Roderick on the Line

Ep. 161: "It's Ramifications!"


  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

  good are you going I'm going I'm going [TS]

  man [TS]

  big weekend early man [TS]

  Oh John rado red call patriotic version [TS]

  um yeah it was a big weekend a big nice [TS]

  big long hot weekend I was it hot up [TS]

  there I know it's very hot up here yet [TS]

  just set some kind of record for most [TS]

  days above 80 yeah where we're headed [TS]

  we're headed to a record of most days [TS]

  above 90 now that that's where we were [TS]

  that's what that's our target [TS]

  yeah it hasn't rained in in a long long [TS]

  time and it's a everybody you know the [TS]

  sociopaths love it [TS]

  course because because they're there had [TS]

  their lizard people and they they lay [TS]

  out on their hot rocks you get it they [TS]

  get to live this little fantasy of [TS]

  pretending they live somewhere else [TS]

  mmm i live somewhere different with son [TS]

  yeah yeah they just they absorb the [TS]

  life-giving rays of the Sun and the rest [TS]

  of us are just a cowering something I [TS]

  have has done on me slowly i think i may [TS]

  pick up slightly from you is that when [TS]

  you think about the the problems that [TS]

  different places have you know whether [TS]

  that's you know when it rains in Atlanta [TS]

  rains in san francisco when it snows in [TS]

  some sort doesn't snow and everybody [TS]

  laughs the point laughs but you know the [TS]

  problem is that you know you have your [TS]

  community set up a certain way your city [TS]

  if you like to accommodate what happens [TS]

  over eighty percent of the time [TS]

  mhm right and i don't know i think i [TS]

  have more subtle understanding of these [TS]

  things because I get now I get that that [TS]

  you know yet it's still kinda silly that [TS]

  literally no one in Florida can drive [TS]

  but but you know if you if you're not [TS]

  used to a certain kind of traffic and [TS]

  event happens it's a very infrastructure [TS]

  issue in some ways you can't suddenly [TS]

  ramp up to everybody having air [TS]

  conditioning because it's HOT for four [TS]

  days [TS]

  that's right and no one here has air [TS]

  conditioning it's always been a point of [TS]

  personal pride for satellites no [TS]

  air-conditioning number [TS]

  Ella's those are two big co system-wide [TS]

  decision [TS]

  wow that everyone makes no umbrellas no [TS]

  air conditioning and and now the no [TS]

  air-conditioning thing is kind of [TS]

  starting to be a little bit of a problem [TS]

  for people you can't go you can't go two [TS]

  weeks with no break in the sun in July [TS]

  and and be just sit in front of your box [TS]

  fan and be like yeah I'm fine I'm fine I [TS]

  don't need an umbrella either [TS]

  well yeah I mean there's there's health [TS]

  issues I mean it seems like if I feel [TS]

  like this happens in Chicago a lot when [TS]

  there's heat ways you know ramifications [TS]

  for people like an old people who live [TS]

  alone and don't have air-conditioning or [TS]

  something like that there's there's real [TS]

  mistakes to it you know you know what [TS]

  you just hit on Merlin through its [TS]

  ramifications boom that's what we're [TS]

  talking about what he really said and [TS]

  it's all about ramifications you know [TS]

  what its ramifications and this is a [TS]

  thing that people don't people don't get [TS]

  we don't talk about ramifications enough [TS]

  write that down but uh but this is about [TS]

  ramifications and so many things are you [TS]

  know what i mean so many things are [TS]

  about ramifications really good point [TS]

  John yeah i think i think as principal [TS]

  people with a lot of fancy ideas we have [TS]

  a lot of nouns in our head about how the [TS]

  world works but when it comes down to it [TS]

  the real problem its ramifications [TS]

  that's right yeah yeah at the annual gay [TS]

  though the more the more you say it the [TS]

  more it really resonates with me [TS]

  ramifications its ramifications and you [TS]

  know it started really thinking with me [TS]

  to say just say it a few times and often [TS]

  it's almost like praying and [TS]

  capabilities start to you start to see [TS]

  the ramifications of it [TS]

  yeah you know it's true it's true [TS]

  because I you know and the thing is i [TS]

  don't know i think a lot about these [TS]

  things you know that's what we're you [TS]

  know actually I mentioned this recently [TS]

  somewhere else i think about like I have [TS]

  talked about this with you about like [TS]

  what by evil parenting style or any of [TS]

  the ways you conduct your life I used to [TS]

  think that I had a set of principles or [TS]

  values or any of these other lists of [TS]

  nouns that white men like to talk about [TS]

  I used to think that I had these things [TS]

  and then i willfully mindful e in a very [TS]

  muscular masculine way apply those to [TS]

  life [TS]

  I started to realize that that list is [TS]

  easy to overlook when things are going [TS]

  the way that I want it when things don't [TS]

  go the way that I want right [TS]

  that's when I start wanting to start [TS]

  grabbing my big bag of nouns and [TS]

  slapping on two things going that's why [TS]

  this is wrong when really have to [TS]

  realize its ramifications there's [TS]

  ramifications that you know what i mean [TS]

  though i do people you know it's it's [TS]

  always the kind of like and I guess form [TS]

  of personal NIMBY where you're always [TS]

  putting other people who are doing it [TS]

  wrong on one does that and it's like you [TS]

  used to assume you're doing it right [TS]

  because you got this bag announced yeah [TS]

  I have more than ever before and no i am [TS]

  convinced that i am out that do not have [TS]

  special knowledge and i am not doing it [TS]

  right [TS]

  haha you really feel that when I mean if [TS]

  you have time to sit and think and stew [TS]

  and steam and various other ways of [TS]

  mentally cooking yourself you you can [TS]

  really dig yourself in on how correct [TS]

  your idea about something is and then [TS]

  you might suddenly one might suddenly be [TS]

  exposed to several dozen people who not [TS]

  only disagree with how you steam vents [TS]

  dude but like you can they can actively [TS]

  demonstrable to show you how full of [TS]

  shit you are in a way that is incredibly [TS]

  humbling [TS]

  well there are two things in my [TS]

  immediate life here where I feel like I [TS]

  do have some special knowledge right now [TS]

  okay [TS]

  one of them and I get this may be a [TS]

  foreign world to you don't write it down [TS]

  but uh when I was first introduced to [TS]

  facebook the first thing that I felt [TS]

  about it was that it was a terrible name [TS]

  facebook I don't you know a lot of [TS]

  people don't like the word moist the I [TS]

  don't like the word face succulent [TS]

  there's nothing about the word face that [TS]

  I like and face [TS]

  remember remember in on golden pond when [TS]

  they describe kissing and sucking face [TS]

  and remember that okay yeah okay you add [TS]

  you had sucked face and it really brings [TS]

  out the nastiness of face as a teenager [TS]

  was you know so people sucking face well [TS]

  see it wasn't do it was the is the you [TS]

  know [TS]

  the one of the one of the plot points of [TS]

  on golden pond was what Jane Fonda's son [TS]

  her obnoxious little blonde son or was [TS]

  he [TS]

  yeah there was a young person in that [TS]

  film I haven't seen in a long time but I [TS]

  do remember i do remember the term [TS]

  sucking face ruined not only the movie [TS]

  for me but but i think that entire year [TS]

  of my life who and then so on facebook [TS]

  first came out I was like that's just [TS]

  like sucking face it face facebook i [TS]

  don't want you know like a rock face i [TS]

  like the face of the rock face i can get [TS]

  that's more dignified but a human face [TS]

  yeah or even a little animal face tho 10 [TS]

  days I went into this having no problems [TS]

  faced yeah its ramifications now [TS]

  thinking about face [TS]

  well so yeah that's the thing like [TS]

  you're thinking about face you you took [TS]

  out eat [TS]

  you're not even using like it's just [TS]

  face now right i mean you're just saying [TS]

  it's like it's like the way they talk [TS]

  about police in the wire [TS]

  you don't even say the police anymore [TS]

  you just say it doesn't have an article [TS]

  you just say face just a police right [TS]

  and so Facebook anyway when it first [TS]

  came on i was at you know i had spent so [TS]

  much time worrying about who I was [TS]

  trending on myspace uh-huh that when [TS]

  Facebook came I was just like screw it [TS]

  i'm just going to friend everybody [TS]

  everybody that wants to be my friend can [TS]

  be my friend because i don't care i'm [TS]

  not here to curate anything i'm not [TS]

  trying to create a special place for my [TS]

  people my people aren't on here at all [TS]

  so the people that are on my facebook [TS]

  page are just whoever and so long time [TS]

  ago or some amount of time ago i arrived [TS]

  at the 5,000 friend mark which is the [TS]

  most you can have [TS]

  oh there's limit you can only have 5,000 [TS]

  friends because somewhere in within [TS]

  Facebook they imagined themselves that [TS]

  they imagine their product has a correct [TS]

  use absolutely that's super interesting [TS]

  they do that's why they're so tied to [TS]

  the whole real name thing [TS]

  yeah because they're saying if this is [TS]

  real John rock there's no way an actual [TS]

  person has actual 5,000 friends side and [TS]

  setting aside the fact that you can go [TS]

  and like coca-cola on facebook right [TS]

  that's exactly right so they have an [TS]

  idea about the correct way to use their [TS]

  product and 5,000 friends they determine [TS]

  is the most that are normal human being [TS]

  could have it's obviously way more than [TS]

  a normal human being to adapt but still [TS]

  not as many as I mean if you want to [TS]

  have if you want to be my friend past [TS]

  5,000 then you're my fan right but over [TS]

  the years I have accepted a lot of [TS]

  friend requests from like as I say from [TS]

  whoever so record labels have friended [TS]

  me and a guy that owns a Pontiac [TS]

  dealership and you know there's a lot of [TS]

  stuff on there that I don't care about [TS]

  now my pc pontiac THX pontiac dealership [TS]

  but so I was like all this is you know [TS]

  this is a bummer because people keep [TS]

  friending me every every day and i cant [TS]

  i cannot conclude the transaction with [TS]

  your you're all out of the Bitcoin of [TS]

  human kindness that's right i cannot [TS]

  hand them my like my ace of spades and [TS]

  say you know 1st airborne was here right [TS]

  I cannot touch them with my my virtual [TS]

  fingertip you can't be can't palm your [TS]

  challenge coin i cannot show them my [TS]

  face and take their face into my [TS]

  collection of faces into my book of [TS]

  faces if you will and so and yet here's [TS]

  what i've discovered you ready yeah [TS]

  everyday some one to four people uh [TS]

  disappear from my facebook friendless [TS]

  everyday I'm allotted between 22 and [TS]

  five new opportunities to friend people [TS]

  or to accept friend requests [TS]

  and I don't know where the three to five [TS]

  people 25 people a day go [TS]

  they just decide I've had enough for [TS]

  their monitor their they are a they're [TS]

  in their own Facebook's really managing [TS]

  their account and they decide you know [TS]

