Roderick on the Line

Ep. 167: "Peak Phil Collins"


  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  brought to you in part by braintree if [TS]

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  searching for a simple payment solution [TS]

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  payments calm / supertrain and by warby [TS]

  parker Warby Parker believes [TS]

  prescription glasses simply should not [TS]

  cost as much as an iphone they bypass [TS]

  traditional channels and sell higher [TS]

  quality better-looking prescription [TS]

  eyeglasses online at a fraction of the [TS]

  usual retail price starting at just $95 [TS]

  to learn more go to worry Parker calm / [TS]

  supertrain [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello I John but ding-dong [TS]

  how is it going but being gone [TS]

  ding don't make sure to sing that ah [TS]

  what I really want to sing is [TS]

  ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba but ramp that's [TS]

  from the star track [TS]

  yep that's what I really wanna sing but [TS]

  I'd I felt like that was a weird way to [TS]

  start the show [TS]

  yeah I've been thinking about you for [TS]

  the last 40 minutes oh haha not been [TS]

  listening to I have to keep this to [TS]

  contemporaneous but listen to my friends [TS]

  podcast talking about Genesis make sure [TS]

  you remember how much I loved genesis [TS]

  genesis the band or Genesis the be a guy [TS]

  a bomb was the first book of the Bible [TS]

  um alright yo I didn't you were really [TS]

  big fan of Genesis the first book of the [TS]

  Bible as a leg [TS]

  well yeah i'm going to say you know I [TS]

  can't Genesis and Exodus super-strong [TS]

  books [TS]

  ok then you got to Genesis Exodus [TS]

  Leviticus numbers and Deuteronomy a [TS]

  little bit samey you feel an older [TS]

  brother I i think they did not have one [TS]

  cohesive editor for that I think Moses [TS]

  probably farmed it out i think i think [TS]

  Moses get some good work on the first to [TS]

  em you know what he had a stake in it [TS]

  anything but the rest of the three was [TS]

  all like that was like filling out [TS]

  contracts you know what's interesting [TS]

  about it or not lie down with shellfish [TS]

  in the desert man what's interesting [TS]

  about numbers is that that's the moment [TS]

  that Peter realized or I'm sorry was [TS]

  revealed it was revealed to Peter by God [TS]

  that he wasn't just out there trying to [TS]

  convert Jews moses and moses think Peter [TS]

  came along to later chapters [TS]

  holy Moses only only most is Peter one [TS]

  week of 11 in Americus [TS]

  oh sure you don't confuse with simon [TS]

  pearce telling Peter it was it was in [TS]

  its acts [TS]

  oh sure you get the accident you get the [TS]

  Romans sure yeah max in Romans I think [TS]

  our to it to the strongest books of the [TS]

  new testament I feel like letter 2 [TS]

  Corinthians apparently i really get [TS]

  engaged all with me i'm john i know the [TS]

  b-sides right there [TS]

  because it just feels like look until [TS]

  the new testament what was it it was [TS]

  just a bunch of it was just a bunch of [TS]

  crosstalk you know what I mean it was [TS]

  just a bunch of like skies in the desert [TS]

  finally I'm trying to micromanage [TS]

  whatever would each other straight back [TS]

  to start track because really you got to [TS]

  be what we call the Old Testament is [TS]

  like the original star trac mtos we call [TS]

  it and then really uh you got you got a [TS]

  new testament kinda like Star Trek the [TS]

  new generation well and so and that but [TS]

  the thing is it's this new generation [TS]

  but it if it casts backward [TS]

  hmm and it ruined it reveals all that [TS]

  was all we didn't understand about [TS]

  Kirk's voyage purchase leads right right [TS]

  for you know I think a lot of that you [TS]

  get into the Joshua judges Ruth you get [TS]

  a lot of Captain Pike a ruth what I'm so [TS]

  what I'm what I like to think about is [TS]

  first interracial kiss on television [TS]

  what is the equivalent in the Old [TS]

  Testament George Takei and Adam West [TS]

  know what the first generate first [TS]

  interracial kiss was it was it was a [TS]

  bill cosby know it was kirkin Aurora how [TS]

  hot so that's big that's big news and [TS]

  there was a handsome woman [TS]

  well my goodness you know yvonne craig [TS]

  past this week [TS]

  yvonne craig was that I think I used to [TS]

  use shampoo I think you're thinking of [TS]

  gee your hair smells terrific [TS]

  no I don't know that was it a beer [TS]

  shampoo that was what I you know you're [TS]

  shy said no this was a macro micro past [TS]

  Oh bad girl bad girl one of my my [TS]

  primary original hard crushes who has [TS]

  passed easy [TS]

  yep uh well you know what happens is [TS]

  people get old out there they get older [TS]

  first and then they get old they cover [TS]

  this in Micah their orders for a while [TS]

  yes if they're lucky I love old people [TS]

  are but young people leave them in the [TS]

  Millennials snake people have a good [TS]

  you're so old and I'm like have you [TS]

  thought about the alternative [TS]

  uh well don't be lookin pretty good to [TS]

  you soon buddy [TS]

  also all those old man there's old Oh [TS]

  oh you get old and stale old for a while [TS]

  you know there's something you just keep [TS]

  your still old uh-huh [TS]

  but what happens is just the moisture [TS]

  goes at how dare me [TS]

  yeah you know this is the year in [TS]

  November I i begin my final year inside [TS]

  the demographic the only demographic [TS]

  that matters [TS]

  HR 4970 you're in the clash that's the [TS]

  only demographic that matters [TS]

  uh yeah pounds and has many bm's you can [TS]

  get the you're gonna get the / treatment [TS]

  and they're gonna put you on the cover [TS]

  of AARP whether you look at haha he was [TS]

  it would slash on the cover of AARP 10 / [TS]

  okay / welcome how old you have to be [TS]

  oh dear now what about stuff like stuff [TS]

  on there he's a handsome man that's 48 [TS]

  wait really don't get it is 4800 he's [TS]

  not 48 what only God Almighty no he's [TS]

  not he's really looking 72 that's gotta [TS]

  be it's gotta be 51 all right here uh [TS]

  let's see how old stuff well probably 50 [TS]

  ish of mac k 5050 [TS]

  yeah what is he okay I'm gonna kill you [TS]

  in 51 [TS]

  yeah all right now always bored 64 @ [TS]

  so51 yeah [TS]

  God look at that guy video for live [TS]

  sweet child of mine the other day looks [TS]

  she looks so much better now februari [TS]

  not to say too much Harry 643 and he's [TS]

  been married three times he is 51 born [TS]

  in February 64 [TS]

  yeah so definitely Generation X Gen X as [TS]

  we call it who uh yeah he was not he [TS]

  didn't look good when he was doing doing [TS]

  a lot of drugs it was not a good look on [TS]

  him we had that soufflé hair but it [TS]

  looks amazing now you look at him [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah he looks like something [TS]

  that was carved out of mahogany and then [TS]

  painted who and then left in the park [TS]

  for a couple years and repaint it and I [TS]

  feel like that is a look i wish i had a [TS]

  look at you can pull off that hair [TS]

  that's amazing hair [TS]

  I look like something that [TS]

  was first of all delivered in scoops and [TS]

  then some scoop for piled on Community [TS]

  Design in California assembled in china [TS]

  and then select Susan first you throw [TS]

  some scooped a little film sweat i'm [TS]

  used to lack it don't think so [TS]

  I am York and then you missed it you [TS]

  look Shakespearean you look [TS]

  Shakespearean and what does that mean [TS]

  you look like who's the guy to get the [TS]

  poison in 20 wall stuff [TS]

  no you look at Falstaff a little bit I [TS]

  don't you know when I was young [TS]

  everybody called me Prince Hal because [TS]

  that's an obvious comparison white but [TS]

  but now who I feel like I'm Rosencrantz [TS]

  yeah right sure sure [TS]

  searching for your Guildenstern oh boy [TS]

  you saved still saving that for prison [TS]

  right uh who Shakespeare yeah did you [TS]

  see what time you're going to reach [TS]

  experience you go to prison [TS]

  yeah I mean I literally could not read [TS]

  the liner notes of Shakespeare's sister [TS]

  who was she hurt but but I johnny hates [TS]

  jazz you saving that for prison [TS]

  oh are you kidding me i gobbled it up [TS]

  you can avoid Shakespeare just like you [TS]

  can't afford to avoid the Bible even [TS]

  though i literally I ran from room to [TS]

  room trying to avoid the Bible but I [TS]

  couldn't [TS]

  my grandfather read it all the way [TS]

  through every year [TS]

  oh if you say yes it's like infinite [TS]

  jest or like if you really set yourself [TS]

  to it and read it a little short bits [TS]

  you can get through the whole thing [TS]

  this is seriously the sum of the sum of [TS]

  there's a lot of repetition is the oh [TS]

  yes oh yes [TS]

  yeah i have read i have read to port you [TS]

  know the highlights of the Bible good [TS]

  portions of it like a doctor's office [TS]

  one of those like illustrated children's [TS]

  but I went you know I went to jesuit [TS]

  school and so there was there was the [TS]

  whole Bible as literature tact [TS]

  uh-huh that they took and I've read good [TS]

  have read the Shakespeare that I that I [TS]

  couldn't avoid but you know I mean I are [TS]

  all the older I get and I mean you know [TS]

  this kind of gets back to last week my [TS]

  cop out about his TV the new books but I [TS]

  i think it's so much more [TS]

  it's so much more interesting to see it [TS]

  staged or let's be honest to see a movie [TS]

  like you know if you can't get into [TS]

  Henry the fifth I can't help you like [TS]

  that movie is so goddamn good that is [TS]

  the gateway drug for Shakespeare movies [TS]

  it's really awfully good they're also [TS]

  good Shakespeare movies there are some [TS]

  very good Shakespeare movies and but [TS]

  like reading it is it does feel like [TS]

  you're eating your vegetables whereas [TS]

  that language becomes so much more [TS]

  lively and understandable when it's [TS]

  being acted out it's like saying well [TS]

  you know the godfather to the greatest [TS]

  movie of all time so you should read [TS]

  this script and write a paper about it I [TS]

  thought I stand on that I don't want to [TS]

  read The Godfather to script although [TS]

  now that you mention it I do want to [TS]

  read The Godfather to script that it's [TS]

  really good [TS]

  this episode of rock online is brought [TS]

  to you in part by warby parker Warby [TS]

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  and for supporting Roderick on the lines [TS]

  anyway I heard and what I here naked huh [TS]

  no reply at all no reply at all [TS]

  there's so many that those humble 3i all [TS]

  take you take your Duke you take your [TS]

  abacab there's just so many turn it on [TS]

  again is I'm sorry yes people will say [TS]

  we talked about on the show I don't care [TS]

  turn it on again isn't unimpeachably [TS]

  great pop song em what you think that [TS]

  there's there's something that's very [TS]

  hard for people of a certain age to [TS]

  accept which is that Phil Collins is [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  yeah you know I I yeah I idea [TS]

  see now I'm always gonna have to sort of [TS]

  sight you're no you are the one of the [TS]

