Ep. 153: "The Time Buffalo"
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this episode of Roderick on the line is
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beep-boop-beep-boop-beep more was going
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it's going good at it's going great
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yeah how so good so good I was just uh I
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was just listening to some hold music
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and the whole music was maybe the best
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most appropriate hold music I'd ever
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heard in all the years
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what's that it was one lonely violin
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playing a kind of gypsy funeral music
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that's a very interesting choice you
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know and so often now you got to get on
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hold music and it's just like school or
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some terrible thing I never understood
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that and this was like just one violin
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just like 12 ya somethin mournful super
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mournful kva city is standing on the
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roof of his general just playing this
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single by Lynn and I was just like this
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is the greatest and it was kind of hero
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was all scratchy old system was like why
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aren't all why isn't all hold music like
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this i just i seriously want this it's
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it is important with my mood
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yeah I mean I there's so much about
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holes under must be reasonably is the
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way that they do but like there's seems
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like there's these worst practices of
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things were like you know the the
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ultimately as the person who's on the
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ideally you want to speak as quickly as
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possible but if you can't speak as
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quickly as possible
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it's nice to be able to like do other
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stuff or you know so you know I the
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thing is what drives me crazy especially
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if you're on like without the comcast
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company is it breaks in here click and
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you'll go take a speaker wherever we go
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and get here click and then the music
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stops and they go into an ad
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yeah where you know so I mean I almost
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feel like I wish they would just have
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some kind of a tone or 70
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the wrong approach but then also like
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you say systems are so shitty
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everything's all like jumping if it was
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good music it would sound like the worst
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am radio like inside of a fish tank
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right yeah and the the phone tree system
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that i just tried to navigate said you
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know for one press of for English press
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one side best one said for for the thing
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you're not interested in press one for
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the thing you're not interested in also
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press two for the thing you are
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interested in press three
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so I press three they said for the the
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permutation of the thing that you are
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interested in that you're not interested
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in press one for the permutation of the
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thing that you are interested in that
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you're not interested in press two for
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the permutation you are interested in
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press three and press three
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but it's like stuff you should have
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already been going to be there because
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you've already dismissed that
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yeah right and here we go and was so and
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I do that three or four times and then I
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get an A and finally the recorded
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message says for the thing for the exact
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reason that you are calling press one
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and I'm like here we go and i pressed
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one and it gave me a minute long
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recording of a voice telling me
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everything that I already knew and
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couldn't have been to this place in
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their phone tree without knowing right
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and then at the end of the phone miss at
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the end of that message there was no
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further option to progress to the next
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level so it was basically made it to an
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it was the ultimate may I made it here
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to an announcement that is reading from
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a powerpoint demonstration of God and a
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powerpoint demonstration of how to how
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to have be the most basic and and then
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it was just like to repeat this press
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one to go back to the menu and so at
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that point all you can do is go operator
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operator operator 000 right and I
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normally do that with without even
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listening to the first thing but today I
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felt generous i was like i'm gonna
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follow this poetry although i'm going to
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go up into the highest branches of this
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tree where the view will be spectacular
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we're part of it i think about like when
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you're trying to write something long or
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when you're dealing with a big project
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I mean with me like for example trying
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to write that book a few years ago I was
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constantly torn between these two
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impulses there was the one impulse to
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just make make make new stuff which is I
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think the good impulse when you're
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drafting then there's the other impulse
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which is like yeah but you should also
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keep outlining and reviewing what you've
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done already not revising but like is
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this compulsion of like feeling like I
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have to make sure that this is going to
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make sense with what I've already done
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and I wonder if influential like that
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you take that model and spread across
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different business units and you have
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different people contributing different
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parts to the tree and there's not
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anybody who's project managing how
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sensible it is to hear something a given
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point and maybe it's not totally up to
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date you know what I mean yes I can see
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that really in a large even in a
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specially medium-sized corporation i
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would say we wouldn't have dedicated
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resources I can I could see that
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well I know it's like I think it's
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analogous to the way that we misuse the
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police in the sense that what if we have
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a problem in our town and you don't know
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how to solve it you send the police
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right even though the police are not
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problem solvers really they're not
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that's not the problem solving unit of
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the city have thought about that that's
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interesting that's interesting in like
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the police are really useful in certain
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ways but they are not the like we did
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they're not the psychology team to go
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out to figure out what somebody's why
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somebody's yelling right and in in
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it seems like the engineers are the
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people that they send to solve a lot of
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problems right send the engineers and
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the engineers are you know they're
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they're like the police they're very
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good at at doing the thing that they do
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but they are you know they're not the
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ones that you send in to do just to
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check to see if a normal person can
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figure out your project if a normal
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person who isn't who has no inside
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knowledge is going to show up at the
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look for the doorbell yeah and you know
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in the engineers like well there isn't a
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doorbell clearly what you need to do at
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that point is to you know retina scan or
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whatever it's like the persons looking
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for the doorbell can't find it right and
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that you know and that disconnect where
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businesses don't you know and like every
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should hire a squad of normals right
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there should be like team normal wear
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those people are constantly kept totally
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in the dark about your about the product
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your business makes everything and how
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it's made and how it's made and then but
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they are the like they are the final the
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final test and it's not like testers
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they actually belong to their they are
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they're part of your business and you
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just unleash your stuff on them write
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something a little bit
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unbuttons the wrong word but it's
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somebody who's there specifically to
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find what's broken about what you're
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I'm not just a tester but somebody in
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that case and I'm actually that someone
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like testing now that I hear those words
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but it's somebody's job it is to
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advocate for the the busy and confused
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yeah right now if you're I guess what
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you have to do is you have to imagine
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and this is the thing that that happens
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so infrequently in the way that we
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design things it's like imagine the
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person not just your imagine the user
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right but like imagine a user who has no
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who doesn't even know they want to use
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your product who doesn't who you know
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imagine the user who's showing up there
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with like a crying baby whose doesn't
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exactly what i was thinking you know
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it's exact was just thinking of having
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to hold a crying baby and use the phone
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with one hand right when you totally
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self-absorbed position to take but those
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are the times I felt most acutely this
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was never designed to work in this
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situation and this is when I really
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needed to work right but here's the
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thing here's one you ready for this
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never have any device this happens with