  John Roderick he's just not i don't know [TS]

  he's just not working for me anymore [TS]

  whatever it is so every day I get the [TS]

  gratifying feeling of just the and I [TS]

  always go to the always go to the top of [TS]

  the line i always go to the head of the [TS]

  queue and I let to 25 people to 25 more [TS]

  people in and then take it you aren't [TS]

  you unclasp the velvet rope that's right [TS]

  and I say go outside please bring your [TS]

  face to my book [TS]

  yeah and so today it was whose jenn [TS]

  louis and it was who is this person that [TS]

  does the rilo kiley person I don't think [TS]

  we were already friends huh [TS]

  and then this next person has a has an [TS]

  avatar that is a it's a furry it's a [TS]

  it's a free raccoon to free face friend [TS]

  a very friend so uh so that's exciting [TS]

  so that's one thing that I want bad name [TS]

  5,000 friend limit 5,000 friend limited [TS]

  they have a sense of they have a sense [TS]

  of what's of justice here and then the [TS]

  other thing the other thing i know i'm [TS]

  doing right i was walking along and I [TS]

  saw an orange handle on the ground and a [TS]

  what kind of handle you might ask who [TS]

  it's like a broom handle but it's only [TS]

  about 16 18 inches long let's say 18 and [TS]

  lets it not quite two feet sort of like [TS]

  the cap on a push broom [TS]

  that's it is it's a push broom like [TS]

  handle it has it is threaded on one end [TS]

  and it's meant i think to go into a [TS]

  squeegee over right it's like a window [TS]

  washer tool it's unused it's not like [TS]

  well no no it's been used [TS]

  bright orange and I saw it on the ground [TS]

  it and appeal to me I picked it up and [TS]

  I've been carrying it around and it you [TS]

  know it's exactly the right left that [TS]

  you can kind of spin it between your [TS]

  fingers you know it's like it's big it's [TS]

  a stick right you could you could whack [TS]

  somebody with it but it also you can [TS]

  twirl it in your hand that's a very [TS]

  satisfying a circumference and it and [TS]

  it's you know it's got broom-handle [TS]

  weight and I can you know as I i was [TS]

  sitting here right before you called and [TS]

  I was just kinda here i'll give you a [TS]

  little sound effect just back in my leg [TS]

  it interesting so it stands in for its [TS]

  it's not a walking stick [TS]

  it's not a riding crop no not a baton [TS]

  it's certainly not a baseball bat [TS]

  it's it's a it's not one of those giants [TS]

  tix he used to hit your tire but you're [TS]

  actually using it to to beat up people [TS]

  at truck stops but this fits into it is [TS]

  a nice place in your life you saw it you [TS]

  were attracted to it and you just knew [TS]

  that would have the hand weight and feel [TS]

  that you're looking for exactly it does [TS]

  all of the things it scratches the itch [TS]

  of every single one of those things that [TS]

  you just described the tire thumper the [TS]

  riding crop [TS]

  the walking stick the torso a baton [TS]

  right in a mini-me can't stand it's a [TS]

  lot of things like sort of like a [TS]

  receptor em who and so on and the and [TS]

  the orange color i think if it had been [TS]

  blue maybe I would have left it on the [TS]

  ground but the orange color was very [TS]

  intriguing to me and so now i have a [TS]

  thing right i have i have found at least [TS]

  for the in this context i have found a [TS]

  small duck it is this stick and it's [TS]

  giving me like it's it's you know it's [TS]

  giving my fingers something to do it's [TS]

  just dangerous enough that i'm almost [TS]

  certain to whack myself with it like [TS]

  wrongly at some point for her which [TS]

  gives which gives my you know my [TS]

  possession of a little bit of an edge [TS]

  they provide you with a certain amount [TS]

  of alertness that's right that's exactly [TS]

  right it's keeping me in the game keep [TS]

  my head in the game so I feel like in [TS]

  that respect I have sort of a stitt [TS]

  today it's very close in color but [TS]

  different in color to my bell [TS]

  so I've got kind of an orange theme I [TS]

  don't know I just feel like that this [TS]

  little guy oh the other thing I did was [TS]

  I put my water bottle in the in the [TS]

  refrigerator last night and now my water [TS]

  bottle is I was good i got tired of [TS]

  drinking hot water oh so there are few [TS]

  things i know i'm not going to get [TS]

  around here and say that I'm that I [TS]

  don't know anything I do know a few [TS]

  things [TS]

  the small victories can be very [TS]

  important [TS]

  I really I really I really believe that [TS]

  I think I think he started out everyday [TS]

  on the bubble maybe at best and i think [TS]

  you know sometimes it's something comes [TS]

  along and you say hey this is the [TS]

  direction you need to go [TS]

  what does that phrase me on the bubble I [TS]

  think it has to do I think of it as [TS]

  being like a like a level a carpenter's [TS]

  level where oh yeah [TS]

  beware when it's when it's you know [TS]

  across the event that is exactly [TS]

  horizontal the the little bubble in the [TS]

  green liquid is exactly the right place [TS]

  you're on the bubble [TS]

  I don't know I don't know why that's [TS]

  what i think of any way but you know [TS]

  they're just mean that it could go [TS]

  either way [TS]

  yeah I i well I wonder I I I think [TS]

  sometimes what well you know a lot of a [TS]

  lot of our podcast yours in mine one of [TS]

  the major themes has been what are we [TS]

  doing what are we meant to do and what [TS]

  are we actually doing and and I feel [TS]

  like I feel like I'm just trying to get [TS]

  on the bubble [TS]

  I'm just trying to get get that bubble [TS]

  somewhere huh [TS]

  I when I went hiking yesterday with my [TS]

  family we hiked up to a mountain lake [TS]

  and we're some of the only people there [TS]

  there was a there was some kind of dead [TS]

  critter it was truly mountainous and and [TS]

  the ladies in my party all jumped in [TS]

  this freezing mountain lake and I kind [TS]

  of took my shoes off and waded into my [TS]

  knees which is that was that that was [TS]

  right where I was comfortable was very [TS]

  it was cold mountain lake and I was you [TS]

  know I was I was being watchful eye was [TS]

  I didn't want to jump in the lake I [TS]

  wanted to kind of keep one not a foot on [TS]

  the shore but i wanted to be ready to [TS]

  you know you don't know what's gonna [TS]

  happen up there in the mountains like we [TS]

  heard coyotes and you know and I was [TS]

  there and I was like okay my is this [TS]

  this was this was absolutely where I was [TS]

  meant to be right now right this is I am [TS]

  exactly where I need to be right now [TS]

  um and and hey if you can get if you can [TS]

  I feel like if you can even get that [TS]

  once a day like this is exactly where [TS]

  i'll try and meant to be right now [TS]

  uh-huh like you're you are your triumph [TS]

  in a little bit at least i'll totally oh [TS]

  no III hundred percent agree yeah when [TS]

  was the last time that you felt like [TS]

  that you were exactly where you were [TS]

  meant to be [TS]

  well this is gonna be a false positive [TS]

  because i rarely get it because I'm [TS]

  broken inside and now I can't stop [TS]

  thinking about the motherfucking [TS]

  kool-aid man coming through my wall haha [TS]

  son there's something about the enough [TS]

  and the analogy of the anxiety kool-aid [TS]

  man that has now kind of taken over as [TS]

  controlling metaphor for my own mental [TS]

  landscape and sorry i know i mean you [TS]

  know it's a it is this happens rare [TS]

  enough that i did really enough that I [TS]

  really notice it [TS]

  uh we mentioned i think fly we went away [TS]

  for the weekend to visit family the [TS]

  family you know our in-laws that we [TS]

  visit pretty often they've recently [TS]

  moved like much further away than where [TS]

  they were before they're out like east [TS]

  of Sacramento now and it's in an area [TS]

  that I would almost described as like [TS]

  the suburban Country like I I don't know [TS]

  a lot about California but there are [TS]

  these areas where not much happens for a [TS]

  while and then you get into this this [TS]

  area that's like a weird combination of [TS]

  like gated communities but also like [TS]

  fairly what I think it's the kind of [TS]

  places that tend to go up like tinder [TS]

  during a wildfire like you're out in the [TS]

  middle of you know that they have a [TS]

  creek behind their house and with [TS]

  crawdads in it and we go and we draw the [TS]

  crawdads it's really fun and a 10 you [TS]

  draw the kroger my my daughter is kind [TS]

  of a what's less than amateur a terrible [TS]

  and [TS]

  naturalist she likes looking at things [TS]

  and holding them in collecting the golf [TS]

  balls that people have hit into the [TS]

  creek where so many golf balls and a [TS]

  part of nature and they got credits [TS]

  which is kind of cool sort of my tiny [TS]

  lobsters when you said draw the crawdads [TS]

  I thought that was a southern way of [TS]

  describing catching them but you're [TS]

  literally drawing them with pen and [TS]

  paper sketching them George driving the [TS]

  crawdad sounds like a terrible guided by [TS]

  voices wreck all we were out there [TS]

  drawing the crawdads and grew up for 25 [TS]

  / a sketch the mudflat family a but [TS]

  skipper would slap much fun so I now [TS]

  that's a gross word that goes on with [TS]

  face mudflap the word flap is so groups [TS]

  well I i I'm may not have ever told you [TS]

  the story but I was sitting I was [TS]

  sitting on the side of the road one time [TS]

  with a with an an older guy and we're [TS]

  just sort of shooting the shit I was [TS]

  there with a friend and he was there [TS]

  with a friend the older guy was with a [TS]

  friend and a really nice Cadillac drove [TS]

  by and the old man said that's a nice [TS]

  car and I said that's not really my [TS]

  style I like it I like a little bit [TS]

  grittier than you know that's all that's [TS]

  all dandy it up and he said oh you're [TS]

  one of them mud ducks my ducks and that [TS]

  sounds like that sounds like a sexy [TS]

  thing a mud duck and then my friend [TS]

  seized upon it and still to this day [TS]

  calls me mud Archie see that's how it [TS]

  starts [TS]

  just like snotboogie anyway so you're [TS]

  out there in Grass Valley California [TS]

  working app grass valley Greg were way [TS]

  the heck out the middle to know and [TS]

  believe me I have so many things to tell [TS]

  you about this weekend but but you know [TS]

  I'm in retrospect there was just this is [TS]

  really dumb personal but my daughter [TS]

  loves going to the family's new house [TS]

  they have a hammock in the backyard and [TS]

  we were just laying there kind of [TS]

  perpendicular in the hammock kind of [TS]

  just cuddling and being silly [TS]

  yeah but I mean you know it isn't like i [TS]

  think you know we need to disabuse [TS]

  ourselves of the of the like we're [TS]

