Roderick on the Line

Ep. 139: "Building a Lung"


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  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

  good [TS]

  yep are my packets he your packets are [TS]

  our handsome so far [TS]

  good good i like to have my packets [TS]

  arrive 100-percent packed with no loss [TS]

  no loss of any kind of the content [TS]

  yeah way back in 2014 [TS]

  that was one of my resolutions means [TS]

  really I would keep my package tight [TS]

  it's so hard because i don't know uh you [TS]

  know it's like it's like they say don't [TS]

  let somebody else pack your parachute [TS]

  that's what they say now but I feel like [TS]

  every time I go on the internet somebody [TS]

  else's back in my parish I hear that [TS]

  sister you know i'm saying i know and [TS]

  you know and I don't like it [TS]

  whatever people say things like that [TS]

  though i can't help but have this lot [TS]

  going through my mind which is what if [TS]

  they're way better at packing it in your [TS]

  oh good point [TS]

  not you your parachute not all [TS]

  parachutes if you had a professional [TS]

  parachute Packer uh-huh and then you [TS]

  yourself was just some kind of like one [TS]

  time Charlie which one would you want to [TS]

  have pack your parachute that's a great [TS]

  point I think maybe is it's definitely [TS]

  less catchy but maybe what we should say [TS]

  is don't let one time Charlie pack a [TS]

  parachute that's right well and you know [TS]

  what I'd have jumped out of an airplane [TS]

  you're kidding and let me tell you who [TS]

  packed my parachute a professional [TS]

  parachute Packer not me [TS]

  yeah because a they didn't even offer me [TS]

  the option let me go and just take care [TS]

  of that for you know what we would do [TS]

  this a long time yeah yeah and and I was [TS]

  glad for it opened just fine so you did [TS]

  skydiving one time when I was a what 22 [TS]

  years old I was going to the University [TS]

  and there was a and I was trying to [TS]

  figure out the kind of woman I wanted to [TS]

  spend the rest of my life well to [TS]

  understand this is a conundrum [TS]

  yeah it goes up it comes up from time to [TS]

  time you think I'm gonna you know I feel [TS]

  like I feel like I've gone through [TS]

  several experimental phases that [TS]

  like I am now a comfortable saying that [TS]

  I'm heterosexual and i'm going to bed [TS]

  i'm interested in women now that you're [TS]

  finally willing to admit that [TS]

  yeah and and like so what is my what is [TS]

  my what who is my my other who is my my [TS]

  my woman partner and I went through [TS]

  several iterations of like well let's [TS]

  see you know I feel like I wanted to be [TS]

  confident and strong and and capable in [TS]

  her own person and all that you know [TS]

  there were also many so many examples in [TS]

  college of people that I didn't want to [TS]

  be that kind of man I didn't want to be [TS]

  around that kind of man I didn't want to [TS]

  be with that kind of woman etc and out [TS]

  there was a there was a gallon one of my [TS]

  classes who had a blonde hair braided in [TS]

  this braid that was as thick as a baby's [TS]

  arm and it went down past her hand tool [TS]

  the turquoise accented leather belt you [TS]

  paint a picture and she sometimes she [TS]

  always had like dusty rough out cowboy [TS]

  boots on and sometimes she wore a kind [TS]

  of let's say blow blowjo hat [TS]

  mmm machinist who she is and she really [TS]

  did and she this is you know what 1991 [TS]

  91 or 92 and so I was suicidal up to her [TS]

  and she would also like always was [TS]

  really engaged with the professor always [TS]

  you know sitting in the few always sat [TS]

  in the front row so i could see her [TS]

  braids because i was sitting in the back [TS]

  of course so because i like to survey [TS]

  the class [TS]

  yeah I asked her out [TS]

  we went out on a few dates they were [TS]

  sort of it was sort of middling you know [TS]

  what I mean [TS]

  uh-huh because it turned out later that [TS]

  I did not really want like a Santa Fe [TS]

  artist type [TS]

  yeah you know like that's not where I [TS]

  was headed in life but at one point she [TS]

  was like let's go skydiving and I felt [TS]

  like this is the kind of adventurous [TS]

  date that I always dreamt of right she [TS]

  she she proposes that we go skydiving of [TS]

  course I'll go skydiving we went up we [TS]

  spent the whole day skydiving and you [TS]

  know you have the option of going where [TS]

  you're basically wearing an actual [TS]

  skydivers a backpack right or going by [TS]

  yourself and I was like I don't want [TS]

  anybody humping me on the way down like [TS]

  I'm work we're gonna go we're gonna go [TS]

  are essentially essentially she didn't [TS]

  want that option if you're probably [TS]

  feeling a little and dignified if you're [TS]

  like me can I have two people yeah can [TS]

  we all go to backup person too and it [TS]

  was pretty amazing you know i I've spent [TS]

  a lot of time in small planes so I [TS]

  wasn't uncomfortable I wasn't anxious [TS]

  being in the plane and we get up there [TS]

  and they're like okay who wants to go [TS]

  first and kind of look around there's [TS]

  like five of us in the plane not even [TS]

  not even it was a small plane was like [TS]

  there are three of us let's say I don't [TS]

  remember so long but I remember the part [TS]

  where they would have to be four of you [TS]

  if you had a grabby guy down so you but [TS]

  you're saying you like it not to have a [TS]

  great guy [TS]

  neither of us had grabbed again I and [TS]

  and she in the in the moment she looked [TS]

  at me she was like you go first and I [TS]

  was like I'll go first and I'm and I was [TS]

  not feeling any like anxiety at all this [TS]

  was all very familiar sights and smells [TS]

  and so I stepped out on the like every [TS]

  other plane ship you've ever taken [TS]

  except you jump out in the sky [TS]

  yeah except i'm wearing a parachute on [TS]

  this one yeah [TS]

  and there are there aren't really seats [TS]

  in the plan right you're just kind of [TS]

  sitting in its empty plane so I like [TS]

  they're like put your feet on the wheel [TS]

  and I'm like a very comfortable doing [TS]

  this I'd put my feet on the wheel a [TS]

  million times not in the air but that [TS]

  not feeling weird at all [TS]

  put my feet on the wheel and they're [TS]

  like reach out and grab onto the strut [TS]

  with your feet on the wheel strap the [TS]

  thing that holds the wing up [TS]

  that's right because we're in a 185 or [TS]

  something that's it [TS]

  the highway in airplane so I reached out [TS]

  and I grabbed onto the strut I'm feeling [TS]

  very confident and then the guy says now [TS]

  just slip your feet off the wheel and [TS]

  hold onto the strut and it seems like [TS]

  this it was the like uh obviously that's [TS]

  the next move right and my vision was [TS]

  that i was going to slip my feet off the [TS]

  wheel and my feet were gonna like fly [TS]

  back behind me and then I would be [TS]

  hanging onto the strut like Superman [TS]

  with my body you know straight behind me [TS]

  and then I would have the opportunity to [TS]

  decide whether I was gonna jump or not [TS]

  and of course you slip your feet off the [TS]

  wheel and you don't your feet don't hang [TS]

  behind you and you're not like flying [TS]

  like superman deciding whether to jump [TS]

  around [TS]

  Harold Lloyd hang on the face of a clock [TS]

  that's exactly right you slip your feet [TS]

  up the wheel and all of a sudden your [TS]

  whole body weight plus the weight of the [TS]

  air the friction is pulling at you [TS]

  grandma hungry for you you're holding on [TS]

  it is strut with your cat claws and I [TS]

  was like what [TS]

  no wait and then there's no there's no [TS]

  deciding to jump you cling to this plane [TS]

  until you are swept off of it and it's a [TS]

  genius move it sounds like skydiving [TS]

  hack they don't really tell you that [TS]

  that's that's the trick [TS]

  yeah there's no like they've been [TS]

  through this many times you don't stand [TS]

  in the doorway and the guys like okay [TS]

  whenever you're [TS]

  ready inhale or or the light turns green [TS]

  and you jump because they've been doing [TS]

  this for years and i'm sure people just [TS]

  stand there in the doorway paralyzed [TS]

  like yes no yes no [TS]

  so he walks you through this like stand [TS]

  on the wheel [TS]

  ok grab the strut right now just slip [TS]

  your feet off and the decision is made [TS]

  my god and so there's there's this [TS]

  picture of me holding onto the strut [TS]

  with my tongue completely out of my [TS]

  mouth like a like a golden retriever [TS]

  sticking his head out the window of a [TS]

  car huh [TS]

  because I open my mouth at to stick my [TS]

  tongue out in like a in a sort of in the [TS]

  style of the times like a Shaka bra like [TS]

  and the wind grabbed my tongue and [TS]

  stretched it to my ear and it's just it [TS]

  i was only hanging therefore it could [TS]

  have only been a couple of seconds [TS]

  before I was swept off the plane [TS]

  oh my god and man is it open in that [TS]

  kind of I mean something you haven't had [TS]

  any kind of training for this is where [TS]

  it opens automatically when you jump off [TS]

  the plane right yeah it's like it's like [TS]

  what it like parachuting onto a DJ beach [TS]

  it's connected to the plane with a cord [TS]

  and you as soon as you fall away Richard [TS]

  a horrible horrible way to do that is it [TS]

  only works on the first guy right [TS]

  because you can check the other folks do [TS]

  here put your feet on the wheel well you [TS]

  know I for the people for the people [TS]

  that are in the plane it probably looked [TS]

  like I got out there did the whole thing [TS]

  that was like I'm ready [TS]

  can you go to hit your head or something [TS]

  well no because because they have you [TS]

  away from the plane because they have [TS]

  you reach out and grab the strut kind of [TS]

  far as far out as you can as far as that [TS]

  out as you can reach so you're I [TS]

  wouldn't jump into a pool that way let [TS]

  alone the sky haha and what was [TS]

  incredible was they during the training [TS]

  which is a couple of hours of like [TS]

  here's what's gonna happen you're gonna [TS]

  fall [TS]

  it's going on walk and talk as you go [TS]

  through the gift shop [TS]

  yeah and incidentally they have anything [TS]

  in your heels great we got professional [TS]

  pressure package here don't worry about [TS]

  it one [TS]

