The Incomparable

00:00:07 ◼   ► the incomparable number 198 jun 2014 [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► welcome back to being comfortable [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► podcast I'm your host Jason style and we [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► got a very interesting topic and panel a [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► little bit different I feel actually a [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► shame that it is a little bit different [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► because we should have had an episode [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► with a panel composed this way before [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► and it just hasn't happened but it's [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► happening this time we have a special [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► guest and we have some regular attendees [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► and I think we're gonna have a good time [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► let me introduce my panel Lisa [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► Schmeisser is here [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► hello hi it's nice to be back good to [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► have you back so soon [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► no less yeah it's crazy so I who else [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► Eric and sign also here [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► sign in please report your name rank and [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► serial number I don't you can't see me [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► but I'm saluting our good good is that a [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► Canadian salute you're doing Mary we [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► don't accept those here left Kevin ah [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► loop [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► alright and a special guest the head of [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► development at my favorite name in the [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► in a company i think that i can happen [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► anytime soon I was chanting it chanting [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► it earlier today because i enjoy saying [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► giant space cat it is Brianna Wu hello [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► hey what's crackalackin we're good we'll [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► find out won't we [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► that's what that's what we're here to [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► find out is what's crackalackin I i'm [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► going to be here I'm going to answer [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► that question okay oh good forward [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► product that's always good tease where [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► we're going and then people are going to [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► have to stay tuned to find out it's like [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► a little it's like a storytelling [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► technique that gamers would know that [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► right that's that's a key part of your [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► job too forward but i don't know what [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► i'm talking about so I i have i have got [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► you i'm also shaken because serenity [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► color was going to be here and then she [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► had to go away so it's very sad [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► we will carry on bravely without her [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► somehow yes somehow could make this [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► podcast happen she could not make it and [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► that's fine she had a friend in need and [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► that is more important than sleep at all [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► so I so yes so you see you [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► some people may have noticed too that I [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► i I'm being joined by three women [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► panelists and I i wanna have a little in [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► the spirit of John syracuse I have a [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► little opening statement [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► I know I know well John is an [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► inspiration to us all [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► first off i wanted to point out that one [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► of the things that I always tried to do [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► is the host is get the panel the panel [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► started was just people I knew and I [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► realize at some point that I knew a lot [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► of dudes which made the panel more male [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► than female although i was always happy [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► that I I knew two women who wanted to be [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► on the podcast from the get-go and talk [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► about nerdy stuff and that was Lisa and [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► serenity and i was very happy to have [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► those and then over time I've tried to [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► be more cognizant of encouraging them to [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► be on episodes i actually went out and [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► stock to Erica on the Internet [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► I've never been I've never been happier [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► people actually luckily I've never tell [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► actually penstocks a conventional you [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► know you listen to podcast you say is [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► that somebody who would fit in with our [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► particular level with madness or not and [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► and and I i hope you don't take offense [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► I I said yes when I heard what I heard [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► you was like I think she's like us but i [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► find that the highest of compliments and [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► I think you are right I appreciate that [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► so my story is this which is and i was [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► telling this to serenity last week and [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► she's not a podcast nobody's heard this [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► story before I want for anybody well I [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► will bore you but it we want to hurt [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► before so this is my story which is [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► growing up as a as a a elementary school [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► student I was always drawn toward [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► science fiction and fantasy and from [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► when I was watching Star Trek as a kid [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► and I always have this perception that [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► one a lot of times I was the only person [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► who was into this stuff and to that i [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► was the only that that only boys were [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► into this stuff and the girls weren't [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► into it and in that that perception [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► persisted in through high school and and [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► in college after i had got rid of many [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► of my nerdy things in order to seem less [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► nerdy which totally failed by the way to [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► women in college i discovered of course [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► in college at the heyday of Star Trek [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► The Next Generation that I was [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► completely wrong and that women love [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► this stuff too and that I just seem to [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► either not know them or totally miss it [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► and i wanted to start there which is you [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► know what I was wrong was this was this [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► something that was mostly male [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► and it's just changed over the last 20 [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► years or was always there and for some [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► reason either i couldn't see it or that [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► girls who like this stuff don't want to [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► talk about it or admit to it because I i [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► had a real you know hundred and eighty [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► degree turn in college when I realized [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► that my assumption about who liked this [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► stuff was totally and utterly wrong [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► that's been in my opening statement what [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► you think huh [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► I think I certainly don't want to speak [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► for the world or even the States but no [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► I'm looking I'm looking for your [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► personal stories more than anything else [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► for your own journey like okay my [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► personal story is that that it your [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► mother right [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► I grew up with as as we know so I was [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► definitely into this stuff from a young [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► age but I have to be honest I didn't [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► know very many other girls who were I [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► can think of a few who I bonded with it [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► became good friends with but for the [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► most part that there weren't that many [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► of us it really was just us a couple [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► girls and a bunch of guys and I think it [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► sucks being a girl and I'm ensure that [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► sucks being a guy in junior high school [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► as well but you know growing up [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► there's there's a lot of judgment and I [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► think that when you're talking when it [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► came to geeky stuff at that time the [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► judgment was a lot more harsh on the [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► girls that it was on the guys for for [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► being a little bit geeky and you know we [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► were getting judged for everything in [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► the first place so i think a lot of [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► girls just who would have really enjoyed [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► the same stuff that i was reading it [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► didn't even try it because they were [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► just too afraid so I think maybe as geek [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► culture sort of started hitting the [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► mainstream little bit more by a little [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► bit more those same girls who would have [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► been enjoying it all along [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► finally kind of got the guts to try it [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► out and were like oh my god this stuff [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► is awesome [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► I wasted so many years so when my my [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► personal experience from from the little [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► town that I grew up in is that you were [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► right but but you but it's sad that you [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► were right i guess this is how it works [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► out [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► I didn't meet a critical mass of Lady [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► geeks until college because my and to be [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► honest up until about high school it [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► never occurred to the [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► wasn't normal because when I was in [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► elementary school the first three [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► science fiction / fantasy media products [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► that i can seemed were Star Wars Star [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► Trek and Star Blazers and in every [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► single one of those who had one possibly [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► two women and five to seven men and so I [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► just assumed naively because I'm six or [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► seven years old I had assumed that the [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► ratio reflected like real life interest [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► like obviously there would be more girls [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► in science fiction and fantasy more [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► girls liked in real life because this is [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► the logic you have an elementary school [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► paper and like Eric I didn't have a lot [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► of girl friends growing up who were into [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► this stuff i mean even when I had [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► friends who are girls I was known as [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► though that's Lisa she reads the weird [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► stuff and it wasn't until high school [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► when I I i fell into a i guess one of [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► the collections libraries epidemic [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► library must have been about a crypto [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► sci-fi feminist or something because the [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► book shelves are stocked with marion [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► zimmer bradley Joanna rest [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► sherry temper and Suzette elgin hating [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► all of whom have have have done a lot of [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► you know incisive work it from a very [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► you know female center point of view and [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► that way MIT I shouldn't that this the [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► idea that there's a ratio and that my [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► interest is an outline interest that's a [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► weird assumption to have and that's a [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► wrong assumption to have them like i [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► said in college I realized there was [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► such a thing as a critical critical [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► massive lady geeks but you know even [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► when I walk into comic book stores today [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► I'm never in the majority I've never had [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► the experience of walking to a comic [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► book store noticing more men than women [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► and most the time when I going on a [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► Tuesday afternoon or wednesday for a [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► polis tits it's me and two other guys so [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► i think possibly in terms of what people [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► read what they watch on TV what they [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► what they see in the movies there's [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► probably more evening of the ratios [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► because I i know a lot of women now [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► we're really like the x-men or Star Trek [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► or Star Wars but i still think there are [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► pockets under the umbrella of geek [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► culture whether there's a profound in [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► balance and i'm not sure if that's a [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► temperamental thing or if there's a lot [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► of cultural baggage that I don't [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► perceive just because I'm so you [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► 22 the ratio not working on my favorite [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► for so long [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► no it's I i completely agree with what [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► you just said and yeah i'm also [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► uncomfortable speaking for you know half [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► the human race but i can say like I had [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► a very similar your background is all of [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► you i work at my company is one of the [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► few all-female game dev teams in the [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► entire industry every woman on my team [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► has also had a story exactly like this [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► my co-founder is actually a cheerleader [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► in high school and felt like she had to [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► kind of hide this stuff and other ppl [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► cant kind of didn't relate to her um you [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► know I think it's I think it's [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► definitely become more accepted but i [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► also think that there are all kinds of [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► things around geek culture that are real [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► no girls allowed signs that are really [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► they're really invisible two guys they [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► don't understand it and it sometimes in [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► you know big ways like you know like a [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► comic con might have you know a girl [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► with her chest hanging out you know what [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► the advertisements it's in ways that [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► science-fiction tends to really [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► typically you know sexualize the lead [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► female characters Star Trek has been [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► tremendously guilty and not and yeah [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► it's you know so it's this it's all [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► these things about the culture that you [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► know it's it's a thousand little things [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► but at the end of the day it it is men [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► kind of standing there and saying like [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► this is our space this is our culture [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► and it does kind of push you away i [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► think the women that kind of push back [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► and stay in the field and stand up for [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► their interests i think that we kind of [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► developed thick-skinned necessarily [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► would you guys agree with them you know [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► i don't know if you guys have had this [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► experience but it was a real shock to me [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► the first time I busted out with comic [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► book cannon and had a couple guys I was [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► talking to actually act really angry [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► that he you know as opposed to having a [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► collaborative conversation and I was [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► really [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► I was a teenager and I remember being [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► really taken aback because all through [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► elementary school middle school even [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► high school like the sensible boys were [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► never this great mystery and you know or [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► or this entire species because I could [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► speak the language that a lot of these [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► guys spoke you know we always pass code [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► books back and forth we put Dungeons and [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► Dragons together we watched the same [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► shows but you know you meet a couple of [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► guys and we get to talk about comic [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► books and they were really angry that [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► instead of them teaching me about comic [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► books or whatever I had my own opinions [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► and my own back and forth and it took me [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► a long time to realize that force for [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► for some aspects of geek culture there's [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► there's a real alpha male hierarchy take [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► thing going on where you know I know the [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► most about XYZ therefore I'm the alpha [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► in this situation and I had been used to [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► running into that like in classrooms [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► with with typical high school [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► discussions i was a shock to me to [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► discover in indy cultures like I didn't [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► realize there was that performative [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► aspect to it where it i think one of the [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► reasons that blew me away was one of the [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► things that's consistently drawn me to [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► sci-fi and fantasy over the years has [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► been in don't it's all thought [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► experiments different societies what if [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► what if these definitions minority [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► majority of flipped or what if this the [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► social premise levels of salt equal [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► economically and I had assumed that this [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► this questioning of current societal [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► mores and this reexamination of of [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► social interactions was something that [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► everyone shares in fandom I hadn't [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► realized that people brought in these [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► these external expectations about gender [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► roles or what women could or should [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► shouldn't do you know in terms of [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► somebody's interest it was a huge shock [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► to me so when I go in the want to go to [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► target i'm going to just saying it might [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► go to target because my son usually [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► demands that we go to target because [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► gift certificate or something [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► go to the toy aisle and it is a horror [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► show because it is there is a boy toy [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► aisle and there is a girl toy island and [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► listen to you guys talk to one of the [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► things that this reminds me of is a [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► science fiction and fantasy and other [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► geeky stuff like that people [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► people filed it in the boy I'll which is [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► towards so wrong on so many levels but [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► if you're a boy you just senile full of [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► toys and you don't think about it which [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► is I think what my experience was in [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► that would you know which again is so I [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► I like i said i had this revelation much [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► later that that I had you know you don't [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► know where that barrier is there until [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► you step outside yourself a little bit [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► and you find that you've made this this [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► this totally crazy assumption about it i [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► mean i can only speak for myself but [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► even today when you know sometimes my [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► husband and I will go check out the toys [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► at toys r us and you i'm an engineer I i [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► do game development and for me the toys [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► that are interesting or like if you go [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► to the girls toy aisle [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► it's barbie and it's brats and it's you [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► know it's it's a bunch of messages that [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► say be a doll be pretty you know dress [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► up as this and don't even get me started [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► on the LEGO Friends line haha oh there's [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► a reason we're using my place the [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► nineteen seventies of my daughter they [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► were actually much less gender determine [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► the toy sale [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► well it's because its marketing right [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► they decided to that there's some [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► something effective about it because [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► parents respond to it i don't mind my [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► daughter we dressed in yellow and green [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► and all that and then she saw the [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► princess episode of dora the explorer [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► which I will curse to this day and also [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► it was like going on things we know [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► because one it's fine but you know that [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► that that marketing aspect like i said i [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► just did the girl toys boys bins really [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► bugs me [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► the boys if you go over to that aisle [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► it's all men having adventures you can [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► be Batman you can go save the world you [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► can be GI Joe you can you can go do [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► things and to me this is such an [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► unbelievably dangerous message for 4 [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► girls to get like girls the messages be [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► pretty dress up [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► um you boys the messages go have an [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► adventure do things have hope this smash [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► things and I don't know it's it's like [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► when I look at a Barbie doll i find it [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► very aesthetically pleasing and it's not [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► that I don't enjoy the girly aspect of [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► them but it is [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► really bothers me that you have to this [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► day when they bring out video game toys [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► um gears of war they never include the [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► female characters [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► yes superhero movies they will not make [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► female characters generally or it's like [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► a Smurfette you know one out of all of [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► them and it's not just the gendered [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► aspect it's this message that women are [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► inculcated into before we can even think [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► straight [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► the kind of keeps us out of key culture [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► yeah at the gonna steal us her story [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► from my very co-host Deb who is that a [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► McDonald's with a bunch of young [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► children it was girls it was an internal [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► some sort of sporting event coding and [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► some of them got the happy meal with the [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► book quote unquote boy and some of them [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► got the Happy Meal the quote-unquote [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► girl toy they think they were all like [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► spider-man or something whatever it was [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► the quote unquote [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► oh I have stories about this because [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► happiness mission just ended and I have [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► a daughter so i'll jump after you do [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► yes the boy with something active i [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► don't remember exactly what it was and [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► the girl was a notebook so like you [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► girls should sit and think and write and [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► boys to do stuff so they've had four [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► weeks and spot so they had 46 spider-man [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► promotion or they had four weeks of [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► spider-man promotion and I take my [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► daughter to mcdonalds once a week [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► because i'm a terrible parent and done [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► we call and we have happy meals and we [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► sit and we talk whatever and one of the [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► spider man i would look at the toy every [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► week and one week she did ask for the [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► girl toy which it was a little comb / me [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► where you press a button and the [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► conflicts out and she kept saying it was [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► her knife which I think that's fine um [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► the next week it was like you said was a [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► notebook vs this really nifty wind up [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► spider and they had her the notebook and [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► I marched back up to the front of [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► mcdonalds and said no I asked the boys [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► to give me the spider and so give my [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► daughter the spider and she loves and [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► it's in megan is the name of the spider [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► because it everywhere with us now but it [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► was amazing because you have their toys [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► if you were a boy when we've got trading [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► cards if you are a girl you got you got [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► like heart stickers or something like [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► that another week of stationary and I [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► thought to myself this is an action [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► movie about a web slinger and you're [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► basically telling children little girls [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► that their job is to [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► groom themselves and and and and keep up [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► spider-man's correspondence while the [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► boys kept copies and you know what the [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► what the what and you know again my [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► daughter's young enough now where i can [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► pick the toy and she's happy with it and [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► she still an age where she is very much [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► action oriented likely to give any given [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► week she spider-man today she was Hulk [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► smash she doesn't think the whole pieces [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► hold Smash's helps match today she was [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► Superman the other day that's all [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► smashes his last name we do you usually [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► means for very familiar home [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► she's right mr. Smathers just yesterday [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► I wonder how you know I wonder how much [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► longer that's gonna last [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► just because at some point the social [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► pressure does kick in i want to ask [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► about I want to ask about how this world [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► is changing because just in my [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► experience not just not being kind of [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► oblivious are although I do think this [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► was obviously a male-dominated field for [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► a while but but I feel like it's [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► changing when I go to comic-con when I [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► went to Gallifrey one right met Erica [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► and person you know the the the women [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► are everywhere it does not feel like a [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► boys club and I honestly the Doctor Who [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► convention i went to when I was in high [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► school I felt like a boys club and [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► comic-con just in the five years i've [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► been going to comic-con in san diego I [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► feel like I'm seeing more women of all [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► ages in its in attendance at end and the [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► only other piece of anecdote that I [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► wanted to pile on here is you know when [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► when I got into buffy the vampire slayer [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► the people who I told about it who got [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► into it with me were almost entirely my [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► women friends and the same went for the [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► Doctor Who reboot you know at an end and [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► so I feel like again this is one person [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► goes i'm not speaking for any percentage [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► of the population when I say this but it [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► feels to me like there has been a change [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► and whether that's III don't know the [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► cause or whether it's just visibility [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► that's changed but it feels to me like [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► you know some of the issues and fights [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► and arguments that happened on the [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► internet now are all because things have [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► changed and the old assumptions can be [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► made anymore which is a good thing it's [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► certain but it probably feels different [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► to me x take a brief [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► break and tell you about our sponsor for [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► this episode it is the fine people over [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► at Squarespace you may know Squarespace [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► Squarespace is the all-in-one platform [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► that makes it fast and easy to create [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► your own professional website portfolio [TS]

