Roderick on the Line

Ep. 159: "The Climbing"


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  hello hi John [TS]

  hi Merlin how's it going but you're [TS]

  using your public radio voice John i'm [TS]

  using my public radio voice boom [TS]

  you can hear it i think i first heard [TS]

  Ira Glass discuss the way that on public [TS]

  radio you speak in this tone and [TS]

  occasionally emphasize a strange word up [TS]

  his you know because he's got the [TS]

  hourglass ways but then he does the the [TS]

  like you know all things considered [TS]

  voice yeah where something like every [TS]

  third word is emphasized for reasons [TS]

  that are not entirely clear a strange [TS]

  game [TS]

  dr. Walton the only winning move is not [TS]

  to play [TS]

  I'm Robert Siegel where we do we kid [TS]

  don't we [TS]

  yeah this is a guy i like them I like [TS]

  the way you're using into this episode [TS]

  it's just feels chill i was it just your [TS]

  year chill i feel pretty chill maybe we [TS]

  should try to do the whole episode this [TS]

  way just to think that we have that a [TS]

  move that much children our children's [TS]

  ER whar's like a gentleman like as you [TS]

  do it as you do [TS]

  oh my god entire I just karma tired are [TS]

  you [TS]

  I am I just it's a roof boring point [TS]

  weekend no idea how happy fathers day [TS]

  yeah thanks my father's day a my kid [TS]

  just dissed me all day [TS]

  that's so it's just like I had to harken [TS]

  back I'm sure to all the all the fathers [TS]

  days that I mean you know I think I was [TS]

  a pretty dutiful kid about that stuff [TS]

  like if it was fathers day I i [TS]

  understood that my job was to celebrate [TS]

  Father's Day which to the cherry face so [TS]

  I you know I fell on my sword a lot as a [TS]

  kid in order to grease the wheels make [TS]

  the Machine keep running smoothly [TS]

  uh-huh I wasn't somebody that you know [TS]

  my sister would stand there on your [TS]

  birthday and just tell you exactly what [TS]

  she thought about yeah but I wasn't that [TS]

  kind of guy on your birthday I [TS]

  understood that the expectation was that [TS]

  this was your special day [TS]

  yeah i think also it was partly days we [TS]

  were coming up in where people didn't [TS]

  respect their parents like they're [TS]

  supposed to but it was still like one of [TS]

  the days that you were supposed to act [TS]

  like it was the fifties even think [TS]

  that's right thanks giving a valentine's [TS]

  day even you're just supposed to you're [TS]

  supposed to shape up and spit comb your [TS]

  hair huh be a good kid for a day you [TS]

  bring your father slippers and if he [TS]

  doesn't have slippers she makes them out [TS]

  of paper [TS]

  I got a great team and my family killed [TS]

  it i did not deserve any of it but it [TS]

  was well nice you know they-they-they [TS]

  adore you and and rightfully so [TS]

  yeah well it was good because I mean [TS]

  either too big bangers for for father's [TS]

  day we went out to lunch at my favorite [TS]

  restaurant which also happens to be my [TS]

  father's for me out my daughter's [TS]

  favorite restaurant really any order [TS]

  bangers my head bangers and mash [TS]

  governor and and i gotta-i gotta [TS]

  Father's Day present which like many the [TS]

  presence that I get and enjoy it was a [TS]

  kind of for the house [TS]

  oh sure but they're so yeah a big roll [TS]

  of tape request that I find a real job a [TS]

  good that the pages of more post-it [TS]

  notes where you're running out now you [TS]

  know what anything that I by the like [TS]

  States slake my thirst for all of my [TS]

  former passions in life now go directly [TS]

  my daughter if I go out if I got flax [TS]

  and about eighty dollars worth of pet [TS]

  office supplies they just disappear just [TS]

  going day I set him down on the table [TS]

  for a minute and then they're just going [TS]

  and then there's one drawing of a dog in [TS]

  every notebook and they're all just all [TS]

  over her room i got a boy you talk about [TS]

  that technology is boring i'm not gonna [TS]

  become this guy but I got a really good [TS]

  morning you know what you're familiar [TS]

  with the [TS]

  the term sous-vide you with that we're [TS]

  cooking [TS]

  where where where right by our I got [TS]

  this [TS]

  sous-vide thing that you can you attach [TS]

  it to a pot it looks like a big [TS]

  lightsaber and it anything you put your [TS]

  food in a bag in the air out and it [TS]

  cooks it flawlessly flawlessly [TS]

  this is something you should look at you [TS]

  put a stake in a bag you drop it in this [TS]

  water you see make this a hundred 29 [TS]

  degrees exactly hundred twenty degrees [TS]

  perfectly cooked and you have to do [TS]

  anything you don't have to do it on the [TS]

  stove since you just plug it in [TS]

  somewhere [TS]

  what color is it though that the the [TS]

  food [TS]

  yeah okay I can't imagine boiling it in [TS]

  a bag is some kind of like delicious [TS]

  gives it a nice like crusty no no but [TS]

  what you do is you you doing the [TS]

  sous-vide it takes an hour hour and a [TS]

  half and take it out and the thing is if [TS]

  you feel like it for two hours it [TS]

  wouldn't cook more because it stops at [TS]

  the temperature you tell it it's really [TS]

  cool and then you sear it on the on the [TS]

  range or power you like it [TS]

  IC seem so there's a second step third [TS]

  step or whatever you then you then sear [TS]

  it you want to see her otherwise it's [TS]

  kinda like a boiled egg [TS]

  well not everyone's still delicious and [TS]

  you can you can do stuff to anyway I was [TS]

  very excited because i really wanted [TS]

  that it's not going to what about for [TS]

  myself but now I've already as I've seen [TS]

  all the things [TS]

  yeah everybody's gonna be huh yep and we [TS]

  went to that brazilian steak place I [TS]

  like fur for lunch so we didn't we [TS]

  didn't really need more meat but look at [TS]

  day [TS]

  well glad you had a good day yeah but [TS]

  your kid was dissing you [TS]

  oh yeah well and you know as you as you [TS]

  said at the beginning of this episode [TS]

  all of five and a half minutes ago over [TS]

  um it's minutes after the hour [TS]

  I'm all his tired and I don't know what [TS]

  to do about it i think that you know I [TS]

  think that did you see that did you see [TS]

  the getty air who died the other day in [TS]

  his in his Hollywood mansion know you [TS]

  know one of the Gettys one of the one of [TS]

  the grandsons of jay paul Getty or the [TS]

  great grandsons and they're all riches [TS]

  sin and some of them have done things [TS]

  like start [TS]

  a photo sharing companies and some of [TS]

  them just sort of sit around and do [TS]

  methamphetamines and this getty air i [TS]

  think is about our age [TS]

  yeah and he died mysteriously but but [TS]

  also not mysteriously because he was he [TS]

  had a toxic level of meth in his body [TS]

  man and and yet you know I don't think [TS]

  Mikey od'd as much as it just all caught [TS]

  up with them [TS]

  intestinal hemorrhage intestinal camera [TS]

  driver huh [TS]

  but you realize like there's that [TS]

  there's one version of being tired all [TS]

  the time that you try to counteract with [TS]

  go fast pills and I know a lot of people [TS]

  get addicted to various kinds of speed [TS]

  because they just need that just a [TS]

  little bit of like come on just you know [TS]

  like I often feel like I was made by us [TS]

  somewhat neglectful craftsman who did [TS]

  not [TS]

  carburetor me quite correctly and [TS]

  there's a there's some turbo lag in [TS]

  because i am a turbo model but it's sort [TS]

  of an early turbo it takes awhile to [TS]

  spool up and then all of a sudden it's [TS]

  there [TS]

  the powers they're better at this and I [TS]

  just I keep thinking that what i need is [TS]

  like a little shot of of you know [TS]

  carburetor those little shot of like [TS]

  ether in my carbs huh [TS]

  every day just to get going at a normal [TS]

  level not to be as übermensch not to go [TS]

  like disco dancing but just a little [TS]

  thing that like would just get me over [TS]

  the hump right ticket your engine [TS]

  started [TS]

  yeah and caught you know coffee sort of [TS]

  doesn't quite perform this role and and [TS]

  because i am a man on drug user [TS]

  I'm fortunate enough not to be able to [TS]

  consider [TS]

  they're all the many different options [TS]

  of super person drugs that all the other [TS]

  people in the world resort to so i just [TS]

  have to sit and think that I i keep [TS]

  considering this one post-it note that's [TS]

  now yellowed around the edges that says [TS]

  eat less eat better and exercise [TS]

  oh yeah and meditate and I look at that [TS]

  post-it note every day and I go yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah but isn't there something [TS]

  isn't her vitamin b12 shot or something [TS]

  and you imagine if you were rich person [TS]

  if you were if you were a rich person [TS]

  who felt like Barry that their [TS]

  contribution was crucial right i mean if [TS]

  you're a getty air you probably imagine [TS]

  that your contribution to this day is is [TS]

  highly valued it's more important than [TS]

  average person's contribution even just [TS]

  like all the day-to-day like accounts [TS]

  and correspondents kind of me i'm going [TS]

  to me thinking that this is royalty or [TS]

  something but just like the day-to-day [TS]

  stuff like people going to notice if [TS]

  you're if you're not on point [TS]

  yeah it's like that it's like the guy in [TS]

  the foxcatcher yeah exactly what I was [TS]

  just thinking that has John husband [TS]

  called him Fox wrestler [TS]

  oh uh weird movie [TS]

  yeah a little fox wrestler guy and you [TS]

  know here's this guy who's who's [TS]

  obviously very troubled and not even one [TS]

  hundred percent all marbles accounted [TS]

  for but he's got he's got 15 people [TS]

  working for him and his daily [TS]

  correspondence is being catalog [TS]

  somewhere so anyway eat let's eat better [TS]

  exercise meditate but but last night I [TS]

  had a root beer float which is the [TS]

  opposite of eat better exercise and [TS]

  meditate although there's a meditative [TS]

  quality to a root beer float dommage the [TS]