  Charlie I they talk about the fact that [TS]

  a lot of people blackout [TS]

  yeah that that the experience of falling [TS]

  from an airplane is so unfamiliar that [TS]

  your body just selected several your [TS]

  body just reboots just what i was [TS]

  thinking i mean ii to do like actual [TS]

  real parachute skydiving where you pull [TS]

  your cord [TS]

  I mean don't you go through like weeks [TS]

  and weeks of training yeah you have to [TS]

  do this where the things that i love [TS]

  lucy i'm pretty sure you have to [TS]

  actually have lots of training and jump [TS]

  off a little block and stuff and look at [TS]

  all all of that and then you have to do [TS]

  multiple skydives where the case where [TS]

  the court is pulled for you right [TS]

  because what as I was going through the [TS]

  training I was like there's no way I'm [TS]

  gonna black out like coming what's the [TS]

  pool though it seems a little bit but [TS]

  let's see a little bit like having [TS]

  somebody take swimming class for eight [TS]

  weeks without ever actually getting into [TS]

  the water and then and say here's how [TS]

  you doing here is a youtube restroom [TS]

  ready like the head right go right [TS]

  sploosh well so so I'm like there's no [TS]

  way i'm in a blackout but as soon as I [TS]

  let go of the strut soon as I was swept [TS]

  off the wing of the plane to be honest I [TS]

  have very clear memory of the because [TS]

  you i'm falling backwards right i mean [TS]

  i'm like i fall away and what I'm [TS]

  looking I'm not looking down i'm looking [TS]

  up because just the nature of the way of [TS]

  cold and icy the plane getting rapidly [TS]

  smaller as it goes away from me and I [TS]

  get total tunnel vision like everything [TS]

  collapses [TS]

  yeah and i am on the absolute verge of [TS]

  blacking out all I can see in the very [TS]

  center of my perception is this little [TS]

  like kind of like the end of a looney [TS]

  tunes marrano know [TS]

  that and it just goes limp and I can see [TS]

  the airplane in the center of this [TS]

  little hole of light as it falls away [TS]

  from me and i managed to fight off [TS]

  completely passing out but just barely [TS]

  and then the parachute and then all of a [TS]

  sudden you're hanging about your hanging [TS]

  under a canopy and only then do you [TS]

  realize that you're hiding under a [TS]

  canopy like 6,000 feet above the ground [TS]

  certain and that is a completely [TS]

  outrageous feeling because you're [TS]

  because you know your beer see your feet [TS]

  and your but keep trying to find the [TS]

  chair you're just like where everything [TS]

  every impulse I mean you know you want [TS]

  people to the movies they look cool and [TS]

  stuff in the every impulse your body [TS]

  would have at that point would be [TS]

  asinine to turn into a spectator because [TS]

  first of all I would shoot myself pretty [TS]

  sure I would shoot myself in the plane i [TS]

  would reshape myself on the strut and [TS]

  then i would probably just periodically [TS]

  continue to shit as I felt through the [TS]

  sky 6,000 feet [TS]

  I it was it ended up being totally [TS]

  fantastic when you do definitely at [TS]

  first feel like I mean to be completely [TS]

  I mean I'm just thinking it must be you [TS]

  think about like waterboarding and what [TS]

  makes waterboarding so awful is that [TS]

  it's it's forcing you into this [TS]

  situation that your body there the they [TS]

  are capitalizing on something that your [TS]

  body does like autonomic Lee which is [TS]

  like to try and stop you from from [TS]

  choking and they can emulate the feeling [TS]

  of drowning in a very controlled way [TS]

  which is horrifying and it seems like [TS]

  every instinct you've never experienced [TS]

  anything like a freefall that ended with [TS]

  anything but horrible injuries seems [TS]

  like every second of the way at least [TS]

  first you your body would just be your [TS]

  body and your mind will just be reeling [TS]

  with like what to do [TS]

  yes that was fall I guess and then when [TS]

  you're under the parachute you keep your [TS]

  instinct is like i said to like get back [TS]

  on Kelly bicycling you're like I'm now [TS]

  i'm hanging and i would now like I'm [TS]

  hanging by a by a harness and i would [TS]

  like to get back on this chair that I [TS]

  fell off of i would like to get back up [TS]

  on the thing that I left [TS]

  behind and then you know you look up and [TS]

  you see this little insect of a plane [TS]

  which is now miles away and you're like [TS]

  oh right there's no getting back on so [TS]

  now here I am what I'm on is this [TS]

  parachute but and it was great they [TS]

  didn't do they didn't give you any [TS]

  training for the parachute but it was [TS]

  one of those parachutes that had that [TS]

  was maneuverable right it had handles on [TS]

  both you know ropes on either side that [TS]

  you could pull and and make the thing [TS]

  turn so we can actually works it's in [TS]

  them it's amazing it's like a little [TS]

  plain [TS]

  the problem being that the more [TS]

  maneuvering you do the faster you [TS]

  descend so I was really enjoying being [TS]

  up in the sky because you're slightly [TS]

  compromising the canopy nosov it in [TS]

  order to steer right let me drop when [TS]

  you drop you dropped to give yourself [TS]

  you know to carve turns or whatever but [TS]

  but it's a faster descent so I didn't so [TS]

  you have to balance the amount of [TS]

  goofing around you want to do with the [TS]

  amount of time that you want to spend in [TS]

  this extraordinary state which is like [TS]

  you're flying that's as close as I've [TS]

  come to it's a flight right an extended [TS]

  flight because there's no sound [TS]

  wow just you just up there flatfoot [TS]

  gonna be here some flapping fabric how [TS]

  long it you know how long it took to get [TS]

  from the plane to the ground [TS]

  no but it was a but it was a five [TS]

  minutes [TS]

  well let's see it probably wasn't 6,000 [TS]

  feet either it was probably 4,000 feet [TS]

  and I mean it lasted a couple of minutes [TS]

  but it was they were peak minutes 35 [TS]

  minutes maybe I mean I don't who knows [TS]

  i'm behind how do you land i mean isn't [TS]

  rolling thing [TS]

  well so then as you come in for a [TS]

  landing you you pull down on both sides [TS]

  of the of the rope and it kind of [TS]

  stalled you like I stalls you and I made [TS]

  a pinpoint landing right on the circle [TS]

  and you can stay on my feet didn't you [TS]

  kidding no it's not like it's not like [TS]

  world war two where you land and maybe [TS]

  break your leg like that with the fall [TS]

  fast right isn't it yeah and when you're [TS]

  dropping troops into Normandy like you [TS]

  need to get them out of the sky as fast [TS]

  as possible get them out of the sky and [TS]

  also those parachutes were not [TS]

  maneuverable [TS]

  so you were falling at a steady rate and [TS]

  you had no control over how fast or how [TS]

  you know you or how to steer you just [TS]

  were those parachutes were just going to [TS]

  drop you where they were going to drop [TS]

  you and that's why all those guys ended [TS]

  up in trees are hanging from from [TS]

  travelocity scotch the whole program [TS]

  they ended up going to and landed in a [TS]

  whole different town and then having to [TS]

  catch back up right had to catch back up [TS]

  and that was that easy whistles and half [TS]

  of them didn't have their guns and their [TS]

  clickers cookie clickers that's in that [TS]

  was this clicker you so but these pop [TS]

  modern parachutes and I'm sure that [TS]

  modern parachutists right special [TS]

  infantry guys I'm sure they have some [TS]

  control over their parachutes are more [TS]

  yeah although i'm not sure if every one [TS]

  of the if you dropped four hundred guys [TS]

  out of the back of an airplane and every [TS]

  one of them could steer his parachute [TS]

  uh-huh i think that would be a [TS]

  clusterfuck right because every every [TS]

  single guy be like I want to go over [TS]

  here and then they don't give details [TS]

  the kids what they want to go to dinner [TS]

  exactly it would be it would be like am [TS]

  it would be like a petri dish of sperm [TS]

  or something so you made it and has she [TS]

  did she jump she jumps she did great she [TS]

  was very much like you know she she [TS]

  maintained total confidence throughout [TS]

  the whole thing and then at the end of [TS]

  the day on the drive back we had some [TS]

  kind of fight some kind of argument in [TS]

  the car [TS]

  I don't remember what it was about but [TS]

  it was clear that that was our last date [TS]

  jumping out of the airplane was our last [TS]

  date because because it is one going to [TS]

  work out [TS]

  it felt like it felt like you know in a [TS]

  way it's better that we went parachuting [TS]

  to try and save our relationship then [TS]

  having a baby but it was one of those [TS]

  like all right well let's you know maybe [TS]

  seems easier [TS]

  let's go let's go jump out of an [TS]

  airplane and see if that like bonds us [TS]

  and in fact what it did was it just it's [TS]

  just it's it broke apart [TS]

  oh and then later that summer I was down [TS]

  in Seattle's like ritzy neighborhood [TS]

  walking past a kind of a ritzy French [TS]

  restaurant with a nap with outdoor [TS]

  seating and she jumped up and she was [TS]

  like John hey I want you to meet my [TS]

  fiance and he was some really preppy [TS]

  rich feeling rich smelling guy and that [TS]

  was during a that summer was kind of the [TS]

  phase I was going through a phase they [TS]

  were i was like what am I am I am I like [TS]

  a grunge loser or mi like a straight guy [TS]

  who should get a a banking job like you [TS]

  know cause I like you finally settled [TS]

  that self-doubt yeah thank you who you [TS]

  are what you see this boy was worth it [TS]

  to get through that it was that was a [TS]

  tough time I'm glad to talk about [TS]

  summers mean x [TS]

  yeah well anything was I didn't you know [TS]

