10: The Next Big Thing, with MG Siegler
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it seems nuts though you're saying that
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there's hotels that that have Wi-Fi
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access that you can't do on microphone i
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got an iphone right because the pop-up
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thing because like there's a lot of them
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out there that want you still to watch
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some kind of you know either add or
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click on something that requires a
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pop-up and the iphone doesn't doesn't
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like that too much and then not to
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mention all the ones that are not just
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tailored at all for a mobile experience
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and so you know it's either a
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combination of of quick zooming so you
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can get it and hit a button before it
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seems back out because it's just
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completely not tailored I saw the i saw
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one where you you had to go through how
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to click to it terms and agreements
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thing in a webview and I don't know how
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they programmed it but it was a tiny
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tiny little button and why don't know
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how they did it but everytime you pinch
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zoom down the iphone it would instantly
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go back out to the full-size yeah yeah
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I've seen the affectionate it's an
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unsuitable webpage and so it leaves you
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like the the tiniest touch target in the
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history of times like this one pixel on
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if you have to get your touch centered
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yeah you really would need sandpaper to
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whittle down your fingers at that point
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so we were recording today is a tuesday
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july 24 but we're not releasing the show
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until tomorrow and that will be after
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the mountain lion embargo so we will
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talk we can talk now online
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yes we can I because everybody we're all
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signed up on the NDA and and everything
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like that but before we get to that I
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was thinking we should talk about
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Marissa Mayer is a mayor Meyer and it's
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uh it's Meyer might even though it's
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spelled like mayor right so i have never
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guessed one of those things where I
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don't think I've ever talked about on
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the show and if i don't talk about
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somebody I don't really know how to
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pronounce your name so it end job i
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think i mean i think this is a good move
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for yahoo i really i don't see how they
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could possibly have gotten a better a
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better CEO yeah it was totally out of
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left field i mean it makes sense in
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hindsight but no one was really thinking
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that and i'm not sure exactly why but I
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there's no rumor there was no whisper
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about it you know nothing thinking that
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this was a possibility i guess it's just
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because yahoo has had such a string of
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kind of either boring hires or like you
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know kinda obvious things and and there
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was reports that the ross levinsohn guy
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who's the guy who was interim CEO was
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just going to get the job and they were
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kind of going through the motions you
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know that are viewing a few that's what
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i expected to I did you read I think
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Steven leavey had a good post i think
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was yesterday for Wired talking about
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Marissa Mayer's role at Google where you
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know obviously she was there for a long
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time in her role evolved over the time
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she was in charge search and then most
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recently she was in charge of kind of
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local stuff but she also started and ran
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the program called a p.m. which is like
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associate product manager I think no I
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didn't I didn't see this
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so basically she was running what is
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effectively inside Google leader a
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leadership training program and they had
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a few hundred people go throughout go
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through this under her through you know
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the decade or so that she was running it
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and these people include like Brett
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Taylor who's the guy who eventually
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would go on to become CTO facebook they
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have a guy who's in charge of of chrome
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not son dar try another guy who's just
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under him who's a kind of spearheading
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that program and he's the one who
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actually took over the APM project but
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anyway the long story short is that
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Steven Levy writes this
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pretty good post suggesting that marissa
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meyer is even more uh better equipped to
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this Yahoo CEO job because she really
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trained the cream of the crop at Google
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and now has these great relationships
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they have all stated touch their
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supposedly all very close they would go
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on these long trips together in him and
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for one of them leaving was embedded you
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know odd somewhere in in Africa I think
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or Eastern Europe and they would do
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these once a year and they would all
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form these tight bonds and they stay in
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touch after all these years most of
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those people obviously since left Google
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but now of course mark meyer still has
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those relationships that she could
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potentially bring in if she could even
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bring in you know five or six of those
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people that's that's potentially huge
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who I have I've long had the sense that
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not that she was on the outside google
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but that and and other people have said
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you know that she had like a glass
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ceiling but like she wasn't going there
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was no we're above that google that she
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was going to get to move up to right
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kind of get the sense that she hasn't
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been as influential as she was in the
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yeah it seems like the early days you
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know she was whatever the tenth employee
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or something like that and you know
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everyone is probably doing a lot of work
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back then and and through the time when
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there were a hundred employees and she
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was you know one of the senior people
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and she was in charge of you know
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there's the talk that she was in charge
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of the design aesthetic and all that
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kind of stuff and then is they slowly
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transition from two more than a search
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engine I think her role just kept
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getting diminished and diminished and
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then finally whenever it was a couple
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years ago or something when they move
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her often who knows if they moved her
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off she asked to be moved off she's been
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working on it for so long but moved off
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of search which is of course the bread
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and butter of google still you know it
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seemed from the outside that you know
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they were just decided to go in a
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different direction and it was pretty
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telling that they didn't give her an SVP
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position even though you know her
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seniority you know they had someone else
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running local ok Jeff Huber i believe
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was elevated to SVP of kind of local and
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commerce above her so yeah I think the
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writing was on the wall that she was
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eventually going to leave and it's
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surprising that they didn't elevate her
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to an SVP status but who knows
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yeah you never know what the inside
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politics are but from the outside I
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always thought that that she was of the
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google that i like best
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you know and i think that like it and
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it's also it's the sort of thing like
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with Apple where you just you take some
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of this stuff for granted that it's as
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simple as it is but I think like the
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fact that the google homepage is just a
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search field and two buttons
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yep I you can say well anybody could do
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that but i think that by I can't even
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imagine how many times she had to say no
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to things that other people at Google
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wanted to do on that that homepage
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oh yeah i mean i remember you know every
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since 10 years five years everyone keeps
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just imagine if they had like a giant
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display at behind you know behind Google
