Roderick on the Line

00:00:00 ◼   ► this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:00:01 ◼   ► brought to you by Casper Casper is an [TS]

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00:00:09 ◼   ► stores to learn more visit Casper calm / [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► supertrain [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► hello hi John [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► hi Merlin was goin it's good i'm just [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► sitting here looking at my skype a [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► account here and it seems like squirting [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► dot flirts 3 has tried to connect with [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► me is a nice guy you should totally [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► accept it [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► squirting flirts 30 sorry scoring [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► threats 33 m now in scoring first nine [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► is a regular guy [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► yeah well I'm not sure whether so skype [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► offers me he's got just a leg avatar but [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► skype says I can block him to decline [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► the connection or accept it [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► what do I lean toward I mean block and [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► decline are both just died of a kind of [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► having a hard time deciding between the [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► two except feels a little bit close [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► I don't I feel like yeah he wants to [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► connect with me a lot of people want to [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► connect with me i don't i don't accept [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► all those offers but i'm not sure i want [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► to block him [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► yeah I mean it's kind of provocative to [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► block yeah right it seems like I know [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► something about this person from their [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► name squirting flirts 3i know enough to [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► block them you know you think maybe [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► maybe he had a grandfather and father [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► that were the began the tradition [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► there's somebody Florence's yeah like [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► squirting squirts senior squirting [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► flirts jr. that's like a terrible comic [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► book i think i'm going to decline let's [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► just get this off the table [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► yeah you know Merlin it may surprise you [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► to know that there are a lot of people [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► who are very invested in conventional [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► narratives there are a lot of people who [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► are very invested in conventional [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► narrative that's what makes them [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► conventional narratives oh yeah see it's [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► all the investment of all those people [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► little bit of drift here can you can [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► give me some help [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► food well here I haven't got a clue you [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► know just very open with squirting [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► flirts [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► yeah 3 um yeah according to 340 got to [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► learn about in like a like a literary [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► tradition or like understanding how the [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► world works yeah I feel like I feel like [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► conventional narrative [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► gives it a in terms of understanding how [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► the world works in terms of applying our [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► our muscle our human muscle to making [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► the world better conventional narratives [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► tend to dominate over say old alternate [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► alternative narratives ok let's that's [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► all that's all that's all I'm saying [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► point goes to John right i mean that's [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► that's not a not a tennis match it's an [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► example of an unconventional narrative [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► unconventional narratives you mean like [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► where this story people are looking for [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► certain kinds of templates for how [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► things go with good guys and bad guys [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► and yeah endings and comebacks and stuff [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► yeah yeah I think I think the one that [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► that gets that gets me more often than [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► not is the is the is the cult of [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► expertise we've talked about this the [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► idea in American life that that there [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► are experts and those experts have [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► special knowledge but by virtue of their [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► of their expertise their education and [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► their their experience and of course [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► there are experts of course there is [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► specialized knowledge but we-we-we give [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► experts that the transference principal [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► too often applies right that that [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► because someone is an expert in mollusks [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► say we assume that they are an expert in [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► a in all the biological sciences or we [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► assume that with it we we allow them to [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► speak on behalf of all French people [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► right because they are an expert in [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► mollusks we presume that they can speak [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► for french people and it rather than [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► find just a normal French person or a [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► couple of French people maybe without [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► even exactly checking their credentials [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► as a mollusk expert right and that's the [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► other thing like what does it take to be [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► a mosque experts right is there a lot of [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► competition [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► I mean I've seen a lot of people get [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► through [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► many many years of college who who are [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► barely barely capable of remembering to [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► breathe regularly right i mean they have [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► to stay have to have to have to remind [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► themselves [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► breathe in breathe out but they have [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► advanced degrees and I think I mean not [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► i'm sure i am absolutely certain looking [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► at the demographics of our listeners [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► that they're out there somewhere right [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► now is a mollusk expert listen people [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► don't have to speak up right and i bet [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► you boys and your out your sweaty flirt [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► I think that bismallah can squirt I [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► think no that's right and what is a [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► mollusk word called the flirts alright [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► that's from the French yeah so maybe [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► squirting flirts was trying maybe that's [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► I don't know maybe maybe this is a [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► little time travel a little ripping the [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► time-travel scheme where I was like who [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► I was talking to squirt influence in the [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► future and now i'm going to not back in [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► the past and he's here to kill Sarah [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► Connor come with me if you want to get [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► better you French maybe yeah no time [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► must write i bet you that the mollusk [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► expert the contacts us lives in Tasmania [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► mmm i think we still got pretty deep [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► penetration with the Germans yeah but [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► you know the Germans I think the Germans [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► listen to podcasts I think they do and I [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► think that they like mollusks and I [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► don't know why the French get all the [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► mollusk eating credit [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► yeah right the Germans they have a [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► famine ocean-front emotion from property [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► yeah they mostly use it to build v2 [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► rockets but i have found myself moving [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► into now that I do cancel Chancellor [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► kisa my whole way of thinking about the [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► world is becoming really interesting [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► here now is it true that he is argument [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► to do [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► no I don't think so no but you know I [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► can't wait to get together but oh my god [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► I'm so looking forward to that on but I [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► don't know I this is something that's [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► kind of dog me for a long time is you [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► know all the various kinds of 21 think [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► of them as logical fallacies or [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► cognitive biases but like all things [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► that we walk around automatically [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► thinking and doing without ever really [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► value [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► anything like whether they're true or [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► like why we might be getting it wrong [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► because i think it has it has [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► consequences you know its ramifications [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► you know in the same way that are kind [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► of poor thinking can lead us to feel [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► anxious and depressed I think poor [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► thinking whether that's as a person or [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► citizen or whatever logical fallacies or [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► was the other one [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► cognitive disconnects no idea biases [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► Yaga Tobias's and I mean you take [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► something as it's one of those things [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► that's always hiding in plain sight and [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► why bring it up here is something like [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► the confirmation bias which is the idea [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► that you tend to seek out information [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► you seek out and then believe [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► information that confirms what you [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► believe [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► rather than makes you doubt what you [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► believe which i think is there's [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► probably a tribal impulse for like why [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► we do that in a lot of ways there's a [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► self-preservation aspect to that whether [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► its preservation of life for yourself [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► I think there's reasons I'm sorry [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► selling french philosopher but like I've [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► been thinking about this a lot because [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► we talked about like conventional and [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► unconventional narratives I think that's [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► because they're or reliance on experts [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► and certainly there's the appeal to [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► Authority all those different kinds of [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► logical fallacies we're like everything [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► all the pieces in our world stay fit [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► together much easier if we can find the [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► stories that keep telling us what we [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► already think or tell us what we already [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► believe what you tell us what we already [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► reckon then I mean I know this isn't far [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► from the first person to bring this up [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► but once you start really thinking about [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► those things and you can you kind of [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► have to think about those things because [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► you're you're fighting inertia or [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► momentum or velocity your but you've got [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► it you've got to fight all of those [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► narratives or counter those narratives [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► everyday like do you really want the [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► weird rock and roll candidate well first [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► of all let's talk about whether i really [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► am the weird rock and roll can didn't [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► remember but i don't know it because I I [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► don't know I'm starting to think more [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► and more that like that a certain kind [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► of self-doubt is a very healthy thing to [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► have [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► well and self-doubt is precisely the [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► thing that we do not have a culturally [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► away to a prize or or or rate you know [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► like self doubt it [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► in politics there's no room for [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► self-doubt they're just it and and the [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► the more successful you know the the [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► bigger the race and the more successful [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► the [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► home of politicians you get into the [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► more all of their self-doubt is all of [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► their expressed self-doubt is couched in [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► this sort of like here is the [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► self-effacement part of the program [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► where it turns out at the end that [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► self-effacement is actually a charming [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► uh you know charming strength that the [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► candidate has there's there's there's no [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► there's no opportunity for someone [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► running for public office to genuinely [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► say not only do I not know but i may be [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► wrong right and I'm and that's that that [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► sounds that sounds like trouble [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► yeah right and and and so you put [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► somebody up you know you put somebody up [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► at a an elector and they say well not [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► only do I not know about that but i but [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► I have some feelings about it and I may [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► be wrong you sound like an ignorant [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► dummy you selling somebody who doesn't [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► know about something and it's surprising [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► that you would even minute that like [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► that shows that you're not particularly [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► bright yeah and then the next you know [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► then your opponent stands up and says I [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► know about this and I've definitely not [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► wrong and everybody applauds and in [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► every other aspect of life and [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► particularly like the way that that [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► we're trending we want people to be able [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► to say I mean this is kind of the whole [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► the whole question about the way that we [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► are sort of lecturing ourselves now and [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► and and really pointedly engaging people [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► when they speak ignorantly or or [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► insensitively and saying like know you [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► you know not acceptable you have to you [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► have to wonder are we do we genuinely [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► hope that they change or are we just [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► trying to we're just trying to destroy [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► people that are that would disagree with [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► us and I believe we hope we actually [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► hope that they can change but that [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► present that that then requires of us [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► that we accept it when people say I was [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► wrong right I was wrong and I've thought [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► about it and I've talked to a lot of [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► people I've read some things I realized [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► I was wrong it's hard for me to make [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► this change [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► and I'm trying to make this change and [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► so we have to allow for that we have to [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► accept it and too often you get people [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► that I I feel like we have this like a [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► bicameral tendency to say you're wrong [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► and you need to learn and the person [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► goes well I'm I you're right and I'm [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► trying to learn and then we said nobody [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► can change but why would expect you to [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► say that [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► yeah you can't really change and so what [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► it turns out is that we don't we're not [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► trying to educate check people or make [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► the world better we're just trying to [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► identify heretics [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► well that's part of what makes that [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► statement which may be true but it may [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► be a true statement sometimes but still [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► it really makes me pressing when people [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► say you know wow [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► whether it's something about raising [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► awareness or it's about education and I [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► feel like the second one in particular [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► is a real code word maybe might be a [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► kind of dog whistle which is that more [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► people need to think like like I do what [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► that really means because because I [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► don't think in your kind of getting at [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► one of the bias problems which is that [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► when we go out there and educate the [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► world what we're really i mean how much [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► are we learning three new things for [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► everything that we teach somebody else [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► oh yeah because we're sure interested in [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► getting everybody else fixed but like [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► where we're so certain about that need [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► for that education that we may be [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► closing out a lot of information that [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► can educate us it's true and you know [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► one of the things over the years right [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► that has characterized me is the fact [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► that i speak very emphatically right I [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► say when I say something I say it in a [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► tone of voice and with the phraseology [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► that suggests that i am and i'm very [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► confident about what I'm saying and at [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► as listeners to our program no I say [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► things confidently and then I say other [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► things confidently and that confidence [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► is is is a tone and it's also probably a [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► defense mechanism that I learned as a [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► kid to you know to to to masquerade as [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► confidence or whatever but it sells at [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► all and also stems from like I'm [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► thinking across a lot of terrain but i'm [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► also wrong i'm often wrong deeply [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► profoundly wrong [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► and a lot of that I a lot of that [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► emphatically speaking is really a [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► projection of the fact that the voices [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► in my head or you know my my my [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► relationship with myself [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► yes it is extremely self critical so [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► there are there's a chorus of voices [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► saying you are wrong all the time to be [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► and once when I say something out loud [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► that seems like I'm pretty you know I'm [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► definitive like you've always thought [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► that and always will and everybody [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► should agree is the implication [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► yeah but in fact you know I'm just [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► trying to shout down all the different [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► people all the different means who are [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► saying you should go back you should [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► crawl back into the hole he came out and [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► so but you know to to be in your forties [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► and to continue to be flexible and [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► continue to say like I I know more now [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► than I did even a year ago about so many [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► things and some of those things really [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► challenged stuff i had thought for [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► decades [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► I mean but because you know just because [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► those things were challenging doesn't [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► mean I stuck my head in the ground and [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► now I've changed the way I think about [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► stuff but to took to go up and stand on [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► the you know in public and say that when [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► you're next to people who are who are [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► saying I've always felt this way I [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► always will feel this way this is the [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► this is the only way to feel which is [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► you know kind of what we ask of [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► candidates you have one minute to speak [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► shower us with confidence and make us [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► feel like make us feel like you are [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► deeply capable and and full of expertise [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► so you know the conventional narrative [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► of who we want to lead us is that we [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► want you know we want leaders without [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► doubt right and then but in every other [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► aspect of life we recognize that people [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► without doubt our are dangerous people [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► without doubt our are unhealthy both [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► they are personally unhealthy and [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► they're unhealthy for us like never [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► follow a leader that doesn't express [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► doubt seems to be something we should [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► teach we should teach ourselves and [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► teach our kids because it i'm trying to [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► think of the implications of that and I [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► can't get away from the personal aspect [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► of this which is that we feel like [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► everybody else should be endlessly [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► flexible about learning the things that [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► we're flexible about but I think on a [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► personal level [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► yeah and so the problem is though if you [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► had a candidate for public figure or [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► somebody who was there aren't that many [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► people in a position of power who are [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► doing what you what you're saying [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► because they may like that personally in [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► somebody who's being who they are [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► correcting but they wouldn't want that [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► in a leader you know you wouldn't want [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► because that got you pretty soon you go [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► straight from I'm trying to keep an open [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► mind and learn to you know evolve and [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► adapt you go straight from that to like [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► well you're a flip-flopper [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► yeah a flip-flopper or somebody you know [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► without those without those true [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► convictions you still you still [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► developing you're not ready to be a [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► leader yet because you're still figuring [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► all this out [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► you're still figuring it out that's [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► right and to get back to us when you [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► have it all figured out that it's [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► exactly right and and and and the idea [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► that we the idea that there is such a [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► thing right i mean they're absolutely [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► our experts about mollusks you just get [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► it they just not only have they studied [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► all them the molesky mean [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► valves all the valves they know all I [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► valves you get your other valves but [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► they also get them you know what I mean [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► like they feel they they have a they [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► were just made to know about mollusks [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► and they you know they rise to the top [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► of their field but but they have a very [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► very [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► constrained realm of knowledge right [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► they know about a thing they know about [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► this thing and that's also true [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► that's also true in the realms of public [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► policy and law and you know there are [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► people that are just expert tort lawyers [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► and there are people that are expert a [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► transportation engineers and and when [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► that would we talked about this when i [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► went on that USO tour where you get [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► these lieutenant Colonel's that just [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► experts in being a lieutenant colonel in [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► the US Air Force like you know so much [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► more I mean you as a kid you could [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► identify plane shapes you know planes by [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► the shape in the sky [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► you know more about ships and planes [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► then certain probably ninety percent of [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► americans but you know less about the [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► specifics than any of the people on that [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► base right way way less about about [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► certain you know like I walked in to [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► those bases and I was like so you know [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► that m60 and everybody laughed we [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► haven't used as a 30-year yeah that's [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► right just like shit but you know but [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► what happens is that you take that [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► lieutenant colonel in the US Air Force [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► who knows absolutely everything about [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► being a lieutenant colonel in the US Air [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► Force and you put him up against and [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► then he decides to run for the US House [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► of Representatives and he's running [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► against somebody who you know let it [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► isn't even an artist but let's just say [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► is somebody who's had his run-up series [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► of a you know a series of successful [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► businesses is a you know is a [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► cross-country bicycle racer and you know [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► in a father of four and and a member of [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► the Kiwanis Club and and the [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► lieutenant-colonel just looks more [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► impressive he just looks and seems more [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► capable because he's achieved this [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► status and this expertise but in you [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► know in fact he just he just knows how [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► to run things within that [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► very constrained world you know and they [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► and the generalist the the person that [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► is you know the woman that came up and [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► put herself through law school and then [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► decided not to be a lawyer but instead [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► decided to be a chef and then she worked [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► as a chef for a while and then she [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► bought a hotel and then she decided you [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► know she sold the hotel and and decided [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► to run for Congress [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► it's like that is the person that [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► interest me like like she's the one that [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► I would want as our elected [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► representative because the lieutenant [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► colonel is going to get into the US [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► Congress and he's gonna he's going to [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► succeed insofar as the Congress runs [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► like the Air Force and and and then he's [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► going to try to modify the Congress to [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► be more like the air force because [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► that's the thing is how to run because [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► that's the thing and that you know and [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► and within the context of becoming a [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► lieutenant colonel in the Air Force you [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► it's the rare individual and I know a [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► couple of them who remained [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► intellectually flexible there but like [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► the air force or the prosecutor's office [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► or the I mean it even even the Sierra [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► Club like they have institutional [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► character and if you spend your whole [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► career in those places you just you're [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► not you're discouraged from remaining [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► flexible you're encouraged to to harden [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► around those core values that make [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► people seem really principles even right [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► i mean right they they start to they [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► start to bleed over into the areas of of [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► like FX where it seems like well that [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► person's incredibly ethical they have [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► never deviated from the from the from [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► the party line of of the organization [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► that they represent and so so we we know [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► we can trust them [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► and I i find somebody who has done 25 [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► different things and kind and some of [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► them were failures [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► you know I just I think I intrinsically [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► trust a person like that more because [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► they they just bring actual you know [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► Brian I guess it's back to the breath [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► versus depth question but like we don't [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► have a way our culture to to measure [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► breadth of experience in a in a in am [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► you know with with a similar yardstick [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► as depth of experience you know you [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► can't put the two side-by-side and do an [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► accurate comparison [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► yeah I i I'm gonna take the personal [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► angle on this which is and state the [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► obvious which is that I think I think [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► what we as people with something that [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► concerns us as people is like you are [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► talking about how like we like we would [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► like to think that a certain amount of [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► self-doubt is very healthy because that [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► means it doesn't mean that you don't [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► believe in things it means you're open [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► to the idea that even your own [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► perceptions could be wrong sometimes and [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► that you can't trust your own intellect [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► in an unchanged state to always be [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► correct like that sounds like something [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► that a reason intellectual adult person [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► would happily do as part of having you [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► know a life of the mind in some ways but [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► the truth is that most of us are [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► embarrassed about being wrong and we are [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► fearful of being seen being wrong and [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► this could you could talk about [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► candidates and leaders but we also just [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► talk about our parents we don't want our [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► parents to be wrong or to be unsure or [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► to be emotional or to be you know influx [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► you know I remember my mom get a new [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► haircut me crying for two days you know [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► and and so when you look at a leader you [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► know part of being a leader is having [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► that kind of resolution to what you say [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► where it doesn't Brooke any any [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► self-doubt they have to say something [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► that sounds like it'll be true forever [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► and could be you know carved in stone on [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► a monument [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► yeah and I'm starting to have some it [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► some new insight and I think it's time [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► to get real inside that this is actually [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► a white male problem [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► you think I mean that like honestly like [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► a way that was the way that we are [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► taught to think and the way that we [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► talked like recapitulates this problem [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► and it's one of the it's one of the [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► reasons that more diversity in public [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► office is just intrinsically healthy [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► because not all cultures have that you [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► know that massive dependence on [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► Authority authoritative voice there's a [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► lot you know I've been going around to [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► community meetings for the last several [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► months and sitting in the room and on a [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► folding chair and kind of just listening [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► to the way different communities and [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► Seattle talk to each other and and it's [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► it's weird because being sometimes being [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► the only white guy in the room there is [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► a little bit of the Heisenberg a yeah [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► even your presence there changes the [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► discourse [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► yeah just changes the changes in a [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► little bit but i'll but i mean i guess [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► probably a lot initially but then as [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► everybody gets comfortable with me being [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► there or or they realize like you know [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► that I'm not a white demon and and the [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► conversation starts to heat up or it [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► starts to move around the room in a in a [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► in an electrical way you I realize that [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► other other communities just don't talk [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► the same way that is that they that each [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► other do or that you know certainly like [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► the normal room full of Seattle white [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► people talk and there's a lot more [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► opportunity for people to say it in [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► real-time say like you know what you [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► just convinced me I was wrong and and [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► and you know and nobody like leans over [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► and puts a hand on their shoulder and [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► goes right on man you know it's just [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► part it's it's just accepted it [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► it's part of the conversational flow so [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► so yeah it's a i think i think one of [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► the solutions to that to this problem is [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► is greater diversity of of thinking but [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► but all I feel like it's this though the [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► white male problem [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► has infected american cultural life in a [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► way that's going to be hard to to rattle [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► out in making an argument here in the [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► next couple years but I'm definitely you [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► know i'm i'm definitely a i was [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► surprised and continue to be surprised [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► at how much institutional hostility [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► there was directed at the idea that had [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► that a generalist had a had value [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► relative to you know that the the words [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► that keep coming up or like pragmatism [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► and and incremental ism almost I mean [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► that I don't think they would use those [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► words to describe themselves but you [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► know the people and their it's [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► realpolitik that the idea that things [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► need to get done a certain way they [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► can't nothing can happen fast it all has [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► to you know it all has to proceed [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► according to this pace and that somebody [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► from outside doesn't just can't [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► understand and is actually dangerous you [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► know that the idea that you turn [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► somebody loose in City Hall in there in [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► there like floppy juggalo clown have to [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► run down the hall and say like free [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► money for everybody you know and they [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► may legislate yeah and it would just be [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► like they have to take they have to take [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► the new council person down in the [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► basement and him with rubber truncheons [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► until they you know until they pull the [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► clarence thomas and just sat on the [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► bench for the next 25 years without [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► saying anything listen just vote the [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► Italian guy sitting next to just vote [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► with him who um but I think there's [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► something comforting about the the [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► allies agreed to you know that we never [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► have to like state that we agree like [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► you think about that the two I feel like [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► matter it's still true today because I [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► have many many job interviews but you [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► know to the two kind of canonical [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► questions that always get asked in a job [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► interview [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► there's one that we say to somebody what [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► would you say is your [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► is your biggest internet positive or [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► what's the thing you think you could [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► really bring to our team and the person [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► so then there's the the pantomime where [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► they have to go home [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► that's a poser let me really think about [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► that for a minute because of course [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► everybody knows they're gonna get asked [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► that question a job interview and you [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► say well whatever you say something like [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► well you know if you work really hard [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► but I'm also really diligent ah and I'm [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► a good listener and you say all these [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► things that you know they want to hear [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► the go home [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► that's really interesting good listener [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► let me a second question let me let me [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► shake it up a little bit what would you [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► say is your biggest negative that you'd [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► really like your new well well i have to [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► tell you sir I was not prepared for that [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► question today [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► that's a poser let me think about it for [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► a minute i guess i'd say if anything [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► sometimes I probably work too hard [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► oh you guys I that's super interesting [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► answer i appreciate your candor and [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► sharing that with us today and the thing [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► is like everybody knows those questions [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► are going to get asked everybody knows I [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► mean that like what what the fuck do you [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► think that person's gonna say well I [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► didn't want you to find out that like I [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► got let go from the last three jobs [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► because i keep masturbating into the [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► coffee pot I'd say that's probably in at [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► the end of the day my biggest negative [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► is a common coffee and then oh well [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► that's super interesting thank you for [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► no you got to say something cuz you if [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► you said something you actually said are [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► well sometimes my social anxiety is so [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► crippling that it's very difficult for [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► me to even make it to work and I don't [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► answer the phone for a week sometimes [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► like that that's probably true [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► it's probably a negative and it's honest [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► but now not only you're not gonna get [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► that job but you are the biggest weirdo [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► and loser because you actually answer [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► the question you know but default I mean [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► isn't that kind of similar to what [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► happens if something right [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► you know I mean when people ask these [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► kinds of questions I don't know for some [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► reason Jesse raising arizona what do you [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► think well I kind of a question is that [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► I'm actually I'm actually drop in the [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► audio here but there's the scene where [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► he is at length finally in front of the [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► parole board again and the one goes they [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► got a name [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► the people like you hi that name is [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► called recidivism repeat offender not a [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► pretty name is it high [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► no sir that's one bonehead name the date [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► me anymore you're not just telling us [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► what we want to hear no sir no way cause [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► we just want to hear the truth [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► well then i guess i am telling you what [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► you want to hear all I didn't we just [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► tell you not to do that [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► yes sir ok and that's like isn't that it [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► was like you know what [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► what can you actually say in a situation [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► like that because you're you're damned [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► if you anything [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► yeah not unless round is funny it was a [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► rocky place for my senior find no [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► purchase but uh tell me Merlin what is [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► the last job interview went to the last [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► job interview that I went to for like a [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► position at the company describe [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► describe it you you either way he's only [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► single words there was a time when [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► Merlin man slipped his hair down to put [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► his tie on and I did I would put [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► dippity-do in and I think it's like I [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► look like gordon gekko carried your [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► little uh carried your little binder my [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► beliefs and your latest my day-timer you [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► SAT you sat on a chair in a lobby with a [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► leg swinging till somebody came out and [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► said uh Merlin Mann and you'll and the [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► white men will see you now [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► that's me that's me that whatever um [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► let's see the last last real job that I [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► had that was close to a real job my last [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► actual real according to Hoyle job that [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► I got was in 1999 it was a breeze [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► it was kind of a breeze because i had [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► gotten my friend of mine had basically [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► got me this interview they knew that it [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► was a really good fit for what these [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► guys needed and I i met with the head [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► engineer who ended up being one of my [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► favorite bosses of all time and that [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► went pretty well but that was super [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► unusual most of my job interviews the [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► ones that i can remember we're just just [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► just awful just awful because i don't [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► know i think you know what the people [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► that I know in the companies that I work [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► with there's been a huge trend you know [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► especially in the in this age of [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► computer maths there's a lot more [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► interest in really putting effort into [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► recruiting [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► and to like find the right person for [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► the company and without getting into too [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► much detail I think there's been a real [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► revolution thinking about how you how [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► you hire to get the culture you want [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► whereas most of jobs for the kinds of [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► positions i was at was more like well [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► this person left now we need a new [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► person and somebody would be sitting [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► there and flipping through papers on [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► their desk you know why you're while [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► you're trying to make a pitch and he [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► sent out resumes and you go through all [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► that donkey drill but I've had some of [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► those that were just never forget going [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► in trying to get a job at the [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► tallahassee democrat the paper and ink [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► web stuff there and I just remember i [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► like that was sent into the person's [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► office to like wait for them to come in [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► and it was just it was so dismal it was [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► like something out of Brazil and the [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► endo on the top of the file cabinets [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► I'll never forget this image they had a [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► burgundy sort of garnet and gold style [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► FSU colors hat they had a baseball cap [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► it said coach on it [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► coach and all I had to do was look at [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► that and I felt like I could already see [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► the off-site meeting where all the [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► managers got have to said coach because [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► everything's going to be different now [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► you know and like real paradigmatically [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► different and it was it was a shitshow [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► is it is a terrible terrible interview [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► and of course I spoke my mind I said [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► what I really thought about things and I [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► didn't end up getting the job but i [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► guess i am telling you what you want to [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► hear then okay then I'll do is charge [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► companies fifteen dollars for a website [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► you would do that for ten dollars an [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► hour [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► anyone can you start a [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► where do I begin where do I even begin [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► why are you charging them in either at [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► the grandson of $15 Ryu charging only [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► fifteen dollars like what's get anybody [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► possibly get out of anything for that [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► amount of money and why do you want to [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► hire a web designer for that [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► why don't you just just hire a monkey [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► with a paintbrush like anyway know and [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► have known what about you [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► so with the last real job do you have a [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► job at the newsstand I did for a long [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► time [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► see this is also the changing you know [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► the way we work changing so much the [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► move away from what I've called Richard [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► Scarry jobs to like you know knowledge [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► worker jobs were a lot of us working [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► freelance or contract or temporarily or [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► something [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► i I don't know that many people that [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► have had the same job for five years [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► it's worth the work doesn't happen [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► anymore working at the newsstand was [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► absolutely a Richard Scarry job it's [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► like you know here's how you get a tool [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► yeah here's the grocer and here's the [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► painter and here's the newspaper guy you [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► stop in and you buy some bubblegum and [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► you get a newspaper and that world just [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► feels completely gone i mean i guess [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► there are still florists but got we have [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► a lot of books for you know we have a [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► lot of children's books that were that [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► are like it in German because of who we [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► are and so many of the German children's [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► books are in that Richard Scarry vein of [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► just because there's so much of Germany [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► that really prides itself on that still [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► write the little town and there's the [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► chocolatier and there's the pretzel guy [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► and and the you know the man with the [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► hammer and the blue hat that comes and [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► hammers things for you that's hammer [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► meister that's how my sister but the [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► last job I like interviewed for where I [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► put on a tie i went down to see first [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► bank which he first was then purchased [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► by bank of america and became one of the [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► you know one of the bank of america was [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► absorbed right became part of that board [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► but throughout my whole life as a kid [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► and up until you know up into my [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► mid-twenties see first was like the big [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► Seattle bank see first pre pre in [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► washington mutual was still was still [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► kind of a scrappy upstart bank see first [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► was the was where the the old-school [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► kept their money like national bank of [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► Alaska is in Alaska for those Alaskans [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► listening anyway I went to see first and [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► i got a job in their claims wasn't it [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► was that it was there you know they they [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► had a they had a lot of diversification [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► as a bank and it was like it was their [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► loan their loan department and people [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► would take you know take loans out and [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► and present collateral for those loans [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► so you know we had to have pictures of [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► their boat two pictures of their [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► property pictures of their windmill or [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► there you know where they're like our [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► farm or whatever it was that they were [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► trying to get you know that they were [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► using as collateral to to get a bigger [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► loan to do something and I worked in [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► that office and I went in and you know [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► it was very much like mid nineties kind [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► of happy talk office interview and I [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► really I i really had competing like [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► competing polls in me at that point in [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► my life I I was you know was still [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► struggling i was still drinking I was [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► still living pretty rough in in seattle [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► kind of you know living a pretty rough [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► trade life at night and I and I felt [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► like I needed to get straight i need to [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► go straight [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► yeah you talked about this before where [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► you went through a phase where you felt [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► like am I going to be this like what is [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► my what is my life it seems like you're [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► sort of asking like so you know am I [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► going to be this am I gonna be that you [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► that weird experience where you drink on [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► the guys boat yeah yeah yeah yeah so [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► this was a different bank you know and I [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► felt like go straight right go get a job [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► in a bank because they were kind when [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► some of these places you feel kind of [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► tantalize with this whole like the ok [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► today they make a decision are you ready [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► to go to the next level [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► that's right that's right i mean if you [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► start working at a bank and you have [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► moxie [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► um you can become one of the rich and [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► that the those compactly competing poll [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► of like do you live a life that is for [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► you do you live an ethical life you live [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► a rewarding life or do you live a life [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► where you are making money and if you're [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► living a life where you're making money [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► and and you want to and you want to [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► retain your humanity inside yourself [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► somehow then your outward life becomes a [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► sort of suit of armor and animated suit [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► of armor that is out waging war [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► collecting a treasure and then at a [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► certain point you take off the suit of [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► armor yet [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► and then you have a pile of treasure and [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► then you can do good in the world or [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► then you can live freely and i was never [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► able to sustain it but you know yeah i [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► went and sat in a job interview and told [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► them that I was a diligent worker who [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► believed in who believed in keeping [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► things alphabetized I very very very [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► much liked to collate things I [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► particular I'd say my biggest negative [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► it's going to be hard to get me to stop [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► collating efficiently [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► yeah you know one of the things about me [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► as I really like to go back into a [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► disorganized files and and straighten [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► them up get them up get them you know [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► like when I have some free time I don't [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► like to think of it of it is free time I [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► like to think of it as opportunities to [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► go file time and fucked and and get back [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► into the files and really straighten him [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► up straight them out [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► and I and actually that's not wrong like [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► I do like to sit and make sure that the [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► that the that the blue copy is the third [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► piece of paper in every file and if the [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► blue copy ends up the fourth piece of [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► paper in a file i can feel it I can feel [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► it across the across the office floor [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► and I'll go find that file and I'll move [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► that blue paper from fourth to third to [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► get everything back straight with the [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► world but there's something very [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► satisfying about that in the same way as [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► tagging your mp3's or something there's [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► something very satisfying about having [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► this known amount of work with some [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► little physical actions and that's very [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► engaging stuff it is it is and you know [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► and to get all caught up and have all [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► the file i want and what's great about a [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► job like that is you're sitting on your [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► stool and some harried a loan officer [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► comes in with their time I ask you and [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► says I can't find the you know the [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► amazing clots file and I'm like oh can't [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► find the amazing class file huh who was [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► working on it he goes I don't you know I [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► don't know but Brandon I think had it [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► for a while and I'm like followme and [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► then I would walk across the the trading [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► floor and all the typewriters were going [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► and the phones were ringing and this you [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► know in this sales guy or this blown [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► officer behind me as you know is getting [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► paid more than I am he's older than I am [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► but he can't find amazing clots file and [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► I would walk and we go through the [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► elevators and around the corner and and [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► then there'd be a cart parked you know [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► next to the next to the drinking [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► fountain and I would go right to the [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► cart and I would go right to the second [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► level of it and I would pull the amazing [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► clots file and I'd be like there is with [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► that kind of like here you go here you [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► go buddy [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► I don't like your conjurer yeah like how [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► hard was that he's just like incredible [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► how did you know that was there [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► how could you found that well you know [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► you just just gotta follow it follow the [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► trail my friend you just gotta know the [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► millions announced [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► like I really liked that but I just [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► couldn't keep couldn't keep on the wheel [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► couldn't keep on the treadmill [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► yeah and I wasn't going from from that [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► job I I probably wasn't going to end up [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► being president of the Bank particularly [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► said senior remember mr. Roderick was [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► the one who found amazing closer basic [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► loves flowers now our god mark jordan [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► this business there on ours in the war [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► room now i'm CEO of Bank of America and [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► I've ever told you the story about the [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► amazing lots file no one no one could [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► hard and he had more money than me we [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► buy said follow me we walk with across [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► the room and so forth and our phones [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► ringing and their typewriters going i [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► found it i knew exactly where was this [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► brought to you by Casper to learn more [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► visit Casper calm / supertrain gang this [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► is real easy to understand [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► Casper offers and obsessively engineered [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► mattress at a shockingly fair price [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► after this mattress is one-of-a-kind [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► it's a new hybrid mattress that combines [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► premium latex foam with memory foam it's [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► got just the right sink and just the [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► right balance the best of two [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► technologies come together for better [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► nights and brighter days draw near and [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► please listen closely because i have to [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► tell you I've been sleeping on a casper [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► mattresses for months now and i love [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► this thing [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► yes i love the quality of the product [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► and i love the quality of the sleep that [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► I get but you know what even these many [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► months later I still pleasingly stunned [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► at how easy this company is to deal with [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► and