Roderick on the Line

Ep. 220: "Find the Hippopotamus"


  this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

  brought to you in part by Casper Casper [TS]

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  checkout to get ten percent off and by [TS]

  the nuisance committee please stay tuned [TS]

  after the episode for a special message [TS]

  about the 2016 election [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

  mmm pretty good huh [TS]

  I have a little nosh tell em who else in [TS]

  my coffee while you're eating [TS]

  yeah I always forget where you are but [TS]

  you're really johnny-on-the-spot [TS]

  johnny-on-the-spot for starting at eight [TS]

  yeah yeah there's a spot and i am [TS]

  johnnie upon it you are upon it and m [TS]

  boy I gave I gave you the signal [TS]

  yeah which is an unflagging an effect on [TS]

  inflected beep that's right right we we [TS]

  established this very early or very [TS]

  early on we would say bleep or bloop [TS]

  yeah I don't think we've discussed it [TS]

  much or ever but that's how we would [TS]

  speak to each other on the internet we [TS]

  would say blue pen blue porcelain [TS]

  doesn't such a bleep and bloop for a [TS]

  very long time not to be confused with [TS]

  gleep glorp no no I have nothing to do [TS]

  with it all you would say bleep and I [TS]

  would say blorp or vice versa and then [TS]

  we would start the show [TS]

  yeah and then it got shortened some at [TS]

  some point along the way to beep uh huh [TS]

  i would just write beep with not no [TS]

  punctuation so I sent you a beep just a [TS]

  minute ago and you immediately called me [TS]

  and i had a mouthful peanut butter [TS]

  sandwich cheese Louise I'm sorry I'm [TS]

  late [TS]

  ok i turned a corner here's something I [TS]

  turned upon which johnny turned a corner [TS]

  is my son [TS]

  yeah okay i'll share this with you ah [TS]

  you know I think there's a couple [TS]

  schools of thought well as many schools [TS]

  of thought there's many many schools of [TS]

  thought about doing things and two kinds [TS]

  of people [TS]

  yeah right two kinds of people one kind [TS]

  thinks there are many yes their schools [TS]

  of thought [TS]

  yes yeah and so I I historically was was [TS]

  a variety of things that i do [TS]

  differently than other people [TS]

  something is doing the past that almost [TS]

  everybody does here's the thing most I'm [TS]

  trying to diagram with them [TS]

  okay well it's hard to describe this [TS]

  here's the thing we don't how can I put [TS]

  this [TS]

  I don't edit this show it is it is fun [TS]

  funny and farcical to me when I see what [TS]

  my wonderful wonderful friends go [TS]

  through with editing a show and they [TS]

  proudly display all these millions of [TS]

  cuts to take out every mm and all and [TS]

  the extent of editing I've done on here [TS]

  was before I eat you [TS]

  he just started saying your daughter's [TS]

  name like a crazy person I used to try [TS]

  to bleep it then I said forget it i'm [TS]

  done with that it's too much work down a [TS]

  bleep there and then occasionally these [TS]

  episodes I just didn't put out that's [TS]

  that was my editing but it's too big [TS]

  swim lanes straight o'clock across and [TS]

  it might my thinking you know it's a yes [TS]

  and as soon as we are on the stage [TS]

  the show has begun for so let's share [TS]

  with our listeners that unless you're [TS]

  your internet brakes which it does we [TS]

  don't have a thing where we I say good [TS]

  morning John are you ready to record our [TS]

  podcast no no because that would ruin it [TS]

  because we're going to you yet that you [TS]

  gotta just you i want you to see us [TS]

  we're picking up the phone were speaking [TS]

  to each other and we don't there's no [TS]

  there's no like I don't want to kind of [TS]

  in band signal about whether you're [TS]

  ready to use your phone beep beep bloop [TS]

  and so then the other part is so I [TS]

  believe in that and and lots of people [TS]

  disagree with that because they love [TS]

  their editing I know do they love their [TS]

  editing the other thing is I used to be [TS]

  the kind of person that said when I saw [TS]

  you saw a person show up on skype skype [TS]

  at them and I'd say hi [TS]

  are you ready to record our internet [TS]

  podcast and they go yes I'm ready to [TS]

  record our internet podcast or no [TS]

  I'm almost ready to record our internet [TS]

  podcast I gotta go go make a number one [TS]

  or a coffee [TS]

  yeah I stop stop doing that to see I [TS]

  stopped doing that so now if you did to [TS]

  me I'm like this they ok recording i [TS]

  would say yeah you know I was ready for [TS]

  love I'm here [TS]

  yeah right i was really when I was here [TS]

  w you stop doing that with everybody is [TS]

  that what you're saying well I you know [TS]

  the let the last one was a nice to John [TS]

  siracusa yeah he's the worst he's the [TS]

  worst at this because like I he shows up [TS]

  exact exactly our point i'm always [TS]

  always always [TS]

  that's right there a problem yeah he's [TS]

  nice and he's an Italian so he shows up [TS]

  and then I used to say hi [TS]

  uh-huh you require internet podcast for [TS]

  podcasting here and right and so what [TS]

  you would turn into the penguin [TS]

  Oh Squidward but yeah and then these [TS]

  hours and then eat the we've recorded i [TS]

  don't know how many episodes 37 episodes [TS]

  of that show and he's never the first [TS]

  one to talk [TS]

  so all the line has been picked up he [TS]

  does not acknowledge me and so then I [TS]

  say they said and eventually I said you [TS]

  know it's funny I said to him I said [TS]

  it's funny chance acusa you never never [TS]

  talk first [TS]

  yeah and then he stays quiet for a while [TS]

  oh and eventually I realized it's [TS]

  because he's one of these monsters who [TS]

  is used to being on a show that is [TS]

  edited we say hi [TS]

  are you ready to reporter internet [TS]

  podcast oh and then you do you go around [TS]

  he says everybody recording you say is [TS]

  everybody had their stuff turned off [TS]

  turn off your air conditioner and go [TS]

  through all this stuff that this show is [TS]

  what's the word energetic everything [TS]

  that happens on this show is happening [TS]

  on this show that is one hundred percent [TS]

  true that include that one conversation [TS]

  about the show everything that happens [TS]

  on this show is happening on this show [TS]

  it's all happening right it's very [TS]

  unusual for us to do anything that is [TS]

  not part of the show on the show it so [TS]

  well I can't think of a single time it's [TS]

  happened but then I've never listen [TS]

  never seen the show yeah I when I go on [TS]

  someone's when i'm on guest as a guest [TS]

  on someone else's podcast and they pick [TS]

  up they call me on the skype and I say [TS]

  hey whats up guys and they say hey John [TS]

  it's me bill and hide [TS]

  me Tony or you know they let me start by [TS]

  telling you a little about myself [TS]

  well then you know where we have I have [TS]

  guessed it on podcast where we talked [TS]

  for 15 minutes [TS]

  top shelf talking at least on one end [TS]

  who and then there and then they say [TS]

  well we should get started uh i have [TS]

  almost I've almost logged off [TS]

  I've almost locked off the internet [TS]

  forever when that has happened that goes [TS]

  up are you are you are you fucking [TS]

  serious thats that's monstrous you think [TS]

  I've got 40 40 hours to do this I was [TS]

  just giving you that was that was [TS]

  already good good good shit always be [TS]

  always be taping you know just get it [TS]

  get it all [TS]

  that's good because you know it's a [TS]

  potentially shows these people were [TS]

  talking about podcast but be people to [TS]

  get their outline and they get their [TS]

  banter and get the bit like and get [TS]

  explain to you how old this little for [TS]

  you come on we're going to describe who [TS]

  you are and we're going to talk about [TS]

  that and you know I when I went on a car [TS]

  ride one time with a couple of the [TS]

  couple of people from the internet this [TS]

  was a this is a car ride IRL [TS]

  oh dear ok arm and they were in town to [TS]

  do a live version of their podcast these [TS]

  are people that we know you know what [TS]

  I'm saying oh these are some people that [TS]

  I know [TS]

  ok so we're driving we were driving [TS]

  around after their live podcast show and [TS]

  they were talking to one another that [TS]

  are still performing let's be honest [TS]

  they don't even off the stage for an [TS]

  hour we are we were on our way to an [TS]

  ihop to it which is for those of you in [TS]

  other countries it's the International [TS]

  House of Pancakes ironic [TS]

  yeah so if you don't have a hops there [TS]

  you must not have international pancakes [TS]

  in your country probably flying i think [TS]

  it's called flag of convenience right [TS]

  well the flag of convenience of [TS]

  international house of pancakes is if [TS]

  you recall all the flags who released [TS]

  all the scandinavian legs who remember [TS]

  the original the original branding was [TS]

  like like all the flags skin maybe I [TS]

  remember that feeling [TS]

  like a what kind of a kind of house we [TS]

  call a frame that it had a kind of [TS]

  Scandinavian feel to it and I remember [TS]

  they had a variety of syrups on the [TS]

  table they did they did and the roof was [TS]

  was was an a-frame in order to for the [TS]

  snow to slide off in the in their home [TS]

  country of Scandinavia where [TS]

  International House of Pancakes surely [TS]

  started just like haagen-dazs ice cream [TS]

  yes is a great scandinavian brand who [TS]

  imported directly from scanning that's [TS]

  right and not at all made in a suburb of [TS]

  New Jersey whatever and I remember when [TS]

  you know International House of Pancakes [TS]

  it is for me dated to a time back when [TS]

  certain kinds of chain fast food was [TS]

  still fancy remember when absolutely we [TS]

  had like.we chain called bill Knapp's [TS]

  and was kind of like upscale ok nappp [TS]

  and it was kind of like a slightly make [TS]

  nicer than Perkins but like slightly [TS]

  upscale chain comfort food but it's like [TS]

  where you got places to go after church [TS]

  if you didn't go to the cafeteria you go [TS]

  to one of these kinds of places bob [TS]

  evans is another woman Bob Evans bob [TS]

  evans that's a quality brand [TS]

  yep and i want to be I want to be called [TS]

  Bob map from now on [TS]

  Bob naps built up your bill maps I feel [TS]

  like that's a that's a super good [TS]

  internet handle high my hand building [TS]

  outcome our guest this week we're gonna [TS]

  bring bill Knapp's anyway i'm driving [TS]

  with these guys yet always you get [TS]

  started i was driving with these guys [TS]

  and they were talking that this was not [TS]

  a thing that they didn't solicit my [TS]

  opinion but they were like yeah you know [TS]

  the thing about our podcast that makes [TS]

  it so successful is that where you know [TS]

  we both come from radio yeah this is the [TS]

  best not cast and so we know what we [TS]

  know what people want to hear we know [TS]

  how to make podcasts because II came [TS]

  from radio and the thing you know one [TS]

  thing I can't stand the other guys like [TS]

  what what I can't stand those podcast [TS]

  was just two guys talking and they don't [TS]

  do any editing [TS]

  and.and I was sitting there sitting on [TS]

  my hands at this point who I had a lot [TS]

  of pop in so i wouldn't talk [TS]

  yep and they went on a 10-minute screen [TS]

  about how podcast that are edited are [TS]

  just the worst like crime against the [TS]

  listener because people want crafted [TS]

  radio people want podcast that are [TS]

  crafted handcrafted and hand and I was [TS]

  just I was sitting there like well shit [TS]

  no no hard part is pretty fun it's fun [TS]

  to do that went with you know and up [TS]

  until this point [TS]

  Merlin up until this point we have never [TS]

  spoken about we've never spoken with [TS]

  pride about the lack of work that we put [TS]

  into this podcast i think a lot of [TS]

  people think you're supposed to be [TS]

  ashamed of not working [TS]

  boy you should listen to my speech I [TS]

  gave it XOXO this year [TS]

  oh yeah that's right so that all right [TS]

  oh yes yes so there's the podcast CD [TS]

  with me that you don't listen to write [TS]

  that you are you felt bad you thought it [TS]

  was I think your phrase we were [TS]

  illegitimate it was jimit legitimate all [TS]

  the work that I do that is the best is [TS]

  also work that I feel is legitimate but [TS]

  that's a whole other everybody should go [TS]

  I don't know if that speech is even [TS]

  online yet it is it online I haven't [TS]

  checked it ok i'll look that up [TS]

  no it's not that you have to check it [TS]

  would just come down your timeline right [TS]

  it would just end up in your feet at the [TS]

  MIT our primary TL yeah yeah on your [TS]

  feet [TS]