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right on google.com you know how many
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tens of millions or hundreds of millions
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of dollars without generating revenue
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every single year but they just didn't
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do it and yeah yeah most accounts that
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was that was her job and her you know
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her insight to not mess up that main
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experience and that's what makes me
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optimistic about her being a good CEO
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for yahoo is that she obviously has that
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ability to say no I mean that's like the
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famous Steve Jobs quote that he's
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prouder of the things they said no to
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the things they actually said yes to
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because that's what that's what keeps
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yeah and i would say along those lines
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you know I've met her a number of times
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I don't know her all that well but you
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know we've counted from here from time
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to time dr. onstage a few times i will
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say that you know my impression of her
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is that she's extremely opinionated
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which i think is great because she has
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you know things that she likes and she
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has her own ideas of what she wants to
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do and she's gonna get them done because
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that's just who she is and that's you
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know all the accounts from people who
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worked under her at Google will say the
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same thing it's just you know she's not
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wishy-washy she doesn't really have any
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understanding of what she's trying to do
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she knows what she wants to do and she
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goes for it and you know that's awesome
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right ideally i think the best type of
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leaders have extremely strong opinions
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loosely held right like another eligible
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right in other words like with--like
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with Tim Cook talking about Steve Jobs
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that guy had the strongest opinions of
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anybody in the world but he might change
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them tomorrow any upright right and
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those people often you know kind of like
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that at the time they make it you know
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upset or whatever in an argument they it
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seems like they always kind of fall back
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on the idea that they love it if someone
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can stand up to them and can actually
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make their case to change their mind
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about it that's like the best thing in
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the world for those people right i mean
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i think all I i often think because I
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mean and and it's just one of those like
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ways that everything comes full circle a
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lot of times is that you know famously
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almost infamously yahoo had the chance
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to acquire google in the early days
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yep and yep and by you know did not
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didn't quite offer enough money in
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never happen but i think it's i think
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it's always been pretty clear that
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Google held up yahoo is a look that's
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they made mistakes that we don't want to
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make yeah yeah and that helped them no
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doubt right on it and we have it's funny
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because I still think of Google is the
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upstart and yahoo is the old guard but
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in you know by now by today's date
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they're actually relatively the same age
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it wasn't yahoo was informed that much
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earlier than google right it just that
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those first few years of yahoo were the
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explosive years of the.com yeah you
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still here though I like you know I
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talked to start ups every once in a
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while who either cut some kind of deal
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with yahoo or do something with them
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where they kind of run a test on their
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homepage and it's still an insane amount
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of crushing traffic that anyone would be
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happy to get and that's why you know
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that's why it's great that someone can
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actually steer that in the right
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direction there's no question that they
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still have a lot of people going there i
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think what is it now it's not the it's
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not the number one most trafficked
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website anymore it might be two maybe
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I don't know what it is but its its way
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up there still right and i think that's
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an opportunity I think that will be the
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first thing that you see it change about
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i think that there and I don't think any
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previous CEO yahoo is really left a
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personal and like wow that that there's
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►
a new CEO in charge of yahoo look at
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yeah that's definitely true and i don't
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know i think that should be the first
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thing that she does is make some changes
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that yahoo.com is there's a new sheriff
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in town and it's there so if there's
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►
focus at this company she should put up
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►
did you see that picture circulating
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around or it's the Obama hope picture
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but it's of versus a face know
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supposedly being split up last around
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Yahoo's campus right now okay I i talked
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►
to a friend who works at flickr and they
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are definitely some optimism
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I'm excited for that I mean I just I it
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was it randomly i logged onto flickr for
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the first time i did i was so bad that I
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had to reset my yahoo password and even
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so that's how bad yahoo wasn't in my
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head so i reset my password and login to
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my flickr account and it was expired I
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think it just expired like six months
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ago signed up for it too
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►
here you know rite aid plan uh so I'm
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excited to see if they can you know
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really not only turn the a brain around
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but all these sub-brands I really would
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like to use flickr for something cool
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again and and I'd like to sign up for my
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program i mean they have tens of
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thousands of pictures just saved
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►
it's really nice that they actually
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don't delete them you know even if you
◼
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let your pro account expire they only
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let you see a hundred of them but they
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keep them all around just in case so
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►
that's great yeah there's definitely
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some opportunities there i also think
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yeah what do you think she's going to do
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with the with Microsoft deal in terms of
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obviously being powers or search now
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they handle like some of the front and
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stuff you know they do some different
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►
things and being does itself with search
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but how do you think that shall approach
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that well that's what I'd I honestly
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don't know and I'm not close enough
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I don't you know that i could see it
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going one of two ways I could see it
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where that gets abandoned in yahoo and
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google sort of you know because of the
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personal relationships becomes semi
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yep I or if it's bad blood and maybe it
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goes the other way you know I and yeah
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they you know in the in the initial
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►
stories of her leaving you know there
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►
was one i think it was in New York Times
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►
report that said I you know my mayor
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►
called Larry Page by phone that day to
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►
resign on the spot and shit you know
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►
there's no two weeks notice or anything
◼
►
she's called by phone but of course
◼
►
Larry page's voice issues or whatever so
◼
►
maybe he wasn't around who knows you
◼
►
know what the deal is with that but it
◼
►
seems like there's a little bit of bad
◼
►
blood between them but you know who
◼
►
knows maybe that's reading too much into
◼
►
it but I think you're absolutely right i
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think it really that kind of is a is
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it's a pretty major factor in what she
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ends up doing you know maybe maybe she
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►
just looks at the numbers and realize
◼
►
that the microsoft deal is too good to
◼
►
kind of you know dissolve it's
◼
►
interesting that when Microsoft was
◼
►
trying to my yahoo few years ago
◼
►
remember obviously yahoo pushback
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►
heavily and they were looking for anyone
◼
►
to help them including Google and at one
◼
►
point they had that kind of at least it
◼
►
you know had a handshake agreement to do
◼
►
some sort of similar ever
◼
►
tising search deal with google that they
◼
►
ended up doing with Microsoft but they
◼
►
had to drop it because the government
◼
►
officially look into it but they'll all
◼
►
indications were that the government was
◼
►
going to look into it but there was also
◼
►
because yahoo is by far the number two
◼
►
search engine at the time to google and
◼
►
microsoft was a non-player now Microsoft
◼
►
is number two and i don't know you know
◼
►
maybe the government would be ok with
◼
►
with yahoo and google tying up together
◼
►
or maybe they still would
◼
►
yeah i don't know i think it's going to
◼
►
be interesting to see how that plays out
◼
►
and I think in hindsight it will become
◼
►
obvious how acrimonious it is that she
◼
►
left them you know is it seen inside
◼
►
Google as a betrayal or is it you know
◼
►