  Lord of the Rings ice I assume I've [TS]

  started anything i'm just calling second [TS]

  dinner so sometimes i'm out of sync [TS]

  first of all as you know my family [TS]

  snacks my family has never set down to [TS]

  an actual meal they just delete things [TS]

  out of bags all day whereas i like to [TS]

  sit down and eat and I'm the weirdo in [TS]

  that case sometimes i'll have like a [TS]

  light snack like dinner with my family [TS]

  and then mentor best friend [TS]

  I'm thinking well don't really have time [TS]

  to watch the rest of this wrestling [TS]

  documentary and then I should really [TS]

  should get to bed last night i'm a [TS]

  corned beef hash [TS]

  oh you and I are two birds of a feather [TS]

  I was laying in bed i was as at [TS]

  eleven-fifteen and we can be patched i [TS]

  was in bed and had already gone to sleep [TS]

  and woke up because in my dream I [TS]

  started dreaming about the greys down [TS]

  now and then and then dreaming bad i [TS]

  don't remember whether I was dreaming [TS]

  that that the possum that lives in my [TS]

  attic wasn't a possum but was really [TS]

  like a little gray that had just been [TS]

  living in the attic for the last six [TS]

  months or what it was but I started to i [TS]

  started to dream about the greys and [TS]

  then of course my room is populated with [TS]

  them [TS]

  beeping at me from behind things and so [TS]

  I woke up out of a dead sleep and i was [TS]

  like huh it was about 12 30 because now [TS]

  i am a person that goes to bed before 12 [TS]

  30 i'm a person that goes to bed long [TS]

  enough for 1230 that i can go to sleep [TS]

  have a dream about the greys and still [TS]

  wake up by twelve-thirty well that's the [TS]

  worst and so I went downstairs and I ate [TS]

  a hot link and like half a pound of [TS]

  brisket and did a crossword puzzle and [TS]

  then by 1 30 i mean i can tell you [TS]

  that's the best way to get back to sleep [TS]

  appleone brisket I was like full of hot [TS]

  link and brisket and halfway through the [TS]

  sunday crossword puzzles i was like what [TS]

  am i doing [TS]

  Jesus Christ there aren't Gray's living [TS]

  in your attic go back to sleep and so I [TS]

  went back to sleep full of that food and [TS]

  now here I am talking to you and you [TS]

  talking to me and we are both still full [TS]

  of that food i presume [TS]

  oh no this is your you you're absolutely [TS]

  dead on i mean i made so another dingus [TS]

  that we have in the kitchen that we like [TS]

  to use is this like a slow cooker and [TS]

  mrs. so you put in you by E by the giant [TS]

  corn beef in a bag comes with a little [TS]

  you know grinding or whatever comes in a [TS]

  little it's got a little thing with the [TS]

  seeds and stuff you put that in all you [TS]

  do is you drop that in this pot and [TS]

  cover with water you put the lid on and [TS]

  cook on low for 10 hours when it comes [TS]

  out you've got [TS]

  a giant-ass corned beef brisket mm and [TS]

  so that I took about half of that but [TS]

  probably about at least at least two [TS]

  pounds of cooked brisket I i cooked in a [TS]

  giant giant panda thought to myself this [TS]

  is great [TS]

  I'll have corned beef four days four [TS]

  days you get this if that the guy I was [TS]

  thinking I should have used a larger pan [TS]

  we don't have a larger pan we need a [TS]

  larger pan to accommodate the amount of [TS]

  corned beef i'm making it i'm going to [TS]

  enjoy for it [TS]

  probably the one week's time after I was [TS]

  done with my seconds on second dinner I [TS]

  i had about Z filled half of a quart [TS]

  ziploc bag all gone [TS]

  yeah yeah what I i was thinking about [TS]

  this the other day that that the one [TS]

  thing that people of all races creeds [TS]

  religions and nationalities the one [TS]

  thing that would bring peace to the [TS]

  world is if you just gathered all the [TS]

  Warriors together and introduce the [TS]

  topic how do you best cook a brisket [TS]

  because cooking a brisket is a thing [TS]

  that I can't think of a single culture [TS]

  that doesn't have an opinion about [TS]

  cooking a brisket right I guess except [TS]

  for hindus hindus probably aren't going [TS]

  to join in that conversation but you [TS]

  know but they have an opinion which is [TS]

  to not do it to not do it right but I [TS]

  mean think about what about you put [TS]

  everybody together in room and they're [TS]

  all mad and they're all da and then it's [TS]

  like wait a minute there's that we have [TS]

  a brisket here that needs cooking and [TS]

  didn't feel quite a lot of contentious [TS]

  discussion about how to cook it but i [TS]

  think what you do in that case is you [TS]

  bring out a whole bunch of briskets and [TS]

  you say you know what let's let's [TS]

  everybody cooked their brisket the way [TS]

  they you know we'll get all the [TS]

  resources here everybody gets that gets [TS]

  their different style of of cooker and [TS]

  seasoning and you get a couple of [TS]

  assistants and then everybody cooks [TS]

  their brisket by that point the what [TS]

  everybody was mad about it would fade in [TS]

  fade like it's like Top Chef meets [TS]

  McLaughlin group you get everybody [TS]

  together and we're all gonna every every [TS]

  week we're going to cook some kind of [TS]

  food and you make it the way that you [TS]

  make it you make it the way you make who [TS]

  and then we and then we all share it and [TS]

  have a big meal together but you know [TS]

  the thing is it has i think it has to be [TS]

  a brisket because the brisket is the you [TS]

  know the brisket is the hub of the food [TS]

  wheel right i mean more than one [TS]

  potatoes [TS]

  yeah i mean what ever you ever have a [TS]

  lab like a potato in chinese food good [TS]

  point right but but you're gonna find [TS]

  some equivalent of a brisket LOL [TS]

  absolutely the guy like a clay pot or [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  yeah uh-huh so you so I think the [TS]

  brisket is the because one is what it [TS]

  was a brisket it's like a tough [TS]

  unlovable piece of meat that everybody [TS]

  has figured out in their various [TS]

  cultures much less different ways to [TS]

  soften and palatable some of it with [TS]

  sugary saw some of it with long slow see [TS]

  this is make it past the piece I'm [TS]

  saying brisket is a path to peace [TS]

  hmm damn Benjamin said something that i [TS]

  agree with aah [TS]

  we have evidence for once he says he [TS]

  says coffee for him the first cup of [TS]

  coffee gives him just enough energy to [TS]

  make the second cup of coffee [TS]

  well right but you know I get to that [TS]

  second cup of coffee feeling good and [TS]

  then like tip over into the third cup of [TS]

  coffee and I need a nap [TS]

  the animal and this is the problem with [TS]

  post-it note is that you're right [TS]

  all of our options have been exhausted [TS]

  except for the obvious and correct one [TS]

  yeah which is that it's like here's [TS]

  here's here's what here's what you're [TS]

  facing as you as you are as you walk [TS]

  slowly trudged in your slippers toward [TS]

  50 is that you know you gotta do all [TS]

  those things got quit everything you [TS]

  know you gotta start you guys are eating [TS]

  like a normal person you gotta exercise [TS]

  sleep [TS]

  basically you have to change your entire [TS]

  life into a series of extremely dull [TS]

  consistencies in order to achieve a [TS]

  baseline level of normal energy and if [TS]

  you do any of those things wrong you're [TS]

  just gonna die now you know I I realized [TS]

  something about being in your teens and [TS]

  twenties a long time ago I may have even [TS]

  realized it when I was still in my [TS]

  twenties but that is that in your teens [TS]

  and twenties you are afforded several [TS]

  opportunities to glimpse not just [TS]

  glimpse but but for a brief period [TS]

  actually [TS]

  experience the feeling of having [TS]

  achieved some level of transcendence or [TS]

  enlightenment you know when you are [TS]

  young [TS]

  uh-huh for whatever reason the book the [TS]

  course of life of Ford's you these brief [TS]

  shining explosive moments of either like [TS]

  heightened consciousness tremendous [TS]

  revelation like physical sort of [TS]

  completeness or you know like an editor [TS]

  and the first time that you do certain [TS]

  kinds of drugs the first time you have [TS]

  certain kinds of athletic experiences [TS]

  the first time you have certain kinds of [TS]

  sexual experiences you are given a [TS]

  glimpse through the cloud of what it is [TS]

  not just to see it but what is really [TS]

  like to live somewhere way up the ladder [TS]

  and so you then make the mistake of [TS]

  thinking that it was that it was that [TS]

  set of conditions or that particular [TS]

  experience and you keep going back and [TS]

  trying to duplicate that experience to [TS]

  get back to the it's not the experience [TS]

  was so great but you you were you [TS]

  arrived way up the ladder and you want [TS]

  to get back there and the the tragic [TS]

  lesson is that the only way to get up [TS]

  that ladder and stay for any length of [TS]