  People's Army that's the point so here's [TS]

  something my friend my friend Anthony [TS]

  has this show called unjustly maligned [TS]

  and you should be honest sometimes it's [TS]

  a really great show basically somebody [TS]

  goes on to his program and talks about [TS]

  something that almost everybody but them [TS]

  hates explains why they like it and why [TS]

  they think it is you know as the title [TS]

  says I'm just like Justin the line and [TS]

  so and so anyway he's on his own show [TS]

  it's kind of a long story but he's [TS]

  talking about Genesis and like I get all [TS]

  of that like it's just there was this [TS]

  three-year period that soured me on Phil [TS]

  Collins and I love almost everything [TS]

  else first of all every indication I've [TS]

  got four Collins stand-up dude I've [TS]

  heard he's a very nice man [TS]

  he seems like a nice man on television [TS]

  I'm just getting that out of the way but [TS]

  I mean I switzerland i will sit there [TS]

  and have some red wine and I will watch [TS]

  all of the old Genesis live videos i [TS]

  would just watch them i will watch them [TS]

  watch them and I will watch Peter [TS]

  Gabriel come out with that years on his [TS]

  under the flower you alright bom bom [TS]

  bom-bom and winston churchill dressed in [TS]

  drag he used to be a British flag would [TS]

  be a really like that but but yes I do [TS]

  but but the listeners should know that [TS]

  you also a side with the French in [TS]

  agreeing that Jerry Lewis is a national [TS]

  treasure [TS]

  I think Jerry Lewis is an international [TS]

  curiosity and we should treasure him [TS]

  because because he is he's a complex [TS]

  character [TS]

  yes and I think he's very interesting [TS]

  but what was the last time you sat down [TS]

  and put [TS]

  no jacket required on the turntable and [TS]

  just listen to both sides of that I'm [TS]

  gonna trick question [TS]

  incredible incredible document of a time [TS]

  well first of all I would need to get a [TS]

  turntable and then i would need to get a [TS]

  copy of no jacket required also what [TS]

  letter because he's a mi somebody like [TS]

  that could set in my car once and I made [TS]

  them take it back [TS]

  Wow no see that's the problem see your [TS]

  I'm with the I'm with them up to the [TS]

  release and I I anything as I like face [TS]

  value [TS]

  I love abacab i love Duke I'm right [TS]

  there up to the release of little that [TS]

  it's no fun being an illegal it's no fun [TS]

  that that's on the the self-titled [TS]

  Genesis album i think see that's where [TS]

  they lost me a little bit name is I'm a [TS]

  vice and he was everywhere and they was [TS]

  on the fucking concord between two [TS]

  different live eight shows and it's just [TS]

  weed reach peak on collins don't know [TS]

  that seems I mean that if you inhabit [TS]

  the character of phil collins for that [TS]

  feels pretty good [TS]

  yeah right that somebody Russia's you to [TS]

  the airport puts you on a Concord and [TS]

  takes you to the second library you [TS]

  gotta be feeling pretty good about [TS]

  yourself [TS]

  he could have been a lot worse I will [TS]

  also say i will say that he is a triple [TS]

  threat like he is an amazing drummer [TS]

  killing and tasteful I mean for the for [TS]

  the crap that he plays and then in the [TS]

  Navy balls time signatures he's [TS]

  incredibly tasteful and flexible as a [TS]

  musician I think he's you know [TS]

  not without here but I think he's [TS]

  awfully good and I think he kind of gets [TS]

  credit for that he is a great singer [TS]

  especially when he really lets it rip [TS]

  and and I think he's a good songwriter I [TS]

  think he's i think is a good songwriter [TS]

  the wind also great comic book artist is [TS]

  that right no okay look at those take [TS]

  Phil Collins yes put him next to Don [TS]

  Henley intently super-complicated also [TS]

  good drummer greatest artists also good [TS]

  singer also great comic artist also you [TS]

  know like frontman songwriter right [TS]

  right stop business but also reviled by [TS]

  many uh snobs including on mojo Nixon [TS]

  john nixon does not like Don him Jackson [TS]

  had very strong opinions in the mid to [TS]

  late eighties but you know who would [TS]

  have had that great everybody swamp [TS]

  thing without Don Henley I I did if we [TS]

  talked about the the Eagles documentary [TS]

  you want us have we I i had i did watch [TS]

  the eagles died i watch them I watching [TS]

  about every six months you know tonight [TS]

  I get completely lost in them it was [TS]

  like wading through hot putting really [TS]

  just a minute that I say that with the [TS]

  full knowledge that like wading through [TS]

  hot putting isn't a hundred percent bad [TS]

  right right a picture yourself in like [TS]

  waist-deep in hot putting em it's not [TS]

  his God you probably wouldn't like [TS]

  choose it I think i would have a lot of [TS]

  confusing feelings about that you have [TS]

  right you wouldn't use it but if you [TS]

  were on one side of a of a chasm full of [TS]

  hot putting and you have to get to the [TS]

  other and you and you you knew there [TS]

  wasn't going to be like a wave of it you [TS]

  just have to wade through it I if he [TS]

  knew to a relative certainty that there [TS]

  was like putting monster in there that [TS]

  was just it was just gonna be warm [TS]

  putting that you're wading through well [TS]

  I didn't say warm i said hot but it's [TS]

  not hot like let's say you had to spend [TS]

  15 minutes waist-deep in hot putting [TS]

  together for Barnum's side to the other [TS]

  that's just a dream that you had to that [TS]

  I love the parts in the documentary [TS]

  first of all every second Joe Walsh is [TS]

  on screen is mature gold totally great [TS]

  because he is he's first of all he is he [TS]

  is not only extremely talented and [TS]

  extremely funny but he's deeply deeply [TS]

  on ironically damaged [TS]

  yeah oh absolutely but it is amazing [TS]

  this and the fact that there is [TS]

  something like lip electrically wrong [TS]

  with him is he's got the wrong wattage [TS]

  fuse or something [TS]

  it's absolutely offset by the fact that [TS]

  every moment that glenn frey's on the [TS]

  screen is like having dental work with [TS]

  no anesthesia but this seems the evenin [TS]

  like I guess up to hotel california but [TS]

  the the while they were still on the [TS]

  rise like all the backstage things we [TS]

  start off you see all the photos glenn [TS]

  frey frey wearing sunglasses and reform [TS]

  plan for i was looking at you know he's [TS]

  a guitar guy who's saying into these [TS]

  country songs that really [TS]

  but you look at the backstage and you [TS]

  can do kinda not putting on airs but [TS]

  they clearly want to be California rock [TS]

  stars so it's but it's beautiful to [TS]

  watch them like oh having their [TS]

  marijuana and their acid trips and isn't [TS]

  this fun and then like it isn't more [TS]

  than two years later that they are [TS]

  clearly waist-deep incredibly hot [TS]

  putting that there's no turning back [TS]

  from this this world that they had [TS]

  sought well yeah and I think like two [TS]

  years later they're best friends were [TS]

  all lawyers they were rolling XD it's [TS]

  david geffen in three lawyers up the [TS]

  glenn frey of all the rock musicians in [TS]

  history right like it if you look at I [TS]

  mean we've all obviously studied [TS]

  photographs of john lennon taken every [TS]

  30 seconds [TS]

  throughout his entire twenties right so [TS]

  we can we can sit and argue about which [TS]

  was the best lemon and there are a lot [TS]

  of people and I don't I'm I feel like [TS]

  you are letting in 65 guy i'm not sure [TS]

  i'm very definitely a lemon in 67 guy [TS]

  after he kind of given up on the band [TS]

  right just he was still putting still [TS]

  phoning it in [TS]

  he was but he was as we've said so many [TS]

  times I mean he was very unhappy and [TS]

  probably deeply depressed [TS]

  yeah oh yeah but that was like this but [TS]

  from the time like that's what makes the [TS]

  revolver sessions such a delight is that [TS]

  like it's the last gasp of these people [TS]

  performing as a band in any kind of a [TS]

  functional way when you see the outtakes [TS]

  and then obviously high and Paul with [TS]

  the school classes and like that's the [TS]

  last gasp of the beatles as they were [TS]

  it's pretty wonderful but Lennon 69 is [TS]

  inexcusable like there's no I cannot get [TS]

  on i cannot get with Lenin 69 right I [TS]

  can't get to him I cannot get with him i [TS]

  would not enjoy riding on a train with [TS]

  him right he was now he's pretty damaged [TS]

  at that point if you see if you can wait [TS]

  through the hot putting of let it be [TS]

  you can just tell the guy was not right [TS]

  and he was on heroin at that point he [TS]

  was on the heroin he was and I I just [TS]

  wouldn't have enjoyed anything about him [TS]

  I wouldn't have enjoyed hearing about [TS]

  his politics I wouldn't have enjoyed [TS]

  hearing his theories about [TS]

  I like sexual politics I wouldn't have [TS]

  enjoyed anything about it [TS]

  glenn frey not to make not to really [TS]

  ruin this program by making any kind of [TS]

  comparison between John Lennon England [TS]

  private clinic Fry has this weird period [TS]

  right there in that time you were [TS]

  describing early seventies where he just [TS]

  he looks great [TS]

  he he just say he's pulling it off oh [TS]

  yeah he just he's he's amazing he said [TS]

  he was he looked I mean given how much [TS]

  of up through the mid seventies it was [TS]

  really more like the late sixties he was [TS]

  some of those people in the California [TS]

  scene were like strangely modern like [TS]

  there's something about him was very [TS]

  contemporary [TS]

  yeah right that's right he is he would [TS]

  he would absolutely fit in as a member [TS]

  of father john misty is band and the he [TS]

  like he blows it right away and I feel I [TS]

  feel like Clinton fry with a mustache [TS]

  was like really worked for me huh [TS]

  um like that at the denim the denim [TS]

  dudes denim dudes like she's against [TS]

  your skin collar [TS]

  yeah also I think it takes being in a [TS]

  band like the Eagles I think it takes a [TS]

  certain amount of guts to get on stage [TS]

  and play an acoustic guitar [TS]

  I mean he was he was really good at what [TS]

  he did anyway I I I I should be kind of [TS]

  Phil Collins I should probably do some [TS]

  do some restitution because I really do [TS]

  enjoy my missing here listen to Genesis [TS]

  tracking down and no no I'm right now [TS]

  I'm looking at a picture of glenn frey [TS]

  wrapped in a Mexican blanket in joshua [TS]

  tree by taking everything back that I [TS]

  just said whenever I take it all back [TS]

  he was inexcusable from the very [TS]

  beginning there was never a single [TS]

  moment of glenn frey that he wasn't [TS]

  absolutely appalling but I mean a lot of [TS]

  what we're talking about [TS]

  also by the way also and on my advice [TS]

  very big featured I mean featured pretty [TS]

  prominently in miami vice and you know [TS]

  it is the politics of contraband that's [TS]

  right isn't [TS]

  bloggers and i think yeah I think I'm [TS]

  talking about glenn frey and 74 he was [TS]

  already a star but he thought to grow a [TS]

  mustache which I have like pre-dawn [TS]

  fielder [TS]

  yeah that one hell of a guitar player he [TS]

  was I'm not [TS]