good for her and now we're sort of like
◼
►
partners sort of like and a comparison
◼
►
that I've seen other people make is to
◼
►
Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft di-
◼
►
left for nokia and as soon as you got to
◼
►
nokia forge this extremely tired boss
◼
►
you know that whereas it seems pretty
◼
►
obvious and that the nokia diehards the
◼
►
people who don't like that they've that
◼
►
they don't have their operating system
◼
►
anymore see it as you know that this was
◼
►
planned from the start that he was like
◼
►
I think I i think i alluded to that when
◼
►
it first happened that that is awesome
◼
►
that Microsoft gotta plant in in Nokia's
◼
►
area and I think that through some
◼
►
higher from Frank shot his head
◼
►
microsoft corporate communications they
◼
►
did not like that too much
◼
►
well I mean however much it was planned
◼
►
and however much that you know that this
◼
►
was it was agreed upon and events it's
◼
►
certainly in hindsight is shown know
◼
►
that Stephen Elop experience as a
◼
►
Microsoft executive certainly influenced
◼
►
his leadership in nokia in a very Pro
◼
►
ya mean that's definitely right i mean
◼
►
we doesn't really matter whether you
◼
►
think that it's good or bad for nokia
◼
►
but that certainly is the way it's
◼
►
I don't you know I think we'll have to
◼
►
see if it's going to happen like that
◼
►
with with marissa mayer right there's
◼
►
something to be said for you know just
◼
►
doing what you know and what you've done
◼
►
for the past decade or more and that's
◼
►
like you know it's the rest of our
◼
►
google runs very thick through her blood
◼
►
so you know maybe she does just turn to
◼
►
them for certain things that that
◼
►
previous yahoo CEOs one
◼
►
done another thing that you brought up
◼
►
if you know right after it happened
◼
►
which was interesting you tweeted about
◼
►
did she use an iphone or not and they
◼
►
think you know a lot of people kind of
◼
►
dug up that you would see like the
◼
►
little uh little indications on Twitter
◼
►
and stuff that she was tweeting from an
◼
►
iphone and using Instagram in the early
◼
►
days and stuff like that
◼
►
that's interesting because you know it's
◼
►
kinda also shows that she wasn't so
◼
►
ingrained in the android culture that
◼
►
she's going to you know
◼
►
bend over backwards to fork make some
◼
►
kind of yahoo phone or something that's
◼
►
that's that's only working on android it
◼
►
seems like that won't happen and that's
◼
►
great yeah that you know and it wasn't
◼
►
just it wasn't just me trying to view
◼
►
everything from what's it mean for Apple
◼
►
perspective right by I think I think it
◼
►
shows that she has an open mind more
◼
►
than anything you know that she wasn't
◼
►
just another cog in the google machine
◼
►
that just uses android because you have
◼
►
to use android there she was willing and
◼
►
maybe it's great for from her viewpoint
◼
►
of a competitive landscape maybe she
◼
►
wanted just to use iphone maybe she
◼
►
liked it more maybe she wanted to use it
◼
►
because she really felt like she needed
◼
►
to stay on top of you know what are the
◼
►
big emerging trends out there
◼
►
well any other thing that makes it
◼
►
interesting now that she's the CEO at
◼
►
yahoo's the yahoo I it is quiet but they
◼
►
have a bunch of partnerships with Apple
◼
►
as it the content provider for the
◼
►
yeah and it's even more with I was 6 or
◼
►
because I've already talked about kind
◼
►
of the the Serie and sports integration
◼
►
I think that's yahoo sports yes it is
◼
►
its yeah this all the sports stuff in
◼
►
ios6 is powered by yahoo sports and
◼
►
yahoo sports is actually one of the
◼
►
powerhouse properties in yahoo i mean
◼
►
everybody is not a huge sports fan it's
◼
►
it's sort of quietly everybody thinks of
◼
►
things like flickr and the search and
◼
►
and yahoo mail and stuff like that but
◼
►
Yahoo Sports is it easily top five
◼
►
sports site on the web
◼
►
maybe oh yeah i think it's too it might
◼
►
be to be you know you always hear these
◼
►
reports like an ESPN you'll hear in
◼
►
sports center where they talk about a
◼
►
report from yahoo sports yeah and that
◼
►
happens all the time it's a part of it
◼
►
is because the huge part of it is
◼
►
because they actually invested quite
◼
►
in original journalism ya on that side
◼
►
of things in the plan I think way back
◼
►
when the plan was to kind of start that
◼
►
with Yahoo Sports see if it would work
◼
►
and then go into other verticals and
◼
►
they just never really did that to see
◼
►
if they could replace like you know the
◼
►
AP Reuters and become like one of the
◼
►
you know main sources of wire news and
◼
►
whatnot but they did do a great job
◼
►
hiring at yahoo sports and it it remains
◼
►
a great place for you know breaking
◼
►
yeah and i think it's i don't know I I
◼
►
would yeah i think it's either number
◼
►
one or number two probably after ESPN
◼
►
I'm guess yeah I would imagine ESPN's 1
◼
►
i'm probably too maybe CBS 4s but i
◼
►
think it's i think it's probably yahoo
◼
►
sports and it's by far the biggest of
◼
►
the online-only properties right like
◼
►
you know the ones that are that competes
◼
►
with our the TV mostly the TV one's by
◼
►
ESPN and CBS Sports is big
◼
►
I and probably Sports Illustrated right
◼
►
yeah that's part of it yeah that's
◼
►
that's really interesting they're also
◼
►
huge obviously in finance right so they
◼
►
have a network that's what powers the
◼
►
iOS stocks app is still right yahoo
◼
►
financial information so that's another
◼
►
big vertical from yahoo news is still
◼
►
I think I don't know if I think google
◼
►
news may have overtaken it is bigger
◼
►
property but it's still you know a major
◼
►
driving factor and what people use yahoo
◼
►
for rent and I i think that Mobile is
◼
►
obviously a huge question going forward
◼
►
for yahoo and you know Apple obviously
◼
►
has as you know the whole shebang google
◼
►
obviously has android microsoft has
◼
►
windows phone haha yahoo doesn't really
◼
►
have its own or not even I shouldn't
◼
►
even say really just doesn't have any
◼
►
kind of mobile right they have no in of
◼
►
their own right there
◼
►
they're completely at the beck and call
◼
►
of these other players right and i think
◼
►
it was you know I bigger pointless for
◼
►
them to start I think that they're there
◼
►
play from mobile is I think to be a
◼
►
yes right they absolutely should and
◼
►
there and that's it's working so far for
◼
►
you would imagine that it won't work for
◼
►
the google flavored android because
◼
►
they'll they have their own competing
◼
►
services across the board for all that
◼
►
stuff for search for sport well not
◼
►
really for sports maybe we could do for
◼
►
sports but for finance revenues but you
◼
►
know maybe sports and you know certainly
◼
►
maybe they could do something with
◼
►
Microsoft given the big deal for windows
◼
►
yeah i think that's that's the way to do
◼
►
well any other things that that struck
◼
►
me about microsoft is now Microsoft is
◼
►
out of MSNBC no yeah right like they got
◼
►
out of the TV channel wide while back
◼
►
yep but they were they were still
◼
►
partners on the on the website and now
◼
►
they're not so I I i do think there's
◼
►
some opportunities there where they can
◼
►
sort of try to play it up cross no not
◼
►
just not just Apple but you know
◼
►
across-the-board try to get the yahoo
◼
►
properties established as the leading
◼
►
yeah that's smart i forget who was I
◼
►
don't was a you i don't think it was you
◼
►
who said like one simple goal for yahoo
◼
►
you know like just talking about that
◼
►
right after the hiring talking what
◼
►
Yahoo should focus on like just just
◼
►
trying to get one app on the main screen
◼
►
of like every iOS and Android device out
◼
►
there and is it and I think that it's
◼
►
good that good strategy i think yeah I
◼
►
think that's absolutely edge it's it's a
◼
►
clear goal i think it's in I think it's
◼
►
yeah yeah and and so google apple also
◼
►
has the deals for yahoo mail obviously
◼
►
they've had that since the beginning it
◼
►
and yeah also sort of interesting
◼
►
because it's also I think hotmail is
◼
►
bigger which is weird but i think that's
◼
►
the biggest one and I think yahoo mail
◼
►
is still number two with google quickly
◼
►
catching up to it but that's that's
◼
►
another property that's huge there's
◼
►
yahoo messenger it seems like IM is sort
◼
►
of falling by the wayside you know maybe
◼
►
they can do some interesting video stuff
◼
►
and compete with skype more something
◼
►
like that but these are you know things
◼
►
that that tens of millions of people use
◼
►
every day if not a hundred million
◼
►
people it's kind of a crazy thing
◼
►
they're scale at that point and I think
◼
►
that the and i think the other thing
◼
►
they've got to do is they've got to
◼
►
start thinking about what's the next big
◼
►
absolutely and that that will require
◼
►
you know bringing in some some real
◼
►
outside thinkers not just the people who
◼
►
have obviously been at yahoo for the
◼
►
past 10 years and you know it sucks but
◼
►
i hope that they do clear house quite a
◼
►
bit it seems like there's you know you
◼
►
don't want to call him dead weight but
◼
►
it seems like there's just a lot of
◼
►
people you talk to former and current
◼
►
yahoo employees even they just say
◼
►
people are just they're collecting a
◼
►
paycheck and they're not really inspired
◼
►
maybe this hiring inspires fifty percent
◼
►
of them but they're still going to be
◼
►
fifty percent who are just you know just
◼
►
their kind of kicking around there
◼
►
they're B players when they need to be a
◼
►
player's kind of situation i'd totally
◼
►
agree i think they got a clean house
◼
►
focus focus focus get a nap on ever get
◼
►
try to get one app on everybody's home
◼
►
screen and then figure out what the next
◼
►
big thing that yahoo can can start the
◼
►
market for yeah definitely I like our
◼
►
chances i really do i do too i think
◼
►
every you know there's there's reason
◼
►
why the consensus is that this is a good
◼
►
thing you know there's a few naysayers
◼
►
who say like I'll she didn't get along
◼
►
with anyone that you at Google but
◼
►
there's always going to be stories of
◼
►
you know you and you can report any
◼
►
story that you want you can always find
◼
►
someone to say that but i think that the
◼
►
general consensus you know ninety
◼
►
percent of the people are saying that
◼
►
this is a good thing i think it actually
◼
►
is a good thing and you never have seen
◼
►
this before at least in recent memory of
◼
►
yahoo even when jerry yang came back
◼
►
right uh it was you know is like a case
◼
►
they're gonna try and do like it Steve
◼
►
Jobs rejuvenation type thing but is this
◼
►
really going to work and of course it
◼
►
didn't work at all right on it certainly
◼
►
success is definitely not insured but i
◼
►
think it's amps it's definitely a
◼
►
possibility the opportunity is there
◼
►
I also think too that anybody who who
◼
►
says know a lot is obviously going to
◼
►
I mean maybe enemies the wrong word but
◼
►
they're going to have people say which I
◼
►
do I didn't like working under her
◼
►
because she said no to all this stuff
◼
►
alright yeah alright let me take a break
◼
►
and let me thank our first sponsor i
◼
►
studio neat studio need is a small
◼
►
design shop love these guys they started
◼
►
that first time I noticed them they have
◼
►
a product called the glyph glif
◼
►
it's a tripod mountain stand for the
◼
►
iphone 4 and 4s and it's a brilliant
◼
►
little design because it's multi-use
◼
►
it's one little piece of plastic and
◼
►
rubber with a little um tripod mount on
◼
►
one side so you snapped on the side of
◼
►
your iphone and it fits on any standard
◼
►
tripod if you're using it to shoot video
◼
►
works great in conjunction with
◼
►
something like a gorillapod little
◼
►
flexible tripod that you can mount on
◼
►
just about anything and you take the
◼
►
glove off turn it sideways and it turns
◼
►
into a little love prop up your iphone
◼
►
like as an easel type thing I use it all
◼
►
the time for that you watch i watch
◼
►
baseball games on my iphone use the
◼
►
I they've got another great little
◼
►
product called the cosmonaut it's a wide
◼
►
grip style is sort of like this sort of
◼
►
like a fat magic marker stylist for any
◼
►
touchscreen first thing I think anybody
◼
►
thinks when they see is why is it so fat
◼
►
white white why isn't a finer tip
◼
►
because the touchscreens we have aren't
◼
►
meant for fine tip styluses they're
◼
►
meant for something the size of a finger
◼
►
so the cosmonaut has like a finger-sized
◼
►
stylus tip works great use it all the
◼
►
my son loves it free using apps on the
◼
►
iPad like color and they also have but
◼
►
also they have they have a app its frame
◼
►
agra fur it's a stop motion timelapse
◼
►
moviemaking app so if you make make
◼
►
little movies like with Lego figures or
◼
►
something like that stop motion
◼
►
obviously works great in conjunction
◼
►
with the glyph just great great products
◼
►
from a small design shop just two guys
◼
►
making products selling love the stories
◼
►
they've got a 20-percent discount for
◼
►
everybody listens to the show so you go
◼
►
to their website studio neat any 80
◼
►
studio neat dot-com enter the talk show
◼
►
all one word the talk show you get
◼
►
twenty percent off anything you order
◼
►
from the store studio neat i want to
◼
►
thank these guys we wouldn't be doing
◼
►
use a stylus with your with your i
◼
►
paddle never do you know this this
◼
►
cosmonaut thing is sort of interesting
◼
►
i've seen it you know out around before
◼
►
but it's a hook that kind of like a cran
◼
►
yeah one of those big fat cranes yeah
◼
►
that's good you know there is that story
◼
►
a couple days ago that I forget who
◼
►
reported it but that Microsoft is
◼
►
looking into you know next-generation
◼
►
styluses 442 use with their surface
◼
►
devices or went out and you know your
◼
►
kind of reminded of that the Steve Jobs
◼
►
quote that if you see let's see a
◼
►
stylist they blew it but this one is
◼
►
good huh what's this guy's butt up
◼
►
yeah well it's it's good for it's great
◼
►
for what the ipad is in fact 18 when
◼
►
they designed it they had a blog post
◼
►
about it and they said look if if the
◼
►
tip has to be fat and all the other
◼
►
stylists do you see for the ipad ones
◼
►
that look like more like a regular pet
◼
►
yep still have like a pinky finger size
◼
►
tip at the end because that's what the
◼
►
screen sense with the touch sensor is
◼
►
optimized for right on so no it's not
◼
►
like riding with a fine tip pen and you
◼
►
can you can get tiny little handwriting
◼
►
it's you know it's like a marker but if
◼
►
it's if that's what the tip has to be
◼
►
why not give you a big thick marker in
◼
►
your hand it's almost like you like
◼
►
writing on a on a small white board
◼
►
instead of pen and paper huh that's
◼
►
ok so like from a practical like given
◼
►
the the practical aspects of what the
◼
►
ipad screen already it supports as a
◼
►
touchscreen it's it's like an optimal
◼
►
marker for nice and and and people often
◼
►
say to me people often go cuz i quote
◼
►
the APCs stylist they blew it i right
◼
►
whatwhat jobs men about that though is
◼
►
is a device that ships with a stylus and
◼
►
in writing requires that right either
◼
►
requires it or is intended to be used a
◼
►
not that there's never a case for it i
◼
►
mean i think a nap like paper or any of
◼
►
the drawing apps for the ipad i
◼
►
absolutely work better with a stylus
◼
►
yep yeah and I think that's you know
◼
►
what is the Galaxy Note has one right
◼
►
there right a giant phablet and it's
◼
►
affected that ships with one I think I
◼
►
just saw that they're going to do a
◼
►
galaxy note 10 now like their content
◼
►
yeah they're gonna use that because I
◼
►
guess it is a big seller especially in
◼
►
in Korea that they're gonna use the note
◼
►
brand as well it makes sense i mean it
◼
►
I you know someone once I've only seen
◼
►
it a couple times but someone's head one
◼
►
stage you know you have them hold it up
◼
►
to their face just to see how big it is
◼
►
it's not that much different than the
◼
►
