14: You’re Not Gonna Name Him Fuzzbutt, with Craig Hockenberry
◼
►
I've got two things that I'm obsessed
◼
►
with this week i'm obsessed with with
◼
►
twitter and what they're doing with
◼
►
their api and and I remain obsessed with
◼
►
the retina macbook pro yeah what it
◼
►
means for software and I've
◼
►
coincidentally been working on both of
◼
►
those things you're a perfect guest I
◼
►
Craig Hockenberry for for this week's
◼
►
you've got twitterrific know the twitter
◼
►
client for every single platform that
◼
►
comes from apple and you're working on a
◼
►
upgrade to xscope which is how you how
◼
►
would you pitch xscope and not uh it's a
◼
►
tool for developers and designers to
◼
►
make sure everything that they see
◼
►
on-screen is what they expect its let
◼
►
you test some sample i use the losing
◼
►
ground loop is what I use all the time I
◼
►
know there's other tools rulers you can
◼
►
snap things to guide you can make things
◼
►
exactly you know you'd but the loop is
◼
►
what I mean that's like a magnifying
◼
►
yeah it is that the loop is is probably
◼
►
one of my most used tools as well
◼
►
because you know the design or something
◼
►
is your comp a photo composition or
◼
►
something like that and you know you
◼
►
gotta make sure that this button is
◼
►
really you know five pixels over from
◼
►
this line and and that kind of thing
◼
►
what you want to talk about first
◼
►
probably best to talk about Twitter ok
◼
►
that's the thing that the the most
◼
►
people are concerned about these days
◼
►
and you you've had a lot to say and I
◼
►
know like and I I thought it was notable
◼
►
because he called it out large our
◼
►
friend Lex Friedman over at macworld had
◼
►
an article where you kind of went around
◼
►
and talked to several twitter client
◼
►
developers but then he called out in
◼
►
particular upfront and i thought was
◼
►
notable was that he said a number of
◼
►
twitter client developers simply did not
◼
►
want to speak on the record because they
◼
►
feel relations are so frayed between
◼
►
client developers and Twitter itself
◼
►
that they just don't even want it
◼
►
there's only one their name on anything
◼
►
now you you did speak that right
◼
►
yea though i was very carefully chosen
◼
►
I that the problem for for me and for
◼
►
that the company is that we have a good
◼
►
relationship with twitter over the years
◼
►
right it's like that it's been a
◼
►
symbiotic relationship you know we've
◼
►
helped them you know in the very early
◼
►
days you know things like coming up with
◼
►
the bird logo right coming up with a
◼
►
I mean we have substantially contributed
◼
►
to their ecosystem right and they give
◼
►
us a platform to make a product which we
◼
►
make money off of i would go further
◼
►
than that too though and I mean this
◼
►
sincerely not because you're hearing
◼
►
blowing smoke up your butt but that I
◼
►
really do feel though that with the
◼
►
initial twitterrific for iphone you
◼
►
really well actually i think it probably
◼
►
goes back to the one for the mac
◼
►
actually because I was the first version
◼
►
of twitter if it was the mac only client
◼
►
and and I i think that you really really
◼
►
simplified and focused on what a minimal
◼
►
incoming stream of information from
◼
►
Twitter could be presented as right
◼
►
they're in which i think was very
◼
►
different than what you were getting at
◼
►
the time from twitter.com on the web and
◼
►
and like you said I definitely think
◼
►
that that certainly for you but i would
◼
►
say you guys are emblematic of the
◼
►
client developer community as a whole
◼
►
that it's been a symbiotic relationship
◼
►
yeah yeah and you know I if the the API
◼
►
guidelines that they announced the post
◼
►
last week it everybody's going to be
◼
►
fine in the short term right but the
◼
►
tweet pot and I've talked to pod and
◼
►
unity pots coming you know they're fine
◼
►
in the short term like this is the thing
◼
►
that I pointed out the election sake
◼
►
nobody needs to worry about their
◼
►
favorite third-party twitter client for
◼
►
key word there is for now I there they
◼
►
built a fence around us right we can't
◼
►
grow beyond a certain amount and
◼
►
you know luckily that amount is is
◼
►
fairly large right now and I think that
◼
►
they were that they thought very long
◼
►
and hard about how that fence should be
◼
►
constructed but you know regardless
◼
►
there's a fence there now it's a very
◼
►
weird restriction and more i think about
◼
►
the more weird i find that because I
◼
►
think I can't think of any other
◼
►
platform where the platform owner and
◼
►
and again I don't want to be accused of
◼
►
hypocrisy for saying that Twitter
◼
►
shouldn't wield any control over their
◼
►
thing yet I accept that Apple wield
◼
►
significant control over the app store I
◼
►
I don't think I'm being hypocritical
◼
►
about this because I at least understand
◼
►
apples motivations for the control that
◼
►
they will I don't understand what
◼
►
Twitter is trying to do here and with
◼
►
the limit i guess on what I guess the
◼
►
idea what the limit is if they put a
◼
►
limit on it no single client could ever
◼
►
grow so large that it would rival
◼
►
yeah that kept me is it's it's but the
◼
►
the restrictions for based upon fear arm
◼
►
they fear something becoming you know
◼
►
right now that the third-party clients
◼
►
are small small percentage of of twitter
◼
►
right that the average person goes and
◼
►
gets the the Twitter branded client
◼
►
they're happy with it everything's great
◼
►
or they use the website again that's you
◼
►
know that's fine as far as we're
◼
►
concerned you know it's only the the
◼
►
power users and the you know people have
◼
►
been using Twitter a long time that that
◼
►
really even know that the third-party
◼
►
clients exist and you know why they want
◼
►
them armed but it's it's it's pretty
◼
►
clear to me that that promoted tweets
◼
►
are going to be a part of this you know
◼
►
1.1 API right there are going to be ad
◼
►
start showing up in the timelines and
◼
►
your Twitter's fear is that you know
◼
►
that small percentage now could turn
◼
►
into a pretty huge percentage if people
◼
►
if they start getting aggressive with
◼
►
the promoted tweets and people start
◼
►
getting pissed off you know they're
◼
►
gonna I don't want this crap you know
◼
►
seeing you know I'm gonna go get a good
◼
►
tweetbot or twitterrific I see my
◼
►
thought on that is that I and this to me
◼
►
would be a perfectly reasonable
◼
►
restriction to me would be if they said
◼
►
look we're going to have these promoted
◼
►
tweets and you have to show them and so
◼
►
even if your twitter client has like a
◼
►
filter feature where you can put
◼
►
keywords in that filter out tweets or
◼
►
you can you know I i know some clients
◼
►
have like a blackout button where you
◼
►
can say God group is going on about a
◼
►
Yankees game black amount for 12 hours
◼
►
and then it doesn't show tweets from me
◼
►
for 12 hours and then all of a sudden
◼
►
you wake up in the morning and my tweets
◼
►
are back you don't have to remember to
◼
►
turn it off cool features like that very
◼
►
useful very smart clever but i would
◼
►
just say that the rule would be if it's
◼
►
a Promoted Tweet if it tweet it comes in
◼
►
with this Promoted Tweet metadata you
◼
►
have to show it regardless of you know
◼
►
filters or features or stuff like that
◼
►
and I to me i know some people would
◼
►
still complain about that because you
◼
►
cannot please enter some people who
◼
►
really wanted block ads the hell are
◼
►
yeah I team it would be but to me that
◼
►
would be perfectly reasonable that
◼
►
wasn't the problem then is how far do
◼
►
you go with those you know you must do
◼
►
this i mean what happened of cards come
◼
►
out right and the cars are there are
◼
►
there things with the the partners right
◼
►
in the partners you know some companies
◼
►
you know paid to have a card on Twitter
◼
►
right they want you to see it right and
◼
►
i remember that everything like that
◼
►
it's like a crap you know I don't want
◼
►
to add cards you know I don't really
◼
►
care about that right well and that's
◼
►
and that really gets to the heart of my
◼
►
fear about the future twitter because I
◼
►
one of the things I love about twitter
◼
►
is because it's extinct and it forces
◼
►
everybody to be 16 it it put it on the
◼
►
way it always feels like at least a bit
◼
►
of a chore to read my email and
◼
►
yeah never feels like a chore to go
◼
►
through my Twitter yeah you know and the
◼
►
busier I am or the longer it's been
◼
►
since I've checked maybe the faster i
◼
►
scroll and more i'm screaming what i'm
◼
►
at least looking at everything and
◼
►
because everything is that that's what I
◼
►
worry about cards ruling because a card
◼
►
in there all of a sudden like one tweet
◼
►
is the height of the screen
◼
►
yeah I got the phone at least and ipod I
◼
►
don't know what the interaction is going
◼
►
to be there it just it's it's weird
◼
►
because it its it's taking that small
◼
►
efficient piece of communication and
◼
►
blowing it up right right and blowing it
◼
►
up has many different combinations right
◼
►
making it bigger making it well and it's
◼
►
making a very very a very decided
◼
►
opinion about what the tweet should look
◼
►
whereas I think that part of the reason
◼
►
twitter has been such an innovative
◼
►
playground for user interfaces is that
◼
►
there it's really just been look it's a
◼
►
hundred and forty characters of text and
◼
►
a name yeah and-and-and if you want if
◼
►
you want their the name's avatar you
◼
►
know and yeah i do what you want with it
◼
►
so like for example I mean all the
◼
►
mobile clients aren't aware of when they
◼
►
are aware of the URL for like like a
◼
►
twitpic or any of these picture hosting
◼
►
services in the mobile they don't show
◼
►
the whole image by default because it
◼
►
would be too big in the screen is so
◼
►
small so they show a thumbnail and if
◼
►
you want to see it you tap it and it's
◼
►
another view like I I just think on a
◼
►
