Roderick on the Line

Ep. 187: "The Nicest Oubliette"


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  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

  oh well it's a little crazy out there [TS]

  actually [TS]

  what's up oh I just recommend that you [TS]

  not go out today I don't you should I [TS]

  think you should stay stay in is [TS]

  probably good advice everywhere [TS]

  well yeah I mean I think I feel like a [TS]

  lot of people were making left-hand [TS]

  turns from the right-hand lane today if [TS]

  you know what I'm saying [TS]

  yeah and it just felt like boy don't [TS]

  don't don't make any unnecessary trips [TS]

  as the state troopers say they're never [TS]

  heard that advice that's it really [TS]

  wasn't on the war [TS]

  no no that's very common state trooper [TS]

  advice don't make any unnecessary trips [TS]

  today but any of my parts that spanned [TS]

  letting the guy with the broom decide [TS]

  how many elephants can be in the parade [TS]

  just makes his job easy [TS]

  you will help me right after advise you [TS]

  not to use your car's much that kind of [TS]

  puts a it's a bit of a burden on us in [TS]

  the law enforcement community I had I [TS]

  had that exact experience one time where [TS]

  the state trooper standing at a [TS]

  roadblock and I drove up to it and he [TS]

  said roads closed and I said really and [TS]

  he said well I mean you can go if you [TS]

  want what I said well alright i will he [TS]

  was like so on you it's more like as [TS]

  serving suggestion no I think he was [TS]

  like roads closed and everybody turn [TS]

  around let me lose the [TS]

  passive-aggressive state trooper but [TS]

  whatever but you know he was he wasn't [TS]

  he didn't have a hundred percent [TS]

  conviction and and I was like well fuck [TS]

  it i never saw a road that was so close [TS]

  that that I wouldn't take a shot at it i [TS]

  think is dale carnegie said no I when it [TS]

  was a hairy ride i'll tell you but it [TS]

  was wasn't closed [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah i think you know i'm not [TS]

  i don't like to drive I don't drive if I [TS]

  can avoid it but i I've always lived in [TS]

  fear of that thing where the cop asks [TS]

  you where you're going and with the [TS]

  implicit question of like why you're [TS]

  going where you're going and I really [TS]

  just part of this bigger existential [TS]

  anxiety for me which is I don't have [TS]

  like one particularly good read [TS]

  in for anything that I do and I don't [TS]

  like that like being asked about that [TS]

  that's easy enough people say like why [TS]

  didn't you buy this phone so well first [TS]

  of all who cares and second of all [TS]

  that's a weird question but I'm gonna [TS]

  keep asking why you're going we're going [TS]

  that that's like a crisis of confidence [TS]

  and out for me because I'm like do I [TS]

  really need to be doing this should be [TS]

  doing this is a man I don't you know [TS]

  what I thought I knew what I was doing [TS]

  this and now i feel kind of bad that I'm [TS]

  even here in wasting your time right [TS]

  apart why am I doing this I'm doing this [TS]

  what I'm going to go to go visit my [TS]

  family do I want to do that no i'm not [TS]

  completely I mean why am i doing that [TS]

  I'm doing out of the familial obligation [TS]

  like what way you are you here [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah well see that's exactly [TS]

  my answer that question mean when [TS]

  somebody says haha [TS]

  where you going why are you going there [TS]

  I always say why do any of us do [TS]

  anything right in the version of that [TS]

  same thing except its subjects said from [TS]

  a process first set from a position of [TS]

  like why are you doing what you're doing [TS]

  Oh glad that's just having a cop than [TS]

  one here oh no no but you know but that [TS]

  that's a potential it's a potential [TS]

  moment for you guys to really bond over [TS]

  the fact that are you know what what why [TS]

  do any of us do anything I it seems like [TS]

  one of those questions when they give [TS]

  you a polygraph test before they get to [TS]

  the like [TS]

  did you kill Nicole Brown Simpson [TS]

  questions they have to ask you you know [TS]

  it was your name [TS]

  you know right ornithology james simpson [TS]

  like that you've got to ask the like [TS]

  baseline questions and see how you [TS]

  reacted those before they can look for [TS]

  the spikes by the way he got a negative [TS]

  24 on that was very upsetting to john [TS]

  travolta in the movie but you know what [TS]

  i mean and so like I think when there's [TS]

  a lot of things were like you ask [TS]

  somebody a question not to get an answer [TS]

  but to see how they react to the [TS]

  question mm and I think that's what a [TS]

  cop is doing I think they're trained to [TS]

  do that they don't actually care while [TS]

  you're driving but they want to see if [TS]

  you're up to some monkey business [TS]

  yeah well I remember getting pulled over [TS]

  by cop one night and I had a guy in the [TS]

  back of the car who was a former Army [TS]

  veteran fought in the old fun in the [TS]

  famous Panama war she recalled the the [TS]

  noriega the noriega war where they were [TS]

  they parked out in front of the music [TS]

  remember simply the heavy metal music he [TS]

  fought in that war and it would but it [TS]

  was a genuine war army people shot at [TS]

  other people and and succeeded in there [TS]

  mission of shooting other people and so [TS]

  he was a really big guy in an army guy [TS]

  and that was before we had the term for [TS]

  this kind of libertarian [TS]

  anti-authoritarian take over a Wildlife [TS]

  Refuge style anti-government person but [TS]

  he was certainly anti-authoritarian and [TS]

  so I got pulled over this cop foregoing [TS]

  15-30 or something like and he [TS]

  immediately gets you can just hear him [TS]

  behind me just in this body limp body [TS]

  English of like all right I'm not taking [TS]

  you no we're not taking any shit off of [TS]

  this and it wasn't that he wasn't going [TS]

  to take any shit it was that he was [TS]

  communicating to the car that we weren't [TS]

  going to take it well in the larger way [TS]

  that no shit would be takin no shit is [TS]

  going to be taken here this cop you know [TS]

  barely has the authority to pull the [TS]

  soap and so the cop walks up and he's [TS]

  like I said it's in the middle of the [TS]

  night you know it's like one of those [TS]

  it's a little bit fraught already the [TS]

  complex up and i'm sure he sees the [TS]

  six-foot-five bald army guy staring [TS]

  straight ahead with his jaw clenched in [TS]

  the backseat I'm sure he sees him before [TS]

  he even sees me and he comes up to me [TS]

  and he's like Sir do you know why I [TS]

  pulled you over and I was like yeah I [TS]

  was going 15 to 30 and the guy behind me [TS]

  loses his mind you can hear Mike switch [TS]

  like you give too much away like what do [TS]

  you doing [TS]

  name rank and serial number and the cop [TS]

  was like yeah that's right and I was [TS]

  like yeah sorry i was there nobody on [TS]

  the road and I was just driving [TS]

  I mean it's not like i was going 15 to [TS]

  30 and they were like school buses on [TS]

  the street it's two in the morning and [TS]

  the cop said alright sir house you know [TS]

  give me your license registration and [TS]

  you know sit tight and goes back to his [TS]

  car and I the my buddy just give me the [TS]

  Baltimore dressing-down what the fuck [TS]

  are you doing man [TS]

  she's just what about however right and [TS]

  you know five minutes later the cop [TS]

  comes back and he's like alright will [TS]

  slow down out there has been my license [TS]

  and registration I'm like yeah see the [TS]

  cub you know he's not an ass [TS]

  he's not an idiot yeah there's nobody [TS]

  else on the highway you just be just be [TS]

  a problem with people i get off at [TS]

  tickets all the time and it's largely [TS]

  white privilege oh no that's a big part [TS]

  i just--there's a thing there's a thing [TS]

  like cops to a really hard job and it's [TS]

  really hard with the hottest hard [TS]

  difficult and dangerous work but but [TS]

  it's just it's so no matter how old I [TS]

  get I still think it's weird that [TS]

  anybody wants to be a cop and I'm still [TS]

  suspicious of anybody who wants to be a [TS]

  cop and I know that's wrong i know i'm [TS]

  sorry i'm certain that there are people [TS]

  who are genuine sociopathic bullies who [TS]

  specifically with a Napoleon complex who [TS]

  in particular become cops just so they [TS]

  can be bossy [TS]

  I don't doubt that for a second but [TS]

  there are a lot of good people but the [TS]

  job is so weird I mean the actual job [TS]

  you think about the job I think about in [TS]

  your case like if somebody you're in a [TS]

  position where somebody says to you hey [TS]

  John like i'll give you like fifty [TS]

  dollars to come to Boston for an hour [TS]

  and you're in a position to go like oh [TS]

  you know that's not really a good deal [TS]

  for me and like I wouldn't want to do [TS]

  that whereas somebody else's I'm gonna [TS]

  get $50,000 to like do something in your [TS]

  own backyard you say yeah they'll do [TS]

  that could you can weigh like what [TS]

  that's a good use of your time [TS]

  happens to me all the time all the time [TS]

  both directions you're constantly [TS]

  fielding offers but when you're a cop [TS]

  it just seems like there's so much stuff [TS]

  that basically just comes down to time [TS]

  and paperwork and in that case like why [TS]

  he did he really pull you over like was [TS]

  did he pull that any people do over you [TS]

  follow i'm going with this one yeah what [TS]

  a weird job to have to pull somebody [TS]

  over check their information and not [TS]

  give a ticket like okay so was he just [TS]

  looking for was he working off the books [TS]

  for people who like were had drugs in [TS]

  their car or something was that part of [TS]

  his assignment was this assignment to [TS]

  get more tickets like what was his job [TS]

  what what part of his job was he doing [TS]

  when he pulled you over Andy succeed at [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah and I don't know I can't answer [TS]

  that question without without rolling [TS]

  through this whole array of motivations [TS]

  for why you would be a cop in the first [TS]

  place and what their actual role is in [TS]

  society because I i honestly can't tell [TS]

  you but your five different peoples [TS]

  fight for reasons why they want to pull [TS]

  somebody over because it is based on [TS]

  their intuition right oh well where's [TS]

  the gun [TS]

  yeah speaking I mean you know he's on [TS]

  he's on speed trap duty or whatever [TS]

  I think it's also two o'clock in the [TS]

  morning he's driving around he's that's [TS]

  his job to be out and so he's looking [TS]

  around and I think the best cops [TS]

  understand that they are agents of the [TS]

  state and that we all agree on laws and [TS]

  that those laws need to be enforced and [TS]

  the state and forces them for a variety [TS]

  of reasons and the way they do that is [TS]

  through the police and so the worst cops [TS]

  think that they are personally charged [TS]

  with a with a personal authority to be [TS]

  out there busting bad guys like those [TS]

  that's just the wrong motivation almost [TS]

  like a crusader [TS]

  yeah right i mean the guys that think [TS]

  that they have some superior ability to [TS]

  handle situations and get in there and [TS]

  you know deal with people deal with you [TS]

  know the bad guys like those guys should [TS]

  I don't know what they should do they [TS]

  should become trainers you know but but [TS]

  the best cops understand that like we [TS]

  need police because the state makes laws [TS]

  the benefit of us all and then we have [TS]

  to enforce those laws because a lot of [TS]

  people are gonna you know a lot of [TS]

  people are going to say that doesn't [TS]

  apply to me [TS]

  myself included and so yeah the cops are [TS]

  out there they're like okay I'm i pulled [TS]

  the i pulled the one am 28 a.m. shift [TS]

  and i'm out here enforcing the laws and [TS]

  if I see a guy driving 15-30 whose cars [TS]

  on fire and he's on top of it wearing a [TS]

  toga and waving a scimitars I'm [TS]

  definitely pulling him over [TS]

  uh-huh because he is gonna be something [TS]

  going on he appears to be a danger to [TS]

  everyone [TS]

  well you know also just basics weather [TS]

  since you know smoke there's fire or [TS]

  better still where there's fire there's [TS]

  a car on fire and that's probably why [TS]

  she got the road [TS]

  that's exactly right but you getting to [TS]

  the seminar he's driving along and he [TS]

  sees a guy he's a car full of guys uh [TS]

  who look like a former Army Rangers and [TS]

  they're going too fast and that's really [TS]

  the only thing that's going on right now [TS]

  he's looking around he wishes it a space [TS]

  alien would come down and give him [TS]

  something exciting to do but that's the [TS]

  only thing that's going on and so he's [TS]

  like all right I'm gonna pull these guys [TS]

  over and he checks your idea [TS]

  he puts it into the computer is like all [TS]

  right nobody and I think he took [TS]

  everybody's idea for a cliq if i [TS]

  remember correctly ok I you know and and [TS]

  everybody was fine and it was like this [TS]

  is fine this is just a normal situation [TS]

  and that's why I say yeah I was speeding [TS]