  I was just like oh I'm good luck to both [TS]

  of you like hooray for you and I just I [TS]

  felt like right Yes I am NOT at least [TS]

  that whole part of college where you're [TS]

  in college you're kind of looking for [TS]

  your mate and then you're going to go [TS]

  off on your life's path together i'm not [TS]

  sure whether I this is one of those big [TS]

  questions did I decide to trial and [TS]

  error and trial and error decided you [TS]

  exactly what i learned that that was not [TS]

  who I was or did that it ended up that I [TS]

  was that wasn't who I was I never worked [TS]

  out [TS]

  and the worst part is when you think you [TS]

  know and you're probably wrong I my arm [TS]

  my wife and I met we're both on the [TS]

  rebound from along each of us had been a [TS]

  long serious relationship and so of [TS]

  course you know you and your kind of [TS]

  bonding quickly in this new relationship [TS]

  you talk a lot about the other person I [TS]

  don't I think we've been together maybe [TS]

  a week a week or so when we're walking [TS]

  past a coffee shop and she goes out [TS]

  there's empty him [TS]

  whoa one week yeah yeah and what was [TS]

  funny was that I felt like I felt like [TS]

  Woody Allen in Annie Hall like when he [TS]

  meets while Sean clique [TS]

  and you know where a nice talk so much [TS]

  about this this ex of hers maybe [TS]

  Manhattan anything with it was expecting [TS]

  this little homunculus of a man she met [TS]

  this guy sounds so so like he's a really [TS]

  nice guy but you know it's it's so [TS]

  uncomfortable hate that feeling well and [TS]

  then you decided to get married you guys [TS]

  yeah eventually yeah yeah see I never I [TS]

  never decided that [TS]

  yeah I I wonder what that would be like [TS]

  what I have to make you probably have to [TS]

  change the house a little bit yeah you [TS]

  know I would have said that for having a [TS]

  kid too and you probably do some basic [TS]

  baby-proofing or maybe not but uh put [TS]

  the poisons on a higher shelf [TS]

  she's still free to go look at the [TS]

  Braille playboys absolutely how she's [TS]

  gonna get an education otherwise you're [TS]

  gonna learn Braille find out which is [TS]

  your stereo system to buy yeah I don't I [TS]

  I all of that College experimentation [TS]

  I feel like a lot of a lot of people [TS]

  take they can look back at their college [TS]

  experimentation and feel like it was [TS]

  part of a project that delivered them [TS]

  somewhere i get the ultimate they can [TS]

  they can impose a structure or a plan on [TS]

  it [TS]

  in retrospect oh yeah but then that's [TS]

  when you're still that's when you still [TS]

  young enough to think things happen for [TS]

  a reason [TS]

  yeah and now the problem is that none of [TS]

  that it for me ever seem to add up to a [TS]

  path there's those all this College [TS]

  experimentation and it was just like [TS]

  different it was different but um [TS]

  different little little knob Yul's [TS]

  inside of a lung [TS]

  I was just building like along [TS]

  architecture everything along i was [TS]

  building a long experience an [TS]

  existential lucky [TS]

  yeah it was certain long shaped just the [TS]

  one along a long shift experience but [TS]

  what it turned out was that I didn't [TS]

  even need alarm i was [TS]

  building a long sigh i was having long [TS]

  shaped experiences and what I needed was [TS]

  a different kind of organ I needed a [TS]

  liver or maybe I wasn't even [TS]

  bioengineering they deliver us together [TS]

  the other thing is that you know [TS]

  sometimes just because the pattern looks [TS]

  like a long that mean it's a look [TS]

  well so okay that's true too now that's [TS]

  what that's what I'm saying I'm saying [TS]

  like that's to be to finally get to our [TS]

  age where you are really broken by life [TS]

  and you stopped seeing those patterns [TS]

  you know you don't you don't realize at [TS]

  the time how chaotic and misshapen your [TS]

  life is and how much like at least for [TS]

  me like how much I was always reacting [TS]

  to something that had happened in the [TS]

  past I don't make stop how about some [TS]

  level I always felt like I'm fixing this [TS]

  thing about life and then of course I [TS]

  was you know kind of fun fixing 50,000 [TS]

  other things at the same time and [TS]

  there's no there's not really any [TS]

  pattern to it except that you stayed [TS]

  alive and isn't that weird if you're [TS]

  kind of where i'll end up look at you [TS]

  didn't die that's you if you try to take [TS]

  to me lessons out of life you turn into [TS]

  a crazy person didn't I didn't I mean [TS]

  and ultimately I guess what a long [TS]

  architecture is is is fractals [TS]

  hmm and also the novel is our fractal [TS]

  they're like miniature lungs inside the [TS]

  lungs reiterating I think that's true i [TS]

  think if you get down inside of a long [TS]

  and you get really microscopic on it's [TS]

  just a it's a four losses call quick to [TS]

  all the way down and what I was building [TS]

  was it was a fractal was like fractal [TS]

  long and and and what I needed was a [TS]

  different or maybe I didn't [TS]

  maybe the need is the wrong word [TS]

  anything you take away from the show [TS]

  today please just let it be this make [TS]

  sure that you're actually building an [TS]

  organ you may not be building Morgan you [TS]

  may not even need to build an organ but [TS]

  if you're going to build an organ [TS]

  understand the organ that's being built [TS]

  and we might need two of them so you're [TS]

  already probably never gonna get that [TS]

  project finished [TS]

  that's right if you get down inside of a [TS]

  heart I don't think it's hard to all the [TS]

  way down oh no no no hearts are made of [TS]

  ugly things right not novels no hearts [TS]

  are made of Valve's em an out-and-out [TS]

  parts are made of valves [TS]

  so our car motors is that right yeah but [TS]

  the engine doesn't beat up those things [TS]

  in its way because it's got the [TS]

  cylinders to throw up the cylinders move [TS]

  kinda like the way to get you get the [TS]

  arteries in the ventricles that was [TS]

  called nobody calls ventricles you know [TS]

  four chambers right that's right baby [TS]

  orders [TS]

  is that right am I saying the right [TS]

  words I honestly don't remember any of [TS]

  this [TS]

  I there are a lot of scientists [TS]

  listening to the program [TS]

  yes have the answer readily at hand you [TS]

  think I feel like I feel like a orders [TS]

  an aorta is the main vein here's the [TS]

  difference between us and bring you here [TS]

  in vain visit us in you listener is that [TS]

  we're just saying words and you're [TS]

  listening to this while you're looking [TS]

  at Wikipedia that's the difference [TS]

  that's how much smarter you are is that [TS]

  you're looking wikipedia and we're no [TS]

  more puzzles no I know isn't that what [TS]

  makes bruises when you papa what papa [TS]

  valve when you pop out what is the best [TS]

  present of Papa corpuscle huh [TS]

  no I think that cover your puzzle is [TS]

  what sticks on the outside of a boat [TS]

  yeah you have to capture your heart this [TS]

  episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  sponsored by need need is a refined [TS]

  retailer and lifestyle publication for [TS]

  men each month needs sources and curate [TS]

  a selection of exclusive products from [TS]

  brands around the world represented in a [TS]

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  expect from a typical men's magazine [TS]

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  placed an order with need can send an [TS]

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  of an animal who doesn't like coffee and [TS]

  I'll send your magazine but hey you also [TS]

  get twenty-five percent off your next [TS]

  order with need so please friends visit [TS]

  need edition calm and need edition calm [TS]

  / essentials are thanks to need for [TS]

  civilizing the modern man and for [TS]

  supporting Roderick on the line [TS]

  um do you think of yourself as a member [TS]

  of the tech community I used to very [TS]

  much so now it's I would consider myself [TS]

  a secondary or tertiary member by other [TS]

  people maybe I don't use the things [TS]

  twice and i usually consider myself as [TS]

  you know a season technologists and now [TS]

  i don't think that at all i'm confused [TS]

  because there's no al just answer the [TS]

  question quickly like it's this kind of [TS]

  there's many kinds of people but one way [TS]

  one way to break down how much of a tech [TS]

  person you are i think is how much you [TS]

  are into the technology we kind of for [TS]

  its own sake vs 250 million other [TS]

  reasons and like I am increasingly [TS]

  perfect perplexed by the people who are [TS]

  genuinely interested in things like chip [TS]

  speeds because I I'm not trying to be [TS]

  disparaging but there's a time I used to [TS]

  think I was a tech person but they've [TS]

  always been a little of a content person [TS]

  oh IC content content hate that word oh [TS]

  when I look at pictures of you when you [TS]

  were in college with your with your that [TS]

  I don't like a pan and then for sure [TS]

  with your dread pirate roberts mustache [TS]

  you know there's three people I used to [TS]

  be compared to in terms of looks this is [TS]

  so implausible now Bakary Elway's mom [TS]

  Michael Michael Palin and who is the [TS]

  other one but that people use to take a [TS]

  look like Carrie always carry always [TS]

  like on my best day I looked a little [TS]

  like Harry always I I feel like it i [TS]

  feel like you're so you back sorry I [TS]

  just spoiled princess bride look back [TS]

  when you were when you were a smile [TS]