  I see I i enjoy unlike I think I'm like [TS]

  you you seem like you don't really [TS]

  listen to podcast at all do you [TS]

  I mean less unless it's something but [TS]

  for a reason it's not part of your [TS]

  workflow you're not a big podcast person [TS]

  for the most part until well let's see [TS]

  let me think about this now for a second [TS]

  if I can still say this i believe i can [TS]

  still say that I have never heard a [TS]

  podcast ok i listened to our an [TS]

  irresponsible number of podcasts that [TS]

  are often very very different types and [TS]

  kinds of podcasts where I mean [TS]

  especially with this particular I don't [TS]

  talk about politics but with this [TS]

  particular season i have adopted [TS]

  half-a-dozen really good luck [TS]

  cast about politics that our second ago [TS]

  I'm sorry to interrupt now everything [TS]

  that's on the show is on the show and [TS]

  secondly when you said types and pop [TS]

  kinds of podcast was that a sort of [TS]

  insider podcast way of saying that some [TS]

  kinda haha like you know me feel like [TS]

  I'm gonna let you wonder it's like types [TS]

  and island types and kinds of podcast [TS]

  but I also let's do thai it's like [TS]

  saying things like fam like you just [TS]

  assume that somebody's vernacular that [TS]

  must mean something [TS]

  damn they say fam and then other people [TS]

  safe and because they heard other people [TS]

  say fam earlier this day when when i [TS]

  wrote you earlier this day that's good [TS]

  right that's my daughter just a moment [TS]

  just a moment earlier this day when are [TS]

  we going to eat this day earlier this [TS]

  day when i wrote you a text and I said [TS]

  can we start recording a half an hour [TS]

  later than we normally do and you said [TS]

  yes [TS]

  what did I right back you said too many [TS]

  things one of them was TTYL which I [TS]

  think well I taught your you i'm sorry [TS]

  you taught me that [TS]

  TTYL you had to go to urban dictionary [TS]

  to figure out what you're saying be [TS]

  careful on that site content was the [TS]

  other one wasn't like i said there's a [TS]

  bazillion or something what did you say [TS]

  I said perfect perfect ! a thing which [TS]

  as i did it i realized i had never done [TS]

  that's not part of my electron eyeliner [TS]

  it [TS]

  oh I like that i sometimes respond [TS]

  sometimes with my with my wife and me [TS]

  and I a starting with other people got [TS]

  very confused i would adopt 00 [TS]

  pronunciation of the great Richard vase [TS]

  from the first scene in the office which [TS]

  is same ethnic perfect i was a perfect [TS]

  perfect that doesn't mean anything [TS]

  anybody but my wife and me if I see [TS]

  perfect [TS]

  nobody's gonna know what that means i [TS]

  don't think that's a bit but i like i [TS]

  like i like your I liked your neologism [TS]

  perfect perfect i will max out [TS]

  pronounced right it's not perfect so I'm [TS]

  trying to say is I wanna get back to [TS]

  these pancakes years [TS]

  all I'm trying to say is everything that [TS]

  happens on the show happens on the show [TS]

  and and and Miley point being that I [TS]

  don't understand this is what Freud [TS]

  calls narcissism of minor differences [TS]

  don't understand why there has to be so [TS]

  much hue and cry Sturm and Drang about [TS]

  all of the people who are doing [TS]

  everything wrong because they're not [TS]

  doing it like you I mean my god I first [TS]

  of all have saved a lot of the podcast i [TS]

  hold dearest in my heart are similar to [TS]

  our show are not high production value [TS]

  things i'm here because i love the [TS]

  people is that there's a program that a [TS]

  lot of our listeners also listen to that [TS]

  I will not mention my name to very very [TS]

  funny podcast that's not a comedy [TS]

  podcast cuz I don't like comedy podcast [TS]

  but Adam Carolla his pancakes are not on [TS]

  my plate and it's it's kind of a running [TS]

  joke that like they've been doing the [TS]

  show for almost 10 years and i still [TS]

  can't quite get the audio quality where [TS]

  they like it to be but you listen to it [TS]

  because because about Marco our Moon's [TS]

  cocinar Marco Arment now he's got notes [TS]

  for us [TS]

  I'm not specifically because I I don't [TS]

  know if you still listen to the program [TS]

  because you blocked him [TS]

  no no I love Marco I'm but the but he is [TS]

  a really he's very into audio quality i [TS]

  don't know if you're aware of this [TS]

  mm so like for example and and work this [TS]

  isn't the show yet so we're going to cut [TS]

  all this out audio quality the yeah cuz [TS]

  I mean we do eventually need to teach [TS]

  you how to record your side that got our [TS]

  money you know [TS]

  no i'm not making this about you I make [TS]

  this about the industry penis about the [TS]

  privilege that people don't realize they [TS]

  have having editing skills but here i [TS]

  just don't know I i don't i'm sounding [TS]

  more dramatic about this I actually feel [TS]

  I actually feeling is more like this [TS]

  noise [TS]

  poof-poof because it's like well can't [TS]

  you just can't there be different kinds [TS]

  of things we all just get along can't we [TS]

  all just can't we all just get along and [TS]

  I guess what I'm trying to say is that [TS]

  like its it would be very weird to me [TS]

  for somebody who claims that they're [TS]

  really into podcast to only listen to [TS]

  really highly produced radio style shows [TS]

  because that's not what I consider a [TS]

  classic podcast I don't think reading a [TS]

  very well written essay / music bed is a [TS]

  podcast either i listen to shows like [TS]

  that i consider a classic podcast to be [TS]

  it spur of the moment talking between [TS]

  people about whatever [TS]

  see now that's a classic podcast well I [TS]

  I don't know but I mean like I mean then [TS]

  you take something like you know another [TS]

  program i used to do with this cotton [TS]

  Adam and that was edited within an inch [TS]

  of its life too much great effect right [TS]

  and that's why you don't do it anymore [TS]

  that got time consuming [TS]

  yeah my sense is that if we had if we [TS]

  had made any attempt to edit this [TS]

  podcast or do anything to it at all and [TS]

  I don't know what the other things you [TS]

  can do a podcast are besides edit it but [TS]

  i think that there must be some things [TS]

  that you could do you could run through [TS]

  a filter you could run this entire [TS]

  podcast through a flanger even we could [TS]

  go to be talking into vocoders where [TS]

  it's turned way up there or a Maryland [TS]

  how are you [TS]

  I just add a flanger to just that little [TS]

  bit because I i think i can do that but [TS]

  i'm not sure cuz im using a ten-year-old [TS]

  program to go go just running through to [TS]

  run through a flanger said it you said [TS]

  it from your mouth to Rodney King's here [TS]

  why can't we all just get along can't we [TS]

  just let people like the things that [TS]

  they like does it doesn't have to turn [TS]

  into some kind of land war in Asia just [TS]

  because people do things differently [TS]

  it's so odd [TS]

  my sense of this conversation is that [TS]

  you have so first of all do you believe [TS]

  me when i say i've never listened to a [TS]

  podcast [TS]

  no I see I think I would be very [TS]

  surprised i don't know i'm done you act [TS]

  but you asked me from ok everything on [TS]

  the show is on the show that's right i [TS]

  would be very surprised if you had not [TS]

  listen to almost all of the song explode [TS]

  episode about the commander thinks aloud [TS]

  you're right i have listened to a [TS]

  podcast because I listened to that one [TS]

  time [TS]

  Wow boom boom it's true I i was [TS]

  listening so here's here's my problem [TS]

  which is that this is the only problem I [TS]

  alright it's amazing that somebody that [TS]

  has only one problem and is able to [TS]

  identify that puts you that the US air [TS]

  it's a pretty rare my friend [TS]

  well as my mom likes to believe people [TS]

  are on earth living iterations of their [TS]

  former lives based on how they performed [TS]

  in earlier are you your mom believes [TS]

  that yes so so exciting to me as you [TS]

  progress through the through the ladder [TS]

  of enlightenment you are here on this [TS]

  planet living a life in order to learn [TS]

  things that you did not learn earlier [TS]

  but also with the presumption is that [TS]

  you are advancing so there are there are [TS]

  people who are here and they've they've [TS]

  been bumped up from being a dog or [TS]

  whatever there-there humans but they're [TS]

  really at the beginning of the ladder [TS]

  and then there are old souls who are at [TS]

  the you know they're really up there [TS]

  with very few things to learn left but [TS]

  the things they do have to learn boy [TS]

  they really i mean that's a whole [TS]

  lifetime just in the pursuit of learning [TS]

  this thing and then at a certain point [TS]

  you know youryour you reach Valhalla [TS]

  holy mackerel andy so the one thing that [TS]

  I have that's true about me let's say [TS]

  that is that I like to read reviews I [TS]

  like to read reviews more than I like to [TS]

  consume any of the things being reviewed [TS]

  is the bet you'd make this something [TS]

  separate from criticism in the second [TS]

  that in the in the classic kind of [TS]

  academic sense i like to read criticism [TS]

  your you your OneNote let me I'm sorry [TS]

  to interrupt you but day you studied it [TS]

  wasn't comparative literature it was the [TS]

  history of ideas now what was it [TS]

  that's right come the comparative [TS]

  history of ideas [TS]

  I don't like a conflict with a master's [TS]

  degree I mean it's a lot of like [TS]

  thinking about things in the app [TS]

  tracked you think about the thinking [TS]

  about things who metacognition mm and so [TS]

  reviews have always been a big part of [TS]

  my so there's criticism but there's also [TS]

  just the its younger its younger sibling [TS]

  the jolly little review which and review [TS]

  is a very uncomplicated child depending [TS]

  on how well it's written but i enjoy [TS]

  and-and-and-and mad magazine was an [TS]

  early a purveyor of this to me i never [TS]

  saw the movie Kramer vs Kramer but I [TS]

  remember mad magazines parody of kramer [TS]

  vs kramer very well humor was called oh [TS]

  boy [TS]

  slacker vs address for this episode of [TS]

  Roderick on the line is brought to you [TS]

  in part by Casper to learn more about [TS]

  Casper right now please visit Casper [TS]

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  casper mattresses so affordable prices [TS]

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  50 for a king I would get the King treat [TS]

  yourself and here's the thing for you to [TS]

  understand why Casper's out there why [TS]

  they exist you have to look at how the [TS]

  mattress racket works in the past the [TS]

  mattress industry wanted you go out [TS]

  there and pay high prices by going into [TS]

  the showrooms were some guy in a time is [TS]

  all sweaty once you lay on a bed in [TS]

  front of him like what's up with that [TS]

  nobody wants that don't do that don't do [TS]

  that don't talk the land that man's bed [TS]

  is disgusting revolutionising this [TS]

  industry revolutionising by cutting the [TS]

  cost of dealing [TS]

  three sellers and showrooms and they [TS]

  pass that savings on to you now they [TS]

  understand Casper these are some smart [TS]

  folks to understand how wackadoodle it [TS]

  sounds to buy a mattress on the internet [TS]

  when I first started I thought it was [TS]

  crazy but buying casper mattresses [TS]

  completely risk-free the offers free [TS]

  delivery free returns within 100 night [TS]

  period tried for 100 nights [TS]

  there's not going to be a sweaty guy [TS]

  with the tie in your room unless you've [TS]

  asked him there [TS]

  terms and conditions apply let's be [TS]

  honest not about four minutes in a [TS]

  showroom has no way to tell you if [TS]

  that's how you want to spend a third of [TS]

  your life you've got to try this out [TS]

  casper mattresses they're shipped to [TS]

  your house in a box you open them they [TS]

  breathe full of life and you got a [TS]

  wonderful place to sleep [TS]

  the best so here's the thing listeners [TS]

  rock on the line can get fifty dollars [TS]

  toward any mattress purchase by visiting [TS]

  Casper calm / supertrain and using the [TS]

  very very special offer code supertrain [TS]

  that's one word supertrain it's coming [TS]

  for you [TS]

  terms and conditions to apply man with [TS]

  red tie not included [TS]

  our thanks to Casper for all the great [TS]

  night's sleep and for supporting [TS]

