Roderick on the Line

Ep. 145: "Scrum of Celery"


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  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

  good how are you going I'm going very [TS]

  well I do you remember the first time I [TS]

  ever wondered what was the first time I [TS]

  answered a skype call from you I pushed [TS]

  video call [TS]

  oh and the and the picture of me showed [TS]

  up are on your screen and you started [TS]

  screaming now [TS]

  no turn that off [TS]

  yeah i think i think i do I have like a [TS]

  little PTSD about it you know and I was [TS]

  like whoa I'm sorry scrambling around to [TS]

  try and turn off the video i am I i am [TS]

  persuaded of a single fact which is that [TS]

  lots of different people have lots of [TS]

  different ideas about what skype is for [TS]

  and how you use it and when two people [TS]

  who use it differently encounter each [TS]

  other it's it can be a little bit rocky [TS]

  i have noticed that people there are [TS]

  some people not many who want to [TS]

  socially networked with me through skype [TS]

  yeah we talked about that inbred [TS]

  churches birthday popping up but you [TS]

  know that the big one for me and [TS]

  sometimes they would have called on [TS]

  skype and I'm like not really but ok and [TS]

  ok let's go to the College great booby [TS]

  both news is change our skype Andals and [TS]

  then good boob you get the boob and it [TS]

  comes up and it's some guy with like a [TS]

  meticulous haircut who shaved like [TS]

  wearing a polo shirt in office only what [TS]

  are you doing don't show me that are put [TS]

  away a people leave their video on they [TS]

  liked the video talk again in the future [TS]

  yes they do they like it well because [TS]

  John you there people who won't be on [TS]

  video with you [TS]

  mm no no no my much more often but the [TS]

  the the the thing that I get is why [TS]

  don't you just go to your home studio [TS]

  and record like I don't it doesn't even [TS]

  matter just record like five minutes sir [TS]

  just record like you know couple of [TS]

  30-second spots or whatever and I'm like [TS]

  for like morning morning zoo or for what [TS]

  I yeah and I'm just like oh go to my [TS]

  home studio record you some 30-second [TS]

  spots is that that's all I told you [TS]

  everything is bi and the way the way [TS]

  people like toss that off [TS]

  it's obviously something that people do [TS]

  all just like you're the dummy yeah I'm [TS]

  the dummy right I'm sure I'm sure that [TS]

  Ted Leo tosses off some 30-second spots [TS]

  50 a day he tosses off some spots Betty [TS]

  toss the spots off all the time and I am [TS]

  and I know for a fact people around here [TS]

  top spots off and I'm sitting there like [TS]

  you know what it would take for me to [TS]

  toss you a spot it would i would have to [TS]

  it would be it would be 11 weeks [TS]

  I mean I'm so simpatico on this i'm a [TS]

  sec okay first of all evolution they [TS]

  used to be I had a camera on my monitor [TS]

  pointed at my face with the thing open [TS]

  so that it could accidentally like fire [TS]

  off video and then I went to keeping the [TS]

  little uh little swing closed and put [TS]

  some tape over it [TS]

  well and then I went to turn it sideways [TS]

  so it points at the coffee pot and now [TS]

  you look at right up here you see see I [TS]

  disconnected the camera i do not want to [TS]

  be seen right yeah yeah well you know [TS]

  here's the other thing that you ever [TS]

  gets it used to be for me back when I [TS]

  used to type more the people like a [TS]

  let's do an interview was do an email [TS]

  interview and in some ways i prefer [TS]

  greatly preferred the email interview [TS]

  because I got to punctuate everything [TS]

  correctly they are wonderful email [TS]

  interviews are the only kind of [TS]

  interviews and i guess but i got to [TS]

  where it is something sometimes so [TS]

  here's this thing here is part of the [TS]

  disproportionate nature of electronic [TS]

  media particularly email somebody could [TS]

  send you a two-line email the requires [TS]

  six months of work huh [TS]

  and it doesn't there's nothing there's [TS]

  nothing to keep you from basically [TS]

  setting everything aside to take care of [TS]

  whatever that person asked for so it [TS]

  makes it very easy on the interviewer [TS]

  right because they just go hey we'll [TS]

  send you seven questions and thank you [TS]

  and me will spend three days answering [TS]

  absolutely yeah but now I'm more like [TS]

  you know what let's just get your [TS]

  questions plug-in will get on skype and [TS]

  then you can go make a thing out of it [TS]

  it's just it can be very time consuming [TS]

  at but as you know back in the certainly [TS]

  back in the days when i was doing a lot [TS]

  of interviews in the Alternative Press [TS]

  some guy gets you on the phone and [TS]

  immediately starts asking those like so [TS]

  why should somebody listened to your [TS]

  band or you know or worse like so what [TS]

  kind of music do you play [TS]

  not like are you seriously you're [TS]

  calling me on the phone and you're [TS]

  asking me these dumbass questions and [TS]

  then so you need to do your best to [TS]

  answer them in a good and a good cherry [TS]

  voice you you walk the person through [TS]

  what their questions should have been [TS]

  without being too pedantic you know you [TS]

  get you get you can tell they didn't do [TS]

  either didn't do any homework or there's [TS]

  such a hack that they're going to the [TS]

  first 30 this article is going to be [TS]

  like the first third of every article [TS]

  ever written about yeah well it's gonna [TS]

  be the first of the article is going to [TS]

  be about them right but then the article [TS]

  comes out and they don't know the [TS]

  difference between your and you were who [TS]

  and they are making that mistake in [TS]

  transcribing my comments so the reader [TS]

  cannot help but feel that I have spoken [TS]

  the wrong you're right i mean that like [TS]

  the day that the reader can't help but [TS]

  think that I am an idiot and you know if [TS]

  the person like doesn't know how comas [TS]

  work let alone a semicolon [TS]

  yeah they can change the complete [TS]

  meaning of what Eve Eve the what you've [TS]

  said and and after after a while I was [TS]

  just like you know what if it can't be [TS]

  an email interview I you know even an [TS]

  in-person interview there was a there [TS]

  was a terrible event where I i I'd come [TS]

  off of a tour that was that was a very [TS]

  fun tour where we were all kind of [TS]

  giving each other the sauce [TS]

  oh and this is when you said some [TS]

  certain things about a certain band [TS]

  yeah I don't want this well certain [TS]

  things about like everybody on the tour [TS]

  in the spirit of the kind of you know [TS]

  monkey business that we were throwing at [TS]

  each other on the tour right i mean when [TS]

  we were on the two we're just remember [TS]

  this is that and the interviewer was [TS]

  riding a big article about my upcoming [TS]

  record for a major magazine and he was a [TS]

  prominent [TS]

  journalists and we met at a french cafe [TS]

  and he was very charming and he [TS]

  expressed that he was a great admirer of [TS]

  my band and he wrote a five page feature [TS]

  with six color photographs in a glossy [TS]

  magazine but he had an axe to grind or [TS]

  was in that likes journalistic scoop [TS]

  mode or something and there was a whole [TS]

  paragraph where you know the spirit of [TS]

  the way I was saying what i was saying [TS]

  was like I love these guys these jerks [TS]

  these these dumb you implied that they [TS]

  drank a lot i think yeah these dealings [TS]

  are my god we Gino job party party party [TS]

  in New Year's another thing they're all [TS]

  they're all dead dummy heads and he just [TS]

  put it in his article and sort of book [TS]

  ended in a way that when the article [TS]

  came out you know I got four really [TS]

  angry phone calls from people God and [TS]

  you know I'm not just angry but like [TS]

  upset like why would you betray us like [TS]

  this and it turned out like you're like [TS]

  you're complicit right like i had been [TS]

  lady she you want to you want to know [TS]

  about these guys I'll tell you about [TS]

  these guys and what it turned out was [TS]

  that this particular writer like hated [TS]

  one of the bands one of the guys for a [TS]

  long time had written a bunch of smear [TS]

  pieces about him or you know and [TS]

  everybody everybody knew who this guy [TS]

  was and didn't like him and it's just [TS]

  like why would you why would you tell [TS]

  that guy all that stuff I was like oh [TS]

  shit yeah and so from that point on I [TS]

  was like send me your questions i will [TS]

  go over them and answer them and when [TS]

  you get it back it will read like a it [TS]

  will read like you are a good [TS]

  interviewer don't worry it's not you [TS]

  know ethics in indie rock journalism are [TS]

  also not really a real thing right [TS]

  you're not actually trying to get there [TS]

  is no it's not like you are a it's not [TS]

  like you are interviewing a presidential [TS]

  candidate you're just talking about [TS]

  bands and it's not important that you [TS]

  that you transcribe the quote exactly [TS]

  right you know right just get it's just [TS]

  a good article fuck you [TS]

  yeah because he was the other part of [TS]

  that is that you're right you're not [TS]

  you're not interviewing a Mike Huckabee [TS]

  or something like that [TS]

  yeah they are you are a musician who is [TS]

  let's be honest you're talking to them [TS]

  because you're promoting your album or [TS]

  your platform or whatever and there was [TS]

  somebody who wants to get hits on the [TS]

  internet right so I mean you both have a [TS]

  reason for doing this [TS]

  that isn't just the public interest well [TS]