mobile boy that's how card should work
◼
►
is it should be something you you know
◼
►
shouldn't be something you put in the
◼
►
main timeline but I think that's what
◼
►
they want I think i'm not even sure it
◼
►
may be by the letter of the law that's
◼
►
what they're already demanding well
◼
►
that's that's that's the big question
◼
►
right now is that the other the-- they
◼
►
have that the guidelines right they've
◼
►
published guidelines understand that
◼
►
those are going to be requirements right
◼
►
well there's good there's always going
◼
►
to be some editing there right that they
◼
►
that they've been pretty open thing you
◼
►
know well okay the sum of the stuff is
◼
►
we're still trying to figure it out or
◼
►
yeah it wasn't worded quite right you
◼
►
know or maybe this wording is oriented
◼
►
towards people who are doing
◼
►
no tweets and line on a website vs
◼
►
people that are doing tweets and if a
◼
►
native app that there's obviously gonna
◼
►
be a lot of a work there on their end to
◼
►
turn those guidelines into requirements
◼
►
right and i think that a lot of that is
◼
►
the lot of those requirements are going
◼
►
to be about what they feel is important
◼
►
in the timeline regardless of what
◼
►
third-party clients thanks is important
◼
►
to be in the timeline right with the
◼
►
user limit and I think I mentioned this
◼
►
last week with Michael lot but I just
◼
►
keep thinking about is that it's such a
◼
►
weird constraint to put on developers
◼
►
and like i said i can't think of anybody
◼
►
else who's done it and even Apple who I
◼
►
think most people would hold up is the
◼
►
company that's most willing to stress
◼
►
its relationship with developers in the
◼
►
name of maintaining its own control over
◼
►
its platform doesn't place limits on how
◼
►
many how successful you can be right and
◼
►
that includes and you say well that's
◼
►
because they're taking thirty percent
◼
►
but that also includes free apps and
◼
►
here's a to me a perfect example of that
◼
►
is the amazon kindle app which is free
◼
►
download so apple doesn't make any money
◼
►
if anything Apple loses money because
◼
►
they're paying the bandwidth for the
◼
►
downloads of the candidate and the more
◼
►
people who download that two iphones and
◼
►
ipads the stronger the kindle rival to
◼
►
Apple's own ibooks platform gets yet
◼
►
there's no limit its not like well your
◼
►
own you know you can you can have
◼
►
500,000 downloads and then you've got to
◼
►
come to us and we're going to talk and
◼
►
it's you know if everybody that if every
◼
►
single iphone user download the kindle
◼
►
app that's ok alright but that's I think
◼
►
that's one of the things that makes me
◼
►
sad about that this new fence that we
◼
►
were dealing with this that
◼
►
it there's never going to be another
◼
►
great third-party twitter app right to
◼
►
horrific Tweety tweet bot that's it
◼
►
you're done right there there's you know
◼
►
some guy can sit down and say okay I'm
◼
►
going to write this awesome twitter app
◼
►
he's never gonna sell more than 200,000
◼
►
that's the bottom line and that's what
◼
►
Twitter wants and the economics of the
◼
►
app store in the competitive situation
◼
►
in terms of what you can get away with
◼
►
pricing yeah rap at it's just not that
◼
►
much money and nobody out areas going to
◼
►
say well if you charge for bucks its
◼
►
four hundred thousand dollars but the
◼
►
bottom line is that four hundred
◼
►
thousand dollars is not a lot of money
◼
►
because as you are well aware and our
◼
►
prime example of its even if you want
◼
►
even if you can get it all in the year
◼
►
if you could write the app and get honor
◼
►
thousand users in a year which it
◼
►
probably isn't gonna happen
◼
►
it's an ongoing relationship as you
◼
►
evolve with Twitter and keep the appt
◼
►
going on you've been working on some
◼
►
version of twitter if expense like
◼
►
2006-7 i think was the first version but
◼
►
yeah it's been a while so it's long
◼
►
enough not to remember when you started
◼
►
right so that HAP the cap x the pricing
◼
►
of apps is you know even if you think
◼
►
that a 400 500 thousand dollars a lot of
◼
►
money it's really not an especially
◼
►
since it's really really hard for one
◼
►
so yeah fighting it you know for it for
◼
►
top-shelf iOS app you spend a hundred
◼
►
two hundred thousand dollars i mean
◼
►
don't forget out with a 30-percent cut
◼
►
right i mean it right it's get sliced up
◼
►
yeah is it that's why say there's no and
◼
►
you're absolutely right about it being
◼
►
the UI playground right we found it very
◼
►
exciting to build what put our clients
◼
►
in fact that the new version that we're
◼
►
working on now it's got some really
◼
►
great innovations in it you know things
◼
►
that people are going to see and go over
◼
►
with me to put that on our appt right
◼
►
just like pull-to-refresh right right
◼
►
that can lauren put that in and like Oh
◼
►
started showing up everywhere now it's
◼
►
yeah it behaves a little bit differently
◼
►
in the OS but that the concept and
◼
►
everything is still there
◼
►
and and it's it's a good idea right and
◼
►
that would not have existed without with
◼
►
but without sweetie i also think and and
◼
►
again and this one may not be a pull to
◼
►
refresh I really was like that lauren
◼
►
lauren bennett that but like the first
◼
►
app I can remember that had infinite
◼
►
scroll was buzzes no it's not a bird
◼
►
hi-yah yet her feet yeah where you got
◼
►
to the bottom and the assumption was hey
◼
►
you've scrolled to the bottom one and I
◼
►
just show you more tweet for older
◼
►
tweets from the timeline you're in right
◼
►
mhm and it was you know it's like magic
◼
►
was like I don't have a little button
◼
►
I just scroll to the bottom it bounced
◼
►
and then buhay they just faded in 15
◼
►
yeah yeah that was a great client I its
◼
►
and you know it you know for every great
◼
►
Twitter third-party app that succeeded
◼
►
there's been a lot of other great ones
◼
►
that haven't right they it's been really
◼
►
interesting what five six years of of of
◼
►
Twitter clients and and a lot has
◼
►
happened over that time and that's again
◼
►
that's what makes me sad right that
◼
►
that's going to stop happening so here
◼
►
is a quote that lex had from an unnamed
◼
►
developer a developer who did not want
◼
►
to be named and i will do not believe to
◼
►
be you and i hope it's now I know why
◼
►
was I was that that that was one of them
◼
►
well you know today things you know as a
◼
►
distributed quote right like what people
◼
►
are gonna be getting all that guy's ok
◼
►
that's all but one thing I've learned
◼
►
over the years is that whenever you read
◼
►
an article that quote some people but
◼
►
has did not want to be mentioned also
◼
►
double check in your mind if it makes
◼
►
sense that one of the people quoted
◼
►
that said off the record because they've
◼
►
already spoken to the reporter so my
◼
►
thing is for a common but i'm saying its
◼
►
more common than you might think that
◼
►
somebody who is quoted by name
◼
►
will also then say ok that's it for the
◼
►
record you want me to say something off
◼
►
the idea that you want to watch you want
◼
►
some juice yeah right
◼
►
I so I just you know I didn't
◼
►
double-check I want to put your now tied
◼
►
with that was not me uh but he said that
◼
►
we pointed out that Twitter left the
◼
►
door open for developers by saying that
◼
►
once they hit the user caps it's not
◼
►
they don't say that's this and this is
◼
►
part of what really annoys me about that
◼
►
message is they don't say I would almost
◼
►
rather than say that's it you're done
◼
►
hit the bricks or something like it was
◼
►
so vague because it could have been
◼
►
anything but they more like I said once
◼
►
you hit the user limit and you got to
◼
►
come talk to us whenever but somebody's
◼
►
being vague like that it's their way of
◼
►
saying no they're afraid to say now
◼
►
well my other that has been my that's my
◼
►
take on it right if I got that's not
◼
►
my other thought though is that what
◼
►
they want to do is evaluate are you a
◼
►
threat is there a revenue-sharing thing
◼
►
I you know because and I I you know
◼
►
again I don't have a twitter client so
◼
►
it's a lot easier for me to say this
◼
►
then then you have a popular to a client
◼
►
might think about it but to me it would
◼
►
make it might make some sense that if
◼
►
you hit your user cap and you talked to
◼
►
Twitter that they might you if you're
◼
►
selling let's say four dollar twitter
◼
►
client that they might say okay we want
◼
►
ten percent of each sale
◼
►
henceforth you say you would you know
◼
►
you'd and your next hundred thousand
◼
►
users would cost you know couple
◼
►
thousand dollars and feeds to Twitter
◼
►
that's not what Twitter wants I don't
◼
►
want they don't want money from us they
◼
►
want money from advertisers right and
◼
►
advertisers don't like hearing well okay
◼
►
there's some people out there that don't
◼
►
see your ad because they've paid money
◼
►
right right there they want they want to
◼
►
reach every eyeball they want to force
◼
►
their message upon you
◼
►
right and that's what's going to happen
◼
►
right because that's and I guess that's
◼
►
what I keep banging my head up against
◼
►
is that there's all sorts of ways for
◼
►
twitter to monetize the whole thing what
◼
►
they already have in a nice way that's
◼
►
profitable but that there's very very
◼
►
few ways that they can monetize this
◼
►
way where they become like a hundred
◼
►
billion dollar valuation standalone
◼
►
mega-corporation another to another
◼
►
google or facebook our highway right
◼
►
it's it i would bet I i don't know i
◼
►
don't know this to be a fact that i
◼
►
would bet that there's a huge internal
◼
►
debate at Twitter between the developers
◼
►
and the business people write that the
◼
►
developers see the value in that
◼
►
openness in that letting you know
◼
►
letting the information flow and yeah
◼
►
you could make some money off of that
◼
►
flow of information right and the other
◼
►
than that it's totally monetizable they