  Roderick online black versus lap and and [TS]

  so you know very early on I realized [TS]

  that you could get the gist of something [TS]

  by reading the capsule review of it and [TS]

  that when used then saw the thing it [TS]

  either confirmed or exploded the review [TS]

  but that even didn't matter like it even [TS]

  a bad review i loved i love to read [TS]

  there was a there was a magazine [TS]

  published in the Pacific Northwest and [TS]

  by magazine I mean broadsheet like an [TS]

  alternative paper i don't know if you [TS]

  remember this but it was called snipe [TS]

  hunt and snipe hunt was just an entire [TS]

  newspaper like as big as the SF Weekly [TS]

  but all it was was capsule reviews of [TS]

  new records by by indie bands [TS]

  oh the entire thing and the reviews none [TS]

  of them were more than about three [TS]

  column enters and every single record [TS]

  was reviewed by Snider bonds and I never [TS]

  have never known [TS]

  like who the snipe on people were or how [TS]

  it was that this thing existed but it [TS]

  was just like a free paper that you [TS]

  would find lying around in bars [TS]

  and whenever I saw and it came out [TS]

  quarterly or something it wasn't [TS]

  something they could do every week but i [TS]

  would grab snipe hunt and I would just [TS]

  at first I would go through and i would [TS]

  read every one star review because [TS]

  that's what you really want you want [TS]

  every one star review first and then i [TS]

  would read every five star review and [TS]

  then I would you know God go through [TS]

  eventually i'd read every review because [TS]

  it was so great and I had no intention [TS]

  of listening to any of those albums not [TS]

  even a single one not not even the [TS]

  five-star five-star review you know what [TS]

  I get this i totally get this and so [TS]

  listening to you talk about podcasts is [TS]

  in a lot of ways better than listening [TS]

  to podcast yes sir [TS]

  who knows i'll never let me go song the [TS]

  song exploded that featured me I finally [TS]

  listen to after you know after being on [TS]

  the receiving end of 400 tweets that [TS]

  were like this is great i listened to it [TS]

  and it actually i actually was like huh [TS]

  this was a nice thing this song exploder [TS]

  that people praised was really nice it [TS]

  was nice to listen to it made me feel [TS]

  emotional about my own song because of [TS]

  the weather was craft that show that guy [TS]

  like he's so wonderful i can never not [TS]

  going to begin to try to pronounce his [TS]

  name but he prefers to go by reaching ok [TS]

  he he's very good and His that's it [TS]

  that's interesting you should mention [TS]

  that example because i often have no [TS]

  idea who the artist or the song is but [TS]

  like um like MGMT you know that one that [TS]

  big hit they had back when MGMT had the [TS]

  first big hit like the breaking down how [TS]

  that song it's that one song you know [TS]

  how it goes and but ask [TS]

  yeah it's the one and so you a whole [TS]

  blue [TS]

  oh but no that doesn't example the show [TS]

  were like even if i don't know or I'm [TS]

  not into the song I i really liked the [TS]

  format for how it doesn't it's very [TS]

  solemn maybe a little too solemn but the [TS]

  the way he puts that show together is [TS]

  terrific now that's an example of a very [TS]

  heavily edited show that i think is very [TS]

  well done [TS]

  he does a very good job [TS]

  I anybody's it doesn't hurt at all that [TS]

  it's one of your best known and [TS]

  certainly one of the most moving songs [TS]

  and the storytelling stage was just the [TS]

  way you tell it was great [TS]

  yeah yeah well it was nice that it was [TS]

  in front of a live audience but I so i [TS]

  have this I have this terrible [TS]

  experience the other day which was a [TS]

  recapitulation of a terrible series of [TS]

  experiences i've had over the decades [TS]

  questions follow-up did we cover the one [TS]

  thing that II you don't do well that you [TS]

  know that you like reviews better than [TS]

  things well 60 here we're about to work [TS]

  sorry I came to another room of it [TS]

  because this is what I have to learn in [TS]

  this life because my mother has never [TS]

  called me an old soul [TS]

  she'll talk about you know we'll talk [TS]

  about kids that she met his old souls [TS]

  but you know I stand there with my with [TS]

  my hands in my lap waiting for her to to [TS]

  bless me with old sold them and she [TS]

  never does she passes over me she passes [TS]

  over me like the angel of death because [TS]

  apparently there's some others blood [TS]

  splotch on my door but uh but it but [TS]

  opposite right she's not she's not [TS]

  preserving me I think she's throwing me [TS]

  back into the pond because he thinks I [TS]

  have other things to learn than what i [TS]

  think i have to learn in some subsequent [TS]

  life but uh but i don't know maybe at [TS]

  some point chill chill chill bump me up [TS]

  a few notches in her estimation but she [TS]

  has decided once again that she's [TS]

  clearing out her house my mom and I have [TS]

  very different ideas about how much [TS]

  stuff should be in a house and my [TS]

  version of how much stuff should be in [TS]

  houses as much stuff as the house can [TS]

  contain who and her version is the [TS]

  opposite right as little stuff as a [TS]

  house can contain if you walk into a [TS]

  room it should have a couch in it or it [TS]

  should have something to justify itself [TS]

  the room should announce what its [TS]

  purposes and it should justify itself by [TS]

  by its contents but as a few contents as [TS]

  possible [TS]

  and so she decided that she was going [TS]

  now to go into the basement which is a [TS]

  space that I think should be an archive [TS]

  and she was ready to get rid of stuff [TS]

  and so I i came into her house i sat [TS]

  down on the on the on the the knockdown [TS]

  chair that we've had since I was in high [TS]

  school [TS]

  hey what's up and she said oh I'm glad [TS]

  you're here and then she goes into the [TS]

  room and she plops a bin ab in from a [TS]

  bin store the plastic bin full of cds [TS]

  and she says I want you to go through [TS]

  this and I go boy [TS]

  what is this about and she said I'm [TS]

  getting rid of all these cds and I want [TS]

  you to go through and take the ones out [TS]

  that you want like Tom these cds belong [TS]

  in the basement that's not necessary [TS]

  that you go through these and if you are [TS]

  going to go through them you should go [TS]

  through them when you're 85 years old [TS]

  but alright i'll go through these cds [TS]

  and the bin just contain CDs that start [TS]

  with a and B they're not it's just like [TS]

  the beginning of this enormous [TS]

  collection of CDs cowboy and so I start [TS]

  going through them and I realized that I [TS]

  have a collection it contained within [TS]

  these cds of every album released [TS]

  between 1998 and 2007 like every single [TS]

  one that you get gates you you get down [TS]

  what's the word on comps but a [TS]

  pre-release you know [TS]

  yeah kinda stuff right and and some of [TS]

  them are some of them are very unique [TS]

  like the first band of horses album i [TS]

  have the demos of when the band was [TS]

  still called horses and ben bridwell [TS]

  said hey I want you to listen to the [TS]

  demo of my new band the songs that I'm [TS]

  working on and it is all the songs of [TS]

  the first band of horses record with him [TS]

  scatting over them it's the same exact [TS]

  melodies of the tunes mom but he did [TS]

  have the lyrics yet so it's like you [TS]

  know seven never dabbled a bit too [TS]

  badoo badoo know that song he had the [TS]

  layer he had at least 100 but you know [TS]

  there's a lot of scouting on it and he [TS]

  was a guy that was onion bear [TS]

  just about have a hanging about handing [TS]

  his best friend I mean people he knows [TS]

  this CD like with scouting on it because [TS]

  he was so proud of it already [TS]

  like I have documents that are better [TS]

  very very interesting of lots of bands [TS]

  that sent me early copies that I ever [TS]

  tell you about the time i was i was [TS]

  there i was i played a show in montreal [TS]

  and and these kids came up after the [TS]

  show and they handed me their their CD [TS]

  right right and then they became the [TS]

  band that wave the wave their flags and [TS]

  played the typewriter that's right they [TS]

  had drumsticks on the helmet that's [TS]

  right drumsticks on now [TS]

  ok some other ones were the thinking [TS]

  when they came back wah john they were [TS]

  yeah there were some of them are typical [TS]

  huh [TS]

  they spoke with the adorable from [TS]

  Jackson's they were young kids at the [TS]

  time and they were like with you know we [TS]

  want you to hear this we love your show [TS]

  we want you to hear this demo and then I [TS]

  became like a very big very big band so [TS]

  I have a lot of things like that in [TS]

  addition to every every release all of [TS]

  them you know cut out since them and my [TS]

  mom pops this bin down in front of me [TS]

  and I realize and then she starts [TS]

  talking about them talking about the [TS]

  record and I realized that she has [TS]

  listened to all of these albums she's [TS]

  gone through what [TS]

  listen to them put them into her itunes [TS]

  put the CD into her computer loaded into [TS]

  our itunes put the song on her ipod mini [TS]

  and you can listen to it at least once [TS]

  and then she wrote a review of it on a [TS]

  post-it note and stuck the review to the [TS]

  CD and the reviews are often like tunis [TS]

  yell p soft rock you think she was doing [TS]

  it to jog her memory or to just be have [TS]

  some closure with that particular item [TS]

  yeah i think it was a little ways that [TS]

  note for that's a good question i think [TS]

  ultimately it was for me because again [TS]

  my mom doesn't she [TS]

  they're the same consumptive habits that [TS]

  i do and she was trying to make it [TS]

  easier for me to listen to this music [TS]

  and if it was tuneless yell p soft rock [TS]

  she put that on their kind of to save me [TS]

  the trouble but the problem is that [TS]

  tuneless yell p soft rock maybe at would [TS]

  be something that I would think is good [TS]

  because she has different taste tonight [TS]

  sure and so but the primary difference [TS]

  is that i'm never gonna listen to those [TS]

  records i have listened to like four [TS]

  percent of the records that are in this [TS]

  bin and mostly it is the four percent of [TS]

  I mean it's bad it's almost that I've [TS]

  heard the songs of four percent of these [TS]

  bands because the ones that I've heard [TS]

  are ones that have toured with or seen [TS]

  live [TS]

  I i hardly ever put a CD in a machine to [TS]

  listen to it or listen to a man mp3 now [TS]

  so I'm going through this and I'm seeing [TS]

  that i actually had an enormous slice of [TS]

  the culture that I was actually a part [TS]

  of I had not just access but ownership [TS]

  of this this wall of cds or groom of CJ [TS]

  your witness to history [TS]

  I i have a possessor of history i have [TS]

  the amber the hair with amber eyes here [TS]

  and I did not consume it and now it [TS]

  feels like too late to consume it i'm [TS]

  playing cds and I'm like I remember this [TS]

  band [TS]

  this was the band you know this was this [TS]

  band from modesto that one of the [TS]

  members was you know formerly dated the [TS]

  younger brother of one of the members [TS]

  one of the later members of grandaddy or [TS]

  whatever this was the guy that that this [TS]

  was the CD of the bartender at the [TS]

  mercury lounge and I'm going through and [TS]

  I'm just like well the only ones of [TS]

  these that i want to keep frankly are [TS]

  like everyone so while you pull out on [TS]

  Sam Cooke record you like I could keep [TS]

  this sam cooke record [TS]

  you know the greatest hits of lynyrd [TS]

  skynyrd gotta get going to keep gold and [TS]

  platinum and i sent the rest into you [TS]

  know into the river because my moms [TS]

  cleaning it out i don't want to bring [TS]

  these things home to my house I know I'm [TS]

  never going to listen to them is really [TS]

  and I'm i stand amazed you pull this off [TS]

  baby you're amazed maybe i'm amazed with [TS]

  the way you got rid of those cds all the [TS]

  time [TS]

  well ends and so but I was sitting there [TS]

  a little bit covered in shame my 82 [TS]

  year-old mother had a better sense of [TS]

  what a much better sense of what indie [TS]

  rock in 2001 was then I but as far as [TS]

  the recorded output of it than I ever [TS]

  would and she listened to all the demos [TS]

  everything that came across my bow she [TS]

  took because she was looking she was [TS]

  curious and she was looking to develop [TS]

  her musical tastes and she wanted to [TS]

  know what was happening in the in the [TS]

  indie rock world that I inhabited and I [TS]

  like I have no context for i don't i [TS]

  don't know what she experienced in that [TS]

  and now right now she's super into Myles [TS]

  Kennedy who is in a band [TS]

  who's the singer of a band featuring at [TS]

  least two members of creed my and so she [TS]

  listen she puts myles kennedy on it's [TS]

  like she's eclectic she decided at one [TS]

  point that slash's snakepit was good in [TS]

  case remind our listeners roughly the [TS]

  age of your mom going to be specific [TS]

  she's 82 ok and and so then through that [TS]

  she said should I listen to Crede and I [TS]

  said no and she said I think I'm going [TS]

  to ignore your advice and she went and [TS]

  listened to accrete album and she said [TS]

  this guy sounds like an asshole but this [TS]

  music is great and I said that is the [TS]

  consensus of a lot of people some people [TS]

  can't get past the fact that this guy [TS]

  sounds like an asshole so much that they [TS]

  they can't even appreciate the like [TS]