  I I honestly I and I mean I'm not [TS]

  flipping him attitude like seriously [TS]

  dude it's just like yeah I understand [TS]

  why you pulled me over but also do you [TS]

  understand why I'm going 15 to 30 and he [TS]

  does and so everything so he Percy sees [TS]

  himself and his job correctly which is [TS]

  like I'm out here because people want me [TS]

  out here and when I encounter a [TS]

  situation i can use my good judgment and [TS]

  say move along who um it's just it's [TS]

  just those bad cops that and anything is [TS]

  a lot of the bad cops are always the [TS]

  ones that don't see themselves as bad [TS]

  because they're the ones out there [TS]

  breaking knees and chasing bad chasing [TS]

  guys in hoodies and making the world [TS]

  safe you know and that's just it seems [TS]

  that's that seems like a stereotype that [TS]

  must have its factual you know examples [TS]

  in life even I mean as much as that [TS]

  stereotype that must happen i'm talking [TS]

  about like in his case like in and this [TS]

  is why I struggle to understand like [TS]

  what it's like to be a you-know-what ago [TS]

  you would not a beat cop but like you [TS]

  know a lower-level police officer not a [TS]

  detective not somebody's charged was [TS]

  saying look we need you to use your [TS]

  intuition and to use these various kinds [TS]

  of you know known data to make decisions [TS]

  about how to proceed with this right [TS]

  you're more of a knowledge what kind of [TS]

  job which I'm not saying it's not again [TS]

  on this thing it's not difficult i'm not [TS]

  saying it's not you don't be smart to do [TS]

  it but in that case it's you know it's [TS]

  it's almost like it almost makes more [TS]

  sense when you go well you need to make [TS]

  two thousand dollars in traffic stop in [TS]

  in traffic fines tonight you know what I [TS]

  mean you know or think about the job [TS]

  somebody who's what we used to call a [TS]

  meter maid it's their job to go like [TS]

  make money for the government by giving [TS]

  people tickets and guys partly about the [TS]

  local merchants you know having a way to [TS]

  keep parking spaces open but that's that [TS]

  almost that kind of Sheriff of [TS]

  Nottingham approach almost makes more [TS]

  sense like we want we're gonna bust you [TS]

  missed you at the border with drugs [TS]

  because we want your speed boat like [TS]

  that stuff in a medieval way makes more [TS]

  sense in that case that guy could let [TS]

  you go by and it would be just less [TS]

  chance of danger in his life and less [TS]

  potential paperwork true and that's a [TS]

  different kind of bad cop you know [TS]

  that's the cliché of the [TS]

  doughnut-eating cop sitting in his car [TS]

  parked in front of a donut shop right [TS]

  the guy who sees a car speeding but he's [TS]

  like yeah there's no evidence that he [TS]

  didn't there's no evidence of his [TS]

  nonfeasance exactly so he's just like [TS]

  you know people are people or bad it's [TS]

  too much trouble right now to go chase [TS]

  that guy he's making a decision on his [TS]

  own behalf to a which is just to you [TS]

  know get paid to do nothing and that's a [TS]

  different kind of bad cop and then the [TS]

  meter maid I think it's just a job to [TS]

  those people you know like that's just [TS]

  they could be sitting they can be [TS]

  sitting at a desk at the DMV making the [TS]

  making life hard for people or they [TS]

  could be out you know they're that those [TS]

  are just jobs it is and it's I I feel [TS]

  really I feel really bad for those [TS]

  people that they are just you know they [TS]

  got they got a civil service job gotta [TS]

  go and do but you know but then on the [TS]

  other hand when you get a ticket you [TS]

  didn't really deserved you're like all [TS]

  of a sudden now the world's all [TS]

  different [TS]

  yeah you got a ticket when everyone's [TS]

  while you meet a meter maid who is like [TS]

  inhumanly gratified oh it's and that's [TS]

  why the DMV example is interesting it [TS]

  you know it again we're getting very [TS]

  much indeed like certain kind of [TS]

  middle-class stereotype but there is [TS]

  that stereotype of somebody who's like [TS]

  ready for you to treat them badly and [TS]

  who's like preemptively you know doing [TS]

  that stuff I got no beef you know we [TS]

  have a police station very near where I [TS]

  live and so we interact with cops logic [TS]

  cesium you know walk around going to the [TS]

  car and it is it strange that because [TS]

  there's they the the place near where I [TS]

  live the cops end up covering something [TS]

  like about a quarter or fifth of the [TS]

  city so they have to fan out over a very [TS]

  large area of western San Francisco [TS]

  yeah and it's just it's always weird to [TS]

  read something in the paper about like [TS]

  something that happened at not just our [TS]

  local police place but a place it's [TS]

  fairly near our house [TS]

  yeah it's a rare thing it's a weird [TS]

  thing to too because then you like [TS]

  that's so strange i can never think I [TS]

  don't [TS]

  I just think about those people as [TS]

  people going to work sometimes we hear [TS]

  sirens [TS]

  that's the way we are fortunate to feel [TS]

  very safe where we live there's cops [TS]

  walking her house all day long but but [TS]

  at the same time like its it is strange [TS]

  when you go like that's weird i don't [TS]

  tend to think of them as stereotypical [TS]

  like you know cops but that's you know [TS]

  for sure because that guy is taking it [TS]

  taking that risk he pulls over that car [TS]

  full of four guys and they are white [TS]

  supremacists and their cars are full of [TS]

  guns and they're on their way to you [TS]

  know to blow up a synagogue and there's [TS]

  a shootout in this this poor copies in [TS]

  the you know is in the firing zone well [TS]

  it's also it's also the this don't you [TS]

  call this but you know it's also like [TS]

  they're there is something that there [TS]

  might be something that cop could act on [TS]

  let's put it this way the person driving [TS]

  that car are riding in that car knows [TS]

  there's something that cop could act on [TS]

  now that could be a like a small bit of [TS]

  weed in your pocket [TS]

  mmm it could be now not worth killing a [TS]

  cop over let me tell you what we have [TS]

  but if you look at out there everybody [TS]

  on saying this is just how this how you [TS]

  getting these Fargo type situations is [TS]

  where you know there's one that one that [TS]

  may be one person the car's got we maybe [TS]

  nobody else knows that they have weed or [TS]

  whatever whatever insert a random drug [TS]

  and it could be that somebody's heart [TS]

  remembers there's a warrant outstanding [TS]

  warrant on them and you know what I mean [TS]

  there's that kind of stuff we're like [TS]

  they're these landmines waiting to have [TS]

  more nothing really happened that needed [TS]

  to be acted upon accept it as much as [TS]

  their this is part of law enforcement is [TS]

  doing that due diligence to you know [TS]

  Sadie's are drugs in here anything going [TS]

  to stab me you know we try to outrun you [TS]

  know so in that case like if our copy [TS]

  and I and I wouldn't be but like I would [TS]

  be real circumspect about deciding your [TS]

  end up watching fargo and i love the [TS]

  fact that that in this conversation you [TS]

  are going into your scott simpson [TS]

  register periodically did I ever tell [TS]

  you about that uh I've never watched the [TS]

  television show Fargo alright okay I've [TS]

  consumed the movie Fargo yeah the in the [TS]

  second season of that there's there's [TS]

  there's several very tense things [TS]

  involving like one cop and a lot of bad [TS]

  guys and where you've got to just keep [TS]

  the surface tension from breaking well [TS]

  and this is the thing i think it is the [TS]

  insight into the DMV question and the [TS]

  cop question which [TS]

  is that think of ninety percent of jobs [TS]

  you are dealing with a select group of [TS]

  people in the course of your day right [TS]

  if you work at an insurance agency you [TS]

  are dealing only with people who are [TS]

  seeking insurance and people who are in [TS]

  the insurance trade and if you are you [TS]

  know designing software even if you're [TS]

  talking on the phone to customer service [TS]

  people you are dealing with people who [TS]

  are using your selected product but cops [TS]

  and DMV people are there among the only [TS]

  people who deal with everybody and that [TS]

  you know they pull over big [TS]

  mercedes-benz's and they pull over cars [TS]

  that shouldn't be on the road and they [TS]

  pull over people who are like him a [TS]

  demographic demographically people who [TS]

  are insane people who are not insane [TS]

  people who are entitled people who are [TS]

  not entitled you know they pull over [TS]

  they talked to everyone and the DMV is [TS]

  very close to that to like everybody in [TS]

  our world gets the driver's license [TS]

  that's like that that's like the first [TS]

  thing you are allowed to do is hurdle [TS]

  down the road in a given a gas-fired [TS]

  captioning this episode of Roderick on [TS]

  the line is brought to you in part by [TS]

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  free domain to it also make sure to use [TS]

  the African supertrain when you checkout [TS]

  that's gonna get you ten percent off [TS]

  your first purchase if you're gonna love [TS]

  this place that the best so our thanks [TS]

  to squarespace for supporting runner on [TS]

  the line and all the great shows [TS]

  Squarespace build it beautiful like you [TS]

  are allowed to do that before you are [TS]

  allowed to do pretty much anything else [TS]

  and so so this tidal wave of everybody [TS]

  comes at you and I think in those [TS]

  positions and this is the thing week you [TS]

  know we walk up to that counter and were [TS]

  like hey I'm a normal person and I'm [TS]

  just having a day and hello and the [TS]

  personal encounters like name ID her [TS]

  card because they've already dealt with [TS]

  with such a wide scrum of people and I [TS]

  guess I i guess my experience out in the [TS]

  world is that there are so many people [TS]

  who are difficult to deal with for a [TS]

  variety of reasons difficulty with [TS]

  helping me in that what i like about [TS]

  your use of the word difficult there is [TS]

  it's not necessary that they're nasty [TS]

  it's not necessarily that they're [TS]

  hostile or it could just be that they're [TS]

  difficult to deal with because they [TS]

  don't know how to do what they're doing [TS]

  right now they don't know how to be at [TS]

  the DMV exactly what I mean they don't [TS]

  they don't understand maybe they could [TS]

  be language thing right it could be a [TS]

  financial thing like no sir I can't run [TS]

  this on three different cards there's [TS]

  all kinds of reasons didn't lot of [TS]

  people wouldn't think about about why [TS]

  this seemingly simple transaction can be [TS]

  confusing and you get you get them [TS]

  everyday it [TS]

  you know you know i said before my [TS]

  health job my whole job is to be the [TS]

  person in the TSA line who has to ask [TS]

  you to take the water out of your bag [TS]

  because you have to do that you have to [TS]

  ask people but no matter how many times [TS]

  you tell them i think still about 1 out [TS]

  of 10 people of water in the bag I've [TS]

  done it I sit [TS]

  it's always the person right in front of [TS]

  me you know the person that is that in [TS]

  its I'm sure everybody feels this way [TS]

  it's the person who appears to never [TS]

  have been an airport before this the [TS]

  first plane they've ever been on they go [TS]

  up to the security thing and go back to [TS]

  the back to their general arms they [TS]

  don't know what kind of stuff that's off [TS]

  the alarm they don't know how to ask the [TS]

  questions they're only open though [TS]

  there's a tsa guys who's been standing [TS]

  there saying the same thing 40 times an [TS]

  hour i think your bags out of your blab [TS]

  put your barbarian popular saving having [TS]

  a half but he's easy he's seen it all [TS]

  and like no matter he or she and no [TS]

  matter how often they tell you the signs [TS]

  are there everybody knows this stuff [TS]

  should know this stuff at this point [TS]

  he's traveling but it's a hell job [TS]

  because there's still no it's the [TS]

  ultimate Sisyphean job and in some ways [TS]

  that's a little bit with the DMV would [TS]

  have to be like nobody's happy to be [TS]

  there except that you know that's the [TS]

  incredible thing just I mean the airport [TS]

  is one of those one of those experiences [TS]

  that we all share where it's like oh my [TS]

  god I'm in the mass of humanity here and [TS]

  the TSA is the choke point where you [TS]

  know the faster people cannot get [TS]

  through a system faster the competent [TS]

  people cannot get through more [TS]

  confidently and yet that is even a [TS]

  select group of people that have a [TS]

  reason to fly on a plane you know [TS]

  there's a built-in you-know-who not [TS]

  quite a bias but people who have [TS]

  traveled a lot are necessarily people [TS]

  who can afford to travel a lot right [TS]

  when what what is the percentage of I [TS]

  mean I met so many people in the world [TS]

  who have never been 15 miles from the [TS]

  village they were born it let alone ever [TS]

  do you know what I mean they've never [TS]

  been here let alone having a first-hand [TS]

  impression about a certain terminal at [TS]