  Taylor back when you were young guy and [TS]

  you were in the New York City subways do [TS]

  get in your army jacket with your big [TS]

  shit-eating grin on I got it figured out [TS]

  your little blond mustache you were very [TS]

  scary always mhm on that hair at that [TS]

  point in your life did you feel like you [TS]

  were a member of a community [TS]

  yes what was the community [TS]

  I feel like at that time I was a member [TS]

  of a few i mean the thing is is I can't [TS]

  help but think of it this one way which [TS]

  is like [TS]

  when you asked this question so it's a [TS]

  really interesting question the [TS]

  technology 12 is like my first thought [TS]

  is do I consider myself a member of that [TS]

  community but conversely does that [TS]

  community consider me part of that [TS]

  community right which i think is a [TS]

  pretty different kind of thing but no at [TS]

  that time I was really I felt I'm want [TS]

  to it's very small school and I had a [TS]

  lot of friends so I you know I was in I [TS]

  felt very connected to several music [TS]

  type communities that you remember of [TS]

  the Dead Milkmen fan club [TS]

  that's right and they considered you as [TS]

  a member in good standing [TS]

  I saw them live in tampa hi Dean back in [TS]

  the day is I dread zeppelin same venue [TS]

  what so i used to love going to see [TS]

  dread zeppelin all there around all the [TS]

  fun time that we had some times didn't [TS]

  we [TS]

  but done and the other ones were like [TS]

  just the this not stony because i think [TS]

  i like I don't think of myself as like a [TS]

  stoner dummy but I was very interested [TS]

  in things like churches of genius know [TS]

  just what would become the super [TS]

  annoying like research magazine culture [TS]

  like I did consider myself like part i [TS]

  was very interested i was interested in [TS]

  extremity i was interested in Walter [TS]

  Hudson the the heaviest man in the world [TS]

  because I could still take 28 408 for [TS]

  lunch every day for Big Macs four double [TS]

  cheeseburgers eight large orders of [TS]

  fries and a quart of coke while with [TS]

  1400 pounds and so these kinds of things [TS]

  attracted me and partly it was stony [TS]

  stuff but like I was very interested in [TS]

  extreme and of course I was a cheerful [TS]

  paranoiac up being a half-assed Marxist [TS]

  post Marxist i was very interested in in [TS]

  all things paranoiac not strictly [TS]

  conspiratorial but very much like Howard [TS]

  germany was you know sometimes [TS]

  deliberately being used to manipulate us [TS]

  right now see that right there that was [TS]

  a huge part of college for me so yeah I [TS]

  thought was part of all those [TS]

  communities you know you never consider [TS]

  yourself too much of a community guy at [TS]

  well you know I was members of i was a [TS]

  member of a lot of different communities [TS]

  that didn't interact with each other and [TS]

  I felt I felt a kinship with that [TS]

  community that you're describing [TS]

  and you know and I thought and then [TS]

  before there was a term for it before [TS]

  that was called alternative culture it [TS]

  just seemed like all of those different [TS]

  things were sort of swirling around in [TS]

  on the punk rock side of culture right [TS]

  that was like no it wasn't going to say [TS]

  it but basically the big Venn diagram [TS]

  there's many many circles but almost all [TS]

  of them have at least seventy percent of [TS]

  their circle inside of punk rock from [TS]

  inside a punk right and when they might [TS]

  be giants first arrived on the scene [TS]

  they were clearly coming out of that [TS]

  culture right they kind of embodied a [TS]

  sort of that it like you never knew what [TS]

  punk rock was going to produce next and [TS]

  it was like oh now it's now it's [TS]

  producing this or I mean it you know it [TS]

  was there was that there was a there was [TS]

  a an excitement about weirdness an [TS]

  excitement about extremity it was really [TS]

  a really good DIY for sure right [TS]

  right on and what she could you can say [TS]

  that into something like independence [TS]

  but if not strictly anti-authoritarian [TS]

  very skeptical of people with the [TS]

  answers in a method for implementing it [TS]

  i saw i was driving here today and I saw [TS]

  a poster for a band on a phone pole and [TS]

  it was using sort of Soviet typeface [TS]

  Soviet font like fake fake Soviet I like [TS]

  that car accident maybe like that pushed [TS]

  for the interview like that style right [TS]

  except not not so not so watered down [TS]

  like like in the style that we used to [TS]

  do where it was like we didn't actually [TS]

  have access to those typefaces so we're [TS]

  kind of making them ourselves or [TS]

  whatever and that that referencing [TS]

  referencing the soviet union in a way [TS]

  that was like four or referencing sort [TS]

  of communist totalitarianism in a way [TS]

  that was maybe a little admiring but not [TS]

  completely not completely so no but I [TS]

  totally know what you mean it's like [TS]

  weirdly tongue-in-cheek like one thing [TS]

  my wife and I bonded on early as we both [TS]

  really like Maoist propaganda art I mean [TS]

  it sends Gordon nursing [TS]

  it's it's unbelievably gorgeous [TS]

  especially given that it's about the [TS]

  cultural revolution or the Great Leap [TS]

  Forward and so looking at these [TS]

  especially even a 70 so it can't work [TS]

  out much more almost like Norman [TS]

  Rockwell like almost photo-real but [TS]

  what's funny is like it you know it [TS]

  isn't so much you're saying oh raw [TS]

  communism what you're saying [TS]

  dude is that oh how different is stolen [TS]

  from reagan right absolutely absolutely [TS]

  it was a response to Reaganism yeah and [TS]

  remember some of that Maoist art makes [TS]

  for some of the best to rule 34 porn if [TS]

  you're interested in searching for that [TS]

  I had no idea because it's gonna take to [TS]

  working on that letter of luggage strap [TS]

  if you take that hyper realistic but [TS]

  cartoony Chinese a like revolution art [TS]

  and you and you make it into porn [TS]

  Oh top shelf huh topshop if you're if [TS]

  you're into light and China as a nexus 4 [TS]

  porn I don't get a lot of japanese porn [TS]

  John I don't think that that's the [TS]

  Chinese that are making the porn out of [TS]

  it i think it I think that's because [TS]

  George offshore a little bit yeah [TS]

  they're outsourcing yeah anyway I always [TS]

  felt a kinship with that culture but I [TS]

  never thought of myself as a member of [TS]

  it because then I would leave that party [TS]

  and I would go across town to the party [TS]

  where everybody was wearing that first [TS]

  generation of patagonia fleece jacket [TS]

  yeah and they were all talking about [TS]

  waxing their boards and I felt also know [TS]

  that this is before it became the NPR [TS]

  look this is this is back when people [TS]

  actually wearing it to stay warm outside [TS]

  well when that was like when I was [TS]

  technical gear yeah or you know that [TS]

  that that that first generation or [TS]

  second generation of Patagonia north [TS]

  face was all meant to just be it will it [TS]

  hadn't become college kid close it was [TS]

  meant to be worn when you're getting [TS]

  some fucking bodacious there was a time [TS]

  when you can't count on this gear you're [TS]

  hanging hanging by a thread [TS]

  you're hanging by a thread sorry um and [TS]

  so I you know also I was a member of [TS]

  that community [TS]

  it just as much that the people that [TS]

  were you know that were like living on [TS]

  their longboards but i wasn't i also [TS]

  wasn't a member of that community [TS]

  anymore than i was a member of the [TS]

  research but you're welcome to visit [TS]

  unsane community I mean I was welcome i [TS]

  hope i thought of myself as well from [TS]

  everywhere and I still do and that's a [TS]

  part of you know what I hope is [TS]

  considered my charm you write that down [TS]

  huh [TS]

  but no one knows but it seems like a [TS]

  certain point in your life and I've [TS]

  certainly been this been this person [TS]

  where you arrive somewhere and you're [TS]

  pretty sure that at the very least the [TS]

  party has now officially started now [TS]

  that you're right but negeri it's [TS]

  everything but a name like a tribute to [TS]

  you right it's not quite a birthday [TS]

  party or a roast but like you are always [TS]

  the guest of honor where everything I [TS]

  feel like I'd be like that I feel like I [TS]

  absolutely for a long time would maybe [TS]

  even walk in the door and say it is it [TS]

  is started [TS]

  who wants coffee it is fucking started [TS]

  where is the canned ravioli [TS]

  let's get out until I saw until I met my [TS]

  match with a guy used to know who i'm [TS]

  out i was standing in the kitchen with [TS]

  him at a party and he was like this [TS]

  fucking party's boring and I was like [TS]

  yeah sorta and he reached over into the [TS]

  cupboard and pulled out a like an [TS]

  industrial-sized like gallon of honey [TS]

  and i was like no this is not gonna end [TS]

  well I was like what's gonna happen now [TS]

  he just grabbed the honey and he opened [TS]

  the honey up and poured it on his own [TS]

  head [TS]

  oh dear a gallon funny in the center of [TS]

  the kitchen and it was like well the [TS]

  party just got really interesting and [TS]

  I'm glad I'm not the guy covered in [TS]

  honey like this guy this guy took one [TS]

  for the team he made he made the party [TS]

  because that gonna be good for including [TS]

  him it wasn't good for anybody can [TS]

  discover with honey at a party [TS]

  yeah it wasn't good for the for the the [TS]

  homeowners know honey but that the 15 of [TS]

  us who were standing around and watched [TS]

  it happen it was unforgettable it really [TS]

  you know [TS]