  I don't know Norman Rockwell fifties [TS]

  idea about how families actually spend [TS]

  time together a lot of it's excruciating [TS]

  it is actually extremely rare to have [TS]

  the moments that are depicted in things [TS]

  like coca-cola commercials and and but [TS]

  when it does happen and you're not [TS]

  trying to create a coca-cola moment it's [TS]

  actually really nice so we were just [TS]

  laying there and we do something there's [TS]

  a thing we do where we take a sound and [TS]

  then we try to figure out all the words [TS]

  that you get the alphabet and how many [TS]

  words you can make out that sound and [TS]

  that becomes a song and we're just [TS]

  sitting there and I was like you know [TS]

  this is actually really nice and she [TS]

  went inside to play on the ipad but it [TS]

  was nice and but i find those moments [TS]

  very rare maybe partly because of the [TS]

  kool-aid man but uh but it does it does [TS]

  happen it does happen but I see now I [TS]

  had numerous things I you know numerous [TS]

  times with the family where I felt like [TS]

  I was not participating as much as i [TS]

  should like in your case you go in up to [TS]

  your up to your you know calves I [TS]

  finally at length put on my swimsuit and [TS]

  got in the pool with everybody but I [TS]

  don't love that you know it John [TS]

  everybody's got tattoos now know your [TS]

  resume i see I this is the thing I live [TS]

  in a bubble and then I go out to the to [TS]

  the suburban Country land and like I'm [TS]

  on me like like there's there's not a [TS]

  clean ankle in that County yeah there's [TS]

  some kind of some kind of shitty [TS]

  insignia affixed to every leg where they [TS]

  live and boy people buy clothes to show [TS]

  it off and like you know God love you [TS]

  i'm glad you're having the life you want [TS]

  but it makes me incredibly uncomfortable [TS]

  yeah and uh huh I mean everybody you [TS]

  know and I think sometimes like moms and [TS]

  dads get sympathy and tattoos because [TS]

  their kids have already gotten in way [TS]

  over their head in there in the in the [TS]

  tattoos in their twenties I think they [TS]

  get a sympathy tattoo maybe get a [TS]

  memorial tattoo your Tweety Bird you get [TS]

  some kind of like a really poorly drawn [TS]

  trouble clef oh I've seen since I've [TS]

  seen so many insignias oh oh my goodness [TS]

  but no I'm not always participating as [TS]

  much as i showed him you know I go [TS]

  through my moods but yeah oh yeah oh I [TS]

  know I know not [TS]

  I'm pretty I'm usually a pretty jolly [TS]

  guy but you know sometimes it's just [TS]

  like a [TS]

  hey kool-aid kool-aid [TS]

  oh yeah yeah crashing baby boomer with a [TS]

  big Fred you're gonna retire [TS]

  oh yeah haha oh yeah I had that [TS]

  conversation you know god please no [TS]

  company where i figger morning come on [TS]

  I said listen the only real wealth is [TS]

  property i heard that where I heard [TS]

  those words come out of my mouth the [TS]

  only real wealth his property and the [TS]

  people are always talking to world like [TS]

  you said like James Earl Jones and cohen [TS]

  know what is a good one person kinda [TS]

  looked out the window the other person [TS]

  started twirling their hair and I was [TS]

  like no listen it was it was it was a [TS]

  non sequitur we sitting a little bit [TS]

  like bad puffing on your on your on your [TS]

  uh your mirror Shami or your calabash in [TS]

  you go [TS]

  the only real well as proper traffic i [TS]

  looked i think i looked up from a [TS]

  newspaper looked over the ground [TS]

  scratching yourself at the same time the [TS]

  real world looks and you know what [TS]

  there's something I want my daughter to [TS]

  know gather out the only real world is [TS]

  probably real well that's true yeah [TS]

  never going to retire Jesus and and can [TS]

  only get can only be comfortable with [TS]

  other people are in brief a brief moment [TS]

  you think we're really different you and [TS]

  me roar us and the world [TS]

  well I knew you and I were corner cases [TS]

  but like I I used to think of us as [TS]

  being very very a different and now I [TS]

  think we might share a kool-aid man m [TS]

  kool-aid man as a service [TS]

  one of one of my quotes from yesterday [TS]

  you know we were we were hiking it was a [TS]

  it was a truly a mountain mountain hike [TS]

  and my little girl has gone on some [TS]

  she's become some forced marches with us [TS]

  before before no and the you know in my [TS]

  long-term goal which was to get her to [TS]

  think that hiking in the mountains is [TS]

  normal is starting to take effect right [TS]

  she no longer complains she [TS]

  she knows better she just she assumed [TS]

  that this is you know that we're gonna [TS]

  do any was quite a long hike it was it [TS]

  was a few miles up in a few miles down [TS]

  my goodness on her little legs ya up to [TS]

  the up to the mountains but what I what [TS]

  I started to notice was you know she she [TS]

  is a narrator right she is narrating all [TS]

  the time and when she's narrating show [TS]

  get up into a word storm and forget [TS]

  where she is forget what she's doing but [TS]

  she's on a mountain trail so she would [TS]

  then immediately slip-and-fall she felt [TS]

  one at one point yesterday face-first [TS]

  into a stream [TS]

  no it didn't know she was just stopping [TS]

  out and tripped and plop right like face [TS]

  in a stream and that was a surprise that [TS]

  it was really actually quite priceless [TS]

  oh no I she wasn't horribly injured no [TS]

  and woman she was coming it we were [TS]

  hiking in the mountains we were all [TS]

  injured by the end but at a certain [TS]

  point I i became a dad right and I [TS]

  started to say less talking more walking [TS]

  and I heard myself say it again and then [TS]

  I was like it's my mantra it's my dad [TS]

  mantra for the day and every time i [TS]

  would say you would stop and she would [TS]

  think about it for a while and she would [TS]

  walk and she would walk without falling [TS]

  and then after a while you know we can [TS]

  die in the end I and there were a couple [TS]

  of identity to the rules right if you [TS]

  have a question about anything you can [TS]

  always ask a question are you allowed to [TS]

  pause and stop walking [TS]

  you can pause and stop walking and look [TS]

  at stuff there long i can see a lot of [TS]

  it [TS]

  potential abuse right up right there [TS]

  there's a certain amount of that but we [TS]

  did we play a game where it's like who's [TS]

  that who's the locomotive who is the [TS]

  who's the hopper car and who's the [TS]

  caboose [TS]

  so if you use if you stop and want to [TS]

  like look at something then you know [TS]

  we'll all stop and look but if you're [TS]

  your laggin and you're the caboose you [TS]

  know [TS]

  remember you are four years old and the [TS]

  this is a mountain forest [TS]

  so you want a lag to collect too far [TS]

  behind because the Coyotes ok [TS]

  uh-huh yeah we should start a collection [TS]

  of dad quotes i had 1i I like the [TS]

  description of this as being something [TS]

  you find yourself saying yeah no one [TS]

  wakes up wanting to say say say certain [TS]

  things but one finds oneself saying [TS]

  things that you wear it's very you may [TS]

  sound like your parents one's own [TS]

  parents or you may sound like a whole [TS]

  new kind of awful parents [TS]

  yeah I sound I mean I never in my life [TS]

  thought I would ever say less talking [TS]

  more walking [TS]

  how about this one um well you're just [TS]

  gonna have to cry in the car which witch [TS]

  is which is a version of less talking [TS]

  more walking which is like an incorrect [TS]

  I screwed up any attempt i might make to [TS]

  take the lessons I've learned from my [TS]

  child's wonderful school to say [TS]

  something like hey you know it's okay to [TS]

  feel sad [TS]

  it's ok to have emotions it's okay to [TS]

  cry but you know what did you can [TS]

  anything we don't have time to cry here [TS]

  no listen that's a lie i have have said [TS]

  that voice why did they say that it's [TS]

  know what a help save your feelings hold [TS]

  them in when we get into the women get [TS]

  into our safe bubble you can let them [TS]

  out [TS]

  we gotta go we got three hour drive la [TS]

  grande Grande the car [TS]

  listen grab your bag oh yeah so uh so i [TS]

  have i've been i've been coping pretty [TS]

  well lately by you know you know you [TS]

  kind of we this is another thing that [TS]

  you and I talked about a lot and I don't [TS]

  think we've ever put a name to it but I [TS]

  but I'm starting to think of it as [TS]

  reverse-engineered Buddhism well that's [TS]

  pretty good right where you're not going [TS]

  into it Buddhistic Lee mhm but you you [TS]

  arrive at it you arrive at Buddhism by [TS]

  other by another path that's good and [TS]

  I'm and I'm finding that I'm finding [TS]

  that in my life [TS]

  that it's actually very effective you [TS]

  know Two and sometimes it involves some [TS]

  swears right where I think of actual [TS]

  Buddhism isn't as never involving any [TS]

  swears see that's that's bad marketing [TS]

  right that's the thing they don't tell [TS]

  you this is what those Wall Street fat [TS]

  cats don't want you to know that if [TS]

  you're meditating and he was [TS]

  uncomfortable experiences in your entire [TS]

  life not just on your legs your behind [TS]

  but like you're just supposed to sit [TS]

  there and take it as your mind like goes [TS]

  through everything that's wrong [TS]

  well so many squares that's the thing so [TS]

  many squares it's like it's like that [TS]

  argument you and I had so many years ago [TS]

  when I was like Christians shouldn't [TS]

  smoke pot it's the same it's like [TS]

  Buddhist shouldn't swear but of course [TS]

  when you're meditating your mind is full [TS]

  of swears your you are so full of [TS]

  squares and that's that's how you feel [TS]

  like I'm not doing this right and [TS]

  percent alcohol your good John Wow king [TS]

  but in fact it's all swears it's where's [TS]

  all the way down [TS]

  how did you so you know how did you [TS]

  reverse engineer this but what's the [TS]

  thing if I could ask if you want to say [TS]

  what's the thing that occurs to you go [TS]

  hmm here's the thing i could try here's [TS]

  a thought technology i could experiment [TS]

  with well so so running this campaign [TS]

  for public office has been a extremely [TS]

  difficult and emotionally difficult and [TS]

  and practically difficult energetically [TS]

  difficult and and so the difficulty like [TS]

  breeds in me at least like and I think [TS]

  in i think in most candidates like i was [TS]

  talking the other day to a very [TS]

  successful local politician who is like [TS]

  sort of everybody everybody admires and [TS]

  he turned to his wife and said you know [TS]

  because i was talking about the pic the [TS]

  trials of the campaign he turned to his [TS]

  wife he said remember my first campaign [TS]

  and she said yeah and he said I had a a [TS]

  total nervous breakdown like I i thought [TS]

  i was going to end up in a rubber room [TS]

  oh wow and I think that that is true of [TS]

  everyone that's one of the things that [TS]

  people don't really know it's so easy to [TS]

  look at [TS]

  political candidates and think oh [TS]

  they're ego-driven it's all for glory [TS]

  it's all for their you know they just [TS]

  like to hear the sound of their own [TS]

  voice all this kind of stuff that we put [TS]

  on political candidates and and there's [TS]

  no way to know even as a I mean even as [TS]

  a total political voyeur and tourists as [TS]

