The Talk Show

23: More Useful and Less Horrible, with Dan Frommer


  you're a good piece on the on the ipad

  mini I thought that you would you know

  you you ordered one showed up you used

  it for a couple days you wrote about it

  and was the headline something like this

  is the real ipad-based yeah and I

  thought that really bad that guy that

  really was like a bull's-eye canned and

  don't you think that the consensus on

  that has been remarkably strong almost

  everyone who's responded has been like

  yeah totally I agree a few people you

  know stink the the bigger one is still

  the the best the best one but most

  people I think it's one of those things

  were and are few rotor someone but once

  you feel it you know you know you use it

  for a few days and you're like oh my arm

  is not tired after holding this for five

  hours you know something like that is

  just using it today out and about and

  it's easy to tuck into a jacket pocket

  if I need to or my back packets don't

  you know you don't even know it's there

  and it's great i think that what it will

  resurface though I think as this idea

  that maybe this mini sized iPad is the

  one that's best for most people as it

  starts to sink in as more and more

  people get their hands on them and it

  you know this idea resonate it's going

  to resurface the argument about whether

  iPads are for creation or consumption or

  you know only consumption and I think

  the reason that for me it's a better

  form factor is that i personally do like

  I and people want to call me a hypocrite

  for this but i personally have always

  used the ipad mostly for consumption

  lots and lots of reading and

  occasionally video like baseball season

  I watch a lot of video on the ipad i

  think this is a great form factor for

  consumption but I'm also a very strong

  proponent of the fact that there are a

  lot of people who are using their iPads

  as their computer to create stuff to do

  work and I think for them there that's

  the people who are still going to want

  the big ipad and I and I think that's

  absolutely true and that's why they

  should continue to have multiple sizes

  of ipad that makes sense and i think

  it's a situation where you know when

  they release

  at two-and-a-half years ago they had no

  idea how many people would use it and

  what they would use it for and it turns

  out that a hundred million people have

  wanted to use it and they use it for all

  kinds of different stuff you know I i

  assume you your workflow is a lot like

  mine where we we really get the benefit

  from having a physical keyboard and

  multiple browser tabs open but if

  someone is is doing a lot of email and

  and that's about it for work

  the big ipad is a great laptop

  replacement I try to do my job on on an

  iPad it just wasn't wasn't cutting it

  for the things that I do love using the

  ipad for reading in bed reading books

  you know I i put on the machine when i'm

  at the gym and I either watch video or I

  read or something like that

  this new size is really perfect for that

  just walking around the house like I not

  you know there's two spots where i do or

  you know where I'm at

  when I'm in my house i'm either at my

  desk in my office chair with my big boy

  keyboard and a mac and my big display

  and I'm working or for me effectively on

  anywhere else in the house and it

  doesn't matter whether it's bed or

  whether it's the couch or whether I'm in

  the kitchen making coffee waiting for

  the water to boil and I'm just standing

  there any of those other spots other

  than sitting in this office chair my

  desk at the ipad mini is a better form

  factor is going to like what I'm

  standing up its really when it's just

  fantastic just to have it in one hand

  and I'm standing right now so and I'm

  waving it around

  oh but it's something with it but now

  completely agree there's some little

  things though that I want to ask you


  ok so for example stereo sound which you

  know people male probably a little

  bigger deal out of it than they should

  have it's not that big of a deal but

  it's it's set up for portrait but when I

  want stereo sound i'm usually in

  landscape watching a video you think

  that's intentional or do you think

  they'll ever be like a left and right

  sound for video or is that just kind of

  stereo almost there by accident

  yeah that's actually curious and I

  actually didn't even know that I don't

  remember if they mentioned it on on

  and the event or what but I'm so used to

  all iOS devices being mono even though

  they all look like they've even I think

  all the way back to the original iphone

  they all look like they have two

  speakers at the bottom but don't you can

  icon all the iphones you can just cover

  up the one side is usually the left side

  and then all the sound stops coming out

  the right side is like a microphone or

  something like that they just for

  aesthetic purposes make the two sides

  look the same well that ends up with the

  ipad mini they are both speakers and I

  didn't know that until after my review

  came out I don't think they mentioned it

  all until it was in some and folks told

  some of the reviewers or I think Josh

  Topolsky at the verge was the one who

  called it out in his review and it was

  funny one of the funny part about that

  is that amazon has this is sort of

  infamous checklist up on their homepage

  complete trying to favorably compared

  the kindle fire HD 7 to the ipad mini

  and one of the things that they had up

  was stereo speakers and you know they

  had that as a check for them in the next

  for the ipad and ipad mini ends up it

  does have stereo speakers i'm with you

  though that it doesn't really make much

  of a difference though I think one of

  the reasons you know that stereo never

  really mattered on these devices is

  what's the difference if you have stereo

  sound if the speakers are only three

  quarters of an inch apart right if it's

  not actually wider apart than your head

  you're not going to get a stereo effect

  I mean it's like people don't even seem

  to realize how stereo sound works the

  thing for me has always been as I'm

  watching video which is you know

  probably i would guess at least a

  quarter of the time I spend with an ipad

  i'm probably watching the video or maybe

  you know somewhere in that range

  I'm holding it in landscape mode and the

  sound is you know very clearly off to

  one side right it's not kind of pushing

  toward both ears and I've not going to

  cup your hand to push it backwards

  almost so it becomes more neutral but

  it's not at all

  so that's where having one of those

  little speakers at what's effectively

  the top and the bottom of the device

  might be more useful but i don't know

  maybe that's weird then you got you how

  many speakers you need three or four

  something like that then you're getting


  motorola territory

  yeah I i guess and i know i forget i

  don't think certainly not the first

  person to speculate along these lines

  but as people realize that the mini does

  have stereo speakers I i guess that it's

  to get the to increase the volume of


  I don't mean the loudness I mean know

  that that with such a small device to

  get enough sound out of it needs two

  speakers and if you're gonna have two

  speakers why not make them stereo sure

  yeah makes sense but I do kind of agree

  III and in fact I'll just say this as i

  say this i I've actually not even

  verified that it is stereo and it's not

  to two speakers playing mono hottie and

  I honestly don't even know and like you

  said most of the time when I'm listening

  to the speaker's it's because it's

  playing video and if it's playing video

  I'm holding it horizontally in which

  case both speakers are on the same side

  i typically the right side because

  that's the side that that's where the

  speakers will go if you fold up the

  smart cover and again what's the point

  of having left and right stereo if both

  speakers are on the right side other

  than to increase the amount of actual

  sound coming out of this tiny little


  yep and then and then little weird

  question number two I had was so this

  this is using the effectively the same

  display panel as the iphone 3gs that

  pixels-per-inch level so when i do

  assume make they eventually have a

  retina mini do they use the pixels per

  inch of the iphone which is higher than

  the ipad with retina or do they go to

  the ipad is the many all the sudden have

  like the best screen ever and the ipad

  the full-size ipad with retina looks bad

  next to it yes I don't know i don't

  think it will go because i think that

  there's the sort of argument that at

  once you're in that range sure you're

  going to look and you probably hold the

  bigger device a little further away from

  your face but I don't think they would

  hesitate know the way that they will go

  retina is exactly the way they've done


  with all other devices which is the

  physical size stays the same and the

  pixels per inch doubles which means that

  they'll switch to the exact same pixels

  per inch of as the iphone and ipod touch

  makes sense there's didn't you know

  switching to the DPI of the big ipad

  makes no sense because then you'd have a

  different pixel count you Dave

  developers would have to actually resize

  you know do work on the right well

  that's gonna be amazing that's going to

  be right killer

  yeah and then I also kind of wonder you

  know obviously there's some bleep in

  technology that let them make it so thin

  and light it's not just that it's

  smaller although it plays a role but

  it's interesting to me they did not take

  that step and make the bigger one with

  the same kind of whatever that is

  at the same time but I guess you know

  alternate these things one year to the

  next and yeah i think that that is a

  good point of a great listed of

  questions here dan I thought about a lot

  of this stuff i think the explanation

  there is the ecosystem surrounding

  peripherals which is ok so a lot of

  people who have already bought the ipad

  3 in the seven months where it was

  available or kind of butthurt about the

  fact that hate seven months later or if

  you bought it let's say you only bought

  the damn thing in august or something

  like that

  two months later it's already been

  replaced by something twice as fast and

  we know why would Apple do that blah

  blah blah but the one thing that they

  haven't done is disrupt any of the

  people making cases or covers or

  anything that is based on the physical

  dimensions of the device true which it

