Roderick on the Line

Ep. 189: "Technicolor Irony Coat"


  this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

  brought to you in part by Casper Casper [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  to start popping pop Baby Bop and Bop [TS]

  ball popularity but why can't they see [TS]

  they're just like me [TS]

  it's just say it's the same in the whole [TS]

  wide world [TS]

  papi papi papi papi papi will be where [TS]

  we ever got that all john william I you [TS]

  been secretly goth right that's so [TS]

  knowing no not at all [TS]

  never not at all nothing you're always [TS]

  been dipped into so many subcultures to [TS]

  seem like you must have gotten into a [TS]

  little bit of God's at some point hmm no [TS]

  hmm no i am not at all gods have never [TS]

  been gone but i have to say i left a i [TS]

  left a recording session open on my [TS]

  computer and when i logged onto this [TS]

  program which is what i do i I had the [TS]

  most amazing echo on my voice and I [TS]

  would just went through the different [TS]

  levels of my computer as you do [TS]

  uh-huh and i found an open recording [TS]

  track where there is some bass reduction [TS]

  some chorus and some echo plus some [TS]

  reverb and a little bit of EQ on my [TS]

  voice today and it's got like neil [TS]

  hamburger meat my blade Valentine it [TS]

  sounded like sounds like I'm in a Greek [TS]

  temple underwater in the future and so [TS]

  when we started going bop Boop bop I was [TS]

  fucking jamming on it I was really I [TS]

  wish we were still doing it now mansion [TS]

  you know if you want I could put some [TS]

  chamber reverb on the whole track entire [TS]

  show [TS]

  I've had lots the whole nine if [TS]

  everybody could hear what I'm hearing [TS]

  right now [TS]

  no I'm going to turn it off oh man it's [TS]

  very distracting the CD confidence John [TS]

  you can't hear [TS]

  I know it's very distracting it's kind [TS]

  of like when you used to get on a phone [TS]

  call and there would be that that crazy [TS]

  delay I like a little bit like a slap [TS]

  back [TS]

  it's just that means just a little too [TS]

  much slapback and it's distracting did [TS]

  you need a minute to take care of that [TS]

  now i'm going to do that writing that [TS]

  ministry song if you want i'm going to [TS]

  save [TS]

  save this file up Monica gone [TS]

  hooray for me up but I know how to use [TS]

  computers boy [TS]

  no I was never gone because I'm [TS]

  ridiculous [TS]

  I don't know a lot of people were gone [TS]

  there right there are certain things [TS]

  that I feel like it are generational [TS]

  things that are just that I'm just like [TS]

  two years too old for a brother you know [TS]

  like send me the story of my life [TS]

  brother [TS]

  yeah if you were if you graduated in the [TS]

  class of 1988 that meant that in [TS]

  nineteen eighty-four you were just young [TS]

  enough to feel like God was a reasonable [TS]

  choice you might you know get somewhat [TS]

  cocteau twins you get some dead can [TS]

  dance you get some what's the bauhaus [TS]

  bauhaus sounds bauhaus was you know [TS]

  there's a lot of those bands they got [TS]

  lumped in that were actually pretty good [TS]

  bauhaus very good love and rockets very [TS]

  good love rocks there pop and they you [TS]

  know they were gothy but they were they [TS]

  were so popular like for a long time I [TS]

  issued echo and the bunnymen because I [TS]

  thought erroneously that they were a god [TS]

  bandido the cure i was like listen to [TS]

  music like that and then actually listen [TS]

  to it was like this is amazing pop music [TS]

  well so the Cure course being the being [TS]

  the incredible example of a band that is [TS]

  so extraordinary that they transcend all [TS]

  genre but when i was first introduced to [TS]

  the cure it was i was introduced to them [TS]

  via their pop hits which I didn't like [TS]

  the other there [TS]

  I mean you know they have some some [TS]

  really great pop songs now that we're [TS]

  finally late eighties but the the stuff [TS]

  I know what it is for me this is one [TS]

  where thank God for greatest hits [TS]

  I heard a little bit cure i think i had [TS]

  head on the door and then I got the [TS]

  standing on a beach [TS]

  I got the cassette version goals they [TS]

  were all different but yes but I mean [TS]

  like each song was better than the last [TS]

  they were in probably great pop songs [TS]

  you haven't liked loved cats or whatever [TS]

  haha stations are it's a great song but [TS]

  I could take it or leave it right it was [TS]

  kind of like the more of a hanging God [TS]

  kind of guy [TS]

  well what what happened to me was I got [TS]

  someone dropped the entire aisle [TS]

  disintegration on me and disintegration [TS]

  happened already at a point where I was [TS]

  like have a cure the guys get funny [TS]

  harry wears eyeliner he's got these love [TS]

  cats songs you know [TS]

  yeah I'm well I'm still listening to [TS]

  that first Iron Maiden record right and [TS]

  I was a weird time [TS]

  yeah and I don't need all this like [TS]

  whole pop bleep but then a [TS]

  disintegration landed on me and I feel [TS]

  like that is an album physical it's one [TS]

  of those Complete Works you do not take [TS]

  a song off of that and listen to it [TS]

  separately it is just you put it on and [TS]

  you drive all night until you are so [TS]

  hypnotise arrive later than I thought [TS]

  that's 1989 that came and that's right [TS]

  she's Louise that is a record that has [TS]

  probably killed people right because [TS]

  they are driven off the road in the [TS]

  night they have gone down into a ravine [TS]

  and as they fell into the ravine they [TS]

  were not sorry because their death was [TS]

  as dramatic as the music they were [TS]

  listening don't think it hadn't gone [TS]

  through my mind [TS]

  sure I mean is the time music to like [TS]

  when i arrived at somebody's house based [TS]

  I figure out what song I wanted to be [TS]

  playing when I pulled into someone's [TS]

  driveway let alone how I want to die on [TS]

  a road I hear a lot of people tell me [TS]

  that eat that both the commander thinks [TS]

  aloud and also our song our long winter [TS]

  song blanket hog mls big guy gets big at [TS]

  the end they put those songs on when [TS]

  that when the captain says please fasten [TS]

  your seatbelts were on final approach [TS]

  they put those songs on their headphones [TS]

  because they they want to ride that wave [TS]

  if the plane is going down they want [TS]

  that to be happening and they break the [TS]

  glass on the special ipod to carry [TS]

  around it just has those two songs on a [TS]

  cute up though I totally relate to that [TS]

  and the Cure's disintegration and my [TS]

  bloody Valentine's Lovelace were always [TS]

  the records that i put on when I was the [TS]

  only one awake and i was driving the van [TS]

  through the night [TS]

  oh yeah both of them terrible records [TS]

  for that because who you're exhausted at [TS]

  that point everyone else is asleep no [TS]

  one's there to keep you alive [TS]

  well it's NBD man you might just start [TS]

  hallucinating while the records you [TS]

  absolutely do and so you can get a [TS]

  sensory deprivation thing it's like what [TS]

  is that noise where is that coming from [TS]

  what is happening in your brain is gonna [TS]

  try to fill in like [TS]

  between in all these are all details to [TS]

  help you understand what you want the [TS]

  assault on your ears [TS]

  that's right and so you're seeing the [TS]

  the glowing the glowing eyeballs of [TS]

  little deer that are waiting on the side [TS]

  of the road to jump out re are you just [TS]

  like I am with you [TS]

  world i'm flying and you know swerve [TS]

  driver I mean there were a lot of there [TS]

  were a lot of bands that were in that [TS]

  zone but i just picked those two records [TS]

  for if i wanted something that had a lot [TS]

  of sound [TS]

  yeah you know the shootings bands were [TS]

  weird for me because like goth stuff it [TS]

  was something I felt very comfortable [TS]

  writing off unfairly perhaps but none [TS]

  right i would write off basically the [TS]

  entire genre except for a handful of [TS]

  utterly amazing bands i just as a genre [TS]

  it seems like so such a nothing burger [TS]

  but then you know MTV and maybe a ride [TS]

  like there are a couple of those bands [TS]

  like there's a lot going on this was the [TS]

  problem with the stone roses for me i [TS]

  had this conversation literally this [TS]

  week [TS]

  you're cuter scott simpson I had the [TS]

  stones are you ready for this kind of [TS]

  John interrupt you but continued quick [TS]

  anecdote go go in there and long story [TS]

  short the bartender at this place where [TS]

  Scott an IRA he's wearing a unknown [TS]

  pleasures shirt so of course I feel the [TS]

  need to discuss with joy division with [TS]

  him at length we end up talking about 24 [TS]

  hour party people [TS]

  one of the great films of our time right [TS]

  and how like the first half of that [TS]

  movie I i double triple love the second [TS]

  half never got into happy mondays [TS]

  it's not like i never got into the Happy [TS]

  Mondays well makers wild roses [TS]

  sorry to interrupt yeah and this is [TS]

  going to infuriate our English friends [TS]

  but happy mondays were garbage are [TS]

  terrible band they're awfully not [TS]

  nothing they did was good they have the [TS]

  dancing guy and then there's always I [TS]

  was as they say the rubbish it was [TS]

  rubbish and then I you know I said scott [TS]

  was like yeah I could never get into a [TS]

  lot of that Scott's like yeah you know [TS]

  even start like Stone Roses though they [TS]

  had two songs I like they had she bangs [TS]

  the drum and what's the one I don't have [TS]

  to save my soul fool's gold [TS]

  yeah the first song LOL in death by [TS]

  three songs my hand of God we're having [TS]

  this conversation and guess what comes [TS]

  on stereo dundun dundun 22 xubuntu too [TS]

  students who dude I don't huh [TS]

  the cell so and I was like wait a minute [TS]

  i'm literally loosening right-hander [TS]

  this song in three years and it just [TS]

  came on you guys manifest that what we [TS]

  conjugate country like an orb that's [TS]

  what my sister would say you manifested [TS]

  it I should talk to her she probably [TS]

  helped me a lot usually she's all about [TS]

  manifesting very positive the stone [TS]

  roses are are the other thing where [TS]

  you're like to introduce the rule if [TS]

  this song if this was like the smiths [TS]

  for me Frank if this is negative is [TS]

  indicative of the quality of their [TS]

  catalogs and I have found my new [TS]

  favorite band and then you dig in stop [TS]

  there and and you're like some girl's [TS]

  mother mother and you're like I made a [TS]

  mistake i made a little more fun and [TS]

  happy he's having that on the room [TS]

  he's taking the Mickey I'm turning the [TS]

  lights off Jesus Christ John i'll leave [TS]

  the stereo on in case any excuse the [TS]

  cats 10 they get lonely during the day [TS]

  there is a light and it never goes out [TS]

  there is a felony that only has to know [TS]

  it's only got four nodes stone the stone [TS]

  roses were one of these like oh my god [TS]

  this song I mean I always felt that they [TS]

  kind of reintroduce the idea of that to [TS]

  get a packet to the package driver was [TS]

  awesome dance beat and then there's like [TS]

  this pop tune of the top I was like this [TS]

  is transforming me and the nothing else [TS]

  rose to the level of those first two but [TS]

  I mean like okay so it's not like i said [TS]

  to Scott just this previous wednesday [TS]

  night I said you know for me [TS]

  we look at the Manchester scene and all [TS]

  the like that the dancing stuff that [TS]

  happened in the nineties and I honestly [TS]

  thought happy mondays was some kind of a [TS]

  trap Street because he's so people we [TS]

  unlike a man i must be missing something [TS]

  other gaslighting you the entire culture [TS]

  there's nobody to actually like this [TS]

  band who would put this record on [TS]

  deliberately so I'm gonna I'm gonna go [TS]

  with I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with [TS]

  a couple songs from stores and i'm going [TS]

  to say primal screen [TS]

  normal screen was pretty great scheme [TS]

  was great you're absolutely right but [TS]

  but I mean all of that stuff I the [TS]

  groove is in the heart do [TS]

  doo-doo-doot-doot doot-doo live like to [TS]

  do if your time I dance music or any [TS]

  kind of like fun party music or take [TS]

  ecstasy and dance on the beach in goa [TS]

  music that says new order for me [TS]

  uh well sure but like but like uh I'm [TS]

  talking about post-1990 rightmost 1991 [TS]

  that when that thing was happening with [TS]

  all the glow sticks and shit [TS]

  yeah they called the rave culture the [TS]

  rave culture you know have a little have [TS]

  a little funk have a little funk to it [TS]

  sure but here's here's you want to you [TS]

  want to just go out and hire bootsy [TS]

  collins that'll help you want to talk [TS]

  about a controversial opinion a boy I [TS]

  make yourself sir go ahead controversial [TS]

  opinions [TS]

  hmm i feel this way and I'm embarrassed [TS]