just how painless they made the [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► entire process will be tied you if [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► you've ever tried to navigate the fiery [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► hellscape that is shopping for costing [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► mattresses in a retail store it is the [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► worst with Casper you do not get that is [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► how this works with Casper you order [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► your mattress a surprisingly small box [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► magically appears at your door and you [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► carry it up to your room yes by yourself [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► try that with a typical king-size [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► mattress and it comes to this little [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► things that used to gently swipe open [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► this bag full of awesome mattress and [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► mattress gently exhales because [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► and within minutes you have everything [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► you need for a good night's sleep [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► it's actually that easy is actually that [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► simple [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► here's the crazy part Casper also offers [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► an equally simple risk-free trial and [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► return policy so you try sleeping under [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► Casper for 100 nights and if for some [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► reason it's not to your liking [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► you can send it back to them free [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► delivery painless returns made in [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► America and just sleep sleep glorious [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► sleep as I mentioned these prices are [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► just outrageously low five hundred [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► dollars for twin size mattress going up [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► to 9 50 for a king-size mattress try [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► getting a mattress and a store for that [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► kind of money won't happen and the top [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► of it all Casper has a very special [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► offer to listeners of Robert on the line [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► you can get fifty dollars toward your [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► mattress purchase by visiting Casper [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► calm / supertrain and using these very [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► special offer code supertrain we must [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► tell you terms and conditions apply [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► i'm here to tell you it's a terrific [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► mattress i love mine i hope you will [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► give these folks to spin their great to [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► work with our thanks to Casper for many [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► great nights sleep and for supporting [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► Robert on the line and now what now [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► now you know now i cant i got my I got [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► my foot so the other day sitting around [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► the house my kid comes over and starts [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► talking about something or other and I [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► said oh you know my dad was really [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► expert at that and we talked about my [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► dad a lot and she was like you know your [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► dad and kind of looked thoughtfully and [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► I was like you know what we have not [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► really sat down and looked at pictures [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► of my dad in awhile and that's not [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► something i want to you know I don't [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► want my dad to just kind of turn into a [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► ghost in her mind right right so I went [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► upstairs and I found a bin of my dad's [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► photographs and I brought the pin down [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► and I said sit with me and we'll look at [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► some pictures and even in doing that [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► realized that the novelty of a box full [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► of pictures uh it had been it's been [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► long enough that the this was very new [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► idea that I was going to open this box [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► and it's going to be full of [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► hard photographs write because usually [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► when we look at pictures we sit down and [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► look at them on a device and so we start [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► going through pictures and a couple of [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► things became immediately clear as we [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► discussed before my dad was the worst [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► photographer that human kind has ever [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► produced and he was an enthusiast he was [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► an enthusiastic photographer and easily [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► the worst photographer I mean entire [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► rolls of film where not a single [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► photograph is not just in focus because [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► none of them are in focus but so out of [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► focus and so badly framed that it is [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► unclear what my father was trying to [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► photograph and for even for a lot of [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► them i was an eyewitness to the events [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► and I cannot discern what is being [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► displayed but you can't tell anybody was [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► going for I mean it's like okay it's a [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► soccer game there are players on the [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► field none of them even if it were in [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► focus none of them would be identifiable [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► because you're shooting a soccer game [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► with a you know with a with the lens [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► that somebody at the camera shop talk to [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► you into buying i can t too slow to see [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► anything [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► yeah it's just like they're so basically [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► there are just a lot of it's like a [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► mumbly peg you've taken a photograph of [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► a mum bleep a game [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► there's just a lot of like completely [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► interchangeable children [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► Blops in a field of green or you know so [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► often like my I would be sitting next to [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► my sister on a couch and my dad would [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► try and take a picture of us both and he [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► would just kind of cut he would cut one [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► half of each of our faces [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► how's that possible rather than say like [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► either you guys scoot together so I can [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► get you both in the frame or I'm gonna [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► take a step back so that you're both in [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► the friends a horrible fucking he would [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► just be would focus the camera on the on [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► the the couch in between us and then we [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► like a little bit of each of us would be [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► caught in the shot and and trying to [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► look at these pictures and trying to [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► just get inside my dad's head [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► he loved his camera he loved taking [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► photographs and what's great about it is [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► that he took so many that we still have [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► the the benefit of that sort of one in a [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► hundred rule where one in a hundred [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► photographs he accidentally and I think [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► I I swear to you I swear to the some of [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► the best photographs i think the camera [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► went off accidentally right he just he [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► was standing there and he just touched [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► the body was like oh damn it [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► and those are the those are the few that [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► are a InFocus be interesting Lee framed [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► but so many so many so many so many [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► photographs that that even the baby [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► looks at and just like I wonder what are [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► we looking at is that a train is that a [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► is that a person is it a visit dishes in [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► the sink [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► I can't I can't I can't tell but and I'm [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► very reluctant to throw any of them away [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► because even even worse gonna get even a [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► bunch of out-of-focus pictures of you [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► know of a like of the tide coming in or [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► whatever I i still i see the hand of my [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► dad I feel him and I feel him in them [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► and I'm just like you know these are [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► these these means something to me but [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► but also i have a box of photos and even [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► though most of them will not mean [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► anything to her like it's a real thing [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► it's a they are think there are things [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► you can put your hands on and right now [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► in my computer life right i have this [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► computer i'm talking to you on which was [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► made in 1998 i have not updated the [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► operating system since 2001 what and I [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► know what else we've talked we've talked [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► about this mac before right this is not [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► set [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► it's a love heart fluctuation it's a g3 [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► the g3 mcintosh who uh but i feel very [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► scared right now there are there are [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► 10,000 photographs on this computer that [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► i don't i'm not confident i can put [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► anywhere else like I don't know where to [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► put [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► where they would be safe people say oh [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► you know the hard drives die if i put [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► them in the cloud [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► I still am NOT confident that they're [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► safe and then all of a sudden I'm [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► incurring a forty dollar a month charge [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► I can't i don't think i can put them on [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► my laptop my phone is slowing down from [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► being overburdened with accidental voice [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► accidental audio recordings that somehow [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► keep migrating into my text field like [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► what is the advantage of that and [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► understand i like we accidentally hit [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► the microphone [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► yeah and all of a sudden you're sending [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► a voice text that's a horrible feeling [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► what is that feature why would anybody [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► use that if you want to you want to [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► leave somebody a phone message you can [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► still do that why would you send a voice [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► text it's personal [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► anyway so there's that and so I have [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► what I have your ID 18,800 photos [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► oh my goodness on my on my computer [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► which I feel everyday is sending me very [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► clear messages that like I'm about to [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► die I'm a compartment [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► I'm an old old old friend i have i have [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► a 2.16 gigahertz intel core and i want [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► to i want to go to sleep now i have [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► earned her I burned my rest and I go yes [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► yes yes that's fine i agree with you you [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► should you should [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► shuffle off this mortal coil you should [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► go to live on a farm but please don't [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► take my 18,800 photos with you and I and [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► I'm and i fear i fear i fear for the [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► future whenever I don't have a I don't [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► have a box full of photos I just have [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► this thing you know it's not and would [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► not be a particularly interesting topic [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► to go into detail here but there are [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► ways that we can help you with that was [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► John siracusa was here to tell me that I [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► to tell me something when i really be [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► happy to help you with um some of that [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► but i think there's a philosophical [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► issue here in that I mean part of it is [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► also that you think about the old [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► workflow [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► that we went through in the past [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► workflow don't term I think the thing [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► that we used to do have been first i've [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► been forbidden from saying the word ping [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► yeah you told me about that and sucks [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► that's a shame it's a good word ping [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► ping ping ya ya can't stand and but you [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► know it used to be pretty [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► straightforward which was that you know [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► there's a cycle you know loop basically [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► where you drop off film to be processed [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► right you'd buy new film while you're [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► there because usually in my case it that [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► Eckert drugs in Florida you would get a [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► discount when you bought film while [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► you're having a process and so but you [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► just keep doing that you just keep going [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► in you you know go in and drop off the [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► film you go back to your pictures drop [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► it off and so on and so forth and then [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► as soon as you got that you picked it up [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► to get the little envelope full of [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► photos you flip through it you know and [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► you know those at the very least now you [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► had a box full of envelopes of photos [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► which made it like it didn't mean that [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► you could look at would look at them all [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► the time but you didn't know where they [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► were and that this is any more secure [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► I mean my god one hard copy of a photo [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► and the negative in the same envelope [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► like how secure is that that's true if [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► your house caught on fire it's all [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► alright or in my case a leak in the [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► basement took out like almost all my [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► family photos is a real bummer that I [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► have like one solid much together block [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► of photo now it's it's just it's too sad [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► even think about know but but that arm [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► but but that but there was something [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► about that we're like you'd have a hard [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► copy now you know some of the snapshots [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► from the sixties and seventies have not [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► aged well they've lived their real [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► weird-looking me and that's where some [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► stuff in the seventies and eighties even [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► worse with my kodak dis camera but I'm [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► like haha of course you a discount on [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► this camera you were always an earlier [TS]