  I'm how to go and get on the York to [TS]

  that would have been memorably it was [TS]

  basically it was a sheet he basically [TS]

  took a sweet shit on the floor and it [TS]

  took it took the party to another level [TS]

  and I'm still talking about 25 years [TS]

  later but uh but you know I also was a [TS]

  member of the like i was doing an improv [TS]

  then a like theater sports and all the [TS]

  animal thing I knew that all of those [TS]

  people in my theater sports troop were [TS]

  completely off the off of whatever your [TS]

  normal reservation would be right i mean [TS]

  a lot of them were religious lot of [TS]

  people at that time that I knew in [TS]

  theater and profit that kind of stuff [TS]

  that negatives just anecdotal but number [TS]

  of people I knew who are into that were [TS]

  into it like you know there's the people [TS]

  who read the key johnstone book and skip [TS]

  the section on masks and then there's [TS]

  people who really really read the [TS]

  section on masks like I'm more like the [TS]

  I want to make want to be the dell close [TS]

  guy I want to go be the upright citizens [TS]

  brigade guy and they're more into like [TS]

  no like this goes deeply into something [TS]

  about my mind and my psyche and find the [TS]

  people I knew in theater in in the late [TS]

  eighties were very also very into things [TS]

  like psychoanalysis and like having [TS]

  uncomfortable because they're kind of [TS]

  improv was more like to come in your [TS]

  house and ask you the most uncomfortable [TS]

  thing in the world which is like kind of [TS]

  your deal to I that is not really good [TS]

  at that a little bit of that a little [TS]

  bit about introduce you to be able to [TS]

  this is this is John be careful because [TS]

  in the next couple minutes he's going to [TS]

  try and find the thing you don't want [TS]

  him to know about its most gonna make [TS]

  you cry [TS]

  it's just so you know you can prevent it [TS]

  it's gonna happen I don't you know [TS]

  what's coming up the key was that I [TS]

  don't try it just is there [TS]

  the thing that they are the things that [TS]

  they least one other people to know [TS]

  about is just there on their face [TS]

  it's written on their face TI and and I [TS]

  wish that I did not have that that that [TS]

  that ability to see I wish I did not [TS]

  have that site i wish i could blind that [TS]

  I because it its it often is not a [TS]

  friend that's interesting though that is [TS]

  all very interesting overlap [TS]

  yeah right and and my theater sports [TS]

  troops especially given that it was at a [TS]

  Jesuit college had a lot of those people [TS]

  and all of that psycho analysis and all [TS]

  of that like hyper kinkiness was tied up [TS]

  in their 20-year old wrestling with [TS]

  their religion you know they were have [TS]

  they were they were a lot of them deeply [TS]

  Catholic and really really engaging [TS]

  their Catholicism through these you know [TS]

  like going into going into a [TS]

  psychoanalysis with solecism as your [TS]

  guide [TS]

  it's a guy's trip that's a lot of doors [TS]

  I wouldn't want to open its a heavy trip [TS]

  in the thing about the Jesuits and [TS]

  Jesuit schools is that that happened [TS]

  obviously have we've talked about this [TS]

  before half of the population are just [TS]

  jocks who are going to own pontiac [TS]

  dealerships and they're headed you know [TS]

  that's just where they go right for its [TS]

  for rich kids but half of the people are [TS]

  true intellectuals and Catholicism with [TS]

  that intellectual tradition got it gets [TS]

  suckled tangled up in people and they uh [TS]

  the conversations that we would have in [TS]

  the and the journeys we would go on [TS]

  because you know its theater sports or [TS]

  or improve so we would go on retreats [TS]

  together we were how do you rehearse [TS]

  improv right you just do it over and [TS]

  over and you just get inside one [TS]

  another's mind let's it's more like [TS]

  rehearsing tennis [TS]

  Yeah right right right and we would we [TS]

  would you know I would leave my like [TS]

  stoner metal party idea and the thing [TS]

  was i I never revealed any one of my [TS]

  groups i never revealed my membership in [TS]

  these groups to one another right I [TS]

  never tried to bring friends from one [TS]

  place and take him to another place so [TS]

  I'd be I'd be like stoner metal land and [TS]

  then be like all right you guys see [TS]

  later out just like you've got to get it [TS]

  going bros and then i would like shake [TS]

  it off get outside in the cold air take [TS]

  a deep breath check it off walk across [TS]

  town and then you know into some [TS]

  brightly lit lunch room where all these [TS]

  like super earnest intellectual Catholic [TS]

  kids were doing theater sports and be [TS]

  like hey guys [TS]

  now get given ok give me an animal [TS]

  alright great you give me a give me a [TS]

  u.s. forte was like those of the various [TS]

  genres all the different kungfu schools [TS]

  of improv I feel like theater sports was [TS]

  really was more serious i mean i like to [TS]

  think they're serious and like they'll [TS]

  close you know famously said you know [TS]

  you want to go for like what's real in [TS]

  this in the in the moment not don't go [TS]

  for the funny and I memory serves [TS]

  theater sports takes up the kind of an [TS]

  extreme it really does you're not [TS]

  supposed to be funny [TS]

  don't do bits know and the people that [TS]

  the people that would come into the to [TS]

  come try out for our group who are like [TS]

  wacky wacky it was like nope complete [TS]

  order we were all like really trying to [TS]

  get every time and cost though they're [TS]

  like my arm my niece is a does UCP in [TS]

  New York and like you come in and like [TS]

  you he paid to take classes that they're [TS]

  great you see these great let me know [TS]

  question please don't hurt my family but [TS]

  like you come in and you pay fees to [TS]

  take classes and pretty soon you're [TS]

  teaching classes and it's kind of like [TS]

  Arthur Murray is this pyramid scheme but [TS]

  it's an inverted comedy pyramid or [TS]

  triangle and this is what happened to me [TS]

  like after the first year our theater [TS]

  sports group was really really popular [TS]

  in spokane because there wasn't a lot [TS]

  going on in Spokane and people were mean [TS]

  we were selling out sort of the big [TS]

  theater at the college and selling [TS]

  tickets to the to the town not just to [TS]

  the college and the guy who came into [TS]

  town who was 24 and started this theater [TS]

  sports group was a coffee gots when you [TS]

  were there it was called guts look at [TS]

  gonzaga university theater sports [TS]

  that's right wow um he started we send [TS]

  out so i was in that first year of guts [TS]

  and then he this 24 year old guy and I [TS]

  think he was from Canada we had a [TS]

  meeting at the end of the year and we [TS]

  were all just so thrilled with ourselves [TS]

  and he was like I have to tell you [TS]

  but now that cuts is going now that now [TS]

  that my brother this project is often [TS]

  and is flying on its own [TS]

  I'm leaving you and going on to the next [TS]

  place and starting another theater [TS]

  sports somewhere else and i'm leaving [TS]

  you here to to grow kind of Johnny [TS]

  Appleseed Lone Ranger character that's [TS]

  right and we were all like what's no [TS]

  don't me because we were terrified of of [TS]

  changing any one element other sure [TS]

  because it was working and it will and [TS]

  we were all getting somewhere [TS]

  you know and and so he said so he he [TS]

  appointed me his successor as like [TS]

  leader of guts first first the second [TS]

  season and right away I became a monster [TS]

  like immediately I I he had like a [TS]

  despot in a way in a way i became a [TS]

  desperate because he had that he had [TS]

  this sort of that the beautiful thing [TS]

  which I which I am always trying to [TS]

  which I'm very attracted to and other [TS]

  people in which i'm always trying to [TS]

  discover the secret of which is this [TS]

  this open friendly attitude and a [TS]

  feeling where people are doing that [TS]

  either doing hard work but they but they [TS]

  don't resent the work because every time [TS]

  they look over at you you are smiling [TS]

  specifically at them and it takes a [TS]

  certain kind of personality very few [TS]

  people can't do that authentically yeah [TS]

  it really does take a certain [TS]

  personality and it is a kind of magic [TS]

  and we he somehow managed to keep that [TS]

  initial group of people that started [TS]

  this theater sports group [TS]

  he kept out he kept people out of it as [TS]

  much as he kept us together like part of [TS]

  keeping us together was but he curated [TS]

  it on [TS]

  that's interesting but like I'm having a [TS]

  small company right if you got to spend [TS]

  all that time with these people that [TS]

  chemistry and ability to not necessarily [TS]

  get along but field work together [TS]

  yeah is important to maintain yeah this [TS]

  message was a little culture there was a [TS]

  lot of love between us and there were [TS]

  people there were intercom petitions [TS]

  there are definitely people that were [TS]

  that had rivalries but whatever they [TS]

  also had a real family vibe and in that [TS]

  second year it seemed that the mandate [TS]

  that had been handed me was now open it [TS]

  up and make it bigger and invite [TS]

  everyone in and and turn it into [TS]

  something you know to spread the love [TS]

  you steve jobs in your john skelly right [TS]

  i think that a technical reference and I [TS]

  did the John I did the John Sculley [TS]

  thing which was i I ran it into the [TS]

  ground or try to and and and and I I [TS]

  didn't you know we we started having [TS]

  auditions for 422 just to bring new [TS]

  people in and because it was successful [TS]

  it attracted all be attention-starved [TS]

  SEO is michael douglas in a chorus line [TS]

  on a sitting there just the shadowy [TS]

  figure with curls smoke around his head [TS]

  and everybody's just gotta hope I get it [TS]

  don't forget it got Napoli that's who i [TS]

  thought of myself downs but the problem [TS]

  was that have choppers well we had [TS]

  because we were such an egalitarian [TS]

  group before that that our leader had [TS]

  been this outsider this guy with the [TS]

  mustache who came from canada and and he [TS]

  was he was one of these people with a [TS]

  big smile who just sort of made you feel [TS]

  like it was your idea but kept the thing [TS]

  on the rails and all of a sudden I was [TS]

  sitting in the back of the room with the [TS]

  beret shrouded in cigarette smoke going [TS]

  next next and these people can handle x3 [TS]

  i want to i want to be in theater sports [TS]

