS]

  at other people's stuff not purely in [TS]

  the sense of Envy in the sense of oh I [TS]

  wish with I had or gel I wish I had what [TS]

  they had her jealousy i wish i had it [TS]

  and they didn't or the boy that guy's a [TS]

  tool house his life so together that's [TS]

  that's what you put up that's what you [TS]

  do that's the version that you print [TS]

  because it's kind of expresses hope [TS]

  about how the world can be and and so [TS]

  like I think have to take all that stuff [TS]

  with a tremendous grain of salt [TS]

  you know that people had to be [TS]

  SuperDuper positive about lots of stuff [TS]

  in public until they get really scared [TS]

  when they get scared em I think when [TS]

  people tend when people get scared in [TS]

  life is the time they tend to be most [TS]

  honest about or most forthcoming about [TS]

  what they really worried about but most [TS]

  of the time you'll do anything you can [TS]

  to not have to talk about that and [TS]

  that's what those pictures are that's [TS]

  what does boogie boards and haircuts are [TS]

  is an opportunity like this is the world [TS]

  as I hope it is [TS]

  yeah i i i i went down a rabbit hole of [TS]

  talking about this guy [TS]

  oh where you know I i tried to make it [TS]

  one of my core competencies that I have [TS]

  empathy for bros right like they like [TS]

  I'm I'm I'm profoundly aware that they [TS]

  are human beings and that their that [TS]

  they're not monsters and and and sky [TS]

  there's their pleasures are simple [TS]

  yeah and there's this guy is you know it [TS]

  in a way like a guy i know well and and [TS]

  even somebody he was never a friend but [TS]

  it would was a guy that if i was back in [TS]

  Anchorage I ran into a bar I'd be glad [TS]

  to see him [TS]

  it was and so the way i was describing [TS]

  my experience of up watching him was [TS]

  what you know I got a little um I got a [TS]

  little shitty about it and and really my [TS]

  experience was a hundred percent [TS]

  internal and had nothing to do with him [TS]

  he who knows what his life is like I [TS]

  don't even know what his life is that [TS]

  was like when he was 16 years old [TS]

  um but you know my experience of sitting [TS]

  and studying not the facebook page of [TS]

  somebody that I know well not the [TS]

  facebook page even if somebody that that [TS]

  I'm that I'm interested in how they're [TS]

  doing but I landed on the facebook page [TS]

  of somebody that I did not buy I I'm not [TS]

  transacting anything with them nor will [TS]

  I ever again [TS]

  engine thinking about him too much yeah [TS]

  and wandering through as you say the [TS]

  their their idealized presentation of [TS]

  their life and seeing even in their [TS]

  idealization of their life nothing to [TS]

  interest me only things to critique and [TS]

  judge and field and and ultimately [TS]

  critique and judge myself against you [TS]

  know because i did not i didn't come [TS]

  away from that feeling that that I it in [TS]

  a way yeah I I've always preferred my [TS]

  worldview or methodology to those guys [TS]

  those old friends of mine from from [TS]

  Alaska it's why I left Alaska it's why I [TS]

  never felt like it [TS]

  I i truly belonged to that culture but I [TS]

  i was critiquing myself against that [TS]

  incredulously in that [TS]

  it feels like that's of that is that is [TS]

  a way of living it's a pen and a valid [TS]

  one and when he gets to the end and [TS]

  looks back at his life he's not going to [TS]

  probably burden his kids on his deathbed [TS]

  with a lot of talk about all the things [TS]

  he wishes he done you know that one of [TS]

  what i think as i get to be a middle [TS]

  aged person my great great fear the [TS]

  worst thing I could do to my kid is to [TS]

  start start now saying things like well [TS]

  I could have we could have lived in [TS]

  hawaii but it didn't work out that way [TS]

  or I wish died you know I wanted I there [TS]

  was a time I thought maybe I would do it [TS]

  make a television show but it did you [TS]

  know kids love boring and irrelevant [TS]

  stories that are ultimately really safe [TS]

  right and the thing is you know this was [TS]

  the this was mad as my dad got older we [TS]

  had a lot of these conversations he was [TS]

  like well I should have been a senator [TS]

  and I would say like that [TS]

  stop it shut up what are you talking [TS]

  about like your you lived an amazing [TS]

  life and you know this like this these [TS]

  certain niggling regrets and that's what [TS]

  I don't want that's how that's what I [TS]

  don't want for myself and and I guess [TS]

  ultimately like the the the passionate [TS]

  feeling I had about this guy's facebook [TS]

  page that caused me to like finally turn [TS]

  off the internet and stay away from it [TS]

  was that I was contrasting my self-doubt [TS]

  against his right and and perceiving at [TS]

  least that he had none and i don't think [TS]

  you could I don't think you could even [TS]

  go on my facebook page and perceive that [TS]