  time is to climate and see if the [TS]

  climbing that releases that elation and [TS]

  discovery [TS]

  it's the climbing but if you weren't [TS]

  ever you know if you were never allowed [TS]

  that that momentary turisticos you half [TS]

  an hour up the ladder you wouldn't know [TS]

  it was there you wouldn't know there was [TS]

  something to seek and so in that sense [TS]

  it makes sense that we are given that [TS]

  that little moment but the problem is [TS]

  that there isn't any way to get up that [TS]

  ladder except to climate rung by rung [TS]

  and do the work and put in the time and [TS]

  and and make the progress and yet most [TS]

  of us myself included [TS]

  you know spend [TS]

  decades trying to figure out if there's [TS]

  a little pill or some kind of five [TS]

  minutes a day exercise or some sort of [TS]

  combination of raw vegetables and no [TS]

  gluten or just to get you know just even [TS]

  to get up two rungs [TS]

  uh-huh on this endless cloud ladder and [TS]

  instead you just keep coming you just [TS]

  you wake up every day you're at the [TS]

  bottom of this thing and you look at [TS]

  that yellow post-it note that says eat [TS]

  better exercise meditate you go fucking [TS]

  come on something somebody rock music [TS]

  where are you [TS]

  yeah yeah and the other thing that's a [TS]

  yes I totally agree and there's another [TS]

  like very obvious and yet still dawning [TS]

  realization for me it's one of those [TS]

  things that's been hiding in plain sight [TS]

  for my entire life and I'm finally [TS]

  realizing and trying to get better [TS]

  accepting this and this will reveal that [TS]

  I am in fact a terrible person but [TS]

  that's part of the process of climbing [TS]

  the two step ladder you know it's I [TS]

  think one starts to realize the [TS]

  limitations of living for yourself of [TS]

  living for oneself is part of the [TS]

  problem and this may be this ties into [TS]

  one of those ericsson stages of [TS]

  development or something but but you [TS]

  know as you start to think about all of [TS]

  the things that are difficult and it's [TS]

  you know I don't know for some reason is [TS]

  going through my mind yesterday when we [TS]

  stop by safeway and the the Giants [TS]

  safely in the castro and why I had to [TS]

  exercise some serious keep moving and [TS]

  get out of the way with my kid because [TS]

  there are dozens and dozens of people in [TS]

  their twenties and thirties running [TS]

  around with bottles of wine look [TS]

  incredibly stressed out and I was saying [TS]

  honey you've got to move out of these [TS]

  were these people's way they are young [TS]

  and they want to get to a party and they [TS]

  will kill you because nothing there [TS]

  there there's such serious social [TS]

  activity self-focused social activity [TS]

  going on [TS]

  ironically enough and I was actually [TS]

  thinking like first of all I just find [TS]

  young people insufferable so much of the [TS]

  time now it's really weird I I feel like [TS]

  I when I'm not just really an old man [TS]

  I'm an old man who finds a lot of lot of [TS]

  young people insufferable because [TS]

  there's such as such a a joyful level of [TS]

  self involvement and I you know so [TS]

  anyway you can of course said that two [TS]

  of two million ways of trying to [TS]

  understand the world but you know when [TS]

  you look at something like that I hate [TS]

  to say this but you look at the exercise [TS]

  more eat better get sleep meditate all [TS]

  that kind of stuff posted notes in your [TS]

  life and you say that's that's really [TS]

  boring and not that fun especially if [TS]

  it's for you because for you for me [TS]

  we want the pill we want the the glass [TS]

  of something or the mug of something or [TS]

  the you know or the or the cyborg [TS]

  attachment that will they allow me to [TS]

  have some kind of like meaningful level [TS]

  of energy [TS]

  it's when you start thinking though you [TS]

  know what I have to really not take care [TS]

  of other people but i have to do stuff [TS]

  for other people not not like a grudging [TS]

  way but in like this is really this is [TS]

  who we all are [TS]

  this is we all have been it's just that [TS]

  in America especially if you're a white [TS]

  dude maybe you got a little bit of money [TS]

  it you can keep living in that land of I [TS]

  just do stuff for me for a really long [TS]

  time and pretty soon you're that 70 year [TS]

  old guy who's dating the 20 year old [TS]

  woman and thinking this is really still [TS]

  going great but you know it's something [TS]

  that's it's something i'm having a it's [TS]

  just purely selfish it's purely selfish [TS]

  because I've always thought of myself as [TS]

  well sure I'm great I love other people [TS]

  but like when you actually have to do [TS]

  that and you have to start changing the [TS]

  way that you do stuff in order to [TS]

  accommodate that change in your life for [TS]

  that realization then everything takes [TS]

  on a whole different tone now it's like [TS]

  well i am doing this because because [TS]

  this is what other people need out of me [TS]

  and it doesn't make it any better it it [TS]

  certainly doesn't make it more fun but [TS]

  like I guess getting the point we really [TS]

  except that is a big part of growing up [TS]

  really really growing up which is a [TS]

  piece that is still not completed i [TS]

  would say i would still just love to [TS]

  have a bunch of speed in the morning and [TS]

  then just run around but like that's not [TS]

  going to get stuff accomplished for the [TS]

  stuff that I need to do ya boy the the I [TS]

  made a list the other day of the things [TS]

  that I needed to do because not having a [TS]

  list meant that those things just kept [TS]

  I would be I'd be sitting in a state of [TS]

  you know kind of like momentary relaxed [TS]

  reflection and all of a sudden the [TS]

  kool-aid man would bash down the door [TS]

  and go oh yeah you're vespers need [TS]

  repairing got my Vespas I haven't [TS]

  thought about my vestments in six months [TS]

  and I'm time i got i'm doing another [TS]

  thing right now [TS]

  oh yeah oh yeah I know you haven't [TS]

  thought of it that's why I just broke [TS]

  your wall [TS]

  oh yeah your water pressures low gotta [TS]

  call a plumber and I'm like water [TS]

  pressure like I'm like yes for the last [TS]

  two years i have thought to myself I [TS]

  should call a plumber and get my water [TS]

  pressure a looked at but that is not a [TS]

  thing that i want to interrupt me right [TS]

  now [TS]

  oh yeah your barn is gonna collapse and [TS]

  this kool-aid man just keeps fucking [TS]

  crashing into my into my reverie and I [TS]

  don't have very much time anymore to sit [TS]

  and just like be at peace and so you [TS]

  know anxiety breathes anxiety or [TS]

  something this guy it's just it's just a [TS]

  kool-aid pitcher full of free range [TS]

  anxiety that keeps kicking down my door [TS]

  when I don't think we've ever been more [TS]

  alike than we are right now [TS]

  oh my god oh yeah we'll get it all [TS]

  together your roots still looking great [TS]

  looking at pictures of him right now is [TS]

  he's a jolly pitcher of kool-aid [TS]

  carrying another pitcher of kool-aid [TS]

  I forgot about that that's a little [TS]

  weird I never I guess I never thought of [TS]

  that [TS]

  it's a recursive home invasion little [TS]

  but anyway so I had to make a list of [TS]

  these things and then putting them on a [TS]

  piece of paper at least you know it was [TS]

  one of these lists that had like a [TS]

  subset one subset lowercase a must also [TS]

  must rid mother must decide if possible [TS]

  has at babies also now also read the [TS]

  house of positive babies [TS]

  oh god I hate that five um mês me in [TS]

  mice in the garage [TS]

  oh my god I'm like I'm trying to plan my [TS]

  daughter I'm sorry I hate putting down [TS]

  these glue traps I know they're awful [TS]

  but all we need is like a week and a [TS]

  half of not noticing this and we're [TS]

  going to be overrun with rodents you [TS]

  yeah on the road and thought goes [TS]

  through my head [TS]

  what about dry right after that after [TS]

  that that awful thing with the balcony [TS]

  broke off and berkeley objects we've got [TS]

  two major dry rot spots in my house and [TS]

  like everybody's coming out the woodwork [TS]

  all the engineers you know hopefully [TS]

  commando yeah there's like three [TS]

  different problems with that like that [TS]

  was not properly vented that's dry rot [TS]

  is too much moisture right there that's [TS]

  oh yeah that's that's a classic [TS]

  engineering problem and I like I'm I [TS]

  spend so much of my time thinking I [TS]

  wonder which classic engineering [TS]

  problems gonna get me something LOL guy [TS]

  that would have been a five-dollar [TS]

  repair don't get a new bolt in there 19 [TS]

  new house [TS]

  general remember when the guy said that [TS]

  your car needed new bushings and you [TS]

  said bushings every my timing belt [TS]

  my wife said you know really really need [TS]

  to get that time about like that now [TS]

  it's like it'll be fine Jerry would tell [TS]

  us it was that important actually Jerry [TS]

  just told us it's extremely important [TS]

  and I was 750 dollars i keep realizing [TS]

  that you know every day we're all [TS]

  hurdling at 70 + miles an hour down the [TS]

  road in cars that we all are failing to [TS]

  maintain properly like and it's just [TS]

  everytime i see a car that is over two [TS]

  years old that's driving along in the [TS]

  lane next to me your foot like how long [TS]

  before the tie rods fail on that car [TS]

  like how long before there's just some [TS]

  catastrophic out like hearing blowout [TS]

  you guys have I'm sure you must have an [TS]

  emissions test up there right at those [TS]

  you know I get and like you think about [TS]

  how many people go and they like failing [TS]

  emissions test and you're like oh my god [TS]

  like how many more things are horribly [TS]

  wrong with this thing [TS]

  how many things like especially now [TS]

  today let's be honest it's not like the [TS]

  seventies in the seventies you kind of [TS]

  had to have your car in the garage a few [TS]

  times a year just because cars was good [TS]

  and now you don't have to think about it [TS]

  you know you just don't you just drive [TS]

  around in this deathtrap [TS]