  there's a lot and that's you know

  christmas is coming up and that's going

  to be a big time for those things right

  so I think and I think you'll be able to

  compare as we head towards the holidays

  here and thanksgiving is ramping up as

  to which device has the most peripherals

  available for the full-size iPad or the

  ipad mini and I think it's pretty clear

  it's going to be the full-size iPad

  whereas if the ipad for was thinner in

  addition to just being faster than the

  ipad 3 it would be stuck in the same

  boat as the ipad

  many energy this dearth of peripheral

  peripherals available for it

  that makes total sense you are you using

  the smart cover with yours

  I am and I've seen it was it you who

  said you're just going to toss around a

  bag no cover

  well I did write that I'm a little scary

  right the idea that big screen

  I when I put it in my bag i think i'll

  keep using the case but like I had in my

  pocket yesterday I want to pick up

  dinner and I just went case looks like

  it was totally fine i almost feels like

  this covers almost unnecessary it so

  it's it's not even that heavy or that

  bulky it's just I don't know i've been

  using it with the cover and I don't know

  I don't know why

  I'll tell you what one reason why is

  that I do tend to i tend to treat the

  loaner units from Apple even more

  carefully than I treat the ones that I

  bought with my own money because i don't

  know it's like that the Catholic guilt

  in me that I i would feel absolutely

  horrible if I send this thing back to

  them in a week or two and it's a head

  like scratches on the glass and you know

  I mean and I don't even know why that is

  because I know it's not like I think

  that when you send these reviewing its

  back to Apple that you know poor little

  apple needs did you know they really

  need every single one of these minis it

  goes right to the apple store right

  under the sales show but i don't know

  it's just the way I am is if I've got I

  always treat somebody else's thing in my

  possession better than I would even

  treat my own that's just how I was

  brought up if you've borrowed something

  from somebody it you'd really need to

  give it back to them in the exact

  condition that they gave it to you

  whether it's your pal man who gave it to

  you or whether it's apple the you know

  400 gazillion dollar corporation you

  treat other people stuff with respect so

  I keep the cover on but I do have to

  admit that it putting the cover on it

  does make me feel though that I'm

  missing out on the thinnest right this

  remarkable thickness of it it's not as

  dramatic as the first ipad with that

  huge neoprene wetsuit but it's still and

  it's the same reason that I have never

  put my iphones in a case because i feel

  like i hear ya but it's not almost think

  of this thing is more of like a big

  iphone them and then a laptop or

  something like that but we'll see we'll

  see how it plays out

  I don't want obviously don't want this

  going to scratch that would be earliest

  too much the back is already a little

  scratch but that's ok i do think i think

  that the cover on this new Smart Cover

  folds over a little better than the

  original one does she still my ipad 3 /

  4 like that thing mine falls off

  constant I i still feel though that when

  you have it folded over that last panel

  it's you know a little flippy floppy in

  its it when you're just sitting there

  reading something long for a long

  stretch holding anything in your hand

  it's better without a cover on

  definitely i did figure i just took me


  I don't know why it's one of those

  things that once you think about it

  seems very obvious but for it took me

  forever to figure this out was when the

  ipad first came out I was very confused

  why they put the volume and mute oggle

  on the other side as opposed to you know

  making it like a big iphone and putting

  them on the left and of course it's

  because when you put a cover on this

  thing that spine is on the left and the

  buttons would be covered up

  yeah you want it almost as those book

  style covers which I i think they make

  for the phone but I wouldn't but then

  that makes me wonder why they didn't

  know why they didn't put those buttons

  on the right side of the iphone to start

  I don't know you know what I bet there's

  an answer to that question though I'm

  I'll bet there is too

  I don't know but how do you think iOS

  shot you know does it come through on

  this thing it some of the like the home

  screen icons they feel like they could

  be a little bigger but it seems like

  they've tried not to disturb the ipad

  flavor of iOS at all it is

  pixel for pixel exactly the same like I

  don't think I I honestly I haven't

  double-checked with any of my developer

  friends I don't even know if there is

  any supported way for a nap to figure

  out that it's running on an ipad mini

  you know that all the app knows is that

  the screen is 1024 x 768 and the

  guidelines from Apple about laying stuff

  out is all about these points and that

  it's all the same that I really don't

  think Apple wants anybody to do anything

  different for the mini than for the

  full-size iPad i think early on i think

  you're right i think Marco Arment was to

  it was tweeting about trying to reverse

  engineer at how to make that work is

  something like does not have retina

  screw something about the resolution and

  there was some other feature that

  yeah and maybe like something about the

  cpu performance or something I don't

  know there must be some there's probably

  some way that you can figure it out just

  by like deduction that if i send this in

  this then it has to be a mini it's not

  the ipad 2 and I could see you know an

  instant papers are perfect to appt

  example or maybe the default font size

  should be a little bigger in terms of

  actual points on the mini and on the

  full-size iPad for a couple of reasons a

  the actual physical size of the screen

  and then be the fact that it's not

  retina means that you kind of want funds

  to be a little bigger so i can see that

  but I'd seems like apple doesn't want

  you to do that and they do haven't done

  anything like that you know the home

  screen i think it's exactly the same

  yep yeah it works it works though

  so another thing I want to ask you about

  you don't you don't mind is the sum of

  the changes that you know might

  anticipate that that the new crew at

  Apple might put into iOS one of the one

  of the things i was thinking you know is

  that is there any low-hanging fruit in

  terms of either where the iOS where the

  OS itself goes or you know they not so

  much the whole are they gonna deskew

  more for the apps or anything like that

  but would you expect the experience

  itself is going to change dramatically

  in the next few years or is it going to

  stay largely the same i really don't

  know I can see it both ways my first

  instinct is to say i don't think it's

  going to change at all i think that

  they've defined what this is people are

  very comfortable with it i think the

  reason that people are so happy

  switching to it in droves you know and

  clearly if you just look at the wrong

  numbers they're not you know they're

  getting people who weren't previously


  your customers they're you know they're

  getting people who were you know using

  Windows I think it's this Simpson

  implicitly of experience that there just

  doesn't seem to be much that hidden from

  you and I don't know how that could

  change very much

  it just doesn't seem like there is much

  to change it seems like people have seen

  how radically android has had to change

  itself just to make itself more useful

  and less horrible but it seems like they

  they they want to force that notion of

  radical change on to apple in iOS which

  if you could if you've been using a mac

  for the last 20 years

  Arthur really isn't that much to

  different you know there's this is the

  menu at the top there's folders there's

  windows and that kind of stuff it just

  seems like expecting that sort of

  radical change in the general area of

  the operating system doesn't make sense

  no i don't think so either and i also

  think that it really does matter what

  you start with conceptually as you

  evolve because it's really hard to add

  things later on in my favorite example

  of this and I've talked about this i

  don't know how long ago but i know is on

  this the the talk show but my favorite

  example of that is the stuff that they

  introduced in Lyon think it was lying

  when they introduced launchpad and

  Mission Control in mac OS 10 to use any

  of that stuff no I haven't either

  I and I think big part of it is is that

  they weren't there from the beginning

  and their tacked on and so they're sort

  of outside the original concept of what

  you are going to have and they just

  don't fit and and i'll go back further

  to two spaces and I think now they don't

  really talk about spaces that much I

  kind of can't consider that part of

  Mission Control but spaces and Mac os10

  just have never worked as well as I

  think they do on other GUI systems that

  are designed from the get go to have

  multiple desktops it just has never

  seems right to me what you know

  is it the whole app is in this thing is

  it just the window just all seems kinda

  tacked on and i'm not saying that it was

  a mistake to add it but I'm saying it

  just shows how difficult it is to add

  conceptual level additions and changes

  to something once it's been set and I

  feel like iOS is even simpler than the

  original mac that's just this basic idea

  of you know to there's really just two

  levels there's the home screen which is

  a list of apps and then you're in an app

  and the app gets the whole screen and if

  you want to go back to hit this big

  button at the bottom and that's it and

  there's a few exceptions to that you

  know there's the when you're on the home

  you go to the left of the first home

  screen and there's that spotlight search

  which doesn't really it's sort of

  outside those simple simple rules of

  engagement where are you when you're

  doing that but it doesn't seem to be

  confusing you know it's not really it

  that it's worth stretching the rules of

  the thing

  Cirie is outside these this simple rule

  that you're either at the home screen or

  in a nap but it's like it's almost like

  an entirely separate mode to using your


  I just don't see them changing that very

  much you know and eventually it will get

  old I don't know how long now I think

