Roderick on the Line

Ep. 141: "Al's Yacht"


  this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

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  collaboration with actor jeff bridges [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  hello a John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

  good [TS]

  is it early it's a little early i mean [TS]

  it's only know it's not early its normal [TS]

  normals this isn't this is right in the [TS]

  thick of normal time right now I'm I've [TS]

  never been comfortable with this time of [TS]

  day [TS]

  yeah it's very super duper duper duper [TS]

  normal [TS]

  yeah I as i was driving into town I am [TS]

  past a lot of trucks that are busy [TS]

  little bit busy facilitating commerce [TS]

  and just people walking around waving at [TS]

  each other it's a it feels really super [TS]

  real out there [TS]

  yeah but what if you had to identify if [TS]

  you can [TS]

  what is your power time of day like when [TS]

  do you really feel like you're most on [TS]

  your game is there a consistent time a [TS]

  day when you're like it's john time [TS]

  let's do this i'm guessing like ten [TS]

  o'clock ten pm-10 p.m. and i don't know [TS]

  i'm just guessing you seem like we we [TS]

  visited we should mention a little bit [TS]

  later maybe we had a little visit [TS]

  recently and you you're you're ready to [TS]

  go you're drinking coffee at eight [TS]

  o'clock you ready to go [TS]

  that's bad policy but yeah I you know I [TS]

  think that at between 8-11 p.m. i can [TS]

  handle whatever whatever you throw at me [TS]

  i start to taper off now [TS]

  nowadays i start to taper off around two [TS]

  am I used to taper off around four a.m. [TS]

  and you know I can't say that I I can't [TS]

  say that ten o'clock in the morning [TS]

  isn't an optimal time it's not but i but [TS]

  i feel i feel like i can't say it [TS]

  no I understand i don't have you here we [TS]

  we we were recording a little later than [TS]

  usual because i had a call at eight [TS]

  thirty and I really i would say blocked [TS]

  or faked but like I I'm sink recently [TS]

  not i don't know i got these stages and [TS]

  there was absolutely time when I could [TS]

  get up at four or five and be ready to [TS]

  go but I don't know something's [TS]

  happening i'm trying to sleep more and 8 [TS]

  30 is like not powerstroke time for me [TS]

  I realized this morning that you know I [TS]

  like to sleep for sure but more than [TS]

  anything I like to snuggle back in the [TS]

  covers [TS]

  after I should already be awake uh-huh [TS]

  that is the greatest feeling in the [TS]

  world and I and I will just burrow back [TS]

  down in there not even really trying to [TS]

  go back to sleep but just trying to [TS]

  avoid the you know the shit wave of the [TS]

  day even if the day is going to be [TS]

  filled with great thing i I'm so right [TS]

  there with you [TS]

  I just go right back just great snuggle [TS]

  back County doge coverage and wondering [TS]

  if I have some kind of depressive thing [TS]

  because i really like my bed more than [TS]

  ever and i think that's the kind of [TS]

  thing that depressed people say i really [TS]

  like my bed I mean it's I'm very very [TS]

  comfortable supine yeah well and and uh [TS]

  i think that you know they're all those [TS]

  people that feel like [TS]

  sleep is this you know mal adaptation [TS]

  because you know you do you lose a [TS]

  30-year day to it every single day of [TS]

  your life and if you look at your life [TS]

  is a like a limited amount of time here [TS]

  i could see where it would be [TS]

  frustrating will be frustrating feel [TS]

  like one third of it was just burned [TS]

  right on some Bologna but for those of [TS]

  us who feel like you're a either gonna [TS]

  live forever or B are going to be [TS]

  bio-engineered by by UFOs to live [TS]

  forever feels like that third of your [TS]

  life that you're spending just sort of [TS]

  powering down is absolutely a necessity [TS]

  and and not just a necessity but like [TS]

  some of the best times of some of the [TS]

  greatest times I I agree and I don't [TS]

  know I've been interested in watching uh [TS]

  I think especially in the last Lisa and [TS]

  I've been aware of in the last like 10 [TS]

  years there's been a lot of interest in [TS]

  all these the sleep packing right all [TS]

  these different ways that you could take [TS]

  these little naps trying to split up [TS]

  into two or three sleeps a day there's [TS]

  the people saying now that you know [TS]

  until very recently like the eighteen [TS]

  hundreds or second sleep [TS]

  yeah you know about [TS]

  asleep I'm all over second sleep you [TS]

  tell people what that means i think it's [TS]

  an interesting idea [TS]

  well then that in a time before [TS]

  electricity right you would go to bed [TS]

  wooden when the when the Sun went down i [TS]

  go to bed at like 730 or eight ya go to [TS]

  sleep you sleep in and then sometime in [TS]

  the middle of the night you wake up [TS]

  refreshed and you have this interregnum [TS]

  in the middle of the night between 11 [TS]

  and 3 or something or made 12 12 12 and [TS]

  it's like you know people used to be [TS]

  awake and I've read people saying that [TS]

  like from like 12 2 people just wake up [TS]

  they would they would talk to people [TS]

  getting everybody all the adults would [TS]

  wake up and you can have your sexual [TS]

  intercourse then hmm you don't know [TS]

  visit with your neighbors it with your [TS]

  neighbors exactly [TS]

  yeah it's kind of a kind of a hot time [TS]

  kind of a kind of a kind of like I i [TS]

  imagine if I were truly living in a [TS]

  second sleep dominated culture that I [TS]

  would rule the selection second sleep [TS]

  era hours i would be one that's right i [TS]

  would really be on fire during that time [TS]

  that's when he starts to be that's when [TS]

  you start scheduling your calls [TS]

  that's exactly right and the thing is [TS]

  you know that's it's not when you're [TS]

  gonna you're probably not during your [TS]

  your your midnight hour probably not [TS]

  gonna be roaming around the town you're [TS]

  probably gonna be confined to your [TS]

  neighborhood but that's when you really [TS]

  get to know your your core people [TS]

  yeah that's what Gary I wouldn't be [TS]

  visiting with Gary I would be out i'll [TS]

  be going to matchmake would be out fire [TS]

  hosing Gary but you know it's a like I i [TS]

  routinely throughout my whole life have [TS]

  spent those precisely those hours 12-2 [TS]

  12 to 23 those were my roaming times [TS]

  that was when i was out screwing around [TS]

  and like you know peering over fences [TS]

  and and learning about the world [TS]

  you know as crazy as you think about I [TS]

  think about when I was in college and [TS]

  those college and just right after [TS]

  college which was my peak doing stuff [TS]

  years ago I was always doing something I [TS]

  was going somewhere i'll go to places in [TS]

  a day [TS]

  likely because you got you a lot to do a [TS]

  lot to do [TS]

  oh I was the dread pirate roberts had [TS]

  that thanks to accomplish but you know I [TS]

  remember first hearing that phrase disco [TS]

  nap for somebody to say oh we're going [TS]

  out tonight I gotta catch a disco now [TS]

  you know and in my apartment that meant [TS]

  you would lay down at six or seven [TS]

  o'clock sleep 4 1230 hours hopefully [TS]

  awake refreshed and then go out and tear [TS]

  the house down [TS]

  well you know that's the Spanish model [TS]

  right to sleep today they really [TS]

  everything kind of just everything [TS]

  really shut down in the afternoon is [TS]

  that like a thing that really it used to [TS]

  be a fan I think spain now feels a lot [TS]

  of pressure from the rest of the [TS]

  european community to to standardize [TS]

  their practices that people are still [TS]

  blogging during those hours [TS]

  well yeah I'm i imagine that there's [TS]

  still quite a bit of blogging but when i [TS]

  first went to Spain in the eighties it [TS]

  completely shut down in the afternoon [TS]

  but that was because everybody partied [TS]

  until four o'clock in the morning right [TS]

  and then also got up it and open their [TS]

  shops and in the morning so then yeah [TS]

  the afternoon they just call everybody [TS]

  else do you feel like these you feel [TS]

  like these hacks thusly packs are good [TS]

  ok you know it's not a man I i have i've [TS]

  got i got real mixed feelings about it [TS]

  because i am very I don't know here's [TS]

  think maybe we've evolved maybe it is as [TS]

  you say a male adaptation because you [TS]

  know but they're even going on the sleep [TS]

  stuff there are so many people trying to [TS]

  find out the truth about how we should [TS]

  be living rice so on the one hand you've [TS]

  got to get you actually read the paleo [TS]

  book no okay well you're good i'm not [TS]

  interested [TS]

  I i counted ten chapters before they [TS]

  talked about what you should buy at the [TS]

  grocery store because it was so [TS]

  jam-packed full been misremembering this [TS]

  but I remember it being like okay you [TS]

  sold me i bought the book tell me what [TS]

  to buy everybody know they had to walk [TS]

  you through all of this science about k [TS]

  and fire and light and like they really [TS]

  felt like that got to set this up not [TS]

  unlike in some ways like the Atkins diet [TS]

  to diets in that case that really to [TS]

  lifestyles especially paleo spend a [TS]

  lifestyle it's it's all of the enemy [TS]

  gets into your sleep it gets into [TS]

  exercise it gets into beyond what you [TS]

  eat but like the variety of what you eat [TS]

  and why because that's the way our [TS]

  Paleolithic ancestors supposedly lived [TS]

  setting aside whether or not that's [TS]

  necessarily a good model for somebody in [TS]

  the 21st century [TS]

  haha alright i think people are very [TS]

  interested in that and here's the thing [TS]

  with sleep is is what I was just gonna [TS]

  say minute ago I feel like you know it's [TS]

  like if you have never been without a [TS]

  certain kind of malady you might not see [TS]

  it as a malady you see it as a condition [TS]

  of life right now so if you if you've [TS]

  never had great vision you go OK vision [TS]

  is good enough right but then my glasses [TS]

  and you're like holy shit like this is a [TS]

