The Talk Show

22: Chewbacca Does It Again, with MG Siegler


  one of the things that made me think

  brad bird is number 1 i'm a big fan of

  all of his movies I can't think of a

  single one that I didn't enjoy but the

  other thing is that he has a track

  record of jumping into somebody else's

  thing and and sticking with it you know

  he did a Mission Impossible movie that

  is just a pure Mission Impossible movie

  i think the best one since the first one

  that the Palmer yet

  yeah i agree on a famously he took over

  ratatouille after somebody else that it

  wasn't his movie at Pixar somebody else

  had it and and everybody decided this

  isn't working out and he took over it at

  a you know late in the game and did well

  and that's obviously what somebody's

  gonna have to do to make a new star wars

  movie not necessarily that takeover and

  a half of boarded movie but you're

  coming into a series right yeah but i

  mean that that person whoever it is will

  have a much easier time than it would

  appear on the surface just because I

  mean I don't know about the people you

  know you you chat with on Twitter and

  stuff and but everyone there was like

  universal acclaim for the fact that

  George Lucas will only be a creative

  consultant on these things I mean I

  think everyone can agree that the the 13

  range from suck too bad and so you know

  it's big shoes to fill but it's also i

  think you know the kind of starting with

  a clean slate or they can they can do

  what they want so do you think what do

  you think they're going to do for these

  star wars things because so they went

  from George Lucas's obviously on record

  as saying that this was it they're never

  gonna do another one like he absolutely

  said no we're not going to do it and

  then you know things change people

  people acquire other entities and those

  entities have other ideas for what to do

  but there's all this you know there's

  the surrounding universe of Star Wars

  all those books comics etc do they use

  any of that or do they just come up with

  completely new things now I i say they

  go with completely new stuff I think

  I've always and I and I know there's

  probably a ton of listeners out there

  who who are going to disagree but

  my opinion is always been that the

  movies are the only cannon in Star Wars

  yeah and any other stuff is that just it

  may have the official logo on it but

  it's fanfiction right because i never

  got into i read the first one because i

  was so excited when the first novel came


  uh-huh ah because it was unlike 99% sure

  yeah I think I've got the timing right

  on this where empires are not Empire

  return of the jedi comes out in 1983 and

  then Lucas is okay i'm done with these

  star wars movies for now and right you

  know and it did that was the only time

  it really late eighties was the only

  time r star wars really kind of faded

  away where there was no new stuff at all

  right in the nineties they said ok we're

  going to start some new stuff and ate

  the first thing they did was

  commissioned a novel and it was terrible

  it was so bad and you know what was it

  was it an extension of uh of regalia

  jetta it took place immediately have to

  return of the jedi and it's about this

  guy named Grand Admiral something is

  like some kind of alien Admiral in the

  in the Empire and he was holding what

  was left of the empire together and and

  and I guess what i really hated about it

  was it was just one number one just

  wasn't that compelling number two it was

  a just well what do you know

  once again the entire fate of the galaxy

  comes down to Han Solo Princess Leia and

  Luke Skywalker all right right Adrian

  and I got the impression then after you

  know I never read any other stuff but i

  can write I'd often pick up the back of

  them those novels and see what it is and

  it's just a series of you know 40

  different incidents where the entire

  galaxy comes down to the fate of hunt so

  scary and it's late

  uh yeah that's a I you know it's sort of

  the James Bond movies right so there are

  what was it up until I forget you'll

  know this which one was it was derived

  from an actual even Fleming novel but

  they obviously had to break away from

  that because they just ran out of novels

  doing it I i forget the last one that

  was based on anything it's one of the

  ones in the seventies one of the Roger

  Moore ones and

  so they eventually had to move on and

  just come up with new stories and they

  also have I think the same thing where

  they have people doing fanfiction and

  doing their own like James Bond things

  so it's not as big don't think it's the

  star wars element of it but yes so now

  the movies are just they hire great

  screenwriters well sometimes mediocre

  sometimes it's it's the cast on the

  screenwriter on strike but they try and

  hire great screen writers to write these

  things just just from scratch and i

  think that works pretty well yeah i

  think so too and you know obviously you

  know the end and again they went back to

  in fleming source material for casino

  royale right and did I think a fantastic

  job of modernizing it you know because

  it was you know that the geopolitics of

  the novel written 1959 don't exactly

  hold up anymore right

  I've heard the new one is is excellent

  Ivan Ivan Ivan voided reading any major

  review of it but the bugs seems to be

  excellent buzz yeah I've actually heard

  and dead serious

  I mean exactly with you where I've I

  almost didn't even want to watch the

  trailer but I did and I'm glad I did

  because it wasn't a spoiler trailer that

  that that no modern format of trailer

  with we condense the entire plot into

  the 2-minute I wasn't like that at all

  too true teaser trailer but the thing

  i've heard is that there are people

  saying that this seriously could be like

  a best-picture movie I don't know about

  that i mean i was almost too good to

  wish for but it that somebody would even

  seriously or even have seriously

  suggested says to me all I need to know

  will have your burden is always a you

  know an actor in some category he seems

  to be in every year being nominated for

  something so in this is movie this year

  so you know maybe yeah I you know I I

  just an old adage I don't even you know

  i'm sure it distributed to 30 different

  directors but that ninety percent of

  directing is casting on and i do think

  that a lot of the bad James Bond movies

  have been really poorly cast word so you

  don't even know any of the other guys

  who are in there and I can't even name

  the actors i visit a hell of a cast

  right you get Javier Bardem you got it

  isn't rape refined in this yeah ray

  fridays in it and i have no idea what he

  is and don't have nobody tell me because

  i have no idea they get it was

  apparently a big secret

  good guys and bad guys the traders ii

  who knows but you know what can they

  have have you ever seen the movie

  perfume this kind of strange movie and I

  have that's about it's a weird series

  like killer with killer with a great

  sense of spell movie but it's an

  interesting movie is a it's like a

  quirky thing but anyway that that guy's

  i think is also in the James fun and

  he's I don't think I'm spoiling anything

  because it isn't the teaser thing where

  he's plays a the new quartermaster

  yeah yeah I know I knew that yeah he's

  like yeah and I are gonna write that

  down and watch that

  ya know i love the idea i love the idea

  that q is that the dynamic now is going

  to be that he's young he's like a

  twenty-something you know nerd

  yeah as opposed to being way older than

  bond now he's way younger than one

  yeah well you're going back to the star

  wars and here's the thing i remember

  this is why I'm not surprised that that

  there's a 789 that Lucas and I don't

  think it's a bad idea that Lucas has an

  outline form i think an outline from

  Lucas is exactly it's great because you

  know he's done the outline of what he's

  done for the original six movies is fine

  right it's the execution exactly in the

  dialogue just keep your eye on its

  overhead right and it's just no surprise

  that that with Empire Strikes Back he

  didn't write the screenplay did the

  story and then they went to Lee bracket

  who wrote those great nineteen forties

  Humphrey Bogart movies which were almost

  entirely the entire appeal of them was

  the great dialogue

  ok so that's you know I think that's a

  great direction but here's the thing i

  remember is when I was a kid it was so

  hard to get information because you know

  there was no internet and you would get

  these I remember I beg and plead and get

  my mom to buy these crazy magazines at

  the supermarket these movie magazines

  you know like things like fangoria i

  think was one yeah right you know and

  most of it was just filled and I liked

  it all but most of it was filled with

  you know like a seven-page thing on how

  they did the makeup for American

  Werewolf in London which is kind of

  interesting how they do makeup and how

  they do special effects and stuff like

  that but then that's where i would get

  tidbits of rumors about Star Wars and my

  friends and I would just buy these

  magazines and can

  assume them just to try to get the

  rumors about Star Wars and i remember

  back and this is you know early eighties

  maybe even before return of the jedi

  came out that we knew we'd is like a

  good eight nine ten year old kid I knew

  that there were going to be nine movies

  and that the first three words the you

  know these three that the next three

  we're going to take place before right

  we knew i knew in 1983 that how did will

  be our how did Anakin Skywalker turned

  into Darth Vader had a lightsaber duel

  with obi-wan Kenobi and got knocked into

  a pit of lava I'm I knew that when I was

  nine and isolated what do i do lily is

  kind of abandoned that when he and his

  most heinous recent interviews not

  recent but a few years ago and write

  about the second trilogy ye bandhan just

  burnt out or was you think I don't know

  my best guess is he just wanted people

  to shut up about it stop asking you

  and so he always knew he wanted to make

  nine but as soon as he finished the

  second three he just said there aren't

  going to be any more because it's a good

  way to get people to stop asking him

  when there's gonna be more storms yeah

  that's my guess

  another thing that wasn't brought up

  yesterday he is still in the process of

  doing like the 3d transformation all

  these right wasn't in the works

  yes because i went to see the phantom

  menace in 3d with with the with my son

  and I think the other ones haven't

  haven't come out haven't come out yet

  right so i assume that that's still in

  the works unless they unless Phantom

  Menace I don't know how well it did if

  it didn't do well and it wasn't worth

  the time and money to to i read great

  did it was like middling it did like a

  hundred and five million at the box

  office in a reissue which was you know

  it's a hundred five million box with

  right that right that I wonder how much

  that cost to do

  yeah but it wasn't like a sensation yeah

  one you know one other interesting point

  on that is someone I saw brought up and

  it's just kind of a nice parallel i

  think they said that uh mark hamill will

  be the same age as alec guinness was in

  the original Star Wars when this new

  2015 Star Wars comes out really kind of

  area to the whole parallel or is

  outguess younger than I

  I think yeah I think he was 60 sometime

  like that

  yeah yeah I think that's right i think

  that's what they said i think it was

  Mark Hamill I don't know he always

  looked all I've always thought that was

  one of those continuity things that just

  doesn't seem to add up is that how old

  you and mcgregor looks at the end of

  episode three when he's handing over

  baby Luke to the family where I compared

  to and was it 19 years later 20 years

  later in the nineteen or twenty years

  later when when the next one picks up

  the right right looks like he had over

  20 years

  yeah I've always having my back of my

  mind I've always thought I was gonna do

  to commission some sort of parody thing

  that I thought it would be funny that

  you know in this question of hey why not

  in those intervening 20 years why did

  Yoda and obi-wan go into hiding rather

  than like try to kick some ass around

  the galaxy right in my I always thought

  the funniest explanation would be that

  he he just drank himself sick and that

  can happen and you know like that's why

  he knows you can see it as a good look

  yeah that's a lie like that I like that

  because it really does seem like he's

  headed very a really rough 20 years

  well and ewan mcgregor did a good job of

  the voice stuff right like he's he did a

  fantastic job he's constantly mimicking

  Alec Guinness his voice and yes just

  like they could have done a little bit

  more makeup work yes and in the third

  one to show him slowly deteriorating

  something like that

  I well remember when they were