  it's got a lot of legs in front of it i

  think that's right

  one thing that I think about because

  it's kind of personal problem in my

  house is sharing these things and

  whether that's you know sharing an ipad

  that's kind of been retired and is not

  like the house ipad and there's no my

  wife and I have different obviously

  different email accounts and different

  accounts for other things and then even

  just sinking multiple even just thinking

  multiple iphones and ipads to the same

  mac which I guess I cloud kind of his I

  think this ipad is the first thing that

  I'm just never going to sync to my Mac

  its i set it up completely from scratch

  on iCloud and it's never been plugged

  into a mac and I think I never will plug

  it into a mac but even like we got

  iphone 5 on a month in a month ago or so

  and just

  trying to restore from backup off of the

  itunes app on the mac like half of my

  apps on my phone were somehow a

  registered to my wife's itunes account

  and vice versa so every time we try to

  upgrade app so if the delete half of

  them and and reinstall them from scratch

  with the right itunes account and it's

  just like you know I I don't think I did

  anything wrong i'm kind of nerd you know

  setting these things up but there hasn't

  doesn't seem to have been much thought

  put into the idea of sharing these

  things and and just this whole idea of

  an itunes household like my itunes match

  account is sitting on my imac with the

  whole family's music hooked up to it yet

  and I don't even know if I can have

  someone else's ipad or iphone sync to

  that it's just it's not like they're

  doing this you know that it's not like

  they're just not thinking about it all

  but I think that as as more families

  have multiple iOS devices and maybe

  fewer max going forward I think more

  thought could be put into this and

  hopefully i think is it budgets do that

  I think it's a very hard problem to

  solve a but i do i agree though that

  you're onto something there that it to

  me and that would be the biggest change

  and it's not the sort of thing that like

  people who are looking for

  Wow as soon as I booted up this new

  iphone from 2013 it looks totally

  different you're not going to get that

  but I feel like a major a major thing

  that they could work on is look here's a

  brand-new iphone here's my itunes email


  here's my password now make it exactly

  like my old one was and do it fast and I

  feel like they're I feel like it's

  gotten better and better especially with

  iCloud but it is nowhere near good

  enough in my opinion like I think it

  should be like when I back up my mac

  with super duper it's the backup drive

  is just a clone of my startup drive and

  so if I unmount my actual startup drive

  and instead mount from my SuperDuper

  clone my mac looks exactly like it was

  when I backed it up and I think they

  don't have that yet

  with iOS and I i I'm not even I I don't

  see what the argument is why they

  shouldn't like you said like sometimes

  you be restored from backup and it's

  like half your apps are there and half

  aren't and yeah they were you know some

  some weird ones would show up where they

  just be not registered to the right

  itunes account and i just it the the

  same with Apple was always you know it

  just works and and that's still true for

  the most part but sometimes it doesn't

  work at all it's in it's infuriating but

  it just isn't that easy to get back to

  where you were it's good that you have

  these iCloud backups but it just doesn't

  seem right

  I don't know and it doesn't you know

  doesn't have ever to have all your


  it's weird like some of the passwords

  there and some are in and i don't quite

  get it there's not quite a logic or a

  rhyme and reason to it and I you know I

  guess I run into this more often than

  most people because I get these review

  units or I gonna buy one of everything

  and so it feels like every couple months

  i'm setting up a new iPad and I want all

  my stuff over and it's not just always

  seems like it takes longer and more

  steps than then it should

  that's actually an opportunity for

  microsoft in this space as they're

  trying to gain traction both in the

  phone and tablet market at the same time

  is that as they're pushing windows phone

  8 and Windows 8 44 touch devices they're

  they're launching now in this era of

  where everybody sort of expects

  everything to backup and restore to the

  cloud and and they've got their you know

  whatever they call windows live api's

  whatever they call it but they have

  these api's that app developers for

  Windows Phone and Windows can just

  assume ur there and assume are going to

  work for storing data and progress and

  stuff like that

  ah and there's a very I you know and

  we'll see how it works as these devices

  rollout and and people use them but as

  is the way I understand it should be a

  lot more seamless on windows like if you

  start playing a game on a windows phone


  you got a new phone and you login with

  your windows ID and you launch that game

  it it almost certainly should have

  everything you've done all of your safe

  levels everything you've done the the

  app doesn't have to do anything special

  to do that it's like if it's just

  storing the data the way it's supposed

  to be storing the data it's going into

  your windows live account and I feel

  like iOS is behind in that regard and I

  feel like part of it is that it launched

  in this you know in 2007 with the

  original iphone in this area that was

  still like the tail end of the sinking

  devices to your Mac or PC era as opposed

  to assuming that the cloud is there it's

  funny how that you know that Microsoft

  has long had this advantage of such a

  huge footprint with windows and you know

  I always thought this would be just just

  a huge advantage especially over apple

  in mobile because they already have all

  your stuff and they often have your

  email with hotmail and increasingly they

  have your recreation with the xbox and

  they just never really took advantage of

  that you know part of it was always that

  the windows mobile software was just you

  know five years behind everyone else's

  butt and now this is a real opportunity

  for them to kind of reset that I I just

  don't know if they will once again

  yeah I don't know there's definitely an

  opportunity for them now and I feel like

  it's a much better and deeper i'm not

  saying that it doesn't resonate

  instantly liked that did like right

  seems to me like they're trying to sell

  surface as look this thing has a

  keyboard that it's meant to work with

  that give you really you know if you

  wish your ipad had a keyboard you should

  get this and I can see how that

  resonates and I see people in airports

  with their iPads jerry-rigged with these

  crazy you know

  ipad keyboard hardware stuff did he

  bought a surface now I did not buy 1i

  don't think I'm going to I think I've

  seen enough to sort of Judge it and and

  I I that if i bought it i think I don't

  think I've ever really use I'm

  definitely curious and you know but i

  think an hour playing with it was

  enough for me but I do I just feel like

  conceptually they've got something where

  the whole thing is cloud-based that

  they've got the this sort of the day

  they've got a middle ground between

  Apple and Google where Google everything

  is cloud-based but primarily through the

  web you know that PAP know people using

  gmail through a web browser and apple

  has the apps the local apps you know and

  they all the advantages of native apps

  but they don't have the cloud thing I

  feel like there's a middle ground

  therefore win for windows where you get

  native apps with ubiquitous cloud

  storage and then everything syncs


  yeah in theory in theory it's one of

  those things where if they had all this

  you know four years ago

  for example i think a lot of people

  would be really really impressed with it

  and i would totally bought a surface for

  five years ago but they're just every

  time it seems like they're you know

  they're playing catch-up here like what

  you when they did the zune it was not a

  bad idea but they copied the wrong ipod

  you know they did it by the time the

  zune came out everyone was on to the

  mini and the nano and it'd be the you

  know basically last year's ipod and and

  it seems like the surface is is almost

  like last year's ipad and that they're

  not really ahead of the game I the first

  kind of PDA i bought was was the palm

  five but then notnot too long after that

  I bought one of those windows ce e del

  axioms remember that and it was it was a

  really really really impressive tiny

  little piece of hardware and I I you

  know I was all mac at that point i'd had

  never owned a windows computer but I was

  like wow this is really cool microsoft

  has something here that it's really

  promising and and since then you know

  until now this is the first time with

  with surface that I've even thought for

  second about about buying some sort of

  windows related portable thing so but I

  tried it out too and i went to the they

  have these pop-up stores everywhere and

  i went to one in Manhattan

  and play with it for a few minutes and

  it just you know right away I was like

  okay this is it's not 10 times better

  than the ipad or whatever so it's not

  gonna be hard hard to get people who

  have at least experienced iOS 22 jump on

  that one

  alright let's pick this up on the flip

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  tags you can do it all right from your

  iphone i know post-production necessary

  they've got dynamics processing

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  the mic in the mix right as you do it

  for loud level audio anybody's done

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  levels right on the audio is really have

  the game and they've got buttons for all

  this stuff that you can set up in

  advance with intro and outro bumpers

  background music on the fly so you just

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  from iOS formats you can encode to just

  about any format you want to mp3 m4a wav

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  great with this it's got full this is

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  can totally see this gets right back to

  that whole argument about creation vs

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  this is one of those things where the

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  do like a pod flick take a radio show in

