Roderick on the Line

Ep. 186: "Electric Papers"


  hello hi John [TS]

  I burlwood how's it going Oh fine I'm [TS]

  I'm just fighting a thing i'm fighting [TS]

  of an interior thing [TS]

  no now the this sometimes those are the [TS]

  most difficult things to fight [TS]

  mhm know you're getting ill well you [TS]

  know I haven't had been getting ill [TS]

  lately and I'm but I'm gonna stick with [TS]

  that you know I have a good friend that [TS]

  that the claims that she never get sick [TS]

  and and when I have personally witnessed [TS]

  her being sick she denies that she's [TS]

  sick and that's such a that such a flip [TS]

  from most people or I don't know from a [TS]

  lot of people who are always getting [TS]

  sick when they're not she never gets [TS]

  sick when she is and I've started to [TS]

  kind of adopt that mentality I'm not [TS]

  sick I don't get sick i'm actually [TS]

  pretty interested in that because I have [TS]

  met people like this and I it's hard to [TS]

  tell whether it works or not it's one of [TS]

  those things like you know scared the [TS]

  alligators away but enlightened I've met [TS]

  people who seem they're so fixed in [TS]

  their insistence that they aren't sick [TS]

  and don't get sick [TS]

  yeah that they sometimes seem to [TS]

  actually beat it back and I wonder if [TS]

  that works [TS]

  I wonder that when i'm talking about the [TS]

  corollary the corollary is we constantly [TS]

  think you're getting sick and you do get [TS]

  sick now I believe that can be a thing [TS]

  that happened that used to happen to me [TS]

  all the time remember when I would come [TS]

  on this program might be sick all the [TS]

  time used to be sick of it too [TS]

  I was sick all the time and now I'm [TS]

  chasing the alligator away is what is [TS]

  what we're basically saying so so that's [TS]

  happening i feel a SI feel some [TS]

  sensations which are not sickness [TS]

  sensations but we're just simply my body [TS]

  telling me that I'm alive and that [TS]

  foreign agents are lurking there lurking [TS]

  around the the the dark corners of the [TS]

  city of my lungs and nose and I'm not [TS]

  going to allow them i'm gonna it's [TS]

  basically going to be a a [TS]

  counter-insurgency on the part of my [TS]

  white [TS]

  it sells another other things that I [TS]

  don't understand [TS]

  so it's a counter insurgency against [TS]

  against the attack on your dark city [TS]

  that's right ok well who can talk about [TS]

  this in a while but there's always I [TS]

  think we're leaving [TS]

  I feel like we've left the door open to [TS]

  the idea that in first of all let's take [TS]

  it as read there's probably other stuff [TS]

  out there in the universe you know right [TS]

  there are some people who say well [TS]

  obviously there's nothing else out there [TS]

  in the universe are they already would [TS]

  be here I don't have the logical skills [TS]

  to say whether that makes any sense [TS]

  I think we can also probably agree that [TS]

  if there are people coming here they're [TS]

  people listen to me right people [TS]

  sure people right why this is a product [TS]

  being stop being so safety and central [TS]

  normative yeah yeah it's like Star Trek [TS]

  you know you like a regular person but [TS]

  they put some makeup on you i mean it's [TS]

  green it up in some weird here's exactly [TS]

  well I think we can agree that you would [TS]

  probably be the emissary that seems [TS]

  clear [TS]

  so what if it's not somebody in a shiny [TS]

  lemay cape and a green face [TS]

  what if what if you are being reached [TS]

  one of your dark city is being contacted [TS]

  by these very attackers that you now [TS]

  seek to repeal uh-huh so I'm saying what [TS]

  if i'm not saying you should do this you [TS]

  probably very busy right now but like [TS]

  what if you opened yourself to the idea [TS]

  that could be some kind of a beatific [TS]

  experience happening here that's not [TS]

  about illness it reads illness because [TS]

  you know you've never been an emissary [TS]

  as far as we know actually for what if [TS]

  they're they're out there they're [TS]

  knocking on the door they say junk we [TS]

  come in [TS]

  yeah sure they're saying this is how we [TS]

  make contact this is how we we want to [TS]

  commune with you and right now your body [TS]

  is having up you know some kind of [TS]

  fairly profound reaction but it's just [TS]

  that your body doesn't know how to [TS]

  interpret interstellar oh absolutely i [TS]

  mean if it was one of its norm of benign [TS]

  galactic toxoplasmosis where first they [TS]

  need to plant they need to plant some [TS]

  ideas lets you sit around those ideas [TS]

  for six weeks before they go to the next [TS]

  stage [TS]

  sure take a look at the star man to play [TS]

  with his ding-dong wrong song [TS]

  long and yet these lyrics work em and [TS]

  then I go on the floor show [TS]

  no I feel like that is that's why I [TS]

  almost that's maybe my favorite David [TS]

  Boies on [TS]

  yeah I'm i feel like it may be a star [TS]

  man playing with his ding-dong [TS]

  oh I'm what i want what i actually just [TS]

  look at the actual lyric for later on [TS]

  take a look at the Starman playing with [TS]

  his ding-dong [TS]

  oh man look at that ding dong Garland [TS]

  and then the perpendicular show so is [TS]

  there life in John mind and his nasal [TS]

  cavity [TS]

  I what I want is again I want two more [TS]

  attacks on our fathers have you been [TS]

  watching it [TS]

  no you know i watch i don't wanna watch [TS]

  the weird one [TS]

  oh yeah what's the I don't want to watch [TS]

  the weird one especially not the later [TS]

  weird was only seven hours long john at [TS]

  seven hours long and it and it involves [TS]

  a conspiracy to kill the pope and I [TS]

  don't want to hear it [TS]

  no no no no they don't include that one [TS]

  it's seven hours that right first two [TS]

  movies yeah but your flight I think the [TS]

  point [TS]

  oh yeah I don't want to see I don't [TS]

  wanna see robert de niro appear halfway [TS]

  through the film [TS]

  yea Lord the beginning of the film what [TS]

  am I trying to say i don't even [TS]

  understand it you know you're the first [TS]

  1i saw your first concern you don't want [TS]

  my coming on that bathroom with his dick [TS]

  in his hand [TS]

  that's right the first one I saw in 1977 [TS]

  or whatever they sat me down in front of [TS]

  the television the same way in fifth [TS]

  grade they handed me tale of two cities [TS]

  and said you're a smart kid [TS]

  here read tale of two cities it was like [TS]

  a ok and then and it was one of it was [TS]

  like it was like they was like a dare [TS]

  write it was like oh you're a smart kid [TS]

  here [TS]

  go for it read tale of two cities and i [TS]

  was like i'm sure i've never heard of [TS]

  the French Revolution but yes all right [TS]

  I can do this and I'd and I did it like [TS]

  like like you would say here could climb [TS]

  the climb this ladder did it was like [TS]

  eating your piece you did the whole [TS]

  thing i did the whole thing that I had [TS]

  and had no actual comprehension of what [TS]

  I was doing but when they asked me about [TS]

  i'm talking about the people in schools [TS]

  now [TS]

  yeah when they when they require that i [TS]

  read a book report about it because [TS]

  because they didn't because obviously I [TS]

  wasn't going to read watership down our [TS]

  with the rest of the class right and i [TS]

  read it already too sad [TS]

  so they were like oh you know here's it [TS]

  this is what we this is the Honors [TS]

  Program read moby-dick image of those [TS]

  things I just those things and then I [TS]

  was required to to report to them report [TS]

  to adults who who my I even at the time [TS]

  I thought had not read those books and I [TS]

  didn't know what I had read but I gave a [TS]

  good you know i gave a good game [TS]

  the problem was that that because it was [TS]

  a dare I couldn't say that I didn't get [TS]

  them because then the adults would be [TS]

  disappointed in me and then I wouldn't [TS]

  be a genius so what's the worst of times [TS]

  and the worst of times that's right you [TS]

  know he says he can't win you can't win [TS]

  against who wrote that [TS]

  yeah the dickens wrote Taylor two cities [TS]

  and then he also wrote Moby Dick [TS]

  it's a it's it all it all tells the same [TS]

  story but basically a white whale fights [TS]

  a revolution [TS]

  uh-huh against a like some kind of Sun [TS]

  King right that was later turned into [TS]

  the the plane name is Rob hmm that's [TS]

  right exactly what lame is rob and and [TS]

  then there are helicopters that come [TS]

  down and there's some kind of Vietnam [TS]

  and like allegory where he goes up a [TS]

  river so it's it's this little King goes [TS]

  up a river find a white whale yep [TS]

  battles with himself chasing for the [TS]

  rest of his life whales like you can [TS]

  never change and in any case the first [TS]

  time I saw the Godfather i was i was so [TS]

  I was saturday down in front of a [TS]

  television an enormous television that [TS]

  also had a record player in it and [TS]

  people said this is an important film [TS]

  and you need to watch it and then they [TS]

  left right they didn't want to watch it [TS]

  they went upstairs on that's right to [TS]

  tip you off [TS]

  yeah yeah and they're like this is for [TS]

  you now you are we are we are we are [TS]

  punching your card we are giving you an [TS]

  adult ID and it involves watching the [TS]

  godfather so i sat in front of it again [TS]

  on comprehending wanting to watch happy [TS]

  days [TS]

  wanting to be a normal kid forced to [TS]

  watch this in this long confusing [TS]

  slow-moving a film where they had edited [TS]

  out all the parts where people died for [TS]

  all the all the blood and guts huh so [TS]

  it's just what is this montage with the [TS]

  with the baptism of the baby and then [TS]

  people walking in and out of barbershops [TS]

  you know what's at emergency haircuts [TS]

  the tonka I don't get this at all man [TS]

  and i'm not going to use revolving doors [TS]

  anymore so I that's right i'm never [TS]

  gonna come down the steps of a federal [TS]

  courthouse every time I get to make it [TS]

  every time [TS]

  Oh somebody's writing a ticket I'm [TS]

  getting out of here get out so yeah so I [TS]

  was miserable and then later later on I [TS]

  I don't even remember how I reintroduce [TS]

  myself to it but maybe it was I get [TS]

  tired of middle-aged men making [TS]

  references i didn't understand [TS]

  yeah and you know now of course I've [TS]

  seen a 25 times also you know movies [TS]

  movies used to be shorter interesting i [TS]

  think the deer hunter disproves that [TS]

  well but before the nineteen seventies I [TS]

  mean oh I see what you're saying [TS]

  what did you know it's funny thing about [TS]

  this there's so much that comes washing [TS]

  over me now that I still love movies and [TS]

  have a kid and I like watching movies [TS]

  but like there's there's so much to [TS]

  think about where like and I actually [TS]

  like it was asking me about she's [TS]

  looking for maximum posters yesterday [TS]

  and saying what is the comics code [TS]

  how could she miss your excellent [TS]

  posters from have five of them here in [TS]

  the office and choosing what is the [TS]

  comics code she's seen this on old [TS]

  comics and I did the best I could with [TS]

  my meager understanding of it to say [TS]

  well you know there is this before i was [TS]

  born there was a controversy kind of [TS]

  built up out of almost nothing about how [TS]

  basically comic books were damaging kids [TS]

  I couldn't tell her all the things that [TS]

  you know they were worried about you [TS]

  know there's a sexy things but I said [TS]

  like for example you could have zombies [TS]

  in comic books anymore was one of the [TS]

  things there's some kind of this part of [TS]

  the comics code [TS]

  well there's this book that came out of [TS]

  the name is Casey there's a book that [TS]

  came out in the mid-fifties by this this [TS]

  demagogue who basically was saying the [TS]

  comics are destroying our children [TS]

  and.and mainly i think going after or [TS]

  sort of email there's a time when war [TS]

  comics and especially crime comics were [TS]

  popular but another huge onra was like [TS]

  the tales of the crypts at the ec comics [TS]

  those wonderful nomics about you know [TS]

  gory stuff you know I loved those those [TS]

  are fans those are those first of all [TS]

  they're beautiful they still stand the [TS]

  test of time they look fantastic but no [TS]

  comments code was a way of saying it was [TS]

  kind of like the PMRC in the eighties [TS]

  when they said look either you can let [TS]

  us do this and will just shut you down [TS]

  or you can find some way to placate us [TS]

  by uh you know patrolling yourselves and [TS]

  so there was this i'll try to find it [TS]

  send it to you later but there is this [TS]

  you know crazy listing stuff he just [TS]

  couldn't do in comics anymore including [TS]

  things like I want to say like [TS]

  challenging Authority they're worth over [TS]

  like you couldn't you couldn't do stuff [TS]

  like you couldn't I think you weren't [TS]

  allowed to insult heads of state and [TS]

  things like that there's all this crazy [TS]

  one of those like omnibus bills kind of [TS]

  things and it you know it's what make [TS]

  comics kind of lame for a while and it [TS]

  wasn't until the seventies that really [TS]

  got kind of brushed away [TS]

  do you remember anymore now that i think [TS]

  about that it seems like whenever a [TS]

  president or a you know exactly as you [TS]

  say a head of state or even that even [TS]

  like ahead of business showed up in a [TS]

  comic it was always it was always like [TS]

  sort of a weird hero that didn't that [TS]

  you wish would go away as fast as he [TS]

  could like hey its president reagan [TS]

  hello there Superman usually usually [TS]

  pretty clunky I think there's an [TS]