  originally casting the new trilogy one

  of the rumors was that kenneth branagh

  was up for the role of obi-wan Kenobi

  ok so even closer in age than at least

  liked for the Aged discrepancy right and

  i think that the guy i think the

  explanation was that he had read Lucas

  reconsidered how big of a span he wanted

  to cover and wanted to have a truly

  young obi-wan in the first one you know

  like I don't know how old he was but he

  was supposed to know you still a Padawan

  and right he has a rat tail so it's

  probably like you know right yeah 20 but

  i think though that kenneth branagh

  would have been it would have made the

  continuity feel more by the end of the

  three movies would have made it feel a

  little bit more

  again it's about 20 years before Alec

  Guinness so do you think with these new

  ones you think they do continuation or

  all new characters I mean they'll have

  to do some obviously tions to the to the

  previous original trilogy right i really

  don't know and that was the one thing

  you know that

  yeah and and there do you see the thing

  that came out today that mark hamill

  said in an interview that George Lucas

  had told that had lunch with him and

  Carrie Fisher a year ago and told them

  like a year ago and said look you can't

  tell anybody but I'm going to do three

  more movies and I guess there was

  nothing interview interview that said I

  want you guys in it

  alright it just he just said I just like

  you guys should know because it's gonna

  come out you know it's gonna come out

  eventually I wanted you guys to know

  that and they're going to be sequels

  that take place later but I you know

  whether it's 20 30 years and those

  characters are still alive or whether

  it's you know thousand generations or

  something like that I don't know

  yeah well if they want to I mean the

  every indication by disney now is that

  they want to keep keep this going

  indefinitely almost like a James Bond

  type thing where you know even new one

  every few years so if they do that then

  I assume they start pretty soon after

  the the original trilogy and then just

  keep going into the future and trying to

  make compelling characters right be kind

  of cool if it was just like rumored you

  know like that there's this guy Luke

  Skywalker's I don't know I definitely

  think it could be it's very yet I feel

  like it could be great and I but I feel

  like the worst thing would be if it's

  you know Lucan land and I I can't

  imagine Harrison Ford want anything to

  do with it and right now Luke and Leia

  and Chewbacca save the galaxy again

  okay yeah pretty exciting

  yeah I'm surprised I'm kind of so i

  don't know i mean obviously I've never

  met George Lucas but I'm just surprised

  it from what I thought about him that

  just you know I guess he wants to get

  into charity and I guess if you're gonna

  write you can do that me know if that's

  really where your passion is you know it

  just doesn't make sense to me

  he clearly has yet I think he's ok he's

  already billionaire right from from all

  those movies like he his big thing was

  that he did such a good job of the

  the cutting the deals to get the

  merchandising rights right i mean that's

  very made most of his money off of off

  of all the Star Wars movies and the

  movies themselves made you know over a

  billion dollars but that's small

  compared to what they make on the toy

  sales and all that other stuff and so

  yeah he clearly didn't need the money to

  do it but maybe don't know maybe feels

  like Disney will be a good shepherd I

  mean Bob Iger seems to be awesome at

  cutting these these types of deals I i

  actually just want to take him at his

  word and that he you know he wasn't

  going to make anymore he wants us to

  stay evergreen and you who better to has

  a better track record of keeping

  franchises a live decade after decade

  than disney right you know and have done

  a very good job with the muppets they've

  done a good job with that

  well marvel it's hard to judge so far

  that's right it's too early but they've

  done a good job so far with those films

  and they do a great job with the

  merchandising which has always been so

  important to start were so right

  yeah it's a good fit yeah very exciting

  as i said i tweeted this and couple a

  lot of people retweeted it and it does

  it weirds me out is that it is going to

  be really weird to have a Star Wars

  movie open without the 20th century five

  and fair

  yeah yeah I wonder do they did they

  retain any sort of Rights for like Co

  distribution of any future properties no

  okay and it's different with Indiana

  Jones paramount has anything if they do

  anything with Indiana Jones it's gonna

  have to be with paramount cooperation

  ok on in some degree or they have to buy

  them out they are there's something that

  have to buy up and our warriors and

  that's because like Spielberg it's that

  this is so incestuous right so

  Spielberg's Amblin group had a deal with

  paramount back then when they were doing

  that and then Kathleen Kennedy was his

  production partner and now Kathleen

  Kennedy is the president of a Lucasfilm

  at disney so it's like all these things

  are tied together directly i didn't

  think about that i didn't put those that

  her name together there

  yeah the three of them are all like yeah

  Lucas spill Bergen in kathleen kennedy

  obviously have been closed for a long

  time and now that's all sort of related

  and then

  so I don't know but everybody but 20th

  Century Fox has nothing going forward

  with the new trilogy the only thing that

  they have and it is fascinating is the

  20th Century Fox has perpetual rights

  into infinity for the original 1977 star

  wars a new hope for the distribution of

  it all that's interesting day they have

  Empire and return of the jedi until like

  20 20 or something like that and I don't

  think they end the new ones they were

  just you know Lucas was in a position of

  power where they they were just

  discussing later

  something must they must be pushing them

  to do this 3d stuff because they want to

  squeeze as much money before 2020 or

  whatever it is they can out of this

  yeah i think so and that the idea was

  that once these other three movies are

  done figured 2015 given two for each

  year two years reach 2015 17 19 that by

  2020 it would be nice to be able to buy

  a 9 movie box set but that it would

  never be possible without either buying

  20th Century Fox's rights for that

  original 1977 one or doing it in

  cooperation with them that's that you

  know that's that's interesting when

  thinking about the james bond series

  again right because uh who is it it

  might make me paramount that owns the

  rights to one I think it's thunderball

  and that's why they redid the night that

  bond movie in the eighties with with

  Connor e-learning never seen ya never

  say never again because that's the only

  one they own the rights to that's the

  only one that the the broccoli family

  doesn't have complete rights to it i


  yeah it's a very it I i really got

  obsessed with that a while ago is when

  Dan Benjamin and I were going through

  all the james bond movie and we decided

  to treat it as one because the honorees

  and it's a bond movie

  yeah it's like he had agreed to do a

  teleplay Ian Fleming I'm wasn't a James

  Bond story i don't think it was just a

  spy caper for like the BBC television

  with a co-writer yeah and it fell

  through never happened and he took the

  guts of the story which was just the

  basic idea of it

  terrorist organization steals a nuclear

  bomb by hijacking by having a trader on

  a a pilot Air Force pilot because a

  trader for this terrorist group and

  that's how they get ahold of a nuclear

  bomb and they just want to ransom it off

  ok good story but he took it and made it

  into a bond novel and the litigation

  started and it was all ongoing and the

  broccoli group went ahead and made a

  movie out of thunderball anyway even

  though they had some of their advisors

  are saying maybe we shouldn't do this

  one to keep you know let's do another

  one he's already got 60 these novels

  don't do thunderball yet because there's

  this legally questionable weird anyway

  and it was a huge hit i mean it was you

  know is i might have been making the

  biggest it might have been the biggest

  one because it was the fourth one and

  Goldfinger was was one of a kind of

  broke through as a sensation and

  thunderbird is just an unbelievable

  follow-up Ron and it was like more of a

  spectacular in terms of the effects with

  all the underwater fighting and stuff it

  was I get people were going back to see

  it again and again because they were

  seeing things in everything but anyway

  they ended up losing the litigation and

  lost money on it and and that the gist

  of it was that both Fleming and the

  original guy got co-writes to the

  Thunderbolt James Bond thunderball story

  so the broccoli group if they wanted to

  could make a new do it fireball it but

  there's this other group at you know i

  think you're right that it's paramount

  could do it to like they could still

  make any they still could make a James

  Bond movie if it follows the plot and I

  think they were I believe that almost

  happened in the nineties when they were

  in between the Dalton and bras and stuff

  i think that a group was exploring

  rebooting before gold and I came out for

  paramount or whoever the other studio is

  but yeah it would've had to use that

  same they're just gonna remake it every

  10 years I guess Nam and so I wonder if

  with with Star Wars now since since 20

  Century Fox owns those the rights to the

  first one if they do like a remake of a

  new hope with like six year old mark

  hamill and I don't know if you that

  would be it would be interesting if they

  have the right to do whatever they want

  like that or just the rights to


  the movie as it was made you know you

  got me interested yeah I don't know

  fascinating stuff though really is yes

  us all right let's do that the nerd why

  that's nerd stuff too but that one their

  stuff right actually quite a bit of

  applications now the Apple the ipad mini

  ipad for seems like everybody did what I

  did it seems i didn't really discuss

  with anybody but I i had to review units

  from apple and an ipad 4 and iPad Mini

  yep i spent all week with the ipad mini

  and i use the ipad for free like 15

  minutes just did you not give it a kick

  kick the tires run some benchmarks and

  as I get it just like the ipad 3 about

  twice as fast

  yeah that the problem is I don't know if

  you ran into this like I was trying to

  test the the fourth-generation iPad and

  it the ipad 3 is already so fast for

  every app that I try to run it's just

  like it's hard to gauge I think you know

  things load faster generally but it's I

  mean it was already loading so fast so

  we're really gonna have to wait for

  developers to come up with kind of crazy

  apps to take advantage of the a6x and

  and the new graphics capabilities and

  we're just not there yet

  yeah aiight i saw a demo of one kind of

  during the briefing thing of of game

  that was specifically built for the new

  technical capabilities and looked

  amazing you know different lens flares

  and all kinds of different things going

  on graphically but yeah it's it's really

  it was really pretty hard to to try to

  review this fourth-generation iPad since

  it is you know for all intents and

  purposes a an ipad 3 s right

  yes and it's true too because you know

  that the games were already out there

  they're the developers aren't going to

  target hardware beyond what's already

  out there so anything that's already am

  store is meant to run well on the ipad 3

  yep or at least on the ipad 3 if not

  even older ipad so did you know that

  I've had for is going to use you know go

  through that without even breaking a


  yeah so yeah I think we all i think i

  saw that too that pretty much everyone

  roped in there just a quick mention

  about the the ipad fortune in their ipad

  mini review yeah but i really like

  did the ipad mini I really all I think I

  like it more

  you know I'm gonna take a lot of shit

  for saying that but I think I like it

  more each day like the more I just use

  it just seems to be a much more natural

  way to just interact with them with a

  tablet seems like it and I I'd feeling I

  would feel that way given my thoughts

  about the nexus 7 the form factor in

  general and it just seems like Apple had

  an opportunity to really nail this form

  factor and I think they did I wanted two

  things that struck me i didn't put in my

  review but and i actually just saved it

  for the show cuz it it anyway sound

  better than it would read better but it

  took me feels like more of a pad like

  the your word pad fits better here

  whereas the full-sized iPad is more of a

  tap tablet seems like the right word

  right like this big thing that Moses

  came down the mountain with a big tablet

  yeah that's that's a good way to put it