00:55:46 ◼   ► about later I got an elf but but you [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► know but in that case though there's [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► something there's two parts to that the [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► one is that like you knew where the [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► photos were there in the photo box and [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► the other one was at any point you can [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► just kind of grabbed him and flip [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► through them and that's something you do [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► a couple times a year [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► the thing is now i have a like a new [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► parent I took you know hundreds of [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► thousands of photos of our kid and then [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► just didn't look at them [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► oh yeah it's really weird but then when [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► I signed up the funny thing is when I [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► signed up for google photo which is one [TS]

00:56:12 ◼   ► option I want to look at it pushes our [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► photos up into into the code but what's [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► cool is it goes through it [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► looks at all your photos and first of [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► all I'd like groups them in interesting [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► ways that makes it all searchable so you [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► can search for cake or guitar and it [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► will actually find it because their [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► google and they're amazing and it's [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► really neat but then what also is cool [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► is like it will find if you did like you [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► know you would you like in the blast [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► mode we go 10 gonna take like 10 photos [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► or something it may automatically makes [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► animated gifs out of those which sounds [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► silly but there's something so cool [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► about going like you know at the time I [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► kicked myself for being such a dummy and [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► taking 50 photos of a baby but it turns [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► into an animated gif was already going [TS]

00:56:48 ◼   ► to blast mode [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► oh if you're on at least iOS 8 I think [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► when you hold down the button just keep [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► holding the button down and say it will [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► take multiple photos for as long as you [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► hold it [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► be careful because your phone is pretty [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► full but be then it will also help pick [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► out what it thinks is the best photo [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► which is pretty good at like really yeah [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► it's in focus and try it works last mode [TS]