  Avengers with david letterman in it was [TS]

  pretty weird [TS]

  uh-huh under the Avengers but there was [TS]

  definitely kind of course famously [TS]

  captain america who was always punching [TS]

  Hitler in the face that was kinda cool i [TS]

  guess that would you could get a pass on [TS]

  punching her in the face I mean then [TS]

  Quentin Tarantino really really took [TS]

  that all the way he reinterpreted with [TS]

  that japanese girls with swords hear ya [TS]

  to ya cut off Hitler but but that my [TS]

  favorite got go ahead not only concern [TS]

  was that the bridge here is that there [TS]

  was a time where i guess it was believed [TS]

  that in certain kinds of media you had [TS]

  to create media that would be utterly in [TS]

  offensive to anyone including like that [TS]

  toddler this before the idea of like the [TS]

  rating system came along in movies and [TS]

  so you know there would be this you know [TS]

  double entendre and stuff like that but [TS]

  you could go to a movie theater and with [TS]

  your kid and see pretty much any movie [TS]

  it might not be interesting to that [TS]

  child but there would be nothing in it [TS]

  that was you know horrific that wasn't [TS]

  until whatever was a mini cowboy was the [TS]

  first x-rated famous x-rated film the [TS]

  the rating system came along I think in [TS]

  the late sixties and with similar [TS]

  concerns you know do you know do you [TS]

  know that my mom now that you're saying [TS]

  this my mom sent me down again right [TS]

  about the time of the right about the [TS]

  time they're forcing me to read [TS]

  moby-dick and watch the godfather this [TS]

  she said she was watching a film with me [TS]

  and she said that right there is a code [TS]

  for them having sex haha like leaned [TS]

  over and said that and I was like what [TS]

  what how what like she's on the floor or [TS]

  something i had missed it and it was was [TS]

  uh you know it was like for some from [TS]

  here to eternity movie where they they [TS]

  were kissing and then the camera turns [TS]

  away camera panned away and there was [TS]

  there were waves washing on the beach [TS]

  right or it was or you know that the [TS]

  camera panned away and it was a [TS]

  locomotive going into a tunnel or [TS]

  whatever it was and it was a man making [TS]

  a ring with his left hand and putting [TS]

  the forefinger from his right hand into [TS]

  it and out of it repeatedly and and I [TS]

  and as a you know as an eight-year-old I [TS]

  hadn't gotten it [TS]

  I thought that they were I thought that [TS]

  they liked each other very much our [TS]

  kissing and then it would then we were [TS]

  segue into another scene and my mom was [TS]

  like that's a code for having sex and I [TS]

  was embarrassed of course we're because [TS]

  whenever anybody talks about sex that [TS]

  was embarrassing yes but i was curious [TS]

  about it right like what is this what is [TS]

  this code it's a and so somehow we got [TS]

  into a conversation about and I think it [TS]

  was that she probably brought it up [TS]

  again and said look in movies when [TS]

  people are having sex they can't make an [TS]

  over reference to it so there are all [TS]

  these ways hear you're nine ten eleven [TS]

  at this point however i'd say 80 [TS]

  my hand and so then i was i was curious [TS]

  about every aspect of that but people [TS]

  having sex first of all and then you [TS]

  know what she's like they can't show [TS]

  tongue kissing you ever notice that they [TS]

  go in and they had their very [TS]

  passionately kissing but it's kind of [TS]

  like it's kind of like that seen a kind [TS]

  of like something from animal house [TS]

  where the guy puts his hand up over her [TS]

  mouth and starts passionately kissing [TS]

  the back of his hand [TS]

  yeah like the passionate kisses are are [TS]

  are still very chasing she chased and [TS]

  she she was like that's not how people [TS]

  actually kiss when they're about to make [TS]

  love that is fake be ready at this point [TS]

  yeah because that's that is in the [TS]

  movies and I'm like how do people [TS]

  actually kiss and she's like well they [TS]

  slobber all over each other their [TS]

  tongues and it's been there and snot is [TS]

  coming out of her nose it's really [TS]

  horrific i was like ok all right ok [TS]

  because you know my mom a my parents [TS]

  were married anymore and be uh they both [TS]

  kept their affection for their friends [TS]

  if you will completely out of public eye [TS]

  right if my mom was kissing someone and [TS]

  I walked in the room the kissing stopped [TS]

  and everyone you know everyone clasp [TS]

  their hands in their laps and said so [TS]

  anyway we're talking about Moby Dick [TS]

  uh-huh and so I never said I didn't [TS]

  really see it you know it was the [TS]

  seventies people were slobbering over [TS]

  each other big big ways but i didn't i [TS]

  didn't have a lot of first-hand exposure [TS]

  to it so it's like what are they but [TS]

  people do what now a train goes into a [TS]

  tunnel [TS]

  yeah i mean i understood that the the [TS]

  mathematics of sex but i think those [TS]

  codes really did a job on us it's like [TS]

  we never see dead bodies i mean the [TS]

  movies we do but we never see him in [TS]

  person right [TS]

  um yeah i've been at last few months I [TS]

  guess I've been really struggling with [TS]

  this with my kid because she [TS]

  Shh I wish she had a chance to to be [TS]

  interviewed about her understanding of [TS]

  these things i think i'll be extremely [TS]

  interesting very very different from the [TS]

  understanding of an eight-year-old in [TS]

  the 50 60 70 is a tease i bet it's [TS]

  different in every era with him i'm [TS]

  willing to conduct those interviews if [TS]

  you want to fund [TS]

  let's go on that yeah i would need me to [TS]

  get a grant from the robert wood johnson [TS]

  foundation to help out but you know but [TS]

  you know if you think about again think [TS]

  about in the eighties when or if I'm [TS]

  asking about the seventies think about [TS]

  how much that's basically all i do I you [TS]

  know I know but think about how much [TS]

  like straight-up murder was on TV oh [TS]

  yeah right there was a lot of Kodiak on [TS]

  Kojak Chicago bang you start thinking a [TS]

  lot about like all there was there so [TS]

  much just people getting killed on TV [TS]

  and so you know the conventional wisdom [TS]

  over the years became that you know [TS]

  Europeans thinks think it's so weird [TS]

  that we have so much murder on TV and so [TS]

  little like genuine like affectionate [TS]

  sex and the kind of vice versa so we get [TS]

  one of those British imports where [TS]

  there's no shooting booby since like you [TS]

  know you know how Britannia sure but no [TS]

  no never let the little bit let carry on [TS]

  Benny Hill but at the reason I say that [TS]

  is that i don't see too much here but [TS]

  you know my ear but for example like [TS]

  there are times when you need a bridge [TS]

  to explain something about what's going [TS]

  on in the past like we were the camera [TS]

  pans away and it shows us a train tunnel [TS]

  a man doing this at this finger [TS]

  no it's a picture of a bridge camera [TS]

  pans away and it's like oh this is this [TS]

  is a real segue it's actually a bridge [TS]

  the first time that's actually that's [TS]

  part of the movie honey of the first [TS]

  time I ever said this I already knew i [TS]

  was going down a path that I would have [TS]

  to walk back at some point but at the [TS]

  the term became kissing like okay so [TS]

  that's you know and that could be a way [TS]

  of explaining that one yeah here's what [TS]

  it means to be gay what it means to be [TS]

  gay is that you like kissing people that [TS]

  the same gender is you and like she's [TS]

  ridiculously open-minded about that like [TS]

  it's really cool like she thinks it's [TS]

  really weird that you're not allowed to [TS]

  do what you want with who you want but [TS]

  you know kissing so but at some point at [TS]

  some point soon [TS]

  that's going to start really breaking [TS]

  down as the way of explaining this this [TS]

  as a shorthand heuristic this whole [TS]

  class of things that are actually much [TS]

  beyond [TS]

  kissing mmm raise your leg yeah and so [TS]

  it will be watching something that's a [TS]

  little bit you know PG pg-13 and and it [TS]

  it really pushes the bounds of my [TS]

  analogy or my metonymy i guess for [TS]

  explaining what's happening so I'm not [TS]

  looking forward to the day where i am [TS]

  not worried so much about having to [TS]

  explain the actual real-world mechanics [TS]

  but like we're going to go rewatch a lot [TS]

  of things and go that really wasn't [TS]

  kissing one yeah i'm gonna start i'm [TS]

  gonna start referring to sex as beyond [TS]

  kissing and I think that that's gonna [TS]

  actually improve my life and a lot of [TS]

  ways just be like are you how are we [TS]

  ready [TS]

  I love you I'm when it's like looking at [TS]

  a pretty terrible time for the ratings [TS]

  the mpaa rating system at this point [TS]

  because she wasn't talking about movies [TS]

  anymore i was just talking about in my [TS]

  personal life although i think it's a [TS]

  terrific idea would you like to go [TS]

  beyond kissing with me or just hurt just [TS]

  yes you started kissing the back your [TS]

  hand like I show you what i'm doing is [TS]

  going back throughout my entire life and [TS]

  inserting beyond kissing into every [TS]

  instance where I've used the word sex [TS]

  and I i like my life better now [TS]

  mmm retro actively and i would love to [TS]

  have some beyond kissing with he that is [TS]

  how I'm going to remember my life I [TS]

  would like to go back for a second into [TS]

  this podcast and comment that the [TS]

  earlier just a few moments ago you and I [TS]

  both said you go ahead simultaneously [TS]

  yeah and I don't think that's ever [TS]

  happened before I think that was the [TS]

  first time it happened probably three [TS]

  times [TS]

  no no really you go ahead I don't want [TS]

  to interrupt your man interrupted by [TS]

  nature and I try not to do that on this [TS]

  show but i but I feel like I feel like [TS]

  it's the first time we both ever said [TS]

  you can get the same time you go ahead [TS]

  no you go ahead but we didn't but it was [TS]

  simultaneous yeah you go ahead we both [TS]

  one of the other two go ahead and he had [TS]

  jammed up in a revolving door if I [TS]

  actually all boy and somebody shot us [TS]

  both oh I still think about that every [TS]

  time I go through my daughter of course [TS]

  is a child she loves a revolving door [TS]

  I don't like going through a revolving [TS]

  door and wait for somebody to lock it up [TS]

  and then i will ichi you know give it to [TS]

  me this is but but you're screwing up [TS]

  the kind climate control and all these [TS]

  hotels and office buildings you open [TS]

  that side door and the whole climate of [TS]

  the building goes racing out like [TS]

  like ghostbusters yeah all its just 70 [TS]

  different climates all running out with [TS]

  hot dogs in their mouths and then you [TS]

  are you fucked it all up whereas if you [TS]

  go through the revolving door it's just [TS]

  one little climate little climate m.d do [TS]

  you use a revolving door that seems [TS]

  antithetical to a lot of your training [TS]

  yeah the only time i actually use the [TS]

  revolving doors if somebody's going [TS]

  through ahead of me that I know and then [TS]

  as the revolving doors halfway through I [TS]

  stick my foot in it and then it stops on [TS]

  the person slamming into the glass and [TS]

  it's one of my favorite bags and I do it [TS]

  all but I do it all the time and a lot [TS]

  of my friends know I'm gonna do it but [TS]

  then they forget because they get [TS]

  excited about going through a revolving [TS]

  shot everybody does their they see it [TS]

  coming and they're like here we go [TS]

  and then I gem my foot in it and make [TS]

  slam into the class and it just like i [TS]

  love it over and over and over that gag [TS]

  works [TS]

  do you renounce Satan and renown saying [TS]

  WOW phone a lot of the times I'll slam [TS]

  revolving door into them and then i'll [TS]

  go around and go into the [TS]

  going-to-the-sun happens or friends [TS]

  always a little surprise around every [TS]

  corner [TS]

  that's right that is the kind of see [TS]

  that's the kind of thing that's why [TS]

  people call me an asshole [TS]

  yeah but it doesn't really it's nothing [TS]

  about that is bad LOL still survive that [TS]

  they didn't do anything wrong it's no [TS]

  it's me it's on it's on me but it's also [TS]

  it's small and it's just putting a [TS]

  little bit of joy into everybody's life [TS]

  I think [TS]

  yeah that's so nice you do that yeah [TS]

  even the guy that's just like a [TS]