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00:20:22 ◼   ► squarespace.com and use the offer code [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► smell sent me that's me [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► my last names now sent me you know [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► building a website used to be hard you [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► just have to know lots of HTML and [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► JavaScript and CSS and all those things [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► and you know and back in my day we used [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► to build websites with her uphill both [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► ways in the snow it was hard is what I'm [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► saying in the early days and then some [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► tools came along and made it a little [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► bit easier but it's never been easier to [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► build a website and have it be beautiful [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► on top of that as it is now thanks to [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► squarespace Squarespace is constantly [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► updating their platform with new [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► features new designs more support they [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► have these beautiful templates to start [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► with and then there are options you're [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► not stuck with whatever they give you [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► and it has to look exactly like their [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► designer setup that they're designers [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► won awards for these templates but the [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► great thing about them is there are tons [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► of style options so you can personalize [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► them and make it your very own space [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► online it's easy to use everything is [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► drag-and-drop you can add content from [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► your desktop rearrange elements within a [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► page it's automatically going to look [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► great on your desktop but it's also look [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► great on mobile because every [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► Squarespace website has its own unique [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► mobile design as well you can connect in [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► Twitter and Facebook and lots of other [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► social services and web services and I [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► mentioned earlier online stores [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► Squarespace has e-commerce built into [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► the platform now so if you want to get [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► set up and start selling things on the [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► internet you can do it using Squarespace [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► in just a few minutes it's that easy to [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► use but if you do need some help [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► Squarespace has award-winning support as [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► well there are more than 70 Squarespace [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► employees on the customer care team [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► they're located in New York City and [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► Dublin and they're available [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► twenty-four-seven for live chat and [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► email support so here's what you do [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► try squarespace for free you don't have [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► to give them a credit card or anything [TS]

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00:22:14 ◼   ► just eight dollars a month and if you [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► sell it for [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► whole year at that rate you'll get a [TS]