  I'm still ashamed about this feeling [TS]

  like I'm not ashamed about feeling the [TS]

  way I do about the cure [TS]

  I'm sorry I'm sorry the Smiths oh [TS]

  because Smith she's the way people feel [TS]

  about the smiths I want them to stop [TS]

  feeling that way it's not that I want [TS]

  them to stop feeling that way about the [TS]

  Smith I think this is because you and [TS]

  Shaun have a lot of unresolved shit and [TS]

  you take it out on the smiths this [TS]

  happened to me that this was true of me [TS]

  in 1984 I felt this way about the smiths [TS]

  doesn't deserve it is a put-on meat is [TS]

  murder because I because I loved the [TS]

  cover [TS]

  yeah a little-little over 800 right [TS]

  loved the deal right the Smith look he's [TS]

  at he he he's asexual and their album [TS]

  covers are cool cool these beautiful but [TS]

  a bit that even the logo you know that [TS]

  the typeface yes I'll go everything [TS]

  about it just seems timeless the guitar [TS]

  players so amazing and i was like i'm [TS]

  gonna do this I'm gonna get new wave i'm [TS]

  going to go for it and I don't need to [TS]

  just be listening to you know Marc Bolan [TS]

  or whatever i'm ready from and I put it [TS]

  on and it made me so angry I was so [TS]

  angry that you would put all this tip [TS]

  that I felt like the happy mondays like [TS]

  what are you people talking about and [TS]

  then Emma how can you even put them in [TS]

  the same way I shouldn't be on the same [TS]

  cotton and how come home and were there [TS]

  not only from the moment they're from [TS]

  like within 600 miles [TS]

  each other no they are practicing the [TS]

  same neighborhood and their brother off [TS]

  the boat from Manchester I think Chester [TS]

  well yeah right okay you know what I can [TS]

  adjust your geography basically comes [TS]

  down to like everything in 24 hour party [TS]

  people that's what I know [TS]

  yeah everything from leads to permanent [TS]

  bobby was a salford lad but uh but I [TS]

  hate you so mad and then and then all [TS]

  the hero worship and all like falling [TS]

  and the falling over and i was just like [TS]

  there's no this is an emperor has no [TS]

  clothes situation there's nothing here [TS]

  just can't imagine you're talking about [TS]

  having Monday's whenever you talk about [TS]

  this message and so it continued into [TS]

  adulthood [TS]

  I thought this was one of those things [TS]

  where everybody in the eighties was [TS]

  having a collective delusion and then [TS]

  there would be this moment of reckoning [TS]

  where it was like like Timbuk 3 if you [TS]

  were still really in book 3 i like that [TS]

  song she did we thought there was an [TS]

  afternoon in what 1988 where we all [TS]

  liked it and then we moved on but that [TS]

  isn't the case and colin Meloy and John [TS]

  Nelson and you you guys have all just [TS]

  bored the shit out of me talking about [TS]

  the smiths there's I 33 and a third book [TS]

  it just it feels like it you know what [TS]

  is it feels like that 33 and a third [TS]

  culture it's like blah blah blah blah [TS]

  that's like people who are on Iran on an [TS]

  ironic Lee into pro wrestling [TS]

  yes thank you exactly and I said [TS]

  something like I am I spent the fucking [TS]

  shit about the smiths the other day and [TS]

  you know our good friends from the new [TS]

  pornographers [TS]

  uh-huh oh god you guys get a room [TS]

  publicly took me on and said I said [TS]

  anyone that doesn't like the smiths is [TS]

  uh is like a garbage person [TS]

  yeah you know that David all of his [TS]

  tweets in many years and and I said you [TS]

  know what first of all garbage person is [TS]

  not a thing we use anymore that's you [TS]

  know that's really from a different time [TS]

  well it is and it's very--it's normative [TS]

  against garbage people and I just I feel [TS]

  like first of all let's stop doing that [TS]

  it's one of those words like gypsy or [TS]

  mathlete you know we just gotta stop [TS]

  saying it [TS]

  that's right good no we're not you know [TS]

  I'm looking out the window right now and [TS]

  a BMW just pulled into the parking lot [TS]

  and did that thing where he parked [TS]

  completely across two parking spots like [TS]

  like the line is running straight down [TS]

  the middle of his car parked it and I [TS]

  was like are you are you got to battle [TS]

  traffic jams and Happy Mondays and then [TS]

  turn just turn the car off turn the [TS]

  lights off and just [TS]

  fuck that guy i'm so mad right now but [TS]

  but here's here's my controversial [TS]

  opinion this is gonna make people very [TS]

  mad [TS]

  ok but except that nobody except nobody [TS]

  and you know our audience is actually 24 [TS]

  years old they have no idea what you [TS]

  don't know these bands are but again [TS]

  everything is streaming whatever people [TS]

  give them the stream it yeah they stream [TS]

  it just streaming well what's the matter [TS]

  stream [TS]

  yeah it's like Tom Petty right up [TS]

  against some dollars a month to get [TS]

  stream from Marilyn Monroe and then you [TS]

  know and then it's like the commercial [TS]

  fortuna it's like that directv Robert [TS]

  everything that you see in certain bars [TS]

  where it's like Bob Marley is sitting [TS]

  with james dean around a pool table with [TS]

  some cats and it's painted in velvet [TS]

  they're all smoking cigars [TS]

  that's what contemporary and I go for [TS]

  three Ball corner pocket [TS]

  no I feel that way about the second [TS]

  delic first oh yeah [TS]

  Psychedelic Furs have if they have five [TS]

  outstanding there for outsiders a [TS]

  world-beating songs i was going to say [TS]

  for four songs that just make you that [TS]

  make you fall to your knees and cry out [TS]

  original original pretty in pink [TS]

  you've got love my way you've got don't [TS]

  know don't know you've got of the ghost [TS]

  in you the greatest Austin you oh my god [TS]

  you've heard Robyn Hitchcock cover that [TS]

  I can't you know I've heard Robyn [TS]

  Hitchcock cover 450 songs and that was [TS]

  all in the first night I met him at all [TS]

  so I'm not sure I can't say for sure [TS]

  that I pray you're right you're right [TS]

  there [TS]

  their records me taken to another band [TS]

  listen to on cassettes at the same time [TS]

  the cars like the cars [TS]

  I mean Jesus Christ for the first four [TS]

  or so carves cars albums they had six [TS]

  really good songs on her rocker / record [TS]

  i mean the first record is an anomaly [TS]

  the first record is like I would even [TS]

  put that it's just one of those complete [TS]

  works it's like rumors [TS]

  yeah yeah I know every someone here and [TS]

  they're all good and I don't skip them [TS]

  well and so the but the psychedelic furs [TS]

  are like are like a like a music critic [TS]

  favorite [TS]

  yeah but they have the I mean they're [TS]

  just one song better than a flock of [TS]

  seagulls [TS]

  right like flock of seagulls have two [TS]

  incredible tune Iran in space age love [TS]

  song [TS]

  no not space lobster ok that's the third [TS]

  I was falling in love it's about that's [TS]

  the third if I had a photograph of you [TS]

  something to remind me [TS]

  yes that's a good song amazing tune so [TS]

  so we we mock flock of seagulls what [TS]

  they have they have two and a half left [TS]

  for school never saw lodge [TS]

  let's go digits that true opening for [TS]

  the go-go's my fucking god [TS]

  yeah 1982 or answer he is you saw them [TS]

  live let alone that was the first you [TS]

  know it's the first band is all I was [TS]

  fucking Dokken I said was a the go-go's [TS]

  on their vacation to her vacation i'll [TS]

  ever wanted chainwheel is our life stop [TS]

  it stop it you're telling me Jane [TS]

  Wiedlin she's just up there playing [TS]

  guitar with a normal thing I know I know [TS]

  what your babydoll dress and a Chance of [TS]

  some kind of frilly panties sexy I think [TS]

  she had like a little flouncy skirt and [TS]

  she would hop when she played you're [TS]

  destroying me and you none of these [TS]

  people came to Alaska they didn't even [TS]

  know Alaska was an american states but [TS]

  so yeah so I mean I was listening to [TS]

  some flock of seagulls the other day [TS]

  because I think they are good but the I [TS]

  think the ultimate example of this is in [TS]

  excess over the course of their career [TS]

  they had no fewer than ten great songs [TS]

  they had a lot of really good song but [TS]

  it's not the ones that people remember [TS]

  what you need is not a great song [TS]

  now wait a minute no bow out [TS]

  no no that's what I'm gonna go on with [TS]

  that dream on backpage my girl what's [TS]

  that song called remember that song yeah [TS]

  it's called the webwork but like girl [TS]

  space specialist a love song and they [TS]

  also got that one this time we'll be [TS]

  landing the big hits off of those first [TS]

  records we just don't remember them that [TS]

  we don't remember those first records [TS]

  what about the one thing like the one [TS]

  thing I like out solutions ah here's the [TS]

  point of I remember this here's the [TS]

  thing i like every INXS single until [TS]

  kick and then it kick they did a little [TS]

  bit of the UH they did a little bit of [TS]

  the def leppard adrenal eyes they think [TS]

  they're like an AI that became just [TS]

  slightly self-aware it to too self-aware [TS]

  right that like kicks [TS]

  kick was their biggest record by a [TS]

  thousand points just like Def Leppard's [TS]

  adrenal eyes just like Van Halen's 94 [TS]

  and it was when they jump the shark boy [TS]

  you know it'sit's I'm so reluctant to [TS]

  put it in terms that dumb and simple and [TS]

  unfair but it's true it's true those are [TS]

  junk that's a jump the shark fucking [TS]

  album its next maybe 40 what well and [TS]

  legendary for was good but you know what [TS]

  was the one after that was Sammy Hagar [TS]

  that's the 150 150 but that just made me [TS]

  fucking angry was fucking garbage and [TS]

  and wall out bounced out and we got what [TS]

  it takes and tell me why i have it [TS]

  reveal oh I was at the Tastee Freez dots [TS]

  and know that you're inside the textfree [TS]

  i was in the Tastee Freez I was not [TS]

  something a chili dog i have never done [TS]

  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  brought to you in part by Casper to [TS]

  learn more right now please visit Casper [TS]

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  walking around in some kind of retail [TS]

  mattress store land on some kind of [TS]

  mattress and million other people laid [TS]

  on guys are talking about a 30-year life [TS]

  here you want to do this the right way [TS]

  and with Casper what you ever get the [TS]

  right way because a surprisingly small [TS]

  box magically appears at your door [TS]

  this is your mattress inside of a box [TS]

  it's bananas and carried it up to your [TS]

  room by yourself you open it up it [TS]

  gently inhales and you find you've got [TS]

  this gorgeous mattress all yours [TS]

  it's everything you need to have a great [TS]

  night sleep it's actually that easy [TS]

  it's actually that simple here's the [TS]

  crazy part Casper offers an equally [TS]

  simple risk-free trial and return policy [TS]

  so you can try sleeping on your Casper [TS]

  for 100 lights and if for some reason [TS]

  it's not your liking you can send it [TS]

  back 32 [TS]

  every painless returns it's all made in [TS]

  America and sleep glorious sleep the [TS]

  prices on these things are crazy [TS]

  starting at 504 twin size mattress only [TS]

  954 a king-size mattress try finding [TS]

  this prices in a retail store ain't [TS]

  gonna happen [TS]

  and on top of it all Casper has a [TS]

  special offer to listeners of Roderick [TS]

  on the line get fifty dollars toward any [TS]

  mattress purchase by visiting Casper [TS]

  calm / supertrain and use that very [TS]

  special offer code supertrain it's fifty [TS]

  dollars off $50 American hybrid mattress [TS]

  terms and conditions apply wanna say [TS]

  thanks to Casper for the great night [TS]

  sleep and for supporting Roderick [TS]

  analyze I wouldn't I wouldn't suck on a [TS]

  hot dog for all the tea in China you [TS]

  don't want that i want to eat that and [TS]

  and forget that it's that sir is [TS]

  everything alright with your meal [TS]

  you don't suck on hot water but i know i [TS]

  was inside the tastemakers i'm sure i [TS]

  was playing Dig Dug uh-huh and chris [TS]

  gill showed up now Chris kills lived a [TS]

  couple doors down from me Chris skills [TS]

  was not a it wasn't the tallest kid but [TS]

  crystals was a good skier who's better [TS]

  skier than I was and he was very cool he [TS]

  was much much cooler than me and my best [TS]

  friend Kevin Horning went through a [TS]

  phase early on in high school where [TS]