  I feel like I've been my whole life [TS]

  watching candidates and watching the [TS]

  process there's just no way to know how [TS]

  much you know how exposed you are how [TS]

  vulnerable you are and how much the [TS]

  process of running for office is to just [TS]

  put yourself over and over in front of [TS]

  people who are communicating to you in [TS]

  every way that the best you can do is to [TS]

  be that the best that you're going to [TS]

  get from them is that they're going to [TS]

  give you a face like they're sucking on [TS]

  a lemon right like every day you're just [TS]

  you wake up in the morning like I'm [TS]

  gonna have to go out and I'm gonna meet [TS]

  600 people today and they're all going [TS]

  to give me a lemon face and then at the [TS]

  end of the day maybe I'll remember to [TS]

  eat so there's not that you know the [TS]

  idea that anybody would do it for that [TS]

  the idea that it is self-aggrandizing or [TS]

  that you that you do it and it's just [TS]

  like strokes the whole time right is so [TS]

  far off and there's so much easier ways [TS]

  to do that [TS]

  all right i mean if you I mean anyway [TS]

  now just go on facebook and put a bunch [TS]

  of put a bunch of selfies on there and [TS]

  talk about your surgery you're you're [TS]

  already you're already like getting so [TS]

  many more ego strokes then even the [TS]

  president of the united states right i [TS]

  mean it's just like running for office [TS]

  is so hard and and there have been [TS]

  multiple multiple times where I've just [TS]

  you know kind of like my friend the [TS]

  successful politician where I don't feel [TS]

  like I'm going to end up in a rubber [TS]

  room but I'd but you get that you get [TS]

  that very human cornered feeling just [TS]

  like everywhere I look there is [TS]

  something bad about to happen and it's [TS]

  an and none of it is going to register [TS]

  as bad to people outside like you know I [TS]

  was in a pro [TS]

  is marked in the pride parade and [TS]

  everybody around me and everybody that [TS]

  saw me and took a picture of me is like [TS]

  wow you're you know that must have been [TS]

  amazing you're marching in the pride [TS]

  parade but from my perspective like I'm [TS]

  marching as a political candidate in the [TS]

  pride parade and so the joy that people [TS]

  are expressing um is not directed at me [TS]

  right I am trying being a political [TS]

  candidate I am arriving in a situation [TS]

  where people are expressing joy and I'm [TS]

  trying to grab it [TS]

  I'm trying to grab your more like a [TS]

  witness to joy yeah right or like i am [TS]

  here is the is the best that you can be [TS]

  right now if you if I had if I had an [TS]

  enormous feathered headdress and was [TS]

  wearing a g-string I would be like I am [TS]

  giving back the joy that you are sending [TS]

  right like I am I am Here I this parade [TS]

  is an expression of my liberation you [TS]

  know there are so many people in that [TS]

  parade that are truly expressing like [TS]

  something real and powerful and i am [TS]

  saying i would like to be your elected [TS]

  representative yeah like kind of like [TS]

  almost a form of tourism and and so and [TS]

  i don't and i think most most candidates [TS]

  are most candidates are either not [TS]

  sensitive i think i think ultimately to [TS]

  be a successful political candidate he [TS]

  cannot be sensitive [TS]

  you can't have spent your whole [TS]

  professional career trying to be [TS]

  emotionally raw which is what i have [TS]

  done for now you are emotionally raw [TS]

  you're an adult who is still emotionally [TS]

  raw which is a rare enough thing in and [TS]

  of itself and then you're putting [TS]

  yourself into a situation where people [TS]

  are like it's just like squeezing lemons [TS]

  in your eyes all day so I think people [TS]

  are marching in this parade and they are [TS]

  not conscious of the fact that they are [TS]

  uh or there or if they are conscious of [TS]

  it they don't it's not connected to [TS]

  their emotions that they are kind of [TS]

  carpetbagging almost any situation [TS]

  you're in as a candidate your [TS]

  carpetbagging unless it is an event that [TS]

  you have set up yourself for people to [TS]

  come [TS]

  yellow you about streetcars um but but [TS]

  so so I'm arriving at this [TS]

  I'm arriving at this backdoor Buddhism [TS]

  because literally I it's the only I mean [TS]

  I it's not a stratagem my employ in it [TS]

  is a last resort of how am I going to [TS]

  make it to the end of today and then I [TS]

  find myself like trying to just be [TS]

  present and trying to recognize the you [TS]

  know all these are all these notions [TS]

  that I've I learned or heard of her but [TS]

  in other ways other different kinds of [TS]

  practice and I'm actually it's the it's [TS]

  the only thing that that will get me to [TS]

  the end of the day and that's really you [TS]

  know that's where you get to the to the [TS]

  kind of the mathematics of the soul [TS]

  right where you we just you find the [TS]

  core principles that are true across all [TS]

  religions are you find the core [TS]

  principles that are just that are that [TS]

  are the equations [TS]

  uh-huh at the start of the Spirit is [TS]

  written in because you you you get to a [TS]

  place where you're justyou're you have [TS]

  you are in the particle accelerator of [TS]

  the of the Spirit and it just breaks it [TS]

  down to two those you know the elements [TS]

  i guess there's an element of any port [TS]

  in a storm [TS]

  um well or you know it's for it [TS]

  it's funny because you mean there are [TS]

  aspects of what I'm doing where I have [TS]

  never cared so much about i think i'm [TS]

  doing right I've never I mean maybe [TS]

  maybe making records ye you care so [TS]

  deeply about it but but the thing about [TS]

  making a record is your caring about [TS]

  each aspect of it [TS]

  it's very hard to care about the record [TS]

  while you're making it because what [TS]

  you're what you really care about is [TS]

  this bass part you're working on right [TS]

  now and if you manage to care deeply [TS]

  about this bass part and that tambourine [TS]

  part and you never you never walked in [TS]

  the studio and go out this tambourine [TS]

  part doesn't matter just bang bang bang [TS]

  but you go in every time ago like I [TS]

  gotta get this tambourine part right [TS]

  like this is going to be the thing that [TS]

  really lifts this tune and you know so [TS]

  you're carrying very deeply about the [TS]

  parts and but you you never aware of [TS]

  like Ike I'm i care about this record [TS]

  you don't you don't think that if you [TS]

  keep you if you're too much i said this [TS]

  from some experience if you're too much [TS]

  in that position you're probably not [TS]

  making the record that's right it's just [TS]

  it's there's something actually i [TS]

  actually heard an interview this morning [TS]

  on sound opinions they were talking to I [TS]

  want to say the band Torres but this [TS]

  woman Mackenzie something in this band [TS]

  proposal sentence anyway and some point [TS]

  recently heard an interview with [TS]

  somebody where they were talking about [TS]

  how dealing with I think I'm really [TS]

  mangling this but somebody talking about [TS]

  how like there's something really [TS]

  comforting about actually being in the [TS]

  studio and recording and its high [TS]

  pressure is that is that's really kind [TS]

  of knowable sort of high pressure and [TS]

  because you you really are a tent-like [TS]

  deep in the implementation details and [TS]

  doing of things it's like when you're [TS]

  outside of that rare environments and I [TS]

  feel about recording the show were being [TS]

  onstage I find it relaxing we do this is [TS]

  this this is not is not the part that i [TS]

  find difficult at all i love doing this [TS]

  it's you know it's everything else [TS]

  that's difficult and because that's when [TS]

  you think about like what should you be [TS]

  doing that you're not doing right now [TS]

  you don't think I mean like it do you do [TS]

  that to an extent but like if you're [TS]

  really absorbed in what you're doing in [TS]

  the studio was just thinking about a [TS]

  baseline or tambourine like that's [TS]

  that's really freeing yeah and and when [TS]

  and that is the opposite of what it is [TS]

  like at least for me in running a [TS]

  campaign because each individual event [TS]

  in the campaign like none of them and [TS]

  not very few of them at least is thus [TS]

  far our are moments where it's like I [TS]

  really have to get this bass part right [TS]

  you know each each one of them at least [TS]

  four and i think there are candidates [TS]

  who every every time they appear in [TS]

  front of the like concerned shoppers of [TS]

  America [TS]

  they want to you know they want to give [TS]

  their stump speech a little bit better [TS]

  and tailor it to this concern shoppers [TS]

  but for me each one of those events is [TS]

  just like oh there's nothing i want to [TS]

  do less than go talk to the concerned [TS]

  shoppers of america and it's not because [TS]

  I'm not interested in hearing what the [TS]

  concern shoppers are concerned about it [TS]

  is that every one of these things is it [TS]

  is is a kind of theater and they are not [TS]

  really telling me what they're concerned [TS]

  about like there is there's very little [TS]

  real communication happening if any real [TS]

  communication does happen in these [TS]

  events it is by accident and yet so so [TS]

  every one of the building block events [TS]

  is kind of really hard much much harder [TS]

  than than what you get out of it you [TS]

  know what I mean like it's almost over [TS]

  what do they call it in sports is it [TS]

  like the compulsories and in-store or [TS]

  like you know if anything we're like you [TS]

  or time trial kind of thing where you [TS]

  have to compete in order to be allowed [TS]

  to compete right right right exactly [TS]

  right and so that in one way obviously [TS]

  that is very similar to a primary you're [TS]

  competing before you're allowed to [TS]

  compete but the other part of it is that [TS]

  and I i might be over dramatizing this a [TS]

  little bit but it seems to me like every [TS]

  event you go to what you're trying to [TS]

  avoid saying is that it sounds like is [TS]

  that these can't all be the most [TS]

  important high-stakes thing in the world [TS]

  for you perish like but you also have to [TS]

  take each one of those seriously because [TS]

  while there's not an eternal like huge [TS]

  amount of long-term gain from really [TS]

  hitting it out of the park there are [TS]

  there are potentially huge ramifications [TS]

  if it goes terribly wrong [TS]

  so it's one of those this it's like all [TS]

  the worst kind of existential compressor [TS]

  limiter were like no matter how great it [TS]

  gets you're ok you're good now these [TS]

  three hundred shoppers might consider [TS]