  I you know I'm i miss the the roads [TS]

  being full of old like crappy cars [TS]

  uh-huh and and the fact that all cars [TS]

  kind of look the same now is concealing [TS]

  the fact that there are a lot of old [TS]

  crappy cars on the road [TS]

  it's just that you can't tell you mean [TS]

  like it used to be in the eighties that [TS]

  if you saw a 54 Chevy that wasn't really [TS]

  pristine you knew it was an old crappy [TS]

  car and to give it a wide berth you [TS]

  swingers and comments and Ltd's and I [TS]

  think about even ladies in the late [TS]

  eighties I had in late 1980s 1988 i was [TS]

  driving a 1973 w camper my girlfriend [TS]

  because that year my girlfriend had like [TS]

  a like a 75 ltd her dad wanted to have a [TS]

  big safe car everybody I knew my friend [TS]

  Sam was driving a 66 swinger like it [TS]

  even then you would have you just see 20 [TS]

  year old cars on the road it was not [TS]

  weird [TS]

  I i did a girl that you drove a 64 [TS]

  Studebaker and then a the next girl I [TS]

  dated had a like a wasn't like a 62 and [TS]

  it was a it was like the the little [TS]

  eldorado it was the Cadillac no no I'm [TS]

  sorry el dorado one of my LOL camino it [TS]

  was the little L committed but it was [TS]

  the forward it was the little it was you [TS]

  know based on a comment [TS]

  what am I trying to say here i'm just [TS]

  having a total car brain fart which [TS]

  never happens to me it was the little [TS]

  the little 62 wagon being a little more [TS]

  like a station wagon [TS]

  no not a station wagon it was that it [TS]

  was that it was the El Camino who but [TS]

  you know the little like truck bed but a [TS]

  little short short that in its short bed [TS]

  and some somebody's listening to this [TS]

  program and they're just they're just [TS]

  disgusted with me because I'm not as you [TS]

  hang up you think of it yeah but anyway [TS]

  yeah right and they were you know they [TS]

  were just already cars they bought for [TS]

  250 bucks the thing is that there are 20 [TS]

  year old cars on the road right now but [TS]

  they just look like contemporary cars to [TS]

  me because my I just sees that then they [TS]

  all look like pregnant purposes and so [TS]

  it's just like oh there's a blob of [TS]

  metal there's a blob of metal that was [TS]

  dirtier that you notice i think you [TS]

  noticed the Delta more now that more and [TS]

  more people have cars i don't know it's [TS]

  weird because we [TS]

  the we had a 1995 volkswagen until last [TS]

  year it was fine mostly you know we was [TS]

  not in great condition but like it felt [TS]

  like such a relic maybe because I live [TS]

  in San Francisco people are rich but [TS]

  like I felt like I felt like a real [TS]

  beater [TS]

  no you don't you don't see like a [TS]

  30-year old car on the road that much [TS]

  anymore unless it's like real cherry [TS]

  well yeah but the thing is like a 94 [TS]

  volkswagen InFocus wagons all kind of [TS]

  look a little old right but I've got a [TS]

  94 lexus overall you talking about the [TS]

  ones that look like like tylenol yeah [TS]

  right if you saw nothing in the [TS]

  mid-eighties in the mid-eighties all the [TS]

  car started looking like look at like a [TS]

  like a vitamin exactly that 1984 [TS]

  Thunderbird was kind of watershed moment [TS]

  yeah yeah 84 thunderbird looks like look [TS]

  like a lozenge and from that point on if [TS]

  you take you if you go right now and you [TS]

  look up 84 thunderbird and then you look [TS]

  at 94 lexus right you will see the you [TS]

  will see that the one is modeled after [TS]

  the other and then every subsequent car [TS]

  kinda just looks like a like a newer [TS]

  iteration like if you look at a 2014 [TS]

  corolla right how people can tell them [TS]

  apart they all look the same and I and I [TS]

  and partly it is that it used to be that [TS]

  the cars the designs changed every [TS]

  couple of years and now if you get a [TS]

  good if you get us like the sebring the [TS]

  96 sebring I think that they are still [TS]

  manufacturing it it with slightly [TS]

  different sheet metal because because of [TS]

  the economies of scale of like it's like [TS]

  iphone being able to make a lot of money [TS]

  because they can be get such good deals [TS]

  on the same kind of part 1 s is that you [TS]

  get the same chassis and use it over and [TS]

  over [TS]

  it isn't people don't people you know it [TS]

  used to be that car design was a thing [TS]

  that people took enormous pride in and [TS]

  you know but i just-i I want to go back [TS]

  in time and say like if you were gonna [TS]

  make a car for 15 years [TS]

  why not make the 57 Chevy for 15 years [TS]

  why not make the galaxy 60 65 Mustang [TS]

  yeah right why not if it means those [TS]

  designs were great [TS]

  we should just we should [TS]

  be making them at some level instead of [TS]

  still be making the student 95 sebring [TS]

  rights like you're saying is that as if [TS]

  you're here you're saying it's not a [TS]

  question of like that these are the same [TS]

  thing is that the same thing it's kind [TS]

  of ugly symptoms come in and just not [TS]

  you know yeah and I'm thinking about [TS]

  like how excited people used to be when [TS]

  the new new cars would come out it's [TS]

  almost like the way people are now with [TS]

  complete like iphones or or computers or [TS]

  whatever right [TS]

  it's like though the kind of fan [TS]

  following the people do of electronic [TS]

  devices today feels like it carries [TS]

  forward from how people used to be about [TS]

  cars but yeah the car that I'm going to [TS]

  have for two years [TS]

  well I remember 11 my neighbor i had [TS]

  there's a kid down the street from me [TS]

  named Chris kills and his dad bought a [TS]

  new thunderbird when it when it first [TS]

  came out and at that point in time [TS]

  mid-eighties everybody was really into [TS]

  german cars [TS]

  uh-huh and you know the kind of [TS]

  one-upsmanship of teens can in my [TS]

  neighborhood was all about but I mean [TS]

  obviously you had a suburban because [TS]

  every his family had a suburban it's [TS]

  unless they were like pores like me but [TS]

  everybody else had a suburban at least [TS]

  one suburban but then the other car was [TS]

  going to be some kind of german car and [TS]

  Chris skills is dead but bought a [TS]

  brand-new for thunderbird and it was [TS]

  like whoa cool car kind of the last cool [TS]

  American car that you talk about the [TS]

  eighties hear ya 84 and that was but I [TS]

  mean it felt very ethicists in the same [TS]

  way that strip malls once looked [TS]

  extremely modern right it looked very [TS]

  modern very like a year [TS]

  oh it did but now that i think about it [TS]

  when I see a 94 lexus I recognize that [TS]

  it is an older model [TS]

  uh-huh but I couldn't tell you whether I [TS]

  mean I think if I saw 94 lexus drive-by [TS]

  i would say that it was a 2006 right i [TS]

  mean i just i have very big sense of of [TS]

  car design in the last 30 years because [TS]

  it's just sort of like oh yeah after the [TS]

  after nineteen ninety it just sort of [TS]

  all went just all went blah bueller but [TS]

  but you'd have to take it into the shop [TS]

  because it's just that was just the [TS]

  thing you did [TS]

  yeah and now today we had to get a [TS]

  tuneup back to know that's right because [TS]

  you didn't because they weren't chips [TS]

  for computers telling you that tell you [TS]

  when the car wasn't running right a [TS]

  light never came on the only light that [TS]

  came on was the the light that said you [TS]

  are now on fire this episode of rock on [TS]

  the line is brought to you by [TS]

  Squarespace you can learn more about [TS]

  Squarespace visiting it [TS]

  set up for your free trial account there [TS]

  guys I've been a huge fan and [TS]

  evangelists a square space for over five [TS]

  years now it's not only the place that I [TS]

  use for hosting me of my own sites and [TS]

  yes podcast including Roderick on the [TS]

  line [TS]

  it's also the first place that i [TS]

  recommend for anybody wanting to do the [TS]

  same [TS]

  Squarespace sites are professionally [TS]

  designed masterpieces they look great [TS]

  right out of the box regardless of your [TS]

  skill level because there's zero coding [TS]

  nerdery required you have nothing to do [TS]

  is just get your stuff up get it up [TS]

  gorgeous intuitive easy-to-use tools it [TS]

  takes all the pain of getting your stuff [TS]

  up [TS]

  Squarespace also has state-of-the-art [TS]

  technology powering your site that [TS]

  ensure security and stability [TS]

  Squarespace is trusted by millions of [TS]

  people and some of the most respected [TS]

  brands in the world crazy part is [TS]

  Squarespace plans start at a very [TS]

  affordable eight dollars per month and [TS]

  that price even includes a free domain [TS]

  name if you sign up for a year which you [TS]

  should totally do [TS]

  please go check these guys out until [TS]

  your friends about it I don't know [TS]