  Kevin wanted to hang out with Chris [TS]

  kills crystals was too cool to hang out [TS]

  with me [TS]

  so what that meant was that Kevin was [TS]

  hanging out with chris and not with me [TS]

  right i did not get all I did not get [TS]

  invited along to the crystals party [TS]

  dance gotta reach chris was like always [TS]

  kind of he found me a little [TS]

  contemptible but he was you know he was [TS]

  friendly enough but it was one of those [TS]

  scenes where I would you know we'd be [TS]

  sitting around and i would say something [TS]

  funny and everybody like haha yeah [TS]

  Roderick funny and then I would take it [TS]

  too far and I'd say the next thing and [TS]

  crystals was the one that was like a ya [TS]

  NE that I know that phenomenon to its [TS]

  it's like you just got like a be ob- [TS]

  laughs and then you completely undid all [TS]

  of your work with the one joke too much [TS]

  too much and then everybody minute f- [TS]

  they all turned their backs on you and [TS]

  you know kevin was my best friend right [TS]

  so he didn't turn his back on me he [TS]

  wanted me to [TS]

  he wanted me to make it he wanted me to [TS]

  make it over here on the other side [TS]

  where the cool kids were but I just [TS]

  couldn't do it [TS]

  I couldn't put it together it's not that [TS]

  I want didn't want to I just couldn't [TS]

  put it together and Chris kills for me [TS]

  everybody's got a guy that personifies [TS]

  that Christie was the guy for me and [TS]

  even now I mean chris has lost all his [TS]

  hair but he lives in the Bahamas on a [TS]

  sailboat or something like chris is [TS]

  still he's I don't know how he pulls it [TS]

  off you look at his facebook page and [TS]

  there's a picture of him in the [TS]

  Himalayas but he's not riding a camel [TS]

  he's not being a dummy [TS]

  he's just there because he's got some [TS]

  business to do there and then he's going [TS]

  back he's living on his sailboat [TS]

  somewhere in the Bahamas he drives a [TS]

  powder-blue like 72 oldsmobile like what [TS]

  is going on with this guy [TS]

  this isn't what you would expect but [TS]

  anyway so I'm playing dig dug at the [TS]

  Tastee freeze Chris gills for some [TS]

  reason offers me a ride and crystals dad [TS]

  was the first guy to get one of those a [TS]

  ford thunderbirds that looks like a [TS]

  lozenge [TS]

  yeah and I ibuprofen and Chris kills his [TS]

  dad was a doctor he was the kind he had [TS]

  a nakamichi stereo us we're not going to [TS]

  stereo where it popped the tape out and [TS]

  flipped it around who mechanically and [TS]

  then popped it back in so that you [TS]

  didn't get the the slight distortion of [TS]

  a tape being played backwards yeah so [TS]

  true audiophiles look for a cassette [TS]

  deck that can do something like that can [TS]

  pop it out right sure but think about [TS]

  the think about the magazine [TS]

  advertisement for the nakamichi tape [TS]

  deck that popped it out and flipped it [TS]

  over [TS]

  it's hilarious at the time it seemed [TS]

  impossibly modern and now it feels like [TS]

  something from the flintstones I mean [TS]

  it's ok it's a living i remember [TS]

  watching remember it wasn't something [TS]

  that I that you watched it was something [TS]

  that you read in magazines if you saw [TS]

  that nakamichi tape deck add you knew [TS]

  you were reading the right man [TS]

  you seen yes they would only advertising [TS]

  the cool magazine so Chris Chris Chris [TS]

  Cole's dad he was supposed to buy a BMW [TS]

  740i but instead he bought this for this [TS]

  Lawson judged lozenge-shaped forward and [TS]

  that was a symbol to me at least of how [TS]

  cool that Thunderbird was crystals dad [TS]

  will you drop those things are so dated [TS]

  now [TS]

  oh yeah I know but at the time i was [TS]

  very modern very forward so Christians [TS]

  picks me up like says hey you need a [TS]

  ride and I'm like crystals is offering [TS]

  me a ride what's going on is this some [TS]

  kind of thing where he's going to take [TS]

  me out and like pants me somewhere and [TS]

  we're riding and we're just being cool [TS]

  we're just chillin with each other and [TS]

  I'm I'm nervous right because because [TS]

  i'm going to say was something funny and [TS]

  he's gonna be like here at Roderick yeah [TS]

  and then I'm gonna take it too far i'm [TS]

  gonna say something funny and he's gonna [TS]

  think to himself it was a mistake to [TS]

  give John Rocker ride but this is this [TS]

  moment maybe I'm maybe this is the [TS]

  beginning of something right you got it [TS]

  but you're but you're you you're in that [TS]

  mode right you're in that mode [TS]

  yeah and then we're driving along and [TS]

  chris says did you hear van Halen pick [TS]

  the new singer I was like what [TS]

  no really they're gonna keep going and [TS]

  he was like yeah they've been looking [TS]

  for a new singer they just pick somebody [TS]

  and I was like who and he said Sammy [TS]

  Hagar and I knew I mean that appalled me [TS]

  right because yeah Sammy Hagar had a [TS]

  really good song on the heavy metal [TS]

  soundtrack same behavior has had at [TS]

  least four extremely good songs but even [TS]

  by that point even the album that of his [TS]

  that I liked know the other is a [TS]

  lightbox well throughout box is great [TS]

  but I think I can't drive 55 is that the [TS]

  one that had your love is driving me [TS]

  crazy [TS]

  that's a pretty powerful pop songs [TS]

  anyway by even by that point he was he [TS]

  was just he was excruciating to just [TS]

  even be aware of the red rocker you know [TS]

  what's going on around two shows that [TS]

  little wireless Mike climbing things [TS]

  no thank you right and he was like a [TS]

  capuchin monkey in a wig [TS]

  except that it's a one-way ticket to [TS]

  midnight call it heavy metal hitting [TS]

  metal whoo that was a kick-ass lawyer I [TS]

  mean that was like that was a song that [TS]

  that early billy squier cut it on sure [TS]

  but anyway Chris kill says Sammy Hagar's [TS]

  the new singer for van Halen that's the [TS]

  news he never want to hear and but it's [TS]

  like finding out your your your mom [TS]

  married your guidance counselor in the [TS]

  context of this car ride it was [TS]

  fantastic news because I now had [TS]

  something that I hated just naturally [TS]

  hated so much and chris and i could tell [TS]

  the crew skills naturally hated it and [TS]

  it was like we were brothers now we had [TS]

  something to hate together that was so [TS]

  hateful sammy hagar in van Halen that [TS]

  the entire rest of the last 30 years and [TS]

  still bothers me yeah the entire rest of [TS]

  the right we're like haha [TS]

  can you believe it oh my god and then he [TS]

  dropped me off at my house and I was [TS]

  like wow [TS]

  see you later Chris it was like right on [TS]

  see you later Roderick and then of [TS]

  course I never saw him again right on he [TS]

  never wrote in his car could you but you [TS]

  you know that you you did what you [TS]

  needed to do that day [TS]

  that's right I got out of there i made [TS]

  some jokes about sammy hagar van Halen I [TS]

  think we do I don't think we came up [TS]

  with van Hagar somebody else came up [TS]

  with that [TS]

  yeah but we we definitely had we had a [TS]

  good time and I'll I'll always be [TS]

  grateful to then Hagar for giving me [TS]

  that that afternoon with Chris kills but [TS]

  all uh don't go don't do it don't do it [TS]

  don't write you cannot you don't go back [TS]

  to the smiths I'm done I'm done [TS]

  ian mcculloch who of echo and the [TS]

  bunnymen won't you call em on down to LA [TS]

  in the risk you in the early nineties [TS]

  let's say early-to-mid [TS]

  Andy's he did he went around [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  he went around on a tour a solo tour or [TS]

  something where he was playing really [TS]

  small clubs you played the crocodile [TS]

  cafe here like you know 300 capacity and [TS]

  it had about 80 people in it and all 80 [TS]

  people were girls he was he was gorgeous [TS]

  he was very pretty and and I was at the [TS]

  show and he had this he helped this is a [TS]

  tea person audience completely captive [TS]

  and after the show was one of those rare [TS]

  things where every single one of the 80 [TS]

  people stayed to shake his hand and i [TS]

  watch the entire show just one [TS]

  comprehending like why what is going on [TS]

  here [TS]

  I wasn't another unsolved mysteries he [TS]

  playing solo he was playing solo but [TS]

  with a band ok so he was just front guy [TS]

  he did it's not like he had an [TS]

  instrument he just was holding a [TS]

  microphone and they played a lot of echo [TS]

  and the bunnymen tunes and where and [TS]

  everybody was because you know the one [TS]

  got from Mexico moment died so they [TS]

  could never really get back together [TS]

  what the guitar player was the one did [TS]

  all the heavy lifting right was it will [TS]

  sergeant was the same [TS]

  yeah but it was like the bass player of [TS]

  the drummers and I guess yeah I was like [TS]

  a way yeah that was mostly drum machines [TS]

  but but their drummer died right and so [TS]

  it's a spinal tap situation i'm sure but [TS]

  anyway it was this week it was this [TS]

  weird event like you know when John Doe [TS]

  goes around on his own and John Doe is a [TS]

  beautiful man and John toe puts on an [TS]

  unusual show very charismatic but he's [TS]

  very charismatic and i understand it and [TS]

  I understood in McCulloch because he was [TS]

  beautiful and also very charismatic [TS]

  funny guy not Robbie Williams funny but [TS]

  funny but watching the show I was like [TS]

  there's nothing for me to I can sink my [TS]

  teeth into any of this music air and [TS]

  echo and the bunnymen felt I mean I was [TS]

  in love and rockets fan why wouldn't [TS]

  like it on the button they have they [TS]

  also have an ampersand in the middle [TS]

  uh-huh but just couldn't do it couldn't [TS]

  even my colour kinda [TS]

  just feel like echo and the bunnymen [TS]

  it's kind of like a slightly better [TS]

  Smith's not but not a thing that i could [TS]

  really sink my teeth into you know I [TS]

  don't use this word much I think you're [TS]

  trolling me haha i think you're I think [TS]

  you're you're deliberately you're [TS]

  deliberately making this more difficult [TS]

  than it needs to be working on the show [TS]

  are for this episode's going to bend [TS]

  over so I'm trying to bring on trying to [TS]

  bring the patterns out of the woodwork [TS]

  because I know whatever whenever I get [TS]

  whatever I really hit on something [TS]

  that's true i get a lot of pedantic you [TS]

  break your breaking people's frame [TS]

  people don't like the frame broken [TS]

  yeah it doesn't fit the frame low [TS]

  booga-booga I get a lot of actually get [TS]

  professor actually giving you call arm [TS]

  my other one's going to toss out so like [TS]

  anytime I don't know why I mean we talk [TS]

  about godspeed you black emperor we have [TS]

  I feel like we should talk about [TS]

  godspeed you black emperor some I think [TS]

  they're phenomenal their part of it i [TS]

  could get I'm so relieved to hear that [TS]

  their part of that's like loudness is [TS]

  our sixth instrument right like we have [TS]

  guitar bass drums other guitar keyboards [TS]

  and loudness but they got strings [TS]

  strings got like 60 guitars and then [TS]

  they got like a little miniature a [TS]

  string section string section and [TS]

  loudness yeah but I they just did a tour [TS]

  and everybody was at the shows and they [TS]

  were raving about it and I was in maui [TS]

  and they didn't come to maui they played [TS]

  all these places that I could have been [TS]

  should have been would have been who but [TS]

  i know i think they're phenomenal [TS]

  dimension is because like when you think [TS]

  about the certain bands that are so [TS]

  atmospheric and npv was what was your [TS]

  other one the cure but like sometimes [TS]

  when i first started getting into them [TS]

  what 2000 2001 2002 something like that [TS]

  oh and must know when I had my ipod [TS]

  though anyway I've been listening to [TS]

  them when i was on muni and when it was [TS]

  when the train will go into the tunnel [TS]

  hmm it's a bad time to be listening to [TS]

  godspeed you black and well when the [TS]

  train goes into the tunnel it's like [TS]

  with my finger here right [TS]

  that's an allegory Laura for when the [TS]