  I can't believe we've talked about the [TS]

  Eagles this much eagles are a [TS]

  complicated topic for a lot of people [TS]

  tonight did I ever tell you about the [TS]

  first time that i became aware of the [TS]

  fact that people hate the Eagles because [TS]

  growing up in the seventies in Alaska [TS]

  without a big brother [TS]

  let's just stipulate i did not have a [TS]

  big brother i'm just getting the Eagles [TS]

  the same way everybody else got the [TS]

  eagles they were kind of everywhere they [TS]

  were everywhere and my older [TS]

  well I just said that I didn't have a [TS]

  big brother but in fact i do have two [TS]

  older brothers but they're much older [TS]

  and they did not function as Big [TS]

  Brother's for me [TS]

  non-canonical that's right they are [TS]

  there they were big brothers in a [TS]

  different orbit but one of my brother's [TS]

  gave my dad the cassette tape i'm sorry [TS]

  the 8-track tape of hotel california [TS]

  because he wanted my dad to hear the [TS]

  song life in the fast lane and my dad [TS]

  really embraced the concept of life in [TS]

  the fast lane and used to say it all the [TS]

  time used to quote it and he didn't [TS]

  really play the 8-track but it was lying [TS]

  around the house and dad would say like [TS]

  well that's life in the fast lane [TS]

  we're livin life in the fast lane and so [TS]

  from a young age I was like life in the [TS]

  fast lane is where we are [TS]

  first of all me and my dad and second of [TS]

  all it's where you want to be and I the [TS]

  the idea that life in the fast lane was [TS]

  not a place that you wanted to be which [TS]

  is I think the message of the song and [TS]

  dad didn't really dive down the lyrics [TS]

  long enough to you know it's a classic [TS]

  it's a classic like born in the USA [TS]

  problem right people didn't get the [TS]

  what the song was actually about but [TS]

  sometime it was post-high school for me [TS]

  after I was in Seattle early nineties [TS]

  somebody said to me casually offhand you [TS]

  know like all that that band is terrible [TS]

  there they're almost as bad as the [TS]

  eagles and I was like what do you mean [TS]

  II the Eagles are bagged by how do you [TS]

  mean the Eagles are bad the Eagles are [TS]

  one of the they're one of the great [TS]

  bands there right up there with Lynyrd [TS]

  Skynyrd and uh and traffic and they're [TS]

  up there anything in the seventies they [TS]

  were kind of up there with maybe like [TS]

  the stones were they were like you know [TS]

  like Mona Lisa band where it's like they [TS]

  were just they were still there so there [TS]

  it would be unusual to have that strong [TS]

  of a negative feeling about them [TS]

  everybody nobody dislike them and [TS]

  everybody kind of like them i think that [TS]

  they were bigger than the stones in the [TS]

  US and well i mean i don't i can't go I [TS]

  can't go over there and see what it's [TS]

  like to be over in Europe in the [TS]

  seventies I can't even get there in my [TS]

  mind but I'm always surprised that when [TS]

  you look at record sales how relatively [TS]

  few records the stones sold relative to [TS]

  other bands that you that you don't [TS]

  think of as being bigger than the stones [TS]

  like you think of the stones as being [TS]

  pretty much top tier by any reckoning [TS]

  but the stones didn't really sell that [TS]

  many records and I mean obviously they [TS]

  sold lots and lots and lots of Records [TS]

  but i think that there might have even [TS]

  been stones albums the debt that didn't [TS]

  go platinum [TS]

  yeah especially in like the post exile [TS]

  period where they they had their own [TS]

  kind of little Jean help for a while [TS]

  where they had that hits but I mean like [TS]

  that some girls sell that many copies [TS]

  I don't know go to soup no that's like [TS]

  69 68 or 69 right but I mean do you own [TS]

  godson did you know uh no i don't i have [TS]

  some great stuff [TS]

  I have beggars banquet was called the [TS]

  cake 1 i've got is on Main Street is one [TS]

  of my favorites get those I've got going [TS]

  back to set up some girls and I had had [TS]

  some singles at the time but you know I [TS]

  mean they're sleeping around 50 years [TS]

  people people have been feeling like the [TS]

  stones are phoning it in longer most of [TS]

  the majority of their career right but [TS]

  but but you know the Eagles have the [TS]

  best selling record of all time or [TS]

  something well just alternate greatest [TS]

  their greatest hits the first greatest [TS]

  hits record was at one point at least [TS]

  only they got hell freezes over hell [TS]

  freezes over i think one of the highest [TS]

  selling as well [TS]

  yeah good point good well so anyway I [TS]

  just socially so you become at this [TS]

  point young John has become aware aware [TS]

  that people hate the Eagles yes and then [TS]

  it was one of those things I remember [TS]

  the first time somebody said i was i was [TS]

  working at a pizza parlor and about 1992 [TS]

  and somebody said you know can I get [TS]

  extra pepperoni on the slice or [TS]

  something I put extra pepperoni or forum [TS]

  and the guy said right on and i had [TS]

  never heard that the no one has ever [TS]

  said right arm to me in with that kind [TS]

  of musicality right on and right on felt [TS]

  like a sixties phrase uh-huh right on [TS]

  who and in 1992 saying right on with [TS]

  that kind of casual like flip and right [TS]

  on felt very much like a someone is [TS]

  knocking on my door [TS]

  Oh No expecting anyone no let me go over [TS]

  here and see what happens when you [TS]

  proceed with caution sure iím this is [TS]

  unusual [TS]

  alright you stay with her ok Johnson [TS]

  just stepping away from the microphone [TS]

  you're gonna do spiral arms starting [TS]

  when [TS]

  thank you talking if you hadn't come [TS]

  along something everybody thanks for [TS]

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  brought to you in part by braintree code [TS]

  for easy online payments to learn more [TS]

  right now visit braintree payments [TS]

  dot-com / supertrain if your mobile app [TS]

  developer i know a lot of you are you [TS]

  gotta check out braintree braintree is [TS]

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  learn more right now and for your first [TS]

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  fee-free please go check them out at [TS]

  braintree payments dot-com / supertrain [TS]

  our thanks to braintree for taking the [TS]

  pain out of mobile payments and for [TS]

  supporting Roderick on the loss is gonna [TS]

  get interesting did you catch that I [TS]

  surely did that was thinking Jarrod was [TS]

  journey heard from fire protection [TS]

  protection Thank You Jared for the heads [TS]

  up they're gonna be ringing the bells [TS]

  let's keep we can't done you get some [TS]

  happy about you put pepperoni on the [TS]

  pizza with pepperoni on this guy's beats [TS]

  and he said right on and i was like huh [TS]

  it was a I absolutely remember it's [TS]

  standing out to me because it was that [TS]

  great way that culture does we're at [TS]

  first it seemed like this one [TS]

  particularly cool guy [TS]

  had taken a phrase from the sixties and [TS]

  had just thrown it out there super cache [TS]

  and and it and it works somehow like [TS]

  right on but then working in this pizza [TS]

  parlor in the next four weeks i heard [TS]

  then a second guy say right on and I was [TS]

  like wait a minute i noted it the second [TS]

  time i heard it and by four weeks in it [TS]

  had become a ubiquitous sort of [TS]

  catchphrase for approximately what year [TS]

  is this [TS]

  90-93 some 193 let's say okay and then [TS]

  it all over Seattle [TS]

  everyone said right on it went viral [TS]

  it went viral and I said right on and i [TS]

  continue to say right on now 20-plus [TS]

  years later and it was just a it was [TS]

  like the first time I heard dude you [TS]

  know it just became I I didn't realize [TS]

  in that moment that this was not a [TS]

  passing thing that this was going to be [TS]

  coming unimportant part a key part of [TS]

  the way that I was a cool dude [TS]

  because if somebody skateboards up to [TS]

  you always over the curb flips their [TS]

  board up grabs it in their hand and says [TS]

  hey John what's up [TS]

  it is eighty-five percent certain that [TS]

  i'm going to say right on over [TS]

  I mean it's such a great response to so [TS]

  many things if anybody Ali's within half [TS]

  a mile of me I'm probably going to say [TS]

  right off uh-huh [TS]

  anyway same with Eagles hatred oh i see [TS]

  i heard this guy say the Eagles are [TS]

  bullshit at a party and I was shocked by [TS]

  it and within three weeks every single [TS]

  person I knew [TS]

  oh here we go to hear the bells idea [TS]

  thank God Garrett stop by [TS]

  well you know they're not [TS]

  not really that loud John it's not that [TS]

  loud i think i would it would it would [TS]

  wake me up from a nap but yeah it's a [TS]

  very i like it i was expecting more like [TS]

  reunion me [TS]

  yeah I mean I gotta be honest with you [TS]

  is I would just for your own safety I [TS]

  would hope for something a little more [TS]

  muscular man yeah but that sounds like a [TS]

  prius backing up [TS]

  but-but-but be that there's a kind of [TS]

  grinding that's happening underneath the [TS]

  beeping hear that yeah [TS]

  hey it's struggling well either [TS]

  struggling or it feels like it's more of [TS]

  an apocalypse alarm right it's more like [TS]

  what's there was to be a klaxon a klaxon [TS]

  ride a like a like an air raid [TS]

  yea though the december seven the [TS]

  morning of that's right somebody [TS]

  standing on a on a wooden towers like [TS]

  with a lever her running the klaxon so I [TS]

  don't know how long that's gonna last i [TS]

  hope it's not to start because it is it [TS]

  you think it's disturbing don't know no [TS]

  I don't think I'll be fine okay [TS]

  I mean do you remember do you remember a [TS]

  moment where the Eagles because they [TS]

  think that there was so much revisionism [TS]

  in seattle in the early nineties where [TS]

  everybody agreed that they had always [TS]

  been against the eagles oh yeah the [TS]

  right kind absolutely everybody agreed [TS]

  that they had always been you know I [TS]

  mean that the primary one being that [TS]

  every person in their twenties in [TS]

  Seattle had always been punk rock [TS]

  exactly that's exactly what i was [TS]

  thinking it's it's it's so easy to [TS]

  revise yourself back into like what was [TS]

  that you know that this should the Sex [TS]

  Pistols showing Manchester you know that [TS]

  they're supposedly like 10 people there [TS]

  but like everyone that was there [TS]

  woodstock everybody sees himself as [TS]

  having been there at the Genesis my god [TS]

  how long will that go on do you think [TS]

  it's over now huh you talk about the [TS]

  alarm and yes I revisionism know their [TS]

  visions will go on and on and on until [TS]

  11 i don't i'm trying to place i mean [TS]

  the the one of my head is like it's a [TS]

  joke in the big lebowski that you know [TS]

  no I his eagles yeah right but like I [TS]

  don't remember that being a me [TS]