  I can see things now like I got any [TS]

  lines and things this isn't it amazing [TS]

  bitten by a radioactive spider and you [TS]

  can see infrared that's right you're [TS]

  like a daughter uses all right by [TS]

  climbing up a building and and I guess [TS]

  what I'm getting at is the i often [TS]

  wonder there are so many people I've met [TS]

  who could pay lip service to sleep and [TS]

  i'm asleep obsessive but there are so [TS]

  many people who pay lip-service sleeps [TS]

  we're going to good sleep they never do [TS]

  and I wonder how many of those people [TS]

  have never actually gotten the benefits [TS]

  of getting a decent amount of sleep and [TS]

  they're just big grown accustomed to [TS]

  being constantly shagged out so I think [TS]

  having the conversation about whether [TS]

  there are things we can do better is [TS]

  good i tend to start scooping toward the [TS]

  door when too much science or science [TS]

  gets introduced don't know [TS]

  now listen there is nobody in the world [TS]

  who loves constructing a theory based on [TS]

  two books he read and an intro to [TS]

  anthropology class that he took in the [TS]

  eighties hey more than me right I i love [TS]

  that shit I like to walk in the forest [TS]

  and see a rock and say you know [TS]

  that rock probably insert bullshit [TS]

  theory here [TS]

  igneous and so so on the one hand like [TS]

  the all these movements the paleo [TS]

  movement the like pad heritage chicken [TS]

  crowd the simple chickens in the yard [TS]

  yeah but we got here not shit not just [TS]

  chickens you don't want to just go out [TS]

  and get some dumb chicken from Purdue [TS]

  you want to have a chicken that's got [TS]

  like fur write some chicken some some [TS]

  chicken that has bet as only a few small [TS]

  pockets still exists on the shetland [TS]

  islands and you can buy one for seven [TS]

  hundred dollars like a punk rock chicken [TS]

  now it's kind of it's kind of fucked up [TS]

  looking like a smile his chicken where [TS]

  they can't walk and it's wet its its its [TS]

  eggs or orange little bit list but uh [TS]

  but it's a fantastic you know that you [TS]

  see though there are places in portland [TS]

  where you walk into the yard and you're [TS]

  like someone has has a has used sorcery [TS]

  to animate mop heads and they're running [TS]

  around this yard and then you realize oh [TS]

  shit those are chickens the chickens [TS]

  that look like a that you know that look [TS]

  like sheep dogs anyway heritage chickens [TS]

  all these movements beard oil i feel [TS]

  like i had feel like in a way i support [TS]

  the the premise which is which is you [TS]

  know this that the idea that humans have [TS]

  been around only so long we spent 99% of [TS]

  that time adapting to a certain kind of [TS]

  world and then in recent memory [TS]

  we just completely invented a whole new [TS]

  way of living and now we expect [TS]

  ourselves to be able to live in this new [TS]

  way I support that [TS]

  yeah I'm going down i am actually down [TS]

  with certain aspects of that big time [TS]

  yeah but the but the problem for me is [TS]

  when somebody starts being prescriptive [TS]

  and prescriptive [TS]

  about like actual what time to wake up [TS]

  in the morning and what combination of [TS]

  foods to eat because that does as you [TS]

  say that veers into pseudoscience or [TS]

  like we used a a spectrograph to [TS]

  identify the contents of the of that [TS]

  Austrian mummy that they found in a [TS]

  glacier whose name is spayed soul or [TS]

  something i forgot what they called him [TS]

  but urien oh ah ah ah be special [TS]

  anyway this guy you know they have he [TS]

  realized that he had that his stomach [TS]

  contained you know five different kinds [TS]

  of millet and some shoe leather and then [TS]

  yeah we should be eating shoe leather [TS]

  yeah they are just much trained monkeys [TS]

  none by the electric system I you so i [TS]

  don't know i don't know where the line [TS]

  is Merlin between you and me [TS]

  advising people to you know to think [TS]

  outside the box right and and you know [TS]

  and the point at which somebody offers [TS]

  us a book deal to put all of our ideas [TS]

  into into like a life system i know [TS]

  everyone box issues that should give us [TS]

  a you to contract at which point we [TS]

  would be obligated to start talking [TS]

  about this stuff like we really new and [TS]

  really a plan yeah exactly right and the [TS]

  inside here's here's one like I guess [TS]

  met a point that is if you think about [TS]

  it like everybody's got their reasons [TS]

  for everything and it's funny how few [TS]

  things important this could be partly [TS]

  because of our kind of argumentative [TS]

  culture it could be about identity [TS]

  politics but it's kind of funny how how [TS]

  few people are content to just shrug and [TS]

  go yeah you know it's a thing i do I [TS]

  like it and I don't know if i'll always [TS]

  liked it i'm not really worried about it [TS]

  like it's just the thing i'm doing i [TS]

  know that if i get more sleep and I try [TS]

  to get 10,000 steps a day and I avoid [TS]

  eating massive amounts of bread and [TS]

  drinking huge beers you know I don't [TS]

  need a scientist to tell me that makes [TS]

  me feel a little better and I don't need [TS]

  a persuasive theory or paper to prove it [TS]

  like wrong wrong you have got them here [TS]

  yeah i got the data right here yeah yeah [TS]

  but you know there are some things like [TS]

  you know one thing we've that other [TS]

  program that that you've been on we [TS]

  talked about is that I in this is not [TS]

  directed toward you because I know you [TS]

  like to look at ebay in bed but i do [TS]

  think for example the way we expose [TS]

  ourselves to light can actually have a [TS]

  big impact personally like I like the [TS]

  room to be really dark i try to minimize [TS]

  the amount this doesn't work very well [TS]

  because the TV but i try to minimize the [TS]

  amount of bright blue light i get before [TS]

  bedtime because I think that's telling [TS]

  my brain to be awake [TS]

  that's what I I you know there's [TS]

  probably tons of science on that I just [TS]

  feel like anecdotally for me you know [TS]

  like so much stuff in life i can go if I [TS]

  do this rather than that [TS]

  this tends to work out better I don't [TS]

  have a paper for it but that's just the [TS]

  thing i do and for the most part most of [TS]

  my I mean if it were not for this [TS]

  program where you and I have discussed [TS]

  some some large quantity of the ins and [TS]

  outs of both of our lives in such a way [TS]

  that it cannot it can no longer be [TS]

  claimed that i that i am a secret from [TS]

  the world but there are still a lot of [TS]

  things that I just keep quiet about [TS]

  because to even say them out loud is to [TS]

  be is to suggest that you are advancing [TS]

  a theory when in fact you're just you [TS]

  know I like to just say things out loud [TS]

  i like to just say ideas out loud and [TS]

  see see what happens and for me I [TS]

  honestly discovered seven years ago that [TS]

  I just can't have a TV [TS]

  I can't have one that isn't it's not a [TS]

  moral problem i odd that i have with [TS]

  other people adore I mean it kind of [TS]

  ends up being one because the TV versus [TS]

  non TV people are at such great odds [TS]

  with each other and the TV people are [TS]

  the majority and they really are [TS]

  defensive like any somebody it like it's [TS]

  like religion or anything we're like [TS]

  just the fact that you quietly are doing [TS]

  something differently from somebody else [TS]

  for whatever reason is tacitly something [TS]

  to be attacked and fixed by the outright [TS]

  and whatever that it does that's the [TS]

  thing is the people i think what you're [TS]

  saying if I get it is like it doesn't [TS]

  matter what that thing is it could be [TS]

  anything no matter what you do you [TS]

  should never fucking do John Roderick [TS]

  never post a screenshot [TS]

  of the homepage on your iPhone because [TS]

  you are gonna hear from every single [TS]

  person in the world about like what an [TS]

  idiot you are [TS]

  for every decision that you've made why [TS]

  don't you put their what you have that [TS]

  happen when you have two apps [TS]

  why would you put in a footer why would [TS]

  you put that in a folder i like to keep [TS]

  around open at the bottom there under [TS]

  derp I feel like people who follow me [TS]

  enough to look at a picture that I [TS]

  posted on my home screen wouldn't [TS]

  realize that I was completely [TS]

  unreceptive tonight kind of talk that [TS]

  way to me would try it so it is with [TS]

  something like that is it's so innocent [TS]

  and like I just at the risk of repeating [TS]

  here it feels like you know I mean I i [TS]

  had this realization a few years ago [TS]

  that when it comes to stuff like social [TS]

  media that it's like to think it's about [TS]

  you know what you have to say but the [TS]

  thing that makes it social rather than [TS]

  just media is that it's really about [TS]

  what other people have to say about you [TS]

  know anything any utterance becomes [TS]

  grist for any kind of a weird ax to [TS]

  grind and it immediately becomes this [TS]

  toxic game of telephone we're like all [TS]

  the sudden now like your account of [TS]

  revolutionary because you have Calendar [TS]

  apps people who haven't read the thing [TS]

  that you wrote only but but only read [TS]

  the comments that other people had on it [TS]

  are making assessments about what you [TS]

  said and what you mean if you are [TS]

  yeah that I get that a lot actually [TS]

  people you know people on Twitter that [TS]

  don't follow me and have obviously not [TS]

  read the thing that other people are [TS]

  yelling at me about and they just pile [TS]

  on yelling at me you know they and those [TS]

  people are always the amplifiers right [TS]

  the ones yeah well my friend down [TS]

  Stephen Frank is a developer and he he [TS]

  had a pretty popular blog and he turned [TS]

  on comments and got frustrating so he [TS]

  wrote a little thing that said okay come [TS]

  in and you hit post comment and you go [TS]

  to this you go to a page and it says [TS]

  okay here's something like this is [TS]

  something like here's five sentences [TS]

  which two of these sentences appeared in [TS]

  my article haha oh good you have [TS]

  correctly answered that it yet that [TS]

  correctly answer that question in order [TS]

  to be able to post a comment oh that's [TS]

  so good it's so good i feel like that [TS]

  should be a test that should be at a [TS]

  blanket test on the Internet [TS]

  but I I I get in I i get in a lot of hot [TS]

  water [TS]

  uh about our contemporary culture [TS]

  because obviously i love it obviously [TS]

  i'm participating in it I really but but [TS]

  I have I have I have threshold so i have [TS]

  i have bomb like I'm I'm only willing to [TS]

  go so far and and it does feel sometimes [TS]

  like I am secretly practicing a Quaker [TS]

  religion or some other you know or a [TS]

  sect us a sect of Quakerism and to say [TS]

  even the most mundane thing about how i [TS]

  actually live is to be a is to be [TS]

  judging and criticizing the way everyone [TS]

  else agrees is the proper large one is [TS]

  I'm saying a declarative statement here [TS]

  so part one of that is therefore [TS]

  everyone who isn't doing this the way [TS]

  that I'm doing it is doing it wrong and [TS]

  PE please feel free at this point to [TS]

  jump in and tell me what I'm doing wrong [TS]

  in life write that article i wrote a [TS]

  couple of whatever that was about not [TS]

  being a fan [TS]

  yeah the number of replies I got to that [TS]

  that where the where the gist of the [TS]

  reply was you are an unfun person you [TS]

  don't know how to have fun and I feel [TS]

  sorry for you for not being able to have [TS]

  fun [TS]

  I mean that that was a that was maybe [TS]

  one of the top five [TS]

  like most favorite or something or no no [TS]

  not me know a top-five a team at akali [TS]

  came on with once came up came up a lot [TS]

  of times I mean it's just I wrote an [TS]

  article one time about like people think [TS]

  that rock musicians are like you know [TS]

  they get laid all the time and are like [TS]

  sex teens but in fact here's what an [TS]

  actual day looks like for a rock [TS]

  musician and there's not actually [TS]

  there's not really a lot of time to do [TS]

  drugs and and uh you know and have [TS]

  intercourse no more than any other [TS]

  brilliant business person [TS]

  yeah right here you are the account as [TS]

  accounts get more pussy than Sinatra [TS]

  certain accounts but you know at [TS]

  at two o'clock in the morning you are [TS]

  schlepping your gear out to a cold van [TS]

  and thinking about where the motel is [TS]

  you're gonna stay and so I wrote this [TS]

  article and I got a lot of great replies [TS]

  from other rock musicians saying thank [TS]

  you my god thank you for saying what we [TS]

  all know but no one believes right but [TS]

  then I got a ton of a that this was this [TS]

  is back to your your seduction community [TS]

  lot of replies from people they're just [TS]

  like well you just obviously don't know [TS]

  how to close the deal you don't know how [TS]

  to knit chicks like I don't [TS]

  apparently that's what all the way thank [TS]

  you for your text but also uh yeah i [TS]

  don't i don't know how to have fun [TS]

  either because i'm not a fan of but that [TS]

  you know you're our unity you know it's [TS]