  Sailor meets the girl in the surf like [TS]

  you know beyond kissing beyond kissing [TS]

  one boy loves a girl very much his lips [TS]

  can keep his mind and nothing else [TS]

  listen to god speed black emperor in my [TS]

  wallet full of blood into the taraval [TS]

  other merchants the merchants are mad [TS]

  your local merchants there and we're [TS]

  gonna make things to make the terrible [TS]

  safer and run better and they're mad [TS]

  about losing parking [TS]

  they always do that to make it run [TS]

  better yeah it's a lot it's a lot like I [TS]

  got speed you black emperor some time [TS]

  said well you check them out that makes [TS]

  me feel good [TS]

  oh yeah for sure for shizzle my bruh i [TS]

  have not seen them live i tried to [TS]

  introduce my mom to glad Godspeed black [TS]

  Emperor because it seemed like the type [TS]

  of thing that would like that she would [TS]

  turn up in her whole house would like [TS]

  resonate like a like a drum but by that [TS]

  point she had really gotten too far into [TS]

  slash's snakepit to really back out some [TS]

  so what mom has taken a she's taking a [TS]

  left turn for many many years she had [TS]

  impeccable taste [TS]

  she would play like all the early Pink [TS]

  Floyd records like she was just crank [TS]

  kuma kuma and uh you know and all she [TS]

  had every Sabbath record and when [TS]

  Sabbath transition to do she had no [TS]

  problem with it she just she made that [TS]

  bump just fine but not a time [TS]

  no not at the time but later yeah I you [TS]

  know all the all the Zeppelin have [TS]

  everybody she was completely down with [TS]

  the struggle she had she had a hard time [TS]

  with late eighties metal because she [TS]

  just didn't like the screechy singing [TS]

  but somewhere along the line and this is [TS]

  i don't i can't i can't say for sure i [TS]

  don't know whether indie-rock got in her [TS]

  head and threw off her natural balance [TS]

  her you know what she was trying to do [TS]

  what she was trying to replicate the [TS]

  feeling that she had listening to [TS]

  Rachmaninoff in metal right she she said [TS]

  she said I get it [TS]

  this is this is Rachmaninoff in the form [TS]

  of guitar music and i am into it and she [TS]

  had a parametric eq and she would eq [TS]

  kind of the bubbles out and and push the [TS]

  base all the way up and she would sit in [TS]

  just like her house with just thunder [TS]

  but somewhere along the line and this is [TS]

  I'm embarrassed to say this she listened [TS]

  to Crede and she responded very very [TS]

  intimate John and and from Creed well [TS]

  she went two directions from imagine a [TS]

  little leap she heard muse and muse was [TS]

  her favorite band all of a sudden and [TS]

  whatever means would come to town she [TS]

  would go to the show she would buy a [TS]

  ticket she didn't want to sit in the [TS]

  front row she did she was fine sitting [TS]

  up in the stands way up in the stands [TS]

  because that the you know the base would [TS]

  really developed by the time it got to [TS]

  her and so if you can picture my 77-year [TS]

  old mom at the time sitting way up in [TS]

  the stands at the muse concert by [TS]

  herself having the time of her life [TS]

  right she would just go by herself she's [TS]

  you know I wouldn't be in town or [TS]

  something and she's like I'm gonna go [TS]

  see mios really into music but then also [TS]

  into creed and then here's where goes [TS]

  crazy she went got into all the bands [TS]

  that were off sheets of the creek family [TS]

  of bands [TS]

  ok so a lot of what you would you call [TS]

  John rock music grunge i mean it's it's [TS]

  what grungy evolved into after after [TS]

  everybody pronounced grunge as a title [TS]

  of things [TS]

  Oh sort of like the way new order was a [TS]

  disco band [TS]

  yeah right okay listen to disco anymore [TS]

  except back to contribute an active and [TS]

  so there's almost like post-christian [TS]

  don't go doo-doo-doo-doo dole dog to [TS]

  continually don't get too drunk it's [TS]

  like seven string guitars are a lot of [TS]

  drop D tuning and people going [TS]

  yeah i'm gonna simmer down well where [TS]

  judge Albright demo account junk down [TS]

  its fucking grunge and it's the worst [TS]

  part of ground and it was turned into a [TS]

  whole genre that I kind of lump in with [TS]

  like the kid rock family of bands [TS]

  yeah sure where it's just like she'll do [TS]

  a little investigating what's left [TS]

  biscuit limp bizkit is the biggest crime [TS]

  against humanity like limp bizkit the [TS]

  ones are a little rappy [TS]

  yeah but I think enough they were there [TS]

  like a grunge band 7-string guitar [TS]

  grunge band with the worst human ever [TS]

  produced by the collision of a sperm and [TS]

  an egg like there is a room in my dick [TS]

  cheney donald rumsfeld underground [TS]

  desert isolation that concentration [TS]

  dungeon and concentration dungeon and uh [TS]

  and LSD test facility won't say that on [TS]

  the side [TS]

  no no I there is no sign right the sign [TS]

  says that sign says biological research [TS]

  area raise please uh you have a gps [TS]

  coordinates closely-held and a team [TS]

  looks like regular desert on top but [TS]

  there is a room for fred durst there and [TS]

  it might be right next to cheney and [TS]

  they might they might have lunch [TS]

  together right i mean because each would [TS]

  are you forming a form of torture to the [TS]

  other [TS]

  oh right like but Fred Fred Durst makes [TS]

  me so angry he made me so angry the day [TS]

  he arrived on the scene any success he's [TS]

  ever had makes me angry any even things [TS]

  that i would consider failures but he [TS]

  would consider successes [TS]

  I hate I hate on I hate on behalf of the [TS]

  world and I do i would i would put him [TS]

  in a room with a sink and a steal at a [TS]

  metal bed a prison bed and I would [TS]

  gradually over the course of many many [TS]

  months add just trace amounts of LSD [TS]

  into his water and then I would [TS]

  gradually move the walls of his room so [TS]

  that it was no longer square but not not [TS]

  really no we couldn't [TS]

  there's no reference point like the like [TS]

  gradually the bed would also stop being [TS]

  square it would be a little bit narrower [TS]

  at one end and a little bit wider at the [TS]

  other but that would be true of the room [TS]

  to look at where the dead inexplicably [TS]

  rose about an inch over the course of a [TS]

  month exactly what they think is getting [TS]

  shorter [TS]

  he's going to write his shoes should get [TS]

  a gig like the scene from Amelie right [TS]

  with the shoes are just slightly getting [TS]

  smaller bear and the then the dimensions [TS]

  rumor changing but all the other things [TS]

  in the rumor [TS]

  also changing so the lines still look [TS]

  parallel so he's looking down the line [TS]

  of the bed and it's still parallel with [TS]

  the wall but it does but it seems like a [TS]

  it seems like a rhombus now I would do [TS]

  that to him I would do it i would watch [TS]

  the videos i would watch the [TS]

  closed-circuit camera of him trying to [TS]

  navigate this new space slightly [TS]

  tripping on LSD but not quite enough to [TS]

  identify what was going on i would do [TS]

  that for hours i would i would cackle I [TS]

  would eat I would eat microwave popcorn [TS]

  what would he have a chance to to to [TS]

  make good what do you know he could have [TS]

  these are old [TS]

  well I would you know is i would do this [TS]

  as a form of pleasure torture [TS]

  uh-huh and then ultimately when I when I [TS]

  had exhausted the pleasure of driving [TS]

  him insane i would throw him into a pit [TS]

  i would throw him into a a poop it and [TS]

  then I would set it on fire [TS]

  that is how i feel about printers wow I [TS]

  would do that that's a very strong [TS]

  feeling jealous i would quit my job [TS]

  which i don't think i would quit my [TS]

  daughters get a job and quit and make my [TS]

  job is boring torturing a Fred Durst and [TS]

  Dick Cheney and Donald you know all the [TS]

  other like hagiography that's happening [TS]

  for Scalia now now boy here we go where [TS]

  everybody is like you know what we all [TS]

  hate and get a marker here just for [TS]

  purposes we all hated him while he was [TS]

  alive and we still kinda hate him [TS]

  got a family did but you know what it [TS]

  was a smart guy [TS]

  no yeah no worries good writer a funny [TS]

  guy yeah and all this like oh you know [TS]

  what he was the one that recommended [TS]

  Elena Kailyn are rbg considers him a [TS]

  good buddy a good path I bet they had [TS]

  fun but that's a times [TS]

  Ruth Bader they had they laughed they [TS]

  cried [TS]

  everybody loved him and the fact that he [TS]

  was a monster another agent would have [TS]

  called him a garbage person turn turn [TS]

  back the clock and ruined not just the [TS]

  judiciary but America being articulate [TS]

  about hating people does not make you a [TS]

  good person that's exactly right he's a [TS]

  good writer but does not make you a good [TS]

  person very very articulate and very [TS]

  clean [TS]

  he was very smug use a clean old man but [TS]

  yeah unredeemable but the thing is in [TS]

  all the years I never wanted him in my [TS]

  torture dungeon [TS]

  that torture dungeon is is reserved for [TS]

  women Lawrence eagle Burger has a room [TS]

  there and he was just following orders [TS]

  right he was just he was just following [TS]

  orders but he's got I think we're out [TS]

  not all right all right Lauren sequel [TS]

  burger I'm gonna let him i'm gonna sit [TS]

  him in a in a concrete room but you make [TS]

  my trusty John could he made me do [TS]

  laundry that's exactly right that's [TS]

  exactly what I let him make a case out [TS]

  and he can you know he can he can do the [TS]

  sweeping up the laundry he can take he [TS]

  can take the twins out of the cold bath [TS]

  between Z column first with that's what [TS]

  the fuck the focus of your existential [TS]

  existential punishment dungeon being [TS]

  Frederick's pick that back they would be [TS]

  that they would be the two sides of you [TS]

  know like there's the fred durst side [TS]

  and there's the dick cheney's just call [TS]

  my boys keep the hot side hot and not [TS]

  say how that old days fresh yep [TS]

  mhm uh so yeah limp bizkit unredeemable [TS]

  I mean you know their song I did it for [TS]

  the nookie [TS]

  oh that's right they did do it for the [TS]

  nokia forgot about that and so you can [TS]

  have this cookie and shove it up your [TS]

  ass [TS]

  it's a line that's a lot huh well as the [TS]

  other band it was like limp biscuit was [TS]

  another there's another band that was [TS]

  like that right to talk about the one [TS]

  that had two lead singers the rapper and [TS]

  singer [TS]

  oh maybe I'm trying to because they call [TS]

  a new metal is that what it's called [TS]

  nu-metal and you and unions madill ok [TS]

  you're uh you're thinking maybe a linkin [TS]

  park [TS]

  Linkin Park that's exactly exactly what [TS]

  i was thinking of seven string guitars [TS]

  Linkin Park but Lincoln Park had a [TS]

  curious thing like they had it they had [TS]

  a singer in a wrapper in my estimation [TS]

  the rapper was somewhat superfluous but [TS]

  the singer actually could sing before [TS]

  and they and their music did not take on [TS]

  the grossly misogynistic and genre [TS]

  bending garbage person music if we still [TS]

  call it that that that is limp bizkit [TS]

  Linkin Park was just a bad that you're [TS]

  like to I like this do not like this [TS]

  yeah that there is no way you could like [TS]

  limp biscuit [TS]

  I don't care if you were seven years old [TS]

  like and I or not none can be forgiven [TS]

  for this one can be forget concord about [TS]

  the band Korn they had backwards can [TS]

  then get Slipknot in corn seed that was [TS]

  like that was that was grungy metal or [TS]

  mentally grunge sometimes kind of joke [TS]

  band though right [TS]

  what Slipknot home i think i'm losing it [TS]

  all to getting insane clown posse [TS]

  well so don't start with the same client [TS]

  policy but like you know talk about [TS]

  jugglers in a long time [TS]

  Slipknot well juggalos kinda they went [TS]

  through the looking glass with me when [TS]