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bluetooth speakers have lots of never
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have any device in the world that makes
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a noise when you turn it off like a car
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should not make a noise when it's locked
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that was a baby and it's just
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unnecessary have a bluetooth speaker my
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shower that makes a blue when you shut
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I was never aware of how many things
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make a noise when you turn them off
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until I had a kid I was trying to get to
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sleep you can get a use case you think
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they're saying goodbye is that is that
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what the the concept is like well the
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one they turn it off we should we should
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set to give them one last salutation
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right i think it's probably part of a
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certain kind of customer service
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experience where like you know it used
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to be that felt like a sign of status
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that your car made a bloop you know only
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douchebags and rich kids had those
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at one time and so once that became now
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you were kinda like when you're you know
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for doesn't matter whatever like you
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feel like you're a big shot up the ramp
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yeah i'll answer Maryland especially
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with speakers though I think it's a
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confluence of two annoying things which
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is on the one hand like this my
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bluetooth speaker in the shower
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it's just speaker on a suction cup is
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water resistant water proof nominally
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but it's very very cheap was like nine
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dollars and I and like what you couldn't
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do with good interface you need to cover
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you need to do some house so for example
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there's a light that blinks the entire
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time that's on which makes me a little
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bit crazy and then it makes a blue one
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blue please turn on what we turn off
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that's how lets you know right yeah I i
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was sort of side question yes speaker
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with a suction cup on it
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have you ever sitting in the bath
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suction-cupped the speaker to your self
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now you know when it's a great question
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if i were a little younger I think that
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would probably one of the first or
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second things like I did not like
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selection couple things to myself you
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know I'm gonna like turn it up and see
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like our fields all right it would be
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like yeah you really going to be a
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haptic right you really feel the music
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you feelin not happen but you feel the
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music in your head now like your
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your-your-your there in the shower
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let's see being kind of high-end trying
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that Alex suction cup the speaker to
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yourself and then you're like while
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you're waiting on hold pretty you know I
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can I I imagined that I would ultimately
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have to try that
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yeah you know the other thing is I I
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like what you said though about the
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police being like the engineers being
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mmm i think there's there's a lot in
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common there but i think there's another
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two different poor impulses with the
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police maybe for me I kind of feel like
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they become my surrogate dad were like
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if I felt like I've done everything I
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can to ask control threaten and it still
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doesn't work out or I'm annoyed you know
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I tried to do this anymore but you end
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up calling the police today coming to
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take care of this thing like you you
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should you're gonna you go to the cold
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police you're making the noise
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yeah in with engineers i have a feeling
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the impulse is more practical of like
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well these nerves are going to have to
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be the ones who you know do this anyway
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let's just give it straight to them
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you know and I'm nothing against you
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know engineering it's like it's it's
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such a misunderstood and difficult job
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but you know it's it's likely say you
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know don't don't put the guy who claims
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that cleans up after the elephants in
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charge of who's allowed to be in the
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parade because he's going to have a very
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specific point of view but I I feel like
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I feel like this there are there are
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products and there are things that we
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interact with that are that are purely
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for pleasure right that we you know like
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a guitar for instance you very seldom
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sit down pick up a guitar and go oh god
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I hate this guitar i just have to deal
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with it right now right and there are
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lots of things in our world
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oh yeah that are in that category just
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like I I just can't wait to get alone
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with this thing but most of the products
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that we are being sold now and most of
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the the way design works now the
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presumption of everybody a presumption
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of the people making the thing are like
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okay are you ready to sit down with your
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epson eps XP 400s and really get into
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this experience of working with this you
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know we're going to give you like a
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screen that has a sunset on it it's
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going to say hi to you right you're
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going it's going to give you my
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microwave microwave when it goes off it
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scrolls and leds enjoy your meal haha
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right and so insulting i don't want to
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been applying its greeting me and start
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your day I Antonio Berlin come back i'm
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talking to you you know and this this
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concept of like I mean ninety percent of
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the things that I interact within the
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day I but my met my attitude about it is
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I don't really want to be here
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interacting with you I just have to get
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through this process please can you just
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make it as simple as absolutely and so
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you walk up to the ATM and they're like
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hi would you like to hang out with me
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the ATM machine let's let's chat about
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you know it's just like up yours
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up yours bank up yours machine up yours
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programmer up yours everybody just give
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me the like basic and and that and that
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the idea that the the nicest thing that
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these people could do
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who are designing these things is
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designed it so that you so that is
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invisible and then it does not assert
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itself right because you are standing
[TS]
◼
►
there not only with the crying baby but
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere else to be
[TS]
◼
►
you don't nobody goes to the ATM machine
[TS]
◼
►
like I can't you know what later on
[TS]
◼
►
today after i'm done with my work and I
[TS]
◼
►
really need the money but I just enjoy
[TS]
◼
►
yeah i'm gonna change into something
[TS]
◼
►
comfortable and just go down and fucking
[TS]
◼
►
chat with me taking fucking language and
[TS]
◼
►
just hang out man i'm gonna i'm gonna
[TS]
◼
►
call up some phone trees pick a language
[TS]
◼
►
maybe i'll pick it maybe i'll pick in
[TS]
◼
►
the language that isn't mine and just
[TS]
◼
►
listen to what it says in a different
[TS]
◼
►
language and and I see that so I mean
[TS]
◼
►
like every copier I've bought in the
[TS]
◼
►
last however long you know which is a
[TS]
◼
►
lot more copies than I ever should have
[TS]
◼
►
had to Bonnie photocopiers photocopier
[TS]
◼
►
zat Arras multifunction printers that's
[TS]
◼
►
right there are also yes scanners and
[TS]
◼
►
also you know can do a thousand other
[TS]
◼
►
things and every one of them is just is
[TS]
◼
►
just like at a loss leader pyramid
[TS]
◼
►
scheme to sell overpriced cartridges
[TS]
◼
►
right right that our thing that would
[TS]
◼
►
work just like somebody was like what if
[TS]
◼
►
we made ink out of bb's and each one of
[TS]
◼
►
those babies cost a dollar
[TS]
◼
►
like that's a for that is a visit that
[TS]
◼
►
sounds like apples cloud right that
[TS]
◼
►
sounds like a thing that we can just
[TS]
◼
►
charge people it's just it's the
[TS]
◼
►
ultimate it's the ultimate Remora the
[TS]
◼
►
ultimate steal that Celia and so I you
[TS]
◼
►
know how many printers are bought and i
[TS]
◼
►
think half the printers i bought our
[TS]
◼
►
because the their predecessor i threw
[TS]
◼
►
out a window and every one of these are
[TS]
◼
►
blind and then we've got it can can look
[TS]
◼
►
at work with cloud-based printing which
[TS]
◼
►
need some help but just even going in to
[TS]
◼
►
enter the Wi-Fi password have a pretty
[TS]
◼
►
good Wi-Fi password about you doing in
[TS]
◼
►
and entering that using an up and down
[TS]
◼
►
arrow to choose a letter capital no
[TS]
◼
►
lower case number character
[TS]
◼
►
I mean seriously and then of course does
[TS]
◼
►
the whole likes high security thing
[TS]
◼
►
where it doesn't you see what you've
[TS]
◼
►
already typed in uh huh so it's one of
[TS]
◼
►
those is one of those times where like
[TS]
◼
►
again it's the reality is butting up
[TS]
◼
►
against the best practices everybody
[TS]
◼
►
should be using a better password but it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't take that many times of having
[TS]
◼
►
to do that before you go you know I'm
[TS]
◼
►
changing my netflix password to pencil
[TS]
◼
►
every day well wait a minute what if
[TS]
◼
►
somebody's looking over your shoulder
[TS]
◼
►
when you put your password in your
[TS]
◼
►
printer they can be off happening here
[TS]
◼
►
is a choice of identity theft maybe
[TS]
◼
►
print shit all day while you're at work
[TS]
◼
►
you come home your whole house is full
[TS]
◼
►
of like I did aliens and this scan this
[TS]
◼
►
friends this episode of Roderick on the
[TS]
◼
►
line is sponsored by slack the messaging
[TS]
◼
►
app for teens i'm told that it sounds
[TS]
◼
►
like I'm saying teens but this is the
[TS]
◼
►
messaging app for teams although I have
[TS]
◼
►
to imagine that teens are probably
[TS]
◼
►
welcome as well in any case slack
[TS]
◼
►
consolidates all your work
[TS]
◼
►
communications into one place makes them
[TS]
◼
►
instantly searchable and available on
[TS]
◼
►
any device guys this is a very
[TS]
◼
►
compelling new thought technology slack
[TS]
◼
►
easily integrates with all the tools and
[TS]
◼
►
services you already use all the great
[TS]
◼
►
tools stuff like Google Drive and
[TS]
◼
►
hangouts dropbox github stripe you name
[TS]
◼
►
so that means you have just this one
[TS]
◼
►
beautiful place to go to keep up with
[TS]
◼
►
everything that's happening on your team
[TS]
◼
►
what's great is that slack also makes
[TS]
◼
►
all your stuff searchable so every
[TS]
◼
►
discussion every decision and document
[TS]
◼
►
is archived index and available to a
[TS]
◼
►
single search box
[TS]
◼
►
no more digging through piles of old
[TS]
◼
►
Braille Playboy's trying to find the
[TS]
◼
►
Henderson report it's all just right
[TS]
◼
►
slack is used by over 500,000 people
[TS]
◼
►
more than 60,000 teams every day that
[TS]
◼
►
includes companies like the new york
[TS]
◼
►
times perhaps you've heard of them
[TS]
◼
►
ebay adobe and even the icecube neutrino
[TS]
◼
►
Observatory who use slack all the way
[TS]
◼
►
down at the South Pole
[TS]
◼
►
that's the pole where the penguins live
[TS]
◼
►
here's the really cool part black is
[TS]
◼
►
free to use for as long as you want and
[TS]
◼
►
with as many users as you want
[TS]
◼
►
it's super easy to get started using
[TS]
◼
►
select today by visiting slack dot-com /
[TS]
◼
►
supertrain here's the crazy part when
[TS]
◼
►
you sign up for your free account from
[TS]
◼
►
that page you'll also get one hundred
[TS]
◼
►
dollars in credit to use if you ever
[TS]
◼
►
decide to upgrade to the mini fantastic
[TS]
◼
►
features of slacks paid plans point is
[TS]
◼
►
you need to get on this by signing up at
[TS]
◼
►
slac dot-com / supertrain many thanks to
[TS]
◼
►
slack the messaging app for teams for
[TS]
◼
►
taking some of the pain out of staying
[TS]
◼
►
connected and for their wonderful
[TS]
◼
►
support of rather cuddle
[TS]
◼
►
and screw you world uh it's it's so true
[TS]
◼
►