  I had no self doubt [TS]

  um put that but that steps self-doubt [TS]

  what the what good is it what is the [TS]

  evolutionary advantage of it [TS]

  I don't know yeah it and and and I'm [TS]

  saying all the I i would like to think [TS]

  in the facebook of my mind that the [TS]

  self-doubt that I am utterly riddled [TS]

  with has in practical terms had most of [TS]

  its usefulness running out of it already [TS]

  right all the times that I could have [TS]

  used that self-doubt i feel you have you [TS]

  pretty exhausted and you know I I need [TS]

  some of the other stuff now [TS]

  yeah thank you that's just weird give me [TS]

  a month give me a month with the [TS]

  opposite of self-doubt i'm grateful that [TS]

  i had it because it made me into the [TS]

  person that I am and that is I think it [TS]

  in the long run a good thing the [TS]

  self-doubt that I had contributed to me [TS]

  being thoughtful but I'm fucking done [TS]

  with it now plz like I would like to [TS]

  just act and eat and poop and live and [TS]

  not brood because the right the rate of [TS]

  return is like that at zilch now on [TS]

  brooding and so maybe I need to just [TS]

  start being a tambourine right it's [TS]

  really is a fantastic time for [TS]

  technology [TS]

  thank god we've got it brings the world [TS]

  right to your doorstep [TS]

  ah they're making all the bills for [TS]

  phone stuff that we pay all the internet [TS]

  is so that we can go and find new ways [TS]

  to be completely riddled with self-doubt [TS]

  yeah I can and seriously stopping [TS]

  watching the twitter feed has made me [TS]

  happier [TS]

  absolutely and taking facebook off my [TS]

  phone has made me happier there's no [TS]

  question about it and so I i keep coming [TS]

  keep coming maybe back to [TS]

  it's like it's like it's like stopping [TS]

  eating sugar right then [TS]

  then friday night you have an ice cream [TS]

  because you feel like you've deserved it [TS]

  and then your kind of back on the sugar [TS]

  training and the and the the feeds the [TS]

  various feeds out there that are trying [TS]

  to pitch lives to me are just there the [TS]

  their mind sugar and that is so [TS]

  antithetical to go to the story that [TS]

  we're being told by tech that these [TS]

  things are hurting their connecting us [TS]

  that there that they are I mean that the [TS]

  implicit live all this stuff is that is [TS]

  making us closer to other people [TS]

  yeah I just be honest it's making us [TS]

  further from ourselves [TS]

  yeah exactly and and and and and what's [TS]

  terrifying is that there there's a part [TS]

  of me that's like well for instance i [TS]

  just got a sonos system [TS]

  oh right the Sooners the home speaker [TS]

  thing I got a sonos home speaker thing [TS]

  and i said i spent a whole day setting [TS]

  it up in my house and i'm not somebody [TS]

  that listens to a lot of music around [TS]

  the house but all of a sudden I got like [TS]

  this really interactive stereo system [TS]

  and we had a really nice weekend at the [TS]

  house because there was music playing in [TS]

  every room all of a sudden where there [TS]

  had never been where that we had never [TS]

  been possible circle and I was like you [TS]

  know this is very interesting like this [TS]

  is this is a new kind of a new take on [TS]

  this and I'm and unfortunately like I [TS]

  only have four albums on my iPad so I'm [TS]

  just listening to these four albums over [TS]

  and over you feel Collins albums and [TS]

  then two other ones well yeah and then [TS]

  there's that then there was that one it [TS]

  was I got the I gotta try to get you to [TS]

  work i got the box set of the early [TS]

  duran duran records and personally what [TS]

  that meant is there's like seven [TS]

  different versions of hungry like the [TS]

  wolf because there's like the Berlin mix [TS]

  and then get like planet Earth in [TS]

  Aramaic and somehow I couldn't figure [TS]

  out how to arrange the queue so that it [TS]

  wasn't playing things in alphabetical [TS]

  order so just played hungry like the [TS]

  wolf like seven times [TS]

  anyone else in every room in every room [TS]

  but you know but it was really exciting [TS]

  and and and right away I start to think [TS]

  like maybe I should download one of [TS]

  those apps that allows me to raise and [TS]

  lower my garage door opener from my [TS]

  phone and then I was like I don't have a [TS]

  garage [TS]

  first of all and second of all like no [TS]

  stop stop it leave it leave it [TS]

  do not turn do not hook up your security [TS]

  system and your house lights to the [TS]

  internet like don't that technology is [TS]

  still in beta and you are not an early [TS]

  adopter of that shit [TS]

  leave it hmm i am NOT German and your [TS]

  skin is so tight so he says I don't know [TS]

  what are the winter but it's the line [TS]

  [Music] [TS]