  Emma but but no but the thing is I don't [TS]

  remember being mean but I definitely [TS]

  remember being something where they just [TS]

  rolls their eyes of the Eagles gonna [TS]

  give you some numbers just real quick [TS]

  here let's hear some numbers of kids [TS]

  from wikipedia which is never wrong some [TS]

  some of the big ones long run i'm just [TS]

  going to be us numbers long run 7 x [TS]

  platinum 17 x platinum yeah it's not [TS]

  small [TS]

  it's just I'm just picking out for you [TS]

  here at eagles live from 1987 x platinum [TS]

  hotel california 16 x platinum Eagles [TS]

  greatest hits 71-75 put on februari of a [TS]

  76 29 x platinum in America alone [TS]

  oh my fucking god how many records are [TS]

  there that have done 30 million i mean [TS]

  there's obviously there's obviously [TS]

  michael jackson's hmm a seminal record [TS]

  thriller had like seven singles on it i [TS]

  think seven or eight [TS]

  let's get 30 million records that's got [TS]

  to be that's going to be a handful of [TS]

  records that have ever done that kind of [TS]

  trade [TS]

  yeah yeah uh-huh 30 million records [TS]

  equals greatest hits [TS]

  I don't know though I I am I i kinda [TS]

  like I like eagles well see this is the [TS]

  thing about the Eagles right if you can [TS]

  separate first of all if you can if you [TS]

  can erase the picture of dawn fri [TS]

  wearing a Mexican blanket in joshua tree [TS]

  from her mind fri if you can raise i'm [TS]

  talking about on friday now if you're [TS]

  talking to a guy from Steely Dan done [TS]

  talking for hi Joe vagin was a weapon [TS]

  when Rhys older brother who is a lawyer [TS]

  and if you leave my car here [TS]

  I can't get the picture in Mexican [TS]

  blanket and joshua tree tripping on [TS]

  p.o.l.o you're in a blanket [TS]

  I cannot so I if you can get those but [TS]

  the problem is you can't get now now [TS]

  let's take that is part of it is the the [TS]

  that does those images you can't get [TS]

  smugglers blues out of your heads the [TS]

  thing about good thing about as well as [TS]

  blue sounds like something on [TS]

  urbandictionary man about that chick [TS]

  fucking lobster now getting smuggled out [TS]

  of this [TS]

  I was sitting under its last coffee [TS]

  table and and she crashed over the top [TS]

  and gave him a Smuggler's bloons hahaha [TS]

  nobody but the thing is like like the [TS]

  the Don Henley singles who the boys of [TS]

  summer and the the other one about the [TS]

  about marxist revolution in nicaragua or [TS]

  whatever his two singles in the eighties [TS]

  were oh right yes I like oh dance dance [TS]

  dance [TS]

  all she wants to do is dance all she [TS]

  wants to do is dance that's right you [TS]

  got that Johnny can't read from his uh [TS]

  from his less well known us for solo [TS]

  album and I like the boys of summer [TS]

  partly because i'm a big mike campbell [TS]

  fan I think boys of summer is exquisite [TS]

  he told me that Mike Campbell of the [TS]

  bikers up the heartbreakers plays on [TS]

  boys someone on bomb [TS]

  you're kidding totally my candle oh my [TS]

  god that is one of the most tasteful [TS]

  guitar parts everything [TS]

  well you know he's very good at tasteful [TS]

  guitar that church of that changes [TS]

  everything and only in a good way i [TS]

  already really like that song I couldn't [TS]

  escape but it was there was one [TS]

  particular moment in the eighties when i [TS]

  was still riding the school bus I was 15 [TS]

  I couldn't you couldn't drive yet [TS]

  obviously and the school bus driver [TS]

  listen to the radio and you know in [TS]

  Alaska in the winter it's obviously very [TS]

  dark and cold on your way to school and [TS]

  we're all kind of huddled in the school [TS]

  bus and the windows are icing over and [TS]

  there's nothing to look at outside but [TS]

  just some dark frozen nothing and every [TS]

  morning because that was the style of [TS]

  radio at the time they would play Don [TS]

  Henley's boys of summer kind of the same [TS]

  moment every morning like halfway [TS]

  through the school bus ride the two [TS]

  would come on [TS]

  they also played dancing days by the by [TS]

  Zeppelin on our don't know every morning [TS]

  at about the same time so these songs [TS]

  are kind of like drilled into my head [TS]

  and conjured that that ride to school [TS]

  really powerfully in me but you know how [TS]

  do you not like how do you not like boys [TS]

  of summer its various usually cut its I [TS]

  i want to obviously but it seems [TS]

  calculated to create a certain feeling [TS]

  and it really does that for me even even [TS]

  listening to it I have a certain feeling [TS]

  about in 85 and now whatever 30 years [TS]

  later I still have a certain feeling [TS]

  about it [TS]

  well I'm not feeling very evocative and [TS]

  very affecting that deadhead stick [TS]

  around a Cadillac line even it and the [TS]

  Wayfarers tip of the hat [TS]

  yea even at the time I felt like those [TS]

  were cynical and contrived and yet [TS]

  powerfully effective because i think [TS]

  that stick on a calyx pretty good line [TS]

  it's a great line but it felt very much [TS]

  it felt very pandering of a certain [TS]

  moment in 1980 whatever 80 whenever that [TS]

  was for 85 85 where where that was [TS]

  exactly the kind of rye knowingness that [TS]

  we all craved having like whoa man dead [TS]

  had sticker on a Cadillac right here [TS]

  bright am i right [TS]

  MRA and then the Wayfarers was just like [TS]

  some product placement [TS]

  uh-huh that really equated with the fact [TS]

  that everybody was wearing wafers except [TS]

  me i was wearing four days actually [TS]

  everybody was wearing Barney's to let's [TS]

  be honest there are only two kinds of [TS]

  sunglasses this is just getting worse [TS]

  and it's getting worse and worse there [TS]

  were Wayfarers people in their Barney's [TS]

  people and if I'm true if I'm honest [TS]

  with myself now i realize that i should [TS]

  have been away fares / so my god dead [TS]

  stick on a Cadillac you know what i mean [TS]

  is all identified as against this person [TS]

  because it it was more like what i [TS]

  thought i was no more Outsiders a little [TS]

  more ideas than Nikki yeah and I'm like [TS]

  no I'm a Barney's guy [TS]

  her but now I you know and I think for a [TS]

  long time I've if I were if I was honest [TS]

  with myself it was like now you were [TS]

  away from this guy the whole time [TS]

  Michael Jackson's Thriller forty-two [TS]

  point four million that's been that's [TS]

  bonkers but wait a minute [TS]

  the Eagles was 40 right 39 and let's see [TS]

  this is that this is a riaa i think i'm [TS]

  not sure i'm looking on the best-selling [TS]

  there's there's a 12345678 albums that [TS]

  have sold over 40 million copies if you [TS]

  if you want and when I'm sorry I'm sorry [TS]

  this isn't claimed sales claimed sales [TS]

  if you want the real 7151 265 million [TS]

  claim sales 42 certified in America or [TS]

  I'm not sure ACDC got 25 I'm just I'm [TS]

  just greatness on a on a curve here [TS]

  ACDC but back in black 25 million copies [TS]

  and there's there's some interesting [TS]

  ones in here bat out of hell by meatloaf [TS]

  20 million so that is the one when I've [TS]

  looked at this list before which I have [TS]

  done a thousand times the thing about [TS]

  soundscan I don't have you ever known [TS]

  somebody that had access to soundscan [TS]

  not directly i do remember when it came [TS]

  into being because it's when i was [TS]

  playing in bands of my friend it was [TS]

  like there are 92 or so write something [TS]

  around then nevermind the other guitar [TS]

  player my band was the manager of an [TS]

  awesome yacht be awesome record store in [TS]

  town and soundscan changed everything [TS]

  yes all the sudden everyone what while [TS]

  people are not listening to nearly as [TS]

  much of this pop rock as we thought and [TS]

  way more country than one more entry [TS]

  right so much more country [TS]

  come on when hip-hop tell the nice [TS]

  people how does what happened in the pre [TS]

  soundscan in the cocaine days versus the [TS]

  post soundscan what was the big [TS]

  soundscan they're doing the sales at the [TS]

  terminal it's not shipped copies its how [TS]

  many things people paid money for in a [TS]

  store right right and I and I you know I [TS]

  think that be I think that prior to [TS]

  soundscan the like the country music [TS]

  people didn't really even the the that [TS]

  culture wasn't driven by or rather that [TS]

  country music charts [TS]

  we're thing that the pop culture people [TS]

  just ignored who cared if you if you [TS]

  bought country records you bought them [TS]

  somewhere it was a good almost like had [TS]

  a big asterisk on it [TS]

  yeah right like it wasn't it wasn't like [TS]

  I'm just guessing here but it's almost [TS]

  like that well that's not really who [TS]

  were going for right yeah and and so [TS]

  whatwhat's and the charts were the [TS]

  charts were reported by radio right that [TS]

  was it was like it was casey kasem like [TS]

  he was some combination of yet the [TS]

  Billboard style charts which are totally [TS]

  crooked and you've got at one time the [TS]

  report was based on number of copies [TS]

  that were shipped ship which is why you [TS]

  could buy a copy of the kiss solo albums [TS]

  until like last month like they were in [TS]

  cut out for like 20 years because the [TS]

  number that shift we had to be the [TS]

  neuron much exactly how it worked but [TS]

  the record stores got the money back for [TS]

  the cutouts but they were still counted [TS]

  as being sold i think women i'm getting [TS]

  it now [TS]

  billboard built that because there was [TS]

  no system billboard just call record [TS]

  stores [TS]

  really yeah billboard had people that [TS]

  called record stores and asked them [TS]

  about their sales that's crazy and so so [TS]

  people at the rest would be like oh yeah [TS]

  Chris solo records sellin and the eagles [TS]

  records been selling a lot but there was [TS]

  also like record companies like David [TS]