  i agree with that this feels more like a

  pattern i know people have been

  comparing it to like you know the weight

  to like a pad of paper at it they are

  very similar it's you know it's even

  smaller than like a mosque in notebook

  or doing a bigger normal skin notebook

  right on probably equivalent to like the

  the more pocket-sized moleskin notebook

  it really just pad feels like the right

  word and I do feel like this is sort of

  the natural especially for someone and i

  really emphasize this as someone who

  still has and wants to have a portable a

  real portable laptop computer like a

  macbook air macbook pro or something

  like that as a secondary portable

  computer this seems like a better form


  yeah and I think that's why you know

  some people are already questioning well

  how does this fit into the lineup I mean

  you know you got an ipad already why

  someone would buy this

  I do think that'll that more people are

  going to end up buying an ipad mini I

  mean I know it's it's early and and who

  knows how this will actually play out

  especially given the price element of it

  but this just seems like the thing that

  people will want especially the people

  that you're talking about which is most

  people most people already have a

  computer of course and so they're

  wondering like why should i get an ipad

  when I already have a computer maybe

  i'll get an ipad you know when my

  computer dies or something like that but


  this is a pretty natural transition

  point to have both so yeah that's why I

  think that this thing maybe soon as next

  quarter could end up about selling the

  the iPad itself i really i think for the

  holiday quarter i really do and part of

  the reaction and it's one basing it on a

  sample size of one almost nine year old

  boy but there is a note no doubt in my

  mind that if you sent if you gave my son

  400 bucks put them in the apple store

  and so you can buy whatever i pod you

  want our iPad well whatever you want 400

  bucks i think there's no doubt in my

  mind that he would buy the ipad mini

  this is no question he wouldn't know how

  is he so that's I'm pretty interested in

  that because i have no real a data point

  there yet in terms of like kids using it

  so that's a huge thing for the iPad

  itself and everyone knows this by now

  but what about the ipad mini with kids

  like how did your son use I wanted to

  play games on it and you know and he

  does he does read he reads it does I

  books on his ipad is an old think it's a

  first gen ipad actually the one that we

  have been around that's for him to use

  but it's definitely pretty resonant

  either a one or two but it always has

  surprised me that he uses it less than

  his old last generation Knockaround

  iphone that we given he plays more games

  has played can you know consistently

  more games on an iphone then on an iPad

  even when it's not because we were out

  it out about and that's what was easy to

  take form it's in the house when he's on

  the couch and he's just playing games he

  likes that because i think that the the

  weight of the idea is a it just feels

  like work whereas he really likes the

  size of this is like what you know is

  his take was I can't believe they didn't

  make them all like this so yeah I wrote

  in my review and I think I'm not it i'm

  not a huge gamer by any stretch but it

  seems like when i was playing some of

  the just testing out some of the

  different ipad optimized games on this

  ipad mini this seems like an absolute

  killer gaming device like I don't know

  why people would still buy an xbox or

  you know obviously there's going to be

  games that have

  with more better graphics capabilities

  and you know some more involved games

  but for casual gaming this is an

  absolute killer device for that it's

  like the perfect size and it almost

  feels like these games were tailored for

  an ipad this size rather than the larger

  size because like where your hands are

  situated and you know you have well you

  don't have a you know the side bezel now

  really on the when you're holding it in

  portrait mode in landscape mode you

  still have that and it's just it seems

  like a really awesome gaming machines

  yeah i think so too i really do think

  that in some ways maybe it's more of a

  devastating competitive move to nintendo

  and Joanie yes then it is to google and

  amazon you know because especially with

  isn't nintendo I you know I haven't seen

  too much about it but I know it's coming

  out the wii u their new gaming systems

  they're gonna be first to market of the

  next-generation gaming system with this

  wii u thing in I mean it's sort of not

  too different from what the ipad mini is

  doing right it's like the handheld

  touchable hold it with two hands type

  thing and i think that i mean this is

  this is going to be huge for for kids it

  gaming and for just people like casual

  games now I don't count nintendo out

  cause I'm a huge fan of Nintendo's work

  and I think they really do sweat the

  details and and in an apple-like way

  about getting gameplay right buttons

  right into that but I just think that

  the ipad could risk taking so much

  oxygen out of the room that there

  there's not enough left for nintendo no

  matter how good the product they come

  out with this

  yeah and I mean we this gets brought up

  every every quarter at least but how

  awesome would it be if Apple just bought

  nintendo I mean it would be it would be

  such a great selling point for these

  devices it makes sense for Apple to do

  because that's that's will get people

  specifically just to buy an ipad mini to

  be able to play mario and zelda and

  those and those types of IP it seems

  like Nintendo like the reports out of

  Japan they're very proud company

  obviously they don't want to do that but

  Apple has the money of course to do it

  and it's just a question of what it

  would it work could they make it work

  and would it make sense to maybe keep

  them get them out of the hardware game

  and keep them is like into almost


  content game you know just focus on

  making games will make the devices you

  focus on your library you know almost

  again like Star Wars this great library

  of classic characters and games and

  innovative new stuff that's really

  really super engaging yeah and i think

  that they would avoid what you know what

  would be the pitfall of potential

  pitfall of this which is that you know

  well apples moving into gaming now

  everyone else watch out but the gaming

  environment is such a big thing and this

  is worked well for nintendo in the past

  and all these other guys they make their

  games everyone makes their own games but

  then they have the larger ecosystem and

  it's kind of like pushing the envelope

  for nintendo's always been good at at

  setting a new high bar and kind of the

  other guys trying to to match it and

  apple could do the same thing with their

  own gaming studio under nintendo if they

  did that or if they worked out some kind

  of deal you know maybe they want to

  require you to do some kind of the

  essence in deal where they encourage

  them to you know somehow do we

  exclusively producing yeah stuff might

  have to imagine that all of those guys

  have been talking about this for years

  and microsoft sony well maybe not

  something i don't know what the rivalry

  like is its with sony and nintendo maybe

  they hate each other but Microsoft

  certainly had to have has to have

  constantly been approaching intended to

  try and make those games available on

  xbox because it's such a gold mine right

  well it's two hands they have number one

  they have nintendo has tremendous talent

  yes I mean then consistently you know

  they just have great great game

  designers and artists and the second

  thing i have is this library of

  characters which as that the Marvel

  acquisition and the star wars

  acquisition show has unbelievable value

  I mean then you know that's been long

  enough that you know there's no doubt

  that these guys like Mario and Donkey

  Kong and those guys are you know maybe

  they're not quite at the level of the

  Disney characters like Donald Duck and

  Mickey and those guys but they're very

  very close and maybe I would be

  surprised if in Asia their greater yeah

  oh yeah that's it i would be surprised

  either a disney tries to acquire a

  nintendo I we may write in their

  wheelhouse know and that definitely

  seems like their strategies if you

  not evergreen ensemble of these

  characters that were a no and its family

  and their family friend friendly than

  where we want them

  yeah no doubt about it ok with the game

  I think of and I don't play enough games

  to really to be a great judge of it but

  I know the one game i sometimes like to

  play as the real racing games on ipad

  and it's it's I think it's definitely

  better on the mini no doubt in my mind

  because it's you know it's just far less

  to hold out in front of you i mean your

  arms are sticking straight up and then

  you know doing this thing where you're

  turning the screen with a pound and a

  half vs. you know seven-tenths of Amelia

  it's right you know it's a huge

  difference so I do think that gaming

  alone i think ipad mini and so is going

  to be a hit and so let's talk about the

  screen that's obviously I mean every

  review had to say it because it's just

  straight in front of you anyone who's

  used retina display for extended period

  of time will be immediately kind of

  turned off

  I at first by the screen because it's

  not retin-a quality and you know to me

  that kind of faded over time but then I

  switch back to you know I've got the

  retina mac and of course the retina

  iphone and the retina iPad and so it's

  just it's pretty jarring but you know

  the larger point is that most people

  still don't have iPads and there's

  plenty of people still with with non

  retina displays on their various devices

  who won't who you know it

  this is still a great display it's just

  not a Retina display no I you know I'd

  really that was my first I was just

  really disappointed after a week I got

  used to it especially because I stopped

  using the other ipad i wanted to you

  know most people normal people are going

  to more than one ipad that they use so i

  just use the mini for a week and I got

  used to it but i also am clearly i am

  very self aware that I am far more

  obsessed with screen resolution

  resolution than most people and also

  specifically with the rendering of type

  on screen yeah you know I mean I know

  how to recognize Ariel from the


  normal people don't know where normal

  people just don't see that big a

  difference between redneck

  non retina and i really do think i am

  convinced absolutely

  well I'll say 99.8 percent convinced

  that the ipad 2 has continued to sell

  very very well maybe even surprisingly

  well at 399 alongside the retina iPad

  threes that people are going into apple

  stores for the last seven months seeing

  the ipad 2 right next to the retina iPad

  threes and saying WOW 399 I'll take this


  yeah and I tried to get some sort of

  answer out of Apple about that they they

  won't give you anything specific but it

  seems like certainly education comes

  into play there are you know they're

  they're selling the cheaper versions and

  they I think they sell them at a

  discount right if they if they sell them

  in bulk and so education is a part of

  that but yeah there's no question that

  they're selling the ipad 2 for a reason

  even though they discontinued the

  third-generation ipad right like rather

  than doing fourth-generation move the

  ipad 3 down to the 399 price they just

  killed that off and now they're just

  doing the ipad 2 and so that says all

  you need to know right there that

  obviously it had to have been selling

  well and so its existence proof that

  right now today you do not need a Retina

  display and an ipad to sell well yeah

  it's you know it would be nice and

  surely eventually whether it's a year

  from now or 18 months from now or two

  years from now there's going to be an

  ipad mini with retina display it just is

  not right

  right as rain you know I'm sure it's you

  know night follows day but and that's

  going to be great and I'm going to love

  it and I'm going to be so happy but in

  the meantime there's absolutely no

  reason that this isn't going to continue

  to sell really well and I think the ipad

  to you know whether Apple did

  intentionally or not it's it made the

  timing of this ipad mini pretty perfect

  because had there been nothing but a

  Retina Display ipad out there first so

  the four and three the downgrade would

  have been much more dramatic but the

  fact that they are still selling the two

  you know they don't have to come in with

  a product that's the that's really

  downgrade in anyway it's just it's a

  better ipad2 right it's not a it's not a

  downgraded ipad forward now

  no it's a great product alright let me

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  week I went to the point to the