  I'm we're on the other side of it now [TS]

  cosplay you start to respect it yeah I [TS]

  respect because of because that kid came [TS]

  up here and explain to me that would [TS]

  explain to me the philosophy of juggalo [TS]

  ism yes I ever since then I've been like [TS]

  you know what I'm gonna give them a pass [TS]

  i mean i don't want to I don't want to [TS]

  go to the gathering [TS]

  I don't want to accidentally be I don't [TS]

  want to be on a plane that crashes and [TS]

  actually crashes into the gathering [TS]

  Oh like it would be like a juggling [TS]

  convention and the aortic Shriners on [TS]

  the plane I don't want to I don't want [TS]

  somebody to drug me put me in the trunk [TS]

  of a car and i wake up at the Catherine [TS]

  I want to make the Juggalos yeah what I [TS]

  want but I left it's like live and let [TS]

  live [TS]

  uh-huh I feel like slipknot was only a [TS]

  joke band in the same way that war was [TS]

  ok what I mean would you give guaro pass [TS]

  it's interesting that's interesting [TS]

  because this gets us a don't know this [TS]

  is where we want to go but like you got [TS]

  like these somewhere you get these bands [TS]

  that are kind of like a humorous rock [TS]

  bands you got joke bands you got bands [TS]

  with a bit right and there's this weird [TS]

  Venn diagram though where you could in [TS]

  some really weird Venn diagram a person [TS]

  could put they might be giants and [TS]

  slipping on the same Venn diagram window [TS]

  you're right I see what you're saying [TS]

  you see what I'm saying yeah but how do [TS]

  you feel about how do you feel about the [TS]

  dwarves I don't know the door as well [TS]

  but like weird al weird out he does [TS]

  comedy rock [TS]

  yeah he does that we're now and they [TS]

  might be giants don't belong in the same [TS]

  universe really no I mean we're now is a [TS]

  weirdo is a wonderful man i understand [TS]

  and he is a cultural treasure [TS]

  yeah but they might be giants are our [TS]

  giants arli writing genius I I don't [TS]

  diss [TS]

  agreed i'm talking someone about what [TS]

  where people would put them you know [TS]

  genre wise oh sure I mean let's say I [TS]

  agree i think that I mean I'm not here [TS]

  to get there but they get play good [TS]

  attention they're one of my favorite [TS]

  pants [TS]

  that's right that's you you have covered [TS]

  that band uh I have yeah you did your [TS]

  pet name song [TS]

  yeah I don't know if they've ever [TS]

  covered me and that seems like something [TS]

  that they should probably do a seat [TS]

  cover that song about divorce about you [TS]

  know what's that song say so much who [TS]

  i'm on how do you know my chill about [TS]

  marriott san slabs happiness but it [TS]

  generally does not sound like that why [TS]

  do i do that no I don't know you have to [TS]

  seize loves happiness that's not well [TS]

  occasionally doing Jerry Lewis there's a [TS]

  little teeny you you gotta teach me [TS]

  yes unhappiness can see them of his sad [TS]

  little similarity but your but you are [TS]

  making a muppet boys and my brother was [TS]

  hanging there [TS]

  oh no that's you know what he sounds [TS]

  like that the Smiths they need to change [TS]

  they need a change [TS]

  I didn't hear that last part John how do [TS]

  you feel about Marilyn Manson struck [TS]

  band I would take that as a joke band [TS]

  wow I had a friend that used to work [TS]

  with him at peaches in boca and he was a [TS]

  laughingstock he was he was a silly goth [TS]

  boy who wore like long underwear under [TS]

  his torn up jeans and he was just he was [TS]

  a very silly guy but you know good for [TS]

  him huh [TS]

  good for him well now here's my Marilyn [TS]

  Manson experience i want to see them in [TS]

  a big stadium show ya with the whole [TS]

  opening and I went as a joke I was like [TS]

  I'm gonna go see Marilyn Manson hole [TS]

  right right [TS]

  the two worst things after limited like [TS]

  whole Melissa after more little lived [TS]

  through this was a spectacular record it [TS]

  really was i really loved it and I some [TS]

  pretty great tunes but there was nothing [TS]

  about hole that I could I mean you know [TS]

  like the whole like we're a band it's [TS]

  not that we're it's the no doubt problem [TS]

  right that everybody was like yeah [TS]

  you're it's sure it's Wednesday funny [TS]

  and they're like no we're a bad but is [TS]

  an equal part in Destiny's Child and so [TS]

  so whole you know like Eric erlandson [TS]

  and Patty schmell I mean like you i'm [TS]

  saying that right Melissa after more so [TS]

  that in our graph tomorrow [TS]

  she's very attractive she's only in that [TS]

  band because they lost their other bass [TS]

  player huh to the drugs [TS]

  oh right the drugs the drugs but like [TS]

  Courtney was just so problematic and by [TS]

  that point by that point in their career [TS]

  they had made the record that she did [TS]

  10,000 interviews about like this was [TS]

  there rumors right we're gonna miss ya [TS]

  no no that's a great that's a great tune [TS]

  from great album great record but by the [TS]

  time she was touting her new record as [TS]

  the new rumors and then it came out and [TS]

  it was like not only is this not the new [TS]

  rumors no celebrity skin celebrities [TS]

  haha yes I don't remember there's a lot [TS]

  of lot of press about that this is not [TS]

  only the new rumors this is the new this [TS]

  isn't up to the standard of the third [TS]

  Whitesnake album right like this is mom [TS]

  this is no good no good [TS]

  this is no this is Whitesnake level no [TS]

  good and so I went to this concert [TS]

  marilyn manson come on of a fault the [TS]

  whole this is gonna be I'm gonna have so [TS]

  much fun i'm gonna fill a 64 ounce cup [TS]

  with semen having fun fucking with this [TS]

  show right and I was standing on the [TS]

  side of the stage because of who I am I [TS]

  get to do things like that because I'm i [TS]

  could have both privilege and i'm also [TS]

  very important [TS]

  wait on the way you get privilege which [TS]

  you acknowledge right but it is a [TS]

  different thing which is that you [TS]

  actually are legitimately important yeah [TS]

  that's right you're different from a lot [TS]

  of people would just have privilege [TS]

  there's a lot of privilege that's [TS]

  unexamined I have examined mine and [TS]

  found it to be appropriate [TS]

  this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

  brought to you in part by Squarespace [TS]

  you start building your website today at [TS] and you enter that offer [TS]

  code supertrain at checkout that'll get [TS]

  you ten percent off your first purchase [TS]

  when it comes to giving yourself a place [TS]

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  Squarespace they put all the power you [TS]

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  pain points [TS]

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  Squarespace can help you with all that [TS]

  Squarespace you can build a site that [TS]

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  Squarespace has state-of-the-art [TS]

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  Squarespace is trusted by millions of [TS]

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  that the site site templates on [TS]

  Squarespace are stunning to look at [TS]

  they're so gorgeous [TS]

  they all have responsive design that [TS]

  means they are going to look great on [TS]

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  out of the box is just getting started [TS]

  Squarespace has tons of awesome features [TS]

  they got 24 x seven support with live [TS]

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  straight out of the box and of course [TS]

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  sure to use the offer code super train [TS]

  will get you ten percent off your first [TS]

  purchase and it will show him a little [TS]

  bit of love for chronic Roderick on the [TS]

  line or thank Squarespace for supporting [TS]

  rod on the line [TS]

  Squarespace you should so I'm standing [TS]

  on the side of the stage and the check [TS]

  next to me is dan Savage who reports [TS]

  that this is the first rock concert he's [TS]

  ever been to man up until this point in [TS]

  his life he had only gone to drag shows [TS]

  and broadway shows right because he was [TS]

  a certain he was from a certain era of [TS]

  being a gay man where you just liked [TS]

  Broadway he'd never been to a rock [TS]

  concert of any kind he had no rock now [TS]

  that's so weird and so he stood next to [TS]

  me throughout the show and I was like [TS]

  whispering in his ear [TS]

  what was happening bc this dan this is a [TS]

  base this is an electric bass now you [TS]

  were like your spirit guide [TS]

  yeah but it doesn't sound like an [TS]

  electric bass right now because he's [TS]

  running it through a machine that makes [TS]

  it sound all karate and dams like okay [TS]

  karate and I was like yeah basis low [TS]

  sound but it sounds high right now [TS]

  because of this box is running through [TS]

  intense like okay [TS]

  is that something I should care about [TS]

  and I'm like no no you don't have to [TS]

  care about that and it would be like [TS]

  good good good [TS]

  ok I got it so tell me what I should [TS]

  care about and I'm like well here's what [TS]

  you should care about you know like [TS]

  where was it was fun to do to take [TS]

  somebody that I that I knew and liked [TS]

  and walk him through rock music as [TS]

  though he had never heard it because it [TS]

  he actually had never heard but then so [TS]

  this is going on through all the opening [TS]

  bands and the first band was monster [TS]

  magnet right which I actually kind of [TS]

  like they were a little bit of a funny [TS]

  metal band but they were more metal than [TS]

  funny or like rock metal mhm like [TS]

  Monster Magnet walk down through monster [TS]

  magnet whole came on we both we both [TS]

  shared a an intrinsic understanding of [TS]

  what Courtney Love was can be because of [TS]

  his background because of his back right [TS]

  at that point he probably brought a lot [TS]

  of lot of knowledge he was like aha i [TS]

  seen that before I see this now and I [TS]

  was like yes to this needs no explaining [TS]

  but then Marilyn Manson took the stage [TS]

  and I had I was wearing my Technicolor [TS]

  irony coat and and was ready for this [TS]

  ship comes out and proceeds with all of [TS]

  his serial killer named clown families [TS]

  proceeds to put on an extraordinary rock [TS]

  show a fucking massive stadium grade [TS]

  rock show that i SAT back in my heels [TS]

  was like this is phenomenal [TS]

  there is nothing funny about this it is [TS]

  huge like the music is huge the show is [TS]

  huge i was completely converted to the [TS]

  marilyn manson cause not not even not [TS]

  not so there was no irony left in me so [TS]

  much so that when he came back to town I [TS]

  went of my own volition not to laugh but [TS]

  to celebrate [TS]

  whoa like this is this is rock and roll [TS]

  in the next time he came through he [TS]

  wasn't a stadium band anymore he was [TS]

  playing the big theater and it was [TS]

  fucking great [TS]

  he he threw a microphone a roadie he I [TS]

  mean all the things you're not supposed [TS]

  to do he transgressed not only our [TS]

  societal expectations of gender and [TS]

  power but he also he also challenged my [TS]

  knowledge of how you're supposed to [TS]

  treat your staff [TS]

  it was terrible justjust from an HR [TS]

  standpoint he's bringing something new [TS]

  he wasn't just walking around in a dirty [TS]

  jock strap [TS]

  he was throwing microphones at his own [TS]

  guys and I was like that's pretty rock [TS]

  and roll that seems like something you [TS]

  would do if you were like legitimately [TS]

  on drugs and and I've when I see a [TS]

  stadium Rock Show I assume that every [TS]

  single thing that happens on the stage [TS]

  is choreographed and part of the show [TS]

  sure I saw Metallica one time where they [TS]

  set the set the main PA on fire you know [TS]

  that without a plan and they had to [TS]

  shave and turn on the house lights and [TS]

  move the audience back 80 feet from the [TS]

  stage and the fire department came in [TS]

  and I was like this is all part of the [TS]

  show I mean I was fucking baked right [TS]

  but I was this is part of the show now I [TS]

  don't think you could do that as part of [TS]

  the show but they set the PA on fire [TS]

  come on if that's not part of the show [TS]

  they should make it part of the show [TS]

  every subsequent night of this to her [TS]

  yeah if you didn't have a plan for that [TS]

  you'll be filling out a lot forms every [TS]

  night [TS]

  yeah right exactly exactly nobody wants [TS]

  a great white situation [TS]

  oh god but uh but Marilyn Manson you [TS]

  know they did something that that no one [TS]

  can ever take away from me which is that [TS]

  I saw Marilyn mansion show and I came [TS]

  out the other side and [TS]

  I'm sitting next to Dan and I'm like [TS]

  this is blowing my mind and Ansel [TS]

  watching it as a Broadway show [TS]

  sure what I mean can take it away from [TS]

  the guys before [TS]

  the guys before [TS]

  former it sounds like you know I mean [TS]

  he's taking more than one note from [TS]

  alice cooper about how to like put on a [TS]

  mind-blowing show but with the [TS]

  technologies got available that must be [TS]

  pretty amazing and you know he didn't do [TS]

  the Alice Cooper thing where it's like [TS]