  I can see why people disagree with you i [TS]

  guess i can see why people get mad but [TS]

  like it's like I I at one point I i just [TS]

  i would get so frustrated with this a [TS]

  certain kind of attitude and I know it's [TS]

  not intentional but when you say that [TS]

  hey here's a here's my 10 favorite songs [TS]

  of the year [TS]

  I'm full of joy and down and like most [TS]

  your comments will begin with you forgot [TS]

  no I don't forget it i didn't put on [TS]

  there it's my list [TS]

  it's just these are 10 things i like is [TS]

  that problematic [TS]

  yeah yeah you forgot this thing that's [TS]

  the opposite of all those things that [TS]

  you listed and then somebody goes to [TS]

  Selena guys let's go find saying [TS]

  somebody said something like you know [TS]

  why why didn't you use this particular [TS]

  Mac application or like you know why [TS]

  didn't you become a video blogger and my [TS]

  understanding responses I don't know why [TS]

  am I not a potted fern like how how do [TS]

  you say why you didn't do something and [TS]

  then you have a conversation about that [TS]

  like why didn't you put your this [TS]

  application in this place on the phone [TS]

  yeah that's like it because I'm a bad [TS]

  person why didn't I go to the Air Force [TS]

  Academy and then become a lieutenant [TS]

  colonel [TS]

  I can totally grasp tell you now I feel [TS]

  like I feel like what one of the prob [TS]

  not problems but I opportunity stakes [TS]

  opportunity stakes [TS]

  Oh a big part of the enthusiasm i have [TS]

  for interacting with the culture comes [TS]

  out of out of like deep memory of [TS]

  feeling outside and wrong for years and [TS]

  years and years just feeling out of step [TS]

  with my peers just like there's never [TS]

  anywhere where you go oh I have found my [TS]

  place for me know that's what i'm saying [TS]

  i like that no matter even in the most [TS]

  hospitable environment I've still always [TS]

  felt like an outsider and I think that [TS]

  that is not typical of people I feel [TS]

  like most people do feel like they find [TS]

  their place and are in their place or or [TS]

  or due to a greater degree than I am [TS]

  because they play team sports and they [TS]

  are made go on the internet and talk [TS]

  about their favorite TV shows with each [TS]

  other I mean I I go on I when I bought [TS]

  my suburban I was like on the chevy [TS]

  truck blogs trying to figure out above [TS]

  about what kind of differential oil i [TS]

  wanted to use it seems so simple and the [TS]

  guys the guys that are on there I'm you [TS]

  know posting 40 times a day just about [TS]

  like what kind of torque wrench you want [TS]

  to use you realize like oh these people [TS]

  have found their duck they are here and [TS]

  and what they have a tremendous [TS]

  knowledge about how to rebuild the [TS]

  undercarriage of a of a vintage truck [TS]

  and they're here all day like they can [TS]

  they got all the time in the world right [TS]

  to talk about this stuff and that so [TS]

  when I when i'm interacting with the [TS]

  culture i feel i feel like my success [TS]

  let's call it success at navigating at [TS]

  navigating the handicaps that I had as a [TS]

  as a young person there were a lot of [TS]

  times in the course of my life where I [TS]

  was at a crossroads and it was very [TS]

  clear to me that I could I could go the [TS]

  wrong way and be [TS]

  permanent drug addict a dead person a up [TS]

  am a worse than that like a bitter guy [TS]

  who had compromised just a few small [TS]

  compromises but that resulted in me [TS]

  doing something that I didn't want to do [TS]

  the rest of my life and then not being [TS]

  able to turn left right let alone u-turn [TS]

  yeah i mean that part of part of it is [TS]

  like to have to have realized in [TS]

  retrospect that you have rung the bell [TS]

  they can't be on wrong right that you [TS]

  are that you are now bound by [TS]

  commitments and chains that prohibit you [TS]

  from from or or or you feel prohibit you [TS]

  from doing anything to change your life [TS]

  except make an incredibly dramatic [TS]

  gesture right like my grandfather made [TS]

  multiple correct incredibly dramatic [TS]

  gestures to the effect of like going out [TS]

  for a pack of cigarettes are not coming [TS]

  back [TS]

  and every time I open the newspaper and [TS]

  there's a story about somebody that's [TS]

  like well it was a murder-suicide they [TS]

  killed themselves their four kids and [TS]

  their wife and it's just like well they [TS]

  obviously didn't see that there was some [TS]

  other thing they could have done and [TS]

  that's you know that's tragic and [TS]

  obviously in my case I wouldn't have [TS]

  resorted to something like that but [TS]

  there were so many times along the way [TS]

  where I was out of step with the world [TS]

  and the choice eventually was to either [TS]

  say well the world is right and so I [TS]

  have to die a little and be part of the [TS]

  world or to say every time as exhausting [TS]

  as this is as as much at as much as this [TS]

  feels like punishment i have to get up [TS]

  and do that and follow my instinct [TS]

  against the world and ideally I don't [TS]

  like it kind of had you one over the [TS]

  other [TS]

  it had to you know because too because [TS]

  to do the thing to to make even the [TS]

  initial compromise of like well isn't [TS]

  there a way that I can be myself and be [TS]

  in the world who is just is to just go [TS]

  with the world you know that is to two [TS]

  step is to decide that the world is [TS]

  right [TS]

  and that somewhere within the world I [TS]

  can carve out some little cubby for [TS]

  myself and you can't I mean it if you're [TS]

  if you made a certain way right you have [TS]

  to just say no in this situation I am [TS]

  going to not presume that I'm right in [TS]

  the world is wrong but just presume that [TS]

  the world is on a separate on a on a [TS]

  parallel track and I have to honor I [TS]

  have to honor my instincts because [TS]

  because i do I did work hard to to train [TS]

  myself I did I did educate myself and [TS]

  now it's telling me to go this way and I [TS]

  have to honor them so I do consider that [TS]

  a success because I'm here now and all [TS]

  of the all of the frustration and the [TS]

  bitterness i have it I still I still can [TS]

  reflect and imagine what it would've [TS]

  been like if at 32 years old I'd said [TS]

  well i have to give up playing rock [TS]

  music it's not working out or well you [TS]

  know I should I should marry this girl [TS]

  or well you know this is I you know [TS]

  really i'm giving being given an [TS]

  opportunity to train to be a stockbroker [TS]

  and that's an opportunity that I would [TS]

  be a fool to turn down who and so I'm [TS]

  going to go into the stockbroker [TS]

  training programs almost like the world [TS]

  is maybe not the world is [TS]

  unintentionally casting you to say like [TS]

  okay well we think you're ready for this [TS]

  2 testily set aside childish things or [TS]

  however you want to think of it but to [TS]

  if you can let go of this part of you [TS]

  then now you get to belong and you get [TS]

  to be part of this system [TS]

  yeah are you ready for that right and [TS]

  and over and over like that what the [TS]

  opportunity to join the military when I [TS]

  was young [TS]

  it's it's really cut and dried at that [TS]

  age it's like do you have money for [TS]

  college [TS]

  do you have do you want to be a success [TS]

  in life where you want to be some some [TS]

  flop [TS]

  and thanks to everyone you want [TS]

  insurance a college education and become [TS]

  a homeowner or do you want to just hope [TS]

  this gas station attendant job really [TS]

  picks up [TS]

  yeah I'm for a lot of people that's very [TS]

  seductive my stockbroker trainer [TS]

  training program i was working as a [TS]

  clerk in a stock brokerage a brokerage [TS]

  firm rather called Piper Jaffray and I [TS]

  was the place where they kept all the [TS]

  documents on the best floor [TS]

  yeah that's right and I was you know and [TS]

  I was the clerk and it and they kept [TS]

  giving me more and more responsibility [TS]

  and pretty soon I was taking 14 million [TS]

  dollars worth of bearer bonds down to [TS]

  the bank and you know and I had [TS]

  relationships with all these people that [TS]

  I had relationships with the people at [TS]

  the at the financial desk at the bank [TS]

  and I had a new some of our clients i [TS]

  was starting to make my way up in this [TS]

  firm and I was drinking it on drugs and [TS]

  and and very very very much like living [TS]

  in that world as a kind of you know in [TS]

  that in that way we're like I'm just [TS]

  working on my novel man you know i'm [TS]

  here i'm doing this work but i'm just [TS]

  watching you people who actually work [TS]

  here because i'm working on my i'm [TS]

  working on on on another level [TS]

  yeah almost like they have kind of given [TS]

  up or something well or just you know I [TS]

  wit or committed [TS]

  yeah i was 25 years old and I had all [TS]

  the had all the arrogance of a 25 year [TS]

  old who felt like yeah you guys you know [TS]

  you work in an office I come to an [TS]

  office to get to gather material you [TS]

  work in an office and I'm a person but [TS]

  then they started doing the thing where [TS]

  like you you're great at this he would [TS]

  make a great broker have you ever [TS]

  considered being a broker [TS]

  Wow and I was like well i think probably [TS]

  yes i had i think it because i have [TS]

  considered doing every job and I imagine [TS]

  because i'm gonna live forever that of [TS]

  course i would be a stockbroker at some [TS]

  point and they were like well let you [TS]

  know that we do have a broker training [TS]

  program and you kind of have a leg up [TS]

  you would be able to kind of walk right [TS]

  into this [TS]

  Wow and I was like [TS]

  this seems pretty dynamic like this is [TS]

  an exciting turn of events and so as [TS]

  part of the as part of the like [TS]

  enticement they said well there's gonna [TS]

  be a little party on al algae ott this [TS]

  weekend [TS]

  al being one of the older established [TS]

  brokers how do you want to come to the [TS]

  party [TS]

  I mean you're you'll be the youngest guy [TS]

  there young guy but but but you know you [TS]

  make it to meet everybody [TS]

  I'll see you in a different light I was [TS]

  like I'll come to a party on algae on [TS]

  fuck yes I well and I went down and I [TS]

  had my you know and I dressed dressed [TS]

  for success and I went down there to a [TS]

  yacht and walked out you know to walk [TS]

  down the pier and saw the yacht and I [TS]

  was like this is the yacht it's you know [TS]

  it's not really a yacht it's more of its [TS]

  a big boat but like I was kind of like [TS]

  an eyeball that though this lady is this [TS]

  is this or is this not a yeah that's a [TS]

  nice boat but it's a nice boat it's a [TS]

  big boat but but I mean I feel like [TS]

  calling it a yacht is a little bit [TS]

  shouldn't get to wear one of this person [TS]

  how it's probably you don't get to tell [TS]

  you don't get to say whether your boat [TS]

  is a yacht or not I feel it's like [TS]

  poetry other people had call it that [TS]

  that's right if somebody else calls a [TS]

  yacht that's fine but if you're like [TS]

  come on and visit my yacht it's like you [TS]

  should have said boat but I get on there [TS]

  and I'm talking to these guys and [TS]

  there's just a lot of there's a lot of [TS]

  gel in their hair even the older ones [TS]

  and I realized that what being a broker [TS]

  is it's a job in sales [TS]

  it involves a lot of cold calling and it [TS]

  involves telling people that they really [TS]

  really need this financial instrument [TS]

  otherwise they're not going to be [TS]

  they're not going to provide for their [TS]

  kids and you need to say that whether [TS]

  you believe it or not and I was like [TS]

  this is not the place for me and I [TS]

  immediately went over to the bar and [TS]

  drink 14 gin and tonics and then fell [TS]

  asleep on the deck boat in my suit and [TS]

  fell asleep inside I was sitting in a [TS]

  chair and then I just sport fell out of [TS]

  the chair didn't fall i feel like i just [TS]

  was more comfortable lying [TS]

  on the deck knowledge on but I was lying [TS]

  there on the deck and such a weakling [TS]

  this I mean where you are you really i [TS]

  was pretty out of it and and I was lying [TS]

  on the deck in such a way that everyone [TS]

  who was walking around touring the boat [TS]

  had to step over me [TS]

  mind the intern and I feel like I pretty [TS]

  much intentionally torpedo my broker [TS]

  training but it was it was obviously not [TS]

  for me but but in that moment I felt a [TS]

  lot of pressure at on my way to the boat [TS]

  and in the first hour I was on the boat [TS]

  a lot of pressure to not make the wrong [TS]

  decision because this is a thing that [TS]

  could you know that could make make your [TS]

  life you could be a very different guy [TS]

  and you can have all you get a lot of [TS]

  money and you could be a member of the [TS]

  right clubs and all these things and I [TS]

  you very seldom although not in this [TS]

  life so many times that feels like you [TS]

  are in a situation where like this it is [TS]

  doing are these the things i want to [TS]

  spend especially back then because I [TS]

  mean we're really I feel like you speak [TS]

  for myself I feel like I was really [TS]

  brought up to like wait for those [TS]

  moments that would constitute the last [TS]