  you but if you say something wrong or [TS]

  you fart or something like that like it [TS]

  could go it could be potentially [TS]

  catastrophic is now there's now there's [TS]

  really some news report on ya and every [TS]

  single you know every single moment is [TS]

  an opportunity for somebody to stand up [TS]

  and say when did you stop beating your [TS]

  wife [TS]

  right you're just like you know a god [TS]

  it's happy you know like it's always [TS]

  there's every morning waking up and [TS]

  looking at the internet it's just like [TS]

  is today the day that the internet it [TS]

  you know that I mean there there's one [TS]

  guy in my race that that that wants to [TS]

  win badly enough that he is willing to [TS]

  be he's willing to attack me personally [TS]

  that gets it gets too desperate he's [TS]

  more than willing to to go negative [TS]

  yeah he's demonstrated it already a [TS]

  couple of times and that the attacks [TS]

  have been sort of ineffective because [TS]

  he's just but he's he really is he [TS]

  really wants it and what I have learned [TS]

  the way I have learned to survive this [TS]

  is to arrive at a place where it is it's [TS]

  really funny because as I say I have [TS]

  never cared so much about the overall [TS]

  project I've never cared so much about [TS]

  the about the thing i'm doing but I have [TS]

  also had to learn to say it like [TS]

  ultimate Lee I'm fine with any result [TS]

  i'm fine with either result like if i [TS]

  win [TS]

  that is a that is cause for celebration [TS]

  if I do not win that is also that is [TS]

  also fine for that is also like even a [TS]

  it is a it will be a profound lesson and [TS]

  experience and i don't mean personally [TS]

  like I'm not talking about this like [TS]

  what a journey right but like I will I i [TS]

  already know so much more than I ever [TS]

  knew and that knowledge is going to be [TS]

  useful to me down the road and and I you [TS]

  know and i know i want to [TS]

  I know that helping other people helping [TS]

  my fellows is one of my core principles [TS]

  and now I know how to do that better but [TS]

  ultimately if I if I focus on winning if [TS]

  that is the goal then there's there are [TS]

  so many opportunities every day to do [TS]

  something in order to win that is [TS]

  against my beliefs her and so I cannot [TS]

  focus on winning because I see what it [TS]

  does to people and and there are [TS]

  hundreds and hundreds of people who want [TS]

  to facilitate you making the wrong [TS]

  choice in order to win right that's the [TS]

  whole consultant game it's just like oh [TS]

  you want to win I'll tell you how to win [TS]

  you put you know you you you unscrew [TS]

  your opponent's brake lines and there's [TS]

  always another devil to appear on your [TS]

  shoulder [TS]

  yeah and so you cannot think about [TS]

  winning and if you're not thinking about [TS]

  winning then you have to arrive at a [TS]

  place where winning doesn't matter we're [TS]

  winning isn't the goal the goal is [TS]

  something else and you know like the [TS]

  goal is not to keep your personal [TS]

  integrity intact because i already had [TS]

  my personal integrity intact before I [TS]

  started running the race [TS]

  this wasn't some isn't something where [TS]

  it's like I need to find what find my [TS]

  integrity like I had it right so the the [TS]

  goal has to be something else and if it [TS]

  isn't winning and if it isn't staying [TS]

  honest rat no matter what the cost or [TS]

  what the what the result you know that [TS]

  that is this that is this that is this a [TS]

  this arrival in a place of like [TS]

  acceptance where I'm still I'm still [TS]

  working hard and striving every day to [TS]

  do the best job I can with the with the [TS]

  constant friend with the constant [TS]

  companion being the knowledge that i'm [TS]

  not willing to do anything to win [TS]

  and you know you know but not by [TS]

  anything i mean you know when you do [TS]

  like you know in yeah I I understand [TS]

  what you mean [TS]

  yeah and that at that that's the only [TS]

  thing that gives me comfort right i mean [TS]

  I will be I will like the anxiety will [TS]

  well up in me to the point where I feel [TS]

  like I have never felt so bad it's just [TS]

  a terrible anxiety is a terrible [TS]

  terrible feeling her and a and it will [TS]

  it rises up and I feel so so so bad and [TS]

  then I just say you know i'm not trying [TS]

  to I'm not trying to win i'm trying to [TS]

  do something else and you know I'm [TS]

  trying to help [TS]

  um and and that's that's getting me down [TS]

  the road you know my pipe right I talked [TS]

  to my mom the other day and she said I [TS]

  was looking for sympathy first mistake [TS]

  and she said you've had worse months [TS]

  than this I was like mom that's not [TS]

  helpful i need i need support [TS]

  she was like that is support you've had [TS]

  worse months than this you survived [TS]

  worse than this so survive it [TS]

  Wow no borders no quarter and I was like [TS]

  she's right i have had worse months than [TS]

  this and i have survived them and that [TS]

  is good advice and that is a way of but [TS]

  you know that's very different than like [TS]

  you've gotta win [TS]

  yeah I man i'm sorry that this is as [TS]

  hard as it is the I mean I know you knew [TS]

  going into this that were smarter than [TS]

  this [TS]

  yeah yay this is there also a practical [TS]

  side to this though where I don't know [TS]

  when you think about being this is not [TS]

  just a true of a candidate with anybody [TS]

  like if you're desperate to have some [TS]

  thing and it's starting to seem less and [TS]

  less likely that you're going to be able [TS]

  to get it [TS]

  there's a constant and growing [TS]

  temptation to do or attempt more radical [TS]

  things in order to get that thing [TS]

  and this is what i worry about from my [TS]

  opponents was right well here's what I [TS]

  think about that also is that you know [TS]

  that it's almost like I'm trying to [TS]

  imagine like somebody who thinks they [TS]

  can defend themselves by doing some kind [TS]

  of like Daniel karate kick and mainly [TS]

  just blowing up their pants and landing [TS]

  on their face [TS]

  it's like you one might try the most [TS]

  radical thing in the world and it just [TS]

  makes things worse and when you're [TS]

  getting advice from the outside from [TS]

  people who are like go do this and go do [TS]

  that [TS]

  it must be hard to know I mean they're [TS]

  obviously there must be something to [TS]

  come along you know I'm never gonna do [TS]

  that there's no way but other kinds of [TS]

  things like you've talked about the the [TS]

  siren song of getting involved in a [TS]

  certain kind of negativity where you [TS]

  respond to what other people have said [TS]

  to show how you would do that [TS]

  differently or whatever where you [TS]

  basically jump into somebody's at [TS]

  responses publicly to start going in and [TS]

  wrestling around to show how you're [TS]

  different or to like sort of monetize [TS]

  the shot in front of somebody else's bad [TS]

  day which is luring but like does that [TS]

  actually helped is the problem you know [TS]

  and and i think one of the worst and [TS]

  most anxiety producing things is as you [TS]

  feel like you're not getting closer to [TS]

  what is that you want you consider more [TS]

  and more crazy things in order to get [TS]

  there isn't that is not part of the [TS]

  problem and now in your case now you [TS]

  feel like you're someone at risk because [TS]

  somebody else might be in that position [TS]

  well yeah but somebody else is really in [TS]

  that position and you know and i can [TS]

  hear the mantra that other people say to [TS]

  themselves which is you know [TS]

  particularly when it gets down to the [TS]

  wire when they say you know when you [TS]

  look back on this are you gonna feel [TS]

  like you did everything that you could [TS]

  have done [TS]

  do you want to look back at this and and [TS]

  feel like you you didn't pull out all [TS]

  the stops and what that I think for a [TS]

  lot of people means as you near the [TS]

  finish line is if there's somebody [TS]

  running abreast of you or running a [TS]

  little bit ahead of you you triple [TS]

  instead of running your own campaign as [TS]

  well as you can and may the best man win [TS]

  alright maybe you know you know and and [TS]

  in in American politics [TS]

  and politics I guess everywhere there's [TS]

  that it's this healthy dose of like [TS]

  here's my platform here's my campaign [TS]

  and also did you ever see generally look [TS]

  at the other guy didn't really notice [TS]

  how you know [TS]

  did you really notice I was knows a [TS]

  little crooked like theirs theirs that [TS]

  that aspect where it's presented as like [TS]

  a fair comparison [TS]

  you should look at the two two of us and [TS]

  pick the best one but you know but all [TS]

  this Swift boating all this extra [TS]

  information about the other person that [TS]

  isn't true that's the that is just [TS]

  throwing handfuls of sand [TS]

  yeah and you know it speaks to it speaks [TS]

  to the fact that [TS]

  yeah here's an interesting insight i had [TS]

  recently which is that i have i have [TS]

  quite a few friends in Seattle who are [TS]

  old friends in friends more than 20 [TS]

  years who are active in the political [TS]

  chatter there they'll never run for [TS]

  office themselves but they are there [TS]

  chatterers there on the internet there [TS]

  put their public figures they're well [TS]

  known as as members of a kind of like [TS]

  yeah right the Intelligencia then the [TS]

  nattering nabobs and although these [TS]

  friends of mine are you know liberals in [TS]

  every way they're on the wrong side of a [TS]

  couple of issues they were both on the [TS]

  wrong side of fifteen dollars an hour [TS]

  minimum wage because they are business [TS]

  their small business owners and they [TS]

  didn't think about it they thought about [TS]

  it from there from the terms of their [TS]

  own bottom line rather than from the [TS]

  long-term you know not just long-term [TS]

  benefit of everybody but also like they [TS]

  did not sense which way the political [TS]

  winds were blowing [TS]

  and they came out vocally against [TS]

  fifteen dollars an hour at a time and I [TS]

  think they both thought that they were [TS]

  trying to be reasonable small business [TS]

  people but they made public [TS]

  pronouncements and then defended their [TS]

  public pronouncements long after it was [TS]

  clear that the the public wanted fifteen [TS]

  dollars an hour and fifteen dollars an [TS]

  hour was going to be good and that they [TS]

  should have they should make up or they [TS]

  should shut up or they should just you [TS]

  know they should think about it and [TS]

  change their minds [TS]

  well so young political operatives of [TS]

  which there are astonishingly large [TS]

  number four right like there are so many [TS]

  people in the their mid-twenties in the [TS]

  political game and quite a few of them [TS]

  have come up to me and said with a with [TS]

  a like a sneer like a sneer and a spin a [TS]

  and a and a smirk an ugly smirk have [TS]

  said we're very concerned about your [TS]

  relationship with these two guys and my [TS]

  first response was like what do you mean [TS]