you know it's funny I think about like
[TS]
◼
►
the kind of jobs i can pass and refer to
[TS]
◼
►
certain jobs I've had as someone in
[TS]
◼
►
accurately but I felt like an
[TS]
◼
►
information janitor where nobody notices
[TS]
◼
►
what I do until the toilets backup
[TS]
◼
►
you know the kind of job I've always
[TS]
◼
►
been one of the one hand never wanted to
[TS]
◼
►
have the kind of job where people only
[TS]
◼
►
notice what you do when it doesn't go
[TS]
◼
►
flawlessly that would be a terrible
[TS]
◼
►
thing the other thing is I've never
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to have one of those kinds of
[TS]
◼
►
jobs where the success of the
[TS]
◼
►
interaction is mostly based on how
[TS]
◼
►
little they had to interact with you so
[TS]
◼
►
you think about checking into a hotel
[TS]
◼
►
late at night you think about you know
[TS]
◼
►
obviously rental car because you know
[TS]
◼
►
the rental cars like the worst because
[TS]
◼
►
at that point you're like uh okay i'm
[TS]
◼
►
finally done with all these flights and
[TS]
◼
►
I'm not into the hotel yet now i gotta
[TS]
◼
►
get a rental car and like every like
[TS]
◼
►
picosecond that goes by that you're
[TS]
◼
►
having to deal with that person and
[TS]
◼
►
they're asking what the gps and in and
[TS]
◼
►
dudn't know I just you know I mean it's
[TS]
◼
►
like yeah that's the problem is though
[TS]
◼
►
there with a device that's kind of what
[TS]
◼
►
you really want you wanna be able to
[TS]
◼
►
cover people's needs with an ATM but you
[TS]
◼
►
know you don't want to turn into the I
[TS]
◼
►
mean I again but we're going to guess
[TS]
◼
►
what I'm saying is we're going to
[TS]
◼
►
evaluate that interaction based on how
[TS]
◼
►
little time it took its kind of how I
[TS]
◼
►
feel about going out to eat I just want
[TS]
◼
►
somebody is extremely efficient I don't
[TS]
◼
►
want to talk about my day
[TS]
◼
►
hi guys how y'all doing tonight how we
[TS]
◼
►
deal and i'm skipping mind if I don't
[TS]
◼
►
just settle in here to reminisce with
[TS]
◼
►
you say lots of our appies via the great
[TS]
◼
►
thing about the rental car business at
[TS]
◼
►
airports is that you know they know that
[TS]
◼
►
you're exhausted they know that you just
[TS]
◼
►
want to get out of there and that's why
[TS]
◼
►
they take that opportunity to upsell u14
[TS]
◼
►
time it's all that's the thing is their
[TS]
◼
►
margins are so thin right down and it's
[TS]
◼
►
gonna be all about all that other crap
[TS]
◼
►
in the collision and explaining their
[TS]
◼
►
the other just counting on you going
[TS]
◼
►
like fine fine fine whatever whatever
[TS]
◼
►
whatever like give it to me but what's
[TS]
◼
►
amazing is that my interacting with my
[TS]
◼
►
iphone as much as I do how much the
[TS]
◼
►
business model of the internet right now
[TS]
◼
►
is based on that same kind of coercion
[TS]
◼
►
like oh are you really excited to watch
[TS]
◼
►
this this little YouTube video well why
[TS]
◼
►
don't we take 15 seconds and talk about
[TS]
◼
►
plans for the the best one is I I
[TS]
◼
►
figured out like my latest attack which
[TS]
◼
►
is akin to my hack of never upgrading my
[TS]
◼
►
operating system huh
[TS]
◼
►
my latest attack is i went in and i
[TS]
◼
►
turned off cellular data uh in my iphone
[TS]
◼
►
ok interesting that is a life hack I
[TS]
◼
►
don't want my games interacting with the
[TS]
◼
►
internet and what I discovered is I
[TS]
◼
►
turned off cellular data for my games
[TS]
◼
►
and that prohibits the games from
[TS]
◼
►
downloading video advertisements which
[TS]
◼
►
often are the thing that Jam my phone up
[TS]
◼
►
the most absolutely but Apple has made
[TS]
◼
►
sure that every time I turn on something
[TS]
◼
►
that has cellular data disabled it pops
[TS]
◼
►
up a screen that says cellular data is
[TS]
◼
►
disabled for this and it won't let me do
[TS]
◼
►
anything else right until I close that
[TS]
◼
►
screen and so I never thought of that
[TS]
◼
►
because the average the the revenue is
[TS]
◼
►
going to come from advertising right so
[TS]
◼
►
never thought of that
[TS]
◼
►
so they are you know they're doing they
[TS]
◼
►
they allow it but they make sure to
[TS]
◼
►
punish you each time by saying like this
[TS]
◼
►
thing that you know you've done where we
[TS]
◼
►
want you to know that you've done it you
[TS]
◼
►
think that's Apple i mean i think the
[TS]
◼
►
Apple functionality of telling you you
[TS]
◼
►
can't do something because you shut that
[TS]
◼
►
off is a good idea
[TS]
◼
►
reminding you that you're in airplane
[TS]
◼
►
mode or something I mean for that I
[TS]
◼
►
thought would look more to the
[TS]
◼
►
developers who are putting ads in there
[TS]
◼
►
is the way to sustain that I'm not sure
[TS]
◼
►
because you know like sometimes I will
[TS]
◼
►
make the mistake out i'll turn off
[TS]
◼
►
location services in something because i
[TS]
◼
►
don't want my photos tagged million
[TS]
◼
►
shares location but then and i'm not
[TS]
◼
►
even sure if that works that may just be
[TS]
◼
►
a total like problem but i do what i can
[TS]
◼
►
to not have my photos tagged
[TS]
◼
►
particularly you know what I'm lying in
[TS]
◼
►
bed at night sending naked texts out to
[TS]
◼
►
friends in Europe when you break into
[TS]
◼
►
the White House you know I don't want
[TS]
◼
►
like that tagged exactly what up
[TS]
◼
►
but then i'll click on the map program
[TS]
◼
►
now why would I be doing that right if I
[TS]
◼
►
didn't want right to know if I didn't
[TS]
◼
►
want the map to like serve me here by
[TS]
◼
►
knowing where i am and you know and the
[TS]
◼
►
idea that at that point the thing pops
[TS]
◼
►
up and says you need to you what you
[TS]
◼
►
can't turn that on from here you need to
[TS]
◼
►
now go back to your settings and enable
[TS]
◼
►
location services and then come back
[TS]
◼
►
here right and you're standing on a
[TS]
◼
►
street corner and pouring down raining
[TS]
◼
►
right exactly and then after exactly the
[TS]
◼
►
scenario we're talking about and it's
[TS]
◼
►
just like a the that somebody hasn't
[TS]
◼
►
thought that through that if you click
[TS]
◼
►
on map like let's just assume that
[TS]
◼
►
location services and it is enabled like
[TS]
◼
►
uh the night that the point zero one
[TS]
◼
►
percent of the time that I go on into
[TS]
◼
►
maps and just want to see like where's
[TS]
◼
►
the 17th a tourism mole in Paris who you
[TS]
◼
►
know i would like to see that on in my
[TS]
◼
►
map program rather than googling it its
[TS]
◼
►
that's negligible compared to the number
[TS]
◼
►
of times when I'm in a hurry and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
like oh where is that place you know I'm
[TS]
◼
►
within to love using it really as a
[TS]
◼
►
traditional atlas in that instance i'm
[TS]
◼
►
using it look we're a thing is that
[TS]
◼
►
regard to where you are right now
[TS]
◼
►
I do that sometimes like chef the Faroe
[TS]
◼
►
Islands I wonder how many natural water
[TS]
◼
►
sources they're all in the parallel i
[TS]
◼
►
wonder if i can see them from my map
[TS]
◼
►
program it'll be able to be you know
[TS]
◼
►
there's a lot of i mean i don't i don't
[TS]
◼
►
flip through atlases anymore like I once
[TS]
◼
►
did my whole life and so all i have is
[TS]
◼
►
this little black box that comes to bed
[TS]
◼
►
with me every night and I just get to
[TS]
◼
►
flip through it it may require updating
[TS]
◼
►
but there is in iOS 8 just for what it's
[TS]
◼
►
worth Chancellor key so we let me if I
[TS]
◼
►
don't see something out there is
[TS]
◼
►
actually way to go on to privacy and
[TS]
◼
►
then location services and it's kinda
[TS]
◼
►
you always have the ability to turn the
[TS]
◼
►
location to never and then depending on
[TS]
◼
►
the app usually your other choice is use
[TS]
◼
►
location while i'm using it or use it
[TS]
◼
►
all the time so that's kinda cool but
[TS]
◼
►
that was just another is granularity to
[TS]
◼
►
shutting it off if you want just never I
[TS]
◼
►
mean I have most of mindset to never
[TS]
◼
►
because I'm like you know why
[TS]
◼
►
is this drawing program that my kid uses
[TS]
◼
►
want that one of my location mnoi just
[TS]
◼
►
to see how many you can do this with its
[TS]
◼
►
kind of creepy always never those are my
[TS]
◼
►
well also while using so if you go in
[TS]
◼
►
this case I got a chrome the browser and
[TS]
◼
►
it says the location access never or
[TS]
◼
►
just while using the app so that that's
[TS]
◼
►
an upgrade because right now on when I
[TS]
◼
►
go to privacy I just have always know
[TS]
◼
►
while using the app hello some of them
[TS]
◼
►
have that some of them do
[TS]
◼
►
yeah so that should help a little bit
[TS]
◼
►
thank you John siracusa for your
[TS]
◼
►
constant yelling at merlin homicide
[TS]
◼
►
I satisfied with your care and this in
[TS]
◼
►
this instance you have forced Merlin to
[TS]
◼
►
do a thing then and as you have Merlin
[TS]
◼
►
has showed dinosaur John know but listen
[TS]
◼
►
i want to i want to also commiserate
[TS]
◼
►
because you know as I don't think it's
[TS]
◼
►
transparently obvious to people what
[TS]
◼
►
kinds of things you should flip on for
[TS]
◼
►
wear and it does have an impact on your
[TS]
◼
►
battery life and on your to some extent
[TS]
◼
►
your privacy right well I'm like it look
[TS]
◼
►
at any any service you sign up for the
[TS]
◼
►
the first thing i do when i set up for
[TS]
◼
►
anything goes straight to the settings
[TS]
◼
►
and straight to profile where I am
[TS]
◼
►
increasingly not even surprised anymore
[TS]
◼
►
when it's saying make everything public
[TS]
◼
►
you know you just gotta go in there and
[TS]
◼
►
go it was just you know you I don't
[TS]
◼
►
really want my want all my information I
[TS]
◼
►
don't wanna be accessible i don't want
[TS]
◼
►
the email i'm saying is really is buyer
[TS]
◼
►
beware at this point where you've got to
[TS]
◼
►
go in and make sure that your ducks in a
[TS]
◼
►
row with those things
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah it is buyer beware well I'm
[TS]
◼
►
the thing is you talk about battery life
[TS]
◼
►
yeah my it's my psychic better little
[TS]
◼
►
that is always always always always
[TS]
◼
►
agents it's always on three percent and
[TS]
◼
►
I'm afraid that that that it's gonna
[TS]
◼
►
shut off its I'm afraid that my battery
[TS]
◼
►
life is gonna shut me down at fifteen
[TS]
◼
►
percent which are used to do before i
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and I don't want to you know
[TS]
◼
►
actually lately I've had a surprising
[TS]
◼
►
amount of energy and it's because I'm
[TS]
◼
►
I'm undergoing a forced program of
[TS]
◼
►
energy i can't wait to hear about this
[TS]
◼
►
well you know what i mean i got it's
[TS]
◼
►
just like okay you you have to show up
[TS]
◼
►
yeah when you have stuff to do you just
[TS]
◼
►
have to have you you find reservoirs of
[TS]
◼
►
energy that that prior would have seemed
[TS]
◼
►
inaccessible yeah i'm and and and it's
[TS]
◼
►
always that feeling you know that
[TS]
◼
►
feeling when you're like crusting a
[TS]
◼
►
mountain range or above the tree line
[TS]
◼
►
and you know over that Ridge there's a
[TS]
◼
►
little lake and you just got to get
[TS]
◼
►
there but you're really tired you have
[TS]
◼
►
to find that energy to you know to push
[TS]
◼
►
up / and then it's downhill to the
[TS]
◼
►
little lake it helps to know there's
[TS]
◼
►
something there though
[TS]
◼
►
yeah right we're trying to use every
[TS]
◼
►
part of the time Buffalo it helps a lot
[TS]
◼
►
to know that that
[TS]
◼
►
oh I just don't need to get through the
[TS]
◼
►
rest of my life I need to get through
[TS]
◼
►
you know what I mean yeah right and that
[TS]
◼
►
and so often the problem of living a
[TS]
◼
►
life like mine was formerly that it was
[TS]
◼
►
always a false horizon you know always a
[TS]
◼
►
false summit like you're coming up the
[TS]
◼
►
trail and you're like I can see light
[TS]
◼
►
through the trees i'm at the summit and
[TS]
◼
►
you get when you get to that use you
[TS]
◼
►
crest that Ridge and you're like oh it's
[TS]
◼
►
just a ridge i'm not at the summit like
[TS]
◼
►
then you see watch the mountain go up
[TS]
◼
►
and played apples tell me to go here on
[TS]
◼
►
top of the windmill this isn't my are
[TS]
◼
►
not having a meeting here I'm Chamber of
[TS]
◼
►
Commerce is tapping their feet are so
[TS]
◼
►
impressive to hear that was one of the
[TS]
◼
►
things I was most kind of quietly
[TS]
◼
►
concerned about was like what a huge
[TS]
◼
►
I mean that's it sounds like i'm calling
[TS]
◼
►
you lazy which is not what I mean to be
[TS]
◼
►
saying which is that knowing that you
[TS]
◼
►
let's put it that way you you tell you
[TS]
◼
►
in my experience given the options you
[TS]
◼
►
tend to prefer to do a lot of your stuff
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it's a lifestyle well it's
[TS]
◼
►
interesting how it's
[TS]
◼
►
just like when you change the job and
[TS]
◼
►
you're doing something else and then
[TS]
◼
►
that becomes the new thing that you're
[TS]
◼
►
doing it was always hard for me to get
[TS]
◼
►
up in the morning but now I have things
[TS]
◼
►
to do so i'm getting up in the morning
[TS]
◼
►
and then you settle into a thing where
[TS]
◼
►
it's like oh it's no harder for me to
[TS]
◼
►
get up in the morning then it is anybody
[TS]
◼
►
it's just that the problem isn't getting
[TS]
◼
►
up in the morning the problem is it's
[TS]
◼
►
always hard to get up when the only
[TS]
◼
►
thing motivating you to do your work is
[TS]
◼
►
you all I know that that's talk about
[TS]
◼
►
going up the ridge you get there and
[TS]
◼
►
you're like his there's nothing here
[TS]
◼
►
this is not what I I didn't do these
[TS]
◼
►
10,000 other things in order to be here
[TS]
◼
►
and like you know the right is not there
[TS]
◼
►
the the paintings not there whatever it
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah I i totally agree the thing i
[TS]
◼
►
feel like i am going through like my
[TS]
◼
►
wife is working more she's changed jobs
[TS]
◼
►
and is working a lot more just great and
[TS]
◼
►
I'm very happy to and really enjoy my
[TS]
◼
►
time with the kids so it is more like
[TS]
◼
►
especially in the afternoons you know it
[TS]
◼
►
is it's like I maybe like you I got used
[TS]
◼
►
to having a certain number of
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but you know there would be a few
[TS]
◼
►
constraints in the day I think for me
[TS]
◼
►
work is challenging especially somebody
[TS]
◼
►
who loves to sleep is to have the
[TS]
◼
►
constraint of their stuff that needs to
[TS]
◼
►
happen up to a certain point at night
[TS]
◼
►
especially if you want to have a social
[TS]
◼
►
life or whatever but you know even just
[TS]
◼
►
like getting the the bath has to happen
[TS]
◼
►
every night whether we feel like it or
[TS]
◼
►
not like you know we can only tolerate
[TS]
◼
►
the kitchen being dirty for so long you
[TS]
◼
►
don't mean you want to be an animal so
[TS]
◼
►
on the one hand there's the stuff that
[TS]
◼
►
has to happen tonight and it is the
[TS]
◼
►
stuff that really needs to happen at a
[TS]
◼
►
certain point in the morning extremely
[TS]
◼
►
what rare that my kid wakes up later
[TS]
◼
►
than six so that problem is though then
[TS]
◼
►
like the funeral saying you feel that in
[TS]
◼
►
between and then you get look up on the
[TS]
◼
►
complaining I'm really actually not i
[TS]
◼
►
got I just invented a new phrase i call
[TS]
◼
►
the grumble brag with which is when you
[TS]
◼
►
are when you claim that you're not
[TS]
◼
►
complaining about something while you're
[TS]
◼
►
totally complaining about it haha but
[TS]
◼
►
anyway when you get enough of those
[TS]
◼
►
little waystations it's why it's so hard
[TS]
◼
►
to have multiple jobs right yeah it
[TS]
◼
►
becomes so much overhead and so much
[TS]
◼
►
like stress about all the little
[TS]
◼
►
checkpoint you have to get to in this
[TS]
◼
►
little rally do you let me ask you a
[TS]
◼
►
question because i was thinking about
[TS]
◼
►
the other day just as i was driving down
[TS]
◼
►
the street I was like Merlin's book
[TS]
◼
►
yeah Merlin's book was a thing that I
[TS]
◼
►
thought about a lot while you were
[TS]
◼
►
making it and then you know thought
[TS]
◼
►
about it a lot while you were not making
[TS]
◼
►
his deciding not to make it and like do
[TS]
◼
►
you ever fall prey to thinking about
[TS]
◼
►
what is probably quite a pile of writing
[TS]
◼
►
that you did write and think like that's
[TS]
◼
►
something I'm gonna repurpose for
[TS]
◼
►
something or that's something I'm
[TS]
◼
►
eventually gonna do something else with
[TS]
◼
►
or guided every just happy just buried
[TS]
◼
►
it to be honest it is in many ways
[TS]
◼
►
incredibly painful in a number of ways
[TS]
◼
►
it's still still it's difficult to talk
[TS]
◼
►
about because on the one hand it's
[TS]
◼
►
painful that this was something i was
[TS]
◼
►
very not just passionate about but felt
[TS]
◼
►
really uniquely capable of doing
[TS]
◼
►
I had a lot of thoughts I had no there's
[TS]
◼
►
no dearth of thoughts in my head about
[TS]
◼
►
what to what to do and I had a lot to
[TS]
◼
►
say I produced a lot of words i didn't
[TS]
◼
►
love that many of the words and i'm
[TS]
◼
►
actually going to settle this before but
[TS]
◼
►
I'm going somewhere with this way the
[TS]
◼
►
the part that makes it looks super
[TS]
◼
►
painful though it was we get to get into
[TS]
◼
►
the sunk cost fallacy stuff where I
[TS]
◼
►
start thinking about what that did in my
[TS]
◼
►
family for so long like for so long my
[TS]
◼
►
wife was just unbelievably supportive
[TS]
◼
►
and said yes to anything I ask for until
[TS]
◼
►
I started to really like honestly abused
[TS]
◼
►
it but like there were times like how
[TS]
◼
►
long does it take me to learn i'm not
[TS]
◼
►
going to write anything good and or
[TS]
◼
►
substantial after seven o'clock at night
[TS]
◼
►
and yes i would happen because i'm so
[TS]
◼
►
stressed out about that i would happily
[TS]
◼
►
leave her with all of the household
[TS]
◼
►
duties while I go out and sit there and
[TS]
◼
►
feel terrible about myself that's all
[TS]
◼
►
that's that was all very difficult i
[TS]
◼
►
still feel em failures too strong of war
[TS]
◼
►
but i certainly feel like a success and
[TS]
◼
►
how that whole thing went the other big
[TS]
◼
►
part of this which you didn't ask about
[TS]
◼
►
this but the other big part of this is
[TS]
◼
►
just how much the landscape has changed
[TS]
◼
►
which we've talked about this i mean is
[TS]
◼
►
true for musicians but it's really true
[TS]