  LAX and how it's changed over 20 years [TS]

  think about that for a minute yeah my [TS]

  things are going to bad in your life if [TS]

  you can be angry about a terminal [TS]

  connector what the hell they change the [TS]

  carpet God you know they change the [TS]

  carpet in the Portland area really gross [TS]

  there though [TS]

  well of the LAX [TS]

  come on they could do a better job but [TS]

  like Portland Airport change their [TS]

  carpet within the last year and I heard [TS]

  by heard about it more than i'm sure [TS]

  people heard about the moon landing [TS]

  what happened you know just people like [TS]

  oh my god how are we supposed to deal [TS]

  with this carpet that something so this [TS]

  is really ugly carpet everybody always [TS]

  hated until they decided it was cool [TS]

  yeah i'm going to say you know till it [TS]

  since it is it's it's yeah thats people [TS]

  are funny like that we we need things to [TS]

  be the melancholy about you know I just [TS]

  took a couple of airplane just recently [TS]

  did they know I took them yeah I've got [TS]

  them now they're i'm not giving them [TS]

  back for me they had three the whip but [TS]

  but you know what time to argue [TS]

  what did I tell you that I was that i [TS]

  received silver medallions tanks [TS]

  well wow how was the ceremony was a [TS]

  division meeting family along i did get [TS]

  a certificate [TS]

  it was a virtual selected to me now [TS]

  today but they've gone [TS]

  Morgan Roderick has achieved soon [TS]

  medallion status for his ability to sit [TS]

  on a plane for over 25,000 miles [TS]

  hear ye hear ye hear ye oh oh yeah so I [TS]

  got some Italian started a status and my [TS]

  more well-traveled friends one of whom [TS]

  is consistently a has a gold status my [TS]

  friend Jason Finn had a nickname what we [TS]

  have for many years he was just he was [TS]

  called Goldmember dad because because [TS]

  when he traveled he was obsessed with [TS]

  his his mileage plans and for many years [TS]

  it's like a version of sports for some [TS]

  people it is but he was in the famous [TS]

  band uh president the united states of [TS]

  america who routinely flew to europe and [TS]

  asia and australia and just going for a [TS]

  weekend sometime say they would they [TS]

  would fly to Belgium play it play Big [TS]

  Show fly home you know they leave hunt [TS]

  friday be back on Sunday [TS]

  which was bananas to me but you know [TS]

  they were paid very handsomely [TS]

  but the thing is they would fly to [TS]

  Australia and Jason would be in first [TS]

  class and the rest of his band and crew [TS]

  would be in coach and it's not that they [TS]

  didn't all it's not that they could [TS]

  involve in goldmember's it's just that [TS]

  the other guys didn't bother to do the [TS]

  paperwork and obsess over the over that [TS]

  little bit of saving up your credits [TS]

  right and so they get on the plane and [TS]

  his bandmates were rightfully furious [TS]

  but Jason would be like well then [TS]

  manager manager miles and the thing is [TS]

  Jason appointed himself to be the [TS]

  traveled a coordinator for his band so [TS]

  he made sure that they always flew on [TS]

  the airlines that he was interested in [TS]

  collecting miles on you know he had a [TS]

  whole plan a project and I and I think [TS]

  he he i could paraded his bandmates you [TS]

  should do this you should do this and [TS]

  that you know and they just felt like it [TS]

  was beneath their dignity but anyway I [TS]

  so i have several friends who are gold [TS]

  members but then I also have one famous [TS]

  friend that you and I both know who has [TS]

  just achieved dymond status haha [TS]

  judgment [TS]

  yeah he was platinum for a long time and [TS]

  then he be whenever he actually made a [TS]

  specious cross-country trip for no other [TS]

  reason than to achieve diamond status at [TS]

  the very end of the year it was just [TS]

  like well you're only 5,000 miles away [TS]

  from diamond status and he was like [TS]

  alright I'm fly somebody in Portland was [TS]

  like I'll give you fifty fifty dollars [TS]

  to show up for the opening of this [TS]

  bottle of wine and and jon was like you [TS]

  know what I'll do it just to achieve so [TS]

  now he's diamond students and so I you [TS]

  know spy rope i wrote an email i have [TS]

  element to a few people I was like I [TS]

  just got Silver's datas look at me [TS]

  and I got back all these condescending [TS]

  emails [TS]

  congratulations i hope you know that [TS]

  silver status accord you nothing you [TS]

  know there was seriously like it was [TS]

  like The Dukes and Earls were [TS]

  congratulating somebody that got an MBE [TS]

  like the lowest grade would be like it [TS]

  would be like telling like a Rothschild [TS]

  you just bought stock [TS]

  yeah I got some star gotta stock hey [TS]

  look at me and so I got all this kind of [TS]

  all this like shade thrown at me about [TS]

  my silver status like oh great silver [TS]

  status you know they just give that to [TS]

  you to like to like get you on the hook [TS]

  so that's exactly the first big payout [TS]

  of the night on nickel slots [TS]

  uh-huh it's like this will keep him here [TS]

  for a while because now now that thing [TS]

  is it it's a little bit of how do you [TS]

  refer to it as a white white ribbon is [TS]

  that what you call it [TS]

  oh well yeah i would call it the white [TS]

  ribbon that's right the way you've got [TS]

  the white ribbon to the console you know [TS]

  it's it's either the third-place finish [TS]

  or in some cases the participation the [TS]

  participation i think is standard coach [TS]

  but I mean white you know really maybe [TS]

  it's like getting a sixth-place rabbit [TS]

  was like I didn't know they made ribbon [TS]

  for its but somebody had to take the [TS]

  time to figure out I'd like tied for [TS]

  sixth yeah it's the brown ribbon it's [TS]

  right but I mean it's like even when I [TS]

  kinda hate talking about airplanes [TS]

  you've got to stop but like I for me [TS]

  like uh I mean even being in that [TS]

  business class or first but like when [TS]

  you get like the priority boarding and [TS]

  like you paid to get in like they know [TS]

  for me that's if I can afford it when I [TS]

  flyer something else is paying for me [TS]

  that's always virgins main cabin select [TS]

  right which is great [TS]

  it's so great because it's already it's [TS]

  very close to business class or at first [TS]

  it's so great to get all the free TV get [TS]

  all the free food you get all the free [TS]

  alcohol you get a nice big chair to sit [TS]

  in but chairs on engine and typically [TS]

  you are then seated next to someone who [TS]

  also understands not to talk to you [TS]

  yeah absolutely United you a very very [TS]

  quick polite greeting at the beginning [TS]

  and then you you maybe something after [TS]

  the wheels hit the runway [TS]

  no I totally agree you stare at your [TS]

  device maybe we'll get somebody they [TS]

  don't get somebody with a large pizza [TS]

  and 200 papers to grade [TS]

  haha i'll never forget this woman this [TS]

  woman walked into the middle seat with a [TS]

  pizza that was larger than her [TS]

  why uh so but then the thing is it's [TS]

  with all these statuses and it's [TS]

  hilarious i'm sure there's been a [TS]

  million stand-up it's about this but all [TS]

  the status is where you start with like [TS]

  you know military people in uniform and [TS]

  people disabilities kids and then you go [TS]

  through like it's hilarious to me there [TS]

  must be like six different statuses [TS]

  million milers then diamond-- then ya [TS]

  gotta be gotta you know what I'm trying [TS]

  to think on on some of you guys always [TS]

  something like international class path [TS]

  slide number so there's the highest [TS]

  level and then you go through all the [TS]

  different metals at and it's incredible [TS]

  because like even we paid to have the [TS]

  earlier seating it what you really [TS]

  gotten is you are the people who board [TS]

  right before the the bad people who get [TS]

  there extra you know that that first 40 [TS]

  people on the plane that are all those [TS]

  statuses are also the people that know [TS]

  how to get on an airplane they know that [TS]

  they're all carrying small bags if you [TS]

  notice [TS]

  usually you know there's very few [TS]

  billion a lot of leakage back into the [TS]

  larger bag that is really there's that [TS]

  that's happening that's that's chronic [TS]

  right but now but you're not going to [TS]

  see somebody with with platinum status [TS]

  that's carrying loose fruit that's [TS]

  carrying a butt like a huge huge bag [TS]

  another huge bag on top of it then an [TS]

  accordion in its case and then a monkey [TS]

  and you know and then a huge bag of [TS]

  monkey chow the airline said the monkey [TS]

  consider my life with talking about [TS]

  though it's a service monkey it's in lab [TS]

  monkey [TS]

  anyway the point of the point of this [TS]

  every day that a pizza right the order [TS]

  canada tuna fish is yellow you up pizza [TS]

  and take-out playing my god i I've done [TS]

  it [TS]

  Oh Jonathan airport one time I was like [TS]

  wait a minute you'll sell me an entire [TS]

  pizza and they were like yes and I was [TS]

  like sold this is that is such a hate [TS]

  crime [TS]

  no I took it on the plane and I was like [TS]

  well we got a pizza in the people next [TS]

  we were like oh my god I was like are [TS]

  you kidding me everything on a piece [TS]

  everything smells so much worse on a [TS]

  plane what is because it mingles with [TS]

  the parts of the air conditioning is it [TS]

  the long tube is not gonna let that [TS]

  escaping simply says brings a fucking [TS]

  hoagie on [TS]

  listen you know the guy next to me is [TS]

  probably took his shoes off you know and [TS]

  there it was just like I've got a pizza [TS]

  is [TS]

  it was one of the few moments I got on a [TS]

  plane and I turned into like a like a [TS]

  four-year-old monkey right like I was [TS]

  just like I have pizza haha hey boss man [TS]

  in any case yes so back to silver status [TS]

  out five of the six flights I've taken [TS]

  since i got silver status five five out [TS]

  of the six I was upgraded to first class [TS]

  what as a silver status is unheard of [TS]

  for free just I get to the airport i'm [TS]

  i'm i'm walking in you know of course i [TS]

  have pre-check because I must thank you [TS]

  know your stance on no no no I wouldn't [TS]

  fly united if the world had come to an [TS]

  end and they were the only flight and it [TS]

  was a flight away from erupting volcano [TS]

  found to see your daughter out of the [TS]

  Apocalypse there's what's he left once [TS]

  he left no you i will die here in the [TS]

  lava flow before i get our unit she's [TS]

  like it not me [TS]

  no no we all die we all die ok whatever [TS]

  like they're like jet airline you know I [TS]

  don't want to give free advertising to [TS]

  some stupid airline I think they're all [TS]

  garbage but i don't have people listen [TS]

  the show jon was fucking airline is it [TS]

  haha i fly delta well no they're [TS]

  terrible they're all terrible but Delta [TS]

  so anyway Jason Finn sends me he sends [TS]

  me he's like when he realizes that i'm [TS]

  interested in this stuff because and [TS]

  what got me interested frankly couple [TS]

  years ago I did 50 flights in a year and [TS]

  I just was i was going online and just [TS]

  picking flights based on how cheap they [TS]

  were and then I flew to Africa with [TS]

  jonathan coulton yeah right who got [TS]

  upgraded across the ocean and SAT up [TS]

  there basically pouring glasses of free [TS]

  wine on the carpet [TS]

  he can get up slave while i was back in [TS]

  coach you know uh well which was a you [TS]

  know which was like but like Tatooine [TS]

  and then we get to Paris and Jonathan [TS]

  gets upgraded on an air france flight [TS]

  229 me needs air [TS]

  there ain't no upgrade like an air [TS]

  france upgrade we're just like you get [TS]

  the what and he's like as part of the [TS]

  fuckin star alliance or whatever see you [TS]

  later dork and went up there and was [TS]

  basically I mean it when he was [TS]

  basically like in an apology hat hitting [TS]

  people over the head with a loaf of [TS]

  French bread with and I think you know [TS]

  and i'm back in coach on a flight on an [TS]

  air france flight and it's just like [TS]

  okay all right well there are two [TS]

  banthas down there [TS]

  what's it that's right that's right i [TS]

  had my it doesn't like you I don't like [TS]

  you either just one good sir [TS]

  when he get out of France yeah give me a [TS]

  break you just watch yourself because [TS]

  couple yeah it's like it's like the guy [TS]

  that makes eyeballs in Blade Runner not [TS]

  the guy that makes eyeballs because it [TS]

  tells him where to get the guy that [TS]

  makes eyeballs haha the guy the guy in [TS]

  the cold room that one guy that's in [TS]

  everything that's right [TS]

  what's his name should know his name he [TS]

  isn't everything inside until he's the [TS]

  he's the 10 minutes 5 10 minutes [TS]

  mm because the best anyway i'll cut this [TS]

  up in a cage really want a Celine and [TS]