◼
►
see the benefits and the dangers I think
◼
►
I think they see both sides that once
◼
►
you start closing this stuff off and say
◼
►
yeah you know if you don't need
◼
►
innovation from the outside and stuff
◼
►
like that that man you can really get
◼
►
you that's how you get blindsided by
◼
►
somebody else now and the end of you
◼
►
know that the the suits the business
◼
►
people look you know that the whole
◼
►
advertising is a very predictable thing
◼
►
right business people like
◼
►
predictability it's it's a it's a it's a
◼
►
proven thing right look at facebook is
◼
►
done Google's done it you know you have
◼
►
a popular channel you can make money off
◼
►
of the people that watch that channel
◼
►
I've told you the story about how tweet
◼
►
came about the word tweet i don't think
◼
►
yeah it's a the the first version of
◼
►
twitter if occur which we basically
◼
►
built the first version twitterrific
◼
►
behind a day gotta to a working state
◼
►
you know enough functionality to show to
◼
►
a designer kind of thing and they loved
◼
►
it we all immediately started using it
◼
►
internally and I don't have a problem on
◼
►
it's like you know I needed to come up
◼
►
with a noun for what you were doing with
◼
►
these things around are you an out right
◼
►
because because you could select
◼
►
something in that timeline and then what
◼
►
do you do with that selection that
◼
►
selection needed a name
◼
►
mm so i can start calling twits it was
◼
►
just like the just top of the head kind
◼
►
of thing and it kind of stuff but nobody
◼
►
nobody at all it was just like that's
◼
►
kind of meaning you know well because
◼
►
it's in it and us us english it's
◼
►
synonymous with a dimwit
◼
►
right exactly and the we have ever again
◼
►
back of symbiotic relationship with
◼
►
twitter to know friends it leo laporte
◼
►
look at all that he yeah that was
◼
►
another consideration right it's like
◼
►
you know Kaylee was already using
◼
►
Twitter right I don't want to go there
◼
►
arm so back to the symbiotic
◼
►
relationship with twitter they were
◼
►
using this beta version of twitter if
◼
►
they loved it as much as we did you know
◼
►
it was pretty obvious having this thing
◼
►
on your desktop was a good thing and
◼
►
they didn't like to it either and they
◼
►
realize that the that there was a
◼
►
problem there and one of their api
◼
►
engineer of getting blamed cook said you
◼
►
know it David land on the bird icon
◼
►
right so we have the the bird everybody
◼
►
loved the bird at all that was was great
◼
►
he says you know you got the bird want
◼
►
I was like haha you know Oh problem
◼
►
and in fact the the first verse you know
◼
►
I had to go through all the UI and and
◼
►
change everything and and now basically
◼
►
to a search and replace for twit to
◼
►
tweet and you know we release it and
◼
►
it's like okay there it to it they're
◼
►
gonna be called tweets from now on the
◼
►
fact that the version 101 there was some
◼
►
tool tips that I had missed that
◼
►
affected the release notes it says you
◼
►
know remove the remaining twits and
◼
►
again that it's that was just it's the
◼
►
perfect example of how a third party and
◼
►
Twitter can work together to make
◼
►
it's funny that the bird came first and
◼
►
yeah we tweet didn't jump out at you
◼
►
yeah it in retrospect it's like you know
◼
►
what we think I think it's because you
◼
►
were too close to it I think that once
◼
►
your guys get too close to something
◼
►
like that and the bird you're already
◼
►
comfortable with the bird you don't even
◼
►
see it it and we met anyone and we've
◼
►
been so we'd seen twit before we had the
◼
►
bird right the twit preceded the bird so
◼
►
it was like we kind of locked in with
◼
►
twitter and it was it again somebody
◼
►
with a little bit of distance from the
◼
►
project can make a better decision about
◼
►
a lot of times than the people that are
◼
►
just right in there and that's all they
◼
►
see so and so what do you think you
◼
►
think your thing in near-term we don't
◼
►
need to worry that it's not yeah the NL
◼
►
the end is not not the bad guy and might
◼
►
be on tap pots the blog post title was
◼
►
as perfect right don't panic right
◼
►
there's no reason to panic but yea
◼
►
long-term that don't expect there to be
◼
►
Twitter clients and around and if you've
◼
►
got one right if you if you got a user
◼
►
token for twitterrific or four Tweetbot
◼
►
you're fine right don't go and delete it
◼
►
right don't go into your app settings on
◼
►
the Twitter homepage and and delete that
◼
►
because you're losing your place in line
◼
►
you know as long as you've got the
◼
►
authentication token you can use that
◼
►
product as long as it exists and it is a
◼
►
different story for apps like
◼
►
twitterrific and Tweetbot that are
◼
►
already successful and presumably over
◼
►
the hundred thousand that limit
◼
►
we're gonna get you get double what
◼
►
you've already got ahead of you before
◼
►
you run into the got to come talk to us
◼
►
you know close yeah let's suppose the
◼
►
door come on in and close the door back
◼
►
to back to the fence about the fences a
◼
►
long ways away which is a big fat wads
◼
►
and whoever else with the echo phone
◼
►
number which is a big big difference
◼
►
from the poor guys out there who just
◼
►
have this idea that it's like sketched
◼
►
out on paper that they haven't that they
◼
►
know is an awesome idea but they haven't
◼
►
started yet and now they're looking at
◼
►
that hardcore hard-coded permanent limit
◼
►
of a hundred thousand yeah with the
◼
►
hearing that hearing that that they were
◼
►
shutting art that they were just going
◼
►
to take the don't build that fence can
◼
►
hear my dog barking your hot that's yes
◼
►
okay um we love to beat we were you know
◼
►
the city's first post kind of put the
◼
►
fear in our hearts that they were going
◼
►
to shut down the API right right i think
◼
►
on the table it was like yeah this year
◼
►
I'm Peter let's do and that's what
◼
►
that's where should I mean we would work
◼
►
on this new version twitterrific for the
◼
►
last six months right i mean where we
◼
►
were seriously thinking okay what are we
◼
►
going to do if they if they totally shut
◼
►
you know what's with our exit plan here
◼
►
so hearing that they're lettin that the
◼
►
established players stay around it
◼
►
that's that's great news for us and I'm
◼
►
sure of the guys at a pox or thinking
◼
►
the same thing right minded they got up
◼
►
i think they're good they're gonna have
◼
►
a problem with the the mac client right
◼
►
is it it there aren't a lot of user
◼
►
tokens that they've accumulated from the
◼
►
beta that and have and how I get more
◼
►
have they said when then add applies it
◼
►
applies when they do the switch over to
◼
►
point one of the eight that's the date
◼
►
when when the count starts I don't think
◼
►
that's one of the big point don't I
◼
►
presume is when I think it's I think
◼
►
it's as of the announcement
◼
►
Oh mmm yeah I thought maybe it was as of
◼
►
the standpoint switch over to the 1.1 a
◼
►
API and I don't know that I wasn't clear
◼
►
yet another it wasn't clear in that
◼
►
message that the sweet spot for the mac
◼
►
maybe the first client to rid of it to
◼
►
run into this problem in fact I suspect
◼
►
it's a and again that's just that shows
◼
►
it's a great piece of software that
◼
►
they're not gonna be able to sell one of
◼
►
the ways I feel like Twitter could tweak
◼
►
this and in a very apple-like wait in a
◼
►
way that Apple has has not really made
◼
►
any major changes to the appstore
◼
►
fundamentally it's that is exactly what
◼
►
they announced it as but they've made a
◼
►
slew of minor course adjustments here
◼
►
and there you know with the show so for
◼
►
example I've one perfect example that
◼
►
was real frustrating early on in the app
◼
►
store was that whole rule against
◼
►
duplicating built-in behavior and so
◼
►
they were saying what no Calendar apps
◼
►
because the phone has a built-in
◼
►
calendar app even though all of these
◼
►
guys have ideas for calendar you is that
◼
►
are nothing like the apple one and the
◼
►
whole reason we're going to do it is the
◼
►
frustrated and then Apple backed away
◼
►
from there and they were little that's
◼
►
like all right that never happened you
◼
►
can put calendar absent now they may not
◼
►
let you they still don't let you switch
◼
►
the default calendar system-wide you
◼
►
know and they can't do famous right with
◼
►
Sparrow you can't set a default email
◼
►
client you can't set chrome as your
◼
►
default browser but at least you're
◼
►
allowed to put it in whereas a course
◼
►
correction so one way that I feel like
◼
►
Twitter could course correct on this
◼
►
would be to raise that limit a little
◼
►
bit ly listen Luke yeah loosen the reins
◼
►
500,000 is really low and i know that
◼
►
for some people out there it's like man
◼
►
a hundred thousand users in my app would
◼
►
be fantastic but in the grand scheme of
◼
►
things it is you're selling two-dollar
◼
►
apps or something like that it is not
◼
►
that much and and conversely a hundred
◼
►
thousand users to twitter is nothing
◼
►
exactly what I could the the number of
◼
►
signups on a day right so I and so
◼
►
that's what i think is that trying to
◼
►
think this through logically and just in
◼
►
the benefits of everybody i do
◼
►
understand that Twitter doesn't want to
◼
►
let any individual client grow so large
◼
►
that it could threaten you know like
◼
►
there was that thing last year where
◼
►
that one company bought a bunch of
◼
►
Twitter clients that accounted for like
◼
►
forty percent twitter client usage and
◼
►
then they started talking about
◼
►
hey we're going to build our own Twitter
◼
►
like service and let all the users of
◼
►
our apps sign up for that too i think i
◼
►
think that had a lot to do with the
◼
►
current policies yes I really death you
◼
►
know I talked earlier about fear and
◼
►
that's when the fear began it's like oh
◼
►
crap ok somebody to come out come along
◼
►
and broadside us and after exposure set