  Duncan jump.john of the tunes and she [TS]

  was like that's you know I think the [TS]

  band is good and I think this asshole at [TS]

  least is this good singer and so she [TS]

  bought all the Creed records and she's [TS]

  walking around I'm sure right now she's [TS]

  out for a walk with her ipod mini [TS]

  listening to creed and so on the one [TS]

  hand she's listen to all indie rock [TS]

  music that was ever made but on the [TS]

  other hand that has delivered her unto [TS]

  Creed whereas I never listen to any of [TS]

  that music and so I am I'm absolved [TS]

  there listening to creat she's but she's [TS]

  having a more pure experience of the [TS]

  music as a as its own thing [TS]

  orderly orderly peaceful fair yet she [TS]

  has no sense of like this band belongs [TS]

  in this box [TS]

  these people are from this part of the [TS]

  country which is instead of like that [TS]

  this person told me to not touch the [TS]

  craft services or I know I know the real [TS]

  deal with this guy [TS]

  she'sshe's unburdened by your insider [TS]

  knowledge as a professional and as a [TS]

  kind of fan but like somebody in the [TS]

  industry she's unburdened by that burned [TS]

  by that and also unburdened by what what [TS]

  John Flansburg used to call trouble [TS]

  kicking indie rock which was when it [TS]

  comes on [TS]

  she doesn't even contextualize it within [TS]

  the history of rock [TS]

  she's just listens to every album more [TS]

  or less with it with a clean slate [TS]

  she puts it in and she's like I mean I [TS]

  don't even I don't even think she looks [TS]

  at the cover and sees how put a bird on [TS]

  it some of these bands are she doesn't [TS]

  go in prejudiced like a lot of the bands [TS]

  i'm flipping through the cds i watch the [TS]

  i was i'm watching just from the covers [TS]

  the rise and fall of put a bird on it [TS]

  culture and I see the proto the proto [TS]

  birds a lot of those records where the [TS]

  band would never in a million years put [TS]

  a picture of themselves anywhere on the [TS]

  record for any information about [TS]

  themselves at all because that would I [TS]

  don't know what say something about them [TS]

  but by not doing it they are very [TS]

  definitely saying something about them [TS]

  and i'm watching these cds go by and I [TS]

  see quiet is the new laughs [TS]

  would go up and down icy loud as the new [TS]

  quiet common go and so I have all this [TS]

  this historic context and in a way i'm [TS]

  i'm writing reviews of records that I've [TS]

  never heard just by just by watching [TS]

  them good just as just going through a [TS]

  bit of the A's and B's and then the next [TS]

  time I come to her how she plops down a [TS]

  bit of the season DS season these nuts [TS]

  which is a joke from this era right I [TS]

  never heard it with the sea season the [TS]

  season nuts i don't know i never knew [TS]

  what that meant it was something from a [TS]

  movie [TS]

  yeah it was a i was reminded the other [TS]

  day of icing did you ever get ice [TS]

  I don't know you can't give a high level [TS]

  on what I sing is there was a fad [TS]

  backstage at festivals for a very brief [TS]

  period somewhere back there in the [TS]

  mid-2000s where some beer that was [TS]

  called ice ice beer [TS]

  oh the ice beer era ice beer area [TS]

  getting but ice right and to be iced was [TS]

  a pretty one of these ice beers was [TS]

  particularly terrible and even maybe use [TS]

  a keystone know wasn't it wasn't that it [TS]

  was terrible because it was cheap [TS]

  it was terrible not maybe not only [TS]

  because it was cheap but because of it [TS]

  was just terrible [TS]

  I don't remember why because I don't [TS]

  drink beer okay but to be iced was to [TS]

  walk up to somebody and take a knee bend [TS]

  down and hold up this brand of ice beer [TS]

  which it's kind of like the ice bucket [TS]

  challenge now that a person has been [TS]

  down and handed you this ice beer you [TS]

  have to drink it you have to drink this [TS]

  terrible beer which everybody agreed was [TS]

  terrible and then you had to then then [TS]

  you were tagged you had to go ice [TS]

  somebody else I saw this go down [TS]

  I saw this go down many times backstage [TS]

  this and and then you know some whenever [TS]

  somebody would try to ice me I would ice [TS]

  them with my eyes [TS]

  they would go somebody this episode of [TS]

  Roderick on the line is brought to you [TS]

  by Squarespace the simplest way for [TS]

  anyone to create a beautiful landing [TS]

  page website or online store and start [TS]

  building your website today at [TS] use the offer code [TS]

  supertrain at checkout to get ten [TS]

  percent off your first purchase with [TS]

  easy-to-use tools and templates [TS]

  Squarespace helps you capture every [TS]

  detail of what drives you [TS]

  because if it's worth the effort it's [TS]

  worth sharing with the world [TS]

  Squarespace puts all the power you need [TS]

  in your hands and takes away the pain [TS]

  points stuff like worrying about hosting [TS]

  scaling or what to do if you get stuck [TS]

  with something with squarespace you can [TS]

  build a site that looks professionally [TS]

  designed regardless of skill level with [TS]

  no coding required Squarespace has [TS]

  state-of-the-art technology to power [TS]

  your site and to ensure security and [TS]

  stability they are trusted by millions [TS]

  of people and some of the most respected [TS]

  brands in the world including rock on [TS]

  the line [TS]

  I can't promise you that we respected in [TS]

  the world but I'm here to tell you if [TS]

  you're hearing the show right now which [TS]

  I think you probably are [TS]

  you're using Squarespace because that is [TS]

  where this is hosted that is where our [TS]

  site lives [TS]

  it's how we reach you the home listener [TS]

  Squarespace site templates are starting [TS]

  to look at they have responsive design [TS]

  that means your site will look great on [TS]

  any size or kind of dingus device [TS]

  whatever comes out they're gonna take [TS]

  care of it [TS]

  this is just getting started Squarespace [TS]

  has tons of awesome features they got 24 [TS]

  x seven support with live chat and email [TS]

  it square spaces commerce platform that [TS]

  lets you have a store to your [TS]

  Squarespace site and you can use their [TS]

  wonderful cover page functionality to [TS]

  build great-looking single-page websites [TS]

  and if you wanna stretch Squarespace [TS]

  even further [TS]

  you can totally do that by checking out [TS]

  their dev platform [TS]

  I think dev stands for developer but [TS]

  i'll have to check i'm pretty sure it is [TS]

  and this lets you as the dev dig into [TS]

  the code and tinker with your [TS]

  Squarespace site [TS]

  here's the thing you sign up for a year [TS]

  you also get a free domain name and that [TS]

  means you get to call your site whatever [TS]

  you want Squarespace doesn't care [TS]

  I mean they want you to be happy but you [TS]

  should get a free domain name do it [TS]

  Squarespace plan started just twelve [TS]

  dollars per month so start a trial today [TS]

  no credit card required and start [TS]

  building your website by going to [TS] and when you decide to [TS]

  sign up make sure to use the very [TS]

  special offer code supertrain and that [TS]

  will get you ten percent off your first [TS]

  purchase and show your support for [TS]

  econoline our thanks to squarespace for [TS]

  supporting Robert online and all the [TS]

  great shows you can go ahead but like [TS]

  what the hell is that was you know that [TS]

  was i SPECT bucket challenge level of [TS]

  everybody's doing this and now nobody's [TS]

  doing this because it was idiotic so I'm [TS]

  going on that's going to be using the DS [TS]

  everyone pass everyone that passes [TS]

  through my hand I feel a little bit of [TS]

  guilt at not having listened to and not [TS]

  having because some of them I'm sure our [TS]

  gems some of them would be those albums [TS]

  that are like wow this album really [TS]

  changed me that he still had posted [TS]

  notes at this point a some of them do [TS]

  some of the post-it notes have been and [TS]

  when I find a stack of my mom's post-it [TS]

  notes that are detached from the thing [TS]

  that they posted originally detached [TS]

  from the post those are also wonderful [TS]

  and you can make little notes and [TS]

  remarks about things [TS]

  yeah you could you make coffee table [TS]

  book just of her post it no saying you [TS]

  should because she's also funded because [TS]

  she likes to put things away but i would [TS]

  i would yell at her because she would [TS]

  put things away and I couldn't find them [TS]

  because my organization style is I know [TS]

  where things are over there already put [TS]

  away that one is put away on the coffee [TS]

  table underneath some other things that [TS]

  she thinks it's not put away enough it's [TS]

  not put away and if it has to go in the [TS]

  draw uh-huh [TS]

  and so she would put something away but [TS]

  then she would leave me a post-it note [TS]

  saying the thing that you're looking for [TS]

  that was under that stack of other [TS]

  things is now in the following draw in [TS]

  the third drawer to the left please a [TS]

  little little breadcrumb trail little [TS]

  breadcrumb trail and if I didn't [TS]

  immediately go and retrieve that thing [TS]

  and put it back where I wanted it then [TS]

  the note became completely out of [TS]

  context because because a lot of them [TS]

  were referring not specifically to the [TS]

  thing itself but the prior location of [TS]

  them of the thing and its present [TS]

  location and those locations change over [TS]

  time [TS]

  so becomes a treasure map to treasure is [TS]

  constantly in motion and I find those [TS]

  still all the time because a lot of [TS]

  those post-it notes I didn't want to [TS]

  throw away and so I put them in an [TS]

  interest in a stack of thing haha whoa [TS]

  yeah so I'm going through a stack of [TS]

  things i find a note about a prior stack [TS]

  of things that she's moved because that [TS]

  goes in the note collection [TS]

  yeah and I and I think do I keep this [TS]

  note because it's so that must drive her [TS]

  crazy she's hosted by our own petard [TS]

  she is or do i get rid of the note now [TS]

  that it's meaningless but if i start if [TS]

  I stopped and got rid of every [TS]

  meaningless note like how would I how [TS]

  would I recognize my own path [TS]

  well I mean what what we mean by [TS]

  meaningless sure she took the time to to [TS]

  believe me these insensible notes that [TS]

  are describing / need to move my things [TS]

  into drawers and i would love I would [TS]

  love a record of that I don't blame you [TS]

  i mean i keep I keep garbage like that I [TS]

  keep like my wife must mix our daughters [TS]

  lunches now but in the time when I was [TS]

  making lunches a lot i would always have [TS]

  taken index card i put a sticker on it [TS]

  and then make some kind of a remark and [TS]

  I would always do and I say about the [TS]

  lunch [TS]

  well it was usually like a Marvel [TS]

  character sticker and I try to say [TS]

  something clever that was really just a [TS]

  dad joke you know be thorne would say [TS]

  enjoy I lunch or whatever and just [TS]

  really stupid stuff but I save those and [TS]

  i'm glad i am glad i did that for me [TS]

  it's not for her they're not [TS]

  particularly clever right well she was [TS]

  like four years old and couldn't read ya [TS]

  better policy really good reader no well [TS]

  I imagine knowing she's just really [TS]

  really good reader now I think being a [TS]

  good reader is better than being good [TS]

  sports oh please [TS]

  but not everybody shares that feeling hi [TS]

  now some people think that being a good [TS]

  sports is better is it more important [TS]

  more important to be smarter kind or is [TS]

  that is that a nonequivalent an unfair [TS]

  comparison [TS]

  well that could put that in easier ways [TS]

  for you actually say it could say is it [TS]

  better to test well or be a good person [TS]

  Anjali deliberately leaving a little bit [TS]

  wavy gravy they were talking about this [TS]

  on the national public radio today and [TS]

  I'm thinking about it a little bit i [TS]

  mean do we need to we need more kindness [TS]

  I feel that we have we have a little bit [TS]

  of kindness over our kindness overload [TS]

  right now because it's not politeness [TS]

  this is kindness kindness [TS]

  well yeah because the definition of [TS]

  kindness is moving target [TS]

  well see here's the thing they talked [TS]

  about on the National Public Radio and I [TS]

  thought this was a nice distinction a [TS]

  bully you take a bully you take a lien [TS]

  on scut Farkus but let's say taking [TS]