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00:22:20 ◼   ► make sure to get ten percent off and [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► support the incomparable by using the [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► offer code Snell sent me so thank you to [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► squarespace for supporting me [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► uncomfortable run out [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► Snell sent me as the offer code to get [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► ten percent off Squarespace a better web [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► starts with your website [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► well the first generation of little [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► girls who dressed up as Princess Leia [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► for Halloween around for now [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► grandparents and I think I don't think [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► you can underestimate the impact that [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► michelle nichols and Carrie Fisher had [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► on little girl on people who were little [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► girls between the ages of like between [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► the year select 1968 1988 and I think I [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► know it's really tried but I think we [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► can't underestimate the impact of the [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► internet it because I like i said you [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► put a lot of the the young girls were [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► trying these things that they were [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► afraid of being judged and being told [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► that they were you know not pretty [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► enough or they're stupid or weird or a [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► key because they're doing this this [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► strange geeky boy stuff and now that the [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► internet is out there and people are [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► able to to see what folks are doing all [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► over the not just the country but all [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► over the world [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► it's there are a lot more girls of all [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► ages seeing that there are women [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► elsewhere who are doing this stuff and [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► therefore it makes it okay to try it and [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► of course not every little girl that [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► tries reading Isaac asthma or whatever [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► it is gonna like it the way I did but [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► made many of them white so that there's [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► a much bigger chance now for for [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► connecting through there are more people [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► sort of sampling and I think there are [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► also more guys sampling from the [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► quote-unquote girl stuff like you said [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► be with buffy the vampire slayer which [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► you know a lot of people like Buffy [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► remember so sweet girl stuff damn that [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► is how I heard it yeah i also want to be [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► culturally I feel like we have I talk [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► about boys and girls toys but in reality [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► is I think it's more generally there are [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► toys and then there are girl toys and [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► then there are some toys that are really [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► coated for male but there are also a lot [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► that are just the assumption is these [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► are toys and I think then it the [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► assumption is there mail and then there [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► are the special toys the girl that will [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► be four girls that girls will like and [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► bear in mind that that I spent a long [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► period of time on the lunacy of a [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► pregnancy and birth boards i'd have to [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► say that that what I think it's kind of [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► weird now is is mother [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► my observation on the internet which may [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► have little bearing on real life huh is [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► that there is a strong it is is that [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► people are okay with girls pushing [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► outside of gender norms but mothers of [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► little boys are really really [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► gender Norman them early and hard like [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► from babyhood where they'll pick up a [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► baby girl when she cries but they don't [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► want to spoil a 12 week old baby boy [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► which is just no I brought up the boys [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► toys and girl toys only to say I feel [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► like maybe some of this some of the the [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► geekier media stuff was in the Boy bin [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► and boys wouldn't notice and has been [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► moved out in maybe into a more kind of [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► like non gender appropriate thing like I [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► don't feel like like I think there are [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► very few i don't know maybe I'm wrong I [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► i think there are very few pieces of [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► media that i would say of this kind of [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► media that i would say oh well that's [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► just for women although I see that [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► another genre is too so maybe it's clear [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► here too i just feel like that's that [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► this is what people reacting to is that [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► it's not just for boys only anymore and [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► that freaks them out and yes I do i do [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► think they think at that level of being [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► four boys anyway Brianna go ahead [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► no I was I was just gonna make two [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► points like first I agree with your [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► posture that it's it's definitely [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► getting better it's absolutely getting [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► better in geek culture but I think [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► something that we really have to think [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► about is the way that women are [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► generally portrayed in geek culture you [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► know like um yeah we talked about [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► superhero movies um you're the woman the [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► women that we see are almost always [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► gorgeous and they're in their twenties [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► and you very almost never see women [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► outside of that very narrow range of [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► roles like even in Doctor Who a series i [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► think is generally pretty good at being [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► you giving women kind of more of a fair [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► shake [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► I think you really see women are [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► portrayed in this very narrow range and [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► I think that has extremely serious [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► consequences [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► um the other thing that was going to say [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► is I i think that it is better for geek [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► culture as a whole but the industry i'm [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► in video games [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► it's not better and it is a it is a [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► fight every single day and I find myself [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► in the middle of this street fight and [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► adjacent the beginning of this you were [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► talking about can boys feeling like it [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► was their space [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► um I think if it's bad and geek culture [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► it is beyond pronounced in video game [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► culture and you're just getting like [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► this is a culture where people celebrate [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► when excellent games like Tomb Raider [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► with female protagonist fail financially [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► I mean yeah this is it it's extremely [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► problematic so i guess i would just be a [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► little hesitant to you portray the issue [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► like you know it's all this is not one [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► space this is a whole bunch of [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► interconnected cultures [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► yeah that are in various places i was [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► going to mention my ipod twelve-year-old [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► daughter she loves video games also but [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► the stuff that she loves honestly is [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► stuff that he does feel like it's a [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► safer place [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► it's it's minecraft it's a bunch of [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► nintendo stuff it's uh you know connect [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► a various connect like dancing games in [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► the Star Wars games and things like that [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► it's not when she's not at the age yet [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► she's getting close where a lot of the [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► stuff that's marketed to teenage boys [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► where there's lots of you know shooting [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► and stuff and that's like the mainstream [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► and she's just not there yet and that's [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► my concern is that she's going to enter [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► a period where she's ready for the [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► broader world of games and those games [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► aren't going to be for her [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► they're not going to speak to her and [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► they're not going to want her presence [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► and that that concerns me because i love [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► the fact that she loves video games and [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► I want you know I i know that sounds [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► crazy for a parent to say but welcome to [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► the 21st century I want her to engage [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► with video games I don't want her to [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► turn away from it because I think that's [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► you know I i think it they're great and [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► and she shouldn't get driven out because [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► they're for boys that's really offensive [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► to me but I'm worried that we're on the [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► precipice of that because the next level [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► up is a lot tougher than the stuff [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► that's at the nintendo in Minecraft [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► level III think it's getting better [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► ica getting better like just on just [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► today [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► new tomb raider was announced I think [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► tomb raider such a northstar for we're [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► at the industry needs to go on this [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► issue lara croft started her video game [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► career as like this large breasted sex [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► symbol that was for the male gaze and [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► wedged it was very clear issues [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► appealing to although to be fair that [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► was my wife's favorite console game the [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► tomb raider for playstation absolutely [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► and you know I think my point but you're [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► writing any women that like that [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► character she and she rolled her eyes a [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► lot of the stuff that was in it right [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► but she still liked it but last year you [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► had the franchise taken over by female [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► rider Rhianna Pratchett who is excellent [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► and you had the lead character turned [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► into i think from this sex symbol into [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► one of the most actualized interesting [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► three-dimensional women in video game [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► history that has intricate relationships [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► with her female friends who isn't just a [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► sex symbol for the men and you have [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► another sequel coming out with that and [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► I guess my message to your daughter is [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► it's getting better [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► there are different narratives out there [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► for her but it doesn't happen [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► serendipitously like their women in the [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► industry like rhianna pratchett who [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► really thought for certain lines in that [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► game you know and their women like me [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► that are trying to do different things [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► in the genre so you know there's it is [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► not just gonna happen magically yeah [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► it's it's a it's funny the I don't know [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► it is it's it being with her on the [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► verge of being a teenager this is the [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► this is a one of those issues is that is [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► that there is always a new wave of of [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► cultural stuff that comes pouring in and [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► there's that question again about what's [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► the what you said about video game [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► culture being different from some of [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► these other you know sci-fi and TV and [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► movie fandom and comics and maybe even [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► and with with each be aged wave you have [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► to process that too so that's that's my [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► concern although it's good to hear that [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► that you know because I want her to stay [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► engaged she does you know she does love [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► this stuff and and [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► I I you know I hope that she's at the [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► vanguard of a generation of girls who [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► are going to play games and I'm not get [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► driven out by you know things that are [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► all about what boys like I hope she'll [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► enjoy games and she'll look to what it's [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► like in 2014 where there are women in [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► the industry that are making games and i [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► hope that you know she'll see that there [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► are possibilities models out there for [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► her if she wants to she can go do this [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► in the industry herself and you know [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► ultimately we're talking about comics or [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► your video games [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► ultimately the answer to a lot of these [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► things is to simply get more women [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► involved in the process and then these [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► issues solve themselves it's doing that [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► in comics I've noticed because if you go [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► if you go to the internet especially the [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► women who write and produce their own [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► comments are doing really interesting [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► work and in many cases it's a lot more [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► compelling artistically narrative Lee [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► than than what you might actually see [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► being mean I'm printed and producing a [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► comic book store there's one girls [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► tumblr i follow ginger Hayes was her [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► name-o Noelle Stevenson Ramona I was [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► going to mention our love demoniac so [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► much i love moaning so much yeah [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► yes on what you know she's one example [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► there's another one called strong female [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► protagonist and oh you know who i'm [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► thinking of it some she's part she does [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► the comic gosh i'm blanking on her name [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► but she does that the great comics and [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► about like that the strong woman [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► feminists ok you know country accents [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► podcast and also going to Jason but the [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► but the point is plenty [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► there's there's plenty of knishes being [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► filled being created and filled online [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► and every time I read about the comics [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► industries in trouble i think well you [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► know the old school comics industry is [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► in trouble but you've got a whole [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► generation of women who are are [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► basically crafting the industry that [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► they would like to see and i find that [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► incredibly exciting i find webcomics to [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► be one of the most exciting and vibrant [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► places to be and I think it's also good [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► space for feminist then can I ask you a [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► question about that though because I see [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► you know I really love comics too and [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► you know I honestly go [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► I don't read webcomics oh look at DC [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► and you know whether it's DC or marvel [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► or idw yeah it's the same thing every [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► single you know couple of weeks when i [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► put up the ipad and look at it it's like [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► who's making something that's aimed at [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► me and I do see very few female artists [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► i do see you're relatively few female [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► writers