◼
►
set that number at a number that that
◼
►
was is a feasible competitive threat to
◼
►
twitter which is a lot higher than a
◼
►
hundred thousand and you can even codify
◼
►
it in the guidelines that it that the
◼
►
number is is all user tokens that are
◼
►
owned by the same instant company so
◼
►
that if one company went out and bought
◼
►
10 clients that each had 200,000 users
◼
►
that the company's count would be a
◼
►
million and then you've got to come talk
◼
►
to twitter or something like that but
◼
►
anyway I feel like that's one thing that
◼
►
they could do that could really keep the
◼
►
invoice keep the innovation flowing
◼
►
without threatening Twitter itself
◼
►
I I think there are a lot of things that
◼
►
they could do right but they've chosen
◼
►
this path it and you know it it's their
◼
►
network they built it
◼
►
it's their products their company you
◼
►
know they can do whatever the hell they
◼
►
I mean with its it you know I
◼
►
I don't necessarily think what they're
◼
►
now is is in my best interest or in your
◼
►
best interest but it may be in their
◼
►
best interest right and it's their
◼
►
prerogative to do that arm
◼
►
I you know it we've always we've always
◼
►
played the game by their rules you know
◼
►
that they specify the API they specify
◼
►
you know who gets access they specify
◼
►
how you're going to display stuff you
◼
►
know it's it's it's it's in that case
◼
►
and that's in that so that's it that's
◼
►
the same way that that is the app on the
◼
►
App Store yeah right and and that's
◼
►
where that the parallel it rings true
◼
►
yeah there are a lot of other things
◼
►
that were those two don't aren't the
◼
►
same but I don't bottom line is going to
◼
►
be interesting to watch a play out yeah
◼
►
it's gonna be interesting to watch it
◼
►
play out and I the the for me the known
◼
►
into these right now are the Twitter
◼
►
clients are you know by third-party you
◼
►
know that the things that show the
◼
►
timeline on your mobile your laptop
◼
►
wherever eventually going to die out on
◼
►
that happy note let's yeah I think about
◼
►
this take a break for our first sponsor
◼
►
i want to tell you about will take about
◼
►
a great app app / service really called
◼
►
they've sponsored the talkshow long
◼
►
before you're not too long before
◼
►
earlier in the year but they're back
◼
►
here's the bottom line the problem we're
◼
►
trying to solve is that in apple's app
◼
►
store it's really really difficult to
◼
►
find the best apps and everybody who
◼
►
does this if you look at the topless you
◼
►
know that the top list do not correspond
◼
►
to the best apps right I I mean
◼
►
everybody knows this right so yeah in
◼
►
there nobody does not equal quality
◼
►
ah i think in their list right now
◼
►
they're saying of of apps that don't
◼
►
show up in the top rankings include the
◼
►
mule radio app instapaper encoding now
◼
►
what in what world should those apps not
◼
►
being at the top that
◼
►
rally so that's what apps fire does is
◼
►
they've built a great user experience to
◼
►
help users find apps not just abs in
◼
►
general but the best apps and what
◼
►
they've done is they build a thing that
◼
►
everything that they call the app score
◼
►
and it's the their equivalent in-app
◼
►
terminology to what rotten tomatoes does
◼
►
from movies and it's a it's a daily rank
◼
►
of tens of dozens I guess of quality
◼
►
ah on apps all over the app store and
◼
►
from various review sites outside the
◼
►
app store that give rankings and they
◼
►
filter the stuffs to get the low quality
◼
►
junk out there so even if something is
◼
►
popular but if it's getting poorly
◼
►
reviewed outside the app store that's
◼
►
what the apps court can identify so
◼
►
you're not just you know the way that
◼
►
the appstore works is like if you just
◼
►
pick your movies based on box scores
◼
►
well everybody went to see this movie so
◼
►
that's what I'll go see as opposed to
◼
►
rotten tomatoes which says look Robert
◼
►
ebert said this thing stunk
◼
►
Peter Travers of Rolling Stone said they
◼
►
fell asleep during the movie you want to
◼
►
say yeah that's that's but that's why
◼
►
convention all along with that we need
◼
►
to know apps 30-day there needs to be
◼
►
something about that were trusted
◼
►
sources say this is a good app not you
◼
►
know Johnny 6969 you know on his own
◼
►
yeah i'm half store say how do how do we
◼
►
how did you know my apple at the fish
◼
►
it's out that it needed to have fire the
◼
►
surface you can you continue that it can
◼
►
get it that out i will take that out
◼
►
okay they're out of there and they add
◼
►
in rich data they add in this stuff like
◼
►
YouTube videos or Vimeo videos
◼
►
screenshots and stuff like that so you
◼
►
can check out the app you can see it for
◼
►
yourself you can personalize the apt to
◼
►
see just the type of apps that you
◼
►
prefer of all you want to see our games
◼
►
you can just set it up so that all your
◼
►
wants is always going to show you the
◼
►
best game and it's a free app and it's
◼
►
Universal you get for the ipad you get
◼
►
for the iphone it is retina ready on Bo
◼
►
I can't say enough good things about
◼
►
so here's what you do you can go to you
◼
►
got two options here you can go to apps
◼
►
fire dot-com a PPS fired com or just go
◼
►
to the app store and search for apps
◼
►
fire and it'll be the first hit you get
◼
►
right up there i just wrote that down
◼
►
that sounds like a good think it's
◼
►
here's another situation with the
◼
►
twitter client the twin now this is a
◼
►
little bit outside your wheelhouse is
◼
►
the way and it does seem like where the
◼
►
rubber is first hitting the road on
◼
►
these changes is with Twitter's
◼
►
interaction with other networks right so
◼
►
the first they yanked Instagram out and
◼
►
everybody's sort of raised an eyebrow
◼
►
and in other words what you can do with
◼
►
instagram as you could say hey plug in
◼
►
your twitter credentials and it will go
◼
►
through and say look here's all of your
◼
►
people you know your friends on Twitter
◼
►
who are also on instagram do you want to
◼
►
follow them and i have to say and I use
◼
►
that because i don't use facebook so i
◼
►
couldn't use facebook for that I did
◼
►
that when I it made Instagram it may be
◼
►
made the difference to me from at the
◼
►
beginning of whether Instagram was
◼
►
something that stuck with me or not
◼
►
because I found you know I don't know
◼
►
dozen two dozen friend put it bootstraps
◼
►
yeah it's and all of a sudden I'm seeing
◼
►
pictures from people who on personal
◼
►
friends with an Instagram and I don't
◼
►
have to hunt through and and take a
◼
►
guess what their names are and stuff
◼
►
like that and the truth is ID just don't
◼
►
think de you know like you just start
◼
►
trying to do it from memory you just
◼
►
forget i mean i forgot
◼
►
good work with and we can get to this
◼
►
later with the show and talk about
◼
►
app.net a little bit but like with
◼
►
trying to get started on app.net it's
◼
►
like I mean some of my very best friends
◼
►
I just forgot to look for them like Paul
◼
►
Costas was like hey dude when you follow
◼
►
me there and it's like he's one of my
◼
►
best friends and I I was like I thought
◼
►
it was and I looked a lot like oh I mean
◼
►
because I just didn't know where as if i
◼
►
had like a thing that just said hey
◼
►
here's all of your friends from twitter
◼
►
who are on this service you want to
◼
►
follow them here too and
◼
►
and follow follow follow follow follow
◼
►
follow and dinner all right well so they
◼
►
yanked it from Instagram and everybody
◼
►
thought well we know that they hate
◼
►
their facebook at each other and
◼
►
arrivals and there's some bad blood
◼
►
because facebook kinda crapped all over
◼
►
Twitter a while ago with another similar
◼
►
type feature so it's just chalk this up
◼
►
let's be optimistic and and chalk it up
◼
►
to a facebook twitter type thing but now
◼
►
yesterday when they did it
◼
►
tumblr i mean that's just like to me
◼
►
it's like beyond the pale because i
◼
►
don't understand it at all right just
◼
►
it's just it's like I how is knowing who
◼
►
I follow the competitive advantage
◼
►
well any other interesting it and
◼
►
tumblers response and I give them credit
◼
►
for it because I think that they're
◼
►
Republic response to this was in very
◼
►
plain language and in that I i should
◼
►
actually quoted because it was so well
◼
►
said I thought that it wasn't
◼
►
mealy-mouthed it wasn't whiny but it was
◼
►
I mean we're disappointed because we're
◼
►
contributing to Twitter we've made it
◼
►
easy for people who as they tumble to
◼
►
auto tweet their tumblr you know that
◼
►
hey I've got a new thing here they're
◼
►
they're adding content to Twitter
◼
►
they're not just pulling information in
◼
►
one direction from the Twitter
◼
►
quote-unquote hate the term social graph
◼
►
I do hate to use it but I think in this
◼
►
sense it really there's that it really
◼
►
is what what people are talking about
◼
►
this connection of who you know but they
◼
►
were contributing like tweets tweet
◼
►
content is constantly streaming into
◼
►
twitter from people using tumblr it is
◼
►
absolutely like you use the word before
◼
►
and I don't hesitate to use it at all
◼
►
I thought it was a very healthy
◼
►
symbiotic relationship
◼
►
alright we're Twitter or tumblr is not a
◼
►
Twitter competitor at all right it's to
◼
►
me it's almost a picture a picture
◼
►
dictionary example of what a symbiotic
◼
►
relationship was where tumblr users are
◼
►
writing content that gets tweeted when
◼
►
completed and then people see it on
◼
►
twitter and click the URL and go to
◼
►
tumblr i can only man I know what my
◼
►
refers look like and I know that I've
◼
►
said this before my referral listings
◼
►
are turning into more and more more more
◼
►
useless because it's just there's all
◼
►
just they're all Tico leaks
◼
►
it's a health that speaking of alternate
◼
►
monetization schemes would you pay to
◼
►
know where those TCO links came from how
◼
►
tall I would pay i would invite here