  JAC just moved in Apalachee hat [TS]

  yeah so then i get back to America and I [TS]

  run in Jason Finn my close friend and [TS]

  adviser and consigliere and I say Jason [TS]

  with the hell [TS]

  jonathan coulton smugly flew all the way [TS]

  across the world like just just content [TS]

  in it and with his fucking i went to [TS]

  Yale card in his wallet so he feels like [TS]

  that's all just part of its all what he [TS]

  deserves you-know-who and I'm like how [TS]

  do i what am I supposed to do and jason [TS]

  said first mistake you fly on whatever [TS]

  airline you need to you need to pick an [TS]

  airline and stick with it [TS]

  second mistake don't make the don't make [TS]

  the second mistake and he sent me a long [TS]

  he sent me these links to websites where [TS]

  people talk about their mileage plans I [TS]

  stood in one of these people there are [TS]

  websites where people do nothing but [TS]

  rate airline mileage plans [TS]

  yeah and the consensus is the Delta has [TS]

  the best one even though it's not as [TS]

  good as it used to be even though they [TS]

  change the carpet in the portland [TS]

  airport like it's like being dropped [TS]

  into the nicest oubliette [TS]

  oh this is much less moist in the other [TS]

  one but I i only have to wipe off my [TS]

  glasses every every 20 minutes early [TS]

  human shit into coordinates 0 5 stars so [TS]

  so i signed up for it anyway so now I'm [TS]

  you know in high hodgman and colder also [TS]

  on delta and so Hodgman all the time he [TS]

  loves to take me into the Delta Sky [TS]

  Lounge in various airports and we go [TS]

  into the delta sky lounge which is not a [TS]

  place I would go under any circumstances [TS]

  if i was living in an airport and I had [TS]

  if I was one of those people who was in [TS]

  immigration status where I had to live [TS]

  in JFK for a year I would rather sleep [TS]

  in front of us borrows then ever go into [TS]

  a delta sky lounge it's just like the [TS]

  most hateful place you're surrounded by [TS]

  like just that could that creepy class [TS]

  of young people that they're just there [TS]

  there there so.there swaddled in [TS]

  privilege and they're just so happy to [TS]

  eat like fucking cookies out of those [TS]

  little cupcake things like eating a free [TS]

  bagel and a banana and they're just [TS]

  gonna refill their fucking coffee [TS]

  yes it's like Rose was like a coffee [TS]

  machine and some bananas you know and [TS]

  and and some copy of copies of [TS]

  Businessweek like creating this but the [TS]

  people are the worst then it's so bad [TS]

  and hard-nosed they are he so he takes [TS]

  me in there we sit in the comfortable [TS]

  chairs and we look around and then it's [TS]

  just one of those situations like look [TS]

  at that asshole [TS]

  oh my God look at this all coming in [TS]

  here just like oh my god this is awful [TS]

  but he loves to be in there and he loves [TS]

  to bring me in there and so anyway so [TS]

  I'm silver status and I'm just thinking [TS]

  like wacko wacko right and then I get [TS]

  upgraded to first class five out of six [TS]

  times and I feel like that's unheard of [TS]

  Jason I so I roll over on my belly and [TS]

  I'm like Delta stroke my tummy [TS]

  you know like I completely surrender all [TS]

  my dignity and now i'm sitting in the [TS]

  departure lounge i'm looking up at the [TS]

  little screen and it's just like my name [TS]

  is on the list my name is you know my [TS]

  three-letter yeah representation of my [TS]

  name is up there and then [TS]

  that I come up to the gate and I'm like [TS]

  come on Chabad couple i did you grow up [TS]

  here i am j rod [TS]

  hello hello come on come on come on [TS]

  they're like thing and now all of a [TS]

  sudden I'm sitting up front and I got a [TS]

  golden take a happy people are nice to [TS]

  me but the problem is on the last flight [TS]

  the woman next to me discovered that I [TS]

  was from Wales I don't know how I don't [TS]

  you know I don't know what happened but [TS]

  I was just a I let it slip out that my [TS]

  people were from Wales right okay she [TS]

  was speaking with an accent and I can't [TS]

  resist when someone speaking with an [TS]

  accent hello and now you open the door [TS]

  naked talk about whales [TS]

  yeah I can't I can't I can't resist [TS]

  being like so are you from likely blank [TS]

  like it's just I can't stop myself right [TS]

  so are you from Sumatra and it's just [TS]

  this thing where I look at them and i'm [TS]

  just guessing [TS]

  I just want to guess where they're from [TS]

  my one and i want to be i first of all I [TS]

  want to guess whether from second of all [TS]

  I want to be right because when you're [TS]

  right and the person is like how did you [TS]

  know I was from Sumatra most people [TS]

  don't even know about that that exists [TS]

  tonight and then you just like well i am [TS]

  the most interesting man in the world so [TS]

  I know where patterns on your elbow I [TS]

  can tell exactly so I you know so I so I [TS]

  guess she's from Bristol and i'm wrong [TS]

  and then it turns out she's from Cardiff [TS]

  and I'm like oh and I for a brief second [TS]

  i sustain the possibility that this is [TS]

  going to be an interesting conversation [TS]

  even agent Don you this is a terrible [TS]

  idea [TS]

  yeah and then you know and pretty soon [TS]

  she's talking to me about her graduate [TS]

  thesis and I'm that she obviously did 35 [TS]

  years ago and it was on the universality [TS]

  of religions which normally would be an [TS]

  interesting topic to me but in this [TS]

  particular circumstance it was it was [TS]

  not enjoyable and I and I ended up being [TS]

  I ended up being the the rude person [TS]

  that I never a.m. [TS]

  which is that I I was like I've got to [TS]

  go to the bathroom when I didn't got up [TS]

  and went to the bathroom made myself go [TS]

  and then came back and immediately [TS]

  started doing the crossword in the end [TS]

  inflight magazine yeah and you know and [TS]

  I could feel I could feel for a moment a [TS]

  little bit of of pregnancy between us [TS]

  where she was like are we not going to [TS]

  resume the conversation about my [TS]

  master's thesis for my graduate thesis [TS]

  right and I was like four letter word [TS]

  for Tatooine so awkward because there [TS]

  are some people that I i'm always amazed [TS]

  because I I get very introverted on a [TS]

  flight i dunno i mean i know i'm happy [TS]

  to talk to be unique be gracious and say [TS]

  thank you things like that but like I do [TS]

  not want to give any signal that i would [TS]

  like to have a conversation that has no [TS]

  clear end to it right there are people [TS]

  there are some people i don't know why [TS]

  but I mean like you know it's i don't [TS]

  know i'm already someone edge but like [TS]

  some people really really want to talk [TS]

  on a plane because they're nervous you [TS]

  think well maybe because it just makes [TS]

  this an exciting thing for them maybe [TS]

  they're excited to be on the plane [TS]

  perfect they want to talk all the time i [TS]

  mean i think that there are lots and [TS]

  lots of people that just that want to [TS]

  talk you know I i I've been thinking a [TS]

  lot about this lately that they're you [TS]

  know we talked about emotional [TS]

  intelligence and intellectual [TS]

  intelligence and and only only recently [TS]

  I think have people even gotten [TS]

  comfortable talking about emotional [TS]

  intelligence there was intelligence and [TS]

  then it was at and it was presumed that [TS]

  emotions were the opposite of [TS]

  intelligence right i mean when i was a [TS]

  kid or even until recently emotional [TS]

  reactions emotional behavior was like [TS]

  whoa whoa you know why are you having an [TS]

  emotional reaction you should be [TS]

  reasonable and rational here i think [TS]

  there are tons and tons of people that [TS]

  still believe that that emotion is [TS]

  unpredictable unreliable and the [TS]

  opposite of being smart but there are a [TS]

  lot of us that now are able to talk [TS]

  about an emotional intelligence which is [TS]

  different and [TS]

  compatible with intellectual [TS]

  intelligence and any I think part of [TS]

  emotional intelligence is not just being [TS]

  intelligent your emotions but other [TS]

  people that's our daughters access the [TS]

  real intelligence a hundred percent but [TS]

  but the ability to the ability to [TS]

  transact and converse in the world of [TS]

  emotion without feeling like it's [TS]

  strange or or a you know that that that [TS]

  was as is invalid or danger is outright [TS]

  that my immigrant when my good friend [TS]

  Mike Squires once said to me [TS]

  emotions are real and we stared at each [TS]

  other in that moment and I was like it [TS]

  was lightning bolt like my cot emotions [TS]

  are real and he was like emotions are [TS]

  real said it three or four times it was [TS]

  like it was like Robin was talking to [TS]

  matt damon emotions are real emotions [TS]

  are real until I started crying and I [TS]

  was like wow emotions are real emotions [TS]

  are real emotions are real [TS]

  Wow but i've just recently started to [TS]

  think about a kind of physical [TS]

  intelligence of physical that this [TS]

  physicality that we see in people that [TS]

  is not just a gift in terms of I can [TS]

  jump i can run fast I can dance well but [TS]

  it's actually a way of expressing [TS]

  oneself that that they that they need to [TS]

  do it in some cases is their primary [TS]

  language and there and when they're [TS]

  unable to express themselves physically [TS]

  they are you know they're hampered and [TS]

  this is the thing that I was also [TS]

  contemptuous of you know like it's just [TS]

  they're just a jock right just somebody [TS]

  that fucking wants to dance like when [TS]

  are they going to sit down so that we [TS]

  can get real and it was my lack of [TS]

  understanding that that was as real as [TS]

  it got for them this you know the [TS]

  physical expression it's not you know [TS]

  and i think part of the part of my [TS]

  prejudice is that the physical temporal [TS]

  material world seems [TS]

  less lesser than the psycho-spiritual [TS]

  world who um but you know the material [TS]

  world is all we've got our bodies are [TS]

  all we have [TS]

  so I'm just trying to learn I'm trying [TS]

  to study that and learn it and it's part [TS]

  of having empathy for even more people [TS]

  and realizing that some of the behaviors [TS]

  that I think some of the behaviors that [TS]

  that annoy me are actually someone [TS]

  else's language and I should stop being [TS]

  annoyed and start listening to them [TS]

  that's good [TS]

  it's weird it's a good one because you [TS]

  look at him and you know and it's just [TS]

  like stop spazzing or or you know like [TS]

  stop being so good at dancing and and in [TS]

  fact it's you know it's how they it's [TS]

  how they're trying to communicate so i [TS]

  don't and i still this is still [TS]

  experimental for me you know but it but [TS]

  it seems but it seems right and [TS]

  sometimes you get you get seated next to [TS]

  somebody like that on an airplane and [TS]

  and you know they're using spoken [TS]

  language and it's already a second [TS]

  language to them because what they [TS]

  really want to be doing is dancing or [TS]

  throwing a football or it you know [TS]

  expressing expressing this whole [TS]

  physicality as a primary language yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah what kind of what kind of [TS]

  place do you see that to mean obviously [TS]

  would be a dancer a dancer somebody that [TS]

  you know somebody that is hyper in shape [TS]

  because I and i'm thinking more here of [TS]

  the gross movements of the body rather [TS]

  than the final ones like I'm not sure [TS]

  that being good at life drawing you know [TS]

  i think that's that's a different kind [TS]

  of thing we're talking about we're [TS]

  talking about people who do big [TS]

  movements gymnast but you know the [TS]

  dancers are interesting because it's so [TS]

  athletic but also so very expressive [TS]

  right right right i mean it is but but [TS]

  but there but I guess that's the thing [TS]

  like dance we can we can see right it is [TS]

  a language is a language of dance well I [TS]

  mean I its and could be eating you can [TS]

  get stuff like my my guess and stuff [TS]

  like that but I I'm just [TS]

  talking about like there's all the stuff [TS]

  that we think about as like the [TS]

  applications of intelligent people all [TS]

  the stuff like all the knowledge work [TS]

  jobs and creating jobs right so writing [TS]

  it's writing as an example with this [TS]

  writing music writing prose in a non [TS]

  fiction fiction but in the case of [TS]

  dancing its that's very interesting [TS]

  because the only way to really get [TS]

  dancing is to dance [TS]