◼
►
for all kinds of what will generally
[TS]
◼
►
call content creators the evenin the
[TS]
◼
►
last year that's changed let alone the
[TS]
◼
►
last five years so I mean on the one
[TS]
◼
►
hand i had a lot of stuff you know
[TS]
◼
►
probably close to a hundred thousand
[TS]
◼
►
words of words i started out with 40,000
[TS]
◼
►
website that need to be added a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
words but I never really got it to be
[TS]
◼
►
the thing i wanted and it's not even the
[TS]
◼
►
thing as always feeling this pressure to
[TS]
◼
►
make it a kind of about email even
[TS]
◼
►
though it didn't have to be an email
[TS]
◼
►
more and more that felt like such a
[TS]
◼
►
millstone to me so it's not like i have
[TS]
◼
►
that much I want to do with that the
[TS]
◼
►
ideas in there are still very powerful
[TS]
◼
►
and very lively to me just now that
[TS]
◼
►
comes out in podcast the thing the thing
[TS]
◼
►
though ultimately makes it something I'm
[TS]
◼
►
not trying to repurpose or really
[TS]
◼
►
explore I don't know I'm I would not
[TS]
◼
►
rule out writing a book at some point
[TS]
◼
►
but I writing anything right now is a
[TS]
◼
►
really tough racket mean it's a very
[TS]
◼
►
tough racket and i think that the
[TS]
◼
►
industry has changed business has
[TS]
◼
►
changed and i think the audience has
[TS]
◼
►
changed so honestly the kinds of things
[TS]
◼
►
that people will pay not that much money
[TS]
◼
►
for our things I don't necessarily want
[TS]
◼
►
to write I don't want to write listicles
[TS]
◼
►
i don't i don't want to produce dozens
[TS]
◼
►
of kindle books you know and it's not
[TS]
◼
►
what it's really if this was true in
[TS]
◼
►
2009 but it's really true now that it
[TS]
◼
►
and something Hodgins said when he was
[TS]
◼
►
saying that this is a good idea to do
[TS]
◼
►
and he was right
[TS]
◼
►
is that you know this is how you get
[TS]
◼
►
invited on the fresh air like this is
[TS]
◼
►
how this is your jumping off point to a
[TS]
◼
►
bigger thing right is like once you're
[TS]
◼
►
an author it changes everything
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but it wasn't even that I was
[TS]
◼
►
looking for it was just being able to
[TS]
◼
►
feel like the time and energy and stress
[TS]
◼
►
that i had invested in that I wanted to
[TS]
◼
►
turn into something really great and
[TS]
◼
►
timeless maybe that was too much
[TS]
◼
►
pressure to put on myself but it just
[TS]
◼
►
became too much and now today like you
[TS]
◼
►
know the whole inbox zero thing is like
[TS]
◼
►
really just the whole concept is so
[TS]
◼
►
annoying and then willful
[TS]
◼
►
misunderstanding of what i was trying to
[TS]
◼
►
say struggling to say yeah makes it a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit dead in the water to me but
[TS]
◼
►
honestly that the thing as I stand here
[TS]
◼
►
today yes i still feel terrible about
[TS]
◼
►
how that went for everybody involved but
[TS]
◼
►
it is also a thing of like you know all
[TS]
◼
►
things being equal if you're a reality
[TS]
◼
►
TV star having somebody ghostwriter book
[TS]
◼
►
is not a bad idea that somebody who
[TS]
◼
►
wants to sweat every single word of
[TS]
◼
►
something that will probably take nine
[TS]
◼
►
months to a year to do I guess that's
[TS]
◼
►
tough work for what you can expect in
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah that setup is that I answered
[TS]
◼
►
that fairly yeah you did
[TS]
◼
►
i mean i-i think about it a lot in a
[TS]
◼
►
different way now because I because I'm
[TS]
◼
►
I've been reflecting on the last period
[TS]
◼
►
of my life which is kind of you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's the wisdom of retrospect you look
[TS]
◼
►
back and say oh actually the last period
[TS]
◼
►
of my life which seemed to go by and I
[TS]
◼
►
blink actually was two distinct periods
[TS]
◼
►
and it was filled with these two sort of
[TS]
◼
►
different as you as you as you a portion
[TS]
◼
►
your life into eras yeah by looking back
[TS]
◼
►
and saying like which in my experience
[TS]
◼
►
takes several years to realize what area
[TS]
◼
►
yeah right and at some of that is
[TS]
◼
►
happening now and you know it a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
the projects that i have pursued over
[TS]
◼
►
the course of my whole adult life but in
[TS]
◼
►
particular the last handful of years and
[TS]
◼
►
they didn't come all the way to fruition
[TS]
◼
►
I and that there was a period of sitting
[TS]
◼
►
and being very excited about the about a
[TS]
◼
►
television show i was thinking of making
[TS]
◼
►
when I drove across America and went to
[TS]
◼
►
went to little depressed cities and
[TS]
◼
►
tried to identify it there arc from the
[TS]
◼
►
time that they were founded through the
[TS]
◼
►
time with cyber school and I totally see
[TS]
◼
►
you doing that than I ever describe this
[TS]
◼
►
to you I don't remember you describing
[TS]
◼
►
this but that actually is like that
[TS]
◼
►
sounds like forgive my saying that
[TS]
◼
►
sounds like the work you were made for
[TS]
◼
►
it really would be a really good at that
[TS]
◼
►
I was super excited about you know you
[TS]
◼
►
and and and he'd come in to put tipsy
[TS]
◼
►
and you'd say like here's what here's
[TS]
◼
►
what this land looked like when there
[TS]
◼
►
was an Indian settlement here and here's
[TS]
◼
►
why the here's why the settlers chose it
[TS]
◼
►
because it was a great place to build a
[TS]
◼
►
mill and here's what they milled and
[TS]
◼
►
then there was a period of great
[TS]
◼
►
prosperity when they figured out how to
[TS]
◼
►
out to you know what this this was the
[TS]
◼
►
place where they invented the tie tack
[TS]
◼
►
and the tie tack blew up and everybody
[TS]
◼
►
in the world needed one and this was tie
[TS]
◼
►
tack central and I sack boom you know
[TS]
◼
►
that's why they're all these beautiful
[TS]
◼
►
uh beaux-arts mansions up on this one
[TS]
◼
►
particular hill that they call founders
[TS]
◼
►
hill and and then world war one came and
[TS]
◼
►
you know and I could be telling this
[TS]
◼
►
story in both at both video but also
[TS]
◼
►
animation and and historical photographs
[TS]
◼
►
and you know just kind of do this
[TS]
◼
►
a rama of a place and then say then you
[TS]
◼
►
know us manufacturing decline looks like
[TS]
◼
►
cosmos but hyperlocal right right and I
[TS]
◼
►
mean that sounds really silly but he's
[TS]
◼
►
so great and look at second and Tyson no
[TS]
◼
►
deGrasse Tyson alright they're both so
[TS]
◼
►
great at taking these complex ideas and
[TS]
◼
►
making it something that not only kind
[TS]
◼
►
of kind of understand but you find
[TS]
◼
►
incredibly interesting by being very
[TS]
◼
►
specific but limited like you're not
[TS]
◼
►
going to cover everything like in that
[TS]
◼
►
your case you're not you're reading the
[TS]
◼
►
encyclopedia for pickup see it's more
[TS]
◼
►
like saying what you taught me that I'm
[TS]
◼
►
so grateful for is like you can just
[TS]
◼
►
look at the complexion of this land
[TS]
◼
►
look at where this water is look at
[TS]
◼
►
where that hill is look at how until
[TS]
◼
►
they had promised ridiculous you
[TS]
◼
►
couldn't live up on that part of the
[TS]
◼
►
hill that you know yeah y-you're I think
[TS]
◼
►
you're awfully good at that and and it's
[TS]
◼
►
exciting because once you once you open
[TS]
◼
►
your mind to that way of seeing you can
[TS]
◼
►
look at your own town that way it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't you know you wouldn't need a TV
[TS]
◼
►
show to do it you can like like you say
[TS]
◼
►
there's a reason that somebody planted
[TS]
◼
►
their their flag here and it's usually
[TS]
◼
►
because that was where the water was and
[TS]
◼
►
that was where the that's what was a
[TS]
◼
►
defensible position and the city grew
[TS]
◼
►
this way and that way you can tell where
[TS]
◼
►
it is like that hope that whole mission
[TS]
◼
►
i was on when I was on tour with Harvey
[TS]
◼
►
danger where every time every town on
[TS]
◼
►
the east coast and in the southeast in
[TS]
◼
►
particular we pull in the bus would stop
[TS]
◼
►
open up the door and the tour manager
[TS]
◼
►
would say well you guys got four hours
[TS]
◼
►
to kill until soundcheck and I would
[TS]
◼
►
walk up the bus am going to find the
[TS]
◼
►
Civil War graveyard gonna find the Civil
[TS]
◼
►
War graveyard that is in every one of
[TS]
◼
►
these towns and invariably where it was
[TS]
◼
►
would have been the outskirts of town in
[TS]
◼
►
1870 without having to look it up on a
[TS]
◼
►
city by City basis you can get a pretty
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you just know like okay I know I
[TS]
◼
►
know that it's not on the outskirts of
[TS]
◼
►
town now right because there's no
[TS]
◼
►
there's no town back east that has grown
[TS]
◼
►
none but it's but in a lot of cases it's
[TS]
◼
►
kind of in the decaying inner ring and
[TS]
◼
►
then you find the civil work graveyard
[TS]
◼
►
know that you kind of can see then that
[TS]
◼
►
everything built outside of it
[TS]
◼
►
was built after 1870 and everything
[TS]
◼
►
inside of it at least that was that
[TS]
◼
►
those were the city limits and Sons like
[TS]
◼
►
a little a little clue you can mostly
[TS]
◼
►
count on you right and and and it's
[TS]
◼
►
different in every place and you know
[TS]
◼
►
and the the Yankee graveyards are very
[TS]
◼
►
different than the southern ones and and
[TS]
◼
►
it was just a kind of little game to
[TS]
◼
►
play to pass the time that that got me
[TS]
◼
►
out and walking but I learned a lot by
[TS]
◼
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just kind of seeking this this little
[TS]
◼
►
depression in the ground anyway so that
[TS]
◼
►
was a that was a television show that I
[TS]
◼
►
that I really wanted to to make and got
[TS]
◼
►
excited about and then I was like well
[TS]
◼
►
of course we're going to buy a GMC RV to
[TS]
◼
►
drive around the country and and I
[TS]
◼
►
started talking to people and people in
[TS]
◼
►
television and they were like well
[TS]
◼
►
I was like well but hook is that it's
[TS]
◼
►
really a cool idea because we hook is
[TS]
◼
►
usually I think it has that case like
[TS]
◼
►
that because usually you're already
[TS]
◼
►
really famous in some other way right
[TS]
◼
►
now from TV or elsewhere you know I mean
[TS]
◼
►
like Anthony Bourdain's that his name is
[TS]
◼
►
a show like that that's like better than
[TS]
◼
►
it should be because he's a very
[TS]
◼
►
interesting guy would have gotten that
[TS]
◼
►
show if you weren't already like a
[TS]
◼
►
celebrity chef probably not and that's
[TS]
◼
►
the thing people kept saying to me like
[TS]
◼
►
well if you had written a book about the
[TS]
◼
►
American town and I'm like right i mean
[TS]
◼
►
this would kind of be the book i would
[TS]
◼
►
write about the American town this video
[TS]
◼
►
show and then people would like well i
[TS]
◼
►
mean if you were like it if you were
[TS]
◼
►
anthony kiedis I'm like well yeah I mean
[TS]
◼
►
if I was anthony kiedis I'd be happy in
[TS]
◼
►
a hot tub in vegas right i mean i
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't be doing this and he's a nice
[TS]
◼
►
guy but it's all public images someone
[TS]
◼
►
suffering only i love it too hey don't
[TS]
◼
►
forget about him there but but no shirt
[TS]
◼
►
now but then they were like well what if
[TS]
◼
►
you know what if what if you got to that
[TS]
◼
►
town and then you found the cool
[TS]
◼
►
artisanal uh like mustard factory that
[TS]
◼
►
the pic the mustache kids had built in
[TS]
◼
►
the old abandoned hotel I was like yeah
[TS]
◼
►
I'd be into that let's start sound like
[TS]
◼
►
a different show though who different
[TS]
◼
►
channel 2 100 now it's like if so then I
[TS]
◼
►
started following that stream and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
like what if I went to all the depressed
[TS]
◼
►
towns in America and found them the
[TS]
◼
►
artisanal must mustard factory that the
[TS]
◼
►
mustache kids had built I was like
[TS]
◼
►
that's an interesting show
[TS]
◼
►
it's not quite at em right in my
[TS]
◼
►
wheelhouse it's not yet i would i'm i'm
[TS]
◼
►
happy to interact with those people and
[TS]
◼
►
that would that would be a fun
[TS]
◼
►
exploratory like but a lot of those
[TS]
◼
►
towns don't have an artisanal must
[TS]
◼
►
mustard factory a lot of those towns
[TS]
◼
►
just have artisanal crank getting
[TS]
◼
►
manufactured and you know like the town
[TS]
◼
►
hasn't found its its footing yet and so
[TS]
◼
►
that the idea can be evolving and
[TS]
◼
►
eventually it just maybe this is
[TS]
◼
►
somebody actually talk to somebody about
[TS]
◼
►
I talk to a lot of people about it and
[TS]
◼
►
and the and the and eventually it was
[TS]
◼
►
like the consensus was the classic thing
[TS]
◼
►
that that that my good friend christine
[TS]
◼
►
connor said to me one time which is that
[TS]
◼
►
people come all the time and say I don't
[TS]
◼
►
watch TV but I've got a great idea for a
[TS]
◼
►
television show right and she said the
[TS]
◼
►
problem is that Pete the people who do
[TS]
◼
►
watch TV do not want people who don't
[TS]
◼
►
watch TV to make television for them and
[TS]
◼
►
us she's the reason she's in the corner
[TS]
◼
►
office that's really she's so smart
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and and so so what the program that
[TS]
◼
►
I wanted to make was exactly the type of
[TS]
◼
►
thing that would get me to watch TV but
[TS]
◼
►
that's not what you know that that isn't
[TS]
◼
►
half of the type of program that the
[TS]
◼
►
executives approve and there was no
[TS]
◼
►
component of my show where where there
[TS]
◼
►
was no sex tape component no one got
[TS]
◼
►
into a hair-pulling fight with anybody
[TS]
◼
►
else there wasn't you know I never said
[TS]
◼
►
BAM right and I didn't you know and I
[TS]
◼
►
never added a like bacon seasoning
[TS]
◼
►
vacancies and he's ready to it it
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't be expressly to make people cry
[TS]
◼
►
which has a certain appeal
[TS]
◼
►
not celebrity based strictly speaking
[TS]
◼
►
it's not it's not emotionally
[TS]
◼
►
base it's not about making you feel
[TS]
◼
►
better or more competent but there's so
[TS]
◼
►
many non fiction TV shows that are about
[TS]
◼
►
making you feel like you're a chef even
[TS]
◼
►
though you're mostly someone who watches
[TS]
◼
►
TV and I think what it what it is is
[TS]
◼
►
that PBS used to fund that kind of thing
[TS]
◼
►
and doesn't as years ago
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and there and all the things that
[TS]
◼
►
came into the televisions fear that
[TS]
◼
►
seemed like little PBS's like like the
[TS]
◼
►
discovery channel and the National
[TS]
◼
►
Geographic Channel and all these things
[TS]
◼
►
you know the smithsonian channel where
[TS]
◼
►
you're like oh my god it's a world of
[TS]
◼
►
public television and then every one of
[TS]
◼
►
those channels devolved away from like
[TS]
◼
►
National Geographic is just about cute
[TS]
◼
►
tiger babies decided but that should all
[TS]
◼
►
be so telling to think about Bravo and
[TS]
◼
►
ediscovery i'm not super familiar with
[TS]
◼
►
National Geographic that was kind of
[TS]
◼
►
after my time we take any of those
[TS]
◼
►
things they all started out with the
[TS]
◼
►
aspiration of being a i think i would
[TS]
◼
►
suggest that but I mean with the
[TS]
◼
►
aspiration of having sort of a
[TS]
◼
►
high-minded calling like any had some
[TS]
◼
►
really nerdy they would show opera on oh
[TS]
◼
►
Marisnick off right exactly it's the
[TS]
◼
►
arts and entertainment and ditto ditto
[TS]
◼
►
for bravo and you know there was a time
[TS]
◼
►
before the advent of you know shark week
[TS]
◼
►
when you could really see I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
and I'm not gonna let grumbling what I'm
[TS]
◼
►
saying is like once again let's just say
[TS]
◼
►
that the market has changed i found
[TS]
◼
►
something that was more palatable and
[TS]
◼
►
profitable that guy that announcer for
[TS]
◼
►
Bravo that's just like all the Bravo the
[TS]
◼
►
top 10 greatest falls like I remember
[TS]
◼
►
watching this channel where it was like
[TS]
◼
►
masterpiece theater
[TS]
◼
►
uh-huh and it now it's just like on
[TS]
◼
►
bravo we're going to go into your closet
[TS]
◼
►
and find all the dirtiest shit we can
[TS]
◼
►
find our orders you like to cook
[TS]
◼
►
shirtless on motorcycles but so so but
[TS]
◼
►
but that the time i spent thinking about
[TS]
◼
►
that television show and plotting it out
[TS]
◼
►
and imagining it and Imagineering it
[TS]
◼
►
let's be honest and the engineer and
[TS]
◼
►
engine even and then really trying to
[TS]
◼
►
think who the market was who I could who
[TS]
◼
►
would how much it would cost to produce
[TS]
◼
►
those episodes and whether or not i
[TS]
◼
►
could sell fund those are internet fund
[TS]
◼
►
them what if those episodes were only 15
[TS]
◼
►
minutes long but if they were 10 minutes
[TS]
◼
►
long what if i sold them to museums
[TS]
◼
►
right what if that was the thing that
[TS]
◼
►
you when you walked into the PFC history
[TS]
◼
►
museum that this video played and down
[TS]
◼
►
and that was a thing that I could make a
[TS]
◼
►
case to the national museum association
[TS]
◼
►
that I would go around the country and
[TS]
◼
►
do these these cool videos about these
[TS]
◼
►
different places like a you know is
[TS]
◼
►
churning all these different ideas and
[TS]
◼
►
in the end none of that stuff got made
[TS]
◼
►
and in a sense like not not yet
[TS]
◼
►
it happened right but but I can't think
[TS]
◼
►
of that as like a failure or a lot or
[TS]
◼
►
lost time because I really worked on it
[TS]
◼
►
and it didn't come to fruition but but i
[TS]
◼
►
do think about the last five years of my
[TS]
◼
►
life as this period where i was i was
[TS]
◼
►
doing that a lot i was like what am I
[TS]
◼
►
gonna use part of your like it's always
[TS]
◼
►
when you work on your own or you do
[TS]
◼
►
creative stuff an element of your job is
[TS]
◼
►
always figuring out what to do next is
[TS]
◼
►
to acknowledge work in general but I
[TS]
◼
►
think when you are creative person and
[TS]
◼
►
I'm not going to get creative because
[TS]
◼
►
everyone should stop saying that when
[TS]
◼
►
your creative person and you make stuff
[TS]
◼
►
and your output is how you are evaluated
[TS]
◼
►
huge part of what you do is thinking
[TS]
◼
►
about what to do next and how but you
[TS]
◼
►
don't really get points for that
[TS]
◼