  Geffen I'm sure did this would just send [TS]

  those guys a hundred-dollar bill in the [TS]

  family and say hey make sure you make [TS]

  sure you tell them that Don Henley's [TS]

  selling that stuff is that's never gone [TS]

  away [TS]

  yeah so uh so then all of a sudden you [TS]

  do they could track it but then but then [TS]

  the airplay thing was the thing that [TS]

  like you remember a lot of those bands [TS]

  that were really really big on mtv in [TS]

  the early days [TS]

  turns out they didn't sell any records [TS]

  at all but their records were there [TS]

  their videos were high rotation and so [TS]

  it felt like they were huge [TS]

  anyway so yeah when soundscan came out [TS]

  it was suddenly revealed that the big [TS]

  just country records were selling more [TS]

  than the big rock records right and that [TS]

  was the dawn of country music as a [TS]

  country music is like a major economic [TS]

  and cultural force number for the [TS]

  bodyguard 27.4 million and and that's [TS]

  why nick lowe never have to work again [TS]

  well and also like what's interesting to [TS]

  me and I learned this through the [TS]

  through being friends with the posies [TS]

  alright is there on Austin Powers know [TS]

  they were on a reality bites [TS]

  oh yeah I'm sorry I told me this and if [TS]

  you get one song on the soundtrack like [TS]

  that so look at look at all the all the [TS]

  other songs on the bodyguard soundtrack [TS]

  right if you look at bodyguard [TS]

  soundtrack there some people on there [TS]

  that just that just basically punched [TS]

  their ticket they got some song on there [TS]

  that nobody gives a shit about but that [TS]

  but that that thing sold 27 million [TS]

  copies and they get some small [TS]

  percentage of every one of those which [TS]

  is which ends up being not small [TS]

  this is really interesting but but to [TS]

  have access to real soundscan which is [TS]

  which is a wonderful thing because it [TS]

  enables you to do if you and I had [TS]

  access to soundscan we would basically [TS]

  just be a podcast we would never [TS]

  it would it would take a moment to run [TS]

  the the raw firehouse [TS]

  yeah because you can say to me tell me [TS]

  how many records did a the James Gang [TS]

  cell i could probably say how many [TS]

  copies of the worst you can do as [TS]

  hard-working as harm sold the week [TS]

  before christmas in 2007 and you can go [TS]

  look that up you could say how many [TS]

  copies did the worst you can do is hard [TS]

  to sell the week before christmas in st. [TS]

  Louis Howe man and I could go look it up [TS]

  and so it's it's endlessly entertaining [TS]

  and it's beautiful and I do I have [TS]

  friends that have access to it because [TS]

  costs it costs $15,000 or something to [TS]

  have all that data in the only you know [TS]

  only record labels and certain you know [TS]

  journalist I mean you have to pay for it [TS]

  like share like like buying pro tools or [TS]

  whatever you it's a it's a it's a thing [TS]

  that [TS]

  Justin Barcia can pursue never had [TS]

  soundscan but like merge does or be a [TS]

  bigger is better [TS]

  sure so it's one of the great it's one [TS]

  of the great gal baker's pink with ok [TS]

  right and it's alright so you got you [TS]

  your front with the glasses with move [TS]

  aside you get this in his chair for a [TS]

  minute that's right then my favorite [TS]

  thing to do is I'll be out in the world [TS]

  and I will you know but be somewhere and [TS]

  i'll meet some musician and we'll shake [TS]

  hands and hang out and have a coffee and [TS]

  a drink and or somebody will be like oh [TS]

  yeah are you can get from you know you [TS]

  know I know WT ours and I might have [TS]

  meant to me and how are you and we [TS]

  talked and we sit and have some coffee [TS]

  and then i excuse myself and go to the [TS]

  bathroom and I send a text to my man in [TS]

  havana and I say how many records to [TS]

  defeat Garza cell in 1997 and then I get [TS]

  the data back and then I can [TS]

  contextualize my relationship with that [TS]

  person and sometimes it's wonderful [TS]

  oh my god that's so that's thrilling [TS]

  because I'll be sitting with somebody [TS]

  and they'll be throwing they'll be [TS]

  throwing attitude at me because of how [TS]

  rock-and-roll they are and how then I'll [TS]

  find out what their soundscan numbers [TS]

  are through my through my back door man [TS]

  who and then I'm like oh you know what's [TS]

  up 18,000 I don't say it don't say it to [TS]

  him maybe they can see in your eyes [TS]

  well I don't I don't I don't take any [TS]

  shade off of them after I figure out [TS]

  like Oh your your your bestseller record [TS]

  and shit fool just because you know just [TS]

  because you've got skinny jeans on and [TS]

  you're wearing some and you're wearing a [TS]

  class clash badge on your Levi's jacket [TS]

  doesn't mean you can pitch attitude at [TS]

  me because you sold 21,000 records [TS]

  please check your numbers and that [TS]

  doesn't yeah it doesn't that I don't [TS]

  give a shit good for you good for you [TS]

  man [TS]

  not afraid to really get in there mix it [TS]

  up yeah but the problem is you check [TS]

  somebody's numbers and they're like [TS]

  fucking sold 60,000 acres and I gotta [TS]

  shut up now [TS]

  Spice Girls album spice from 1996 28 [TS]

  million that's impossible [TS]

  so yeah I refuse to accept that Adele [TS]

  her album 21 [TS]

  ironically enough 20 [TS]

  you 1.3 million copies but more than [TS]

  abbey road so right and Adele I mean she [TS]

  is a contemporary star of the of the [TS]

  moment and of the times [TS]

  yes and there are a lot more people now [TS]

  that's true there are more people right [TS]

  people people born people die Jagged [TS]

  Little Pill 24.8 million see I believe [TS]

  that because i still hear that should [TS]

  all the time in like that record and so [TS]

  that I didn't like it that its charm [TS]

  yeah it is that there was something [TS]

  about the way she chewed on her vowels [TS]

  that was like she was actually chewing [TS]

  on my bones honest why you to my bones [TS]

  while you chew in my bones and and and [TS]

  and and it might have been that I was [TS]

  you know that was that the area where a [TS]

  lot of satire not that different in age [TS]

  family and she was a she was precisely [TS]

  the age of the girl that was working [TS]

  behind the counter at the copy shop that [TS]

  I was trying to chat up over and that [TS]

  girl was lit actually listening to that [TS]

  record while shopping alright alright [TS]

  again chance on that one then she was [TS]

  glaring at me because it was really [TS]

  ironic and I was just like oh this is [TS]

  these are these are the worst of times [TS]

  little did I know how much worse it was [TS]

  going to be able to give honor nevermind [TS]

  16.7 million so you know that's [TS]

  impressive [TS]

  that's pretty good i wouldn't have known [TS]

  that what about Pearl Jam's 10 not even [TS]

  up there right 60 million [TS]

  I don't see it on this page and you see [TS]

  the guns and roses 21.3 appetite to 21 [TS]

  32 party to see that's I would see [TS]

  that's it [TS]

  I mean that's impressive knowledge and [TS]

  that explains why some of my friends who [TS]

  were formerly in Guns and Roses don't [TS]

  have to work now [TS]

  yes but but just think about sears what [TS]

  nobody understands this is what I I [TS]

  never could get with the whole I could [TS]

  kind of get with it but the whole like [TS]

  Michael Jackson beat up thing about how [TS]

  he was in bad shape for money [TS]

  like what it's you and certifications we [TS]

  will because if you go in and you like [TS]

  build up this lifestyle and you have a [TS]

  fucking giraffe and like you do all this [TS]

  stuff like that's quite a nut is around [TS]

  for everything its ramifications you get [TS]

  all that stuff on the scene is good [TS]

  better and different i'm saying is that [TS]

  like if you've never just because you've [TS]

  never had as much money as Michael [TS]

  Jackson doesn't mean you can't have a [TS]

  little sympathy for like what happens [TS]

  today so if you have been planning out [TS]

  the last 20 or 30 years of your life [TS]

  based on how the last 15 years went by [TS]

  put better put what if what if what if [TS]

  you were Nick Lowe and like you have you [TS]

  were spending money as though it were [TS]

  1999 mm just assuming that hey the CD [TS]

  things going to just keep going up and [TS]

  up and up [TS]

  I'm just saying it must be a pretty [TS]

  different world not just for for the the [TS]

  guy from galaxy 500 but for like ever [TS]

  everybody it must be so crazy today I [TS]

  just can't even imagine what the graphs [TS]

  look like for some of this stuff i think [TS]

  michael jackson's problem was that he he [TS]

  he took out payday loans but he did like [TS]

  high-end payday loans [TS]

  yeah he was just he he he knew that the [TS]

  money was gonna come in and so he took [TS]

  out big loans from from shady operators [TS]

  based on his future earnings and then [TS]

  all of a sudden he could borrow against [TS]

  time he owned the beatles he owned sorry [TS]

  the the Macklin catalog right right [TS]

  right northern songs or whatever [TS]

  yeah but he got you know the problem [TS]

  with that is then then you're on you're [TS]

  on some ups and downs and you're paying [TS]

  eighteen percent interest and you know [TS]

  it i do not think that he was very wise [TS]

  well I think about this all the time in [TS]

  the sense that I'm lucky that I never [TS]

  made any money at all until I was 40 [TS]

  right right because by then all my [TS]

  patterns were established I always live [TS]

  like I always live basically like the [TS]

  cook on a wagon train [TS]

  how come I've got my one pan and a bag [TS]

  of dried beans and some panic and a [TS]

  handgrip and coffee grinder and it's [TS]

  closer to the truth than I really you [TS]

  know any drink more tea coffee [TS]

  yeah you eat larger buckets of food yeah [TS]

  but I cook all my food in one pan throw [TS]

  some pork fat in there throw some beans [TS]

  in there got the ring the dinner bell [TS]

  thinking anything [TS]

  come on get it boys and you know and so [TS]

  now I now that's the thing I'm really [TS]

  ready for a big huge pile of money to [TS]

  fall on me because I know I would never [TS]

  take out a payday loan i would never [TS]

  assume that I would ever make any more [TS]

  money after that [TS]

  yeah it would be really nice right now [TS]

  for studio somebody to ring my doorbell [TS]

  thing better than a warning about a [TS]

  firearm yeah somebody ring my doorbell [TS]

  and I opened the door and there are two [TS]

  guys to kind of big guys in in those [TS]

  black suits where you feel like yeah [TS]

  somebody somebody paid good money for [TS]

  these suits but these guys are just so [TS]

  big that it's hard to get a suit to fit [TS]

  right yeah yeah and they're both wearing [TS]

  sunglasses and one of them has one of [TS]

  those a clear earphone curlicue [TS]

  earphones absolutely yeah and they say [TS]

  John Roderick and I go yes and they go [TS]

  like can only scan your retina or get [TS]

  thumbprint got some proof [TS]

  we're going to present you have a [TS]

  briefcase that handcuffed nobody's is [TS]

  because because it were talking about it [TS]

  we're trying to a larger sum of money [TS]

  than could be contained in a briefcase [TS]

  no parabens no Barry Bonds and I go yeah [TS]

  I'm John Rother can they go great [TS]

  there's somebody would like to talk to [TS]

  you and then and I look out in the front [TS]

  and there's like kind of monkey less of [TS]

  a man being pushed up in a wheelchair [TS]

  and now there are three life [TS]

  downright three black Suburbans right [TS]

  uh-huh okay in the door the door opens [TS]

  11 a guy gets out he's a young guy he's [TS]

  wearing a teacher maybe he's got a maybe [TS]

  he's got a hoodie so we could get the [TS]

  app class after class exactly he's [TS]

  wearing a hoodie but he's also got a [TS]

  suit jacket on but it's kind of you know [TS]

  like a plan or whatever and he's like oh [TS]

  my god John Roderick am i right [TS]

  he's like right on and he always up to [TS]

  my front porch and I'm like a man and [TS]

  he's like hey what's up [TS]

  shaka-brah gives me some kind of [TS]

  complicated handshake [TS]

  yep and then he's like listen big fan of [TS]

  router on the line just wanted you to [TS]

  know tomorrow my company is going public [TS]

  and i flew up here just to say that for [TS]

  all the help you've given us [TS]