  Eddie Haskell think of all mrs. cleaver [TS]

  man ran like a bully can be extremely [TS]

  polite but is not very kind [TS]

  well sure but you can you can be the you [TS]

  can be kind you can attempt to be kind [TS]

  and what what ends up happening with a [TS]

  lot of kindness is that you are [TS]

  presuming to know what other people need [TS]

  your presuming to know what other people [TS]

  need and what what they want or what to [TS]

  expect even or what they expect [TS]

  and so I see this a lot in our in our [TS]

  current culture people are presuming to [TS]

  act on behalf of other people and [TS]

  generally motivated by a desire to be [TS]

  kind but but what ends up happening is [TS]

  that they are imposing their worldview [TS]

  they're taking other people's agency in [TS]

  a lot of ways are there they are [TS]

  presuming that what the person needs is [TS]

  them an unrelated person behaving a [TS]

  certain way and real kindness which is [TS]

  just going I mean going through life and [TS]

  acting kindly is a thing that doesn't [TS]

  need to be talked about on NPR it's not [TS]

  a thing that we need to write think [TS]

  pieces about how we need more [TS]

  it because it's the things piece [TS]

  inspires people who are looking for [TS]

  accolades who are imagining that they [TS]

  are saintly who are trying to trying to [TS]

  change the course of the culture in ways [TS]

  they think the culture need needs to be [TS]

  changed and kindness is a thing that you [TS]

  i think some people have and some people [TS]

  are forced to have huh [TS]

  but and the people that have it are our [TS]

  kind and and and I and I think a lot of [TS]

  it really as a parent now I see things [TS]

  like that being present innately in [TS]

  children where they haven't been taught [TS]

  it there are there are children i met [TS]

  when they were one and a half years old [TS]

  that we're already intrinsically kind [TS]

  and there were children that were awful [TS]

  and it wasn't a thing that their parents [TS]

  had any effect on it was just like Oh [TS]

  apparently God thought the world needed [TS]

  another unkind person and so he made [TS]

  this one check and then he needed some [TS]

  more kind people and so he made these [TS]

  but but ice i see people assuming that [TS]

  they're kinda assuming that their [TS]

  kindness is needed and a lot of them are [TS]

  any Haskell's and they decided it could [TS]

  be it can be a kind of [TS]

  passive-aggressive or even aggressive [TS]

  move [TS]

  yeah because then you get to put your [TS]

  frame on how this situation is happening [TS]

  yeah when you're when you're under the [TS]

  guise of being kind of being in or being [TS]

  helpful [TS]

  yeah right that people i mean i think i [TS]

  think one of the most common problems [TS]

  that people interacting with one another [TS]

  is that um and and again that there are [TS]

  there are lots and lots of extra verts [TS]

  in the world who aren't thinking this [TS]

  much about interaction they're just [TS]

  being and when you talk to a lot of [TS]

  introverted people who / think their [TS]

  interactions they will say I don't trust [TS]

  extroverts because they aren't neurotic [TS]

  and neuroses seems like a good indicator [TS]

  of intelligence and without Charlotte at [TS]

  least thoughts on this platform this but [TS]

  I'm you know a thoughtful in a sense if [TS]

  you think about things and thinking [TS]

  about things is how we describe [TS]

  intelligence you know like that yeah I [TS]

  mean you know what i mean like i do but [TS]

  i think there's a difference between [TS]

  book intelligence and emotional [TS]

  intelligence and i think i'm not [TS]

  advocating for yes thought I'm just [TS]

  joking right [TS]

  um thinking a lot about introversion [TS]

  these days well yeah I mean because I [TS]

  because I'm i have self-identified as [TS]

  one and so introverts now talk to me [TS]

  about it but uh but what I what I see [TS]

  people doing is they are they're [TS]

  imagining that their behavior is [TS]

  important and whether or not they are [TS]

  racist or not a racist is important in [TS]

  the world and what they're doing a lot [TS]

  of cases is leaping ahead of the present [TS]

  predicting the future and I'm talking [TS]

  about even in immediate terms like [TS]

  predicting the future of this engagement [TS]

  15 minutes from now imagining in that [TS]

  future there the other person the person [TS]

  they're talking to and trying to move [TS]

  the experience move the interaction in [TS]

  the direction of what they think the [TS]

  future should be rather than letting the [TS]

  interaction unfold and so they are you [TS]

  know they're trying to behave in a [TS]

  certain way to produce a certain outcome [TS]

  which they have arrived at and are now [TS]

  trying to accomplish as a form of being [TS]

  kind to this person or sensitive to them [TS]

  and their needs but they're also not be [TS]

  a very good improviser they're not [TS]

  improvising and they're not and what [TS]

  they're ultimately doing is trying to [TS]

  take control and trying to and they am [TS]

  and I think in this process they imagine [TS]

  that they know better what the other [TS]

  person needs then the person themselves [TS]

  is it possible they are not aware [TS]

  they're doing that its absolute I think [TS]

  they're in most cases they're not and i [TS]

  think it derives a lot of time from [TS]

  teachers and parents having listened to [TS]

  an NPR piece about how we need more [TS]

  kindness and then they interact with [TS]

  this [TS]

  it's light mischaracterization but allow [TS]

  it's you know like the think piece on [TS]

  how we need more kindness it was about [TS]

  it was about ruminating on nevermind go [TS]

  ahead but there's a lot of this in the [TS]

  culture their billboards now that's a [TS]

  like we need to combat bullying and i [TS]

  think that at one level and we you and I [TS]

  have talked about this and in terms of [TS]

  your own daughters experience in school [TS]

  like yes we need to combat bullying [TS]

  I you know it in in the sense that we [TS]

  don't tolerate bullying but what ends up [TS]

  happening is that we're leaping ahead [TS]

  and and stand addressing students who [TS]

  aren't bullies addressing the the wide [TS]

  spectrum of people with the goal of [TS]

  eradicated bullying which is bullying is [TS]

  not a single thing it's not a it's not a [TS]

  certain kind of behavior like it's a [TS]

  mentality it's a it's something [TS]

  intrinsic to humans it some kids and [TS]

  again I've seen two-year-olds that were [TS]

  just born bullies but in this in this [TS]

  desire to not have bullying affect the [TS]

  sensitive kids we're making these [TS]

  blanket assumptions about how people [TS]

  interact trying to head them off at the [TS]

  pass and so then we create kids who are [TS]

  self editing editing their friends you [TS]

  know vigilant over vigilant over things [TS]

  that could potentially be bullying and [TS]

  creating not necessarily a culture of [TS]

  kindness but a culture of [TS]

  hyper-vigilance about other people's [TS]

  behavior and about potential outcomes of [TS]

  interactions that aren't really even [TS]

  sewn in the interaction they're not [TS]

  they're not present there there only [TS]

  present in the prognostication and so [TS]

  you know part part part of it is from [TS]

  hearing you [TS]

  part of it is that in our drive to [TS]

  eradicate this thing we all agree is bad [TS]

  we end up artificially rerouting a lot [TS]

  of how people operate with each other is [TS]

  that that's part of it [TS]

  well yeah because I mean you're charging [TS]

  young kids with the authority to know to [TS]

  look at it in you to look at an [TS]

  interaction between people and and and [TS]

  try and headed off identify behaviors as [TS]

  as certain kind of behavior behaviors [TS]

  that are in Psychological silo and [TS]

  you're teaching kids and I missing [TS]

  whether I agree disagree but I just [TS]

  clarify its also it also seems like be [TS]

  careful with that kind of stuff because [TS]

  you're creating a new kind of pattern [TS]

  matching machine [TS]

  yeah right i mean you're you're [TS]

  encouraging your ears you're encouraging [TS]

  people for whether it's a good better [TS]

  whatever reason or outcome that you're [TS]

  looking for you are in the same way that [TS]

  like high-stakes testing makes kids [TS]

  won't have to be good at tests in this [TS]

  case you're encouraging a certain kind [TS]

  of pattern matching that on somebody [TS]

  using equipment that maybe isn't [TS]

  completely developed yet right or and it [TS]

  was even capable of being developed like [TS]

  my personal version of it dating back to [TS]

  the nineteen seventies and eighties was [TS]

  that I was raised in an environment [TS]

  where i heard all the time about how men [TS]

  wanted sex and pretended to understand [TS]

  what love was in order to accomplish sex [TS]

  and women wanted love and they pretended [TS]

  to enjoy sex in order to get love and it [TS]

  was a completely simple reduction of the [TS]

  truth in order to exploit [TS]

  truth in order to exploit [TS]

  Ain a perception of the gulf between men [TS]

  and women that was a product of the kind [TS]

  of revolution both sexual revolution and [TS]

  feminist revolution of the late sixties [TS]

  early seventies and so that was [TS]

  transmitted to me as a young person in [TS]

  the seventies and transmitted to me in [TS]

  the hope that I would not be this type [TS]

  of person that if we could reach a [TS]

  generation of young men and say this is [TS]

  the this is the this is our perception [TS]

  of the of the conditions currently and [TS]

  if you know about it and you are and [TS]

  it's explained to you and it's explained [TS]

  to you that this isn't something we want [TS]

  to recapitulate then we can interrupt [TS]

  this long-standing resort patriarchal [TS]

  pattern and what it produced in me was [TS]

  when i was sitting in interacting with [TS]

  girls in my in my early days i was [TS]

  trying to head this tendency off at the [TS]

  pass and say listen I don't just want [TS]

  sex from you i do want to experience [TS]

  love and I want to be there for you in [TS]

  the ways that you want me to be there [TS]

  and in a lot of cases that was just [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  it wasn't a description of what was [TS]

  happening at all it was the best thing [TS]

  that my parents generation could come up [TS]

  with to describe what they proceed but [TS]

  in a lot of instances the girls i was [TS]

  interacting with as a teenager [TS]

  we're saying what no I just want to [TS]

  experiment with sex [TS]

  I'm excited about it and I just want to [TS]

  play in that space and I was like I know [TS]

  you think that but this is part of our [TS]

  indoctrination and what we really need [TS]

  to do is and by that time a lot of those [TS]

  people had already gotten up out of the [TS]

  chair and we're going to somebody else [TS]

  to talk to them and hope hope that next [TS]

  person might just give them some sex [TS]

  and for many many years my own [TS]

  development was inhibited by what by the [TS]

  job that I'd been given by adult humans [TS]

  who thought they understood what human [TS]

  interactions were and thought they had a [TS]

  formula and all we needed to do is teach [TS]

  our kids and i created more problems [TS]

  both in my own life and for other people [TS]

  because i wasn't leaping ahead in our [TS]

  interaction to a time when the girl was [TS]

  sitting sobbing because all I wanted was [TS]

  sex you know like I imagined that I knew [TS]

  better than they did what they wanted in [TS]

  the future and so I see in our culture [TS]

  now another iteration of that we can [TS]

  never know in our own time [TS]

  how ridiculous we're going to look to [TS]

  people 30 years from now and our [TS]

  understanding of what we need and what [TS]

  and how much we can intervene is going [TS]

  to seem ludicrous but we're doing it so [TS]

  actively and so aggressively like [TS]

  getting into kids minds trying to create [TS]

  a trying to engineer a future that we [TS]

  imagine day is better for them and and [TS]

  those kids are just like okay I guess [TS]

  you know like the contemporary versions [TS]

  of it are are something else we we think [TS]

  we've unlocked the the secret and you [TS]

  know where within my own interactions [TS]

  with my kid I try to just sit in the [TS]

  chair and listen to what she says [TS]

  there's a kid in school right now that [TS]

  hits her and every day she comes home [TS]

  and says well you know Billy hit me [TS]

  again and we're sitting here as a family [TS]

  going is the teacher not watching this [TS]

  is is he is she's saying that he's [TS]

  hitting her and he's hitting everybody [TS]

  and it's a it's I mean what she doesn't [TS]

  seem super traumatized by she just [TS]

  doesn't want to play with Billy doesn't [TS]

  understand why is hitting her [TS]

  and so today we're writing a letter to [TS]

  the teacher saying is this happening [TS]

  would you watch this would you see what [TS]

  this is [TS]

  uh-huh but yesterday I got a letter from [TS]

  two parents in the school who in my [TS]

  daughter's class and the teacher this is [TS]

  a kindergarten class the teacher has [TS]

  been assigning homework and the home and [TS]

  you bring it home and the homework is [TS]

  trace the trace the letters find the [TS]

  hippopotamus learn the following 15 [TS]

  words by sight [TS]

  you know kindergarten uh-huh and my [TS]

  daughter loves it she just it's work [TS]