  I [TS]

  I was meant for the stage and it's like [TS]

  next and the other the other people in [TS]

  my original group were they didn't they [TS]

  they felt like what I was doing was not [TS]

  in the spirit of of the magic and I was [TS]

  like I'm trying to preserve the magic by [TS]

  keeping all these dorks out of our out [TS]

  of our special place and they were like [TS]

  no we need to have we need to invite [TS]

  everyone in and so I was like all right [TS]

  well fine then we'll how about these six [TS]

  guys they seem like you know they could [TS]

  join the group or whatever and they were [TS]

  like yeah and then those six people just [TS]

  like came in and and we're doing jazz [TS]

  hands all over the place and I was like [TS]

  no jazz hands know and have eventually [TS]

  let us just cut to the chase eventually [TS]

  I was deposed there was a was a coup [TS]

  there was a coup i arrived at a meeting [TS]

  that was that had obviously already know [TS]

  you're really good at knowing when [TS]

  you're walking into an intervention [TS]

  I've been two years you've gotten really [TS]

  good at that yeah but I'm I know what's [TS]

  gonna happen now [TS]

  at the time I had not had not had so [TS]

  many interventions yet and i walked into [TS]

  the room and I was like huh [TS]

  everybody's here already soon and it [TS]

  seems like everybody's all now you know [TS]

  I walked in and of course conversation [TS]

  stopped and everybody turned and looked [TS]

  at me and I was like oh this is going to [TS]

  be sitting in your chair and so you know [TS]

  it was i was given that i was given that [TS]

  choice we would like you to just be just [TS]

  be a member of the troupe again [TS]

  oh boy and not be our fearless leader [TS]

  are annually the american apparel guy [TS]

  but luckily I've you go buddy time for [TS]

  you to go but the end so the leadership [TS]

  is going to switch over into a [TS]

  democratic form where they're going to [TS]

  be four leaders how what could possibly [TS]

  go wrong and i was like i would rather [TS]

  burn [TS]

  I would rather burn i would rather burn [TS]

  this theater with all of us in it [TS]

  wouldn't be a member of this garbage [TS]

  this garbage arrangement and so I [TS]

  stormed I ran out into the snow and some [TS]

  and one of the girls chased me for chase [TS]

  me out into the field chain shame and I [TS]

  think it's not one I need a job what's [TS]

  the occupation ok pizza at one point I [TS]

  might have even tripped in the snow [TS]

  no John and I fell in the snow and yet [TS]

  the end and she she came and and try to [TS]

  console me it was all very dramatic but [TS]

  we were we were artists we as we were [TS]

  theater artists and then then I stayed [TS]

  away and then the final show of the [TS]

  season of guts year too [TS]

  i watch the show from high up in the [TS]

  rafters above the victim if you like a [TS]

  family over exactly like that happen and [TS]

  at one point during during a scene [TS]

  the girl who had chased me out into the [TS]

  snow my love interest on guts was doing [TS]

  was doing a scene and somebody said you [TS]

  know like give me an animal and it was [TS]

  like Amy goal and she looked up and you [TS]

  know pointed up in the middle of her of [TS]

  a scene like there goes the eagle and [TS]

  she pointed at me and then she saw me [TS]

  oh no she saw me hanging up in the ropes [TS]

  and and she looked and she made eye [TS]

  contact with me and big smile and i [TS]

  smiled down to her from five feet five [TS]

  stories up and it was just like my life [TS]

  really is a movie you slugged back to [TS]

  her organ room and it's my role the [TS]

  suite j and the rafter and i was like [TS]

  i'm i'm a member of no group everybody [TS]

  this dog and at me [TS]

  there's own don't know I'm just thinking [TS]

  of this now but and I something a few [TS]

  weeks ago turns out this story about [TS]

  where clicks are more likely to form and [TS]

  whether or not likely to form and it [TS]

  turns out part being that there aren't [TS]

  nearly as many clicks in like high [TS]

  schools as people would have you believe [TS]

  in the changes on this based on the size [TS]

  of the high school but you don't have to [TS]

  say there's this part of me that feels [TS]

  like so much of my idea [TS]

  this is so obvious and so don't but it's [TS]

  so much of what I think something like [TS]

  high school was supposed to look like I [TS]

  think was kind of largely based on John [TS]

  Hughes movies or things you know the [TS]

  things that movies that became that [TS]

  would be preceded it [TS]

  you know that they're real or even you [TS]

  know she treating the outsiders or [TS]

  whatever but I really got this idea of [TS]

  the different groups and things when you [TS]

  look back in retrospect there's a lot [TS]

  more subtle subtlety to it then you [TS]

  realize that the time you know that's [TS]

  why is that again i can show like freaks [TS]

  and geeks really captures that really [TS]

  captures the idea that now you may be [TS]

  striving to have these cooler friends [TS]

  but you still got your left school [TS]

  friends and and that I even that can [TS]

  change like suddenly your friend gets a [TS]

  growth spurt and becomes a sports star [TS]

  or something there's always ways with [TS]

  it's much more fluid than I remember it [TS]

  seeming at the time it all felt very [TS]

  carved in stone and we're retrospect I [TS]

  realize what a clusterfuck the whole [TS]

  thing was for everybody [TS]

  well and tribulations you know I'm [TS]

  saying that makes absolutely absolutely [TS]

  and in in high school at my high school [TS]

  experience was was was very John qz my [TS]

  college experience was where i got can [TS]

  make up very confused and I and I and I [TS]

  really didn't understand where I [TS]

  belonged in fact the college friends [TS]

  that I have still the the people I knew [TS]

  in college that are still friends of [TS]

  mine were the guys that I [TS]

  but I wasn't friends with in college [TS]

  really or or was it was it was a it was [TS]

  very fraught that you know because it [TS]

  because i was in school in spokane there [TS]

  was a whole component of the people that [TS]

  came to that school who were from [TS]

  Montana and North Dakota and Idaho who [TS]

  were mostly Catholics all Catholics um [TS]

  and by Alaskan standards they were they [TS]

  were clearly wild kids right they were [TS]

  from these towns these tiny Western [TS]

  towns where you would drive for seven [TS]

  hours to get to buildings like oh we [TS]

  gotta get you know we need a new part [TS]

  for the tractor well we got everybody in [TS]

  the truck and throw a couple of hay [TS]

  bales in the back for the kids and then [TS]

  we're going to drive for seven hours to [TS]

  get to buildings [TS]

  I mean that will do a job on you as a [TS]

  kid for sure and you know its water [TS]

  these 11 horse towns right like a-a-a-a [TS]

  western town with a main street makes um [TS]

  you have such different expectations and [TS]

  such different [TS]

  what's the word I'm looking for but it's [TS]

  like if you you know i remember the [TS]

  first in the first several times I went [TS]

  to Manhattan immediately experiencing [TS]

  experiencing having that feeling of hate [TS]

  that work contributes experienced [TS]

  something i had killers fire stop saying [TS]

  uh-huh um anyway I was heavily impacted [TS]

  / that feeling of options iety like we [TS]

  over the village voice and you know [TS]

  where as in back in Florida you plan [TS]

  ahead you know but what band you would [TS]

  see three weeks from now and you open up [TS]

  a paper and like just in the village [TS]

  voice like just within walking distance [TS]

  of where you are there's like 10 of your [TS]

  favorite bands playing right and any the [TS]

  result of that is if you're like me is [TS]

  just going to just sit here and if you [TS]

  watch golden girls or whatever right [TS]

  your brain turns to mush [TS]

  yeah yeah and I mean I wonder if is like [TS]

  people did that really nice really feel [TS]

  like the big city for somebody who's [TS]

  used to drive into Billings so I went [TS]

  back with so anyway these guys I thought [TS]

  of them as the Montana boys and they all [TS]

  had grey cowboy boots they all sort of [TS]

  dip snuff at is at a distance you would [TS]

  think that they were just pics just [TS]

  ignorant dummies but then you would meet [TS]

  them and you realize like oh shit this [TS]

  is this kid is the smartest kid from his [TS]

  town he is the kid from whatever town [TS]

  that got to spokane to go to college and [TS]

  that they can he achieve not to be [TS]

  unkind but he achieved escape velocity [TS]

  in a way that must seem impossible to a [TS]

  lot of other people [TS]

  yeah astonishing and so these guys were [TS]

  wise and they were they were sharp only [TS]

  have like somewhat grateful [TS]

  uh yeah well and also but also like [TS]

  again coming from a pretty religious [TS]

  background and from a very small [TS]

  initially very small world in which [TS]

  spokane was like big big world and um [TS]

  and so there was a lot of culture clash [TS]

  between us initially because even coming [TS]

  from Alaska I was much more worldly and [TS]

  honestly their initial take on me was [TS]

  that I was a fag right i mean you know I [TS]

  showed up in school and I was like [TS]

  everybody come on let's go away and I [TS]

  was wearing a bowtie whatever they were [TS]

  just like no thank you [TS]

  this guy is a queer and it was only [TS]

  through you know is only through my [TS]

  willingness to throw myself through a [TS]

  plate-glass window over time but they [TS]

  were like huh [TS]

  she's a pretty rowdy queer [TS]

  she's a pretty rowdy queer [TS]

  like that's right rowdy clear that is [TS]

  pretty much you got that right cowboy I [TS]

  second that's my drag name rally bowtie [TS]

  spin and so it ends up now that we're [TS]

  really good i'm still really good [TS]

  buddies with those guys because what [TS]

  because our relationship evolved over [TS]

  time in a way that they had a lot of [TS]

  suspicions about me and I had a ton of I [TS]

  thought I knew I thought I knew them to [TS]

  it that they were just hick Republican [TS]

  right you know nobody's and now I I like [TS]

  they're the ones that i still am close [TS]

  well and i have to i had that weird time [TS]

  at one point during college we went I [TS]

  went on a road trip with these guys to [TS]