  Microsoft Windows 8 event

  mom you did I didn't know that yeah I

  hope I came in on a red-eye from the

  west coast after the apple thing and

  after being in LA to record last week's

  the talk show

  uh-huh but i was so happy that they

  invited me and I really didn't want to

  miss it because i really wanted to see

  it and I'm really am glad that I went I

  haven't been to a microsoft event before

  so before you get into that let me let

  me bring up something here because it's

  fascinating that that you that they

  invited you

  I've heard specifically now from a few

  different people that they do not want

  me to have a surface

  um and I've heard that from internally

  within the company like their advocate

  you have friends there and stuff we're

  trying to see if I could do it just you

  know either door viewer just play around

  with it whatever and they do not want me

  to have one and I don't know if that

  speaks to the fact that obviously they

  think i'm going to be biased in some way

  shape or form but I mean they should

  understand that if i take a shit on it

  and then it ends up being a good device

  I look like an ass

  exactly thats really everybody doesn't

  seem too

  get right and it's I have to be honest

  about it so I don't know what they're

  afraid of or whatever it is and I've had

  a fine relationship with Microsoft in

  the past they just seemed to not want me

  to have this device I just saw the same

  thing with harry mccracken review of the

  ipad mini 4 time and somebody in the

  comments or on Twitter was like wow what

  a surprise another positive review of an

  apple device and time five in a row and

  and McRae's responses will look at those

  five devices are in hindsight are they

  good devices i think i'm actually think

  that you know I've done a good job i've

  called it is you know accurately these

  have been great device it's so

  ridiculous right and into Google's

  credit they're great at this like they

  know that I'm not the biggest android

  fan in the world but they still sent me

  all these units to try it try out see

  what I think about it and you know they

  seem to appreciate at least my take on

  it whether or not they agree with it

  home and your your nexus 7 review was

  actually very very positive and unite

  active is going to be right right yeah

  so I don't know

  yeah so it's good to hear that Microsoft

  invited you to the event that they're

  not blackballing all of us if they are

  black by me i don't know i I've heard

  this a couple times now to believe it to

  be true but on this edition they should

  reread what you write and well like when

  I say if they think I'm fair they should

  i think they should have a similar

  opinion of you honestly

  well anyway it sounds it easily I don't

  know he's a fan of daring fireball but

  at least that sandusky read it and and

  respects it yeah uh it was so i want to

  write about it but like that and i'm

  kinda it's kinda off the clay but it's

  just been such a busy week that I

  haven't gotten around to it yet but just

  off the cuff that the gist of it was so

  interesting to me because it was except

  everyone just think about it from a PR

  standpoint of a product marketing

  standpoint what a tough position

  neighbor in where they wanted to in vail

  two things they wanted to unveil the new

  operating system which is for all these

  ecosystem partners and they want to do

  unveiled their own surface device which

  competes with those partners like how do

  you do that and one of that right and so

  with the weight without having to events

  the same day that's that's what I found

  so interesting

  the morning was like a reverse apple

  event ten o'clock the doors open you

  come in and you do your registration and

  the first thing you have is a big hands

  on area with all of these devices from

  acer and asus and samsung and HP and

  dell think paso you you try them out

  before they talk about the first thing

  you do is come in and add you know is a

  nice to not bigger in a coffee and juice

  and stuff like that but all these hands

  on things and and you know just anything

  that was ready on day one was there and

  very few desktops there was like one or


  I'm a Kish ask all-in-one desktops but

  almost entirely tablets and convertible

  tablets you know any any way that you

  can imagine that there's a way to secure

  a touchscreen tablet to a keyboard dock

  type thing

  there's one that was there i mean

  everyone I can't even I was saying I was

  walking around with Clinton Morris from

  Fox and we were seriously trying to

  think of what else could there even

  conceivably be you know one's that snap

  together there were ones that had is so

  awkward to me there's like a frame like

  think of a window frame and it connects

  in the middle so use pivot it it like

  spins around so you can close it back up

  with the keyboard and the keyboard is

  there underneath it but the screen is

  now facing up

  you don't understand i mean like imagine

  the last hour of yeah I don't think that

  one's I forget who made that 1i i want i

  think is DOA I mean it's really weird

  but anyway

  first you have the hands-on then about

  an hour in they had the big keynote and

  you know and it was kind of again

  opposite of Apple where they had nothing

  new to announce because that's just the

  net and that's not a fault that's just

  the nature of being a provider of us

  os/2 these partners they had to have

  announced everything in advance

  otherwise there'd be no one who did it

  wouldn't be any hardware available so

  they just it was just a way of

  reiterating what Windows 8 is all about

  and they talked about what it does and

  then they started talking about here is

  some of the great devices that are here

  today and

  you know one by one you know started

  showing them and showing what's

  interesting about this one about that

  one and then at the very end they did

  they see you know they got two and now

  you know finally you know for the first

  time we have windows running on arm

  systems and here's to great ones and it

  was one from asus and one from microsoft

  microsoft surface so they didn't even in

  that first event didn't even hold the

  surface up unlike a slide on screen or

  on stage by itself once they did it

  alongside that thing from Asus shared

  the stage an embalmer came out and and

  did his thing and and then that was it

  and then we broke for lunch so it was

  hands-on first then the keynote then we

  broke for lunch and after lunch

  it was like a Stoli separate event it

  was the same press invitations it wasn't

  yet you know i had to have a separate

  invitation but they had a second keynote

  that was first and i even did it in a

  different room that had this whole big

  Pere in New York and they even did the

  keynote in a different room that was a

  little bit smaller and this time it was

  mostly Sinofsky and it was all about

  surface so that's that almost it sounds

  like okay we're putting the kids to bed

  and now the parents are going to talk

  yeah that's yeah totally exactly yeah we

  put the kids event now it's now it's

  serious and then we got out of that

  keynote then they'd opened up a separate

  different hands-on area that had nothing

  but surfaces and plenty of them and as

  many I mean like they were they had I

  think if anything they had more keyboard

  covers than surfaces because I guess

  they wanted you to be able to try both

  uh-huh so they did not i do not have one

  they did not get one as I can review

  unit but i had spent at least I don't

  know in our plan with it so initial

  thoughts without spoiling a any anything

  going to write about it what would you

  actually think of it it's it is not

  designed for me sorry really tried to

  see I'm trying to keep an open mind

  about it though but I you know it's not

  bad and and it's good in some of the

  ways that Microsoft has always been good

  where it's a lot of it does feel very

  snappy and that the touch seems really


  in a way that you know a lot of android

  stuff hasn't you know and in terms of

  tracking your finger and scrolling

  smoothly him but the exactly when in you

  know and this is what I thought and and

  you know is it my prejudice which would

  presupposition you know my bias before I

  came in my bias from the last eight

  months ever since they announced it is

  it just me reinforcing it or is it

  really the truth but it really felt like

  it as i used it which is this that the

  desktop the whole idea of having the

  desktop mode there it just sticks out

  like a sore thumb and I know that

  they're not letting anybody add you

  can't have third-party desktop apps

  right it's only the ones that are built

  in which is explorer ie which to me is

  really crazy that there's IE in metro

  and I that area and the office suite

  then introduced it none of that really

  seemed to perform well and it's not even

  just about like that the touch targets

  are small in office they actually you

  know like they've said they've done a

  pretty good job you know and i would

  have to say that a lot of the touch

  targets in office on the surface are at

  least as big as the touch targets in for

  example I photo for the ipad and iphone

  yet which has a lot of little finicky

  controls along the bottom but it really

  kind of felt like me though it just felt

  like when you're in that desktop mode it

  kind of felt like when you're at a kiosk

  in a museum and they know that they're

  just running some piece of craft ice

  cream thing you ever see that like I

  know there's some airlines a couple of

  the airline's like when you check in