◼
►
here's a check for a thousand dollars in
◼
►
a lab solutely oh yeah I it would be
◼
►
better than google analytics to me
◼
►
because they could do it in real time it
◼
►
would absolutely be interesting and if
◼
►
they could correlate that with the oh
◼
►
yeah absolutely yeah there's a gold mine
◼
►
of information there it's actually like
◼
►
i said because i use why you Sean in
◼
►
management and it's still great for
◼
►
tracking you know just you know other
◼
►
I as a daily thing i have google google
◼
►
analytics hooked up which is interesting
◼
►
for other stuff like I had a potential
◼
►
sponsor the day you just wanted to know
◼
►
you had an app that is relate it's just
◼
►
for people who live in chicago and he
◼
►
wanted to know you know I don't think
◼
►
it's a great idea but just wondering how
◼
►
many readers you have in chicago and I
◼
►
thought I don't know idea ends up
◼
►
one-point-eight percent of daring
◼
►
fireball readers live in greater chicago
◼
►
area i had no idea google analytics gave
◼
►
me that and that's that's just really
◼
►
really useful I think the information
◼
►
that Twitter could give me from the
◼
►
tikka links would be I would be right I
◼
►
would probably become my go-to source
◼
►
for checking on how the site's doing on
◼
►
a daily basis do you think advertisers
◼
►
are getting that information
◼
►
okay i don't know i'm sorry i think that
◼
►
i think that's part of it that's gonna
◼
►
be a part of the deal
◼
►
I don't know if they are yet but that
◼
►
has to be has to be a part of the video
◼
►
there's no other reason why they even
◼
►
went to the t-con group right created
◼
►
that it was I mean that there is a
◼
►
safety issue they're right they can shut
◼
►
down a malicious link but right how many
◼
►
malicious links are there really you
◼
►
know I are you I know you're not going
◼
►
to post a malicious link right people
◼
►
know i'm not going to post a little it's
◼
►
just link other than maybe a rickroll
◼
►
it really is about the analytics angle
◼
►
absolutely and the analytics I it should
◼
►
be if they play their cards right i mean
◼
►
they've got the winning hand if they
◼
►
don't monetize the analytics from Tico
◼
►
right then it they then it'll be like a
◼
►
case study in the future for how to
◼
►
watch an opportunity right really well
◼
►
it's like new coke right you're sitting
◼
►
there with with four aces in your hand
◼
►
you know and it's you know everybody is
◼
►
starting the bat I mean you can't you
◼
►
can't lose unless you you know you're an
◼
►
yeah so I I'd agree with that there's
◼
►
with that here's the the comment from
◼
►
tumblr to our dismay twitter has
◼
►
restricted our users ability to find
◼
►
twitter friends on tumblr given our
◼
►
history of embracing their platform
◼
►
this is especially upsetting our
◼
►
syndication feature is responsible for
◼
►
hundreds of millions of tweets and we
◼
►
eagerly enabled Twitter cards across 70
◼
►
million blogs and 30 billion posts as
◼
►
one of Twitter's first partners while
◼
►
we're delighted by the response to our
◼
►
integrations with facebook and gmail we
◼
►
are truly disappointed by Twitter's
◼
►
decision that's a great statement i have
◼
►
two hats off to tell me out for just
◼
►
calling it as they see it clearer on
◼
►
angry eyes too yeah right and concise
◼
►
yeah clear concise and honest and you
◼
►
know in and just say you know and no and
◼
►
admitting that this is their call we're
◼
►
not going to pretend like this is some
◼
►
kind of mutual agreement and I don't
◼
►
yeah you up to the like you know it's
◼
►
it's it's not knowing what Twitter's
◼
►
thinking right it you know you mentioned
◼
►
Apple you don't have the Apple has
◼
►
restrictions but you can understand why
◼
►
those restrictions exist right there
◼
►
protecting Apple's own interests and
◼
►
they're predicting apples customers
◼
►
interests right that's the bottom line
◼
►
for ninety-nine percent of what Apple
◼
►
twitter I'm not yeah okay other than the
◼
►
you know advertisers are more important
◼
►
to us than the only the users of our of
◼
►
our network other than that I just don't
◼
►
yeah really just I starting we got appt
◼
►
dotnet yeah but you've had some smart
◼
►
stuff there i don't know we always been
◼
►
too long don't and I don't want to I
◼
►
don't want to create the impression that
◼
►
by me having linked to it and help them
◼
►
meet their fundraising goal and that
◼
►
talking about it that I that I'm banking
◼
►
on app.net or I'm switching to ab dot
◼
►
net or that I think that even if
◼
►
somebody is going to come up with a
◼
►
rival to platform that it is apt on that
◼
►
but I do think that they picked the
◼
►
right time to try something like this
◼
►
and the right approach writing the right
◼
►
approach but you've been talking on on
◼
►
app.net about some of the naming
◼
►
problems they have just obvious things
◼
►
like the fact that they don't have a a
◼
►
word like tweet which is both a noun and
◼
►
yeah right with so you know there's no
◼
►
personality there's no personality it's
◼
►
like it sounds like a Microsoft product
◼
►
right you post turkey right yeah they
◼
►
submit you know it's just it's just
◼
►
there's no it's not a bad word but it's
◼
►
got like you said no personality
◼
►
it is it's yeah it it if you know if
◼
►
they expect to see white up adoption for
◼
►
this thing it's gotta have some
◼
►
personalities gotta be non-threatening
◼
►
it's gotta be something that the average
◼
►
person can look at and understand where
◼
►
the value is right right the i think
◼
►
part of the problem right now is isn't
◼
►
is they're confusing infrastructure
◼
►
which is apt net with what people are
◼
►
going to be using which is the alpha the
◼
►
clients that there is the just
◼
►
and the I can't can't get too upset
◼
►
about this i mean how long is this thing
◼
►
existed right a month and a half early
◼
►
day it's it's it's like you know it's
◼
►
like when Twitter was twttr yeah alright
◼
►
it's it's that is it the baby right I'm
◼
►
not going to be you know writing too
◼
►
much on a baby but if you give a baby a
◼
►
name that name sticks with them for the
◼
►
alright it's important to come up with a
◼
►
good name a name you're happy with you
◼
►
know you're not going to make the fuzz
◼
►
butt or something like that and then you
◼
►
know shitty 16 and we're still calling +
◼
►
but Jonas when Jonas was was born Amy's
◼
►
legal name was still shudder starter
◼
►
maiden name is her legal name
◼
►
uh-huh and so he's was born and it's his
◼
►
name on the sign in the booth it in the
◼
►
boxer but they put it is put babies in a
◼
►
box really and just said baby boy baby
◼
►
boy the gal haha and my dad like I'm a
◼
►
good name right there kind of had a good
◼
►
ring to it almost stuck
◼
►
that's the thing that almost I said
◼
►
that's why I bring this up is that if we
◼
►
had gone another day or two it might
◼
►
yeah baby boy the gap and that's that's
◼
►
really my point of the you know of Alton
◼
►
Caldwell on the other guys there that
◼
►
you know I think it's been a little bit
◼
►
of time thinking about it now because if
◼
►
you don't you're gonna regret it in the
◼
►
I'm I guess another way to look at it in
◼
►
the big picture is it you've got to
◼
►
start thinking product
◼
►
yeah it just think infrastructure and
◼
►
technology right and it's just getting
◼
►
down into Steve Jobs territory where the
◼
►
the product has to drive the technology
◼
►
not the other way around
◼
►
no this is that this is right out of
◼
►
like the 1997 jobs is the interim CEO
◼
►
how what are we going to do any I don't
◼
►
even at that point he hadn't even done
◼
►
the radical look we're going to get rid
◼
►
of 37 of these products and we're going
◼
►
to have for consumer laptop a consumer
◼
►
desk topic pro laptop and a pro desktop
◼
►
and that's it and that's how we're going
◼
►
to get back into focus
◼
►
it was before they even pick those
◼
►
things but he just said i think it was
◼
►
in response i forget it
◼
►
was at WWDC i was at WWDC when he took
◼
►
the questions and answers and somebody
◼
►
had asked about open docx which they
◼
►
were said they were gonna kill and that
◼
►
he said it doesn't it's you know it does
◼
►
all sorts of clever stuff and it's great
◼
►
technology but it doesn't fit it doesn't
◼
►
matter if it's great technology
◼
►
sometimes the vision has to drive the
◼
►
technology not the other way around you
◼
►
can't say well we've got this good
◼
►
technology so we have to figure out a
◼
►
way to use it right and it's like that's
◼
►
what app.net has to do is it's not
◼
►
enough to just have the infrastructure
◼
►
and that alone is hard i mean everybody
◼
►
who watched Twitter grow from small to
◼
►
big and you know who still remembers the
◼
►
days of the fail whale knows that that's
◼
►
hard and who even knows if app.net
◼
►
technology back-end is actually would
◼
►
survive that time of growth but let's
◼
►
just assume that it is that alone is not
◼
►
that's not enough it's got to be a
◼
►
product that makes sense as a cohesive
◼
►
whole from the outside not the inside
◼
►
well no it's it it's interesting we were
◼
►
one of the first people on Twitter to
◼
►
actually think about product right
◼
►
because we were given release this thing
◼
►
and it was originally if free app and
◼
►
but you know we're not going to release
◼
►
something that's not thought out right
◼
►
and you know we had to go through that
◼
►
thought process okay coming up with what
◼
►
this thing is going to be armed and
◼
►
that's hard i mean it people i think a
◼
►
lot of people take that for granted you
◼
►
yeah it's like that you know this whole
◼
►
Apple Samsung case right now it's like
◼
►
the thing that's been most eye-opening
◼
►
for me is how many freaking prototype
◼
►
say to the iphone mm and how varied they
◼
►
were well and then enter the idea that
◼
►
more obvious it seems after exactly
◼
►
and you know the more the more you think
◼
►
it through the more you clarify it the
◼
►
more it becomes simple the more obvious