  I'm gonna be head of a tonight onstage [TS]

  with the guillotine [TS]

  yeah he was doing a thing that was that [TS]

  was purporting to be live and in the [TS]

  moment I didn't feel good didn't feel [TS]

  campy it wasn't it was extremely can't [TS]

  be my god they were they were dressed [TS]

  like they were dressed like a they were [TS]

  all dressed like the the main villain [TS]

  road warrior who write and they were [TS]

  doing that thing remember when he [TS]

  remember when the the bad guy and I [TS]

  forget his name but the bad guy the road [TS]

  warrior he jumps on the back of a car he [TS]

  rides it in through the gate and then [TS]

  he's inside the compound and he looks [TS]

  around and everybody's like it's him the [TS]

  mohawk and there and now it's like what [TS]

  we do and he jumps jumps on from on top [TS]

  of the car to on top of the truck gets [TS]

  up on the wall kills a guy runs along [TS]

  everybody's there Mel Gibson's there [TS]

  they're all like got to get him and he [TS]

  stops right on the gate and he looks [TS]

  back and he goes high and it's an [TS]

  overdub sound who you know it's like him [TS]

  going [TS]

  ah but it but it's too stereophonic to [TS]

  really be from him uh-huh but that's [TS]

  exactly how he would sound like that's [TS]

  exactly right [TS]

  sure and then he jumps down and he gets [TS]

  away how does he do that [TS]

  how did you get from inside outside that [TS]

  is what Marilyn Manson's band looked [TS]

  like to me and they were all saying to [TS]

  this audience of 14 year olds do drugs [TS]

  do drugs which was hilarious [TS]

  on the face of it as a kind of response [TS]

  to the PMRC that's ten and a half years [TS]

  to too late now the install the same no [TS]

  drug stuff around for a pretty long time [TS]

  yeah that's true but he's like do drugs [TS]

  and all the 14 year olds are like I will [TS]

  and dan Savage was like this is [TS]

  fantastic and I agreed agreed that it [TS]

  was fantastic i'll give it another try [TS]

  I'll drop the needle on some some [TS]

  marilyn manson I don't know if it's [TS]

  gonna I don't know if it's just alive [TS]

  if if it will if you can put it on the [TS]

  stereo and really and really take it but [TS]

  I think there's something there there's [TS]

  something there there was something [TS]

  there [TS]

  what about see for some reason a funny [TS]

  one for me is nine inch nails because [TS]

  nine inch nails had their first big [TS]

  single at a time when I was going lots [TS]

  of new at night to gay bars and dancing [TS]

  a lot [TS]

  yeah and at the time I got up I could [TS]

  have if i could watch a VHS tape of you [TS]

  dancing who had a lot of amaretto sours [TS]

  buddy i would i would pay but this is a [TS]

  time where like so you would still here [TS]

  if the my heyday for this was gonna say [TS]

  80 to 89 90 91 ish but especially I'm [TS]

  gonna say 89 i was doing on there's a [TS]

  lot of that was a fun time for me [TS]

  there's a lot of great rock music and a [TS]

  lot of great but at the same time I was [TS]

  I was borrowing well i was gonna say I [TS]

  was far away most advanced like Pixies [TS]

  but i was also super in hip-hop that's [TS]

  the most i've ever been into hip-hop if [TS]

  it was that or summer of the summer of [TS]

  fight the power but also i love dance [TS]

  music I really love it especially love [TS]

  stuff like paid in full [TS]

  like I love the like the acrobatics of [TS]

  like hip-hop as dance music which you [TS]

  know wasn't always a thing like people [TS]

  did not really dance to run DMC know you [TS]

  have like we have like a dump like [TS]

  turntable is doing something like taking [TS]

  you know as I had a 12-inch where they [TS]

  had the long version of pain full with i [TS]

  want you back by the Jackson 5 over it [TS]

  it was like six of the greatest thing [TS]

  I've ever heard in my life I coming so [TS]

  what engineers came up with this is [TS]

  originally do you know hip-hop was dance [TS]

  music because that's where they invented [TS]

  the the breakdancing yeah I know but I [TS]

  mean I butBut you think about you think [TS]

  about the other early Run DMC which is [TS]

  great for the time was pretty stiff it [TS]

  that they did not have a lot of what we [TS]

  came to call flow to it [TS]

  oh yeah but anyway but when I want the [TS]

  top of the beach i would go to yeah i [TS]

  would go to uh you know new ignited a [TS]

  gay bar or whatever local bars why we [TS]

  played at your school band played it [TS]

  would also have new wave night we would [TS]

  go there a lot and pretty cheap drinks [TS]

  and so the total package but like any [TS]

  given night [TS]

  unix you could expect to hear this same [TS]

  like amazing in retrospect amazingly [TS]

  dissonant handful of songs so you might [TS]

  hear that Harley the son-of-a-bitch you [TS]

  might hear bring the eighth advice [TS]

  remember that track you might hear [TS]

  laibach you might hear you would [TS]

  certainly add some boy huh [TS]

  you can be my cowgirl that was more like [TS]

  mekinese this little bit then you here [TS]

  but then you would always hear the long [TS]

  version 2 12 inch version of gigantic by [TS]

  Pixies and you would always hear of [TS]

  course when it wants to cut big head [TS]

  like a hole would bring the kids out [TS]

  that had like a whole really brought [TS]

  people out on the dance floor and the [TS]

  thing is though at the time someone [TS]

  trying to get at is that was a funny [TS]

  pivot time for me and music and my [TS]

  understanding is because you're going [TS]

  from like the super kind of silly gothy [TS]

  eighties miss of the of the Gothic bands [TS]

  right and it's before it's around a [TS]

  little in again go back to the very [TS]

  beginning of the show think about [TS]

  ministry yet the Ministry of everyday is [TS]

  Halloween and then you've got the [TS]

  Ministry of Psalm 69 and those are like [TS]

  really that's a very very different band [TS]

  so this is around that time and so I [TS]

  wasn't sure where where I had like a [TS]

  whole and the same and nitrogen I wasn't [TS]

  sure quite where nine inch nails fixed [TS]

  because uh because I know them from that [TS]

  one tune but like I think in a way they [TS]

  were much more forward-looking that I [TS]

  realized at the time because i'm still [TS]

  kind of up in the men within like an [TS]

  industrial dance music if you think [TS]

  about 1989 it's kind of a watershed [TS]

  moment which is to say that throughout [TS]

  the eighties popular music with in [TS]

  popular music there was no aspect of it [TS]

  that was hard or time and by hard I [TS]

  don't mean like hard rock I mean hard [TS]

  like they're like your soul is harder [TS]

  your fists are hard it's just I mean [TS]

  that the production of stuff was pretty [TS]

  thin lot of the time yeah and-and-and [TS]

  soft right cough up until that point the [TS]

  whole the governing aesthetic of it was [TS]

  we're sad things are seeing suck [TS]

  well I like one of my favorite passion [TS]

  that time absolutely was a the cocteau [TS]

  twins arm and you know that was my god [TS]

  it was like it was like listening to a [TS]

  spider [TS]

  being built right not like the [TS]

  thunderous stuff that would soon come [TS]

  along but in 1989 there was a moment [TS]

  where where goth got hard and it wasn't [TS]

  it wasn't sad anymore and it wasn't that [TS]

  it was mad [TS]

  it was resigned to the fact that [TS]

  vivisection was in our future right that [TS]

  it was it was reporting now on a reality [TS]

  on a future reality that they could see [TS]

  where we all became cyborgs that shit in [TS]

  a bag right like side of the one part [TS]

  they couldn't engineer out of us cyborgs [TS]

  that weren't close and will require a [TS]

  bag i must I have clinicals three bag [TS]

  like if we have all the information of [TS]

  the universe in my brain yet I must poop [TS]

  in bag [TS]

  do you remember during that that was the [TS]

  crop circle era where lot more animal [TS]

  mutilation was happening in it like you [TS]

  wake up in the morning and there'd be [TS]

  some goats shirt on the fence it was [TS]

  this it was this version of of the [TS]

  future that was well dystopian let's [TS]

  just call it what they called it so so [TS]

  it went from it went from like I'm sad [TS]

  about my girlfriend breaking up with me [TS]

  and so I'm on heroin to like I know that [TS]

  I know that one day I will be splayed on [TS]

  an operating table and a and this is the [TS]

  music that sounds like that and you know [TS]

  in hip-hop it had gone all the way from [TS]

  like we're tough to we are killing cops [TS]

  yeah and nwa I mean public enemy was I [TS]

  think about public any and maybe [TS]

  nineteen eighty six or seven and they [TS]

  were still scary but those are plastic [TS]

  Uzis but it was the NWA NWA was [TS]

  terrifying [TS]

  the thing about something about public [TS]

  enemies it was protest music it was [TS]

  ultimately intellectual it was it was [TS]

  making making a widespread cultural [TS]

  implications [TS]

  which are obviously an artistic [TS]

  statement not to take anything away from [TS]

  the seriousness of their material but [TS]

  they were they were artists what they [TS]

  were and what they were doing with that [TS]

  what they call the bomb squad like what [TS]

  they did with production nothing nothing [TS]

  like that has ever existed before it's [TS]

  still sparkles Terminator x [TS]

  yeah i mean i'm not gonna don't mind [TS]

  doing i'm like 'what 1989 no don't do it [TS]

  out of the fucking driving w your heart [TS]

  because I know you got soul but it dont [TS]

  steps don't bend wa was much more [TS]

  reportage and it was much more localized [TS]

  right they were talking about the world [TS]

  they were talking about even the other [TS]

  side of Los Angeles your cancers with [TS]

  Aaron but they were still dancers like [TS]

  there was a whole show to it [TS]

  yeah yeah but well anyway with scary [TS]

  shit label they had flavor [TS]

  yeah that's true whereas I mean eazy-e [TS]

  was the was the Flavor Flav of nwa but [TS]

  easy he was fucking hard he wasn't he [TS]

  wasn't any that's not to say the flavor [TS]

  was hard but anyway the thing that the [TS]

  world does not need right now is you and [TS]

  me talking about the hip-hop 1989 [TS]

  I don't know man I don't know is things [TS]

  I I don't know it did something to me it [TS]

  did something to me out why no I'm not [TS]

  you but but i would i'm not here to try [TS]

  and sound like I'm hardcore something [TS]

  I'm a white guy was in college but at [TS]

  the same time like there's so much stuff [TS]

  that would not be interesting happening [TS]

  today if it hadn't been for like what [TS]

  was happening then that anything the [TS]

  next video magic personally is that is [TS]

  that the thread at the time there was an [TS]

  equally powerful thread in del assault [TS]

  that was just gonna say that that it's [TS]

  exactly was going to say which is you go [TS]

  from do the right thing to like in the [TS]

  next I think that same summer is when r [TS]

  3 feet high and rising came out and the [TS]

  thing is alongside jungle brothers [TS]

  alongside our tribe called quest along [TS]

  the night on [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah it's not super tmw take [TS]

  your point all those pants the thing was [TS]

  there was no indication that this was [TS]

  piqued hip-hop which I think it kind of [TS]

  was it was very much the sense of like [TS]

  there is no we have no idea where this [TS]

  is gonna go now there is no stop it this [TS]

  could go anywhere after you heard three [TS]

  feet height right high and rising like [TS]

  this there's no limit to this this is [TS]

  different so much you can do here then [TS]

  with rock'n'roll considering that three [TS]

  feet high and dry [TS]

  in and nation of millions you know where [TS]

  were setting the you know the boundaries [TS]

  what what makes me sad is that that [TS]

  thread of tribe called quest lauryn hill [TS]

  in some ways right it went over there [TS]

  and kind of just went it ended up being [TS]

  and that was it that was a direction [TS]

  that like I was very excited about I [TS]

  mean I was all I was also very excited [TS]

  about the other direction you know the [TS]

  in the direction of nwa but I was very [TS]

  excited about this this direction of [TS]

  like socially conscious really clever [TS]

  and you know clever lyrics and clever [TS]

  like groovy production that was this [TS]

  that there was the direction of tribe [TS]

  with della soul being the like having [TS]

  already made revolver and then we're [TS]

  going to go it just kind of like nobody [TS]

  picked up that thread because the energy [TS]

  all went to the energy all went into a [TS]

  different kind of anger and that and i'm [TS]

  still sad about it and went to find its [TS]

  funds all from memory i'm not looking at [TS]

  anything here but I'm remembering a [TS]

  funny like disappointing confluence of [TS]

  things at the time and this is not a [TS]

  value judgment this is just an [TS]

  observation one thing is that it was [TS]

  being part of it was the ascendance of [TS]