  I've known those guys for 25 years [TS]

  they're like my pals [TS]

  well yeah but they're on the wrong side [TS]

  of history there on the wrong side of [TS]

  politics who and I go oh yeah right i [TS]

  mean I totally disagree with them and I [TS]

  disagreed with them at the time and any [TS]

  right-thinking person disagrees with [TS]

  them but now they're like damaged goods [TS]

  now [TS]

  well there but they're still my friend [TS]

  alright lying right handed and and the [TS]

  the ugly smirk was a way of [TS]

  communicating that within the political [TS]

  class it matters less what you say then [TS]

  who your friends are [TS]

  because among those people it is it's [TS]

  considered a more reliable indicator of [TS]

  what you're going to do [TS]

  who your who your friends and associates [TS]

  are then what you're babbling again your [TS]

  back to that that issue that like at [TS]

  least we know what to expect from this [TS]

  guy that's right and so the print so [TS]

  what I derived from that is that the [TS]

  premise is the premise of of the [TS]

  political class is that you are lying [TS]

  when you say things and that what is [TS]

  true is who you break bread with and [TS]

  that was a that was a shock to me right [TS]

  because I right I break bread with [TS]

  everybody and it felt like the whole [TS]

  break bread with that becomes kind of a [TS]

  dog whistle were like if you want to [TS]

  really know what this person is up to [TS]

  look his look is on there [TS]

  look who there that's right now with [TS]

  who's that that's telegraphing a lot [TS]

  more to people than what you say that [TS]

  you're so that is it's a kind of [TS]

  cynicism to say like what we know [TS]

  everybody says what needs to be said [TS]

  that day but let's look over time and [TS]

  who they are they spending time with [TS]

  yeah let's look at who their donors are [TS]

  let's look at who there [TS]

  whoo-hoo speaks on their behalf on [TS]

  facebook you know that's how you judge [TS]

  where a person stands and it's and I i [TS]

  guess for most people who are running [TS]

  for office they've been thinking about [TS]

  this their whole adult lives right there [TS]

  that that they have always made sure [TS]

  that their friends are the right kind of [TS]

  friends or they've all they only [TS]

  associate with people within a narrow [TS]

  band of of on the political spectrum and [TS]

  in the in the the work that we do but [TS]

  somebody like me who spent his whole [TS]

  career in his whole life like sitting [TS]

  down at a table with everybody and a lot [TS]

  of them I a lot of them are people that [TS]

  I love that I think are reprehensible [TS]

  for the idea that you know that that my [TS]

  friendship with them would somehow [TS]

  compromised my my ability to to stand up [TS]

  to them and to everybody and say [TS]

  no here's the right course clearly like [TS]

  this is the like my friends are over [TS]

  here yelling but my friends are [TS]

  ding-a-lings there's the ears the [TS]

  politically like correct decision and [TS]

  that is on that is that is foreign or or [TS]

  I guess you know like have definitely [TS]

  like non-traditional and-and-and-and-and [TS]

  very suspicious to these to these people [TS]

  who think that that think that the [TS]

  languages is is a certain way and what [TS]

  is what has been astonishing are [TS]

  startling to me is that the idea that [TS]

  the candidate is lying is presupposed by [TS]

  is by these up political operatives who [TS]

  who are some in some ways self-appointed [TS]

  and in some ways see themselves as the [TS]

  gatekeepers of this of the of the [TS]

  operation the system and also the only [TS]

  way that one could assume or infer that [TS]

  everybody else is a liar is to first [TS]

  understand and believe and accept that [TS]

  the one is a liar [TS]

  that is right that is so it's the same [TS]

  if my same beef with hypocrisy that the [TS]

  people who are most obsessed with [TS]

  hypocrisy attend either be active [TS]

  hypocrites for people who just sit [TS]

  around waiting to be shown as a [TS]

  hypocrite [TS]

  hypocrite [TS]

  Fred yeah and so the way it takes a [TS]

  certain knows what it takes one to know [TS]

  one kind of thing like you're always [TS]

  sniffing around to be able to expose [TS]

  somebody who has the same flaws and [TS]

  vulnerabilities that you know you have [TS]

  and these are the people leaning in [TS]

  whispering advice to me conspiratorial [TS]

  like these are the people who see [TS]

  themselves as the in a lot of ways like [TS]

  they present themselves as the beacons [TS]

  of integrity they know that they know [TS]

  the the the right decision and and they [TS]

  are judging whether the candidates live [TS]

  up to this expectation but then they [TS]

  reveal that they are liars because they [TS]

  presume everyone else is a liar and then [TS]

  you realize like oh wow it is it's very [TS]

  hard to to enter into this world and not [TS]

  agree to to be a liar and not agree to [TS]

  you not agree to presume that the other [TS]

  guys lying not agree to presume that the [TS]

  that who your friends are says more [TS]

  about how you're going to vote then what [TS]

  you say um and and and ultimately like [TS]

  not agree that having an answer to [TS]

  everything is better than being willing [TS]

  to a to consider all the arguments and [TS]

  it's a and and so there's a month left [TS]

  before the primary and every day I have [TS]

  to wake up and reaffirm these things and [TS]

  reaffirming them is reaffirming them is [TS]

  what allows me to get out of bed and go [TS]

  through the process and it's so it's so [TS]

  divorced from winning from trying to win [TS]

  from doing whatever it takes to win that [TS]

  I feel like I'm running a like i'm i'm [TS]

  i'm running a race [TS]

  but somehow i'm on though like I the the [TS]

  other candidates are running on the [TS]

  track and I'm up in the stands running [TS]

  around like they're on the road and [TS]

  you're in the dirt [TS]

  sort of yeah writer I'm like running I'm [TS]

  running through the trees and swinging [TS]

  through the trees or I'm i'm flying [TS]

  overhead and original that I made myself [TS]

  it's like if you're Mario Kart goes on [TS]

  the rough part of the tracks not gonna [TS]

  go as fast so so I don't know you know [TS]

  and i can i keep saying to the people [TS]

  closest to me like in a month i will [TS]

  either have made it through the primary [TS]

  where which point I will have won an [TS]

  election a kind of an election you know [TS]

  i will have won my first public vote and [TS]

  that will confirm that people that the [TS]

  public doesn't play by the same rules as [TS]

  the political class and that i was able [TS]

  to reach the public and that ultimately [TS]

  the rules of the political class apply [TS]

  only if you allow if you allow them to [TS]

  or i will lose in the primary at which [TS]

  point it proves that the political class [TS]

  knows how knows how the game is played [TS]

  and that is how the game is played and [TS]

  the public does not the public makes [TS]

  choices basis based on the political [TS]

  class and then that will be very [TS]

  instructive and very profound come back [TS]

  the old thing that where you I don't [TS]

  allow yourself to to celebrate victories [TS]

  for more than a couple minutes [TS]

  yeah you've already kinda night yourself [TS]

  the joy of winning this of inhabitants [TS]

  well kool-aid man I didn't say if I one [TS]

  that I was going to buy myself a pair of [TS]

  shoes if I make it through the primary [TS]

  money get a pair of shoes and my mom [TS]

  used to do with me clean my room again [TS]

  Batman costume is it working [TS]

  ru ru you feeling like you're motivated [TS]

  to cut something out of a catalog and [TS]

  put it up how many how many Batman [TS]

  costume did you end up with never got it [TS]

  couldn't keep my room clean [TS]

  oh really OIC so it was a sliding scale [TS]

  it was a like a [TS]

  still see it I can still see in my head [TS]

  we had a piece of posterboard we cut it [TS]

  out i think there was some checking off [TS]

  of boxes into this the perfect kind of [TS]

  textbook way to encourage a hopelessly [TS]

  messy and careless child to to get good [TS]

  at equal cut it out of the Sears catalog [TS]

  it was exactly the bat but the branded [TS]

  Batman costume that I wanted and I [TS]

  really I really really wanted it but [TS]

  apparently not enough that i would clean [TS]

  my room and how how many times did you [TS]

  have to clean your room do you think if [TS]

  you look back [TS]

  how how how long would you have needed [TS]

  to keep your room clean to my head was [TS]

  suppose a month but it was probably more [TS]

  like a week straight or something [TS]

  it's just that I I never hit those goals [TS]

  ever [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah did I ever tell you the [TS]

  story about the time that my mom told me [TS]

  to clean my room and I put all my toys [TS]

  in the closet and shut the door [TS]

  mmm i can guess how that turned out [TS]

  nobody ever told you the story you might [TS]

  have tell it again [TS]

  yeah and then she came in and she looked [TS]

  round she was like a good job and then [TS]

  she opened the closet and saw the toys [TS]

  in there and she jumped in the closet [TS]

  and jumped up and down all right i do [TS]

  remember this all because little pieces [TS]

  she's not a large woman must take a lot [TS]

  of jumping well you know kids toys right [TS]

  i mean it back in truth and oh my gosh [TS]

  that's the worst motivations hard John [TS]

  its ramifications ramifications [TS]

  motivation is difficult it's difficult [TS]

  for me to figure out it's difficult for [TS]

  me to provide everybody gets motivated [TS]

  by such different things [TS]

  what are you motivated by fear [TS]

  ya know honestly like as far as like [TS]

  would do as far as a motivational I [TS]

  think fear is I think that's how we have [TS]

  no no but it's also clarity it takes a [TS]

  certain amount of clarity it depends [TS]

  like what i think of the stuff that i [TS]

  like that i'm doing or do well it's just [TS]

  like there is something nice like today [TS]

  you know we have a podcast we will [TS]

  record this i will edit this i will put [TS]

  it together [TS]

  that's a good feeling for me I like that [TS]

  I feel very motivated to do that [TS]

  particular kind of work because I do [TS]

  actually really enjoy it as far as [TS]

  motivation it'sit's hard as motivation [TS]

  such a slippery word because it [TS]

  encompasses so many different kinds of [TS]

  things that that aren't really [TS]

  motivating right it's it's more like [TS]

  what are you running away from rather [TS]

  like what are you running to war [TS]

  so I don't know it's funny because I I [TS]

  do feel like you know one way that I am [TS]

  a simple and and fault tolerant person [TS]

  is that I do my best when I'm feeling [TS]

  good about what I'm doing and when I [TS]

  feel like you know I'm succeeding and [TS]

  things like that you know from there are [TS]

  other people who love being down in the [TS]

  count [TS]

  they love you know that feeling of like [TS]

  oh I can power through this and you know [TS]

  i'm good at that sometimes I don't know [TS]

  it's hard to know I did this is this is [TS]

  a good question what motivates you [TS]

  you're not supposed to exhale when you [TS]

  ask but you know what motivates me [TS]

  um I mean that's the that's what's so [TS]

  wonderful about having done this podcast [TS]

  now for a hundred and fifty plus [TS]

  episodes is that it is it's one of those [TS]

  rare things that is its own reward [TS]

  who and what has always motivated me is [TS]

  the is the hope that I would discover a [TS]

  life which was its own reward and the [TS]

  feeling that the expectation that that [TS]

  that life should be its own reward [TS]

  and that's why why I've had such a [TS]

  complicated relationship with work my [TS]

  whole life because the because i watched [TS]

  the adults in my life really practice at [TS]

  really practice the be the belief that [TS]

  work was this thing that you did in [TS]

  order to provide opportunity to provide [TS]

  opportunities for pleasure or relaxation [TS]

  later you know that have that yeah kinda [TS]

  kind of a Protestant work ethic idea [TS]