◼
►
it is it's really a weird thing it's
◼
►
like it's like you're coming you know
◼
►
and and there's that moment like when
◼
►
somebody says why don't you name tweet
◼
►
where it's just like oh right that's
◼
►
like the skies open and and you know
◼
►
that clarity is achieved and you can't
◼
►
yeah right now get once you heard that
◼
►
you couldn't think of it you couldn't
◼
►
not call them tweets right right and
◼
►
what you know and what you saw the
◼
►
iphone eat it originally was going to
◼
►
get an iphone you know i watch the
◼
►
announcement anything I don't really
◼
►
want I don't want to carry email or out
◼
►
of my pocket you know that I get enough
◼
►
i don't have enough electronic
◼
►
interruptions in my day anyway I don't
◼
►
kind of want that with me all the time
◼
►
and then you know five minutes and the
◼
►
apple store playing with that first
◼
►
iphone it's like oh she's this is the
◼
►
future right i remember that it is that
◼
►
this is another that this is the next 30
◼
►
years of computing I remember more that
◼
►
there's the glass cylinder that they
◼
►
were behind on the macworld yeah so
◼
►
flare i love that picture that Duncan
◼
►
thought that way that's really you know
◼
►
that's one of the I think it's honestly
◼
►
I think not just for the tech nerd world
◼
►
I think it's one of the best photos that
◼
►
I've seen in the last decade right i
◼
►
think and i think that we it it'll it
◼
►
should rightfully go down as like the
◼
►
iconic picture of the decade that decade
◼
►
in technology honestly now the great for
◼
►
kids that get that moment of clarity
◼
►
right are you looking at that and just
◼
►
go on that this is that they got
◼
►
absolutely absolutely everything right
◼
►
right yeah after using it for a month my
◼
►
either little niggles here and there but
◼
►
99.9 percent of that original iphone was
◼
►
yeah really was just have one right here
◼
►
in my hand I my desk batteries on I've
◼
►
got original mac up and in the Attic
◼
►
I've got my i will never sell that I've
◼
►
got that will never sell fun right yeah
◼
►
that's I still I still turn it over in
◼
►
my hands on I still do i love metal back
◼
►
middle back it still hasn't stopped
◼
►
yeah I'm hold it right now it's like
◼
►
yeah like the front face is not as good
◼
►
the front face is absolutely sort of a
◼
►
hack with the silver the chrome around
◼
►
then the bezel but that from the back
◼
►
man that thing is perfect you can see
◼
►
why they did that that chrome bezel
◼
►
right they need they didn't have the
◼
►
technology to yep to meet those to the
◼
►
acid for materials right they need some
◼
►
of the time together right right again
◼
►
again and hien in hindsight in hindsight
◼
►
it's really easy to look at back oh yeah
◼
►
of course that's a and that you know how
◼
►
many iterations to take them to to come
◼
►
to that conclusion can only imagine I
◼
►
mean we're going to start wrapping
◼
►
things up when I still I do want to talk
◼
►
about retro stuff but before we do while
◼
►
we're still on twitter i would like to
◼
►
talk about our second sponsor and fits
◼
►
right in it is a brand new app called
◼
►
tweet keeper i just installed it it does
◼
►
exactly what it says and I'm going to
◼
►
tell you and I don't run because i'm
◼
►
going to tell you what the NIU 16 you
◼
►
can predict who i've loaded up in here
◼
►
Craig but we keep our dust it's an
◼
►
iphone app that lets you easily save
◼
►
search and export tweets and it's not
◼
►
just for yours you can just put in a
◼
►
username any user name and it'll slurp
◼
►
down all the available tweets for that
◼
►
user know why would you want to do
◼
►
that's because the twitter api only let
◼
►
you get 3200 tweet so if I said
◼
►
chocoberry it'll give me the Craig
◼
►
huckleberries last 3200 tweet now here's
◼
►
when Craig has posted a few hundred more
◼
►
and i'm using tweet keeper keeper I just
◼
►
launched it every couple days and it'll
◼
►
keep launching them and so a year from
◼
►
now i'll have more than 3,200 of your
◼
►
tweets so it's still can't go back
◼
►
beyond that today's 3200 tweet horizon
◼
►
but starting now you can start saving
◼
►
tweets from the users you want these
◼
►
tweets you want to archive and it'll
◼
►
just get them all starting from now go
◼
►
back 3200 and then going forward will
◼
►
lets you search them of course and
◼
►
searches real fast I've already loaded
◼
►
up a couple of accounts with all 3200
◼
►
tweets searched for peanut found them as
◼
►
a hint as to who i'm using it for I and
◼
►
you can export them you can export them
◼
►
to json the raw JSON format it exports
◼
►
is exactly in the same format that
◼
►
Twitter gives you over the API you can
◼
►
export them in plain text you can export
◼
►
them to a spreadsheet and then you can
◼
►
just email or open the tweets and
◼
►
another app it works exactly as it says
◼
►
it is very very fast and even works with
◼
►
private accounts which I i haven't tried
◼
►
that I have a private cop presume you'd
◼
►
need a password for that it's super
◼
►
simple so you want to save tweets your
◼
►
the sooner you start using it the
◼
►
quicker you're going to have a more
◼
►
complete archive of of a user who do you
◼
►
think who do you think I'm saving in
◼
►
well I haven't got the peanut portion of
◼
►
a of dad boner yet but if if I'm
◼
►
guessing it's dad boner right car my
◼
►
friend Carl wells on out and Detroit who
◼
►
is the greatest in my opinion brand
◼
►
block well near Detroit yeah Eric eighth
◼
►
to detroit area a literary character
◼
►
Sudan a anonymously written fictional
◼
►
character on Twitter who I believed to
◼
►
be one of the great literary characters
◼
►
of the last 10 years hilarious and
◼
►
medium you fall in love with him but
◼
►
then you want to go back and read his
◼
►
old ones or a month from now when he
◼
►
starts referencing something that
◼
►
happened a couple months ago you want to
◼
►
go back well guess what your stock in
◼
►
regular twitter apps because you only
◼
►
recent ones you use something like 20
◼
►
keeper you've got them all
◼
►
you can go back you can search you can
◼
►
see the old stories and it's a great way
◼
►
to backup your own Twitter account past
◼
►
what Twitter would let you do so you
◼
►
soon as you put your own username in
◼
►
the longer you're going to have an
◼
►
archive of your own tweets tweet keeper
◼
►
is available in the app store for an
◼
►
introductory price of just a buck 99 199
◼
►
get this great app it works got a nice
◼
►
interface super fast you can find out
◼
►
more at tweet keeper app.com or just
◼
►
search for tweet keeper in the app store
◼
►
that's what I did first thing that came
◼
►
tweet keeper it's a great app let's talk
◼
►
about reading stuff let's go through
◼
►
yeah you and I started talking about it
◼
►
ah and this is really really fast i mean
◼
►
you and and developing xscope puts you
◼
►
right i mean like you could not be more
◼
►
i've looked at every single freaking
◼
►
pixel your display your neck deep in
◼
►
this stuff and your six-foot-eight yeah
◼
►
that's a lot of pixels well and the most
◼
►
interesting thing about it is that prior
◼
►
to the retina Mac ex-cops job was
◼
►
showing helping you show pixels on
◼
►
screen whether it was aligning them or
◼
►
constraining them or magnifying them but
◼
►
it's here's the pixels on the screen
◼
►
we're going to show you them bigger the
◼
►
big change with retina is not like iOS
◼
►
where it's just four times more pixels
◼
►
it is variant right that's the thing
◼
►
that blows my mind and really gives me
◼
►
headaches just thinking about the math
◼
►
that's important in xcode like and
◼
►
slowly siracusa has covered this stuff
◼
►
extensively and it's still mind-blowing
◼
►
is that everybody knows you get the
◼
►
macbook retina you you you have five
◼
►
choices for resolution and the middle
◼
►
one is the default which is best for
◼
►
retina which is the only one where
◼
►
yes it was yeah it's the one where
◼
►
you see two pixels for everyone window
◼
►
point right a window point is the only
◼
►
pixel in in pre retina a window point is
◼
►
a pixel and in the New World window
◼
►
point in best for retina is for but
◼
►
there's two to other dimensions in each
◼
►
way where where are you
◼
►
so when it simulates like the 1900 x
◼
►
1200 something display it is drawing
◼
►
off-screen to a pixel doubled version of
◼
►
that / and then scaling it down to the
◼
►
actual 28 by what ad so you're actually
◼
►
one dat by 14 for right it's actually on
◼
►
right so it's actually only showing you
◼
►
two thirds of the pixels but it was okay
◼
►
because the pixels are so small it
◼
►
actually looks good can't tell ya you
◼
►
can't tell when you're when you're on
◼
►
that more space setting
◼
►
that more space setting
◼
►
the retina image is being created by Mac
◼
►
os10 is twice of that that size that you
◼
►
selected and then get scaled down
◼
►
sixty-six percent to fit on the display
◼
►
and i like that that's something that's
◼
►
something you know if you see something
◼
►
that's drawing a 1 pixel line it'll get
◼
►
a little busy right it gets that tiny
◼
►
little bit fuzzy but you you're far
◼
►
enough back that you can't tell and it
◼
►
that's one of the things interesting in
◼
►
in the new version X go for me is that
◼
►
the and the loop right it draws a little
◼
►
grid so you can out you know to
◼
►
delineate each pixel easily and i'm
◼
►
drawing that grid with one pixel and
◼
►
it's just so fine it's like it's there
◼
►
but it's not right I can't you guys yeah
◼
►
I can't tell that it's a pixel it's just
◼
►
like this because in a hairline it's
◼
►
like it's like a pc and sometimes to get
◼
►
a piece of hair on your laptop screen
◼
►
you know it's just that really thin
◼
►
I what it is in in regular UI design
◼
►
like if you and I were just working on a
◼
►
regular mac app in and we're going
◼
►
retina with it that the most the
◼
►
thinnest you typically would get there
◼
►
would be one point right you wouldn't
◼
►
typically draw stuff in the UI at less
◼