  Beefeater who's standing outside hailing [TS]

  cabs for you proof he uh he laughs too [TS]

  and we all laugh a scene at all who that [TS]

  guys seen it all anyway sorry interested [TS]

  he's he's he's he's working for her [TS]

  right next to a giant poster of himself [TS]

  imagine that he's getting his idea of [TS]

  getting dressed for work is so different [TS]

  than my idea of getting dressed for work [TS]

  better if we had the dresses beefeaters [TS]

  every day he's dressed like a [TS]

  revolutionary war a minute man and he's [TS]

  helping kevin costner into into a little [TS]

  bed-and-breakfast but he's going to [TS]

  remember he's going to remember his face [TS]

  and he's going to get walk around the [TS]

  Pentagon trying to see him and kevin [TS]

  costner is gonna be hiding [TS]

  bathrooms it's this is part of this part [TS]

  of the job huh yeah yeah ratings are [TS]

  complicated complicated stuff you know [TS]

  what's complicated [TS]

  who was that I hate the segway I hate to [TS]

  not stay also what I want to come back [TS]

  to i might be taking some point go ahead [TS]

  okay I hate to paint across the bridge [TS]

  who but uh I have two dongles now 102 [TS]

  dongles have two dogs i used to have I [TS]

  step one key if you recall once upon a [TS]

  time I had one key my life was simple [TS]

  yeah and then i had more keys and then [TS]

  more and then more and then i gotta donk [TS]

  all I didn't want a dongle screwed up my [TS]

  whole key ring [TS]

  I've got to Donal's this is the this is [TS]

  the direction we're going [TS]

  one have a ring dongles no keys a dongle [TS]

  dongle is it one of those it gives you a [TS]

  pass code to get into something kind of [TS]

  thing or is it like a giant car key [TS]

  no no well so there are some car keys [TS]

  like if you drive a nissan leaf or [TS]

  something you have a dongle in your [TS]

  pocket you don't have a small generator [TS]

  on it is that what it is i think there's [TS]

  many for the keys to be that big really [TS]

  you never have to put it in the car [TS]

  though you just sit in the car [TS]

  it knows you're there it knows your key [TS]

  is in the car and it starts the car ever [TS]

  uh-huh right that's the the this is the [TS]

  future [TS]

  yes it because the thing is even though [TS]

  after 40 years of computers for years of [TS]

  personal computers we act my mom said [TS]

  this to me the other day I know that [TS]

  she's becoming more and more a character [TS]

  on this podcast finally when she objects [TS]

  to it because she feels like i miss up [TS]

  miss representing her if I am is [TS]

  representing her it is only that I'm not [TS]

  describing how actually tough she is but [TS]

  I was sitting on the camera is [TS]

  impossibly tough that was reading some [TS]

  scientific american or something and she [TS]

  walks in and she says [TS]

  did you know the computers have not [TS]

  increased productivity one iota and I [TS]

  looked up and was like huh [TS]

  and she said it's true it takes did you [TS]

  know that the dough and she said it [TS]

  takes just as long to [TS]

  do everything now as it did in nineteen [TS]

  sixty-five the only thing the computers [TS]

  have done is increase productivity in [TS]

  things that are not important that only [TS]

  exists to be computer things and so [TS]

  there was no compare that we can't [TS]

  compare to how long it took in 1965 [TS]

  because we didn't have photoshop then [TS]

  but in terms of like paying your [TS]

  checkbook or some business practice she [TS]

  was like I was in I was in I was doing [TS]

  computers in business for 30 years and [TS]

  at no point along the way did it ever [TS]

  increase productivity one iota and it [TS]

  still hasn't and I was like uh and i was [TS]

  thinking and thinking about about [TS]

  processes and realizing that i could not [TS]

  refute what she said with anything and I [TS]

  was like who [TS]

  oh dear and she was like that she wasn't [TS]

  referring directly to my dongle which [TS]

  performs exactly what do you know the [TS]

  function of a key accepted except it's [TS]

  awkward it's more awkward than mickey [TS]

  and i'm so lost right now [TS]

  well what is the dongle do that is a key [TS]

  except instead of putting it in a lock [TS]

  you touch it to a pad and get a fob it's [TS]

  a fob that's right i'm sorry of a dongle [TS]

  and a father the same if one of their [TS]

  stance your hats if somebody can tell me [TS]

  that it was putting dongle and fob who [TS]

  first of all it will be someone who [TS]

  listens to the lobby i want to give a [TS]

  fob I think of Ellicott near-field [TS]

  communication kind of thing where it's [TS]

  like you know what it is it's like [TS]

  what's-his-name a detective yakamoto was [TS]

  his name [TS]

  oh yeah well let's let's just go let's [TS]

  just go on to tekmoto yakamoto doing his [TS]

  little disco dance to make the door open [TS]

  right that's right he reaches up touches [TS]

  it with his butt and some card in his [TS]

  wallet says you know but instead of just [TS]

  instead of maintaining his police like [TS]

  dignity and sticking a key into a into a [TS]

  keyhole 3-pointer with one with his ass [TS]

  that's right how about a WoW and you [TS]

  know yeah instead of putting it [TS]

  instead of a locomotive going into a [TS]

  train tunnel now we have some sort of [TS]

  like a all that jazz moment [TS]

  gato [TS]

  and and then we're walking past a [TS]

  recumbent bicycle yet and when they were [TS]

  come a bicycle is a classic example I'm [TS]

  not well and he's a map right now I'm so [TS]

  so what she was trying to tell me that [TS]

  that throughout her entire career and [TS]

  computers you know they would publish [TS]

  computer computer talk in magazines [TS]

  probably called computer talk where they [TS]

  would where they would editorialize and [TS]

  say still this 1979 or something still [TS]

  after all this investment in computers [TS]

  we have not improved productivity one [TS]

  bit [TS]

  or rather one iota and that was to all [TS]

  the way through 19 me because it me or [TS]

  is there a bit how many iotas can dance [TS]

  on the head of a pin [TS]

  how many iotas convenience inside of a [TS]

  police evidence he got six iotas in a [TS]

  moment but there's 12 moments in a bit [TS]

  uh-huh anything like 75 bits in a [TS]

  megabyte right it's like bass bass 1024 [TS]

  basically that and you know and then [TS]

  Robert's Rules of Order comes into [TS]

  effect but personal probably but I said [TS]

  to her if the these magazines were [TS]

  reporting this stuff a wide in the [TS]

  general population rebell or say what's [TS]

  going on with these things and she said [TS]

  at that time unlike now nobody read [TS]

  computer magazines except computer [TS]

  people and computer people at the time [TS]

  were unwilling to were unwilling to look [TS]

  critically at computers because it was [TS]

  there it was it was there happy place [TS]

  but we would read these things ago wow [TS]

  it hasn't improved productivity one bit [TS]

  well it certainly will begin to do so [TS]

  right now soon and then it never did and [TS]

  you know she's talking about what I like [TS]

  to talk about all the time which is that [TS]

  we built the Saturn five rocket using [TS]

  pipe benders and slide rules and we have [TS]

  yet to best you know we cheap we keep [TS]

  building rockets and keep exploding on [TS]

  the back of the aircraft carrier right [TS]

  is no like the slide rule argument or no [TS]

  not even well i don't know i wouldn't [TS]

  call the slide rule argument I would [TS]

  call it the balance your checkbook [TS]

  argument which is that at the end of the [TS]

  month you sit down with your [TS]

  check register and you balance it with a [TS]

  pen as opposed to booting up your check [TS]

  balancing software and looking at all [TS]

  the pie charts that generates but it [TS]

  takes the same amount of time and has [TS]

  the same effect on the counter [TS]

  mm ok that's ok alright well just offer [TS]

  this quote from Upton Sinclair that i'm [TS]

  always quoting I want to get it right [TS]

  it's difficult to get a man to [TS]

  understand something when his salary [TS]

  depends upon his not understanding it [TS]

  that's kind of what you're describing [TS]

  right are some ways if you're if you're [TS]

  a computer jockey you're not gonna look [TS]

  for instances where the computer stuff [TS]

  is is not the best way [TS]

  absolutely yeah i think that up but [TS]

  would you describe that as a counter or [TS]

  as a no I'm just I'm just doing that to [TS]

  kind of calm me down a little here's my [TS]

  counter like my counter is that it [TS]

  depends on what you talk about being [TS]

  productive about because the the massive [TS]

  change we see little changes in our life [TS]

  works as people who are on desktop and [TS]

  laptop in mobile computers the thing [TS]

  that's that's not in our face every day [TS]

  in that same way is that we are allowed [TS]

  to be productive or not productive about [TS]

  very different kinds of work because in [TS]

  a way i will very loosely described as [TS]

  behind-the-scenes there's a lot of stuff [TS]

  being done by machines and computers [TS]

  that are actually making things much [TS]

  more efficient I mean I got you [TS]

  something like agriculture agriculture [TS]

  like what you're able to do with [TS]

  agriculture is it you know at scale is [TS]

  so huge now that infrastructure has [TS]

  developed beyond like you know being [TS]

  able to just get things locally or [TS]

  whatever but but I feel like I mean [TS]

  certainly at the level of crunching [TS]

  numbers of like crunching prime numbers [TS]

  computers are doing them allowing us to [TS]

  do that in a much larger scale and that [TS]

  is producing something that that there [TS]

  are a lot of people are going to a lot [TS]

  of people are going to describe the [TS]

  tangible effect of that uh huh uh in [TS]

  terms of for instance like cryptologist [TS]

  but that encryption is all now newly [TS]

  necessary because computers almost [TS]

  creating new need for new technology [TS]

  that's right that the technology is [TS]

  fulfilling the need which is it's like [TS]

  my dad when I took his car away and he [TS]

  was like I need my car [TS]

  why he said to go to the mechanic yeah [TS]

  so a lot of that stuff is just like I [TS]

  think that mostly most of the [TS]

  agriculture productivity as a result of [TS]

  Monsanto count you know like gene [TS]

  manipulation and it's produced a [TS]

  monoculture so we have so it isn't [TS]

  actually an improvement it's just a it [TS]

  is a streamlining of a thing that we go [TS]

  but we didn't want [TS]

  well I think it's different if i could [TS]

  say i think it's different to argue [TS]

  whether it's an improvement [TS]

  rather than again the in the aggregate [TS]

  is all that make the world better i [TS]

  don't know what I'm trying to say is [TS]

  that like it seems like in the [TS]

  inexorable march of technology the thing [TS]

  that is fairly consistent is that as [TS]

  soon as it's less expensive and more [TS]

  reliable to have a machine do something [TS]

  the machine will do that which then [TS]

  necessarily change the nature of what an [TS]

  actual person does and so you can even [TS]

  look at the last 30 40 years and how [TS]

  there was a time when you need people [TS]

  who did things called word processing or [TS]

  data entry that was a kind of job and [TS]

  now there are machines that do that kind [TS]

  of stuff better faster more efficiently [TS]

  and less costly so even though that was [TS]

  considered a technology jobs 30 years [TS]

  ago [TS]

  it's not anymore because now that job is [TS]

  being done by the technology itself [TS]

  right necessarily changes what it is [TS]

  that we're doing on our computers [TS]

  yes it does but what what I'm saying is [TS]

  that that behind word processing behind [TS]

  the Machine taking over word processing [TS]

  rock processing those are just those are [TS]

  just ways of processing what Holt what [TS]

  we formerly did with the with [TS]

  typewriters on you know on what is that [TS]

  stuff called the where you type into a [TS]

  piece of black paper and it makes three [TS]

  copies of copies carbon copies [TS]

  oh yeah but ultimately all that [TS]

  technology including the typewriters in [TS]

  the carbon copies is meant to process [TS]

  your insurance claim you know like all [TS]

  of that is his ways of doing things [TS]

  which have which have more or less [TS]

  remained constant process your insurance [TS]

  claim to fill out your mortgage [TS]

  documents and that ultimately the the [TS]

  the end result the processing of the [TS]

  insurance the filling out the mortgage [TS]

  documents still takes as much time as it [TS]

  once did when it was done in longhand it [TS]

  just now involves a lot more people and [TS]

  a lot more process and a lot more layers [TS]

  of technology but the butt but the [TS]

  actual stuff that's getting done hasn't [TS]

  changed really [TS]

  uh-huh and takes just as long and I know [TS]

  that right now it the the real question [TS]

  is how many John Syracuse's are dancing [TS]

  on the head of a pin trying to refute [TS]

  this argument yelling at his TV screen [TS]

  huh but in but but i believe began and [TS]

  the ultimate proof in the of it is the [TS]

  fact that we have not know not only have [TS]

  we not reduce the 40-hour workweek to 20 [TS]