  I mean yes obviously you can also write [TS]

  about dancing you could do movies about [TS]

  dancing but its experience about [TS]

  architecture you can dance if you want [TS]

  to and some junkies talked about a lot [TS]

  with video games is like it's not Marlon [TS]

  I was just recently a identically [TS]

  instructed on how to pronounce Sarek [TS]

  user yeah i like to get into it so [TS]

  they're accusing into it and sell oh uh [TS]

  these words cannot collide applied but [TS]

  like with him [TS]

  I still can't get it right but take out [TS]

  the coos you gotta get this year no [TS]

  kudos and no clues that we don't want to [TS]

  hear my whole life I've been trying to [TS]

  take out the cool huh [TS]

  so take out the crews take out the kids [TS]

  bro [TS]

  what was I saying yes so in his case [TS]

  like I you know interested in video [TS]

  games and playing very gently with some [TS]

  video games but you know my God look [TS]

  there's some of these run really [TS]

  interested in the story of it where I [TS]

  want to just watch people play it like a [TS]

  movie and he's like that's the thing the [TS]

  video game is not a movie like it looks [TS]

  like a movie but when you're playing at [TS]

  the the experience of playing one of [TS]

  these very immersive video games is very [TS]

  very different [TS]

  I can't understand that because i [TS]

  haven't played them and exit don't know [TS]

  how to play them just as I can [TS]

  understand that dance is its own [TS]

  language of expression even though I [TS]

  can't dance so a video game is not a [TS]

  movie it's more like a masturbation hole [TS]

  in a wall [TS]

  no oh that's funny but no it's not i [TS]

  don't even think it's funny that I'm [TS]

  just trying to get angry letters because [TS]

  I had such a good time last week so [TS]

  don't be angry letters but what I was [TS]

  gonna do [TS]

  yeah i think the 61st understand John [TS]

  you you you made a distinction just now [TS]

  about gross motor skills versus fine but [TS]

  when I think about the really best [TS]

  surgeons you know there is we think of [TS]

  them as as knowledge workers right there [TS]

  they're good at science and happen to [TS]

  have access to a scalpel yeah they're [TS]

  they're highly highly educated and so we [TS]

  admire them but really what sets [TS]

  brilliant surgeons apart is the [TS]

  physicality their ability to do Micro [TS]

  Micro stuff with their hands and about [TS]

  the duration of having to stand there [TS]

  and do like open-heart surgery for 4-6 [TS]

  hours of right so so it's really their [TS]

  their natural gift in their body when [TS]

  combined with their education that makes [TS]

  them so gifted and that's the you know [TS]

  it may be that there they are actually [TS]

  people who express themselves in [TS]

  physicality or super good you know [TS]

  draftsman you know it it is a it is a [TS]

  physical talent that has been honed into [TS]

  a skill by practicing education just as [TS]

  just as leaping high or a putting on [TS]

  putting on a gold crown and and leaping [TS]

  high she if she wants right so this [TS]

  thing i did officially might think i'm [TS]

  making is that did you know if you think [TS]

  about it like a Venn diagram like a very [TS]

  very complex and diagram there's all [TS]

  these different kinds of skills that are [TS]

  involved we can arbitrarily put into [TS]

  these different areas even though [TS]

  there's lots of overflow you know there [TS]

  are some kinds of things and this could [TS]

  even get into the knee high [TS]

  csikszentmihalyi idea of flow well hello [TS]

  will just say it's a selection of a [TS]

  stroke [TS]

  nope nope talked about a lot of [TS]

  different places but he's this guy [TS]

  writes a lot about creativity and what [TS]

  he calls flow and he's created this is [TS]

  very interesting matrix of you could [TS]

  pick up the y axis as the level of [TS]

  challenge and the x axis as little skill [TS]

  so suddenly that you are that you find [TS]

  not very challenging and that you don't [TS]

  aren't very good at you that causes [TS]

  apathy whereas for example something [TS]

  where you have a very high level of [TS]

  challenge and very low level skill that [TS]

  produces anxiety so think about you [TS]

  attacking your mp3's that's a task that [TS]

  has a very low level of challenge but a [TS]

  very high level of skill and realizing [TS]

  that's a crossword puzzle [TS]

  what is on tagging your mp3's [TS]

  tagging technically you know the way you [TS]

  like to do your mp3 metadata back in the [TS]

  day or like a crossword puzzle we did I [TS]

  never did that [TS]

  o Allah nice try buddy i remember when [TS]

  you got your first laptop you spent a [TS]

  long time making sure the metadata was [TS]

  right [TS]

  wow ok alright metadata all right okay [TS]

  yes you got me no no but it's also it [TS]

  could be anything it could be like you [TS]

  know sometimes when you have a job and [TS]

  you're sick of the kind of slow thinking [TS]

  work that you have to do like you want [TS]

  something really monkey brain it's nice [TS]

  to go read your file now what I do is I [TS]

  go into my contacts [TS]

  oh god I go through my contacts with the [TS]

  with a comb so often when i'm sitting in [TS]

  someplace boring where I don't have [TS]

  service and you never will never run out [TS]

  of that relaxing exercise know what I'm [TS]

  gonna do I'm gonna scare me to go to my [TS]

  contacts and I'm gonna figure out all [TS]

  the things that aren't courage and all [TS]

  those people never duplicated Reverend [TS]

  or a brother or its anyway but that [TS]

  thing I'm just saying that connects and [TS]

  so in his example two semis example so [TS]

  then where you're highly challenge but [TS]

  highly skilled produces a flow state and [TS]

  that's where you don't have to think [TS]

  about what you're doing real right i [TS]

  mean where you may be thinking about it [TS]

  but you lose track of time I think about [TS]

  when you really get your groove on with [TS]

  like doing something with a song and you [TS]

  kind of like you disappear into it and [TS]

  yeah so anyway this guy's like the only [TS]

  thing Merlin that I'm really highly [TS]

  skilled that is going through my [TS]

  contacts with a comb [TS]

  i mean i don't really i cannot think of [TS]

  another thing okay i mean you know i [TS]

  said i said at home sometimes and [TS]

  separate tie tacks into little boxes [TS]

  ok now what level of challenges that is [TS]

  that low medium or high [TS]

  no I mean it's it is I feel like em boy [TS]

  that's a good question because if it's [TS]

  if it's a highly skilled with a medium [TS]

  level of challenge that's that produces [TS]

  the feeling of control [TS]

  that's right you know what there's no [TS]

  challenge to it it's just pleasurable [TS]

  that's relaxing better [TS]

  you're right now what do i do that is [TS]

  super challenging that I have a high [TS]

  level of skill let's go through these so [TS]

  for a high level of challenge if it's a [TS]

  very high level of challenge and you [TS]

  have a medium amount of skill that's [TS]

  arousal that's like oh I can do this boo [TS]

  and whereas again if you have a low [TS]

  level of skill that's anxiety [TS]

  how about that here's one if you have a [TS]

  medium level of skill and you have a low [TS]

  level of challenge that's boredom [TS]

  so you go from apathy to board them to [TS]

  relaxation anyone how higher skill is [TS]

  you know what it is i have had an [TS]

  interesting concept it is i have a high [TS]

  level of skill and a high level of [TS]

  challenge diagnosing other people's [TS]

  problems that gives you flow you got the [TS]

  flow i really have some flow and when [TS]

  that gets going it's going really well [TS]

  with my life and I'm like tell me more [TS]

  about your life and then they tell you [TS]

  and you're like hmm ok it's like [TS]

  dangling porkchop and for a wolf ok [TS]

  let's get started here so let me ask you [TS]

  a few questions i love that shit it's [TS]

  just like oh I just I get into this [TS]

  thing where I feel like I'm iceskating [TS]

  the Olympics so I just wanted so this [TS]

  does those kinds of things to qualify [TS]

  that what kind of job is this what your [TS]

  skills but then the the distinction the [TS]

  biggest distinction i was making in my [TS]

  head and I can't think of many to fit [TS]

  this is in order to produce the thing [TS]

  that you produce primarily with your job [TS]

  doesn't require any large muscle group [TS]

  apart from the gluteus right so you [TS]

  might have to move some office supplies [TS]

  around but mostly even if you're an [TS]

  architect you're mostly like you know [TS]

  you're using finer finer skills you're [TS]

  not using your shoulders that much right [TS]

  i mean units that i'm trying to get [TS]

  stuff besides dance and construction [TS]

  work like what are some other kinds of [TS]

  jobs where the primary thing that you do [TS]

  I mean how many jobs are the primary [TS]

  thing you do requires the coordination [TS]

  of large muscle groups that isn't like a [TS]

  blue-collar job how many yoga [TS]

  instructors are there little that's true [TS]

  there are there are there are two [TS]

  thousand yoga instructors for every [TS]

  3,000 people that's mandated certainly [TS]

  the other council certainly in the world [TS]

  that I live in at whenever somebody like [TS]

  whenever somebody's going through a life [TS]

  change right become a yoga instructor [TS]

  and you get audited by the other counsel [TS]

  you account for the council did you [TS]

  notice I'm carrying that then I did I [TS]

  ever tell you about the time I was in [TS]

  her book vancouver hotel room [TS]

  and I was laying in bed and I turn on [TS]

  the television and the channel that the [TS]

  cable was on i think it might have even [TS]

  been the maybe ice maybe I click the [TS]

  button once to get off of the hotel [TS]

  yeah they're all about the way too loud [TS]

  all about the hotel stay on being that [TS]

  are welcome to the black hotel so I [TS]

  clean reading is available till 11pm try [TS]

  our spa would you like to wear a watch [TS]

  an adult movie hot stone massage so i [TS]

  clicked on that I click on the button [TS]

  once and it immediately went to the yoga [TS]

  channel which I had never seen and I [TS]

  believe may be exclusive to Canada and [TS]

  so I was like yoga channel let's see [TS]

  what this is about and I laid back on my [TS]

  pillow while this woman did yoga and [TS]

  then it was clearly her she was [TS]

  narrating her yoga practice but but you [TS]

  know like an overdub her so as she did [TS]

  the yoga she was also describing what [TS]

  she was doing but but you couldn't see [TS]

  her mouth move because she was consumed [TS]

  by the yoga and she had a physicality [TS]

  that was unbelievable like the her [TS]

  flexibility and her the ability to do [TS]

  these yoga's and I watched for [TS]

  half-an-hour completely like drawn in [TS]

  who in a in a sense like what is she [TS]

  going to do next right [TS]

  like is she going to thread herself [TS]

  through the eye of a needle is this the [TS]

  path tab what you know is she doing [TS]

  permanent damage to herself she doesn't [TS]

  appear she looks very blissed-out and [TS]

  the thing was that her her narration was [TS]

  constant and by the tone of her voice [TS]

  and by her narration I knew that she was [TS]

  not going through the eye of a needle [TS]

  into heaven because I found her annoying [TS]

  and I'm sure God would to ever [TS]

  yeah but Wow a fantastic expression of [TS]

  like physical communication [TS]

  so that was probably the other ones too [TS]

  i guess in some ways being a trainer or [TS]

  coach would be another one is not that [TS]

  many you know performing or visual arts [TS]

  that require big muscles but I mean a [TS]

  footballer a baseball sure basketballer [TS]

  rockier hockey as they say in the DA [TS]

  write a a mean all of the sporters and [TS]

  then I even a racecar driver [TS]

  oh sure accounts that's that's pretty [TS]

  good supposedly pretty grueling you're [TS]

  just sitting there you know you're not [TS]

  riding the car you're driving it [TS]

  that's right and so tell me what do you [TS]

  think about skyscraper window washer uh [TS]

  well it's an interesting job to me right [TS]

  because you have to have a native i [TS]

  think a native ability to get up there [TS]

  on that scaffold and not and not be [TS]

  wearing adult diapers every day [TS]

  oh yeah I also think about things like [TS]

  oh yeah I also think about things like [TS]

  there's also these jobs that are such a [TS]

  like a corner case or an edge case think [TS]

  about being a piano tuner what a weird [TS]

  job that is your been a room in a [TS]

  pianist be in tune mean it's really [TS]

  maddening [TS]

  are you kidding me that's another thing [TS]

  like the yoga channel I can't leave a [TS]

  room where pianos being you can all my [TS]

  goodness i remember the day in second [TS]

  grade when they tune the upright piano [TS]

  in our class and I thought my lunch I [TS]

  was going to lose my mind [TS]

  no well you know dial when I learned [TS]

  about tempering a piano [TS]

  oh my god i SAT around thinking I still [TS]

  think I really think I thought made that [TS]