  10 minutes of the TV movie about me like [TS]

  when is that they gonna come along when [TS]

  I arrived yeah right where you do where [TS]

  suddenly you go what [TS]

  and then the credits roll because he [TS]

  you're in the decision-making portion of [TS]

  your life is over and now you are now [TS]

  you just are doing the thing like you [TS]

  met the girl you got married you got the [TS]

  good job at her father's company and [TS]

  then the credits literally roll because [TS]

  nobody cares about the next 50 years of [TS]

  your lobbyist everything's going to be [TS]

  fine its happily ever after [TS]

  that's right everything's going to be [TS]

  fine let's turn our attention to the [TS]

  next young person who is in the [TS]

  decision-making mode but that that that [TS]

  choosing and that those choices i feel [TS]

  like i can continue to have to make all [TS]

  the time and um and I mean I'm in a [TS]

  place right now where I'm being asked by [TS]

  people do you want to do this thing this [TS]

  interesting thing where where money [TS]

  might rain down from the sky [TS]

  all involves is that you change [TS]

  everything that you're doing and really [TS]

  we direct all your energy in this other [TS]

  direction but if you if you're ready to [TS]

  do that i can promise you on the other [TS]

  side here that there are machines their [TS]

  machines in our office that have [TS]

  skittles and he would have you have you [TS]

  would have one of the top four or five [TS]

  biggest desks are you kidding no I don't [TS]

  know anything about this sounds the [TS]

  terrifying [TS]

  I mean you know exciting but like wow [TS]

  that is at your age to have that come [TS]

  along is really wild it is why I and [TS]

  particularly wild given that when i look [TS]

  at my head of your statements every year [TS]

  I'm like well just eat by again just by [TS]

  the hair of my chinny-chin-chin [TS]

  but but when I'm when I'm out writing [TS]

  articles are talking on this podcast or [TS]

  like or or prescribing to the world [TS]

  I feel like what the people I'm talking [TS]

  to I am I am NOT writing to dedicated [TS]

  television watchers telling them that [TS]

  they are bad for watching television [TS]

  I don't have any interest in doing that [TS]

  I'm not interested in them at all really [TS]

  I mean I feel like they are doing their [TS]

  thing and we are on a parallel track and [TS]

  we are happy friends like everything I [TS]

  say and everything i right [TS]

  I'm I'm trying to reach those people [TS]

  that were or are like me and I'm trying [TS]

  to say to them like there is you know [TS]

  there is someone else out here who is [TS]

  doing it would you know there is [TS]

  somebody who is not a fan of stuff so [TS]

  don't feel like not being a fan of stuff [TS]

  makes you an ale and there is somebody [TS]

  who who doesn't like punk rock so don't [TS]

  think i'm not even that doesn't like [TS]

  punk rock music just doesn't like punk [TS]

  rockers and don't feel like you're a [TS]

  dummy for not liking them because you [TS]

  can still you know it's not a question [TS]

  of if you don't like Punk's then you [TS]

  might as well just be a Christian [TS]

  Republican living in Oklahoma their [TS]

  horses tacitly judging [TS]

  the people who identify with that yeah [TS]

  right who sucks on his part of the [TS]

  problem like it is possible to be to be [TS]

  cool as I am cool and rock and roll as [TS]

  I'm rock'n'roll and also call bullshit [TS]

  on things on some of the received wisdom [TS]

  of those cultures right like you you can [TS]

  you can be even an active enthusiastic [TS]

  participant in the thing and still be [TS]

  like but I'd but some of the fundamental [TS]

  premises of this i just don't but they [TS]

  don't reflect my views [TS]

  I don't like I don't like it or or I [TS]

  don't feel it right that's the thing i [TS]

  don't feel it I can I intellectually get [TS]

  it but I don't feel it some so many of [TS]

  the things that are better that we as a [TS]

  as like American culture talked about as [TS]

  being the things that feel the best they [TS]

  don't they don't always feel natural to [TS]

  me [TS]

  mhm so I'm just I'm I'm reaching out [TS]

  over and over and over again to those [TS]

  people because they're the ones that [TS]

  matter to me the people bet that are [TS]

  trying to make their way in this world [TS]

  feeling outside but not so outside that [TS]

  they go join the church of satan just [TS]

  enough outside that every day it feels [TS]

  like to I compromised today and like [TS]

  just go with the flow or do I you know [TS]

  do I dig my heels and a little bit on [TS]

  this and say no you know I this little [TS]

  thing know and and to feel like I i want [TS]

  to support those people because I feel [TS]

  like those may be the ones that have the [TS]

  to have something extra special that [TS]

  we've been what we would benefit from [TS]

  them being a little bolder and and I [TS]

  never felt when I was coming up that I [TS]

  had very many role models because the [TS]

  pictures the role models are always like [TS]

  you know like John Doe right here's a [TS]

  role model for you John Doe he's a smart [TS]

  guy is a handsome guy he's a good guy [TS]

  everybody agrees a good guy and the [TS]

  thurston moore or somebody here [TS]

  and I'd be like oh yeah I do I think [TS]

  Thurston Moore said Gavin john doe or [TS]

  good guys and and those would be [TS]

  they're doing it differently they're [TS]

  making their own way in the world and [TS]

  then I would open up the magazine and [TS]

  read the interview with them and they [TS]

  talk about their record collections and [TS]

  be like but that's not it for me like I [TS]

  don't want to look at the world through [TS]

  my record collection and so you know [TS]

  what I mean like that's the app that's [TS]

  the responsibility i feel on the problem [TS]

  is i want i want to write an article or [TS]

  when I make a statement in the world I [TS]

  have to hear back from the eighty [TS]

  percent of the people who are listening [TS]

  who think I'm yelling at them but I'm [TS]

  not I'm just like I'm whispering to to [TS]

  the people that are then I feel like my [TS]

  kin [TS]

  uh-huh and I feel like you you know you [TS]

  you have an element of that too but [TS]

  you're much beer much better at helping [TS]

  helping people that you don't feel are [TS]

  like you right you're trying to help [TS]

  people who are like you but also trying [TS]

  to make it you know like be helpful to [TS]

  people that you can pursue that you see [TS]

  but that don't resemble you uh huh me [TS]

  maybe so I mean that particular [TS]

  statement remind you something my [TS]

  girlfriend used to say to me pretty [TS]

  often which was you know I really want [TS]

  to help you but I'm not sure you can be [TS]

  helped and dad that always give me pause [TS]

  and sometimes made me angry [TS]

  yeah um can see where that would make [TS]

  you angry well but you know she was [TS]

  right i mean i guess the the what what [TS]

  I've realized is that [TS]

  yeah I'm i made that crack a few weeks [TS]

  ago about how you know if you haven't [TS]

  found anything complicated you're not [TS]

  near the truth you know and that's and [TS]

  the the truth I feel as i try to evolve [TS]

  with that stuff is realizing that you [TS]

  know i mean the one on one hand were all [TS]

  so much like we're so very very very [TS]

  much alike but you know there's also a [TS]

  part of all of us [TS]

  that's broken in a different way and [TS]

  that were ashamed of things in different [TS]

  ways and the so to your point though I [TS]

  feel like it was a real it was a kind of [TS]

  a cart not crisis but a real frustration [TS]

  and it took me a while to get over that [TS]

  I I felt like I wasn't helping people [TS]

  where I was and eventually that led me [TS]

  to not be my website anymore because I [TS]

  realized that I was you know hey you [TS]

  know basically a paddling out to the [TS]

  life raft and giving people saltwater [TS]

  you know drink drink up you know where I [TS]

  felt like the stuff that was making its [TS]

  not so different from from alcoholism I [TS]

  guess where or where you're giving [TS]

  somebody something that feels like a [TS]

  palliative that's actually making it [TS]

  worse and over time there's a you know [TS]

  pattern that you can see so anyway I [TS]

  arrived at today that's not very [TS]

  lucrative is that I there are things i [TS]

  will have to say that can help somebody [TS]

  think about something differently and I [TS]

  think for most smart people that's a lot [TS]

  when we realize how much of our problems [TS]

  come from a destructive or not very [TS]

  useful forms of thinking just learning [TS]

  how to reframe something and looking at [TS]

  it from a different angle can be [TS]

  life-changing [TS]

  but it's not anything that you could [TS]

  have a TV show about without being [TS]

  stupid and being at odds with the basic [TS]

  idea and the basic idea is that you know [TS]

  you Yuri you're looking at this one part [TS]

  of this kind of wrong when he left about [TS]

  this thing you reframe it with Merlin [TS]

  Mann on the Discovery Channel I also you [TS]

  know I love to I love to be disagreeable [TS]

  now goals are great now they're not [TS]

  gonna suck goes well gonna be good [TS]

  you know I I like taking this point of [TS]

  view because like it depends depends it [TS]

  depends it depends right all right I [TS]

  don't um but you know but it and so then [TS]

  so then where does that put me in that [TS]

  instance you know it's not so different [TS]

  from where you are where it's like you [TS]

  know so I I there was a time when I [TS]

  would fit most handily into what you [TS]

  might call self-help or productivity and [TS]

  the thing is that's a party i do not [TS]

  want to go to i do not want to hang out [TS]

  with the self-help people i do not want [TS]

  to hang out with the productivity people [TS]

  because they're there in the existential [TS]

  porn business like they're in the [TS]

  business of vending you something you're [TS]

  always going to need more of Rights [TS]

  takes you further away from the stuff [TS]

  that you actually need to fucking do [TS]

  which is sit down into your thing [TS]

  whatever that is and that that that that [TS]

  is that is that general but you know in [TS]

  that instance i'm with you i mean III [TS]

  feel I have felt very much like you know [TS]

  people want to have that one bit idea of [TS]

  what you do and if it takes too much [TS]

  explaining you must be a charlatan you [TS]

  know yeah so so i don't know i don't [TS]

  know but you know the other foot just [TS]

  your point about the fan thing I mean I [TS]

  can't get away from this thing which is [TS]

  that will part 1 [TS]

  no matter what you see on the internet [TS]

  really anything you say in public but [TS]

  particularly on internet pretty much [TS]

  everybody will find a way to make it [TS]

  about them and to think that you are [TS]

  talking to them and kind of maybe even [TS]

  attacking them so if you say something [TS]

  really nice about the world the kind of [TS]

  thing your sister says on twitter you [TS]

  know quotes from Cleo gibran or whatever [TS]

  like everybody's gonna go [TS]

  that's nice that's nice but you say [TS]

  something like I really wish people [TS]

  would keep moving get out of the way you [TS]

  that they think you're at like attacking [TS]

  them down particularly in that case we [TS]

  are this episode of Roderick on the line [TS]

  is sponsored by Squarespace you know [TS]