and I see almost no books that [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► are about women like I know there's a [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► new x-men book that's coming out that's [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► all d of x men women [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► I'm really psyched about that you know [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► I'm i I've read a few issues of that and [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► i thought i would be really excited [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► about that you're not going [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► yeah well and bearing in mind i'm also [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► batting away that the ghost of my [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► childhood where like age 12 and 13 I [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► drove my own x roster that was solely [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► women and i have my own imaginary [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► character i would have injected in there [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► and so you know you personally I was [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► just kinda disappointed with how it [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► started and i also wonder again I think [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► there's a lot of baggage because it [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► starts off with jubilation lee becoming [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► an adoptive mother and taking care of a [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► baby interesting strange circumstances [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► and this motherly drive pushes her [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► narrative along and I found myself [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► thinking why why does it always have to [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► be Parenthood that provides you it is [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► here [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► that's a conversation that we had a very [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► talking about Doctor Who if you look at [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► the history of Doctor Who there are a [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► decent number of female villains in the [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► series which is kind of a cool thing [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► however it's a little bit alarming the [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► number of them that are motivated by [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► either maternal instinct or or something [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► that's specifically feminine yeah it's a [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► little fat to get back to bring them to [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► get back to put the comics on about [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► another one with my love for Gail Simone [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► she's one of the best riders out there [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► and i think that the rehab job she did [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► on birds of prey I think what DC Comics [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► did to all the characters that she [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► worked so hard to rehab I think that's [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► one of the biggest cultural crimes of [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► the last 10 years yeah and that's saying [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► a lot given what they what they've done [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► anybody to yeah yeah there's also did [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► you read our red hood and the outlaws [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► ya know [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► there's also willow Western willow [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► willow Wilson I'm i was i was going to [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► say something that some marvel as Miss [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► has ms marvel which is written by willow [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► Wilson which is a great comic with a [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► female protagonist sure I i hate to say [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► this though it's like every time I bring [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► up examples it's like I i think i can [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► call the examples because they're the [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► exception [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► he writes like there's the Captain [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► Marvel series that Kelly sue deconnick [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► rights and of course [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► ah saga by bryan cave on Fiona staples [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► does the are for that and they are very [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► much a collaborative set of storytellers [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► there but you know again I break a bond [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► works for women period because you look [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► at y the last man that was you know he [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► and Pia did all that great work together [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► and I think you can't underestimate the [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► impact of women behind the scenes I mean [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► if it weren't for Karen Berger you [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► wouldn't have vertigo and vertical [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► vertical was kind of the entryway for a [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► lot of women into comics you here and it [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► was a great way to slide sideways into [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► the the types and flight John rubee cuz [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► you know what once you find once you [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► find some crossover so you can follow [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► artists um you know if you go but one of [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► the things that you know obviously we [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► like to do on this podcast is talking [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► about the work so I you brought up an [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► interesting point there Lisa which is [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► are there things that that that all of [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► you you know individually found as as [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► something that pops out is as being like [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► oh this is this is actually for me the [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► speaks to me this is not exclusionary [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► what are those one of those things I'm [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► curious i'm interested in my my mind was [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► blown when Final Fantasy 6 came out I [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► mean this is a game that you know it [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► starts on Terra who is this be male [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► protagonist and she's hurting inside and [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► she's been she's been used by like this [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► evil this evil empire and have final [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► fantasy i know a lot of people like to [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► to bag on it but it is a series with [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► some of the most amazing female [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► protagonists in all of videogame history [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► and look at celess you look at look at [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► arm you know right up from final fantasy [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► for look at you look at teeth and [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► in fantasy 7 or you know there's in and [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► seeing this wonderful mix of beautiful [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► art of narrative of caring about [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► characters and seeing women is you know [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► agents and not a girlfriend that people [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► that were actually doing things it was [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► it was single-handedly like if i work in [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► game development today it is because i [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► was obsessed with those games as a child [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► and they spoke to me so so fiercely you [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► know Jason hope that happens with your [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► daughter [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► I mean yeah we need more women in the [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► ranks of game dad I'd love for something [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► to speak to her just that powerful she's [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► one of two girls in her tech class and [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► in middle school and she's but you know [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► what she loves it and she signed up for [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► for for next year too and it it actually [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► really makes me mad that her more [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► friends aren't in that class because it [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► does mean mean that she's you know one [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► of two or three instead of one of half [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► the class when you mentioned a videogame [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► protagonist I i love the fact that [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► portals protagonist is a woman and it [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► doesn't matter and that they just said [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► look Chelle is the protagonist and you [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► play this game as a woman and I mean I [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► that felt like a big middle finger to [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► man who don't get all right doubt bio [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► but i can't play as a woman [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► it's like it's a great game speaking of [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► that actually with what kind of my [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► biggest moment I think in that was video [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► game it was playing metroid metroid was [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► one of the first Nintendo games on the [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► old nes that I ever finished and like [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► completed I think before my brother even [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► did oh my god [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► and when you find a hope that you've [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► been playing as a woman this whole time [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► when you didn't know if I was just like [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► I mean yeah like the angels were singing [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► hosannas above my head [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► hallelujah it was it was amazing but [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► honestly that's the only the only thing [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► that I can point to that it was such a [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► light bulb moment I think I was really [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► really lucky in that I just sort of [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► consumed so much stuff and without even [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► recognizing it consciously I gravitated [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► towards the things that were a little [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► bit more i guess maybe not [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► female-centric even in the storylines [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► but they were written by women [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► even if I didn't necessarily know that [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► in the time when i moved to Canada I got [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► rid of almost all of my books boohoo [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► oh but the few the few that i saved our [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► on a shelf next to me and I actually I [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► didn't exactly do this on purpose but [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► just like they're really important [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► series that are sitting next to me are [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► Robin hobb and Julian may both of which [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► i didn't even know where women when i [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► read those books [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► oh my gosh all with Erica have you and I [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► talked about urgent need to do Julian a [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► podcast yet don't think so but I am in [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► argued because I i have lots of feelings [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► about the remote yard dynasty and I need [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► to explore them with somebody [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► ok oh my god dad really felt first [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► person I've met in real life who's read [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► these books i'm not kidding you I'm I'm [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► sitting right next to them you know [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► because I've got the Pleistocene i put [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► the police in epic downstairs and boxes [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► and I have to get another copy of the [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► jackal bodyless trilogy [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► oh wow anyway alright you put on the [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► list and written science fiction [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► actually is one of those areas where I [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► feel like they're worth [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► women's voices a lot longer and not only [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► did you have Giants in the field like [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► Ursula Gwyn writing science fiction [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► novel on the Shelf to but but you also [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► had of course all the women who were [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► writing underpin names and nobody knew [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► they were Andre Norton we'll never [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► underestimate the impact of Medellin [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► angle [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► no yeah oh yeah so she had both of those [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► I I did every now and then I blow [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► somebody away when I point out some Star [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► Trek fan that they'll know now i guess [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► there was a time when I would point out [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► the DC fontana who wrote the most [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► world-building important and was also up [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► I think she rewrote Gene Roddenberry [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► because he was not a very good writer up [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► that would be Fontana's a woman that's [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► Dorothy Fontana like what it's like yes [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► but but the fact that many women had to [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► take gender neutral or mail pen names [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► still my point is I felt like written [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► science fiction had maybe more more of [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► those voices then then TV or movies or [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► certainly video games have had [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► historically what's funny those the [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► x-men were actually the first thing I [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► thought was from all of us as yeah yeah [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► and in bear in mind this is even the [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► nineteen eighties when they [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► for the costumes are horrible and and [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► I'm I'm too young to have been [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► significantly invested in Jean Grey's [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► the character I've talked to women were [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► about 10 years older and they've talked [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► about the incredible sense of betrayal [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► that they felt / / how genes been [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► treating the comics off but Kitty [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► Pryde's my homegirl is at work and when [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► i started reading on when i started the [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► x-men I was 11 and she was just a few [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► years older and so she was kind of my [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► avatar so to speak and the New Mutants [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► comment came out not long after that and [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► that had a couple fantastic strong of [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► female protagonists where they were [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► protagonists having adventures first and [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► girls second and Domino well it was a [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► little like no no Danny prof star Sean [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► coin men [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► Alex you're talking about early as magma [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► God brought in and make but yeah I'm a [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► Reiki lihue they think that terrible [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► things of her [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► ileana the french community on and Kitty [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► Pryde has always been really interesting [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► and kind of nuanced yeah i was going to [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► say that as as a teenage boy or preteen [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► boy reading the x-men in the in the [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► eighties I I'll i love kitty pryde and [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► not just like every boy loves kitty [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► pryde but I love kitty pryde is a [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► character she was the wish fulfillment [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► care she was the Wesley Crusher of the [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► x-men and to have it be able to have it [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► be a girl was great and then the fact [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► that her relationship you know she has a [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► relationship to Colossus write to Pierre [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► bitchy that that's during and get away [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► from my kitty pryde anyway but also win [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► also but with with ileana right and the [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► fact that that I mean the bechdel test [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► we can talk about you know it's it's [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► it's a tool to point out some issues in [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► for some serious issues but I mean x-men [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► kitty and ileana's relationship was very [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► important and in fact in many ways [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► plot-wise it bridged it was the push and [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► pull between the new mutants and the [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► x-men for a while right and was so great [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► yes the X baby she used to call of the [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► other comic book series i want to give a [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► shout-out to because this is another one [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► where I felt it was it was genuinely [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► they were trying to do something [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► generally radical believe it is elfquest [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► by one day tricky i read through that [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► when i was 14 15 and I still circle back [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► to it and well [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► oh my god it's basically like what if to [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► blister at nineteen seventies hippie and [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► long-running saga about spacefaring [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► elves who crash-landed on the planet [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► interbreed with wolves and then run to [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► the crazy witch and it works and it has [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► it is literally every cent 70 science [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► fiction convention filk song only have [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► awesome awesome government got great [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► here but there's a lot of work done [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► looking at intergenerational [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► relationships there's a lot of work done [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► looking at complex and loving [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► relationships between men and complex [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► and loving relationships between women [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► and the content and you know [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► leadership is and restricted to one [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► gender