  up idea at any temperature clavier well [TS]

  they do it you know of it and where [TS]

  everything is just where where things [TS]

  are slightly out of tune as they [TS]

  progress away from middle C and if [TS]

  they're not out of tune if they're all [TS]

  perfectly in tune the piano sounds [TS]

  bonkers and unfriendly so you have to [TS]

  you know things have to be and I hear [TS]

  about here this about guitar all the [TS]

  time I remember Eddie Van Halen speaking [TS]

  to me directly through the television [TS]

  back when there was still an MTV and he [TS]

  described that the b string on a guitar [TS]

  needs to be just slightly flat just a [TS]

  few cents flat in order for the guitar [TS]

  chords to sound nice [TS]

  and if your b string is tuned perfectly [TS]

  you're always going to feel a little bit [TS]

  out of tune which is why which is why I [TS]

  you know if you go with an electric [TS]

  tuner and you're just you're just really [TS]

  nailing the tuning it's always a little [TS]

  bit me and so having heard that in [TS]

  nineteen eighty interesting in it be [TS]

  what is the special nature of the be in [TS]

  that case well the be kind of doesn't [TS]

  belong almost later that's the that's [TS]

  the magic you know the B is sort of them [TS]

  the magic note where is the one way it [TS]

  sits off [TS]

  yeah it's kind of it's off by one it's [TS]

  necessary to be there like that in order [TS]

  to make chords easy to player in order [TS]

  to make those three strings and imagine [TS]

  how my brain so I'm sorry I'm gonna be [TS]

  done four minutes they don't have a car [TS]

  right in front of me but that's the one [TS]

  that's not like a fifth at the second [TS]

  that's right not like the others [TS]

  it's so can you imagine [TS]

  like if you were the person who's coming [TS]

  up with the guitar like how your OCD [TS]

  tendencies would certainly be to make [TS]

  them all that way [TS]

  oh it's your you ever had to make that [TS]

  decision like how crazy that would make [TS]

  you feel just like women one of them has [TS]

  to be 11 step off but yeah it's actually [TS]

  gonna work way better and then no no [TS]

  there's no way that that's gonna make it [TS]

  work better because that DG be in the [TS]

  middle like so many guitar chords have [TS]

  DG be either either ringing open or [TS]

  barred as a as a single bar right that's [TS]

  a little Cordy gb but that'd be kind of [TS]

  em it just wants to be and so so my [TS]

  whole career i have i have tempered my [TS]

  be by a couple of sense when i'm tuning [TS]

  with an electric tuner I never heard [TS]

  this I never get it all the way to [TS]

  perfect i just leave it a little tiny [TS]

  bit flat and that's something that eddie [TS]

  van halen told me and when eddie van [TS]

  halen says something about guitars you [TS]

  kind of just have to set up a little bit [TS]

  and go alright alright Eddie Van Halen [TS]

  tell me what I'm supposed to know you [TS]

  say how high when he says jump [TS]

  that's right now very Clapton it told me [TS]

  that I wasn't like sure blues man but [TS]

  eddie van halen a bag of dicks clapped [TS]

  and inhaling invented a new he wanted a [TS]

  new thing [TS]

  yeah he's the reason at all to Darrell's [TS]

  toccata to cup the Wow Bob river he [TS]

  invented Browns brown sound have been at [TS]

  the bride he invented the brown sound [TS]

  and then did I don't you remember [TS]

  self-same brown sound that makes people [TS]

  poop theoretic no don't know that's a [TS]

  ground Taylor that's the brownstone that [TS]

  you know a lot of people use brownstone [TS]

  in fact there was a clothing company in [TS]

  the in the mid-2000s called Brown sound [TS]

  and I think they were with a cop that [TS]

  for many van Halen and they used to send [TS]

  me free clothes huh [TS]

  but they were one of those clothing [TS]

  companies where an extra-large in brown [TS]

  sound close fit like a medium in [TS]

  carhartt clothes and I i was still [TS]

  making the transition to a new dressing [TS]

  like a sausage [TS]

  don't remember that do you remember when [TS]

  there was a there was a moment and i [TS]

  think it was emo it was emo pioneered [TS]

  this maybe maybe primo you remember when [TS]

  they're low remember when there was a a [TS]

  pre emo but it was already emo it's just [TS]

  we hadn't invented that term yet i think [TS]

  so i mean you're talking about the early [TS]

  nineties mid-nineties yeah midnight the [TS]

  earlier earlier like but after after [TS]

  minor threat before Fugazi well i'm not [TS]

  talking about the sound of the music i'm [TS]

  talking about the style of the people [TS]

  we're all of a sudden you know like [TS]

  tight black not type like Levi's but [TS]

  tired like Ted Leo it well except that [TS]

  there was a moment that i recall when i [TS]

  first started seeing chubby kids by [TS]

  which i mean people that had my build [TS]

  who wearing super tight clothes super [TS]

  tight t-shirts super tight pants and I [TS]

  remember the first time I saw it I was [TS]

  like oh my god like that guy has my bill [TS]

  which is to say dad bod [TS]

  uh-huh or even a little bit more dad bod [TS]

  more than dad bod but he's wearing [TS]

  really tight clothes like he's proud of [TS]

  his body like that's like that is an [TS]

  acceptable rock and roll style and it [TS]

  was a gizmo swings when close it did not [TS]

  reflect the shame he's supposed to feel [TS]

  that's right like that you excuse me sir [TS]

  you should be dressed like a sleeping [TS]

  bag [TS]

  are you aware like I've called the [TS]

  dignity please write I said are you will [TS]

  rarely are you aware that you should not [TS]

  feel this good about yourself [TS]

  yeah for for all of recorded history [TS]

  Shelby people have worn mousse and you [TS]

  are fucking it up by wearing tight [TS]

  clothes and yet and yet sitting over [TS]

  here if I were talking if I were sitting [TS]

  over here in a group of people I would [TS]

  be duty-bound to say oh my God look at [TS]

  that look at that dummy but sitting over [TS]

  here by myself looking at you I can i [TS]

  must confess that you look a little sexy [TS]

  like you are a little bit of a husky [TS]

  person and yet it is sexy to me but i [TS]

  did not personally dare to go out of the [TS]

  house wearing tight clothes heaven no I [TS]

  mean [TS]

  that was when I made that was when I [TS]

  first made the transition to western [TS]

  shirts oh maybe western shirts will do [TS]

  the job of making me look like jay [TS]

  farrar but also concealing that I was [TS]

  husky it's the it's the it's the classic [TS]

  mistake that husky people made shirts [TS]

  are kinda like a form of razzle dazzle [TS]

  camouflage exactly and I did am I wrong [TS]

  am I just not just saying that to be [TS]

  clever i think that might actually be [TS]

  just exactly right right hard to tell [TS]

  where you are exactly waiting camouflage [TS]

  camouflage disguise your clothes western [TS]

  shirts disguise your gut and yet they [TS]

  disguise forgot and they make it seem [TS]

  like you know what maybe I'm one of [TS]

  those guys in Willie Nelson's band and [TS]

  also but you know what it does is the [TS]

  thing is like yeah you can wear a black [TS]

  t-shirt you can wear a black dress shirt [TS]

  but a western shirt it seems like an [TS]

  added stiffness where with alongside the [TS]

  razzle-dazzle decoration it kind of [TS]

  throws off the ability to guess what [TS]

  your chest to gut ratio is yes it's got [TS]

  a box eNOS to it that makes you look a [TS]

  little bit like Western royalty [TS]

  see I don't know if donald duck dunn [TS]

  ever actually wore a western shirt but [TS]

  donald duck dunn was was one of those [TS]

  influences where I was like nobody's [TS]

  ever gonna call out donald duck dunn or [TS]

  bunny Carlos and say you guys aren't [TS]

  rock-and-roll donald duck dunn and bunny [TS]

  Carlos are rock as fuck but also little [TS]

  husky he's are still around that right [TS]

  oh no you di'int 2012 who did donald [TS]

  duck dunn yeah oh well yeah I think he [TS]

  died of rock-and-roll who I think he [TS]

  died of having played the bass on green [TS]

  onions he's so cute when he was young [TS]

  looking very cute with the pipe and the [TS]

  times when when you listen to him being [TS]

  interviewed his real southern cracker [TS]

  who he you it's like holy cow [TS]

  but boy like what what a what a what a [TS]

  profound influence [TS]

  yep but that that whole sausage casing [TS]

  style of dressing I gradually came [TS]

  around to it when I well it was just [TS]

  very recently when i bought my first [TS]

  pair of skinny jeans [TS]

  and regardless of how they looked to [TS]

  people up close when I saw pictures of [TS]

  myself on stage in skinny jeans I [TS]

  realize if you're in show business [TS]

  people want to see your legs if you're [TS]

  in show business people want to see your [TS]

  legs that's right they want to see the [TS]

  contours of your legs at all right so if [TS]

  you know what is especially with regard [TS]

  to live performance I never would have [TS]

  thought of it that way they don't [TS]

  normally see your legs they want to see [TS]

  your legs this is your legs this is why [TS]

  baseball uniforms and football uniforms [TS]

  and fencing uniforms and all of the [TS]

  clothes that were worn in the sixteenth [TS]

  seventeenth and eighteenth century they [TS]

  all were like who you know all the [TS]

  ruffles and frills and whatever you [TS]

  wanted and Pat's shoulder pads and [TS]

  geegaws all on the top half doesn't [TS]

  matter but the legs are like in tights [TS]

  basically i miss the days of all the [TS]

  baseball uniforms having their socks the [TS]

  socks well it Ichiro always wear the [TS]

  socks and now today they wear yoga pants [TS]

  model it's really you know you still [TS]

  have the option of wearing the socks [TS]

  that still it's like it's like in the US [TS]

  military [TS]

  well when I was in the Civil Air Patrol [TS]

  we all got books on military grooming [TS]

  that were clearly all printed up in 1965 [TS]

  but there was a protocol for wearing a [TS]

  mustache and tasteful sideburns in these [TS]

  so this is 1980 1982 let's say you could [TS]

  be in the Air Force and wear a mustache [TS]

  and tasteful sideburns [TS]

  I mean obviously not in boot camp but it [TS]

  was part of appropriate military dress [TS]

  now I don't know if that's true anymore [TS]

  when was last time you saw an army man [TS]

  who had a mustache who wasn't in the [TS]

  Special Forces and gay bar [TS]

  well no I mean this is a round of the [TS]

  different army man yeah right now you [TS]

  don't see that so much they had that [TS]

  seems you're going through a buy time [TS]

  for them you don't but then I don't see [TS]

  that many people in active military [TS]

  service unless they're boarding the [TS]

  plane in front of me [TS]

  well but you see them on on television [TS]

  when you watch [TS]

  all the the shows about the military [TS]

  doing special ops tonight sure [TS]

  oh y'all all the great says all the [TS]

  great special options at but in any case [TS]

  yeah they want to see your legs I don't [TS]

  know why but I want to see your legs too [TS]

  if you get up there on this is the other [TS]

  thing about like cowboy era Deadwood era [TS]

  when people started wearing pants rather [TS]

  than hose browsers browsers like to make [TS]

  that distinction for our English [TS]

  listeners oh I'm sorry that's right [TS]

  trousers they have they have a laugh [TS]

  when we say with a pants [TS]

  do they have a good laugh that's a laugh [TS]

  once a nonce because pants in British [TS]

  language means smell the same panties [TS]