  Squarespace is perfect for every single [TS]

  person in the entire planet but I know [TS]

  it's perfect for somebody you know if [TS]

  you want to put up a site for a church [TS]

  or a group or a school get out of that [TS]

  business of having to take care of all [TS]

  this stuff let's Squarespace do it for [TS]

  you it's gonna make your friend's life [TS]

  easier it's gonna make your life easier [TS]

  it's going to get your great stuff up in [TS]

  front of people fast and solidly solidly [TS] and when you sign up for [TS]

  your free account make sure to use the [TS]

  offer code supertrain to get ten percent [TS]

  off your first purchase [TS]

  it's pretty good gig our thanks to [TS]

  squarespace for supporting Roderick on [TS]

  the line [TS]

  Squarespace build it beautiful as I was [TS]

  driving in today [TS]

  I had this strange thought i was [TS]

  listening to kxi the am radio station [TS]

  that often sends me into a reverie and I [TS]

  realized that they were playing the [TS]

  music of that my father loved and it was [TS]

  the day after father's day and I was [TS]

  getting a little bit of little bit [TS]

  emotional as I'm driving in listening to [TS]

  the big band music and then I realized [TS]

  that this isn't this isn't a real [TS]

  profound realization but we you and I [TS]

  have never lived without recorded music [TS]

  and and none of our listeners have ever [TS]

  lived a day without recorded music or [TS]

  recorded media and so so it's easy for [TS]

  us to not understand how new it is still [TS]

  right but my dad was not maybe the that [TS]

  the first generation but but but but [TS]

  very early on in terms of a generation [TS]

  that that understood that recorded media [TS]

  was that their music and their the [TS]

  things that that made up their culture [TS]

  they could listen to over and over it [TS]

  was recorded it it was there were [TS]

  original recordings right when I think [TS]

  about my dad's dad the music that he [TS]

  loved up was from 1913 and it was all [TS]

  sheet music it required that people play [TS]

  it on the piano or Hank right yeah and [TS]

  so so with just that in mind in my own [TS]

  light in my own family's life i am only [TS]

  the second generation in the whole [TS]

  history of my family to have the benefit [TS]

  of recorded music and so that means that [TS]

  i am really the first generation that [TS]

  has ever been able to listen to my [TS]

  father's music after he died [TS]

  oh right right that is you have to be [TS]

  something repertory like you'd have to [TS]

  go to like some kind of like lets us [TS]

  it's susana day in the park or something [TS]

  like that [TS]

  yeah my dad could have sat down and [TS]

  listened to his mother play you know [TS]

  like el con el condor pasa or tell her [TS]

  fat little feller with his mamie's eyes [TS]

  or whatever song was really big in 1913 [TS]

  up but he wouldn't have ever been able [TS]

  to hear the music as his father heard it [TS]

  and I can listen to the exact same [TS]

  records that my dad heard and [TS]

  experienced it through that that you [TS]

  know that first membrane of of like [TS]

  distance and and nostalgia for it i mean [TS]

  i listen to that music sitting at his [TS]

  feet and he was being nostalgic for his [TS]

  youth but it was still alive [TS]

  it was still current uh-huh and now i am [TS]

  nostalgic for his youth and I can hear [TS]

  what it sounded like [TS]

  right but like we're we're got we're [TS]

  gone into a new thing a new sort of [TS]

  unprecedented up like iteration of [TS]

  memory in human experience and as I was [TS]

  as I was puttering along and thinking [TS]

  like you know we we have when we look [TS]

  back in time we have this like sort of [TS]

  impermeable barrier somewhere before [TS]

  writing was invented right where we can [TS]

  look back it go back to Sumeria we can [TS]

  go back to to like Egypt [TS]

  and Etruscan civilization but at a [TS]

  certain point you hit that wall before [TS]

  writing and then the vast vast vast [TS]

  majority of human history is just [TS]

  invisible to us we can only see it [TS]

  recorded in tools and in you know like [TS]

  just the marks that we left on the land [TS]

  and I feel like we've we're just now add [TS]

  another one of those thresholds where [TS]

  it's already difficult for us to look [TS]

  back before recording and imagine you [TS]

  know those people hardly left a record [TS]

  right some paintings some books [TS]

  obviously but not everybody was able to [TS]

  write a book [TS]

  the books were just a very small select [TS]

  group of people that never wrote a book [TS]

  now you're right all you have are the [TS]

  day-to-day artifacts and scars yeah and [TS]

  now and you know and a painting of [TS]

  Napoleon at Waterloo aura or a you know [TS]

  some some sheet music of how the music [TS]

  was once played but now where we're [TS]

  living just on the inside of that first [TS]

  envelope of that first next thing where [TS]

  everyone is recording and it's all being [TS]

  documented and and and my dad was you [TS]

  know he he he wasn't aware of being kind [TS]

  of the first generation really that was [TS]

  going to leave that behind because in a [TS]

  way like there was already the radio [TS]

  when he was a kid it was new but it was [TS]

  there and and so he didn't have to make [TS]

  the transition like his father did to [TS]

  this thing to to a world of recorded [TS]

  music and I I just don't know why though [TS]

  why I keep keep churning on that in this [TS]

  space of like all these recordings what [TS]

  that there's something like so magical [TS]

  about them and there's something so [TS]

  fragile about them too and I'm listening [TS]

  to to some record that was recorded in [TS]

  1940 and I'm feeling it on behalf of my [TS]

  own youth at my dad's feet and I'm [TS]

  feeling on behalf of his youth that I [TS]

  that I that was kind of transmitted to [TS]

  me but but that's still new like how is [TS]

  my daughter when she's an a middle-aged [TS]

  woman and she hears that music then it's [TS]

  transferred to her through three [TS]

  generations both the music and the [TS]

  memories and translated in garbled and [TS]

  you know and diluted but also some [TS]

  aspects of it intensified like and we're [TS]

  creating a new kind of collective memory [TS]

  in those in those weird because that [TS]

  will be such it's such a solitary memory [TS]

  and me it's not a thing that if I didn't [TS]

  talk about it isn't a thing that would [TS]

  be evident or anything i could share but [TS]

  but it is that but there is that [TS]

  concreteness to it it's the actual [TS]

  original recording and and that will [TS]

  persist right and and ten generations [TS]

  from now there will be people who are [TS]

  able to hear that Benny Goodman [TS]

  recording and will that secondary Pat a [TS]

  secondary like footnote footnoted [TS]

  information along the way like this meat [TS]

  music meant something to people in my [TS]

  past I don't up i'm not sure it will if [TS]

  ten generations from now they're also [TS]

  listening to this podcast order [TS]

  interacting with an AI this is the kind [TS]

  of thing about the features actually [TS]

  does interest me because it's so easy to [TS]

  very quickly run up against a wall based [TS]

  on our own imagination in the past [TS]

  and even begin to think of souza john [TS]

  philip sousa was was a memory serves was [TS]

  a very strong critic of recorded music [TS]

  one of the many people who said [TS]

  recording music is going to put [TS]

  musicians out of business word you know [TS]

  there's if we want if we can't play live [TS]

  for money anymore [TS]

  like how would we make money we're gonna [TS]

  make money off this you know and that [TS]

  didn't turn out to be an evolution and [TS]

  things change but but you're just [TS]

  describing something in terms of like [TS]

  back to the artifact idea so like you're [TS]

  your father's like your people who came [TS]

  before your father could only appreciate [TS]

  music in the room like there had to be [TS]

  somebody playing the music in the room [TS]

  by the time your father came around you [TS]

  had the ability to experience music in a [TS]

  room but also hear it recorded but she [TS]

  can watch it on demand it wasn't you [TS]

  know what I mean I think about and I [TS]

  mean even as i'm thinking of being a kid [TS]

  and obviously you would wait for a song [TS]

  you like to come on the radio or you [TS]

  would spend money on a jukebox like you [TS]

  get will go out for pizza and you gotta [TS]

  get some quarters to put in the jukebox [TS]

  like even then it wasn't an on-demand [TS]

  thing or you know again think about [TS]

  photos like you might have one photo of [TS]

  your great-grandfather that you really [TS]

  didn't want to lose any there was no [TS]

  such thing as scanning at that time I [TS]

  guess you could make a copy i'll be able [TS]

  to do that was a kid you didn't make you [TS]

  know I mean you have the photo and that [TS]

  was the photo they did everything to [TS]

  protect it and now I mean I've got [TS]

  thousands of photos that i can look at [TS]

  any time that I want and in this is all [TS]

  just rehashing stuff people already are [TS]

  aware of because you're alive right now [TS]

  but then the question also becomes like [TS]

  we started to talk about our kids and [TS]

  how they'll experience this and their [TS]

  kids [TS]

  I mean how the whole medium of changed [TS]

  like why I think about listen to Hank [TS]

  Williams with my dad you know that was [TS]

  on a track that broke by the time he [TS]

  died I could still experience that music [TS]

  but it didn't have that artifact and [TS]

  yeah it wasn't like his watch it wasn't [TS]

  like that photo it was something that [TS]

  was easily replaceable to wear today [TS]

  it's a funny thing now today every time [TS]

  I daughter and I play in the backyard [TS]

  for some reason I don't quite understand [TS]

  we always listen Hank Williams i just [TS]

  always put Hank Williams on me because [TS]

  it reminds me of my dad but we will [TS]

  listen that old wife beater that old [TS]

  drunk in the yard and it's you know it's [TS]

  a bit so I but the thing about this when [TS]

  you're a kid my parents like some music [TS]

  even with are fairly modest means [TS]

  with our modest means music was an [TS]

  investment so if you you would this is [TS]

  back when you would buy something like a [TS]