00:57:10 ◼   ► yeah but didn't but so what's but here's [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► the second part to me is what's in the [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► Google photo thing this is not a butt [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► plug for them but it was good with [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► google photo costs money [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► no you don't trust right now I I trust [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► things that don't cost money [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► I I don't cost money you can trust me [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► um but what's needed is then so it jumps [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► on all your photos you can upload from [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► your phone you can upload you can do it [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► right now today and upload it like i [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► have 26 gigs of photos and videos on my [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► phone it's it's asinine so but they'll [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► hear what I'm trying to get at length is [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► then what's really cool it says you [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► going you going to go to photo and [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► suddenly it's made its made movies it's [TS]

00:57:50 ◼   ► made animations it's made little sets [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► and you to re-experience all your photos [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► in this thing so like I'm great at [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► taking pictures i'm just i'm not i'm not [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► great at storing them and I'm not great [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► looking at them and like that's kind of [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► the important thing is remember to look [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► at him is good now is google photo going [TS]

00:58:03 ◼   ► to take your photos and use them in [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► advertisements to your friends that is [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► not the plan as I understand what it [TS]

00:58:09 ◼   ► will do is use it to contribute to the [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► corpus of data about photo recognition [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► stuff so that's why when you go into [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► Google photo you go into a search for [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► chair and it finds everything with a [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► chair in it or you do a search for [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► poster and finds posters it's totally [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► bananas you and facial recognition [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► because I mean that's just you know [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► again corpus corpus the corpus its [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► ramifications but right now i'm going [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► because we can help you with that we can [TS]

00:58:33 ◼   ► help you with that but you know photos I [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► mean like music or changing so much i [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► mean the way people take so many photos [TS]

00:58:38 ◼   ► but i always wonder what they do with [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► them [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► some people are great about it they're [TS]

00:58:41 ◼   ► like old school and they're like print [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► things out and send it to people are you [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► know doing things like that i just have [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► all these photos and I hardly ever look [TS]

00:58:47 ◼   ► at him [TS]

00:58:47 ◼   ► ok now let me let me walk you through [TS]

00:58:49 ◼   ► this yeah I have a I have not updated my [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► operating system and so uh the browser's [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► are no longer supported so how do i go [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► to Google photos without updating my [TS]

00:59:08 ◼   ► operating system [TS]

00:59:10 ◼   ► see this is the conundrum i do not want [TS]

00:59:12 ◼   ► to i'm afraid if i update the operating [TS]

00:59:14 ◼   ► system it will break everything [TS]

00:59:17 ◼   ► well we can talk about this which I mean [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► this is better for offline probably but [TS]

00:59:21 ◼   ► what unit are you kidding me this isn't [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► the most scintillating radio and welcome [TS]

00:59:25 ◼   ► to live computer support from five years [TS]

00:59:27 ◼   ► ago with John Roderick first you're [TS]

00:59:29 ◼   ► going to do something that's called back [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► up what I don't confuse I know it's [TS]