►
than one point now is that correct that
◼
►
that you just want to put a line you
◼
►
want to put a one you want to put up a
◼
►
hair line between the source list and
◼
►
the content that's the app we're making
◼
►
you're going to draw that at one point
◼
►
and then write three retina max it'll
◼
►
register will draw is one pixel and on
◼
►
retina max it draws two pixels as two
◼
►
pixels right so what you've done the
◼
►
thing that's interesting is that you can
◼
►
draw a half a point now on a retina
◼
►
display your drawing your drawing half
◼
►
of one of those and that's that's where
◼
►
the math got complicated right because
◼
►
right for example that the windows can
◼
►
only be positioned on full point
◼
►
boundaries right but ex-cop has gotta
◼
►
measure stuff that's on those half-point
◼
►
I'm positioning windows and then having
◼
►
to shift views around in those windows
◼
►
so that they align on that right half
◼
►
point position now one of the night it's
◼
►
it was hard i'm sure it is really it and
◼
►
you're not done yet you do have a beta
◼
►
that is your asking i've got it and it
◼
►
works great and it's just makes me more
◼
►
happy to just stare at the retina
◼
►
macbook pro what if you notice that the
◼
►
one pixel a shadow border on the windows
◼
►
on yours no I haven't but no no I'm
◼
►
talking about just on a standard mac OS
◼
►
yeah yeah there's just that one picks
◼
►
yet but that kind of makes the window
◼
►
pop out a little bit yep that I know
◼
►
that's not there that's not there on the
◼
►
non-retina version and apple hood army
◼
►
it's an amazing piece of engineering
◼
►
right I've been reverse engineering this
◼
►
thing for the last month but they've
◼
►
taken advantage of it in some very
◼
►
subtle ways like that how its yeah it's
◼
►
like it if it again it's that one pixel
◼
►
can do some pretty amazing things to
◼
►
your UI yeah used judiciously right you
◼
►
know you don't want to get carried away
◼
►
with it because then it's like nobody's
◼
►
gonna be able to see what you're doing
◼
►
but well the weirdest did that we're not
◼
►
weirdest but the thing that blows me
◼
►
away and it really is noticeable is that
◼
►
and you know this I mean this is that
◼
►
it's no surprise that that you're the
◼
►
one you know the icon factory is the
◼
►
developer co-developer of excess you
◼
►
guys ex-cop entirely now I know it's not
◼
►
always with it is a joint project still
◼
►
with with we've taken on with ya
◼
►
Wolfgang auntie it exists off on i'm
◼
►
doing the primary development on it now
◼
►
but but it's no surprise that your your
◼
►
guys are doing this because it's sort of
◼
►
one of those were building this for
◼
►
ourselves because of course the name of
◼
►
the company is the icon factor you guys
◼
►
still do tons of you know I icon you
◼
►
guys do artwork you do user interface
◼
►
artwork right and so what you're
◼
►
building is a tool for people who sweat
◼
►
the pixels of beautiful beautiful icons
◼
►
and user interface elements and buttons
◼
►
and anything like that or or developers
◼
►
even white not like it you know somebody
◼
►
gets a photoshop comp and they've gotta
◼
►
you know we gotta measure color they
◼
►
going to measure pixel distance and you
◼
►
know there are a lot of the lot of uses
◼
►
for the app it and that's what the app
◼
►
is for is to be if we're going to
◼
►
insanely insist that every single pixel
◼
►
of this icon is perfect but we need
◼
►
software we you know we need special
◼
►
software to actually magnify it and see
◼
►
it now it's no surprise that you made it
◼
►
I your hairlines for your guides and the
◼
►
new thing it reminds me of I have going
◼
►
back to my review of the macbook retina
◼
►
pro whatever the hell it's called when i
◼
►
got access to a 1200 DPI laser printer
◼
►
and I'm ya work we started anything was
◼
►
just as a test we started making
◼
►
hairlines hours we set them to a quarter
◼
►
of a point tenth of a point and it was
◼
►
like a twentieth of a point and you
◼
►
could see it you could see like a
◼
►
twentieth of a point airline and we're
◼
►
like oh my god that's amazing but then
◼
►
write it was no good for like you eat
◼
►
you couldn't reproduce it like you
◼
►
couldn't put a twentieth of a hairline
◼
►
but you can see it on the output you got
◼
►
out of the printer but then if you try
◼
►
to put in newsprint it was gone
◼
►
I mean it was like you can't yeah yeah
◼
►
it's it's it's that that's what I think
◼
►
the apples done is smart if I is it by
◼
►
default you is on the retina display are
◼
►
using two pixels right which are easier
◼
►
to see now they took a lot of different
◼
►
approaches and i think that the current
◼
►
one that this is a perfect example where
◼
►
they learned a lot from iOS right it's
◼
►
it's you know they originally had a tiff
◼
►
files which had different scale factors
◼
►
and then you know it's like because it
◼
►
they were thinking that ok we can adjust
◼
►
the scaling to any value right if
◼
►
somebody wants to see their screen at
◼
►
one point three times you know we can
◼
►
have a slider and they'll do that but in
◼
►
reality people just they want to see the
◼
►
best they can see right the idea I i
◼
►
think the older idea the original idea
◼
►
for independence was about switching
◼
►
from bitmaps to vector graphics of doing
◼
►
like you know making it like PDF yeah
◼
►
that everything would be like PDF and
◼
►
where when you open up a PDF file in
◼
►
you can get reasonable font rendering at
◼
►
eighty-seven percent a hundred and
◼
►
thirteen percent hundred and fourteen
◼
►
percent you did it doesn't really matter
◼
►
because the fonts are all outline you
◼
►
know they're always they're open type or
◼
►
truetype or postscript or something like
◼
►
that so they're going to scale and you
◼
►
know especially when you blow stuff up
◼
►
big if you really want to zoom in and
◼
►
just say what I want to really look at
◼
►
this capital R and just blow it up real
◼
►
big it's going to look great
◼
►
the problem is it is not gonna look
◼
►
picture-perfect on it's small
◼
►
yeah that and that is the problem with
◼
►
people say oh you know wanted the whole
◼
►
UI you know that the graphics are in a
◼
►
vector format because they're
◼
►
unpredictable right sometimes you need
◼
►
to have that pixel precision in order to
◼
►
you know pull out some element in the
◼
►
icon or to you know make sure something
◼
►
is aligned correctly the it sort of gets
◼
►
like that that that colored status bar
◼
►
right designers like predictability
◼
►
right and control and yeah exactly then
◼
►
you need it and they need that they they
◼
►
create great stuff because they have
◼
►
that control right start taking that
◼
►
control away from and for fonts it's a
◼
►
different thing right that the font
◼
►
designers have always worked with
◼
►
vectors right there it's and you know
◼
►
then take some of that work and you know
◼
►
make pixel-based versions of it in the
◼
►
screen fonts which in fact it's funny
◼
►
screen sponsor have been deprecated
◼
►
right right there they it's pretty clear
◼
►
that that pixel level control over a
◼
►
font it's just something it's going the
◼
►
it doesn't make sense if these
◼
►
resolutions right now now it
◼
►
yeah i just made my only complaint with
◼
►
the the retina displays that the form
◼
►
factor that it sits in i love my macbook
◼
►
yeah maybe we have reduced commiserated
◼
►
we cried ourselves a superposition same
◼
►
yesterday but yeah I wire I desperately
◼
►
want a rate of retina machine but I
◼
►
don't want it in a 15-inch macbook pro
◼
►
but I think that's what I'm gonna have
◼
►
to do because unless a nice Apple
◼
►
surprises us with a maybe like a 13-inch
◼
►
macbook pro by the end of the year i
◼
►
think im just gonna suck it up and by
◼
►
the 15 inch and use it as my only
◼
►
yes it's interesting to me that their
◼
►
first machine that they put the retina
◼
►
display and was 15 right you think that
◼
►
that as far as production yields and you
◼
►
know similarities with with the ipads
◼
►
retina display that they would have gone
◼
►
with a smaller screen right the 11-inch
◼
►
43 inch or well not 11 because the only
◼
►
11 is the air and that's that's got
◼
►
these price points that I don't think
◼
►
they can hit yet and I don't think they
◼
►
were all right yeah I'm not scared
◼
►
you're not gonna have an 11 inch pro I
◼
►
don't write I think they're going to do
◼
►
nah I mallu little disappointed maybe is
◼
►
the more the right word that surprised
◼
►
that they didn't do the 13 and 15 at the
◼
►
same time and like you said if they can
◼
►
do the 15 and get yields of these 15
◼
►
inch screens and certain i should be
◼
►
able to get the 13 is too but I also do
◼
►
think though that it speaks to the
◼
►
15-inch macbook pro as the de facto king
◼
►
of the max like it may not be the
◼
►
fastest it's never going to be faster
◼
►
it's still not faster than that Mac
◼
►
Pro's even the jokey joke you know
◼
►
siracusa hate mac pros
◼
►
at least two WC but of course not i mean
◼
►
a mac pro is the size of my dorm room
◼
►
refrigerator i love my mac program got
◼
►
to 30 inch displays hooked up to it is
◼
►
anyway it's like real estate city i was
◼
►
saying it's the king of that Ben acts in
◼
►
terms of being like the sweet spot
◼
►
between what put normal people by
◼
►
various what pros by it's right there
◼
►
and you know that it kind of makes sense
◼
►
that it would be the first one to get
◼
►
this amazing new technology and yeah
◼
►
read a post like our friend Gus Gus
◼
►
Mueller and he was saying you know he's
◼
►
got the macbook pro with retina display
◼
►
and it's obviously doing acorn
◼
►
development on it and you know he's got
◼
►
his back with forest using his mac pro
◼
►
sitting side-by-side just like me
◼
►
right right the the retina macbook pro
◼
►
is faster than my old Mac Pro yeah it's
◼
►
weird it's just it doesn't have as much
◼
►
screen real estate and then then my
◼
►
macpro doesn't need to be super fast i
◼
►
mean i'm not i'm not building you know
◼
►