  I that this is one of the weird things [TS]

  that I've always kind of i I've started [TS]

  on Twitter following a lot of real [TS]

  journalists people who are embedded in [TS]

  the Ukraine people who are in Africa in [TS]

  Ukraine I'm sorry [TS]

  ukraine people who are better than [TS]

  Ukraine you're gonna get email no emails [TS]

  please [TS]

  it's a it's a it's a bad habit i know it [TS]

  is an external calling it the Ukraine is [TS]

  akin to up to the worst crimes against [TS]

  humanity that person is will it save you [TS]

  thank you i do not mean to create those [TS]

  crimes against humanity lives here [TS]

  recovering on real issues in the real [TS]

  world [TS]

  that's right real people out there and [TS]

  you know their job is very difficult and [TS]

  they are trying they're trying hard to [TS]

  not misrepresent what's happening and a [TS]

  lot of times the things they're seeing [TS]

  with their own eyes are are fairly [TS]

  incredible and if you're if you're a [TS]

  journalist who's out in the middle of a [TS]

  battlefield and you're the only person [TS]

  there and you are the witness of history [TS]

  I I feel the tremendous pressure they [TS]

  must they must feel to get it accurately [TS]

  recorded accurately if you are one of 60 [TS]

  journalists in a news conference like [TS]

  it's pretty at with that where there are [TS]

  seven television cameras like it's [TS]

  pretty well covered we can go back and [TS]

  find out what happened right [TS]

  this whole thing with Bill O'Reilly [TS]

  where he is talking about [TS]

  the falklands war as though he were in [TS]

  the trenches and then it's it takes us a [TS]

  it takes us 40 years for somebody to say [TS]

  hey wait a minute there weren't any [TS]

  trenches in the Falklands War and also [TS]

  no one could get there [TS]

  no one was there and he's you know for [TS]

  years been shouting people down about [TS]

  how he was like i do a bayonet charge [TS]

  you know that's an example of like a [TS]

  journalist miss representing something [TS]

  for his own uniforms own glory but like [TS]

  so much of so much of that that [TS]

  journalism 5i me when I think about [TS]

  music journalism and I've always felt [TS]

  this way [TS]

  what the hell is music journalism I I [TS]

  understand the impulse to do it right I [TS]

  understand the impulse to write it and i [TS]

  really understand the impulse to read it [TS]

  because i used to read it [TS]

  just like with a mad hunger i would read [TS]

  people writing about music but I but it [TS]

  isn't really journalism is it you know [TS]

  it's not good night in most cases i have [TS]

  to say [TS]

  not really yeah it's it it's reporting [TS]

  of a kind but it's the features mostly [TS]

  yeah and and it's and and and people who [TS]

  mistake the job of writing about music [TS]

  that that it needs to be hard-hitting or [TS]

  you need to expose something some I mean [TS]

  I suppose you can use music and [TS]

  contemporary music all the time as a [TS]

  lens through which you are trying to [TS]

  expose a bigger vein of the culture but [TS]

  that's not usually how it plays out [TS]

  right most of the time it's like it's [TS]

  about the band or about the family of [TS]

  bands and and and largely about the [TS]

  writers feelings about bands and so like [TS]

  what it what what role does veracity [TS]

  have you know right you know like yeah [TS]

  there's yeah I think about I mean we [TS]

  one thing i don't know if this is that [TS]

  different but this feels different [TS]

  I I think about like when i was still [TS]

  watching TV news [TS]

  maybe let's say in the eighties or even [TS]

  in the early nineties i would watch like [TS]

  the Sunday morning shows and stuff like [TS]

  that [TS]

  think about a character like sam [TS]

  donaldson where he was he was like the [TS]

  Howard Cosell of ABC news because he was [TS]

  obviously a personality who wanted to [TS]

  become at me to become part of the story [TS]

  because it was sam donaldson who was [TS]

  saying it [TS]

  yeah bombs are dropping behind him and [TS]

  his eyebrows are waggling and he is your [TS]

  guy your man and he had he had what [TS]

  appeared to be a personality and a point [TS]

  of view in an industry where usually you [TS]

  would try to recede into the background [TS]

  and so I mean it's one thing to be and [TS]

  mostly uncredited pool reporter for AP [TS]

  Reuters where you are just you're going [TS]

  to be evaluated mostly like how quickly [TS]

  you got an accurate retelling of the [TS]

  facts right into print and then that [TS]

  gets distributed across the world but it [TS]

  seems like more and more today and I I [TS]

  this is a big jump to go from you know [TS]

  talking about interviewing ronald reagan [TS]

  to talking about the wrens or whatever [TS]

  but now today in what you might call [TS]

  music journalism on the one hand you've [TS]

  got the sort of like what AV Club [TS]

  pitchfork I don't even know anymore I [TS]

  don't follow stuff anymore but you've [TS]

  got you seem like you're mostly [TS]

  addressing fans of the genre and banned [TS]

  me with your coverage and in some cases [TS]

  you are trying to say introduce like an [TS]

  up-and-comer right but I mean what is [TS]

  there really to say about like what the [TS]

  rolling stones are up to that isn't a [TS]

  story about something bigger than music [TS]

  where you'd have to turn into a [TS]

  personality story or just as often a [TS]

  money story or something or in all cases [TS]

  you know the difference between the same [TS]

  Donaldson's of the event and today is [TS]

  that you know you don't just want to [TS]

  tell the facts you want to find [TS]

  something that nobody else noticed even [TS]

  if it's not really fair right so that's [TS]

  get into the turns out stuff where you [TS]

  want to be the one person who went to [TS]

  that press conference came up with [TS]

  something and maybe it's like you know a [TS]

  funny [TS]

  Titanic somebody's wearing or something [TS]

  but you've got to find something nobody [TS]

  else is doing otherwise you know you [TS]

  don't really make a name for yourself [TS]

  today [TS]

  yeah right and and those pieces [TS]

  uh at the the reviews of vampire weekend [TS]

  that are really a review of ivy-league [TS]

  privilege or whatever like I i love that [TS]

  stuff still because it's because yeah [TS]

  its feature writing it's good feature [TS]

  writing but i don't know i just like you [TS]

  I i used to read 600 reviews a week of [TS]

  new records of live shows of three [TS]

  issues i mean i would sit and just read [TS]

  reviews reviews reviews reads of stuff I [TS]

  never intended to listen to of stuff [TS]

  that I knew backwards and forwards like [TS]

  writing reviews and reading reviews felt [TS]

  like a completely separate art form and [TS]