size of the galaxy 7 which is where the
◼
►
nexus 7 which is sort of funny
◼
►
yeah speaking of which you about two
◼
►
weeks ago you know you reviewed the
◼
►
nexus 7 over at TechCrunch and you liked
◼
►
yes i did i did and I you know I liked
◼
►
it a lot more than I expected to you
◼
►
know it's kind of I was I was gone
◼
►
uh I was abroad when Google i/o happen
◼
►
where they had failed it and I was kinda
◼
►
i was watching the Twitter chatter and
◼
►
and I'd heard a little thing a few
◼
►
things here and there about what was
◼
►
coming and so it intrigued me because I
◼
►
wanted to see what the form factors like
◼
►
I mostly wanted to see if google would
◼
►
be able to google and their partner aces
◼
►
would be able to create a decent even
◼
►
tablet for under two hundred dollars
◼
►
because we've all seen the kindle fire
◼
►
it sucks you know it's it's 200 is under
◼
►
two hundred dollars but i am not making
◼
►
any money selling it and it still sucks
◼
►
so I was very curious to see what if it
◼
►
would be any good and so the the initial
◼
►
reports coming out seem to suggest that
◼
►
was pretty good and so Google was nice
◼
►
enough to send me one too to take a look
◼
►
at and you know props to them they know
◼
►
that I I'm pretty negative towards
◼
►
google image in recent years in general
◼
►
but they know i think that you know if
◼
►
they if they actually make a good
◼
►
product i'm gonna call it like I see it
◼
►
and say that it's a pretty good product
◼
►
and i do believe that this is a pretty
◼
►
good product i think that you know it's
◼
►
it's a lot of people want to frame and
◼
►
of course the ipad it's different right
◼
►
now because one is you know a 9.7 inch
◼
►
one is a 7-inch tablet and you you hear
◼
►
that in your mind and you think oh
◼
►
that's not the big difference but
◼
►
diagonally speaking the screen size and
◼
►
everything it's actually a pretty huge
◼
►
difference and that's i love the form
◼
►
factor of it and you know as I said in
◼
►
I think that this is the strongest case
◼
►
yet for why Apple should do something in
◼
►
this in this form factor in all
◼
►
indications you know seem to be that
◼
►
they're going to do something maybe a
◼
►
little bit bigger of course but uh I you
◼
►
know the main thing is the form factor
◼
►
the second thing is that Android a 4.1
◼
►
jellybean variety is a is finally to the
◼
►
point where it feels smooth enough and
◼
►
it's interesting i also have it
◼
►
installed on a Galaxy Nexus which is you
◼
►
know their last flagship device and i
◼
►
definitely liked it more on the nexus 7
◼
►
i don't know if you know III this device
◼
►
is obviously a little bit faster than
◼
►
that but uh for whatever reason i just i
◼
►
think it's it's much more nicely attuned
◼
►
to do that 7-inch tablet than it is to
◼
►
the the 4 inch or whatever size screen
◼
►
the the Galaxy Nexus has and maybe
◼
►
because there's less scrolling involved
◼
►
yeah good because I still feel like I
◼
►
still feel like that's the one thing on
◼
►
Android that is very jarring is
◼
►
scrolling yeah it it's you know they
◼
►
made a big point about saying how
◼
►
buttery they even call it butter right
◼
►
their new accelerated thing it's still
◼
►
it's not as smooth as iOS four you know
◼
►
whatever reason they can't get that to
◼
►
happen but it's you know it's something
◼
►
that i think the majority of consumers
◼
►
would would would not care about and/or
◼
►
notice except subconsciously which I do
◼
►
think it's so important I think you know
◼
►
when people think about quality there's
◼
►
subconscious things going on you know
◼
►
when they use the device when they pick
◼
►
it up at an apple store and just don't
◼
►
even realize like oh this is so much
◼
►
smoother it's just kind of a little
◼
►
thing but I think for the most part the
◼
►
price and the size of this makes it
◼
►
compelling to a lot of people and I
◼
►
think they're going to have strong sales
◼
►
the indications are that they're already
◼
►
a failing to meet some demand for it
◼
►
it's a very good time and I do think
◼
►
that mean they have explicitly pitched
◼
►
it as a consumption device
◼
►
I mean they're an addy I into their
◼
►
credit i actually think that sort of
◼
►
focus is why the product is getting I
◼
►
haven't I actually haven't seen a bad
◼
►
review of the next system
◼
►
yeah and I think that that having that
◼
►
sort of focus so here's what it's meant
◼
►
for it is meant for buying stuff from
◼
►
our google play store
◼
►
yeah we went to the point where they put
◼
►
that stuff on the main screen like they
◼
►
have this widget and in jellybean that's
◼
►
basically like you can rearrange things
◼
►
a bit but they have you know giant
◼
►
picture of a magazine you know that
◼
►
comes shipped with it's like an Esquire
◼
►
or something and then they have a
◼
►
Transformers movie box a artwork so you
◼
►
have that on there too and then you have
◼
►
a couple books that they shipped with it
◼
►
they make it front and center very
◼
►
obvious that this is about this is about
◼
►
media consumption and the google play
◼
►
store right and i also think you know
◼
►
and i know we for three years now we've
◼
►
had these arguments about the ipad is it
◼
►
for consumption is it good for creation
◼
►
is a general-purpose computer I and as a
◼
►
platform it's for anything I mean
◼
►
eventually these tablet OS is like
◼
►
android and iOS could be used that you
◼
►
know that's that's the future of
◼
►
computing in general for everything on
◼
►
so the argument isn't is the ipad mostly
◼
►
used for consumption yes probably it is
◼
►
but that you know windows is mostly used
◼
►
for consumption most people don't make
◼
►
websites most people just reading right
◼
►
i mean I stuff my entire the entire
◼
►
internet is that way I mean you know
◼
►
there's the rule where it's ten percent
◼
►
creators and ninety percent you know
◼
►
consumers of of the information yeah but
◼
►
i do think that that's the argument in
◼
►
favor of or a big part of the argument
◼
►
and end of Apple jumping into this you
◼
►
know smaller tablet market is for people
◼
►
who are just look I just want to watch
◼
►
some TV shows while I sit in bed with
◼
►
something that just comfortably sits on
◼
►
my you know I'm propped up in bed
◼
►
yeah it's a great form factor I think
◼
►
you know going back really quick to the
◼
►
two that the media side of things and
◼
►
kind of these these devices being set up
◼
►
for the google play store you know the
◼
►
one of the biggest criticisms I had of
◼
►
the Nexus 7 is that while google is
◼
►
playing this up as as a device for
◼
►
consumption of the google play content
◼
►
Google Play content is still not nearly
◼
►
where it needs to be in relation to both
◼
►
Apple and Amazon I mean they still don't
◼
►
have warner music on there so that you
◼
►
know don't have a quarter of of the
◼
►
music catalog out there in the world are
◼
►
on this that you can get on this device
◼
►
what do you do with if you have you know
◼
►
REM or something or some other Warner
◼
►
artist that you really want and you can
◼
►
get it you could use of course
◼
►
spotifyrdio or one of those but you know
◼
►
there's Google is trying to get you to
◼
►
use the google play store and they just
◼
►
don't have the same amount of content
◼
►
same goes with magazine same goes with
◼
►
same goes with even-even films they
◼
►
don't have everything right and and so
◼
►
it's kinda I did I still don't really
◼
►
think that Google has the complete
◼
►
picture worked out of how this should
◼
►
work it's kind of confusing as to why
◼
►
they're forcing everyone into this
◼
►
mentality that this is for the google
◼
►
play store when the google you know the
◼
►
play store isn't quite ready for prime
◼
►
time yet but i think they saw the the
◼
►
Amazon threat of the kindle fire you
◼
►
know taking control of Android itself
◼
►
for the tablets and they just felt like
◼
►
they had to make this move right now
◼
►
right and i think it was a very right
◼
►
it's very much it really is exactly what
◼
►
they said it was there's no hidden
◼
►
purpose to it is to have a device to
◼
►
support their online media that you know
◼
►
yeah yeah and and you know while it's
◼
►
well it's definitely it's definitely a
◼
►
hit on the advice that they don't have
◼
►
any 3g you know or wireless capabilities
◼
►
whatsoever i also think that that's a
◼
►
great move on their part just because
◼
►
just because the fact they can show the
◼
►
carrier's finally that they have some
◼
►
uh you know that they can actually sell
◼
►
these things without needing the carrier
◼
►
right uh you know to do it and so they
◼
►
can finally ship android the new android
◼
►
updates and not have to worry about any
◼
►
carrier having any say over when these
◼
►
wear these rollouts actually come i do
◼
►
think the next that brings us back to
◼
►
the commercial in the commercial is this
◼
►
the dad camping with his son and they're
◼
►
using the nexus 7 to do all sorts of
◼
►
cool things at night on and the big
◼
►
reveal at the end of the commercial is
◼
►
that other just can't they're actually
◼
►
just camping in the backyard right which
◼
►
explains why how they had no internet
◼
►
access because it's Wi-Fi on right i
◼
►
mean the other explanation would be that
◼
►
the dad had my fire or something you
◼
►
know it in his bag but that's not going
◼
►
to work for a sexy commercial yeah
◼
►
that's it's sort of funny the way that
◼
►
they did it just kind of nodding to the
◼
►
fact that you probably don't want to use
◼
►
this thing actually in the
◼
►
the woods that you will just want to use
◼
►
a close to your house or close to a
◼
►
place of work somewhere with Wi-Fi i do
◼
►
wonder i wonder if the lack of a of a 3g
◼
►
version if they're about to be hit on
◼
►
two sides on that front though because
◼
►
what if and what if the kindle to Kindle
◼
►
Fire 2 has yeah that's a great point
◼
►
because I amazon already has those
◼
►
relationships right with with the kindle
◼
►
itself they had who'd ya at first I
◼
►
think they tmobile and then they got
◼
►
AT&T to provide for free
◼
►
it was baked into the cost of the device
◼
►
but you could get updates of your books
◼
►
and download books for free without
◼
►
having to worry about a monthly bill
◼
►
thing right I do wonder how they would
◼
►
negotiate that if if it was a general
◼
►
consumption device meaning you know you
◼
►
could browse the web and download movies
◼
►
uh it seems like it would be a little
◼
►
little pricey for them to I don't think
◼
►
trying to negotiate something without a
◼
►
deal right now I don't think and I don't
◼
►
think they could possibly do that for
◼
►
free i mean nobody they can do it they
◼
►
got away with it on the E and candles
◼
►
because that's so little data right and
◼
►
Emmy of you mean if you ever tried using
◼
►
the web browser on one of those things
◼
►
minutes you know it's almost it's like a
◼
►
parlor trick it's not really
◼
►
yeah it's not really feasible it's like
◼
►
getting web pages by facts right but
◼
►
maybe may I got they would have to I
◼
►
imagines do the same kind of deal that
◼
►
Apple did with the ipad where you have a
◼
►
a come come as you want to take plan
◼
►
we're just you know you can pay one
◼
►
month and not pay the next imagine they
◼
►
have to do that unless unless they did
◼
►
some deal with one of the carriers and
◼
►
they subsidize the price the kindle fire
◼
►
down to free because you signed up for
◼
►
ten dollars a month or something like
◼
►
that maybe they could do that but it
◼
►
still seems like the the bar has been
◼
►
set with these tablet devices that
◼
►
you're going to pay whatever you pay
◼
►
whatever the retail prices and you're
◼
►
not going to worry about a monthly bill
◼
►
Wright which brings us to apples
◼
►
purported ipad mini and whether or not
◼
►
it will have 3g I i think it will I
◼
►
think it'll have the exact same sku
◼
►
configurations is as the big ipad so you
◼
►
think it will have 4g as well and also
◼
►
LTE know I'd well I don't know I don't
◼
►
that yeah I i guess that comes down to
◼
►
two battery in and yeah that's the
◼
►
biggest factor i would imagine for what
◼
►
they are decided by maybe because a lot
◼
►
of what I've been seeing lately
◼
►
speculates that a big a bigger power
◼
►
drain on the ipad 3 is the retina
◼
►
display not the LT compared to the ipad
◼
►
2 that the screen is actually consuming
◼
►
a bigger reason why the battery is
◼
►
thicker than the LTE that's interesting
◼
►
LOL so you have to you have to consider
◼
►
the fact that you know were what six
◼
►
months removing us from the new ipad and
◼
►
so even now they probably have slightly
◼
►
better chips in terms of power
◼
►
consumption management for LTE can
◼
►
yeah I actually now that I think about
◼
►
it I think it's gonna be I think it
◼
►
probably would if it has 3g at all it
◼
►
would have LT and if they do that that's
◼
►
that's a killer feature right there
◼
►
right we'll have a lot of people are
◼
►
going to love that what do you think I
◼
►
am I thought on price is 299 I don't
◼
►
think they're gonna go to 199 what do
◼
►
you think there's I think they'll do 199
◼
►
wifi-only but and location and Andy
◼
►
usually amount of storage but they'll
◼
►
hit that price point and you'll have to
◼
►
pay i forget what the what's the premium
◼
►
for getting 3g on i think i think it's
◼
►
is it is only thirty dollars no it's a
◼
►
hundred and thirty dollars right right a
◼
►
hundred and thirty dollars that's all i
◼
►
said i would think you know 199 get you
◼
►
a Wi-Fi only one and 299 get you one
◼
►
with 3g like a hundred so how'd it how
◼
►
do you reconcile that then you know with
◼
►
the there was just a report yesterday
◼
►
and you know who knows these are
◼
►
one-time reports out of like Japan or
◼
►
China or wherever where you know talking
◼
►
about a new ipod touch it seems like a
◼
►
new ipod touch is coming because they
◼
►
haven't refresh your writing over a year
◼
►
it's been 22 years basically and if that
◼
►
device which now sells for 199 at the
◼
►
base level how do you reconcile the
◼
►
price discrepancy like those being the
◼
►
same price i just i don't think it's a I
◼
►
don't think it's a problem I think it's
◼
►
clear i think that with devices like
◼
►
yep there's that it's a one-way
◼
►
correlation smaller is cheaper bigger is
◼
►
more expensive because you're the bigger
◼
►
displays are more expensive yet but
◼
►
laptops only shrink to a certain size
◼
►
whereas stuff that fits in your pocket
◼
►
you actually pay a premium for
◼
►
miniaturization and to me it's exactly
◼
►
the same as the the dilemma over the
◼
►
original of going back to like 2,000 for
◼
►
the ipod mini rights which only had
◼
►
wrote about the other day is very is not
◼
►
there's not a huge price discrepancy
◼
►
even though it had less memory and it
◼
►
was just smaller right we're paying
◼
►
almost had it had less storage and only
◼
►
had four gigabytes of storage which was
◼
►
less than the original ipod from three
◼
►
years prior so people were like this is
◼
►
not no one's gonna buy this and the
◼
►
truth is people see wow that's way
◼
►
smaller and cooler looking I want that
◼
►
yeah I that so that's what I think I
◼
►
maybe maybe there's an issue where they
◼
►
don't want both of them priced exactly
◼
►
199 and they dropped the intro of the
◼
►
like the the base model of the ipod
◼
►
yeah something like that I but i don't
◼
►
think it's an issue because it's two
◼
►
i sighs yeah if they include so you know
◼
►
presumably a new ipod touch would have a
◼
►
Retina display because the old one
◼
►
already dice and it would presumably
◼
►
also have a better camera if they can be
◼
►
you know just as a camera device if it
◼
►
is just as good of a camera as the the
◼
►
iphone 4s does that's a killer camera
◼
►
device for you know kids to buy for 199
◼
►
and carry around with them and you know
◼
►
on top of everything else it does so I
◼
►
agree with you because the ipad mini
◼
►
will you no will call that will not be
◼
►
considered a camera device except for
◼
►
those few jackasses and counselors that
◼
►
will hold it as they always do with the
◼
►
regular ipad right with that I thought
