Roderick on the Line

Ep. 196: "The White Fresh Crüe"


  this episode of Roderick on the wine is

  sponsored by cards against humanity this

  month they asked the double clicks to

  help me say hi to john

  it's big


  hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going

  good I i had some audio problems there

  and then I realized what I had done is I

  had muted muted the computer

  oh whatever happened to you i'm betting

  happens dormant yeah yeah i was watching

  The Young Ones last night on the YouTube

  and then I i I'm muted it after a while

  I just wanted to capture the visual

  components of civilians stick

  yeah I muted I think because it didn't

  because it because it wasn't as great as

  I remembered it being when in 1984

  yeah that's that that's that's a tall

  order yeah it's still it's still pretty

  manic did you watch University Challenge

  I did ya boy it's got its moments though

  you Lori Lori you get that get the m

  thompson yes team right all Emma

  Thompson isn't she wonderful

  mm you got you got to your head yeah

  Motorhead's there who all the greats in

  des moines animated sock at one point I

  think so and there's a yeah there are a

  few there's an animated sock that the

  washing machines rebell but let let's

  not talk about the young ones as much as

  I want to my this layers you know you

  got the other got to get a story you got

  your laundry gotta be story University

  Challenge you gotta see story which is

  no really really needs to use the toilet

  yeah if it keeps in his buzzer that's

  good stuff

  oh but

  really have to go there's an episode of

  that show i don't think it's that 1i but

  it might be is that the wonders of this

  very brief like 30 second flash where

  they all play each other

  yeah that there is that and that's


  and then you only ever heard the guy who

  plays Neil I mean I don't unfamiliar

  with stuff he's done outside of their

  it's so weird to hear him not being Neil

  well yeah and and Rick does such a

  fantastic impression million billion

  that you're like oh wow that's a while

  that was really good you know then that

  show actually did introduce me to

  Motorhead I had no experience of

  motörhead until nineteen eighty-four

  whatever when I saw a Motorhead perform

  ace of spades on the young ones and I

  said whatever the hell kind of music

  that is I want it i'm gonna- name

  yeah yeah well i would go so far as to

  say that with the exception of glycine

  remember very well i would say madness

  with the exception of maybe like madness

  and they can you eat the man that the

  date when the damn door on there when

  they were in their vampire looking stage

  yeah I knew about the Damned because i

  was a big fan of Captain sensible oh I

  asked one of those names i just know

  from books

  captain sensible was a member of the

  Damned and he had a single very early on

  in mtv single called Walt wot ? huh

  the chorus to which meant i said captain

  that they said captain I said one is a


  so why this video like Captain so what

  and then some mother with lyrics is

  where it's almost a little bit papi

  well yeah it's it's sort of its little

  rappy and he is walking around sort of

  English and a hundred Allah o always

  thought it was public housing but maybe

  it is a hotel and and I really really

  connected with that song when i was 13

  or 14 and sew them then I they learn

  about the damned backwards which I guess

  you know how we're gonna do

  african-american and Puerto Rican people

  in particular from New York City get a

  lot of

  credit for hip-hop mhm i don't think we

  give enough credit all the way people to

  help hip-hop well-proven colons and cute

  and columnist Mike use all that was I

  mean that's the Rosetta Stone of Rapids

  be honest

  yeah it goes do you take James Brown you

  take your George Clinton but let's be

  honest it goes all the way back to a

  italian comedian yeah yeah who's making

  up who's making mouth sounds let you

  know so sure I mean he's word let's be

  honest he basically created rap

  yeah but then any would wrap have gotten


  if it weren't for Captain sensible if it

  weren't for uh Falco right if it weren't

  for blondie right they really

  popularized the genre i think so yeah

  yeah they should there should be like a

  baseball hall-of-fame except for the

  white people that really help wrap it in

  accountancy minnetonka know my parade

  sure and what about well now i'm trying

  to think did did annoying lift balloon

  now that's such a rap song

  see that's a you know just the Germans

  just the Germans and the Austrians alone

  that that helped popularize wrap that's

  a really good point i don't think i

  don't think white germanic peoples get

  the credit they deserve well for most

  things that don't

  well that's true that's good very

  well-organized think about how I think

  about the trains no sure I do I think

  about the trains know I know you pop

  would have gotten bigger if they spend

  more time doing German versions of songs

  like EE take something you know like a

  rappers delight I think if they done in

  German as well apparently they did that

  like very quickly you know and like a


  yeah well it'sit's it shows be given

  given the amount of technical and vocal

  dexterity that is required in

  contemporary rap when you listen to

  Sugar Hill Gang we listen to the

  original original like formative Rap

  Tracks it really does feel like people

  are improvising some words and i think

  one of the dudes the kids biggest part

  was ghostwritten I know this from

  probably a public radio show tonight

  what I know about rappers lame also also

  something that really popular

  strap public radio well I think could be

  honest with you I think I don't think

  Public Radio gets the credit it deserves

  you're right for making hip hop as big

  as it is it is you know you you have

  you've opened a a a whole line of

  inquiry there needs to be a netflix

  series about this that enough with the

  weed documentaries enough with the

  documentaries about food

  how about a six-part documentary on

  history of white people in rap music

  like you're like your crazy uncle yeah

  here's my name and I'm here to say like

  at the wedding reception you know for

  sure well you know I actually have some

  this is awful

  what I'm about to reveal but pre beastie

  boys gonna say 84 my friends and I had a

  rap group

  hmm Wow and utterly days it and this is

  this is terrible but we were called the

  white fresh crew the weight freshman

  right yeah and we were Alaska that's

  right it does everything it says on the

  tin except for being fresh and being a


  we were created has been the white and

  i'm pretty sure that we sculpt crew like

  Motley Crue oh nice ride the white fresh


  uh-huh and what we didn't I'm not

  embarrassed about this but it's hot it

  maybe is hard to imagine it's almost

  like a alternate universe door that we

  didn't step through but we would on a

  friday night go into my basement and

  beatbox out here and rap to each other

  just and it was just the three or four

  of us and we wouldn't we would march in

  a circle right so we'd start walking and

  then we would take turns improvin and

  and but we will but we're marching right

  because because i am I don't know maybe

  the maybe the look or the rhythm of like

  four guys standing in a circle and of


  arms in a penis or like boom boom you

  know like yo-yo way maybe that had

  evolved yet more like a like a street

  corner and less like a circle jerk

  should have some emotion and what we

  were moving right yeah sure marching

  marching in a circle and we were kind of

  we were so we're doing the exact thing

  that we're wrapping into the center of

  the circle right we were marching like

  rapping in the back of our heads we were

  wrapping into the middle but we were we

  were emotion it's gonna get that kind of

  breakdancing vibe we got people kind of

  shucking and jiving next circle that's

  right that's right and we were we were

  with there was a breakdancing element

  but none of us would would would

  necessarily try to try to do any

  breaking but a you know it was tall

  wrapping around here where the white

  first crew and we take no crap you dish

  it out and it don't come back type of

  run DMC style rhymes

  yeah I caught the 123456 around yeah and

  we do this we did this for quite a while

  as a as a sort of you know friday

  evening half rack of beer and we were

  not we were doing it out of a kind of

  just pure enthusiasm for the style so

  this was so we were fans of DMC and the

  boogie boys and and the this like first

  generation of popularized like but rap

  music that had be become popularized to

  to mainstream right well i mean let me

  ask you this

  I know you and I are famously fast and

  loose with dates and I'm not trying to

  pin you down can you

  because it helps the story a little bit

  can you really mostly locate that in

  around nineteen eighty-four cuz that

  would also be around the time of

  Flashdance yeah which I mean select the

  right there at that I knew was like I

  knew the Apache song I knew about you

  you know I knew the the rapper's delight

  and you rapture I don't think it even

  heard nucleus yet jam on it was the one

  that made me fall in love with

  wrap-around i love jam on it with a

  little funny voice Wicky Wicky Wicky

  shut up you know

  but the 94 is a big year because thats

  you got it was really crossing over into

  like those videos there was there was

  famously there was breakdancing in

  Flashdance remember she comes she joins

  in with the kids that cute hat and she

  comes out and dances there was before

  was the year that rap broke

  what was the year of the movie breakin a

  break-in break-in came out drinking

  drinking prime I'm not easy for ya

  breaking came out in 84 and you know and

  that should have been a second one of


  well they did that like electric blue

  sad you it's the canonical second movie

  chip break-in and 84 so breaking came

  out and I feel like I mean you know

  again we're talking about anchorage but

  this was the this was them i think the

  exact moment when Alaska k the culture

  in Alaska caught up to the culture in

  America and now the two cultures were

  happening simultaneous with water

  contemporaneously right up until that

  point all of our television was on a was

  on a week delay because the Carson show

  would happen and then they would

  literally bundle the tapes up and fly

  them to Alaska and play them you know

  play them the following week