  I do not do it anymore it's so strange [TS]

  it's like it's I guess it's like [TS]

  somebody that used to buy seven inches [TS]

  and then stopped by 7 inches [TS]

  except I I can't even really look over [TS]

  at the milk crates full of record [TS]

  reviews that I read and even go paw [TS]

  through them i mean i suppose i could go [TS]

  find an old copy of snipe hunt from 1993 [TS]

  and i would love it I probably still [TS]

  love it but yeah and and also its I mean [TS]

  the role of the review has always been [TS]

  kind of as much about the reviewer as [TS]

  the review my way I mean if you think [TS]

  about you know going back to i mean [TS]

  certainly in film what they call film [TS]

  criticism or movie reviewing their you [TS]

  know it was it wasn't until the eighties [TS]

  and the introduction of cisco [TS]

  neighborhoods thumbs up thumbs down [TS]

  before then yeah you have stars and [TS]

  stuff but by and large it was about like [TS]

  what this what this movie mint and the [TS]

  night stars when do when was the star [TS]

  system of movie reviewing introduced I [TS]

  feel like um I think it's been around [TS]

  that's a really good question i don't [TS]

  know the answer but i'm thinking of [TS]

  stuff think about like a people magazine [TS]

  used to have jeers and cheering more but [TS]

  like even in TV Guide remember when [TS]

  you're a little kid you're reading TV [TS]

  Guide they would have stars move for the [TS]

  movies and again I think that's like a [TS]

  syndicated service fine but I mean to be [TS]

  as someone who considers themselves [TS]

  think about the difference between being [TS]

  a movie reviewer i was on a pocket [TS]

  recently talking about this really funny [TS]

  website [TS]

  the kids in mind which is a site that is [TS]

  very specifically for parents to get [TS]

  reviews of like what happened in a movie [TS]

  it's so funny [TS]

  it ends up reading almost like porn oh [TS]

  we have a start they have a star system [TS]

  which is how much profanity sex and [TS]

  violence from 0 to 10 and but then [TS]

  there's this entire exhaustive page of [TS]

  all the actual specific things that led [TS]

  them to give those ratings and like I [TS]

  say it does get a little like porn it's [TS]

  it's so specific like you know spongebob [TS]

  pulls down the bathing suit on a [TS]

  starfish you know and you see his butt [TS]

  crack [TS]

  come on with ya but I mean that i wanna [TS]

  i want a supercut of all those hmm i [TS]

  mean is that journalism [TS]

  well it's practical it's the thing is [TS]

  you know it's very practical so I find [TS]

  myself frequently despite myself going [TS]

  to Rotten Tomatoes is my favorite movie [TS]

  reviews just to get a feel right it [TS]

  doesn't mean I'm not gonna like it cause [TS]

  it got fifty percent but if it did get [TS]

  ninety percent i am kind of more than [TS]

  the aggregate right there aggregating [TS]

  all these different reviews don't [TS]

  actually this is so such a Philistine [TS]

  but I'm not [TS]

  that's super interested in what any one [TS]

  critic in the United States had to say [TS]

  about the movie but that aggregate [TS]

  picture is very interesting to me but [TS]

  that ain't journalism [TS]

  I mean what the part that I'm therefore [TS]

  is very practical [TS]

  well and that's that was always that was [TS]

  always one of the interesting things [TS]

  about the promise of the internet right [TS]

  that we were that through aggregating a [TS]

  million voices we were going to get [TS]

  closer to the truth because we wouldn't [TS]

  be we wouldn't have gatekeepers right [TS]

  anyway right it would just be like it [TS]

  wasn't yet because I'm used to be one [TS]

  and let's talk about what you're really [TS]

  saying which is it used to be that if [TS]

  you picked up the new york times you can [TS]

  count on that being nominally the best [TS]

  and brightest and reporting but it was a [TS]

  very specific point of view that was [TS]

  virtually hegemonic right right and and [TS]

  and the internet was like going to [TS]

  democratize everything [TS]

  and there would be this you would have [TS]

  the you would have the well essentially [TS]

  the voice of the Borg everything would [TS]

  be seeing double everything would be [TS]

  knowable and you would just you listen [TS]

  it you would eliminate the five-star [TS]

  review and the one star review and then [TS]

  concentrate on you know that aggravating [TS]

  5003 star reviews into some kind of [TS]

  sensible idea about it but you know I [TS]

  was out in was out in a town last night [TS]

  called silverdale in Washington which is [TS]

  a place that used to just be used to be [TS]

  like Navy support personnel and then [TS]

  people who ran out of gas and just [TS]

  started living in their car and now [TS]

  silverdale in the last 25 years has [TS]

  turned into just a giant suburban it's [TS]

  in a way kind of a suburban metropolis [TS]

  it's just suburbs as far as the eye can [TS]

  see and I'm over there and it's like oh [TS]

  we're hungry [TS]

  what do we do we go on the internet the [TS]

  first thing that comes up is help i have [TS]

  never I've never written a yelp review [TS]

  yeah and in a way i feel like i have [TS]

  read enough of them that i almost I [TS]

  almost always to the community of of [TS]

  humans to add yelp reviews just because [TS]

  I take and take and take and I never [TS]

  give back but I hate yelp and I hate the [TS]

  police so much i get i use it [TS]

  yeah i don't know why i use it because [TS]

  if I see the star I see it's two and a [TS]

  half stars that's gonna have an [TS]

  impression and then I want to read the [TS]

  reviews are like are you kidding me no [TS]

  you always very very literate and yet [TS]

  here i am in silverdale and i'm looking [TS]

  for a mediterranean restaurant because I [TS]

  feel like having some stuffed grape [TS]

  leaves and here this program pops up out [TS]

  of nowhere it tells me where one is [TS]

  that's nearby and then it gives me this [TS]

  sort of it gives me this Sisyphean [TS]

  choice right because the reviews are [TS]

  inconclusive [TS]

  there's a there's some reviews they're [TS]

  like this is the most amazing place [TS]

  and then there are all these reviews are [TS]

  like it was terrible [TS]

  the waitress was rude and the and the [TS]

  grape leaves didn't even taste like [TS]

  grapes [TS]

  it's just like what is that what that [TS]

  was and then you go and so so then you [TS]

  think you're like rolling the rolling [TS]

  the dice and in a way rolling the dice [TS]

  imagining that you're full of [TS]

  information but in fact rolling the dice [TS]

  in exactly the same way as if you had [TS]

  looked it up in the phone book and [TS]

  pulled up out front of it and said do [TS]

  you want to go in there [TS]

  does it look okay and so you go in full [TS]

  of information but with actually no [TS]

  information because what it boils down [TS]

  to is you're gonna walk into a place it [TS]

  down and try it out and your experiences [TS]

  you know like none of those reviews are [TS]

  so far none of them helped and what [TS]

  ended up happening was we were the only [TS]

  people in the restaurant [TS]

  the waitress was great the food was [TS]

  amazing and it was like but how would my [TS]

  yelp review add to the conversation [TS]

  right the next time the next person that [TS]

  comes along and reads that it might be [TS]

  five o'clock at night there's 200 people [TS]

  in the restaurant it's a completely [TS]

  different [TS]

  I I told you I totally agree because on [TS]

  most of those reviews ok on the one hand [TS]

  this is just my impression as somebody [TS]

  who mostly tries to avoid reading the [TS]

  actual reviews but i think people treat [TS]

  it like a blog a lot of the time and [TS]

  there is a certain amount of status to [TS]

  being somebody who reviews a lot and [TS]

  gets their reviews like meta reviewed [TS]

  like hey this person's a good review its [TS]

  a top reviewer like there's all that's [TS]

  how the internet works now right you get [TS]

  points to get Wolfie 44 going on doing [TS]

  that stuff but anybody is a normal [TS]

  person that was going to leave a review [TS]

  i mean i think over seventy-five percent [TS]

  of the time you would only leave review [TS]

  if something very unusual and unexpected [TS]

  how that's right that's right you are [TS]

  the year the outlier right somebody like [TS]

  me that had a great experience or or a [TS]

  surprising like that was kind of weird [TS]

  like everything was great except this [TS]

  one dish right or exactly or you could [TS]

  say but no I think about how you begin a [TS]

  review like that i was i was visiting [TS]

  town I knew nothing about this [TS]

  neighborhood and I had a surprising [TS]

  experience here because i didn't know [TS]

  this place would be this good [TS]

  it still comes down to you it's still [TS]

  about like your personality and then [TS]

  those there's not [TS]

  it's just well speaking of which I [TS]

  really weird experience this man will [TS]

  give me a review [TS]

  well so you know my frozen bacon process [TS]

  yeah so i made a bunch of bacon and you [TS]

  know what i've been i've been going to [TS]

  the German butcher and getting the hand [TS]

  made bacon that had been lovingly hand [TS]

  padded room and I was just at like a [TS]

  chain grocery store and there was some [TS]

  like mega like three pound bag of bacon [TS]

  for five dollars and I was like you know [TS]

  what I don't give a shit right now I was [TS]