  hours but we have increased the 40-hour [TS]

  workweek to 60 hours and we have a lot [TS]

  more people working longer and we [TS]

  haven't we have not accomplished a a [TS]

  world in which machines are doing our [TS]

  work we've just added multiple multiple [TS]

  layers of you know of of action and it [TS]

  still takes I mean I don't know when the [TS]

  last time you filled out mortgage papers [TS]

  were Oh God in heaven i put it's like I [TS]

  feel like I feel like when you when you [TS]

  got a mortgage in 1920 it took less time [TS]

  huh [TS]

  so anyway that's just isn't getting what [TS]

  i'm gonna get so many angry letters [TS]

  well yeah you probably should pick up [TS]

  but I am I don't see your but we really [TS]

  kind of talking about quality of life in [TS]

  some ways [TS]

  well I'm talking about why why do we [TS]

  have computers and machines and what is [TS]

  their actual purpose and what we keep [TS]

  doing is applying them to things [TS]

  applying them to with the idea that we [TS]

  are streamlining our processes so that [TS]

  we can have all this extra free time to [TS]

  do to make carton and sit on the beach [TS]

  and the computers have yet to prove that [TS]

  they can do those things actually better [TS]

  i mean you can you can you can buy a [TS]

  home tax filling out computer program [TS]

  and you can input all your data [TS]

  to it and you can learn how to use it [TS]

  and herpa derpa derp but at the end of [TS]

  the day it takes just as long to do your [TS]

  taxes that as it did in nineteen fifty [TS]

  and so why have you put in [TS]

  why have you bothered ok alright um and [TS]

  and at the other end yes computers are [TS]

  processing prime numbers and and [TS]

  sequencing genomes and those do have an [TS]

  effect on science and they are pushing [TS]

  the envelope forward but and but we [TS]

  don't reserve computers just to do that [TS]

  work we we spend most of our energy and [TS]

  most of our time trying to apply [TS]

  computers to like newspaper layouts and [TS]

  doing it on the computer [TS]

  eat your your your bamboozled into [TS]

  thinking that it's easier and better and [TS]

  faster and and so forth but it actually [TS]

  just takes as much time as when we used [TS]

  to put stickam glue down on a on a crazy [TS]

  traffic and the end result is [TS]

  questionably better you know all the [TS]

  time we talked about kerning kerning [TS]

  kerning and you know and we used to do [TS]

  that by hand but it was it was better it [TS]

  was prettier and it was closer to the [TS]

  closer to the truth of really never been [TS]

  easier to email you about this [TS]

  ha ha ha technology has made it so easy [TS]

  for people to email you about they're [TS]

  going to i'm gonna get so many angry [TS]

  emails from people who are barely on the [TS]

  spectrum [TS]

  oh dear um ok so let me ask you this is [TS]

  there a time and era where you feel like [TS]

  it was in the sweet spot for like on the [TS]

  one hand it's nice that food doesn't [TS]

  make a sick anymore [TS]

  on the other hand we don't want devices [TS]

  in our house listening to us to create [TS]

  ads that are appropriate somewhere in [TS]

  between what you think this sweet spot [TS]

  was really think technology was put to [TS]

  good use but not too much good news i [TS]

  want to go back to the to your claim [TS]

  that food formerly made us sick and now [TS]

  computers have made it so that food [TS]

  doesn't make us it's not computers its [TS]

  technology this is the problem is that [TS]

  go in a world where we think all [TS]

  technology is about new apps the [TS]

  interest income [TS]

  the problem is that so much of the [TS]

  reporting about what we need [TS]

  alcohol technology is really about [TS]

  consumer-facing devices so it's easy to [TS]

  make a strong man about technology when [TS]

  you talk about samsung samsung having a [TS]

  refrigerator with a large screen on it [TS]

  like yeah okay yeah I get that silly but [TS]

  couple things is the first of all [TS]

  there's all kinds of Technology [TS]

  happening behind the scenes to make life [TS]

  easier and safe and reliable and less [TS]

  costly but then on the other hand i also [TS]

  i've learned to become reluctant about [TS]

  drawing too many conclusions about a [TS]

  feature that I can't understand where [TS]

  something that right now seems like an [TS]

  inconvenience or a silly thing to me [TS]

  within five years might be something [TS]

  that's that's a pretty big deal but I'm [TS]

  really you know glad is there [TS]

  yeah but i'm not talking about the [TS]

  future i'm talking about the now and [TS]

  that whatever with my marbles and now is [TS]

  the beginning of the future that's [TS]

  that's how it works well I know in my [TS]

  moms but my mom is saying that that has [TS]

  been the conversation since nineteen [TS]

  sixty-five that in five years were going [TS]

  to have a paperless office in five years [TS]

  you're not going to have to do your [TS]

  taxes in five years were going to be [TS]

  able to you know she said the amazing [TS]

  thing was in 1965 they said in five [TS]

  years there won't be computer [TS]

  programmers because all that will be [TS]

  automated right and then in nineteen [TS]

  seventy they said in five years there [TS]

  won't be computer programmers and [TS]

  they've been saying that every five [TS]

  years for the last 40 years and now we [TS]

  have more computer programmers than ever [TS]

  and there's more things to program about [TS]

  right which is a lot of how to do your [TS]

  tax software but i but i want to know [TS]

  that's not accurate and I want to know [TS]

  exactly how computers have made food [TS]

  safer on or how technology Nazi i iu and [TS]

  i i am not prepared to debate this [TS]

  because i haven't had time to prepare [TS]

  for this but i'm trying to think of [TS]

  things I think of things like along the [TS]

  lines of maybe having to do with with [TS]

  things like being able to do quality [TS]

  control on various kinds of foods or I'm [TS]

  thinking about things like being able to [TS]

  track epidemiology being able to track [TS]

  things like diseases that go around you [TS]

  know all the way down to like people in [TS]

  Africa being able to have the beginnings [TS]

  of trade based on SMS and things like [TS]

  that there's all kinds of ways in which [TS]

  technology gets used in a novel way in a [TS]

  small way or in a scalable way in a big [TS]

  way that end up improving our life and [TS]

  the thing is I think the fallacies to [TS]

  think that any given new technology is [TS]

  going to fix the world [TS]

  it's not it's just going to be the next [TS]

  technology that we didn't make a [TS]

  decision what to do with which I guess [TS]

  I'm saying for the last 40 years we have [TS]

  been tracking that and then any kind of [TS]

  like I think the food safety stuff that [TS]

  you're saying the computers have made it [TS]

  much easier to import strawberries from [TS]

  New Zealand which is a thing that [TS]

  computers made it necessary to do in a [TS]

  way you know like with or like computers [TS]

  invented into importing strawberries [TS]

  from New Zealand in away let's just say [TS]

  technology did yeah we now have the [TS]

  technology to have strawberries all year [TS]

  round and that's the that's kind of the [TS]

  amazing thing we didn't use to have [TS]

  strawberries all year round [TS]

  now we do and and that is I guess the i [TS]

  guess the the thing that I notice that's [TS]

  that actually is an improvement right [TS]

  there was a time when you go to the [TS]

  grocery store in the winter and all i [TS]

  had was root vegetables and [TS]

  chocolate-covered grasshoppers [TS]

  uh-huh except the grasshoppers want [TS]

  chocolate covered but now we have them [TS]

  and those things have created a whole [TS]

  new host of problems and you know and so [TS]

  now we have to use technology to to [TS]

  facilitate these processes processes [TS]

  that you know that it's like we created [TS]

  problems and now our man now are solving [TS]

  my guess that is the march of technology [TS]

  especially if you take technology to [TS]

  mean again and that where technology is [TS]

  uh can be kind of thorny you and [TS]

  introduce technology into this [TS]

  conversation i was saying computers and [TS]

  final challenge the computers [TS]

  oh ok alright fair enough yeah cuz I [TS]

  mean like it is a better plow because [TS]

  I'm to understand what you're saying [TS]

  it's happened not just sound like an old [TS]

  man thing is but it sounds like you're [TS]

  saying that we will you tell me but it [TS]

  sounds like you're saying that what [TS]

  widespread availability of computing [TS]

  means is just the need for more [TS]

  computing well no I'm saying show me [TS]

  where quality of life has improved in [TS]

  the last 50 years that where you can [TS]

  directly tie it to him [TS]

  movements and technology rather like [TS]

  every time I do that though you didn't [TS]

  turn that into a thing where you're just [TS]

  to show how that's really about [TS]

  computers but i think there are there [TS]

  are no I mean that's what that's what it [TS]

  seems like I mean I i don't i don't know [TS]

  i don't i guess I guess what I'm trying [TS]

  to figure out is like when was there a [TS]

  time when this was ever any different [TS]

  well if it's not sure I fully understand [TS]

  what your point is if i do though it's [TS]

  it's that there's something has changed [TS]

  in the last 40 50 years i guess i would [TS]

  say at the turn of the at the turn of [TS]

  the 18th to the 19th century we had an [TS]

  explosion of technology that where we [TS]

  have the electric light bulb we had the [TS]

  look you know certainly we already have [TS]

  the locomotive but we have the motorcar [TS]

  we have the airplane and so throughout [TS]

  the throughout the 18th century [TS]

  developed the steam engine ships no [TS]

  longer had sales and that was a [TS]

  fantastic march of progress you know my [TS]

  mom remembers the first time she saw [TS]

  tractor food because before that they [TS]

  were plowing with horses [TS]

  really that was like in her lifetime it [TS]

  well i'm getting even where she lived [TS]

  there were already lots of tractors but [TS]

  but it that you know they weren't they [TS]

  were expensive and so they were plowing [TS]

  her 40 acres with horses and then they [TS]

  got a tractor and a combine or combine [TS]

  attachment to a tractor but still the [TS]

  the cart where the grain was going was [TS]

  pulled by horses and that was pulled by [TS]

  horses into the late forties so those [TS]

  are real real like technologies that [TS]

  that changed everybody's life but but we [TS]

  are looking at the last 40 years and i [TS]

  think the other the actual way we're [TS]

  living in 2015 2016 compared to how we [TS]

  were living in 1966 hasn't really [TS]

  changed where basically flying the same [TS]

  airplanes we are driving the same cars [TS]

  for all intensive purposes and filling [TS]

  out our taxes and voting and and we have [TS]

  not and we like to think that this has [TS]

  been a comparable revolution [TS]

  but a lot more of it is just spinning [TS]

  our wheels like with like because in [TS]

  1966 the perception of where we would be [TS]

  in 2016 was just as you're saying like [TS]

  wow five years from now it's the future [TS]

  and a lot of the things that hg wells [TS]

  talked about actually came true [TS]

  the the physical like new technology [TS]

  actually was became real and was [TS]

  astonishing and from 1966 to the present [TS]

  we haven't things are very different [TS]

  we're doing very different things people [TS]

  aren't sitting in and and typing on [TS]

  carbon copy they are moving stuff around [TS]

  with a mouse but the output is still you [TS]

  know that the the newspaper on the on [TS]

  the TV isn't actually much of a it's [TS]

  it's not a major change relative to it [TS]

  to a newspaper we still read newspapers [TS]

  not all right but uh but you know the [TS]

  information contained in it is more or [TS]

  less identical and I think that is [TS]

  consumer-facing stuff that i guess i'm [TS]

  thinking more about things that I don't [TS]

  understand infrastructure where I guess [TS]

  I might get would be that there are [TS]

  things in the infrastructure that [TS]

  technology is making things better and [TS]

  safer [TS]

  poop poop moves down tubes who and [TS]

  before poop was moving down tubes and [TS]

  and guys in overalls were like well i [TS]

  think probably we got a clogged up there [TS]

  at the head headwaters and then they go [TS]

  up with shovels in a steam engine and [TS]

  dig it out but now we've got somebody [TS]

  sitting in a dark room looking at a [TS]

  thousand different poop lines and saying [TS]

  like yep the poop is clogged up at the [TS]

  headwaters and it's it is now [TS]

  computerized and it is it is better [TS]

  right but not as dramatically as we as [TS]

  we think not as we have but I don't the [TS]

  poop still goes down to ya but part of [TS]

  that is also that's just the nature of I [TS]

  feel like that's part of that is just [TS]

  the nature of [TS]

  how changing technology works where [TS]

  except in 90 in the early nineteen [TS]

  hundreds poop went from being buried in [TS]

  pitts to going down tubes that was the [TS]

  english thrown out a window or being [TS]

  thrown out of a window which is why the [TS]

  man walked on the edge of the sidewalk [TS]

  and through his coat down into the [TS]

  puddle [TS]

  yes so that was the that was the major [TS]

  advance now now we have a sewer but [TS]

  computerizing the the process of poop [TS]

  going down tubes hasn't really changed [TS]

  at changed it [TS]

  it's still a 19th century technology [TS]

  just has sensors in it now [TS]

  hmm so I I don't you know I don't want [TS]

  to like go down a list of a thousand [TS]

  examples and you have thousands of my [TS]

  challenge with this is that is that I [TS]

  don't know enough about actual [TS]

  technology to be able to describe these [TS]

  things except by analogy whereas I I [TS]

  could join you [TS]

  pretty easily in finding things that are [TS]

  exceptions or problems from these [TS]

  technologies that don't require [TS]

  technical background i just i I'm a bad [TS]

  person argue about this with because I [TS]

  just don't know enough about how it [TS]

  actually works but again I bet they were [TS]

  you know there are certain there's [TS]

  enough anecdotes about saying well now [TS]

  trains are going too fast and pregnant [TS]

  women shouldn't write on them which is [TS]

  not true but that's the kind of thing [TS]

  that they would say you could say yeah [TS]

  we made these we made these plans but [TS]

  you know hey you know those first planes [TS]

  that they sent into war were not that [TS]

  reliable and they're used to kill people [TS]

  so she's not making planes [TS]

  it's just that you know for every [TS]

  example there's something that we [TS]

  learned and maybe at this point maybe [TS]