  the basement you know and what I guess

  would now be a podcast and I had none of

  this stuff right you know this is just

  so cool i had the exact same thought

  what if you want to make a podcast and

  have music come in and out and it's like

  now you just load it it's so stupid easy

  with this app it's ridiculous and I

  don't even know again like when I was a

  teenager I I don't even know where I

  would have even gotten started trying to

  you know fade-out music and have my

  voice come up over it would have been

  ridiculous i probably would have just

  had like two tape decks playing

  side-by-side and recording onto a third

  I suggest we had some audio equipment i

  see some real nerd stuff like doing

  play-by-play for a baseball game with

  with the you know with a microphone and


  yeah but that's amazing i'm just and you

  know it really is its day that's turnkey

  publishing I mean I don't want to you

  know sponsor is over but it really is

  that you do the whole thing right from

  your iphone just that there's no

  post-processing necessary to do the

  whole thing everything is leveled

  everything is blended together

  just spit it right out into your dropbox

  and you're done

  it's crazy holy crazy so we're talking

  about the surface and you know as it

  ties and related i mean there's just no

  way not to compare it to to iOS and 22

  the ipad and i agree i've seen a couple

  people this week as you know people

  start getting their minis who said the

  same thing you just said which is that

  boy it really feels like Apple just yank

  and Microsoft finally and you know that

  they've you know they've shipped like a

  2011 ipad competitor which is the same

  problem Paul mad our HP or whatever it

  was you know they're there

  the what's the skating toward where the

  puck used to be kind of situation but

  maybe that's ok there's still this

  concept of using office on this thing

  that I just don't get it at all like you

  know maybe maybe I've been publishing on

  the web too long and i haven't used the

  word doc in a long time but it's just

  the idea that these thin tablets which

  are you know kind of almost like a

  recreation device to a lot of people

  they're like oh this is fun i don't have

  to use this thing for work

  the idea that that all the sudden you're

  going to want to go and not doing excel

  model on this to me that it just doesn't

  make any sense

  and I've tried you know i i've

  downloaded Pages and Numbers and Keynote

  use them all on I don't use pages i use

  numbers all the time and came out all

  the time on my mac and then it's great

  but I just have never thought to spend

  any time with them on an iPad it just

  doesn't make any sense to me so i don't

  know i think if anything that some of

  the entertainment stuff that Microsoft

  has is more attractive than the office

  stuff like if you could tell anyone with

  the next box that they could play you

  know either part of their game or even

  the full version of the game you know I

  don't know how to do the controller but

  if you could do something I on a surface

  to me that's a lot more interesting than

  hey this thing runs office

  I don't know yeah and I think it's

  telling that there's always been the

  what are you gonna do on it

  question about the ipad right if you

  know and and you know it's really half

  of it was really the just about the

  whole presentation in 2010 when Steve

  Jobs debuted is you know this you know

  this slide as you know is a phone on one

  side there's a macbook on the other is

  there room in the middle for something

  in here and if so the only reason

  anybody is going to buy it is if that

  stuff you can do here in the middle is

  better than doing it anywhere else and

  there you know and I don't think it's a

  coincidence that the you know they

  launched with these ipad versions of of

  the off you know might have apples

  office apps of pages keynote and numbers

  and nobody you know it just doesn't seem

  like any of those three apps and I know

  they're still top sellers but I just

  don't hear people saying yeah that's

  what I love doing on my iPad and I I

  can't say that like looking over

  people's shoulders and airports and

  coffee shops that I see people doing

  numbers spreadsheets on your iPad that

  often i think they were like it was sort

  of a bad gas

  I think it's good that those apps exist

  and i do use them especially now with

  iCloud where I can store like these

  spreadsheets like I keep my my

  sponsorship schedules and a number of


  and I updated almost all the time from

  my mac but it's fantastic if somebody

  sends me an email and i can check i can

  just open it up on my iPhone and and

  check and I can see it and if i need to

  you know make a change or something like

  that i can do it but it's a we always

  feels real finicky it seems like they

  did it like a zit

  yeah as an insurance policy you know to

  be get it took up a good chunk of the

  Keen out and it was apple's way of

  saying hey you can feel comfortable that

  these apps exist that they still sell

  like crazy like they're always near the

  top of the top-grossing list so people

  kind of by that to feel comfortable that

  they have them I it's sort of i think

  the same way that they built that texas

  hold'em game you know when the app store

  first launched it was the no we don't we

  don't know if anyone's going to make a

  lot of good games for these things so at

  least we got one right and and then I've

  seen how usage hasn't really gone that

  way but I think it's telling that they

  haven't really updated them know at all

  okay well they haven't for the mac

  either i guess but i think that it's you

  know I think there's still potential

  there but i do think a big part of the

  problem numbers to me is the biggest

  example is that a spreadsheet that's

  optimized for the ipad like that it was

  just I pad only and didn't even have a

  mac or windows counterpart I think would

  be a lot different than what we've got

  with numbers like we're numbers to me is

  is it's all trying to maintain the

  fidelity of these spreadsheets you make

  on your Mac where you can make the cells

  real small and you've got this real

  precise mouse pointer and a for most

  people a much bigger screen than you

  know 10 inches

  whereas I feel like a really truly

  native ipad spreadsheet app would have

  much bigger finger friendly cells and an

  interface but I don't even think the

  whole active spreadsheet in really is

  conducive to touch i mean it's a you

  know it's a real data processing

  intensive thing where is that the like

  you know you always say Oh microsoft

  would appeal to the enterprise and that

  was always the thing that room was

  supposedly going to be good at two but

  in touch it seems like the enterprise is

  not the same thing as it is in pcs like

  npcs it's this idea of

  a huge office with a hunt you know with

  500l towers a stacked up in it in touch

  it seems like the enterprise is this

  tablet's everywhere in places that there

  were never computers before I i just got

  coffee on the way home before the show

  and you know of course the cash register

  it at almost all the coffee shops that

  I've been to in the last few months

  they're all ipads and that's kind of the

  new enterprise and it doesn't seem like

  Microsoft know me of course I I haven't

  done a lot of research it doesn't seem

  like they have a big plan for that

  yeah i I just I just don't I don't know

  I feel like that they're trying to

  maintain and a connection with the past

  that they anticipate being there forever

  that isn't isn't going to be by the way

  that's why I think they're still doing

  the ipad 2 which is these you know that

  the ipad as the display as signage

  and/or cat cafe cash register right or

  if you don't need to spend money on

  retina right who needs right now when

  it's some kids gonna spill soda on

  understanding i mean i don't have sales

  numbers apple is you never breaks that

  stuff down and even privately whoever

  the people are you know exactly which