  Miami Bass music which was pretty dumb [TS]

  down [TS]

  I mean to say the least it was very it [TS]

  was not in love you long time [TS]

  doodoo brown I mean okay right to the [TS]

  ground I get it doodoo brown and you [TS]

  know it was not really i mean someone [TS]

  was pretty clever the the asian guy in [TS]

  tulip tree was pretty amazing like [TS]

  inspire others that but then you know [TS]

  what else is huge at the time was [TS]

  suddenly like an idealist always kinda [TS]

  alongside biz markie was kind of poster [TS]

  child for this is like people going ok [TS]

  that's enough with the free sampling [TS]

  like you oh that's exactly right we need [TS]

  to clamp down I think you could not get [TS]

  three feet high and rising for a while [TS]

  because stealing it was all fuck you and [TS]

  maybe understandably but they finally [TS]

  had to come up with some way of you know [TS]

  they had to go street-legal with this [TS]

  and there was no longer the wild west of [TS]

  just being able to take you know any [TS]

  change brown drum sample you want or you [TS]

  know George Clinton understandably I [TS]

  think I pretty up in arms about [TS]

  to where he was selling if you could you [TS]

  could basically by his stuff to sample [TS]

  and I think that's still how it works [TS]

  today but anyway i'm saying is there's a [TS]

  few things you had the George W Bush era [TS]

  fuck that you had all you said more and [TS]

  more concerned about the PMRC type stuff [TS]

  which was still you know this cancer all [TS]

  the stuff with you remember all the [TS]

  stuff with the with luther Campbell sure [TS]

  I mean he was like public enemy number [TS]

  one until i see came along [TS]

  what well yeah I mean I steam very much [TS]

  public enemy number one but I mean you [TS]

  know I still consider him to be but i [TS]

  don't know i think there's a lot of [TS]

  stuff happening but then what's the next [TS]

  big jump I don't like the way digital [TS]

  underground of course digital [TS]

  underground think about that like a baby [TS]

  that was an incredible record real Peru [TS]

  that stupid wish [TS]

  I'm sure they're like Cupid these were [TS]

  the domain nothing like to say goodbye [TS]

  because you missed it i'm gonna have [TS]

  said just grabbing the biscuit off it [TS]

  hardware or 12 they might be giants are [TS]

  our digital underground they might be [TS]

  giants hip-hop shock g or or humpty-hump [TS]

  not to help but think about thinking of [TS]

  HUD think about Chucky and what he what [TS]

  he was repin well that record that [TS]

  record had lots of party hits it was fun [TS]

  but also a lot they had some jungle [TS]

  brothers style they had style [TS]

  yeah i mean like there was there [TS]

  something i don't know and i was like [TS]

  general brothers didn't get the credit [TS]

  they deserve [TS]

  I thought they were a lot i mean there [TS]

  was a time when they had their one [TS]

  record that got a lot of play and then [TS]

  was that because it was because of that [TS]

  was just pre the rise of the DJ as the [TS]

  the DJ / producer that words are that [TS]

  sounds that were like collages had this [TS]

  one song that I adored called good news [TS]

  coming [TS]

  that was just like a collage song of all [TS]

  these great things over a beat with [TS]

  these tribal sounds and gospel singing [TS]

  and it wasn't a typical and it ends with [TS]

  this kind of like township music South [TS]

  African kind of like guitar part it's [TS]

  got was still fighting for its [TS]

  transcendent but like then what we get [TS]

  we got house of pain like what what else [TS]

  you got yes Jerry the law go straight to [TS]

  the house of pain that that there was [TS]

  that was the contemporaneous band with [TS]

  house of pain that was like insane in [TS]

  the membrane sure [TS]

  the marijuana guys marijuana get bring [TS]

  first when they called cypress hill [TS]

  cypress hill and yes I personal record [TS]

  that for cyber cell record was pretty [TS]

  killer again that's its again that it [TS]

  was right like i have to say the house [TS]

  of pain like a dingaling band but great [TS]

  production great sound great i wasn't [TS]

  it's on [TS]

  yes sir the great songs the video i get [TS]

  punched in the nose remember that but it [TS]

  didn't yeah that was that all that I [TS]

  feel like what side of the in a way [TS]

  cypress hill was much more [TS]

  well then there's you know there's snoop [TS]

  like when you put Smith yes see that I [TS]

  was not involved it was the first would [TS]

  hang 9393 my god 9300 see you came along [TS]

  at Mouton that was that was they were [TS]

  something else because of the one in [TS]

  there what they were doing was so [TS]

  familiar but so weird and the way that [TS]

  they built this entire the devil's [TS]

  world-building around the whole like [TS]

  wu-tang thing I gotta go soon but we [TS]

  should not talk about Alexander Hamilton [TS]

  at some point world-building around the [TS]

  wu-tang yeah that's yeah I feel like [TS]

  that that's it doesn't Hamilton yet if [TS]

  that isn't your master's thesis than I [TS]

  get a colon after that world-building [TS]

  colon around the world tank thing we're [TS]

  driving around yesterday in the pin hole [TS]

  families driving around listen Alexander [TS]

  Hamilton I was just like this is one of [TS]

  those things that comes along every few [TS]

  years we're like on the one hand I can't [TS]

  believe this didn't happen before now [TS]

  but the fact that it did is like it's [TS]

  still so miraculous like what you [TS]

  watchin you Beyonce video [TS]

  yeah shes black saw that last night [TS]

  wasn't funny had any meal and I was so [TS]

  well done [TS]

  I you know I have not been uh I'm not [TS]

  been around we I you know as much as I [TS]

  don't want to talk about Hamilton with [TS]

  you right now [TS]

  no I don't either so it's over talk but [TS]

  I mean I was ready to just stop the [TS]

  whole thing but now i'm just walking [TS]

  around going on not throwing away my [TS]

  shot I'm just I'm just idea had no idea [TS]

  this would sink in this fast [TS]

  mhm anyway good hip-hop [TS]

  I know not hip-hop i feel i feel [TS]

  somewhat under the obligation to to to [TS]

  actually fill you in with some news [TS]

  oh my goodness but i don't know you know [TS]

  it's it's it's a rough transition we [TS]

  don't normally do this in the sense that [TS]

  i don't normally have anything in mind [TS]

  and I just talked to you on the phone [TS]

  about just wanted two on-the-record [TS]

  speaking on the record in about an hour [TS]

  i have to record a podcast about Top [TS]

  Chef well talk about my new cat but I [TS]

  chef doing to show about Top Chef and [TS]

  how are you going to slip your new cat [TS]

  into a show about Top Chef every week I [TS]

  try to find a way to make the show less [TS]

  about the television program and more [TS]

  about almost anything else I got heat [TS]

  when you do you have a podcast about Top [TS]

  Chef is called top scallops who is this [TS]

  the thing that has been going on for a [TS]

  long time it's only 10 episode yeah [TS]

  oh i see well so it's new i got [TS]

  something you can do in half an hour i'm [TS]

  ready i wouldn't have heard about it [TS]

  well so so as I said right I don't would [TS]

  never heard about it [TS]

  yeah post every time you flush the John [TS]

  you put the picture on Instagram you [TS]

  wouldn't know that I've got a new [TS]

  podcast really well I don't know do you [TS]

  have an Instagram that's kind of where [TS]

  I'm putting a lot of my energy now [TS]

  hmm to get yours isn't John news from [TS]

  John you're still on flickr that you're [TS]

  still committed to the clicker I'm not [TS]

  throwing away my shot [TS]

  hey yo I'm like my country I'm young [TS]

  scrappy and hungry and I'm not throwing [TS]

  away my shot [TS]

  30 you john-john what's up did it to get [TS]

  news from John will you get the crew [TS]

  final answer [TS]

  I uh I recently I had some major [TS]

  developments in the GM CRP front don't [TS]

  know if you noticed but I hadn't been [TS]

  asking i wanted to make sure it gelled [TS]

  is that right you left it alone i left a [TS]

  lot said leave it [TS]

  yeah yeah I know but there but but a lot [TS]

  of stuff has gone down about feel like I [TS]

  could I feel like I could spend a half [TS]

  an hour or more describing it but i [TS]

  won't i just i know that there are a lot [TS]

  of people who have been so who followed [TS]

  along on that story and then everything [TS]

  went radio silent when the gmcr be broke [TS]

  down and was in Redding California [TS]

  and I was trying to navigate the [TS]

  complicated financial and social [TS]

  arrangement January came and went [TS]

  America was wondering yeah and then you [TS]

  know it was there was there was all this [TS]

  trouble with the people there at the at [TS]

  the reading place where they were like [TS]

  look we're good we got to fix this thing [TS]

  if we don't fix it we're going to roll [TS]

  it out of here and roll into a ravine [TS]

  we're actually going to put on the [TS]

  Cure's disintegration and roll it into a [TS]

  ravine and that so i was very you know I [TS]

  was very anxious about it i talked about [TS]

  on this program there was a lot of there [TS]

  was a lot of rigmarole on the Internet [TS]

  where people were like let's just put up [TS]

  a kickstarter and we're all going to [TS]

  give you money and then you and I talked [TS]

  about how that didn't feel right and [TS]

  then I just left it right we were [TS]

  talking about it because I didn't want [TS]

  to talk about but when we last spoke [TS]

  about it [TS]

  where where were we and I said I [TS]

  described the rescue mission and i don't [TS]

  think so i think i think the way we left [TS]

  it was you'd reach something like a date [TS]

  aren't with the RV fixing guy to where [TS]

  you would he was really wanting a [TS]

  go/no-go from you that was hopefully ago [TS]

  but it was sent to you from my unlike [TS]

  was maybe gonna be a no go from you that [TS]

  you had through january you know it if [TS]

  it was a go then you have through [TS]

  january but it was a no-go could get [TS]

  ugly I think that's where we left it [TS]

  right and but it was a thing where if it [TS]

  was a go [TS]

  I i had till the end of january but i [TS]

  had to make the go/no-go decision [TS]

  exactly exactly what I mean like yeah [TS]

  easy it's not it's not a parking lot [TS]

  kind of situation right well after that [TS]

  shortly after that point the black list [TS]

  truly activated itself in a way that we [TS]

  could not do I could not imagine I don't [TS]

  think is duplicatable duplicatable or [TS]

  Duke little blue Duke little bit [TS]

  deplorable wear a cast of black Lister's [TS]

  spearheaded by the great great birch [TS]

  whose grandfather worked at GMC during [TS]

  the development of the RV whose [TS]

  grandfather actually has a namesake [TS]

  version of the gmcr [TS]

  d birch haven named after him great [TS]

  birch who is the dentist and swim with [TS]

  we referred him and swim dentist [TS]

  oh he's a younger guy he's sort of our [TS]

  age successful dental practice and he [TS]

  owns a birthday even his namesake great [TS]

  birch said this is an intolerable [TS]

  situation we need to solve this stranded [TS]