►
understandably right you don't you don't
[TS]
◼
►
get credit for all the Opera you didn't
[TS]
◼
►
write and and if I had when I first came
[TS]
◼
►
up with this idea if I had quickly
[TS]
◼
►
written a breezy book about the life and
[TS]
◼
►
death of American cities and had like
[TS]
◼
►
gotten that in the book pipeline and had
[TS]
◼
►
gone around and done fresh air and and
[TS]
◼
►
morning talk show circuit about like
[TS]
◼
►
you've got her if if the book at had
[TS]
◼
►
support right gotta read this book it's
[TS]
◼
►
all about life and death American city
[TS]
◼
►
that's where we're at right now and and
[TS]
◼
►
you know these artisanal mustard
[TS]
◼
►
factories aren't going to make
[TS]
◼
►
you know and then went because that's
[TS]
◼
►
what David Rees effectively did he made
[TS]
◼
►
that book about pencil sharpening that
[TS]
◼
►
was very much his own personal private
[TS]
◼
►
world his own personal private joke on
[TS]
◼
►
himself and and world that he was
[TS]
◼
►
exploring and then converted that into a
[TS]
◼
►
television show and then he was in a new
[TS]
◼
►
world of of struggle and strife he found
[TS]
◼
►
a way I so interested in this actually
[TS]
◼
►
he found a way tho to guess I would say
[TS]
◼
►
take it and turn it he figured out a way
[TS]
◼
►
to make it not obvious
[TS]
◼
►
so on the one hand you okay all lost
[TS]
◼
►
people people buy lots of books about
[TS]
◼
►
sharpening pencils well not accurate
[TS]
◼
►
like so he found a way to essentially I
[TS]
◼
►
mean I've never even read the whole book
[TS]
◼
►
but from watching the TV show my sense
[TS]
◼
►
is what you're really getting to is that
[TS]
◼
►
he has a very interesting approach to to
[TS]
◼
►
thinking about life and experience and
[TS]
◼
►
expertise and that applies to stuff that
[TS]
◼
►
you might be taken for granted so it's
[TS]
◼
►
not a show about sharpening pencils and
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's it's it's kind of secretly a
[TS]
◼
►
show about curiosity and science science
[TS]
◼
►
science on some level but it's not it
[TS]
◼
►
isn't like educational it doesn't feel
[TS]
◼
►
like you're taking your medicine your
[TS]
◼
►
menu and what makes it so intriguing is
[TS]
◼
►
how how involved he is and how
[TS]
◼
►
interested he is at least on screen in
[TS]
◼
►
in exploring something that you think
[TS]
◼
►
you really understand it doesn't come
[TS]
◼
►
off turns out it doesn't feel like I
[TS]
◼
►
said it doesn't feel like medicine
[TS]
◼
►
that's that's his success there he did
[TS]
◼
►
find a way to Vegas with help from
[TS]
◼
►
people like Christine like figured a way
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and the amazing thing about David
[TS]
◼
►
and this is the great thing about Adam
[TS]
◼
►
Savage and it's a thing that that that
[TS]
◼
►
in a way i have in common with them is
[TS]
◼
►
that both of those guys are still
[TS]
◼
►
totally into an amazed by the things
[TS]
◼
►
that the the things that they discover
[TS]
◼
►
in a very childlike way
[TS]
◼
►
yeah good examples I mean I go out I i
[TS]
◼
►
spent a lot of time traveling with David
[TS]
◼
►
and he is as cynical as the next guy
[TS]
◼
►
the world right but if you lift up a
[TS]
◼
►
rock and there's a frog under it
[TS]
◼
►
David is literally jumping for joy and
[TS]
◼
►
cannot believe that there that he found
[TS]
◼
►
a frog and we were in Ethiopia together
[TS]
◼
►
and we've found this swimming hole out
[TS]
◼
►
in the internet like a nature preserve
[TS]
◼
►
and the local kids were climbing up this
[TS]
◼
►
and probably tall tree and jumping into
[TS]
◼
►
the swimming hole and David could not
[TS]
◼
►
get his clothes off fast enough and I
[TS]
◼
►
was standing there like and and jonathan
[TS]
◼
►
coulton to and saying like uh uh David
[TS]
◼
►
and he's already like well any claims of
[TS]
◼
►
history and he gets up in it and he
[TS]
◼
►
realizes how high it is and he's like oh
[TS]
◼
►
but he's standing there in his underwear
[TS]
◼
►
and there are you know 25 kids cheering
[TS]
◼
►
him on and he's gotta make the jump and
[TS]
◼
►
i'm on the shore like look man here's
[TS]
◼
►
the you know there's one spot in this
[TS]
◼
►
whole that I mean these kids are always
[TS]
◼
►
90 pounds and they can jump off that
[TS]
◼
►
tree but there's one spot in the
[TS]
◼
►
swimming hole that a 210 pound American
[TS]
◼
►
guys going to land and not impale
[TS]
◼
►
himself and it's right here
[TS]
◼
►
do not go anywhere aim here and he jumps
[TS]
◼
►
and he makes the landing and he pops up
[TS]
◼
►
and it's just like it's the most
[TS]
◼
►
beautiful thing you ever saw
[TS]
◼
►
I am never in a million years do that
[TS]
◼
►
for like 50 reasons
[TS]
◼
►
well and the reason that you wouldn't do
[TS]
◼
►
it is that two days later the Giardia
[TS]
◼
►
that went up his nose and his but when
[TS]
◼
►
he jumped in that pool caused him to be
[TS]
◼
►
projectile vomiting and pooping
[TS]
◼
►
everywhere now while we were you know
[TS]
◼
►
like a staying in a single the locals
[TS]
◼
►
for you were acclimated to it
[TS]
◼
►
oh well you know or or they always have
[TS]
◼
►
a low-level case of giardia but but um
[TS]
◼
►
but David was not acclimated to it and
[TS]
◼
►
we were then on a we were then on a navy
[TS]
◼
►
base and trying to find some some cure
[TS]
◼
►
because David couldn't couldn't walk 15
[TS]
◼
►
feet without needing to run to the
[TS]
◼
►
downtown Miami and but that is the kind
[TS]
◼
►
of you know that's the kind of actual
[TS]
◼
►
like excitement about life and Adam
[TS]
◼
►
Savage is the same thing I think way
[TS]
◼
►
it's just like you just build a scale
[TS]
◼
►
the hedge maze from the shining Why What
[TS]
◼
►
Why Why What Why and it's just like what
[TS]
◼
►
do you mean why have you seen it in
[TS]
◼
►
appointee applied people who make an
[TS]
◼
►
iphone app that says yoga people but
[TS]
◼
►
then you look at him and like what's
[TS]
◼
►
that they're dealing with the bushes
[TS]
◼
►
like that what is that like what good is
[TS]
◼
►
this he's like what good is it it look
[TS]
◼
►
at it it's it it sells itself and it's
[TS]
◼
►
like wow you mean you know like Leon
[TS]
◼
►
Christian is on board one hundred
[TS]
◼
►
percent but that like a normal person
[TS]
◼
►
would have no would have no idea that
[TS]
◼
►
that was made just than that everything
[TS]
◼
►
he makes including his TV show is made
[TS]
◼
►
just out of the spirit of like total
[TS]
◼
►
love and total childlike excitement and
[TS]
◼
►
I have that same quality about the
[TS]
◼
►
things that i love and i think i think a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of people have that quality about
[TS]
◼
►
the things that they well and that you
[TS]
◼
►
know and it's hard to sell its hard to
[TS]
◼
►
sell that excitement about like tipsy
[TS]
◼
►
have you ever looked at it in an atlas
[TS]
◼
►
it's it do you know where the freshwater
[TS]
◼
►
is never gonna make it to the first
[TS]
◼
►
commercial break
[TS]
◼
►
no except that these other nerds have
[TS]
◼
►
managed you know like that and Adams had
[TS]
◼
►
the advantage of like we're gonna blow
[TS]
◼
►
shit up on an old airport
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and whatever David's advantage was
[TS]
◼
►
it was he just invented out of whole
[TS]
◼
►
cloth right yeah and and part of that
[TS]
◼
►
advantage was the pure in probability of
[TS]
◼
►
a guy writing a book about pencils and
[TS]
◼
►
but so I'm still you know i'm still
[TS]
◼
►
turning that and you obviously have been
[TS]
◼
►
trying to write my book about my walk
[TS]
◼
►
across Europe for for 15 years now and
[TS]
◼
►
the last in iteration of it i sent it
[TS]
◼
►
off to a guy in New York City and it's a
[TS]
◼
►
hundred plus thousand words too and he
[TS]
◼
►
you know he was a fan of our program he
[TS]
◼
►
was a he was a big big editor at a at a
[TS]
◼
►
reputable legendary publishing house and
[TS]
◼
►
he was like I'm totally into this i
[TS]
◼
►
really think it's great but these
[TS]
◼
►
hundred thousand words are really more
[TS]
◼
►
like notes for a book no on the last
[TS]
◼
►
thing you want to hear
[TS]
◼
►
I was like notes for a book I was hoping
[TS]
◼
►
you were going to say they just need a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit of you know you just need to
[TS]
◼
►
run government is covering a UPC code
[TS]
◼
►
yeah i was i was getting ready to put
[TS]
◼
►
the author photo know and that you know
[TS]
◼
►
and that was just like right notes for a
[TS]
◼
►
book and the and the world has changed
[TS]
◼
►
so much in that 15 years there's so much
[TS]
◼
►
of that writing is about is about how
[TS]
◼
►
those places were in 1999 and they're
[TS]
◼
►
not like that anymore and really to just
[TS]
◼
►
different to be authentic in some ways
[TS]
◼
►
you have to really rethink the entire
[TS]
◼
►
yes because you've changed so much since
[TS]
◼
►
then right and and i think the only way
[TS]
◼
►
to do it now is that some at some point
[TS]
◼
►
10 years from now i go retrace my steps
[TS]
◼
►
and then they then that whole book that
[TS]
◼
►
i wrote were they they were notes for a
[TS]
◼
►
book like here's a walk that I did when
[TS]
◼
►
I was 30 and I never finished the book
[TS]
◼
►
so when i was 16 i went and did it again
[TS]
◼
►
this time on a bike that sounds like a
[TS]
◼
►
documentary and on the bike and the bike
[TS]
◼
►
is actually motorized it's called a
[TS]
◼
►
motorcycle who and the motorcycle
[TS]
◼
►
actually is a car and it's actually a
[TS]
◼
►
plane and I flew over the I flew over
[TS]
◼
►
the place that i walked in i wrote my
[TS]
◼
►
reflections on that over a long weekend
[TS]
◼
►
don't forget no go I you can be really
[TS]
◼
►
thinking about something now it is this
[TS]
◼
►
as sounds kind of karma sucks and I
[TS]
◼
►
don't mean it to be the way that you
[TS]
◼
►
were describing you know talking about
[TS]
◼
►
like trying to get you your concept for
[TS]
◼
►
TV show on some of those places and then
[TS]
◼
►
saying that you know people don't want
[TS]
◼
►
to watch TV from people who don't watch
[TS]
◼
►
yeah there's something in that is really
[TS]
◼
►
painful and interesting to me because it
[TS]
◼
►
leads to this larger point which is you
[TS]
◼
►
know how little we each ultimately
[TS]
◼
►
understand about the industries were not
[TS]
◼
►
in right so you know you think you've
[TS]
◼
►
read lots of books so you think of
[TS]
◼
►
yourself as somebody who's who could be
[TS]
◼
►
an author like a published author not
[TS]
◼
►
just a writer but published some who
[TS]
◼
►
sells their words for a living and
[TS]
◼
►
periodically and again and again and
[TS]
◼
►
again or you think of yourself as
[TS]
◼
►
something like oh my god I've watched
[TS]
◼
►
and read so much science fiction uh I
[TS]
◼
►
could I could easily make a science
[TS]
◼
►
fiction TV show and get it on netflix
[TS]
◼
►
everybody's doing it nowadays but then
[TS]
◼
►
once you actually meet people inside the
[TS]
◼
►
industry it ends up you rely feel like
[TS]
◼
►
you realize how a how little you really
[TS]
◼
►
understand about that industry like we
[TS]
◼
►
all have these gases and we've read
[TS]
◼
►
things we've read books but in that case
[TS]
◼
►
we're like you go like we haven't liked
[TS]
◼
►
for Jon Jon's show hills and rivers
[TS]
◼
►
where he goes around towards the great
[TS]
◼
►
cities of American discusses their
[TS]
◼
►
complexion like okay who do we think
[TS]
◼
►
that is for and like who would watch
[TS]
◼
►
that but also like who would advertise
[TS]
◼
►
on that show right cause of the problem
[TS]
◼
►
with the show like that i could see that
[TS]
◼
►
being a huge disconnect that you know
[TS]
◼
►
you want young people to watch it but
[TS]
◼
►
it's probably like forward that would
[TS]
◼
►
want to buy an ad on there or Buick or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever anything make Buicks but I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know I just think that's I think
[TS]
◼
►
that's part of it is like it makes the
[TS]
◼
►
can feel depressed it's too strong a
[TS]
◼
►
word but can feel like it keeps you down
[TS]
◼
►
because you start to feel like such a
[TS]
◼
►
yeah he fundamentally don't understand
[TS]
◼
►
this industry and then then finally that
[TS]
◼
►
point like why do you imagine that there
[TS]
◼
►
are there are by tens of thousands of
[TS]
◼
►
people hundreds of thousands of people
[TS]
◼
►
working all these images
[TS]
◼
►
why don't they have TV shows they
[TS]
◼
►
already understand how to make TV you
[TS]
◼
►
like do you think you're actually that
[TS]
◼
►
much better at making a movie than
[TS]
◼
►
somebody who's been like an assistant
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and yet but they're yeoman they do
[TS]
◼
►
it's just that we look at that go i can
[TS]
◼
►
make the Avengers better or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
it's like well you sure this was a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of people working on that is take right
[TS]
◼
►
well as anybody staffed up some of a big
[TS]
◼
►
part of that it is the it's the classic
[TS]
◼
►
thing and I'm and I'm seeing it now it
[TS]
◼
►
in my foray into politics which is that
[TS]
◼
►
I'm i am encountering the entrenched
[TS]
◼
►
class and they are saying what makes
[TS]
◼
►
what makes you think that you can do
[TS]
◼
►
this better then those of us who are who
[TS]
◼
►
have only been doing this and have been
[TS]
◼
►
doing this for a long time and they're
[TS]
◼
►
absolutely right in the sense that it in
[TS]
◼
►
this same exact sense that you just
[TS]
◼
►
described and the only hope the only
[TS]
◼
►
hope is that routinely there are people
[TS]
◼
►
from outside all these spirits who
[TS]
◼
►
come in with a with a good idea and are
[TS]
◼
►
able to master the vernacular put
[TS]
◼
►
together that the right team of smart
[TS]
◼
►
people to help her and actually do make
[TS]
◼
►
something new from outside and it
[TS]
◼
►
happens infrequently enough but it is
[TS]
◼
►
that but when it does happen it's expect
[TS]
◼
►
so exciting to us that we you know that
[TS]
◼
►
we miss apply the lesson and think wow
[TS]
◼
►
you know that again like I could I could
[TS]
◼
►
make the Avengers better by sitting why
[TS]
◼
►
can't I be Elon Musk right why can't I
[TS]
◼
►
be yeah it kind of isn't that kind of
[TS]
◼
►
what about it is and and and and partly
[TS]
◼
►
you know partly it is this kits the
[TS]
◼
►
question of how what role does expertise
[TS]
◼
►
and experience play in various jobs and
[TS]
◼
►
in you know like pediatric brain surgery
[TS]
◼
►
it's a factor right expertise is the
[TS]
◼
►
whole game there is
[TS]
◼
►
I mean the best pediatric brain surgeon
[TS]
◼
►
and the worst pediatric brain surgeon
[TS]
◼
►
between those two people there is
[TS]
◼
►
inspiration probably is the factor right
[TS]
◼
►
this person has that the best pediatric
[TS]
◼
►
brain surgeon probably has incredible
[TS]
◼
►
dexterity and has a natural physical
[TS]
◼
►
gift and maybe also has inspiration but
[TS]
◼
►
the worst pediatric brain surgeon who
[TS]
◼
►
isn't merely incompetent right who isn't
[TS]
◼
►
in jail or or or or committed
[TS]
◼
►
malpractice but the you know the worst
[TS]
◼
►
one who is still competent is still an
[TS]
◼
►
incredible expert in their field right
[TS]
◼
►
and in things like filmmaking and comedy
[TS]
◼
►
writing and television producing I think
[TS]
◼
►
it's much more it's much more likely
[TS]
◼
►
that the people who have the expertise
[TS]
◼
►
do have a knowledge base that's that's
[TS]
◼
►
useful but they also are kind of
[TS]
◼
►
gatekeepers in a way that that keep that
[TS]
◼
►
it probably has a tendency to keep good
[TS]
◼
►
I mean and a lot of the people that that
[TS]
◼
►
just that green light TV shows are
[TS]
◼
►
producers who are who are timid and
[TS]
◼
►
don't want to make a mistake and so they
[TS]
◼
►
keep making the same show over and over
[TS]
◼
►
and what they care about the TV even if
[TS]
◼
►
they don't love every program they care
[TS]
◼
►
about the process they well or that or
[TS]
◼
►
they're in the process and you know
[TS]
◼
►
it'sit's you see that the same way in
[TS]
◼
►
politics that people get a long way in
[TS]
◼
►
politics by being timid
[TS]
◼
►
like don't don't if you don't step too
[TS]
◼
►
far to the left or too far to the right
[TS]
◼
►
keep your nose clean you make the right
[TS]
◼
►
friends you know just keep your head
[TS]
◼
►
down right they do care what is your
[TS]
◼
►
advice to give you a public official but
[TS]
◼
►
you might have to get next day they
[TS]
◼
►
ultimately do care about the you know
[TS]
◼
►
the something got them engage initially
[TS]
◼
►
and then they are in the process which
[TS]
◼
►
feels kind of like the military or a
[TS]
◼
►
corporation you just you do what is done
[TS]
◼
►
and you don't rock the boat and you get
[TS]
◼
►
where you're going and I think a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
people end up producers in television
[TS]
◼
►
and they're not they don't all love it
[TS]
◼
►
or even understand it but a lot of them
[TS]
◼
►
are there because their brother was that
[TS]
◼
►
you know the brother gave him a job and
[TS]
◼
►
so so there are these are there are
[TS]
◼
►
these forms that are different from
[TS]
◼
►
pediatrics pediatric brain surgery but
[TS]
◼
►
people who occupy those jobs would like
[TS]
◼
►
you to think that it was equivalent to
[TS]
◼
►
okay that makes sense right and it's
[TS]
◼
►
like yeah oh you don't have the
[TS]
◼
►
expertise to do this it's like well it's
[TS]
◼
►
not it expertise isn't the entire game
[TS]
◼
►
in a lot of these brackets I like what
[TS]
◼
►
you're saying about expertise and
[TS]
◼
►
experience and this is probably nested
[TS]
◼
►
right in the middle of what you're
[TS]
◼
►
saying but i would say for that to form
[TS]
◼
►
a three-legged stool you got experience
[TS]
◼
►
expertise and the third really obvious
[TS]
◼
►
one is motivation because I think a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of the reason that and then I don't
[TS]
◼
►
notice I'm not saying inspiration i'm
[TS]
◼
►
saying motivation like not only like
[TS]
◼
►
what makes you want to do this what it's
[TS]
◼
►
about you can even call it tastes and
[TS]
◼
►
some of these like what is it that makes
[TS]
◼
►
you want to be good at this and how do
[TS]
◼
►
you evaluate how well it's going and
[TS]
◼
►
what you need to do differently