  ipad have sold you know they're not

  going to tell me but you know just

  offhandedly and like you know just in

  raw numbers though it's you know I've

  been told that yeah the ipad 2

  definitely has sold well and Horace did

  you has figured out i don't even know

  the ways that guys like a like a wizard

  with numbers but he's figured out that

  the average revenue per ipad has come

  down pretty significantly in the last

  seven months and that the only expert

  the only possible explanation for that

  is that the 399 ipad2 was selling very

  well because there's no other way that

  because that the prices didn't change

  otherwise the only way that the average

  revenue per ipad would have come down as

  if that 399 iPad sold really well yeah

  and actually have the number somewhere

  not in front of me

  nevermind haha that's Mac + iPad so that

  doesn't tell us anything

  no I

  yeah i agree and that's why I think this

  330 i pad mini like you know yeah it's

  not 200 bucks but it's also not 500

  bucks so and you know and needs it's a

  way to easy even for the reasonable you

  know the smart handsome guys like me and

  you Dan

  it's easy for us to get caught up in

  what's going on right now you know and

  consider like the long-term to be the

  end of this quarter

  whereas if you just look just one year

  out and you know two or three years from

  now the distance between november 2012

  in November 2013 and you know from the

  from the future it doesn't look it's not

  that big you know one year isn't that

  much time with a year from now if they

  have a 329 retina ipad mini and then

  keep the non-retina 1 and use that to

  drop the point below 300 while the whole

  thing just makes total sense then we

  have the only way that doesn't work out

  for them and it just I just don't see

  this happening and I think they know it

  too is if you know these 200 and 250

  dollar tablets from amazon and google

  just sell an unbelievable numbers over

  the next you know eight nine ten months

  and I just don't think that's gonna

  happen i don't see it either the there's

  a lot of praise among the kind of nerd

  set above the nexus tablets but I don't

  even know where to buy one like and i

  wrote a post about this i think last

  week or the week before but with an ipad

  you know it's very obvious you go to

  your local apple store or the electronic

  store with a smartphone you generally

  buy from your carrier but with the nexus

  and you know with the kindle yeah you go

  to the the world's most

  popular online store but if you want to

  buy a nexus tablet

  where do you even go you know Microsoft

  Elise has has taken upon itself to set

  up some stores in basically every mall

  in every nice mall and I google you know

  what are they not rivage not trying to

  sell that many of them i don't know it

  date they do seem to have completely is

  issued brick-and-mortar retail

  which I think makes sense for some

  things like me a you know obviously

  phones are going to go through carriers

  primarily so they've been able to sell

  you know an insane amount of phones

  without ever having to touch retail and

  you know even their their ecommerce

  efforts they kind of scaled back at

  because they did so poorly but tablets

  are iono i wish i knew what percent of

  you know Apple will tell you what

  percent of Max they sell in their apple

  stores but they don't say for the ipad i

  wish that I I knew that might i would

  guess that it's pretty high when I would

  like to know 24 like barnes and noble

  and I feel like the Nook is often the

  dark matter in these discussions because

  it's just seems like everybody and I do

  this too is that when you say well what

  are the biggest competitors to the ipad

  i think surface nexus kindle but nook is

  doing pretty good

  I mean it's certainly that at least it's

  not like a complete dud but i wonder how

  much of theirs are being sold through

  their brick-and-mortar retail stores

  I mean I know that when I go into the

  one here in philly that the barnes and

  noble it's impossible to miss than the

  kiosk I mean it is you come in the door

  and i would i would venture to say it's

  the best real estate in the entire store

  absolutely i think it's i think it's

  pretty much you know that's what it is

  it's the fact that they have such great

  to distribution within their own know

  within their own chain i mean at my my

  kind of one-liner about the nuke is that

  the most amazing thing about it is that

  it exists it's this bookstore chain of

  all companies has been able to make like

  it and actually ok computer you know

  that target hasn't been able to do that

  or smart or any other retail chain but

  all of a sudden this bookstore has this

  decent tablet computer and no barnes and

  noble I think it's still wear a lot of

  people just go to hang out when they

  when they have time to kill and you know

  200 bucks is it's not an absurd amount

  spent at the bookstore that's like three

  dvds so I think that's done really well

  for them and now don't forget microsoft

  now owns a chunk of that note business

  up and I you know that that's I always

  wonder is that like they're kind of plan

  B if things don't work out with nokia is

  going to be okay you know is that

  strikes me horrible business that

  strikes me there now that i think about

  it because i mentioned i think with mg

  last week that at the surface event in

  New York the demo units and Microsoft

  had set up they had a bunch of

  third-party apps including Amazon Kindle

  but it was weird because the kindle apps

  didn't have any books in them you can

  launch the kindle app but there were

  they didn't they didn't preload any

  kindle books in there which seemed like

  what's the point of even putting the app

  on their way now makes me wonder why

  they like maybe there is no nook app for

  Windows 8 and maybe I guess that's

  probably the answer but I think that's

  probably it yeah but it just seems like

  poor coordination given that they're

  they're allied you know that they had to

  put a kindle app I mean like the hankie

  as popular as the kindle app for iOS is

  I really don't expect it ever to be set

  up on the the devil you have set an appt

  right then can you imagine being the guy

  at Microsoft just to call the guy at

  amazon and say hey could you give us a

  bunch of codes for for free for free

  books for our demo units or something

  like that or high water they just put

  free books on there or something

  yeah well why not just put the samples

  you know just somehow load them up with

  the you know what the sample you know I

  don't know there's gotta be some way to

  do it just put samples on there even if

  you want to be cheap and not you know by

  the 990 books for the things that's

  probably something that they thought of

  like an hour before and they're like oh

  shoot we don't have any actual books in


  I wonder whose job is it Apple to pick

  what music goes on the the iphones and

  ipods in the store

  yeah I wonder too i wonder if that comes

  from the store like is there something

  from the itunes store like to the iTunes

  Store get to pick like here's that you

  know here's the bead is it is it that

  let's put the stuff that is most popular

  or put the stuff that we want to be the

  most popular it's always an interesting

  mix like it's always there's always like

  some older stuff and some newer stuff i

  assume it's probably just a someone in

  the itunes division makes a playlist and

  when they do the the retail build

  get stuck in there yeah and it's you

  know it's true to that they pick which

  apps you know like games and stuff like

  that I feel like there's a it's probably

  a pretty interesting job actually

  there's all these little jobs at apple

  that I think are really fast like the

  you know that or the people who do that

  the packaging design that's got to be

  that's going to be kind of fun

  yeah definitely let's test out 17

  different plastics for the the insert

  and the new case or something like that

  writer or the cellophane that you wrap