  I was hungry I was confused i bought a [TS]

  three pound bag of like hormel bacon and [TS]

  I took it home and I did I did the bacon [TS]

  method I frozen its individual bags [TS]

  I've been enjoying this bacon quite a [TS]

  bit it is just it's just normal bacon [TS]

  right but this morning on my way rushing [TS]

  out to go to the office I grabbed a bag [TS]

  of frozen bacon I took a cup of two day [TS]

  old coffee and microwaved it as I [TS]

  normally do and then I poured some [TS]

  half-and-half into it to to take the [TS]

  edge off but it was a new thing of [TS]

  half-and-half and I put a little bit [TS]

  extra little bit too much happen if i [TS]

  don't like it to be [TS]

  I don't like it to be creamy I wanted to [TS]

  just be a little coffee with a little [TS]

  splash you know just a little like [TS]

  little fireworks in there but so I put [TS]

  too much half-and-half and i'm walking [TS]

  out the door and I've got my microwave [TS]

  coffee in one hand in a in a beer mug of [TS]

  beer stein my frozen bacon and the other [TS]

  and as a mormon up the truck and I take [TS]

  a take a bite of delicious frozen bacon [TS]

  oh here's the here's the other the other [TS]

  wrinkle when I was making the bacon I [TS]

  ran out of paper towels and so I did not [TS]

  have a [TS]

  system by which i could pat the grease [TS]

  I'll right right right and so I just put [TS]

  I just said you know what people have [TS]

  been eating bacon for thousands of years [TS]

  before paper towels were they even [TS]

  invented by man or a mouse and so I just [TS]

  put the greasy bacon in the bag and put [TS]

  it in the freezer so the bacon had a [TS]

  pretty good coding of frozen grease on [TS]

  it so I eat a couple of pieces of frozen [TS]

  greasy bacon and then I take a sip of [TS]

  over microwaved two-day-old coffee with [TS]

  too much cream in it and the combination [TS]

  of those two substances hot and cold [TS]

  crazy and greasy with the coffee as a [TS]

  bonding agent created a new polymer in [TS]

  my mouth and on my tongue where it was [TS]

  like I'm the inside of my mouth had been [TS]

  a tad itself been processed somehow so [TS]

  that might bite my tongue no longer felt [TS]

  like a friend if I'd known for a long [TS]

  time [TS]

  put it up oxidized it felt like someone [TS]

  wearing a helmet was in my mouth and was [TS]

  trying to was trying to like strip [TS]

  wallpaper up off of one of out of an [TS]

  abandoned house that's a good review and [TS]

  I was like this is really not what I was [TS]

  expecting but it wasn't entirely [TS]

  unpleasant and so it persisted and I i [TS]

  put the car in gear and I'd driving down [TS]

  the road and I'm exploring my new mouth [TS]

  with this with this new helmeted friend [TS]

  knew who it is unclear whether he's a [TS]

  friend yet but he's certainly an ally [TS]

  and and it lasted probably for [TS]

  half-an-hour basic this experience there [TS]

  was a tingling there was because I [TS]

  picked the song [TS]

  it was also playing a role i don't know [TS]

  i'm still reeling from it it sounds like [TS]

  you're not- you're ambivalent well as [TS]

  your helmet friend i'm i'm glad that I'm [TS]

  glad that that's not still going on in [TS]

  my mouth i'm glad that that i'm not sure [TS]

  if i will repeat it immediately but i do [TS]

  feel like that particular polymer might [TS]

  be of use in science [TS]

  hmm and if there are people out there [TS]

  listening this program who are in the [TS]

  science or science as stem careers they [TS]

  call it maybe experiment with those [TS]

  ingredients as a kind of like maybe new [TS]

  anesthetic or you know you never know [TS]

  what that stuff is going to do right it [TS]

  could be a cure for polio although we [TS]

  don't we don't need one of those for now [TS]

  right but but you know that kind of [TS]

  experimentation [TS]

  I don't think we need to go all the way [TS]

  up the Amazon to find new grasses that [TS]

  contain harare or whatever i think i may [TS]

  have I may have manufactured sure RA in [TS]

  my own rap by combining these beakers of [TS]

  like material that shouldn't ever be put [TS]

  or maybe should be put together on this [TS]

  is like the hundred monkeys typing [TS]

  typing on typewriter how how many [TS]

  millennia might have been before [TS]

  somebody came up with this particular [TS]

  mixture [TS]

  well that that's the thing i don't think [TS]

  that frozen bacon is very common [TS]

  I think microwave coffee is pretty [TS]

  common i think over creamed coffee know [TS]

  there's like three or four things here [TS]

  also a big Stein there's several parts [TS]

  to this that are that are unique [TS]

  next I'm sitting in a cold truck I mean [TS]

  there's a and it's kind of you know it's [TS]

  it's a big motor so it's kind of [TS]

  vibrating me there's a little bit of a [TS]

  it's it's not quite a centrifuge but [TS]

  there is a mixer [TS]

  I mean this is not a thing people have [TS]

  been eating bacon and drinking coffee [TS]

  for millennia [TS]

  but i don't know if this particular set [TS]

  of circumstances that never occurred [TS]

  before and the Black Swan so I don't [TS]

  know everything on this everything on [TS]

  this podcast so far has been creative [TS]

  commons right yeah everybody everybody [TS]

  just gets to take it and only make sure [TS]

  to have it as long as you credit it to [TS]

  us [TS]

  you can go ahead and remix it and make [TS]

  your own albums girl hot cast just out [TS]

  of out of remixes sure sure I create a [TS]

  whole platform at if you took this [TS]

  podcast and you sped my voice up so that [TS]

  it was at the pitch of your voice and [TS]

  you slowed your voice down so that the [TS]

  picture of mine [TS]

  it wouldn't be that much of a of a [TS]

  monkey right but you'd have to monkey [TS]

  with their voices a little bit how would [TS]

  that change the dynamic of the [TS]

  conversation for the listener I'm gonna [TS]

  say a lot [TS]

  mhm mhm these we have our special [TS]

  cadences right if I was a little bit [TS]

  faster and a little bit you know like [TS]

  just picked up a quarter tone yeah and [TS]

  you were a little bit more laconic well [TS]

  you know let's not go crazy with the [TS]

  formula right I've been sure you know [TS]

  what you know what Castello di just [TS]

  start punching a bit for no reason [TS]

  no you'd know you don't fuck with the [TS]

  formula no you don't [TS]

  don't fuck with the formula i'm just [TS]

  wondering if if if a scientist have an [TS]

  intrepid like thought scientist was out [TS]

  there and was like I'm just you know [TS]

  what I'm going to slow one guy up and [TS]

  speed is slow one guy up and speed the [TS]

  other guy down and down and then apply [TS]

  that algorithm to all the past podcasts [TS]

  em they're talking about a kind of [TS]

  multiverse that could be created [TS]

  that's right create create a multiverse [TS]

  where or no one expected it and then oh [TS]

  and then play those play those episodes [TS]

  to someone who had never heard the show [TS]

  before [TS]

  and say what do you think these guys [TS]

  would still be helpful right yeah yeah [TS]

  yeah but people just be like what is [TS]

  this is just very unsettled you know [TS]

  John I encourage science i think it's a [TS]

  good idea i think i think [TS]

  experimentation is as interesting a [TS]

  little worried that somebody's probably [TS]

  try it now [TS]

  really weird but there's a lot of [TS]

  amateur scientist a lot of lay persons [TS]

  who you know my just want to go to do [TS]

  that and I I kind of a little scared [TS]

  with what that would sound like you know [TS]