  with their touch screen like when you do

  things you actually see the white

  windows arrow cursor appear right right


  russ played second before it uh it

  actually clicks through yep it you don't

  see that when you're using the

  touchscreen on the surface but it all it

  does kind of feel like that in the

  desktop not when you're using the native

  Metro apps but it just so walk

  why do you think they did because like

  this is the most confounding thing to me

  like I think i have my own thoughts on

  the surface without having played with

  that i think it's it's it's strange how

  much of the emphasis they're putting on

  the keyboard of it's just

  you know it's the same thing as a laptop

  essentially but i think that the real

  problem that Microsoft will have is this

  this weird dichotomy between the don't

  call it metro metro interface and the

  old-school interface and I don't know


  well i dunno why there's no compromise

  right and quote unquote no compromise as

  to why they they merge the two together

  but how do people not understand because

  every review that I've read about it now

  is saying the same thing that you're

  saying like just the there's two big of

  a leap between the two of them so how in

  the years leading up to this development

  of this and just in the months leading

  up to the release of it

  how do people inside Microsoft who are

  playing with this thing day in and day

  out realize that they just shouldn't

  release that part of it just like either

  bring it on later postponed do something

  but like if it's just not up to par why

  are they doing that is it is it because

  they couldn't get office nailed for

  surface for Windows RT in particular I

  mean is that it really don't know i

  guess so i guess that's the idea i'm the

  only thing I can think of is that they

  didn't have time to do a true pure metro

  i'm just going to keep calling metro

  because it's such a convenient during a

  Purim metro office thing that's

  compatible which is that that

  compatibility across you know if

  everybody's on the same version of

  office than these files will just work

  that they couldn't do that and that this

  was what they had to do and they didn't

  think they could sell a product without

  office you know whether it's really

  based on actual market research and

  people wouldn't buy it or it's just

  their internal bias that you know

  windows and office forever

  I don't know but I do feel like I feel

  like as long as you've started with this

  at this starting point of we're going to

  do two surfaces and Intel one and an arm

  one and let's just concede for the sake

  of argument right now that that's a good


  I don't know everyone will see how it

  plans out but let if you start with that

  idea though

  then why not take the liberty of saying

  with the arm one were only going to do

  metro even if it doesn't have office to

  start because if all right hey we hear

  you if office is your thing


  this one the pro one yes exactly that's

  exactly right and that's so obvious and

  how why did they not do that I just it's

  very perplexing I don't rightly don't

  understand we hear you we know you love

  office we are we have all sorts of ideas

  for the future of office and we could

  not be working harder on it we have

  great stuff coming next year and the

  year after forearm but right now if if

  if office is a deal-breaker for you and

  we hear you we know that's why you

  didn't buy other competing tablets but

  here's the one you want this one and

  it's an intel-based system you know and

  it'll run officers you know i I just I

  don't know it does stick out a little


  the other thing i noticed was that the

  browser and then again this is something

  i had this was my my guests coming in

  and it's backed up by using him i used a

  lot of the browser and the hands-on area

  is it's just it like WebKit has passed

  IE it is you know if what are they even

  using what are what do they use this

  like it's some sort of you know that

  they've done with the IE rendering

  engine what Apple's done with WebKit is

  make a mobile touch version of it and

  it's not bad it is

  you know you know you can click and

  scroll but it's it's just not WebKit it

  reminds me of being a Mac user back in

  like 1999 2000 2001 when you know there

  are all sorts of reasons why stuck with

  the mac and i still thought the max

  brother better in many ways but web

  browsing clearly was not one that you

  were at second class citizen on the web

  even will wherever your favorite MAC web

  browser was you were not getting the

  fastest the highest fidelity rendering

  and that's what it feels like on surface

  like the big 12 me was I wanted to open

  something in a new tab so I saw a link

  to open an attachment that well what how

  do i do that and what's got to be tap

  and hold so I tapped him held and then

  nothing happened and I thought I don't

  know what to do and we just couldn't fit

  me in clayton moore so we just couldn't

  figure it out and then we asked a guy he

  said you just tap and hold we just

  weren't holding long

  enough and it just was like the amount

  of time you have to hold seems too long

  and there's a weird i don't know it's

  almost like a mode switch I don't know

  it's just the feel of it is off it just

  like you have to hold your finger there

  way too long to get that context menu up

  and then once you do it you can open a

  new tab and what about a third party

  apps were there any on on the one you

  played with i'm trying to think I try to

  think what counts as third-party they

  had the new skype but that's not third

  party because that's micros right now

  oh yeah they did have some third-party

  stuff they had like some media stuff

  they had like a new york times app I

  yeah they had to contend and I think it

  was a lot of media stuff too and this

  weird stuff to where they're just not as

  polished example so they had pre-loaded

  on it was the kindle app yeah they did a

  third party apps they had the kindle app

  pre-loaded but no books I that's kind of


  yeah but you know and that meant that we

  can I mean I'm not gonna put my right

  I'm not gonna log in with my amazon

  credentials on the demo unit on area

  right only get a certain number of

  devices ya and I'm not gonna lock one up

  on this but it just seems like a weird

  thing like this funny now and I got sure

  the i'm sure the menus on that can

  deliver great though they were you could

  just you could just tell how much work

  was put into those those a those menus

  no you couldn't see an actual book and

  you know the new york times app looked

  good it didn't look it wasn't quite as

  good as the the ipad one and it didn't

  have custom fonts like the ipad 1 which

  really brands that ipad new york times

  app is very new york times e because it

  shares the same font as the print

  edition Ron but it was it was nicer than

  reading the near it was you know just

  like with the you know what apps should

  be it was nicer than reading the New

  York Times in a web browser so what did

  you think of the keyboards that I I i

  just cannot i can't judge the touch one

  because it's is I'm just going to say

  that i didn't spend enough time but in

  the time that i did spend on it my

  typing was horrendous

  i typed way worse i typed fine on the

  on-screen keep so i tried three


  by the touch cover keyboard the one

  that's like magic capacitive hardware

  keyboard I tied the actual classic

  clicky keyboard cover and add the

  on-screen keyboard the on-screen

  keyboard was great i would say it was on

  par with ipad you know for on screen

  typing and in a way that all of the

  muscle memory I have from typing on an

  iPad carried right over and it was you

  know it was good i think windows phone

  has a good on-screen keyboard

  yeah and when i've used Windows Phone

  it's you know it has been very very

  friendly to my iphone i visualized

  thumbs so that's good i think that's

  when the clicky keyboard really nice i

  think i think that you did you know

  something like that you could sell for

  the ipad would be a huge hit it is seems

  like a very nice compromise between

  making it thick enough that the keys can

  actually move a little and keeping it

  thin enough that it's not making your

  tablet you know as thick as a notebook

  is it uh have you have used the logitech

  14 logic than one for the ipad yes I in

  fact i did at I know you're a huge fan

  of that I got to use it at singleton and

  I'm drawing a blank on who the kind of

  is a well who r idea is a regular

  listener the talk show and I'm drawing a

  blank on your name but thank you for

  letting me try it and yeah it's nice its

  equivalent to that but it's a slicker

  it's a slicker integration with the way

  that you know that the microsoft one is

  magnetizes and you don't know you go

  through bluetooth pairing or anything

  like that

  ok that it's nice and what about the the

  thing at the but like it has the touch

  element at the bottom-right the trackpad


  yeah when you have it on you get a mouse

  cursor on screen mouse cursor just

  appears on screen when it's connected

  and and you know you have a trackpad I

  thought the one on the the clicky

  keyboard cover worked better than the

  one on the touch one I thought the touch

  when it was I thought I don't know to me

  it's a funny demo but it really doesn't

  seem like a good product

  I just wasn't good for typing for me but

  maybe if you're used to it you maybe if

  you give it a long time you get used to

  it but am i right in thinking that you

  still can't rest your hands on the keys

  your fingers on the keys with the touch