  the device in right has to have the

  right to the right

  tearing characteristics and let me take

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  yeah blah blah

  you see the the live episode I did from

  montreal i did the whole thing in French

  uh-huh i love that was good

  well i did two sentences in French I ran

  out of Iran out of friends

  hey how'd you get how'd you make out

  with Sandy you know I I don't want to

  brag but we did great

  I i was we we were a couple blocks from

  i live in a neighborhood in Brooklyn

  called dumbo or a block away from it so

  the the waterfront area got pretty

  wrecked and some of the restaurants that

  you know that we like to go to are not

  in business right now but we got pretty

  lucky here the power was on the whole

  time and the internet went out around

  midnight so I was like all right bedtime

  and woke up the next morning and it was

  back so but I of course i did was

  freaking out most of the time because

  our windows are these sliding doors and

  I was paranoid that they were going to

  collapse on us and then basically be

  sitting outside so I was not relaxed at

  all it was pretty terrifying but the the

  windows held up and we stayed dry so but

  it's crazy like the city really got

  messed up and I you know it's it kind of

  says something about our new york city's

  infrastructure and at the same time it's

  a little i don't want to sound glib but

  it's a little fun to go through these

  kind of at least before all the bad

  stuff happened like the whole preparing

  for the hurricane is kind of slightly

  fun experience but then once it happened

  this time it was really bad so there's a

  you know it's been I guess the most uh

  the most heartwarming thing has been to

  see how people who you know scared okay

  have been helping people who haven't

  been there's been a lot of effort to

  bring food to some of the places that

  got hit very hard a lot of the you know

  New York has of course is trendy food

  truck movement so a lot of the food

  trucks have been off serving food to

  people who actually need it and not just

  people who want it

  and that sort of stuff so yeah it was a

  weird experience I mean you know you

  know it's not like I'm living in miami

  or something that hurricane in New York

  City theoretically isn't supposed to

  happen very often and now we fed to in

  two years but doesn't it you know what

  it reminds me a little bit of yeah i

  just don't see how you can't be of of

  the aftermath of 911 of just the city

  coming together and people anybody you

  can help somebody else helping out yeah

  I wasn't here for that I was still

  living in Chicago but but yeah that's

  what a lot of people were saying it was

  obviously a different sort of tragedy

  and although it affected in terms of new

  york city proper be on Staten Island

  like lower manhattan which is where the

  world trade center was was hit you know

  what was arguably hurt the most by sea

  as well like a bunch of my friends who

  live down there basically don't have an

  apartment unit for the next several

  weeks or even months because you know

  the whole kind of lower tip of Manhattan

  was flooded and everyone's buildings got

  their power and messed with so just

  little things I remember I saw a thing I

  one of those slideshows just the other

  day where that in the Meatpacking

  District is it of classic Steakhouse old


  they've expanded love Vegas and Atlantic

  City branch now but it's really not been

  for like a hundred years the steakhouse

  in there are electricity's been out and

  so the freezers are out so they don't

  want anything me to go bad so they're

  just they were just cooking up all the

  steaks from their freezers and giving

  them two cops as you know cops came by

  any first responders who just come by

  you get a free steak from old homestead

  and they're just you know some guys are

  just taking amount you know put them in

  it and the cars you know the squad cars

  is they go and it's just a donut some

  about that i thought that was just grow

  this there's a lot of that you know

  whenever something messed up happens

  here there's a lot of that camaraderie

  and I think like crime tips a lot like

  there were I think a couple days with no

  murders or something like rat exactly

  although there were also supposedly

  people dressed up as power company

  people and then robbing oh that's the


  it's a pretty scummy oh god that almost

  makes me want to believe in hell just so

  that they could go there

  yeah but it wasn't so it works how do

  you live with yourself with that

  oh that's pretty bad but it is

  interesting like how the biggest kind of

  the biggest yeah you know now it's cold

  and kind of sucks to be without heat or

  something like that that week was still

  not so freezing and kind of biggest

  thing was that people just want to

  charge their phones and there were these

  kind of impromptu charging stations that

  were set up it banks and at restaurants

  and hotel lobbies and all this stuff and

  it was it was you know yeah come inside

  don't be don't be out in the weather but

  also charged up your iphone and that's

  something that you know I I guess wasn't

  so prevalent 10 years ago now i don't

  think so at all i do

  think so at all i do

  I think that's a big difference is the

  big blackout they had new york was like

  well alright where our apartment's dark

  and the TV's off but here it's we do

  have this connection to they do the

  world but it's running out of battery


  I that was interesting and I kind of

  like the voyeur and me was kind of

  tempted to go into the dark zone at

  nighttime and shoot some footage and

  that kind of stuff but i don't know it

  seemed a little little dicey so I i

  missed out on that one button next to

  the next year I'll get a change and next

  year's hurricane i did see a thing I

  should look it up put it in the show

  notes i saw device on on uncrate the

  other day it's a portable iphone charger

  and just like a lot of these other ones

  you can plug it in the wall on it

  it stores a charge and then you connect

  the USB cable to any I guess it you know

  as it's a USB out so you can charge

  anything that can charge over USB with

  this thing but it's the distinction is

  it has a fold-out hand-cranked so that

  in a pinch you can charge this battery

  by like turning the hand crank like a

  like a pencil sharpener and it's one of

  those things where like two weeks ago

  would have thought I mean what i mean i

  don't know i don't go camping i'm not

  buying that thing whereas now I'm

  thinking hey maybe I should have one of

  those here

  yeah is that like the new the new

  headlamp is like Hannah something that

  yeah I wonder how that's the idea I

  imagine that's kind of going to be a

  popular gift at least in the East Coast

  for Christmas this year that kind of

  stuff and god only I don't know I mean I

  you know maybe it takes 10,000 cranks to

  get a little bit of a charge i don't

  know but it

  I you know in a pinch so in like

  citywide blackout I would do it i would

  absolutely do it i just sit there and

  turn that thing forever and I won't

  charge on my iphone they should soon

  I'll be an HTC phone with a built-in

  crank some someone will do that extent

  we have the hand crank er a unit

  yeah yeah and I do think you know I

  think that the you know I did the

  hierarchy of needs somebody a couple

  people have posted about this that

  obviously you know that it's kind of

  changed you know that obviously you want


  and shelter first electricity is maybe

  like above that and then you want you

  want connectivity right you want

  internet without you know it's all these

  poor people in New York couldn't play

  letterpress for a couple days

  honestly I i played probably about a

  hundred games and letterpress during

  that during the thing it was it was

  interesting like the the cell the cell

  towers of course have battery backups

  and that's how I guess the verizon LTE

  was on when the cable modem was off but

  eventually those gave out to I think