[TS]
◼
►
does that happen like a hundred percent
[TS]
◼
►
intuitively because you so like in the
[TS]
◼
►
case of like you said in show business
[TS]
◼
►
maybe you were raised in a family that's
[TS]
◼
►
just in your bones you know if you like
[TS]
◼
►
Sofia Coppola like she's been around
[TS]
◼
►
that so much that you know just getting
[TS]
◼
►
a little out of this sounds really
[TS]
◼
►
dismissive I don't mean to but like I
[TS]
◼
►
think it's easy but it's certainly not
[TS]
◼
►
as is a patently difficult if you're a
[TS]
◼
►
kid in Oklahoma was only ever the
[TS]
◼
►
biggest explosion they've had to the
[TS]
◼
►
film industry is going to the cinema but
[TS]
◼
►
that motivation the thing is that's the
[TS]
◼
►
part a lot of people get wrong even with
[TS]
◼
►
the experience and even
[TS]
◼
►
it's hard to get the experience that
[TS]
◼
►
brings you the expertise if you don't
[TS]
◼
►
have the right motivation they all end
[TS]
◼
►
up popping each other up and if your
[TS]
◼
►
politics and you have the wrong
[TS]
◼
►
motivation week with a recipe for
[TS]
◼
►
well yeah and the but I think what I
[TS]
◼
►
think what also often happens is that
[TS]
◼
►
people with the right motivation
[TS]
◼
►
encounter a system a pre-existing system
[TS]
◼
►
that they aren't able to navigate
[TS]
◼
►
successfully and I think there are every
[TS]
◼
►
year you see people run for office that
[TS]
◼
►
seem like you know they're painted as
[TS]
◼
►
kind of crackpots but they're really
[TS]
◼
►
inspired to make a difference and they
[TS]
◼
►
just they're painted as crackpots
[TS]
◼
►
because they are able to navigate the to
[TS]
◼
►
the to navigate the game and I mean we
[TS]
◼
►
we see it in corporate life all the time
[TS]
◼
►
the people i was talking to a a good
[TS]
◼
►
friend the other day and she was time at
[TS]
◼
►
her job she's like well the CEO doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
he's not really a visionary and I said
[TS]
◼
►
how many people work at your company and
[TS]
◼
►
she said 25 and I said and you guys have
[TS]
◼
►
a CEO like when I was coming up in the
[TS]
◼
►
world a company that had 25 employees
[TS]
◼
►
maybe had a president and that President
[TS]
◼
►
was also the founder but the world we're
[TS]
◼
►
living in now your company of 25 people
[TS]
◼
►
has us as a board of directors a CEO CFO
[TS]
◼
►
a CTO and then however many
[TS]
◼
►
vice-presidents and then however many
[TS]
◼
►
managers does your erectors does your
[TS]
◼
►
business have any employees who um and
[TS]
◼
►
that the fact that that that her company
[TS]
◼
►
has a/c CEO who is 45 years old and is
[TS]
◼
►
you know like a guy running his own come
[TS]
◼
►
running a company for the first time you
[TS]
◼
►
know is like the
[TS]
◼
►
the expertise that he has on offer or
[TS]
◼
►
like the talents that he is really
[TS]
◼
►
applying a lot of those talents are just
[TS]
◼
►
like a primarily in in having the foot
[TS]
◼
►
spa to call himself a CEO huh
[TS]
◼
►
um and that's you know that is like the
[TS]
◼
►
that's a that's a a an emblem of the age
[TS]
◼
►
could it's one of the few kinds of jobs
[TS]
◼
►
that were you know this is really bad
[TS]
◼
►
know where you can be you can get really
[TS]
◼
►
far potentially really fast and still be
[TS]
◼
►
completely self-deluded you could be
[TS]
◼
►
virtually psychotic and that might
[TS]
◼
►
actually improve your chances because
[TS]
◼
►
you're one of those people who goes no I
[TS]
◼
►
refuse to fail i refused to have
[TS]
◼
►
anything except like world-changing
[TS]
◼
►
success with this and when I hear that
[TS]
◼
►
I'm like man failure is always an option
[TS]
◼
►
like a rocket always be thinking about
[TS]
◼
►
that because you make dumb decisions if
[TS]
◼
►
you think you can't fail
[TS]
◼
►
yeah right well i'm not and that but the
[TS]
◼
►
thing is that the business climate now
[TS]
◼
►
for a lot of these people is like I have
[TS]
◼
►
no interest in making this a viable
[TS]
◼
►
business i want to sell this company
[TS]
◼
►
growth hacking growth bad so so I as I
[TS]
◼
►
look around the world and and and and
[TS]
◼
►
and i definitely felt this about that
[TS]
◼
►
it's like there are people who make a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of sense telling me that well or
[TS]
◼
►
rather asking me the with a knowing I
[TS]
◼
►
who's gonna watch your show and they
[TS]
◼
►
know the answer and the answer is nobody
[TS]
◼
►
or the answer is not enough people to
[TS]
◼
►
sell ads to make it profitable and i'm
[TS]
◼
►
sitting on the other side saying you
[TS]
◼
►
know you have this special knowledge of
[TS]
◼
►
who watches things and you're using that
[TS]
◼
►
special knowledge to say it's him that
[TS]
◼
►
you know and invariably the people say i
[TS]
◼
►
would love that show but nobody's gonna
[TS]
◼
►
watch it and so what they're saying is
[TS]
◼
►
the kind of the old classic standby like
[TS]
◼
►
it would be we could make a better world
[TS]
◼
►
if only people weren't so dumb
[TS]
◼
►
and since they are we can't make a
[TS]
◼
►
better world we can only give them what
[TS]
◼
►
they want to buy and so we're so those
[TS]
◼
►
of us who know that things could be
[TS]
◼
►
better are hamstrung by the fact that we
[TS]
◼
►
can't know we can't make things better
[TS]
◼
►
and it's the you know it's the dark side
[TS]
◼
►
of letting the market economy be the
[TS]
◼
►
Church of of your thinking huh where
[TS]
◼
►
it's like yeah we could make amazing
[TS]
◼
►
things we could make we can make
[TS]
◼
►
beautiful television we can make
[TS]
◼
►
television that was uh you know that was
[TS]
◼
►
for the ages but sadly no one would buy
[TS]
◼
►
it and so there's no point in making it
[TS]
◼
►
anyway thanks for coming
[TS]
◼
►
we're gonna go back to our you know a
[TS]
◼
►
toddler t toddlers and tiaras and you
[TS]
◼
►
see the same thing also in city
[TS]
◼
►
government except people aren't quite so
[TS]
◼
►
Craven but you do you know you go into
[TS]
◼
►
city government you say hey there
[TS]
◼
►
there's a way to do this we could you
[TS]
◼
►
know we can build affordable housing for
[TS]
◼
►
middle-class families and people go we
[TS]
◼
►
could but not only we could have all I
[TS]
◼
►
would love to be able to do that but
[TS]
◼
►
what is that ok that's the interesting
[TS]
◼
►
thing about what you're saying some ways
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I want that too
[TS]
◼
►
I want exactly what you want but what my
[TS]
◼
►
job is to sit here and tell you that the
[TS]
◼
►
realities don't allow it and so thanks
[TS]
◼
►
for coming sorry that we couldn't make a
[TS]
◼
►
better world for you know if you have
[TS]
◼
►
that's dumber be sure to call us stopped
[TS]
◼
►
because we really like where you're
[TS]
◼
►
uh-huh and that you know and ultimately
[TS]
◼
►
that is that it is an argument of them
[TS]
◼
►
um and you and all the examples where
[TS]
◼
►
you say well somebody made this thing
[TS]
◼
►
that nobody thought you know that nobody
[TS]
◼
►
thought anybody wanted and that
[TS]
◼
►
everybody wanted it and people go yeah
[TS]
◼
►
but not that doesn't happen very often
[TS]
◼
►
and that guy was something like it
[TS]
◼
►
that's not good for shareholders it's
[TS]
◼
►
not good for shareholders you know like
[TS]
◼
►
every once in awhile sure there's a
[TS]
◼
►
there's a revolution and everybody's
[TS]
◼
►
thinking every once in a while the
[TS]
◼
►
strokes come along and
[TS]
◼
►
sound just like Iggy and the Stooges and
[TS]
◼
►
nobody knew that that's what they wanted
[TS]
◼
►
nobody in nobody in the year 2000 said
[TS]
◼
►
you know what I would like a young cute
[TS]
◼
►
less abrasive Iggy and the Stooges that
[TS]
◼
►
sounds kind of like the velvet
[TS]
◼
►
underground to it could you make that
[TS]
◼
►
and then these kids made it and for a
[TS]
◼
►
year all anybody want to listen to is
[TS]
◼
►
that first strokes record and you go wow
[TS]
◼
►
that was a thing that i mean i was i was
[TS]
◼
►
in the process of making a record during
[TS]
◼
►
those same months and never occurred to
[TS]
◼
►
me to make a you know or two to make a
[TS]
◼
►
record that sounded exactly like Joy
[TS]
◼
►
Division you can't you can't I mean you
[TS]
◼
►
guys remember that you can never
[TS]
◼
►
replicate the timing and circumstances
[TS]
◼
►
that my friend friend night junkie when
[TS]
◼
►
I did a panel itself myself West few
[TS]
◼
►
years ago and the fries were using is
[TS]
◼
►
like I am and I you know it's not a
[TS]
◼
►
question of like how you're going to be
[TS]
◼
►
as our glass says is how you're going to
[TS]
◼
►
be Ted Koppel like how are you going to
[TS]
◼
►
be who you are like you can't replicate
[TS]
◼
►
the the so again so obvious but you
[TS]
◼
►
can't replicate the circumstances and
[TS]
◼
►
the timing it was never a sure bet that
[TS]
◼
►
anything was ever gonna happen ever
[TS]
◼
►
really right if you're really realistic
[TS]
◼
►
about it what you want you don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
replicate what somebody didn't go i'm
[TS]
◼
►
gonna be the X of Y well no I mean to
[TS]
◼
►
become the XY you have to have the same
[TS]
◼
►
kind of the the similarities in the
[TS]
◼
►
spirit week I think we've talked about
[TS]
◼
►
this a million times but you don't want
[TS]
◼
►
to go replicate steve jobs by like you
[TS]
◼
►
know being mean to people like that's
[TS]
◼
►
not on the face of it gonna be super
[TS]
◼
►
that's the wrong note to take from that
[TS]
◼
►
career yeah well and that's the you're
[TS]
◼
►
absolutely right to say that nothing is
[TS]
◼
►
ever inevitable because if it if it were
[TS]
◼
►
everybody would've done it everybody
[TS]
◼
►
would have done it fantastically
[TS]
◼
►
time-travel paradox via the music
[TS]
◼
►
business is full of people trying to put
[TS]
◼
►
the you know put the formula to work who
[TS]
◼
►
and say okay here comes the next band
[TS]
◼
►
that you are going to love everybody and
[TS]
◼
►
then the next Bank of loans like nobody
[TS]
◼
►
gives a fuck yeah but there are put it
[TS]
◼
►
but but i cannot succumb to the idea
[TS]
◼
►
that though that the the
[TS]
◼
►
Leigh intellectual can't ever engage
[TS]
◼
►
with the world in any way other than
[TS]
◼
►
just writing opinion pieces for the
[TS]
◼
►
local newspaper you know like they're
[TS]
◼
►
that the Oracle just just just donating
[TS]
◼
►
and just leaving positive comments that
[TS]
◼
►
your your role in this is to participate
[TS]
◼
►
in the machine that we've all agreed
[TS]
◼
►
can't be changed like like we need to we
[TS]
◼
►
need we are so siloed and so much a
[TS]
◼
►
culture of the cult of expertise and
[TS]
◼
►
some of those things absolutely require
[TS]
◼
►
expertise like pediatric brain surgery
[TS]
◼
►
and even i would argue referring to ben
[TS]
◼
►
Carson are you is that is that an
[TS]
◼
►
unintentional reference or do you know
[TS]
◼
►
what you're saying they're uh what how
[TS]
◼
►
is that what I'm just trying to function
[TS]
◼
►
say that no I i I'm holding this is not
[TS]
◼
►
relevant but I i went to the wikipedia
[TS]
◼
►
page for Republican presidential
[TS]
◼
►
candidates and at the current rate the
[TS]
◼
►
rate of the of sunday today's Monday as
[TS]
◼
►
we record this and tuesday you have one
[TS]
◼
►
one person announce me third we have
[TS]
◼
►
another announcement forth and the third
[TS]
◼
►
is expected to announce on on May fifth
[TS]
◼
►
and Carson the guy from a third author
[TS]
◼
►
and former director of pediatric
[TS]
◼
►
neurosurgery for Johns Hopkins is that
[TS]
◼
►
there is he holds some very strange view
[TS]
◼
►
spend Carson's about how the world the
[TS]
◼
►
world shakes out but he is an expert
[TS]
◼
►
pediatric brain surgeon for society did
[TS]
◼
►
you really I don't know what I was an
[TS]
◼
►
it's a it's quite all right there are
[TS]
◼
►
you know I'm looking for role models
[TS]
◼
►
everywhere million stories in The Naked
[TS]
◼
►
City yeah the guy that really knows how
[TS]
◼
►
to adjust the the boat the Quadrajet
[TS]
◼
►
carburetor the Rochester Quadrajet
[TS]
◼
►
carburetor on my truck has a kind of
[TS]
◼
►
expertise that is akin to restoring a
[TS]
◼
►
Stradivarius but there are lots of other
[TS]
◼
►
jobs and I really do feel like CEO of a
[TS]
◼
►
25-person company is one of those jobs
[TS]
◼
►
that almost anybody could do
[TS]
◼
►
and I know that that it you know i know
[TS]
◼
►
that that is that's going to get that
[TS]
◼
►
some people mad but a specially growth
[TS]
◼
►
hackers just those people are wrong but
[TS]
◼
►
you know like every single friend i have
[TS]
◼
►
could be the CEO of a 25-person company
[TS]
◼
►
every single one of them because you
[TS]
◼
►
takes awhile to figure out how what the
[TS]
◼
►
company makes and then it takes awhile
[TS]
◼
►
to figure out where the company sits in
[TS]
◼
►
the in the landscape and then you need
[TS]
◼
►
to start figuring out how the company
[TS]
◼
►
can do better and those yeah and and
[TS]
◼
►
that learning process what is the
[TS]
◼
►
company make where does the company sit
[TS]
◼
►
that stuff should not be that difficult
[TS]
◼
►
for a firm or normally intelligent
[TS]
◼
►
person to figure out and then we're how
[TS]
◼
►
does this company get better and if this
[TS]
◼
►
company needs to grow to get better then
[TS]
◼
►
that's one direction and if this company
[TS]
◼
►
does not need to grow but just needs to
[TS]
◼
►
get better that's another solution but
[TS]
◼
►
any reasonably intelligent person can
[TS]
◼
►
address that step set of circumstances
[TS]
◼
►
and you know and move forward in an
[TS]
◼
►
interesting way anybody that I know to
[TS]
◼
►
be the CEO of a of a 40,000 person
[TS]
◼
►
company at that point you are you have
[TS]
◼
►
to be a you have to be really good at
[TS]
◼
►
and flowcharts I mean you know yet you
[TS]
◼
►
don't have so many complementary skills
[TS]
◼
►
that are always evolving and you have
[TS]
◼
►
and the primarily are the primary one
[TS]
◼
►
would be had know how to hire good
[TS]
◼
►
people who write the to manage your
[TS]
◼
►
divisions but 25 people working on a on
[TS]
◼
►
a project if you are good if you're a
[TS]
◼
►
good person and not a not a megalomaniac
[TS]
◼
►
you should be able to handle that
[TS]
◼
►
that project it's not it's not rocket
[TS]
◼
►
what about the part you said something
[TS]
◼
►
earlier about that feeling of like we're
[TS]
◼
►
getting up in the morning thing of like
[TS]
◼
►
climbing the mountain and hoping there's
[TS]
◼
►
something on the ridge is there
[TS]
◼
►
something to be said for the people who
[TS]
◼
►
are able to motivate people sight unseen
[TS]
◼
►
on some kind of a goal that that seems
[TS]
◼
►
ridiculous or non-existent
[TS]
◼
►
that's not just delusional right how do
[TS]
◼
►
you mean motivate people so if you start
[TS]
◼
►
up let's say let's say you're gonna
[TS]
◼
►
start up in boy i'm so glad we're
[TS]
◼
►
finally talking about startups but if
[TS]
◼
►
let's say you're at a growing company
[TS]
◼
►
let's just say a small growing company a
[TS]
◼
►
small growing company maybe save 25
[TS]
◼
►
people may be in the bay area got
[TS]
◼
►
everybody's been producing something
[TS]
◼
►
sorry I said anything I already hate
[TS]
◼
►
no but I mean you're there is it seems
[TS]
◼
►
like there's something to be said for
[TS]
◼
►
like you know in addition to all the
[TS]
◼
►
kind of the the change in the stress and
[TS]
◼
►
dealing with the funding and all that
[TS]
◼
►
kind of stuff that ability to maintain
[TS]
◼
►
the confidence of people who could very
[TS]
◼
►
easily get a job anywhere else it seems
[TS]
◼
►
like that would take a certain I could
[TS]
◼
►
see that taking a special kind of skill
[TS]
◼
►
even with up to 25 people because you
[TS]
◼
►
know you're kind of showing your own
[TS]
◼
►
credibility the company's credibility
[TS]
◼
►
everything's changing all the time you
[TS]
◼
►
know what I mean maybe I watch too much
[TS]
◼
►
silicon valley but but that seems like
[TS]
◼
►
that seems like like that is kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
special thing to be able to do you have
[TS]
◼
►
to have a high level of as we sandy you
[TS]
◼
►
know Constitution charisma be able to
[TS]
◼
►
pull that off even if you're young
[TS]
◼
►
my sense is that that now that the
[TS]
◼
►
business climate it does require those
[TS]
◼
►
things because the because its a game
[TS]
◼
►
it's all about you know grow fast fill a
[TS]
◼
►
niche niche keep nimble who you know
[TS]
◼
►
sell hi everybody gets rich everyone is
[TS]
◼
►
motivated in that business by the
[TS]
◼
►
possibility the very real possibility
[TS]
◼
►
that 27 years old they're gonna be like
[TS]
◼
►
astoundingly rich all of a sudden one
[TS]
◼
►
day and that's so different from from
[TS]
◼
►
actual business like you when you think
[TS]
◼
►
about limes a really good point from
[TS]
◼
►
home from from being just like for
[TS]
◼
►
example if you've got a business that
[TS]
◼
►
maybe public but has been like operated
[TS]
◼
►
by a family like just that disk that
[TS]
◼
►
feeling of like how do I make sure I not
[TS]
◼
►
screw up Mike what my what my mother and
[TS]
◼
►
my father and my grandparents like what
[TS]
◼
►
they do I mean that constant feeling of
[TS]
◼
►
like they need something great now it's
[TS]
◼
►
up to me to screw it up when you think
[TS]
◼
►
about I mean there are people in our
[TS]
◼
►
world now who are practicing a different
[TS]
◼
►
kind of business right the guys that
[TS]
◼
►
start a company that makes bicycles and
[TS]
◼
►
they're making they've improved their
[TS]
◼
►
design and they're making a better
[TS]
◼
►
bicycle and they're not thinking i'm
[TS]
◼
►
gonna sell this bicycle company
[TS]
◼
►
nice win who i'm not i'm gonna get a
[TS]
◼
►
gonna make a million dollars they are
[TS]
◼
►
legitimately like reflecting on the
[TS]
◼
►
world as it is insane i'm gonna go back
[TS]
◼
►
to doing something like manufacturing
[TS]
◼
►
bicycles and that's going to be my peace
[TS]
◼
►
of mind and I'm gonna have a quality of
[TS]
◼
►
life and maybe there's a quality
[TS]
◼
►
differentiator in the bikes new charge
[TS]
◼
►
Yeah right there generating a
[TS]
◼
►
sustainable business based on something
[TS]
◼
►
that you care a lot about are good at
[TS]
◼
►
and that is though that is the
[TS]
◼
►
old-fashioned way of looking at business
[TS]
◼
►
where you're not you know where the
[TS]
◼
►
product is the entire story and
[TS]
◼
►
everything else in your business that is