  that she loves to do but there was a [TS]

  letter sent around to everybody in the [TS]

  class by two parents who obviously work [TS]

  in high-level tech world and the letter [TS]

  was 40 paragraphs long saying we don't [TS]

  think it's right that the kids be [TS]

  assigned homework because of the [TS]

  following series that we've read about [TS]

  childhood development and the nessus [TS]

  necessity of play and the danger of of [TS]

  high expectations and so forth then they [TS]

  will they ran down 40 different theories [TS]

  of childhood development that they had [TS]

  read and a big part of the letter i [TS]

  think was to illustrate all the things [TS]

  that they read and how it how and it and [TS]

  and and really wasn't communicated was [TS]

  we are a high-achieving parents and we [TS]

  want our kids to be high achievers and [TS]

  the way to get a kid to be a high [TS]

  achievers to not stress high achievement [TS]

  in them but to let them just learn and [TS]

  love and play and they were trying to [TS]

  enlist all the other parents in [TS]

  confronting the teacher about the [TS]

  homework and and applying this like huge [TS]

  file folder of child development [TS]

  theories on a kindergarten teacher who's [TS]

  been doing it for 20 years and they [TS]

  wanted us all to sign onto this letter [TS]

  and you know we read the letter and it [TS]

  was like well gee our daughter really [TS]

  love doing that homework like didn't she [TS]

  also loves to play uh I don't feel [TS]

  comfortable signing onto letter i'm not [TS]

  opposed to you know write write whatever [TS]

  you want [TS]

  so yeah but I am I guess I'm I'm a [TS]

  little bit more like it if my kid was [TS]

  going around hitting people and i found [TS]

  out about it I'd sit her down and have a [TS]

  talk with her that we don't hit people [TS]

  but i don't think i would write a letter [TS]

  to all the other parents about like you [TS]

  know the theory of what to do when a [TS]

  child had some hits another child to get [TS]

  started you'll start show [TS]

  yeah we should get that we should get [TS]

  the show going [TS]

  what's going on uh yeah super-good [TS]

  Merlin thanks for being on the podcast [TS]

  this is terrific let me start by telling [TS]

  you a little about myself [TS]

  do you have a outline of how you like [TS]

  this to go that's terrific [TS]

  my background is in content and in [TS]

  helping brands to express their brand [TS]

  eNOS with regard to content both earn [TS]

  content owner and content viral content [TS]

  are you going to be talking long enough [TS]

  that I can take a bite of this sandwich [TS]

  what you're talking about which I'll [TS]

  push the movie that's super but I don't [TS]

  know man I too much for me to get into [TS]

  button [TS]

  MLG I'm gonna let you have this one boy [TS]

  I got my thoughts I got thoughts buddy I [TS]

  know you do I know you do [TS]

  I'll have i'll give you thought that we [TS]

  may not argue about and now this without [TS]

  experiment it's not even thought [TS]

  technology i'll just i'll say this [TS]

  snarkily and then walk away i like this [TS]

  stink bomb and walk away [TS]

  glad you like homework boy there's more [TS]

  coming [TS]

  well i don't personally hope you love it [TS]

  everybody were a lot of tier Chris I [TS]

  don't like homework as evidenced by the [TS]

  fact that i never did any of my own [TS]

  homework makes it very difficult this is [TS]

  a whole nother show as they say but yeah [TS]

  my homework that's a hell of a thing but [TS]

  you know it has everything I do think is [TS]

  you you you said something I agreed [TS]

  within their which is the part about [TS]

  outside it's really fucking hard to be a [TS]

  teacher and two and to be a teacher who [TS]

  has been through this and has this is [TS]

  this is not their first day as you like [TS]

  to say they've dealt with a lot of kids [TS]

  that were not just your special angel [TS]

  but they have they know from kids like [TS]

  they have done this for years and i [TS]

  always try to bear that in mind whenever [TS]

  i'm about to insert whatever about to go [TS]

  in email link to something i saw on the [TS]

  Atlantic I'm very circumspect about [TS]

  doing that because i think it's [TS]

  something people do and I bet it's not [TS]

  as useful as it feels and it for [TS]

  situations like that i am not saying I'm [TS]

  good at this but something I try to do [TS]

  if there's something I don't understand [TS]

  or something I and you know let's be [TS]

  honest a lot of times things that we [TS]

  don't like are ultimately things we [TS]

  don't understand especially when it [TS]

  involves something like it's cool [TS]

  because we don't know that place runs [TS]

  but we should have our records about how [TS]

  it works but if there's something I [TS]

  don't understand i have i have learned [TS]

  to do a couple things and this doesn't [TS]

  happen that often but let's let's say [TS]

  it's a concern or it's a record or [TS]

  something but one thing I do is I go in [TS]

  person like if I'm back to come and get [TS]

  every day so one nice thing is to go in [TS]

  person and then to ask a question and a [TS]

  question that you you think you can [TS]

  trick somebody in answering a certain [TS]

  way leading but you go and yet you ask a [TS]

  question like I go to the after school [TS]

  program and I say hey you know [TS]

  um is it you think there's any way that [TS]

  you could let us know if you guys are [TS]

  going to be at the playground till five [TS]

  just because that kind of throws us off [TS]

  in terms of what we're doing if we gotta [TS]

  go you know that kind of thing and [TS]

  they'll say well you know we thought [TS]

  about doing that something you want to [TS]

  say you know just if it's not hard but [TS]

  also you know I want to understand why [TS]

  you do it the way you do and that I I [TS]

  hope I don't sound like a dick when I do [TS]

  that because I actually i'm really [TS]

  trying to seek to learn and when [TS]

  homework becomes hours and hours of [TS]

  tears and night we went to the teacher [TS]

  and we asked about it and we got a lot [TS]

  of illuminating information we would not [TS]

  have gotten just from our daughter and [TS]

  from the handout but every time i do [TS]

  that i don't know if I'm why do they [TS]

  give tier inducing amounts of homework [TS]

  um I think there are many reasons so [TS]

  just as the one thought which is just [TS]

  that I don't know if that increment [TS]

  improves their relationship with me but [TS]

  I definitely feel like improve my [TS]

  relationship with them when I go in and [TS]

  I talked to the teacher and I say like I [TS]

  don't understand what's going on here [TS]

  let me just give you that going your [TS]

  doctor and like telling them what kind [TS]

  of cancer you have the fire like you [TS]

  don't have cancer you just need to walk [TS]

  like no no I'm pretty sure I have this [TS]

  thing I printed out from WebMD and I i [TS]

  do i'm not sayin I'm great at it and I [TS]

  certainly I but I genuinely like the [TS]

  people at this school and when I go [TS]

  there I do try to make it an opportunity [TS]

  to like you know first listen and find [TS]

  out what's going on before you make a [TS]

  lot of assumptions about one thing [TS]

  you're doing this but that's something I [TS]

  struggle god dammit why you're always [TS]

  fucking homework every night and then [TS]

  it's useful sometimes to go and ask and [TS]

  then to say hey just see you know like [TS]

  we're having a lot of drama about this [TS]

  homework and I want to understand what [TS]

  part of this is important to do well [TS]

  right thoroughly correct because the [TS]

  front do every stitch of homework [TS]

  perfectly my child will no longer have [TS]

  any time between Stockholm at that time [TS]

  this is my question to you he has [TS]

  somebody who's who's ahead of me in the [TS]

  parenting game let's just say you're [TS]

  down you're further down the line your [TS]

  further up the ladder right you only [TS]

  have certain number of lives parenting [TS]

  lives you need to live with to live [TS]

  yeah right and I have a lot more [TS]

  parenting lives to live but what are the [TS]

  consequences of not doing [TS]

  the homework that is upsetting only [TS]

  doing the homework that is interesting [TS]

  when you're in third grade [TS]

  are they not going to advance you are [TS]

  you going to be in trouble [TS]

  well I mean unless it's like like so [TS]

  many things in life I imagine it's the [TS]

  parents concerned anxiety that gets [TS]

  passed on to the kid liked for the kid [TS]

  is just a sheet in a folder and a [TS]

  request for us it's like it's a lot of [TS]

  hand-wringing and so it should this you [TS]

  are we focusing on filling up this whole [TS]

  area where all the lines are production [TS]

  is that is that really important like [TS]

  does it need to be this long longer does [TS]

  the spelling need to be right should we [TS]

  be worrying about the grammar do you [TS]

  have to color in the picture as well as [TS]

  drawn now you're asking you're saying [TS]

  yourself that's insane i could do that [TS]

  in five minutes [TS]

  I know believe me I know it's it's [TS]

  something i could do I could do that [TS]

  homework in two minutes but I'm years [TS]

  old and this is and so it does become [TS]

  gets to be thursday night you get the [TS]

  homework assignments due on Friday [TS]

  morning and we have found out from asked [TS]

  talking to other folks we are not the [TS]

  only ones that have had some very very [TS]

  stressful wednesdays and thursdays why [TS]

  isn't there what is it for [TS]

  I'm not entirely sure and sometimes it [TS]

  seems like this is not a reflection of [TS]

  our score the teachers of the staff but [TS]

  this is just from time to time it's it [TS]

  really feels like busywork it's [TS]

  something somebody got off the internet [TS]

  and they printed out and then xerox [TS]

  something together them to assign [TS]

  sometimes it has typographical errors [TS]

  drives me crazy and the spellings and [TS]

  sometimes it has incredibly unclear [TS]

  instructions that if we're blind of what [TS]

  they have really wish my kids would get [TS]

  is like how important history the [TS]

  instructions because if you don't read [TS]

  the instructions you you know just read [TS]

  the instructions because you can read [TS]

  the manual i do but here's the thing [TS]

  there's three sentences that describe [TS]

  what you're supposed to do here if you [TS]

  just glance the headline that says story [TS]

  about your summer you might really miss [TS]

  out on what they're looking for here so [TS]

  this i think this does become a good [TS]

  testing skill to so you're describing my [TS]

  entire life right [TS]

  I never read the manual I always open [TS]

  the box pull the thing out plugged it in [TS]

  realize that there were more parts [TS]

  you know another bag so with the thing [TS]

  plugged in tried to install the other [TS]

  parts as I saw fit and then it commenced [TS]

  using the device often without really [TS]

  understanding how it worked until it [TS]

  broke [TS]

  I never the instructions I'm i mostly [TS]

  like that with lots of things but i [TS]

  guess i'm trying to get here is this is [TS]

  all this is not just I think a sound [TS]

  piece of advice I think it's a great [TS]

  trick it's a great i mean you will learn [TS]

  this in testing like you will learn how [TS]

  the people who make those tests think by [TS]

  reading those instructions oh I'm i'm [TS]

  not arguing for a second you're correct [TS]

  just that i have never done okay [TS]

  like I'm not advocating for not reading [TS]

  but here so so then you get into a [TS]

  situation where like shiat after school [TS]

  she's done whole week's homework it's [TS]

  all done she's very excited because now [TS]

  the homework is done she knows that we [TS]

  won't make this face outer layer and so [TS]

  she says it to us but she didn't do it [TS]

  right [TS]

  yeah right and you ever try to tell your [TS]

  kid to go do a different picture because [TS]

  they do it wrong or you've got to go [TS]

  like this thing you painfully pulled out [TS]

  of yourself with it as a young writing [TS]

  person like no no you gotta go redo that [TS]

  because you're supposed to be doing it [TS]

  this way I'm this is this is back to the [TS]

  at the thing that I that I wonder I [TS]

  wonder a lot about which is um with [TS]

  their there there's so much that we do [TS]

  when talking about kids that presumes [TS]

  that every child is a pre-order every [TS]

  every child is is toddler assa and we're [TS]

  still doing that because that was a [TS]

  fashion when we at some point in our [TS]

  lives and seen it seems the fairest way [TS]

  to proceed [TS]

  yeah that's right every child is [TS]

  tabularasa and so if we treat them all [TS]

  equally when they're when they're young [TS]

  we produce uniform outcomes and knowing [TS]

  your daughter just a little bit that I [TS]

  do it's possible that she's like me born [TS]

  to not read the instructions now and [TS]

  maybe there's a way that you can teach [TS]

  her to read them there was no way to [TS]

  teach me to read the instructions my mom [TS]

  reads the instructions compulsively she [TS]

  tried every method to get me to read the [TS]

  instructions and it just wasn't possible [TS]

  because that's not how I was made and [TS]

  every Sunday nice from the time i was in [TS]

  fifth grade until the presence every [TS]