arm and it's it's it's a great [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► series because you can find i think [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► almost everybody who reads it can find [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► somebody in there that they can they can [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► hang their hat on it it it it doesn't [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► impose and this is the hero he is a dude [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► whatever like in this case the sensible [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► hero the screaming qatar has a best [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► friend he loves more than life and and [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► has occasional sexual relationships [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► within else has a wife who is much [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► smarter much more talented than he is [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► and he knows that he's fine with it and [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► it's about this unconventional family [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► built together so there's just there's a [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► lot going on it and it's and they're [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► still writing it [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► they're still spitting it out but it was [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► it was I think it helps it wasn't tights [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► and flights again space for it helps to [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► crossbreed with Wolves back crazy while [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► we're on comics I oh I also when I just [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► kind of remembered something else when I [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► i came to comics pretty late and I I had [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► a girl that I worked with a number of [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► jobs ago who was sort of my comics guru [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► and i had already read Sandman but she [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► got me onto a bunch of other mostly [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► vertigo title since that was what I was [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► into and she's like oh you should try [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► some of the superhero stuff from Marvel [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► and I was like that's just really really [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► really doesn't really do it for me she [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► should you should try to hear and she [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► gave me a lius series about jessica [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► jones which in my mind I I didn't [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► realize that that there was that sort of [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► thing out there in [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► the marvel universe and it was just this [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► very fully developed character that you [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► got to know more and more as service she [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► was getting to know herself soon to be a [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► netflix television series i think [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► clearly i think i think that's I think [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► jessica jones is one of the characters [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► who they're rolling into those three [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► different series they're doing for [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► netflix the Marvel of Marvel's doing for [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► them you know Runaways at by ended it [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► there is bryan cave on again but [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► Runaways is a is an ensemble series with [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► a lot of strong women characters ya ya [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► ya know a if we can go back to x-men for [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► a second yes [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► Davis ism love exit but i don't think [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► that this is a really good microcosm [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► into a kind of a fallacy that I think a [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► lot of guys have when we're talking [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► about issues including women and geek [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► culture [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► um you know I'm speaking mostly for [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► myself here [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► I'm i love the x-men and I have fierce [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► feelings about psylocke Jean Grey [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► jubilee kitty like all of them [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► um you know in my favorite era when I [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► really started reading it was when Jim [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► Lee could use a little bit before [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► generally took over launched like just [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► the x-men comic not the uncanny x-men [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► comic and I feel like so often when we [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► talk about these issues um just we focus [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► on exactly one thing like what does the [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► woman looked like it she's sexy she's [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► too sexy how big is her or her boobs you [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► know how does our ass look as her [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► costume too tight you know and we we [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► spend so much time talking about this um [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► I don't know about you guys but when I [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► think about why i love the x-men the in [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► specifically female characters of the [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► accident doesn't have anything to do [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► with you know what their costumes are [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► it's about who they are as people as [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► individuals you like when psylocke is [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► really struggling with you her own [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► identity after going through the siege [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► perilous like you know that was [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► something i could identify with you [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► Jubilees teenage angst I could identify [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► with that myself and I feel like all too [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► often [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► and we end up talking about women that [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► are geek fixtures in this purely sexual [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► way and I think it's like the most male [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► conversation you can never have because [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► it's just about evaluating women by [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► their looks and I just would really love [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► for geek culture to move beyond that [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► because personally I love looking at [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► gorgeous women drawn well like when Jim [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► Lee drew psylocke and Jean Grey and [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► storm [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► I think that's just unbelievably great [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► art and I don't know how you guys feel I [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► think you make a great point [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► yeah it's also as a you know as these [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► III it's very easy to listen to the [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► conversation and say well what they're [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► really saying is they need more things [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► that are all being a by women for women [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► starting women all that it's like you [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► know what actually I think what we're [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► saying is that it's a richer and more [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► fulfilling piece of work if it actually [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► is based in some level of reality like [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► the fact that the world we live in is [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► richer for having men and women both in [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► it as actors and people who have agency [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► and that's what when I look at something [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► like like Runaways or III something like [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► buffy the vampire slayer' and those are [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► both examples of works written by men [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► but they are a rich ensemble of [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► characters who have interactions with [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► each other the women aren't there to be [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► sex symbols they are they are integrated [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► into the entire story and they all [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► interact with each other as people and [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► you know that's that's it's kind of [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► really sad that I have to make that [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► statement but you know there are lots of [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► examples where the women are not there [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► to do and you mentioned read that [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► infamous red hood and the outlaws comic [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► but there are lots of other examples [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► by the way I love that are the guy that [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► that art came from [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► I Scotland down study a lot with jay [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► scott campbell if you look at the art of [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► my game revolution 60 I've stayed the [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► hell out of j scott campbell he's had a [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► huge influence in my work and it's all [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► about intent there like many threats red [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► hood and the outlaws is really [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► interesting comment because you know [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► what's her name is a Starfire and [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► our fire yeah yeah Starfire she's [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► becomes an interesting complex character [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► and later books but they just portray [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► her sis sex symbol from the beginning so [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► again it's not in speaking for me it's [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► not the sex it's not the being portrayed [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► as someone this beautiful it's the male [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► gaze is the intent like is this woman [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► just here to look at my my recollection [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► I did read a lot of the old issues of [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► Teen Titans but there was that your teen [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► titans was really trying to be the CDC's [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► x-men and my understanding is that that [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► character was I mean you could have been [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► actively trying to have it both ways but [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► she's sexy she's also supposed to be [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► because of her attitude toward humans [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► and people and sex and things like that [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► she's actually supposed to be kind of [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► transgressive and I don't know whether [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► you'd say that she was satirical or [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► whether she's supposed to be challenging [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► a lot of except at what we accept and [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► you know again she was supposed to be [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► more than just the one thing and I'm i'm [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► sure it was done better after the [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► eighties but you know again I feel like [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► they were trying to have it both ways [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► but there was at least some aspect of [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► her that was meant to be [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► not you know they were supposed to be [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► another level [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► yeah it comes across as very Heinlein [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► and 98 that's a big theme with timeline [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► but it's always can I just wouldn't buy [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► this dirty old man you know [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► yeah they did the Heinlein highline it [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► was that you know you're exactly right i [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► read when I was in high school I read I [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► will fear no evil which is on one level [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► this kind of fascinating book about [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► gender norms and all that because it's [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► about like an old rich guy who needs a [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► new body and he gets his brain put in a [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► female body but on another level it's [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► really not [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► mm no I got 30 seconds into it i love [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► Heinlein moon is a harsh mistress is my [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► favorite novel and I couldn't even make [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► it through 30 pages of that it was so [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► offensive [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► so you're right because it's the second [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► level completely undercuts the first [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► level and it's well it's like he wrote [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► he wrote a book [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► didn't I just read an article about this [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► later in life that was very was like a [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► planet where the the white people are [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► enslaved by the black people and it's [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► like supposed to be this see we need to [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► all get along and rate as raised as [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► races and we're all equal man [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► except on another level it is the worst [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► racial stereotyping you will ever see [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► right so since a level to just [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► completely blows away any potential [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► cleverness of level 1 so by the way I it [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► in our chat room i posted a link to the [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► x-men women poster that i actually did [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► possess when I was a teenager and all i [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► have to say is I'm so very sorry [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► this is one of the problems with the [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► x-men and stuff its marketing all the [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► lease at the same reaction I had to [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► watching it now which is the most [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► offensive thing is that rogue has a [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► person stars and bars confederate flag [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► towel at the swimming pool [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► what is she thinking it's not even [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► well-drawn no it's no it's really on [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► what about that didn't that didn't I [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► didn't that's not a keeper [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► I kept some of my posters from that era [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► that was recycled speaking of movie [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► posters that is one of the the places [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► that I think we still see this obnoxious [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► you know that the hoses on mom's ya [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► comic covers however i would like to [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► point out that the hobbit the desolation [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► of smaug had one poster that I mean ok [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► so the hobbit had no women it to start [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► with so they had they had a female [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► character [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► yeah I'm good for them for that and [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► there is a great great poster that has [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► torial and legolas on the posters just [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► the two of them and tutorials in this [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► badass pose i can't remember what she's [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► doing with her weapon but like she's [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► looking stuff and then you've got less [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► kind of in the background doing the butt [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► pose [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► it's totally backwards and i love it [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► it's so great i think that's what i [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► liked about the avengers movie posters [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► will let came out and everybody probably [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► flip the script and started [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► photoshopping their own are online and [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► pushed back and so just say yes it is [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► totally natural to have every male [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► adventure doing something which implies [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► there man of action while the Black [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► Widow shows us that she doesn't eat [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► carbs and it was a sign that it is that [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► it is getting better because we see this [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► pushback people are starting to notice [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► it i mean you know they're there is push [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► back but how many more boobies have you [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► gone to this year where women have been [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► Smurf added spider-man to fail you know [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► Captain America to fail new x-men movie [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► ok doesn't totally fail but fails you [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► know and I was kind of disappointed the [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► new x-men movie precisely because I I i [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► thought you know if you're going to go [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► to all this trouble top-up I should say [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► I [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► love the movie yeah and I thought you [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► know I fog mystique was fantastic and i [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► like that they basically make her the [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► force for chaos witness it as opposed to [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► Charles and and Eric's 10 your breakup [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► but I'm here [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► oh come on it but what everybody got [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► together already [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► but you know if not exactly but you know [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► if you're going to go to all this [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► trouble to come on there could be there [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► could be more Lady use the seventies who [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► could have done something you know I [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► felt like I am interested in your [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► comment about the captain america movie [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► because I thought that the captain [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► america movie The Black Widow came off [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► pretty well in that in that she didn't [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► she was not i mean there there is you [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► can actually feel it in the theater I [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► felt it within myself there is this [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► thing like we'll wait a second [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► she's a woman in the superhero movie [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► they got a pair up with somebody there's [TS]