  one itsy

  I ran into some problems with that it's

  it's definitely not that you can't you

  know you can do it and sometimes it just

  sometimes it would register touches and

  sometimes it wouldn't and I think you're

  supposed to be able to rest your fingers

  on it but I was definitely running into

  problems and I was absolutely missing

  like the big problem I was having it's

  just missing letters and the other thing


  here's the big thing for me is that

  here's the big thing for me is that

  typing on the keyboard one is exactly

  what you think you're just typing on it

  you know a relatively small but like

  ipad style clicky keyboard and i did

  just fine

  typing on the actual screen just like

  with iOS and like Windows Phone it does

  a lot of auto correction work as your

  type in and it's always trying to make

  suggestions and it's using a dictionary

  and it's doing a really smart job and

  there's an animation when it does when

  it in you know sees that i spelled you

  know sigler sigl ER it knows that you're

  in my contact dictionary and takes a

  guess that i wanted i wanted to put an

  extra in there to get your name right

  and you see a little animation nice nice

  the thing that i found was using the

  touch keyboard the touch cover keyboard

  it treats it like a hardware keyboard

  where it's not in that aggressive auto

  correct mode and I really needed it to

  be like I was you know i would type the

  new year

  I wouldn't be teenagers I would just get

  th and the e wasn't even there

  ah that's an interesting point because

  that seems like it makes some sense

  because the touch keyboard is

  essentially a soft keyboard like you

  would find on a screen but they've made

  it of an actual tangible product and

  it's right in between a fit the actual

  physical keyboard and the the soft yeah

  we're on screen right so you think they

  just obviously decided to go with it

  being more like the the nice actual

  keyboard rather than the on-screen one

  but they should have probably done it

  more like the on-screen with software

  exactly that is a perfect encapsulation

  when I was trying to say and maybe they

  can fix that and software maybe it you

  know they can just sort of switch to

  that mode and get into that and there is

  a clear advantage to that if they could

  get it to work out which is that when

  you're using an on-screen keyboard on a

  tablet half the screen is covered by the

  keyboard whereas you for using the

  softcover you know you have the whole

  screen available

  you got it really needs that I think it

  needs to be treated software-wise like a

  software keyboard where we're going to

  guess that you're going to make a lot of

  mistakes and you know even the logitech

  one with ios6 now they do the the

  autocorrection element in this

  42 even with physical keyboard and its

  really nice I mean you know you're not

  gonna make it nearly as many typing


  yeah using the physical keyboard but

  they still do the software on aspect

  yeah I'm actually not sure why they

  don't why they do turn that off for the

  keyboard i guess the ideas i don't know

  i guess that if you're annoyed you know

  if you really are typing something you

  want to be precise that autocorrect is

  I'm gonna work you know if you're typing

  code or something like that

  I'm I don't know existed but it didn't

  it didn't it i don't know i wouldn't go

  after Justin a half an hour if I were

  going to buy 1i would get the clicky

  keyboard and that's and it's expensive

  right it's like a hundred and sometimes

  yeah but it's not that much more

  expensive than the touch one the touch

  one day expensive you know and it just

  seems like another case of Microsoft not

  making a decision for you but letting

  you make the decision to close to

  telling you what's best

  all right letting you figure out what's

  best and Iran date have with the with

  the pricing right the cheapest one does

  not come with a keyboard at all but then

  i have bundles that start coming with

  them right right but it's the touch one

  I believe

  yeah i think so i think they're they

  seem to be kind of pushing the touch one

  and i kind of i am in my experience

  tinkering around with an hour i think

  they're going the wrong way on that I

  feel like if you want to keyboard and

  you're going to buy an expensive cover

  that you know relatively expensive cover

  that combines the cover with the


  I don't know I feel like if you're that

  into typing you want that clicky

  one-armed I never let her definitely

  makes a better first impression because

  anybody goes into one of these microsoft

  stores to buy one is not if you're going

  to spend last time with it than I did

  and it is you know if I didn't do that

  well on the touch cover typing I don't

  see how a typical consumer would compare

  to the clicky 1i have heard good things

  about the kickstand itself and how much

  you played with that yeah it's just it

  seems good it's there the old one and

  only hit and I and it was funny because

  I thought it and I just other people

  coming out it just seemed like everybody

  was saying the same thing was that and

  it seems like one of those things that

  the strikes through the first five

  minutes to use it and maybe once you

  know then you get used to it it's not a

  problem but there's only a little little

  tick mark for your like fingernail to go

  into separate it it's only on the one


  it ok so if you go to the 1i think it's

  you know if you're facing the screen

  it's on the right i think behind it and

  it's really easy just kind of stick your

  thumb nail in there and give it a little

  little flick and it just pops right out

  and if you go to the other side it's

  like you can't get it open but I think

  once you realize that you go to this

  side to do it would and you know it is

  it absolutely does feel very

  well-crafted and it feels like something

  that is built to last that if he buy one

  and use it all the time eight months

  from now the kickstand is still gonna

  click open and click shut and stay shut

  its yeah it does seem that you know

  seems good

  what about the hardware itself that i've

  heard mixed reviews of people who played

  with that of this like they say the the

  quality of the build is nice but it's

  too bulky is that is that fair do you

  think it's hard to say because I was

  already three days into using my ipad

  mini trip right what did feel exact

  opposite of writing felt a little heavy

  but it felt roughly ipad shaped I i

  guess the other thing that really struck

  me i had built quality was good and you

  know Intendant maybe not quite well i

  would say definitely not quite Apple

  quality it doesn't seem like that

  magnesium whatever they call it it does

  take that actually i think it's called

  yeah they ripped you off edge I

  definitely send you one they ripped off

  in here i'm marco wrote this when his

  store impressions is it feels like super

  nice plastic it is technically a metal

  but it feels like really good plastic

  and that's not even necessarily bad i

  love the polycarbonate plastic whatever

  they call it that Nokia is using on the

  Lumias it's really really high quality

  stuff i wouldn't be surprised if someday

  Apple you know put out a thing that uses

  something that is technically a plastic

  and plastic doesn't necessarily mean

  junkie right but it's you know it's just

  not maybe not quite as nice

  Marco also had the comment and i agree

  with that were by putting all these

  extra ports on it it it jumps up the

  feel of it it makes it right it has a

  u.s. USB poor SD cards if yeah I think

  it does

  yeah yeah yeah you know Apple obviously

  they actually made a point with this

  with this this latest revision to the to

  the regular ipad right that they now

  have even more peripherals to be able to

  they actually gave me a few of them to

  debt to test out like an SD card reader

  the Lightning to SD card reader

  lightning to USB you know that's that's

  a little bit of the of annoyance if

  you're going to use I guess an SD card

  reader USB all the time but how often

  are you

  I mean I never use any of that stuff

  with the ipad so I don't know it just

  seems like a little but it's you know

  that's what maybe that's what appeals to

  the people who don't want to buy an ipad

  those they want to ensure even if they

  aren't going to end up using it they

  wanted their other thing that really

  struck me is it always strikes me when I

  use a 69 tablet is that it seems like it

  only ever wants to be used in landscape

  holding it in portrait just seems so

  yeah it looks weird it looks with from

  the the pictures I've seen it looks like

  it's it's like almost top-heavy that

  you're going you know you need to you're

  like it getting ready to ride on a

  surfboard and it just looks like a

  really weird format to read something

  like a magazine or a book where I always

  hold it on my iPad hold it in portrait

  and it just seems like you're so off

  from the proportions of a regular piece

  of paper or book that it just seems way

  too skinny and you know look at the way

  you know that's got this built-in

  kickstand that only works in one right


  it just seems like it wants to be held

  that way as opposed to the ipad sort of

  i don't even care if you hold it upside

  down sort of at ambivalence towards how

  you hold it

  that was the other thing that's that

  struck me about the surface

  I know you got to assume but i do i'm

  going to have one more thing I want to

  talk about forestall stuff but before I

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  forestall and then we'll get we'll get