  OIC right and not switch i used to mean [TS]

  a one-of-a-kind Black Swan type thing [TS]

  that speedo in England who got to learn [TS]

  it's like when they put out the the [TS]

  chevy car that in Spanish means it [TS]

  doesn't go to buy a new no bra but uh [TS]

  huh uh but I i love those pants those [TS]

  cowboy pants and I and and I went into a [TS]

  tailor one time and I was like why can [TS]

  you never find cowboy pants and they [TS]

  were like oh you mean stove pipe [TS]

  oh right and I was like stove pipe and [TS]

  they were like guess the leg is [TS]

  perfectly straight in a stovepipe aunt [TS]

  it is not tapered so you're going to [TS]

  select Seth Bullock pants money will [TS]

  accept from what from deadwood when you [TS]

  have any he's walking around with his [TS]

  hands arms down real straight decides [TS]

  he's got yeah that's a good look [TS]

  yeah so so the pants are they they have [TS]

  to be kind of tight too and difficult to [TS]

  get on right because your foot is your [TS]

  foot is going through a pipe that is the [TS]

  same with at the ankle that it is at the [TS]

  at the hip or whatever so you're just [TS]

  like you gotta like really point your [TS]

  toe and get those things on and then [TS]

  like a good cowboy never take them off [TS]

  right once you've got your pants on [TS]

  we're gonna take them off [TS]

  i've been i've been wearing the same [TS]

  pants for about a month now [TS]

  sure so you can let your pants down [TS]

  because our new you know the procedure [TS]

  you gotta wear them you gotta wear them [TS]

  until you break them you gotta break [TS]

  their will [TS]

  uh-huh right the pants are on you know [TS]

  when i sleep anymore I used to I used to [TS]

  sleep in them and now I don't do that [TS]

  anymore i stick bath sentimental do that [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  now I just wear them everyday did you [TS]

  ever wear them into the ocean who I [TS]

  remember when those when the first like [TS]

  selvedge premium denims came out who i [TS]

  hate to talk about all the three should [TS]

  have gotten by one time I was in Austin [TS]

  and we played an in-store at a panel [TS]

  like uppity men's clothing boutique when [TS]

  these things were brand-new and at in [TS]

  thanks [TS]

  they gave me two pairs of what I'm sure [TS]

  where 250 dollar jeans and the [TS]

  salesperson said listen you're not meant [TS]

  to wash these and i was like huh [TS]

  and he said to get them to fit properly [TS]

  you really should wait into the ocean [TS]

  with them on and I was like this is that [TS]

  you guys are in austin how do you and [TS]

  he's like we make special trip to the [TS]

  ocean [TS]

  he went into the ocean mr. and and I and [TS]

  I really do think he was like he wasn't [TS]

  saying that he was saying that the [TS]

  saltwater did something but what he was [TS]

  really saying is that you need to break [TS]

  the jeans spirit [TS]

  uh-huh or a rather tame the spirit of [TS]

  the genes like I like a mustang that's [TS]

  right liked a Mustang like the like the [TS]

  white horse on the Turkish trained in [TS]

  lawrence of arabia huh [TS]

  you are our Perseus with the with the [TS]

  flying horse my horse excellent Harry [TS]

  Hamlin yeah so you by levis 501 on one [TS]

  washed jeans [TS]

  uh-huh and then you put them on and [TS]

  they're like Perseus yeah it's a lot [TS]

  like first yes and i have ai want to [TS]

  keep your story i'm gonna have a certain [TS]

  procedure one thing I do is I i adjust [TS]

  the cuff every time I wear them so they [TS]

  don't wear into a single cough pattern [TS]

  I three different rough areas and I try [TS]

  to never duplicate the same fold so they [TS]

  don't get one fold in a.m sometimes [TS]

  that's the rookie mistake is now you're [TS]

  gonna have been aware at that point too [TS]

  so later on down the road when the genes [TS]

  have shrunk by various mean by various [TS]

  effects then you unroll the cuffs and [TS]

  there's not a dramatic line [TS]

  yeah yeah I i like them to be big that's [TS]

  why I get these pants i like i like a [TS]

  big overall and yeah but then we'll be [TS]

  able to accommodate your box so what you [TS]

  need big pans I'd any big event big boy [TS]

  big pants [TS]

  yes so one of the things i do that's [TS]

  mostly just wear them everyday you where [TS]

  we sitting where we stand you when you [TS]

  lay down your mom all day until you go [TS]

  to bed you can sleep and I have slept in [TS]

  the past but and you don't wash them and [TS]

  then now the three years for life and it [TS]

  only wash them in water [TS]

  let me ask you this I you know I know [TS]

  that you you aren't typically this way [TS]

  but do you ever take your once you've [TS]

  been wearing a pair of jeans for a while [TS]

  and once they have shown there he gay [TS]

  I don't know that her oh he gay [TS]

  now what is that he won yay he gay is a [TS]

  japanese term for the little mustache of [TS]

  where lines that form around your crotch [TS]

  specifically your crotch well sure [TS]

  and the little the little mustaches that [TS]

  form are like cat whiskers emanating [TS]

  from the cat knows of your penis head I [TS]

  never never heard that term or that [TS]

  concept and that is he gay and that is [TS]

  from the that is from the Japanese [TS]

  fascinate or the japanese vintage gene [TS]

  market if you're if you're nineteen [TS]

  sixties red tab red selvedge jeans which [TS]

  you paid twenty thousand dollars for a [TS]

  lot of what you're buying there is [TS]

  really nice he gay [TS]

  so when when you are wearing in a new [TS]

  pair of jeans [TS]

  and you have developed at first he gay [TS]

  who do you ever sometimes take your [TS]

  jeans off and lay them on the floor and [TS]

  appreciate them from the floor not till [TS]

  this afternoon [TS]

  well that's what i'm saying i know that [TS]

  i think i should do that I know this [TS]

  isn't a thing that is is typical of you [TS]

  but once you've got some good he gay go [TS]

  and take your jeans off put them on the [TS]

  floor lay them out and then just stand [TS]

  back and see them look at it look at it [TS]

  for what it is that's right see them for [TS]

  what see them for what they are which is [TS]

  an extension of your emotion they [TS]

  represent your have to just be the [TS]

  crotch John just imagine that I think I [TS]

  think the we're around the rest of the [TS]

  genes the he gave that happens on your [TS]

  near whatever doesn't look like cat [TS]

  whiskers I say so it probably has a [TS]

  different i do like to admire them [TS]

  whatever we're for a while and put them [TS]

  down and they still look like me without [TS]

  me anyway that's very I think i'm doing [TS]

  my work hope for sure [TS]

  look at that like there is a record of [TS]

  me written i don't even have to be there [TS]

  they understand me so much that I don't [TS]

  have to be there to be my pants you can [TS]

  stand in the corner and they will do [TS]

  stay will do small administrative tasks [TS]

  for you right people come into your [TS]

  office and they have a stupid question [TS]

  for you you're the heat can answer [TS]

  honestly [TS]

  let's be let's let's pick up some more [TS]

  tape hey Merlin's pants [TS]

  what do i do about what do i do about [TS]

  the do i have to move the car when the [TS]

  parking changes out front rolls parents [TS]

  coaches have another one day but you [TS]

  don't want to get this work thanks pants [TS]

  Lee expats that's so that is something I [TS]

  mean you know I in fact Merlin's pants [TS]

  want once went and got dim sum for us i [TS]

  remember about to go oh shit oh shit my [TS]

  own space let me get that [TS]

  oh that must have been heavy what school [TS]

  until that room you look at that stick [TS]

  if I'm glad the New Orleans fan speaking [TS]

  mr. Bill's voice no mr. why I really [TS]

  needed a cough button for this episode [TS]

  is you know I don't know yet what did it [TS]

  seem like I was coffee and clear my [TS]

  throat more or or a normal amount john [TS]

  hale and hearty to me [TS]

  see thats a uu maybe you may have like [TS]

  Stockholm Syndrome [TS]

  oh really i've been in the closet so [TS]

  long i'm starting to like it [TS]

  do you really no other podcasters that [TS]

  use cough button is a normal thing [TS]

  people some people write me all the time [TS]

  and send me links to cough buttons as [TS]

  though I'm as though i take advice from [TS]

  people i will i will tell you something [TS]

  that may shock and surprise you it is [TS]

  typical is typical for someone who is [TS]

  doing any kind of broadcasting has [TS]

  something called a cough button which [TS]

  comes from there they still have this on [TS]

  radio you still compassion french coffee [TS]

  coffee bhutan yep from like I'll and [TS]

  bhutan and so you are in radio you hit [TS]

  that button when you have to cough and [TS]

  you don't have to excuse me or something [TS]

  you don't cough on the air most [TS]

  podcasters will try not to make noise [TS]

  with her mouth on the air and then you [TS]

  know and so you use a cop button john [TS]

  zakappa button I mute occasionally but [TS]

  you're ready here this shocking surprise [TS]

  a lot of people out there i keep the [TS]

  mute button on during the entire time of [TS]

  the recording and just unmute long [TS]

  enough to say that thing they wanted to [TS]

  say kind of like a walkie-talkie [TS]

  how do I just bear in mind yeah how do [TS]

  their fans hear them breathing and [TS]

  wheezing and a well i'm in particular [TS]

  chuckling and laughing and snorting [TS]

  given the current technology i'm going [TS]

  to say they don't buy it doesn't feel to [TS]

  me at all but i know this is that record [TS]

  with people with it will be like but it [TS]

  you know like you hear them just like [TS]

  coming because they didn't the button [TS]

  fast enough that it can imagine living [TS]

  like that [TS]

  no no it seems to me like like some kind [TS]

  of some kind of tyranny I can trying not [TS]

  to let maybe their mouth breathers but [TS]

  you know what I'm a mouth breather [TS]

  well I mean that's the yahoo you just [TS]

  got made you I'm just cut maybe sir i [TS]

  feel i feel like this crystal fruit like [TS]

  that that's one of the reasons that that [TS]

  people listened but they're not all the [TS]

  time you know what it is Merlin all the [TS]

  time I look at these I look at these [TS]

  podcast award ceremony [TS]

  Jesus where everybody shows up in there [TS]

  blue tuxedos and they walked down the [TS]

  magic carpet and they get the podcast II [TS]

  like the award of podcast e whatever [TS]

  that is [TS]

  yes set of gold-plated headphones and or [TS]

  you know when people go on facebook and [TS]

  they're like you tell me what your [TS]

  favorite podcast is and I'm like here we [TS]

  go [TS]

  and I read down 40 responses and it's [TS]

  all like Marc Maron cereal [TS]

  yeah and i'm like as i know a lot of a [TS]

  wine oh come on and it may be really [TS]

  think that ya know because I feel like [TS]

  our podcast our award-winning podcast [TS]

  which has never won any awards some kids [TS]

  anymore its please [TS]

  but no no I want awards you want to [TS]

  watch okay can we will work just for [TS]

  your part of the podcast want but yeah I [TS]

  want anything sadder than the idea of a [TS]

  podcast award it's just really so [TS]

  depressing [TS]

  oh my god who are you gonna brag to you [TS]

  about winning a podcast to court and I [TS]

  don't want to talk about myself for a [TS]

  fortnight gotta rip it to pieces like I [TS]

  want a white ribbon for the i-i-i all [TS]

  the time described our podcast as the [TS]

  award-winning rhetoric on the line and [TS]

  without fail every single time I do it [TS]

  somebody's like what award did you win [TS]

  and I'm and then I'm left saying well I [TS]

  mean I'm gonna get back to this cross [TS]

  with her and I'm kidding I'm kidding [TS]

  when I say award-winning but there's a [TS]

  little part of me that dies and what I [TS]

  want to be invited to is the Australian [TS]

  podcast awards you know like I don't [TS]

  want to win a headphone I want to win [TS]

  went up a browser or whatever they say [TS]

  down there is headphone thing is that [TS]

  really a award that's really funny he [TS]

  just made that up [TS]

  well it's just like a little set of gold [TS]

  headphones but only one of them is [TS]

  touching the base right it's like [TS]

  they're they're a little bit off-center [TS]

  so the other headphones kind of sticking [TS]

  up in the air and it's just like there [TS]

  there little bit and puts like a gold [TS]

  base and they're kind of balanced head [TS]

  phony the headphone ease [TS]

  that's pretty good so you're going to [TS]

  australian get one of this i want to go [TS]

  I want to go to Australia and be--and [TS]

  and have it be one of those things like [TS]

  when Nirvana or Jimi Hendrix went to [TS]

  England sure it's like nobody in our own [TS]

  country understands us but in Australia [TS]

  we want a headphone me three years in a [TS]

  row and so then when I tell people my [TS]

  award-winning podcast Roderick on the [TS]

  line and they say what awarded [TS]

  however when i can say i got three and [TS]

  phonies and that would validate units [TS]

  are good feeling you know I never went [TS]

  to Harvard I never won an Emmy you're [TS]

  barely silver so goddess i'm fucking [TS]

  silver medallion I gotta what I got [TS]

  white ribbons in a box because i'm too [TS]

  proud of them to throw them away but too [TS]

  ashamed of them to show anybody haha [TS]

  that sounds perfect perfect for these [TS]

  yeah I guess let's move on to something [TS]

  else [TS]

  oh you found my box of white ribbons [TS]

  well yeah i'm just waiting to get enough [TS]

  of those to do a collage like it's like [TS]

  collecting it's like lightning very [TS]

  kindly worded breakup letters I suppose [TS]

  this was very full effect [TS]

  have you ever heard ever seen the cover [TS]

  art for the first long winters right and [TS]

  sure have John over a world-class [TS]

  bullshitter that's just the selection of [TS]

  not very polite breakup letter was a [TS]

  pretty good yeah so yeah so what is it [TS]

  too much to ask [TS]

  yeah i mean really it's absolutely too [TS]

  much to ask it's too much to ask is it [TS]

  because we don't appeal to we don't [TS]

  appeal to the people to go to the DMV [TS]

  the our other feel ya we have here bill [TS]

  just the people that have diamond [TS]

  platinum military with kids status [TS]