  Time Life collection of songs about you [TS]

  know the top hits of the sixties or [TS]

  whatever because that wasn't an [TS]

  inexpensive way to do that and then you [TS]

  took care of that because you had to [TS]

  but even that is kind of a weird [TS]

  bastardization of the way people listen [TS]

  to music before that where you would sit [TS]

  and listen to an opera or you would [TS]

  listen to you know a Beethoven's fifth [TS]

  or something [TS]

  so party probably wondering also is like [TS]

  how is the in the post streaming and [TS]

  beyond age like how is the music made [TS]

  going to be different like what kind of [TS]

  music and when they go back and listen [TS]

  Benny Goodman will just be a remix what [TS]

  we would today call a remix like will [TS]

  they ever it will they sit down and [TS]

  listen to whatever album i don't even [TS]

  was on an album 78 sing-sing is on you [TS]

  know i mean the way they consume that I [TS]

  can't even imagine how different that's [TS]

  going to be well and I think that where [TS]

  I keep saying in the context of of my [TS]

  race for a the City Council that that I [TS]

  really do feel like we are on the verge [TS]

  of of a row revolutionary transformation [TS]

  that we've been that we've been gearing [TS]

  up for for the last 35 years i mean i [TS]

  remember being in college in the early [TS]

  nineties having a like a wave of [TS]

  comprehension go over me as I understood [TS]

  what the internet was going to be as i [TS]

  understood what the promise of was was [TS]

  meant to be and thinking like wow I get [TS]

  it [TS]

  the internet or the information [TS]

  superhighway or whatever it was we were [TS]

  calling it then like I got that it was [TS]

  good that the connectedness of [TS]

  everything the availability of [TS]

  everything was what pretended this [TS]

  amazing change and it still felt like [TS]

  science fiction at the time like one day [TS]

  we will all be connected [TS]

  but it seemed like he was gonna be about [TS]

  education and scholarship and innovation [TS]

  in science and things like that and [TS]

  democracy right it was that's what [TS]

  that's what that's what that's the first [TS]

  thing that comes to mind right [TS]

  it's like anybody with a new technology [TS]

  will initially gains if it gains a [TS]

  foothold it will be through games and [TS]

  porn [TS]

  generally it's not actually you don't [TS]

  need that yes just historically been [TS]

  true since the information age but again [TS]

  our vision for the future was [TS]

  constrained by what happened in the past [TS]

  right and i always i never occurred to [TS]

  me that even in the in a world of [TS]

  completely shared information that i [TS]

  wouldn't sit down and listen to and a [TS]

  record on a stereo right i mean it never [TS]

  occurred to me that it would I until I [TS]

  guess the mid-nineties I remember the [TS]

  first time someone showed me a hard [TS]

  drive and imagining that that hard drive [TS]

  could and I should have if I was smart i [TS]

  should have like I don't know there's a [TS]

  million of these but you know ice [TS]

  I i saw the i-pod a long time before the [TS]

  ipod right i think probably a lot of us [TS]

  did was just like wait if you can put [TS]

  music in the computer then you could [TS]

  also just have a and I imagined it as a [TS]

  thing that you put in your car a hard [TS]

  drive that slid into a slot in your car [TS]

  dashboard and it had all the music in [TS]

  the world on it [TS]

  Wow right but what but what I imagine [TS]

  that we're actually at right now the [TS]

  place i imagine we are is still on the [TS]

  other side of the big of the big leap [TS]

  which is going to be this leap of VR and [TS]

  AI and like distributed energy like [TS]

  decentralized energy power I mean and [TS]

  the way that people i think the way that [TS]

  people even my daughter's generation are [TS]

  going to receive information and [TS]

  interact with the world is going to be [TS]

  so different from ours [TS]

  uh-huh that it will be effectively like [TS]

  it's gonna feel like an evolutionary [TS]

  leap and we've been we sci-fi people [TS]

  have been saying this for years we've [TS]

  been talking about this for you [TS]

  this but I really do now feel on the [TS]

  cusp of of this this big change where [TS]

  the the sort of internet that we've been [TS]

  experiencing as it's just been beta and [TS]

  what we're testing the platform and [TS]

  we're seeing I mean I'm astonished [TS]

  everyday when i go on Twitter first that [TS]

  i'm still going there and second that so [TS]

  many millions of people are still going [TS]

  there like all of the rewards all of the [TS]

  serotonin rewards of Twitter from five [TS]

  years ago are gone like twitter is no [TS]

  longer a place of reward [TS]

  it's you know it's often a place of like [TS]

  pure punishment but i keep going there [TS]

  and millions of people keep going there [TS]

  and contributing to it and it is like [TS]

  clearly a beta version of something that [TS]

  we don't yet quite have the [TS]

  interconnectivity to accomplish or you [TS]

  know we don't quite have the vision to [TS]

  even see what its gonna look like but [TS]

  it's it's there like that where our toes [TS]

  are over the line and so the idea of [TS]

  like Benny Goodman this original [TS]

  recording it's entirely possible that [TS]

  you know that a future generation will [TS]

  when that music comes up they will be [TS]

  hearing it [TS]

  they'll also simultaneously be hearing [TS]

  the remixes of it and simultaneously be [TS]

  like gorging on all the information of [TS]

  benny goodman all the all the all the [TS]

  data about him all the cross referencing [TS]

  I mean they're there they access to all [TS]

  that information they might listen to it [TS]

  and and have [TS]

  way more access to it than we do but in [TS]

  a way like never have the never have the [TS]

  whatwhat's going to be lost the the [TS]

  emotional connection to it for the [TS]

  personal in text [TS]

  it'sit's the things it's also impossible [TS]

  and I had this realization of what about [TS]

  10 years ago now that of realizing that [TS]

  every generation every decade really but [TS]

  really every year every you can really [TS]

  gauge a let's say generation but you [TS]

  start to really gauge that generation by [TS]

  what stopped seemed impossible in your [TS]

  lifetime or you know I can you get down [TS]

  to a week like what stop seemed [TS]

  impossible this week because the and [TS]

  then part two of that is it's virtually [TS]

  impossible to know where or when [TS]

  something will stop being impossible and [TS]

  what those things are you know it [TS]

  because that's the nature of of [TS]

  innovation and that's the nature of [TS]

  actual development of all kinds is that [TS]

  like Tesla is kind of about cars but [TS]

  it's really about batteries and once you [TS]

  have something that can do batteries the [TS]

  way they're doing batteries we don't [TS]

  even know what all that's going to [TS]

  change the who knows the way we all [TS]

  started out looking at these fancy [TS]

  sports cars but like that's not don't [TS]

  think I don't follow the stuff closely [TS]

  my sense is that that's not really what [TS]

  this is about this is this starts out i [TS]

  mean the iphone starts as a way to say [TS]

  hey you know you hate your phone [TS]

  how about you have this thing and now [TS]

  it's gets transformed the way I live my [TS]

  life honestly mostly for the positive i [TS]

  mean i can't i can't imagine not being [TS]

  able to find out like where my family is [TS]

  or be in touch with people day-to-day [TS]

  name whatever that's a different [TS]

  conversation but you don't mean that [TS]

  sense of like what what stop being [TS]

  impossible this week [TS]

  like if you think of it that way you [TS]

  realize like how you know all the stuff [TS]

  seemed like such an easy win all the [TS]

  whatever post jetpack thinking about [TS]

  technology it's still not what anybody [TS]

  expected who expected in 1999 that music [TS]

  would be the way it is now is the single [TS]

  biggest year sales for cds right and [TS]

  that that's what 16 years ago that's [TS]

  like that's a blip and they're [TS]

  completely changed [TS]

  well and when you say post jetpack like [TS]

  I like you and I both were raised in an [TS]

  era where the you know the sixties worse [TS]

  j were such a high watermark in a lot of [TS]

  ways culturally i mean i don't mean [TS]

  high-water like that it was all great [TS]

  but just like it was such a service like [TS]

  I can't believe that happened right and [TS]

  also that and also that we almost within [TS]

  the space of a year and a half our [TS]

  country almost completely fell apart [TS]

  with civil unrest and we put somebody on [TS]

  the moon [TS]

  yeah right i mean and 690 there's a [TS]

  bunch of good books about this but I [TS]

  mean it's almost everything that [TS]

  happened in the sixties happened in 1968 [TS]

  yeah including that I was born [TS]

  boo hello the white album and John and [TS]

  wats but you know like the the textbooks [TS]

  that we that you and I read in [TS]

  elementary school and all the way [TS]

  through junior high were all based more [TS]

  or less on that idea that we were that [TS]

  we needed to beat the Soviets to the [TS]

  moon and and you know columbus [TS]

  discovered america sure but but also [TS]

  that the future was coming and it was [TS]

  going to be and Pan Am was still going [TS]

  to be an airline but they were going to [TS]

  fly to space right and it was it was [TS]

  never more than a jump and a half away [TS]

  from what we already understood [TS]

  there's a reason you know in in the [TS]

  fifties everything looks like a [TS]

  television you know what I mean in the [TS]

  sixties everything looks like a rocket [TS]

  it's like you can't really do three [TS]

  steps ahead of where you are but what [TS]

  was so interesting to me was when [TS]

  computers first arrived on the scene i [TS]

  surveyed them you know 1979-80 i guess [TS]

  about personal computers apple the Apple [TS]

  and you know and other than games i did [TS]