◼
►
of that too is how many people I see
◼
►
with how many people I see using the
◼
►
iPad as a camera I can't even imagine
◼
►
how people are going to use the ipad
◼
►
mini and they'll just they'll have like
◼
►
head-mounted head-mounted displays with
◼
►
the with this little device probably two
◼
►
of them up there to be able to capture
◼
►
two different you know like it and it's
◼
►
the same thing going back to like stuff
◼
►
like Game Boys and and
◼
►
and you know the playstation portable
◼
►
and stuff like that like people know
◼
►
that the shrink it to fit in a pants
◼
►
pocket costs a lot of money
◼
►
yeah like white and white is a PSP a
◼
►
playstation portable cost as much as a
◼
►
the whole console right right
◼
►
I wonder you know they're so there's
◼
►
there's battery life as well so the
◼
►
Nexus 7 has great battery life part of
◼
►
the reason though is that it doesn't
◼
►
have the wireless uh you know chips in
◼
►
it so it's a it's only relying on Wi-Fi
◼
►
to be able to do that nor does it have a
◼
►
Retina display but we we assume right
◼
►
the ipad mini will not have a Retina
◼
►
display because you've made the great
◼
►
point you know great case for why it
◼
►
would if they do it would be cut from
◼
►
the same bright display as the three the
◼
►
iphone right and I don't know that for a
◼
►
fact that's just my own speculation and
◼
►
so maybe it would actually be a
◼
►
different technology but i still think
◼
►
though the fact that they have
◼
►
experienced massive amounts of
◼
►
experience for five years making exactly
◼
►
163 pics pixel print screens that it
◼
►
it's gotta work out in our favor
◼
►
operations was even if it's not
◼
►
literally cut from the same sheet says
◼
►
that the 3gs but I Isis I would be very
◼
►
surprised I wouldn't be surprised at all
◼
►
if when we get them and we look at it
◼
►
that it looks like you know a quadruple
◼
►
size 3gs and that's a that's you know
◼
►
that's another differentiating factor
◼
►
between what we just talked about the
◼
►
differentiating factors between the ipod
◼
►
touch and the this ipad mini yes also
◼
►
have to think obviously the ipad mini
◼
►
versus the regular ipad i mean yeah
◼
►
absolutely i think that and I know so I
◼
►
don't think that I i would expect that
◼
►
even if they even after even if it's
◼
►
true and apple does release this 7.5
◼
►
inch ipad mini at a aggressive price
◼
►
point I mean maybe it starts at two
◼
►
forty nine instead of young 99 me that
◼
►
way it's not more than half the price i
◼
►
mean i think that's I think 249 is a
◼
►
very very good bet if you're if you've
◼
►
got like an office pool on what the ipad
◼
►
mini starting price is going to be 2 49
◼
►
is committed and maybe even better than
◼
►
one menu and yeah and it's still I mean
◼
►
they could easily get away with doing
◼
►
that in a world of a of a 199 Nexus 7
◼
►
and Kindle Fire because there's so much
◼
►
more to just value in the ecosystem of
◼
►
all these apps that are made for the
◼
►
ipad they've all this content that's
◼
►
already out there they have millions of
◼
►
users that already have
◼
►
have all their apps you know that
◼
►
they've downloaded and so you know
◼
►
you're gonna have tens of millions of
◼
►
users right off the bat who buy this
◼
►
thing yeah even if they do it i don't
◼
►
expect that sales of the big ipad the
◼
►
regular one with the only one we know
◼
►
now i don't think that they'll drop it
◼
►
all I think they'll continue to grow
◼
►
I think it's a different i think it's
◼
►
expanding into a different market not
◼
►
eating into the same market and I wonder
◼
►
you know the margin question would be
◼
►
fascinating to kind of get into its like
◼
►
the there's they're getting down there
◼
►
because the ipad is already a lower
◼
►
margin device than the iphone right but
◼
►
that's a lot to do with subsidies and
◼
►
right you know that's that's a huge
◼
►
issue there but it's still it's still a
◼
►
healthy margin that they're making when
◼
►
you get down to if you get down to 249
◼
►
and 199 you know how much of a margin is
◼
►
that going to be can they really make
◼
►
these things for a hundred bucks can
◼
►
make them for a hundred and thirty bucks
◼
►
uh all said and done I i wouldn't be
◼
►
surprised especially if they can already
◼
►
make an ipod touch for one then you know
◼
►
you know and and you know I i think that
◼
►
you respect wise you know once the the
◼
►
iFixit guys take one apart and once we
◼
►
run benchmarks stuff on it you know it's
◼
►
not going to be the the latest and
◼
►
greatest system-on-a-chip it's not going
◼
►
to have the retina display and i think
◼
►
it's going to have you know like the the
◼
►
equivalent system-on-a-chip is like the
◼
►
iphone four maybe I don't know maybe the
◼
►
for us but the 4 s's are a year old now
◼
►
yeah ah yeah and I think that's that
◼
►
whole Tim Cook angle on Apple is that
◼
►
they they reuse these certain core
◼
►
technologies in a way that they just
◼
►
leverage the hell out of the economies
◼
►
of scale right i mean i would love to
◼
►
know what it costs them to make a 3gs
◼
►
now like what it actually call it like
◼
►
what would be the break-even price on an
◼
►
iphone 3gs well so it's subsidized down
◼
►
to zero but they said so what do they
◼
►
actually sell it for like we can get an
◼
►
unlocked one for is that 199 yeah
◼
►
somebody told me that somebody just had
◼
►
a story last week that in India they're
◼
►
selling it as a prepaid device for 199
◼
►
the equivalent of you know that once you
◼
►
you know right that it's about 200 bucks
◼
►
ok ok so that's interesting yeah yeah it
◼
►
because it's you know along lines of an
◼
►
ipad and ipod touch now yes right right
◼
►
yeah yeah okay yeah i mean i think it
◼
►
seems like this is this is going to
◼
►
happen now there's been too many reports
◼
►
out there right when there's this much
◼
►
smoke around something it's you know
◼
►
there's got to be something out there
◼
►
that it's coming it's always possible of
◼
►
course that apple would delay it at the
◼
►
last second because of some issue may be
◼
►
there maybe there's a supply issue like
◼
►
you know who knows what can happen along
◼
►
those lines but if they get this thing
◼
►
out in time for the holidays
◼
►
this could be you know the the greatest
◼
►
selling holiday device that they've that
◼
►
they've ever launched a you know a
◼
►
holiday time right and i think it could
◼
►
get it it could get silly real fast that
◼
►
all the market share numbers consider
◼
►
the tablet to be at its own category not
◼
►
the pc right right i can I realized the
◼
►
ipad is not a pc as we know it but i
◼
►
think that it just shows that it's silly
◼
►
in today's day 22 count pc sales as a
◼
►
market you hurt you if you know don't
◼
►
worry about whether it's a pcr just in
◼
►
big in the category and say computing
◼
►
devices mobile computing you know
◼
►
yeah i totally agree this is the all
◼
►
that matters is how people are using
◼
►
computers on a daily basis and you know
◼
►
the ipad / tablets are coming with a
◼
►
vengeance now the next seven numbers are
◼
►
going to be huge the kindle fire was big
◼
►
for a bit and then it dropped off but
◼
►
you know all indications are that Amazon
◼
►
is getting ready to release another one
◼
►
arm the other two things you know to
◼
►
talk about is that so we got the nexus 7
◼
►
and you've got the kindle fire now the
◼
►
reports yesterday are that Amazon is
◼
►
going to have a another device coming
◼
►
out a refreshed a kindle fire but they
◼
►
also have a 10 inch version and so
◼
►
that's a you know that's going straight
◼
►
on with the with the current ipad and
◼
►
the other line of thinking is that
◼
►
google called the nexus 7 x-7 because
◼
►
they're going to have another sighs
◼
►
device to to come out with down the road
◼
►
to write DX is 10 or something right and
◼
►
nexus 10 so what do you think about them
◼
►
going directly after the ipad i mean
◼
►
obviously no one made any inroads and
◼
►
all this time these two year two plus
◼
►
going after the ipad do you think that's
◼
►
like a good way to get a foothold in the
◼
►
door like with the nexus 7 doing well
◼
►
then the nexus 10 does better as a
◼
►
result of the nexus 7 doing well yeah i
◼
►
think it could especially if it
◼
►
continues to sell i think it's you know
◼
►
I think it's the way to go and I think
◼
►
the argument the argument for multiple
◼
►
tablet sizes is exactly the same as the
◼
►
argument for multiple laptop sizes the
◼
►
different people have are willing to
◼
►
make different trade-offs you know why
◼
►
would somebody carry around a 15-inch
◼
►
four and a half pound macbook pro right
◼
►
when you know when i'm living at the
◼
►
luxurious life with my little love you
◼
►
know stack of paper weighs like macro
◼
►
well because some people are doing like
◼
►
pro audio and video or some people just
◼
►
like to have a big-screen everywhere
◼
►
you know yet i definitely think that I
◼
►
think anybody who has any kind of
◼
►
lasting success in the tablet market is
◼
►
going to have a a some sort of range of
◼
►
sizes and this and the surface is going
◼
►
to be slightly bigger right it's like a
◼
►
10.6 inch screen i think at least the
◼
►
the initial version that that Microsoft
◼
►
will be coming out with I don't think it
◼
►
was quite that much bigger I think it
◼
►
was but it was definitely 10-point
◼
►
something something I was like 10.1
◼
►
maybe it is ok but so it's slightly
◼
►
larger so they're obviously you know not
◼
►
not focusing at least at first on the
◼
►
smaller tablet space and going rights
◼
►
directly after the ipad space right and
◼
►
and i think it gets back to your point
◼
►
about people who are using tablets his
◼
►
laptop replacement I mean that's clearly
◼
►
examining explicitly what the surface is
◼
►
aimed at right as we've seen with the
◼
►
with the keyboard itself the keyboard
◼
►
cover which you know I was pretty I
◼
►
ripped apart uh pretty quickly just
◼
►
because i think i think it's a silly
◼
►
thing to do it where it's a built into
◼
►
the device itself and i know it's in
◼
►
it's an add-on I don't know are they
◼
►
giving it to have they announced that
◼
►
they're going to give it with the the
◼
►
surface or if you have to buy it as a
◼
►
separate add-on of the night I guess I
◼
►
it must be a separate item because
◼
►
there's two different ones
◼
►
that's right ok you're right so that's
◼
►
good ok because like I can rip apart is
◼
►
like it just kinda you know moves the
◼
►
mentality from like we're breaking new
◼
►
ground in computing and we're moving on
◼
►
from this pc world to instead we're
◼
►
keeping the same you know the same ideas
◼
►
of the pc world we're just kind of
◼
►
making it look different
◼
►
and there was a great uh that great
◼
►
image of a laptop versus a surface where
◼
►
you know the laptop has the-the-the
◼
►
thick bottom and the thin screen versus
◼
►
the surface with the thick screen and
◼
►
the thin bottom for the the keyboard and
◼
►
so that's what I kind of had a problem
◼
►
with but i will say since I just a few
◼
►
days ago I I happen to be an apple store
◼
►
and I were a randomly decided to pick up
◼
►
one of those logitech keyboard case
◼
►
things for the ipad right that that
◼
►
thing is great it's amazing i can type
◼
►
just as well on that as I can on my
◼
►
computer and I I i fully plan to the
◼
►
next trip i'm taking taking a trip trip
◼
►
in a few weeks just for a few days not
◼
►
bring a laptop at all just gonna bring
◼
►
the ipad which I probably would have
◼
►
done anyway but now I don't have to
◼
►
worry about a thing i mean i can send
◼
►
any email and and type at full speed and
◼
►
I recognize too that you know some
◼
►
people are great at typing on the ipad
◼
►
already with the with the the software
◼
►
keyboard but you know for whatever
◼
►
reason I was brought up in the world
◼
►
where you learn how to type on a
◼
►
keyboard and I'm significantly faster
◼
►
doing it that way and so you know people
◼
►
like me are are are going to be feel a
◼
►
little bit more comfortable for the time
◼
►
being at least using that keyboard and
◼
►
so I'm a big fan of this logitech thing
◼
►
and so the Microsoft Surface the cover
◼
►
is starting to make quite a bit more
◼
►
right but I don't think though it's
◼
►
exclusive to them i mean III just think
◼
►
that the number of you know when and if
◼
►
it turns out to be a good idea i mean
◼
►
Apple just put a key boarded in the next
◼
►
yeah yeah I you know and have it be like
◼
►
Bluetooth or something like that right
◼
►
there is something clever about the way
◼
►
that they're drawing power over their
◼
►
yeah right because this logitech one
◼
►
that I have has a is battery-powered
◼
►
around and you have to recharge it up
◼
►
and it is Bluetooth and it works with
◼
►
the magnets though it does
◼
►
oddly enough you know they say it works
◼
►
fine with the 4gs because the art sorry
◼
►
bill with it with the new iPad because
◼
►
the new ipad is slightly thicker than
◼
►
the the previous ipad i've attached to
◼
►
both there's that you can definitely
◼
►
tell that it's definitely more tuned for
◼
►
the the last generation ipad 2 rather
◼
►
because it's the magnet slightly slip a
◼
►
little bit it's kind of weird thing but
◼
►
yes so the the powering thing for the
◼
►
surface keyboard is definitely an
◼
►
interesting opponent and they also have
◼
►
as much as a keyboard Dave Dave touch
◼
►
elements to right where you can you have
◼
►
like all a trackpad like thing right now
◼
►
so you can use your mouse cursor that's
◼
►
ridiculous pic microsoft I don't know
◼
►
it's gonna be interesting with the rest
◼
►
of the year is going to be fascinating
◼
►
yeah i'd also someone before we get off
◼
►
the subject i saw that the stories about
◼
►
the the new kindle fires that are at
◼
►
apparently imminent that there's five or
◼
►
six sk use yeah i saw III my sense of
◼
►
that is that they'll have two different
◼
►
sizes so i had actually you know like a
◼
►
year it was a little over a year ago
◼
►
ugly enough on a prototype of the kindle
◼
►
fire before it was even named or
◼
►
anything like that right i remember that
◼
►
i remember in and it was my last my last
◼
►
great scoop i was still at TechCrunch
◼
►
and so I you know I talk to someone who
◼
►
is telling me basically the entire you
◼
►
product pipeline and everything and they
◼
►
already had in the lab at that point a
◼
►
10 inch version there were there were
◼
►
issues they were having with it and that
◼
►
they were going to delay it and I think
◼
►
they also just wanted to see how the
◼
►
kindle fire itself as the 7 inch version
◼
►
would sell and so the plan was to
◼
►
release it in q1 or q2 of this year
◼
►
which obviously came in wins and they
◼
►
didn't do it i think that they saw the
◼
►
kindle fire had some issues it wasn't
◼
►
getting great reviews and who knows they
◼
►
may have had component problems as well
◼
►
but so the tenant has always been in the
◼
►
I think with these multiple sku that
◼
►
they're talking about now I think the
◼
►
plan is still to do a seven inch and a
◼
►
10 inch and they would just have
◼
►
different varieties of them like they
◼
►
would have one with more memory in it is
◼
►
my sense of what they're going to do
◼
►
with that right because the other thing
◼
►
I thought mean I'm people with my I saw
◼
►
a lot of speculation that meant that
◼
►
they're going to come out in a whole
◼
►
bunch of different size right but I
◼
►
don't like I would expect two sizes
◼
►
maybe even only maybe still even only
◼
►
yeah cuz you gotta remember like the
◼
►
ipad 2 had 18 different sk use because
◼
►
it had yeah all the different carriers
◼
►
black-and-white three sizes
◼
►
verizon compatible AT&T compatible and
◼
►
and the ipad 3 still has a I think 12
◼
►
yeah it's you don't have to get a
◼
►
different I don't know but there's a
◼
►
good counting excuse doesn't doesn't
◼
►
imply counting different sizes
◼
►
it would be easy to have six different
◼
►
sk use and just have to be you know
◼
►
yeah right and you know dark that I
◼
►
doubt amazon which still very much
◼
►
trying to figure out this market comes
◼
►