  verizon put them on faster though then

  that AT&T i want to say I'm not sure

  maybe maybe it has to do it

  they're being the local phone company

  here too i'm not sure what happened but

  it almost makes you wonder if there

  should be you know if those types of

  companies should be even thinking harder

  about this sort of stuff or if it was

  just a fluke thing and it'll never

  happen again i don't know that's the

  thing is you know you don't want to be

  too prepared for something that's not

  going to happen again so right or that

  you know next time it'll be something


  right right it's not the same thing same

  type of thing where you're you know

  everything is disrupted but the source

  of disruptions different like the

  underwear bomber well there's not going

  to be right the shoe bomber is not gonna

  be another shoe bomber again but that's

  all they want to think about his shoes

  so yeah well uh what one thing you you

  linked up a story that i think is

  interesting about virgin america

  ah maybe we should talk about that first

  yeah we could do that yeah you know as

  as kind of you know Mac Apple people we

  we've grown used to a world where our

  experience and you know and smart design

  is paramount to you know whatever else

  other features are out there and that's

  you know the story was that virgin

  america which is you know by many

  accounts the kind of smartest and best

  thought-out airline in the United States

  is still losing money like crazy and you

  know may not be financially viable due

  to a bunch of reasons you know that


  I industry just sucks to begin with and

  there's there's high cost of employment

  and fuel and all that sort of stuff but

  it makes you wonder you know is is the

  user experience the most important thing

  in and if it's not a sustainable

  business should you know can it can it

  keep going

  yeah I it brings me back to this

  argument i've had over this word the

  word traction for years I've sort of

  been you know that that it's there's

  some kind of black magic and whether

  it's you're selling computers or cars or

  airline tickets that you know that you

  somehow key get to a certain point where

  you have traction and it's so much

  easier to keep going then whatever is to

  get in the first place and you know I

  think Apple suffered from this for a

  long time and I've said this before and

  I can never find the source because it's

  an old 9003 thing and but I'm i know

  that that I'm right that it was and I

  think Apple it's the I know that the

  basic story is right but the the source

  of it is confusing and I've never been

  able to find anybody out there can find

  the source for this I would thank you

  greatly and mention you on the show and

  Thank You profusely but the gist of it

  is that Apple Commission this survey in

  the nineties maybe like 96 97 or so and

  it it showed that of people going out

  get us retail can consumers who were

  going out to buy a personal computer

  that ninety percent of them never even

  considered buying a mac and that like of

  the percentage who did consider buying a

  mac like an unbeliever like forty

  percent of them wound up buying one you

  know and so like apples like four

  percent of the US retail market in like

  nineteen ninety-seven was like ninety

  percent of people who never even gave it

  a second thought never even looked at

  him and ten percent of people who did

  and forty percent of those people bought

  one and that the gist of it being that

  all they had to do is get more traction

  in the people's minds just get more

  people to consider buying a mac and that

  their their sales could go way higher

  which is exactly what i believe has

  happened and I think that's that ipod

  halo effect that people wondered about

  you know in 2002 2003 is that once

  people started going even just going in

  to an apple store to buy anything to buy

  a music player it open your mind maybe

  buying a computer from them and you know

  it's all it's all coming up milhouse for

  them ever since I just can't help but

  think that virgins in that same

  situation where people are just buying

  tickets on delta and american airlines

  and whatever else because that's what

  they've always done

  I just don't know what to me once the

  first time I took a flight on virgin i

  instantly knew that I would never ever

  again fly anything else if there was a

  virgin flight available

  I mean I go out of my way to fly virgin

  out like i'll fly to make the times

  because they don't have they only have a

  couple of flights a day in and out of

  philly so i will fly San Francisco to

  LAX LAX to philly to make it work rather

  and pass up you know dozens of direct

  flights from SFO to philly on other

  airlines because it's that much better

  it's so much better than that I don't

  even hesitate to fly with the like a

  layover in LAX and that's and that's

  interesting and that and I think Eric

  you know flight is such a weird market

  where people are are usually just

  sorting by price and that's it period or

  maybe they have like a very hard time of

  day requirement or something like that

  yeah and I know what is it

  I also know a lot of people who've

  gotten locked into airline X because

  they've got a gazillion miles right and

  platinum on American so all I flies

  American when I have the opportunity

  haha and I guess that's exactly why they

  instituted those those you know those

  mileage programs and that i know a

  couple of smart and a couple of friends

  who are you know never fly I've spoken

  to him specifically about virgin and

  that they say that they'd love to but

  they can't because you know one of them

  got delta miles and the other one scott

  i forget the other one but you know it

  doesn't matter one of the old

  traditional carriers and they're just

  like locked into it because of that and

  I I don't know for me it's so different

  and it just makes because you know I

  tend to fly when I do fly it's often

  from coast-to-coast it's from here to

  San Francisco so it's you know a big

  huge chunk of my day and spending it


  in a comfortable seat in a nicely lit

  cabin with really Pleasant everything

  universally every single fight I've

  taken truly truly pleasant flight

  attendants better food actually like

  decent food

  you know it's kind of amazing and the

  other thing the other sense that really

  hits it is that it smells nice and a

  virgin airplane like the other airplanes

  it really makes you realize just how

  stinky the cabins are that mix of a

  burnt coffee and jet fuel and drive back

  we have farts around like farts and

  sweat or something that I don't know

  what they're doing it's in and it

  reminds me of like the difference

  between old casinos and new casinos like

  oh you want to an old casino and it's

  just this stink of you know like 1977

  sweat and cigarette smoke and that you

  know new casino really smells like wow

  that's a casino but it smells nice in

  here that's what versions like your

  index and middle of I'm sorry whether

  losing that the gist of it those that

  they're losing like three or four

  hundred million dollars a year and that

  you know people are saying that you know

  it's just that's just too much that you

  know maybe they got to start making

  money or the things going to dry up

  yeah and it's it's a different obviously

  the industry is a lot different in the

  financial situations are but reminds me

  a little of the old windows Apple

  problem which was everyone is so used to

  windows even if it's you know less

  elegant of an experience they can

  justify it because just because they're

  familiar with either because they're

  locked into it or something like that's

  the way it used to be

  it's just the way it is and uh and I've

  written this about even airplanes

  themselves like the the airline industry

  or the airplane industry that they need

  kind of their iphone moment we're seeing

  everything got reset you know right now

  they're kind of graduating from the the

  nokia symbian phone to the blackberry