  I feel like this podcast is basically a [TS]

  bear talking to a raccoon and if you do [TS]

  buy the record my little my little black [TS]

  paws you took a few turns his head a [TS]

  little bit if you did chewing on a piece [TS]

  of garbage what maybe if you took a bit [TS]

  of conversation be a barren raccoon and [TS]

  you made the record sound like a parent [TS]

  the pair sound like a raccoon that's [TS]

  going to upset the animal kingdom right [TS]

  people are gonna be sure that coffee was [TS]

  ok John I honestly have no idea [TS]

  and frankly you might have got into a [TS]

  bit of a few state right now I don't [TS]

  know how long that cream was in the [TS]

  refrigerator remember buying and I was [TS]

  out of town for weeks [TS]

  this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

  sponsored by Squarespace the all-in-one [TS]

  platform that makes it fast and easy to [TS]

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  always thank you so much to our friends [TS]

  at square space for a great service and [TS]

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  Squarespace build it beautiful oh dear [TS]

  dear dear [TS]

  you know I hate to bring up gravy again [TS]

  mhm but uh I did you notice the number [TS]

  of people that pushed back on the great [TS]

  like I expected people would respond to [TS]

  that episode by saying i love gravy [TS]

  I didn't get that I thought they were I [TS]

  got it I got three or four people that [TS]

  were like gravy know what you got to be [TS]

  kidding know what you what you really [TS]

  want is like leak super mental mental [TS]

  mental butter or you know like they had [TS]

  something else besides greater for God [TS]

  that was better or you know change the [TS]

  calculation somehow the right right well [TS]

  it's that this is the god damn it this [TS]

  is the beauty of this ecosystem of this [TS]

  gravy multiverse is that there are there [TS]

  are so many options in so many [TS]

  combinations I think if anything we're [TS]

  saying we just want to be more sauce [TS]

  positive [TS]

  yeah yeah that's absolutely right i I [TS]

  don't I don't have a dog in this fight I [TS]

  don't have a raccoon in this bear [TS]

  whatever it is that people want to do I [TS]

  just want them to feel free i would [TS]

  encourage them to to try saucing more [TS]

  things and and maybe sometimes have a [TS]

  couple sauces [TS]

  that's what I'm saying I I went through [TS]

  a real Sasuke's recently that was sort [TS]

  of in addition to my normal Sasuke's in [TS]

  your saucer your sake I am and it was us [TS]

  it was a sauce [TS]

  it was a level it was soft level above [TS]

  the normal level and i started any time [TS]

  I cooked something and there was [TS]

  anything left in the pan i would start [TS]

  making a sauce i would take the thing [TS]

  and i would put it over on a plate and i [TS]

  would let it go cold while I SAT and [TS]

  like focused on this sauce is gonna get [TS]

  dr. Frankenstein maddie is kept i was [TS]

  just like the sauce but the problem was [TS]

  I'll of Marsala wine [TS]

  yeah in a sauce it gives it a little [TS]

  pill but I couldn't get away from the [TS]

  marsala I would make the sauce I be [TS]

  liking this is pretty good and what does [TS]

  it need a little bit of member and then [TS]

  I would always throw the wine in and so [TS]

  every sauce ended up tasting the same [TS]

  LOL and uh and I that included like [TS]

  cheese sauces and I was just I couldn't [TS]

  stop this is some one of the problems [TS]

  with my cooking is like I know what I [TS]

  know basically what ten ingredients do [TS]

  there are 800 ingredients I don't know [TS]

  what they do [TS]

  uh-huh attend ingredients i dunno what [TS]

  they do I end up putting them in [TS]

  everything [TS]

  yeah i'm the same way I'm exact all got [TS]

  on the same way I cook I do so few [TS]

  things like a man but I really cook like [TS]

  a man not a good way i mean it's it's [TS]

  it's going to be kosher salt garlic [TS]

  powder [TS]

  mrs. dash uh-huh and a little bit of [TS]

  Lowery's to put a little hours on there [TS]

  you know what I'm i don't i'm [TS]

  uncomfortable saying this because my [TS]

  wife kind of knows i do this and doesn't [TS]

  like it I'll put some accent applause [TS]

  max sentence seriously funny i'm a [TS]

  little miss injure people must join you [TS]

  know no disrespect to the people who [TS]

  think that they're allergic to MSG comma [TS]

  but yes i will put in it is how amazing [TS]

  you hate crime [TS]

  hey grunts that's okay so here's what [TS]

  happened and I'm you know this is one of [TS]

  those things one of those adults logs [TS]

  were pretty much knew how this was gonna [TS]

  go but I threw myself into it anyway [TS]

  here's what happened last episode for [TS]

  those of you have welcome welcome to [TS]

  never heard the show we ended up talking [TS]

  a lot at the end of the program about [TS]

  the various sauces and gravies that we [TS]

  enjoyed and how when we had been on a [TS]

  cruise three weeks ago we were able to [TS]

  have access two sauces and gravies of [TS]

  many kinds all you care to eat anyway [TS]

  and it made it made us into gravy [TS]

  scientist [TS]

  then a few days later I went out and had [TS]

  like our quarterly comic meet up and I [TS]

  swear to Christ John I don't know what [TS]

  happened to me I i did go into a few [TS]

  state and for like an hour and a half [TS]

  you ask anybody who was there all I did [TS]

  was talk about gravy for like an hour [TS]

  and a half maybe that's why I'm getting [TS]

  so much mail maybe our i'm getting mail [TS]

  from people who were there I i was [TS]

  really pitching apparently I i have [TS]

  talked about this in many podcast and [TS]

  other places before the idea of having [TS]

  basically a mall restaurant that's all [TS]

  about sauces apparently this is [TS]

  something I've gone through before long [TS]

  story short I want some fucking gravy in [TS]

  my life and and here's the dumb guy part [TS]

  is I wanted it to be easy so here's what [TS]

  i did i knew this was going to work i [TS]

  went to the store I went to the safeway [TS]

  i went to the aisle with the gravy's oh [TS]

  no and i bought a bunch of different [TS]

  gravy oak and gravies and gravy mixes [TS]

  and can I just tell you so far and [TS]

  understand now like I'm like a little [TS]

  child going into this i'm so excited [TS]

  very first fucking gravy [TS]

  yeah you know what they've been a [TS]

  literal abortion every yeah i know it's [TS]

  terrible somehow they put in that it's [TS]

  not the sampan gum it is some other sort [TS]

  of a multiplier or stabilizer that they [TS]

  put in there that makes every canned [TS]

  gravy tastes like you are licking and [TS]

  licking a pan in a restaurant that [TS]

  really should be cleaned rather than [TS]

  linked yeah you're looking a dirty pants [TS]

  here--here's the thing is the other part [TS]

  this is I really had to fight myself [TS]

  because I I'm an ingredient reader even [TS]

  if you know I don't always not always [TS]

  the healthiest either but i do like to [TS]

  know what's unhealthy about what I'm [TS]

  eating and you know me I'm a pretty [TS]

  healthy eater I don't have high [TS]

  standards [TS]

  yeah but basically there's a flavor that [TS]