out with us a 5 inches 6 inches set
◼
►
right it seems a little bit of overkill
◼
►
yeah well let me I was going to take a
◼
►
second break here and thank our second
◼
►
sponsor and I am super super excited
◼
►
about having this this coming just
◼
►
because I like having different types of
◼
►
companies sponsor the show second
◼
►
sponsors tonks coffee tea onx and they
◼
►
sent me some coffee always first started
◼
►
talking about their sponsorship and i
◼
►
love it is absolutely great you pay them
◼
►
for a subscription and it's just no
◼
►
hassle you subscribe to tonks and every
◼
►
you just get fresh coffee in the mail
◼
►
and they find coffee from top producers
◼
►
all over the world literally
◼
►
I they sent me stuff that sample pack
◼
►
they sent me and stuff from Kenya and
◼
►
another one thing from anyone from
◼
►
Brazil and it was delicious and they're
◼
►
they've got a free trial right now so
◼
►
you can just sign up and get a sample
◼
►
and taste what all the fuss is about
◼
►
I love everything about i like the name
◼
►
honks I just like saying ln x i love
◼
►
their branding they have a they have
◼
►
sort of a brand it reminds me of the the
◼
►
credits from dr. Strangelove this sort
◼
►
of big tall like handwritten letter
◼
►
style I even like they're copywriting
◼
►
it's it is unpretentious yes you're
◼
►
you're buying fancy top quality coffee
◼
►
having us into the world but there is
◼
►
the the language they used to describe
◼
►
it i just love the copywriting it's very
◼
►
very down-to-earth very very
◼
►
and the coffee itself is just terrific
◼
►
take it from my pal Marco Arment Marco
◼
►
Arment whose far more fussy about coffee
◼
►
here's a quote from Marco Arment i have
◼
►
a great Universal answer when it
◼
►
a great Universal answer when it
◼
►
for anyone asks me how to make great
◼
►
coffee get a burger grinder get an
◼
►
aeropress and subscribe to talks i
◼
►
couldn't recommend them more highly it's
◼
►
really really great stuff go to tonks
◼
►
dot-org tion x.org and find out more
◼
►
tonks coffee famously I'm telling you
◼
►
right now if you want to be a success on
◼
►
the internet you need you need three
◼
►
things you need fussy way to make coffee
◼
►
and talks is it just buying your beans
◼
►
from Thomas along qualifies as fuzzy you
◼
►
need a sodastream so you can / carbonate
◼
►
your own water and really it there is no
◼
►
step three you can coffee more uh OMG i
◼
►
do i almost called you Marco
◼
►
that would have been better been cool
◼
►
flattered i never make my own now oddly
◼
►
enough I don't know why I just never got
◼
►
into that I feel like I've just never
◼
►
had a good coffee maker and that's why I
◼
►
don't do it i should get into that
◼
►
because that you know God knows how much
◼
►
money I waste at coffee shops on a daily
◼
►
I'm also a little weird though because I
◼
►
don't really like hot coffee
◼
►
I only like iced coffee and so you know
◼
►
there's a little bit more of a process
◼
►
in involved in doing that I mean you can
◼
►
make it a night and put it in the fridge
◼
►
and stuff like that which does seem more
◼
►
but it does it takes planning and i
◼
►
don't know i don't have yeah i actually
◼
►
just I actually on that the talks
◼
►
website they had a a a blog post about
◼
►
I really have to check that out that
◼
►
could be interesting to but the big
◼
►
problem for me is that it it's still you
◼
►
can't just do it and have coffee 10
◼
►
minutes later right mix work and not you
◼
►
know for me it's it's way too i need the
◼
►
instant gratification
◼
►
yeah like all the sudden I need coffee
◼
►
and and and i need a really really quick
◼
►
it's awesome that you're getting coffee
◼
►
sponsorships on the show you you're
◼
►
moving up in the world here
◼
►
good i can I do that I have to hear
◼
►
about that right i mean i love have
◼
►
sponsorships from apps i mean if you've
◼
►
got a nap and you want to promote it get
◼
►
attention and i would love you know
◼
►
you're always it's obviously going to be
◼
►
a huge source of sponsorship on a show
◼
►
that you know that I'm hosting but yeah
◼
►
I love the idea of of everything from
◼
►
coffee suppliers to that you know the
◼
►
the studio need guys with the little
◼
►
cliff and the stylus and stuff like that
◼
►
sponsoring the show to ya scrape so
◼
►
mountain line so my online
◼
►
yes it's coming out we can talk about
◼
►
this under under embargo which is
◼
►
certainly don't think I've ever tried to
◼
►
do this I haven't bothered about
◼
►
something done before it's legal but it
◼
►
will be legal tomorrow to write it would
◼
►
be you would be not eating well would it
◼
►
would be against the embargo for us to
◼
►
release this recording now and it would
◼
►
be it'll be okay to record it in advance
◼
►
and release it when it's not
◼
►
yes says many people do and what you
◼
►
know and not mine itself is sort of
◼
►
interesting because while it shocked the
◼
►
world it really did like no one had any
◼
►
idea that it was coming it was a big
◼
►
surprises first legitimate surprised
◼
►
that no one had any inkling of that i
◼
►
can remember in a long time when they
◼
►
did it earlier this year and but now
◼
►
it's been out in Developer Preview for a
◼
►
while and because of all those uh
◼
►
there's many sites out there
◼
►
whoo-hoo-hoo get these these great tip
◼
►
these great anonymous developer tipsters
◼
►
who are willing to break their their
◼
►
NDA's to you know leak this information
◼
►
you know it sounds suspiciously like
◼
►
some of these hipsters are actual
◼
►
writers for some of these sites who are
◼
►
breaking their own NDA's but we cannot
◼
►
we cannot be sure of this but so
◼
►
regardless of how it happens there's
◼
►
just a lot of the infos already out
◼
►
there so it's kind of it's always
◼
►
fascinating to write a review after most
◼
►
everyone knows who really cares about it
◼
►
knows what what's coming you know right
◼
►
and I think feature wise i mean Apple
◼
►
has done the run through twice now I
◼
►
mean you did it in February not publicly
◼
►
mean that they you know they they
◼
►
unveiled the website and listed the top
◼
►
features and then they did the like a
◼
►
whole third of the WWDC keynote was
◼
►
and yah and as always i think that they
◼
►
do a very good job of highlighting the
◼
►
features that are the most universally
◼
►
applicable right so just in terms of a
◼
►
rundown and features i don't really have
◼
►
yeah i mean so i've been using it i've
◼
►
been using the Developer Preview since
◼
►
that initial developer preview and have
◼
►
kinda you know I've had it I had it
◼
►
first on just one machine and now I'm
◼
►
actually running it on my on my main
◼
►
imac and I'm running it on the retina
◼
►
macbook pro that I have as well as a
◼
►
macbook air and so it's you know I found
◼
►
it to be by far stable enough at this
◼
►
point obviously the gold master is out
◼
►
and it will be out tomorrow in its full
◼
►
form and it's great i mean on my is
◼
►
sample specifically you know are there
◼
►
any performance things you're talking
◼
►
about because you know normally when a
◼
►
new always comes out that's what people
◼
►
talk about you know is their performance
◼
►
gain or anything even with snow leopards
◼
►
from leopard they talked about how it's
◼
►
it's been kind of tailored and whittled
◼
►
down to just it's it's essentials and
◼
►
they made it much smaller but there
◼
►
really is nothing like that i guess that
◼
►
there the day at least want to say with
◼
►
mountain lion though i have seen at
◼
►
least on my three-year-old iMac which is
◼
►
nearing the end of its life in that its
◼
►
nearing the end of how much I'm willing
◼
►
to put up with compared to how slow it
◼
►
is compared to my other computers
◼
►
it does seem to make it faster I don't
◼
►
know what the reason for that is but it
◼
►
definitely starts up faster i noticed
◼
►
because I i've been using it non-stop
◼
►
since the initial developer preview in
◼
►
February on my 11-inch macbook air
◼
►
ah yep and i have noticed especially the
◼
►
last few bills especially since WWDC i
◼
►
have noticed that waking from sleep is a
◼
►
yes yeah I've noticed that as well and I
◼
►
asked them I i did ask Apple about that
◼
►
because I didn't see them mention that
◼
►
anywhere but i wanted to make sure that
◼
►
i hadn't liked placebo affected my self
◼
►
and convince you know I mean like
◼
►
convince myself that it was no I think
◼
►
some sleep faster and then the truth is
◼
►
no we didn't touch that but they said no
◼
►
they actually put a huge amount of
◼
►
effort was actually well really big
◼
►
engineering thing to to improve wake
◼
►
from sleep times everything related to
◼
►
yep well and they're doing one of the
◼
►
new big features is that power nap thing
◼
►
which i haven't actually tried yet so
◼
►
it's a weird thing too because it only
◼
►
works it doesn't work for example on on
◼
►
my old imac it only works on uh i
◼
►
believe the newer macbook airs and the
◼
►
the retina macbook pro right I don't
◼
►
even think it works on my macbook eric
◼
►
is my macbook air is two years old yeah
◼
►
I don't think it does either
◼
►
I think it's only the newest versions
◼
►
yeah starting well I I don't even I
◼
►
don't think it's just the newest
◼
►
versions that just came out and at WWDC
◼
►
I think you're right it the one before
◼
►
yeah the one where the 11-inch air got
◼
►
the light up keyboard
◼
►
yeah that's right yeah yep i have the
◼
►
note is about that it's mid-2011 macbook
◼
►
air yet numeric retina macbook pros and
◼
►
none of the imax so right yeah
◼
►
yep right but that's why i was unsure
◼
►
whether i was seeing things by thinking
◼
►
that Maya doesn't qualify for power nap
◼
►
macbook air seems to be waking from
◼
►
sleep even snappier like even getting
◼
►
ever ever closer to the ideal of the iOS
◼
►
instant wake from sleep
◼
►
yep yep that's interesting
◼
►
one of one of the features that I've
◼
►
actually use quite a bit and has been
◼
►
extremely helpful has been the airplane
◼
►
mirroring uh of the the mac itself to an
◼
►
this came up the other day we are trying
◼
►
to watch wimbledon and my girlfriend I'd
◼
►
actually don't have cable and so we were
◼
►
unable to watch it in a traditional
◼
►
sense but it was streaming on espn3 i
◼
►
believe and previously and it wasn't on
◼
►
the the watch ESPN app on the iPad or or
◼
►
iphone so you can do it that way but I
◼
►
could watch it on a browser and just
◼
►
stream my entire computer right right to
◼
►
the apple TV and that was awesome
◼
►
well I the other thing I've been doing a
◼
►
big picture wise is that I i think it's
◼
►
been a total success for Apple to get
◼
►
away from these monolithic extravaganza
◼
►
and OS updates and sort of focus on ones
◼
►
that are maybe not as exciting but your
◼
►
over a year are adding features and I
◼
►
feel like by by by shooting for smaller
◼
►
less extravaganza updates
◼
►
ah it'sit's just it just seems like it's
◼
►
a win for everybody i think it's easier
◼
►
on their engineering I think it's easier
◼
►
to hit the ship dates and I think it's a
◼
►
lot less eye for users who are updating
◼
►
to each new version as they come along
◼
►
there's a lot fewer chances for them to
◼
►
to feel like wow this is too much all
◼
►
yeah right there's no there's basically
◼
►
no learning curve from mountain from
◼
►
Lyon to mount line there's new
◼
►
notification center which is awesome
◼
►
it's probably my favorite feature of it
◼
►
but you know even that feels natural
◼
►
especially if you've used iOS devices
◼
►
before you know they've done a good job
◼
►
I think making the making it's very very
◼
►
easy transition and it's great the fact
◼
►
that you can upload update from Snow
◼
►
Leopard right to mountain lion as well
◼
►
so if you happen to skip line for
◼
►
whatever reason now you can pay $19
◼
►
instead of was it before was a 29 for
◼
►
lion when I can ya so now you can pay
◼
►
even less and get upgraded to the newer
◼
►
version i do think like what you're
◼
►
talking about you know kind of the focus
◼
►
on the smaller updates and everything I
◼
►
totally agree with that but i think you
◼
►
know there's a potential for some small
◼
►
backlash just because of the fact that
◼
►
Windows 8 is coming out this fall and
◼
►
you know they'll say you know that you
◼
►
know you'll see stories that a Windows 8
◼
►
is a major upgrade whereas you know
◼
►
Apple has only been you know kind of
◼
►
tinkering small with small little things
◼
►
you know Microsoft has been really
◼
►
focusing on going after their core
◼
►
audience and and improving things for
◼
►
yeah i'll know there's you know the the
◼
►
i could probably right
◼
►
hey Zeus Diaz piece for getting that
◼
►
right here you know that up now but it
◼
►
is to me it is a super just super sharp
◼
►
contrast with Microsoft and Apple in
◼
►
multiple ways we're on the one front
◼
►
windows 8 is a radical interface change
◼
►
yep I mean it's easily i mean really no
◼
►
hyperbole involved the biggest interface
◼
►
change from one version to the next in
◼
►
yep uh and you know mountain lion is
◼
►
absolutely the opposite of that I think
◼
►
you know most users if you set them down
◼
►
in front of line or mountain lion would
◼
►
have to poke around a bit before they
◼
►
figure out which is which
◼
►
my stay at a glance easiest way is
◼
►
probably just look for notification
◼
►
center up in the upper right-hand corner
◼
►
Notification Center and the slightly
◼
►
white tray for the that the absent on
◼
►
male oh yeah for the dog that glass doc
◼
►
is that is slightly more
◼
►
ah so you know it is a refinement I mean
◼
►
there's definitely I think it's a good
◼
►
question what do you get for your $19 or
◼
►
your 20 bucks huh yeah i think there's
◼
►
definitely there but it certainly is a
◼
►
lot less than than windows 8 and on the
◼
►
other side it's also in sharp contrast
◼
►
to microsoft microsoft has gone with
◼
►
this I what your mg so i'll go with that
◼
►
I'll go with the Lord of the Rings
◼
►
analogy this 10 s22 rules all right I 10
◼
►
s that is meant for everything from
◼
►
phones to desktop computers and apple is
◼
►
very clearly in adamantly sticking to
◼
►
this we've got shared technologies like
◼
►
iCloud and you know the names of these
◼
►
apps and and there's certainly some
◼
►
similarities that they're you know the
◼
►
whole back to the mac thing but it is
◼
►
two different os's one geared for touch
◼
►
devices and one geared for keyboard and
◼
►
yes I also but I feel like I totally
◼
►
agree with that again but i think you
◼
►
know with things like notes and were and
◼
►
reminders now you know those are
◼
►
straight-up ports to a new screen size
◼
►
basically right arm and in a new way of
◼
►
interaction with mouse but it does feel
◼
►
like you know if they do two more
◼
►
iterations let's save OS 10 or you know
◼
►
if they sit k-state always tended OS 11
◼
►
who knows but if they do two more
◼
►
iterations of OS 10 I feel like we're
◼
►
going to get a lot of of kinda overlap
◼
►
between the two of us
◼
►
and it just becomes that the mac is now
◼
►
like the you know the kind of the
◼
►
version of all your apps that you're
◼
►
used to that that are just being used on
◼
►
a bigger device that doesn't sell as
◼
►
well as an iOS device that remark yeah
◼
►
and that that's a that's interesting
◼
►
thing I think you know at first
◼
►
uh I you know I think a lot of people
◼
►
are skeptical is bringing some of these
◼
►
iOS ideas and applications to the mac
◼
►
environment but now it's starting to
◼
►
make a lot of sense to people i think
◼
►
and that kind of leads into what i think
◼
►
will be the most by far controversial
◼
►
feature of a mountain lion which is the
◼
►
gatekeeper stuff because I've already
◼
►
run into a couple issues where I've
◼
►
tried to download a application over the
◼
►
web and I just had the default setting
◼
►
on when i install the mountain lion and
◼
►
so I could do it I had to go into my
◼
►
settings and switch it so that because
◼
►
no one right now Apple isn't a certified
◼
►
developers just yet for gatekeeper and
◼
►
so none of them are under that thing
◼
►
presumably most of the big ones will i
◼
►
know they told me that adobe is already
◼