00:59:34 ◼   ► confusing and it sounds scary but it's [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► not it doesn't actually do anything to [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► your back and nothing goes up [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► I what I go I I try and read how to do a [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► backup and they start talking about [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► things that I don't understand just end [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► up just going to sorting things [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► yeah and I end up like oh maybe what I [TS]

00:59:53 ◼   ► should [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► well you have a guitar there to your e [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► hello government all the way across the [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► country little Jam a lot of times we did [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► this guy can blues we can help you with [TS]

01:00:38 ◼   ► that but you know everything comes it's [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► like it cost [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► oh my god that you at you you just said [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► it all [TS]

01:00:46 ◼   ► there's nothing that doesn't cost [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► psychic I just you know the psychic cost [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► of opening that bin and looking at [TS]

01:00:54 ◼   ► out-of-focus pictures of my that my [TS]

01:00:56 ◼   ► father took over the years and realizing [TS]

01:00:58 ◼   ► realizing that just as if you are raised [TS]

01:01:03 ◼   ► in a house where everybody smoked [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► cigarettes you do not know that a house [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► full of cigarette smoke is unusual and [TS]

01:01:10 ◼   ► bad until you get to be an adult and you [TS]

01:01:13 ◼   ► look back and you're like oh my god [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► everyone in my house was smoking menthol [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► cigarettes all day and night in my [TS]

01:01:20 ◼   ► entire childhood and that's this is not [TS]

01:01:21 ◼   ► true of me but i have i have friends [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► it was always at least one person [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► smoking there was a little bit of time [TS]

01:01:27 ◼   ► when they had their last smoke in bed [TS]

01:01:29 ◼   ► yes in bed snuffed it out and went to [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► sleep with the smoke would just settle [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► but other than that there was always [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► someone smoking somewhere all the time [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► yeah and and you know i would go over to [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► friends houses and walk in the door and [TS]

01:01:39 ◼   ► it was just like oh my god i'm inside of [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► like a diseased lung but they had no [TS]

01:01:45 ◼   ► they had no other reality right and my [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► reality growing up was that that you [TS]

01:01:51 ◼   ► were constantly being photographed you [TS]

01:01:55 ◼   ► were cut my dad and I went at the this [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► thing that you described we went to the [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► photoshop where my dad knew all the [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► people behind the counter he knew the [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► owner he would hand over five rolls of [TS]

01:02:07 ◼   ► film he would buy five rolls of film he [TS]

01:02:10 ◼   ► would get the he would get the photos in [TS]

01:02:12 ◼   ► the little envelopes [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► from the people you know they'll be like [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► oh Dave Roderick and then go get all the [TS]

01:02:17 ◼   ► pictures and bring them out and then we [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► would get would go out into the car and [TS]

01:02:20 ◼   ► we would look at the photographs and as [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► a chance [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► yes absolutely as a child I had no [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► context to know that my dad was a bad [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► photographer so my experience was you go [TS]

01:02:34 ◼   ► out and sit in the car and sort through [TS]

01:02:36 ◼   ► sometimes 80 photographs and and then [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► when when when you could win that [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► technology arrived where you could check [TS]

01:02:45 ◼   ► a box and get doubles [TS]

01:02:47 ◼   ► yeah that was that was the eighties man [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► we always get double prints yeah that is [TS]

01:02:50 ◼   ► somewhere in the eighties the photo [TS]

01:02:52 ◼   ► people realize like hey you know we sort [TS]

01:02:53 ◼   ► of like the the extra meat for a dollar [TS]

01:02:55 ◼   ► of fatality exactly and then you can [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► have you can give the good ones two [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► friends and my dad always got doubles [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► and so we would sit and and go through [TS]

01:03:05 ◼   ► these pictures and it was just like oh [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► well it seems like maybe the camera [TS]

01:03:09 ◼   ► fired in what was still in the bag on [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► that one and then this is the Shh shot [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► out the window of a moving car of some [TS]

01:03:16 ◼   ► bone polls admit there's somebody oh [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► here's one of a blurry dog that looks [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► like a person over there but i had no I [TS]

01:03:25 ◼   ► had no critical faculty to see like Oh [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► dad you're terrible at this stop or like [TS]

01:03:32 ◼   ► take a class and so my reality was [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► shaped by these photographs like I [TS]

01:03:39 ◼   ► understood i understood human experience [TS]

01:03:44 ◼   ► to be something that now I realize it [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► isn't right that this is that there's [TS]

01:03:49 ◼   ► that you're enacting some well first of [TS]

01:03:51 ◼   ► all that is incredibly hard to get a [TS]

01:03:53 ◼   ► photograph and that um because debt you [TS]

01:03:58 ◼   ► know dad didn't flip through these and [TS]

01:04:00 ◼   ► be like well wasted another role like [TS]

01:04:03 ◼   ► you know now is that was his normal to [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► it was his normal too and so so ah so I [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► had a i mean i can't i can't begin to [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► describe how my own memories of things [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► are shaped by having relived them [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► through photographs of them that seemed [TS]

01:04:23 ◼   ► like you were taken by mr. Magoo [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► like those but you know that way when [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► you look at a photograph of something [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► that happened a week ago and the [TS]

01:04:32 ◼   ► photograph kind of solidifies the memory [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► a little bit like oh that's how it [TS]

01:04:36 ◼   ► happened everything everything you had [TS]

01:04:38 ◼   ► that look like the cover of shoegaze [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► album [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► yeah right everything exactly right it's [TS]

01:04:42 ◼   ► like I that's why i responded so well to [TS]

01:04:44 ◼   ► my bloody valentine i was just like what [TS]

01:04:47 ◼   ► guitar i think that was a good way [TS]

01:04:48 ◼   ► it's just like it's just like it's like [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► it's like right before my dad took any [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► kind of pictures he went and and dip the [TS]

01:04:54 ◼   ► lens of his camera in the top of a [TS]

01:04:56 ◼   ► birthday cake we're ready now let's go [TS]

01:05:00 ◼   ► I've got frosting all over the lens let [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► go and and so yeah I but but so that [TS]

01:05:06 ◼   ► shaped my perception right so profoundly [TS]

01:05:10 ◼   ► and and now you know and it turns out my [TS]

01:05:13 ◼   ► sister is a brilliant photographer i [TS]

01:05:15 ◼   ► have no idea you know she was in her [TS]

01:05:18 ◼   ► thirties before she ever really picked [TS]

01:05:20 ◼   ► up a camera and planted anything and [TS]

01:05:23 ◼   ► from the first time I saw a photograph [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► by her I was like oh my god you're a [TS]

01:05:26 ◼   ► genius [TS]

01:05:26 ◼   ► she's got an eye because she and three [TS]

01:05:28 ◼   ► friends you know she and her friends [TS]

01:05:29 ◼   ► went around the world together and they [TS]

01:05:32 ◼   ► all work we're taking photographs of the [TS]

01:05:33 ◼   ► same things and the other two are taking [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► very very good photographs of things but [TS]

01:05:38 ◼   ► then my sister's photo of the exact same [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► moment which is be framed in a way that [TS]

01:05:44 ◼   ► both told the story and created [TS]