  Yeah right there there was no sense that [TS]

  that work was its own reward that life [TS]

  was its own reward [TS]

  even though i'm sure that it was [TS]

  I'm sure that the adults in in my life [TS]

  when I was a kid were enjoying the [TS]

  challenges of work and the teachers in [TS]

  my school were enjoy you know where were [TS]

  we're we're teaching us that we could go [TS]

  to work and enjoy it but I don't [TS]

  remember anyone in school saying you [TS]

  know you're gonna find a job that you're [TS]

  going to love nobody nobody would ever [TS]

  put that anywhere near the top of the [TS]

  list [TS]

  I knew it was much more the way that [TS]

  people treated being married and in [TS]

  another decade or century which is like [TS]

  well you need to get along with this [TS]

  person and if things work out well [TS]

  youyou might be kind of in love for a [TS]

  long time but it was but I mean anybody [TS]

  sensible would say well you know don't [TS]

  just marry the first person you have a [TS]

  crush on this is this is work right in [TS]

  that sense but the e-cigarette well a [TS]

  nap and I think I mean in a way we were [TS]

  the first generation that didn't marry [TS]

  the first person they had a crush on [TS]

  right that was it that was a new ya [TS]

  around a new thought technology for us [TS]

  even the even the baby boomers they [TS]

  rebelled against it but the way they [TS]

  were taught by my mom found it doubly [TS]

  confounding and now may I see why my mom [TS]

  being somebody who graduated from high [TS]

  school in 1952 I believe 5256 maybe you [TS]

  have my 56 but anyway but she found two [TS]

  things that now I realize why she [TS]

  finally on the one hand she thought it [TS]

  was so strange that that I and all of my [TS]

  friends everybody I knew nobody knew [TS]

  dated to me there was no such thing as [TS]

  dating when I was in high school that [TS]

  seemed weird and slutty to me that I [TS]

  would be somebody who would go out and [TS]

  like even if it was just going to the [TS]

  skating rink I did not know anybody who [TS]

  went on dates in the conventional cell [TS]

  went out together as again [TS]

  well that could be it but the funny this [TS]

  is this is the weird irony is that for [TS]

  me it was more like getting a girlfriend [TS]

  or someone is getting a boyfriend or [TS]

  whatever it was it was this like it this [TS]

  constant yearning for stable monogamy [TS]

  when I was in high school junior high [TS]

  no dice there but let's just say high [TS]

  school on the one hand like so much like [TS]

  you know serial monogamy where you [TS]

  nobody would date you would have a [TS]

  boyfriend/girlfriend need break up [TS]

  anytime you have another boyfriend [TS]

  girlfriend and then did the normal state [TS]

  was your either seeking that person from [TS]

  monogamy or you're in the monogamous [TS]

  thing [TS]

  not everybody but i would say the vast [TS]

  majority of people i knew that that's [TS]

  what they wanted that's what they [TS]

  sometimes God but at the same time I had [TS]

  zero interest in getting married and I [TS]

  thought that was really weird I thought [TS]

  was very strange so my mom thought was [TS]

  strange that i wasn't like trying to you [TS]

  know meet more people do different [TS]

  things you know be exposed in people [TS]

  from different places maybe not from [TS]

  school no interest to me like I wanted [TS]

  that girl in my class to like me and [TS]

  then be my girlfriend [TS]

  whereas then of course like her [TS]

  generation it was all about getting [TS]

  married and nothing my mom was some kind [TS]

  of automaton or something but i think [TS]

  that was really expected of people was [TS]

  that you're going to get married you're [TS]

  going to have kids and just look at the [TS]

  questions that anybody under 30 kids ask [TS]

  look at the cascade of questions and I [TS]

  really felt this in Florida big time I [TS]

  mean first we know do you have a [TS]

  girlfriend when you're okay are you [TS]

  gonna get engaged [TS]

  ok gonna get married and have a kid and [TS]

  you can have three more kids like [TS]

  nobody's ever satisfied with the [TS]

  progress on becoming the person they'd [TS]

  like you to be you're never far enough [TS]

  along so anyway I'm just saying I my [TS]

  eyes I see my mom's point of view now [TS]

  and I see the the paradox of that that [TS]

  creating all this monogamy at a time i'm [TS]

  supposed to be exposed to all these [TS]

  different people now and continue then [TS]

  after high school but i never was into [TS]

  the idea of dating it seemed like a lot [TS]

  of overhead [TS]

  oh my god but ended so what's your story [TS]

  uh like you're like for example with [TS]

  your parents like what did you if I [TS]

  could ask where did your parents meet oh [TS]

  you know my mom my mom was in college [TS]

  no no you know my dad was 44 solar ya [TS]

  right ya know my dad was already [TS]

  divorced from his first wife and he had [TS]

  three kids and was living in seattle and [TS]

  was kind of a player here in the in the [TS]

  legal world in the political world sort [TS]

  of big man on campus right in and my mom [TS]

  was had graduated from Ohio State and [TS]

  was living in columbus and you are [TS]

  living a pretty high style mad men era [TS]

  life she worked at a television station [TS]

  she knew a lot of people in the arts [TS]

  world and you know when her boyfriend [TS]

  was Jewish and so she was part of a sort [TS]

  of Jewish a subculture in ohio which is [TS]

  a huge you know huge subculture there at [TS]

  that's that's sort of the way she's [TS]

  always described its you know funnier [TS]

  and more little racier a little more [TS]

  artistic than your normal columbus crowd [TS]

  and they all drove foreign sports cars [TS]

  which in the fifties were very exotic [TS]

  you know Morgan's and Austin Healey's [TS]

  and that was kind of hircine and then [TS]

  she decided that she wanted to see the [TS]

  world and she loaded everything in her [TS]

  53 Chevy and I'm not sure it's a 53 [TS]

  Chevy I have a picture of it on my [TS]

  mantel i'm pretty sure something like [TS]

  that and she headed west to and her [TS]

  first up was Seattle because she was [TS]

  going to visit a friend and then she was [TS]

  gonna head down to san francisco and [TS]

  then all points beyond right then she's [TS]

  going to get on a ship and go to Japan [TS]

  and you know and around the world [TS]

  sounds like up yeah like you know like [TS]

  she she she was the first she was the [TS]

  kind of the only person from her little [TS]

  group to get out of her small town and [TS]

  then she was leaving columbus in the [TS]

  same way like I'm gonna go see the world [TS]

  i'm not going to be tied down to Ohio [TS]

  and she showed up in Seattle and her [TS]

  friend she met up with her friend and [TS]

  her friend was dating a guy and that guy [TS]

  brought along his friend my dad as a [TS]

  blind date for for this girl that was [TS]

  coming from Ohio and they started to [TS]

  date and my dad I think i guess i'm at a [TS]

  certain point she became his legal [TS]

  secretary she was working for the Alaska [TS]

  steamship company for a while but they [TS]

  you know they had a [TS]

  like a courtship late fifties style my [TS]

  dad had a Jaguar so it fit in with her [TS]

  foreign car like culture and he was a [TS]

  lawyer and dependable and a politician [TS]

  and you know she describes seattle at [TS]

  the time in the for the late fifties is [TS]

  pretty small town and my dad knew [TS]

  everybody and he was one of these guys [TS]

  that you know you'd get on a boat you [TS]

  get on a steamship and dad would just [TS]

  sort of waltz into the bridge introduced [TS]

  himself to the captain and pretty soon [TS]

  you know my mom would be steering the [TS]

  boat for her because you know dad just [TS]

  had that so like really about you hit [TS]

  like Ray Liotta you know walking into [TS]

  the club [TS]

  yeah exactly just sort of he just so you [TS]

  know he waltzed around but also he my [TS]

  dad you know they were on weekends they [TS]

  would go drive around the northwest and [TS]

  so they they saw all the you know Grand [TS]

  Coulee Dam and all these things them as [TS]

  part of their courtship and he was [TS]

  drinking at the time i mean it was [TS]

  variable one I told you I think that my [TS]

  mom tried to watch Mad Men and she [TS]

  couldn't watch it after a couple of [TS]

  episodes because all she could tell she [TS]

  could see was all the details that [TS]

  they've gotten wrong but you know that [TS]

  that first two seasons of mad men was [TS]

  really the era exactly the era when my [TS]

  mom and dad met and you know him he was [TS]

  a successful lawyer and politician and [TS]

  so but he was already divorced and she [TS]

  was a very independent-minded woman she [TS]

  was not gonna do [TS]

  she wasn't going to do what was expected [TS]

  of her [TS]

  and yet even so the pressure the social [TS]

  pressure of the sixties who was still [TS]

  intact and it still put them together in [TS]

  a marriage where even though my mom was [TS]

  effectively like a [TS]

  like a a mage level account [TS]

  my father was in charge of the checkbook [TS]

  and my father was somebody that you know [TS]

  if you if you if you put him in a room [TS]

  and you said here's a cupcake but if you [TS]

  can wait for an hour you get two [TS]

  cupcakes you would open the door in 30 [TS]

  seconds and my dad would be covered in [TS]

  cupcake frosting and that inhabited [TS]

  stripped off all his clothes so there [TS]

  was no you know so those the the social [TS]

  expectations the gender roles even [TS]

  though both of my folks were so [TS]

  independent minded they couldn't escape [TS]

  the the gravity of those roles in that [TS]

  time and you know and as soon as the [TS]

  seventies arrived and there were social [TS]

  movements that allowed my mom to achieve [TS]

  escape velocity like she took that route [TS]

  as fast as she could and my dad was just [TS]

  enough older that he never really fully [TS]

  was able to to adapt I get the feeling [TS]

  that this seems pretty broad but I get [TS]

  the feeling that you know we can look at [TS]

  the photos and we can look at the watch [TS]

  the movies but it's I think it's [TS]

  probably pretty hard to capture how we [TS]

  can you know take a drink how much [TS]