  I just feel like it's so unseemly to ask [TS]

  people for things i don't like asking [TS]

  for things and like and even if I got [TS]

  what I asked for in that case would i be [TS]

  any happier or better at what I do and [TS]

  no i wouldn't i would feel like a dingus [TS]

  let me tell me then let me ask you [TS]

  yeah if you if you have this but if you [TS]

  can actually got a headphone email i [TS]

  still don't know if that's a thing if [TS]

  somebody went to the trouble to in to [TS]

  make a headphone me and and not just [TS]

  make ahead phony but actually to [TS]

  establish an awards ceremony l2 in order [TS]

  to award headphones its name because it [TS]

  looks like at least somebody's uncle [TS]

  headphones that's why they call it that [TS]

  yeah and then you got one yeah wouldn't [TS]

  you be a little proud when you display [TS]

  that on the mantel even though you never [TS]

  go into your living room [TS]

  no you would not I would not i would not [TS]

  would you put it in a box i have to move [TS]

  over here who would you polish it with a [TS]

  box [TS]

  I i would eat it with some locks uh-huh [TS]

  Williams you're going on [TS]

  socks so it would be up there with it [TS]

  would be up there with make another old [TS]

  girl has to be there I Wilberforce I [TS]

  would refuse it i would i would marlon [TS]

  brando that shit [TS]

  whoa yeah i would i would say because of [TS]

  the plight of the Native American you [TS]

  are not going to accept this headphone I [TS]

  wouldn't show up i just sent her to pick [TS]

  up that not pick up the headphone em1 if [TS]

  she's still alive they'll be pretty cool [TS]

  pretty cool you know what you can just [TS]

  say that lady is alive or someone who [TS]

  looks like her you should be able to [TS]

  hire a Native American to refuse awards [TS]

  for you and let you be different ones [TS]

  would be like porn actors they become [TS]

  like fairly well-known inside of like a [TS]

  smaller oh I think that's the one that [TS]

  came into use home and she's awesome i [TS]

  would like to have any sprinkle a pic [TS]

  not because I i will not refuse an award [TS]

  because you know every day I look at my [TS]

  mantle which is covered with little [TS]

  dolls of all the presidents of the [TS]

  united states and some and various [TS]

  models of the airplanes that my father [TS]

  flew and a pair of a cold snow shoes and [TS]

  some bar neighs artfully displayed and [TS]

  what's missing is some kind of some kind [TS]

  of enemy Tony an industry [TS]

  acknowledgement of your important work [TS]

  something anyone your peers and what I [TS]

  do have is best to his tweet of the year [TS]

  for 2010 [TS]

  Wow as amazing as as issued by seattle [TS]

  weekly newspaper where I had a column at [TS]

  the time you fucking kidding no no [TS]

  better this is sudden you're allowing [TS]

  your home near will know it's because [TS]

  it's a hideous thing I'm like I would [TS]

  never display it but i can't throw it [TS]

  away because it's like a white ribbon [TS]

  it's like a hilarious white ribbon is a [TS]

  great white ribbon tweeter the year for [TS]

  2013 route for grandfather the year when [TS]

  when the seattle weekly was still trying [TS]

  to groc what tweeting was yeah and [TS]

  they're like you know what John Roderick [TS]

  tweets he was very prominent Seattle [TS]

  twitter he has 6000 Twitter followers [TS]

  nice but so I have a little space [TS]

  cleared on my mantel for for a headphone [TS]

  award and it never arrives because it [TS]

  doesn't exist [TS]

  that's a shame John well i think it's [TS]

  it's very healthy that you let people [TS]

  know that that's something you'd like to [TS]

  have is a made-up award from your peers [TS]

  for a podcast you an hour week that [TS]

  that's that would be I mean for the [TS]

  little lifetime service really that [TS]

  should be [TS]

  no to live your as they say in the [TS]

  community your lived experience as John [TS]

  erotic and bringing that to people at [TS]

  such as a small-scale it's the [TS]

  equivalent for me of having a it's the [TS]

  equivalent of of being a good the brain [TS]

  surgeon or a good footballer using his [TS]

  big muscles [TS]

  well the pits that its wits the axis of [TS]

  challenge and skill it's a challenge [TS]

  every week to talk to you can smell [TS]

  coffee without off but i have a lot of [TS]

  skill at it and I'm you know I've got a [TS]

  doctor waiting out there do you don't [TS]

  you think I know your friends don't you [TS]

  think how many people could do what I do [TS]

  ask now I know it'sit's I just now is a [TS]

  city writes an unbelieving overlooked [TS]

  your like Scorsese you're like the [TS]

  Scorsese of talking about record one [TS]

  thing about Scorsese what has he done [TS]

  lately up lots of stuff he's still [TS]

  really good [TS]

  are you sure you don't like wolf of wall [TS]

  street uh huh [TS]

  I mean that you get to his age and still [TS]

  be putting shit out that doesn't suck [TS]

  i'm just saying the scene where he to [TS]

  where he took all the drugs and he drove [TS]

  his Lamborghini home and then it turns [TS]

  out that he didn't actually buy Lars [TS]

  power who and who listening to our [TS]

  program hasn't seen the wolf of Wall [TS]

  Street it turns out the john nash was [TS]

  Tyler Durden all along hope [TS]

  with who I don't want somebody to just [TS]

  make me a bucket head phony and send it [TS]

  to me and some kind of gag you just made [TS]

  it up right i we I one okay i want there [TS]

  to actually be an award ceremony in [TS]

  australia and new zealand and zach is [TS]

  one it's got its gonna be like the [TS]

  american association for what is the [TS]

  motion picture arts and sciences you [TS]

  need some kind of a phony-baloney [TS]

  acronym for this right Paul Allen in [TS]

  hollywood foreign press association that [TS]

  kind of thing in your name Paul invented [TS]

  awarded every year he gives it to some [TS]

  aging rock star and they always come and [TS]

  he gives it two minutes just nothing [TS]

  it's just a thing that he is he's rich [TS]

  enough to make the why why is there not [TS]

  you know australian if 411 on the [TS]

  Australia parties are ye like spiders or [TS]

  something like we're going to Australia [TS]

  I'm just looking for a free ticket to me [TS]

  oh yeah well you know with your status [TS]

  australian ah are all oral are a war [TS]

  group or 400 abbreviation association so [TS]

  I'm my workshop this [TS]

  no no I feel like the problem is I don't [TS]

  have a reason to go to Australia I want [TS]

  desperately to go to Australia but I [TS]

  don't have a reason nobody's invited me [TS]

  i don't want to just go down there and [TS]

  walk around like some dingo anywhere you [TS]

  want to meet him [TS]

  got a plan the trip yeah well it's not i [TS]

  don't want to plan I don't want to go [TS]

  there with a plan i want i want is not [TS]

  simply walk into Australia John that's [TS]

  the thing i'm not a tourist you know i'm [TS]

  not on a walkabout [TS]

  no I want to go there is a professional [TS]

  person to accept an award that i [TS]

  invented yes and and that is is that too [TS]

  much to have no no no I feel like that's [TS]

  a that's it that is some normal last [TS]

  shit but much to ask the things that [TS]

  your organization be created to make an [TS]

  award that something to give to you in [TS]

  Australia that are not too much for [TS]

  anyone to know we are pioneering podcast [TS]

  just got my costume [TS]

  we're still in early days here and [TS]

  nobody knows what it is [TS]

  so why not just make it what we want [TS]

  that's right now you need other people [TS]

  to care all you need is people to [TS]

  understand that as a podcast pioneer you [TS]

  can establish certain parameters also [TS]

  hear from pioneer podcast pioneer I [TS]

  guess I always get special the special [TS]

  via the special what's called the phony [TS]

  you should get the world the the special [TS]

  phone in the first years like the Irving [TS]

  Thalberg a podcast you get the podcast [TS]

  pioneer award you've had one for like 45 [TS]

  years now [TS]

  you don't think you don't think that [TS]

  we're podcast pioneers because we [TS]

  weren't in that first four hours of [TS]

  podcast you don't know you what I think [TS]

  this is the only thing i do that you [TS]

  listen to I've talked about this a lot i [TS]

  think we're extremely early days I think [TS]

  we're in ridiculously early days [TS]

  yeah where were the people that were [TS]

  going across the oregon trail in 1850 it [TS]

  still takes the new york times about two [TS]

  months to forget podcast exist before [TS]

  announcing that they've arrived say that [TS]

  about this thing's got hot guys gonna be [TS]

  quite the thing and this audio is [TS]

  available on demand panels like this [TS]

  time the headphone awards right griffin [TS]

  mcelroy is going to get one because as [TS]

  soon as he gets as soon as he gets wise [TS]

  to this from any other way as soon as he [TS]

  gets hip to it he's going to say that he [TS]

  deserves so he's like a podcast inventor [TS]

  griffin mcelroy griffin mcelroy that's [TS]

  an awesome name [TS]

  not now [TS]

  inventor but he's a pirate right Jesse [TS]

  thorn should have like Ohio more than [TS]

  just messy for yeah he should have a [TS]

  wall okay me griffin mcelroy sonipat [TS]

  podcast called my brother my brother and [TS]

  me [TS]

  he's one of the brothers ok well maybe [TS]

  he's the me they're also i'm gonna get [TS]

  smoked out McElroy's the other two are [TS]

  also McElroy's protected brothers its [TS]

  story checks out [TS]

  typically when brothers get married they [TS]

  don't change their name although they [TS]

  might add a hyphenated another name [TS]

  right now have to decide whether the [TS]

  Judaism come through the mother [TS]

  precisely so much Judy is that comes out [TS]

  of the Father I its come on throw me a [TS]

  bone [TS]

  I was pretty good oh shit my bell was my [TS]

  bell was a necessity activated no okay [TS]

  perfect [TS]

  listen I gotta get up i want to make I [TS]

  don't want to make you uncomfortable [TS]

  you're not making me uncomfortable more [TS]

  than happy to be there at least like a [TS]

  maybe a holograph of me could be there [TS]

  when you accept you're very brave ward [TS]

  so hot walk onstage I want this [TS]

  thunderous applause for Australians who [TS]

  we've all we all know clap hard [TS]

  oh I don't know I've been in New Zealand [TS]

  i could not get any reaction from the is [TS]

  new zealand's are the new zealand's or [TS]

  the Canadians of Australia my but they [TS]

  love that right [TS]

  no no absolutely there's nothing wrong [TS]

  with being the Canadians what do you [TS]

  think if at me whoo that's your problem [TS]

  i was a little bit of and you know like [TS]

  that was that was North American [TS]

  normative that's right so there's no new [TS]

  zealand is the canada australia canada [TS]

  like Americans to pay but just think [TS]

  about it while you know what I'm not [TS]

  gonna get letters this time it's gonna [TS]

  be you [TS]

  I i love Canada so much more than you [TS]

  and everybody knows it [TS]

  what have you ever been to edmonton [TS]

  boost ja oh god here we go let's play [TS]

  that John knows names of places game [TS]

  yes I've been all of them John you can [TS]

  tell you where to go to get a white [TS]

  ribbon in all of them [TS]

  no no i've been to vancouver and I've [TS]

  been to Toronto [TS]

  yeah right well and so a lot of people [TS]

  like not qualified to say that I like [TS]

  canadians a lot of people like you think [TS]

  that that's all that there is to Canada [TS]

  I assume that's all there is doesn't [TS]

  seem like a very big country it's the [TS]

  toupee of America [TS]

  oh my god i just meant geographically [TS]

  you don't know what Mexico is my right [TS]

  up here [TS]

  you could you could you could say that [TS]

  Canada was the whip cream on the top of [TS]

  America that seems to this so you're [TS]

  walking up on the stage there's a [TS]

  hologram of me there's kind of three [TS]

  turkey was i'm in a blue i'm in a [TS]

  midnight blue tuxedo and then something [TS]

  a job that my brother was upset my pants [TS]

  my pits hopefully their jobs i love you [TS]

  oh dear [TS]

  [Music] [TS]