  Squarespace as the only one platform [TS]

  that makes it fast and easy to create a [TS]

  website but this week we want to [TS]

  highlight a very cool new project [TS]

  Squarespace has just launched believe it [TS]

  or not [TS]

  Squarespace has partnered with jeff [TS]

  bridges yes that jeff bridges to launch [TS]

  a new album by the man that many of us [TS]

  best-known love as the dude so go and [TS]

  visit dreaming with Jeff dot-com when [TS]

  you get there you'll land on a gorgeous [TS]

  site built with squarespace of course we [TS]

  can find mr Bridges brand new album [TS]

  sleeping tapes now this is an all new [TS]

  collection of unique and relaxing sounds [TS]

  guided meditations and stories designed [TS]

  to low you to sleep all put together [TS]

  with a little help from his friends by [TS]

  Jeff himself and the wrong you can [TS]

  stream the tracks live off of sleeping [TS]

  takes fright there from the site and if [TS]

  you like what you hear you can download [TS]

  them all for any price you choose with [TS]

  all the proceeds going to no kid hungry [TS]

  an organization whose mission is that no [TS]

  child America should ever go to bed [TS]

  hungry again please check this out and [TS]

  help a great cause by visiting dreaming [TS]

  with Jeff dot-com that album again Jeff [TS]

  Bridges sleeping tapes very cool that's [TS]

  4 square space remember you can get a [TS]

  free trial just even today no credit [TS]

  card required start building [TS]

  your very own website right now and when [TS]

  you decide to sign up for Squarespace [TS]

  please make sure to use the offer code [TS]

  supertrain for ten percent off your [TS]

  first purchase and that will show your [TS]

  support for Roderick on the line we [TS]

  thank Squarespace very much for the [TS]

  support of Roderick on the line and [TS]

  forgiving this great album to the world [TS]

  Squarespace start here go anyway but [TS]

  yeah I mean that was the that was the [TS]

  the the the first shock of that of that [TS]

  punk rock article for me was I was [TS]

  writing it for my seattle for the people [TS]

  that wrote the red the seattle weekly [TS]

  people within within a 10-mile radius of [TS]

  where I was standing and I was stunned [TS]

  and how angry it made people in Florida [TS]

  where you like respect and admire came [TS]

  out publicly against you [TS]

  yeah people we both like I like that man [TS]

  that guy's manage on robberies mad but [TS]

  you know the so you and I just did a [TS]

  show a live show a live Roderick on the [TS]

  line show ya in California and it was [TS]

  very fun and we had a very good time but [TS]

  when i took the stage we walked out [TS]

  onstage with you and I were standing [TS]

  backstage from you were like how will we [TS]

  know when to go on let me get the music [TS]

  was playing and then the music went down [TS]

  and the man from the the sketch fest [TS]

  introduced us and we walked out on stage [TS]

  here we are here and enter the last [TS]

  thing you said was like are you gonna go [TS]

  on that side or this side and I was [TS]

  going I memory on that side and then we [TS]

  walk out and there's the there's the [TS]

  room full of people and they're plotting [TS]

  and we are saying hello and as a rock [TS]

  musician i adjusted I got used to a long [TS]

  time ago the idea that i was going to [TS]

  walk out on a stage and about and the [TS]

  most I can hope for is that half the [TS]

  audience's on my side he might help that [TS]

  people stop talking a little bit right [TS]

  yeah and there are there are musicians [TS]

  and and I know a lot of them and [TS]

  jonathan coulton is one for instance [TS]

  where he walks out on stage and has four [TS]

  years walked out onstage and and doesn't [TS]

  even think it's this it's this thing you [TS]

  were talking about a second ago he [TS]

  doesn't even think about the possibility [TS]

  that there's someone in the audience [TS]

  that doesn't like him because it's a [TS]

  quick they're all on a cruise that's [TS]

  named after him right stop there that [TS]

  was like about governance so he doesn't [TS]

  know that thing i'm going to write a [TS]

  check with his name it's that you don't [TS]

  have a you don't know how bad your [TS]

  vision is because because the all you [TS]

  can see is how you see ya [TS]

  um and and the guys in death cab for [TS]

  cutie like this the guys in keene or [TS]

  like this like if you are used to [TS]

  playing sold-out shows everywhere you go [TS]

  the presumption is that every person [TS]

  there had to make it a special effort to [TS]

  get into your show it costs a lot of [TS]

  money they're all massive fans but for [TS]

  me even during the heyday of my band [TS]

  there was a there was a palpable sense [TS]

  that our band was one of those bands [TS]

  that hipsters would go to see and stand [TS]

  in the back and be like okay [TS]

  long winters I've heard of you show me [TS]

  something and you know that was the [TS]

  level of indie rock we were at where we [TS]

  weren't selling a thousand tickets in [TS]

  every town we were selling 500 tickets [TS]

  or 350 tickets and a certain percentage [TS]

  of that audience was there was [TS]

  absolutely capable of coming away from [TS]

  that show going [TS]

  why didn't I don't see what people like [TS]

  them so much I mean you know that that [TS]

  was that's part of that you know how to [TS]

  send some percentage of the audience was [TS]

  there out of curiosity [TS]

  yeah maybe whereas with keen there's a [TS]

  pretty good chance they have hurricane [TS]

  song if you have heard a keen song and [TS]

  they're there because they want they [TS]

  want to hear the song and and the people [TS]

  better like you know I've heard about [TS]

  this band and I go to see five shows a [TS]

  week and I'm gonna go check them out [TS]

  they typically don't go to see keen or [TS]

  death cab for cutie but they do go to [TS]

  see bands like the long winters [TS]

  well then after the long winter stop [TS]

  playing and i started doing shows where [TS]

  i was going out as a solo acoustic [TS]

  artists opening for other people then [TS]

  that dropped that percentage i guess the [TS]

  percentage of people who are like who's [TS]

  this guy went way up and my performance [TS]

  style evolved in the [TS]

  last seven years i remember you flipping [TS]

  the bird quite as much in the long [TS]

  winters in the because of the language I [TS]

  wasn't fucking I wasn't flipping [TS]

  everybody off because I was like hi [TS]

  friends you know at least a percentage [TS]

  of you but I evolve this performance [TS]

  style [TS]

  whoa where I'm walking out onstage and [TS]

  it's like oh here there's an opener at [TS]

  the show and I'm like hi I'm John [TS]

  Roderick i am a massive person and to [TS]

  you right now i am a nobody [TS]

  I'm not I'm like a weird a bearded guy [TS]

  with an acoustic guitar and I haven't [TS]

  played in moment of music yet but i [TS]

  cannot walk out here and just be like [TS]

  how you guys and start playing my songs [TS]

  i'm gonna have to get I'm gonna have to [TS]

  get this room right [TS]

  first it's time for some framing and [TS]

  that involves telling you not only who I [TS]

  am but who you are and how this is gonna [TS]

  go [TS]

  yeah and how this is gonna go how this [TS]

  is gonna go for you if you do like it [TS]

  and how it's going to go for you if you [TS]

  don't like it's like a CIA interrogator [TS]

  what's up man this is only going to get [TS]

  worse harder easy buddy [TS]

  have you seen the box you want to go in [TS]

  the box you don't wanna go into you [TS]

  don't want to go in the box but when I [TS]

  walked out onstage with you in San [TS]

  Francisco it was a it was a very nice [TS]

  theater and a nice full room of people [TS]

  and I and I had I had that feeling and [TS]

  that wasn't prepared for and I hadn't [TS]

  thought of it in advance but I walked [TS]

  out I realized by the applause and by [TS]

  where we were and who we were and where [TS]

  we were standing I was like oh [TS]

  everybody wants to be here right now I [TS]

  don't have to i don't have I I don't [TS]

  have to prepare this room [TS]

  and it was a very comfortable feeling [TS]

  and then I look down at the foot of the [TS]

  stage and there was a stack of [TS]

  three-by-five cards that someone some [TS]

  fan had written some inside jokes on [TS]

  written some written some rock on the [TS]

  line based memes on these three-by-five [TS]

  cards and then had put them on the stage [TS]

  and so I walked out and I and I'm I'm [TS]

  kind of basking in this moment like [TS]

  here's our people and then I look down [TS]

  and I see these three-by-five cards and [TS]

  I realized that someone in the audience [TS]

  has a dunce has gone to some work and [TS]

  then put them on the stage in [TS]

  expectation of something and that [TS]

  expectation presumably was that we would [TS]

  pick up the three-by-five cards and read [TS]

  them on the stage and go through them [TS]

  and have them are i'm not sure what the [TS]

  expectation was I honestly have no idea [TS]

  but I look down at the three-by-five [TS]

  cards and I said to myself in an instant [TS]

  you know someone has placed an [TS]

  expectation on the stage and that is not [TS]

  in that is not in within the within the [TS]

  bounds of how I'm gonna like this is my [TS]

  stage right and Merlin stage and the [TS]

  hand I reject your expectations so i [TS]

  picked up the stack of three-by-five [TS]

  cards and i know you noted someone's put [TS]

  some cards on the stage and then you [TS]

  flung them at the application i hurled [TS]

  into the crowd and which was created by [TS]

  a lot of laughter well and the thing is [TS]

  that everyone in the room and that was [TS]

  the last I thought about it right that [TS]

  everybody in the room understood what [TS]

  that transaction just was right that [TS]

  someone had in their enthusiasm for the [TS]

  show had made a thing they had put it on [TS]

  the stage and had had crossed hubris [TS]

  order and I push them [TS]

  back over the hubris border and [TS]

  everybody agreed that that was the that [TS]

  that is in fact the introduction to the [TS]

  program that we're doing and that is [TS]

  that was in that was in character of the [TS]

  of product on the line and that was just [TS]

  exactly what what that is the message in [TS]

  a way of the program right but at the [TS]

  end of the night so I didn't think about [TS]

  those cards again and at the end of the [TS]

  night I think some people were were [TS]

  picking up those cards as souvenirs yes [TS]