  I wanted somewhere in the first 10 [TS]

  ingredients is a flavor that I wanted [TS]

  and then six to eight things that I [TS]

  generally try to avoid in everything [TS]

  that I yeah right like the taste of [TS]

  plastic [TS]

  well cases there somewhere in there is [TS]

  chicken broth but then you've got you've [TS]

  got corn starch fuck that yeah i mean i [TS]

  know you gotta have that in gravy but [TS]

  like the first ingredients are all like [TS]

  grains that I try to avoid yeah [TS]

  bombs and stuff like that doesn't come [TS]

  screams and cums I mean I i tried given [TS]

  the given the choice i will avoid a [TS]

  greater gone because it in a non gravy [TS]

  environment those are not things that [TS]

  you want adulterating your food [TS]

  no I tried I tried to pack oh god I got [TS]

  some Universal envelopes like taco mix [TS]

  oh yeah yeah I don't know what I'm [TS]

  thinking John why am I saying this i got [TS]

  i got like six or eight of those and [TS]

  then a couple jars [TS]

  yeah the the packs are just somebody [TS]

  like crushed up to bullion cubes and [TS]

  then mixed in some it's a board meeting [TS]

  in a bag basically people go like what's [TS]

  a bunch of shit we've got that we can [TS]

  put a photo on and charged a dollar 89 [TS]

  for okay fine so I got the nicest one I [TS]

  could find the nicest assist envelope of [TS]

  sausage gravy i could find because you [TS]

  had milk instead of water right [TS]

  obviously all walk we had two cups of [TS]

  milk to this pocket of powder it was so [TS]

  disgusting it doesn't taste like it [TS]

  really it's what I imagine maybe Soylent [TS]

  tastes like listen I i wish you had [TS]

  called me i mean in general i want you [TS]

  to call me [TS]

  yes in situations where i was having [TS]

  with these inflection points located one [TS]

  way or another [TS]

  yeah I'm liable listen i have tried [TS]

  every package sauce and a so many of [TS]

  them you just need to run you need to [TS]

  run from the from so many of those the [TS]

  Swanson's never bought this I don't [TS]

  mccormick packs i don't buy those taco [TS]

  packs i know that's real ghetto kind of [TS]

  kind of food not get out you know what I [TS]

  mean it's a real downscale except here's [TS]

  here's the beers the problem you want to [TS]

  stroganoff you know how does a man make [TS]

  a stroganoff with having to throw away a [TS]

  lot of food like I could get a [TS]

  stouffer's right yeah yeah you're [TS]

  talking about the Salisbury steaks [TS]

  really took me back i'm thinking i'm [TS]

  going to explore some Salisbury steaks [TS]

  and some strong enough i love stroganoff [TS]

  oh that's one of the that's one of the [TS]

  all-time great foods stroganoff with [TS]

  with noodles [TS]

  oh boy but you know what happened to [TS]

  stroganoff siz that stroganoff have [TS]

  become one of these like one of these [TS]

  secret with artisanal food weapons on [TS]

  no people have artificially weaponized [TS]

  stroganoff sauce so you walk into a [TS]

  restaurant and you're like uh I don't [TS]

  know what is all this I don't want any [TS]

  of this too so I I think I know exactly [TS]

  what you're talking about [TS]

  I think of food you take a peasant food [TS]

  up having for the perfect the way it is [TS]

  yep and then you try to make it small [TS]

  batch yeah and then you put then [TS]

  obviously the stress so I'm like oh [TS]

  they've got strung up on the menu shit [TS]

  you know what that's what i want i want [TS]

  a strong enough I don't you know I don't [TS]

  need like any like beef tongue carpaccio [TS]

  and mediterranean stroganoff with a bang [TS]

  of southwestern spice yeah a little and [TS]

  one of the worst part about it is it [TS]

  comes and they have obviously put a new [TS]

  york stake in it and it's like why is [TS]

  this why is this full of new york state [TS]

  any order on death row John that's not [TS]

  like that kind of food for a person [TS]

  who's for in a free society [TS]

  oh my god if i had seriously i have us i [TS]

  have a three-ring binder of my death row [TS]

  food [TS]

  DAV thought about some pairings well as [TS]

  you know as you know I haven't read [TS]

  Shakespeare because I'm saving it for [TS]

  prison yeah and then there are some [TS]

  things that I'm kind of saving for death [TS]

  row with that if that's how it is that's [TS]

  how this all plays out and one of those [TS]

  is like a you know that last menu I've [TS]

  seen some amazing men used to fried [TS]

  chickens [TS]

  I read one the other day that woman is [TS]

  on death row she had a pretty amazing [TS]

  last meal stacked up if you trust that's [TS]

  right find it [TS]

  drywall dry white toast to fried [TS]

  chickens and act like you know hell yes [TS]

  I'm gonna I'm gonna have like it's gonna [TS]

  be that will be the one time that I [TS]

  topics without without wrinkling my nose [TS]

  at the affair right because I'm gonna be [TS]

  like I want I want a little bit of the [TS]

  following 60 foods [TS]

  there's a lady on death row in Georgia [TS]

  she was two cheeseburgers two large [TS]

  orders of fries lemonade cherry vanilla [TS]

  ice cream popcorn corn bread and a salad [TS]

  made of boiled eggs tomatoes bell [TS]

  peppers onions carrots cheese and [TS]

  buttermilk dressing [TS]

  Wow mhm there are some i can point to [TS]

  some restaurants in Nebraska where they [TS]

  eat once you get that right on the menu [TS]

  is actually a platter and order is [TS]

  beyond a single place right that's all [TS]

  her number number number two yeah i [TS]

  think that i would have to have some [TS]

  comfort foods I'd have some like you [TS]

  know what you know what a food that I [TS]

  really have always liked chicken cordon [TS]

  bleu [TS]

  mmm chicken koji cordon bleu yes it got [TS]

  a little bit ruined for me when I worked [TS]

  in restaurants where that was there are [TS]

  certain kinds of things that can be [TS]

  really good veal Oscar certain kinds of [TS]

  things that you just knew had been like [TS]

  made a few days ago and we're sitting in [TS]

  a big tray yeah when it's done well that [TS]

  can be that can be quite good so one of [TS]

  the first times that i really felt like [TS]

  an adult i was in college i was probably [TS]

  one sophomore and I had a up at the [TS]

  party didn't happen at my house and I [TS]

  think it's because my house even when I [TS]

  was feeling like an adult my house was [TS]

  generally uninhabitable but I wanted [TS]

  things like the large bottles of P you [TS]

  were saving well or at that point in [TS]

  time like the pony keg that had a pony [TS]

  keg that had sort of let go sour and the [TS]

  the the party a few days before we're at [TS]

  a certain point in the night people just [TS]

  started putting their cigarettes out on [TS]

  the floor so I was at a friend's house [TS]

  but it was my party you know that kind [TS]

  of scene where it's like we're having a [TS]

  party it's at your house but it's my [TS]

  party and the party was and like we [TS]

  invited all the girls we knew and they [TS]

  all came and it was it was a big enough [TS]

  group probably 20 people that if that [TS]

  felt like a party and not just a [TS]

  gathering and my idea was we were all [TS]

  going we're going to assembly line some [TS]

  chicken cordon bleu and so we had all [TS]

  the ingredients all of bowls of milk and [TS]

  egg and breadcrumbs and people were on [TS]

  board with this [TS]

  people were like yes let's do it and i [TS]

  think it was you know i mean it was [TS]

  during a time when just the nature of [TS]

  how we threw parties we were always a [TS]

  little hungry if you know what I mean [TS]

  and so we got this assembly line going [TS]

  and everybody thought we were pounding [TS]

  these chicken breasts flat and we were [TS]

  rolling them up and we had [TS]

  we got an officer good ingredients and [TS]

  we had the best time it was basically [TS]

  the whole the whole party was just [TS]

  making chicken cordon bleu's we were [TS]

  cycling through the oven and let it come [TS]

  out and you'd better let them cool down [TS]

  and then everybody would try one and [TS]

  then another one would would be ready [TS]

  it was a really good sounds that's [TS]

  delightful yeah and and the the problem [TS]

  is i'm pretty sure that was maybe 1989 [TS]

  i'm pretty sure i have never made a [TS]

  chicken cordon bleu since that time [TS]

  because it really was it [TS]

  it's a lot of work uh-huh you know just [TS]

  like toss one of those off right but you [TS]

  can buy them in a box yeah some of those [TS]

  kinds of things are better than others [TS]

  for sure i'm just reading here on this [TS]

  page that says in 2011 Texas stop the [TS]

  last meal tradition after Lawrence [TS]