  I'm just being a little bit [TS]

  was that English guy yeah I mean I'm not [TS]

  saying that we should stop because I I [TS]

  feel like that I feel like we've talked [TS]

  about this quite a bit [TS]

  we are on the cusp of a big revolution [TS]

  like when when self-driving cars and I [TS]

  hate to keep bringing them up but so I [TS]

  not really thats not driving i think [TS]

  it's i think it's fascinating personally [TS]

  I couldn't care less a year ago and now [TS]

  i'm really interested [TS]

  yeah when those are happening that will [TS]

  be the thing that I go there [TS]

  there it is that is an absolutely new [TS]

  thing that could not be accomplished [TS]

  without computers it is a major advance [TS]

  and it changes everyone's life dramatic [TS]

  right that will be the first sign that i [TS]

  have seen that the computer revolution [TS]

  of the late 20th century the last 50 [TS]

  years of gearing up and getting [TS]

  everybody so that they understand this [TS]

  and increasing processing power to be [TS]

  able to revolutionize transportation in [TS]

  that way I'll go yes absolutely but you [TS]

  know the the the jet airplane was [TS]

  invented in the forties and by the [TS]

  fifties we had a 707 that was you know [TS]

  and what we've done in making the 787 is [TS]

  make that much incremental e more [TS]

  efficient but still it's essentially the [TS]

  same thing and and everyone at you know [TS]

  like in the nineteen fifties office we [TS]

  were accomplishing a tremendous amount [TS]

  of paper pushing and we are still [TS]

  pushing those papers now they just [TS]

  they're just electric papers but like [TS]

  yeah we're pushing electric papers but [TS]

  now now with with the with these systems [TS]

  coming online that's going to be [TS]

  tremendous and I feel like you know [TS]

  twitter is kind of a kind of a like a [TS]

  glimpse of the future but it is but you [TS]

  know it's like it is it is something new [TS]

  right something that didn't exist before [TS]

  that's that gives a glimpse of what what [TS]

  society how society is going to be [TS]

  different but but I but I'm just saying [TS]

  that I feel like the last 40 years has [TS]

  just been just been changing the tools [TS]

  and and maybe it's equivalent to the [TS]

  years between 1830 and 1880 where you [TS]

  know we're building these creaky weird [TS]

  little railroads and and steam engines [TS]

  whir whir increasing productivity and [TS]

  and creating cities but it wasn't clear [TS]

  what that was going to be like and then [TS]

  all of a sudden in 1880 there was an [TS]

  explosion of that technology and we also [TS]

  had cities now [TS]

  that were like a long-term product of [TS]

  the steam engine but it wasn't clear [TS]

  what those were going to be so now we [TS]

  had cities we have to solve city [TS]

  problems the steam engine was great for [TS]

  that but then it did you know it did [TS]

  change our lives or the internal [TS]

  combustion engine you know changed our [TS]

  lives and that's about to happen and I'm [TS]

  excited about it is what it is what [TS]

  technology is is enabling us to do and [TS]

  and now we're going to see what it is [TS]

  but like up to [TS]

  we've been in a train our whole lives [TS]

  we've been in this kind of interesting [TS]

  item where it's you know where we've [TS]

  kind of just been we've been taking all [TS]

  those boxes of legal papers up in the [TS]

  attic and we've been in putting them [TS]

  into the machines and and you know and [TS]

  we're on the cusp i guess but what my [TS]

  mom was saying was it was kind of proof [TS]

  of that which is that we've been putting [TS]

  everything into computers all this time [TS]

  and it really hasn't increased [TS]

  productivity one [TS]

  say it with me eyota MN not even not [TS]

  even a partial bit not even an iota [TS]

  which is very small amount of iota right [TS]

  because it's iotas all the way down [TS]

  uh-huh anyway a right to me at John [TS]

  rajan dot Roderick and dot com [TS]

  oh dear and send me all the all of the [TS]

  ways in which that what I've just what [TS]

  I've just said is not true [TS]

  mm-hmm mean we're talking about [TS]

  billionaires no long [TS]

  Wow [TS]

  uh I wanted to like Moby Dick I found [TS]

  moby-dick impenetrable as a [TS]

  eight-year-old and so I thought when I [TS]

  was a twenty-year-old that I would read [TS]

  it again and understand it and you know [TS]

  I'm an enormous melville fan above the [TS]

  other hand of his works well I had to [TS]

  read it in college and I had a class [TS]

  called American masterworks one semester [TS]

  and we read Absalom Absalom Moby Dick [TS]

  and the ambassadors and I liked Absalom [TS]

  Absalom alive but maybe not so much the [TS]

  others but I got through me because I [TS]

  kept telling myself it was postmodern [TS]

  that like it's up there with the [TS]

  electric Chandi it's like one of the [TS]

  original post modern books what I kept [TS]

  telling myself even though I never [TS]

  completely understood that phrase meant [TS]

  and it didn't actually helped make the [TS]

  book that much more interesting [TS]

  mhm I i preferred joseph conrad in every [TS]

  in every respect but yeah I didn't and [TS]

  you know I read tale of two cities again [TS]

  and I didn't like it either but [TS]

  obviously the worst of all those books [TS]

  is Billy Budd Billy but it's herman [TS]

  melville to write in billyburg silly but [TS]

  that's all that's another one is on a [TS]

  ship right yeah unreadable unreadable I [TS]

  you know here's the thing is that i was [TS]

  i was a good reader i was a big reader i [TS]

  read a lot but it but there was a thing [TS]

  that happened you can think about stuff [TS]

  I classics Illustrated there was [TS]

  definitely like a push in the sixties [TS]

  and seventies to get kids to want to [TS]

  read real books because it wasn't enough [TS]

  obviously you should never read a comic [TS]

  book that's gonna write your mind you [TS]

  know you don't get only read so much [TS]

  Henry Huggins before you become a [TS]

  Dollard encyclopedia brown sure you know [TS]

  you how you gonna get really smart [TS]

  unless you read these big thick European [TS]

  books well with Henry Huggins oh Henry [TS]

  Huggins that boy you know with Ramona [TS]

  Quimby and his dog ritzy there was very [TS]

  readable Judy solve crimes that per se [TS]

  not per se it's just you're pretty much [TS]

  straightforward kind of kids book you [TS]

  know for like their fourth grader like [TS]

  encyclopedia brown or that love [TS]

  encyclopedia my daughter and I we had [TS]

  enough encyclopedia brown face now the [TS]

  problem cyclopedia brown you get any [TS]

  collection encyclopedia brown stories [TS]

  and a couple of them are really really [TS]

  good [TS]

  we're like I didn't see that coming or [TS]

  that was really smart I've read some of [TS]

  my daughter couple times we read through [TS]

  we try to look for the clue [TS]

  there's usually a couple of those in [TS]

  every collection that are actually [TS]

  really good detective stories and the [TS]

  rest are terrible and they're not [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  the one some of them are terrible [TS]

  because they're obvious ones that are [TS]

  really terrible are where the the the [TS]

  trick just doesn't make any sense [TS]

  there was one there was one that was [TS]

  about how could you tell that like he [TS]

  didn't actually lose this karate fight [TS]

  it's because he filled felt backwards [TS]

  instead of forwards and stuff like that [TS]

  one that was a good trick [TS]

  now the guy who who put his kid on the [TS]

  hood of the car that sure the hood [TS]

  should have still been hot because they [TS]

  supposedly been driving all day [TS]

  that's right in the pocket for [TS]

  encyclopedia around well met some [TS]

  sherlock holmes stuff out there was a [TS]

  lonely [TS]

  yeah absolutely but you know it's also [TS]

  part of it was though that and I was I [TS]

  was eight I may not a victim of this but [TS]

  I was subject to this was hey let's make [TS]

  these but you know me you know it's so [TS]

  great whenever the grown-ups want to [TS]

  make stuff palatable to kids which they [TS]

  really mean it's like it's like tricking [TS]

  your dog into eating pill by put in [TS]

  peanut butter like that you know after [TS]

  the dogs eat until it's gonna go you [TS]

  just totally fucking tripping so like I [TS]

  remember I had a couple small collection [TS]

  of like inexpensive hardback books of [TS]

  the classics but they had like fun [TS]

  covers but it was still a tale of two [TS]

  cities inside yeah yeah I remember that [TS]

  like where you try and make it more like [TS]

  fun and update the covers and make it a [TS]

  little hip and like it's still like i [TS]

  never got past the first couple pages of [TS]

  the tale of two cities did you ever see [TS]

  the extreme-teen Bible now I don't think [TS]

  I know about this [TS]

  yeah Shawn Nelson found one of these [TS]

  one-time the extreme teen bible and it [TS]

  was the Bible updated for teens but not [TS]

  just team all come on Xtreme team no [TS]

  fears no regrets [TS]

  that's right and so it had like a [TS]

  certain I mean had been streamlined so [TS]

  that all the King James talk was taken [TS]

  out of it and it was just like Jesus was [TS]

  a righteous dude he made the fishes turn [TS]

  into a mermaid the old shoe leopard [TS]

  weather turning officials or whatever [TS]

  yeah sure whatever he did [TS]

  and something Matthew yeah like jumping [TS]

  up and down and he said this and then [TS]

  everybody was like not that he was like [TS]

  yeah he ripped off an extreme holly [TS]

  threat any that's right he carved a [TS]

  major fucking boner word and then you [TS]

  know certain passages were in were in [TS]

  red and then on the side there were [TS]

  sidebars was like did you know that [TS]

  Jesus never took any shit off nobody who [TS]

  ya [TS]

  oh and it was it was fantastic we had [TS]

  lots of fun with the extreme teen bible [TS]

  and i think we may have read it aloud up [TS]

  from stage on a particular time let me [TS]

  ask the obvious question here so this [TS]

  was not just a different cover on like a [TS]

  new standard translation they they did [TS]

  their that was rewritten in extreme teen [TS]

  ease really sure they still have on [TS]

  chapters and verses or was it more like [TS]

  stories [TS]

  mmm more like well you know they had [TS]

  chapters and verses in that they pulled [TS]

  out chapters and verses so that you can [TS]

  memorize the numbers so that you could [TS]

  use those to defeat other people in [TS]

  arguments at that's key so you can just [TS]

  be like john three sixteen what do you [TS]

  say to that bra [TS]

  mmm [TS]

  mmm [TS]

  and so they absolutely did that you know [TS]

  there are a lot of those sort of quotes [TS]

  that are just like if you if if you're [TS]

  in an argument with somebody who just [TS]

  dropped john three sixteen on them and [TS]

  then they just better shut up [TS]

  that means a Stone Cold Steve Austin's [TS]

  gonna kick your ass that's right that's [TS]

  right [TS]

  not as extreme teen bible delivers just [TS]

  what teams are looking for real answers [TS]

  to life's tough questions all the [TS]

  innovative study helps our gear to the [TS]

  teen culture haha of that they are 15 [TS]

  culture all the innovative study helps [TS]

  ya wasn't are you going at Nelson's [TS]

  extreme teen bible at written by Thomas [TS]

  Nelson not having probably no relation [TS]

  that may be why Shawn Nelson was first [TS]

  turned on the extreme teen bible he was [TS]

  probably this was before search engine [TS]

  sure so he would have been in the [TS]

  bookstore looking at all the books that [TS]

  have been written by people named Nelson [TS]

  and and discovered it [TS]