the OS right I'm not build times her you
◼
►
yeah but you guys manager skies you use
◼
►
xcode really still are and and I've
◼
►
mentioned is a couple shows you know
◼
►
that it's fewer and fewer for normal
◼
►
people are people who aren't there's
◼
►
fewer and fewer tasks that that that our
◼
►
cpu constrained I'm yes never see ya
◼
►
constrain yeah except when safari really
◼
►
gets bogged down with a ton of tabs you
◼
►
know sometimes safari will chew up over
◼
►
a hundred percent of my cpu because I've
◼
►
got so much going on but you know what
◼
►
you know what I was sorry had a process
◼
►
or tab monitor right so you can see
◼
►
which tabs were using all those seeking
◼
►
I'm or I wish they'd said anything that
◼
►
says don't let tabs in the background
◼
►
have more than us to project exactly
◼
►
exactly wish that I could just like set
◼
►
like a nice setting on anything except
◼
►
the frontmost tab because I don't do
◼
►
anything i don't use web apps that i
◼
►
want doing stuff in the background I I
◼
►
wherever it was like iOS and they just
◼
►
it just shut background tabs off i read
◼
►
care the browser is an OS now right we
◼
►
used to reboot our max now we've reboot
◼
►
our safari so far as the number one
◼
►
my life why I feel like I need a new
◼
►
faster computer but you guys who use
◼
►
xcode you realize there are cpu
◼
►
constrain you guys save time and timers
◼
►
at times yeah you there are times when
◼
►
you are significantly more productive
◼
►
with a faster cpu I mean yes that is
◼
►
correct that's correct and especially
◼
►
but the newer knew that the new version
◼
►
of xcode is it likes to use all those
◼
►
ya know I there are times when out a lot
◼
►
I've been thinking about a lot and and i
◼
►
think you said the same thing where it's
◼
►
like you were backed into this corner
◼
►
number we've seen the 15-inch macbook
◼
►
pro with retina display and because
◼
►
we've seen the retina display we never
◼
►
want to buy another Mac without a retina
◼
►
display again but we don't want the
◼
►
15-inch heavier portable hardware i
◼
►
would rather have like an imac on my
◼
►
desk or a mac pro with a cinema retina
◼
►
display something like that big
◼
►
standalone retina display and I would
◼
►
like a little 11 inch retina air or 30
◼
►
minute there I none of that exists and a
◼
►
way I don't know what's gonna come first
◼
►
and I feel like apples pulled in two
◼
►
we're with the imax it's it's just their
◼
►
screens are too big I mean I think it's
◼
►
too expensive i don't think there's any
◼
►
feasible i think it's that just they're
◼
►
just up against the tech where you can't
◼
►
get 27 inch threaded class I think
◼
►
that's absolutely i mean look at what
◼
►
happened with the iphone right it's like
◼
►
we have a 320 x 480 to 640 x 960 screen
◼
►
and that was feasible right right and
◼
►
then a couple years later okay it's
◼
►
feasible on the the ipad you know much
◼
►
larger screen i think that was again
◼
►
back to the you know it's like why
◼
►
didn't they start with 13 and work their
◼
►
way up well I think you're right and
◼
►
that the 15 was sweet spot price wise
◼
►
machine why is you know a lot of reasons
◼
►
that they went there but i think the
◼
►
probably go down a little bit now a to
◼
►
do some reading 13 but those 27 inch
◼
►
screens and retina it's going to be
◼
►
yeah but that's going to be two maybe
◼
►
three years from now I think so yeah or
◼
►
at least a full year out at least but
◼
►
and then on the other side with the air
◼
►
they obviously could I mean if they can
◼
►
do 15 inch then they can do the smaller
◼
►
one so they could have an 11 inch air
◼
►
retina screen now but i did I think it's
◼
►
about the air brand being tied to these
◼
►
very consumer-friendly pipe price points
◼
►
that the 11 and Jared starts at nine
◼
►
ninety nine which is Magic that's a
◼
►
number that Apple spent like a decade
◼
►
not be really being that near with a
◼
►
laptop and just being able to say you
◼
►
know we've got a 999 laptop that
◼
►
and unlike the the white plastic I think
◼
►
they were still called ibooks always
◼
►
right yeah which hit that the first ones
◼
►
to hit that 999 but they were like
◼
►
decidedly less materials right the
◼
►
materials were right where I don't even
◼
►
11 inch air and it's in some ways more
◼
►
beautiful than the pros because it's so
◼
►
much thinner and lighter and has this
◼
►
cool teardrop thing and it's just like
◼
►
you can really just hold it with a
◼
►
finger and the thumb it actually
◼
►
arguably is a better design than the
◼
►
more expensive pros and I feel like that
◼
►
they're you know that it's just going to
◼
►
it's a matter of just not of technology
◼
►
but of costs that they're not going to
◼
►
recognize the heirs until they can still
◼
►
keep it in these nine ninety nine eleven
◼
►
hundred dollar price points
◼
►
yeah that's not like there goes my what
◼
►
is going to happen first so right now
◼
►
I think you're right in the air I think
◼
►
so too i think though I think they'll be
◼
►
able to hit those price points first and
◼
►
maybe even do it and eat a little bit of
◼
►
the margin for the first year but just
◼
►
get it out there to do it yeah but how
◼
►
many of them know they're going to sell
◼
►
right that thing's gonna sell like
◼
►
right right it's a good i didn't i skip
◼
►
the the upgrade for the Sun when they
◼
►
added the Thunder bold instead of the
◼
►
original you know displayport stuff and
◼
►
then she's fine for what I use it for I
◼
►
don't do my primary development on that
◼
►
machine but man when that thing's got a
◼
►
I'm first in line right it's just a
◼
►
different that's a no-brainer upgrade
◼
►
interesting one of the hard things 4x
◼
►
scope was making sure that the retina
◼
►
display works alongside a normal
◼
►
display right there like that you know
◼
►
your magnifying the screen on the retina
◼
►
display well you can drag that magnifier
◼
►
over onto another window which is not
◼
►
retina that's like you gotta there's a
◼
►
little bit of complication there as far
◼
►
as making sure you know both the retina
◼
►
screen and the non retina screen work
◼
►
together and that that's the way things
◼
►
are going to be for the next couple
◼
►
years because nobody window because i
◼
►
don't use multiple displays anymore but
◼
►
what happens when you don't go into half
◼
►
on the one in half on the other the half
◼
►
that its most on gets the retina tree
◼
►
right so if it's half more than half
◼
►
onto the retina screen it it renders
◼
►
everything retina and then on the normal
◼
►
screen it's doesn't look quite right
◼
►
because it's the retina graphics scaled
◼
►
down to the low half-size basically
◼
►
conscious fifty percent reduction but
◼
►
again with a tool like the loop
◼
►
xscope it's got a seamlessly switch
◼
►
between those two environments
◼
►
yeah the same with like the ruler and
◼
►
all the other stuff that xscope does arm
◼
►
so who says you don't grow up and use
◼
►
yeah that's very true graphic it's funny
◼
►
I got a stack of paper here that's got
◼
►
nothing but rectangles it will you know
◼
►
stamp see errors and rectangles and told
◼
►
me that it's all just wrecked right just
◼
►
simple rectangles mine have square
◼
►
corners though it's all very obvious you
◼
►
guys designed icon factory design the
◼
►
new microsoft logo know now square
◼
►
corners we that the last thing we did
◼
►
for them were the the icons for for
◼
►
vista then they i forgot that you guys
◼
►
did that that was a big deal and that
◼
►
the folder standing on their side that
◼
►
was a long and involved design process
◼
►
the microsoft is is has gotten smart
◼
►
right there doing a lot more their
◼
►
design in house they realize that the
◼
►
design is is a competitive tool you know
◼
►
when i'm down to play from Apple's
◼
►
you know what I I joke and there but i
◼
►
don't mean this i don't know i don't buy
◼
►
into the argument that round wrecks are
◼
►
inherently better than square corners i
◼
►
think you know there's room in design
◼
►
for all sorts of stuff i think that
◼
►
they're owning I think Microsoft is
◼
►
owning square corners
◼
►
yeah and I think that's kind of a cool
◼
►
thing to own that they've they've eked
◼
►
out a very distinctive aesthetic and it
◼
►
worked for since it's consistent it
◼
►
works both as a screen you I and as a
◼
►
branding you I this square corner
◼
►
rectangles and squares thing I i think
◼
►
it's a powerful visual brand I honestly
◼
►
I i think that it's by far and away the
◼
►
best user interface branding ever
◼
►
yeah the only other one that was good
◼
►
was the windows 95 1 which they just
◼
►
yeah the the windows 8 I think it looks
◼
►
great i have to be honest i have not
◼
►
yeah but it's not just a windows
◼
►
8windows AAA III thought your sleeve
◼
►
oh yeah the the bx metro yeah you are i
◼
►
I'm just going to keep calling it metro
◼
►
to hell with them because it's a weird
◼
►
thing at the because you know what I'm
◼
►
so sick of why did they think about her
◼
►
I don't want to sit there and write
◼
►
formerly known as we metro or the
◼
►
windows and I'll you i'm just going to
◼
►
call it metro and that's their problem
◼
►
you know I mean that's right yeah the is
◼
►
great at the yeah it's consistent it's I
◼
►
think the thought the biggest problem
◼
►
we're going to have are the people who
◼
►
have been using windows since windows 95
◼
►
going oh my god this is different
◼
►
yep its way really different
◼
►
it is so much recently here and it's
◼
►
going to make people so much angrier
◼
►
than you know it was only on the windows
◼
►
his tablet devices as apple style the
◼
►
equivalent of the ipad 2 apple a new
◼
►
thing and it's you know it'll
◼
►
interrelated you can sync it you can
◼
►
dock it will talk to exchange and all
◼
►
this stuff but if you just buy a dell
◼
►
shitbox pc and install the windows on it
◼
►
it's going to look like your windows
◼
►
desktop and have a start menu down there
◼
►
I say we wrap it up i think we've been
◼
►
Craig Hockenberry thank you for being