  I somebody photographed him but then i [TS]

  was standing talking to people and [TS]

  shaking hands with people and a young [TS]

  woman comes by and she's picking up the [TS]

  cards and I'm conscious of she's picking [TS]

  up the cards with a particular energy [TS]

  it's not an exaggerated one but there is [TS]

  an energy to the way she's picking up [TS]

  the cards where I realized that she is [TS]

  not an employee of the venue [TS]

  she's not picking up the cards to clean [TS]

  the space for the next show [TS]

  she's picking up the cards because it [TS]

  because she made the cards and I stopped [TS]

  and was like oh did you make these [TS]

  and she said yes and with a look on her [TS]

  face that were revealed to me that maybe [TS]

  everybody in the room thought that was [TS]

  hilarious except for one person on know [TS]

  and i'm not sure what she again i have [TS]

  no idea what was intended but I had you [TS]

  know I'd run with it and then here was [TS]

  this person who had actually either [TS]

  facilitated this because it seems like a [TS]

  lot of them were in different [TS]

  handwriting maybe she'd gone around and [TS]

  asked everybody in the room beforehand [TS]

  to write something on a three-by-five [TS]

  brown or maybe she done it herself in [TS]

  different handwriting [TS]

  I don't know because i also had a lot of [TS]

  people to talk to but I said hey no I [TS]

  would actually like to read those cards [TS]

  if it if that is important [TS]

  I'm sorry that I threw them over the [TS]

  room but that was just a theatrical [TS]

  moment is a bit and she you know didn't [TS]

  say anything she just kind of you know [TS]

  nodded and smiled and gave me the cards [TS]

  and I did read the cards on the cards [TS]

  were you know I kind of exhaustive [TS]

  collection of of memes and themes that [TS]

  you and I have talked about over the [TS]

  years I saw his planning on their Hitler [TS]

  splaining and 380 like three by five [TS]

  card crossed out and you know a lot of [TS]

  the top was I think I'm Merlin specific [TS]

  joke where I did once have a photo where [TS]

  i had written index card on an index [TS]

  card haha oh uh what was what was your [TS]

  great one here you're great there with [TS]

  you did something like I wrote the words [TS]

  jeff goldblum on a page and i found that [TS]

  later and I had absolutely no idea where [TS]

  the couplet my favorite was that picture [TS]

  of you in front of a white board where [TS]

  you had it written some like a ski show [TS]

  ya the brake the brake tag [TS]

  yeah break tag yeah the way 10 plus one [TS]

  point compress that's right in my garage [TS]

  and I was the only attended and that [TS]

  might be that might be a little early [TS]

  for some of our listeners it early in [TS]

  the middle back when i was writing [TS]

  computer mass for the early internet [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  early early culture but I did feel in [TS]

  that moment that even in our even in our [TS]

  inner circle of people that are a [TS]

  hundred percent like on board and and [TS]

  part of our culture and I see this all [TS]

  the time in the replies we get to the [TS]

  show [TS]

  there is a lot of variation in the [TS]

  expectation and in the you know and like [TS]

  what people are taking away from what we [TS]

  do and in that in that moment because [TS]

  Ivy even on your own show that we [TS]

  created you can still feel like an [TS]

  outsider ya head it away like I felt [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  all I I felt terrible to have because [TS]

  because on the on one level somebody [TS]

  worked off the sweetness i'm going to [TS]

  say that it's a sweet gesture [TS]

  yeah and now and on another level it is [TS]

  you know it is a completely in character [TS]

  of the show and of me you don't put [TS]

  something on my stage [TS]

  particularly not something we're the [TS]

  only thing up the only thing it's doing [TS]

  there is saying interact with me like [TS]

  right I want you to I want your show to [TS]

  incorporate something I made how did he [TS]

  end up well she you know she kind of [TS]

  smiled and bowed a little bit and gave [TS]

  me the cards and then Roderick and [TS]

  thence then disappeared and if you know [TS]

  she threw down and smoke bomb and we [TS]

  don't get a Batman exit and I had to go [TS]

  I have to go to immediately to another [TS]

  show so I wasn't able to chase her i had [TS]

  to you know to greet the people who had [TS]

  good state to say hello but you know but [TS]

  it was a it was a thing that that I went [TS]

  through those cars out there i did not [TS]

  think about it again until I saw the [TS]

  maker of the cars and then was like all [TS]

  right then and and and I do respect and [TS]

  honor people making things and some of [TS]

  the fan art that we've generated makes [TS]

  me as happy as strong if you walking a [TS]

  large cat dressed as a pimp the small [TS]

  Cal so amazing Jesus amazing so amazing [TS]

  but but that had that feeling right that [TS]

  that and I think that is a feeling that [TS]

  everybody has right then that no one [TS]

  totally gets them and even your closest [TS]

  people don't they're never going to [TS]

  totally get you and knowing how to know [TS]

  how to know like where your where the [TS]

  borderlands are where you actually dig a [TS]

  trench and make a stand and where you [TS]

  just say like oh this is where there's [TS]

  this isn't a battleground it's just a [TS]

  village it takes a village I'm just a [TS]

  villager i feel like i'm writing lyrics [TS]

  to my new record right now I'm just [TS]

  going to go into the village [TS]

  k takes a village no reply attention [TS]

  generation supertrain we have an [TS]

  exciting new thought technology for you [TS]

  because right now for the first time [TS]

  ever [TS]

  Roderick on the line has shirts shirts [TS]

  that you can buy and then where is your [TS]

  small batch single cask artists anal [TS]

  t-shirts and hoodies featuring our brand [TS]

  new rock on the wine logo lovingly [TS]

  crafted by our pals at cotton bureau to [TS]

  see them for yourself you can find a [TS]

  link shown us for this episode or just [TS]

  dial up bit ly / supertrain shirt and [TS]

  here's the thing this is a very limited [TS]

  time offer the last possible second to [TS]

  buy this shirt passes on februari 6 2015 [TS]

  at 2pm so please act now go to italy / [TS]

  supertrain shirt and pick up this [TS]

  one-of-a-kind item for the very first [TS]

  time available to you John and I thank [TS]

  you in advance for having a torso and [TS]

  excellent taste takes a village makes [TS]

  village shaken bake village [TS]

  oh fun show though I had a blast and I [TS]

  enjoyed it a lot i mean it's you know [TS]

  it's like any of these things network [TS]

  we're really up our own ass now that [TS]

  it's done it's really different [TS]

  I mean it's funny because like there's a [TS]

  switch tradition of writing and [TS]

  recording music that you put out and [TS]

  then people listen to and it rich [TS]

  tradition of playing live shows and they [TS]

  have a distinctly different energy [TS]

  unless you're like I remember Joe [TS]

  Jackson put that record like 1986 we're [TS]

  gonna have to be really quiet while I [TS]

  was recording because it was recorded [TS]

  live but he didn't want any audience [TS]

  participation on it all really weird [TS]

  tonight will did we just hear something [TS]

  about Stephen merit we're after the [TS]

  first song had his rock concert he said [TS]

  I would I don't hear applause hurts my [TS]

  ears [TS]

  I'm really glad I don't room with that [TS]

  guy right here applause hurts my ears [TS]

  man [TS]

  ok that but he smells like cigarettes [TS]

  Milwaukee's go [TS]

  it's true what you say the the energy I [TS]

  mean you and I have a very different [TS]

  when we're on honor did that's not yeah [TS]

  exactly you're getting it you're getting [TS]

  what i'm saying here which is like a [TS]

  record with somebody else long enough to [TS]

  do something like this you know [TS]

  sure obviously it's a matter of taste [TS]

  whether you are into it or not but it is [TS]

  what it is and it's what we understand [TS]

  what this is but like I've never done [TS]

  anything podcast II that was easy to do [TS]

  live and have it have the same flavor [TS]

  and brio as the what we're doing right [TS]

  now not that's not necessarily an [TS]

  interesting thing but you know and i [TS]

  have to tell you that with other things [TS]

  i've done like that the best thing we [TS]

  ever did was to stop having it try to [TS]

  have this is precise energy as the [TS]

  record show right in the same way that a [TS]

  live show with sock [TS]

  I mean barring what Joe Jackson and [TS]

  crafts for kraftwerk like don't try and [TS]

  make it sound like the record that's not [TS]

  what people are therefore if they are [TS]

  therefore that the initials on the [TS]

  record right price [TS]

  you know and we talked about that like [TS]

  you know in counting for like the energy [TS]

  in the room and like your ability to [TS]

  respond to somebody booing about the [TS]

  seahawks or something like that [TS]

  yes it's hard i mean it's not hard it's [TS]

  fucking coal mining is hard but it's a [TS]

  bit is weird and scary [TS]

  well and the thing is like our show I [TS]

  mean people will be able to judge for [TS]

  themselves because it is recorded and [TS]

  will be will have will have been out it [TS]

  will when this comes out [TS]

  um the [TS]

  the energy when I walk out on a stage [TS]

  like that's where i am the most [TS]

  comfortable right I've spent my whole [TS]

  professional life standing in front of [TS]

  you haven't had anything like actual [TS]

  stage fright in years [TS]

  i I'm with you I don't need for an 8th [TS]

  ed addled mind being stuck on stage in a [TS]

  position that other people perceive as [TS]

  pressure [TS]

  oh man i don't think i don't think about [TS]

  anything but this right and I'll tell [TS]

  you another state of mind and like I [TS]

  would be totally fine on stage I mean [TS]

  you know given what i do i mean i'm not [TS]

  you know Liberace but like it would be I [TS]

  would I very comfortable and yeah me too [TS]

  i can't imagine a mood that I would be [TS]

  in that wouldn't be improved by somebody [TS]

  pushing me out on stage and sing [TS]

  go ahead do you you're responsible for [TS]

  30 minutes I'd be like well i was just [TS]

  about any think about cancer from yeah I [TS]

  was just about to hang myself on my belt [TS]

  from a doorknob but haha now in time mr. [TS]

  on track i'm going to do in 30 minutes [TS]

  on that and it's gonna be so fun did you [TS]

  notice how much the backstage area when [TS]

  you're looking through the doors how [TS]

  much it looked like a gallows [TS]

  oh you walk up those steps and there's [TS]

  like this one guys really look at [TS]

  gallows when I was in when i was in [TS]

  Djibouti recently your trip to Africa [TS]

  oh yeah that's right it's about its [TS]

  place in Africa booty is a place in [TS]

  Africa that's fun to say we were uh at a [TS]

  certain point we had with would we had a [TS]

  late night smoking cigars with the [TS]

  Master Chief's and the chief master [TS]

  chief the commander chase are very very [TS]

  the highest level enlisted people right [TS]

  right okay in the nails they're like [TS]

  they're professionals their career [TS]

  professionals who just aren't officers [TS]

  yeah and the chief i'm sorry the command [TS]

  master chief is the highest-ranking [TS]

  chief and the command master chief of [TS]

  this space was a very capable and a very [TS]

  clearly in command person and he invited [TS]

  us to his like private lair [TS]

  where we sat around smoking what could [TS]

  only be described as illegal cigars and [TS]

  lucky having a good time just talking to [TS]

  the chief different that they're [TS]

  different and cigars [TS]

  yeah well and these guys were different [TS]

  and at one point I think hungry i think [TS]

  i mentioned on some other podcast and i [TS]

  recently did that one of the Master [TS]

  Chief's was like when I said I was going [TS]

  around like what do you do you know what [TS]

  he's like well I'm in charge of the [TS]

  Seabees like what do you do well i'm in [TS]

  charge of that I get to a guy and he's [TS]

  like I'm a parachute Packer and I said [TS]

  you are a like master chief and you're [TS]

  telling me your parachute Packer for the [TS]