  I could not connect those computers to [TS]

  rockets or to hover incarcerator to the [TS]

  future right as I imagined it because [TS]

  they just seemed like expensive [TS]

  typewriters or things that you were [TS]

  meant now all of a sudden they were [TS]

  being colonized by teachers [TS]

  as things that you needed to learn you [TS]

  needed learned it do your reports on [TS]

  them and you know they were they were [TS]

  dull yeah and so although i was in some [TS]

  ways like a lot of my peers you included [TS]

  them in in eighth grade a lot of us sat [TS]

  down and personal computers and some [TS]

  people never stood up again [TS]

  right right um but i sat down at them [TS]

  and I monkey around with them and I was [TS]

  like this isn't the future [TS]

  like this isn't the future [TS]

  this list though literally the worst and [TS]

  Castle Wolfenstein is not fun enough to [TS]

  its not even gonna sit down and try to [TS]

  teach you basic which is incredibly [TS]

  appealing to some people but it was not [TS]

  for me know you really get it felt like [TS]

  the ultimate in like eating my [TS]

  vegetables [TS]

  yeah right super punishment and I [TS]

  remember a couple of things like okay [TS]

  follow this and you have to do this [TS]

  exactly right don't even you know all [TS]

  the spaces have to be right every like / [TS]

  / and has to be right and you work and [TS]

  we're going to draw this thing you type [TS]

  this bunch of gibberish and then you you [TS]

  know that you type run and push her to [TS]

  click click return and it is a like a [TS]

  random tone generator that goes [TS]

  boop-bah-bah paper and if you've done [TS]

  everything flawlessly the screen will [TS]

  turn yellow for a second [TS]

  yeah yeah and it and when it happened I [TS]

  was like wow you guys suck and this [TS]

  sucks like this what this is not fun or [TS]

  interesting because i couldn't even like [TS]

  it I like I turned it off and then I was [TS]

  like hey hey Susan c'mere you know my [TS]

  sister comes over like what I'm like [TS]

  uh-oh can you help me buy you know I've [TS]

  got a computer program here and I just [TS]

  need you do like just to help me here [TS]

  while but i'll be back here wiggling a [TS]

  wire and you just you just push return [TS]

  why don't you [TS]

  she's like all right push your turn sir [TS]

  I was like oh no what did you do learn [TS]

  at the master control program she's just [TS]

  already walking away like through flame [TS]

  like it's no good it's not even good for [TS]

  pooling and like even like in the other [TS]

  thing is likely but when people which [TS]

  would truck call me try to explain to [TS]

  you again the one hand with this is [TS]

  gonna be the next big thing you're like [TS]

  hmm you okay but look if you if you [TS]

  learn this and you master this you will [TS]

  be able to do things like maintain your [TS]

  checking account you're like really [TS]

  that's the appeal the appeal of this is [TS]

  that I could do something I hate on a [TS]

  machine that I hate yeah you know and [TS]

  but you know part of it is also this is [TS]

  a bonus on my ass but I think part of it [TS]

  is also when will anyone when one or [TS]

  when society or whatever is new to [TS]

  technology we tend to look at in terms [TS]

  of this plus that [TS]

  there are some people who are able to [TS]

  earlier than others determine that this [TS]

  could mean this times that [TS]

  yeah right thats that there's that [TS]

  there's a way for this to be more than [TS]

  your checkbook plus a typewriter and you [TS]

  know that there could be some something [TS]

  to see in this guy i've just never I've [TS]

  never had that I'm very bad to this day [TS]

  I still get everything wrong about the [TS]

  future because it's you know it's just [TS]

  based so much on what you saw before and [TS]

  I don't know it's i really liked video [TS]

  games back then and the idea i mean like [TS]

  arcade games that i couldn't afford you [TS]

  know so I mean I it would have been [TS]

  great if I could have fallen in love [TS]

  with typing and in basic but just to [TS]

  have zero appeal to me so I don't know I [TS]

  you know I i can only imagine what I [TS]

  mean I I feel like Mike my parenting [TS]

  style we went to the two she got her [TS]

  tonsils out the other day and we won't [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah yeah and we were at the hospital [TS]

  and the the nurse was like you know [TS]

  trying to a trying to do what you would [TS]

  normally do and and it make a child feel [TS]

  more comfortable and she was like you [TS]

  know would you like to watch frozen on [TS]

  the ipad and you know my kid is [TS]

  fascinated by frozen but has never seen [TS]

  frozen so you know he sent me 101 of [TS]

  wonderful version of her singing the [TS]

  song [TS]

  yeah she basically just saying this one [TS]

  line incorrectly over and over and let [TS]

  go let go let go let it go can't hold it [TS]

  back anymore great dance floor [TS]

  oil that it go can't hold it back [TS]

  anymore and she'll do it over and over [TS]

  and over again and then when i start to [TS]

  sing it she's like stop know and then [TS]

  she'll start again and I'm like okay I'm [TS]

  not singing along but but that is very [TS]

  different from some of my friends who's [TS]

  who who's attitudes about technology and [TS]

  their kids just like let him have a [TS]

  limit let him have at it because the [TS]

  future is going to be rich in these new [TS]

  words and the these new technologies and [TS]

  so you know don't you shouldn't protect [TS]

  your kid from videos or more Disney [TS]

  because this is just the it's the new [TS]

  language and don't raise them to be a [TS]

  weird hermit but like my instinct i just [TS]

  cannot i cannot a like loose the dogs of [TS]

  war like that and so I don't know if I'm [TS]

  doing her a disservice by not already [TS]

  having a VR helmet honor training her [TS]

  training the different hemispheres of [TS]

  her brain [TS]

  I got a green i'm gonna read on this [TS]

  which is that I think and you tell me if [TS]

  I'm wrong but he stopped what I want to [TS]

  get from you is that there are so it's [TS]

  not that you're like a overly cautious [TS]

  or conservative person but I think you [TS]

  do have a good gut check in your own in [TS]

  your own mind anyway for like you know [TS]

  what's the phrase I'm looking for kind [TS]

  of along the lines of first do no harm [TS]

  it's like is there surpassing amount [TS]

  about this let's say somebody says hey [TS]

  you know what you know your kids real [TS]

  sassy and energetic we have a very we [TS]

  have a pill we could give her that would [TS]

  be very minimally invasive and there's a [TS]

  ok good chance they would have good [TS]

  effects like if that's the case like I [TS]

  could think of like 50 reasons why you [TS]

  would go [TS]

  not only am I not gonna do that but I'm [TS]

  going to punch you in the nose for [TS]

  suggesting that right now right because [TS]

  you have there certain things where [TS]

  you're like I get the feeling i can tell [TS]

  you what all those things are I think [TS]

  drugs are collar amongst them but there [TS]

  are certain kinds of things where you [TS]

  going well you know [TS]

  no we're going to avoid that because [TS]

  it's okay to be bored [TS]

  it's okay to be a little bit behind it's [TS]

  okay to be different right it seems like [TS]

  there's certain things we're like that [TS]

  some [TS]

  that's just as important as being able [TS]

  to read is being able to be bored [TS]

  well and also like ultimately i am very [TS]

  suspicious as I think we all are of the [TS]

  like fast pace at which the [TS]

  corporatization of everything is [TS]

  happening [TS]

  uh-huh and so ultimately when I look at [TS]

  frozen and I perceive it to be tied to a [TS]

  global marketing campaign of music and [TS]

  dolls and stickers dresses soon events [TS]

  right when i see when i see that it is [TS]

  also bet that that that somewhere in [TS]

  hollywood there's a team of people [TS]

  sitting around a big table who are [TS]

  saying the word monetize over and over [TS]

  again and and I recognize that the line [TS]

  between them and the creative team who [TS]

  are in a separate room sitting around a [TS]

  separate big table is I I recognize that [TS]

  that line of connection is purposely [TS]

  obfuscating even within that company so [TS]

  that those creative sitting around that [TS]

  table can can convince themselves that [TS]

  they are artists and that they are [TS]

  working in an artistic medium and they [TS]

  are building a thing that is that has [TS]

  its own merit and has and communicates [TS]

  good values two kids and is positive and [TS]

  you know all that stuff but that line of [TS]

  connection between that room of [TS]

  creatives and the rest of the company [TS]

  who are all like like I was in a thrift [TS]

  store the other day and there what [TS]

  behind the counter was some in its [TS]

  original packaging tron merchandise from [TS]

  the tron reboot haha and it was like a [TS]

  little collection of it five or six [TS]

  different pieces and it was evident from [TS]

  the way it was packaged in the way it [TS]

  was you know marketed by its own [TS]

  packaging that the that the the concept [TS]

  or the sense that the that [TS]

  that they had about this was that these [TS]

  characters were going to be so popular [TS]

  with kids that they were going to be [TS]

  able to differentiate between the flying [TS]

  disc that rod had and risk the chip had [TS]

  and I mean that the disk that contains [TS]

  your brain that you should never lose [TS]

  that she uses a weapon that's the one [TS]

  huh [TS]

  and that all that all of this all of [TS]

  this like I was like putting your brain [TS]

  in a sock and hitting somebody with it [TS]

  what are you what you don't do that haha [TS]

  but but like that it was it was obvious [TS]

  that the marketing team had in mind that [TS]

  these were going to be as popular and as [TS]

  widely understood as lightsabers and [TS]

  that the difference between Luke's [TS]

  lightsaber and Darth Vader's lightsaber [TS]

  that I mean that's a very clear [TS]

  distinction and if you want one you [TS]

  probably don't want the other and these [TS]

  tron discs that were connected to the [TS]

  names of these characters not a Jeff [TS]