  I mean it's just a guess seems like a [TS]

  weird coincidence [TS]

  oh gosh there's the official [TS]

  reviewer extreme teen bible dares teams [TS]

  to crack open its pages and live up to [TS]

  the cutting-edge standard found inside [TS]

  can you fucking do it can you do it can [TS]

  you crack it open you can be a chicken [TS]

  bock bock bock exactly you dare crack [TS]

  this open this New King James [TS]

  translation o bad idea thoroughly [TS]

  explained in teen for a black which up [TS]

  always gonna be totally grunting fuck i [TS]

  feel like this is how mark driscoll got [TS]

  his start right the the famous Seattle [TS]

  minister with tattoos who's like dude [TS]

  brah my wife is smoking hot to the max [TS]

  and i like to fuck and do it with her [TS]

  over and over because that's the [TS]

  Christian Way and you could submit you [TS]

  know your wife needs to submit to you [TS]

  it's like a SNM ministry with a lot of [TS]

  rock and roll it had that's that's that [TS]

  founded in the concept of like your wife [TS]

  serves you [TS]

  that's that you know that's that's what [TS]

  that's what the extreme-teen [TS]

  bible-toting and then I love that idea [TS]

  yeah they're seriously his congregation [TS]

  had like 10,000 members and they all [TS]

  were like what's up probably about [TS]

  nipple piercings or whatever [TS]

  and you know and then it turned out that [TS]

  he was just can you believe it he was he [TS]

  was a little corrupt and contemptible no [TS]

  fears no regrets just a future with a [TS]

  promise of future with a problem feature [TS]

  the promised future with oh I get it I [TS]

  get the promises i get the few promising [TS]

  technology John it led to get GMO foods [TS]

  into your grocery store by email [TS]

  see this is a this is an incredible [TS]

  technology of your 0 [TS]

  uh-huh you don't have to die you go up [TS]

  into space like that that's really the [TS]

  first space travel is your soul going [TS]

  into space its city we kid but this does [TS]

  stuff from that same problem which is [TS]

  that you know we try you know when [TS]

  you're trying to like guide a kid to [TS]

  something you know is good useful [TS]

  timeless like even cool like it's so you [TS]

  can't help it sound like you're like an [TS]

  old man with a beetle wig when you're [TS]

  when you're trying to explain this stuff [TS]

  haha you're my usual check out a check [TS]

  out Johnny Tremain this is really should [TS]

  see what happens this kit all boy is he [TS]

  ever overcome disability in the most [TS]

  extreme way haha you know our listeners [TS]

  may remember brother Gabe the Dominican [TS]

  monk who was a regular listener to our [TS]

  program and maybe the reason portland [TS]

  now that's right many of them don't [TS]

  realize that brother Cape has become [TS]

  father cape in within within that the [TS]

  scope of our podcasts got from a bird to [TS]

  a fur that's right now is a fur gay but [TS]

  he gave his own parish I think they did [TS]

  or maybe there's one group one priest [TS]

  with a greater beard that's up up the [TS]

  chain formation at a bar is in his robes [TS]

  as always tricking appear don't know how [TS]

  this guy gets so much dough but he's i'm [TS]

  in a bar importantly totally give me a [TS]

  church here only given much a whole [TS]

  church was not open anymore he they gave [TS]

  him that he got an upgrade is not an [TS]

  Oakland anymore he's extreme no fingers [TS]

  no regrets [TS]

  so he's gonna be you carry these beads I [TS]

  didn't think so he's probably gonna have [TS]

  a lot to say about the extremity haha [TS]

  the extremity of our Lord [TS]

  yea though i think the Bible he uses is [TS]

  still hand illustrated and in Latin he [TS]

  does a real-time translation into a [TS]

  wish we could get a computer for that [TS]

  see I you know I do that all the time [TS]

  when people when people write me in [TS]

  foreign languages i just go on the [TS]

  computer and writing back and that is a [TS]

  major that is a major change i will say [TS]

  that that's like oh yeah I'm writing to [TS]

  you in server serbo-croatian which I'm [TS]

  sure [TS]

  now i'm going to get angry letters from [TS]

  Serbs and Democrats don't have a couple [TS]

  who are like they're not the same [TS]

  language there's no cheddar hockey [TS]

  anymore talking about the time of the [TS]

  Ukraine up now don't haha trouble Taylor [TS]

  actually that one makes a big difference [TS]

  i didn't realize what a big deal [TS]

  the definite article is with Ukraine but [TS]

  that's a big deal it's a big deal [TS]

  have you come around to that absolutely [TS]

  i mean i've been i've been on I've been [TS]

  on their side [TS]

  uh ever since it was first explained to [TS]

  me it's just a bad habit I know I know [TS]

  you know it's just this terrible like [TS]

  going anywhere you're great and it's [TS]

  like I know but uh but it took me a long [TS]

  time even to I absolutely like [TS]

  understood it just took me so long to [TS]

  break the habit of Ukraine the Czech [TS]

  Republic although you do say that I [TS]

  gotta Berlitz to try to be able to talk [TS]

  to my stepfather I got a server creation [TS]

  Berlitz when I was a about 12 you're [TS]

  saying that your stepfather speaks [TS]

  serbo-croatian very specialized fucking [TS]

  dead [TS]

  thank God right but ya know I tried to [TS]

  learn a little bit and a little bit [TS]

  let's hear a little bit of a Chicago [TS]

  State ok but I heard that already [TS]

  remember i was twelve do we don't do you [TS]

  have some Spanish shouting in a [TS]

  heartbeat but I mean I don't feel the [TS]

  obligation to remember all a lot of [TS]

  super quick is bad person [TS]

  your powers look don't worry Daniel [TS]

  don't be then I used to say that all the [TS]

  time but that mean that's like hello how [TS]

  are you good day good day but you know [TS]

  like i get i got to the point where I [TS]

  could i I greeted someone in check one [TS]

  time and they replied to be [TS]

  enthusiastically and check and I was [TS]

  like oh sorry that was just I was just I [TS]

  was just kidding i only know like seven [TS]

  words always be so disappointing and a [TS]

  bit but then they were like wow your [TS]

  accent is incredible and I was like I'm [TS]

  not really i mean i only know seven [TS]

  words they're like no but you really got [TS]

  the access [TS]

  so I said my seven words and they were [TS]

  like very impressed with how with my [TS]

  like monkey imitation of how they [TS]

  pronounce things and for a very brief [TS]

  moment I imagined myself learning check [TS]

  em I was like yeah now you know I never [TS]

  learned German and that would have been [TS]

  actually practical something I i do a [TS]

  lot and I see a lot of my friends doing [TS]

  I don't see you doing so much you're not [TS]

  a big recommender of media I've noticed [TS]

  and i know you like a lot like you have [TS]

  consumed and actually enjoy a lot of [TS]

  media but like I don't vary i feel like [TS]

  i don't very often hear you want to pull [TS]

  somebody and aside and say like you know [TS]

  here's this is the movie to check out [TS]

  this movie check out this particular [TS]

  book it from the Discworld series or [TS]

  whatever I don't hear you like pulling [TS]

  out like specific is that is that by [TS]

  design or like how does that work [TS]

  because you have a lot of opinions you [TS]

  know a lot of stuff are you are you not [TS]

  a big recommender of media i'm not and [TS]

  and it's because because I early on I i [TS]

  understood there to be a tremendous [TS]

  difference between being a reader and [TS]

  being a fetishistic reader of lists of [TS]

  the books and it came as a result of a [TS]

  conversation I overheard between two [TS]

  people who were both who both presented [TS]

  themselves as extremely well-read and [TS]

  they were arguing with each other and by [TS]

  just essentially citing John 317 or 3 16 [TS]

  or whatever in the sense that they were [TS]

  saying like oh yeah that's interesting [TS]

  you know that's just like this passage [TS]

  for Melissa ease Ulysses and then the [TS]

  other person would say yeah it really [TS]

  reminds me a blank blank you know this [TS]

  the the original translation of Honor [TS]

  Karenina this is that this is a classic [TS]

  liberal arts problem plastic liberal [TS]

  arts conversation is to people trying to [TS]

  outdo each other on references and and [TS]

  nobody's ever allowed to say i don't [TS]

  know what you're talking about or what [TS]

  that means [TS]

  yeah and they were just throwing book [TS]

  titles and authors at one another and at [TS]

  the end of the conversation there was no [TS]

  no wonder [TS]

  standing had taken place know there was [TS]

  it was not a conversation about ideas it [TS]

  was actually discussed at length by [TS]

  italo calvino really not well that's [TS]

  very interesting because umberto eco had [TS]

  a had a passage about Calvin now i [TS]

  remember reading about that it was [TS]

  something in the New York about four [TS]

  days i was reading this exactly i was [TS]

  reading the times literary supplement [TS]

  what ya reading that about all the mouth [TS]

  or hands that used to be so good I'm so [TS]

  glad you can still enjoy that anyway it [TS]

  was infuriating because the initial the [TS]

  initial jumping-off point of the [TS]

  conversation was an idea and I really [TS]

  was excited about it [TS]

  the idea and I kept my kept waiting for [TS]

  someone to say something about it and [TS]

  and eventually like we were thousand [TS]

  miles from that idea but had traverse no [TS]

  ground and no ideas had been shared and [TS]

  I realized like part of my education or [TS]

  a large part of it was just my own way [TS]

  of finding a path through ideas and you [TS]

  know if you if you walk into not even a [TS]

  large library but just just someone's [TS]

  home library where the books are where [TS]

  it's floor-to-ceiling books on three [TS]

  walls that's more books than you could [TS]

  possibly read in a lifetime and so so [TS]

  there's so much emphasis on you know [TS]

  here's the 10 books you need to read or [TS]

  here's the 10 books that that this smart [TS]

  guy recommends and really what you're [TS]

  doing when you're doing that is missing [TS]

  the opportunity for you to find your 10 [TS]

  books and there's no such thing as a [TS]

  book that isn't useful even a book that [TS]

  you hate or a book that you throw on the [TS]

  ground like if you read if you read two [TS]

  chapters of a book and you're like this [TS]

  is garbage and you throw it away that [TS]

  was just as useful as reading a book all [TS]

  the way through in terms of you [TS]

  discovering your own taste and you [TS]

  finding your own intellectual path so [TS]

  there was a crucial moment in my life [TS]

  where I had a friend whose mother was a [TS]

  whose mother taught a course on the [TS]

  novel at a university and i was very [TS]

  poor [TS]

  so when he was done reading the books [TS]

  that his mother was was forcing her [TS]

  students to read he would pitch those [TS]

  books to me and it was basically just [TS]

  just one professors reading list it was [TS]

  like I was taking her class but it came [TS]

  at precisely the moment when I didn't [TS]

  have money to buy books and so I had [TS]

  this steady stream of books but I was [TS]

  getting not i was getting none of her [TS]

  interpretation i was not sitting in [TS]

  class discussing it with other students [TS]

  I was just getting these free books [TS]

  right and and so those books were [TS]

  leaping off points for me to go read [TS]

  other books like what is this about oh [TS]

  I'm going to go chase this and it was [TS]

  all very personal so I i really believe [TS]

  even even when you are given a reading [TS]

  list that if you're not pursuing a [TS]

  personal journey you're not getting an [TS]

  education because the because chasing is [TS]

  the key element and so I'm very [TS]

  reluctant to you know what people are [TS]

  like giving you three books about World [TS]

  War 2 i'm like there are so many books [TS]

  about where to start with the one in [TS]

  front of you start with the first one [TS]

  don't even go on amazon and look for the [TS]

  one that has the best rating find one [TS]

  and start reading it and then chase that [TS]

  trail because it's yours it belongs to [TS]

  you and like my take on world war one [TS]

  what interests me about it and the [TS]