  Navy who does the what Navy guys ever go [TS]

  under a parachute and he just gave me [TS]

  this link and I was like oh IC IC who [TS]

  you are so as these guys when I love [TS]

  what I missed their see an operative [TS]

  he's the he was the seal he was the he [TS]

  was the seal master chief looks like [TS]

  when I tell people I'm a ceramicist I [TS]

  get it okay [TS]

  yeah he was saying I pack parachutes and [TS]

  if you're in the if you're in the ocean [TS]

  and shoot the shit out of people [TS]

  yeah for the military and you think like [TS]

  who's in the Navy [TS]

  well a lot of people that swab the decks [TS]

  the only guys that come out of airplanes [TS]

  in under parachutes are like you know [TS]

  they don't have a little early train for [TS]

  like everything like that they are they [TS]

  are meant to be like even beyond Marines [TS]

  god bless them like you're meant to be [TS]

  like they could go into any situation [TS]

  and just deal with it right [TS]

  yeah well I'm not going to jack off the [TS]

  seals right now because I feel like the [TS]

  seals are getting enough credit in our [TS]

  culture but yeah sure the seals are [TS]

  seals have a nice challenge cleen they [TS]

  have a good challenge going and they [TS]

  have a lot of they have a lot of skills [TS]

  they have the skills to pay the bills [TS]

  ok but anyway so I'm talking to the [TS]

  command master chief and I said why is [TS]

  this base closed to what I mean why is [TS]

  it on lockdown and he rolled his eyes [TS]

  and said well nine months ago somebody [TS]

  blew themselves up in a club downtown in [TS]

  Djibouti and so now nobody here is [TS]

  allowed liberty to go into the town [TS]

  and I said I really feel like that is [TS]

  antithetical to the to the whole idea of [TS]

  having a military base in a foreign [TS]

  country like the young guys that are in [TS]

  the Navy need to go into the town and [TS]

  the people in the town need to have the [TS]

  young guys in the Navy come in like [TS]

  that's [TS]

  that is the symbiosis of being deployed [TS]

  overseas and to have a base here where [TS]

  the the sailors can't leave the base is [TS]

  just the wrong mentality and he said I [TS]

  agree one hundred percent but i am being [TS]

  you know I'm i M my hands are tied [TS]

  because the order came down from you [TS]

  know us africom or something and I was [TS]

  like well that's a bummer because I [TS]

  really want to go see Djibouti and he [TS]

  cheated on his cigar for 15 minutes when [TS]

  we talked about other things and then he [TS]

  said you know what i'm gonna make it so [TS]

  that you can go into Djibouti and the [TS]

  next day he you know some captain or not [TS]

  captain some lieutenant Navy lieutenant [TS]

  shows up in a sec and we all went out I [TS]

  David recent jonathan coulton I and [TS]

  somebody some other person that I don't [TS]

  know who they were we all went out [TS]

  through the seven layers of hardened [TS]

  security gates and drove spent an [TS]

  afternoon driving around your booty town [TS]

  but the [TS]

  most telling moment was as we were [TS]

  leaving the base its kind of you know [TS]

  gravely scorched-earth sort of around [TS]

  the base stealing the base heat points [TS]

  over to the side and very [TS]

  matter-of-factly says they're the old [TS]

  gallows from one the French ran this [TS]

  place [TS]

  Wow and it was like it was like Calvary [TS]

  mount you know there was a there was [TS]

  literally a hill and it was that for [TS]

  their own guys know literally a hill and [TS]

  then a giant gallows that where they [TS]

  hung whoever it was that they felt [TS]

  needed hanging huh and and it was built [TS]

  in such a way that you could not escape [TS]

  seeing it from sort of miles around and [TS]

  it was a real like I mean it was real [TS]

  colonial it was it was like an emblem of [TS]

  colonial authority [TS]

  I'm not an apologetic unapologetic [TS]

  colonialism absolutely just like here is [TS]

  the here not is not a hearts and minds [TS]

  type situation we're running here [TS]

  yeah this is the end of the road right [TS]

  this is our this is the DNB in fool of [TS]

  Djibouti and and boy I I mean walking [TS]

  around are going around your booty town [TS]

  was interesting and I was you know it [TS]

  was a fun experience but I've been [TS]

  chewing on that gallows ever since and [TS]

  just like that's some heavy shit that we [TS]

  don't [TS]

  it's been a long time since that there's [TS]

  been a visible gallows in the United [TS]

  States and I don't think I think you'd [TS]

  be hard-pressed to find one still in a [TS]

  public square [TS]

  maybe the theater other thing is they're [TS]

  not you may be in a theater in San [TS]

  Francisco and italian social club now [TS]

  that's a scary it was scary even if it's [TS]

  you know not being used its wonder why [TS]

  they haven't taken it down [TS]

  that's the thing that I've been chewing [TS]

  on like the terms of messaging they're [TS]

  so easy to blow it up [TS]

  yeah before you know turn into a gift [TS]

  shop or something but like to have that [TS]

  thing there seems I don't know that [TS]

  seems a little creepy [TS]

  it does [TS]

  it does it does it does to me still [TS]

  but you know there are a lot of there [TS]

  are a lot of countries where you know [TS]

  capital punishment is still practiced in [TS]

  the in public they did didn't they do [TS]

  the French did public executions until [TS]

  into the 20th century right yeah well [TS]

  they had up to anything photos of a very [TS]

  modern-looking guillotine [TS]

  well you know it's a beauty is very [TS]

  efficient and very sanitary so in that [TS]

  sense I'm a German prison if you think [TS]

  about sanitary sure that's what you want [TS]

  a lousy because everything goes in the [TS]

  basket right although a basket is a [TS]

  terrible thing to collect blood him [TS]

  Oh God [TS]

  isn't that weird with all of that little [TS]

  another happy note isn't a strange with [TS]

  all the technology we have we're moving [TS]

  backwards in terms of cleanly killing [TS]

  people is doesn't seem it desperately [TS]

  for first of all I don't you I'm not a [TS]

  giant fan of the death penalty but man [TS]

  if you're gonna do it [TS]

  Jesus Christ these guys could fuck up a [TS]

  steel trap [TS]

  I mean what did you hear about the the [TS]

  one dude in the like how long it took [TS]

  him in the condition it's like this is [TS]

  something there to keep trying to make [TS]

  it humane and and and then they you [TS]

  realize that it isn't humane particular [TS]

  people no matter how you think of to do [TS]

  it well and again but last you have [TS]

  stated the the most monstrous seeming [TS]

  methods from you know centuries ago are [TS]

  a lot cleaner than having a guy dressed [TS]

  up like a doctor going in poky i guess a [TS]

  doctor probably going to poke you with [TS]

  poison like that's actually not as [TS]

  reliable know it's terrible and because [TS]

  everybody is different and you know you [TS]

  can't really gasps somebody either [TS]

  reliably well go meet anybody who's an [TS]

  anesthesiologist I mean that's the [TS]

  toughest gig in that room [TS]

  yes it's at I'm fascinated by [TS]

  anesthesiology it's it is so difficult [TS]

  to get right and you hear you still here [TS]

  with season people used to hear these [TS]

  stories of people who were knocked out [TS]

  enough to not be able to say anything [TS]

  right but still feel ya or the people [TS]

  that just died on the operating table [TS]

  because they're having a mole removed [TS]

  and this is why you're the emissary [TS]

  going to jail and fix those moles I feel [TS]

  like I feel like a I feel like we just [TS]

  need to get a sort of Soylent Green [TS]

  maker if we're going to have capital [TS]

  punishment it needs to be handled in a [TS]

  central location workforce presumably [TS]

  somewhere in i would say Kansas let's [TS]

  say Kansas because Kansas is the center [TS]

  of the country and they also they've [TS]

  they have decided how they're going to [TS]

  be there so let's just call it Kansas [TS]

  maybe I mean Texas obviously I'm like [TS]

  Kansas cancel putting in Kansas it will [TS]

  be a soylent green factory will take all [TS]

  the people that we have decided that [TS]

  we're going to be legally kill and we'll [TS]

  just put them in a hopper and then down [TS]

  through the grinder there's no amount of [TS]

  minutes going to be quick but there's no [TS]

  amount of like oh we didn't get it right [TS]

  the first time we have to go back [TS]

  Yeah right there just going to be loved [TS]

  and then we can use that as fish food or [TS]

  fertilizer or not or squeeze for kids [TS]

  whatever you want to use it for but it [TS]

  took us that mean it uses just using a [TS]

  matrix philosophy right it took us a [TS]

  long time to grow that yes that that bad [TS]

  person [TS]

  yeah we've invested we've invested a lot [TS]

  of time and energy in public schools and [TS]

  so forth they should at least be a snack [TS]

  bar for kids which should at least get [TS]

  something out of it right [TS]

  oh yeah some kind of like a slurry that [TS]

  can be used for a variety of purposes [TS]

  pretty far John if you could use it to [TS]

  pay your bar or whatever I don't know [TS]

  that the Oh [TS]

  good show it was fun [TS]

  yeah nice nice people it was great we [TS]

  never really used the bell [TS]

  no just a little bit little bit what [TS]

  seems a little bit you know we're trying [TS]

  to work it in [TS]

  but how was your overall experience of [TS]

  sketchfest you had the yeah the nerd [TS]

  show with the nerdy guys you had our [TS]

  rock on the line and then you did [TS]

  something that you did you get to meet [TS]

  John Benjamin is that right John [TS]

  Benjamin and I he hosted the show that I [TS]

  was the musical guest [TS]

  I'm here and I had a beary beary nice [TS]

  time together it it was revealed by h [TS]

  john benjamin that he is a longtime long [TS]

  winters fan [TS]

  wow I also heard he listens to a friend [TS]

  of mines podcast that's pretty cool [TS]

  yeah so any consumer that guy in your [TS]

  consumer and also just from the moment [TS]

  you meet him just in his face and in his [TS]

  eyes you realize that he is one of the [TS]

  good ones and it's just a good dude and [TS]

  his his comedy his sense of humor really [TS]

  comports with my own like he walks out [TS]

  on stage and he's just like I mean Here [TS]

  I am Here the things i'm going to say [TS]

  any cracks about Bob's Burgers to him [TS]

  no I got in here that I learned my I [TS]

  learned my lesson your throwaway line [TS]

  for people-watching junk TV sitting [TS]

  around watching Bob's Burgers haha up [TS]

  yeah I did I took a shot at bob's [TS]

  burgers but then the following day I was [TS]

  on a show with two of the guys from [TS]

  bob's burgers or three of them i don't [TS]

  know how many of them [TS]

  Eugene was there it was right Eugene [TS]

  Mirman yeah but all of the shows that [TS]

  sketch fest this year were great i Henry [TS]

  I had a wonderful time I met a lot of [TS]

  amazing people and uh and you know the [TS]

  my problem in the past with sketchfest [TS]

  was always that I was left standing on [TS]

  this corner at some point by a driver [TS]

  who had never been to San Francisco [TS]

  before [TS]

  and this time it did it never happened [TS]

  that was completely well organized it [TS]

  was perfect the entire time there were a [TS]

  couple of couple problems they didn't [TS]

  put me in the hotel I wanted which made [TS]

  me mad and I and I voiced my hangar to [TS]

  everybody and they all touchid and told [TS]

  me that they were really sorry [TS]

  mm and I was not modified em but i did [TS]

  just go with the flow because i'm [TS]

  learning to go with the flow [TS]

  alright not really no and then at the [TS]

  very end I was standing in front of my [TS]

  hotel waiting for my ride to the airport [TS]

  and the guys texting me on my way i'll [TS]

  be there in five and I was like okay [TS]

  we're getting down to the wire [TS]