  I just want to i want to have you in on [TS]

  this initial public offering and I'm [TS]

  just I'm just gonna give you 20 million [TS]

  chairs [TS]

  he already paid for oh yeah they're just [TS]

  it's just he just had a mere marked who [TS]

  is he recognized the importance of [TS]

  rhetoric on the line to his hole in the [TS]

  other thought technologies built up in [TS]

  him and enabled him to be like i'ma [TS]

  guard the genius grant money [TS]

  exactly and then I you know what who me [TS]

  and he's like all i need to do is sign a [TS]

  couple of pieces of paper and then a guy [TS]

  gets out with the with thick glasses who [TS]

  kind of looks like the guy in the blade [TS]

  runner who is who designs eyeballs are [TS]

  you sure [TS]

  and he comes out and he's got a bunch of [TS]

  like complicated that I'm not signing [TS]

  any pieces of paper it's all digital [TS]

  private like you put your finger in a [TS]

  digital paez see I didn't exactly if he [TS]

  gives you one virtual reality contract [TS]

  have to walk into a virtual office for [TS]

  site maybe this is the product maybe the [TS]

  product is a company that makes virtual [TS]

  contract experiences and the kid is [TS]

  standing there kind of proud and kind of [TS]

  smug and like my great-great-great am i [TS]

  right am i right look at this [TS]

  hey turn your head to the side okay now [TS]

  turn it sideways all right what would [TS]

  you see at that and I'm like amazing [TS]

  this is incredible [TS]

  I don't deserve this and he's like [TS]

  listen this is the least i can do this [TS]

  is the least I can do to repay you [TS]

  and then the whole thing gets back there [TS]

  all pile back into the into the [TS]

  Suburbans which it turns out our are [TS]

  hydrogen powered mm and then blew off [TS]

  they go [TS]

  yep and then the next day it's on the [TS]

  front page all the newspapers now I [TS]

  would want my heart fuck well no not my [TS]

  not my thing but the idea that blew up [TS]

  the skits it's dipi and all digital [TS]

  contract store offices have changed the [TS]

  way that we do everything it's literally [TS]

  disruptive that's right and it's [TS]

  incredibly disruptive product and shares [TS]

  it's a fire sale on these things [TS]

  there were three hundred dollars apiece [TS]

  the stock split on its first day and i'm [TS]

  just sitting there like what do I do now [TS]

  uh-huh and I and I take my dinner bell [TS]

  down and my and my one all I don't think [TS]

  so i don't want to know why don't I put [TS]

  a minute I put them in my small bag and [TS]

  your window and and and I locked the [TS]

  door of the house and you know and then [TS]

  I'm just like kung foo and set it on [TS]

  fire [TS]

  mr. walking the walk in America kids i [TS]

  love that I love that as the last act [TS]

  though is that you finally you [TS]

  though is that you finally you [TS]

  you you finally get the get the possum [TS]

  just be a backup bag you walk away to [TS]

  make sure families out just you [TS]

  literally set on fire what fire it [TS]

  seemed very take it easy buddy it right [TS]

  like like them like a Norwegian funeral [TS]

  ship [TS]

  I don't know what you're talking about [TS]

  here which is what you say goodbye to [TS]

  Gary got one last chance to chat so i [TS]

  had heard a very interesting [TS]

  conversation between Gary and his his [TS]

  landlord dress his land lord Rick's [TS]

  yesterday [TS]

  what is that this is the lady who's been [TS]

  there for a while the lady talk to ya [TS]

  she was yelling at him she came out she [TS]

  was like Gary Gary wake up neatly I hear [TS]

  this band or slide open and she's like [TS]

  is my cat in there it's like I don't [TS]

  even know what you she's like I told you [TS]

  never to take my cat into your van is I [TS]

  don't even know I don't think so and [TS]

  then you can hear this is not a big van [TS]

  it's up it's like a shorty van and you [TS]

  can hear the two of them trying to [TS]

  figure out whether her cat is in his man [TS]

  oh man I 10 now want to search Gary's [TS]

  minivan and they cannot tell me you're [TS]

  either on Gary Gary it's not just the [TS]

  carries not copping to it he's actually [TS]

  legitimately not sure if there's a [TS]

  Katniss man I think Gary new but he's [TS]

  pretty is playing dumb and then turns [TS]

  out the cat is in the van and she yells [TS]

  at him for 10 minutes about the about [TS]

  the cat and then he starts to after he [TS]

  wakes up a little bit he starts to yell [TS]

  back at her and he says at one point he [TS]

  says well I know one thing and that is [TS]

  that i don't know huh [TS]

  I was like that seems like something i [TS]

  should write down was Socrates i think i [TS]

  was waiting now is awake right after the [TS]

  Civil woke me up in the morning and then [TS]

  they started yelling at each other she [TS]

  was like you don't yell at me Gary you [TS]

  do not yell at me and he was like i just [TS]

  feel like i do all the work around here [TS]

  no I know nobody ever gives me any [TS]

  credit and i'm trying to think of a [TS]

  single thing they can [TS]

  has ever done that I've ever seen but I [TS]

  didn't want to get involved i don't want [TS]

  to open my window and be the you know be [TS]

  the bad stick my head out with Mike you [TS]

  know my hair carlex yeah and we'll start [TS]

  waving my pan Adam you know you'd never [TS]

  do anything where do you get up over [TS]

  there and this is all a bit the latest [TS]

  news of course is the people next door [TS]

  to 22 where Gary and Skeeter lived they [TS]

  have a rooster now and it's a it's a [TS]

  young rooster a he's just coming into [TS]

  his own and so his cockadoodledoo is is [TS]

  pretty fucked up [TS]

  it's a immature cockadoodledoo oh that [TS]

  kind of sounds like a ok its kind of [TS]

  people person as we just go [TS]

  yeah and it's just like are you kidding [TS]

  me when does it end [TS]

  but on the plus side the possums are out [TS]

  possums are out touch totally just not [TS]

  there no no noise no traces no nothing [TS]

  so we trapped [TS]

  three possums and they went to live on a [TS]

  farm and then my mom in her inimitable [TS]

  style [TS]

  this is like the last days of my [TS]

  political campaign so I'm working all [TS]

  the time on the campaign we have no time [TS]

  to think about anything my moms like [TS]

  listen I can't abide this I cannot abide [TS]

  that possums are getting into your house [TS]

  and I think everybody thought that I was [TS]

  crazy or something until i trapped three [TS]

  possums and then it was like oh shit he [TS]

  has possums living in his house and so [TS]

  my mom came out five o'clock in the [TS]

  morning as she does and she's strong [TS]

  wire mesh around the the base of my [TS]

  entire house so you talked about this on [TS]

  another program is this really true she [TS]

  dug a trench and filtered out of chicken [TS]

  wire put down to put down tight mesh [TS]

  Jonathan who might be new listeners to [TS]

  our program can ask roughly how old your [TS]

  mom is she's 81 years old [TS]

  okay she's out there but she starts at [TS]

  five in the morning because it's cooler [TS]

  and she's you know [TS]

  he's up already so why not get to work [TS]

  and so by noon every day should be like [TS]

  well that I'm done for the day and she [TS]

  did it on her own time but in the [TS]

  meantime you know the house next door [TS]

  got torn down on the other side and all [TS]

  the rats that we're living in that house [TS]

  went everywhere and so then just as we [TS]

  were getting the possums out I now had [TS]

  rats in the in the ceiling and so then I [TS]

  had to trap the rats but I've now [TS]

  trapped the rats have trapped the [TS]

  possums everything is trapped and in the [TS]

  meantime my mom hermetically sealed the [TS]

  the foundation of the house and and then [TS]

  I lost the election so now I have all [TS]

  the free time in the world ever you [TS]

  choose me and now my house is I think [TS]

  impermeable that's a real roller coaster [TS]

  fee right now I just had you know a lot [TS]

  of ups and downs and now i can feel [TS]

  autumn is coming but also a lot of smoke [TS]

  in the air right now from all the forest [TS]

  fires [TS]

  oh yeah the organ in Washington all [TS]

  kinds of smoking on [TS]

  yep and my entire family is going to [TS]

  Paris without me next week and so [TS]

  prevented by accident or did they tell [TS]

  you [TS]

  yeah yeah well it was the thing we're [TS]

  actually all those suburban pulled up [TS]

  out front and so the guy jumped out at [TS]

  me was like I'm taking your family to [TS]

  Paris shit I'm I'm really busy right now [TS]

  go Paris so they're all going to Paris [TS]

  and then my mom and sister are going to [TS]

  Russia and i am going to be all alone [TS]

  all alone not just all alone but like [TS]

  all alone in America em you need a [TS]

  project I feel like you need to project [TS]

  you do man illegal assertive but you [TS]

  this this I mean that the obvious once [TS]

  you there you could work on your issue [TS]

  days album you could you could you could [TS]

  finish that fucking book there's all [TS]

  kinds of stuff you can do it doesn't [TS]

  have to be a house project this could be [TS]

  a project of the mind could be a project [TS]

  of the soul and heart i could they will [TS]

  you something that's going to keep you [TS]

  occupied where you might have something [TS]

  you know you hold your hand when you're [TS]

  done okay well let me know maybe we [TS]

  should put this to our listeners ok here [TS]

  are the choices right should I finish [TS]

  the long winters record which is a [TS]

  fully-fledged rock record which only [TS]

  needs lyrics should i get along winners [TS]

  record is done except for lyrics [TS]

  that's right should I sound of my all [TS]

  meeting my face okay that's one that's [TS]

  one should i make a record of super sad [TS]

  solo acoustic piano jams where I sing in [TS]

  a low register sort of gravely not Tom [TS]

  Waits but like sad breathy slow piano [TS]

  James you can make a few gonna happen [TS]

  helpful yeah basically [TS]

  should I make like a bleeps and bloops [TS]

  record of loops and like up-tempo [TS]

  electronic a problem EDM John not EDM [TS]

  but like like like electro-pop [TS]

  electroclash something is aloose bleeps [TS]

  and bloops yeah something like that [TS]

  so those are the three musical options [TS]

  ok I could finish my book about my walk [TS]

  across europe i could graduate from the [TS]

  University of Washington huh [TS]

  I i could write a different book about [TS]

  my recent experiences or I could set to [TS]

  work on developing a television show for [TS]

  the internet okay what what that's like [TS]

  six [TS]

  yeah something like that you got it you [TS]

  got long winters you got long winters [TS]

  you got bleeps and bloops you got low [TS]

  register piano right you've got finished [TS]

  the book about the walk [TS]

  you've got a row graduate from college [TS]

  and graduate from university of [TS]

  washington that's easy to do [TS]

  wouldn't take much but it's you know [TS]

  what is going to paper paperwork is [TS]

  paperwork tonight as creative you can [TS]

  read a new book about your recent [TS]

  experiences know what was the last 10 [TS]

  alright a TV show for the internet [TS]

  develop a television show for the [TS]

  internet I [TS]

  it's all roughly the kind of things that [TS]

  maybe not necessarily finish could you [TS]

  make a pretty good cut in most of those [TS]

  over to three weeks i think if I devoted [TS]

  myself entirely to any one of those [TS]

  things for two weeks where it was just [TS]

  like this is all you're doing for two [TS]

  weeks [TS]