  Sunday night I was consumed by fear and [TS]

  self-loathing that I had not finished [TS]

  the homework [TS]

  yeah so I really like that in that case [TS]

  something like the report that steal my [TS]

  name [TS]

  absolutely and I remember sit because we [TS]

  skied during the winter right so [TS]

  saturdays and sundays we were scheme and [TS]

  friday nights and friday night i would [TS]

  be skiing night scheme which is the best [TS]

  kind of scheme and I'd be thinking what [TS]

  I've got to do that homework at some [TS]

  point this weekend and then friday night [TS]

  we would have hot chocolate and we would [TS]

  sit around the fire and I wouldn't do [TS]

  the homework and then all day saturday [TS]

  i'd be skiing and thinking mostly [TS]

  thinking on the chairlift right because [TS]

  when you're skiing you're not thinking [TS]

  about your homework you're thinking [TS]

  about not falling but then you have all [TS]

  this time to sit on the chair left and I [TS]

  never understood what people who didn't [TS]

  think did on the chairlift because it's [TS]

  a long period of just sitting and [TS]

  waiting in the cold and that was time [TS]

  that I spent thinking hard about things [TS]

  and I would sit all day Saturday and say [TS]

  you've really got to finish that [TS]

  homework but then there would be relief [TS]

  where the other voices would say well [TS]

  it's only saturday you're fine [TS]

  like you'll get it done it will happen [TS]

  magically at some point saturday night [TS]

  we would party sunday night or sunday [TS]

  day its fine there's still time and then [TS]

  sunday night skiing every week it would [TS]

  descend upon me [TS]

  yeah i'm going to get down I'm gonna [TS]

  take off my skis I'm gonna take off my [TS]

  boots we're going to get in the car [TS]

  we're going to drive home by which point [TS]

  it will be seven o'clock and then from [TS]

  seven o'clock until whenever I collapse [TS]

  i have to write a 10-page paper on the [TS]

  life of a sell it and i don't know and i [TS]

  have never read any I don't know [TS]

  anything about the life of a cell it's [TS]

  not something I can wait and that [TS]

  feeling of not having it done had such a [TS]

  much larger effect on my life as an [TS]

  adult [TS]

  much larger effect on my childhood and [TS]

  the quality of my childhood then it ever [TS]

  had an effect on teaching me the value [TS]

  of working you know getting the work [TS]

  done early of being diligent of you know [TS]

  like I think I had said something it [TS]

  didn't have the desired effect [TS]

  it did not I was made to be what I am [TS]

  and all of those things including like [TS]

  here's your homework assignment you're [TS]

  not going to get it done that's proved [TS]

  and although you're an independent [TS]

  reader us a person that really thrives [TS]

  on self-education your enormously [TS]

  curious you already at the age of ten [TS]

  years old have this like weird weirdly [TS]

  specific knowledge of a general [TS]

  knowledge about a ton of things somehow [TS]

  it's very important to us as adults that [TS]

  you write a 10-page paper on the life of [TS]

  the cell and if you don't you're going [TS]

  to get an F and all the other work [TS]

  you've done this year is negated all the [TS]

  reading you've done not only negated but [TS]

  turned into a shame and garbage in your [TS]

  heart when it becomes a kind of [TS]

  emotional debt [TS]

  we're like that that accumulates that [TS]

  really does accumulate over time all [TS]

  those terrible feelings on a sunday [TS]

  night and I was very much the same way [TS]

  they did [TS]

  oh absolutely I sunday night i hated [TS]

  sunday nights for us it was the worst [TS]

  and you know it's but I'm trying to I'm [TS]

  trying to figure it out because I mean I [TS]

  know that's very important to learn [TS]

  there are times we have to do things [TS]

  that we don't want to do it just it's [TS]

  very hard for me to really get my back [TS]

  into it when I think it's bullshit [TS]

  that's that's the difficult part is like [TS]

  I i dunno my kid read three books [TS]

  yesterday like just for fun I mean like [TS]

  you know baby-sitters Club books but [TS]

  like she just reads constantly and [TS]

  quickly and she retains and like there [TS]

  is this dad part in my heart breaks a [TS]

  little bit when I I can feel myself [TS]

  saying something to her that I i know is [TS]

  the kind of thing that made me hate [TS]

  writing when I was little because he did [TS]

  it wrong [TS]

  right because you didn't use the index [TS]

  cards and then make the outline and my [TS]

  paragraph essay and that's never how my [TS]

  brain work it wasn't and I [TS]

  wasn't I didn't even I didn't like [TS]

  writing at all but it didn't i didn't [TS]

  know I was really little but like I was [TS]

  more excited to like make the book out [TS]

  of like wallpaper and stuff like that [TS]

  but those kinds of projects but I came [TS]

  to like it but I also realized that [TS]

  people are trying they were trying [TS]

  really hard to fill this empty vessel [TS]

  that was me with some kind of really [TS]

  useful information by showing me the [TS]

  right way to do this but travelers [TS]

  clarity but you're absolutely right i [TS]

  was probably have full it's just not [TS]

  what I needed to be full of for them and [TS]

  it made me neurotic it made me anxious [TS]

  and anxiety that I still have today and [TS]

  it made me feel a little bit shameful [TS]

  because i knew that i was a smart kid [TS]

  that was not performing as well as I [TS]

  should and i knew i was supposed to feel [TS]

  bad about that and that was the point [TS]

  yeah I always assume that when you [TS]

  talked about index cards and you use and [TS]

  you can you use them in the early [TS]

  versions of our shows that there was [TS]

  something deeply ironic about it that [TS]

  your use of index cards was was [TS]

  connected to a failure to have used [TS]

  index cards when it was required of you [TS]

  in in tenth grade I never thought of it [TS]

  that way but it could be but also [TS]

  remember the use of index cards and this [TS]

  is supporting your point was really [TS]

  grinding you have a box with your index [TS]

  cards and you go and you have to write [TS]

  your is going to be the notes on this [TS]

  book and you have to write the title [TS]

  this way and you have to write the [TS]

  authors note this way and then I'm going [TS]

  to do this on the back in this way and [TS]

  the the shit that you're doing to to [TS]

  like basically allows your brain now [TS]

  creative stuff to get all the stuff out [TS]

  somewhere is the most turgid like [TS]

  prescriptive process that has very very [TS]

  little room in it for how you actually [TS]

  would like to create this thing maybe [TS]

  you'd like to draw a picture first [TS]

  or maybe so in my case though the idea [TS]

  of this almost near non expense item [TS]

  that i could put literally anything on [TS]

  and do literally anything with was very [TS]

  continues to be very free huh [TS]

  I in eighth grade they started they [TS]

  started my turn up they but my immediate [TS]

  challenge the the Jewish run media na [TS]

  started a new york times started liar [TS]

  Hillary [TS]

  started 22 to teach me how to write a [TS]

  report for college because that was an [TS]

  unimpeachable a plan right [TS]

  if if a parent comes in and says my [TS]

  child is crying every Sunday about these [TS]

  reports the teacher the eighth grade [TS]

  teacher can say well this is the level [TS]

  of work that's required in college and [TS]

  we're trying to teach them that now I've [TS]

  told you before that my eighth-grade [TS]

  teacher required that all of our reports [TS]

  be written in pen because that was what [TS]

  was required in college and if you wrote [TS]

  in pencil she wouldn't accept the report [TS]

  and so I wrote my report including the [TS]

  life of a cell in pencil and those [TS]

  reports were not accepted and I got an F [TS]

  because the primary thing she wanted was [TS]

  for well for the for the rules to be [TS]

  followed exactly you didn't you didn't [TS]

  read the instructions you can follow the [TS]

  instructions you follow the instructions [TS]

  i read them she said then every time she [TS]

  put a big red elf on my page she said I [TS]

  told you then these need to be in pencil [TS]

  and you're not going to give and I'm not [TS]

  going to give and what ended up [TS]

  happening when I was in college was what [TS]

  I'd always done which was I read the [TS]

  book I never wrote a single thing down I [TS]

  never underlined or bracketed a single [TS]

  passage i read the book I thought about [TS]

  it and then the night before the thing [TS]

  was do I want it and wrote a thing and [TS]

  the thing was good and the teacher liked [TS]

  it and I got an A and I didn't really [TS]

  footnote things very well it wasn't you [TS]

  know it wasn't done correctly I never [TS]

  touched a single note card but this [TS]

  eighth grade teacher thought she was [TS]

  helping me be a better college senior [TS]

  and what it turned out was everything [TS]

  she taught me was irrelevant because I [TS]

  went through college the way I was going [TS]

  to go through college I chose the [TS]

  classes i was going to choose my [TS]

  teachers all had peace sign belt buckles [TS]

  and when I went and talked to them and [TS]

  said look I can't do these footnotes [TS]

  way but you're supposed to they were [TS]

  like oh man don't worry about it [TS]

  quality your work is really high love [TS]

  reading your piece and you know I found [TS]

  the path that was meant for me but in [TS]

  eighth grade I was consumed by shame [TS]

  ending ends and anxiety because i [TS]

  couldn't do it wasn't that I didn't know [TS]

  how it wasn't that I hadn't it hadn't [TS]

  been explained to me enough times it [TS]

  wasn't that that I hadn't been punished [TS]

  enough times it was that the punishment [TS]

  the shame punishment and the bad grade [TS]

  punishment and everything that went [TS]

  along with that was not sufficient to [TS]

  cause me to be a different person than I [TS]

  was and I still walk around with all I [TS]

  still walk around with the after effect [TS]

  of having spent eight years as a child [TS]

  being told by every adult that I [TS]

  encountered that I was doing it wrong [TS]

  it's no different than developing a [TS]

  muscle [TS]

  I mean I've in my former career would [TS]

  often say habits are like muscles like [TS]

  whatever it is you do the most is what [TS]

  becomes you in that case if you know [TS]

  whether it's right or wrong and [TS]

  different but if if every if everything [TS]

  that you face is just a recapitulation [TS]

  of how disappointing you are you can [TS]

  help internalized that [TS]

  yeah well and and imagine that you're a [TS]

  huge disappointment everybody the rest [TS]

  of your life which is which is something [TS]

  I genuinely feel like I have never felt [TS]

  not a disappointment [TS]

  I feel like I'm a disappointment to you [TS]

  right now Marlon he said this on your [TS]

  other program this week that you also it [TS]

  has found not a disappointment to you [TS]

  now i will be at some point right [TS]

  oh and this is interesting you listen to [TS]

  my other program I don't know [TS]

  and listen to it and and and assimilated [TS]

  the the conversation [TS]

  listen to it with real ears didn't [TS]

  outline you weren't sitting at your at [TS]

  your work been working on your Geppetto [TS]

  doll which would be an area twist [TS]

  obviously have a nokia major pet all [TS]

  right or if some if Geppetto was just a [TS]

  doll for a larger Geppetto that up but [TS]

  we should really start this show you [TS]

  ready to start and how's it going John [TS]

  being there was an insurrection I i I'm [TS]

  like to talk about this because i don't [TS]

  want to get anybody in trouble I don't [TS]

  know how [TS]

  official or pseudo officially this is [TS]

  but in my daughter's grade there was an [TS]

  insurrection early this year among the [TS]

  kids are among the parents amongst the [TS]

  teachers and arm I i guess it wasn't so [TS]

  much of its direction that it was [TS]

  quashed i guess it was an insurrection [TS]

  that was I don't know if it was welcomed [TS]

  and this is only ever talked about in [TS]

  whispers because you know it is when you [TS]

  don't want to ruin a thing but I you [TS]

  know you initially like you you get [TS]

  things to take home and do but it was [TS]

  like we were already like a week or two [TS]

  into the school years like hmm this is [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  we're not we're not getting this pile of [TS]

  shit somebody got off the internet still [TS]

  in copyright material and and eventually [TS]

  we learned that it was decided I don't [TS]

  it's not exactly unilaterally and not [TS]

  sure who always involved but the [TS]

  teachers just decided they're not doing [TS]

  homework for sure [TS]

  oh so yeah I mean they read articles to [TS]

  there was an NPR whoa karate chop [TS]

  yeah so we were talking about it just [TS]

  last night where you know she was sad [TS]

  cuz not sad but she was like oh we can't [TS]

  watch anymore gilmore girls because this [TS]

  time for bed at school tomorrow [TS]

  yes all of those things are true but I [TS]

  was like you know isn't it kind of [TS]

  better and of course you'll never get [TS]

  with me on anything but i can tell you [TS]

  it's way way better and you know I take [TS]

  most of all what I don't miss is I i [TS]

  hope i can get you on my side with this [TS]

  one then I really don't miss the reading [TS]

  log some of it what is that even [TS]

  well it's it seems like such a good idea [TS]

  so what we want our kids to do read when [TS]

  you're gonna do it every night so part [TS]

  of the homework for at least two years [TS]

  was you you get this sheet this you know [TS]

  again xerox sheet it's like what did you [TS]

  read who is the author what time did you [TS]

  read it [TS]

  how many pages did you read my god yeah [TS]

  so because you gotta read and you know [TS]

  the understanding is you read at least [TS]

  you know 20 minutes a night which is I'm [TS]