  phone but there's no no they kind of

  need that inflection point where if you

  look at like the airline into that I

  want to get to DC on airline stuff but

  like you look at the the new planes

  they're designing like the 787 there

  they're like you know fifteen to twenty

  percent more fuel-efficient the seats

  are maybe a little you know more

  comfortable the TV is like an inch

  bigger but they're there isn't like that

  whole reset

  point where the experience is just

  vastly different and someone I think

  eventually we'll figure that out but i'm

  not sure what it is

  yeah i totally agree them and I don't

  know I'm surprised I i still have

  hundreds i just hope they have the

  patience to keep with it and that people

  catch on and it maybe they just need

  more couple more routes or something I

  don't know but it just it just doesn't

  add up to me maybe someday you can have

  an airline that would be I would I don't

  know I say it would be final price

  probably a terrible jump the Apple

  airline that would be a colossal waste

  of money then you know when to sell

  apple stock when they start doing that

  kind of stuff and the other thing I

  don't get on i just i just don't get on

  virgin is that they have first-class

  upgrades that are really really cheap

  like if there's open for seats in first

  class like day of the flight it's like

  you can be like just like a hundred and

  fifty box to upgrade and and there yet

  i've been on flights where I've done it

  I've gotten the first class upgrade for

  like a hundred fifty box and they're

  still open seats and like the the other

  cabinets full it's like one of my ID I

  don't know it just seems crazy to me

  that more people wouldn't wouldn't take

  advantage of it i think a lot of that is

  so they could just it you know if if if

  there are people on standby they can get

  more seats sold or or maybe just hook

  you into that experience like I've had a

  few free upgrades on American recently

  because i have so many miles and you

  know and I'm gonna in the Platinum

  program and now my crap had enough I can

  fly coach anymore course i have to write

  real business classes like way too

  expensive but I wish business classes

  where I was more like like Coach plus

  rather than first-class minus well it's

  funny because business class is and this

  is actually another like kind of

  parallel to the phone industry business

  class is so much more profitable than

  coach like you know maybe maybe like I

  don't know over half of the profits or

  maybe even more than that of a flight

  would be from the business class people

  if not like vastly more than that

  and it's the same thing like when when

  nokia was you know before the iphone or

  right after it was something like eighty

  percent of their profits came from their

  smartphones which were like ten percent

  of their phone sold so all those coach

  seats are kind of break even and then

  all the profit comes from the front of

  the plane so I wonder self west though

  which is all coach and profitable right

  so right so that's in southwest is still

  it's it's just their routes in and out

  of philly have gotten so inconvenient

  for me where all they don't they used to

  have a daily nonstop to SFO used to have

  one to SFO and 12 oakland and they've

  got rid of both of those so now the only

  way for me to go out west on southwest

  you know stop in Chicago which makes it

  a lot less appealing Vegas maybe I for

  cata faced i think they still have

  nonstops to vegas yeah and maybe I have

  to root through there

  that always makes me I don't like this I

  don't have a layover in Vegas that I get

  off the plane in Vegas that i wanna i

  wanna step right that was a one-time I

  remember last year i did that last year

  I was fine at the San Francisco pretty

  sure it was a Southwest i had and it was

  one of those continuations where I

  didn't even have to get out of the plane

  but we had enough time I wanted to go to

  the restroom and our get something to

  eat and I was like hey can I can I can

  quick run out of the plane and so I had

  five minutes in vegas nice the worst it

  was like just enough to like wet the


  perfect yeah southwest though is like

  flying in the giant bus

  I mean that then and they have the

  advantage where their staff is very nice

  they have trivia terrific service they

  have everybody people work for Southwest

  really like it it's you know there's

  like this very very generous stock

  ownership thing would be everybody works

  on southwest gets shares in the company

  and it really seems to invest them in it

  but it's really you know it's the

  coaches of coach and everybody you know

  you really are just in like a flying bus

  for four five or six hours that's and

  that's the prophets in the airline

  industry that and spirit spirit air so


  I agree though I i would like to fly

  everywhere virgin some days I'd like to

  I would like to just being a virgin

  plane just to work for the day just to

  go up a you could just go up flying

  around for a couple hours and let me get

  some work done in and then i'll just

  come right back to Philadelphia see

  there you go there's there there's the

  business is a just fly and they sit in

  the air all day and then go back down i

  do i find myself very productive on an

  airplane when i work during the day and

  it's I figured out why it's because with

  gogo internet it's and just not it works

  just well enough that i can use it to

  research things and look things up and

  it's way too flaky and slow to to really

  screw around on the internet and waste

  time so it just makes me very productive

  it's a very productive environment for

  for the type of work i do for linking to

  and writing about stuff

  yeah I've actually done some my best

  posts on go go except the only issue is

  that if you try uploading a photo they

  they totally degrade the quality of the

  jpeg they have some weird filtering and

  I was up looking horrible on your site I

  not only downloads but uploads to there

  are a man right and it is true I i bet

  you're the same way as me where we're

  complete isolation from the internet

  actually does make me less productive as

  a as a writer because i've i've just

  gotten used to say I don't know what

  this I don't know exactly what this term

  means any wikipedia it make sure i'm

  getting it right and if I can't do that

  it's like I feel lost I need a letter i

  need a little bit of internet to write

  well I and that's kind of to you know to

  come full circle I've set up my mini my

  ipad mini in a way that i can truly

  relax which is no email accounts on the

  ipad are so which is a bummer because

  sometimes i want to send an email and i

  have anything set up so maybe I'll just

  set up some AOL account something yeah

  but I see you I have the ipad mini and

  fold Zen mode so i might even

  uninstalled twitter because that's

  what's good for twitter so I'll just to

  hide it somewhere sometimes but without

  email i can really kind of you know

  really I i read a book this week which

  is something I haven't done in a long


  and it's been really great that says so

  it says a lot about our generation

  have you found your word my word yeah

  the word you're looking for

  no I don't know right its ok i just

  think it's telling that you're really

  proud of yourself for having read a book

  oh yeah it was good it was the Michael

  Lewis book about all the messed-up

  economies around the world

  I'll check it out now that's on my list

  somewhere now I gotta read the nate

  silver book because hopefully it'll make

  me smarter and it did he get all 50

  states this time and we had 49 so I

  think you got it i think you when I

  think you got 50 so now he's like 99 for

  the last hundred states he's gotta read

  he's gotta retire or he's got a hit like

  some insane goal next time maybe he'll

  even know

  well anyway thank you very much Dan from

  her for joining me this week this was a

  great show want to thank our sponsors

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