  out here right so this is this is big

  bombshell were you surprised i will say

  that i was not armed

  I was surprised at the timing of it but

  I was not surprised overall just

  everything that I've heard in the past

  year or so has been that things were

  eventually going to come to this horse

  or the other way right that there needed

  to be some kind of resolution of sort of

  the internal conflicts within the within

  the company and I don't know if you read

  the thing today i think it was i did da

  all things D talking about more of the

  information of why mansfield went from

  retiring to not retiring now i'm back

  for two years

  No supposedly they are according to

  their sources and I haven't heard this

  directly but that mansfield had an

  actual real beef with forestall as well

  and he wasn't going to

  se me or him but that the fact that

  forestall is now out led to him directly

  coming back in full force

  huh yeah the way I've put it to people

  is I was surprised but not shocked you

  know and you know and and somebody on

  Twitter and pointed this out and I do

  think it's I think it may be really be

  very it sounds a little glib but i think

  it actually might be kind of insightful

  is that this might be the first major

  situation with Apple wear this wouldn't

  have happened if Steve Jobs was still


  yeah right i mean they had the same they

  had the same design aesthetic taste


  and obviously this was this guy from

  next they've been together for a long

  time and yeah that I never didn't get

  along with the other executives it was

  ok under steve because that's the sort

  of thing that Steve had a true genius

  for a gift

  was I making it just putting it all

  together bring you know you're all that

  matters is that you guys are all

  talented and very very smart and I will

  make this work I my personality you know

  this is the perfect of students here are

  his personality i should say is so

  strong was so strong that it could patch

  over any personality clashes from the P

  anybody under him because his own his

  personality was just so dominant and

  yeah out that there's there's just you

  know and i don't think it's an

  indictment of tim cook i think it right

  an acknowledgement again speaks to jobs

  in right that may be the worst thing

  would have been for you know again for

  Tim Cook's used to sort of credit be

  Steve Jobs and and try to think that he

  can do that same thing

  yeah and someone someone had a great

  comment this morning i think it was on

  there i started my tumblr feed actually

  but it was um it was going back in

  referencing what cook said at the

  memorial for jobs which was of course

  the line that you know don't don't think

  about don't worry about what i would do

  just do what's right and you know this

  is like the first time where cook is

  doing something that jobs would probably

  not have

  on but it is the right thing to do for

  apple in the current state of apple

  right maybe a better way to put it isn't

  it Steve Jobs wouldn't have done it but

  that he wouldn't have had to do it

  yes yes that is that's exactly right i

  think i mean because the thing is this

  is I mean the things that are kind of

  doesn't even seem to be any any argument

  over is that forestall was one of the

  words divisive and that he was ambitious

  and yet that he guarded his I don't want

  to be pejorative here because I honestly

  don't have the beef with the guy I was

  going to say fiefdom but I fiefdom seems

  to imply i don't want to impugn any sort

  of negative political aspirations on him

  but he did I mean he had iOS was his

  fiefdom and he ruled over it and to his

  credit you know a lot of I think there's

  been a lot of yet kind of negativity

  around him and certainly it seems like

  something that was justified but there's

  you know I mean he is the guy who made

  iOS what it is now and there's no

  disputing that that's an incredible feat

  and maybe he couldn't have done that

  without being so passionate about the

  way that he you know viewed that iOS had

  to go and jobs of course you know had

  the had the ultimate say in the matter

  but it was a you know by all accounts it

  was forced all remember when they were

  thinking about how to do the you know

  the stories that year now and everything

  about how to do the iphone they're

  considering using you know just some

  random kind of generic ipod like OS that

  wasn't at all related to that was the

  only cemented Tony Fadell side of it and

  that takes that effectively that sealed

  his fate for ya forestall and and my

  understanding of the choices for stolen

  and Bertrand sir lay on on on that side

  on the we should we can do this we can

  use OS 10 we can take the next step

  stuff and make days might you know take

  strip it down and we can use this in a

  phone and it's going to be great and if

  we get it we're going to have this great

  app development framework already there

  ready to go and it was Fidel and and I

  think maybe Rubenstein on the other side

  saying yeah she doesn't like a

  you know like an iphone effective it

  would be like the OS that they have in

  the ipod nano right right and you know

  so i definitely like you said that

  sealed Fidel's fate that you know that

  that he won and you know look at where

  Apple is from there I mean and you know

  who know I mean I you know who knows how

  many other people in that argument I

  mean to be a great story to hear some

  day from the insiders really would be

  maybe the greatest story of the last 15

  years of Apple to hear because you know

  apple before the iphone was doing just

  fine but they were not a sensation and

  apple after the iphone has become the

  biggest corporations in the world and

  write it really did seem to come down to

  a very very tough decision on Steve Jobs

  part you know and that forestall was if

  not the leading proponent one of only

  two on that side of the you know it of

  the argument and like you said the end

  of five years since I OS has been great

  it really has you nobody can take that

  away from him I mean and you know so now

  you think about going forward on what

  this means exactly and it's impossible

  to know that right now but i think that

  it i think that some of the criticism of

  iOS has been fair that they're it's been

  so much polish and polish and polish and

  they haven't really taken any risks with

  the with the operating system in the

  past few years and i think at first

  that's absolutely understandable and I

  think that's helped them in many ways

  because it is so polished now but how

  much more can you polish and how much

  more can you change ios6 you know there

  were differences of course with with iOS

  5 but mainly seems like polish Polish

  polish and so now does this change that

  do we get something that's that's going

  to be the most significant departure

  since kind of the beginning of it

  yeah i think the big question mark in

  this as it goes forward I don't think

  anybody really has a problem with Johnny

  I've taking over software thi

  across-the-board I think that's super


  I i really do think that's going to work

  out well for Apple but you don't know

  though because he hasn't done it before

  you don't know i think the ? that was

  federighi is yeah you know in charge now

  and everybody you know seems to think I

  think mountain lion turned out really

  well so I know and I think everybody

  inside the company i think is regarded

  as having successfully led that project

  now and he's I mean he's just ascended

  so quickly right he was he was just

  elevated to SVP in that last in that

  last round and now all of a sudden

  well is he gonna be able to his mac OS

  10 going to keep going forward at this

  enjoyable pace that it's been going at

  while he's also got OS to be responsible

  for because clearly you know if one's

  gonna have to slip it's still going to

  be Mac os10 of course I mean is he going

  to do what you just said which is sort

  of not just keep polishing iOS but is he

  gonna be able to make take iOS and give

  it a oh wow look with that you know sort

  of right and moving the entire the idea

  of what mobile OS four is forward also

  you know last year obviously all of us

  were surprised with OS 10 mountain lion

  because we just didn't expect it so soon

  and an apple legitimately surprised

  everyone with it

  are they still are they going to do that

  again how far into development does this

  is the iOS coming under federal change

  that and you know one question i kept

  getting was what does that mean for ios7

  you have to assume that it was already

  well into development right

  does this change knock that out i can't

  imagine that they won't do something at

  WWDC still this year right they go I

  think either got to yeah the guys who

  write well one thing and you know and

  and i'm sure people who are really

  deeply inside maybe I'm way off the base

  here but my understanding is that away a

  lot of this stuff works is that

  everybody you know is on teams and teams

  are all relatively small and have a

  relatively direct and clear chain of

  command you know that the team reports

  to somebody a manager and the manager

  probably reported directly to forestall

  if you're working on something related

  to iOS and you know if your team has

  something that's ready to ship or looks

  like it's ready to ship there's like a

  list of here's the stuff we might now

  with here's what we've got to start

  tying the line for what's going to be

  iOS 7 and there's this team and that

  team in that too

  and you know so I don't know that it's

  you know it may not really be a setback

  for you know if you're still being gone

  because it's these teams that are doing

  stuff and now it's somebody else is

  going to be making these decisions about

  this is ready for this should be ready

  let's let's green light that this for

  next year you know but here's what

  you've got to do by here's what i want

  to see by next week you know in terms of

  getting this to to where we can actually

  ship it all right you know i don't think

  you should think of it as a entire you

  know that the entire iOS is just like a

  single product or write that has to be

  and had a team of a hundred people

  working on it it's more like it's 20 30

  different little things that each have a

  team of three or four people working on

  it all right you know the biggest

  question I think that both of us have

  gotten is that is the question of our

  that is this the end of the green felt

  are they can cure if the a skeuomorphism

  stuff uh I think I have no idea it seems

  like there was that report of Johnny I

  being against it

  well force always for it only seemed

  back I I don't think I mean diseases i

  think what we will see is a minor course

  correction with regard to skeuomorphism

  I think that it's a ship that's it

  slightly off course and a little bit

  bent a little bit toward the tacky as

  opposed to the cool i do not expect to

  see a radical 180-degree reverse in that

  I don't think that they're going to drop