  Russell Brewer ask for a large final [TS]

  meal including two chicken fried steaks [TS]

  triple bacon cheeseburger and meat [TS]

  lovers Pizza and refused to eat it [TS]

  oh he dogged him right at the end you [TS]

  ruined it for everyone [TS]

  he was like you know what now I'm not [TS]

  even gonna eat it because i just [TS]

  realized that you're about to kill me [TS]

  kind of weird I mean really think about [TS]

  that though I mean so now anybody who's [TS]

  one of the many many people sentenced to [TS]

  death in Texas can't get a final meal [TS]

  just because this guy was being kind of [TS]

  ornery well and it seems weird like what [TS]

  did that cost them 30 bucks yeah they're [TS]

  they're mad about the 30 bucks that that [TS]

  the guy that was about to die didn't [TS]

  heat if I just make him feel bad you [TS]

  know that's i'm guessing that that that [TS]

  kind of mentality in Texas comes right [TS]

  from the top down [TS]

  I think that's probably Rick Perry that [TS]

  came across his desk he was like you [TS]

  know what we're not going to give [TS]

  anybody a dinner and bust it up and [TS]

  bring it to me and people were like he's [TS]

  the governor [TS]

  yep he must know on a country so I now [TS]

  now I'm on the horns of a dilemma [TS]

  because i do have these packets it was [TS]

  not a large financial investment I'm i [TS]

  don't see i'll try maybe one more but [TS]

  now i'm figuring I'm trying to figure [TS]

  out what my options are [TS]

  what I'm sorry I don't mean to around at [TS]

  all i figured i might move up the line a [TS]

  little bit maybe i'll see if whole foods [TS]

  has a line of gravies i can look on [TS]

  amazon i haven't seen much on costco but [TS]

  you know my goal was to get it where [TS]

  it's kind of like you're frozen bacon [TS]

  program i want to get it to where i can [TS]

  have a a ready supply of small amounts [TS]

  of gravies and sauces that can be [TS]

  deployed tactically as needed so much [TS]

  some I'm gonna again just speak from my [TS]

  experience but are you familiar with the [TS]

  concept I'm sure you are but there are [TS]

  there are also their blogs devoted to [TS]

  this i'm almost sure i think i read [TS]

  about them in Sunset magazine where you [TS]

  basically use prepackaged foods as a [TS]

  component in making what ultimately [TS]

  looks like a home-cooked meal [TS]

  mm you know what I mean like you decamp [TS]

  some that sounds like something i do ya [TS]

  UD can't some some some some fairly good [TS]

  quality packaged stuff and then you add [TS]

  your own you contribute your own fresh [TS]

  ingredients to it and pretty soon it's [TS]

  it's not clear where the processing for [TS]

  the process unity is an artisanal [TS]

  version of the the fifties campbell soup [TS]

  recipes start out with this as a base as [TS]

  a component as a building block [TS]

  yeah but it's not the center of the meal [TS]

  like they want you to know that you if [TS]

  you put some french fried onions on top [TS]

  of it it's it's grandma's it's grandma [TS]

  screamed creamed spinach sauce but so [TS]

  what i end up doing with that stuff is [TS]

  first of all as you know my my first [TS]

  policy is if you buy something make it [TS]

  all don't reserve half of the package [TS]

  for later make it all [TS]

  yeah and so I would you i would use [TS]

  those i'm looking at a bucket or a [TS]

  terrine just that's right get your [TS]

  biggest pot out start with this garbage [TS]

  gravy that you have that you that cost [TS]

  59 cents but that you feel pot committed [TS]

  to another you don't want to just throw [TS]

  it away and then build on that with [TS]

  actual gravy making techniques until you [TS]

  have made a pot of gravy until you made [TS]

  a poder gravy [TS]

  oh it's good it's like Stone Soup you [TS]

  start out with this little strange thing [TS]

  you build and build and build that's [TS]

  right you build your own [TS]

  you keep adding you know those gravy's [TS]

  that don't say add milk [TS]

  they're wrong add milk and Grady hacker [TS]

  John you know what you throw a little [TS]

  bit of a gluten-free flour in there you [TS]

  little bit of like what what did i see i [TS]

  was a trader joes for the day and [TS]

  there's cashew flower i don't know i [TS]

  bought it i don't even know what it does [TS]

  i don't know i wouldn't use that I look [TS]

  at it I'm like a shoe flower what is it [TS]

  looks like flower looks like corn flour [TS]

  and it's just groundnuts fascinating [TS]

  I feel like one of these days it's gonna [TS]

  be a situation where like a brother like [TS]

  a burglar comes into the house and I [TS]

  just all I the only weapon i have is I'm [TS]

  standing in the pantry for some reason [TS]

  the only weapon i have is this thing of [TS]

  cashew nut flour and I do you want to [TS]

  waste the stroganoff on it [TS]

  no I just throw it in his eyes piece [TS]

  like an engine power and money just like [TS]

  a lot of my Birds it smells like not my [TS]

  nut allergy [TS]

  yeah exactly falls to the floor gets [TS]

  hides an electric shock but uh but yeah [TS]

  I would build i would use those just as [TS]

  starters and then build a much bigger [TS]

  pot of stuff that the danger of that of [TS]

  course being that if the thing turns out [TS]

  to be terrible then you have a huge [TS]

  thing of terrible instead of a small [TS]

  thing of terror [TS]

  you just made me realize that when I [TS]

  think about the Windjammer the [TS]

  all-you-can-eat restaurant on the cruise [TS]

  the source the fount of gravy for our [TS]

  for our cruise you know what I think it [TS]

  is I think I'm really realizing you're [TS]

  right i need to man up because i like to [TS]

  think that it's about sauces and gravies [TS]

  but you know what it's also about the [TS]

  ease of the sauces and gravies all I had [TS]

  to do was say goodbye to my family walk [TS]

  away for 35 minutes and I could have [TS]

  grave you on anything so i need to let [TS]

  go i need to let go and let God and [TS]

  understand that if I'm gonna make a [TS]

  gravy i'm going to have to make a gravy [TS]

  yes yes so you're gonna put everything [TS]

  in there you know what one of the one of [TS]

  the things that I always do is if it's a [TS]

  if it's a thing that has like I made [TS]

  some cabbage soup the other day this is [TS]

  going to hear your that's going to blow [TS]

  your mind I got to tell you about this [TS]

  now i got the biggest pot I own which is [TS]

  a pretty big pot and I just started [TS]

  throwing cabbages in it and I'm thinking [TS]

  to myself I [TS]

  cabbage is not a that's not a thing that [TS]

  I in my in the top of my mind that I [TS]

  think I'm gonna like but it turns out [TS]

  every time somebody put some kind of [TS]

  cooked cabbage in front of me i always [TS]

  enjoy it [TS]

  mhm so I'm like about what goes with it [TS]

  i mean when you get you get it with like [TS]

  anything that's part of it [TS]

  unicorn be with them pretty good yeah [TS]

  but like cabbage shows up in things now [TS]

  and and it doesn't look appealing it [TS]

  always kind of looks like the skin of a [TS]

  cadaver that that washed up on the shore [TS]

  right the skin of a cadaver that the [TS]

  police boat is pulling over with a hook [TS]

  but it's actually really good so I'm [TS]

  like you know what I people people cook [TS]

  cabbages it's not that hard even the [TS]

  Irish cook cabbages [TS]

  yeah I'm even the simple library i'm [TS]

  gonna make I'm gonna make cabbage soup [TS]

  so I get this pot I put some chicken [TS]

  stock in there i throw some onions and I [TS]

  start cooking them i'd throw some leaks [TS]

  in there I don't even know what a leak [TS]

  is but I throw it in there and I start [TS]

  cooking it and I put some put some [TS]

  mildly your system can take this right i [TS]

  put the put a bunch of uh onions leeks [TS]

  and cabbage garlic and all and then some [TS]

  LOL you really live alone and threw a [TS]

  bunch of kom there just because [TS]

  yeah and then I start throwing cabbages [TS]

  and I throw a couple of cabbages in a [TS]

  red cabbage and I'm I and it's cooking [TS]

  i'm here to put keratin well on this one [TS]

  I did not I stayed away from the carrots [TS]

  but then I was like you know what this [TS]

  needs pound hamburger so i made some [TS]

  hamburger and I threw a pound of [TS]

  hamburger in here and then I was like [TS]

  fearless John was like you know what [TS]

  this you know what else I got in the [TS]

  freezer pound of ground turkey I don't [TS]

  even know why I bought that cook up the [TS]

  ground turkey throw it in and then I'm [TS]

  looking at the 10 spices that I know [TS]

  what they do and I'm like little little [TS]