  Germany there was in the fifties just [TS]

  how much how much people were not just [TS]

  expected to like have a certain haircut [TS]

  or drink a certain drink or whatever but [TS]

  i think the part that gets left out is [TS]

  you get that pressure from everybody [TS]

  around you there's also constantly this [TS]

  clock ticking like especially for a [TS]

  woman and I i think it's easy to [TS]

  overlook we see that the old gosh why [TS]

  did you do that and the thing that's I [TS]

  think sometimes difficult to articulate [TS]

  is this sense that you're not where you [TS]

  should be yet and it's starting to show [TS]

  and the more that it starts to show the [TS]

  harder it is to get where you're [TS]

  supposed to be i know that's a pretty [TS]

  sure that's true in venture capital [TS]

  projects and I think that's probably [TS]

  true for a lot of men and especially [TS]

  women and in the fifties you know i mean [TS]

  in my case my mom had a long story short [TS]

  it took a long time for her to have a [TS]

  kid took her you know 10 years of trying [TS]

  and the idea of a woman of thirty having [TS]

  her first baby was like the craziest [TS]

  idea not the craziest but like it was [TS]

  definitely pretty out there to be at [TS]

  that advanced stage and having your [TS]

  first child and which i think is [TS]

  indicative of the kind of pressure [TS]

  people felt was like even know try as [TS]

  hard as you might you're swimming [TS]

  against the stream there's this constant [TS]

  pressure not only to be this way but [TS]

  also the idea that like hey these [TS]

  opportunities are not going to be there [TS]

  forever you better you better get [TS]

  yourself a new brazier put on some [TS]

  lipstick and get out there [TS]

  I mean I think about that every day I [TS]

  mean I need to put on some lipstick roof [TS]

  and get out there because i have [TS]

  somebody said to me the other day it and [TS]

  and it it was so arresting it was [TS]

  another one of these young political [TS]

  people and he was talking about you know [TS]

  needing more diversity in the candidates [TS]

  and and in that sense I'm very lucky [TS]

  because i'm running in a race where it's [TS]

  just for white guys and so I am the [TS]

  diverse candidate but he you know he was [TS]

  like we need more you know more gender [TS]

  diversity more you know more racial [TS]

  diversity and he kind of like gesture at [TS]

  me and said and more age diversity and [TS]

  oh my god [TS]

  it took me a second to realize that what [TS]

  he was saying was that i was the age of [TS]

  a typical candidate and what we needed [TS]

  was younger candidates I'm that man and [TS]

  that being 35 was preferable to being 45 [TS]

  because um because something because [TS]

  youth is the new that youth is also a [TS]

  thing that is discriminated against and [TS]

  I was like it and it did it took me a [TS]

  second to realize that at [TS]

  46 years old that I had I had crossed a [TS]

  threshold to people in their twenties [TS]

  where I was just an indeterminate age I [TS]

  was some times when I was such a good [TS]

  way to put it it's like it's a girl it's [TS]

  almost like with little kids where [TS]

  you've got kids that are there you [TS]

  consider younger consider their age big [TS]

  kids old kids adults and old people [TS]

  yeah it's like there's no difference [TS]

  between states 28 and 48 right and not [TS]

  really a to a little kid there's not to [TS]

  a twenty-eight-year-old a [TS]

  twenty-eight-year-old still imagines [TS]

  that they are an eighteen-year-old but [TS]

  that 35 and older is is just old and and [TS]

  you know and you you you you always are [TS]

  pushing back that curtain a little bit [TS]

  but when you get to be 46 and you [TS]

  realize like oh when I read in the [TS]

  newspaper about somebody that's 50 years [TS]

  old they're basically talking about the [TS]

  people that were seniors in high school [TS]

  when I was a freshman her and you know [TS]

  and I am closer I'm closer to 60 then I [TS]

  am 225 and yeah I that that is an act in [TS]

  some ways an accurate assessment and [TS]

  that and yet we and again it's the it's [TS]

  the funny business of the the of the [TS]

  generations because my dad's generation [TS]

  you became an adult when you were 18 and [TS]

  then you very very definitely joined a [TS]

  pool of adulthood where there wasn't [TS]

  such a thing as young adults it was you [TS]

  know you could be just starting out but [TS]

  if you look at pictures of of people in [TS]

  their thirties in the nineteen thirties [TS]

  they are trying desperately to look old [TS]

  right right and it was really the baby [TS]

  boomers that were the first generation [TS]

  that made any distinction between being [TS]

  30 and being 50 right then this but they [TS]

  say they say that the the whole concept [TS]

  of being a teenager was invented in [TS]

  something like colonial times but i [TS]

  think it's it's really feels like an [TS]

  armchair observer it really feels like [TS]

  the the fifties late forties early [TS]

  fifties or when they're really caught on [TS]

  partly because a market right but here [TS]

  in affluent society now there was a new [TS]

  source of spending inside the family so [TS]

  that your cater to and they're all kinds [TS]

  of things that were you know and also a [TS]

  time when you could then that come on [TS]

  your kids being a little safer by [TS]

  participating in these certain kinds of [TS]

  activities he didn't want to go straight [TS]

  into the army you been in the Army and [TS]

  you know what that was like that kind of [TS]

  stuff right but like we so in a [TS]

  hunter-gatherer society i am at the end [TS]

  of my usable life my useful lifespan [TS]

  right at 46 years old I am no longer [TS]

  able to spend a lot of time on this is [TS]

  crazy this is a crazy thing to get into [TS]

  right now but I've spent a lot of time [TS]

  in the last few days crouching in the [TS]

  dirt looking out over a mountain valley [TS]

  and imagining myself not in prehistoric [TS]

  times but imagining myself now but as a [TS]

  subsistence hunter and i have my have my [TS]

  lady's with me on the trail and i am you [TS]

  know and I'm meeting to keep this tribe [TS]

  going over you know defended against [TS]

  wild animals other humans probably give [TS]

  find food and we know working together [TS]

  as a tribe but with the knowledge that [TS]

  one of us is four years old and [TS]

  realizing that at 46 years old I am less [TS]

  useful to this tribe that I would have [TS]

  been at 26 years old and if this tribe [TS]

  were were a little bit bigger if there [TS]

  were 10 of us or 15 of us that would be [TS]

  much better but i would still be I [TS]

  wouldn't be I'm not so old that I would [TS]

  be slowing us down for but you know my i [TS]

  would not be with a spear out at the [TS]

  leading edge [TS]

  either against a bear or another tribe [TS]

  you know i would i would have died i [TS]

  have a lot more strategy i have a lot [TS]

  more plan but I'm a lot less you know my [TS]

  knees are bad right right and so that [TS]

  awareness of like the the tipping point [TS]

  at in their mid-forties where your eyes [TS]

  go bad your your joints go bad and [TS]

  you're like oh shit and if I if we were [TS]

  on the Savannah you know I'm kind of i'm [TS]

  a drag now I basically be used to bait [TS]

  traps [TS]

  uh-hum that so that knowledge but also [TS]

  in the context of us kind of being the [TS]

  first or second generation really the [TS]

  first generation that was raised all [TS]

  along with the idea that there wasn't [TS]

  just a static adulthood but that you [TS]

  weren't supposed to trust anybody under [TS]

  30 and then 40 was the new 30 and then [TS]

  you know 45 is the new thirty five were [TS]

  the first people that have ever talked [TS]

  like that and it's and it's crazy and it [TS]

  reflects how desperately we don't know [TS]

  how to that we took away graceful [TS]

  adulthood and replaced it with this [TS]

  consumerist striving youth-obsessed [TS]

  desperate feeling all the time and now [TS]

  kinda where the where the test case [TS]

  again this dumb generation x that nobody [TS]

  likes that it turned out was a lot [TS]

  smaller than we thought and less [TS]

  influential than we thought and we're [TS]

  out here kind of baking in the hot Sun [TS]

  trying to figure out like how do you be [TS]

  45 like the yuppies did it in the [TS]

  grossest way possible they were terrible [TS]

  in their forties and where the next you [TS]

  know the next ones to come along you [TS]

  think about my dad's generation by the [TS]

  time they're in their forties they were [TS]

  I mean they had done so much they rot so [TS]

  much devastation but they weren't [TS]

  thinking about their age in the same way [TS]

  and and they [TS]

  shocked when their children said don't [TS]

  trust anyone over 30 you know they were [TS]

  horrified and now you know Here I am way [TS]

  way over 34 when they hanging out with [TS]

  the wrong people hanging out with the [TS]

  wrong people when they build the AI love [TS]

  you and me from this podcast they're [TS]

  gonna be such boring crotchety guys [TS]

  saggy pants i disagree i think the AI [TS]

  that they come up with if they are is [TS]

  not just see I think I'm if I'm i say i [TS]

  think you might have a failure of [TS]

  imagination here we're not talking about [TS]

  robots that think and talk like us relay [TS]

  I would be able to take the stuff that [TS]

  we're not articulating well and make it [TS]

  a lot smarter and they would be able to [TS]

  draw connections like we're pretty good [TS]

  at certain parts of this but we really [TS]

  need a super smart robot that will be [TS]

  able to go and connect all the dots [TS]

  think what you could do with something [TS]

  like that i love that you pronounce a [TS]

  robot not just anything i'm doing i [TS]

  think it's so good and it really isit's [TS]

  it is a robot that we're building it's a [TS]

  robot and that that's what I i don't i [TS]

  do not want a robot i do want a robot oh [TS]

  man like a cling clang like actually [TS]

  like with like a body made at n stuff i [TS]

  may be so much more into that with a [TS]

  little funnel for a hat I don't want I [TS]

  don't want like a like a real doll that [TS]

  walks not interested [TS]

  like i mentioned the real thing at all [TS]

  like the dead rubber girl but like to [TS]

  have an actual like nineteen fifties [TS]

  like forties maybe thirties idea of a [TS]

  robot that's the robot for me that we [TS]

  actually says clink clank when he walks [TS]

  around going Clank Clank Clank I feel [TS]

  like my desire to not be around other [TS]

  people that much really extends to [TS]

  robots like if you tell them that it [TS]

  wouldn't hurt their feelings [TS]

  well but that's the thing it because of [TS]

  the because of the anthropomorphic [TS]

  sizing that I do it isn't the robots [TS]

  feelings that I be worried about its my [TS]

  own transference of feeling into the [TS]

  robot the act of smirnoff problem that's [TS]

  exactly right [TS]

  so-so [TS]

  so just having it in the house even if [TS]

  it was turned off i would feel social [TS]

  pressure to turn it on interact with it [TS]

  hit bad feelings if you have ill [TS]

  feelings or guilty feelings about your [TS]

  clothing imagine imagine a computer that [TS]

  walks [TS]

  yeah it's an edge off imagine how bad i [TS]

  would feel I mean even like that's why [TS]

  I've never turned on Cirie I'll really [TS]

  because i do not want to interact I did [TS]

  not want to have an interaction with the [TS]

  thing where I could disappointed its [TS]

  ramifications [TS]

  [Music] [TS]