  Balfour Declaration and the life that I [TS]

  have spent chasing the the ramifications [TS]

  of the Balfour Declaration and how that [TS]

  changed the world and we're still worst [TS]

  we're in a world that is absolutely a [TS]

  product of that and that was a product [TS]

  of world war one like that's mine you [TS]

  know and that may not be what you take [TS]

  away from world war one you made you may [TS]

  take a different thing and chase your [TS]

  own dragon so that's why i don't [TS]

  recommend media even when people you [TS]

  know address me directly and say please [TS]

  tell me what where I should go because [TS]

  it's you know it's it's obvious where [TS]

  you should go [TS]

  you just you just start and chase [TS]

  because I because the thing that I hate [TS]

  the most is this kind of monoculture of [TS]

  situations where everybody seen the same [TS]

  thing everybody seen the same thing and [TS]

  everybody has read enough reviews on the [TS]

  internet they know what their take on it [TS]

  should be and so there's not enough [TS]

  there there there aren't enough [TS]

  situations where people are saying well [TS]

  you know what that's not what I got out [TS]

  of that book at all that people have [TS]

  forgotten how to trust their own [TS]

  instincts and you know a an example of [TS]

  this is at a certain point everybody [TS]

  agreed that the eagles suck and [TS]

  everybody was reading the same critical [TS]

  are all the cool kids were reading the [TS]

  same articles where people initially [TS]

  were were advancing a pretty of you know [TS]

  like a pretty contra argument the Eagles [TS]

  greatest hits is the best-selling album [TS]

  of all time and so super easy in in the [TS]

  eighties to write an article saying [TS]

  actually the Eagles are garbage and then [TS]

  that became a thing that you could not [TS]

  argue against you know a real group [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah so that even now when glenn frey [TS]

  died there were all these all these [TS]

  reflection pieces that were like well he [TS]

  sucked and his band sucked but I still [TS]

  kind of feel like he sucked and I and [TS]

  now he's dead and so i can't really like [TS]

  this is sort of a thing i'm writing to [TS]

  commemorate that but he's really [TS]

  intolerable and it was just like wow [TS]

  they're so now the the really radical [TS]

  stance to take is like I like to the [TS]

  eagles and that's just that's just a [TS]

  product I think of of people just having [TS]

  a having reading lists that are too [TS]

  small in on something that runs through [TS]

  all these also is in my mind is this [TS]

  implicit the first of all let me [TS]

  distract by saying like I think it's one [TS]

  thing i think is very useful to people [TS]

  can be very useful in this this is I [TS]

  don't know if we agree or disagree on [TS]

  this but I think it can be useful to [TS]

  give somebody a starting point with [TS]

  something so like with comics for [TS]

  example i will frequently say check out [TS]

  this comic or that comic boot huh [TS]

  watch me [TS]

  we have the best place to start but but [TS]

  there are comics out there and i know [TS]

  but the thing is i will also ask them [TS]

  also like okay like what kind of like [TS]

  novels you enjoy what TV shows do you [TS]

  like not just for theme not just for [TS]

  like do you like Vikings or space people [TS]

  along the lines of what kind of stories [TS]

  do you like because just because you [TS]

  like science fiction is no guarantee [TS]

  you're gonna like Steven Moffat dr who [TS]

  that's gonna be more like you know do [TS]

  you like switches and change them up [TS]

  Drew's situation change ups and so I try [TS]

  to take all that in being the person is [TS]

  going to advise you where to start i [TS]

  want to call that into consideration and [TS]

  so I think that can be helpful but with [TS]

  that said I think I feel like sometimes [TS]

  in this in this age there's something [TS]

  kind of implicit for a long time we call [TS]

  it the cannon like you don't want to not [TS]

  know about something in the Canon [TS]

  because you look at dummy [TS]

  so let you should I top Sawyer well or [TS]

  like you know whatever like if somebody [TS]

  was talking about the old man and the [TS]

  sea you won't be able to not too long [TS]

  ago yes and OSS and I I think sometimes [TS]

  I feel like maybe what what you might be [TS]

  pushing back against I can't speak for [TS]

  you but is this cliff notes problem of [TS]

  people it it sounds like they're saying [TS]

  what books [TS]

  what book should I read what books [TS]

  should I read but there's always part of [TS]

  me that wants to say that feels like [TS]

  well there's also there's this tendency [TS]

  that's like what book should i be able [TS]

  to say that i've read which is different [TS]

  which is a different thing altogether [TS]

  hmm and what you know again the thinking [TS]

  about the way one discovers a books or a [TS]

  movie or whatever accidentally and you [TS]

  know everybody was a nerd or geek can [TS]

  talk about having like an extreme [TS]

  attachment to most other people don't [TS]

  like it all or consider to be the worst [TS]

  of that particular kind of thing but you [TS]

  have a special affection for because it [TS]

  was yours and you discovered that you [TS]

  always have that even if your critical [TS]

  faculties theoretically grow us still [TS]

  always enjoy that one even though you [TS]

  may not think it's the best one but you [TS]

  can't know that unless you've sort of [TS]

  discovered it [TS]

  the problem is if you go into it loaded [TS]

  for bear and you have you read this [TS]

  wikipedia article [TS]

  you've read the the top ten novels you [TS]

  need to read before you die [TS]

  you've seen these listen all these [TS]

  things you know that like there's [TS]

  certain things that you can name check [TS]

  that most people in the room are going [TS]

  to a agree with an r RB [TS]

  to make make you sound cool that you [TS]

  said that me and you didn't say that so [TS]

  if you see even though the Eagles had [TS]

  one of the greatest selling albums of [TS]

  all time several other than that [TS]

  probably it's not cool to say you like [TS]

  the Eagles because at some point we all [TS]

  agreed that they were cool [TS]

  yeah you know and so that's that's part [TS]

  of it is that when you i don't know i [TS]

  don't want to feed into that I'm [TS]

  certainly been guilty of that I've gone [TS]

  and scurried to go learn about something [TS]

  as much as anybody else has but what but [TS]

  we're talking about something that feels [TS]

  especially feels like special to you you [TS]

  know you can't replicate the experience [TS]

  of having discovered something by having [TS]

  somebody hand you a list with three [TS]

  things on and say like these are three [TS]

  things you should note to name-check [TS]

  yeah i think the example that I always [TS]

  come back to is the is the [TS]

  israel-palestine problem like really [TS]

  thoughtful intelligent sensitive people [TS]

  can disagree passionately about what [TS]

  that problem is right what kind would [TS]

  even constitutes that problem and what [TS]

  would constitute the cut is the [TS]

  constellation of those problems right [TS]

  right if you're trying to explain South [TS]

  Africa like you think you understand [TS]

  South Africa go talk to our friend grant [TS]

  it's always been way more complicated [TS]

  than anybody realized yeah infinitely [TS]

  infinitely complicated and so you're [TS]

  you're jumping off point for the [TS]

  israeli-palestinian problem in a lot of [TS]

  ways is your moral education right like [TS]

  you can read a thousand books about it [TS]

  and depending you know you you are going [TS]

  to have your opinion either confirmed or [TS]

  you're going to disagree or I mean it [TS]

  like that like the number of of entrance [TS]

  points to that argument it's in a lot of [TS]

  ways it's very hard for me even to [TS]

  imagine how you would educate someone on [TS]

  it that wasn't deeply personal because [TS]

  they're ours because there are so many [TS]

  factors in play that a lot of them are [TS]

  our product of books that you read a [TS]

  long long time before and how you how [TS]

  you responded to your nursery rhymes in [TS]

  a way and so you know last night I was [TS]

  watching a miniseries about Carlos the [TS]

  Jackal and I was doing that because [TS]

  that's what i think is fun [TS]

  that's what Isis I narcos no no no [TS]

  Carlos the Jackal a completely other not [TS]

  not not related to marcos and all Carlos [TS]

  the Jackal was a was a well I guess he [TS]

  was one of the people that invented [TS]

  terrorism and early at well he he was a [TS]

  terrorist that that went through every [TS]

  stage like he started in the sixties he [TS]

  wasn't arrested finally until 1994 and [TS]

  he pioneered a lot of terrorism lot of [TS]

  different kinds of terrorism he was [TS]

  there at the start when hijacking planes [TS]

  was still fun [TS]

  who and so and he was fighting for the [TS]

  Palestinian cause and for the and also [TS]

  for the cause of global revolution and [TS]

  this miniseries is there sort of [TS]

  glamorizing him and making him he's very [TS]

  sexy and he's and he and he's the hero [TS]

  of this film and played by a sexy actor [TS]

  and because it was made by friend it was [TS]

  made by french television it shows his [TS]

  penis and so you go you know if there is [TS]

  a way to watch it where you become very [TS]

  sympathetic to the idea of throwing a [TS]

  grenade into a cafe because this is you [TS]

  know this is your protagonist and to [TS]

  watch it is to suggest either that you [TS]

  begin reading backwards [TS]

  you know you start at the the white [TS]

  album and then you listen to sergeant [TS]

  pepper and then you listen to rubber [TS]

  sole and you go back to Jerry Lee Lewis [TS]

  you know you have to do that to make any [TS]

  sense of this [TS]

  what's happening in carlos the jackal [TS]

  and then you start reading forward after [TS]

  you have that if you're after you've [TS]

  read backwards then you have to start [TS]

  reading forward from there and that's a [TS]

  very involved and personal journey right [TS]

  i mean if you're starting off because [TS]

  there are a lot of people wearing a [TS]

  wearing Palestinian scarfs on their [TS]

  college campus who have been given an [TS]

  opinion about it by their you know by [TS]

  their professor or their friends or [TS]

  whoever stop them on campus and handed [TS]

  them a flyer and you know and that was [TS]

  their entrance point into into having if [TS]

  having a feeling about it and then [TS]

  that's going to really determine how you [TS]

  how you read everything else and hard to [TS]

  imagine that that that whatever whatever [TS]

  that first sort of black-and-white [TS]

  opinion you you developed hard to [TS]

  imagine that it's never really going to [TS]

  be affected by the evidence because it's [TS]

  so intractable you know but you know but [TS]

  they're there so many depths of opinion [TS]

  you can have about it and one of them is [TS]

  to stand in the pin in your quad and [TS]

  yell about it and one of them is to have [TS]

  read 80 books so i don't know i would [TS]

  like people to i would like people to [TS]

  have read the 80 books that I've read [TS]

  but i would also like people to read 80 [TS]

  different books and I don't know I [TS]

  honestly don't know how to because i [TS]

  think you're right there are a lot of [TS]

  ways I guess I don't want to shape I [TS]

  don't want to shape people who are [TS]

  interested in me in a way that makes [TS]

  them acolytes you know her [TS]

  so anyway yeah i don't i don't recommend [TS]

  a lot of of media and and maybe that's [TS]

  maybe that's not maybe that's not good [TS]

  maybe I should I part of it is i don't i [TS]

  don't know where to start [TS]

  uh-huh you know I don't know why you [TS]

  would be interested in the Balfour [TS]

  Declaration the first time you read [TS]

  about [TS]

  you know I don't know how you would see [TS]

  it and understand what it represented [TS]

  well through I don't know how much [TS]

  you're sandbagging here but I'm not sure [TS]

  I know what sandbagging is oh is that [TS]

  where you prevent a river from [TS]

  overflowing [TS]

  yep a little bit like hustling it's a [TS]

  little bit like acting acting like you [TS]

  are aren't as good at something as you [TS]

  are right by which i just mean that will [TS]

  I you can I hope you can understand that [TS]

  when you listen to somebody else talk [TS]

  about something that you don't know [TS]

  about or you don't know a lot about or [TS]

  you don't have an opinion that you are [TS]

  particularly attached to [TS]

  I mean just think about how much of what [TS]

  we do in a given most people including [TS]

  me in a given month is like listening to [TS]

  what other people have to say about [TS]

  something and in this case you're [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  in some cases some stuff that we talked [TS]

  about world war two or whatever its [TS]

  people know some stuff about but they [TS]

  never thought about it in the way that [TS]

  you put it [TS]

  you seem like a pretty intelligent guy [TS]

  and you've got a point of view about it [TS]

  i don't think it's unusual to say huh [TS]

  I'd like to be a little bit smarter [TS]

  about that where should I start [TS]

  well yeah but you would got me into [TS]

  world war two was a my dad fought in it [TS]

  and be the plains and the boats and the [TS]

  trucks and the tanks were cool like I [TS]

  think when you talk about high [TS]

  watermarks there was never a cooler set [TS]

  of gear and as a kid like when f4 [TS]

  phantoms were flying all around my house [TS]

  I was much more interested in the f4u a [TS]

  navy airplane that took off from [TS]

  aircraft carriers and you know and [TS]

  fought over Corregidor just because I [TS]

  loved the planes you know and i would [TS]

  buy and i would get these books about [TS]

  world war two planes and I would look at [TS]

  them and I would learn about him and I [TS]

  just thought they were rad and through [TS]

  that through be thinking the planes were [TS]

  read i read enough of those books that I [TS]

  started to say oh shit you know world [TS]

  war two what's going on here [TS]

  it's not just you know it's not just [TS]

  Hitler yamamoto it's like who are all [TS]

  these other characters than read about [TS]

  them and then uh you know that I got can [TS]

  confused and I when I watched the winds [TS]

  of war [TS]

  her and then having watched the winds of [TS]

  war i read the winds of war you know and [TS]

  that's so then I became you know that i [TS]

  became converse in world war two and [TS]

  world war one looked so boring so boring [TS]

  they just sat in muddy trenches for [TS]

  years with hat helmets that had little [TS]

  spikes on them and every once in a while [TS]

  somebody got hung up in some barbed wire [TS]

  and I was just like yon city and I [TS]

  avoided learning about world war one for [TS]

  a long long time because it was just so [TS]

  dull [TS]

  where did they had no cool planes like [TS]