►
is already on board for that so that's
◼
►
it that's a huge one for them but for
◼
►
everyone else you know you will be
◼
►
blocked from downloading uh inner
◼
►
internet applications without removing
◼
►
that thing at first without removing the
◼
►
the default settings you can still do it
◼
►
you know don't freak anyone out here of
◼
►
course you can still do you can download
◼
►
whatever you want but by default you
◼
►
will have to change that setting
◼
►
yeah i guess that probably will be the
◼
►
most controversial change because you
◼
►
know it sounds perfect on paper but in
◼
►
practice yes it is it is sort of it
◼
►
feels like you're being told to just
◼
►
told to just stick to the appstore yeah
◼
►
and how will how parents do you know
◼
►
like will even know where to go you know
◼
►
they'd guide you pretty well how to do
◼
►
it but it's it's not as seamless as you
◼
►
might think you know i can imagine for
◼
►
someone who's not really clear on how to
◼
►
guide you know make their way through
◼
►
the settings of OS 10 right and i
◼
►
wondered too with it in the first couple
◼
►
of months i think that there's going to
◼
►
be a lot more reasons for people to to
◼
►
revert that to change that setting too
◼
►
the more liberal ok allow apps to run
◼
►
from anywhere even if they're not signed
◼
►
right all right because there's going to
◼
►
be so many apps that haven't been
◼
►
yes and once people make that change
◼
►
that's the sort of thing you've sort of
◼
►
set it and forget it and you're not
◼
►
going to go back and you're not going to
◼
►
get the advantages of gatekeeper like
◼
►
yeah i think it's going to take a year
◼
►
or two and and people getting wait till
◼
►
you get your next Mac and then you leave
◼
►
that setting on you know like I feel
◼
►
like a year from now it'll be a lot
◼
►
easier to to live with gatekeeper
◼
►
blocking anything that's at least not
◼
►
signed than it is now like I had to turn
◼
►
it off there was no way to you I just I
◼
►
couldn't last that long
◼
►
using only the built-in apps right i
◼
►
think in that way it's sort of similar
◼
►
to the popup blockers built into
◼
►
browsers you know when they first came
◼
►
out it's like you had to keep turning it
◼
►
off because there were so many sites
◼
►
that needed a pop up for whatever reason
◼
►
to login or something like that but over
◼
►
time it end up being a very good thing
◼
►
because it just basically killed the
◼
►
pop-up market that's actually a perfect
◼
►
i think that's a really good analogy i
◼
►
did a lot like that yeah yeah so that's
◼
►
so that's a great feature but it will be
◼
►
controversial to begin with another
◼
►
thing is so you just talked to apple
◼
►
right you didn't did they send you a
◼
►
build a specific build of of mountain
◼
►
lion that's a did they send you the one
◼
►
that's through the mac app store now
◼
►
ok so there's there's this weird thing
◼
►
going on where they have facebook
◼
►
integration write like this is coming
◼
►
and they've already announced that it's
◼
►
coming around but it's not coming till
◼
►
the fall right and it's nothing it's not
◼
►
really clear why that is because so they
◼
►
gave me a demo you know a a retina uh
◼
►
macbook pro with the new version of
◼
►
mountain lion on it but I noticed they
◼
►
also give me a code to download version
◼
►
for another computer so i could test it
◼
►
on all my machines on the ones i
◼
►
downloaded it does not have the facebook
◼
►
integration but on the one they gave me
◼
►
it does and they told me specifically
◼
►
that it would be a little bit different
◼
►
because it has the facebook integration
◼
►
I don't know what the holdup is like
◼
►
because it's ready to go it might only
◼
►
it is ready to go i think it's i think
◼
►
that I i I'm I'm / I don't know
◼
►
this for a fact my impression is that
◼
►
it's made its dull beta quality and it's
◼
►
it's there's bugs in it better that it's
◼
►
not set yet you have to get it the other
◼
►
way you can get it is if you have an ADC
◼
►
account it's a separate download from
◼
►
the GM yeah so if you go to that the mac
◼
►
developer page and you login with your
◼
►
ADC credentials there's a download
◼
►
download the GM build of mountain line a
◼
►
few a few links down there's download
◼
►
the facebook development package uh ok
◼
►
you're right then okay that makes sense
◼
►
because i was wondering if it was like
◼
►
maybe they signed a deal with facebook
◼
►
where they couldn't technically included
◼
►
until they include facebook within iOS
◼
►
officially you know as a package deal or
◼
►
something and so since that won't be out
◼
►
till the fall with ios6 maybe they
◼
►
couldn't do this integration with
◼
►
mountain line but that makes more sense
◼
►
especially well it works on the front
◼
►
end for users because it's in the
◼
►
Notification Center for example we could
◼
►
set a facebook facebook status message
◼
►
right from there just like you can with
◼
►
the tweet button now it makes more sense
◼
►
that developers might be is having some
◼
►
you know bugs are issues that they have
◼
►
to kind of work through right i think
◼
►
the other room very interesting and it
◼
►
it's obviously something that's
◼
►
something everybody's gonna notice it's
◼
►
not a detail is the iCloud document
◼
►
yes and yeah I I i think that it's it
◼
►
i'm really happy with the way that
◼
►
Apple's done this and clearly the way
◼
►
that mountain lion wants you to use
◼
►
these apps is to store your stuff in
◼
►
iCloud like that's that is what Apple
◼
►
wants you to do apple things that's the
◼
►
future of storage and sinking and stuff
◼
►
like that right and it's a huge
◼
►
difference from the way the mac has
◼
►
always work the way the mac was created
◼
►
was with this idea that the file system
◼
►
is your foundation that's the better you
◼
►
start you start by looking at the your
◼
►
desktop and on your desktop our volumes
◼
►
and you go into these volumes and you
◼
►
know where things are you know where the
◼
►
document is it's in this folder here you
◼
►
start with the finder
◼
►
yep and then you open the document and
◼
►
the new way the wood the iCloud way
◼
►
is just like iOS where the documents are
◼
►
conceptually in the app yeah when you
◼
►
want to open a text edit document you
◼
►
don't go to the finder you go to text
◼
►
edit and it in text at it
◼
►
yep to the point where I brought this up
◼
►
with them if you have a PDF that that
◼
►
was created in a certain maps a like
◼
►
adobe acrobat or something like that it
◼
►
will show up in there but you would have
◼
►
to it wouldn't show up by default in
◼
►
something like preview you would have to
◼
►
you could there's a way to do it where
◼
►
you can dig for it you know and find it
◼
►
in the file system but by default it's
◼
►
not there eight lives in whatever app it
◼
►
was created and but what I like about
◼
►
the way apples done this is they made it
◼
►
easy and it's clear that that's the way
◼
►
they want you to do it and I think it's
◼
►
the way that most people who'd sitting
◼
►
down from the mountain line first time
◼
►
they're gonna I think they're going to
◼
►
use it and I think they're gonna really
◼
►
like it but if you don't want to use it
◼
►
if you want to keep storing your stuff
◼
►
the same way you always have you want to
◼
►
use dropbox instead of iCloud or you
◼
►
just want to keep your documents with
◼
►
you know for privacy reasons you don't
◼
►
want him going anywhere to the cloud you
◼
►
only want them on your own hard drive
◼
►
I it's just one tab over in the open
◼
►
dialog box and it is the traditional
◼
►
here's you know store wherever you want
◼
►
interface and if you want to do you know
◼
►
get to them through the finder you can
◼
►
yeah that that will be a little
◼
►
controversial though as well I just
◼
►
because because it is one more click to
◼
►
be able to do it that way and they're
◼
►
trying to change it and I think that's
◼
►
where they have to do it and i think
◼
►
that the benefits of it far outweigh
◼
►
what what the backlash will be because
◼
►
now presuming you have at least one iOS
◼
►
device like this the seamlessness at
◼
►
which will work is awesome i mean you
◼
►
know everyone seemed to demo now where
◼
►
you can edit something on your mac and
◼
►
it will change in almost real time on a
◼
►
I iOS device if you're doing that and in
◼
►
terms of you know getting like a PDF
◼
►
from one app to another you can still
◼
►
use drag-and-drop yes right i mean and
◼
►
so there's you know you think like will
◼
►
can't I just drag it from here to the
◼
►
and you know let it works so I yep
◼
►
yeah i think that they've managed this
◼
►
because there's there's the way they
◼
►
want you to use it they're not pushing
◼
►
you there are enticing you to go there
◼
►
yeah and i think it that the fear people
◼
►
had was that Apple is going to push
◼
►
people to do that and it's you know you
◼
►
can argue that did with some of the
◼
►
policies with all of this stuff put
◼
►
together with gatekeeper and with the
◼
►
sandboxing restrictions in the app store
◼
►
and the fact that only app store apps
◼
►
get iCloud access that you know that
◼
►
there are enticing you heavily enough
◼
►
that maybe it counts as pushing or that
◼
►
they've tilted the floor in that
◼
►
direction but they're not forcing you to
◼
►
do that and I really really truly
◼
►
believe that they're not going to do
◼
►
that that's not you know the next major
◼
►
version of Mac os10 is not going to be
◼
►
app store only right I think gatekeeper
◼
►
is there you know that's their solution
◼
►
long-term to bringing the advantages of
◼
►
two of the app store to all apps right i
◼
►
think that they're doing at the exact
◼
►
right way which is that the they're
◼
►
playing up the advantages the appstore
◼
►
separately from apps themselves meaning
◼
►
that if you want to do the app store
◼
►
like yes you'll have to you'll have to
◼
►
take a hit if you have a paid app but
◼
►
you're also getting access to Game
◼
►
Center you're getting access to the
◼
►
iCloud integration so they're playing up
◼
►
like the advantages doing it but not
◼
►
making you do it necessarily right so
◼
►
that's you know you you lead with a
◼
►
carrot not with the stick in that regard
◼
►
uh the two the two other things i had
◼
►
like I think there's there's a lot of
◼
►
one quick one which kind of date brings
◼
►
back to what we were talking about the
◼
►
very beginning with a with marissa meyer
◼
►
is a it's fascinating that the built-in
◼
►
sharing in in mountain-lion includes
◼
►
includes both vimeo and flickr but it
◼
►
does include youtube even though youtube
◼
►
is like you know one of the standard
◼
►
apps on iOS and and apple is obviously
◼
►
had to deal with google and that for the
◼
►
past and that's the by far the biggest
◼
►
video sharing site they have they have
◼
►
vimeo but no YouTube I'd you know what i
◼
►
noticed that i remember noting that at
◼
►
the keynote I know my notes from the
◼
►
WWDC keynote had that and i forgot to
◼
►
die I hadn't really thought about that
◼
►
sense but I remember thinking like at
◼
►
is that it or is that like they're still
◼
►
in negotiation and it's not in there for
◼
►
sure and yeah and Emilio is so that's
◼
►
pretty fascinating and flickers still
◼
►
flickr you know has been integrated into
◼
►
our things like iphoto for now Apple TV
◼
►
and apple TV right yeah and so it's
◼
►
still there so they're still giving a
◼
►
yahoo and flickered that love which is
◼
►
hopefully they get rejuvenated a bit the
◼
►
other a really big thing i kinda want to
◼
►
talk about was a safari itself so i know
◼
►
right i presume that you're a big safari
◼
►
user i am and i'm not i use chrome x
◼
►
pretty much exclusively except I've made
◼
►
exceptions for when the retina macbook
◼
►
pro came out because chrome was just
◼
►
looked god-awful because i wasn't
◼
►
updated with the retina graphics yet
◼
►
right even the font even a font
◼
►
rendering wasn't yeah was awful it was
◼
►
all wrong it was wrong to and twitter
◼
►
for it's still wrong and twitter for
◼
►
Makka know if they'll ever fix that it
◼
►
was wrong and sparrows wrong a few other
◼
►
things fixing sparrow but so they they
◼
►
have since fixed it sort of in the
◼
►
canary build which is the early build of
◼
►
of chrome but it's still not stable
◼
►
enough so i still use safari when im
◼
►
using the the retina macbook pro but
◼
►
i've been using it with the with the
◼
►
mountain lion release I still I still
◼
►
have a big problem with safari I know
◼
►
that they say you know they gave me the
◼
►
stats that according to sunspider
◼
►
javascript test safari is the fastest
◼
►
browser now compared to i think was
◼
►
chrome 19 or whatever the last version
◼
►
was I still find it to be slower and
◼
►
just the smallest little things that I
◼
►
do including you know one is of course
◼
►
using Gmail which makes some sense that
◼
►
google is able to optimize gmail for for
◼
►
chrome better than they could for safari
◼
►
or you know who knows that's on purpose
◼
►
or if this is just because they have
◼
►
access to that team directly but i still
◼
►
have a problem with using safari as my
◼
►
main browser and the only thing that
◼
►
I've noticed that's pretty buggy in
◼
►
mountain line is Safari itself i'm
◼
►
having rendering issues are you noticing
◼
►
no i'm not i don't know why that is just
◼
►
certain sites seem to I'll get it I'll
◼
►
get the thing where i scroll down and
◼
►
then all of a sudden part of the page
◼
►
like a square of it is white
◼
►
one of those situations i don't know
◼
►
what I could probably switch to chrome
◼
►
pretty easily although I don't really
◼
►
like Chrome on iOS as much i think they
◼
►
did a very nice job and I can see how
◼
►
some people would really like it I mean
◼
►
one of the one day when there was all
◼
►
that talk and I know you had it early
◼
►
that they were working on Chrome for iOS
◼
►
right uh which would have to to comply
◼
►
with the appstore rules use the system's
◼
►
version of WebKit right i remember
◼
►
thinking what's the point then if it's
◼
►
really just a rectangle with WebKit why
◼
►
even bother and I well I thinking
◼
►
thinking is is one of the things that
◼
►
uh which I care about a little bit i I'm
◼
►
used to the omni bar which is which they
◼
►
oddly added to safari in OS 10 rights
◼
►
they have them now where you can either
◼
►
search or type the URL and but they
◼
►
don't have it in even at iOS 6 right
◼
►
that's interesting it I and i'm not
◼
►
quite sure what the logic is there
◼
►
because there's more room for a second
◼
►
bar on the matter yeah my only thought
◼
►
is that it's easier to touch you know a
◼
►
second input than it is to kind of
◼
►
Dragon mouse up somewhere and try maybe
◼
►
but i'm not sure otherwise I just hold
◼
►
that thought for a second we'll get back
◼
►
to that but another little given the
◼
►
knowledge to google changing iOS 6 is
◼
►
that that search field in ios6 no longer
◼
►
no longer says google search search the
◼
►
web for something serious
◼
►
yep yep that's right that's another
◼
►
thing that someone else brought up to me
◼
►
that maybe they do it in iOS because
◼
►
they want people to go to the sites
◼
►
directly rather than using google which
◼
►
has become almost the default for a lot
◼
►
of people to find any site you know but
◼
►
then it still doesn't make sense why
◼
►
they would do it in OS 10 go the other
◼
►
way I i don't know i will say this with
◼
►
when it comes to Chrome vs safari
◼
►
especially on the Mac I I could switch
◼
►
to chrome very easily and the times that
◼
►
I've used it i like I I can't even
◼
►
remember off the top of my head why the
◼
►
last time I tried it as my daily browser
◼
►
yep but it's very close to me and I do
◼
►
think and I think the best thing about
◼
►
does feel faster yeah I just at a
◼
►
technical level there's a big big
◼
►
fundamental difference between chrome
◼
►
and safari which is that chrome breaks
◼
►
off each tab into its own process so you
◼
►
have 20 tabs there's 20 chrome rendering
◼
►
processes and safari has two processes
◼
►
one for the interface and a separate
◼
►
process that just does the rendering now
◼
►