  wow so but even worse than that most

  cultural things disco and so forth like

  disco arrived in anchorage in about

  nineteen eighty years 79 right it was it

  was it was like time-delayed it was it

  was time delay all culture was sort of

  time delayed up there and in some ways

  that still is because if you get off an

  airplane in in Anchorage now it feels

  like it's 1994 i can tell you almost i

  think i can tell you almost everything i

  know about Alaska in like four bullets

  it's one of those two last States we

  strapped on that's right ok you got

  baked alaska which is really fancy fancy

  dessert on Alaska is where where Santa

  lives which is not actually correct and

  you've got uh you got that everything

  that the footnote at the bottom very


  prices something like prices higher in

  Alaska Hawaii

  yeah I don't think that even happens

  anymore i think that's from the

  seventies to that was always I mean

  every series commercial or whatever and

  Sergeant my gosh what one must be so

  difficult about that

  well yeah that you have to put it on a

  seal and barge but but in 1984 right we

  finally all had MTV and and it was

  happening cable TV allowed things to

  happen in real time and so we were

  seeing what America was seeing I was

  almost like time travel is also he

  skipped two years

  yeah we did it was just like everything

  got really fast all of a sudden and so

  we're we were up there

  formerly still really enthralled with

  Boston second record and then all of a

  sudden like rap music descended upon us

  and and new wave and pumpkin all sort of

  arrived at once in 80 81 82 so anyway 84

  yeah we're up there and and at that

  point there wasn't any there wasn't any

  indication that that there would be

  white rappers but but also there wasn't

  it was still sort of that mix of like

  there wasn't any indication that there

  would never be a white Michael Jackson

  either but didn't keep us all from being

  michael jackson all the time until at

  least tomorrow is it was it was uniquely

  located I mean I learned in retrospect

  that there are many other there's lots

  there's lots more to it than the obvious

  stuff but the stuff we knew about was

  mostly black people in a very urban

  setting in New York like maybe even in a

  identified as a borough of New York i

  will so that's in the seventies i think

  by the early eighties it had it had

  disseminated they disseminated pretty

  widely it was just that it didn't mean

  in the public eye

  what ya bum ya you mean to white people

  well yeah I mean I'm here looking at the

  wikipedia page 494 hop hop and you got

  you run DMC the first run DMC record you

  got Houdini right although 1984 the

  first run DMC record which which

  descended upon us like a like a thousand


  right that we knew every word in that

  album Mike my group of friends and I and

  whatever was crazy was when that beastie

  boys record came out which was in 86

  only a couple years later it was it was

  that weird feeling like wait a minute we

  thought of this but if we were doing

  this exact thing that could have been us

  it could have been us

  yeah they could have come from Alaska

  instead of three Jewish kids from from

  the lower east side if we could have

  been the Alaska Beastie Boys and so

  there was a lot of I felt a lot of sort

  of resentment to that first pc boys

  record because it was almost exactly

  what we would have done right whiny

  drinky like you would a person

  essentially helped to liven up and

  refresh the genre with a whole new spin

  and and and production like nobody's

  ever heard before

  well but it was it like automatically

  right the beastie boys did not try to be

  anything that they weren't all right

  yeah they were just like we are not just

  kids where snot-nosed kids and these

  songs are about masturbation and

  drinking beer and aspiring to be to be

  cool and that that's you know that was

  kind of the that was what was cool about

  them but that is also what would have

  been cool about the white fresh crew

  crew didn't have a tree since John I

  don't know we mean only started having a

  lot over the you

  oh yes it did it I mean that we didn't

  we spend a lot more time drawing album

  covers for the truly awful band which

  was which was our other music act truly

  awful man in the white fresh crew were

  pretty much the same members and the

  same and the same era as a lot easier

  talking about did the stratosphere tense

  situation yeah exactly exactly were the

  we were the head cotys as well as being

  the head coats



  but but alas neither neither act mean

  the truly awful band actually played a

  couple of shows who I think the I think

  if we get our rap i think maybe we we

  tried to wrap at a party once where r

  where female a component was their

  female component of my gang

  yeah and the girls in my gang worse were

  stronger than the boys as is also often

  the case and they scorned us we started

  to wrap in a circle

  I'm sorry I'm gonna hurt we got scored

  pretty hard so we stopped doing that

  oh we stopped doing it publicly I think

  we kept doing it amongst ourselves for a

  while the other problem was I don't

  think we ever wrote our raps down

  because we understood it to be an extemp

  rising games and oral tradition that's

  right and so it was we never SAT like

  him like eminem in the bus scrolling are

  rhymes in a notebook

  we just we just let them go into the air

  so if you've got if you will be like

  you'll be like writing a short story

  about touch football like that you just

  go out and play touch football you in

  right about it like a pretty small

  yeah so it was it was if you if you

  scored a good a good little but bomo as

  they say this and wrap and wrap you

  would just everyone would acknowledge it

  with like maha uh-huh but then it's not

  like you would try and grab it and then

  put a leash on it and drag it back to

  earth also yeah you're very least in the

  times I've known your we're more prosaic

  em there's a I'm not to say that you're

  not capable of short blasts of spitting

  rhymes as they say but you know you're

  more of a long-form probably stop

  polysyllabic kind of guy

  well this was your fellow your flow

  works on five thousand word level this

  is what I mean about stepping through a

  stepping through it a door to another

  thing right there all those moments when

  you look back in life and go if that

  head because it absolutely resonated

  with me and connected

  me and with my friends if we had felt

  just that little bit more liberty to to

  say this is actually something that i

  really want to do you know you step

  through and then maybe I would have

  become somebody that because it when I

  several years later i was living in a

  house where all of my roommates were

  rappers and sat around wrapping all the

  time but by that point I understood that

  I was not that was not I was not

  basically invited to sit down it at the

  on the couch and and rhyme with

  everybody like my job at that point was

  to roll joints and not appreciatively

  but you know it could have been so much

  different to all your ok i see how maybe

  I could have been or maybe I could have

  a a decided that that was where I was

  going to pour my clear the eighties the

  Golden Age of we talked about before the

  extra guy in the band you can have a

  professor Griff like who's there to give

  you some philosophical guidance you got

  the dancing guy and Happy Mondays maybe

  Jonathan girls the joints

  yeah but i would have wanted a more

  featured role right i mean I maybe can

  roll them on stage is I like to be the

  guy at a party that rolled joints i

  really did it would give me an activity

  i could sit at the i consider the coffee

  table right in the center of the party

  right you're right there right in the

  heart of it

  yeah you've got a job and it's an

  important job anywhere between the

  Somali a magician yeah right i mean yet

  people are going to you don't have to do

  anything you want to talk you don't have

  to do anything because you're rolling

  joints but you can and if you start

  talking everybody's gonna like it's like

  H&R Block right you're going to

  everybody wants to be really busy for

  comments here

  yeah everybody wants to hear what you've

  got to say my shot at smith barney

  that's rolling me yeah mr. Barney who

  Smith Barney was that kind of wine

  cooler right

  yep yet anyway morning James so I would

  just I mean but you're also you're

  showing off your expertise to roll a

  joint is thing that requires a certain

  certain amount of

  I'm not just find a spot like to roll a

  good joint and I could roll a good joint

  everyone you get done and just sort of

  you do that thing where you tip it up so

  now the joint is pointing up in the air

  so everyone can see it you're like

  almost it is a revealing magicians

  reveal ya la la la la and then all

  everyone starts salivating they can't

  wait to get their hands on this joint

  but maybe you don't hand it to somebody

  maybe put it down on the coffee table

  maybe you know maybe you lay out three

  or four of them before you start having

  amount so that everybody can see that

  their uniform that each one you know the

  day that they're beautiful matched set

  hmm so that was the job that I really

  appointed I i pointed myself that that

  job and of course I never had the pot

  right the I didn't bring pot to the


  I didn't have any money right but but

  so the person that had the pot could

  also conveyed to the room that they were

  big enough deal that they didn't need to

  sit rolling joints right they have the

  pot and so rolling the joint allowed me

  then to have some ownership over the

  weed so I didn't have to stand there

  like a goofball and be like who you

  gonna pass that over here well you're

  certainly you're adding value

  I've added value precisely it so the guy

  with the pot is like are you know I'm

  too big a deal to to be rolling joints

  that's a that's the Romans work but but

  then I even having rolled the joints i

  was entitled at least to take up in

  order to take one of those joints for


  mhm right you know you roll 5 slip one

  in your pack of cigarettes and and

  everybody feels right everybody feels

  right about it

  this is this is all going in my moochers

  Bible mmm that's a good idea when I

  finally write the Boosters Bible indeed

  as an e-book know i'm thinking it's like

  something that be in airport bookstores

  something you read on an airplane urban

  survivalist Bible like you like dr.