  all textures I don't think they're going

  to drop everything I'm you know I think

  game center is an example of one where

  the skeuomorphism is fine

  I i actually think that you know making

  it look like a game is is actually

  pretty good or pretty apt I think it's

  like ical words you know it really get

  end is in addition to the fact that it

  just it it just gets in the way it's not

  just that it's ugly but that it makes it

  look like you can do things you can't do

  because it looks like a pad of paper but

  you can't treat it like a pad of paper a

  little arrow button to go to the next

  month you know it doesn't seem like it's

  genuine and to me that's where I think


  you know I can't speak for him obviously

  but everything he's ever said those

  about keeping things true and genuine to

  themselves and that's where things go

  wrong like I calton and address book or

  contacts whatever the entity called

  contacts now that's right those are apps

  with me the skeuomorphism is wrong not

  because of weather it looks good or not

  because it just seems to make the apps

  harder to use yeah

  yep and the one that people keep coming

  to now recently as the shredder via of

  the passbook thing right

  like people just seem to hate that with

  the past don't know why don't you see I

  longer to delete i guesses the gas and i

  don't know but i don't know if i would

  expect things like that to go away you

  know and for example the podcast app

  with the reel-to-reel making a rent a

  skewer morphic reel-to-reel thing isn't

  necessarily in and of itself a bad idea

  as long as usability why's it provides

  you a very effective direct way of

  skipping around the timeline of the

  podcast if it doesn't you know too bad

  it's bad it's the you it's how it works

  that matters and if if it works really

  well but looks skeuomorphic to some

  degree that's still good

  I would not expect a radical revision if

  you think that iOS 7 is going to come

  out looking like like all glass or

  something yeah you know some kind of you

  know just like windows 8 but with round

  Rex instead of shopping cart cornerbacks

  you're not it's you know I don't think

  anything radical is going to change arm

  and you know one thing you and I talked

  about briefly after the the events last

  week was the timing elements of this and

  how this all plays and obviously we

  didn't know about the the huge shake up

  from the exact time level at that at

  that point but it's sort of it makes it

  more interesting right because now Apple

  has fully aligned itself with all of its

  products to be in this this kind of fall

  q1 quarter that they're going to be

  shipping all the stuff so do they now

  take off six takeoff quote-unquote six

  months of releases and not do anything

  not even say anything again until WWDC

  because we have this new ipad now the

  fortune it seems like they're not going

  to do something it seems likely they

  won't do something in march now which

  they typically do for the ipad

  and you know it seems like TV where

  wherever that so stowaways off so you

  know maybe they do something with OS 10

  like they did last year in between but

  maybe they don't and maybe maybe that's

  good for the timing of all this exact

  shake-up stuff right because now all the

  they have some time to make sure that

  everything is a line from the top down

  and they keep working on what they've

  been working out of course but you know

  they have time just not suit so have to

  rush to get anything done

  I agree with everything you just said

  what I feel like this is in hindsight a

  remarkably perfect time for cook to

  execute this move because like it was

  said it's all the stuff is lined up now

  for this holiday quarter which is still

  disproportionately apples most important

  quarter right and you know if these guys

  have new responsibilities and it might

  take a lot of shake out they've got the

  time now to do it and I almost felt like

  it read like that in cooks statement

  about it or he's just said like what

  this has been a tremendous you know run

  for Apple we've just released the ipod

  ipad mini 4 generation I ipad i met you

  know new retina macbook new ipods iphone

  5s cetera and so he just like kind of

  like we've done a lot in the past few

  months and so you know now it's time to

  kind of re-evaluate what what we've done

  where we're going and we think that

  these changes will help streamline our

  process going forward

  now i really do mean and and and talking

  to people last week that the euphemistic

  though it was the headliner that PR

  really was what it was all about this

  nikki is about increasing collaboration

  and that's really what the problem was

  deemed to be with forestall was that

  forestall did his stuff and wasn't

  collaborating with the right like I

  didn't hearing about mansfield but now

  you're saying you know I believe it

  though and that he wasn't what I heard I

  heard that like for example that four

  stalls team you know the iOS team kept

  Schiller's product marketing division in

  the dark about everything until the last

  possible minute and that there's just no

  no back and forth between Schiller's

  product marketing division

  and four stalls iOS division and that

  those two guys just did not get along

  I mean and it wasn't just like one or

  two incidents it was like institutional

  intransigence that the no.4 sales team

  just wasn't collaborating with product


  I mean that you know collaboration is

  the word and it just wasn't there and

  you know the the other element that we

  haven't even hit on yet is of course the

  the map situation and to a lesser extent

  sirree but you know there's been issues

  with both and both were under forestall

  and now interestingly enough both aren't

  transferring under federal either going

  to any Q so they're gonna be in the you

  know more along the lines of the

  services and content division and that

  seems like the right move to make

  but you know I think that the fact that

  Apple highlighted that also in the

  release says what you needed to know and

  what of course was then reported

  afterwards that you know of course for

  starters any RQ is like The Fixer is

  they're always like the guy who takes

  like all right this here's this thing

  that's garbage

  Eddie get your boots on great because it

  and people are gave me some stuff some

  you know like commodities in charge of

  iCloud I clouds are decorated like I

  clouds actually pretty good

  and remember it really is names change

  but it really is the evolution of

  mobileme I mean he's already been using

  you know good

  yeah and he wasn't in charge you know

  that the mobileme that was the

  disastrous initial like 2008 mobileme

  and nothing to do it he was just running

  the itunes store he was given something

  that was like a probably the most famous

  disaster in the apples recent decade you

  know it

  Steve Jobs tie right in front of the

  entire company about it being you know

  this is embarrassing you know here at eq

  go fix it and he did is you know it's

  it's really you know it's gone from this

  hundred-dollar you're paid thing that

  nobody liked to a free thing with

  millions but maybe a hundred million

  users that's that's working pretty well

  so yeah yeah he's really become a fix-it


  hairy man yeah take naps please and

  figure out what to do with that but uh

  there was there was actually good story

  about him too i think was yesterday and

  seen that I think it's greg sandoval

  wrote about

  and accuse relationship now I mean Q

  also is the one now it seems like doing

  these uh doing the Steve Jobs types

  meetings with the the content exact

  right and just is going to all these

  things and in playing hardball it seems

  like by all know I do think that's all I

  do think that is I think he was very

  much involved with alongside Steve Jobs

  but that right you know without Steve

  that it's down to Eddie and he's still

  doing a really good job and clearly

  leading any of apples competitors in

  terms of worldwide distribution rights

  of everything you know everything other

  than books and even more general they're

  a very nice second place to Amazon yeah

  and even with all the legal issues going

  on right now they're still you know

  still doing pretty well there are the

  Mansfield thing strikes me as

  particularly big though like you know

  obviously he was retiring and then a few

  weeks later there was the report that

  they just threw a ton of money at him to

  come back and at least you know help

  transition the hardware team or whatever

  and then now he has a completely new

  role talking about the kind of vague

  working in wireless technologies and

  also the chip side of things right so

  he's a his reputation with our company

  was stellar

  I mean is your reputation of right and

  just kicking ass and doing really good

  work that comes out on time on price you

  know yet unbelievable

  and you know and and i think the other

  thing too is not just a wireless the big

  thing is that he's also in charge of the

  semi-conductor group and I think you

  know a lot of people have written about

  it but Apple taking more and more

  ownership over the chip production of

  the systems on a chip is at every year

  now ever since they started it with the

  the I the original ipad right that was

  the first day for ya

  I ever since then the a5 was more apple

  controlled in the a4 and now the a6 is

  entirely custom apple design

  yeah you know which our friends at a

  non-tech of have done it you know 8th

  DoublePlay us job the examining and

  that's it's a huge deal and it's all

  mansfield now at least 42 years that's

  kind of interesting that he has a two

  year timeline but yeah that's good yeah

  I still think you know it's interesting

  and I do think you know my friend guy

  English said but he's written about it

  and he's you know it said that this is

  just another example of it that still

  this whole thing no shows that the

  biggest risk for Apple over the next

  five to ten years is a retention of

  talent right at the top and at the

  engineering rings and that's the other

  the other under the surface thing is how

  many people I and I know there are some

  there's no doubt about it make no

  mistake that's not like forestall was

  universally hated within Apple there are

  people who worked for for so who are

  very very loyal to him and what happens

  to them now

  like is there going to be a talent loss

  underneath him

  yeah well we'll see i mean it is it may

  depend on where he lands I mean if he if

  he gets another high-profile job and

  maybe he brings over some of his people

  with them you know that they're

  typically what tends to happen and so I

  think that but they're saying right now

  that what he's he's he's a special

  adviser just like Fidel was before him

  and he's going to be with the company

  for another year or something like that

  so right yeah all right well I want to

  thank you mgc were for being here i want

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