[TS]
◼
►
designed to ward the product and the end
[TS]
◼
►
and you know efficiencies are there eee
[TS]
◼
►
eee try and make it profitable so that
[TS]
◼
►
everybody can make a living wage but the
[TS]
◼
►
product tells the story and it
[TS]
◼
►
increasingly this other style of
[TS]
◼
►
business where it's like wow the product
[TS]
◼
►
sure I mean wewe haven't even really
[TS]
◼
►
decided what the product is but we have
[TS]
◼
►
only knows where growth hacking it you
[TS]
◼
►
know but we have seven different layers
[TS]
◼
►
of like sea level management and one of
[TS]
◼
►
these day and already we're getting
[TS]
◼
►
looked at by these people who are
[TS]
◼
►
thinking about you know flushing us with
[TS]
◼
►
cash and you know maybe we'll make an
[TS]
◼
►
app that makes a bong when it turns off
[TS]
◼
►
maybe we'll make a a speaker that you
[TS]
◼
►
can suction cup to your chest like there
[TS]
◼
►
are a lot of things we could be building
[TS]
◼
►
we haven't quite figured that out and
[TS]
◼
►
that style of business is you know it's
[TS]
◼
►
like Bitcoin farming it's it's something
[TS]
◼
►
that maybe is going to make you rich and
[TS]
◼
►
it it takes up a lot of your day and
[TS]
◼
►
like you say it requires that you be
[TS]
◼
►
charismatic and that you convince people
[TS]
◼
►
but it isn't about really like making
[TS]
◼
►
anything that helps anybody or making
[TS]
◼
►
anything at all in some cases that's an
[TS]
◼
►
interesting edge case though because
[TS]
◼
►
talking about motivation in some ways
[TS]
◼
►
though even though the motivation is to
[TS]
◼
►
me you know insane or or you know nearly
[TS]
◼
►
magical nom f it is one thing most the
[TS]
◼
►
players an industry to share motivation
[TS]
◼
►
which is like I want all the money as
[TS]
◼
►
fast as possible i want all the money as
[TS]
◼
►
and it's the vc's that are getting you
[TS]
◼
►
know nine ninety percent failure rates
[TS]
◼
►
because of the you know ten percent that
[TS]
◼
►
will pay off like they know they're not
[TS]
◼
►
doing that because they like you they
[TS]
◼
►
are doing that because they think
[TS]
◼
►
they're going to make a ton of money
[TS]
◼
►
from you right and that is why like
[TS]
◼
►
libertarianism is the political a like
[TS]
◼
►
realm of choice for a lot of those
[TS]
◼
►
people because they don't you know
[TS]
◼
►
because when they do hit the numbers
[TS]
◼
►
when the money does come pouring in
[TS]
◼
►
they really do believe that they made it
[TS]
◼
►
out of thin air and that they don't know
[TS]
◼
►
anybody that they didn't you know that
[TS]
◼
►
they're not part of a community that
[TS]
◼
►
they're part of it
[TS]
◼
►
this genius level tier of of of Bitcoin
[TS]
◼
►
farmers and and so you know I'm where
[TS]
◼
►
we're seeing it in Seattle like Jeff
[TS]
◼
►
Bezos really does believe that I guess
[TS]
◼
►
the streets were already there when he
[TS]
◼
►
got here so grandfathered in
[TS]
◼
►
yeah so he doesn't really have a sense
[TS]
◼
►
of how they got put there or how they
[TS]
◼
►
are maintained but he doesn't care like
[TS]
◼
►
the money he's making is because he was
[TS]
◼
►
because he's a genius
[TS]
◼
►
Cassie question related to that as far
[TS]
◼
►
as how the campaign is going on the
[TS]
◼
►
people when you talk to people and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
have to imagine there are some people
[TS]
◼
►
who are like this is not plausible you
[TS]
◼
►
don't have the experience whatever like
[TS]
◼
►
who the people you find most interesting
[TS]
◼
►
in terms of believing in what you're
[TS]
◼
►
apart from just the the relief of having
[TS]
◼
►
somebody go i think that's that's doable
[TS]
◼
►
and that's a good idea and i would
[TS]
◼
►
who do you think of the most interesting
[TS]
◼
►
or surprising people lining up to go
[TS]
◼
►
yeah this is a terrific idea we've got
[TS]
◼
►
what's really cool is that you know that
[TS]
◼
►
initial sense of like well what the
[TS]
◼
►
guitar player wants to be on City
[TS]
◼
►
Council he doesn't have the experience
[TS]
◼
►
necessary we're the weird rock candidate
[TS]
◼
►
it was doing a show at the rendezvous
[TS]
◼
►
last year wants to be off on the City
[TS]
◼
►
Council he doesn't have the experience
[TS]
◼
►
and invariably when I sit with one of
[TS]
◼
►
those people and talk to them for a very
[TS]
◼
►
short amount of time they're like oh you
[TS]
◼
►
are absolutely a great candidate for
[TS]
◼
►
this job and you you can't you can
[TS]
◼
►
absolutely do this and then they leaned
[TS]
◼
►
in and they go but here's what you need
[TS]
◼
►
to know and then they start telling me a
[TS]
◼
►
similar thing to the TV producer like
[TS]
◼
►
you really need to dumb this down you
[TS]
◼
►
hear the the words they use are too big
[TS]
◼
►
to spend a lot of time a really like the
[TS]
◼
►
the word that i keep hearing his I da
[TS]
◼
►
ting you keep I da ting with these
[TS]
◼
►
thoughts storms and you really need to
[TS]
◼
►
just have the three takeaways the bullet
[TS]
◼
►
points the the quick and dirty and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
wreck and and I've been fighting it for
[TS]
◼
►
like I don't think in bullet points and
[TS]
◼
►
talking points I don't want to do it I'd
[TS]
◼
►
I resistant and lately I've been hearing
[TS]
◼
►
more new because i'm meeting a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
people you know I've been i spent all
[TS]
◼
►
last week calling cold-calling lawyers
[TS]
◼
►
like powerful lawyers in town saying hi
[TS]
◼
►
I'm John rock I'm running for City
[TS]
◼
►
Council you're a big-shot lawyer a
[TS]
◼
►
big-shot developer and I need to talk to
[TS]
◼
►
you on the phone I need you to have
[TS]
◼
►
heard my voice I need you to know my
[TS]
◼
►
name and I need to hear from you what
[TS]
◼
►
you think the problems facing the
[TS]
◼
►
bigshot lawyers and developers are in
[TS]
◼
►
town so that I don't go into this
[TS]
◼
►
gladiator contest unarmed and you know
[TS]
◼
►
and they live it and they talk to me for
[TS]
◼
►
a little while they're like oh you you
[TS]
◼
►
are completely viable you know their
[TS]
◼
►
initial responses like who
[TS]
◼
►
what you're the artist and then we
[TS]
◼
►
talked for a while and they're like all
[TS]
◼
►
right well and then so then they get
[TS]
◼
►
their voices get softer and they leaned
[TS]
◼
►
in and they say listen you need that you
[TS]
◼
►
need the bullet points like you can you
[TS]
◼
►
can you can talk id8 all you want in in
[TS]
◼
►
between but you need to start every
[TS]
◼
►
conversation with your three bullet
[TS]
◼
►
points and every conversation with it
[TS]
◼
►
because that's all anybody's going to
[TS]
◼
►
Wow and somebody said to me the other
[TS]
◼
►
day they were like it's like the chorus
[TS]
◼
►
of a song can you get this through your
[TS]
◼
►
nobody remembers the verse everybody
[TS]
◼
►
sings the chorus and I'm like the
[TS]
◼
►
fucking chorus of the song good example
[TS]
◼
►
let's see and ironically enough it is a
[TS]
◼
►
perfect example of exactly what they're
[TS]
◼
►
advising them take something that is
[TS]
◼
►
really really difficult to understand
[TS]
◼
►
let alone do and turn into something
[TS]
◼
►
anybody kid especially somebody who's a
[TS]
◼
►
writer can instantly understand
[TS]
◼
►
instantly understand it and repeat over
[TS]
◼
►
and over and then when somebody's on the
[TS]
◼
►
bus and they're like I'm voting for John
[TS]
◼
►
Roderick and the person next time goes
[TS]
◼
►
what's he stand for
[TS]
◼
►
they go ooh child isn't going to get any
[TS]
◼
►
easier you know like they sing the
[TS]
◼
►
chorus and then the person sitting next
[TS]
◼
►
to him on the bus that's never gonna
[TS]
◼
►
think about it again when the ballot
[TS]
◼
►
comes they're like oh that's right that
[TS]
◼
►
guy that sings ooh child although for
[TS]
◼
►
him and so that part of the thing is is
[TS]
◼
►
but-but-but-but did describing that way
[TS]
◼
►
make it seem more palatable it still is
[TS]
◼
►
against my nature even somebody even as
[TS]
◼
►
someone who has written a book of tweets
[TS]
◼
►
i love to communicate in a hundred and
[TS]
◼
►
forty characters but when somebody says
[TS]
◼
►
what's your solution to the housing
[TS]
◼
►
problem huh to give them a hundred and
[TS]
◼
►
forty character response is an athlete
[TS]
◼
►
to me right i want to talk about how the
[TS]
◼
►
housing problem is too complicated to
[TS]
◼
►
solve with the tweet but and they are
[TS]
◼
►
receptive to hearing that but they want
[TS]
◼
►
to hear the tweet also yeah and so that
[TS]
◼
►
has been you know I've been talking to a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of experts and everybody is you know
[TS]
◼
►
there's they're the people that i'm
[TS]
◼
►
talking to that were the most dubious
[TS]
◼
►
about it are starting to realize like oh
[TS]
◼
►
this is possible and make obviously i'm
[TS]
◼
►
reading and learning by leaps and bounds
[TS]
◼
►
and so I do it every week encounter a
[TS]
◼
►
kind of moment where it's like I am
[TS]
◼
►
learning and up an entirely new
[TS]
◼
►
profession and also the language of it
[TS]
◼
►
so it's like I'm it's like i'm studying
[TS]
◼
►
engineering and I'm also learning all
[TS]
◼
►
day there was very well put right
[TS]
◼
►
because they're because my engine
[TS]
◼
►
in schools in France yeah and lakes and
[TS]
◼
►
like I I'm enjoying every step of that
[TS]
◼
►
process and there are lots of places
[TS]
◼
►
along the way where where I realized
[TS]
◼
►
that the culture in seattle politics
[TS]
◼
►
especially is traditionally very
[TS]
◼
►
incremental there's a lot of lip service
[TS]
◼
►
liberalism where people are just like
[TS]
◼
►
course i'm a liberal look at this I
[TS]
◼
►
voted for this I voted for that it's
[TS]
◼
►
like right none of those were
[TS]
◼
►
imaginative you never stuck your neck
[TS]
◼
►
out no one ever took a risk it's just
[TS]
◼
►
you're just plodding along do it's
[TS]
◼
►
interesting it's almost like being a
[TS]
◼
►
YouTube fan we go I've always been a
[TS]
◼
►
huge fan i remember liking them a lot
[TS]
◼
►
and never occurred to me to not be a
[TS]
◼
►
youtube fan or to really question you
[TS]
◼
►
know what I mean when I got back on
[TS]
◼
►
youtube but it's like you start to think
[TS]
◼
►
of yourself as a long time before I want
[TS]
◼
►
i'm still I think i would personally
[TS]
◼
►
like the guys in rem but i don't know
[TS]
◼
►
that many of their music like I used to
[TS]
◼
►
be like well the date is the date
[TS]
◼
►
Matthew story right now that's at some
[TS]
◼
►
points a long long time ago
[TS]
◼
►
gather round children the first time you
[TS]
◼
►
heard the first time people heard a Dave
[TS]
◼
►
Matthews song they're like huh that's an
[TS]
◼
►
interesting vocal style and that's an
[TS]
◼
►
interesting song or two and he built a a
[TS]
◼
►
massive cultural movement by not ever
[TS]
◼
►
changing that even a little bit who
[TS]
◼
►
write he never went he never picked up
[TS]
◼
►
an electric guitar he never made a scar
[TS]
◼
►
record he never he never changed his
[TS]
◼
►
name and put on a and animated and grew
[TS]
◼
►
a soul patch and made a grunge album
[TS]
◼
►
that was he never forgot about that
[TS]
◼
►
you know what I mean like a like Taylor
[TS]
◼
►
Swift will use to be a country star
[TS]
◼
►
she's not anymore nobody even remembers
[TS]
◼
►
that she was really limited but but a
[TS]
◼
►
Dave Matthews just keeps on keeping on
[TS]
◼
►
and i don't know how many records he's
[TS]
◼
►
made and I don't know if you could take
[TS]
◼
►
if you took a song off the latest one
[TS]
◼
►
and it's off the first one and put them
[TS]
◼
►
back to back i think they would sound
[TS]
◼
►
like they belong in the same not only in
[TS]
◼
►
the same candidate on the same album
[TS]
◼
►
to your point though and I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
anything about Dave Matthews I don't
[TS]
◼
►
mean to sound like I'm disparaging it i
[TS]
◼
►
just know he's got that big file
[TS]
◼
►
unemployment goes yeah but-but-but in
[TS]
◼
►
your analogy I think you're onto this
[TS]
◼
►
does something interesting which is you
[TS]
◼
►
say like well I i never really paused to
[TS]
◼
►
the one who like I was saying I really
[TS]
◼
►
paused at any point to consider how much
[TS]
◼
►
I really am still a fan but whatever of
[TS]
◼
►
old stuff for the new stuff but I also
[TS]
◼
►
that really that ultimately means that i
[TS]
◼
►
have not fully processed the new
[TS]
◼
►
information in order to realize that I'm
[TS]
◼
►
actually way more into it or that i'm
[TS]
◼
►
actually i may be thinking i should be
[TS]
◼
►
able to listen to someone else because
[TS]
◼
►
it's very comfortable very comfortable
[TS]
◼
►
to say like oh this is I have every
[TS]
◼
►
confidence that I'm a sloan family I
[TS]
◼
►
haven't listened to that many new Sloan
[TS]
◼
►
albums and been super into them since
[TS]
◼
►
like 2001 yeah it's honestly I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
again there's always that like cheap
[TS]
◼
►
trick they've got a great song on every
[TS]
◼
►
record but I hadn't been bananas over a
[TS]
◼
►
new album of theirs in a long time and
[TS]
◼
►
even when I kinda IE i was still kinda
[TS]
◼
►
like I'm really into Sloan so i must
[TS]
◼
►
love this record even if I didn't and
[TS]
◼
►
p.m. at at that is exactly what happens
[TS]
◼
►
to people in their political process
[TS]
◼
►
they're like this is how it works
[TS]
◼
►
this is the tempo at which it moves
[TS]
◼
►
these are the people to whom we entrust
[TS]
◼
►
this job and so change cannot possibly
[TS]
◼
►
come any faster than this
[TS]
◼
►
obviously these projects take years and
[TS]
◼
►
years of contentious you know budget
[TS]
◼
►
disagreements to even begin and and we
[TS]
◼
►
just sort of settle into this like well
[TS]
◼
►
this is I mean I've been a a business
[TS]
◼
►
loan fan for years and I'm just I guess
[TS]
◼
►
I'm still Sloan fan like the that
[TS]
◼
►
there's no the the energy that is
[TS]
◼
►
required of you as a fan or as a citizen
[TS]
◼
►
just sort of herbs and you just you just
[TS]
◼
►
coast and then every once in a while
[TS]
◼
►
something comes along and forces you to
[TS]
◼
►
to get excited or really makes
[TS]
◼
►
everything different all of a sudden
[TS]
◼
►
right and you know either make that
[TS]
◼
►
transition or you don't
[TS]
◼
►
but also with the width and some private
[TS]
◼
►
stating the obvious but also with with
[TS]
◼
►
the political part of what you're
[TS]
◼
►
describing just to put a slightly finer
[TS]
◼
►
point on it it is you're talking about
[TS]
◼
►
the difference between how you like to
[TS]
◼
►
think about yours
[TS]
◼
►
self versus how you think people should
[TS]
◼
►
cover which are so different it's one
[TS]
◼
►
thing to go you know I I don't know I've
[TS]
◼
►
always considered myself in rem families
[TS]
◼
►
to buy the shirts like that doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
really have like a huge impact but it's
[TS]
◼
►
just there's something that's so
[TS]
◼
►
comforting about night I'm the sort of
[TS]
◼
►
person I'm a Dave Matthews sort of
[TS]
◼
►
person I'm not a metallica sort of
[TS]
◼
►
person or whatever and i think but but
[TS]
◼
►
you know I'm saying like it isn't like
[TS]
◼
►
you're really pausing to think about on
[TS]
◼
►
the one hand like do I really like their
[TS]
◼
►
new stuff but maybe maybe further to the
[TS]
◼
►
point like do I really like their old
[TS]
◼
►
stuff that much still is that okay like
[TS]
◼
►
do you really want the Pixies to reunite
[TS]
◼
►
because the Pixies today are going to
[TS]
◼
►
make MIT Pixies are going to make music
[TS]
◼
►
that's very different probably and if
[TS]
◼
►
it's not then is that leap forward for
[TS]
◼
►
them when Rush started changing i got
[TS]
◼
►
really pissed when they are subdivisions
[TS]
◼
►
I was like this is not what rush it
[TS]
◼
►
sound like roll the bones and so you
[TS]
◼
►
become that guy like me in rem like who
[TS]
◼
►
really liked everything to live for the
[TS]
◼
►
letters pageant you know and that's what
[TS]
◼
►
and I think with you know with
[TS]
◼
►
government like there's a there's a real
[TS]
◼
►
tendency for people to say of course I
[TS]
◼
►
believe that you know of course I
[TS]
◼
►
believe x of course I believe that that
[TS]
◼
►
we should house the homeless or of
[TS]
◼
►
course I believe that we should regulate
[TS]
◼
►
the banks or of course I believe you
[TS]
◼
►
know of course but it's very hard to do
[TS]
◼
►
those things got that of course has so
[TS]
◼
►
much wrapped up in if you really think
[TS]
◼
►
about it yeah right it's really it's
[TS]
◼
►
really powerful in a not very good way
[TS]
◼
►
of course of course i'd love to change
[TS]
◼
►
like he said of course i'd love to
[TS]
◼
►
change this industry right call me back
[TS]
◼
►
if you've ever got something better for
[TS]
◼
►
a TV show exactly right of is not of
[TS]
◼
►
course it's not of course enough that
[TS]
◼
►
i'm actually going to invest in it its
[TS]
◼
►
of course enough that agrees with my
[TS]
◼
►
general compartment about life right of
[TS]
◼
►
course black lives matter but boy you
[TS]
◼
►
know well what what are they really
[TS]
◼
►
asking John all lives matter a right and
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's just like that of course
[TS]
◼
►
allows people to say of course i'm a
[TS]
◼
►
liberal or of course I'm a a politically
[TS]
◼
►
active or of course it makes you sound
[TS]
◼
►
main reason and and realistic that's
[TS]
◼
►
right really sound realistic as you're
[TS]
◼
►
not going well you know because again we
[TS]
◼
►
were you always almost always talking
[TS]
◼
►
about your talk about a shifter and
[TS]
◼
►
attention or you're talking about a
[TS]
◼
►
change in not priorities but sacrifice
[TS]
◼
►
like what are we willing to spend on
[TS]
◼
►
this in order to get this thing made
[TS]
◼
►
what do we not spend money and time on
[TS]
◼
►
which is a huge difference between like
[TS]
◼
►
an ideal world we'd all get to live in
[TS]
◼
►
cosplay Pinocchio or whatever like you
[TS]
◼
►
come up with these these bananas things
[TS]
◼
►
and these and and all the saner heads
[TS]
◼
►
all the people who are like well now
[TS]
◼
►
hold on just a second there's a whole
[TS]
◼
►
you know there's a budgeting process and
[TS]
◼
►
you know I know this is going to be too
[TS]
◼
►
disruptive you know we can't even if
[TS]
◼
►
there are aliens living under the Arctic