  Strangelove Bible like you like it's

  like a tiny little what's called the

  moochers what the moochers Bible yes

  Bible and that could be very small like

  it could slip into a wallet

  it should or or

  you certainly will ensure pocket it

  should be about the size of a pack of

  cigarettes and it should be inexpensive

  enough to replace because your friends

  probably steal from from you because

  let's be honest amateur well sure I mean

  you're probably going to try and steal

  it from the bookstore in the first place

  yep but the other the only problem I

  think is that a lot of my a lot of the

  tenants in the moochers Bible aren't

  really applicable anymore nobody smokes

  well yeah what are you gonna do but go

  walk up to somebody on the street and

  asked for a cigarette because a dollar

  each now

  yeah so yeah I mean that they've got

  really costly that's invading the vaping

  is not such a park anymore either San

  Francisco's coming down hard on the

  vapors uh you mean they're taxing vapor

  well I look at my daughter school

  there's a sign right out front says no

  smoking and yes no vaping either and

  that was a big robot cigarettes so you

  can say like look here don't do that

  don't do that

  what was the question with vaping isn't

  so much i don't think that that it's you

  know you can no longer do it on

  airplanes or whatever but more that you

  cannot you can't mooch a toke off

  somebody's baby can you it seems like a

  very personal line mucha took off

  somebody's vape I don't know the kids i

  see in our neighborhood have very

  sophisticated looking ones they look

  kinda like a magazine with remote

  control from 1977's something that you

  would see where they don't wanna the

  cantina scene in the original starting

  original Star Trek where they are where

  they listen to you have many good men

  and vaping yeah what brought about by

  little by little deal actually took a

  nap you took another fellows de Paul so

  that they have a lot of fruit flavors I

  think there's a lot of variety to the

  vaping today used to be got you know

  Marburg or camel

  well now you can have any kind of flavor

  really good mmmm fall people's menthol

  smoking is a purely defensive tactic i

  know anything about this from people i

  know you think that it's true if you

  smoke menthols people don't want to bum

  cigarettes from you but I there but

  people claim that the men fall is an

  additional thing you get addicted to

  I believe it so now you don't even want

  to smoke a normal cigarette you have

  anything in your mouth enough eventually

  gonna want their but you price your it

  if you get into mental smoking in order

  to keep people from bumming cigarettes

  it's you price yourself out of ever

  becoming a cigarette from anybody else

  so in the end what started off maybe as

  a defensive technique ends up biting you

  in the ass

  mm because you don't like to buy your

  own petard that's exactly what it is

  yeah you go to a bar near like and one

  of those and you oh it's just a Marlboro

  like I need to go dip that in the candy

  came because I can't enjoy a cigarette

  that doesn't taste like a fresh breeze

  on the bottoms cool mountain that but

  i'm i'm curious about whether and I

  maybe some of our bit vaping listeners

  will will chime in on this

  yeah but if you're hanging out around it

  standard in a circle maybe doing some

  marching and some some rapping

  everybody's presumably got their own the

  vapor cigarette right you don't take a

  token and pass it on

  it's not a bomb right so it's it's a big

  part of this is my whole identity thing

  to it when I see these kids and their

  sports where they usually other

  sunglasses on the back of her neck and

  they're walking around making vapes yeah

  baby it wasn't an energy drink

  the other thing i noticed a lot about

  vapors is they do that leg thing that

  shaky leg thing remember when you're a

  teenager and you got energy and your

  legs always in motion they seem very

  keyed up the vapors and you can really

  identify them you know that's the energy


  oh I know I mean well you know a certain

  point I don't know she can't even

  separate them the vaping the energy

  drink i don't know i don't know it feels

  like a lifestyle it feels i got like a

  whole kind of community college


  yeah haha doesn't have a little bit of

  CC vibe

  well it always did but I but I'm seeing

  a lot of I'm seeing a lot of urban

  sophisticates now

  well that's not columns systems but

  urban people that I would normally that

  would normally in the past have seen

  smoking cigarettes which is a universal

  indication that you are you that you are

  cool and rock and roll right there are

  still a lot of those people actually

  smoking cigarettes burning cigarettes

  which I which i can't i can't fathom was

  walking through the cool neighborhood

  yesterday was like

  my god people are still smoking

  cigarettes they're comfortable in

  Manhattan i noticed that people still

  gonna still true now last moment and I

  was struck by how many people still

  smoke still smoking cigarettes but i'm

  not here to judge but I mean that's that

  does it that you don't see it as much

  around here for sure

  let's be honest you are judging no i'm

  not i'm judging the way people hard and

  I want to distinguish first of all I

  just want to say i don't want to talk

  about this please don't email me about

  this please don't treat me about this i

  don't want to be persuaded about vaping

  please keep it to yourself

  let me let me just criticize you yeah on

  my own please

  sure it's one thing you're right it's

  ready out mr. that's my right it's one

  thing to go out I you know and I'm going

  and I don't care but like I'm

  distinguishing between you get this is

  smoking over here this event that

  there's like you could buy the

  disposable ones that look like

  cigarettes right that's that that's

  really friendly look down the vapors

  look down on that that's real kid stuff

  I really there's their v that are

  disposable that look like cigarette yeah

  they're awesome they're not they're not

  one hitters no one hitters that look

  like cigarettes tho yes

  cool yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah super

  cool but no but they had their purpose

  and then you got the ones that are more

  like what i would call the ethernet

  wizard cigarette and that's more like

  the little one let's get playing a flute

  yeah thatthat's I think those the

  Picasso serious vapors now carry this

  thing that looks I haven't paid a lot of

  attention to it but I see them sometimes

  in the neighborhoods are unavoidable and

  it's it's a little bigger than like a

  sailor zenith remote control i would say

  it's a little bit smaller than the gyro

  mechanism you used for a remote-control

  plane is what if it's big I mean if it's

  like the size of a Walkman what i did

  when i got a big butt plug coming out of

  it you talk on to make your Papes yeah

  when i see that i always think of that

  episode of the episode of the one show

  where Frey gets the magic he gets the

  devil hands he gets the robot devil

  hands here on the double switch hands

  okay right in the devil once human hands

  and and and he offers fri though the the

  robot hands devil hands Frey gets the

  devil hands and then suddenly he can

  play the

  The Magic Flute that conjures images

  right if you have a complicated plot for

  half hour show

  well yeah but that's the thing that they

  got done making the simpsons or whatever

  then maybe get done making the simpsons

  but same people right yeah oh yeah i

  think it's the same it started out as

  the same roughish team

  yeah so I mean a lot of shots a fun show

  my smarts there anyway so he's playing

  the he's playing them the magic flute

  and it conjures up these images of him

  dancing with Leela and he wins Lila's

  heart but then at the end he doesn't he

  doesn't consummate consummate the

  relationship with Leela because that's

  basically the that would ruin the show

  the whole show would end and I thought

  that's the same and I a moment Sam Sam

  and Diane moment that's right at that

  point at that point Diane has exactly

  but anyway so with fries playing this

  crazy electric flute with his devil

  robot hands and that is what I cannot

  not see that when I see people vaping on

  the street I just feel like since I i

  think yeah I can I get you but to me

  it's almost like the way you feel

  watching people use a blackberry where

  before and even in the early days of the

  iphone a lot of people were still always

  using their BlackBerry's and they were

  talking about how much they loved using

  their blackberries but nobody i've never

  seen by look happy using a blackberry

  never get people were vaping did they

  look like they're like better no shame

  of what they're doing because the whole

  well they should be

  I mean it's real silly nothing against

  it i mean he didn't have fun but

  it'sit's does look very silly i think i

  think some of that might be that we just

  do not live in that suburban there that

  XO city that the edge of a city where

  people are influenced by the city i'm

  talking about an agent 1x herb and

  observed that you're saying you're

  saying you're at a an umbrella table

  outside the quiznos by the old starbucks

  and you're making it up

  I'm i think that as you leave this if

  you're in the center of the city and you

  are and your pants are riding low and

  your vaping and you have a white

  baseball cap on backwards people in the

  city recognize us from elsewhere but as

  you move further and further out of a

  city you reach a borderland

  where where all the cultures interact

  right and you can be out there in that

  borderland making alternative theater

  because that's because you cannot forget

  the different kind of stew

  it's the children of people who work at

  costco meeting with the children of

  people who work at sam's club and

  they're all they're all they're all

  meeting together and it's a great

  goulash cultural goulash

  well yeah I mean especially now that

  cities are too expensive to live in

  right we're seeing we're seeing the

  receiving the downtown culture makers

  moving out as the exam billion children

  characters move in and you get into this

  weird realm where people are vaping

  ironically and right next to people who

  are vaping very earnestly and you go at

  the ice vapors right I can't tell the

  one from the other now I mean there are

  people who've a parent it's very cool

  they make it look cool and it's similar

  to communicate to learn about the word

  you want

  well what is cool anymore Merlin is

  Miles Davis you can see miles davis

  doing that I think that the next Miles

  Davis is right now i'll probably says

  sixteen-year-old vapor Miles Davis to

  point out well probably now for point

  out for the out like Miles Davis ex was

  a pretty good must have snacks that's

  pretty good yeah i'm sure it was what I

  think it would just be miles X minus X

  yeah but yeah I think I think that there

  i think vaping is here to stay and I

  think it only looks ridiculous to us but

  in a very short amount of time it will

  just be as natural to to the young

  people as anything much more natural

  than cigarettes cigarettes are gonna