00:56:07 ◼   ► going to be some sort of thing and all [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► that and you know they don't play that [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► game she is AKA comrade of steve rogers [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► and I have no objection to how they [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► portrayed her moving my objection is a [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► Smurfette her and what I mean by [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► Smurfette her is in video games in comic [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► books there's one woman i I'm so damn [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► sick of this rumor has it that they're [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► gonna make a captain marvel movie that [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► there's one in development potentially [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► with the with the actual modern female [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► captain marvel which would be awesome [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► that would be that would be nice to see [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► to be honest if they were to reboot [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► agents of shield and basically make it [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► Melinda may and her awesome badass [TS]

00:56:48 ◼   ► backup and i would totally watch that [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► because that was my favorite character [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► on that show this year I don't think [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► we're going to do that to I honestly [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► thought the resolution was going to be [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► that it wasn't actually Coulson which [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► didn't turn out to be the case and that [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► they say look like regular need to do a [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► year and then we'll just hand it off and [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► it'll be molded amazed all-stars [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► I don't know maybe the maybe you know [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► maybe Briana the bar is so low that I [TS]

00:57:10 ◼   ► was just relieved that that that the [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► Black Widow was portrayed competently as [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► a professional even though she was [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► smurfette and that she didn't [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► immediately go weak at the knees over [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► the winter soldier who has a long-lost [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► Red Room boyfriend or whatever I was [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► really glad that we dodged that bullet [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► because I was worried we were going to [TS]