  I'm far enough along on all of those if [TS]

  I spent nothing but two weeks deciding [TS]

  to graduate from college I would [TS]

  graduate who if I spent nothing but two [TS]

  weeks writing lyrics to the long winters [TS]

  record i would I feel like I would need [TS]

  something additional to that like not [TS]

  just this is all you're doing for two [TS]

  weeks but there are real consequences [TS]

  I don't think there are any consequences [TS]

  to not finishing because I've already [TS]

  endured all of those who but there if [TS]

  there were some real if finishing in two [TS]

  weeks [TS]

  finishing that record produced some some [TS]

  kind of immediate result like like that [TS]

  the that day you will be you know you'll [TS]

  be ushered into the to a new room in [TS]

  your own house that you didn't know was [TS]

  there [TS]

  mmm something something where we're for [TS]

  like I have a have a that it's not just [TS]

  two weeks from now I'm gonna have these [TS]

  songs two weeks more worked on right [TS]

  it's that two weeks from now if this [TS]

  record is done than X like yeah at two [TS]

  weeks up i don't think that would be [TS]

  enough to finish the book about the walk [TS]

  across Europe but it but it would it [TS]

  wouldn't hurt it [TS]

  which arm off stop your head don't [TS]

  overthink it which one do you feel the [TS]

  most energy or enthusiasm about the TV [TS]

  must be interested that's totally new [TS]

  yeah but the TV is the TV TV program to [TS]

  really do it would it's incredibly [TS]

  collaborative it would require a team of [TS]

  you have to really work with other ppl [TS]

  yeah five to 10 people and yeah and that [TS]

  is less of a challenge for me that it [TS]

  would have been a long time ago [TS]

  it's just the challenge is finding those [TS]

  five to 10 people and having them want [TS]

  to do it also would you be doing the [TS]

  music at your home [TS]

  we have to go to studio i think that uh [TS]

  the songwriting part I could [TS]

  do in my home who the recording it but [TS]

  that's the thing i don't think i could [TS]

  finish the album in two weeks but I [TS]

  could finish the songs and finishing the [TS]

  songs it would require a little bit of [TS]

  of brian eno rising myself if you know I [TS]

  would have to i would have to adopt some [TS]

  oblique strategies in this little stack [TS]

  of cards i would have to say good enough [TS]

  multiple times i would have to do a [TS]

  thing a week style thing or a thing add [TS]

  a style thing which is very hard for me [TS]

  to say good enough have some of these [TS]

  could be a little bit ambitious for that [TS]

  amount of time [TS]

  yeah well I mean the thing is I I'm not [TS]

  limited to two weeks i could extend that [TS]

  deadline to a month but at a month it [TS]

  seems far enough away that he was shot [TS]

  what if he shot to record whatever [TS]

  material you needed to produce the [TS]

  equivalent of an EP of low register [TS]

  piano songs [TS]

  ok so I'm just saying like you could [TS]

  record enough for an album then choose [TS]

  the whatever 325 best MVP [TS]

  well I don't know what you call it but [TS]

  the idea is the idea would be what if [TS]

  you what if you your goal was to have [TS]

  however much you write and record have [TS]

  325 finish things that you really like a [TS]

  lot got that seems pretty doable and you [TS]

  can do it right there with the piano [TS]

  that seems doable but since that seems [TS]

  eminently do I don't wanna I don't wanna [TS]

  you know scotch the democratic process I [TS]

  think the listener should be able to say [TS]

  you know what they think but you you [TS]

  know the the ambition [TS]

  you know you can use one right now you [TS]

  can use a win that's that's a good way [TS]

  of putting it [TS]

  yeah give yourself a whim put some [TS]

  points on the sports board put points up [TS]

  on the sports bored with by scoring some [TS]

  goals people like it when you play piano [TS]

  John you know you know i mean i'm a [TS]

  terrible piano player but that you have [TS]

  that good of a guitar player [TS]

  well that's true too but you know new [TS]

  songs kind of exciting it's a new thing [TS]

  see now that feels doable [TS]

  you know how to do all those things mean [TS]

  I'm just tossing it out I didn't show [TS]

  the other day with the with the Watkins [TS]

  family [TS]

  yeah i saw a photo of you it down i [TS]

  thought that i see was that photoshop [TS]

  wasn't really with you in Apple in the [TS]

  photograph guess being filled apple and [TS]

  the Watkins kids sarah & sean watkins [TS]

  who were that who were two-thirds of [TS]

  nickel creek [TS]

  Oh with the the bluegrass e country-ish [TS]

  yeah that's right because I enjoy them [TS]

  John [TS]

  yes they're very very good you're [TS]

  awfully good i've heard them on NPR and [TS]

  they're good they're extremely good and [TS]

  they're also extremely nice but they are [TS]

  they are extremely good in a way that is [TS]

  it's one of those things where you're [TS]

  sitting in a room and you're like these [TS]

  guys are my friends and they are [TS]

  musicians and i am a musician may have [TS]

  put out records and I put out records [TS]

  and we are of the same class and then [TS]

  Sarah pulls out her violin and Sean [TS]

  picks up his guitar an instrument that I [TS]

  also play and they say well we should [TS]

  learn a tuned for tonight's show [TS]

  uh why don't we do that song by the [TS]

  Carter Family somebody left my chicken [TS]

  up in the challah or whatever to the 344 [TS]

  that's right two three four and then he [TS]

  goes up reportedly panel about parent [TS]

  company seriously no no no your little [TS]

  bit and and I'm like holy shit they're [TS]

  really good musicians and then they'll [TS]

  then they'll get to the chorus and [TS]

  they'll do a thing and they'll stop and [TS]

  Sean will say I think instead of C sharp [TS]

  there you want to go all the way to the [TS]

  e and she's like really and the name [TS]

  they don't really count off they just [TS]

  launched back into it and she goes to [TS]

  the E and then they both get a really [TS]

  satisfied look on their face and then he [TS]

  says yeah because that then that makes [TS]

  it a seven and eight and then she says [TS]

  let's do it again and they do it again [TS]

  and she puts a little a little like [TS]

  thrill in there [TS]

  and then the second they do it again and [TS]

  then he catches the frill set the next [TS]

  time without they don't say that I could [TS]

  I could watch that all day and i'm [TS]

  sitting in a chair like and so they've [TS]

  got effectively AC chord in three [TS]

  different place exactly and then so then [TS]

  a girl walks in and she's in a she's in [TS]

  a really like a really nice dress [TS]

  she's a beautiful woman and all [TS]

  incidentally they're all very handsome [TS]

  I mean they're all very lovely looking [TS]

  people also and that she walks in and [TS]

  she's she's a she looks like somebody [TS]

  out of a dear friend looks like a woman [TS]

  out of a TV reenactment of the early [TS]

  days of the Ryman Auditorium like I'm a [TS]

  contemporary a contemporary TV show of [TS]

  like the fifties at the fifties in [TS]

  Nashville [TS]

  uh-huh so she's she's perfectly put [TS]

  together but also she looks modern just [TS]

  modern enough that you know that you're [TS]

  watching a reenactment [TS]

  and I think to myself oh here is a [TS]

  friend or hear that she's going to MC [TS]

  the show or maybe she's a vocalist but [TS]

  she pulls out a violin and they start [TS]

  the three of them playing and you [TS]

  realize that this woman is an incredibly [TS]

  good violinist also and they are now [TS]

  playing harm harmony with one another on [TS]

  the violin to fiddles and doing the same [TS]

  business of like they'll stop and one of [TS]

  them will say well why don't we just do [TS]

  that what we do the whole goddamn [TS]

  goddamn got you got you got caught with [TS]

  your pants down and I'm like what the [TS]

  fuck is that they're talking about now [TS]

  and then they all go a little lip dearly [TS]

  there and which apparently is Oh goddamn [TS]

  got caught with your pants down and i [TS]

  realized that i am not a musician at all [TS]

  right that they are musicians at a level [TS]

  where they they have they are speaking [TS]

  of common language that they understand [TS]

  and are able to [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  they're able to speak fluently and by [TS]

  comparison like my knowledge of my [TS]

  instrument and my knowledge of music as [TS]

  a language is is very much like spanish [TS]

  101 and I'm so pleased that whatever [TS]

  course my life has taken has delivered [TS]

  me into this backstage room to be apart [TS]

  to be just someone sitting in a chair [TS]

  while this goes on around me and knowing [TS]

  that this is their life they do this [TS]

  every night and they have this this this [TS]

  facility and so yeah right if I think [TS]

  too much about my piano my slope sad [TS]

  piano EP and realize that there is an [TS]

  aspect of it which will just be a primer [TS]

  on how badly [TS]

  John understands the piano right here [TS]

  that could be the title of it but i [TS]

  cannot be inhibited by that [TS]

  no I have to just say this is a document [TS]

  of my particular orbit around the sun [TS]

  which is which is not comparable to [TS]

  anyone elses and in my or my in my [TS]

  multiple orbits around the Sun this is [TS]

  what I've come up with [TS]

  here's how I figured out how to you know [TS]

  I found this box that has these white [TS]

  and black levers and even though there [TS]

  were people in books around that could [TS]

  explain how it works to me I ignored [TS]

  them and now I've this is what I came up [TS]

  with so that's the that that has to be [TS]

  my approach but like the experience of [TS]

  watching other musicians oh and so then [TS]

  I get on stage with them that night and [TS]

  play some songs and their band is those [TS]

  two and then Fiona Apple and then the [TS]

  drummer from lone justice what and the [TS]

  bass player from collective soul were [TS]

  collecting souls that would think so i [TS]

  don't have long justice [TS]

  me too mmm [TS]

  and uh and w Garza who I referred to [TS]

  earlier in this conversation playing the [TS]

  piano and the and the guitar and it's [TS]

  like their entire band is just awesome [TS]

  musicians who are like maybe was soul [TS]

  coughing I think maybe the bass player [TS]

  was from Soul Coughing wow yeah yeah [TS]

  they tell it was the baseball for [TS]

  copying our collective soul tight a [TS]

  tight group really tight group of really [TS]

  really really dynamite players who all [TS]

  were [TS]

  dynomite and playing music that just you [TS]

  know for effortless effortless [TS]

  effortlessly tumbles tumbles down like a [TS]

  waterfall [TS]

  it made me really glad actually because [TS]

  for whatever reason i was invited in and [TS]

  it feels much more like where I belong [TS]

  even even recognizing my my limitations [TS]

  oh well just get to state what seems [TS]

  obvious to me and I don't necessarily [TS]

  mean this is consolation but I mean you [TS]

  come out from a different point of view [TS]

  you had him in my mind you you know i [TS]

  don't know it's your not being too hard [TS]

  on yourself but you're being a little [TS]

  hard on yourself you expect me to come [TS]

  at it more as a singer-songwriter like [TS]

  you come out as somebody who you have [TS]

  learned guitar and piano in order to [TS]

  write and perform songs which is [TS]

  different it's different coming up and [TS]

  and you know spending years in music [TS]

  theory or a conservatory or something [TS]

  like that it's a different approach and [TS]