  look like some elder make that 19 know

  they're gonna make the fifties look like


  yeah exactly well i'm also i agree with

  you about people having to move out the

  city's I'm interested in what happens

  within the next what probably two years

  for everybody cool is going to live

  outside the city everybody lives in the

  city is going to be a douchebag who's

  making makes apps what's what's the

  opposite of a Bridge and Tunnel crowd

  right but what if we get to where people

  are going they're going out to the

  exurbs because that's where the good

  skate ramps and of apes are you know

  saying yeah I feel like it will continue

  to be called bridge-and-tunnel little


  to be bridgend people taking bridges and

  tunnels to get out of the downtown core

  rather than go into it it's a different

  it's the whole it's all white flight

  premise but not in Reverse but sort of

  in Reverse like fleeing not not fleeing

  from the decline of the inner city

  because it has become a like dangerous

  and uh and decaying but flight leaving

  from the inner city because it's

  intolerable tolerably smug man that's

  that's that's going to get trend piece

  that's gonna be a trend piece in the

  next couple years I mean already already

  see it like in our local paper coom

  website if there's already like there's

  a huge amount of the front page that

  goes to come here buddy what somebody is

  selling this teardown for ya

  and then there's the of course the

  component piece of that is but if you

  move to you know Dumbledore pleasanton

  you can get a 6,000 acre ranch for nine


  yea Pleasant and was intent on the part

  I think you know I think that that

  honestly right the the last 20 years has

  has seen the burbs

  let's call it the last 30 years saw all

  this you know these mega mansions or

  Mick mansions but they're McMansions

  kind of gross overly large houses with

  three-story atrium and then that the

  tria the cheaper knockoff version that

  mention Kings mansion King come and

  they're always intervention chef in


  I you know I I don't have a TV you know

  what a butt out there in these like

  manicured neighborhoods with these over

  large homes and now nobody wants to live

  in them anymore but i think we're going

  to see an exodus of people from the city

  who will move out there and find that

  that they can get these huge huge homes

  look like seven beds super cheap where

  the weather cell they sell at way under

  market value to get out

  yeah it makes it available goes on the

  market oh that's super interesting and

  then these neighborhoods are suddenly

  going to become vibrant places because

  these homes are going to have like

  three different families living and

  regeneration of different families it's

  gonna become the equivalent of I mean

  that would be so great you can have

  three different families living in one

  of these giant giant houses they're just

  they're really using the pool they don't

  have a pool it's think clean there's

  like 60 kids in the pool

  that's right and maybe it's like an

  ad-hoc apartment maybe 9 a-9 like a like

  a scream poets will all move into

  Lauren's mega-mansion out in the suburbs

  and and you know they're gonna start

  seeing like interesting sculptures

  appear in the yard

  I mean those those neighborhoods could

  are ripe to be colonized by uh by this

  like dramatic creative class that can no

  longer make make a theater in warehouses


  so I'm excited about that and I wonder I

  wonder I mean maybe there will be life

  on those streets maybe they will

  suddenly be kids riding their writing

  there a unicycle or whatever kids ride a

  get a recumbent bike or a hotter board

  yeah it'll be like little it will

  literally make the 2020 these look at

  look like the fifties em the 2020s are

  going to make the 2010 look like

  nineteen nineties and early nineteen

  nineties are going to make the 2020s

  look like the fifties manslaughter

  Collins so I mean at you know what as as

  the parents of of young kids we might

  start to think about like hey let's go

  out there by one of those as mega

  mansions that has like two gold lions on

  the steps

  yeah and you know move in and then

  suddenly the master you've got a master


  that's like 1,500 square feet and your

  kid has a as their own bedroom but also

  their own den ah and you can rollerskate

  in the living room you can make one of

  the rooms into just like a jungle

  playroom jungle playroom you could hire

  a local maker somebody with a hot glue

  down a book they could come out and they

  can make a jungle inside one of the

  rooms the kids could plan here's what

  I'm thinking I'm thinking let's let you

  taking internet you buy a mansion a

  former you know mansion king and then

  you you take it out however you want and

  then and you buy a google bus

  and that way now you got a cheap way

  easy way to get people in and out of the

  city you can still go to the city if you

  need baby supplies or work and it's a

  lot easier than have known a bunch of

  cars and you know something that

  sculpture on the line i think we don't

  want cars on one

  no that's true see but whatever cars are

  going to Waverly I know I know but 11

  google but especially you know you can

  try grease or or as son

  mhm I don't know I'm just saying the

  economies of scale here everybody kicks

  in a little bit you could by mentioning

  pretty pretty cheap probably now you

  you've got your finger on the pulse of

  e-commerce and entrepreneurship think I

  do yeah so tell me are we closer to an

  omen we're going to get a lot of letters

  about this from Johnson cuza hoo-ha but

  uh are we closer now to the paperless

  office are we closer to people just

  working from home or do people continue

  to need to come into the city where they

  have free fruit loops in a giant fruit

  loop dispenser as one of the perks of

  their open plan office beanbag chair


  mhm people going to continue to come in

  for the fruit loops and the beanbag

  chairs or are the engineers one day

  going to completely rebell and say

  listen has an engineer I no longer need

  to ever wear pants again

  yeah and i'm just going to code from the

  enormous beanbag sex chair that is the

  only item of furniture in mind in the

  entire mega-mansion and I get the

  Lamborghini poster lamborghini poster

  and the and the enormous beanbag chair

  and they're just in there just coding

  they've got like six screens they get

  their own fruit loops dispenser nice

  they never need to come into the city at

  all it are we closer to that or is there

  it is there something about that the is

  there something about the proximity to

  one another the standup desks and the

  and the conference rooms that make going

  into San Francisco necessary for for for

  commerce the honest answer the funny


  I want the honest answer it has existed

  already for a long time there's a lot of

  people that there are a lot of companies

  that when they started

  that's how they started they started

  with people working remotely one of the

  big problems with trying to reduce all

  this revolutionary bullshit in the

  company's is that it works against the

  principles upon which the company was

  started and it works directly at odds

  with the culture that's kind of it's

  been the nation culture since the play

  started you know what I mean

  so it's like it it's almost like think

  of a family like a passive-aggressive

  western family and Midwestern family who

  likes a movie where the family likes

  each other it's ok for now I'm walking

  to like each other as well that's easier

  said than done because this is the way

  we have always acted it's hard to just

  you don't get to hit a reset button and

  terraforming family right so i think

  that's one so on the one hand I think it

  always has existed for some companies i

  mean i i've worked with companies where

  everybody's on contract and all but like

  three people work remotely and so what

  then is doing the other part of that is

  that I think this is the sea dance with

  a funny answer switch again and also

  people like to think there's a certain

  way of managing only managing where it's

  definitely easier to have everybody in

  the room but honestly it's also

  sometimes easier to collaborate with

  people in a room even or especially with

  things like engineers you get a lot more

  accomplished when you can be

  face-to-face with somebody so this idea

  ok let's ok let's think about this but I

  mean so there's still much more to that

  you can still have things we can still

  like have the occasional like weekly

  meeting and stand up and everybody's

  trying different things and then there's

  nobody who says I want nobody anymore he

  says I want the kind of job i think my

  grandparents had no I don't want a job

  we have to go and likes in a big

  building with artificial light and

  windows that don't open and just and and

  sit around and do this point nobody

  wants that it's just that there isn't

  any easy way to say that what what is if

  you don't want that then what do you

  want because this complexity that's what

  I'm saying that like my what I'm trying

  to imagine is let's let's let's picture

  one of these exurbs one of these

  McMansion villages and let's say that it

  becomes a colony right where everyone

  who lives in that neighborhood is an

  engineer so they're all working offshore

  four different one second it's literally

  a village village that shoemaker you got

  barber you got a-you got am working till

  you got all these people and they work

  together and with each other you're

  saying here is the same thing is

  literally a village just over here you

  got a programmer over here you gotta my

  single person you get a full stack

  person you're right

  XHTML HTML exactly this guy over here is

  doing ironic 8-bit animations for people

  who decided that the cool websites are

  throwback websites and then I think a

  lot of those McMansion neighborhoods in

  the in it as they were building them

  they were trying to create trying to

  falsely to create a feeling of community

  and so they would actually build like

  community centers where they met that

  had barbecues and stuff that where they

  imagine the people would congregate for

  that feeling of togetherness completely

  failing to understand that that the

  premise of constructing those whole

  neighborhood's was that no one wanted to

  interact with each other at all you

  would park your lexus 300 in the in the


  you're not even want to get out of your

  car outside you don't want to get into

  the garage closed the garage door and

  then get out

  that's right so but now we're picturing

  a colony of Engineers all living

  together and they do they do use the the

  communal space as an office communal

  office and a communal like gathering

  point where they're sharing ideas

  they're they're you know they're showing

  their stuff and their kids are all

  around them and then all of a sudden the

  google bus only comes the google bus

  comes every day because that's the

  amazon prime bus now which comes and

  delivers all the groceries and all the

  supplies that everybody is all that's so


  that's right before different services

  that you know kind of trickling in