  RV and at the moment I was like I don't [TS]

  want to do a Kickstarter people want to [TS]

  help me I don't you know I don't know [TS]

  how to accept help from people i [TS]

  certainly don't know how to accept money [TS]

  from people great bird says listen I'm [TS]

  in touch with the black list and here's [TS]

  what we've got [TS]

  there's a man named Jerry who owns a [TS]

  barn in red bluff California 30 miles [TS]

  south of redding who has said that he is [TS]

  going to heat their is based in his barn [TS]

  for your RV [TS]

  wow so all we have to do is tell the [TS]

  people in reading at the RV shop that [TS]

  we're not going to put the it's going to [TS]

  be an uncomfortable conversation but [TS]

  we're not going to fix the transmission [TS]

  we're going to patch it back together [TS]

  filling with fluid and then nurse it [TS]

  down to Red Bluff where we're going to [TS]

  put it in the barn and get driving or [TS]

  telling driving [TS]

  whoa and at that point we're going to [TS]

  solve this problem in the bar and I'm [TS]

  like this is some fucking heavy ass [TS]

  black black list shit then I didn't know [TS]

  was I didn't know this was on the table [TS]

  right like black list isn't just your [TS]

  water pump goes out and somebody on [TS]

  somebody in the neighborhood helps you [TS]

  change it which is already amazing [TS]

  that's the great Kelvin of eugene but [TS]

  this is the great great birch and he's [TS]

  saying I he went to the black list and [TS]

  said yo black list and I think his [TS]

  premise was that i was i was potentially [TS]

  an ambassador of GMC RVs [TS]

  and to leave me on the side of the road [TS]

  was going to be bad for the whole [TS]

  community [TS]

  this may have this may have been the [TS]

  pitch that he made I wasn't there so now [TS]

  here's where it gets interesting [TS]

  great birch says I'm going with my wife [TS]

  on a road trip to Reno or tucson or [TS]

  somewhere to meet up with our family and [TS]

  take a boat down the Nile he said I'm [TS]

  gonna be going through there if you can [TS]

  get this thing filled with fluid and [TS]

  pushed into the parking lot of all wheel [TS]

  repair shop and reading i will drive it [TS]

  to read love with my wife in the chase [TS]

  car and I was like this is seriously [TS]

  heavy this is heavy paying it forward [TS]

  support action so great birch goes down [TS]

  with his wife he gets in the RV [TS]

  he says drives great or whatever he's [TS]

  driving at 70 miles an hour down the [TS]

  road he takes it to red bluff puts it in [TS]

  Gary's barn this all happens this all [TS]

  goes down I can't i was going to go down [TS]

  there to do this mission with him but I [TS]

  had I had a gig I had a places to be I [TS]

  couldn't [TS]

  I what I absolutely would have but I [TS]

  could [TS]

  wow so he goes and does this himself and [TS]

  now here is where it gets bananas [TS]

  because gary is this cool cat [TS]

  he's got this big farm this big walnut [TS]

  farm walnut tree farm out in red bluff [TS]

  Greg calls Manny Manny as you recall is [TS]

  the Beethoven of GM cr-v transmissions [TS]

  who lives way up on the hill in San Jose [TS]

  on 10 aces right Greg says Manny listen [TS]

  we got to get a transmission into this [TS]

  rig Manny rebuild the transmission which [TS]

  he can do in eight hours apparently [TS]

  throws it in the back of his truck and [TS]

  drives from san jose de red bluff [TS]

  so now we've got Gary we've got Greg and [TS]

  we've got mainly all converging on this [TS]

  barn and then a fourth guy from the [TS]

  black list whose name I don't know but [TS]

  it's got to be somewhere between Greg [TS]

  Gary and Manny probably get Danny know [TS]

  could be Danny m-maybe Chuck I don't I [TS]

  I'm embarrassed announced that is [TS]

  extraordinary this is this is like a [TS]

  superhero stories is going beyond beyond [TS]

  beyond and the four guys change the [TS]

  transmission in Gary's barn and put a [TS]

  bunch of other things in there you know [TS]

  they what one of the get the fourth guy [TS]

  whose name I can't remember invented [TS]

  some little part that keeps your [TS]

  dashboard from catching on fire [TS]

  well how that he was like listen if you [TS]

  don't put this part in there eventually [TS]

  your dashboard is going to catch on fire [TS]

  so here I'm adding this little part Gary [TS]

  also invented some part for the GMC [TS]

  although i think it's might be a robot [TS]

  airbag system they didn't put it in but [TS]

  so they do this work and it's a [TS]

  situation where it's like four guys and [TS]

  what they what do they want to do on a [TS]

  Saturday well they want to go out and [TS]

  you know they're like old hot rodders [TS]

  they want to go out and work on their [TS]

  car they wanted their like that picture [TS]

  of the five kids in the in the unwashed [TS]

  Levi's all all crowded into the engine [TS]

  compartment of a 54 forward or whatever [TS]

  that iconic photograph is where all you [TS]

  see is their butts her so these four [TS]

  guys are like yeah let's go fix this [TS]

  truck that'll be fun and great birch and [TS]

  Gary part of their motivation is they've [TS]

  always wanted to see Manny replace the [TS]

  transmission because he's the Beethoven [TS]

  of GM cr-v transmissions so so this [TS]

  Saturday comes and great birch is [TS]

  sending me pictures from his phone of [TS]

  like it should here's your RV we've got [TS]

  the transmission out [TS]

  oh here was the problem it was a your [TS]

  main bearing failed [TS]

  now here's the new transmission we're [TS]

  putting it in ok it's in and then he [TS]

  sends me a picture of the four guys [TS]

  standing in front of my RV with their [TS]

  arms around each other [TS]

  and he's like to LA and then Greg virgin [TS]

  is why I think spend the night in my RV [TS]

  and then they get on they get on their [TS]

  road trip head down to Reno or tucson [TS]

  earth or whatever to go down the Nile [TS]

  man he goes back to san jose and Gary [TS]

  says i'll leave it in my barn as long as [TS]

  you want so i went to maui as you do [TS]

  came back bought a ticket I bought a [TS]

  ticket to LA because tom chaplin from [TS]

  keene is making a solo record i went [TS]

  down to sing on it and then instead of [TS]

  flying back to seattle i flew to [TS]

  Sacramento got a car to Red Bluff met [TS]

  Gary there was the RB started it up [TS]

  drove it home just got back [TS]

  day before yesterday with the you know I [TS]

  spent spent the night in the RV a couple [TS]

  of times but the night in the RV and [TS]

  reading and went saw those guys again [TS]

  they did a little bit of extra work on [TS]

  it in the process of changing the [TS]

  transmission the for master mechanics [TS]

  one of them [TS]

  whoever's responsibility was to hook up [TS]

  the spark plugs forgot to connect one of [TS]

  the spark plug so the engine was running [TS]

  a little rough transmission was running [TS]

  great so i went to reading and they did [TS]

  a little bit extra work on it you know [TS]

  because it's nice to throw three or four [TS]

  hundred bucks at this thing every chance [TS]

  you get and then I drove it North i [TS]

  spent the night in Cottage Grove Oregon [TS]

  and then a drug home and I stopped in [TS]

  portland and my good friend Ben King the [TS]

  architect that I met at XOXO festival [TS]

  I'm very close to the end of this story [TS]

  he came out and helped me adjust the [TS]

  timing [TS]

  Wow where he had a timing light and [TS]

  we're looking at it we can't find the we [TS]

  can't find the flywheel because the [TS]

  engine compartment is so crammed and so [TS]

  he was like you know what it means the [TS]

  timing adjustment he just grabbed the [TS]

  distributor kappa just turned 22 degrees [TS]

  with reference to nothing he was just [TS]

  like let's see what happens were and so [TS]

  seeing as he missed an engineer [TS]

  he's very mechanical he's an architect [TS]

  but he had one of those fathers that was [TS]

  like [TS]

  hey let's go out and rebuild a-a-a like [TS]

  a Bronco to this weekend i found a [TS]

  Bronco to at a at a junkyard for a [TS]

  hundred bucks you want to help me [TS]

  rebuild the motor and so he and his son [TS]

  a been King would go out into the [TS]

  driveway and rebuild the motor on a [TS]

  Bronco to like that was their idea of [TS]

  fun it's the same kids with the levis in [TS]

  their head inside the earth the hood of [TS]

  the car just like let's turn a wrench [TS]

  for fun something that seems to me like [TS]

  let's build a Saturn five rocket for fun [TS]

  but so he adjust the timing thing all of [TS]

  a sudden runs better and then we're [TS]

  sitting in been Kings backyard having [TS]

  done this work and we're like Hello and [TS]

  we go around the corner and here's this [TS]

  this old guy 82 years old leave it on [TS]

  the fence and he says I heard there was [TS]

  gmcr be over here with the hood up and I [TS]

  was like are you from the black list and [TS]

  he said got all deep boys like yep [TS]

  oh and i said how did you know and he [TS]

  said somebody came over to the house and [TS]

  said they drove by and there's a GMC [TS]

  down here and so he comes back and he's [TS]

  some 85 year old guy that worked in [TS]

  television back in the day and had all [TS]

  these stories about driving his GMC RV [TS]

  across the country and i realized that i [TS]

  have joined this insane network that's [TS]

  kind of like Specter right where their [TS]

  logo should be an octopus and instead of [TS]

  being a bunch of 35 year-old assassins [TS]

  they are a national network of very [TS]

  quiet [TS]

  eighty-five-year-old assassins I think I [TS]

  think you've you from the answer to a [TS]

  lot of questions John I have no idea [TS]

  what's going on your you have found your [TS]

  secret society [TS]

  I'm easyriders your seal team six except [TS]

  everybody's 80 yeah you drive into a [TS]

  town you park your thing on the side of [TS]

  the road [TS]

  put your flashers on and it's like a [TS]

  beacon call it's like the bat signal [TS]

  suddenly you're surrounded by former [TS]

  NASA engineers who are like I've got a [TS]

  story you ever hear about the USS [TS]

  Lexington and then and there like I [TS]

  invented a part for the GMC and it keeps [TS]

  your keep your wheels from catching on [TS]

  fire here let me install it because [TS]

  that's what i think is fun to do and and [TS]

  so great birch back and swim [TS]

  Gary's back in red bluff Manny's back in [TS]

  san jose i'm back in seattle the circle [TS]

  is complete the GMC is like in the game [TS]

  again and i have a and I have a debt of [TS]

  gratitude to like 40 guys and I feel a [TS]

  renewed debt of gratitude to like like a [TS]

  generation so I'm my head is still [TS]

  spinning I don't blame you i mean but [TS]

  it's also interesting inflection point [TS]

  because has there ever been a greater [TS]

  you know i mean in terms of like this it [TS]

  seems like a virtually impossible [TS]

  situation not too long if not impossible [TS]

  at least very very costly and [TS]

  time-consuming and now not only are you [TS]

  better than when you started [TS]

  but now now the question is like how [TS]

  deep you go in this word he uses as just [TS]

  to sell the thing in get your get your [TS]

  money back [TS]

  no no I think I'm i think i did what had [TS]

  to be asked [TS]

  oh yeah I can't get out of this now I'm [TS]

  i have to go deeper and deep like i'm in [TS]

  i'm in the front door other thing that [TS]

  potentially is bottomless [TS]

  this could you have it in you to pay it [TS]

  forward back to blacklist people [TS]

  this could be the dark web right mhm [TS]

  which which you can best visualized as [TS]

  an iceberg where Google is at the top [TS]

  and something else is at the bottom but [TS]

  that the thing what this is teaching me [TS]

  is I can never repay this debt simply by [TS]

  paying it forward within the blacklist [TS]

  community because I'm not a NASA [TS]

  engineer i can i can continue to enjoy [TS]

  my GMC RV and if other people find that [TS]

  that is enjoyable to watch [TS]

  watch and participate in vicariously and [TS]

  that inspires them to themselves by GMC [TS]

  RVs and join me in my great trip across [TS]

  america and through the crazy tour of [TS]

  colds right um then please by all means [TS]

  join me and buy your own GMC SUV and [TS]

  find as i have this this miracle [TS]

  community of of of weirdos but I now [TS]

  have a responsibility to pay it forward [TS]

  even outside the GMC community right I i [TS]

  have now learned the power of paying it [TS]

  forward and so I don't you know whatever [TS]

  my particular skill is and maybe it is [TS]

  guesting on people's dumb podcasts or [TS]

  maybe it is getting gigs for small bands [TS]

  in debt and that is not it so do not [TS]

  send me any tweets about will not get [TS]

  your stupid band giggles you're still [TS]

  gonna need some time to process this but [TS]

  I need to find a way to pan and yes [TS]

  Merlin I need to I need to pay it [TS]

  forward within my own sphere of [TS]

  influence [TS]

  whilst also paying it back to the GM [TS]

  cr-v community which has taught me so [TS]

  much I feel like I've been to the [TS]

  mountain it's gonna be super interesting [TS]

  well i don't know I maybe what I should [TS]

  do is but so i have this inside that i [TS]

  should buy all the remaining GMC rvs her [TS]

  and convert them to and put tesla motors [TS]

  in them and convert them to electric [TS]

  future vans be quite a project [TS]

  I mean it would be well I'd have to [TS]

  retool my factory but uh who I've been [TS]

  meaning to retool my factory [TS]

  holy shit [TS]