  Sun Valley a car full of the Montana [TS]

  boys and they were bringing me along [TS]

  kind of like like a Nazca ya like hey [TS]

  we're gonna guess what we're all going [TS]

  to Sun Valley and we're taking the [TS]

  career [TS]

  what's that what could happen anything [TS]

  could happen [TS]

  we got to Sun Valley one of these guys [TS]

  had an uncle who lived in sun valley who [TS]

  took us into his house he's one of these [TS]

  guys walking around the house smoking a [TS]

  cigar tricks into the house and he had a [TS]

  walk-in safe full of machine guns [TS]

  it was like you guys want to see my guns [TS]

  and I was like yes and he what we walked [TS]

  through the bedroom and there's a vault [TS]

  like above a fucking volt and the door [TS]

  opens and you can walk in and is not [TS]

  just a heavy locked door it's like a [TS]

  solid of room an impenetrable room it's [TS]

  basically a I felt a bank vault or or [TS]

  what a panic room [TS]

  yeah but it's for that there's an [TS]

  arsenal in there and that was just the [TS]

  one that was just the one that was just [TS]

  the aspect of his house that he was [TS]

  willing to show his nephews college [TS]

  friends like she didn't see but as part [TS]

  of this road trip we went to we went to [TS]

  Butte Montana which um which you could [TS]

  charitably described as the asshole of [TS]

  the universe right i mean it's pretty [TS]

  bad there Richard he's elected [TS]

  hey i'm gerry did I think you did [TS]

  that's a Richard Hugo a reference my [TS]

  second finger at at at one minute [TS]

  exactly one hour exactly a rigid you [TS]

  know and what I want to let you know [TS]

  it's about an hour so don't start [TS]

  talking about politics i'll mention mr. [TS]

  Hugh ok alright that'll be our comes [TS]

  anyway you got that you got the gun safe [TS]

  you'll see it as guys will go we go to [TS]

  butte and we go to visit one of these [TS]

  guys is housed in butte and a lot of [TS]

  them were from Butte which you know it's [TS]

  not know I wouldn't call it a big town [TS]

  but it's a big town in an apartment [TS]

  government anyway this kid was from one [TS]

  of the best families in butte and their [TS]

  home was a beautiful home like with [TS]

  columns columns like stone columns as I [TS]

  felt like old money old money right [TS]

  gracious living room and a ver and the [TS]

  family very elegant family and likes [TS]

  that maybe there was silver money there [TS]

  and yet this gracious home which in San [TS]

  Francisco would be a 40 million dollar [TS]

  home is two blocks from the Berkeley pit [TS]

  in downtown butte downtown Butte which I [TS]

  still believe an enterprising software [TS]

  person could buy the entire town like [TS]

  the whole place just has a feeling of [TS]

  like a bomb went off in the center of [TS]

  the town which it did in the form of [TS]

  that silver mine and and the this [TS]

  contrast of like oh this this guy that I [TS]

  thought was just kind of like a western [TS]

  town dingaling [TS]

  is is from this incredible place this [TS]

  like beautiful this elegant gracious [TS]

  family in a gracious home in a town of a [TS]

  few thousand people really perched on [TS]

  the lip of the world and i have no way [TS]

  of understanding where he's from [TS]

  right you know like I think there's [TS]

  there was no way for me to really get my [TS]

  head around like just the contrasts just [TS]

  the study in contrasts of that one kids [TS]

  experience let alone that his uncle had [TS]

  a safe full of machine guns but you know [TS]

  it's fine yesterday I heard just a [TS]

  little bit of Jesse thorn interviewing a [TS]

  what's-his-name Offerman you know Ron [TS]

  Swanson oh yeah Keith Keith Keith [TS]

  nothing is it Keith Offerman now keep [TS]

  the read the sports guy i don't know i [TS]

  mean Ron Swanson from the curse curse [TS]

  his name is a million Ron Swanson and [TS]

  here down Nick Offerman Gary Gary Nick [TS]

  Gary he seems interviewing McGary this [TS]

  kind of famous he talked about how he's [TS]

  going out like there's this rep for [TS]

  being you know there's this manly man [TS]

  guy and yeah she got a mustache right [TS]

  he's the one exactly looks like an angry [TS]

  cat and he said he was raised and like [TS]

  rural ish i guess Illinois and long [TS]

  story short looks like you know [TS]

  everybody's talking like it's pretty [TS]

  funny to him because you know he yes he [TS]

  does own and have employees to do [TS]

  woodworking like he actually does you [TS]

  know make furniture and stuff [TS]

  many is like a manly man but also like [TS]

  he's the only one in his family that [TS]

  went to school for theater and took two [TS]

  semesters of ballet so you know it's the [TS]

  kind of thing where like I guess you're [TS]

  trying to say is that alright we're not [TS]

  he's a rowdy where g is probably jump [TS]

  through share plate-glass windows but i [TS]

  think part of it like getting in this [TS]

  just shows you how how productive i am I [TS]

  guess but sometimes it seems like except [TS]

  for the most tolerable people in your [TS]

  life you will have like a 1-bit [TS]

  description for almost everybody will be [TS]

  this 11 bit flips and you go oh he's a [TS]

  football jock [TS]

  or you know she's a theater nerd or you [TS]

  know he's he's a nerdy programmer or [TS]

  whatever and so must i think that's in [TS]

  order to survive you know with many many [TS]

  people around us like the older we get [TS]

  the more were instantly making one big [TS]

  decisions about people going oh you fit [TS]

  in this box you fit in that box you put [TS]

  in that box and there may be people [TS]

  where you get one bit plus a little bit [TS]

  of an axis where you go like oh like you [TS]

  know he's he's a and I get it he's a [TS]

  manly man actor but he also has taken [TS]

  ballet haha isn't that interesting but I [TS]

  think what happens is when you get too [TS]

  much past that one bit thing especially [TS]

  with strangers you quickly go from I get [TS]

  you because you're in this box to you [TS]

  are weird and weird is when you don't [TS]

  understand what feels like a conflict [TS]

  about to into your apprehension of [TS]

  somebody if you look at John Roderick [TS]

  and go like wow he sure he you eat he [TS]

  drinks a lot he dresses like a preppy he [TS]

  does theater sports and he was really [TS]

  trying to like make it with this girl in [TS]

  a turquoise belt like you know that just [TS]

  makes you weird because there's not one [TS]

  narrative that runs through all that [TS]

  apart from the fact that it was you that [TS]

  this isn't insightful but i think that [TS]

  that I think the I feel like the way you [TS]

  get raised in most mainstream American [TS]

  culture is to quickly go from 0 I get [TS]

  your one bit too like oh you're weird [TS]

  because I can't rock the multitude [TS]

  within you [TS]

  yeah well that's why i asked what if you [TS]

  are not a member of the tech community [TS]

  now if you are a member of the post tech [TS]

  community now just a quick what [TS]

  community are you would you describe [TS]

  yourself as most a member of my used to [TS]

  think of myself as a blogger i have [TS]

  thought of myself as a podcaster and [TS]

  what's interesting or useful about those [TS]

  is it both describes like what I do what [TS]

  I like and who I want to hang out with [TS]

  which i think is what a lot of those [TS]

  kinds of names means golden lager it [TS]

  doesn't get used to these two kind of [TS]

  mean something because like I had a [TS]

  pretty popular website and I knew people [TS]

  have popular websites and fucking cares [TS]

  but that's that real i think it's still [TS]

  true today kinda with podcasting i'm not [TS]

  super into that i'm not at all into the [TS]

  technical aspects of it [TS]

  I'm find that fatiguing but I really do [TS]

  enjoy the shandra [TS]

  I like the people who do that by and [TS]

  large and I don't like packet loss now [TS]

  see that's that's the kind of quality [TS]

  she got to actually worried about you i [TS]

  got a new modem [TS]

  oh really tell you about it later yeah [TS]

  three times faster than the other one [TS]

  can't wait to hear about it might need [TS]

  to talk about talk about that offline [TS]

  and now what about you because you seem [TS]

  em now we'll full but you seem like [TS]

  you're pretty well and you've heard me [TS]

  say before the one reason i admire Bob [TS]

  Dylan and I'm new young you name it [TS]

  either the kind of people who are like [TS]

  as soon as somebody put a label on them [TS]

  they're like oh you have no idea and [TS]

  then go into something else I i really [TS]

  admire that even with self-defeating I [TS]

  really admire people who are reluctant [TS]

  to be labeled by others and that seems [TS]

  to me a big narrative for you is you [TS]

  don't like people telling you you're a [TS]

  fan [TS]

  you don't like people telling you that [TS]

  your your this or that [TS]

  so what hard sometimes be part of a [TS]

  community because you seemed resistant [TS]

  to commit to one community [TS]

  yeah I i and and and particularly [TS]

  because arm because I always well yeah [TS]

  after three days or five days with any [TS]

  community of people i always go [TS]

  ok guys the guys get out of here see you [TS]

  later and then I go in there and I do [TS]

  some and I and I join another community [TS]

  for a little while and you know them [TS]

  there's this experience I've had in [TS]

  middle age of being embraced by the [TS]