  I'm sorry I'm on the verge of bragging i [TS]

  don't mean to be accepted i am very [TS]

  proud of our daughter she's okay she's a [TS]

  very intelligent least she's a reader [TS]

  and I could not be happier i want to [TS]

  sing it from the mountaintops so that's [TS]

  its she's and but there are other kids [TS]

  who are not i mean i have it i have [TS]

  really good pals who kids with kids who [TS]

  are really smart or you know really [TS]

  something there [TS]

  they're not awful but the general [TS]

  intelligence maybe maybe or maybe they [TS]

  just they just don't like fucking books [TS]

  like they're not into it but it never [TS]

  started it well you know the first time [TS]

  for everything depends on the kind of [TS]

  work he does so it seems like a good [TS]

  idea you come up with the sheet and you [TS]

  say okay diary of the wimpy wimpy kid [TS]

  number three I read these 20 pages guess [TS]

  who does that fucking nobody [TS]

  it's due on Friday and now guess what [TS]

  you have to do to use John circuses are [TS]

  you have to back solve your week of [TS]

  reading you've gotta go figure out oh [TS]

  god and so every night I said is right [TS]

  on your reading log and it's tearing [TS]

  it's tearing my I want to tear my eyes [TS]

  out saying that you fill out your [TS]

  reading log because chairing this [TS]

  country apart let's take this thing that [TS]

  this kids somehow figured out how to [TS]

  love and do every day and then let's [TS]

  make it into a timecard yeah so I'm you [TS]

  know what it's like if you don't fill in [TS]

  your timecard you gotta go and like [TS]

  figure out how you spend your week so [TS]

  yeah so then it would be a guess what [TS]

  now we've taken congratulations San [TS]

  Francisco you've ruined reading because [TS]

  now we found a way to take something [TS]

  this kid for whatever reason pound sign [TS]

  blast they like to read and now we turn [TS]

  it into work and i get i get i think I [TS]

  get why they do it they want to make [TS]

  sure that the kids are reading at home [TS]

  with the parents are reading to them [TS]

  did you did you read this with somebody [TS]

  did you read it by yourself wasn't ready [TS]

  to you how difficult was it please fill [TS]

  out all of these things and one this is [TS]

  like such a good idea in the abstract [TS]

  but it was a complete source of [TS]

  unnecessary anxiety not solving a [TS]

  non-problem at and I and I honestly feel [TS]

  and I and I know that the these are I [TS]

  know that you often go quiet when I talk [TS]

  this way [TS]

  oh god please please wonder how my god [TS]

  exactly our 25 know and I'm only going [TS]

  to say i'm going to say well one or two [TS]

  sentences [TS]

  alright and then I hope hopefully you [TS]

  won't put this show into the show pilot [TS]

  that never got released but I'd but I [TS]

  feel like it is like be the attempt to [TS]

  prove that everyone is getting a good [TS]

  education [TS]

  often results in this kind of what what [TS]

  what seems like a good idea because it's [TS]

  leveling behavior everyone can prove [TS]

  that they read the books and what it [TS]

  doesn't do is serve the kids that are [TS]

  then already read the book and and it's [TS]

  meant to prove that the teachers have [TS]

  done a good a good job and it's meant to [TS]

  prove that no one got left behind [TS]

  yeah aight in its it try it seeks to [TS]

  ensure i just a phrase people been using [TS]

  so much this election season i think is [TS]

  very interesting idea of the ceiling of [TS]

  the floor like into this candidate you [TS]

  know has a fairly high floor like for [TS]

  whatever reason he's probably not gonna [TS]

  drop much lower no matter what happens [TS]

  but he also has a fairly low ceiling and [TS]

  an instance you're saying well let's [TS]

  make sure that the floor doesn't get too [TS]

  low for everybody but let's put spikes [TS]

  on the ceiling because you have fun yeah [TS]

  and and what and my big question about [TS]

  the teachers that had a an insurrection [TS]

  and decided not to do homework is up the [TS]

  chain up their train their geppetto [TS]

  geppetto hmm is is going to suffer some [TS]

  consequences right there's pressure from [TS]

  the top down and from the sides i can [TS]

  just meet ping-pong that's gonna be some [TS]

  notes about why their kid isn't being [TS]

  worked harder [TS]

  yeah and and it has something that's [TS]

  really think and that all is you know I [TS]

  there's that cultural aspect of it but [TS]

  also somewhere up the up the school [TS]

  board or somewhere in this the school [TS]

  district favorite some articles and [TS]

  they're charged with that being their [TS]

  job they have no cards to do and [TS]

  footnotes to Rack is when the japan [TS]

  geppetto geppetto calls them into their [TS]

  Geppetto office and they say hey show me [TS]

  that everybody's reading their dick in [TS]

  your hand right and and when the SATs [TS]

  which are a bad indicator of people's [TS]

  you know it [TS]

  education and intelligence and and [TS]

  future capabilities when those when [TS]

  those tests come back the that's how [TS]

  they determine whether or not the [TS]

  principal keeps their job right and no [TS]

  the thing is none of it worked for me it [TS]

  wasn't what I was meant to do and I was [TS]

  and when God made me he or she said we [TS]

  need one of the [TS]

  these we don't need a lot of these your [TS]

  limited edition but right now we need [TS]

  one of these and at every step along the [TS]

  way adults apart part half-educated [TS]

  adults some presuming to be educated in [TS]

  things that I don't think you can even [TS]

  be educated in which is could complete [TS]

  understanding of the human mind and so [TS]

  every step along the way adults were [TS]

  intervening and telling me that who I [TS]

  wasn't how I was made was wrong and [TS]

  needed and what I needed to do was this [TS]

  this this and this things that were not [TS]

  just incompatible to identify the [TS]

  problem misidentified the solution like [TS]

  right but is not part of it though it's [TS]

  this whole like well I'm i am here to [TS]

  set you straight [TS]

  I'm going to tell you that you are [TS]

  broken and then i'm going to tell you to [TS]

  fix it in a way that wouldn't fix it [TS]

  even if it were a problem it's around [TS]

  solution to a non-problem right and in [TS]

  the case of my own daughter [TS]

  I have said the following things do not [TS]

  put your hand down your underwear in a [TS]

  restaurant [TS]

  do not stand and hit daddy stand on a [TS]

  bench and hit daddy in the face [TS]

  do not have a breakdown screaming crying [TS]

  fit because there's rice on your plate [TS]

  beyond that the potatoes are ok you know [TS]

  she doesn't like potatoes because that's [TS]

  born into her now sets in her blood but [TS]

  beyond that like what's going on with [TS]

  you and what's your deal [TS]

  stop talking about feelings yeah and [TS]

  she's most of the time like you know I [TS]

  don't everything's fine i don't have a [TS]

  deal and I'm like all right [TS]

  right on i'm not going to sit here you [TS]

  know identity even though i think having [TS]

  a deal is very important oh god [TS]

  everything I got a deal just going to [TS]

  figure out what it is [TS]

  yeah I'm sitting you're desperate you [TS]

  got a year buddy you got a deal [TS]

  I'm in the I mean the catcher's Crouch [TS]

  with with my big catchers meant waiting [TS]

  for her to throw the pitch of her deal [TS]

  at me [TS]

  and I'm senator signals like please [TS]

  throw a heater right down the middle and [TS]

  she keeps turning around and throwing [TS]

  the ball to first base and looks at me [TS]

  and shakes off my calls [TS]

  I'm like well what can I do you know [TS]

  what the adults did to me what didn't [TS]

  work and my parents tried to correct the [TS]

  mistakes of their parents because their [TS]

  parents like every time I my grandfather [TS]

  told my mom not to stick your butt out [TS]

  when she walked [TS]

  oh that's it out because that was [TS]

  suggestive milestone was the second sexy [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah in the farm town of Van Wert Ohio [TS]

  in 1942 em if you walk with your butt [TS]

  sticking out its it's bad when you're [TS]

  walking home from school and so good so [TS]

  it changed the way my mom walks [TS]

  oh god and you know and my dad's dad was [TS]

  like you need to listen more when i wake [TS]

  you up drunk at two o'clock in the [TS]

  morning so I'm gonna put you into a cool [TS]

  bath tub like a bathtub the local high [TS]

  school so my parents were trying to do [TS]

  better than that [TS]

  yeah and I'm trying to be better than [TS]

  needed and in my case I like I don't [TS]

  know what's going to happen when she [TS]

  brings home homework that makes her cry [TS]

  but i'm pretty sure what's going to [TS]

  happen is that I throw it in the [TS]

  fireplace [TS]

  yeah and then when they send a note home [TS]

  with her saying your daughter isn't [TS]

  doing her homework [TS]

  I'm gonna send a note back that says I [TS]

  know and that's going to go on until the [TS]

  time they send me a letter that says we [TS]

  cannot advance your daughter to the next [TS]

  grade but that's never going to happen [TS]

  because at a certain point she will [TS]

  through her love of learning figure out [TS]

  a way you know she's never gonna get [TS]

  held back because she didn't because I [TS]

  didn't you know what i mean like i never [TS]

  got held back right [TS]

  they couldn't I even though they tried [TS]

  and so but that is it but that's maybe [TS]

  teaching her a terrible lesson about the [TS]

  world but i think the lesson I'm trying [TS]

  to teach her in the world is there's a [TS]

  place for you in the world there's a [TS]

  point for you being here and there's a [TS]

  place for you [TS]

  and find it you know I'm not gonna tell [TS]

  you where it is don't let a teacher tell [TS]

  you where it is either like find your [TS]

  place in the world there is one that is [TS]

  good you know and and maybe I'm gonna [TS]

  have to homeschooler get that I get that [TS]

  Jeep start the long drive [TS]

  yeah if I homeschooler what will end up [TS]

  happening is she her mind won't get [TS]

  polluted with this evolution business [TS]

  oh my god from your mouth tub to [TS]

  Geppetto yeah you are a start [TS]

  should we do the show yeah I don't have [TS]

  my bell gonna eat the sandwich now [TS]

  Donald Trump says he alone can solve [TS]

  America's problems at his rallies he [TS]

  whips his supporters into a violent [TS]

  frenzy and says that people who have [TS]

  criticized in will suffer when he's [TS]

  president Trump blacklists members of [TS]

  the media that write negative stories [TS]

  about him and says that when he's [TS]

  president will restrict the rights of [TS]

  the Free Press [TS]

  he openly calls for the u.s. to commit [TS]

  more crimes and says that we should [TS]

  torture and kill the innocent children [TS]

  of suspected terrorists regarding [TS]

  waterboarding he said even if it doesn't [TS]

  work they probably deserved it anyway [TS]

  a veteran told trunk that American [TS]

  soldiers wouldn't follow that order and [TS]

  Trump said they're not going to refuse [TS]

  me if I say do it they're going to do it [TS]

  dictators around the world love Trump he [TS]

  is praised by vladimir putin and Kim [TS]

  John's state-run media back in nineteen [TS]

  ninety Trump's wife told her lawyer that [TS]

  he keeps a copy of Hitler's speeches by [TS]

  his bedside Trump surrounds himself with [TS]

  the yes men sycophants and fools [TS]

  there's nobody in Trump's inner circle [TS]

  that will tell him no or correct him on [TS]

  the facts now Donald Trump gets [TS]

  classified national security briefings [TS]

  and he has repeatedly asked why the u.s. [TS]

  can't use its nuclear weapon [TS]

  as Americans it is our duty to resist [TS]

  fascist dictators wherever they rise up [TS]

  in the world this November we are not [TS]

  going to elect one here the nuisance [TS]

  committee is responsible for the content [TS]

  of this advertising [TS]

  [Music] [TS]