  throughout the day you do a big you do

  it's like it's like escape from new york

  the helicopter comes and drop supplies

  yeah it's a semi still our escape from

  new york john that's the thing it

  becomes not a walled city because if we

  want to come it's open right but you

  would never need to leave your

  neighborhood and it could become like a

  think tank right this would you that it

  would be like it would be like in the

  original movie Tron where the bit the

  beam of light of the master control


  is beaming up out of these neighborhoods

  and all the engineers that to all the

  engineering for the entire city of San

  Francisco are just living together and

  then you've got your alternative theater

  neighborhood over here you've got your

  entrepreneur neighborhood where the

  entrepreneurs who are self-conscious

  about their money want to live in the

  kind of McMansion house that maybe they

  once upon a time would have lived in as

  a serious mansion house

  yeah now that the mansion houses are are

  seen as like middle-class collective

  homes they actually want to move into

  them as a way of just of camouflaging

  their wealth but you'll want to be

  around because you're gonna Ryan ironic

  mansion you know you may want to keep

  going around ironically let's call it a

  mac mansion it's not a McMansion anymore

  its a Mac mansion that's right huh

  so the entrepreneurs actually still have

  their 8,000 square-foot warehouse in San

  Francisco but now they realize that

  their that they have to slum out in the

  suburbs where all the action is it

  mostly good like I saw this thing

  somebody finally posted this thing of

  the day it's this way of it's like a pod

  you can get from it for your backyard

  for a home office actually super cool

  its kind of thing you'd see like that up

  you know in the nineteen seventies it's

  a very comfortable like mostly glass

  thing that can just get dropped in your

  backyard and you can do your business

  right in the backyard

  I can see people living I think this is

  a popular trend right now is that what

  he called the micro house or whatever

  the meetinghouse Michael many of them

  yeah your micro mini house would be

  likes a bunk bed and gas stove and about

  you get to find this stuff gets a

  horizontal slots slots you know so you

  can well it out a little bit you know so

  so no not only primary place you would

  live in the mac mansion or the McMansion

  you would never actually a convention

  right and then we have all the micro pod

  pods in the so they start off in the

  backyard but then people realize what

  are we hiding from this is our community

  so then the pod start start popping up

  in people's front yards and then odds

  than the pods become a separate network

  a separate like network of of a like a

  like another another connective layer of


  that's that's within the mac mansions

  and then the first one shows up inside a

  mac mansion in the atrium in the front

  hall and you can put them in a circle it

  will be recalled the opposite of a panic

  on you can have a non opticon you have

  all the facing toward the middle of the

  village where the campfire is you can

  have all the little glass facing in the

  same direction right well then it

  becomes one of those mirrors probably

  opticon the the mirrored a solar-powered

  energy collector who where they're all

  arranged in a circle and they're

  reflecting the sunlight or the brain

  waves to a central hub to the NCP to the

  mCP over so it's generating ideas it's

  generating power it's probably generated

  and with maybe that's almost a limited

  bandwidth at this point huh

  so and this is we're talking about

  mansions now who I feel like this is the

  trend this is the way it's going because

  at that point

  yeah you like the wide-open space you

  like the boulevards you like the the

  flight uniformly tree-lined streets

  there's not as much there's not as much

  to go awry

  unfortunately those houses are mostly

  stapled and glued together so i don't

  think they're going to last forever

  that's ok that's ok this is a new

  generation John we really want to bring

  our old thinking they don't season

  Colonial Williamsburg right people who

  have no belongings and Spotify and they

  maybe have a laptop so as the houses as

  new there in the clouds on these people

  in the clouds they are so they're living

  in the cloud live in the cloud but i

  think there's going to be a magic moment

  where these homes that are made out of

  pressed particle of substances there

  right now they're off-gassing right

  that's the phrase they are off-gassing

  meaning that all of the all the chemical

  glues that are holding the homes

  together are still gassing they're still

  turning to gas and and poisoning you and

  your children but there'll be a moment

  where they stop gassing because they've

  get off gastall the gas and then they

  start absorbing moisture right those

  surf those those are building components

  are going to start swelling they're

  going to steal all your breath and all

  of your perspiration cici yes

  yes there's a lot of moisture in the

  home right so there's going to be a

  perfect moment between the off-gassing

  and when the houses start to swell with

  perspiration where they're in stasis

  right there they're like it's the pits

  they're perfect

  it's the perfect state and that will be

  the moment they know for whatever two

  years that period is that will be when

  to go in there colonize those spaces ok

  use them to generate entrepreneurship

  and then a and then when the building

  start to fall down when the moss the

  black mold starts to form the corners

  maybe you have a like a Detroit style

  hell night we just one night you just

  take your beanbag chairs you you take

  your Lamborghini posters you put them

  all on a on amazon bus

  yeah you burn the entire neighborhood

  damn you can like the perch and you get

  it's like it's like a Clemenza says

  right you can have a war every few years

  that's right give it a black mold and

  then you can just extrude a new house

  again terraforming you can just tell you

  get you extrude a new house where the

  focus by then I think your point though

  by the time you get rid of the deadly

  part or the poison is part of the of the

  particle board you're also introducing a

  problem the performance characteristics

  are already degrading to get maybe maybe

  two years who knows how much the gas was

  holding the whole thing together

  yeah and then then you're like the end

  of a road warrior two electric boogaloo

  where you all get into a motley caravan

  of google buses and electric cars and

  you're towing your little pods you're

  gonna bang bang chitty bang me and you

  head off and the homunculus is there man

  give us the oil i head off into the

  desert to create you're looking for the

  next utopia next mansions mm we can

  dream can't we feel like this is the way

  and i just want to live long enough to

  see this happen

  yeah because at this point you know

  we're both going to be the old crotchety

  geezer with the with the Edit forget

  what kind of hat he was wearing was a as

  like Napoleon hat or something

  well just max thing I think it's a


  yeah but you know also to refer to your

  program you like we could also just be

  ahead and charge at that point you know

  I mean we can see what you're saying

  yeah arguing with Richard Nixon on the

  shelf somewhere

  yeah that's funny bit I don't want to

  you you seem you seem a little bit

  dismissive of the show with fry and

  Leela I like it a lot it's been banned

  from the house

  um we do it was just a little bit too


  I you know inside words and definitions

  it gets a little saucy and starvation in

  a fit of pique my wife bandit I see my

  daughter was extremely into it though

  I'm still we still have we know we keep

  a long list of about sixty pet names we

  keep keep around she still really want

  to name something Lord nibbler Lords a

  blur is pretty cute

  sure he's the little nipper that eats

  everything right he's adorable and his

  poop is not what runs the ship all

  rights right these little infinitely

  dense poops could be i won that show

  came out I was not interested in it at

  all but then I saw it in reruns

  syndication they call it and I and I and

  I night and I did like it for for

  several years and then I didn't have a

  TV anymore it's a great hotel rooms show

  that's right it's one of those ones like

  yeah there's certain kinds of shows i

  would never once had never watched but I

  wouldn't make make special appointment

  viewing time for but like if it's on a

  hotel room it's like it's really good

  it's not a thing that you're gonna get

  as you're scrolling through netflix and

  seeing 1 million movies that you never

  knew existed and never will watch you'll

  see the the fry and Leela show and you

  say oh isn't that good that's all your

  likes and it seemed it strikes you as a

  positive but you're not gonna watch it

  either like the whole point of Netflix's

  to scroll and scroll and scroll

  endlessly and never watch anything

  yeah and so they just dumped some new

  stuff in the last few days it's kind of

  overwhelming you know what I learned of

  this is true but a couple people told me


  he said you have the netflix well I did

  get familiar with the what it what it is

  yeah but I was just going to tell a very

  short story where I kind of got him I

  got a little bit of a millennial break

  up the other day when i logged onto


  and i was and i met my password has been


  well so well because it wasn't my

  netflix so I got millennia I get the

  Millennial breakup

  oh I'm sorry that you're disinvited to

  use my netflix for free

  oh the Millennial pop ya know you got


  oh yeah somebody boyce you so you turn

  your computer like I think i'm gonna

  watch days of the Condor again for the

  40th time it you get that netflix a

  screen that's like would you like to

  join netflix yeah like what what what no

  no no you put your put your what had

  waited for the last several years been

  your password with ya or password with

  someone else's of a sudden it doesn't

  work that netflix returns zero results

  at 4044 a forehand and you're like oh

  fuck i've been i'm sorry it's like you

  know no more netflix and chill for me

  mhm but so I do remember a day those

  halcyon days when when

  yeah you could scroll through days and

  days but you were about to say something

  about that will not know I feel I feel I

  can you know show you something

  oh you like you're rubbing in here well

  you know i just want to mention is that

  somebody told me this factoid which is

  an interesting empirically interesting

  factoid but I'm finding it immensely

  interesting I kind of can't stop

  thinking about it i was saying that

  somebody how am I i was introduced this

  guy english comedian as it called Stuart

  Lee and certainly is a has in the past

  like two months become like my I'm

  obsessed with this guy i just i want i

  want to see everything this guy's ever

  done and it all started with turning on

  the netflix and I flip pass this thing

  I've never seen and never heard of it

  says stuart least comedy vehicle and you

  know a little stars stars work right

  ya got the red stars you know what