  Nerds has been the the most because it [TS]

  because they're the Nerds embraced me in [TS]

  a way that was that was very different [TS]

  than indie rock like indie rock and rock [TS]

  and roll don't really embrace you [TS]

  or at least they didn't i didn't feel [TS]

  embraced exactly who you know like indie [TS]

  rock and rock and roll are things that [TS]

  you try to gain admission to and every [TS]

  step of the way you feel like every time [TS]

  you feel start to get a little [TS]

  comfortable like AI kind of belong here [TS]

  but unless you're some kind of like [TS]

  doing outsider art and getting name [TS]

  checked in [TS]

  interviews with rock stars it's [TS]

  difficult to say you know unless you are [TS]

  really being propped up by the industry [TS]

  and the money's in that industry is [TS]

  difficult to say you've been embraced by [TS]

  the community [TS]

  yeah right or or I mean if your John Doe [TS]

  who and everywhere you go you just feel [TS]

  like every every rock and roll situation [TS]

  you walk into you a s it you feel like [TS]

  you belong right i mean Debbie Harry [TS]

  also helps the heat doesn't mind if you [TS]

  don't know who he is [TS]

  it's like a wonderful quality of here [TS]

  and the amazing thing about John Doe is [TS]

  if you have no idea who he is he looks [TS]

  amazing right i mean you know where's [TS]

  he's genuinely super nice super nice and [TS]

  and like so John Doe everywhere he goes [TS]

  he talking about when I see him to talk [TS]

  to my daughter way more than he talks to [TS]

  me of course right that's understandable [TS]

  how do you feel like going to do that [TS]

  listen to this record in a way he's like [TS]

  the sam shepard of rock'n'roll right [TS]

  right right he's he's just these keys [TS]

  from another era and he any and so he [TS]

  belongs that I never felt when I would [TS]

  walk into rock and roll seen it and I [TS]

  feel like the that's something just it [TS]

  inherent in them in in the machine of [TS]

  rock-and-roll it's not meant to it's not [TS]

  meant to embrace everybody you it's it's [TS]

  an aspiration [TS]

  yes but with the nerds I was like no no [TS]

  thank you no thank you [TS]

  you know like walking through an airport [TS]

  and the harlingen friendagenda beyond [TS]

  you [TS]

  ya like like don't think you get it [TS]

  thank you and yet they were relentless [TS]

  and eventually I was like oh I guess I i [TS]

  am i am here i have my member of this is [TS]

  a great way to think of it I have so [TS]

  many fuckin beads on me now it's a [TS]

  little disingenuous to claim that i'm [TS]

  not a part of this gang but you know [TS]

  every week i have three or four [TS]

  gatherings even in seattle where I'm [TS]

  with a group of people that I consider [TS]

  my friends there's five or six of us we [TS]

  have a long history together we sit and [TS]

  talk about the old days and we make [TS]

  plans for something for the next thing [TS]

  that we're going to do [TS]

  and those people do not know really [TS]

  anything about the people that i'm going [TS]

  to go visit next and have that same [TS]

  experience with so so I still am a [TS]

  person that is extra community and that [TS]

  the the community whatever community it [TS]

  is i'm a member of I'm kind of the only [TS]

  member and that's not really at the [TS]

  description of a community really now so [TS]

  it's a yeah and and and and I wonder [TS]

  about it i wonder what's next and I and [TS]

  I and I wonder because of this idea of [TS]

  the artists and of the fact that i want [TS]

  to make art and I want it to be and I [TS]

  and I'm comfortable with the fact that [TS]

  I'm not a genius but I want my art to be [TS]

  good and the and that was a problem for [TS]

  years because I what I wanted to be [TS]

  initially was a genius and when you [TS]

  realize that you want to be recognized [TS]

  as such [TS]

  yeah right and just to make the thing [TS]

  that you're there to make and have [TS]

  people be like this is fucking genius [TS]

  and when you make the thing that you're [TS]

  there to make people go through that's [TS]

  pretty good what else you got [TS]

  yeah and you realize like oh ok I'm not [TS]

  a genius is very much how it is today [TS]

  what else you got right i mean you know [TS]

  what I mean it isn't like you can spend [TS]

  two years working on your latest magnum [TS]

  opus and then right on that like more [TS]

  and more it's like what what do you what [TS]

  are you doing wait on the last three [TS]

  months [TS]

  yeah that was pretty good that thing [TS]

  they made one time I was pretty good uh [TS]

  what else you got anything no I'm fine i [TS]

  like stuff on your 345 [TS]

  so what would your next likely today [TS]

  wait a minute you're supposed to be [TS]

  lionizing something I did ten years ago [TS]

  but the challenge and it seems that you [TS]

  know this is this is it handicapped me [TS]

  but I'm starting to recognize that that [TS]

  really that puts a lot more emphasis on [TS]

  the work you know and it and it makes it [TS]

  so that you have to really work hard to [TS]

  make the best thing you that you can [TS]

  and there is a line somewhere and I feel [TS]

  like I'm on it where if you do lazy work [TS]

  then what you're making just doesn't get [TS]

  over the hump [TS]

  if I if I rule and yourselves but [TS]

  there's also the sirens call and i don't [TS]

  want to sound cynical or like I'm being [TS]

  critical which I probably a.m. but the [TS]

  other thing to be careful of we joked a [TS]

  few weeks ago about like oh you know [TS]

  make sure you got a big philosophy for [TS]

  what you can do before ever fuckin make [TS]

  anything I mean the problem is that it [TS]

  with it's become extremely easy to have [TS]

  a community around anything which on the [TS]

  face of its really that's a great thing [TS]

  it's better than the other of the you [TS]

  know opposite but you could and I'm [TS]

  always you know having fun with the [TS]

  seduction community those guys that [TS]

  those kinds of groups but you can find [TS]

  yourself extremely involved in a very [TS]

  unproductive community [TS]

  I especially if it's something like a as [TS]

  i like to say Facebook group about [TS]

  creative productivity like that that's a [TS]

  that's a really interesting community [TS]

  and every second you spend with them is [TS]

  taking away from what your nominally [TS]

  there to be doing my research every time [TS]

  you're sitting there talking about how [TS]

  to make chix so you can bag and eight or [TS]

  whatever like you're sitting in a [TS]

  fucking computer talking to other men [TS]

  have included the seduction community [TS]

  but the fuck is wrong with you [TS]

  absolutely could you know you know that [TS]

  you don't know about negging no action [TS]

  community [TS]

  I don't know what seduction community is [TS]

  not as I feel I feel so much like I know [TS]

  everything that's that somebody is going [TS]

  to say and then you come out with [TS]

  something that I just have no not [TS]

  nothing that you just said has i have i [TS]

  heard anything about you should sign up [TS]

  for the forms seduction to me what you [TS]

  have 10,000 times officially a salami [TS]

  commander making chicks [TS]

  um yeah iiii iiii think about the [TS]

  ramones right who just did the same [TS]

  thing over and over for 40 years and [TS]

  that that thing was so great that but it [TS]

  was just they could just keep doing it [TS]

  and I and everybody wishes they were [TS]

  still alive so it was so elemental that [TS]

  the less they added to it the better god [TS]

  right right and I mean even liking [TS]

  adding adding one or two minor chords is [TS]

  fine but we do [TS]

  need a rock opera what we love about [TS]

  this is the two minutes of it now [TS]

  yeah two minutes and like don't don't [TS]

  get fucking to Petty and don't change [TS]

  her clothes and don't really just makin [TS]

  this song is a minute and 34 seconds all [TS]

  right and the last four seconds is fade [TS]

  out now I want to have something to do [TS]

  now i want to sniff some glue now we [TS]

  have something to do [TS]

  123456 and then play a different part [TS]

  make the first part that I don't usually [TS]

  do well so but so uh I just feel I feel [TS]

  increasingly like the group that i want [TS]

  to be a member of the the but the the [TS]

  real like culture or community that I [TS]

  want to be a part of is the community of [TS]

  people who are making good things that [TS]

  that no matter what you think about them [TS]

  or no matter what you think and and [TS]

  there and there's no pretense that it is [TS]

  that it's genius but that that you look [TS]

  at it and you go that is fucking [TS]

  well-made good job right [TS]

  um and that is a and that is a community [TS]

  that I guess is like across all all [TS]

  spheres and you don't you don't have [TS]

  meetings [TS]

  that's one of those internal ad-hoc [TS]

  backstage before you use the show you [TS]

  say oh yeah I like your stuff to all the [TS]

  great shows but you might actually mean [TS]

  it because you go out [TS]

  fuck you did that thing that was you [TS]

  like wow I mean that's my greatest [TS]

  reaction you can get from somebody can't [TS]

  believe you did that [TS]

  right right and and it's not it's not [TS]

  theirs meetings in dues and buttons and [TS]

  shit there's no you don't arrive you [TS]

  don't get to stay there [TS]

  yeah I don't commute very informal you [TS]

  don't sit around every saturday either [TS]

  it is very informal and it's kinda where [TS]

  I where I have felt I've been living a [TS]

  little bit on the phone that on the the [TS]

  fringe of you for a long time and and so [TS]

  yeah so this year I really hope to [TS]

  to focus on on that and and focus less [TS]

  on on feeling excluded and more on just [TS]

  making a place for myself in and the [TS]

  community of a of my aspirations [TS]

  it's pretty good you make that face book [TS]

  group between John the community John's [TS]

  aspirations [TS]

  listen the community of John's [TS]

  aspirations come on over we won't [TS]

  negatively chicks there is no rank of [TS]

  salami commander you get the mtn8 if you [TS]

  if you get to be an eight on that that [TS]

  community even your wingman [TS]

  he who are you could you get you get 24 [TS]

  cockblock experience points [TS]

  happy January 1901 a good day [TS]