[TS]
◼
►
Ocean and they are controlling our
[TS]
◼
►
one-world government can't tell
[TS]
◼
►
everybody about it we have to go slow
[TS]
◼
►
it would freak people out and even if
[TS]
◼
►
that's maybe a bad example as a gift was
[TS]
◼
►
speaking as a canada is it is it haha i
[TS]
◼
►
sound very realistic to me but the you
[TS]
◼
►
know that that idea not the idea but the
[TS]
◼
►
pose of of course i agree with you but I
[TS]
◼
►
am scene and we need to go slowly like
[TS]
◼
►
you're talking like you're talking to a
[TS]
◼
►
child and that is so much of what gets
[TS]
◼
►
done so much of the politics at the
[TS]
◼
►
local level at the at the national level
[TS]
◼
►
is is done in that in that voice of like
[TS]
◼
►
it would it's gonna be like to really
[TS]
◼
►
reform the banks is going to be too hard
[TS]
◼
►
it just is so of course i want to call
[TS]
◼
►
me back when you have a dumber idea for
[TS]
◼
►
a television show and he gotta take your
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes sometimes you have to say no
[TS]
◼
►
fuck you like it's and at you know
[TS]
◼
►
follow me to the kid c and the and the
[TS]
◼
►
excitement of me of running for office
[TS]
◼
►
right now is that
[TS]
◼
►
it feels it feels like this is that the
[TS]
◼
►
time in so many levels to just say no no
[TS]
◼
►
I mean I i said this the other day
[TS]
◼
►
leaving my house though the market has
[TS]
◼
►
informed me that my house which was 10
[TS]
◼
►
years ago worth 200 thousand dollars and
[TS]
◼
►
then seven years ago was worth four
[TS]
◼
►
hundred thousand dollars and then five
[TS]
◼
►
years ago was worth 200 thousand dollars
[TS]
◼
►
again and now it's worth four hundred
[TS]
◼
►
thousand dollars again and you're
[TS]
◼
►
telling me that that is like the
[TS]
◼
►
sensible a like the market is the
[TS]
◼
►
adjudicator a lot obviously you've been
[TS]
◼
►
doing something right haha you've added
[TS]
◼
►
that value just by being there there I
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't really smart and that and the
[TS]
◼
►
house with didn't have any value and
[TS]
◼
►
then add a lot of don't get a while
[TS]
◼
►
there around 2008 you're really fucking
[TS]
◼
►
stupid but now you've got a wire get
[TS]
◼
►
John you are you gotta be super smart
[TS]
◼
►
now and it's basically like I'm like
[TS]
◼
►
playing roulette and that is what but
[TS]
◼
►
none of us and we all go like that's
[TS]
◼
►
crazy but what can you do about it
[TS]
◼
►
it's the market it's that it is the
[TS]
◼
►
churches are one true God and the market
[TS]
◼
►
just tells us and then we end the market
[TS]
◼
►
isn't something that's not one guy
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's the whole it's everybody and
[TS]
◼
►
we just all decide and the feeling is
[TS]
◼
►
that you're not naive you're you you're
[TS]
◼
►
you're not naive enough to I don't think
[TS]
◼
►
your it would take a lot of naivete to
[TS]
◼
►
go I'm gonna come in and shake
[TS]
◼
►
everything up and it'll be really easy
[TS]
◼
►
and then how do you know what's your
[TS]
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internal barometer for knowing which
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furniture can still be moved around
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which which shouldn't be tampered with
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and how do you decide between five
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things that could change potentially
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that's a big question pick whatever part
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you want but you know it seems like to
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go into this you don't be a dummy
[TS]
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you don't just going to go all you know
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I assume that i can change the entire
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way politics works right what are the
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parts where you go
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I'm just gonna have to i'm just gonna
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have to live with that because that's
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that part is not going to change
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I mean at every step of the way they are
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vested interests and there are people
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that are going to say you can't do that
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and there's and the thing is it when you
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talk about a city government right
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there the city is also inside of a
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county and the county is inside of a
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state and the state is inside of a of
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the country and all of those other
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jurisdictions also have laws that apply
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in effect the city and you can't just
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say like i'm going to change the state
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law out stuff that's going to happen
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above your pay grade
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you know where where where initially
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when i first started talking about the
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police I was like what the police should
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live in the neighborhoods they police
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that seems like a no-brainer that's kind
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of like the old times right when the guy
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in Chicago swing is billy club walking
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down the street in it in his own
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well then i started reading up on and I
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learned a few things one the state of
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Washington prohibits municipalities from
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requiring that the their officers live
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in their neighborhood you're kidding
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no because that was there was a time
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when the police union said that's unfair
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and you know and some of those cases
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probably went all the way to the Supreme
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Court you can't force people to live a
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certain place i had a conversation the
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other day with a dats cool really cool
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guy really cool kids they seem at the
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comic store all the time they're they're
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very cool and he just kind of offered up
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out of nowhere that oh no I we know I
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would never he's like I work in Xyz city
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I live in San Francisco like I would use
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your cop cop living in the same town
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that he works in it was kind of a
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spider-man thing it's like it wouldn't
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be safe he feels like it's not safe to
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live where you work right and that have
[TS]
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you heard that I think that's very
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that's crazy on the face of it but I but
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what happened was the police said look
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we can't we're not making very much
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money and we can't afford to live in the
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in the city or you know there are a lot
[TS]
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of arguments why you can't say if you
[TS]
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want to if you want to work here you
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have to live in this neighborhood or
[TS]
◼
►
something so but the state but that but
[TS]
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they took that to the state the state
[TS]
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made a loss so now the city can't
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require that well then i started reading
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you know reading up on the topic turns
[TS]
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out they've done studies of a of lots of
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municipalities some of them do have
[TS]
◼
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rules that the police have to live in
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►
some of them don't and the cities that
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have that require their police to live
[TS]
◼
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in the city do not have any better
[TS]
◼
►
police outcomes in some cases too
[TS]
◼
►
radically worse police outcome oh
[TS]
◼
►
interesting wow what it turned out was
[TS]
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►
that the biggest factor for improving
[TS]
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your police is high-quality training of
[TS]
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►
your police ideally in a transparent
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►
glass building in the middle of town
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►
right without exercise your land that's
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►
right and then they run through the
[TS]
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►
streets in a sweat say police trainee
[TS]
◼
►
and they're sweeping sweeping sweeping
[TS]
◼
►
but but the but you know height right
[TS]
◼
►
high quality training is where is where
[TS]
◼
►
you get good police and then you go oh
[TS]
◼
►
duh right of course high-quality
[TS]
◼
►
training it was matter where they live
[TS]
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►
if they're done well trained
[TS]
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►
that's right and so you know the
[TS]
◼
►
evilution of those of the evolution of
[TS]
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►
my thought at least on that matter was
[TS]
◼
►
really affected by the fact that I came
[TS]
◼
►
up against state law which was like yeah
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►
well we've already we've already been
[TS]
◼
►
through this and if you want to go to
[TS]
◼
►
the state if you want to if you want to
[TS]
◼
►
propose a law and take it to the state
[TS]
◼
►
and say we need to require the police to
[TS]
◼
►
live in our cities you can go down that
[TS]
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►
rabbit hole and if you win you win and
[TS]
◼
►
if you lose you lose but our what do you
[TS]
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►
want do you want the symbolic victory of
[TS]
◼
►
rat do you want to be able to say that I
[TS]
◼
►
believe that that is going to work or or
[TS]
◼
►
or its first all that sounds very wise
[TS]
◼
►
but it's also like you're like oh well
[TS]
◼
►
you know guys I came back to think from
[TS]
◼
►
a couple weeks ago I can't paint on this
[TS]
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►
like this is this is a real tentpole of
[TS]
◼
►
my campaign I can't change even my mind
[TS]
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►
about this right but a little my
[TS]
◼
►
dedication it doesn't matter what is
[TS]
◼
►
right or wrong this is why I'm here i
[TS]
◼
►
can read 25 studies about a thing but
[TS]
◼
►
since I've gone out and said this
[TS]
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►
already I can't change my mind on this
[TS]
◼
►
going to make me look like a waffle and
[TS]
◼
►
then that case expertise is getting in
[TS]
◼
►
well yeah and the and here's gonna draw
[TS]
◼
►
another if your schedule and the
[TS]
◼
►
expectation that we have that
[TS]
◼
►
politicians can't publicly change their
[TS]
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►
mind and say I read some things I talked
[TS]
◼
►
to some people that are smarter than me
[TS]
◼
►
about this now i have a different
[TS]
◼
►
opinion about it and the new thing is
[TS]
◼
►
actually within our ability to do which
[TS]
◼
►
is to which is to require that our
[TS]
◼
►
police be trained at a high level and
[TS]
◼
►
that is measurable
[TS]
◼
►
and it doesn't require that we that we
[TS]
◼
►
change state laws what it does requires
[TS]
◼
►
that all the people out there who are
[TS]
◼
►
chanting force the police to live in our
[TS]
◼
►
neighborhoods you have to now convince
[TS]
◼
►
them who were formerly your allies and
[TS]
◼
►
you have every reason to believe that
[TS]
◼
►
you've been corrupted by exposure to the
[TS]
◼
►
elements that made that impossible in
[TS]
◼
►
the past this one and so you go back to
[TS]
◼
►
your original constituents to do you say
[TS]
◼
►
look I guys i've learned some stuff I'd
[TS]
◼
►
like you to read these things and
[TS]
◼
►
they're like they feel like you're a
[TS]
◼
►
sellout a trainer and you're like oh i
[TS]
◼
►
know i am i what what I want is a better
[TS]
◼
►
police department right same thing you
[TS]
◼
►
want but now you've you know now you've
[TS]
◼
►
crossed the spiritual line of
[TS]
◼
►
challenging the thing that you all used
[TS]
◼
►
to agree just sounded like the solution
[TS]
◼
►
so that that process is like a process
[TS]
◼
►
of maturation that requires that you
[TS]
◼
►
have some integrity inside and a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
people the clarity also the clarity of
[TS]
◼
►
making make sure you fully understand it
[TS]
◼
►
gets its good for you because you go
[TS]
◼
►
that's I can learn anything and that was
[TS]
◼
►
good but also have to really clarify the
[TS]
◼
►
problem statement like you know I mean
[TS]
◼
►
the way to frame that to yourself and to
[TS]
◼
►
others will say like well you know it
[TS]
◼
►
still matters for us to have a police
[TS]
◼
►
force that does these following things
[TS]
◼
►
and I've learned a thing here and what
[TS]
◼
►
you discover is that some people what
[TS]
◼
►
they really just want to do is punish
[TS]
◼
►
the police or punish the developers or
[TS]
◼
►
punish the banks and when you come you
[TS]
◼
►
come back and you're like I looked into
[TS]
◼
►
this more and it turns out that this
[TS]
◼
►
thing that we thought was gonna really
[TS]
◼
►
help us is like not as good a case as
[TS]
◼
►
this other thing and it's a nightmare to
[TS]
◼
►
administer yeah but people are like that
[TS]
◼
►
even though it doesn't work and is a
[TS]
◼
►
nightmare to administer it is really
[TS]
◼
►
expensive it punishes them more and
[TS]
◼
►
that's what I want it turns out what I
[TS]
◼
►
want is to shame and punish the book of
[TS]
◼
►
the people that I think are the bad
[TS]
◼
►
people thinking about you get so much
[TS]
◼
►
attraction with people in certain
[TS]
◼
►
quarters but that approach
[TS]
◼
►
well I know that that's a
[TS]
◼
►
typically who runs for public office of
[TS]
◼
►
the people that stand up and say I am so
[TS]
◼
►
mad at the cement contractors big cement
[TS]
◼
►
fucking cement contractors are pouring
[TS]
◼
►
shitty cement and we are going to punish
[TS]
◼
►
them and the cement contractors are like
[TS]
◼
►
well you know actually what we we like
[TS]
◼
►
to pour get some into it's just the the
[TS]
◼
►
contract stipulated that and they're
[TS]
◼
►
just like shut up use contractors you're
[TS]
◼
►
gonna suck a tuba cement on my watch
[TS]
◼
►
when I'm the Big Cheese around here and
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and then you get city government
[TS]
◼
►
where those you know those people go
[TS]
◼
►
into office that's why you have all
[TS]
◼
►
those conversations with people where
[TS]
◼
►
they cut you know it's that Mitt Romney
[TS]
◼
►
and the forty-six percent or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
his gaffe was when he gets around people
[TS]
◼
►
that he thinks he can talk to ya all of
[TS]
◼
►
a sudden he's like all right we all know
[TS]
◼
►
the deal right right right and that
[TS]
◼
►
whole as soon as you are sitting in
[TS]
◼
►
office in here and you're talking to
[TS]
◼
►
some people like with the Clinton thumb
[TS]
◼
►
pointing at them with the Clintons I'm
[TS]
◼
►
going we need the proper number and then
[TS]
◼
►
another group of people you're like
[TS]
◼
►
really leaning in and casually sprint
[TS]
◼
►
you know the real deal here right right
[TS]
◼
►
alien no attention to the thumb living
[TS]
◼
►
under the Arctic ice cap and they're
[TS]
◼
►
running our government through and child
[TS]
◼
►
trails but we're not going to say that
[TS]
◼
►
to people and it's like all sorry that
[TS]
◼
►
the bus boy was filming the whole thing
[TS]
◼
►
and what up get no I believe my city
[TS]
◼
►
council candidacy believes that we
[TS]
◼
►
as the question member like your answer
[TS]