00:57:28 ◼   ► get there [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► there's a tiny yeah there's a tiny [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► cynical part of me that thinks the [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► reason they threw her into captain [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► america 2 with something they can [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► sidestep any well we don't need to make [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► a Black Widow movie because she's it she [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► pops up these other ones [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► whereas i would love to see a black [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► would definitely I think it'd be great [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► you could argue that the captain america [TS]

00:57:48 ◼   ► movie isn't a captain america movie it's [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► a shield movie [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► yeah and that and therefore all the [TS]

00:57:53 ◼   ► shield people are in it and she's a [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► SHIELD person [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► yeah but yeah other than that Hawkeye [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► and i can only assume he's posing for [TS]

00:57:59 ◼   ► posters or something [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► well this is the star trek argument [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► right cuz Star Trek was given so much [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► credit rightfully so for being [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► incredibly diverse but if you look at [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► that cast now the original cast [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► it's like well they had one woman had [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► one black person the same person but [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► we'll just put those together and then [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► they had mr. Sulu and then yeah that was [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► it so and then a supernumeraries right [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► there yet that was groundbreaking at the [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► time but I i think i think Star Trek is [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► such a good example of how geek culture [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► uses a male ruler to evaluate things and [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► doesn't even think about it [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► um my favorite star track by miles and [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► miles and miles and miles is Star Trek [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► Voyager you have you have a kick-ass [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► extremely complicated interesting [TS]

00:58:49 ◼   ► captain you have a female engineer who [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► is wrestling with her Klingon side in a [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► really interesting way you have [TS]

00:58:59 ◼   ► okay Cass isn't that great you found [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► seven of nine who I would put up against [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► Spock I would put up against any other [TS]

00:59:07 ◼   ► character in all of Star Trek history [TS]

00:59:10 ◼   ► ever is probably the best character in [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► all star trac been awesome at her job [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► deadly competent awesome character art [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► great plots about her but it's held up [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► and there's no star trek this more hated [TS]

00:59:25 ◼   ► than Blecher even enterprise which is [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► amazing to me that I don't agree with [TS]

00:59:30 ◼   ► that I together president we were [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► someplace here but ya know but you're [TS]

00:59:33 ◼   ► right in phantom it's probably area it [TS]

00:59:35 ◼   ► is so pilloried it is so blasted and [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► it's my favorite [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► yeah it's my favorite too we don't even [TS]

00:59:42 ◼   ► talk [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► about seven of nine as a character i'm [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► on the other side of that are ya i don't [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► i just got the stories were dome I [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► wasn't the characters and yeah like the [TS]

00:59:50 ◼   ► story's already the series finale [TS]

00:59:53 ◼   ► oh that was the book that was the worst [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► yeah I felt like they really jipped [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► Janeway and I felt like in a way that [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► kind of punished her for being who she [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► was because [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► was because [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► as the guy who'd been repeated the blood [TS]

01:00:01 ◼   ► pictures for the whole series runs off [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► with the ex cyborg so she can give him [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► the emotional fulfillment he needs and I [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► thought that's a message to send that a [TS]

01:00:10 ◼   ► woman can gosh the community goes again [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► sorry you re a hopeful sign language its [TS]

01:00:18 ◼   ► kind of language with right return [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► language to set this message to send it [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► you know women can have a career or she [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► could have a feeling personal life but [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► she doesn't get to have both and yeah [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► and that's never ever something that [TS]

01:00:30 ◼   ► comes up for any of the men on the [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► series i I've never thought about that [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► and watch the episode hundred times [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► you're absolutely right card can be a [TS]

01:00:38 ◼   ► hard leader Kurt can be a hard later if [TS]

01:00:41 ◼   ► Janeway makes hard decisions [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► what does she end up evil in the end in [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► alone in dead alone [TS]