  Hungarian paprika can't hurt and then [TS]

  all the things that you described write [TS]

  some garlic salt some oh I like that on [TS]

  the man spice i bought I bought one of [TS]

  those things uh you know when you go and [TS]

  you're like I think I think I'm gonna [TS]

  cook something I want some celery and [TS]

  the only the only serving size at the [TS]

  grocery store has a [TS]

  gallery is like a UH an acre of celery [TS]

  right like if I think that's how they [TS]

  get you a forest stand of celery you [TS]

  need a stock and you have to buy buy [TS]

  like a forest [TS]

  yeah you by like 50 stocks this thing is [TS]

  the thing is as big as a rugby ball and [TS]

  so I was like you know what I'm i got a [TS]

  big pot and so i take this whole celery [TS]

  thing this whole like scrum of celery [TS]

  and I chopped it into whatever have it [TS]

  the pieces that you know are the size of [TS]

  watch their the size of a pocket watch [TS]

  and I throw this whole thing in there [TS]

  and so pretty soon this this stuff and [TS]

  then I'm just like okay fucking in the [TS]

  hamburger and the turkey is in the pot [TS]

  at this point in the pot oh yeah I cook [TS]

  some mushrooms that through min and then [TS]

  I'm like fuck you pot you figure it out [TS]

  and so this stuff cooks on the stove for [TS]

  I don't know for forever and everyone so [TS]

  I walked by and look at it and I you [TS]

  know and I had my curse at it but in a [TS]

  friendly way [TS]

  sure you're just being encouraging I'm [TS]

  just like okay listen I know you guys [TS]

  don't know each other [TS]

  I know you haven't worked together [TS]

  before but I believe in you I believe in [TS]

  you [TS]

  celery cabbage turkey pretty cute [TS]

  yeah get it get it going so this thing [TS]

  cooks and it turns into this incall [TS]

  that's an incredible it has it's an [TS]

  incredible consistency that I feel like [TS]

  you could build an adobe house out of [TS]

  and eating it is kind of like if you [TS]

  close your eyes it's kind of like eating [TS]

  spaghetti [TS]

  it's so it's so Mouse substantial it's [TS]

  like yeah it's just so al dente and you [TS]

  know kind of crunchy and and and it's [TS]

  got like too much flavor it's great [TS]

  flavor [TS]

  and so I've got this i've got this pot [TS]

  in there that could they could feed [TS]

  Napoleon's army marching into Russia and [TS]

  I'm like this stuff will probably go all [TS]

  the other thing was I had a pound of [TS]

  sauerkraut threw that in there just no [TS]

  no and I god you're mad and it's this [TS]

  fantastic stuff that I don't think would [TS]

  ever go bad right it would just get it [TS]

  would just start tasting more and more [TS]

  like itself until it became kimchi is [TS]

  like a retired woman just because more [TS]

  and more like itself every day he know [TS]

  you know what wild women don't get the [TS]

  blues and neither does my cabbage soup [TS]

  cot dammit [TS]

  Jesus Christ so anyway that you know the [TS]

  first tasting though well your first [TS]

  impression is this is Adobe quality [TS]

  spaghetti soup it's got that substantial [TS]

  it's heavy it's it's got too much flavor [TS]

  in a good way [TS]

  yeah i was i was trippin because I had [TS]

  me i had committed so much material and [TS]

  I'm and in that and that I mean material [TS]

  miss ya right i had I I was like [TS]

  discourses of resources i was a I was [TS]

  Yossarian and I had our i was i was Bob [TS]

  Newhart in catch-22 [TS]

  I was committing material to this pot [TS]

  and if it went bad like Seattle sewers [TS]

  couldn't handle it i would have to take [TS]

  it out of town i'd have to put it in the [TS]

  trunk and drive it out of town and put [TS]

  it in the forest somewhere and then a [TS]

  year from now somebody would be flying [TS]

  overhead and maybe like why is what [TS]

  what's going on down there [TS]

  send in the troops understand captain it [TS]

  seems they're just not more delicious [TS]

  but but as it was it was this fantastic [TS]

  concoction that when i look at it it's [TS]

  really it's really like eight pounds of [TS]

  vegetables and a and a and a couple of [TS]

  pounds of of a small form of animals [TS]

  yeah like growth with some grass fed [TS]

  turkeys or [TS]

  turkeys or [TS]

  never and so anyway I feel like I feel [TS]

  like that's my latest triumph [TS]

  that's amazing John yeah so what do you [TS]

  do when you got to do when you get the [TS]

  leftovers you what to do with them do [TS]

  you put in freezer bags [TS]

  well so here's the thing every person [TS]

  who's been in my house in the last week [TS]

  i have basically forced to eat the cup [TS]

  of soup because I'm like listen the he [TS]

  at the more soup i take out of this pot [TS]

  the fuller the pot is it sits I've I've [TS]

  I've unlocked some miraculous grunts [TS]

  yeah I've unlock some metaphysical door [TS]

  and i have created the ultimate endless [TS]

  soup and so I'm just like try the soup [TS]

  and everybody's like a Roderick make [TS]

  cabbage soup i don't know i don't know [TS]

  if i had but I'm but i won't take no for [TS]

  an answer and I sit him down and I put [TS]

  the soup in front of them [TS]

  I'm like look at it and they're like oh [TS]

  it's like it really is just there's not [TS]

  a lot of color to it you know what I [TS]

  mean like I didn't put there's nothing [TS]

  in it that isn't it sounds like [TS]

  something you would use to like fill a [TS]

  hole in your driveway right away it [TS]

  looks up but then everybody tries it and [TS]

  everyone agrees that he was that it's a [TS]

  that it's a revolution in their mind i'm [TS]

  ashamed I'm ashamed because i am [TS]

  cleaving to the convenience even as I'm [TS]

  filled with desire and in craving [TS]

  gravy's I can feel myself like being [TS]

  pulled in that direction of just wanting [TS]

  the ease and your story your story of [TS]

  adventure really in cooking is is [TS]

  inspiring me and humiliating [TS]

  well but I mean it is it is a little bit [TS]

  of a difference between being a bachelor [TS]

  and and being a like a househusband in [TS]

  the sense that if I if I made a [TS]

  catastrophe [TS]

  I could slink out into the night and [TS]

  leave it by an abandoned couch somewhere [TS]

  i think that my Skeeter uh-huh [TS]

  put it over by skater right he probably [TS]

  you know a gary would probably try to [TS]

  use it for gas [TS]

  you just keep calling in the middle [TS]

  indistinct god damn it [TS]

  but but you know there are no [TS]

  consequences right nobody's going to [TS]

  come open the refrigerator and say we're [TS]

  all the food go dancing like no one's [TS]

  watching Joe that's exactly right [TS]

  so and the thing is sometimes the the [TS]

  race goes to the bolt up you know and in [TS]

  a way every time i do this i feel like i [TS]

  am the napoleon i am invading the Russia [TS]

  of the unknown right yeah I do [TS]

  I'm invading the rush of the unknown and [TS]

  every time I could lose 700 thousand [TS]

  troops to frostbite [TS]

  yes and sometimes i do east bracket just [TS]

  keep moving moving moving ghost ghost [TS]

  ghost [TS]

  hmm and then sometimes I am Napoleon [TS]

  that conquered Russia em right and I [TS]

  come back and I come back wondering why [TS]

  I ever thought to do that because it was [TS]

  a bad idea even if you had even if you [TS]

  conquer Russia it's a bad idea and I [TS]

  gotta run it and you gotta run it [TS]

  that's exactly right then you gotta run [TS]

  Russia and that's what i'm doing right [TS]

  now i'm running I conquered russia i [TS]

  gotta have it in a pot in my [TS]

  refrigerator and everybody that comes by [TS]

  gets a little you know it's a little [TS]

  taste of the Ukraine mr. you i would be [TS]

  shitting non-stop if I were you [TS]