that's a big security when either both
◼
►
both ways give you the security when
◼
►
where the rendering process which might
◼
►
be exploited by bugs in JavaScript or
◼
►
something like that is completely
◼
►
sandboxed and doesn't have access to the
◼
►
file system doesn't have access to all
◼
►
sorts of stuff huge security went right
◼
►
but i do think that at least to date the
◼
►
chrome model of using many rendering
◼
►
processes it especially I think the
◼
►
reason that Safari get slowed down for
◼
►
me is that I'm i'm such a hyperactive
◼
►
reader that I end up with 20 30 tabs
◼
►
I and that to me is when it really i see
◼
►
the difference i don't really see a
◼
►
difference in speed if I have one tab
◼
►
open in each app it's when I have a
◼
►
bunch open and I can't help but think
◼
►
that a technical level it's it's gummed
◼
►
up by only having one monolithic
◼
►
rendering process and so why did why do
◼
►
you think they do that why not just copy
◼
►
I honestly have no idea i mean that's I
◼
►
just you know and I i hesitate to
◼
►
speculate because I'm you know whatever
◼
►
technical guesses I could make are you
◼
►
know laughably ill ill informed compared
◼
►
to you know the guys who are actually on
◼
►
the WebKit team at apple right yeah the
◼
►
they have done some nice things to make
◼
►
it more compelling to use safari with
◼
►
mountain lion in particular the the the
◼
►
iCloud I tabs integration stuff so if
◼
►
you use Safari on iOS which most
◼
►
everyone does except for the few who use
◼
►
chrome you can get transferred back and
◼
►
forth quickly between your tabs that you
◼
►
have open and that's a really nice
◼
►
integration there's also that the reader
◼
►
thing which i don't know how many people
◼
►
it still seems kind of half-baked in my
◼
►
mind but it's nice that they have it for
◼
►
offline now if you want to do that so
◼
►
you can you can take a bunch of articles
◼
►
if you're going to be you know going to
◼
►
an airport or whatever but you could
◼
►
always do that with instapaper one of
◼
►
the other services already and so they
◼
►
do a nice job of of kind of unifying
◼
►
that experience but it's still not quite
◼
►
enough I think to get me using safari on
◼
►
a regular basis just just solely because
◼
►
of the speed thing and I'm for whatever
◼
►
reason it's a silly aesthetic thing but
◼
►
i'm like addicted to having pin tabs
◼
►
where I have like four tabs that I pin
◼
►
which are you know like gmail a twitter
◼
►
and if few others wrote a technique is
◼
►
one of them and because i just always
◼
►
have those open and kind of shoved over
◼
►
the side they're not in my face is
◼
►
something because that you know there's
◼
►
weird spacing issues with with safari
◼
►
tabs i'm sure you've noticed this where
◼
►
it's like certain versions of it and
◼
►
i've been playing with you know it's
◼
►
different nightly build and stuff
◼
►
certain ones like when you open a new
◼
►
tab will open it like the entire half of
◼
►
however bigger window is and that will
◼
►
be the new tab other versions do it as
◼
►
like a fifth of it and they make like
◼
►
these these small little differences and
◼
►
i'm not sure what they're going for
◼
►
their I just like the aesthetic better
◼
►
yeah I don't like the way that with tabs
◼
►
and so far enough you have two tabs in a
◼
►
window they each get half the window
◼
►
yeah right exactly because I a
◼
►
statically just and I realized that the
◼
►
idea there is that if the page title has
◼
►
a long string then you see more you can
◼
►
see the whole thing yeah but st
◼
►
aesthetically it to me it doesn't it
◼
►
yeah I do actually like I'd like it
◼
►
don't like the the non showing of
◼
►
favicons which is a lot of sites just
◼
►
have shitty ones and they're kinda ugly
◼
►
and chrome shows those and safari
◼
►
doesn't so it keeps it more pristine and
◼
►
more focused on what the content is but
◼
►
you know what some hands like Google
◼
►
does it and actually kind of cool thing
◼
►
with their fabric on for Gmail which is
◼
►
that they give you a little unread count
◼
►
on it when you know so if there's a if
◼
►
there's to unread emails in there it'll
◼
►
show up in the fabric on his little too
◼
►
yeah I maybe I should give chrome
◼
►
another shot I don't know it it might be
◼
►
time I think one of the reasons i
◼
►
switched the last time as I had a I had
◼
►
a bookmarklet that didn't work
◼
►
for me in chrome and i eventually
◼
►
figured out that it was it was a bug in
◼
►
the bookmarklet like it wasn't the
◼
►
chrome didn't support it was i was so I
◼
►
that is a big problem with chrome for
◼
►
iOS though by the way the bookmarklet
◼
►
right not work at all right that's
◼
►
really that's actually the deal breaker
◼
►
for me I mean you just added from a
◼
►
practical standpoint is is why i don't
◼
►
use it but i understand that most people
◼
►
most people don't use bookmarklets they
◼
►
have no idea what they are and I do see
◼
►
how the way that Chrome's interface for
◼
►
iOS especially on the iphones designed
◼
►
actually puts more emphasis on the
◼
►
yes because i love it doesn't have both
◼
►
the top and bottom bar
◼
►
it just has a top bar yea which was
◼
►
little jarring at first I thought it was
◼
►
but it's actually it's pretty nice
◼
►
the thing I love the most though and god
◼
►
I wish safari for iOS with a would copy
◼
►
this is just to be able to swipe without
◼
►
zooming out you know like rather than
◼
►
hitting the tab button you can just
◼
►
swipe on the left or right and get to
◼
►
yeah that's genius and really is very
◼
►
nice yeah so that's that's my favorite
◼
►
thing and they did uh it kind of similar
◼
►
they did a a new gesture in safari for
◼
►
mountain lion which is that you could
◼
►
pinch to zoom out and it gives you this
◼
►
new tab view type thing that you can
◼
►
switch between the the open tabs and
◼
►
safari which is pretty slick i'm not
◼
►
sure how how how good that is for people
◼
►
who have tons of tabs open because
◼
►
you'll just be flicking through them
◼
►
forever but it's pretty nice little
◼
►
yeah but the funny thing is there it
◼
►
went to and i like it i think it's a
◼
►
great feature but they are the tabs are
◼
►
like any interface where it really
◼
►
doesn't matter there is your tabs i
◼
►
bring them down to a small little sighs
◼
►
yeah when you zoom in there you know
◼
►
they're each one gets it equal share of
◼
►
yeah they only look I guess bottom line
◼
►
is that safaris tabs only look good when
◼
►
you have at least 45 tabs and window
◼
►
yep totally agree yep but other than
◼
►
that I don't really have a lot more to
◼
►
add about me I think it's a great
◼
►
release it has been stable for me I
◼
►
can't help but think that by reducing
◼
►
fine i think they're leaving money thing
◼
►
apples leaving money on the table but i
◼
►
think that they they really they're not
◼
►
really in it for the money i mean i'm
◼
►
sure right multiply the you know 50 50
◼
►
million copies they'll eventually sell
◼
►
by twenty bucks i mean it
◼
►
they're gonna keep the hundred million
◼
►
dollars or 200 million dollars whatever
◼
►
it comes to but uh I mean that's not
◼
►
that much money for apple
◼
►
yeah the you know the when they when
◼
►
they give these pitches about like what
◼
►
mountain lions all about they bleed with
◼
►
the the numbers you know those 66
◼
►
million people or whatever using OS 10
◼
►
numbers tripled i think they said in
◼
►
five years and then they talk they start
◼
►
to go and directly to like how they're
◼
►
they're focused on district distributing
◼
►
it digitally and they even told me this
◼
►
time they're not going to do the USB key
◼
►
thing that they did the last time
◼
►
because you know some people just
◼
►
couldn't comprehend how to do it three
◼
►
of the mac app store right and so but
◼
►
that's I you know that's a smart way to
◼
►
do it and it led to these they said I
◼
►
think forty forty percent of the install
◼
►
base updated to lie in nine months which
◼
►
doesn't sound like a lot compared to iOS
◼
►
but it's huge compared to any other
◼
►
desktop traditional desktop operating
◼
►
system you know they give you though the
◼
►
windows seven number that it took 26
◼
►
months to hit that same milestone and
◼
►
right and i think that you know it it
◼
►
was I think that the old numbers were
◼
►
largely at the fact that that prior to
◼
►
Lyon most people just didn't update
◼
►
their operating system till I got a new
◼
►
computer right here just the mass-market
◼
►
really just buys a computer and will the
◼
►
will install hopefully you know whatever
◼
►
software updates come over the air
◼
►
security updates and stuff like that but
◼
►
they don't when it comes time to do the
◼
►
big update to the new major releases
◼
►
have to pay for they don't do it and now
◼
►
yeah now they are ya just getting forty
◼
►
percent to do it in the night in nine
◼
►
months because that's how long because i
◼
►
really think that's a large part about
◼
►
what the you know windows seven taking
◼
►
twenty six months is I mean when you're
◼
►
talking about twenty six months to hit
◼
►
forty percent you're you're more at that
◼
►
you know two-year period where people
◼
►
get new computers every two or three
◼
►
yes that's totally true that's probably
◼
►
what drives the majority of that number
◼
►
right and i really think you know so
◼
►
with it like you said that the apple
◼
►
says there's now 66 million installed
◼
►
which isn't users it's in its max right
◼
►
and so like my family Mac might have
◼
►
multiple users and you'd its kind of
◼
►
hard to estimate users but yeah yeah you
◼
►
know that the the if every single one of
◼
►
them spent the 20 bucks to update to
◼
►
mountain line it's just not that much
◼
►
money from Apple's perspective clearly
◼
►
this thing is is price low to encourage
◼
►
people to update and it's uh it's
◼
►
fascinating how that influenced
◼
►
microsoft because now Windows 8 is is
◼
►
how much I think it's is a $29 it's
◼
►
something it's something obscenely low
◼
►
compared to what it used to be with you
◼
►
well over a hundred dollars right up and
◼
►
it's so it feels of course like they've
◼
►
been pressured to do that by what Apple
◼
►
is doing the kind of set the bar for
◼
►
what an OSI upgrade should be yeah and
◼
►
they've also simplified it where they
◼
►
don't have anywhere near as many
◼
►
versions of windows to choose from right
◼
►
they just decided to go with that
◼
►
ridiculous RT name still for an apparent
◼
►
but but what's uh what's most
◼
►
interesting about microsoft dropping the
◼
►
price significantly of windows which is
◼
►
great for everyone great for consumers
◼
►
of course and that's going to lead to a
◼
►
lot more people upgrading to it i think
◼
►
but it's also that's that's the core way
◼
►
they make money i mean it's not the core
◼
►
way because of OM still pay for how you
◼
►
know the licensing fee to Microsoft but
◼
►
it's still like a big part of the way
◼
►
Microsoft makes money and they're taking
◼
►
whatever it is a you know a fourth cut
◼
►
right in for your email in theory Apple
◼
►
could give it away free i mean i don't
◼
►
know about the accounting III there
◼
►
still might be some kind of right there
◼
►
would be accounting practices that that
◼
►
you couldn't do that literally but or
◼
►
they could sell it for ridiculously low
◼
►
price in theory they could sell it for
◼
►
you know the dollar 99 or something
◼
►
everything it wouldn't matter to apple
◼
►
financially it wouldn't be there
◼
►
wouldn't really be taking him in the
◼
►
chin because and the whole reason for
◼
►
that is that the only people who can buy
◼
►
it are people who already paid a
◼
►
thousand dollars or more for an apple
◼
►
computer right whereas microsoft needs
◼
►
that right and that's you know core part
◼
►
so yeah i'm at i don't i I don't know if
◼
►
the if the OEM relationship is any
◼
►
different if they're charging the OMS
◼
►
less per license because they're
◼
►
sumers left i assume not because that
◼
►
would be a significant hit on their
◼
►
business if they did that same cut for
◼
►
the for the OEM vendors that they work
◼
►
with i mean you're talking windows
◼
►
revenues cutting by a fourth or well and
◼
►
I think that the difference is that
◼
►
they're pretty much pitching it as its
◼
►
upgrade pricing only yeah that's true i
◼
►
mean and I that is a question i don't
◼
►
actually think I remember somebody asked
◼
►
and I don't think we have the answer yet
◼
►
is let's say you buy a bare-bones pc
◼
►
that doesn't even ship with a version of
◼
►
windows on it just a you know blank
◼
►
motherboard and hard drive you'll be
◼
►
able to take the $29 retail windows 8
◼
►
thing and install windows on it or do
◼
►
you have to start with some version of
◼
►
windows you know that's always been a
◼
►
tricky question i remember back in like
◼
►
the nineties like what you know thinking
◼
►
about that and I i want to say that at
◼
►
least one version maybe was windows at
◼
►
me or something like that allowed you to
◼
►
install the operating system even though
◼
►
it was the upgrade version and it wasn't
◼
►
like touted or anything but there was a
◼
►
way to do it or there might have been a
◼
►
small little hack that you could you
◼
►
know get some file on your computer that
◼
►
made it think that you had you know
◼
►
windows XP or something and then you
◼
►
could uh windows 98 I mean and then you
◼
►
could install windows and me on top of
◼
►
that there was something like that but
◼
►
as far as i know you you can't do that
◼
►
or you should be able to do that because
◼
►
I'd be stupid than you know from from
◼
►
Microsoft perspective they want you to
◼
►
of course by the the full version with
◼
►
your right is the version that they
◼
►
would sell the OEM is not some the only
◼
►
ones are doing upgrades for users so
◼
►
yeah anyway the bottom line i just don't
◼
►
think mountain lions all that shape it's
◼
►
not it is absolutely not are shaking in
◼
►
the way that Windows 8 is and i think it
◼
►
is I think it's a good thing for for Mac
◼
►
yeah that just makes that makes
◼
►
reviewing it interesting I mean you know
◼
►
basin were both writing reviews today
◼
►
and yeah but I don't know exactly how to
◼
►
add a frame and I think you know your
◼
►
framing it is correct and I don't like
◼
►
to do you know I don't know how you you
◼
►
come up coming do you do your
◼
►
traditional review stuff i know that you
◼
►
do it typically different than like say
◼
►
you know the Verger and gadget does it
◼
►
like especially with hardware but
◼
►
it and I i try to do that too just
◼
►
because i don't i don't like to go into
◼
►
details about all the little uh all the
◼
►
specs and everything because it just
◼
►
matters less and less over time it seems
◼
►
like but within with an OS upgrade like
◼
►
this it's a tricky thing to approach
◼
►
from a review perspective because it's
◼
►
so similar to what lion is you know that
◼
►
besides these core features
◼
►
yeah that's the problem I'm having with
◼
►
my reviews I edge style i like it i
◼
►
think everybody who certainly everybody
◼
►
like listens to the show and we'd during
◼
►
fireball I think it's everybody's gonna
◼
►
I think it's going to be a very popular
◼
►
update and I think it's worth twenty
◼
►
bucks but every every it's hard to write
◼
►
the review though in a way that doesn't
◼
►
come across as saying I don't know if
◼
►
that you know there's not that much new
◼
►
right right so you almost have to do it
◼
►
as taking a step back and looking at the
◼
►
broader perspective right which are
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yeah but anyway speaking of which we
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should probably get to work on that
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mg Siegler thank you very much for being
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here really appreciate it of course
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thanks for having me again let me just
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quick thank also our sponsors studio
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you're nuts if you don't sign up