  Goldblum and and Barney Fife or whatever [TS]

  and it and I'm looking at these things [TS]

  and I was like I I was the target [TS]

  audience for the first Ron I know this [TS]

  world I notron world pretty well and I [TS]

  don't give a shit about these toys and [TS]

  no one ever did and that's why they're [TS]

  in a thrift store in their original [TS]

  packaging and that that world that [TS]

  mechanism that's behind everything that [TS]

  is being distributed now is good for [TS]

  kids or most things it just my [TS]

  suspicions of that trumps any message [TS]

  that they claim frozen Israel you know [TS]

  any like positivity or like togetherness [TS]

  and so and I get very confused when i [TS]

  come up against like first the my little [TS]

  pony universe where there's so much [TS]

  secondary right in about the message [TS]

  that it's and all that secondary writing [TS]

  is stacked up against all this [TS]

  merchandise and you go [TS]

  you know too well which-which instinct [TS]

  to I follow the the one that sees this [TS]

  pile of merchandise and goes yuck or all [TS]

  the secondary writing about friendship [TS]

  is magic that you know that maybe tells [TS]

  a different story that maybe I should be [TS]

  more curious about and then all the way [TS]

  to adventure time where everybody i know [TS]

  all my grown-up friends all say [TS]

  adventure time is amazing and it's a [TS]

  it's into this other world of smart and [TS]

  also caring and good for you literally [TS]

  good for you and made by real people who [TS]

  are legitimately good and weird people [TS]

  that we know like we actually know the [TS]

  people that make it and trying to you [TS]

  know trying to decide like how much of [TS]

  this to let through and then i turn my [TS]

  turn two episodes of Mister Rogers that [TS]

  were made in 1972 and I go you know what [TS]

  I know I know what I'm getting here is [TS]

  Rogers never tried to sell me anything [TS]

  right so I don't know I I honestly don't [TS]

  know what how I'm going to continue to [TS]

  just to be a good Marshall I am because [TS]

  of a show i did with the Johnson case [TS]

  recently where we talked about sports [TS]

  you can basically take everything I feel [TS]

  like everything you just had to say [TS]

  about those entertainment properties and [TS]

  just change that to sports and that's [TS]

  where I am [TS]

  that's and it's it's hard to find a [TS]

  friend sometimes because i like a lot of [TS]

  stuff you're talking about as you know [TS]

  and I'm not about to argue with you [TS]

  about it but like that's and sports and [TS]

  it's like it's so hard it feels so [TS]

  lonely and I won't go over this because [TS]

  I've been yelled at enough on the [TS]

  internet this week about this but like [TS]

  it's it's it's so strange to me to feel [TS]

  like saying like i said here's what i [TS]

  say that I'm not very good at arguing [TS]

  but but so i'll say well you know I [TS]

  think it's really strange how obsessed [TS]

  adults are with sports and sports [TS]

  culture I think it's really odd and i [TS]

  think it's it's it's kind of strangely [TS]

  privileged how much people able to pick [TS]

  from the high ground just because sports [TS]

  and like say well you know you're the [TS]

  word for not feeling this way and then I [TS]

  say that and then people say well you [TS]

  didn't defend that for [TS]

  well and I go I know like it's weird [TS]

  that I have to defend that that's the [TS]

  entire plucking point of what I'm saying [TS]

  is like you are you're soaking in the [TS]

  hegemony here if you can't see how weird [TS]

  it is that you can say from that [TS]

  position that you can say something like [TS]

  well you didn't make a very good case [TS]

  against sports like why should I have to [TS]

  make a good case against sports [TS]

  why should you have to make a case [TS]

  against saying like I don't want my kids [TS]

  to be in the princess business like but [TS]

  you then you end up being the weirdo [TS]

  because there's something about this [TS]

  doesn't feel good [TS]

  well so I was so at this very same [TS]

  thrift store as I'm walking out the door [TS]

  I'm sort of standing there standing [TS]

  there sort of in the entrance and was [TS]

  standing there with me and she points [TS]

  over my shoulder and she says what is [TS]

  that and I turn around and it's a four [TS]

  foot tall pink coffin what and I and [TS]

  we're looking at it from behind and I go [TS]

  what is that and she says is that a kids [TS]

  coffin wave it in a oh my god in a [TS]

  thrift store in a goodwill [TS]

  oh my god that's one letter city till [TS]

  I'm like think often that really you [TS]

  I have to go I have to go look at this [TS]

  now she's like I don't think that you [TS]

  should and I'm like no no I need to see [TS]

  what this is [TS]

  so I go back in the store and I go and [TS]

  look at it and it is a toy object that [TS]

  is connected somehow to vampirism [TS]

  ok ok but it is but it isn't clear it's [TS]

  not branded Twilight it's probably that [TS]

  like I don't know what it's called but [TS]

  there's like that is a kids show and [TS]

  kids franchise it's all about these like [TS]

  vampires in high school [TS]

  alright I've seen this okay i'm gonna [TS]

  get like big eyes [TS]

  the guy that they're like brats they [TS]

  like undead brats [TS]

  under breath I said I actually walked in [TS]

  on some kids watching that show one time [TS]

  and sat down in a chair and watch it for [TS]

  three or four minutes and was like this [TS]

  is the most polluted [TS]

  did entertainment I've ever seen it is [TS]

  not a report [TS]

  well you know they were all six years [TS]

  old I was that I'm sitting at the back [TS]

  of them going [TS]

  this is pollution this is absolute soul [TS]

  pollution it's not mine pollution you [TS]

  haven't you haven't gotten into the the [TS]

  disney network yet it is soul pollution [TS]

  you children need to go outside [TS]

  immediately [TS]

  you need to go splash your faces in a [TS]

  bird you need to you need to bury [TS]

  ourselves in the dirt and you need to [TS]

  you need to poke yourself with things [TS]

  and get infections you need to fight [TS]

  with stick with my other children in the [TS]

  neighborhood you need to cleanse your [TS]

  souls of this garbage [TS]

  I'd love to hear what you think of dog [TS]

  with a blog yeah well one day I'm sure [TS]

  I'll see else consume all these media [TS]

  but so I'm staring at this coffin this [TS]

  4-foot tall pink coffin which has I like [TS]

  a heart cut in the door and and I'm [TS]

  reflecting on vampirism as a children's [TS]

  like diversion at Children's diversion [TS]

  for a like a fetish culture for kids and [TS]

  like your pink undead coffin which then [TS]

  I opened it up and it was like it was [TS]

  meant to be used as a dresser or it had [TS]

  shelves in it [TS]

  the child was not meant to climb into [TS]

  the coffin this was a decorative element [TS]

  for your six-year-old goth prince think [TS]

  six-year-old goth vampire princess and [TS]

  I'm and I'm just thinking all the [TS]

  different board rooms where people [TS]

  pitched story ideas that eventually [TS]

  resulted in a thing where this coffin [TS]

  was made real in the world and it all [TS]

  every one of them seriously they stood [TS]

  in a room they thought about how to name [TS]

  it they thought about what the packaging [TS]

  would look like and they managed to make [TS]

  it through the entire process and still [TS]

  say we should sell a children's coffin [TS]

  let's build this man its life-size the [TS]

  kids will feel you know and so and this [TS]

  thing I mean I don't know how old it is [TS]

  it's cold enough that it's in a thrift [TS]

  store but but but i don't think that old [TS]

  because i can't imagine i can't imagine [TS]

  that these were things that they [TS]

  that certainly wasn't vintage right i [TS]

  mean this isn't brand-new a brand-new [TS]

  confluence of ideas that a child would [TS]

  even know what a vampire was would want [TS]

  to be one but would still want to [TS]

  maintain a princess status writer that [TS]

  it would be connected to Princess ism [TS]

  and criticism princess ism which is the [TS]

  which is now looking at the the biggest [TS]

  ideology in the world this is almost [TS]

  party and so your vampirism princess ism [TS]

  and and you know it's full of little [TS]

  decorative sort of like there's [TS]

  victoriana in it because it's also a [TS]

  little steam pump what an abortion and [TS]

  i'm just i'm looking at this thing and [TS]

  I'm just marveling but I'm also so i'm [TS]

  also listening to all those people in [TS]

  j.crew suits who were approving these [TS]

  ideas and saying like listen vampires [TS]

  are big right now but so are princesses [TS]

  how do we get how do we capitalize on [TS]

  this like well wait wait a minute [TS]

  vampire princess is a man who's with me [TS]

  and and that by the time that that that [TS]

  you're at the receiving end of that like [TS]

  garbage hose you've been you've been [TS]

  like hit with a with like a meat [TS]

  tenderizer a cultural meat tenderizer so [TS]

  many times that you feel like oh sure [TS]

  this all makes sense right of course [TS]

  environment [TS]

  my kid loves being a princess and [TS]

  vampires seems like she's old enough for [TS]

  vampires she's six years old and and [TS]

  then you are you're like you're just in [TS]

  this work earlier in this place where [TS]

  you are literally living in a garbage [TS]

  hose and you don't even know it you [TS]

  think you're doing good [TS]

  you think you're doing you think you're [TS]

  being a good parent and and you can't [TS]

  and it's so hard to even take that tiny [TS]

  little step back and go wait a minute i [TS]

  just buy my daughter a coffin [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]