  she'll it's nice to see three stars for

  starting this is really good

  this thing is just a sliver shy of five

  stars like wow it's it's a you know this

  sounds like the kind of thing I would

  like if the average rating for this is

  just under our stars I should watch this

  yeah and I didn't I loved it and then I

  don't know this is true and I'm sure

  I'll hear about it now I'm reliably

  informed that that is

  their estimation of now you would give

  it all right the algorithm knows you

  know that sounds pretty straightforward

  and maybe it is but for some reason I

  kind of can't stop thinking about it

  right because it's infinitely

  fascinating to me like how they're

  guessing and like so then i raided and

  that's going to change future things but

  they don't tell you that it doesn't say

  you know it used to be back in the day

  even back in the DVD days it would say

  like okay four stars or like when they

  say that we hear stuff we think you'll

  like it would even show you what they

  think you would read it but I don't know

  what the if it is true that the change

  that over the very interesting

  technology somebody is watching you

  learn a duty and you get no privacy sue

  em well this is the thing there is

  we've talked about this before but it's

  becoming more and more to all the time

  there is no empirical truth anymore

  Merlin there are right there are no

  4-stars they told us in the eighties

  they just didn't have a proof for it

  there's no empirical truth there is only

  conditional subjective truth and so

  there four stars doesn't exist there's

  only now four stars for you and I think

  Yelp is the last place where four stars

  yelp and pitchfork are the last place

  where four stars are are still like some

  kind of I guess Yelp is four stars that

  are collected from from 10,000 people

  that you would not like to be stuck on

  an elevator with and pitchfork is still

  some dumb kids in a room telling you

  what things are good but everything else

  works i don't know i don't read too much

  anymore bit around the time of the

  Travis Morrison debacle it really

  started to feel like it's somebody who

  really wants to impress their older


  yeah even though they didn't really

  listen to the album i had a travis

  moore's in conversation the other day

  thousands heartbreak

  well it was but will that still sticks

  in the crop there in seattle doesn't

  well yeah but now I feel like Travis

  Morrison's Travis Stan record the famous

  0.0 from pitchfork is becoming a thing

  like where were you when Kennedy was

  killed among a certain group of

  people who followed in Iraq religiously

  and and so that it's it's it's a thing

  where like how how many people were at

  the velvet underground concert in 1966

  not very many people but then over the

  years the people that claim to have been


  yeah grow and grow until it it would

  have been a little bit of 50,000 person

  concert and I think only thousand people

  have about the first album but they all

  miss Chloe O'Brian know that's right

  exactly that's exactly what i was trying

  to say buddy the velvet underground is

  gonna make the nineteen sixties look

  like the nineteen-thirties well that's

  right that's except the

  nineteen-thirties are going to make the

  velvet underground look likes stan

  kenton so in the sense in the sense of

  the pitchfork angle with Travis Morrison

  angle it's become more and more now I'm

  meeting stranger

  this is the thing women when Travis tan

  came out the number of people that were

  directly affected by that rating started

  at Travis himself emanated out to the

  National to his label mates right we're

  putting out that album and counting on

  it to to be transformative and then to

  all the fans of the dismemberment plan

  and all of the you know the larger

  circle of

  circle of

  people who were you actually bought and

  listened to that record what when where

  and what travis moore's and

  dismemberment plan were like one of

  those rare bands where like they were

  really good and they were critically

  acclaimed whatever and everybody liked

  them and people seem pretty cool that he

  was one of those like it was one of

  those like I don't know like Grand Slam

  kind of things and when that came along

  it was like in New York 911 the drummer

  war fingerless gloves there were a lot

  of things about them that stood out

  anywhere dance people at Dancing the

  shows they play dance music dance their

  shells were so crazy but now I'm meeting

  people in airports that are using Travis

  tan as their calling card like oh you


  hey nice to meet you like this though

  they'll be talking to me right and

  they're like I know who you are you're

  John Roderick and Travis tan am i right

  and then I'll be like what are we

  talking about and they're like you know

  Travis tan like I'm on your side I'm on

  your team because i also thought that

  that was a tragedy and it's like whoa

  I'm having this conversation more and

  more often now and I feel like I feel

  like it is becoming emblematic of a time

  of a moment where the critics who

  formerly were our friends are now our

  enemies and and locating us in a time

  and space 9 2006 or whatever like it's

  it's it's becoming the it's becoming the

  velvet underground of our time

  Wow Travis stan is the indie rock record

  that is going to make the sixties look

  like the 20 so I so I don't know what to

  make of that right arms but but you

  cannot you cannot pick your cultural

  markers in real time it only happens I

  think retro actively there are a lot of

  things where you thought oh this is the

  thing that's going to be remembered

  right this is the rilo kiley album

  that's gonna that's the temple that's

  holding up this whole era

  yeah then it turns out know it's the

  it's travis stands the temple so huh

  don't put that in your pipe and smoke it

  well I think about that your baby put on

  your paper due on you do for you forgive

  him for your chili Travis you know

  Travis is a magical creature that he had

  a lot of your chili right he just didn't

  answer his bandmates oh right got the

  big cats eating some chili yeah and I

  think what I think the Travis's magical

  feature was that he came in and he was

  like you know to to my bandmates we are

  here in the land of plenty go ahead and

  forage for food once again give us the

  oil do not become addicted to can chill

  and so the so and then he just traipse

  off into the garden t dandelions or

  whatever it was that he was doing it was

  that my protest was that these bandmates

  who had never acknowledged right they

  had never even nodded at me or looked at

  me now suddenly we're going through my

  cupboards and like look I found a can of

  of the of sliced pineapple and I'm like

  hold on you gotta do you know I'm here

  right yeah you at least say hi to me as

  you want as you troop into my house

  before you're going through my like in

  my office

  Merlin there is a space there's a space

  in my office

  don't so there's a guy on my floor that

  had a big photo studio and you know and

  then legitimately making making some

  form of art even if its commercial

  photography right he's using it as an

  artistic space and then at a certain

  point he got the Entrepreneurship bug

  and he decided that he was going to

  expand his operation to making herbal


  hmm and there's a space on our floor

  that was available and this guy had a

  very large Basin he obviously was

  well-funded either by his by the the

  profits of his own output or maybe he

  was funded offshore maybe some angel

  investors or some venture capitalists

  said or his parents had funded his

  operation but so he took over one of

  these spaces and started making herbal

  teas there

  wow so all of a sudden on the floor of

  the place where everyone

  else is working in caustics there is

  this constant sort of sickly sweet smell

  of teas being manufactured and I don't

  know how that's all going down but but

  then not only are they

  exporting these dry tease but they are

  making wet t in there and putting them

  in giant t canvas this is up to code

  I don't know i don't think you can be in

  a building full of podcasting and

  caustics and start making herbal teas I

  don't want to be didactic but I don't

  think that's that's not cool

  no it's not i don't think it is it

  doesn't seem hygienic well or whatever I

  mean there's a lot of things about this

  story I'm about to tell that don't seem

  hygienic but they are there they're

  taking these giant sort of

  torpedo-shaped canisters of wet t and

  they're slapping them down the elevator

  into i kid you not a former google bus

  like they have three vehicles they have

  a former google bus they have a fedex

  truck where they've stripped all the

  they stripped all the riding off of you

  can still see the shadow and then they

  have like a they have a commuter bus

  like an airport commuter bus and they're

  filling these things up with these teas

  and these buses are taking a look at

  parking spots fill them up with these

  teas and off they go

  I don't know why don't know who buys who

  has a party where they're like let's get

  three or four canisters of wet p in here

  uh-huh that are different her ballot

  ease and it's like I don't know what

  this business is but any uh anyway all

  of a sudden the is like it and like

  let's say it sits on the one hand it

  does seem kinda like a front but that's

  a lot of work for a front they must have

  somebody who was sweaty somebody's out

  there drinking wet team and we got a

  live one

  yeah it might be all these places that

  are that have like fruit loops in a

  giant hopper and then also wet tease em

  but so this place then started to employ

  people because they're doing a booming

  business here and so they're hiring

  people now these are this is the next

  level the next next layer of people that

  are in and out of my art building

  these are not artists or if they are

  artists they call themselves t artists

  but they are just people working at the

  tea plant and they are universally in

  their twenties they have their thin

  people and they have man buns my god so

  there's five or six guys with man buns

  all of a sudden shrimping t in this

  place and to the man they do not look at

  you when they pass you in the hall

  oh that's weird yeah yeah this sounds

  like what it sounds like Hydra or

  something it's like it's kinda like

  hipster Hydra there's something very

  very uncool about ya know that doesn't

  seem right

  this is a building this is what happened

  to saying to get whatever happened to

  the nod nod

  whatever happened to the not on the same

  you gotta sit I don't like talking to

  people and whatever whatever happens

  just acknowledging I don't think I'm a

  big acknowledge her i believe in

  acknowledging got to acknowledge its a

  millisecond of eye contact not enough to

  communicate anything except hello ICU

  and then not froze cops man buns

  whatever it is come on people give me

  the nod got to get the knot and this

  building is characterized by long long

  hallways right so you come out of the


  no that's my nightmare walking down this

  long hallway and here comes a man button

  pushing a fucking cart full of wet t and