  I gotta get to the airport and you know [TS]

  it it's gonna take a little while to get [TS]

  there as you know and then he text me [TS]

  he's like alright I'm pulling up out [TS]

  front and I'm standing there with my [TS]

  guitar case in front of the hotel [TS]

  looking up and down the completely [TS]

  abandoned [TS]

  did you get the hotel you want it he [TS]

  went to the hotel that I wanted to be [TS]

  out until I should have been at and he's [TS]

  like I'm in front of the hotel I don't [TS]

  know where you're at man right here the [TS]

  Indians and I was just like oh you [TS]

  matter and all of them then I was just [TS]

  like all of your bastards and so I [TS]

  grabbed the first cab i saw which in the [TS]

  in the culture of San Francisco was the [TS]

  wrong move because it infuriated all the [TS]

  other cabs that were parked on the side [TS]

  of what I had what I had seen only a [TS]

  moment before to be a empty street [TS]

  it wasn't an empty street there were [TS]

  like five cattle idol you had a line [TS]

  jumper huh [TS]

  and I and some guy with zips up and I [TS]

  was like you know taxi and he had jumped [TS]

  be the Cataline yeah and then all these [TS]

  camps start honking their horns and once [TS]

  screeched up and tried to block us and [TS]

  they were yelling at each other and I [TS]

  was like listen you want mad you want to [TS]

  see mad i'm mad you guys might be humans [TS]

  might be cabbie mad but I'm at a higher [TS]

  level of man then you're even cabbie man [TS]

  is getting your clock cleaned right now [TS]

  it's a cab all because of uber oh yeah [TS]

  it's it's bad the uber drivers makeup i [TS]

  think on average ten dollar [TS]

  now or more and and just the number of [TS]

  people who move from being cab drivers [TS]

  to uber is just it's dramatic i mean [TS]

  iĆ­ve got that is called curb I've got [TS]

  that app for getting a cab [TS]

  you know the damn supposed to be their [TS]

  answer doober I've tried it three times [TS]

  and each time i've waited 10 minutes and [TS]

  they've never gotten a cab residue Burr [TS]

  and hate them that they're here in three [TS]

  minutes [TS]

  yeah there's seconds right yes and and [TS]

  most of the time i was in san francisco [TS]

  and needed a ride people were calling [TS]

  Hooper's and they were there in three [TS]

  minutes and this cab that I did take to [TS]

  the airport at some point maybe as a [TS]

  weight saving measure maybe for some [TS]

  other reason that I can't explain it [TS]

  seems that they took out the entire rear [TS]

  suspension and replace the different for [TS]

  the railroad time [TS]

  uh-huh so the whole way to the airport I [TS]

  was like this car is not safe to drive [TS]

  and I was like what [TS]

  it's fine i I've noticed that there [TS]

  there's basically there's two kinds of [TS]

  people driving things in San Francisco [TS]

  generally there's people who drive for [TS]

  uber and lyft and there's cab drivers [TS]

  who fucking hate uber and lyft and talk [TS]

  about it the entire time [TS]

  yeah they're advocating for it now I got [TS]

  a ride home with a couple weeks ago and [TS]

  and the entire ride home [TS]

  this guy went off he's an activist and [TS]

  antitumor activists and just went off [TS]

  and you know and I'm doing the thing [TS]

  where i'm kinda like making a motion [TS]

  with the earphones and like just let me [TS]

  know if anything you know I can come not [TS]

  talk to the cab driver guy and but like [TS]

  we was an accident the road is alcohol [TS]

  but that was the whole time he's got his [TS]

  arm on the seat and he keeps turning [TS]

  back to look at me to make sure i'm [TS]

  getting all of this is that all accident [TS]

  but that's an uber really take we like [TS]

  to take photos of mousta like wow man [TS]

  really driven so mad so mad [TS]

  ya know I I had a great time in San [TS]

  Francisco again I did not make the [TS]

  mistake of buying anything while i was [TS]

  there because you didn't go back and [TS]

  demand satisfaction from the suit people [TS]

  know I actually thought about it as i [TS]

  was walking in that neighborhood and I [TS]

  thought about how true it is I'm because [TS]

  i'm not alone in this [TS]

  how true it is that not only did that [TS]

  guy make you know it wasn't that big of [TS]

  a ripoff but he you know he made a copy [TS]

  on the fact that you're from out of town [TS]

  yeah he made you know you like it looks [TS]

  like you send that make more to [TS]

  mcdonalds if we had to choose where the [TS]

  good food of the crappy food went the [TS]

  good food always went to the counter the [TS]

  crappy food always want to the [TS]

  drive-thru because they're gonna come [TS]

  first interesting just seeing what your [TS]

  students to I did not know that the [TS]

  mcdonald's employees had a good food [TS]

  crappy food dialectic happening but I [TS]

  haven't eaten a McDonald's in a decade [TS]

  but this that this was a situation where [TS]

  this guy made a couple hundred bucks off [TS]

  of me and I and my instinct would have [TS]

  been having if I'd had a successful [TS]

  experience at that place that that the [TS]

  way that I the way that I practice [TS]

  loyalty is that I would have bought [TS]

  something in his store every time I went [TS]

  to San Francisco for the next 25 years [TS]

  and the couple of my friends did I mean [TS]

  RT there's no way you phrased it that it [TS]

  sounded like that's kind of what you're [TS]

  looking for is exactly like what people [TS]

  used to have which was a Studebaker a [TS]

  tailor who cannot get give you bespoke [TS]

  closing you go oh hello Jim senior hello [TS]

  Jim jr. suiting up your back in town we [TS]

  missed you you know my all the things [TS]

  that my dad had from that store that [TS]

  were that were made for him by this [TS]

  guy's dad you know III it had created a [TS]

  fantasy in my head that I was going to [TS]

  have a San Francisco haberdasher and for [TS]

  a couple hundred bucks this guy a this [TS]

  guy lost but we'll what we'll end up [TS]

  being tens of thousands of dollars and [TS]

  patronage and that feels like punishment [TS]

  enough [TS]

  also the other thing is i have a podcast [TS]

  where I refer to him periodically and my [TS]

  presumption is that if you live in San [TS]

  Francisco that you you will not [TS]

  patronize cable car clothiers out of [TS]

  loyalty program the line not bitter [TS]

  not at all no this is how people [TS]

  actually constantly telling me how [TS]

  capitalism works [TS]

  I it was always act in your parish it it [TS]

  was so funny i was based on the data [TS]

  Benjamin a program that I've only [TS]

  recently become aware that completed or [TS]

  is that [TS]

  so with what was the status with that [TS]

  which one is it still recording or you [TS]

  could get haha ah it's were skyping now [TS]

  he died I lay in bed with my ipad as i'm [TS]

  going to sleep and dams on the other [TS]

  side and we're just looking at each [TS]

  other and using a party thinking of the [TS]

  cursor but uh but as a result of that [TS]

  program where I said you know every tie [TS]

  I like I laughs a bitter laugh every [TS]

  time the new york times of like paywalls [TS]

  me because as a musician I always find [TS]

  it uh I always find it really charming [TS]

  when people tell me that they're content [TS]

  is worth money because I've spent the [TS]

  last 10 years being told that my content [TS]

  isn't worth money or it's worth a [TS]

  fraction of a fraction of a cent and I i [TS]

  said something like that on dance [TS]

  program and I got a tweet from the [TS]

  managing editor of the New York Times [TS]

  what who lives in person listens to back [TS]

  to work [TS]

  let's go back to work and then he says [TS]

  in his tweet i am a big long winters fan [TS]

  and have been since before the podcast [TS]

  era and i bought all your records sister [TS]

  learn [TS]

  we're in an economy with one another and [TS]

  this is what it this is what it takes at [TS]

  you know you pay us we pay you and I [TS]

  said well i replied back and said yes [TS]

  but you paid you bought my records big [TS]

  you but my records because you chose to [TS]

  write you have the option of buying them [TS]

  and you chose to do that because for [TS]

  whatever reason but there is also a and [TS]

  the and the predominant way of acquiring [TS]

  my records now is to choose to just do [TS]

  the easiest thing which is not actually [TS]

  not to buy them the easiest end of the [TS]

  way that the culture is to the with it [TS]

  this economy you're describing works now [TS]

  is that my content in particular above [TS]

  all other contents is is supposedly free [TS]

  and you know the equivalent would be [TS]

  that some that Spotify come along and [TS]

  say [TS]

  we're going to publish all the newspaper [TS]

  content in the world and then we're [TS]

  gonna we're gonna pay the various [TS]

  newspaper writers we're painting various [TS]

  writers based on how many people read [TS]

  their articles based on math that we [TS]

  devised for ourselves you know [TS]

  so every time somebody read more no I no [TS]

  negotiations no negotiation possible [TS]

  anytime somebody a writer reads that new [TS]

  york times article for free on spotify [TS]

  we're going to give you points 0 0 0 0 1 [TS]

  cent and she to this guy's credit this [TS]

  new york times guy wrote me back and [TS]

  said looking in my itunes at what I have [TS]

  actually bought I'm embarrassed and [TS]

  ashamed versus what he downloaded for [TS]

  free [TS]

  the hour what he what he thought he [TS]

  owned but in fact was listening to on [TS]

  Spotify or whatever [TS]

  however it was that he kind of reflected [TS]

  on on the fact when I see I was like [TS]

  yeah very much to his credit [TS]

  yeah very much credit and then even more [TS]

  to his credit than he said here's a [TS]

  here's a hack all the New York Times [TS]

  content that is that we promote via [TS]

  social media is paywall free you can [TS]

  also identify a google news illegally [TS]

  much in Google News Thank You Merlin [TS]

  technology look at all these now I'm now [TS]

  I feel like I'm uh I'm what is what was [TS]

  that privilege [TS]

  no I already felt that know what was [TS]

  that was that dumb my program that the [TS]

  guy from facebook that like to have [TS]

  disco parties with underage girls [TS]

  yeah invented to listen to music for [TS]

  like a like the the napster not friends [TS]

  for napster that's right yeah now i feel [TS]

  like i have been a pastor for the media [TS]

  for the news talk about privilege i got [TS]

  a nice email this morning for somebody [TS]

  actually I shouldn't say a popular radio [TS]

  station that I listen to [TS]

  uh-huh hey listen to on the internet or [TS]

  on the airwaves just on the airwaves and [TS]

  he sent me the he sent me the pledge the [TS]

  pledge friendly no pledge link you sent [TS]

  me the feed we don't want to pledge [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  Oh what yes that is what I feel like [TS]

  I've arrived yet what you want [TS]

  pledge they give you the keys i haven't [TS]

  pledged yet but he fronted me by and [TS]

  strength as they say talk about [TS]

  privilege [TS]

  yeah what could be wider and more [TS]

  privileged than getting a link to listen [TS]

  to NPR without the plant and actually [TS]

  the latest person on the planet haha and [TS]

  this is all things considered [TS]