  Eddie Rickenbacker up there in a plane [TS]

  made of balsa wood yawn but the more I [TS]

  learned about World War 2 the more I [TS]

  didn't understand the more I learned [TS]

  about Hitler the more I didn't [TS]

  understand and have and eventually all [TS]

  arrows pointed to world war one and I [TS]

  didn't want to learn about I didn't want [TS]

  to read about World War One God what is [TS]

  a bunch of a bunch of people run riding [TS]

  into battle on horseback and getting cut [TS]

  down by machine guns nothing about that [TS]

  is fun but then I read about it and [TS]

  started to realize that that was [TS]

  interesting about world war one was that [TS]

  it was it was the 19th century colliding [TS]

  with the 20th century and all these [TS]

  empires collide you know washing up on [TS]

  the shore of modernity and then I had to [TS]

  go back and learn about the Empire's you [TS]

  know and that that was like me [TS]

  reluctantly the whole time just kicking [TS]

  and screaming I don't want to learn [TS]

  about Russia what does that have to do [TS]

  with that I think there are no even [TS]

  airplanes and then i'm reading about the [TS]

  thirty years war which if you want to [TS]

  talk about boring it's not the thirty [TS]

  years war was boring it's that the [TS]

  scholarship about it is boring and you [TS]

  know it's always chapter after chapter [TS]

  about salting the fields and why is the [TS]

  king of Sweden involved you know and [TS]

  then it's bad then it's back at the wave [TS]

  washes back so so 2 to say to anybody [TS]

  like hair you know here's the book about [TS]

  world war one you should read i didn't [TS]

  get there that way I got there through [TS]

  loving airplanes [TS]

  her so I can't if I can't divorce that I [TS]

  can't divorce that whole long walk and [TS]

  then walking back and then walking this [TS]

  way and walking that way from that [TS]

  initial beginning of like just being a [TS]

  kid sitting cross-legged in the library [TS]

  reading about about these cool things at [TS]

  and and I guess that's how i found my [TS]

  way into every single thing I ever read [TS]

  and it feels so feel so individual that [TS]

  at every every book I recommend I I feel [TS]

  this enormous responsibility to [TS]

  recommend the ten books that should come [TS]

  in advance of it and it feels a little [TS]

  bit like the long version of The [TS]

  Godfather where I'm trying to put these [TS]

  movies that I watched that were [TS]

  narrative Lee all broken up and trying [TS]

  to put them in some kind of [TS]

  chronological order and so that I'm like [TS]

  well you have to start reading a book [TS]

  about the thirty years war which is [TS]

  literally the most boring thing I've [TS]

  ever read [TS]

  so you're not going to want to do that [TS]

  but it's like youryour it's kind of a [TS]

  similar point to the talk about [TS]

  Palestine and Israel or however you [TS]

  choose to frame that is that you [TS]

  the first thing you wanna almost [TS]

  recommend is that you can't recommend is [TS]

  to start with the state of mind that I [TS]

  had which I don't want you to have but [TS]

  to take the journey that I did you must [TS]

  first start with the state of mind that [TS]

  I had which I could not replicate for [TS]

  you and I would even recommend it if I [TS]

  could [TS]

  yeah right like and any and you wonder [TS]

  where people are on that like do you [TS]

  still like cool planes is that we're [TS]

  here is that why you're interested in [TS]

  world war two is that cool planes [TS]

  because i can tell you what to read [TS]

  about cool planes but where are you [TS]

  coming into it are you coming into it [TS]

  having watch band of brothers and you [TS]

  want to know more [TS]

  right that's fascinating to but by the [TS]

  time i watch band of brothers [TS]

  I had all this context that made that [TS]

  that made that miniseries really sing to [TS]

  me if that was the first thing I [TS]

  experienced about World War two [TS]

  you know i would i would just jump off [TS]

  from there I go like figure out who [TS]

  major winters was [TS]

  was and what he was like when he was a [TS]

  little i don't i love that series [TS]

  alright it's so much and everything in [TS]

  it like when you're getting to the point [TS]

  where there is in the or again when [TS]

  someone have the really the tough winter [TS]

  in the forest and the bombs coming in [TS]

  but you know the thing is you go in if [TS]

  you're like me you're sitting there [TS]

  looking at Wikipedia while you're [TS]

  watching it and it is not it is not a [TS]

  lick of exaggeration and what's [TS]

  happening and I it's exactly as awful as [TS]

  it looked [TS]

  it's so it's so incredible and that's [TS]

  and there are 50 movies about d-day [TS]

  and-and-and about a battle of the bolts [TS]

  which is the absolute last thing that's [TS]

  happening in that war [TS]

  we're already six million Russian [TS]

  soldiers have died right I don't know [TS]

  you're you know you're starting in the [TS]

  third act of war [TS]

  that's the wrong place to come in on [TS]

  that play yeah and then the United [TS]

  States really plays a small role in the [TS]

  war in terms of fighting battles like [TS]

  the Battle of Stalingrad we there aren't [TS]

  50 movies about but you know talk about [TS]

  brutality but the thing about thing [TS]

  about d-day is it's so fantastic these [TS]

  guys in these little silliness to my dad [TS]

  I just see the photo i just sent you [TS]

  know else might my daughter a essential [TS]

  photo on your phone on my phone [TS]

  oh shit that's a whole other technology [TS]

  in the one sitting in from I'm sorry [TS]

  well anyway out all the important thing [TS]

  to know is that my daughter went for her [TS]

  brownie troop went to an aviation museum [TS]

  and she's really into planes now [TS]

  oh really yeah you can see here where [TS]

  she's uh my wife calls me over and look [TS]

  at her door she got a chalkboard or and [TS]

  now says home to Amelia Earhart and as [TS]

  our plane hanging from it and she goes [TS]

  yeah just so you know I'm gonna be into [TS]

  this for like a year haha she was so [TS]

  excited so we've been talking a lot [TS]

  about planes and about about it you know [TS]

  aeronautics aviation you and I told your [TS]

  dad story about 20 haha and how we may [TS]

  or may not be exactly to Tony told that [TS]

  story but what was my point talking to [TS]

  her about d-day and I was trying to [TS]

  explain DJ her and like I and but just [TS]

  how improbable so much of d-day was to [TS]

  just you know it's like I said a bunch [TS]

  of times and I know people there are [TS]

  people older people who disagree with [TS]

  this I've argued like [TS]

  my mother-in-law about this but like [TS]

  just that sense of like if you came in [TS]

  on the movie it let's say if you if [TS]

  you're learning about world war two and [TS]

  you left off [TS]

  what and Midway like if you get some [TS]

  point like say 43 there's no guarantee [TS]

  that this was gonna end great for [TS]

  America no arm just i mean i think that [TS]

  one of the if there's anything to take [TS]

  away and i don't mean to give advice [TS]

  here is just to remember like how bad it [TS]

  seems and how entirely possible it [TS]

  seemed at a certain point that we were [TS]

  going to lose and we're gonna lose big [TS]

  and just just need to know about what [TS]

  went into like all of the like all the [TS]

  different drives to try and get the [TS]

  resources what people in America were [TS]

  for going to go to the Troops and it's [TS]

  just it's a story that as many times as [TS]

  told still incredibly moving to me how [TS]

  we kept at it especially England my god [TS]

  but how we kept out and even stuff got [TS]

  so so very terrible and then like you [TS]

  can't really appreciate how awesome to [TS]

  be the whole DNA thing is unless you [TS]

  appreciate what a crash it it was that [TS]

  there's no way a plan that huge could [TS]

  work and not be discovered and work it's [TS]

  it's mind-boggling and you're exactly [TS]

  right because because so often now the [TS]

  the first thing you understand about the [TS]

  Battle of Midway was that it was the [TS]

  turning point of the war in the Pacific [TS]

  and it's like here Battle of Midway was [TS]

  the turning point of the war in the [TS]

  Pacific and so you go okay really [TS]

  and you watch every you you learn about [TS]

  it as a fait accompli [TS]

  yeah and really it was a totally random [TS]

  series of happy accidents incredible [TS]

  luck and like awesome risk-taking right [TS]

  i mean the the risks involved the people [TS]

  who were flying on empty gas tanks to at [TS]

  the last possible minute look down [TS]

  through the clouds see a task force and [TS]

  radio it in and just be like wow what go [TS]

  got all this point at this point what [TS]

  the Japanese still just basically [TS]

  kicking our ass and you know they're [TS]

  kicking our ass everywhere that I mean [TS]

  they were they were kicking our ass in a [TS]

  in you know Malaysia and Indonesia and [TS]

  philippines and they were just they were [TS]

  ruling and we were like we are most of [TS]

  our fleet was on was up at the bottom of [TS]

  Pearl Harbor [TS]

  and we just you know and this is the [TS]

  thing like American plot coming it's [TS]

  part of our it's part of our our [TS]

  foundation math almost actually but yeah [TS]

  you have to read about that stuff with [TS]

  that sense of like this could go either [TS]

  way in a big way where we are the [TS]

  underdogs here and that's what's so [TS]

  great about it but like would DJ started [TS]

  with a swell made those landings they [TS]

  didn't know that Hitler was Hitler had [TS]

  gone insane [TS]

  they didn't really I mean they knew that [TS]

  the Russians were were pushing back and [TS]

  they knew that that was the strategy but [TS]

  they didn't know that the chain of [TS]

  command in the Nazi army had broken down [TS]

  and that Hitler was acting as his own [TS]

  general and not taking any advice from [TS]

  his soldiers right so now we look at [TS]

  that were like oh shit [TS]

  there wasn't any way we could lose but [TS]

  that's you know that's not how they [TS]

  thought and and yeah that homefront [TS]

  stuff i mean how many books have you [TS]

  read about how how many different times [TS]

  that you have a aha moment i'm still [TS]

  reading books like like that the meaning [TS]

  of Hitler where it's a palm slap to the [TS]

  forehead [TS]

  Wow huh I never thought of that [TS]

  I never in all the years of reading [TS]

  about this stuff had that moment and I [TS]

  don't know what would what it would have [TS]

  been like if i had read the meeting of [TS]

  Hitler first you know what I mean yeah [TS]

  so yeah i i'm i'm confused by it and and [TS]

  and and and eventually like how do you [TS]

  because it because i'm so thrilled that [TS]

  Eleanor likes airplanes [TS]

  yeah and because that's the general [TS]

  helmet and goggles in the whole night [TS]

  that's the entrance to so much for me [TS]

  arable land where the where the where [TS]

  the gateway drug for my whole education [TS]

  and the different ways that people could [TS]

  enter into I mean you know if the first [TS]

  thing you read his house at Green Gables [TS]

  or pride and prejudice you're going to [TS]

  follow such an incredibly different an [TS]

  amazing path and I envy you [TS]

  and I would never want to interrupt that [TS]

  by saying read this book about airplanes [TS]

  in a way you don't yeah and uh and so [TS]

  and you know and that's part of the [TS]

  weird weird [TS]

  gender specificity of culture that you [TS]

  know that in I and I don't understand [TS]

  the process of like how much of it is [TS]

  self-selecting how much of it is imposed [TS]

  but are you there god it's me margaret [TS]

  was a book that a lot of people in my [TS]

  fifth-grade class read and talked about [TS]

  and I read secretly because no boys were [TS]

  supposed to read it [TS]

  are you there it's me margaret was for [TS]

  girls only [TS]

  and this was before the the gender [TS]

  division of toys and stuff you know what [TS]

  did you read that article was like in [TS]

  nineteen seventy five eighty percent of [TS]

  toys were non-gender eyes it was like I [TS]

  remember very much that being true for [TS]

  things like games yeah and that would be [TS]

  extremities you have the pink dolly [TS]

  stuff over here and the machine gun [TS]

  stuff over here but there was a lot more [TS]

  stuff that was for like a better word [TS]

  unisex yeah like here's a ball you want [TS]

  to play a game with a ball it if you [TS]

  want to play four square with it or you [TS]

  want to play soccer you want to play can [TS]

  I get you can play war baller nurse Paul [TS]

  exactly but here's a ball [TS]

  yeah right now every ball has either [TS]

  frozen or GI joe stenciled on huh [TS]

  um but at the butt but in fifth grade [TS]

  boys did not read are you there god it's [TS]

  me margaret and i did because I was [TS]

  curious about it and I like to read [TS]

  books and you know and so all the girl [TS]

  books where it was like here you know [TS]

  oh my god she got her period for the [TS]

  first time I i read and was like who I [TS]

  don't know what that is but that's what [TS]

  I'm I'm happy for her [TS]

  or am I meant to be sad for her I don't [TS]

  know and it didn't you know that that [TS]

  didn't that knowledge didn't turn me [TS]

  into a the world's greatest lover it [TS]

  turned me into something that was that [TS]

  was wondering when I was gonna get my [TS]

  part [TS]

  [Music] [TS]