  here and i'm looking at the entire time

  like you acknowledge me son of a bitch

  and so I've started as they're walking

  as they as they get right next to me is

  really thin guys with man buns

  I'm like Hello and you know like not so

  loud that it's super aggressive like not

  hello like Hello it but but with no

  advance warning just like right when

  they are one foot from it's happened

  enough that that's a reference it refers

  to how they don't do it yeah I'm fucking

  mad at them now i'm at the whole

  operating mine is im- great thanks how

  are you

  haha right right exactly and i'm one

  step from that like you know nice of you

  to ask

  and so so i'm i'm pouring a ton of bad

  vibes into this tea room hoping that it

  goes into the tea and then swapping wet

  t out there and it's pull a bad vibes

  like a Latin American movie we're

  cooking cooking makes things explode

  right on time movies at the movies were

  like depending on how who she's mad

  so the food's gonna make everybody we're

  here now everybody would have

  intercourse because she made tortillas

  like you're gonna send this bad vibes

  into the wet t this is like a losa

  marrows perros yeah sure your that's

  that's dogs little dogs in love with

  always love except the one dog kills all

  the talks

  Oh boiler no es bueno

  but anyway yeah right the tortillas are

  full of it makes everybody have sex and

  then there's a hundred years of solitude

  yeah that'd be nice this is a situation

  where I'm filling this tea with as much

  bad vibe as i can so good so that the

  people out there with the the fruit loop

  poppers are like oh man I'm not ordering

  this T anymore it's full of bad vibes

  and then the business collapses and the

  guy has to go back to making photography

  for a living and all these man buns are

  then like spurted out into the world

  like spores to create their bad vibes

  they're like shitty no nod culture they

  can take that into the streets and see

  how well it works right

  yeah now I know I likely put the shit

  you knot culture that is a shitty known

  on culture

  yeah if you have a node culture then

  like take it back to the farm or

  whatever don't you know like if you're

  always like it's not like you're like a

  Mexican drug lord you know what I mean

  you won't you fucking with the u-dub


  yeah where you didn't even get into u

  dub no no these are people that are that

  are used to being out in a place where

  you I guess you don't not at the county

  line behind the community making college

  and I don't they're not even vapors

  because they seem by the thinnest some

  fields by their work in the tea

  community that's exactly what I think I

  think there are vegans and I think you

  know that thing is the man bun the man

  bun it arrived we all mocked it

  mercilessly and then it persisted and

  then there was that there was that

  moment where everybody was like well you

  know there was that there was the

  blowback where people like stop mocking

  man but as we get it we get it all right

  for now maybe you know and that an

  attempt to make man buns as the two to

  make them serious uh-huh just they have

  they persisted they've they have they've

  lasted through our scorn and so now

  we're meant to would never meant to be

  like okay I guess you know I guess I'm

  the dummy for mocking somebody else's

  style I guess I'm I'm guess I'm the one

  that's not a little monster

  yeah I'm not one that's not inclusive

  enough but in reality no they are still

  dumb and marketable they are you know

  like a like I said the other day there

  are too many top knots and not enough

  samurai mm you know you you cannot just

  fucking where topknot it is cultural

  appropriation black something which is

  samurai oh I like the way you took that

  one that's good you know what I mean

  like yeah one that's insensitive you are

  insensitive to samurai yeah so fuck you

  with your topknot it's no good and if

  topknot is symbolic of no not culture

  then I say burned all the ground right

  you can't you're not going to be in my

  art space where I was formerly making an

  encaustic podcast it doesn't cost

  anything it doesn't cost anything to not

  to nod and i don't understand i do not

  get and this is the big this is that

  what I feel like is a component of the

  shove the shyness arms race but this is

  include things like the medium post on

  how to handle the introvert in your life

  yeah that stuff where it's like oh no

  you're not you're not an introvert I'm

  an intron see you guys

  yeah I'm so shy that I can't exist in

  the world and that is a that is like not

  a handicap it's a handy capable and

  you're not allowed to scorn me for a

  because nodding at you take so much of

  my life force that I collapse into a

  sobbing heap

  yeah so now you have to live in a world

  where people don't nod and smile at you

  a common courtesy a basic human


  because it impedes my ability to be as

  shy as I think I am I mean you need to

  get back and you need to walk in there

  and you say look what exactly the fuck

  is going on here

  yeah you go into the white tea house and

  just sit and just sparked the man buns

  and get in there and see who's in charge

  of this joint and what exactly the fuck

  is going on here

  ok so here's what happened last week

  sitting in my podcast space i'm getting

  ready to record some vocals on this

  these vocal tracks that i'm working on

  which is a whole separate conversation

  and this is my private my normal private

  time in the art studio right all the

  people that are there during the day go

  home and then the only people that are

  there at night are people working in

  within the encaustic arts and so I can

  sing in my little wing and there's

  nobody else they're not no you're not

  bothering anyone

  and nobody's randomness is getting on

  your track that's right that's right

  there's nobody over there using a power

  tool and more importantly I'm not

  bothering anybody

  if you come into the the space at 9pm

  and you hear somebody singing you

  recognize that you are the one who is

  arriving late you are the interloper

  someone's they're making music and

  that's their right whereas if I'm

  singing it two o'clock in the afternoon

  and you're sitting at your computer

  doing graphic arts you are you

  it's within your rights to come over and

  knock on the door and say seriously what

  are you doing

  who but so I'm in there I'm getting

  ready to lay down some vocal tracks and

  then all of a sudden I hear a band

  practicing here and this space is very

  much like no band practice

  I i use myspace to make music but it is

  not a band practice it isn't under John

  as at the terms of being there it's not

  this is not like a storage shed type

  situation that's one of the things they

  say right when you walk in like no band

  practice can and so what I'm what i

  realize is i get i I go down the hall

  put my ear to the door

  and I realized that this is a situation

  where the man buns have now colonized

  the space with enmity operation where

  they have no connection to any of the

  art people there they are now there to

  there are two layers of being attendant

  away from ever having spoken to anybody

  involved in the building

  uh-huh someone at the T joint has said

  either yes you can

  band practice here or what I really

  suspect is one of the man buns has a key

  and he's like you know what there's

  nobody in there's nobody down there

  after nine just off able to scan

  operation that's right huh

  and so I'm not somebody who's going to

  pound on the door during band practice

  even if it's one that I am pouring scorn

  through the door is what kind of music I

  know it's not relevant necessarily but

  guess what kind of music the plan it

  just it felt like there was a person in

  there they could actually play the

  guitar i was in which Annie or like

  trans am like 11

  no no it actually kind of felt like Adam

  amalgam of of of some sort of you know

  hardrock plus a Lumineers style stomp

  bulk oh you know it's one of these

  things where that nobody has any nobody

  has any jumping-off point so it's just a

  mission like this modern songs where

  everyone kind of does a charity thing on


  yeah they'll say Oh kind of thing

  yeah hey hey oh well bloomin years okay

  i was thinking something else

  it's all it's all like a post Mumford

  music no dear right that's you Mumford &

  post Mumford yeah and i think really it

  was that it was that bad from canada

  from Montreal that started it all

  the one that dealt that the that to

  David Byrne and David Bowie all the

  David's old jobs Empire weekend know

  that they came after then they have

  different not really not really but it's

  sick but the one from the 144 montreal

  where they were waving flags on stage

  and somebody had a typewriter and no

  no young guy knows i know you mean the I

  know you mean the yeah we can play drums

  on their heads

  yeah and somebody's got a horn somebody

  else's horn arcade fire arcade fire

  yeah they do a lot of that oil oh stop

  stop typing on typewriter honk david

  byrne comes out he's like I like this

  yeah whatever goes i'll buy it you know

  it's like LCD soundsystem where where as

  a collective a feeling like this is the


  yes and then everybody buys it and says

  then celebrates it was something about

  alko right but that's right so arcade

  fire is the Falco fire is gonna make

  Falco look like The Velvet Underground

  yeahhh mister

  did I ever tell you that I was on tour

  in canada with a opening with the

  opening for the tour of not a surf and

  death cab for cutie and after the show

  some a French Canadians came up and

  handed me a CDR and said really loved

  your show and it can even do a French

  accent anymore it's been so long since

  I've been on the United States i can get

  even do any of my accent yeah the event

  any account opposition we love this show

  they had to be the CDR and it was the

  arcade fire oh come on really

  and yeah I'm gonna and then two years

  later the biggest band in the world

  yeah and I was like I had that feeling

  of proximity to success

  I was like oh yeah you're my story every

  store you expect out of course I don't

  know these kids are gonna catch on if I

  yeah but this is the problem when you

  are that proximate to success right if

  you were if you like every Williams as a

  college roommate

  yeah it's not like it matters right you

  can't say oh you're going to be

  successful and so I want to be your

  wingman or something like I can't have I

  couldn't have been that moment said

  arcade fire i would like to invest my

  current net worth which is 40 long

  winters t-shirts and a box of kazoos i

  would like to get in early

  yeah and apply by thirty percent of your

  business for this nominal fee right like

  the like the graffiti artist at the

  facebook campus that ended up being

  worth 200 million dollars because they

  gave him a point one percent of the

  company instead of paying five thousand

  dollars to graffiti their their office

  you could I couldn't do that with the

  arcade fire and say here's a box along

  winners t-shirts that you don't want any

  but now i only thirty percent of your

  operation that people tried to do that

  to me back in the day like I took some