  I mean and to state the super obvious [TS]

  like one of your most beloved songs is [TS]

  one of the simplest songs like next to [TS]

  roadrunner or Louie Louie your most [TS]

  acclaimed song in some ways it is the [TS]

  the most basic 3-quart song ever written [TS]

  but you imbued it with so much heart [TS]

  that people can hear a three chord song [TS]

  in the two thousand and cry when United [TS]

  is gonna go faster miles an hour [TS]

  haha [TS]

  yeah that's what you do you should do [TS]

  you should do a bunch of jonathan [TS]

  richman covers with the radio that kind [TS]

  of the chewing gum wrapper [TS]

  hey no but I mean right i mean like in [TS]

  like a little kid could play commander [TS]

  thinks aloud and make people cry then I [TS]

  think there's nothing I mean I mean [TS]

  it'sit's not Lamb Lies Down on Broadway [TS]

  but it's not supposed to be but no [TS]

  anyway are you meant that anecdote was [TS]

  mostly a positive thought you were going [TS]

  in a different direction as a positive [TS]

  thing you like being around those people [TS]

  even though you maybe didn't feel quite [TS]

  up to muster in terms of like the [TS]

  chemistry they've got but i'm looking [TS]

  here at davydd Garza's page on the [TS]

  wikipedia and he works with nickel creek [TS]

  greatly Phillips few an apple he's in [TS]

  the largo crowd it sounds like it's all [TS]

  it's all very largo for sure but we know [TS]

  he's not that active jon brion man that [TS]

  can just be justjust place on whatever [TS]

  you just start playing anything and the [TS]

  and this is that that's the thing about [TS]

  this entire group they're all that style [TS]

  of musician you know i've i've spent [TS]

  plenty of Plenty years around people [TS]

  that you put any instrument in their [TS]

  hand and they go how does this work in [TS]

  the you know the first thing they start [TS]

  doing is tuning it which right away if [TS]

  you hand somebody an instrument that [TS]

  they've never seen before in the first [TS]

  thing they start doing is tuning it you [TS]

  know that you're in trouble [TS]

  this is called a Chapman Stick I think [TS]

  it's a little flange while and then they [TS]

  just start figuring it out and the music [TS]

  just pours out of it you're like oh [TS]

  right you it's not that you don't know [TS]

  how to play it it is just that but it [TS]

  kind of skill you think of is coming [TS]

  from jazz musicians in propositional [TS]

  jazz musicians but apply to you know the [TS]

  rockford acular well or that the the the [TS]

  Nashville door into rock and roll is [TS]

  such a different door you come through [TS]

  the Nashville door and you have all this [TS]

  knowledge that applies or that you [TS]

  learned initially in the really really [TS]

  tightly fenced-off world of Nashville [TS]

  songs where there are no surprises or or [TS]

  mountain songs you know hillbilly music [TS]

  write anything it's almost like blues [TS]

  where there's a pretty prescribed form [TS]

  and even when there's like a freak or [TS]

  you can pretty much guess what the freak [TS]

  or it's going to be you know what it's [TS]

  going to be [TS]

  and all we have to do is here once [TS]

  you're going to catch it the second time [TS]

  around here you know every song a lot of [TS]

  the hill songs they do have one surprise [TS]

  in them [TS]

  uh-huh but all you have to do is learn [TS]

  the surprise and the rest of it is you [TS]

  know is just a it's just a matrix but [TS]

  then you you come out of that room and [TS]

  you come out we come from that world and [TS]

  you walk through the door into rock and [TS]

  roll you still bring all that knowledge [TS]

  with you and the Rock and Roll isn't [TS]

  that different maybe the songs have two [TS]

  surprises but you know building at the [TS]

  the other way from from the direction i [TS]

  came which is like learning all the [TS]

  surprises or don't learn and learn [TS]

  nothing first of all that was my first [TS]

  rule but write your own surprises and [TS]

  see if you can make surprises that fool [TS]

  everybody and you know what i have done [TS]

  I've had a lot of success making [TS]

  surprises that fooled really good [TS]

  musicians but what I don't have is all [TS]

  that connective tissue knowledge that [TS]

  you know i mean if somebody played [TS]

  something for me it's all it all feels [TS]

  like a surprise to me [TS]

  uh-huh was just like wow I mean like us [TS]

  you know all that stuff that Jonathan [TS]

  Coulton knows about how courts fit [TS]

  together [TS]

  it all seems like magic to me just like [TS]

  to see and how you can combine like in a [TS]

  way that is not showy but the way he [TS]

  combines what's happening with the music [TS]

  what seems like a fairly simple music [TS]

  and then combining that with what seems [TS]

  like a fairly simple harmonies but being [TS]

  able to like bridge these little [TS]

  sections together pollen storm really [TS]

  good at that too i mean they have so [TS]

  much vocabulary that they can pull out [TS]

  and when they're performing with with [TS]

  the combination of you know musicality [TS]

  and the singing like that that's that's [TS]

  just watching that happen in front of [TS]

  you is just stirring and it comes from [TS]

  learning 10,000 covers i think in pollen [TS]

  storms case i'm jonathan the thing that [TS]

  people don't forget about John are the [TS]

  people think that people forget about [TS]

  Jonathan Coleman is that he majored in [TS]

  music at Yale so he learned it's like [TS]

  majoring in french at Yale you had [TS]

  better be able to speak French you find [TS]

  all those little worm holes between [TS]

  between keys and styles and things like [TS]

  that without having to do the math in [TS]

  your head [TS]

  you just kind of say old is this here [TS]

  and there's this there and you know like [TS]

  you say there's one twist one surprise [TS]

  and in the most rock songs but he finds [TS]

  a way to like and and with lyrics to [TS]

  with the lyrics and I don't know he's [TS]

  saying the guy's a total package [TS]

  yeah that's the thing you can't that's [TS]

  something you can't you can't teach [TS]

  can't teach that lyrics thing you would [TS]

  it kill you to be civil i think it's [TS]

  lying to myself all the time just always [TS]

  thinking Jonathan Coulton song is that [TS]

  right [TS]

  oh yeah I I there they're just the thing [TS]

  is his songs like they may be Giants why [TS]

  don't even say this girl looks like i'm [TS]

  just gonna say three syllables dr. worm [TS]

  is dr. worm the greatest songs of all [TS]

  time [TS]

  it's not even the greatest thing might [TS]

  be giants song of all time but once i [TS]

  hear dr. worm I will be singing it all [TS]

  the time for three grown-up days have [TS]

  turned on the TV is a real worm [TS]

  yeah that's right he thinks he's getting [TS]

  better on the drums but you can handle [TS]

  criticism [TS]

  yea verily my god [TS]

  oh this guy's would I wish those guys [TS]

  would share a little bit of what they [TS]

  have with me i don't know how they would [TS]

  go about doing that plan what you just [TS]

  described their love you know I mean we [TS]

  know you were both fans of things like [TS]

  the rock documentaries and behind the [TS]

  music and like I could just watch that [TS]

  stuff all day long but in that case [TS]

  that's a retrospective it's super [TS]

  interesting retrospective but in the [TS]

  case what you're describing like [TS]

  watching that happening in in real time [TS]

  in a room is it really is an overused [TS]

  word but it's a little bit magical it [TS]

  feels like there's something alchemical [TS]

  happening that nobody in the room can [TS]

  really exactly identified but when you [TS]

  watch your like what did you just do [TS]

  know how did how did all of that just [TS]

  come together and then you did two more [TS]

  things that came together you didn't [TS]

  have to talk about it it's just it's [TS]

  it's so amazing is you know anybody [TS]

  who's great at their job working with [TS]

  other people are great at their job like [TS]

  I could watch that stuff all day one [TS]

  yeah you know that's what it boils down [TS]

  to right this is again inspiring to you [TS]

  in the sense that this is me you maybe [TS]

  want to do more of this some music stuff [TS]

  well it is my it is the world that i [TS]

  have struggled [TS]

  within for a long time and running for [TS]

  office absolutely reminded me that [TS]

  whatever my struggles were in in [TS]

  figuring out how to solve my music [TS]

  problems those struggles from within [TS]

  from within a political campaign those [TS]

  struggles suddenly seemed like the [TS]

  funnest most awesome problems to have [TS]

  like a what what was your problem it was [TS]

  hard to write lyrics [TS]

  oh well why don't you think about that [TS]

  on your way to this meeting in a union [TS]

  hall where people are going to where [TS]

  people are going to be visibly not [TS]

  interested in your ideas and then then [TS]

  let's talk about how hard it is to to to [TS]

  finish lyrics that at least your fans [TS]

  are waiting for with bated breath [TS]

  it's if there's something thrilling and [TS]

  life-affirming about having challenges [TS]

  problems or however you want to phrase [TS]

  it to to have problems that you can [TS]

  understand and results that can matter i [TS]

  think what drives us crazy is to feel [TS]

  like we don't have power over the kind [TS]

  of work that we're doing and feel like [TS]

  even if it went flawlessly it still [TS]

  wouldn't matter and like as much as it [TS]

  seemed like maybe seems silly to be like [TS]

  a guy who writes lyrics rock songs but [TS]

  it's a problem you really can't [TS]

  understand it's a result that really can [TS]

  matter and it really is just up to you [TS]

  to do it which is a very very different [TS]

  kettle of fish than what you've had [TS]

  since april or whatever [TS]

  yeah well and and in particular like not [TS]

  taking for granted the fact that there [TS]

  are people who genuinely want the [TS]

  genuinely want what I what I'm trying to [TS]

  make [TS]

  and they're not yeah I don't have to [TS]

  convince them they are there waiting [TS]

  already for this thing and it is hard to [TS]

  do but that difficulty that the pain [TS]

  that the payoff is not it's no small [TS]

  thing to to finish a record and know [TS]

  that Matt Howie wants to hear it and [TS]

  he's not just he's not pretending that [TS]

  he wants to hear it [TS]

  uh-huh he you know he's he's been [TS]

  waiting for a long time and a lot of [TS]

  people have but you know that record [TS]

  still has to be good [TS]

  I'm not just gonna make some shitty [TS]

  record just to make those dorks happy [TS]

  yeah you're above that right uh-huh no [TS]

  it's the smart way to look at that [TS]

  fucking you gots listen [TS]

  yeah wait a little longer i'll have that [TS]

  feel that feel it takes a long time I [TS]

  gotta think about it get two weeks ago I [TS]

  1c [TS]