  band photos for you and so rather than

  get paid the five hundred dollars that

  cost i would like twenty percent of the

  Western State hurricanes that's

  complicated that's a complicated


  it was very complicated anyway so that

  it's all posts arcade fire post Mumford

  & Sons and stop rock and I'm here this

  through the door of the tea parlor and

  let me tell you Merlin I sent some

  emails haha oh did you go right back to

  your to Garrett and send some emails

  that's right I went I went all the way

  to the top closeout logic you just shut

  it all down back it up time to write

  some emails

  that's right I said I said a mirror i

  sent a letter to the mayor's office i

  sent a letter to the to the governor i

  sent a letter to elon musk and i said

  this will let's eat

  Cece let's lock mask say this will not


  I you know I have suffered through these

  non-coding add buns enough i want this

  whole operation shut down i want all

  these people out of the building and

  it's gonna be rats leaving a sinking

  ship and I don't know where they're

  gonna go and i haven't even taken by

  john and they won't say goodbye and i'm

  not on the way out i will say as I'm

  walking right past them i'll turn and

  i'll say farewell

  it's a good day sir good day sir how did

  any line must be the mayor get back to

  you know well the mirror the mirror

  right now has complicated feelings about

  me and Eli must never replies to any of

  my emails

  yeah and that you know that feels like

  that feels like an insult because i feel

  like i should or twenty percent what he

  does just based on the number of times

  i've mentioned him on this

  podcast it's a good point I you know

  there's a lot about this doesn't exactly

  add up

  I mean there's the part that adds up my

  first of all like making tea

  I don't know is that you get a

  straight-up business because a weed


  it smells a wheel the thing is weeds not

  illegal anymore in Seattle so you don't

  have to mask on negativity

  yeah you can just manufacture weed all

  day and just be like haha but uh but no

  I feel like I feel like people are

  trying to like the photography guy he's

  not satisfied people just aren't

  satisfied right so he's like I've got

  started I've got to start a separate

  operation is going to be this tea

  company it's gonna be like the megaman x

  yeah that's going to be at whole foods

  all around America here's the thing

  that's this whole thats hanging up a

  little bit and I i just know this most

  from watching TV and and seeing things

  around town but you know you got the

  whole like artisanal butcher thing you

  got small-batch thing right you got the

  whole like guys who suddenly grew beards

  and started wearing plaid thing i know

  this is already like a five or even ten

  year old trend but that's the thing and

  it's you know clearly there's this whole

  like we're locally sourced this resource

  that the thing is though the thing that

  keeps a lot of those things going is

  that there's a huge somewhere between

  performative and transparent component

  to it so on the one hand is the

  transparency of know i can tell you for

  sure that this pig came from down the

  block or that i know this is fair trade

  you know

  sparkling water or whatever but so

  there's that there's that transparency

  part of it right but there's also the

  performative part of it where we want

  you to see us making we want to give

  tours of where we make the whiskey we

  want you to come in and be able to take

  classes on how to butcher a pig

  there's a whole big part of this is what

  we don't want is some kind of you know

  for the sake of argument like a

  replacement sweaty in an encaustic

  painting factory that would be an

  unusual way to make an artisanal tee

  you're so right wire they asked their

  troopers why is where the band is

  practicing this feels like a jamup well

  see that's the thing they could be they

  could be in store for they could be

  selling brass t pipes

  arm and like the man buns could all be

  behind the counter with them would be

  flames and don't know if you can find

  they want technology but they wouldn't

  have to they could just make it higher

  one personable person standard don't be

  like welcome to the tea party welcome to

  the teashop e a and a look behind me as

  as the man buns all work before just

  there like history of Olympus they don't

  know that talking is not their strong

  suit they might sing a little bit when

  somebody dies but apart from that

  they're mostly just they're just like 10

  to the pipe exactly somebody somebody

  gets zoomed up into a television set and

  the man's all go don't go top-20 went to

  you work at you go

  yeah I I feel like that some it is a

  missed opportunity and I don't maybe it

  is that the San Francisco's ation of

  Seattle hasn't been

  comparison complete yet i think it was a

  plane obviously the joke still being

  like a Portland thing

  well I think that's super seriously and

  but so but the weird part is there's one

  thing of like okay let's add value by

  doing something something repackaging t

  there's that part but then the whole

  like they're making like tubs of tea to

  settle somewhere is weird the whole the

  whole operation stinks but i can't find

  anything about it that's illegal except

  for the band practice

  yeah I feel like the ideal what's

  illegal about it is that it's that it's

  aesthetically illegal it's just that is

  to synthetically if they were just not

  it's how hard is it to not if they

  nodded maybe I'd be their best friend

  maybe i would buy a fucking jiggity a

  week huh you know drug too weak to give

  me their slogan I'll see that's good

  that they could use that but they're

  never even get to hear that because they

  won't even acknowledge you

  yeah i mean i have a friend in San

  Francisco who uh who is co-owner of a

  restaurant it's a brewpub sorry brewpub

  if it's different from a gastropub this

  is a bi well it absolutely because this

  is a brew pub where they also give

  lessons in homebrewing so it's more of a

  brew resource resource through resource

  and when they when they were talking

  about opening this thing here's this is

  the modern-day right they put up

  Kickstarter or some kind of crowd

  funding thing they set out to the

  neighborhood and they said don't you

  want to brew pub in your neighborhood

  you guys right now living in this

  neighborhood without a brewpub who's

  with me

  who's with me and they raised the money

  to open the brew college the brewpub

  college through crowdfunding around the

  neighbor so it's like but it's but it's

  the the neighborhood that's such a

  different way of handling it my goodness

  the neighborhood doesn't directly profit

  from it they profit from it by having

  now an interesting thing in their

  neighborhood but it's this idea of like

  collectively why don't we open

  collectively why don't you help us open

  this thing that will profit for us but

  you will you'll reap the benefits of

  having your neighborhood smell like

  cooked tomatoes whatever that smell is

  when beers brewing that smells like

  tomato soup

  oh right like breweries a beer brewery

  has a very distinctive I think it must

  be pops

  it's the hops it's a very high too tangy

  smell i'm going to busch gardens kid I

  mean you never forget that smell

  yeah if it were me and I gotta and I

  gotta fly under my door that said go to

  our kickstarter and help us fund our

  brew pub in your neighborhood i would

  start an alternate Kickstarter send me

  the money to keep this brew pub from

  happening because i don't like the smell

  of tomatoes holiday iconic stomper if

  you should be away like a stopper it's a

  way where you go in and you basically

  paid something that happened a

  Kickstarter sounds like how Mumford &

  Sons fucking funded therefore yeah it's

  like Oh exactly


  boom boom 1 & 4 1 & 4 mm thick stop it

  stop it Nick stop the shit out of that

  make it make it viral I don't want i

  don't thing is is there anything worse

  then home brewers and I normally a lot

  of letters now who is I feel like there

  are a lot of beards listening this

  program that are also making growlers

  for their own beer making growlers but

  when you when you stand around in a

  group of homebrewers it's like it's like

  it's like if a bunch of farmers from the

  thirties we're on a space station the

  the level of bunch of farmers in a in a

  small cafe in a town of 2,500 people the

  that that level of conversation but on a

  spaceship that's what I feel like being

  in a group of homebrewers is like

  because it's both very retro but all and

  and also very unnecessary

  mhm very specialized but transported to

  a world in which future shock is a big

  component of it right we are making our

  own home brew now for some reason

  because of this because we have created

  an alternate future we have gone back in

  time and we have created a world in

  which Cowboys at rocket ships

  haha because of steampunk and now we're

  living in a world where we don't need to

  buy beer because we can pay 40 times as

  much to make it ourselves we can spend

  we can spend 40 times as much to have

  the inconvenience of making ourselves

  hmm it feels like I'm on a spaceship

  made out of steam tubes and I don't have

  it there's no point of entry for me I

  did not want it did not want cowboy

  brass Rockets i do not want homemade


  mhm and I don't want to live in a future

  where the president was homemade beer

  and artisanal tease because what I and

  what I'm imagining is that

  it's going to create a future where the

  2040s going to make the 2010 look like

  the eighteen sixties that didn't happen

  a lot to process and I'm still trying to

  figure it out to i live in annex herb

  yeah i'm waiting for the fruit first

  group of engineers to come out here and

  take over our our community center from

  and i'll be there celebrating my new

  squid overlords

  uh-huh but I'm trying to figure out how

  I can get twenty percent of the company

  yeah I think you got you got to take a

  whole party down there you got it you

  got a group down there and can you get

  common cause with anybody else in the

  building who doesn't like these team

  owners well they're artists right so

  they're all suffering from this case of

  the shiz

  yeah nobody wants any confrontation and

  that's why I sent those emails instead

  of pounding on the door and saying who

  the fuck are you

  yeah yeah and waving a copy of my rental


  you know I don't want to be that guy now

  who's everybody else is in there space

  you know like like painting with a

  screwdriver and nobody wants any problem

  with anybody let alone let alone a bunch

  of skinny man bonds huh

  but a but there should be there should

  be a moment of a movement and maybe you

  know maybe I'll have a march with the

  mayor at the head of it

  Elon Musk is there on a hoverboard and

  we're marching through the streets

  saying take your reprehensible culture

  out to the exurbs you can also take what

  you learn from being so steep and

  hip-hop culture you bring your crew like

  you bring all of your like-minded people

  write your posse will have a dance-off

  pump pump pump pump pump pump pump pump

  pump that's exactly it